
<hansard version="2.2" noNamespaceSchemaLocation="../../hansard.xsd">
  <session.header>
    <date>2017-02-09</date>
    <parliament.no>45</parliament.no>
    <session.no>1</session.no>
    <period.no>2</period.no>
    <chamber>Senate</chamber>
    <page.no>0</page.no>
    <proof>1</proof>
  </session.header>
  <chamber.xscript>
    <business.start>
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        <p class="HPS-SODJobDate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
          <span class="HPS-SODJobDate">
            <span style="font-weight:bold;"></span>
            <a type="" href="Chamber">Thursday, 9 February 2017</a>
          </span>
        </p>
        <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
          <span class="HPS-Normal">
            <span style="font-weight:bold;">The PRESIDENT (Senator the Hon. </span>
            <span style="font-weight:bold;">Stephen Parry)</span> took the chair at 09:30, read prayers and made an acknowledgement of country.</span>
        </p>
      </body>
    </business.start>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>1</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Tabling</title>
          <page.no>1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>1</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Meeting</title>
          <page.no>1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:31</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Does any senator wish to have the question put on any proposal? There being none, we proceed to business.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BILLS</title>
        <page.no>1</page.no>
        <type>BILLS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>National Integrity Commission Bill 2013</title>
          <page.no>1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
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            <a type="Bill" href="s936">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">National Integrity Commission Bill 2013</span>
              </p>
            </a>
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        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>1</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:31</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKIM</name>
    <name.id>JKM</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>In lieu of immediately moving to suspend standing orders, I seek leave to make a five-minute statement regarding the forced deportations from Manus Island that are currently underway.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Is leave granted?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Fifield</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Can he do that after we have called on legislation?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Fifield, in consultation with the Clerk, I am thinking about what you have just interjected to Senator McKim. The appropriate time would have been before we called upon business. I am in the hands of the Senate. If the Senate does not wish for you to be heard in the manner that you have been heard, then we will proceed with business. If the Senate wishes for you to be availed of the opportunity to seek leave, I am in the hands of the Senate.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Brandis</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>As the Manager of Government Business has pointed out, we have now embarked upon the consideration of the National Integrity Commission Bill 2013. This is not really a question of seeking to suspend standing orders, because we are embarked upon the consideration of a particular listed item of business. If Senator McKim wanted to seek leave to make a statement, he should have sought leave before we had embarked upon the business. We have now embarked upon the business. When that business is concluded in the orderly conduct of the Senate, that is the time for Senator McKim to seek leave to make a statement.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you. I concur, Senator Brandis.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKim</name>
    <name.id>JKM</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Could I seek your guidance, please, Mr President. I accept your ruling, obviously, on this matter. Could you advise me whether I can now move to suspend standing orders, or do I have an option to ask that the consideration of private members business be put aside in order that I can either seek leave or move to suspend standing orders?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I understand what you are asking, Senator McKim. No, you cannot. You can do things between items of business, but we have embarked upon an item of business and clearly you did not rise in your seat until after I had called upon the Clerk to call on business. There was opportunity prior to that for you to do that. But at other times during the day there will be junctures where you could take that course of action and seek leave to make a comment or statements. What course of action you take, whether that leave is granted or not, is a matter for you. I have called the Clerk, we have moved on to business and I call the first speaker.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:34</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LUDLAM</name>
    <name.id>I07</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Rhiannon for bringing this bill forward. It is entirely appropriate given what happened over the summer recess and the incredible series of indignities that the public has been exposed to. This is an incredibly important issue. We are all aware, no matter what side of politics we are on—but we are keenly aware of it up here, on the crossbench—that public confidence in parliament and parliamentarians is at an all time low. Certainly, I have been working in this building for a little over 10 years and I have never known a time when contempt for the conduct of MPs at a state and federal level has been higher. That is something that everybody who works in this building needs to bear a measure of responsibility for. We in the Australian Greens are aware that there are things that we can do to lead by example that can help restore a measure of confidence. One of those things that the Greens have been pursuing essentially for as long as we have been a political party is a national anti-corruption commission.</para>
<para>I want to talk a little bit about the Western Australian context in a moment, but firstly I want to go through a little bit of the history and remind senators of how long this issue has been running for. In 2010, Greens Senator Bob Brown introduced the National Integrity Commissioner Bill. In 2012 our member for Melbourne, Adam Bandt, introduced a similar bill into the House of Representatives. In 2013 Senator Christine Milne introduced a National Integrity Commission Bill. In 2015 Senator Rhiannon introduced a motion calling for a national anti-corruption body and political donations reform. I can remember sitting here on the crossbench and having that motion voted down by the Labor Party and the Liberal Party. If my memory serves me, a substantial number of crossbenchers supported the Greens and of course the major parties did not. In 2016 Senator Rhiannon reintroduced the National Integrity Commission Bill. How long is this debate going to need to run for? We have been prosecuting this case in here for more than a decade. The public support for a measure of this sort has never been higher. We are elected in here to represent the public interest, not to line our own pockets and not to set up future career paths in the mining industry, the banking sector or the gambling industry. We are here to serve the public interest. There would probably be a substantial number of people listening to this broadcast or checking in online who are choking over their coffee at the idea that that is what politicians come in here to do. What better way to begin to restore confidence in the work that is done in here than a national anticorruption commission?</para>
<para>I will take an interjection from Senator Rhiannon if she is able to remind me how many New South Wales politicians were eventually prosecuted or went to jail.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Rhiannon</name>
    <name.id>CPR</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>It is very hard to count, but 11 Liberal MPs.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LUDLAM</name>
    <name.id>I07</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Eleven Liberal MPs! I will take that interjection, Senator Rhiannon.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>That is a little bit disorderly and cheeky, Senator Ludlam. Interjections are disorderly.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Ian Macdonald</name>
    <name.id>YW4</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>You might talk about all the Labor people in jail for worse than corruption, Senator Ludlam.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LUDLAM</name>
    <name.id>I07</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Hit a bit of a nerve, have we, Senator Macdonald? I've missed you so much!</para>
<para class="italic">Senator Ian Macdonald interjecting—</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LUDLAM</name>
    <name.id>I07</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Yes, that is right.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>To the chair, Senator Ludlam.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LUDLAM</name>
    <name.id>I07</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Through you, Mr President—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>To me, not through me.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LUDLAM</name>
    <name.id>I07</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Yes, senior Labor MPs—ministers. Senator Macdonald is quite right: there is mud on both sides.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Ian Macdonald</name>
    <name.id>YW4</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>And on your own team.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LUDLAM</name>
    <name.id>I07</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I do not actually believe any Greens MP at any level of parliament or local government, state or federal, has ever suffered the kind of indignity and accusations of corruption that your side of politics, Senator Macdonald, and the Labor side of politics have been subjected to.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Ian Macdonald</name>
    <name.id>YW4</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>What about the last Senate election in Western Australia, where you weren't elected?</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LUDLAM</name>
    <name.id>I07</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Let's talk about Western Australia.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Siewert</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I beg your pardon!</para>
<para class="italic">Senator Ian Macdonald interjecting—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! Senator Macdonald and Senator Siewert, order!</para>
<para class="italic">Senator Siewert interjecting—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order, Senator Siewert! Senators, if you wish to have a discussion about this across the chamber, leave the chamber and do it outside. Senator Ludlam has the call. Senator Ludlam, you may continue.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LUDLAM</name>
    <name.id>I07</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thanks, President. Going to Western Australia, a little bit before my time in politics, WA Inc is a name that probably lives on in infamy, when the stench of corruption in the state Labor government, going back into the 1980s and 1990s, became impossible to ignore. The government was eventually rolled out of office on that basis.</para>
<para>I acknowledge that the practice of anticorruption commissions at a state level is extremely uneven and there is not really consistency in the way that these commissions operate, but we know that a major missing piece of the architecture is that no such thing exists at a federal level. The Australian Greens' proposal has been on the <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline> for more than 10 years, if senators would care to go back and analyse what it is that we have been proposing, but I will just remind senators—</para>
<para class="italic">Senator Jacinta Collins interjecting—</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LUDLAM</name>
    <name.id>I07</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I am sorry, Senator Collins? People are so rowdy this morning, President. I do not know if I am being unusually provocative.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Ignore the interjections, Senator Ludlam. Senators, do not interject.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LUDLAM</name>
    <name.id>I07</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I am doing my best here. The proposal that the Greens have put forward and that Senator Rhiannon has put on the <inline font-style="italic">Notice Paper</inline> today is effectively a threefold body: a law enforcement integrity commissioner—so effectively taking the existing Australian Commission for Law Enforcement Integrity and rolling it into a body that will then incorporate a national integrity commissioner and an independent parliamentary adviser. The independent parliamentary adviser, you would imagine, would be the sort of person who would advise—before the fact rather than after—on helicopter charters, for example, or trips to polo matches, or taxpayer funded trips to weddings in India, or the various other disgraceful activities through which MPs in this building have eventually had their careers terminated—not through any kind of due process but effectively by public outrage. We saw it happen with the health minister over the summer break: pad out your investment portfolio with spontaneous purchases of investment properties on the Gold Coast—a brilliant idea!—and then have the taxpayer pick up the tab for the flights, the Comcars and whatever else.</para>
<para>These are the sorts of activities that MPs can avoid finding themselves enmeshed in if you have an independent parliamentary adviser. I do not believe the helicopter charters from Mrs Bishop or the taxpayer funded investment property splurge are grey areas at all, but anybody who has spent any time in here would be aware that there are grey areas around the use of entitlements, or the fact that they are even called entitlements at all. All of us from time to time could use somebody—an independent umpire on the end of the phone line—to ring up and say, 'I don't know about this; is this within the rules or not?' So an independent parliamentary adviser is a really important part of this.</para>
<para>The third body, obviously, is a national integrity commissioner. That is where the rubber hits the road. That is where you discover the kind of activities that destroyed a Labor government in WA and that have so disfigured politics in New South Wales. I think probably all of us representing the states and territories around the country would be very well aware that there is no level of government that has not from time to time been tainted with a hint—or a lot more than a hint—of corruption. Why would we imagine, as a government senator—I forget exactly who it was—tried to put to us yesterday, that at the Commonwealth tier of government, dealing with enormous sums of money and with very close contacts between ministers and industry and diaries that are not released into the public domain, we would be somehow magically immune? I think it is absolutely essential that we have this final—or not final but important—piece of institutional architecture, a corruption oversight body looking after what goes on in this chamber and in the other place just across the building.</para>
<para>I want to come to a couple of examples that are much closer to home. It was rather extraordinary again to hear a government spokesperson yesterday tell us we do not need a national anticorruption watchdog and it is better if this sort of thing is diffused throughout the Public Service. The minister is effectively saying, 'We'd rather nobody was in charge; we'd rather there was nobody where the buck stopped to keep an eye on this, unearth corruption, be able to take evidence and be able to be the person where the buck stops.' They would rather that that be diffused and that it not really be anybody's responsibility. I do not know if it is the first time that that form of argument has been run, but I found it peculiar and entirely unconvincing.</para>
<para>An example of where I think we could use this kind of body is in the Western Australian context. You will be aware, because Senator Siewert and I have been raising this matter for many years—as have Senator Lines and Senator Sterle—of the matter of the Perth Freight Link, the so-called Roe 8 extension back in Western Australia. It was announced very suddenly by the Liberal government right before the 2013 federal election. It is one of these dead dogs of a policy from former Prime Minister Tony Abbott that is still stinking up the place. There is WestConnex, there is the East West Link and there is Roe Highway. It is one of those kinds of zombie policies, a tremendously expensive one, that refuses to fall over. That was $1.2 billion of Australian taxpayers' money committed on a whim, effectively signed off on the back of an envelope by former Prime Minister Tony Abbott, with no business case and no public cost-benefit analysis.</para>
<para>And, what do you know, the contract has been awarded—by the state government, I should say, not the Commonwealth—to a consortium of companies led by Leighton Holdings. I do not know if this was anything to do with brand damage, but they renamed themselves CIMIC a little while ago. They are a massive donor to the Liberal Party. Leighton have donated nearly $700,000 to the WA Liberal and National parties. That buys a lot of TV time, doesn't it? That buys a lot of access. That buys a lot of quiet conversations. These old private-school networks, old boys clubs, are greased by a $700,000 political donation—all above board, nothing illegal. That is $700,000 to the Liberal and National parties.</para>
<para>This is a corporation that is bidding for a massive government contract. So, for your $700,000—entirely above board—you can go in to bid for a $1.2 billion engineering and construction contracts. That is a clear conflict of interest. No wonder trust in the institutions, with that queasy interface between commerce and politics, is at an all-time low.</para>
<para>We think that it is time to ban political donations from for-profit corporations. I know that is going to cause a degree of hyperventilation from the other end of the chamber because it is that money that helped put you here, but we think that these things should be banned. Leighton is a $6.3 billion company; it runs mining, construction and engineering projects all around the globe; and it has been described as company where corrupt practices were absolutely endemic. Highly paid senior executives used a range of bribery techniques, including kickbacks to subcontractors, special payments to procure contracts, and facilitation payments. So, while these bribery incidents occurred overseas, Leighton's involvement with Australian government funded projects has been questioned. Who would you put these kinds of questions to? At the moment, there is nobody. There is nobody that you can put these kinds of questions to.</para>
<para>As I said, Leighton now operate under the name of CIMIC, after corruption allegations came to light in 2013. So that's fine—just change the name! We do not know whether those practices have changed, whether the corporate culture has changed or whether these kinds of under-the-table activities are occurring here in Australia, because there is nobody tasked to find out.</para>
<para>In 2013, <inline font-style="italic">The Sydney Morning Herald </inline>reported 'Building giant Leighton rife with corruption', and they disclosed evidence of massive bribery and corruption in the way that contracts were being won around the world—most notoriously, the multimillion-dollar kickbacks paid to win contracts in Iraq, which were later investigated by the Australian Federal Police. As recently as 31 January of this year, the <inline font-style="italic">Herald </inline>reported 'Building giant Leighton rife with corruption', and I want to quote from that article:</para>
<quote><para class="block">In revelations that will cause international embarrassment for Australia and raise questions about the role of the nation's corporate watchdog, the files expose plans to pay alleged multimillion-dollar kickbacks in Iraq, Indonesia, Malaysia and elsewhere, along with other serious corporate misconduct.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Hundreds of confidential company documents, obtained during a six-month Fairfax Media investigation, also reveal a culture of rewarding corruption or incompetence, and abysmal corporate governance in what looms as the worst recent case of corporate corruption involving a major Australian firm.</para></quote>
<para>So they can throw down $700,000 here in Australia and, as if by magic, through some black-box tendering process that is shrouded in commercial-in-confidence—this parliament has not been able to assess exactly why that contract was won or whether the contract represents value for money—they nailed down a $1.2 billion construction contract for a completely pointless road, a freight highway through an important wetland area, an area of enormous significance to Aboriginal people, an area of very high neighbourhood amenity, an area that has being dubbed the Kings Park of the south. Anybody from Western Australia will know that this is an area of extraordinary biodiversity and of extraordinary value to the community, and it is being torn in half, effectively, by this project.</para>
<para>I want to acknowledge Senator Rhiannon's work, particularly on the Democracy for Sale site. In many ways, our New South Wales colleagues are a bit ahead of the curve, presumably because—knowing a little bit about the way politics have worked in New South Wales in the past—it has been essential that the New South Wales Greens have held the major parties to account, partly because the institutions have not really been there to do so. The Greens have been a really important part, in New South Wales and elsewhere around the country, of holding the major parties to account and trying to throw some sunlight on that interface between corporations, commerce and the political tier.</para>
<para>This weekend, the launch of the Greens WA state election campaign is underway, and I am very proud to foreshadow an announcement that my colleagues will be making on integrity in government—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Ian Macdonald</name>
    <name.id>YW4</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Is that what this is all about—a bit short of votes, are you?</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LUDLAM</name>
    <name.id>I07</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>because in WA we know that vested interest groups and wealthy powerbrokers have been able to undermine and influence our democratic system. It is one of the reasons people are fleeing the major parties in droves, including your party, Senator Macdonald. I do not know whether you snoozed through that part of the memo, but you lot are really on the nose, and confidence in government, confidence in the Liberal and National parties, is at an all-time low.</para>
<para>For example, there is the aggressive attack that the mining lobby has thrown into the field against the proposal to increase royalties in Western Australia. The mining industry wields extraordinary power. We saw that in the way that they damaged and ultimately destroyed the prime ministership of former Prime Minister Kevin Rudd. Meanwhile, the government are abusing freedom-of-information requests; they hide behind commercial-in-confidence excuses to keep out of the public eye these slimy deals that they make.</para>
<para>The Greens believe that a resilient democracy depends on all levels of government being transparent about how these decisions are made. That includes this tier of government. I am looking forward to coalition spokespeople standing up to tell us why there is nothing to see here and why they do not feel the need for an anticorruption watchdog at a Commonwealth level. I am really looking forward to that. Please go ahead, those on the coalition side—because I understand that, after 20 years of campaigning by the Australian Greens, the Labor Party ship, like that oil tanker at sea, may be slowly turning.</para>
<para>I remember being told by the coalition side when we were debating mandatory data retention that, if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear. Do you remember that? Anybody complaining about overwhelmingly intrusive government surveillance was told, 'If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear.' I think at a personal level, as far as personal privacy is concerned, that argument is completely hollow but, in terms of powerful institutions and in terms of governments writing cheques for billions of dollars at a time to their mates in the construction industry, to oil and gas companies, to engineering companies and to developers, what is it that you have to fear?</para>
<para>I am reasonably sure that when you stand up and try to run counterarguments to this incredibly sensible and longstanding proposal by Senator Rhiannon you are going to tell us that you have nothing to hide. Well then let us see. Let us get these cards on the table. Let us have a national anticorruption watchdog to do the kind of job that is being done in New South Wales and has done so much good, not necessarily to restore confidence in politics and the rule of law but at least to raise the bar to corruption and to increase transparency so that people doing these slimy deals behind closed doors are aware that there may be some consequences. It is about time that those consequences fell due at a Commonwealth level.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:53</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator IAN MACDONALD</name>
    <name.id>YW4</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My contempt knows no end for parliamentarians who use this cowards' castle to play the populous game to further their own careers by innuendo, making claims against individual Australians, corporations and colleagues in this place. We have just heard such a speech. It would be very easy for me to join the populist bandwagon and refer, as some of the lazy media did, to Senator Siewert's travel expenses. I was the first to defend Senator Siewert because she, after me, is one of the hardest-working parliamentarians in this place. She is the chair or the deputy chair of several committees. Her travel expenses are large, but, hang on, she happens to live in Perth and represent Western Australia. Of course, to get to Canberra she has to fly a lot. I know I rarely agree with Senator Siewert, but I do acknowledge she is one of the most committed and hardworking politicians here.</para>
<para>One of the others who were attacked by the populist press—and supported by people like Senator Ludlam, no doubt—was the member for Lingiari. His travel expenses are high. Well, what a surprise. He lives in Darwin. He represents the Cocos (Keeling) Islands. He comes to Canberra half of the year to do what he is paid to do. Of course his travel expenses are high.</para>
<para>It is easy for politicians and lazy journalists to make these complaints by innuendo. I challenge Senator Ludlam. He spent 20 minutes denigrating Australian citizens, Australian corporations and politicians. If he has one skerrick, one iota, one little bit, of evidence, please refer it to the existing watchdog. Jason Clare, a Labor member of parliament, said in 2012:</para>
<quote><para class="block">ACLEI has the powers of a standing Royal Commission. It has the power to coerce people to give evidence, to hold public hearings, to execute search warrants, to tap phones and to conduct digital and physical surveillance and it has used these powers in this case—</para></quote>
<para>in the case he was talking about. If Senator Ludlam has just one skerrick of evidence to back up the disgraceful, dishonest speech that he has just made, he should go and see ACLEI. If he is too stupid to find their phone number, I will give it to him. I will text it to him.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>00AOP</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Macdonald, it is not very pleasant to refer to Senator Ludlam in that way. If you could withdraw, thank you.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator IAN MACDONALD</name>
    <name.id>YW4</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I withdraw 'stupid'. If he is so base that he cannot find the phone number of ACLEI, I will text it to him. Australia already has zero tolerance to corruption in all of its forms and so does particularly this government. We do not support the Craig Thomsons of this world. We are determined to have zero tolerance to corruption.</para>
<para>We have strong laws and a robust, multiagency approach to combating corruption. A range of agencies play a role in preventing, detecting and responding to corruption. We have ACLEI, the Australian Commission for Law Enforcement Integrity, which I have already mentioned. The AFP-hosted fraud and anticorruption centre brings together a range of Commonwealth agencies to respond to serious fraud and corruption matters, including government services, programs and employees. The Commonwealth provided an additional $15 million to that centre in April last year under the coalition government. This framework provides significant coverage of fraud and corruption across Australian government agencies, with particular focus on areas of high corruption risk.</para>
<para>I do not cast aspersions or innuendos on anyone, but in the exchange I had with Senator Siewert earlier I raised the issue of the missing bundle of votes in Western Australia from the last Senate election. What happened to them? I know you do not know, Mr Acting Deputy President Sterle, neither, unfortunately, do the Australian Federal Police, although in their evidence to the electoral matters committee—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Siewert</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr Acting Deputy President, I rise on a point of order. Senator Macdonald is going into I think very dangerous territory. He is about to make certain accusations. It is unparliamentary and I ask you to ask him not to go there.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e68</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Siewert, I have just walked in and sat in the chair. I have heard about two sentences from Senator Macdonald. I can consult with the clerks, but at this stage I am not going to. I am going to give Senator Macdonald the call and I will take it from there.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator IAN MACDONALD</name>
    <name.id>YW4</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>That was the most curious point of order I have ever heard. Senator Siewert was interpreting what I am going to say next.</para>
<para class="italic">Senator Siewert interjecting—</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator IAN MACDONALD</name>
    <name.id>YW4</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>You are making a point of order on something that you think, in your funny mind, I might be about to say. I had finished my comments on the 2013 election. All I will say is that the Federal Police indicated to the Joint Standing Committee on Electoral Matters that there was certainly something wrong but they were unable to find out why. I might say, Senator Siewert, after defending you—and I will continue to defend you because I know you are honest and I know you work incredibly hard—that you will never find me taking a cheap shot at you over that. I will take a shot at some of your hypocritical policies, yes, but not—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e68</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Macdonald, I ask that you direct your comments through the chair. Senator Ludlam, on a point of order?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Ludlam</name>
    <name.id>I07</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>That was my point of order. Senator Macdonald has been in here for hundreds of years. He knows that he needs to direct his comments through you, Mr Acting Deputy President.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator IAN MACDONALD</name>
    <name.id>YW4</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>You always know when you are making a point that the Greens are embarrassed about, because they will make those ridiculous points of order simply to curtail me. I will not go into the matter of the largest single donation to any political party in the history of Australia.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Cash</name>
    <name.id>I0M</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Please do.</para>
<para class="italic">Senator Ludlam interjecting—</para>
<para class="italic">Senator Siewert interjecting—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Jacinta Collins</name>
    <name.id>GB6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Malcolm's is bigger now.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator IAN MACDONALD</name>
    <name.id>YW4</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Hang on—Malcolm Turnbull puts his own money in his own re-election. I did not want to mention Mr Wood's name, but the biggest single donation to a political party ever in Australian history went to the Greens political party. I happen to be on a committee where the then Greens leader sought to get an exemption from some form of Commonwealth tax for those who might want to set up an online newspaper. I am not going to join the dots together on which person it was that was trying to do that. I will just say that I wish ACLEI had been around at the time.</para>
<para>So we have these holier-than-thou people come here, casting aspersions by innuendo, but can I tell them I have good news for them. The government has announced a bill coming forward shortly to set up an authority to oversee parliamentary allowances. I am sure the Greens will support the amendment that I will be moving to that bill. I, not the government, will be moving the amendment to that bill to include public servants in the same authority.</para>
<para>I very rarely read <inline font-style="italic">The Canberra Times</inline>, but I saw an editorial in <inline font-style="italic">The Canberra Times</inline>. It was published just the other day, but it was referring to editorial from last month. It is called 'Time to expose bureaucrats' wayward spending, too?' and it has the subheading 'Transparency'. I make the point that I have found every Commonwealth bureaucrat that I have ever had dealings with—and I had some very close dealings when I was a minister, and in estimates since—to be incredibly dedicated, incredibly honest, very transparent and great servants of the Australian people. But the bureaucracy is enormous, and you only have to read this article in <inline font-style="italic">The Canberra Times</inline> to realise that there should be, perhaps, the same accountability and openness for the hundreds of thousands, certainly tens of thousands, of Commonwealth bureaucrats who help govern Australia. There are infinitely more than there are politicians in this chamber, most of whom have infinitely more power and spending capability than anyone in Parliament House. So I would think that it is time to widen the net—perhaps to the judiciary as well, perhaps to some of these tribunals and perhaps to institutions and statutory authorities like the Human Rights Commission. Maybe we should have the same transparency from them, but we never hear from the Greens. We never hear that too often from the Labor Party either, I might say, but what a good idea.</para>
<para>I am quite certain, after hearing Senator Ludlam, that he will be seconding my amendment when I bring it to this chamber. I suspect there are not going to be too many on my side to second it, but I am sure after that rousing speech by Senator Ludlam that he and his party will be supporting the extension of this parliamentarians oversight committee to the Public Service. I notice Senator Ludlam and the Greens are all of a sudden finding something very important to talk about and will not listen to this, but let me have your assurance that I will have your support in moving this amendment.</para>
<para>Australia has consistently been ranked by Transparency International‎ as one of the least corrupt countries in the world. That is because we have these institutions. We have accountability and openness among parliamentarians that, quite frankly, is beyond understanding. There is even this great battle, which the shadow Attorney-General seems to be fixated on, about wanting parliamentarians to indicate to the world who they see, what they see, when they see them, where they are going to be and where they have been. It is great news for a would-be criminal or someone who is intent on criminal activity against parliamentarians, under the guise of accountability. This parliament is where you call ministers to account. This parliament is where you ask them what they have been doing or where they have been doing it. The shadow Attorney-General seems fixated—dare I use that terminology—on exposing the activities of the Attorney-General. Mind you, the Attorney-General is the minister in charge of security in this nation, and the shadow Attorney-General wants his diary to be made public. I guess it will not be long before mine is asked for too—although you do not have to worry about mine; I put on Facebook where I am going to be all the time. That is no secret.</para>
<para>This Greens bill is again an action by a party that is falling in the polls. Those of us who have been around a long time have seen the Democrats come and go; we have seen One Nation come and go and come back, and it will go again; and we have seen the Greens come and I predicted sometime ago that they would go in Europe, and they are going, and I predicted sometime ago that they would go in Australia, and they are on the downward climb now. They used to attract a bit of a protest vote from those who did not like the government, who did not like the Labor Party, but I am sorry, guys in the Greens—through you, Mr Acting Deputy President—that protest vote is now going to One Nation and we will, fortunately, see the end of the hypocrisy in a policy sense of the Greens political party. Australia will be a better place for that.</para>
<para>The Greens are trying to maintain what little support they hold around Australia—around eight per cent at last call, and going southwards—by jumping on the populist bandwagon: every politician, and particularly the Liberal politicians in the Western Australian government, are all bad. Senator Ludlam, who is really the far left extension of the Labor Party—I pity the Labor Party for that; I am sorry you have to bow to their wishes—forgot to mention all the Labor politicians in jail for very serious offences. But that is the Greens way. You will never hear Senator Rhiannon attack Labor Party politicians, even though in her state there are enormous numbers she could be attacking. Your own political leaning, and your own populist approach to matters, prevents you from doing that, and it shows the dishonesty of the argument of the Greens political party.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Ludlam</name>
    <name.id>I07</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>You're on broadcast.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator IAN MACDONALD</name>
    <name.id>YW4</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Good heavens, I would not have guessed that without hearing Senator Ludlam's first speech—always there for broadcast day, always there when he thinks he might be able to resurrect or retain some of the few people who vote for the Greens political party. I think Australians are waking up to the absolute hypocrisy of the Greens, and they now see the Greens under pressure. The Labor Party I think are at last understanding that they really have to separate themselves from the Greens, otherwise the Greens will take over their dwindling support on the left—it still will not save the Greens; it will just take the Greens and the Labor Party down at the same time. These populist parties, who do extract people who say 'a pox on all your houses', have left the Greens and gone elsewhere.</para>
<para>As I said in our party room the other day—I do not want to indicate what was said in the party room but these are my own thoughts, not the party room's thoughts especially—it is about time our leaders—all of our leaders, and Senator Di Natale would be a good start—started emphasising how much work politicians do, how much commitment most of the people who sit in this parliament—most, I might add—have. They are here because they believe in Australia and they believe that they can make a contribution to Australia. By the standards in the community they do not get particularly well-paid, and there are hundreds of examples of that. Someone has to stand up, rather than just Senator Ludlam joining the populist theme and denigrating by innuendo everybody in this chamber and the other chamber, and start arguing for politicians, arguing for parliamentarians, saying why they are there. Most parliamentarians—or those on this side—would have done infinitely better financially staying in their legal practice, staying in their business, staying in their veterinary practice, staying in the jobs they had before. That is not why they have come into this chamber. I will be talking on this again in another bill coming up, and I will be opposing my government and again moving amendments. If the Greens were true to their cause, they would be supporting me too. They might on the authority one, but they will not on the other one. They are without value, without any semblance of directness and honesty, when it comes to policy matters.</para>
<para>We do in Australia at the moment have all of the elements to ensure that Australia, its government, its institutions and its businesses are as corruption free as possible, and certainly we are as good as anyone else in the world. In December last year the government released its first National Action Plan under the Open Government Partnership. This consisted of a number of commitments to advanced transparency, accountability, public participation and technical innovation in Australia over the next two years. As I have foreshadowed, I have a couple of amendments to government bills that, if adopted by the parliament, would add to the role of that plan. I will be seeking the support of other senators—not with a great deal of confidence, I might say, but I will seek that support—and we will see then the rhetoric of the Greens, their nontransparency, their appeal to the populists—those who are leaving the Greens in droves. We will see how they carry on. Australia is not perfect, but we are as good as any other country in the world. We are as good as you possibly can be in a democracy and in a large business operation like the governance of Australia. I will certainly oppose this bill.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:14</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator JACINTA COLLINS</name>
    <name.id>GB6</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I do not intend to continue the slanging match that has been an unfortunate element of the discussion so far here this morning. But, as Senator Ludlam pointed out, we have dealt with the National Integrity Commission Bill 2013 in several different iterations over some time. I went back to the 2010 Bob Brown version of the bill. I am not sure if there was one earlier than that that I have missed, Senator Ludlam. We have had several discussions around this bill, but, in its last iteration, I did not have the opportunity to contribute. As I understand it, we will be moving on to the next matter fairly soon, but I do appreciate the opportunity to deal with some of the substance around how we might deal with issues around integrity and corruption.</para>
<para>Let me say it from the outset: I want to make it clear that Labor stand for integrity and transparency in government, and we have zero tolerance for corruption. But, as we all know, corruption does occur. We cannot pretend that it does not occur at a federal level. Further to Senator Macdonald's comments a moment ago, I seem to recall a recent indication from Transparency International that Australia had actually slipped in their index, and, if that is the case, that is obviously a concern.</para>
<para>I also want to make it clear at the outset that Labor's position in relation to this Greens party bill is that unfortunately it is stale, out of date and, in some respects, obsolete. Had Senator Ludlam—and, I should say, I welcome back Senator Ludlam, and it is great to see him back here in good health—been with us in the last little while, perhaps he might have addressed some of the issues where matters have moved on. I will outline some of those.</para>
<para>As I said, Labor has always fostered and will continue to foster a culture of integrity within Commonwealth public institutions. That is why Labor supports the Australian National Audit Office, the Australian Public Service Commission, the Commonwealth Ombudsman, the Australian Federal Police, the Australian Criminal Intelligence Commission and other law enforcement and accountability measures which together help to create a culture of integrity in the public sector. Looking at what has moved on with respect to this bill, one further element that Senator Macdonald touched on is, of course, that Labor in 2012 strengthened ACLEI, and that is part of our broader integrity framework.</para>
<para>There have been periodic calls for some form of a federal anticorruption commission over recent years, including in this private senator's bill. While Labor have zero tolerance for corruption, we believe that the best way to proceed is with the re-establishment of the Senate Select Committee on the establishment of a National Integrity Commission to continue its important inquiry and produce a final report. I recommend to the Senate the interim report, which was tabled back in May of last year, which is a good indicator of the further work that the committee that was established yesterday will conduct.</para>
<para>Labor does not rule out that in the future a dedicated federal anticorruption body may be required. However, our final position on the value and merits of establishing a national integrity commission should not be considered until the completion of this inquiry. That is a considered and sensible approach to take, unlike simply, as Senator Macdonald was suggesting, taking the populist path of rehashing an old proposal that is not even up to date in terms of the current frameworks in place, moving formal motions yesterday and giving this bill yet another consideration today. Some of it is, as I have said, out of date, and it is simply a rehash of many past discussions rather than a means of moving matters forward.</para>
<para>Let us take a closer look at what the Greens are proposing and why the bill is stale and obsolete. It is clear the Greens are behind the game and need to catch up on some significant recent developments, including that just yesterday, as I said, the Senate determined to re-establish the Senate Select Committee on the establishment of a National Integrity Commission. In part, this was a response to recent community frustration and controversy around the entitlement matters that other senators have referred to, culminating in the resignation of disgraced former health minister Sussan Ley.</para>
<para>Another recent and significant development is the government's plan to establish an independent parliamentary expenses authority to advise on and regulate parliamentary expenses. In his address to the National Press Club last Tuesday, Labor leader Bill Shorten made it clear that the opposition agreed in principle with the proposal in an attempt to begin to restore public confidence in the political process. Perhaps, rather than just moving forward this proposed threefold body, if we are to address this matter again, we should improve its currency and address the way in which it is proposed to move forward in relation to the parliamentary entitlements element of this current bill.</para>
<para>As I said, at the moment it represents the same bill that Bob Brown first introduced in 2010 and Christine Milne regurgitated in 2013, and now there is this current version. As I said, I do not think I will address the slanging match issues around political donations, but it is an interesting question about how a body such as this may, and whether the model proposed will, address some of the debate and indeed posturing around political donations.</para>
<para>The Senate Select Committee on the establishment of a National Integrity Commission was established on 24 February last year with Labor's support to inquire into whether a national integrity commission should be set up to address institutional, organisational, political, electoral and individual corruption and misconduct, and I was the deputy chair of that inquiry. The committee, as I have mentioned, published an interim report in May 2016, prior to the dissolution of the parliament for the July election. The interim report includes a discussion about the existing national anticorruption framework and the potential benefits and drawbacks of creating a national anticorruption commissioner. It is worth briefly examining some of the committee's findings and its one recommendation, but it is also important to remember that the committee was unable to complete its work and issue a final report.</para>
<para>The Senate select committee had, as I said, one recommendation:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… that the Australian Government support current and sound future research into potential anti-corruption systems appropriate for Australia …</para></quote>
<para>Griffith University and other partners were looking at conducting that work, and I look forward to an update on what has occurred since the former committee looked at these issues. That was a wise recommendation. The committee was unable to complete its work and it is clear that there is a lot more work still to do before serious consideration can be given to whether some form of anticorruption commission should be established at a federal level to complement existing anticorruption and integrity bodies and, if so, how such a body should operate.</para>
<para>The committee's interim report is a good document and raises some of the key issues for further examination. It lists arguments in favour of a national anticorruption framework, the top of the list being the discovery and investigation of corruption. But the report says:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… a NAC may also improve policy co-ordination, provide leadership and education services, reduce potential jurisdictional gaps, increase administrative efficiency, send an unambiguous signal that the issue of corruption is being taken seriously, and provide confidence to the public that corruption is minimised at the highest level of government.</para></quote>
<para>All states now have broad based anticorruption agencies. The Senate select committee looked at the effectiveness of such bodies. The most recent report into the New South Wales ICAC, published in 2013, found that:</para>
<quote><para class="block">More than two-thirds indicated that the ICAC had been successful at exposing corruption and more than half indicated that the ICAC had been successful at reducing corruption.</para></quote>
<para>Then in October 2015, the outgoing Tasmanian Integrity Commissioner spoke to the ABC about the early years there with an integrity commission. She said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">"I think it's been a bit of a surprise to people that the Integrity Commission's been so effective …</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">"Often when I speak to senior people across the public sector I don't think they expected that the Integrity Commission would be as public and as resolute in pursuing its agenda as it has been.</para></quote>
<para>Let's look at the arguments against a national integrity commission, because we should understand that there are groups—sections of the media and academia, the public sector and many elected officials—who, while not in any way arguing that corruption should be ignored or underplayed, do not believe that a national anticorruption body is the best means to deal with problems of corruption that may exist.</para>
<para>The Senate select committee report found that the arguments put forward by those opposed to a national integrity commission could be put into two broad categories. The first was the argument that a lower risk, and a lower level, of corruption at the federal level reduces the need for an overarching anticorruption body. This is an argument that requires further investigation, in my view. The second argument was that there is already a strong anticorruption framework in place that has proved successful at preventing and revealing corruption in the limited cases where it has occurred. This too, I think, warrants more detailed consideration.</para>
<para>In conclusion, the task of the re-established Senate select committee is to examine whether a new national anticorruption commission would strengthen and improve our current integrity framework and, if so, to examine the pros and cons of the various models for such a body, taking into account the lessons learned from the experiences of existing state anticorruption bodies. If a new body is recommended, there are two broad models on which such a national integrity commission could be based—a statutory agency within the Attorney-General's Department or a standalone national integrity commission with the powers of a standing royal commission.</para>
<para>Another key issue to be examined by the re-established Senate Select Committee would be the extent to which the proceedings of a national integrity commission would be public. Other important matters to be discussed could include questions such as: who would be covered by a national integrity commission? That is a point that Senator Macdonald was, in his way, raising. Another question could be: who would oversee a national integrity commission?</para>
<para>As I have already said, the Senate select committee did not complete its work prior to the last election, which is why Labor strongly supports yesterday's Senate determination to re-establish the committee to build on the work already done. Its primary function will be to carefully consider the pros and cons of the establishment of a national integrity commission and the various models that have been proposed. That is work which has not really been part of the discussion that has occurred while this bill has been addressed. Labor is open to the idea that a dedicated federal anticorruption body may be required but, at this stage, a case for one has not been made and it definitely has not been made through the discussions on this bill.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:29</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ROBERTS</name>
    <name.id>266524</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>As a servant to the people of Queensland and Australia, I have to express that I am staggered yet not surprised by the Greens' motion. We oppose this window-dressing that is merely the ghost of Senator Milne. We have all we need to do our jobs in this parliament. Yet clearly, in listening to the people of Queensland, people think parliament is not doing its job. We know that. This is now an admission by the Greens that they are not doing their job. Instead of speaking to sell, why don't the Green start to listen to learn?</para>
<para>Accountability in this parliament, as I have said very often, is almost nonexistent in some areas. So let's consider a key area of concern to the Greens—climate. On that area they contradict empirical scientific evidence and fabricate claims. On their claims, this parliament has been railroaded into wasting tens of billions of dollars of taxpayer money. That is not accountability. It is all based on a lie. The renewable policy right now is killing South Australian manufacturing. It is a deindustrialisation policy that the Greens are submitting this country too. It is a deindustrialisation policy that is being ignored by the government of South Australia and by the Xenophon Team and others in this parliament. Now we have the Western Australian Liberals wanting to take up a 50 per cent renewable energy target. Yet there is no evidence anywhere for this—none at all. The only evidence we have is that it is doing enormous damage. The accountability is low, and the Greens are leading this destruction and industrialisation of our country.</para>
<para>We need, and we have been talking about requesting, an inquiry into climate science and fraud, but the Greens run whenever we mention that. The Greens, yet again, want to spend more money, raise more money and raise more taxes to spend on yet another body that is superfluous. That is so typical of the Greens: red tape, green tape and blue tape from the UN. The Greens are tying up this country, deindustrialising this country, when what we need is to reindustrialise and get on the reindustrialisation highway.</para>
<para>To do that, what we are proposing is a transparency portal. This will solve the issue of low accountability. It can all work within the parliament and the government. I made an announcement to this effect in Bundaberg in December. It was very well received. What it means is that in real time expenses are put up for public access on a website of the federal government and each of the state governments, and that reveals everyone's spending, including the Greens' travel. That has led to immediate savings of millions of dollars in the states of the United States that have adopted that. If you do not want to call it a transparency portal, make it the integrity portal.</para>
<para>The last point I wish to make in opposing this bill from Senator Ludlam is that this is yet another example of control versus freedom. In a free environment in this parliament and in the public domain the Greens use lies, smears and labels to suppress debate. In a free environment they go straight to control. What do they want to do? They want to bring in a body that can be corrupted, as it has become in New South Wales, and they want to use that as a masquerade, supposedly to increase accountability. This is just more window-dressing. The Greens are very good at window-dressing. Instead of this excursion, this detour, we need to get back to fundamental accountability and run this parliament in a way that is in accordance with our constitution to restore accountability. I oppose this Greens bill.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:32</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RICE</name>
    <name.id>155410</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak on the National Integrity Commission Bill 2013. The Greens' position on supporting a national anticorruption agency is longstanding and based on the need to be shining a light on the murkiness that lies beneath a lot of what goes on in Australian politics and business. We have Senator Roberts over here off on his flights of fancy, which are so much more based on his narcissism and his focus that everything that he is says is right, ignoring the reality of the science of climate change, which, as we know, is accepted by 97 per cent or more of the world's scientists. We currently have the Australian Meteorological and Oceanographic Society having their conference in Canberra this week. We have just had Canberra having its hottest year on record. We have just had climate records smashed around the world. Scientists have moved on from discussing climate change to recognising the seriousness of it. Yet Senator Roberts and his One Nation crew are off on their flights of fancy that bear no relationship at all to reality and certainly no relationship to science. If we are to have an inquiry into climate change we may as well have an inquiry into gravity. We have the basic laws of physics and chemistry. Climate change is real. Dangerous global warming is happening.</para>
<para>Clearly the issue of corruption and the need for an integrity commission or an anticorruption commission strikes a raw nerve, because people do not want to believe it is happening. The Labor Party for a long time have been very reluctant and resistant to supporting the Greens' call. Since Bob Brown introduced the Greens' National Integrity Commissioner Bill in 2010 there have been seven years in this parliament. But we are pleased that finally, in the last weeks, they have recognised that this is something that the community see as important and that people want to have happening; they want to have that light shone on the murky world of donations and potential corruption. So we are pleased that they have come on board with their support for an inquiry into the need for a anticorruption body. But we believe the evidence is there. We believe that there is strong evidence that an anticorruption body is really needed. We do not think that it is necessary to go off to an inquiry. Of course, if this inquiry happens we will participate, and we believe that the evidence that will come out of that inquiry will be very strong and will show that there is a need for a really thorough, well resourced, expansive anticorruption agency at the national level, just as there is at state level in the states that already have one.</para>
<para>Senator Macdonald's contribution was amusing, basically. He said, 'Don't worry; not a problem.' The issue is that if you are in the dark, you cannot see that there is a problem. I think that is where the current government is at. I heard the government get up yesterday and say, 'No, not a problem; we don't need one; there is no evidence of corruption so therefore it's not happening.' Senator Macdonald based a lot of his speech on the fact that we already have an agency—the Australian Commission for Law Enforcement Integrity. When he was speaking I thought, let's have a look at what people feel about how comprehensive and suitable and well-resourced, how capable of dealing with these issues ACLEI is. I pulled up an article from <inline font-style="italic">The Sydney Morning Herald </inline>in May last year. I think the heading of that article tells you a lot. It really summarises the issue with ACLEI. The headline was, 'The mouse versus the dragon: law enforcement struggles against alleged customs drug network.' This article documented the issues of the underresourcing and lack of powers that ACLEI has to deal with the issue of drug smuggling across our borders.</para>
<para>This article notes that ACLEI is far smaller than most of its state anti-corruption counterparts and is also reliant on the resources of the agencies it is meant to oversee to run complex operations. In particular, it is reliant upon the Australian Federal Police. So when this issue of drug smuggling was finally passed to the Federal Police, a senior AFP officer initially deemed the evidence insufficient to begin a probe. So, yet, more drugs passed through the border. Time after time, there is evidence to show that the resources and the extent of the powers available to ACLEI are just insufficient. ACLEI's ability to investigate serious corruption was expressed as 'woeful' during a probe at Sydney airport. One security source quoted in this article said that, basically, to fight this threat to the nation's borders 'ACLEI needs to be ten-dupled in size'. The article said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Says another anti-corruption fighter who has worked alongside ACLEI on highly sensitive jobs: "They are heavily reliant on the AFP. The trouble is when you are that reliant, it infects the sort of jobs ACLEI will take on."</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This source also has concerns about ACLEI's decision to avoid public hearings into corruption, despite having the power to hold them. ACLEI is also reluctant to engage with the media about its operations, meaning the public rarely finds out about the true extent of corruption, cultural problems and management failures in the nation's border security agencies.</para></quote>
<para>Clearly, ACLEI is doing what it can with resources and powers available to it. But it is not sufficient. It is not a substitute for a broad, wide-ranging integrity commission, which is what the Greens have been calling for now for seven years.</para>
<para>Senator Macdonald also said that there was no evidence, and said hat we have good global ratings for having clean politics. He quoted that Transparency International was not concerned about us. In fact, Transparency International twice in the last 10 years has expressed concern. There was a joint study by Griffith University and Transparency International in 2005 that recommended that a new independent statutory authority be tasked as a comprehensive lead agency for investigation and prevention of official corruption, criminal activity and serious misconduct involving Commonwealth officials. Then, as recently as 2013, Transparency International Australia called for a federal anti-corruption body to be established following reports about Centrelink tenancy leases. There is a clear case that has been established over many years for the need for an integrity commission of the type that the Greens have been calling for.</para>
<para>In particular, the issue which seems to really strike a raw nerve is the issue of the influence of political donations. Our donation system in Australia operates like the downstream waters of Melbourne's Yarra River. Upstream of Melbourne, the river is pure and clean, and a place that we can be proud of. But the further we go down the river the muddier it gets. No-one would want to drink that water. And this is the problem.</para>
<para>As recently as this morning, there was an article on the ABC website with information about political donations. They begin the article by saying:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Companies, organisations and individuals arguably make political donations for one reason only: to influence Australian politics.</para></quote>
<para>They outline a dataset of where the donations have flowed 'to reveal the industries,' as they say, 'and people using their riches in a bid to buy influence.' The influence of political donations is corrupting Australian politics. Exactly how and where and which companies—we do not know because we do not have the tools to investigate it. All we know is it is extremely murky. We do not have the information to actually be able to pinpoint and do the investigation to find out which of these resource companies have actually been unduly using their influence and which decisions have been unduly influenced by those donations that of been made. But what we do know is that a huge amount of money is being handed over by donors—and, as the ABC said, for one reason only: to influence Australian politics. In 2016, there was: $6½ million from individuals; $3½ million from property and construction businesses; $1.8 million from resources; $1.7 million from unions; $1.2 million from pharmaceutical and health companies. This level of donation really shows that there is a reason why these companies are making donations. We can see exactly the influence it has. It becomes very, very murky. Whether it is gambling or pokies, cigarettes or alcohol, property development, the big roads lobby, or fossil fuels—decisions are being made that are not in the public interest.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'Sullivan</name>
    <name.id>247871</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>You people got the biggest donation. You got $1.5 million.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RICE</name>
    <name.id>155410</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Or worse—they are completely destructive.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'Sullivan</name>
    <name.id>247871</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Why don't you talk about the $1.5 million you got?</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RICE</name>
    <name.id>155410</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I will take that interjection from Senator O'Sullivan. Yes, there was a donation made by Graeme Wood to the Greens. It is no longer the biggest individual donation to a party. That was surpassed during the last election. But, yes, Graeme Wood was very, very concerned about climate change. He wanted to see action; he knew that the future of the world depends upon us taking serious, urgent, dramatic action on climate change, and he saw that the Greens were a vehicle to get more action on climate change. We know the seriousness of climate change. We know that both the Liberal and Labor parties are not taking that action. And he saw that, too. The people of Australia saw that, too.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'Sullivan</name>
    <name.id>247871</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>What do you get for $1.5 million?</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RICE</name>
    <name.id>155410</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>What he got was: he supported the Greens in being able to run a strong campaign focused upon needing to take urgent action to set up the framework that we could be taking action—the whole clean energy framework.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'Sullivan</name>
    <name.id>247871</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>You are hypocrites!</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>244247</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! Senators are entitled to be heard in silence without interjection.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RICE</name>
    <name.id>155410</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>In fact, the level of resources helped the Greens run a very successful campaign and ended up helping to give us the balance of power in the lower house and the balance of power in the Senate in that 2010 election. Together with the Labor Party, we put in place a framework for tackling climate change that we are very proud of. It has been ripped apart by your government in the years since, doing huge damage to our ability to take serious action on climate change and basically making Australia complicit in actions around the world that are seriously putting the future of our planet at risk. I am very proud of the fact that we have run a very strong campaign and that people want to support us—from Graeme Wood to the hundreds of thousands of people who support the Greens by giving small amounts like $20 in a very transparent, accountable way—to get action that serves the interests of a sustainable future for us all.</para>
<para>But look at the murkiness of other donations where we are not so clear about what the outcomes are. Look at the influence of Transurban on Victorian roads policy at the moment. I have no evidence that there is corruption there, and I am not claiming that there is corruption there, but there is not transparency and there is not accountability. What we know is that Transurban put to the Victorian government a market-led proposal to build the Western Distributor. We know that the Victorian government, at the time of the last election, suddenly changed their direction from having a different road to aiming to build this road that Transurban are proposing. There is huge amount of concern about the benefit that Transurban are going to get out of this and about the influence that they had on the Victorian government. It is not just the Greens who are concerned about this; in fact, there was considerable concern about it in the <inline font-style="italic">Herald</inline><inline font-style="italic">Sun</inline> this morning. Conservative columnist Terry McCrann—somebody who I very rarely agree with—said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">It's also been far too easy for governments — especially Labor ones — to do deals with Transurban. Transurban pays the upfront bill; the government doesn't have to borrow.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We all get a new or bigger road. You just let the meter run a few years more.</para></quote>
<para>That means that it is just a few more years of huge profits being made by Transurban, which, on the face of it, is not in the public interest. People think, 'Well, the government doesn't need to borrow,' but that money is being paid by communities, paid by the people who have to pay those tolls. They have no option but to pay those tolls. There will be a massive increase in the tolls being paid to Transurban and a massive impact on ordinary people because of the influence that Transurban have had upon the Victorian government.</para>
<para>We have the ongoing issue of those private sector interests—the roads lobby and the influence they are having—but there is also the issue of the broader influence of the fossil fuel companies and the millions of dollars in donations that they make. That is happening across the world. We are seeing that in the United States, with President Trump doing the bidding of those who want to pollute the planet, speeding up catastrophic global warming just for their own selfish, short-term greed. They want to keep on polluting, and they have a lot of money to be able influence governments to keep on polluting to serve their interests. They will keep on doing it for as long as they can get away with it.</para>
<para>Meanwhile, the planet is in a desperate state. We know that we need to pull back from fossil fuels being emitted. We know we have to transition to renewable energy. Everyone knows that that is the direction we need to head in—at least anyone who has any sense and any skerrick of a scientific understanding—and yet, because of the influence of the fossil fuel lobby, we are continuing to pollute in massive, unacceptable ways.</para>
<para>And now we have a government that is saying that suddenly coal is the new black again and that we are talking about clean coal. There is no such thing as clean coal. We get told that clean coal is clean because it is 30 per cent less polluting than other coal. I tell you: if we are going to protect the planet from dangerous climate change and if we going to protect ordinary people and our agricultural systems from climate change, 30 per cent cleaner is not good enough. We have to get down to zero carbon pollution as quickly as possible, so clean coal does not cut it.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>244247</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>A point of order, Senator Bushby?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Bushby</name>
    <name.id>HLL</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I understand that Senator Rice is very passionate about climate change, but we are here to discuss the National Integrity Commission Bill. I understand the path that led her to where she is, but I think she is off topic now.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>244247</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator Bushby. It is a wide-ranging debate, and we do canvass a range of issues, but I ask you, Senator Rice, to try to remain as relevant as possible to the matter at hand.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RICE</name>
    <name.id>155410</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I am happy to respond to Senator Bushby because in fact it is absolutely germane to this debate. We are continuing to pollute the planet in the way we are because of the influence of those fossil fuel companies corrupting the political system.</para>
<para>The Greens want to shine a light. We need to clean up that river because at the moment the waters of where those donations are going and what influence they are having are just too murky. We want to see a national anticorruption commission, an independent statutory agency that we would be able to rely upon to shine a light on what is going on. With that, I seek leave to continue my remarks later.</para>
<para>Leave granted; debate adjourned.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Defence Legislation Amendment (Parliamentary Approval of Overseas Service) Bill 2015</title>
          <page.no>14</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" style="" background="" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word">
            <a type="Bill" href="s997">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Defence Legislation Amendment (Parliamentary Approval of Overseas Service) Bill 2015</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>14</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:51</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LUDLAM</name>
    <name.id>I07</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Anybody who has been in this place for a while will be aware that the Defence Legislation Amendment (Parliamentary Approval of Overseas Service) Bill 2015 is an incredibly important bill and that it is one that has been on the <inline font-style="italic">Notice Paper</inline> since the mid-1980s. It was introduced by—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'Sullivan</name>
    <name.id>247871</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>That's right, and there's a reason for that!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LUDLAM</name>
    <name.id>I07</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>You may learn something, Senator O'Sullivan, if you just keep your mouth shut for 20 minutes.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'Sullivan</name>
    <name.id>247871</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I very much doubt it.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LUDLAM</name>
    <name.id>I07</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>You are probably right. There is not much hope, is there.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Cash</name>
    <name.id>I0M</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>We have missed your sarcasm and sense of superiority!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LUDLAM</name>
    <name.id>I07</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I have been bottling it up, Senator Cash.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>244247</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I call senators' attention to the fact that senators are entitled to be heard in silence. Senator Ludlam, continue.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LUDLAM</name>
    <name.id>I07</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thanks, Mr Acting Deputy President. This is a bill which will change the way that the Australian Defence Force can be deployed into conflict situations. It was introduced in the mid-1980s by the Australian Democrats. It was the first bill that I picked up and introduced when I took my seat in 2007. At that time, a senator from the Australian Democrats had had carriage of it. The Australian Greens have introduced this bill a number of times. I think this is the third or fourth time that it has been put on the <inline font-style="italic">Notice Paper</inline>.</para>
<para>The reason we have reintroduced this bill is that it requires parliamentary approval; it requires a debate and a vote in this chamber and in the other place before Australian forces are sent to war. When it came into parliament in the past, I argued, and other Australian Greens MPs argued, that Prime Minister Howard's captain's call on the illegal invasion of Iraqi was exhibit A to justify the urgency and importance of this bill. On a phone call from a foreign president, a foreign head of state—a single call—the Australian executive, without any recourse to parliament, without any real checks and balances, can deploy the ADF into harm's way. The horrific invasion of Iraq absolutely tore that region apart. We still have Australian defence personnel and support personnel in Iraq, Syria and Afghanistan off the back of these captains' calls to follow the United States government into harm's way, which has had an absolutely ruinous impact on that region. To be honest, I would have thought that that would have been enough to close the deal. But it has not been. The idea that an unstable American President recklessly picks up the phone to demand a commitment of Australian forces was, at that stage, something of a hypothetical, and we figured that the invasion of Iraq would probably have served to persuade most people of the need for some checks and balances.</para>
<para>The new US administration is not even a month old, but we have already seen President Trump's willingness to berate—and I would argue bully—Prime Minister Turnbull, and that is an individual who cannot even stand up to the conservatives on his own backbench. If that well-practised prime ministerial capitulation is subject to 140 characters of presidential unhinging, we could be at war in some other part of the world off the back of a tweet or a phone call, and that is not rhetoric. There are no checks and balances, there is no due process, there is no parliamentary debate and there are no votes. The Prime Minister would decide off the back of a call from the United States, from President Trump.</para>
<para>The US requires congressional approval before sending troops into war. They have more protection from this kind of impetuous action of their President than Australia does. It has been some time—it has been decades, I suspect—since that kind of formal declaration of war against another state. I recognise that the nature of warfare itself has mutated quite radically in recent decades. Nonetheless, the idea that US congressional approval would be sought and required before a deployment is an important principle. I would argue that, under US law, that needs to be upgraded to take better account of the way in which warfare is practised. Look at other democracies: Denmark, Finland, Germany, Ireland, Slovakia, South Korea, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland and Turkey. Troop deployment in all of those countries is set down in constitutional or legislative provisions. Parliamentary approval, or consultation at least, is also routinely undertaken in Austria, the Czech Republic, Italy, Japan, Luxembourg, the Netherlands and Norway. In 2013 the UK avoided embroilment in the disastrous conflict in Syria thanks to the House of Commons saving Prime Minister David Cameron from himself. That is Westminster, the parliament from which we adopted much of our practice here in Australia.</para>
<para>This is a very long overdue reform and we believe that it is a first step—an important step, but only the first step—in rethinking, reconsidering, our relationship with the United States under an unstable President. We think it is essential. When Senator O'Sullivan or any of the others stand up in a moment and decry the idea that we would submit the Australian Defence Force to a debate before we throw them into harm's way, I would like if possible—if you can bring yourselves to do it—for them to explain, if it is good enough for those other democracies, kindred democracies to Australia, to invite their parliament to consider whether the executive is on the right track, why it is impossible for Australia to contemplate a parliamentary debate and a vote before deployment.</para>
<para>Since becoming President, Donald Trump has said, 'Maybe the US should go back to Iraq and take their oil.' That puts Australian personnel at risk. That kind of unbelievably loose rhetoric puts Australian personnel at risk. He has signed executive orders to set in motion the re-establishment of CIA black sites. There may be checks and balances inside the US that prevent that from happening. We recognise that, to a degree, the new President is using these executive orders as political theatre. But he promised to bring back waterboarding. He is a fan of torture. That puts Australian personnel at risk. When he says that torture absolutely works and that the US needs to fight fire with fire, what message does that send to adversaries and those that the ADF might find themselves up against as a result of these decisions?</para>
<para>His incoming Secretary of State is Mr Rex Tillerson. I note that Foreign Minister Julie Bishop recently had a conversation with the new Secretary of State. She is quoted as having said, 'It could not have been warmer.' That is terrifying. That is a bit of a worry. It sounds as though Australia is continuing to capitulate to the interests of, I would argue, a deeply unstable and provocative new administration. During his confirmation hearing he called for China to be denied access to the artificial islands that it is building and weaponising in the South China Sea. As far as I was aware, Australia was quite supportive of the international arbitration process which was attempting to defuse the situation and also send a very strong message to the Chinese regime that that island building was provocative and in fact unlawful under the law of the sea. And that is the way in which nations resolve issues in the 21st century. No, the new Secretary of State basically says, 'Through military force, China should be prevented from accessing those islands.' There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that they would be calling on Australia, like the demands for freedom of navigation exercises that the foreign minister, in Australia's interests, had resisted. I thought the foreign minister actually did quite a good job of walking that fine line between belligerent superpowers in not in embroiling Australia in anything that could have escalated hostilities between China and the United States.</para>
<para>Do we seriously think the Turnbull government would resist the call or the tweet from President Trump that we are going to ignite a war with our most important trading partner and a nuclear power? To be perfectly frank, I think that decision should be embodied here in this parliament, so that senators and members have to sign their names and have to stand up and be counted and accountable.</para>
<para>This is a President who tweets policy off the cuff. Apparently, he tweeted out last night, 'Iran, #1 in terror'. Is he high? What does that even mean? What is he on? This is an ally that Australia has followed into every conflict since the Second World War. I argued in this place, and my colleagues have argued all week, that the alliance with the United States needs to be renegotiated, and I strongly believe that this bill is just one part of that. The regime of the United States should not assume that with one phone call they will be afforded a prime ministerial capitulation and that the ADF will be packing their gear and deployed. This parliament should have that say, and we should be held accountable to our electorates around the country for the decision that this parliament makes.</para>
<para>As I said at the outset, this bill has a fairly storeyed history, and it was submitted to inquiry by the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee a number of years ago, I think around 2009. The committee at that time refused to hold a formal hearing. They refused to take evidence directly from those from across the Defence, intelligence and diplomatic communities as to the wisdom of a reform such as this. As it happened, we held an informal hearing, and we had the usual bipartisan stifling and pooh-poohing, not based on the evidence we had heard but based on the fact that we think it is fine. The status quo is fine and 'if it's not broken don't fix it'. We think that the Prime Minister's office should be able to make these captain's calls. I submit to this chamber that the system is broken and it does need fixing. If the slaughter in Iraq does not persuade you otherwise, then maybe the unhinged tweets of an unstable President might shake your confidence just a little to give this bill another try.</para>
<para>I would like to make a couple of points in response to the anticipated criticism from those opposite. Depending on who jumps up to speak, I am not expecting that the criticisms will be literate or even comprehensible, but I will have a go. I imagine that I will hear arguments around the importance of Westminster tradition, and I would put to you—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'Sullivan</name>
    <name.id>247871</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>You are a sad individual.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LUDLAM</name>
    <name.id>I07</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Did you take that one personally, Senator O'Sullivan? You knew I was referring to you, even though I did not name you—that's interesting isn't it?</para>
<para>We do not believe that we should blindly uphold tradition if the tradition has outlasted its welcome. It is a tradition that is descended from the right of the British monarch to deploy troops into the field whenever he or she felt like it. We think that maybe modern Australia might have outlasted that tradition, and when we look to Westminster we will see that they have in fact outlasted that tradition.</para>
<para>There is not a formal war power by statute in the UK, but prime ministers from both sides of politics have undertaken that before deployment occurs they will consult with parliament, and that was what prevented them deploying into Syria couple of years ago. Democratic institutions evolve. That is part of what we do in here. It is part of what we are sent here to do. Not all of these longstanding conventions have merit.</para>
<para>Another argument Senator O'Sullivan may or may not choose to make is to imply that a parliamentary debate necessarily involves disclosure of classified military strategic intelligence information and that it would be reckless in the extreme to expose that information into the public domain before deployment—</para>
<para class="italic">Senator O'Sullivan interjecting—</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LUDLAM</name>
    <name.id>I07</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Oh, for heaven's sake! Is there a standing order just relating to idiocy?</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>244247</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I remind the Senate that senators are entitled to be heard in silence, and, Senator Ludlam, could you ignore injections.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LUDLAM</name>
    <name.id>I07</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>It is difficult when they are so infantile, but I will do my best. Proponents of this argument, which we heard during the Senate inquiry in 2009, missed the point that it is not a military decision to go to war; it is a political decision. The bill calls for the government of the day to make the political case as to why diplomatic efforts and multilateral institutions have failed. It calls on them to make the case to the Australian people as to why force is the only option.</para>
<para>I would argue that case had not been made to the Australian people in the instance of the invasion of Afghanistan, which former Prime Minister Howard signed Australia up to, sight unseen. He was in Washington on 9/11, and I can imagine the impact that must have had—to be in the United States when an atrocity like that is perpetrated not far from where you are staying. He committed to George Bush at that time: 'Whatever you need, we're there.' It was a blank cheque to invade Afghanistan and then to invade a country that had absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the extraordinary crime committed in New York and Washington on 11 September. He wrote a blank cheque, and that is what we are trying to stop here. We should make the political case, and then let the military leadership deal with the strategies and tactics once a democratic decision has been made to deploy.</para>
<para>Again, I would put to opponents of this bill: if it is such a disaster to have these debates in the public domain, how are all these other countries managing? How are they getting away with it? If you cannot persuade a majority of your own parliament that a deployment is in order and in the national interest, maybe there is something wrong with your case. I have heard this argument made a number of times. Labor senators have made it and government senators have made it. Why on earth would you want to expose a decision as serious as the decision to deploy into harm's way to the crossbench? Those arguments miss the point that for the crossbench votes to even be called into play, it must mean the opposition party is offside. If you cannot persuade a majority of your own parliament that a deployment is in the national interest, maybe there is something deeply wrong with your case. Maybe you should be forced to put it into the public domain so that the argument can be had.</para>
<para>I recognise that there are technical issues in this bill which have been debated over many years and are worthy of debate. And we are reintroducing this bill for debate this morning with the door wide open. Senator Carr, I do not know if you are planning on speaking. If you have suggestions, we are all ears. Senator O'Sullivan, if your side of politics has suggestions, proposals or amendments, we are all ears. We are interested in progressing the principle of this issue as the first step in renegotiating the defence relationship with a president who I submit to this chamber is an extremely dangerous individual—dangerous to the interests of his own electorate and dangerous to Australia.</para>
<para>I look forward to seeing how this debate unfolds. This is really only stage 1 for the Australian Greens. As I said, we are willing to discuss how this issue can be progressed. If not using the exact wording of this bill, how do we democratise the decision to place Australian service personnel into harm's way? I think it is one of the gravest and most serious considerations that could be put to a member of parliament. I do not think it is tenable for those individuals in this building to say that they are not competent, that they do not want that responsibility. I think that responsibility properly belongs in here so that these arguments can be heard in the light of day rather than made behind closed doors as we saw in the disastrous decision to invade Iraq, which has made the world a deeply unstable place.</para>
<para>We believe that, in the cause of the rule of law, Australia should take its place among those other democracies with whom we either are in formal alliances or at least consider kindred democracies so that we do not see a repeat of what happened in 2003.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:08</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'SULLIVAN</name>
    <name.id>247871</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I have actually been looking forward to the opportunity to make a contribution to the introduction of the Defence Legislation Amendment (Parliamentary Approval of Overseas Service) Bill 2015. I must say I do not often make favourable remarks about the Greens, but I will tell you what: you have got to give them credit for persistence. You really do have to give them credit for persistence.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Di Natale</name>
    <name.id>53369</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>And intelligence!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'SULLIVAN</name>
    <name.id>247871</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>No, I am afraid intelligence and persistence do not necessarily need to reside in the same body politic—but certainly for persistence.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Kim Carr</name>
    <name.id>AW5</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Just look at the National Party!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'SULLIVAN</name>
    <name.id>247871</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I will take that interjection. We in the National Party are very proud, too, of our persistence with certain ideology too. But let's look at this now. That contribution by Senator Ludlam was breathtaking. He demonstrated a complete ignorance of the principles of democratic society and the principles of representative democracy, which of course is the political system our nation and most free nations of the world are based on.</para>
<para>Senator Ludlam, whether he intended to or not, has just offended the majority of the people who live in the United States of America. He wants to argue democracy in this place. He wants to argue democratic decisions. It is only a matter of weeks ago that they went to the polls and by a majority—and quite a clear majority—elected the current President of the United States. From the very day—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Di Natale</name>
    <name.id>53369</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>That's just wrong.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'SULLIVAN</name>
    <name.id>247871</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I am not one who engages in these interjections, Mr Acting Deputy President. You should remind them that I am entitled to be heard in silence here. But, from that very day, the Greens party attacked the democratic decision of the United States of America, our great ally. Where would this nation be today if the United States had not joined us in Europe, had not joined us in the Pacific? Senator Ludlam, you would have delivered your speech today in a completely different language had they not been in our lives.</para>
<para>This goes to the heart of the problem we have with the Greens party and the introduction of this legislation that has failed in this place with a body of members of parliament who are no longer here. This is the 36th year that some attempt has been made to breach the Constitution of this nation to somehow create this environment that you want via this bill. It has failed on dozens of occasions in the majority vote of the democracy of the nation. It will fail again today, and you know that full well. It will fail because it is simply a bad idea.</para>
<para>If you have got the time to pay attention, let me give you some pointers about democracy. Here is what happens in a democracy. Political parties present themselves to the nation. They present their ideas, they present their policies, they present their initiatives, and the good people of the nation—in free nations—have a vote to elect the government. It is called representative democracy. 'We see you, we understand who you are and we are putting our faith in you for the next period of time'—in our case three years or thereabout—'to represent our interests. We trust you to represent our interests.'</para>
<para>As you know, the Greens of course are very unhappy that they never get to sit at the big people's table. Despite decades of endeavouring, they cannot cut through. In fact, the last time the voters of Australia were asked to consider whether they should represent them in this parliament, fewer than ever before voted for them. They are on the path to irrelevance and yet want to make the case that somehow they should be involved to influence the decisions of the parliament when it comes to matters of defence.</para>
<para>Let's have a look at their voting record. Let's let the Australian people judge whether they are even capable of making a rational decision about issues that come before this Senate. Before the parliament was prorogued, I had the library do a study. There were 378 votes that occurred in this place, and for all but one dozen of them they voted against the government of the day. That, of course, defies any logic of the Australian people to suggest that every single thing the popularly elected government under this democracy had done did not find favour with the Greens and was rejected. On those dozen occasions, six were procedural, one was when they accidentally stayed on this side of the chamber—I was in the chamber when it happened, and they did not hear the referee's whistle or did not move quickly enough—and the other five were matters of self-interest to the Greens.</para>
<para>You mocked me before when I talked about the connections of your party to the communist movement internationally. In fact, I quite like Senator Lee Rhiannon. To all the Greens, let me say this: I disagree violently with every single thing you and she have to say, but let me tell you that she is the only one amongst you who is a true and honest warrior. I disagree with every word she says, but she is the only one amongst you who is a true and honest warrior. It is well recorded publicly and otherwise about her connections through the KGB, her visits to Russia and still, today, the ideology that she reflects within your party. Let me read you a bit about the Left Renewal. This is as recently as 21 December.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>244247</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator O'Sullivan, resume your chair. Senator Ludlam, on a point of order?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Ludlam</name>
    <name.id>I07</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>To be honest, it should not fall to one of us to call a point of order when a senator of that side of the chamber impugns the reputation of one of our colleagues, implying ties to a foreign intelligence service. I ask that Senator O'Sullivan come back to earth, stick to reality, continue his speech and withdraw that remark.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>244247</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator O'Sullivan, I did not hear the remark, but I remind you about the normal rules of the debate and I ask you to address your remarks to the chair.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'SULLIVAN</name>
    <name.id>247871</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you very much. I will—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>244247</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Resume your seat, Senator O'Sullivan. Senator Ludlam?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Ludlam</name>
    <name.id>I07</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr Acting Deputy President, with respect, you may not have heard the remarks, but Hansard will have taken them down. I asked that they be stricken from the record, withdrawn by Senator O'Sullivan.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>244247</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator O'Sullivan, it would assist the chair if you would withdraw any remarks that may have been in the line of what Senator Ludlam is talking about, if you have—</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'SULLIVAN</name>
    <name.id>247871</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr Acting Deputy President, I do not want to make your position difficult, but there are no remarks that I have made that I am prepared to withdraw. These are matters on the public record of which Senator Rhiannon has had ample opportunity to resist; she has not. If I am now not entitled to speak of matters that have been well aired publicly over decades, then what am I here for? I do not want to make your position—</para>
<para class="italic">Senator Cameron interjecting—</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'SULLIVAN</name>
    <name.id>247871</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Let me finish. I do not want to make—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>244247</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator O'Sullivan, resume your seat. Senator McKim, on a point of order?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKim</name>
    <name.id>JKM</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I may be mistaken, but I understand that you have asked Senator O'Sullivan to withdraw and he has refused to do so. That is a reflection on your authority as chair. You ought to sustain the position you have taken and reiterate your instruction to Senator O'Sullivan.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>244247</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator O'Sullivan, before you make any comments, in the interest of ensuring that debate continues in the chamber, I ask you to reconsider your decision. I invite you to do that now. I also remind you that I did not hear the remark clearly at that time.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'SULLIVAN</name>
    <name.id>247871</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Might I perhaps offer a solution that colleagues may take: I would be more than happy for my reflections to be referred to the President of the Senate for him to consider them and come back here to provide a ruling to the chamber. But I do not want to put you in a difficult position, Mr Acting Deputy President. I have great respect for you and most importantly—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKim</name>
    <name.id>JKM</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>On a point of order—</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'SULLIVAN</name>
    <name.id>247871</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I am talking on a point of order. I have the call. Mr Acting Deputy President, I do not want to put you in a position—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>244247</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator O'Sullivan, just resume your chair for a second. Senator McKim, on a further point of order or the same point of order?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKim</name>
    <name.id>JKM</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>It is an addition, if you like, to the point of order. You have now asked Senator O'Sullivan twice to withdraw the comments. He is in direct defiance of the chair in refusing to do so.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>244247</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Fawcett?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Fawcett</name>
    <name.id>DYU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator O'Sullivan is referring to information that has been on the public record. I refer you to an <inline font-style="italic">Australian</inline> article in January 2012. Many of these issues are been on the public record for some time.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>244247</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Having considered the matter, the matter is now to be settled on the basis that Senator O'Sullivan has invited the President to consider this matter. The President may well consider this issue and, if he determines that it is necessary to come back to the chamber on his decision in that respect, he will do so. In the interests of continuing the debate, I think it is important that we continue. That resolves that point of order and I invite you now, Senator O'Sullivan, to continue your remarks in relation to the Defence Legislation Amendment (Parliamentary Approval of Overseas Service) Bill 2015.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'SULLIVAN</name>
    <name.id>247871</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Mr Acting Deputy President. Let me just apologise to you personally: I did not mean to put you in this position and I will endeavour to be very careful with my language in the future. This critically goes to the heart of the debate in relation to this bill. Let me not talk about Senator Rhiannon, but let us for one moment assume that there is a senator in this place who is directly connected with a foreign power, a foreign power whose interests are not in the interests of—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>244247</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator O'Sullivan, resume your seat. Senator McKim?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKim</name>
    <name.id>JKM</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>This is an ongoing defiance of your ruling, Mr Acting Deputy President.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>244247</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator McKim, I have dealt with that issue. There is no further point of order. Resume your seat.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'SULLIVAN</name>
    <name.id>247871</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>It goes to the very heart of who would be involved in this. One thing Senator Ludlam and I—through you, Mr Acting Deputy President—agree about is the significance of any decision that would involve sending any of our young men and women into harm's way anywhere in the world. Those decisions must be taken with the greatest possible care, by decent men and women who are selected by this nation to represent them by majority in this parliament. For a time, that could well be members of the Australian Labor Party. Do I contest that? Do I think that only the conservative coalition side of politics has the intellectual grunt, has the grasp on humanity to make decisions about our involvement in overseas conflicts? No, I do not. And I say to you, Senator Ludlam—through you, Mr Acting Deputy President—on the back of a hope that this never happens: if the Greens were, in the year 2098, when the sun flares out for the last time, given power over this nation, then I would respect the fact that you as an executive would make a decision on when and where and in what circumstances this country might engage in a military conflict.</para>
<para>I absolutely hate military action anywhere in the world. A figure that you might like to hear is that the entire humanitarian budget each year is only two per cent of the entire military budget each year. So, every day we spend US$1.9 billion on military conflict around the world. In the time I have been up here speaking, $100 million has been spent for some person to kill another. I find it abhorrent. But I also am a realist, and I know that there are occasions when nations get into conflict. They might call upon their allies, and we may have to intervene in the interests of trying to create as peaceful an environment as possible or to protect the minorities around the world.</para>
<para>I was in this place when I heard the very forceful argument of the Greens against us putting troops into Syria. We have a genocide occurring with the Christian minority in Syria. They were killing hundreds and hundreds of men, women and children every day, and some of them in the most obnoxious ways, putting people in cages—children—and lowering them into waters so they drowned. And I heard the colleagues of the Greens here resist any thought that we might join a military action in Syria to try to save and preserve the lives of these minorities who are being affected. Now, we did, and there has been success. In fact, thousands of these refugees, these Christian Syrians, are coming to our nation today—people who would not be alive if it had not been for the intervention of our nation and our allies in relation to their circumstances.</para>
<para>We have seen the genocide of Saddam Hussein on his neighbours—tens of thousands of them gassed—and the Greens resist any thought, even retrospectively. This is what makes it so offensive. These people want to join me and the properly elected government and their executive to make decisions on whether we should or should not, and their contributions are so predictable, and they reconfirm it retrospectively. So, they would have had us not go into Iraq and leave Saddam Hussein to continue on the annihilation of a whole race of people.</para>
<para>None of these interventions go well. You cannot go in and knock off the Saddams of the world and all their colonels and lieutenants, because in doing so you take away the superstructure—albeit a corrupt society, but it disappears. All their levels of government disappear. Their local government disappears. There is no-one to make decisions about the utilities or those sorts of things that you and I take for granted in this country. But when you consider that against doing nothing, then of course the decision, in my mind, becomes very clear.</para>
<para>What we have at the heart of this is a style of government in this country whereby people select members of the lower house, the House of Representatives. They are elected by a popular majority, in a democratic way, in a democratic system that has been tested for hundreds of years. In the words of I think it was Churchill, talking about democracy, it is the worst form of government—except for all the others. And I think that is as powerful a statement today as it has ever been.</para>
<para>You talk about the Prime Minister—our Prime Minister—reacting to a tweet and sending the troops into the Middle East on the back of a tweet. I have to ask you: do you think the Australian people hear that and think that is what happens? That is a complete and absolute nonsense, and it shows your ignorance of how executive government operates.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>244247</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator O'Sullivan, resume your seat. Senator Ludlam, a point of order?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Ludlam</name>
    <name.id>I07</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr Acting Deputy President, I just ask that you direct the senator to direct his hyperventilation through you.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>244247</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Quite right. Senator O'Sullivan, I remind you that all your remarks should be addressed to the chair.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'SULLIVAN</name>
    <name.id>247871</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, but I have to tell you: you know when you are on the money—and I said it yesterday—when the opponents to what you have to say continue to interject in their effort to suppress the flow of your debate, your contribution to the debate. But—through you, Mr Acting Deputy President—Senator Ludlam is, honestly, an intellectual vacuum when it comes to the issue of the operation of executive government in Australia. Executive government is made of this whole cabinet of very decent men and women, some of them—most of them—great leaders from their own communities. There are 225 members of parliament in this place, and they are selected on the basis of the collective belief that they are the finest minds, they are the best people to make a contribution to the nation. So, this business that somehow the Prime Minister of the day rolls over in bed of a morning, at 3 am—he might be like me and have to get up every half an hour during the night—and checks his tweets and finds out that a leader of a foreign nation has tweeted something so he picks the phone up to the head of Defence and deploys all our troops to the Middle East or some other theatre of war—what a complete nonsense. This is a complete nonsense.</para>
<para>These are the people who would have us bring them to the table to be involved in decisions of when this nation may go into conflict. Additionally—and I am going to try to do this without using the word 'communism' from top to bottom—let me read to you some of the current thoughts of the Australian Greens, who are advocating this bill. These are thoughts that were published on 21 December 2016. There are enough Greens here to stand up each time I read an element of this and tell me that it is not so. This is the Greens policy called Left Renewal. The Left Renewal movement is the power within the Greens now. It opens with:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That our struggle for social justice brings us into irreconcilable conflict with the capitalist mode of production, and all other forms of class society.</para></quote>
<para>You either have capitalism, socialism or the big C. I am not going to say the word, for fear of an interjection. This is a party whose ideology now supports non-capitalist forms of government. Capitalist government covers all of the UK, most of Europe and the United States. They want a vote to determine whether we interfere in a conflict. So if there is a socialist invasion—I am going to have to say it—or a communist invasion of a near neighbour, the Greens will not support intervention for peace purposes, because that nation that is invading their capitalist neighbours fits neatly in their ideology.</para>
<para>They also talk about:</para>
<quote><para class="block">…'good people' gaining control of these authoritarian and exploitative power structures.</para></quote>
<para>They are talking about what is called a participatory form of democracy. That is what this document is, this manifesto. They say every Australian should have a say in this. Let's just run this around for a minute. Our national security is under immediate threat, we have had a Pearl Harbor event, and they want us over the next—if working with them is any experience—two years to come into this place and debate every single aspect of the decision. They do not want to just make a contribution; they want to go back to every single Australian—and God forbid they want to go back to their mob and get their input—as to whether we should go over there and protect our national interest security-wise or take some rose petals and fling them in the air in front of advancing troops. This would go on forever and ever if the parliament were involved in having to make a decision.</para>
<para>We have good men and women—be they Labor, be they the coalition or, perhaps in a hundred years' time when the world has come to an end, the Australian Greens—in there making considered decisions about our intervention in military events. It has worked for us. There is not a military event—and I look back retrospectively. I hate war. I hate conflict. As I look back, there have been one or two that perhaps with more information we might not have engaged in as we did, but in the large part—</para>
<para class="italic">Senator Rhiannon interjecting—</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'SULLIVAN</name>
    <name.id>247871</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>No, no—you would be talking in Japanese today if you had been in charge in the mid-forties. You would have a housekeeper who was a Papua New Guinean who had been displaced. You people are outrageous—through you, Madam Deputy President, before I get into trouble. I say this: Australians, one and all, ought to think about what is being attempted here. You have the absolute socialist Left, with great communist links, who want to get a seat at the table to make decisions about where, when and on what terms we engage in military practice. This idea has been rejected by hundreds and hundreds of politicians representing the interests of their constituencies between—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>00AOP</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator O'Sullivan, please resume your seat.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Ludlam</name>
    <name.id>I07</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Madam Deputy President. A dispute occurred before you took the chair, about 10 minutes ago during Senator O'Sullivan's contribution where he—under standing order 193(3), rules of debate—impugned the motives of an Australian Greens senator and, by association, all of us. I ask, through you, Madam Deputy President, when the President considers the ruling, to take the points of order that Senator McKim and I raised a short while ago in the context of the contribution that followed. It has been implied that the Australian Greens by direct association are some sort of treasonous communist imposition with allegiance to a foreign power. These are the sorts of arguments that Senator O'Sullivan is putting forward. I ask the President, through you, Madam Deputy President, to consider the context of this contribution.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>00AOP</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Ludlam, the point of order has been understood, and the President will look at the speech in its entirety. I remind senators that the President will only come back to the chamber if he feels that he should.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'SULLIVAN</name>
    <name.id>247871</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Sadly, my time has expired.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:35</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak on Defence Legislation Amendment (Parliamentary Approval of Overseas Service) Bill 2015, and I would like to welcome Senator Ludlam back to the Senate. I know he has had some time off. I used to work very cooperatively with Senator Ludlam during the time that the Labor Party was in government on some very key pieces of legislation, including some TV recycling legislation which was one of the few examples of all of the parties getting together to work on a very important piece of legislation which continues to work very well in recycling TVs and computers even to this present point in time. Welcome back, Senator Ludlam.</para>
<para>Unfortunately, we cannot support your legislation today. I would like to go into the reasons for that. Before I do, I might take up a point that Senator O'Sullivan made about World War II. I think it is worthwhile pointing that, as he said, the Greens were not in government, but Labor was in government. A great wartime leader from your home state, Deputy President, was in charge: Prime Minister Curtin. Australia was in very safe hands under his very wise guidance during the period of the war, which, of course, we successfully worked through.</para>
<para>We cannot support this legislation. It aims to ensure that Defence Force personnel are not sent overseas to engage in warlike activities, without the approval of both houses of parliament. The existing practice in Australia is that any decision to deploy members of the ADF beyond Australian territorial limits is at the sole prerogative of the executive of the Commonwealth. That has been the long-standing practice, and the Labor Party continues to support that practice. We certainly did so in government. It is a long-standing constitutional practice and the Labor Party does not support any proposals to change that practice, and in particular does not support this proposed legislation.</para>
<para>I will go through some of the background to this and deal with some of the times that this has been debated in the past. The first point to make is that, as we did in government, have always done government and continue to do an opposition, we fully support ADF personnel who are currently involved in operations at various places around the world. I suppose it is fair to say that it is becoming a more unstable world, and some people speculate that it will become even more unstable into the future. But we have men and women who are doing great work on behalf of this country and I know that they are undertaking their various roles with terrific professionalism. I also take this opportunity to state that Labor fully supports the principle that it is the role of the parliament to debate issues of concern and to act as a focal point for discussions that take place in the Australian community. That role is particularly important when we are discussing issues like the deployment of Australian Defence Force personnel. Labor has consistently supported open debate on these issues. In 2015, when the Labor Party announced its support for the extension of Operation OKRA into Syrian air space, we also called on the government to outline to parliament its long-term strategy for the defence of Iraq and to follow up with appropriate parliamentary discussions of that strategy.</para>
<para>Ministers for defence should, of course, provide the parliament with regular and detailed ministerial statements regarding overseas operations and deployments, as we certainly did in our time in government. That is what the Australian community expects in this place. They expect to have a discussion in the parliament on important issues and to allow all points of view to be expressed and debated, as they should be. But it is imperative that in this debate we not confuse the requirements of parliamentary approval for the deployment of ADF personnel.</para>
<para>Labor believes that supporting this bill would risk serious unintended consequences. The government of the day must always retain the necessary flexibility to allow it to respond quickly and efficiently to threats to Australia's national security. To require a vote of parliament or a proclamation from the Governor-General, prior to deploying ADF personnel and assets, would unnecessarily increase the risk to the operation and to the personnel involved. As has been noted in previous debates on this issue, the government of the day also has access to classified information that this parliament does not have access to, and, given the nature of that information, cannot have access to. Australia's defence and national security agencies provide information to the government that must remain classified for a whole range of reasons, including the safety and security of the military personnel involved.</para>
<para>I would also like to reiterate our concerns, and in particular the concerns expressed by former senator and defence minister John Faulkner, in 2011, regarding how defence operations that may be clandestine in nature and may be considered preparatory deployments would be accommodated within such an arrangement as is being proposed by Senator Ludlam. That is particularly where the definition of 'warlike' and 'non-warlike' military service can be clear, and perhaps ambiguous at the outset.</para>
<para>Bills very similar to this one have been introduced into the parliament on a number of occasions in recent years. The first of those was the Defence Amendment Bill 1985, which the Democrats introduced. That bill did not pass this parliament. Since then the Democrats and the Greens between them have introduced similar pieces of legislation to the Senate—in 2003, twice in 2008, and again in 2010. The Greens also introduced a bill into this house in 2010. The parliament gave due consideration to all of those pieces of legislation and none of them were passed.</para>
<para>Labor supports a robust debate on this issue, but we do not support the substance or the intent of this legislation. We want to have a robust debate, but at the end of the day we believe that the current constitutional practice is appropriate and we will continue to support that practice. For that reason we do not support this bill.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:45</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ROBERTS</name>
    <name.id>266524</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>As a servant to the people of Queensland and Australia, I rise to oppose the Defence Legislation Amendment (Parliamentary Approval of Overseas Service) Bill 2015 as it is proposed right now by the Greens. Instead, I will be proposing some amendments. I need to start by saying that the government, as I see it, has three core responsibilities: to protect life, to protect property and to protect freedom. The Greens, sadly, are weak on border protection, yet I must be very clear that I agree with the intent of this motion. This bill in its current form seeks to prevent the deployment of Australian Defence Force personnel for warlike operations without the approval of both houses of parliament. This bill would, if passed, tie the hands of any government from directing the use of military force to defend Australia's strategic interests or to fulfil our obligations to our principal allies and to our citizens.</para>
<para>The movers of this bill in its current form appear to totally misunderstand the structure and the operation of the Westminster system of parliamentary government, in which the legislator legislates but the government governs. In my experience, the Greens have bypassed our Constitution often in the past, and this also, sadly, in its current form, bypasses the Constitution and undermines it. The government of Australia is not a student union in which every action is compelled to be subject to a drawn-out, internecine and paralysing debate and in which no action is always better than an action with which one or another of the squabbling factions disagrees. Accountability requires clear structures of responsibility. It requires clear decisions, not games and posturing and not window-dressing.</para>
<para>If we want this country to be capable of responding effectively to international military threats, then the government must be able to act decisively and, when necessary, clandestinely to meet these threats and not have its hands tied. That is the world in which we live. I do respect the Greens and agree with the Greens' need for greater accountability on this issue though. Although the underlying premise of this bill is totally impractical and naive in the extreme, the principle that members of parliament and senators, who collectively represent all the citizens of this wonderful country, should be aware of the circumstances under which warlike operations are authorised by the government of the day is a very reasonable proposal. When we listen to our constituents, the people are upset with decisions like going to Iraq and going to Vietnam—automatically just following—without consultation. I can recall watching Alexander Downer, after he retired from federal parliament, stating that, when the 9/11 event occurred in New York in 2001, John Howard returned, spoke to the cabinet and said, 'We are going to Iraq.' That was it. That is not good enough. The public want discussion of these things. They want to be consulted; they want to know their views are understood.</para>
<para>To this end, Pauline Hanson's One Nation party will propose three amendments which seek to achieve this latter reasonable aim of accountability without hamstringing the government from discharging its obligations to use military force to protect us. The first amendment that I will move when debate resumes calls for the government to provide confidential briefings to members and senators in the event of authorising any deployment. The virtues of this amendment largely speak for themselves. The second of our proposed amendments will remove the central requirement that the authority of the parliament is required for any military action, which, as previously stated, we do not support, as we believe this would compromise Australia's ability to defend itself. The third amendment that we would propose seeks to require that, three months after authorising the use of military force, the government is required to have a debate in parliament on the merits of the military action—to have a review.</para>
<para>Firstly, taken collectively, these three amendments acknowledge the right of the government of the day to engage the Australian defence forces in warlike operations as it sees fit on behalf of the people of Australia. Secondly, they also make clear its obligations not to seek approval but to keep the larger legislature informed of the circumstances surrounding any such deployment and the requirements for it. Thirdly, they also seek to ensure that the government is subsequently accountable to the broader legislature for its decisions and allows all members and senators a say in the continuation of any such military action.</para>
<para>Pauline Hanson's One Nation party is concerned about our young men and women who are sent to defend our country. We have been listening to people who have returned from overseas action in a very sad state. As one of them said to me, our country 'sends them, bends them, but doesn't mend them'. I have three former Defence staff in my team. We are aware of the threats that these people face, and we understand, as they do, that security must dominate. These young men and women deserve complete respect and our accountability before we send them overseas. In the event that our proposed amendments are defeated, we will oppose the bill. I move the second reading amendment standing in my name:</para>
<quote><para class="block">At the end of the motion, add:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">", but the Senate acknowledges the executive's responsibility to deploy forces at short notice and calls on the Government to be open and accountable to all parliamentary representatives prior to making such a decision.".</para></quote>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>00AOP</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The time for this debate has expired.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>STATEMENTS</title>
        <page.no>23</page.no>
        <type>STATEMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Asylum Seekers</title>
          <page.no>23</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:52</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKIM</name>
    <name.id>JKM</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a two-minute statement in regards to the forced deportations of detainees on Manus Island that are currently underway.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>00AOP</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Leave is granted.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKIM</name>
    <name.id>JKM</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>At five o'clock this morning, under the cover of darkness on Manus Island at the Lombrum detention centre, Papua New Guinea police and private security guards stormed the centre and began the forced deportation that was the subject of my questions to Senator Brandis yesterday. In doing so, they have trashed the human rights of detainees, who remain Australia's moral and legal responsibility in the context of international law. We have seen at least one detainee frogmarched out of the detention centre and allegedly private guards threatened other detainees that they would be back to take them out later.</para>
<para>This is a situation that has inflamed tensions which already were at very high levels. I want to say very clearly that the Australian government needs to intervene here with the Papua New Guinea government, ensure that detainees have all opportunity to exhaust legal remedies before they are forcibly deported from Papua New Guinea and ensure that actions taken by Papua New Guinea police and private security guards do not, as we have heard this morning, unnecessarily inflame tensions. We do not want to see violence in these centres. But I do have to say that tensions are running very hot in the Lombrum centre and I urge the Attorney-General to uphold the law and use all available opportunities to make sure that things are done properly and in accordance with international law.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:54</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a two-minute statement.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>00AOP</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Leave is granted.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>What Senator McKim failed to inform the Senate was that the people who were the subject of this action today are not refugees. They are not refugees. He chose his words carefully by describing them as 'detainees'. I am advised that every single individual the subject of these removal proceedings is a person whose claim to refugee status has been processed and rejected. It is quite wrong, therefore, for Senator McKim to claim as he does that rights are being violated. When a person claims to be a refugee and then their claim to refugee status is rejected, the country to which they have made that claim has every right in international law to return them to their country of origin in accordance with its own domestic laws. That is what the New Guinean authorities are doing.</para>
<para>When we speak of Manus Island, we should remember two things. The Manus Island detention centre was created by the government of New Guinea as a result of an agreement entered into between that government and the government of Mr Kevin Rudd. The other thing is that every person in the Manus Island detention centre, whether they have been assessed to be a refugee or, as in this case, their refugee claim has been refused, was put there by the Labor Party. The second thing we should remember is that under this government we have attempted to empty those centres, most recently by entering into an agreement with the administration of the United States of America. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>NOTICES</title>
        <page.no>24</page.no>
        <type>NOTICES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Withdrawal</title>
          <page.no>24</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:53</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WILLIAMS</name>
    <name.id>I0V</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Pursuant to notice given on 8 February, 2017, I withdraw: business of the Senate notice of motions No. 1, 2 and 3 standing in my name for today proposing the disallowance of three instrument made under the Migration Act 1958; business of the Senate notice of motion No. 1 standing in my name for 15 February, 2017, proposing the disallowance of the Aboriginal Land Grant (Jervis Bay Territory) By-Laws 2016; and business of the Senate notice of motion No. 4 standing in my name for 30 March, 2017, proposing the disallowance of the private health insurance amendment rules for 2016.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Presentation</title>
          <page.no>24</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>25</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Selection of Bills Committee</title>
          <page.no>25</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Report</title>
            <page.no>25</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:57</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BUSHBY</name>
    <name.id>HLL</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I present the first report of 2017 of the Selection of Bills Committee. I seek leave to have the report incorporated in <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline>.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">The report read as follows—</inline></para>
<quote><para class="block">SELECTION OF BILLS COMMITTEE</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Report no. 1 of 2017</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">1. The committee met in private session on Wednesday, 8 February 2017 at 7.32 pm.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">2. The committee resolved to recommend—That—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) the provisions of the Airports Amendment Bill 2016 be referred immediately to the Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport Legislation Committee for inquiry and report by 28 March 2017 (see appendix 1 for a statement of reasons for referral);</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) the provisions of the Building and Construction Industry (Improving Productivity) Amendment Bill 2017 be referred immediately to the Education and Employment Legislation Committee for inquiry and report by 15 February 2017 (see appendix 2 and 3 for a statement of reasons for referral);</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) the provisions of the Safety, Rehabilitation and Compensation Legislation Amendment (Defence Force) Bill 2016 be referred immediately to the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Legislation Committee for inquiry and report by 20 March 2017 (see appendix 4 for a statement of reasons for referral); and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(d) the provisions of the Therapeutic Goods Amendment (2016 Measures No. 1) Bill 2016 be referred immediately to the Community Affairs Legislation Committee for inquiry and report by 27 March 2017 (see appendix 5 and 6 for a statement of reasons for referral).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">3. The committee resolved to recommend—That the following bills not be referred to committees:</para></quote>
<list>Agriculture and Water Resources Legislation Amendment Bill 2016</list>
<quote><para class="block">Excise Levies Legislation Amendment (Honey) Bill 2016</para></quote>
<list>Customs and Other Legislation Amendment Bill 2016</list>
<list>Independent Parliamentary Expenses Authority Bill 2017</list>
<quote><para class="block">Independent Parliamentary Expenses Authority (Consequential Amendments) Bill 2017</para></quote>
<list>National Integrity Commission Bill 2013</list>
<list>Parliamentary Entitlements Legislation Amendment Bill 2017</list>
<list>Superannuation Amendment (PSSAP Membership) Bill 2016</list>
<list>Treasury Laws Amendment (Bourke Street Fund) Bill 2017.</list>
<quote><para class="block">The committee recommends accordingly.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">4. The committee deferred consideration of the following bills to its next meeting:</para></quote>
<list>Australian Human Rights Commission Amendment (Preliminary Assessment Process) Bill 2017</list>
<list>Criminal Code Amendment (Prohibition of Full Face Coverings in Public Places) Bill 2017</list>
<list>Customs Tariff Amendment Bill 2016</list>
<list>End Cruel Cosmetics Bill 2014</list>
<list>Enhancing Online Safety for Children Amendment Bill 2017</list>
<list>Farm Household Support Amendment Bill 2017</list>
<list>Fisheries Legislation Amendment (Representation) Bill 2017</list>
<list>Health Insurance Amendment (National Rural Health Commissioner) Bill 2017</list>
<list>National Health Amendment (Pharmaceutical Benefits) Bill 2016</list>
<list>Parliamentary Expenses Amendment (Transparency and Accountability) Bill 2015</list>
<list>Racial Discrimination Amendment Bill 2016</list>
<list>Transport Security Legislation Amendment Bill 2016</list>
<list>Treasury Laws Amendment (2016 Measures No. 1) Bill 2016</list>
<list>Treasury Laws Amendment (Combating Multinational Tax Avoidance) Bill 2017</list>
<quote><para class="block">Diverted Profits Tax Bill 2017.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The committee recommends accordingly.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">5. The committee considered the following bill but was unable to reach agreement:</para></quote>
<list>Social Services Legislation Amendment (Omnibus Savings and Child Care Reform) Bill 2017.</list>
<quote><para class="block">(David Bushby)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Chair</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">9 February 2017</para></quote>
<para>APPENDIX 1</para>
<quote><para class="block">Proposal to refer a bill to a committee:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Name of bill:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Airports Legislation Amendment Bill 2016</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Reasons for referral/principal issues for consideration:</para></quote>
<list>The amendments make changes to a complex system planning framework</list>
<list>Airport planning is a rare area where the Federal Government is the lead consent authority. This is normally a State area.</list>
<list>There are likely to be areas of concern around shifting settings for obtaining consent to what can be major development.</list>
<list>Airport planning issues are of significant interest to communities near airports</list>
<quote><para class="block">Possible submissions or evidence from:</para></quote>
<list>Department of Infrastructure and Regional Development</list>
<list>States and Territories</list>
<list>Local Government</list>
<list>Community organisations</list>
<list>Residents near airports</list>
<list>Airports</list>
<list>Airlines</list>
<list>Development interests</list>
<quote><para class="block">Committee to which bill is to be referred:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Senate Rural & Regional Affairs Legislation Committee.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Possible hearing date(s):</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">To be determined by the Committee.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Possible reporting date:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Tuesday, 28 March 2017</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Senator Anne Urquhart</para></quote>
<para>APPENDIX 2</para>
<quote><para class="block">Proposal to refer a bill to a committee:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Name of bill:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Expo Building and Construction (Improving Productivity) Amendment Bill 2017</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Reasons for referral/principal issues for consideration:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill requires investigation on the consequences of a shorter proposed transition period.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Possible submissions or evidence from:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Previous submitters</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Committee to which bill is to be referred:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Education and Employment Legislation Committee.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Possible hearing date(s):</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">13 February 2017</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Possible reporting date:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">15 February 2017</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Senator Skye Kakoschke-Moore</para></quote>
<para>APPENDIX 3</para>
<quote><para class="block">Proposal to refer a bill to a committee:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Name of bill:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Building and Construction Industry (Improving Productivity) Amendment Bill 2017</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Reasons for referral/principal issues for consideration:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Possible submissions or evidence from:</para></quote>
<list>Unions and industry groups</list>
<list>CFMEU</list>
<list>ETU Vic</list>
<list>ACTU</list>
<quote><para class="block">Committee to which bill is to be referred:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Education and Employment Legislation Committee</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Possible hearing date(s):</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Possible reporting date:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">27 February 2017</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Senator Rachel Siewert</para></quote>
<para>APPENDIX 4</para>
<quote><para class="block">Proposal to refer a bill to a committee:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Name of bill:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Safety, Rehabilitation and Compensation Legislation Amendment (Defence Force) Bill 2016</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Reasons for referral/principal issues for consideration:</para></quote>
<list>Concerns over whether Bill will not inadvertently disadvantage defence force members.</list>
<quote><para class="block">Possible submissions or evidence from:</para></quote>
<list>DVA</list>
<list>Vietnam Vets Association</list>
<quote><para class="block">Committee to which bill is to be referred:</para></quote>
<para>Senate Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade</para>
<quote><para class="block">Possible hearing date(s):</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Week beginning 20 February 2017.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Possible reporting date:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">20 March 2017</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Senator Skye Kakoschke-Moore</para></quote>
<para>APPENDIX 5</para>
<quote><para class="block">Proposal to refer a bill to a committee:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Name of bill:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Therapeutic Goods Amendment (2016 Measures No. 1) Bill 2016</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Reasons for referral/principal issues for consideration:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This bill enables changes to a complex regulatory system. The changes will mostly be made via regulations that have not been drafted, necessitating further scrutiny of the bill and the Government's implementation planning. Once made these changes would be difficult to unwind, heightening the bar for passage</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Possible submissions or evidence from:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Relevant Government agencies (e.g. TGA); stakeholders including industry and consumer groups; health and regulatory experts</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Committee to which bill is to be referred:</para></quote>
<para>Senate Community Affairs Legislation Committee.</para>
<quote><para class="block">Possible hearing date(s):</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">To be determined by the Committee.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Possible reporting date:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">27 March 2017</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Senator Anne Urquhart</para></quote>
<para>APPENDIX 6</para>
<quote><para class="block">Proposal to refer a bill to a committee:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Name of bill:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Therapeutic Goods Amendment (2016 Measures No. 1) Bill 2016</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Reasons for referral/principal issues for consideration:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Concerns about process proposed in the Bill</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Possible submissions or evidence from:</para></quote>
<list>TGA</list>
<list>AMA</list>
<quote><para class="block">Committee to which bill is to be referred:</para></quote>
<para>Senate Community Affairs Legislation Committee.</para>
<quote><para class="block">Possible hearing date(s):</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Week commencing 6 March 2017.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Possible reporting date:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">23 March 2017</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Senator Skye Kakoschke-Moore</para></quote>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BUSHBY</name>
    <name.id>HLL</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the report be adopted.</para></quote>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:58</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">At the end of the motion, add, "but,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1)   in respect of the Social Services Legislation Amendment (Omnibus Savings and Child Care Reform) Bill 2017 the provisions of the bill be referred immediately to Community Affairs Legislation Committee for inquiry and report by 20 March 2017; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2)   in respect of the provisions of the Building and Construction Industry (Improving Productivity) Amendment Bill 2017, the Education and Employment Legislation Committee report by 27 March 2017."</para></quote>
<para>I also foreshadow that I will ask that the question on the two referrals as part of that amendment be put separately. The amendment I have moved seeks to refer two important pieces of legislation to committee inquiries. The first is the government's recently introduced omnibus bill. We are seeking a short inquiry to look at that. There are very significant matters to be explored as part of that bill. Some of them have been looked at in other inquiries, but there have been further changes to family tax benefits that will impact on a million families around Australia. There have been further changes and cuts to the paid parental leave scheme which, again, will impact around 70,000 new mums negatively. It includes the scrapping of the energy supplement, again affecting pensioners, people with a disability and Newstart recipients. There are cuts to payments to young people between the ages of 20 and 24 by pushing them onto the youth allowance, scrapping the pensioner education supplement and education entry payment, and cutting the pension to migrant pensioners who spend more than six weeks overseas.</para>
<para>Importantly, we need to understand the combined effect on families from some of the revised changes that the government has introduced in this bill. They are significant changes. They are affecting vulnerable and low-income households. It is only right that the Senate, performing its job as the chamber of scrutiny, is allowed access to departmental officials through a committee inquiry process to explore the combined impact of these measures prior to debate in this chamber, which I understand is being sought during the March setting. So I urge other senators to consider supporting that. It is still a very compressed time frame, when you are looking at the savings that are being supported by the omnibus bill—around $8 billion in savings. These are significant changes to the way people are receiving income support that they have made plans around. It is only right that the Senate, prior to debate, has full understanding and access to departmental officials to question them on how these changes are going to impact on these households.</para>
<para>In terms of the second part of my amendment, again this is to refer to committees so that we can understand the agreement that has been reached over summer by the government with members of the crossbench. Again, this is a highly contentious piece of legislation. There were many hours of debate late last year. My understanding, in my discussions with people who work in this industry, is that they have put time and effort into understanding the legislation that was passed in December and how that was going to impact on their businesses and agreements that they have in place with their workers. Now they are being told that this is changing again. I have certainly received quite a bit of feedback that these further changes will cause chaos in the building and construction industry and that it will impact on things like apprentice numbers at a time when we are already seeing low apprentice numbers and workforce shortages in certain areas. So again I would urge senators to consider that. It is a reasonable time frame. It is not a length inquiry. It is only right that we are fully briefed, because we have certainly not been briefed over the summer about the changes that have been negotiated. We would like a full understanding of them prior to debate in this chamber.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:02</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank the Manager of Opposition Business for revising her amendment to bring forward the date for reporting on the omnibus savings and child care reform bill. That will enable early consideration of that legislation by this chamber. I advise Senator Gallagher that we will part ways on the second amendment that she has proposed in relation to the ABCC.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:03</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DI NATALE</name>
    <name.id>53369</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I would like to say a few words about this omnibus bill. This has become a familiar tactic. It is one that has been adopted from the USA. It is one that I suspect we will continue to see in this place. This bill combines a whole range of unrelated measures, usually quite nasty things that the government does not want to see any scrutiny or debate over. It rolls them into a bill with many, many schedules. It calls it an omnibus bill. People do not know what that means. It is hard to understand it until you get into the details, but what you can be sure of is that in a bill like this there will be cuts to essential services and supports for ordinary people that the government is trying to hide.</para>
<para>For this tactic to succeed they obviously have to be sure that they have people in the chamber whose support they have. I have to say it is very disappointing to see my colleague Senator Xenophon and, indeed, the One Nation party helping the government pursue an agenda of cutting support for ordinary people and ensuring that it is rolled into an all-encompassing bill with so many schedules that it will not get the scrutiny it deserves.</para>
<para>The reason it is so critical that the Senate does its job in this chamber and that we have the opportunity to scrutinise this legislation is that there are so many hidden nasties in this bill. We are only starting to become familiar with them. For young people who need access to income support, who cannot find a job, it forces them to wait for a month before they are able to access that support. That is absolutely remarkable. These are the Tony Abbott measures of the 2014 budget, those zombie measures, coming back to life. It is only through the scrutiny of the Senate committee process, through the peak bodies who understand the details of the individual schedules, through the experts and stakeholders, that you get to understand exactly how far-reaching this legislation is. It is really a betrayal of well-worn and well-established democratic principles. If you want to slash income support for young people, have the guts to stand up and say that is what you are doing. If you want to remove support for ordinary families, stand up and say that is what you are doing. Do not roll it all up into this bill, an omnibus bill with a boring name but really, really nasty.</para>
<para>The truth is that this bill, in its design, is intended to disguise its intended purpose. This government does not want the parliament to know what is going on, does not want ordinary people to know what is going on and does not want the scrutiny of a media that moves from issue to issue with the attention span of a goldfish. It certainly does not want the public to know what is going on. It was only in the latest Senate estimates that we found out that the government has not even told those 1.2 million families that they will lose their family benefit supplements in July. The department said it would let them know in May. So it is an attack on people who are doing it tough.</para>
<para>I do not expect really anything from One Nation on this. They purport to represent battlers, and here they are—young people are being shafted and we have the removal of supports for family tax benefit payments. It is going to slash payments for people under 25 by $90 a fortnight. Those people under 25 will not get access to Newstart now; they will have to go on to youth allowance, a payment which is $45 per week less. Of course, there are concerns here that we also have the clean energy supplement rolled into this piece of legislation. So, as I said, One Nation, the party that represents battlers, again, selling them out and demonstrating that their only relevance in this place is to turn Australian against Australian.</para>
<para>Again, I am disappointed in Senator Xenophon that he would engage in negotiations with the government that would support some of these changes. But, be very clear—</para>
<para class="italic">Senator Leyonhjelm interjecting—</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DI NATALE</name>
    <name.id>53369</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>No, no. I am not disappointed in you, Senator Leyonhjelm, because you never fail to disappoint! You are nothing other than consistent. What I would say is: we need to have this legislation given the scrutiny it deserves. That is why the Greens will be doing that through an extended Senate committee process. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:08</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator XENOPHON</name>
    <name.id>8IV</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Can I indicate that Senator Di Natale has, unfortunately, either misunderstood or misrepresented my position and that of my colleagues both here and in the House of Representatives. We are still in negotiation with the government. We have serious concerns about a number of these measures. We believe in having an appropriate inquiry to thoroughly look at these measures, and the interaction between them ought to be undertaken. We have no concluded position. We are still talking to the government. But, also, key stakeholders are very concerned about these measures. Respectively to Di Natale, I think he may well have jumped the gun in terms of what he says our position will be. We think a Senate inquiry in respect of the omnibus bill is most appropriate. And it ought to be a thorough inquiry between now and 20 March.</para>
<para>In relation to the ABCC legislation, this relates to an important amendment as to one specific part of the bill. That ought to go to committee. But to have a full-blown four- or five-week inquiry when, in fact, there are two or three discrete issues that need to be dealt with, I believe it can be dealt with with a relatively short hearing and a short reporting date because these matters have previously been canvassed in the context of the ABCC legislation that has been dealt with. Of course, I do have some concerns about some aspects of this bill that, I believe, ought to be ventilated in the context of a Senate inquiry.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:10</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SIEWERT</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Just to make the Greens' position clear: we will be supporting this motion, understanding that each clause will be put separately. In terms of the ABCC, we referred the ABCC bill amendments to committee through the selection of bills process. As everybody in the chamber is aware, there could not be agreement on the date. We, in fact, wanted it even later than March. But we will agree to the date of 27 March. We believe there are significant issues that do need to be ventilated. We disagree with Senator Xenophon that 15 February—the date that the government wants and as is currently in the selection of bills report—is far too short for these very significant issues. They are important issues to the operation of the ABCC. This legislation is clearly aimed at getting at workers. We think those issues need to be properly ventilated. And a couple of days—let's face it: today is Thursday; they want to report on 15 February. If you take out the weekend, that is very little time to look at the significant issues that arise out of the backflip that has happened here and the impact on Australian workers.</para>
<para>In terms of the omnibus bill—or, as many people now call it, the 'omni-cuts bill'—there are 18 clauses that need to be looked at. They need to be looked at in a cumulative manner in terms of the cumulative impacts on families, on age pensioners, on young people—these need to be looked at. On parents, the government is trying to impose the ordinary waiting period here on parenting payments. These are parents that will need access to this funding very quickly. So what they are saying is: 'You and your kids can go without a payment for a week.' These are parents that, by the very nature of them applying, have very little resources to support their families. It is cruel; it is mean; it is harsh. The government will say there are exemptions. But you have to go through the process of applying for the exemption. In the meantime, if you are in the position where you have to apply for an exemption, you have come out of a situation that is urgent—domestic violence may be involved—and you have to then turn around and go through the bureaucratic process of applying for an exemption in order to get money to feed your kids. It is ridiculous. It is the same with your energy supplement. Again, I will pre-empt the government—'This is an extra payment.' This is the payment that people have come to rely on. One of the other measures in this bill freezes indexation, which means frozen indexation on the income that you can earn. This means fewer and fewer people will be able to access Newstart.</para>
<para>There is a measure called, 'Schedule 11: The automation'—start getting worried folks because it says 'automation'—'of income stream review processes'. Yes—that is right: on the back of the debacle over Christmas of the Centrelink automated debt recovery process the government, under the guise of this bill, wants to ram a new measure through. This measure is a MYEFO measure. It has not been considered before. So let's slip that in to the omnibus amendment where we are talking about childcare and paid parental leave! Let's slip that in and see if we can sneak that through so that we can build on the debacle for which, yesterday, we established a Senate inquiry into! So that needs to be looked at so that we get a thorough understanding about what that means.</para>
<para>And, of course, they have slipped into the omnibus bill the bill that cuts portability for age pensioners when they are going overseas. But, also, they are stopping the payment of the pension supplement after six weeks for pensioners overseas. This bill will have a significant impact on Australians. And, of course, we have the issues around the little bit of extra family tax benefit that people will get, but that is actually a change to the bill that we dealt with previously in this place, and it means that people will still be worse off under these cuts. Then, of course, there are the young people that they want to kick off income support for what will then be five weeks—four weeks on top of the ordinary waiting week. This will have a significant impact on young Australians and comes directly from the Abbott zombie cuts of 2014, where they tried to kick people off for six months. The Senate said, 'No, we're not wearing that,' and the Senate has also said, 'No, we're not going to wear the four weeks.' The Senate needs time to consider this in total again. That is why we will be supporting this. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>00AOP</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I remind senators that this amendment has been split into two. We will first be looking at paragraph (1), which has the revised reporting date of 20 March. The question is that that motion, as moved by Senator Gallagher, be agreed to.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>00AOP</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>We now move to the second part of the motion, paragraph (2), which seeks a reporting date of 27 March for the inquiry into the ABCC bill. The question is that the motion moved by Senator Gallagher described as motion 2 be agreed to.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [12:21]<br />(The Deputy President—Senator Lines)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>31</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Bilyk, CL</name>
                  <name>Brown, CL</name>
                  <name>Cameron, DN</name>
                  <name>Carr, KJ</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A</name>
                  <name>Collins, JMA</name>
                  <name>Dastyari, S</name>
                  <name>Di Natale, R</name>
                  <name>Dodson, P</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D</name>
                  <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                  <name>Gallagher, KR</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                  <name>Ketter, CR</name>
                  <name>Kitching, K</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J</name>
                  <name>Ludlam, S</name>
                  <name>Marshall, GM</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J (teller)</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M</name>
                  <name>McKim, NJ</name>
                  <name>Moore, CM</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, DM</name>
                  <name>Pratt, LC</name>
                  <name>Rhiannon, L</name>
                  <name>Rice, J</name>
                  <name>Siewert, R</name>
                  <name>Singh, LM</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, AE</name>
                  <name>Watt, M</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>33</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Abetz, E</name>
                  <name>Back, CJ</name>
                  <name>Bernardi, C</name>
                  <name>Birmingham, SJ</name>
                  <name>Burston, B</name>
                  <name>Bushby, DC (teller)</name>
                  <name>Cash, MC</name>
                  <name>Cormann, M</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, DJ</name>
                  <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                  <name>Fifield, MP</name>
                  <name>Griff, S</name>
                  <name>Hanson, P</name>
                  <name>Hinch, D</name>
                  <name>Hume, J</name>
                  <name>Kakoschke-Moore, S</name>
                  <name>Leyonhjelm, DE</name>
                  <name>Macdonald, ID</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                  <name>Nash, F</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, B</name>
                  <name>Paterson, J</name>
                  <name>Payne, MA</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A</name>
                  <name>Ryan, SM</name>
                  <name>Scullion, NG</name>
                  <name>Seselja, Z</name>
                  <name>Smith, D</name>
                  <name>Williams, JR</name>
                  <name>Xenophon, N</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>4</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Polley, H</name>
                  <name>Reynolds, L</name>
                  <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                  <name>Sinodinos, A</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                  <name>Canavan, MJ</name>
                  <name>Wong, P</name>
                  <name>Brandis, G</name>
                </names>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:24</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator IAN MACDONALD</name>
    <name.id>YW4</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<para>At the end of the motion, add:</para>
<para>'and, that the Life Gold Pass Bill be referred to the Economics Legislation Committee for inquiry and report by 28 February 2017.'</para>
<para>In speaking to this motion, I do think that we should give those impacted by this legislation the right to be heard. This does not affect many people. Can I just say to those in the media who will misinterpret my comments—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>00AOP</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Macdonald, please resume you seat for a moment. Senators, it is a bit difficult to see who wants the call, so if you wish to remain in the chamber, please take your seat. Senator McAllister on a point of order?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McAllister</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Madam Deputy President, I am just looking for some clarification on the legislation that Senator Macdonald is referring to. I could not hear what he said at the beginning of his address.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>00AOP</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Macdonald is seeking to amend the motion in relation to Life Gold Pass Bill. Senator Macdonald.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator IAN MACDONALD</name>
    <name.id>YW4</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I am sorry people have left the chamber, because I have not been able to speak to colleagues, but I had hoped they would stay and listen to the argument. Can I say to the media, who will misinterpret my motives: I will probably leave this place in a box, so this will not relate to me. If I do not, the last thing I want to do ever again, after 27 years of flying from Townsville to Canberra to do my job here, is sit on a plane. But there are a group of people for whom the Life Gold Pass was part of their arrangement when they served in this place, on far fewer conditions and less remunerations than any of those who serve now. This was part of the deal. There are only a couple of dozen, perhaps a couple of hundred, elderly former parliamentarians who would be affected. So none of you would care too much about this. But they should at least be given the chance to voice their views by appearing at a parliamentary committee. It would also allow the Law Society and all of those others who continually make submissions about retrospective legislation to come in and give advice and evidence to a parliamentary committee about the ills of retrospective legislation—and that is what this is.</para>
<para>We know the public hate all of you—and you bring it upon yourself, because you continually denigrate yourselves. But at least let these people who are affected come in and have their say, importantly, on the ills of any sort of retrospective legislation—even legislation that does something for a group of people as unpopular as former politicians and former prime ministers. Let the Law Society again confirm to us how bad any retrospective legislation is. You may not like this. The public will hate it. Former prime ministers and parliamentarians are the lowest, in their view. But these people are entitled to what was agreed upon in legislation 20 and 30 years ago, and it should not be taken from them. No legislation that is retrospective should ever be adopted this parliament.</para>
<para>We will debate the issue later on, but I ask the parliament at this stage to at least give those affected the opportunity of having their voices heard, because that has not happened so far. Let us further consider the ills of any form of legislation that is retrospective. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>00AOP</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The time for this debate has expired. To be clear, Senator Macdonald wishes to amend the motion put by Senator Bushby. The question is that the amendment moved by Senator Macdonald be agreed to.</para>
<para>Question negatived.</para>
<para>Motion, as amended, agreed to.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BUSINESS</title>
        <page.no>32</page.no>
        <type>BUSINESS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Rearrangement</title>
          <page.no>32</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:30</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) government business orders of the day as shown on today's <inline font-style="italic">order of business</inline> be considered from 12.45 pm today; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) government business be called on after consideration of the bills listed in paragraph (a) and considered till not later than 2 pm today.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">–––––––––––</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Non-controversial government business—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">No. 2 Corporations Amendment (Life Insurance Remuneration Arrangements) Bill 2016</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">No. 3 Corporations Amendment (Professional Standards of Financial Advisers) Bill 2016</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">No. 4 Tax and Superannuation Laws Amendment (2016 Measures No. 2) Bill 2016</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">No. 5 Hazardous Waste (Regulation of Exports and Imports) Amendment Bill 2016</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Hazardous Waste (Regulation of Exports and Imports) Levy Bill 2016</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">No. 6 Statute Update (A.C.T. Self-Government (Consequential Provisions) Regulations) Bill 2016</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">No. 7 Regulatory Powers (Standardisation Reform) Bill 2016</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Rearrangement</title>
          <page.no>33</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:30</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the order of general business for consideration today be as follows:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) general business notice of motion no. 199 standing in the name of Senator Gallagher relating to public infrastructure; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) orders of the day relating to documents.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Rearrangement</title>
          <page.no>33</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:31</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the general business order of the day no. 38 (Australian Human Rights Commission Amendment (Preliminary Assessment Process) Bill 2017) be considered on Thursday, 16 February 2017 under consideration of private senators' bills.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>NOTICES</title>
        <page.no>33</page.no>
        <type>NOTICES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Postponement</title>
          <page.no>33</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>33</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Privileges Committee</title>
          <page.no>33</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:31</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SIEWERT</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>At the request of Senator Whish-Wilson, I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the following matter be referred to the Standing Committee of Privileges for inquiry and report:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Having regard to the material tabled by the President on 8 February 2017, whether there was any attempt to improperly influence a witness before the Environment and Communications References Committee, and whether any contempt of the Senate was committed in that regard.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>MOTIONS</title>
        <page.no>33</page.no>
        <type>MOTIONS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Housing Affordability</title>
          <page.no>33</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:32</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RHIANNON</name>
    <name.id>CPR</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I, and also on behalf of Senator Cameron, move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) notes that:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (i) the proportion of Australians leasing in the private rental housing market is the highest in over 50 years,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (ii) long-run structural changes in Australia's housing system are leading to increasing numbers of households choosing to rent on a long-term and, in some cases, a permanent basis,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (iii) comparative international studies, including a 2011 study by the Australian Housing and Urban Research Institute, show that tenancy laws administered by the Australian states and territories perform poorly in the provision of tenant protections against arbitrary eviction, excessive rent increases and allowing tenants the full enjoyment of their home,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (iv) in the absence of affordable owner-occupied housing, life-long renting is now a prospect for many people, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (v) Australian tenancy laws may no longer be fit for purpose; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) calls on the Government to work with the states, territories and relevant non-government organisations to set national minimum tenancy standards to ensure that tenants' rights are protected in relation to matters, including fairer processes around lease terminations and evictions, fair standards to govern the amounts by which rents can be increased, and provide for long-term residential leases that enable households the full enjoyment of a secure home.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:32</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McGRATH</name>
    <name.id>217241</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a short statement.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>G0D</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Leave is granted for one minute.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McGRATH</name>
    <name.id>217241</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The regulation of tenancy standards is the responsibility of the states and territories. The government is already working with states and territories through the Council on Federal Financial Relations on policy to improve affordability and the supply of housing.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Australia Day</title>
          <page.no>34</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:33</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SIEWERT</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) acknowledges:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (i) that Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples are the First Peoples of these lands and waters,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (ii) that 26 January is a day of mourning for many Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples as it represents the beginning of colonisation, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (iii) the call from Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander organisations, local governments and community support to change the date; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) calls on federal, state and territory governments to change the date of Australia Day so that all Australians can participate in celebrating this national day.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:33</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McGRATH</name>
    <name.id>217241</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a short statement.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>G0D</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Leave is granted for one minute.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McGRATH</name>
    <name.id>217241</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The government's response is no.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:33</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLACHER</name>
    <name.id>204953</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a short statement.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>G0D</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Leave is granted for one minute.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLACHER</name>
    <name.id>204953</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>It is a bit longer than the last short statement, but it is still short. The opposition opposes this motion, and we proudly celebrate our national day. Australia Day should be a day of national celebration and national pride on which we can celebrate all the good things that it means to be Australian and the great fortune we have to live in this country.</para>
<para>This of course does not mean forgetting our scars, and the opposition understands that for many First Australians this date still carries much sadness, following too many years of injuries and indignities great and small. The opposition believes that we as a nation must honour the keepers of the world's oldest living culture, the caretakers of this ancient continent. We must pledge ourselves to working together for a more equal future for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>G0D</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the motion moved by Senator Siewert, No. 184, be agreed to.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
          <division.header>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [12:39]<br />(The Acting Deputy President—Senator Bernardi)</p>
            </body>
          </division.header>
          <division.data>
            <ayes>
              <num.votes>7</num.votes>
              <title>AYES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Di Natale, R</name>
                <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                <name>Ludlam, S</name>
                <name>McKim, NJ</name>
                <name>Rhiannon, L</name>
                <name>Rice, J</name>
                <name>Siewert, R (teller)</name>
              </names>
            </ayes>
            <noes>
              <num.votes>44</num.votes>
              <title>NOES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Abetz, E</name>
                <name>Bilyk, CL</name>
                <name>Brown, CL</name>
                <name>Burston, B</name>
                <name>Bushby, DC</name>
                <name>Cameron, DN</name>
                <name>Carr, KJ</name>
                <name>Cash, MC</name>
                <name>Chisholm, A</name>
                <name>Collins, JMA</name>
                <name>Cormann, M</name>
                <name>Dastyari, S</name>
                <name>Duniam, J</name>
                <name>Farrell, D</name>
                <name>Fawcett, DJ</name>
                <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                <name>Fifield, MP</name>
                <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                <name>Gallagher, KR</name>
                <name>Hanson, P</name>
                <name>Hinch, D</name>
                <name>Hume, J</name>
                <name>Ketter, CR</name>
                <name>Kitching, K</name>
                <name>Lambie, J</name>
                <name>Leyonhjelm, DE</name>
                <name>Macdonald, ID</name>
                <name>Marshall, GM</name>
                <name>McGrath, J</name>
                <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                <name>Moore, CM</name>
                <name>O'Sullivan, B</name>
                <name>Paterson, J</name>
                <name>Polley, H</name>
                <name>Pratt, LC</name>
                <name>Roberts, M</name>
                <name>Ruston, A</name>
                <name>Ryan, SM</name>
                <name>Singh, LM</name>
                <name>Sinodinos, A</name>
                <name>Smith, D</name>
                <name>Urquhart, AE (teller)</name>
                <name>Watt, M</name>
                <name>Williams, JR</name>
              </names>
            </noes>
            <pairs>
              <num.votes>0</num.votes>
              <title>PAIRS</title>
              <names></names>
            </pairs>
          </division.data>
          <division.result>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
            </body>
          </division.result>
        </division></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Resources Industry</title>
          <page.no>35</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:42</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator IAN MACDONALD</name>
    <name.id>YW4</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) notes the substantial contribution to the economic health of North Queensland provided by the resources industry;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) acknowledges that the resources industry:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (i) contributed $2.97 billion in gross regional product in 2015-16 across two of the electorates that comprise a large part of North Queensland, namely Herbert and Kennedy,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (ii) paid $673 million in wages to 5,053 full-time employees in 2015-16 across the electorates of Herbert and Kennedy,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (iii) spent $952 million on local goods and services in 2015-16 across the electorates of Herbert and Kennedy, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (iv) made contributions that benefited 151 community organisations in 2015-16 across the electorates of Herbert and Kennedy; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) urges the Government to continue its support of this economically, socially and environmentally responsible industry.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Closing the Gap</title>
          <page.no>35</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:43</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'NEILL</name>
    <name.id>140651</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to amend general business notice of motion No. 186, standing in my name for today, relating to the presentation of annual reports concerning the Closing the Gap initiative.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<para>I amend the motion in the terms circulated in the chamber and move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) notes the national framework agreed to by the Council of Australian Governments (COAG) in 2008 to tackle Indigenous disadvantage and the six priority areas for change identified by COAG;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) further notes that reports are presented by the Prime Minister to the Australian Parliament annually on progress in meeting these 'Closing the Gap' targets, along with a response by the Leader of the Opposition;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) is of the view that the presentation of these annual reports should be marked by a special parliamentary procedure in recognition of the significance of these initiatives to all Australians;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(d) therefore proposes to the House of Representatives that it consider marking the presentation of the Prime Minister's annual report on 'Closing the Gap' by:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (i) hosting a meeting of the House to which senators are invited, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (ii) inviting senior Indigenous leaders to be present when the Prime Minister's annual report is presented; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(e) resolves that, on its presentation to the Senate, the Prime Minister's annual report on 'Closing the Gap' and accompanying ministerial statement be listed for consideration as a government business order of the day, and that the Government undertake to provide for at least 2 hours consideration of the statement during government business time, not more than eight sitting days following the presentation of the report to the Senate.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) This order have continuing effect.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:43</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McGRATH</name>
    <name.id>217241</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a short statement.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>G0D</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Leave is granted for one minute.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McGRATH</name>
    <name.id>217241</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senators are welcome to attend the tabling of the <inline font-style="italic">Closing the gap </inline>report, and some have attended in previous years. We welcome that, and processes are underway to invite senators to this year's event. It is noted that we have five Indigenous members and senators in our parliament. Indigenous leaders are welcome in the gallery, and we expect many people to attend again this year. This is consistent with the protocols Labor followed when in government. We encourage all members and senators to continue to discuss issues impacting Indigenous people in parliament and also in the community.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>G0D</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Sorry, colleagues, there is a leave request that is coming in. You have got 10 seconds. It is the only thing I can deal with right now.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>NOTICES</title>
        <page.no>36</page.no>
        <type>NOTICES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Presentation</title>
          <page.no>36</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BILLS</title>
        <page.no>36</page.no>
        <type>BILLS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Corporations Amendment (Life Insurance Remuneration Arrangements) Bill 2016</title>
          <page.no>36</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" style="" background="" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word">
            <a type="Bill" href="r5741">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Corporations Amendment (Life Insurance Remuneration Arrangements) Bill 2016</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>36</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:45</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator JACINTA COLLINS</name>
    <name.id>GB6</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Australians use life insurance to financially protect themselves and those close to them. Many Australians take out life insurance for the peace of mind that, if the worst happens, there will at least be some level of financial protection for themselves and their families. Life insurance can provide essential funds and income in times when Australians are beset by illness, injury, disability or the death of a close family member.</para>
<para>Good financial advice can look at an individual's personal circumstances and help to make sure that they get a life insurance product that is suited to their needs. Good financial advice also ensures that Australians get good value for money when buying life insurance. Good financial advice helps to ensure that, if the worst happens, the customer receives the payments and income support that they expected when they took out the policy. However, for financial advice to deliver these outcomes, advisers must be motivated primarily by the interests of their clients and their clients need to be confident that this is the case.</para>
<para>Labor will support passage of the modest reforms to adviser remuneration in the Corporations Amendment (Life Insurance Remuneration Arrangements) Bill 2016. We do so because they represent steps to improve the quality of financial advice in relation to life insurance products. They represent steps to better align the interests of those providing financial advice with the interests of consumers. They also address concerns about advisers churning clients through products. These concerns are about advisers being driven by commissions to advise clients to replace their existing life insurance product with a new one.</para>
<para>Recent reviews have suggested a number of different ways in which conflicted remuneration should be limited in relation to life insurance products. ASIC's 2014 <inline font-style="italic">Review of retail life insurance advice</inline> report found that 37 per cent of consumers in its sample received life insurance advice that failed to comply with the law. It found that, where there was an upfront commission involved, 45 per cent of advice failed to comply with the law. This included the obligation for advisers to give priority to their client's interests over their own.</para>
<para>While we have noted the criticisms of some stakeholders about ASIC's sample, those findings are concerning. According to ASIC:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… many advisers giving post-FOFA advice may prioritise their own interests in earning commissions income ahead of the interests of the client in getting good quality advice.</para></quote>
<para>The Financial System Inquiry also looked into life insurance. It made a number of recommendations in relation to life insurance, including the implementation of a level commission structure. Under a level commission structure, instead of being front loaded, the commission would be the same for each year that the policy continued.</para>
<para>The Life Insurance Advice Working Group also looked into the issue of commissions and life insurance, and it released the Trowbridge review in March 2015. The review noted the need to:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… balance improving the quality of advice and consumer understanding of remuneration arrangements, along with removing misaligned incentives, with sustaining a viable and competitive retail life insurance industry.</para></quote>
<para>The Trowbridge review also recommended a move to level commissions. This would have been supplemented by an initial advice payment available at the first policy inception and then no more often than every five years.</para>
<para>The government's package stops short of the recommendations of the FSI and the Trowbridge review to remove upfront commissions. First, the package still allows for upfront commissions but caps them. Although the cap is for an instrument made by ASIC, the government has indicated that the cap will initially be set at 80 per cent of the cost of the first year premium. It will go to 70 per cent in the second year to which the bill applies, before settling at 60 per cent of the cost of the first year premium for upfront commissions. The package also caps ongoing commissions at 20 per cent.</para>
<para>Unfortunately, because the start date has been pushed back from 1 July 2016 to 1 January 2018, it appears that the 60 per cent cap will now not be reached until 2020. We consider this a long time for the introduction of a modest reform, particularly one that was first agreed to by industry in 2015. Labor supported this bill when it was first introduced into the House in February last year. We supported the bill's passage through the House on 3 March 2016. Although it grandfathered arrangements under existing enterprise agreements, the bill as initially introduced had a start date of 1 July 2016. Had the government decided to progress it, this bill could have been law well in advance of 1 July 2016.</para>
<para>In addition to the limits on the quantum of upfront commissions, the package introduces a two-year clawback of upfront commissions. This means that upfront commissions will have to paid back to the life insurer by the financial adviser in the event that the policy lapses. The repayment amount is for an instrument made by ASIC. However, the government has indicated that they expect the amounts to be as follows: if the policy lapses in the first year, the adviser will have to repay 100 per cent of the upfront commission; and if the policy lapses in the second year, they will have to repay 60 per cent. This is subject to exceptions set out in the exposure draft regulations—for example, if the policy lapses because it is paid out.</para>
<para>The legal means by which the bill imposes these limits on up-front commissions is by extending the ban on conflicted remuneration in the Corporations Act. A key tenet of the Future of Financial Advice reforms was the banning of many forms of conflicted remuneration for financial advisers. This included barring conflicted remuneration for life insurance policies held inside superannuation. This bill extends the ban on conflicted remuneration to life insurance products more broadly. It does so with an exception for circumstances where remuneration is within the caps allowed by ASIC's instrument. We welcome the implicit endorsement of the FoFA framework from those opposite that this bill represents.</para>
<para>While supporting this bill, we note the reservations that have been expressed by consumer groups that the bill does not go far enough. The clawback period in the bill is one year less than the three-year clawback period in the industry proposal announced by the government on 25 June 2015. We would not want to see financial advisers pressure customers to unnecessarily change their life insurance policy after two years as a result of these changes. The ASIC review of these reforms, now planned for 2021, should provide insight into the effect of the revised framework on churn. We also note the concerns of some financial advisers who feel, rightly or wrongly, that their voice has not been heard in the policy development process.</para>
<para>The ASIC review will provide an opportunity to check whether the bill is operating as intended, to further the interests of consumers. We should also keep in mind the importance of the administration of the clawback arrangements in the bill. These clawback arrangements are designed to reduce the incentives for advisers to unnecessarily move their clients to new policies. However, there is a side benefit to insurers of the clawback arrangements. The insurers get to take back the commissions that are paid to the financial advisers. We welcome the fact that the bill and exposure draft regulations provide detail of when payments should and should not be clawed back. For example, payments are not clawed back where a policy ends because a claim is made under it or because the insured person dies. However, it is important that these clawback arrangements are properly administered, and the 2021 review should look at this.</para>
<para>So that the allowable commissions can be worked out, the bill introduces a concept of policy cost for life insurance products. This is the cost on which commissions may be paid. The bill provides for regulations to prescribe amounts that are not to be included in the policy cost. The government has released exposure draft regulations that state that taxes on insurance are not included in the policy costs.</para>
<para>Some states and territories have abolished stamp duties on life insurance policies. This includes the ACT, which I can say is at the forefront of this tax reform. However, these taxes remain in some other jurisdictions. The former Labor spokesperson for financial services, the member for Rankin, raised this issue when he spoke on the bill earlier last year. Labor's position is that taxes on insurance, such as stamp duties, should not be included in the amount of the premium on which the calculations of the allowable commissions are based. Allowing commissions on taxes would set a concerning precedent.</para>
<para>Given that these reforms have been delayed to 2018, there is no longer a need for transitional arrangements while the industry updates its systems to accommodate the exclusion of tax from the amount on which the commission is based. The latest exposure draft regulations indicate that taxes on insurance are excluded from the policy cost on which the maximum allowable commissions are calculated. We are pleased that these draft regulations address this concern. We will be looking at the final regulations to make sure that this remains the case.</para>
<para>Having spoken about what the bill does, it is worth noting what the bill does not do. First of all, this bill does not guarantee that these new standards will be enforced. As mentioned earlier, ASIC's review of retail life insurance found a striking lack of compliance in this space. We support ASIC in the steps it takes to ensure that advisers abide by these laws.</para>
<para>Secondly, this bill does not address concerns that have been raised about the way parts of the life insurance industry handle claims. The bill does something in relation to conflicted remuneration for financial advisers selling life insurance products but it does not address the issue of conflicted remuneration for claims handlers. Claims handlers are charged with making fair decisions on the merits of life insurance claims. It was very concerning that ASIC's recent report, <inline font-style="italic">Life </inline><inline font-style="italic">i</inline><inline font-style="italic">nsurance </inline><inline font-style="italic">c</inline><inline font-style="italic">laims: </inline><inline font-style="italic">a</inline><inline font-style="italic">n </inline><inline font-style="italic">i</inline><inline font-style="italic">ndustry </inline><inline font-style="italic">r</inline><inline font-style="italic">eview</inline>, showed that at least two life insurers are still paying remuneration that includes incentives in relation to claims handling.</para>
<para>Finally, the bill does not address the broader cultural and systemic issues that have come to light within the banking and financial services sector. This includes very serious concerns about the life insurance industry, such as high claims-denial rates, delays in processing claims and insurers hiding behind outdated medical definitions to deny claims. These are very serious issues for an industry that many Australians turn to in the darkest moments of their lives—an industry that they rely on in these moments to do the right thing.</para>
<para>So, we support these modest reforms in this bill in the hope that they will improve consumer confidence in the quality of financial advice on life insurance. However, they go only so far. We will not ignore the broader issues that have been raised in relation to the banking and financial services sector. A strong banking and financial services sector depends on Australians having confidence in that sector. That is why we need to get to the bottom of the culture and practices that have allowed repeated instances of misconduct to occur. This issue was illustrated recently when Small Business and Family Enterprise Ombudsman Kate Carnell said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">We've had a look at 17 inquiries over quite a number of years with the banks saying 'yeah, yeah, yeah, we're going to change' and then they don't. And then they find a way to have another inquiry and kick the can down the road to find another reason why they won't change.</para></quote>
<para>Ms Carnell also said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">I think though what we've got is a banking industry in Australia, particularly the big four banks, that believe for whatever reason that they can continue with business as usual and they don't have to change.</para></quote>
<para>Labor believes that the only investigation that can to get to the bottom of these issues is a royal commission, and that is why we will continue to argue for one. Labor believes that any systemic issues need to be ventilated and investigated in a thorough and transparent way. We need to give victims a chance to be heard, and we need to give Australians the confidence that these repeated scandals will not continue to occur.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:59</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RYAN</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank senators for their contributions and commend the bill to the Senate.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>G0D</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the bill be now read a second time.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a second time.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Third Reading</title>
            <page.no>39</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:00</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RYAN</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>There being no colleagues interested in a committee stage, I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill be now read a third time.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a third time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Corporations Amendment (Professional Standards of Financial Advisers) Bill 2016</title>
          <page.no>39</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" style="" background="" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word">
            <a type="Bill" href="r5768">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Corporations Amendment (Professional Standards of Financial Advisers) Bill 2016</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>39</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:00</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator JACINTA COLLINS</name>
    <name.id>GB6</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Labor will be supporting the Corporations Amendment (Professional Standards of Financial Advisers) Bill 2016. The bill makes amendments to the Corporations Act to raise the education, training and ethical standards of financial advisers. It applies to financial advisers providing personal advice to retail clients on more complex financial products to meet a number of requirements. These financial advisers will have to hold a degree or equivalent qualification, undertake a professional year, pass an exam, undertake continuous professional development and comply with a code of ethics. In addition, the bill will make amendments to the Corporations Act to provide for a restriction on the use of the titles 'financial adviser' and 'financial planner' and amendments to the content requirements for the register of these financial advisers. There is an obligation on the Australian Financial Services licensee to ensure that advisers comply with the new education standards and are covered by a compliance scheme. There is the provision of appropriate sanctions where an adviser or licensee fails to meet the new obligations. There is a recognition of a new standard body that will be set up to detail the new education standards and develop the code, and there are transitional arrangements for existing financial advisers.</para>
<para>The existing provision under the Corporations Act requires licensees to ensure that their financial advisers are adequately trained and competent. ASIC has put out Regulatory Guide 146 setting out in more detail what this principle means. This regulatory guide states that a diploma-level qualification is required of financial advisers advising on Tier 1 products. Yet back in 2014 Adele Ferguson in <inline font-style="italic">The Sydney Morning Herald</inline> reported:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The current basic RG146 standard to qualify as a financial planner can take less than eight days to complete in an open book, non-supervised environment.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It has created a lax environment riddled with widespread cheating on exams…</para></quote>
<para>This was a concerning report. It is unfortunate that the existing minimum standards of training have not always been met across the industry. It is unfortunate that the training standards of financial advisers have not always measured up to the principle of 'adequately trained and competent'.</para>
<para>What this has ultimately led to is the detailed legislative regime contained in this bill. These reforms have been a long time coming. It was back in September 2014 that the Financial Services Council called for an independent body to have control of education and professional standards for financial advisers, declaring:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Self-regulation is no longer a credible option for establishing higher standards.</para></quote>
<para>The FSC urged the industry to redefine itself through robust oversight and high competency standards to rebuild the trust and confidence of consumers so that more Australians seek financial advice. It was in December 2014 that the Financial Systems Inquiry's final report was released, recommending the raising of the competency of financial advice planners. It was also in December 2014 that the Parliamentary Joint Committee on Corporations and Financial Services handed down a report recommending that financial advisers be required to hold degree-level qualifications and undertake mandatory ongoing professional development. The FSI and the joint committee report highlighted five main deficiencies in the current education and training requirements, which include that the current requirements prescribed in the Corporations Act are low, that the standards are vague, that the standards are not holistic, that they do not require all financial advisers to undertake ethical courses and that there is only a cursory reference to continuous professional development. But stakeholders have raised concerns that the training requirements are not in keeping with changing market conditions and there is no central database with information about the quality of various education and training courses.</para>
<para>I have mentioned that this bill will also provide for recognition of a new standards body which will set out the details of the new education standards and develop the code. The standards body will be a Commonwealth company limited by guarantee, with a board of directors appointed by the minister. The body must have nine directors, including the chair. The board must comprise at least three directors with experience in operating a financial service business or providing a financial service, three directors with experience in representing consumers in relation to financial services, one director with practical experience in designing education courses or degrees, and one ethicist.</para>
<para>I make the point here that this parliament should watch closely who is appointed to the board of the new standards body. The board has a great deal of responsibility in setting the new degree requirements that financial advisers have to meet. This task is anything but simple. The body will need to consider which courses of study to approve, which courses need to be developed and also how bridging courses would be combined with the vast array of existing qualifications. You just have to look at the Tax Practitioners Board, which oversees qualification requirements for tax agents, to see how crucial this work is in ensuring high standards. We should all watch closely whom the government appoints to the board, because if the government is serious about these reforms then they need to be people of high calibre and significant experience. The board needs to include people with a strong track record of standing up for consumers. The make-up of the board needs to be such that it can ensure that these standards are set to a robust level. If the standard-setting body is weak then the regime will be weak, and the 68 pages of law and the 96 pages of explanatory material that are before the parliament will count for very little.</para>
<para>Unfortunately, Labor's concerns about the government's commitment to measures like this one are not unfounded. While these improvements to the professional standards of financial advisers are welcome, it is worth noting that not so long ago those opposite were quite opposed to changes that improved protections for those seeking financial advice. Not so long ago the Liberal and National parties were voting against Labor's Future of Financial Advice reforms. They were voting against reforms that were all about improving trust and confidence in financial planning. When the coalition got into government they set about trying to wind back the FoFA reforms.</para>
<para>Labor had to fight to get them to back down, and it is fortunate that we did fight, because the FoFA reforms have been vindicated again and again. In fact, just months ago ASIC's <inline font-style="italic">Financial advice: </inline><inline font-style="italic">f</inline><inline font-style="italic">ees for no service </inline>report revealed that Australia's biggest banks, and AMP, had spent years charging over 200,000 customers fees for financial advice that they did not receive. The report showed that customers who initially signed for financial advice had been charged thousands in fees for services they did not even receive, in some cases years after they had any contact with their bank. ASIC's report also showed that there were great systems in place to record incoming revenue but very little to ensure that customers were actually getting anything in return for the fees being charged. Customers were even charged fees for advice from financial advisers who had left or retired, and for services that involved nothing more than three unanswered phone calls.</para>
<para>In its report ASIC commended Labor's Future of Financial Advice reforms. In particular, ASIC praised the requirement to provide an annual fee disclosure statement to each customer. It also praised the requirement for the client to opt-in to the advice relationship every two years. You would have thought that such a requirement was simply common sense. Yet, in the last parliament, Labor had to fight to stop this government from scrapping the opt-in requirement and fee disclosure statements for existing clients. This government said that these were red tape, and they criticised the cost. It is yet another occasion on which they sided with the banks and against customers.</para>
<para>As I conclude, I would like to note some words of the government chaired joint committee report into professional standards for financial advisers. The report said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Increasing the professional, ethical and education standards applied to financial advisers is not intended to be a silver bullet or a single solution to all of the issues that may arise in this policy area, but rather is seen by the committee as one of a range of measures intended to improve the quality of advice and outcomes for investors.</para></quote>
<para>While Labor supports this bill as a welcome step forward, the joint committee's words are a reminder that there is a lot more to be done to resolve the issues surrounding the culture, practices and consumer protections in banking and the financial services sector.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:10</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WILLIAMS</name>
    <name.id>I0V</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I welcome the Corporations Amendment (Professional Standards of Financial Advisers) Bill 2016. I thank the office of Minister Kelly O'Dwyer for putting it together. I have been involved in this all way through. Senator Collins is right when it comes to RG146. I have said before that you could walk out of a shearing shed and do a few days in a crash course and then you are qualified financial planner and can advise someone where to invest their superannuation or inheritance or whatever. It is just outrageous and I am very pleased to see the standards are coming forward. The board will be informed, the CEO, and policing—if I can use that word—to raise the standard of financial planning, because it is most important that people in Australia, with their lifelong savings, their self-managed superannuation funds or whatever, get good, honest advice to protect their future.</para>
<para>I also thank former Labor senator Mark Bishop, who chaired the committee when we had the inquiry into ASIC. That is where the revelations of the financial planning scandal came out. Some 600,000 Australians were written to to have their cases reviewed—the Commonwealth Bank, Macquarie Private Wealth and others then reviewed those claims of wrong advice and wrongdoing, and are still reviewing them, with compensation being paid. I also commend Adele Ferguson of Fairfax—I will disclose that she is a very good friend of mine. She worked very well on bringing this out. I also commend Jeff Morris, the whistleblower at the Commonwealth Bank.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DASTYARI</name>
    <name.id>225099</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Hear, hear!</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WILLIAMS</name>
    <name.id>I0V</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I agree with you totally, Senator Dastyari. Jeff Morris is a man who seems to have had his career finish because he was honest and decent and reported the wrongdoings to ASIC. He and the 'ferrets', as they called themselves, brought this whole fiasco out into the open, hoping this parliament is doing the right thing for the future of financial advice and the future for all Australians. I am sure there is much more to go. I commend the bill to the Senate.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:12</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DASTYARI</name>
    <name.id>225099</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I want to reiterate the comments made and add my voice of support to the incredible work of Jeff Morris and the sacrifice he has made.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:12</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RYAN</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank senators for their contributions and I commend the Corporations Amendment (Professional Standards of Financial Advisers) Bill 2016 to the Senate.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>G0D</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the bill be read a second time.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a second time.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Third Reading</title>
            <page.no>41</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:12</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>G0D</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>As no amendments to the bill have been circulated, I shall call the minister to move the third reading, unless any senator requires that the bill be considered in Committee of the Whole.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:13</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RYAN</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill be now read a third time.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a third time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Tax and Superannuation Laws Amendment (2016 Measures No. 2) Bill 2016</title>
          <page.no>41</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" style="" background="" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word">
            <a type="Bill" href="r5685">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Tax and Superannuation Laws Amendment (2016 Measures No. 2) Bill 2016</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>41</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:13</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I welcome the opportunity to make a contribution on the Tax and Superannuation Laws Amendment (2016 Measures No. 2) Bill 2016. The bill being considered by the Senate this afternoon involves the reintroduction of a suite of measures that were originally introduced in the 44th Parliament and lapsed when that parliament was prorogued. As Labor's shadow Assistant Treasurer, the member for Fenner, noted when he wrote to the Treasurer calling for its reintroduction, the bill contains sensible and considered measures that would make the work of parliament more efficient and allow us instead to focus on genuine challenges that rightly deserve more of our attention.</para>
<para>Turning to the bill itself, two of the specific measures contained in the bill stem from the periodic review of our tax laws. This is a relatively new process whereby the government subjects existing tax laws to review and maintenance at regular intervals, a process that originated with a recommendation of the Tax Design Review Panel, commissioned in 2008 by the then Labor government.</para>
<para>The bill contains four schedules of changes, all of which are largely technical in nature but contain worthy revisions to our tax law. Schedule 1 to the bill is the most consequential and deserves the bulk of our consideration today as it establishes a substantial new remedial power for the Commissioner of Taxation. This remedial power provides a new discretionary capacity to the commissioner that can be used to expedite the resolution of issues that arise when tax laws have an unforeseen or unintended outcome that was not known or contemplated when the original provisions were drafted.</para>
<para>By their nature, tax laws can be very complex and, as such, there are times when the application of tax law can lead to inadvertent outcomes. This can result in taxpayers, companies and other entities bearing the burden of an unintended increase in their tax liability or additional compliance costs contrary to the intention of the law. At present, resolving issues that arise unexpectedly can be subject to lengthy delays, often due to the need for additional legislative consideration and change, all of which can cause significant uncertainty for affected parties while the issue remains unresolved.</para>
<para>The remedial power contained within the bill allows the commissioner, by way of a disallowable legislative instrument, to make modifications to the operation of a tax law to ensure it can be administered to achieve its originally intended purpose. Labor recognises that this is a significant additional power to grant the tax commissioner and is only appropriate if tempered by a robust system of scrutiny. To that end, Labor are pleased that the bill also places considerable limitations on the remedial power, which ensures it can only be validly exercised when in line with a number of considered safeguards.</para>
<para>These are outlined in the bill's explanatory memorandum in great detail, but, importantly, they include that the commissioner's modifications cannot be contrary to the original intent of the provision, nor can the power be exercised unless the Treasury or the Department of Finance advise the commissioner that the impact of their change would not meaningfully impact on the Commonwealth budget. It is also worth noting that the commissioner cannot enact a modification that would leave taxpayers adversely affected. The power can only be used to unburden a tax liability that was not the intent of the original measure. It does not provide the commissioner with a mechanism to add additional liability to taxpayers at will.</para>
<para>As is appropriate, the commissioner's determinations under this power will rely upon legislative instrument and, as such, can be subjected in due course to the fullest parliamentary scrutiny, including disallowance by the parliament. The remedial power is the outcome of a series of targeted consultations with representatives of the Treasury, the ATO and the Australian Government Solicitor, as well as key industry and professional associations. Labor shares the view of many submissions in that process that it is important that the remedial power is only used to complement, not substitute, our ordinary law-changing processes. We have publicly declared our support for this measure to be reintroduced as we recognise that it is a proposal that addresses an existing need and that has received broad support through consultation for the measure itself and its safeguards. In this instance, we do believe this bill provides those appropriate safeguards, and we will monitor its application in practice.</para>
<para>Schedule 2 of the bill amends the Income Tax Assessment Act 1997 to allow primary producers to reaccess a facility within our tax system that allows them to perform income tax averaging after a waiting period if they had previously chosen to opt out. Income tax averaging is offered via the tax system to farmers as a way of offsetting the vagaries of nature and markets. Years in which farmers suffer poor harvests, natural disaster or depressed commodity markets can be offset against better years, smoothing out the income tax liability of eligible individuals from year to year. Broadly, this is achieved by providing a tax offset to a taxpayer where their income is higher than average or requiring them to pay extra income tax where their income is lower than average. Under the existing arrangements, if a primary producer opts out of the income-smoothing system, they are cementing that choice permanently. This bill will provide for entry into the system with conditions that prevent its exploitation. This measure was a recommendation of the <inline font-style="italic">Agricultural competitiveness white paper</inline> and was well received by stakeholders.</para>
<para>Schedule 3 of this bill makes changes to the A New Tax System (Luxury Car Tax) Act 1999 to provide relief from luxury car tax to eligible public institutions that import or acquire luxury cars for the sole purpose of public display. These changes apply to public museums, galleries and libraries that are registered for goods and services tax and that have been endorsed as deductible gift recipients. This change is an acknowledgement that the luxury car tax is, by intent, a consumer level tax and should not be applicable where institutions are seeking to acquire what is essentially a display piece for curating purposes.</para>
<para>Finally, schedule 4 makes a number of miscellaneous amendments to the taxation, superannuation and other laws. These amendments include standardising style and formatting, repealing redundant provisions and deleting references to pieces of defunct legislation, along with the correction of other outcomes and corrections to previous amending acts. They are small changes but important maintenance work for the statute book.</para>
<para>Taken individually, and in their totality, these measures contained in this bill are prudent and in the public interest. As such, Labor will be supporting this bill. In doing so, we remind the government that we stand ready to support sensible economic reform, wherever those reforms may originate. In this new year of the parliament, I would encourage those opposite to embrace the sentiment as we have and to support other sensible economic reforms that are manifestly in Australia's public interest. This includes those Labor has proposed to negative-gearing arrangements and to multinational tax, both of which would greatly improve the integrity and fairness of our tax system while simultaneously strengthening the Commonwealth's balance sheet. I commend the bill to the Senate.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:20</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RYAN</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I commend the bill to the Senate.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a second time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Third Reading</title>
            <page.no>43</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:20</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>G0D</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>As no amendments to the bill have been circulated, I shall call the minister to move the third reading unless any senator requires it to be considered in the Committee of the Whole.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:21</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RYAN</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill be now read a third time.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a third time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Hazardous Waste (Regulation of Exports and Imports) Amendment Bill 2016, Hazardous Waste (Regulation of Exports and Imports) Levy Bill 2016</title>
          <page.no>43</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" style="" background="" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word">
            <p>
              <a type="Bill" href="r5769">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Hazardous Waste (Regulation of Exports and Imports) Amendment Bill 2016</span>
                </p>
              </a>
            </p>
            <a type="Bill" href="r5770">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Hazardous Waste (Regulation of Exports and Imports) Levy Bill 2016</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>43</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:21</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Hazardous Waste (Regulation of Exports and Imports) Amendment Bill 2016 and Hazardous Waste (Regulation of Exports and Imports) Levy Bill 2016, before us today, bring the hazardous waste permit scheme in line with the requirements and commitments for cost recovery which were put in place during the term of the previous Labor government. The Hazardous Waste (Regulation of Exports and Imports) Amendment Bill 2016 amends the Hazardous Waste (Regulation of Exports and Imports) Act 1989 to enable full cost recovery under the hazardous waste permit scheme; remove the requirement for particulars of certain export applications to be specified in the regulations prior to a decision being made; remove the requirement to specify the place of export in a Basel export permit; remove the $8,000 cap on the prescribed fee amount for permit applications, enabling the indexation of permit fees; provide that certain permit and application information currently required to be published in the Commonwealth gazette will instead be published on the Department of the Environment and Energy's website; and introduce new permit and notification arrangements for the bringing of hazardous waste into Australia. Permits will be assessed on a case-by-case basis, taking into account various issues such as Australia's capacity to treat the waste and environmentally adequate management of the waste in importing countries comparatively to Australia.</para>
<para>The Hazardous Waste (Regulation of Exports and Imports) Levy Bill 2016 imposes a levy on hazardous waste permit applications under the Hazardous Waste (Regulation of Exports and Imports) Act 1989. The levy is a good cost-recovery system and a great step forward in this area. The movement and management of waste is of the utmost importance to our environment and our health. This means that any movement into, out of or within Australia must be assessed closely and carefully.</para>
<para>Labor support these bills because we believe that our environment should be protected and we recognise the importance of sensible regulation in these areas. Labor have a proud record on environmental protection and, indeed, it is because of Labor that these measures were introduced in the first place. It was the Hawke government that introduced the Hazardous Waste (Regulation of Exports and Imports) Act 1989 to implement the provisions of our obligations under the Basel convention of March 1989 by regulating the import, export and transit of hazardous waste. The act is important because it requires that any hazardous waste be disposed of in a way that ensures the safety of both the environment and people.</para>
<para>The lifespan of consumer products are becoming shorter and shorter. We must be careful in managing how these products are disposed of. Televisions, phones and computers can leach dangerous chemicals into the soil if they are placed in landfill. This is incredibly toxic for the environment and for our health, which is why these disposables must be managed very carefully. Indeed, computers and televisions were the very first products regulated under the Product Stewardship Act in work led by Senator Don Farrell and Tony Burke in recognition of their toxicity and potential to do damage. This reduces the amount of hazardous waste going into landfill and avoids waste, where possible, with recycling and resource recovery. When you go to your local tip, you will see the special sections for disposing of that type of toxic waste—the direct result of that legislation.</para>
<para>While these issues are not always the most high profile when it comes to environmental protection—these things often happen quietly in this place—that does not mean that the work is not significant or important. I commend these bills, and I am pleased that this important environmental issue is being addressed.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:25</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RYAN</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Gallagher for her contribution and commend the bills to the Senate.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bills read a second time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Third Reading</title>
            <page.no>44</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:25</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>G0D</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>As no amendments to the bills have been circulated, I shall call the minister to move the third reading unless any senator requires that the bills be considered in Committee of the Whole.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:25</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RYAN</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That these bills be now read a third time.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bills read a third time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Statute Update (A.C.T. Self-Government (Consequential Provisions) Regulations) Bill 2016</title>
          <page.no>44</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" style="" background="" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word">
            <a type="Bill" href="r5780">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Statute Update (A.C.T. Self-Government (Consequential Provisions) Regulations) Bill 2016</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>44</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:26</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>This bill, the Statute Update (A.C.T. Self-Government (Consequential Provisions) Regulations) Bill 2016, will ensure that 18 Commonwealth acts continue to apply to the ACT following the sunset of the A.C.T. Self-Government (Consequential Provisions) Regulations in 2018. At present the text of applicable Commonwealth law in the ACT relies on the A.C.T. Self-Government (Consequential Provisions) Regulations, also known as the ASGR. The ASGR made modifications to the application of 47 acts following the establishment of self-government in the ACT. Whilst some of the modifications made by the ASGR were subsequently incorporated into the relevant Commonwealth acts, in the case of 18 acts they were not.</para>
<para>This bill would make minor technical amendments to those remaining 18 acts across nine portfolios to incorporate the modifications made by the ASGR. This would allow the repeal of schedule 1 and regulation 2 of the ASGR and move the function of the subordinate legislation into the primary legislation. The amendments would not impact on the policy intent or the effect of the modified Commonwealth legislation. This is not been an issue before now because while the texts are the same and Commonwealth laws do not refer to the ACT a court currently reads that Commonwealth acts apply in the ACT because of the operation of the ASGR. The ASGR sunsets in 2018, so this bill will amend the remaining 18 Commonwealth acts to ensure that the legislation will continue to apply in the ACT.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:28</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RYAN</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Statute Update (A.C.T. Self-Government (Consequential Provisions) Regulations) Bill 2016 will ensure that Commonwealth laws apply more clearly in respect of the ACT and, in the spirit of reducing red tape, simplify and reduce the amount of legislation users need to consult when doing business in the ACT.</para>
<para>As it currently stands, some Commonwealth laws rely on the ACT Self-Government (Consequential Provisions) Regulations to apply to the ACT. The text of these laws does not explicitly refer to the ACT. Instead, the regulations modify these laws to apply them to the ACT. This bill will amend these Commonwealth laws to directly refer to the ACT and remove the need to consult the regulations. This reform will reduce the complexity associated with the regulations, simplify the application of Commonwealth laws in respect of the ACT and make it easier for users to interpret the law. Without this reform, many users may not consider the effect of the regulations and may make errors in interpreting the law.</para>
<para>This bill will also address the impending sunsetting of the regulations in 2018. If the regulations sunset and this bill is not passed, the affected Commonwealth laws may no longer apply to the ACT. This bill will ensure that the affected Commonwealth laws continue to apply to the ACT. The operation of the laws themselves will not change. I commend the bill to the Senate.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a second time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Third Reading</title>
            <page.no>45</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:30</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>J7Q</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>As no amendments to the bill have been circulated, I shall call the minister to move the third reading unless any senator requires that the bill be considered in Committee of the Whole.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:30</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RYAN</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill be now read a third time.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a third time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Regulatory Powers (Standardisation Reform) Bill 2016</title>
          <page.no>45</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" style="" background="" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word">
            <a type="Bill" href="s1048">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Regulatory Powers (Standardisation Reform) Bill 2016</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>45</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:30</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'NEILL</name>
    <name.id>140651</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Labor supports the Regulatory Powers (Standardisation Reform) Bill 2016, which continues work undertaken by the former Labor government. The principal act, which this bill implements in part in 15 different Commonwealth acts, is the Regulatory Powers (Standard Provisions) 2014.</para>
<para>The regulatory powers act was a revival of a near identical bill introduced into the parliament by the Labor government in 2012 by the then Attorney-General, Nicola Roxon, which lapsed when the parliament was dissolved in 2013. As part of its regulatory reform agenda the former Labor government developed a framework of standard regulatory powers to be implemented across a variety of areas of Commonwealth law. This project was intended to reduce the volume and complexity of Commonwealth legislation and to work towards a more consistent approach to regulation across government. As a law of general application, the bill would reduce the size of each new Commonwealth act or regulation requiring regulatory provisions by up to 80 pages, therefore cutting red tape. The bill was an initiative under the Labor government's clearer laws project, which aimed to reduce the volume and improve the coherence and consistency of Commonwealth laws. The bill stood in contrast to the empty rhetoric of the Abbott government's Repeal Day. That media stunt involved a repeal of inoperative provisions, a manoeuvre which did not in any real sense cut red tape or deliver savings to the community.</para>
<para>The regulatory powers act, by contrast, simplified operative legislation. The Labor government's legislation to implement the first stage of this reform lapsed when the 43rd parliament was dissolved, but it was reintroduced by the Abbott government as the Regulatory Powers (Standard Provisions) Bill 2014. The Abbott government reintroduced the legislation without amendments of any consequence. The bill passed the parliament with the support of the Labor opposition on 10 July 2014 and entered into force in October 2014. We were pleased that the Abbott government reintroduced that bill, and Labor supported it in the parliament.</para>
<para>The regulatory powers act formed part of the Labor government's broader regulatory reform agenda. It sets out a standardised framework of regulatory powers able to be implemented in a coherent and predictable fashion across the entire statute book. The act does not have force of its own: for its standard provisions to be picked up and applied it must be referred to either in new bills or in amendments to existing acts. The regulatory powers act contains a standard suite of provisions containing investigative, compliance monitoring and enforcement powers, which can be applied to individual pieces of Commonwealth regulatory legislation. According to the explanatory memorandum of the regulatory powers act, the standard provisions are based on powers which are commonly available to many Commonwealth regulatory agencies in their various pieces of governing legislation. The regulatory powers act does not have direct legal effect in the sense of conferring powers on regulatory agencies or imposing duties or liabilities on regulated entities. Rather, its provisions have effect if a new act is drafted or if an existing act is amended to apply the standard provisions of the regulatory powers act to a particular regulatory scheme.</para>
<para>Legislation applying the provisions of the regulatory powers act to an individual regulatory scheme is commonly referred to as 'triggering' legislation. The process of triggering the application of the regulatory powers act to a piece of regulatory legislation is commonly referred to as 'standardisation'. The objective of standardisation is to simplify and streamline Commonwealth regulatory powers across the statute book by creating a general framework of powers which can be applied to multiple regulatory schemes. Standardisation of Commonwealth regulatory powers is also said to support the government's regulatory reform agenda by reducing the volume of Commonwealth regulatory legislation. This is said to be because triggering legislation can be drafted to cross-refer to or incorporate by reference the relevant provisions of the regulatory powers act, rather than reproducing them in full in each enactment. Standardisation is also said to increase legal certainty for individuals and businesses subject to the relevant regulatory powers. That is what this bill does.</para>
<para>The purpose of the Regulatory Powers (Standardisation Reform) Bill 2016 is to amend 15 Commonwealth acts that establish regulatory regimes by repealing certain of their existing provisions conferring powers of investigation, compliance, monitoring and enforcement as applicable on the relevant regulatory agency administering each scheme by substituting each provision repealed with a corresponding standard provision of the regulatory powers act; to provide for a continuation of certain existing regulatory powers and provisions, generally because there are no equivalent provisions in the regulatory powers act and it is considered necessary for the relevant regulatory agency to continue to exercise these powers to perform their statutory functions; and to amend the regulatory powers act to give effect to the government's intended interpretation of certain standard provisions and to remove some procedural requirements which it has assessed as imposing unreasonable administrative burdens on agencies exercising powers under the regulatory powers act. The government has described the proposed amendments to the regulatory powers act as minor.</para>
<para>The regulatory powers reform project was always intended to proceed in several stages. The first stage, as implemented in the regulatory powers act, was only the development of a suite of standard powers. The standard powers only have force if they are triggered by a principal act supporting a regulatory scheme.</para>
<para>This current bill amends 15 acts to implement various parts of the new regulatory powers framework. The bill amends the following Commonwealth acts to repeal current provisions providing for regulatory regimes in those acts and, instead, to trigger the standard provisions of the regulatory powers act. Those acts are the Australian Sports Anti-Doping Authority Act 2006, Building Energy Efficiency Disclosure Act 2010, Coal Mining Industry (Long Service Leave) Administration Act 1992, Coal Mining Industry (Long Service Leave) Payroll Levy Collection Act 1992, Defence Act 1903, Defence Reserve Service (Protection) Act 2001, Greenhouse and Energy Minimum Standards Act 2012, Horse Disease Response Levy Collection Act 2011, Illegal Logging Prohibition Act 2012, Industrial Chemicals (Notification and Assessment) Act 1989, Paid Parental Leave Act 2010, Personal Property Securities Act 2009, Privacy Act 1988, Tobacco Plain Packaging Act 2011 and Weapons of Mass Destruction (Prevention of Proliferation) Act 1995.</para>
<para>Those amendments are, by and large, only technical in nature. In most instances, no substantive expansion of regulatory power will result. In most instances, the bill will not alter existing arrangements, because triggering the regulatory powers act will substitute an equivalent provision for existing powers, though that provision reflects modern, best-practice drafting. Necessarily, though, there are some minor changes in the substance of various regulatory powers where existing powers do not marry up precisely with the new, standard powers.</para>
<para>The bill also makes minor amendments to the regulatory powers act itself to clarify the meaning of certain provisions and to streamline the operation of some powers by: clarifying the power to secure evidence where compliance with a regulatory provision is being monitored; extending the validity of identity cards for personnel of regulators from one year to five years; extending the time which regulators have to launch civil penalty provisions from four to six years; and clarifying that a single infringement notice may be issued by a regulator in respect of multiple contraventions, and that detail of each must be given.</para>
<para>In conclusion, Labor supports this bill. We hope that the government will continue to build on Labor's regulatory powers reforms in pursuit of less voluminous, less complex legislation. We should all strive to make sure that the statute book is as clear, accessible and comprehensible as possible.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:40</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RYAN</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I commend the bill to the Senate.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:40</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>J7Q</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The question then is that the bill be now read a second time.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a second time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Third Reading</title>
            <page.no>47</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:40</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>J7Q</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>As no amendments to the bill have been circulated, I shall call the minister to move the third reading unless any senator requires that the bill be considered in Committee of the Whole.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:40</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RYAN</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill be now read a third time.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a third time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Migration Amendment (Character Cancellation Consequential Provisions) Bill 2016</title>
          <page.no>47</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" style="" background="" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word">
            <a type="Bill" href="r5691">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Migration Amendment (Character Cancellation Consequential Provisions) Bill 2016</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>47</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:41</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator KIM CARR</name>
    <name.id>AW5</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Labor supported the Migration Amendment (Character and General Visa Cancellation) Act 2014, which introduced measures which were the first substantive update of the visa cancellation provisions since the inception of the Migration Act.</para>
<para>We support this bill because we believe that the measures contained within it are essentially justified in the light of experience and, I think, community expectation. That act and this bill were designed to ensure that non-citizens who have committed crimes in Australia, who pose a risk to the community or who are of dubious character will have their eligibility for visas reassessed. People who come under scrutiny for these reasons are liable to have their visas revoked or their applications refused.</para>
<para>In the material that was sent to the Senate committee for the Senate inquiry into the bill, the Department of Immigration and Border Protection stated:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… the protection of the Australian community and is particularly important in the offshore visa context. In considering whether a non-citizen should be granted a visa to come to Australia, there is an expectation that the non-citizen will not cause or threaten harm to either individuals or the Australian community. Where there is information that suggests that a visa applicant presents more than a minimal or remote risk of causing harm to an individual or the broader Australian community, it is entirely appropriate that the non-citizen's visa application be considered for refusal …</para></quote>
<para>That is the view of the Labor Party and I believe that to be the view of the community at large.</para>
<para>Labor recognises that the government must have the capacity to act quickly against non-citizens who are liable to harm this country. It is also essential that Australia's immigration system allows easy identification of people seeking to come to this country who fail the character test. The 2014 amended act provided for the mandatory cancellation of visas of people who are serving a prison sentence, who are found to have a criminal record or who are found guilty of a serious offence, including sexual offences involving children. The act also broadened the power to refuse or cancel a visa, with additional grounds in the character test. The act allowed the minister to set aside the decisions by a delegate or a tribunal and cancel a visa in the national interest. And it gave the minister power to require that the heads of agencies in states or territories to disclose personal information.</para>
<para>The present bill clarifies the minister's rights and responsibilities when exercising discretion to cancel a visa on character grounds. The character concerns that the minister must take into account include instances where people have been convicted of or charged with an indictable offence for people smuggling, human trafficking, genocide or sex crimes—child-sex crimes in particular. Noncitizens subject to INTERPOL notices or adverse security assessments are also deemed to be of character concern.</para>
<para>The bill is also intended to ensure that the cancellations based on the character provisions of the Migration Act are applied consistently. The bill will ensure that the minister's power to override a decision of the AAT—the Administrative Appeals Tribunal—or a delegate and cancel a visa applies to all cancellations on character grounds. This means that noncitizens who are subject to these decisions will be treated in a manner consistent with other character-test decisions. The sections of the Migration Act relating to authorised detention will now also include references to the minister's discretion to override a decision of the AAT or a delegate. The bill makes clear that the sections relating to a detainee's right to apply for another visa and to the duration of the detention do not apply to character-test cancellations by the minister.</para>
<para>The bill also makes it clear that pending or outstanding visa applications will be taken to have been refused after a decision by the minister that is consistent with other character-test cancellations. The rights of people whose visas have been cancelled will be consistent across all sections of the act. As a consequence of this consistency, the nondisclosure of information provided by the Department of Immigration and Border Protection that applies to character cancellations under other sections of the act will also apply to the minister's discretionary power to override decisions by a tribunal or a delegate.</para>
<para>Noncitizens who still have appeal options available to them will not be automatically deported, but the government will have the explicit power to deport people whose visas have been cancelled under the mandatory cancellation provisions of the act.</para>
<para>The effect of all of these changes, of course, is to increase the power of the minister. Labor accept that that is a necessity for the reasons that I have already outlined, but we also say to the minister—as we did when supporting the 2014 act—that we shall keep a close eye on how he exercises his discretionary power. The Australian people have a right to expect that he will do so in a manner that is fair and with regard to all relevant circumstances in each case. If he does not, we will hold him to account. Subject to that warning, the Labor Party will be supporting this measure.</para>
<para>I will conclude on this note: I understand that Senator McKim has tabled a second reading amendment. At this point I would like to indicate that, while we support this bill, we will not be entertaining this second reading amendment. The amendment clearly seeks to target a particular head of state, and in this regard I do not think there is any secret that the head of state that the amendment is aimed at is the President of the United States. We take the view that the US alliance is stronger than any single person. Our relationship with the Americans is based on shared values and mutual respect, and it is a two-way street. Our alliance has never meant that we blindly agree to everything that the United States does or says. We will continue to advocate for our values, and the Labor Party will continue to advocate for an independent foreign policy within the alliance framework. That does not go to supporting measures such as Senator McKim's second reading amendment.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:49</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKIM</name>
    <name.id>JKM</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak on the Migration Amendment (Character Cancellation Consequential Provisions) Bill 2016. It is worth pointing out to the Senate and to people watching and listening that this is the third time these amendments have been before the parliament, which means it is the third time that the government has had the opportunity to listen to the concerns of the Australian people about this legislation.</para>
<para>I want to start by going back and looking at the history of the character cancellation provisions that the Abbott-Turnbull governments have introduced. Back in 2014, the government brought in the Migration Amendment (Character and General Visa Cancellation) Act 2014, known as the character act. This act introduced new powers to refuse or cancel visas on character grounds. It meant that a person's visa would automatically be cancelled if, among other things, the person was imprisoned for a sentence of 12 months or more or was convicted of a sexual offence involving a child. Significant concerns were raised at the time by organisations like the Refugee Council of Australia and the Asylum Seeker Resource Centre. As with this bill, inquiry submissions were vastly, overwhelmingly, opposed to the changes.</para>
<para>These groups raised very legitimate concerns. They said the character act considerably increased the risk of indefinite detention because people found to be refugees cannot be returned to their country of origin. They criticised the mandatory nature of visa cancellation powers, which decreased the capacity of the system to consider the individual circumstances of a case. They said the lower thresholds for cancellation would trigger visa cancellations, even in the absence of a real risk to the community. In effect, they said the character act would unfairly expel vulnerable people from Australia without procedural fairness. They said we would see an increase in the number of people being deported.</para>
<para>Well, who would have thunk it—they were absolutely right! There has been a dramatic rise in the number of visa cancellations and consequent detentions. This includes, of course, refugees and asylum seekers who are now facing the prospect of indefinite detention, as they cannot be removed.</para>
<para>It is worth putting the figures on the record here. In 2010-11, there were 132 visa cancellations on character grounds. In 2013-14, there were 76 cancellations. In 2014-15, the year in which the character act was introduced, there were 580 visa cancellations on character grounds. In 2015-16, there were 983 visa cancellations on character grounds. That is an absolutely staggering 644 per cent increase in cancellations from 2010-11—a 644 per cent increase in five years! It is worth pointing out that the figures were trending down until 2014-15, when the character act was introduced, when they absolutely ballooned, going in one year from 76 to 580, and then in the subsequent year, the last year for which we have figures, 983—a staggering increase. Yet, before the commencement of the character act, the Department of Immigration and Border Protection stated in an answer to a question at Senate estimates:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The proposed amendments are not designed to necessarily result in large increases in the number of people whose visa applications … are cancelled.</para></quote>
<para>The department was wrong. What is happening is that, because this is being administered by the incompetent, bumbling, shambolic minister for immigration, Minister Dutton, who is making these determinations inside his own head—and what a messy, dark place that must be—we have seen this explosion in the number of visas which have been cancelled on character grounds.</para>
<para>Just who are the people—our fellow human beings—who are being subjected to these visa cancellations? According to the Refugee Council of Australia, some of these visa cancellations have occurred despite significant histories of psychiatric illness, disabilities or statelessness. People have had their visas cancelled on character grounds for offences like drink-driving—a completely disproportionate punishment. They lack free legal advice or representation when faced with the cancellation of their visa. I just want senators to think about this for a minute. People have had their visas cancelled on character grounds because they have been convicted of drink-driving. Yet, as we heard yesterday from the government, including government ministers when they were asked about the Greens proposal—and in my speech on the second reading, I will move, 'that the Senate agree that the parliament should have the power to refuse visas to foreign heads of state on character grounds'—they think US President Donald Trump is of an acceptable character to visit Australia. So I pose the question: if the minister for immigration, Minister Dutton, is cancelling visas of people who have been convicted of drink-driving on character grounds for that reason, as he has, how on earth can the government assert that Mr Trump—who is on record as green-lighting sexual assault of women and grabbing women by the genitals without consent—can be of acceptable character to come into our country? Talk about double standards here.</para>
<para>Often in the past visa cancellations on character grounds have related to criminal charges prior to any determination of a court conviction. So it is about charges, not convictions. It has also affected people that have not even been charged with an offence. According to the Asylum Seeker Resource Centre, there are even a number of people who have had criminal charges against them dropped but who remain in immigration detention. Devastatingly, we have already seen these visa cancellation provisions result in a death in Yongah Hill, with a refugee whose visa had been cancelled subsequently burning himself to death.</para>
<para>I want to go to the Ombudsman's report into the character act. In December last year, the Commonwealth Ombudsman released a report on the administration of section 501 of the Migration Act or, if you like, the character provisions. This report was the result of an own-motion investigation by the Ombudsman. The concerns that led the Ombudsman to undertake the investigation included the length of time a person spends in immigration detention while awaiting a revocation request outcome; notification of visa cancellation shortly before release from prison; the impact of prolonged and interstate detention on detainees and their families; and the impact on immigration compliance operations and the detention network. The Ombudsman's report found that the immigration department has consistently failed to achieve its own aim of cancelling prisoners' visas well before they are released so that any revocation process can be finalised while the relevant person is in prison. The Ombudsman's report says:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Through prolonging family separation this failure has also undermined the other aim of the department to give primary consideration to the best interests of the minor children of persons subject to visa cancellation.</para></quote>
<para>I could go on and on about the character act.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'Sullivan</name>
    <name.id>247871</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>No, please!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKIM</name>
    <name.id>JKM</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I am tempted to now, given Senator O'Sullivan's comment. But I want to move to the bill before us today. This bill makes amendments to the substantive amendments made to the character act, which I have been speaking about. It further embeds the lack of fairness and increases the broad discretionary ministerial powers to refuse a person's visa. It extends the minister's power to cancel visas on character grounds, allowing him even to overrule decisions made by officials in his department. He can even overturn a decision of a review tribunal, which basically completely exempts the minister from the rules of natural justice—not that I think Minister Dutton has any concept of natural justice. Clearly he does not.</para>
<para>These amendments are unnecessary given the broad powers which already exist in the Migration Act, which allow for the minister to cancel a person's visa if he forms a reasonable view that it is in the national interest. These amendments also mean that those subject to the minister's cancellation power could be detained if there is a mere reasonable suspicion—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! It being 2 pm, we move to questions without notice. Senator McKim, you will be in continuation.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>MINISTERIAL ARRANGEMENTS</title>
        <page.no>49</page.no>
        <type>MINISTERIAL ARRANGEMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:00</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I advise the Senate that Senator Canavan, the Minister for will be absent from question time today. In Senator Canavan's absence, Senator Sinodinos will represent the Resources and Northern Australia portfolio. And Senator Nash will represent the Deputy Prime Minister and the Agriculture and Water Resources portfolio.</para>
</speech>
</debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE</title>
        <page.no>50</page.no>
        <type>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Indigenous Affairs</title>
          <page.no>50</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:00</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DODSON</name>
    <name.id>SR5</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister for Indigenous Affairs, Senator Scullion. Yesterday in question time, the minister claimed the Audit Office audit of the Indigenous Advancement Strategy 'makes very little commentary or evaluation of the success of the programs on the ground'. How does the minister reconcile his statement with the audit report, which specifically refers to failures to focus on and 'prioritise the needs of Indigenous communities'?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:01</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SCULLION</name>
    <name.id>00AOM</name.id>
    <electorate>Northern Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank the senator for the question. The audit report is of course referring to the process of evaluation when somebody actually puts in an application for funds and how that is evaluated in terms of what actually happens on the ground. The audit report also indicated that they were not sure about how all this additional information appears. I went yesterday some way to explaining the new network that we had on the ground. We move people from the cities into the regions to assist with the evaluation of those programs.</para>
<para>This is a program that was absolutely essential. It was essential because when we got to the treasury bench, when we opened up the Indigenous Affairs desk, we said, 'Where is the plan?' It was as we had suspected, because we had asked in estimates time and time again for a single line item that said: 'This is what we are trying to do and this is the money.' I thought there was some mischief. Time and time again, the government of the day, the Labor Party, refused. They refused.</para>
<para>So when I got to government I said, 'Where is the plan, and how do we actually invest our funds?' There were none. There were 150 different programs, and that is why we had to bring in the IAS. The IAS was something that, instead of the government telling people what programs it wanted, invited communities to apply. We invited communities and individuals and families to apply on the basis of their needs, not on government needs. Yes, I acknowledge it was a fundamental change, and I stand by it. It was an absolutely essential change, because when we got there no plan existed.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:03</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DODSON</name>
    <name.id>SR5</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr President, I ask a supplementary question. Given the Audit Office found that 'administration processes fell short of the standard required to effectively manage $1 billion of Commonwealth resources', does the minister really expect the Senate to accept that the audit is just 'a bureaucratic report about what boxes were ticked and what boxes were not ticked' rather it being evidence of his comprehensive mismanagement of his portfolio? <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:03</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SCULLION</name>
    <name.id>00AOM</name.id>
    <electorate>Northern Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para> (—) (): I reject entirely the last line in the senator's question, that this is somehow emblematic of something else. This was about 2½ years ago and about a purchasing policy. There was an evaluation of that purchasing policy, and much was made of the process under which those purchases were made—no more. It is no more than that. The others are trying to somehow connect this with an outcome. I make no mistake about it. This is an outcome-driven policy, driven by Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people, from communities for communities. As I indicated earlier, this had to replace an absolute desert of policy. There was absolutely nothing there at all. It is of course important that we do look at other measures in the ANAO report and the benefits of more consolidated programs— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Dodson, a final supplementary question.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:04</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DODSON</name>
    <name.id>SR5</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Given the audit points to failures in the planning, the design, the implementation, the assessment of the strategy and the consultations, when will the minister accept that the strategy is flawed and take responsibility for its failures?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:05</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SCULLION</name>
    <name.id>00AOM</name.id>
    <electorate>Northern Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The report was at a point in time 2½ years ago, at the beginning of the program. Any reflection on that report—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Wong</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>When you were the minister!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SCULLION</name>
    <name.id>00AOM</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Indeed, I was the minister. The report does not deal—</para>
<para class="italic">Senator Wong interjecting—</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SCULLION</name>
    <name.id>00AOM</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Can you provide me some protection, Mr President?</para>
<para>Honourable senators interjecting—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! There are interjections coming from my right and my left. The minister should be heard in silence.</para>
<para>Honourable senators interjecting—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! I know it is the last day of the week.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SCULLION</name>
    <name.id>00AOM</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Any report about a point in time that tries to suddenly say it is going to have an impact on the process or the proceedings when none of them had started at the time, how can you possibly say this is somehow an evaluation? It does not pretend to be and it is not. If you are going to start looking at those programs, perhaps you should also speak about some of the other matters with the ANAO. It congratulates the government. It talks about the benefit of a more consolidated program. It talks about greater flexibility by which organisations can receive the funding. It talks about the greater reduction in red tape for the service providers and the ability, most importantly, for the first time, to develop local responses to local issues. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline>.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Australia Post</title>
          <page.no>51</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:07</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PATERSON</name>
    <name.id>144138</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister for Communications, Senator Fifield. Can the minister update the Senate on the issue of executive remuneration at Australia Post?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:07</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Paterson for his question. Colleagues, on 7 February the Senate Standing Committee on Environment and Communications released Australia Post's answers to questions on notice from the October estimates. The released information disclosed that the Managing Director of Australia Post made a total of $5.6 million in 2015-16, including $4.4 million in short-term employee benefits and $1.2 million in post-employment benefits.</para>
<para>The view of the community, the government, the Prime Minister and me is that the current level of executive remuneration is out of step with community expectations. The government also agrees with the Senate committee's unanimous view that there is a public interest to report the executive remuneration offered at GBEs and that GBEs should be held to a high standard of disclosure.</para>
<para>Yesterday I called the Chairman of Australia Post to make these views clear. Additionally, I and my joint shareholder minister, Senator Cormann, wrote to the Chairman of Australia Post, requesting that the board give more rigorous consideration to remuneration packages offered to senior executives, that the board should be conscious of community expectations in relation to remuneration, that the board take executive remuneration into account when seeking to reduce operational costs and that the board should ensure greater transparency in relation to executive remuneration.</para>
<para>While the setting of executive remuneration is the responsibility of the board of Australia Post, the letter makes clear that the board needs to be able to justify its decisions to the Australian public.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Paterson, a supplementary question?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:09</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PATERSON</name>
    <name.id>144138</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Can the minister please explain the importance of transparency in reporting of remuneration of Commonwealth enterprise executives?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:09</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Australian community deserves high levels of accountability and transparency from government business enterprises. While Australia Post's reporting of senior executive remuneration is in accordance with the Public Governance, Performance and Accountability Act, it is not in line with the community or government expectations. Australia Post should provide transparency of executive remuneration, which goes beyond its obligations under the PGPA Act. I have asked the board to follow the practice of other GBEs, which disaggregate reporting of senior executive remuneration in annual reports. The PGPA Act should be viewed as the floor, not the ceiling, in the disclosure requirements for the GBE.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Paterson, a final supplementary question?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:10</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PATERSON</name>
    <name.id>144138</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Can the minister outline the role community standards should play in the setting of executive remuneration by the boards of government business enterprises?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:10</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>We recognise that, according to the PGPA Act, decisions regarding senior executive remuneration are the responsibility of the Australia Post board. Shareholder ministers also recognise that Australia Post operates in a competitive environment. However, it is the government's view that the board of Australia Post should be conscious of community expectations when determining remuneration for senior executives and be prepared to give a public justification to the satisfaction of the Australian community. Accordingly, I have spoken with the Chair of the Senate Standing Committee on Environment and Communications, Senator Paterson, who has indicated that the committee intends to invite the Chairman of Australia Post to attend the next estimates hearing, on 28 February, to inform the committee of the board's response to expressed community and government concerns and to do so in that public forum. I have spoken to the Chairman of Australia Post today to convey my view that he should do so. All of us who are employed in the service of the community are rightly accountable to the Australian public.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Housing Affordability</title>
          <page.no>52</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:11</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to Senator Brandis, the Minister representing the Prime Minister. I refer to the Deputy Prime Minister, who on 25 January said in relation to housing affordability:</para>
<quote><para class="block">We believe that houses will always be incredibly expensive if you can see the Opera House and the Sydney Harbour Bridge, just accept that.</para></quote>
<para>What advice does the government have for people wanting to buy a home in Lidcombe, in the electorate of Reid, which has no views of the Opera House or the Harbour Bridge and where the median house price is $1,108,000?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:12</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My advice to that person is: don't vote Labor, because if the Labor Party were to be elected with the housing policy that it announced at the time of the 2016 election then housing prices would rise. The key to improving housing affordability, Senator Cameron, as many a study has shown, is increasing supply: more houses, more apartments and greater connectivity. Don't just take it from me; this is what the Governor of the Reserve Bank of Australia, who again I have cause to quote, said to the House of Representatives Standing Committee on Economics. This is what Dr Lowe said on 22 September last year:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The solution to that—and I am going to sound like a broken record here—is housing supply…</para></quote>
<para>As he said in March of last year:</para>
<quote><para class="block">From a longer-term perspective, the challenge of providing an adequate supply of reasonably priced housing for an increasing population rests largely on the flexibility of land supply and, in particular, the supply of well-located land.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This is because high housing costs largely reflect high land prices…</para></quote>
<para>Mr Fraser, the Secretary to the Treasury, made a similar observation. He said in October last year at Senate estimates:</para>
<quote><para class="block">I think housing affordability is a massive issue.</para></quote>
<para>It is bound up with a wealth of other issues. They all seem to me to come back to other questions which are related to microeconomic reforms, issues of land supply, regulation, building costs and also infrastructure.</para>
<para>So, Senator Cameron, that is the solution, particularly in the Sydney basin, the most expensive housing market in Australia: greater supply and great release of land for housing development. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Cameron, a supplementary question?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:14</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I again refer to the Deputy Prime Minister, who said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Houses are much cheaper in Tamworth, houses are much cheaper in Armidale, houses are much cheaper in Toowoomba.</para></quote>
<para>How many of the millions of Australians locked out of the property market is the government expecting to move to Tamworth, Armidale or Toowoomba?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:14</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Cameron, I know you take an exclusively big city centric view of this problem, but what the Deputy Prime Minister said on that occasion is absolutely true. Housing prices in regional cities and towns are lower than housing prices in the big capital cities. And in making a contribution to the public discussion about housing prices, it was absolutely appropriate.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Cameron, a point of order.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Cameron</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>My point of order is on relevance. There was one question here: how many of the millions of Australians locked out of the property market is the government expecting to move to Tamworth, Armidale and Toowoomba? That is what they are telling them to do. How many are going to move there?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The minister was certainly being directly relevant to the question. He had not reached that particular figure. Whether he will or not is up to the minister. I will call the minister.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para> You know, Senator Cameron, I am old enough to remember the Whitlam government, to remember when there was a Labor government that actually had a regional development policy. It created the Department of Urban and Regional Development. Like everything else the Whitlam government put its hand to of course it made a mess of it, but at least it recognised that people have choices and among those is the choice to relocate. They are not bound to do that but that is among their choices, and that is what the Deputy Prime Minister was pointing out. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Cameron, a final supplementary question.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:16</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I again refer to the Deputy Prime Minister, who says:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… if you've got the gumption in you and you decide to move to Charleville—you're going to have a very affordable house.</para></quote>
<para>When is the Prime Minister going to have the gumption to reform negative gearing and capital gains tax instead of lecturing first home buyers about their need to leave their families and communities to buy a house?</para>
<para>Government senators interjecting—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order on my right!</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:17</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Cameron—through you, Mr President—once again what the Deputy Prime Minister said was absolutely true. He was calling attention to what is an undeniable fact: that in the regional cities and towns of Australia housing is more affordable than it is in big capital cities. I am not saying that is the answer, nor was the Deputy Prime Minister saying that was the answer. What he was pointing out is that the Sydney market in particular and the big capital city markets in general are not the only housing markets in this country, and that people have choices. In pointing that out as part of the discussion on housing affordability, it was absolutely appropriate for the Deputy Prime Minister to do so.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Energy</title>
          <page.no>53</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:18</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DI NATALE</name>
    <name.id>53369</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is for the Minister representing the Prime Minister, Senator Brandis. Minister, given that the laws of physics mean that burning coal produces pollution and that pollution is not only harmful to the environment but is also associated with lung cancer, heart disease and stroke, can you please explain to the Senate how so-called clean coal actually works? And if not, will you accept that you are simply using the same tactic that was used by the tobacco industry when they promoted their 'light' cigarettes as being healthy when their business model came under threat?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:19</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Di Natale, I absolutely reject that comparison. That is a fatuous comparison. I do not profess to be a scientist and, therefore, I am not in a position to explain to you—to use your rather artless form of words—'how clean coal works'. However, I can tell you, and none of us need to be scientists to know this: there are some varieties of coal that produce fewer emissions than others and one of the solutions to the energy mix in this country is to encourage the generation of electricity through burning coal which produces fewer emissions, sometimes called in the vernacular 'clean coal'.</para>
<para>Unlike your party and unlike the Labor Party, that take an ideological if not a theological approach to this issue, we in the government take a technology agnostic approach to the energy mix. But what we are not going to do is make the policy mistake of the Labor Party—encouraged, no doubt, and imposed upon them by the Greens—of adopting the wrong mix. We saw that in South Australia as recently as last night when, once again, a Labor government was not able to keep the lights on. It is all very well for Premier Weatherill to boast that South Australia has a renewables-only energy base, but if you cannot keep the lights on then you are failing in one of your fundamental duties as a government to the general public.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Di Natale, a supplementary question.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:21</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DI NATALE</name>
    <name.id>53369</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Is the minister aware that the latest wind project contracted in Australia needed a price of $65 a megawatt hour, the latest solar project $80, yet super critical coal needs a price of between $135 and $200 a megawatt hour? Minister, how much taxpayer money do you intend to throw at this industry to prop it up and make it competitive? How much?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:21</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Di Natale, what we are concerned to do and what we will invest in is having the best mix of technologies, which includes clean coal, to ensure that we keep the lights on and ensure that the electricity that is delivered to the households of Australia is delivered at an affordable rate.</para>
<para>Australia has some of the most abundant and least expensive coal in the world, and it is a fantasy—it is a 'fairies at the bottom of the garden' fantasy—to imagine that Australian can have an acceptable level of electricity pricing if we have a renewables-only electricity power base or, as the Australian Labor Party would wish to have, a 50 per cent renewable energy base. We have to have a judicious mix of all the different technologies in order to take advantage of our natural assets, and that includes coal.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Di Natale, a final supplementary question.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:22</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DI NATALE</name>
    <name.id>53369</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, given that the brightest, shiniest supercritical coal generator would still pollute more than the Clean Energy Finance Corporation Financing Guidelines allow, will you now categorically rule out raiding the Clean Energy Finance Corporation to subsidise this polluting, unhealthy and dying industry?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:23</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Decisions in relation to finance by the Clean Energy Finance Corporation are made by the board of the Clean Energy Finance Corporation, Senator Di Natale. You ought to know that. They are not made by ministers; they are made by the board of that corporation. Senator Di Natale, I do not know how many times I have to say this to you, but clean coal will be an important part of Australia's energy mix, along with renewables, for many decades to come, because unlike your party, which is ideological about this issue, and unlike the Labor Party, which you have bullied into following you to the left and which is also ideological about this issue, what we adopt is, as I said before, a pragmatic, technology-neutral approach. Our objective will be to keep the lights on, and only this side of politics can be trusted to do it.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Defence Properties</title>
          <page.no>54</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:24</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is directed to the Minister for Defence, Senator Payne. When did the minister first become aware of the need for expansion of the Shoalwater Bay Training Area and Townsville Field Training Area as part of the military training agreement with Singapore? Was it before or after the 2 July election?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:24</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PAYNE</name>
    <name.id>M56</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The signing of the memorandum of understanding with Singapore that set out the agreed parameters of the increased training access Australia would offer, on 13 October 2016, represented the formal agreement by both countries to the scale of the increased access Singapore would be offered. Following that signing, it was then possible for Defence to begin the process of obtaining a detailed master plan and getting that process underway, through which the precise requirements could be clarified, and to begin engaging with stakeholders.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Wong</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Oh, you're not going to tell us?</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PAYNE</name>
    <name.id>M56</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I just did.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Wong</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Did you know before or after—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! We cannot just talk across the chamber, Senator Wong. Minister, have you concluded your answer.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PAYNE</name>
    <name.id>M56</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Yes.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Watt, a supplementary question.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:25</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>When did the minister first become aware that the Department of Defence was considering compulsory land acquisition as a part of the expansion of the training areas? Was it before or after the 2 July election.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:25</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PAYNE</name>
    <name.id>M56</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>As I said in my previous answer, the details around acquisition of land were confirmed in the signing of the MOU with Singapore on 13 October 2016. That was the formal agreement by both countries to the scale of the increased access Singapore would be offered.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Pause the clock. Point of order, Senator Wong?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Wong</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>On relevance. The minister is avoiding the question. She was asked about her knowledge: when was she aware? When was she aware that the DOD was considering compulsory acquisition?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Ian Macdonald</name>
    <name.id>YW4</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>What's your point of order?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Wong</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Relevance.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Ian Macdonald</name>
    <name.id>YW4</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Well, you've made your point. Sit down.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order, Senator Macdonald!</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Wong</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>You're actually not the President.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order, Senator Wong!</para>
<para>Honourable senators interjecting—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order on both sides!</para>
<para class="italic">Senator Wong interjecting—</para>
<para class="italic">Senator Ian Macdonald interjecting—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order, Senator Wong and Senator Macdonald! On the point of order, Senator Brandis.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Brandis</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Relating to the point of order, Senator Wong persistently screams across the chamber at backbench senators. It is most disorderly. I understand that this is a robust chamber. I understand that a degree of badinage between both sides of the chamber is tolerable and acceptable. But the constant stream of screaming across the table by the Leader of the Opposition in the Senate at coalition backbench senators is quite beyond what is tolerable parliamentary conduct.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator Brandis. Senator Gallagher, on the same point of order.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Gallagher</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Mr President. I will not delay the Senate, but what an extraordinary response from Senator Brandis there. The screaming is coming from the Liberal Party backbench over to this side of the chamber. We put up with it every single question time, from Senator Macdonald to the Leader of the Opposition in the Senate. It is constant. It is every question. It is every day that we sit, and he is the one that should be brought to order.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator Gallagher. Senator Macdonald, on the same point of order.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Ian Macdonald</name>
    <name.id>YW4</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr President, Senator Wong has a reputation, and has had ever since she became Leader of the Opposition in the Senate, of screaming shrilly across the chamber. I try to help her by bringing her to order. She ignores you, Mr President, and the sooner you can throw her out for her disobedience of the President the better the—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator Macdonald.</para>
<para>Honourable senators interjecting—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! I do not need any further assistance on the point of order. Senator Cameron, unless you are going to really assist the chamber—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Cameron</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Yes, on the point of order—I hope it does assist the chamber—I hope you advise Senator Macdonald that it is not his job to do that. It is your job, not his.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator Cameron.</para>
<para>Honourable senators interjecting—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order on both sides! It is a timely point now to remind all senators—and there is no innocence at any point in this chamber—that interjections are disorderly. Senator Brandis made a key point: that there are times during question time where robustness is tolerated, but to a minimum. Interjections have become a bit disorderly. Senator Cameron's point was that it is not up to other senators to advise senators how their behaviour should be conducted during question time, or other times for that matter. I would just ask all senators to consider their behaviour in the chamber. As I have mentioned before, we have the public watching us, as we do today, during live coverage of question time. We have people in the gallery, and often we have school groups here. I think our behaviour needs to be reflected upon and I ask all senators to consider that.</para>
<para>I thank senators for their contributions to the points of order. As for the substantive point of order raised by Senator Wong in relation to Senator Payne, Senator Payne, in fairness, was only a quarter of the way into her answer. I remind Senator Payne of the question.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PAYNE</name>
    <name.id>M56</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I do not recall specifically how much of the response I started on, so I will commence again. It was the signing of the memorandum of understanding, which I believe I said before, with Singapore that set out the agreed parameters of the increased training access that Australia would offer on 13 October 2016 which represented the formal agreement by both countries—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Wong</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>When did you become aware?</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PAYNE</name>
    <name.id>M56</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>to the scale of the increased access that Singapore would be offered—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order, Minister. Senator Macdonald, on a point of order.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Ian Macdonald</name>
    <name.id>YW4</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>In spite of your warning to all of us, including Senator Wong, she has immediately started interjecting on Senator Payne. Now, Mr President, I do ask that you do something about the Leader of the Opposition in the Senate—</para>
<para class="italic">Senator Wong interjecting—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Ian Macdonald</name>
    <name.id>YW4</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>and she is even doing it now.</para>
<para>Opposition senators interjecting—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order, on my left! I remind senators again about interjections during questions asked and answers given, and I again remind senators to just reflect upon who watches the conduct in this chamber. Minister.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PAYNE</name>
    <name.id>M56</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I think I said the signing of the MOU with Singapore, which set out the agreed parameters of the increased training access that Australia would offer on 13 October 2016, which was the signing date, represented the formal agreement— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Watt, a final supplementary question.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:31</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Unfortunately, we will have to probe a bit further to get an answer on that. What does the minister have to say to Mr Alf Collins, a landowner in the affected area, who yesterday told Queensland media, 'The same people that were on TV and radio saying what wonderful people they were for us have lied to us so many times. They have deceived us by omission; they have deceived us by silence'?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:32</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PAYNE</name>
    <name.id>M56</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>In fact, I heard part of Mr Collins's observations yesterday afternoon myself. I indicated at the time that, in contrast to those opposite and the approach they took to an issue like this some years ago, at Cultana in South Australia, where, six months before they decided to compulsorily acquire land, they published an advertisement in the local paper indicating to landowners that that would be the case, the Department of Defence on this occasion took the approach of communicating with local landholders, corresponding with them by mail and holding 76 meetings with 186 or so landowners and businesspeople during the period after the signing of the memorandum of agreement with Singapore, which was an entirely appropriate thing to do. It could hardly be dealt with before the signing of the memorandum of agreement with Singapore.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Queensland: Sugar Industry</title>
          <page.no>56</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:33</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to Senator Nash, the Minister representing the Minister for Agriculture and Water Resources. Minister, foreign-owned company Wilmar Sugar holds a monopoly on the Burdekin region in North Queensland due to its ownership of the four mills, together with 100 per cent ownership of rail lines to and from those mills. Therefore, the growers have no option but to have their crops processed by the Wilmar group. Further, Wilmar has established its own marketing company, as well as its wholly owned transport company. At present, approximately 85 per cent of farmers are reluctant to sign Wilmar's cane supply agreement without the on-supply agreement between Wilmar and QSL. My question is: what action is the minister taking to overcome this deadlock, which must be resolved by 28 February 2017 so that farmers can lock in their forward pricing contracts as well as be in a position to nominate their marketing company of choice, which is in favour of QSL rather than Wilmar?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:34</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator NASH</name>
    <name.id>e5g</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank the senator for her question and acknowledge her very genuine interest in this particular issue. The government very strongly support our Queensland sugar growers—of course we do; that is a given—and we are very focused on making sure that there are good outcomes for the growers in that state.</para>
<para>I am advised that, in late 2015, Queensland passed legislation that should enable millers and canegrowers to work more constructively together to determine contracts, and the government does believe that the sugar industry should work within the context of the Queensland legislation to prove it can work in helping growers exercise their choice of marketer. Six out of the seven sugar millers, senators might be interested to know, across Queensland have demonstrated that that Queensland legislation can work, by locking in contracts with their respective mills, except for, as the senator indicated, farmers growing for Wilmar in the Burdekin, Herbert and Central Queensland regions.</para>
<para>We are really aware of growers' concerns in this area—the impact on them and on their financial arrangements and monetary commitments, obviously, in terms of pre-planting, and the certainty that they need for their businesses going forward.</para>
<para>I am also advised that negotiations for the on-supply agreement that the senator mentioned are still taking place between Wilmar and Queensland Sugar Ltd. The agreement provides the marketing arrangements for the cane supply agreements, and finalising that will enable growers to have marketing choice in their individual CSAs—but, as I indicated, those negotiations are still ongoing. We certainly support competition in the sugar industry, but we absolutely support a viable and strong future for our canegrowers in Queensland.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Hanson, a supplementary question.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:36</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Should Wilmar continue to demonstrate non-competitive behaviour in its negotiation of both the on-sale and the cane supply agreements, will the government prioritise legal action under the fair trade legislation; and, should Wilmar not finalise these agreements in a businesslike manner for not only its benefit but that of the growers and QSL by the deadline of 28 February 2017, what action shall the government take to end this monopoly situation and the coercive actions of Wilmar forcing farmers into such— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Hanson, final supplementary question.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:37</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Will the government introduce legislation to reflect the recommendations of the Senate inquiry report dated 24 June 2015, code of conduct for the sugar industry, recommending choice of marketer and arbitration process to determine the terms and conditions?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:37</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator NASH</name>
    <name.id>e5g</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I understand that the government would be considering those recommendations very closely, but I am not going to pre-empt any decision of the government on that basis. I will say though what I said at the outset. This government is absolutely committed to ensuring that we have a strong and viable future for our sugar growers in Queensland. We know that our agricultural producers make an enormous contribution to this nation's economy—indeed, they drive this nation, they clothe the nation, they feed the nation and they water the nation. We are well aware, as I said, of the uncertainty that has been created and will continue to work with the industry and the sector to ensure that that very viable future is in place for the growers.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DISTINGUISHED VISITORS</title>
        <page.no>57</page.no>
        <type>DISTINGUISHED VISITORS</type>
      </debateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:38</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I draw the attention of senators to the presence in the gallery of former Senator Santoro. Welcome to the Senate.</para>
</speech>
</debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE</title>
        <page.no>57</page.no>
        <type>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Food Labelling</title>
          <page.no>57</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:38</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKENZIE</name>
    <name.id>207825</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister for Industry, Innovation and Science, Senator Sinodinos. Can the minister explain how the government's country-of-origin-labelling reforms will help consumers make informed choices?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:38</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SINODINOS</name>
    <name.id>bv7</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank the honourable senator for Victoria for her question and her interest in this issue generally. Last night the Senate passed the government's Competition and Consumer Amendment (Country of Origin) Bill 2016. I want to thank my colleagues, including those opposite and from the crossbench, for their support for the bill and the reforms that the coalition government is introducing. I understand some of my colleagues would like to go further, as was expressed during the debate, but passing that bill represents another step in delivering sweeping reforms to our country-of-origin-labelling program and the largest changes to country-of-origin labelling in decades.</para>
<para>As Australians we want to know whether the food we buy is from the country we live in or elsewhere and if it was made or packaged here. We also want to know how much of it was grown by our farmers. The coalition government has responded to the growing demand by Australian consumers to know the origin of their food and has introduced reforms to the system to assist them in making informed choices about the products they purchase. Our reforms greatly enhance the effectiveness of the new information standard for country-of-origin labelling for food. Now that this bill has passed shoppers will see more food products with the new labels in stores over coming months. They will need to carry a label with a clearly defined box; a kangaroo in a triangle logo to indicate that the food is grown, produced or made in Australia; a bar chart to indicate the proportion of Australian ingredients in the food; and a text statement summarising the visual information.</para>
<para>These reforms will provide consumers with clearer, more meaningful and easier to find country-of-origin information so that they can make informed purchasing decisions in line with their personal preferences. Reforms such as these have been a long time coming. There is more to be done, but the coalition has got the bit between its teeth and is pleased to be delivering these reforms now to provide a more informed consumer market.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator McKenzie, a supplementary question.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:40</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKENZIE</name>
    <name.id>207825</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Can the minister update the Senate on how this legislation streamlines country-of-origin regulation and helps businesses to comply?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:41</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SINODINOS</name>
    <name.id>bv7</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>These country-of-origin-labelling reforms are not just about labelling. We are also going to be removing some of the regulatory burden on industry. The passage of the legislation will make it easier for businesses to determine the correct country-of-origin claim for their product. We are going to simplify and clarify the country-of-origin safe harbour defences. That means that, if a business claims a country-of-origin on a product and defence requirements are met, it will be safe from allegations that the claim is false or misleading.</para>
<para>The bill also removed the 50 per cent production cost test, which was impractical for business and confused consumers as it allowed the cost of packaging to alter the origin of the goods. The definition of 'substantial transformation' is often confusing for consumers and businesses. The bill amended this definition so that it better aligns with consumer expectations and international norms. We are also providing clear guidance material, including through the ACCC. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator McKenzie, a final supplementary question.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:42</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKENZIE</name>
    <name.id>207825</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Can the minister outline what the government is doing to implement country-of-origin labelling?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:42</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SINODINOS</name>
    <name.id>bv7</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The government has launched an information and education campaign, which now that the bill has passed will recommence. This campaign will raise awareness with consumers and industry. Food manufacturers in Australia, importers and trading partners, food retailers and the packaging industry are all being targeted to ensure they are aware of the changes in country-of-origin labelling. We also recognise that there is more to be done.</para>
<para>The assistant minister, the Hon. Craig Laundy, is leading a working group looking at options around country-of-origin labelling for seafood. The assistant minister has written to key stakeholders seeking their views and further information on this issue. The working group will then review this information and consider next steps. The government is also working with food businesses to examine mechanisms for improving the digital infrastructure of the food industry over time. This cooperation recognises that improving those systems will help speed up the transition to the digital disclosure of ingredient information.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Immigration Detention</title>
          <page.no>58</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:43</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKIM</name>
    <name.id>JKM</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>This is a question to the Attorney-General. Attorney, this question relates to the storming this morning, under cover of darkness, of Fox compound in the Lombrum RPC on Manus Island by Papua New Guinean police and private security guards and the forced removal of at least one detainee with the intention of forcibly deporting him from Papua New Guinea. This morning you informed the Senate: 'It is quite wrong, therefore, for Senator McKim to claim that rights are being violated.' I refer you to the opinion of Professor Jane McAdam dated today, which is publicly available on the website of the Kaldor Centre for International Refugee Law at the University of New South Wales, which says that 'Papua New Guinea's refugee status determination process is inconsistent with international law in a number of significant respects'. Aren't you wrong when you say that no rights are being disregarded?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:44</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator McKim, you can hardly expect me to comment on an opinion published today that I have not read or considered. I will read the opinion and I will form my own views, but the point I made to you in the debate this morning I repeat: the people who were subject of these removal proceedings are people who have been determined not to be refugees. You say that this particular professor asserts that the procedure whereby that assessment is arrived at is in some respects flawed, though you do not indicate in what respects it is asserted to have been flawed. Nevertheless, it is the case that if a person is determined not to be a refugee, then they are lawfully subject to removal proceedings to their country of origin.</para>
<para>While we speak of the Manus Island detention centre, Senator McKim, might I also remind you that every single person in the Manus Island detention centre—whether they be a person determined to be a refugee or, as in the case of the people of whom we speak now, people whose claim to be a refugee has been rejected—every single one of them, was placed in that detention centre by the Rudd Labor government in consequence of a deal entered into between New Guinea and Australia at the time of the Rudd Labor government. The other point I would make to you, Senator McKim, is that since the election of the coalition government in 2013, we have been dealing with the legacy case load inherited from the Rudd and Gillard Labor governments. We have emptied all of Australia's detention centres and resettled the people. The people in offshore detention have been the subject of a recent agreement with the American government.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Attorney-General. Senator McKim, a supplementary question.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:46</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKIM</name>
    <name.id>JKM</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Relevantly to the Attorney's previous answer: given Professor McAdam's opinion and that of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees that says that Papua New Guinea's refugee status determined process could lead to wrongful denial of refugee status—that is a four-year-old opinion by the way, Attorney—are you not only breaching their rights but also trampling all over them?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:47</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The answer to your question is that neither I nor any Australian official is doing any such thing. As the High Court of Australia decided in relation to the Nauru detention arrangements, those arrangements are conducted not by the government of Australia but by the government of Nauru. Although the Manus Island detention centre has not been the subject of final proceedings in the High Court, the agreement between the Australian government and the Nauruan government is in all material respects the same as the agreement between the Australian government and the New Guinean government in respect of Manus Island. So, do not take it from me, Senator McKim. Accept that, if you stand on your high horse here in the Senate this afternoon and invoke the rule of law, you should respect the rule of law by respecting the final determination on this issue of the High Court of Australia.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Attorney-General. Your final supplementary question, Senator McKim.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:47</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKIM</name>
    <name.id>JKM</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Attorney, if any of the detainees on Manus Island are forcibly deported to their country of origin and, as a result of that deportation, die while Australia turns a blind eye, will you, Mr Dutton and Mr Turnbull have their blood on your hands?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:48</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Under the policies which were in place when the coalition was elected in 2013, we know that 1,200 men, women and children drowned at sea—1,200 that we know about—as a result of the most catastrophic policy failure in Australian history. We know that 50,000 people came to Australia unlawfully in some 800 boats because the Australian Labor Party had the 'problem under control'. We have fixed the problem. We have fixed a problem that cost more than 1,200 innocent lives. So, if you want to speak about people with blood on their hands, look to your right, do not look to the government!</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Housing Affordability</title>
          <page.no>59</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:49</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SINGH</name>
    <name.id>M0R</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Prime Minister, Senator Brandis. I refer to the Treasurer, who yesterday accused Labor of supporting, 'higher house prices'. I also refer to the Prime Minister who claims, 'Bill Shorten's policy is calculated to reduce the value of your home'. Who is correct, the Treasurer or the Prime Minister?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:49</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Singh, welcome back. It is very nice to see you back from the United Nations. It is good to see you, Senator Singh, having returned from New York, back in the bosom of your own party—unlike Senator Bernardi, your bench mate at the United Nations General Assembly. Nevertheless, I am sure you had a very good time.</para>
<para>Senator Singh, you asked me about housing affordability. My advice, as I said to Senator Cameron in my answer to his question earlier on, is the one thing people who want to get into the housing market ought to make sure they never do is vote Labor, because the Labor Party has presided over policies which have, not only in the Sydney market but particularly in the Sydney market, driven up house prices.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Cameron, on a point of order.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Cameron</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I raise a point of order on relevance. It was a clear question, an unequivocal question: who is right, the Prime Minister or the Treasurer? The Attorney-General has not gone near that question. He should address the question.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I will remind the Attorney-General of the question. The Attorney-General will have one minute and one second in which to respond.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>As I said in my answer to Senator Cameron's question, the real issue, which economists have recognised across the board in relation to housing affordability, is primarily the issue of supply. That is an issue about which both the Prime Minister and the Treasurer have commented on many times. Senator Singh, you do not need to listen to the voices of political leaders when you can listen to the observations of the Governor of the Reserve Bank, which I quoted in answer to your colleague Senator Cameron. Or you can listen to the observations of the Secretary of the Treasury, Mr Fraser, who I also quoted in response to your colleague Senator Cameron. In the Sydney market, for all of those long years of Labor government, particularly under the 10 lost years when Mr Bob Carr was the Premier, there was virtually no land released in Sydney for— (<inline font-style="italic">Time expired</inline>)</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Singh, a supplementary question.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:52</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SINGH</name>
    <name.id>M0R</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I refer the minister to the member for Bennelong, Mr Alexander, who last year said that 'owner-occupiers ought to be put in front of investors, but at the moment there is no restraint on how many properties investors can buy, which means they are dominating the market.' Why has the government failed to heed the member for Bennelong's advice and act to help those aspiring to homeownership?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:53</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS (</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>— ) ( I am not aware of those specific remarks but I am aware of the general observations that Mr Alexander, the member for Bennelong, has made in this discussion. Unlike those on your side of the chamber, Senator Singh, we on the Liberal side of the chamber actually enjoy a vigorous discussion—a vigorous discussion about public policy in the course of which different options are canvassed. That is one of the glories of the Liberal Party and the National Party—we are hospitable to different points of view. Mr John Alexander has a point of view in relation to negative gearing, and his contribution is welcomed. But it is not a point of view shared by the government, because the distortions of the housing market which would be introduced were the Labor Party's policy on negative gearing taken to the 2016 election given effect to would have a devastating effect on the market. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Singh, a final supplementary question.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:54</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SINGH</name>
    <name.id>M0R</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I refer to the government controlled House of Representatives Economics Committee report on its 20-month homeownership inquiry, which laughably contains not one recommendation to address housing affordability. Is it not clear that this government is so divided and out of touch that it cannot act to ensure that homeownership is within reach for working and middle class Australians?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:54</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>What we are not going to do is embark on a policy which will distort the market, force up rents and attack the value of the largest asset class held by Australians. Senator Singh quoted some observations about the issue by Mr John Alexander. This is what Mr Wayne Swan, when Treasurer in the Rudd and Gillard governments, had to say about the matter—he said it would be 'economically disastrous to do anything on negative gearing.' That is what Mr Wayne Swan had to say. So, just as there is a variety of views on my side the chamber there has been a variety of views on yours. Unfortunately, Mr Swan today is saying the opposite of what he said when he was Treasurer and in a position to do something about it. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Regional Australia: Energy </title>
          <page.no>60</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:55</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BACK</name>
    <name.id>J7Q</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister for Regional Development, Senator Nash. Can the minister outline what the coalition government is doing to ensure that regional businesses and households have access to cheap and reliable energy into the future?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:56</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator NASH</name>
    <name.id>e5g</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Back for his question and acknowledge his very keen interest in energy issues in Western Australia. The first thing this government did was get rid of Labor's unfair carbon tax, which hit the hip pockets of businesses and households across regional Australia harder than anywhere else. This coalition government is going to have a practical, balanced, sensible approach to reliable, affordable and secure energy supply. That is what we are about on this side of the chamber. Unlike those on the other side, only those of us on this side of the chamber and not Labor are going to be focused on energy security. We have said that the national energy policy should be technology agnostic. It is security and affordability that matters, not how you deliver it—something, unfortunately, those on the other side continue to fail to understand. Unlike Labor, the coalition government is listening to people out there in those communities across this country who are telling us that they are worried about their cost of living, and it is only this coalition government that is going to help them alleviate their concerns and do something, unlike those opposite in the Labor Party. We are making sure that we have appropriate targets so that we can reduce our emissions and at the same time ensure we have a reliable, affordable, secure energy supply.</para>
<para>Opposition senators interjecting—</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator NASH</name>
    <name.id>e5g</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>They are jumping up and down on the other side now, because they know that their policy is going to do nothing for the country and is going to do nothing to give energy security to regional communities.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Back, a supplementary question.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:58</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BACK</name>
    <name.id>J7Q</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I do thank the minister for that comprehensive answer. Is the minister aware of any risks or impediments to delivering the energy policies that regional communities need to thrive and to prosper?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:58</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator NASH</name>
    <name.id>e5g</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I certainly am, and it will come as no surprise to those on this side of the chamber when I say that the risk and impediment is the Labor Party, with their ideologically driven 50 per cent renewable energy target. They do not care about energy security—they do not care about the people whose cost of living is going to go up. They want all coal-fired power stations to be shut down. Indeed, the opposition climate change and energy spokesmen, Mark Butler, was quoted as saying that Australia needs a mechanism for the orderly and planned closure of coal-fired power stations. What is that going to do to costs? We see the ideologically driven Western Australian Labor Party moving towards a 50 per cent target—apparently now they have backed down, but who can believe that? Who can believe that WA is not going to head towards that 50 per cent target? Under Labor our children are going to be doing their homework by candlelight.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Back, a final supplementary question.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:59</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BACK</name>
    <name.id>J7Q</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Is the minister aware of any alternative energy policies and how these might impact on regional communities?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:59</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator NASH</name>
    <name.id>e5g</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I am indeed. Those alternative energy policies from Labor are going to have a massive negative impact on regional communities. What do abattoirs need? They need power. What do milk processors in regional communities need? They need power. Colleagues, what do wineries need in regional communities? They need power. What do bakeries need in regional communities? They need power. What do schools in regional communities need? They need power. What do hospitals in regional communities need? They need power. Who is not delivering it? The Labor Party. The only industry the Labor Party is supporting is the candle making industry and even they need power!</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Brandis</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>On that fine note, I asked that further questions be placed upon the <inline font-style="italic">Notice Paper</inline>.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE: TAKE NOTE OF ANSWERS</title>
        <page.no>61</page.no>
        <type>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE: TAKE NOTE OF ANSWERS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Housing Affordability</title>
          <page.no>61</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:01</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate take note of the answers provided by Senator Brandis to the questions without notice asked today by myself and Senator Singh.</para></quote>
<para>I noticed in one of the weekend papers that they had a scorecard for senators opposite. I think it might have been in the South Australian press. Senator Brandis was holding the rest of them up. I think he got a four out of 10. I have got to tell you, if the press had seen this performance today, it would have been even less than four out of 10. They might have even hit the minus button on his performance today.</para>
<para>Here we are, with the Attorney-General having absolutely no idea about the issues facing families on housing. He is dismissing negative gearing and capital gains tax reforms simply because it benefits those who vote Liberal more than anyone else. Liberal electorates are the ones that are doing most of the negative gearing and the capital gains tax assessments; they get more money out of it than anyone else. Yet ordinary Australians are out there, trying to buy a house. First homebuyers are absolutely struggling and this government—this mob, this rabble of a government, this divided government and this government that cannot even hold its own members in the government itself—has not got a clue about the issues on capital gains tax and negative gearing.</para>
<para>Senator Brandis says Labor's policies will push up prices. The Treasurer says there will be higher home prices under Labor's policies. The Assistant Treasurer says it would increase the cost of housing for all Australians, and yet the Prime Minister says:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Bill Shorten's policy is calculated to reduce the value of your home.</para></quote>
<para>This mob does not have a clue. Go out to Parramatta, where many young families have gone out to establish a home. But unless you have got about $1.6 million, do not try to buy a house in Parramatta because you will never be able to get it. Go to Penrith, go to the lower Blue Mountains: homes there are now worth over a million dollars.</para>
<para>Yet the answer of former Senator Joyce, now the Deputy Prime Minister, is for young people in the Sydney metropolitan area to go bush. His answer is, 'Go bush, and everything will be okay! You can buy a cheap house out there. Abandon your family, abandon your community and abandon your job. Go to Toowoomba. Everything will be okay!' That is the answer this rabble of a government have for people. Yet Mr John Alexander is clear about the issue. Mr Alexander—Liberal member in the lower House and chair of the committee on housing costs until he was sacked by the government—has said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">We have been told time and time again that supply is the answer.</para></quote>
<para>That is what Senator Brandis said today. Mr Alexander said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">But it's no good creating cities in the southern highlands and outside of Goulburn and outside of Shepparton if the same game is played ... where the investor will have an enormous advantage over the homebuyer and then dominate that market.</para></quote>
<para>How many young homebuyers lob up to have a look at a house in Sydney and are asked, 'Are you here to invest or are you actually buying?' The investors have got all the cards in their back pocket. The investors are the ones who are going to make the gains. The investors are the ones who are going to buy that house. Young people are getting pushed out. Yet this government will not accept what economists are telling people all over the country, which is, 'You must get rid of negative gearing and capital gains tax to try to level the playing field for young Australians who are trying to get into the housing market.'</para>
<para>Yes, Wayne Swan, the former Treasurer, might have said something a few years ago. But I know Wayne Swan, and I know what Keynes said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">When the facts change, I change my mind.</para></quote>
<para>That is what Wayne Swan has done. He has looked at the facts, something that this mob will not do. It is not right for Senator Brandis to laugh. Senator Brandis is going to be in London shortly, so it will not matter about the house prices! He is gone! <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:06</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HUME</name>
    <name.id>266499</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I am very pleased to get an opportunity to speak on the particular issue of housing affordability, because it is an issue that I have a personal interest in. Actually quite recently, I have been trying to buy my own house. Now, for those of you who are not aware, I am a single mother and I have three children. I am trying to find a house that is affordable and that is in a reasonable position—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Cameron</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>That is on a base salary of $200,000, so you are not doing too bad.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HUME</name>
    <name.id>266499</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>As you said, I am on a parliamentarian's salary. But it is a tough gig, trying to find somewhere that is appropriate for your children—schools—and trying to find somewhere that is near elderly parents. This is tough for me, so I can only imagine how tough it is for those who are not as well off as we are.</para>
<para>Housing affordability is not a problem that can be solved with a blunt instrument. It is not a problem that can be solved with a simple solution of changing negative gearing or changing capital gains tax. There is so much more to this problem. It is highly nuanced. We have already discussed the issue of supply. We have discussed that over and over again today, and surely, logically, this is one of the answers. Opening up supply, not just in our cities but on the outskirts of our cities, is vitally important. Demand and supply are so interconnected in this particular issue. And this is something that the federal government is looking at right now. But it is not just a federal government issue; we need state government to buy in, and we need Labor state governments to buy into this issue. It cannot be directed solely at the federal government. We need a bipartisan approach to housing supply issues.</para>
<para>But beyond that, we need to take the next step, into regional development. This is something that the coalition government has been committed to for a long time now. We have been trying to decentralise Australia's urban population with things like the Building Better Regions fund, which is $297 million over four years, and with things like the Roads to Recovery program—$3.2 billion. These are the programs that will encourage people to look beyond our major cities, to look beyond the east coast to establish their lives elsewhere, places where there is housing affordability, because it is not an Australia-wide problem; this is definitely east coast, and it is definitely centred on major cities.</para>
<para>That said, there are other things that we can do. It is not just a matter of moving to Toowoomba or moving to Townsville. There are microreforms that state governments can take part in, and the federal government will also be considering those issues—things like stamp duty, if you look at some of the changes that the ACT government has recently implemented. It will be interesting to see how they play out. But certainly stamp duty is one of the great inhibitors of housing affordability. And that really is a state government issue. Beyond that—and this is something that I am particularly excited about—is not just the issue of housing affordability but affordable housing. And I know that Treasurer Scott Morrison has taken this particular issue and made it his own—and the appointment of the Assistant Minister to the Treasurer, Michael Sukkar, a fantastic fellow and very, very well qualified to be dealing with this particular issue and working in this space. He has been canvassing a number of coalition MPs and also undergoing a lot of research into this particular issue. I know that the Treasurer has recently come back from the UK, where he spoke to the UK's Housing Finance Corporation about social investment in housing. That is an absolutely fascinating thing that the UK has been doing, because the THFC is a finance aggregator and an intermediary that co-funds affordable housing for rent-ownership. This shared ownership model is something that I think the coalition should be considering—that I know that the coalition is considering. But, again, it is one of those things that requires longevity. Housing affordability is a long-term project. To implement this appropriately needs bipartisan support. So, I would urge those opposite to look beyond the blunt instruments of negative gearing, beyond the blunt instruments of capital gains tax, and think outside of the square. It is not just about those two solutions. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:11</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'NEILL</name>
    <name.id>140651</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I also rise to speak on this motion to take note of answers on housing affordability and to express some incredulity at the absolute lack of preparedness in terms of any policy position from the Leader of the Government in the Senate this afternoon. When asked a question by Senator Singh about the government report that has been 20 months in the making, his response was absolutely missing any policy response at all. Senator Brandis in fact said, in his response to that question, that he was not going to embark on any policy, and that is clearly what this government has decided to do—not to do anything at all about the shame of inequitable access to housing for Australians.</para>
<para>The Turnbull government has indeed sat on its hands as this housing affordability crisis has gotten worse and worse. And we can see why it is getting worse—the failure of policy response that we saw in the answers given today. This government has not appointed a federal minister for housing and homelessness. There is no national housing affordability plan being implemented anywhere. The government continues to ignore the advice of independent economists, international economic agencies and think tanks who argue that Australia's housing affordability crisis needs more than blaming the states for a lack of housing supply. And that is all we heard today: the reiteration of that—it is the states' fault, it is the states' responsibility; they are the ones who should release the land; it is simple supply and demand. And we heard it reiterated in the comments by Senator Hume. It is no plan for no Australian and it has nothing to do with a future that we need to see, no vision for Australians to actually get housing.</para>
<para>This week the government's complete lack of leadership and lack of vision were evident when it came to housing affordability. The House of Representatives Economics Committee, after spending 20 months and being given 65 submissions and hearing 68 witnesses, handed down its housing affordability report. The government members have recommended not one change—zero recommendations—to their housing affordability inquiry. That is a waste of an entire committee, a complete waste of taxpayers' money, and it is symptomatic of this government's absolute lack of leadership, lack of policy and lack of any ideas about solving this crisis that is part of the world in which we Labor senators, at least, live.</para>
<para>Mr Harbourside Mansion: his policy is that your mum and dad should kick in and buy you your first home. A complete lack of leadership that is obvious from this lack of policy from the government when it comes to housing affordability mirrors their approach to economic policy. It is a failure.</para>
<para class="italic">Senator Brandis interjecting—</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'NEILL</name>
    <name.id>140651</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I can see that this whole debate is absolutely getting under the skin of the Attorney-General—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>00AOP</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator O'Neill, could you resume your seat.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Bilyk</name>
    <name.id>HZB</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Madam Deputy President, I think there was a very nasty reflection on the Leader of the Opposition by Senator Brandis, and I would ask that you ask him to withdraw.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Brandis</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I did not reflect on the Leader of the Opposition.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>00AOP</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I remind senators that there is a standard of parliamentary debate in the Senate, and all of us should be mindful of that when we speak.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Bilyk</name>
    <name.id>HZB</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>It must be upsetting them.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'NEILL</name>
    <name.id>140651</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I agree with Senator Bilyk's interjection there. I think it would be very instructive to review any comments that have been noted by Hansard, because I believe that I heard a very insulting remark. I was about to make the comment that clearly Senator Brandis is very unhappy about having to debate this important policy position. We know that the Liberal Party are vastly out of touch with what is going on for ordinary Australians who cannot get into the housing market and cannot secure a home by the way in which they simply dismiss the problem. What we have heard is the confusion: 'If we do anything, prices will go up. If we do anything, prices will go down.' They do not know how to react to the problem.</para>
<para>In addition to that, they say to young people who are looking to get a home or people who are trying to get into the market at any age: 'Just move. Go and find a life somewhere else. Leave your job, leave your family, leave your supports, leave your doctor, leave your health care, leave it all behind. Just go and find somewhere you can afford. Go to where you belong, away from the cities, away from the entire east coast where this problem is absolutely abundant.' A Productivity Commission report has revealed the full extent of the Turnbull government's cuts to funding for affordable housing. The Productivity Commission confirms that there is $400 million less being invested in the National Affordable Housing Agreement than in 2011-12. So in addition to ignoring the problems, spending 20 months coming up with a report with no recommendations and failing to answer a single question today, they have taken $400 million away from what needs to happen for investment in affordable housing. This is a government that is failing every Australian with regard to housing policy in every state and in every possible way. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:17</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKENZIE</name>
    <name.id>207825</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>It would seem from listening to today's take note debate that the Labor Party, in our first week back in this place after the break over summer, is still on the beach. They have not come with a new policy. They may have taken their break in the regions. They may have gone up to the Gold Coast, maybe Mr Shorten was down at Lorne—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Brandis</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>He would've been at Portsea or Sorrento.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKENZIE</name>
    <name.id>207825</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>No, he would not have been at Lorne or Anglesea; he was definitely at Sorrento and Portsea—absolutely, Senator Brandis, thank you. That is right. That is exactly where Labor spent their summer. What they have not done is spend it on good ideas about what can build and grow our nation. It is incredibly expensive to live in capital cities on the east coast and to purchase a home, particularly in Melbourne and Sydney and increasingly so in Brisbane, but the solution is not the tired, worn-out housing policy the Labor Party took to, and failed to convince the Australian public about at, the last election. In fact, what the Labor Party fails to realise is that the issues around housing affordability are complex but directly go to demand and supply, and so it is state governments who should be releasing more and more land around capital cities. It is state governments and local councils who should be considering density requirements around their suburbs to ensure that housing stocks, the supply side of that equation, actually increase. That indeed is not within the purview of the federal government.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Bilyk</name>
    <name.id>HZB</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Where did you go for your holiday, Bridget? You don't even have a policy. You don't know whether prices will go up or down.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKENZIE</name>
    <name.id>207825</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>What we have been doing over summer, rather than lying on a beach with a tattered copy of our election policies, is talking to constituents out there in communities, talking to our local people to understand what their issues are. We understand what they want. You know what it is pretty hard to do? It is pretty hard to get a mortgage without a job. It is very hard to purchase a house—whether it is in Bunbury, whether it is in Benalla or whether it is in Brisbane—without a job. What our government has been focused on is increasing jobs supply and absolutely ensuring that the policies we bring to this place are wholly and solely focused on improving the economic growth within this country and therefore the job prospects of Australians across our economy, not just in capital cities.</para>
<para>I know Senator Hume went through some of the regional policies that we have been developing and talking about, but just this week, for instance, we have seen support for our dairy industry come through the parliament in the House. You want to talk about jobs? I know people on the other side deride living in the country as if it is a bad place, as if it is a negative thing to not live in a capital city. I can tell you, having grown up in a rural area, that it is fantastic. I think there are a lot of CEOs of ASX companies who come from the country. There are a lot of scientists—contrary to those critiquing the APVMA situation—that come from regional areas. A lot of science is done in the regions. When we talk about not having jobs, I think about the measures passed through the House about the dairy industry, which supports 40,000 jobs across this country directly and 100,000 indirectly. Those measures we passed in the other place to support them and their sustainability were fantastic, the sign of a government focused on job creation across our economy—food manufacturing, tourism jobs, trade agreements and mobile infrastructure. It is an incredible challenge. We all want Australians to be able to realise the great Australian dream of owning their own home, but we have to ensure that they have a job and that they earn enough money to save for it.</para>
<para>I think Bernard Salt is quite a witty commentator. He wrote a fabulous article about young people and how they choose to spend their disposable income these days. I think it is quite a useful reference point. I know that my government will be doing absolutely everything it can do, but we are not state governments. We cannot increase land supply. We cannot override local councils' planning decisions. What we can do is focus on building a strong economy so that each and every Australian can have a secure job where their wage increases so they can save and increase their prospects of owning their own home over the course of their lifetime. What we have been focused on over summer has been improving the outcome for all Australians; you have been at the beach. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:22</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BILYK</name>
    <name.id>HZB</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Once again today we heard Senator Brandis not even attempt to answer the questions that were asked of him. We had the diatribe about everything in the world being the fault of the Labor Party and what terrible people we are, but it just goes to show exactly how out of touch with ordinary Australians both he and the Prime Minister, for the moment—I think he has a limited tenure there, I might add—are. It goes to show that they do not have an answer and they have no desire, really, to find an answer or to fix the issue of housing affordability. Senator Brandis was asked, 'Who was correct—was it the Treasurer or the PM—regarding housing price changes under the Labor Party policy?' which is a fantastic policy for housing, and he could not give an answer.</para>
<para>So, once again, there is lots of dysfunction, chaos and division within the government. Their attempt at a scare campaign on Labor Party policy on housing is just that. It is a pretty weak attempt and it is pretty hopeless. But we all remember the former Treasurer's response to housing affordability—that was for people to get a better job. Mr Hockey probably managed to get a better job. After all, he has gone to America and he has a lovely house there at taxpayers expense. Someone might say I am envious, because that seems to be the latest line from the government: we are all envious on this side.</para>
<para class="italic">Senator Brandis interjecting—</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BILYK</name>
    <name.id>HZB</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Brandis, while Mr Hockey has left the parliament what we have been left with is Mr Barnaby Joyce. He recently suggested that you just need to get out of Sydney and Melbourne. What a hoot! Move away from your family, move away from your support and move away from your friends and your life and everyone you know. Move away and don't worry about your job. Move away from your GP. In other parts of Australia it is even a matter of moving away from public transport. His suggestion is to move to somewhere where unemployment is higher and jobs are more difficult to secure, just so you can buy a house. Well, no, I do not think that is right. I think that shows the absolute cold and callous indifference of Senator Brandis's government. I am not sure if he is popping over to London to get a new house soon, but I am sure we will find out sooner rather than later. Certainly, I know people on his side are trying to get rid of him and would like him to go. But that is not the point. The point is that unless we address prices in capital cities, high costs will continue to push people out into regional centres, jacking up the house prices and perpetuating the affordability crisis regional residents already face.</para>
<para>Labor has a great policy, no matter what those living in Narnia land over on that side say. We have a great policy in regard to—</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>What land?</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BILYK</name>
    <name.id>HZB</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Narnia land. I am sure you would have read that book, Senator Brandis. With all your books I would be most surprised if you had not read Narnia, because you have those huge book shelves chock-a-block full of things—</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>It is called Narnia, not Narnia land.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>00AOP</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BILYK</name>
    <name.id>HZB</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I should not let Senator Brandis and his very large bookshelves and large acquisition of books distract me! We do have and have had some great proposed changes to negative gearing tax concessions that would limit it to newly built homes, and changes to the capital gains tax concession, reducing it from 50 per cent to 25 per cent. That would save the budget $565 million over four years. But, instead, we get from the other side: 'Well, get your parents to buy you a house.' Thanks very much: I am a parent and my son lives in Sydney and now I have two adult children saying to me, 'Help me buy a house.' I will do what I can for my kids, but not every parent is earning the income I am earning. If you think people on $80,000 a year are able to buy their kids a house then you are living in Narnia—you are living in some completely different realm, not Narnia, where reality is non-existent.</para>
<para>Young people deserve a chance to own a home. The Australian dream of owning your own home is still strong and ongoing with most Australians— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>00AOP</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the motion to take note of answers as moved by Senator Cameron be agreed to.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Immigration Detention</title>
          <page.no>65</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:27</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKIM</name>
    <name.id>JKM</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate take note of Senator Brandis's response to my questions relating to the forcible deportation of people from Manus Island.</para></quote>
<para>I am glad Senator Brandis has remained in the chamber. I will take this opportunity, for his edification, to read a little bit more of the legal advice of Professor Jane McAdam from the Kaldor Centre for International Refugee Law at University of New South Wales, because I genuinely believe it puts the lie to Senator Brandis's claim that no-one is having their rights trammelled here. Before I do that I want to be very clear that the Attorney-General's responses both this morning and this afternoon in this chamber regarding the ongoing forcible deportation of detainees from Manus Island were not only intellectually vacuous, not only an abrogation of his moral responsibilities as a human being, but an abandonment of the rule of law, which Senator Brandis professes to care so much about.</para>
<para>The reason I say that last point is that Professor McAdam in her opinion, which is on the website of the Kaldor Centre for International Refugee Law, says, as I quoted earlier this afternoon: 'Papua New Guinea's refugee status determination process is inconsistent with international law in a number of significant respects.'</para>
<para>Then, importantly, it goes on to make this point: 'People's protection needs are not assessed against Papua New Guinea's obligations under international human rights treaties, which means that there is no assessment of whether they may be sent back to face a real risk of being arbitrarily deprived of their life, tortured, or exposed to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.' That is the opinion of an extremely—and rightfully—highly regarded professor with significant—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Brandis</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I bet you've never heard of her before!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKIM</name>
    <name.id>JKM</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>You can say that you have never heard of her before, but that does genuinely surprise me.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Brandis</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I bet you've never heard of her before!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKIM</name>
    <name.id>JKM</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Well, I have.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>00AOP</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I remind senators to address their remarks to the Chair. Thank you.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKIM</name>
    <name.id>JKM</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I am surprised that Senator Brandis, I think, said that he had never heard of her—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Brandis</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I said, 'I bet you've never heard of her before!'</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>00AOP</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKIM</name>
    <name.id>JKM</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Well, you are wrong, George, again, as you so often are! But I want to go now, very clearly, to the moral obligations and the international human rights obligations that Australia has here. Firstly, I point out that, in fact, people on both Manus Island and Nauru are being tortured using Australian taxpayers' money and at the orders and requests of our country. We know that Amnesty International, an organisation that never makes this sort of claim lightly, has found that the treatment of people detained on Nauru—and the conditions in which they are held there, including, significantly, indefinite detention—absolutely fit with accepted international legal definitions of what comprises torture. So let us make no mistake here: Australia is torturing people. Senator Brandis can shake his head all he likes, but the simple fact is that this allegation was made last year, and it is has never been substantively rebutted.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Brandis</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>On a point of order, Madam Deputy President: as I tried to point out to Senator McKim in answer to his question—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>00AOP</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Brandis, that is a debating point—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Brandis</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>the High Court has decided—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>00AOP</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>That is a debating point. Please resume your seat.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Brandis</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>that the detention—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>00AOP</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Brandis, that is a debating point. Please resume your seat. I would ask that you respect the Deputy President. That is a debating point. I asked you two or three times to resume your chair.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKIM</name>
    <name.id>JKM</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>You are right, Chair, it is a debating point, and it is about a grade 7 or 8 debating team point, if I might say so myself. This is the legal fiction, the legal fig leaf that the government hides behind here. But what Senator Brandis cannot avoid is that it is Australian government policy that results in this torture. He cannot avoid that it is Australian taxpayers' money allocated by his government that is funding this torture, and he cannot avoid the fact that our fellow human beings, who have done nothing wrong and who have reached out a hand to Australia for help and assistance in their time of desperate need, are being tortured, are being treated inhumanely and are losing hope in Australia's offshore detention centres.</para>
<para>I want to end by saying in a very sombre and guarded way that the temperature at the moment is very high in Lombrum in particular on Manus Island. I was the Minister for Corrections and Consumer Protection in Tasmania for nearly four years, and I know what happens when the temperature goes up in detention facilities. There is a risk of violence and harm, and I do not want to see that in Lombrum or anywhere else. Finally, I want to say: if someone dies as a result of being sent back to their country of origin, Senator Brandis will have their blood on his hands. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>CONDOLENCES</title>
        <page.no>66</page.no>
        <type>CONDOLENCES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Bosman, Mr Leonard Lewis</title>
          <page.no>66</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:33</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>00AOP</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>It is with deep regret that I inform the Senate of the death, on 6 February 2017, of Leonard Lewis Bosman, a member of the House of Representatives for the division of St George, New South Wales, from 1963 to 1969.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BUDGET</title>
        <page.no>66</page.no>
        <type>BUDGET</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Consideration by Estimates Committees</title>
          <page.no>66</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:34</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FAWCETT</name>
    <name.id>DYU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I present additional information received by the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Legislation Committee relating to Estimates.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>67</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Senators' Interests Committee</title>
          <page.no>67</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Report</title>
            <page.no>67</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:34</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator URQUHART</name>
    <name.id>231199</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>On behalf of Senator Bilyk, I present the Register of Senators' Interests, incorporating statements of registrable interests and notifications of alterations lodged between 8 October 2016 and 31 December 2016.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BUDGET</title>
        <page.no>67</page.no>
        <type>BUDGET</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Proposed Additional Expenditure</title>
          <page.no>67</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:35</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I table particulars of proposed additional expenditure for 2016-17 and seek leave to move a motion to refer the documents to legislative and general purpose standing committees.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the documents I have just tabled, together with the final budget outcome 2015-16, be referred to committees for examination and report.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Portfolio Additional Estimates Statements</title>
          <page.no>67</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:35</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I also table the portfolio additional estimates statements 2016-17 in accordance with the list circulated in the chamber.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS</title>
        <page.no>67</page.no>
        <type>MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Defence Industry</title>
          <page.no>67</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:35</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>On behalf of the Minister for Defence Industry, I table a ministerial statement on defence industry.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>67</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Defence Procurement</title>
          <page.no>67</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>67</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:36</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I table a document relating to the order for the production of documents concerning the Future Submarine program.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>67</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Education and Employment Legislation Committee</title>
          <page.no>67</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Government Response to Report</title>
            <page.no>67</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:36</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I present two government responses to the Education and Employment Legislation Committee reports on the provisions of the Family Assistance Legislation Amendment (Jobs for Families Child Care Package) Bill 2015 and the provisions of the Family Assistance Legislation Amendment (Jobs for Families Child Care Package) Bill 2016 and a related bill. In accordance with the usual practice, I seek leave to have the documents incorporated in <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline>.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">The documents read as follows—</inline></para>
<quote><para class="block">Australian Government response to the Senate Education and Employment Legislation Committee report:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Inquiry into the Family Assistance Legislation Amendment (Jobs for Families Child Care Package) Bill 2015 [Provisions]</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">February 2017</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Introduction</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Government welcomes the report by the Senate Education and Employment Legislation Committee in relation to the inquiry into the Family Assistance Legislation Amendment (Jobs for Families Child Care Package) Bill 2015 (the 2015 Child Care Bill) and thanks those individuals and organisations who contributed to this inquiry by preparing written submissions or appearing at the public hearings.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The <inline font-style="italic">Jobs for Families</inline> Child Care Package (the Package) will provide genuine and necessary reform for a simpler, more affordable, accessible and flexible child care system. The Government's child care assistance package strikes the right balance between targeted child care support for hard working families who depend upon it, a generous safety net to protect those most vulnerable in our community and ongoing support for high quality early learning. This is why the passage of the Child Care Bill, as well as the savings required to fund it, is amongst the Government's top priorities for 2017.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Since the Committee tabled its report, the Bill lapsed due to the prorogation of Parliament on 15 April 2016. The Bill was re-introduced to Parliament, with minor technical and corrective amendments, as the Family Assistance Legislation Amendment (Jobs for Families Child Care Package) Bill 2016 (the 2016 Child Care Bill) on 1 September 2016.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Government response relates to the 2015 Child Care Bill, noting that some similar issues were raised, and responded to, through the Committee's Inquiry into the 2016 Child Care Bill and the Social Services Legislation Amendment (Family Payments Structural Reform and Participation Measures) Bill 2016.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Majority report</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government welcomes and accepts the recommendation from the Majority Report that the Bill be passed, noting that this Bill has since been replaced by other legislation to give effect to the Package. The Government notes the Committee's view that the Package will target support to those who depend upon it in order to work or work more, as well as recognise the importance of access to high quality early childhood education and care for children.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Dissenting reports</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government's response to each recommendation made in the Senate Committee's report is provided below, including those contained in the dissenting reports of Labor and the Australian Greens Senators respectively.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government has considered the views of the sector in developing this Bill, as well as the 2016 Bill, and will continue to consult with the sector and with the Senate cross-bench on the Package to ensure these reforms achieve the objectives of increasing affordability, flexibility and accessibility of the child care system for families.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Family Assistance Legislation Amendment (Jobs for Families Child Care Package) Bill 2015</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation contained in the Committee ' s Report</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">1. The committee recommends that the Senate pass the Bill.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government accepts the Committee's recommendation and urges Members of the House of Representatives and Senators to vote in favour of the Package in the Parliament to ensure the Government can deliver on its long term reform plan which delivers support to children and families, and a sustainable system for taxpayers and the sector.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendations contained in Labor Senators ' Dissenting Report</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Considering the evidence presented to the Committee, Labor Senators recommend the following amendments to the Bill:</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">1. Ensure that vulnerable children, or children at risk of abuse, not be worse off under the reforms;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The new Child Care Safety Net will assist disadvantaged communities and vulnerable and at‑risk children and their families by addressing barriers in accessing child care, while encouraging parents to enter or re-enter the workforce. In particular, the Additional Child Care Subsidy component of the Child Care Safety Net will provide targeted additional fee assistance to families and children facing barriers in accessing affordable child care, including:</para></quote>
<list>children at risk of serious abuse or neglect</list>
<list>grandparents on income support who are the primary caregivers of their grandchildren</list>
<list>families experiencing temporary financial hardship</list>
<list>low income families transitioning to work from income support</list>
<list>families with an income below around $65,000 (in 2017 terms) where the family does not meet the activity test.</list>
<quote><para class="block">Prior to the introduction of the 2015 Child Care Bill, the Government announced at the Mid-Year Economic and Fiscal Outlook 2015-16 the inclusion of Additional Child Care Subsidy (Grandparent). This was in response to sector feedback, to ensure grandparent primary carers on income support will have access to subsidised child care.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Since the time of the Committee's report, the Government has made further refinements to the Additional Child Care Subsidy to better support vulnerable children. For example, the name of the payment to support children at risk of serious abuse or neglect was changed from Additional Child Care Subsidy (At Risk) to Additional Child Care Subsidy (Child Wellbeing) in the 2016 Child Care Bill. This change was prompted by feedback from the sector that the original name could deter families from accessing this additional support. While the name has changed, the intent, design and application of the subsidy remains the same.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">2. Ensure that families in Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander communities not be worse off under the reforms by establishing an Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander community based program within the new Child Care Safety Net;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The current funding model for Budget Based Funded (BBF) services is not working in a fair or transparent way, with some services receiving less than $100 per child per year and other services receiving thousands of dollars per child per year. A major program review, an ANAO audit and several smaller projects highlighted a range of problems with the BBF Program, including:</para></quote>
<list>the program objective is unclear</list>
<list>most BBF services operate outside the regulatory system and are excluded from the National Quality Framework so BBF services are not held to the same quality standards as approved services</list>
<list>the program is capped and fully committed meaning no new services can be funded in areas of need</list>
<list>there is no incentive for services to increase utilisation</list>
<list>in some cases families pay high fees but are not eligible for any fee subsidy</list>
<list>in some locations approved child care services have been established close to the BBF service so there may no longer be a real need for that service</list>
<list>funding for BBF services has remained stagnant while funding for mainstream child care has increased steadily for many years.</list>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes that some stakeholders have called for a separate grant fund for services providing care for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander children. To do this would create these same issues, whereby artificial limits would be set, and services would not be paid according to the numbers of children that attend.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The new funding arrangements through the Child Care Subsidy will be demand driven, encouraging new services to open or expand their service delivery where there is need. This will mean former BBF services can be funded equitably based on the number of children they support and the services they deliver.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The new system has been designed to support a diverse range of services that have the flexibility to adapt to the needs of local families. The current arrangements do not allow this flexibility and have effectively limited services that would have benefited from a fairer funding model, such as the one proposed as part of this legislation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Additional funding will be provided to eligible services through the Community Child Care Fund which will provide grants to child care services to reduce barriers to accessing child care, provide sustainability support for child care services experiencing viability issues and provide capital support to increase the supply of child care places in areas of high unmet demand, particularly in disadvantaged, regional or remote communities.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Further, the Additional Child Care Subsidy will provide extra subsidies to families who are eligible under the child-wellbeing component, those experiencing temporary financial hardship, and people moving from income support into work.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Department of Education and Training has engaged consultants to provide face-to-face support to BBF funding recipients in their transition to the new child care system or, where appropriate, to move to alternative funding arrangements. This support commenced in May 2016.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Support will be provided in two phases. Phase 1, which will largely be completed by February 2017, is the development of a comprehensive report and transition plan for each BBF funding recipient including mobile BBF services. The analysis undertaken in Phase 1 will inform the ongoing tailored support provided to BBF funding recipients through Phase 2. This face-to-face support is expected to begin in February 2017 and will continue as long as necessary, beyond July 2018 if required.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">3. Ensure volunteering is treated similarly to paid work or study under the activity test;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">A broad range of activities will meet activity test requirements, including paid work, being self-employed, unpaid work in a family business, looking for work, undertaking unpaid voluntary work or studying. There will also be exemptions to the activity test for parents who legitimately cannot meet the requirements.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Through the Regulation Impact Statement for the Package, the Department of Education and Training's submission to the Senate Inquiry and sector consultation on Minister's and Secretary's Rules, the Government has consistently made it clear that a broad definition of voluntary work will be adopted for the purposes of the activity test.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The proposed definition which was provided to the Senate Committee during the hearing and which was the subject of sector consultation is: an individual undertakes unpaid voluntary work to improve work skills or employment prospects, or for community engagement. To be recognised, voluntary work can be undertaken at a registered or recognised voluntary organisation or other charitable or community organisation, and this may include churches, sporting clubs or schools. Since that time, and in response to further consultation from the sector, the proposed definition of unpaid voluntary work has been expanded to include volunteering in a centre-based service undertaking activities that directly support children's learning and development. The proposed inclusion of this activity will assist in encouraging parental engagement and supports children's learning and development.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It is also proposed that individuals undertaking unpaid voluntary work would be entitled to 36 hours per fortnight (step 1 of the activity test) of subsidised child care. Voluntary work can be combined with other recognised activities to increase hours of subsidised child care<inline font-style="italic">.</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">4. Ensure provisions are made to ensure casual and seasonal workers are not disadvantaged by the activity test by including appropriate averaging and transitionary arrangements, and including a six week 'exceptional circumstances' exemption; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">To ensure families with casual or irregular work are not disadvantaged by the activity test and to ensure their children receive continuity of care, parents in this circumstance will be able to estimate their hours of activity over a three month period.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Current provisions in the Bill ensure continuity of care when parents experience a sudden change in circumstance that affects their entitlement without the need for a six week exemption period.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">These provisions include:</para></quote>
<list>The Additional Child Care Subsidy (Temporary Financial Hardship) that will provide short‑term increased child care fee assistance to families who are experiencing significant financial stress due to exceptional circumstances. Families experiencing temporary financial hardship will be eligible to receive a subsidy equal to the actual fee charged, up to 120 per cent of the Child Care Subsidy hourly fee cap, for up to 100 hours per fortnight, for a maximum of 13 weeks per event. Families will not be required to meet the activity test during this period.</list>
<quote><para class="block">Individuals' eligibility for this payment can be backdated up to 28 days (from the date of application), in recognition that family circumstances may change with little or no notice.</para></quote>
<list>The capacity for the Secretary of the Department of Education and Training to make a case-by-case determination of an individual's activity test result based on exceptional circumstances, which could be more than 100 hours of subsidy per fortnight. Exceptional circumstances could include, but would not be limited to, families impacted by significant trauma, the short-term incapacity of the individual or a member of their family, or where the individual, their partner or their child is affected by domestic violence.</list>
<list>An activity test which recognises a broad range of activities (including actively looking for work and volunteering) to help families maintain access to subsidised care where their usual activity ceases unexpectedly.</list>
<quote><para class="block">5. The Government should provide modelling showing the longer term impact of the proposed benchmark price on the proportion of ECEC costs borne by parents and its impact on out of pocket costs. The Government should structure the child care subsidy more effectively to limit out of pocket costs for parents.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The new Child Care Subsidy has been designed to place downwards pressure on child care fees to improve affordability for families, through an hourly fee cap.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Fee assistance payments under the Child Care Subsidy are based on a percentage of the actual fees charged, up to the relevant percentage of an hourly fee cap, with the level of the cap varying based on the service type used. The hourly fee caps effectively set a 'benchmark price' from which Australian families have a reference point to hold providers accountable and from which they can expect prices should not dramatically exceed. This measure is necessary to ensure that the increased level of fee assistance offered by the Package does not accelerate fee increases, as we saw when the previous government increased the Child Care Rebate from 30 per cent of fees charged to 50 per cent of fees charged, with no constraints on the fees charged by centres. In addition, as part of simplifying the child care system and ensuring services can operate in a manner that best suits the families who use them, the Bill will reduce regulatory requirements currently applying to child care services, including the hours per day and days per week a service must open. This will mean that services and providers will be able to consider flexible options that better suit their children and families, as well as their business models, which will contribute to affordable and flexible child care options.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Further, Labor Senators recommend that the government:</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">6. Expand the Explanatory Memorandum to address key definitions (particularly with regard to abuse and neglect) pertaining to subsidies and payments;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The ability to define key terms (such as those related to "abuse and neglect" and "risk" for Additional Child Care Subsidy (at risk / child wellbeing)) in subordinate legislation was to allow for further consultation with the sector and other key stakeholders. Rather than pre-empt the outcome of ongoing consultation, the Government will table the Rules following the passage of legislation, in line with legislative process.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">During 2016, the Department of Education and Training consulted the sector on all Minister's and Secretary's Rules which are proposed to be made at this time. The Government will continue to take sector feedback into consideration as the Rules are finalised. This is further elaborated in the Government's response to the more recent Senate Inquiry.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">7. Extend the Ministerial Advisory Council on Child Care and Early Learning to include key stakeholders and peak bodies in the industry;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Ministerial Advisory Council (MAC) on Child Care and Early Learning already consists of representatives of national peak bodies as well as experts in early childhood development and pedagogy, and the child care and early learning sector. MAC members' appointments were recently extended to the middle of 2017.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Given the diverse membership on MAC, as well as the range of other consultations with the sector (see Attachment A), the Government is confident it has received comprehensive feedback on all elements of the Package.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">8. Review internationally recognised research on the returns on investment that public expenditure on early learning brings, ensure ECEC in Australia is in line with OECD best practice, and make sure levels of investment in early childhood are consistent with the best outcomes for children and the community; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australia performs well in its funding and delivery of early childhood education and care compared to other OECD countries, noting that the extent of public funding for early childhood education and care in Australia is not well represented in OECD data. This is because funding delivered to parents through fee subsidies is often reported as a 'private expense' in OECD data when in fact the Government provides generous subsidies that are targeted to families who need it most.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Package reflects extensive consultation and expert analysis over several years and has been developed taking into account the significant evidence base developed by the Productivity Commission through its Inquiry into Childcare and Early Childhood Learning, including consideration of workforce participation, early childhood educational outcomes and relevant international models. This is why the objective of the Government's significant investment in the Package is to provide parents with more choice and opportunity to work, and children with high quality early education.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In addition, to understand the impact of the Package over time, there will be ongoing monitoring and evaluation of the changes to the child care system. The Government's framework for evaluation of the Child Care Package includes a post‑implementation review to commence in 2018-19 and a subsequent impact evaluation. The evaluation will build on the previously undertaken activities of monitoring, data collection, baseline data and the post implementation review to assess the effect of the changes on the community.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">9. Immediately release to the public all data, research and evidence used in developing the legislation—including complete details of the impact the changes will have on families - so that the Senate can make a more informed assessment of its impact on all Australian families.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government has provided significant detail on the modelling and assumptions used to develop the Package and details of the impact the changes will have on families. This includes an impact analysis of the Package at Chapter 5 of the Regulatory Impact Statement. Section 5.3, in particular, analyses the impact on families, child care service providers, communities and governments, and an assessment of the Package's effectiveness at achieving the objectives of the reform. A summary of that information, as it relates to families, is provided in the submission to the inquiry made by the Department of Education and Training at paragraphs 137 to 142.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendations contained in the Dissenting Report by the Australian Greens</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">1. The Australian Greens recommend that the activity test be amended to include an additional amount of base level subsidised childcare for all families that fall within the 0-8 hours of activity, so that all children have access to a minimum of 24 hours of subsidised child care per week.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The entry point to the activity test is set at a very low base - at least 8 hours of activity a fortnight results in access to up to 36 hours of subsidised child care a fortnight; more than 16 hours of activity a fortnight results in access to up to 72 hours of subsidised care a fortnight; and that more than 48 hours of activity a fortnight results in access to up to 100 hours of subsidised care a fortnight.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">A broad range of activities will meet the activity test requirements, including paid work, looking for work, volunteering or study. People on paid and unpaid parental leave who are returning to work would also meet the activity test. To ensure families with casual or irregular work are not disadvantaged by the activity test and to ensure their children receive continuity of care, parents in this circumstance will be able to estimate their hours of activity over a three month period.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We know children from disadvantaged backgrounds benefit most from quality early childhood education and care, and that's why we're providing additional support to those who need it most. Families with incomes below around $65,000 (in 2017 terms) who do not meet the activity test will be able to access up to 24 hours per fortnight of subsidised care —equivalent to two weekly six-hour sessions—at the highest 85 per cent rate of subsidy (this is an increase on the current 72 per cent). The removal of minimum hours per day and days per week opening requirements will allow service providers' to deliver these hours over two sessions per week.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government is also considering the sector's proposal to increase the number of subsidised hours for families with low incomes (below around $65,000 in 2017 terms) who do not meet the activity test from 24 to 30 hours per fortnight as part of its negotiations and deliberations in preparation for Parliamentary debate.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">2. The Australian Greens recommend that an adequately flexible reporting grace period be adopted that allows all casual workers, part-time workers with irregular hours or people who lose their jobs to estimate their expected activity and childcare needs, so as not to be disadvantaged by the activity test.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Refer to the response provided to Labor Senator's Dissenting Report, Recommendation 4, above.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">3. The Australian Greens recommend that further detailed clarification be provided as to how the Additional Child Care Subsidy will meet the needs of vulnerable children, in particular children in remote and regional Australia, and Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander children.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The new Child Care Safety Net will assist disadvantaged communities and vulnerable and at‑risk children, including children in remote and regional Australia and Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander children, and their families to address barriers in accessing child care, while encouraging parents to enter or re-enter the workforce. In particular, the Additional Child Care Subsidy component of the Child Care Safety Net will provide targeted additional fee assistance to families and children facing barriers in accessing affordable child care, including:</para></quote>
<list>children at risk of serious abuse or neglect</list>
<list>grandparents on income support who are the primary caregivers of their grandchildren</list>
<list>families experiencing temporary financial hardship</list>
<list>low income families transitioning to work from income support</list>
<list>families with an income below around $65,000 (in 2017 terms) where the family does not meet the activity test.</list>
<quote><para class="block">Since the time of the Committee's report, the Department of Education and Training has undertaken consultation with the sector on the proposed detail of all Additional Child Care Subsidy payments, and will continue to engage with the sector as policy settings for these payments are finalised.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">For further detail on specific support available to services currently funded through the Budget Based Funded program, please refer to the response provided to Labor Senator's Dissenting Report, Recommendation 2, above.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">4. The Australian Greens recommend an amendment to include mechanisms for increasing childcare places where vacancy rates are critically low, creating barriers to parents being able to find affordable care.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government does not intervene directly in the child care market. Elements of the Package are aimed at encouraging services to be more flexible in how they provide care and child care places to both encourage more providers and to free up potential places in current services.</para></quote>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>72</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Membership</title>
          <page.no>72</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:37</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>00AOP</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The President has received letters requesting changes in the membership of committees.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:37</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That senators be discharged from and appointed to committees in accordance with the documents circulated in the chamber.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">The document read as follows—</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Education and Employment Legislation Committee—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Appointed—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Substitute member: Senator Rhiannon to replace Senator Hanson-Young for the committee’s inquiry into the provisions of the Building and Construction Industry (Improving Productivity) Amendment Bill 2017</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Participating member: Senator Hanson-Young</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Environment and Communications References Committee—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Appointed—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Substitute member: Senator Smith to replace Senator Paterson for the committee’s inquiry into Aboriginal rock art of the Burrup Peninsula</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Participating member: Senator Paterson</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">National Integrity Commission—Select Committee—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Appointed—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Senators Collins and Watt</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Participating members: Senators Bilyk, Brown, Cameron, Carr, Chisholm, Dastyari, Dodson, Farrell, Gallacher. Gallagher, Ketter, Kitching, Lines, Marshall, McAllister, McCarthy, Moore, O’Neill, Polley, Pratt, Singh, Sterle, Urquhart and Wong</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Red Tape—Select Committee—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Discharged—Senator Hinch</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Appointed—Participating member: Senator Hinch.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BILLS</title>
        <page.no>72</page.no>
        <type>BILLS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Interactive Gambling Amendment Bill 2016, Migration Amendment (Visa Revalidation and Other Measures) Bill 2016</title>
          <page.no>72</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" style="" background="" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word">
            <p>
              <a type="Bill" href="r5755">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Interactive Gambling Amendment Bill 2016</span>
                </p>
              </a>
            </p>
            <a type="Bill" href="r5751">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Migration Amendment (Visa Revalidation and Other Measures) Bill 2016</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>First Reading</title>
            <page.no>72</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:38</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>These bills are being introduced together. After debate on the motion for the second reading has been adjourned, I shall move a motion to have the bills listed separately on the <inline font-style="italic">Notice Paper</inline>. I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That these bills may proceed without formalities, may be taken together and be now read a first time.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bills read a first time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>72</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:38</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That these bills be now read a second time.</para></quote>
<para>I seek leave to have the second reading speeches incorporated in <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline>.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">The speeches read as follows—</inline></para>
<quote><para class="block">INTERACTIVE GAMBLING AMENDMENT BILL 2016</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Online gambling has grown with consumers moving away from traditional gambling products to betting online using smartphones, tablets and other digital devices. In 2014, $2.4 billion was spent on online gambling by Australians – which was double the amount ten years earlier. Australia's high rate of gambling expenditure and strong adoption of digital technologies makes it imperative that there is a strong and enforceable regulatory framework to protect Australians from the adverse effects of illegal online gambling services.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">To support this objective, in April this year, the Government announced it would implement 18 of the 19 recommendations in the 2015 Illegal Offshore Wagering Review in a three staged process.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Interactive Gambling Amendment Bill is the first stage of the Government's process to implement the recommendations in the Review. It will complement the other stages to establish a national consumer protection framework to minimise problem gambling and consult on other disruptive measures to stop offshore operators from providing illegal interactive gambling services to Australians.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Key findings of the Illegal Offshore Wagering Review</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Review found that the amount of money being spent on illegal wagering services could be as high as $400 million annually with a further $100 million in lost taxation revenue and product fees. Previous estimates found the total amount of money spent on all illegal interactive gambling services was close to $1 billion annually.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Offshore gambling has detrimental effects on the Australian wagering, racing and sporting industries, problem and at‑risk gamblers, consumers and government. Offshore gambling operators do not pay Australian taxes, racing or sporting fees; they do not share information regarding suspicious betting activity with law enforcement or sporting bodies which risks the integrity of Australian sport; they offer gambling services prohibited under Australian law; they can be used for money laundering and other criminal activities; and they provide minimal to no harm minimisation and consumer protection controls which poses a threat to problem and at-risk gamblers.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Review showed the rate of problem gambling is higher among interactive gamblers compared to gamblers more generally − 2.7 per cent of interactive gamblers are problem gamblers compared to 0.9 per cent of all gamblers. The devastating effects of problem gambling is not just felt by the gambler but also his or her family, friends, colleagues and the community.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Review concluded that the aim of governments should be to reduce the scope of illegal offshore gambling activity and control the associated harms through a range of disruptive and deterrent measures and strong enforcement of regulation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Minimal enforcement of the Interactive Gambling Act</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The key piece of legislation to protect Australians against illegal online gambling services is the Commonwealth's Interactive Gambling Act. The Actprohibits the provision and advertising of prohibited interactive gambling services to persons in Australia.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Stakeholders informed the Review that the existing approach to enforcement of the Interactive Gambling Act was insufficient to deter offshore operators from providing prohibited online gambling services to Australians. There have been no prosecutions under the Interactive Gambling Act since its inception in 2001 despite a considerable number of complaints made by Australians in regards to illegal online gambling services.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The borderless nature of the internet enables Australians to access hundreds of illegal online gambling sites on their computers and smartphones. Stakeholders assert that offshore operators ignore the provisions of the IGA because they are not well enforced.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Criminal prosecution is considered likely to be unsuccessful or ineffective due to the competing priorities of the Australian Federal Police, uncertainty around the legality of services under the Interactive Gambling Act, evidence requirements and the offshore location of gambling operators.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Some of these challenges were highlighted in 2015 when a number of Australian licensed wagering operators launched 'click to call' in-play betting services. The ACMA assessed these services as potentially a prohibited interactive gambling service and referred the matter to the Australian Federal Police for investigation. The Australian Federal Police declined to investigate due to competing priorities and ambiguity around the legality of these services under the Interactive Gambling Act.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill sets out to address these challenges. It will clarify the law regarding illegal online gambling services and empower the ACMA by strengthening the enforcement mechanisms under the Interactive Gambling Act.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Reforms to the Interactive Gambling Act</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill will prohibit a person providing regulated interactive gambling services to Australians unless the person holds a licence under the law of an Australian State or Territory. This amendment will clarify the licensing requirements for interactive gambling services in Australia and will provide a simple to establish key criterion for enforcement agencies when investigating whether to take action against unlicensed services. It is expected that reputable gambling organisations will obtain a licence in Australia or cease providing illegal services.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The reforms will introduce a civil penalty regime to be enforced by the ACMA which will allow the ACMA to be responsible for the entire complaint handling process from receipt to enforcement. The ACMA will be able to issue formal warnings and infringement notices, and seek civil penalties and injunctions. This amendment will allow for a quicker and more focused response as formal investigation or prosecution processes will not depend upon the priorities of other agencies.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">These penalties will also apply to any person that supports the provision of illegal interactive gambling services to Australians. Criminal offence provisions have been retained in the Interactive Gambling Act to allow the ACMA to refer complaints to the Australian Federal Police for more serious cases.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill will prohibit 'click to call' in-play betting services. These services allow consumers to place a large number of bets in a short period of time which can lead to serious gambling problems. The Government is committed to closing down these services as they undermine the intent of the IGA to limit the scope of problem gambling in Australia.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The reforms will enable the ACMA to notify the Department of Immigration and Border Protection of the names of directors or principals of offending gambling services so they can be placed on the Movement Alert List and any travel to Australia can be disrupted.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">These enforcement actions will be combined with a number of measures to build relationships with international regulators and raise awareness of Australian gambling laws and the risks associated with illegal gambling services.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Firstly, the ACMA will be able to notify international regulators of information relating to interactive gambling services. The offshore location of many gambling operators makes it difficult to enforce the IGA. Establishing productive relationships with international regulators to raise awareness of Australian gambling laws and receive assistance in any enforcement actions will assist the efforts of the ACMA to enforce the IGA in relation to foreign entities.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Secondly, some offshore gambling websites deliberately target Australian consumers by using Australian imagery and colloquialisms. Many consumers are unaware that these sites are not licensed in Australia and that there is limited legal recourse if they run into any difficulties obtaining winnings or deposits from these operators. The Bill will establish a register to be published on the ACMA website to raise awareness of wagering services that are licensed in Australia to ensure that persons looking to gamble will not inadvertently use an offshore site.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The combination of clearer legislation, stronger enforcement measures and awareness raising activities will assist in ensuring Australians are protected from illegal gambling services.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Other related amendments to the Interactive Gambling Act</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill contains related amendments to complement the ACMA's increased enforcement role, including to simplify and streamline the complaints handling and investigation process to remove mandatory requirements to refer matters to the police and enable the ACMA to handle the entire process from receipt of complaints to enforcement, similar to its complaints handling and enforcement role in relation to other legislation. The Bill also contains provisions to clarify the legality of services provided in licensed gambling and wagering venues and for the development of a legislative instrument to determine what constitutes a sporting event for the purposes of in-play betting under the IGA.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">As mentioned, this Bill is the first stage of a three stage process the Government is taking to implement the recommendations in the Review.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government is working with State and Territory governments to establish a national consumer protection framework. It is imperative if we are to protect Australians from offshore gambling providers, we must ensure that proper protections exist in our own industry. The Government is also consulting with internet service providers and financial payment organisations on technological options to further disrupt the access of illegal offshore gambling services.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Conclusion</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">For too long, the Interactive Gambling Act has struggled in its role of keeping Australians, in particular problem and at‑risk gamblers, protected from the risks of illegal online gambling services.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">A combination of clearer laws, an active regulator and stronger enforcement measures will send a clear message to operators that Australia is serious about compliance of its gambling laws. Whilst there will remain practical and legal challenges in prosecuting overseas entities, these measures are expected to reduce the provision of prohibited interactive gambling services to Australians.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I would like to thank the Hon Barry O'Farrell for leading the Review and the many stakeholders across the wagering, racing and sporting industries, academia, responsible gambling organisations, consumers and government who provided their views to inform the development of this Bill.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I commend this Bill and look forward to implementing the next stages of the Government's response to ensure Australia has a strong and enforceable regulatory framework for online gambling.</para></quote>
<para>Debate adjourned.</para>
<para>Ordered that the bills be listed on the <inline font-style="italic">Notice Paper</inline> as separate orders of the day.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>MOTIONS</title>
        <page.no>74</page.no>
        <type>MOTIONS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Public Transport</title>
          <page.no>74</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:39</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PRATT</name>
    <name.id>I0T</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>At the request of Senator Gallagher, I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate condemns the failure of the Turnbull Government to invest in public transport infrastructure across Australia.</para></quote>
<para>Here were are some eight months into the second term of the coalition government and, in that time, our Prime Minister, Malcolm Turnbull, has not sought to commence a single new major public transport project anywhere in the country. We all had high hopes that Malcolm Turnbull would differentiate himself from Abbott's appalling record on this front, but instead investment in our public transport systems coming from the Commonwealth continues to languish.</para>
<para>When Labor were in government, however, we increased federal spending on transport infrastructure from $141 to $269 a person. We committed to more public transport than all our predecessors since Federation combined. This has been incredibly important for our nation because we cannot have sustainable cities and quality family lives when people are stuck on congested roads.</para>
<para>In fact, the Barnett government relied on federal Labor when we were last in government to put money into the sinking of the railway line between Northbridge and the city of Perth, and we are just beginning to see the benefits now of this fantastic investment in the city. It has been thanks to the planning and investments coming from the Commonwealth that we have been able to see this project start to come to fruition. Without that money, this project would not have happened and our city would be much the poorer. The project really highlights the significance of investment in public transport, and this is exactly what WA is now missing out on.</para>
<para>What we had instead from the Liberal government when they came into government is that they scrapped all funding for public transport in our nation to the tune of $4 billion. From my home town of Perth where this investment is sorely needed, the Commonwealth has withdrawn $500 million that Labor allocated for public transport when we were in government. This is despite the appalling fact—and I know you will understand this, Madam Deputy President—that figures show that Perth is set to have seven of Australia's 10 most congested roads within 15 years. The Bureau of Infrastructure, Transport and Regional Economics says that 50 to 65 per cent of people are spending more than 45 minutes commuting to work every single day. That could be more than 10,000 hours per year stuck on the road because we have a government that will not invest in public transport around our country, 10,000 hours per year of people missing out on time with their families because the Liberals will not invest in public transport.</para>
<para>There has been no investment by the Turnbull government in public transport in Western Australia. There has been no investment by the Barnett government in public transport in WA. What we have here is both the Turnbull and Barnett governments taking Western Australians for granted. We have here a very wrong set of priorities. The WA Liberal and National government's key infrastructure project is, I am very sorry to say, a $1.9 billion freight link that is in fact a road to nowhere. It is a road whose construction is destroying important wetlands in areas of biodiversity. These are very precious areas that are much needed within our urban environment. It is a road that is destroying the homes of animals and wiping out endangered flora.</para>
<para>Colin Barnett, the premier, has argued that the freight link is to facilitate the passage of trucks to Fremantle Port. But the simple fact is that the road does not go to the Fremantle Port. If that were not so terrible it would almost be funny. The road terminates before it gets anywhere close to the Fremantle port. In fact, what we know about the Fremantle port is that it is already very much close to capacity, and what the state really needs is a southern port that fits with the state's future infrastructure needs and enables the state's economic development.</para>
<para>Instead, what we have is this appalling road to nowhere. The Freight Link has been an absolute debacle from the get go. It is a terrible example of the Barnett government's mismanagement of Western Australia. So while we have Colin Barnett, Lisa Harvey and their mates in the Turnbull government sitting back and doing nothing about public transport in WA, what we have in the Mark McGowan Labor government is a real plan. We have a plan to invest in METRONET to connect our suburbs around Perth and to help fix congestion on our roads. It includes the introduction of a circle line, revolutionising Perth's rail system, providing the first east-west rail link so that commuters do not have to travel into the CBD to get out to other suburbs. It is an incredibly important plan. It includes completing the Forrestfield-Airport line, building a train line to Ellenbrook and, finally, keeping the promise that the Liberal government broke time and time again, building a Yanchep line to the north and a Byford line to the east as well as a new train station at Karnup in the south.</para>
<para>It is a comprehensive plan, but it will need investment from the Commonwealth government. The plan involves fixing dangerous level crossings on the Armadale, Midland and Fremantle lines. With that, with METRONET, Western Australia will have the world-class public transport system that it deserves. It is smart, affordable and achievable and it will bring Perth in line with some of the best cities in the world when it comes to public transport.</para>
<para>These are issues that the Commonwealth government can no longer be missing in action on. The plan is not only good for fixing congestion; it will create more than 10,000 jobs for Western Australians in our state. It will also see local manufacturing of railcars in Western Australia, increasing our local manufacturing of railcars to 50 per cent, which is a massive increase from the current two per cent under the Barnett Liberal government. This is incredibly important because the decline in the economy in Western Australia has seen many of our state's young people missing out on apprenticeships. We need this infrastructure and these jobs for the future of our state.</para>
<para>But the plan does require federal funding and federal investment for WA. So what we really need to see is the Commonwealth government diverting that money from the Freight Link, because we know a Mark McGowan government will not go ahead with it. The Commonwealth government needs to divert that money from the Freight Link and invest it in our public transport system, just as it did for the state of Victoria when state Labor won government there and the state made infrastructure and planning changes.</para>
<para>Those of us from WA Labor here in this place and the other place will not back down on this question. We will be fighting the Turnbull government to make sure that you fund our infrastructure projects in WA. We will fight to make sure that the Turnbull government invests in our public transport to ease congestion in WA. We want to fight the Turnbull government to make sure you play your part in making METRONET happen for the people of Western Australia. Why? Because it is a good plan. It is a necessary plan and it is the only real plan that is going to reduce congestion in our cities.</para>
<para>I know that if the Turnbull government takes money away from Western Australia because they do not support the reinvestment of the Perth Freight Link money into our public transport system, if they do not act on congestion problems that are becoming uncontrollable in our state, then they will lose seats in Western Australia, because voters in Western Australia's outer suburbs are angry. They are angry about the lack of investment in infrastructure and public transport in our state. They are sick and tired of being left behind by Liberal governments here in Canberra and over in WA.</para>
<para>What we have here is a real choice on 11 March. It is a choice between a tired Liberal government that has no plan for Western Australia, or a fresh approach with the Mark McGowan Labor government. Labor will invest in our future and in our public transport system. I am confident that we in this place will be able to fight the Turnbull government for a better deal for our state.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:50</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SMITH</name>
    <name.id>241710</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Is that it? Is that the first contribution by the Labor Party this afternoon on their notice of motion in regard to a lack of investment in public transport infrastructure—they allege—by the Turnbull government? We did not hear one convincing bit of evidence. There was lots of rhetoric and lots of wishful thinking about the future of a possible Labor government in Western Australia. But there was nothing convincing in Senator Pratt's contribution this afternoon. I hope that other Labor senators will rise to the occasion and at least put their hearts into the motion that Senator Gallagher moved.</para>
<para>I am surprised, I have to confess, about Labor's choice of subject for this afternoon's motion. Here is Senator Sterle—it will be interesting to see Senator Sterle's contribution this afternoon. It will be interesting to see whether he is tempted to digress into the rhetoric of Mark McGowan and future Labor governments that they hope for.</para>
<para>I am very surprised at Labor's choice of a discussion topic this afternoon in the Australian Senate. I think it is very odd that the Australian Labor Party in this place would be looking to talk about public transport this week. I will be particularly interested if any Labor senators from Queensland are planning to take part in this afternoon's debate, given the week that the Labor government there has experienced, specifically in relation to public transport. The veracity of their claim around poor public transport infrastructure spending by the Turnbull government will be tested if there are any Labor senators from Queensland that participate in the debate this afternoon.</para>
<para>It is an odd choice of motion for another reason—and that one is a pretty simple one. The evidence just does not demonstrate a lack of investment in public transport by the Turnbull government. To accuse this government of the lack of care, concern or investment in public transport infrastructure requires one to live in a fantasy world because it is just not reflected in the reality. I will demonstrate that with not rhetoric but facts. Quite frankly, it is hard to think of a federal government that has done more for public transport infrastructure than the Turnbull government. That is not a difficult claim for someone like me to make.</para>
<para class="italic">Senator Sterle interjecting—</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SMITH</name>
    <name.id>241710</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Sterle, I hope you will sit through my whole presentation because I am going to put the facts and the evidence on the table. That will be your challenge—to put the facts and the evidence on the table.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Sterle</name>
    <name.id>e68</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I am riveted, Deano!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SMITH</name>
    <name.id>241710</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>This historical investment in public transport infrastructure has arisen in no small part because, after seemingly endless stuff-ups and delays under hopelessly incompetent Labor state governments, the community has developed an expectation now that the federal government will be involved. Now, if you will permit me to be brutally honest for a brief moment: that does not sit particularly well with my very, very strong federalist instincts. I think it is a bit rich for Labor state governments, in particular, to now expect the federal government to be doing their job for them, especially in the space of public transport.</para>
<para>I also note that this motion comes from Senator Gallagher, the former Chief Minister of the ACT, which is not a jurisdiction renowned for its exceptional public transport system. And I might add that, after some 16 years of unbroken Labor government, I find that deeply ironic. Of course, there is now a light rail project being constructed on the north side of Canberra. I can only hope for the sake of this city's residents it does not suffer the same usual problems of major projects managed—or, in this case, mismanaged—by Labor governments. It is also worth noting that the Turnbull government has provided $67 million to the ACT to assist with the construction of that project. Perhaps that might have slipped Senator Gallagher's mind when she presented the motion this afternoon.</para>
<para>Nonetheless, our system has evolved to the point where there is an expectation now that the federal government will be involved in funding public transport infrastructure projects. That being the case, this federal government has been more than willing to step up to support the development of public transport infrastructure. No matter which part of Australia you live in, there is ample evidence to back that up.</para>
<para>So let's look at the evidence—let's look at some of the facts. Between now and 2018-19, the Turnbull government is investing some $1.9 billion on urban passenger rail projects, despite the fact that it is primarily a state government responsibility. Let's look at South Australia, a jurisdiction also afflicted with a long-term Labor government so incompetent that it literally cannot keep the lights on. I send my greetings to those in South Australia who may be watching or listening to this debate, but, sadly, we cannot be confident that they are able to turn on their televisions and listen to their radios as a result of the incompetence. In South Australia, the Turnbull government is investing $43 million to extend the Tonsley rail line to the Flinders medical precinct. In the state of Queensland, this government has made a contribution of $95 million to stage two of the Gold Coast Light Rail extension project. That will see the line extended by 7.3 kilometres from the Gold Coast University Hospital to connect with the heavy rail network at the northern end of the Gold Coast, at Helensvale, with new stations at Parkwood and Parkwood East, and a new heavy rail/light rail interchange at Helensvale.</para>
<para>In South Australia, in Queensland, Senator Gallagher's motion that the Turnbull government is not investing in public transport infrastructure has proven to be wrong. Importantly, for Queenslanders and for others travelling to Australia for the Commonwealth Games, this public transport infrastructure will, of course, be very, very important. In addition to this, Queensland is also getting from the Turnbull government $10 million to further investigate urban regeneration opportunities and funding and financing options, and assess the integration of Cross River Rail with the council's Brisbane Metro Subway System. It is very, very clear that Queenslanders are benefiting from the Turnbull government's investment in public infrastructure.</para>
<para>Turning to New South Wales: through the asset recycling initiative the Turnbull government is contributing over $1.6 billion to the Sydney Metro, Australia's largest public transport initiative currently under construction, which, when completed, will be Australia's first fully-fledged rapid transit system. On top of this, in New South Wales there is $98.4 million for the Western Sydney rail upgrade, $78.3 million for the Parramatta Light Rail project and $26 million to support development of a rail link to the new Western Sydney Airport.</para>
<para>In Victoria, the Turnbull government is contributing $10 million to the development of the Melbourne Metro project, which includes five new underground rail stations. I know, Senator Rice, you would prefer people to walk! I know you prefer people to walk, but people need to get to work, they need to shift their families around they need to get jobs, and freights are important.</para>
<para class="italic">Senator Rice interjecting —</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SMITH</name>
    <name.id>241710</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I know you prefer people to walk or to sit under a tree.</para>
<para>In my own state of Western Australia—which is where Senator Pratt left her very, very modest contribution to the afternoon debate—the federal government is contributing $490 million to the Forrestfield-Airport rail link, which is an absolutely critical project for Perth and for the entire state of Western Australia. And I should point out that that construction work is well underway—it has already started; it is well underway—after careful planning and implementation of those plans.</para>
<para>Of course, that money came as partial compensation for our low share of GST revenue.</para>
<para class="italic">Senator Sterle interjecting—</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SMITH</name>
    <name.id>241710</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Together with my Liberal colleagues in this place, I am very proud to have played a role in securing it—which brings me to an important point, Senator Sterle. Your challenge to Mark McGowan is to ask him what he is going to do about GST distribution. And what is Bill Shorten going to do about GST distribution? If the government changes, that issue falls heavily on what he is going to do. What is he going to do?</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Sterle</name>
    <name.id>e68</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I would say probably a lot more than what Barnett has done.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SMITH</name>
    <name.id>241710</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Through you, Mr Acting Deputy President, I ask Senator Searle: what is Mark McGowan going to do about GST distribution? I think that is the answer—silence; nothing.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Sterle</name>
    <name.id>e68</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Do you want me to answer?</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SMITH</name>
    <name.id>241710</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>That is his big challenge. I will be watching closely, Senator Sterle; I will be watching very, very closely.</para>
<para>It is worth noting that Bill Shorten has never revealed his own plan to address WA's GST shortfall. I suspect we all know why: he is utterly beholden to his Labor mates in South Australia, who continue to fight against sensible reform that would be in the interests of Western Australians and indeed, I argue, in the interests of Australia's economic productivity.</para>
<para>It is a marked contrast to the approach from WA Labor, which went to the last state election, in 2013, promising to build an airport station that was located a couple of kilometres from the airport terminal. I know you remember that, Senator Sterle.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Sterle</name>
    <name.id>e68</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>No, I don't know what you are talking about.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SMITH</name>
    <name.id>241710</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>You do remember that, don't you? A railway station that was not even located where the people are! This demonstrates a consistent problem with the WA Labor Party: they like to talk big. They have a nice, colourful map and a few logos for their projects, and the spin gets underway. They hoodwink Western Australian voters, and then of course, in the end, Western Australian voters are left with nothing. But scratch the surface and, time after time, they have the detail badly wrong. That is something that Western Australians will be bearing in mind as we approach the state election on Saturday, 11 March.</para>
<para>While on the subject of transport infrastructure in my home state of Western Australia, it would be remiss of me not to mention the brazenly irresponsible decision of the WA Labor Party to oppose Roe 8, which is a critical element of the Perth Freight Link project, in a cynical attempt to win a few preferences from the Australian Greens in advance of the election. The Labor Party has bought into this ridiculous notion that we have to make a choice between road and rail. That is simply a false choice. We need both. It will come as news to the Labor Party, but not everything can move around by rail alone. It is not a perfect solution. That is why Roe 8 and the recently announced Roe 9 tunnel are absolutely critical to meeting Perth's freight needs.</para>
<para>It is odd that the Labor Party are constantly talking about the need to create jobs—and they are right; job creation is critical in Western Australia—but they never want to actually build the road infrastructure that will deliver it. Instead, they want to get together with the Greens and pursue an ideological fetish for passenger rail. Roe 8 and Roe 9 are critical projects that will both help WA to diversify its economy and make it easier to export our goods to growing markets in Asia. Roe 8 and Roe 9 will remove nearly 7,000 heavy vehicles per day from Perth's southern urban arterial road network. This will make for a safer and more reliable road journey into and out of Fremantle. Together, they will also allow heavy vehicles and other road users to bypass the 14 sets of traffic lights now on the Leach Highway and Stock Road, creating a safer environment for all road users. Moreover, the project is anticipated to create 1,900 direct jobs, with a total on-site workforce of over 6½ thousand during the construction phase. This is something that WA Labor—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Sterle</name>
    <name.id>e68</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Bollocks!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SMITH</name>
    <name.id>241710</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>You do not believe that any jobs will be created from the Roe 8 and Roe 9 projects? You do not believe that any jobs will be created?</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>00AOP</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Sterle, on a point of order?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Sterle</name>
    <name.id>e68</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I am. Senator Smith is misleading the Senate here. I agree jobs will be created, but nowhere near the make-believe figure that the WA Liberal government mentions.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>00AOP</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you for that, but that is not a point of order. Resume your seat. Senator Smith, you have the call.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SMITH</name>
    <name.id>241710</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you for paying attention to my contribution this afternoon, Senator Sterle; I do appreciate that. But job creation, of course, is very, very important to the Western Australian economy. With 1,900 direct jobs and almost 6½ thousand other jobs during the construction phases of Roe 8 and Roe 9, that has to be good news for Western Australians and for the Western Australian economy. It is a very confusing stance that WA Labor have. It is one taken simply because they have convinced themselves that there is more virtue in rail projects than there is in road projects, and that is just not true.</para>
<para>At the beginning of my contribution, I said that it was very curious that the Labor Party had chosen this week to raise the matter of public transport, given the problems currently being experienced by the Labor government in Queensland. I just want to have a look, briefly, at what has happened in recent times in Queensland. Since the second part of last year, it is fair to say that Queensland's passenger rail system has been a basket case—and that is probably putting it charitably. On 21 October last year, around 100 passenger rail services across south-east Queensland had to be cancelled due to a shortage of drivers. On Christmas Day, almost two-thirds of scheduled services had to be cancelled for the same reason. This left many people who were trying to spend Christmas Day with loved ones simply stranded.</para>
<para>These shortages occurred because of the bungled implementation of a new timetable, not due to a lack of investment from the Turnbull government. The federal government does not schedule train services. The federal government does not recruit train drivers. Passengers were not left stranded on rail station platforms across south-east Queensland on Christmas Day because of inaction on the part of the federal government. This is something that has occurred because of the manifest ineptitude of the Queensland state Labor government. I note that the minister for transport in that government finally fell on his sword earlier this week after a damning report into that disaster, and is it any wonder? Just listen to this:</para>
<quote><para class="block">There was also a 7 per cent drop in train crew productivity due to more restrictive crewing rules agreed between unions and QR's—</para></quote>
<para>Queensland Rail's—</para>
<quote><para class="block">management.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The supply of qualified drivers declined by 4 per cent over the same period, reaching 471 drivers in December 2016, due to QR preferring to operate with a 5-10 per cent undersupply of crew, driven by a practice of providing overtime opportunities and restrictions on the ability to recruit externally.</para></quote>
<para>So a sweetheart deal between the unions and Queensland Rail, a Queensland government body, limited the ability for new drivers to be recruited.</para>
<para>Of course, we all know which side of politics is beholden to the Australian trade union movement in our country—that is the Labor Party; no surprises. The report went on to recommend that negotiations with unions address the restrictive rules regarding continuous working time, meal breaks and rostering processes. I wonder what prospect there is that a Queensland Labor government which cannot survive without the political muscle supplied by its union allies will act on that very simple and clear recommendation? My fear is that Queensland commuters may be experiencing delays for some time to come, if they have to rely on the Labor Party to do the right thing and put the public interest before the unions' interests.</para>
<para>Of course, it is also the Turnbull government that has established the Smart Cities and Suburbs Program, and public transport is an absolutely critical element within that. This government recognises than an ad hoc approach to the development of cities is no longer viable. In today's economy, our cities must compete in order to grow and prosper. That competition should foster important collaboration. The government is combining smart policy, smart investment and smart technology to ensure our cities are more liveable, more productive and more prosperous. The Smart Cities Plan means more affordable housing, new jobs closer to homes, better transport and more liveable cities. To support the Smart Cities Plan, we announced $50 million to accelerate planning and development on major urban transport projects and the establishment of an Infrastructure Financing Unit to broker commercial deals with the private sector so that we can deliver more congestion-busting infrastructure sooner. This will make our cities more liveable through better coordination, integrated planning and targeted infrastructure investment. Smart Cities creates a shared vision for cities and a plan for governments, businesses and communities to coordinate their actions and investments to achieve agreed targets.</para>
<para>This motion before us is from the Labor Party, and so, in the very brief time available to me it would be remiss of me not to reflect on their record in government in this area. And I have to say that there is not a lot to say about Labor's record of investment in public transport infrastructure. Before and during the 2016 election campaign, the Labor Party committed to funding a number of urban rail projects through its $10 billion 'concrete bank' facility, with the balance apparently to come from the Building Australia Fund. However, that money is already fully allocated to other projects, and the Labor Party have not identified what projects they would cancel. So Labor's answer to public transport infrastructure is to make promises that cannot be funded, that cannot be honoured. I know what you're going to say, Senator Sterle: 'Here we go again—Senator Smith is right. This is history repeating itself. How does he know these things?' Because you and Labor oppositions think they can hoodwink the Australian community. When the Labor Party were last in government, of the $6.2 billion they allocated to urban transport in the 2013 budget, just $1.9 billion—30 per cent—was in the forward estimates. The remaining $4.3 billion was outside the budget estimates. That is standard operating procedure for the Labor Party in this place—talk projects up, promise voters the world and then keep kicking the can further down the road when it comes to the question of actually paying for things.</para>
<para>It is clear: the Turnbull government does have a plan for investment in public transport infrastructure in Queensland, in Victoria, in South Australia, in New South Wales and, indeed, in my own state of Western Australia. What is the contrast? What is the comparator? The Labor Party has no plan. When it did have a plan, those plans were unfunded, they were hollow commitments and they would have left Australians high and dry.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:10</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RICE</name>
    <name.id>155410</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>In parliament yesterday we heard the Prime Minister accuse the Leader of the Opposition of being a parasite. But, when it comes to public transport policy in Australia, Prime Minister Turnbull is the great leech of our trains, trams and buses. He is more than happy to try and boost his popularity by taking selfies of himself on the train or—his second favourite—bus, but when it comes to investing in public transport he is just absent. He sucking the life out of public transport across our cities and propping up the big road lobby instead.</para>
<para>Senator Smith wanted to talk about facts, traversing the country as to where federal investment in transport was being made. The figure that he quoted for Victoria was notable. If you look at how much federal money is going into public transport infrastructure in Victoria, you see that less than one per cent—yes, one per cent—of that money has gone to Victoria in recent years. Senator Smith's quote was very telling: $10 million towards the Melbourne Metro rail tunnel. That is $10 million out of a project for which there is an investment of $10 billion. This is how out of whack this government's public transport funding is. What is really sad and what makes it so clear is that this is just a continuation of policy by both Labor and Liberal governments over many decades. If you look at investment by federal governments over many, many years, you see there was zero investment in public transport. Since the middle of last century, overwhelmingly the money from both state and federal governments has been spent on building more and more and more roads.</para>
<para>I am not against roads—roads are very useful things. I am also not against cars, as much as some people in this place might think that is the case. I drive a car. But it is a matter of having some balance. The balance that we need is a balance that will give us a very different model of transport investment than what we currently have. We are at a crossroads. We can continue in the direction in which we have been going for the last 60 years, with the overwhelming investment in large, polluting roads—more and more and more of them—in the vain hope that, by building more and more roads, we will somehow solve our congestion problems. Or we can take a step back and look at what transport planners, transport academics, community groups—anybody who is looking at the future of our cities in an objective way—say: that is not going to deliver the cities that we want. So we have got a choice. We have two very different models that we have to choose between.</para>
<para>The model that has a much better balance between road based transport—with cars providing passenger transport—and public transport and active transport is the city that I want to live in. We need cities that have got that balance. Let us look at all the trips being done in our city and let us aim to have about an equal balance. About a third of those trips should be made by private transport, so when we need to be driving somewhere in our private cars there is the road capacity to do that. About a third of all the trips we are taking should be able to be made by public transport. And about a third of the trips we are taking should be able to be made by active transport, like walking and cycling. To me, that is the balance that would actually lead us to have much healthier cities.</para>
<para>But the direction we are heading in at the moment is just a continuation of the same, which is where we have nine out of 10 trips being made by people in private cars, generally with only one person in that private car. There is an occupancy rate of 1.1 person per car. That might have worked in cities in Australia in the 1950s and 1960s and even the 1970s, because our cities were not nearly as big. We did not have the density that we have in our cities now. We could build the roads to cater for everyone who wanted to drive, who wanted to be able to jump in their car whenever they wanted to get somewhere and have a relatively clear, flowing journey to get from A to B. But it just does not work in cities the size of Australian cities today.</para>
<para>When you have cities like Melbourne and Sydney, which are pushing five million people, the fundamental problem is that you cannot fit that many cars in without having massive impacts on how your cities function. If you are going to continue to have nine out of 10 trips being made by cars in cities of five million people, you actually have to take up about a third of the city. One third of the space of the city has to be allocated to those cars in roads and parking, and that is just swallowing up far too much of the city that should be being used for all sorts of other things. It should be used for parkland, for housing and for recreational space. But the ongoing obsession with building big, new roads means that just gets eaten away. We have the tollways continuing to eat up our cities whether it is in Perth, with the Perth freight link; Sydney, with WestConnex; or Melbourne, with what was the East West Link, and we are now fighting the Western Distributor.</para>
<para>You cannot build your way out of congestion, because if you are going to build those roads to cater for that many people, you have the city going down the gurgler in terms of being a livable space. You also have the pollution that accompanies all of those trips—unless you are suddenly going to have a massive investment in renewable energy and electric cars being powered by renewable energy. The cars in our cities today have internal combustion engines, which are pumping out those greenhouse gases that are causing climate change. If we are serious about tackling climate change, we have to deal with reducing the number of cars on our roads. Then there is the urban air pollution, not just the carbon dioxide. There are the nitrous oxides, the sulphur and the other pollutants. The more cars you have in the city, the less and less livable it is.</para>
<para>When it comes to investment and the lack of investment by the federal government, the other telling factor as to why it is so much more sensible to be investing in public transport rather than in our roads is just how much more bang for your buck you get when you invest in public transport. Whether it is putting in something at grade or above ground or whether it is digging a tunnel to put in a train line or a tollway, basically you can shift far more people with a public transport project that you can building a tollway to shift people at 1.1 people per car.</para>
<para>In fact, if you build a new rail line, the number of people who can travel on a service operating at a high frequency is the equivalent of 12 lanes of freeway traffic. It is 12 to one in terms of the number of people you can shift, for about the same cost. That is why, if you are working out where you are going to put your money and what is going to give you the most benefit in terms of shifting people around their city, time and time again, hands down, investing in public transport is going to win out, and it is not just trains either. The Greens have a commitment to investing in trains, trams, buses and other public transport vehicles. You can get so much better value out of investing in busses to solve the congestion problems in the outer suburbs than you can by just continuing to expand the road network. As I said, we are at a crossroads. We can continue to go down the path we have in the past, which leads to congested, polluted, incredibly unpleasant cities to live in. Or we can go down a path that will lead to cities that are much more livable and sustainable and where people really want to live.</para>
<para>I think about the young people who are growing up in our cities today, particularly people who struggling to afford to buy a house. They find themselves having to live and rent in the outer suburbs, with pathetic public transport. That is not fair on them. And you have the older generations, who are able to afford to live in the inner city and who have access to good public transport. But because the investment in public transport has not kept up with our population growth, anybody who is living in more affordable housing on the outskirts of our cities are being discriminated against. It is not fair. It is intergenerational inequity, just so that the people who have always wanted to drive their cars can continue to drive their cars. It is not surprising that the younger generation have been much less keen. They see the advantages of public transport. They know that on public transport they can sit there and work on their phone or check their emails. They do not have this obsession or feeling that their whole sense of identity is tied up with having to be able to get in their car for every journey they take.</para>
<para>We have a situation where it is clear that logic and sensible planning shows that investment in public transport is the direction we need to be heading in. If we are heading towards a city that has the sort of balances I have talked about—a third of trips being made on public transport, a third being made in private cars on roads and a third on bikes and walking—there is something that is a really important part of that equation, and that is that we actually do not need more roads. We have enough roads for a third of our trips to be undertaken by roads, but we need to be investing in public transport to have public transport trips that really compete with cars and to provide public transport that is fast, frequent, reliable, affordable, safe and well-networked. That is where the deficiencies are, and it is because we have had this failure of investment over the last 60 years and we are continuing to have the failure of investment by this government.</para>
<para>If we actually decided that we really wanted to have healthy, sustainable cities and looked objectively at where the money needed to be spent, it would be very clear and very obvious that it is in those public transport projects, whether it is in the metros, electrification of lines that are currently regional services like the Melton line in Melbourne or putting in train services like the airport. People are astounded that Melbourne, a city the size that it now is, has not got a rail line to its airport. That is where the priority needs to be. Forget about trying to build your way out of congestion by wasting money on roads like the Western Distributor and the East West Link. It is by putting money in things like airport rail and rail out to Doncaster that we can really start to transform our cities.</para>
<para>The Greens have got a vision for $10 billion of investment over the next four years as being what is needed in federal funding to get public transport back on track. We will continue to call upon this government and to call upon Labor governments here at the federal level and at state levels to give priority to public transport funding. The Prime Minister in particular must stop being a public transport pretender and start getting serious about making public transport a better experience for all Australians.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:24</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator STERLE</name>
    <name.id>e68</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I cannot believe how blessed I am to be following on from Senator Smith and Senator Rice. Before I go to Senator Smith's contribution, I say God bless the Greens. I think Senator Rice really is pure of heart, and it is well known that Senator Rice is a cyclist, but I just have to clarify a few things. It is a wonderful dream to think we could have a third—I think it was, Senator Rice—of journeys in cars, a third on public transport and a third walking or cycling. But it never ceases to amaze me. The Greens, like all Australians, like to wake up in the morning and know the milk is fresh in the stores, there is bread on the shelves and newspapers have been delivered so everyone can read them. They actually get there through heavy vehicles and our transport networks, and we have to have roads to get our trucks from the ports, railheads, warehouses and distribution centres. You always seem to skip over that, Senator Rice.</para>
<para>I could probably make a suggestion: the Greens should lead by example. If they really are that concerned and passionate about cutting down on car journeys, why don't they all turn up each morning here—the whole nine of them—in a pastel rainbow painted bongo van so they could save the eight Comcars the journey? You do not see that. Mind you, it would remind me of that 1960s comedy sitcom, <inline font-style="italic">The Munsters</inline>, when they were on holidays! But I digress. I have got to come back to Senator Smith's contribution.</para>
<para>It is very clear the general business notice of motion was condemning the Turnbull government's lack of investment in public transport infrastructure, but Senator Smith clearly did not deliver a lot of home truths, and I would like to correct the record before I go down the path of talking about infrastructure for public transport. It is not only trains. It is not only buses. It is roads, bus stations and train stations. Senator Smith, in our state of Western Australia you cannot possibly argue—and I know you would not even try to argue—against the massive investment by state Labor governments in public transport over the last 20 years. It was state Labor governments that built the northern railway line, as you and I both know. You also know it was the Court Liberal government that shut down the Fremantle train line. You would remember that very well, because I know I do too. It was the state Labor government that opened it back up again. You would also know it was the state Labor government, through a previous member for—what seat was Alannah in? I cannot remember. What was her federal seat?</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Lines</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Perth.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator STERLE</name>
    <name.id>e68</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Perth! It was her fantastic work that opened up the southern suburbs with that magnificent piece of public transport infrastructure: the Perth-Mandurah railway line. I tell you what: I use it so many times. There are so many times when I use that in peak hour, and it is not big enough, let me tell you. It should be double-deckers.</para>
<para>But let's just clear some things that Senator Smith will not talk about. Yes, there happens to be a state election coming up in WA. We know that. Each time we have a state election under Barnett, from the Liberal opposition in 2008 to becoming the Premier in 2008 and then the Premier again at the 2013 election, there are shocking, misleading statements that the Barnett opposition and then Barnett government put out. Senator Smith, in his own words, made accusations of Labor 'hoodwinking voters' and about promises. I am not quite sure if it was 'broken promises' or 'Labor makes lots of promises'. But let me quote to this chamber a few examples of the shocking broken promises, false commitments and—no, I cannot use the word 'lies', because I will get pulled up by the Acting Deputy President. But what about the Ellenbrook railway line?</para>
<para>Everyone in this chamber knows I very rarely read speeches, and I am not reading a speech, but I want to quote and make sure I get my quotes right. This was during the 2008 campaign, when Mr Barnett was the Leader of the Opposition. The Liberals specifically stated:</para>
<quote><para class="block">A Liberal Government will provide $53 million over the next four years toward the construction of a new rail line to Ellenbrook, to meet needs in the fast growing North Eastern Growth Corridor.</para></quote>
<para>The Liberal candidate and now member for Swan Hills, Mr Frank Alban, sent out material to his electorate, telling voters that the Liberals would build the Ellenbrook line. The fact is the funding was not delivered. The project was cancelled. During the 2013 campaign, Premier Barnett claimed that the commitment had never been made. Of course, someone forgot to tell Mr Alban, who sent out all that information to the seat.</para>
<para>Here is another ruse from the Barnett Liberal government in Western Australia. This was on 31 July 2013. The catchcry at the time was 'fully funded, fully costed'. Here we go: despite claiming during the election campaign that its projects—this is the Liberal Party—were fully funded and fully costed, it was revealed that a total of $3 billion in Commonwealth contributions was assumed for major infrastructure projects such as the Liberal's MAX Light Rail, the Liberal's airport rail and the Perth to Darwin highway. The federal government had not given one single commitment to provide one cent of funding. It was another ruse by the Liberal Premier Barnett.</para>
<para>I will go onto the MAX Light Rail; let's talk about the MAX Light Rail not being funded. MAX Light Rail was this grand plan that the Liberals had into the election. They were going to look after Perth's public transport infrastructure. On 31 July 2013, both the funding and time frame of Premier Barnett's MAX Light Rail project were uncertain, with the Premier refusing to reiterate his promise that it would be operational by 2018. Former Prime Minister Tony Abbott refused to provide the required federal funding for the project as well.</para>
<para>The Liberal government said the Metro Area Express, which is the MAX, would be a new light rail system connecting Mirrabooka with the CBD—Mirrabooka is a northern suburb—and across to Nedlands. Nedlands is the area around the university. It is very nice suburb. You would not find too many blue-collar workers in Nedlands, which is a shame, because I know I would love to live there. The light rail would also connect up with Victoria Park, which is the next suburb, out of Perth and over the Causeway. Commuters would be able to use that new light rail by 2018. The Premier, Mr Barnett, said this on 2 September 2012:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Max light rail, that project is going to be complex … my instinct tells me is that if any of the projects are going to slip out, it’ll be that one.</para></quote>
<para>He said that a year later, on 15 May 2013, on ABC TV radio.</para>
<para>Here is another cracker. We will take this one from 28 August 2013: the rapid bus transit to Ellenbrook. You would have heard about that one. The Barnett government broke another promise to the people of Ellenbrook by failing to fund the Ellenbrook rapid bus transport service. They could not have the rail line and they are certainly not going to get the bus line. This is what the Barnett Liberal government promised: they promised Ellenbrook a rapid bus transit service, which was identified as a priority in the state government's public transport plan for Perth. Do you know what they are saying now? No funding was provided back in 2013-14 and it has just slipped off the books.</para>
<para>Here is another one. Now, before they all jump up on that side, all of a sudden with an election in the air, whoosh, it was: 'Let's get the graders out there, let's get some orange witch's hats and let's put some sites and fencing.' They have now extracted their political digit and now got on with the airport rail link because there is an election on. It is two years delayed. That happens. We know, we understand that delays happen. But Mr Barnett promised on 13 February 2014 that the Barnett government would deliver the airport-Forestville train line by 2018. If there was not an election coming now, there still would not be anything. That is the only reason they started one project after all the broken promises.</para>
<para>They also promised, on 30 June 2015, the Aubin Grove station. The Liberal government broke another promise on public transport with the delay of the construction of the Aubin Grove train station. They promised a train station and 2,000 park-and-ride facility would be open in 2016. Now they are hoping it is going to be open sometime around 2018. Before those opposite get all excited, I know massive infrastructure projects get delayed, but there is a difference between promising when you are going to do it and waiting until the last minute before the next election, then racing out to try to tell the people of Perth why you have lost a AAA credit rating and that you are a government that delivers. They are a government that breaks promises on public infrastructure and infrastructure projects constantly.</para>
<para>The Barnett Liberal government in Western Australia also promised—it was the Liberal-National government back then; now they are not, because they have had a little bit of a falling out with Mr Grills, the leader of the Nations, but anyway—that the Liberal-National government would add more than 15 million service kilometres and an extra 158 buses to the state's transport system, in the biggest boost to bus services in Western Australia in more than a decade. That was on 23 May 2011. What they are now saying is that the target of 15 million service kilometres has been 'wound back a little bit'—I do not know what that means—and spread over an extra seven years. That came from the Public Transport Authority's managing director, Mark Burgess—I know Mark Burgess. That was at an estimates hearing on 9 June 2015, when Senator Smith gave me the opportunity to correct the record.</para>
<para>I may as well keep going. On 27 July 2015, Mr Troy Buswell, who at the time would have been the Minister for Transport, said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Our two key transformational projects to redefine travel and development patterns are the extension of the northern suburbs railway to Yanchep and a light rail from Mirrabooka to the CBD.</para></quote>
<para>I have heard that before; it has popped up again. This was to the <inline font-style="italic">Sun City News</inline> on 21 July 2011. Where are we now? The Yanchep rail extension is not going to happen until possibly the middle of the next decade.</para>
<para>See, there is a constant here. There is a constant theme of promising anything that they think they need to do to win an election. They take the Western Australian voters for fools, promising it up. They promise, promise and promise. They then come back after the election and have more excuses than you could even imagine about why they cannot do it, while also losing our AAA credit rating, while also knowing that the wind-down on construction and in the mining industry was going to bite and while also knowing all the Treasury forecasts that the price of iron ore would fall through the floor. But that did not stop Premier Barnett and his ministers and members of parliament absolutely misleading the people of Western Australia with false promises that I said I am not allowed to call lies—but I do not know what else you call them in this day and age.</para>
<para>So, while I am on a roll, let's continue about the Western Australian Liberal government, shall we? And let's have a look. On 6 November 2015 they promised:</para>
<quote><para class="block">In total, 50 six-car sets (300 railcars) will be delivered over 10 years from 2019 at an estimated total capital cost of $1.2 billion.</para></quote>
<para>Then, on 26 October 2015 in <inline font-style="italic">The</inline><inline font-style="italic">West Australian </inline>Mr Barnett is quoted as saying:</para>
<quote><para class="block">We're just not in a position to make a huge commitment for the next series of cars.</para></quote>
<para>Now, isn't that amazing? So, Senator Smith: good luck. I know how it works, mate: Thursday arvo, and we have been here bashing heads all week, and we all have a lot of things going on, and then you get tapped on the shoulder, you get the phone call from the whip's office: 'Geez, we've got 20 minutes. Can you burn up some time, because the bloody opposition's put one on us. You're from Western Australia; the West Aussies will certainly get up and have a crack at us. Can you go in there and defend the indefensible?'—which I think you have done. You have done your party a service. You have tried your best, Senator Smith, but you really led with your jaw when you allowed me to come in and talk about the lack of public transport infrastructure in Western Australia and the misleading commitments and promises that were all broken by your mates in the Western Australian Liberal government in Perth under the leadership of Premier Barnett—who, I must say, now has found himself heading for another election, and all of a sudden I am just waiting for the promises that are going to come this time.</para>
<para>But unfortunately the beauty of this is that I think Western Australians will say: 'Hang on: we've heard it all before. We're sick of the promises. You can get away with the odd one that slips up now and again, but when you continually lie to us and continually mislead us and continue to promise the world and then come up with all the lame excuses for why you can't do it, while congestion in Perth is going through the roof—'.</para>
<para>And there is absolutely no secret that the former Prime Minister, Prime Minister Abbott, had no respect for public transport. He made it quite clear. How do I know this? I know because I have chaired the Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport Committee, whether it was Legislation, in the government years, or References, in the opposition years, for the past 10 years. That is how I know that. I sit there in Senate estimates, alongside Senator Back. We know all the promises. We know all the bulldust that gets sprayed around in every set of estimates. We get up there and we ask the same questions: when are you going to get a Bobcat and start turning over some soil, and when are we going to get graders in and when are we going to start building these huge infrastructure projects that you are good at talking about but do not deliver?</para>
<para>One can only say this, in all fairness: it is a well-known, proven fact, when it comes to infrastructure, that the previous, Labor, government was a leader of the pack, under the great leadership of the transport and planning minister, Anthony Albanese—Albo, as we all know him. What a leader. I have to tell you: I was at the Safety Summit the other day and I was listening to Albo speak and I am still inspired that the man has been in parliament for as long as he has and still has the passion for infrastructure, still has the passion for public transport, and absolutely has a passion for road safety. And I cannot wait for the next Labor government, because when we get in we will continue to invest heavily in infrastructure projects. We will continue to invest heavily in public transport. We will not be as misleading and as silly and off with the fairies as the Greens are—just imagine: we are all going to put a sidecar on our pushbikes and squeeze a couple more Greens in on top of each other—we are going to be sensible about it. We understand that freight has to move around this nation. We understand that people have to move around this nation. We also understand that public transport has to be safe, it has to be reliable and it has to be up there with best practice. We know all that. We also know that whatever we do we have to integrate all the facets of transport. It has to line up. And we do not go off into fairyland at elections and make all these weird promises and then come up with, 'Oh, sorry; we can't do it.'</para>
<para>So, Senator Smith, thank you so much for giving me the opportunity on this side of the chamber to actually correct some of the wrongs that you did espouse—and some of the language was a little—there was a little bit of argy-bargy, because I quite enjoy listening to Senator Smith, because he is a very intelligent person; there is absolutely no doubt about that. But he cannot fool those of us on this side of the chamber, who actually understand infrastructure, understand the need to move freight safely and to move it as sustainably as we can—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Smith</name>
    <name.id>241710</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I don't think that's what we—</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator STERLE</name>
    <name.id>e68</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>So, thank you. On that, I would just make this very clear: we have a proven track record on the Labor side. No-one can even try to pretend that it is Labor that does not build public transport infrastructure, and we recognise that we have to move people around this nation safely.</para>
<para>Senator Back is jumping at the gate to make a contribution. He is like a greyhound. I was at the Dapto dogs the other night, when I put that $20 on the dud.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Back</name>
    <name.id>J7Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>You should have backed me, son!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator STERLE</name>
    <name.id>e68</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>If he was jumping at the gate like Senator Back is, I would have been able to take the kids out for tea on Saturday night. But, on that note, I thank the Senate for its time and I shall now disappear off into the ether and see you next Monday.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:42</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BACK</name>
    <name.id>J7Q</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>And what a disappointment it is that Senator Sterle is going to leave us, because I was going to refer to some comments of the then secretary of the Transport Workers Union Western Australia in regard to the performance of one Alannah MacTiernan and her role as transport minister. And of course—before he leaves—that official was none other than now Senator Glenn Sterle. But I will not be addressing that for some time, Senator Sterle, so, if you are on your way then you might as well go on your way, because it is going to be about 10 minutes into my contribution before I actually get to roll that one out again.</para>
<para>In 2008 I was a candidate in the state election for the seat of Alfred Cove. And do you know that the Labor premier was Mr Carpenter? We did not have a leader, as Senator Smith knows. Troy Buswell was on his way. Colin Barnett had made a decision to retire, and he came back in. And the complete program that we ran: do you know what we actually said to the people of Western Australia by way of launching our campaign? We said, 'Name us five things that Labor has done in government.' And do you know, they could not: the people of Western Australia could not name five things Labor had done in government. Now, Senator Smith sits here, and if I am wrong I ask him to stand up and correct me. Why did we end up winning the election? It was for two reasons. First of all, nobody could name what Labor had done in government. It is true what Senator Sterle says—that they retained their AAA credit rating—because they did not do anything.</para>
<para>The second thing was that Mr Carpenter at the time, the Premier of the state, had within his right to control and nominate the date of the election. He could have said, 'It's going to be on Saturday, 9 or 10 February 2009,' but did he? No. Why? I will tell you why: he was an opportunist. He knew his government had achieved nothing in his time or that of his predecessor, with the exception, I will say, of then minister MacTiernan, a competent minister. I agreed with the statements that the then Secretary of the Transport Workers Union, Mr Glenn Sterle, said about Alannah MacTiernan: that she was competent and she achieved something, but she was the only one in their government that did. So what did Mr Carpenter do? Believing in the chaos that he thought existed in our party, he called the election for the middle of September 2008, thinking he would get us offside. He got one thing right, and that was Labor had twice the amount of money that we had. But what poor old Alan Carpenter forgot to take into account was that the first two weeks of the campaign were the Beijing Olympic Games, during which time whatever message went out from Mr Carpenter was buried in the euphoria. Not even his strategist, Mr Jim McGinty, knew that Alan Carpenter was going to go to that early election, so by the time the games were finished, the game was on. We both had the same amount of money.</para>
<para>Colin Barnett had gathered us together. He is a man of enormous integrity. He had had years in government, in opposition, as Minister for State Development, as Minister for Resources Development. When I was chief executive of Rottnest Island, he was my minister for tourism, which is where I first came to understand the intellect of the man and, I must say, his intolerance for fools. Senator Smith and I would both agree that one of Colin's weaknesses is that not only is he is highly intolerant of fools but he has a bit of difficulty in concealing it. I was talking to him the other day and I reminded of a campaign. Mr Ben Morton, the now member for Tangney, was the new state director for that campaign. Coming from eastern Australia—now he is a confirmed Western Australian, fortunately—he had not been there five minutes, but he had woken up to the fact that Labor had done nothing in government, and he ran the campaign. I said to Colin Barnett the other day, 'Colin, if we asked people today—whether they like you or not, whether they like the Liberal Party or not—to name 20 things you've done in government, I tell you what, they would get RSI writing out the number of things that the Barnett government has achieved.'</para>
<para>Poor old Senator Sterle is going to go now, but I am going to get to his comments about Alannah MacTiernan in her time when I speak about the Roe 8and Roe 9 campaigns. But one of the very first things Barnett did was the undergrounding of the railway. You remember, Senator Smith, that they had talked for about 100 years about undergrounding of the railway in the centre of Perth. Who did it? Barnett. Did it cost? The benefit to the city has been the sale of the land on top of that area and the reconnection of the city with the area to the north.</para>
<para>You know, Acting Deputy President Bernardi, and I think those in the gallery know, that you incur debt in this world. We all have debt. We incur a debt to buy a home. We might incur a debt to buy a car. But there are two types of debt. There is debt that creates assets and there is debt that damns you in liabilities. In my contribution, thanking Senator Gallagher for the opportunity this afternoon, I intend on alerting the wider community to the miserable circumstances that the Labor governments of Mr Rudd, Ms Gillard and Mr Rudd left this country as a result of the squandering of what was a surplus handed to them on a silver platter, not through the debt from the creation of assets that create you further wealth, but the debt that damns you to the $360 billion that we inherited from Mr Rudd in 2013. But those of you that need to get a handkerchief in the gallery need to know this. It is not so much the debt that is costing you today and restricting our ability to do a lot of things we talk about; it is the fact that we are borrowing from overseas $400 million a day, or $1.2 billion a month.</para>
<para>Now you would think, 'Oh well, if Australia's doing that to pay the debt back, isn't that a good idea?' But no, as Senator Smith knows—he has cried out over this—we are not paying the $1.2 billion a month on the debt repayment; we are paying it to pay the interest on the debt. The $1.2 billion a month, the $400 million a day, 30 days of every month goes down the gurgler like it does if you have a credit card debt: you must pay. If you have a mortgage on your home, you know you have to pay the interest, and that is where we find ourselves in this country today. Mr Costello, who inherited a $96-billion debt from the previous government of Mr Keating—typical of Labor governments—said to me one day, 'Chris, when we paid the $96 billion back, we had $6 billion then that used to go out in interest that we could now put back into the Australian economy.' Incidentally, he did not sell anything. He did not sell any Australia Posts to pay back the $96 billion; he just did it through economic rigidity and stability.</para>
<para>Imagine that $1.2 billion a month today. Imagine if we had $15 billion or $16 billion that we could put back into services. I will tell you what that $1.2 billion equates to. It equates to the new Perth Children's Hospital, which Mr Barnett has just finished. That is one lousy month's interest on the debt. The Fiona Stanley Hospital that Mr Barnett has built—arguably, in the words of doctors I have spoken to in recent days, the most modern hospital in the world—is about six weeks interest on the debt. Do you know that we could be building two new primary schools are day, seven days a week, if we were not repaying that interest on the debt.</para>
<para>That brings me not just to the Fiona Stanley Teaching Hospital and the new children's hospital that Premier Barnett has been responsible for—in the time Mr Barnett has been in government, there are no less than 37 new hospitals in the rural areas of WA, the ones that Senator Smith and I represent. They are in the wheat belt, the South West, the Great Southern, the Mid West and the Pilbara—in towns like Merredin, Northam and Narrogin new hospitals are being developed—23 small hospitals. And we are invited to think that the Barnett government has not done anything?</para>
<para>Let me tell you a little bit more about assets versus liabilities, because I am going to get onto the liabilities of the federal government, where they wasted your money. In a visionary manner, Colin Barnett has reclaimed the Swan River back up to the city. It had always been river. It was reclaimed and he has brought it back up to the city and created what is called Elizabeth Quay. So we have this absolutely world-leading capitalised facility now, right at the base of the city. All the critics said, '$440 million. What a shock. What a debt he has incurred in doing this—' in creating the most phenomenal facility. Did you know that the other day he sold the last block that is available as part of the commercial development and he already has $390 million of the $440 million back in the kick? That is what expenditure of money on assets creates.</para>
<para>Only recently did I have the pleasure, on behalf of the federal transport minister, to open a section of the Forrest Highway-Kwinana Freeway, right beside that Aubin Grove railway station that Senator Sterle was asking, 'Would it ever be built? Is it ever likely to be there?' It is bad luck that Senator Sterle does not perhaps get into those areas a bit more often, because it was right beside where our Minister Marmion and I opened the $120 million freeway. The Aubin Grove railway station is there; it is finished. But I was able to say proudly at that time how phenomenal it is that the Barnett government, with the support of federal funding, has completed the Great Eastern Highway extension out to the airport. It has completed the multibillion dollar gateway road project around the international and domestic airports. It has built the Forrest Highway down into the south-west, down into our Margaret River-Dunsborough recreation areas, attendant upon all of the increased business in tourism, in mining and in agriculture. But I was also able to say that through the excellence of the combination of Western Australian and federal funding, each of those projects has been completed under budget, under time and if not superior to at least equal to the quality that was contracted for.</para>
<para>That is what the Barnett government is achieving in Western Australia. I was not always in favour of a new football stadium, but in most Western Australians are. We looked at the beautiful facility they now have in the Adelaide football oval in South Australia when we looked at the old heap of garbage that exists at Subiaco Oval. Yes, some people do not always want every project. But, as I said to somebody the other day when he was complaining about the debt incurred, 'Mate, just tell me which project you did not want. Tell me about not wanting Elizabeth Quay. Tell me about roads to the north of the state you did not want. Tell me about roads that are now more safe. Tell me about hospitals and schools. And tell me all about those infrastructure projects you don't want.' And this joker said, 'Chris, I want every one of them.' That is the difficulty in today's world—so, yes, the Barnett government has incurred debt.</para>
<para>I now want to turn attention to where the Rudd/Gillard/Rudd governments incurred the debt that the Australian taxpayers will be paying back well beyond the time of their children and their grandchildren. Remember, Rudd came into government with no debt—the only country in the OECD that had no debt. No deficits; we were in surplus. We had $40 billion or $50 billion sitting in the bank earning interest. So, what did he do that? Well, he chucked it out on $900 and $1,200 cheques. That was successful! People who had died got them; people in prison got them; backpackers back in Switzerland who had paid tax in the previous year got their $900 cheques; and my aged mother, wheelchair-bound in a nursing home, got both the $900 and $1,200 cheques. Do you know where most of the money went? We know this as a result of Senate inquiries and joint inquiries. It went into three main sources: drugs and alcohol, evidenced by the increase in accidents and emergencies at all of Australia's major hospitals on those two Friday nights; poker machines, as evidenced in evidence to us in the Mr Wilkie inquiry on mandatory pre-commitment; and, of course, Chinese TVs. That was the first great effort by the Rudd government.</para>
<para>Was any money spent on asset development lake exploration from mining, which might learn actually lead to some more employment. No, no, no—no Labor government ever spends money on asset creation! What was next? Next was the Gillard memorial halls. I chaired the Education, Employment and Workplace Relations Committee at that time, and for my sins I was for nine years on the Catholic Education Commission of Western Australia, so I know a little bit about spending Commonwealth government moneys, because the Commonwealth gives the independent and Catholic schools money, and we spend that money down to the last dollar, because it is so rare to get it. But we sat there and watched the states like New South Wales—not so much Victoria, because they had the sense not to spend the money initially, and that was fairly unusual because the whole purpose of giving it to them was to create an economic activity. Victoria did not do the spending but at least they did not waste as much money. The other states all did. So it was about $13 billion or $14 billion on the Gillard memorial halls.</para>
<para>Moving on, there was the $2.8 billion of the pink batts—do you remember that? There were people going up and down streets saying, 'We put pink batts there, there, there and there,' and they sent in the bill and the Labor government paid the bill. The unfortunate thing was that four young people, I think, regrettably were killed as a result of the dereliction in terms of oversight of those young people in roofs. People were saying, 'No.' When it all came out and there was a royal commission, they went back and said, 'We better go back and address ourselves.' Officers knocked on doors and they said, 'Oh, Mrs Fognucklevitch, we're here to check on the pink batts for which the Australian taxpayer paid $1,600 to some charlatan.' And Mrs Fognucklevitch said, 'Nobody's been to my home to put in pink batts.' That was $2.8 billion, plus the other costs associated with further compensation.</para>
<para>We know, of course, there was the infamous mining tax. Some of us from the west actually know a bit about the mining industry. And to give him credit, the then shadow minister, Mathias Cormann, stood up here and said to the now Leader of the Opposition in the Senate, Senator Wong, again and again: 'You will make no money out of the mining tax. It'll be the first ever tax which is going to cost you more than you'll get back.' And indeed that happened. That was a bit more expenditure on liabilities. We also had the carbon tax offsets that went up in smoke. We had the Green Loans scheme, another $175 million. You see? That is the difference between a Barnett government and a Labor government. A Barnett government, with the assistance of a coalition government in Canberra, will spend its resources and those of the Australian taxpayer on assets, whereas a Labor government will squander them—your money; not government money, but your money.</para>
<para>I conclude my contribution with the Roe Highway, going through an area very close to where I live and where my electorate office exists—Roe 8 and Roe 9. I did mention many years ago that this project should have been completed. But a then state Labor government, with then minister Ms Alannah MacTiernan and the local member for Fremantle at the time, Mr Jim McGinty, decided that they would put a spoke in the wheel. They rezoned the land as residential and they started selling it. I said—I promised—that the biggest critic at the time from a heavy transport point of view was none other than a person I regard as a personal friend, the highly respected Senator Glenn Sterle, who was the secretary of the Transport Workers Union in WA at that time. He resoundingly criticised Ms MacTiernan.</para>
<para>So here we are today building Roe 8 and Roe 9, a project mainly funded out of federal government funds because Infrastructure Australia has concurred how critically important that project is—one that will add immeasurably to safety and one that will cut down on travelling time. And, yes, the heavy industry will pay a little bit of a toll. Residential cars will not pay a toll, but the trucking industry will pay a bit in consideration of the enormous savings they will make. I can only thank Senator Gallagher for the opportunity to highlight why Western Australians must re-elect a Barnett-led government.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:03</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LINES</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I know that Senator Back and Senator Smith work very hard. They are on a number of Senate committees and they are from Western Australia. Most of you in this chamber know that it is a long flight and as senators we often are on the trot for three or four days in a row when we do our committee work. I can only conclude the fact that they have this bizarre idea of what is happening in Western Australia, looking at Mr Barnett through rose-coloured glasses, because they have been out of the state for quite some time because nothing they have said today is actually accurate. Senator Back was within the last seconds of his speech before he mentioned public transport. And do you know why, Mr Acting Deputy President Ketter? Because Mr Barnett's track record and, indeed, Mr Turnbull's track record—and, before him, Mr Abbott's track record—on public transport spending in WA is zero. They have done nothing. In fact, Liberal governments in WA have a history of broken promise after broken promise and of even closing down train lines.</para>
<para>The motion before us today is the failure of the Turnbull government to invest in public transport infrastructure across Australia. Senator Smith and Senator Back focused on Western Australia because Colin Barnett is in big trouble. He is the most unpopular Premier of all time. The other point that Senator Back talked about was—he tried to slip the West Australian debt under the carpet. The West Australian debt is so big, is so large and is so frightening you could not sweep it under anything if you tried. It is currently at $41 billion, all incurred by the Barnett government—every single cent of that. That is the legacy Mr Barnett will leave when he is swept out of office on 11 March. No wonder Senator Back and Senator Smith did not mention public transport, because it is a sorry story. Certainly it could be called, like Roe 8, a road to nowhere. That could be the mantra of the Turnbull government followed by a failure of the WA Barnett government in any kind of investment, whether it is road investment or public transport investment.</para>
<para>I want to put my bona fides on the table. This is my SmartRider card. I am a user of public transport in Western Australia, public transport that has, in the main, been put in place by Labor governments. Let me just go over the records of the Turnbull and, indeed, the Barnett governments. I want to start with Ellenbrook, which sits in the state seat of Swan Hills—there is a fabulous Labor candidate there by the name of Jess Shaw—but also sits in the federal seat of Pearce, which is held by Mr Christian Porter. Mr Christian Porter well and truly takes that seat for granted—I have never seen him at Ellenbrook—and his margin during the federal election was halved. Is it any wonder? Ellenbrook is not a new development, although there are still housing developments going up there; it has been around for quite some time and it is completely isolated as a suburb of Perth. Mr Barnett, when he came into power, made big promises—'We'll get a train line out to Ellenbrook'—copying the commitments that Labor had given. He was forced to follow on with that commitment.</para>
<para>To get to Ellenbrook, you have to go on very narrow old roads that once upon a time would not have been used very much, because Ellenbrook is adjacent to a pine forest and sits in what was formerly fairly rural land. We created this development, but sadly that is all we did. We developed housing development after housing development. There are two roads into Ellenbrook, single lane all the way. There are a number of roundabouts on those single-lane roads. Believe me: on the times that I have been out to Ellenbrook, it does not matter what time of the day you go out there. The tailbacks coming off those roundabouts are disgraceful.</para>
<para>So Mr Barnett, in a great flurry, said, 'Yes, yes, yes, I'll build a rail line to Ellenbrook.' Within six weeks of winning government, he had completely reneged on that promise. Some time later, he said he would do a fast transit lane out there. I am not quite sure how he was going to put a fast transit lane in on roads which are predominantly single lane, but anyone who has been stuck on Lord Street or the other roads leading out to Ellenbrook will just laugh at that commitment. But guess what: he did not even deliver that. That got cancelled quickly. Then he promised Ellenbrook, a fast-growing suburb, a high school. That has gone by the wayside as well.</para>
<para>I just want to share with you a story from a woman called Tiffany who lives in Ellenbrook, about the daily battle that she has to endure as she travels to work, because her only option is to use her car or sit on a bus—but that would equally mean getting caught up in the chaos of that single road in and out of Ellenbrook. She is an education assistant, and she travels from Ellenbrook to Redcliffe. That is similar to the journey that I do. I live in the adjoining suburb to Redcliffe, so I know the sorts of trials and tribulations that Tiffany endures. With only two roads leading in and out of Ellenbrook, the outcome of her drive to work is always the same: slow, long and irritating. The 48-kilometre journey takes up to two hours. This is not Western Sydney; this is Western Australia—Perth. It amounts to more than $200 every fortnight in fuel, and this is for an education assistant whose hourly rate is probably around $26. Sadly, this is not an uncommon story among Ellenbrook residents, and that is why so many of them want a rail line. Over the past nine years, the Barnett Liberal government has broken promise after promise on local transport to Ellenbrook. In 2008 it was the Ellenbrook rail line, and then it was the fast transit lane. Of course, all Tiffany wants to do is reduce her two-hour car journey to and from work every day.</para>
<para>Ellenbrook is so isolated. I will just say again that we have pine plantations at the western end and fairly rural communities around Ellenbrook. There was a very bad fire there in 2013, in the Gnangara pine plantations, and guess what: residents were unable to evacuate because those two roads became so congested with people trying to leave. But that did not spark Mr Barnett into action to keep his promise. He completely broke that promise to the voters of Ellenbrook, and they will remember that. I have to say that Mr Porter, as the federal member and a member of the Turnbull government, has also not been banging on the door and saying to the Prime Minister, 'We need to do something in Ellenbrook.'</para>
<para>But it does not stop there. That is the story of Ellenbrook. The other story, of course, is the MAX light rail project, another pie in the sky idea from the Barnett government. They were going to build a MAX light rail system that went across the north of the city. Great promises were made about the MAX light rail. It was going to ease city congestion. It was going to be wonderful. They promised that it would happen. Well, guess what: another broken promise, and that promise did not even have any funds committed from the federal government, because Mr Abbott, when he was Prime Minister, made it very clear that the Abbott government was not going to commit those funds to the MAX light rail project.</para>
<para>You might want to forgive the federal government for reneging on that. You might even want to forgive Mr Barnett for failing to invest in public transport into Ellenbrook or, indeed, public transport across the northern suburbs of Perth. But it does not stop there; it just goes on and on and on. This is a Liberal Party, as I said, with a history of closing rail lines. Under Mr Court they closed the Fremantle line. Who in their right mind would close the rail line from Perth to Fremantle? Well, the Liberals did it under Mr Court.</para>
<para>I used to live in the suburb of Byford. We had a rail link to Byford that I used to use as a young mum with two kids. There was a train twice a day. In those days, when my children were small, Byford was a very long way out, in the outer metropolitan area, and they closed that line. Now Byford is going to be another Ellenbrook unless something is done to make public transport accessible out there. Byford, a little bit like Ellenbrook, was formerly on the outskirts of the city, with lots of dairy farms. Those have now all been subdivided, so there is booming development in Byford, in those former dairy paddocks, and guess what: Mr Barnett has not provided one ounce of public transport. We will have another Ellenbrook on our hands if we are not careful.</para>
<para>Young people in Ellenbrook are trapped there on the weekends, with nothing to do. Students in Ellenbrook have to move closer to the city if they want to go to university, because, just as Tiffany travels each day for two hours to her workplace in Redcliffe, if you were going to university from Ellenbrook, your journey would probably be three hours by car. And goodness knows how long it would be if you had to use what limited public transport there is, because Mr Barnett and Mr Turnbull have absolutely failed to invest any money in public transport.</para>
<para>In Byford, there is this new development sitting on the former dairy farms. They have some of the largest primary school. With the development, every week, if you go out there along the Thomas Road, there are more and more houses, with more and more people moving out there because it is affordable. But there is no public transport.</para>
<para>I know that Mark McGowan, the Labor leader in Western Australia, has invested in public transport, and he has pledged to reopen the Byford line. You would not think that would be such a hard commitment to make. All the line infrastructure is still there because the trains that go down to Bunbury still use that line. It is not as if it has fallen into disrepair. It is perfectly able to be used. The trains go as far as Armadale, and Byford is the next stop. But there has been nothing from Mr Barnett. He does not have the foresight to do anything because he does not believe in public transport, and neither does the Turnbull government, so no commitments are being made there. If the Barnett government is re-elected, which I have to say at this stage there are very long odds against, the people of Byford will be left high and dry.</para>
<para>But it does not stop there. Belmont is a suburb adjoining mine. Yesterday in here I reported on the sudden closure of the Medicare office. It was closed by the Turnbull government—no notice, nothing. Belmont is a suburb that has a high population of people over the age of 70 and a higher than average population of families. If they need a full-service Medicare office, if they need to talk face-to-face with a person, they have to go to Cannington, 8.5 kilometres away. Guess what? There is no direct transport link. Once again, that is an absolute failure by Liberal governments. Both Mr Turnbull and Mr Barnett are failing to invest.</para>
<para>As a mum with kids or as a dad with kids, if you need to go and do face-to-face work with the Medicare office in Cannington, you could either make a two-bus journey or—wait for it—you could do two buses and a train. That is to travel 8.5 kilometres. What a joke. They are almost adjoining suburbs, yet you have to take this indirect route, round and round the tree, to travel 8.5 kilometres. Even if people have a car at their disposal, as certainly some of the senior Australians I spoke to do—who were very disgusted by the Turnbull government closing this Medicare office, on Medicare's birthday last week, I might add—they do not want to travel those 8.5 kilometres in their cars because, given that the public transport options are so bad, where you have the choice between a two-bus journey or a two-bus plus a train journey, the road is heavily congested. The roads between Belmont and Cannington are heavily congested because people have no option other than to get in their cars, just to travel 8.5 kilometres.</para>
<para>Let us look at the sort of investment Mr Turnbull or Mr Barnett have made in the seat of Belmont, which, again, sits in the federal seat of Swan, the seat that I live in: zilch. In fact, the big joke is that, time after time, the member for Swan tries to take credit for the Gateway project around the airport, which we all know was a Labor project, and he tries to take credit for the upgrade of the Great Eastern Highway, which again was a Labor investment—so much so that, during the federal election, when the member for Swan made these incorrect pronouncements once again, his own state Liberal members said, 'Actually, no, that was the Labor government that put those in place.' So we have this pretence going on that, somehow, the Turnbull government is interested in infrastructure in Western Australia. It is not. It has not spent a cent on public transport infrastructure in Western Australia, and all we have seen from Mr Barnett is failure, and broken promise after broken promise, on public transport.</para>
<para>Finally, there is, we think—we think; we do not know—a link being built out to the airport. I heard Senator Rice speak earlier about the embarrassment of Melbourne not having a train, and I agree with her; we should have a train out to our airport in Melbourne. Until recently, we did not even have a bus service out to the international airport in Western Australia, so, if you were a visitor and you wanted to use public transport, sorry, but you have to pay for a taxi, a private car or a private bus. For the last six months, we have had one bus going out to the airport, but it does this almost circular route, so you probably need to allow about two hours for your journey. That has been the sole public transport option delivered by the Barnett government in Western Australia. As for the airport link, I will not hold my breath. I will not hold my breath, because Mr Barnett has made a commitment for beyond his term of government about what might happen out at the airport in terms of trains. So I am not holding my breath on that one, because that could well be a white elephant in the unlikely event that the Barnett government gets re-elected, because you can only break promises so many times before people see you as just a complete waste, someone who squandered the boom and who racked up a $41 billion debt all of his own making—all his own making, nothing to do with Labor. That absolutely lies at the feet of Colin Barnett. It scares me as a Western Australian that we have this massive debt. It really does.</para>
<para>Labor has a plan for public transport, a plan for jobs, a plan for building train carriages locally and a plan for local jobs. Mr Barnett has nothing. He has a history of broken promises. He does not deserve to be re-elected on 11 March, and, certainly, at this rate he will not be.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:22</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'SULLIVAN</name>
    <name.id>247871</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Before I start my contribution on this motion I cannot help but reflect on the final presentation by Senator Lines, who clutching her heart indicated that she was scared about the debt of Western Australia of $41 billion. I do not know where she got her fright from, but it was not Western Australia. It might have had something to do with the $320 billion that you yoked the neck of this nation with when Labor were in power. I have no idea why she is frightened of a little tree snake in WA when she left a dirty, big mongrel python crawling around in this part of the nation. I promised myself that I was going to make a quiet and constructive contribution, but this hypocrisy gets to me eventually.</para>
<para>I do not often point out to the Australian Labor Party where they have gone wrong, but I do want to give them some advice on drafting these motions. When I read this motion in my office I thought that finally the Australian Labor Party wanted to have a discussion with us about infrastructure and public transport. I have not seen any sign of it in the last couple of years. We come into question time time and time again—and I am noted for interjecting on this subject and calling out: 'Are you going to talk about education? Infrastructure? Are you going to ask us a question about health?' But I get no, no and no.</para>
<para>So here is my advice for you. When you drafted this motion you should have said, 'That the Senate condemns the failure of the Turnbull government to invest in public transport in marginal seats in Western Australia.' You forgot to put in the motion 'marginal seats in Western Australia'. Here is what was a bit of a clue for me. I came in here and saw the speakers list and saw that every Labor contribution was to come from a Western Australian senator. I scratched my noggin and wondered why that would be so. I am a bit slow on things, but then it dawned on me that there must be a state election in the west.</para>
<para>In the contribution by Senator Lines she drew the boundaries around suburbs. This was not a general question. This was not a reflection across the nation. She went street by street, if you listened very carefully. I say, as I lead into my contribution on this, that that is a complete abuse of this place. It is a complete abuse that the Labor Party would engineer to devote the time of this Senate to direct politicking in a state election campaign in their home state. You need to be condemned for it.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Moore</name>
    <name.id>00AOQ</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr Acting Deputy President, I have a point of order. It is a point of order in terms of just some advice back to Senator O'Sullivan. If he reflected on the previous contributions in this debate by the Western Australian Liberal senators, he would understand that there were a wide range of contributions in this debate.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'SULLIVAN</name>
    <name.id>247871</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Through you, Mr Acting Deputy President, I let Senator Moore know that just because I have given her some advice she does not need to give me any. It would be no surprise for the government to send in qualified individuals from the state of Western Australia to rebut the falsehoods expressed by Labor senators from that state. I am going to leave that where it is because I will not be denied the chance to lay down the fantastic work of this government in the field of public transport and infrastructure. I am best qualified in my home state of Queensland and I want to talk about that.</para>
<para>I see Senator Dastyari there. If I were to ask to him: what is the RAAP? I bet him a carton of anything he drinks that he cannot answer that question. I will sit silently if he wants to take a point of order and win a carton of Dom Perignon or whatever it is Labor people drink. I can tell you that it is the Regional Aviation Access Program. For all of my National Party colleagues here this is a significantly important program. In this program the Australian government provides targeted support for aerodrome infrastructure and air services to remote areas.</para>
<para>Why is that important? Because if you people who come from the cities get a bit crook you can take a cab, take a bus, get an ambulance or even get a helicopter to land on the park opposite you if you want. There are so many choices of modes of transport that you have to get yourself from point A to point B. Our people, particularly those in the more rural and remote areas of the country, have to rely on air services. It might take them 15 to 20 times longer to get themselves into care or to go about the general business that they need to do. This support keeps these aerodromes open for that public transport and publicly subsidised private transport. In Queensland $140 million is spent in supporting the provision of public transport by private sector providers. This is incredibly important funding.</para>
<para>Your motion says that the Turnbull government has failed, but that is an absolute nonsense. Not only are these public services funded and supported but there is support for the aerodromes and all the infrastructure that goes with them that enables them to operate. This is the lifeblood for these communities of ours. Fresh food, mail, educational materials, medicines and other urgent supplies come via these simple routes. I can promise you this: whatever you may think of us in the National Party, if the government that we were involved in and that we had influence in was not doing the right thing about investing in the sorts of infrastructure and public transport needs of our people in the bush, we would be squealing here like stuck pigs all day—12 hours a day and four days a week—when the Senate sits. That is all we would talk about. But we are not doing that because we are a part of a government that understands the essential needs for so many Australians who do not live in postcodes that end with three noughts.</para>
<para>This scheme currently subsidises a regular air service to 260 remote communities. You want to talk about this government supporting public transport? We subsidise regular air services to 260 remote communities. Do know why that is important? It is because they do not have any other choice. There are no bicycle pathways—hundreds of millions of dollars have been spent around the nation putting in bicycle pathways—and you cannot walk under the street light to get from where you are to where you need to be. You cannot even ring a near friend. Your nearest friend could be 200 or 300 kilometres away. There are just so many things that the Labor members in this place take for granted, because they are all locked and embedded in the metropolitan high-population areas, and their lives have always been like that. Their lives have been lived through a trade union movement for the most part, where they spend their time taking something off someone else. They do not know how to deliver it themselves. They have never employed anybody. Honestly, if a Labor person over there put their hand in their pocket to pay a wage it was because they were reaching for the consolidated revenue of some organisation they were working for. There are no business people, no farmers and no people from the bush over there. Labor people come in here to try and lecture us about the government that we are a part of not supporting public transport and all the infrastructure that underpins it. I must say that I take some offence to that. Eighty-six of these locations are Indigenous communities, with the balance being primarily cattle stations—that is what it is. Our people are making their land available—their own private assets—for services to be delivered to their regional communities—no charge. 'Let's build and maintain a light airstrip at property No. 1 and all the people who live in the district, within a couple of hundred kilometres, can utilise it for services that are supported by our government.'</para>
<para>Then, of course, there is this Remote Airstrip Upgrade Program. It is a competitive merit-based grants program where there is some flexibility to relax the co-funding requirements for projects if they happen to be in priority Indigenous communities. These are people who cannot get out of these places unless we have subsidised public transport opportunities. I can tell you and report to this place—I keep a close eye on this and I keep a close ear out, and I know my colleagues from New South Wales do the same—that I do not have one complaint to make.</para>
<para>At my end of town, in Queensland, I am happy with what this government has done. We can always do more, and we continually push for more or less increases in services, not the establishment of them. I have been around for a while now—in my adult life I have been involved in politics for nearly 35 years—and there are two things I can tell you about the Australian Labor Party without fear of contradiction, and this is what makes it so offensive when they come in here with these things. First, they cannot manage an economy. They are good at so many things and the Labor movement is made up of so many decent people—honest people and true warriors for their ideology—but they cannot manage an economy. Second, they have no interest in rural Australia. Not only do they have no interest in rural Australia but they also do not understand rural Australia. They did not understand when our government invested $10 billion to upgrade the Bruce Highway in my home state of Queensland. That was the biggest single infrastructure commitment in the history of the Commonwealth government, but not by the Labor Party. The Labor Party had been in power for six or seven years beforehand and not a red razoo was committed or promised to the Bruce Highway upgrade. We then came to power and spent $10 billion, which, over a period of time, will enhance the movement of public transport and subsidised transport up and down the eastern seaboard of my home state of Queensland.</para>
<para>This Remote Air Services Subsidy Scheme that we talk about provides 366 remote communities in isolated Australia with improved access through the subsidy of delivery of regular air transport services by the private sector. Do you want to talk about the public sector? Do you want to talk about how you can walk out of your house and ring Uber, ring a cab or walk over the road and get a train every three minutes? All of these things are what you, my colleagues on the other side, take completely for granted living in the city and in the metros. Our people are lucky to have a service a week, and they would not have that if this government did not heavily subsidised these 366 communities not just in the movement of people passengers but also in the movement of freight—the essentials of life in many cases. You go down and get your bottle of fresh milk. That is not available to our people in the bush.</para>
<para>This investment by our government is not just simply about subsidising public transport and making sure that we subsidise and support the maintenance of hundreds of airstrips—I imagine across the country there is well over a thousand 'aerodromes', as they were called—but it is also about other infrastructure programs. I have just talked to you about the Bruce Highway. I will talk now about the Toowoomba Second Range Crossing. If anybody from Longreach—and if you are familiar with our state, just close your eyes and imagine about half the land mass of the state of Queensland—wants to use subsidised public transport with buses and a range of other methods, they have to come down. They have to get efficiently from where they are to where they are going. That is why this government has invested about another $2.5 billion in things like the range crossing and the upgrade of the Warrego Highway. So it is unfair, and in fact quite hypocritical, for the Labor Party to come out and talk about the failure of the Turnbull government to invest in public transport infrastructure.</para>
<para>Every time I speak I am going to ensure that I bring to everyone's attention this feature of the Australian Labor Party: they are like an organ-grinder's monkey—I could put in ear plugs, move my lips and tell you what they are saying. They come in here and get this whine up and we hear this big shrill noise—it is complete and absolute negativity. There is not one positive element, not one alternative option. We heard Senator Lines—she went street by street, crescent by crescent. If I closed my eyes I could almost make the journey. I do not know where it is but I have an image in my mind now that if you turn left and go down there past the medical centre, you get to the end and turn right—no grids to cross, just four-lane bitumen roads. There was not one word from her, or in any of the other contributions today, about what the alternative would be; nothing about what Labor would do. There is a reason for that—Labor made some monstrous commitments during the election and reflected on commitments that they said they had done, but of course they made the statements, they made the promises, but they did not make provision in the budget and the budget forecasts, in forward estimates, to pay for the projects.</para>
<para>I heard the Greens senator lament the inability of the Victorian government to provide some public transport infrastructure out to the airport. For goodness sake, this is the same government that tore up $1 billion—that is what it had to pay contractors when it abandoned its biggest major project in recent decades in the state of Victoria. I wish Senator Lines were here because I would yield some of my time for her to answer me: what could you build for $1 billion? Could you have put a public transport corridor, a rail corridor, from the city for these visitors out to the Melbourne airport? I think the answer is clear—I think the answer is yes.</para>
<para>We just have this unfolding hypocrisy. I do not know what structure there is with our friends across the other side, but someone has just had a little brain thought: 'We've got a Western Australian election, we will have a statement and we will conceal it as if it is generally for Australia but then we'll have a series of speakers and we will not mention anywhere in Australia except in marginal Labor state seats in Western Australia. That is the hypocrisy. There is a reason they do not stand on their record; there is a reason they do not say to us that 'Turnbull and company have not done this but we have done that,' and the reason is that they did not do that. We watch this vulnerability here all the time, particularly at question time, when they want to talk about defence spending. My colleagues would have noticed over recent weeks and months that they do not ask questions on defence spending any more, because they were tired of being struck in the middle of the forehead with the fact that in six years under a Labor government they never spent a zack. It is for that very reason that they do not stand on their record when they come up with these crazy, crazy motions like this one here today. There is not one mention from any of their speakers about what they have done. Not one significant project was heralded, and particularly not in regional and provincial Australia. They have never been out there. They do not know of the need for public transport in Roma because they have never been to Roma and they do not care—that is not where their people are; that is not where the CFMEU is based. They do not care about my country communities. We hear the view that there is no public transport and no support, but I read out all the programs that we support—260 remote communities, 360 airport services subsidised—and I am sure that if there are any more contributions from the other side they will not recognise that. They will not say one single thing about the description provided by this side of the chamber of the incredible investment that has been made by the Turnbull government, and indeed the coalition since we came to power. There is a lot of catch-up, a lot of investment in things that should have been done years ago. We can stand here for the next hour and talk about the projects, we can talk about the funding, but the facts are there; they are on the public record and they cannot be disputed. Yet we listened to Labor speaker after Labor speaker after Labor speaker and not once did they either put on the record what they themselves have done or offer any alternatives to their whingeing. We have done all this with the legacy of a $300 billion debt. We have done all this with a legacy of structural deficits that we are still struggling to get under control. We have had to do that because all those projects that they even put in in pencil had no money in the forward estimates. I do not intend to sit quietly while the Labor Party comes along and lectures my government in relation to matters of public transport infrastructure when we have such a sterling record to date in very difficult circumstances.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:43</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ROBERTS</name>
    <name.id>266524</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I want to make four points. In the Pauline Hanson's One Nation party we are strong supporters of the need to invest in infrastructure—infrastructure of all kinds that becomes productive and adds to our wealth. But I am very doubtful about this Labor motion. As a 17-year-old I can remember Gough Whitlam saying at the end of his first year that he had spent $50 million on Aboriginal people in Australia, and he proudly boasted that that was double the expenditure of the last 12 months of the previous government under William McMahon. He implied that by spending more it benefited the people. We see now that that welfare, according to many Aboriginal people, has effectively hurt Aboriginal communities. So the spending of money does not necessarily translate into beneficial spending or investing in people or infrastructure. It is the quality of spending of taxpayer funds that matters, not the quantity. That means we need cost-benefit analysis to justify any expenditure, and what I have seen in the brief period that I have been here—three months—is that there is very little, if any, cost-benefit analysis used. Quite often we see spending used as window-dressing to promote fantasies, to promote propaganda and to promote reputations. That is the first point: spending does not necessarily translate into effective spending.</para>
<para>The second point I raise is that competitive federalism is at the heart of our Constitution. The states are responsible for transport and transport infrastructure. Unfortunately, we have gone so far away from our Constitution that competitive federalism is dying. The Commonwealth has made a mess of education. The Commonwealth has made a mess of health and a mess of the environmental stewardship. Those are just to name a few. We need to give back taxation to the states and let them be responsible for spending, and then we will have far greater accountability—instead of the Commonwealth raising all the funds. We need to restore our Constitution.</para>
<para>This reminds me of a very effective mayor that I met recently while travelling in south-west outback Queensland. Tyson Golder, from the Maranoa Regional Council, is the mayor at Roma. He became mayor on a ticket of handing the power back to the councils, back to the local shires, and that is difficult under the state government laws. But that is something he is working on. He has councillors who have their positions as a result of the amalgamation, so they are hanging onto the power. Nonetheless, we need to do what he is doing—taking the regional council and sending the decisions back to the people in the shire councils. We need to do the same—take what is currently used at the federal government level and move it back to the states. Of course, the federation was formed with the idea of protecting the smaller states that cannot raise the funds. That is a legitimate need, and that has to be addressed, but we need to restore responsibility and accountability in the state governments and let them fund.</para>
<para>The third point I want to make is that South Australia and Victoria now illustrate what is happening under the 'spend, spend, spend without accountability' reputation of these states. The lights have gone out in South Australia, and the last thing we need is a Commonwealth government to bail them out. Now we are talking about massive federal control, or federal oversight, over energy, which is the last thing we need. Queensland has the world's best and cleanest coal, and yet the Palaszczuk government, another Labor government, is shutting down the coal industry. It refuses to invest in coal-fired power stations when we need that. It is the cheapest and most reliable form of electricity, the most stable and the most secure, and the Palaszczuk government, sitting on a treasure-trove of coal, will not use it. We have seen the South Australian Labor government dynamite their last coal-fired power station and shut down their coalmines. We have seen them rely on Victoria, yet Victoria now wants to shut down its Hazelwood plant, so then everyone from South Australia and Victoria will be needing power from Queensland and New South Wales, which will drive up our prices. We need to stop this stupidity, and we must not continue to subsidise stupid state behaviour, fraudulent and dishonest state behaviour, irresponsible state behaviour that is hurting the citizens of South Australia and Victoria.</para>
<para>We have seen Labor states spend money on desalination plants. This is my fourth point. Those plants, with the exception of one of them, have never been used. We have spent billions of dollars—I believe the figure is around $10 billion—and they have never been used. We have achieved nothing. That is not investment in the future; that is waste. If we do not get a return on our investment, if we have nothing to show for it, then we will go broke. But we will have the Greens parroting on about renewable energy and water from desalination plants that never materialises.</para>
<para>We need to fix the systems in this parliament to ensure accountability and to stop the waste of funding. Instead of speaking to sell, more politicians in this building need to listen to learn. Instead of using taxpayer funds as bidding on an auction for a reputation for votes, we need to restore accountability and cost-benefit analysis. We need to restore competitive federalism. We want productive spending that is investment, so I do not accept the Labor Party's motion that we need to increase spending. The Turnbull government, for all its many ills and shortcomings, cannot be labelled incompetent or lacking simply because it has not spent enough money in the Labor Party's eyes, because they are spendthrift eyes. I disagree with the Labor Party motion.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>94</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Consideration</title>
          <page.no>94</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>97</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Consideration</title>
          <page.no>97</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>AUDITOR-GENERAL'S REPORTS</title>
        <page.no>98</page.no>
        <type>AUDITOR-GENERAL'S REPORTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Consideration</title>
          <page.no>98</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>99</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Select Committee on Wind Turbines</title>
          <page.no>99</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Report</title>
            <page.no>99</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:56</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BACK</name>
    <name.id>J7Q</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I thank the chamber for its indulgence to speak on the government's response to the report of the Senate Select Committee on Wind Turbines. I know I am amongst friends on both sides. The Senate Select Committee on Wind Turbines reported to the Senate on 3 August in 2015. The government did not respond to the recommendations until 8 December 2016, some 16 months after the select committee had put its report into the Senate. That is exceedingly disappointing given the amount of work that was done.</para>
<para>In March 2016, the chair of the committee, Senator John Madigan, moved a motion signed by the crossbench members requesting the government response by 10 May 2016. Parliament was dissolved for the election, so that did not happen. On the first sitting day of this parliament, the 45th Parliament, on 30 August, Senator Leyonhjelm lodged a motion signed by every member of the new Senate crossbench asking the government to respond by 21 November 2016. So it is somewhat disappointing, then, that we have only just had the government's response now.</para>
<para>There were 491 submissions to the committee. The committee, under the chairmanship of then Senator Madigan and the deputy chairmanship of then Senator Day, held eight public hearings across Australia. An enormous amount of work was undertaken. I take this opportunity to thank all members of the community who wrote submissions and came forward to provide evidence. It was very, very emotional for many of them. In some instances submissions needed to remain confidential for people's personal safety. In fact, there were many, many witnesses who had great apprehension about appearing before the committee. Also, whilst I am thanking people, I take the opportunity to thank the secretariat for the work that they did.</para>
<para>There were 15 important recommendations in the report that addressed the ongoing issues associated with industrial wind turbines in Australia. I must say that they are recommendations that have remained without response until now. I am sure Senator Leyonhjelm will have his own comment to make on that as well.</para>
<para>During the time since we had the inquiry, we have seen the wheels come off the wagon of the renewable sector, particularly that which resides in industrial wind turbines. You do not have to think back too far—you only have to think back to this time yesterday when, as usual, in South Australia, where some 40 per cent of energy is now supplied by renewables if the wind blows, the wind did not blow, so South Australia suffered what probably might be its fifth blackout since August-September last year. At the time, in the minds of many people this particular issue was unimportant. In fact there was a degree of ridiculed associated with this inquiry, the conduct of it and the people who were appearing. I can assure you that the people of South Australia are not laughing today. They are very, very concerned about the circumstance of a state that cannot keep the lights on and cannot keep the power up: businesses losing staff, losing money and going to the wall. This is probably not the most important in terms of overall scale, but in the big blackout in the spring of 2016 they were so ill prepared in South Australia that the airport could not operate, hospitals could not operate, surgeons had to stop operating in theatres; but, worst of all, the Flinders Medical School, which held the frozen embryos and hopes of so many families in South Australia, could not keep up the power, and those frozen embryos were destroyed. I think that is a real personal indication of what we are talking about and the impact on families that occurred.</para>
<para>In the time left to me I want to focus on two of the recommendations. Recommendation 14 was:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The committee recommends that the Australian Government direct the Productivity Commission to conduct research into the impact of wind power electricity generation on retail electricity prices.</para></quote>
<para>It has to be done. We are getting so much conflicting information from so many different sources around this country from those who support renewables, particularly industrial-wind-turbine-generated power, to those like me who do not, although I declare myself to be a strong supporter of renewable energy, for example through solar, tide, wave action and of course hydroelectricity. But it is the case that this analysis has not been done. We are 16 years into a renewable energy scheme and nobody knows the cost.</para>
<para>We do know that the cost of subsidising industrial wind turbines is massive. As we draw closer to 2020 the shortfall charge payments could reach $1.5 billion a year, or more than $20 billion by 2030. Indeed, it is possible, if the policies of some of the governments of this country come into place, that we could be seeing a figure of $40 billion in cost by 2030. That is $1,600 for every man, woman and child in this country. I do not think consumers know that when a wind turbine generates electricity in this country they are paying $850,000 per wind turbine per year by way of subsidies. That is when they actually generate anything and sell any power. As I said, only yesterday we had a situation in which South Australia could not keep the lights on. The spot price for electricity hit $14,000 per megawatt hour. In any event the forward spot price for electricity in South Australia at the moment is $150 per megawatt hour, while it is only $50 in Victoria. But do not let the Victorians get any relief out of this, because their state Labor government, having made the decision to close coal-fired power stations, is also rushing towards a so-called renewable platform. I can tell them that they are rushing towards an absolute train wreck. A cost-benefit analysis of the effect of wind turbines has never been so important. The results will show that the nation, now and certainly should the federal Labor Party come to government and enact a 50 per cent renewable energy policy, is absolutely and utterly unsustainable.</para>
<para>The second recommendation to which I refer is recommendation 15:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The Renewable Energy Target should be amended so that all new investments in renewable energy between 2015 and 2020 will be eligible to create renewable energy certificates for a period of no more than five years—</para></quote>
<para>—accepting the grandfathering of those that were already in existence. Indeed, because we have the excellent system of the Emissions Reduction Fund organised by the coalition government through direct action on climate change, we do have Australian carbon credit units. I believe and the committee believed at that time that there is a tremendous opportunity to morph from these renewable energy certificates, which at the moment are at a cost of about $88 per certificate and apparently relieving about one tonne of carbon dioxide, through to the carbon credit units, which are about $10 to $11 per unit and again are giving about one tonne of carbon dioxide equivalent.</para>
<para>At the time, the comment kept being made, and even in its response the government said that it 'notes that wind farm approvals are a matter for individual state and territory governments'. I have had long discussions with the federal minister. I have spoken in this place and in the public arena. If we look at the events in South Australia in the last few days and the events that we are going to see in Victoria, Tasmania and particularly in Queensland, which says that it is going to 50 per cent renewables, I have to say that the community of Australia expects the federal government to take a leadership role in the provision of safe, sustainable, reliable and economic power. It is fundamental to all Australians that this happens. The states who have undertaken this have failed, and I believe the recommendations of this report remain current today.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:07</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LEYONHJELM</name>
    <name.id>111206</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak on the government's response to the final report of the Senate select committee report on wind turbines. I was a member of that committee and contributed significantly to both its interim and final reports. I have taken a keen interest in ensuring that those reports did not gather dust, like so many other reports have done. In fact, we had some success in getting the government to respond to the interim report. But I regret to say its response to the final report has been anything but praiseworthy.</para>
<para>The committee submitted its final report to the Senate on 3 August 2015. On 16 March 2016, the chair of the committee, Senator John Madigan, moved a motion signed by the Senate crossbench calling on the government to respond by 10 May 2016. No response was received, and parliament was dissolved the day before that. On the first sitting day of the 45th Parliament, 30 August 2016, I lodged a motion signed by every single member of the new Senate crossbench asking for the government's response to the inquiry to be laid on the table by 21 November 2016. On 21 November there was still no government response. In fact, the government did not respond until 8 December 2016—16 months after the report was tabled. The required time for responding to Senate reports is three months. This is a mockery of our Senate process.</para>
<para>Now that it has responded, there are several aspects about its response that warrant comment. One of the priorities of the inquiry was to examine the impact of wind farms on those living and working in close proximity to them. The committee heard how some of these people were suffering ill health, that their health improved when they moved away and deteriorated when they returned. It heard how these health effects were not understood by the medical world, were commonly dismissed and that the suffering of those affected was made worse by their shabby treatment. It heard how the wind industry and its cheerleaders in the media, academia and health belittled those adversely affected. One retired academic with no qualifications or even expertise in medical matters promoted the lie that only people in English-speaking countries were claiming to be adversely affected.</para>
<para>Some plausible explanations were put forward to explain the ill-health effects, mostly relating to infrasound or very low-frequency soundwaves. Evidence was given that infrasound is a known cause of ill health in humans and that wind turbines emit infrasound. What we do not have is confirmation that the infrasound emitted by wind farms is sufficient to cause adverse health effects. Not everyone is affected, and those affected are not always invariably affected. As one who is easily affected by seasickness when others are not, I did not find that very difficult to understand. But, apparently, it is good enough for the wind industry, or 'big wind', as I describe them and their shills, to discredit those poor individuals who are made ill.</para>
<para>The committee also heard how the process for approving wind farms was a farce, with state policies ranging from non-existent to something that might as well not exist. It heard about: buck-passing between state governments and local governments, with nobody accepting responsibility for outcomes; how, once a wind farm is built, nobody is interested in whether it complies with its approval conditions; and that those approval conditions do not even include infrasound.</para>
<para>Some of these problems were highlighted in the interim report of the committee. Based on that report, I led a crossbench delegation to see then Prime Minister, Mr Abbott, to accept some of the recommendations. That led to the creation of the position of wind farm commissioner, the establishment of an independent committee to advise the minister and the commitment of funds to a proper scientific investigation of the health effects of wind farms. The wind farm commissioner has made some progress towards dealing with some of these issues. Complainants now have someone who will listen, and at least some wind farm operators now realise they should cooperate in investigating why people are getting sick. I understand they might even agree to release their operating data so that it can be correlated against symptoms. That would, indeed, be progress.</para>
<para>But, beyond that, very little has changed. In particular, there were some very important recommendations in the final report that have not been treated seriously by the government in its response. The government has observed that wind farm approvals are a matter for individual state and territory governments and that it, therefore, cannot address the manifest inadequacies in their regulatory regimes. This is profoundly wrong. Unless a wind farm meets Commonwealth requirements, renewable energy certificates cannot be issued. Without the certificates, the wind farm cannot sell them to electricity retailers. And selling certificates is its source of revenue. A wind farm needs the Commonwealth government more than it needs a state government. The Commonwealth is abdicating its responsibilities.</para>
<para>The government response says state government planning regulations require a noise monitoring regime as part of wind farm development approvals for both approval and operational stages. This is not always true. And, in any case, no state requires monitoring of infrasound. The response says the government is moving to develop national wind farm guidelines. This should be a priority, given its significance to state governments. It is a golden opportunity to address the impact of wind farms that were raised in evidence. And, yet, the government is dragging the chain.</para>
<para>The response says the government does not want the Productivity Commission to examine the impact of renewable energy, of which wind is the main component. Its impact on electricity prices was discussed by Senator Back in the previous address. The government says that the Australian Energy Market Commission produces an annual report on retail electricity price trends and that it does not believe further analysis is required by the Productivity Commission at this time. When is the right time to find out how much this utterly indefensible policy is costing the Australian economy or what the social harm being caused by energy poverty is? Do poor people have to die of cold or heat exhaustion before the insanity of ever-rising electricity prices is stopped?</para>
<para>Australia's postwar prosperity is attributable to the fact that we had a reliable source of cheap energy. Cheap, coal-fired power is what has kept the lights on and people in jobs for over a century. It also ensured that everyone could afford to stay warm in winter and cool in summer, no matter whether they were poor or rich. That is no longer the case. How many dead people are an acceptable price for Australia's contribution to combating climate change? I seek leave to continue my remarks later.</para>
<para>Leave granted; debate adjourned.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Joint Standing Committee on Treaties</title>
          <page.no>101</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Report</title>
            <page.no>101</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:15</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McALLISTER</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak on Report 167 of the Joint Standing Committee on Treaties. The report deals with a number of treaties, but I intend to focus my remarks this evening on the extradition treaty with China.</para>
<para>Although Labor members support the intent of some of the committee's recommendations regarding the extradition treaty with China, we cannot endorse them. The majority report makes a number of recommendations aimed at protecting the human rights of extradited persons. However, these recommendations do not fully address the serious reservations that the committee itself has expressed in the majority report. Accordingly, Labor members submitted a dissenting report indicating we do not believe binding treaty action should be taken at this time.</para>
<para>Labor recognises the value of extradition treaties, which includes combating crime and acting as an instrument of international relations. Australia has ratified bilateral extradition treaties with 39 countries. In coming years, this chamber will no doubt consider more. In our increasingly globalised world, it is in Australia's interest to build robust and transparent extradition relationships—relationships that prevent individuals exploiting national boundaries to escape justice.</para>
<para>However, extradition also enlivens serious questions of human rights. When Australia surrenders a person to another nation, we are placing faith in the adequacy and propriety of their criminal justice system. The committee heard evidence that Australia was responsible under international law for human rights violations suffered by a person once extradited. Perhaps more significantly, as the committee has previously noted:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Australia has a moral obligation to protect the human rights of extradited persons …</para></quote>
<para>Australia's ability to do so depends on the interaction between our extradition framework and the specific terms of any extradition treaty. Labor members have concerns about that interaction in the current case. Submitters, including the Law Council of Australia, raised concerns in their evidence about the limitations of the Commonwealth Extradition Act. These include concerns about limited protections for the right to a fair trial, limited evidentiary thresholds for determining an extradition request, the definition of a political offence, insufficient protections for children and inadequate monitoring of the outcomes of an extradition. These concerns are not new, but they take on a particular potency in the context of this present treaty.</para>
<para>China has not ratified the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights. In the majority report, it states:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The Committee cannot dismiss concerns over the lack of transparency in the Chinese justice system, allegations of the ill-treatment and torture of prisoners, and the continuing imposition of the death penalty.</para></quote>
<para>Despite this, the treaty omits a common safeguard that allows for Australia to refuse extradition where it would be unjust or oppressive. The committee heard evidence that the absence of this provision significantly impedes Australia's ability to respond to the risks so explicitly identified in the committee's main report. In doing so, this treaty diverges from 10 of our other bilateral extradition treaties, as well as the Extradition (Commonwealth Countries) Regulations, which cover fifty Commonwealth countries. Taken together, the deficiencies in the treaty with China and in Australia's legislative framework for extradition raise concern for Labor members.</para>
<para>In 2011, the House Standing Committee on Social Policy and Legal Affairs inquired into a series of amendments made at that time to our extradition legislation. That committee recommended that the act be subject to a review by the Attorney-General's Department in three years time. The committee has received no evidence that this review took place. Since the passage of that amending legislation five years ago, Australia's network of extradition treaties has grown even further. We now have extradition arrangements with a large range of countries whose legal systems differ in material ways from our own. In the last five years, extradition treaties with India, Vietnam, Uruguay and the United Arab Emirates have entered into force.</para>
<para>Labor members consider that it is time for a proper review of Australia's extradition arrangements. As such, we recommend that binding treaty action for this treaty be delayed until after an independent review of the Extradition Act 1988 to ensure that Australia's extradition system continues to be consistent with community expectations and international legal obligations regarding the rule of law and human rights. I seek leave to continue my remarks later.</para>
<para>Leave granted; debate adjourned.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>ADJOURNMENT</title>
        <page.no>102</page.no>
        <type>ADJOURNMENT</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Western Australia: Agriculture Industry</title>
          <page.no>102</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:20</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SMITH</name>
    <name.id>241710</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Our farmers play an important role in our society, not only because they put food on our tables but because they hold a crucial place in our economy and in our culture. For many years our nation's economic fortunes rode upon the sheep's back, and, especially in my home state of Western Australia, broadacre cropping and livestock production continue to be the major regional economic activity—especially with the downturn in the mining and resources sector.</para>
<para>In Western Australia, 2016 proved to be an exciting year for agriculture, and 2017 looks as though it has the potential to be even better. Record pasture yields last year had many graziers celebrating their best season in five decades, a turn of fortune that is expected to flow into the coming season as well. At the same time, across WA's north, cattle stations in the Kimberley have had an ideal start to the year with steady, consistent falls of rain. Despite numerous setbacks over the past year, including frost and waterlogging, WA's grain growers were still able to deliver the largest crop in the state's history, at 16.5 million tonnes. This is an outstanding achievement, especially when one considers that there are approximately 4,250 grain growers across Western Australia and that they are farming in some of the most challenging conditions on the planet.</para>
<para>These growers have been provided a high level of certainty for 2017 and beyond, thanks to the WA Liberal government repealing one of the last remaining pieces of legislation strangling WA growers, that being the previous Labor state government's Genetically Modified Crops Free Areas Act. This means that Western Australia's growers are allowed the freedom to choose which types of crops they will grow without meddlesome government intervention and regulation. This includes the freedom to grow GM canola, a crop which previously could only be grown under an exemption order. This is an immensely valuable crop for our state. Indeed, the 2016 harvest alone was estimated to be worth more than $200 million, and that value is reflected in take-up by growers. GM canola is now is the most heavily adopted cropping technology across Western Australia. So valuable and so popular has it become that even the WA Labor Party has been dragged kicking and screaming to recognise this point.</para>
<para>In the second week of 2017, WA Labor executed one of the greatest backflips since Nadia Comeneci scored perfect 10 in the Montreal Olympics. At long last, they have abandoned their impossible dream to prevent the growing of genetically modified crops in Western Australia by lifting a ban on the growing of GM crops. WA Labor's agricultural spokesman, Mick Murray, has finally conceded that the growth of GM in WA could not be stopped. The fact that something so blindingly obvious took so long to be understood by WA's alternative agriculture minister is deeply troubling and still speaks to Labor's fundamental inability to grasp agricultural issues central to WA's future economic prosperity. This leaves the WA Greens as the lone voice of opposition to the growing of GM crops. I am sure that is a fact not lost on the tens of thousands of voters in the agricultural region of Western Australia who will cast their vote at the state election in March. And, if a potential WA Labor government were reliant on the Greens to pass its legislation, you can bet for sure they would sell out WA's farmers in a flash.</para>
<para>Despite Western Australia being traditionally known as a top producer of bulk products, focus in regional WA has increasingly been shifting towards premium, high-quality products, including premium wines, truffles and seafood. This shift is expected to see the WA agricultural industry, which is currently worth $7.8 billion, double in value over the next 10 years. This strong growth in niche, premium food products has been fuelled primarily by the rising demand from China's emerging affluent middle class and the ever steady increase in cultural tourism. In a timely release, yesterday the Menzies Research Centre launched a new publication, authored by Andrew Bragg, titled <inline font-style="italic">Fit for service: Meeting the demand of the Asian middle class</inline>. As the publication notes, exporting to this market will be critical in determining our future economic success, with the emerging middle class in the Asian region expected to number some three billion people by 2030. When it comes to WA's products in particular, we know they are among the world's best. It is up to us to make that understood in Asia, as well as at home in Perth. It is worth remembering that Australia's quarter-century of uninterrupted economic growth was fundamentally established by trade liberalisation, reducing subsidies and cutting tariffs. The neo-protectionist approach, which is currently enjoying some measure of popularity, even in this Senate, has never shown itself capable of producing similar runs of economic growth. And I confidently predict it never will.</para>
<para>The core task is clear: to encourage people to visit Western Australia and to experience the quality of our premium goods whilst here, and then to continue purchasing them when they return to their homes in other places in the world. This approach has driven the success of WA's premium wine industry, which has capitalised on meeting the appetites of tourists. The industry is set to experience further growth, thanks to the Turnbull government's recently announced changes to the wine equalisation tax. These measures not only address the inequality between WA fine wine producers and bulk and unbranded winemakers in the east but also introduce a new Wine Tourism and Cellar Door grant scheme, designed to offset the reduction of the WET rebate cap from $500,000 to $350,000. It also recognises the important role played by the wine industry in creating jobs and investment opportunities across regional Australia. The government's comprehensive response to the concerns of WA's wine industry representatives, its preparedness to seek improvements to the original reforms and a willingness to understand the unique nature of wine tourism and the regional economies it supports have meant the final outcomes are better that they could have possibly first imagined.</para>
<para>The same can be said for another one of the Turnbull government's outcomes—one that began last week —supporting the refurbishment of the Busselton-Margaret River Regional Airport. This $60 million project not only will allow direct flights to and from the eastern states but also, thanks to the federal government's Building Better Regions program, will see the runway length increased to cater for important international airfreight. This $9.78 million investment will make Busselton the first major regional freight hub in Western Australia, increase regional employment, support new and emerging markets, and provide a least-cost pathway for farmers, fishers, winemakers, horticulturalists and exporters. That includes exporters like south-west meat processor V&V Walsh, who last year became the first red meat processor in Australia to receive full accreditation from Chinese authorities to export chilled sheep, goat and beef meat, providing a market for a further 500,000 lambs each year. It can also assist the state's largest beef abattoir, Harvey Beef, which has invested over $30 million in upgrading the chiller capacity and retail-ready packaging facilities to meet the growing international demand for beef and sheep meat. Winemakers, fishermen, fruit and vegetable growers, dairy farmers and cut flower suppliers are also set to benefit from a direct air link with China and South-East Asia.</para>
<para>Early last year, Volga Dnepr, operators of the Antonov An-225 Mriya, the world's largest plane, met with the City of Busselton to discuss using the airport as a regional transport hub flying direct to Singapore. Ocean Grown Abalone, located at Flinders Bay, is the world's first abalone sea ranch and will produce 100 tonnes by 2018, primarily for airfreight to the Chinese market. WA's avocado farmers are experiencing a huge increase in avocado production as strong demand for the fruit continues to grow throughout the country. Over 40 per cent of all avocados grown in Australia are grown in WA's south-west, primarily for the eastern domestic market.</para>
<para>These are just some of the tremendous examples of the exciting future for agriculture in my home state of Western Australia, a future made possible not only through the science and research that has been going into developing new products such as truffles, or the commercial farming of abalone, but through the innovation and the determination of Western Australia's primary producers.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Housing Affordability</title>
          <page.no>104</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:29</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>In many of our capital cities and surrounding regions, home ownership is a pipedream for young Australians. Home ownership is declining, while the number of Australians in rental accommodation is increasing. According to a recent report by CoreLogic, the largest property data and analytics company in the world, addressing the issue of housing affordability is a complex task, which is multidimensional, multi-disciplinary and requires the cooperation of local, state and federal governments, as well as the private sector.</para>
<para>CoreLogic's December 2016 report identifies a range of issues affecting housing affordability, including: a disproportionate level of investment in housing, low interest rates, shallow returns from bonds and cash, and high volatility across equity in the commodity markets. This has resulted in increased investment demand in housing. We also see high transaction costs, expensive stamp duty, a lack of decentralisation in major working centres, reduced affordability around city centres and insufficient transport linkages to outlying, greenfield housing locations. CoreLogic have identified that range of issues as ones that lead to a complex problem that needs complex solutions. Simply doing what the coalition has said would fix the problem, and that is to increase supply and move away from your job and your relatives and your friends to regional New South Wales or regional areas across the country, is an absolute nonsense.</para>
<para>CoreLogic have utilised four measures in their report: the ratio of dwelling prices to annual household income, the proportion of household income required for a 20 per cent deposit, the proportion of household income required to service an 80 per cent loan and the proportion of income required to pay the rent. In Sydney, the median dwelling price was $785,000, compared to $525,000 five years ago. The median annual household income is $93,593, compared to $75,088 five years ago. The dwelling price-to-income ratio has increased from seven to 8.4 in five years. The percentage of annual household income required for a 20 per cent deposit has increased from 140 per cent to 168 per cent over five years. This equates to $157,000, or 168 per cent of the annual household income. This is the key factor in stopping young Australians from accessing housing in this country.</para>
<para>We were told by the Deputy Prime Minister, Barnaby Joyce, that if you go to regional New South Wales everything will be okay. In regional New South Wales, a 20 per cent deposit on the median-priced dwelling now costs $81,000, equating to 133 per cent of the annual household income. What you have to understand is that the median annual household income in regional New South Wales is much less than in metropolitan Sydney, which, as I indicated earlier, is $93,593. But in regional New South Wales it is $60,959. So when you move to regional New South Wales, if you can find a job, the median income from that job is massively reduced compared to that in Sydney.</para>
<para>The Deputy Prime Minister's simplistic solution to the housing crisis is that everyone moves to the regions for affordable housing. If only it were that simple. You would still need to pay 35.2 per cent of your annual income to service an 80 per cent LVR loan. If you are renting in regional New South Wales, the percentage of annual household income required to pay the rent is 29.9 per cent, compared to 20.9 per cent in Sydney. So, actually, the percentage of your income required for rent in regional New South Wales is higher than in Sydney.</para>
<para>The lower median annual household income, the lack of jobs and the fact that Australians living in rural and remote areas tend to have lower life expectancy, higher rates of disease and injury, and poor access to the use of health services than people living in major cities also has to be factored in. In addition, NAPLAN results show that kids in regional areas are way behind children in metropolitan areas, with 2.6 per cent of kids below the national minimum standard for year 3 reading, compared to 4.5 per cent of kids in regional areas. This increases to 12.4 per cent for kids in remote areas and a shocking 36.4 per cent for kids in very remote areas. The $30 billion the Turnbull government is cutting from needs-based school funds means that many regional schools with high levels of disadvantage will never receive the money they need to help these kids catch up. This is the reality behind the glib, simplistic rhetoric of the Deputy Prime Minister.</para>
<para>Labor understands—as does CoreLogic—that this is a complex issue. We have said that, to ensure that there is a fair go, we need to deal with capital gains tax and negative gearing. In fact, the latest statistics from the ABS show that investors comprise 47 per cent of mortgage demand. Investors account for more than 55 per cent of mortgage demand across the New South Wales market. Fifty-five per cent of the loans going out are to investors, and that is why you have to deal with capital gains tax and negative gearing.</para>
<para>We know that the Treasurer has headed off to the UK to have a look at bond aggregators. Labor is not opposed to a bond aggregator. We have looked at bond aggregators. We think that they can help build social housing across the country, but we also believe that the National Rental Affordability Scheme that this government cut was one of the best schemes ever for increasing the amount of affordable social housing in areas where workers needed to be and where families could not afford to live. The NRAS was a good scheme.</para>
<para>We need to look at long-term transparency and accountability within the national partnership agreement on homelessness, and we need NAHA to help transparency, accountability and growth. We also need to look, as I have been advised around the country, at inclusionary zoning that is being practised in the UK. Where developers are building in London, 50 per cent of the build has to go to social housing or some alternative payment to allow social housing to be developed. These are absolutely essential issues that are not being done here. Older women and young people coming out of care are more and more going into homelessness and positions of hopelessness.</para>
<para>Rental security, uniform tenancy standards—these are all issues that need to be looked at if we are looking at how we deal with rental and housing affordability. The position the government has adopted is simplistic, it is absolutely stupid and it will not solve the problem for young people who cannot access the market.</para>
<para>Senate adjourned at 18:40</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>105</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Tabling</title>
          <page.no>105</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1></debate>
  </chamber.xscript>
</hansard>