
<hansard version="2.2" noNamespaceSchemaLocation="../../hansard.xsd">
  <session.header>
    <date>2018-02-15</date>
    <parliament.no>45</parliament.no>
    <session.no>1</session.no>
    <period.no>0</period.no>
    <chamber>Senate</chamber>
    <page.no>0</page.no>
    <proof>1</proof>
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            <span style="font-weight:bold;"></span>
            <a href="Chamber" type="">Thursday, 15 February 2018</a>
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            <span style="font-weight:bold;">The PRESIDENT (Senator the Hon. </span>
            <span style="font-weight:bold;">Scott Ryan)</span> took the chair at 09:30, read prayers and made an acknowledgement of country.</span>
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          <span class="HPS-Line"> </span>
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    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>1</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Tabling</title>
          <page.no>1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>1</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Environment and Communications Legislation Committee</title>
          <page.no>1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Meeting</title>
            <page.no>1</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:31</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I remind senators that the question may be put on any proposal at the request of any senator.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>PARLIAMENTARY REPRESENTATION</title>
        <page.no>1</page.no>
        <type>PARLIAMENTARY REPRESENTATION</type>
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          <title>New South Wales</title>
          <page.no>1</page.no>
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            <title>Senators Sworn</title>
            <page.no>1</page.no>
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    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BILLS</title>
        <page.no>1</page.no>
        <type>BILLS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Treasury Laws Amendment (Banking Measures No. 1) Bill 2017</title>
          <page.no>1</page.no>
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            <a href="r5990" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Treasury Laws Amendment (Banking Measures No. 1) Bill 2017</span>
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            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>1</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:37</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'NEILL</name>
    <name.id>140651</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to continue my remarks on the Treasury Laws Amendment (Banking Measures No. 1) Bill. When I was concluding my remarks previously I was speaking about the legislative undertakings of the Labor government and the FOFA reforms which were undertaken under the leadership of Mr Shorten, who, I understand, joined us in the chamber here to recognise the ascendancy to the Senate of Senator Keneally, who is a great New South Wales woman that I'm glad to have with me, and I'm sure she will be interested in supporting adequate banking protection for ordinary people as well.</para>
<para>Returning to my comments around ASIC, we know that, according to the latest numbers from ASIC, there were 300,000 customer accounts affected by concerns regarding financial services, with amounts of fees improperly charged for underservicing but still sending out the bills of over $200 million excluding interest. ASIC has stated that FOFA requirements that were vehemently opposed by those opposite—namely, the requirement customers periodically opt in to the advice relationship and the requirement that advisers provide annual fee disclosure statements to all clients, including existing clients—helped to bring to light this massive fees-for-no-service scandal.</para>
<para>In government those opposite made massive cuts to ASIC and massive cuts to the capability of the corporate regulator and have given a massive free pass to corporate misconduct. They only moved to restore funding to ASIC when Labor began calling for a royal commission. Those opposite have a record of giving free passes to the financial sector, thereby enhancing the misconduct at every turn. That record continued with their stubborn refusal to initiate a banking royal commission.</para>
<para>Labor will support this bill, as I've indicated a number of times during my contribution to this debate. We are particularly pleased that this government has finally, after years of delay, introduced changes to credit cards, recommended by a Labor-led Senate inquiry back in 2015. We welcome other measures in this bill, including giving the right to use the word 'bank' to smaller ADIs, including credit unions and building societies. For Australians whose literacy around finance helps them understand what a bank is, I think that this will be a significant change and improvement in their access to services, particularly in some of the regional communities across Australia.</para>
<para>However, we note that this bill comes from a government that's really not fair dinkum about consumer protection in the financial services sector. It has come, begrudgingly, from a government that will stand up for the big end of town over ordinary Australians, every day. It has to be, and has been in this case, dragged kicking and screaming to do otherwise, whether it is in relation to something as simple as overdue charges to credit card regulations or something as significant as a much needed royal commission into the banks.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:40</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WHISH-WILSON</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise today to speak on the Treasury Laws Amendment (Banking Measures No. 1) Bill 2017 on behalf of the Australian Greens. The bill amends the Banking Act 1959 to enable the Australian Prudential Regulation Authority, known as APRA, to make rules and directions relating to the provision of finance by non-authorised deposit-taking-institution lenders, which, as APRA has identified, may materially contribute to risks of instability in the Australian financial system. The bill removes restrictions on the use of the term 'bank' and inserts an objects provision. It also amends the National Consumer Credit Protection Act 2009 to require that the suitability of a credit card contract is assessed on the consumer's ability to pay the credit limit within a certain period and prohibits providers from making unsolicited credit limit offers in relation to credit card contracts and from retrospectively charging interest on credit card balances. Finally, it enables consumers to reduce credit card limits and terminate credit card contracts including by online means. The Greens will be supporting this bill. We don't see anything too controversial in it.</para>
<para>I note APRA's comments that were provided to the committee that the non-ADI, non-licensed, non-regulated finance market—I call it the shadow banking sector—is roughly only four to five per cent of the total market at this point in time, and is not enough to cause instability. But this is an issue that's been discussed all around the world, especially in the last five years, by regulators in just about every country and international institutions. The growth in the unregulated shadow banking sector is something that we do need to keep a close eye on. We're quite comfortable with giving APRA extra powers to monitor that sector, collect data and act, should they feel that there's any instability in the financial system brought on by the growth in the shadow banking sector.</para>
<para>On the credit card changes, I echo Labor's comments that we'll be reviewing these changes over time to see how the banking sectors themselves respond to this. You don't get between them and a buck, basically, so I'm sure they'll find a way to continue to squeeze Australians through the credit card market, but, nevertheless, the bill's provisions are good.</para>
<para>In fact, I actually wrote to the regulator and spoke to them in estimates last year after being contacted by a friend who had had unsolicited attempts to increase his credit card limit from his bank. He was told how easy it would be if he just pressed a button on an email, which led to a doubling of his credit card limit. These kinds of things can be dangerous and they need to be monitored. The Greens will be supporting this bill today.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:43</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator KETTER</name>
    <name.id>244247</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak on the Treasury Laws Amendment (Banking Measures No. 1) Bill 2017. Labor supports this bill, which does a number of useful things. It provides further reform across the banking and financial sector. Of course, further reform is absolutely critical for the culture within this sector, and I note, before I talk in more detail about the bill, that it was for 601 days that Labor called for a royal commission into the financial sector, which we did because we recognised that there was a need for something substantial to be done to reform this sector to meet community expectations. That has now kicked off this week, and for anybody who might be looking at a copy of this speech, public submissions are now open online at www.financialservices.royalcommission.gov.au. It is very important that members of the public participate in this, particularly those who have a story to tell about how they've been treated by our big banks.</para>
<para>Before I proceed, let's review some of the facts about the Australian banking industry. Some of this information comes from the background paper that was prepared by the royal commission. We know that there are 147 ADIs operating in Australia, and that those ADIs hold $4.6 trillion in assets. Three-quarters of that figure is held by the big banks. I'm just underscoring the importance of this sector for the Australian economy. The big banks earned a profit margin of 36.4 per cent in the June quarter 2017. The big banks' net profit after tax in the June quarter was $7.8 billion. Other domestic banks earned a profit margin of 24.7 per cent, and total net profit after tax in the June quarter was $831 million. The financial and insurance services sector is the largest contributor to real industry gross value added in Australia—around nine per cent in the September quarter 2017. The mining and manufacturing industry is six per cent, for comparison's sake. All of this information, as I say, comes from the background paper prepared for the royal commission.</para>
<para>Publicly available data broadly indicates that the big banks in Australia may be more profitable than some international counterparts—for example, those in Canada and the UK. As at November 2017, there were over 16 million credit and charge card accounts, with total balances of $52.2 billion. So, this is an industry that warrants a lot of scrutiny and there is a need for continual oversight of this industry.</para>
<para>This bill expands APRA's regulatory powers to include reserve powers that cover non-ADI lending, should practices or the size of the non-ADI lending sector pose a risk to financial stability in the future. There's no suggestion that there is a problem at the current time with the size of the non-ADI lending sector, but, at some point in the future, this may become an issue and, therefore, APRA should have powers to monitor in this area.</para>
<para>Non-bank lenders do play an important role in Australia. They encourage competition in the market and they are very much involved in lending to small business, which, of course, is an engine room for employment growth. Schedule 3 to the bill allows smaller ADIs—authorised deposit-taking institutions—to use the word 'bank' in their business name. I note that this is one of the changes that was very strongly supported by the Customer Owned Banking Association, and I will talk a little bit about that shortly. The change is designed to reflect public perception regarding the regulations and protections applicable to entities using the term 'bank'. Whereas ADIs are prudentially supervised by APRA, this has been extended and deposits covered by the Financial Claims Scheme are guaranteed. Labor welcomes the fact that small ADIs, including many credit unions, will now have the right to call themselves banks if they choose to. Previously, the term 'bank' could only be applied to institutions that held more than $50 million in tier 1 capital.</para>
<para>I will digress briefly to mention that I am a big fan of the cooperatives and mutuals sector. I indicated that the Customer Owned Banking Association is a supporter of these changes and I do think it is extremely important that the mutuals are placed in a position where they can compete with the major banks. Their business model is one which, in my view, promotes more ethical treatment of customers. It's a situation where profits go back to members rather than return to shareholders, and we avoid the situation of the imperative for massive returns to shareholders, which drives the gouging and mistreatment of customers. I think the cooperatives and mutuals sector has a lot to offer the market and a lot to offer consumers. It's just interesting to note that, when it comes to cooperatives and mutuals, a lot of people are not aware of the prevalence of those.</para>
<para>For my own part, I'm a member of ME Bank, which is a mutual bank, I'm a member of Australian Unity Health Insurance and I'm also a member of the RACQ. These are very well known institutions. A lot of people don't know that they are actually mutuals, that they are customer owned and that they perform a very important role providing diversity and providing competition to the big banks.</para>
<para>I also want to give a plug, while I'm here, to the need for work to be done to enhance the mutuals sector, particularly in the banking area. I want to revisit some of the recommendations that were made by the Senate Economics References Committee on this issue, and I do welcome the fact that the government has picked up a number of the recommendations from that committee. Again, it's so important to the health of the financial services sector that we have this sort of healthy competition. Among the recommendations we looked at in the cooperatives and mutuals inquiry was for the Commonwealth to work with states and territories to develop a program of supports to encourage the establishment of new cooperatives and mutual enterprises. We recommended that a mutual enterprise be explicitly defined in the Corporations Act and its associated regulations. We also recommended that the cooperative and mutual sector be considered when the government is preparing a regulatory impact statement that accompanies new regulatory policies. We also recommended that the Commonwealth government liaise with state and territory counterparts to ensure that the regulatory burden for small and medium-sized cooperative and mutual enterprises aligns with the needs of these organisations to ensure they're not disadvantaged relative to companies of a similar size, because we know, and we've heard from a number of inquiries, that the regulatory burden is, in fact, a competitive advantage to some of the bigger corporations. We also talked about the Commonwealth and state governments supporting the formalisation of some of the innovative and market based approaches to raising capital for small and medium-sized cooperatives and mutual enterprises in the form of advice and information as they become available.</para>
<para>Importantly, we wanted APRA to set a target date for the outcome of discussions with the cooperative and mutual sector on issues of capital-raising and to bring those discussions to a timely conclusion. We also recommended, very importantly, that the Commonwealth examine proposals to amend the Corporations Act to provide cooperative and mutual enterprises with a mechanism to enable them access to a broader range of capital-raising and investment opportunities. This is a necessary vital reform. Unfortunately, we see a situation where a lot of cooperatives and mutuals, where they currently want to expand, see the only option going forward to de-mutualise. That's unfortunate. It sees a loss to the cooperative and mutual sector and is, I think, to the disadvantage and to the detriment of consumers, and I would certainly welcome movement in that area.</para>
<para>While I'm talking about this, I also wanted to just commend the work that the RACQ has done in merging with the QT Mutual Bank in 2016 and then, in September of last year, launching RACQ Bank, which is going to be an important player. RACQ is a very trusted organisation. As I've said, it's a cooperative owned by its members, and there are more than 1.6 million members. This now establishes one of Queensland's last remaining mutual banks. As I said earlier, the profits from the bank will be reinvested back into the RACQ ecosystem for the benefit of the RACQ members. That's a positive story. This, I think, underlines the fact we need to do more to support the cooperatives and mutuals sector. Its ability to call itself a bank followed from that merger in 2016 with QT Mutual Bank.</para>
<para>Turning to other aspects of the bill, schedule 5 of the bill amends the credit act to introduce a number of reforms to improve consumer outcomes under credit card contracts by tightening responsible lending obligations and prohibiting credit card providers from offering unsolicited credit limit increases—part of the reckless and irresponsible behaviour that we've seen in the past. It also simplifies the calculation of interest charges and requires credit card contracts to allow consumers to reduce credit limits and terminate credit card contracts, including the ability to do it online.</para>
<para>As at November 2017, there were 16.7 million credit and charge card accounts in Australia, with total balances, as I said earlier, of $52.2 billion. While credit card debt comprises a small percentage of the banks' overall assets, it can have a significant impact on household finances. These days, most consumers have some form of credit or store credit card, and many of these cards have hidden fees or charges. We have seen balance transfer schemes becoming more prevalent in the industry. Consumers do deserve the best protection we can give them from fee-gouging and shoddy bank practices.</para>
<para>Labor do, in fact, welcome the reforms that we are debating today. In fact, we actually came up with them first. I go back to the 2015 committee report findings of the Senate Economics References Committee, of which I am the chair. We released a report into the Australian credit card market. That report came up with a table of recommendations—I won't go through all of those quite significant recommendations. I note that the government did indicate its support for a large number of those, and it responded, promising reform, in May of 2016. But, as with many other things, it dragged its feet and has, for the last almost two years, been running a protection racket for the big banks.</para>
<para>In the meantime, the Khoury review of the Code of Banking Practice, for the Australian Bankers' Association, recommended that banks voluntarily make changes to credit card practices for a fairer system for consumers. But the banks refused the recommendations to stop unsolicited credit card increase offers and to stop the tricky credit card interest charging practices, and they also refused to clearly commit to simple, online cancellation of credit cards. I think these are very telling responses from the Bankers' Association which show that they have been unwilling to grasp the nettle and go about the job of reforming their own practices. Because of the Prime Minister's inaction and the banks' reluctance, consumers will have to wait until 2019 for these long-overdue protections to take effect.</para>
<para>We're seeing a recurring theme here from the financial sector and the Turnbull government: review something, vaguely promise action and then hope that the issue goes away. Labor refuses to let these issues go away. That's why, after 601 days, the Prime Minister has been dragged, kicking and screaming, by Labor into having the royal commission.</para>
<para>Labor fought for this inquiry because banks were ripping off consumers with credit cards through hidden charging, high interest rates, high annual fees, expensive rewards programs, exorbitant late payment fees and inappropriate lending practices. Customers were being taken for a ride here, while the banks made—and are still making—millions in credit card profits. While the government has dilly-dallied on these laws to protect consumers with credit cards, OECD data shows that Australia is in the top five countries for personal debt. I refer to an article that has appeared in the <inline font-style="italic">Gladstone Observer </inline>to that effect. This particular article, by Tim McIntyre of the <inline font-style="italic">Gladstone Observer</inline> on 12 February, showed this concerning statistic. The article had a comment from Wealth Within chief analyst Dale Gillham, who said that the debt levels were a concern. He went on to say:</para>
<quote><para class="block">We are stuck on a debt treadmill and many of us don't know how to get off … Identify you have a problem with debt, cut back on non-essential spending … and funnel the cash freed up into paying down your bad debt.</para></quote>
<para>As a society, we do have an issue with this. Let's hope that some of these improvements in credit card changes will assist.</para>
<para>In terms of Labor's record, we introduced the National Consumer Credit Protection Act 2009, which was the first single-standard and nationally consistent regime for consumer credit regulation and oversight in the country. We gave ASIC regulatory powers to oversee consumer credit, including home loans and credit cards. I want to give a shout out to Wayne Swan, who did fantastic work on credit card reform as Treasurer. These measures that he introduced began in July 2012. I won't go through the details of those, but I just want to take a minute to wish Wayne all the best for the next phase of his life. We all remember that he was voted world's best Treasurer in 2011. He's made an enormous contribution to our country, and I'm sure that he will be missed in this place.</para>
<para>So just further in terms of Labor's achievements, we looked into the Future of Financial Advice reforms, or FoFA, which came about in the wake of the Storm Financial, Trio Capital and Westpoint collapses. We had a Parliamentary Joint Committee on Corporations and Financial Services inquiry in 2011-12. Reforms included financial advice providers legally being required to act in the best interests of their clients, eliminating kickbacks to financial advisors. Unfortunately, these were fought by the coalition. They voted against FoFA in the House, they voted against FoFA in the Senate and they tried to undermine its function when they came to government. But thanks to Labor taking up the fight on the finance front, FoFA lived on. As a result, ASIC uncovered in 2016 that customers were paying fees for financial advice that was never provided. There were more than 300,000 customers affected by this. In conclusion, this change cannot come soon enough, though the royal commission will deliver the real change in practice and culture.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:04</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BILYK</name>
    <name.id>HZB</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak on the Treasury Laws Amendment (Banking Measures No. 1) Bill 2017. Australians are people who believe in treating others fairly. The fair go is a hallmark of the Australian way of life. In turn, they expect fairness from those around them. They expect fairness from their mates, from the government and from the other institutions in society, such as the banking and financial sector; however, it's quite clear to most Australians that banks, the financial sector and credit card companies have not upheld their end of this fairness bargain. All of us have heard horror stories, and may even know victims of the financial sector—in fact, my own parents lost $150,000 some years ago.</para>
<para>There are dodgy financial products, hidden fees and charges and just plain rip-offs. We can clearly see from the overwhelming community support for Labor's call for a banking royal commission—which the government ignored for two years and then belatedly and begrudgingly supported once they had given their mates in the sector the opportunity to write the convenient terms of reference—that the community wants things to change.</para>
<para>I hope that the focus of the royal commission will turn to the victims of banking and financial scandals. This is an opportunity for those who have suffered because of insurance scams, dodgy lending and fee rip-offs to tell their stories and present their evidence to the royal commission. I hope that the royal commission delivers justice to families and small businesses that have suffered because of misconduct in the banking and financial services sector. We already know—and the royal commission will show us—that change is needed.</para>
<para>The bill before us today makes some important and significant changes—changes which will significantly help credit card consumers, in particular, and changes that Labor has been calling for for years. We really have to ask ourselves why it has taken this government so long. It's not that the issue only affects a small number of people: there were 16,690,289 credit cards in Australia as of November 2017. Almost every adult in Australia has a credit card, and many people have more than one. Why has the government taken so long to act? Is it to allow their mates in the sector to keep on rolling in record profits to squirrel away to tax havens, like Mr Turnbull's in the Cayman Islands? In 2015, a Labor-led Senate inquiry first stirred changes to credit card regulation. It was in response to the recommendations of the inquiry that the Treasurer promised to progress these changes to credit card regulation. Even with the passage of this bill, we won't see most of those protections come into place until 2019.</para>
<para>Let me tell you a bit about the bill. The bill makes three key changes. It will allow smaller authorised deposit-taking institutions, or ADIs, to use the word 'bank' in their business name, and the bill will give the Australian Prudential Regulation Authority, APRA, powers to deal with developments in non-ADI lending that pose a risk to financial stability. It also introduces reforms to improve consumer outcomes under credit card contracts.</para>
<para>As I mentioned, in 2015 the Senate Economics References Committee, which my colleague Senator Ketter referred to earlier, handed down its report <inline font-style="italic">Interest rates and informed choice in the Australian credit card market</inline>. This is quite a comprehensive report, and I urge anyone with any interest in the issue to download it from the committee's website and read it.</para>
<para>The committee handed down 11 recommendations in the report, derived from written submissions and five public hearings held in Sydney, Melbourne and Canberra. In 2016, the government promised legislation in the near future to respond to the recommendations of that inquiry, yet it's taken nearly two years to come to it. Seriously, I would hate to see this government on a go-slow, I really would. While the Treasurer dithered, the banking sector continued to thumb their nose at him. The Australian Bankers' Association refused recommendations from the review of their code of practice that, in the name of fairness to customers, they should voluntarily make changes. The banks refused to stop unsolicited credit card increase offers and tricky credit card interest rate charging practices. They also refused to clearly commit to simple online cancellation of credit cards.</para>
<para>If the government could just spend a little bit of time away from their internal bickering, their scandals, their back-stabbing and their incompetence, the Australian people would really appreciate them focusing their attention on legislating for the interests of the Australian people.</para>
<para>One of the changes to credit cards is the tightening of the responsible lending requirements. Many thousands of desperate people have racked up credit card debt beyond their means to repay. They've spent years trying to pay these debts off, often with interest rates over the 20 per cent mark. This change will require that the suitability of a credit card contract is assessed on the consumer's ability to repay the credit limit within a certain period. That period is to be set in a legislative instrument made by ASIC. We'll be watching closely to see what that period is.</para>
<para>It's obviously important that Australians are properly protected from predatory or unsuitable lending. Another of the changes is the standardisation of the way credit card interest is calculated. I was taught how to calculate interest in my high school maths classes; however, the well-respected website Choice has said that the way the banks calculate credit card interest is 'mind bending'. When respected governance adviser Phil Khoury conducted a review of the code of conduct of banking practice, he investigated the ways that banks were applying credit card interest. He looked at some practices and found that few customers would be aware that they were even happening at all. Khoury describes the interest calculation practices as 'unacceptable' and 'substantially unfair' and indicates that, if understood, they would be seen as 'just plain tricky'. This is pretty troubling criticism from a very respected reviewer. Under this bill, credit card providers are prohibited from imposing interest charges retrospectively to a credit card balance or part of that balance that has the benefit of an interest-free period. Again, we welcome these changes to the way credit card interest is calculated—but, again, they're long overdue, and we've been calling for them for many years.</para>
<para>Many Australians have come to realise that some of the credit products that they hold aren't suitable or aren't good value for money and they want to cancel them, but, currently, people can't do that online, where most Australians now do their banking. Under this bill, banks will now be required to allow online cancellation of credit cards. This makes eminent sense. You can get a credit card online quite easily, but, if you try and cancel a credit card online, it's very difficult—and it shouldn't be that way. If a customer sees a card that's a better deal, they should be able to move over to that better deal with great ease. Additionally, customers end up hanging onto old cards that they do not intend to keep, with access to more credit than they otherwise need, and these cards often have annual fees and other ongoing costs which add up over the years to a substantial amount of money. So it does make simple sense to require banks and card issuers to have simple online cancellation of credit cards. Under the bill before us today, a bank may not be required to cancel a credit card where there is still an outstanding balance. Again, we need to ensure that this element of the bill is monitored to make sure that the impact of encouraging customers to switch credit cards is real and to ensure that it enables customers to more easily ditch unsuitable cards.</para>
<para>Labor notes that this bill will also require banks to allow a reduction of credit card limits online. As those listening would all be aware, you can very easily increase your credit limit online, often in minutes, so it should be just as easy to reduce your credit limit online. If a consumer has the insight or the awareness that they have too much credit available to them and that they might not easily be able to pay that off and they want to do the right thing and take some control, they should find it easy, not hard, to reduce their credit card limit. I believe we should be supporting consumers that want to take proactive actions to limit their liabilities and we should make it easy for them to do that. The Consumer Action Law Centre has drawn attention to the fact that, as the bill is currently drafted, banks are not required to reduce credit limits below the minimum credit of the card. Labor will continue to monitor that closely and, if further improvements are needed, we will make those suggestions in due course.</para>
<para>Schedules 1 and 2 of the bill will give APRA powers in relation to non-ADI lenders. These powers, which have been described as reserve powers, are designed to be used should the activities of these lenders pose a risk to financial stability in the future. The bill also gives APRA power to collect certain data from these lenders. ADI lenders such as banks and credit unions are subject to APRA's prudential requirements and ongoing supervision. These new powers for APRA are proposed in recognition of the fact that APRA has responsibilities in relation to stability of the Australian financial system which are consistent with its core mandate of protecting depositors. Labor notes that some non-bank lenders have raised concern about the scope of these powers. We recognise that non-ADI lenders can play an important role in ensuring competition against banks; indeed, this is an increasing element of our financial system. There is disruption with these new providers, peer-to-peer lenders and others. This includes disruption in relation to business lending. As an example, innovative non-banking lenders can play an important role in providing finance needed to small-business owners to expand. And, as mentioned briefly earlier, schedule 3 will allow smaller ADIs to use the word 'bank' in their business names should they choose to.</para>
<para>As the explanatory memorandum points out:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… the changes will align community expectations in respect of the use of the term 'bank' with the fact that ADIs are prudentially supervised by APRA and deposits are covered by the FCS guarantee—</para></quote>
<para>the Financial Claims Scheme guarantee. Under this change all ADIs can use the word 'bank' in their business name unless APRA, for whatever reason, has issued a determination to the contrary. Currently, APRA permits only ADIs with tier-1 capital exceeding $50 million to use the terms 'bank', 'banker' and 'banking'. There are a number of small ADIs who would benefit from the use of these terms, and I note that the Customer Owned Banking Association, which represents credit unions and building societies as well as mutual banks, has been particularly supportive of this change. Again, Labor supports this change.</para>
<para>Finally, schedule 4 to the bill modernises the Banking Act by inserting an objects provision. Similar industry acts, the Life Insurance Act 1995 and the Insurance Act 1973 contain objects provisions which guide the reader on the main purposes of the act. The main objects of the Banking Act will be (a) to protect the interests of depositors in ADIs in ways that are consistent with the continued development of a viable, competitive and innovative banking industry and (b) to promote financial system stability in Australia.</para>
<para>While the changes in this bill are welcome, they are long overdue. This government does not care about the consumer, and it only acts belatedly when it has no other choice—when it has to be dragged in, kicking and screaming. In contrast, Labor made significant reforms when we were in government. These landmark reforms included the National Consumer Credit Protection Act 2009. This was the first single standard and nationally consistent regime for consumer credit regulation and oversight in this country. This act gave oversight to consumer credit, including home loans and credit cards, to a national regulator, that being ASIC. It included what are proving to be very important responsible lending obligations. Labor also enacted the Future of Financial Advice, FOFA, reforms. Those opposite want to write these reforms out of history because their persistent opposition to FOFA now looks so embarrassing. They voted against FOFA in the House, they voted against FOFA in the Senate and, when they got into government, they tried to gut FOFA, first by legislation and then by regulation. Labor had to fight tooth and nail to protect FOFA, and it was lucky that we prevailed.</para>
<para>To take one example, ASIC's <inline font-style="italic">Fees for no service</inline> report revealed, in October 2016, that the big four banks and AMP had spent years taking fees from customers for financial advice services that were never provided. ASIC found that there were great systems in place to record incoming revenue but very little in place to prove that customers were getting anything in return. The number of customers affected is over 300,000. The amount of fees improperly charged is over $200 million. ASIC has stated that the FOFA requirements that were vehemently fought against by those opposite—namely, the requirement that customers periodically opt in to the advice relationship and the requirement that advisers provide annual fee disclosure statements to all of their clients, including existing clients—helped to bring to light this massive fees-for-no-service scandal.</para>
<para>In government, those opposite made massive cuts to ASIC, made massive cuts to the capability of the corporate regulator and gave a massive free pass to corporate misconduct. They only moved to restore funding to ASIC when Labor began calling for a royal commission. Those opposite have a record of giving free passes to financial sector misconduct at every turn, and that continued until recently with their stubborn refusal to initiate a banking royal commission.</para>
<para>Labor have identified other areas where we could see a greater stability in our economy—and I'd like to thank my colleague the shadow Treasurer, Chris Bowen, who has been working to highlight areas of our economy where there are unacceptable risks. I'd also like to concur with Senator Ketter's words about Mr Swan and to thank him for his work as well.</para>
<para>One such area where there is unacceptable risk is that of household debt, particularly in regard to household debt related to housing in Australia. Over the recent decade, we've seen astronomical price increases in the cost of housing, particularly in the Sydney and Melbourne markets and, interestingly enough, in the Hobart market, which is growing at a staggering rate. Australia's level of debt is now 100 per cent higher than the total earnings of all households. Australia has the most generous property tax concessions in the world when it comes to investing in housing. I'm speaking here, of course, of our negative-gearing regime—the ability to deduct interest payments on an investment loan for an investment property—and the capital gains tax discount: the 50 per cent discount on capital gains tax being paid on the sale of an investment property.</para>
<para>When these two reforms were introduced by the Howard government, importantly, in the budgetary context, they weren't funded. In other words, there was no revenue source that offset the reduction in revenue that came about from the additional expenditure associated with these tax concessions. Now that we've got a growing budget deficit—it's almost tripled under this government—we're seeing the folly of those decisions being borne by this generation of Australians, because there was no funding source put in place to introduce those very generous tax concessions into the budgetary process. Therefore, it's hardly surprising that we have one of the highest household leverage rates in the world.</para>
<para>For almost two years the Labor Party has been calling on the government to bring attention to the risks associated with such high household debt. The Reserve Bank, the International Monetary Fund, the Grattan Institute and the government's Financial System Inquiry have argued forcefully that tax concessions such as negative gearing distort economic decision-making and encourage leverage in the economy. The overwhelming evidence is that those who benefit from those tax concessions are the wealthiest Australians. It was confirmed in the newspapers fairly recently that the top 10 per cent of income earners in this country benefit from 80 per cent of the capital gains tax discount—that is, 80 per cent of the capital gains tax discount benefits go to the top 10 per cent of income earners in Australia.</para>
<para>We would welcome the government's making such additional reforms if they could be bothered to concentrate long enough on the task of government. While we welcome the bill before us and the consumer protections it entails, the government need to be reprimanded for their tardiness and their unwillingness to act until now. They really do need to sharpen their pencils, as a dear friend of mine would say. This legislation could have been enacted two years ago. That would have been an additional two years of protections for consumers across Australia. But I do call upon my fellow senators to support the bill. As I said, it's a start, but it's not enough. The government needs to pay more attention to the role of governing and sort out their squabbling and their bickering and their scandals so that the people of Australia can have some faith in this government.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:22</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CASH</name>
    <name.id>I0M</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to sum up the debate on the Treasury Laws Amendment (Banking Measures No. 1) Bill 2017, and I thank all senators for their contribution to the debate. The bill enhances the stability, competitiveness and fairness of the financial system.</para>
<para>Schedule 1 to the bill provides the Australian Prudential Regulation Authority, which is known as APRA, a new power to make rules concerning the lending activities of non-bank lenders. This new power is a reserve power, which means that in ordinary times it will not be used. Schedule 2 reinforces APRA's ability to monitor the sector by strengthening APRA's existing data collection powers. Together, these reforms mean APRA will be able to make rules where it assesses that the lending activities of non-ADI lenders are materially contributing to risks of instability in the Australian financial system. While non-ADI lenders are currently a small share of the financial sector, APRA's macroprudential measures for ADI mean it is likely that the sector will grow and, potentially, contribute to risks. Risks to financial stability can be very costly. Risks, if realised, will ultimately fall on the broader Australian community. However, the government is of the view that non-ADI lenders are not currently materially contributing to financial stability risks, and therefore the government does not expect a rule to be made on day 1. Schedules 1 and 2 to the bill will add to APRA's tools on the shelf by expanding the powers APRA can use if and when risks to financial stability emerge in the non-ADI lending sector.</para>
<para>Schedule 3 of the bill removes the prohibition on the term 'bank' and allows all banking businesses with an ADI licence to benefit from this term. Currently, only ADIs with at least $50 million in capital are permitted to use the term 'bank'. This is a real problem for the innovative new banking entrants who want to enter the market. Customers need to understand the product you are offering before they come on board, and these entities need to onboard customers to grow. This is a real catch 22 for new bank entrants. They can't call themselves a bank before they hit $50 million in capital but they can't grow without being able to call themselves a bank. The limit on the use of the term 'bank' to entities over $50 million also creates a false perception in the community that the level of protection afforded to depositors in large APRA regulated institutions is greater than that of small regulated institutions. This is simply not the case. All depositors can take comfort in the fact that APRA regulates all ADIs and all depositors are protected under the Financial Claims Scheme, the government's deposit guarantee scheme.</para>
<para>In implementing this measure, the government has three objectives. It opens the door to innovative new entrants, it levels the playing field for existing ADIs and it meets the community expectation that the only entities that can use the term 'bank' are APRA regulated entities. In order to achieve the third objective, this measure alters the framework for the administrative review of decisions made by APRA concerning the use of the term 'bank'. Non-banks will no longer be able to challenge a decision by APRA to deny the use of the term 'bank' other than on the grounds of procedural fairness. This has the added benefit of reducing an administrative burden on APRA.</para>
<para>Schedule 4 of the bill seeks to modernise the Banking Act by inserting an objects provision, clarifying APRA's mandate under this act. This provides an opportunity for government to reinforce APRA's mandate to protect depositors and financial stability, whilst also promoting innovation. A reference is also incorporated to make it clear that APRA can take account of geographic and sectoral considerations where appropriate.</para>
<para>In addition, schedule 5 will prohibit credit card providers from making unsolicited credit limit increase invitations to consumers through any form of communication. This prohibition will cover all consumers, even if they have previously opted in to receive these invitations. Schedule 5 will also simplify how credit card interest can be calculated by prohibiting credit card providers from backdating interest charges or charging interest on a balance that has already been repaid. This reform will bring credit card interest in line with community expectation and reduce the complexity of the calculation of credit card interest. Finally, schedule 5 will require credit card providers to have online options for consumers to lower a credit limit or request to cancel a credit card. Consumers can face substantial barriers to cancelling a credit card or lowering a credit limit, which reduces competition and impedes the ability of consumers to manage their credit card debts. Schedule 5 will require credit card providers to facilitate a request and will prohibit providers from imposing unnecessary requirements on consumers.</para>
<para>These reforms will provide vital protections to vulnerable Australians and improve competition in the credit card market. I commend the bill to the Senate.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a second time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Third Reading</title>
            <page.no>9</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:28</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0V</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>As no amendments to the bill have been circulated, I shall call the minister to move the third reading unless any senator requires that the bill be considered in the Committee of the Whole.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:28</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CASH</name>
    <name.id>I0M</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill be now read a third time.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a third time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Therapeutic Goods Amendment (2017 Measures No. 1) Bill 2017, Therapeutic Goods (Charges) Amendment Bill 2017</title>
          <page.no>9</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
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            <p>
              <a href="r5977" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Therapeutic Goods Amendment (2017 Measures No. 1) Bill 2017</span>
                </p>
              </a>
            </p>
            <a href="r5978" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Therapeutic Goods (Charges) Amendment Bill 2017</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>9</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:32</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKENZIE</name>
    <name.id>207825</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I commend the bills to the Senate.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bills read a second time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>In Committee</title>
            <page.no>9</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:34</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKENZIE</name>
    <name.id>207825</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I'd like to table a supplementary explanatory memorandum relating to the government amendment to be moved to the Therapeutic Goods Amendment (2017 Measures No. 1) Bill 2017.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:34</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LEYONHJELM</name>
    <name.id>111206</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I move amendments (1) and (2) on sheet 8358:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Clause 2, page 2 (at the end of the table), add:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">10. Schedule 10 The day after this Act receives the Royal Assent.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) Page 195 (after line 3), at the end of the Bill, insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> Schedule 10—E-cigarettes <inline font-style="italic">Therapeutic Goods Act 1989</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">1 After section 52E Insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">52EAAA Certain tobacco products to be treated in the same way</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) The Secretary must ensure that the current Poisons Standard applies in relation to:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) nicotine in electronic nicotine delivery systems in concentrations no greater than 20 mg/mL; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) nicotine in tobacco prepared and packed for heating;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">in the same way as it applies in relation to nicotine in tobacco prepared and packed for smoking.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Example: If nicotine in tobacco prepared and packed for smoking is not included in Schedule 7 of the current Poisons Standard, the Secretary must ensure that Schedule 7 does not include nicotine in electronic nicotine delivery systems in concentrations no greater than 20 mg/mL or nicotine in tobacco prepared and packed for heating.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) For the purposes of subsection (1), an <inline font-style="italic">electronic nicotine delivery system </inline>is a product that can be used for the production and consumption of nicotine-containing vapour, or a component of such a product (including a liquid, cartridge or tank).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) Subsection (1) applies on and after the day that is 12 months after the commencement of this section.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(4) Subsection (1) applies despite anything in section 52E.</para></quote>
<para>These amendments represent a first step towards removing the ban on e-cigarettes. Currently the Commonwealth's Poisons Standard has nicotine classified as schedule 7, which is for dangerous poisons. There are exemptions provided for a handful of products, including products packed and prepared for smoking, such as cigarettes, and nicotine-containing products for quitting smoking, such as gums and patches. The states and territories rely on the Commonwealth Poisons Standard when determining what can and cannot be sold. So, because the Commonwealth Poisons Standard provides an exemption for cigarettes but not e-cigarettes, the states and territories allow the sale of cigarettes but not the sale of e-cigarettes.</para>
<para>This makes no sense at all. There is no evidence that e-cigarettes are remotely as harmful as cigarettes. In fact, a report commissioned by Public Health England concluded that e-cigarettes are 95 per cent less harmful. And there's no evidence that e-cigarettes could lead to more people taking up cigarette smoking compared with the number of people who could use e-cigarettes to quit cigarette smoking. What evidence there is suggests that e-cigarettes would reduce the overall level of cigarette smoking.</para>
<para>What it comes down to is this: Australia bans e-cigarettes because our public health officials have a chip on their shoulder. They're happy for people to use patches and gums instead of cigarettes, but they don't like e-cigarettes, presumably because vaping looks something like smoking and because the tobacco companies, which they hate, will want a piece of the e-cigarette market—and I suspect also because they worry that people might actually enjoy using e-cigarettes. Either our public health officials need to get over their hang-ups or our government needs to stop taking their word as gospel. Comparable countries around the world, including the UK, the EU, the US and soon Canada and New Zealand, have allowed the sale of e-cigarettes. And right now Australians are free to purchase e-cigarettes as long as they import them from a business overseas. They can't buy them in Australia from an Australian business. This is reverse protectionism. It hurts Australian businesses, it misses opportunities to gather tax revenue and it prevents our regulators from regulating the sale of e-cigarettes for the good of consumers. Any notion that we can maintain this virtual prohibition policy once e-cigarettes become available in New Zealand is delusional.</para>
<para>My amendment would change the Commonwealth's Poisons Standard so that e-cigarettes would be classified the same as cigarettes. Whilst cigarettes remain exempted from the schedule 7 dangerous poisons classification, e-cigarettes would be exempted too. My amendments wouldn't commence for 12 months, which would give the Commonwealth an opportunity to make any regulations for e-cigarettes within its area of responsibility and to start discussions with states and territories on the treatment of e-cigarettes in their laws. It's modest, it's a sensible and practical amendment and I commend it to the Senate.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:38</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKENZIE</name>
    <name.id>207825</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator Leyonhjelm. I appreciate your raising UK Public Health's new evidence with respect to the regulation and efficacy of e-cigarettes. And I do suggest that those proponents of e-cigarettes follow the usual process rather than using this amendment. There are problems at law with the amendment itself that I'm happy to go through with you. But I'm sure you are well versed in the government's perspective on that, given that this is an amendment that you seek to include whenever we're discussing TGA matters. But given the recent evidence from the UK, I would encourage proponents of e-cigarettes to bring that forward to the TGA for consideration in an application in the way the TGA is supposed to work. As you stated in your comments, the evidence base on which the TGA and others have made decisions around e-cigarettes has been lacking. Now, if this is new evidence, the proponents of e-cigarettes should go through the usual process and submit an application to the TGA.</para>
<para>As you note—and I know you don't seek any further Commonwealth overreach into state and territory sovereignty—by using this amendment you are, in effect, actually increasing the Commonwealth's getting into matters that are, rightly, the purview of states and territories. So, the government does not support your amendment.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:40</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator POLLEY</name>
    <name.id>e5x</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I too acknowledge the comments from Senator Leyonhjelm, but he would be aware that the rescheduling of nicotine was considered by the TGA and rejected in March 2017. Labor will continue to follow the advice of the independent and expert TGA on this issue. Labor will not be supporting this amendment.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:40</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LEYONHJELM</name>
    <name.id>111206</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The problem with the TGA is it deals with therapeutic claims. There is no therapeutic claim in relation to cigarettes. An alternative to cigarettes, which is required to substantiate therapeutic claims, is an anomaly. Replacing smoking tobacco, for which there is no therapeutic claim, with something which is less harmful and allows people to quit smoking tobacco, in the face of demands for a therapeutic claim, would be very unusual.</para>
<para>There is also a commercial issue involved in this demand that a therapeutic claim be substantiated. I've heard it quite a number of times before. There is no way that a commercial business would invest in a therapeutic claim, which is very expensive to generate, because it couldn't protect its property in that area. The e-cigarettes market, despite the worst fears of the health department, is not dominated by big tobacco. It is actually a very diverse market globally. There are hundreds of companies involved in it. It is a very competitive market, obviously not in Australia but in most parts of the world. You can find vaping shops all over the place. They sell an enormous range of products. You cannot spend many millions of dollars on substantiating a therapeutic claim and then say, 'Having invested that money, I can now capitalise on that by selling my product.' That is not how it works. You have to have a unique position to justify that sort of expenditure. That's never going to happen in this area. We have to take a different approach.</para>
<para>Question negatived.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:43</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DI NATALE</name>
    <name.id>53369</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I move Greens amendments (1) and (3) to (6) on sheet 8353:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Clause 2, page 2 (table item 6), omit the table item, substitute:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">6. Schedule 6, The day 6 months after the day on which the</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Part 2 report of the review provided for in item 51A</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">of Schedule 6 is tabled in the Senate.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) Schedule 6, item 38, page 97 (line 12), omit "may", substitute "must".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(4) Schedule 6, item 38, page 100 (line 5), omit "may", substitute "must".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(5) Schedule 6, item 38, page 100 (line 21), omit "may", substitute "must".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(6)Schedule 6, page 105 (after line 5), after item 51, insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">51A Independent review</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) The Minister must cause an independent review to be conducted into the operation of the</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">amendments made by this Part, including, but not limited to, the effectiveness of the Therapeutic Goods Administration in the handling of complaints about therapeutic goods advertisements directed to the public.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) The review must be conducted as soon as practicable after the end of 3 years after this item commences.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) The persons who conduct the review must give the Minister a written report of the review.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> (4) The Minister must cause a copy of the report to be tabled in each House of the Parliament within 15 sitting days of that House after the report is given to the Minister.</para></quote>
<para>These amendments relate to the pre-approval process, which is an important safeguard for consumers. We think it's critical that it remain. The government, which initially had indicated it was going to abolish the pre-approval process altogether, has decided, after some pressure from the Greens, to amend its own legislation, which was going to be passed as non-controversial legislation. We are pleased there has been a concession. We think it's an important concession, but we think the government needs to go further, and that's why we're moving these amendments.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:44</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKENZIE</name>
    <name.id>207825</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you for your words. The government has listened to concerns raised and has agreed to move our own amendment, with respect to the pre-approval processes, to keep the current conditions in place for two years and then to run an evaluation of the whole new advertising framework in 18 months. I'm looking forward to moving those amendments, hopefully with the Greens' support.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:45</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator POLLEY</name>
    <name.id>e5x</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Labor are satisfied that the amendment we have negotiated with the government addresses our primary concern. We will not be supporting any further amendments, because we want to facilitate a speedy passage of the legislation so that the measures relating to the provisional approval pathway can commence as soon as possible. The negotiations that have taken place and the fact that the government have sought to amend their own legislation are evidence to us that, at this point in time, we will support this legislation, and it should be passed as soon as possible.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:45</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKENZIE</name>
    <name.id>207825</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Just for clarity around that: given that we have been able to reach the middle ground with respect to review and the pre-approval processes, we won't be supporting the Greens amendments at this stage, because it would actually delay any action for at least four more years.</para>
<para>Question negatived.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:46</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DI NATALE</name>
    <name.id>53369</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I move amendment (2) on sheet 8353.</para>
<quote><para class="block">(2) Schedule 2, item 15, page 19 (after line 24), after subsection 26BF(5), insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(6) All indications citing traditional evidence must include the following statement: This traditional indication is not in accordance with modern medical knowledge and there is no scientific evidence that this product is effective.</para></quote>
<para>It is really important to note that the Sansom review suggested a range of changes. They suggested a change that meant that sponsors of products couldn't list the indications for that product as free text—in other words, they couldn't decide what they wanted to say about a particular product; there had to be a list of pre-approved options. We've got some concern that that list seems to be growing, but ultimately we do support the recommendation from the Sansom review which said that there have to be a range of pre-approved indications and that sponsors need to indicate that they're going to choose one of those pre-approved indications rather than simply stating in their own words what they believe a product might do, which on a number of occasions has been found to be misleading.</para>
<para>But the second thing the Sansom review also recommended was that there needed to be a disclaimer put alongside these indications—in other words, basically a statement on all products sold so that, while a particular indication, say for a traditional medicine, has been listed, it's followed up with a statement in the same space, using the same font, which basically says, 'Look, this is what the traditional indication for this medicine is, but it has not been scientifically tested.' That is very important because having an indication like that might give a consumer some confidence that, given that this product has been approved by the TGA, there's been some scientific testing to validate that indication, when in fact that's not the case. So the Sansom review said: 'Get rid of this free text. Don't allow sponsors of products to say what they want about a particular drug. That can be misleading and give the false impression to an individual that a product has a scientific basis behind it, so you're going to have to basically tick a list of pre-approved indications, but you also need to make sure that you make it very clear to the individual purchasing the product that it hasn't been scientifically tested.'</para>
<para>That was what the review recommended, and we support that. That recommendation was also supported by a number of other health bodies and consumer groups—for example, CHOICE, the Consumers Health Forum and the Friends of Science in Medicine. They all raised concerns in their submissions. We're simply saying that, if you're purchasing a product, you should have all the information available. You shouldn't be misled about the particular scientific evidence behind a product, which I think is really important protection for people who spend often a lot of money on this stuff in the belief, sometimes mistaken, that there is a valid, scientifically tested indication for that product. So we'd like to see that statement included, and that's effectively what this amendment does.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:50</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKENZIE</name>
    <name.id>207825</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator Di Natale. Obviously, the government similarly wants to ensure that when Australians are purchasing products they have the required information to make informed choices. We agree with the Sansom review to that extent. We also recognise, again, that we have a $4 billion export industry in this type of product and we walk that line between recognising traditional medicine and ensuring that Australians' safety is not compromised. We have to recognise that all of these products, all the ingredients in these products, have been approved for consumption, so there is not a safety risk per se. But we have to get the balance right and recognise that for some, particularly those using Chinese medicine, the history of practising in that traditional medicine paradigm goes back thousands of years. It's been extensively refined, practised and documented and in many cases incorporated into mainstream medicine. So a statement required by the Australian government that the indication is not in accordance with modern medical knowledge and that there is no scientific evidence will be seen as arrogant and insensitive to those practising and using traditional Chinese medicines.</para>
<para>The government will not be supporting this amendment by the Australian Greens, because the bill itself introduces a new pathway for products to have evidence assessed and be able to have a positive claim on their label. Hence, consumers will be able to differentiate between ones that have had the evidence assessed and those that have not, and at the end of the day it will be up to the consumer. Overseas experience shows that the suggestions of the Australian Greens will actually be ineffective in practice. The evidence from the United States, where the US Food and Drug Administration has mandated such disclaimers, is that these disclaimers are ineffective in assisting consumers to make more informed choices when self-selecting medicines. So those who want to purchase a certain product, irrespective of the disclaimer made, will still choose to purchase such a product. It won't change behaviour.</para>
<para>Many stakeholders did not support this proposal. We consulted extensively on the bill itself and the stakeholders did not support it. As noted by the review, there is a divergence of views. I know Senator Di Natale went to some submitters, but, equally, the government has assessed the range of submissions across the review and has come to the view that this amendment, and what it seeks to do, goes too far.</para>
<para>Other mandatory statements will be required if we go down this track. The reforms will introduce measures to improve transparency for consumers, including a new mandatory requirement for listed medicine products to identify their evidence base for efficacy. For example, they'll be required to say 'traditionally used in Western herbal medicine' or 'traditionally used in Chinese medicine'. That will be required to be put on the product. So if you want to purchase something that is for traditional use, and you as a consumer understand what you're looking for and why you need it, that will be clear to you. But if you are seeking a different type of product as you shop around for your medicines and health products then you won't be selecting that type of product, or you'll be forced to actually think about whether that's the product you indeed want.</para>
<para>There will be a significant impact on our industry. As I've stated earlier, I think it is offensive and disrespectful to those who practise traditional medicine. It's not consistent with the World Health Organization. We, as a country, have endorsed the World Health Organization position on the role of complementary medicines in the national medicines framework, and this position acknowledges that traditional medicines do have a valid function in modern medicinal frameworks. It's great to recognise diversity, to talk about multiculturalism and to recognise traditional owners, but you also need to understand that cohorts within Australian society have been practising traditional medicines and forms of healing for centuries—for millennia. What we have sought to do is recognise that but also to underpin it with regard to human health and safety, which, obviously, is paramount.</para>
<para>Traditional Chinese medicine practitioners are recognised under the national law governing medical practitioners administered by the Commonwealth and AHPRA. It follows a detailed review by government of which modalities are evidence-based and, therefore, have credibility. We have done a lot of thinking around this and we think we've hit the mark on the types of labels, disclosure and information that will be available to Australian consumers. We've committed to increased compliance activity for listed medicines. I know that Senator Di Natale in his comments made reference to past incidents of concern. We've actually strengthened compliance around that to ensure the health and safety of all Australians as much as possible. So the government will not be supporting the amendment.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:56</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator POLLEY</name>
    <name.id>e5x</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>As I outlined previously, in the debate on the first amendments, it has been Labor's position that, first and foremost, there is always going to be concern for the consumer. We want the best health outcomes. We have negotiated with the government on this piece of legislation and we're satisfied that this legislation is a good first step. This is a good framework that we, at this point in time, can work with. I do note the concerns that were raised by the Greens, but I acknowledge, too, the government's responses to those amendments, and I don't intend to take up the time of the Senate to reiterate those responses.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The TEMPORARY CHAIR</name>
    <name.id>I0V</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that Greens amendment (2) on sheet 8353 be agreed to.</para>
<para>Question negatived.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:54</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKENZIE</name>
    <name.id>207825</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move government amendment (1) on sheet JC487:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Clause 2, page 2 (table item 6), omit the item, substitute:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">6. Schedule 6, 1 July 2020. 1 July 2020</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Part 2</para></quote>
<para>As I said earlier, this amendment was reached, noting the concerns of the Australian Greens and in consultation and negotiation with the Australian Labor Party. We thank them for their approach and for being so proactive in finding a middle ground where we will be reviewing after 18 months and continuing the existing pre-approval process for two years.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:57</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator POLLEY</name>
    <name.id>e5x</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>As outlined during my speech in the second reading debate on this legislation, Labor had concerns about scrapping the pre-approvals and we intended to move our own amendment. Having extracted a key concession from the government that the pre-approvals will remain until 1 July 2020 and that there will be a review in 18 months—and I think that's the important element that the minister has just touched on—the legislation is acceptable to Labor. We shall be supporting this amendment and, in fact, we will be supporting the bill.</para>
<para>The TEMPORARY CHAIR: The question is that amendment (1) on sheet JC487 moved by Minister McKenzie be agreed to.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Therapeutic Goods Amendment (2017 Measures No. 1) Bill 2017, as amended, agreed to; Therapeutic Goods (Charges) Amendment Bill 2017 agreed to.</para>
<para>Therapeutic Goods Amendment (2017 Measures No. 1) Bill 2017 reported with amendments; Therapeutic Goods (Charges) Amendment Bill 2017 reported without amendments; report adopted.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Third Reading</title>
            <page.no>14</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:00</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKENZIE</name>
    <name.id>207825</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That these bills be now read a third time.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Migration Amendment (Skilling Australians Fund) Bill 2018, Migration (Skilling Australians Fund) Charges Bill 2017</title>
          <page.no>14</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
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            <p>
              <a href="r5999" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Migration Amendment (Skilling Australians Fund) Bill 2018</span>
                </p>
              </a>
            </p>
            <a href="r5998" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Migration (Skilling Australians Fund) Charges Bill 2017</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>14</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:00</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak on behalf of Labor on the Migration Amendment (Skilling Australians Fund) Bill 2018 and the Migration (Skilling Australians Fund) Charges Bill 2017. The bills amend the Migration Act 1958 and provide a framework to collect an additional levy from employers accessing workers under the temporary and permanent employer-sponsored migration programs. Labor referred these bills to the Senate education and employment committee for inquiry to allow for further scrutiny by stakeholders most impacted by this legislation. Stakeholders have been absolutely vocal in raising their concerns about the consequences of the bills.</para>
<para>The bills allow the Minister for Immigration and Border Protection to determine by legislative instrument the manner in which labour market testing must be undertaken for a nominated position and the kinds of evidence that must accompany a visa application. Labour market testing requires employers who want to bring in overseas workers to first test the local labour market. This is to make sure that there are no suitably qualified and experienced local workers readily available to fill those positions prior to bringing in overseas workers. This is about putting local workers first.</para>
<para>Labor has genuine concerns that the Migration Amendment (Skilling Australians Fund) Bill 2018 doesn't legislate strict labour market testing conditions. Labor's private member's bill, the Migration (Skilling Australians Fund) Charges Bill 2017, introduced a more rigorous requirement for labour market testing to be incorporated into legislation, such as a requirement that jobs be advertised for a minimum of four weeks and a ban on job advertisements that target only overseas workers and exclude Australians. In addition to our private members bill, Labor has announced a comprehensive plan to put local jobs first and to invest in employment and training.</para>
<para>The Migration (Skilling Australians Fund) Charges Bill 2017 imposes the nomination training contribution charge payable, sets a charge limit for the nomination training contribution charge and provides for the indexation of the charge limit. These charges will apply to the temporary skills shortage visa, which is to replace the temporary work skilled subclass 457 visa in March 2018 , the employer nomination scheme subclass 186 visa and the regional sponsored migration scheme subclass 187 visa. States and territories are not exempt from paying the nomination training contribution charge. The Commonwealth cannot be liable to pay Commonwealth taxes or fees, although the Migration Amendment (Skilling Australians Fund) Bill 2018 makes the Commonwealth notionally liable to pay the nomination training contribution charge, including possible pecuniary penalties such as fines, for not paying the nomination training contribution charge.</para>
<para>The bill asks Australians to trust that Minister Dutton will do the right thing in a legislative instrument. But Minister Dutton has proved time and time again that he can't be trusted to do the right thing and protect labour market testing. That's why Labor has moved substantive amendments to implement minimum standards for labour market testing. Labor fought and won for labour market testing to be included in amendments to the Building Code as part of the Building and Construction Industry (Improving Productivity) Bill 2013. I will be moving detailed amendments to attempt to fix the government's failures, because labour market testing means local workers get the first shot at local jobs. If the out-of-touch Turnbull government won't protect local workers, Labor will protect them.</para>
<para>The revenue from the levies introduced by this bill will become the sole source of funding for what the government has called the Skilling Australians Fund. The government is claiming that the fund will be $1.47 billion in total, with $1.2 billion raised from visa fees. From 2018-19, the government is saying, the fund will rely entirely on revenue from the visas. There is no guarantee that the revenue from the levies will reach that amount. I will be looking at further amendments, which I will distribute as soon as I possibly can, to actually guarantee the income.</para>
<para>An effective skill formation system is essential to national economic and social prosperity. There was a time not long ago that Australia's apprenticeship system was the envy of the world. In the latest IMD world talent ranking, Australia is towards the bottom of the leaderboard when it comes to apprenticeships and employer commitment. Australia has placed 51st out of 67 nations for the area of apprenticeships sufficiently implemented and 43rd for employee training as a high priority in companies. Under this government we are seeing our international position on training decline. As a consequence, Australia is falling down the world talent rankings when it comes to investment and development of homegrown talent. A recent OECD report shows that Australia has poor capacity to access global value chains as a result of our lack of skills and high-tech manufacturing and complex business services.</para>
<para>Experts that submitted to a recent Senate inquiry into the VET system in SA spoke with one voice. They all said the national vocational education and training system needs fundamental reform. Professor John Buchanan identified compelling facts about the system, and he showed that the system is highly fragmented at the same time as being very rigid, and that there are poor connections between the labour market and qualifications. According to COAG data, the system is failing on its own measures. Large for-profit training providers have been making profits in the order of 35 per cent to 50 per cent—profits of up to 50 per cent for companies that are ripping off young Australians trying to access training. He concluded that there is no discipline on the system to preserve quality. Alan Finkel, the Chief Scientist, is concerned that the system is not equal to providing the skills that are needed for technical advances and rapidly changing labour markets that we are entering. Even the Productivity Commission—and I'm no great fan of the Productivity Commission—have called the VET system a mess. Last year, in their five-year productivity review, <inline font-style="italic">Shifting the dial</inline>, they said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Despite its important but complex role, the VET sector has been beset with a raft of problems leading to a sector characterised by rapidly rising student debt, high student non-completion rates, poor labour market outcomes for some students, unscrupulous and fraudulent behaviour on the part of some training providers.</para></quote>
<para>The BCA, the Business Council of Australia, is calling for systemic transformation and is of the view that it will take billions of dollars to put the VET system back together.</para>
<para>What has the government been doing in response to this? The government has done nothing to confront the underlying issues that plague the VET system; instead, they came up with the Skilling Australians Fund, which has been roundly criticised for its instability, its lack of sustainability and its failure to deal with the flaws in the VET system. The government has designed a system for funding skill formation, a matter of fundamental importance for ensuring the prosperity of our nation, that relies entirely on uncertain revenue. If the revenue from visas goes down, so will the funding for skills.</para>
<para>The funding mechanism has been condemned by experts and stakeholders. Back in May 2017, when the Skilling Australians Fund was first announced by the government, Professor Peter Noonan from the Mitchell Institute for health and education policy was already describing the flaws in the design of the fund:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Revenue for the fund will be highest when skilled migration is highest, and lowest when employment of locally skilled workers is highest. That means the revenue stream for the fund will be counter-cyclical to the purpose for which it was established: to increase the proportion of locally trained workers and to lessen reliance on temporary skilled migration visas.</para></quote>
<para>Submitters to the Senate inquiry had the following to say about the government's approach. The Law Council of Australia said this:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… the Law Council is concerned that, should the number of skilled migrants decrease due to the Levy, so too would funding. If less funding for training and vocational education is provided to Australian and permanent residents, the demand for overseas labour may increase. Therefore, the Law Council suggests that the Levy should not provide the only source of revenue for the Fund.</para></quote>
<para>It seems like common sense to me: if you want to have a decent training system, you put the funding in. The National Apprentice Employment Network, the organisation that represents group training companies, employing about 10 per cent of apprentices, said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The VET sector should never be in a position where the best it can do to ensure sustainable funding for apprentices, going forward, is to encourage increased skilled migrant employment.</para></quote>
<para>The Victorian TAFE Association said this:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… the levels of funding provided should first and foremost be driven not by the amount raised by migration charges but by the level required to train and educate Australians that maximises their contribution to Australia's economic success, future productivity and growth.</para></quote>
<para>ACCI, a business group, said that the federal government has sent a strong negative signal about their commitment to vocational training. The Electrical Trades Union called it absurd and said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The budget of the fund needs to be guaranteed, consistent and decoupled from how much money is actually brought in by the levy. There needs to be a guarantee of funding to ensure there is adequate training and, obviously, the levy can be used to defray. We should not have a system where there is funding for training of Australian workers contingent upon the importation of temporary workers.</para></quote>
<para>The ACTU said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">It is our opinion that the VET funding model outlined in this proposal fundamentally fails to address the real weaknesses in our current VET system.</para></quote>
<para>The government says that their Skilling Australians Fund will have matching funding from the states and territories, but it has been nearly 10 months and there is still no sign of any agreement. I note that the minister has been ringing around, pleading with state ministers to sign off. It was entirely predictable that the government would struggle to make an agreement with the state and territory governments on the Skilling Australians Fund. As ACCI pointed out in its submission to the inquiry:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Given there is no guarantee that the SAF will receive the amount of monies that are projected to be raised through the migration programme use, this has created uncertainty in the negotiations with the states/territories.</para></quote>
<para>Professor Peter Noonan made the same observation nearly a year ago:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Unless the Commonwealth guarantees funding levels and continues to make up any shortfall in the revenue, it will be difficult, if not impossible, for the Commonwealth to enter meaningful, bilateral agreements with the states through the fund.</para></quote>
<para>While the government is failing to settle agreements with the states because their funding mechanism is so absurd, the Senate inquiry was being told about apprentice vacancies—1,000 in New South Wales alone—that can't be filled. And we know there is a potential skills crisis looming in the disability and aged care sectors.</para>
<para>In their original announcement, the government claimed that the Skilling Australians Fund would lead to an additional 300,000 apprentices and trainees over the forward estimates. The Department of Education and Training is saying it will develop up to 300,000 apprentices, trainees, pre-apprentices, pre-trainees and higher apprentices. If the government pursues that target within that time frame with this farcical funding regime, Labor is very concerned that the quality of apprenticeships and traineeships will suffer. The last thing we need is a return to poor quality traineeships that are simply wage subsidies for already low-paid jobs.</para>
<para>Like Labor, stakeholders are understandably concerned that the Skilling Australians Fund might be used to undermine the quality of apprentice training. Witnesses referred to discussions between the state and federal governments about projects to fund what was described variously as a 'new style of apprenticeships,' 'an apprentice-like experience,' and, 'training that shares similar characteristics to an apprenticeship'. I know Mr Banerjee, from the department, is quite oblique at times, but this takes obliqueness to a new level.</para>
<para>The National Apprentice Employment Network had this to say about what the government is talking to the states about:</para>
<quote><para class="block">There have also been some discussions around the weakening of those guidelines to include things such as apprentice-like employment, and we have seen programs such as the builders program in South Australia and other institutional based trade training programs that fundamentally, through our experience with employers, do not necessarily result in employment capabilities of the individuals participating in them.</para></quote>
<para>Ms Tiltman referred to the Bob Day student builder pilot. The government paid $2 million—to the registered training organisation that then Senator Bob Day founded and chaired for 10 years—to fund 20 students to undertake a carpentry course in a classroom. Minister Birmingham has assured us in this place that these 20 students would end up with building licences. I've got to tell anyone in South Australia listening in: if someone says they've got a building licence, they might never have been on a building site for paid work in their life. It is an absolute nonsense. But it was done by this government to placate Senator Bob Day at the time, to guarantee his vote on bills in this place. It is just outrageous that the training system would be used to bribe a senator in this place.</para>
<para>Ms Tiltman went on to explain the damage that can be done to unsuspecting students enrolling in courses that they think will lead them into work, when, in fact, the industry won't take them on. She described taking calls from people that have completed an institutionally based course and can't get a job because they don't have the experience and they're competing in the labour market with fully qualified tradespeople who have completed an apprenticeship. Not surprisingly, there has been strong opposition to the use of institutionally based training as a replacement for apprenticeships and traineeships. The government needs to ensure that the fund provides quality skills development that the community and employers can trust. What we've heard so far doesn't instil confidence.</para>
<para>The government has done nothing to ensure the sustainability of TAFE. Nationally, there has been a 20 per cent drop in government-funded training at TAFE between 2013 and 2016. We're in serious danger of losing the institutional capacity to deliver skills if we don't sustain our TAFE network. That should be of major concern to the government, and yet there is no reference to TAFE in any of the government's announcements about the Skilling Australians Fund. They sit back and watch as TAFE doors close and skills shortage courses are struck off the list of offerings. We have a situation in South Australia where the Liberal opposition are promising to move to a fully contestable training system if they win government. That would mean a $70-million cut to TAFE per year in South Australia. They are happy to decimate TAFE and throw the students of South Australia onto the mercy of a flawed training market, where private for-profit providers have made profits of between 35 and 50 per cent.</para>
<para>A government without a plan for education and training has no plan for Australia's future. The Turnbull government has no answer on jobs. This is a government that can't deliver on the fundamentals. During the course of this debate, we will raise issues that need to be addressed. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:20</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PRATT</name>
    <name.id>I0T</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>We have the Migration Amendment (Skilling Australians Fund) Bill 2018 and the Migration (Skilling Australians Fund) Charges Bill 2017 before us today. We know that these bills seek to amend the Migration Act to provide a framework to collect an additional levy from employers accessing workers under the temporary and permanent employer-sponsored migration programs. This is a worthy endeavour, and one worth supporting, but it is inherently flawed in terms of whether it will do due justice to our TAFE and education and training sectors. I want to say from the outset that the government has a long way to go in this regard.</para>
<para>The charges enabled in this legislation will apply to the temporary skills shortage visa, which we know replaces the 457 visa—that happened last March; the employer nomination scheme (subclass 186) visa; and the regional sponsored migration scheme (subclass 187) visa. We also understand that the immigration minister can determine by legislative instrument the manner in which labour market testing must be undertaken for a nominated position and the kinds of evidence that must accompany a nomination.</para>
<para>As I've said, Labor does not disagree that an additional levy on temporary skilled visas is, potentially, a skilled migration policy that can help ensure that local workers get the first shot at local jobs. But the simple fact is that this bill does not go far enough in ensuring that local jobs for local people come first. Equally importantly, this bill does little to ensure adequate funding for our TAFE and further education sector—which is what we need to support in order to drive the creation of the skills that this nation needs, so that we don't have to rely on overseas labour.</para>
<para>So there are issues with this bill, particularly with the Skilling Australians Fund. The revenue collected from the training contribution charge provided for in this bill goes to the Skilling Australians Fund, as we know. It is a training fund administered by the Department of Education and Training for the funding of apprenticeships and traineeships. In theory, this sounds terrific. Of course we should be putting more money into skills and training. But the funding in this bill is not stable and it is not guaranteed. The bill relies solely on skilled visas as the source of income for this fund to train local workers. The funding is dependent on the number of skilled visas and subsequent revenue from the nomination training contribution charge.</para>
<para>What is perhaps most concerning is that the Skilling Australians Fund makes no reference to critical support for our technical and further education sector. Any serious discussion about skills and education in our nation must have a conversation about TAFE, must include TAFE, must fund TAFE and must prioritise TAFE. We cannot in this nation allow our economy to rely solely on for-profit providers, many of which have a track record of exploiting people in the training sector. I have seen this firsthand. I've seen training providers offer training courses hand over fist in things that are cheap to run and easy to deliver, at the expense of what our economy really needs. The kinds of courses that TAFE can deliver—this is particularly an issue with things like diesel mechanics, welders and fitters—are all those trades where you need proper facilities and proper example trade environments to run your training. TAFE is the backbone of that quality training in our nation, yet more and more, because of underfunding, TAFEs are closing their doors on the very courses that are part of the skills shortage in our nation. We must ensure that our public vocational education sector is well funded to provide the training and skills we need in our country for the future.</para>
<para>The Liberals have a terrible track record. Labor doubts the shaky funding for the Skilling Australians Fund will ever raise enough revenue to ensure the skills and training for Australians through the TAFE sector. In examining this legislation, independent analysis has very much backed up these concerns. That analysis shows the design of the Skilling Australians Fund is inherently flawed. If the number of visas goes down, so will funding for skills. The ACTU highlighted this at the Senate inquiry, where they said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">In the absence of real transparency and firm commitments from the federal government about guaranteed levels of VET funding, the measures proposed by these bills will simply never be enough.</para></quote>
<para>The government needs to invest in education, skills and training more than ever, and Australia really needs it. TAFE Directors Australia submitted the following to the inquiry:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… TDA wishes to raise the broader concern that the Skilling Australians Fund risks focussing on apprenticeships and traineeships at the expense of responding to other important priorities facing the Australian economy. The priorities include mitigating the impact of automation, artificial intelligence and other disruptive technologies on the levels and types of skill workers, and ultimately ensuring that all Australians are active participants in the labour market, which is so central to sustaining the nation's GDP, and ensuring our ongoing international competitiveness.</para></quote>
<para>I share those concerns. In other words, without strategic thought and investment about where skills and training need to go to cope with the future economy of our nation, we will be in trouble.</para>
<para>This bill provides none of that strategic foresight and none of that investment; instead, it provides a fund where the market can let rip on who gets to train and do what, which is an incredible mismatch with the kinds of skills and education that young people and older people retraining need to engage in the workforce. The ACTU included in their submission:</para>
<quote><para class="block">It is our opinion that the VET funding model outlined in this proposal fundamentally fails to address the real weaknesses in our current VET system. A relatively small, unstable funding source is not an effective remedy for a system in which few of the current issues can be considered to be caused by lack of funding.</para></quote>
<para>So, at the core of this is not only a lack of funding; it is also a lack of systemic oversight for our TAFE sector. Essentially we have a government in the Liberal coalition that refuses to take any responsibility for sitting down with industry and sitting down with technical and further education providers to work out what the priorities of our nation really need to be. We've gone a long way backwards in this regard in recent years.</para>
<para>I agree with comments of my fellow Labor senators in their dissenting report from the inquiry into this bill. They've raised serious concerns with the design of the fund. Skills and training policy should never be dictated by the number of visa applications being made. Importantly, any funding from this fund could never make up for the massive cuts to TAFE that have taken place under this government.</para>
<para>There are issues with this bill also in relation to labour market testing. It is of great concern that this bill does not legislate strict conditions for labour market testing. It provides no defined parameters and relies on the immigration minister to determine the manner in which labour market testing is undertaken by legislative instrument. That is simply not good enough for us on this side of the chamber. Temporary visas should be used only where there is a genuine skills shortage, and vigorous labour market testing needs to be conducted to ensure that there really are no suitably qualified workers available to fill a position before permission is given to bring in overseas workers.</para>
<para>These changes, according to the ACTU, leave the labour market testing process virtually entirely in the hands of the minister. In other words, there doesn't have to be any process that's agreed by industry, that's agreed by people in this place, that's worked through with the TAFE sector, and that matches up with where skills shortages are and actually aligns skills shortages with where we invest in education and training places. This is simply not good enough. The ACTU also said, 'Poor labour market testing standards have facilitated the widespread use of 457 visas and the real harm done to many temporary visa workers through exploitation and wage theft.' My own union, the Australian Manufacturing Workers' Union, raised concerns. They said: 'The ease with which temporary worker visas can be achieved is driving higher demand. We think that calls for greater regulation, tighter regulation in respect of labour market testing.'</para>
<para>We share these concerns from the ACTU and the AMWU. This bill does not provide strict enough labour market testing across all occupations and skilled visas. We're simply asked to trust that Peter Dutton will do the right thing with his instrument. But Minister Peter Dutton has proven time and time again that he can't be trusted to do the right thing in labour market testing. Time after time the government proves that they cannot be trusted on labour market testing. You can't trust the Turnbull government with local jobs, and this bill is further evidence of that. The bill simply fails to legislate for strict labour market testing across all occupations and all skilled visa areas.</para>
<para>Mr President, can you blame us on this side for being sceptical? This government has a terrible track record on training. This government has a terrible track record on labour market testing. The Abbott-Turnbull government has ripped $2.8 billion out of skills and training over its five years in government. That has had a terrible impact on people's opportunities in this nation. We know that there was a $637 million cut from skills and training in the last budget alone. There are close to 140,000 fewer trainees and apprenticeships since the Liberals came into government. There are 41,000 fewer trade apprentices. And there was a 30 per cent drop in government funding for the TAFE sector between 2013 and 2016 alone. What an appalling track record. This bill can in no way go nearly far enough in making up for this government's lack of commitment to education and training in this nation.</para>
<para>Now, we know and those opposite should also know that the future of TAFE is absolutely vital to the future of our country, but they are not interested in investing in skills. A government with no plan for technical and further education in our training has no plan for Australia's future—no plan for jobs, no answers on skills, no answers on training and no answers on TAFE. This government simply can't deliver on the most fundamental aspects of a skills policy for our nation: a secure and rational funding base that deals with the real issues in our labour market and matches them up properly. This is a government that's simply not up to the job.</para>
<para>We have in our country underemployment at record highs and unemployment that is far too common, especially for young Australians and people in our regions. I see this right around Western Australia. Investing in skills and training to enable these young people and these local workers to get well-paid and secure jobs is essential. I see firsthand, right around Western Australia, the daily struggle of our young people in accessing the opportunities that they need. We've got fantastic up-and-coming economic opportunities in Western Australia with rail manufacturing and with defence manufacturing, but we will not have the skilled workforce that we need to do these jobs, because the government is simply not connecting people up with these opportunities with the education and training that they need to do them. What's the point in expanding and investing in these industries if, essentially, you then have to pull in overseas workers to do the job?</para>
<para>We must invest in education and skills training more than ever. Effective skills formation is the critical fundamental to our national economic and social prosperity. The Turnbull government should be preparing Australians with skills for a transforming labour market, for the massive technology changes that we know we will experience. But we see a designed training fund that relies exclusively on a levy for skilled migrant visas. It demonstrates how out of touch the Prime Minister is and how, yet again, they're relying solely on skilled visas and the fees attached to those to train local workers through this very unstable fund. It's simply not enough.</para>
<para>Those opposite have also failed to protect the penalty rates for 700,000 of Australia's workers and are now failing to protect local workers in getting the first shot at local jobs. Only yesterday in the House the Turnbull government voted against a Labor amendment to ensure local workers can apply for local jobs first before an employer can bring in workers from overseas. Our amendments moved in the lower house and in this place should be supported. Labor's agenda with amendments to this bill and our agenda in government is about having a plan for local jobs and about having a plan for TAFE. That is at the centre of our agenda. It is about having a genuine plan to put local workers first and to ensure businesses are training and employing local workers. This is what the real agenda for our nation should be.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:40</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'NEILL</name>
    <name.id>140651</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I too rise to make a contribution to the debate on the Migration Amendment (Skilling Australians Fund) Bill 2018, following on from that of my great colleague Senator Pratt, with regard to one of the fundamental institutions that provides a safe, educated workforce for the things that Australians need every day, like hairdressers and electricians. They do pretty important work in our community and they are a valuable part of the skill set of our community. Sadly, we've seen an incredible degradation of the capacity of TAFE to provide the sorts of skills and the standard of skills and training that Australia has certainly come to expect and was once prided on around the world. This legislation is so important because the decisions that this government makes have a profound impact down the track on what Australians experience.</para>
<para>I just want to put on the record a related matter with regard to what the government did about apprentices and access to support for apprentices shortly after they were elected. Under the watch of Tony Abbott, something that disappeared very, very quickly was Tools for Your Trade. Hairdressers have quite an expensive set of scissors to purchase, and electricians need particular gear to do their job, as do plumbers and all of those attending TAFE. Instead of getting a leg-up from support and government funding to provide the basic tools for their trade, they were offered an alternative that the government sold as something potentially good for those attending TAFE. The consequences of that have come home to roost. Just three weeks ago, I was at a hairdresser on the Central Coast, where I was talking to a wonderful young woman who is now acquiring a $20,000 debt at the rate of $650 a month. That is the debt burden that she is acquiring. She hasn't got a car. She was planning to save for a car, but she's been coerced into signing up for one of these $20,000 loans that this government has foisted on the Australian youth sector. It is predominantly youth. Often young people with very limited literacy skills are being implicated in that system. That failure is having impacts right across our entire community. What we're discussing today is another iteration of how we break down TAFE, how we take away proper training and how we break the sector. That's what the outcome will be if this piece of legislation is passed here today.</para>
<para>We've seen, through this piece of legislation, incredible contesting of the government's assertions about what the legislation is actually going to achieve. I have to say that, given the decay of trust in the VET sector and the TAFE sector, we should be listening to the experts who are giving us very, very clear evidence about their great concern about what this government is trying to inflict on us all. Professor Noonan, from the Mitchell Institute for Health and Education Policy, described the flaws back in May of last year, so it's not like the government haven't had a chance to hear what's going on. Professor Noonan said the flaws in the design of the fund that is proposed under this piece of legislation, the Migration Amendment (Skilling Australians Fund) Bill 2018, include:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… revenue for the fund will be highest when skilled migration is highest, and lowest when employment of locally skilled workers is highest. That means the revenue stream for the fund will be counter-cyclical to the purpose for which it was established: to increase the proportion of locally trained workers and to lessen reliance on temporary skilled migration visas.</para></quote>
<para>These people know what they're talking about. Professor Noonan clearly understands the problems with creating a fund to supply all of the money for a TAFE or VET system based on employers paying only when they bring in skilled migration. It's a system that simply doesn't work.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! It being 11.45 am the debate is interrupted. Senator O'Neill, you will be in continuation when the debate resumes. Senator McGrath.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>20</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Special Purpose Flights</title>
          <page.no>20</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:45</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McGRATH</name>
    <name.id>217241</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I present a schedule of special purpose flights from 1 June 2017 to 30 June 2017.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>NOTICES</title>
        <page.no>20</page.no>
        <type>NOTICES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Presentation</title>
          <page.no>20</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>21</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Selection of Bills Committee</title>
          <page.no>21</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Report</title>
            <page.no>21</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:45</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BUSHBY</name>
    <name.id>HLL</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I present the second report for 2018 of the Selection of Bills Committee. I seek leave to have the report incorporated in <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline>.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">The report read as follows—</inline></para>
<quote><para class="block">1. The committee met in private session on Wednesday, 14 February 2018 at 7.26 pm.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">2. The committee recommends that—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) the Australian Citizenship Legislation Amendment (Strengthening the Commitments for Australian Citizenship and Other Measures) Bill 2018 be referred immediately to the Legal and Constitutional Affairs Legislation Committee for inquiry and report by 4 December 2018 (see appendix 1 for a statement of reasons for referral);</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) the provisions of the Higher Education Support Legislation Amendment (Student Loan Sustainability) Bill 2018 be referred immediately to the Education and Employment Legislation Committee for inquiry and report by 16 March 2018 (see appendix 2 for a statement of reasons for referral);</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) contingent upon introduction in the House of Representatives, the provisions of the Intelligence Services Amendment (Establishment of the Australian Signals Directorate) Bill 2018 be referred immediately to the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Legislation Committee for inquiry and report by 21 March 2018 (see appendix 3 for a statement of reasons for referral);</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(d) the provisions of the Migration Amendment (Clarification of Jurisdiction) Bill 2018 be referred immediately to the Legal and Constitutional Affairs Legislation Committee for inquiry and report by 5 June 2018 (see appendix 4 for a statement of reasons for referral);</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(e) the provisions of the Treasury Laws Amendment (2018 Measures No. 2) Bill 2018 be referred immediately to the Economics Legislation Committee for inquiry and report by 15 March 2018 (see appendix 5 for a statement of reasons for referral); and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(f) the provisions of the Treasury Laws Amendment (Reducing Pressure on Housing Affordability Measures No. 2) Bill 2018 and Foreign Acquisitions and Takeovers Fees Imposition Amendment (Near-new Dwelling Interests) Bill 2018 be referred immediately to the Economics Legislation Committee for inquiry and report by 23 March 2018 (see appendix 6 for a statement of reasons for referral).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">3. The committee recommends that the following bills not be referred to committees:</para></quote>
<list>Commonwealth Inscribed Stock Amendment (Debt Ceiling) Bill 2018</list>
<list>Imported Food Control Amendment (Country of Origin) Bill 2017</list>
<list>Treasury Laws Amendment (Black Economy Taskforce Measures No. 1) Bill 2018.</list>
<quote><para class="block">4. The committee deferred consideration of the following bills to its next meeting:</para></quote>
<list>Australian Passports Amendment (Identity-matching Services) Bill 2018</list>
<list>Crimes Amendment (National Disability Insurance Scheme - Worker Screening) Bill 2018</list>
<list>Identity-matching Services Bill 2018</list>
<list>National Housing Finance and Investment Corporation Bill 2018</list>
<list>National Housing Finance and Investment Corporation (Consequential Amendments and Transitional Provisions) Bill 2018</list>
<list>Road Vehicle Standards Bill 2018</list>
<list>Road Vehicle Standards (Consequential and Transitional Provisions) Bill 2018</list>
<list>Road Vehicle Standards Charges (Imposition—General) Bill 2018</list>
<list>Road Vehicle Standards Charges (Imposition—Customs) Bill 2018</list>
<list>Road Vehicle Standards Charges (Imposition—Excise) Bill 2018</list>
<list>Social Services Legislation Amendment (14-month Regional Independence Criteria) Bill 2018</list>
<list>Social Services Legislation Amendment (Encouraging Self-sufficiency for Newly Arrived Migrants) Bill 2018</list>
<list>Treasury Laws Amendment (2018 Measures No. 1) Bill 2018</list>
<list>Treasury Laws Amendment (2018 Measures No. 3) Bill 2018</list>
<list>Treasury Laws Amendment (Illicit Tobacco Offences) Bill 2018</list>
<list>Treasury Laws Amendment (Income Tax Consolidation Integrity) Bill 2018</list>
<list>Veterans' Affairs Legislation Amendment (Veteran-centric Reforms No. 1) Bill 2018.</list>
<list>(David Bushby)</list>
<quote><para class="block">Chair</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">15 February 2018</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Appendix 1</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">SELECTION OF BILLS COMMITTEE</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Proposal to refer a bill to a committee</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Name of bill: Australian Citizenship Legislation Amendment (Strengthening the Commitment for Australian Citizenship and Other Measures) Bill 2018</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Reasons for referral/principal issues for consideration:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">On the 22nd of June 2017 an almost identical Bill was referred to Committee but most submissions were from the Refugee Industry or individual refugees.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I believe many Australians were unaware of the Government's Bill and the opportunity to make a submission. My Private Senator's Bill only differs from the earlier Government's Bill is the length of time required to be on a permanent visa before applying for Citizenship.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The proposal contained in this Bill is very important. I believe Senators should be given the opportunity to hear from a wider group of Australians.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I will publicize the opportunity to make a submission if the Bill is accepted for referral.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Possible submissions or evidence from:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Those Australians who did not make a submission to the Government's Bill</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Committee to which bill is to be referred:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Senate Legal and Constitutional Affairs Legislation Committee</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Possible hearing date is):</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">June-July</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Possible reporting date:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">December 2018</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Appendix 2</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">SELECTION OF BILLS COMMITTEE</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Proposal to refer a bill to a committee</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Name of bill:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Higher Education Support Legislation Amendment (Student Loan Sustainability)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Reasons for referral/principal issues for consideration:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Changes proposed in this bill could have a substantial impact on the delivery of higher education, and students.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The introduction of a new borrowing limit across the whole income-contingent loans scheme could have a number of unintended consequences.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Possible submissions or evidence from:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">National Union of Students (and associated student associations)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Universities Australia</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">University groupings (Go8, RUN, IRU)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Individual universities</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Committee to which bill is to be referred:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Senate Education and Employment Legislation Committee</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Possible hearing date(s):</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">To be determined by the Committee</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Possible reporting date:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">16 March 2018</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Appendix 3</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">SELECTION OF BILLS COMMITTEE</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Proposal to refer a bill to a committee</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Name of bill:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">I</inline> <inline font-style="italic">ntelligence Service Amendment (Establishment of the Australian Signals Directorate) Bill 2018</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Reasons for referral/principal issues for consideration:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">To further investigate potential impacts and unintended consequences of the Bill.</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Possible submissions or evidence from:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Department of Defence (Australian Signals Directorate) CPSU</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Other TBD</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Committee to which bill is to be referred:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"><inline font-style="italic">Senate Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Legislation Committee </inline>Possible hearing date(s):</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">TBC</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Possible reporting date: <inline font-style="italic">22 March 2018</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Appendix 4</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">SELECTION OF BILLS COMMITTEE</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Proposal to refer a bill to a committee</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Name of bill:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Migration Amendment (Clarification of Jurisdiction) Bill 2018</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Reasons for referral/principal issues for consideration:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The complex nature of the <inline font-style="italic">Migration Act 1958 </inline>and the <inline font-style="italic">Administrative Appeals Tribunal Act </inline>1975 and the potential impact of these changes warrant further consultation and investigation to ensure there are no unintended consequences.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Possible submissions or evidence from:</para></quote>
<list>Department of Home Affairs</list>
<list>Attorney-General's Department</list>
<list>Law Council of Australia</list>
<list>Migration Institute of Australia</list>
<list>Other immigration and legal community stakeholders</list>
<quote><para class="block">Committee to which bill is to be referred:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Senate Legal and Constitutional Affairs Legislation Committee Possible hearing date(s):</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">To be determined by committee Possible reporting date:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">5 June 2018</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Appendix 5</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">SELECTION OF BILLS COMMITTEE</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Proposal to refer a bill to a committee</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Name of bill: Treasury Laws Amendment (2018 Measures No.2)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Reasons for referral/principal issues for consideration:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Stakeholder concerns about lack consumer protections</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Possible submissions or evidence from:</para></quote>
<list>Treasury</list>
<list>ASIC</list>
<list>CHOICE</list>
<list>Consumer Action Law Centre</list>
<list>FinTech Australia</list>
<list>Financial Rights Group</list>
<quote><para class="block">Committee to which bill is to be referred:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Senate Economics Legislation Committee</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Possible hearing date(s):</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">To be determined by the committee</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Possible reporting date:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">15 March 2018</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Appendix 6</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">SELECTION OF BILLS COMMITTEE</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Proposal to refer a bill to a committee</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Name of bill:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Treasury Laws Amendment (Reducing Pressure on Housing Affordability No. 2) Bill 2018 Foreign Acquisitions and Takeovers Fees Imposition Amendment (Near-New Dwelling Interests) Bill 2018</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Reasons for referral/principal issues for consideration:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Stakeholder concerns around built-to-rent and the interface with the Government's changes to the CGT concessions for MITs who build 'affordable housing'.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Possible submissions or evidence from:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Property Council, HIA, UDIA, academics, not-for-profits, affordable housing bodies.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Committee to which bill is to be referred: Senate Economics Legislation Committee</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Possible hearing date(s): On the papers</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Possible reporting date: 23 March 2018</para></quote>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BUSHBY</name>
    <name.id>HLL</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the report be adopted.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BUSINESS</title>
        <page.no>24</page.no>
        <type>BUSINESS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Rearrangement</title>
          <page.no>24</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:46</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McGRATH</name>
    <name.id>217241</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the order of general business for consideration today be as follows:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) general business order of the day no. 3 (Restoring Territory Rights (Assisted Suicide Legislation) Bill 2015);</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) general business notice of motion no. 724, standing in the name of Senator Urquhart relating to South Australian and Tasmanian schools funding; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) orders of the day relating to documents.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Leave of Absence</title>
          <page.no>25</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:46</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator URQUHART</name>
    <name.id>231199</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That leave of absence be granted to Senator McCarthy for today for personal reasons.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>25</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Allocation of Departments and Agencies</title>
          <page.no>25</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:47</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McGRATH</name>
    <name.id>217241</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the order of the Senate agreed to on 31 August 2016, as amended on 12 February 2018, relating to the allocation of departments and agencies to legislative and general purpose standing committees, be amended as follows:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Omit "Health and Aged Care", substitute "Health".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Omit "Infrastructure and Transport", substitute "Infrastructure, Regional Development and Cities".</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BUDGET</title>
        <page.no>25</page.no>
        <type>BUDGET</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Consideration by Estimates Committees</title>
          <page.no>25</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:47</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator URQUHART</name>
    <name.id>231199</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>At the request of Senator Cameron, I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate requests that Ms Glenys Beauchamp, PSM and Dr Chris Pigram appear before the Economics Legislation Committee to answer questions at the additional estimates hearing on 28 February 2018 or 1 March 2018 when the committee is examining the Department of Industry, Innovation and Science.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:48</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McGRATH</name>
    <name.id>217241</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a short statement.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Leave is granted for one minute.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McGRATH</name>
    <name.id>217241</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>This is a highly irregular motion. Ms Glenys Beauchamp PSM is no longer with the Department of Industry, Innovation and Science. Dr Chris Pigram is now a retired private citizen.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BILLS</title>
        <page.no>25</page.no>
        <type>BILLS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Australian Human Rights Commission Repeal (Duplication Removal) Bill 2018</title>
          <page.no>25</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" style="" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" background="">
            <a href="s1124" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Australian Human Rights Commission Repeal (Duplication Removal) Bill 2018</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>First Reading</title>
            <page.no>25</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:49</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BERNARDI</name>
    <name.id>G0D</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the following bill be introduced: A Bill for an Act to repeal the <inline font-style="italic">Australian Human Rights Commission Act 1986</inline>, and for related purposes. <inline font-style="italic">Australian Human Rights Commission Repeal (Duplication Removal) Bill 2018</inline>.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BERNARDI</name>
    <name.id>G0D</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I present the bill and move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill may proceed without formalities and be now read a first time.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a first time.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>25</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:49</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BERNARDI</name>
    <name.id>G0D</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill be now read a second time.</para></quote>
<para>I seek leave to present an explanatory memorandum relating to the bill and to have the second reading speech incorporated in <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline>.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">The speech read as follows—</inline></para>
<quote><para class="block">The intent of this Bill is to end the duplication between states & territories and the Commonwealth regarding human rights.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Efforts to address human rights concerns at a Commonwealth level have been activated by the external affairs power granted by the Constitution.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Conversely, states have the residual jurisdiction to address the manifest and increasing number of claims for human rights that are coming out of the international and globalist movement, particularly from the United Nations.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill leaves untouched the relevant federal legislation to prevent race discrimination, age discrimination, sex discrimination and the like.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">As was the case in 2000 via amendments made by the Howard Government, the Human Rights Commission will cease hearing complaints—due to its abolition. Instead, aggrieved plaintiffs will retain the right to take action under the relevant anti-discrimination regimes in the States and Territories.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In short, we must cease the increasingly aggressive agenda being advanced by so-called 'human rights commissions' and instead place the burden back on the plaintiff—as it should, under the rule of law—to establish their case before a court. It is always open to the government of the day to address the question of how the rights described in state, territory and federal legislation are resourced as a consequence of the repeal of the <inline font-style="italic">Australian Human Rights Commission Act 1986 </inline>or the government could propose consequential amendments to provide for applications by aggrieved plaintiffs to be lodged directly in the Federal Court.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I have to observe that the rationale for creating commissions such as these might have at least had some logical basis for the political left in the historical context of when they began. However, these regimes fail to look at the state of civil society and the advance of technology. It may once have been considered necessary to give the imprimatur of a taxpayer-funded commission to remedy power imbalances. Technology now places recording and broadcasting devices in the hands of every Australian. Speech or conduct that is deemed offensive can be the subject of near automatic broadcast. A person offended—rightly or wrongly—by speech or behaviour can pull out their phone and not just record but also broadcast live, if they wish, what they are unhappy about. The court of public opinion immediately weighs in on the matter. Technology has overtaken the rationale for having powerful commissions to take 'affirmative action'. Everyone has a voice now. The days of big government should be numbered.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">However, ideology prevents the political activist acting upon the evidence and accepting reality. Their political marketing model relies on two things.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Firstly, if emancipation of a minority is achieved, the brief celebration ends and these same advocates shift to advocacy for another group that allegedly needs emancipation. It is a continuous cycle of complaint and deconstruction of our culture, institutions and civil society.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Secondly, if emancipation of a minority is not achieved—and it could be argued the so-called solutions are so ill-conceived as to ensure it is not achieved—then the next tranche of solutions are increasingly radical, aggressive and destructive. This, too, breaks down civil society as advocates' frustration leads to increasing radicalisation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In the context of radicalisation, it is apt to turn to a self-confessed radical who occupied the highest position in the Commission I am seeking to abolish.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">There has been no clearer illustration of the misguided agenda of the Commission than its time under the tenure of controversial president Gillian Triggs, whose 5 year term concluded last year.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In one of her final interviews, former Attorney-General Roxon's appointee Ms Triggs told the ABC "dealing with human beings" made her "radicalised" in the job, adding, "I don't see myself as a warrior, I'm not a warrior at all. But as you meet the people … (and she lists some) … frankly, one becomes radicalised."</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The most egregious examples of the radical agenda of the former Commissioner were the cases of the late and great Bill Leak and the QUT student cases. Both turned on the problematic question of the methods aimed to advance the status of indigenous Australians.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Both cases have been well publicised and would be well-known to most senators.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Mr Leak published a cartoon in <inline font-style="italic">The Australian </inline>newspaper raising questions about Aboriginal parental responsibility.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The students from Queensland University of Technology (QUT) fell within Ms Triggs' remit when Ms Cindy Prior lodged a complaint against them. One of their number was refused access to what the student did not know was an Aboriginal-only computer lab on campus. Ms Prior informed the student of this exclusivity whilst on duty at the lab. After leaving, he and his associates to take to social media to express their surprise at—as one person put it—affirmative action now seeking to address 'segregation with segregation'. For this alleged thought crime, Ms Triggs deployed the full force of her powers against the students by supporting Ms Prior. Ms Prior claimed she has been so traumatised by this incident that she had suffered personal harm. The case was, ultimately, dismissed by the court—but not before significant cost and distress for the students.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In her final week as Human Rights Commissioner, Ms Triggs claimed the present government was 'ideologically opposed to human rights' and that such rights were 'regressing on almost every front'. It is the type of hyperbole one expects from political activists—which Ms Triggs became—not from an independent commissioner who determines human rights matters.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It is passing strange that I must indeed submit a human rights compliance statement not only on this bill, but every bill I present—as does every other senator—yet Ms Triggs asserts that somehow human rights are going backward.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Ms Triggs cited as evidence for her concerns former Prime Minister Abbott's pre-2013 campaigning to repeal the Commission. This is true, and it is indeed the policy position of Australian Conservatives. I am enacting that policy position today, a position that it would seem has been abandoned by a Coalition government that—as Ms Triggs points out—campaigned to do so.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">To say that abolishing the Commission equates to being ideologically opposed to human rights is a false dichotomy. Repealing state apparatus that claims to uphold human rights does not equate to opposing human rights. It equates, in the case of my bill today, to:</para></quote>
<list>remove duplication,</list>
<list>strengthen state rights for their proper constitutional and jurisdictional responsibilities,</list>
<list>task greater responsibility for enforcement to civil society, and</list>
<list>disarm unaccountable bodies with draconian powers to police thought-crime.</list>
<quote><para class="block">I note that this same Gillian Triggs appeared at a fundraising event for the founder of the Australian Greens political party, Mr Bob Brown, during her tenure. Mr Andrew Bolt—another victim of the unbalanced section 18C of the Racial Discrimination Act—opined at the time of this event:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">"She (Triggs) has turned this taxpayer-funded body into a soapbox for the Left and a witch-hunter to persecute conservatives, while misleading the Senate."</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Mr Bolt later recounted that:</para></quote>
<list>Ms Triggs said in a reportedly 'blistering' speech to the event that it was 'sad that you can say what you like around the kitchen table at home' and</list>
<list>Mr Brown tweeted that Ms Triggs received a standing ovation.</list>
<quote><para class="block">Perhaps, indeed, it was applause for accomplishing the mission set by the government and indeed the Attorney-General who appointed her, Ms Nicola Roxon. This is the same Attorney-General who caused a furore in November 2012 with proposals to consolidate federal anti-discrimination laws. In effect, Labor's and Ms Roxon's proposal would have expanded prohibitions of offence, insult or intimidation in the anti-discrimination space. She said, at the time, it was a 'very sensible middle course'—a refrain picked up in other contexts by former senator Xenophon. Yet her proposals triggered some 600 submissions to the Senate Legal and Constitutional Affairs committee. Ms Roxon sought to consolidate the laws touched by my bill today into one Act, but thankfully civil society spoke up in outrage about the attack on free speech that it was. One wonders whether civil society would speak up—and be heard by a future government on this topic. Thankfully, due to the advocacy of civil society, the government retreated from its proposals.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I move on to consider the actions of another Labor appointee, by former Attorney-General Dreyfus, namely Mr Tim Soutphommasane. The late Mr Leak, in particular, took umbrage to Mr Soutphommasane's approach to his role as Race Discrimination Commissioner. Last July, Mr Soutphommasane criticised those who sought to "re-open ideological culture wars" and derided those who suggest "cultural Marxism (is) taking over public institutions." He wrote not long before his appointment that "today's conservatives frequently endorse a form of destructive radicalism towards public institutions and civil society." One could not—in my view—give a better example of Newspeak than that statement. Conservatives are the ones upholding public institutions and civil society. It is the likes of leftists like Mr Soutphommasane that are doing the very thing he accuses conservatives of doing.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">A great many Australians hold conservative views and whilst open to question, when attacked by a supposedly impartial 'race discrimination commissioner', this calls into question—if I may borrow terms from the political left—his own conscious or unconscious bias.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I note that Mr Soutphommasane once said "the arts must … consciously question the status quo." Evidently, the cartoons of the late Mr Leak are not therefore art, as he was questioning the new status quo of political correctness when he was attacked under section 18C of the Racial Discrimination Act.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Mr Soutphommasane's tenure concludes in August. The Institute of Public Affairs has asserted that Mr Soutphommasane has been the source of 'incessant solicitation' of complaints under the Racial Discrimination Act.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Yet the excesses of these commissions are not limited to the federal bodies. I will focus on two examples to illustrate. Before doing so, I invite colleagues to reflect that the current and future examples of state and territory regimes that I point to are not touched by this bill. They are regimes that are already aggressively pushing affirmative action. The state-federal duplication can be resolved by removing their aggressive federal counterparts, and leaving the virtue-signalling and thought-policing to the state and territory bodies.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The first example is Tasmania. In that jurisdiction, two complaints illustrate the over-reach of anti-discrimination laws there. The cases of Archbishop Porteous and pastors Markham & Gee—both relating to sexuality discrimination complaints—are sobering examples. In both instances, adherents to the Catholic and Protestant expressions of Christianity were publicly expressing their views regarding marriage and sexuality according to their holy texts. Complaints were made against them, one of which I understand is ongoing. In the Porteous case, the complaint was withdrawn but I am very reliably informed, it was withdrawn purely for tactical purposes. The complaint was so ridiculous that it had the potential to undermine the 'Yes' campaign for redefining marriage, so the complainant was encouraged to withdraw. The advocates of these thought-policing regimes that suppress free speech shrug their shoulders and say no harm was done as the complaint was withdrawn. The Archbishop suffered public ridicule and reputational attack, and had to engage legal counsel, to defend a complaint that cost the complainant next to nothing.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The second example is that proposed in the Northern Territory. Among other proposals, the government there suggests that the regime not require an actual complainant for the equivalent commission to initiate a complaint. Nor does the proposed regime require the continuing support of a complainant for the matter to continue. In both instances, the lack of an active complainant or plaintiff is an abuse of the rule of law. It suggests that the real target is not to redress personal damage or harm, but to police thought-crime. It is a frightening prospect.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I have not even mentioned yet the regime in Victoria which is also excessive, but these two examples alone ought to illustrate that there is ample movement in the human rights space—albeit misguided, aggressive 'affirmative action'—to show that there is no need for a federal body for the same purpose.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I urge the senate to end the duplication of these functions, restore the power of states and the moderating role of civil society by supporting this Bill.</para></quote>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BERNARDI</name>
    <name.id>G0D</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to continue my remarks later.</para>
<para>Leave granted; debate adjourned.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>MOTIONS</title>
        <page.no>28</page.no>
        <type>MOTIONS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Asylum Seekers</title>
          <page.no>28</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:49</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKIM</name>
    <name.id>JKM</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) notes that:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (i) on 13 February 2018, the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) released an update on UNHCR observations from their latest mission to Manus Island,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (ii) UNHCR Regional Protection Officer, Mr Rico Salcedo, stated “What stood out the most from this mission at the time we were there, was a pervasive and worsening sense of despair among refugees and asylum seekers”,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (iii) the UNHCR further stated “We cannot emphasize enough that solutions must be found for all, outside of Papua New Guinea, as a matter of urgency. Australia remains ultimately responsible, as the state from which these refugees and asylum seekers have sought international protection, for their welfare and long-term settlement outside of Papua New Guinea”, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (iv) there have been recent reports of deteriorating conditions on Nauru, and that refugees and people seeking asylum on Nauru are also the responsibility of Australia; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) calls on the Government to end offshore detention, and evacuate to Australia every person who sought asylum in Australia and who is currently in Papua New Guinea and Nauru.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:50</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McGRATH</name>
    <name.id>217241</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a short statement.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Leave is granted for one minute.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McGRATH</name>
    <name.id>217241</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The coalition government does not support this motion. Offshore processing is a critical component of Operation Sovereign Borders. The Labor-Greens policy of abandoning regional processing cost 1,200 lives and saw 8,000 children detained. It was a humanitarian disaster.</para>
<para>The coalition government's strong and consistent border protection policies have saved countless lives, and we have taken back control of Australia's borders from the people smugglers. This government's position is clear and will not be changing. No-one who arrives illegally be boat will be permanently settled in Australia.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:50</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CHISHOLM</name>
    <name.id>39801</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a short statement.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Leave is granted for one minute.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CHISHOLM</name>
    <name.id>39801</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The Turnbull government are in their fifth year of government, and have been completely and utterly incompetent at managing Australia's offshore processing centres. It is incumbent on the Turnbull government to ensure refugees have access to essential services, including security, health and welfare services.</para>
<para>Labor believes in strong borders, offshore processing, regional resettlement and, when it's safe to do so, boat turnbacks, because we know they saves lives at sea. Manus Island and Nauru were set up as temporary processing facilities but have become places of indefinite detention because of the inaction of the Turnbull government. Labor wants eligible refugees off Manus Island and Nauru and resettled in third countries as soon as possible. We strongly support the US refugee resettlement agreement, which will see up to 1,250 refugees given the opportunity to resettle in America. One-hundred and thirty-five refugees from both Manus and Nauru have already had that opportunity. The US refugee resettlement agreement won't pick up all eligible refugees, and for that reason the Turnbull government must immediately secure other third-country settlement as a priority.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that general business notice of motion No. 725 be agreed to.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
          <division.header>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [11:56]<br />(The President—Senator Ryan)</p>
            </body>
          </division.header>
          <division.data>
            <ayes>
              <num.votes>9</num.votes>
              <title>AYES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Bartlett, AJJ</name>
                <name>Di Natale, R</name>
                <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                <name>McKim, NJ</name>
                <name>Rhiannon, L</name>
                <name>Rice, J</name>
                <name>Siewert, R (teller)</name>
                <name>Steele-John, J</name>
                <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
              </names>
            </ayes>
            <noes>
              <num.votes>39</num.votes>
              <title>NOES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Abetz, E</name>
                <name>Anning, F</name>
                <name>Bilyk, CL</name>
                <name>Brockman, S</name>
                <name>Brown, CL</name>
                <name>Burston, B</name>
                <name>Bushby, DC</name>
                <name>Cameron, DN</name>
                <name>Chisholm, A</name>
                <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                <name>Collins, JMA</name>
                <name>Duniam, J</name>
                <name>Farrell, D</name>
                <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                <name>Georgiou, P</name>
                <name>Gichuhi, LM</name>
                <name>Hanson, P</name>
                <name>Hinch, D</name>
                <name>Hume, J</name>
                <name>Keneally, KK</name>
                <name>Ketter, CR</name>
                <name>Kitching, K</name>
                <name>Leyonhjelm, DE</name>
                <name>Macdonald, ID</name>
                <name>Marshall, GM</name>
                <name>Martin, S.L</name>
                <name>McGrath, J</name>
                <name>Molan, AJ</name>
                <name>Moore, CM</name>
                <name>O'Sullivan, B</name>
                <name>Polley, H</name>
                <name>Pratt, LC</name>
                <name>Ruston, A</name>
                <name>Ryan, SM</name>
                <name>Scullion, NG</name>
                <name>Seselja, Z</name>
                <name>Sterle, G</name>
                <name>Urquhart, AE (teller)</name>
                <name>Williams, JR</name>
              </names>
            </noes>
            <pairs>
              <num.votes>0</num.votes>
              <title>PAIRS</title>
              <names></names>
            </pairs>
          </division.data>
          <division.result>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
            </body>
          </division.result>
        </division></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Newstart Allowance</title>
          <page.no>29</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:59</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SIEWERT</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) notes the Budget Priorities Statement 2018-19 of the Australian Council of Social Service launched this week in Canberra;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) recognises that research, from 2017, shows that single rates of unemployment payments are completely inadequate to cover basic living costs;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) acknowledges that our social safety net currently fails to protect those seeking work from falling into poverty;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(d) notes that the Australian Council of Social Service calls for an increase of $75 a week to allowance payments for single people from 1 January 2019; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(e) urges the Federal Government to increase the single rate of Newstart and related allowances by $75 a week.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Notice of motion altered on 14 February 2018 pursuant to standing order 77.</inline></para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:59</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McGRATH</name>
    <name.id>217241</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a short statement.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Leave is granted for one minute.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McGRATH</name>
    <name.id>217241</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Over 99 per cent of recipients on Newstart also receive one or more other government payments. Australia targets a bigger share of its cash transfers to households in the bottom 20 per cent than any other OECD country. The coalition government knows the best form of welfare is a job and will look to policies that improve employment opportunities for those on Newstart.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that motion No. 726 be agreed to.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
          <division.header>
          </division.header>
          <division.data>
            <ayes>
              <num.votes>9</num.votes>
              <title>AYES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Bartlett, AJJ</name>
                <name>Di Natale, R</name>
                <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                <name>McKim, NJ</name>
                <name>Rhiannon, L</name>
                <name>Rice, J</name>
                <name>Siewert, R (teller)</name>
                <name>Steele-John, J</name>
                <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
              </names>
            </ayes>
            <noes>
              <num.votes>42</num.votes>
              <title>NOES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Abetz, E</name>
                <name>Anning, F</name>
                <name>Bilyk, CL</name>
                <name>Brockman, S</name>
                <name>Brown, CL</name>
                <name>Burston, B</name>
                <name>Bushby, DC</name>
                <name>Cameron, DN</name>
                <name>Chisholm, A</name>
                <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                <name>Collins, JMA</name>
                <name>Duniam, J</name>
                <name>Farrell, D</name>
                <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                <name>Georgiou, P</name>
                <name>Gichuhi, LM</name>
                <name>Hanson, P</name>
                <name>Hinch, D</name>
                <name>Hume, J</name>
                <name>Keneally, KK</name>
                <name>Ketter, CR</name>
                <name>Kitching, K</name>
                <name>Leyonhjelm, DE</name>
                <name>Lines, S</name>
                <name>Macdonald, ID</name>
                <name>Marshall, GM</name>
                <name>Martin, S.L</name>
                <name>McAllister, J</name>
                <name>McGrath, J</name>
                <name>Molan, AJ</name>
                <name>Moore, CM</name>
                <name>O'Sullivan, B</name>
                <name>Polley, H</name>
                <name>Pratt, LC</name>
                <name>Ruston, A</name>
                <name>Ryan, SM</name>
                <name>Scullion, NG</name>
                <name>Seselja, Z</name>
                <name>Sterle, G</name>
                <name>Urquhart, AE (teller)</name>
                <name>Watt, M</name>
                <name>Williams, JR</name>
              </names>
            </noes>
            <pairs>
              <num.votes>0</num.votes>
              <title>PAIRS</title>
              <names></names>
            </pairs>
          </division.data>
          <division.result>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
            </body>
          </division.result>
        </division></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Climate Change</title>
          <page.no>30</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:04</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DI NATALE</name>
    <name.id>53369</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) welcomes the visit by a delegation of leaders from the Kiribati Climate Action Network and the Kiribati Ministry of Education;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) notes the strong bonds that exists between the people of Australia and the people of Kiribati;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) notes, with deep concern, the impacts that climate change is already having on Kiribati, including soil erosion and salinity, which is affecting crops and drinking water;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(d) is further concerned at reports from the 23th United Nations Climate Change Conference in 2017, that the Australian delegation pushed back against poorer countries, including Kiribati, who were calling for more funding for loss and damage caused by climate change; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(e) calls on the Government to:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (i) increase its support to Pacific Island nations, including Kiribati, through climate finance that is separate and additional to our existing official development assistance budget,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (ii) significantly increase our commitments to cut emissions under the Paris Agreement in 2018, and take into account loss and damage caused by climate change, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (iii) commit to no new coal mines in Australia, and rule out Adani's Carmichael coal mine.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:04</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McGRATH</name>
    <name.id>217241</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a short statement.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Leave is granted for one minute.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McGRATH</name>
    <name.id>217241</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Australia has a strong and growing relationship with Kiribati. Our development assistance is delivered in line with the Kiribati Development Plan and we work closely together to address the challenges of climate change. Our support to Kiribati is part of the government's commitment to invest $1 billion globally over five years into climate change and disaster risk management for developing countries. At the Pacific Islands Forum in 2016, the Prime Minister committed $300 million over four years to the Pacific to lift our support for research, resilience and response through our climate program. Australia is among more than 170 countries that have ratified the Paris agreement. Our 2030 target to reduce emissions by 26 to 28 per cent below 2005 levels is comparable with other advanced economies and will halve our per capita emissions. The government supports investment and job creation in the resources sector.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:05</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CHISHOLM</name>
    <name.id>39801</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a short statement.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Leave is granted for one minute.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CHISHOLM</name>
    <name.id>39801</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Labor is a strong supporter of international development assistance, including addressing the impacts of climate change in our Pacific neighbours such as Kiribati. The shadow foreign minister, Senator Penny Wong, has recently announced that Labor is committed to rebuilding the development assistance program after years of cuts under the current government. Labor looks forward to continuing to work closely with the people of Kiribati, and other Pacific island nations with whom we share strong bonds, to adapt to and mitigate the impacts of climate change as well as supporting their development and prosperity more broadly.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that general business motion No. 729, moved by Senator Di Natale, be agreed to.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
          <division.header>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [12:07]<br />(The President—Senator Ryan)</p>
            </body>
          </division.header>
          <division.data>
            <ayes>
              <num.votes>9</num.votes>
              <title>AYES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Bartlett, AJJ</name>
                <name>Di Natale, R</name>
                <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                <name>McKim, NJ</name>
                <name>Rhiannon, L</name>
                <name>Rice, J</name>
                <name>Siewert, R (teller)</name>
                <name>Steele-John, J</name>
                <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
              </names>
            </ayes>
            <noes>
              <num.votes>45</num.votes>
              <title>NOES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Abetz, E</name>
                <name>Anning, F</name>
                <name>Bilyk, CL</name>
                <name>Brockman, S</name>
                <name>Brown, CL</name>
                <name>Burston, B</name>
                <name>Bushby, DC</name>
                <name>Cameron, DN</name>
                <name>Chisholm, A</name>
                <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                <name>Collins, JMA</name>
                <name>Duniam, J</name>
                <name>Farrell, D</name>
                <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                <name>Georgiou, P</name>
                <name>Gichuhi, LM</name>
                <name>Griff, S</name>
                <name>Hanson, P</name>
                <name>Hinch, D</name>
                <name>Hume, J</name>
                <name>Keneally, KK</name>
                <name>Ketter, CR</name>
                <name>Kitching, K</name>
                <name>Leyonhjelm, DE</name>
                <name>Lines, S</name>
                <name>Macdonald, ID</name>
                <name>Marshall, GM</name>
                <name>Martin, S.L</name>
                <name>McAllister, J</name>
                <name>McGrath, J</name>
                <name>Molan, AJ</name>
                <name>Moore, CM</name>
                <name>O'Sullivan, B</name>
                <name>Paterson, J</name>
                <name>Patrick, RL</name>
                <name>Polley, H</name>
                <name>Pratt, LC</name>
                <name>Ruston, A</name>
                <name>Ryan, SM</name>
                <name>Scullion, NG</name>
                <name>Seselja, Z</name>
                <name>Sterle, G</name>
                <name>Urquhart, AE (teller)</name>
                <name>Watt, M</name>
                <name>Williams, JR</name>
              </names>
            </noes>
            <pairs>
              <num.votes>0</num.votes>
              <title>PAIRS</title>
              <names></names>
            </pairs>
          </division.data>
          <division.result>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
            </body>
          </division.result>
        </division></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>NOTICES</title>
        <page.no>32</page.no>
        <type>NOTICES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Withdrawal</title>
          <page.no>32</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:09</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator URQUHART</name>
    <name.id>231199</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I withdraw general business notice of motion No. 728 standing in the name of Senator Kitching for today relating to an order for the production of documents.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>MOTIONS</title>
        <page.no>32</page.no>
        <type>MOTIONS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Iraq and Syria</title>
          <page.no>32</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:10</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WHISH-WILSON</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I ask that general business notice of motion No. 727 relating to wars in Syria and Iraq be taken as a formal motion.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Is there any objection to this motion being taken as formal?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McGrath</name>
    <name.id>217241</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Yes.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>There is an objection.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WHISH-WILSON</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Oh, come on! In lieu of suspending standing orders, I seek leave to make a short statement.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Leave is granted for one minute.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WHISH-WILSON</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I don't think there's a senator in here today who doesn't agree with me and the Greens that, in the Syrian civil war, we have a horrible, bloody mess and a human catastrophe the likes of which we haven't seen in decades. I also ask senators in here to reflect on the role that we've played with our unilateral, illegal invasion of Iraq—a war based on a lie that has helped trigger the events that have led to this unfolding catastrophe in Syria. I also ask senators in here today to reflect on who has benefited from these years of war in Iraq and Syria. Violent, murderous extremists, dodgy, shady regimes, and weapons manufacturers all around the world are the three groups of people that have benefited from these wars. The only thing we can do is call on our institutions— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:11</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McGRATH</name>
    <name.id>217241</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a short statement.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Leave is granted for one minute.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McGRATH</name>
    <name.id>217241</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>As formal motions cannot be debated or amended, they should not deal with complex and contested foreign policy matters. Elements of this motion are, by their nature, complex and contested. As such, the Senate should not vote on this motion without the ability to have a full debate, given the serious and substantial issues involved.</para>
<para>In relation to paragraph (d), as stated already in response to similar motions put forward by Senator Di Natale this sitting fortnight, there is no need for an inquiry into Australia's contribution to military operations in Iraq. The circumstances in which Australia committed forces to the coalition effort in Iraq are a matter of public record and have been subject to parliamentary inquiry. The Australian Defence Force operates under strict rules of engagement in accordance with domestic and international law.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>32</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Membership</title>
          <page.no>32</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:12</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I have received letters requesting changes in the membership of committees.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:12</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McGRATH</name>
    <name.id>217241</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That senators be discharged from and appointed to committees in accordance with the document circulated in the chamber.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Community Affairs Legislation Committee—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Appointed—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Senator Keneally</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Participating member: Senator Anning</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Community Affairs References Committee—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Appointed—Participating member: Senator Anning</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Economics Legislation Committee—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Appointed—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Senator Keneally</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Participating member: Senator Anning</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Economics References Committee—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Appointed—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Senator Keneally</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Participating member: Senator Anning</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Education and Employment Legislation and References Committees—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Appointed—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Senator Keneally</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Participating member: Senator Anning</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Environment and Communications Legislation Committee—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Appointed—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Senator Keneally</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Participating member: Senator Anning</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Environment and Communications References Committee—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Discharged—Senator Farrell</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Appointed—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Senator Keneally</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Participating member: Senators Anning and Farrell</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Finance and Public Administration Legislation Committee—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Appointed—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Senator Keneally</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Participating member: Senator Anning</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Finance and Public Administration References Committee—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Appointed—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Senator Keneally</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Substitute member: Senator Steele-John to replace Senator Rhiannon for the committee's inquiry into the digital delivery of government services</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Participating members: Senators Anning and Rhiannon</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Legislation and References Committees—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Appointed—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Senator Keneally</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Participating member: Senator Anning</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade—Joint Standing Committee—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Discharged—Senator O'Neill</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Appointed—Senator Kitching</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Future of Work and Workers—Select Committee—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Discharged—Senator Gichuhi</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Law Enforcement—Joint Statutory Committee—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Discharged—Senator Farrell</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Appointed—Senator Keneally</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Legal and Constitutional Affairs Legislation and References Committees—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Appointed—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Senator Keneally</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Participating member: Senator Anning</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Migration—Joint Standing Committee—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Appointed—Senator Keneally</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">National Disability Insurance Scheme—Joint Standing Committee—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Discharged—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Senator Siewert</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Senator Steele-John for 7 March 2018</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Appointed—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Senator Steele-John until 6 March 2018</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Senator Siewert for 7 March 2018</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Senator Steele-John from 8 March 2018</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Publications—Standing Committee—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Appointed—Senator Keneally</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport Legislation Committee—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Appointed—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Senator Keneally</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Participating member: Senator Anning</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport References Committee—</para></quote>
<para>Appointed—</para>
<para>Senator Keneally</para>
<quote><para class="block">Treaties—Joint Standing Committee—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Appointed—Senator Keneally</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BILLS</title>
        <page.no>34</page.no>
        <type>BILLS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Treasury Laws Amendment (Junior Minerals Exploration Incentive) Bill 2017</title>
          <page.no>34</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" style="" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" background="">
            <a href="r5996" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Treasury Laws Amendment (Junior Minerals Exploration Incentive) Bill 2017</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>First Reading</title>
            <page.no>34</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:13</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McGRATH</name>
    <name.id>217241</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill may proceed without formalities and be now read a first time.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a first time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>34</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:13</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McGRATH</name>
    <name.id>217241</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill be now read a second time.</para></quote>
<para>I seek leave to have the second reading speech incorporated in <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline>.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">The speech read as follows—</inline></para>
<quote><para class="block">The Treasury Laws Amendment (Junior Minerals Exploration Incentive) Bill 2017 will amend the tax law to replace the former Exploration Development Incentive with the Junior Minerals Exploration Incentive.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government is focused on promoting investment and driving economic activity. Ongoing exploration and the discovery of new mineral resources are vital to the longer term future of the resources sector. This tax incentive will encourage junior explorers to take risks and to have a go at discovering the next large-scale mineral deposit. We want to back small businesses.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Government is working to get the economic fundamentals right to build a strong prosperous Australia, improve the business climate and unleash our economic potential. We are creating a stable platform for investor confidence and growth.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This new incentive entitles Australian resident investors in small minerals exploration companies to a refundable tax offset (or where the investor is a corporate tax entity, additional franking credits) if the company in which they have invested issues them an exploration credit.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The ability of an exploration company to give up their tax losses to distribute credits to investors as a tax offset will make investing in a junior explorer more attractive.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Despite good prospects, Australia has not had a world-class minerals discovery in more than 20 years. Expenditure on greenfields exploration has declined by almost 70 per cent over the past five years to 2015-16. This incentive will make it more financially attractive for our mineral explorers to find resources in untapped regions, continuing discovery of quality resources. It builds on the EDI which ceased in 2016‑17, and aims to improve on the timeliness of the offset and target new investors that participate in new capital raisings. This will help maximise the incentive for additional investment in minerals exploration.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Not only does the extraction and sale of minerals resources make a significant contribution to the Australian economy, it also creates jobs and supports local businesses in regional communities across Australia.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Greenfield minerals exploration is essential to ensuring an investment pipeline to support the future strength of the Australian resources sector. However, these exploration companies can find it difficult to raise the capital they need to explore. A $100 million tax incentive over four years, starting in 2017-18, will make this easier.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Companies can obtain an allocation of credits by applying electronically to the Commissioner of Taxation. Credits will be allocated on a first come, first served basis, until the annual cap is reached, with any unallocated credits carried forward to the next year of the scheme.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The new process will be faster than the EDI as small exploration companies will know with certainty upfront how many credits they have been allocated before they undertake their capital raising to fund their exploration activities.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">To ensure that the benefits of the incentive are widely distributed, there is a cap on the amount of credits that may be allocated to an entity of 5 per cent of the total amount available for each year.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">As part of introducing the new incentive, the excess exploration credit tax will apply to ensure minerals explorers seek to create and issue exploration credits only in circumstances in which they are entitled to.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Full details of the measure are contained in the explanatory memorandum.</para></quote>
<para>Debate adjourned.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Social Services Legislation Amendment (Cashless Debit Card) Bill 2017</title>
          <page.no>35</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
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            <a href="r5939" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Social Services Legislation Amendment (Cashless Debit Card) Bill 2017</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Returned from the House of Representatives</title>
            <page.no>35</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo></subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Great Barrier Reef Marine Park Amendment (Authority Governance and Other Matters) Bill 2017, Treasury Laws Amendment (Putting Consumers First—Establishment of the Australian Financial Complaints Authority) Bill 2017</title>
          <page.no>35</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
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            <p>
              <a href="s1110" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Great Barrier Reef Marine Park Amendment (Authority Governance and Other Matters) Bill 2017</span>
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              </a>
            </p>
            <a href="s1093" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Treasury Laws Amendment (Putting Consumers First—Establishment of the Australian Financial Complaints Authority) Bill 2017</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Returned from the House of Representatives</title>
            <page.no>35</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo></subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Migration Amendment (Skilling Australians Fund) Bill 2018, Migration (Skilling Australians Fund) Charges Bill 2017</title>
          <page.no>35</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" style="" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" background="">
            <p>
              <a href="r5999" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Migration Amendment (Skilling Australians Fund) Bill 2018</span>
                </p>
              </a>
            </p>
            <a href="r5998" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Migration (Skilling Australians Fund) Charges Bill 2017</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>35</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:16</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'NEILL</name>
    <name.id>140651</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>We are absolutely committed to making sure that Australians get a fair go when it comes to getting access to the type of education they need to participate fully in the economy.</para>
<para>The Migration Amendment (Skilling Australians Fund) Bill 2018 amends the Migration Act 1958. It endeavours to provide a framework that will collect an additional levy, the nomination training contribution charge, which will come from employers who are accessing workers under the temporary and permanent employer sponsored migration programs. Fundamentally, gathering a training contribution charge from employers who benefit from training is not, in essence, a bad idea, and Labor support that notionally. However, there are a number of amendments that Labor have referred to the Senate Education and Employment References Committee for inquiry because we are very concerned about the expressions of great mistrust about what is being enacted in this legislation by the government.</para>
<para>Stakeholders have had a lot to say about this. Before the debate was interrupted at 11.45, I was quoting Professor Peter Noonan, from the Mitchell Institute for health and education policy. He was talking about the cyclical nature of funding that is proposed by the government. He clearly indicated that it was countercyclical to the purpose for which it was established. Other key stakeholders who indicated they had great concerns included the Law Council of Australia. The concern they raised was that, should the number of skilled migrants decrease due to the levy, so would the funding; if less funding for training and vocational education is provided to Australian and permanent residents, the demand for overseas labour may increase.</para>
<para>The Law Council suggests that the levy should not provide the only source of revenue for the fund. There's a good reason for that, because the vulnerability to these sorts of variations in funding that are proposed by this legislation before us mean that organisations that do want to provide quality education, that are prepared to invest in buying the necessary machinery—particularly the heavy machinery that is required for much of the training—can't do that. They can't do that on a wing and a prayer; they can't do it at the whim of a government or at the whim of a labour market—and I'll have more to say about labour markets as we go forward. That would have such a fluctuating effect on funding as to provide incredible instability for the sector.</para>
<para>Other concerns were raised by the National Apprentice Employment Network. This is the organisation that represents group training companies right across the country. Group training companies have significant knowledge about the impact of this proposed legislation, because they are invested in the lives of up to 10 per cent of the apprentices across this country. That organisation said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The VET sector should never be in a position where the best it can do to ensure sustainable funding for apprentices, going forward is to encourage increased skilled migrant employment.</para></quote>
<para>The concerns of the Victorian TAFE Association were:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… the levels of funding provided should first and foremost be driven not by the amount of money raised by migration charges but by the level required to train and educate Australians that maximises their contribution to Australia’s economic success, future productivity and growth.</para></quote>
<para>We're not talking about small concerns here. We want to be able to provide stable, adequate funding for high-quality training and education through a technical and further education system. It was once the mighty TAFE system, now so much degraded by failure to look after that sector or to fund it properly. In the course of this federal government's entire governance of the country, they have indicated through their legislative program a step away from involvement in assuring our nation of an adequate supply of skilled labour.</para>
<para>It's always somebody else's responsibility when it comes to this government. They say that it's not their responsibility. In fact, in the seat of Robertson, where I live and of which I was proud to be the member in the period from 2010 to 2013, we've got the local member constantly telling everybody in the electorate that there's no responsibility; she has no responsibility for anything to do with TAFE and further training. Yet we see in this piece of legislation a fundamental change to the way that funding is going to be allocated to provide for training. This government is actually up to its eyeballs in this training situation, and the reality is that they're not doing a very good job for ordinary Australians. That's why it's good that people are paying attention to what's going on here, because it's the con that's often a part of what the government says.</para>
<para>These pieces of legislation are actually, typically, misrepresenting what they're doing. We've got the Migration Amendment (Skilling Australians Fund) Bill 2018 and the Migration (Skilling Australians Fund) Charges Bill 2017. What we're talking about is a cut to the funding and building insecurity into the funding of skilling Australians. That's what this bill is really about.</para>
<para>ACCI indicated that the federal government has sent a strong negative signal about their commitment to vocational training. I don't know about anybody else in this country, but I like to think that, if an electrician is coming to do work at my house, they're going to have careful and adequate training to make sure that they do a very good job. The great union that represents the electrical trades is none other than the Electrical Trades Union, the ETU. This is what they had to say. They called the government's proposal 'absurd'. They said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The budget of the fund needs to be guaranteed—</para></quote>
<para>They're referring to a fund that is provided to do training—</para>
<quote><para class="block">The budget of the fund needs to be guaranteed, consistent and decoupled from how much money is actually brought in by the levy. There needs to be a guarantee of funding to ensure there is adequate training and, obviously, the levy can be used to defray. We should not have a system where there is funding for training of Australian workers contingent upon the importation of temporary workers</para></quote>
<para>I think most Australians would absolutely agree with that.</para>
<para>I know that unions in this place are the whipping boy of this government; they're always out there saying what a bad job they do. The reality is that we have here evidence of unions presenting evidence to this committee, fighting for ordinary Australians who use the services, fighting for apprentices and fighting for workers in these trades. They understand that if funding for training in Australia is made insecure then we're going to have a big problem, and it won't just be confined to what happens in this chamber. It will reach into the homes of every single Australian right across this country.</para>
<para>The ACTU, if I can put this as the last comment from stakeholders, said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">It is our opinion that the VET funding model outlined in this proposal fundamentally fails to address the real weaknesses in our current VET system.</para></quote>
<para>I'm a senator for New South Wales and I like to talk about things that are relevant to New South Wales. But something happened in Victoria that I think we need to continue to get on the record. Many people in my electorate are very alarmed when I tell them this fact. The fact is that there were 10,000 students in the state of Victoria whose qualifications were so inadequate that the qualification they paid for and that they'd studied for was actually withdrawn. So there they are. They went to TAFE—well, it wasn't actually TAFE; it was dodgy VET providers who weren't maintaining the standards. These young people, predominantly, had finished what they thought was a course and got to the end of it. They were so poorly skilled, so unable to participate properly in the workforce, that everything that they'd invested of themselves, their time, all their travel, all their hopes—all of that—was dashed, for 10,000 people. So, if you mess with the VET sector and you get it wrong, the implications are very, very significant.</para>
<para>Sadly, this piece of legislation is another signature of a government that fails to listen to those who know and fails to act in response to the good warning that they've been giving about not doing the wrong thing. What's been going on with this piece of legislation in the last couple of days is also very, very important to note. The reality is that there were amendments that were put to the House yesterday, and, sadly, this government just used its numbers to push on through, and it is continuing to resist changing important parts of this piece of legislation.</para>
<para>The Turnbull government voted against a Labor amendment, which is a change to the bill to make it better—a Labor amendment to ensure that local workers are given the first opportunity to apply for a local job before an employer brings in an overseas worker. That's what our amendment was. It was to make sure that the government constructs legislation that gives Australians who live here, young people, middle-aged people and older people in the cities, in the regions and right across this country, local workers, the best chance to get a job before they bring in an overseas worker.</para>
<para>We know that our market can move, and sometimes we've got to bring in overseas workers, but we shouldn't be constructing a system that puts overseas workers ahead of proper training of young Australians, who are just asking for this government to take responsibility to give them a fair chance to do the learning that they want to do, to undertake the growth that they need to, so they can become a great worker in this country. Ultimately, many of those who do get a chance will go on, and they will become the small-business employers right across this country—great young people with a future, whom this government seems determined to separate from that future that I think is their right.</para>
<para>At the heart of what we are concerned about with regard to this legislation is a thing called labour market testing. What's that? What is labour market testing? We talk in these words around this place, but what does that actually mean to Australia? It means that, if you're an employer and you want to employ somebody, we want to test the market and say, 'Are there Australians out there who can do the jobs?' We should encourage Australian companies to employ Australian workers with fair and decent wages. That seems eminently reasonable to me. And that is what I think most Australians expect should be the case.</para>
<para>But market testing is something that the government want to muck around with. They want to change things. They want to change it up. They want to make it a whole lot more flexible. That takes away opportunities from Australians, and that's why we're very concerned about it.</para>
<para>Labour market testing, when it's done properly, puts local workers first by making employers prove that there are no experienced local workers available to do the job, before a skilled visa is made available. Labor's amendment to the Migration Amendment (Skilling Australians Fund) Bill 2018—the one that's being discussed here in the Senate today—if they'd agreed to it in the House yesterday, would have done some pretty important things. It would have required that jobs be advertised for a minimum of four weeks. That seems fair to me. It would have required that job advertising be targeted so that Australian citizens or Australian permanent residents would see it, rather than some smart person out there—or they think they're smart; I just think it's malicious—organising that the advertising goes to overseas workers instead of to Australian workers. That was what our amendment sought to fix. It was rejected by the government. They all voted en bloc against it.</para>
<para>Our amendment would see advertising set out any skills or experience required that are appropriate to the position, rather than creating unrealistic or unwarranted skills just so that you don't have to employ an Australian. This is what we have seen in too many of the sectors across this country. You might get somebody in from another country who absolutely wants to have a chance; they want to have a crack at life. That's fantastic, but what skills do they actually have?</para>
<para>Do they understand the type of job that they're taking on when they get here? Do they understand what fair wages, according to the Australian system, are?</para>
<para>What we've seen are unscrupulous employers. Some of you might remember the 7-Eleven situation where we've had a lot of young people, a lot of overseas workers, who've been paid as little as $7 an hour. That's bad for a whole lot of reasons. It's certainly bad for that person. It's unethical for that employer. In fact, it's against the law for that employer to do that. It also takes away job opportunities for young people to get in and learn and go on with their careers—young Australians who were born here. I can't understand why the government doesn't get that we need to make sure that advertising is realistic about the skills that it's advertising for and makes sure that it gives Australians an opportunity.</para>
<para>Labor's amendment yesterday, had it got up in the House, would have been to secure labour market testing that has to be conducted no more than four months before the nomination of a visa. So it has to be timely and connected. The government seems to be pretty well out there on its own, and it could respond to this in a much more positive way. The amendments in the House were supported by the Greens, Mr Wilkie and Mr Katter. I think that this government has the opportunity here today to do something much better than it has currently indicated is the case.</para>
<para>Instead of protecting labour market testing conditions in the legislation that we have before us, the Turnbull government expects Australian people to rely on Peter Dutton to do the right thing by local workers. This is what is of great concern to me. We know that Minister Dutton simply, in my view, cannot be relied on as the only person who is going to make a determination about a legislative instrument. He has proven time and time again that he cannot do the right thing. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:31</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Looking around the chamber, I don't think anyone else is seeking the call to make a contribution, so I thank colleagues for participating in the debate on the Migration Amendment (Skilling Australians Fund) Bill 2018.</para>
<para>As has been canvassed, the amendments to the Migration Act 1958 seek to introduce the nomination training contribution charge, known as the SAF levy. That's a critical element of reforms to sponsored skilled migration in this country, to ensure that Australian workers are given first priority for jobs in this country. Revenue from the SAF levy will be used to support the training of Australians. The government is committed to skilling Australians so they can get jobs at all levels and occupations across the economy.</para>
<para>The bill also amends the act so that the minister may determine the manner in which labour market testing must be conducted. This enhanced labour market testing will ensure that employers are providing Australians with the first opportunities for jobs before they seek to bring in a worker from overseas.</para>
<para>The bill also amends the act to formalise the current practice of accepting nominations for temporary overseas skilled workers by businesses that have applied to be a sponsor, or entered into negotiations for a labour agreement, rather than waiting for the outcome of that process.</para>
<para>This has been a cognate debate with the Migration (Skilling Australians Fund) Charges Bill, which is a complementary measure to the Migration Amendment (Skilling Australians Fund) Bill and amends the Migration Act to provide for the collection of the nomination training contribution charge.</para>
<para>The second bill provides that the amount of the SAF levy is the charge set in the regulations. The bill also provides that the SAF levy must not exceed the charge limit. In subsequent financial years, the charge limit will be indexed by reference to CPI. This charge limit provides flexibility for the Australian government to make increases to the SAF levy in future while providing certainty for business as to the limited scope for a potential increase.</para>
<para>The bill supports the training of Australians by providing the framework for charging the SAF levy for employers that utilise the sponsored skills migration programs. I commend the bills to my colleagues.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bills read a second time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>In Committee</title>
            <page.no>38</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:35</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>As I indicated in my speech in the second reading debate, there are some issues with these bills. One of the key issues is the lack of defined parameters on labour market testing, simply leaving it to ministerial discretion. Minister, could you advise whether any parameters have been determined by the minister in relation to labour market testing?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:36</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I am advised by the minister of the proposed settings, which I'll go through. The period of labour market testing is a minimum of 21 calendar days. The date of labour market testing is six months before lodgement, four months since redundancies. The number of advertisements is at least two. The method of advertising could take a number of formats, but should consist of at least two of the following: a national recruitment website, such as jobactive.gov.au; recruitment agencies; internal advertising, for intracompany transfers; business website or social media, of accredited sponsors; and national print media or radio. The required information in the advertisement is position title and description; salary, which is waived if the salary is higher than the high-income threshold; and company and recruitment agency—company name need not be disclosed if using a recruitment agency. Advertising language requirements are English; any other language is optional. The evidence requirements are copy of advertisements or equivalent evidence. The exemptions are: where a new nomination is required for an existing visa holder because of a change in business structure or pay; where labour market testing is not appropriate due to the nature of the position, such as sporting athletes, top talent chefs, eminent academics; and where an international trade obligation applies. That's the advice I have to hand.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:38</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thanks for that. Is there any chance you could table the document you just read from so we can have a quick look at it?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:38</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I'll seek to have that put in a form that can be tabled.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:39</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Any idea how long that would take?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:39</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>About 10 minutes or so, I'm advised.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:39</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I appreciate that. From my rough notes: as you went through quite a range of issues, you did talk about chefs. Why would chefs not be part of an advertisement for suitably qualified Australian workers?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:39</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I think the intention with that example is top international talent chefs. I think that's the context of that cited instance.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:39</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, who would make the determination if it's a top international chef? Would that be the minister? Would the company be seeking to put a proposal to the minister so that it's not included?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:40</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator, I'm advised it would be the decision-maker, which could be the minister or, if it had been delegated, someone in the department.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:40</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>What I'm asking is: how would the minister make such a determination? Somebody would have to advise the minister, surely, that they are seeking an exemption from the bill as it stands.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:40</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>This might assist, Senator. I am referring to section 8, headed 'Application of sections 6 and 7'. 'Sections 6 and 7 do not apply to the following nominated positions: (a) a position in relation to which the nominee has an internationally recognised record of exceptional and outstanding achievement in (1) a profession; or (2) a sport; or (3) the arts; or (4) academia and research.'</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:41</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The minister having discretion is Minister Dutton. Is that correct?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:41</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister Dutton.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:41</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Given Minister Dutton's past performance as recently as, I think, last week, when he made some really disparaging remarks to workers in the gallery—I think he got himself confused, as he normally seems to be, about what area these workers came from—how can we be assured that workers in a certain area of the labour market won't be discriminated against because of the bias of the minister?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:42</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I do not believe that the minister exercises bias in his administrative decision-making.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:42</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>How can we be assured of that, given the statements he made to workers who were members of the CFMEU mining division? He got them mixed up with, I assume, workers in the construction division, so he has got a bias against certain workers in certain industries. You're saying that he would, when exercising his discretion, not exercise it in a biased way. Wouldn't that then mean that there should be regulations applying to it and the exercise of discretion should be removed from a who that has shown such bias?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:43</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>As I said before, I do not believe that the minister exercises bias in the performance of his administrative duties.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:44</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I suppose we will have to agree to disagree on that position. Given that the minister has discretion, what areas of discretion could he exercise in relation to an employer seeking to bring in skilled workers?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:44</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>There are a range of measures on which the minister would need to be satisfied. I will grab those for you shortly.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:45</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>While you're getting that advice, I'll ask: I think in your remarks you indicated that one of the parameters was to advertise for 21 days. Will that be included in every instrument and for every time an employer needs to advertise?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:45</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I'm advised that it can be. I'm seeking further advice as to whether that will be the case in each instance, but I'm being advised that, yes, it will be.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:46</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I don't have the document that you've read from, so I'm just going from memory on this; I might have to come back to this when I get the document before me. I think you also indicated—was it six months before lodgement?</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Fifield</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Six months before lodgement.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Will that be consistent or can that be amended by the minister exercising discretion?</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:46</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The intention is to make that six months by way of an instrument but, I guess, as a statement of logic, instruments can be changed or replaced.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:46</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>That leaves an opportunity for different ministerial discretion for different areas. Why wouldn't there be a standardised inclusion within the bill? Is there any reason why these points that you read out were not included in the bill to give people an understanding of how it would work?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:47</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>There's no intention to have an instrument that varies from the six months, but, as is common with a range of legislation, elements of detail are often put in place by way of regulation rather than in the primary legislation.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:48</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, could you outline any areas where the labour market testing may not operate?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:48</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I did in my earlier contribution cite an example being where an international trade obligation applies.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:48</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Could you now outline where those international obligations apply and what countries would be exempt under those obligations?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:48</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator, I will endeavour to get that for you.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:48</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Do you have any idea how many workers are coming into the country under the various so-called free trade agreements—they are actually bilateral preferential trade agreements; is that correct? They are actually bilateral preferential agreements, not free trade agreements?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:49</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator, I think that's going beyond the knowledge that the officers have to hand at the moment, but we will seek that for you.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:49</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>You're going to provide the details. Let's just take the China bilateral agreement. I've got to say that I'm surprised that anyone associated with the minister's department is unaware of the difference between a 'real' free trade agreement and a bilateral preferential agreement. I think it's clear that these are bilateral preferential trade agreements. You'll confirm that, I hope.</para>
<para>So let's take one of the bilateral preferential trade agreements: say, China. In what areas would a company be able to bring in, say, Chinese mechanical or electrical tradespeople without having any need for labour market testing?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:51</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Obviously, these matters depend on the provisions of each free trade agreement. I don't believe that we have a compendium of all of those here in this place at the moment.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:51</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>What I'm trying to establish is, firstly, how robust would any labour market testing be, given that it is a matter of discretion for the minister? And, secondly: how many overseas workers can come in without having to go through labour market testing? If a mining company in Western Australia, in the resources sector, wanted to use a Chinese company to build an extension to the mine, would that be covered by labour market testing?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:52</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>That would depend on the particular circumstances and the particular occupations. I can't speak in detail to a hypothetical because these things are determined on the basis of specific real-world instances.</para>
<para>Senator, while I'm on my feet, I might just touch on your question earlier about the discretionary criteria that the minister may take into account. They include skills and experience, English, evidence of meeting a specified test and being a genuine temporary entrant. Those discretionary criteria are the ones which have been advised to me, but, obviously, if you have any further follow-up questions, please do so.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:53</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Yes: what's the definition of a 'genuine temporary migrant'?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:54</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I can seek further and better particulars on that, but those discretions are related to the visa and not part of this bill. Nevertheless, I will seek that for you in an endeavour to be as helpful as I can.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:54</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thanks, Minister. In the context of ministerial discretion, that could vary from minister to minister if the minister changed, couldn't it?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:54</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Well, it would be the same act and the same provisions that a minister, regardless of who they were, would need to be satisfied about.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:55</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Can I give you not a hypothetical example but a real example. If a Chinese corporation established a subsidiary in Australia and made a bid to build the inland rail, would those workers be subject to labour market testing?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:55</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Those assessments would need to be made on the basis of particular occupations and particular propositions. I, as a minister speaking to this bill, would not want to pass a determination, because ultimately they're matters for the relevant minister to do on the basis of the evidence before him or her.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:56</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>But, Minister, this is not up to the minister. It's certainly not up to the minister. Your government and you have spoken of these issues in this chamber on the so-called free trade agreements. It's not on what occupations come in, is it? It's wider than that.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:56</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Sorry, Senator; I was speaking in the general in relation to ministerial determinations and not specifically in relation to the free trade agreement exemptions. But obviously, in that case too, there need to be assessments on the basis of the facts.</para>
<para>While I'm on my feet—through you, Chair—I have what you've sought to be tabled by way of labour market testing, which is these multiple copies. I have that to table. I can have a copy also passed immediately to you in parallel with it being tabled, Senator.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:57</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, can I then draw your attention to article 10.4, 'Grant of Temporary Entry', under the China Free Trade Agreement. I will take you to subparagraph (3) in that agreement. It says:</para>
<quote><para class="block">In respect of the specific commitments on temporary entry in this Chapter, unless otherwise specified in Annex 10-A, neither Party shall:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) impose or maintain any limitations on the total number of visas to be granted to natural persons of the other Party; or</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) require labour market testing, economic needs testing or other procedures of similar effect as a condition for temporary entry.</para></quote>
<para>So, when you say it's based on the facts and it's based on the classification, it's not correct, is it?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:58</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I take at face value you quoting from the relevant document of the free trade agreement, but, when speaking to the specific interaction of that with what is before us, I wouldn't seek to speak with great specificity without receiving advice from the department.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:59</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Is the department here? Surely the—</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:59</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Through you, Chair: the department is endeavouring, as we speak, to provide some further advice.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:00</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Okay, so that's for temporary entry. I now take you to 'Article 10.4: Grant of Temporary Entry'. It's on page 113 of the China-Australia so-called free trade agreement. It says:</para>
<quote><para class="block">In respect of the specific commitments on temporary entry in this Chapter, unless otherwise specified in Annex 10-A, neither Party shall:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) impose or maintain any limitations on the total number of visas to be granted to natural persons of the other Party; or</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) require labour market testing, economic needs testing or other procedures of similar effect as a condition for temporary entry.</para></quote>
<para>So the minister would not be applying any discretion to Chinese tradespeople entering the country in this context, would he?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:01</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator, I will seek advice.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:01</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>If I can now take you to 'Annex 10-A: Specific Commitments on the Movement of Natural Persons'. This goes to business visitors of China. Would they be subject to any labour market testing?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:01</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator, did you say 'visitors' or 'business'—</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:01</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I'm happy to clarify. It's business visitors of China.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:02</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I'm advised that, no, it is only temporary skilled migrants.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:02</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>So now I will go to 'Intra-Corporate Transferees of China'. This is not a hypothetical; this could be the Inland Rail that Minister Joyce keeps telling us will be built. If there is an 'employee of an enterprise of China established in Australia through a branch, subsidiary or affiliate which is lawfully and actively operating in Australia', they can fill a position in the branch, subsidiary or affiliate of the enterprise in Australia. Then it goes through (a), (b) and (c). In (b) it talks about:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… a specialist, who is a natural person with advanced trade, technical or professional skills and experience who must be assessed as having the necessary qualifications, or alternative credentials accepted as meeting Australia's standards, for that occupation, and who must have been employed by the employer for not less than two years immediately preceding the date of the application for temporary entry.</para></quote>
<para>This is part of the intracorporate transfer. Could you just confirm this: if a Chinese company establishes a subsidiary or affiliate in Australia and then brings skilled trade, technical or professional people in, they would not be subject to labour market testing?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:03</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Trade agreements, as colleagues would know, are a matter for DFAT. Trade agreements provide for commitments with respect to categories of entrant such as the intracorporate transferees that Senator Cameron referred to. Whether a visa applicant falls within scope of a commitment would depend on their individual circumstances.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:04</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>So, really, labour market testing is limited, and limited by the terms of these so-called free trade agreements. This is clause 9, under the heading 'Contractual Service Suppliers of China':</para>
<quote><para class="block">Entry and temporary stay shall be granted to contractual service suppliers of China for a period of up to four years, with the possibility of further stay.</para></quote>
<para>If you were building the inland rail, or you were a Chinese company which is a contractual service supplier providing equipment for a new mine, you could come in for up to four years with no labour market testing. Is that correct?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:05</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I guess that all I can add to what I said before is that whether a visa applicant falls within the scope of the commitment will depend on their individual circumstances.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:06</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Well, this is the second time you've said that it depends on their individual circumstances. It doesn't depend on that individual's circumstances; it depends on the terms of the China-Australia Free Trade Agreement. And the China-Australia Free Trade Agreement means that any labour market testing would be redundant in the context of a Chinese company using a subsidiary to build the inland rail, or of a Chinese company or subsidiary building an extension to a mine or installing equipment, because the agreement says 'installers and servicers of China'. Subclause 12 says:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Entry and temporary stay shall be granted to installers and servicers of China for a period of up to three months.</para></quote>
<para>So if one of Gina Rinehart's companies engages a company from China to install mining equipment, then there would be no labour market testing. Those installers could come in for a period of three months to install or service the machinery and equipment without any labour market testing. Is that correct?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:07</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thanks, Senator Cameron. When I was talking earlier about individual circumstances, I was speaking in the context of individual circumstances determining whether a visa applicant falls within the scope of the matters that we have been discussing in relation to the free trade agreement. I just observe in passing that both the Liberals and Labor, when in government, have signed free trade agreements where there are exemptions in certain circumstances.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:08</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thanks, Minister. Have you now had advice as to which other countries would be provided labour access without any labour market testing under the basis of bilateral trade agreements?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:09</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>We're just seeking to get the legislative instrument that lays these things out.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:09</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Is it a legislative instrument, Minister? Or is it an agreement?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:09</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I'm advised that there is a legislative instrument, Senator, that lays these things out.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:09</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Before we go back to this issue—because you're going to get me some more details—the tabled document has the heading 'Proposed Policy Settings for Labour Market Testing'. These are not guaranteed labour-market-testing provisions, are they?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:09</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>This is what the minister has agreed to put into effect by way of legislative instruments.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:10</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Are there any proposed policy settings to ensure job advertisements don't list unwarranted or excessive skills and experience?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:10</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>It's not the intention that that will be what is permitted.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:10</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>If it's not the intention, how can you assure the opposition that you won't have a company doing what other companies have done in the past, and that is to advertise unrealistic expectations so that the labour-market-testing requirements can't be met by local workers—for instance, listing a bachelor's degree for a construction position? How do you stop that happening?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:11</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The decision-maker needs to be satisfied that those in question are operating in accord with the instrument.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:11</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>That's the exact point I'm making. When we're talking about operating in accord with the instrument, you could operate in accord with the instrument but list unwarranted or excessive skills and experience as the requirement. What can be done in the labour-market-testing area to stop that happening?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:12</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>There will be guidance for decision-makers to mitigate that possibility.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:12</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Maybe you could ask the officers here from the department whether that has been done. If that has been done, can you table those guidelines?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:12</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>There are existing guidelines, which we can certainly provide.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:12</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Could you outline what those guidelines are? You have the officers here.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:12</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>They are procedural guidelines for assessing visa applications. We will obtain a copy of those for you.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:13</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thanks, Minister. The proposed policy settings state that an exemption applies 'where labour market testing is not appropriate due to the nature of the position'. But it provides no further details, other than some examples. Are there any safeguards associated with this exemption?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:13</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Obviously, the instrument itself will provide further detail and there will be policy that expands upon this which will inform the drafting of that.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:14</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>But surely, if you are asking for support for this bill, these are legitimate questions that really demand an answer before you would be expecting senators to sign off. So can you get some more information on it?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:14</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I did touch before on some of the provisions in the legislation, which say that sections 6 and 7 do not apply to the following nominated positions: '(a) a position in relation to which the nominee has an internationally recognised record of exceptional and outstanding achievement in a profession, a sport, the arts, or academia and research'. We do have that laid out in the legislation, but there will be further detail in the instruments.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:15</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Are you saying that we can get those details prior to these bills being voted on, or are we supposed to take it that they will be done after the bills have been passed?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:15</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The department will be working those instruments up. We are in the position we often are in with legislation where there will be instruments given effect to under the bills—that the instruments come subsequent to the legislation itself.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:16</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Can I just take you to the document that you tabled. It has a heading, 'Setting,' and then another heading, 'Proposed'. We have discussed the period of labour market testing. How did you come to the decision of 21 calendar days?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:16</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The department did engage in extensive stakeholder consultation and, as a result of that consultation, the minister has decided that that period of time is what's appropriate. While I'm again on my feet, I might just table the 'Migration determination of international trade obligations relating to labour market testing instrument 2017', which is a draft, which I'm happy to provide. We have only one copy, so I'll table that and you'll have it shortly, Senator.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:17</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, you indicated there was stakeholder consultation. Who was consulted?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:18</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>We have a list, Senator, and we'll provide that very shortly.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:18</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>While we're waiting for 'very shortly', was the ACTU or individual trade unions consulted?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:18</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Individual trade unions were, but whether the ACTU was, I will double-check.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:18</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Given that we're narrowing it down a little bit, who were the individual trade unions that were consulted?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:18</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>We're getting that, Senator, along with the other organisations that were consulted.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:18</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>While we're waiting for that, can I now take you to the issue that says 'number of advertisements'. You say 'at least two'. It refers to 'The method of advertising'. It says, 'This could take a number of formats that should consist of at least two of the following'. So you've got to pick two of the five that are indicated in the document. What other formats in addition to this are you looking at?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:19</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>There aren't other formats that are being looked at. These are the five, and two can be picked or all could be picked.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:19</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Just so I'm clear, when you talk about how this could take a number of formats, it can only be any combination of two of the five?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:20</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator, thank you for giving me the opportunity to clarify. It could include other formats, but it needs to include at least two of these listed. There aren't at the moment other formats being looked at to be added to the list out of which you need to have at least two. There could be other formats, but you do need to choose at least two of these five.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:20</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>So this is not a definitive list; there could be other formats. When you talk about formats—sorry to do this to you, Senator, because I know this is not your area, but I really need to try to get some idea of this. Maybe the advisers could tell you why they needed to say that a number of additional formats, as you've just explained, could be there. Why do you need additional formats? Can you give me any idea of what these formats could look like?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:21</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Wearing my Minister for Communications hat, we can't necessarily conceive today of what new formats there might be tomorrow. So this is recognising that there will be other formats. There are, no doubt, other formats at the moment, but at least two of those listed will need to be included. I will see if there are any other particular formats that the department have in mind that currently exist.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:22</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I appreciate that, because I'm just trying to think about what the other formats could be and why you would need to leave this open and, again, lack a definitive approach on this. So it would be good if you could come back to me on that—what other formats you are considering. Let's forget the other formats at the moment, because you don't know what they are. You could have a national recruitment website or national print media and radio—that could be one aspect—but, as I read this, you could have a recruitment agency advertising and you could combine that with internal advertising for intracompany transfers. Does that satisfy the labour market testing?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:23</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator, it would.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:23</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Say a recruitment agency could be an agency newly established, with very limited reach, and the company may advertise internally. You could have, say, workers in Ballarat and a company in Ballarat, but that company would not even be advertising in print in Ballarat. So the recruitment agency that some workers would not even know existed could advertise and the company could do internal advertising, and that's it. Is that seriously the position?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:24</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Well, it would go to the evidence that's provided to the decision-maker, who would need to be satisfied that this was genuine.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:24</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, it can be genuine. You can genuinely advertise with a recruitment agency with limited reach, and you can genuinely advertise internally, and a boilermaker, a fitter or an electrician in Ballarat would maybe have no chance—absolutely no chance—of knowing that there was a vacancy. Isn't that correct?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:25</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The decision-maker has to be satisfied that there isn't a suitably qualified Australian, and the decision-maker assesses the evidence.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:25</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The decision-maker being the minister?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:25</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Being the minister or the delegate.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:25</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>And who would be the delegate? Who would be an authorised delegate?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:25</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>It would be the appropriate departmental officers who had the delegation. I can seek further information about that, but that's all I'm able to assist you with at the moment.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:26</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>So a bureaucrat—sorry, I withdraw that. A public servant in Canberra could make a decision in relation to a company having satisfied these methods for a business in Western Australia or Ballarat. Is that correct?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:26</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I'm advised that the decision-makers are not all located in Canberra. But the decision-makers will have guidance, and they will have to be satisfied as to the evidence that there isn't a suitably qualified Australian.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:27</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I don't know how they do it, Minister! Is there an operating manual or a procedural manual to guide these officers?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:27</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I've already undertaken that we will get for you a copy of the current guidance.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:27</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I appreciate that, Minister. If you're going to provide the operating manual or procedures manual, that's good. What would happen if the company advertises internally and the recruitment agency is not a national recruitment agency? Is that satisfactory? Does that satisfy labour market testing?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:28</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The decision-maker would need to be satisfied that the appropriate steps had been taken and evidence provided to the decision-maker to that effect.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:29</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>That's fine, Minister. Thanks for that. But I certainly think that using a recruitment agency with limited reach, and doing internal advertising with very limited reach, is a real problem. What accredited sponsors would be able to use social media or their business's website?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:29</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Sorry, Senator, I just missed the first part of that. Who would be—</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:29</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>On the method of advertising, it's got 'the business's website or social media for accredited sponsors'. What is an 'accredited sponsor', and are there accredited sponsors now?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:30</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>There are currently accredited sponsors, and there are guidelines that they need to meet in order to be accredited. I'm assuming that you will want those, so we will get those for you.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:30</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thanks, Minister. I appreciate that. When the business uses social media, could that be a single tweet? Could that be a Facebook post that goes up for one minute? As Senator Molan knows, Facebook posts can go up and come down—and can disappear, Senator Molan! We know all about Facebook posts. So what's the situation there?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:31</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I'll hazard a guess that a single tweet would not satisfy the requirement for social media. The decision-maker does need to be satisfied that the steps are genuine and that the market has been tested.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:32</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, will you update these methods once it's been determined that you're going to have a different approach? And will the procedures manual be updated once these proposed policy settings come into effect?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:32</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Those sorts of guidance, those sorts of manuals, are continually updated, and they will be further updated.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:32</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thanks, and I appreciate that you've given an undertaking to provide that information, Minister. On the issue of the funding that this will generate, the Business Council of Australia, ACCI and most of the witnesses at the inquiry were very sceptical about the capacity for this fund to deliver sufficient funding. When questions were asked by me at the inquiry, I was told that what was guaranteed was the method of funding but not the quantum. Is that still the situation?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:33</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The method is guaranteed, and the quantums that are expected are on the best advice of relevant agencies.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:34</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>What was the methodology used by the agencies to determine that that funding could be achieved?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:34</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The estimates in the budget papers on funding raised by the levy were developed through the normal budget process, and the government has confidence in the estimates, but your question goes more specifically to methodology. If there's anything that I can provide to that end, I will do so.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:34</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The budget papers I have show figures for income over the forward estimates. If, as happens in many areas of the budget, there is a significant shortfall—not at the margins but a significant shortfall—does the government guarantee the VET system in this country will continue to be funded, consistent with the budget paper forward estimates?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:35</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The government has laid out what it expects to be the case in the budget. In terms of the expenditures themselves, that goes to a different portfolio to the one that's represented here. But, as I said, we have laid out in the budget what we anticipate.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:36</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>If state governments commit to bilaterals in relation to this, can they be guaranteed that the funding will be provided through bilaterals to the states? I will just clarify that: that the funding equivalent of the budget is available?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:36</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Those bilaterals are still being negotiated. That is occurring in another portfolio, but, if we can add anything, we will.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:37</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The portfolio here is migration, is it? Given that this is the migration portfolio, I did ask about the methodology. Could you give me some idea before we move on as to how the outcome of the funding envelope in the forward estimates was calculated?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:37</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>It was calculated through the budget process, with the agreement of the relevant central agencies. I can't at this point add anything further to that.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:37</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I'll try again. If you want to negotiate bilaterals, surely the states and territories need some confidence that, if they are committing funding, the government can provide the funding in the forward estimates. You can't give me any guarantee on the budget paper forward estimates that the amount year by year will be achieved or available, can you?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:38</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Laid out in the budget is what the government expects.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:38</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, you've been around long enough to know that what's laid out in the budget papers and what you expect don't materialise on many occasions. So that's a real concern.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:38</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Treasury are confident in their modelling.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:38</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>As a former member of the Economics Committee, I've heard Treasury being confident on many occasions on many issues and it not being delivered. We are now talking about the VET system, the system that makes this country competitive internationally, the system that lets us engage in international trade, and yet we are expected to accept that the Treasury has this right when they have on so many occasions gotten it wrong. Will the government provide an ironclad commitment to the funding that is outlined in the forward estimates?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:39</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The government is confident in the modelling, and what we anticipate on that basis is in the budget papers.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:39</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>If you're so confident, why won't you commit to the funding?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:40</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I've directly addressed your question.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:40</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Here we go again. This is a government that simply cannot be trusted. That's the problem: they can't be trusted. I seek leave to move amendments (1) and (2) on sheet 8372 together.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I move the amendments:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Schedule 1, page 8 (after line 10), after item 14, insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">14A At the end of subsection 140GBA(4)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Add "The period must not start earlier than 4 months before the nomination is received by the Minister.".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) Schedule 1, item 15, page 8 (after line 24), after subsection 140GBA(6), insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(6AA) The Minister must not make a determination under subsection(5) unless the Minister is reasonably satisfied that any advertising of the position undertaken in the determined manner:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) will be targeted in such a way that a significant proportion of suitably qualified and experienced Australian citizens or Australian permanent residents would be likely to be informed about the position; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) will set out any skills or experience requirements that are appropriate to the position.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(6AB) A duration determined for the purposes of paragraph (6) (d) must be at least 4 weeks.</para></quote>
<para>These amendments try to deal with the lack of certainty that has been expressed by business, the vocational education system, academics and states and territories around the country. These are designed to make sure, if we've got labour market testing, that the labour market testing is understood, that it is genuine and that those employers that want to bring in overseas workers properly test the local market. It's to make sure that there are no suitably qualified and experienced local workers readily available who cannot get access to the employment to fill the positions.</para>
<para>The bill doesn't legislate strict labour market testing. The government's bill asks Australians to trust the immigration minister. For anyone listening in, if you know the immigration minister, you should be very, very wary about that. It's also saying that the immigration minister will do the right thing. Watching the immigration minister in action, who would assume this minister would do the right thing in a legislative instrument? He has proved time and time again that he can't be trusted to do the right thing and protect labour market testing. This is a minister who actually attacks working people, and attacks them outrageously, from the coward's castle of the floor of the House of Representatives. When workers are sitting in the viewing areas of the chamber trying to see how this system is working, to see how parliament's working, Minister Dutton attacks them. It is absolutely outrageous.</para>
<para>The ACTU testified at the Senate inquiry into the bill:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… quite frankly, given the government's history on labour market testing, why would you trust this government to implement a serious regime of labour market testing? We just don't.</para></quote>
<para>The opposition leader, Mr Bill Shorten, introduced a private member's bill in 2016 to introduce more rigorous requirements for labour market testing to be incorporated into legislation or associated program guidelines. Labor's amendments that are before the Senate now would ensure that labour market testing is advertised for a minimum of four weeks, that it has been conducted no more than four months before the nomination of a worker on a skilled visa, and that it is targeted in such a way that a significant proportion of suitably qualified and experienced Australian citizens or Australian permanent residents would be likely to be informed about the position. And it would ensure that there are not unrealistic and unwarranted experience requirements for vacant positions with the effect of excluding otherwise suitable Australian applicants.</para>
<para>These are similar to the labour market testing requirements that Labor successfully fought for and included in amendments to the Building Code as part of the Building and Construction Industry (Improving Productivity) Bill 2013. For the crossbench, we are saying that the Senate has already adopted these types of safeguards for labour market testing. I call on the crossbench to ensure that in this bill we do the same thing as we did with the ABCC bill and make sure that Australian workers have access to the jobs and that they are not simply sent overseas, because it's easier for the employer to do so.</para>
<para>The Turnbull government has failed to protect penalty rates for 700,000 workers, and now it's failing to protect the first shot at local jobs for local workers. We will always fight for strict labour market testing that ensures local workers get the first shot at jobs. On that basis I call on and appeal to the Senate to be consistent with what the Senate did in the ABCC bill and protect Australian workers, because, as you've heard in the responses in this committee debate, there is a complete lack of clarity and credibility in what the government is proposing. It is absolutely essential, in my view, that the amendments we propose on sheet 8372 are adopted.</para>
<para>The CHAIR: The question is that amendments (1) and (2) on sheet 8372, as moved by Senator Cameron, be agreed to.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The committee divided. [13:51]<br />(The Chair—Senator Lines)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>38</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Bartlett, AJJ</name>
                  <name>Bilyk, CL</name>
                  <name>Brown, CL</name>
                  <name>Burston, B</name>
                  <name>Cameron, DN</name>
                  <name>Carr, KJ</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A</name>
                  <name>Collins, JMA</name>
                  <name>Di Natale, R</name>
                  <name>Dodson, P</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D</name>
                  <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                  <name>Georgiou, P</name>
                  <name>Griff, S</name>
                  <name>Hanson, P</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                  <name>Hinch, D</name>
                  <name>Keneally, KK</name>
                  <name>Ketter, CR (teller)</name>
                  <name>Kitching, K</name>
                  <name>Lines, S</name>
                  <name>Marshall, GM</name>
                  <name>Martin, S.L</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J</name>
                  <name>McKim, NJ</name>
                  <name>Moore, CM</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, DM</name>
                  <name>Patrick, RL</name>
                  <name>Polley, H</name>
                  <name>Pratt, LC</name>
                  <name>Rhiannon, L</name>
                  <name>Rice, J</name>
                  <name>Siewert, R</name>
                  <name>Singh, LM</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G</name>
                  <name>Watt, M</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>28</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Abetz, E</name>
                  <name>Anning, F</name>
                  <name>Bernardi, C</name>
                  <name>Birmingham, SJ</name>
                  <name>Brockman, S</name>
                  <name>Canavan, MJ</name>
                  <name>Cash, MC</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, DJ</name>
                  <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                  <name>Fifield, MP</name>
                  <name>Gichuhi, LM</name>
                  <name>Hume, J</name>
                  <name>Leyonhjelm, DE</name>
                  <name>Macdonald, ID</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                  <name>Molan, AJ</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, B</name>
                  <name>Paterson, J</name>
                  <name>Reynolds, L</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A</name>
                  <name>Ryan, SM</name>
                  <name>Scullion, NG</name>
                  <name>Seselja, Z</name>
                  <name>Smith, D (teller)</name>
                  <name>Williams, JR</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names></names>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:54</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ANNING</name>
    <name.id>273829</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move the amendment on sheet 8381:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Schedule 1, item 12, page 6 (after line 6), at the end of section 140ZM, add:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Exemption for small businesses</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) However, a person is not liable to pay nomination training contribution charge to the Commonwealth in relation to:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) a nomination by the person under section 140GB; or</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) an application for approval of a nomination of a position in relation to the holder of, or an applicant or proposed applicant for, a visa;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">if both of the following apply:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) the person carries on a business that in the financial year before the financial year in which the application or nomination is made had a turnover of less than $5 million;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(d) the application or nomination is made for the purposes of employing a person in connection with that business.</para></quote>
<para>Employment is always a concerning issue, and it's especially critical that we provide for our young people—</para>
<para>The CHAIR: Excuse me, Senator Anning. I just remind senators: we're back in session; you shouldn't be walking across the chamber. Please continue, Senator Anning.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ANNING</name>
    <name.id>273829</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Employment's always a concerning issue, and it's especially critical that we provide our young people with the many opportunities that are required to develop and prosper. The employment of 457 visa holders is a contentious issue, especially when it is perceived that foreigners are taking jobs from Australians.</para>
<para>I know this bill encourages businesses to employ Australian skilled workers. There is no distinction between skilled and unskilled visa holders and no distinction between small family operations and large multinationals. They both need to pay a levy. How is it a viable situation for a single mum running a coffee cart or, like me previously, a publican and small-business operator? We are slugged with a $1,200 fee while trying to staff the business.</para>
<para>I'll always support the business interests of Australians and our community first, and, in doing so, I've always tried to employ Australians to fill any vacancies. However, in some instances, trying to get Aussies to move out to Richmond in Far North Queensland or Prairie or even Babinda, south of Cairns, is more often than not a very hard ask. When I had a hotel in Gladstone, trying to—</para>
<para>The CHAIR: Senator Anning, would you resume your seat. Senators not participating in this debate, could you please leave the chamber and not walk across the chamber when the chamber is in session.</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ANNING</name>
    <name.id>273829</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>When I had a hotel in Gladstone, trying to get kitchen staff for $30 an hour was an impossible ask when a gas development on Curtis Island was paying $90 an hour for a similar position. You have to serve your customers somehow. In these cases, I had to employ 457 visa holders to fill the vacancies.</para>
<para>Under the government's proposal, small-business operators would be slugged with a $1,200 levy for each staff member employed under the 457 visa scheme. This is an unreasonable ask when, in a lot of cases, the bush hotels, the corner stores or the mums' coffee carts run on very slim margins. I will be supporting this bill. However, there needs to be a distinction made. As such, I propose an exemption for businesses with a turnover of less than $5 million per year. We need to ensure that, in the process of looking after some Australians, we are not making it harder for others.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:57</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Well, Senator Anning has nailed his flag to the mast. The only crossbencher who came over to that side and voted against the amendments, voted against the interests of Australian workers, then has the hide to stand up here and say that he is supporting Australian workers. You voted against Australian workers, Senator Anning.</para>
<para>We will not be supporting this amendment. We will not be supporting it, because you have got your values and principles in the wrong place on this issue. Hopefully, in the future, you will make up for it and not continually vote with a government that doesn't care about Australian workers, a government that cuts penalty rates, a government that wants to give $65 billion to big business while it's increasing tax on ordinary Australians. You've just got your priorities wrong on this one, Senator Anning, because—I'll tell you—if you continually vote with the government, you won't be here for long, because they are on their way out. They are a divided rabble of a government, a government that just can't concentrate on the issues of importance for Australian workers. They are an absolute rabble of a government. They don't care about Australian workers.</para>
<para>The CHAIR: Senator Cameron, resume your seat. Senator Whish-Wilson.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Whish-Wilson</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Cameron should be directing his comments to the chair. He's clearly intimidating Senator Anning.</para>
<para>The CHAIR: Thank you, Senator Whish-Wilson. I do remind you, Senator Cameron, to direct your remarks to the chair.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>And another stupid intervention from the Australian Greens, who turned Senator Molan into a victim—</para>
<para>The CHAIR: Senator Cameron!</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Molan into a victim—how dopey can you lot be?</para>
<para>The CHAIR: Senator Cameron, resume your seat! Senator Bernardi.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Bernardi</name>
    <name.id>G0D</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Just on a point of order, and in the interests of getting to question time without having to listen to too much more from Senator Cameron—</para>
<para>The CHAIR: Senator Bernardi, please get to your point of order.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Bernardi</name>
    <name.id>G0D</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I'd like you to reflect upon whether saying that Senator Whish-Wilson is stupid, which is what I think Senator Cameron just suggested, is appropriate.</para>
<para>The CHAIR: Senator Bernardi, I was listening carefully. Senator Cameron did not say that.</para>
<para>Progress reported.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE</title>
        <page.no>51</page.no>
        <type>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Payday Lending</title>
          <page.no>51</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:00</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator MARSHALL</name>
    <name.id>00AOP</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Treasurer, Senator Cormann. When asked about reports he had been enlisted by a group of government backbenchers known as the 'Parliamentary Friends of Payday Lending' to water down the Turnbull government's reforms to crack down on dodgy lenders, the Treasurer said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… the report is entirely false.</para></quote>
<para>Only a day later the member for Dawson, George Christensen, put his name to the backbench revolt. Does the Treasurer stand by his statement?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:01</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CORMANN</name>
    <name.id>HDA</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Marshall for that question, and the answer is yes.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Marshall, a supplementary question.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:01</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator MARSHALL</name>
    <name.id>00AOP</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Can the minister confirm that the member for Dawson is once again dictating the government's economic agenda and attempting to stand in the way of fair reforms that would better protect vulnerable Australians?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:01</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CORMANN</name>
    <name.id>HDA</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I reject the premise of the question. The government respects absolutely the right of every member and senator in this parliament to stand up for their constituents the way they see fit. The member for Dawson is a very energetic local representative for his community. He is entitled to represent the views of his community as he sees fit, but the government's policy position is very clear.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Marshall, a final supplementary question.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:01</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator MARSHALL</name>
    <name.id>00AOP</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Why is the Turnbull government again allowing reckless National Party members to dictate the government's agenda?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:02</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CORMANN</name>
    <name.id>HDA</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>This is what happens when a senator on the opposite side is handed a question by the tactics committee and then doesn't listen to the answer. If Senator Marshall had actually listened to the answer, he would have known and he would have understood that I confirmed that the government's policy position remains the same, that there hasn't been any change, and, as such, I completely and utterly reject the premise of the question which, quite frankly, he shouldn't even have asked.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Employment</title>
          <page.no>51</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:02</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BUSHBY</name>
    <name.id>HLL</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister for Jobs and Innovation, Senator Cash. Can the minister update the Senate about the recent ABS labour force figures that were announced today?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:03</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CASH</name>
    <name.id>I0M</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Yes, I can. Colleagues, you will recall that when we were elected to govern in September 2013 we said to the Australian people that we would be a job-creating government. Well, jump forward to 2018, and guess what? We are delivering on that commitment.</para>
<para>I'm pleased to advise senators that 2017 was the best year for jobs growth since records began in 1978. On this side of the chamber, we created in excess of 400,000 jobs. Colleagues, 300,000 of those jobs were full-time jobs. Let's compare that to the record of those on the other side in their last 12 months in government. Let's have a look. Well, in their last 12 months they created less than 90,000 jobs, and the economy went backwards in terms of full-time job creation.</para>
<para>I'm delighted to also inform the Senate that this growth is now continuing. The number of jobs in Australia has now increased for the 16th straight month. This is an Australian record. It has never happened before in Australia—the longest consecutive run of monthly jobs growth ever. Senator Bushby, you're from Tasmania. You might like to know that in Tasmania this month the unemployment rate has fallen to 5.3 per cent. You might also be very worried to know that, when Bill Shorten was employment minister, the unemployment rate in Tasmania was—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Abetz</name>
    <name.id>N26</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Eight point one.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CASH</name>
    <name.id>I0M</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>eight point one per cent, Senator Abetz. In coalition governments, Liberal governments, when we say we're committed to job creation, we do just that.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Bushby, a supplementary question.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:05</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BUSHBY</name>
    <name.id>HLL</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank the minister—fantastic news, particularly in my home state of Tasmania. What measures is the Turnbull government using to encourage job growth in our economy?</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Polley</name>
    <name.id>e5x</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>What about underemployment? We understand underemployment and what effect it has on WA.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Bilyk</name>
    <name.id>HZB</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>We know about the jobs you've created!</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Polley, Senator Bilyk, I'm going to insist on a semblance of order during the asking of questions.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Wong</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>At least a semblance.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>A semblance. It's Thursday.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:05</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CASH</name>
    <name.id>I0M</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>On this side of the chamber we understand these record figures do not happen by accident; they are the result of strong economic policies we put in place as a government. We are creating a strong economic framework and providing direct assistance to Australians looking for work. We're delivering personal tax cuts, and small and medium business tax cuts. We're delivering trade deals. Those trade deals result in more exports and more jobs. We have delivered record infrastructure and defence industry investment. Not only are we creating jobs but we're also focused on getting people off welfare and into work. All our policies are also directed towards doing that: the PaTH program for our youth, ParentsNext to assist young parents, and policies to assist the mature-aged. When we say that the best form of welfare is a job, we mean it.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Bushby, a final supplementary question.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:06</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BUSHBY</name>
    <name.id>HLL</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Is the minister aware of any threats to the Turnbull government's strong record on jobs growth?</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Kim Carr</name>
    <name.id>AW5</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Barnaby Joyce!</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Cameron</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Barnaby Joyce!</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Jacinta Collins</name>
    <name.id>GB6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Barnaby Joyce!</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order on my left! I'm not going to call the minister until I am able to hear her.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:07</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CASH (</name>
    <name.id>I0M</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>— ) ( ): Unfortunately the answer is very obvious. I think we all know what I'm going to say. It is those on the other side. Bill Shorten and the Labor Party are the biggest threat to Australian jobs. Instead of job creation—I think this is the latest policy they have dreamed up along with Sally McManus—they're complaining that Australian workers are not striking enough, and they want to change the laws to encourage more strike action. Guess what? That is not how you create jobs; that is how you close employers down. That's Labor's plan for jobs. That will not help any business in Australia grow. Those on the other side don't have one policy that would create a job, but they have plenty of policies that would close businesses down. On this side of the chamber we know that a business that has to close employs no-one.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Wong</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I have a point of order as to ministerial arrangements. The Prime Minister has just informed the House of who will be acting Prime Minister next week. I think, as a matter of courtesy, the government should inform the Senate.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>MINISTERIAL ARRANGEMENTS</title>
        <page.no>52</page.no>
        <type>MINISTERIAL ARRANGEMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:08</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CORMANN</name>
    <name.id>HDA</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Wong for this opportunity. I inform the Senate that the Prime Minister has asked me to act as Prime Minister on his behalf when he's overseas next week.</para>
</speech>
</debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DISTINGUISHED VISITORS</title>
        <page.no>52</page.no>
        <type>DISTINGUISHED VISITORS</type>
      </debateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:09</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I draw the attention of honourable senators to the presence in the gallery of a parliamentary delegation from Bangladesh, led by Dr Muhiuddin Khan Alamgir. On behalf of all senators, I wish you a warm welcome to Australia and in particular to the Senate.</para>
<para>Honourable senators: Hear, hear!</para>
</speech>
</debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE</title>
        <page.no>53</page.no>
        <type>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Deputy Prime Minister</title>
          <page.no>53</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:09</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Deputy Prime Minister, Senator Scullion. On Saturday <inline font-style="italic">The Australian</inline> reported that Mr Greg Maguire, described as a multimillionaire businessman who is an influential player in New England politics, had allowed the Deputy Prime Minister to live rent-free in his Armidale townhouse for six months, a gift valued at around $14,000. The Deputy Prime Minister has since described Mr Maguire as a mate. On how many occasions have agencies for which Deputy Prime Minister Joyce is responsible contracted Mr Maguire or his companies for the provision of goods and services?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:10</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SCULLION</name>
    <name.id>00AOM</name.id>
    <electorate>Northern Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Deputy Prime Minister has made significant statements on every matter, including some of the matters that have been asked by the leader of the opposition in this place. I am not aware of any of the matters that she has just asked me. Matters that are appropriate in relation to this portfolio matter I will take on notice.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Wong, a supplementary question.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:11</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Answers to questions on notice from Senate estimates made clear that an agency under the Deputy Prime Minister's administration made a payment of in excess of $5,000 of taxpayers' money to a business owned by the Deputy Prime Minister's so-called mate Mr Greg Maguire. Can the minister advise whose decision it was to engage Mr Maguire's business?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:11</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SCULLION</name>
    <name.id>00AOM</name.id>
    <electorate>Northern Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Again, I'll have to take that question on notice. I hope you understand why I wouldn't have that information to hand.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Wong, a final supplementary question.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:11</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Can the minister advise the Senate of the total value of contracts entered into by the Deputy Prime Minister, or his agencies, and businesses owned or operated by his so-called mate Mr Maguire? Can the minister advise if these contracts exceed the value of the $14,000 gift of rent-free accommodation Mr Maguire has provided to the Deputy Prime Minister?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:11</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SCULLION</name>
    <name.id>00AOM</name.id>
    <electorate>Northern Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The only thing I can confirm is that the so-called free accommodation was, in fact, declared as a gift in the proper way. On any other of these matters, I'm unaware of the answers, but I'll seek the advice of the Deputy Prime Minister's office.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Defence Industry</title>
          <page.no>53</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:12</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WHISH-WILSON</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Steven Bradbury of the Liberal Party, the soon to be Prime Minister, Senator Cormann, acting on behalf of the Minister for Defence. Minister, your government has just announced that it plans to grow Australia's weapons exports by 800 per cent in the next decade by throwing $4 billion of taxpayer money at its defence export strategy—a strategy that is wholly supported by the Labor Party. You said that you'll be targeting our weapons exports to our allies, to countries like the United Arab Emirates and to Saudi Arabia. Minister. You are no doubt aware that the Middle East is mired in strife, with intractable conflicts across the region. Are you concerned that financing the growth of Australian weapons into the Middle East will contribute to this instability? Are you going to, as Tony Abbott called it, sift the goodies from the baddies by only selling to the goodies, or are you happy to sell to both sides of these conflicts?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:13</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CORMANN</name>
    <name.id>HDA</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>It is true that, as a matter of national interest, the government is committed to supporting our defence industry as an internationally competitive industry. And we very much appreciate, in a bipartisan fashion, that that is an effort that is supported by both sides of politics, by the two major parties of government.</para>
<para>When it comes to the other more specific issues that Senator Whish-Wilson raises, Australia, of course, remains committed to its international arms controls obligations. Our international best practice defence export controls system remains unchanged. We are cognisant that the Middle East is a complex security and political environment. The Middle East is a large defence export market. There will be a range of future export opportunities that will benefit Australia across our different interests. Any defence export opportunities to the Middle East will continue to be considered and balanced under our rigorous export controls system to ensure they do not prejudice Australia's defence security and international relations priorities and are consistent with international obligations and commitments.</para>
<para>We do have the sophistication to pursue defence export success while meeting our international obligations and the expectations of the Australian public—if not, perhaps, the expectations of the Greens.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Whish-Wilson, on a point of order?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Whish-Wilson</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>On a point of order, President. I appreciate Senate Cormann is doing a lot of different jobs at the moment. My question was: does he think this will add to the instability in the region?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Whish-Wilson, your question had a lengthy preamble. The minister is being directly relevant to the terms of your question. Senator Cormann.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CORMANN</name>
    <name.id>HDA</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>To assist Senator Whish-Wilson even more directly: we believe that the risks that he's pointing to are well able to be managed, given the export controls in all of these systems and frameworks that are in place. We have, as I say, the sophistication to pursue a defence export success by meeting our international obligations and the expectations of the Australian public. While our defence industry offers goods and services across the capability spectrum, some of Australia's most successful defence exports are defensive in nature and save lives.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Whish-Wilson, a supplementary question.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:15</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WHISH-WILSON</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, I imagine that the Defence Export Strategy is a whole-of-government plan to be delivered across many agencies. Does your government plan to enlist the support of Australia's diplomatic service to spruik the sales of weapons into these war zones? Are we going to be losing experienced diplomats and swapping them for taxpayer-funded weapons dealers?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:16</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CORMANN</name>
    <name.id>HDA</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I object to the phrasing of that question. Of course, at all times the Australian government relies on all of the high-quality, world-class Public Service support across all of the areas of government to pursue Australia's national interest, and that's what we'll continue to do.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Whish-Wilson, a final supplementary question.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:16</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WHISH-WILSON</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>That is a yes, President. Minister, on the Efic Defence Export Facility website, it says that Efic will be providing 'buyer finance solutions'. Buyer finance doesn't mean loans to Australian companies; it means loans to foreign companies to buy our weapons. Are you worried that issuing buyer finance to foreign powers might be seen as financing conflicts, bloodshed and terror rather than just helping Australian companies sell to existing defence partners?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:16</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CORMANN</name>
    <name.id>HDA</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I don't share Senator Whish-Wilson's concerns. As I have indicated, Australia has got the sophistication required to pursue defence export success while also meeting all of our international obligations and all of the expectations of the Australian public, and that is the way that the Australian government intends to pursue these opportunities.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Deputy Prime Minister</title>
          <page.no>54</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:17</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister for Resources and Northern Australia, Senator Canavan. Earlier this week, the minister advised the Senate that his appointment of Deputy Prime Minister Joyce's former media advisor in his office was, and I quote, 'Approved through consultation between my office and the Deputy Prime Minister's office'. Who did the minister first discuss the appointment with and when? Who approved the appointment? And when was it approved?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:17</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CANAVAN</name>
    <name.id>245212</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>As I said earlier this week, appointments of my staff are always done through the standard procedures, and of course there is communication between officers on appointments. I cannot recall the first person who was spoken to in this case, but the appointment was made through standard procedures. In terms of timing, I can take those questions on notice.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>A supplementary question, Senator Farrell.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:18</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Given the minister's total number of personal staff increased from six to seven, was there a position vacant or was a role created for Deputy Prime Minister Joyce's former media advisor? What reason was the minister given for the need to transition the staffer from Deputy Prime Minister Joyce's office?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:18</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CANAVAN</name>
    <name.id>245212</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I believe that these matters were dealt with earlier in the week by Minister Cormann. The National Party is allocated a specific pool of staff. The appointment of Ms Campion to my office did not change the size of that pool. However, a position was relocated to my office. It was relocated to expand and improve the performance of the digital media content produced by my office.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Farrell, a final supplementary question.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:19</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Today, Senator McGrath told Sky News that Deputy Prime Minister Joyce's former media advisor was interviewed for the role in Senator Canavan's office. If interviews, in fact, did take place, how many other applicants were interviewed?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:19</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CANAVAN</name>
    <name.id>245212</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I can confirm that Ms Campion was interviewed for the role in my office on a number of occasions. Ms Campion was a well-credentialed, skilled and experienced applicant for the role. As is often the case with such appointments, Ms Campion was the only person interviewed for the role because she had the skills and experience. And she was well known, of course, given her previous experience for the National Party in this place.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Murray-Darling Basin</title>
          <page.no>55</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:20</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Minister for the Environment and Energy, Senator Birmingham. Last year, One Nation senators, including myself, travelled all four states right to the mouth of the Murray in South Australia to see firsthand the workings of our Murray River and to investigate the Murray-Darling Basin Plan. Last week I listened to Riverina irrigators, the Balonne Shire Council, the mayor of Charleville and Queensland farmers. People tell us that decisions on water plans are made without measurements of creek and river flows. Without knowing the quantities, water disappears into South Australia and into Lake Alexandrina, where it is wasted in evaporation and out the mouth.</para>
<para>The government is blowing $13 billion of taxpayers' money on the Murray-Darling Basin Plan without science and data. Will the minister please explain when the destitute people of Queensland, New South Wales and Victoria will be treated with the respect of informed decisions based on science and measured data?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:21</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Hanson for her question, which provides an opportunity to correct some of the misunderstandings that Senator Hanson clearly has, given the question that was asked.</para>
<para>Senator Hanson made the statement that water flowing out of the mouth of the river is wasted, whereas, in fact, all of the science would clearly indicate that water flowing out of the mouth of a river system is indeed important to the health of that river system, to the discharge of nutrients and to the overall quality of water within that system—and, of course, in terms of the native fish, wildlife et cetera throughout the river system.</para>
<para>The Murray-Darling Basin Plan has been based on and informed by extensive scientific research and analysis, as well as by extensive economic modelling and analysis, to seek to reach a position that has allowed us to develop a plan that ought to be implemented in full and that ought not to be politicised in this place. We developed a plan that allows us to have confidence that the entire Murray-Darling Basin will have as healthy a river system as possible for the long term. Whether it is through the northern basin, which is often disconnected to parts of the south in times of low inflows, or through the southern basin, we have confidence not only that are we extracting what is sustainable to grow our food, fibre and produce, and to sustain our farmers up and down the system, but that we are ensuring that it is sustainable, year in and year out, in terms of the allocation of water that is available by that to make sure that we have healthy river communities.</para>
<para>Sadly, the actions of the Senate last night put that plan in some jeopardy, and that jeopardises all of the river communities. It creates uncertainty for them up and down the length of the river system. Creating that uncertainty, of course, will harm investment and jobs. The best thing we can do is get the plan back on track.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Hanson, a supplementary question.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:23</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Well, okay, so then I want to know the impact of the Greens' disallowance motion, because I'm getting panicked calls from St George and Dirranbandi, who will share in the loss of another 70 gigalitres, or 28,000 Olympic swimming pools of water.</para>
<para class="italic">Senator Hanson-Young interjecting—</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Has a cost-benefit analysis been done, and what are the economic, employment and social impacts on Queensland, New South Wales and Victoria of this team of environmental home wreckers?</para>
<para class="italic">Senator Hanson-Young interjecting—</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para> Yes, I'm talking about the Greens, and Labor and the Bernardi team— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<para class="italic">Senator Hanson-Young interjecting—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! Senator Hanson-Young, I asked earlier that questions could be heard. Occasional interjection is one thing; a barrage of them during asking a question is entirely inappropriate and out of order.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:24</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I do concur, sadly, that a wrecking role was played by parties in the Senate last night around the Murray-Darling Basin Plan and in particular the Northern Basin Review, which, it is important for everybody to remember, was agreed upon as an action way back in 2012 by the then water minister and now Labor's shadow water minister, Mr Tony Burke, because there was uncertainty about the credibility of some of the research underpinning the way in which northern basin entitlements had been calculated at the time. So there was a commitment made that there would be a fully informed scientific review, and a fully informed scientific review, indeed, was undertaken. It went through all of the proper independent processes of the Murray-Darling Basin Authority and, of course, was brought then to the ministerial council, where it received endorsement from all states and territories. As I said before, it is unfortunate that the disallowance of that last night now creates great uncertainty for all of those river communities and puts jobs at risk.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Hanson, a final supplementary question.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:25</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, barely any or none of the water stolen from northern New South Wales and Queensland will get to South Australia. That's a fact. So why is this parliament wanting to continue breaching section 100 of Australia's Constitution and continue selling water rights overseas while 87 per cent of Queensland is drought stricken?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:25</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I don't agree with the term 'water stolen', but I did acknowledge in my first answer that, indeed, the northern basin is often disconnected from the southern basin in times of low inflows into that system. Of course, it is correct that, of the 70-gigalitre adjustment proposed to the northern basin, on average a very small proportion of that—only a few gigalitres—would, in fact, ever make it to the southern basin and potentially through to the Lower Lakes. That is, indeed, one of the reasons why many of the claims that have been made by the Greens in particular and some of those opposite are claims that are misplaced, are claims that misinterpret the science and are claims that ignore the reality that the northern basin—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Hanson, on a point of order.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Hanson</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Birmingham, you haven't commented on the part of my question about also breaching section 100 of the Australian Constitution.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Hanson, as I've said before, I cannot instruct the minister how to answer a question as long as he remains directly relevant to the terms of it, and he was.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Everything that has been done in relation to the construction of the Murray-Darling Basin Plan has been in accordance with the Australian Constitution, including the referral of certain powers made by the states and territories to the Commonwealth to enable the passage of the Water Act back in 2007.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DISTINGUISHED VISITORS</title>
        <page.no>56</page.no>
        <type>DISTINGUISHED VISITORS</type>
      </debateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:27</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I draw to the attention of honourable senators the presence in the gallery of a parliamentary delegation from Turkey, led by His Excellency Mr Orhan Tavli, Governor of Canakkale. On behalf of all senators, I wish you a warm welcome to Australia and in particular to the Senate.</para>
<para>Honourable senators: Hear, hear!</para>
</speech>
</debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE</title>
        <page.no>56</page.no>
        <type>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Murray-Darling Basin</title>
          <page.no>56</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:27</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FAWCETT</name>
    <name.id>DYU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is also to the Minister representing the Minister for the Environment and Energy, Senator Birmingham. I'm speaking as a senator from South Australia, the state that stands to benefit the most from a successful implementation of the Murray-Darling Basin Plan. Can the minister advise the Senate of the consequences to the River Murray environment in South Australia if the Murray-Darling Basin Plan is abandoned?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:28</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Fawcett for his question and his passionate advocacy of the Murray-Darling Basin Plan, that provides certainty and security to the people of South Australia and to all river communities. Having a credible plan guarantees sustainability for the environment, for the economy and for the communities of the river system. Yesterday, sadly, we saw recklessness in relation to the Murray-Darling Basin Plan in this Senate, and the destruction of bipartisanship that had underpinned progress since the Water Act was passed in 2007 and underpinned agreement and progress in 2012, when the Murray-Darling Basin Plan was agreed to. Tragically, that means that at risk is certainty for our home state and for all river communities about the guarantee that we will have the water to sustain our river systems, the water to sustain the economies of our communities and the water to sustain the society of those river towns.</para>
<para>What is at risk is an extra 3,200 gigalitres of equivalent environmental flows throughout the river system. By putting that at risk—and that is what everybody opposite did last night—they do put at risk the health of the Murray mouth, the health of the Lower Lakes, the health of native birds and species, the health of irrigation communities, the health of river communities and the health of the populations who live up and down the Murray-Darling Basin.</para>
<para>For 118 years this country has argued over water, and who should be responsible for it and how it should be managed. It was a great breakthrough when the Basin Plan was adopted and it has been sustained and underpinned by bipartisanship. It will only work in the future with bipartisanship and with, as Senator Ruston has rightly said, all sides stopping pointing guns at each other's heads and instead coming back to the table to work through a solution.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Fawcett, a supplementary question?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:30</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FAWCETT</name>
    <name.id>DYU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Can the minister advise the Senate why the Basin Plan is critical to the future of South Australia?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:30</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Around one in five South Australians are employed in the agriculture, food or tourism sectors, much of which depend on the river to sustain them. Many people live along the basin communities in South Australia and, as everybody appreciates, Adelaide is heavily dependent upon the basin as well. All of these factors are reasons the Basin Plan needs to be delivered in full and on time. It needs to be delivered in a way where we won't walk away from commitments that we have made to each other, which is what the Labor Party sadly did in this place last night. We must make sure that at every step we back the independence of the Murray-Darling Basin Authority, which the Labor Party ignored last night, and the scientific evidence provided by the Murray-Darling Basin Authority, which the Labor Party ignored last night. We must make sure we live by our commitments, and, sadly, the Labor Party broke the commitments they made to the northern basin communities last night, and that is what is putting the whole plan at risk.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Fawcett, a final supplementary question?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:31</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FAWCETT</name>
    <name.id>DYU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Can minister advise the Senate how the Basin Plan and South Australia's future are being threatened?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:31</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>As Senator Ruston has rightly said, we have different parties who've now pointed guns at each other's heads. We've had the Labor Party here in the Senate acting in concert with the Greens and the Xenophon party, threatening to walk away from a key element of the plan and, indeed, walking away from that key element last night. That has resulted in those upstream saying, 'We'll walk away from the plan altogether.' The only way to put the pieces of this plan back together is for everybody to lay down their arms and come back to the table, and to recognise that the plan that was stitched together carefully in 2012 is the one we should see fully delivered and fully implemented. The Labor Party needs to stand by what they agreed to in 2012. And upstream states need to stay at the table to make sure they give certainty to their river communities that ends what has been, as I said, more than a century of arguing over water and gives us the sustainable, healthy river and communities that we all want to see.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Transurban Group</title>
          <page.no>57</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:32</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RICE</name>
    <name.id>155410</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Minister for Infrastructure and Transport, Senator Scullion. I note reports this week about private toll operator Transurban, who run 13 of the 16 toll roads in Australia, recording staggering profits. Their net profits tripled in the six months to December to $331 million. The ACCC chair, Rod Sims, said regarding this that he thinks we have pushed maximising revenue to the detriment of the roads system. Yet Transurban also pay zero corporate tax. To what end? Commuters in our cities remain stuck in traffic whilst paying exorbitant and escalating tolls. Can the minister explain to Australian commuters how it justifies supporting the privatisation of such a massive part of our urban transport network, locking in huge tolls, huge profits, and zero return to the taxpayer, whilst the government's investment in public transport—which would transform our cities—is paltry at best?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:33</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SCULLION</name>
    <name.id>00AOM</name.id>
    <electorate>Northern Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I'm not in a position to give you a detailed and proper response on that matter. I'll take that entire question on notice. But I can tell you that we've been doing an awful lot about road safety. We are building a lot of roads. There are issues around tolls and taxes and whether it's appropriate for anyone to make a profit in this country—I know from your side of parliament there is always a question over profit. What happens in the taxation system is that you actually have to make a profit to pay tax. I'm not sure if you've been in business, but it's one of the principles. If you have some information or some evidence that someone has made a profit that they're not paying the appropriate amount of tax on, I'm more than happy to pass that onto the taxation commissioner.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:34</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RICE</name>
    <name.id>155410</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I also note Transurban CEO, Scott Charlton, has publicly claimed this week that false traffic modelling and data have been used in the past to bolster the case for toll roads when companies are bidding for contracts. In Victoria there has been wide criticism of this problem with Transurban's very own West Gate toll road. Will the government compel the Victorian Labor government to provide to Infrastructure Australia the traffic modelling and peer reviews for this road, as has been requested multiple times, with the Victorian government having refused to do so?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:35</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SCULLION</name>
    <name.id>00AOM</name.id>
    <electorate>Northern Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Again, I won't be able to provide you with the details on a number of those matters. I'll undertake, through the minister, to do that. But in terms of Victorian infrastructure, we've made a $3 billion commitment to a transformative feature of the East West Link. Victoria would be receiving 19.8 per cent of the Commonwealth infrastructure spend. Victorian state Labor cut this productivity-unlocking project, and yet they seem to prefer per capita infrastructure spending over nation building.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Rice, on a point of order.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Rice</name>
    <name.id>155410</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Relevance: my question was very specific as to whether the government will compel the Victorian Labor government to provide to Infrastructure Australia the traffic modelling information and the independent peer review, as has been requested of the Victorian Labor government many times?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Scullion, I remind you of the terms of the question.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SCULLION</name>
    <name.id>00AOM</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Not on the point of order—I have indicated that I will take on notice all of the elements of your question. I was simply providing additional information. Again, I will take that element on notice.</para>
<para>The government remains committed to East West Link and remains ready to partner with a Victorian government that is going to be delivering for Victorians. Labor laughed at Inland Rail. It will deliver a $7 billion economic dividend to Victoria. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Rice, a final supplementary question?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:36</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RICE</name>
    <name.id>155410</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>While private toll operator Transurban is massively increasing its profits, the government is moving at a snail's pace on its inquiry into road user charging, which could provide an efficient and equitable model to manage traffic congestion and ensure the proceeds are returned to the public purse for the public benefit. Can the minister tell us when the government will finally get moving on its public inquiry into road-user charging so that we can examine the options and implications for Australia?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:37</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SCULLION</name>
    <name.id>00AOM</name.id>
    <electorate>Northern Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I'll take some details of exactly how much we've progressed on the road-user-charge inquiry. You've indicated in your question that somehow we're lagging behind. That's an opinion. I've just said I don't have an answer to that because I don't have the information at hand. I'll take the question on notice.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Tasmania: Biosecurity</title>
          <page.no>58</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:37</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator URQUHART</name>
    <name.id>231199</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Minister for Agriculture and Water Resources, Senator Canavan. There continue to be reports of fruit fly sightings outside the Tasmanian exclusion zone. What impact has the Liberal Tasmanian government's decision to rank control and management of fruit fly as a low priority had on the Turnbull government's allocation of biosecurity resources?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:38</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CANAVAN</name>
    <name.id>245212</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Urquhart for her question. The Australian government takes biosecurity very seriously. It's one of the most important investments we make to protect our reputation in agriculture right around the world. That is why we have boosted spending on biosecurity to more than $750 million a year now. In terms of the specific question you asked, my understanding and the advice I have is that the money the Australian government is spending on those services is lower, but it's lower because we're getting the same service for a lower fee. Exactly the same service is being provided with those services in Tasmania but for a lower fee. We try to do that because we get efficiencies—to spend more on biosecurity as well. I note that as a result of this particular detection of fruit fly in some parts of Tasmania the Hodgman government is providing a $2 million industry support package to affected growers, distributors and retailers of fruit. We are also doing what we can to ensure that market access for Tasmanian farmers is maintained as much as possible, as you'd expect us to do. The specific response to fruit fly is primarily a responsibility of the Tasmanian government, but we are assisting them with contacts overseas to ensure that markets are informed of the current situation and that we can maintain market access for Tasmanian agricultural products.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Urquhart, a supplementary question.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:39</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator URQUHART</name>
    <name.id>231199</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Recent research indicates flies have survived winter in Mildura and could therefore survive Tasmania's winter. Was the ranking of fruit fly as a low priority based on the assumption that flies could not survive Tasmania's winter? If so, what action has the Turnbull government taken to reduce the risks flowing from the Tasmanian Liberal government's error?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:40</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CANAVAN</name>
    <name.id>245212</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Urquhart again for that question. I do reject the characterisation in that question that there was an error on behalf of the Tasmanian government. However, I don't have the specific information about that reprioritisation here, and I'll take that on notice.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Urquhart, a final supplementary question.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:40</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator URQUHART</name>
    <name.id>231199</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Last Thursday the minister was asked what representations the Tasmanian Liberal government had made to the Turnbull government in relation to the biosecurity emergency taking place in Tasmania. Given the minister has had a week to check, have any such representations been made? If so, in what form and when were they made?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:40</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CANAVAN</name>
    <name.id>245212</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Urquhart, I don't have timings with me, but I've sought advice and my understanding is that the Australian government has been contact with officials, particularly around the market access issues that I raised earlier.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Indigenous Affairs</title>
          <page.no>59</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:41</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GICHUHI</name>
    <name.id>270552</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister for Indigenous Affairs, Senator Scullin. Can the minister update the Senate on new initiatives this government is implementing as part of its commitment to closing the gap?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:41</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SCULLION</name>
    <name.id>00AOM</name.id>
    <electorate>Northern Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator, for that important question. Can I say this has been the most encouraging Closing the Gap week I can remember. We've had the best results since the target began 10 years ago, with three targets now on track. Yes, there are still another four targets not on track, but I have to say that's a bit unsurprising. When you set targets on the back of a coaster around a kitchen cabinet, you don't have any engagement with communities. You don't have to take my word for that. Page 17 of Oxfam's report released last Friday provides an insight into that approach. So we're going with a different approach—one that will drive real change. So we're consulting Indigenous communities across the country, including through the Special Gathering meeting last week.</para>
<para>It has also been an encouraging week because of the fantastic new initiatives that we launched. We've announced a new Indigenous Grants Policy that will set targets for our service delivery agencies to increase the number of Indigenous community-controlled organisations delivering services. This is a monumental way to change the way we fund service delivery, and it will mean more Indigenous organisations delivering services to communities from the APY Lands through to Point Pearce in the senator's home state. We've also announced a new Indigenous Business Sector Strategy to continue the geometric rate of growth in the sector caused by the now $1 billion worth of investment through Indigenous procurement since the introduction of our IPP compared with just 6.2 in 2012-13. We are expanding the Indigenous Land Corporation's mandate to invest in sea country. We are creating more opportunities to grow the Indigenous estate with our reforms to the land account, which will be a benefit of up to $1.5 billion over 20 years. These initiatives are not from us. These initiatives have come from a partnership with regional and rural Australians, particularly with our First Australians.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Gichuhi, a supplementary question.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:43</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GICHUHI</name>
    <name.id>270552</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>How are these measures supporting Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people to live healthier and more prosperous lives?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:43</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SCULLION</name>
    <name.id>00AOM</name.id>
    <electorate>Northern Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank you for the question. Clearly, our measures are having an impact. We've seen that child mortality has dropped 33 per cent. The overall mortality has dropped 15 per cent. Trachoma is on track to be eliminated as a public health problem by 2020. The gap in blindness and vision impairment has halved. We've seen since the last census that the number of Indigenous Australians with a job has increased by 23.3 per cent and the number of Indigenous businesses has increased by 30 per cent compared with just one per cent for non-Australians. Clearly, there is more to be done. We need to ensure the huge funding that the Commonwealth gives to the states and territories to deliver services is actually reaching Indigenous communities. Unfortunately, in your home state of South Australia, Senator, the Weatherill Labor government seems to be out of ideas. The school attendance target in South Australia is not on track. The reading and numeracy target is not on track, neither is employment or life expectancy.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Gichuhi, a final supplementary question.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:44</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GICHUHI</name>
    <name.id>270552</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Minister. How are these coalition government policies supporting more Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people into work?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:44</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SCULLION</name>
    <name.id>00AOM</name.id>
    <electorate>Northern Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Our policies have resulted in a 23.3 per cent jump in the number of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people in work. In South Australia we're investing in practical measures to stop the vicious cycle of recidivism by getting people job-ready in prison. I recently launched the Correctional Services Training and Employment Program, with $225,000 over three years to train 20 Indigenous Australians as correctional services officers. This will make the prisons in South Australia more culturally competent and better placed to deal with their inmates. We'll deliver 20 Indigenous prison trainees in Adelaide, Port Augusta, Port Lincoln, Mobilong and Cadell prisons. A young lady from Murray Bridge, Annina Tarasenko, is 23 and one of the first trainees to be selected for C-STEP. She says, 'The program has changed my life.' So she's told us that as an Indigenous person working in correctional services she can make a positive difference for Indigenous— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Deputy Prime Minister</title>
          <page.no>60</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:45</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator POLLEY</name>
    <name.id>e5x</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister for Resources and Northern Australia, Senator Canavan. In an article entitled 'It's a bit fishy' in this morning's <inline font-style="italic">Daily Telegraph</inline>, it is reported that Deputy Prime Minister Joyce's former media adviser continued to work closely with Deputy Prime Minister Joyce even after she was given a job in Minister Canavan's office. Can the minister confirm that, while working for him in June, Deputy Prime Minister Joyce's former media adviser accompanied Mr Joyce to a press conference on the Murray-Darling Basin carp eradication program? Can the minister confirm that he was not present at the press conference?</para>
<para>Government senators interjecting—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order on my right! I have been asking for silence during questions. Senator Canavan.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:46</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CANAVAN</name>
    <name.id>245212</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank the senator for her question. It's not unusual for staff in one office to help staff in other offices, particularly on busy parliamentary days. My understanding is that Ms Campion did attend that particular event to help with the audiovisual equipment. I was not at that event myself.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Polley.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:47</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator POLLEY</name>
    <name.id>e5x</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Given the carp eradication program has nothing to do with the minister's portfolio of Resources and Northern Australia, why did Deputy Prime Minister Joyce's former media adviser accompany Mr Joyce to the press conference despite working for Minister Canavan? What role was she performing?</para>
<para>Government senators interjecting—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order on my right! I will call the minister when there's order. Order! Senator Macdonald! Senator Canavan, you've got the call.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:48</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CANAVAN</name>
    <name.id>245212</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I believe I've dealt with that issue in answer to the first question. As I said, it's not unusual for staff in one office to help staff in others, particularly on days which can be quite busy in a parliamentary sitting framework.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Polley, a final supplementary question.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:48</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator POLLEY</name>
    <name.id>e5x</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>What proportion of her work time did Deputy Prime Minister Joyce's former media adviser spend working with Mr Joyce while notionally having a job in Minister Canavan's office?</para>
<para>Government senators interjecting—</para>
<para>Opposition senators interjecting—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order—around the chamber! Senator Canavan.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:48</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CANAVAN</name>
    <name.id>245212</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Ms Campion was an effective employee in my office. She clearly had the skills and experience to perform the role she did. She's had extensive experience in the media, including as a deputy chief of staff at <inline font-style="italic">The Daily Telegraph</inline>. She worked in government for a number of years before coming to work for me, as well. She spent the vast majority of her time helping my office improve the professionalism of our digital media content. She particularly had a role in organising a tour of the Bowen Basin and North and Central Queensland to sell the message from those areas of the country about how important our resources sector is—a message that the Labor Party could well heed, because they don't seem to get this message very often from their own representatives up there. Ms Campion worked effectively in my office, albeit only for three months, as I had to resign from the ministry over the citizenship issue, and she was an effective employee for me.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Mining</title>
          <page.no>61</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:49</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WILLIAMS</name>
    <name.id>I0V</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister for Resources and Northern Australia, Senator Canavan. Could the minister please inform the Senate of the status of the coal sector in Australia and how the sector contributes to jobs and growth?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:50</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CANAVAN</name>
    <name.id>245212</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>It's a fantastic segue from Senator Williams. I thank him very much for his question. I know that Senator Williams is a very strong defender and protector of the fantastic Hunter coal industry in New South Wales.</para>
<para>The latest ABS figures show that Australia's coal exports totalled $56.5 billion last year, a 35 per cent increase from 2016. In fact, it's the highest amount of coal exports on record in Australia. Coal is still king; it is still king in this country. It's our second biggest export and it employs thousands and thousands of people. I know that that is why Senator Williams supports those jobs and supports those hardworking Australians that rely on the coal sector for their livelihoods.</para>
<para>They are people like the 16,170 people employed in the Hunter Valley, whom Senator Williams represents so well. There are also the 650 coal-fired power workers in the Hunter Valley and the 610 that are in the Newcastle-Lake Macquarie region. Not only does the coal sector provide them with jobs and their livelihoods; it also then provides cheap power as well. That is the cheap power that then fires the Tomago aluminium smelter and supports thousands of jobs in that industry as well.</para>
<para>The reason that we support industries like the coal sector is that they support jobs in this country. They support people being able to have the dignity of a job, to be able to provide for their families, to make sure that they can put their kids through school and to save for their retirement. That is why we support them. It is why we don't go on frolics with the Greens to try and get their preferences at different elections—elections like the Batman election—and desert our own base just to save one seat. We will not do that, because whatever the attacks are, whatever the ill-formed views are about the coal industry, we will stand up for them and for their jobs.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Williams, a supplementary question.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:52</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WILLIAMS</name>
    <name.id>I0V</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank the minister for that good answer, and I ask: how is the Turnbull-Joyce government supporting technology such as carbon capture and storage?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:52</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CANAVAN</name>
    <name.id>245212</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Williams for his question. Senator Williams is right to point out that there are many emerging technologies in the coal sector that are making sure that the coal industry becomes cleaner and more efficient, and delivers even more benefits to our country and to the world.</para>
<para>There is great interest around the world in new technologies in carbon capture and storage. That is why the head of the International Energy Agency, Dr Fatih Birol, this morning endorsed the action we're taking to support carbon capture and storage technologies. These are important technologies to help bring down the carbon emissions of our coal sector. That is already occurring through new efficient coal-fired power stations. Carbon capture and storage offers to reduce carbon emissions from the coal sector by up to 90 per cent.</para>
<para>That is why we support allowing the Clean Energy Finance Corporation to invest in coal-fired power stations with carbon capture and storage. What is the problem? Dr Fatih Birol, the head of the International Energy Agency, supports the Australian government's position, and let's hope the Senate comes to the same position on this to support our coal sector.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Williams, a final supplementary question.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:53</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WILLIAMS</name>
    <name.id>I0V</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Is the minister aware of any threats to the coal sector?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:53</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CANAVAN</name>
    <name.id>245212</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>You would hope that the industry that supplies thousands of jobs for Australians and that is our second-biggest export industry would have a level of bipartisan support in this place. Unfortunately, the Labor Party, as I said, are on a frolic with the Greens at the moment. They're deserting their base; deserting people like Tony Maher, a union official, who said today:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… what do you do with the next [coalmine], and the next one, and the one after that?</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I see no reason for Labor to toughen its position. Why win Batman and lose in central Queensland?</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The environment groups have worked themselves up into a passion about it. I don’t know why. Adani is just another project and it should be judged on its merits.</para></quote>
<para>But the Labor Party are disagreeing with their own union officials.</para>
<para>There is still hope, though, because while some in the Labor Party did say a while back:</para>
<quote><para class="block">One count was the Prime Minister suggesting that somehow I did not support clean coal technology—</para></quote>
<para class="italic"><inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Deputy Prime Minister</title>
          <page.no>62</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:55</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister for Jobs and Innovation, Senator Cash. Given the minister has since 20 September 2017 been responsible for the Department of Industry, Innovation and Science, either in an acting capacity or an ongoing capacity, is the minister aware of any request of the secretary or any other senior officials in that department to appoint Deputy Prime Minister Joyce's former media adviser to a departmental role?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:55</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CASH</name>
    <name.id>I0M</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The answer to the question is no.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Cameron, a supplementary question.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:55</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Is the minister or her office aware of any approach to the secretary or any other senior officials in any other government agency regarding the appointment of Deputy Prime Minister Joyce's former media adviser to a public service role?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:56</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CASH</name>
    <name.id>I0M</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The answer in relation to myself is no; in relation to my office, not to my knowledge.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:56</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Can the minister guarantee to the Senate that neither she nor her office is aware of any attempt to secure a job for Deputy Prime Minister Joyce's former media adviser in Geoscience Australia or any other government agency?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:56</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CASH</name>
    <name.id>I0M</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>In relation to myself, yes; in relation to my office, I'll take it on notice.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Pyeongchang Winter Olympic Games</title>
          <page.no>62</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:56</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BROCKMAN</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister for Sport, Senator McKenzie. We are one week into the Winter Olympics at Pyeongchang. Can minister update the Senate as to how the Australian team has been performing?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:56</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKENZIE</name>
    <name.id>207825</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Yes, I can. I thank Senator Brockman for his question. There are many great days to be the Minister for Sport for our great nation, but few are better than days like today, where I can update the Senate on the incredible achievements of our Aussie athletes on the international stage. Yesterday Australia won its second medal of the games when the team flag-bearer and snowboard superstar, Scotty James, took home a bronze medal in the men's snowboard half-pipe. Anyone who saw his exploits and the exhilarating final was left in no doubt about the talent this young man from Warrandyte in my home state of Victoria possesses. Before his third and final run in the final, Scotty dialled in ACDC's <inline font-style="italic">Back in Black</inline> on his headphones and adjusted his red boxing kangaroo gloves before dropping into the half-pipe. The only way it could have been more Australian is if he took a bite of some Vegemite toast on top of the run.</para>
<para>The Winter Olympics team kicked off their medal haul with Matt Graham taking home a silver in the men's moguls. A local boy from the New South Wales Central Coast, he has committed his life to the sport he loves and now proudly has a silver medal to show for his efforts. Matt's success is down to his commitment and passion for his sport, and has been assisted by the tremendous support he's received in Korea from his parents, grandparents, partner and three mates from school. For a country known more for its deserts and sweeping plains than for its snowfields, the achievements of our Aussie medallists have been outstanding. I must also mention the fantastic efforts of those athletes who may not have made the podium but are representing our country brilliantly on the international stage. Every single member of our 51-strong team in Pyeongchang that has competed to this point has continued to write another great chapter in Australia's long history of sporting achievements. I take this opportunity to recognise the support provided to athletes by their families, friends and coaches. Without these dedicated individuals, often going to great lengths to assist our athletes, the success they're now achieving would not be possible. All Australians continue their support. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Brockman, a supplementary question.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:59</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BROCKMAN</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I know everyone in this place is fascinated by this topic, because there has been so much discussion of Steven Bradbury. Can the minister advise the Senate about opportunities for sports diplomacy and advancing Australia's interests in the upcoming trip to Pyeongchang?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:59</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKENZIE</name>
    <name.id>207825</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I'll be travelling to Pyeongchang to support all our Winter Olympians, including Lydia Lassila, Danielle Scott, Laura Peel and Samantha Wells as they fly the flag for Australia in the women's freestyle aerial skiing. This trip is a fantastic opportunity to further Australia's interests by connecting with representatives from the nations at the games and continuing to advance the objectives of Australia's sports diplomacy strategy. The strategy recognises that sports diplomacy is an increasingly important aspect of diplomatic practice and a growing part of the global sports industry. In conjunction with the Minister for Foreign Affairs, I've used my role as Minister for Sport to help build relationships and trust between countries. In addition, I'll be liaising with Australian sporting administrators to discuss the government's priorities for the future of Australian sport.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Brockman, a final supplementary question?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:00</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BROCKMAN</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>What are the government's plans to assist all members across the community to participate in sport?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:00</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKENZIE</name>
    <name.id>207825</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you very much, Senator Brockman. We recognise the enormous benefits that sport and physical activity can deliver to the community. Sport makes a valuable contribution to our health and wellbeing and creates social capital in our communities, particularly for those of us in the regions. It builds national pride through our sporting achievements and obviously contributes to health benefits. In order to ensure that this valuable contribution continues, the government is developing a sports plan that includes all levels of sport, from community and grassroots clubs all the way through to supporting elite-level competition. The government is working towards ensuring that its investment in sport continues to deliver health, societal and economic benefits to all Australians. Through the support the government are providing to Australian sport, we're ensuring that every Australian will be able to thrive in their chosen sport or physical activity no matter what the level or where they live.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Cormann</name>
    <name.id>HDA</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I ask that further questions be placed on the <inline font-style="italic">Notice Paper</inline>.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>MOTIONS</title>
        <page.no>63</page.no>
        <type>MOTIONS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Deputy Prime Minister</title>
          <page.no>63</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:01</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DI NATALE</name>
    <name.id>53369</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to move a motion relating to the breaching of the standards required of ministers by the Deputy Prime Minister.</para>
<para>Leave not granted.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DI NATALE</name>
    <name.id>53369</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That so much of the standing orders be suspended as would prevent me moving a motion to give precedence to a motion relating to the breaching of the standards required of ministers by the Deputy Prime Minister.</para></quote>
<para>Mr President, the behaviour and actions of the Deputy Prime Minister have brought the office of the Deputy Prime Minister into disrepute. This happens at a time when trust in politics is at an all-time low, when people have had a gutful of the behaviour of people in this place, and yet here we see a Prime Minister where questions are raised around due process, conflict of interest and the inappropriate use of taxpayer funds. What the Deputy Prime Minister chooses to do in his own time is his own business. We do note that this is a very difficult time for his family and indeed his new partner. But the reality now remains that there are serious questions about the conduct of the Deputy Prime Minister.</para>
<para>We know that arrangements have been made by the Deputy Prime Minister to place his new partner into highly paid positions within the National Party's parliamentary staff. We know the Prime Minister's own ministerial code of conduct states very, very clearly that partners shouldn't be offered positions within other ministerial offices. Of course, part of this hinges on whether the person in question was the Deputy Prime Minister's partner. Well, forgive me, but to try and avoid responsibility for fulfilling the ministerial code on the basis of whether she was technically his partner because he was in an ongoing relationship with his wife does not pass the common sense test. There is a serious question around whether he breached those standards.</para>
<para>Today we learnt from reports that it appears that the Deputy Prime Minister solicited a gift of free rental accommodation worth in the order of $12,000, again appearing to be a clear breach of the Prime Minister's statement. Worse still, when asked about this he told the parliament today that the person in question, his friend, approached him, offering to do him a favour. We know, however, from when he was asked about this several days ago, that it was Barnaby Joyce that approached Greg Maguire—the person in question, the so-called friend—to solicit some help in finding accommodation. It does appear that today the Deputy Prime Minister has misled the parliament.</para>
<para>We further learnt that this individual, who clearly stands to benefit from decisions that have been made by Barnaby Joyce, may have already been the beneficiary of decisions by the Deputy Prime Minister, in that some of the accommodation that he owns may have already benefited from a government contract. That is a clear conflict of interest if indeed that is the case.</para>
<para>We also learnt today that there are further revelations that the Deputy Prime Minister was paid by the Nationals to run for the recent by-election in New England. This is remarkable. The Deputy Prime Minister of the country, who is on almost $500,000, is paid a salary by the National Party to conduct a by-election campaign. It is utterly remarkable that the Nationals would think it was appropriate to cover the salary of somebody who was so incompetent. He was found to be a dual citizen. He denied it initially, sat on it and continued to be a minister. And what do the National Party do? They reward him for his incompetence.</para>
<para>We should also remember that the reason we are in the mess we are in with the Murray-Darling Basin Plan is because Deputy Prime Minister Joyce has been so incompetent. This is a man whose hypocrisy knows no bounds. He took time during the debate around marriage equality to lecture us on family values and how important it was to ensure that we respect those values—of course, knowing all the while that he wasn't living up to them.</para>
<para>But that is not the reason for this suspension here today. The reason for this suspension is that there are serious questions about due process, about the potential for conflict of interest and, of course, about the appropriate use of taxpayer funds. All of this could be resolved, every last question right now could be resolved, if we had a national anti-corruption body. These are precisely the sorts of allegations that should be referred to a national anti-corruption body because there are serious questions now for the Deputy Prime Minister to answer.</para>
<para>One of the Deputy Prime Minister's primary functions is to serve as Prime Minister when the Prime Minister is on leave. We now learn that Deputy Prime Minister will be missing in action next week, and that honour will be handed over to Senator Cormann. That's simply not good enough. If he's not up to the job to be Prime Minister, he needs to go, and the Nationals need to sack him. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Di Natale, could you please provide the Senate with a signed suspension motion. Senator Wong.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:07</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I will outline why Labor is supporting this proposition. On Wednesday next week Mr Turnbull will leave Australia for the United States but Australia's Deputy Prime Minister will not be the Acting Prime Minister. That is because this government knows how untenable it is for him to act as the Prime Minister. In fact, the government's own decision underlines how untenable it is for Mr Joyce to hold any ministerial office—</para>
<para class="italic">Senator O'Sullivan interjecting—</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>and it underlines that the Prime Minister knows this. If he can't be the Acting Prime Minister, why is he still in his job?</para>
<para>The Deputy Prime Minister has repeatedly demonstrated a failure to abide by the standards demanded of ministers. That disqualifies him from any ministerial office, let alone acting as Prime Minister of Australia. I make very clear at the outset that I make no judgement—</para>
<para>Government senators interjecting—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Wong, please resume your seat. I remind senators, particularly Senator O'Sullivan, that Senator Wong has the right to be heard in silence. I would ask you to respect that. Senator Cameron?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Cameron</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Madam Deputy President, I ask Senator O'Sullivan to withdraw the accusation he made against Senator Wong.</para>
<para class="italic">Senator O'Sullivan interjecting—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator O'Sullivan, I did hear the comment you made, I would ask you to withdraw it without repeating the offence.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'Sullivan</name>
    <name.id>247871</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I withdraw.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator O'Sullivan. Senator Wong.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I want to make very clear that I make no judgement, nor any comment whatsoever, about Mr Joyce's personal life. I make no judgement about him as a husband nor as a father. What we are asserting is that, in his professional capacity as a minister, Mr Joyce has failed to adhere to the standards that one expects of a minister. The foreword to the statement of ministerial standards makes this crystal clear. It declares that 'ministers must act in a manner consistent with high standards of integrity and propriety'. It also says that 'ministers shall conduct themselves in a manner that will ensure public confidence in them and in the government'. I think even Mr Joyce's most loyal supporters could not, and would not, reasonably assert that he has acted in a manner consistent with the highest standards of integrity and probity and conducted himself in a manner that will ensure public confidence either in himself or in the government.</para>
<para>The revelations this morning that Mr Joyce sought, and was subsequently offered, rent-free, an apartment from a prominent local business man is evidence of this. The statement of standards states:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Ministers … must not seek or encourage any form of gift in their personal capacity.</para></quote>
<para>Mr Joyce's claim today that he did not seek the apartment has been directly contradicted by two journalists, who spoke directly to the owner of the apartment. And, even if we were to accept Mr Joyce's version of events, what is not in dispute is that he continues to benefit from the gift to this day. One is reminded of the $40,000 gift from Ms Gina Rinehart.</para>
<para>Secondly, it has been confirmed in this chamber this week that the former staffer that Mr Joyce has now made clear he is in a relationship with was subsequently employed, with the involvement of Mr Joyce's office, by two other senior members of the National Party. Again, I make no comment on the fact of the relationship. What I refer to is the Statement of Ministerial Standards, which is very clear on these facts:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Ministers' close relatives and partners are not to be appointed to positions in their ministerial or electorate offices, and must not be employed in the offices of other members of the executive government without the Prime Minister's express approval.</para></quote>
<para>The Deputy Prime Minister and Mr Turnbull try to use a legalistic argument to evade culpability by arguing over the time at which Mr Joyce's former staffer came to be officially regarded as a partner. Can I say this: these are legalistic arguments which ignore the central issue, which is the principle that the standards uphold. There are sound reasons as to why these standards exist and why the safeguards, prohibitions and guidelines in them exist. The principle that is sought to be upheld here is one of the avoidance of conflict of interest. It is so the public can be assured that there is no conflict of interest in the appointment of persons to taxpayer-funded positions. And, frankly, it is also to ensure that those close to us are not exposed to unwanted public scrutiny that such suggestion of partiality would attract, and we have, I think, seen that this week.</para>
<para>Most importantly, these actions do not pass the Prime Minister's own test:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Ministers … must act in a manner that is consistent with the highest standards of integrity and propriety … and … conduct themselves in a manner that will ensure public confidence in them and in the government.</para></quote>
<para>The sad reality is—and I wish the National Party could see this—Mr Joyce's position is untenable. It is unthinkable at this time that he can act in any ministerial office, as is demonstrated by the fact that the government itself cannot appoint him to be the Acting Prime Minister. Mr Joyce has failed to live up to the standards that Australians rightly expect of ministers. It is right that the Senate today expresses its view that Mr Joyce must resign, and he should resign today.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:12</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKENZIE</name>
    <name.id>207825</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>As Deputy Leader of the National Party, I rise to speak on this particular motion and completely reject the notion that Barnaby Joyce, as minister, is not acting in the absolute best interests of regional Australia and the coalition government. He has explained the nature of his relationship with his former media adviser earlier this week in a very, very public statement. In relation to the employment of partners, of people that you are in a relationship with, he has explained the complexity of that issue in his statement. I am very, very happy to read that out for the Senate right now.</para>
<para>Ms Campion worked in the Deputy Prime Minister's office. A relationship developed, and she did the responsible thing and sought employment in Senator Canavan's office for a position which she was eminently qualified for and skilled to perform. And she did great work in that office, not just for Senator Canavan but for the entire National Party. I know, as a backbench senator then, that she visited my office and assisted us to develop our social media skills within the office as well.</para>
<para>Vikki did great work when Matt, obviously, stepped down as a result of things going on with the High Court. As is the usual practice, Vikki, as were other staff in his office, was deployed throughout the National Party's pool, and that is incredibly appropriate, and there is nothing unusual about what happened.</para>
<para>When we go to issues around ministerial accountability, Barnaby Joyce has been incredibly accountable in this whole process. He has publicly made a statement that has ensured that we are all clear about what occurred and how he has taken personal responsibility for what occurred.</para>
<para>I think Senator Wong was talking about issues around the accommodation that the Deputy Prime Minister has been in receipt of. That's all been declared completely publicly. I know you're trying to whip up a stir here, but everything is public. Everything has been declared in the usual process and as is appropriate.</para>
<para>Again I go to the statement by the Deputy Prime Minister, which is up-front and honest about what occurred. I think it's important that we remember that, as a minister of the Crown, your No. 1 job is to deliver for your constituency. Barnaby Joyce, as a member of the National Party, as the Leader of the National Party, has been doing that day in, day out, whether we look at the $8 billion delivered for the Inland Rail or his pursuit of a decentralisation agenda to ensure that we have more local and well-paying government jobs right across regional Australia. We look at the Regional Investment Corporation legislation, passed by the Senate this sitting fortnight—incredibly important legislation for the delivery of jobs and investment in regional communities and our industries, and it was Barnaby Joyce that actually developed that.</para>
<para>When we go out onto the ground, into our communities, the reality is life happens. Our community knows that. But, I tell you what: they back Barnaby Joyce. They back what he delivers for them in government, what he's been able to deliver as agriculture minister with a $4 billion agricultural white paper, and now they're looking forward to what he'll be able to do within the infrastructure portfolio. It won't just be about the Inland Rail; hopefully, he'll be able to get the Victorian Labor government to get behind infrastructure projects in a real and meaningful way.</para>
<para>When we look at the trade agreements rolling out our support for agriculture industries in regional communities, we see that no-one has done that better than Barnaby Joyce. When you go out into regional communities—not just in Tamworth, but right up and down the eastern seaboard and beyond—they back Barnaby Joyce not because he is being a fabulous husband, not because of what he has or hasn't done within his office but because of what he has absolutely been able to deliver for them.</para>
<para>When they send all of us here, the people of Australia want us to deliver for them and to remember why we're here, and Barnaby Joyce has done that 100 per cent. He enjoys the full support of the National Party—and the leadership of the National Party is actually a gift of the National Party party room. Barnaby is on leave next week, as he is entitled to do. For that period of time, Mathias will be Acting PM. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Cormann</name>
    <name.id>HDA</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>On a point of order—I'm not taking the call on the debate—we still haven't got a copy of the motion. Given that, apparently, this has got such a great sense of urgency, it would be courteous, on a serious matter like this, for the chamber at least to be provided with a copy of the motion, which we still haven't got.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I remind Senator Di Natale that I did request a copy of the motion at the conclusion of his comments. I believe it's now being distributed.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:18</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WHISH-WILSON</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Fellow senators, think about how this looks to the Australian people. We've just heard from Senator McKenzie that Barnaby Joyce is on leave next week—a week when he is expected to fill the role of Prime Minister. As the Deputy Prime Minister, he's expected to fill the role of Prime Minister. What could be more important? But he's going on leave. This motion here today is not about Barnaby Joyce—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Whish-Wilson, I remind you—</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WHISH-WILSON</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr Barnaby Joyce. This motion is about the institution of parliament. None of us want to see this place being seen by the Australian people as a joke. This government has had crisis after crisis in recent years. We've seen former minister Sussan Ley have to step down from her job—resigned over a scandal. We've seen Mr Stuart Robert resign from his position as a minister over a scandal.</para>
<para>We've had crisis after crisis. It's no wonder that politics is at such a low ebb in this country and that people are throwing up their hands in disgust right around this country when they see politicians and political parties putting themselves first. That's what this is—this is about Mr Barnaby Joyce's career and this is about keeping a Prime Minister in power. It is a Prime Minister and a political party that will do whatever it takes to hold on to power. It's not a good look.</para>
<para>All of us need to support this motion today because this is about trust in the institution of parliament. I'm not going to get personal either about Mr Barnaby Joyce—I never have. I'm not going to get personal about this at all, but I will say in relation to politics that this is a man who has been happy to come into this place and the other place and lecture us on morality on issues like same-sex marriage and then display double standards. He's happy to tell young people that if they want an affordable house they should move to Armidale, and then he takes, rent free, an expensive apartment in the same town. This is a guy who is on $400,000 a year. How does this look?</para>
<para>The reason I'm raising these issues is that I ask senators to reflect on how this looks about politicians. Each and every one of us in here is a parliamentarian and a politician, and this diminishes each and every one of us. We are asking for the Deputy Prime Minister—if, indeed, he still is the Deputy Prime Minister next week when on leave—to step down, to resign from his position, for the good of the parliament and all of us and for the reputational damage that this continues to do to our institution.</para>
<para>He has clearly breached ministerial standards. Examples have already been given of the decisions that he's made. Each and every time it looks to the Australian people like this is self-serving politicians feathering their own nest, having their snouts in the trough and taking double standards every chance they get. That's what it looks like to your average punter on the street. That actually matters. That is what matters here today. This is about the institution of parliament, not about Mr Barnaby Joyce.</para>
<para>It should be a clear decision. No doubt it will be some weight off the shoulders of the National Party. I've seen you refuse to answer any questions you've been asked about Mr Barnaby Joyce this week. There has not been any meat on any bones in any answers. I've watched your body language, and clearly you're under the pump and this is a very difficult time for you. I suggest you make it easier by supporting this motion.</para>
<para>No offence to you, Senator Cormann—I think you'll do a very good job as Prime Minister next week—but the man who's supposed to do the job is Barnaby Joyce, and he's going on leave when he's supposed to be the Prime Minister. Young children around this country will be saying one day to their parents: 'I'm going to be Prime Minister. That's what I want to be when I grow up.' When Barnaby Joyce has got the chance to step into the big role, into the shoes of the Prime Minister, and sit in the big chair, he squibs it and goes on leave because he cannot stand the heat of what will happen next week. Senators have estimates the week after that. That's going to be a very busy week, let me tell you. Save yourself some pain and get Barnaby Joyce to resign. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:23</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'SULLIVAN</name>
    <name.id>247871</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I can only hope that the valium has kicked in. I sat here and listened to the hypocrisy of this party raise this issue in this place.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKim</name>
    <name.id>JKM</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>You want to talk about hypocrisy?</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'SULLIVAN</name>
    <name.id>247871</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>No, do you want to talk about it, Senator McKim? Do you want to talk about relationships?</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator O'Sullivan, I remind you to direct your comments to the chair.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'SULLIVAN</name>
    <name.id>247871</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Through you, Madam Deputy President, I'm asking Senator McKim if he wants to talk about office relationships and the conflicts that come with them while you are a member of the parliament. That's what I'm asking. He can respond now or at some later time, if he chooses to. This is a party that did not ever make comment on Sam Dastyari's conflict—not one word. He was a member of parliament who had a monstrous conflict in accepting money from foreign interests. He got demoted and then promoted—and there was not one word from you.</para>
<para>Opposition senators interjecting—</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'SULLIVAN</name>
    <name.id>247871</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Craig Thomson—go back to the attitude of the Greens when that embattlement was on over a period of time. Tony Burke—not one word; Senator Hanson-Young—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator O'Sullivan, please resume your seat. I appreciate this is a serious debate, but please refer to senators in this place by their correct title and people in the other place by their correct title. Please continue.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'SULLIVAN</name>
    <name.id>247871</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Hanson-Young was with the family on the whale watch trip—thousands of dollars that it cost. Their hypocrisy knows no boundary. I never heard them reflect on themselves when they took a $1.5 million or $1.8 million donation.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKim</name>
    <name.id>JKM</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>It's got nothing to do with this!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'SULLIVAN</name>
    <name.id>247871</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>It's got everything to do with this! If you want to talk about someone under influence because they've got a free flat for $7,000, I'll have a talk about you with $1.5 million or $1.8 million—whatever the figure was—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Williams</name>
    <name.id>I0V</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Two point two.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'SULLIVAN</name>
    <name.id>247871</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>My colleague tells me I'm out by hundreds of thousands of dollars. You people are hypocrites. You need to concentrate on the terms of some indictment that you imagine in your mind has been done here, because you behave like that in this place every day. You pull down jobs while Barnaby Joyce builds them. You pull down the bush and all the developments that occur in rural Australia while Barnaby Joyce builds them. He, on his worst day, would contribute more to this nation than your whole mob would in your best month—every time. Barnaby Joyce has done a phenomenal job and there's nothing, nothing, in the indictment that you have so loosely laid down that would in any way compromise him in doing the great job that he has done. He remains the leader of our party with absolute confidence. He will be there for as long as he chooses to be. You will not see our party move on it. You suggest that we are the ones with their career and their reputation at stake here. We will stand with this man. He's a fine leader of our party. He's a fine member of parliament. He's a fine Deputy Prime Minister.</para>
<para>You come in here and attack him through this hypocrisy. You have been silent on so many other matters. I will bet you London to a brick that not one single lick came out of your mouth in relation to the Dastyari matter. You want to talk about conflict and seriousness? You want to talk about that? Let's talk about that. If you want to talk about interoffice relationships and its impact on people's performance, I could start today, go alphabetically and get to about 50 or 60 people here and right across the community. You people need to take a breath and think about what you're saying. It is grubby. It is below the point. The only reason you have brought yourself in here today is that you know that the Australian people have moved past this. The media have run out of any opportunity to put one more word in the paper. They've run out of pictures. So what you're trying to do is add a bit of water and turn a cup of soup into enough for the whole eight of you. I'm telling you now, you'll fail at this, just as it's failed at the moment. The reason it's failed is that there's been no weight in the indictment. There is nothing to see here. These things are tickety-top. There are movements of staff in the hundreds around this building every week. You do it yourself. You share resources. You sit your resources in the one room over there with the Greens. They're attached to you, but you sit them in a common office. You come in here and try to lecture us because you've found some sliver of a thing, some lightweight sliver of a thing, and you think we're going to fold. I will tell you that biting into us is like biting into a stone fish. It won't end with your story. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:28</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HINCH</name>
    <name.id>2O4</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to support Senator Di Natale on this motion and also to agree with Senator Wong that the Deputy Prime Minister's position is untenable. I will go further and say that it was untenable last year. He should have stood down as Deputy Prime Minister and the party should have insisted on it when he was accused of being—and it was proved to be right—a dual national. He should have stood down then and gone to the backbench at least. Senator Canavan did that. He stood alongside the then Attorney-General Brandis and said, 'This is the right thing to do.' Senator Canavan did the right thing and went to the backbench. That's what Mr Joyce should have done back then.</para>
<para>Earlier today, when an earlier motion was being circulated, I would not have supported it because it directly said that the Prime Minister should sack the Deputy Prime Minister. I thought that was not the way it should go. I say to the junior partner of the coalition, the Nationals: it's your job and your responsibility now to do what you think you should do. I'm pleased, in a way, that Mr Joyce has probably taken some of the advice I gave him in a tweet earlier this week, in which I said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Suggestion for Barnaby. Announce today: "Because of circumstances ,I have asked the Prime Minister to have Foreign Minister Bishop stand in for him when he goes to Washington next week".</para></quote>
<para>A tweeter said to me that the Nationals won't do that because it is common sense. No aspersion on you, Senator Cormann—I realise now that the foreign affairs minister will be overseas next week and you will be the Acting Prime Minister.</para>
<para>But I do think, as Senator Wong said, it is untenable. You can't have this person in there, and you as a government shouldn't want it, either. As a government you've been making some traction, you've had the PM getting some traction and getting ahead of Opposition Leader Shorten in the polls. If he goes to Washington next week and is at the White House, with Mr Joyce as Prime Minister, the headlines will all still be about Mr Joyce.</para>
<para class="italic">Senator O'Sullivan interjecting—</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HINCH</name>
    <name.id>2O4</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>You are wrong, Senator O'Sullivan. There is still plenty in this story; there's plenty of stuff going around. I suspect <inline font-style="italic">The Daily Telegraph</inline> and Sharri Markson have had stuff in a file marked 'get you Barnaby' going on for months.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Hinch, please resume your seat. Senator O'Sullivan.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'Sullivan</name>
    <name.id>247871</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>You can't make imputations against another senator.</para>
<para>Honourable senators interjecting—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'SULLIVAN</name>
    <name.id>247871</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>If Senator Hinch knows something he should particularise it and make the allegation. To make imputations—</para>
<para>Honourable senators interjecting—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>That is not a point of order. Order on my left. Senator Hinch.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HINCH</name>
    <name.id>2O4</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I wasn't making aspersions. I was just saying to you, Senator O'Sullivan—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Hinch, I remind you to direct your comments to the chair.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HINCH</name>
    <name.id>2O4</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I shall. I was just making the point that I thought that a comment made by Senator O'Sullivan was wrong. The newspapers haven't run out of stories and I suspect that Sharri Markson and <inline font-style="italic">The Daily Telegraph</inline> still have heaps and heaps and heaps of material that has been marked 'Barnaby'—since about last April, May or June. Who knows—they have had it.</para>
<para>I will go back to the original point. If you had any sense as a party—I'm only one man and the new boy here, but if this were happening to me my staff would be telling me 'Derryn, get back, sit down, apologise, clean up your act.' This is a definite breach of ministerial standards and I think it is a disgrace that he's staying there for one more day.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>There are 29 seconds left on the clock, Senator Canavan.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:32</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CANAVAN</name>
    <name.id>245212</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Is that all? I just want to make the point—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order. Senator Canavan, please resume your seat. Senator Hinch.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:32</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HINCH</name>
    <name.id>2O4</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Sorry, Senator Canavan. I actually forgot to add—</para>
<para>Honourable senators interjecting—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Hinch, you've finished. Resume your seat. Order. Senator Canavan.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Canavan</name>
    <name.id>245212</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>If that clock is correct, I think it's time up.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The time for the debate has expired.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the motion moved by Senator Di Natale be agreed to.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
          <division.header>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [15:37]<br />(The President—Senator Ryan)</p>
            </body>
          </division.header>
          <division.data>
            <ayes>
              <num.votes>35</num.votes>
              <title>AYES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Bartlett, AJJ</name>
                <name>Bilyk, CL</name>
                <name>Brown, CL</name>
                <name>Cameron, DN</name>
                <name>Carr, KJ</name>
                <name>Chisholm, A</name>
                <name>Collins, JMA</name>
                <name>Di Natale, R</name>
                <name>Dodson, P</name>
                <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                <name>Griff, S</name>
                <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                <name>Hinch, D</name>
                <name>Keneally, KK</name>
                <name>Ketter, CR</name>
                <name>Kitching, K</name>
                <name>Lines, S</name>
                <name>Marshall, GM</name>
                <name>McAllister, J</name>
                <name>McKim, NJ</name>
                <name>Moore, CM</name>
                <name>O'Neill, DM</name>
                <name>Patrick, RL</name>
                <name>Polley, H</name>
                <name>Pratt, LC</name>
                <name>Rhiannon, L</name>
                <name>Rice, J</name>
                <name>Siewert, R</name>
                <name>Singh, LM</name>
                <name>Steele-John, J</name>
                <name>Sterle, G</name>
                <name>Urquhart, AE (teller)</name>
                <name>Watt, M</name>
                <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                <name>Wong, P</name>
              </names>
            </ayes>
            <noes>
              <num.votes>31</num.votes>
              <title>NOES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Abetz, E</name>
                <name>Anning, F</name>
                <name>Bernardi, C</name>
                <name>Birmingham, SJ</name>
                <name>Brockman, S</name>
                <name>Burston, B</name>
                <name>Bushby, DC</name>
                <name>Canavan, MJ</name>
                <name>Cash, MC</name>
                <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                <name>Cormann, M</name>
                <name>Duniam, J</name>
                <name>Fawcett, DJ (teller)</name>
                <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                <name>Fifield, MP</name>
                <name>Georgiou, P</name>
                <name>Gichuhi, LM</name>
                <name>Hume, J</name>
                <name>Leyonhjelm, DE</name>
                <name>Macdonald, ID</name>
                <name>McGrath, J</name>
                <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                <name>Molan, AJ</name>
                <name>O'Sullivan, B</name>
                <name>Paterson, J</name>
                <name>Reynolds, L</name>
                <name>Ruston, A</name>
                <name>Ryan, SM</name>
                <name>Seselja, Z</name>
                <name>Smith, D</name>
                <name>Williams, JR</name>
              </names>
            </noes>
            <pairs>
              <num.votes>0</num.votes>
              <title>PAIRS</title>
              <names></names>
            </pairs>
          </division.data>
          <division.result>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to.</p>
            </body>
          </division.result>
        </division><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:40</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DI NATALE</name>
    <name.id>53369</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the motion moved by Senator Di Natale be agreed to.</para>
<para>The Senate divided. [15:45]</para>
<para>(The President—Senator Ryan)</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
          <division.header>
          </division.header>
          <division.data>
            <ayes>
              <num.votes>35</num.votes>
              <title>AYES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Bartlett, AJJ</name>
                <name>Bilyk, CL</name>
                <name>Brown, CL</name>
                <name>Cameron, DN</name>
                <name>Carr, KJ</name>
                <name>Chisholm, A</name>
                <name>Collins, JMA</name>
                <name>Di Natale, R</name>
                <name>Dodson, P</name>
                <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                <name>Griff, S</name>
                <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                <name>Hinch, D</name>
                <name>Keneally, KK</name>
                <name>Ketter, CR</name>
                <name>Kitching, K</name>
                <name>Lines, S</name>
                <name>Marshall, GM</name>
                <name>McAllister, J</name>
                <name>McKim, NJ</name>
                <name>Moore, CM</name>
                <name>O'Neill, DM</name>
                <name>Patrick, RL</name>
                <name>Polley, H</name>
                <name>Pratt, LC</name>
                <name>Rhiannon, L</name>
                <name>Rice, J</name>
                <name>Siewert, R</name>
                <name>Singh, LM</name>
                <name>Steele-John, J</name>
                <name>Sterle, G</name>
                <name>Urquhart, AE (teller)</name>
                <name>Watt, M</name>
                <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                <name>Wong, P</name>
              </names>
            </ayes>
            <noes>
              <num.votes>29</num.votes>
              <title>NOES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Abetz, E</name>
                <name>Anning, F</name>
                <name>Bernardi, C</name>
                <name>Birmingham, SJ</name>
                <name>Brockman, S</name>
                <name>Burston, B</name>
                <name>Bushby, DC</name>
                <name>Canavan, MJ</name>
                <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                <name>Cormann, M</name>
                <name>Duniam, J</name>
                <name>Fawcett, DJ (teller)</name>
                <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                <name>Fifield, MP</name>
                <name>Gichuhi, LM</name>
                <name>Hume, J</name>
                <name>Leyonhjelm, DE</name>
                <name>Macdonald, ID</name>
                <name>McGrath, J</name>
                <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                <name>Molan, AJ</name>
                <name>O'Sullivan, B</name>
                <name>Paterson, J</name>
                <name>Reynolds, L</name>
                <name>Ruston, A</name>
                <name>Ryan, SM</name>
                <name>Seselja, Z</name>
                <name>Smith, D</name>
                <name>Williams, JR</name>
              </names>
            </noes>
            <pairs>
              <num.votes>2</num.votes>
              <title>PAIRS</title>
              <names>
                <name>Farrell, D</name>
                <name>Payne, MA</name>
                <name>Gallagher, KR</name>
                <name>Sinodinos, </name>
              </names>
            </pairs>
          </division.data>
          <division.result>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Senator Cash did not vote, to compensate for the vacancy caused by the resignation of Senator Kakoschke-Moore<br />Senator McCarthy did not vote, to compensate for the vacancy caused by the resignation of Senator  Brandis<br />Question agreed to.</p>
            </body>
          </division.result>
        </division><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:47</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DI NATALE</name>
    <name.id>53369</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate calls on the Deputy Prime Minister to resign from his position of Deputy Prime Minister of Australia for clearly breaching the standards required of Ministers; and if he does not resign, calls on the National Party to sack him as leader.</para></quote>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the motion moved by Senator Di Natale be agreed to.</para>
<para>The Senate divided. [15:51]</para>
<para>(The President—Senator Ryan)</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
          <division.header>
          </division.header>
          <division.data>
            <ayes>
              <num.votes>35</num.votes>
              <title>AYES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Bartlett, AJJ</name>
                <name>Bilyk, CL</name>
                <name>Brown, CL</name>
                <name>Cameron, DN</name>
                <name>Carr, KJ</name>
                <name>Chisholm, A</name>
                <name>Collins, JMA</name>
                <name>Di Natale, R</name>
                <name>Dodson, P</name>
                <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                <name>Griff, S</name>
                <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                <name>Hinch, D</name>
                <name>Keneally, KK</name>
                <name>Ketter, CR</name>
                <name>Kitching, K</name>
                <name>Lines, S</name>
                <name>Marshall, GM</name>
                <name>McAllister, J</name>
                <name>McKim, NJ</name>
                <name>Moore, CM</name>
                <name>O'Neill, DM</name>
                <name>Patrick, RL</name>
                <name>Polley, H</name>
                <name>Pratt, LC</name>
                <name>Rhiannon, L</name>
                <name>Rice, J</name>
                <name>Siewert, R</name>
                <name>Singh, LM</name>
                <name>Steele-John, J</name>
                <name>Sterle, G</name>
                <name>Urquhart, AE (teller)</name>
                <name>Watt, M</name>
                <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                <name>Wong, P</name>
              </names>
            </ayes>
            <noes>
              <num.votes>29</num.votes>
              <title>NOES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Abetz, E</name>
                <name>Anning, F</name>
                <name>Bernardi, C</name>
                <name>Birmingham, SJ</name>
                <name>Brockman, S</name>
                <name>Burston, B</name>
                <name>Bushby, DC</name>
                <name>Canavan, MJ</name>
                <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                <name>Cormann, M</name>
                <name>Duniam, J</name>
                <name>Fawcett, DJ (teller)</name>
                <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                <name>Fifield, MP</name>
                <name>Gichuhi, LM</name>
                <name>Hume, J</name>
                <name>Leyonhjelm, DE</name>
                <name>Macdonald, ID</name>
                <name>McGrath, J</name>
                <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                <name>Molan, AJ</name>
                <name>O'Sullivan, B</name>
                <name>Paterson, J</name>
                <name>Reynolds, L</name>
                <name>Ruston, A</name>
                <name>Ryan, SM</name>
                <name>Seselja, Z</name>
                <name>Smith, D</name>
                <name>Williams, JR</name>
              </names>
            </noes>
            <pairs>
              <num.votes>2</num.votes>
              <title>PAIRS</title>
              <names>
                <name>Farrell, D</name>
                <name>Payne, MA</name>
                <name>Gallagher, KR</name>
                <name>Sinodinos, </name>
              </names>
            </pairs>
          </division.data>
          <division.result>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Senator Cash did not vote, to compensate for the vacancy caused by the resignation of Senator Kakoschke-Moore<br />Senator McCarthy did not vote, to compensate for the vacancy caused by the resignation of Senator  Brandis<br />Question agreed to.</p>
            </body>
          </division.result>
        </division></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE: TAKE NOTE OF ANSWERS</title>
        <page.no>71</page.no>
        <type>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE: TAKE NOTE OF ANSWERS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Payday Lending</title>
          <page.no>71</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:54</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate take note of the answer given by the Minister for Finance (Senator Cormann) to a question without notice asked by Senator Marshall today relating to payday lenders.</para></quote>
<para>I know it's some time ago, after all of the debates we have just held, but the topic of the answer that I am taking note of concerns the government's continued failure to take action against payday lenders. It's not surprising that they are failing to take action against this insidious form of credit, because, if you believe half of the media reports that are circulating at the moment—the ones not about the Deputy Prime Minister—it seems yet another parliamentary friends group has been created in this place: the 'Parliamentary Friends of Payday Lenders'. If there were one organisation or group in the community you would want to associate yourself with, you wouldn't have payday lenders up there, but it seems a number of government members are cosying up to payday lenders, defending their interests against the needs of poor and vulnerable people, and have brought pressure to bear on the government to the extent that the government has withdrawn legislation it was working on.</para>
<para>It's particularly disappointing that some of the names circulating as those who've been fighting hardest for the interests of payday lenders in this parliament have been National Party members—or LNP members, as we call them in Queensland—who represent rural and regional electorates with great degrees of poverty. We know very well that payday lenders prey particularly on the poorest and most vulnerable people in our communities, people who have run out of other credit options and who are forced into a position where, simply in order to pay their bills and get by from week to week, they take out loans at exorbitant rates, which spiral up, with the result that they owe, in some cases, hundreds or thousands of dollars more than they originally borrowed. I'm very surprised, for instance, to see the member for Dawson, Mr Christensen, being one of the most vocal supporters of payday lenders. He knows very well that his electorate has substantial pockets of poverty in it. Rather than coming into this house and defending his constituents from the rapacious payday lenders who are ripping them off, he's siding with those very same payday lenders.</para>
<para>I'm pleased, though, with the significant efforts by Labor representatives who've taken up this cause in parliament of late—in particular, our shadow minister for consumer affairs, Tim Hammond, and my Queensland Labor colleague the member for Oxley, Milton Dick. I know that builds on the work of Senator Cameron and many others on this issue over many years. We want to see much tighter regulation of payday lending. We think that it is a good idea to put some caps on the amount that debts can climb by, so that people don't get themselves into a situation where they might borrow to buy an appliance whose shelf price is a few hundred dollars, only to find a couple of years down the track that they've ended up being charged in the thousands of dollars, because of the outrageous interest rates that are imposed upon those borrowers by payday lenders. Those figures are no exaggeration. There are many instances where people are signing up to initial loans for hundreds of dollars which, by the end of their loan, end up being thousands of dollars, literally. That is absolutely wrong, and we should be taking action against it.</para>
<para>That's why Labor has introduced a private member's bill to take some action against these payday lenders. It's very surprising that, because of this pressure that has been imposed upon ministers by government members such as the member for Dawson, they have backed off introducing legislation that would have done something about this problem. But rather than let this issue lapse, Labor is grasping the nettle. We have introduced a private member's bill in exactly the same terms as the bill which was proposed by the government. If they are not prepared to take some action against payday lenders, then Labor most certainly will. Far too many people in our community are hurting as a result of payday lenders, and this kind of legislation will make a difference. When this bill goes before the parliament, it will be a real test for people like the member for Dawson, the member for Capricornia and the member for Forde—LNP representatives of areas with great poverty and people being ripped off. If they're on the side of their constituents and want to stop the rip-offs, they'll vote with Labor, but if they want to side yet again with Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull and his big business mates, they'll vote against it.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:00</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DUNIAM</name>
    <name.id>263418</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>It is a pleasure to rise and speak on the matter asked about by Senator Watt earlier today. It is refreshing to actually speak on something that is of relevance to ordinary Australians, as opposed to the subject matter we covered for most of question time today and a good period of time post question time. I take into account the points that were made by Senator Cameron on the doors—that Australians are sick and tired of talking about things that don't matter to them. It's a refreshing change to talk about something that is relevant to ordinary Australians and how they manage their household budgets.</para>
<para>It is interesting, as always, to listen to Senator Watt make his contributions on taking note. He's a very articulate man. I'm sure he does his research well. But he did make the point that a lot of what he was talking about is based on media reports around a particular supposed friendship group which exists in the parliament and fulfilled certain functions. It is one with which I'm not familiar and one I've not heard of myself but one, nonetheless, Senator Watt refers to in vague terms while trying to claim that this group of individuals who are members of it wield some amazing amount of authority in the party room. I think it may just be salacious reporting, but we'll have to wait and see as time goes forward.</para>
<para>No-one in this place, I think, denies that we need to ensure that vulnerable members of our community are well looked after and protected from predatory entities that may be preying on those who do require certain amounts of cash in short time frame. We've heard reports of this quite often, particularly in communities like those Senator Watt referred to: regional and rural communities, where sometimes work is hard to come by and it is a struggle to make ends meet. So you have families who, maybe in order to buy their kids their school uniform for the beginning of the school year, to pay the power bill or things like that, need to access funds in a very short time frame. And often these payday loans, as they've been referred to, are a product that these people access. It's important to ensure that the laws around these entities are ones that protect the consumer, because we've sometimes seen larger financial institutions and some smaller ones do things that could be construed as taking advantage of vulnerable consumers.</para>
<para>Of course, it's important to point out that there was a review into small-amount credit contract laws and whether these particular laws should be extended to consumer leases. That review was undertaken under the requirements of the National Consumer Credit Protection Act 2009. The government was fulfilling an obligation which came out of those laws which was specifically targeted at protecting individuals and ensuring that the rights of consumers were protected.</para>
<para>That report came back to government in March 2016, and the response to that particular report was released in November of 2016. Of course, the government's response supported the vast majority of the review's recommendations, including retaining existing price caps on small-amount credit contracts, extending the small-amount credit contract-protected earnings amount requirement to all consumers and lowering it to 10 per cent of the consumer's net income. It also talks about introducing a cap on total payments on a consumer lease equal to the base price of the good plus four per cent of that price per month and introducing a protected earnings amount requirement for consumer lease providers of 10 per cent of net income for all consumers. Also, it's important to note that the government did release an exposure draft to implement the response in October of last year.</para>
<para>These are all important steps the government is taking. This is quite the contrast to the suggestions being made by Senator Watt, that there's this group of mysterious individuals roaming the corridors of this building—members of this 'friendship group'—trying to dictate to government what they'll do when it comes to consumer protection in relation to credit products. It's important, but, as I said at the beginning of my contribution, it's refreshing to talk about something that is actually relevant to Australians, rather than the matters that we've been discussing in question time. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:05</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator MARSHALL</name>
    <name.id>00AOP</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>In answer to the question that I asked of Minister Cormann today, I got a response that has been backed up rather feebly by Senator Duniam. He said, 'Of course we don't have reckless National Party members dictating to the government on economic policy.' But the reality is very different. If we are to believe Senator Duniam's assurances, he's also going to say that this is a mysterious group and it doesn't exist. But the problem with that argument, really, is that Mr George Christensen has self-identified as part of that group. It's not a mysterious, secret group; it is a group. He's out there, and it's reported in the press. And it is being reported in the press because he's told them so! He's directly quoted as being part of that.</para>
<para>Now, the assurances that we received from the ministers and that we received from senators on the other side is that they actually care about the issue, 'We're considering our response, we've got things in train and we've got some legislation ready to go'—even though we haven't seen it yet—'but trust us; it's going to get there because the National Party isn't the tail that's wagging the Liberal Party dog.' That's what they try to tell us: the National Party is not the tail wagging the Liberal Party dog.</para>
<para>Now, you might think that that could be true, based on the numbers in the National Party versus the Liberal Party, unless we look at the track record. Let's look at the track record of the National Party tail wagging the Liberal Party dog. You only have to look at one of the biggest issues where we saw a backflip: the royal commission into the banking system. How many times did we see the very minister here today saying: 'The Nationals aren't dictating our policy to us on the banking royal commission. There's no need to have one. We don't need one; it's all under control, it's all happening'? But the very same National Party members who were pursuing that proposition kept at it and at it and at it, and where did we see that land? All of a sudden, the government takes the position: 'Oh! We've now had another think about it: we do need a royal commission into the banks'—something that we'd been telling them for a long, long time. But it took those same National Party people from within their coalition to actually make them do it. Why? Because they are the tail that is wagging the Liberal Party dog on economic policy.</para>
<para>We've not only seen it there, we've seen it in numerous examples all over the place. So when we get the rather feeble assurances from those opposite, and the rather curt assurances from the minister, forgive us for thinking that we don't necessarily believe those. That's why we've introduced a private member's bill that does exactly what they say they as a government should be doing with respect to payday lenders.</para>
<para>So they'll have an opportunity, even though they'll hedge and they'll try to squib it and try to avoid the issue, because the National Party, as we know, will keep undermining the proposition and setting up friends of payday lenders groups to lobby the government. We've seen the effectiveness of that in the past. But they will still have an opportunity to do what's right, because we will make them do it. We will give them that option, to actually do what's right and to implement what they know they should be doing—and that is, cutting back the opportunities for predatory lending behaviour in this country.</para>
<para>They know it's a problem. It's a significant problem. And the irony is that it's in National Party seats that it's one of the biggest problems—that's where it's one of the biggest problems. It's a problem across the country, but it's one of the biggest problems in those seats. Some of the seats that have the lowest socioeconomic groupings in this country are National Party seats, and they're where a lot of this problem of predatory lending happens. We see all the time people who have borrowed hundreds of dollars to get themselves out of an immediate problem and then, in a process of multiplying interest rates—incredibly high interest rates—it leads, in some cases, to tens of thousands of dollars due to be paid back, simply for a couple of hundred dollars.</para>
<para>People never get out of that downward spiral, and it's because some of these predators—and I call them 'predators'—feed on the opportunities that they have to exploit people in vulnerable positions. We want to move to regulate that. The government know they ought to be doing it, but the National Party won't let them do it, and the government need to stand up to the National Party. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:10</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator COLBECK</name>
    <name.id>00AOL</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>You really have to wonder where Senator Marshall has been hiding, because—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Moore</name>
    <name.id>00AOQ</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>We know where you were hiding!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator COLBECK</name>
    <name.id>00AOL</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I wasn't hiding, Senator Moore—I was in plain view. As alluded to by Senator Moore, I have been out of this place for a little while. But, when you consider that Senator Marshall has just said he hasn't seen any legislation from the government in relation to this supposedly very important issue, you wonder what he was doing on 23 October last year, when the draft exposure legislation was released by the government.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Chisholm</name>
    <name.id>39801</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>We just want you to pass it! Why won't you pass it?</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator COLBECK</name>
    <name.id>00AOL</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Where was he? He said he hadn't even seen it. He comes into the chamber, expressing such concern about the importance of this issue, and yet he has not even read the exposure draft of legislation that was released by the government last year in response to the inquiry that this government set up into small-amount credit contracts.</para>
<para>This government has taken action in respect of the issue. It's conducted the review. It's received the recommendations. It has responded to the recommendations, as Senator Duniam said before. About the only thing the Labor Party has is some conspiracy about a mythical phantom group that has one member—one member is all we know of. Now, George is a big guy, but he's hardly a group! He's just one person. Just because he's talking about it in the media, it doesn't mean that that's what the rest of us think. We acknowledge that consumers need appropriate protection around this matter. For the opposition to come into this place, complaining about the urgency and the importance of the issue and to then admit that they haven't even seen the exposure draft of the legislation completely puts paid to any semblance of reality about the supposed concerns.</para>
<para>In respect of the government's response to the review on small amount credit contract laws, as Senator Duniam said, the government's response supports retaining existing price caps on contracts, extending protected earnings amount requirements to all consumers and lowering it to 10 per cent of the consumer's net income—and it's a lot higher for some other people in the current circumstances—and introducing a cap on total payments on a consumer release equal to the base price of the good plus four per cent of that price per month. So there are some realistic changes to the way the current process is working, supported by the government: introducing a protected-earnings amount requirement for consumer lease providers of 10 per cent of net income for all consumers, equivalent but separate to the requirements for small-amount credit contracts.</para>
<para>Of course we have released exposure draft legislation. But the opposition claims it hasn't even seen the legislation. I think what we have here this afternoon is little more than a National Party-bashing exercise. That's about what we have: an extension of question time and the events immediately after question time. It is just a National Party-bashing exercise, and the Labor Party has nothing to show for it. It claims that it's concerned about this issue. It puts nothing on the table about that. It talks about development of a private member's bill, yet it hasn't even read the existing piece of exposure legislation that sits there for it to have a look at. What is your perspective on the exposure draft? Do you have a view?</para>
<para>Have you made any comments to the government in respect of the exposure draft that was released on 23 October 2017? What is your perspective? You claim to have real concerns about this matter and yet one of your senators comes into this place today and says that they haven't seen any legislation.</para>
<para>What rock have you been hiding under? Yes, I've been out of this place, but it's clear that the government has had a clear path of action on this matter over a period of time, and the opposition hasn't made a case in respect of the questions asked in question time. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:15</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CHISHOLM</name>
    <name.id>39801</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>We actually have seen that exposure draft legislation. We picked it up, word for word, and submitted it as a private member's bill, so they'll have an opportunity. They've done nothing. They've become captive to the payday lenders and the shonks out there. That's who they've become captive to. We're going to stand up for these people, so we've submitted a private member's bill. It's up to them to have a vote on it, but we know who they represent.</para>
<para>It has been an extraordinary week for the National Party in this place. We know that they've become captive to the payday lenders. We know that they've become the drivers of the 'Parliamentary Friends of Payday Lenders'. We've also seen in this extraordinary week how divided the coalition is in this place. We saw no better example of that than in the last hour, when the Deputy Prime Minister was under significant pressure. The Nationals did their best to defend him—it was pretty lame—but in the Senate did we see one Liberal stand up and defend him? Not one. This shows you the division between the Liberals and the Nationals when it comes to defending the Deputy Prime Minister.</para>
<para>This division also has consequences for people. The consequences are that people are being ripped off. They are being ripped off because this government won't progress the legislation that is going to crack down on the people doing this unscrupulous work. They try to dismiss the 'Parliamentary Friends of Payday Lenders', but George Christensen put his name to it. He was prepared to say that he was putting pressure on the government to back down. This is the same National Party that represents some of the poorest electorates in the country. I know that, in my own state of Queensland, Wide Bay is represented by a National. It shows you who they are prepared to defend—that is, big business, at the expense of those who can least afford it. We've seen continuing examples of George Christensen, the member for Dawson, dictating policy to the Liberal Party. It is something that is having a direct consequence on people in regional Queensland.</para>
<para>These predatory loan sharks and these shonky rent-to-buy traps have been exposed through the process, but the government is walking away from the reforms. Mums, dads and families have fallen victim to these unscrupulous operators and lenders and to those peddling the mercenary rent-to-buy schemes. That is the side that the Liberals and Nationals have chosen to be on over this week. They are either too distracted by their own internal problems or too paralysed by division—probably a mixture of both—to actually represent the people who need it.</para>
<para>I give full credit to my good friend the member for Oxley, Milton Dick, and the shadow minister and member for Perth, Tim Hammond, who have put maximum pressure on the government over that this week. This is so important. They've been working with community groups, church groups and other community organisations, to expose why this is actually an urgent proposition. The government's own report found some examples where families were paying over $3,000 for basic household goods that would usually cost just over $345. The response from those opposite is just to turn a blind eye—this isn't an important matter; there is no urgency.</para>
<para>Other examples include a person on Newstart buying goods valued at $1,550 for $5,668 and being told that the contract they were entering into was for one year; however, it was for two years. Furthermore, the customer thought that they were buying goods, but instead were only renting them. This is the type of behaviour that the government is letting continue.</para>
<para>Centrelink recipients have been shown to be ripped off by these unscrupulous practices as well. For instance, a freezer with a retail price of $319 cost one recipient over $1,000, with an equivalent interest rate of 372 per cent. One reported case had a consumer getting a loan from a rent-to-buy scheme for $350 to buy a washing machine, and it ended up costing the consumer over $3,500 to pay back because there was no tail end to it.</para>
<para>These are some of the practices that have been exposed through the government processes that led to the draft legislation, yet they continue to sit on it. So Labor will absolutely apply maximum pressure to the Liberals and the Nationals. We want them to deliver this legislation because this cannot continue. The Labor Party will absolutely stand up for those who are vulnerable to loan sharks and this sort of predatory behaviour.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Transurban Group</title>
          <page.no>76</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:20</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RICE</name>
    <name.id>155410</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate take note of the answer given by the Minister for Indigenous Affairs (Senator Scullion) to a question without notice asked by Senator Rice today relating to toll roads.</para></quote>
<para>It was interesting that we were in question time. There is a reason why it's called 'question time' and not 'answer time'. We did not get any answer to any of my very serious questions from the Minister representing the Minister for Infrastructure and Transport. Of course, the Minister for Infrastructure and Transport is a certain Deputy Prime Minister, Barnaby Joyce, who obviously has other things on his mind at the moment, and it's very clear that Minister Scullion was not well briefed by Minister Joyce about the very serious issue about the obscene, staggering profits being made by Transurban, who have a virtual monopoly on toll road operations around the country, who run 13 out of the 16 toll roads around the country and whose profits increased threefold to $331 million in the last six months.</para>
<para>We had the ACCC chair, Rod Sims, quoted in the press this morning as saying, 'I think we have pushed maximising revenue to the detriment of the road system,' and yet the government are completely missing in action. They don't see any role for the federal government to be dealing with this issue, where we have this major company ripping off the community, making huge, huge profits and paying no tax despite making those massive profits. It is paying no tax, and meanwhile, despite having all of those toll roads around the cities in our country, people are still stuck in traffic. They are paying exorbitant and escalating tolls, yet these toll roads aren't solving our transport problems in Australia.</para>
<para>And yet the federal government is basically saying: 'Nothing we can do; nothing to see here. We'll just let the market go on. We'll let the market go on ripping people off with tolls and basically having city planning being privatised, being outsourced to Transurban.'</para>
<para>Of course, the real answer to solving congestion in our cities is to be investing in city-shaping public transport, yet we have next to no money being invested by this government in public transport. What is the minister's response as to why this isn't happening? No answer.</para>
<para>The other issue, of course, regarding Transurban is the statement which I asked the minister about today, the statement made by their CEO, who claimed that, in the past, false traffic modelling and data had been used to bolster the case for toll roads where companies were bidding for contracts. He was implying that Transurban aren't doing that. Yet we know that, in Victoria, this is the very thing that Transurban have been accused of doing with their very own West Gate toll road. We know that there is transport modelling and the independent peer review of the West Gate toll road that have not been made public.</para>
<para>I have raised this question in estimates and asked Infrastructure Australia whether this information has been made available to them so that they could do an assessment of the value of this toll road in solving our traffic problems in Melbourne. Infrastructure Australia said they asked the Victorian government for it, but the Victorian government have not been forthcoming. They've requested it multiple times, and it still hasn't been forthcoming. You can only presume that the very behaviour that the CEO of Transurban, Scott Charlton, was accusing other companies of doing—of having incredibly dodgy data and dodgy modelling to support their toll road—is exactly what Transurban have been doing themselves.</para>
<para>If they haven't been doing that then they need to come clean. They need to say to the Victorian government: 'I think the independent peer review that was done of our road should be made public. It should be made available to Infrastructure Australia.' It should be made available to the community so we can judge for ourselves whether this massive polluting toll road is really a good deal for Victoria and for Melburnians. As it stands at the moment, it doesn't stack up. We've got Transurban operating in cahoots with the Victorian Labor government, and meanwhile the federal government here is just turning a blind eye to it all.</para>
<para>The final thing, of course, is that one thing that we know potentially has a big place in this space is looking at road user charging. There are issues, and pros and cons, and we need to examine them. The federal government announced 18 months ago that it was going to have an inquiry into road user charging, and it was going to have an eminent Australian who was going to head up this review. Eighteen months on, we haven't even seen hide nor hair of that eminent Australian, let alone an inquiry that would be so critical for this issue.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>76</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Membership</title>
          <page.no>76</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:26</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! The President has received a letter requesting changes in the membership of various committees.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:26</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIERRAVANTI-WELLS</name>
    <name.id>e4t</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That Senator Keneally be appointed to committees as set out in the document circulated in the chamber:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Community Affairs Legislation Committee</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Economics Legislation Committee</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Education and Employment Legislation and References Committees</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Environment and Communications Legislation Committee</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Finance and Public Administration Legislation and References Committees</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Legislation and References Committees</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Legal and Constitutional Affairs Legislation and References Committees</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport Legislation and References Committees</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Participating member: Senator Keneally</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>77</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Naval Group Australia, Murray-Darling Basin, Indigenous Housing</title>
          <page.no>77</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>77</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:26</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIERRAVANTI-WELLS</name>
    <name.id>e4t</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I table documents relating to the orders for the production of documents concerning the Future Submarine Project, the Northern Basin Review and the National Partnership Agreement on Remote Housing.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>77</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Regulations and Ordinances Committee</title>
          <page.no>77</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Delegated Legislation Monitor</title>
            <page.no>77</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:26</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SMITH</name>
    <name.id>241710</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>On behalf of the Chair of the Senate Standing Committee on Regulations and Ordinances, I present Delegated Legislation Monitor 2 of 2018.</para>
<para>Ordered that the document be printed.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Human Rights Committee, Senate Publications Committee</title>
          <page.no>77</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Report</title>
            <page.no>77</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:27</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SMITH</name>
    <name.id>241710</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Pursuant to order and at the request of the chairs of the respective committees, I present the second report of 2018, <inline font-style="italic">Human rights scrutiny report</inline>,from the Parliamentary Joint Committee on Human Rights, and the 13th report of the Senate Standing Committee on Publications.</para>
<para>Ordered that the reports be printed.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BUDGET</title>
        <page.no>77</page.no>
        <type>BUDGET</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Consideration by Estimates Committees</title>
          <page.no>77</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:27</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SMITH</name>
    <name.id>241710</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>On behalf of the respective chairs, I present additional information received by the following committees in relation to estimates:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Finance and Public Administration Legislation Committee</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Legislation Committee</para></quote>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>77</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Community Affairs Legislation Committee, Environment and Communications Legislation Committee</title>
          <page.no>77</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Additional Information</title>
            <page.no>77</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:27</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SMITH</name>
    <name.id>241710</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I present additional information received by committees as listed at item 15 of today's <inline font-style="italic">Order of Business</inline>:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Community Affairs Legislation Committee—Report—Therapeutic Goods Amendment (2017 Measures No. 1) Bill 2017 [Provisions] and Therapeutic Goods (Charges) Amendment Bill 2017 [Provisions]</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Environment and Communications Legislation Committee—Report—Communications Legislation Amendment (Online Content Services and Other Measures) Bill 2017</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Environment and Communications References Committee—Report—Shark mitigation and deterrent measures</para></quote>
<para>Ordered that the documents be printed.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Scrutiny of Bills Committee</title>
          <page.no>78</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Scrutiny Digest</title>
            <page.no>78</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:27</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator URQUHART</name>
    <name.id>231199</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I present <inline font-style="italic">Scrutiny Digest</inline> No. 2 of 2018 of the Standing Committee for the Scrutiny of Bills.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>National Disability Insurance Scheme</title>
          <page.no>78</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Report</title>
            <page.no>78</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:27</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator URQUHART</name>
    <name.id>231199</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I present the report of the Joint Standing Committee on the National Disability Insurance Scheme on <inline font-style="italic">Transitional </inline><inline font-style="italic">a</inline><inline font-style="italic">rrangements for the NDIS</inline>, together with the Hansard record of proceedings and documents presented to the committee. I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate take note of the report.</para></quote>
<para>I seek leave to continue my remarks later.</para>
<para>Leave granted; debate adjourned.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Select Committee on Red Tape</title>
          <page.no>78</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Report</title>
            <page.no>78</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:28</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LEYONHJELM</name>
    <name.id>111206</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I present an interim report of the Senate Select Committee on Red Tape, <inline font-style="italic">Effect of red tape on pharmacy rules</inline>, together with the Hansard record of proceedings and documents presented to the committee. I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate take note of the report</para></quote>
<para>I seek leave to continue my remarks later</para>
<para>Leave granted; debate adjourned.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>MOTIONS</title>
        <page.no>78</page.no>
        <type>MOTIONS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Advisory Council on Australian Archives</title>
          <page.no>78</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:28</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I've received a letter from a party leader nominating a senator to be a member of the Advisory Council on Australian Archives.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:28</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIERRAVANTI-WELLS</name>
    <name.id>e4t</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That, in accordance with the provisions of the <inline font-style="italic">Archives Act 1983</inline>, the Senate elect Senator Moore to be a member of the Advisory Council on Australian Archives for a period of 3 years, on and from today.</para></quote>
<para>Senator Moore is a very good appointment, and I wish her well in her deliberations.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Minister. I'm sure we all concur.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BILLS</title>
        <page.no>78</page.no>
        <type>BILLS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Restoring Territory Rights (Assisted Suicide Legislation) Bill 2015</title>
          <page.no>78</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" style="" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" background="">
            <a href="s1030" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Restoring Territory Rights (Assisted Suicide Legislation) Bill 2015</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>78</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:29</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIERRAVANTI-WELLS</name>
    <name.id>e4t</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak on the Restoring Territory Rights (Assisted Suicide Legislation) Bill 2015 and, of course, this is one of those very, very difficult issues of conscience. Can I say at the outset, before I make some personal remarks, I do want to set out some parameters and indicate that the government does not plan to repeal the Euthanasia Laws Act 1997 and has no intention of reconsidering the self-governing acts of the Northern Territory or the Australian Capital Territory at this time.</para>
<para>The Australian government recognises that members of the community have strong views about dying with dignity, compassion and minimal pain. The underlying principle of our investment in health services is quality of life, and this includes, of course, end-of-life care. The Australian government believes that people should have access to quality palliative care and relief from pain and suffering and that, where possible, people should be able to choose the extent of active medical treatment they receive.</para>
<para>The Australian government provides funding for a number of initiatives to encourage delivery of quality palliative care and to improve access to services for people who are dying, including advanced care planning and the documentation of end-of-life care wishes. The Australian government will monitor and consider the impacts of the Victorian voluntary assisted dying legislation on various programs, noting that the Victorian legislation will come into effect from mid-2019.</para>
<para>Euthanasia was unlawful in Australia in all states and territories until the passage of the Voluntary Assisted Dying Bill 2017 in Victoria in November 2017. State governments are generally responsible for laws pertaining to voluntary assisted dying and euthanasia. Recently, several states and territories have revisited their voluntary assisted dying and euthanasia laws. On 22 November in Victoria, the Voluntary Assisted Dying Bill 2017 passed the upper house, and it passed the lower house on 29 November 2017. As I said, the legislation comes into effect from 19 June 2019.</para>
<para>In New South Wales, the Voluntary Assisted Dying Bill 2017 was defeated in the New South Wales Legislative Council on 16 November 2017 by one vote—20 votes to 19—and I'm very pleased, as a senator from New South Wales, that that did happen.</para>
<para>In Western Australia, the parliament has established the Joint Select Committee on End of Life Choices to inquire into the need for laws in Western Australia to allow citizens to make informed decisions about their own end-of-life choices. The committee is due to report by 23 August 2018.</para>
<para>In the ACT, the government established a Legislative Assembly committee to examine end-of-life choices in the ACT. The committee will report its findings to the assembly by the last sitting week of 2018. The Commonwealth euthanasia laws would need to be repealed for the ACT to legislate for voluntary assisted dying. The Commonwealth Euthanasia Laws Act 1997, which inserted limited provisions into the self-government acts of the Australian Capital Territory and the Northern Territory, prohibits the legislative assemblies of the ACT and the Northern Territory from making laws permitting euthanasia.</para>
<para>The Commonwealth government is carefully considering any possible interaction between the Voluntary Assisted Dying Act 2017, which was recently passed in Victoria, and relevant Commonwealth provisions. We do not, as I said, support the establishment of national voluntary euthanasia laws. We don't propose to repeal those laws, and we have no intention of reconsidering the self-governing acts of the Northern Territory or the Australian Capital Territory at this time.</para>
<para>Under the Therapeutic Goods Administration and the Office of Drug Control, there are approved medicines that, in various combinations and in high doses, could be used to effect euthanasia; for example, anaesthetics, painkillers, sedatives and neuromuscular blockers. These medicines would not require specific import for this purpose.</para>
<para>The use of such existing medicines in those combinations would be considered an off-label use—that is, outside the current TGA registered indications for these products. This is not illegal, but off-label use must be in accordance with good medical practice. The Medical Board of Australia is responsible for defining such practice. Preparation of a specific combination of high-dose medicines could—but not necessarily—be carried out by a compounding pharmacist within the state of Victoria. Compounding by a pharmacist for an individual named patient is regulated by state law and not Commonwealth law.</para>
<para>The potential to import specific drugs to facilitate euthanasia rather than using combinations may require the issue of an import licence from the Office of Drug Control if the substance to be imported is otherwise a prohibited substance. There are provisions under the Therapeutic Goods Act 1989 whereby doctors may obtain access under the special access scheme to unregistered medicines where such use is medically required. The Medical Benefits Schedule does not provide specific benefits for specific euthanasia related services and, at present, the Pharmaceutical Benefits Advisory Committee, the PBAC, has not recommended a medicine for listing on the PBS for euthanasia purposes.</para>
<para>I wanted to give these parameters as a preface to our position, but I now want to add, if I can, some personal reflections on this issue. Recently, of course, we had the debate in the Victorian parliament. It was certainly a very emotional debate and it is—as it was in the New South Wales parliament. What was very clear from the Victorian debate was that there was opposition to this. In particular, the Australian Medical Association, Palliative Care Victoria and other organisations opposed it; and, of course, church members and faith leaders also came out against it.</para>
<para>Can I say that the taking of one's life—whether it be a son or a daughter, a brother or a sister, or a mother or a father—is a crime under the Commonwealth legislation and it is a crime under state law. I have spent many, many years involved in voluntary work in the community since the early eighties. At the age of 23, I was a founding board director of a nursing home in the Illawarra. So issues of ageing have been of particular concern to me, especially in culturally and linguistically diverse communities. To have a situation where potentially the sick, the disabled, the mentally ill and the elderly, often at the most vulnerable time in their life and often in circumstances where they cannot make decisions for themselves—to simply say that we can take that life, to me, is from a faith perspective not right. And from a humanity perspective it is not right either. Of course, we know that there are people who do want to push for voluntary assisted dying. I think it is the thin end of the wedge. We know that this has been the subject of consideration by various committees in the past. But I believe there is a silent majority in Australia who do not believe that voluntary assisted dying in our society is a road that we should be going down.</para>
<para>As I said, I have been involved since the early 1980s, and have seen so many different aspects of ageing and aged care. Indeed, I was a shadow minister for ageing. At that time, I had the opportunity to visit about a third of the aged-care facilities in this country. Of course, when you go through an aged-care facility, you often see people there who have no-one or who have only one or two people. One of the things that struck me very much, particularly now as we have so many people who have dementia, was that about two-thirds of the people who are in our nursing homes have dementia. It is one of the most heartbreaking things that I have seen.</para>
<para>There's another side to the whole ageing issue: I used to call it the 'three Gs' when I was the shadow minister. A former minister passed that to me and said, 'This is how I refer to it.' They are the three Gs: grief, because you are grieving—you are putting a loved one in an aged-care facility; guilt, because you feel that you can't look after them and you feel bad; and greed. Regrettably, if we have the situation where we do have euthanasia laws, I think that it is the third of these that could give licence to people who might be persuaded that this is the best thing for their mother, brother, sister or whoever—most especially their mother or father—and, therefore, they are encouraged to euthanase.</para>
<para>My father died a number of years ago through dementia. When I saw what he went through, particularly as an older person from a culturally and linguistically diverse background, it was very difficult. They're really the people in our society that I am particularly concerned about, because often they can't speak English very well. Sorry, this is a little difficult. They really are the people who I feel may be most vulnerable. Therefore, what I think is really important, as we consider these sorts of laws, is to make sure that we have good palliative care available—because, in the end, good palliative care is so important.</para>
<para>It's also very important that we provide support in our residential facilities to enable people to be comfortable at the end of life. Often, many people who have dementia get to a particular point when they say, 'That's it.' I don't know what happens. I know with my own dad that about three months before he passed away, he actually did recognise me, which was really good. My father had been suffering from dementia for about three or four years. And then one day he just suddenly decided that that was it, and he stopped eating. Then a week later he passed away. But my father was fortunate. He had good care; he had a family around him. He had somebody who understood the system and was able to ensure that he had the best of care. But not everybody is in those circumstances.</para>
<para>I know that we as legislators here always want to do the best; we always want to make sure that we put in place the best possible framework and the best possible parameters to assist people. This is an area that gives licence to take away a human life, particularly in certain circumstances; they may be financial or others. Unfortunately, if you do have this available, I think that it is the thin edge of the wedge. I think that it will lead to loss of life—taking life—in those circumstances. As a Christian and as somebody who doesn't believe in taking life like this, I think that it is something that will be very detrimental to our society.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>247512</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you for sharing your story, Senator Fierravanti-Wells.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:45</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator JACINTA COLLINS</name>
    <name.id>GB6</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I too thank Senator Fierravanti-Wells for her contribution—both the personal and the broader policy considerations. They are very pertinent.</para>
<para>I might commence by briefly reflecting on some of the background to this matter. I asked colleagues in the chamber earlier today about who still remained in the Senate from when we considered the Andrews bill in 1997. There are four of us: Senator Macdonald, who was in continuation on the last occasion when this matter was being discussed, Senator Carr, me and Senator Abetz. As we reflect on the relatively high turnover of the Senate in recent times, it is interesting to note that there are only four of us who were here in 1997—20 years ago—who still remain.</para>
<para>When I reflect on that discussion—and it is perhaps the last time I dealt with my own views on this issue—it happened in a different context and it was done in a different manner. Earlier this week I made a brief statement in relation to formal business, or housekeeping as we call it, and I'll make a similar reflection now. I thank Senator Leyonhjelm for raising this matter. It's a very important issue, and it certainly warrants senators discussing issues such as this regularly, but I'm not sure that the general business part of our program is the best way to proceed with a bill of this character. It will surprise Senator Leyonhjelm to know when the last occasion the Restoring Territory Rights (Assisted Suicide Legislation) Bill 2015 was before us. It was as long as 12 months ago. Twelve months ago, 16 February, we had some second reading debate speeches and then nothing further in relation to the debate on this bill.</para>
<para>So last year was the last time, but there have been a few other occasions where this issue has also been raised; however, never with the priority that was accorded this matter when, back with the Andrews bill, the Howard government ceded government business time for that bill to be addressed as part of government business. Indeed, the program for the Senate during the time in which it was debated allowed time for all senators to seriously consider the issues, to inform themselves on the matter, to respond to the public debate on the issue, and, indeed, to form their views. I don't think the piecemeal way in which general business deals with issues, which is in snippets, is the best way for an issue as serious as this to be addressed and to be brought to the fore of the minds of all senators concerned.</para>
<para>Perhaps the other personal reflection I would make, Senator Fierravanti-Wells, still here in the chamber, is that my personal experience didn't really fit your 'three Gs' characterisation. I was very fortunate. I, like you, had all the resources of someone in senior public office. It was ahead of the period when I was the Minister for Mental Health and Ageing, but I'm a professionally qualified social worker; I know how to work systems. I could identify the elements that would best assist in the situation, but even I was confounded by the funding arrangements at the time. Of course, for families contemplating putting a family member into aged care, to understand even the basic funding arrangements, to make the financial arrangements to best care for their family member and then to supplement them with all the other known supports that will ensure quality of care is a matter, I think, we're yet to succeed on. Palliative care is the other side to that situation. But, even ahead of palliative care, the transition between acute hospital care and aged care is one where, if someone doesn't have a very proactive family member, it is all too easy for hospital teams to conclude that not much more can be done.</para>
<para>I remember my father, after his first stroke, went into rehabilitation arrangements, and we made a transition back home. I remember the next occasion when he had a stroke and ended up in acute care. The suggestion was that his cognitive capacity, due to dementia, was such that not much more could be done. We ignored that advice. Our government of the day, I think, had established a transitionary rehabilitation program where those things could be measured outside of an acute hospital environment. My father was able to return to one of the joys of older people, which is being able to consume good food rather than live the remainder of his life consuming slush, because he had family members that could advocate and could work within a system to ensure the quality of his care was the best he could receive.</para>
<para>The final point I'd like to make, without going into too much detail—though I probably could—is a credit to Villa Maria. He was placed in a nursing home that was established probably about 15 years prior as what we would regard as best practice. It had dated a little bit by then, and it wasn't the best practice in dementia care as we could consider it at the time. But the care and the preparedness to go above and beyond routines is what that home and that organisation offers a lot of elderly Australians, and I want to pay credit to them.</para>
<para>With that background, let me say that voluntary euthanasia is a serious issue with a profound effect on all in our community. All of us would have a story. Too often it is characterised by simplistic and emotional language and reporting which hampers a reasoned debate, which is part of my reflection on dealing with matters such as this in a piecemeal fashion. My opposition to voluntary euthanasia is twofold: firstly, that it cannot be safely legalised; and, secondly, that euthanasia laws pose profound risks to many people who are ill, vulnerable and/or disabled. I have the deepest sympathy for people in severe pain and distress who are terminally ill and seek relief from their suffering. Palliative care, as I mentioned earlier, is one area we can do much, must better. But I do not believe that euthanasia, where life can be legally extinguished by another human being, is the solution.</para>
<para>Euthanasia advocates argue that society should legalise what already occurs in the medical profession. But I'm not sure that characterises what happens in medicine particularly well, and also I don't think that's sufficient justification to change the law. If doctors are breaking the law when euthanasia is illegal, what realistic constraints are there were it to be legalised? I have grave concerns about the lack of protection for those seeking a lethal injection or assisted suicide. What protection does a person in pain and severe distress, who may ardently believe that they wish to die at the time that they make the request, have?</para>
<para>How is the administration of a lethal dose by a third party a matter of individual rights or liberalism? I think that, too, is a question that needs to be challenged. As politicians we must accept responsibility for the vulnerable and disadvantaged and offer them protection beyond a superficial freedom of choice.</para>
<para>It is argued that the right to die is a matter of individual rights, that it is an individual choice and a matter of personal dignity. I have a different view about what constitutes personal dignity. What the individual wishing to die is asking is to be killed by another party. What is being requested is for the doctor to determine whether a patient will have a worthwhile life. Should we as a society endorse some people's suicides and not others? We must always balance individual rights and the public interest. While many people may wish to have the right to choose the timing of their death and the circumstances, that in itself is not a strong basis for social policy.</para>
<para>Another argument is that doctors, as part of palliative care practice, are presently killing patients by administering pain relievers in doses that are lethal. This goes back to my earlier point about how well characterised existing medical practice is. The point here is that palliative care experts intend to relieve patient pain, not to kill, and that is critical. We need to invest more in good palliative care. A 2015 Victorian Auditor-General report found that, while access to palliative care in the state has improved:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… some metropolitan community palliative care services are struggling to cope with demand …</para></quote>
<para>Indeed, aged-care facilities are also struggling to do this well.</para>
<para>It would be wrong not to look at overseas experience. Legalisation begins with tight restrictions that get expanded over time. The Netherlands was the first country to legalise euthanasia, in 2001; now the age of eligible patients is 12. In Belgium there are no age restrictions. The category of what constitutes an illness is ever-expanding as well, with the Netherlands now considering euthanasia for—I don't know how you would define this—'completed life'. I agree with Senator Leyonhjelm when he said in his second reading speech that this is an issue about all of us; indeed, that is why I believe you must balance individual rights with the public interest.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:58</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SIEWERT</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise in support of the Restoring Territory Rights (Assisted Suicide Legislation) Bill 2015. In 1995 the Northern Territory Legislative Assembly enacted this legislation. It passed a law which reflected not only the will of Northern Territorians but also the strongly-held views of the majority of all Australians. It was the first time anywhere in the world that a legislature had authorised voluntary assisted dying. This was compassionate, groundbreaking policy. The Howard government decided to use its constitutional power to run over the Northern Territory assembly's right to make laws affecting Territorians. The Greens rejected that at the time, and we reject the idea that the Commonwealth can use its own constitutional power to change the laws that the federal government of the day disagrees with. It is on that basis that we believe this bill has merit.</para>
<para>This bill is about compassion and the right to end-of-life choices. This bill is about support for the rights of the terminally ill to choose the manner and timing of their death. Let us be clear: we are talking about terminally ill individuals who are experiencing unbearable suffering from an incurable illness. We are talking about adult individuals who wish to receive medical assistance to end their life peacefully at a time of their choosing. There are already so many countries around the world which take a compassionate approach—Switzerland, Belgium, Germany, Canada and parts of the USA, just to name a few. In 1995, Territorians voted to take the compassionate approach. It's time they were afforded the self-determination to do that.</para>
<para>Time and time again, we hear of opinion polls which demonstrate that the majority of Australians support voluntary assisted dying. In November last year, Roy Morgan found that 87 per cent of Australians support voluntary assisted dying. This support from voluntary assisted dying cuts across party lines. It cuts across gender and across age.</para>
<para>While the debate has been used by some politicians to divide us, it is quite clear that this is not a divisive issue. Australians support a compassionate approach to end-of-life choices. Having said that, I'm also a strong advocate for palliative care. Any debate around voluntary assisted dying must also acknowledge that, in conjunction with compassion and a compassionate approach to end-of-life choices, we also need a well-resourced palliative care system. We need to ensure that the palliative system is adequately funded, and that it stays that way. But even with the most well-funded palliative care system, Palliative Care Australia has acknowledged that it cannot relieve all pain and suffering, even with optimal care. This is why we need both: a strong palliative care system that delivers services across Australia and regional and rural communities, and access to robust, voluntary assisted dying measures for the terminally ill.</para>
<para>In 1997, Kevin Andrews succeeded in pushing a private member's bill through the parliament. It overturned the first legislation permitting assisted suicide in Australia, enacted in the Northern Territory. Since this time, my Greens colleagues in many states and territories and in this place have been working tirelessly on this issue, as have hundreds of enormously committed volunteers and workers in organisations right across the country. In my home state of Western Australia, the parliament established a joint select committee of the legislative assembly and legislative council to inquire into and report on laws in Western Australia to allow citizens to make informed decisions regarding their own end-of-life choices. I believe that Territorians should have the same right, and I look forward to restoring the rights of the territories. We support this bill.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:02</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BROCKMAN</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>We've just had three contributions on this matter from colleagues with a great depth of experience, both in this place and on this topic, that I can't hope to mirror, and it is very worthwhile. For me, as someone who has been in this place for five short months, it is good to hear the words of much more experienced colleagues on what is a very difficult policy area. Obviously, it is a matter that has been considered in this parliament and in various state and territory parliaments quite a few times over the years, and we've recently seen a very protracted debate on legislation in this area in Victoria.</para>
<para>As a starting point, though, I would point out that the bill we're currently looking at is not actually about euthanasia; it is more about state and territory rights. The bill is called the Restoring Territory Rights (Assisted Suicide Legislation) Bill 2015. The explanatory memorandum states:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The purpose of the Restoring Territory Rights (Assisted Suicide Legislation) Bill 2015 is fourfold.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">First, it reduces the extent of Commonwealth interference with the laws of the Australian Capital Territory and the Northern Territory.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Second, it will encourage competitive federalism—the process whereby each state enacts laws in competition with the others—thereby refining and improving law-making.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Third, it recognises the right of the Australian Capital Territory and the Northern Territory to legislate for assisted suicide in their respective jurisdictions.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Fourth, it ensures that the <inline font-style="italic">Rights of the Terminally Ill Act </inline>(NT) is not automatically revivified, allowing the Parliament of the Northern Territory to revisit the issue in a time and manner of its choosing.</para></quote>
<para>As previous speakers have said—and I think it is important to repeat—this is a very sensitive, complex topic; one that engenders a lot of strong community feelings, and one that's been extensively debated in this place. But the issue of territories' rights, in particular, is one that should not merely be viewed through the prism of states' rights.</para>
<para>We do have a Federation, made up of six states and two territories. There is a reason why we have six states and two territories, not six states or eight states. The Federation came into existence on 1 January 1901—inspired by the US constitution, certainly. It was the coming together of the six British colonies seeking their independence from Great Britain, envisaging the benefits of unrestricted trade throughout the Federation and the benefits of a combined armed force, a single currency and a single rate of export excise. But they also wanted to retain certain powers for themselves, not to be usurped by a central government. Those of us who are federalists—and I acknowledge that Senator Leyonhjelm is a federalist—recognise that, over time, these powers have been significantly eroded by successive decisions of the High Court. The powers of the Commonwealth have been significantly expanded through that process, and the areas in which the Commonwealth has taken an active role have been significantly expanded.</para>
<para>However, I don't think we should, through that process, automatically assume that the rights of territories are those of states. As I've stated, legislation has recently been passed in Victoria in the area of euthanasia. That is completely correct, in that it was the right of the Victorian parliament to pass those laws, and of the citizens of Victoria to now live under those laws. However, the territories have a different status. They are a different legal entity under our Constitution, and were never envisaged to have the same rights or responsibilities as the states. I think there is a broader discussion that we should have, Senator Leyonhjelm, about the future of the territories within the Commonwealth and how that should change over time. But I think that is beyond the topic of this bill, and certainly beyond the more narrow issue of discussing euthanasia.</para>
<para>When you're dealing with euthanasia, I think it's very important to recognise that this is a topic that invokes a lot of passion. It's an area where, I think, people's views have changed over time and are probably different at different stages in their lives. I often think about this issue in parallel with the issue of capital punishment. As a younger man, I didn't have any particular moral objection to capital punishment. But, over time, I came to realise that, regardless of my position on capital punishment, the legal system could not be made robust enough for capital punishment to be used within Western societies in a way that would stand any sort of robust examination. We've seen in the US a number of states move away from capital punishment for that reason—because it has been shown that the legal system failed to provide adequate checks and balances to ensure that this ultimate punishment of the state could be used effectively.</para>
<para>And I think this is the problem many have in the area of euthanasia. Regardless of how you feel about the topic itself, can we be certain that we can craft a legal regime that will actually provide adequate protections to people, particularly those in the most vulnerable of circumstances: people with either a diagnosed or an undiagnosed mental illness or people who are in a lot of pain? We heard from previous speakers about the importance of palliative care and the importance of pain management, and I certainly would echo those thoughts. It's an area where I think that, as a society and as a medical profession and a health system, we probably need to look at doing more.</para>
<para>Pain is certainly one of those areas where there is some quite remarkable work being done by researchers. I was meeting in my office during National Science Week with a young researcher who was looking at some very new, highly targeted ways of delivering pain management drugs within the brain. Obviously, technologies like that are very exciting and can potentially be a significant game changer in this area, as we give people who are in very desperate circumstances new options, new opportunities, new ways of dealing with the very serious and confronting problems they face.</para>
<para>This is why it has to always be an underlying principle of any government, and certainly this government, to continue to invest in quality of life through our health systems and, as I said, particularly in palliative care and pain management. People need access to quality palliative care. They need to be able to gain relief from pain and suffering, and, where possible, they should be able to choose the extent of active medical treatment they receive.</para>
<para>Euthanasia has been a matter for state parliaments, and that is—as I stated earlier in terms of the place of federalism in our structures of government—how it should be dealt with. The territories, as I've stated, lie in a slightly different category. I think that we need to ensure that, when we consider these issues, we do so from a holistic viewpoint, not merely based on the idea that we are in some way restoring territories' rights. In my view of federalism, those rights did not exist in the way they are described in this bill in the first place. They were rights that were provided for in the Constitution for the states. The territories are not states, and therefore the rights do not flow in the same way.</para>
<para>The Commonwealth government is carefully considering the interaction between the Voluntary Assisted Dying Act 2017, which was recently passed in Victoria, and relevant Commonwealth provisions. I think that is something that we need, obviously, to keep an eye on. I think that as a parliament and as a government it's important to look at the operation of laws in other jurisdictions. Regardless of where you stand on the issue itself, we now have laws in place in Victoria. We need to monitor those. We need to watch how that is changing the environment for people who perhaps choose to act under those laws. I think we need to keep a watching brief on this topic.</para>
<para>But when this topic does come up in federal parliament at some point in the future, and I suspect it probably will, I think we do need to take a very holistic view of this issue and look at all the interactions of the various legal systems. In the main, I think this should be a matter that we leave to state governments. I don't think that we need to revisit the debates of the late nineties in this area at this point, and I don't think this bill would be the correct manner in which to do it. I seek leave to continue my remarks.</para>
<para>Leave granted; debate adjourned.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>MOTIONS</title>
        <page.no>84</page.no>
        <type>MOTIONS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Schools: Funding</title>
          <page.no>84</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:15</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator URQUHART</name>
    <name.id>231199</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) acknowledges that the $210 million funding cut to South Australian schools and $68 million in Tasmanian schools, in 2018 and 2019, means that schools will face significant cuts; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) calls on the Australian Government to immediately reinstate the funding previously committed to South Australian and Tasmanian schools.</para></quote>
<para>This is a very important motion. Tasmanian families have the right to know where the Turnbull government stands on education, because from what we've seen the Liberals cannot be trusted on schools. Instead of doing dirty secret deals to cut school funding, Prime Minister Turnbull should tell parents and teachers the truth. Does he care about the best quality education for all Australian children? This motion gives him the opportunity to demonstrate that either he cares about students or he has priorities other than the best possible start for our next generation. Government is about priorities and, if the Liberals vote no on this motion, it is clear that their priorities are not with the parents, the teachers or the children of Australia. If the Liberals vote no on this motion, it demonstrates loud and clear to the people of Tasmania that they don't care. To be frank, I think if they cared they wouldn't be cutting $68 million from Tasmanian schools over the 2018 and 2019 school years—$68 million!</para>
<para>The Turnbull government has cut millions from our schools, and the Tasmanian Liberals have sat by and done nothing. That is $12 million cut from schools in Lyons: $12 million cut from schools such as the Sheffield District High School, the Deloraine High School and the Campbell Town District High School. It is $12 million cut from schools like Beaconsfield Primary School, St Helens District High School and Brighton Primary School, amongst others.</para>
<para>The Turnbull government has cut millions from our schools and again the Tasmanian Liberals have sat by and done nothing. It represents $12.2 million worth of cuts to schools in Franklin. That is $12.2 million taken from teaching and learning in schools such as Rosny College, Rokeby Primary School and Kingston High School. It is $12.2 million in cuts to schools such as Dover District School, Howrah Primary School and Margate Primary School, amongst many others.</para>
<para>The Turnbull government has cut millions from our schools, and again the Tasmanian Liberals have sat by and done nothing. In Denison, the Liberals are cutting $14.4 million from schools like Austins Ferry Primary School, Cosgrove High School and Claremont College. It is $14.4 million that teachers will not have for their students' learning at Glenorchy Primary School, Newtown Boys High School, Ogilvie High School for girls and Lenah Valley Primary School, amongst many others.</para>
<para>The Turnbull government has cut millions from our schools, and the Tasmanian Liberals have sat by and done nothing. It will be $14.7 million from schools in Braddon. That is $14.7 million from schools like Burnie High School, Boat Harbour Primary School and Smithton High School. It is $14.7 million from some of our most remote students at the King Island District High School, Mountain Heights School and Redpa Primary School, amongst others.</para>
<para>The Turnbull government has cut millions from our schools, and the Tasmanian Liberals have sat by and done nothing. And it will be $14.7 million cut from schools in Bass. That is $14.7 million cut from teaching and learning at schools like Youngtown Primary, Launceston College and Port Dalrymple School. It is $14 million of cuts to schools such as Queechy High School, Scottsdale Primary School and the Bridport Primary School, amongst others.</para>
<para>The Turnbull government has cut millions from our schools and the Tasmanian Liberals have sat by and done nothing across the state of Tasmania. Funding for students with disability will go from $18 million last year to $9.7 million this year. That's a cut of $8.3 million. The cut will hurt our most disadvantaged and vulnerable students—a cut of basically 50 per cent in one year. Whatever did Tasmanian students with a disability do to deserve such cruelty? Whatever did the parents and the loved ones of those students do? It is a typical decision of a Liberal Party that does not care about Tasmanian students, that does not care about Tasmanian families. They just care about cuts, cuts and more cuts.</para>
<para>Prime Minister Turnbull and the Liberals have no vision for students, no compassion for the tireless efforts of our teachers, our teacher aids, our school support workers and our attendants, and no respect for parents. Quite simply, you cannot trust the Liberals with schools, just like you can't trust the Liberals with health, you can't trust the Liberals with biosecurity and you can't trust the Liberals with energy.</para>
<para>A vote for Labor on 3 March is a vote for a majority government that will put people first. Take our education policy. We want to make Tasmania the education state. The policy covers four key areas for success: one, restoring teacher numbers; two, building our education base; three, embedding a culture of lifelong learning; and, four, making education fairer. Working with the Shorten Labor government here in Canberra, a White Labor government will ensure that Tasmania has its fair share of education funding after the cuts by Malcolm Turnbull and his big brother, Mr Tony Abbott.</para>
<para>Across Tasmania, Labor will get teachers into classrooms to not only repair the damage done by the Liberals but exceed that. We're going to restore the damage and do more so that all our children get the best start. A Rebecca White Labor government will put 201 full-time-equivalent teachers into our schools. This comprises 89 new teachers, 40 early learning teachers, 50 teachers back into school communities and 22 early childhood intervention service teachers. A Rebecca White Labor government will invest in an additional 30 full-time-equivalent support staff like school psychologists, speech and language pathologists, occupational therapists and school social workers. This will ensure that the services students need for achieving their best are wrapped around them in a school environment. And Labor will hire 30 full-time-equivalent teacher assistants and administration staff to reduce the pressure on our teachers. It's not just about teacher numbers but how teachers are actually supported at work. That's what makes a difference to our children's education.</para>
<para>Teachers' claims for workers compensation related to stress increased by 60 per cent between 2015-16 and 2016-17. This is not only having an unacceptable impact on staff but is costing the budget around $2 million a year. Labor will establish a working group to improve health and safety outcomes in our schools. It's also about investing in school upgrades and new schools where appropriate. A majority Rebecca White Labor government will also commit $40 million to build a new co-ed public high school in Hobart, $20 million for a new kinder to grade 12 school in Penguin and $22 million for a new kinder to grade 12 school in Sorell. In comparison, the Liberals are at their deceitful best. They have tried to make their funding promise sound better than it is by including money that wouldn't be spent until after 2022—after the next state election. What sort of ridiculous trickery is that?</para>
<para>It's the same time frame as their deceitful promises on a health system that, until last week, the health minister refused to concede was in crisis. Before the last election, the Liberals promised to protect frontline staff—and then, after they were elected, cut two teachers from almost every school in Tasmania.</para>
<para>Labor's election commitment is fully funded over the budget cycle. The Liberals are lost at sea with a policy that doesn't do enough over the next four years. I urge the Senate to pass this motion to support Labor's calls for the Australian government to immediately reinstate the funding previously committed to our schools—because we know that the Tasmanian Liberals won't stand up and fight for our students.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:25</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I too stand today to speak on the motion moved by Senator Urquhart in relation to school funding.</para>
<para>Whilst we are talking about schools, can I take this opportunity to put on the record my deep sympathies for the absolute tragedy that happened in Florida while we were sleeping overnight. Seventeen young people lost their lives in a school shooting. I know anybody and everybody in this place who has children will understand the trauma and fear that that strikes to our very hearts when we hear those terrible, terrible stories. Seeing those young children on the television this afternoon, as a mother of a 15-year-old, I can only say it makes me absolutely sick to the stomach that something like this could happen. I'm sure everybody in this chamber will join me in expressing our deepest sympathy and our condolences, and assure everybody who is going through the most extraordinary pain in Florida today, as we speak, that our thoughts are well and truly with them. It is a very, very sad day for the education system in the US. It is a very sad day for a lot of people. It is a very sad day for the world, that this kind of thing continues to happen.</para>
<para>Before us today we have a motion that is asking this place to acknowledge two particular actions. One is in relation to a supposed cut in funding to South Australian schools and to Tasmanian schools, and a call on the government to reinstate this funding. In order for us to be able to support any motion in this place, one would expect that it would have to be based in fact. There seems little point for those on this side of the chamber—or anybody in this chamber for that matter—to come into this place and support something that is factually incorrect. Senator Urquhart and her colleagues know darn well that what they've got before us is not true. They're asking us to acknowledge something that is not based in fact.</para>
<para>I would like to think that the coalition and others in this place would come into this chamber and acknowledge the significant contribution that the Turnbull federal government has made to improving education standards in Australia and to improving education outcomes for our young children, and also, particularly, acknowledge the fact that there has been a significant increase in investment in funding to our schools. If we want to put the facts on the record, the Commonwealth Quality Schools package will deliver recurrent total funding—a record—of $249.8 billion between now and 2027. This year, this is a year-on-year growth for all schools and all sectors. I know those opposite will probably jump in and say, 'But that's a cut on what we promised'. I heard Senator Urquhart say before that all of the promises that they have made are fully funded. I would question whether that is actually accurate, because, according to the budgetary statements and information that I've received, much of the promise that was made in relation to school funding by those opposite wasn't funded. In fact, I think they forgot to fund a couple of the states in their forward program—just minor oversights that we forget to mention when we come into this place and make a contribution.</para>
<para>That other point that's worth making is that the Commonwealth funding will grow faster than broader economic growth, with the total Commonwealth funding growing by approximately 77.1 per cent over the next 10 years. I don't know about you, Mr Acting Deputy President, but I reckon if I put 100 bucks in the bank today and I knew that I was going to get 77 per cent growth over the next 10 years, I would think that was a reasonably good return on my investment. We need to stress that the government spending increases are real and that they are in the budget. This is fundamentally different to the budgeting and the promises that were made by those opposite.</para>
<para>Whilst I absolutely refuse to accept the premise of the motion that's before us, I would say it is not just money that makes for a good education system. Just adding money does not deliver an outcome. We have seen time and again, in myriad different places, that those opposite think that, if you just throw money in and tick a box, it'll all be okay. There is a series of different things we can do in our education and there is a series of different things that Senator Birmingham, as the minister responsible for education, has managed to get legislated so that we can actually provide a much better education system—a much more targeted, child-specific, outcome-driven education system—for our young people here in Australia. For the first time, we're moving towards having greater transparency, greater fairness and greater equity because we have moved to a needs based funding model. I think that that will truly reflect what it is that is going to deliver the best possible outcome for our young people. As you and I both know, Mr Acting Deputy President, there is no greater investment that we can make as a country than the investment in the education of our young people.</para>
<para>Labor's so-called $17.5 billion is only about their own unfunded promises. If those opposite would like to come back in here with a factual motion that talks about the actual behaviour that's happened in the budget, I'm sure those on this side of the chamber would be keen to support the motion put forward by Senator Urquhart, but we're not going to support a motion which is factually incorrect.</para>
<para>I noticed Senator Urquhart went through a number of different schools in Tasmania. Obviously this particular motion has been put before this chamber as an election stunt. You'd think that's what it was, given there's an election currently in progress in Tasmania and the writs are to be issued in South Australia tomorrow night, and this particular motion applies only to education funding in Tasmania and South Australia. Before I move on to my home state of South Australia and put on the record some facts about what's really going on in South Australia, it's important that we put on the record that Commonwealth funding for all schools in Tasmania will grow and will continue to grow year-on-year from $410 million last year up to $602 million in 2027. That is an extra $192 million—I repeat: an extra $192 million—which is a 46.7 per cent increase. Over the next four years there is an average of a 4.9 per cent increase per student for all schools. I don't know which part of that one could possibly suggest was a funding cut. All Tasmanian schools are beneficiaries of the government's faster six-year transition between now and 2023 to the government's schooling resource standard, which adds an extra $22 million over that period and $71 million over the 10-year period to 2027. No Tasmanian independent schools are expected to have their funding reduced under the new funding model as they transition. The Tasmanian Catholic systemic sector receives real funding, with annual per-student growth of five per cent over that same period. So it's a little bit hard for us to take seriously the motion that's before us when the facts actually contradict what has been put forward in this motion.</para>
<para>I also draw to attention that in South Australia exactly the same story exists. South Australian schools are going to be receiving real funding increases, with government schools being the biggest winners. Commonwealth funding to local schools will grow strongly into the future. Unquestionably the first thing I'd suggest is that those opposite may like to avail themselves of the increased funding and better opportunities within our schools, because they might like to learn how to add up. It's very difficult to see how they can possibly suggest that an increase across the board for just about every school, in every sector and for every child can possibly be a funding cut.</para>
<para>But let's now talk about some of the things that are happening in South Australia. I'm really quite surprised that those opposite would want to come into this place and debate a motion about the education system in South Australia when you consider the absolute debacle that is currently unfolding and has been unfolding through 2017 in South Australia, particularly in the relation to the South Australian government's handling of TAFE SA. Over 1,000 students who had undertaken courses in our TAFE colleges were found not to have actually achieved their standards or their certifications, because the courses when audited were found to be inadequate. So that's 1,000 young people who thought they'd graduated from a course, who had paid their money, done their schooling and come out the other end of their course, only to find, because of the inadequacy of the administration of the South Australian TAFE system, that they no longer actually had those. Many of them had to go back to revisit their courses and to redo a lot of their study. This is a tremendously sad indictment of the administration of their education system in South Australia. So, as I say, I find it quite bizarre that those opposite would want to come here and start digging up issues about education in South Australia.</para>
<para>Consider children in custody, while we're on the subject of children. The South Australian government's track record about protecting children in custody is absolutely horrific. To think that these children, some of the most vulnerable children in our society, children who have been through tremendously traumatic circumstances, who are supposedly being put into custody, then find themselves in a situation where they're not being protected; in fact, they are just continuing to be exposed to increased levels of risk—and the South Australian government still has failed to really address the systemic problem in looking after our children.</para>
<para>And then you can bounce to other sectors such as our aged-care sector in South Australia. Once again, the South Australian government has a case to answer in relation to the delivery of appropriate protection of the aged in our society.</para>
<para>Anyway, I digress. What we're talking about here is, I suppose, probably one of the most fundamental issues that happens in this place from day to day, and that is that, if you say something often enough and you say it loud enough and enough people say it, all of a sudden the world thinks it's actually true. We need to put on the record—</para>
<para class="italic">Senator Gallacher interjecting—</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Those opposite and you, Senator Gallacher, from my home state of South Australia, where I'm sure you're very concerned about the young people who aren't being looked after and our old people who aren't being looked after—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>247871</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senators, via the chair!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>But we're really happy about the young children in our schools who are getting extra education opportunities because of the education policies of this government and the funding from this government to our South Australian schools.</para>
<para>But let's be clear about this: you can't come into this place and say lies. You can't come into this place and try and create an impression that something is the case when it's not. I can't tell you a better example than last night. Last night we came in here to debate the water disallowance motion that was put forward by Senator Hanson-Young. Now, if ever I have seen an attempt by somebody to try and create a false impression, a distorted impression, a factually incorrect impression, about what was going on, that was the case last night. You can't come in with motions like we've got here that say that we're having cuts and then try and condemn those opposite, us, for not supporting this motion. You've got to put the facts on the table.</para>
<para>The government are absolutely transparent in everything we do. I am quite happy to come in here, and I'll support any motion that gets put forward by those on the other side as long as it's factually correct. Last night Senator Hanson-Young came in here, and she made some of the most outrageous allegations, particularly outrageous allegations about Minister Littleproud. She was making allegations that were factually incorrect. She came in here and said that his brother-in-law had somehow stolen water. Now, first of all, the person that Senator Hanson-Young was referring to was not Minister Littleproud's brother-in-law. In fact, he was some distant relation of Minister Littleproud's wife. You can't use this place to conflate a story, because we have a very serious responsibility. When people listen to what we're saying, they think we have to tell the truth. They think that we are telling the truth. But when you have a situation where people are prepared to come in here and make outrageous statements, eventually the public start thinking, 'Well, what is the truth?' So then when you come in here and actually tell the truth, nobody believes you. I think there was once a book written about that, Mr Acting Deputy President. Wasn't there a story called <inline font-style="italic">Peter and the Wolf</inline>,about a little boy who kept saying, 'There's a wolf! There's a wolf!'? There wasn't any wolf—until the day there was a wolf. We just need to be very, very careful that we don't bring this place into a greater level of disrepute by coming in here and telling stories about things that aren't true and creating false impressions, creating 'alternative facts' and 'alternative truths', because eventually it will come back and bite us all on the tail.</para>
<para>Back to our education system: I've got to say, as a South Australian, that I am extraordinarily proud of the changes in our education space that have been made by the government of which I am a member. I am extraordinarily proud of the outcomes that are being delivered on the ground in our home state of South Australia—Senator Gallacher, opposite, is also a member of that community. It is a good news story, a great news story.</para>
<para>I think that as Australians we are, by our very nature, the kind of people who are prepared to give everything a go, but we're also confidence players. By constantly coming into this place, or going out in the media, making false representations, and making things sound bad when they're not bad but are actually quite good, all we serve to do is create a bad feeling in our communities. We create negative vibes in our schools and we make people feel that they're inferior when they're not. I think maybe the time has come that we call this out for exactly what it is: nothing more than blatant political behaviour—in this instance, obviously, so they can go back and spread all this information around the electorates in Tasmania and South Australia. They can make accusations here because they know that the parliamentary privilege that applies in this place means they don't have to tell the truth. They don't have to put on the record the fact that record school funding has been applied to all schools, across all states, across all regions, across all school sectors in Australia under this government.</para>
<para>Senator Birmingham, as the Minister for Education and Training, has delivered not only more money but also a better system so that we have better targeting of our money to our students. It's needs-based. We identify the individual student and we deliver on it. The other really good thing about the reforms that Senator Birmingham brought through this place, and the increased benefits that are being delivered in our education system, is that he has also recognised the huge contribution that comes out of rural and regional centres. He's recognised the fact that those children—who don't live in capital cities—equally need quality education outcomes.</para>
<para>If we want to get into the real election mode of all this and talk about South Australia, Mr Weatherill, the Premier of South Australia, is on the record as saying he doesn't need to worry about doing anything like spending additional money on or providing any additional impetus for rural or regional South Australia because there are no votes out there for him. He's actually on the public record as saying that. We all knew he thought that, and his behaviour has always indicated that, but it takes a special kind of guy to stand in front of the cameras and say, 'I'm not doing anything for rural and regional South Australia because there are no votes out there for me.' I've got to say, it's a very sad indictment of the government in South Australia, a tremendously sad indictment of the government of South Australia, that he would actually say that.</para>
<para>Hopefully, on the night of 17 March we will have a new government in South Australia, and the new Premier of South Australia will be somebody who does care about rural and regional South Australia. A Steven Marshall-led Liberal government will continue to put emphasis on and prioritise rural and regional South Australia. Steven's campaign, Regions Matter, has been really penetrating the regions. They've come up with a Royalties for Regions program so we can recognise that much of the economic activity, the powerhouse of our economy, actually comes from our farmers, who grow our food—farmers who are working along the Murray-Darling Basin, I might add. They are the people who grow our wheat, the people who run the sheep to provide the meat that we eat, and the wool, and the people who grow our vegetables and our fruit. They are the people that Steven Marshall thinks are just as important as the people who live in the Adelaide CBD.</para>
<para>I'm really quite surprised that those opposite would bring this motion into this place and give me the opportunity to tell you about all the really good things that are going on in South Australia. I commend our fantastic education system. I commend Senator Birmingham—a South Australian, I might say—who has delivered a fantastic quality education program for all children in all states of Australia, not just Tasmania and South Australia. We have delivered a great education system. It's fully funded and it has increased funding. The motion before us stands to be condemned. It not just frivolous; it is factually incorrect and misleading. You should be ashamed of it.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:45</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLACHER</name>
    <name.id>204953</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>That final contribution is probably where I'd like to start. I rise to support Senator Urquhart's motion before the Senate.</para>
<para class="italic">Senator Ruston interjecting—</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLACHER</name>
    <name.id>204953</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Ruston, your factional boss, the Honourable Christopher Pyne, said on 21 August 2013 that 'every single school in Australia will receive, dollar for dollar, the same federal funding over the next four years whether there is a Liberal government or a Labor government after 7 September'. It is straightforward: to get elected, particularly in South Australia, he promised exactly the same funding into the future which you're now running away from. Let's look at other contributions from South Australia. On 21 September 2016 former senator Nick Xenophon said: 'Together with my colleagues Senator Stirling Griff, Senator Skye Kakoschke-Moore and Rebekha Sharkie MP, we stand by the full implementation and full funding of Gonski. In particular, we support the current system of indexation and we'll oppose any move to change it.' So, two of the contributors in this debate in South Australia appear to have walked away from their electoral promises and commitments.</para>
<para>But what does all that really mean? Prior to 2011, I wouldn't have been able to contribute in this debate. But as a senator since then I have visited a number of schools, particularly in the electorate of Grey—Roxby Downs, Port Pirie, Coober Pedy, Andamooka, the Pitjantjatjara Lands, Ellerston, Cummins, Port Lincoln, Ceduna and Port Augusta West. Port Augusta West is one of the most disadvantaged schools in the state. Extremely good work is done by those teachers and principals. They are really delivering, and they are combatting some of the extreme examples of disadvantage in our society. Those are the places that are going to get cut. Those are the places that are not going to get the additional funding promised. And it's scandalous. It really is. The total electorate of Giles would suffer diminished funding of $5 million.</para>
<para>What did the kids at the Amata Anangu School in the APY Lands do to deserve lesser facilities, lesser training and lesser services to get them into a functioning economy or to literacy of a high standard? What about the kids in the Andamooka Primary School, the Coober Pedy Area Primary School, the Cowell Area School, the John Ayers School and the Ernabella Anangu School? These are real schools which are combatting rural disadvantage. In the APY Lands we have really significant challenges which we need to address. I think those on the other side understand that, but they made this razor gang decision to cut back on the education spend and put in place a smaller increase. They're putting in place a small increase. They are not going to take on the real challenges that we face. They're not going to fund the real challenges we face in some of these areas. I could go shallow political partisan and say Prince Alfred College, St Peters and Rostrevor, where all their kids go to school, are okay because they charge $25,000 or $30,000 in school fees. But there is real work to do in the public education system. There is real work to do to get kids, particularly those from Indigenous and disadvantaged rural areas, to a higher degree of literacy so that they can get into the economy and contribute. That's what closing the gap is all about.</para>
<para>In the area of Giles, five and a bit million dollars will be ripped off schools that, in a lot of cases, are dealing with people of real disadvantage. In the electorate of Newland it is $4.2 million. What did the parents and students in that area do to get diminished capacity to get educated and fulfil jobs in the new economies that are coming? In the electorate of Torrens it is $2.1 million. There is more again if you go over the page and look at the electorate of Lee, which is $3 million. Grange Primary School, Hendon Primary School, Seaton High School, Seaton Park Primary School, West Lakes Shore School and Westport Primary School—why did these people have to suffer diminished funding and, therefore, diminished opportunity to participate in an education system delivering for the 21st century?</para>
<para>Let's walk over the road and have a look at the other great institution in education in Australia: the Catholic education system. It's probably not well known, but the first building they built in Australia was a school. They knew what got people into the economy: education. They are absolutely incensed at what this government is doing. They have threatened to campaign against the Treasurer himself if he doesn't restore the parity funding that they were promised. These people are not particularly political in their contributions, but they are very vehement about delivering in their education system. I have visited a number of higher education and primary schools run by the Catholic education people and I've got to say that they are a startlingly good example of what can be achieved. They are not happy with this model. Catholics are warning MPs on school funding. They've said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The National Catholic Education Commission has warned Coalition MPs they will be targeted if the government doesn't use the 2018 budget to reverse a '$1.1 billion …</para></quote>
<para>I don't think that's an idle threat. I don't think that they come to the argument without really good credentials. You only have to spend a modest amount of time at a Catholic school anywhere in your state or territory to know that these people are committed, that those schools are well run, that those schools are thrifty and that they do educate some of the most disadvantaged people in the community to a very high standard.</para>
<para>So it can't be just: 'The Labor Party are making it up. The Labor Party have been there too long.' All of the concerns coming out are from the true practitioners and stakeholders in the education sector. Senator Birmingham and Senator Ruston have been given the argument: 'We're increasing funding. We're not funding it the same as the full Gonski. Go out there and sell it.' They're doing what their superiors in cabinet tell them to do, but it's not washing.</para>
<para>One of the real great honours that I have is to travel around the electorate of Grey. Having done that for nearly seven years now, I have sorted out a couple of things here and there. People talk quite genuinely and openly about the challenges they face. The challenges they face, particularly with kids from disadvantaged regional parts of South Australia, are immense. There are areas of excellence where people are achieving really good outcomes—and Port Augusta West Primary School is one of those areas. Despite the challenges they face, they are doing really well. Another area is Ceduna. There has been great debate here in this chamber about whether the cashless welfare card is a success or not. We know that school attendance is up in those areas. We also know that, if the kids can get to school and get a reasonable start in their educational life, there's a much greater chance that they will participate genuinely in the workforce.</para>
<para>The Liberals in South Australia have said—it's part of their corflute material and all the rest of it—'We will match Labor dollar for dollar.' It's just that they haven't fulfilled that commitment. The Hon. Christopher Pyne, a consummate politician, has been able to articulate many positions over his very long career. I suppose he'll probably go on for another 10 years shifting shape, shifting positions and managing to weather the respective storms. But I think it is really low of the coalition to say that the ALP in South Australia, the Catholic education system nationally, the Australian Education Union and others are all wrong—that we're actually doing better than what was promised—because it's clearly not the case. The facts are not shared.</para>
<para>Senator Ruston mentioned the TAFE system. I suppose, if you're going to throw an egg, you might as well get one that's rotten and see what you can do! But what was the contribution that Senator Birmingham gave to former Senator Day? It was a $2 million grant without a lot of strings attached—very few strings attached—to train probably about 20 people. When it suited them to do accommodations in here, there seemed to be largesse that was exercised in that particular area. It's a matter of public record that the $2 million grant was given with minimum strings attached and minimum scrutiny, and we're still waiting to see what the outcome of that investment was.</para>
<para>We know that Peter Vaughan, the former CEO of Business SA, chaired the TAFE SA organisation. What I know from talking to people who are actually in that sort of industry is that the failings were more in governance and Australian standard qualitative assessments rather than failure of delivery of professional courses. It's just that there is a whole series of ticks, checks and balances in the qualitative assessment of those courses which may or may not have been followed—we'll soon find out, I suppose. So they are throwing a few red herrings being thrown here and there.</para>
<para>I totally refute the allegation that Premier Weatherill doesn't care about regional South Australia. I have spent a reasonable amount of time there; when we're not in Canberra, I make a point of visiting regional South Australia. He has ministers out there working in this sector, and they are visible. They do make decisions and, from the feedback I get, whilst no-one gets everything they want, things are on the improve. There have been problems in all sectors of the country, I think, in the running of these very ambitious education programs. But to say that he doesn't care about it and there are no votes in it is totally wrong. We hold the electorate of Giles. It is a Labor seat. We have upper house members of the South Australian parliament who get a vote from regional areas.</para>
<para>The South Australia Liberal Party's problem is that it can't win enough seats to find its way into government. You've got a leader over there, Mr Steven Marshall, who at the last election, in front of the TV cameras, exhorted everybody to vote Labor. 'I think a vote for Labor would be in order here'—those were his words, or thereabouts. You've got a hopeless leader. You've got a duplicitous situation about funding. You've got the Hon. Christopher Pyne saying: 'We'll match Labor dollar for dollar. It makes no difference whether it's a Liberal government or a Labor government—this is going forward.' That's what on his corflute; that's what his DL has said. But, when the Liberals got into government, he had to quickly back down. They had to do their razor gang cuts, pull back the estimates and send their people out to sell another argument. It's truly disgraceful.</para>
<para>But, as Senator Ruston said, on 17 March there'll be a choice. People will make that choice. The Labor Party is confident that its position in respect of education is superior. It's superior for this reason: we're on the side of the angels. We're on the side of the people who need a leg-up in the economy. We're not on the side of Prince Alfred College, St Peters and all of those privileged areas where all of the landed gentry and the Liberals go to school. We're on the side of people who go to the Amata Anangu School and the Ernabella Anangu School. We're on the side of those who need to get greater resources into these schools so they can get the education they truly deserve as Australians and go in, compete and get jobs in the economy. That's why we'll be successful; that's why our funding is necessary. Those on the other side would do very well to look at what they promised and assess it against what they delivered. Don't come into the chamber, implying this side of the chamber is playing untruthfully or without— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BILLS</title>
        <page.no>91</page.no>
        <type>BILLS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Proceeds of Crime Amendment (Proceeds and Other Matters) Bill 2017</title>
          <page.no>91</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" style="" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" background="">
            <a href="r6001" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Proceeds of Crime Amendment (Proceeds and Other Matters) Bill 2017</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>First Reading</title>
            <page.no>91</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:00</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CANAVAN</name>
    <name.id>245212</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill may proceed without formalities and be now read a first time.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a first time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>91</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:00</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CANAVAN</name>
    <name.id>245212</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill be now read a second time.</para></quote>
<para>I seek leave to have the second reading speech incorporated in <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline>.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">The speech read as follows—</inline></para>
<quote><para class="block">The Proceeds of Crime Amendment (Proceeds and Other Matters) Bill 2017 will make amendments to the Proceeds of Crime Act 2002to further enhance the proceeds of crime regime.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The amendments in the bill will allow proceeds authorities, such as the Australian Federal Police, to restrain and forfeit property where illicit funds are used to make payments on that property. The bill does this by amending key terms in the act, including 'lawfully acquired', 'proceeds', 'instruments', 'improvements' and 'derived from an offence'.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">These amendments are necessary as developments in case law have indicated that a person's interest in property is fixed at the moment of initial acquisition, and that any subsequent payments on the property are irrelevant to determining if the property is lawfully acquired or derived from crime.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This loophole could allow organised crime groups to use a web of financial arrangements and asset protection structures to avoid forfeiture of property. For example: criminals may be able to avoid the current proceeds regime by funneling money into ongoing property maintenance and restoration costs, mortgage repayments and improvements.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The existence of this loophole is contrary to the central purpose of the act, which is to undermine the profitability of criminal enterprises.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The amendments in the bill support this central purpose by allowing proceeds authorities to restrain and forfeit property where illicitly obtained money is used to service repayments on loans taken out on the property or fund improvements to the property.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The amendments are designed to function alongside existing provisions in the act which protect individuals who unknowingly acquire proceeds of crime or do so lawfully. These individuals can continue to draw on robust protections which allow them to: exclude their property from forfeiture or restraint, transfer forfeited property back to themselves or obtain compensation for the proportion of the value of the property they obtained lawfully.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This bill demonstrates the government remains committed to making our communities safer by taking effective steps to combat the parasitic effect of serious and organised crime, which is estimated to cost Australia $36 billion every year.</para></quote>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>In accordance with standing order 111, further consideration of this bill is now adjourned to 19 March 2018.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Broadcasting Legislation Amendment (Digital Radio) Bill 2017</title>
          <page.no>92</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" style="" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" background="">
            <a href="s1103" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Broadcasting Legislation Amendment (Digital Radio) Bill 2017</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Returned from the House of Representatives</title>
            <page.no>92</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo></subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Therapeutic Goods Amendment (2017 Measures No. 1) Bill 2017</title>
          <page.no>92</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" style="" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" background="">
            <a href="r5977" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Therapeutic Goods Amendment (2017 Measures No. 1) Bill 2017</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Returned from the House of Representatives</title>
            <page.no>92</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo></subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>92</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Australian Human Rights Commission</title>
          <page.no>92</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Consideration</title>
            <page.no>92</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:03</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BARTLETT</name>
    <name.id>DT6</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate take note of the document.</para></quote>
<para>This document is the report from the Human Rights Commission from May last year to the former Attorney-General, then Senator George Brandis about nine Vietnamese men in detention. They were interviewed, making protection visa or refugee claims, back in 2013 by then Department of Immigration and Border Protection officials in the presence of Vietnamese officials. Indeed, some interviews with Vietnamese detainees were conducted by Vietnamese officials.</para>
<para>Hopefully, it doesn't need elaborating to this chamber or to the wider public that there are still very significant human rights problems in Vietnam. I won't detail them here, but there are plenty of them on the public record from relevant agencies, such as Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International. It's a very basic standard that when somebody is fleeing persecution and seeking protection from Australia or from another nation because of what they allege to be serious persecution in the country they fled from that officials from that government they fled from not be part of their identity process or their interviews or claims to be heard. It would seem to be pretty self-evident but is clearly not self-evident to the immigration department.</para>
<para>It is worth noting that this report by Gillian Triggs, no longer in the position of President of the Australian Human Rights Commission, made a number of recommendations, some of them consistent with previous recommendations by the Commonwealth Ombudsman, which also investigated the matter. It's pleasing to see that the department—and the minister, I presume—agreed with at least some of those recommendations, including for compensation to be paid to two of those people, although not for the rest. Nonetheless, it provides yet another example—certainly not a standalone or rare case—of poor process and culture in this department.</para>
<para>I speak of this particularly because in my home town of Brisbane I had the privilege of being able to give a short speech at the Lunar New Year Tet festival of the local Vietnamese community in Inala in the south west. The local member, Milton Dick, gave quite a fine speech—short, as they always are at these events. A short speech is a good speech; I have only two minutes left on this one, which is all I need to make the key point. As the local member said, the Vietnamese community in settling in Australia have been amongst the most successful demonstrations of a community fleeing persecution, war and terror, building new lives and contributing massively to the culture, economy, diversity, stability and deeper strength of our modern multicultural nation. But the minds and hearts of the people and their descendants continues, as it does for all of us for many subsequent generations, to be partly back concerned about what happens in the country where they came from. They continue to be concerned about the serious human rights breaches and problems in the totalitarian regime of Vietnam.</para>
<para>I mention that because it is common at such events for politicians and representatives of all stripes to make nice comments about what a great job the Vietnamese community have done and continue to do. It's a good thing for all of us to be able to acknowledge, but it is also a key example of the benefit that comes from welcoming, accepting and supporting people who are fleeing persecution, rather than forcing them back, pushing them away or, in this case, trying to screen out their claim of refugee status—fleeing serious persecution—from even being considered at all. If we had, back in the mid-1970s, taken the approach of screening out and not even listening to people who claimed to be fleeing serious persecution, we would not have a Vietnamese community here at all and would not be able to make these nice speeches and to acknowledge the contributions they have made. That same principle applies here today: let's go back to welcoming people or at least listening to their claims of persecution <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Director of National Parks</title>
          <page.no>93</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Consideration</title>
            <page.no>93</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:09</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BARTLETT</name>
    <name.id>DT6</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>This document is the annual report of the Director of National Parks. I draw the Senate's attention to the report because it does contain a lot of important data on the current expenditure and operations of national parks at a Commonwealth level. Because of the title 'national park', people assume that the Commonwealth plays a key role in most of the national parks around the country, when, in most cases, national parks are creations of, and governed by, state governments. If you look at this report, you will see that the vast majority of the parks coming under the governance of the federal Director of National Parks are marine national parks. It highlights the major failure of this government in particular to ensure ongoing proper protection of the marine reserves around Australia. Many people don't realise that Australia, in terms of its overall territory, is more water than land. It is not the fault of the Director of National Parks that there is inadequate protection of those marine areas; it is the fault of this government in deliberately trying to water down the protection of those marine parks.</para>
<para>I recall the decision—a very positive one by the previous coalition government—to significantly expand protected areas within the Great Barrier Reef Marine Park. That decision was made well over 10 years ago now and it was not without some controversy, but it has been shown to have delivered great benefits. The so-called green areas or no-take areas in the Great Barrier Reef Marine Park have delivered not just great environmental benefits but also great benefits for so many communities along the coast of Queensland. I'm just using this as one example. As was argued at the time, not just by environment groups but by the Queensland Tourism Industry Council, this was part of a strong push to expand the protected areas in the marine park. It has been shown that this increases the capacity and resilience of fish stocks, in particular, and of other marine life that might otherwise be vulnerable, whether that is to commercial fishing or pollution from land based run-off or whether that is from warming waters or the impact of natural disasters, which are becoming more severe. You need more resilience, which means you need to have more areas that are protected from all of these significant impacts.</para>
<para>I recall a visit to Rockhampton not so long ago and talking to someone who has nothing to do with an environment group—in fact, they work for an energy company. They were talking about the massive improvement in recreational fishing along the coast near Rockhampton and how people were starting to go there because of its reputation as a great fishing location. It had become so because of the greater health of that marine environment, which was because of the increased green zone. So it wasn't locked it up for no-one to touch. It actually made it more accessible for more people and a healthier marine environment for the community to enjoy. The marine parks are much more than just coral reefs. They are made up of lots of other marine environments as well, which all merit protection and which deliver benefits—employment benefits and recreational benefits—for all Australians.</para>
<para>So, the real concern for the Greens and for so many other Australians is that previous efforts, including under the previous Labor government, to strengthen the resilience and effectiveness of our marine protected areas by making them more genuinely protected are being wound back under this government. It is a fight that the Greens and many other community groups—not just environment groups—continue to push back against, and we will continue to do so.</para>
<para>I would also like to briefly note the important role of the land based national parks under the joint management arrangements with Aboriginal traditional owners in the Kakadu National Park and the Uluru-Kata Tjuta National Park. There is still room for improvement to enable the Aboriginal people from these areas to properly contribute to and be part of decisions about their lands and what happens to them. It was pleasing to see recently that a decision was made to finally stop people from walking up Uluru—that very, very sacred site for the traditional owners there. That was only able to be done because of the wisdom of past generations to allow the traditional owners to actually have a say over the rock—their sacred site. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>94</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Consideration</title>
          <page.no>94</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>94</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Finance and Public Administration References Committee</title>
          <page.no>94</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Report</title>
            <page.no>94</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:15</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SIEWERT</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I would like to take note of item 8, the Finance and Public Administration References Committee report <inline font-style="italic">Appropriateness and effectiveness of the objectives, design, implementation and evaluation of the Community Development Program</inline><inline font-style="italic"> (CDP)</inline>. The report was tabled out of session at the end of last year. I think this report is a very significant one, and I think it is particularly apt to be talking about it this week, where we had the <inline font-style="italic">Closing the Gap</inline> report tabled by the Prime Minister on Monday, and on Tuesday we had the 10th anniversary of the apology to the stolen generations. Much was made by the government of some of the progress on some of the targets, but, of course, employment is not one where we are meeting the target.</para>
<para>On CDP, this week the Minister for Indigenous Affairs has been making a lot of all of the programs and has also been trying to say that CDP is a really good program. Well, he must be talking to a different program than the one that we reviewed through this inquiry. The inquiry makes 22 recommendations that go to the issues that we found during the inquiry. We went to a number of communities, where we heard that people did not like the program and that it was not delivering. They found it involved menial tasks. When we were in Kalgoorlie we heard in person from the police superintendent of the Kalgoorlie region, and we heard via teleconference from the superintendent for the Mid West region, who is based in Geraldton. They gave us some really valuable evidence that pointed to their concerns around the impact that CDP had in fact had on Aboriginal communities in the Goldfields area and in the Mid West region of Western Australia. They said that people were complaining that a lot of Aboriginal people were coming into Kalgoorlie and they were homeless. Their evidence was that they think that's related to CDP, because so many people were being breached, for either No Show, No Pay or for eight weeks for noncompliance. They had no sources of income so they were coming into Kalgoorlie to try to find some work or some support. I urge people to read the transcript and look at what the police said.</para>
<para>As I mentioned, the inquiry made a number of recommendations. Recommendation 1 states:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The committee recommends that the Australian Government immediately replace the current CDP compliance and penalty regime with obligations that are no more onerous than those of other income support recipients. CDP participants must have the same legal rights and other responsibilities as other income support participants, taking into account special circumstances such as remote locations and cultural obligations.</para></quote>
<para>This goes to the heart of one of the major problems with CDP—that is, the huge number of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people who are being breached, either for No Show, No Pay or for so-called serious noncompliance. That may be, for example, that somebody has had some cultural business and has had to go to take care of that, and has not been able to get back into town on the day they said they would, because there is no transport. They instantly get a No Show, No Pay, for example. I'll come shortly to that bigger issue of cultural responsibilities not being accommodated for in CDP. What happens is that people are then docked $50. When you are on Newstart, that's a significant amount of money—if it's a No Show, No Pay. That has an instant impact on how you feed yourself and your basic cost of living, and if you're supporting a family that's particularly important. So the rest of the community also then is supporting you. And I had that, again, direct from members of the community.</para>
<para>We were speaking to somebody who is doing research on this just the other day, in fact, and they said that they've calculated that the penalties have taken about $17 million out of communities. That's a significant amount of money that has come out of communities. What those penalties are doing is having a really negative effect on individuals and communities.</para>
<para>But the other point of that recommendation is there are different rules for CDP. Predominantly, it's Aboriginal people who are on CDP. In my belief, it's a discriminatory program because it is treating Aboriginal people differently, and they have much more onerous requirements than if you're on the Work for the Dole scheme that is operating outside remote and regional areas.</para>
<para>The second recommendation was that CDP requirements should be adjusted to ensure that participants are able to meet them for the majority of the time and that they be more closely aligned with the requirements for other income support participants, like those on Work for the Dole or work-like activity. Participants should have the general obligations and benefits of any other worker. As I said, they are treated differently, and the program is discriminatory—again, despite what the minister and the government claim.</para>
<para>Very importantly, we recommended in the committee that the eight-week serious noncompliance penalty should not be applied during the transition period except under exceptional circumstances. We talk about the 'transition period' because the minister's said repeatedly that they're going to be changing CDP—that CDP is going to change, and it's going to change to more of a community wages program, to be more like what CDEP used to be. He made that announcement in Garma—it was very well received, I will say—yet it still hasn't happened. We're now in February, so it's been seven months. It still hasn't happened. When I was asking him about that in estimates towards the end of last year, we had a number of questions and answers around how it's going to work in, how it's operating, the consultation period and the consultation process, which still seems to be going very slowly. When I talked to some Aboriginal people in community recently, they hadn't been involved in any consultation. That's not to say that it hadn't happened elsewhere, but they hadn't been involved in any consultation.</para>
<para>One of the issues here is this. If we are going to community wages, the committee made recommendations about how, whatever the new program looks like, it should make sure that Aboriginal people are working for the minimum wage, because at the moment they certainly aren't working for the minimum wage, and that that should be more of a community-wage-type program, which CDEP used to be. But, of course, if you are supposedly paying people a wage, you can't income-quarantine that wage, so how's it going to work in the communities that have the cashless welfare card, if people are on CDP? The minister admitted that that is something that they are looking at. They're trying to do that, so they're trying to work a way around it. I still haven't heard a satisfactory answer about how you move to genuine community wages if you are going to income-manage it. That is not genuine community wages. So that is a fundamental problem, I think, with where they're going with the transition, and the minister admitted that they are looking at that issue.</para>
<para>Now, that takes me to a very quick point, because I'm about to run out of time. APO NT, the Aboriginal Peak Organisations Northern Territory, made to the inquiry a very, very substantive submission that outlined a new way that you could run a community-development-type program that actually met Aboriginal community needs and delivered a minimum-wage-style approach, that had proper training and that had a scaled approach, yet we still haven't seen a response from government to APO NT's position. There are a number of Aboriginal organisations that have given deep thought to this. It has strong support from the broader Aboriginal community, yet we still haven't seen the government's response.</para>
<para>Here is a group of organisations that want to work 'with'. Do you remember the Prime Minister said, 'We don't do; we do with'? Well, here's a perfect opportunity to work with the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander community. They have come up with a plan—a really well thought out, reasoned plan. I urge the government to go back, talk to APO NT, talk to those organisations and start delivering a plan that the Aboriginal community has come up with. I tell you what: you'll get a much better outcome. You won't get Aboriginal communities suffering as they are under CDEP and you'll get outcomes.</para>
<para>I seek leave to continue my remarks later.</para>
<para>Leave granted; debate adjourned.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>National Disability Insurance Scheme</title>
          <page.no>96</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Report</title>
            <page.no>96</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:27</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAROL BROWN</name>
    <name.id>F49</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—In respect of the report of the Joint Standing Committee on the National Disability Insurance Scheme, <inline font-style="italic">Transitional arrangements for the </inline><inline font-style="italic">NDIS</inline>, which was tabled earlier today, I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate take note of the report.</para></quote>
<para>I welcome the tabling of the committee's report on the transitional arrangements and I wish particularly to thank the committee members and the many organisations and individuals that took the time to share their experiences with the committee both by way of making a submission and by appearing at the public hearings.</para>
<para>The introduction of the NDIS has been one of the most significant reforms in the history of our nation. The scheme is of vital importance to our nation's quest to become a fully inclusive society. As with any major reform, robust transitional arrangements are essential to ensuring access and trust. The committee has made 26 recommendations that we believe will enhance the transition to the full rollout of the scheme, a number of which focus on the dissemination of more information to the general public and participants by the agency. The committee has also identified some real concerns with emerging gaps in service delivery, thin service delivery markets, the pricing that underpins the delivery of services and the planning and preplanning processes.</para>
<para>An open and transparent approach to reporting and sharing of information must be a priority for the agency if they are to continue to receive the trust and confidence of participants and the general community. In order to guide that process, the committee has recommended that the NDIA publish additional data and analysis in their quarterly reports, namely: the number of planned reviews; the waiting times faced by participants; outcomes of plan reviews, specifically whether the overall value of a package has been increased or decreased; and satisfaction ratings by participants following plan reviews. The committee is also urging the NDIA to ensure that all eligible people with disability across all jurisdictions have access to preplanning supports.</para>
<para>The interaction between the NDIA and other service delivery agencies is of particular concern. State and territory health departments and other mainstream health agencies are still reporting confusion around the areas of payment and responsibility for service delivery. What concerns me most about this ongoing confusion is that the person with disability is usually stuck in the middle, trying to access essential health services while agencies from jurisdictions squabble and pass the buck. Much of this confusion arises from the lack of transparency and clarity between the COAG agreements and interpretation and implementation by the NDIA. Individuals and organisations reported instances of hospitalised people with disability experiencing the withdrawal of services by the hospitals concerned, on the basis that those services would be covered by the NDIS.</para>
<para>The committee has therefore recommended that the COAG Health Council and the COAG Disability Reform Council urgently undertake work to address these issues. The committee was also disturbed to learn of cases of delay in hospital discharge, in some cases due to delays in NDIS planning processes and approvals. This matter also needs to be addressed urgently.</para>
<para>There is a similar lack of clarity around responsibilities in the area of education. The committee is also concerned that the current NDIS funding arrangements do not adequately address the transport and accommodation needs of people with disability. We were alarmed to learn of the increase in the number of young people with disability currently being accommodated in nursing homes. This reflects not just inefficient housing stock but also a dire shortage of suitable short-term accommodation options and crisis accommodation.</para>
<para>When considering the planning process, the committee was struck by evidence of the role of strong support and advocacy in securing plans that best suit the needs of participants. The Information Linkages and Capacity Building program provides essential information and linkages to necessary services for all people with disability, both NDIS participants and people with disability who are not eligible for the scheme. The information provided through this program also assists some when considering the development of their plans.</para>
<para>In order to assist with the further rollout of the scheme, the committee has recommended that funding for the ILC be increased to $131 million per year for each remaining year of the transition. The committee has also recommended that the NDIA publicly release its provider-of-last-resort policy as a matter of urgency in order to strengthen confidence and transparency.</para>
<para>Clearly, there is much more work that needs to be done by COAG, the Department of Health, the Department of Social Services and the NDIA as we progress towards the full rollout of the scheme. I would urge the NDIA, its board, the minister and the COAG committees to take note of our report as I believe that this report, along with the recently tabled report by the Productivity Commission, provides significant recommendations that would, if implemented, address the many concerns that have been raised and ensure a transparent and improved rollout of the scheme. I seek leave to continue my remarks.</para>
<para>Leave granted; debate adjourned.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>97</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Consideration</title>
          <page.no>97</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>AUDITOR-GENERAL'S REPORTS</title>
        <page.no>99</page.no>
        <type>AUDITOR-GENERAL'S REPORTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Consideration</title>
          <page.no>99</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>ADJOURNMENT</title>
        <page.no>99</page.no>
        <type>ADJOURNMENT</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Science Meets Parliament, Molan, Senator Jim, Burch, Ms Candice, MLA</title>
          <page.no>99</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:36</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SESELJA</name>
    <name.id>HZE</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>As many of you know, over the last two days we've seen hundreds of scientists descend upon this building to talk with parliamentarians and each other about their projects, ideas and collaborations as part of the 19th annual Science meets Parliament event. The two days have been filled with activities and meetings, which demonstrate to us in this building the importance of science, research and development to jobs in a growing economy.</para>
<para>I had the pleasure of attending a number of the events, including the Superstars of STEM roundtable breakfast at Questacon earlier this week. I met 11 women who have been part of a program to promote and support women in STEM. I learnt a lot from Dr Rebecca Johnson, the director of the Australian Museum Research Institute, whose work in wildlife forensics uses genome science to improve conservation efforts of Australia's endangered species. I'd also like to take this opportunity to congratulate all of the Superstars of STEM: Dr Sanam Mustafa, Dr Jodie Ward, Dr Pallave Dasari, Dr Rebecca Johnson, Dr Sue Keay, Dr Caroline Ford, Dr Tien Huynh, Dr Fiona Kerslake, Dr Tamara Keeley, Dr Jillian Kenny and Dr Lisa Mielke.</para>
<para>Like many other parliamentarians, I also had the opportunity to welcome some of the Science meets Parliament delegates into my office for a meeting, where I was able to learn about their work and give them the opportunity to ask me how the government can help. I met Dr Kate Grarock, a local Canberra Sanctuary ecologist who works at Mulligans Flat in Canberra's north. She has been instrumental in restoring some of the critically endangered grassy woodlands in the region, including by reintroducing local extinct species. It was great to learn more about her work after I had the opportunity to visit Mulligans Flat with the then Minister for the Environment, Greg Hunt, a couple of years ago to witness the reintroduction of one such species—the eastern bettong.</para>
<para>I also learnt a lot from Dr Keith Barnard, a research group leader with CSIRO, who is involved with the minerals resources processing program. Keith has been doing great work in changing the way CSIRO engages with industry, particularly the mining industry, so that there is more of a partnership between science and industry when it comes to getting the most from our abundant mineral resources.</para>
<para>If any of you watched SBS's <inline font-style="italic">Catalyst</inline> program during the week, you'll have already learnt of Associate Professor Alan Duffy's work in astrophysics. I was grateful to hear more of his work as the lead scientist at the Royal Institution of Australia. He is at the cutting end of understanding how galaxies, like the Milky Way, form and is pioneering research into dark matter, with the soon to be launched dark matter detector called SABRE.</para>
<para>Finally, Claire Edmunds is a PhD candidate at the Australian Institute of Physics. She is working on one of the big scientific issues of the day—quantum computing. Claire is based at the Sydney Nano Institute, which I visited earlier this year. She uses charged atoms to demonstrate and develop quantum control techniques.</para>
<para>There is no substitute for hearing directly from the people at the coalface of scientific endeavour, and I was grateful for the opportunity to meet with Kate, Keith, Alan and Claire and hear about the great work they are doing to increase Australia's knowledge, expertise and innovative culture. There were, of course, hundreds more scientists who descended on parliament this week, and they have equally compelling stories to tell. Science meets Parliament was once again a great success, and I hope all parliamentarians take every chance they get to engage with their local scientific community.</para>
<para>This week we also witnessed an outstanding maiden speech from Senator Jim Molan. It was great to hear some of his insights from his 40 years of distinguished service in the military and some of the work he has done since leaving the military, including on Operation Sovereign Borders. I would again make the point that we saw disgraceful attacks on him from the Greens and, indeed, some in the Labor Party such as Senator Cameron. I reject those attacks, and I think most Australians reject those attacks absolutely and completely.</para>
<para>We also saw another maiden speech this week—in the ACT assembly. I would like to pay tribute to and congratulate Candice Burch, the newest Liberal member of the ACT Legislative Assembly. Candice comes in on a casual vacancy caused by the very sad death of the Steve Doszpot, which I spoke about in this place before Christmas. Steve will, of course, be greatly missed. Candice is an outstanding young parliamentarian. In fact, Candice coming into the ACT assembly means that the Liberal opposition, which holds 11 of the 25 seats in the ACT assembly, now for the very first time has a majority of women—six women out of 11. I think it is worth acknowledging that milestone. The Labor Party in the ACT also, I believe, has a majority. But the milestone that has been achieved by the Liberal Party in the ACT, with six outstanding women and five outstanding men, has been achieved without quotas. If I were to reflect on it, I would say it has come about because of a culture that has enabled people to be their best—be they men or women.</para>
<para>Looking at the diversity of those women and men, they represent multicultural diversity in Australia and the ACT. We have people like Elizabeth Lee, who has a Korean background. Candice Burch came from South Africa. Giulia Jones has an Italian background and Elizabeth Kickert has a Pacific Islander background. It is a really diverse and capable team. I think it is worth paying tribute to them.</para>
<para>In particular, I pay tribute to Candice on her maiden speech, which I thought was outstanding. She spoke about her family's journey. She spoke about her work as a Commonwealth public servant in the Department of Finance. She has an economics background and I think she'll be a great addition to the team in terms of her knowledge of the economy and finance. Also, she spoke very passionately about freedom and the values that led her to join the Liberal Party, stand for election and, in sad circumstances, come in on a countback and have the opportunity to serve the people of the ACT and the people of the Kurrajong electorate. For those from other places, Kurrajong is in the inner north and inner south of Canberra. Where we are sitting right now is in the inner south of Canberra. Just on the other side of the lake, on the other side of the city, is the inner north, which is the other part of the electorate of Kurrajong. So Candice is representing the inner north and the inner South, along with Elizabeth Lee, the other Liberal who represents the seat.</para>
<para>Candice spoke very passionately about what she wants to do for her electorate. She spoke about the great freedoms: freedom of religion, freedom of speech and freedom of enterprise. These freedoms are foundational to the Liberal Party and they are foundational, I believe, to Western democracy—the idea that, with only the smallest of limits, people should be free to say what they like, free to sometimes say things that might offend other people, free to practice their faith, free to believe in whatever god they want or to not believe in God, free to express those religious views and free to live that faith in action, which is a great thing. Freedom of enterprise is about the ability to go about your life without having the government interfere in a burdensome way—to be able to go out there and start a business, to be able to employ people, to be able to be innovative and not have the government hold you back. These are foundational. People can do this. People have the opportunity to speak freely, to worship freely and to look after themselves and their family by earning a living, working hard and starting a business. Then, of course, there are things like freedom of association—the ability to join a union or not join a union and to be part of an organisation or not part of an organisation. If we protect these freedoms and these values, our nation will continue to be a wonderful place for decades and centuries into the future.</para>
<para>These are things that are foundational to the Liberal Party. I'm really pleased that we have a new member of the ACT Legislative Assembly who stands for those values and will stand up for those freedoms—sometimes when it's unpopular—and she'll do it as part of a really great team led by Alistair Coe, the Leader of the Liberal Party and the Leader of the Opposition, who is taking it to the ACT Labor-Greens government. But she'll do it as part of a team of which, for the first time, the majority are women. It has been achieved because of a culture that has enabled great women to put their hands up to have those opportunities to put themselves to the electorate, and the electorate has responded. I congratulate Candice and the entire team.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Gold Coast</title>
          <page.no>100</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:46</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I'm very pleased to again talk to the Senate chamber about Australia's sixth biggest city, and Queensland's second biggest city, the Gold Coast. As I think I've previously advised the Senate, I was very pleased to officially open my Senate office on the Gold Coast, in Southport, in October last year. It's been around 20 years since the Gold Coast has had a senator based there, with an office based on the Gold Coast, and I think it's going to make a difference to have some representation in the Senate chamber for that big city, which has such an exciting future. I think many people know that the Gold Coast is a fantastic place. It's obviously somewhere people go to a lot on holidays. But, as I always say to people, sure, it's a fantastic tourist destination—and it really is—but it is a real city with real needs that need to be addressed by government.</para>
<para class="italic">Senator Smith interjecting—</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Smith would think it was wrong of me not to mention that the Gold Coast recently got even better by getting its first Labor state member of parliament in several years, in Meaghan Scanlon—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Smith</name>
    <name.id>241710</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Their speeches still aren't as good as 'first Australian' ones!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I congratulate Senator Smith on welcoming Meaghan Scanlon's election to the parliament of Queensland, in the electorate of Gaven. But as good as the Gold Coast now is, with a state Labor member representing it for the first time in a long time, I'm very pleased to advise the Senate that the best is yet to come—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Smith</name>
    <name.id>241710</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>They're getting a Liberal member, are they?</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>being the Commonwealth Games. Of course, it'll be better still when we have even more Labor members there! But that's a work in progress. But, seriously, the best is yet to come with the Commonwealth Games, which are going to be held on the Gold Coast in April. There are only 48 days to go until the Commonwealth Games start. Every day you spend on the Gold Coast, you can feel the excitement building amongst the community about what will actually be the biggest event ever held in Queensland. There will be athletes attending from 70 nations, and there will be about 6,500 athletes and officials coming from those 70 nations. It's obviously a fantastic opportunity for the Gold Coast, but also for Queensland and Australia, to have 6,500 new ambassadors for one of Australia's greatest cities and greatest regions. I'm sure that, after the experience that the athletes and officials have at the Commonwealth Games, they will be fantastic ambassadors for the city well into the future.</para>
<para>Apart from it being a big sports event, it's a massive economic incentive for the city as well. It's been estimated to have about a $4 billion economic impact—a positive economic impact—and has created about 16,000 full-time jobs. That's one of the reasons why the then state Labor government, under Premier Anna Bligh, was so committed to winning this bid, despite opposition from the LNP at the time. We're now seeing the economic boom that is being provided in the Commonwealth Games.</para>
<para>One of the things that have been very much in the thinking of the organisers of the Commonwealth Games, and the state government, who has been behind it, is making sure that there is a really long-term legacy for the Gold Coast in staging the games. We don't want this just to be a one-off event where everyone has a great time but when they walk away there's no lasting benefit. I know there's been a lot of work undertaken on a bipartisan basis. I should recognise the efforts of former premiers Rob Borbidge and Peter Beattie, who have both been working very hard to make sure the city does get a long-term legacy. There's been a lot of new infrastructure built, whether it be sporting facilities or roads and transport infrastructure, that will benefit the city well into the future.</para>
<para>It has been disappointing to see some criticism coming from LNP state and federal members about the organisation of the Commonwealth Games. They have been nitpicking about a range of things which they have labelled 'political correctness'. It's just disappointing that, when we have the biggest event that the Gold Coast and Queensland will have ever staged, there would be people out there knocking the event just to score a few political points. I call on those LNP members: we've only got 48 days to go; let's get behind this event and make sure we are presenting a bipartisan, positive image about the Gold Coast to everyone who's going to be coming over here.</para>
<para>The other thing that I should mention is that there have been some concerns raised about transport to and from the Commonwealth Games. It's well understood that the Gold Coast has been facing large transport pressures over a long period of time. But I'm very confident that the plan the state government has got in place will manage the additional burden that the Commonwealth Games will place on the transport network in and around the Gold Coast. Again it has been disappointing to see some LNP members, state and federal, jumping on this transport issue and trying to make out that it's going to be a massive problem and that the state government is to blame. We have even seen this week the federal member for Moncrieff, Steve Ciobo, saying in the Gold Coast newspapers that the solution to the Gold Coast traffic issues going forward is building a hyperloop which would enable people to jump in a<inline font-style="italic"> Jetsons</inline>-style carrier and get to Brisbane from the Gold Coast in 10 minutes. As I have said to the Gold Coast media, I'm all for big ideas, but it's a bit of a shame that Minister Ciobo hasn't shown the same enthusiasm about projects that would be ready to go right now if only they could get a bit more support from this federal government.</para>
<para>We know very well—I've talked about this in the past—that the federal government under both Tony Abbott and Malcolm Turnbull has been very slow to come to the party for funding to upgrade the M1, the major highway between Brisbane and the Gold Coast. That work could have been undertaken if only we'd had a federal government prepared to put its hand in its pocket and provide the same level of funding as they're willing to provide over the border in New South Wales. I'm glad an agreement has been finally reached on that; it's just a shame that it took so long.</para>
<para>Even on light rail, one of the things that has really revolutionised the Gold Coast, the then Abbott government didn't want to play ball and opposed the construction of stage 1. The then Liberal opposition opposed stage 1 of the light rail and didn't want to see it funded, but when federal Labor under the Rudd and Gillard governments did find funding for it they had to be dragged kicking and screaming to fund stage 2 of the light rail, which fortunately is now open. There is a consistent pattern here: every single major investment that has occurred in transport at the Gold Coast over recent years has been led by state or federal Labor governments or both. We really need to see that effort being matched by this federal government as well.</para>
<para>As I said, Minister Ciobo has been in the media on the Gold Coast this week, talking about a hyperloop, something no-one can actually put a cost on. No-one knows how soon it could be delivered, but, let's face it, it's going to be a long time off. The best thing Steve Ciobo could be doing is using his role as a senior cabinet minister to be getting funding from the Turnbull government to put into the Cross River Rail network, which is a project the state government has actually started work on. As yet, we've had not a single dollar put into the Cross River Rail project by the federal government under Malcolm Turnbull. Despite the fact that they have every single federal seat on the Gold Coast, they're not prepared to invest in rail infrastructure that will make a big difference on the Gold Coast. There's a common misunderstanding that because Cross River Rail mainly involves rectifying the tracks and building new networks in Brisbane there's no benefit to the Gold Coast. That's actually completely incorrect. It is critical that this Cross River Rail project happens to make sure that we can increase the number of trains and the number of passengers getting to use the train from the Gold Coast. It's been estimated that when it goes ahead it will take about 16,000 cars off the M1 between Brisbane and the Gold Coast every single day, so it would actually save people travelling from the Gold Coast about 15 minutes each way in their journey. That can only be a good thing for Gold Coast residents, so it would just be nice to see one of the four LNP federal members take this issue up and try and get some money out of their own government.</para>
<para>But, despite all of that, as I say, I'm very confident that the transport plan that the state government has ready to go is going to work for the Commonwealth Games. It's going to be just one reason why these go down as the best Commonwealth Games ever and the very biggest and best event that Queensland has ever staged.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Prisons</title>
          <page.no>102</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:55</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SIEWERT</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Tonight I rise to speak on the Human Rights Watch report <inline font-style="italic">'I needed help, instead </inline><inline font-style="italic">I</inline><inline font-style="italic"> was punished': abuse and neglect of prisoners with disab</inline><inline font-style="italic">ilitie</inline><inline font-style="italic">s in </inline><inline font-style="italic">A</inline><inline font-style="italic">ustralia</inline>. The report was released last week and takes an in-depth look at the experience of adult prisoners with disabilities whilst in prison. The focus of the report is the experiences of those in WA and Queensland prisons. These jurisdictions were chosen because:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… they are geographically and ethnically diverse and are representative of the issues people with disabilities, particularly Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander people with disabilities, face in the criminal justice system across Australia.</para></quote>
<para>Research in the report was primarily conducted in the form of interviews. They visited 14 prisons and interviewed 275 people, including 136 current or recently released prisoners with disabilities between the ages of 17 and 78. Of those, 63 were Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people.</para>
<para>People with disability make up almost 50 per cent of the prison population, although they only make up around 18 per cent of Australia's population. That, for a start, should start raising concerns. The report also draws attention to the fact that Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people are overrepresented in our prisons. People will note that I've talked about that in this place on numerous occasions. In June last year, Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people made up 28 per cent of the country's full-time population in adult prisons. It is expected that, by the year 2020, Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people will make up a staggering 50 per cent of the prison population. If this is not a crisis, I'd like to know what is.</para>
<para>Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people with disability are even more likely to end up behind bars. They face many additional challenges. As the report says:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… the disability is often undetected in childhood, and even when it is, support services are difficult to access, putting them on a path where they are more likely to be incarcerated than get a university degree.</para></quote>
<para>The offences they are charged with are often less serious, such as public disorder and vehicle regulations offences. The report, which aims to contribute to the limited information available on the experiences of people with disability in prison, details harrowing, systemic abuse of this group. It also illuminates the government's failure to fulfil its international obligations, particularly under the Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities.</para>
<para>We already know that life behind bars is challenging. Prisoners with disabilities face additional challenges including overcrowding, a lack of accessible facilities and negative staff attitudes, and often find it difficult to adapt to this new environment and its extraordinary stresses. They are also at a higher risk of violence and abuse, including bullying and harassment and verbal, physical and sexual violence. The report says:</para>
<quote><para class="block">In all 14 prisons visited, Human Rights Watch found that prisoners with disabilities are viewed as easy targets and as a result are at serious risk of violence and abuse …</para></quote>
<para>Thirty-two cases of sexual violence and 41 cases of physical violence were documented as a result of research interviews. The report says:</para>
<quote><para class="block">One woman with a disability told Human Rights Watch: "The officers [use] intimidation tactics. Especially for us girls, that just reminds us of our domestic violence back home, it scares us. If you want to get through to us, they should be nice to us."</para></quote>
<para>Such experiences perpetuate the cycle of violence and lead to distrust of the prison staff. An Aboriginal woman with psychosocial disability said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">I'm an easy target because of mental illness. If we get caught fighting, they will tell the officer, 'She hit first because the voices told her.'</para></quote>
<para>Those with psychosocial or cognitive difficulties:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… can find it extremely challenging to understand prison rules and follow instructions. As a result, they are at higher risk of violating the rules and of facing violence from other prisoners and staff.</para></quote>
<para>More support and reasonable accommodation would assist these individuals. It is simply staggering to read that prisoners were appointed as prison carers to look after other inmates with high support needs. In at least one case it culminated in the carer repeatedly raping his ward.</para>
<para>The case of a man with a psychosocial disability spending more than 19 years in solitary confinement in maximum security units is also highly distressing. The report outlined:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Prisoners with a psychosocial or cognitive disability can spend weeks or months locked in solitary confinement in detention, or crisis or safety units, for 22 hours or more a day.</para></quote>
<para>The report makes key recommendations on how to better the experiences of people with disability whilst in custody, including ending the use of solitary confinement for prisoners with disabilities, and asks the federal government to:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Conduct a national inquiry into the use of solitary confinement of prisoners with disabilities.</para></quote>
<para>The report demonstrates the need for a comprehensive, independent study of people with disability in prison. This needs to include the type of disability and their support needs. This needs to be undertaken at a national level and should look at the conditions of people with disabilities in prisons. People also need to be systematically screened for all types of disabilities when entering prison, and then receive appropriate supports including mental health services. Prison staff need to be properly trained to identify and support people with disability in prison.</para>
<para>Currently, the system relies mostly on self-reporting, and this is problematic as many prisoners do not know they have a disability and do not identify as having a disability. This is particularly the case with Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples. They may not have been diagnosed before they enter prison or are cautious to make it known they have a disability for fear of stigma.</para>
<para>The report overwhelmingly demonstrates the need for consistency and independent monitoring of places of detention. Western Australia already has an independent inspector, whereas Queensland does not, nor does the Northern Territory, Victoria or South Australia. But these states were not subjects of the report.</para>
<para>The evidence shows that there is a marked difference in the treatment of those in prison when there is an independent mechanism. There is an improvement in the treatment of the prisoners and the complaints are investigated faster.</para>
<para>This report highlights the disgrace of the impact of the abuses that people with disability are suffering in prison, particularly impacting on Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples. I urge the government to take on the recommendations from this report. I repeat for the government: 'I needed help, instead I was punished.' I urge the government to take on board these reports.</para>
<para>The other thing, for me, that came out of this report when I read it is that we need to be making sure that people with disability don't end up in the justice system. When 50 per cent of the population of prisons have a disability, that sends a massive signal that we are doing something very wrong. The government needs to be taking that on board as well, and making sure that we end this disgrace where people with disability are more likely to end up in prison. I urge the government to take on board these recommendations.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>East Perth Jewish Cemetery</title>
          <page.no>103</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:04</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SMITH</name>
    <name.id>241710</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>From the moment we're born to the last breath we take, we should always endeavour to celebrate as much of one's life as possible. We start writing our life stories as soon as we live them, and, if we're fortunate, they survive through the years and generations to be told and remembered long after we're gone. No-one knows this better than communities that have shared values or common cultural heritage, or who are united by faith.</para>
<para>In December last year, I attended the rededication of the Jewish pioneer cemetery in East Perth. Western Australia's Jewish community has a proud and rich history in my home state of Western Australia. It can trace its beginnings back to the settlement of the Swan River Colony in 1829, where the Samson family played a significant commercial, political and social role, particularly in and around Fremantle and Perth.</para>
<para>The convict era saw almost 10,000 British convicts sent to Western Australia on 43 ships from 1850 to 1868. Twenty-seven Jews were among those convicts brought over to a new and, I'm sure, daunting land. One of those Jewish convicts, David Joseph, was transported to WA, convicted on a charge of breaking and entering. Joseph died in May 1867, and was buried in the Church of England section of the East Perth Cemeteries. His ticket-of-leave compatriots, Abraham Rosenberg, Isaac Harris and Henry Seeligson petitioned for a separate burial ground for Jews. This act represented the first organised Jewish activity in Western Australia, despite the presence of Jewish settlers from the earliest days of the colony. Governor John Hampton agreed to their request, and designated Perth town lot E72 to be a cemetery for members of the Jewish persuasion. The lot was bounded by Stokes, Wickham and North Plains streets, and town lot E73. It was one rood and 32 perches. The three men exhumed Joseph's body and reinterred it, following traditional Jewish custom, in the new designated grounds of the cemetery.</para>
<para>In his introductory remarks at the rededication ceremony held late last year, Dr Keith Shilkin provided some historical context about the cemetery. He explained that between 1867 and 1899, when Karrakatta became the city's cemetery, 32 Jews were buried in this East Perth cemetery. It's noteworthy that of the 32, 11 died under one year of age, and half of the 32 were under the age of five. Many of the adults were only in their 30s or 40s; just one survived to be over 80. Over the years, poor life expectancy together with other demographic factors have all served to keep the Jewish population of the state at around just half of one per cent.</para>
<para>According to the 1891 census, Perth's Jewish population comprised just 43 people. This small but strong community welcomed the first ordained minister of the Jewish faith to Western Australia in that same year. Reverend Abraham Tobias Boas consecrated the Jewish cemetery during the several weeks he spent in Western Australia, much to the appreciation and joy of our then small Jewish contingent. The following year, in 1892, the Perth Hebrew Congregation was formed and assumed responsibility for the management of the Jewish cemetery. Dr Shilkin also remarked at the rededication ceremony, 'A Jewish community has remained here, thrived and has helped to enrich our state with its energy, talent and commitment.'</para>
<para>Remained and thrived it has. Throughout their history, WA's Jewish community has ensured the survival and celebration of their customs and traditions. In 1896, for example, the Perth Hebrew Congregation commenced the construction in Brisbane Street in Perth of a synagogue which was consecrated on its completion the following year by Rabbi DI Freedman.</para>
<para>According to the most recent census, WA's Jewish population now numbers well over 5,000, making it Australia's third-largest Jewish community. Most of Perth's Jewish population remains centred in the northern suburbs of Yokine, Coolbinia, Menora and Dianella. As it continues to grow, the characteristic sense of coming home that this community has established continues to grow and thrive. This includes having a final resting place to call their own, which is why the Jewish pioneer cemetery is so important. It is the connection between past and present. Approximately a quarter of those buried in the cemetery have living descendants in Western Australia, some of whom were in attendance at the ceremony. It's a source of great historical and cultural significance, providing a touchstone for the beginnings of Jewish family at settlement.</para>
<para>We must acknowledge those in the community who not only engage in understanding their history but who keep those stories alive. Their determination to keep alive the tenets and principals of their faith in this remote corner of the world by ensuring that members of their community were able to be buried in consecrated ground should not ever be forgotten.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Gold Coast Commonwealth Games</title>
          <page.no>104</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:10</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator IAN MACDONALD</name>
    <name.id>YW4</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I congratulate all of the LNP members on the Gold Coast in my home state of Queensland on the wonderful work they have done in getting the Commonwealth Games to that city. As someone who has paid rates on the Gold Coast for more than 30 years, I know the Gold Coast well, and was amused at the previous speaker, Senator Watt, who claims to be a Gold Coast senator, but actually lives in Brisbane and pretends to represent the Gold Coast.</para>
<para>John-Paul Langbroek, the member for Surfers Paradise, has been a leading light for many years in the push to get the Commonwealth Games to the Gold Coast. I also mention the federal LNP members on the Gold Coast, all of whom have done a wonderful job in promoting the Gold Coast over many years: Stephen Ciobo, Mr Roberts, Ms Andrews—there are so many, I sometimes don't remember them all. The state members have done a fabulous job. I congratulate them and all Queensland governments in the past for getting the Commonwealth Games to the Gold Coast. The Gold Coast is a fantastic city. Thanks to the previous Liberal-National Party government, a significant amount of federal money has gone the to the light rail service that connects the northern Gold Coast area right through to Robina and will be extended. That is also a tribute to the wonderful mayor of the Gold Coast and his council, who have worked hard to achieve great things for the Gold Coast.</para>
<para>I'm very proud to say that the state members on the Gold Coast are all members of my political party, the Liberal-National Party of Queensland. We gained an extra seat there at the last election. People like Ros Bates, the member for Mudgeeraba; Mr David Crisafulli, the newly elected member for Broadwater, now the shadow minister for the environment; and Mr Michael Heart, the shadow minister for housing and public works—a long-term member in the Gold Coast area—have all worked hard along with, as I mentioned, John-Paul Langbroek, to get the games to the Gold Coast. There are so many LNP members on the coast that I struggle to remember them all: Mr Rob Molhoek, the member for Southport; Mr Sam O'Connor, the member for Bonney; Ray Stevens, the wonderful member for Mermaid Beach, previously the mayor of the Gold Coast, doing a great job down there; Jann Stuckey, the member for Currumbin; and the list goes on.</para>
<para>According to Senator Watt, this Gold Coast Commonwealth Games is all due to the good work of the current government and the one Labor member in the state sphere—there are none in the federal sphere—who comes from the Gold Coast. But the reality is that the Gold Coast has for a long time had so many good LNP and Liberal Party members who've done a great job promoting the coast. This isn't something that happens overnight, this activity is a result of promotion that has been going on for years.</para>
<para>I want to congratulate all of those involved. I acknowledge that the current state government is carrying on the good work. It will be a fabulous meeting at the Gold Coast. It will highlight and emphasise the wonderful assets we have in Queensland—the beaches of the Gold Coast are fabulous. Interestingly, many of the events of the Commonwealth Games will be held in other cities right throughout Queensland, and I'm delighted that the women's basketball will be played in the city of Townsville, where I have my office.</para>
<para>So it's a great event. I regret that Senator Watt tries to make political capital out of these events with which he and his political party have had little to do over the years, but it is a wonderful experience for Queensland and for all Australians. I can only urge every Australian who might be listening to this broadcast at this late hour on a Thursday night to think about going to the Gold Coast for the Commonwealth Games. Not only will they see a wonderful sporting event; they will see a wonderful city, wonderful beaches, and wonderful experiences and theme parks. It's a great place to go, and somewhere people should really think about attending during the time of the Commonwealth Games.</para>
<para>Senate adjourned at 19:16</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>105</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Tabling</title>
          <page.no>105</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Tabling</title>
          <page.no>105</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1></debate>
  </chamber.xscript>
</hansard>