
<hansard noNamespaceSchemaLocation="../../hansard.xsd" version="2.2">
  <session.header>
    <date>2017-06-14</date>
    <parliament.no>45</parliament.no>
    <session.no>1</session.no>
    <period.no>3</period.no>
    <chamber>Senate</chamber>
    <page.no>0</page.no>
    <proof>0</proof>
  </session.header>
  <chamber.xscript>
    <business.start>
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        <p class="HPS-SODJobDate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
          <span class="HPS-SODJobDate">
            <span style="font-weight:bold;"></span>
            <a type="" href="Chamber">Wednesday, 14 June 2017</a>
          </span>
        </p>
        <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
          <span class="HPS-Normal">
            <span style="font-weight:bold;">The PRESIDENT (Senator the Hon. </span>
            <span style="font-weight:bold;">Stephen Parry)</span> took the chair at 09:30, read prayers and made an acknowledgement of country.</span>
        </p>
      </body>
    </business.start>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>3783</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Tabling</title>
          <page.no>3783</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>3783</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Meeting</title>
          <page.no>3783</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:31</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Does any senator wish to have the question put on any proposal? There being none, we will proceed to business.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BILLS</title>
        <page.no>3783</page.no>
        <type>BILLS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Native Title Amendment (Indigenous Land Use Agreements) Bill 2017</title>
          <page.no>3783</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
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            <a type="Bill" href="r5821">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Native Title Amendment (Indigenous Land Use Agreements) Bill 2017</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>In Committee</title>
            <page.no>3783</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:32</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I table three supplementary explanatory memoranda relating to the government amendments to be moved to this bill and seek leave to move government amendments (1), (2) and (4) on sheet ZA429 together.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The government opposes schedule 1 in the following terms:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Schedule 1, item 4, page 3 (lines 23 and 24), to be opposed.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) Schedule 1, item 6, page 4 (lines 7 and 8), to be opposed.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(4) Schedule 1, item 11, page 6 (line 28) to page 7 (line 11), to be opposed.</para></quote>
<para>I thank the members of the Legal and Constitutional Affairs Legislation Committee and, in particular, the chairman of the committee, the distinguished father of the Senate, Senator Macdonald, for their work in reviewing the bill. The committee's majority report contained two recommendations, the key recommendation being that the bill be passed. This reflects the significant uncertainty that the native title sector was faced with following the decision in McGlade, something I mentioned in closing the second reading debate last night. The government was urged by Indigenous and non-Indigenous stakeholders alike to address the ambiguous situation faced by the parties to an estimated 126 ILUAs following that decision.</para>
<para>The committee's other recommendation is for the removal of two separate measures from the bill at this time, with the recommendation that they be considered in a later bill, involving government proposals arising from the 2015 Australian Law Reform Commission report <inline font-style="italic">Connection to country: review of the Native Title Act</inline>. The committee recommended that the proposed amendments to sections 251A and 251B of the act be removed. Those amendments, items 4 and 6 of schedule 1, would have permitted claim groups to authorise an ILUA and to make applications for compensation or the determination of native title by a traditional process or a method agreed upon by the group. These changes implemented recommendations 10-1 and 10-2 of the ALRC report. The Senate committee has taken the view that the amendments require further consultation and are not strictly necessary to respond to the McGlade decision. Given that the purpose of this bill, as I indicated last night, was merely to respond to the McGlade decision, their presence in the bill might be regarded as supererogatory. The government accepts this point of view and proposes to remove these measures from the bill and consider the issues again at a later point, along with other important recommendations made by the 2015 Law Reform Commission report.</para>
<para>The committee also recommended the removal of item 11 of the bill for later consideration. This item would have allowed for the validation of applications to register ILUAs and was intended to address any unforeseen consequences of McGlade. The committee formed the view that the impact of the provision was not clear. The government considers that the provision can be removed without affecting the integrity of the bill.</para>
<para>I also note that the committee expressed concerns about the onerous administrative burden placed on the South West Aboriginal Land and Sea Council and the Noongar people by having to proceed through the registration process once again. The committee, however, did not see this as an impediment to recommending that the Senate pass the bill, and I note the government's commitment to considering this in the future.</para>
<para>One further matter raised by the committee which I wish to comment on is the status of what are known as section 31 agreements under the Native Title Act following the McGlade decision. Section 31 agreements are another way that agreements can be made under the act through the right-to-negotiate procedure. While the McGlade decision did not involve these types of agreements, stakeholders have raised concerns about the potential that these agreements could be challenged. However, as agreements made under the right-to-negotiate procedure have different requirements to ILUAs, the government will consider these matters further and will consider the ramifications of McGlade on the right-to-negotiate procedure more closely with stakeholders before making amendments to the law.</para>
<para>Just to be clear, with these government amendments there is nothing in this bill at all that does anything beyond legislatively reverse the effect of the McGlade decision and reinstate the status quo ante of the law as settled by the Bygraves case.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:37</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DODSON</name>
    <name.id>SR5</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I wish to speak to the amendments moved by the minister but also to the other amendments that I know the government is intending to move—that is, those amendments on sheet ZA431 as well as those on sheet ZA429. Labor has been a long-time supporter of native title and the Indigenous land rights movement, and has worked for many decades to protect and strengthen these rights for Indigenous people around Australia. After the High Court decision, the 25th anniversary of which we celebrated around the nation last week, it was Labor that introduced and legislated the Native Title Act in 1993. That act, while achieving a balance of certainty for existing landholders, established a process for a legal system for native title claimants to achieve recognition and ownership of their ancestral lands. It is our strong belief that this amendment act and the developments of future legislative amendments that affect the act need to be carried out in a consultative and respectful way. Indigenous people need to provide their free, prior and informed consent on things that affect their interests, most especially on the issue of native title.</para>
<para>I want to reiterate that, for Labor, the amendments to the Native Title Act in this bill have always been about land rights, not mining rights. I wish that that were the case for the government, many of the senior members of which have made it clear that, for them, the bill is about the Adani Carmichael coalmine. The Prime Minister's statement and last year's closing the gap speech that did seek to do things with Indigenous people, not to them, reflects these same principles.</para>
<para>I was very disappointed to read the comments of the Prime Minister while he was in India, in April, where he said to the head of the Adani corporation that the native title laws that stood in the way of the mine would be fixed. In relation to specific amendments, Labor acknowledges that the decision of the full court of McGlade has created a great deal of uncertainty, both for native title holders and for other land users around Australia.</para>
<para>We have been informed by the government that some 125 Indigenous land-use area agreements that have been negotiated and agreed with native title holders and their respective representatives are now subject to uncertainty and potential renegotiation. So let me make it clear again: there are some 125 ILUAs that this bill will validate and we accept that this is a just outcome for the communities that made those agreements under the law as it then was and to those with whom they made those agreements. But it is not my understanding that this bill will provide some kind of green light for the Adani mine as some media reports seem to suggest. To the contrary.</para>
<para>I understand that the Wangan and Jagalingou people—the traditional owners of much of the land on which the mine and its facilities are proposed to be built—have several legal actions afoot against Adani. Most of this litigation will be entirely unaffected by the passage of this bill. In particular, there are very serious allegations of fraud that have been made against Adani regarding the processes under which agreements with the Wangan and Jagalingou people were purportedly reached. And those proceedings, which may impact on the validity of any ILUA, will only commence hearings in March next year.</para>
<para>Other legal action is always underway, including a case challenging the validity of the licences issued by the Queensland government. Be that as it may, since the decision in McGlade we have sought to work constructively with the government to agree upon a position that balances the need for a reasonable and timely resolution of the matters with the need to properly consult with Indigenous people, native title holders and their representatives. That is why we insisted that the legislation be the subject of a proper Senate inquiry prior to its passage through the parliament. A very short time was agreed upon by the government for submissions—only one day of hearings was allowed.</para>
<para>Despite those constraints, in the process of the Senate inquiry a number of very significant issues arose with the bill. First, despite the assertion in the explanatory memorandum that the legislation 'amends the Native Title Act 1993 to resolve the uncertainty created by the full Federal Court decision in McGlade' in fact, the draft bill contained provisions that went well beyond that objective. Those included but were not limited to amendments that had been first proposed by the Australian Law Reform Commission in its report <inline font-style="italic">Connection to </inline><inline font-style="italic">c</inline><inline font-style="italic">ountry</inline>. Second, it became clear to us that little or no consultation had occurred with Indigenous people prior to the introduction of the legislation.</para>
<para>Considering the significance of these changes, we considered this as a breach of the concept of free, prior and informed consent. Through the Senate committee process, Labor senators secured important amendments to the legislation which removed those provisions that went beyond the stated purpose of the bill. That inquiry recommended:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… subject to paragraph 2.75, that proposed amendments to sections 251A and 251B of the Native Title Act 1993 be removed from the current bill and dealt with in any later bill involving government proposals arising from the Australian Law Reform Commission report …</para></quote>
<para>Following the Senate inquiry tabled on Monday, 20 March 2017 the government undertook to draft amendments to give effect to this agreed position. More than a week later, on Tuesday, 28 March 2017, the government tabled amendments and sought to have the legislation debated prior to the April recess. Unfortunately, in subsequent briefings from the Attorney-General's Department, it quickly became clear that these amendments were again defective in a number of respects: (a) they contained provisions which went beyond the original intentions of the bill and the agreed position of the Senate inquiry; and (b) not one single person outside the government, Indigenous or otherwise, had been consulted in their preparation. Labor considered this to be such a breach of the good-faith agreement reached through the Senate committee process and a clear breach of the concept, again, of free prior and informed consent.</para>
<para>It was necessary for the government to urgently convene, for the purposes of consultation, a meeting of the major native title representative bodies under the umbrella of the Native Title Council. Labor supported these consultations, although they were brief and some of the amendments were still unclear. I note that Senator Brandis had been selectively generous in his recognition of my role in encouraging this point of consultation and I thank him for that. However, he is completely wrong in saying that I have been alone in supporting a balanced and principled position on this issue. My Senate and House colleagues have been of one mind and one focus in working through the issue, and I thank them for that.</para>
<para>At the Melbourne consultation arranged by the government, we noted that a further amendment was proposed to address concerns raised by representatives of the Cape York Land Council over the longstanding ILUA that underpins the Weipa agreement, the Western Cape Communities Coexistence Agreement. Even after that point, the government sought to rush through passage in the last sittings, which was a simple stunt on the pretence that the sky was about fall in and it was only the Attorney-General who was going to be able to hold the sky up.</para>
<para>Labor seeks to work constructively and productively with the government but this process has been challenging, leading to the sentiment expressed in Senator McCarthy's amendment in the second reading speech moved and agreed to yesterday. We seek to ensure that the land use agreement system is sufficiently stable and sound after the judicial decision in McGlade that created a high degree of uncertainty, not only for those agreements before McGlade but for the security and clarity of agreement making going forward. Agreement making is important to Labor and we support the need for some sense of confidence for those native title holders who have negotiated access and use agreements across the country. Having removed many of the problematic elements of the draft bill, and having now engaged in consultations, at least with those native title representative bodies and those who made submissions to the Senate committee, Labor can now support the amendments.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:48</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SIEWERT</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I have a few comments to make, but I should also let the chamber know I have a series of questions to the Attorney-General through you, Chair, that I will be seeking some clarification on. First off, I very quickly wanted to address some of the comments that Senator Brandis made last night and, in fact, Senator Dobson just touched on then, in terms of the consultation process and how the message Senator Brandis was intending to deliver yesterday was that everybody should be on board now because they have held another meeting and there is consensus now to these amendments! There is not consensus to these amendments. Yes, the bill is a relatively short bill, but it deals with complex issues. It does not mean just because a bill is short that it does not still involve complex issues.</para>
<para>There is not consensus, because last night we had people in the gallery who were clearly not on board with supporting these amendments. Just last night I had an email from a member of the Noongar community in Perth, Western Australia, who clearly was representing a number of people who do not support these changes. So there is not consensus. There was one more meeting that the Attorney-General convened and invited people from the representative bodies to. I acknowledge that that was extra, and that is a good thing, but you cannot claim that you have consensus because you convened that particular meeting.</para>
<para>We were getting, and we are still getting, a lot of messages from people saying, 'Don't support these amendments.' These are people that recognise that we need to be addressing this issue, and I and the Greens have acknowledged that in our contributions. We need to be addressing these issues. We are deeply concerned that these amendments are being rushed through because of Adani. These issues have been on the books for some time, and all of a sudden the government decide that they are going to deal with it now.</para>
<para>I will indicate that, although we cannot support the bill because we are still concerned about these amendments, we will be supporting this particular set of amendments because they deal with part of the concerns that were expressed during the Senate inquiry and that the Greens had identified. The amendments do pull back a little bit on the changes being made around the decision-making process. On schedule 11, I am also pleased to see that the ALP did in fact pick up on the issues that I raised through the Senate inquiry. So I can indicate that we will be supporting the amendments on this sheet, ZA429, even if that means we have to vote in the negative, because the question we will be asked to vote on is whether we should support the bill as printed.</para>
<para>However, what I would like to do now is to go to some of the questions that I have. I have some general questions, and I also have some specific questions around the second set of government amendments, which are on sheet ZA431. I ask this through you, Chair, to the Attorney-General: I do not know if you want to deal with them all at once or if you would rather do it when we deal with that amendment.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Brandis</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>We will deal with them together.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SIEWERT</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you. I have some overarching questions first, in that case. Could I ask now: do we have a definitive list of the agreements that are affected by the McGlade decision? We have never been able to get a clarified number.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:53</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>We understand it to be 126.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:53</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SIEWERT</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you. That was the number that we were given during the Senate inquiry, and I understood it was an approximate number. Also, as I understand it, the second set of amendments, around Cape York, were not on the table at the time. They certainly were not discussed during the Senate inquiry, and I would like to know whether they are included in this particular list.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:53</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The figure of 126 is the number of registered ILUAs. As you know, the way in which this system works is that ILUAs are registered, so one can rely upon the state of the register for accurate guidance. That is, as I am advised, the number that are registered, and all that are capable of registration should have been registered. So that is the best information that we can provide from the state of the register.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:54</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SIEWERT</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Can I just clarify something—and I will not be asking particular questions around the other amendments. Does that mean that they were already in the mix but the issues around those specific agreements—and I will come to the numbers when we discuss that amendment—were already there? They are not additional agreements that were subsequently identified as having issues?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:54</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>So I am advised, yes.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:55</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SIEWERT</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>As to the agreements that had been agreed to and for which an application was before the registrar but which were not registered—in other words, those going through the process—can you tell us how many are in that category, please?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:55</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Eight.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:55</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SIEWERT</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Are you able to identify those? I presume that includes the south-west ILUAs?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:55</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I am advised it does, yes.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:55</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SIEWERT</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Does that mean there are six there, plus Adani—the Wangan and Jagalingou ILUA? If I am correct there, could you identify the remaining one, please.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:55</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I will see if my officials can provide me with a list. Perhaps you could go on to your next question while we see if we have a list here in the chamber that can be read onto the record.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:56</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SIEWERT</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>While I am on the list, are you now able to provide the list of the 126?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:56</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The 126 are those that are currently on the register. So I will direct you to the register.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:56</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SIEWERT</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Sorry, but there are more than 126 on the register.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:56</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>That is not what I am advised, Senator Siewert. Going back to your earlier question: the number of ILUAs affected by McGlade, pending registration, as I said, is eight. You will have to forgive my pronunciation but they are the Wuthathi Land Transfer ILUA, lodged on 22 December 2016; the FMG Palyku Land Access ILUA, lodged on 25 January 2017; the FMG Kariyarra Land Access ILUA, lodged on 6 December 2016; the Bellary Springs ILUA, notification ended 15 February 2017; the Sandstone Western Land Transfer ILUA, notification ended 7 March 2017; the Melsonby ILUA, notification ended 7 March 2017; the Peninsula Developmental Road ILUA, notification ended 7 March 2017; and the Adani Mining Carmichael Project ILUA, notification ended 22 September 2016. So those are the eight that are pending.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:58</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATERS</name>
    <name.id>192970</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, on those eight I have two questions. What was the nature of the resource proposed to be under development? Obviously, it is coal, for the Carmichael Adani mine; what is the resource for the other ILUAs? Then I will have a second question as well.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:58</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I am not able to provide that information to you because, in respect of each of those ILUAs, that is commercial-in-confidence.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:58</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATERS</name>
    <name.id>192970</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>That is ridiculous. How can we not know? How is it commercial-in-confidence—the whole subject of this bill? You are trying to facilitate these ILUAs being deemed valid, even though the majority have not, in fact, agreed—or, rather, there has not been unanimous support by the native title claimants. How can you not tell us basic facts like that?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:59</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator, you seem to be under the misapprehension that the full terms of an agreement are open for inspection on the register. That is not the case. It is, as I am advised, very commonplace for there to be confidential commercial terms in an ILUA, and they are not registered so as to be a matter of public disclosure.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:59</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATERS (</name>
    <name.id>192970</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>— ) ( ): Minister, I was not asking you to disclose the ILUAs; I am asking about what resource the ILUAs pertains to. That would surely be a matter of public record. You have umpteen officials up there. Could you tell us which minerals those ILUAs pertain to?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:00</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>That is not what I have advised. The advice I have received is that those matters are commercial in confidence.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:0</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATERS</name>
    <name.id>192970</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, if you are not able to reveal that information, are you trying to say that there would not already be a mining lease for those sorts of operations?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:0</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Waters, you are asking me for particulars about certain particular ILUAs that I am not in a position to provide and that I am advised I am not at liberty to provide.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:0</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATERS</name>
    <name.id>192970</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Of the eight ILUAs that are in process, for those projects that they relate to, have other permits already been gained by the applicant; or is the ILUA at the very start of the process, and other land-use permissions have not yet been gained?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:0</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I am sorry to say, Senator, you are asking me for a degree of detail that I am not in a position to provide. These are not questions about the bill; these are questions about the particular characteristics of certain ILUAs. If I can invite you to return to questions about the bill, that would be helpful.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:0</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATERS</name>
    <name.id>192970</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The line of my questioning goes to whether or not your party has received any donations from any of those eight proponents. We know that there has been from the Adani coal company; hence, I am trying to ascertain if it is just Adani that all of this palaver is about or whether you have other donors that also want you to help out their situation in stifling native title rights.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:0</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>If that is where you are going, you are barking up the wrong tree. I would not know what donations received by any political party beyond—but I can assure you that, so far as the political party which I represent in this chamber, the Liberal Party of Australia, is concerned, all disclosure obligations under the Commonwealth Electoral Act and under state electoral law are met in a very thorough and conscientious manner. But you are asking me about whether certain parties to agreements with which you would not expect me to be familiar are donors to political parties—I do not know, and I would not expect to be in a position to know.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:02</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SIEWERT</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Attorney-General, through you, Chair, are you able to give us with a written version of the list you have read out? That would help the debate.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:02</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Yes, I can do that. Might I say, just so there is no suggestion of there being any obscurity here, all the register of ILUAs contains is a description of the area covered, the names of the parties, the period of the agreement and if it includes an extinguishment. Those are the matters that are on the public record. None of the matters about which your colleague Senator Waters has just asked are matters of public record, so why you would be asking me about that, I do not know. The record speaks for itself, and a modest amount of research by you or your colleagues could have established what is on the record. Nevertheless, in relation to those that have not been registered yet, I have read the details of them onto the record, and I am happy to provide you with the list from which I read.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:03</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SIEWERT</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you. This pertains to the bill, and in fact, amendments that the Greens are going to be moving, which is why I am asking about this. The list you just read out—I am sorry if I am being obtuse here—does not include the south-west amendments from what I could tell and yet, in your previous answer, you said the list did include those, so I am seeking clarification about that list.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:04</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator, those ILUAs that you refer to, I am advised, are not on the list because they are no longer pending, because the effect of the McGlade decision was to knock them out.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:04</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SIEWERT</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>That is what I was seeking some clarification about. I got confused when you said they were on the list. I am not trying to be tricky here; I am just trying to get some clarification, because the list of the eight then changes. They are completely different to the ILUAs that would previously have been on the list.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:05</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>We are talking about three different things now. There are the ILUAs that are registered—that is the 126. There are the eight ILUAs that are pending, and those are on the list that I am providing to you and just read onto the record. Then there were some other ILUAs, including those to which you have referred, which had been pending registration but, as a consequence of the McGlade decision, were no longer capable of registration, as it were—and the purpose of this bill, as you know, is to reverse legislatively the effect of the McGlade decision.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:05</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SIEWERT</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you for that clarification—it is much clearer. I want to go back to the 126 ILUAs and get an understanding of the answer that you gave. During the Senate inquiry hearing, we were told very clearly that the 126 was a bit of a rubbery number and you could not tell us what the agreements were because there was not a clear understanding of which agreements had the majority sign-on and which actually had all the named applicants on them. Am I to understand from the answer you just gave that we are now clear about that? Why weren't you and the department able to tell us during the Senate inquiry what the list of 126 was when we asked? We definitely were not told during the Senate inquiry.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:06</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>First of all, I have just given you a copy of a list that you have been seeking. That is being provided to you by the attendant as we speak. I am not in a position to inform you of that much detail. I was not, as you would know, at the Senate committee hearing. My officers, no doubt, were very forthcoming about the information they had. The figure of 126 is the figure that has been arrived at by inspection of the register.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:07</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SIEWERT</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question referred to the 126—I am sorry if I was not clear. Why could you not have told us that in the inquiry when there were specific questions around the number of agreements? We were clearly told that we could not know all of them and that there was some question mark over the numbers and what was on the list because you had not been through them.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:07</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>As you know, I was not at the inquiry, but I am advised by the officers of my department who were and who are with me in the chamber today that the number was not available at the time because the tribunal was still working through the register to establish the number. That number has now been established and, in response to your question, I am telling you the number that has been established is 126.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:08</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SIEWERT</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Are the separate 126 now listed on the website? You told me to go and look at the website. How would I know, if they are not listed separately, which are the ones that are in scope?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:08</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I did not actually say you should look at the website; I said you should look at the register. The register is a public document. By what mode it is inspectable and whether it is online or not, I am not sure. That is a matter for the tribunal.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:09</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SIEWERT</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>If we are going to split hairs, no, you did not say website; you said register. I am a modern girl. I expected that they would be listed on the website. However, let us go to the context of the issue and the substance of the issue. Is there a separate list of the 126? If so, please table it.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:09</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I am told there is no list on a website, and I am not in a position to table the list because I do not have the list with me. Senator Siewert, I think you are asking me to compile a list or to inquire whether a list has been compiled.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:10</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SIEWERT</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Yes. If I had not pursued this line of questioning, one would take from your first answer of 'Look, it's on the register' that one could easily go to the register and find these agreements. You cannot unless there is a separate list. So my question is: is there a separate list? You have just said you do not have it with you. That does not mean there is not a separate list. Can you, therefore, take on notice and provide to this chamber a list of those agreements?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:10</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I am advised there is not a list. The details—or those of the details that I have indicated are a matter of public record—are available by inspection of the register, and, with all due respect, it is not for my officials to do your research for you. The register is a public document. By whatever mode accessible, it is a public document, and if you want to inspect the register it is available to you.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:11</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SIEWERT</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>In other words, you have the list—you must have the list because you know categorically that there are 126—and you are not prepared to provide that list to this chamber or take it on notice. They are the very agreements that we are having this debate about, and you are not prepared to provide that list; you are telling us to go through the whole register to find them. Is that what you are saying?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:11</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I actually said I do not have a list.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Siewert</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>But how do you know there are 126?</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>You just asserted to me that I had said I have a list and I am not prepared to provide it to you. That is not the case. I do not have a list. The figure of 126 was established by the tribunal by their inspection of the register, so perhaps this is an inquiry you ought to direct to the tribunal. I do not have a list, but I do have advice from the tribunal that, on the basis of their examination of the register, the number is 126.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:12</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SIEWERT</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>You have never inquired? There has been speculation that these agreements cover some national parks and that, during the process of negotiation of the agreements, some covered agreements reached over native title. You have never inquired as to the nature of these agreements—for example, what mining areas or other areas do they cover? You keep telling us that there are areas in these agreements that are at risk and that there are important things that are at stake here, yet you have never inquired as to the nature of those agreements or asked for the list.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:13</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I certainly have not. These are registered ILUAs. My concern has been to protect their registration following the McGlade decision, and that is my only concern. There have been a lot of wild things said in this debate, including from your party—and not only your party—many of them inaccurate, speculative and at variance from reality, so I am not going to reflect upon the sentiment you have just expressed. Suffice it to say, the bill before the chamber does one thing and one thing only, and that is to protect the ILUAs that would have been put at risk by the McGlade decision, and there are 126 of them. I am advised they are available—or at least the public details of them are available—on the register.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:13</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SIEWERT</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Just for the record, I was not wildly speculating about the national parks or the issue around the agreements being reached over native title during the agreement process. It is on the record from the Senate inquiry that these may be. I am seeking to clarify whether they were or not. I found it astounding that there is not a list available to back up the claims of urgency for dealing with this matter.</para>
<para>I turn specifically to the South West ILUAs. Could you clarify for us now the process from here, if this bill goes through—and I am speculating that it probably will—for the South West ILUAs? The reason I am asking is that there is now some doubt in the community about the process. We were told one thing during the Senate inquiry, and certainly there is a group in the South West who understand the process a bit differently. I know the South West Aboriginal Land and Sea Council had some concerns about the process as well. So, for the record, could you please clarify what that process is?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:15</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I hope I can. I am advised that the relevant representative body will have to restart the application process—in other words, apply again. I am advised that they will not have to go through the authorisation process but they will have to apply for registration of the ILUA in accordance with the provisions of the act.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:15</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SIEWERT</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>That is a useful clarification, because, as I said, there is some misunderstanding at the moment. I can tell you that because I got an email about it last night. Just to be clear, that means that they go through the application process and people get an opportunity again to lodge complaints about the process and go through that process. Is that right?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:16</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Yes.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:16</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SIEWERT</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you for that clarification. Have there been any agreements lodged for registration following the McGlade decision but prior to the tribunal's moratorium coming into effect?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:16</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>No, because the moratorium took effect immediately upon the decision.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:16</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SIEWERT</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Did the moratorium only deal with applications that did not meet the McGlade requirement? Is that correct?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:17</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Yes. I am so advised.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:17</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SIEWERT</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Have there been any applications made that do meet the McGlade decision?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:17</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I am not aware of there being any, but I will have that checked. There may be, but I will have that checked.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:17</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SIEWERT</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Just to be clear, there have been no applications received but not dealt with?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:18</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I am sorry; I can give you a better response to your earlier question. I am advised that there are some that were pending that are not affected by McGlade. I am just trying to get a number for you.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:18</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SIEWERT</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you. While you are getting that number, in terms of the moratorium can I just be clear: there have been no applications received or none dealt with? Do you see the difference that I am making?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:18</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I do understand the distinction you draw, and I am having that checked by my officials—that is, whether or not, the moratorium having come into effect at once upon the McGlade decision, nevertheless there were applications lodged but not accepted, as it were, as a result of the moratorium. I will have that checked.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:19</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SIEWERT</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you. Then there is the group that would have come in that you have already taken on notice, around how many have met the McGlade requirements.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:19</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The answer to that last question is: I am advised that there are 10—that is 10 pending applications not affected by McGlade.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:20</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATERS</name>
    <name.id>192970</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I want to put to you a few facts from the Wangan and Jagalingou people, the claim group, and ask for your response based on contentions that you have put in this chamber about there having been majority support for Adani's Carmichael mine ILUA, which the W&J people refute. They say that on three occasions since 2012, the natural majority of the claim group have rejected an ILUA with Adani. They also say that in a meeting at which the current ILUA under application was voted upon that, whilst the vote was 294 to one, over 220 of the meeting's attendees were people who have never been involved in the Wangan and Jagalingou claim, and in fact that those people were bussed in at Adani's' expense. I seek your response to those facts.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:21</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>You say they are facts; they sound like allegations to me. I have never heard them before. I have absolutely no reason to believe they are true. Senator, can I remind you that the Commonwealth is not a party to the ILUA, so we are not involved in the process of the negotiation of the ILUA. If the ILUA is regularly arrived at in accordance with the Native Title Act, then it can be registered.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:21</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATERS</name>
    <name.id>192970</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, with due respect, that is the whole point of why we are here. The process has been dodgied up, and now you are trying to hastily patch it over for Adani. Clearly, this thing stinks to high hell, and you have on previous occasions insisted that the W&J—</para>
<para>The CHAIR: Senator Waters, please resume your seat.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:22</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>That needs to be withdrawn. It is unparliamentary. The senator said the process had been dodgied up, implying some level of degree of dishonesty or impropriety and the government was trying to patch it up for Adani. Those assertions or insinuations must be withdrawn.</para>
<para>The CHAIR: Senator Waters, if you made that imputation, I would ask you to withdraw.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:22</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATERS</name>
    <name.id>192970</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I will not, because I did make that imputation, and the reason is that the Prime Minister, in his own words—</para>
<para>The CHAIR: Senator Waters, I suggested to you that, if you made the imputation, you withdraw. You have admitted that you made the imputation, so please withdraw.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATERS</name>
    <name.id>192970</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>No. Can I go to the fact that the Prime Minister has acknowledged—</para>
<para>The CHAIR: Senator Waters, are you dissenting from the chair, because I have asked you to withdraw.</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATERS</name>
    <name.id>192970</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Fine; I will withdraw, but I have another question. The Prime Minister himself said, 'The issue needs to be fixed and will be fixed,' after he met the head of the Adani group in India. Clearly, this is trying to fix the issue, and hence my earlier imputation. So I stand by that, even though I have technically withdrawn it. My question—</para>
<para>The CHAIR: Senator Waters, please resume your seat. Minister.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:23</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Plainly, Madam Chairman, that is not good enough. You cannot withdraw an imputation and then remake it in the next sentence. The senator is being disrespectful of the chair and of the chamber.</para>
<para>The CHAIR: Thank you, Minister. Senator Waters, if you have withdrawn, you have withdrawn, and that is the end of the matter.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:23</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATERS</name>
    <name.id>192970</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I withdraw. There was no disrespect intended to the chair. But I do want to take the minister to the Prime Minister's comments, which were reported in the <inline font-style="italic">Fin Review</inline> on 11 April, when the Prime Minister had told Mr Adani, the head of the Adani group, in relation to native title:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The issue needs to be fixed and will be fixed.</para></quote>
<para>Minister, when the Prime Minister made that statement, how many traditional owner groups had your government spoken to, if any?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:24</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Plainly, there is a problem that does need to be fixed. This legislation is to restore the status quo ante, before, the McGlade decision, and that of course is what the Prime Minister was referring to. The government had a very extensive consultation, which I described last night in the second reading debate. In the end it was the unanimous view of all of the native title representative groups whom the government consulted—and all of them were invited to the consultation by the way—and I think it is right to say that all or nearly all attended. Also, as expressed by their peak body, the National Native Title Council, in the letter from Mr Kelly of 5 May that I read into the record last night, it was the unanimous view of the native title claimant groups that this problem needed to be fixed.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:25</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATERS</name>
    <name.id>192970</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>As at the date when the Prime Minister assured Mr Adani that he would fix the native title issues, how many traditional owner groups had you spoken to? I understand you have gone through a consultation process. My question is whether that was subsequent to the Prime Minister's promise to Mr Adani or antecedent.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:25</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I cannot immediately tell you the date on which the Prime Minister visited India, but the consultation with the native title holders occurred on 27 April. Prior to that, though, within a matter of days of the McGlade decision being delivered—that is, not later than the second week of February this year—Senator Scullion and I met with Mr Kelly, the CEO of the National Native Title Council, the peak body that speaks for all native title groups, and he, at that meeting, urged us to fix the problem, or words to the effect of, 'Fix the problem caused by the McGlade decision,' and to ask the parliament to do so urgently, and we did. The purpose of the consultation meeting on 27 April was merely to share the government's proposed bill with the native title claimant groups to ensure they were happy with the manner of the solution to it. They made some helpful suggestions at the margins, which we have adopted and they are embodied in the government amendments before the chamber today. But the request, on behalf of the native title claimant groups, that the problem presented by the McGlade decision be fixed, came as early as the first meeting Senator Scullion and I had with Mr Kelly in early February of this year.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:27</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATERS</name>
    <name.id>192970</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>So, when the Prime Minister returned to Australia after his meeting with Mr Adani in April 2017, did the Prime Minister urge you to push this bill through the parliament?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:27</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The bill was introduced into the House of Representatives on 15 February, and I had already announced that, because of the urging of the native title groups, we were urging the parliament to deal with the matter urgently. Now, the parliament, obviously, has not dealt with the matter urgently because four months have now elapsed and we are still debating it. Nevertheless, if you are seeking to establish some kind of cause-and-effect link between the Prime Minister's discussions with Mr Adani in India and the bill, you are completely wrong, Senator Waters. The government determined upon this course in response to the request of the traditional owners within days of the McGlade decision being delivered by the Federal Court in the first week of February.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:28</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATERS</name>
    <name.id>192970</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>So what was the date of the first communication that the Prime Minister or any representative of your government had with Mr Adani or a representative of the Adani groups following the McGlade decision?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:28</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I am not in a position to tell you, because I do not know.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:28</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATERS</name>
    <name.id>192970</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, could you find out please; this is the committee stage of the bill.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:28</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I will not, because your questions are irrelevant to the bill. This is the committee stage of the bill. You are at liberty to make these broader political points in the second reading debate. I imagine you probably did so, but if you have any questions about the bill and in particular the government amendments that we are now discussing, please ask them.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:29</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATERS</name>
    <name.id>192970</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, this bill is being rushed through to save Adani's hide, and the Prime Minister went to India and promised that he would fix native title issues. My question is completely apposite to the whole purpose and reason for this bill. I want to know who first instigated the need for this rushed response, which tramples on native title rights, and whether it was Adani himself or one of his representatives.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:29</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>As you know, it is factually false to say that it has been rushed, this having now been in the parliament for four months. But, to answer your question, so far as I am aware, the first approach came from the National Native Title Council through Mr Kelly. That is the first approach that I am aware of. I am also aware of the Premier of Queensland, Ms Palaszczuk's, letter to the Prime Minister asking that the problem be dealt with urgently, which I think, if my memory serves me correct, was by a letter dated 6 February.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:30</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McCARTHY</name>
    <name.id>122087</name.id>
    <electorate>Northern Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, you said this morning that stakeholders have raised concerns about the potential that section 31 agreements could be challenged. Can you explain to the Senate why section 31 is of concern and why you have raised that this morning?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:30</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Well, I have not actually raised that. This is what I said about section 31, Senator McCarthy—and let me read it to you again:</para>
<quote><para class="block">One further matter raised by the committee which I want to comment on is the status of what are known as section 31 agreements under the Native Title Act following the McGlade decision. Section 31 agreements are another way that agreements can be made under the act through the right to negotiate procedure. While the McGlade decision did not involve these types of agreements, stakeholders have raised concerns about the potential that these agreements could be challenged. However, as agreements made under the right to negotiate procedure have different requirements to ILUAs, the government will consider these matters further and will consider the ramification of McGlade on the right to negotiate procedure more closely with stakeholders before making amendments to the law.</para></quote>
<para>That is what I said. So, Senator McCarthy, far from saying what you have attributed to me, I actually said the opposite: that the right to negotiate issue under section 31 are not the subject of this bill but will be the subject of consideration when the government reviews in a more holistic way the Native Title Act, as we have foreshadowed we will do.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:32</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McCARTHY</name>
    <name.id>122087</name.id>
    <electorate>Northern Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>So, in terms of section 31 in relation to this bill, is there any reason that you have been given as to why it should not be included in any of these amendments?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:32</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Yes; because it is not necessary to reverse legislatively the effect of the McGlade decision and the only purpose of the bill is to do so.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:32</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McCARTHY</name>
    <name.id>122087</name.id>
    <electorate>Northern Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, are you then going to embark on an investigation as to the impact of section 31 not being a part of these amendments?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:32</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>No. What we are doing is we are legislatively reversing the McGlade decision, and that is all we are doing. In the course of debate on this bill, other issues have been raised which go way beyond its scope—one of them being the right to negotiate provisions of the act. And, as I have said, that is not part of this bill, because it is not necessary to its purpose. But there is a view—certainly a view that was expressed to Senator Scullion and me by the native title representative groups at our meeting on 27 April—that a broader, more comprehensive review of the act was desirable. The government accepts that point of view. That will involve many issues, including the section 31 issue. That is the work of another day, but it is not part of this bill.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:33</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McCARTHY</name>
    <name.id>122087</name.id>
    <electorate>Northern Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Why is the rectification of the ILUAs considered urgent but rectification of right to negotiate agreements not?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:33</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I think it is fair to say that the McGlade decision changed the playing field and put at legal risk ILUAs in which native title claimants and, indeed, all parties to the ILUAs have proceeded on the basis that they were on a sound legal footing. As a result of McGlade, some of them were put at risk for reasons that you understand. Therefore, the government's immediate focus, urged by, in particular, the native title claimants, was to restore certainty following the McGlade decision. That is the narrow, surgical focus of this bill. A broader review of provisions of the Native Title Act may very well be desirable but is the work of another day.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:34</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McCARTHY</name>
    <name.id>122087</name.id>
    <electorate>Northern Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Just to clarify, then, Minister: you are saying that the ILUAs are impacted by McGlade but section 31 is not?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:34</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Essentially, yes. A lot of people have made remarks in this debate which are, frankly, irrelevant to the McGlade decision, whether out of an imperfect understanding of the way the act works or for the sake of making mischief, or for whatever reason. But the narrow focus of this bill is the McGlade decision. And that does not require reform of section 31.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:35</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SIEWERT</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>While I am not satisfied with the answer over the 126, I think we have gone as far as we can go on that one. But in terms of the ILUAs that extinguished native title—and I understand that you know how many there are—do you have a list of those that we could be provided with?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:35</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>No.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:36</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SIEWERT</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I understand that you know there is one in Queensland and there are, obviously, the ones in Western Australia—although they are not among the 126. But I understand there are others—up to 10—from your list. How come you do not have that list if you can tell precisely how many there are?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:36</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Because I am here to explain the terms of the government's amendments to the bill to you and to debate your amendments in the committee stage.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:36</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SIEWERT</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>In order for us to make decisions in this place, questions are to understand the ramifications of the amendments and of the changes to the bill. I thought extinguishment of native title was a pretty important issue. Clearly it is, because you have outlined that there are, as I understand it, 12. You know that bit of information. Surely, you know which ones are affected.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:37</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>As I have pointed out before, the Commonwealth is not party to these ILUAs. The Native Title Act—you know this, Senator—provides a system of registration. But the Commonwealth is not a party to these agreements. In relation to these broader matters about which you ask, we had a Senate committee. Perhaps you explored the matter at that stage. But if you have any questions to ask me about the legal meaning and effect of particular government amendments, then please ask them.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:38</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SIEWERT</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I understand what you are saying. You actually are able to provide a list of those that were executed where—the list is here now—there was agreement over native title. So you do have that list. You are being selective in what lists you ask for information on. I would have thought that was a pretty important issue. As I said, you know how many there are. Why aren't you able to provide that?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:38</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I do not, as a matter of fact. You asked about how many ILUAs there were, and I was able to tell you, because the tribunal has, by its own inspection of the register, arrived at that number—that is, 126. You asked me how many were pending; you asked me how many were affected. That information is relevant to the process by which the government approaches this legislation. But, now, you are asking me about the content of particular ILUAs. I am not in a position to tell you that. It is not something that I know—the Commonwealth not being a party to the ILUAs. And it is not germane, frankly, to the bill.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:39</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATERS</name>
    <name.id>192970</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, this bill would seek to retrospectively invalidate an ILUA that does not have unanimous support but rather makes majority support sufficient for it to be a registerable ILUA. I put to you earlier the facts put by the Wangan and Jagalingou traditional owners whereby they say people who are not even part of their clan group were bused into a meeting at which a vote was then taken on the ILUA that this bill would now seek to validate. You said you had not even heard of those claims and they were simply assertions. Are you calling the traditional owners liars?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:40</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator, you have made an assertion. I have absolutely no reason to believe and no basis to know whether that assertion is true or false. I do not know where you get your facts from. I am merely saying that I have no reason to believe the assertion that you make is accurate. The other point I would make to you, Senator Waters, and you as a lawyer should know this, is that this particular ILUA is currently the subject of pending proceedings in the Federal Court. Whether or not the assertion you make is one of the issues in those Federal Court proceedings, I am not aware of; but, for all I know, it could be. Therefore, this being before the court at the moment, it is not appropriate in any event for me to comment.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:41</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATERS</name>
    <name.id>192970</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, I can table the press release from the Wangan and Jagalingou people—a number of them, in fact—if you require. You are simply not engaging with their facts and you are dismissing them as assertions, which is highly insulting to them and, frankly, an abrogation of your own duty in trying to spruik this bill. I hope you are seeking some useful advice that can actually answer some of the questions that we are asking.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:41</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I can confirm that the assertions that you are repeating in this chamber are matters that are in issue in the Federal Court proceedings at the moment—I am so advised. That, Senator, is why these matters are dealt with by courts, not by legislative chambers. What we are doing here is dealing with a bill. I understand that certain individuals are challenging an ILUA in the Federal Court, and we will leave the determination of that issue to the branch of government that deals with disputes between citizens—that is, the court.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:42</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATERS</name>
    <name.id>192970</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister. let's hope that the court is more respectful of the assertions and facts put by the traditional owners than you have been today in dismissing them either as irrelevant or as simply assertions that you have not bothered to inform yourself about, which I am quite shocked and disappointed by. On that matter, you are correct that it is before the Federal Court. I understand the hearing date is March of next year and that there are several grounds to that case, which Senator Dodson referred to earlier in his initial contribution as well. The Prime Minister promised Mr Adani that he would fix the native tile issue. This bill is seeking to fix a small aspect, but is it not the case that there are multiple prongs in that litigation before the Federal Court by the W&J mob and that even if this bill does succeed, thanks to Labor rolling over and trashing Indigenous rights with this government's bill, that in fact the issue will not be fixed and that there will still be many other grounds before the court such that a registered ILUA could not be completed any time before March? Is the Prime Minister now going to tell Mr Adani that in fact he has not been able to 'fix' native title issues at all?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:43</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator, you are requesting me to comment on matters before the court and you know perfectly well that that is not the proper thing for me to do and therefore not a proper question for you to ask. I might point out, Senator, that you seem to be confusing the authorisation of an ILUA with the execution of an ILUA. This bill deals with the execution of an ILUA, not the authorisation of it.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:44</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SIEWERT</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I want to make another attempt at understanding the government's logic with respect to the issue of extinguishment. During the Senate inquiry, we received a number of submissions that raised concerns about ILUAs that were agreed by the majority, not all the named applicants, as per the McGlade decision. Instead of this blanket approach to agreeing to all of the registered ILUAs, a number proposed that there should be a process to review them to make sure people are happy with those agreements. To my mind, this is germane to the discussion we are having, because they are proposing an alternative approach. I know for a fact that in the South West WA the extinguishment of native title is one of the issues for the people who are opposing the ILUAs in the South West. They are concerned that they have to give up extinguishment over, admittedly, rather smaller areas of land, but that is one of their key concerns. To my mind, if not to yours, this is an important issue, because these may be the agreements that people would particularly like to have a look at. The fact that they are included here means it was not a consensus decision to extinguish native title. Some people see that as a threshold—I am not saying everybody, but some people do. That is why I do not understand, when you actually have pulled out the information, you cannot give us a list. We know there is one in Queensland, which has to do with transport corridor, as I understand it, but what are the others? That is why it is important. This goes to the heart of what many people are concerned about.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:46</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Siewert, I can tell you that the South West Land and Sea Council was one of the rep bodies that was represented at the consultation that I undertook in Melbourne on 27 April. The South West Land and Sea Council strongly supports this bill and its urgent passage through the parliament.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:46</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SIEWERT</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Brandis, you know very well that there are disputes over that, and I know where the South West Land and Sea Council stand. I have a lot of sympathy for their argument. In fact at the inquiry, they raised concerns that it did not go far enough for them. They have to go through that application process, which you have just articulated, again. Yes, they agree, but they want it to go further. I know they have some issues there, but they do want to see the passage of the bill. I also know very strongly, because I have spoken to people, and they are the groups of claimants who took the court case in the first place.</para>
<para>To answer my question by simply quoting the South West Land and Sea Council does not answer my question at all. You know very well we are here right now is because of the group of people who took the action in the Supreme Court in the first place, and that is now the McGlade decision. You know very well that there is a group of people who do not agree with where we are at in the South West of WA. I am not seeking to prosecute that argument here, but I am using it as a clear example of claimants' concerns about the extinguishment of native title. It is one of the key issues that has been raised with me as the reason they do not agree. As I said, I am not seeking to prosecute that discussion here—it is not my place to do so. I am raising it as an example of why extinguishment of native title is a really important issue, when there has not been a consensus decision on it.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:48</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Siewert, I think you are making debating points rather than asking me questions now. We asked for the views of the South West Land and Sea Council, and they have said they support the bill and they want the parliament to pass it. There may be particular disputes among the South West Land and Sea Council, but I am not aware of them. That may very well be the case, but it is not relevant. The only question before the chamber at the moment is whether this bill should be passed, and the representative body of those people has asked the government to introduce this bill—we have done so—and the parliament to deal with it urgently. Although four months have now elapsed since it was first introduced, we are trying to do what they are asking us to do. There may be individual members of that community who have a different view. We are not asking for unanimity, but there is consensus.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:49</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SIEWERT</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>There is not consensus. You have a very strange understanding of 'consensus'. You are going with the majority view; you are not going with consensus. This is at the heart of the discussion that we are having. You are swapping from a consensus view that is currently in the Native Title Act to a majority view. It is no wonder we are at odds; you do not even understand the term 'consensus' by the sound of it. There is not consensus. The south-west claimants are not the only ones who do not consent to this bill. But let's go back to the question that I asked: why do you not know—when this is one of the key issues at the heart of people's concerns—about the extinguishment of native title. I think there are many people who want to know which ILUAs extinguished native title. Which ones are on this list that did not have all—let's abandon the term 'consensus' and go to 'all'—named applicants sign the agreement?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:51</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Whether or not native title is extinguished—as I said about an hour ago—is one of the particulars on the register. So, if you have an inquiry about whether or not a particular ILUA extinguishes native title, I invite you to inspect the register. It is not for me to do your research for you.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:51</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SIEWERT</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>This is getting to the point of rudeness. We have already established that you cannot interrogate that list to find out that sort of information. The Native Title Tribunal has done it. They know that up to 12 have extinguished it. So are you saying that you never bothered to inquire? Your department never bothered to inquire where those were? Is that what you and the department are saying? You never bothered to inquire about which agreements extinguished native title?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:52</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Whether native title is extinguished—as I said—is a matter that appears on the face of the register. If you want to make an inquiry about a particular ILUA, then inspect the register. But that is not the business before the chamber today. The business before the chamber today is to deal with the bill, and that is what we are doing.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:52</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SIEWERT</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>It is very clear that you do not care that those ILUAs extinguished native title. Or is it that you do not understand the significance of the issue?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:53</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I think we are getting a very long way away from discussing the terms of the bill. The fact is that every native title representative group in the country—and that is a consensus; there is a unanimity among the native title representative groups—wants this bill passed, and they want it passed now.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:53</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATERS</name>
    <name.id>192970</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I just have a few additional questions harkening back to some earlier questions that sadly were not really answered. In the time between the McGlade decision on 2 February and the introduction of this bill on 15 February, did the Prime Minister talk to Mr Adani or any representative of the Adani companies?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:53</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Not that I am aware. I have no reason to believe that he did.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:53</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATERS</name>
    <name.id>192970</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Can I ask you to check, because you have claimed a lack of awareness about a number of things and that is not actually determinative of the question. Can I ask that you ask your officials to ascertain whether or not the Prime Minister did have contact with Mr Adani in that time. I am not interested in your state of mind about it; I am interested in whether it factually happened or not.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:54</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>No, I will not be doing that, because it is irrelevant to the bill. What I can tell you as the minister with the carriage of this bill is that the people with whom I have had contact—the National Native Title Council and individual native title representative groups—are urging the Senate not to delay or filibuster this debate but to get the bill passed and they are doing so unanimously—the Queensland government and other stakeholders. As the minister responsible for the carriage of the bill, I can assure you I have had no communication with Adani whatsoever.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:55</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATERS</name>
    <name.id>192970</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>You have said you are not aware whether the Prime Minister spoke to Mr Adani or a representative and that you will not check. Are you going to stand by that?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:55</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>You selectively misquote what I said, so let me put it on the record again. Next time you quote, I ask you to do me and the Senate the courtesy of honesty. What I said was I am not aware whether the Prime Minister spoke to Mr Adani and I have no reason to believe that he did. That is the part that you left out. I have no reason to believe that he did.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:55</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATERS</name>
    <name.id>192970</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I am just trying to establish whether he did or not. Whether you believed that he did or not is completely irrelevant, but it seems that, unfortunately, as the Minister representing the Prime Minister, you are not able to answer a fundamental question, so I will move on to my last set of questions—which you will probably not answer either, but I will ask them anyway. Of those eight ILUAs that were pending registration which this bill seeks to validate despite the fact that they may not have unanimous support by the registered native title claimants, at least two of the mining companies involved are Fortescue and Rio Tinto. Both companies have donated to the Liberal Party. What discussions, if any, were had between either you or the Prime Minister and representatives from Fortescue and Rio about this bill?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:56</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I had no discussions with Rio about this bill—none at all. As to Fortescue, I had a meeting with Mr Andrew Forrest about two or three months ago in my office in which he came to see me about human slavery and to give me a briefing about human slavery, a cause about which I would have hoped you would care but plainly do not. During the course of my meeting with Mr Forrest I have no recollection of any discussion of anything other than the question of human slavery. I put that on the record for the sake of completeness because I have had one meeting with Mr Forrest during the time in which this bill has been before the parliament. We did not discuss the bill; we discussed human slavery.</para>
<para>In relation to whether the Prime Minister has discussed this with representatives of either of those companies or anyone else, I am not in a position to tell you.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:58</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATERS</name>
    <name.id>192970</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, why are you not in a position to tell me?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:58</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Because I do not know and, as I said in answer to your earlier question, I have no reason to believe that he did.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:58</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATERS</name>
    <name.id>192970</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, will you now ask and find out for me?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:58</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>No, because that is not what this process is for. This process is to discuss the terms of the bill. You are coming very close to abusing the process of the committee stage of the debate, but we are in the hands of the Acting Deputy Chairman.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:58</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATERS</name>
    <name.id>192970</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>This bill is being hurried through to patch up Adani's massive coalmine and, potentially, also to patch up Fortescue's and Rio's ILUAs, and you are telling me it is not relevant? I think that is patently ridiculous and I am sure anybody bothering to listen will be outraged at the government refusing to disclose what is potentially the key purpose behind this bill—the key motivation. Of course, it is very interesting to note that many of those companies have donated to your side of politics—probably also to the opposition as well—so I find your refusal to engage an abuse of process.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The TEMPORARY CHAIR</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>If there are no further questions, the question is that items (4), (6), and (11) of schedule 1 stand as printed.</para>
<para>Question negatived.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:59</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move government amendment (3) on sheet ZA429 and government amendment on sheet ZA431 together.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:00</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SIEWERT</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Are you seeking to move government amendment (3), the technical amendment, Senator Brandis?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:00</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Yes, that is correct, together with the validating agreements amendment on sheet ZA431.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SIEWERT</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>We are voting differently on those two amendments.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:00</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Okay.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:00</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SIEWERT</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>This one is still dealing with the amendments that are part of the sheets that we all agreed to, I understand. Would it not be better to then move onto the next one separately?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:00</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Whatever is the most efficient.</para>
<para>The TEMPORARY CHAIR: We will move them separately, Senator Brandis.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:00</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move government amendment (3) on sheet ZA429.</para>
<para>The TEMPORARY CHAIR: Do you mean 249?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:00</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>No, 429. In other words, this one.</para>
<para>The TEMPORARY CHAIR: Yes. That is 249. I think you said '429'.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:01</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Yes. There is a disconformity between the sheet and the running sheet.</para>
<para>The TEMPORARY CHAIR: I can see that now.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:01I move government amendment (3) on sheet ZA429.</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>(</para>
<quote><para class="block">Native Title Amendment (Indigenous Land Use Agreements) Bill 2017</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"><inline font-style="italic">(Government)</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) Schedule 1, item 9, page 5 (line 26), after "native", insert "title".</para></quote>
<para>That merely corrects a typographical error in item 9 of the schedule, the omission of the word 'Title' so that it would read 'Native Title' as it was plainly intended to read.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:02</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move government amendment on sheet ZA431.</para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Schedule 1, item 9, page 5 (after line 26), after subitem (1), insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (1A) This item also applies if:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (a) paragraphs (1)(a) and (b) apply to an agreement; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (b) the agreement was not an indigenous land use agreement (within the meaning of that section) only because:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">      (i) if there was only one registered native title claimant in relation to land or waters in the area—none of the persons who comprised that registered native title claimant was a party to the agreement; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">      (ii) if there was more than one registered native title claimant in relation to land or waters in the area—for any registered native title claimant, none of the persons who comprised that registered native title claimant was a party to the agreement; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (c) the agreement was registered on the Register of Indigenous Land Use Agreements on or before 2 February 2017.</para></quote>
<para>Since the bill's introduction, the Cape York Land Council has advised the government of a small number of ILUAs that were made and registered when none of the members of the registered native title claimant were a party to the ILUA. These agreements are small in number and are the result of circumstances where it may not have been possible or indeed appropriate to obtain the signatures of the members of the registered native title claimant. I have been advised that this practice was confined to very limited situations such as where all members of the registered native title claimant were deceased or where they were not the right people to be party to agreements over a certain area of land in the claim—that is to say, it was not appropriate for them to speak for that part of the country.</para>
<para>One of these agreements, the Western Cape Communities Co-Existence Agreement, was entered into back in 2001 at a time when practice in relation to the negotiation and registration of ILUAs was developing. This agreement has provided and continues to provide considerable benefits to the Indigenous people of Cape York. It would be a significant detriment to these people were this agreement to be invalidated. All of these agreements were accepted for registration by the National Native Title Tribunal and were subject to the usual objections process following lodgement for registration.</para>
<para>The government therefore believes it is important to give effect to requests from the Cape York Land Council to validate these ILUAs. The bill now includes an additional round for application of the retrospective validation provisions where an agreement had been registered on or before 2 February 2017 but no members of the registered native title claimant were party. The measure is confined to retrospectively validating only those agreements that have been already registered and therefore would have been through the rigorous authorisation and objection processes set out by the act. The bill will not validate agreements without signatures where the agreement is under negotiation or not yet registered, and should not be taken to indicate the way in which agreements will be made in the future.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:04</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DODSON</name>
    <name.id>SR5</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I made my comments fairly clear, I think, in earlier comments. I just note that the Cape York agreements are very much according to customary laws that pertain to the people involved here. Such matters are vital to the nature of native title itself. Obviously, the law under the Western system has required these amendments that are to be made necessary in order to validate those agreements that were done in good faith and under customary law arrangements, as I understand it.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:05</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SIEWERT</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I have a few questions on this. How many agreements are involved in the need for this amendment?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:05</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I am advised that there are nine.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:05</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SIEWERT</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>When was the first one made, and over what period of time have these nine agreements be made?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:05</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The earliest date, I am advised, is 2001. I am advised that my officials believe there are still some among those nine pending registration. I am sorry; I should clarify—because the bill only validates registered agreements, there are nine registered agreements.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:06</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SIEWERT</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Are there some that are pending as well that are not included? I understand that point.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:07</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I am advised that, if there are any pending agreements that are not signed, this amendment will not validate them.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:07</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SIEWERT</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I appreciate that you answered the first bit of my question about the date of the period. When was the last registered—2001 to when?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:07</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I am afraid I do not have that information.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:07</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SIEWERT</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Can I confirm that these nine are involved because all the named applicants are deceased?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:07</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>No, that is not right. I am advised that, in all cases, it was for cultural reasons.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:07</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SIEWERT</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Were there any where all the named applicants were deceased?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:07</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My officials think that there may be one, but we will check that.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:08</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator IAN MACDONALD</name>
    <name.id>YW4</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Could I ask the minister how many of these ILUAs that are at risk or that will be regularised by this bill are in my state of Queensland? Attorney, you would appreciate me asking that, as I, like you, am a Queensland representative in this place.</para>
<para>I should just mention that I had the pleasure of meeting with a large number of Indigenous people just last week—I forget when it was; Tuesday, I think—when the Adani corporation came to Townsville and made the official announcement that Townsville would be the headquarters of the Adani project. Of course, that was great news for Townsville, which is currently suffering the highest unemployment, I regret to say, around the country—more than 11 per cent. Youth unemployment is unreasonably and unconscionably high.</para>
<para>This announcement by Adani of anywhere up to 600 new jobs—as I understood them—being created just in the headquarters in Townsville was great news for Townsville. I have to say that I do not always agree with the Labor Mayor of Townsville, but the Labor Mayor of Townsville was totally involved in the announcement and very pleased. The Queensland government was there, represented by the Premier of Queensland—of all people—and some of her ministers, all lauding Adani for establishing their headquarters in Townsville and going ahead with this project that will mean so much to all Queenslanders, particularly Indigenous people. I had the pleasure, at a little function after the announcement, of sitting with a group of Indigenous people. Some of them lawyers—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Siewert</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>And the question is?</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator IAN MACDONALD</name>
    <name.id>YW4</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I have raised the question. I thought, Senator Siewert, that you had asked a series of question, most of which you had already asked at the committee hearing that you attended, so you are simply re-asking the same questions; for what purpose, I do not know. I thought I heard you make—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The TEMPORARY CHAIR</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Macdonald, please address your comments to the chair.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator IAN MACDONALD</name>
    <name.id>YW4</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you. Yes, quite right, Chair. I thought I heard Senator Siewert make quite lengthy statements earlier in this debate; yet, it seems to be, as always, that there is one rule for the Greens, one rule for Senator Siewert and a different rule for everybody else. I would have thought it was important for this debate for senators to understand that Indigenous people are totally behind this amendment and, as an aside might I say, behind the Adani project. But this is not about Adani; this is about a wider thing. Hence, my question to the minister about how many of these Indigenous Land Use Agreements are at risk in Queensland because, Attorney, as I know you know—but I will repeat for other senators who do not—Indigenous people in the area supported this Adani proposal very strongly, almost unanimously. They are very keen to see this particular piece of legislation passed. In fact, last week in Townsville the National Native Title Council met. Whilst I was not party to the meeting, I understand from talking to people that they are all very, very keen. There were a lot of representatives and a lot of Indigenous lawyers there, and they were all saying to me: 'When are you going to get this through? Because we need this. We need this for our people.' They were very keen and very appreciative to the Attorney for acting so quickly. I think the McGlade decision was on 2 February. I know the Attorney introduced this bill on 15 February and it has taken us to the middle of June—</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Four months.</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator IAN MACDONALD</name>
    <name.id>YW4</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>four months, to get here. If it was something that people were wildly opposed to, if Indigenous people were widely opposed to it, one could understand why it might take four months to get to this particular state of being, but I understand that the Labor Party and certainly the Labor Party in Queensland—Premier Palaszczuk and her ministers—are all totally in support of this amendment and always have been. Clearly, if the Labor Party, the coalition and One Nation are so much in favour of this, it amazes me that it has taken us four months to get to this stage where we are almost ready to pass a piece of legislation that has all but the unanimous support of this chamber. People can make their own opinions on the motives of those who have delayed it until this time. I simply come back to my question: Attorney, it is very important for Queensland to know how many of these Indigenous Land Use Agreements will be regularised or confirmed—or whatever the terminology is—when, as appears likely, this amendment is passed.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:14</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I should, of course, acknowledge your very, very longstanding role in this chamber as an absolute champion for the people of North Queensland and, in particular, their economic future. So there are 126 registered ILUAs which were affected by the McGlade decision. Of those 126, 109 are in Queensland.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:15</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SIEWERT</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I want to continue with the questions that I was asking earlier. The ILUA you think is—</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:15</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I have more information for you about that. I can confirm that there is one and that that one is the Western Cape ILUA.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:15</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SIEWERT</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Does this amendment just cover Cape York ILUAs or are there others? If so, could you tell us the regions?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:15</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The amendment has general application, but the only ILUAs we understand to be affected by it are Cape York ILUAs.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:16</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SIEWERT</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>So there is one agreement where all the named applicants were deceased and eight where the agreement had no named applicants—is that correct?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:16</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>In relation to the Western Cape one, there was a single applicant who died, and the other eight were not signed by anyone at the time of their registration.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:16</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SIEWERT</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I understand you cannot tell me when the last one was signed.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:16</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My officials just do not have that information here.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:16</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SIEWERT</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The point at the heart of this amendment, as I understand it, is that you have nine agreements that relate to Cape York—the one claim—and, due to the process by which Cape York deals with native title, they were not signed by any of the named applicants. I am trying to work out the period during which this occurred because I have some questions as to the process that occurred.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:17</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I am advised that the way I have described it was the way in which, by custom, this was done in Cape York. I am at pains to make this point: this particular amendment was requested specifically by the Cape York Land Council. The government accepted the Cape York Land Council's request that, in order to protect the interests of the people whom they represent, the bill be amended in this way, which is why we have included it.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:18</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SIEWERT</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I do understand the rationale and I have some sympathy for the way that Cape York has addressed and does address native title decision-making and agreement-making. We went through some of that during the inquiry. What we did not do during the inquiry was go through these issues, because they were not raised at the time by the Cape York institute when we were discussing the amendments. If you read their submission to the inquiry, they actually took quite a different approach. Through that original submission, they did not agree to this legislation. In fact, they are one of the organisations, if I remember the submission correctly, who were saying that you needed to look more specifically at some of the agreements as to whether they should be revisited or not. As I said, I have some sympathy for the way they make decisions and the approach they have taken. However, the point here is that, with no named applicants, they clearly do not even meet the majority approach under Bygrave. In fact, at least one of these agreements was made way before Bygrave.</para>
<para>So before that decision was taken that the majority could sign on—that is what the Bygrave decision was, that you could go with the majority—at least one, if not more, of these agreements were made. They were made way before that interpretation was put into effect—that is my understanding of the situation. How, with all the goodwill in terms of the way that Cape York run their processes, could the register be clearly inconsistent with the act? That has been happening for a significant period of time. How did that occur? Was this flagged at the time? I understand that this relates to some time ago; I am not having a go at the government. I want to know how this process could have occurred when, as I understand it, there was not even an interpretation at the time that no named applicants could sign.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:20</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I am advised that the answer is they were signed by representatives of the members of the clan group as their agents. That is the answer to your question.</para>
<para>You seem to me to be raising a question of the legal validity of some of these ILUAs. I cannot speak to that, but if there were to be such a question then that is a matter for the courts.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:21</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SIEWERT</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Has that issue been considered for these ILUAs, since there were no named applicants?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:21</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The ILUAs were authorised and registered through the appropriate registration process. I cannot speak to the formal requirements of the National Native Title Tribunal in accepting ILUAs for registration, but they were formally registered. The Cape York Land Council, which exists to protect the interests of members of claimant groups, have asked that this amendment that be included in the bill in order to protect their interests. You are asking me about historical processes about which I am not in a position to advise you.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:22</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SIEWERT</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The register at the time must have used a process where there were no named applicants. I understand the issues that have been raised, but the fact is that it was not consistent with the law. How can we be confident that none of these other ILUAs are in the same situation, where maybe the registrar made up their own rules about what they would or would not accept?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:22</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>As I said a moment ago, you are asking me about historical events and processes about which I am not in a position to speak. But I am advised that the manner in which this was done was that representatives or agents, acting on behalf of members of the claimant group, caused the registration to be effected and that was accepted by the tribunal. It is not right to say that there were no named applicants. I am advised that there were, but the signatories on their behalf were representatives signing on their behalf. That was accepted by the registrar as being sufficient compliance with the provisions of the act.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:23</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator IAN MACDONALD</name>
    <name.id>YW4</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Attorney, can I just clarify this? I think you have said it twice, but from the way this debate is proceeding I perhaps am not sure of my hearing. Is it a fact that the Cape York Land Council, who I know to be to be made up of very responsible and intelligent people, have looked into this very carefully—looked into it with the best interests of not only clan groups from Cape York but all those affected by native title legislation? They have looked into this very carefully. They have asked for this particular amendment—I am sure you have said that three times already. The debate is being dragged out for reasons that I do not understand and there seems to be questioning of the ability or the authority of the Cape York Land Council to deal with this amendment and to make the request or to consult with you on the amendment.</para>
<para>What might have happened in years gone by is, I am sure, interesting for the history books. I am sure if it were relevant to this amendment then those at the Cape York Land Council and, indeed, those at the Native Title Council would have all fully considered this. They obviously do not think this interesting sojourn into past history is of any relevance to matters today, to matters relating to this bill, and to the interests of Indigenous people right around Australia, because I am sure if they thought these were relevant, if they thought it were necessary for this parliament to go into past history, then they would have raised that with you. I am assuming that they have not, but I seek your confirmation again that this is an amendment that the Cape York Land Council—intelligent, capable people themselves—have asked for and are desirous of seeing passed through this parliament at the earliest possible time.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:26</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Yes, Senator, that is correct. I met with the representatives of the Cape York Land Council on 27 April. That was part of the non-consultation that has been alleged. They requested this amendment of me. An amendment to meet their wishes was prepared and shared with them for careful study. That was another aspect of the non-consultation that was said to have occurred or the consultation that was said never to have occurred, and the Cape York Land Council have asked, as part of the failure to consult them, the government to amend the bill in this way, and the government has agreed, which is why this government amendment is being moved. This is part of the absence of the consensus that has been pointed to by the Greens. So every native title council in Australia was consulted and every single one has agreed to this bill, and, particularly in relation to the Cape York Land Council who particularly asked for this very amendment to protect the interests of their people, this is the amendment they asked for that I am moving.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:27</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SIEWERT</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Brandis, perhaps you could share with the chamber the process that you went through to take this to the reps bodies, because I and a number of other senators have received a letter from the NLC, the Northern Land Council, expressing their concerns. Ultimately, I do understand that you agreed to amend the original amendment that you proposed here, but I think it is clear, certainly from the correspondence that I received, that there was concern from other representative bodies about this approach. I will accept that they ultimately agreed—I understand, with some reluctance—to the amendments that you subsequently made to the original amendment.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:28</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator, rather than prolong the debate, I will merely refer you to my remarks last night in winding up the second reading debate in which I did that very thing and explained at length the consultations that occurred. You say 'reluctance' on the part of the Northern Land Council. The fact is that the Northern Land Council, like every other land council in the country, has asked for the parliament to pass this bill in this form and to do it urgently.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:28</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SIEWERT</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I notice very clearly that you did not answer the question that I just asked, which was for you to explain the NLC's original concern. I would like to go back to the question that I asked and the points that I raised earlier. I understand the Cape York decision-making process. They explained it, and I have a lot of sympathy for it. But the fact is that it does not meet the requirements of the legislation at the time. How many of these agreements—not just Cape York but others—had representatives sign onto them as part of the majority?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:29</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I am only aware of the issue arising in relation to Cape York.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:29</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SIEWERT</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I do not seek to prolong this. I want to get these answers; and I am not going to get these answers. It is clear that these agreements, for all the goodwill in the world, did not meet the provisions of the Native Title Act. That is why you are having to validate them in this way. A 'representative of the named applicant'? How many other times has a 'representative of the named applicant' signed on?</para>
<para>I am not having a go at Cape York about this; I am having a go at the fact that these were registered in the first place. We cannot be confident that there was not some other interpretation used for some of the other agreements that have been registered. It is not just about Cape York; it is about all of them and in what other circumstances this has occurred. That is why people are concerned. That is why we remain concerned about this blanket agreement supporting all these ILUAs. These were not consistent with the law. I acknowledge that there was probably goodwill on most of them, but we do not know. That is why we had a lot of sympathy and support for the submissions to the inquiry that said that we should be looking at these agreements in more detail rather than just signing them all off. Minister, I note that the piece of paper that you tabled—and thank you—says at the end:</para>
<quote><para class="block">This information was provided in good faith by the National Native Title Tribunal and should be treated as sensitive. A more extensive review of the ILUA register and each ILUA would need to be conducted to confirm these figures.</para></quote>
<para>So, in other words, you cannot confirm that it is just 126. You cannot give me the list of those that extinguish native title.</para>
<para>We have at least nine agreements that we know that no registered claimants signed on to. Some had representatives sign on and there was one where the claimant, as I understand it, was deceased. That is why there are still so many questions over what you say is a really simple piece of legislation. It is not. That is why the Greens cannot support this agreement, despite having sympathy for the approach that the Cape York council takes in terms of one claim having representatives from the regions involved as named applicants and then getting specific traditional owners to sign off on some agreements. I understand that. There are too many open questions about how these were registered in the first place. They were not consistent with the law—however you want to spin it. That is why we cannot sign on to this amendment.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:33</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Siewert, I note the point you make, and let me just respond to two respects. First of all, the list of 126 is the advice to the government of the Native Title Tribunal. They have included that reservation out of abundant caution, but that is their advice to the government of the number of ILUAs—126. That is the best advice and evidence we have.</para>
<para>Secondly, in relation to the question you raise about the registration of the Cape York ILUAs, the Native Title Act, as I am sure you know, provides for a procedure whereby an agreement will be registered if it appears to meet the formal requirements of the act, and that is a matter for the registrar. The registrar, plainly, by accepting these agreements, formed the view that they met the formal requirements of the act. That has never been challenged, so far as I am aware, in any court of law, which is the appropriate forum—not here—for such an argument to be made. In any event, I do not understand you to be suggesting otherwise. The Cape York Land Council, by urging the government to move this amendment, is merely looking after the best interests of the people of Cape York and particularly the native title owners. For that reason, I ask you to now allow the amendment to proceed to a vote.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:34</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SIEWERT</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I have one or maybe two last questions. Senator Brandis, have you ever met with any resource companies to discuss any mining interests in this bill?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:35</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>No, I have not, although I have met Mr Ian Macfarlane and those who advise him from the Queensland Resources Council, who are obviously interested stakeholders. But I have not met any particular mining companies, no.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:35</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SIEWERT</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>You met with the Queensland Resources Council. Did you discuss any specific mining proposals or was it a more general meeting?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:35</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>We discussed aspects of the bill and their application, including the Cape York amendment, as a matter of fact, because the Queensland Resources Council was supportive of the Cape York Land Council's position.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:35</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SIEWERT</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Could you tell us when you met with them, please.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:35</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>This year, Senator. I do not have the actual dates.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:36</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SIEWERT</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Was it after the McGlade decision but before the bill was introduced?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:36</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I think it was after—I would have to check my diary. Certainly, I had meetings with them after the bill was introduced. I also spoke with Mr Macfarlane on the telephone a few times. Whether I had a telephone conversation with him between McGlade on 2 February and when the bill was introduced on 15 February, I do not know. I have no recollection of having done so, but I may have done.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:36</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SIEWERT</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>If you could take that on notice that would be appreciated. What are being referred to as the Cape York amendments were only introduced very recently—subsequent, I understand, to the meeting in Melbourne. You were aware of those issues some time before the first set of amendments were introduced?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:37</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>No, I do not think so, nor do I understand what when I became aware of an issue has to do with the bill. It has got nothing to do with the bill. However, not so far as I can recall. I do not think so, no.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:37</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SIEWERT</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>If you could take on notice providing that information about when you met with them—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Brandis</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I will not be doing that, Senator, because I have told you everything I can tell you about that.</para>
<para>The CHAIR: Minister, if you can wait until Senator Siewert finishes her question I will give you the call. Have you finished, Senator Siewert?</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SIEWERT</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I had not.</para>
<para>The CHAIR: Please continue.</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SIEWERT</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>You can tell us more, Senator Brandis. You can tell us when you actually met with the Queensland Resources Council. Also, you have already said you discussed the Cape York situation. I am trying to work out when you found out about those amendments, because we did not know about those amendments when we had the Senate inquiry. I understand the representative bodies did not know about those amendments until that meeting in April.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:38</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I think I have already answered your question, Senator. To the best of my recollection, this was first raised on 27 April, when I met with the Cape York Land Council.</para>
<para>The CHAIR: The question is that the amendment on sheet ZA431 be agreed to.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:39</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SIEWERT</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—could I have our vote of 'No' recorded, please?</para>
<para>The CHAIR: So recorded.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:39</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SIEWERT</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I move Greens amendments (1), (2) and (5) on sheet 8161 together:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Schedule 1, item 9, page 5 (line 26), at the end of subitem (1), add:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">; and (e) the agreement was registered on the Register of Indigenous Land Use Agreements on or before 2 February 2017.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) Schedule 1, item 9, page 5 (lines 30 to 32), omit “Without limiting subitem (2), if on or before 2 February 2017 the agreement was registered on the Register of Indigenous Land Use Agreements, then the”, substitute “The”.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(5) Schedule 1, item 12, page 7 (lines 13 to 16), omit subitem (1), substitute:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (1) This item applies to an agreement if, if the agreement had been registered on the Register of Indigenous Land Use Agreements on or before 2 February 2017, item 9 would have applied to the agreement except for the application of subitem 9(4).</para></quote>
<para>We also oppose schedule 1 in the following terms:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(3) Schedule 1, item 10, page 6 (lines 11 to 27), to be opposed.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(4) Schedule 1, item 11, page 6 (line 28) to page 7 (line 11), to be opposed.</para></quote>
<para>We are opposed to clause 10, which deals with validating the applications that are currently before the registrar—in other words, where agreements have been discussed, applications have been made and they are before the registrar. The Adani agreement is one of those. The other amendments there relate to the consequences that taking that section out have. Because these are counted as agreements they are also included under clause 9 in the bill, so we are amending that to address that situation. We are also amending clause 12 because it is a different situation for the south-west agreements. That is the basis of these amendments. We think that, if we take out of the process the Adani application and those pending agreements that are clearly not registered and clearly do not have consensus decisions, that would be a more satisfactory approach to dealing with the particular matters.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:41</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The government will be opposing these Greens amendments because their effect would be to confine the bill to registered agreements. Agreements that have been authorised by the entire claim group but not yet registered would be left out if the Greens amendments were to be accepted. The government does not accept that such agreements should be excluded from the bill. The government's approach respects the choices of Australia's traditional owners; the Greens' approach does not. I remind the chamber once again that the bill in the form in which it currently stands, with the government amendments recommended by the Native Title Council and particularly the Cape York amendment, is now the bill that native title owners have asked this parliament to pass.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:42</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DODSON</name>
    <name.id>SR5</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Labor will be opposing these Greens amendments as well. For all the discussion I have heard about consultation with Indigenous peoples, I have no indication that these proposals have gone anywhere near the native title rep bodies. They have been put forward at the last minute in my view. They are beyond the scope of the agreed position that the Senate committee came to. The more important matter around extinguishment that I heard raised is a very important point of policy, but that is for another day. I certainly repudiate the allegation made against Labor that we are simply rolling over and trashing native title rights. We have stood up for native title rights and we will continue to do so. What I have heard in this debate is primarily about Adani and a coalmine, and that is a bit sad.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:43</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SIEWERT</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>With all due respect, Senator Dodson, you know as well as I do that the timing on this is directly related to Adani. There are significant points of conflict around the Adani decision-making process. You heard the same arguments I did through the Senate inquiry, where there was very strong dispute about their decision-making process, specifically related to the Adani mine. I would have loved for this discussion not to be about Adani. In fact, the Native Title Council has raised the issue with the government. It is clearly on the record that it had been asking for some time before the McGlade case came up for this issue to be addressed.</para>
<para>What has pushed the government's buttons is Adani—let's make that clear. I am really regretful that the debate on this has had to centre on Adani, which is clearly the government's agenda. If we take this off, we take some of the heat out of that discussion. By not supporting this amendment gives the government one more way to support the Adani coalmine. Senator Macdonald was in here not long ago saying, 'Oh, they are talking about 600 more jobs in Townsville.' I for one know that we need more jobs—you cannot hold the portfolios I hold without knowing that—but killing the reef is going to kill a lot more jobs, and that is what this project will do. We can address that issue here and not facilitate the development and not go against the wishes of the majority. It is not just a minority of people in this case of Adani—there are really strong claims that this process was manipulated and that it does not have majority support. Take that off the table, and that is what this amendment does, and you take that argument somewhere else. I commend the amendments to the chamber.</para>
<para>The CHAIR: The question is that the amendments as moved by Senator Siewert on sheet 8161 be agreed to.</para>
<para>The CHAIR: The question now is that item 10 of schedule 1 stand as printed.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The committee divided. [11:50]<br />(The Chair—Senator Lines)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>9</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Di Natale, R</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                  <name>Ludlam, S</name>
                  <name>McKim, NJ</name>
                  <name>Rhiannon, L</name>
                  <name>Rice, J</name>
                  <name>Siewert, R (teller)</name>
                  <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>38</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Abetz, E</name>
                  <name>Back, CJ</name>
                  <name>Bernardi, C</name>
                  <name>Birmingham, SJ</name>
                  <name>Brandis, GH</name>
                  <name>Burston, B</name>
                  <name>Bushby, DC</name>
                  <name>Cash, MC</name>
                  <name>Cormann, M</name>
                  <name>Dastyari, S</name>
                  <name>Dodson, P</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D</name>
                  <name>Fifield, MP</name>
                  <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                  <name>Gallagher, KR</name>
                  <name>Georgiou, P</name>
                  <name>Gichuhi, LM</name>
                  <name>Griff, S</name>
                  <name>Hanson, P</name>
                  <name>Hinch, D</name>
                  <name>Hume, J</name>
                  <name>Kakoschke-Moore, S</name>
                  <name>Ketter, CR</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J</name>
                  <name>Macdonald, ID</name>
                  <name>Marshall, GM</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J (teller)</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, B</name>
                  <name>Paterson, J</name>
                  <name>Payne, MA</name>
                  <name>Pratt, LC</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A</name>
                  <name>Sinodinos, A</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G</name>
                  <name>Williams, JR</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names></names>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:55</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SIEWERT</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Can I just indicate that I will not proceed with item 4, because it has, in fact, already been dealt with.</para>
<para>Bill, as amended, agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill reported with amendments; report adopted.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Third Reading</title>
            <page.no>3818</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:56</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill be now read a third time.</para></quote>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [12:00]<br />(The Deputy President—Senator Lines)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>46</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Abetz, E</name>
                  <name>Back, CJ</name>
                  <name>Bernardi, C</name>
                  <name>Birmingham, SJ</name>
                  <name>Brandis, GH</name>
                  <name>Burston, B</name>
                  <name>Bushby, DC</name>
                  <name>Cash, MC</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A</name>
                  <name>Collins, JMA</name>
                  <name>Cormann, M</name>
                  <name>Dodson, P</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D</name>
                  <name>Fifield, MP</name>
                  <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                  <name>Gallagher, KR</name>
                  <name>Georgiou, P</name>
                  <name>Gichuhi, LM</name>
                  <name>Griff, S</name>
                  <name>Hanson, P</name>
                  <name>Hinch, D</name>
                  <name>Hume, J</name>
                  <name>Kakoschke-Moore, S</name>
                  <name>Ketter, CR</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J</name>
                  <name>Lines, S</name>
                  <name>Macdonald, ID</name>
                  <name>Marshall, GM</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, DM</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, B</name>
                  <name>Paterson, J</name>
                  <name>Payne, MA</name>
                  <name>Pratt, LC</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A</name>
                  <name>Seselja, Z</name>
                  <name>Sinodinos, A</name>
                  <name>Smith, D</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, AE</name>
                  <name>Watt, M</name>
                  <name>Williams, JR (teller)</name>
                  <name>Xenophon, N</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>9</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Di Natale, R</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                  <name>Ludlam, S</name>
                  <name>McKim, NJ</name>
                  <name>Rhiannon, L</name>
                  <name>Rice, J</name>
                  <name>Siewert, R (teller)</name>
                  <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names></names>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to.<br />Bill read a third time.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division></subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Social Services Legislation Amendment (Seasonal Worker Incentives for Jobseekers) Bill 2017</title>
          <page.no>3819</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" style="" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" background="" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture">
            <a type="Bill" href="r5837">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Social Services Legislation Amendment (Seasonal Worker Incentives for Jobseekers) Bill 2017</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>3819</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:04</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak on the Social Services Legislation Amendment (Seasonal Worker Incentives for Jobseekers) Bill 2017. The trial that is covered by this bill will give jobseekers an opportunity to gain short-term seasonal work without the risk of losing their Newstart payment or other social security benefits. It is a trial that Labor will support but, for the reasons which I shall outline, Labor will be casting a very critical eye over both the implementation and the outcomes of this trial.</para>
<para>Trial participants will be able to earn up to $5,000 in eligible seasonal employment, such as fruit or nut picking, in regional or remote Australia, without it impacting their Centrelink payment. Currently, single Newstart recipients without children can earn up to $104 per fortnight and young jobseekers receiving youth allowance can earn $143 per fortnight before their payment is reduced. Newstart recipients can earn $1,036 a fortnight before their payment reduces to zero. Youth allowance recipients can earn $648.50 a fortnight before their payment reduces to zero.</para>
<para>The trial would allow Newstart and youth allowance recipients to participate in specified seasonal horticultural work, such as fruit picking, and earn up to $5,000 dollars in a 12-month period before their payments begin to be reduced. The existing income test will begin to apply to trial participants once they have exceeded the $5,000 limit. The trial will be capped at 7,600 participants. It is due to commence on 1 July and last for a period of two years.</para>
<para>The bill also includes a seasonal work living away and travel allowance, which is an additional incentive for jobseekers to travel in order to participate in the trial. The allowance will be administered by the employment service provider and is valued at $300.</para>
<para>Labor has always believed in the importance of supporting jobseekers to find work, so we will support this trial. We also believe that appropriate safeguards must be in place. Employers and employment service providers must not be able to misuse the program. The government must ensure that the program upholds labour standards so that employers cannot rip off participants or undercut their competitors.</para>
<para>There have been a number of high-profile investigations of exploitation in the horticultural sector—many involving the seasonal work program—and they have exposed the rotten truth behind the fruit and vegetables on supermarket shelves. An extensive and detailed Fairfax Media report by Nick McKenzie and Richard Baker exposed the underworld of illegal labour and exploitation in Australia's horticultural sector in 2015. In addition, the Fair Work Ombudsman regularly receives complaints of rip-offs and exploitation in horticultural work.</para>
<para>Complaints to the Fair Work Ombudsman from seasonal workers and backpackers working on the harvest trail have included being ripped off on transport and accommodation costs. This is usually encountered through new arrivals agreeing to enter into arrangements with someone, normally an unscrupulous labour hire provider, who meets them at a regional airport or a bus stop and promises work, accommodation and transport for a certain sum of money. They are then driven to the accommodation, stopping at an ATM along the way, and required to provide money in advance for bond, transport and accommodation costs.</para>
<para>They are also promised work, normally at a farm that has some sort of arrangement with the so-called labour hire provider. The work is normally at a piece rate so low that it is not possible to pick enough fruit to make at least the minimum hourly rate required. When they complain or raise the issue with the provider, they are often bullied or told that they will not get their bond back nor have their visa extension signed off. Often the complaints relate to a dodgy provider who has advertised on a local or foreign website, or on social media, and simply provides an offer of work picking fruit or vegetables and a mobile number to call. The Fair Work Ombudsman receives complaints regarding substandard accommodation or accommodation that is crowded and unliveable. Seasonal workers have been found living in dilapidated houses, sheds and caravans controlled by criminal syndicates who operate the labour hire firms that employ them.</para>
<para>Other issues include labour hire operators gouging and inflating expenses such as transport both in and out of the country and to and from work. In some cases, the Fair Work Ombudsman has encountered situations where a person is virtually bonded to a particular provider on the basis that they have been told that they will not have their visa extension signed unless they 'see out the season with them'. The government must take action to end the rip-offs and exploitation in this industry and ensure that participants in the trial are not exposed to the systematic exploitation and abuse that is all too common.</para>
<para>Unemployment in May was 5.7 per cent. The rate of unemployment is higher today in Australia than the United States, the UK and New Zealand. The youth unemployment rate is now 13.3 per cent. Youth unemployment is unacceptably high, particularly in regional and remote parts of Australia. In total, more than 650,000 young people are unemployed or underemployed—defined as having some work but wanting more hours. That was in February 2017.</para>
<para>Underemployment at 18 per cent of the youth labour force in February 2017 is the highest in the 40 years since the survey began. Underemployment now affects more young people than unemployment. As the latest Brotherhood of St Laurence report <inline font-style="italic">Generation stalled</inline> notes:</para>
<quote><para class="block">In the past 15 years the average gap has widened between the actual working hours of young underemployed people and the hours they would like to work.</para></quote>
<para>The report makes clear that:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The growing number of young people combining study with work does not explain the rise in underemployment—</para></quote>
<para>On the contrary:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… the rise in the percentage of casual and part-time jobs has mostly been among young workers who are not studying.</para></quote>
<para>Clearly, as policymakers, we do need to consider new approaches that address the problems of unemployment and underemployment, because not only do these high rates of youth unemployment and underemployment create significant risks for those young people affected; Australia's economic future is also put at risk not to mention the social problems arising from poverty and exclusion.</para>
<para>As our population ages, youth unemployment risks more than just the livelihoods of those young people who cannot find work. It also undermines the income tax base we will need as a nation to support our ageing population. Labor believes that Australia needs a renewed focus on supporting young people to find work and reach their full potential so that our country can reach its full potential.</para>
<para>It is very important for all of us to remember that we are talking about young people, real people—real people like 19-year-old casual worker James Bowen. In a BuzzFeed article in March this year, James said that he had been paying about two-thirds of his weekly income on rent. It says:</para>
<quote><para class="block">He currently works 10-20 hours a week in retail on the Gold Coast but is desperately trying to find a full time job. James says he applies for 30 jobs per month, and that it's not unusual for him to fill out a dozen applications in a morning.</para></quote>
<para>James says he rarely gets called back from employers after applying for jobs. He says he receives $23 a fortnight from Centrelink, which covers the cost of a few meals. He is considering moving to Brisbane to look for work but has been put off by the cost of housing. The Liberal Party needs to stop blaming young Australians like James Bowen for not working in jobs that simply do not exist. James's story is becoming increasingly common.</para>
<para>The issue of youth unemployment—and, in particular, how we can help young people to make the transition from school into study or work—was a huge issue. I am sad to say that on this issue the Turnbull government has been an abject failure. In the 2014 budget, the Liberals axed funding for Youth Connections, a program that was highly successful in assisting vulnerable young people to transition through education and into work. It provided intensive case-managed support that helped vulnerable young people become job ready. And the Liberals axed it! They just got rid of it.</para>
<para>In the same 2014 budget they tried to introduce a six-month wait for Newstart for young jobseekers under the age of 30, one of the most reviled measures from the 2014 budget. And they spent the better part of two years trying to introduce a five-week wait for young people under the age of 25. They also spent years trying to cut support for young people between the ages of 22 and 24 by pushing them off Newstart onto the lower youth allowance, a cut of around $48 a week or almost $2,500 a year. And who could forget the government's attempts to deregulate Australian universities and $100,000 degrees, making it harder for people to go to university?</para>
<para>Then we have this Prime Minister's refusal to do anything about protecting weekend penalty rates. We have a Prime Minister who is happy to see a pay cut of up to $77 a week for retail and hospitality workers and workers in pharmacies. Many of the people facing a cut to their penalty rates are young Australians. Earlier this year, the Liberal government rammed legislation through the Senate freezing the income-free areas for jobseekers. They did a deal with the Independent senators to push through cuts to jobseekers, meaning that with each year they can earn less and less in real terms before no longer qualifying to receive their payment. That is a cut to the same income-free area that this trial would temporarily relax for participants.</para>
<para>This is a really important point: the Turnbull government recently passed legislation through the Senate, with the support of the Nick Xenophon Team, that will freeze the income-free areas for jobseekers, a change that will make life harder for people on Newstart who have a small amount of work. It is a change that will adversely affect around 264,500 Australians on the lowest incomes. These are people living on very low incomes, and the thresholds being frozen are incredibly low. For parenting payment, the threshold after which the payment is reduced is around $188 a fortnight.</para>
<para>So Labor takes the view that given the track record of this government and given its track record of cuts and attacks on young people, we need to be extremely careful about how this Social Services Legislation Amendment (Seasonal Worker Incentives for Jobseekers) Bill 2017 will be implemented. We will ensure that we monitor this legislation, if it goes through the parliament. We will look at the practical implications for young people. We will ensure that young people are not ripped off, exploited and abused by farmers or by people in that industry. And we will ensure that this is actually assisting young people, not simply throwing them into cheap and exploited labour in horticulture and other areas.</para>
<para>So Labor will support this bill, with those reservations. And we will continue to monitor this bill, if and when it comes into legislated form.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:19</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SIEWERT</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise today to contribute to the debate on the Social Services Legislation Amendment (Seasonal Worker Incentives for Jobseekers) Bill 2017.</para>
<para>The bill will trial a social security income test incentive aimed at increasing the number of jobseekers who undertake specified seasonal horticultural work. The trial will run for two years, commencing 1 July this year, and will have cap of 7,600 participants. Eligible jobseekers—Newstart, youth allowance and other recipients—who have been receiving these payments continuously for at least three months will be able to earn up to $5,000 each year of the trial from specified seasonal horticultural work, such as fruit picking, without this income affecting their income support payment. Any unused balance from the first year of the trial cannot be rolled over to the second year. This measure was proposed by the Nick Xenophon Team last year, and the government subsequently included the measure in its 2016-17 Mid-year Economic and Fiscal Outlook. The amendments in this bill are concerned mainly with the seasonal horticultural work income exemption.</para>
<para>The bill also provides for participants in the trial who undertake specified seasonal horticultural work more than 120 kilometres from their home to receive a seasonal work living away and travel allowance—a payment of up to $300 a year. This allowance will not affect the participants' income support payment as it will be excluded from the social security income test.</para>
<para>The Australian Greens will be supporting this bill. However, I will note some reservations we have with the bill. We have concerns that the bill is limited to one industry and that it allows for income support recipients, who are earning the same amount of money but from different work, to have income tested differently. In other words, we are setting up a different system. As the minister mentioned in his second reading speech on this bill, a recipient of the Newstart allowance, who is single and has no children, can earn up to $104 a fortnight before their payment starts to be reduced. This means that, over the course of a year, they can only earn $2,704 without their income support payment being affected. It is for this reason that we would like to see the policy broadened to all recipients of an unemployment payment by implementing an income bank of $4,000 that accrues over time for Newstart, youth allowance and other payments. This would allow for a more even-handed approach. I will be moving—and I will move it at the end—a second reading amendment relating to the issue of an income bank and note that many in the community services sector have been putting up the concept of an income bank for some time.</para>
<para>We have doubts regarding the bill's ability to achieve employment outcomes for those receiving an unemployment payment. The bill will not provide assistance to people to overcome barriers to employment nor will it address the underlying problem of the lack of available jobs or skill deployment and development in the long term. We know from Anglicare Australia's Jobs Availability Snapshot in October last year that, for every level 5 or low-skilled position that was available in May 2016, there were 6.33 disadvantaged jobseekers. In other words, there is just not enough work for jobseekers. This figure actually worsens when you look at the state and territory breakdowns. The ratio of disadvantaged jobseekers to low-skilled vacancies was 10.62 in Tasmania and 9.39 in South Australia. In other words, we have a very significant issue. While the Greens do support this bill, much more needs to be done to assist those receiving unemployment payments into secure, long-term employment.</para>
<para>Unfortunately, governments—and I am not just pointing the finger at this government, but this government is particularly adept at this—look at this sort of short-term, very seasonal work in the regions as an answer to our unemployment issues. It is simply not the case. While it will help for short periods of time, the concept of an income bank is worthy of support—in fact, that is why I am moving this amendment—but it should not just be restricted to this seasonal horticultural work, which is the very issue that Senator Cameron has just articulated.</para>
<para>I am deeply concerned that this in fact will not make a significant difference to those unemployment rates, but a broader scheme would. This proposes an income bank so people can have $4000, which not only would assist people but it would also get over some of the issues with Centrelink which we are currently dealing with—the difficulty of reporting payments and things like that.</para>
<para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">At the end of the motion, add "but the Senate calls on the Governent to broaden this policy to all recipients of an unemployment payment by implementing an income bank of $4000 that accrues over time for Newstart and Youth Allowance (Other) payments".</para></quote>
<para>As I indicated, the Greens will be supporting this bill, but we will be monitoring it very carefully to see the outcomes and we urge the government to consider the broader concept of an income bank for all people who are receiving those payments, and not just those who are involved in seasonal work.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>10000</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator Siewert, and we note that you have moved that second reading amendment.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:26</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator XENOPHON</name>
    <name.id>8IV</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I make a brief contribution, given that I have spoken on this issue on a number of occasions previously in the context of the so-called backpackers tax. I can indicate that I and my colleagues, including Rebecca Sharkie, the member from Mayo in the other place, strongly support this legislation because this is an idea that we put to government and an idea that we pushed for. We are now seeing it crystallised in this legislation. I note the comments of Senators Cameron and Siewert, but this is a start. This is not supposed to be a panacea to the dilemma that unemployed people who are on Newstart get slugged with effectively an incredibly high marginal tax rate or very strong punitive measures if they earn more than $104 a fortnight they get hit with 50 cents in the dollar reduction in their benefits until it whittles away to nothing. I think it is about $1023 a fortnight, and they are the latest figures I have.</para>
<para>On 20 September last year at Ceravolos Ashton Valley Fresh premises in South Australia, in the electorate of Mayo, along with Rebecca Sharkie, I met with Susie Green from the Apple and Pear Growers Association of South Australia and the Cherry Growers Association of South Australia, the Adelaide Hills fruit producer, Joyce Ceravolos of Ceravolos orchards, Andrew Flavell of Flavell Orchards, Ashley Green of Lenswood Apples and Tony Hannaford of Torrens Valley Orchards. We spoke to them about their issues in finding people to do their picking and the horticultural work they need, particularly on a seasonal basis. This was in the context of the backpackers tax issue, which was causing a lot of concerns in the regions, in agriculture and specifically in horticulture. They all agreed that it would be a very good idea to supplement the income of Australian job seekers—those on unemployment benefits—by giving them a fair go and an opportunity to earn thousands of dollars each year for this work without it in any way penalising their unemployment benefits.</para>
<para>That is why this particular program to allow that income to be earned is so important. My colleagues—Senators Griff and Kakoschke-Moore and Rebecca Sharkie, the member for Mayo—all see this as a very important first step to break that nexus and to ensure that young people are given a fair go to be able to work without being penalised as they are now. The current system with its very low threshold has been in force for many years under successive governments, coalition and Labor. It acts as a real disincentive for job seekers to give it a go and to work, even in seasonal work or any type of work, without being hit with severe punitive measures. This will mean that a number of young people in this trial of several thousand job seekers around the country will actually have a chance to earn up to $5,000. They will actually have a chance to get a taste of working in, for instance, horticulture and in agricultural concerns. Who knows whether literally hundreds of those 6,000 job seekers will find long-term permanent employment as part of this trial. That is my hope and that is the hope of my colleagues.</para>
<para>I note the Greens have moved the second reading amendment. Senator Siewert has moved that amendment. I can tell Senator Siewert that we support the amendment. We believe that the low income threshold is a punitive measure that needs to be broadened out. This punitive measure needs to be mitigated against significantly by allowing unemployed people in this country the chance to earn more without being penalised severely, as they are now. So, of course, we will support that. But this is a first step. This is something that we as a team fought for and that we as a team believe is good for the regions, good for agriculture and good for horticulture in particular. It will give literally thousands of young Australians a chance to get into the workforce, a chance to earn a supplementary income and a chance not to be penalised, as they have been in the past.</para>
<para>I want this trial to work. I want this trial to be expanded. I want us to think differently about the way we treat unemployed people in this country who are penalised so heavily even if they earn a bit of income, even for seasonal work, where they are slugged so severely and which acts as a huge disincentive for people to give it a go in the workforce. So, with those words, I can indicate that we strongly support this measure. It is something that we instigated. It is something that we believe should be given a go. We also support the second reading amendment. We would like to think this trial is the start of something that can be expanded more broadly, because we believe that there are huge social and economic benefits not just for those unemployed Australians but also for small and medium businesses around the country.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:31</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RICE</name>
    <name.id>155410</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak to the Social Services Legislation Amendment (Seasonal Worker Incentives for Jobseekers) Bill 2017. I am the Greens spokesperson for agriculture and regional affairs, so today I want to comment on the Greens support for this bill and what it will mean for our regions and for agriculture in those regions. In the last session of parliament, the Greens ended the political deadlock over the backpacker tax and helped legislate for a fairer backpacker tax, providing certainty for the thousands of horticulturalists and farmers in Australia's food bowl who require seasonal labour on their farms. We also secured a handy $100 million extra for Landcare—an achievement of which the Greens are quite proud. But, that aside, we know how important seasonal labour is for these farmers. Without access to pickers and workers during harvest time, fruit rots on the vine, crops die and millions of dollars of produce are unnecessarily lost. It is a massive waste of Australia's resources.</para>
<para>The bill before the parliament today is part of the crossbench deal that the government had to strike to get their changes to the backpacker tax passed. The trial being proposed in this bill has the opportunity to be a great boon for our farmers, and it will stress test the rhetoric of the coalition. During the backpacker tax debate, we heard many government senators carry on about lazy, unemployed Australians who could not be bothered to do the hard work available to earn a wage out there in the seasonal agricultural industry. This, we pointed out, was a farce as there are so many reasons that unemployed Australians are not able to do seasonal labour, including ongoing caring commitments, education commitments, existing lease arrangements, career paths that cannot be disrupted and a host of other things.</para>
<para>However, this trial will deal with one significant barrier, and that is the effective marginal tax rates and the loss of payments due to earnings over a social security threshold. What is common knowledge to many people living on social security payments is the challenges that come with earning money just slightly over the maximum permitted each fortnight. By doing so, they often face effective tax rates well in excess of 60 cents in the dollar, so it is just not worth undertaking that work. It serves as a massive disincentive for people who do want to work to relocate for a region, particularly when the work is only for a month or two. They make all of that effort and have this massive marginal tax rate on their earnings, they do the work for a couple of months and then they have to resettle themselves back in their hometown.</para>
<para>My colleague Senator Siewert has already spoken to the problems involved with privileging one industry over another. Senator Siewert has moved a second reading amendment that would ensure that regardless of which industry people on social security payments would seek to enter an income bank would be created of up to $4,000 so that those on payments can undertake any form of non-ongoing work without compromising the stability of their support payments that provide for them across the rest of the year. This will be a massive boon and a massive improvement to the lives of people living on social security payments. It will given them access to a wider range of work experiences which will help them in achieving ongoing, viable, meaningful work in many instances.</para>
<para>To reiterate, this trial will give the opportunity to thousands of Australians to be able to earn that extra money over the picking season without facing punitive effective marginal tax rates and facing potential cuts to their support payments. It will also help thousands of farmers get their produce harvested and get it to market. That will be something I am sure those farmers, horticulturists and agriculturalists will be very pleased about, as will the general community. When people see coverage in the media of fruit rotting on the vine and produce not being taken to market they think: 'What a waste! Surely we should be able to manage our society and manage our economy better so that we can make use of this valuable produce and get it to market and get it into people's kitchens.' It is a sensible change and it will complement the modified backpacker tax that the Greens succeeded in getting through the Senate, providing confidence for farmers that they will be able to secure the seasonal labour force for harvest season. For these reasons, I really commend this bill to the Senate.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:37</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RYAN</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Given the hour, I will thank senators for their contributions. I indicate that the government will not be supporting the second reading amendment, but, as I said, I thank senators for their contributions. I commend the bill to the Senate.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>G0D</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the motion moved by Senator Siewert be agreed to.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [12:42]</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>12</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Di Natale, R</name>
                  <name>Griff, S</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                  <name>Kakoschke-Moore, S</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J</name>
                  <name>Ludlam, S</name>
                  <name>McKim, NJ</name>
                  <name>Rhiannon, L</name>
                  <name>Rice, J</name>
                  <name>Siewert, R (teller)</name>
                  <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>43</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Abetz, E</name>
                  <name>Bernardi, C</name>
                  <name>Birmingham, SJ</name>
                  <name>Brown, CL</name>
                  <name>Burston, B</name>
                  <name>Bushby, DC</name>
                  <name>Cameron, DN</name>
                  <name>Cash, MC</name>
                  <name>Cormann, M</name>
                  <name>Dastyari, S</name>
                  <name>Dodson, P</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D</name>
                  <name>Fifield, MP</name>
                  <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                  <name>Gallagher, KR</name>
                  <name>Georgiou, P</name>
                  <name>Gichuhi, LM</name>
                  <name>Hanson, P</name>
                  <name>Hinch, D</name>
                  <name>Hume, J</name>
                  <name>Ketter, CR</name>
                  <name>Kitching, K</name>
                  <name>Macdonald, ID</name>
                  <name>Marshall, GM</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                  <name>Paterson, J</name>
                  <name>Payne, MA</name>
                  <name>Pratt, LC</name>
                  <name>Reynolds, L</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A</name>
                  <name>Ryan, SM</name>
                  <name>Seselja, Z</name>
                  <name>Singh, LM</name>
                  <name>Sinodinos, A</name>
                  <name>Smith, D</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, AE (teller)</name>
                  <name>Watt, M</name>
                  <name>Williams, JR</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names></names>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.<br />Original question agreed to.<br />Bill read a second time.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division></subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Third Reading</title>
            <page.no>3827</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:46</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>G0D</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>As no amendments to the bill have been circulated, I shall call the minister to move the third reading unless any senator requires the bill be considered in Committee of the Whole.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:46</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RYAN</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill be now read a third time.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a third time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>NOTICES</title>
        <page.no>3828</page.no>
        <type>NOTICES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Withdrawal</title>
          <page.no>3828</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:46</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator KAKOSCHKE-MOORE</name>
    <name.id>265982</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Pursuant to standing order 78(1), I give notice of my intention, at the giving of notices today, to withdraw business of the Senate notice of motion No. 1 standing in my name and in the name of Senator Lambie for today, proposing that the Family Law (Superannuation) (Provision of Information—Military Superannuation and Benefits Scheme) Amendment Determination 2016 made under the Family Law Act 1945 be disallowed.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>G0D</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I understand that, under standing order 78, any senator may object to the notice of motion relating to the disallowance being withdrawn. Does any senator object? I will take that as a no. Thank you, Senator Kakoschke-Moore.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>STATEMENTS BY SENATORS</title>
        <page.no>3828</page.no>
        <type>STATEMENTS BY SENATORS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Australian Capital Territory</title>
          <page.no>3828</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:47</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SESELJA</name>
    <name.id>HZE</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>It is great to raise a couple of important local issues today in the Senate. I was grateful to have the chance to attend the graduation ceremony recently for the first cohort of Project Booyah participants. This is run by the Canberra PCYC. Project Booyah has been funded by the coalition government to help young people build a better life for themselves. Many of the people who were part of Project Booyah did not finish school and have had trouble finding work or getting their drivers licence. We have invested nearly half a million dollars into Project Booyah, and it is definitely money well spent. Young people who went through this program have more confidence, have increased life skills and have their drivers licences, which help them find jobs. Many are now also enrolled in various training courses through the local CIT.</para>
<para>Canberra PCYC have been doing great work for nearly 60 years, engaging with young people to give them assistance and training to help them deal with the challenges that life throws up. It is the commitment of Cheryl O'Donnell, Canberra PCYC Executive Manager, and her team, including the Project Booyah youth mentors who work closely with participants, that makes this program such a great success. This program was part of the Safer Streets initiative and not only makes our community safer but makes young people better equipped to reach their potential and make a great contribution to our city and to our nation.</para>
<para>I would also like to note that presiding over this ceremony was former ACT MLA Jayson Hinder, who some time later tragically passed away in a road accident overseas. He did great work with the PCYC and served the people of Canberra well as a MLA. My sincere condolences go to his family, his friends and all of his loved ones.</para>
<para>On another issue, I recently had the opportunity to visit the Belconnen men's shed and hear about the great work they are doing to support men in our local community. The men's shed allows men to come together and share their skills for the benefit of the community, and, of course, for each other. Inside the Belconnen men's shed you will find men making furniture, restoring bikes for a local school, fixing lawnmowers or making a cubby house for a local children's charity. You will also find tea bags, coffee cups and an area where the men can sit and talk. Men's shed allows them to be real, honest and open about where they are in life's journey, and, by doing that, get support and encouragement. I would like to thank Gordon Cooper and the men from the Belconnen men's shed for sharing their stories with me. I would like to thank them for all they do in our community, and the way they support each other and contribute to their community.</para>
<para>Last month I had my first meeting this year of the Youth Advisory Council. I formed my Youth Advisory Council in 2014 to better inform me of the biggest issues facing young people in Canberra. Students from a range of different schools in the ACT have already taken part and learnt valuable skills to develop their future career and study plans. Council appointments are for one year and provide opportunities for engagement and roundtable discussions. Each year I seek applications for new members of the council to take it forward. I have a number of outstanding young people who are contributing this year. I look forward to working with these outstanding young Canberrans throughout the year. I would like to thank the outgoing members of the council for their engagement in its work and their dedication to causes important to young people in Canberra.</para>
<para>Over the past few months I have been meeting with the local community to hear about particularly dangerous roads in the ACT, and as chair of the ACT blackspot committee, I work to allocate funding to roads which are identified by the community as being in need of urgent upgrade. Last year through the program the ACT received $2.4 million to fix roads and intersections in Canberra that see a lot of accidents. Most of us would have seen the benefits of this funding as we drive down the Tuggeranong Parkway and see the animal fencing and the new lighting. This was just one of a number of projects in 2016. This year we have new projects being undertaken in Lyneham, Isabella Plains, Braddon, Greenway, Kingston, Tuggeranong and Forrest. On average, fixing these areas reduced crashes by around 30 per cent, so I am delighted to be a part of a government that can make sure these much needed upgrades occur. I say to members of the community that we are always interested in their feedback so that we can get in front of black spots before, perhaps, we see those serious accidents, particularly those fatal accidents.</para>
<para>As Canberra paused to remember the sacrifices made by our service personnel on Anzac Day, it was fantastic to see such strong support for this year's Pollie Pedal. Each year members of parliament go on this bike tour to raise funds for a specific cause. I have had the opportunity to be a part of it over the past couple of years. This year the partner was Soldier On, who work with current and former service men and women to help them through their reintegration to civilian life. Their work focuses on both physical and mental health and supports those who have served with Army, Navy, Air Force, the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade, the AFP and the Department of Immigration and Border Protection. Since it began in 1998, Pollie Pedal has raised over $5 million for organisations including the Royal Flying Doctor Service, Ronald McDonald House, Youth Insearch, the Paralympic Games and Carers Australia. This year over $400,000 was raised for Soldier On—a wonderful organisation. Well done to all of those who made the donations, and also those who participated in the Pollie Pedal and put this money towards such good cause.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Queensland: Northern Australia Infrastructure Facility</title>
          <page.no>3830</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:54</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>As I have said on many occasions in this chamber, regional Queensland urgently needs jobs and urgently needs new projects funded by this federal government. Unfortunately, the federal budget handed down recently again failed to deliver any new funding—particularly to Central Queensland. Fund after fund have been set up by this government previously, allegedly to build projects in regional Queensland, but are failing to do anything.</para>
<para>There is no better example of this than the government's two-year-old Northern Australia Infrastructure Facility, a $5 billion fund that was set up by the then Abbott government nearly two years ago. To this day, it has continued to fail the people of regional Queensland. Not one new project has been funded, not one job created and not one shovel has been in the ground creating jobs in regional Queensland, despite being up and running for nearly two years. In fact, the only money that has been spent by the Northern Australia Infrastructure Facility is the highly-paid salaries that have gone to its directors. I will have a bit more to say about the directors shortly.</para>
<para>This Northern Australia Infrastructure Facility—or, as we have come to term it, the 'No Actual Infrastructure Fund'—is clouded in secrecy. It is impossible to get information from this government about the kinds of applications that have been made for funding from this fund. It is impossible to get any information at all about the apparent conflicts of interest that a number of directors of this fund have. The entire fund is shrouded in secrecy, and the government will not say anything about its operation, despite the fact that it has been given $5 billion of taxpayers funds to spend.</para>
<para>The act that governs the Northern Australia Infrastructure Facility is very clear about the duties of directors to act in good faith and to disclose any possible conflicts of interest. Those requirements of the act are reflected in the fund's own conflict-of-interest policy, which requires directors to disclose any conflicts of interest that they may have, whether they be actual conflicts, potential conflicts or apparent conflicts. There is also a requirement in the fund's own policy that applies to its directors, that directors excuse themselves from discussions about funding applications which might give rise to a conflict of interest against them. But as I said, it is impossible to find out any information from this government about whether those policies have been complied with.</para>
<para>In recent weeks, a number of serious concerns have been raised about a number of directors of this fund—in particular, one director, Ms Karla Way-McPhail. This is an issue that I pursued at estimates, but I thought it was important to update the Senate on this as well.</para>
<para>This issue about Ms Way-McPhail's conflicts of interest is not just about something that affects one particular director of this fund; it actually directly involves Minister Matt Canavan, the Minister for Resources and Northern Australia. What we uncovered at Senate estimates recently was that Minister Canavan had actually put forward Ms Way-McPhail for nomination to the facility's board around two years ago. That is no great surprise, because he admitted in estimates that she is a friend of his. That is also not a surprise—they are from the same part of the world, from Yeppoon in Central Queensland, and Ms Way-McPhail is a well-known supporter of the LNP in Senator Canavan's backyard. So it is no surprise that he is a friend of hers. He admitted at estimates that he has seen her at numerous LNP fundraisers. Again, that is not a great surprise, because we were also able to establish that in 2014-15, Ms Way-McPhail had been a donor to the LNP in Queensland to the value of $1,200.</para>
<para>What we were able to establish at estimates is that there is a direct connection between the appointment of Ms Way-McPhail—a friend of Senator Canavan's, a donor to the LNP and, as I will talk about later, a hyperpartisan supporter of the LNP—and Minister Canavan. He had her appointed to this board to oversee $5 billion in taxpayers' funds.</para>
<para>Their personal connections are one thing, but it does go beyond that. As I said, there have been numerous concerns raised in recent weeks about serious potential conflicts of interest, or potentially even actual conflicts of interests, that exist in relation to Ms Way-McPhail. If you do a company search for Ms Way-McPhail, as I have done, you will see that she has extensive business holdings in Central Queensland, an area that potentially does stand to gain from funding applications made to the NAIF.</para>
<para>I should say that Labor supports the NAIF. We support funding being distributed from the NAIF to get projects up and running. What we do not support is the apparent conflict of interest between at least one director of this fund, who was appointed by Minister Matt Canavan, and the potential for her to use her position to gain personally. What does that mean? As I say, among her extensive business interests, she is the owner and director of at least two different mining services companies: Undamine and Coal Train. They are mining services companies which, among other things, provide labour hire and other services to the mining industry. It is already on the public record that there is at least one major mining project that is currently seeking funding from the NAIF to assist it with an infrastructure project, and it is quite likely—although we do not know this for sure, because the NAIF will not tell us—that there are numerous other mining companies who want to operate in Central Queensland. Good on them. We support those kinds of projects going ahead, but it is quite likely that there are numerous other mining projects in central and northern Australia which are seeking funding from the NAIF, seeking funding from a body which has a director who personally stands to gain from those applications if they are granted.</para>
<para>But her interests do not only extend to the mining industry. Ms Way-McPhail is also the director and owner of another company operating in Central Queensland: The Keppel Barge Pty Ltd. That is a company that operates a barge service between the mainland and Great Keppel Island, a tourist island well known to many Australians which is potentially facing further redevelopment. In addition to owning this barge company that operates with Great Keppel Island, Ms Way-McPhail has also been the director of a community protest group called Our Keppel Our Future. That group was formed with the explicit purpose of supporting redevelopment of tourist facilities on Great Keppel Island by a company called Tower Holdings. And what do you know? We have been able to establish that Tower Holdings has also applied for funding from the NAIF. In addition to the mining companies that are seeking funding from the NAIF to do things in Central Queensland which Ms Way-McPhail could personally benefit from, there is also another company which is seeking to build a tourist development on Great Keppel Island. The NAIF may well grant it funds. That development may well go ahead. That would be a good thing for the region, but Ms Way-McPhail is operating a barge company which could personally stand to gain. Let's remember: this is Ms Way-McPhail, friend of Minister Canavan, appointed by Minister Canavan, donor to the LNP.</para>
<para>Ms Way-McPhail's issues in relation to her membership of this board go beyond these potential conflicts of interest. She has also demonstrated herself to be a highly partisan supporter of the LNP and the government. Until she deleted her account on Facebook, she was a regular contributor expressing her political views on Facebook. On Senator Canavan's own Facebook page, where he made comments about the mining industry, Ms Way-McPhail commented that a vote for the ALP equals a vote for the Greens equals a vote for the end of the resource sector. No miner or secondary industry that supports mining would even consider voting for these anti-mining political parties.</para>
<para>So we have a director of a $5 billion fund, appointed by Minister Canavan, a friend of Minister Canavan, a donor to the LNP, has extensive interests in the mining and tourism industries, which may both benefit from applications to the NAIF. She was also, until she deleted her account, commenting publicly on Minister Canavan's own Facebook page and the Facebook page of Michelle Landry, the member for Capricornia, making highly partisan comments. You really have to ask yourself whether this is an appropriate person to be overseeing what are supposed to be independent decisions about the allocation of $5 billion in taxpayers funds. We really have to ask whether we can have any confidence that she is actually approaching this job in an independent manner.</para>
<para>So what should happen? For starters, this afternoon Labor has moved a motion to establish a Senate inquiry into the apparent conflicts of interest which riddle the northern Australia infrastructure facility. We were unable to get answers from the minister at estimates, so we have had to take this course of establishing a Senate inquiry to look into this further. I also noticed that, when some of these allegations first were raised back on 29 May, an article in <inline font-style="italic">The Guardian </inline>quoted the Deputy Prime Minister, Mr Joyce, as saying there would be an investigation into these apparent conflicts of interest, so I would be very interested in the minister now coming and advising us what the outcome of that investigation has been.</para>
<para>But, more than anything, what we need is some actual transparency around the operation of this board. Minister Canavan should come in here today, advise the Senate of what conflicts of interest have been disclosed by both Ms Way-McPhail and any other directors of this board. He should advise whether these directors have absented themselves. More than anything, I do not think that it can be proven she can remain on this board. He should sack her today.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Tasmania: Tourism</title>
          <page.no>3832</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:04</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WHISH-WILSON</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I am very pleased to rise today to speak of a fantastic experience I had in my home state of Tasmania in the week of Easter this year: going mountain biking in the Blue Tier, which is in the north-east of Tasmania. I want to speak on why mountain biking is a success story for my state's economy. I have always wanted to go to the Blue Tier. There is an old town there called Derby. It is an old tin mining town and an old forestry town and it has not seen prosperity since 1946. It is the kind of town you used to drive through and never stop in. You would never stop, although there were three pubs in the town and plenty of beauty there if you wanted to look, but most people gave it a wide berth on their way to Pyengana or St Helens or somewhere like Bay of Fires on the east coast of Tasmania.</para>
<para>But Derby is on the map now because the Tasmanian government, with the help of funding from the federal government, has put in place a project that has been hugely successful in attracting people to the area. The economy, the diversification program, started in the early 2000s, but it was not until the Tasmania forest agreement was put in place, following the 2010 election, that we saw money flow—$100 million of federal funding—towards diversifying Tasmania's economy. One of the projects that was picked up by local communities—communities that did not have a future or felt they did not have a future—was putting in world-class mountain bike trails. Now there are a number of them around my home town of Launceston. Hollybank is one which Forestry Tasmania manages, and I would thoroughly recommend it to anyone who likes mountain biking. But I have to say, as much as I have always gone to Hollybank and Trevallyn Reserve, which also have a number of world-class tracks on the outskirts of Launceston, the Blue Tier is in a class of its own. It is now officially on the world map.</para>
<para>Recently, we had the Enduro Challenge in the Blue Tier in Derby. Enduro is a series of 12 mountain bike races that occur all around the world, and Derby, the once forgotten town of Derby, was on the international map, up there with Whistler in Canada, with Colorado and with Rotorua in New Zealand. It meant that 2,000 people—riders and their crews, and nearly 100 journalists—descended on north-east Tasmania. I was lucky enough the week of Easter to go to the Blue Tier. My wife and I were lucky enough to be some of the first people to experience what has been called the Blue Derby Pods Ride, which is a high-end eco accommodation that has been built on an old tailings stand of an old mine. It is down on the river in the Blue Derby. It is three days and three nights of accommodation. You are shown the trails by experts and, if you are not a good rider, you can start from scratch. They provide all the gear and they show you how to ride properly and the tricks of the trade. By the third day, nearly everybody was taking on the professional trails and the berms and the magnificent flow that comes with some of these world-class trails. You get fed and you get looked after, and that is the kind of experience that adds value to an area that was once trashed by mining. It has regrown, and it is sad to say that the area was also earmarked for clear-fell forestry.</para>
<para>This is the reason I am talking about this today. This is not only a diversification of the economy; this is providing an alternative use for our forests in Tasmania. When you stay at the Blue Derby Pods Ride, when you are sitting there having a glass of wine after your hard day of riding, covered in bruises and mud and scratches, as I was, the owners—an absolutely fantastic young Tasmanian couple, Steve and Tara Howell—will tell you about how the forestry coupes, directly across from where you are sitting, were all earmarked for clear-fell. They have now managed to secure an agreement with the government that they will not be felled for at least 15 years. This is really important. It was not until the last day that we went to the Blue Tier ride, which is 25 kilometres of pure flow and an amazing experience through old-growth forests—you literally expect Gandalf to jump out from behind a tree nearly everywhere you go.</para>
<para class="italic">Senator Bernardi interjecting—</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WHISH-WILSON</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>There was some of the most stunning scenery you are ever likely to see, Senator Bernardi, and this area is now being showcased to so many riders. Let's talk about that. When these trails were set up, the local councils were hoping they might attract 5,000 riders to the north-east, to the Blue Tier and to Blue Derby. Since the Enduro Challenge, the area has been experienced by nearly 5,000 riders a month. They are expecting 50,000 riders to come to the area in the next 12 to 18 months. Growing that quickly and being a success story is going to present challenges, particularly if the world Enduro World Series occurs there again next year. These challenges need to be properly managed. That means consultation with the community to make sure that where bushwalkers are using trails there is no conflict between riders and walkers and of course taking care of refuse and sewage and these kinds of things.</para>
<para>Here is a once forgotten town that is now on the international map. Its beauty is on display for anyone who wants to go and see it, and the forest areas have been put to a different use to clear-felling. The trails are still under development. There is still potential to develop more trails. They have to be done carefully and with consultation with the community. But at the end of the day, this is the kind of future that Tasmania can stand up and say: 'We are doing anything as well as anyone else in the world. This is world class and this is what we have to offer.'</para>
<para>I asked the head of the Enduro World Series at a breakfast in Launceston what was different about Blue Derby and why they chose Blue Derby. The leader of the enduro challenge said two things. He said the rock formations in Blue Derby are some of the most unique on the world tour. There are stunning dolerite and granite rock formations. He then said that the other thing that is so unique about the Blue Derby was its amazing natural forests, native forests. That is what is different about it and that is what is bringing people to the area, not to mention the flow. Nirvana for mountain bikers is what is called flow. Flow is when you ride and you do not need to use your brakes, you hardly ever need to use your pedals and you get this amazing momentum. The trails are designed by professionals, many of them world-class riders themselves, to provide this experience. This is what mountain bike riders from all round the world are seeking.</para>
<para>The success story means that many of the businesses in the Blue Derby are new. As I said, there are three pubs there. There is the Weldborough pub, a 140-year-old up on the hill where the 25 kilometre Blue Derby ride terminates. You can go and get yourself a pint of locally made milk stout at the pub after your 25 kilometre ride, and get a bus back up to the top if you want to do it again. They are doing over 100 covers a day. They were lucky if they did 30 covers on a weekend before the mountain biking started. They are expecting 5,000 riders a month to go to the Blue Derby now, with 70 per cent expected to come from interstate. When they come to Tasmania, they disembark in Launceston, my home town, or they come over on the ferry. They book a night's accommodation, they eat in the local economy, they spend their money, and they go and tell their friends about their experience.</para>
<para>But it is not just about the riding; it is about how beautiful Tasmania is and the vision that the Greens have had for nearly 30 years for alternative business models, alternative futures for regional Tasmanian towns like Launceston and Hobart. There is so much potential if we think outside the box, if we actually look at different business models. I have already said here that the Tarkine in the north-west is the jewel in the crown that still has not been tapped. That area is still potentially going to be mined and logged. It is totally unprotected yet it is absolutely one of the most stunning places in the world, with enormous potential for more mountain bike trails, enormous potential for other forms of ecotourism, if the tourism industry had some certainty and was allowed to invest in that area. That is why the Greens have been really keen to see large parts of the Tarkine protected, as they should be. The Tarkine has already been given World Heritage value. In fact it was given an emergency listing by the Howard government. Senator Heffernan, who is not here today, was primarily responsible for that emergency listing. There is so much potential if we think outside of the box, play on our strengths, focus on our competitive advantages, and manage the environment carefully and sensitively with local communities.</para>
<para>Tasmania continues to be a world leader in areas where we know we have natural advantages. We have to be the best in the world if we are going to keep attracting people to the area. I love the Blue Derby Pods Ride. I recommend people go to Blue Derby, check it out, look at that kind of experience when they come to Tasmania, make sure they spend lots of money in our economy and tell their friends to come and visit.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Australian Defence Force</title>
          <page.no>3835</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:14</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator IAN MACDONALD</name>
    <name.id>YW4</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>As Australians, we all owe an enormous debt of gratitude to the men and women of the Australian Defence Force. Our Defence Force is recognised around the world for its professionalism, leadership and capability. As Australians, everywhere we go in the world we can be proud of the very high regard in which our Defence Force is held. Today I want to pay tribute not only to the current serving members of the Australian Army, Navy and Air Force, but also to their predecessors who fought and, in some cases, died so bravely in upholding the beliefs and freedoms that we as Australians often take for granted. My admiration for the Defence Force has been reinforced in recent months by a number of events it has been my privilege to attend—events which have involved and recognised our Defence Force and actions over the past 100 years.</para>
<para>On Anzac Day this year I was honoured to be in London and to lay a wreath at the Australian War Memorial at Hyde Park Corner in the presence of His Royal Highness Prince Andrew; yourself, Madam Acting Deputy President Reynolds; the Australian High Commissioner to the United Kingdom, His Excellency the Hon. Alexander Downer AC; and the Australian Minister for Finance, Senator the Hon. Mathias Cormann. I actually represented the Senate President, Senator the Hon. Stephen Parry, in laying a wreath to commemorate the sacrifice of Australian soldiers at Gallipoli and at the Western Front in France during the First World War. Hundreds of other Australians and New Zealanders shared my pride at the dawn service, and it was uplifting to see so many others paying their respects despite the bitterly cold weather.</para>
<para>Later on that day, along with Mr Downer; Senator Cormann; the British Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs, Mr Boris Johnson; the British Secretary of State for Defence, Sir Michael Fallon; and dignitaries from all of the countries involved in the First World War, I laid a wreath at the Cenotaph in Whitehall on behalf of the Senate President.</para>
<para>Following this ceremony we attended a wonderfully moving ceremony at Westminster Abbey before a packed congregation. At the ceremony and at a reception hosted by the Dean of Westminster Abbey in the Jerusalem Chamber, it was interesting to talk with the British First Sea Lord, Admiral Sir Philip Jones, one of the many people who commended the professionalism of the Australian Navy.</para>
<para>In early May this year events were held to commemorate the part played by Australian and United States sailors and airmen in the decisive Battle of the Coral Sea. This was a landmark battle of the Second World War which, it was said by many at the time, stopped the invasion of Australia. We now know that this Japanese battle fleet was not, in fact, an invasion force for Australia, but the Battle of the Coral Sea was the first time the Japanese advance in South-East Asia and the Pacific had been halted. This battle has been commemorated, particularly in northern Australia, for 75 years.</para>
<para>I want to pay tribute to the people of the small seaside town of Cardwell, who each year hold a commemoration service in their Coral Sea Battle Park. They have built this park over the years, mainly by volunteer labour, on the shores of the Coral Sea at what they claim is the closest place on the Australian mainland to where the battle occurred 75 years ago. The wonderful commemoration service at Cardwell this year was attended by the Minister for Veterans' Affairs, the Hon. Dan Tehan; the United States Charge d' Affaires; Mr James Carouso; The United States Consul General, Ms Valerie Fowler; the Chief of the Royal Australian Navy, Vice Admiral Tim Barrett; and many other dignitaries before a huge crowd of over 1,000 locals and visitors who flock to Cardwell for this service every year. We were privileged to have with us a 93-year-old veteran of the Battle of the Coral Sea, Mr Cecil Wiswell, who, as a 17-year-old seaman was on the USS <inline font-style="italic">Lexington</inline> when it was sunk during the battle 75 years ago.</para>
<para>The next morning, in Townsville, a dawn service commemorated the sacrifices made during the Battle of the Coral Sea. This event was attended by the Prime Minister, the Governor-General, the Queensland Premier, the American Ambassador and Consul, the Chief of the Defence Force, Chief of Navy and many other distinguished service and civilian personnel. As senators would know, Townsville was a huge army and air force base during the Second World War, and the ground based bombers and reconnaissance aircraft from Townsville took part in the Battle of the Coral Sea.</para>
<para>A few days after this moving dawn service, troops at Lavarack Barracks, Australia's largest army base, based on the outskirts of Townsville, participated in a parade to mark the anniversary of the Battle of Kapyong, one of the most decisive battles in the Korean War. Australian, New Zealand and Canadian troops, led by the 3rd Battalion Royal Australian Regiment—nicknamed 'Old Faithful' as a result of their Korean engagement—stemmed the Chinese and North Korean push towards Seoul. Despite being vastly outnumbered, 'Old Faithful' stood their ground in the Kapyong Valley and prevailed. The 3rd Royal Australian Regiment earned the US Presidential Unit Citation for their bravery, skill and courage in that battle.</para>
<para>The Kapyong parade conducted in Townsville in May by current service personnel was a masterpiece of precision and pride as the troops marched for the reviewing officer, Major General Paul McLachlan, and the Acting CO of Lavarack, Colonel Damian Hill. The parade was supported by the Pipes and Drums of the 3rd Battalion and also the Brass Band of 3RAR, 8/9 RAR and 5/6 RVR, who provided a wonderful musical accompaniment to the parade. In fact, this musical display was so moving that many locals, including the mayor, raised the possibility of a military tattoo in Townsville during the opening celebrations for the Townsville Stadium expected in 2020.</para>
<para>Following the Kapyong parade, there was a farewell parade for Task Group Taji 5 comprising principally elements from 3RAR, and commanded by Task Group Commander, Colonel Steve D'Arcy. The combined Australia-New Zealand task force is part of the US-led coalition engaged to train selected units of the Iraqi security forces in order to defeat Daesh and maintain security in Iraq. The task force will leave very shortly for the Middle East to perform their important work, wearing a task group patch inspired by the one worn by the Australian Mounted Division in the First World War. That division consisted of the Australian Light Horse and New Zealand Mounted Rifle Brigade as part of the British Desert Mounted Corps, who were predominant in the offensive operations in Gaza, including the famous battle of Beersheba. Task Group Taji 5 is well prepared under the tutelage of the Commanding Officer Training Task Unit 5, Lieutenant Colonel Giles Cornelia, and Regimental Sergeant Major, Warrant Officer Class One, Brad Doyle.</para>
<para>All of these events over the April-May period commemorated the work of the Australian Defence Force in the First World War, the Second World War, the Korean War, and in the Middle East today. Each service and each event highlighted once again the excellence of our men and women in uniform, and the courageous work they have done for Australia over the last 100 years. I feel privileged to have had the opportunity to attend and, in some events, participate in honouring our defence forces and their outstanding service to this nation.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Disability</title>
          <page.no>3837</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:23</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAROL BROWN</name>
    <name.id>F49</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise today to speak about the need for a royal commission into violence and abuse of people with disability. Last month, Labor announced that, if elected, we would establish a royal commission—a decision made after extensive consultation. I want to quote some of the people who were with me, Labor leader Bill Shorten and Ms Jenny Macklin on the day that Mr Shorten announced our decision. One of those survivors of abuse said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Enough is enough. It is our time to be heard. Here is our time for justice, now.</para></quote>
<para>Paula also shared her story of abuse:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Our son is autistic and our son has been physically and sexually abused. What you need to understand is autistic people don't lie. So when they tell these stories, you need to listen, you need to really listen and make sure that these people know that they're being heard.</para></quote>
<para>It was an incredibly emotional day listening to those harrowing stories.</para>
<para>I wish that the Prime Minister and his ministers had been with us in Melbourne for our announcement, because I am sure that they would have reconsidered their decision not to support a royal commission, and Mr Turnbull would realise that a royal commission is the best and most appropriate response that will have the most far-reaching outcomes to tackle this abuse that these people have suffered. I wish the Prime Minister would listen to the 163 community groups and nearly 400 individuals who last week sent him a civil society statement calling for a royal commission—among them St Vincent de Paul, Anglicare and Amnesty International. As Carolyn Frohmader, from Women with Disabilities Australia, said about the need for a royal commission:</para>
<quote><para class="block">I actually feel that things are getting worse not better. It is an issue of critical, urgent and national significance.</para></quote>
<para>People with disability and their families have suffered abuse for far too long. Their voices should no longer be ignored or left unaddressed.</para>
<para>In November 2014 ABC <inline font-style="italic">Four Corners </inline>aired a program entitled <inline font-style="italic">In Our Care</inline>. This documentary detailed violence against people with disability in residential settings. It exposed examples of acts of sexual violence and other forms of violence and abuse. This program exposed not only abuse but also systemic complacency and a lack of follow-up to hold perpetrators of these abusive acts accountable, resulting in these individuals being allowed to continue to work in the disability sector. In January 2015 peak disability advocacy groups renewed a campaign for a national inquiry into the abuse of people with disability and wrote to the Prime Minister. This letter was endorsed by over 95 state and territory based disability and related organisations from around Australia and supported by over 11,000 signatories to a petition calling for a national inquiry.</para>
<para>The issues raised reverberated and there was so much concern that, in February 2015, the matter was referred to the Senate Community Affairs Committee. As a result, a Senate inquiry into the violence, abuse and neglect against people with disability in institutional and residential settings was established. The evidence to the Senate inquiry was shocking and compelling. The Senate inquiry found that violence and abuse against people with disability in Australia is prolific and systemic. It was further evidenced that people with disability face unspeakable levels of violence and abuse across multiple institutional and residential settings.</para>
<para>The results of the Senate inquiry were released in November 2015. They contained 30 recommendations. The No. 1 recommendation was:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The committee recommends that a Royal Commission into violence, abuse and neglect of people with disability be called, with terms of reference to be determined in consultation with people with disability, their families and supporters, and disability organisations.</para></quote>
<para>This recommendation came down after the consideration of a substantial body of evidence, after listening to the individual examples of the harrowing accounts of their abuse and after hearing from the families, carers and other significant people and groups affected by the abuse of someone they love and for whom they care.</para>
<para>Regrettably, after the Senate committee's report was released, the government took 15 months before they responded. It was extremely disappointing that in March this year the government announced that it would oppose the need for a royal commission and that there would be no royal commission. The government would oppose the No. 1 recommendation from a Senate committee report. Instead, the government proposed that the National Disability Insurance Scheme's new Quality and Safeguarding Framework would address all of these issues. We welcome the framework, but Labor's clear position is that we need a royal commission. The Quality and Safeguarding Framework is required to protect and prevent people with disability from experiencing harm arising from poor-quality or unsafe supports or services under the NDIS.</para>
<para>It is important to understand that the vast majority of people with disability in this country will not be covered by the NDIS. It is estimated that the NDIS will only cover approximately 10 per cent of people with disability across Australia. A royal commission would be for all people with disability in Australia. The evidence is clear that abuse of people with disability is not just confined to that sector. A royal commission would ensure that justice is done, that people with disability are properly protected and quality and safeguards are in place for all. This is not guaranteed by the NDIS Quality and Safeguarding Framework.</para>
<para>These people need to have an opportunity to tell their stories. These people deserve, wherever possible, to have the criminal justice system respond to their allegations of abuse. Australia deserves the right to feel confident that justice has been served. Labor believes that a royal commission into violence and abuse of people with disability is essential for the following reasons: to enable people with disability to tell their stories and give evidence in a safe and supported way; to compel witnesses and representatives of agencies and service systems to appear; to refer criminal allegations; to ensure people with disability, who have been the subject of abuse, their carers, families and significant others receive the necessary supports and treatment to repair their lives; to ensure that all service systems are properly examined so the essential change that needs to occur identifies a way forward; to provide essential resources to ensure that people with a disability are fully able to participate and contribute to a royal commission; to commission the essential ongoing research and development that will be required to arrest the violence and abuse; to develop nationally consistent approaches for the protection of people with disability in all states and territories; and to make recommendations on legal reform, policy systems, practices and codes that will create a safer future for all people with disability in Australia.</para>
<para>This Friday the Disability Reform Council will meet. I am urging them to impress upon the Turnbull government the need to reverse their position and to support a royal commission. I hope that the government heeds the call for a royal commission that has come from so many quarters—not only disability advocacy groups but those who have suffered abuse and violence, their families, carers and supporters. I hope that the government does heed their call to establish a royal commission and that the Turnbull government will consult the disability community on the scope and terms of reference for this much needed royal commission. As Disabled People's Organisations Australia said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Only a royal commission can provide a just response to people with disability who have been denied justice for so long.</para></quote>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Qatar</title>
          <page.no>3839</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:33</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BERNARDI</name>
    <name.id>G0D</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>In recent times, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, the UAE and Egypt have severed diplomatic and economic ties with the nation state of Qatar. They have implemented travel bans and precluded any diplomatic relations. Qatar Airways are not eligible to fly over these countries' land masses nor are their passengers and citizens able to transit through these countries.</para>
<para>The reason is quite simple: Qatar stands accused of funding state-sanctioned terrorism. It is linked very closely to the Muslim Brotherhood, an organisation that of course caused such unrest in Egypt and continues to export hardline Islamism right around the world.</para>
<para>Qatar is also a supporter of Hamas. Now, indeed, Hamas is a terrorist organisation. It is recognised as such in the United States, Israel, Egypt and Canada. Qatar is their largest funder. The US President has also accused Qatar of being a state funder of terrorism. Indeed, his opponent in the last presidential election, Ms Clinton, whilst at the same time as the Clinton Foundation was accepting donations from Qatar and the ruling family there, was in her own emails, which were leaked, acknowledging that Qatar is fuelling and funding terrorism around the world.</para>
<para>Australia lists Jabhat Fateh al-Sham as a terrorist organisation, and Qatar stands accused of funding this very group. An Australian citizen known as Abu Sulayman al-Muhajir has been a top-ranking member of this group. This is a man that <inline font-style="italic">The Australian</inline> newspaper this week claimed was the most senior Australian terrorist. He himself is under sanctions from Australia and the US because he is specifically identified and designated as a global terrorist.</para>
<para>The Qatari government has set up a state owned company in Australia called Hassad Foods. It was set up in 2008 to provide food security for the Qatari people—given that they have very little agricultural land themselves, they invested heavily into it. They invested at least half a billion dollars of their initial $1 billion funding into agricultural land in Australia.</para>
<para>In my home state of South Australia, they have purchased farms on the Eyre Peninsula and in the mid-north. And for the interest of my colleagues from interstate, they own five properties in New South Wales, three in Western Australia, one in Victoria and one at Cunnamulla in Queensland. This begs the question: why are we allowing a state actor—a state sanctioned funder—in terrorism globally to invest in prime agricultural land, as well as in other areas, in our own country? Whilst the Qataris might be interested in food security, Australia should be interested in national security. Why are we allowing this to take place in our very own land?</para>
<para>Alone, the Qatari company owns 300,000 hectares of prime agricultural land in Australia. It has purchased that over the last seven or so years. That is 3,000 square kilometres of land owned by a government that funds our enemies. Three thousand square kilometres is more than 25 per cent of the Qatari nation's landmass in itself. It is bigger than the state of Luxembourg. And this investment is not driven by commercial imperative; it is being driven by strategic or political imperatives. We can have a debate and a discussion about the wisdom of foreign ownership of some of our strategic assets, but I do not know how anyone can justify a government that is recognised by its peers and our allies as the funder of terrorism owning such resources in our own country.</para>
<para>We ask our troops to put their lives on the line to fight terrorism. In recent times we have had Australians tragically lose their lives at the hands of Islamist extremists in separate incidents. If the federal government is serious about combating terrorism at home and abroad then they will stand up to every single person, every single entity and every single government that funds, supports or provides safe haven to the people who want to damage our interests. So, if Qatar supports those who seek to kill our people and to destroy our way of life in the name of some global Islamic caliphate, we are right to say, 'We don't want you here. We do not want your investment in our country because it jeopardises our national interests.'</para>
<para>I recognise this is an almost unprecedented step, but we have to ask ourselves: where do we draw the line if Qatar is recognised as a state sanctioned funder of terrorism internationally? We know it has a propaganda arm through Al Jazeera, which was the preferred communications medium for Osama bin Laden—it always had the scoop and always takes a slanted view of Islamism around the world. If they are propagating that brand of inhumanity across the globe and they are piling billions of dollars into strategic assets which are being used to generate income or food for some sort of security for themselves, which they then channel into funding our enemies, we have to ask: why are we allowing it? We would not allow North Korea to buy 3,000 square kilometres of prime agricultural land in Australia. You would not expect Iran or whoever is in charge of Libya at the moment to be able to do it, so why are we turning a blind eye to Hassad Food, the Qatari owned organisation that has over 3,000 square kilometres of prime agricultural land? The time has come to say, 'Enough is enough.' It is time for the government to ask, or demand, that the Qatari government divest itself of these strategic resources, until it renounces and ceases to fund and support terrorism, either in the Middle East or anywhere else around the world. That is the very least we can do to take a stand against the sorts of activities that are going on around the world that would not exist and could not exist without the resources of organisations, businesses and governments that are sympathetic towards or overtly supportive of their cause.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Watt, Senator Murray</title>
          <page.no>3841</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:42</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'SULLIVAN</name>
    <name.id>247871</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>A contribution made in this place earlier today by Senator Watt, the Labor senator for Queensland, in, again, an almost grubby personal attack by the senator on another member of the parliament, a senator in this place, is starting to show a trend. I have not seen that before in this Senate in my three-plus years. I urge everybody to keep a focus on Senator Watt's contribution of playing the person and not the issue—not challenging policy but playing the individuals. It is a very disturbing trend appearing in his behaviour in this place. This is a big boys and girls' sandpit and we are all used to the strong rough-and-tumble of politics in this place, but Senator Watt's colleagues need to have a yarn to him to explain to him that personal politics has no place in this chamber. This is the second attack that he has made in the last two sitting weeks of this parliament, and it is a very unsavoury practice and one that he should reflect upon. Perhaps it is clear that his skill base does not allow him to make the argument on facts and on policy issues, and perhaps some of his colleagues could provide him with some support and education so that he can lift the standard of his contributions in this place.</para>
<para>Let us make no mistake about the fundamental objective of Senator Watt and the Labor Party and, indeed, a new coalition between the Labor opposition and the Greens on the crossbench. This has one single objective in life, and that is to ensure that there is no further development of the coal industry in my home state of Queensland. I urge all Queenslanders to look very thoroughly at the motives behind Senator Watt and his colleagues in the Greens and what they are doing. Every single aspect is directed at inhibiting the growth of the Galilee Basin, the growth that will come with NAIF—the Northern Australia Infrastructure Facility—the development of the rail line and all of the massive benefits that will flow to my constituency in Queensland.</para>
<para>When will the opposition in this place, including the Greens and the Labor Party, join with the government in a bipartisan approach to develop the economy of my home state and all the benefits that that will bring to the nation? The attack today, for example, in relation to NAIF and the appointment of directors to NAIF—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Watt</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Conflicts of interest in NAIF.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'SULLIVAN</name>
    <name.id>247871</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Let's just bring some things to the attention of the chamber some things which were delivered by a Labor government either when Senator Watt was the chief of staff to the failed Labor Premier, or indeed when he was a part of the failed Labor government—the one that was punted. He was able to lose one of Labor's finest seats that had been held by a Labor member for 40 years without a break. Let's look at some of the appointments in Queensland—and this is directly relevant to Senator Watt and his colleagues. They appointed the former Labor ministers, Mike Reynolds and Paul Lucas to the boards of the Port of Townsville and Powerlink.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Watt</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>What are their conflicts of interest?</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'SULLIVAN</name>
    <name.id>247871</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>They are very powerful and influential positions. They are just old hacks who have left the—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>250216</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Watt, your interjections are starting to become disorderly. You were heard in silence on this matter, so I would ask for the same degree of respect for Senator O'Sullivan.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'SULLIVAN</name>
    <name.id>247871</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>As I often say in this place: you know when you are on the money with the volume and frequency of attempts to try and impede your presentation. Senator Watt and his colleagues—in one of the two capacities that I mentioned—appointed former ALP president and union boss Dick Williams as Chairman of the Queensland Building and Construction Commission. Tell me if that is not a conflict; tell me if that is not a massive conflict. They appointed Labor mayor, Jim Soorley, as Chairman of CS Energy. I don't know what Jim thinks about—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>250216</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Watt, on a point of order.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Watt</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>If Senator O'Sullivan had listened to my speech: it was not about the appointment of cronies; it was about conflicts of interest, and he has not disclosed what they are.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>250216</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Watt, that is not a point of order. You know it is not a point of order; it is a debating point. Again, I remind you that you were heard in silence, so please give that same degree of respect to Senator O'Sullivan. You can take the discussion out of this chamber at another time.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'SULLIVAN</name>
    <name.id>247871</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>That seemed to be a little bit thin-skinned about the exposure of some of these well-known facts. They appointed Labor Premier Peter Beattie to head the Commonwealth Games Corporation. What a conflict. They appointed former Labor Treasurer Terry Mackenroth to the board of QSuper. This just goes on and on. I do not have time, because I do not intend to devote the substantive bulk of this speech to these exposures. They appointed former Labor minister Steve Bredhauer to the board of Trade and Investment Queensland. These are appointments that clearly would be in conflict with all the best practices in the appointment of people to these very important positions.</para>
<para>The message that needs to come from here is that this is about a Labor senator who has obviously been selected amongst the ranks of Labor and the Greens to try and lead the charge, and I think that will prove to be a disastrous decision in the fullness of time. There are many of his colleagues who are much better qualified and competent to do this. This is about stopping 44,000 direct jobs that are at the virtual cusp of being shovel-ready in our central Queensland—his central Queensland and my central Queensland. Of course, the report showed that there are some 150,000 jobs related to this. This is in an area that is suffering employment depression. It is being attacked by the Labor Party, who parade themselves as being those who have the interests of working men and women. During the parliament that Senator Watt was a part of and in his previous life as a staffer to a failed Premier, there were 14,000 jobs routed out of this area in my home state of Queensland. There are thousands of empty houses in Mackay, Rockhampton, Gladstone, Gracemere and Emerald—places I am certain Senator Watt would not recognise, notwithstanding that I have offered to take him on a tour of these places, where we will have some public forums.</para>
<para>Our second largest export industry, with 90 per cent of its production exported, is under direct and unprecedented attack by the federal Labor Party and the federal Greens—again, a very tight coalition, like we saw in their previous term of government. We all know how that turned out for the economy of the nation. His own state Labor colleagues this week reported a surplus of some $2.3 billion I think. Where did that come from? That came from the $3.4 billion of royalties generated by the coal industry. This is like chewing your arm off at the wrist. They are resisting the generational opportunity to regenerate Central Queensland. Townsville has nine per cent unemployment in certain age categories. These people would be well placed to take possession of some of these jobs.</para>
<para>There is not a business in Queensland, particularly between Townsville and Gladstone and certainly north of the Tropic of Capricorn to Mackay, that does not rely significantly on this industry. The development of the Galilee Basin is going to give them a brand-new opportunity in life to enhance not only the economy of that region and the economy of the state—administered currently by a Labor government, who are in absolute conflict with this push—but also the national economy.</para>
<para>This is about stopping the coal industry. This is about discarding thousands of existing jobs. This is about preventing the development of thousands more jobs, not just with the development of the Galilee Basin but with all of the things that the Northern Australia Infrastructure Fund is going to bring online over the next decade. It has been doing some fantastic work. It is on the cusp of delivering decisions that will support northern Australia. It defies logic that any Queensland senator would resist these things, would attack these things and would diminish the potential of these things. I just hope that every person over the age of 18 in my home state is watching and listening carefully. I will, to the best of my ability, point them in the right direction.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Budget</title>
          <page.no>3843</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:53</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator POLLEY</name>
    <name.id>e5x</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I think we can all agree that the federal budget was a terrible budget for this country when it comes to our schoolkids, especially in my home state of Tasmania. Those on the other side should be hanging their heads in shame. Look at the cuts that were made: $600 million from TAFE, $3.8 billion from universities and $22 billion from schools. Under the government's new arrangements, Tasmanian schools will lose $85 million over the next two years, and $65 million will be out of the state school system. This is what this government has done.</para>
<para>Yesterday in question time we had Minister Birmingham in here bragging about the allocation to Tasmania. Those opposite have got to be kidding. You really have to be kidding. Those of you who talk to real Tasmanians and go around schools and talk to parents and teachers will understand why they are angry. It was good when I saw Senator Back in here. It will be interesting to hear his contribution when it comes to Catholic schools around this country. He would understand that the cuts that the Catholic Education Commission is going to oversee throughout this country are going to be very detrimental, because most of the time they pick up kids from disadvantaged backgrounds in communities. They are going to be cut. I would have thought, as someone who has been in here on many occasions, he would be in his caucus speaking up and raising his concerns, which I believe he would share.</para>
<para>When you are actually in the community listening, you understand that the cuts that this government is making to education are ripping money away from school kids—not to put in health or education, but to give tax cuts to the big end of town. That is where that money is going. It is taking money from schoolkids; those schoolchildren will miss out on the teachers, the extra one-on-one attention that they need.</para>
<para>It is interesting to have a Tasmanian senator from the other side here. He must be embarrassed, because while we on this side are always working to ensure that we raise the level of education, that our Tasmanian kids get the best opportunities, he is over there as part of a government that is ensuring that those kids will slide backwards. The $85 million that is going to be cut from Tasmanian schools is going to have a real impact on every child in every classroom in every school throughout Tasmania.</para>
<para>This is not about sandstone private schools in Sydney and Melbourne; this government is pitting one school against another. And why are they doing that? Because they have been exposed as using a sham system of allocating funds based on a very dodgy calculator. It is very, very dodgy indeed. If the government thinks that it can blindside teachers and parents in this country, it is wrong. It will not work. Teachers and parents know that when it comes to education, the people they can trust always are a Labour government. Yet again, they have not been disappointed because this government has delivered cuts. Even David Gonski is moving away from this government, because he is embarrassed by what they have done, what they have tried to do, with the Gonski 2.0.</para>
<para>We know that there is already enormous strain on teachers across the country, so these cuts are going to be so detrimental. They are going to have an impact on numeracy, on literacy skills, on reading: the basic things that every child needs to have the best advantage. We know when you have a good education that it ensures that you have greater prosperity. It means that the doors open up for you to follow your own personal goals. A community is always going to be stronger when we invest more in our kids. That is basic. If we want people to go on to have a tertiary education—senators from Tasmania on the other side understand that we have a very low rate of retention of our young people going on to university—then these cuts to universities will not assist in getting more Tasmanians to go on to either TAFE or to university. This is serious. This is really serious. It needs to be exposed. This government needs to be exposed, because every single dollar that it takes away from Tasmanian kids, every single dollar it takes away from Australian kids, is going to have a long-term detrimental impact on our community. It is going to have a long-term economic impact that is not in the nation's interest going forward.</para>
<para>We on this side will always expose those on that side. We could go on talking about the budget cuts around education, around health. We know that this budget has denied any infrastructure spending in Tasmania. It is all right for Senator Duniam to smile, but I would not think that the lack of investment in Tasmania is something to be proud of. In fact, I would be embarrassed—as you should have been with the question that you asked in this place yesterday—because the performance of your minister is one that has not met the level of professionalism or integrity or honesty of an education minister of old. It is really very disappointing that this government has chosen to take away funds from our kids and their futures.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Queen's Birthday Honours</title>
          <page.no>3844</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:59</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SMITH</name>
    <name.id>241710</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>In the short time that is available to me I want to talk about two things that are very close to the heart of Western Australians. Of course, the first is GST distribution reform, but I will not go there. But I would like to touch briefly on those remarkable Western Australians that were honoured on Monday by the Queen's Birthday 2017 Honours List.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator Smith. It being 2 pm, the time for discussion has concluded.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE</title>
        <page.no>3845</page.no>
        <type>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Climate Change</title>
          <page.no>3845</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:00</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to Senator Brandis, the Minister representing the Prime Minister. Yesterday the minister told the Senate:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… what the Turnbull government is committed to doing is to put the climate wars behind us …</para></quote>
<para>Reports today revealed that approximately 30 coalition MPs fought against support for the Finkel review in yesterday's coalition party room, with 10 MPs vehemently opposed to a push away from coal-fired power and about 20 MPs expressing serious misgivings. Isn't it clear that the climate wars the minister referred to are in fact being waged within the coalition party room?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:00</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I will come to the question, but I should say how nice it is to see Senator Farrell in the leader's chair. It's good to see a good old grouper in charge of the show! It could be back in the 1950s with the DLP in the front row and the two old commos behind him—but anyway! There they are, Statler and Waldorf over there!</para>
<para class="italic">Senator Cormann interjecting—</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>As Senator Cormann wisely interjects, we should not believe everything we read in the newspapers—unless, of course, it is <inline font-style="italic">NewsWeekly</inline>; I am sure, Senator Farrell, you and I would both believe everything we read in <inline font-style="italic">NewsWeekly</inline>! I actually happened to be at that meeting yesterday afternoon.</para>
<para class="italic">Senator Farrell interjecting—</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I am about to tell you what happened. I will tell you precisely what happened. We had a very good and intelligent discussion about the Finkel report. That is what we had. My colleague and friend Josh Frydenberg, the Minister for the Environment and Energy, gave a very detailed presentation complete with a slide show explaining the conclusions and the analysis of the Finkel report, and then we had quite a long meeting in which a number of colleagues asked questions about the Finkel report and made some observations about it. And that is the way we do policy in the coalition.</para>
<para>First of all, we find out what the evidence is. Then we engage the relevant experts. Then we publish their findings. Then we have a discussion about the matter so that all members of the coalition party room, representing all the different parts of Australia, can have their views heard. That is precisely what we did. It was an extremely useful exercise. I even learned some things that I did not know before, and I am delighted we had such a good discussion.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Farrell, a supplementary question?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:03</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you; I have a supplementary question. One coalition MP referred to yesterday's party room meeting as 'a slaughter', with another suggesting that it had 'shades of 2009 about it'. Is the Prime Minister concerned that ideologues on the far Right of his party room will again depose him, or will he yet again simply roll over to their demands?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:03</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Not in the least. Not even slightly. What the Prime Minister is concerned to do and what he did last night was to chair a useful, constructive discussion led by Mr Frydenberg, who is a very accomplished expert in this field, based on the Finkel report, which was prepared by Australia's Chief Scientist—not, by the way, at the request of this government but at the request of COAG, of governments of both political persuasions, of all the governments of Australia. And we had a discussion about the Finkel report. Questions were asked of Mr Frydenberg by a number of colleagues. A number of different perspectives were brought to bear. Many people spoke and, as a result of that discussion, everyone in the room, I would make bold to say, felt they had a better understanding of the issues than they had when they began. That is the way the policy of the coalition— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Farrell, a final supplementary question.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:04</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>This morning Treasurer Morrison told the ABC that linking the party room debate to the Prime Minister's leadership is premature. So when will it be time to discuss the Prime Minister's leadership? Is next week too soon?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:05</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Farrell, what we saw last night from the Prime Minister was all about leadership—it was all about the Prime Minister leading the coalition in an intelligent, fully informed debate about a very difficult policy area which your side of politics has squibbed for years. Let us not forget, Senator Farrell, that you have proposed these unachievable emissions reduction targets with no plan, no policy whatsoever, to show how Australia will get there. We, in the coalition, are committed to resolving the 'trilemma' of affordable prices, security of supply and fidelity to our international commitments. We can do all three at once and, in making the policy choices we have to make, we will be informed by the wisdom of Dr Finkel.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>National Security</title>
          <page.no>3846</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:06</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BACK</name>
    <name.id>J7Q</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I have a serious question for the Attorney-General. Can the Attorney-General update the Senate on what the government is doing to counter the threat of foreign interference?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:06</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Yes, I can. Thank you for that question and for your long and thoughtful contribution for years as chairman of the Foreign Affairs and Defence Legislation Committee, which has been seized with this issue, of course, for a long time.</para>
<para>I have already observed that the threat of political interference by foreign intelligence services and their agents is a problem of the highest order, and it is getting worse. Those views were endorsed by no less a person than General Jim Clapper at the Press Club only last week. Espionage and covert foreign interference by nation states is a global reality which can cause immense harm to our national sovereignty, to the safety of our people, to our economic prosperity and to the very integrity of our democracy.</para>
<para>ASIO was originally established to investigate foreign intelligence activity, and a significant proportion of its resources continue to be dedicated to this work. But we must stay ahead of the game, and we are. So in May of this year the Prime Minister wrote to me asking me to undertake a comprehensive review of Australia's espionage and foreign interference laws. That review was already underway. As part of that process, I and those who advise me are considering the adequacy and the effectiveness of the espionage and treason offences in the Commonwealth Criminal Code; the merit of creating specific foreign interference offences; relevant international frameworks, including foreign regimes including the American Foreign Agents Registration Act—or FARA Act; and whether there are complementary provisions that would strengthen our agency's ability to investigate and prosecute acts of espionage and foreign interference. Bound up in all of that, of course, are particular types of foreign interference, including the acceptance of money from foreign donors, to which I will return.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Back, a supplementary question.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:08</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BACK</name>
    <name.id>J7Q</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank the Attorney-General for his answer and ask if the Attorney-General can outline what the government is doing to respond to the threat of foreign political influence, especially through foreign donations.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:08</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>What we propose to do, Senator Back, is ban them. The Joint Standing Committee on Electoral Matters examined the issue of foreign political donations and the desirability of regulating or prohibiting them in its interim report, which was delivered in March of this year. In that report, JSCEM recommended that foreign political donations be banned. The Prime Minister, when the JSCEM interim report was delivered, announced that the government would be acting to do so.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Farrell</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>When?</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I can tell you, Senator Farrell, that we will be introducing legislation this year for that very purpose. The Special Minister of State, Senator Ryan, and I have already been in discussion with the Solicitor-General, Dr Donaghue, in relation to certain constitutional issues. I expect that Senator Ryan will be in a position to introduce the bill in the spring session. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Cameron</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>What about brown paper bags?</para>
<para class="italic">Senator Ian Macdonald interjecting—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! Senator Macdonald and Senator Cameron! Senator Back—a final supplementary question?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:10</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BACK</name>
    <name.id>J7Q</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I do have one, thank you. Is the Attorney-General aware of alternative responses to the issue of foreign political influence?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:10</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator Back. I am certainly aware of the way in which the Australian Labor Party has dealt with the issue—indeed, have dismissed the issue. Of course, as we know, the most infamous recent example of foreign political donations being used to buy political influence is our colleague Senator Sam Dastyari over there, who winks at me across the chamber. No, Senator Dastyari—it is not a joke! It is not a joke, and your conduct is not a joke either.</para>
<para>Senator Dastyari was very briefly benched over there in the nether regions of the Senate by his leader, Mr Shorten, and a matter of months later rehabilitated so that he now sits as part of the Labor Party's Senate leadership team. That makes a mockery of the Labor Party's concern about this issue. It is an absolute mockery.</para>
<para>Senator Dastyari, I like you personally, but what you did to compromise the Australian Labor Party and to compromise yourself was a disgrace! <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Energy</title>
          <page.no>3848</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:11</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to Senator Brandis, the Minister representing the Prime Minister. Yesterday the Minister for Finance said in relation to the Chief Scientist's review into the future security of the national electricity market:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… the price of electricity has been going up in recent times. It is projected to continue to go up and up and up if we do nothing.</para></quote>
<para>Is the Minister for Finance correct?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:12</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Yes, the Minister for Finance is correct. That is why the government is taking action.</para>
<para>The government is taking action, and that is why we discussed the matter at great length, as I explained to you in answer to Senator Farrell's question earlier on. Doing nothing is not an option. At least, surely, all of us in this chamber can agree to that one proposition? If we do nothing, electricity prices and energy prices generally will continue to rise. So, whichever party may be in government at any given time, they must take action and they must take action without further delay. This government has shown that it is up for that challenge. First of all, what we have done, along with the other COAG jurisdictions, was to commission Alan Finkel, the Chief Scientist, to produce a report. When the report was received by government it was immediately made public. That was last Friday. And we arranged for there to be a briefing on the Finkel report by the minister, Mr Frydenberg, yesterday. Following that briefing, we had a long and interesting discussion in our party room.</para>
<para>The government will move forward on this matter, because to do nothing is not an option. Therefore, delay is not an option. As I said in answer to your colleague, in the policy choices we will make we will be informed by those three objectives of keeping electricity prices affordable; ensuring reliability of supply, so we do not have writ large across the country the fiasco that the South Australian Labor government subjected us to when the entire state was blacked out; and we will keep our international emissions reduction commitments as well.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Gallagher, a supplementary question.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:14</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank the Attorney for the answer. Given that the coalition party room met yesterday morning for two hours and for almost three hours yesterday evening, following this meeting can the minister now outline a government position on the Finkel review and, specifically, any concrete actions the government will be taking?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:14</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Well, Senator Gallagher, it was a long meeting and do you know why it was such a long meeting? Because there are so many of us—there are so many of us in the coalition party room—</para>
<para>Government senators interjecting—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order on my right!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Do you know what all of my colleagues have in common? Every last one of them is very, very intelligent and every last one of them had a very intelligent contribution to make. So we did have a long meeting; we are glad we had a long meeting. It was a meeting in which a variety of points of view were fleshed out and a variety of hard questions were put to Mr Frydenberg which he answered with his characteristic aplomb and which will inform the decisions the Turnbull government makes to ensure that we do not have, as I said a moment ago, the fiasco that a Labor government in South Australia inflicted on that state—of the state being blacked out because the policy choices were the wrong choices. We will keep prices affordable, we will keep supply secure and we will honour our international obligations.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Gallagher, a final supplementary question.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:15</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Yesterday you, as the Attorney-General, boasted in relation to the Finkel review: 'We want to put a stop to this area of policy paralysis'. Isn't it clear that the Prime Minister is so weak and the government so divided that the policy paralysis will continue imposing yet more costs on Australian consumers?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:16</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I do not know why you ask these questions, Senator Gallagher, because they are so preposterous. Let us get this straight, through you, Mr President: Senator Gallagher, you chastise a government for having a discussion about an expert report. That is regarded by the Australian Labor Party as a gotcha moment, is it? The government is having a long and detailed and thorough discussion, engaging all the lively and intelligent minds of the coalition, to discuss an expert report, led by a minister, Mr Josh Frydenberg, who is better informed about this area of policy than virtually anyone else in this parliament with the possible exception of the Prime Minister. That is what we did. That is the way the coalition makes policy: we understand the issues, we seek expert advice, we have a thorough discussion, we decide what the right policy choices are and then, having informed ourselves and having had a thorough discussion, we deliver the right outcomes for the Australian people.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Asylum Seekers</title>
          <page.no>3849</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:17</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKIM</name>
    <name.id>JKM</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to Minister Cash, representing the immigration minister. Minister, I refer you to the immigration minister's decision to settle a class action based on the illegal detention and failure of duty of care brought by 1,905 Manus Island detainees—people who have suffered a shocking loss of their freedoms, who have had their families torn apart and who have lost all hope for the future because of decisions taken by you and your government and your Labor predecessors. People have died, been seriously injured, come under machine gun fire and suffered permanent harm because of choices made by the Labor and Liberal Parties. Isn't today's settlement an admission that you are responsible for the ongoing harm of the detainees on Manus Island and Nauru?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:18</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CASH (</name>
    <name.id>I0M</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>— ) ( ): Thank you, Senator McKim, for the question. In response to your question the answer is: no, settlement is in no way any admission at all of liability.</para>
<para>It is opportune, though, given that Senator McKim has given me the opportunity to do this, to remind the Australian people of exactly why today's settlement occurred and the events that actually brought it into play. Senator McKim, let me tell you exactly. When the former Howard government lost office in 2007, do you know how many people there were in detention? Colleagues, would you like to have a guess? Less than a handful, Senator McKim. Do you know what the detention network—</para>
<para class="italic"> Senator McKim interjecting —</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! A point of order, Senator Hanson?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Hanson</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr President, I am very interested in hearing the answer to this, but I can't hear it with the interjection by Senator McKim.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I will remind all senators, but particularly Senator McKim—you were getting loud—not to interject during the answer. I invite the minister to continue.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CASH</name>
    <name.id>I0M</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>As I was stating, the detention network was costing less than $100 million a year, but as a result of policies that you supported, Senator McKim, when Senator Hanson-Young was the relevant shadow minister—let me assure you that you are responsible for what has occurred leading up to today's settlement. You come in here full of fake rage. You come in here talking about people who have lost their lives. Well, under policies that Senator McKim supported, thousands of people lost their lives. You are directly responsible—through you, Mr President—for thousands and thousands of children risking their lives on boats and ending up behind bars. So please do not come in here with your fake rage and your sense of moral superiority when you yourself and the Australian Greens are responsible for what occurred.</para>
<para>Government senators interjecting—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! Senator McKim on a supplementary question.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:20</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKIM</name>
    <name.id>JKM</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, if you are so confident in your absolute fiction that you are not responsible for the illegal detention and failure of duty of care to these men, why did you agree to settle? Is it not the case that you settled because you desperately wanted to keep the horrors and the torture that you are inflicting on our fellow human beings on Manus Island hidden from the Australian people? Is that not why you settled?</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Before I call the minister, could I advise senators asking questions and the ministers answering questions not to personally direct the questions or the answers to each other. They must be directed to me, not through me but to me. Minister, you have the call.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:21</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CASH</name>
    <name.id>I0M</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator McKim, in answer to your question, the answer is no. You would not be aware because, quite frankly, I am sure—through you, Mr President—that the Australian Greens could not care less. But the Commonwealth is required by the Legal Services Directions to endeavour 'to avoid, prevent or limit the scope of legal proceedings'. On this side of the chamber, we take responsible action in relation to these matters. But again, Senator McKim referred to facts. Senator McKim, these are the facts—about which you, like an ostrich, buried your head and the Australian Greens heads in the sand—there were four people in detention in 2007 when the Australian Labor Party with the support of the Australian Greens came to office; none of them were children. You are directly responsible because of policies you supported for thousands of deaths and thousands of children in detention. Stop your faux outrage.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator McKim on a final supplementary question.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:22</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKIM</name>
    <name.id>JKM</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Now that responsibility has been rightly accepted by the government for the people that you are detaining and torturing on Manus Island and Nauru, will you now do the right thing and bring them all—men, women and children that you have illegally detained and failed—here to Australia where we can look after them, and where they can make a positive contribution to our country?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:22</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CASH</name>
    <name.id>I0M</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I completely reject almost every single word and the premise of your question, because the Australian government has done the right thing.</para>
<para class="italic">Senator McKim interjecting—</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CASH</name>
    <name.id>I0M</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>We did the right thing when we took office in 2013. How did we do the right thing? We implemented policies to restore security to our borders. We are very proud of that. We will never resile from that.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>On a point of order, Senator Hinch.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Hinch</name>
    <name.id>2O4</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr President, I rise on the same point of order as Senator Hanson. This goes on every day in question time. Have an adjournment speech.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator Hinch. Again, I remind senators not to interject when the minister is giving her answer or when any minister is giving an answer.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CASH</name>
    <name.id>I0M</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>As I was saying, this government has done the right thing. We will continue to do the right thing by the Australian people and we will not be stopped in our efforts to ensure that at all times the No. 1 priority of the Commonwealth government—something, unfortunately, Senator McKim—through you, Mr President—that the Australian Greens could not care less about, the security of the nation and the security of our borders. Any person who comes to this place and does not believe that is not the No. 1 priority of any federal government, quite frankly, should leave.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'Sullivan</name>
    <name.id>247871</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I did not want to interrupt the minister on a point of order, but Senator McKim called out to the chamber that this government tolerated the torture of these people. I am a part of this government and I resent that remark. He can either qualify it where I am concerned, or withdraw it on behalf of us all.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! There is no point of order, Senator O'Sullivan. Senator McKim, there is no point of order, so I do not want to listen to a response.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Schools</title>
          <page.no>3852</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:24</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKENZIE</name>
    <name.id>207825</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is for the Minister for Education and Training, Senator Simon Birmingham. Can the minister inform the Senate how the government's fair, real-Gonski needs based school funding reform is receiving expert support for its passage through this parliament?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:25</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator McKenzie, the Chair of the Senate Education and Employment Legislation Committee, for her question and for her deep interest and really hard work in this policy area.</para>
<para>Of course, Senator McKenzie, in terms of those who have come out endorsing and supporting the Turnbull government's reforms, we should start with the Gonski panellists themselves. On the day of the announcement we had David Gonski out there saying how very pleased he was that the Turnbull government was accepting the fundamental recommendations of his report. Secondly, we saw Bill Scales on <inline font-style="italic">7.30</inline> indicate that he believed that the criticisms and concerns that some had expressed were not well founded and that funding was being directed to places of high need. Thirdly, this week we have had Ken Boston come out and say, 'There are no grounds for opposition to the schools funding bill'—no grounds, he said. He said, 'It will be a tragedy if the school funding bill is voted down'—a tragedy, he said. Fourthly, we have Kathryn Greiner out there today saying, 'It would be a disaster for Australian education if this doesn't pass.' Kathryn Greiner went on to highlight, as she said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">This is the first time a government in this country has drawn a line in the sand, removed the funding anomalies and got everybody on the same page.</para></quote>
<para>Kathryn Greiner went on and said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Gonski 2.0 delivers what the Gonski report wanted: an accountable, transparent, equitable, sector-blind funding formula.</para></quote>
<para>Not one member of Labor's hand-picked Gonski panel, not two members of Labor's hand-picked Gonski panel, not three members of the hand-picked Labor panel, but four members of the Gonski panel hand-picked by the previous Labor government have urged for this legislation to pass. Yet still the Labor Party stands in its way.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator McKenzie, a supplementary question.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:27</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKENZIE</name>
    <name.id>207825</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Can the minister inform the Senate how the government's needs based funding reforms will lead to improved educational performance?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:27</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>There are a range of different elements in terms of the proposals. Firstly, we are going to stop the cost shifting and ensure that, where additional funding flows to states and territories, the states do not withdraw that funding like they have in the past but we actually guarantee that it is real additional investment and support into Australian schools.</para>
<para>Secondly, we will make sure that the funding goes to where it is needed most—that the schools who deserve the greatest additional support and who need the greatest support are the ones who receive the greatest support and funding growth under our reforms.</para>
<para>Thirdly, and perhaps most importantly, we will make sure the funding is then well invested—that we help schools and school systems to appreciate what it is that they can do to make the greatest difference, to strengthen teaching and school leadership, to develop the essential knowledge and skills that are required, to improve student participation and parental outcome and to build better evidence and transparency. That is what the next Gonski review is going to help to do: frame the best way to use this investment to get the best results for Australian schools and school students. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator McKenzie, do you have a final supplementary question?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:28</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKENZIE</name>
    <name.id>207825</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I do. Before I ask my supplementary question I want to say 'Many happy returns' to the minister. Here is a bit of a birthday present: is the minister aware of any alternative proposals for school funding?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:28</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator McKenzie, for your best wishes. All we can see from those opposite in terms of alternative policy is that they want to keep 27 different special deals. They want to maintain the disparity where one state is treated differently to another state. They want to maintain the disparity where one non-government schooling sector is treated separately to another non-government schooling sector. They are committed to special deals on the other side because, I guess, it is in their DNA from their union background, going around and doing the types of sneaky special deals that Mr Shorten used to do when it came to penalty rates when he was back in the union movement. For them it is all about special deals. For us it is about, as the Grattan Institute has said, good policy in the broad public interest. That is what our school funding reforms deliver: good policy in the broad public interest that puts Australian schools and their needs first and foremost.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Breast Cancer</title>
          <page.no>3853</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:30</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GRIFF</name>
    <name.id>76760</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to Senator Nash, the Minister representing the Minister for Health. Under the External Breast Prostheses Reimbursement Program, women who have had breast surgery as result of cancer are able to claim a reimbursement of up to $400 for each breast prosthesis every two years. The recent prosthesis inquiry heard evidence that this initial up-front cost is very much unaffordable for low-income breast cancer survivors. Is the minister aware that breast cancer survivors are being forced to go without these prostheses because they are unable to meet the initial up-front costs which are ultimately reimbursed through the program?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp> (New South Wales—Deputy Leader of The Nationals, Minister for Regional Development, Minister for Local Government and Territories and Minister for Regional Communications) (14:30):</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator NASH</name>
    <name.id>e5g</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Griff for his question and for some advance notice of it. I do appreciate his genuine concern for women who are experiencing breast cancer, as I expect everybody in this chamber does. I think all of us right around this chamber—certainly many of us—have been touched by family members, relatives and friends that have experienced breast cancer, and I do appreciate his genuine concern for this.</para>
<para>I am advised that a recent evaluation of the national External Breast Prostheses Reimbursement Program was commissioned by the Department of Health, to consider whether the program does remain appropriate, effective and efficient, and to identify potential efficiencies or improvements to the program. The results of that evaluation are overwhelmingly positive. The program participants reported that typically the program had impacted them directly by improving their overall quality of life. However, I am also advised that the evaluation did note that program access for women in financial hardship, that the senator has indicated, or on fixed incomes, was raised by stakeholders as a challenge. As the government, we are going to consider ways that we can improve access to this program. Senator Griff quite rightly has raised an issue that has been of some concern to people that he has impacted with, and the Minister for Health has also informed me that he is more than happy to meet the senator to discuss the matter further.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Griff, a supplementary question.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:32</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GRIFF</name>
    <name.id>76760</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Can the minister advise whether, in the meantime, there is any issue with reducing the up-front out-of-pocket cost, so it is substantially less than the $400?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:32</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator NASH</name>
    <name.id>e5g</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I am not aware of any current consideration to date over immediate changes to the program in relation to the funding arrangements that the senator refers to. But I am more than happy to take that on notice. Again, I can indicate to the senator that the minister is very happy to meet him to discuss this. I think it is important to note though that over 90 per cent of women have been able to access their reimbursements in a very timely manner. I think it is about a 10-day turnaround done through electronic fund transfer to be able to recoup that funding. And I think it is important that we note that for the majority of claimants this has worked well. But indeed, as I indicated, I note the issue that the senator has raised and will certainly be facilitating a meeting, if the senator so desires, with the Minister for Health.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Griff, a final supplementary question.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:33</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GRIFF</name>
    <name.id>76760</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Minister. I very much look forward to having that meeting. In the meantime, can you confirm whether other external prostheses are able to be obtained by patients without the need for up-front and sometimes cost prohibitive payments? And if so, what are the reasons for treating breast prostheses differently to such prosthetic devices?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:33</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator NASH</name>
    <name.id>e5g</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I do not have advice on those particular circumstances that the senator has raised, but I am happy to take that on notice and provide it to him.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Media</title>
          <page.no>3854</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:34</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SMITH</name>
    <name.id>241710</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister for Communications and the Arts, Senator Fifield. Can the minister share with the Senate what the Turnbull government is doing to protect Australian jobs in the media industry, particularly across regional Australia?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:34</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Smith for his question and also for his strong interest in ensuring we have strong Australian media voices. Colleagues would be aware that the Ten network has announced that it will be entering into voluntary administration. This is a difficult day for the staff at Network Ten, but this announcement today should serve as a wake-up call for those opposite, who oppose comprehensive media reform. All of us in this place should be concerned that a major Australian media organisation is facing this sort of difficulty and this sort of challenge. The government has been warning for quite some time that Australian media organisations face challenges and face unprecedented competition, and need to be unshackled so they are in the best position to compete with new media entrants. The response of those opposite to the media reforms that have been in this parliament for the best part of 18 months has been to seek to delay and frustrate them.</para>
<para>As colleagues would be aware, in the budget the government announced a comprehensive and holistic media reform package, which will be introduced into the House of Representatives tomorrow. It is a package that is unabashedly pro Australian media. It is a package that seeks to provide a shot in the arm for Australian media and to give them a fighting chance. While we might not always agree with what those in the gallery write and print and blog and post and stream, what they do is important and it is one of the important underpinnings of Australian democracy.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Smith, a supplementary question.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:36</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SMITH</name>
    <name.id>241710</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Can the minister explain to the Senate why removing the two-out-of-three rule is particularly important to enhance the viability of Australian media organisations?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:36</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>A core part of our earlier reform package and of the package being introduced tomorrow is the abolition of the antiquated, outdated two-out-of-three rule, which was designed in an era before the internet existed. It was designed in the 1980s. It does not reflect the world that we live in. That media rule constrains the options available to Australian media organisations. It prevents many of them from configuring themselves in the ways that will best support their businesses. I must say, Paul Anderson, the CEO of Channel 10 for the last 18 months, has been calling for the abolition of the two-out-of-three rule to give his organisation a fighting chance.</para>
<para>Mr President, you and colleagues need not be worried about diversity, because we will maintain the one-to-a-market rule, the two-to-a-market rule, the five-four rule and the ACCC competition provisions; and, also in terms of diversity, let us not forget that we will still have the SBS and we will still have the ABC.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Smith, a final supplementary question.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:37</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SMITH</name>
    <name.id>241710</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Is the minister aware of any alternative plans for media reform in Australia?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:37</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I am not. There is only one media reform in town, and that is that which was announced by the government in the budget. That is that which will be introduced into the other place tomorrow. This is a package that enjoys the unprecedented support of the Australian media sector, by which I mean Seven, Nine, Ten, WIN, Prime, Southern Cross Austereo, News Ltd, Fairfax, ASTRA, Commercial Radio Australia and Free TV. I think they might have some idea about what is in the best long-term interests of the Australian media industry.</para>
<para>But I must say I was a little perplexed by Ms Rowland from the other place, who, when interviewed by Kieran Gilbert, when he said, 'With all these organisations supporting this, shouldn't you?' said, 'Well, the only reason those media organisations are supporting this plan is because there's something in it for all of them'—precisely! That is the point.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Religious Advisory Committee to the Services</title>
          <page.no>3856</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:38</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BERNARDI</name>
    <name.id>G0D</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister for Defence. Minister, it was drawn to my attention that in February 2015 Imam Saleem of the Religious Advisory Council to the Services signed a joint statement which defended Hizb ut-Tahrir, a radical Islamic group which has called for the overthrow of democracy and the imposition of a global Islamic caliphate under sharia law. How can the minister justify the continuing employment of Imam Saleem with the Australian defence forces, given his support for such un-Australian and anti-democratic principles?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:39</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PAYNE</name>
    <name.id>M56</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Bernardi for his question. As we all know, the Australian Defence Force is committed to providing support to its members and seeking out information on non-Christian faiths, in the very broad, to improve our cultural understanding. Of course, more broadly, any Australian citizen and permanent resident eligible for Australian citizenship can apply to join the ADF. We are also committed to providing support to members of all faith groups, therefore—including the Muslim faith. Diversity and inclusion are fundamental elements of modern Australia and of the ADF. Employing personnel and advisers with different cultural and linguistic backgrounds does increase Defence's capabilities and, therefore, its combat power—quite literally. Through diversity we gain additional skills and varied perspectives which are needed to conduct our effective operations in the modern combat environment. We are literally doing that every day at the moment in Iraq in particular, and in Afghanistan as well.</para>
<para>Sheikh Saleem, who is a Muslim member of the Religious Advisory Committee to the Services, was appointed on 5 June 2015—an appointment which precedes my commencement in this role. It is not—and I think it is important to make this clear—what has been misconstrued in certain areas as a Defence Imam. That is not a position that exists. The Religious Advisory Committee to the Services serves as the link between the Australian Defence Force and the governing bodies of churches and denominational groups on religious matters. It is comprised of non-uniformed representatives at Bishop or equivalent levels, depending on the faith, and they do not speak on behalf of Defence. While the religious advisory committee plays an important role— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Bernardi, a supplementary question.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:41</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BERNARDI</name>
    <name.id>G0D</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question was not about the role but about the person holding the role and the suitability of that person, given their views. I would ask the minister to address that question. Also, given that Sheikh Saleem has previously advocated for a system of Islamic sharia law to operate in parallel with Australian family law, I ask the minister to explain how this view is compatible with Australia's fundamental democratic principle of equality before the law?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:42</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PAYNE</name>
    <name.id>M56</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>It is fair to say that the religious advisory committee is, as I said, made up of representatives of a number of different faiths with considerable breadth of opinion. I do not agree with the opinions of every member of the religious advisory committee. It plays an important role in advising the Department of Defence. It does not provide chaplaincy or play any role in Defence policy formulation. Some of the commentary that has been disseminated has considerably misrepresented Sheikh Saleem and the appropriateness of his appointment, it is fair to say. When the decision was made, I am advised that it was a considered decision by the Australian government to expand the size and diversity of the religious advisory committee. Sheikh Saleem is a well respected leader in the Victorian Islamic community who is well known not just to the Commonwealth government but to the Victorian government as well. He is a member of both the Australian Federation of Islamic Councils and the Australian National Imams Council, and he may support— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Bernardi, your final supplementary question.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:43</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BERNARDI</name>
    <name.id>G0D</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Sheikh Saleem supports Hizb ut-Tahrir, has defended Hizb ut-Tahrir, supports Islamic sharia law and was previously associated with an organisation that opposed support to forces fighting Islamic state, an enemy of Australia. Will the minister agree that Sheikh Saleem's views and beliefs are wholly incompatible with those of the Australian Defence Force, and that, in the national interest, his employment should be terminated immediately?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:43</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PAYNE</name>
    <name.id>M56</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>What I was saying, in response to Senator Bernardi's previous question, is that indeed Sheikh Saleem may support views that are expressed by the organisations of which he is a member. He has some of his own. Clearly, I do not necessarily agree with them all, and Defence does not necessarily agree with them all. We, of course, support his right to express those views, but we do not always agree with them. He is not a member of the Australian Defence Force. He is engaged in extensive chaplaincy and interpreter work for the Department of Immigration and Border Protection, for the Victorian prison system, for Victoria Police and for the Australian Federal Police. He has worked with the Commonwealth Attorney-General's Department as we endeavour to engage with the Australian Islamic community to counter Islamic extremism and protect at-risk youth.</para>
<para>If there is any further information that Senator Bernardi wishes to bring to my attention, then I am, of course, very happy to hear it, but it is part of the diversity of the system that ensures that we have a representation broadly across all faiths in Australia that the religious advisory committee fulfils.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Energy</title>
          <page.no>3857</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:44</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Prime Minister, Senator Brandis. This morning, influential Liberal member Craig Kelly said on ABC Radio, in regard to the modelling underpinning the Finkel review's findings on electricity prices, that the baseline findings were critical. Is the government fully aware of the assumptions on which these baseline findings were based and were they made available to the party room?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:45</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Cameron, I think you are referring to the discussion we had yesterday in the government party room about the Finkel report, are you not? I know that Mr Craig Kelly has expressed some views. He has expressed them within the forums of the coalition and he has expressed them publicly as well. He is a voice in this debate, and we are glad to hear his views. I know you old socialists find this very hard to understand, but we in the Liberal Party and in the National Party—</para>
<para>Opposition senators interjecting—</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>You 'Corbynites'! We in the Liberal Party actually think that any discussion is improved by hearing a variety of opinions. That is why Mr Kelly's views, like the views of each and every one of my coalition colleagues in this discussion, are a welcome contribution. As a result of that discussion—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Cameron</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr President, I rise on a point of order on relevance. There were two questions asked: one was whether the government was fully aware of the assumptions; the second was were the baseline findings made available to the party room. The minister has not gone near any of those questions.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator Cameron. I will remind the minister of the questions.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>So, Senator Cameron, Mr Kelly's views are very welcome in this debate. Now, you raised two particular matters. What I can tell you, Senator Cameron, is that the Finkel report was published when the government received it. So it is a public document. The Finkel report contains a great deal of analysis and charts of tables and various other expositions of that analysis, which the minister, Mr Frydenberg, took our party room through yesterday morning, and that included the issue of the baseline. Of course the baseline is an important issue; we are aware of that. Senator Cameron, there was discussion about all of these issues. There was a briefing by Mr Frydenberg about all of these issues and there were contributions about a variety of issues, including that one, because, as I said to your acting leader, that is the way we do policy. We have a free and open discussion. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Cameron, a supplementary question.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:47</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I would like to ask the minister: does the government stand by the modelling used by Dr Finkel and the findings of his review?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:48</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The government regards the Finkel report as an important contribution to the discussion. We are one of the governments, along with all of the other members of the Council of Australian Governments, that initiated the Finkel report. So we have received the Finkel report, and now we are discussing it. We have not made any final decisions yet. But we are better informed in making those decisions, as, by the way, should every state and territory government be, by the fact that Dr Finkel, an eminent Australian scientist, has done this body of work.</para>
<para>But, as I have told your acting leader and your colleague Senator Gallagher over there already, when the government makes its policy choices, informed by the Finkel report, those choices will be guided by three principles: affordability; security of supply; and fidelity to our international commitments on lower emissions. We will be guided by the Finkel report, but those will be our outcomes. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Cameron, a final supplementary question.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:49</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>One coalition MP told <inline font-style="italic">The Australian</inline> last night, 'Finkel in its current form is dead'. Does the minister agree? Has the far Right of the coalition party room, yet again, nobbled the Prime Minister's plans?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:49</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I suppose that, if you spend your entire life sunk in conspiracy theories and taking fright at shadows, then you can easily be frightened by shibboleths like that. No, Senator Cameron, not at all; I am not for a moment aware of any coalition member who has that view. I notice that you are not putting a name to this person; you are not quoting the source of your report. What you have said is absolute nonsense, Senator Cameron, I must say.</para>
<para>We will be guided by the Finkel report. We are considering the Finkel report. The study of this issue, not only by the government but by your side of politics too, frankly, should be improved by the body of work that Dr Finkel has done. When we make our policy choices we will not have a South Australian fiasco, like the South Australian Labor government, because we will ensure security of the supply, affordability, and fidelity to our international commitments.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Energy</title>
          <page.no>3859</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:50</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'SULLIVAN</name>
    <name.id>247871</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the great champion for resources and northern Australia, Minister Canavan. What action has the government taken to ensure the security of Australia's domestic gas supply?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:51</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CANAVAN</name>
    <name.id>245212</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator O'Sullivan for his question, as I know he realises, as many do in this chamber, that gas markets in this country are undergoing significant change. We are about to become the world's largest exporter of gas, an enormous turnaround in just less than 10 years. That is putting some pressure on gas markets in this country. I know many of us here in this chamber would be hearing from businesses about the impacts of price and availability of gas, as I was myself a few months ago in north-east Victoria with Senator McKenzie. We visited a range of businesses, including Uncle Tobys in Wahgunyah. They told us about the big increases in prices they are experiencing. The government has heard those issues.</para>
<para>We also received a report in March from the Australian Energy Market Operator describing that shortfalls are emerging in gas markets. The very next week we convened a meeting with the gas industry and with the Prime Minister to discuss those matters. At that meeting we got a commitment that gas would be made available at times of peak electricity demand, as, at particular times of peak demand in electricity markets, gas is needed to keep the lights on. Over the last few months, after further discussion with the gas industry about getting more supply of gas, we have determined to introduce regulations to license the export of gas in this country. It is a drastic action for a government to take. It is one we have not taken lightly, but we have done so, keeping in mind the importance of jobs here in this country, industry in this country and affordable energy in this country as well.</para>
<para>We are determined to make sure that Australian consumers of gas pay no more than what is reflected on international markets. We can have both a strong export market for gas and affordable gas in this country. Last week we published draft regulations, some explanatory statements, and guidelines that will govern the implementation of our Australian domestic gas security mechanism. It will be in place by 1 July. We are currently consulting with industry about those measures.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator O'Sullivan, a supplementary question.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:53</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'SULLIVAN</name>
    <name.id>247871</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Can the minister explain how the proposed gas export licensing regime is expected to operate?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:53</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CANAVAN</name>
    <name.id>245212</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>As I was discussing last week, we issued the draft regulations in regard to those measures we are taking. We are focused on solutions to this issue. These are solutions that are significant. They are significant changes to the way we regulate gas in this country. These regulations are intended to be temporary. The long term does need more gas supply to come onto the market, but we have put these measures in place in draft form for five years, with a sunset clause after five years and a review after two. They are targeted at the problem we are facing, which is a shortfall of gas, as was identified by the Australian Energy Market Operator.</para>
<para>The implementation of these guidelines and licensing will only be done with consultation with AEMO and the ACCC about the potential size of the shortfall. We will try to recover that shortfall from those producers who are not net contributors to our domestic market, targeting the issue we face and making sure that there is gas available to protect Australian jobs and make energy affordable for all Australians.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator O'Sullivan, a final supplementary question.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:54</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'SULLIVAN</name>
    <name.id>247871</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>What are the risks and challenges facing the implementation of the gas export licensing system?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:54</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CANAVAN</name>
    <name.id>245212</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I do welcome the support we have received from I think all sides of politics on this particular measure. As I mentioned, I think we all recognise it is a major issue for our country; however, it is complicated by the fact that we do have state and territory governments locking up gas supplies in this country. The only long-term way to deliver affordable gas in this country is to develop gas in this country. For those who are concerned about the price, affordability and availability of gas in this country, please do not come in here and start talking about how we should shut down gas developments while at the same time expressing crocodile tears for those businesses and industries that do not have enough gas at the moment.</para>
<para>We have to make sure that we are determined to supply affordable gas energy in this country, and that means making decisions to develop gas in Victoria, making sure that we do not ban techniques that have been used for more than 100 years, like the Victorian government has done, and making sure that we do not put moratoriums on the Northern Territory, where there are enormous gas resources available. We want to achieve affordable energy in this country for Australians, but to do so we have to develop our resources.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Energy</title>
          <page.no>3860</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:55</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator KIM CARR</name>
    <name.id>AW5</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the minister representing the Prime Minister. I refer the minister to the modelling report released last night that underpins the Finkel review. This report states that there is an added risk premium on new generation investment in the business-as-usual case. For example, new coal investment was assumed to have a four per cent additional risk premium compared to new renewable investment. As the self-declared champions of coal, is the government aware that its own policies are increasing the cost of investment, including in coal generation?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:56</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Carr, no, I am not familiar with the document released last night to which you have referred, because I have been doing other things in the meantime. But, Senator Carr, no doubt the considerations in that document will be among the many considerations the government takes into account as we consider in a careful and methodical way the right mix of policies to secure an affordable, reliable energy supply for Australia that is consistent with our international commitments to lower emissions. So, Senator Carr, thank you for drawing my attention to the document. No doubt I will find it very interesting reading, and no doubt it will be taken into account.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Carr, a supplementary question.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:56</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator KIM CARR</name>
    <name.id>AW5</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Given the importance of the modelling that underpinned the Finkel report, I am surprised that the minister is not familiar with it. In the business-as-usual case, the modelling report states: 'It is assumed that all coal-fired operators are not willing to invest in half-life retrofits.' Doesn't this demonstrate that the government's policy paralysis is undermining investment in power generation?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:57</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Carr, it is not at all obvious to me that that conclusion follows from the sentence you have quoted. But, nevertheless, I will study the document, as no doubt will the Prime Minister, Mr Frydenberg and all of my colleagues, and we will draw what conclusions are appropriate from the work contained therein.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Carr, a final supplementary question.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:57</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator KIM CARR</name>
    <name.id>AW5</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, was the government party room briefed on the modelling assumptions that underpin the Finkel review in yesterday's marathon party meetings? In particular, are government MPs aware that the Finkel review makes it clear that their government is actually undermining the very generation those opposite say they want to defend?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:58</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Carr, I can assure you, as I have assured your acting leader and several of your colleagues today, that we had an extremely thorough briefing from the minister, Mr Frydenberg—a very thorough briefing indeed—and, following that briefing, we had a very thorough and instructive discussion. At the risk of repeating myself: on the basis of both that very thorough briefing by Mr Frydenberg, whose knowledge and sophistication about this issue I think is peerless within this parliament, and that very detailed and intelligent discussion all of my colleagues had, during which many questions were asked and many interesting contributions were made, the government will make policy choices in the best interests of the Australian people that will ensure that electricity is affordable, supply is reliable, and we keep our international commitment to lower emissions, because, Senator Carr—as you should know, having been the spokesman for your party on industry for all those years and a quondam minister for industry, if I recall, in the dark days of the Gillard government—doing nothing is not an option. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:59</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PATERSON</name>
    <name.id>144138</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister for Employment, Senator Cash. Is the minister aware of any recent reports concerning donations to registered organisations which appear to show a conflict of interest?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:59</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CASH</name>
    <name.id>I0M</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Paterson for what is a very serious question. Senators may have seen a report today which highlights that the Leader of the Opposition, Bill Shorten, has some very serious questions to answer about the time when he wore three hats: (a) as a director of AustralianSuper; (b) as National Secretary of the Australian Workers' Union; and (c) as the Labor Party candidate for Maribyrnong back in 2007.</para>
<para>While Mr Shorten was wearing these three hats there was a trail of money that flowed between the three organisations. While Mr Shorten was a director of AustralianSuper, they made a $27,500 donation to the Australian Workers' Union—the union of which Mr Shorten was the then national secretary. Around the same time, the AWU made a $25,000 donation to Mr Shorten's campaign as Labor candidate for Maribyrnong. What a coincidence! Mr Shorten holds positions in three separate organisations and money is changing hands, very seriously, between all three of them.</para>
<para>Mr Shorten now has some very serious questions to answer, not just to the Australian people but also to the members of the AWU and AustralianSuper: what money exactly changed hands, and why? Because, when it comes to transparency, that is something which each and every one of us in this chamber should support. We need to ensure, as parliamentarians, that the people presiding over these savings are acting solely in the interests of the hardworking members and not in the interests of union officials, political candidates or anyone else—especially when you are wearing all three of those hats.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Paterson, on a supplementary question.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:01</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PATERSON</name>
    <name.id>144138</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Can the minister explain how conflicts of interest erode confidence in these organisations?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:01</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CASH</name>
    <name.id>I0M</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Australians and Australian workers must have the utmost confidence that their superannuation that is being put aside for their retirement is not being donated to partisan campaigns. Over the last 10 years—senators may be interested—$53 million has been paid by industry super funds to unions. Over the same 10 years unions have paid around $65 million to the ALP. This is the retirement savings of hardworking Australians. Mr Shorten, as we now know, based on today's disclosures, is very, very familiar with how this money trail works, which makes it even more important that he comes clean with the Australian people and explains not one, not two, but three conflicts of interest. The members of the super fund and the AWU deserve nothing less.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Paterson, on a final supplementary question.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:02</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PATERSON</name>
    <name.id>144138</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, what is the government doing to ensure that questionable payments to registered organisations are banned?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:02</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CASH</name>
    <name.id>I0M</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The government has introduced legislation to amend the Fair Work Act to ban corrupting benefits paid by employers to unions and union officials. Our legislation also requires disclosure of all benefits flowing to employer groups, unions and businesses under workplace deals. What this will do is end the secrecy in these payments. If a payment is a legitimate payment than let us make sure every single Australian—but in particular those affected by the payment, the hardworking members of employer groups or unions—knows why these payments are being made. This is the type of confidence we as parliamentarians, we as senators, need to give to the Australian people: confidence that both their employer and the relevant union are looking after their interests and not looking after the interests of their own.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Brandis</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I ask that further questions be placed on the Notice Paper.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>NOTICES</title>
        <page.no>3863</page.no>
        <type>NOTICES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Withdrawal</title>
          <page.no>3863</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:04</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ROBERTS</name>
    <name.id>266524</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>In accordance with standing order 78(3), I object to the withdrawal of the notice of motion for the disallowance of the Family Law (Superannuation) (Provision of Information—Military Superannuation and Benefits Scheme) Amendment Determination 2016, and ask that the notice stand in my name.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The motion for disallowance will now stand in your name and will be called on later today.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE: TAKE NOTE OF ANSWERS</title>
        <page.no>3863</page.no>
        <type>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE: TAKE NOTE OF ANSWERS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Energy</title>
          <page.no>3863</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:04</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator KIM CARR</name>
    <name.id>AW5</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate take note of the answers given by the Attorney-General (Senator.Brandis) to questions without notice asked by Opposition senators today relating to the final report of the Independent Review into the Future Security of the National Electricity Market</para></quote>
<para>Today, Senator Brandis told us how informed the party room discussion was yesterday—over five hours of debate. I have the slides from that meeting—the Finkel review into the future security of the National Electricity Market. It is apparent that Minister Frydenberg did provide quite substantial advice to the party room about the directions in which the government was hoping to go. It is a pity that the Attorney-General did not pay any attention to what those slides said or the advice that was tendered. When he was asked simple questions about the modelling that underpins the proposals that Dr Finkel has put forward, he was not able to come anywhere near answering a question. He is not interested in the slightest in the underlying assumptions of the government's program, which the government says is of critical importance to the future directions of the energy system in this country.</para>
<para>The Labor Party have offered to work with the government because we understand how critical this is, given the failure of our political system to come to terms with the critical issues about the future of our energy system. What we have seen, of course, in the last day is that the government cannot even work within itself, let alone work across this parliament. It is not able to come to terms with its own backbench about these fundamental questions, despite the extraordinary advice that has been tendered. What we do know is that the modelling that was provided and released last night demonstrates the shambolic mess of the energy policy that has been advanced by those within the government who want to, in effect, stand against the realities of time and the whole notion of climate change and pretend that none of these developments are actually occurring within the world.</para>
<para>Mr Abbott, in particular, is reported to have suggested that the clean energy target that has been proposed by Dr Finkel is a new tax on coal. Of course, it would be an entire farce if he had looked at any of the details. The Jacobs Group modelling, which underpins the report that the government itself released last night, shows that the business-as-usual proposition—of course, this government and, clearly, Senator Brandis demonstrate that the prime policy is do nothing, and the reality is that the hard Right of the Liberal Party takes the view that we do nothing—would actually undermine more quickly the question of the future of coal in this country. Under that model, the propositions that have been advanced by Dr Finkel are that there would be less electricity generated through coal by doing nothing than by advancing the position that has been put forward by Dr Finkel's review. The clean energy target suggests that we are able to provide a model whereby we could extend the life of baseload power generation in this country in a more rational way to see a more reasoned and careful reduction in the use of coal throughout the economy—an approach that would actually provide far greater protection for the security of this country, the security of the living standards of working people and the security of industry in a manner that would deliver the reliability of supplies to businesses and households and would produce, in my judgement, a better economic outcome for the country.</para>
<para>But what has been said over there? There is a refusal to engage on an important principle that does require a bipartisan approach across this parliament from a government that is not even able to get agreement within its own party room about such fundamental principles. What we are seeing, of course, is that the knuckle draggers that have dominated this Prime Minister and forced him to turn his back on what have been his lifelong commitments on these issues are now seeking to dominate once again. The cost to the country from the bitterness and power games that are being played out is quite extraordinary and profound. It is important for the whole country to understand what is at stake and the fates that we are dealing with in terms of a proper approach to policy that meets the requirements of this country and would allow this parliament to move past the policy paralysis that has so completely undermined the capacity to attract new technologies and investments in the future of energy generation in this country. It is appalling to see the level of disquiet that has developed within this government because of the failure of their people, and the Liberal Party in particular, to face up to the realities of climate change and the real economic needs of this country. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:09</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FAWCETT</name>
    <name.id>DYU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank my colleague opposite for his contribution. I had the pleasure of visiting Germany, in fact the part that was the old East Germany, with my colleague, who proudly talked about the benefits of the socialist system over there. I had a great trip and I learnt a lot about the socialist republic there. One of the things about a free liberal pluralist democracy, such as we have here—particularly in the Liberal Party—is that rather than central control, we actually encourage people to bring a diversity, a plurality, of ideas to any debate. When we consider a topic, rather than people just lining up and accepting the direction from an external agency or a particular head of power, we encourage people to engage with it intellectually, to debate it and to come up with the best position for our nation. That is the basis upon which the Liberal Party and the National Party, in coalition, have governed. If you look back through Australia's history, many of the best developments in our nation have been developed through a robust process of engaging.</para>
<para>It is no different with the Finkel review. Dr Finkel clearly, as a senior scientist, has a very informed and important voice in this debate. As policymakers in this place representing our communities—the consumers of electricity, whether residential or industrial; the producers of electricity; and those people who are involved in the retailing of electricity—there is a range of voices that we need to consider in making decisions around the policy directions.</para>
<para>I come to this debate as somebody who has a background steeped in systems engineering as an experimental test pilot. I was deeply suspicious of the advertising brochures that were often proffered, in my case to the Defence Force I used to work for, saying why a new idea or a new product was going to be the best thing since sliced bread. One of the jobs in the test environment was to examine those claims based on the facts—to work out what are the constraints around this, what are the things we are trying to achieve, what is the performance—and then, based on transparent, quantifiable facts, to present a brief to the decision-maker to decide whether or not they should invest in that particular piece of equipment or the direction a modification might be going.</para>
<para>So as I come to this whole debate around energy, I look at it through a fairly simple prism of systems engineering, which is: we do have some constraints that we wish to meet. Our objective is to have low energy prices. One of the things that has kept Australia engaged in the international economy for decades is the fact we have been able to have low energy prices, which means our standard of living, driven off good wages and other things, has made us a First World country. But the low energy price has underpinned that, and so low energy cost has to be one of the key targets that we have.</para>
<para>Reliability is clearly another target. I am a South Australian. I was there in South Australia through some of the blackouts that we have had. Regardless of the trigger event for those blackouts, you need to look at the system from a systems engineering perspective. You need to understand the inputs, the outputs and the interconnections where the failure modes are of a system. What we have seen—again, Dr Finkel's report talks about this—is that renewables, whatever you think of them—whether you like them or loathe them, the fact is there are considerations around the nature of the supply of electricity interfacing with a system that was designed, built and established on baseload power that outputs at consistent frequency. This means there is additional engineering work, therefore cost, that is associated with integrating renewable energy into our network. One of the concerns I have to date is that ideology has pushed the rapid uptake and the subsidising of renewable energy without actually taking into account that additional engineering work, and that is one of the costs that should be borne by that sector if it is to proceed.</para>
<para>Clearly, the other objective we have is to meet emissions targets in terms of our international obligations. So put those three things together and what this report provides is an important voice into the discussion we need to have as a nation. First and foremost, we need to ask: how do we redesign a system that will provide reliable and affordable power while also working within the constraints of meeting our climate obligations? First and foremost, we need to be looking at ways we can have baseload power that is affordable and reliable. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:14</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PRATT</name>
    <name.id>I0T</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Isn't it extraordinary that a sensible proposal that should have been taken seriously by the coalition party room is treated in this way? We have in our nation, as is well documented by the Finkel report itself, an energy crisis. We have increasing prices in our nation, as you can see in the very charts that were presented to the coalition party room just yesterday. That very presentation that you all would have listened to outlines very clearly that policy uncertainty is holding back new investment, resulting in higher costs and gas-fired generation setting the price more often. Here it is in your very own presentation.</para>
<para>We had from Senator Brandis this afternoon and, indeed, yesterday an absolute denial of the evidence and facts presented to his own party room. He refuses, as Senator Carr highlighted, to engage with even the basic evidence that is presented to his party room that is in the Finkel report itself. We have here documented evidence that went before the party room about how electricity prices are rising. We have evidence here that says a clean-energy target would indeed lower prices. We also have the evidence that shows it is the policy vacuum, the policy uncertainty that is driving energy prices up in our nation.</para>
<para>We have had in our nation a 90 per cent fall in energy investment and one in three renewable-energy jobs lost, and yet we see coming from the coalition a continued war on renewable energy. Instead of moving to solve our energy crisis, the crisis is within the coalition party room. They refuse to take responsibility for the policy uncertainty that is holding back investment and placing our energy systems in crisis.</para>
<para>The simple fact is we had in place under the Labor government a perfectly good mechanism that would have set certainty in place, enabled electricity prices to stabilise and come down and enabled the energy investment that we as a nation need to happen. Instead what we see is a policy vacuum and a policy crisis despite the fact that you have asked for policies. They are on the table, and you are riven by complete division and uncertainty. We have had Senator Brandis and Senator Fawcett defending their party room processes and the robustness of people expressing their views and having their voices heard. You seem to value those views in a way that is completely devoid of facts or evidence. Not all views are equal. Not all opinions are as important as other views. Why? Because they are not based on evidence. They are not based on research. Instead you are quite happy to accede to these voices. Why? Because your government is in crisis. Because you are trying to stabilise Malcolm Turnbull's prime ministership.</para>
<para>There is incredible disquiet, as reported, in the coalition party room. It seems apparent that the backbench of the coalition wants to significantly modify the clean energy target as proposed. Why? Because you are into a descent away from evidence and facts and toward meritless opinions.</para>
<para>This is a sensible policy proposal that should have been taken seriously. We have a preferred policy position that is not the one that is on the table, but we can engage in effective discussion about the policy directions of this nation. But the simple fact is the climate wars in our nation are back in a civil war within the coalition party room. We have power prices up and pollution up. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:19</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator REYNOLDS</name>
    <name.id>250216</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I too rise to speak on this motion to take note of answers. For me, listening to question time today, it was the perfect demonstration yet again of why the Australian public is so disillusioned in all of us in this chamber. The questions from those opposite and what I have heard during this take note really highlight the divide between both sides of this chamber. First of all, Senator Pratt just said that not all views are equal. I have got to say, that again highlights the ideological difference between those opposite and those on this side. We on this side firmly believe that the views of all Australians matter, that they count, and not just those of the ideological left. All views count and that is absolutely replicated in our party room.</para>
<para>So not only am I happy to defend, along with my colleague Senator Fawcett, the process that we have gone through to date but I am actually very proud of it and I will tell you the reasons why. As we know, to do nothing on this critically important issue is not an option. Let's have a look at the process. COAG commissioned a review on this critically important issue of energy security by none other than our Chief Scientist, Dr Alan Finkel, and there was no better to undertake this review. I commend him and his team for the production of this report. There are 50 critically important recommendations for all of us in our party rooms and in this chamber to discuss.</para>
<para>The report was delivered to COAG on Friday. On Tuesday this week, we had a brilliant brief by Minister Josh Frydenberg, who I commend for his work in this very challenging policy area. We had a great brief, a very comprehensive brief. My colleagues got together again later that afternoon after we had had an opportunity to digest some more of the report. Yes, it was discussed. Yes, it was robust but it was respectful and comprehensive. This is absolutely no different a process than we have in our party room all the time. Unlike those opposite, unlike Senator Pratt, we believe every single voice in our community counts, as Senator Fawcett said. We represent quite a broad church in our party room but that is a strength, not a weakness as those opposite seem to assert. We have had a great robust discussion on the report. The government no doubt will go away and look further into the issues that have been raised in the party room and come back to the party room in due course unlike those opposite, who clearly spent their party room time yesterday discussing all of these great zingers, all of these great insults they can throw our way—knuckle draggers, ideologues, those sorts of things.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Moore</name>
    <name.id>00AOQ</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Socialists!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator REYNOLDS</name>
    <name.id>250216</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Socialists? Absolutely, if the shoe fits! We on this side had a discussion of substance on security, affordability and reliability—the most important issue facing our nation at the moment—and on how we do all of that and still meet our emission reduction targets. Again, this was necessary because Labor and the Greens together with their ideological zealotry—words that have been used by those opposite—have actually made the power go out in South Australia. As Dr Finkel said, it has put us in a very precarious situation in energy security. That must be addressed.</para>
<para>While those opposite may not believe that every voice counts and may not have actually gone through and started to come up with substantive debating points, would it not be fabulous if tomorrow they actually came back into this chamber whether during in the MPI, question time or take note and actually started asking questions about the substance of the Finkel report? Bring questions about the recommendations for security, for affordability, for reliability, about meeting our international targets instead of throwing insults at us. How fabulous would that be for our democracy if those opposite actually came in and discussed the issues of substance rather than throw insults at us? But sadly, I am very confident that they will not do it. Those opposite will come in tomorrow and will repeat the same zingers and insults at those of us on this side rather than raise issues of policy. I think this country is all the worse for that lack of ability of those opposite to come in here and debate the issues and not try to debate the process. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:25</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator URQUHART</name>
    <name.id>231199</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I also rise to take note of the answers from Senator Brandis on the Prime Minister's disastrous lack of climate change policy and the ongoing divisions in the Liberal and National parties over this fundamental issue. It is an issue that we must come to terms with and find a way forward on. The review by Australia's Chief Scientist gives us just that. The Chief Scientist proposes a mechanism—a clean energy target—which predicts lower electricity prices for consumers as well as investment certainty in our energy sector. Labor want to give this review and its recommendations a chance, but we need a respectful debate. That begins with all parties respecting the office of the Chief Scientist and examining his report and his recommendations without prejudice.</para>
<para>In my home state of Tasmania renewable energy has been fundamental to our economy for over half a century. Access to cheap hydropower has supported tens of thousands of jobs in heavy industry and will continue to do so for decades to come. Going forward it is vital that our energy and climate change policies provide the certainty industry needs to continue to make investment in Tasmania. What Tasmania needs is for Senator Abetz and the Tasmanian Liberal Senate team to represent the Tasmanian people's interests in the party room, to set aside their ideological positions and to actually examine the evidence. We must find a way forward because at present the energy policy uncertainty is driving up energy prices and is driving down investment in renewable energy.</para>
<para>I remind the Senate of the comments from the chief of staff to the Prime Minister Mr Abbott earlier this year. Ms Credlin famously confessed on Sky News that the coalition made the debate about the hip pocket rather than the environment. The cat has been belled, Mr Abbott. Your scare campaigns will not work anymore. Despite this revelation, there is a large rump of coalition members and senators who continue to push an incorrect, illogical argument that further renewable energy investments will drive up power prices.</para>
<para>Senator Brandis was asked by Senator Farrell about the status of the debate in the coalition. He claimed that the coalition considers the evidence and then engages in a debate. I put it to the Senate that, in fact, what we have seen take place is the coalition receive the evidence and receive some sensible recommendations and then the 21 of them completely ignore that in the party room meeting. Senator Back stood up at the conclusion of Senator Farrell's questions and added some commentary at the start of his question and said that he would now ask a serious question of the Attorney. What a farce the coalition government has become. How can questions about the government's lack of an energy policy not be serious?</para>
<para>I note that Senator Back made today's papers as reportedly speaking against the Finkel review's recommendations in the party room yesterday. In the last parliament I travelled the country with Senator Back on the Select Committee on Wind Turbines. Senator Back's clear prejudice against renewable energy was on display during that inquiry and it was on display again today. Either the coalition is serious about finding a way forward on climate change and energy policy or it is happy to continue the old Abbott game of scare campaign first and Australia's future somewhere way behind.</para>
<para>Senator Gallagher then asked if the government was any closer to reaching a position on energy and climate change. Senator Brandis's response was telling. He said that doing nothing is not an option and that the government must take action without delay. Senator Brandis went on and on about the long discussion in their party room, but he could not outline if the coalition under Malcolm Turnbull is any closer to reaching a position. Of course, given the prejudice displayed by his own backbench, one who scoffs at questions in this place and another who reportedly said 'Finkel in its current form is dead', it is no wonder that Senator Brandis could not answer Labor's questions today.</para>
<para>We have industry and consumers crying out for a clear policy going forward and then we have a Liberal and National coalition engaged in the most self-absorbed debate within their own party room. Labor are offering to work with the government to find a middle ground here. We want to move beyond the years of division and set in place a credible low-carbon energy policy for Australia's future, for our children's future and for the betterment of this country. It is time that the government started to put aside the silly ideological arguments, look at the facts and look at how they can develop policy, and we are prepared to work with them in doing that.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Asylum Seekers</title>
          <page.no>3869</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:30</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKIM</name>
    <name.id>JKM</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate take note of the answer given by the Minister for Employment (Senator.Cash) to a question without notice asked by Senator McKim today relating to settlement of a legal case concerning the Manus Island immigration detention centre.</para></quote>
<para>Today we found out that Minister for Immigration and Border Protection Peter Dutton has made a choice to settle a class action brought against Australia and some contractors in the Manus Island detention centre based on illegal detention and failure of duty of care and that Mr Dutton has made a choice to settle for about $90 million. I believe this is the biggest human rights settlement in Australia's history. It is also the biggest admission of responsibility in Australian human rights history, because today Minister Dutton has accepted that he, Prime Minister Turnbull and, before them, Mr Morrison when he was minister for immigration and, before him, the Australian Labor Party, who established the detention centre on Manus Island and who supported and continue to support the policy of indefinite detention on both Manus Island and Nauru are responsible for the illegality of offshore detention and for the massive harm that offshore detention causes to our fellow human beings.</para>
<para>The men that Peter Dutton is detaining on Manus Island have suffered immensely and far too much during their years of illegal incarceration. They have been robbed of their future. They have been denied their freedoms. They have had their families broken and ripped in two. People have died, including one—Reza Barati—who was murdered while in Australia's care on Manus Island. We have seen dozens of serious injuries. We have seen hundreds of men suffering physical and psychological torment because of the Labor and Liberal parties' choice to detain them on Manus Island. There have been riots, and only weeks ago the Manus Island Detention Centre came under sustained automatic weapon fire by drunk members of the Papua New Guinea navy.</para>
<para>I have been to Manus Island and I have met many of the people who today have been awarded damages because Mr Dutton has confirmed that he is responsible for what happened to them. I have shared cups of tea with them. I have broken bread with many of them. When I spoke to them, they said to me that they do not really care about the money; they just want a safe place. They want to be reunited with their family members who are in Australia. They want a place they can call home where they do not have to worry about having machine guns fired at them and where they do not have to worry about being robbed and beaten when they walk down the street. They just want a place to call home—a safe place where they can start to rebuild their lives.</para>
<para>Mr Dutton's decision to settle this class action, as I said, is an acknowledgement of his responsibility for the conditions and the harm that they have suffered. It is an acknowledgement that his attempt to wash his hands of responsibility is not only dishonest but a fiction that would not have stood up in a court of law. But Minister Dutton did not settle this because he had a pang of conscience. I can assure Australia of that.</para>
<para>And he did not settle it because he wants to do the right thing; he settled the case because he wants to keep the horrors of what has happened to these men on Manus Island hidden and secret from the Australian people. No amount of money can compensate these men for the harm that Mr Dutton has done. If he is serious about looking after them, he has to ensure that not only the camp on Manus Island but the camp on Nauru as well is closed. Every man, woman and child that Australia is responsible for on Manus Island and Nauru needs to be brought here to Australia so we can look after them properly and so they can make a positive contribution to our society.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>NOTICES</title>
        <page.no>3870</page.no>
        <type>NOTICES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Presentation</title>
          <page.no>3870</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:35</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BUSHBY</name>
    <name.id>HLL</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>At the request of Senator Williams, I give notice of his intention at the giving of notices on the next sitting date to withdraw business of the Senate notice of motion No. 1, standing in his name for 19 June 2017, proposing the disallowance of the Jervis Bay Territory Marine Safety Ordnance 2016; and business of the Senate notice of motion No. 1 standing in his name for 15 August 2017, proposing the disallowance of the Financial Framework (Supplementary Powers) Amendment (Social Services Measures No. 4) Regulation 2016.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Presentation</title>
          <page.no>3870</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Withdrawal</title>
          <page.no>3873</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:36</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RICE</name>
    <name.id>155410</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I withdraw business of the Senate notice of motion No. 3.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:36</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATERS</name>
    <name.id>192970</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I withdraw business of the Senate notice of motion no. 7 on the basis that my name is being added to business of the Senate notice of motion No. 6, and the terms of reference which we instigated are now essentially reflected in No. 6.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Postponement</title>
          <page.no>3873</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BUSINESS</title>
        <page.no>3873</page.no>
        <type>BUSINESS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Rearrangement</title>
          <page.no>3873</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:37</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McGRATH</name>
    <name.id>217241</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>On behalf of Senator Fifield, I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That consideration of the business before the Senate on Wednesday, 21 June 2017, be interrupted at approximately 5 pm, but not so as to interrupt a senator speaking, to enable Senator Gichuhi to make her first speech without any question before the chair.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Rearrangement</title>
          <page.no>3874</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:38</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McGRATH</name>
    <name.id>217241</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>On behalf of Senator Fifield, I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) so much of the standing orders be suspended as would prevent the succeeding provisions of this resolution having effect;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) on Wednesday, 14 June 2017, the business of the Senate order of the day proposing the disallowance of the Family Law (Superannuation) (Provision of Information—Military Superannuation and Benefits Scheme) Amendment Determination 2016, standing in the names of Senators Kakoschke-Moore and Lambie, for that day be called on no later than 6.15 pm; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) if consideration of the motion listed in paragraph (b) is not concluded at 6.30 pm, the questions on the unresolved motion shall then be put.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Roberts, could I just seek some clarity in relation to business of the Senate notice of motion No. 1, which is now standing in your name. Did you wish to deal with that under this section of discovery of formal business or have it automatically come on as a result of the resolution of government business notice of motion No. 2?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:38</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ROBERTS</name>
    <name.id>266524</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The latter, thanks, Mr President.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thanks for that clarity. I indicate to the Senate that that is the best place to deal with a disallowance motion, so the Senate is fully informed as to why.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>3874</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade References Committee</title>
          <page.no>3874</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Reference</title>
            <page.no>3874</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:39</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LUDLAM</name>
    <name.id>I07</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to amend business of the Senate notice of motion No. 5 standing in my name for today, proposing a reference to the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade References Committee relating to the implications of climate change for Australia's national security.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Ludlam, has an amendment been circulated?</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LUDLAM</name>
    <name.id>I07</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Yes, quite some time ago. I seek leave to amend general business notice of motion No. 5 in the terms circulated in the chamber.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LUDLAM</name>
    <name.id>I07</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I move the motion as amended:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the following matter be referred to the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade References Committee for inquiry and report by 4 December 2017:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The implications of climate change for Australia's national security, with particular reference to:</para></quote>
<para>(a) the threats and long-term risks posed by climate change to national security and international security, including those canvassed in the <inline font-style="italic">National Security Implications of Climate-Relate</inline> <inline font-style="italic">d Risks and a Changing Climate r</inline> <inline font-style="italic">eport by the United States Department of Defense;</inline></para>
<para>(b) the role of both humanitarian and military response in addressing climate change and the means by which these responses are implemented;</para>
<para>(c) the capacity and preparedness of Australia’s relevant national security agencies to respond to climate change risks in our region;</para>
<para>(d) the role of Australia’s overseas development assistance in climate change mitigation and adaptation more broadly;</para>
<para>(e) the role of climate mitigation policies in reducing national security risks; and</para>
<para>(f) any other related matters.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:40</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McGRATH</name>
    <name.id>217241</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a short statement.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Leave is granted for one minute.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McGRATH</name>
    <name.id>217241</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The government believes the Senate inquiry on this matter is unnecessary. The 2016 Defence White Paper addressed some of the implications of climate change for Australia's security. A Defence climate security advisor has been established within the office of the Vice Chief of the Defence Force Group to ensure that white paper guidance is integrated into all relevant areas of Defence business. Other actions being taken by Defence include but are not limited to the establishment of an environmental planning and advisory cell within Headquarters Joint Operations Command to integrate environmental considerations, including the impact of climate change into operation planning; the renewable energy program that aims to increase energy security and efficiency; and Defence representation at the Australian Government Disaster and Climate Resilience Reference Group.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the motion moved by Senator Ludlam as amended be agreed to. Question agreed to.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Joint Select Committee on oversight of the implementation of redress related recommendations of the Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse</title>
          <page.no>3875</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Appointment</title>
            <page.no>3875</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:41</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HINCH</name>
    <name.id>2O4</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to amend general business notice of motion No. 269 relating to the establishment of a joint select committee concerning the implementation of recommendations of the royal commission into responses to child sexual abuse.</para>
<para>Leave is not granted.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Hinch, do you wish to move the motion in its original form?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:42</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HINCH</name>
    <name.id>2O4</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to have general business notice of motion No. 269 taken as formal.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Is there any objection to this motion being taken as formal?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Bernardi</name>
    <name.id>G0D</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Yes.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>There is an objection. Again, you will not have the opportunity to move the motion, Senator Hinch.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BILLS</title>
        <page.no>3876</page.no>
        <type>BILLS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Productivity Commission Amendment (Addressing Inequality) Bill 2017</title>
          <page.no>3876</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" style="" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" background="" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture">
            <a type="Bill" href="s1066">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Productivity Commission Amendment (Addressing Inequality) Bill 2017</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>First Reading</title>
            <page.no>3876</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:42</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator URQUHART</name>
    <name.id>231199</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>At the request of Senator McAllister, I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the following bill be introduced: A Bill for an Act to amend the <inline font-style="italic">Productivity Commission Act 1998</inline>, and for related purposes.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator URQUHART</name>
    <name.id>231199</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I present the bill and move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill may proceed without formalities and be now read a first time.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to</para>
<para>Bill read a first time.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>3876</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:43</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator URQUHART</name>
    <name.id>231199</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I present the explanatory memoranda and I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bills be now read a second time.</para></quote>
<para>I seek leave to have the second reading speech incorporated in <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline>.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">The speech read as follows—</inline></para>
<quote><para class="block">PRODUCTIVITY COMMISSION AMENDMENT (ADDRESSING INEQUALITY) BILL 2017</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Economic inequality in Australia is on the rise.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The share of national income going to the top one percent of earners is now higher than it has been at almost any time in the last seventy five years. Over the past four decades, real earnings for the top ten percent have risen nearly four times faster than they have for the bottom ten percent.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Whilst it is true that this growing inequality has come against a backdrop of rising living standards for much of the Australian community, this should not alleviate our concerns. A deeply unequal society, as exists in some other countries, would be at odds with the ethos of egalitarianism that underpins Australia's national story.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Economic inequality, whether income or wealth inequality, can ultimately manifest itself as an unacceptable inequality of outcomes and opportunities for members of the Australian community.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Economic inequality can foreclose educational opportunities to talented children from</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">underprivileged backgrounds, and health care options to the elderly. It can lead to social dislocation as insecurity of work or housing forces parents to move frequently, and children to bounce between schools.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Furthermore, economists have identified a connection between the inequality of a society and its intergenerational mobility, a relationship dubbed the "Gatsby Curve". The more unequal a society, the less likely children are to be able to do better than their parents.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Economic inequality is not just a social justice issue - it is also a macroeconomic issue. Research by the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and development (OECD) estimates that income inequality in the twenty years from 1985 to 2005 reduced economic growth in the OECD zone by almost five percent. Institutions including the International Monetary Fund (IMF) have found that inequality can warp patterns of demand and consumption, and can prevent talented individuals from participating to their full extent in the economy, affecting productivity and growth.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Productivity Commission (the Commission) should play a role in addressing this.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The purpose of the Productivity Commission Amendment (Addressing Inequality) Bill 2017 is to empower the Commission to improve the quality of information and analysis available about economic inequality in Australia, and to ensure that proper consideration is given to inequality in the public debate about economic policy</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It does this in two ways.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">First, the Bill establishes inequality as a mandatory consideration for the Commission.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It should be noted that inequality has not been ignored by the Commission. Its reports often contain analysis on inequality, and it has produced standalone research on income distribution in Australia.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">However, it is important that responding to inequality is fixed as a permanent and inescapable part of the mandate of the Commission. The Commission is more than just an advisory body. Its work helps set the national agenda, and is often relied upon as a basis for substantial policy changes. This was seen recently, for instance, with the reliance on the Commission's <inline font-style="italic">Report on Workplace Relations </inline>in the Fair Work Commission's 2017 decision on Penalty Rates. Consideration of inequality should be a part of its work.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">A requirement to consider inequality would not be out of place in the Commission's governing legislation. Section 8 of the <inline font-style="italic">Productivity Commission Act 1998 </inline>as it presently stands sets out general policy guidelines for the Commission; including the considerations the Commission must have regard to in the exercise of its functions. These include a wide variety of social, environmental, and economic considerations, such as:</para></quote>
<list>the need to facilitate adjustment to structural changes in the economy and the avoidance of social and economic hardships arising from those changes — s8(1) (d);</list>
<list>the need to promote regional development - s8(1) (g); and</list>
<list>the need to ensure that industry develops in a way that is ecologically sustainable — s8(1) (i).</list>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill adds a further consideration to this list: the need to mitigate the negative effects of inequality on the Australian economy and the Australian community.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Second, the Bill establishes a framework for the Commission to regularly research and report on economic inequality in Australia.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The timeline for the Commission to produce Inequality Reports is linked to the Intergenerational Reports that are produced every five years by the Parliamentary Budget Office. This because the release of the Intergenerational Report poses an opportunity for longer term thinking by the government and other participants in policy debates. Long term thinking and policy making on social issues would be helped by an understanding of the state of inequality in Australia.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">An Inequality Report would have three key roles.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">An Inequality Report would assess the extent of economic inequality in Australia. The Commission would be responsible for establishing reliable and consistent measures for economic inequality. These measures should together be capable of describing the different dimensions of economic inequality, such as geography, gender, age, and other relevant dimensions. Regular and sound measurement is essential if inequality is to be addressed. Not only can governments struggle to respond effectively if the problem is not measured, but the community at large may remain unware of the extent of the problem all together.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">An Inequality Report would also assess the effects of economic inequality on different aspects of Australia's society and economy. As discussed earlier, there is a connection between inequality and growth. In producing its report, the Commission would consider the extent to which economic performance has been affected by inequality. Economic inequality also presents across multiple vectors of disadvantage. In practice, economic inequality means inequality of social, educational and other outcomes and opportunities. The Commission would consider these effects of economic inequality, as well as considering how economic inequality affects intergenerational mobility.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Finally, an Inequality Report would assess the effect of existing government programs on economic inequality. Consideration and evaluation of existing policy setting is a critical part in the policy development cycle.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill provides policy makers with additional tools to address inequality, and provides the public with the information to hold them to account if they do not.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I commend the Bill to the Senate.</para></quote>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator URQUHART</name>
    <name.id>231199</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to continue my remarks later.</para>
<para>Leave granted; debate adjourned.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>MOTIONS</title>
        <page.no>3878</page.no>
        <type>MOTIONS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Hobart International Airport</title>
          <page.no>3878</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:43</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator URQUHART</name>
    <name.id>231199</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>At the request of Senators Bilyk and Brown today, I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) notes that the Government cut all 27 Australian Federal Police (AFP) staff from Hobart International Airport in the 2014-15 Budget, leaving Hobart as the only capital city airport in Australia without an AFP presence;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) further notes that the Government in the 2017-18 Budget locked in a $184 million funding cut to the AFP over the forward estimates, and formalised the reduction of 150 staff in the upcoming year alone – no funding was provided for the restoration of staff in Hobart;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) acknowledges that concerns have previously been raised by the Tasmanian Government, Tasmania Police, and the Police Union about the withdrawal of the AFP in Hobart and that Tasmania Police want the presence restored; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(d) calls on the Government to explain why it believes that Hobart International Airport is the only capital city airport in Australia which does not require an AFP presence, explain the factual basis for its decision to withdraw those police, and outline the steps that it is taking to ensure safety and security at Hobart International Airport is not compromised.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:44</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ABETZ</name>
    <name.id>N26</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a short statement.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Leave is granted for one minute.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ABETZ</name>
    <name.id>N26</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank the Senate. AFP resources were withdrawn from Hobart airport in 2014 following a review by the relevant department, not a budget cut as falsely asserted in the motion. This mirrors the decision in 2011 to withdraw the AFP's presence from Alice Springs Airport, which occurred under Labor.</para>
<para>Our national security situation is under constant review and assessment. If the risk profiles change, security settings will change accordingly. The Tasmanian Liberal Senate team has continually monitored the need for an AFP presence with the minister's office. Just last week the AFP advised the government that the risk profile for Hobart has, thankfully, not changed. The AFP is an operational agency and deploys their resources depending on the threat assessment. The government has full confidence in the AFP's assessment.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>NOTICES</title>
        <page.no>3879</page.no>
        <type>NOTICES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Postponement</title>
          <page.no>3879</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:46</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator XENOPHON</name>
    <name.id>8IV</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That general business notice of motion no. 2 standing in my name for today, relating to the reference of a matter to the Education and Employment References Committee (Penalty Rates) be postponed until the next Monday of sitting.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>3879</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Corporations and Financial Services Committee</title>
          <page.no>3879</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Reporting Date</title>
            <page.no>3879</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:46</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator URQUHART</name>
    <name.id>231199</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>at the request of Senator O'Neill, I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the time for the presentation of the report of the Parliamentary Joint Committee on Corporations and Financial Services on whistleblower protections be extended to 17 August 2017.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Strengthening Multiculturalism Committee</title>
          <page.no>3879</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Appointment</title>
            <page.no>3879</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:46</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SIEWERT</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>At the request of Senator Di Natale, I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the resolution of 29 November 2016 appointing the Select Committee on Strengthening Multiculturalism be amended as follows:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Omit paragraph (9), substitute:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(9) That the committee have power to appoint subcommittees consisting of three or more of its members, and to refer to any such subcommittee any of the matters which the committee is empowered to consider.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(9A) That the committee and any subcommittee have power to send for and examine persons and documents, to move from place to place, to sit in public or in private, notwithstanding any prorogation of the Parliament or dissolution of the House of Representatives, and have leave to report from time to time its proceedings and the evidence taken and such interim recommendations as it may deem fit.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>3879</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Leadbeater's Possum</title>
          <page.no>3879</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>3879</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:47</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RICE</name>
    <name.id>155410</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That there be laid on the table by the Minister representing the Minister for the Environment and Energy, by no later than 9.30 am on 21 June 2017, the following documents held by the Department of the Environment and Energy: any nominations submitted seeking revised listing of the Leadbeater's Possum (Gymnobelideus leadbeateri) under the Environment Protection and Biodiversity Conservation Act 1999, including the completed nomination form(s) received.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:47</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McGRATH</name>
    <name.id>217241</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a short statement.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Leave is granted for one minute.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McGRATH</name>
    <name.id>217241</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Nomination forms are routinely released by the Threatened Species Scientific Committee as part of a consultation process once a species or ecological community are included on the finalised assessment list.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>3880</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Defence Properties</title>
          <page.no>3880</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>3880</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:47</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RICE</name>
    <name.id>155410</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to amend general business notice of motion No. 340 standing in my name for today concerning an order for the production of documents relating to the Defence site at Maribyrnong.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RICE</name>
    <name.id>155410</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I move the motion as amended:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That there be laid on the table, by the Minister for Defence, by no later than 12.30 pm on 20 June 2017, the following documents regarding the Defence site Maribyrnong:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) the consultant report referred to by the Minister for Defence at the estimates hearing on 29 May 2017 of the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Legislation Committee regarding the sale and proposed capacity of 6,000 dwellings for the site; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) any correspondence between the Department of Defence or the Minister for Defence and her office and Australia Zhongren Enrichment Holding Pty Ltd or associated entities.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) any property contamination profile or related documents held by the Department of Defence;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(d) any correspondence by or to the Department of Defence or the Minister for Defence and her office regarding the cost of site remediation or decontamination; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(e) any correspondence by or to the Department of Defence or the Minister for Defence and her office regarding advice on the number of houses that could be built on the land and potential congestion and urban planning issues including schools, child care, medical centres, amenities and the environment.</para></quote>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:48</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McGRATH</name>
    <name.id>217241</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a short statement.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Leave is granted for one minute.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McGRATH</name>
    <name.id>217241</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The government does not release commercially sensitive information that could have the potential to distort local markets, and is therefore unable to release the consultant report on this basis. The government can confirm that Defence has received an unsolicited proposal from Australia Zhongren Enrichment Holding Pty Ltd but this has not been accepted and is not being considered. All parties, including the Victorian government, are welcome to participate in the open-market process. Planning decisions for the Defence site Maribyrnong, including the potential number of dwellings that could be built on the site, will ultimately be decisions for the city council and relevant Victorian government authorities. The government remains committed to working with the Victorian government and local council to ensure the needs of the broader community are considered in plans for future development of the site.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>3881</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Economics References Committee</title>
          <page.no>3881</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Reference</title>
            <page.no>3881</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:49</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator KETTER</name>
    <name.id>244247</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I ask that the name of Senator Waters be added to business of the Senate notice of motion No. 6, proposing a reference to the Economics References Committee.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Waters's name is so added.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:49</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator KETTER</name>
    <name.id>244247</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I, and also on behalf of Senator Waters, move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the following matter be referred to the Economics References Committee for inquiry and report by 7 December 2017:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The governance and operation of the Northern Australia Infrastructure Facility (NAIF), with particular reference to:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) the adequacy and transparency of the NAIF's governance framework, including its project assessment and approval processes;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) the adequacy of the NAIF's Investment Mandate, risk appetite statement and public interest test in guiding decisions of the NAIF Board;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) processes used to appoint NAIF Board members, including assessment of potential conflicts of interest;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(d) the transparency of the NAIF's policies in managing perceived, actual or potential conflicts of interest of its Board members;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(e) the adequacy of the <inline font-style="italic">Northern Australia Infrastructure Facility Act 2016</inline> and Investment Mandate to provide for and maintain the independence of decisions of the Board;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(f) the status and role of state and territory governments under the NAIF, including any agreements between state and territories and the Federal Government; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(g) any other related matters.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:49</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McGRATH</name>
    <name.id>217241</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a short statement.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Leave is granted for one minute.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McGRATH</name>
    <name.id>217241</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The Northern Australia Infrastructure Facility, NAIF, has a comprehensive suite of governance arrangements publicly available on its website. Its existing governance structures are comparable to similar government finance entities, such as the Clean Energy Finance Corporation. The NAIF is designed to operate and compete in a commercial environment. Similar to the Clean Energy Finance Corporation's investment policy documentation, the NAIF must recognise the competing challenges faced under its investment mandate, including the commercial imperatives of the NAIF, its requirement to drive economic development in northern Australia and the mandatory criteria outlined in the NAIF investment mandate.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the motion moved by Senator Ketter, be agreed to.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [15:54]<br />(The President—Senator Parry) </p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>37</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Brown, CL</name>
                  <name>Cameron, DN</name>
                  <name>Collins, JMA</name>
                  <name>Dastyari, S</name>
                  <name>Di Natale, R</name>
                  <name>Dodson, P</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D</name>
                  <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                  <name>Gallagher, KR</name>
                  <name>Griff, S</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                  <name>Hinch, D</name>
                  <name>Kakoschke-Moore, S</name>
                  <name>Ketter, CR</name>
                  <name>Kitching, K</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J</name>
                  <name>Leyonhjelm, DE</name>
                  <name>Lines, S</name>
                  <name>Ludlam, S</name>
                  <name>Marshall, GM</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M</name>
                  <name>McKim, NJ</name>
                  <name>Moore, CM</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, DM</name>
                  <name>Polley, H</name>
                  <name>Pratt, LC</name>
                  <name>Rhiannon, L</name>
                  <name>Rice, J</name>
                  <name>Siewert, R</name>
                  <name>Singh, LM</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, AE (teller)</name>
                  <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                  <name>Watt, M</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                  <name>Xenophon, N</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>31</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Abetz, E</name>
                  <name>Back, CJ</name>
                  <name>Bernardi, C</name>
                  <name>Birmingham, SJ</name>
                  <name>Burston, B</name>
                  <name>Bushby, DC (teller)</name>
                  <name>Canavan, MJ</name>
                  <name>Cash, MC</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, DJ</name>
                  <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                  <name>Fifield, MP</name>
                  <name>Georgiou, P</name>
                  <name>Gichuhi, LM</name>
                  <name>Hanson, P</name>
                  <name>Hume, J</name>
                  <name>Macdonald, ID</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                  <name>Nash, F</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, B</name>
                  <name>Parry, S</name>
                  <name>Paterson, J</name>
                  <name>Payne, MA</name>
                  <name>Reynolds, L</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A</name>
                  <name>Ryan, SM</name>
                  <name>Scullion, NG</name>
                  <name>Seselja, Z</name>
                  <name>Smith, D</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names></names>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to. </p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:57</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I will advise senators that there is most likely going to be a series of divisions and the bells will be rung in accordance with standing order 101 for one minute, if that is the case.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>MOTIONS</title>
        <page.no>3883</page.no>
        <type>MOTIONS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Communications by Post</title>
          <page.no>3883</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:57</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator URQUHART</name>
    <name.id>231199</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) notes:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (i) the rapid increase in the use of electronic communication technology in recent decades, including in commerce,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (ii) that access to electronic communication technology differs between Australians, and is often related to income, age, education level and remoteness,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (iii) that not all Australians have the skills and infrastructure to communicate effectively via electronic channels,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (iv) that many businesses, including banks, telecommunications companies and utilities, charge consumers an extra fee to receive communications via post, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (v) that often the fee charged by companies to receive communications by post is intended as a disincentive, and does not represent the actual cost incurred by the company; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) calls on the Government to bring forward legislation that will give consumers the right to receive communications from companies by post for no extra fee.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:57</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McGRATH</name>
    <name.id>217241</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a short statement.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Leave is granted for one minute.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McGRATH</name>
    <name.id>217241</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>While the government agrees with the need to protect consumers and the sentiment of the motion, more work is needed before legislation can be considered. This work may include the matter being considered by the Legislative and Governance Forum on Consumer Affairs, which consists of all Commonwealth, state, territory and New Zealand ministers responsible for fair trading and consumer protection laws. This group is consulted and its approval must be given for changes to the Australian Consumer Law. The Minister for Small Business has asked Treasury to provide advice on this issue, including whether current provisions of the Australian Consumer Law or other relevant laws may assist or whether new legislation is required. The minister has met with consumer groups, including Keep Me Posted, on this matter on numerous occasions and is happy to discuss the process and advise senators in the near future.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the motion moved by Senator Urquhart be agreed to.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
          <division.header>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [15:59]<br />(The President—Senator Parry)</p>
            </body>
          </division.header>
          <division.data>
            <ayes>
              <num.votes>36</num.votes>
              <title>AYES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Brown, CL</name>
                <name>Cameron, DN</name>
                <name>Collins, JMA</name>
                <name>Dastyari, S</name>
                <name>Di Natale, R</name>
                <name>Dodson, P</name>
                <name>Farrell, D</name>
                <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                <name>Gallagher, KR</name>
                <name>Griff, S</name>
                <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                <name>Hinch, D</name>
                <name>Kakoschke-Moore, S</name>
                <name>Ketter, CR</name>
                <name>Kitching, K</name>
                <name>Lambie, J</name>
                <name>Lines, S</name>
                <name>Ludlam, S</name>
                <name>Marshall, GM</name>
                <name>McAllister, J</name>
                <name>McCarthy, M</name>
                <name>McKim, NJ</name>
                <name>Moore, CM</name>
                <name>O'Neill, DM</name>
                <name>Polley, H</name>
                <name>Pratt, LC</name>
                <name>Rhiannon, L</name>
                <name>Rice, J</name>
                <name>Siewert, R</name>
                <name>Singh, LM</name>
                <name>Sterle, G</name>
                <name>Urquhart, AE (teller)</name>
                <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                <name>Watt, M</name>
                <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                <name>Xenophon, N</name>
              </names>
            </ayes>
            <noes>
              <num.votes>32</num.votes>
              <title>NOES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Abetz, E</name>
                <name>Back, CJ</name>
                <name>Bernardi, C</name>
                <name>Birmingham, SJ</name>
                <name>Burston, B</name>
                <name>Bushby, DC (teller)</name>
                <name>Canavan, MJ</name>
                <name>Cash, MC</name>
                <name>Duniam, J</name>
                <name>Fawcett, DJ</name>
                <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                <name>Fifield, MP</name>
                <name>Georgiou, P</name>
                <name>Gichuhi, LM</name>
                <name>Hanson, P</name>
                <name>Hume, J</name>
                <name>Leyonhjelm, DE</name>
                <name>Macdonald, ID</name>
                <name>McGrath, J</name>
                <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                <name>Nash, F</name>
                <name>O'Sullivan, B</name>
                <name>Parry, S</name>
                <name>Paterson, J</name>
                <name>Payne, MA</name>
                <name>Reynolds, L</name>
                <name>Roberts, M</name>
                <name>Ruston, A</name>
                <name>Ryan, SM</name>
                <name>Scullion, NG</name>
                <name>Seselja, Z</name>
                <name>Smith, D</name>
              </names>
            </noes>
            <pairs>
              <num.votes>0</num.votes>
              <title>PAIRS</title>
              <names></names>
            </pairs>
          </division.data>
          <division.result>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to.</p>
            </body>
          </division.result>
        </division></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>3884</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Live Animal Exports</title>
          <page.no>3884</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>3884</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:02</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RHIANNON</name>
    <name.id>CPR</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Before I move motion 341, I ask that the name of Senator Hinch be added to this motion.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>So added.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RHIANNON</name>
    <name.id>CPR</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I, and also on behalf of Senator Hinch, move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That there be laid on the table, by the Minister representing the Minister for Agriculture and Water Resources, by close of business on 20 June 2017, a copy of the draft or any other version of the Export Control (Animals) Amendment (Equine Animals) Order 2017 (the Equine Amendment Order) and all documents by or held by the Department of Agriculture and Water Resources and/or the Minister's office, including risk assessments, advice, emails, minutes or other information relating to the live export of equines including, but not limited to, consideration of the trade's cruelty to animals and any reputational risk to all those involved.</para></quote>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:02</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McGRATH</name>
    <name.id>217241</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a short statement.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Leave is granted for one minute.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McGRATH</name>
    <name.id>217241</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The government opposes the motion. It would cause an unreasonable diversion of resources. The department consulted with industry on the draft amendment order; therefore, copies of the order are publicly available.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the motion moved by Senator Rhiannon be agreed to.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [16:04]<br />(The President—Senator Parry)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>36</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Brown, CL</name>
                  <name>Cameron, DN</name>
                  <name>Collins, JMA</name>
                  <name>Dastyari, S</name>
                  <name>Di Natale, R</name>
                  <name>Dodson, P</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D</name>
                  <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                  <name>Gallagher, KR</name>
                  <name>Griff, S</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                  <name>Hinch, D</name>
                  <name>Kakoschke-Moore, S</name>
                  <name>Ketter, CR</name>
                  <name>Kitching, K</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J</name>
                  <name>Lines, S</name>
                  <name>Ludlam, S</name>
                  <name>Marshall, GM</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M</name>
                  <name>McKim, NJ</name>
                  <name>Moore, CM</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, DM</name>
                  <name>Polley, H</name>
                  <name>Pratt, LC</name>
                  <name>Rhiannon, L</name>
                  <name>Rice, J</name>
                  <name>Siewert, R</name>
                  <name>Singh, LM</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, AE (teller)</name>
                  <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                  <name>Watt, M</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                  <name>Xenophon, N</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>32</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Abetz, E</name>
                  <name>Back, CJ</name>
                  <name>Bernardi, C</name>
                  <name>Birmingham, SJ</name>
                  <name>Burston, B</name>
                  <name>Bushby, DC (teller)</name>
                  <name>Canavan, MJ</name>
                  <name>Cash, MC</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, DJ</name>
                  <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                  <name>Fifield, MP</name>
                  <name>Georgiou, P</name>
                  <name>Gichuhi, LM</name>
                  <name>Hanson, P</name>
                  <name>Hume, J</name>
                  <name>Leyonhjelm, DE</name>
                  <name>Macdonald, ID</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                  <name>Nash, F</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, B</name>
                  <name>Parry, S</name>
                  <name>Paterson, J</name>
                  <name>Payne, MA</name>
                  <name>Reynolds, L</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A</name>
                  <name>Ryan, SM</name>
                  <name>Scullion, NG</name>
                  <name>Seselja, Z</name>
                  <name>Smith, D</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names></names>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to. </p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division></subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>MOTIONS</title>
        <page.no>3886</page.no>
        <type>MOTIONS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Budget</title>
          <page.no>3886</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:06</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SIEWERT</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) notes:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (i) the drug testing trial of 5,000 people applying for income support announced in the 2017-18 budget,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (ii) that the Government may require an exemption from the <inline font-style="italic">Disability Discrimination Act 1992</inline> to enact this measure,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (iii) that, in 2013, a position paper by The Australian National Council on Drugs, found there would be serious ethical and legal problems with implementing a drug testing program for income support recipients in Australia,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (iv) that both the United Kingdom and Ontario, Canada stepped away from proposals for drug testing income support recipients because it was rejected by experts as being discriminatory or imposing unfair conditionality, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (v) that, from 2011 to 2014, only two people out of 108 408 tested in Arizona, USA had a positive drug test; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) calls on the Government to abandon this budget measure.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:07</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McGRATH</name>
    <name.id>217241</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a short statement.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Leave is granted for one minute.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McGRATH</name>
    <name.id>217241</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The government opposes this motion. Drug testing is just one element of a suite of measures designed to help people back into work. It has been designed as a trial so that we can determine whether this policy works in Australia.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:07</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a short statement.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Leave is granted for one minute.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Labor has serious concerns about the government's proposed drug-testing trial of social security recipients. We have written to the Minister for Social Services with a series of questions about the proposed trial. We have also requested briefings from DSS and DHS. Those briefings have not yet taken place.</para>
<para>We are also consulting with key stakeholders, including health professionals and organisations that are on the front line of supporting drug addicted Australians. And we are still waiting to see the legislation. Therefore we believe that this motion being brought forward today is very premature and we cannot support it. We asked Senator Siewert if she would postpone the motion until we had been able to ascertain further detail and consider it through our processes. Unfortunately, she did not agree to do this.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the motion moved by Senator Siewert be agreed to.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
          <division.header>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [16:09]<br />(The President—Senator Parry)</p>
            </body>
          </division.header>
          <division.data>
            <ayes>
              <num.votes>9</num.votes>
              <title>AYES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Di Natale, R</name>
                <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                <name>Ludlam, S</name>
                <name>McKim, NJ</name>
                <name>Rhiannon, L</name>
                <name>Rice, J</name>
                <name>Siewert, R (teller)</name>
                <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
              </names>
            </ayes>
            <noes>
              <num.votes>58</num.votes>
              <title>NOES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Abetz, E</name>
                <name>Back, CJ</name>
                <name>Bernardi, C</name>
                <name>Birmingham, SJ</name>
                <name>Brown, CL</name>
                <name>Burston, B</name>
                <name>Bushby, DC</name>
                <name>Cameron, DN</name>
                <name>Canavan, MJ</name>
                <name>Cash, MC</name>
                <name>Collins, JMA</name>
                <name>Dastyari, S</name>
                <name>Dodson, P</name>
                <name>Duniam, J</name>
                <name>Farrell, D</name>
                <name>Fawcett, DJ</name>
                <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                <name>Fifield, MP</name>
                <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                <name>Gallagher, KR</name>
                <name>Georgiou, P</name>
                <name>Gichuhi, LM</name>
                <name>Griff, S</name>
                <name>Hanson, P</name>
                <name>Hinch, D</name>
                <name>Hume, J</name>
                <name>Kakoschke-Moore, S</name>
                <name>Ketter, CR</name>
                <name>Kitching, K</name>
                <name>Leyonhjelm, DE</name>
                <name>Lines, S</name>
                <name>Macdonald, ID</name>
                <name>Marshall, GM</name>
                <name>McAllister, J</name>
                <name>McCarthy, M</name>
                <name>McGrath, J</name>
                <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                <name>Moore, CM</name>
                <name>Nash, F</name>
                <name>O'Neill, DM</name>
                <name>O'Sullivan, B</name>
                <name>Parry, S</name>
                <name>Paterson, J</name>
                <name>Payne, MA</name>
                <name>Polley, H</name>
                <name>Pratt, LC</name>
                <name>Reynolds, L</name>
                <name>Roberts, M</name>
                <name>Ruston, A</name>
                <name>Ryan, SM</name>
                <name>Scullion, NG</name>
                <name>Seselja, Z</name>
                <name>Singh, LM</name>
                <name>Smith, D</name>
                <name>Sterle, G</name>
                <name>Urquhart, AE (teller)</name>
                <name>Watt, M</name>
                <name>Xenophon, N</name>
              </names>
            </noes>
            <pairs>
              <num.votes>0</num.votes>
              <title>PAIRS</title>
              <names></names>
            </pairs>
          </division.data>
          <division.result>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
            </body>
          </division.result>
        </division></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Adani Carmichael Coalmine</title>
          <page.no>3888</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:14</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator IAN MACDONALD</name>
    <name.id>YW4</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<para>That the Senate—</para>
<para>(a) congratulates the Federal Minister for Resources and Northern Australia, and the Queensland State Premier, for their leadership in bringing the Adani Carmichael coal mine in Queensland's Galilee Basin another step closer to being a reality;</para>
<para>(b) recognises the much-needed boost to employment in North Queensland generally, and in the resources sector specifically, that the Adani Carmichael mine will deliver;</para>
<para>(c) welcomes the positioning of Adani's Regional Headquarters in Townsville; and</para>
<para>(d) notes that road, rail and port infrastructure upgrades directly resulting from Adani's investment in the Galilee Basin will provide benefit to businesses and communities across Northern Australia.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:14</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATERS</name>
    <name.id>192970</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a short statement.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Leave is granted for one minute.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:14</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATERS</name>
    <name.id>192970</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>This motion claims that Adani will boost employment in North Queensland—it will not. The jobs are a lie. They initially claimed 10,000 jobs but, in fact, under cross examination they have had to confess that it is much less than that; it is 1,646 jobs. What is more, those jobs are likely to kill the workers, given that we have got a resurgence of black lung in Queensland. Black lung is back in Queensland and coming to a coalmine worker near you.</para>
<para>On the flip side, we have 70,000 jobs on the reef, and we have lost half of the coral cover on the reef. We need to keep that coral to keep those jobs instead of the donations payback that has been delivered by both Labor and the Liberals to Adani and its coalmining mates. We should be investing in genuine job creation in the regions. The clean energy projects that are in the pipeline could deliver far more jobs than Adani ever will, and they will not kill the reef or its workers.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:15</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a short statement.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Leave is granted for one minute.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Labor will be supporting this motion, but we believe the project has to stack up environmentally. We believe regions in Queensland are crying out for this investment and we support the potential jobs that this project will create, but we do not support taxpayers' money being used—</para>
<para>Opposition senators interjecting—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>On my left!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>on the railway line. It has to stand on its own two feet. Adani have stated that the Northern Australia Infrastructure Facility loan is not needed as a prerequisite for the project to go ahead. Like so many important policy issues facing this nation, the government's intention in this area is completely hamstrung by their bungling of the issues on the ground.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the motion moved by Senator Macdonald be agreed to.</para>
<para>The Senate divided. [16:17]</para>
<para>(The President—Senator Parry)</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
          <division.header>
          </division.header>
          <division.data>
            <ayes>
              <num.votes>45</num.votes>
              <title>AYES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Abetz, E</name>
                <name>Back, CJ</name>
                <name>Bernardi, C</name>
                <name>Birmingham, SJ</name>
                <name>Burston, B</name>
                <name>Bushby, DC (teller)</name>
                <name>Cameron, DN</name>
                <name>Canavan, MJ</name>
                <name>Cash, MC</name>
                <name>Duniam, J</name>
                <name>Farrell, D</name>
                <name>Fawcett, DJ</name>
                <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                <name>Fifield, MP</name>
                <name>Gallagher, KR</name>
                <name>Georgiou, P</name>
                <name>Gichuhi, LM</name>
                <name>Hanson, P</name>
                <name>Hinch, D</name>
                <name>Hume, J</name>
                <name>Ketter, CR</name>
                <name>Kitching, K</name>
                <name>Lambie, J</name>
                <name>Leyonhjelm, DE</name>
                <name>Lines, S</name>
                <name>Macdonald, ID</name>
                <name>McGrath, J</name>
                <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                <name>Moore, CM</name>
                <name>Nash, F</name>
                <name>O'Neill, DM</name>
                <name>O'Sullivan, B</name>
                <name>Parry, S</name>
                <name>Paterson, J</name>
                <name>Payne, MA</name>
                <name>Polley, H</name>
                <name>Pratt, LC</name>
                <name>Reynolds, L</name>
                <name>Roberts, M</name>
                <name>Ruston, A</name>
                <name>Ryan, SM</name>
                <name>Scullion, NG</name>
                <name>Smith, D</name>
                <name>Urquhart, AE</name>
                <name>Watt, M</name>
              </names>
            </ayes>
            <noes>
              <num.votes>9</num.votes>
              <title>NOES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Di Natale, R</name>
                <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                <name>Ludlam, S</name>
                <name>McKim, NJ</name>
                <name>Rhiannon, L</name>
                <name>Rice, J</name>
                <name>Siewert, R (teller)</name>
                <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
              </names>
            </noes>
            <pairs>
              <num.votes>0</num.votes>
              <title>PAIRS</title>
              <names></names>
            </pairs>
          </division.data>
          <division.result>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to.</p>
            </body>
          </division.result>
        </division></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Naval Shipbuilding Plan</title>
          <page.no>3889</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:20</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator REYNOLDS</name>
    <name.id>250216</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to amend general business notice of motion No. 338 standing in my name.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator REYNOLDS</name>
    <name.id>250216</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I move the motion as amended:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) congratulates the Government on its delivery of the Naval Shipbuilding Plan;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) notes that the Naval Shipbuilding Plan re-affirms the Government's commitment to invest $89 billion in naval capability across:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (i) 12 Future submarines,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (ii) 9 Future frigates,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (iii) 12 offshore patrol vessels, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (iv) up to 21 pacific patrol boats;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) notes that, through this shipbuilding plan, the Government will help create 5,200 direct jobs in construction activities, and more than double this number in the supply chain and sustainment activities – over 15,000 personnel will ultimately be directly or indirectly employed in the naval shipbuilding enterprise;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(d) notes that four key enablers are required to implement the Government's Naval Shipbuilding Plan:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (i) modern, innovative and secure naval shipbuilding infrastructure,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (ii) workforce growth and development,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (iii) a sustainable and cost-competitive Australian industrial base, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (iv) a national collaborative approach; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(e) notes that a national naval shipbuilding enterprise is required to deliver on our national endeavour to build and sustain Australia's naval capabilities, creating Australian jobs and opportunities for Australian industry.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(f) notes that stakeholders have raised the issue of local content and capability development throughout the Senate inquiry into the future of Australia’s naval shipbuilding industry;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(g) calls on the Government to ensure that prime contractors facilitate the integration of Australian businesses into global supply chains; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(h) calls on the Government to use the Naval Shipbuilding College to work constructively with business, unions and communities to transition and, where necessary, re-train displaced auto workers and workers along the supply chain, including working with TAFEs around the country to provide skill development for Australia’s naval shipbuilding industry.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The final notice of motion is 335 standing in the name of Senator Bernardi.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Influence of Foreign Agents</title>
          <page.no>3890</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:20</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BERNARDI</name>
    <name.id>G0D</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) notes reports, arising from a joint investigation by the ABC <inline font-style="italic">Four Corners</inline> program and Fairfax Media, broadcast on 5 June 2017 regarding the increasing influence of the People's Republic of China in Australia's political system and within academia; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) calls on the Prime Minister to request His Excellency the Governor-General issue Letters Patent to establish a royal commission into the following:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (i) the influence of foreign agents in offering direct or indirect benefits to politicians, political parties, governments and academia with a view to influencing decisions or other actions by those recipients to be in accord with the view of foreign governments, including, but not limited to, the Chinese Communist Party, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (ii) possible reforms to preserve the sovereignty, transparency and integrity of Australian democracy.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:21</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RHIANNON</name>
    <name.id>CPR</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to amend the motion of Senator Bernardi by removing (b)(i) and (b)(ii) and substituting the words 'the corrupting influence of large political donations on the transparency and integrity of Australian democracy'.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RHIANNON</name>
    <name.id>CPR</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I move the motion as amended.</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) notes reports, arising from a joint investigation by the ABC Four Corners program and Fairfax Media, broadcast on 5 June 2017 regarding the increasing influence of the People's Republic of China in Australia's political system and within academia; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) calls on the Prime Minister to request His Excellency the Governor¬-General issue Letters Patent to establish a royal commission into the following:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (i) the corrupting influence of large political donations on the transparency and integrity of Australian democracy</para></quote>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:21</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SIEWERT</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Could we cancel the division, please.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>With the agreement of the Senate, the division is cancelled. I gather you have accepted the fact that it is as a result of that question.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SIEWERT</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>We take it we lost.</para>
<para>Question negatived.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question now is that the motion moved by Senator Bernardi be agreed to.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:22</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McGRATH</name>
    <name.id>217241</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a short statement.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Leave is granted for one minute.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McGRATH</name>
    <name.id>217241</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The government acknowledges that the threat of political interference by foreign intelligence services is a problem of the highest order and that it is getting worse. Earlier this year, the Prime Minister initiated a comprehensive review of Australia's espionage and foreign interference laws and the Attorney-General is leading this review. As part of this process, we are considering the adequacy and effectiveness of the espionage offences, relevant international frameworks and whether there are complimentary provisions that would strengthen our agency's ability to investigate and prosecute acts of foreign interference. It would not be appropriate to establish any other inquiry including a royal commission until that review has been completed.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:22</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a short statement.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Leave is granted for one minute.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The Leader of the Opposition has written to the Prime Minister expressing Labor's strong desire for action on this issue, urging him to instruct the coalition to refuse donations from the individuals named in the <inline font-style="italic">Four Corners</inline> report, as we have done. Labor has long advocated for a ban on foreign donations to Australian political parties and associated entities.</para>
<para>The Rudd and Gillard Labor governments attempted to ban foreign donations three times but our legislation was blocked in the Senate. Guess by whom? Last November, I introduced a private member's bill to ban foreign donations. In February this year, the opposition leader introduced the same legislation in that House. With the government's support, these important reforms could be made law as a matter of priority. The opposition leader has also written to the Prime Minister, calling on the government to support our call for a bipartisan reference to the Parliamentary Joint Committee on Intelligence and Security. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:24</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RHIANNON</name>
    <name.id>CPR</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a short statement.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Leave is granted for one minute.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RHIANNON</name>
    <name.id>CPR</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The Greens support investigations and policies to strengthen the transparency and integrity of Australian democracy. I am proud of our track record on this issue. Former senators Bob Brown and Christine Milne introduced the first bills for a national integrity commission into this Senate eight years ago. However, we do not support using political donations to beat the nationalist drum in order to distract from domestic sources of corruption. We would support an investigation into the influence of political donations from Australia and overseas and the influence of powerful lobbyists. We would certainly welcome an investigation into how ex-members of parliament, who slide easily into well-paying private sector jobs, might be compromising the integrity of our democracy. But this motion does none of that. It is pure dog whistling to avoid tackling these very serious issues.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the motion moved by Senator Bernardi be agreed to.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
          <division.header>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [16:26]<br />(The President—Senator Parry)</p>
            </body>
          </division.header>
          <division.data>
            <ayes>
              <num.votes>10</num.votes>
              <title>AYES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Bernardi, C (teller)</name>
                <name>Burston, B</name>
                <name>Georgiou, P</name>
                <name>Griff, S</name>
                <name>Hanson, P</name>
                <name>Kakoschke-Moore, S</name>
                <name>Lambie, J</name>
                <name>Leyonhjelm, DE</name>
                <name>Roberts, M</name>
                <name>Xenophon, N</name>
              </names>
            </ayes>
            <noes>
              <num.votes>42</num.votes>
              <title>NOES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Abetz, E</name>
                <name>Back, CJ</name>
                <name>Bushby, DC</name>
                <name>Cameron, DN</name>
                <name>Canavan, MJ</name>
                <name>Cash, MC</name>
                <name>Di Natale, R</name>
                <name>Duniam, J</name>
                <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                <name>Fifield, MP</name>
                <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                <name>Gallagher, KR</name>
                <name>Gichuhi, LM</name>
                <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                <name>Hinch, D</name>
                <name>Hume, J</name>
                <name>Ketter, CR</name>
                <name>Kitching, K</name>
                <name>Lines, S</name>
                <name>Ludlam, S</name>
                <name>McAllister, J</name>
                <name>McGrath, J</name>
                <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                <name>McKim, NJ</name>
                <name>Moore, CM</name>
                <name>Nash, F</name>
                <name>O'Neill, DM</name>
                <name>O'Sullivan, B</name>
                <name>Parry, S</name>
                <name>Paterson, J</name>
                <name>Payne, MA</name>
                <name>Polley, H</name>
                <name>Pratt, LC</name>
                <name>Reynolds, L</name>
                <name>Rhiannon, L</name>
                <name>Rice, J</name>
                <name>Ryan, SM</name>
                <name>Scullion, NG</name>
                <name>Siewert, R</name>
                <name>Urquhart, AE (teller)</name>
                <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
              </names>
            </noes>
            <pairs>
              <num.votes>0</num.votes>
              <title>PAIRS</title>
              <names></names>
            </pairs>
          </division.data>
          <division.result>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived. </p>
            </body>
          </division.result>
        </division></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Naval Shipbuilding Plan</title>
          <page.no>3893</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:29</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SIEWERT</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I want to ensure that our no vote on Senator Reynolds's motion No. 338 was recorded, given the noise that was in the chamber at the time.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>It is now so recorded.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>NOTICES</title>
        <page.no>3893</page.no>
        <type>NOTICES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Withdrawal</title>
          <page.no>3893</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:29</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WHISH-WILSON</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—Pursuant to notice, I withdraw business of the Senate notice of motion No. 4 standing in my name for today, relating to the disallowance of ASIC Corporations (Foreign-Controlled Company Reports) Instrument 2017.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senators, you will be pleased to know that that concludes the discovery of formal business.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>MATTERS OF PUBLIC IMPORTANCE</title>
        <page.no>3893</page.no>
        <type>MATTERS OF PUBLIC IMPORTANCE</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Purchase of New Dwellings by Foreign Non-Residents</title>
          <page.no>3893</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:30</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I inform the Senate that at 8.30 am today nine proposals were received in accordance with standing order No. 75. The question of which proposal would be submitted to the Senate was determined by lot. As a result, I inform the Senate that the following letter has been received from Senator Hanson:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Pursuant to standing order 75, I propose that the following matter of public importance be submitted to the Senate for discussion:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The need to limit the number of new dwellings which can be purchased be foreign non-residents.</para></quote>
<para>Is the proposal supported?</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">More than the number of senators required by the standing orders having risen in their places—</inline></para>
<para>The PRESIDENT: I understand that informal arrangements have been made to allocate specific times to each of the speakers in today's debate. With the concurrence of the Senate, I shall ask the clerks to set the clock accordingly.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:31</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>There is a need to limit the number of new dwellings purchased by foreign investors. In Australia there is no limit on the number of new dwellings which can be purchased by foreign investors. There is no way of knowing how many residential properties are owned by foreign investors. We do know that foreign investors are seeking to buy new dwellings in ever-increasing numbers, because each year more and more approvals are sought by the Foreign Investment Review Board. Let me just explain: in 2012-13 it was 4,499; in 2015-16 it was 26,052. In a four-year period, from 2012 to 2016, foreign investors were given approval to purchase 62,440 properties. A fee of $5,000 is paid for each approval, making it very likely that these approval numbers do represent properties purchased. In 2014-15, foreign investors were given approval to purchase 17.5 per cent of all new property in New South Wales, and over 15 per cent in Victoria. It is not unreasonable to suggest that in areas of Sydney and Melbourne the percentage of new dwellings being bought by foreign investors is likely to be 30 to 40 per cent, displacing many Australians wanting to buy in these areas.</para>
<para>I have asked the Treasury about the policy intent that underpins the unlimited sale of new residential property to foreign investors. They tell me that allowing foreign investors to buy as many new homes as they like increases the supply of new homes and creates jobs in the construction industry. Well, these are bureaucrats gone absolutely mad. These people who live in Canberra can probably have their homes. They have no relevance to people in Sydney or Melbourne who cannot buy homes in their own cities, where they have grown up as children and where they wish to be around family and friends. This is nonsensical, and it is ridiculous. Yes, I support the building industry, by all means, but not at the expense of Australians owning their own homes.</para>
<para>We know that the government no longer believes that story, because the government announced in the budget an annual vacancy charge. This charge will apply when a property is not occupied or genuinely available on the rental market for at least six months each year. The charge is to be equal to the application fee at the time the property was acquired, which is currently $5,000. It is unclear how the new annual vacancy charge will operate. How will the government identify properties which are vacant for six months or more? How will the government maintain a current address for each foreign investor? And, if they do manage to have a current address, how will the government collect the penalty in a cost-effective way in foreign jurisdictions? My opinion of this, of what has been put before us, is that it is unworkable. It is not going to work out. The government will be chasing their tail. Of course, they will set up another administration and put on another 50 or 100 people at total cost to the taxpayer.</para>
<para>But I do agree with the government's plan to cap at 50 per cent the number of new dwellings a developer can sell to foreign investors. At least they are doing something about it, but under Labor in 2009 and I believe it was Minister Chris Bowen who said at the time: 'Oh, no, it will be all foreign investors. We'll allow you to build all these units, but you can sell the whole lot to foreign investors.' So now we have a situation, mainly in Melbourne, where you have these complexes that have been built and are totally foreign-owned. No-one lives in them, so it has just done Australians out of the opportunity of owning their own homes.</para>
<para>It is common knowledge that the housing shortage in Australia results from an imbalance between supply and demand. There is too much demand for housing due in part to foreign investors, as well as too little supply in areas where people need to live. So people have to move out of the place where they grew up. They need to work there and need family assistance when they have children and they want to be around friends. But these are the people who are being forced out their places because of foreign investors driving up the prices of housing. So they have been told to move out further. They are moving away from the places that they have grown up in, close to the work, and it is costing them more and more.</para>
<para>The government wants to increase the supply of new housing, but this plan avoids the need to deal with the underlying problem. Very few people are talking about the demand side of the housing problem, but I am going to. As a community, we do have the ability to reduce demand by slowing the rate of immigration into this country, and this is something I have advocated for a long time. A reduction in the number of migrants, together with changes in the ability of foreign investors to buy residential housing, would make a genuine difference to the lives of so many who would dearly love to buy a new or existing home.</para>
<para>The present rate of immigration is too high, at 190,000 annually. The figure should be reduced to around 100,000 until we can rebalance housing, jobs and infrastructure. We cannot provide sufficient quality housing at a price ordinary people can afford. This is evidenced in the alarming increase of homeless people on the streets and the number of families and children sleeping in cars in hospital car parks or where they feel safe.</para>
<para>The advocates of unlimited immigration through the humanitarian program or the points system show remarkably little interest in the Australians who already live here and are struggling. The Australian Greens want to open up our borders to anyone, but they always want others to pay. My suggestion to the Australian Greens is that they and their supporters take up sponsorship of the new settlers—take them into your homes, pay all their outgoings and do not burden other Australians.</para>
<para>The shortage of housing in Australia is a government-made problem and can be solved by government. The buck-passing between the federal government and the states needs to stop. What stops the government reducing the number of new migrants, refugees, 457 visa holders and those buying their way into this country? Their answer is: while our productivity remains low, the only way to grow the economy is to increase the size of the population. Well, they are wrong. Big businesses are the ones that will profit from this. They are the ones making money out of it, while Australians are queuing for housing, health, nursing homes and everything else that was available to them, even jobs. The federal government needs to be honest with the people of Australia and tell them the truth. The truth is that poor decision making by successive governments has led to a less productive economy than we might otherwise have had.</para>
<para>One Nation believes the shortage of housing for Australians would be improved by limiting foreign investors to one new property and making it illegal to sell an established home to a foreign investor. What we are advocating is that at point of sale, when you are wanting to buy an established house, you must present identification that you are a permanent resident or an Australian citizen entitled to buy an established house. You must sign on the contract, and that must match the name. That is then sent to the Foreign Investment Review Board and also sent to the immigration department. I do not believe that foreign students should be able to buy houses in Australia. They are entitled to, but a lot them do not sell the houses when they leave the country. The Australian dream is to own your own home, and I will continue my fight to give that opportunity to every Australian.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:39</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I had a look at One Nation's policy in relation to housing and to say that it is a scant policy would be overselling the position. Senator Hanson talks about One Nation working for the people. If you were actually serious about housing policy, you would support many of the policies Labor has put forward to deal with housing issues. To simply come in here and run a rant against foreign investment, when it is not the biggest housing policy issue that this country is facing, just demonstrates what One Nation are about. They are about division and they are about pushing a line that plays to the lowest common denominator in this country. They do not have a clue about dealing with housing policy.</para>
<para>On 21 April, Labor announced a tranche of policy which is about trying to deal seriously with the issue and not just using it as some attack on migration and on foreigners, playing to the lowest common denominator within Australia. We have a comprehensive package of policies on housing and we will continue to develop our housing policy leading up to the next election. There is a crisis for many young people in this country who are trying to buy a home and set up a home for the future. The housing crisis is only getting worse. You look at the skyrocketing prices in places like Melbourne and Sydney and other places around the country and you wonder how some young kids are ever going to get into a home. Home ownership is at 60-year lows and home ownership rates for 25- to 34-year-olds have collapsed from around 60 per cent to less than 40 per cent in the past 30 years. Rental stress is also on the rise, with the proportion of low-income households in rental stress now at more than 40 per cent. So 40 per cent of people who cannot own their own home and are renting a home are in rental stress. To pay the rent they are not putting food on the table; they are not getting the kids new shoes when they need new shoes. These are the practical issues that, surely, One Nation, if they claim they are working for the people, should be addressing. But, no, let's go for the easy hit, and that is foreign investment, and let's never develop a policy that actually goes to the real issues—that is One Nation.</para>
<para>Only a Labor government will tackle housing affordability. We are building on our existing proposals with new policies to improve affordability, increase housing supply, boost jobs and reduce the economic risks associated with distorted investment decisions. Any housing affordability package that does not involve reforms to negative gearing and capital gains tax discounts is an absolute sham. Unless One Nation start to adopt those types of policies, then their argument that they stand up for working people in this country will, like many of their policies, be shown to be nothing more than a sham. Labor's plan involves a number of issues. Firstly, we want to reform negative gearing and capital gains tax concessions. Why should investors, backed by taxpayers' funds, be able to lock out young people trying to get their first home? We just do not think it is right and we have taken a strong position on that. We also want to limit direct borrowing by self-managed superannuation funds. Rich people with millions of dollars in superannuation are using those superannuation funds to invest in housing and, again, locking people out of the housing market who are simply in there trying to buy a home—especially first homebuyers.</para>
<para>We would facilitate a COAG process to introduce a uniform vacant property tax across all major cities. We would increase foreign investor fees and penalties. We think that is an issue, but we do not think it is the basis of a housing policy. We think it is an issue we should deal with, but it cannot be the key issue in any housing affordability package.</para>
<para>We would establish a bond aggregator to increase investment in affordable housing. But we realise that a bond aggregator on its own will not bridge the gap between the investment and returns that are needed to build more affordable housing. We will have more to say about that in the lead-up to the next election. Simply, we accept that the bond aggregator is a positive step but that on its own it is not enough.</para>
<para>We would boost homelessness support for vulnerable Australians. If One Nation say that they stand up for Australian working people, why are they not asking the federal government: 'Why have you taken $44 million a year out of support for low-income housing? And support for women who are trying to get away from domestic violence?' Why would they be silent on that and simply come here and do a 10-minute speech on foreign investment when that is not the key issue that is driving rental stress and problems for working families in this country?</para>
<para>We would also argue that we would get better results from the National Affordable Housing Agreement. There is $1.3 billion going into the National Affordable Housing Agreement every year. We would deal with that in the context of getting better results out of that money that is put into place—more accountability from the states. These are all complex issues, but issues that anyone who knows anything about the housing affordability problem would be dealing with. You would not come in here and just run us a racist line about foreign investment.</para>
<para>We would also re-establish the National Housing Supply Council and reinstate a minister for housing. The National Housing Supply Council, when it is up and running, would be able to give advice to government about how to deal with some of these issues in a more comprehensive and sophisticated way. It would actually do the analysis about what is causing the hikes in house prices and come up with policy that assists government to deal with that issue.</para>
<para>We would also reinstate a minister for housing. When the coalition came out with this so-called package of housing at the last budget, people around the country who are dealing with this issue basically dismissed it as being ineffectual and not dealing with the key issues. We certainly believe that the Foreign Investment Review Board rules currently apply a range of restrictions on foreign purchasers of property in Australia, but that is not the key issue. It is not the key issue—the key issue is the tax benefits that rich Australian get, supported by poorer Australians' tax, to go in and run negative gearing and capital gains tax concessions. That is one of the fundamental issues. A young person goes into a bidding game against someone who is getting the support of government through negative gearing and capital gains tax concessions, and they have absolutely no chance of winning that bidding war.</para>
<para>Again: when these rich people are using self-managed super funds to then boost their capacity to outbid young Australians to buy a home, that is a problem. I am sure we will hear the arguments that this is all about allowing firies, police and teachers to invest. The reality is that the bulk of the benefits from negative gearing and capital gains tax concessions go to some of the richest Liberal seats in the country. They do not go to National Party seats where people are battling. They do not go to battling Labor Party seats. They go to the richest seats in the country. Unless we deal with that unfair advantage, then coming in here and arguing about foreign investment does nothing for working families in this country.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:49</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PATERSON</name>
    <name.id>144138</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I think there is one issue on which everyone in this chamber does agree on, and that is that housing affordability is a serious issue and a serious challenge, and it is particularly affecting young people in Australia. As I have said in this chamber before, I am keenly aware of that, as a younger person myself, because it is my friends, my family and other people in my age group who are right now struggling to enter the housing market, who are struggling to save for a deposit and who are worried that they will never be able to pay off a mortgage on a home they would like to live in. So I agree with the concerns raised by fellow senators in this debate so far that housing affordability is a serious issue.</para>
<para>I might shock Senator Cameron here, but I agree with him in part as well. I agree with him that although foreign investment in housing is an issue, it is also right to say it is not the most important issue—it is not the key issue in housing affordability. That is where I disagree with One Nation senators. This government has done a number of things to ensure that foreign investment in housing is appropriate and is regulated as it should be. In a moment I will go through and document for the record some of those initiatives. But it is very misleading to come in here and to tell young people in Australia that the reason they cannot buy and cannot afford a home is that foreign investors are stopping them from doing it. The truth is, and the evidence shows, that this is only one small part of the housing affordability problem. This is a much more complex problem and a much broader problem. To come in here and give people false hope that if we somehow shut off foreign investment in housing tomorrow all of a sudden housing will become affordable and achievable for young Australians is misleading, and I think that is a wrong thing to do.</para>
<para>Where I disagree with Senator Cameron is that rich people are the people to blame for the housing affordability crisis. Rich people are not to blame for the housing affordability crisis, just like they are not to blame for non-existent crises in every other product and service market in Australia which does not have an affordability crisis. No-one comes into this chamber and talks about the national bread affordability crisis, the national milk affordability crisis or the national newspaper affordability crisis. The reason no-one comes in here and talks about an affordability crisis in those areas is because there is not an affordability crisis in those areas. The reason there is no affordability crisis in those areas is there are no artificial government restrictions on the supply of those products or services. If ever price and affordability became an issue in those markets the increasing prices would provide ample incentive for people to enter into those markets to provide those products and services and they would keep those prices under check and under control.</para>
<para>Unfortunately, that is not possible in the housing market. If ever there were a market with incentive to get into, the housing market is it. Prices have skyrocketed. There is profit there to be made. One would think rational, profit-seeking people would be leaping to get into the housing market to provide houses for people to increase the supply of homes and, in doing so, help lower the price of homes. Their inability to do so is not because of their unwillingness or a lack of interest in doing so, but it is because of the artificial restrictions governments have placed on the supply of housing.</para>
<para>The truth is, when we talk about a housing affordability crisis, what we really mean is a land affordability crisis. Yes, the home on top of the land is a bit more expensive than it used to be, but not dramatically so—not 50 per cent more expensive in one year, for example, which is the kind of price increase we have seen in my home state in the city of Melbourne, or a 60 per cent increase, as we have seen in Sydney. What accounts for that spectacular increase in price is the increase in the value of the land that sits underneath the home. It is a land affordability crisis that we have.</para>
<para>In every other market, if we had an affordability crisis, what would we do? We would seek to increase the supply of that scarce good and hope that the prices would fall, as they always do. In this market, though, governments and, particularly in this place, state governments and local governments have artificially restricted the supply of land. So people who want to supply the market and want to provide more affordable homes have less ability to do so.</para>
<para>For the record, I want to detail briefly some of the foreign investment controls that this government has put in place to respond to the concerns of the community that it is a factor influencing housing affordability. For example, in the most recent budget we limited foreign ownership in new developments. The government has ensured that dwellings in new developments in Australia will be kept available for Australians by introducing a 50 per cent cap on foreign ownership in new developments. That means that for Australians who want to buy a home in a new development, whether that is an apartment block or a housing estate, at least 50 per cent of that will be quarantined and set aside for local buyers and only 50 per cent of it can go to foreign buyers.</para>
<para>Another measure in this budget is to charge foreign owners who leave their residential properties vacant. One of the persistent concerns in the media has been that foreign investors are buying properties here in Australia and not leasing those properties and not making them available to be rented and that that is contributing to the lack of housing affordability. So one of the measures announced in the budget this year is that, if a foreign owned residential property is left vacant for more than six months in a year, a charge will be levied on that foreign owner equivalent to the foreign investment application fee which was paid at the time of application. This initiative hopes to encourage those foreign investors who might be buying homes in Australia and leaving them vacant to make them available to rent, because housing affordability is not just about purchasing a home; it is also about being able to rent a home—and the greater the availability of rental property, the better.</para>
<para>Another initiative in this budget is to improve the integrity of capital gains tax rules for foreign investors to make sure that the law is being adhered to there. We do not want foreign investors to avoid capital gains tax that they are required to pay and we do not want to encourage people to invest in homes in Australia under the false belief that they can avoid capital gains tax. They need to pay the capital gains tax that is required. We are assisting in this area by bolstering the foreign resident capital gains tax withholding regime by increasing the withholding rate from 10 per cent to 12½ per cent, as well as increasing the number of foreign residents caught in the regime by reducing the threshold from $2 million to $750,000.</para>
<para>Of course, that is not the only initiative in the budget on housing affordability. One measure which I know is particularly valued by young Australians is the First Home Super Saver Scheme, which allows them to use their superannuation account to save towards a deposit for their first home. Contrary to speculation and perhaps some fearmongering in the media, this is not a drawdown on the compulsory contributions that they pay through their income into superannuation, but it is extra contributions that they choose to make from their before-tax income above and beyond the minimum 9.25 per cent contribution that they make. They will do so in a tax concessional way which will allow them to save more quickly and to save more than they may have otherwise been able to save. We hope that that will solve one of those issues in entering the housing market. Servicing a mortgage is a difficult thing to do, but what many young people say is an even more difficult thing to do is to save a sufficient deposit to get into the housing market in the first place.</para>
<para>There are other initiatives in the budget, including a National Housing Infrastructure Facility and unlocking Commonwealth land, which is one of the few levers that the Commonwealth government has when it comes to land supply. The Commonwealth is a landholder and landowner and the government is seeking to make as much of that as possible available for home development. I think that is a really important and welcome initiative. One of them is in my home state of Victoria, in the suburb of Maribyrnong, which could build, I believe, up to 6,000 dwellings. That would be a really substantial increase in supply in an inner urban area of Melbourne. That is a really welcome initiative.</para>
<para>But, as I conclude, I think it is worth pointing out, as I have done before in this place, that overwhelmingly the levers to improve housing affordability lie with state governments and local governments. While ever they choose to artificially restrict the supply of land—both on the fringes of our cities, with urban growth boundaries, as we have in my home state of Victoria, which limit development outside of that boundary, or within urban areas by heavily restricting what one can build on a plot of land, with how long it takes to get approval and how expensive it is to do so—housing will not be as affordable as it should be. All the international evidence shows that cities around the world that have the most liberal and open land release policies and the most liberal and open development procedures and policies are also those which have the most affordable housing. There is no reason why Australia could not have that too. We have a plentiful supply of land and that will require some change in attitude from our state and local governments.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:59</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RHIANNON</name>
    <name.id>CPR</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>It is a time-honoured tactic of conservatives to scapegoat foreigners and blame them for social problems. If anyone has so far doubted that One Nation are part of the establishment, witness the xenophobia in this matter of public importance. Truly, this gives One Nation the credentials to be willing and able conservative government partners.</para>
<para>The problems in housing are real. But, as with our problems in employment, climate and infrastructure, they are not caused by so-called 'foreigners'. Blaming them is a tired and true tactic to distract from the real causes of the problem. Blaming foreigners is a characteristic of fascism. We know what the real causes of the housing crisis are. I am not for a minute deluded enough to think that facts matter to the conservative establishment. But I say to One Nation supporters, to all decent people who really want to fix these problems: do not be fooled. The facts show that the villains in housing are wealthy developers, property speculators, corrupt political decision makers and the big banks. And these villains are right here in Australia. Those that are causing these problems are in fact the constituency of conservative politicians. The only problem they are interested in solving is the perception that they do not care. They are not interested in actually providing affordable, secure homes for everyone. The evidence is in this matter of public importance. Limiting the number of new dwellings which can be purchased by foreign nonresidents will do almost nothing for the availability of affordable stable housing.</para>
<para>Of all the housing problems to pick, One Nation chooses the one that will make the least amount of difference. They could have tackled unfair tax breaks, underfunded homelessness services or underinvestment in public and community housing. But, no, they want to go for the dog-whistle option. One Nation chooses the one that makes the least amount of difference. The facts bear this out. In March, claims were made that more than one in 10 properties sold in New South Wales were bought by foreigners. However, an analysis of the data in the <inline font-style="italic">Australian Financial Review</inline> showed that only two per cent of buyers were in fact foreign tax residents. The rest of the one in 10 were in fact dual citizens, visa holders or people with long-term connections to Australia. As a reporter argued: if we mean what we say about being a country that gives migrants equal rights, there is no reason to treat them any differently. The only reason to treat them differently is if you are trying to scapegoat them to create a cowardly political distraction. So it is only two per cent of buyers in New South Wales, and this figure is almost certainly lower nationwide.</para>
<para>One might claim that foreign buyers are still pushing up prices or using up supply that could be housing people living in Australia. A 2016 Treasury report looked into this. They analysed high-demand areas in Sydney and Melbourne. They found that foreign investment added to the supply of housing. When it comes to prices, they found foreign investment only increased prices by between $80 and $122 each quarter. Compare that to the median prices of between $800,000 and $900,000. That is about 0.013 per cent. But, again, facts matter little when you want to drum up xenophobia. One Nation ignores the fact that it is wealthy domestic investors that are buying multiple properties at the expense of people seeking to buy their own home. It is mostly domestic investors that are leaving properties vacant and relying on sky-high capital gains to make money. One Nation deliberately ignores that it is their mates on the Liberal-National benches that allow and encourage wealthy domestic investors to game the system for private gain. The real problems lie not with so-called foreigners but with politicians making decisions in favour of a wealthy few.</para>
<para>The Greens want to abolish the capital gains tax discount, reform negative gearing and swap stamp duty for a fairer land tax. These measures would put those seeking a home on a more even footing with investors. We want to increase investment in public and community housing. We want to urgently give much needed funds to struggling homelessness services. We want to strengthen rights for people who rent to ensure they enjoy affordable, stable homes for life if they choose not to buy. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:05</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator KETTER</name>
    <name.id>244247</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I welcome the opportunity to contribute to what I do consider to be a matter of public importance—the issue of housing affordability. I welcome the opportunity for discussion about this. What is a matter of regret, though, is that One Nation has chosen to focus on a very narrow aspect of this issue when we know, from numerous inquiries into this matter, that housing affordability is a vexed issue. It is a complex matter: it is not just a supply issue and it is not just a demand issue; it is something that requires a lot of government attention to address. It is overly simplistic to focus on this one aspect of housing affordability.</para>
<para>I am a member of the Senate economics committee, and that committee handed down a very substantial report in 2015 on the matter of housing affordability. During the course of that committee's deliberations, there was consideration of the impact of foreign buyers on the issue of housing affordability. Although it wasn't one of the key concerns of the inquiry, it was raised by a number of witnesses during the hearings as a potential cause of recent house price inflation.</para>
<para>I note that the committee made reference to the House of Representatives Standing Committee on Economics, which held an inquiry into the subject and released a report in November 2014 that had four key findings: that there was a lack of accurate or timely data that tracks foreign investment in residential real estate; there had been a significant failure of leadership by the Foreign Investment Review Board, which was unable to provide basic compliance information to the committee about its investigations and enforcement activities; that there needed to be a greater willingness to enforce foreign investment rules in order to improve compliance; and that the Australian taxpayer currently foots the bill for the administration of FIRB and the Foreign Investment and Trade Policy Division of Treasury. There were 12 recommendations following from those particular findings.</para>
<para>The issue of foreign buyers has been looked at, but the view from the Senate economics committee was to acknowledge the complexity and urgency of housing affordability in Australia. As I said earlier, it is not really categorised as a supply-side issue or a demand-side issue but that supply is not keeping up with demand, and there is a need for policy interventions without making the matter worse. This is a complex issue. We know that there is, in fact, a crisis, and I will not reiterate some of the points that Senator Cameron has made in respect of some of the key aspects of the crisis that we are confronting.</para>
<para>I want to dwell on a couple of the Labor plans for addressing this issue. Of course, chief amongst those is the plan to reform negative gearing and capital gains tax concessions. It is a matter of record that Labor is the only party with the courage to come forward with a policy that is going to make some inroads into this particular issue. We admit it is not the be-all and end-all of the response, but many quite credible economists and commentators have identified that these tax distortions are causing the exacerbation of the problem. It is a matter of regret for public policy that, with Labor having held out the opportunity for a bipartisan position on this—and despite the fact that the former Treasurer and the current Treasurer have expressed their concerns about negative gearing and identified it as a particular issue—for base political reasons, the coalition has decided not to take up the lead of Labor in this area. I think it is a matter of great disappointment. I also note that One Nation has not supported the brave proposal to reform negative gearing and capital gains tax concessions.</para>
<para>We have also proposed a number of other measures. Increasing foreign investor fees and penalties is another one—I will turn to that in a bit more detail—and re-establishing the National Housing Supply Council, which was abolished by the Abbott government on 8 November 2013. If there is one, I suppose, indicator of the lack of commitment from those opposite on this issue and trying to address this issue, it is that, as a way of addressing what was then referred to as the budget emergency, the coalition, as one of its first major steps, abolished a number of its non-statutory bodies, including the National Housing Supply Council, which had been formed back in May of 2008.</para>
<para>The council comprised a number of experts of a diverse range of relevant fields, including academia, finance, economics, urban development, residential construction, urban planning and social housing sectors. The council's role was to provide estimates, projections, analysis and policy advice in relation to housing supply and demand. So, in abolishing this body, the government quite clearly demonstrated its lack of interest in this matter and, I think, stands condemned as a result of that.</para>
<para>Currently, the Foreign Investment Review Board rules apply a range of restrictions on foreign purchases of property in Australia, including a general restriction on the purchase of existing dwellings—although there are some exemptions to that. While foreign investment purchases account for a relatively low amount of overall purchases each year, FIRB data does show that the number of foreign investment purchases has grown by about 275 per cent over the three years to 2014-15.</para>
<para>As I mentioned earlier, one of the measures that Labor is proposing is to increase application fees for foreign investment in residential real estate. So we would actually double the application fees that currently apply, and what we proposed is that from 1 July 2019, for properties of a million dollars or less, the current fee of $5,000 would be doubled to $10,000; over a million dollars and up to $2 million, the current fee would be increased—as I say, doubled—to $20,200; and between $2 million and less than $3 million, the new fee would be $40,600 Those fees would then in our proposal continue to be indexed by the CPI.</para>
<para>We also proposed increased penalties for breaching the Foreign Investment Review Board rules. That would mean that, for foreign buyers who acquire new or existing dwellings without approval, we would increase the criminal penalty to $270,000 and $1.35 million for a company; and increase the civil penalty to be the greater of the following: the 20 per cent of the purchase price in addition to the relevant application fee or 20 per cent of the market value of the property in addition to the relevant application fee.</para>
<para>We would also double the maximum financial penalties for a number of other breaches including where, for example, a nonresident acquired an established property or a temporary resident acquired more than one established property; and a range of other breaches which I will mention: where a temporary resident fails to sell established property when it ceases to be their principal residence; if a temporary resident rents out an established property; failure to complete construction within four years without seeking an extension; where a developer fails to market apartments in Australia; where a property developer fails to comply with reporting conditions associated with an approval; and where a foreign person fails to comply with reporting conditions which require them to notify actual purchase and sale of established properties. So these are some of the more effective ways that we can deal with this issue. Establishing these penalties sends a very clear signal that breaches in this area will not be tolerated. These are the ways to address housing affordability. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:15</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator IAN MACDONALD</name>
    <name.id>YW4</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>It is good that this time of debating in the Senate chamber has taken on a very serious subject today. Too often in these matters of public importance we are debating motions put up by the Greens political party, which are simply based on fantasy and which never have any factual base to them. I congratulate the One Nation Party for at least putting forward for discussion in this Senate a motion on the important issue of housing for Australians and the limits that need to be placed on some of the acquisitions by foreign non-residents.</para>
<para>The government will place a limit on foreign ownership in new developments. We will introduce an annual charge on foreign owners who buy residential property and leave it vacant and we will tighten the foreign investor tax integrity rules to reduce avoidance of capital gains tax on Australian property. I intend to elaborate on those three initiatives that the government is already putting in place, if time permits, but first of all can I say that I listened with interest to what Senator Ketter from the Australian Labor Party said. I always wonder with the Australian Labor Party that they were in office for six years—six terribly long years, I might say—and never once did they do anything to seriously address the issues which Senator Ketter says now a Labor government would put in place.</para>
<para>Home ownership, particularly for young Australians, is an important issue; it is a goal for all Australians to own their own homes, but it becomes very difficult if the broader parameters are not in order. I remember when I was buying a home and, admittedly, it was now some time ago—in the days of the Hawke and Keating administration of our country. I say this as often as I can, because people do not believe me when I say that I was paying 17 per cent interest on my housing loan in the Labor years. That was when Paul Keating said that we had to have a recession and the Labor Party was, as they are now, promising everything to everybody and spending wildly without having any idea of where the money was coming from and borrowing money from overseas. As a result of Labor's mismanagement at the time, I and other young home buyers—and I was young in those days—were paying 17 per cent interest on my housing loan. Of course, business loans in those days were above 20 per cent.</para>
<para>Fortunately, those days are gone, and there is encouragement for young people in some of the initiatives of this government to acquire a house and pay it off over their lifetime. Of course, to do that or to even contemplate acquiring a house, one must have a job. Again, under Labor administrations, we found unemployment very high. Regrettably, at the moment in my home state of Queensland, unemployment is unacceptably high in the city of Townsville, where I have my office. I am embarrassed to say that we currently have the record for the highest unemployment. It means that there will be a lot of people in Townsville who will not even be able to think about buying a house, and those who have in recent years purchased a house at values are now finding it extremely difficult to continue with payments and to maintain the value of their house when it was acquired during the time of the Gillard-Rudd administration.</para>
<para>It is important that governments not only look at the direct issue of housing affordability and what might be causing the problems that we see, particularly in the major capital cities these days, but also address the wider economic position of Australia so that we can get the fundamentals right, so that we can get people into jobs so that we can get the economy going reasonably well. That is why I can never understand why the Greens political party, in particular, are always attacking the job creation policies of coalition governments. The Adani issue is a classic and very recent issue about that. Adani will create jobs. It will boost the economy of Queensland. It will provide for economic growth in the North of our country, yet the Greens are totally opposed to it. They are trying to use every trick in the parliamentary book to stop that process from proceeding. Fortunately, today, I was delighted to see that the native title amendment bill was passed, which was the last legal impediment to the Adani coalmine. The Senate graciously—well, almost graciously—adopted a motion congratulating the federal government and the minister and also the Queensland government and the Premier on their leadership in bringing those job prospects to a part of Queensland that desperately needs them.</para>
<para>I did mention in relation to this motion brought forward by Senator Hanson that the government is already acting on the things that Senator Hanson mentioned in her initial contribution. We do not necessarily agree with Senator Hanson in what she is proposing, and I have made that clear. But I do again thank her for raising this important issue for discussion.</para>
<para>The government will ensure that dwellings in Australia are kept available for Australians by introducing a 50 per cent cap on foreign ownership in new developments. This will be applied through conditions imposed on new dwelling exemption certificates. These new dwelling exemption certificates are granted to property developers and act as a pre-approval, allowing for the sale of new dwellings in a specified development to foreign persons, without each foreign purchaser seeking their own foreign investment approval. The current certificates do not limit the proportion of dwellings that can be sold to foreign investors. What we are doing will strengthen the existing rules that apply to certificates where the government considers whether developers market or advertise the development in Australia. The new 50 per cent cap builds on existing rules to ensure Australian buyers have access to a greater pool of homes to buy in these new developments. Developments have to be multistorey and have at least 50 dwellings. From budget night, developers who are granted a new dwelling exemption certificate will be subject to a condition which limits the sale to foreign investors of new dwellings in that development to 50 per cent. it is a budget measure that is just one of the steps which the government is taking. I did mention at the beginning of my contribution that we are also going to charge foreign owners who leave their residential properties vacant a fee, and we are going to improve the integrity of capital gains tax rules for foreign investors.</para>
<para>Unfortunately, I am not going to have time in the time allotted to me in this debate to go into the detail of those two issues, suffice to say that they will make a difference and they do demonstrate that the coalition government, the Turnbull government is taking real steps forward to address the problem identified in this motion.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:25</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ROBERTS</name>
    <name.id>266524</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>As a servant to the people of Queensland and Australia, I rise to speak to Senator Hanson's important MPI—the need to limit the number of new dwellings which can be purchased by foreign non-residents. Buying a home is the single biggest investment in most people's lives. As the first rung on the ladder to home ownership, the first home purchase is the single most important step people can take towards financial security and independence. What homeownership comes down to is the principle that Australians can own a share of our own country. The very idea that successive governments have allowed this to be put at risk by foreigners is utterly repugnant. The birthright of ordinary Australian working families is being stolen by foreigners, aided by incompetent governments. We had a mining boom yet how many young people these days can afford to buy their own house thanks to energy policies, overregulation and tax that is destroying investment and destroying employment, disrupting markets and smashing freedom?</para>
<para>As our leader has informed the Senate, in 2014-15 alone, over 17 per cent of all new residential properties in New South Wales and over 15 per cent in Victoria were bought by foreign—that is, mainly Chinese—buyers. As these were concentrated in Sydney and Melbourne, this means that around 30 per cent to 40 per cent of all new properties in the cities are now bought by foreigners. And where are house prices rising most quickly? Sydney and Melbourne. Where are most immigrants and most foreign purchasers? Sydney and Melbourne. This is a shocking yet totally deplorable fact that around 30 per cent to 40 per cent of all new properties in these cities are now bought by foreigners. Anyone who imagines that adding up to 40 per cent of extra buyers to a market of limited supply does not drive up prices are economic troglodytes.</para>
<para>Never mind negative gearing, it is clear that it is foreign Chinese property speculators together with the flood of new immigrants that are pushing up house price and locking Aussies out of buying a home. Do you remember Kevin Rudd? How could anyone forget Kevin Rudd? Prior to Kevin Rudd, changing the foreign investment rules nearly 10 years ago to allow open slather buying up of Australia properties by foreign owners would have been illegal. The ALP and former Prime Minister Kevin Rudd were too busy buying headlines, flinging billions of dollars around and claiming the greatest moral threat—based on a lie—while people were homeless.</para>
<para>In the words of our leader, Senator Hanson, we need to slash immigration numbers. We need to limit all foreign buyers to just one property and actually enforce the law to prevent foreigners buying any established homes. We at Pauline Hanson's One Nation have the courage to say what people think, the courage to cut the number of immigrants and also to raise the discussion on the quality of immigration. We also need all foreign owned empty properties, whose darkened windows blight the Sydney and Melbourne landscapes and skylines, to be returned to the marketplace. What was the government's response to this in the budget? Senator Hanson has already discussed that—tokenism, window-dressing, like so many ineffectual Turnbull budget measures that will have no effect. How much will it cost to enforce this window dressing? How much more regulation will cripple buyers of houses?</para>
<para>So what is the government's response to date? It is to talk about the supply side and to say that it is a state problem. Yes, supply is obviously a part of the equation. However, the other side of soaring prices of the demand problem is firmly the result of federal government policies. The demand problem is all about unrestricted foreign speculators and too many immigrants. Unlike some members and senators who will sell out this country and its interests for a fistful of yuan, One Nation will stand up for the birthright of Australian workers. Just as One Nation senators will never take a plum $900,000 a year job on retirement in return for selling our vital strategic assets to China and just as we will never take a bribe to support Chinese military aggression and the illegal seizure of another nation's territory, so too One Nation will never betray the right of Aussie working families to own their own home. If Chinese investors dare to complain about One Nation's unapologetically nationalist policies, they need only look to their own government that does the same. You and I cannot buy property in mainland China, so why should we let the Chinese snap up all our property here? We should not.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>00AOP</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The time for this debate has now expired.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>3907</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Regulations and Ordinances Committee</title>
          <page.no>3907</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Delegated Legislation Monitor</title>
            <page.no>3907</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:30</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SMITH</name>
    <name.id>241710</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>On behalf of the Chair of the Standing Committee on Regulations and Ordinances, Senator Williams, I present the Delegated Legislation Monitor 6 of 2017.</para>
<para>Ordered that the report be printed.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Economics Legislation Committee</title>
          <page.no>3907</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Report</title>
            <page.no>3907</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:31</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SMITH</name>
    <name.id>241710</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>On behalf the Chair of the Economics Legislation Committee, Senator Hume, I present the report <inline font-style="italic">Treasury Laws Amendment (Foreign Resident Capital Gains Withholding Payments) Bill 2017 [Provisions]</inline>, together with the documents presented to the committee.</para>
<para>Ordered that the report be printed.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Parliamentary Joint Committee on Human Rights</title>
          <page.no>3907</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Report</title>
            <page.no>3907</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:31</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SMITH</name>
    <name.id>241710</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>On behalf of the Parliamentary Joint Committee on Human Rights, I present the <inline font-style="italic">Human Rights Scrutiny Report 5 of 2017</inline> and I seek leave to have the tabling statement of the Parliamentary Joint Committee on Human Rights incorporated into <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline>.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">The document read as follows—</inline></para>
<quote><para class="block">I rise to speak to the tabling of the Parliamentary Joint Committee on Human Rights' <inline font-style="italic">Human Rights Scrutiny Report 5 of 2017</inline>.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In accordance with the committee's legislative mandate under section 7(a) of the <inline font-style="italic">Human Rights (Parliamentary Scrutiny) Act 2011 </inline>the committee examines the compatibility of recent bills and legislative instruments with Australia's obligations under international human rights law.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">A key purpose of the scrutiny report is to provide parliament with credible analysis about the human rights implications of legislation. The report is therefore a technical examination and does not assess the broader merits or policy objectives of particular measures.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The committee receives legal advice in relation to the human rights compatibility of legislation. It is served by an external legal adviser to the committee and secretariat staff.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Committee members performing a scrutiny function are not, and have never been, bound by the contents or conclusions of scrutiny committee reports. Like all parliamentarians, committee members are free to engage in debates over the policy merits of legislation according to the dictates of party, conscience, belief or outlook. Scrutiny committee members may, and often do, have different views in relation to the policy merits of legislation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The vast majority of new bills considered in this report – thirty four – were assessed as promoting human rights, permissibly limiting human rights or not engaging human rights. These thirty four bills are therefore listed as raising no human rights concerns.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The committee is also seeking further information from legislation proponents in relation to five bills and legislative instruments. The committee requests additional information where a statement of compatibility has not adequately addressed human rights matters.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">A comprehensive statement of compatibility not only assists legislation proponents to think through the impact of the legislation on human rights, but may also permit the committee to conclude that a measure constitutes a permissible limitation on human rights.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">For example, a new bill which could be classified as raising no concerns was the Education Legislation Amendment (Provider Integrity and Other Measures) Bill 2017, which increased compliance requirements in the vocational education and training sector. The statement of compatibility clearly acknowledged potential limitations to the rights to education, work and privacy, but provided enough information to justify these limitations under human rights law.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I encourage my fellow senators and others to examine the report to enhance their understanding of the committee's work.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">With these comments, I commend the committee's Report 5 of 2017 to the Senate.</para></quote>
<para>Ordered that the report be printed.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Scrutiny of Bills Committee</title>
          <page.no>3908</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Scrutiny Digest</title>
            <page.no>3908</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:32</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DASTYARI</name>
    <name.id>225099</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>On behalf of the Chair of the Scrutiny of Bills Committee, Senator Polley, I present <inline font-style="italic">Scrutiny D</inline><inline font-style="italic">igest 6 of 2017</inline>.</para>
<para>Ordered that the report be printed.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Corporations and Financial Services Committee</title>
          <page.no>3908</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Report</title>
            <page.no>3908</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:32</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DASTYARI</name>
    <name.id>225099</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>On behalf of Senator O'Neill, the Deputy Chair of the Parliamentary Joint Committee on Corporations and Financial Services, I present the report of the committee <inline font-style="italic">2015-16 annual reports of bodies established under the ASIC Act</inline>, together with the <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline> record of proceedings and documents presented to the committee.</para>
<para>Ordered that the report be printed.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DASTYARI</name>
    <name.id>225099</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate take note of the report.</para></quote>
<para>I seek leave to continue my remarks.</para>
<para>Leave granted; Debate adjourned.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>3908</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Video Games Industry</title>
          <page.no>3908</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>3908</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:33</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I table a document relating to the order for the production of documents concerning the government's response to the report of the Environment and Communications References Committee on Australia's video gaming development industry.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>3909</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Environment and Communications Legislation Committee, Joint Standing Committee on Treaties</title>
          <page.no>3909</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Membership</title>
            <page.no>3909</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:33</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>00AOP</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The President has received letters requesting changes in the membership of committees.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:33</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That senators be discharged from and appointed to committees as follows:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Environment and Communications Legislation Committee—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Appointed—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Substitute member: Senator Paterson to replace Senator Reynolds for the committee’s inquiry into the Australian Broadcasting Corporation Amendment (Restoring Shortwave Radio) Bill 2017 on Friday, 16 June 2017</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Participating member: Senator Reynolds</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Treaties—Joint Standing Committee—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Discharged—Senator Hanson-Young</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Appointed—Senator Ludlam.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BILLS</title>
        <page.no>3909</page.no>
        <type>BILLS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Criminal Code Amendment (Protecting Minors Online) Bill 2017</title>
          <page.no>3909</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" style="" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" background="" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture">
            <a type="Bill" href="r5857">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Criminal Code Amendment (Protecting Minors Online) Bill 2017</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>First Reading</title>
            <page.no>3909</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:34</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill may proceed without formalities and be now read a first time.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a first time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>3909</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:34</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill be now read a second time.</para></quote>
<para>I seek leave to have the second reading speech incorporated in <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline>.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">The speech read as follows—</inline></para>
<quote><para class="block">This Government is committed to preventing harm to children, both in person or online. Such harm, including sexual exploitation of children, is devastating to the children involved, their families, and their communities.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The introduction of the Protecting Minors Online Bill follows the murder of 15 year old Carly Ryan by a 50 year old man who posed online as a teenage boy.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">2017 marks the 10 year anniversary since this tragic event and Carly's mother has worked tirelessly since then to protect children online. Through the introduction of this Bill, Carly's mother has achieved the outcome of a law to better protect young Australians in the online world. I am proud to have worked with Sonya Ryan to develop a measure that is effective and recognises Carly's legacy. I would also like to acknowledge the work and support that the Senator Nick Xenophon and his Team has provided in the development of this Bill.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government has a duty to ensure that, with ever evolving technology and expanding communication methods, Commonwealth laws provide a deterrent and a sound basis for prosecuting offenders who would do children harm.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Protecting Minors Online Bill sends a clear message: this behaviour will not be tolerated. Australian children must be safe to grow, explore and develop online as 'in real life', and we will protect these spaces for them.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Rapidly evolving technologies and the anonymity that the internet provides have resulted in unprecedented opportunities for harm to and sexual exploitation of children. Our laws need to keep pace with the speed of technological change and the way that technology is used. This government has a demonstrated history of protecting children online through the enactment of a range of offences directed at the use of carriage services, such as the internet and mobile phones, for the sexual exploitation of children.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill represents a further step to protect Australian children from those who would do them harm.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The introduction of the Bill improves protection of children online by introducing a new offence that complements existing online child sex offences for preparatory conduct, including grooming or procuring a child for sexual activity. The Bill extends the criminalisation of the use of the internet and social media as a forum for predators to groom or procure our children to engage in sexual activity to a broader range of conduct.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This offence builds upon the proactive policing of online child sex offences, allowing law enforcement to take action against online predators sooner and with greater consequence.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill introduces a tough new offence for adults preparing or planning to cause harm to, procure, or engage in sexual activity with a child and may be punished by up to 10 years imprisonment. Importantly, this will include those who misrepresent their age as a step towards causing harm to a child.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Conclusion</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill will ensure young Australians have greater protection from online predators and serve as a significant deterrent to those who would do them harm.</para></quote>
<para>Debate adjourned.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Enhancing Online Safety for Children Amendment Bill 2017, Ozone Protection and Synthetic Greenhouse Gas Management Legislation Amendment Bill 2017, Treasury Laws Amendment (GST Low Value Goods) Bill 2017</title>
          <page.no>3910</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" style="" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" background="" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture">
            <p>
              <a type="Bill" href="r5794">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Enhancing Online Safety for Children Amendment Bill 2017</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <a type="Bill" href="r5849">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Ozone Protection and Synthetic Greenhouse Gas Management Legislation Amendment Bill 2017</span>
                </p>
              </a>
            </p>
            <a type="Bill" href="r5819">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Treasury Laws Amendment (GST Low Value Goods) Bill 2017</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>First Reading</title>
            <page.no>3910</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:36</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>These bills are being introduced together. After debate on the motion for the second reading has been adjourned I shall move a motion to have the bills listed separately on the <inline font-style="italic">Notice Paper</inline>. I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That these bills may proceed without formalities, may be taken together and be now read a first time.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bills read a first time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>3911</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:36</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That these bills be now read a second time.</para></quote>
<para>I seek leave to have the second reading speeches incorporated in <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline>.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">The speeches read as follows—</inline></para>
<quote><para class="block">ENHANCING ONLINE SAFETY FOR CHILDREN AMENDMENT BILL 2017</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Enhancing Online Safety for Children Amendment Bill contains important amendments to implement the Government's announcement of 23 November 2016 to broaden the general functions of the Children's eSafety Commissioner to cover online safety for all Australians, not just Australian children.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill will also change the name of the Children's eSafety Commissioner (the Commissioner) to the eSafety Commissioner, to reflect the expanded general functions.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The expansion of the Commissioner's general functions, as proposed by the Bill, will allow the Commissioner to take on a broader online safety role and carry out important work on the Government's election commitments relating to women's safety and to online safety for older Australians.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill amendments address feedback received by the Government that adult members of the public are not aware that they can go to the Children's eSafety Commissioner for assistance with concerns around illegal or offensive online content, the sharing of intimate images without consent – commonly referred to as 'revenge porn', or for general advice about how to manage technology risks and online safety.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">There are already a broad range of existing functions performed by the Commissioner that go beyond online safety for children. The Commissioner has a wealth of expertise in technology use and in developing educational, promotional and community awareness programs on online safety for children for a wide range of audiences.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Expanding the Commissioner's role and changing the name of the Children's eSafety Commissioner to the eSafety Commissioner will make it easier for the public to identify where they can seek assistance and advice in relation to a range of online safety issues, irrespective of age.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill will make minor consequential amendments to five other Acts to reflect the change to the Act's short title and the change in name of the statutory office of the Commissioner. These Act are:</para></quote>
<list>the <inline font-style="italic">Australian Communications and Media Authority Act 2005</inline>;</list>
<list>the <inline font-style="italic">Telecommunications Act 1997</inline>;</list>
<list>the <inline font-style="italic">Broadcasting Services Act 1992;</inline></list>
<list>the <inline font-style="italic">Criminal Code Act 1995</inline>; and</list>
<list>the <inline font-style="italic">Freedom of Information Act 1982</inline>.</list>
<quote><para class="block">The Commissioner's responsibilities for administering the online content scheme under the <inline font-style="italic">Broadcasting Services Act 1992 </inline>remain unchanged by the Bill. The statutory scheme for complaints about cyberbullying material on social media services will also remain unchanged and will continue to only relate to material that is targeted at, and harmful to, an Australian child.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The statutory office of the Children's eSafety Commissioner has been in place since 1 July 2015. The office was created by the <inline font-style="italic">Enhancing Online Safety for Children Act 2015</inline>.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Office of the Children's eSafety Commissioner has been a huge success by any measure and the Government is looking to build upon this success and help to improve the online experiences of all Australians.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Achievements of the Office of the Children</inline> <inline font-style="italic">'</inline> <inline font-style="italic">s eSafety Commissioner</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Since its establishment, the Office of the Children's eSafety Commissioner has:</para></quote>
<list>finalised over 320 complaints about serious cyberbullying that targeted Australian children;</list>
<list>worked with 11 major social media service providers to counter cyberbullying;</list>
<list>certified 23 online safety program providers with more than 115 presenters delivering programs in Australian schools;</list>
<list>finalised over 15,000 investigations into online content including over 9,000 investigations into online child sexual abuse content;</list>
<list>reached over 92,000 students and teachers through its virtual classroom program;</list>
<list>had over 3.3 million website page views;</list>
<list>made the iParent portal available to parents, providing advice on a range of online safety and digital content issues; and</list>
<list>launched the eSafetyWomen site with resources and advice for women, and provided training for more than 1,200 frontline professionals across every state and territory to help women experiencing technology-facilitated abuse.</list>
<quote><para class="block">The Office's role has already expanded since its establishment, recognising that staff have a wealth of expertise in all areas of online safety which should be put to good use.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">For example, in December 2015 the functions of the Commissioner were expanded to include online safety for women at risk of domestic violence.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Commissioner also manages the existing <inline font-style="italic">eSafetyWomen</inline> website, established with a $2.1 million funding commitment from the Government's Women's Safety Package announced in September 2015. <inline font-style="italic">eSafetyWomen</inline> offers a range of resources to help women manage technology risks and abuse by giving them the tools and information they need to encourage confidence and safety online.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government recognises that there are other groups within the community that can benefit from the expertise of the Commissioner's office.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Prior to the 2016 federal election, the Government committed to provide additional support for victims of non-consensual sharing of intimate images – commonly referred to as 'revenge porn', and to improve the digital confidence and online safety of older Australians.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"><inline font-style="italic">Improving the digital confidence and skills of older Australians</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government is committed to ensuring older Australians have the digital skills and knowledge to take advantage of new technology and stay connected with loved ones online.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Around 80 per cent of Australians own a smartphone and thousands more own a tablet and other smart devices.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Despite this strong take-up, only around 20 per cent of older Australians own a smartphone. Older Australians often cite a lack of confidence and knowledge as one of the key reasons for not participating online.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Turnbull Coalition is committed to bridging this digital divide. The Government is investing $50 million to improve the digital literacy of older Australians and improve their safety online.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Children's eSafety Commissioner is working with the Department of Social Services to develop a digital inclusion and online safety strategy for older Australians.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Like many Australians, face-to-face contact remains an important form of engagement for older Australians. But the convenience of technology provides an additional avenue to keep older Australians connected, especially to family and friends.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government is ensuring that older Australians who have access to existing devices will be supported to learn how to take full advantage to keep in touch and stay connected.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Smart devices provide unparalleled opportunities for older Australians to continue to participate fully in our society. They provide opportunities for grandparents to stay connected to their families and grandchildren, and for older Australians to retain their independence.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government will leverage existing community infrastructure such as libraries, retirement villages, community centres, and aged care facilities to support older Australians develop the confidence and skills they need to stay connected.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Government's measures will include:</para></quote>
<list>The development of an overarching digital literacy and online safety strategy for older Australians;</list>
<list>Delivering free or low-cost one-on-one, face to face digital training and support to older Australians, including a helpline;</list>
<list>One-off, small grant funding to assist community organisations with the delivery of coaching or training and support to older Australians;</list>
<list>A communications and marketing campaign to raise awareness among older Australians and their families of the benefits of connecting online and how to access support;</list>
<list>A national digital portal to provide a one-stop-shop for information, tools and training materials;</list>
<list>National digital and smart device training materials and tools, including online safety and outreach train-the-trainer programs, for use by families, friends, peers and community organisations; and</list>
<list>A seniors and schools intergenerational mentor program to bring school students and seniors (in aged care facilities) together to promote relevance and usefulness of technology.</list>
<quote><para class="block">The Turnbull Coalition is committed to supporting older Australians and ensuring they have the skills to participate in our modern digital economy.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Additional support for victims of non-consensual sharing of intimate images</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Coalition's commitment to keeping women and children safe from domestic and family violence is comprehensive, multi-faceted and unwavering.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government recognises that the sharing of intimate images without consent, commonly referred to as 'revenge porn', is emerging as an issue of great concern in the community.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">That's why this Government has put the issue on the Council of Australian Governments' agenda to ensure that the Commonwealth and states and territories are working together to ensure there is a coordinated approach.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government will also conduct a public consultation process on a proposed civil penalties regime targeted at both perpetrators and sites which host intimate images and videos shared without consent.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">A discussion paper will be released in the near future and feedback will be sought from the eSafety Commissioner, Federal and State police, women's safety organisations, mental health experts, schools and education departments, the Online Safety Consultative Working Group and others.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Impacts on individual</inline> <inline font-style="italic">'</inline> <inline font-style="italic">s rights and freedoms, including freedom of speech and privacy</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It is important to note that these amendments to change the Commissioner's statutory functions only relate to the general, or 'soft', functions of the Commissioner and do not relate to the statutory scheme for complaints about cyberbullying material, which will continue to only relate to material that is targeted at, and harmful to, an Australian child.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The amendments do not create any new offences or civil penalties, provide any new regulatory powers, impose any taxes, or set any amounts to be appropriated from the Consolidated Revenue Fund.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Conclusion</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Children's eSafety Commissioner has been a huge success in enhancing online safety for Australian children.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The amendments proposed will assist the good work of the Commissioner to continue to have a positive impact on a broader range of vulnerable Australians, including older Australians, victims of domestic and family violence, and for people who have had intimate images shared without their consent.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I commend this Bill to the Senate and look forward to implementing the next stages of the Government's agenda to promote the online safety of all Australians, and to work across government, the private sector and in the community to allow all Australians to enjoy safe and positive experiences online.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">OZONE PROTECTION AND SYNTHETIC GREENHOUSE GAS MANAGEMENT LEGISLATION AMENDMENT BILL 2017</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill will amend the <inline font-style="italic">Ozone Protection and Synthetic Greenhouse Gas Management Act 1989</inline>, which implements Australia's obligations under the <inline font-style="italic">Montreal Protocol on Substances that Deplete the Ozone Layer</inline>.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It will improve the efficiency of the ozone protection and synthetic gas management program, achieve significant environmental outcomes and reduce Australia's emissions.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill implements the outcomes of a significant review of the program, streamlining the administration of the Act, reducing burdens on industry and ensuring a high standard of environmental protection. It will reduce the number of businesses required to hold a licence, halve the reporting obligations and reduce the number of invoices sent by 94 per cent.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The central element of this Bill is an 85 per cent phase-down of the importation of hydrofluorocarbons (HFCs) by 2036.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">HFCs are powerful gases, primarily used in the air-conditioning and refrigeration industry, that can be thousands of times more potent than carbon dioxide, making up around 2% of Australia's yearly emissions.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The phase-down will be achieved by establishing a quota scheme and diminishing cap on imports starting on 1 January 2018. A similar approach was used successfully to phase-out prior gases such as CFCs and HCFCs.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This phase-down will be in line with the Kigali Amendment, under which all 197 parties to the Montreal Protocol agreed to phase down HFCs.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australia played a leadership role, co-chairing negotiations to secure this global agreement, culminating in October 2016, and I pay tribute to my predecessor, the Member for Flinders, in this regard.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The phase-down, together with other measures included under this program, will reduce emissions by up to 80 million carbon dioxide equivalent tonnes by 2030. This will contribute significantly towards our Paris target.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Globally, the HFC phase-down is expected to bring major benefits. It could result in 72 billion tonnes of emissions reduction by 2050 – the equivalent of at least 1.3 times one year's global emissions. And it has been estimated it will avoid up to 0.5 degrees of temperature rises by 2100, according to the United Nations Environment Programme.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian market is well placed for this domestic phase-down and industry supports the measures. Consumers will be able to use their existing equipment and systems until the natural end-of-life. The phase-down will also leave a 15 per cent residual from 2036 to ensure that maintenance of hard to replace and existing equipment can continue.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australia has a proud record of leadership in addressing ozone depletion and issues related to the Montreal Protocol. It is widely considered the world's most successful environmental protection agreement, being the only one with universal acceptance.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It has reduced the production and import of ozone depleting chemicals by over 99 per cent globally. Concentrations of ozone depleting chemicals in the atmosphere are reducing and scientists confidently predict the ozone layer will be repaired by the middle of this century in the mid-latitudes and about 20 years later in Antarctica. A truly remarkable achievement.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Through this Bill, Australia will continue to show the same leadership on HFCs. I commend it to the House.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">TREASURY LAWS AMENDMENT (GST LOW VALUE GOODS) BILL 2017</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill being introduced today is an important part of the Government's commitment to creating a fairer tax system, supporting our small businesses and creating a level playing field for all Australian businesses.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill fulfils the Government's commitment to extend the application of GST to low value goods imported by Australian consumers from 1 July 2017. It also gives effect to the agreement of the Council of Australian Governments in 2015 to extend GST to low value imported goods.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">These changes are about ensuring that Australian businesses, particularly small retailers, do not continue to be unfairly disadvantaged by the current GST exemption that applies to imports of low value goods.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Importantly, this Bill also tackles the growing risk that the current arrangements pose to the integrity of the GST base. With the continued growth and normalisation of cross-border shopping, we cannot afford to simply ignore the impact of these outdated arrangements on the tax system.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">As a result of the reforms being introduced today, low value goods imported by consumers will face the same tax regime as goods that are sourced domestically. This is how a fair and modern tax system should work and I am proud that Australia is taking the lead in this respect.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Under the current GST law, GST will generally apply to supplies of goods within Australia regardless of the value of the goods. However, supplies of goods located outside of Australia will generally not be subject to GST. Further, while the importation of goods is generally subject to GST, a $1,000 low value threshold exemption applies.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The GST low value threshold exemption disadvantages Australian businesses and jobs, and poses a growing risk to the integrity of the GST base, with the continued growth in online shopping.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government, with the support of the States and Territories, is absolutely committed to applying the GST to low value goods imported for consumption into Australia by 1 July 2017. It will stop the unfair and distortionary benefit enjoyed by foreign sellers since the introduction of the GST in 2000.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Under these new arrangements, imported goods with a customs value of $1,000 or under will have GST collected at the point of sale, using a vendor registration model. Under this model, overseas vendors that have an Australian turnover of $75,000 or more will be required to register for, collect and remit GST on low value goods supplied to consumers in Australia as well as any other taxable supplies they make.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This measure will also apply to online marketplaces – also called 'electronic distribution platforms' or EDPs in the Bill. Online marketplaces that assist in the importation of goods into Australia, will essentially be treated as a 'supplier' under this measure, and be required to register for, collect and remit GST.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Including online marketplaces ensures that only a limited number of entities need to collect the GST, rather than the multitude of small, individual vendors making supplies through these online marketplaces. This represents the most efficient system for collecting GST and limits the costs of compliance.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This measure also extends to 'redeliverers'. Redeliverers are often used by Australian consumers in cases where the overseas retailers do not deliver to Australia. The redeliverers provide offshore mailbox or shopping services in relation to the goods and then assist with their delivery into Australia. Redeliverers will be affected by this measure where the actual supplier would not be liable for GST because of a lack of knowledge about the ultimate destination of the supply, due to involvement of a redeliverer. In such cases, the redeliverer is the entity that is best placed to know the status of the goods and the location to which they are delivered.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">A simplified online GST registration system will also be available for non-resident suppliers of goods. This simplified registration system will help non-residents comply with these new rules.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In August 2015, the Council on Federal Financial Relations agreed to the vendor registration model, commencing 1 July 2017. The Government has also consulted extensively on the design of the registration model. Public consultation on the draft legislation was also undertaken last year.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">These changes build on the Government's 2015-16 Budget measure – which is now law – to apply the GST to digital products and other services imported by consumers from 1 July 2017, also using a vendor registration model.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We now live in a world where online cross-border shopping is a normal and often daily activity for many Australians. This reform to Australia's GST is a significant world first but it is consistent with the direction of international tax policy in this area.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It is only a matter of time until others jurisdictions follow suit. In 2015, the OECD examined and reported on options to move away from cost-intensive border collection processes including for low value goods. Australia's reforms align with the most effective elements of that report to deliver a new reality for taxation of trade in Australia.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The European Union also announced late last year that it too will reform its treatment of imported low value goods. They too recognise that there can be no substantive reform without a key focus on the taxation of goods by the supplier at the point of sale.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">With this Bill, Australia is leading the way in delivering a GST collection model that is fit for our modern world. Importantly, this measure will finally stop the unfair and distortionary GST low value exemption enjoyed by foreign sellers since the introduction of the GST in 2000 – establishing a level playing field for our domestic retailers and protecting the integrity of our GST base.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Full details of the measure are contained in the explanatory memorandum.</para></quote>
<para>Debate adjourned.</para>
<para>Ordered that the bills be listed on the <inline font-style="italic">Notice Paper</inline> as separate orders of the day.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>3917</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Education and Employment Legislation Committee</title>
          <page.no>3917</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Report</title>
            <page.no>3917</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:37</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SMITH</name>
    <name.id>241710</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>On behalf of the Chair of the Education and Employment Legislation Committee, Senator McKenzie, I present the report of the committee on the provisions of the Australian Education Amendment Bill 2017, together with the <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline> record of proceedings and documents presented to the committee.</para>
<para>Ordered that the report be printed.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>3917</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Video Games Industry</title>
          <page.no>3917</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>3917</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:37</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LUDLAM</name>
    <name.id>I07</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I wish to seek leave. Apologies to the chamber; I was a couple of moments delayed. I do not know who it was, but on behalf of Senator Fifield a response was tabled—a very brief one—to my order for the production of documents on our unanimous Senate inquiry report into the video game industry. I just wanted to take note of that, if it is the will of the chamber.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>00AOP</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>So you are seeking leave to move to take note of that response?</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LUDLAM</name>
    <name.id>I07</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>With some trepidation, yes.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>00AOP</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Is leave granted? There is no objection, so leave is granted, Senator Ludlam.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LUDLAM</name>
    <name.id>I07</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank colleagues for their forbearance. It is greatly appreciated.</para>
<para class="italic">Senator Whish-Wilson interjecting—</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LUDLAM</name>
    <name.id>I07</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Whish-Wilson, be quiet. I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate take note of the document.</para></quote>
<para>Specifically, I wish to take note of the absence of a response by the Minister for Communications, Senator Fifield, to the request of the Senate for the government's response to our inquiry into the future of Australia's video game development industry. This is something we tabled 411 days ago.</para>
<para>This was a unanimous report. All I can do, really, is commend it to the chamber. I do not know that any of the coalition senators who sat on it are actually in here at the moment, but I was really pleasantly surprised. We had a mix of people on this inquiry into what could be an incredibly important and vital part of the Australian economy—the kind of new economy Prime Minister Turnbull used to go on about so much. We had a variety of senators on that committee and by the end of it, no matter how much information they had or how much experience they had with the industry before they started on the inquiry, everybody was of one view: that this is an industry worth supporting, either purely for the economic arguments, which I will go into in a moment, or, to my mind, more importantly, the artistic elements of entire new art forms that are coming into being before our eyes.</para>
<para>So, 411 days ago, we tabled a unanimous report. There were eight recommendations. They were fairly simple and straightforward things, stuff that you would probably expect—I will go into them in a bit of detail in a moment—and we have heard absolutely nothing. So last month I put up a motion, which the Senate supported, to require the government to produce its response. It is the normal practice in here that, when a Senate committees goes away, does a report, tables it and comes up with recommendations, as a courtesy—even if the government disagrees with the recommendations—you get a report back from the government, saying: 'Thank you for your work. Here is what we are going to do with your proposals.' Then, 411 days later, that document still does not exist. We are wondering how much longer Senator Fifield expects it is going to take to respond to the eight recommendations.</para>
<para>In his comment yesterday, Senator McGrath, his voice dripping with his usual contempt, basically said: 'We're busy. We have to consult with a bunch of ministers. We'll get back to you.' We have a letter today from Senator Fifield—and I get that he is busy; he is dealing with the unfolding catastrophe of the NBN and the defunding of the ABC and SBS and the demands of the commercial media sector. I know he has a lot on his plate, but this is a good-news story. These are creative people who are trying to make an economic and artistic contribution to our country. The scale of the industry they are trying to play into is something that I think has gone over the heads of everybody in here except those who participated in the committee.</para>
<para>It has been more than three years now since the coalition government announced that it would cancel the Australian Interactive Games Fund. It is nice that Senator Brandis is in here with us at the moment, because it was one of his more casual and destructive acts for the 2014 budget. He basically elbowed a sector in the face; he scratched the line item of the Australian Interactive Games Fund halfway through its three-year funding round.</para>
<para>We thought it might be interesting to see what has happened in the games industry since that budget line item was so casually wiped out by Senator Brandis during his short and not-at-all-missed tenure as arts minister. But, while Senator Fifield—who I think does bring a more technically and certainly artistically literate point of view to bear on this sector—has been considering the committee report, a couple of things have happened, and I would like to draw the chamber's attention to a couple of predictions the committee got wrong in that time.</para>
<para>While Senator Fifield has been juggling his portfolios, the global games industry has grown to more than $100 billion in annual revenues. That is 'billion' with a 'b'. It is bigger than the global film industry. That exceeds the expectations the committee set down in the report, which was $96 billion by 2018. It has come in at least 12 months ahead of the projections that we thought of. Even if all you are interested in and all you care about are the revenues that can be gained from the global industry, you would have thought that there was an important story here.</para>
<para>I think the problem is that we have ministers and expenditure review committees who want to know: 'How many tonnes of software does this industry export every year?' There is a measure of illiteracy there. We only wish that more government MPs had been able to participate and see firsthand what it is these incredibly talented and creative people are trying to do. So, while Senator Fifield has been off consulting his colleagues, the first round of recipients of the $10 million or thereabouts that Screen Australia was able to get out the door—before Senator Brandis kicked them in the face—produced several outstanding products, which I would say far exceeded the government's investment in terms of taxes paid, jobs created, global exports and continued reinvestment back into the industry. It was not a giveaway fund. It was not a slush fund. It was a loan. It was a development fund. At the end of the three-year funding cycle, there is still $21 million bucks in there because it has been paid back. That is a tiny investment to support the really important potential of this industry.</para>
<para>What we saw in part through the Commonwealth contribution in kickstarting this projects are games like Framed, Bean Dreams, Gems of War, Submerged, Hand of Fate and Crossy Road. Some of these things probably exist on some of the phones carried around by senators in this place, and they are some of the creative, outstanding and—if you are interested—lucrative games produced by the recipients of the first round of the council fund.</para>
<para>These are people who have been able to stay in Australia and build a career rather than going to California, Europe or Asia. Surely that is what the Prime Minister is on about when he talks about agility and innovation.</para>
<para>I do not want to hold this process up any further, but we do have some more questions for Senator Fifield to consider while he consults his colleagues. How much revenue has the Australian government lost by pulling out too soon and failing to fully recoup its investment in the projects funded in the first round? I would love to know, as part of the government's response, whether they have calculated the opportunity of capping this thing off halfway through and depriving these studios large and small of the ability to do what it was they were trying to do. So how much have we lost?</para>
<para>How much has this lack of vision cost the industry and the Australian economy? There will be a number there if they can be bothered to calculate it. How much damage has been done to the industry in terms of talented and experienced developers leaving the country? Does the government have any idea how many people have left the country because of the economic opportunities that have been squandered by this government? How many young Australians have graduated from games, technology and arts degrees to find no prospects of employment where there could be and there still could be a flourishing industry right here? How many opportunities has Australia missed out on to contribute to the next big hit which drives the industry and the economy onwards and upwards?</para>
<para>I know I am focusing mainly on the economic aspects here, and maybe some in the industry will wish that I would not emphasise that so hard, because it is not all the report covered and, as I said before, I think that, in a way, the incredible artistic developments that are occurring here are, if anything, more important than the economic indicators. But I would have thought it would be interesting to a government trying to balance a precarious budget to know that, if Prime Minister Turnbull just looked up the meaning of some of the buzzwords that he spools out at every opportunity, he would realise there are people right here who actually want to give some substance to that vision.</para>
<para>The government has been pretty well informed by the people who contributed to the inquiry, and I want to thank all of them. I want to thank colleagues on the crossbench, on the government side and on the opposition side for bringing a lot of goodwill to bear and being willing to listen to what the sector had to say. It is clear, though, that every day that the government continues to consider and consult without taking action on the recommendations that we made is actually incurring real costs, not just economic but personal, to people who want to be able to get out there and get a job.</para>
<para>We are up to day 411. I suspect there is something good happening behind the scenes. I suspect Senator Fifield is working on something. Maybe there is going to be something in the winds. I cannot imagine that we could go through all this work and have it come to nothing. But, for heaven's sake, give us a sign. There is a lot of goodwill out there in the industry, and the industry is not asking for much. These people are not asking for a great deal. We are still holding out for some good news—some sign that the government is ready to start making maybe even an apology for the damage that it did to a scheme that was set down when Mr Crean was arts minister under the previous government and to come good, to make right as Senator Fifield did with the disastrous catalyst imposition on the Australia Council funding. He fixed that, and it takes courage to fix stuff that your predecessors have buggered up, but I think this is one really easy thing that could be fixed without too much of an effort, not only with no impact on the budget but with a major net positive to the Australian economy.</para>
<para>This is an industry that is ready to get on its feet if the government is ready to listen. We look forward to getting more than just a letter in the mail from the minister saying, 'We need more time.' I thank the chamber.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>REGULATIONS AND DETERMINATIONS</title>
        <page.no>3920</page.no>
        <type>REGULATIONS AND DETERMINATIONS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Family Law (Superannuation) (Provision of Information—Military Superannuation and Benefits Scheme) Amendment Determination 2016</title>
          <page.no>3920</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Disallowance</title>
            <page.no>3920</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:48</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ROBERTS</name>
    <name.id>266524</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>As a servant to the people of Queensland and Australia, I want to highlight this issue and the injustice of the family law decision that military disability payments are to be divided in Family Law Court decisions. I move:</para>
<para>That the Family Law (Superannuation) (Provision of Information—Military Superannuation and Benefits Scheme) Amendment Determination 2016, made under the <inline font-style="italic">Family Law Act 1975, be disallowed.</inline></para>
<para>We would like to put on record our opposition within Pauline Hanson's One Nation party to this splitting of payments in cases of disability, since one recipient is not disabled. We understand that this disallowance motion will not resolve the larger problem. We support it as an expression of our opposition to the orderly disbursement of moneys rightly due to disabled veterans who have not suffered disability as a result of service to our country. We will work with the government to help ensure our disabled veterans are given the financial support and dignity that their sacrifices greatly merit. I urge senators to follow the advice of the RSL and vote for a disallowance of the determination by the Attorney-General.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:49</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I just want to provide the Senate with some information in relation to this issue, but first I indicate that the government will be opposing the disallowance motion. In doing so, that does not reflect at all on the genuineness of the concerns which Senator Roberts and his colleagues in the One Nation party hold. Senator Hanson has raised this issue with me, and I am happy to work with her and with others—I see Senator Lambie has arrived in the chamber, and I also acknowledge her interest in this issue—but the way to do this is not by supporting this disallowance motion this evening.</para>
<para>Let me explain to the Senate what the position is. As you know, superannuation can be a significant portion of the property pool in family law proceedings. The family law superannuation splitting regime is set out in the Family Law Act and the Family Law (Superannuation) Regulations. That regime allows superannuation interests to be split between parties when a relationship breaks down. It has been in operation since 2002.</para>
<para>The Family Law Act prohibits the courts from adjusting property interests, including superannuation interests, unless they are satisfied that in all the circumstances it is just and equitable to do so. Family law courts split invalidity pensions between parties, just as they split other superannuation interests where it is just and equitable to do so. Family law courts consider the form, nature and characteristics of superannuation interests in deciding what is just and equitable. The Federal Court of Australia in its decision in Campbell v Superannuation Complaints Tribunal in 2016 confirmed that military super invalidity pensions are superannuation interests for the purposes of the superannuation splitting regime.</para>
<para>I made the Family Law (Superannuation) (Provision of Information—Military Superannuation and Benefits Scheme) Determination 2016 on 15 November 2016. That determination amended the existing Family Law (Superannuation) (Provision of Information—Military Superannuation and Benefits Scheme) Determination 2004. The purpose of the 2004 information determination was to authorise the trustee to provide to parties to family law proceedings the information necessary to allow them to value their superannuation interests. A scheme-specific superannuation information determination was necessary in 2004 because military superannuation interests are valued using scheme-specific methods and factors. The methods and factors for valuing military super interests are contained in the Family Law (Superannuation) (Methods and Factors for Valuing Particular Superannuation Interests) Approval 2003, another legislative instrument. That 2003 instrument has not been amended.</para>
<para>The 2016 determination clarifies that the 2004 information determination is to be taken to have been made under both regulation 63, the source of power for accumulation interests, and regulation 64, the source of power for defined benefit interests. It was necessary to make that clarification because the Campbell decision concluded that military super invalidity pensions are accumulation interests for the purposes of the regulations. The characterisation of a military super interest as either an accumulation interest or a defined benefit interest has no impact on how the interest is valued or split. As I have noted, the valuation method is determined in accordance with the Family Law (Superannuation) (Methods and Factors for Valuing Particular Superannuation Interests) Approval 2003, and, as I said, that instrument has not been amended. It remains unchanged and the valuation methods and factors remain the same. The 2016 determination does not change whether military super interests are splitable; it merely removes the potential for uncertainty about the authority under which the trustee can provide the most useful information to facilitate valuation of the superannuation interest.</para>
<para>It is important to note that compensation for workplace injury is paid to ADF members under separate legislation—the Safety, Rehabilitation and Compensation Act 1988 and the Military Rehabilitation and Compensation Act 2004. These incapacity payments are economic loss compensation to ADF members and former members for lost capacity to earn due to a service injury or disease. The operation of that legislation, likewise, is unaffected by the 2016 determination.</para>
<para>For those reasons the government will not be supporting the disallowance motion, but, as I said, we will continue to work with colleagues to ensure that the legitimate concerns that have been raised are appropriately addressed. I thank the Senate.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:56</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Labor will not be supporting the disallowance for reasons similar to those that the Leader of the Government in the Senate has outlined. We understand the provisions of this instrument are purely for the purposes of facilitating information sharing. Specifically, the instrument requires the trustee to provide eligible persons with information about their superannuation interests upon request. It is this default information which will allow the Family Court to make a just and equitable decision on the splitting of assets. The issues raised with Labor regarding the valuation of superannuation do not go to this instrument, nor does this instrument have the ability to alter the valuation of invalidity pension interests. The characterisation of military super interests as either an accumulation interest or a defined benefit interest has no impact on how the interest is valued or split. The issues raised around the valuation of the invalidity pension, whether it is a defined benefit interest or an accumulation interest, are not represented in the 2016 determination, and, rather, this is a policy argument for the government.</para>
<para>The impact of the 2016 determination is simply to confirm the type of information that a trustee must provide for the purposes of the valuation of military super, not how the valuation is calculated or split. We are certainly willing to have a conversation about the broader policy issue that has been raised as a consequence of this instrument; however, we do not believe this is best dealt with through this instrument.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:57</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator KAKOSCHKE-MOORE</name>
    <name.id>265982</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Nick Xenophon Team will be voting against the disallowance motion, which has been taken up by Senator Roberts, with respect to the Family Law (Superannuation) (Provision of Information—Military Superannuation and Benefits Scheme) Amendment Determination 2016. I and my colleague Senator Lambie had initially lodged the disallowance motion on 15 February this year, following an urgent meeting with the Queensland Returned and Services League to provide them with time to consider the determination and its implications. The day of our meeting was the final day notice could be given to disallow the instrument.</para>
<para>The Queensland RSL and other stakeholders have expressed concern about the way the family law superannuation splitting regime is being applied with respect to military invalidity pensions; however, this determination does not alter the means of dealing with the family law superannuation splitting regime with respect to military invalidity pensions, which are considered superannuation interests and remain splitable. This was affirmed by Judge Logan in the decision of Campbell v Superannuation Complaints Tribunal 2016. In Campbell's case the court considered the definitions of 'superannuation interest' and 'defined benefit interest' in the Family Law Act and regulations respectively and ultimately held that, contrary to the approach taken by the trustee in the tribunal, the applicant's invalidity pension should not have been valued as a defined benefit interest as defined in the family law regulations. However, as noted, the court held that the invalidity pension was still a superannuation interest for the purposes of the relevant provisions of the Family Law Act and should have been valued for family law purposes as an accumulation interest.</para>
<para>The Federal Court's characterisation of military super interests as accumulation interests gave rise to potential uncertainty about the trustee's authority to provide specific information for the valuation of military super interests as prescribed under the 2004 determination.</para>
<para>The Campbell decision created some doubt about whether the 2004 determination was made under the correct regulation. The consequence was that it was not clear whether the trustee was authorised to provide the most targeted information for the purposes of valuing military invalidity pensions. To that end, the 2016 determination amends the 2004 determination to provide that the 2004 determination is made under both regulations 63 and 64 of the Family Law (Superannuation) Regulations. This ensures that the trustee can provide the prescribed specific information that is most useful for valuing military superannuation interests.</para>
<para>I reiterate that the 2016 determination does not affect whether military super interests are splittable. Consequently, I gave notice of our intention to withdraw the disallowance motion earlier today. Notwithstanding the giving of our notice of our intention to withdraw the disallowance motion, Senator Lambie and I understand the concerns from the veteran community and have written to the government to ask it to provide us with a written assurance that it will consider the underlying policy concerning whether military invalidity pensions should form part of the family law superannuation-splitting regime in circumstances where those pensions are reviewable. Thank you.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:00</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LAMBIE</name>
    <name.id>250026</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I will be voting against the disallowance motion with respect to the Family Law (Superannuation) (Provision of Information—Military Superannuation and Benefits Scheme) Amendment Determination 2016.</para>
<para>I will be voting against this because it is nothing more than a stunt, plain and simple. Here comes One Nation! It is a stunt! One Nation know that even if it were still able to be disallowed, what they are proposing will not make one single bit of difference in the life of a single veteran in this country. Not one!</para>
<para>When Senator Kakoschke-Moore, the NXT and I originally proposed this disallowance motion it was to provide the Queensland branch of the Returned Services League of Australia some time to consider the Attorney-General's determination and any implications that would be attached to that. RSL Queensland and other ex-service organisations have expressed valid concerns about how the family law superannuation-splitting regime is being applied with respect to military invalidity pensions. These concerns are valid and deserve to be explored, but this disallowance motion does absolutely nothing to explore them. That is because the determination itself does not alter the means of dealing with the family law superannuation-splitting rule as to military invalidity pensions, which under existing law are considered superannuation interests and remain splittable.</para>
<para>When I realised that the determination will not alter the splitting rule I withdrew from the disallowance motion, along with Senator Kakoschke-Moore. I have asked the government to provide a written assurance, as has Senator Kakoschke-Moore, that it will consider the underlying policy of whether military invalidity pensions should form part of the family law superannuation-splitting rule in circumstances where they are reviewable. That is what is actually needed to make a real difference here—a real difference to veterans' lives.</para>
<para>The veteran community is sick of being played for fools like this. Veterans who have served their country deserve better from One Nation than to be treated like pawns in a political stunt, which is all this is this afternoon. It is a political stunt and they are using veterans as pawns. One Nation need to stand up and own the fact that they know that what they are doing here will achieve absolutely nothing. I would expect, further on, that they would apologise for their actions to every Australian veteran out there. Anything less will be more of the same from the party that likes to pretend they care about veterans only when there is a camera trained on them or they can get attention. Cheap votes from veterans!</para>
<para>Not only does this achieve nothing, it promises false hope to those who actually need our help here. It is a disgraceful, cynical and shocking display of One Nation using the veteran community for their own political gain, and it will make absolutely no difference to a veteran. Veterans do not need any more empty promises and useless gestures. They need our help, and this does nothing to help them.</para>
<para>Some of us in this place actually give a damn about making a difference. Some of us take the work we are doing here seriously. Stop wasting our time with these useless stunts and stop using veterans as a chance to get your names in the newspaper. Shame on you! They deserve better and Australia deserves better. You ought to be ashamed of yourselves.</para>
<para>Do you know what blows me away even more? These are the same people who pulled a political stunt on the veterans, pretending they actually cared about them. They did a big thing on Facebook here not that long ago, calling veterans in and pretending that they cared about their PTSD. And yet not one of them has shown up at the veterans' suicide inquiry. Not one!</para>
<para>If this is not a political stunt and using a veteran as a pawn, I do not know what is. But I will tell you what: today, you are an absolute disgrace in my eyes and those of many veterans out there and this will come back to bite you. You deserve everything you get.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:05</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ROBERTS</name>
    <name.id>266524</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>This afternoon, we did our research on this and we saw this as a way of showing our support. After contacting the RSL, they urged us to continue this for them. Our office did that this afternoon to show our support for the RSL and 5,000 veterans who are under pressure with this. We know that the government needs to act on this, and that is what we are doing. We are facilitating and driving that. On behalf of 5,000 veterans and the RSL, who have encouraged us to continue this, that is why we speak. I urge all senators to vote in favour of this disallowance motion.</para>
<para>Question negatived.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BILLS</title>
        <page.no>3924</page.no>
        <type>BILLS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Health Insurance Amendment (National Rural Health Commissioner) Bill 2017</title>
          <page.no>3924</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" style="" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" background="" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture">
            <a type="Bill" href="r5796">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Health Insurance Amendment (National Rural Health Commissioner) Bill 2017</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>3924</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:06</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WILLIAMS</name>
    <name.id>I0V</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I would like to continue following the brief start that I had for about 30 seconds on this legislation when I first spoke. This is a really good plan put forward by the member for Lyne, David Gillespie—a national rural health commissioner to actually look at the health issues in rural and regional areas and give frank assessments and opinions to the ministers.</para>
<para>There are many things that we could do within regional areas. One that I am promoting at the moment is neurological nurses throughout not only New South Wales, but Australia, for people with Parkinson's disease—such as I have; so far, so good—but also that terrible disease of motor neurone disease and multiple sclerosis. We have just three of those such nurses in New South Wales. I believe there is one at Nowra, one at Wagga Wagga and one at Coffs Harbour. A motion passed at the New South Wales Nationals conference at Broken Hill a couple of weeks ago, and my good colleague Senator Nash was there, to see that the federal government along with the state governments provide 50-50 funding for these neurological nurses. That is one thing we need to discuss with this health commissioner when this commissioner is appointed. I would hope that this legislation would be supported right around the chamber.</para>
<para>Another thing that we are short of, especially in many remote areas, are dentists. Early in this job—eight years or so ago—we received an increase in our electoral allowance payments of some $4,800 a year. Since that very day, I have donated the $4,800 a year to a rural dental scholarship, actually managed by the National Rural Health Alliance, where a first-year dentistry student going to university receives my $4,800—$400 a month—for the 12 months. It is a big assistance to anyone, but especially a university student who has to travel and get accommodation. On a verbal commitment, they come from a rural or regional background and they will return to those areas to practise when they become a fully qualified and professional dentist. I have actually put a bit of money into that and I am very proud to say that we have now paid out some $40,000 in sponsoring my dental scholarship.</para>
<para>There are many things we need in regional Australia as far as health goes. So what will be the role of this health commissioner? How will it work? The commissioner will work across all levels of government to improve rural health policies and champion the cause of rural practice. The first task of the commissioner will be to develop a national rural generalist pathway. Working with the sector and training providers to define what is to be a rural generalist, the commissioner will develop options for increased access to training and appropriate remuneration for rural generalists, recognising their extra skills. While the commissioner's first priority is the development of the pathway, their role will be much broader and will include consultation with stakeholders to give consideration to the nursing, dental health, Indigenous health, mental health, midwifery and allied health needs in rural and remote Australia. Dentistry has been mentioned again.</para>
<para>For the benefit of the whips, I will not be speaking my full term of 20 minutes. That might put you on notice as to who your next speaker is.</para>
<para class="italic">Senator Urquhart interjecting—</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WILLIAMS</name>
    <name.id>I0V</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you for the thumbs up, Senator Urquhart. What we are being told—and I have no reason to doubt this—is that the National Rural Health Commissioner will be very frank in his or her assessment. That is the point of the job. It is for them to look at the details, assess the details, assess the problems, come up with solutions and give frank opinions and directions to our health ministers, regardless of who is in government. I would hope this is supported right around the chamber. The National Rural Health Commissioner will be there for decades to come.</para>
<para>We talked earlier in the debate about housing prices and foreign investors. There is plenty of room in regional Australia for people to move to. There are plenty of jobs. Mr Acting Deputy President Marshall, you would be familiar with the huge argument we had about the backpackers tax and what to charge them, because we need them to work in our abattoirs and to pick our fruit—the seasonal work. We have more than 700,000 Australians unemployed. Why aren't they going out to pick the fruit or to work in abattoirs? That always amazes me. Perhaps we are a bit soft when we actually pay people not to work. When I was a young fella, we did not have enough land to support my father, my brother and me, so I learnt to drive a truck and to sheer sheep. I was never unemployed as a result. Shearing sheep is not the easiest job going, but I was young and fit in those days—a bit different from now. Age does weary us.</para>
<para>This is a situation where we want people in regional Australia. We have already seen the government working actively in that direction with APVMA and many other government institutions being moved out to the regions, freeing up the housing in the cities. We have the land. We have the housing. The population actually grows jobs. The more population in a town, the more teachers, the more nurses, the more doctors, the more police are needed—the more everything is needed. Population in and of itself builds jobs. If you do not believe me then ask what Canberra had 100 years ago. It probably had some cattle—beef cattle, dairy cattle—some sheep and a few farmers. There was probably a little village somewhere, with a general store. Look at it now. This is a classic example of regional development.</para>
<para>The National Rural Health Commissioner will play a major role as the regional areas grow—and I am sure they will in time. People will be forced out of the cities because of the simple fact that they will not be able to afford to buy a house. Where I live in Inverell, a lovely town, there is ample water supply—no water restrictions. There are never water restrictions. Even in the biggest drought we do not have water restrictions, thankfully, because of the Copeton Dam water supply. You can buy a good home in Inverell for $300,000. When I say a 'good home' I mean a three-bedroom, brick veneer home on an 800-square metre block in a nice area, a quiet area, of town. That is not a lot of the money; $300,000 would not buy you a dog kennel in Sydney.</para>
<para>As we grow the regions, it will be vital that the National Rural Health Commissioner provide frank assessments of the things that we need in regional areas as far as health goes. Sure, we are lucky in this country. If you are in a spot of bother or in a serious spot of bother, we have the helicopters, the air ambulances. Those things are there for an emergency. But more than that is needed. There are the aged care facilities. There is the general hospital for people who are just recovering from a minor or, in some cases, even major surgery. Of course, there is a shortage of dentists. As I said, I will be keen to see the neurological nurses established right throughout Australia to take a bit of the load off the GPs. Also, it takes a long time to get in to see a neurologist. It can often take six months, so you have to book ahead to get in to see one. Most of them seem to be based in the cities. The nurses could do a lot of good work out in the regional areas.</para>
<para>I look forward to the support of senators from right around the chamber. I hope no-one will oppose this legislation. I look forward to the appointment of the National Rural Health Commissioner. Also, I look forward to meeting that commissioner and having a frank discussion with them and saying: 'Look, here are a few things I can bring to your attention straightaway.'</para>
<para>I do hope there is support around the chamber. It is all right to have everything in the cities—the specialists, the big hospitals and the good care we see in so many cases—and sometimes in the regional areas we are behind simply for lack of population. You are not going to book into the Inverell hospital for a heart transplant, you are going to go to Saint Vincent's. It is as simple as that: we simply do not have big enough casualties, customers, clients, patients—whatever you want to call them. I do think it is going to be very good thing and I hope it is supported all around. I look forward to meeting the commissioner as soon as possible after the commissioner is appointed.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:15</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'NEILL</name>
    <name.id>140651</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I do concur with some of the remarks of Senator Williams—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Williams</name>
    <name.id>I0V</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Not all of them?</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'NEILL</name>
    <name.id>140651</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Of course, not all of them, Senator Williams. I will take that interjection. Living in a rural community I am not surprised that you wanted to stand up and support the arrival of this commissioner, but again it is from this government in the area of health too little and too late, After breaking so many things, there is a great need for repair. This government's appointment of a National Rural Health Commissioner to oversee health care for the people of remote and rural Australia really needed to happen an awful lot sooner. It would have been a much easier job if so much money had not been ripped out of the health system and if the problems of access to health services had not been so exacerbated during this government's time in power.</para>
<para>I would not envy the commissioner's job because this coalition government, despite the rhetoric and despite the very nice visual appeal of this appointment, continues to run the health system into the ground. It is particularly hurting Australians in the bush. About one-third of our Australian population lives in regional, rural and remote areas and that comes in at around seven million people whose access to services is significantly impaired. That is at the heart of what this commissioner will be told he or she has the responsibility to clean up.</para>
<para>Sadly, on average, rural, regional and remote Australians do not enjoy the same high standards of health and wellbeing as people living in cities, nor do they experience the same access to health services and health-related infrastructure. The truth is that health-care models that work in urban settings do not necessarily translate to rural or remote settings, where services are necessarily more fragmented and often more difficult to reach. We heard a great deal of evidence in the select committee of the last parliament about the simple cost of transport in getting to vital health services.</para>
<para>One might have hoped that the NBN might have delivered a line of modern access to services away from where you live but, sadly, the NBN committee in this parliament is only hearing about the disastrous rollout of the NBN. People on Sky Muster and people on the border of Victoria describing very clearly their failure in accessing service in a reliable way. Many of them were asking for their ADSL back because the NBN is so bad. I do not mean the real NBN, but the dodgy, lemon version that we have had inflicted on us by the Abbott and Turnbull governments through their poor decision making.</para>
<para>Distances are clearly greater in the bush, and so attracting and retaining staff in the health sector is a major challenge. With the tearing apart of Medicare Locals, we heard story after story all around regional Australia of the incredible waste in human capital—how people had been recruited to the bush but were held up by this government's mismanagement week after week and month after month to the point where they had no certainty of paying their mortgages in regional or remote Australia and so they simply packed up and headed back to the cities. That is how badly this government, in both its Turnbull and Abbott iterations, has dealt with the challenges of getting great Australian health workers to the bush. They killed off the workforce in their mismanagement of the sector.</para>
<para>Some of the challenges that the rural health commissioner has before him or her include the larger proportions of social disadvantage, higher unemployment rates and reduced access to support services such as allied health, pathology, radiology and investigative disciplines. Those are a lived reality which has only become worse in recent years. Where I live on the Central Coast and in communities further away from our capital city communities have higher morbidity and mortality, and their health care costs are usually higher. That is why the Labor government, instead of putting in a commissioner for rural health, had a policy of putting in place 26 regional cancer centres.</para>
<para>I am very pleased to say that it was a federal Labor government that put in $29 million for Gosford regional cancer centre, with $10 million from the Keneally government in New South Wales, to make sure that people on the Central Coast could finally get public access to cancer treatment, to radiotherapy. That was a practical response to the needs of regional and rural Australia. It is very different from what we are seeing here—wreck it first then bring in a commissioner to clean up the mess that you have made or at least look like they are going to clean up the mess that has been made. Why is this so desperately needed?</para>
<para>If we look at children from Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander backgrounds, the reality is right now they continue to be more at risk of death, with their mortality rate 2.3 times higher than non-Indigenous children. Clearly there is a great need for a changed response to access to services and management of that whole process. I sincerely hope that the commissioner can work the miracle of resurrecting access to services for Australians in the terrible context that they will find themselves in, given this government's former health decisions.</para>
<para>The National Rural Health Alliance points out that, despite the high health needs of our remote population, there is around 20 per cent less Medicare funded GP activity in remote Australia compared to the same population in the city. It is not because people are sicker; it is because the system is so sick, so broken. It is because access to people who can provide the health care that you need is so difficult to get that you just cannot get the treatment that you need. You just cannot get to see the people that you need. You cannot afford to travel. You cannot find the person to do the job because the speech pathologist that got recruited out to your area by Medicare Local got stuffed around so much they went back to the city, and now you cannot get that service anymore. That is everywhere across the country, and this government has to take responsibility for the brokenness that it has inflicted on workforce around the country.</para>
<para>That situation is not only bad because of the real life outcomes and impacts it has on ordinary Australians but it is terrible because it is leading to a very aberrant set of behaviours about cost-shifting, with the states having to pour more money into acute hospital care for people from rural and remote areas. Sadly, people with mental health issues from remote communities who are unable to access early intervention services are more frequently hospitalised than their fellow Australians in the city. These are the facts of how terrible things have become under the watch of this government through its series of ministers that it has pushed through the portfolio. Why is it like this?</para>
<para>The government deny many of the decisions they have made. I want to talk about one decision on perinatal depression. The federal government wrote to the nation's health ministers saying that they had just pulled up stumps and were not going to fund it anymore. The original $85 million agreement expired and then there was supposed to be a continuation of it. But that terrible budget in 2014 just saw the money disappear. The letter arrived from the federal health minister, according to the Minister for Health in Queensland. He said, 'I received a letter from the federal health minister, Sussan Ley, telling me they are abandoning this initiative.' That is the kind of public action that this government have taken around health that has led to the decay of services and the increasing need for people to have acute hospital care.</para>
<para>Why would this government bother about it? They do not care because it has shifted the cost onto the states so they can play games with their numbers. Playing games with their numbers is actually costing people their health. In its worst manifestations, it is costing lives, and people in the bush know this. They know that access has become harder to achieve and they know the quality of the services and their capacity to be able to get health care when they need it has decreased under this government.</para>
<para>I want to make some remarks about mental health, particularly. According the Australian Bureau of Statistics, 3,027 Australians died by suicide in 2015, and that is a 5.4 per cent increase on the previous year. By all reports, that continues to rise. Sadly, death by suicide continues to disproportionately affect remote and rural Australia, especially Indigenous communities and young men.</para>
<para>I want to acknowledge in my remarks this evening that this week marks Men's Health Week, and I also made some remarks in the adjournment last night about infant mental health. This year's theme for men's health week—Healthy Body Healthy Mind: Keeping the Balance—explores the way men and boys can keep healthy, physically and emotionally, in a busy and challenging world.</para>
<para>The challenges facing men and boys in rural and regional communities are very significant. There is considerable difficulty, as I said, in accessing services because of isolation, but also financial difficulties means that support services that are needed cannot be accessed in real times of need but are often delayed—delayed to the point where the need increases to the acute level and, in the worst instances, where, sadly, people feel that they simply cannot go on. Sadly, also, in the context of rural and regional Australia, people have more access to suicide means that are likely to result in immediate death. The commissioner and all levels of government need to focus on a holistic approach to suicide prevention. It is only through working together that we can hope to reduce the impact of suicide in our society.</para>
<para>We have heard this government prattle on about how they really care about mental health. It is one of Mr Turnbull's signature phrases, but the reality is: he has not put it front and centre as he said he would, and there is a massive mess out there—a mess of his own making—that he has now decided this commissioner should come in and sort out.</para>
<para>The health department revealed to Senate estimates back in October last year that at that time it was yet to provide any detailed evidence and advice to the government on the Turnbull government's commitment of $20 million to 10 new headspace centres. During the course of the election, Mr Turnbull says: 'Look. I'm going to be your man for mental health. I'm definitely going to be doing something good on mental health. Okay, what'll we do? Let's just come up with—10 headspace centres. How much? $20 million. Any advice from the department? Sorry? No, don't worry about that.' That is not evidence based policymaking but prejudiced policymaking; policymaking that is interested in votes, not people; policymaking that is on the run, not consultative; and policymaking that is made by members of this government in isolation without fair and proper consultation with the states with whom they are in deep partnership with regard to health and without proper consultation with the people in Australia in an open and honest way.</para>
<para>The smoke and mirrors that this government has managed to manufacture—there is an unbelievable construction of myth around medical support. While I support the need for a commissioner to try and come and rectify some of the worst excesses of this government's decision-making in health, the job that they have created for him or her is enormous—absolutely enormous.</para>
<para>It has been almost 12 months since the federal election. We have had a change of health minister. We have only got half the promises, half of the commitments, that were promised last year. Four of the five new headspace centres that have been announced have been—wait for it—in Liberal-held seats. In one of those cases, the member for Canning, Andrew Hastie, said that it was his collection of 3,000 signatures that tipped the scales—so much for evidence based decision-making.</para>
<para>Communities are an important part of decision-making in the country, but that is not what this government said it was about. Yet we have got a member out there saying, 'It's thanks to the groundswell of community support that our efforts have been successful. Today's announcement shows that the federal government is listening and responding to the difficulties faced in the Peel region. I thank Minister Greg Hunt for being so receptive to our call for help.'</para>
<para>We have got a member out there campaigning for headspace, getting signatures from people who have experienced incredible grief and loss through the suicide of their children and their friends and their family playing some political game with this—eking out how long they can drip-feed into the Australian population these headspace centres, which are desperately, desperately needed—instead of a transparent announcement of: 'This is the needs analysis. This is the population data. This is what the health professionals are telling us, and we will get it out as quickly as we can.' No, we have got: 'Let's campaign on it. Let's drip feed it, and we won't tell anybody about our decision-making around this with any clarity.' It is wrong. It is exploitative, it is wrong and it is contemptuous.</para>
<para>According to the member for Hastie, Mr Hunt seems to operate using policy by petition. Until estimates questions are answered, this still remains a murky proposition. We are yet to get information from estimates about the criteria for these centres. The government is quick to maximise political capital, but it is very slow in responding to the urgent needs of vulnerable Australians, which it has exacerbated by bad policy-making in the area of health.</para>
<para>In the interests of the work of the Senate, I will restrict my remarks to those key areas this evening. I know that Senator Griff is going to make a contribution shortly. I simply close with the reality of this. In preparing my remarks this evening, I had a look at the explanatory memorandum. I thought, 'We've had a reprint of the explanatory memorandum', but it was not a reprint. There is one explanatory memorandum. Then there is another one entitled 'Revised explanatory memorandum'. And the final one, an additional page—it talks about the need for the commissioner to actually do something about the workforce—is entitled 'Supplementary explanatory memorandum'.</para>
<para>We do have a very big problem with workforce in rural and regional Australia. I have given some of the reasons why the practical decisions of this government have made that worse. But let us not forget that there was an organisation established under Labor, called Health Workforce Australia, and its job was to plan, to audit and to see that Australians got the support that they needed where they lived. Doctors certainly. The rural specialist program, which has come out of Queensland and is now being replicated around the country, is a great part of giving health care to Australians in the bush.</para>
<para>But this government, with three explanatory memoranda on the appointment of this commission, show that they are making it up as they go. That is because they are not governing with care. They are not governing in a way that explores and really uses the expertise of great Australians working in the health sector. They are using health as a political football and creating a mythology over the top of it to pretend that they actually care about Australians. And while the commissioner is a step in the right direction, I hope I have made clear to those listening this evening that they cannot trust this government on health. A commissioner charged with the scale of repair that is required after the coalition's wrecking of the health system is a piece of window dressing at worst. Please God, let an amazingly talented Australian come in who can do some genuine work to clean up the dog's breakfast of policy making that has been inflicted on the Australian population, particularly those most vulnerable in regional and rural Australia.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:33</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GRIFF</name>
    <name.id>76760</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to briefly speak on the Health Insurance Amendment (National Rural Health Commissioner) Bill 2017, which provides the appointment of a National Rural Health Commissioner. At the outset, I wish to commend the government for this most worthwhile initiative. With roughly one-third of Australians living outside metropolitan areas, the need for this bill speaks for itself. We know that those living in rural areas experience higher rates of chronic disease; have shorter life expectancy; face higher health risk factors such as smoking, drinking and obesity rates; have poorer access to medical and allied health services; and are, on average, older than their city counterparts.</para>
<para>The health needs of these Australians are, in many ways, unique. This bill recognises this and focuses on providing an agenda dedicated solely to addressing the needs of our regional communities. The commissioner will, as we know, be responsible for the development of a new national rural generalist pathway to increase access to training for doctors in regional, rural and remote Australia; for working with the government and the health sector to enhance policy and to promote opportunities for a career in rural health; and for developing options for increased access to training and appropriate remuneration for rural generalists.</para>
<para>I am pleased to see that the government has listened to some of the concerns raised—particularly by those members who represent rural electorates, including Rebecca Sharkey, the member for Mayo. The government's amendments are very much a good first step, but there is no doubt that we need to do much more in this space. In today's day and age, there is absolutely no justification for treating those Australians who live in regional areas as second-class citizens. There is absolutely no reason why they should not have access to the same levels of health care as people living in the metropolitan areas.</para>
<para>The member for Mayo highlighted very succinctly in the other place just how much electorates like hers have to gain from the implementation of this bill. It is not acceptable, for instance, that the Adelaide Hills does not offer its ageing population a renal dialysis service, or that around 1,500 trips have to be made to the city annually by patients so that they can receive that treatment. There are no Medicare rebate machines in the Adelaide Hills region, which means that patients are forced to foot massive medical bills that often they can ill afford. Again, this is another issue that is only in rural and regional Australia.</para>
<para>The Gumeracha Medical Practice, for example, has been forced to fight for funding that was arbitrarily axed because the practice was deemed to be located within 20 kilometres of a town with 50,000 people. This is despite the fact that the practice itself extends its services across a region with a catchment of almost 7,000 people and that it offers services far beyond what would be expected of a small country town GP clinic, including, importantly, providing training opportunities for 40 general practice registrars since 2003.</para>
<para>Another example is the Southern Fleurieu Family Practice, which is struggling to continue its services after having its after-hours services funding withdrawn. That practice is the only medical facility on the west coast of the Fleurieu Peninsula, which covers an area of approximately 450 square kilometres. It services a population of 4,700 people that swells in the summertime to over 16,000 people. If its services fold, patients will be left with no choice but to travel over 30 kilometres to the Victor Harbor hospital, or north more than 50 kilometres to the Noarlunga Hospital. It is not acceptable that all of the South Australian radiation facilities for patients with cancer are within 15 kilometres of the Adelaide CBD and that rural patients always have to travel to Adelaide for treatment.</para>
<para>We anticipate that the National Rural Health Commissioner will put a spotlight on all of these issues, and, importantly, help rural people get the health care that they deserve. These issues are certainly not unique to South Australia's regional areas. According to an ABC report the hundreds of kilometres of roads leading to larger places like Orange, Dubbo and Canberra are well-worn for many patients, who often have to wait weeks for even the most basic health services in their local district. There are very real fears that if basic medical facilities are not built and supported that some of these communities will slowly be wiped out.</para>
<para>Often, what we do not think about is that it is not as simple as hopping in the car and driving to the nearest metropolitan area for treatment. In many instances, partners are required to take time off work, alternative arrangements have to be made for the kids and sometimes it will mean an overnight stay and so accommodation will also be required. Seeking basic health care can significantly impact on a patient's ability to maintain a job, as a person from a rural area may need two to three days off work for something that a person from a metropolitan area can do in a morning or an afternoon. If these trips are required on a regular basis they can also have profound effects on the family unit, never mind the family budget.</para>
<para>The establishment of a rural commissioner is, as I said, a good first step. But we need to do all we can to ensure that the sorts of situations I just outlined are addressed—that a person living in regional Australia can visit the doctor during business hours or after hours without worrying about whether the consultation will eat into their weekly income and that they can visit a doctor without needing to travel 20, 30 or 50 kilometres for that consultation.</para>
<para>A good next step would also be allowing the use of Telehealth for GP-delivered mental health services. Suicide and mental health issues in particular are made even more significant by isolation and distance.</para>
<para>The fact that there will be a greater emphasis on training for doctors in regional areas and career opportunities in rural health is something that has been wanting for a very long time. As it is, so few doctors are electing to go into GP training. In the past decade, only one in 11 doctors in training have decided to become GPs—and that is a staggering number. The rest choose to go into specialist training, and this has been impacting on the availability of GPs for regional and rural areas significantly. In my home state of South Australia, the shortage of generalist doctors has, in recent times, seen doctors at breaking point, with many of them complaining that they have had to do 24-hour emergency department shifts to cope with staff shortages. National health workforce figures show that, in 2012, there was double the number of doctors for city residents compared to regional and remote areas—437 medical practitioners per 100,000 people in the major cities, compared with 262 for inner regional areas, 247 for outer regional areas and 274 for remote areas. Many regional and rural communities are now at crisis point and it is imperative that decisive action be taken to address these shortages. The development of a pathway to increase access to training and promote career opportunities in rural health is key to addressing this issue.</para>
<para>We will be watching closely to ensure that this bill results in real outcomes for Australian families in regional and rural areas, and we will be watching to ensure that this is the first instalment in a series of measures aimed at strengthening our regional communities even further. With those few words, I support the second reading of this bill.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:41</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator NASH</name>
    <name.id>e5g</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>It is a pleasure to deliver these summing-up remarks in relation to the Health Insurance Amendment (National Rural Health Commissioner) Bill 2017—indeed, particularly as I was the minister at the time who announced this. I place on record my congratulations to the member for Lyne, Dr Gillespie—the good Dr Dave—for the work he has done in making this a reality. He has done a tremendous job.</para>
<para>This bill will amend the Health Insurance Act 1973 for the purpose of establishing Australia's first National Rural Health Commissioner. This government recognises the many challenges of delivery, access and provision of health services in rural, regional and remote Australia. The most pressing concern is a lack of access to training for doctors and health professionals who practice outside of our major cities. Establishing the National Rural Health Commissioner will ensure this issue is front and centre of the government's rural health agenda. The National Rural Health Commissioner will be an independent statutory office holder who will champion the cause of rural health, provide expert advice to government and report directly to the responsible minister for rural health. The first priority of the National Rural Health Commissioner will be to develop a national rural generalist pathway which will improve access to training for doctors in rural, regional and remote Australia and consider options for appropriate remuneration for rural generalists.</para>
<para>In recognition of the importance of the commissioner's role, the government has introduced its own amendments that will clarify the scope of the commissioner's role and review the role 12 months before cessation and, finally, an amendment that will direct the commissioner to consider the advice of the Rural Health Stakeholder Roundtable and the Distribution Working Group. The two other amendments of this bill are the repeal of sections 3GC and 19AD of the Health Insurance Act 1973. Repealing section 3GC of the act will remove the duplication of functions between the Medical Training Review Panel and the National Medical Training Advisory Network. It will also simplify legislation in the Health portfolio. Under section 19AD, a review was required every five years into the operation of the Medicare provider legislation in the Health Insurance Act 1973. These previous reviews have been costly, time consuming and resource intensive and have not provided any operational improvements to the application of the legislation.</para>
<para>I would like to take this opportunity to thank all senators for their contributions to this bill. Appointing the National Rural Health Commissioner is an important step forward in the government's aim to improve the access and provision of health services for all Australians who live outside of our major cities. On behalf of the government, I would like to thank the many rural health stakeholders and organisations around the nation, many of whom I have worked with, who have welcomed our decision to establish a National Rural Health Commissioner. We are looking forward to working closely with the commissioner, rural health stakeholders and organisations over the coming years to achieve our shared aim of delivering a quality standard of health care for our rural, regional and remote communities. I commend the bill to the Senate.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>J7Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The first question is that the second reading amendment moved by Senator Di Natale be agreed to.</para>
<para>Question agreed to</para>
<para>Original question, as amended, agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a second time.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>In Committee</title>
            <page.no>3934</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:46</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator NASH</name>
    <name.id>e5g</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I move government amendments (1) to (6) on sheet EH205:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Schedule 1, item 1, page 3 (lines 15 and 16), omit “If requested by the Minister, the Commissioner may also provide advice to the Minister on matters relating to rural health reform.”, substitute “The Commissioner may also provide advice to the Minister on the development and distribution of the health workforce and on rural health reform.”.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Schedule 1, item 1, page 3 (line 23), at the end of section 79AA, add “The Minister must consider a year before this whether the office should be extended.”.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Schedule 1, item 1, page 3 (line 25), before “There”, insert “(1)”.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Schedule 1, item 1, page 4 (after line 2), at the end of section 79AB, add:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) The Minister must consider no later than 1 July 2019 whether the office of the Commissioner should be extended beyond 1 July 2020.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Schedule 1, item 1, page 4 (lines 9 and 10), omit paragraph 79AC(1)(c), substitute:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) providing advice to the Minister on the development and distribution of the rural health workforce and on matters relating to rural health reform.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Schedule 1, item 1, page 4 (after line 19), at the end of subsection 79AC(2), add:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">; (d) consider advice of the Rural Health Stakeholder Roundtable and the rural health workforce distribution working group.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Explanatory Memorandum</title>
            <page.no>3935</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:46</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator NASH</name>
    <name.id>e5g</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I table a supplementary explanatory memorandum relating to the government amendments to be moved to this bill.</para>
<para>Bill, as amended, agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill reported with amendments; report adopted.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Third Reading</title>
            <page.no>3935</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:47</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator NASH</name>
    <name.id>e5g</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill be now read a third time.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a third time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Therapeutic Goods Amendment (2016 Measures No. 1) Bill 2016</title>
          <page.no>3935</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" style="" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" background="" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture">
            <a type="Bill" href="r5786">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Therapeutic Goods Amendment (2016 Measures No. 1) Bill 2016</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>3935</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:51</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator POLLEY</name>
    <name.id>e5x</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>This bill amends the Therapeutic Goods Act 1989, mainly to support recommendations of the expert panel review of medicines and medical devices. The review reported in two stages in 2015 and contained 58 recommendations, and I understand the government supports all but two. This bill supports eight key recommendations.</para>
<para>Specifically, the bill will: ensure a greater consistency in the regulation of different classes of therapeutic goods; streamline the approval process for new medicines, medical devices and conformity assessment certificates in Australia, providing patients with faster access to these goods and medicines; enable regulations to be made so Australian notified bodies will be able to appraise the suitability of the manufacturing process for medical devices manufactured here in Australia; enable Australian notified bodies to consider whether such medical devices meet relevant minimum standards for safety and performance; make minor amendments to the act to reduce health risks or health regulations; allow certain unapproved therapeutic goods that are currently accessed by applying to the Secretary of the Department of Health to be made more easily obtainable by practitioners; adopt a risk-based approach to the management of variation to medicines by allowing certain kinds of variations that do not impact the quality, safety or efficiency of medicines to be made by the notification to the Therapeutic Goods Administration rather than requiring the approval of the secretary; allow practitioners the opportunity to notify the secretary within 28 days of having supplied therapeutic goods to their patients, rather than requiring pre-approval; allow the TGA to develop a more comprehensive post-market monitoring system for medicines and medical devices; provide review and appeal rights for persons who apply to add new ingredients to use in listed complementary medicines; reduce regulatory burden; reduce health risks to the public or make other more minor changes; enable the cancellation of registered or listed therapeutic goods from the register if the sponsor of the goods has supplied false or misleading information in relation to their application; strengthen post-marketing powers, recalls and public notifications and the obtainment of information about therapeutic goods; allow the secretary to reinstate therapeutic goods to the register that were cancelled, if the goods were cancelled for non-payment of annual charges and, if, principally, the sponsor has paid the charge; develop criteria for developing and identifying certain therapeutic goods that are not registered that may be able to be supplied to patients, other than those who are gravely ill, by notification to their TGA rather than, as is the case currently, requiring the prior approval of the secretary; allow the secretary to require manufacturing licence holders to provide informational documentation upon request; allow conditions on the inclusion of kinds of medical devices in the register to be either prescribed by a regulation or set out in a legislative instrument made by the minister to bring the situation in relation to conditions for medical devices in line with registered or listed; and, ensure the capacity to refuse to list in the Australian Register of Therapeutic Goods, the ARTG, medical products that have potential to undermine Australia's public health efforts. We require listed medical products to only include ingredients that have been approved for use in listed products. These are complex regulatory reforms. However, put simply, where the regulation of medicines and medical devices can be streamlined, they should be—provided that safety and quality is maintained. Increased use of assessment by comparable overseas regulators and work-sharing arrangements with those regulators have the potential to reduce duplication of effort. The aim is to provide faster access to new medicines and medical devices, which are often crucial for people whose health and wellbeing worsens each day they wait for access. That is why Labor will be supporting the bill.</para>
<para>Although we support the bill, Labor nevertheless has important concerns that we wish to highlight. It is absolutely critical that the government gets this right. Most of the substantive detail will be dealt with in regulations. High-profile failures of medical devices have been a feature in recent years and, therefore, the outsourcing of conformity assessments to Australian notified bodies rather than being undertaken by the TGA is a source of concern. We do not know if these bodies will be commercial for-profit businesses, not-for-profit organisations or a combination of both. In the case of a business which exists to make a profit for its shareholders, caution is needed if it is to be given a role which could induce a conflict of interest. Labor is aware that the government has proposed strengthening post-market monitoring and surveillance to mitigate this concern. But we do not know the detail and it is, therefore, not possible to determine if those enhanced measures will be adequate. We also do not know how the Australian notified bodies will be chosen, nor do we know how they will be monitored. These risks are very real.</para>
<para>We only need to look at the past month to see major and potentially life-threatening issues with medicines and medical devices. Four batches of lifesaving anti-allergy EpiPens have recently been recalled because it was discovered they may fail to activate. Approximately 80,000 EpiPens—300 microgram adrenaline auto-injectors, which are used to counter allergic reactions to some foods, medications, and insect stings and bites—were recalled because they may have contained a defective part. That could result in patients not receiving their required dose of adrenaline, which could exacerbate symptoms for users. That could be the difference between life and death.</para>
<para>Earlier in March, the TGA ordered the recall of more than one-quarter of the 40 home pregnancy kits on the market because almost 20 per cent of those tested failed to work properly. There is the case reported last year of a Western Australian man who lost his liver after taking freely available weight-loss protein powders and supplements. That man needed an emergency liver transplant after taking the powder that contained green tea extract and a supplement containing garcinia cambogia. The latter is a tropical fruit that can in certain circumstances cause liver failure, even in moderate doses.</para>
<para>After one of the most extreme and disturbing examples of health issues after the use of a medical device, a Senate inquiry has commenced into the approval of pelvic mesh devices. These devices were developed in Australia during the 1980s and 1990s to assist women dealing with incontinence after childbirth and have led to some shocking outcomes. Their use has led to one of the largest medical civil court cases in Australia's history. We know that many women who had mesh inserted have been left with appalling injuries—needing to have vital organs removed—and a bleak medical future. Further back in 2009 there was an issue with metal-on-metal hip replacements which were discontinued in Australia ahead of a world-wide recall some eight months later. I have just cited a handful of cases—one of them affecting women—right across the country that we all hope and expect to be closely looked at by the TGA. These issues when they arise will inevitably cast regulatory agencies across the globe in a poor light, rightly or wrongly. In some of these cases the TGA has itself faced criticism from some quarters. Nevertheless, the TGA has a reputation for identifying safety issues ahead of other regulators.</para>
<para>It is never going to be possible to ensure that nothing ever goes wrong with medicines and medical devices. However, on account of the extreme consequences on patients when things do go wrong, we need to ensure that the risk is properly managed and kept to an absolute minimum. Striking the right balance between ensuring that patients do not face unnecessary long waiting times for medicines and medical devices that are life-changing or perhaps even lifesaving and ensuring that they are safe is extremely difficult. If nothing else, examples like these show just how difficult that task can be.</para>
<para>The regulatory system needs to have the trust of the health professionals, consumer organisations and the most important people: the patients. That trust can only be maintained and strengthened if reforms are implemented in a thorough and careful manner. We will consider the examples of adverse effects on patients that have occurred under existing the regulatory regime that indicate that any reforms need to be closely scrutinised. For that reason Labor did seek to have this legislation referred to the Senate Community Affairs Legislation Committee. The committee handed down its report earlier in recent weeks. The committee recommended that the bill be passed, and, as I outlined earlier, Labor will support the bill. We support it on the principle that the expert panel reviews the recommendation. However, as the committee heard, so much of the detail of the implementation has been left to regulations. The most significant issues seem to occur with medical devices; consequently, most of our concerns centred on schedule 2 of the bill, which deals with the conformity assessment for medical devices. We therefore will be paying particularly close attention to regulations made under schedule 2.</para>
<para>We know that different regulatory agencies around the world have different standards. The European system is considered to have less stringent standards than those applying under the US system and, consequently, high-risk devices are more often approved in the EU before they are approved in the US. The European system has come under some criticism for patients being harmed by devices which were not adequately tested. We need to be very careful to learn from the experiences of overseas regulators rather than repeat the same mistakes.</para>
<para>In ensuring these reforms expedite access to therapeutic goods without compromising safety, we also need to make sure that the TGA has adequate resources and capacity to do its job. Special care needs to be taken that shifting the workload away from the TGA does not result in a loss of expertise or reduce its ability to respond when major public health issues arise. Health and medicine are one area we should approach with caution.</para>
<para>There will always be a need to produce new therapeutic goods and not to unduly delay their release, but first and foremost we need to make sure they are safe. Labor reserves its right to scrutinise the regulations closely, as I have said, and to disallow any regulations that do not strike an appropriate balance between fast access and safety.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:03</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GRIFF</name>
    <name.id>76760</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to very briefly speak on the Therapeutic Goods Amendment (2016 Measures No. 1) Bill 2016. The aim of this bill is to streamline regulatory approvals of medicines and medical devices without compromising the safety and quality of the therapeutic goods available in Australia. It supports the 2015 recommendations made by the expert panel review of medicines and medical devices regulation to reduce the regulatory burden on industry and on medical practitioners and to help patients to access new medicines and medical devices faster.</para>
<para>Some of the key changes include fast-tracking medicines, medical devices and therapeutic goods to priority patients by removing the requirement for TGA approval in cases where the goods have a history of safe use overseas. If passed, the bill will also allow the Secretary of the Department of Health to delegate power to private companies to undertake conformity assessments of medical devices to ascertain whether evidence shows a device is safe, acceptable and performs as intended. These assessments will then be used to decide whether the item should be included in the Australian Register of Therapeutic Goods. In essence, these are sensible moves, as long as there is absolutely no compromise to patient safety as a result. The Department of Health did provide assurances to us during the inquiry stage that there will be no compromise to standards by fast-tracking approvals. Priority processing would entail the same level of scrutiny, but the order of processing would give preference to urgent requests.</para>
<para>We support efficiencies, which is why we are broadly supportive of this bill. Having said that, we have questions and concerns about how these reforms will be put into practice. The fact of a regulatory role being outsourced to private entities gives us pause for thought. Whenever regulatory power is vested in private hands, we very much need to take a close look at it to ensure that it does not give rise to potential conflicts of interest or market-distorting powers. We appreciate that there is a benefit in providing timely decisions to industry and patients, but we have concerns about the secretary being able to delegate powers to external decision-makers. It raises a range of questions, such as: what happens in the rare circumstance when the wrong decision is made and a faulty or unsafe item gets through the net? How will indemnity be provided for this, for instance? What degree of risk and responsibility will be delegated to third-party conformity assessors? How will any potential conflicts of interest—or worse, collusion—be monitored and rooted out? What process will be used to assess the suitability of delegated bodies and to ensure that there is no potential conflict, such as direct or indirect links to a manufacturer, over the conformity assessments they will conduct? Again, we need to ensure that streamlined approvals and faster access to therapeutic goods do not come at the expense of patient safety.</para>
<para>In saying that, we recognise that the majority of submissions made to the Senate community affairs legislation committee inquiry actually supported the proposed reforms and wanted to see the bill passed. This support came from a broad spectrum and included patient advocacy groups such as Rare Cancers Australia, the Consumers Health Forum, medical device bodies, manufacturers and practitioner groups. While we still have to see the entirety of what is being proposed, it would be churlish to stand apart and reject this bill, given that the regulations would be disallowable and parliament could intervene if any of our concerns come to pass. Any unintended compromise to our robust regulatory system through these amended measures would amount to a false economy, with potentially significant consequences. We will need to remain vigilant to ensure that these reforms operate as intended.</para>
<para>To end, I would like to note that senators have been asked to consider an amendment to section 52 of the Therapeutic Goods Act to effectively have electronic nicotine delivery systems, or ENDS, treated in the same way as tobacco in the Poisons Standard. NXT acknowledges that there is an inconsistency with how ENDS are treated compared to cigarettes and other nicotine products, but this is a much more complex issue than it appears at first glance and deserves to be considered in more depth than this amendment allows.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:08</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SCULLION</name>
    <name.id>00AOM</name.id>
    <electorate>Northern Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I would like to thank senators for their contribution to the debate on the Therapeutic Goods Amendment (2016 Measures No. 1) Bill 2016.</para>
<para>The measures contained in this bill will support the implementation of eight key recommendations of the Expert Review of Medicines and Medical Devices Regulation, which aim, in particular, to enable faster access to important new medicines and medical devices for Australian patients, as well as to streamline administration and reduce regulatory burden in several areas. Some of the streamlined processes, for example, replacing the need for pre-approval with notification for some variations to products that do not affect product safety, will lower cost to industry and potentially customers through decreased TGA fees. The bill will also enable regulations to be made to allow Australian companies to undertake conformity assessments of medical devices, make it easier for doctors to prescribe unapproved products with a safe history of use to patients, give sponsors of complementary medicines review and appeal rights when decisions are made about proposed new ingredients for listing complementary medicines, and will enable regulations to support accelerated access to certain vital and lifesaving prescription medicines, which may be available to Australian patients up to three months faster than under the current framework.</para>
<para>The reforms in the review cover far-reaching aspects of the regulatory framework for therapeutic goods, including prescription medicines, complimentary medicines, medical devices, advertising and enhanced post-market monitoring in order to realise the benefits to industry and consumers as soon as practicable. The government is committed to a staged approach to implementation over 18 to 24 months, with a second bill covering further reforms expected to be introduced in the 2017 winter sittings. I commend the bill to the House.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a second time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>In Committee</title>
            <page.no>3940</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo></subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Third Reading</title>
            <page.no>3940</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:11</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SCULLION</name>
    <name.id>00AOM</name.id>
    <electorate>Northern Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill be now read a third time.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a third time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Enhancing Online Safety for Children Amendment Bill 2017</title>
          <page.no>3940</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" style="" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" background="" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture">
            <a type="Bill" href="r5794">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Enhancing Online Safety for Children Amendment Bill 2017</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>3940</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:12</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'NEILL</name>
    <name.id>140651</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak in support of the Enhancing Online Safety for Children Amendment Bill 2017. The bill amends the Enhancing Online Safety for Children Act 2015 to broaden the functions and the title of the statutory office, the Office of the Children's eSafety Commissioner. Labor understands that online safety is important for all Australians—adults as well as children—and broadly supports the bill. Labor supported the government in the establishment in the new Office of the Children's eSafety Commissioner in 2015 based on the importance Labor places on children's safety online and in recognition of the prevalence of bullying and social media in the lives of Australian children. Labor is committed to doing all it can to support online safety for children and adults.</para>
<para>I am sure many of us representing our local communities are aware of the importance of ensuring Australians have clear and consistent advice when it comes to e-safety. It is therefore of concern that there is confusion in the community about where to go for information and assistance on e-safety. Of course, the government itself is responsible for this confusion, and government members have admitted as much themselves. To quote the second reading speech by the member for Bradfield:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The bill amendments address feedback received by the government that adult members of the public are not aware that they can go to the Children's eSafety Commissioner for assistance with concerns around illegal or offensive online content, the sharing of intimate images without consent—commonly referred to as 'revenge porn'—or for general advice about how to manage technology risks and online safety.</para></quote>
<para>In response to a question on notice during Senate estimates recently, the office stated:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The OCeSC has noted anecdotal feedback that the current name may deter some segments of the public coming to the Office for assistance on a broad range of online safety issues currently within the office's remit.</para></quote>
<para>Let us be clear: it was an idea of this government to transfer responsibility for online safety away from the Australian Communications and Media Authority to the newly created Office of the Children's eSafety Commissioner. At the time the government took the decision to create the office, the ACMA had been responsible for a range of initiatives in the online safety space for years. Under the Cybersmart brand, the ACMA offered a suite of tailored cybersafety initiatives, digital media literacy initiatives and education programs to meet the needs of Australian citizens, not just children. Despite this success and despite there being no confusion over the remit of the ACMA with respect to adults or children, the view of the government was that the ACMA was not high profile enough. It was confirmed by the Minister for Communications under scrutiny at Senate estimates recently. Earlier this year, Senator Urquhart put to the communications minister that there had not been any confusion about the ACMA's remit with respect to adults or children, and the minister agreed. Senator Fifield said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">You are right. Some of the responsibilities that the commissioner has now were previously held by ACMA. No disrespect to ACMA, but I do not think the acronym 'ACMA' is necessarily top of mind for the community.</para></quote>
<para>… … …</para>
<quote><para class="block">… it was not a high-profile office in the way that we wanted the Children's eSafety Commissioner to be and that we now want the eSafety Commissioner to be.</para></quote>
<para>Now the government is changing the name of the commissioner, and taxpayer money will foot the bill for any necessary rebranding.</para>
<para>The government has touted this bill as expanding the role of the eSafety Commissioner to address online safety issues affecting adults, including to combat non-consensual sharing of intimate images, commonly referred to as revenge porn. But the bill does not actually extend the existing cyberbullying scheme to adults or confer any new powers to the commissioner to deal with revenge porn. Rather, it empowers the office to provide information-based initiatives for adults. As the <inline font-style="italic">Bills Digest</inline> notes:</para>
<quote><para class="block">While the Commissioner will not have the ability to receive complaints from adults about cyber-bullying material, the Government seeks to improve and promote online safety for all Australians through education initiatives.</para></quote>
<para>And, it notes further:</para>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill does not introduce offences for non-consensual sharing of images but is a recognition of the Government’s commitment to assist all Australians on online safety, through education and research.</para></quote>
<para>So, while the bill contains amendments to broaden the general functions of the eSafety Commissioner, it does not confer any additional formal powers on the commissioner. Meanwhile, serious questions about civil and criminal offences for dealing with non-consensual sharing of intimate images remain entirely unaddressed in this bill.</para>
<para>Labor welcomes the expansion of eSafety Commissioner's role to adults as well as children. It is sensible that the eSafety Commissioner's website contains resources on so-called revenge porn and that the new complaints mechanism be handled by the commissioner's office. Accordingly, the change in the title for the position is not really controversial. However, rebadging the office and creating a complaints mechanism is not enough.</para>
<para>Labor is concerned that the bill does nothing to criminalise the non-consensual sharing of private sexual material. Labor first introduced a bill to criminalise this behaviour in October 2015, then reintroduced this bill in the current parliament in October 2016. In June 2017, in the House of Representatives, Labor moved a second reading amendment calling on the government to criminalise revenge porn. Unfortunately, Labor's motion was negatived.</para>
<para>You do not need to be paying much attention to what is going on in the online space to appreciate that women, particularly those with a significant public profile, are currently the targets of enormous abuse and threats and intimidation online. What happens if you are a woman goes into a police station to complain about online threats, abuse and intimidation can actually be a bit of a lottery. There is a lot of research that shows that the experience of women in these situations varies enormously, depending on the station they make the complaint at or depending on the officer who was on watch.</para>
<para>In this respect, changing to an eSafety commissioner with a general remit is valuable because, clearly, we have an important culture-change task in front of us. We really need to get the message through to law enforcement and to policymakers that this kind of online behaviour can have significant impacts—impacts that can be just as significant as if these threats, abuse—</para>
<para>Debate interrupted.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>ADJOURNMENT</title>
        <page.no>3942</page.no>
        <type>ADJOURNMENT</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Tasmania</title>
          <page.no>3943</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:20</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DASTYARI</name>
    <name.id>225099</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I am going to be fairly brief tonight, but I do want to take this opportunity—and I know that there will be a more formal opportunity next week—to congratulate you, Mr Acting Deputy President Back, on the incredible service you have had in this chamber and in this Senate. We were all shocked and saddened to see your decision to retire from politics, which I know you made for your reasons. I do not understand why anyone would ever want to leave this place! The idea that you would want to retire strikes me as very odd and strange behaviour. But apparently there is a world outside this place—hopefully, I will never have to experience it!</para>
<para>Tonight I briefly want to touch on something that is very hard for a Sydneysider like me to do, and that is to talk about another city. I want to talk about the City of Launceston, that I was privileged to be able to visit with Ross Hart, the local MP, and with Senator Helen Polley, who is the shadow assistant minister for ageing and the shadow assistant minister to the leader for Tasmania, a few Fridays ago.</para>
<para>The City of Launceston—it is very hard for us—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>J7Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! Senator Dastyari, if I can assist you with your future in Tasmania, it is pronounced 'lonceston'.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DASTYARI</name>
    <name.id>225099</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>That was the joke—there is an ongoing joke.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>J7Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Right, thank you!</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Smith</name>
    <name.id>241710</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Let's see if you get it right next time!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DASTYARI</name>
    <name.id>225099</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Polley and I have an ongoing joke about this. We made a social media video about it. It is on a thing called the internet—it is very new; it will catch up with you in Western Australia soon, Senator Smith. It will be about three hours late but it will catch up with you eventually!</para>
<para>It is very hard for those of us from Sydney to be able to praise another city, because when you live in perfection being somewhere else and seeing somewhere else is always a case of, 'What's wrong about this place?' The fact is that there you have city where the housing is affordable, the public transport is accessible, you do not have to spend three hours in a car to go seven kilometres, the air is clean and it is quite a beautiful place. I would have to say that—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Smith</name>
    <name.id>241710</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Will you talk about the unfair GST distribution?</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DASTYARI</name>
    <name.id>225099</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Smith makes the observation that it is all those things because of WA's money. I will leave that to him and to others.</para>
<para>I believe that places like Sydney have more to learn from these cities than these cities have to learn from Sydney. In one day we were able to have a look at some of the infrastructure projects that still need to be funded in that city, we were able to sit down and talk about the health of the Tamar River and we were able to spend some time with the editor of the local paper, talking about how it is that they could have a regional paper in a city like that surviving so well when large mastheads in places like Sydney are actually struggling to survive. How is it that these smaller papers are so profitable when something as large as <inline font-style="italic">The Sydney Morning Herald</inline>, with the base that it should have, is not actually commercially viable in its current printed form?</para>
<para>We were able to spend some time at the Saint John Craft Beer Bar, a local brewery. Again, if you look at the liquor industry in a place like Tasmania it is new and it is growing. It is fantastic. There is the big scotch industry, the gin industry and a craft beer industry, which are all growing. Frankly, I could spend all day there and be a very happy man!</para>
<para>After that we visited some students from Launceston College and spoke to them about their future and the decisions they are making to go to university. Finally, we looked at some of the infrastructure spending and opportunities that are there. And we spent time at Definium Technologies so I particularly want to thank Mike Cruse, who took us on a tour.</para>
<para>Ross Hart, the local member of parliament for that area, and Senator Polley were very keen to broaden some of my experiences. They had the view, and said in jest on several occasions, 'Sam, the whole world is not Sydney!' I think that was a lie! But if you want to understand opportunities and what can happen perhaps spending a bit more time outside Sydney and in regional Tasmania—not on a Bill Shorten bus!—is perhaps the more appropriate way to try to see things. I want to thank them for that opportunity. I was able to walk away from that experience with a much better understanding of not just regional Tasmania, but also how is it that a city like Sydney can actually benefit from learning from a city like theirs.</para>
<para>I do want to touch on one matter that I want to clarify. In the morning I did a radio interview with Brian Carlton from <inline font-style="italic">Tasmania Talks</inline>. It was a long, lengthy interview that covered a range of topics. During that interview, I spoke specifically around matters to do with fundraising and other matters, and I made some references to Senator Abetz. Senator Abetz contacted me afterwards and felt that, in the review of it that he was given, I had been unkind and made untoward remarks about him. Again, I think in the full context of the interview that certainly was not the intention, but Senator Abetz is right: having a look at a snippet of that would certainly leave you with that opinion. I have privately apologised to Senator Abetz for that. I want to take the opportunity, formally, in the chamber, to express those apologies. Look, Senator Abetz and I have had many arguments about policy in this place. He is a very distinguished senator. He was Leader of the Government in the Senate—an incredibly important position—and even though, from a policy perspective, he and I have always seen things very, very differently, he is a person of incredible personal integrity and I would never want to wrongfully leave an impression of anything other than that. I do not know what the formal language is, but I have apologised to Senator Abetz. You can never really withdraw comments you have made in the public arena, but you can apologise for them. So, Senator Abetz, I want to formally acknowledge the high regard that I hold you in.</para>
<para>That being said, again, it is a great city. It was a great experience. I learnt more about Sydney from being there than perhaps they learnt from me. Maybe that is what makes us Sydneysiders so proud, that we can even go to another city and still take more than we give. Thank you.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Timor Sea Treaty</title>
          <page.no>3944</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:27</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RHIANNON</name>
    <name.id>CPR</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Today I had the opportunity to meet with a number of members from the Timor Sea justice alliance. Many of them came to Canberra from across the country to take up the very important issue of justice for the people of East Timor over the Timor oil issue. The Timor Sea justice alliance explains that they believe Australia is being unfair to Timor-Leste about sharing oil and gas in the Timor Sea. That is certainly an issue that I agree with them strongly on.</para>
<para>They believe the fair solution is to agree to setting the border, which has never been finalised. The current situation is not a border, but a resource-sharing agreement. I would urge all members to actually look at a map of Australia. What is quite unbelievable, particularly in this day and age when we constantly hear about security matters, is that our border is not complete. Our sea border actually has a gap in it just below Timor-Leste. It clearly is indicative of what needs to be sorted out, because the current situation is not a border but a resource-sharing agreement.</para>
<para>After many years of unsuccessfully requesting Australia to negotiate, in 2016 Timor-Leste launched proceedings in the United Nations for compulsory conciliation over the maritime boundary under the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea. I very much appreciated this briefing that I gained from the alliance today. Australia challenged the right of the UN to establish the commission, but the International Court of Justice ruled against Australia on all six jurisdiction grounds it raised. Consequently, Australia and Timor-Leste are negotiating in the Conciliation Commission for permanent maritime boundaries. It was explained to me how this is a positive move, but it needs to be accompanied by a commitment to finalise the border quickly based on the median line between the two countries. Current international practice is that the permanent border should be established according to median line principles, and that is defined as halfway between the coastlines.</para>
<para>The report of the commissioners under the conciliation process is due in September 2017—I understand it is quite early; I think about 9 September—however, there is every indication that, given the history of Australia's reluctance to be honest and to treat the Timorese fairly over matters regarding Timor-Leste, the negotiation through the UN compulsory conciliation process may be protracted and difficult. I think it is worth reminding ourselves why people who work on this issue and many of the people in Timor-Leste are cautious in being confident that there will be a solution here. Australia does not have a good track record here—from World War II, the Indonesian invasion and occupation, to the Balibo Five. So often the authorities have dragged the chain when it comes to doing the right thing by the people of Timor-Leste.</para>
<para>A press release put out in April from the Conciliation Commission refers to 'difficult issues' and says the process will be 'a marathon'. The June press release spoke of 'eventual' resolution. The Timor Sea justice alliance do not believe that this is good enough, and again I would share their assessment there. There have been olive branches offered by the Timorese government. There have been two requests for formal discussions in the life of the current Australian government, the dropping of the espionage case against Australia, and the termination of CMATS to clear the way for fair resolution. Clearly the Timor-Leste government is doing everything to resolve this issue in a very diplomatic and productive way. Now it is really up to Australia to pick up their side. Unfortunately, there have been no equivalent gestures of goodwill from Australia.</para>
<para>It is true that, if the parties agree to negotiate responsibly and fairly, the commission could be disbanded immediately and the two nations could engage in the formal discussions previously requested by Timor-Leste. The alliance explained that they suspect that the party that is holding up fair resolution of this matter according to international law is Australia. Sadly, this is a theme when you look at the history of Timor-Leste and the recent Timor Sea oil issues. Australia has not been a good neighbour and it has certainly not been grown up in how it has handled this. At times you would think we were still acting as a colonial country in the Pacific and east Timor Sea.</para>
<para>The alliance said that they find it incomprehensible that the Prime Minister and the foreign minister of Australia frequently call on China to act according to international law regarding the South China Sea, yet do not indicate any appreciation that international law also applies to Australia's actions in the Timor Sea. That is a very interesting point. Just recently the Prime Minister was in Singapore. In just about every comment from his speeches and interviews that was relayed talked about international law and a country's responsibility under international law. How ironic that back in Australia they forget their responsibilities to such a close and good neighbour to Australia as Timor-Leste.</para>
<para>It is also apparent that Australia is still resisting the median line principle in the negotiations. This was confirmed by DFAT to the Joint Standing Committee on Treaties in March this year. It is not clear that an equitable agreement will be finalised by the end of the Conciliation Commission's mandate in September 2017, and that is very troubling. That is one aspect of the briefing that the alliance gave today that left many with concerns. The alliance also fear that, regardless of the commission's report, Australia will prolong negotiations rather than expedite an agreement based on the median line.</para>
<para>This is not rocket science. It is not even hard to work out what needs to be done. The work really has been done. It is a matter of Australia having a commitment and the political will to do the right thing by Timor-Leste, the right thing as a neighbour of this country and the right thing we should do in terms of foreign affairs. History is full of examples of controversy about borders. The solution is here. The process that needs to be enacted is before us. It is time that the Australian government, led by the Prime Minister and the foreign minister, in this case did the right thing.</para>
<para>Senate adjourned at 19:34</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>3946</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Tabling</title>
          <page.no>3946</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Tabling</title>
          <page.no>3946</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1></debate>
  </chamber.xscript>
</hansard>