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  <session.header>
    <date>2014-07-17</date>
    <parliament.no>44</parliament.no>
    <session.no>1</session.no>
    <period.no>3</period.no>
    <chamber>Senate</chamber>
    <page.no>0</page.no>
    <proof>0</proof>
  </session.header>
  <chamber.xscript>
    <business.start>
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        <p style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;" class="HPS-SODJobDate">
          <span class="HPS-SODJobDate">
            <span style="font-weight:bold;"></span>
            <a type="" href="Chamber">Thursday, 17 July 2014</a>
          </span>
        </p>
        <p style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;" class="HPS-Normal">
          <span class="HPS-Normal">
            <span style="font-weight:bold;">The PRESIDENT (Senator the Hon. </span>
            <span style="font-weight:bold;">Stephen Parry)</span> took the chair at 09:30, read prayers and made an acknowledgement of country.</span>
        </p>
      </body>
    </business.start>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BUSINESS</title>
        <page.no>5231</page.no>
        <type>BUSINESS</type>
      </debateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:31</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Wong</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I am on my feet. Point of order, Chair; I'm on my feet.</para>
<para>Government senators interjecting—</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! I will recognise the Leader of the Government in the Senate, Senator Abetz, first, as would be ordinary practice. There is no question before the chair, but if anyone is seeking leave to speak.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Wong</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I am seeking leave—</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Wong, I have recognised Senator Abetz, if he is seeking leave.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Wong</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Sorry; you gave him the call and he is silent, so I think I should have the opportunity to make a contribution, if I may, Mr President.</para>
<para>Opposition senators interjecting—</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order!</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Ian Macdonald</name>
    <name.id>YW4</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>You're just having a chat are you?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Wong</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>No, your leader is having a chat, Senator Macdonald!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Abetz, are you seeking leave?</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Abetz</name>
    <name.id>N26</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>If you will just bear with us, Mr President.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! Senator Abetz, I need to know whether you are going to seek leave or not seek leave. I will give you one opportunity if you wish to seek leave. I am sorry to both of the leaders. The Senate must proceed; we cannot have discussions like this.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BILLS</title>
        <page.no>5231</page.no>
        <type>BILLS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Clean Energy Legislation (Carbon Tax Repeal) Bill 2014, True-up Shortfall Levy (General) (Carbon Tax Repeal) Bill 2014, True-up Shortfall Levy (Excise) (Carbon Tax Repeal) Bill 2014, Customs Tariff Amendment (Carbon Tax Repeal) Bill 2014, Excise Tariff Amendment (Carbon Tax Repeal) Bill 2014, Ozone Protection and Synthetic Greenhouse Gas (Import Levy) Amendment (Carbon Tax Repeal) Bill 2014, Ozone Protection and Synthetic Greenhouse Gas (Manufacture Levy) Amendment (Carbon Tax Repeal) Bill 2014, Ozone Protection and Synthetic Greenhouse Gas (Import Levy) (Transitional Provisions) Bill 2014</title>
          <page.no>5232</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
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            <p>
              <a type="Bill" href="r5311">
                <p style="page-break-after:avoid;direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;" class="HPS-SubDebate">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Clean Energy Legislation (Carbon Tax Repeal) Bill 2014</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <a type="Bill" href="r5317">
                <p style="page-break-after:avoid;direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;" class="HPS-SubDebate">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">True-up Shortfall Levy (General) (Carbon Tax Repeal) Bill 2014</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <a type="Bill" href="r5316">
                <p style="page-break-after:avoid;direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;" class="HPS-SubDebate">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">True-up Shortfall Levy (Excise) (Carbon Tax Repeal) Bill 2014</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <a type="Bill" href="r5310">
                <p style="page-break-after:avoid;direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;" class="HPS-SubDebate">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Customs Tariff Amendment (Carbon Tax Repeal) Bill 2014</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <a type="Bill" href="r5312">
                <p style="page-break-after:avoid;direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;" class="HPS-SubDebate">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Excise Tariff Amendment (Carbon Tax Repeal) Bill 2014</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <a type="Bill" href="r5315">
                <p style="page-break-after:avoid;direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;" class="HPS-SubDebate">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Ozone Protection and Synthetic Greenhouse Gas (Import Levy) Amendment (Carbon Tax Repeal) Bill 2014</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <a type="Bill" href="r5313">
                <p style="page-break-after:avoid;direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;" class="HPS-SubDebate">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Ozone Protection and Synthetic Greenhouse Gas (Manufacture Levy) Amendment (Carbon Tax Repeal) Bill 2014</span>
                </p>
              </a>
            </p>
            <a type="Bill" href="r5314">
              <p style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;" class="HPS-SubDebate">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Ozone Protection and Synthetic Greenhouse Gas (Import Levy) (Transitional Provisions) Bill 2014</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>In Committee</title>
            <page.no>5232</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:33</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The CHAIRMAN</name>
    <name.id>00AOP</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The committee is considering the Clean Energy Legislation (Carbon Tax Repeal) Bill 2014 and seven related bills. The question is that, in respect of the Clean Energy Legislation (Carbon Tax Repeal) Bill 2014, opposition amendment (3) on sheet 7527 moved by Senator Singh be agreed to.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:33</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak in support of this amendment but also in the context of the ending of this committee debate—I anticipate, because the government has made clear that it intends to gag and guillotine this debate if it is not concluded shortly. It is very clear that the deals have been done and the government is likely, finally, to have the numbers in this chamber to end an effective response to climate change.</para>
<para>I was in this chamber when the CPRS, the Carbon Pollution Reduction Scheme—something which would have introduced a market mechanism, a floating price for carbon—was voted down by this Senate. The reason it was voted down on that day, the fundamental reason, is the same reason this legislation is likely to be voted down today—that is, a man called Mr Tony Abbott. He decided that it was in his political interest not to look to what was responsible, not to look to what was right, not to look to an effective, credible response to climate change, but to stake his political career, his political ambitions, on fearmongering and scaremongering. That is what this debate has been about for years. It has been about Mr Tony Abbott wanting the leadership of the Liberal Party, wanting to be Prime Minister and staking his political campaign on fearmongering. The man who told us that Whyalla would be wiped off the map now cannot even guarantee to Australians that they will get the sorts of price reductions that he campaigned on for years.</para>
<para>If these bills pass today, it will be a day in history where this parliament failed the test of leadership, failed the test of rising above opportunistic politics and short-term sectional interest to act in the national interest. If these bills pass, this nation will have walked away from a credible and effective response to climate change, it will walk away from reducing our greenhouse gas emissions and it will walk away from the task of transforming the Australian economy into the clean energy economy that we have to be in the 21st century. If these bills pass, this nation will be the only nation in the world going backwards when it comes to tackling climate change.</para>
<para>Putting a price on pollution is the most environmentally effective and economically responsible way of reducing greenhouse gas emissions. And I remind those opposite of the journey to populism and fearmongering that they have undertaken—a sorry tale indeed. Let us not forget there was once a bipartisan commitment in this country, half a decade ago, to act on climate change. There was a bipartisan commitment half a decade ago to do the right thing, to do the responsible thing. Those opposite talk about intergenerational responsibility. Senator Cormann talks about not giving a credit card to the next generation. That is precisely what you are doing. You are passing a credit card for all of our inaction on this serious threat of climate change to our children and our grandchildren. It is an absolute abrogation of the responsibility that we have in this place.</para>
<para>Let me remind those opposite of what Mr Howard said in 2007. There is a great YouTube clip that people can go back to. I am quoting:</para>
<quote><para class="block">I will also be announcing a 'cap and trade' emissions trading system that will help Australia substantially lower our domestic greenhouse gas emissions at the lowest cost.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Stabilising atmospheric concentrations of greenhouse gases will be difficult, but not impossible. We do not have to sacrifice our economic prosperity to tackle the problem.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australia will more than play its part to address climate change, but we will do it in a practical and balanced way, in full knowledge of the economic consequences for our nation.</para></quote>
<para>So John Howard in 2007 backed in an emissions trading system, the same as the Labor Party is currently moving in this place—the same principle, the same approach, that Labor is putting to this chamber: an emissions trading scheme to give the most effective response to climate change, a cap on pollution, a price set by the market, firms able to find the cheapest and lowest cost way of reducing the pollution we put into our atmosphere.</para>
<para>The fundamental problem is this: as long as something is free our economy will continue to do it. As long as polluting is free, we will see more and more pollution. We understand that intuitively. We understand that in so many other areas of policy, but on this the government has chosen to go down a path which is opportunistic, which is all about fearmongering. I think future generations will look back on these bills and they will be appalled at the short-sighted, opportunistic, selfish politics of those opposite. Mr Abbott will go down as one of the most short-sighted, opportunistic, selfish and small people ever to occupy the office of Prime Minister.</para>
<para>What we will see and what we are seeing from those opposite are short-sighted politics to dismantle a policy which has been supported by them, by the overwhelming majority of scientists and the overwhelming majority of economists. It is easy to run a campaign against a price on carbon, because you are saying to people: 'What we are doing is polluting the atmosphere and we now have to stop doing that. We have to change how our economy works.' But it could have been done if those in the Liberal Party—Mr Turnbull and other moderates—turned their backs on a man who describes climate change as 'absolute crap' and did the right thing by the nation.</para>
<para>There is a lot of talk in politics today about the need to have the reform imperative—about the need to have the courage to reform. If you look back to the great economic reforms governments have implemented—and I particularly want to talk about the opening up of our economy, the liberalisation of trade, the floating of the dollar under the Hawke and Keating governments—it would have been easy to run scare campaigns on those policies. But there was a modicum of bipartisanship for the betterment of the nation—responsibility being taken at that time for future generations. Where is that now? The man who killed it is the man who occupies the Lodge—or, not the Lodge, Kirribilli. The man who killed it is the man who occupies the office of Prime Minister—a short-sighted, opportunistic scaremonger. That is this Prime Minister.</para>
<para>These bills dismantle a policy which has been in place for two years which is working exactly as it was intended, reducing emissions, reducing pollution while supporting the households of Australia and the competitiveness of our economy. I think future generations will look back at the people who claim the carbon price was a wrecking ball and identify the real wrecker—a Prime Minister who has practised hypocrisy, deception and destructive politics when it comes to the challenge of climate change. We on this side of the chamber accept the science. We on this side of the chamber accept the responsibility to do something in this time for the next generation and we in this chamber will never walk away from a serious and credible response to climate change.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:42</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator URQUHART</name>
    <name.id>231199</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Yesterday I asked the minister a question that I did not get the answer to. I will repeat that question and then I will ask it again after I have read out a couple of letters I have received. My question was: Minister, can you guarantee that average Tasmanian household costs will drop by $550 each and every year, as guaranteed by the Prime Minister? This is a question that not only myself but many Tasmanians are interested in. I received a letter via email from a small-business owner in Tasmania and I want to read it out:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Hi Senator,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Can you advise me how much I can expect to save this financial year by the abolition of the carbon tax.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I have heard that the Government has stated it should be on average $550 however Aurora Energy today advised me that their power charges will not reduce as a result of the carbon tax being taken away. I do recall this being a reason used by them for the increase in the market wholesale price of electricity.</para></quote>
<para>The small-business owner also then sent me a letter that he had received from Aurora Energy, the suppliers in Tasmania:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Dear Customer</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">YOUR AURORA ENERGY CONTRACT PRICES FROM 1 JULY 2014</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We write to you with regard to the prices in your Aurora Energy electricity supply contract that will apply from 1 July 2014, in light of the likely repeal by the Australian Government of the carbon pricing scheme.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">As of 1 July 2014, there will be no change in the price of your supply contract, as the wholesale energy purchasing arrangements which underpin the provision of electricity to you have not changed. There will also be no change to prices in the event of the carbon tax being repealed, as the costs of providing energy to you will remain unchanged with the wholesale energy market having already factored in the probability of the carbon tax being repealed.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">When the time comes to sign a new supply contract with Aurora Energy, the cost of carbon, if there is any, will be captured in the energy pricing that we quote you in your next contract. There will be no separate rate for carbon.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Should you have any questions relating to your contract and the impact of carbon, please do not hesitate to call our Business Sales Team … and we will be able to answer any questions you may have.</para></quote>
<para>So, again, my question is: Minister, can you guarantee that average Tasmanian household costs will drop by $550 each and every year as guaranteed by the Prime Minister?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:45</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CORMANN</name>
    <name.id>HDA</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Firstly, in relation to the last question in terms of electricity price reductions in Tasmania: as I said yesterday, the Office of the Tasmanian Economic Regulator released a statement on 19 June 2014 that electricity prices would fall in real terms by 7.8 per cent with the removal of the carbon tax. In relation to the $550 reduction in cost of living for the average household, that assessment is based on the exact same methodology as used by the previous government when they claimed a reduction in costs of $380 on the basis of replacing the carbon tax with an emissions trading scheme. We are basing our advice to you in relation to this on the exact same methodology that the previous government did.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:46</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator IAN MACDONALD</name>
    <name.id>YW4</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I wanted to ask the minister some questions. I might ask whether he has the figures for the Queensland regulator and what prices would fall in Queensland. I also seek from the minister confirmation that I am not—and I am asking the minister this—living in another world. I heard the Leader of the Opposition filibuster for about 12 minutes at the beginning of this committee session this morning. She did not even pretend to ask a question of the minister. The debates in the Senate, particularly in the committee stage, are intended to allow senators to ask precise questions about the bill and the amendments before the chair.</para>
<para>We heard from the Leader of the Opposition in the Senate—one of the leadership group of the party which went to the 2010 election promising there would be 'no carbon tax under a government I lead' and then, when it got into government, immediately introduced a carbon tax—not a question but just a 12-minute rant to waste the time of this committee and to prevent other senators from asking questions. We got that from that senator who is supposedly the leader of a party in this chamber. You would expect that a leader might, at least, show some responsibility. That is my recollection.</para>
<para>After hearing the Leader of the Opposition, I have to ask the minister whether my recollection is correct in that the Australian people at the last election voted overwhelmingly against the Labor Party and the Greens political party. Is it also true—and is my recollection correct—that it was made very clear for about 2½ years before the last election that the last election would be a referendum on the carbon tax? That is my recollection. But, after hearing the Leader of the Opposition, I must have been on a different planet! Clearly, Australians went to the last election accepting this was a vote on the carbon tax or otherwise. The Australian public answered that question, giving Mr Abbott and his team an overwhelming response—an overwhelming answer—in the election held last year.</para>
<para>Similarly, those senators in this chamber supporting the lied-about carbon tax lost one-fifth of their number. Parties in this chamber which indicated they also opposed the carbon tax—which included the coalition, Palmer United Party, Senator Xenophon, as I recall, and I think Family First, Democratic Labour Party and the Liberal Democrats—did very, very well. And yet, if you heard the Leader of the Opposition in the Senate today, you would think that the Australian public said something else. So my question to the minister is: am I right that the last election was said to be a referendum on the carbon tax? And was the result such that the Australian public spoke?</para>
<para>Senator Wong gets up here and says that she and her colleagues in the Labor Party know everything and know what is best for Australia. She says there are a lot of scientists and economists who also think that this should be abandoned. In the minute I have left to me, I just want to ask again: did the Australian public clearly say at the last election they wanted to get rid of the carbon tax? For all of the economists, for all of the so-called scientists that Senator Wong quotes and for all of those people in the Labor Party who say differently, wasn't it a fact that the Australian people, voting at the last election on what was clearly a referendum on the carbon tax, gave their answer and gave it overwhelmingly?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:51</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CORMANN</name>
    <name.id>HDA</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Macdonald for those questions. He is of course right—the last election was a referendum on the carbon tax. The verdict of the Australian people was very clear: they want the carbon tax gone. That is why the government is determined to deliver on our commitment to the Australian people.</para>
<para>In relation to electricity price determinations by the Queensland regulatory authority, I can indeed confirm that the Queensland Competition Authority has stated that electricity prices would fall by 8.5 per cent in a typical household as result of scrapping the carbon tax.</para>
<para>The CHAIRMAN: The question is that amendment (3) on sheet 7527 moved by Senator Singh be agreed to.</para>
<para> </para>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The committee divided. [09:57]<br />(The Chairman—Senator Marshall)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>32</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Brown, CL</name>
                  <name>Bullock, J.W.</name>
                  <name>Cameron, DN</name>
                  <name>Carr, KJ</name>
                  <name>Collins, JMA</name>
                  <name>Conroy, SM</name>
                  <name>Dastyari, S</name>
                  <name>Di Natale, R</name>
                  <name>Faulkner, J</name>
                  <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                  <name>Ketter, CR</name>
                  <name>Lines, S</name>
                  <name>Ludlam, S</name>
                  <name>Ludwig, JW</name>
                  <name>Marshall, GM</name>
                  <name>McLucas, J</name>
                  <name>Milne, C</name>
                  <name>Moore, CM</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, DM</name>
                  <name>Peris, N</name>
                  <name>Polley, H</name>
                  <name>Rhiannon, L</name>
                  <name>Rice, J</name>
                  <name>Siewert, R</name>
                  <name>Singh, LM</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, AE (teller)</name>
                  <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                  <name>Wong, P</name>
                  <name>Wright, PL</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>37</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Abetz, E</name>
                  <name>Back, CJ</name>
                  <name>Bernardi, C</name>
                  <name>Birmingham, SJ</name>
                  <name>Brandis, GH</name>
                  <name>Bushby, DC</name>
                  <name>Canavan, M.J.</name>
                  <name>Cash, MC</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                  <name>Cormann, M</name>
                  <name>Day, R.J.</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, DJ (teller)</name>
                  <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                  <name>Fifield, MP</name>
                  <name>Heffernan, W</name>
                  <name>Johnston, D</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J</name>
                  <name>Lazarus, GP</name>
                  <name>Leyonhjelm, DE</name>
                  <name>Macdonald, ID</name>
                  <name>Mason, B</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                  <name>Muir, R</name>
                  <name>Nash, F</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, B</name>
                  <name>Parry, S</name>
                  <name>Payne, MA</name>
                  <name>Reynolds, L</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A</name>
                  <name>Ryan, SM</name>
                  <name>Scullion, NG</name>
                  <name>Seselja, Z</name>
                  <name>Sinodinos, A</name>
                  <name>Smith, D</name>
                  <name>Wang, Z</name>
                  <name>Williams, JR</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>3</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Bilyk, CL</name>
                  <name>Edwards, S</name>
                  <name>Lundy, KA</name>
                  <name>Ronaldson, M</name>
                  <name>McEwen, A</name>
                  <name>Xenophon, </name>
                </names>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:59</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator MILNE</name>
    <name.id>ka5</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I move amendments (1) and (2) on sheet 7531 together:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Schedule 2, item 3, page 75 (line 33), omit "electricity; or", substitute "electricity.".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) Schedule 2, item 3, page 75 (line 34), omit paragraph (f) of the definition of <inline font-style="italic">electricity retailer</inline> in section 60A.</para></quote>
<para>Yesterday, I made it fairly clear that the way that the bill is written captures households with solar panels on their roofs and the Royal Children's Hospital, which has a co-generation plant, because the definitions are that an 'entity' includes an individual, the 'energy retailer' definition captures people who produce energy, and 'customer' captures those people who buy energy. I note in today's media:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Martijn Wilder, a partner at Baker & McKenzie, said that “on a plain reading, the law does apply to power sold from solar roof panels” and the letter of the law did not reflect the assurances the minister had given. “At best, it is legally ambiguous,” he said.</para></quote>
<para>At the same time, the ACCC has said that they would be guided by what the minister had said in his second reading speech, but the point here is that the High Court, on several occasions recently, has shown that what parliament intended by legislation means nothing if the statute gives rise to a clear explanation, which, in this case, it does. So the courts will take notice of the law, not what the minister cobbles together in a second reading speech</para>
<para>On that basis, my amendment removes any ambiguity about whether this captures people who are producing electricity from their solar panels, or a hospital that is producing electricity with co-generation, or any other. Since that clearly is not the intention of the legislation we ought to remove the ambiguity from the legislation. That is why I am moving to remove from section 60A, this amendment, section (f), that was put in House, which says:</para>
<para>(f) any other entity who produces electricity in Australia.</para>
<para>By removing that you would remove any ambiguity so that people with solar panels and people who are into co-generation—in hospitals and the like—would not be captured by this piece of legislation. It would leave the ACCC without the burden of having to have on the statute books something that it will not enforce, even though it is the law that it does enforce it.</para>
<para>Our job is to make laws that are clear to people, and not to leave the law ambiguous, which will mean that it will land up somewhere in the courts. So I ask the government, the opposition and other crossbench members to support this amendment to give clarity to the law and to give comfort to people who have solar panels, people who are into co-generation and other people who were never intended to be caught up in this legislation in the first place. I recommend the amendment to the Senate.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:03</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CORMANN</name>
    <name.id>HDA</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The government does not agree to this amendment, which waters down the protection to consumers. The government has made it clear already that the interpretation of 'electricity retailer' is limited to electricity retailers and electricity producers selling electricity, in a wholesale electricity market, to a retailer. This means that small-scale electricity producers such as families and businesses with solar PV on their rooftops are not covered.</para>
<para>The government considers that protections for electricity consumers are an important part of ensuring customers receive the full benefit of the removal of the carbon tax. That is why we have added various new protections to these bills, which will apply to electricity retailers.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:04</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator MILNE</name>
    <name.id>ka5</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The minister is wrong because all the minister is doing is referring to Minister Hunt's second reading speech by saying that that is how they have made it clear that this applies with regard to selling into the wholesale market, but that is not what is in the legislation. So the government is refusing an amendment which clarifies the situation. I think that is a very sad thing.</para>
<para>Before we vote on this amendment I would also like to have the minister clarify what he said yesterday. In here he said yesterday that airlines and supermarkets would be legally required to remove the carbon price. In fact, that is not the case. I note in the ACCC's brief to the big polluters—the Australian Industry Greenhouse Network—that despite the ambiguity in the final form of the repeal bills the ACCC would only enforce price reductions for electricity and gas retailers and bulk importers of synthetic gases used in refrigeration and air-conditioning. They would not be enforcing price reductions anywhere else.</para>
<para>So the minister needs to clarify that. The ACCC is telling people that they would only be doing that. I think this really puts the lie to the government's claim that they will be forcing price reductions on everything. They cannot and they will not. The ACCC went on to say that, under the false and misleading conduct powers, they will be looking at the public statements made by companies in relation to what they have done. But that is a vastly different thing from the enforcement of price reductions.</para>
<para>It is very clear on the record, from the ACCC now, that the only enforceable price reductions will be electricity, gas and synthetic greenhouse gases. For everything else there will be no requirement, and therefore the $550 claims about the community being better off are simply hot air. I would like the minister to clarify: is the government's understanding and intent the same as what the ACCC said yesterday? Isn't that the case?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:06</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CORMANN</name>
    <name.id>HDA</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Milne. Firstly, Senator Milne did not accurately quote what I said to the chamber yesterday. She is right, though: we did go through this in some detail. As I pointed out yesterday, as a result of this bill, the ACCC will have price-monitoring powers under section 60G. The ACCC will be provided with new powers to monitor the prices offered, displayed or advertised of electricity, natural gas, synthetic greenhouse gas, synthetic greenhouse gas equipment and any other goods designated by regulation in relation to the carbon tax repeal.</para>
<para>False or misleading representations are obviously also prohibited, consistent with section 60K, so all corporations—and that includes airlines and others—will be prohibited from making carbon specific false or misleading representations during the effect of the carbon tax repeal on prices. This prohibition covers all goods and services and carries a penalty of up to $1.1 million for a corporation and $220,000 for an individual.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN</name>
    <name.id>140651</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that Greens amendments (1) and (2) on sheet 7531 be agreed to.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The committee divided. [10:14]<br />(The Chairman—Senator Marshall)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>10</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Di Natale, R</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                  <name>Ludlam, S</name>
                  <name>Milne, C</name>
                  <name>Rhiannon, L</name>
                  <name>Rice, J</name>
                  <name>Siewert, R (teller)</name>
                  <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                  <name>Wright, PL</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>45</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Abetz, E</name>
                  <name>Back, CJ</name>
                  <name>Bernardi, C</name>
                  <name>Birmingham, SJ</name>
                  <name>Bullock, J.W.</name>
                  <name>Bushby, DC</name>
                  <name>Canavan, M.J.</name>
                  <name>Cash, MC</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                  <name>Cormann, M</name>
                  <name>Day, R.J.</name>
                  <name>Edwards, S</name>
                  <name>Faulkner, J</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, DJ</name>
                  <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                  <name>Fifield, MP</name>
                  <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J</name>
                  <name>Lazarus, GP</name>
                  <name>Leyonhjelm, DE</name>
                  <name>Lines, S</name>
                  <name>Ludwig, JW</name>
                  <name>Macdonald, ID</name>
                  <name>Madigan, JJ</name>
                  <name>Marshall, GM</name>
                  <name>McEwen, A</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                  <name>Moore, CM</name>
                  <name>Muir, R</name>
                  <name>Nash, F</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, DM</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, B</name>
                  <name>Payne, MA</name>
                  <name>Peris, N</name>
                  <name>Reynolds, L</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A</name>
                  <name>Ryan, SM</name>
                  <name>Seselja, Z</name>
                  <name>Singh, LM</name>
                  <name>Sinodinos, A</name>
                  <name>Smith, D</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, AE (teller)</name>
                  <name>Wang, Z</name>
                  <name>Williams, JR</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names></names>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:17</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SINGH</name>
    <name.id>M0R</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The opposition opposes schedules 2 to 4 in the following terms:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(4) Schedule 2, page 71 (line 1) to page 101 (line 20), to be opposed.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(5) Schedule 3, page 102 (lines 1 to 26), to be opposed.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(6) Schedule 4, page 103 (lines 1 to 29), to be opposed.</para></quote>
<para>I would like to highlight the importance of the Steel Transformation Plan, which this government seeks to abolish in this legislation. Senator Cormann, given the state of manufacturing in this country, I do not understand why you would not keep the Steel Transformation Plan and, given the wrecking this government has done to the car and ship industries, will you justify why the government would not retain any mechanism that improves investment, innovation and competitiveness in the manufacturing sector?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:18</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CORMANN</name>
    <name.id>HDA</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Singh. What is described in an Orwellian fashion as the 'Steel Transformation Plan' was in fact nothing other than a last minute bit of compensation at the behest of various union representatives to repair the injury that the carbon tax was putting into the steel industry. Of course, by getting rid of the carbon tax we remove the injury but we make sure that Australian business can be more competitive again internationally and is able to compete on more of a level playing field. As such, there is absolutely no reason to keep the compensation for an injury that this government is about to remove.</para>
<para>The CHAIRMAN: The question is that schedules 2 to 4 stand as printed.</para>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The committee divided. [10:24]<br />(The Chairman—Senator Marshall)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>38</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Back, CJ</name>
                  <name>Bernardi, C</name>
                  <name>Birmingham, SJ</name>
                  <name>Brandis, GH</name>
                  <name>Bushby, DC</name>
                  <name>Canavan, M.J.</name>
                  <name>Cash, MC</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                  <name>Cormann, M</name>
                  <name>Day, R.J.</name>
                  <name>Edwards, S</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, DJ</name>
                  <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                  <name>Fifield, MP</name>
                  <name>Heffernan, W</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J</name>
                  <name>Lazarus, GP</name>
                  <name>Leyonhjelm, DE</name>
                  <name>Macdonald, ID</name>
                  <name>Madigan, JJ</name>
                  <name>Mason, B</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                  <name>Muir, R</name>
                  <name>Nash, F</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, B</name>
                  <name>Parry, S</name>
                  <name>Payne, MA</name>
                  <name>Reynolds, L</name>
                  <name>Ronaldson, M</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A (teller)</name>
                  <name>Ryan, SM</name>
                  <name>Scullion, NG</name>
                  <name>Seselja, Z</name>
                  <name>Sinodinos, A</name>
                  <name>Smith, D</name>
                  <name>Wang, Z</name>
                  <name>Williams, JR</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>33</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Bilyk, CL</name>
                  <name>Brown, CL</name>
                  <name>Bullock, J.W.</name>
                  <name>Cameron, DN</name>
                  <name>Carr, KJ</name>
                  <name>Collins, JMA</name>
                  <name>Conroy, SM</name>
                  <name>Dastyari, S</name>
                  <name>Di Natale, R</name>
                  <name>Faulkner, J</name>
                  <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                  <name>Ketter, CR</name>
                  <name>Lines, S</name>
                  <name>Ludlam, S</name>
                  <name>Ludwig, JW</name>
                  <name>Marshall, GM</name>
                  <name>McEwen, A</name>
                  <name>McLucas, J</name>
                  <name>Milne, C</name>
                  <name>Moore, CM</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, DM</name>
                  <name>Peris, N</name>
                  <name>Polley, H</name>
                  <name>Rhiannon, L</name>
                  <name>Rice, J</name>
                  <name>Siewert, R</name>
                  <name>Singh, LM</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, AE (teller)</name>
                  <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                  <name>Wright, PL</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names></names>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:27</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SINGH</name>
    <name.id>M0R</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The opposition opposes schedule 5 in the following terms:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(7) Schedule 5, page 104 (line 1) to page 105 (line 4), to be opposed.</para></quote>
<para>Schedule 5 absolutely cripples ARENA. It drops the amount of money available for this very valuable organisation to enable and encourage development in critical renewable energy projects. That value of projects funded to date, we know, has been unquestionable. Australia has all the raw ingredients and talent required to be a world leader in renewable energy development and commercialisation and yet this government is trying to rip the heart out of ARENA, cripple its funding, take Australia backwards, take a whole new investment in renewable energy backwards, which surely is an economic driver of innovation and prosperity for our nation. We do not support the government's schedule.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:28</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator MILNE</name>
    <name.id>ka5</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Greens oppose schedule 5 in the following terms:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(7) Schedule 5, page 104 (line 1) to page 105 (line 4), to be opposed.</para></quote>
<para>I am moving the same amendment, because it is critically important that we keep the Australian Renewable Energy Agency. For the benefit of people thinking about this, we set up the Australian Renewable Energy Agency as part of the deliberations of the Clean Energy Package. At the time, renewable energy projects, grants, the Solar Flagships and so on were all across the government. It was a complete mess, and so we pulled together all of the renewable energy programs and we set up a new statutory authority, the Australian Renewable Energy Agency, and it was linked to the Clean Energy Finance Corporation so that you had the whole spectrum from early research and development, pilot stage to the commercialisation of these projects.</para>
<para>It was a very good piece of architecture in terms of legislation. It meant that, as the Clean Energy Finance Corporation project started to make money, the profits would be cycled back through to ARENA to fund early research and development so it would become a self-sustaining system of money going back in. The government has a schedule to abolish the clean energy bills and to take a vast amount of money out of ARENA. As the government has proposed, over the next three years, if the government's schedule stands, ARENA's funding would drop from just over a billion dollars down to $341 million. In other words, if you vote for the bill as it stands, you are voting to take $717 million out of the Australian Renewable Energy Agency. What does that mean? It means ARENA will not be able to fund new projects. Effectively, what they do need is $150 million a year to keep the high-quality research and development moving. If you end up with only $89 million in 2014-15 and $59 million the following year, you end up with no new projects. ARENA has 152 projects in their pipeline worth $5.6 billion in investment that will just disappear. This is our reality.</para>
<para>We already have companies out today—for example, GE, a US multinational and one of Australia's largest foreign investors, saying its $3.5 billion pipeline of investment in green energy in this country is at risk because of possible changes to the RET. That is a separate issue, I agree. But it demonstrates how much interest there is in rolling out these technologies across the country. So it is a very bad mistake for the government to be taking $717 million out. I have heard some crossbench senators say that they want to save ARENA. You do not save a renewable energy agency by taking $717 million out of it over the next three years and leaving it with no ability to fund new projects.</para>
<para>Secondly, the ARENA board have all now had their positions ceased because their contracts have all run out and as of the 17th, I think it is, there are none of them with an ongoing contract. Yesterday in the Senate, as a result of the motion that I moved, the Senate asked the government to reappoint people to the ARENA board. If this motion is unsuccessful and they lose $717 million, and they have no board anymore—the secretary of the department is effectively heading ARENA, overseeing their existing projects—frankly, by the time the bill comes in later this year to save ARENA, it will be a shell of its former self. You either vote to keep ARENA as it is with the ability to fund the projects in its pipeline and you get people reappointed to the board, because it is an independent statutory authority, or you accept that if you are going to wrench this money out of it and let it lapse with no board, then effectively you are killing ARENA through the back door. That is what is going on here.</para>
<para>I urge the Senate: if you are serious about saving the Australian Renewable Energy Agency, and if you like the kinds of programs that it is supporting, then support my amendment. ARENA is supporting programs right around the country; there are fantastic projects. Out in communities people are excited by this investment in renewable energy and by the innovation and jobs that are coming with it. The point that I just make very seriously is that there is a funding schedule here to take the money out of ARENA. The Greens are standing firm saying do not take that $717 million out of it and please reappoint people to the board, as the Senate asked yesterday, so we are not left with a shell of a former organisation with the departmental secretary overseeing the projects for which the money has already been allocated and that is virtually it. So I urge the Senate: if you are serious about supporting and saving ARENA, it is not enough to leave it to three months down the track to vote against the abolition bill. The fact is that you will be voting for its abolition if you take this money out and the board is gone—it is just a shell. I really urge people to support my amendment.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:34</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CORMANN</name>
    <name.id>HDA</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Singh's comments just now, that this schedule would cripple ARENA, are really quite unbelievable, because what this schedule does is give effect to a Labor savings measure out of their last budget. That is all it does. We are giving effect to a savings measure that you put in your last budget, that you initiated, that you banked in your last budget and that you failed to legislate. Now you come in here and say that somehow we are crippling ARENA. That is just unbelievable. Of course, the government that initiated that savings measure and banked it in the last budget—the Labor government—when I last looked, was supported by the Greens political party in government.</para>
<para>The Greens were standing behind the budgets of the previous government. The Greens have said that they were part of guaranteeing supply to the previous government. They have got a member in the House of Representatives who was a part of guaranteeing supply to the previous government. The previous government delivered a budget which reprofiled $370 million in funding over the forward estimates into later years—2019-20 to 2021-22—and reduced funding for ARENA by $435 million over the forward estimates. The changes in this schedule give effect to the Labor Party's last budget. So for Senator Singh to come in here and say that we are somehow crippling ARENA by giving effect to their last budget's savings measures is really quite hypocritical, I would suggest to the Senate.</para>
<para>As Senator Milne and Senator Singh would well know, the future of ARENA, structurally, is going to be the subject of different legislation. It is not the subject of the package of bills that is in front of us here today. The government will not be supporting these amendments. We will be voting for the schedules to stand as printed and that is what we would recommend every senator to do in this Senate—in particular given the absolute mess that the budget is in after six years of Labor waste and mismanagement.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:36</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator MILNE</name>
    <name.id>ka5</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I would just like to ask the minister to inform the Senate how the government intends to respond to the motion passed yesterday to reappoint the board of ARENA.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:37</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CORMANN</name>
    <name.id>HDA</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>That is not a matter related to the bill before us. It is not a matter related to the amendment before us. It is obviously a matter for Minister Hunt. Obviously, in the ordinary course of events, Minister Hunt, on behalf of the government, will respond to the motion passed by the Senate.</para>
<para>The CHAIRMAN: The question is that schedule 5 stand as printed.</para>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The committee divided. [10:41]<br />(The Chairman—Senator Marshall)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>39</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Abetz, E</name>
                  <name>Back, CJ</name>
                  <name>Bernardi, C</name>
                  <name>Birmingham, SJ</name>
                  <name>Brandis, GH</name>
                  <name>Bushby, DC</name>
                  <name>Canavan, M.J.</name>
                  <name>Cash, MC</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                  <name>Cormann, M</name>
                  <name>Day, R.J.</name>
                  <name>Edwards, S</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, DJ</name>
                  <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                  <name>Fifield, MP</name>
                  <name>Heffernan, W</name>
                  <name>Johnston, D</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J</name>
                  <name>Lazarus, GP</name>
                  <name>Leyonhjelm, DE</name>
                  <name>Macdonald, ID</name>
                  <name>Madigan, JJ</name>
                  <name>Mason, B</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                  <name>Muir, R</name>
                  <name>Nash, F</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, B</name>
                  <name>Parry, S</name>
                  <name>Payne, MA</name>
                  <name>Reynolds, L</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A (teller)</name>
                  <name>Ryan, SM</name>
                  <name>Scullion, NG</name>
                  <name>Seselja, Z</name>
                  <name>Sinodinos, A</name>
                  <name>Smith, D</name>
                  <name>Wang, Z</name>
                  <name>Williams, JR</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>32</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Bilyk, CL (teller)</name>
                  <name>Brown, CL</name>
                  <name>Bullock, J.W.</name>
                  <name>Carr, KJ</name>
                  <name>Collins, JMA</name>
                  <name>Conroy, SM</name>
                  <name>Dastyari, S</name>
                  <name>Di Natale, R</name>
                  <name>Faulkner, J</name>
                  <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                  <name>Ketter, CR</name>
                  <name>Lines, S</name>
                  <name>Ludlam, S</name>
                  <name>Ludwig, JW</name>
                  <name>Marshall, GM</name>
                  <name>McEwen, A</name>
                  <name>McLucas, J</name>
                  <name>Milne, C</name>
                  <name>Moore, CM</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, DM</name>
                  <name>Peris, N</name>
                  <name>Polley, H</name>
                  <name>Rhiannon, L</name>
                  <name>Rice, J</name>
                  <name>Siewert, R</name>
                  <name>Singh, LM</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, AE</name>
                  <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                  <name>Wright, PL</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names></names>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:44</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The CHAIRMAN</name>
    <name.id>00AOP</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The remaining amendments are consequential on amendments that have not been passed. So I now put the question that the bills stand as printed.</para>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The committee divided. [10:46]<br />(The Chairman—Senator Marshall)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>38</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Abetz, E</name>
                  <name>Back, CJ</name>
                  <name>Bernardi, C</name>
                  <name>Birmingham, SJ</name>
                  <name>Brandis, GH</name>
                  <name>Bushby, DC</name>
                  <name>Canavan, M.J.</name>
                  <name>Cash, MC</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                  <name>Cormann, M</name>
                  <name>Day, R.J.</name>
                  <name>Edwards, S</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, DJ</name>
                  <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                  <name>Fifield, MP</name>
                  <name>Heffernan, W</name>
                  <name>Johnston, D</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J</name>
                  <name>Lazarus, GP</name>
                  <name>Leyonhjelm, DE</name>
                  <name>Macdonald, ID</name>
                  <name>Madigan, JJ</name>
                  <name>Mason, B</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                  <name>Muir, R</name>
                  <name>Nash, F</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, B</name>
                  <name>Parry, S</name>
                  <name>Payne, MA</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A (teller)</name>
                  <name>Ryan, SM</name>
                  <name>Scullion, NG</name>
                  <name>Seselja, Z</name>
                  <name>Sinodinos, A</name>
                  <name>Smith, D</name>
                  <name>Wang, Z</name>
                  <name>Williams, JR</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>32</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Bilyk, CL (teller)</name>
                  <name>Brown, CL</name>
                  <name>Bullock, J.W.</name>
                  <name>Carr, KJ</name>
                  <name>Collins, JMA</name>
                  <name>Conroy, SM</name>
                  <name>Dastyari, S</name>
                  <name>Di Natale, R</name>
                  <name>Faulkner, J</name>
                  <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                  <name>Ketter, CR</name>
                  <name>Lines, S</name>
                  <name>Ludlam, S</name>
                  <name>Ludwig, JW</name>
                  <name>Marshall, GM</name>
                  <name>McEwen, A</name>
                  <name>McLucas, J</name>
                  <name>Milne, C</name>
                  <name>Moore, CM</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, DM</name>
                  <name>Peris, N</name>
                  <name>Polley, H</name>
                  <name>Rhiannon, L</name>
                  <name>Rice, J</name>
                  <name>Siewert, R</name>
                  <name>Singh, LM</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, AE</name>
                  <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                  <name>Wright, PL</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names></names>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to.<br />Bills agreed to.<br />Bills reported without amendment or request.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division></subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Adoption of Report</title>
            <page.no>5245</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:49</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CORMANN</name>
    <name.id>HDA</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the report from the committee be adopted.</para></quote>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the report from the committee be adopted.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [10:51]<br />(The President—Senator Parry)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>38</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Abetz, E</name>
                  <name>Back, CJ</name>
                  <name>Bernardi, C</name>
                  <name>Birmingham, SJ</name>
                  <name>Brandis, GH</name>
                  <name>Bushby, DC</name>
                  <name>Canavan, M.J.</name>
                  <name>Cash, MC</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                  <name>Cormann, M</name>
                  <name>Day, R.J.</name>
                  <name>Edwards, S</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, DJ</name>
                  <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                  <name>Fifield, MP</name>
                  <name>Heffernan, W</name>
                  <name>Johnston, D</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J</name>
                  <name>Lazarus, GP</name>
                  <name>Leyonhjelm, DE</name>
                  <name>Macdonald, ID</name>
                  <name>Madigan, JJ</name>
                  <name>Mason, B</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                  <name>Muir, R</name>
                  <name>Nash, F</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, B</name>
                  <name>Payne, MA</name>
                  <name>Reynolds, L</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A (teller)</name>
                  <name>Ryan, SM</name>
                  <name>Scullion, NG</name>
                  <name>Seselja, Z</name>
                  <name>Sinodinos, A</name>
                  <name>Smith, D</name>
                  <name>Wang, Z</name>
                  <name>Williams, JR</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>34</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Bilyk, CL (teller)</name>
                  <name>Brown, CL</name>
                  <name>Bullock, J.W.</name>
                  <name>Cameron, DN</name>
                  <name>Carr, KJ</name>
                  <name>Collins, JMA</name>
                  <name>Conroy, SM</name>
                  <name>Dastyari, S</name>
                  <name>Di Natale, R</name>
                  <name>Faulkner, J</name>
                  <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                  <name>Ketter, CR</name>
                  <name>Lines, S</name>
                  <name>Ludlam, S</name>
                  <name>Ludwig, JW</name>
                  <name>Marshall, GM</name>
                  <name>McEwen, A</name>
                  <name>McLucas, J</name>
                  <name>Milne, C</name>
                  <name>Moore, CM</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, DM</name>
                  <name>Peris, N</name>
                  <name>Polley, H</name>
                  <name>Rhiannon, L</name>
                  <name>Rice, J</name>
                  <name>Siewert, R</name>
                  <name>Singh, LM</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, AE</name>
                  <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                  <name>Wong, P</name>
                  <name>Wright, PL</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names></names>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to.<br />Report adopted.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division></subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Third Reading</title>
            <page.no>5246</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:54</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CORMANN</name>
    <name.id>HDA</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That these bills be now read a third time.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:54</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator MILNE</name>
    <name.id>ka5</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise in what is a critical moment for this nation. The vote—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Ian Macdonald</name>
    <name.id>YW4</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The will of the Australian people has been endorsed.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order on my right!</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Cameron</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>It is based on lies.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order on my left!</para>
<para class="italic">Senator Ian Macdonald interjecting—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Macdonald and Senator Cameron, order! Senator Milne, you have the call.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator MILNE</name>
    <name.id>ka5</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>This is a critical moment for our nation. There are a number of new senators in this chamber and their vote today, and the vote of every person in this Senate, will be the legacy of their political career. That is because voting for—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Ian Macdonald</name>
    <name.id>YW4</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>That is what they were elected to do.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Macdonald! Senator Milne, you have the call.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator MILNE</name>
    <name.id>ka5</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>A vote for the abolition of the clean energy package is a vote for failure. It is a vote to fail—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Wong</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr President, I rise on a point of order. I appreciate those on the other side may not agree with the contribution, but Senator Macdonald could at least desist from interjecting for perhaps 10 or 15 seconds while another senator is making a contribution on the third reading.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator Wong. I remind all senators in the chamber that interjections are disorderly and Senator Milne has the right to be heard on this third reading debate.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator MILNE</name>
    <name.id>ka5</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>A vote for the abolition of the clean energy package is a vote for failure because it is a recognition that this parliament does not want to face up to the four to six degrees of warming, which is the trajectory we are on as a planet. They do not want to face up to what is intergenerational theft, because a planet facing the warming that we are now being subjected to, and will be subjected to, is a planet experiencing the sixth extinction crisis. It will be a planet suffering rising sea levels. It will be a planet suffering food security crises and it will be a nation, Australia, failing to play our role in global negotiations. We will be a global pariah as the rest of the world moves to try to secure a treaty in 2015 to give people on this planet a chance of survival in the face of a climate emergency. Australia will be relegated to a pariah and a backwater. But it is also a failure to understand that the future is going to be powered by renewable energy, by innovation, by excitement and by new manufacturing.</para>
<para>If this parliament votes to abandon the clean energy package, you are voting against the best interests of the nation. It is a huge opportunity cost to Australia. We will be sidelined in global capital markets. We will be sidelined in innovation. Already GE is out today saying that the pipeline of investment in renewable energy is in jeopardy because of what Australia is doing. This is an appalling day for Australia when a government, rather than lead in the face of what the world is facing up to and rather than lead and be ahead in the race to the future, is determined to stick with the past. So the Greens say, absolutely: this will be a short-lived victory for the Abbott government and those who vote with it today, because Australia will not stand for it. People want this country to lead. People want innovation. People want the clean energy future and people will understand very quickly that the supposed benefits will not be realised. But what people will face is another summer of extreme weather events and more summers after that, as our Pacific neighbours will</para>
<para>And so, I am here to say that the Greens will join with everyone across the country in bringing back to this parliament a more rigorous framework of legislation that will get Australia onto the track we need to be on; that is a 40 to 60 percent emissions reduction target on 2000 levels by 2030 and net carbon zero by 2050. That is the kind of ambition that we will be out talking to the community about and making sure that we get back to this parliament. We will give hope to future generations. That is what we are going to do: go out and provide hope and a focus on the future while the government and those who support it today are going out to the community focussing on the past and giving people nothing but despair. The future demands people who face the challenges posed now. The Greens are up and ready for that task.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:00</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator IAN MACDONALD</name>
    <name.id>YW4</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>As one who, at the very beginning of this debate, crossed the floor against my own party, I would like to say a couple of words in the final debate on this long-running issue.</para>
<para>First of all, we have heard from the Greens political party the ultimate in hypocrisy. The Australian people, clearly, voted at the last election on what everyone knew was a referendum on the carbon tax, to get rid of the carbon tax. I want to congratulate those political parties who went to the election promising the repeal of the carbon tax and who have actually voted on the basis upon which they were elected. I mention the Democratic Labour Party, Senator Xenophon, the Palmer United Party, the Liberal Democrat Party and the Family First Party, all of whom made it quite clear when they went to election, like the coalition, that if Australians voted for us we would get rid the carbon tax. It is the ultimate in hypocrisy for the Greens political party then to say that they know better than the Australian public, that they know better than our fellow Australians voting at an election. It is typical that the Greens think that they know better than everyone.</para>
<para>Opposition senators interjecting—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order on my left.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator IAN MACDONALD</name>
    <name.id>YW4</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Let them go, Mr President, I enjoy it! They will not understand the will of the Australian people and yet they claim to be part of a democracy. Can I conclude on a matter that I mentioned in my very first speech in this place. If there is a problem with global warming—notwithstanding that in Brisbane on Saturday morning we had the coldest day in 113 years, but I leave that behind. I have always indicated that I have an open mind on this. But what I do say is that Australia emits less than 1.4 per cent of global emissions. Without serious work by the United States, China, Russia and the European Union, a five per cent reduction in Australia will make not one iota of difference to all of the things which the leader of the Australian Greens political party would have us believe will occur as a consequence of today's vote. I congratulate the Australian public for their decision, and I congratulate all the parliamentarians who have followed the dictates of the Australian public in having this bill passed today.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:04</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SINGH</name>
    <name.id>M0R</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>This is a fundamental moment in Australia's history. We are about to devastate the future of this country. We are about to take this country backwards in droves through the mindless ideological bent of the coalition. Australia today will be a laughing stock to the rest of the world. We are sending this country backwards—and all for what? For playing politics: playing politics with Australia's future, playing politics with our environment and playing politics with our children. It is an outrageous moment in Australia's history when the coalition are sending this nation backwards. We know that there are so many of them who do not believe the science. Senator Macdonald's contribution just now makes it clear—the hypocrisy—that in fact he does not have an open mind. He has never had an open mind on this issue. Labor stands by the science. We stand by the economists who have made it very clear that an emissions trading scheme is the way forward for this country—as so many other countries are moving towards, or have already moved towards, including some of our most hugest trading partners—China, the US—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Bernardi</name>
    <name.id>G0D</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Most hugest?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Ian Macdonald</name>
    <name.id>YW4</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Most hugest?</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SINGH</name>
    <name.id>M0R</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>our largest trading partners, China and the US. This is a moment in Australia's history, a fundamental moment when this country is going backwards. Labor will not stand with the government on this. Labor stand with the scientists, and we stand with the economists. Labor is voting for the environment. We are voting for the future, the future of our children. And that is why Labor will not support these bills.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the Clean Energy Legislation (Carbon Tax Repeal) Bill 2014 and seven related bills be now read a third time.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [11:10]<br />(The President—Senator Parry)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>39</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Abetz, E</name>
                  <name>Back, CJ</name>
                  <name>Bernardi, C</name>
                  <name>Birmingham, SJ</name>
                  <name>Brandis, GH</name>
                  <name>Bushby, DC (teller)</name>
                  <name>Canavan, M.J.</name>
                  <name>Cash, MC</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                  <name>Cormann, M</name>
                  <name>Day, R.J.</name>
                  <name>Edwards, S</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, DJ</name>
                  <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                  <name>Fifield, MP</name>
                  <name>Heffernan, W</name>
                  <name>Johnston, D</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J</name>
                  <name>Lazarus, GP</name>
                  <name>Leyonhjelm, DE</name>
                  <name>Macdonald, ID</name>
                  <name>Madigan, JJ</name>
                  <name>Mason, B</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                  <name>Muir, R</name>
                  <name>Nash, F</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, B</name>
                  <name>Parry, S</name>
                  <name>Payne, MA</name>
                  <name>Reynolds, L</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A</name>
                  <name>Ryan, SM</name>
                  <name>Scullion, NG</name>
                  <name>Seselja, Z</name>
                  <name>Sinodinos, A</name>
                  <name>Smith, D</name>
                  <name>Wang, Z</name>
                  <name>Williams, JR</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>33</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Bilyk, CL (teller)</name>
                  <name>Bullock, J.W.</name>
                  <name>Cameron, DN</name>
                  <name>Carr, KJ</name>
                  <name>Collins, JMA</name>
                  <name>Conroy, SM</name>
                  <name>Dastyari, S</name>
                  <name>Di Natale, R</name>
                  <name>Faulkner, J</name>
                  <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                  <name>Ketter, CR</name>
                  <name>Lines, S</name>
                  <name>Ludlam, S</name>
                  <name>Ludwig, JW</name>
                  <name>Marshall, GM</name>
                  <name>McEwen, A</name>
                  <name>McLucas, J</name>
                  <name>Milne, C</name>
                  <name>Moore, CM</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, DM</name>
                  <name>Peris, N</name>
                  <name>Polley, H</name>
                  <name>Rhiannon, L</name>
                  <name>Rice, J</name>
                  <name>Siewert, R</name>
                  <name>Singh, LM</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, AE</name>
                  <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                  <name>Wong, P</name>
                  <name>Wright, PL</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names></names>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to.<br />Bills read a third time.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division></subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Asset Recycling Fund Bill 2014, Asset Recycling Fund (Consequential Amendments) Bill 2014</title>
          <page.no>5250</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" style="" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" background="">
            <p>
              <a type="Bill" href="r5255">
                <p style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;" class="HPS-SubDebate">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Asset Recycling Fund Bill 2014</span>
                </p>
              </a>
            </p>
            <a type="Bill" href="r5256">
              <p style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;" class="HPS-SubDebate">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Asset Recycling Fund (Consequential Amendments) Bill 2014</span>
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        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>5250</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:14</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CONROY</name>
    <name.id>3L6</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The reason Labor is seeking to amend the Asset Recycling Fund Bill 2014 and related bill is that we believe that infrastructure should be built where it will create jobs and growth, not rolled out for short-term political gain. Our amendments will improve the operations of this bill and make it more transparent for taxpayers and industry. Unlike the government, Labor cares about the types of asset sales that will be eligible for a Commonwealth-funded incentive.</para>
<para>We will ensure that funds set aside for education and research infrastructure remain dedicated to that productivity-enhancing endeavour, with proper governance retained. We will make sure that the rules that apply to the Building Australia Fund—a fund to be emptied into this new Asset Recycling Fund—will continue to apply. This is in line with and continues what we did when we were in government. The Labor government established a transparent process to ensure that scarce government money was spent on the most productive investments to create the biggest benefit to the national economy. Our focus was on what was in the best long-term interest of the nation, not what was in our own short-term political interest. It is essential that government investment in infrastructure goes into the most productive infrastructure possible.</para>
<para>Labor will move two groups of amendments to this bill. The first will maintain the $3.5 billion in the Education Investment Fund and those funds dedicated to the purposes of that fund. The second will require that asset sales transactions are approved by the parliament and that a proper analysis is undertaken when decisions are made on productivity-enhancing infrastructure. Part of this amendment will ensure that funded projects have published analyses of project benefits.</para>
<para>I can understand why the Nationals may not be too keen on amendments like this, as all of us are well aware of the National Party's record with regard to the 'regional rorts' program under the Howard government. Who can forget the Auditor-General's report into this program, which found that 43 projects were signed off without departmental approval between 2003 and 2006. And 38 of those 43 projects were in coalition seats. The Auditor-General also found that, in some instances, ministers approved money for projects without even receiving a funding application. If that does not smell like a pork-barrel, a rort, then nothing does. They actually approved funding without receiving an application from the people who they were funding. What was the coalition's response while in government to this damning report by the Auditor-General? Did they think that the independent Auditor-General's recommendation ought be adopted?</para>
<para class="italic">Senator O'Sullivan interjecting—</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CONROY</name>
    <name.id>3L6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I know the good Queensland senator over there thinks an amendment like this is like a wooden stake to a vampire. It attempts to put to an end the raison d'etre for the Liberal National Party in Queensland: pork-barrelling. So I can understand why I am getting interjections from the other side. But what did they say about this report?</para>
<para>When criticised, the coalition government so often played the man. The Nationals may remain keenly attached to this particularly rancid form of pork-barrelling, with unproductive projects. The Liberals, usually, are just happy throwing a few dollars to their coalition lapdogs so that they can continue to count on their support—just toss them a few pork-barrels and that will keep those nuff-nuffs in the National Party in Queensland happy. That is the way the Liberal Party operates. It has worked for 50 years and they want to keep doing it in this particular bill.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'Sullivan</name>
    <name.id>247871</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>We're grateful.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CONROY</name>
    <name.id>3L6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>You are grateful. We appreciate that you show your gratitude to them. But the Labor opposition want to ensure that this does not become a marginal seat pork-barrel operation for a mates-based approach to government spending. The focus should always be on productivity and jobs.</para>
<para>Labor sees the value in working with the private sector to develop nationally significant infrastructure. People watching and listening to this debate should not fall into the trap of thinking that Labor is anti privatisation. Labor's view is that decisions about assets that are earmarked for privatisation need to stand on their own merits. The question that needs to be asked is: is the privatisation of this infrastructure asset the right approach that will benefit taxpayers and the long-term interests of our country? This should not be done simply to support an ideological fanaticism to privatise assets in the mode of those flat-earth, economic puritans on the other side. Nor should it be the basis for the Commonwealth's commitment to cut funding for nation-building infrastructure. The Commonwealth currently provides grants of up to 80 per cent for infrastructure. Will the states be left to do the heavy lifting on infrastructure, as the Commonwealth steps back and offers only 15 per cent for privatising? Thanks to Labor, current legislation already seeks to encourage private sector investment through a range of measures that were established after extensive consultation with industry. The government just does not seem to be aware of this.</para>
<para>So let me explain it to those opposite. In the 2013 budget, Labor created incentives through uplifting the value of carry-forward losses to bring them in line with the 10-year bond rate for eligible projects up to a value of $25 billion in total. Labor also exempted the carry-forward losses and bad debt reductions from continuity of ownership and the same business tests for eligible projects. These changes encouraged private sector ownership of brownfield infrastructure projects, where expenses are heavily front ended. They came about thanks to an exhaustive consultation process with the sector. They encouraged private investment in nationally important infrastructure. Yet here we are, and the coalition does not even seem to be aware of what legislation is already in place.</para>
<para>On our changes to carry-forward losses, we built this into the Infrastructure Australia process. In order to receive the tax-loss incentive, the independent expert Infrastructure Australia was involved. We specifically put an independent group of experts into the process to ensure it remained fair and proper. The infrastructure being built had to be nation-building infrastructure to access this support. That is the rationale for the amendments we are putting forward to this bill. There needs to be transparency and the government's infrastructure expert needs to be involved so that any privatisation of assets is productivity enhancing.</para>
<para>Labor welcomes the decision the government made a fortnight ago to accept all of the Senate amendments—mainly from the opposition—to the Infrastructure Australia bill. These amendments retain Infrastructure Australia as an independent adviser to government. The challenge now is for the government to accept IA's advice; having talked the talk, it now needs to walk the walk. The advice IA provided on East West stage 2 was that it is not ready to proceed. There is a pretty good reason for that. As someone who lives in Melbourne, I know that the inept, incompetent Napthine government has not actually submitted any significant details—basically, a letter of request. There is a reason why it has not submitted any significant details. You see, when you build a tunnel you normally need two things: you need to know where you are going to start and you need to know where you are going to finish. This proposal is so half baked—no, that is being unkind to half-baked proposals! This proposal is so weak they have decided they know where they are going to start digging a billion-dollar tunnel but they have not actually decided where it is going to come up. That is true. You are trying to hide your laughing! They actually got funding for a tunnel on the basis that they know where they are starting but they do not know where it is going to come up! There is no plan. They have not even got as far as working out where the tunnel will come up in Melbourne. I know, because I live on the western side of Melbourne, that it is somewhere in the west of Melbourne that they are going to bring the tunnel up. But that's all right, let's give them a billion dollars in advance! They have actually given them a billion dollars, two years in advance, before they even know where the tunnel is going to come up. That is what we call pork-barrelling to help out a desperate state Liberal government that is facing oblivion at the polls. So they have thrown a billion dollars at this project to try and make the Napthine government look good before an election. Who would fund one end of a tunnel? Seriously, Mr Acting Deputy President, would you fund one end of a tunnel? It is tragic, but it is all true.</para>
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<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>HZE</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>It wouldn't be appropriate for me to comment, Senator Conroy.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Scullion</name>
    <name.id>00AOM</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>You've got to start somewhere!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CONROY</name>
    <name.id>3L6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>That's right, you've got to start somewhere! We will just build half a tunnel and work out later where it is going to come up! It had better not come up anywhere near my place! This is a project that Infrastructure Australia has advised is not ready to proceed—and here he is, the fiscal messiah, giving a billion dollars to the tunnel when they have not even worked out where it is going to come up. They are not going to start building it for two years but you have given them a billion dollars before they even know where it is going to come up.</para>
<para>I think it is also worth reflecting on the government's Orwellian terminology of 'asset recycling'. Let us call this bill what it is—'encouraging privatisation'. That is what this bill is doing and that is what it should be called. As I said, Labor is not against privatisation. We support it when it results in an addition to productive nation-building infrastructure. We support it when regulation and competition can ensure benefits for consumers with a good return to government. On that, we note the recent comments from the ACCC chair about the risk of inadequate regulatory protections for the sale of monopoly assets in order to access the 15 per cent Commonwealth incentive before July 2016—and well should we note these comments. But, as is typical of this government, they want to hide what they are doing with spin and word-games. They should just own up to what they want out of this legislation and call it the 'Encouraging Privatisation Bill'.</para>
<para>Before I conclude, I want to say a few words about the coalition's short-sighted decision to abolish the $3.5 billion Education Investment Fund. This cut to the education fund comes on top of the government's $5.8 billion cuts to higher education and student support. It is a far cry from their pre-election promises of 'no changes to education'. We all remember the then Leader of the Opposition, Mr Tony Abbott, looking the television camera in the eye and saying, 'No cuts to education.' But the EIF provides funding for projects that create or develop significant infrastructure in higher education—research and vocational education and training institutions. Its abolition raises serious questions about this government's commitment to long-term sustainable infrastructure for teaching and research at Australia's public universities.</para>
<para>Mr Abbott looked the television camera in the eye and said, 'No cuts in education'—just another lie. This is not the government the people of Australia voted for. Mr Abbott made a great play over the last three years about trust—'Take me at my word' and 'I mean what I say'—and he lied his way through the election campaign. This is just another demonstration of the extent of the lies that Mr Abbott told to the Australian people to gain their trust and support going into that last election. That is why one of Labor's amendments to this legislation is to reinstate this fund. According to the Australian Technology Network of Universities:</para>
<quote><para class="block">EIF funding has been used to develop new research and education infrastructure across universities, VET institutions, research centres and institutes and the CSIRO.</para></quote>
<para>That is what this fund is being used for. They go on to say:</para>
<quote><para class="block">To date 71 infrastructure projects have been funded by EIF to the sum of $2.4 billion.</para></quote>
<para>They also say:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Without systematic and sustainable funding for research infrastructure, Australia will not be able to attract the best and brightest researchers in the world, nor commit to significant long term research and commercialisation projects as is done in our competitor economies.</para></quote>
<para>This is another act from a government that does not understand or care about science and research.</para>
<para>Our amendments are important amendments that improve the operations of this bill and they make it more transparent for taxpayers. It will never be a perfect block to those pork-barrellers from the Queensland Liberal and National parties—nothing will ever stop them; they will find a way to get their snout in any trough—but this is as good as is possible to do in this chamber today. Our amendments will ensure that a vital fund is retained so that it can continue to support education infrastructure. These amendments continue the focus that Labor had when in government: that infrastructure decisions need to be based on what is best for Australia in the long run—for our national interests, not the National or Liberal party interest in pork-barrelling in marginal seats in Queensland and other states.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:33</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LUDLAM</name>
    <name.id>I07</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to make some comments on behalf of the Australian Greens on the Asset Recycling Fund Bill 2014 and related bill. I agreed with much of what Senator Conroy said. In fact, when we come to the committee stage, the Australian Greens will be moving an amendment. We think the bill is not particularly accurately named and we will be moving to change the name of the bill to the 'Encouraging Privatisation Bill'—which it quite clearly is.</para>
<para>The only significant difference that I have with Senator Conroy is where he points out that this was the best that could be done by the Senate today—and I strongly disagree. The best that could be done by the Senate today would be to block this bill and send it back to the drafters in the Prime Minister's office or from whence it came to have a good hard think about exactly what it is that they are proposing to do. This bill should not proceed, for reasons that are so self-evident as to be barely worth documenting.</para>
<para>The myth of the pre-eminence of private sector efficiency for running essential services—and, in particular, for running natural monopoly infrastructure—should be set aside today, before this bill is committed to the vote, for the shallow and self-serving ideological dead-end that it is. Bribing financially stretched state governments to sell assets in return for funding catastrophically expensive urban freeways and tunnels graphically illustrates the coalition's poverty of vision when it comes to infrastructure funding.</para>
<para>The Australian Greens strongly oppose this measure. We will continue to promote deliberative planning processes to establish infrastructure plans that actually serve communities rather than divide them. This bill—to put it as plainly as I can—is about bribing state and territory governments to sell off public assets in order to obtain Commonwealth funding. We will be urging Labor to join with the Greens and vote down this bill which would, among other things, create a slush fund for toll roads at the expense of investment in public transport.</para>
<para>I think I understand why Prime Minister Tony Abbott is such a hardliner on climate change. I think part of it is ideological and I think part of it is that he is generally too terrified to acknowledge what is happening to the global climate and part of it is that the Liberal and National parties are bought and paid for by the coal, oil and gas industries. That is reasonably easy to understand. But I find it harder to understand why the Prime Minister has such a hatred of public transport. Is it just that he does not ever use it himself? Is it that basic, or is there more at play? Why would you come into power and crash public transport projects that had already been funded and that were already in the advanced design stage? I am speaking of course of the Perth light rail project.</para>
<para>That was a proposition put forward initially by the Greens. I acknowledge the work of the state Labor government—the Gallop and later Carpenter governments—and particularly former WA minister Alannah MacTiernan in doing early study work on light rail for Perth. It is never the coalition, either at a state or federal level, that brings these projects forward. The Greens launched the proposal at the 2007 federal election. After a couple of years of campaigning and hard work, the Barnett government—deeply unpopular, traumatised, moribund and in a bit of a mess—took up the idea, proposed it and committed a little more than $4 million to design and pre-feasibility work.</para>
<para>So that was a Green initiated project, designed by Liberal and National parties in Perth and Western Australia—and we got $500 million from a federal Labor minister in the Commonwealth budget for implementation and development. So it was very much a cross-party initiative. At about this time last year we were thinking that we had actually managed to pull politics out of the proposal and that the Liberals, Nationals, Greens and Labor were going to be able to get a light rail network built in Western Australia—for the first time since 1958.</para>
<para>What happened? Prime Minister Tony Abbott comes to office and says, 'There will be no public transport under a government I lead,' pulls $5 million off the table and instead we get this obscene $925 million contribution—which effectively gets the project over the line and makes it bankable—for a private freight highway through a wetland. That is one of the reasons why we are opposing a bill such as this. The federal government have effectively put on the table $9½ billion worth of funding around the country for projects that have effectively circumvented Infrastructure Australia's arms-length assessment procedure, and now they are just dropping freeways on people's heads. It is a little similar to the east-west tunnel catastrophe that Senator Conroy was outlining, although I understand that the Labor Party has a rather morally ambiguous position towards whether that gets built or not.</para>
<para>In Western Australia, the situation is much clearer. The state and federal Labor Party oppose this freeway. The state and federal Australian Greens oppose this freeway. The community oppose the freeway. Most of the local government authorities in the area oppose the freeway. People who care about urban bushland oppose it. The local Aboriginal mob oppose four lanes of tarmac smashing through sacred sites on the shores of Bibra Lake, or Walliabup. So it is fairly easy to see that this project should never have seen the light of day. But there was $920 million committed to it before you had even seen the design. The Commonwealth bureaucrats who are writing the cheques out did not even know whether it would be an elevated freeway or not. Nobody knows what is going to happen to all the traffic—the masses of container traffic that you are going to be dumping onto Tydeman Road through four sets of traffic lights. Nobody knows. The thing has not been designed. Nobody has released the cost-benefit analysis—based, undoubtedly, on hallucinations of time savings that amount to $4 billion or $5 billion, just imaginary numbers.</para>
<para>The government believe that anything that is not nailed down should be privatised. They never saw an urban freeway that they did not like, and they have this strange loathing of public transport. Maybe you spend your entire time being carted around in Comcars and chauffeur driven limousines and do not feel the need for public transport. It should be user-pays, shouldn't it? That loathing for public transport such that you would abolish projects already afoot is stranger to me than understanding how the coal industry could have just bought and written your climate policy for you. It is simpler to join those particular dots. So I hope that Labor will rethink their support for this bill.</para>
<para>We will go into this in detail in committee, but I foreshadow that we will be supporting most of the amendments that the Labor Party are putting forward around cost-benefit analysis. They are entirely consistent with amendments that we passed a fortnight ago when we were debating the Infrastructure Australia Amendment Bill. They are sensible. If this thing is going to be passed back to the House of Representatives, it does make sense to ensure that those checks and balances are in there. But I do find it strange to see the Australian Labor Party aiding and abetting Prime Minister Tony Abbott's privatised urban freeways agenda. It is strange, particularly when you have been so strong at home in the instance of the Roe Highway. I find that a bit peculiar.</para>
<para>We believe that public assets should remain in public hands unless there is a very compelling case for them to be sold off. A couple of weeks ago, at the ACOSS national conference in Brisbane, I caught up with Professor Charles Sampford. He has very interesting views on these things. He has spent many years studying what actually happens in the process of state asset sales. Professor Sampford is Foundation Dean, Professor of Law and Research Professor in Ethics at Griffith University. He is not a hardline pro- or anti-privatisation person per se. In fact he has got some quite strong comments for anybody residing at the opposite poles of the debate, telling them to take a look at what the actual costs are and arguments that can be made for where the state should not own a particular thing. I will give one example that is close to my heart. With the National Broadband Network, we supported the wholesale arm of that company being brought back into public hands from Telstra. But, at the retail level, there is no sense having a state owned retailer necessarily. It makes entirely good sense for the private sector to be competing to provide a decent service to people. But, for heaven's sake, you do not privatise the wholesale essential service end of the network, which is a natural monopoly. So there is a spectrum of views.</para>
<para>Professor Sampford's take on it is very interesting, because he looks into what happens during the process of state asset sales and looks at all the hidden costs that exist, which I mention for the benefit of the boosters, those right up the far end of the pro-privatisation spectrum, who just want to sell everything off because they do not really believe in the existence of democratic states, which is kind of bizarre. Here is what he says:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Transfers of ownership are not without cost. Transaction costs include the costs of legislation, legal advice, due diligence, brokerage and underwriting fees. The fees can easily reach 2-3 per cent of the value of the enterprise and are not irrelevant to the excitement privatisation generates among the legal and stockbroking industries—and the uncritical support they offer for it.</para></quote>
<para>That is kind of interesting when you see that the range of voices in the public debate demanding that things be sold off tend to come from the very same people—the hordes of parasites who swirl around try to take a cut out of these things—who are the direct financial beneficiaries of asset sales. Professor Sampford goes on:</para>
<quote><para class="block">To this must be added the tendency to underprice the asset to ensure that the privatisation is a 'success'. Politicians pushing privatisation are less concerned that the price be maximised than that the sale go through. In this they will be aided and abetted by the underwriters who want to minimise their own risk.</para></quote>
<para>So there you have it. There is a certain kind of moral hazard. The private sector see a fat asset that they can potentially strip, fire a whole heap of people, break up and do with as they wish—an asset built up over years or decades by taxpayers' money that can be sold cheaply to them to suck a profit out of. So they are all for it. Then there are the analysts, the lawyers, the underwriters, the brokers and this whole cloud of people who materialise out of the woodwork to assist the government in flogging off something that people built. They are all for it. They are busily writing op-eds in the newspapers saying that this will be a fantastic thing, and the public interest gets wiped off the table.</para>
<para>We can see, from the clauses and the way in which this bill has been presented to the parliament, that the Abbott government is right up the far end of the pro-privatisation spectrum. That is why, if the bill is to pass the Senate, the Greens will be supporting the Labor amendments around some checks and balances, and we will be introducing some amendments of our own. It is not appropriate to be bribing state governments who are starved of cash—and we know that; the Commonwealth has got most of the taxing power; it has got 75 per cent of the taxing power. The states sit upon a perilously narrow taxation base. To be telling them, 'If you want new transport infrastructure you need to sell hospitals, you need to sell ports, you need to sell what is left of your electricity grids or power stations,' as much as they remain in public hands, 'and you need to basically throw them to the whims of the market, otherwise you will not see a dollar in Commonwealth funding,' is a disgrace. I will have a great deal more to say when we come to the committee stage of the bill and start going through amendments in details, but it is the strong view of the Australian Greens that this bill not proceed past the second reading stage.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:45</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PERIS</name>
    <name.id>CDK</name.id>
    <electorate>Northern Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak on the Asset Recycling Fund Bill 2014 and cognate bill which essentially provide for the Commonwealth to provide an incentive to privatise state and territory assets and to recycle the proceeds into new infrastructure. The Commonwealth contribution is to provide state and territory governments with an additional 15 per cent for the reinvested sale proceeds to the cost of the project. Firstly, I support the position from Labor that projects funded under the scheme should be subject to the advice from Infrastructure Australia but, in particular, I support the position that a disallowable instrument should be provided for each potential sale so that the parliament can block any potential asset sale as ineligible for this scheme. This is because I have some very serious concerns about how this scheme will be applied in the Northern Territory, as do many Territorians who have contacted me with their concerns on what the Northern Territory Country Liberal government will do under the scheme.</para>
<para>Territorians do not want the scheme to be used by the CLP government to justify selling off our valuable public assets. They do not want the CLP government to sell off Power and Water, TIO and the Port of Darwin. This is why the Labor amendment supporting the disallowance instrument is so important. I will come back to the concerns that I and many other Territorians and community members have in relation to the selling off of our efforts.</para>
<para>As we all know, the Northern Territory suffers from a major infrastructure deficit. This is not a political statement; it is a fact. It is why we have a parliamentary committee looking into developing the North. We are also currently suffering from a major lack of infrastructure funding. The budget had no new infrastructure funding for the Northern Territory. All they have done is to attempt to re-announce projects from previous budgets. In fact, the Abbott budget outlined that over the next seven years the Northern Territory will get less than one per cent of the nation's infrastructure budget. You simply cannot develop the North by spending 99 per cent of the funding down south. Our lack of infrastructure funding has been met with a great deal of dismay in the Northern Territory. Even Chief Minister Adam Giles has been pushed to attack his own party for the pathetic amount of funding coming to the Northern Territory. Recently Treasurer Joe Hockey came to Darwin. He was asked by journalists at a press conference about the lack of funding. He said we should not be jealous. Can you believe that? This is exactly what he said, 'Don’t be jealous, because the rest of the country is jealous of your unemployment rate and the fact you have a very strong economy here. In other parts of the country we would need to lift the economy because ultimately it is not about getting a greater share of the pie. It is about lifting the total economy so that everyone can benefit.' Remarkably, member for Solomon Natasha Griggs supported his claims and said that the money should go down south because we did not have the workforce in the Northern Territory to carry out the work. Naturally, the Darwin media, as you can imagine, gave a lot of coverage about her outrageous, her outrageous remarkable claims, which no-one simply agreed with. She tried to claim that she was taken out of context so the<inline font-style="italic"> Northern Territory News</inline> printed the entire claim. They hung her out to dry with her own words. There was nothing out of context. She simply outlined that she thought infrastructure funding should not come to the Northern Territory.</para>
<para>We have also seen in the<inline font-style="italic"> Northern Territory News</inline> Joe Hockey refusing to rule out that they will not use the revenue they get from their planned fuel tax to pay for roads they have already committed to. Regardless of the views of Natasha Griggs and Joe Hockey, everyone else in the Northern Territory is concerned about the lack of funding, including Northern Territory government.</para>
<para>As I mentioned, the other major issue is the Northern Territory is under threat of privatisation. The Northern Territory government is clearly looking at selling off several of our assets. The big three currently under threat are Power and Water, Territory Insurance Office and the Port of Darwin. The Northern Territory government is clearly looking at selling these assets and I am concerned that they will use the asset recycling scheme as a justification to sell them. I am also extremely concerned that the Commonwealth would use the scheme as a gun to be held to the Northern Territory's head: 'Sell your assets or forget about infrastructure funding!' We should not have to sell our assets to get infrastructure funding. Projects should be funded based on needs not on whether you are willing to sell your assets.</para>
<para>Prior to the last election in the Northern Territory, the Country Liberal Party signed written contracts with several remote communities and regions which they have since effectively torn up. None of the infrastructure spending promise has been delivered. This is one of the main reasons three of the regional members walked out on them. For example, they promised an all-year accessible road to Wadeye. They promised this in a signed, written agreement with the community. In the tropics, such a road would cost hundreds of millions of dollars. We are coming up to nearly two years since the promise was made and two budgets have come and gone. There has been no funding or even a suggestion of funding. There has been no sign of any attempt to deliver on this promise. This was just one example that made up billions of dollars of underfunded election promises in the bush that are simply not happening. As former Chief Minister Paul Henderson, said, 'They are just spreading fairy dust in the bush.' He was right. They made underfunded promises they never intended to keep and it is coming back to bite them. As I have mentioned, they have already lost three of their own bush members.</para>
<para>I am concerned that in the CLP's desperation to pretend to be delivering on the billions of dollars they require that they would definitely sell off our assets under this scheme. I will briefly go through each of them and our concerns. Power and Water is the first one. After the CLP promised to cut the cost of power, they even ran election ads complaining about how much people dreaded their power bills. They immediately put up power bills annually by $2, 000 a household. Most people at the time were very much of the view that the CLP were fattening Power and Water up for sale. It now looks as though they were right. The Northern Territory government, without any analysis, modelling or consultation, has recently split up Power and Water into three separate entities. The only reason to do this would be to sell it, breaking it up into nice little saleable entities. In fact, the Chief Minister has already suggested that the sale of Power and Water under the asset recycling scheme will be considered. He said he had the view that the scheme is a means to get extra taxpayer value for public assets and he would not rule it out.</para>
<para>We have no gas pipe to the households in the Northern Territory and we are very reliant on Power and Water for air conditioning. We had the highest power bills in this country. We also get some pretty big storms and reliability is a big issue. Just last month we had the town of Nhulunbuy without power for 24 hours. We have seen the same in Darwin. Could you imagine if Melbourne or Sydney was without power for 24 hours—and this happens regularly in Darwin?</para>
<para>People in the Northern Territory know that selling Power and Water would guarantee two things: higher prices and longer, more frequent blackouts. I am therefore very concerned that Power and Water will be sold off under the scheme that this bill creates. I am also very concerned that the people of the Northern Territory will get no say.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>00AOP</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The time for this debate has now expired.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>NOTICES</title>
        <page.no>5259</page.no>
        <type>NOTICES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Presentation</title>
          <page.no>5259</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>5260</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Selection of Bills Committee</title>
          <page.no>5260</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Report</title>
            <page.no>5260</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:53</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BUSHBY</name>
    <name.id>HLL</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I present the ninth report of 2014 for the Selection of Bills Committee. I seek leave to have the report incorporated in <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline>.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">The report read as follows—</inline></para>
<quote><para class="block">SELECTION OF BILLS COMMITTEE</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">REPORT NO. 9 of 2014</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">1. The committee met in private session on Wednesday, 16 July 2014 at 7.25 pm.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">2. The committee resolved to recommend:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">That—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) contingent upon its introduction in the House of Representatives, the <inline font-style="italic">provisions</inline> of the Crimes Legislation Amendment (Psychoactive Substances and Other Measures) Bill 2014 be <inline font-style="italic">referred immediately</inline> to the Legal and Constitutional Affairs Legislation Committee for inquiry and report by 2 September 2014 (see appendix 1 for a statement of reasons for referral).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">3. The committee resolved to recommend—That the following bills <inline font-style="italic">not</inline> be referred to committees:</para></quote>
<list>Clean Energy Legislation (Carbon Tax Repeal) Bill 2014</list>
<quote><para class="block">True-up Shortfall Levy (General) (Carbon Tax Repeal) Bill 2014</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">True-up Shortfall Levy (Excise) (Carbon Tax Repeal) Bill 2014</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Customs Tariff Amendment (Carbon Tax Repeal) Bill 2014</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Excise Tariff Amendment (Carbon Tax Repeal) Bill 2014</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Ozone Protection and Synthetic Greenhouse Gas (Import Levy) Amendment (Carbon Tax Repeal) Bill 2014</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Ozone Protection and Synthetic Greenhouse Gas (Manufacture Levy) Amendment (Carbon Tax Repeal) Bill 2014</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Ozone Protection and Synthetic Greenhouse Gas (Import Levy) (Transitional Provisions) Bill 2014</para></quote>
<list>Labor 2013-14 Budget Savings (Measures No. 1) Bill 2014.</list>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">The committee recommends accordingly.</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">4. The committee considered the following bill but was unable to reach agreement:</para></quote>
<list>National Security Legislation Amendment Bill (No. 1) 2014.</list>
<quote><para class="block">5. The committee deferred consideration of the following bills to its next meeting:</para></quote>
<list>Australian Sports Anti-Doping Authority Amendment Bill 2014</list>
<list>Competition and Consumer Amendment (Industry Code Penalties) Bill 2014</list>
<list>Customs Amendment Bill 2014</list>
<list>Guardian for Unaccompanied Children Bill 2014</list>
<list>International Tax Agreements Amendment Bill 2014</list>
<list>Marine Safety (Domestic Commercial Vessel) National Law Amendment Bill 2014</list>
<list>Military Rehabilitation and Compensation Amendment Bill 2014</list>
<list>Motor Vehicle Standards (Cheaper Transport) Bill 2014</list>
<list>Save Our Sharks Bill 2014</list>
<list>Social Services and Other Legislation Amendment (Student Measures) Bill 2014</list>
<list>Tax and Superannuation Laws Amendment (2014 Measures No. 4) Bill 2014.</list>
<quote><para class="block">(David Bushby)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Chair</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">17 July 2014</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">APPENDIX 1</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">SELECTION OF BILLS COMMITTEE</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Proposal to refer a bill to a committee:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Name of bill:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Crimes Legislation Amendment (Psychoactive Substances and Other Measures) Bill 2014</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Reasons for referral/principal issues for consideration:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Concerns about unintended consequences and to look at alternative models.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Possible submissions or evidence from:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Key stakeholders in drug and alcohol sector.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Committee to which bill is to be referred:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Legal and Constitutional Affairs Legislation Committee</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Possible hearing date(s):</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Late August / September</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Possible reporting date:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">September/October 2014</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(signed)</para></quote>
<para>Senator Siewert</para>
<quote><para class="block">Whip/Selection of Bills Committee Member</para></quote>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BUSHBY</name>
    <name.id>HLL</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the report be adopted.</para></quote>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:53</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LUDLAM</name>
    <name.id>I07</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That at the end of the motion, add, "and, in respect of the National Security Legislation Amendment Bill (No. 1) 2014, the bill be referred immediately to the Legal and Constitutional Affairs Legislation Committee for inquiry and report by 8 November 2014".</para></quote>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>00AOP</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the amendment be agreed to.</para>
<para>Question negatived.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:54</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LUDLAM</name>
    <name.id>I07</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a short statement. I understand it will be possible to debate this motion. I want to put very clearly on the record why I am proposing an amendment, as it is a rather unusual thing to do to a Selection of Bills report.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LUDLAM</name>
    <name.id>I07</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank the chamber. It is unusual for a senator to come forward and bring a disagreement to the chamber with a Selection of Bills Committee report.</para>
<para>Senator Brandis has brought forward a bill, the annual expansion of ASIO's powers—sometimes it is more than annual but I think it has been about a year since we were last here—and effectively cherry picking a set of recommendations from a Parliamentary Joint Committee on Intelligence and Security report from last year.</para>
<para>Without any disrespect at all to the PJCIS, I think it is utterly inappropriate to take a batch of recommendations that came from that joint committee, embed them into a bill and then send that bill back to the same committee that proposed the measures for review. What do we think they might say? Do we think they might give it impartial scrutiny and critique, call witnesses and go through it carefully; or will they say, 'This looks very familiar to what we said should happen 12 months ago'? It is entirely inappropriate that the committee that proposed the measures should now be the one to scrutinise them.</para>
<para>I hope that I will have Labor and crossbench support to allow the Senate to do its job. We have Senate standing committees to assess and analyse bills, to take evidence for, against, neutral, and to improve bills like this, particularly a bill as sensitive as this one. The proposal to expand ASIO's sweeping powers is so controversial—and I don't quite understand where the Labor Party's heads are at, because we hear different things from different spokespeople—but, the very least that should happen is that the Senate should be permitted to do its job, and that is why I have brought this motion forward.</para>
<para>In order not to take up too much of the chamber's time, I will also foreshadow a motion that I am bringing forward before too much longer to require the National Security Legislation Monitor to also investigate these bills. The reason for that is very simple: the parliamentary joint committee that provided this report last year that Senator Brandis is now cherry picking from said—and this is a recommendation that Senator Brandis will have signed off on and that the Labor Party will have signed off on; there are no crossbench voices any more than that committee because those positions were wiped out after the election. Presumably, the government doesn't care to hear from independent voices, but Senator Brandis signed off and the Labor Party shadow Attorney-General signed off on a recommendation that said that the National Security Legislation Monitor and the Inspector-general of Intelligence and Security—two small but very important offices, in fact, who hold, on one hand, the policy recommendations and the operational recommendations of our covert and clandestine intelligence gathering and police agencies—should be required to review the bills.</para>
<para>So the first thing that happened in response to that recommendation was that Senator Brandis proposed as a part of red tape removal that the National Security Legislation Monitor be abolished. So way to go with the transparency. I understand he may have changed his mind, although I would appreciate confirmation that that is the case.</para>
<para>I will shortly be moving a motion that ensures that the legislation monitor provides a report and that the IGIS provides a report. The only thing that distinguishes Australia from a police state is this so-called red tape: accountability and offices like the IGIS and analysts like the National Security Legislation Monitor. That is the thin line that stands between us and unregulated secret police and surveillance powers, and that is not overdoing it.</para>
<para>In Australia we have royal commissions into police corruption every couple of years around the states and territories. These are people—they are not immune to the pressures of the offices. They do dangerous and demanding work. They are not immune to corruption, and I don't think any of us should be surprised that a secret police or a secret intelligence-gathering agency should come to the parliament every few months asking for more intelligence-gathering powers. We should not write them a blank cheque. At the very least, I implore you, colleagues, to let the Senate do its job.</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>00AOP</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The amendment that Senator Ludlam was speaking about has already been dealt with. The question is that the report be adopted.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BUSINESS</title>
        <page.no>5263</page.no>
        <type>BUSINESS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Leave of Absence</title>
          <page.no>5263</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:59</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BUSHBY</name>
    <name.id>HLL</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That leave of absence be granted to Senator Ronaldson from 14 to 18 July 2014, on account of ministerial business.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:00</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McEWEN</name>
    <name.id>e5e</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That leave of absence be granted to Senator Xenophon for today, for personal reasons.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>NOTICES</title>
        <page.no>5263</page.no>
        <type>NOTICES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Postponement</title>
          <page.no>5263</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>5263</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Privileges Committee</title>
          <page.no>5263</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Reference</title>
            <page.no>5263</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:01</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McEWEN</name>
    <name.id>e5e</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>At the request of Senator Heffernan and Senator Sterle, I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) That the following matter be referred to the Committee of Privileges for inquiry and report:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In the context of an inquiry by the Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport References Committee into aviation accident investigations and Budget estimates hearings of the Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport Legislation Committee in May 2013:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) whether disciplinary action was taken against either a witness before the committee or a person providing information to the committee; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) if so, whether any contempt was committed in respect of those matters.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) That, for the purpose of providing further information to the Committee of Privileges, the Standing Committees on Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport have access to the records of the committee in the previous Parliament.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Community Affairs References Committee</title>
          <page.no>5264</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Reference</title>
            <page.no>5264</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:01</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SIEWERT</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the following matter be referred to the Community Affairs References Committee for inquiry and report by the second sitting week in February 2015:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Out of home care, including;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) drivers of the increase in the number of children placed in out of home care, types of care that are increasing and demographics of the children in care,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) the outcomes for children in out of home care (including kinship care, foster care and residential care) versus staying in the home;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) current models for out of home care, including kinship care, foster care and residential care;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(d) current cost of Australia's approach to care and protection;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(e) consistency of approach to out of home care around Australia;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(f) what are the supports available for relative/kinship care, foster care and residential care;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(g) best practice in out of home care in Australia and internationally;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(h) consultation with individuals, families and communities affected by removal of children from the home;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) extent of children in out of home care remaining connected to their family of origin; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(j) best practice solutions for supporting children in vulnerable family situations including early intervention.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>MOTIONS</title>
        <page.no>5264</page.no>
        <type>MOTIONS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>National Water Commission</title>
          <page.no>5264</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:02</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RHIANNON</name>
    <name.id>CPR</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I, and also on behalf of Senator Xenophon, move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) notes:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) water is one of our most important resources and is critical to Australia's economic growth,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) the National Water Commission (the Commission) plays a crucial role in monitoring, auditing and assessing water policy,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(iii) the independence of the Commission is vital to its effectiveness, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(iv) the 2011 Council of Australian Governments review of the Commission stated that it should continue 'for the lifetime of the NWI' and 'without sunset provision until the NWI is substantially replaced'; and</para></quote>
<para>(b) calls on the Government to reverse its position on the closure of the Commission.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>00AOP</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that general business notice of motion No. 354 be agreed to.</para>
<para> </para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
          <division.header>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [12:07]<br />(The Deputy President—Senator Marshall)</p>
            </body>
          </division.header>
          <division.data>
            <ayes>
              <num.votes>32</num.votes>
              <title>AYES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Bilyk, CL</name>
                <name>Brown, CL</name>
                <name>Bullock, J.W.</name>
                <name>Cameron, DN</name>
                <name>Collins, JMA</name>
                <name>Conroy, SM</name>
                <name>Dastyari, S</name>
                <name>Di Natale, R</name>
                <name>Faulkner, J</name>
                <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                <name>Ketter, CR</name>
                <name>Lines, S</name>
                <name>Ludlam, S</name>
                <name>Ludwig, JW</name>
                <name>Lundy, KA</name>
                <name>Madigan, JJ</name>
                <name>McEwen, A (teller)</name>
                <name>McLucas, J</name>
                <name>Milne, C</name>
                <name>Moore, CM</name>
                <name>Muir, R</name>
                <name>O'Neill, DM</name>
                <name>Peris, N</name>
                <name>Rhiannon, L</name>
                <name>Rice, J</name>
                <name>Siewert, R</name>
                <name>Singh, LM</name>
                <name>Sterle, G</name>
                <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                <name>Wright, PL</name>
              </names>
            </ayes>
            <noes>
              <num.votes>30</num.votes>
              <title>NOES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Back, CJ</name>
                <name>Birmingham, SJ</name>
                <name>Brandis, GH</name>
                <name>Bushby, DC (teller)</name>
                <name>Canavan, M.J.</name>
                <name>Cash, MC</name>
                <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                <name>Cormann, M</name>
                <name>Day, R.J.</name>
                <name>Edwards, S</name>
                <name>Fawcett, DJ</name>
                <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                <name>Fifield, MP</name>
                <name>Heffernan, W</name>
                <name>Leyonhjelm, DE</name>
                <name>Macdonald, ID</name>
                <name>McGrath, J</name>
                <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                <name>Nash, F</name>
                <name>O'Sullivan, B</name>
                <name>Parry, S</name>
                <name>Payne, MA</name>
                <name>Reynolds, L</name>
                <name>Ruston, A</name>
                <name>Ryan, SM</name>
                <name>Scullion, NG</name>
                <name>Seselja, Z</name>
                <name>Sinodinos, A</name>
                <name>Smith, D</name>
                <name>Williams, JR</name>
              </names>
            </noes>
            <pairs>
              <num.votes>5</num.votes>
              <title>PAIRS</title>
              <names>
                <name>Carr, KJ</name>
                <name>Abetz, E</name>
                <name>Polley, H</name>
                <name>Ronaldson, M</name>
                <name>Urquhart, AE</name>
                <name>Bernardi, C</name>
                <name>Wong, P</name>
                <name>Mason, B</name>
                <name>Xenophon, N</name>
                <name>Johnston, </name>
              </names>
            </pairs>
          </division.data>
          <division.result>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to.</p>
            </body>
          </division.result>
        </division></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>5266</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Community Affairs Legislation Committee</title>
          <page.no>5266</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Reporting Date</title>
            <page.no>5266</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:10</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BUSHBY</name>
    <name.id>HLL</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>At the request of the chair of the committee, Senator Seselja, I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the time for the presentation of the report of the Community Affairs Legislation Committee on the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Amendment (A Stronger Land Account) Bill 2014 be extended to 29 October 2014.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BILLS</title>
        <page.no>5266</page.no>
        <type>BILLS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Defence Legislation Amendment (Parliamentary Approval of Overseas Service) Bill 2014</title>
          <page.no>5266</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" style="" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" background="">
            <a type="Bill" href="s970">
              <p style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;" class="HPS-SubDebate">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Defence Legislation Amendment (Parliamentary Approval of Overseas Service) Bill 2014</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>First Reading</title>
            <page.no>5266</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:11</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LUDLAM</name>
    <name.id>I07</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the following bill be introduced: A Bill for an Act to amend the law relating to defence to provide for parliamentary approval of overseas service by members of the Defence Force, and for related purposes.</para></quote>
<para>I would add that this is the 29th year that this bill will have been on the <inline font-style="italic">Notice Paper</inline>.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LUDLAM</name>
    <name.id>I07</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I present the bill and move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill may proceed without formalities and be now read a first time.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a first time.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>5266</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:12</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LUDLAM</name>
    <name.id>I07</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill be now read a second time.</para></quote>
<para>I seek leave to table an explanatory memorandum relating to the bill.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LUDLAM</name>
    <name.id>I07</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I table the explanatory memorandum and I seek leave to have the second reading speech incorporated into <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline>.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">The speech read as follows—</inline></para>
<quote><para class="block">DEFENCE LEGISLATION AMENDMENT (PARLIAMENTARY APPROVAL OF OVERSEAS SERVICE) BILL 2014</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australia is one of the few remaining democracies that can legally deploy its defence forces into conflict zones without recourse to the Parliament: the decision is reserved to the executive alone. As kindred democracies around the world have enacted reforms to vest the so-called 'War Power' in elected Parliaments, Australia has remained anchored to a pre-democratic tradition founded in hereditary monarchies and feudal states.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">If this anachronism had served Australia well, it might be possible to mount an argument that "if it isn't broken, it doesn't need fixing."</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">If the horror unfolding in Iraq does not comprehensively put this view to rest, it is difficult to imagine what would. On the basis of fabricated and wilfully misinterpreted intelligence, Prime Minister John Howard followed the United States and the United Kingdom into an illegal and open-ended war in Iraq. Our Parliament, and by extension the voting public of Australia, were cut out of the decision, despite the fact that hundreds of millions of people around the world organised and campaigned against the decision to go to war.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">There are few credible analysts left anywhere who do not regard the decision by hardliners within the Bush Administration to invade Iraq as one of the most grievous strategic disasters in modern history. The vast majority of Australians were right, and the executive authorities in the US, the UK and Australia, were wrong. No inquiry into the decision to go to war has ever been held in Australia, only a handful of piecemeal attempts to pin the blame on intelligence services and shift focus away from the actions of the Howard Government.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">At the time, Iraq was not threatening war. There was no connection or allegiance between the secular Baathist regime that ruled Iraq and the fundamentalist Al Qaeda networks responsible for the 9/11 attacks. There were no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, and hadn't been since 1991. Intelligence agencies within the US, the UK and Australia understood these facts, but inflexible groupthink prevailed within the White House, Downing Street and the Prime Minister's office here in Australia. It was rumoured at the time that Australian Special Forces units were among the very first on the ground inside Iraq, even before President Bush went on live television to announce that Operation Iraqi Freedom had commenced.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australia is entirely complicit in the violent, decade-long occupation that shattered Iraq's social and economic structures, and ignited long-dormant sectarian tensions that now threaten to plunge the crippled country into full-blown civil war.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">At the time of speaking, Sunni fundamentalists considered too extreme to remain part of Al Qaeda have established a new Caliphate in territory carved out of Syria and Iraq. The brittle institutions of Iraqi governance, bombed into existence by the United States, now threaten to collapse entirely.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">If there is a strategic policy failure more complete than the catastrophic invasion of Iraq, it is difficult to recall it. This dismal outcome was predicted at the time by many of those who opposed the war, but the executive's lock on the process means that the normal Parliamentary processes of critique and accountability were bypassed. Somewhere between 100,000 and one million Iraqis have paid for this obscene oversight with their lives.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Should Prime Minister Abbott decide to compound the strategic incompetence of 2003 with a further deployment as the security environment in Iraq deteriorates, the Australian Parliament, and the Australian people, would be cut out of the decision again.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Concurrently with the Iraq deployment, Australia has also fought a long, costly, and ultimately futile war in Afghanistan. The heaviest cost was carried by the Afghan people: tens of thousands of civilians killed, maimed and traumatised as the US Government's saturation bombing campaign transitioned into a long, untenable occupation. Forty one Australian soldiers have lost their lives in Afghanistan. Out of respect to them and their families, Parliament pauses to acknowledge their sacrifice when news breaks of another death. No such respects are paid to those Afghans who also paid the ultimate price; no-one even appears to be keeping count.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It is no longer tenable that the decision to deploy into conflict zones should be left to the executive alone. Our current Defence Act does not allow for any level of transparent decision making, scrutiny and debate, but this is an artefact of legislation, not the natural order of things.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The <inline font-style="italic">Defence Legislation Amendment (Parliamentary Approval of Overseas Service) Bill 2014</inline> inserts a new section 50C into the Defence Act to require that decisions to deploy members of the Australian Defence Force beyond the territorial limits be made not by the executive alone but by Parliament as a whole. This means debate in both houses, followed by a vote.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill was initiated by the Australian Democrats and supported by the Australian Greens, who took carriage of the Bill after 2007. It is the latest iteration of a Bill introduced into the Senate in 1985. In 2015 it will mark its 30th year of languishing in plain sight while Liberal and Labor Prime Ministers alike reserve this power to themselves, plunging Australia into a tragic series of overseas expeditionary wars that have had little or nothing to do with the defence of Australia or collective security.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In August 2009, I referred the Bill to the Senate Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade. The majority of the committee resolved to refuse to take evidence in a hearing. Nonetheless, the Committee made a useful critique of the Bill without undermining its essential purpose, in its report of February 2010.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">My dissenting report into the Bill provided the transcript of an informal hearing that we held, after the majority committee's short-sighted decision not to take evidence directly from witnesses.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill would bring Australia into conformity with principles and practices utilised in other democracies including Denmark, Finland, Germany, Ireland, Slovakia, South Korea, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland and Turkey, where troop deployment is set down in constitutional or legislative provisions. Some form of parliamentary approval or consultation is also routinely undertaken in Austria, the Czech Republic, Italy, Japan, Luxembourg, the Netherlands and Norway. Our ally the United States has a similar provision that subjects the decision to go to war to a broader forum—section 8 of Article I of the US Constitution quite clearly says, "Congress shall have power to declare war". In the wake of the disaster in Iraq, the Westminster Parliament now holds the de-facto war power, a new convention that prevented a rushed deployment into Syria earlier in 2014.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Arguments against vesting the power over troop deployment to Parliament include that it would be impractical, restrictive and inefficient. Such arguments ignore the fact that parliaments can and do make complex and nuanced decisions, rapidly when necessary. As we have seen, decisions about war and peace made in undue haste that do not enjoy the mandate of the population – expressed through the Parliament, if nowhere else – have no legitimacy.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">There are appropriate exemptions made in this Bill to avoid interfering with the non-warlike overseas service with which Australian troops are engaged – referring in particular to new subsection 50C(11). There are also appropriate exemptions in the Bill to provide for the practicalities of situations where Parliament cannot immediately meet – referring to subsections 50(3) and (7), which provide for the Governor-General to be able to make a proclamation regarding the declaration of war, provided that Parliament is then recalled within a period of two days.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It is time that Australia joined its closest allies and like-minded democratic states by involving the Parliament in the decision to deploy the ADF. The entwined tragedies of our recent military misadventures, and the threat that history may soon repeat, make passage of this Bill more urgent than ever.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Once again, I commend the Bill to the Senate.</para></quote>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LUDLAM</name>
    <name.id>I07</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to continue my remarks later.</para>
<para>Leave granted; debate adjourned.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>5269</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Australian Defence Force</title>
          <page.no>5269</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>5269</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:12</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator MADIGAN</name>
    <name.id>217571</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>At the request of Senator Xenophon, I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That there be laid on the table by the Minister for Defence, no later than 4 pm on Friday, 18 July 2014, a document providing the following information:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) the name of the successful tenderer for Australian Defence Force boots, Tender DMOLSD/RFT0129/2012; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) the price differential of the winning tenderer compared to that of the closest Australian tenderer as per one of the following ranges:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) less than 10 per cent,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) between 10 per cent and 20 per cent,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(iii) between 20 per cent and 30 per cent,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(iv) between 30 per cent and 40 per cent, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(v) 50 per cent and over.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>MOTIONS</title>
        <page.no>5269</page.no>
        <type>MOTIONS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>National Electricity Rules</title>
          <page.no>5269</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:13</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator MADIGAN</name>
    <name.id>217571</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>At the request of Senator Xenophon, I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) notes that:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) over the past 6 years electricity prices have more than doubled for average households, with the carbon tax being one of the elements of that price increase, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) network charges have been responsible for approximately two-thirds of this rise in power prices; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) calls on the Government to urgently review the National Electricity Rules governing the setting of network prices by taking a leadership role in the Council of Australian Governments to ensure a review of the rules by the Australian Energy Market Commission.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Budget</title>
          <page.no>5269</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:13</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WRIGHT</name>
    <name.id>200287</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to table a report that is referred to in the motion that I will move.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WRIGHT</name>
    <name.id>200287</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I table the document Budget 2014 Policy Briefing Papers from ConNetica, and I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) notes the findings of the Connetica Budget 2014 Policy Briefing Papers which outline:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) the disproportionate burden the 2014-15 budget cuts will place on young people,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) the potential for an increase in suicides and mental ill-health among young Australians as a result of harsh budget measures, including changes to Newstart, increases to university fees, cutting the Tools for your Trade program, and ending support programs like Youth Connections, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(iii) that isolation, dislocation, loneliness, hopelessness and unemployment can increase anxiety, despair and depression;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) recognises that public policy has a direct impact on the mental health and wellbeing of the community; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) urges the Government to reverse budget decisions which will adversely affect the mental health of young Australians.</para></quote>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>00AOP</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the motion be agreed to.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
          <division.header>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [12:19]<br />(The Deputy President—Senator Marshall)</p>
            </body>
          </division.header>
          <division.data>
            <ayes>
              <num.votes>33</num.votes>
              <title>AYES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Brown, CL</name>
                <name>Bullock, J.W.</name>
                <name>Cameron, DN</name>
                <name>Collins, JMA</name>
                <name>Conroy, SM</name>
                <name>Dastyari, S</name>
                <name>Di Natale, R</name>
                <name>Faulkner, J</name>
                <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                <name>Ketter, CR</name>
                <name>Lambie, J</name>
                <name>Lazarus, GP</name>
                <name>Lines, S</name>
                <name>Ludlam, S</name>
                <name>Ludwig, JW</name>
                <name>Lundy, KA</name>
                <name>McEwen, A (teller)</name>
                <name>McLucas, J</name>
                <name>Milne, C</name>
                <name>Moore, CM</name>
                <name>Muir, R</name>
                <name>O'Neill, DM</name>
                <name>Peris, N</name>
                <name>Rhiannon, L</name>
                <name>Rice, J</name>
                <name>Siewert, R</name>
                <name>Singh, LM</name>
                <name>Sterle, G</name>
                <name>Wang, Z</name>
                <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                <name>Wright, PL</name>
              </names>
            </ayes>
            <noes>
              <num.votes>30</num.votes>
              <title>NOES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Back, CJ</name>
                <name>Birmingham, SJ</name>
                <name>Brandis, GH</name>
                <name>Bushby, DC (teller)</name>
                <name>Canavan, M.J.</name>
                <name>Cash, MC</name>
                <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                <name>Cormann, M</name>
                <name>Day, R.J.</name>
                <name>Edwards, S</name>
                <name>Fawcett, DJ</name>
                <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                <name>Fifield, MP</name>
                <name>Heffernan, W</name>
                <name>Johnston, D</name>
                <name>Leyonhjelm, DE</name>
                <name>Macdonald, ID</name>
                <name>McGrath, J</name>
                <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                <name>Nash, F</name>
                <name>O'Sullivan, B</name>
                <name>Payne, MA</name>
                <name>Reynolds, L</name>
                <name>Ruston, A</name>
                <name>Ryan, SM</name>
                <name>Scullion, NG</name>
                <name>Seselja, Z</name>
                <name>Sinodinos, A</name>
                <name>Smith, D</name>
                <name>Williams, JR</name>
              </names>
            </noes>
            <pairs>
              <num.votes>0</num.votes>
              <title>PAIRS</title>
              <names></names>
            </pairs>
          </division.data>
          <division.result>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to.</p>
            </body>
          </division.result>
        </division></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Asylum Seekers</title>
          <page.no>5271</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:21</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON-YOUNG</name>
    <name.id>I0U</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<para>That the Senate calls on the Government to cease the current 'on water' screening and transfers of asylum seekers which the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees has said fall well short of Australia's international obligations and could mean that asylum seekers were returned, or refouled, to persecution.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:22</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CASH</name>
    <name.id>I0M</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a short statement.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>00AOP</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Leave is granted for one minute.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CASH</name>
    <name.id>I0M</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The government will not be supporting this motion. The government forthrightly reject the suggestion that Australia is in any way in breach of our international obligations. Australia returned to Sri Lanka 37 Singhalese and four Tamils because none engaged in any of Australia's protection obligations and hence were not refugees. To suggest otherwise provides tacit approval for illegal migration. The government's focus is to do everything in its power to prevent people smuggling and loss of life at sea.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>00AOP</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that general business notice of motion No. 361 be agreed to.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
          <division.header>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [12:27]<br />(The Deputy President—Senator Marshall)</p>
            </body>
          </division.header>
          <division.data>
            <ayes>
              <num.votes>29</num.votes>
              <title>AYES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Brown, CL</name>
                <name>Bullock, J.W.</name>
                <name>Cameron, DN</name>
                <name>Collins, JMA</name>
                <name>Conroy, SM</name>
                <name>Dastyari, S</name>
                <name>Di Natale, R</name>
                <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                <name>Ketter, CR</name>
                <name>Lines, S</name>
                <name>Ludlam, S</name>
                <name>Ludwig, JW</name>
                <name>Lundy, KA</name>
                <name>Madigan, JJ</name>
                <name>McEwen, A (teller)</name>
                <name>McLucas, J</name>
                <name>Milne, C</name>
                <name>Moore, CM</name>
                <name>O'Neill, DM</name>
                <name>Peris, N</name>
                <name>Rhiannon, L</name>
                <name>Rice, J</name>
                <name>Siewert, R</name>
                <name>Singh, LM</name>
                <name>Sterle, G</name>
                <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                <name>Wright, PL</name>
              </names>
            </ayes>
            <noes>
              <num.votes>33</num.votes>
              <title>NOES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Back, CJ</name>
                <name>Birmingham, SJ</name>
                <name>Brandis, GH</name>
                <name>Bushby, DC (teller)</name>
                <name>Canavan, M.J.</name>
                <name>Cash, MC</name>
                <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                <name>Cormann, M</name>
                <name>Day, R.J.</name>
                <name>Edwards, S</name>
                <name>Fawcett, DJ</name>
                <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                <name>Fifield, MP</name>
                <name>Heffernan, W</name>
                <name>Lambie, J</name>
                <name>Lazarus, GP</name>
                <name>Leyonhjelm, DE</name>
                <name>Macdonald, ID</name>
                <name>McGrath, J</name>
                <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                <name>Muir, R</name>
                <name>Nash, F</name>
                <name>O'Sullivan, B</name>
                <name>Payne, MA</name>
                <name>Reynolds, L</name>
                <name>Ruston, A</name>
                <name>Ryan, SM</name>
                <name>Scullion, NG</name>
                <name>Seselja, Z</name>
                <name>Sinodinos, A</name>
                <name>Smith, D</name>
                <name>Wang, Z</name>
                <name>Williams, JR</name>
              </names>
            </noes>
            <pairs>
              <num.votes>0</num.votes>
              <title>PAIRS</title>
              <names></names>
            </pairs>
          </division.data>
          <division.result>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
            </body>
          </division.result>
        </division></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>5272</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Abbot Point</title>
          <page.no>5272</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>5272</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:29</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATERS</name>
    <name.id>192970</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) That there be laid on the table by the Minister representing the Minister for the Environment, no later than noon on 26 August 2014, any document in relation to the water quality offset imposed on the Abbot Point dredging and dumping approvals in December 2013 that discusses or assesses:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) the likely costs of offsetting 150 per cent of fine sediments 'potentially available for resuspension';</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) the contributions of North Queensland Bulk Ports, Adani or GVK to accomplishing this offset; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) contributions from the Queensland or Federal governments to accomplishing this offset.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) Documents previously released publicly pursuant to freedom of information or Senate orders for production of documents need not be included.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:30</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a short statement.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>00AOP</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Leave is granted for one minute.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The motion relates to documents on offsets for the Abbot Point coal port approval. The question of offsets for this approval is a matter currently before the Federal Court and proceedings commenced by Mackay Conservation Group. This is the second motion in relation to the Abbot Point proceedings that this chamber has considered this year. The Federal Court has appropriate processes and procedures relating to the disclosure and use of documentation. The rights of the parties, being not only the Commonwealth but also commercial entities like NQBP, Adani and GVK, are protected through these processes and procedures.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:31</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATERS</name>
    <name.id>192970</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a very brief statement.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>00AOP</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Leave is granted for one minute.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATERS</name>
    <name.id>192970</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I will clarify for the benefit of Senator Fifield that the matters before the court are not in conflict with the subject of this order for production of documents. The order relates specifically to whether or not the government will be contributing to costs of the proponents complying with an offset condition, which many believe is ludicrous and impossible—but that is beside the point. There is no conflict on that particular point between that and what is before the courts. I would urge the senator to support the motion.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>00AOP</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the motion moved by Senator Waters be agreed to.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [12:33]<br />(The Deputy President—Senator Marshall)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>32</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Bullock, J.W.</name>
                  <name>Cameron, DN</name>
                  <name>Collins, JMA</name>
                  <name>Dastyari, S</name>
                  <name>Day, R.J.</name>
                  <name>Di Natale, R</name>
                  <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                  <name>Ketter, CR</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J</name>
                  <name>Lazarus, GP</name>
                  <name>Leyonhjelm, DE</name>
                  <name>Ludlam, S</name>
                  <name>Ludwig, JW</name>
                  <name>Lundy, KA</name>
                  <name>Madigan, JJ</name>
                  <name>McEwen, A (teller)</name>
                  <name>McLucas, J</name>
                  <name>Milne, C</name>
                  <name>Moore, CM</name>
                  <name>Muir, R</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, DM</name>
                  <name>Peris, N</name>
                  <name>Rhiannon, L</name>
                  <name>Rice, J</name>
                  <name>Siewert, R</name>
                  <name>Singh, LM</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G</name>
                  <name>Wang, Z</name>
                  <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                  <name>Wright, PL</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>25</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Back, CJ</name>
                  <name>Birmingham, SJ</name>
                  <name>Brandis, GH</name>
                  <name>Bushby, DC (teller)</name>
                  <name>Canavan, M.J.</name>
                  <name>Cash, MC</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                  <name>Cormann, M</name>
                  <name>Edwards, S</name>
                  <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                  <name>Fifield, MP</name>
                  <name>Heffernan, W</name>
                  <name>Macdonald, ID</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                  <name>Nash, F</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, B</name>
                  <name>Payne, MA</name>
                  <name>Reynolds, L</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A</name>
                  <name>Scullion, NG</name>
                  <name>Seselja, Z</name>
                  <name>Sinodinos, A</name>
                  <name>Smith, D</name>
                  <name>Williams, JR</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names></names>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division></subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BUSINESS</title>
        <page.no>5274</page.no>
        <type>BUSINESS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Consideration of Legislation</title>
          <page.no>5274</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:35</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LUDLAM</name>
    <name.id>I07</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That further consideration of the National Security Legislation Amendment Bill (No. 1) 2014 be postponed and made an order of the day for the later of:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) 8 September 2014; or</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) the next day of sitting after the Government complies with Recommendation 41 of the report of the Parliamentary Joint Committee on Intelligence and Security, <inline font-style="italic">Report of the inquiry into potential reforms of Australia's National Security Legislation</inline> , at least, by seeking the views of the Independent National Security Legislation Monitor and the Inspector-General of Intelligence and Security on the bill, and tabling a copy of those views in the Senate.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:35</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator JACINTA COLLINS</name>
    <name.id>GB6</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a one-minute statement.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>00AOP</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Leave is granted for one minute.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator JACINTA COLLINS</name>
    <name.id>GB6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Any extension of the powers of our intelligence agencies needs to have appropriate scrutiny by politicians, the Australian community and key stakeholders such as the Inspector General of Intelligence and Security. For this reason, Labor welcomes the fact that the National Security Legislation Amendment Bill (No. 1) 2014 has now been referred to Joint Committee on Intelligence and Security and that there will now be an appropriate period for the public and key stakeholders to also comment on the significant changes being proposed. With respect to the Independent National Security Legislation Monitor, I welcome Senator Brandis's announcement yesterday that the government is backing down on its plan to abolish that office. Labor fought against the abolition of this important role. While we do not support Senator Ludlam's motion today, if an appropriately credentialed and experienced monitor can be appointed expeditiously by the government, Labor would certainly welcome the new monitor's views on the bill that is proposed.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>00AOP</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that general business notice motion No. 364 be agreed to.</para>
<para>Question negatived.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>MOTIONS</title>
        <page.no>5274</page.no>
        <type>MOTIONS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>International AIDS Conference</title>
          <page.no>5274</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:37</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SMITH</name>
    <name.id>241710</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate notes:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) That the 20th International AIDS Conference is being held in Melbourne from 20 July to 25 July 2014, and will be attended by about 12 000 delegates from nearly 200 countries representing science, civil society, politics and the private sector;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) that this biennial conference is the premier international gathering for those working in the field of HIV, policy makers and people living with HIV;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) Australia's resolve to work with governments, the business community and civil society across the region to reach the goals That the international community has set – zero new infections, zero AIDS related deaths and zero discrimination;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(d) that while HIV/AIDS in Australia is lower than in many comparable nations, around 5 million people in our region are living with HIV/AIDS;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(e) that Australia has spent A$1billion combatting HIV/AIDS in our region over the past decade and has committed $200 million over 3 years to support the Global Fund to Fight AIDS, Tuberculosis and Malaria, and That the Global Fund has already invested around $US6.8billion in the Indo Pacific region delivering HIV treatment to over 700 000 people; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(f) the Australian Government's release on 7 July 2014 of the 7th National HIV Strategy and its commitment to reverse the increasing trend of new HIV diagnosis and work towards the virtual elimination of HIV transmission by 2020.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Aboriginal Eye Health</title>
          <page.no>5275</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:37</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SIEWERT</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I, and also on behalf of Senator Peris, move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) notes:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) the launch of the Roadmap to Close the Gap for Vision by the University of Melbourne released in July 2014,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) that Aboriginal adults are 6 times more likely to become blind than non-Aboriginal Australians, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(iii) that 94 per cent of vision loss in Aboriginal adult Australians is preventable or treatable; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) urges the Federal Government to:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) review the report and provide national leadership on eye health, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) address the gap between Aboriginal and non-Aboriginal eye health as a matter of priority.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>5275</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Finance and Public Administration References Committee</title>
          <page.no>5275</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Report</title>
            <page.no>5275</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:38</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LUNDY</name>
    <name.id>7G6</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Pursuant to order, I present the report of the Senate Finance and Public Administration References Committee on Commonwealth procurement procedures, together with the <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline> record of proceedings and documents presented to the committee.</para>
<para>Ordered that the report be printed.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LUNDY</name>
    <name.id>7G6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate take note of the report.</para></quote>
<para>This important inquiry has explored the operation and effectiveness or, indeed, otherwise of the Commonwealth procurement rules. These rules set out the processes and rules for government purchasing. We also explored in some depth procurement related policies, which, interestingly, are not overseen by the Department of Finance but a range of other departments to which those procurement related policies belong.</para>
<para>The inquiry explored the impact of Australia's international obligations arising from bilateral free trade agreements on procurement policies. The committee formed the view that government procurement policies, as part of the value-for-money assessment, should take into account the effect of those procurement decisions on communities and the broader economy.</para>
<para>Throughout this inquiry, witnesses made clear to the committee that the value-for-money proposition is not merely a matter of comparing prices; it ought to be a matter of assessing the broader benefit, as well as the costs of the available options. For example, the committee received evidence suggesting that the procurement of locally produced stationery had definite economic benefits for government, including greater government tax revenues from individuals and companies, the benefit of supporting Australian jobs and, indeed, the development of Australian workers' skills in this area.</para>
<para>Mr Travis Wacey from the CFMEU reflected on the estimate of job losses in the paper and forestry industries as a result of Australian Paper not being awarded the envelopes contract in 2013 by DHS. He said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">We are not just talking about one or two jobs; we think that 15 to 20 direct production jobs were triggered by the loss of this contract, and it is a situation representing literally hundreds of thousands of dollars, if not millions of dollars in lost taxpayer revenue in the short, medium and longer term just for the $8,000 benefit.</para></quote>
<para>That was the difference in the bottom line price in that particular tender. It was noted:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Australian Paper also provides significant revenue to all levels of Government; equivalent to $1.81 for each and every A4 ream of copy paper that we make and totalling $432 Million in 2012.</para></quote>
<para>These are just some of the considerations that brought the committee to the conclusion that there is an urgent need for a stronger methodology to assess whole-of-life costs within the value-for-money assessment component of procurement decision-making. It is quite a mouthful, but this issue goes to the heart of how Australian industry has opportunities to compete on a level playing field.</para>
<para>The committee formed the view that, with consideration of the broad economic benefits of procurement as part of a comprehensive value-for-money assessment and the effective application of the range of procurement related policies, combined with the scrutiny and accountability measures contained in our recommendations, procurement outcomes for Australian companies would be considerably improved without impacting on our international bilateral trade obligations and without necessarily needing to change the procurement rules dramatically. In fact, one of the issues was that, if all of the procurement related policies and rules were applied with a genuine whole-of life, value-for-money assessment, the policy would not need to change much at all. It is about the application, effectiveness, oversight, transparency and genuineness of the objectives contained within procurement policies.</para>
<para>There was quite a deal of concern from a number of industries, including the IT industry. We heard evidence from Michelle Melbourne and Suzanne Campbell, representing the Business Council of the ACT and the Australian Information Industry Association. They spoke specifically about a company called Intelledox. Michelle Melbourne, through her own experience, reflected on this and said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… it is not an even playing field … over there; it just isn't … So we—</para></quote>
<para>that is, Australia—</para>
<quote><para class="block">follow the rules with the free trade agreement, but the US do not do that. They are fiercely parochial. Each state and procurement body that you deal with over there asks you: 'Who is your local partner?</para></quote>
<para>The committee asked for details on how our international free trade agreements apply. The evidence we got is that we seem to not utilise the range of exemptions that are available for small to medium sized Australian businesses to the extent that our partners in these free trade agreements do. Therefore, our recommendations point to an exploration of the scope to work within those obligations—no-one is suggesting stepping out of those obligations—to fully garner the benefit that other nations have through those bilaterals and support our small to medium sized enterprises.</para>
<para>I am very conscious of time and I will, at the conclusion, seek leave to continue my remarks. However, can I thank the committee secretariat, in particular, Lyn Beverleyand Ann Palmer, and a particular thank you to my Senate colleagues, who worked constructively. A minority report came in from government senators, who, interestingly, agree with some, certainly not all, of our recommendations.</para>
<para>I would particularly like to acknowledge Senators Madigan and Xenophon, who have supported the recommendations of the majority committee and added strength and detail in their own words as they continue to promote these issues relating to Australian companies' access to Commonwealth contracts. The key issue is in the capacity of companies to grow and expand and support the local community. I seek leave to continue my remarks later.</para>
<para>Leave granted; debate adjourned.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BILLS</title>
        <page.no>5277</page.no>
        <type>BILLS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Asset Recycling Fund Bill 2014, Asset Recycling Fund (Consequential Amendments) Bill 2014</title>
          <page.no>5277</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" style="" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" background="">
            <p>
              <a type="Bill" href="r5255">
                <p style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;" class="HPS-SubDebate">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Asset Recycling Fund Bill 2014</span>
                </p>
              </a>
            </p>
            <a type="Bill" href="r5256">
              <p style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;" class="HPS-SubDebate">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Asset Recycling Fund (Consequential Amendments) Bill 2014</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>5277</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:45</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PERIS</name>
    <name.id>CDK</name.id>
    <electorate>Northern Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I continue to talk to the Asset Recycling Fund Bill 2014 and related bill. If I can go back to where I was before the debate was interrupted. The people of the Northern Territory know that selling Power and Water will guarantee two things; higher prices and longer, more frequent blackouts. So I am very concerned that Power and Water will be sold off under the scheme if this bill is passed.</para>
<para>I am also concerned that the people of the Northern Territory will get no say. It will just be announced one day and that is the way the Northern Territory government currently operates. We will wake up one morning and there will be an article on the front page of the <inline font-style="italic">Northern Territory News</inline> telling us that Power and Water will be sold. A deal has been done with the Abbott government and it will be sold. The Territory Insurance Office, TIO, is the only remaining government-owned insurance and banking institution in the country. There has been much talk about the potential sale of Power and Water over many years. As the only remaining financial institution in government ownership, it can be seen by some as an obvious candidate for sale. But let me tell you that people in the Northern Territory do not want it sold.</para>
<para>Living in a cyclone-prone area we have an extra interest in home and contents insurance. It is already expensive and people simply do not want TIO sold. Again, from their public comments, the Northern Territory government are clearly looking at selling TIO. They refuse to rule it out.</para>
<para>The next candidate is the Port of Darwin. The port is less visible in the day-to-day lives of people in the Northern Territory than Power and Water, and TIO. But it is still extremely important to Territorians. Private investment in the port and its operations should be encouraged but, in an underdeveloped economy, we should not be selling off the assets that are so crucial to our plans to develop the north. Again, it would be outrageous if funds for our roads, to get cattle and minerals to the port, depended on the sale of our port. Those are my concerns about what the Northern Territory government would do with this fund.</para>
<para>That is why I support Labor's position on any potential sale that it be subject to a disallowable instrument. If the CLP government sell off any of our assets without proper consultation process or against the public interest, then we can block it from being eligible for sale under this scheme.</para>
<para>If a state or territory government go through the proper processes of selling an asset, if they undertake a full cost-benefit analysis and take their plans to an election and receive the endorsement of the community and the people of the Northern Territory, then and only then a contribution from the Commonwealth under this scheme will be warranted.</para>
<para>However if a government—and the CLP government in the Northern Territory are probably the most unlikely to do this—just suddenly announce a sale without any analysis and in complete opposition to community sentiment, then it is not appropriate that the Commonwealth support the sale through this scheme.</para>
<para>Finally, these are my main points. Our infrastructure spending should not be dependent on selling our infrastructure. In order to get our fair share of infrastructure funding, we should not be required to sell off our vital public assets. I am concerned that the Commonwealth government will use this fund to encourage the Northern Territory government to sell off our assets. I am also concerned that the Northern Territory government will use this fund to do what they want to do and that is to sell off our assets.</para>
<para>We are only getting less than one per cent of the Abbott government's infrastructure budget over the next seven years. Selling everything is not the solution. The Commonwealth parliament should be allowed to block a sale through a disallowable instrument.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:49</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BILYK</name>
    <name.id>HZB</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Asset Recycling Fund Bill 2014 and the Asset Recycling Fund (Consequential Amendments) Bill 2014 are a desperate and belated attempt by the Abbott government to gain some credentials as an 'infrastructure government'. It is though infrastructure is an afterthought to them, not something they care a great deal about. The government do not even go close to matching the former Labor government's record investment in infrastructure.</para>
<para>After all, it was Labor that invested $16.2 billion during the height of the global financial crisis, through the BER program, Building the Education Revolution, to build the school infrastructure of the 21st century. This was investment which helped stimulate the economy. We saved hundreds of thousands of jobs during the GFC, opposed by those opposite who, had they got their way, would have seen Australia plunged into recession.</para>
<para>Our economic stimulus plan, including the BER program, was praised by Nobel prize winning economist Joseph Stiglitz as being well designed. In fact, Professor Stiglitz said that, had it not been for the economic stimulus package designed by Labor and opposed by the economic neophytes opposite, Australia's national debt would have been considerably larger.</para>
<para>It was a Labor government which initiated Australia's largest ever national infrastructure project. I am talking, of course, about the National Broadband Network. I cannot emphasise enough how people from my home state of Tasmania, who are now connected to the network, are describing to me the transformative effect it is having on their lives and businesses.</para>
<para>Infrastructure spending overall under Labor went up by 42 per cent since the last full year of the Howard government—a government which paid very little attention to building Australia's infrastructure. Labor lifted annual infrastructure spending in Australia, from $132 per person to $225. We upgraded 7,500 kilometres of Australia's road network and upgraded 4,000 kilometres of Australia's rail network. Road spending doubled under Labor and we invested $13.6 billion in urban rail—more than had been invested by all of our predecessors combined since Federation. We also invested a further $3.4 billion in rail freight, which has been of great benefit to my home state of Tasmania, which relies heavily on rail for the transportation of freight across the state.</para>
<para>When Labor took office, Australia ranked 20th in the OECD in infrastructure spending; because of Labor's record investment in infrastructure, Australia now ranks first. In my home state of Tasmania, we saw significant investment going into the south of the state for the first time in over a decade. While the Howard government had focused on projects in the marginal electorates of Bass and Braddon, Labor delivered hundreds of millions of dollars in funding to projects such as the Blundstone Arena upgrade; the Brighton bypass and transport hub; the Kingston bypass upgrades to the Brooker Highway; trade training centres and GP superclinics; the Huon Valley and south-east Tasmania water schemes; and several of the first rollout sites of Labor's National Broadband Network—that is, the real NBN, not the coalition's second-rate alternative. Under a Labor government, the annual infrastructure spending to Tasmania almost doubled—from $157 per Tasmanian to $264 per Tasmanian. Not only did Labor in government dramatically boost Australia's infrastructure investment, we implemented important reforms to make sure that we got the best value out of all our infrastructure spending.</para>
<para>Infrastructure Australia was established as an independent expert authority to advise the government—and, more importantly, the public—on Australia's infrastructure needs. One of Infrastructure Australia's roles is to evaluate the contribution of proposed infrastructure projects and rank them in order of their contribution to Australia's productivity. An important part of this reform was that Infrastructure Australia's advice be provided to the public. Part of the reason Infrastructure Australia was established with this function was to give the Australian government an incentive to invest in the infrastructure projects that provided the best outcomes for Australians, not the best outcomes for the government's political fortunes.</para>
<para>Unfortunately though, pork-barrelling to marginal electorates has been a longstanding practice of coalition governments—and one of the reasons why we need a national body to provide independent advice on infrastructure. Our reforms to infrastructure funding were implemented after the Australian National Audit Office released a damning report on the Howard government's Regional Partnerships program. The report said that the program had 'fallen short of an acceptable standard of public administration'. Grants had been provided for projects that had not been properly assessed, that government departments had advised against, and—listen to this—to groups that had not even applied for funding. You did not even have to apply for funding and you got some!</para>
<para>I am pleased that the government has not proceeded with its previous plans to gag Infrastructure Australia and take away its independence and has agreed to the Senate's amendments to its bill. It was completely bizarre that the government guillotined debate on that bill in the House back in December but did not bring it to the Senate until as late as June this year. Perhaps they finally succumbed to pressure from the business community, who supported Labor's call that infrastructure policy actually be made on the basis of what is in the national interest. The attacks by the Abbott government on the independence of Infrastructure Australia were just one part of the story of this government's poor record on infrastructure. The coalition has made various attempts to trumpet its achievements as 'an infrastructure government'—and all of them have fallen flat. After all, this is the government which has scrapped both the Regional Infrastructure Fund and the Regional Development Australia Fund. The government's decision to gut funding for regional Australia has been supported by, strangely, the Nationals, who continue their bizarre charade of pretending to stand up for regional Australia.</para>
<para>The Abbott government has claimed credit for various road and rail projects, worth more than $12 billion, despite these projects already being announced and funded by Labor. A great example of one of the road projects funded by Labor and then re-announced by the coalition is the Huon Highway-Summerleas Road intersection. This particular intersection is in the electorate of Franklin and just a stone's throw from my electorate office in Kingston. I stood at that intersection, with the federal member for Franklin, Julie Collins, in August when Labor announced a $17.5 million commitment to the intersection which had been funded in the 2013-14 federal budget. So I was quite amused to see a contribution from Senator Bushby in the local newspaper, the <inline font-style="italic">Kingborough Chronicle</inline>, in which he announced that the government was funding this project where Labor had 'failed to deliver on it'. Senator Bushby referred to years of inaction by state and federal Labor governments and said that the dangerous intersection was of great concern to him. It is interesting, therefore, that Senator Bushby was strangely silent on the intersection during the federal election. Maybe that is because the coalition failed to match Labor's $17.5 million commitment until February the following year, a full five months after the election, even though the upgrade had already been funded in the previous year's budget.</para>
<para>After failing to commit to this and several other funded infrastructure projects in the south of Tasmania, the Abbott government has now set about re-announcing them as if they were its own. These projects include the Huon Highway-Summerleas Road intersection; upgrades to the Brooker Highway between Elwick Road and Howard Road; and Tasman Highway on and off ramps at the East Derwent Highway intersection. The Abbott Government has still failed to make up the $100 million shortfall in Labor's funding for the Midland Highway. While Labor had provided $500 million funding for upgrades to the highway, the Abbott government announced that it would provide $400 million for the full duplication of the highway to four lanes. Good luck with that! In reality, this project would cost about $2 billion, whereas $400 million would probably provide duplication as far as Bridgewater to Bagdad. Unfortunately, it took until after the election for the Prime Minister to belatedly admit that $400 million would not provide for full duplication.</para>
<para>As if they have not embarrassed themselves enough in Tasmania, in the last budget the Abbott government triumphantly announced infrastructure spending of more than $40 billion over the next six years. But many of those projects were also recycled Labor commitments. Prior to this budget, Labor had already approved projects worth $35 billion over the next six years, and several of the coalition's new road projects—$5 billion worth—have been funded by ripping money out of rail projects. In fact, by refusing to fund any new rail or other public transport projects, this government is creating a perverse incentive for state and territory governments to divert funding to road projects even if roads do not provide the greatest productivity gain.</para>
<para>This is a double whammy for commuters, who will be faced with fewer public transport options and slugged another $2 billion to $3 billion with the government's reintroduction of the petrol excise. The budget also rips funding out of public transport concessions. Perhaps the government has a secret agenda of trying to get more transport users on the roads so that they can collect more revenue from the fuel tax hike. If that is not the reason, then I fail to see the logic in determining, as this government has, that roads are the responsibility of the Commonwealth but rail infrastructure is not. I would be willing to bet that most Australians are with me on that one too.</para>
<para>Of course roads are an important part of our transport infrastructure, but so is public transport. In fact, investment in public transport helps reduce traffic congestion, provides a cost-effective alternative for many commuters, and is better for the environment than car transport. But, unfortunately, the Abbott government seem unable to see the bigger picture when it comes to transport infrastructure funding. Unfortunately, they have also gone back to their old practice of pork-barrelling—the old practice that the Howard government engaged in.</para>
<para>According to Fairfax Media analysis, as reported in the <inline font-style="italic">Sydney Morning Herald</inline> last month, the infrastructure projects that have received new funding favour coalition electorates by a ratio of three to one. The <inline font-style="italic">Herald</inline> also pointed out that the majority of projects the Abbott government had withdrawn Commonwealth funding from were in non-coalition electorates. The <inline font-style="italic">Herald</inline> article quotes Monash University Professor of Transport, Graham Currie, who said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The question is whether they want to be a professional government or they want to pork-barrel, and whether we'll forge the idea of trying to be professional about how we manage resources or just do it on a political basis.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I don't think that's how a country should be run.</para></quote>
<para>So that, in a nutshell, is the Abbott government's record on infrastructure investment so far—pork-barrelling, recycling old projects, attempting to deny proper public assessments of projects and having a bizarre bias against rail projects in favour of roads for no explicable reason. The two bills that are now before the Senate, regrettably, do not improve on this record.</para>
<para>The two bills we are currently debating form part of the Abbott government's infrastructure package announced in the 2014-15 federal budget. The key element of the bills is the Asset Recycling Initiative, which will be used to incentivise the states and territories to invest in new productive infrastructure by privatising existing assets. The Commonwealth will provide a contribution of 15 per cent of the reinvested sale proceeds to the cost of the project. This initiative is still subject to a national partnership agreement.</para>
<para>With these bills, the government are up to their old tricks again—trumpeting the investment they are making in infrastructure when they are actually just redirecting money that is already committed to other things. In the case of the Asset Recycling Fund, the government are doing some recycling of their own—taking $2.4 billion of uncommitted funds from the Building Australia Fund and $3.5 billion of uncommitted funds from the Education Infrastructure Fund—for an initial contribution of $5.9 billion. Like the EIF and the BAF, the Asset Recycling Fund will be managed as part of the Future Fund. Unlike the EIF and the BAF, projects to be funded by the portfolio ministers will not be subject to recommendations by an advisory board as to the merit of the projects. It begs the question: how does the government know that a project is going to be 'productivity enhancing' when it is put forward for a grant or payment? Is it just another case of the government picking winners, like they will with their Emissions Reduction Fund? The more important question is: how does the public know? How can the public have confidence that this fund is actually investing in projects that produce an economic gain for Australia? They have provided no independent mechanism for ensuring the project will actually have productivity gains or for comparing the productivity gains of different proposals.</para>
<para>Labor achieved record investment in infrastructure, and we did so during the largest global economic crisis since the Depression. We also achieved this by funding projects on a 50-50 basis and without the need for state and territory governments to sell public assets. Given Labor's record investments in infrastructure in partnership with the states and territories, we believe that replacing this support with a 15 per cent incentive payment is a backward step. This government is handballing its responsibility for real investment in infrastructure to the states and territories. Wouldn't it be better if the government would help the states to fund their infrastructure priorities regardless of where the funds come from? Why does the government see it as necessary to provide the states with an incentive—or a 'bribe' as it was described by Chris Aulich, Professor of Public Administration at the University of Canberra—to privatise their assets?</para>
<para>We on this side believe that the concept of asset recycling can have merit in some circumstances. For example, in 2007 in my home state of Tasmania, there was a very sensible instance of asset recycling when the Labor government sold the Hobart Airport site and invested the proceeds in the Brighton transport hub, the Royal Hobart Hospital and irrigation projects. However, we want to ensure that the money that is invested in new projects is invested wisely—that Australians get maximum bang for their buck. After all, when state and territory governments privatise their assets they can only sell them once.</para>
<para>Labor will be moving amendments to this bill. The amendments will require, as a precondition for spending Commonwealth funds on the Asset Recycling Initiative: an assessment by Infrastructure Australia of the new infrastructure as 'productivity enhancing', including a published cost-benefit analysis; and tabling of a disallowable instrument for each privatisation and reinvestment transaction. I hope that the government senators and the crossbenchers will support our amendments to this bill. I am disappointed that the government did not support our amendments in the other place, as it was a good opportunity for them to demonstrate that they support transparency and due diligence. These amendments are about increasing the accountability and transparency of the Asset Recycling Initiative, to ensure that the projects funded through this initiative will genuinely enhance productivity.</para>
<para>Labor believes that Infrastructure Australia, an independent and expert body, is best placed to assess the contribution of new infrastructure projects to Australia's productivity. Strengthening the role of independent expert bodies to ensure good policy outcomes is a core belief of Labor, as distinct from a government that is working to dismantle independent advisory bodies such as the Climate Change Authority, the Immigration Health Advisory Group and others working on positive ageing, social inclusion, animal welfare, Indigenous leadership and a variety of other policy areas. It is vital that infrastructure decisions are made by this government with the national interest in mind, not their own political interests. We do not intend to allow the Asset Recycling Initiative to become a slush fund to allow state and territory governments to pork-barrel to marginal electorates.</para>
<para>These amendments are about taking an evidence based approach to decisions on infrastructure funding. Before the infrastructure minister makes a grant or payment to a state or territory, they must first receive an independent evaluation of the project which confirms that the project will actually have productivity gains. The requirement for the minister to approve grants via a disallowable instrument is to ensure that not only are quality decisions made on infrastructure investments but quality decisions are also made on privatisation of the assets sold to fund them.</para>
<para>Unlike those opposite, Labor is not of the view that all privatisation is necessarily good. These bills are providing the states and territories with an incentive to privatise assets, and the Commonwealth should not be rewarding them for engaging in a fire sale of assets or for selling assets without appropriate regulatory protections. The idea that privatisation is good in all circumstances is Tea Party thinking—the kind of attitude that the ideologues who have taken over the Liberal Party seem to be engaging in more and more. This is a flawed bill, but it can be improved with Labor's amendments, which I hope that the other side will agree to and which I commend to the Senate.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:08</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LUDWIG</name>
    <name.id>84N</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak on the Asset Recycling Fund Bill 2014. Australia's infrastructure is too important to be left to pork-barrelling and the whims of the political cycle, especially the whims of this government. In the committee stage, Labor will seek to pass two amendments. We will look for crossbench support, because it is about ensuring that there is transparency and openness of the process for approving infrastructure projects. All Australians would want that, to ensure that there is scrutiny of those infrastructure projects. The coalition's plan for asset recycling has three major flaws. Firstly, it does not allow for independent scrutiny of the infrastructure projects. Secondly, it distorts the state government's decisions on asset sales, promoting the ill-thought-through selling of assets for short-term gains. Thirdly, it does not guarantee any new money for investment in infrastructure.</para>
<para>Infrastructure spending under Labor rose to record levels. We went from being 20th in the OECD, in terms of spending on infrastructure as a proportion of GDP, to first, under Labor's watch. Labor lifted funding for infrastructure from about $130 for each Australian to about $220. Labor doubled the roads budget, to $46.6 billion, and upgraded 7,500 kilometres of road. But we also recognise that it is not enough just to increase funding. The money has to be spent on worthwhile infrastructure that will create not only returns for Australians but productivity increases into the future. Labor created Infrastructure Australia to research and rank proposed infrastructure projects based on their potential to add economic productivity. Infrastructure Australia introduced independent advice and the opportunity to add transparency and openness into the process for planning for infrastructure in Australia. Labor also planned for the future. The National Ports Strategy and National Land Freight Strategy meant that informed decisions could be made about infrastructure investment in the context of a broader plan for ports and freight. Infrastructure, without this sort of strategic plan, is just a recipe for expensive white elephants. This government wants to throw up plenty of those.</para>
<para>We on this side of the chamber are proud of Labor's achievement in infrastructure. Indeed, this government seems proud of Labor's achievements too. Almost all of the coalition's announced infrastructure projects are re-announcements of Labor funded projects. Take one example. Take the Bruce Highway. During Senate estimates, we learnt there was no new money. Mr Truss uses the terms 'locked in', 'confirmed', 'affirmed', 'reconfirmed' or 'recommitted', but what he really should say is simply 're-announced'. Labor invested $5.7 billion in the Bruce Highway, dwarfing the $1.3 billion spent by the previous Howard government. For all their rhetoric, under the Howard regime they did not spend on infrastructure. Labor delivered four times the funding in half the time. Labor remains committed to improving the Bruce Highway, fixing up the area that the Howard government failed to act in and this government is also ignoring.</para>
<para>The coalition has failed to follow Labor's lead in investing in important Queensland infrastructure. The Cross River Rail project is a good example of a coalition failure. Infrastructure Australia said the Cross River Rail project was a strategic priority for Australia's infrastructure, and it judged the project as passing the cost-benefit test and ready to proceed. The Liberals have pulled $700 million out of the project. It defies good decision making and shows that this government is focused on pet projects and not projects which can drive productivity or develop infrastructure from the best business case. The federal government already provided the bulk of funding for large infrastructure projects, so this needs to be protected and not raided by this government to pay for the Asset Recycling Fund. This Asset Recycling Fund must provide funds in addition to existing federal commitments. There must be new nation-building projects in road, rail and other nationally significant infrastructure, otherwise it is just recycling in truth.</para>
<para>We know we cannot trust the government on this. We have seen already the twisted priorities of the coalition government—the way they try to hide their cruel cuts to pensioners and ordinary Australians, pretending that taxes are not taxes really and that cuts to education and health are not truly cuts. They use miserable words to describe their short-sightedness, but the country cannot afford those cuts and cannot afford cuts to infrastructure. As a start, they are taking $2.4 billion from the Building Australia Fund and $3.5 billion from the Education Investment Fund for the Asset Recycling Fund. What they effectively are doing is shuffling the money out of one area into another, claiming that it is new money. It is not new money from infrastructure; it is already there.</para>
<para>On top of that, they are also taking cuts from local government which are going to hurt local infrastructure. I know in Queensland lots of local councils are going to be affected. Recently, I visited Councillor Jim Madden of Somerset Regional Council to highlight this fact because they face a stark choice: either they have to raise rates or they have to cut their budget, cut roads spending and cut infrastructure spending. What sort of choice is that? It is not only blame shifting; it is also show cost shifting coming out of a hard budget. The Abbott government has broken its promise to regional Australia. Mr Warren Truss said before the budget:</para>
<quote><para class="block">To ignore regional Australia’s need for investment and growth is to turn our backs on the opportunities for the future.</para></quote>
<para>In just two weeks, the Abbott government have savaged local government by ripping a billion in funding from local government, cutting into the financial assistance grants. Local governments rely on those grants to fund local roads and infrastructure. The government have created an Asset Recycling Fund. They want to gold plate highways but they will end up with broken roads because councils will be starved of funds to meet their obligations in investing in a road network. It is about a road network not about a gold plated highway. If it fails at the last mile, at the shopfront, at the small business or at the home, it is not a road network. These cuts will disproportionately affect rural communities, pushing some of them to the brink. These cruel cuts will mean more roads that go nowhere and bridges to nowhere as real communities suffer. These are contradictory forces at play and it is not surprising when you look at the twisted priorities the government have.</para>
<para>The decision to sell assets needs to be made by the state government after sober analysis. Liberal state governments have been seduced by the short-term incentives of the political cycle to sell assets. The additional 15 per cent proposed by the federal government does skew the incentives of the state governments and encourage sales of assets. It pushes the sale of assets in the short-term interest without looking at the longer term national interest. The federal government needs to play—and it has been absent from the field—a leading role with states the territories to encourage decisions to be made in the national interest. Although asset recycling is not without its merits, in some cases it is not always the answer. The answer for many state-owned assets is better and more transparent management. The erosion of freedom of information under this government and cuts to information-gathering organisations which make proper decision-making possible are working against these outcomes of openness and transparency.</para>
<para>This government hugs the dark. It prefers the shadows. It does not like transparency. Why? Because it does not like the truth about its decisions to be exposed. They are bad decisions by a government which wants to take cruel cuts. It takes cruel cuts to the Australian Bureau of Statistics. These are also quite concerning. This government does not want to know about that state of its books. It does not suit its ideological views. ABS cuts hurt private businesses just as much, especially small business which does not have the resources to forecast or run surveys and the lack of information means that when you remove information from the availability of the pool, where do get decision making? You end up with poor decision making without the charter and all you get is it—cash created by the federal government for the states. The government seems to be wilfully blind to this prospect. That is the kindest I could say about it. I could say it is deliberately doing it but I think ultimately it is literally blind to the consequences.</para>
<para>We have seen the forecasts and estimates for asset sales and infrastructure projects. Again, they seem to be very overly optimistic. We will get an opportunity in the Senate to hold this government to account on their forecasts. Let us not hear from those on the other side that, 'We didn't quite get that right. Our methodology was flawed. We missed some opportunity.' In this instance they own these figures. An article in the<inline font-style="italic"> Oxford Review of Economic Policy</inline> found that 50 per cent of traffic forecasts in infrastructure projects were wrong by at least 20 per cent. If we further reduce the quality of data and research, those estimates are going to get more and more difficult. We need to consider the facts of asset sales and not some ideological driven crusade by those opposite—although they do seem to like Don Quixote.</para>
<para>The Australian Competition and Consumer Commission is warning the government that it needs to be wary of asset sales. Speaking to the Committee for Economic Development of Australia conference, Rod Sims, the chair of the ACCC, warns about privatisation and the perverse incentives present for the state governments. He said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Short-term gains of maximising the up-front price received by the government is short-term gain increased and encouraged by the federal government and will have long-term costs in reduced competition and higher costs to consumers and damage to Australian businesses.</para></quote>
<para>I think the quote from Mr Sims says it all:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The ACCC is becoming aware of an increasing level of concern among businesses that are most directly affected by the sale of upstream monopoly assets to downstream competitors. The trade-off here is short-sighted and the costs in terms of productivity and investment are likely to be significant</para></quote>
<para>He also said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Privatising in ways that limit competition in order to maximise the sale proceeds is the wrong way.</para></quote>
<para>The government's rush to sell off assets without examining the long-term consequences means that we pay a high price for this asset fire sale, and businesses and ordinary consumers footing the bill will suffer. Instead of investing in infrastructure with a strong business case, the states and federal government are investing in public relations. You do not have to look far to find a good example: the Queensland government has spent $6 million on an advertising campaign instead of investing in the analysis necessary for the business case for asset recycling. Instead of showing the business case for asset sales, they are being offered websites, TV ads and glib one-liners to support why they should sell assets. This shows utter contempt for Queenslanders. If there is a business case, which includes the long-term impacts of asset sales, show it to the people, be transparent about it, demonstrate why it is necessary rather than a one-word slogan.</para>
<para>Labor is seeking, as I indicated earlier, two amendments to improve this bill and increase the transparency and openness of the process of approving infrastructure projects. The first of our amendments allows for the tabling of a disallowable instrument for each privatisation reinvestment transaction so that, if the government is not going to cast light on their projects, then the Senate can have a look at the projects. They can be properly scrutinised by parliament.</para>
<para>Second, our amendments would require projects to be assessed by Infrastructure Australia and be deemed productivity enhancing. That is what infrastructure, building for the future, is all about: making sure we have got assets that will increase our productivity now and into the future. Projects, including an estimate of the productivity gain from the project, should also be published.</para>
<para>This cost-benefit analysis must include the true cost of these sales. What are the lost revenues to government? What is the effect on competition? What is the effect on consumers? What is the effect on jobs? What is the effect for rural communities? Is the sale just short-term political expediency or is it in the nation's interest?</para>
<para>You have to ask: why is the federal government afraid of these questions? They want to hide scrutiny. They don't want these questions answered, and it leaves a huge question mark about the motives of this government when it turns to asset sales.</para>
<para>The threat to assets is most grave in Queensland. The debt and deficit falsehood set by Canberra has spread to governments like the Newman government but sometimes it gets lost in translation. The Newman government has been witless enough to take up the Abbott government's debt rhetoric at face value. They have promised that asset sales will be used to reduce debts and not to recycle assets. The combined ineptness of the Abbott and Newman governments means Queenslanders will suffer twice. Queenslanders will be paying their taxes to provide a bounty, effectively, to the ideologically driven sale of other state assets while Queensland stock of infrastructure will deteriorate and not be replaced.</para>
<para>The Toowoomba Second Range Crossing Project I have taken a very special interest in—there are many in Queensland, who live on the other side of the range, who also follow this with a passion. I hope that some of the light I have attempted to shine on this project will mean an end to the waste and prevarication from the Abbott government on this project. I am concerned that this three-year project as detailed in their own documents has been pushed out to five years. Every year's delay costs $100 million, but don't take my word for it; take Mr Truss's own figures. These accounting tricks, costs pushed out beyond the budget forward estimates, have real costs for ordinary Australians.</para>
<para>This is infrastructure on the never-never by a government that is using all the tricks in the book to try to achieve a smoke and mirrors on infrastructure.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:27</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McEWEN</name>
    <name.id>e5e</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>On behalf of Senator Xenophon, I seek leave to incorporate his speech on this bill.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:28</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator XENOPHON</name>
    <name.id>8IV</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para><inline font-style="italic">The incorporated</inline><inline font-style="italic"> speech read as follows</inline>—</para>
<quote><para class="block">I take this opportunity to express my serious concerns about the impact and long-term consequences of the privatisation of state assets.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I acknowledge the intent of this bill is to encourage states to invest in infrastructure projects by way of incentive payments from the Commonwealth upon the sale of state assets. I question whether this plan is short sighted and not in the interests of Australia's competition policy.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In June this year Mr Rod Sims, Chairman of the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission expressed concerns that competition has taken a back seat in the recent wave of state-owned asset sales.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">He pointed to the ACCC's recent rejection of AGL's application to acquire Macquarie Generation, Australia's largest electricity generator, as an example. In a media release dated 4 March 2014, Mr Sims said:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The proposed acquisition would result in the largest source of generation capacity in NSW being owned by one of the three largest retailers in NSW. Indeed, with this acquisition, the three largest retailers in NSW would own a combined share of 70 to 80 per cent of electricity generation capacity or output. This is likely to raise barriers to entry and expansion for other electricity retailers in NSW and therefore reduce competition compared to the situation if the proposed acquisition does not proceed.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Competition Tribunal approved AGL's application to acquire Macquarie Generation's assets, despite the ACCC's warnings that 'the proposed acquisition is likely to mean that consumers will ultimately pay more for electricity, receive lower quality service and be offered less choice.'</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Time will tell whether the ACCC's warnings should have been heeded. Unfortunately it will be consumers who will be the first to feel the pain if the ACCC's predictions about electricity price rises are correct.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Mr Sims has also stressed that it is vital state governments must be 'vigilant in setting up competitive structures when they privatise their assets.' The recent sales of some ports have seen the ACCC receive complaints that these ports have been privatised without appropriate open access regimes.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">As a member of the South Australian parliament in the late 1990s, I vehemently opposed the privatisation of the then Electricity Trust of South Australia (ETSA). Not only because it was a broken promise of the then Olsen government but because it was also a bad deal for consumers.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I believe the privatisation of ETSA was structured in such a way as to maximise value of the state's assets, thereby reducing a greater amount of state debt (a legacy of the former Labor State Government), but by doing so it shifted the burden onto households and businesses with dramatically higher power prices post-privatisation. I received very sound advice back in the late 1990s from Danny Price, then at London Economics, who is now Managing Director of Frontier Economics. He was vilified by the state Liberal government at the time for his modelling and predictions of power price rises with the privatisation model adopted, and sadly his predictions were uncannily accurate. I should add, the accuracy of his modelling and predictions has not changed over the years given his concerns over the carbon tax and the CPRS legislation introduced by the former government.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">If all the privatisation is doing is shifting public debt onto households and businesses then it seems to be a foolish and counterproductive exercise.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">However, in the event that this bill does pass, I would like to see it passed with material improvements and for that reason I put on notice I support the amendments proposed by the opposition in this regard.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">If taxpayer money is being used to encourage the privatisation of state assets, we have a duty to ensure the public—especially, families and small businesses—do not end up footing the bill by way of higher prices.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:28</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CORMANN</name>
    <name.id>HDA</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank all senators who have contributed to this debate, in particular, Senator Conroy, for his very constructive contribution. The Asset Recycling Fund Bill 2014 and consequential amendments establish a new fund as a vehicle for providing financial assistance and incentives to states and territories to invest in infrastructure. A new fund is necessary to support the government's asset recycling initiative, a key initiative, that will encourage the states and territories to sell existing assets and reinvest in new infrastructure that contributes to a more prosperous economy.</para>
<para>Payments from the Asset Recycling Fund will also be used to fund nation-building infrastructure and other National Partnership agreements payments to other bodies will be administered by the Department of Infrastructure and Regional Development and will support important local initiatives such as the Roads to Recovery program in the usual way.</para>
<para>Establishing a new fund to support the government's infrastructure package is sound economic policy. It allows funds being committed now to be invested so that more is available when payments become due. Entrusting the Asset Recycling Fund to the Future Fund Board of Guardians will maximise the growth of assets. The board has a proven track record in managing assets on behalf of the taxpayer. It has grown the Future Fund from around $64 billion in 2006, when the previous government invested budget surpluses into the Future Fund, to over $97 billion by the end of March—in fact, at last count, it had exceeded $100 billion.</para>
<para>The government is committed to the new fund, which will be established with $5.9 billion funded by an amount of uncommitted funds from the Education Investment Fund and the Building Australia Fund that have not been allocated to approved projects. The government will make further contributions following the successful privatisation of Medibank Private; it has also said that it is open to committing proceeds from other future asset sales. Finally, the Asset Recycling Fund is an essential element of the government's infrastructure package announced in the 2014-15 budget to support economic growth. I recommend that it be supported by the Senate.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bills read a second time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>In Committee</title>
            <page.no>5289</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:31</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CORMANN</name>
    <name.id>HDA</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I table a supplementary explanatory memorandum relating to the government amendments to be moved to the Asset Recycling Fund Bill 2014.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:31</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CONROY</name>
    <name.id>3L6</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I have a suggestion that may assist our progress. Given that the opposition is supporting all of the government's amendments, I am offering the minister the opportunity to move them together. I am not sure if the Greens have an alternative view, but I am offering that opportunity.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:31</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LUDLAM</name>
    <name.id>I07</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>In speaking on behalf of the Australian Greens, I am happy, Senator Cormann, if you want to move government amendments en bloc. The Greens will be supporting them all.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:31</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CORMANN</name>
    <name.id>HDA</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I move government amendments (1) to (20) on sheet HT101:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Clause 2, page 1 (line 9), omit "1 July 2014", substitute "the day after this Act receives the Royal Assent".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) Clause 4, page 3 (lines 30 and 31), omit "<inline font-style="italic">Financial Management and Accountability Act 1997</inline>", substitute "<inline font-style="italic">Public Governance, Performance and Accountability Act 2013</inline>".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) Clause 4, page 4 (lines 24 and 25), omit "<inline font-style="italic">Financial Management and Accountability Act 1997</inline>", substitute "<inline font-style="italic">Public Governance, Performance and Accountability Act 2013</inline>".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(4) Clause 8, page 9 (line 1), omit "appropriate", substitute "permissible".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(5) Clause 8, page 9 (line 3), omit "powers", substitute "power".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(6) Clause 12, page 11 (lines 10 to 12), omit "Special Account for the purposes of the <inline font-style="italic">Financial Management and Accountability Act 1997</inline>", substitute "special account for the purposes of the <inline font-style="italic">Public Governance, Performance and Accountability Act 2013</inline>".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(7) Clause 12, page 11 (lines 13 to 17), omit "Special Account" (wherever occurring), substitute "special account".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(8) Clause 13, page 12 (line 5), omit "On the commencement of this section", substitute "At the start of the 28th day after this section commences".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(9) Clause 13, page 12 (line 17), omit "On the commencement of this section", substitute "At the start of the 28th day after this section commences".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(10) Clause 16, page 15 (lines 16 and 17), omit the note, substitute:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Note: See section 80 of the <inline font-style="italic">Public Governance, Performance and Accountability Act 2013 </inline>(which deals with special accounts).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(11) Clause 17, page 17 (lines 13 and 14), omit the note, substitute:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   Note: See section 80 of the <inline font-style="italic">Public Governance, Performance and Accountability Act 2013 </inline>(which deals with special accounts).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(12) Clause 21, page 19 (line 22), at the end of subclause (2), add "The State or Territory must comply with any such terms and conditions.".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(13) Clause 22, page 20 (lines 2 and 3), omit "Special Account for the purposes of the <inline font-style="italic">Financial Management and Accountability Act 1997</inline>", substitute "special account for the purposes of the <inline font-style="italic">Public Governance, Performance and Accountability Act 2013</inline>".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(14) Clause 22, page 20 (lines 4 to 8), omit "Special Account" (wherever occurring), substitute "special account".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(15) Clause 23, page 20 (lines 14 and 15), omit the note, substitute:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   Note: See section 80 of the <inline font-style="italic">Public Governance, Performance and Accountability Act 2013 </inline>(which deals with special accounts).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(16) Clause 27, page 22 (line 12), at the end of subclause (2), add "The person must comply with any such terms and conditions.".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(17) Clause 28, page 22 (line 26), at the end of subclause (2), add "The person must comply with any such terms and conditions.".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(18) Clause 34, page 26 (line 23), omit "On the day that this section commences", substitute "On the 28th day after this section commences".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(19) Clause 34, page 27 (line 14), omit "On the day that this section commences", substitute "On the 28th day after this section commences".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(20) Clause 35, page 28 (lines 17 and 18), omit "Section 39 of the <inline font-style="italic">Financial Management and Accountability Act 1997</inline>", substitute "Section 58 of the <inline font-style="italic">Public Governance, Performance and Accountability Act 2013</inline> (which deals with investment by the Commonwealth)".</para></quote>
<para>We also appose clause 47 in the following terms:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(21) Clause 47, page 36 (lines 26 to 28), to be opposed.</para></quote>
<para>The Asset Recycling Fund Bill 2014 and the Asset Recycling Fund (Consequential Amendments) Bill 2014 establish a new fund as a vehicle for providing financial assistance and incentives to states and territories to invest in infrastructure. The new fund is necessary, as I have just said in my summing up speech, to support the government's asset recycling initiatives. The amendments being introduced by the government are primarily a necessary consequence of delays to the passage of the bill through parliament. Amendment (1) revises the commencement date from 1 July 2014 to the day after the bill receives royal assent. This will ensure that the parliament does not pass legislation that has retrospective effect.</para>
<para>Amendments (2), (3), (6), (7), (10), (11), (13) to (15), (20) and (21) are minor amendments taking into account that the Public Governance, Performance and Accountability Act 2013 took effect on 1 July. Amendments (4) and (5) clarify the Commonwealth can only make payments where it is permissible to do so under its executive power. These amendments provide clarity on what the government has the power to do under the Constitution. They ensure that this government and future governments cannot do anything under the bill that is inconsistent with this power. Amendments (8), (9), (18) and (19) ensure the Future Fund board of guardians has sufficient time to transfer $5.9 billion of uncommitted balances from the Education Investment Fund and the Building Australia Fund to the Asset Recycling Fund. Amendments (12), (16) and (17) ensure that the recipients of incentives and contributions towards large-scale infrastructure, including states and territories, are bound by the terms and conditions of the agreements under which funding is provided. The amendments strengthen accountability requirements that provide taxpayers with further confidence that funding is used for purposes allowed under the proposed legislation.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:33</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CONROY</name>
    <name.id>3L6</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Labor do not oppose these amendments. These amendments are just dates of effect, correcting new legislation and make miscellaneous minor amendments to the bill. Once again, we note the government is being forced to amend its own bill.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:33</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LUDLAM</name>
    <name.id>I07</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>There is always a sting in the tail, isn't there? If the bill had been properly drafted in the first place, we would not be here. Nonetheless, as far as the Australian Greens are concerned, while opposing the entire intent of the bill and the thinking that underlies it, these amendments are technical and largely administrative in nature. I think Senator Cormann has reflected accurately their intent and the Greens will not be opposing them.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN</name>
    <name.id>241710</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Before putting the question, I advise that amendments (1) to (20) will be put and then amendment (21) will need to be put separately. The question is that amendments (1) to (20) moved by Senator Cormann be agreed.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN: The question now is that amendment (21) moved by Senator Cormann be dealt with. The question is that clause 47 stand as printed.</para>
<para>Question negatived.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:35</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator KIM CARR</name>
    <name.id>AW5</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I move opposition amendments (1) to (5) and (14) to (16) on sheet 7486:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Clause 4, page 4 (lines 16 to 18), omit the definition of Education Investment Fund.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) Clause 4, page 4 (lines 19 to 21), omit the definition of <inline font-style="italic">Education Investment Fund Special Account</inline>.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) Heading to subclause 13(1), page 12 (line 4), omit the heading.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(4) Clause 13, page 12 (line 5), omit "(1)".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(5) Clause 13, page 12 (line 14), omit "subsection 34(1)", substitute "section 34".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(14) Heading to subclause 34(1), page 26 (line 19), omit the heading.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(15) Clause 34, page 26 (line 21), omit "subsection 13(1)", substitute "section 13".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(16) Clause 34, page 26 (line 26), omit "subsection 13(1)", substitute "section 13".</para></quote>
<para>We also oppose clauses 13 and 34 in the following terms:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(6) Clause 13, page 12 (lines 16 to 28), subclause (2), to be opposed.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(17) Clause 34, page 27 (lines 10 to 31), subclauses (4) to (6), to be opposed.</para></quote>
<para>The focus of my remarks is around the issue of the somewhat ill-advised proposal to abolish the Education Investment Fund. I find it an extraordinary proposition that the government is seeking to do this, given the claims about the Prime Minister's obsession with infrastructure. We would all surely agree that infrastructure is critical to securing the future of the nation, but I would have thought that infrastructure would also include investments in our science and research and at our teaching facilities at our universities, at the CSIRO and TAFE colleges.</para>
<para>This proposition goes to the very heart of that. These institutions, of course, are where we find the new technologies that we need to ensure that we are able to generate the economic and social benefits not just now but well into the future. That depends upon the capacity of the Commonwealth to invest. The abolition of this fund would prevent that. I am very surprised that the government should try to slip this through as being part of the arrangements for this bill. Upon reflection, I can nonetheless understand, given the government's deep antipathy to higher education. It is in that context, I suppose, that it fits with the government's mentality when it comes to the removal of the Education Investment Fund. It is another broken promise. This is exactly the opposite to what the Liberal Party said during the last election. Senator Mason was quoted in <inline font-style="italic">The Australian</inline> newspaper before the election as saying:</para>
<quote><para class="block">We would seek to reinvest and rebuild EIF back to its former state wants the budget is back in surplus. This is a nation-building fund and the coalition intends to restore it as such.</para></quote>
<para>Of course, this could be nothing further from the truth in terms of what has actually happened with the proposal contained in this bill. I would have thought that we would have heard more from the Liberal Party itself about this act of blatant vandalism towards the higher education system in this country. I have enormous regard for Senator Mason. I think it is a great tragedy that he is not engaged in the higher education sector in this government. Of course, the obvious point that is so often made in political comedy or farce is that as soon as you actually know something about a particular field it is not surprising that governments seek to move politicians out of that field. Senator Mason certainly fits that category.</para>
<para>The opposition amendments provide the opportunity for this chamber to reconsider this very, very rash decision. The amendments would save the Education Investment Fund. Our amendments do so because the Education Investment Fund provides the funding for the very projects that we need to develop the infrastructure in higher education research and vocational education. If the government succeeds in abolishing the fund, serious questions must be raised about its long-term commitment to investment in these areas. It is clear that the Asset Recycling Fund will not be available for investments in those areas. Is a perverse outcome, because 59 per cent of the funding for the Asset Recycling Fund comes from education. What an extraordinary proposition: research infrastructure which is so vital to the future economic and social health of this nation is being used to fund privatisation of assets.</para>
<para>I note the Australian Technology Network, the group that involves a number of very respected institutions—QUT; RMIT University, in my home state of Victoria; the University of Technology, Sydney; the University of South Australia; Curtin University—has raised concerns. In their submission to the Senate inquiry into the bills they state:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The ATN is concerned about the continuation of research infrastructure funding from 2015 and the lack of guidance in the Bill as to how future research related infrastructure projects will be prioritised for funding via the ARF.</para></quote>
<para>The Australian Technology Network of universities went on to say that the coalition election policy stated that the coalition was in the business of:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… building a world-class Education and Research sector</para></quote>
<para>This bill could be nothing further from that. It notes the statement in which the coalition government pledged that it would:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… encourage modernisation and the development of world-class Education and Research capabilities and support the use of new technologies, particularly digital and IT.</para></quote>
<para>This bill could be nothing further from that. This government attacking the agencies that could deliver on such an election commitment, such as Australian universities, CSIRO, and NICTA. This is exactly the sort of thing I suppose we could relate back to what the Prime Minister said when he said that we 'should judge him on his performance'. His performance in this matter is abysmal. The ATN also noted:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The provision of modern research capabilities comes at a cost. To date 71 infrastructure projects have been funded by EIF to the sum of $2.4 billion. This included $643m in funding for pure research infrastructure …</para></quote>
<para>The ATN submission also raise concerns about the removal of the remaining research funding mechanisms:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Therefore following the removal of EIF the remaining research funding mechanisms, including research block grant funding, are not sufficient to create world class research infrastructure.</para></quote>
<para>It strikes me that this is a pretty fair point. You take this money away and what are we going to use to fund the necessary research infrastructure in this country? How are we going to be able to fund the work that CSIRO does in terms of research infrastructure, the work of the universities, the work of the other science agencies?</para>
<para>I might emphasise that I have got a bit of an interest in this matter, because when I was the minister the fund operation placed particular importance on proper administration by an independent board. It was not a pork-barrelling exercise, as we have seen with this government in its attempt to use Australian Research Council funding. It was not done in any way other than on a competitive basis—on the basis of an evaluation of projects under very rigorous criteria. There were over four funding rounds and 71 projects were supported. They were projects on university campuses, TAFE campuses—projects supporting major scientific infrastructure. They were projects like these: the Science and Engineering Precinct in Ballarat, now at the Federation University; the Science Place for northern Queensland at James Cook University; the Indian Ocean Marine Research Centre at the University of Western Australia; the University of Tasmania Institute for Marine and Antarctic Studies; the University of Adelaide's Institute for Photonics and Advanced Sensing; the Latrobe Rural Health School in Bendigo; the University of Western Sydney Centre for Climate Change and Energy Research.</para>
<para>I note that on Tuesday—and this is a particular irony—the Minister for Industry was at Mount Stromlo launching another project that was funded through this fund. The project is, of course, the Advanced Instrumentation and Technology Centre. And I will seek leave to table the minister's press statement from Tuesday because it will highlight the sorts of infrastructure projects that are funded by this government which, of course—I must say that the minister was at least gracious enough to acknowledge that the funding had actually been provided by a Labor government.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Conroy</name>
    <name.id>3L6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>By you.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator KIM CARR</name>
    <name.id>AW5</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I won't be so crass, Senator!</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Conroy</name>
    <name.id>3L6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>That is a first!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator KIM CARR</name>
    <name.id>AW5</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>But I will suggest that it is quite unusual for this government to acknowledge the work that we did in regard to the provision of basic infrastructure and, particularly, in regard to the importance of the universities and scientific agencies. I quote from the media release:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Australian scientists have snared two world-leading contracts to make astronomical instruments which will further consolidate Australia’s reputation for global innovation, Minister for Industry Ian Macfarlane said today. The Australian National University’s Advanced Instrumentation and Technology Centre at Mount Stromlo has been contracted to design one of the first instruments for the Giant Magellan Telescope (GMT), a super-giant earth-based telescope being built in Chile that is set to revolutionise our view and understanding of the universe.</para></quote>
<para>I understand the minister is happy for me to table that press release.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN</name>
    <name.id>241710</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Is leave granted for Senator Carr?</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator KIM CARR</name>
    <name.id>AW5</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I do that because it might help the minister understand the importance of these issues of which his colleagues obviously do appreciate. But it has not sunk in. This very principle of the importance of universities in Australia winning major contracts and providing the central thrust for our science and research effort in this country has just not registered. At the same time, of course, this is a government that the very next day seeks to debate in this chamber a proposal to abolish the fund that actually ensures that these sorts of projects go ahead.</para>
<para>Of course, it is not just the universities that will suffer. The Education Investment Fund has been a great benefit to the CSIRO. That may well be a problem for this government given the hostility this government has shown to the CSIRO. It may well be that this is yet another one of its cunning plans to do great damage to our scientific infrastructure. It was the fund that we used to actually provide the new deep-sea research vessel, the <inline font-style="italic">Southern Surveyor</inline>. Without EIF, this nation would be left without the capacity to carry out our marine and ocean research—our blue-water research capacity.</para>
<para>The minister has appointed a working party to look at this. There have simply been no answers to the way in which we can ensure future funding arrangements, unless there is provision made—you actually have to do something and not just have good intentions or just make an assertion that you are interested when all of the evidence and all of the facts point to exactly the opposite.</para>
<para>The last budget that this government brought down highlighted its intentions. It was where it put its actions on the line rather than its statements. We saw during the election campaign that commitments were being made which are clearly being breached. This is yet another example of the way in which commitments that this country so desperately needs—to ensure that our universities are able to sustain their capabilities and to ensure that our universities are not placed in the position that they cannot provide the capabilities that we need to ensure the prosperity for this country—are being breached.</para>
<para>I know that the real opportunity for the government here is to allow this bill to go through in its full, which will in turn lead to the universities having to undertake even more drastic actions in regard to the privatisation of their efforts. The consequences are simple: this is a country that will be poorer as a result of this government's policy positions. That is why it is so critical for us in this Senate to weigh up carefully what is being said to us by this government, to reject the proposals that the government is making and to support the amendments. Because, without systematic and sustained funding in our research infrastructure, this nation will not be able to prosper and Australia will not be able to attract the very best and very brightest in the world. That is what we are doing with the investments that we are making in terms of our long-term commitment to research into commercialisation of research.</para>
<para>The abolition of the Education Investment Fund is an ill-considered decision by a government that does not understand the consequences of treating the research community in this way. You simply cannot treat the research community in a way of just turning on and off the tap of government support. That is why these amendments are being moved. This government's proposal is a demonstration of a wilful neglect to the fundamental principle of being able to provide this country with the necessity of ensuring that our universities, our scientific agencies and our TAFE colleges have the funding support they need to be able to provide the basic infrastructure they need to be able to ensure that this country is able to maintain its prosperity. I urge all senators to support these amendments.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:51</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LEYONHJELM</name>
    <name.id>111206</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr Temporary Chairman, I made an error before—I was not seeking a separate vote on the particular items that have been moved here. I do want it recorded that the intention of items (1) to (6) and (14) to (17) on sheet 7486 is to prevent the government from transferring $3.5 billion from the Education Investment Fund into the Asset Recycling Fund. I believe that this should be opposed. I intend to oppose it. The purpose of the amendments is essentially to restrict the amount of funds available to promote privatisation and to place limits on the types of infrastructure that the Commonwealth is promoting. I intend to vote against this. I will, however, vote in favour of another section of Senator Conroy's amendments, subject to it being amended by my amendment.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:52</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LUDLAM</name>
    <name.id>I07</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I will provide some comments on behalf of the Australian Greens. We support the Labor amendments that Senator Conroy foreshadowed and Senator Carr has just spoken to. The idea that the Australian government would effectively sneak through the abolition of a $3½ billion education and research fund for university and research infrastructure projects beggars belief. To bring it forward under the rubric of 'privatise everything' and at the stroke of the pen knock over $3½ billion worth of university and research infrastructure work is extraordinary.</para>
<para>The EIF is one of three nation-building funds, along with the Building Australia Fund and the Health and Hospitals Fund. It was established to build a modern, productive and internationally competitive Australian economy by supporting world-leading, strategically focused, infrastructure investments that will transform Australian tertiary education and research. What part of that statement is offensive to the Liberals and the Nationals? How could you conceivably come in here and gut funding for something that had that as its intention? How can you then front press conferences day after day talking about innovation, economic growth and strength and staying at the forefront? What century is it that you are try to keep us in?</para>
<para>As a result of the Commission of Audit on the future use of nation-building funds—and I guess without too much surprise: you commission these reports and they will give you what you expect in large part—the government announced that the EIF would be axed, that no further funding rounds would be held and existing projects would continue to be funded, but basically it turned off the funding tap for such an important fund.</para>
<para>One of the reasons that the Greens are strongly in support of the amendments and strongly defend the EIF is the kinds of projects and work it has been funding. When you look at those you realise exactly why it is that the coalition loathes it so much. The EIF supports clean energy research infrastructure. It provided $4 million to the University of Queensland to build research infrastructure to support the AGL Energy Photovoltaic Solar Flagship. There we go! That starts to give us a bit of an idea of why the coalition might hate it. It has the words 'energy efficiency' in it, it has the word 'solar' in it, therefore wipe it out. The EIF regional priorities round funded 10 projects, including Creative Futures Tasmania and advanced design and engineering training in Victoria. Round 3 included the EIF sustainability around. Oh, another word that the coalition cannot abide! Anything with the word 'sustainability' in it is being abolished as well. Nineteen projects were approved for funding across tertiary education and research sectors, including the advanced manufacturing centre at Swinburne University and the Indian Ocean Marine research Centre at the University of Western Australia. Why would we need people to be researching oceanography? Get rid of that. Central Tech Green Skills Training Centre at Central TAFE in WA? Yes, absolutely—the word 'green' is in that one. The University of Wollongong's Retrofitting for Resilient and Sustainable Buildings? Obviously that is the kind of thing that the Liberal and National parties hate. The Greens strongly support these Labor amendments and commend them to the chamber.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:55</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CORMANN</name>
    <name.id>HDA</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>On behalf of the government I indicate to the chamber that we will not be supporting these amendments. These amendments seek to prevent the government from transferring, as Senator Leyonhjelm indicated, $3.5 billion in uncommitted funds from the Education Investment Fund to the Asset Recycling Fund. Without the proposed transfer from the Education Investment Fund, the Asset Recycling Fund will not be viable for the purposes for which it is being established. The proposed transfer, as I have indicated, relates only to uncommitted funds in the Education Investment Fund—that is, amounts for which no projects have been either approved or identified. The government will meet commitments to projects already previously approved for funding from the Education Investment Fund, including those approved by the previous government. These projects will not be affected by the transfer of uncommitted amounts to the Asset Recycling Fund.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN</name>
    <name.id>241710</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that amendments (1) to (5) and (14) to (16) be agreed to.</para>
<para> </para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Committee divided. [14:01]<br />(The Chairman—Senator Marshall)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>35</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Bilyk, CL (teller)</name>
                  <name>Bullock, J.W.</name>
                  <name>Cameron, DN</name>
                  <name>Carr, KJ</name>
                  <name>Collins, JMA</name>
                  <name>Conroy, SM</name>
                  <name>Dastyari, S</name>
                  <name>Di Natale, R</name>
                  <name>Faulkner, J</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                  <name>Ketter, CR</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J</name>
                  <name>Lazarus, GP</name>
                  <name>Ludlam, S</name>
                  <name>Ludwig, JW</name>
                  <name>Lundy, KA</name>
                  <name>Marshall, GM</name>
                  <name>McEwen, A</name>
                  <name>McLucas, J</name>
                  <name>Milne, C</name>
                  <name>Moore, CM</name>
                  <name>Muir, R</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, DM</name>
                  <name>Peris, N</name>
                  <name>Polley, H</name>
                  <name>Rhiannon, L</name>
                  <name>Rice, J</name>
                  <name>Siewert, R</name>
                  <name>Singh, LM</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, AE</name>
                  <name>Wang, Z</name>
                  <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                  <name>Wright, PL</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>32</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Abetz, E</name>
                  <name>Back, CJ</name>
                  <name>Birmingham, SJ</name>
                  <name>Brandis, GH</name>
                  <name>Bushby, DC</name>
                  <name>Canavan, M.J.</name>
                  <name>Cash, MC</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                  <name>Cormann, M</name>
                  <name>Day, R.J.</name>
                  <name>Edwards, S</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, DJ</name>
                  <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                  <name>Fifield, MP</name>
                  <name>Heffernan, W</name>
                  <name>Johnston, D</name>
                  <name>Leyonhjelm, DE</name>
                  <name>Macdonald, ID</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                  <name>Nash, F</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, B (teller)</name>
                  <name>Parry, S</name>
                  <name>Payne, MA</name>
                  <name>Reynolds, L</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A</name>
                  <name>Ryan, SM</name>
                  <name>Scullion, NG</name>
                  <name>Seselja, Z</name>
                  <name>Sinodinos, A</name>
                  <name>Smith, D</name>
                  <name>Williams, JR</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names></names>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to.<br />Progress reported.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division></subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>STATEMENT BY THE PRESIDENT</title>
        <page.no>5298</page.no>
        <type>STATEMENT BY THE PRESIDENT</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Clerk of the Senate</title>
          <page.no>5298</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:05</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Honourable senators, there have been numerous media reports and commentary on the role of the Clerk and officers of the Department of the Senate in recent days. In consultation with the Clerk we have particularly chosen not to enter the debate for a variety of reasons. As this is the last opportunity prior to the Senate rising for the recess where all senators are present, I consider it important to state the following. I have full confidence in the Clerk of the Senate and her officers. All Senate staff serve the Senate in an entirely professional and impartial way and I reject any claims to the contrary.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:08</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ABETZ</name>
    <name.id>N26</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a 30-second statement.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Leave is granted.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ABETZ</name>
    <name.id>N26</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I repeat on the record, and formally, what I said to the Clerk informally this morning. Government senators have full confidence in the professionalism of the Clerk and her staff, and are immensely appreciative of their service to us.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:06</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a short statement.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Leave is granted.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I, too, wish to endorse, on behalf of all opposition senators, your comments and the comments of the Leader of the Government in the Senate. As I have said publicly, and I will state again, the Clerk of the Senate, Dr Laing, and her colleagues—and, in fact, all her predecessors—have served this chamber with professionalism, integrity and impartiality, and they do Australia a great service in the work they do.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:07</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator MILNE</name>
    <name.id>ka5</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—Mr President, I join with the remarks that you have made and I endorse the remarks that Senator Abetz and Senator Wong have just made. Firstly, I want to express my thanks on behalf of the Australian Greens to Dr Laing and her staff, and all the Senate staff, for the way in which they support us in the job that we do. We have found them to be professional, impartial and helpful. They go out of their way to be of assistance, and I want to express our full confidence.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:08</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator MADIGAN</name>
    <name.id>217571</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I wish to concur with the words that have been spoken. I believe the vast majority in this place will concur with these words: their impartiality, their professionalism and their integrity is unquestioned.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:08</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LEYONHJELM</name>
    <name.id>111206</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—Mr President, on behalf of Senator Day and myself, we endorse your comments regarding the Clerk of the Senate. We have found the Senate staff to be delightful to work with. The class of 2013 would be even bigger bumbling fools than we are but for the Clerk and her staff.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE</title>
        <page.no>5299</page.no>
        <type>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Budget</title>
          <page.no>5299</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:08</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McEWEN</name>
    <name.id>e5e</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Minister for Health, Senator Nash. I refer to correspondence from Dr Fergus Whitehead, the chief executive officer of Adelaide Pathology Partners laboratory, on the $7 GP tax. Is Dr Whitehead correct when he says that the imposition of a $7 GP tax will result in added costs for pathology laboratories, given additional staff will be required to collect the tax in collection centres? Can the minister confirm that pathology laboratories will be required to send additional $7 accounts to patients?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:09</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator NASH</name>
    <name.id>e5g</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>No, I cannot confirm that statement, because we will not be aware which clinicians will be charging a co-payment until the scheme starts. This government has been very clear in making sure that the Australian people know exactly why the changes to the budget took place. The changes to the budget took place because of the previous government's economic mismanagement. The budget mess that they left us meant that we had to make some tough decisions in the budget. It was under the previous finance minister that we saw net debt treble from $42 billion to $153 billion. Perhaps if the previous finance—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Pause the clock. Senator Moore, a point of order.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Moore</name>
    <name.id>00AOQ</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Mr President. My point of order, surprisingly, is on direct relevance. The specific question is about the cost of the additional $7 GP tax to pathology laboratories and the requirement to send additional $7 accounts to patients. I would ask you to draw that to the attention of the minister.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator Moore. The minister has just over one minute left to answer the question. I draw the minister's attention to the question.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator NASH</name>
    <name.id>e5g</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you very much, Mr President. I answered it directly. I said I could not confirm it. We did not know what the processes would be; therefore, we would not know what the costs would be to the pathology labs. I was very clear. I was also very clear in stating to the chamber exactly why the budget contained tough decisions. It was because—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Pause the clock.</para>
<para>Honourable senators interjecting—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I will not call Senator Moore until there is silence. Senator Moore, a point of order.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Moore</name>
    <name.id>00AOQ</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr President, there were two parts to the question. The second part is about the additional $7 accounts being sent to patients. The minister has not addressed that part of the question at all.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The minister can address the question, and she has indicated in her previous response to a point of order that she did address the question. The minister can get to the second part of the question in her own time.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator NASH</name>
    <name.id>e5g</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Mr President. And, indeed, I answered it. We will not be able to determine what costs will be passed on until we determine whether or not a co-payment will be charged. It is very clear. I was indicating to the chamber that if it had not been for things like, under the previous finance minister, spending $34 million buying water from Tandou Station, which was supplementary water that actually does not exist except in a flood—it was the previous government's mismanagement that led to a tough budget.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:12</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McEWEN</name>
    <name.id>e5e</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr President, I ask a supplementary question. I refer again to the $7 GP tax and comments by Dr Whitehead, who says, 'The introduction of a co-payment for bulk-billed pathology services, which is the majority of our revenue, may mean the end of our business and the loss of 300 jobs in South Australia.' Will the introduction of a $7 GP tax cut services and cost jobs, Minister?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:13</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator NASH</name>
    <name.id>e5g</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>In answer to the question, the fellow is entitled to his views—Dr Whitehead is entitled to his views. We have been very clear: there have been some changes to the budget when it comes to health. There has been a requirement for a co-payment—indeed, supported by the shadow Assistant Treasurer and initially supported by the previous leader of the Labor Party and previous Prime Minister Bob Hawke. So we have been very clear. We have made these decisions because it is this government that is going to ensure a sustainable health system. When we are looking at potentially spending $34 billion on the MBS, this government is the one that recognises that we need to make the responsible decisions to have a sustainable health system.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:14</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McEWEN</name>
    <name.id>e5e</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr President, I ask a further supplementary question. Minister, given that Adelaide Pathology Partners is also responsible for the majority of cancer diagnoses in South Australia, won't the imposition of a $7 GP tax erode the quality of health care for South Australians as well as threaten 300 South Australian jobs?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:14</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator NASH</name>
    <name.id>e5g</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>It would be useful if those opposite did not run to scare campaigns. Indeed, it was the previous Prime Minister, Bob Hawke, and I will just quote—</para>
<para>Opposition senators interjecting—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! Pause the clock. Minister Nash you have the call.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator NASH</name>
    <name.id>e5g</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I quote from the previous Prime Minister:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Is anyone seriously suggesting that, in the circumstance you're talking about, where there is the possibility of breast cancer, that is going to stop them going to the doctor? I mean, that is emotionalism being played at the lowest level.</para></quote>
<para>That is what we have seen from those opposite. This government has been very clear. The best thing we can do for this nation is ensure a sustainable health system into the future. That is what we are going to do, because it is this government that recognises the responsible decisions have to be made to ensure that sustainable health system.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DISTINGUISHED VISITORS</title>
        <page.no>5300</page.no>
        <type>DISTINGUISHED VISITORS</type>
      </debateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:15</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! I draw the attention of honourable senators to the presence in the chamber of the President of the New South Wales Legislative Council, the Hon. Don Harwin, MLC. On behalf of all honourable senators, I wish you a warm welcome to the Senate. With the concurrence of honourable senators, I invite President Harwin to take a seat on the floor of the Senate.</para>
<para>Honourable senators: Hear, hear!</para>
<para> <inline font-style="italic">Mr</inline> <inline font-style="italic"> Harwin was seated accordingly</inline> <inline font-style="italic">.</inline></para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I trust that senators will be suitably behaved during this time.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE</title>
        <page.no>5301</page.no>
        <type>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Budget</title>
          <page.no>5301</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:16</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CANAVAN</name>
    <name.id>245212</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Leader of the Government in the Senate, Senator Abetz. Can the minister advise the Senate of the size and scope of Australia's budget problems?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:16</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ABETZ</name>
    <name.id>N26</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Can I congratulate Senator Canavan on his question and acknowledge his strong—</para>
<para class="italic">Senator Kim Carr interjecting—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! Pause the clock. Senator Carr!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ABETZ</name>
    <name.id>N26</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Let us just cut to the chase. Labor is in deficit and debt denial. They know there is a budget problem. Do you know why they know there is a budget problem? It is because they created it. When they came to office in 2007, the budget was $20 billion in surplus and Australia had $50,000 million in the bank. In just six years Labor destroyed that golden legacy. They did it by spending more than they earned, wasting billions on pink batts and overpriced school halls. The Labor Party seems to have no appreciation of how much $1 billion is. Let me put it this way: a million seconds is about 11 days; a billion seconds is more than 31 years. A billion is a very big number indeed. Labor left behind projected deficits of $123 billion and projected debts of $667 billion. Let me tell you, if you converted that into seconds, it would be more than 21,000 years. The Labor Party might laugh about this but it is no joke. Government debt means higher pressure on the cost of living. Government debt means fewer jobs. Government debt means less money for services that the Australian people need. Debt means every single Australian suffers and that is why we as a government are seeking to reverse the position to ensure that there is a secure and sustainable future for our fellow Australians.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:18</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CANAVAN</name>
    <name.id>245212</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr President, I ask a supplementary question. Is the minister aware of any statements by key Labor Party figures that Australia needs to repair its budget?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:19</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ABETZ</name>
    <name.id>N26</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>As it happens, Senator Canavan, yes, I am aware of some of those statements. For example, 'Wayne Swan told me that the fiscal situation is ruinous.' Those were the words spoken by former Labor Minister Bob Carr, a fellow that used to sit in this chamber until very recently.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Conroy</name>
    <name.id>3L6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>That is the best you've got?</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ABETZ</name>
    <name.id>N26</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Conroy interjects that that is the best I've got. If 'ruinous' is not bad enough, Shadow Treasurer Chris Bowen said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">I certainly agree that there are long-term structural issues in the budget, absolutely.</para></quote>
<para>That was only yesterday. Recognising the problems, what are they prepared to do about it? Do you know what they prepared to do about these structural problems that they now recognise? It is to vote down every savings measure that they recommended in their last budget. That is the height of the irresponsibility of Labor under Mr Shorten— <inline font-style="italic">(T</inline><inline font-style="italic">ime expired).</inline></para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:20</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CANAVAN</name>
    <name.id>245212</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr President, I ask a further supplementary question. Will the minister confirm that it is the government's position that repairing the budget is both essential and urgent?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:20</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ABETZ</name>
    <name.id>N26</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para> (—) (): I can confirm to Senator Canavan and the Australian people that the task of fixing the budget is both essential and urgent. I say to the Senate that Australia does have a budget situation that needs to be fixed. If it is not fixed, we will end up like much of Europe—sliding into genteel poverty and regretting that we did not act when it was easier to do so. We know that it is not easy now, but we know that it is essential and it will be a lot harder in the future. The Senate has a choice. Each individual senator has a choice. You can either be part of the problem or part of the solution. You can either be a fiscal destroyer or a fiscal repairer. We can either build a better future for our fellow Australians or continue down the destructive path left us by Labor. <inline font-style="italic">(T</inline><inline font-style="italic">ime expired).</inline></para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Employment</title>
          <page.no>5302</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:21</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator URQUHART</name>
    <name.id>231199</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister for Employment, Senator Abetz. In the past fortnight, it has been announced that two mines have closed on the west coast of Tasmania. Two hundred jobs were gone overnight with 150 jobs to go next year. Why is it that the junior Assistant Minister for Employment, earlier this month, announced a $500,000 jobs initiative for Geelong and reinstated its local employment coordinator, but the senior Tasmanian Minister for Employment cannot do the same for the north-west coast and the west coast of Tasmania?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:22</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ABETZ</name>
    <name.id>N26</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Unlike the honourable senator, I will not engage in crass politics—</para>
<para>Opposition senators interjecting—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order on my left!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ABETZ</name>
    <name.id>N26</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>on the back of the loss of 200 jobs on the west coast of Tasmania. If the honourable senator was genuinely concerned about the mining industry and jobs in the mining industry, she would have ensured the demise of the carbon tax a lot earlier than today.</para>
<para>Mr President, as you well know, coming from that region yourself, the state government quite rightly has developed a task force to look into the best possible way to deal with the situation on the west coast. We can undertake the Labor method. The Labor method is: see a problem, throw a bucket of money over it and walk away without any responsibility, and simply say—</para>
<para class="italic">Senator Ian Macdonald interjecting—</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ABETZ</name>
    <name.id>N26</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>You are right, Senator Macdonald: borrow the money to throw over the problem, and then walk away and somehow say, 'We've lived up to our moral obligation.'</para>
<para>We as a government will take a very considered approach as to how best to help the west coast community of our home state. In relation to the workers: as I understand, a lot of them, in fact, live in Burnie and the north-west coast, driving in and out. There are also many workers that live in Queenstown, but they do have—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Pause the clock.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Moore</name>
    <name.id>00AOQ</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr President, I rise on a point of order. I thought that, with that time, the minister might have got to my question, but he didn't. So my point of order is on direct relevance. The question was specifically about the extra money and the LEC—the local employment coordinator—position. The senator asked particularly whether that particular process could be put in place, and the minister has not referred to that.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The minister was also asked about his involvement in the issue, and the minister has been answering the question.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ABETZ</name>
    <name.id>N26</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The situation on the west coast was clearly referred to, with the loss of the 200 jobs, and I was addressing—</para>
<para class="italic">Senator Wong interjecting—</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ABETZ</name>
    <name.id>N26</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>how we, as a coordinated force between the government in Hobart and the government in Canberra were going to address the situation.</para>
<para class="italic">Senator Wong interjecting—</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ABETZ</name>
    <name.id>N26</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Wong continues with her relentless interjections, yet had the audacity this morning to seek to raise a point of order against one of my colleagues. The duplicity of this— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:24</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator URQUHART</name>
    <name.id>231199</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr President, I ask a supplementary question. I refer to the government's inadequate response to these job losses. In the minister's joint press release with the Liberal member for Braddon, Mr Brett Whiteley, they simply recommend that workers contact Centrelink. Given that the workers at Mount Lyell have been off work on half-pay for around six months, is 'contact Centrelink' the best that the employment minister and Mr Whiteley can do?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:25</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ABETZ</name>
    <name.id>N26</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Can I say to the honourable senator: it is very bad form to quote your own media release that had that falsehood in it, claiming that the excellent member for Braddon had only suggested that people should be contacting Centrelink. The member for Braddon did a lot more, is doing a lot more, and has put to shame the pathetic efforts of the Labor Party who think that by issuing a media release they can just somehow overcome the situation—a media release which, might I add, suggested throwing, I think, $20 million at the situation, with projects that had not been through due diligence, projects that had not been considered as to their value for money—and, indeed, wanted to steal money from Peter to pay Paul that would have cost other Tasmanian jobs. The height of— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:26</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator URQUHART</name>
    <name.id>231199</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr President, I ask a further supplementary question. The Liberal member for Braddon has also said that the Premier should raise west coast employment at the Prime Minister's joint Commonwealth and Tasmanian council. Minister, what immediate support will the Prime Minister's council deliver to these west coast workers?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:26</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ABETZ</name>
    <name.id>N26</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr President, the council is about to meet later this month, and I am not going to pre-empt what the council might determine, because we actually want this council not to be the sort of ventriloquist doll of the government, like the Labor Party used to set up their task forces. We actually want this task force to talk to us, to tell us what the best way forward is for the Tasmanian economy. I can understand that Senator Urquhart believes that that is the way you do business. The people of Australia, and, in particular, Tasmania, voted for a change of government because they wanted a different style of government: a government that listened to the people, to get rid of the carbon tax, to get rid of the mining tax, to destroy that ridiculous forestry agreement—all those things that you, Senator Urquhart, championed, and the people of Tasmania rejected by electing Brett Whitely to the seat of Braddon. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Asylum Seekers</title>
          <page.no>5304</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:27</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON-YOUNG</name>
    <name.id>I0U</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the minister representing the immigration minister, Senator Cash. Considering that the Abbott government is currently holding 153 asylum seekers, including dozens of children, against their will at a secret location in the Indian Ocean, will the government answer a simple question about the welfare of those on board: how many nappies, Minister, if any, and what clean clothes have been taken to the vessel for the children detained?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:28</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CASH</name>
    <name.id>I0M</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>As I have stated previously, the matter is currently before the High Court, and, accordingly, it would not be appropriate to comment any further on the matter. I can, however, reiterate the words of the minister, who has stated that any person who is in the care and protection of the Australian Customs and Border Protection Service will be in good care, and they are in good care.</para>
<para>I would also make this point, however: as Senator Hanson-Young raises the issue of the children, I will just remind the senator and those opposite that, in 2007, when the Howard government lost office, there were four people in immigration detention who had arrived by boat, and not one of them was a child. The reason that we are in this situation today is due solely, completely and utterly to the fault of those on the other side who were so actively encouraged, on a minute-by-minute basis, by the Australian Greens, led, of course, by Senator Hanson-Young, who, it is unfortunate, sometimes does believe that immigration policy is formed on the basis of an episode of <inline font-style="italic">Sea Patrol</inline>. Senator Hanson-Young, I can assure you: it is far more serious than that—in particular, when the policies you supported contributed directly to in excess of 1,200 innocent men, women and children dying at sea. They are the policies you support; they are not the policies that those on this side support.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:30</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON-YOUNG</name>
    <name.id>I0U</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr President, I ask a supplementary question. According to the Australian Customs and Border Protection Service, the ACV <inline font-style="italic">Ocean Protector</inline> has austere accommodation for up to 120 potential transportees. Considering the capacity of the largest Customs vessel falls short of the number of refugees or asylum seekers on the boat, does the government concede that those people and the Australian crew on board are being forced to live in cramped, unsafe conditions and are risking endangering their lives?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:30</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CASH</name>
    <name.id>I0M</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Again I reiterate to the Senate that, as this matter is before the High Court, it would clearly be inappropriate for me to comment, but I will say: please be assured that those on this side of the chamber have complete, total and utter faith in the good men and women of Customs and Border Protection, who are the people on the ground—not us here—that every single day ensure that Australia's borders are kept secure. I say thank you to the men and women of Customs and Border Protection and, quite frankly, Senator Hanson-Young, to insinuate that they are in any way not caring for people is demeaning.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:31</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON-YOUNG</name>
    <name.id>I0U</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr President, I ask a second supplementary question. Has the government considered the potential psychological harm that is being inflicted on children when they are held in the hull of the Customs vessel, being locked behind doors in rooms with no windows?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:32</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CASH</name>
    <name.id>I0M</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Again I refer to my previous answer in relation to the matter currently being before the court, but I would again say to Senator Hanson-Young: why did you not show the same interest every single time one of those 1,200 people who are confirmed dead at sea because they got on a leaky boat and risked their lives because your policies encouraged them to do so—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Jacinta Collins</name>
    <name.id>GB6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>You're a grub!</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Collins, you will have to withdraw that.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Jacinta Collins</name>
    <name.id>GB6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I withdraw.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator Collins.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CASH</name>
    <name.id>I0M</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The mere fact that you can come into this place and accuse this government of not caring is total, complete and utter hypocrisy and does not stand up when you look at the facts.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Renewable Energy</title>
          <page.no>5305</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:33</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SINGH</name>
    <name.id>M0R</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Prime Minister, Senator Abetz. I refer to the government's review of the renewable energy target that will soon be handed down. I also refer to comments by Andrew Thomson, Managing Director of Acciona Energy, who said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">If governments flip-flop with policy to the extent that they drive the renewable energy sector out of this country and foreign investors away from this country, don’t expect to be able to attract them back in a hurry.</para></quote>
<para>Does the minister agree that abolishing the renewable energy target will drive the renewable energy sector and foreign investors away from Australia?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:33</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ABETZ</name>
    <name.id>N26</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>We are getting very close to the hypothetical questions with the honourable senator's question because I am asked what might happen if we were to abolish the renewable energy target. The government has made no such announcement. What the government has said is that there would be a review of the renewable energy target, something that was actually in the legislation when it was passed. The review now falls to this government to undertake.</para>
<para>Like with everything we do, we will look at this in a methodical manner, in a purposeful manner and in a careful manner to ensure that we get the right policy settings. We will not be responding as Senator Singh and the Labor Party does—for example, there is a <inline font-style="italic">Four Corners</inline> program so you ban the live export trade. We do not behave like that in government. We take a very considered approach to policy making and that is why, Senator, whilst you want us as a government—and I can understand the political tactic of trying this—to be pre-empting our own inquiry and its findings, we will not be. We hear the comments of Mr Thomson and other people. I am sure they have put their views to the committee of review in relation to the renewable energy target. All that will come out in the wash with their report, and the government will consider it.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:35</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SINGH</name>
    <name.id>M0R</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr President, I ask a supplementary question. I refer to the Granville wind farm project that has the potential to employ 200 people on Tasmania's west coast. Is the minister aware of the comments by Westcoast Wind Director, Royce Smith, who said that the uncertainty around the RET review has 'got a few investors a bit shy at the moment because it's a bit hard to invest money if you don't know what the outcome is going to be'. Won't abolishing the renewable energy target undermine, rather than create, jobs on Tasmania's west coast?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:36</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ABETZ</name>
    <name.id>N26</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Talking about the abolition of the renewable energy target in this manner, as Senator Singh has done, is more likely to undermine confidence than anything else. So the crocodile tears of Senator Singh are there for all to see. As I have indicated, we have a review being undertaken. We will consider the outcome of that review and make a decision that is in the long-term best interests of our nation, both economically and environmentally. Until such time as we have the review and have considered it, all the other commentary by Senator Singh might grab her a headline but, with great respect, is pure speculation that does nothing for the sector that she seeks to champion.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:37</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SINGH</name>
    <name.id>M0R</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr President, I ask a further supplementary question. This is the minister's opportunity to get rid of that speculation. Can the minister confirm that the government remains committed to the Prime Minister's pre-election promise to maintain the renewable energy target?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:37</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ABETZ</name>
    <name.id>N26</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I can confirm that the government are committed to undertaking the review which was always on the cards and which is now being undertaken. As a government that are committed to policies such as direct action to assist the environment, a policy that I am sure Senator Singh and her Labor colleagues will endorse and support us on, we will look at this review and its recommendations. Are we committed to renewable energy? The government are committed to working through these issues in a manner that is in the best interests of all Australians. When you have a taxpayer funded review, does it not make sense for a mature, stable government to say let's wait for the review? <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>World War II: Japanese Troops, Australian Defence Force</title>
          <page.no>5307</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:38</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LAMBIE</name>
    <name.id>250026</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister for Defence, Senator Johnston. I refer the minister to his Prime Minister's comments where he described Japanese troops of World War II as 'honourable'. Does the minister agree with his Prime Minister's description of World War II Japanese troops?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:38</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator JOHNSTON</name>
    <name.id>00AON</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Lambie for that important question. For 70 years now Japan has conducted itself in stark contrast to its history in the 1930s and 40s, and is a peace-loving country that has a constitution that has set it on a path of peace and harmony with both its neighbours and the rest of the world. The fact is we have served in a number of places with Japanese troops. We have been in Cambodia, we have been in East Timor, we have been in Iraq and we are currently in South Sudan with Japan Self-Defense Force members. Those Japan Self-Defense Force members are very, very honourable people. They have conducted themselves in difficult circumstances, in ways where they have extreme restrictions on their rules of engagement. They have participated in harm's way in a way that has been very honourable. Indeed, recently, as I am sure Senator Lambie knows, we have sought to have an increased defence relationship with Japan.</para>
<para>Currently, Japan has for at least 25 years been participating with the United States and with Australia in various trilateral exercises. Currently, Japan participates in RIMPAC every second year, an exercise put on in Hawaii by the United States Navy, by the Central Pacific Command. In all of those instances, Japan has conducted itself with great honour and integrity, and, I say, in contrast to what has gone before historically. Indeed, commercially, our relationship with Japan, more widely, has been a very successful one for Australia. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:41</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LAMBIE</name>
    <name.id>250026</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr President, I ask a supplementary question. Is the minister concerned about the high rate of suicide of former members of the ADF and will he support my call for a royal commission into the conduct and procedures of Veterans' Affairs?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:41</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator JOHNSTON</name>
    <name.id>00AON</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator Lambie. Let me pull up my brief on this matter.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Conroy</name>
    <name.id>3L6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Oh, dear. You should have done that first!</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order, Senator Conroy!</para>
<para>Opposition senators interjecting—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order on my left! Senator Johnston has the call.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator JOHNSTON</name>
    <name.id>00AON</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The fact is that we have a serious issue with post-traumatic stress disorder in the ADF. I have taken the time to compare the suicide rates known to us inside the ADF, and with recent veterans members leaving the ADF and going into the Veterans' Affairs jurisdiction, with those of the United States. The comparison is much more favourable for us. The rate is very, very disturbing in the United States. We leave no stone unturned in getting the transition right and in managing the mental health of our people. It occupies our mind every day for several hours. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:42</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LAMBIE</name>
    <name.id>250026</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr President, I ask a further supplementary question. Would the Minister for Defence agree that the transition period between defence and into veterans' affairs is an absolute failure?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:42</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator JOHNSTON</name>
    <name.id>00AON</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator, I do not agree with that. Senator Ronaldson and I spend an awful lot of time looking at how we take veterans away from defence on their departure from active service, particularly in Army, into the jurisdiction of Veterans' Affairs. We have a huge responsibility to our men and women who have served us so well, particularly in Afghanistan. Of course, we take a great amount of time and put great effort into making sure that that transition, particularly where they have ongoing health issues, is as smooth and seamless as possible.</para>
<para>Senator, I thank you for your question. It is a valid question and it is a good question to ask in this chamber. We take great effort in making sure that the men and women who have served us so well have a seamless transition with all of their health issues into the Veterans' Affairs jurisdiction. It is an important matter and we are very, very much on top of it, can I assure you. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Budget</title>
          <page.no>5308</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:43</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FAWCETT</name>
    <name.id>DYU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister for Finance, the Minister representing the Treasurer, Senator Cormann. What was the state of the budget when the government came to office and what were the causes for the budget outlook?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:44</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CORMANN</name>
    <name.id>HDA</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Fawcett for that question. The state of the budget was very bad. It should not really surprise us that it was very bad, because Labor governments across Australia have a history of leaving behind budgets that are in a mess. That is what happened when John Howard became Prime Minister and that is what happened when we came into government. Of course, the previous government inherited the situation of no government net debt—a $20 billion surplus, more than $50 billion in the bank. We were collecting more than $1 billion in net interest payments on the back of a positive net asset position. What did Labor do? They delivered $191 billion in deficits in their first five budgets and another $123 billion in projected deficits in their last budget. They took us on a trajectory to $667 billion of gross debt.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Cameron</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>No one believes you.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CORMANN</name>
    <name.id>HDA</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Cameron says that nobody believes us. But do you know what? I suspect that even the people voting for the Labor Party know that the Labor Party do not know how to manage money. Here we are having to borrow $1 billion a month in order to just pay the interest on their debt. Do you know what $1 billion a month would pay for? It would pay for 47,719 hip replacements. It would pay for 49,371 knee replacements. And it would for 371,885 cataract surgeries. Instead, what do we have to do? We have to pay it every month. We have to borrow a billion dollars every month and spend it just on the interest on Labor's credit card bill. We could spend that money on so many better things if only we did not have all of this Labor debt to deal with. It is very important that we get the budget back under control so that in the future we can fund these important health services even better than we are now.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:46</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FAWCETT</name>
    <name.id>DYU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr President, I ask a supplementary question. Minister, how may decisions made by this parliament on proposed savings and revenue measures change the budget outlook?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:46</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CORMANN</name>
    <name.id>HDA</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Fawcett for the supplementary question. The choice for the Senate is clear, really. Either we stay on Labor's expressway to more debt and deficits or we turn the situation around and build a stronger, more prosperous economy where everyone can get ahead and where we can get the budget back into balance. Of course, we know that the previous Labor Treasurer, Wayne Swan, used to sell the virtues of surplus budgets. Every year he would promise us another couple of budget surpluses. 'The surplus years are here', he would say, and then he would deliver another couple of deficits. Of course, the Labor Party has not delivered a surplus budget since 1990. The Labor Party has not delivered a surplus budget in 24 years. This Senate needs to join the government in helping us fix the budget mess that we have inherited so that we can strengthen the future for our children. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:47</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FAWCETT</name>
    <name.id>DYU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr President, I ask a further supplementary question. Minister, what are the risks to all Australians if this parliament fails to address Australia's budget problems?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:47</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CORMANN</name>
    <name.id>HDA</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The risk is that on the back of continuing to borrow to fund our consumption today we will expose our children and grandchildren to lower living standards and we will force them to pay higher taxes and accept lesser services in order to pay for our cost of living today. That is of course entirely inappropriate. I have been reading out a few quotes in recent weeks and I came across this quote from John Edwards, the RBA board member who was appointed by Mr Wayne Swan and who was former Prime Minister Paul Keating's principal economics adviser. This is what he said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">I've no doubt there is a budget crisis. We're accumulating debt as a higher share of GDP and of course in absolute terms, [it's] absolutely astronomical …</para></quote>
<para>This is Paul Keating's economic adviser:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… compared to far more serious episodes in Australian history, including recoveries from serious recessions.</para></quote>
<para>So Paul Keating's economics adviser thinks this is worse than it has ever been. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Budget</title>
          <page.no>5309</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:48</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RHIANNON</name>
    <name.id>CPR</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I direct my question to Minister Cormann, representing the Treasurer. Considering that yesterday the Treasurer stated on <inline font-style="italic">Sky News </inline>that, 'the most significant individual item in the budget is a savings measure, it's a reduction in foreign aid.' Considering that the differential of any money allocated for a department that is not spent goes back into consolidated revenue, do you plan to make savings from the aid budget by slowing down expenditure on overseas aid programs? If so, which parts of the overseas aid program will experience reduced expenditure?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:49</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CORMANN</name>
    <name.id>HDA</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The government has been very transparent in the savings that we intend to make out of the foreign aid budget. Given the debt and deficit disaster that we have inherited from the Labor Party, we have no choice but to focus on getting our own affairs in order before we start spending money that we have not got. The Labor Party and the Greens might want us to continue to borrow money to give it away, but we think we have a responsibility to our children and grandchildren to repair the budget, to build a stronger, more prosperous economy, to create opportunity for everyone to get ahead, but we are not going to continue to spend money that we have not got. The spending growth trajectory in foreign aid that former Prime Minister Kevin Rudd locked Australia into in his quest to become the next Secretary-General of the United Nations was completely unsustainable and it was completely unaffordable. Our children and grandchildren would not have to pay the price—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Pause the clock. Senator Rhiannon on a point of order.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Rhiannon</name>
    <name.id>CPR</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr President, I rise on a point of order on relevance. The question was quite simple and direct and was about slowing down expenditure on overseas aid programs. Could you draw the minister back to the question please?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The minister has just over one minute left to answer the question. I draw the minister's attention to the question.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CORMANN</name>
    <name.id>HDA</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>As I was saying, the Australian people should not have to pay the price for Mr Rudd going out and trying to stack the numbers in his quest to become the next Secretary-General of the United Nations. In this budget we have frozen the foreign aid allocation, the foreign aid budget, this year and next year at the same nominal amount. Then we are increasing it by the CPI instead of taking it up to 0.5 per cent of gross national income—as we transparently said we would do before the election and as we transparently said we would do in the budget. That is the responsible course of action given the debt and deficit disaster that we inherited from the Labor-Green government when we came into government in September. But of course, if the Greens support our agenda for stronger growth, if the Greens support our agenda to repair the budget, if the Greens support our agenda to get back into surplus, we will have more money available in order to invest in causes like foreign aid. But in the meantime, while we have to borrow a billion dollars a month just to pay the interest on Labor's debt, we just cannot afford more than what is in the budget.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:51</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RHIANNON</name>
    <name.id>CPR</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr President, I ask a supplementary question. Minister, how do you reconcile the Treasurer's statement made last October—that the ambitious goals of eliminating extreme poverty will be meaningless unless strategy is actively pursued to achieve those goals—with the Treasurer's statement of yesterday that, 'We just have to reduce the expenditure as part of our budget savings.' Are you committed to reducing aid spending or to poverty alleviation?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:52</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CORMANN</name>
    <name.id>HDA</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Greens might not understand—and these days it seems the Labor Party does not either—but the only sustainable way to increase spending on foreign aid is to get the budget back under control. The budget situation is such that we cannot continue to borrow money just to give it away. The Labor Party wants us to borrow money and give it away for all sorts of causes. Taken in isolation, you might say that every single cause has got merit, but, do you know what, when you are the government you actually have to prioritise how you allocate your resources. The truth is that you are in a situation where you are heading for $667 billion of debt, which the Labor Party wants our children and grandchildren to repay. I see Senator Cameron smiling. He does not care. Maybe he is quite happy to give his children his credit card with all of his grocery expenses on it for the next couple of years, as well as the interest bill. Would you do that, Senator Cameron? Would you put your groceries on your credit card over the years and then tell your children, 'Well, that's now your problem' or would you say, 'Actually, I've got to take responsibility for my own expenditure'?— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:53</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RHIANNON</name>
    <name.id>CPR</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr President, I ask a further supplementary question. Minister, considering you have really just linked the aid budget with the surplus, how will further cutting the foreign aid budget deliver the new aid paradigm announced by Foreign Minister Julie Bishop and retain excellent aid programs that have seen over a million boys and girls enrolled in school and about 2.8 million children vaccinated against life-threatening diseases? These are some of the programs that are under threat if you continue to reduce spending in the coming period.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:54</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CORMANN</name>
    <name.id>HDA</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Foreign Minister Bishop is doing an outstanding job to make sure that the investment in foreign aid actually delivers real outcomes, because, under the previous administration, Mr Rudd was doing his work to do the numbers to become the next United Nations Secretary-General. Not only did he spend a lot of money on wasteful programs; he also spent a lot of money on massively increasing the size of the Public Service. The increase in the number of public servants in AusAID was much higher than the increase in actual funding into programs. What we are doing is saying, 'We can't continue to spend money that we haven't got. That would be irresponsible to our children and grandchildren. So we need to get the budget back under control.' That is what we are doing. Once the budget is back under control, we can have a conversation about how we best prioritise future spending decisions. But, in the meantime, while we have a deficit— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>McGrath, Senator James</title>
          <page.no>5311</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:55</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Prime Minister, Senator Abetz. I refer to comments by new senator and senior Liberal campaign strategist, James McGrath, who said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… the GST should be broadened to cover everything—and it should also be increased to 15 per cent.</para></quote>
<para>Is the government considering this proposal to broaden the GST to cover everything, including fresh food, school fees, child care and medication? Is the government also considering an additional hit on Australians by increasing the GST to 15 per cent?</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! Before I call the minister: Senator Cameron, you refer to Senator McGrath as 'Senator McGrath'. You forgot to give him his correct title.</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I apologise.</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator Cameron.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:55</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ABETZ</name>
    <name.id>N26</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I am absolutely delighted to inform the electors of Queensland and all Australians that, earlier today, Senator McGrath and I and the coalition and other senators voted to abolish the carbon tax. Senator McGrath ensured that that hit on Australians to which Senator Cameron was referring was actually reduced by $550 per annum for the average—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Cameron</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr President, I rise on a point of order going to relevance. This was a clear and simple question about the GST—the GST on fresh food, school fees, child care and medication, and an increase in the GST.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Cameron, first of all, the minister had hardly commenced his answer. Secondly, he was being directly relevant to a portion of your question, so there is no point of order. Minister, you have the call.</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ABETZ</name>
    <name.id>N26</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Can I also commend the speech that Senator McGrath gave to all Australians—a very good speech. I might say, with respect to Senator McGrath: perfect as it was, it did canvass an issue that is not government policy, and we do not intend to increase the GST. This is a government that wants to try to keep the tax burden on our fellow Australians as low as possible. I understand that Senator McGrath's approach is to increase one tax and to replace other taxes, and therefore the overall tax burden would not be increased. But, having said that, I can inform the Senate and Senator Cameron that we do not intend to change the GST formula. However, can I just observe that it is an absolute delight that Senator Cameron listened to a speech without interjecting. That is why he actually got it and was able to ask his question today. Can I commend him to follow that line in the future. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:58</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thanks for the advice, Senator Abetz. Mr President, I ask a supplementary question. I refer again to comments by the minister's Liberal colleague Senator McGrath, who has called for the abolition of the federal departments of health and education. Is the government's $80 billion cut from hospitals and schools a down payment on Senator McGrath's grand plan?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:59</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ABETZ</name>
    <name.id>N26</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Cameron desperately, on behalf of the Australian Labor Party, continues to peddle this line that somehow the $80 billion to which he refers was actually funded. Every Australian knows that the promise of the $80,000 million, that was to be paid some time into the future, had no revenue base in any way, shape or form other than from borrowing from overseas. That was part of the trajectory into debt, which came to $667,000 million, something which the Labor Party seeks to deny. You cannot have it both ways. The $80 billion was part and parcel of the $667 billion. You know that, those on the other side know that and, Mr President, it is vitally important— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:00</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr President, I ask a further supplementary question. Senator McGrath has also called for the ABC to be sold, echoing the calls of many over there and former deputy Liberal leader Neil Brown, who was recently appointed to the ABC board nomination panel. Given this growing push from within the Liberal Party and given that the Prime Minister has already broken his pre-election promise of no cuts to the ABC, will the minister now come clean about the government's secret plan to privatise our national broadcaster?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:01</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ABETZ</name>
    <name.id>N26</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Let me confess, I am quite jealous. My first speech did not get the attention that Senator McGrath's has received. So I congratulate Senator McGrath for the attention that his speech has received, especially from our socialist friend on the other side Senator Cameron. Senator Cameron loves everything to be in public ownership. But what we as a government have committed to is keeping the ABC in public ownership. That will continue. There is no secret agenda. One thing we on the coalition side like is the aerating of different views and ideas. We actually allow that in the coalition, unlike those who, if they dare speak out against the carbon tax, are resigned to being silenced forever. Isn't that right, Senator Conroy? <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>National Security</title>
          <page.no>5313</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:02</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator REYNOLDS</name>
    <name.id>250216</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Attorney-General, Senator Brandis. Can the Attorney-General advise the Senate why it is so important that Australia modernise its national security legislation?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:02</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator Reynolds, for that question. Can I acknowledge your interest in this area of policy as a former brigadier in the Australian Army who has served her country. As Senator Reynolds would know, intelligence is at the forefront of Australia's national security capability and our intelligence agencies serve us well.</para>
<para>Senator Reynolds might be interested to know that four planned terrorist attacks on Australian soil have been disrupted since the enactment of Australia's counter-terrorism laws in 2002. Twenty-three people have been convicted of terrorism offences under those laws, including eight individuals who returned from war fighting in Afghanistan. Most prosecutions have made significant use of intelligence information. It is, however, imperative that the statutory framework governing our agencies keep pace with contemporary evolving events and developments in modern technology.</para>
<para>As the parliament is aware, the activities in Syria and Northern Iraq have led to an increase in the number of individuals travelling to participate in those conflicts. Among them are, regrettably, a number of Australians, including some who have fought or trained with terrorist organisations. The threat posed by returning foreign jihadists is the most significant risk to Australia's domestic security that we have faced for decades. To equip our agencies with powers that enable them to function effectively in this environment, the bill I introduced into the Senate yesterday contains measures—in most cases identified by the Parliamentary Joint Committee on Intelligence and Security in its bipartisan report tabled last year—which will address practical limitations in the current legislation.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:04</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator REYNOLDS</name>
    <name.id>250216</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr President, I ask a supplementary question. Can the Attorney-General also advise the Senate how these new measures will protect Australians from contemporary security threats?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:04</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The National Security Legislation Amendment Bill (No. 1) 2014 will strengthen the legislative framework governing the activities of the Australian intelligence community by implementing measures including measures to: improve in limited circumstances information sharing between ASIS and ASIO about Australians of security interest overseas; modernise ASIO's warrant-based intelligence collection powers; and strengthen ASIO's ability to conduct covert intelligence operations, always subject to rigorous safeguards. These measures will provide the agencies with a significant boost in their capacity to fight terrorism and other national security threats. Importantly, increased security and safeguards for individual rights do not have to be mutually exclusive. I announced yesterday that the government will appoint a new Independent National Security Legislation Monitor and consider boosting resources for the Inspector-General of Intelligence and Security to achieve both of those objectives.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:05</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator REYNOLDS</name>
    <name.id>250216</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr President, I ask a further supplementary question. Can the Attorney-General advise the Senate whether the government is planning any further changes to enhance the powers of our intelligence and security agencies to protect Australians?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:06</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>This bill is a significant contribution towards ensuring the future capability of Australia's intelligence agencies. However, it is just a first step in the government's commitment to improving Australia's already strong national security laws. The government is undertaking a comprehensive review of those laws, including the terrorism provisions of the Commonwealth Criminal Code, and it is responding to recent reviews, addressing any gaps in the current legislation to ensure our agencies can respond effectively to emerging security threats.</para>
<para>The government's No. 1 priority is keeping Australians safe and protecting Australians and our interests from those who would do us harm. Importantly, Australians can have confidence that this government will make the changes to national security laws in a measured and considered way. I thank the opposition for its bipartisanship on this issue.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Budget</title>
          <page.no>5314</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:07</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator STERLE</name>
    <name.id>e68</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister Representing the Minister for Health. I refer to research by the University of Sydney that found 13 per cent of people in some parts of the community put off seeing a GP, or do not seek medical care, due to cost. What will be the additional impact of the Abbott government's $7 GP tax?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:07</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator NASH</name>
    <name.id>e5g</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I am aware of the report that the senator is referring to, and there have been considerations around that report and the methodology that was used. There has been a range of commentary around the budget when it comes to health. The decisions this government has taken when it comes to the budget and health are to ensure a sustainable health system into the future. Unlike those opposite, who when it comes to health are prepared to run with policy that is ill thought through, this government is going to ensure a sustainable health system.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:08</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator STERLE</name>
    <name.id>e68</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr President, I ask a supplementary question. Can the minister confirm findings from the University of Sydney that an older pensioner couple who hold concession cards would expect to pay $199 or more a year for GP visits, tests and medications as a result of the government's budget measures?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:09</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator NASH</name>
    <name.id>e5g</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>It is interesting to note that a range of those costs for retired people are not attributable to government. The report overstates the effect of the measure on older Australians by including per capita services across the whole population over 65. While the rate of service use and concession card status increases with age, the report does not exclude those items which are not included in the measure—for example, chronic disease management plans. It uses averages, rather than medians, and it is biased by using a small number of people. So the report, in a lots of ways, overstates the effect.</para>
<para>There are obviously a number of views about that report and other reporting on the budget. This government will ensure— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:10</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator STERLE</name>
    <name.id>e68</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr President, I ask a further supplementary question. Can the minister confirm that an average general patient who has type 2 diabetes would pay in out-of-pocket costs an extra $120 per year in co-payments for GP visits and tests as a result of the government's $7 GP tax?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:10</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator NASH</name>
    <name.id>e5g</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>There are a range of measures when it comes to determining what those out-of-pocket costs are. Some of those, in terms of the reporting, have been looked at outside of what government provides. So I would suggest that senators opposite should not necessarily take as gospel what we are seeing in one particular report.</para>
<para>Unlike those opposite, this government is prepared to take the tough decisions when it comes to budgets to make sure we have not only a sustainable health system into the future but a sustainable economy. That is the right thing to do for the Australian people, and that is what this government will continue to do.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The Clerk has asked me to thank honourable senators for their expressions of confidence in her and staff of the Senate department.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Abetz</name>
    <name.id>N26</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr President, I ask that further questions be placed on the <inline font-style="italic">Notice Paper</inline>.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE: TAKE NOTE OF ANSWERS</title>
        <page.no>5315</page.no>
        <type>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE: TAKE NOTE OF ANSWERS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Employment, Renewable Energy</title>
          <page.no>5315</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:12</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator URQUHART</name>
    <name.id>231199</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate take note of the answers given by the Minister for Employment (Senator Abetz) to questions without notice asked by Senators Urquhart and Singh today relating to employment in Tasmania and to the Renewable Energy Target.</para></quote>
<para>My question, I thought, was quite straightforward, but obviously the Minister for Employment was not able to answer it. The closure of the Henty mine was announced on 7 July, with the loss of 150 jobs, sometime around 2015. The immediate closure of Mount Lyell mine was announced on 9 July. The minister said that Mr Whiteley had done a lot more than say to the workers, 'Go to Centrelink'—and I would be very interested to know what that was. In a press release that Mr Whiteley put out on 9 July, he said he would expect that the Premier will request that challenges confronting the west coast be put on the agenda for the next Tasmanian Economic Council meeting, to be held in the next few weeks. So there did not seem to be a lot of urgency from the member for Braddon to get on and look at what help they could provide to the people on the west coast given the announcement of the closure of the mine.</para>
<para>My question was going to whether the government had thought about maintaining the local employment officer—that position will be axed from 30 July. In May, Central Coast Mayor Jan Bonde put out a press release and there was a story in <inline font-style="italic">The</inline><inline font-style="italic">Advocate</inline>. Responding to a question about the position of the local employment officer, James McCormack, being axed, she said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">James, along with Sarah Jones from Enterprise Connect, has been a catalyst for change in the region. In my experience, they are the two best operators in terms of helping to transform our regional economies. He has been able to build relationships with all tiers of government and the key employers and industry groups.</para></quote>
<para>I would have thought that that role would have been extremely helpful to people on the west coast of Tasmania Mayor Bonde went on to say:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Jobs Services agencies operate under a competitive model and it is impossible for councils to work collaboratively to help improved employment outcomes without someone likes James acting as the point of contact.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">He has the ability and relationships to cut across the silos and other boundaries to help create a more co-ordinated approach to identifying and addressing challenges.</para></quote>
<para>So the local mayor talks about how important someone in that role is. But Mr Whiteley does not think that that is important. Without somebody in the local area to help pull all that together it is a very difficult and tough time.</para>
<para>The regional coordinator put together a regional employment plan, and in that regional employment plan there are five goals. Within those five goals there are 19 strategies. The report, <inline font-style="italic">Regional Employment Plan: North West/Northern Tasmania Priority Employment Area</inline>, talks about things like supporting employment, workforce participation and skills development, including through maximising government investment; helping retrenched workers transition into new employment and/or training; facilitating employment and training opportunities for job seekers, including disadvantaged groups, with a focus on industries experiencing skills shortages; facilitating opportunities for employment in new, emerging and growth industries; and developing industry and community partnerships to increase participation in employment and training. I would have thought that those key areas contained in that priority employment area plan were all things with which the west coast could dearly use the assistance of someone like a regional employment coordinator. But, no, the government does not seem to think that it is important.</para>
<para>But I am heartened because, after a lot of calls, today, at around 9.30 am or 9.40 am, Mr Whiteley gave a speech in the other place in which he said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">At the request of the state government, I have committed to working closely with my good friend Adam Brooks MP, who is leading the group to an outcome that results in this region restored as the economic powerhouse of Tasmania as it once was.</para></quote>
<para>So we had the announcement two weeks ago that the mines were closing and the member for Braddon has now got up and said that he is actually going to be part of that. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:17</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ABETZ</name>
    <name.id>N26</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I am delighted to take part in this debate and remind Senator Urquhart of a little bit of history. James McCormack, the local employment coordinator to whom she refers, did a great job for Tasmanians in that particular area. But there was something that Senator Urquhart forgot to tell the Senate. Chances are she did not forget and she deliberately withheld, but I am willing to give her the benefit of the doubt. Do you know how long Mr McCormack—who did all this wonderful work—was contracted for by the previous Labor government? It was until 30 June 2014. So the very last budget for which Labor senators, including Senator Urquhart, voted for would have seen the stopping of his contract as of 30 June 2014. We implemented the Labor Party's approach in this area. So please, Senator Urquhart and other Labor senators, do not come into this chamber crying crocodile tears when you had no intention in any way, shape or form of continuing that position, as you did not make any money available for it beyond 30 June 2014.</para>
<para class="italic">Senator Polley interjecting—</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ABETZ</name>
    <name.id>N26</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I will take Senator Polley's interjection, 'Well, why don't you make more money available?' I indicate to Senator Polley and the Labor Party the financial difficulties we face today is courtesy of Labor mismanagement. As we speak, we are borrowing $1,000 million per month just to pay the interest bill on the existing borrowings. Today we heard in question after question from the Australian Labor Party that their answer to all the world's problems is 'just borrow more'. If you were to follow the Greens as well, you would borrow more from overseas so we could pay it overseas. That is why this nation is in the financial difficulties that she is in. It is the Labor-Green legacy. And we have now been given the task by the Australian people to repair the damage. Regrettably, when you waste your money on pink batts, school halls and cash splashes, the day comes when you have to repay that money with interest. As a result, good people like James McCormack, the local employment coordinator, cannot continue to be funded. But, please, do not blame us for that decision; it was a Labor decision—and when we looked for money, regrettably, there was none there because of Labor's legacy.</para>
<para>The member for Braddon, Mr Whiteley—who is doing a fantastic job for the people of Braddon—from the west coast and right through the north-west coast of my home state of Tasmania—saw the state government acting very proactively with a task force to assist with what is a devastating blow to the west coast with the closure of two mines. Given that it was a state government task force, it is appropriate to make the appropriate inquiries to ascertain one's capacity to make a contribution to it. That is what Mr Whiteley has done, and Mr Whiteley is now going to make a positive contribution to that task force. That is the way sound, sensible government conducts itself.</para>
<para>If you listened to all the questions from the Labor Party today you would get the impression that the Labor way is 'see a problem, borrow money from overseas, throw a bucket of money over it and then walk away because you have somehow satisfied your moral obligation'. We say that that is the Labor way but it is not a responsible way. It is not the honourable way. The honourable way is to take a step back, take a deep breath and ask, 'How do you handle this situation the best for the long-term benefit of not only the west coast but also all the individuals impacted?' and then hear from those people what is needed and how we can assist—and that is exactly the approach that we as a government here in Canberra and the new Premier, Will Hodgman, are taking to this devastating situation in Tasmania. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:22</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SINGH</name>
    <name.id>M0R</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>What we have heard here in the response to Senator Urquhart's questions by Senator Abetz, a Tasmanian senator himself, is: 'Don't blame us when it comes to workers and their families losing their jobs on the west coast of Tasmania. Don't blame us. We're just the government. We can't do anything.' Senator Abetz wants to keep going back in time and holding onto this thing of 10 months ago when Labor was in power, trying to blame every single lack of government policymaking that they currently have on Labor. Well, this is the government that is in power and this is the government that can do something right now to support those workers on the west coast of Tasmania.</para>
<para>Senator Urquhart asked a very specific question of Senator Abetz. He failed to answer it. She asked specifically about the employment coordinator position that no longer exists on the west coast of Tasmania. We know that these positions do not exist in fact anywhere in the country—the whole 21 of them have gone—except for in the electorate of Corangamite, in Sarah Henderson's electorate. I have got a press release here from Sarah Henderson, which she only put out on 2 July—I think it was following her appearance on a <inline font-style="italic">Q&A</inline> program. Senator Abetz came to her rescue. In relation to the Alcoa workers, Senator Abetz decided to come up with the $500,000 to reinstate the employment coordinator for the Geelong region. It is all right for Geelong. It is good enough Geelong, but it is not good enough for his own state of Tasmania. He is turning his back on the workers in his own state. He gets up here in the Senate and tells those workers, tells the Tasmanian community, that it is not the government's problem, that they are not going to do anything about it. It was okay for Geelong, but it is not okay for the west coast of Tasmania.</para>
<para>In relation to the member for Braddon, Brett Whiteley, we know all about him. We know he is all about bluff and blunder. He is not about action. He has got the mouth. He goes out there spreading the words, but they are not followed up with any action. Having said that, Senator Urquhart has informed the Senate that, after two weeks, he is finally going to do something and get involved with the working group, unlike what he has said in the past, which was: 'You're losing your job. Go to Centrelink. Don't come to me. I'm just the local member. I'm just the government. I can't help you.' That is what we get to hear from Senator Abetz and from Mr Whiteley.</para>
<para>We know very well the importance of Enterprise Connect. We know very well how important that coordinator position was in Tasmania and the work that was done by the former employment coordinator, James McCormack. That is why we are calling on the government to provide, right now, a regional employment coordinator for the west coast and the north-west coast of Tasmania, just as Geelong has been provided with, just as Sarah Henderson informed us, in her press release of 2 July, that she was provided with for her electorate of Corangamite. She knows the importance of the regional employment coordinator in the face of Alcoa workers losing their jobs. She says:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The funding will ensure there is a person on the ground in the Geelong region who can look at opportunities across our region to promote employment growth and better link job seekers and employers.</para></quote>
<para>She knows very well that this job seeker initiative was a good policy that Labor started. That is why she urged Senator Abetz come forward with the $500,000. The only regional employment coordinator in the country is in the electorate of Corangamite. The rest of the country? Too bad. In Tasmania, Senator Abetz's own state, he says, 'Too bad.' Here are workers and their families whose livelihoods are on the line. They have been living on half-pay now for some time. They know that their future is bleak in that regional part of the state. There need to be those opportunities provided to them through the support of an employment coordinator. That is why Senator Urquhart and I, followed by the other Tasmanian Labor senators, are urging Senator Abetz to stand up for Tasmanians for once and actually come forward with this very small amount of money that will make such a difference to their lives. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:27</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator COLBECK</name>
    <name.id>00AOL</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr Deputy President, congratulations on your ascension to the role. I have not had the opportunity to formally congratulate you before.</para>
<para>The circumstances on the west coast of Tasmania are indeed unfortunate. It is a very difficult time for people on the west coast of Tasmania. If Labor members and senators think that the only thing that can be offered to that community is a local or regional employment coordinator, if that is all they are asking for, it shows how shallow their approach to this very, very difficult circumstance is.</para>
<para>I might reflect on some other difficulties that have occurred in my region over the last few years. It is good that Senator Carr is in the chamber, because he was part of the process under which we lost two paper mills and a carpet factory. What was the Labor government's response to that? The Labor government's response to the circumstance where the paper industry decided they were going to review—</para>
<para class="italic">Senator Polley interjecting—</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator COLBECK</name>
    <name.id>00AOL</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Just wait and see what the response was, Senator Polley. The Labor Party's response was to call a meeting of interested parties.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Kim Carr</name>
    <name.id>AW5</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Rubbish! Complete rubbish!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator COLBECK</name>
    <name.id>00AOL</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Let me finish, Senator. Not only did they call a meeting; Senator Carr would not even come to Tasmania. He called the locals to go to him in Victoria. They had to travel to Victoria to meet with him. He did not have time to come to Tasmania. Then he put into place a committee to consider the future of the pulp and paper industry, alongside the decision-making process of the company. And guess what?</para>
<para>The committee he put into place did not report until after months and months, after the company had made the decision to close. He said at the outset that this committee would consider the industry in conjunction with the company itself, so that the company could be informed by the process of the committee, but the committee did not report until well and truly later.</para>
<para>We are consulting with the community. The member for Braddon has already spoken to the Prime Minister in the Prime Minister's office. He has also spoken to the office of the Minister for Industry—who will be in Tasmania next week. With the former minister, they had to go to him.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Kim Carr</name>
    <name.id>AW5</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Where's the money?</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator COLBECK</name>
    <name.id>00AOL</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>As Senator Carr says, just throw a bucket of money at it and it will all go away. We are talking to the community. Interestingly, in Victoria, where the decisions have been known for some time, the community has had a chance to develop a plan. That process is only just starting in Tasmania. The Tasmanian Premier acted very quickly. He was quickly in Queenstown and quickly set up a task force to work with community members. The Labor Party think they can just impose themselves on the community. That is what they did with the carbon tax and that is one of the reasons industry in Tasmania has been doing it so tough. Simplot, for example, is a business which will be saved $4 million a year by today's action in this chamber. The previous government offered them money. They threw money at them. We can save them more money in four years than the previous government offered them just by throwing money at the problem. That is their only answer. They think throwing some money at the problem will sort it all out.</para>
<para>We are making regulatory reform which will reduce the cost to industry and business and allow them to flourish. It will give them the opportunity to grow. It is a very, very unfortunate circumstance on the west coast of Tasmania and we all feel very much for the people. The Labor Party are playing base politics with this issue, in stark contrast to what we did when Caterpillar workers were being put off, when we worked alongside the then local member for Braddon, Mr Sid Sidebottom. We did not criticise the government because there were difficult decisions being made in the industry; yet, as soon as the tables are turned, the Labor Party return to base politics. They are not prepared to listen to what the community want. They just want to play dirty base politics with a very unfortunate circumstance. They are not interested in listening to the local community and are not prepared to chip in and play a sensible and responsible part in what is a very difficult situation. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:32</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator POLLEY</name>
    <name.id>e5x</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>It is extraordinary when an issue is affecting our home state of Tasmania that we have the so-called 'power senators' from Tasmania, who have all the senior positions in this government but they cannot get up to defend their decision to stand by and do nothing. They do absolutely nothing. To have people in this chamber today blaming the mining resource tax or the carbon tax for the closure of those mines is absolutely outrageous. When it comes to what Senator Colbeck has just said in relation to Labor's view of saving jobs, that it is about throwing money at it, that is unbelievable. We want an immediate injection of funds into that community and we want a long-term strategy to ensure that we can invest in the future and can invest in jobs.</para>
<para>Today in the House of Representatives we have Mr Brett Whiteley as the member for Braddon. We also have what are known as—they gave themselves the name—'the Three Amigos'. We have been waiting for the Three Amigos to ride into town in Tasmania and they have never arrived. What they should really be known as is 'the Three Stooges'. The problem is, they are not funny. The situation on the west coast is not funny. On this side we have seen the action of Senator Urquhart and the shadow minister Julie Collins going on the front foot with this issue. Our representatives have been there talking to the community. We have been in contact with the unions.</para>
<para>I have regular contact with the Australian Workers Union, who are down there at the coal face listening to those workers. They have had to survive. They are not living on six months of half pay; they are trying to survive. We know and I would have expected that those opposite as Tasmanians would know their community and know how hard it is there in terms of unemployment. We have—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Colbeck</name>
    <name.id>00AOL</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>So what did you do for the pulp mill workers and the carpet mill workers?</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator POLLEY</name>
    <name.id>e5x</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>We were there and investing in Tasmania.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Colbeck</name>
    <name.id>00AOL</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>They've gone.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator POLLEY</name>
    <name.id>e5x</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>They have gone. You had the opportunity, Senator Colbeck—through you, Mr Deputy President. Show us the way. Why are you not doing something? Why are you prepared, because one of your members goes on <inline font-style="italic">Q&A</inline>, to throw money into Geelong and have a coordinator there? Why is it that one of your members has to go on <inline font-style="italic">Q&A</inline>? I very much doubt that that is the way the Tasmanian community are going to have any respect for this government because we are not interested in invasion, which has been demonstrated here today. We are not interested in posturing, we are not interested in vague media releases where the local member says to the people who have lost their jobs, 'Go and see Centrelink,' when they know full well that they would not be entitled to the sort of support that they need now.</para>
<para>When we debate this, we have inaction from those opposite, but we want action. We want action now for an immediate intervention to help these people and then we need a long-term plan and strategy to assist that community. We do not want Queenstown to become a ghost. Those on the opposite side come into this chamber every week talking about small businesses. What are you doing to ensure those businesses in that region are able to succeed? What are you going to do to assist families trying to pay their mortgage? Today after questions in relation to the GST, Senator Abetz said, 'No, it is not government policy to support an increase in GST to 15 per cent,' but he did not say anything about not broadening that tax.</para>
<para>We have seen from this government through their budget that they are callous and heartless, and the Tasmanian Liberal senators and the Liberal members of the House of Representatives have proven once again that they are out of touch. They don't listen, and Senator Colbeck says, 'We go down there and we talk to the people.' That is right: you only do the talking. You never listen to the community. You never listen to the experts and you have not even been there.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Colbeck</name>
    <name.id>00AOL</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Tell us what they want!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator POLLEY</name>
    <name.id>e5x</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>You should be there. They want action. They want some leadership. They want some vision, but we know that this government is incapable of showing leadership. We know they are incapable of having any vision and we know they are incapable of having a strategy and supporting the Tasmanian community. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Budget</title>
          <page.no>5321</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:38</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RHIANNON</name>
    <name.id>CPR</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate take note of the answer given by the Minister for Finance (Senator Cormann) to a question without notice asked by Senator Rhiannon today relating to overseas development aid.</para></quote>
<para>The response from Senator Cormann representing the Treasurer was deeply disturbing. He failed to address the question which adds to the concern that has grown since we heard the comments yesterday from the Treasurer, Mr Hockey, when he was appearing on Sky News. He said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… the most significant individual item in the Budget is a savings measure, it's a reduction in foreign aid.</para></quote>
<para>We have seen the aid budget hit—it was hit under Labor. It has been hit and reduced substantially under the coalition, but this takes it to a whole new level of being very deceptive with the public. As we could see from the minister's response, he is avoiding saying it is a cut, not surprisingly—and they can probably get away with that, because they will drive down spending and then the money saved can go back into consolidated revenue.</para>
<para>We need to see this in context: the foreign aid budget makes up less than 1.5 per cent of the overall budget but it accounted for 20 per cent of the savings announced as part of May's federal budget. The aid budget has become like an ATM: the place where the government dips in when they are looking for some savings.</para>
<para>It was disappointing that the former foreign minister, Mr Carr, did this from time to time, and the new government has taken it up with gusto. This comes at a time when poverty and alleviation should remain a top priority with this government.</para>
<para>It is also very worrying that, when you look at how this is playing out, we have a reduced aid budget and then we need to consider what that money is spent on. More and more, it is being spent on programs that are primarily about benefiting Australia. What this government has pushed to the top of the agenda in terms of how the aid programs are determined is that it has to be in the national interest. This has been a problem that has been identified over many years. It was previously called tied aid. In the 1990s, it became highly discredited to the point that the OECD redefined what the definition was for overseas development aid.</para>
<para>Again, as we see so often, governments find a way to get around things. The primary focus of Australia's aid programs has been to support the national interest. While it may not always be locked in that it has to be Australian companies, public-private partnerships are talked about, programs need to be about economic growth and corporations need to be involved. So many of these low-income countries will not be able to tender for the projects. They do not have big companies that can tender for the infrastructure projects that the government is looking to be a major part of the Australian aid budget. So, more and more, we will see the tendering decisions going to Australian companies.</para>
<para>We have also seen in recent times some worrying trends in the aid program with an emphasis on helping the corporate sector expand in low-income countries, all on the basis that we will have economic benefits flow through to the poor people. That whole trickle-down argument was widely discredited 10 or 20 years ago, but that is where the government has well and truly gone back to the past.</para>
<para>Some of the programs that have got caught up in this way of conducting aid are very damaging to local communities. Some examples of that are the land reform programs in Papua New Guinea and parts of the Pacific; and the Mining for Development Initiative, which is about opening up low-income countries to the operations of mining companies.</para>
<para>Just to take that first one: in parts of Papua New Guinea and the Pacific land is being registered in the name of individual owners, which breaks down the very different way that these communities work where there is collective ownership of land. Land in many ways is likened to a superannuation policy: it is always there to give support to communities. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>5323</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Treaties Committee</title>
          <page.no>5323</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Government Response to Report</title>
            <page.no>5323</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:43</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BUSHBY</name>
    <name.id>HLL</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I present the government’s response to the 130th report of the Joint Standing Committee on Treaties and seek leave to incorporate the document in <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline>.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">The document read as follows—</inline></para>
<quote><para class="block">Australian Government response to the Joint Standing Committee on Treaties' report: Report 130</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Malaysia</inline> <inline font-style="italic">—</inline> <inline font-style="italic">Australia Free Trade Agreement done at Kuala Lumpur on 22 May 2012</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">June 2014</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 1: That prior to commencing negotiations for a new agreement, the Government table in Parliament a document setting out its priorities and objectives including independent analysis of the anticipated costs and benefits of the agreement. Such analysis should be reflected in the National Interest Analysis accompanying the treaty text.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government does not accept this recommendation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The powers to negotiate and enter into treaties are executive powers within section 61 of the Australian Constitution. Accordingly, formal responsibility for treaty making and negotiation lies with the Executive. The Government nevertheless considers that the Parliament has a significant role in scrutinising treaties prior to binding treaty action being taken and in passing legislation to give effect to them where necessary. The Joint Standing Committee on Treaties (JSCOT) plays an important part in fulfilling Parliament's role in this respect. The Government remains of the view that its capacity to effectively pursue the national interest while allowing for appropriate public consultation is best met by current parliamentary and consultation processes.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government currently provides information about treaties under consideration or negotiation in a variety of ways. The nature and extent of public consultation is determined by the scope and importance of the proposed treaty and can include statements to the Parliament, press releases, information published on agency websites, calls for public submissions and face-to-face consultations with industry and civil society representatives. The purpose of such consultations is to inform the public about the Government's priorities and objectives and to afford an opportunity for comment. In addition, regular consultations are conducted with the States and Territories through the Standing Committee on Treaties.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Notwithstanding its commitment to stakeholder consultation, the Government is constrained in what it can disclose about prospective and ongoing treaty negotiations. Making detailed information about Australia's negotiating position publicly available prior to the commencement of negotiations would limit Australia's room for manoeuvre in the negotiations. Adopting the Committee's recommendation could circumscribe the capacity of Australia's negotiators to secure the best possible outcomes for Australia in the treaty negotiations.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Any statement of negotiating priorities and objectives made at the outset of treaty negotiations would be of limited value in assessing the eventual treaty outcomes. Negotiating priorities commonly develop over the course of negotiations, and eventual treaty outcomes reflect compromises acceptable to all Parties. While negotiators operate within defined parameters, it is generally not possible to predict accurately the full range of commitments which will be incorporated into the final agreement until negotiations are concluded. Similarly, any advance assessment of costs and benefits would necessarily be based on a range of assumptions which may or may not prove correct. The Government considers the current practice of tabling treaties after they are concluded enables the Parliament to make a more meaningful assessment of their impact on the national interest, based on the actual rights and obligations they contain.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Treaties do not become legally binding on Australia until the Government formally undertakes to perform the obligations set out in the treaty by taking binding treaty action (ratification, acceptance, approval or other formal mechanism provided for in the treaty). Until binding treaty action is taken, Australia is only obliged to refrain from acts which would defeat the object and purpose of the treaty1. Other than in exceptional circumstances, the Government does not take binding treaty action, or introduce legislation to give legal effect to treaty provisions in Australia, until after JSCOT has reviewed and reported on the treaty and its advice has been taken into account. Existing treaty tabling arrangements therefore afford ample opportunity for the Parliament to express its views on treaties well before a final decision is made on whether they become binding on Australia.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes Recommendation 1 does not state what would constitute 'independent analysis' of the anticipated costs and benefits of the agreement. If it is intended that the Government commission econometric or other modelling on proposed treaty negotiations prior to their commencement, this could delay the start of negotiations and further impinge on the Government's negotiating flexibility. The Government further notes the recommendation does not make any allowance for urgent or sensitive treaties. Finally, adding another step to the treaty process would have resource implications for the responsible agencies, which the Government does not consider to be justified.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 2: That after 24 months of the treaty coming into effect, an independent review of MAFTA be conducted to assess actual outcomes of the treaty against the claimed benefits and potential negative consequences noted in this report. The review should consider the economic, regional, social, cultural, regulatory, labour and environmental impacts. Such a review should serve as a model for future free trade agreements.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">A period of 24 months after the entry into force of MAFTA is brief in the context of the implementation of such a treaty. Any conclusions drawn from such a review would necessarily be limited in terms of the overall assessment envisaged by this recommendation. A longer period following MAFTA's entry into force would allow for a more insightful review of the agreement. It would also be important for any review to take into account the fact that MAFTA was concluded in the context of the Agreement Establishing the ASEAN-Australia-New Zealand Free Trade Area (AANZFTA), and that MAFTA complements and builds on the commitments applying to trade and investment between Australia and Malaysia in AANZFTA.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In addition, the Government considers that it is important that a review of the type proposed in the recommendation is used to provide input into the general review of the Agreement mandated by MAFTA within five years of entry into force and at least every five years thereafter unless otherwise agreed by the parties (Chapter 21—Final Provisions). This general review provides an avenue to identify and address any problems experienced by business in taking advantage of the Agreement and to seek to enhance MAFTA's contribution to increased economic integration of our two economies.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government will, therefore, undertake a review through the general review process provided for in the Agreement. The first general review of MAFTA will provide a basis for an initial assessment of the Agreement's implementation, which could be followed up at the subsequent five‑yearly reviews. The Government will seek the views and input of stakeholders independent of the Government ahead of those reviews on the extent to which MAFTA is delivering expected outcomes, and seek input on areas where the Agreement's provisions could be enhanced. The nature of the review undertaken at each of these periods will be subject to discussion with Malaysia.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In addition to the general review, MAFTA contains other review mechanisms. For instance, MAFTA incorporates a requirement to establish an FTA Joint Commission. The FTA Joint Commission will meet annually, or as otherwise determined by the Parties, to review implementation and operation of MAFTA and, <inline font-style="italic">inter alia</inline>, to explore measures to improve MAFTA and to expand trade and investment between the two parties (Chapter 19—Institutional Provisions). Certain chapters in the Agreement also contain their own specific review provisions. For example, the Rules of Origin Chapter provides for review of the provisions of that Chapter within three years of the entry into force of the Agreement. The Services Chapter provides for a review of commitments on trade in services to be undertaken within three years of entry into force and thereafter every five years.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Additional review provisions are contained in side letters to the Agreement that provide for reviews on the inclusion of labour and environment provisions and on customs duties and other charges applied to certain alcoholic beverages no later than two years after the entry into force of the Agreement.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 3: The Committee supports the Malaysia-Australia Free Trade Agreement done at Kuala Lumpur on 22 May 2012 and recommends that binding treaty action be taken.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This recommendation was implemented by the former Government and MAFTA entered into force on 1 January 2013.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">1 Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties (Vienna, 23 May 1969), Article 18</para></quote>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BUDGET</title>
        <page.no>5325</page.no>
        <type>BUDGET</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Consideration by Estimates Committees</title>
          <page.no>5325</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:44</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BUSHBY</name>
    <name.id>HLL</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>On behalf of the respective chairs, I present additional information received by committees relating to the following estimates:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Additional estimates 2013-14—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Economics Legislation Committee—Additional information received between 15 May and 16 July 2014—Treasury portfolio.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Education and Employment Legislation Committee—Additional information received between 18 June and 17 July 2014—Education portfolio.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Legislation Committee—Additional information received between 15 May and 16 July 2014—Defence portfolio.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Budget estimates 2014-15—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Economics Legislation Committee—Additional information received between 24 June and 16 July 2014—Industry portfolio.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Education and Employment Legislation Committee—Additional information received between 25 June and 16 July 2014—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Education portfolio.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Employment portfolio.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Environment and Communications Legislation Committee—Additional information received between 27 June and 16 July 2014—Environment portfolio.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Legislation Committee—Additional information received between 25 June and 16 July 2014—Defence portfolio.</para></quote>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>5326</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Education and Employment References Committee</title>
          <page.no>5326</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Additional Information</title>
            <page.no>5326</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:44</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BUSHBY</name>
    <name.id>HLL</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>On behalf of Senator Lines, I present additional information received by the Education and Employment References committee on its inquiry into the technical and further education system in Australia.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Publications Joint Committee</title>
          <page.no>5326</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Report</title>
            <page.no>5326</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:44</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BUSHBY</name>
    <name.id>HLL</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>On behalf of the Chair of the Publications Committee, I present the seventh report of the Publications Committee.</para>
<para>Ordered that the report be adopted.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>5326</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Tabling</title>
          <page.no>5326</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>5326</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Select Committee into the Abbott Government's Budget Cuts, Legal and Constitutional Affairs Legislation Committee</title>
          <page.no>5326</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Membership</title>
            <page.no>5326</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:45</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>00AOP</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! The President has received a letters from party leaders requesting changes in the membership of various committees.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:45</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator COLBECK</name>
    <name.id>00AOL</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That senators be discharged from and appointed to committees as follows:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Abbott Government’s Budget Cuts —Select Committee</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Appointed—Senators Canavan, McGrath and Smith</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Legal and Constitutional Affairs Legislation Committee</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Appointed—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   Substitute member: Senator Di Natale to replace Senator Wright for the committee’s inquiry into the exposure draft of the Medical Services (Dying with Dignity) Bill 2014</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Participating member: Senator Wright.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BILLS</title>
        <page.no>5327</page.no>
        <type>BILLS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Defence Legislation Amendment (Woomera Prohibited Area) Bill 2014</title>
          <page.no>5327</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" style="" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" background="">
            <a type="Bill" href="s959">
              <p style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;" class="HPS-SubDebate">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Defence Legislation Amendment (Woomera Prohibited Area) Bill 2014</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Returned from the House of Representatives</title>
            <page.no>5327</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo></subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>5327</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Australian Commission for Law Enforcement Integrity Committee, Law Enforcement Committee</title>
          <page.no>5327</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Membership</title>
            <page.no>5327</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo></subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BILLS</title>
        <page.no>5327</page.no>
        <type>BILLS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Corporations Amendment (Simple Corporate Bonds and Other Measures) Bill 2014, Fair Work (Registered Organisations) Amendment Bill 2014, Meteorology Amendment (Online Advertising) Bill 2014, National Health Amendment (Pharmaceutical Benefits) Bill 2014, Social Security Legislation Amendment (Stronger Penalties for Serious Failures) Bill 2014</title>
          <page.no>5327</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" style="" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" background="">
            <p>
              <a type="Bill" href="r5214">
                <p style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;" class="HPS-SubDebate">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Corporations Amendment (Simple Corporate Bonds and Other Measures) Bill 2014</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <a type="Bill" href="r5289">
                <p style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;" class="HPS-SubDebate">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Fair Work (Registered Organisations) Amendment Bill 2014</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <a type="Bill" href="r5302">
                <p style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;" class="HPS-SubDebate">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Meteorology Amendment (Online Advertising) Bill 2014</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <a type="Bill" href="r5282">
                <p style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;" class="HPS-SubDebate">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">National Health Amendment (Pharmaceutical Benefits) Bill 2014</span>
                </p>
              </a>
            </p>
            <a type="Bill" href="r5275">
              <p style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;" class="HPS-SubDebate">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Social Security Legislation Amendment (Stronger Penalties for Serious Failures) Bill 2014</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>First Reading</title>
            <page.no>5327</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:47</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator COLBECK</name>
    <name.id>00AOL</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I indicate to the Senate that these bills are being introduced together. After the debate on the motion for the second reading has been adjourned, I will be moving a motion to have the bills listed separately on the <inline font-style="italic">Notice Paper</inline>. I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That these bills may proceed without formalities, may be taken together and be now read a first time.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bills read a first time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>5327</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:48</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator COLBECK</name>
    <name.id>00AOL</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I table a revised explanatory memorandum relating to the Fair Work (Registered Organisations) Amendment Bill 2014 and move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That these bills be now read a second time.</para></quote>
<para>I seek leave to have the second reading speeches incorporated in Hansard.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">The speeches read as follows—</inline></para>
<quote><para class="block">CORPORATIONS AMENDMENTS (SIMPLE CORPORATE BONDS AND OTHER MEASURES) 2013</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The establishment of a deep and liquid retail corporate bond market in Australia is a key priority for the Gillard Government. A well performing and efficient retail corporate bond market will provide an alternative funding source for Australian companies and increase competitive pressure on lending rates to businesses.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The bond market is a significant source of funds for many Australian financial and non-financial corporations. Correspondingly, this financing activity provides investment opportunities for both Australians and non-residents.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Johnson Report, Australia as a Financial Centre: building on our strengths, examined the lack of liquidity and diversity in Australia's corporate bond market. It also discussed why this lack of liquidity was a significant weakness in the overall assessment of Australia's financial system. At the retail level, it was considered that one action the Government could take to overcome this weakness was to introduce regulatory changes that could assist with developing the market.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill that is before the House today seeks to reduce the regulatory burden on issuers of corporate bonds, while at the same time ensuring that appropriate standards of consumer protection are maintained.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The introduction of Schedule 1 of the Bill follows the passage of the Government's legislation to facilitate retail trading in Commonwealth Securities (CGS) late last year. Having an active retail CGS is an important step in establishing a wider retail corporate bonds market by providing a visible pricing benchmark for retail investors in corporate bonds.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Schedule 1 to the Bill, delivers on the Government's commitment to reduce regulatory burdens and barriers for offers of corporate bonds to retail investors.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The measures in Schedule 1 enable companies to offer simple corporate bonds by releasing a shorter offer-specific prospectus as long as they have lodged a base prospectus with ASIC for the purpose of making an offer under the new 2-part simple corporate bond prospectus regime.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Schedule 1 of the Bill removes the civil liability that applies to directors and proposed directors for the offer of simple corporate bonds and provides clarification around the due diligence defence in respect to directors' criminal liability in offering corporate bonds.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Schedule 1 to the Bill also contains amendments to the Corporations Act to enable parallel trading of simple corporate bonds in the wholesale and retail markets.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The measures in Schedule 1 are another major initiative that the Government has delivered on in its long term commitment to encourage the development of a deep and liquid bond market in Australia. The measures provide companies with another source of fundraising and signal that it is their time to contribute to the development of Australia's corporate bond market.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The other measures in the Bill, contained in Schedule 2, amend the Corporations Act 2001 to define in the law terms 'financial planner' and 'financial adviser'. These amendments make it an offence for anyone to call themselves a financial planner or financial adviser, unless they are appropriately authorised under the Australian financial services licensing regime.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The amendments contained in Schedule 2 follow the passage of the Future of Financial Advice (FOFA) legislation last year. Key elements of the FOFA reforms include the imposition of a statutory best interests duty on financial advisers, two-yearly opt-in arrangements and annual fee disclosure statements, and a ban on the receipt of conflicted remuneration arrangements, including commissions.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government is committed to increasing investor protection and improving consumer confidence in the financial advice industry. This will provide the financial advice industry with a strong foundation for growth, as well as empowering Australians to obtain good quality advice about managing their wealth. The Government has delivered on its commitment through the FOFA reforms, and continues to deliver on its commitment with the Bill before the House today.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">On 22 March 2012, I announced to Parliament that the Government intended to introduce legislation enshrining the terms 'financial adviser' and 'financial planner' in law by 1 July 2013. These amendments deliver on my earlier commitment. Schedule 2 to the Bill will commence on 1 July 2013 (or after the Royal Assent, if that occurs later), concurrently with the FOFA reforms.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">By legislatively defining the terms 'financial planner' and 'financial adviser', the amendments enable consumers to be able to easily identify genuine financial product advice providers. By preventing anyone who is not a qualified financial planner or financial adviser from telling consumers that they are, the amendments make it easier for consumers to know who to trust with their financial affairs. The measures contained in Schedule 2 of the Bill strengthen protections for consumers.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Importantly, the amendments will help protect consumers from unlicensed persons such as 'property spruikers' who hold themselves out to be genuine providers of financial advice when they are not.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The amendments will ensure that the regulation of financial advisers and planners is consistent with other professions such as stockbrokers, where similar restrictions already exist.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Schedule 2 to the Bill makes it an offence for a person to hold themselves out to be a financial planner or a financial adviser unless they are authorised to provide financial product advice under the Australian financial services licence (AFSL) regime. Schedule 2 also makes it an offence to use terms of similar importance, so that unlicensed persons will not be able to get around the legislation by using similar terms.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Schedule 2 also allows the Government to make regulations prescribing other terms that a person must have an AFSL to use. This means that if individuals or companies start using particular terms to mislead consumers, the Government will be able to respond quickly by restricting the use of these terms.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">People acting in breach of these requirements face penalties of up to 10 penalty units for individuals for every day the contravention occurs, and 50 penalty units per day for corporations.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I note that the measures in Schedule 2 have been developed in consultation with the financial services industry. Key industry bodies are supportive of the amendments. For example, the Financial Planning Association of Australia is of the view that the amendments "will provide greater consumer certainty and protection and further enable the transition of financial planning into a universally respected profession". The Association of Financial Advisers has said that they believe that this legislation "is good for financial advisers and also for the consumers who rely on financial advice", because "consumers deserve to have clarity with respect to who they are seeking advice from".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I note that there are separate, though related, amendments that are being made to the Tax Agent Services Act 2009.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In summary, the amendments contained in Schedule 2 will improve consumer trust and confidence in the financial advice industry. Australian consumers are entitled to be able to easily distinguish between genuine, authorised providers of financial product advice and unlicensed persons such as 'property spruikers' who do not have their clients' best interests at heart. The measures contained in Schedule 2 of the Bill empower consumers to make that distinction.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I commend the Bill to the Senate.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">FAIR WORK (REGISTERED ORGANISATIONS) AMENDMENT BILL 2014</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government remains staunchly committed to improving protections for members of registered organisations by implementing the comprehensive plan to enhance the governance and accountability of registered organisations. To be very clear, this Bill enacts a Coalition policy that was first released in April 2012—more than two years ago.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This is why we are reintroducing the Fair Work (Registered Organisations) Amendment Bill that was voted down by Labor Party and the Greens in the Senate a month ago. By voting against the legislation, they have demonstrated a refusal to support greater accountability and transparency for registered organisations. They have voted against improved protection for union members and have thereby given the green light to more exploitation of honest union members by dishonest union officials. They have also voted against a clearer and simpler reporting framework that would assist both unions and employer associations to comply with the framework.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The absolute need for this legislation almost goes without saying—the rorts, the rackets and the rip-offs have been in the media on an almost daily basis and the wider community is strongly in favour of these reforms.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Until this Parliament acts, Australia won't have a sufficiently robust system to ensure that the sort of corruption that was revealed during the numerous scandals can be uncovered and eradicated before it becomes systemic as it did in the infamous HSU case. It is simply no longer tenable to argue that the present system is adequate to deal with or discourage this kind of behaviour.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Unions and employer associations play a critical role in the workplace relations system and the economy more broadly, and their members invest a great deal of trust in them. The community expectation is that these registered organisations will operate to the highest of standards. These organisations are given special legislated rights. With rights come responsibilities.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The government believes that the majority of registered organisations do the right thing and in many cases maintain higher standards than those that are currently required. However, the investigations into the Health Services Union and the allegations that are coming to light through the Royal Commission illustrate that, unfortunately, financial impropriety can and does occur under the current governance regime and indeed that there is a rotten underbelly in some of these organisations. Let's be clear—loopholes have been identified and they need to be closed.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Fair Work (Registered Organisations) Amendment Bill will provide the certainty and high standards of operation that members of registered organisations and the broader community rightfully expect.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill introduces a suite of legislative measures designed to see governance of registered organisations lifted to a consistently high standard across the board. A more robust compliance regime will deter wrongdoing and promote first-class governance of registered organisations.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Members of unions and the community not only want a strong regulatory regime but also want swift action taken when standards are breached. In order to do this, it is necessary to have a robust regulator in place with appropriate powers and resources, together with meaningful sanctions that can be applied when wrongdoing is revealed.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">To improve oversight of registered organisations, the Bill will establish the Registered Organisations Commission, a dedicated independent watchdog with enhanced investigation and information-gathering powers to monitor and regulate registered organisations. The new commission will have the necessary independence and the powers it needs to regulate registered organisations effectively, efficiently and transparently.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Commission will have stronger investigation and information-gathering powers than those that currently apply. These will be modelled on those available to the Australian Securities and Investments Commission. The Commission will have the power to commence legal proceedings and refer possible criminal offences to the Director of Public Prosecutions or law enforcement agencies.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Commission will also educate, assist and advise registered organisations and their members in relation</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">to the new obligations and ensure members are aware of their rights.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Commission will be established within the Office of the Fair Work Ombudsman. While located within this Office, the Commissioner will have independence in the exercise of the relevant functions and powers under the law, and the authority to direct staff in relation to the performance of those functions. A special financial account will also be established for the Commission to ensure financial independence, and the Commissioner will have responsibility for day-to-day management of the account. The special account cannot be used, as has been suggested by some parties, to raise revenue through collection of monies related to penalties applied to registered organisations and their officers.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Commission will be required to report to the Minister for Employment annually on its activities, and that report will be tabled in Parliament. The Commissioner will appear at Senate estimates. The activities of the Commission will also be subject to the same oversight by the Commonwealth Ombudsman as Commonwealth agencies. This will ensure the appropriate level of transparency and public accountability.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The bill also provides for information sharing between the Fair Work Commission and the Registered</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Organisations Commission to the extent that is required for both organisations to do their job effectively and efficiently. This is required, as several administrative tasks relating to registered organisations will continue to be the responsibility of the General Manager of the Fair Work Commission.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Transitional arrangements have been included in the Bill to ensure any ongoing matters being dealt with by the Fair Work Commission relating to registered organisations can be transferred to the Registered Organisations Commission.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill will also strengthen existing financial transparency obligations for registered organisations and officers. It is entirely appropriate to expect a high standard of financial reporting from our registered organisations, given the trust members place in their unions and employer associations to operate honestly and to use the funds derived from their membership fees to represent their interests rather than for ulterior purposes. Registered organisations have substantial economic, legal and political influence. It is clearly inconsistent with community expectations for such organisations to operate to lower standards than those that apply to corporations or other comparable bodies.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Mr Thomson, Mr Williamson and the unfolding allegations arising out of the Royal Commission have shown us that the existing regulation does not sufficiently protect members' interests. Unfortunately, there will always be less scrupulous individuals who will seek to take advantage of their positions when standards of accountability and the risk of getting caught are too low. In the face of this kind of behaviour, a strong message needs to be sent to discourage wrongdoing by officers and to rebuild the confidence of members and the community. These measures, however, will have little impact if the penalties for wrongdoing are not high enough to act as a deterrent.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Currently, registered organisations and officers do not face the same consequences as companies and directors for wrongdoing. That is why the government is introducing higher civil penalties and a range of criminal penalties for organisations and officials who are found by courts of law to have done the wrong thing. These penalties are consistent with those faced by companies and directors who break the law. In relation to civil penalty breaches, the maximum penalty for serious contraventions will be $204,000 for an individual or $1,020,000 for a body corporate. This will apply to serious contraventions. What will constitute a serious contravention is defined in the Bill. Other breaches will face a maximum civil penalty of $17,000 for an individual or $85,000 for a body corporate. By way of comparison, the current maximum penalties for even the worst misbehaviour are only $10,200 for individuals.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Let me be very clear, it is the Government's expectation that the highest of penalties will be rarely be handed out but it is important that the Courts have the ability to hand down strong penalties should the crime deserve it. We know that the Courts have had an issue with the current framework with Federal Court Judge Anthony North making almost unprecedented comments last year, saying:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">"</inline> <inline font-style="italic">The penalties [under the current Act] are rather beneficially low…beneficial to wrongdoers.</inline> <inline font-style="italic">"</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill will also give the Federal Court the power to disqualify an officer from holding office where a civil penalty provision has been contravened and the court is satisfied that disqualification is justified.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Criminal penalties are being introduced for serious breaches of officers' duties as well as offences in relation to the conduct of investigations under the Registered Organisations Act. The maximum penalties in these areas are $340,000 or five years imprisonment or both and again will be handed down by a court which will use its discretion.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Broadly, these offences relate to officers and employees of registered organisations who fail to exercise their powers or discharge duties in good faith and for a proper purpose. They also apply where an officer uses their position to gain advantage for themselves or someone else or uses information gained while an officer or employee to gain an advantage for themselves or someone else.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Some registered organisations have indicated concern that the new penalties will mean that they will have difficulty persuading people to take on official responsibilities. The government does not agree. The only people who have anything to fear are those who do the wrong thing. Officers who are operating within the law, which is the overwhelming majority of them, will have no reason to fear taking on official responsibilities. The overwhelming number of officers who are already doing the right thing should be comforted in knowing that the unlawful behaviour will be dealt with, thus ensuring ongoing member confidence in registered organisations as a whole. There should be no difference between the penalties levied against a company director who misuses shareholders' funds and a registered organisations boss who misuses members' money.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I recognise the broad community consensus for the government's amendments, including from one of Australia's most prominent union bosses, Mr Paul Howes, the outgoing head of the Australian Workers Union, who told the ABC on 26 November 2012:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">I actually believe there is a higher responsibility for us as guardians of workers</inline> <inline font-style="italic">'</inline> <inline font-style="italic"> money to protect that money and to act diligently and honestly. The reality is I do not have any issue with increasing the level of requirements and penalties on trade unions for breaching basic ethics like misappropriation of funds.</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Anyone in this place who has regard for the best interests of members of registered organisations and the protection of their hard-earned contributions will support this Bill. The refusal of the Labor Party and Greens to support the Bill as introduced in November 2013 is delaying the government's attempts to protect honest union members.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The government believes the Bill sets an appropriately high standard for the governance and regulation of registered organisations. It responds to the legitimate concerns of members of registered organisations and the community as a result of the shocking behaviour of certain Health Services Union officials and allegations arising out of the Royal Commission into Trade Union Governance and Corruption. Only those officers who do the wrong thing have anything to lose from these changes. Members of registered organisations and the community have everything to gain.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">METEOROLOGY AMENDMENT (ONLINE ADVERTISING) BILL 2014</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Meteorology Amendment (Online Advertising) Bill 2014 (the Bill) amends the <inline font-style="italic">Meteorology Act 1955</inline> (Cth) to provide certainty in relation to the Director of Meteorology's powers to include advertising in connection with the Bureau of Meteorology's services and determine the types of advertising that the Bureau displays.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Bureau of Meteorology is relied upon everyday by the Australian community to deliver accurate and timely information, particularly during events where life and property are at risk. The introduction of online advertising followed the 2011 Munro Review of the Bureau's capacity to respond to future extreme weather and natural disaster events and to provide seasonal forecasting services. The Review recommended that options be explored to obtain revenue from advertising on the Bureau's highly popular website.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Advertising on the Bureau's website was trialled for 12-months in 2012-13, and became a permanent measure from 1 July 2013, after being announced in the 2013-14 Budget.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This amendment to the Meteorology Act will remove any doubt to make it explicitly clear that the Bureau of Meteorology can accept paid advertising, allowing the Bureau to further diversify its sources of funding.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It will also require the Director of Meteorology to develop and publish guidelines on the types of advertising that the Bureau will display. This will allow the Director to prohibit advertising that is considered to not be in the Commonwealth's or the Bureau's interests. It is expected that the Director's guidelines will be based on the Bureau's existing Online Advertising Policy, which was developed and published during the advertising trial and is founded on existing industry advertising laws, regulations and codes of conduct.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">NATIONAL HEALTH AMENDMENT (PHARMACEUTICAL BENEFITS) BILL 2014</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The National Health Amendment (Pharmaceutical Benefits) Bill 2014 implements the decision announced in the 2014-15 Budget to increase patient co payments and safety net thresholds for the Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme (PBS) and the Repatriation Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme (RPBS).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It is another example of this Government protecting the best interests of Australians and making the decisions necessary to improve Australia's budget position into the future.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The PBS and RPBS are key components of our health services and are a major investment in the health of Australians. In the ten years to 2012 13, the cost of the PBS has increased by 80 per cent. At a current cost of around $9 billion per year, and with annual growth over the longer term expected to be between four and five per cent, these Schemes won't be sustainable without responsible management.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Why the changes are need ed—PBS costs and new listings</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australia's health system is demand driven. The pressure to provide access to more services, more medicines and more expensive technologies is always increasing.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">There is a continual pipeline of complex and expensive new medicines delivering more targeted and more personalised treatments. Since coming to Government, the Coalition has listed or expanded the listings of 181 medicines on the PBS. Medicines are being listed twice as fast as under the former Labor government.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The additional cost of advances in treatment, together with the ongoing cost of medicines for chronic conditions, means expenditure for our health system is growing faster than Government and tax-payers can sustain.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">If the PBS is to grow in a sustainable way, we need a whole-of-community approach and we all need to contribute—something successive governments have recognised since co-payments for the PBS were first introduced in 1960.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Earlier this year, this Government approved new listings for medicines with an expected cost to the PBS of $436 million. These listings include treatments for breast cancer, melanoma and multiple sclerosis, some of which cost tens of thousands of dollars per patient.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">At its March 2014 meeting, the Pharmaceutical Benefits Advisory Committee (PBAC) recommended a further $550 million in new listings. In July this year, the PBAC will consider applications for new PBS listings worth up to a further $3.6 billion. Funding for new listings is not factored into the forward estimates. It is new money that this Government must find every four months to provide access to those medicines, something we have committed to do.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">But we cannot do that and contain spending without more help, a greater contribution from all Australians who benefit from the PBS.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The changes proposed in the Bill are expected to contribute savings to the Government for the PBS and RPBS of around $1.3 billion over four years. They will provide a check on the rate of growth in PBS expenditure. They do not cut funding for the PBS.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We still expect that the PBS will grow, but more sustainably, from $9.2 billion in 2013 14 to $10.2 billion in 2017 18.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Changes to co-payments—general patients</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Under the changes commencing 1 January 2015, there will be a one-off increase in patient co payment amounts for pharmaceutical benefits prescriptions. This increase will apply in addition to the usual annual Consumer Price Index (CPI) adjustment which occurs on 1 January each year.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The co-payment for general patients, which is currently $36.90, will increase by $5 in addition to CPI. On average, general patients use two PBS-subsidised prescriptions per year. So, for an average user, the additional cost from 2015 would be $10 per year.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Under co-paymen t general patient prescriptions</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The increase in the general co payment will not affect the cost to consumers for many commonly used medicines. Because the co payment amount is the maximum that a person needs to pay under the PBS, when the price of a prescription is less than the co payment, the consumer pays the lesser amount.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Medicines priced at less than the general co-payment already account for more than 40 per cent of PBS listings, and over 70 per cent of general patient PBS prescriptions. By the time the co-payment changes come into effect, more than 55 per cent of listings are expected to be below the general co payment amount. These listings include medicines used to treat high blood pressure, high cholesterol, type 2 diabetes, gastric ulceration, and skin conditions. As competition in the market continues to bring prices down, those reductions are reflected in the prices paid by consumers, as well as by Government.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Changes to co-payments— concessional</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">For individuals and families who access pharmaceutical benefits at the concessional level, including veterans and their dependents under the RPBS, the co payment, which is currently $6, will increase by 80 cents in addition to CPI.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">People with concessional benefits use, on average, 17 prescriptions each year. So under these new arrangements, they will pay an extra $13.60 per year for their subsidised medicines.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government is asking concessional patients to contribute an extra 80 cents for prescriptions which cost on average $43.50. It will also be only an extra 80 cents for medicines such as the cancer treatments, everolimus and dabrafenib, that cost over $5,500, and $8,700 per prescription respectively.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">PBS and RPBS safety nets</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Along with the co payment changes, there will be parallel changes in PBS safety nets.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Safety net arrangements help to protect people who require a lot of medicines from high out-of-pocket costs. For all users of the PBS and RPBS, once the safety net threshold is reached, the co payment amount is reduced for prescriptions required for the rest of the calendar year. For general patients, the co-payment reduces to the concessional amount, and for concessional patients, the co payment is reduced to zero.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Changes to safety nets— general</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Under the proposed changes, the general safety net, which is currently $1,421.20, will increase by ten per cent of the safety net plus annual CPI indexation, on 1 January each year from 2015 until 2018. From 1 January 2019, only annual CPI indexation will apply.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">General patients who are high medicine users will pay around $145.30 more in 2015 before reaching the new safety net threshold—and thereafter will only pay the concessional co-payment to access subsidised medicines for the remainder of the calendar year.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Changes to safety nets— concessional</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The concessional safety net, which is currently equivalent to co payments for 60 prescriptions ($360), will increase by two prescriptions on 1 January each year from 2015 to 2018. The resulting concessional safety net thresholds will be 62 prescriptions in 2015; 64 in 2016; 66 in 2017; and 68 in 2018.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Concessional patients who are high medicine users will pay around $61.80 more in 2015 before reaching the new safety net threshold—and thereafter will receive all their PBS and RPBS subsidised medicines for free for the remainder of the calendar year.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Operation of safety nets— and family example</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Importantly, the same general or concessional safety net applies to individuals, couples and families. The safety net can be tallied separately for an individual or combined where the cost of medicines for couples or family members needs to be met from the same household budget.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">For example, in 2015, a low income family of two adults and two children, who hold a concession card and obtain 72 prescriptions per year between them, will pay $61.80 more than in 2014 before they reach the safety net threshold. But once they reach the safety net, they will get the rest of their PBS prescriptions for that calendar year for free—that's 10 scripts for free—whether it be the $43.50 medicine or the $5,500 medicine or the $8,700 medicine, it will be provided to them at no cost.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Changes to concessional co ntributions for Closing the Gap</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The changes in the Bill will also apply for patient contributions charged at the concessional rate for the Closing the Gap PBS Co payment Measure. Under the Closing the Gap arrangements, eligible Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander consumers who would otherwise pay the general co-payment for PBS prescriptions, pay at the concessional rate. Eligible concessional patients receive their PBS medicines for free.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Patient contributions as one elem ent of effective PBS management</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government has inherited an enormous debt from the former Labor Government and is determined to ensure that health services are sustainable, are used efficiently, and are available for future generations.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The PBS model requires that medicines undergo evidence-based assessment of clinical and cost effectiveness, be listed only on the recommendation of our expert advisory committee, and be subject to comparative and competitive pricing.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Good management of the Scheme also relies on the innovative products supplied by a strong medicines industry, and the quality care provided by Australia's wide network of community pharmacies.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">And since 1960, successive governments have continued to recognise that patient contributions are part of responsible management of the PBS. Indeed it was a Labor Government that introduced a $2.50 patient contribution for pensioners in 1991 and a Labor Government that increased the co-payment for general payments by 100%, from $5 to $10 in 1985.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It has been fair in the past, and it is fair now, to slightly increase the cost for consumers, given the increase in the cost of the PBS over the last 10 to 15 years and the number of very expensive drugs which will be listed in the future.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Conclusion—Savings for new listings and t he medical research future fund</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Demand for the PBS will continue to grow, and we want to list medicines quickly. The expense of the latest treatments is a major cost driver for the PBS. Recent PBS listings include medicines with a cost per patient per year of up to $110,000 for the treatment of melanoma; around $38,000 for advanced breast cancer; $27,000 for prostate cancer; and up to $17,000 for macular degeneration. As more high cost medicines are listed, and more patients require access to these treatments, the cost to taxpayers will increase.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">By asking consumers to share in that cost, we can build a sustainable PBS that can continue to make otherwise prohibitively expensive treatments affordable for all Australians.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Importantly, this measure will also help to support future development of the types of innovative medicines people are seeking today. We will always be looking to prevent and treat illness and manage conditions that challenge us now.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">And our medical researchers have led the way, from Howard Florey to Sir Gustav Nossal and from Fiona Stanley to Ian Frazer. Australians have, through research and innovation, saved millions of lives, not just here but around the world.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Savings will contribute to the $20 billion capital protected Medical Research Future Fund. When fully mature, it will add $1 billion to the resources available for medical research every year and for generations to come. The fund will provide more opportunities for world class Australian researchers to undertake basic and applied research and to test their results in clinical trials in this country. This investment is a huge step forward for Australia and will bring considerable health and economic benefits to our nation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The changes in this Bill will strengthen the PBS while preserving all the features that make it such a valued part of Australia's health system.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">SOCIAL SECURITY LEGISLATION AMENDMENT (STRONGER PENALTIES FOR SERIOUS FAILURES) BILL 2014</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Today I introduce the Social Security Legislation Amendment (Stronger Penalties for Serious Failures) Bill 2014 to strengthen the job seeker compliance framework.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It has long been a feature of our welfare system that job seekers in receipt of income support are asked to do certain activities in return for that taxpayer-funded benefit.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This includes actively looking for work, undertaking activities to improve their job prospects and taking up a suitable job offer.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Coalition Government firmly believes in the importance of this mutual obligation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Our recent Budget contained a number of measures to strengthen the mutual obligation and job seeker compliance frameworks.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill I present today gives effect to the Budget measure to tighten the rules for job seekers who refuse a job, or persistently fail to meet their requirements.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill will help to restore the integrity of our welfare system and ensure that available resources are used efficiently and effectively.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Coalition understands that most job seekers in receipt of income support do the right thing by the taxpayer.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Most job seekers want to work and make the effort to find and keep a job.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">However, there are some job seekers who do not meet their mutual obligation requirements and are abusing the system.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The former Labor Government encouraged this poor behaviour by weakening the rules regarding the application of penalties for serious failures.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Serious failures include refusing a job or persistent non-compliance in meeting participation requirements.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Currently, a non-payment period of eight weeks may be applied in cases of a serious failure.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">However, the changes introduced by Labor allowed people to waive the penalties for a serious failure simply by doing additional activities, such as more intensive job search.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In 2012-13, there were 1,718 serious failures for refusing a job and of these, the penalty was waived in 68 per cent of cases.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In that same year, there were 25,286 serious failures for repeated non-compliance and of these, the penalty was waived in 73 per cent of cases.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">And of those waived, nearly one-third were for a job seeker's second or third episode of non-compliance.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">These penalties were waived not because the job seekers were vulnerable or the jobs were unsuitable, but simply because the job seeker elected to do an intensive activity instead.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Coalition believes that the changes introduced by Labor have undermined the integrity of the job seeker compliance system.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The ability to continually waive the penalty means that job seekers who commit a serious failure can avoid the financial consequences of their actions, and continue to receive income support, despite their poor behaviour.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This is not right.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It is important there are stronger deterrents in our system for those job seekers who abuse the system.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">As I said, most job seekers do the right thing but some job seekers deliberately choose to avoid their responsibilities.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill will ensure that the existing financial penalties for more serious failures are applied more rigorously and in keeping with community expectations.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government does not believe it is appropriate for a job seeker to refuse a suitable job and remain on welfare.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Anyone in receipt of a taxpayer-funded income support payment should be prepared to accept any legitimate, suitable work that they are capable of doing.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill will ensure that all job seekers who refuse an offer of suitable work - or fail to accept a suitable job - are required to serve their eight week non-payment period.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Job seekers in these cases will not be permitted to have their penalty waived through participation in intensive activities.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It will remain the case that job seekers will not be forced to take work that is clearly beyond their work capacity and that individual circumstances, such homelessness, will still be taken into account.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Some job seekers also fail to meet expectations with regard to participating in activities designed to improve their job prospects, such as meeting with their employment service providers or participating in activities.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Where a person is persistently and wilfully non-compliant in meeting these requirements then a non-payment penalty of eight weeks may be applied.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Unfortunately, the changes introduced by Labor also allowed this penalty to be waived through participation in intensive activities.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This means that there is now no meaningful consequence for people who are repeatedly non-compliant.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The absence of a real financial penalty for this group of</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">job seekers means that people have no real incentive to change their behaviour for the better.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill limits the number of times a job seeker may have the penalty for persistent non-compliance waived.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In the future, job seekers will only be allowed to have this penalty waived once through participation in an intensive activity.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This is consistent with the original intent of the waiver provisions which was to encourage job seekers to re-engage with their employment services provider and resume their participation activities.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">By limiting this waiver to one occasion only, job seekers will be provided with a clearer incentive to fully meet their participation requirements into the future.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Conclusion</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government knows that there is little tolerance in the broader community for job seekers who repeatedly flout the rules.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Stakeholders, including social welfare groups, have been clear in their dealings with me that resources must be directed to those job seekers who do the right thing.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">There are simply not enough resources to allow money to be provided to those job seekers who are not prepared to help themselves.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The changes I have outlined today will save $20.5 million over five years.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This is money that is better spent on repairing Labor's Budget mess and meeting other priorities.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The changes in this Bill are only targeted at that cohort of job seekers who refuse a suitable job without reasonable grounds and those who are wilfully and persistently non-compliant.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Those job seekers who do the right thing have nothing to worry about.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I trust that that those opposite will support this Bill.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">After all, it was the Member for Adelaide, as Minister for Employment Participation, who said:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">"A strengthening of the compliance system will mean that more job seekers are actively engaging in work experience activities, in training and in participation programs, so that they can find and keep a decent job…"</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This is exactly what our Bill seeks to achieve: more job seekers meeting their mutual obligation requirements and moving from welfare to work.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill will assist the Government to ensure the integrity of our income support system by ensuring that the penalties for serious failures are applied more rigorously.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill underscores this Government's commitment to reinvigorating mutual obligation, consistent with taxpayer expectations.</para></quote>
<para>Ordered that further consideration of the second reading of these bills be adjourned to the first sitting day of the next period of sittings, in accordance with standing order 111.</para>
<para>Ordered that the bills be listed on the <inline font-style="italic">Notice Paper</inline> as separate orders of the day.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Asset Recycling Fund Bill 2014, Asset Recycling Fund (Consequential Amendments) Bill 2014</title>
          <page.no>5338</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" style="" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" background="">
            <p>
              <a type="Bill" href="r5255">
                <p style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;" class="HPS-SubDebate">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Asset Recycling Fund Bill 2014</span>
                </p>
              </a>
            </p>
            <a type="Bill" href="r5256">
              <p style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;" class="HPS-SubDebate">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Asset Recycling Fund (Consequential Amendments) Bill 2014</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>In Committee</title>
            <page.no>5338</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:49</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The CHAIRMAN</name>
    <name.id>00AOP</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The committee is considering the Asset Recycling Fund Bill 2014 and a related bill as amended. The question now is that subclause 13(2) and subclauses 34(4) to (6) of the Asset Recycling Fund Bill 2014 stand as printed.</para>
<para> </para>
<para> </para>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The committee divided. [15:54]<br />(The Chairman—Senator Marshall)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>31</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Back, CJ</name>
                  <name>Bernardi, C</name>
                  <name>Birmingham, SJ</name>
                  <name>Bushby, DC (teller)</name>
                  <name>Canavan, M.J.</name>
                  <name>Cash, MC</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                  <name>Cormann, M</name>
                  <name>Day, R.J.</name>
                  <name>Edwards, S</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, DJ</name>
                  <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                  <name>Fifield, MP</name>
                  <name>Heffernan, W</name>
                  <name>Johnston, D</name>
                  <name>Leyonhjelm, DE</name>
                  <name>Macdonald, ID</name>
                  <name>Mason, B</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                  <name>Nash, F</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, B</name>
                  <name>Parry, S</name>
                  <name>Payne, MA</name>
                  <name>Reynolds, L</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A</name>
                  <name>Ryan, SM</name>
                  <name>Scullion, NG</name>
                  <name>Seselja, Z</name>
                  <name>Sinodinos, A</name>
                  <name>Williams, JR</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>36</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Bilyk, CL</name>
                  <name>Brown, CL</name>
                  <name>Bullock, J.W.</name>
                  <name>Cameron, DN</name>
                  <name>Carr, KJ</name>
                  <name>Collins, JMA</name>
                  <name>Dastyari, S</name>
                  <name>Di Natale, R</name>
                  <name>Faulkner, J</name>
                  <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                  <name>Ketter, CR</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J</name>
                  <name>Lazarus, GP</name>
                  <name>Lines, S</name>
                  <name>Ludlam, S</name>
                  <name>Ludwig, JW</name>
                  <name>Lundy, KA</name>
                  <name>Marshall, GM</name>
                  <name>McEwen, A (teller)</name>
                  <name>McLucas, J</name>
                  <name>Moore, CM</name>
                  <name>Muir, R</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, DM</name>
                  <name>Peris, N</name>
                  <name>Polley, H</name>
                  <name>Rhiannon, L</name>
                  <name>Rice, J</name>
                  <name>Siewert, R</name>
                  <name>Singh, LM</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, AE</name>
                  <name>Wang, Z</name>
                  <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                  <name>Wright, PL</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>4</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Abetz, E</name>
                  <name>Xenophon, N</name>
                  <name>Brandis, GH</name>
                  <name>Milne, C</name>
                  <name>Ronaldson, M</name>
                  <name>Wong, P</name>
                  <name>Smith, D</name>
                  <name>Conroy, S</name>
                </names>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:56</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>These amendments on clauses 18 and 24 on sheet 7486 are being moved together, and items (10) and (13) deliver transparency that is otherwise absent from the Asset Recycling Fund Bill 2014.</para>
<para>The CHAIRMAN: Would you like to seek leave to move them together and then move those amendments?</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to do so.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I move these amendments on sheet 7486 together:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(7) Clause 18, page 17 (after line 23), at the end of subclause (1), add:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Note: See also section 21A.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(10) Page 19 (after line 24), at the end of Subdivision B, add:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">21A Cost benefit analyses to be made public</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">      If a direction is made under subsection 18(1) in relation to a grant for an infrastructure project, the Infrastructure Minister must:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (a) table in each House of the Parliament, within 14 sitting days of that House after the direction is made, a copy of the evaluation by Infrastructure Australia provided to the Minister under section 19; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (b) within 14 days of the direction being made, ensure that the following information about the project is made available on the Infrastructure Department's website:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">      (i) a description of the project;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">      (ii) when the project is to start and is likely to be completed.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(11) Clause 24, page 20 (after line 26), at the end of subclause (1), add:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Note: See also section 28A.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(13) Page 22 (after line 28), at the end of Subdivision C, add:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">28A Cost benefit analyses to be made public</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">      If a direction is made under subsection 24(1) for the purposes of making infrastructure payments for an infrastructure project, the Infrastructure Minister must:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (a) table in each House of the Parliament, within 14 sitting days of that House after the direction is made, a copy of the evaluation by Infrastructure Australia provided to the Minister under section 25; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (b) within 14 days of the direction being made, ensure that the following information about the project is made available on the Infrastructure Department's website:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">      (i) a description of the project;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">      (ii) when the project is to start and is likely to be completed.</para></quote>
<para>These amendments are identical and require the infrastructure minister to make public the supporting information behind the project that is approved for a grant or payment. The infrastructure minister will be required to table the Infrastructure Australia evaluation in both houses of parliament within 14 days of approval. Further details of the project will also be required to be posted on the department's website. Consistent with Labor's approach in government and in other bills before the parliament, through these amendments Labor will ensure that the evidence before the minister's funding decisions is open to the public. This includes cost-benefit analysis. This is consistent with concerns raised by many stakeholders. It is also consistent with coalition policy. Items (7) and (11) are consequential references.</para>
<para>If there is one thing that has been argued consistently for some years, that is the need for openness and accountability in relation to big infrastructure projects. If you look at what is happening with WestConnex at the moment in New South Wales, you will see that decisions have been made to go ahead with a multibillion-dollar project without any Infrastructure Australia overview or any Infrastructure Australia agreement, and with no cost-benefit analysis in place. So this is to deal with that. This is to make sure that the public are getting value for money. This is to make sure that there is openness in the infrastructure development of this country. It is absolutely essential that these amendments ensure that what is being done is in the national interest—not in the interests of the National Party and not in the interests of the Liberal Party, but in the interests of the nation. These are important amendments and go a long way to ensuring that we have transparency and accountability.</para>
<para>Given that it is coalition policy, I assume the coalition government will be supporting these amendments. These are important amendments that the public need to have in place to ensure that the public purse is well looked after, to ensure that there is no pork-barrelling going on and to ensure that experts deal with these issues and we do not do as we are doing in New South Wales at the moment, and that is career forward with a project like WestConnex which has no clear benefit, no analysis of the problems, does not look at how the problems can be dealt with and has no cost-benefit analysis.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:00</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LUDLAM</name>
    <name.id>I07</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr Chairman, could you or Senator Cameron make clear which amendments Senator Cameron has batched together. The Australian Greens support the principle in the amendments that the Labor Party have brought forward that have been mysteriously omitted from the government's original bill. Senators will note that these amendments are entirely consistent with amendments we moved and successfully passed back to the other place a couple of weeks ago when we were debating Infrastructure Australia.</para>
<para>If provisions like these had been law before the last budget, it might have been possible to save the Commonwealth government from the expensive and embarrassing commitment of $925 million for the doomed Roe Highway extension in the southern suburbs of Perth and gargantuan budget commitments like that, particularly if they are screeching at every press conference that there is a budget emergency and that they cannot waste a cent of taxpayers' money, to these kinds of foolhardy projects that are very strongly opposed—and Senator Cameron named WestConnex and there is the east-west tunnel in Melbourne; they are right across the country. If we had these sorts of sensible provisions for transparency in place before the last budget was tabled we might have saved the government a lot of embarrassment and the taxpayer a lot of money. I am happy to support these amendments.</para>
<para>The CHAIRMAN: Senator Cameron, can you confirm which ones you moved.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Cameron</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>It was amendments (7), (10), (11) and (13) on sheet 7486 to the Asset Recycling Fund Bill 2014.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:02</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CORMANN</name>
    <name.id>HDA</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The government does not support these amendments. These amendments only add red tape with no additional benefit and they risk delaying the delivery of critical infrastructure that will enhance the long-term productive capacity of the economy. The opposition's amendments are about increasing duplication and are disruptive of parliamentary processes. They stand in the way of the government building a stronger, more prosperous economy and investing in new infrastructure.</para>
<para>The CHAIRMAN: The question is that opposition amendments (7), (10), (11) and (13) be agreed to.</para>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The committee divided. [16:07]<br />(The Chairman—Senator Marshall)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>36</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Bilyk, CL</name>
                  <name>Brown, CL</name>
                  <name>Bullock, J.W.</name>
                  <name>Cameron, DN</name>
                  <name>Carr, KJ</name>
                  <name>Dastyari, S</name>
                  <name>Di Natale, R</name>
                  <name>Faulkner, J</name>
                  <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                  <name>Ketter, CR</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J</name>
                  <name>Lazarus, GP</name>
                  <name>Leyonhjelm, DE</name>
                  <name>Lines, S</name>
                  <name>Ludlam, S</name>
                  <name>Ludwig, JW</name>
                  <name>Lundy, KA</name>
                  <name>Marshall, GM</name>
                  <name>McEwen, A</name>
                  <name>McLucas, J</name>
                  <name>Milne, C</name>
                  <name>Moore, CM</name>
                  <name>Muir, R</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, DM</name>
                  <name>Peris, N</name>
                  <name>Polley, H</name>
                  <name>Rhiannon, L</name>
                  <name>Rice, J</name>
                  <name>Siewert, R</name>
                  <name>Singh, LM</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, AE (teller)</name>
                  <name>Wang, Z</name>
                  <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                  <name>Wright, PL</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>29</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Back, CJ</name>
                  <name>Bernardi, C</name>
                  <name>Birmingham, SJ</name>
                  <name>Bushby, DC</name>
                  <name>Canavan, M.J.</name>
                  <name>Cash, MC</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                  <name>Cormann, M</name>
                  <name>Day, R.J.</name>
                  <name>Edwards, S</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, DJ (teller)</name>
                  <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                  <name>Fifield, MP</name>
                  <name>Heffernan, W</name>
                  <name>Johnston, D</name>
                  <name>Macdonald, ID</name>
                  <name>Mason, B</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                  <name>Nash, F</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, B</name>
                  <name>Parry, S</name>
                  <name>Payne, MA</name>
                  <name>Ronaldson, M</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A</name>
                  <name>Ryan, SM</name>
                  <name>Seselja, Z</name>
                  <name>Sinodinos, A</name>
                  <name>Williams, JR</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>5</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Collins, JMA</name>
                  <name>Abetz, E</name>
                  <name>Conroy, SM</name>
                  <name>Reynolds, L</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                  <name>Brandis, GH</name>
                  <name>Wong, P</name>
                  <name>Smith, D</name>
                  <name>Xenophon, N</name>
                  <name>Scullion, N</name>
                </names>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:09</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>In respect of the Asset Recycling Fund Bill 2014, I move opposition amendment (8) on sheet 7486:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(8) Clause 18, page 18 (lines 5 and 6), omit "Minister who recommended the specification of the grant (see section 19)", substitute "Infrastructure Minister".</para></quote>
<para>This is a very simple amendment but an amendment that is simply common sense—that is, that we consolidate infrastructure approvals with the Minister for Infrastructure. There should not be too much of an argument on this. It simply says that infrastructure approvals are with the minister.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:10</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LUDLAM</name>
    <name.id>I07</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>If the government were to put it to us that this is effectively a drafting error that is being cleaned up, I would accept that. I do not know whether this was intentional or not. It is a common-sense amendment that the Australian Greens will support.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:11</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CORMANN</name>
    <name.id>HDA</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I will be talking to opposition amendments (8), (9) and (12) together, and I thought that Senator Cameron might want to seek leave to deal with them together. It is up to him.</para>
<para>The CHAIRMAN: No, that cannot occur.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CORMANN</name>
    <name.id>HDA</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Okay. These amendments only add red tape with no additional benefit. This is an unnecessary additional process which will mean the states would have no confidence that the Commonwealth would make payments in accordance with already signed national partnership agreements. The government is confident that the current bill has robust accountability and governance arrangements. The coalition has already committed to Infrastructure Australia undertaking an assessment of cost-benefit analyses for our major investment decisions that receive Commonwealth funding of over $100 million. This includes the government's budget commitments. State governments will undertake their own cost-benefit assessments as part of decision-making processes to privatise assets and reinvest in new infrastructure. These are rightly matters for the states. It makes no sense to duplicate cost-benefit processes at a federal level. The proposal to use disallowance mechanisms against payments to the states would block or delay funding from the Asset Recycling Fund for critical infrastructure. This would dilute the incentives of the asset recycling initiative and set a precedent which would have serious impacts on Commonwealth-state relations. The Commonwealth government will assess whether asset sales and infrastructure projects are eligible for incentive payments based on the criteria in the national partnership agreement. These criteria were agreed by all state premiers and include that a clear net positive benefit can be demonstrated and that projects will enhance long-term productive capacity of the economy.</para>
<para>The CHAIRMAN: The question is that opposition amendment (8) on sheet 7486 be agreed to.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The committee divided. [16:17]<br />(The Chairman—Senator Marshall)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>36</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Bilyk, CL</name>
                  <name>Brown, CL</name>
                  <name>Bullock, J.W.</name>
                  <name>Cameron, DN</name>
                  <name>Carr, KJ</name>
                  <name>Dastyari, S</name>
                  <name>Di Natale, R</name>
                  <name>Faulkner, J</name>
                  <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                  <name>Ketter, CR</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J</name>
                  <name>Lazarus, GP</name>
                  <name>Leyonhjelm, DE</name>
                  <name>Lines, S</name>
                  <name>Ludlam, S</name>
                  <name>Ludwig, JW</name>
                  <name>Lundy, KA</name>
                  <name>Marshall, GM</name>
                  <name>McEwen, A</name>
                  <name>McLucas, J</name>
                  <name>Milne, C</name>
                  <name>Moore, CM</name>
                  <name>Muir, R</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, DM</name>
                  <name>Peris, N</name>
                  <name>Polley, H</name>
                  <name>Rhiannon, L</name>
                  <name>Rice, J</name>
                  <name>Siewert, R</name>
                  <name>Singh, LM</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, AE (teller)</name>
                  <name>Wang, Z</name>
                  <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                  <name>Wright, PL</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>29</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Back, CJ</name>
                  <name>Bernardi, C</name>
                  <name>Birmingham, SJ</name>
                  <name>Bushby, DC</name>
                  <name>Canavan, M.J.</name>
                  <name>Cash, MC</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                  <name>Cormann, M</name>
                  <name>Day, R.J.</name>
                  <name>Edwards, S</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, DJ (teller)</name>
                  <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                  <name>Fifield, MP</name>
                  <name>Heffernan, W</name>
                  <name>Johnston, D</name>
                  <name>Macdonald, ID</name>
                  <name>Mason, B</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                  <name>Nash, F</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, B</name>
                  <name>Parry, S</name>
                  <name>Payne, MA</name>
                  <name>Ronaldson, M</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A</name>
                  <name>Ryan, SM</name>
                  <name>Seselja, Z</name>
                  <name>Sinodinos, A</name>
                  <name>Williams, JR</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>5</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Collins, JMA</name>
                  <name>Abetz, E</name>
                  <name>Conroy, SM</name>
                  <name>Reynolds, L</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                  <name>Brandis, GH</name>
                  <name>Wong, P</name>
                  <name>Smith, D</name>
                  <name>Xenophon, N</name>
                  <name>Scullion, N</name>
                </names>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:19</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to have amendment (9) on sheet 7486 and amendment (12) on sheet 7486 joined for this amendment.</para>
<para>The CHAIRMAN: To be honest, it would be easier for me to leave it the way it is, because both of those amendments are being sought to be amended and it would be neater if we could do them in separate batches. But I am in the hands of the committee.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:20</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LEYONHJELM</name>
    <name.id>111206</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Both of those are subject to amendments by me and I would be happy for them to be considered together, because the amendments relate essentially to the same thing.</para>
<para>The CHAIRMAN: As long as we get leave for you to move your amendments to the amendments together as well. Is leave granted?</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:22</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>In relation to the Asset Recycling Fund Bill 2014, I move opposition amendments (9) and (12) on sheet 7486 together:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(9) Clause 19, page 18 (lines 7 to 16), omit the clause, substitute:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">19 Recommendations about grants payments</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) The Finance Minister must not make a direction under subsection 18(1) in relation to a grant for an infrastructure project unless the Infrastructure Minister has recommended that a direction be made.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) The Infrastructure Minister must not make a recommendation under subsection (1) in relation to a grant for an infrastructure project if:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (a) capital expenditure on the project is $100 million or more; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (b) Infrastructure Australia has not done both of the following:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">      (i) given the Minister an evaluation of the project (see subsection (3));</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">      (ii) advised that there are likely to be productivity gains from the project.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) Infrastructure Australia's evaluation of an infrastructure project mentioned in subsection (2) must:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (a) contain a cost benefit analysis of the project, including an estimate of the productivity gains from the project; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (b) set out any other matter that Infrastructure Australia considers relevant to the project.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(4) The Infrastructure Minister must not make a recommendation under subsection (1) in relation to a grant for an infrastructure project if:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (a) the grant is for expenditure incurred under the National Partnership Agreement on Asset Recycling; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (b) the grant does not relate to a transaction that the Treasurer has approved by legislative instrument.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(5) An approval under paragraph (4)(b) must specify the State-owned assets, or the parts of State-owned assets, to the sale of which the transaction relates.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(12) Clause 25, page 21 (lines 4 to 7), omit the clause, substitute:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">25 Recommendations about payments</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) The Finance Minister must not make a direction under subsection 24(1) for the purposes of making infrastructure payments for an infrastructure project unless the Infrastructure Minister has recommended that a direction be made.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) The Infrastructure Minister must not make a recommendation under subsection (1) in relation to infrastructure payments for an infrastructure project if:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (a) capital expenditure on the project is $100 million or more; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (b) Infrastructure Australia has not done both of the following:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">      (i) given the Minister an evaluation of the project (see subsection (3)); and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">      (ii) advised that there are likely to be productivity gains from the project.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) Infrastructure Australia's evaluation of an infrastructure project mentioned in subsection (2) must:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (a) contain a cost benefit analysis of the project, including an estimate of the productivity gains from the project; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (b) set out any other matter that Infrastructure Australia considers relevant to the project.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(4) The Infrastructure Minister must not make a recommendation under subsection (1) in relation to infrastructure payments for an infrastructure project if:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (a) the payments are for expenditure incurred under the National Partnership Agreement on Asset Recycling; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (b) the payments do not relate to a transaction that the Treasurer has approved by legislative instrument.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(5) An approval under paragraph (4)(b) must specify the State-owned assets, or the parts of State-owned assets, to the sale of which the transaction relates.</para></quote>
<para>Amendment (9) and amendment (12) are critical amendments that place proper processes around approvals given to projects by the infrastructure minister. These are preconditions to grants or payments from the Asset Recycling Fund, including under the Asset Recycling Initiative. That initiative proposes a Commonwealth contribution to a state or territory totalling 15 per cent of the reinvested proceeds from a privatisation. The bill provides no criteria for deciding how scarce Commonwealth funds will be prioritised to competing projects. Labor's amendment proposes to fix that. As the Parliamentary Library has noted in its <inline font-style="italic">Bills Digest</inline>, the strong selection criteria that Labor applied under the Building Australia Fund has not been replicated in this bill. As this bill proposes to empty out the BAF, these amendments will retain independent and transparent approval processes around project selection by requiring Infrastructure Australia to green-light projects of over $100 million in value. Good governance follows the money.</para>
<para>These amendments are also consistent with the Treasurer's intent to recycle privatisation proceeds into productivity-enhancing infrastructure. They are consistent with Labor's amendments to the Infrastructure Australia Amendment Bill and those we have moved for the Land Transport Infrastructure Amendment Bill. These amendments are also consistent with the broad call for independence and transparency of project advice from important stakeholders, such as the Business Council of Australia, Infrastructure Partnerships Australia, the Urban Development Institute, the Bus Industry Confederation, and the Tourism and Transport Forum. These amendments align with the Productivity Commission's recent finding in its interim report on funding of public infrastructure.</para>
<para>This is one of the Productivity Commission's findings I agree with. It says:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The overriding message of this draft report is the need for a comprehensive overhaul of processes in the assessment and development of public infrastructure projects.</para></quote>
<para>In the case of either a grant, item (3), or a payment, item (6), to a state, territory or other entity in respect of a project greater than $100 million in value, the infrastructure minister must first have received an evaluation of the project from Infrastructure Australia and advice from it that the project is likely to produce productivity gains. IA's evaluation must include a cost-benefit analysis of that project.</para>
<para>Additionally, for a project involving the privatisation of a state or territory owned asset and recycling of the proceeds into another asset, the infrastructure minister cannot recommend a project unless the Treasurer has approved the privatisation transaction as eligible for a Commonwealth contribution from the asset recycling fund. The mechanism for this approval will be via a disallowable instrument for each transaction. This proposed change reflects Labor's view that there are good and bad privatisations. Labor believes that the Commonwealth should not reward states, for instance, for selling assets in a fire sale or without adequate regulatory protections.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:25</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LEYONHJELM</name>
    <name.id>111206</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I move amendments (1) and (2) on sheet 7532 together:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Amendment (9), subclauses 19(4) and (5), omit the subclauses.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) Amendment (12), subclauses 25(4) and (5), omit the subclauses.</para></quote>
<para>The effect of these two provisions, (9) and (12), in Senator Cameron's amendment on sheet 7486, is to put into legislation a requirement for evaluation of infrastructure projects by Infrastructure Australia—projects of $100 million or more that are funded from the asset recycling fund. That evaluation includes, in particular, cost-benefit analysis. I support that provision.</para>
<para>The agreement between the Commonwealth and the states already agrees that cost-benefit analysis be done, and both sides of politics have a view that Infrastructure Australia is relatively independent. That is a necessary condition, I think, for projects of $100 million or more. We are talking about taxpayers' money here. I have heard the government talk many times about the NBN and the absence of a cost-benefit analysis. It is very important that investments of this size have cost-benefit analysis. However, there is also a provision for Commonwealth funding for projects under the asset recycling fund to require approval by legislative instrument. I oppose this provision as funded projects should not be limited to projects approved by the Senate. That unnecessarily politicises it. My argument is that a cost-benefit analysis is required. I am concerned that, without that, the potential for pork-barrelling exists. Bringing it back to the Senate for approval is unnecessary politicisation.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:27</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LUDLAM</name>
    <name.id>I07</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I might speak to both of Senator Leyonhjelm's amendments since they have been put as amendments to Senator Cameron's amendments. I will indicate the Australian Greens position on them both at the same time, just to save a bit of time. With respect to Senator Leyonhjelm's acknowledgement that there needs to be transparency, and therefore agreeing with some of what Senator Cameron has produced, we strongly agree that there needs to be a much greater degree of transparency, but the Australian Greens go further. When we talk about transparency, it is not simply about tabling inadequate documents; it is about giving this chamber the opportunity to review some of those decisions, which come at enormous cost to taxpayers. Quite frankly, this is an expression, in my view, of distrust in the way that this government is handling infrastructure disbursements and the way that the former Howard government handled them—basically parachuting vast—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Ian Macdonald</name>
    <name.id>YW4</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>But the Gillard government was fine.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LUDLAM</name>
    <name.id>I07</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Macdonald, that is a useful interjection. Ms Gillard and Prime Minister Rudd introduced Infrastructure Australia to prevent you and your colleagues, through you, Chair—</para>
<para>Honourable senators interjecting—</para>
<para>The CHAIRMAN: Order! I would ask senators not to interject and I would ask you, Senator Ludlam, to address your remarks through me.</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LUDLAM</name>
    <name.id>I07</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>People have been asking Senator Macdonald not to interject for hundreds of years!</para>
<para>The CHAIRMAN: Yes, I have drawn his attention to that too. You have the call, Senator Ludlam.</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LUDLAM</name>
    <name.id>I07</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Best of luck with that! That, effectively, Infrastructure Australia place some of these investment decisions at arm's length from politics. We are now seeing, effectively, the reversal of that policy—an attempt to gut Infrastructure Australia's independence that was rebuffed, amended and returned to the House of Representatives by this place in a quite collaborative way. I strongly support these amendments. We will not be supporting the LDP amendments because, effectively, it takes the teeth out of the transparency. It is not good enough to come in here and just put a document on the table, because people talk all sorts of rubbish about benefit-cost ratios and so on. These amendments need teeth. So we will be opposing the LDP amendments. We will be supporting the opposition amendments so that this parliament does get the final say on investment decisions of this scope.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:29</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CORMANN</name>
    <name.id>HDA</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I have already indicated that we did not support the underlying opposition amendments because we do not believe that it is appropriate in the context of these projects to give parliament the authority to disallow investments in infrastructure because of the uncertainty it creates in the context of Commonwealth-state relations around very important and significant infrastructure projects.</para>
<para>I would just say to Senator Leyonhjelm that if he is under the impression that there would be no cost-benefit analysis undertaken if Labor's amendment does not get up, that is not right. There is actually a cost-benefit analysis that is taking place and it appropriately takes place at the state level. The Labor Party amendment is seeking to double up by essentially having a cost-benefit analysis at the state level and then another cost-benefit analysis at the federal level. We think that is unnecessarily doubling up. It seeks to usurp the responsibility of the states in relation to these sorts of projects, which is why we appreciate the intent of these amendments to the amendments, put forward by Senator Leyonhjelm. They would still leave in place opposition changes that would add to project approval times and administrative overheads. I might just flag that, when this bill goes back to the House of Representatives the government will not be in a position to accept the bill, as it is being amended by the Senate.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:31</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Labor opposes these amendments. The amendments effectively make this parliament indifferent to the assets sold by states in order to access the 15 per cent Commonwealth privatisation incentive. It does so by removing the oversight of the House of Representatives and the Senate proposed in Labor's amendment. Labor believes it is appropriate and an important protection to allow the parliament to scrutinise asset sales on a case-by-case basis before taxpayers' money is spent. Many state-owned assets should not be sold. Given that this then leads to an argument about what should replace these state-owned assets, you look at what is happening in New South Wales now. You see that there was simply an announcement by the coalition that WestConnex would be built. There has been no attempt to have any transparency with respect to the cost-benefit analysis on WestConnex. The more people look at what is happening with WestConnex in New South Wales and in Sydney, the more they are concerned that this was simply a case of trying to deal with an election promise from the state government and the federal government. At the last estimates hearings, I asked a specific question of the department: had a cost-benefit analysis been undertaken in relation to WestConnex? They said no and that it was an election promise.</para>
<para>So if anyone in here thinks that we should just simply allow state or federal governments to deliver on election promises without a proper cost-benefit analysis and proper scrutiny by this parliament, they are not acting in the interests of the parliament, the nation or proper infrastructure builds in this country.</para>
<para>We are sick and tired of the pork-barrelling that went on under the Liberal coalition government when they were last in power. There was no analysis as to what should be done. Billions of dollars were spent on pork-barrelling, when Engineers Australia, AiG and the Business Council of Australia were crying out for properly analysed infrastructure deals that would have improved the productivity performance of this nation.</para>
<para>It is so important to ensure that these amendments go through as they stand and not as proposed by Senator Leyonhjelm. This will simply water down our overview, oversight and capacity to act in the national interest.</para>
<para>As you have seen in the past, many times state governments do not act in the national interest, the state interest or the constituents' interests. We want clear and unequivocal overview that gives us an opportunity to test not only the cost-benefit analysis but whether this is a pork-barrelling initiative or an initiative that is in the national interest. If you are interested in the national interest, you will oppose Senator Leyonhjelm's amendments.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:35</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator IAN MACDONALD</name>
    <name.id>YW4</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I would be failing in my duty as a senator for the state of Queensland or indeed as a senator at all if I let the absolute and abject hypocrisy that you have heard from the last two speakers go unchallenged. Could I just remind those who were here—and for those who were not here, can I tell them—of the fact that after the 2010 election the Labor government, with the full support of the Greens political party, did pork barrel after pork barrel after pork barrel and went nowhere near Infrastructure Australia, let alone this parliament. They did not go anywhere near Infrastructure Australia. What hypocrisy of the last two speakers, saying that we need to do this!</para>
<para>I have come into this debate recently, but I think the coalition should support Senator Leyonhjelm's amendment in the hope that Senator Cameron's amendments do get up, because Senator Cameron's amendments are bad but they would be better if Senator Leyonhjelm's amendment to the amendment were carried so that you did not have to bring it back and have 76 senators deciding on which assets should be sold around Australia. It is just crazy.</para>
<para>In this rare instance I will do what the majority of our side is going to do, but I would urge them to think about Senator Leyonhjelm's argument—</para>
<para>Opposition senators interjecting—</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator IAN MACDONALD</name>
    <name.id>YW4</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>You may well laugh. The Greens political party would never exercise a free vote on anything. Of course, as for the Labor Party senators, they know that, if they did that, they would be out of the Labor Party the very next day. That is one of the reasons I cherish my membership of the Liberal Party.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Kim Carr</name>
    <name.id>AW5</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>You're a great vote winner for Labor!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator IAN MACDONALD</name>
    <name.id>YW4</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator, my result at the last election might tell you something different. Senator McLucas's team struggled to get two quotas. The team I led, the Liberal National Party, achieved three quotas in its own right and did better than any other state coalition group in the country.</para>
<para>Opposition senators interjecting—</para>
<para>The CHAIRMAN: Senator Macdonald, please resume your seat for a moment. The Senate should come to order. I would like people to cease interjecting, and I remind the Senate of the question before the chair. Senator Macdonald.</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator IAN MACDONALD</name>
    <name.id>YW4</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I personally think that Senator Leyonhjelm's amendments are good amendments—in the expectation that Senator Cameron's amendments might get up. I will be voting against Senator Cameron's amendments because they are the typical sort of rubbish and hypocrisy you get from the Labor Party. But can I just return to the two previous speakers. Immediately after the 2007 and 2010 elections, the Labor Party just pork barrelled and pork barrelled and pork barrelled. When challenged they said, 'We promised this in the election. That's why we're not sending it to Infrastructure Australia.' But to hear Senator Cameron and Senator Ludlam you would think that they sent anything to Infrastructure Australia or indeed to anyone else—except the people they were paying off. For Australia's biggest ever infrastructure project, the National Broadband Network, there was no cost-benefit analysis, no Infrastructure Australia, no anything. The gentleman who used to be in charge of Infrastructure Australia—I thought he was a very good man, and I am sorry he left the organisation—used to say time and time again at estimates: 'Yes, the NBN should have come to us. It's the biggest infrastructure project in Australia but we were specifically excluded from it.'</para>
<para>There is no point in rehashing old battles today except to say the abject hypocrisy of the two previous speakers needs to be yet again highlighted. But I would not be doing my job as a senator for Queensland if I did not expose that hypocrisy and indicate that I believe that the government in the state that I represent, Queensland—and I could say the same for the state governments of New South Wales, Victoria, Tasmania and Western Australia—will responsibly—</para>
<para class="italic">Senator Lines interjecting—</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator IAN MACDONALD</name>
    <name.id>YW4</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>How would you know? I understand that you are from Sydney and you were parachuted into Western Australia. So what would you know about Western Australia?</para>
<para>The CHAIRMAN: Senator Macdonald, I would ask you to address your remarks through the chair and ignore the interjections. And I would ask those interjecting to cease interjecting.</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator IAN MACDONALD</name>
    <name.id>YW4</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I and most of my Senate colleagues have confidence in our state governments to deal with assets that are owned by the states and by the people of those states—through their taxes and through the governments they elect—without it having to come back to this chamber and have the likes of, with all due respect, Senator Cameron deciding whether it is a good idea for my state to sell something. I do not think Senator Cameron has ever even been to Queensland. What would he know about the decisions and the relevance of the sale of assets in my state?</para>
<para>The CHAIRMAN: The question is that amendments (1) and (2) on sheet 7532, which amend amendments (9) and (12) on sheet 7486, be agreed to.</para>
<para>Question negatived.</para>
<para>The CHAIRMAN: The question now is that amendments (9) and (12) on sheet 7486 be agreed to.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:43</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LUDLAM</name>
    <name.id>I07</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>In respect of the Asset Recycling Fund Bill 2014, I move Australian Greens amendment (3) on sheet 7487 revised:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(3) Page 23 (after line 10), after Division 4, insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Division 4A—State-owned essential services</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">29A State-owned essential services</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">      A grant or payment mentioned in this Part must not relate to a transaction that relates to the sale of State-owned assets that provide essential services.</para></quote>
<para>This amendment effectively carves out essential services as being prohibited from the privatisation bender that the coalition appears to be embarking on. At the very least, with some of the accountability measures that the Greens, the Palmer United Party and other cross benchers have supported, we have raised the bar for some of the proposed privatisations that this government seems to be so obsessed with. I acknowledged in my contributions at the outset that we would not be supporting the bill. But we believe that, if the bill is to become law, some things should simply be off the table.</para>
<para>The amendment states:</para>
<quote><para class="block">A grant or payment mentioned in this Part must not relate to a transaction that relates to the sale of State-owned assets that provide essential services.</para></quote>
<para>Under the Constitution, the states have responsibility for water, electricity, gas and other utilities. These are things that the private sector cannot easily provide. I have already outlined why the Greens and countless economists do not support the privatisation of state owned assets, particularly assets that provide essential services, and that is that they effectively have two characteristics: they supply essential goods and services and their core business is a natural monopoly.</para>
<para>One of the examples—which I think actually had cross-party support in the end, after Mr Turnbull, at the time as opposition leader, took the portfolio on from Senator Minchin—was that bringing the natural monopoly aspect of infrastructure, like the NBN, back into public hands is strongly in the public interest and then you let the market in at the retail level. At least the essential services can be accessed by a budget estimates committee and you can interrogate or cross-examine officers of these utilities and there are very clear lines of transparency and accountability. As soon as you privatise things, or even start outsourcing to a significant extent, things start disappearing behind blankets of commercial-in-confidence and you lose the ability to call people before budget estimates committee. In effect, you are giving up an important part of your democracy. When something goes wrong—when the lights go out; when water mains burst; when the file server goes down—what you really want underlying service provision are very clear lines of responsibility in the authority and democratic control and oversight over things such as upgrades and maintenance.</para>
<para>So the Greens, along with the majority of Australians, are completely opposed to handing over essential services—and that includes utilities and emergency services—to private operators. This amendment simply seeks to ensure that, in the event that this bill does pass this parliament, state-owned essential services like power, water, ambulances, firies and so on, are not services that can be privatised through this initiative. Some things should simply be off the table.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:46</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I indicate that the Labor will support this amendment. We have worked collectively with the Greens on this amendment. This amendment seeks to prevent grants of payments under the Asset Recycling Initiative—that is, the 15 per cent initiative in respect of privatisation that are for state assets that provide essential services. By definition, 'essential services' provide the essentials of life. It is most important that transactions involving these assets not be sold in a fire sale atmosphere. In this respect, Labor notes the comments by the ACCC Chairman Mr Rod Sims to the effect that it would be keeping a close eye on state privatisations in the face of this incentive.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:47</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CORMANN</name>
    <name.id>HDA</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The government does not support the amendment to prevent incentives being funded by the sale of essential services. The decision as to what assets to sell to fund new infrastructure is entirely a matter for the states, as it should be. State and territory governments are best placed to decide which infrastructure and services are most efficiently provided by the private sector. The Australian government does not wish to dictate this out of Canberra or believe that it is in a position to do so on an informed basis.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:48</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LUDLAM</name>
    <name.id>I07</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>In respect of the Asset Recycling Fund Bill 2014, I move Australian Greens amendment (4) on sheet 7487 revised:</para>
<quote><para class="block">   (4) Page 24 (after line 12), at the end of Part 2, add:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Division 6—Toll roads</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">30A Toll roads</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">      Financial assistance granted as mentioned in this Part must not be expended on toll roads.</para></quote>
<para>This is a very simple amendment that states the following:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Financial assistance granted as mentioned in this Part must not be expended on toll roads.</para></quote>
<para>Having followed the Abbott government's directive and privatised everything that is not nailed down, state governments cannot then fold the money—effectively the bribery fund established by the Abbott government—to assist the private sector in taking the public good of the road network and privatising it effectively in the form of a toll road.</para>
<para>I mentioned before why it is so dangerous to put natural monopolies or essential services in the hands of entities that are more interested in private profit than public benefit. Toll roads are probably the keystone example of why it is a dopey idea. This is not coming out of some economics textbook; this is lived experience of people across the country. Fortunately, in Western Australia, Senator Cormann and I do not have to worry about finding ourselves on a toll road and not having the proper pass or the proper change or even the offensive idea of something as basic as a road suddenly being put into private hands. That has been kept out of Western Australia—and long may it stay so. Other states have not been quite so fortunate—for example, Sydney's Cross City Tunnel and the Lane Cove Tunnel.</para>
<para>Here are the greatest hits of the Cross City Tunnel. Here is why it is so dumb to privatise or effectively try to toll natural monopoly infrastructure. It does not work. They wrote into the contracts that the government would not construct competing public transport infrastructure. So much for the free market. If you try to privatise a natural monopoly you end up having to do profoundly anticompetitive things for it to remain profitable. So they wrote into the contracts that no-one could over-build a private road with public transport. What a disgrace! No wonder these things are so unpopular.</para>
<para>The traffic authority was forced to abandon its traditional job of servicing the public's need and instead they closed streets around the tunnel and forced traffic underground through the tunnels and the toll gates. Remarkable! That is what you have to do to make a toll road work. Private profit in the public interest can go to hell. The tunnel then went into voluntary administration, and, of course, the owners blamed the government—and then you go straight into litigation. It was a complete disaster. My New South Wales state colleague Mr David Shoebridge MP said at the time:</para>
<quote><para class="block">This is a classic case of a failed public-private partnership which was based on an anti-public transport, an anti-alternative transport model which was never going to be sustainable.</para></quote>
<para>Even if you are not interested in buying into the public transport debate—and you think everyone should always drive everywhere—the idea that you would close alternate roads to force people into a private toll road is, I think you would agree, reasonably offensive.</para>
<para>So let's carve that out and ensure that, in the event that state governments do embark down this path that the Abbott government seems to be forcing them down, we do not end up subsidising private profit in toll roads. I commend this amendment to the chamber.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:51</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Labor will not support this amendment. We are not anti-roads. Road are important for so many communities around this country. Appropriately built roads with appropriate analysis are so important. This amendment seeks to prevent the 15 per cent incentive applying in the case of toll roads. Unlike the government, which stubbornly refuses to fund urban passenger rail projects, and the Greens party, which unreasonably rages against roads, Labor supports the mode of best fit. Labor believes that, if a toll road project stacks up under IA evaluation, it is potentially deserving of support.</para>
<para>One of Labor's amendments requires that major projects are evaluated by Infrastructure Australia as being productivity enhancing, so there should be no prior constraint on the types of new productivity-enhancing major projects that could be supported by the Commonwealth initiative. It is so important in many areas that roads are built. If they are toll roads, they have to go through the appropriate analysis and, if they meet that analysis, then we should give appropriate consideration to them.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:52</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CORMANN</name>
    <name.id>HDA</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The government does not support the amendment to prevent incentive payments being used to fund the construction of toll roads. It is for the states and territories to decide what arrangements they enter into to provide the modern infrastructure of the 21st century that they consider important to their economic growth. State and territory governments are best placed to make decisions about what arrangements for providing services and infrastructure represent the best value for money for those they represent.</para>
<para>The CHAIRMAN: The question is that amendment (4) on sheet 7487 revised be agreed to.</para>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The committee divided. [16:57]<br />(The Chairman—Senator Marshall) </p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>10</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Day, R.J.</name>
                  <name>Di Natale, R</name>
                  <name>Ludlam, S</name>
                  <name>Milne, C</name>
                  <name>Rhiannon, L</name>
                  <name>Rice, J</name>
                  <name>Siewert, R (teller)</name>
                  <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                  <name>Wright, PL</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>43</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Back, CJ</name>
                  <name>Bernardi, C</name>
                  <name>Bilyk, CL</name>
                  <name>Birmingham, SJ</name>
                  <name>Bullock, J.W.</name>
                  <name>Cameron, DN</name>
                  <name>Canavan, M.J.</name>
                  <name>Carr, KJ</name>
                  <name>Cash, MC</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                  <name>Cormann, M</name>
                  <name>Edwards, S</name>
                  <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                  <name>Fifield, MP</name>
                  <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                  <name>Heffernan, W</name>
                  <name>Ketter, CR</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J</name>
                  <name>Lazarus, GP</name>
                  <name>Leyonhjelm, DE</name>
                  <name>Lines, S</name>
                  <name>Ludwig, JW</name>
                  <name>Lundy, KA</name>
                  <name>Macdonald, ID</name>
                  <name>Marshall, GM</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                  <name>McLucas, J</name>
                  <name>Moore, CM</name>
                  <name>Muir, R</name>
                  <name>Nash, F</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, B</name>
                  <name>Peris, N</name>
                  <name>Polley, H</name>
                  <name>Reynolds, L</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A</name>
                  <name>Ryan, SM</name>
                  <name>Seselja, Z</name>
                  <name>Sinodinos, A</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, AE (teller)</name>
                  <name>Wang, Z</name>
                  <name>Williams, JR</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names></names>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived. </p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:01</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LUDLAM</name>
    <name.id>I07</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—In respect of the Asset Recycling Fund Bill 2014, I move Greens amendments (1) and (2) on sheet 7487 revised:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Title, page 1 (line 1), before "establish the Asset Recycling Fund", insert "encourage privatisation and".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) Clause 1, page 1 (line 7), omit "<inline font-style="italic">Asset Recycling Fund</inline>", substitute "<inline font-style="italic">Encouraging Privatisation (Asset Recycling Fund)</inline>".</para></quote>
<para>For the benefit of senators not closely following the debate, this is the final amendment, which may or may not be subjected to a division. They are very simple amendments but very important ones. They are amendments of honesty. They change the title of the bill. The government discovered that Greens like recycling. So they invented the cute phrase 'asset recycling', which I think is hilarious. We are substituting in the name of the bill 'Asset Recycling Fund Bill' with the 'Encouraging Privatisation (Asset Recycling Fund) Bill, for reasons that will be fairly obvious to everybody by now. Setting up a fund to effectively bribe states and territories from a $12 billion infrastructure fund by using this 15 per cent incentive, as all senators would be aware by now, is not a particularly good idea. I think the very least the government could have done would have been to give the bill an honest title. I strongly commend this amendment to the Senate.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:02</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CORMANN</name>
    <name.id>HDA</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The government does not support amending the title of the bill as indicted. The proposed changes do not reflect the bill's objectives. Privatisation is only a means to an end where it is appropriate. Privatisation is not the primary objective of the bill or the initiatives it supports. The government is keen for states to release capital from assets better managed by the private sector and it wants to encourage the states to use the proceeds of those sales to build greenfield infrastructure, infrastructure in which the market would not necessarily invest without government participation but infrastructure which is nevertheless important to Australia's economic growth.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:02</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Labor supports the amendments.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:03</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LUDLAM</name>
    <name.id>I07</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—In respect of the Asset Recycling Fund (Consequential Amendments) Bill 2014, I move Australian Greens amendments (1) and (2) on sheet 7496 together:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Clause 1, page 1 (line 6), omit "Asset Recycling Fund", substitute "Encouraging Privatisation (Asset Recycling Fund)".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) Entire Bill: Omit "<inline font-style="italic">Asset Recycling Fund Act 2014</inline>" (wherever occurring), substitute "<inline font-style="italic">Encouraging Privatisation (Asset Recycling Fund) Act 2014</inline>".</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>The CHAIRMAN: The question now is that these bills, as amended, be agreed to.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bills, as amended, agreed to.</para>
<para>Bills reported with amendments and amendments to the titles; report adopted.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Third Reading</title>
            <page.no>5356</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:05</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CORMANN</name>
    <name.id>HDA</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That these bills be now read a third time.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bills read a third time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Minerals Resource Rent Tax Repeal and Other Measures Bill 2013 [No. 2]</title>
          <page.no>5356</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" style="" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" background="">
            <a type="Bill" href="r5300">
              <p style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;" class="HPS-SubDebate">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Minerals Resource Rent Tax Repeal and Other Measures Bill 2013 [No. 2]</span>
              </p>
            </a>
            <p style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;" class="HPS-Normal">
              <span class="HPS-Normal">Debate resumed on the motion:</span>
            </p>
            <p style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;" class="HPS-Small">
              <span class="HPS-Small">That this bill be now read a second time.</span>
            </p>
            <p style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        " class="HPS-Normal">
              <span class="HPS-Normal">to which the following amendment was moved:</span>
            </p>
            <p style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;" class="HPS-Normal">
              <span class="HPS-Normal">
                <span style="&#xD;&#xA;    font-size:9.5pt;&#xD;&#xA;  "></span>
                <span style="&#xD;&#xA;    font-size:9.5pt;&#xD;&#xA;  ">At the end of the motion, add "but the Senate is of the opinion that the repeal of the Low Income Superannuation Contribution should not be concealed in this legislation as it will:</span>
              </span>
            </p>
            <p style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        " class="HPS-Normal">
              <span class="HPS-Normal">
                <span style="&#xD;&#xA;    font-size:9.5pt;&#xD;&#xA;  "></span>
                <span style="&#xD;&#xA;    font-size:9.5pt;&#xD;&#xA;  ">(a) diminish, by around $27 000, the retirement savings of one in three Australians;</span>
              </span>
            </p>
            <p style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        " class="HPS-Normal">
              <span class="HPS-Normal">
                <span style="&#xD;&#xA;    font-size:9.5pt;&#xD;&#xA;  "></span>
                <span style="&#xD;&#xA;    font-size:9.5pt;&#xD;&#xA;  ">(b) negatively impact on almost one in two working women and 80 per cent of women who work part time; and</span>
              </span>
            </p>
            <p style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        " class="HPS-Normal">
              <span class="HPS-Normal">
                <span style="&#xD;&#xA;    font-size:9.5pt;&#xD;&#xA;  "></span>
                <span style="&#xD;&#xA;    font-size:9.5pt;&#xD;&#xA;  ">(c) place further pressures on future governments due to increased costs to the aged pension".</span>
              </span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><division>
          <division.header>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [21:36]<br />(The President—Senator Parry)</p>
            </body>
          </division.header>
          <division.data>
            <ayes>
              <num.votes>33</num.votes>
              <title>AYES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Bilyk, CL (teller)</name>
                <name>Brown, CL</name>
                <name>Bullock, J.W.</name>
                <name>Cameron, DN</name>
                <name>Carr, KJ</name>
                <name>Collins, JMA</name>
                <name>Dastyari, S</name>
                <name>Di Natale, R</name>
                <name>Faulkner, J</name>
                <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                <name>Ketter, CR</name>
                <name>Lines, S</name>
                <name>Ludlam, S</name>
                <name>Lundy, KA</name>
                <name>Madigan, JJ</name>
                <name>Marshall, GM</name>
                <name>McEwen, A</name>
                <name>McLucas, J</name>
                <name>Milne, C</name>
                <name>Moore, CM</name>
                <name>O'Neill, DM</name>
                <name>Peris, N</name>
                <name>Rhiannon, L</name>
                <name>Rice, J</name>
                <name>Siewert, R</name>
                <name>Singh, LM</name>
                <name>Sterle, G</name>
                <name>Urquhart, AE</name>
                <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                <name>Wong, P</name>
                <name>Wright, PL</name>
              </names>
            </ayes>
            <noes>
              <num.votes>35</num.votes>
              <title>NOES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Abetz, E</name>
                <name>Back, CJ</name>
                <name>Bernardi, C</name>
                <name>Birmingham, SJ</name>
                <name>Bushby, DC</name>
                <name>Canavan, M.J.</name>
                <name>Cash, MC</name>
                <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                <name>Cormann, M</name>
                <name>Day, R.J.</name>
                <name>Edwards, S</name>
                <name>Fawcett, DJ (teller)</name>
                <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                <name>Fifield, MP</name>
                <name>Heffernan, W</name>
                <name>Johnston, D</name>
                <name>Lambie, J</name>
                <name>Lazarus, GP</name>
                <name>Leyonhjelm, DE</name>
                <name>Macdonald, ID</name>
                <name>Mason, B</name>
                <name>McGrath, J</name>
                <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                <name>Muir, R</name>
                <name>Nash, F</name>
                <name>O'Sullivan, B</name>
                <name>Parry, S</name>
                <name>Payne, MA</name>
                <name>Reynolds, L</name>
                <name>Ruston, A</name>
                <name>Ryan, SM</name>
                <name>Seselja, Z</name>
                <name>Sinodinos, A</name>
                <name>Wang, Z</name>
                <name>Williams, JR</name>
              </names>
            </noes>
            <pairs>
              <num.votes>0</num.votes>
              <title>PAIRS</title>
              <names></names>
            </pairs>
          </division.data>
          <division.result>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
            </body>
          </division.result>
        </division><division>
          <division.header>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [21:40]<br />(The President—Senator Parry)</p>
            </body>
          </division.header>
          <division.data>
            <ayes>
              <num.votes>10</num.votes>
              <title>AYES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Di Natale, R</name>
                <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                <name>Ludlam, S</name>
                <name>Milne, C</name>
                <name>Rhiannon, L</name>
                <name>Rice, J</name>
                <name>Siewert, R (teller)</name>
                <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                <name>Wright, PL</name>
              </names>
            </ayes>
            <noes>
              <num.votes>55</num.votes>
              <title>NOES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Back, CJ</name>
                <name>Bernardi, C</name>
                <name>Birmingham, SJ</name>
                <name>Brown, CL</name>
                <name>Bullock, J.W.</name>
                <name>Bushby, DC</name>
                <name>Cameron, DN</name>
                <name>Canavan, M.J.</name>
                <name>Carr, KJ</name>
                <name>Cash, MC</name>
                <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                <name>Collins, JMA</name>
                <name>Cormann, M</name>
                <name>Dastyari, S</name>
                <name>Day, R.J.</name>
                <name>Edwards, S</name>
                <name>Fawcett, DJ</name>
                <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                <name>Fifield, MP</name>
                <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                <name>Heffernan, W</name>
                <name>Johnston, D</name>
                <name>Ketter, CR</name>
                <name>Lambie, J</name>
                <name>Lazarus, GP</name>
                <name>Leyonhjelm, DE</name>
                <name>Lines, S</name>
                <name>Lundy, KA</name>
                <name>Macdonald, ID</name>
                <name>Madigan, JJ</name>
                <name>Marshall, GM</name>
                <name>Mason, B</name>
                <name>McEwen, A (teller)</name>
                <name>McGrath, J</name>
                <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                <name>McLucas, J</name>
                <name>Moore, CM</name>
                <name>Muir, R</name>
                <name>Nash, F</name>
                <name>O'Neill, DM</name>
                <name>O'Sullivan, B</name>
                <name>Parry, S</name>
                <name>Payne, MA</name>
                <name>Peris, N</name>
                <name>Reynolds, L</name>
                <name>Ruston, A</name>
                <name>Ryan, SM</name>
                <name>Seselja, Z</name>
                <name>Singh, LM</name>
                <name>Sinodinos, A</name>
                <name>Sterle, G</name>
                <name>Urquhart, AE</name>
                <name>Wang, Z</name>
                <name>Williams, JR</name>
                <name>Wong, P</name>
              </names>
            </noes>
            <pairs>
              <num.votes>0</num.votes>
              <title>PAIRS</title>
              <names></names>
            </pairs>
          </division.data>
          <division.result>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived</p>
            </body>
          </division.result>
        </division><division>
          <division.header>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [21:45]<br />(The President—Senator Parry)</p>
            </body>
          </division.header>
          <division.data>
            <ayes>
              <num.votes>36</num.votes>
              <title>AYES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Abetz, E</name>
                <name>Back, CJ</name>
                <name>Bernardi, C</name>
                <name>Birmingham, SJ</name>
                <name>Bushby, DC</name>
                <name>Canavan, M.J.</name>
                <name>Cash, MC</name>
                <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                <name>Cormann, M</name>
                <name>Day, R.J.</name>
                <name>Edwards, S</name>
                <name>Fawcett, DJ (teller)</name>
                <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                <name>Fifield, MP</name>
                <name>Heffernan, W</name>
                <name>Johnston, D</name>
                <name>Lambie, J</name>
                <name>Lazarus, GP</name>
                <name>Leyonhjelm, DE</name>
                <name>Macdonald, ID</name>
                <name>Madigan, JJ</name>
                <name>Mason, B</name>
                <name>McGrath, J</name>
                <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                <name>Muir, R</name>
                <name>Nash, F</name>
                <name>O'Sullivan, B</name>
                <name>Parry, S</name>
                <name>Payne, MA</name>
                <name>Reynolds, L</name>
                <name>Ruston, A</name>
                <name>Ryan, SM</name>
                <name>Seselja, Z</name>
                <name>Sinodinos, A</name>
                <name>Wang, Z</name>
                <name>Williams, JR</name>
              </names>
            </ayes>
            <noes>
              <num.votes>32</num.votes>
              <title>NOES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Bilyk, CL</name>
                <name>Brown, CL</name>
                <name>Bullock, J.W.</name>
                <name>Cameron, DN</name>
                <name>Carr, KJ</name>
                <name>Collins, JMA</name>
                <name>Dastyari, S</name>
                <name>Di Natale, R</name>
                <name>Faulkner, J</name>
                <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                <name>Ketter, CR</name>
                <name>Lines, S</name>
                <name>Ludlam, S</name>
                <name>Lundy, KA</name>
                <name>Marshall, GM</name>
                <name>McEwen, A (teller)</name>
                <name>McLucas, J</name>
                <name>Milne, C</name>
                <name>Moore, CM</name>
                <name>O'Neill, DM</name>
                <name>Peris, N</name>
                <name>Rhiannon, L</name>
                <name>Rice, J</name>
                <name>Siewert, R</name>
                <name>Singh, LM</name>
                <name>Sterle, G</name>
                <name>Urquhart, AE</name>
                <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                <name>Wong, P</name>
                <name>Wright, PL</name>
              </names>
            </noes>
            <pairs>
              <num.votes>0</num.votes>
              <title>PAIRS</title>
              <names></names>
            </pairs>
          </division.data>
          <division.result>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to.<br />Bill read a second time.</p>
            </body>
          </division.result>
        </division><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>In Committee</title>
            <page.no>5407</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>21:49</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LEYONHJELM</name>
    <name.id>111206</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I oppose schedules 2, 3, 4 and 5 in the following terms:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(2) Schedule 2, page 21 (line 1) to page 27 (line 8), to be opposed.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) Schedule 3, page 28 (line 1) to page 29 (line 25), to be opposed.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(4) Schedule 4, page 30 (lines 1 to 27), to be opposed.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(5) Schedule 5, page 31 (line 1) to page 35 (line 28), to be opposed.</para></quote>
<para>Each of these schedules increases income taxes on business and, in our opinion, they are the worst taxes on the government's books. Together they raise more tax revenue than the repeal of the mining tax will cost. I recognise the need to repair the budget, but the problem is excessive spending, not insufficient taxing. In particular, schedule 2 prevents companies from carrying losses back to an earlier year to obtain a tax offset. It represents a tax rise for businesses, particularly for businesses with varying profits and losses from year to year. Mr Temporary Chairman, do you intend to put each of the schedules separately, or together?</para>
<para>The CHAIRMAN: I intended to put the question that schedules 2 to 5 stand as printed.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LEYONHJELM</name>
    <name.id>111206</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I oppose schedule 3. Currently, small businesses can claim an immediate deduction for an asset costing less than $6,500; schedule 3 seeks to reduce this threshold to $1,000. The higher threshold should be retained as it reduces and simplifies tax for small businesses. I oppose schedule 4 as well. It removes generous tax rules for small businesses using motor vehicles, including an immediate deduction for the first $5,000 of the cost of a motor vehicle. This concession reduces the income tax burden on small business and it should be retained. I also oppose schedule 5, which removes the immediate deductibility of expenditure on geothermal energy exploration and prospecting. This immediate deductibility reduces the income tax burden on business and it should be retained.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>21:51</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CORMANN</name>
    <name.id>HDA</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>This is where I go back to the most important point I made in my summing up—that any senator voting to amend the mining tax to keep Labor's unfunded promises that they attached to this failed tax is voting to keep it. We cannot afford to keep billions and billions of dollars worth of unfunded promises which Labor attached to a failed tax. Removing schedule 2 will cost about $1.3 billion over the forward estimates; removing schedule 3 will cost about $3.2 billion to the budget over the forward estimates; removing schedule 4 will take about $550 million off the budget bottom line; and removing schedule 5, another $15 million. For these reasons the government cannot support removing these schedules.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>21:52</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator MOORE</name>
    <name.id>00AOQ</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Labor opposition will be supporting the removal of schedules 2, 3, 4 and 5. A number of speakers referred to these issues in their contributions to the core debate. What we are talking about here is investment in small business. At the moment we have a government that pride themselves on and lecture us consistently about the need for effective small business and the fact that only the government of today understand and support small business. The schedules we have in front of us now are quite targeted programs looking at flexibility and productivity for small business. We heard what each of them would cost, but we did not hear from the government what the investment in small business would bring back into the economy.</para>
<para>These issues are very important to small business. We have had the business community saying that these are things that should be maintained. They say they are practical and that they should be put into practice. We heard the minister before we wrapped up talking about the cost and that the process would not be effective. Basically what we have here is a priority issue. The government is determined and prepared to give tax write-offs and support to large business—in this case, most particularly the mining industry—but says it is too hard where you have quite specialised important processes for small business in terms of their vehicles and their cash write-offs and flexibility across financial years.</para>
<para>There is also the very important issue of geothermal investment. This is something we have talked about consistently when looking at the range of energy options in our community. This was a targeted program to allow people to invest and do research in this area, and we believe it is important it be retained. We think this should be seen as an investment in what will be brought back into the economy, into business confidence and into the effectiveness of local small businesses. A number of our people in their contributions mentioned people contacting them about the importance of this aspect—local businesses saying that these things are working and are important to them. They are very new. They have hardly had a chance to settle in in terms of people understanding how they work. We heard the minister talk about the impact to the tax department in actually implementation and administration.</para>
<para>These were new tax initiatives, as in fact were the others. When you set up new programs in any department that is an expensive process to do—to set them up. Once they are in place they begin to flow more easily. We believe these are important initiatives. They are things that our government did in consultation with small business and we think they should be supported.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>21:55</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HEFFERNAN</name>
    <name.id>C16</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Can I just say—and I know I have not given notice—that this would all be doable if everyone in this chamber was fair dinkum about revenue leakage and the $1.3 trillion last year of revenue leakage in eight of the G20 nations. It is like the Tour de France: anyone that won in the last 20 years cheated, but no-one has complained because they are all cheating. Why don't we as a nation get fair dinkum at the group of 20? There is $37 trillion in tax havens. We can do all this, Senator Leyonhjelm, if we as a nation and the group of 20 say, 'We are sick of the taxpayers of this country having pressure on them and the corporates looking the other way.'</para>
<para>The CHAIRMAN: Order! The question is that schedules 2 to 5 stand as printed.</para>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The committee divided. [22.01]<br />(The Chairman—Senator Marshall)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>34</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Abetz, E</name>
                  <name>Back, CJ</name>
                  <name>Bernardi, C</name>
                  <name>Birmingham, SJ</name>
                  <name>Bushby, DC</name>
                  <name>Canavan, M.J.</name>
                  <name>Cash, MC</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                  <name>Cormann, M</name>
                  <name>Edwards, S</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, DJ (teller)</name>
                  <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                  <name>Fifield, MP</name>
                  <name>Heffernan, W</name>
                  <name>Johnston, D</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J</name>
                  <name>Lazarus, GP</name>
                  <name>Macdonald, ID</name>
                  <name>Madigan, JJ</name>
                  <name>Mason, B</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                  <name>Muir, R</name>
                  <name>Nash, F</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, B</name>
                  <name>Parry, S</name>
                  <name>Payne, MA</name>
                  <name>Reynolds, L</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A</name>
                  <name>Ryan, SM</name>
                  <name>Seselja, Z</name>
                  <name>Sinodinos, A</name>
                  <name>Wang, Z</name>
                  <name>Williams, JR</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>33</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Brown, CL</name>
                  <name>Bullock, J.W.</name>
                  <name>Cameron, DN</name>
                  <name>Collins, JMA</name>
                  <name>Dastyari, S</name>
                  <name>Day, R.J.</name>
                  <name>Di Natale, R</name>
                  <name>Faulkner, J</name>
                  <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                  <name>Ketter, CR</name>
                  <name>Leyonhjelm, DE</name>
                  <name>Lines, S</name>
                  <name>Ludlam, S</name>
                  <name>Ludwig, JW</name>
                  <name>Lundy, KA</name>
                  <name>Marshall, GM</name>
                  <name>McEwen, A (teller)</name>
                  <name>McLucas, J</name>
                  <name>Milne, C</name>
                  <name>Moore, CM</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, DM</name>
                  <name>Peris, N</name>
                  <name>Rhiannon, L</name>
                  <name>Rice, J</name>
                  <name>Siewert, R</name>
                  <name>Singh, LM</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, AE</name>
                  <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                  <name>Wong, P</name>
                  <name>Wright, PL</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names></names>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>22:03</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The CHAIRMAN</name>
    <name.id>00AOP</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Leyonhjelm, because that amendment was not successful your next proposed amendment is now redundant.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>22:03</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CORMANN</name>
    <name.id>HDA</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I table a supplementary explanatory memorandum relating to the government amendment to be moved to this bill. I move government amendment (1) on sheet BJ276:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Schedule 6, item 1, page 36 (lines 5 to 9), omit the item, substitute:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">1 Subsection 19(2)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   Repeal the subsection, substitute:</para></quote>
<para>(2) The charge percentage for a quarter in a year described in an item of the table is the number specified in column 2 of the item.</para>
<para>On 23 June 2014, the government flagged in the House of Representatives that further changes to the superannuation guarantee schedule announced in the budget would be introduced as an amendment to the Minerals Resource Rent Tax Repeal and Other Measures Bill 2013. Today, I move this amendment, which will increase the super guarantee rate to 9.5 per cent from 1 July 2014 and then remain at 9.5 per cent until 30 June 2018. It will then increase by 0.5 per cent each year until it reaches 12 per cent in 2022-23. This amendment is required because the Senate previously opposed the government's proposal to pause the SG rate at 9.25 per cent. It is the fiscally responsible and necessary thing to do.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>22:04</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator MOORE</name>
    <name.id>00AOQ</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Labor opposition will be opposing this amendment—I am sure that is a surprise to the minister. This is not a technical amendment. This is actually of deep importance to every person who has superannuation in our nation. It will mean literally billions of dollars to individual superannuation recipients across our country, as the indexation of the rise is changed. This is a common element of the budget provisions that came through recently, where in a number of our standard payments the government claims that there is no decrease but that, in fact, it is just a change. This is a slower rate of increase.</para>
<para>So we disagree with this. We have an expectation of an effective super future in our nation. Treasury analysis shows that a continuation of Labor's policy settings in this area would result in the proportion of older Australians on the full rate of age pension being reduced. That is the whole idea of the process. An effective super scheme, which, as we all know, is so important to Labor policy and our heritage, ensures that people have a sustainable future and that they will not be reliant on welfare into their futures. We believe that through maintaining our proposal for the growth of the super guarantee we would give more security to the process. People would understand their relationship with their super and they would gain more earnings. We believe this is a backward step and completely disagree with the government's position.</para>
<para>The CHAIRMAN: The question is that government amendment (1) on sheet BJ276 be agreed to.</para>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The committee divided. [22:10]<br />(The Chairman—Senator Marshall)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>30</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Abetz, E</name>
                  <name>Back, CJ</name>
                  <name>Bernardi, C</name>
                  <name>Birmingham, SJ</name>
                  <name>Bushby, DC</name>
                  <name>Canavan, M.J.</name>
                  <name>Cash, MC</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                  <name>Cormann, M</name>
                  <name>Day, R.J.</name>
                  <name>Edwards, S</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, DJ (teller)</name>
                  <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                  <name>Fifield, MP</name>
                  <name>Heffernan, W</name>
                  <name>Johnston, D</name>
                  <name>Leyonhjelm, DE</name>
                  <name>Macdonald, ID</name>
                  <name>Mason, B</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                  <name>Nash, F</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, B</name>
                  <name>Payne, MA</name>
                  <name>Reynolds, L</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A</name>
                  <name>Ryan, SM</name>
                  <name>Seselja, Z</name>
                  <name>Sinodinos, A</name>
                  <name>Williams, JR</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>36</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Brown, CL</name>
                  <name>Bullock, J.W.</name>
                  <name>Cameron, DN</name>
                  <name>Collins, JMA</name>
                  <name>Dastyari, S</name>
                  <name>Di Natale, R</name>
                  <name>Faulkner, J</name>
                  <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                  <name>Ketter, CR</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J</name>
                  <name>Lazarus, GP</name>
                  <name>Lines, S</name>
                  <name>Ludlam, S</name>
                  <name>Ludwig, JW</name>
                  <name>Lundy, KA</name>
                  <name>Madigan, JJ</name>
                  <name>Marshall, GM</name>
                  <name>McEwen, A (teller)</name>
                  <name>McLucas, J</name>
                  <name>Milne, C</name>
                  <name>Moore, CM</name>
                  <name>Muir, R</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, DM</name>
                  <name>Peris, N</name>
                  <name>Rhiannon, L</name>
                  <name>Rice, J</name>
                  <name>Siewert, R</name>
                  <name>Singh, LM</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, AE</name>
                  <name>Wang, Z</name>
                  <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                  <name>Wong, P</name>
                  <name>Wright, PL</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names></names>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>22:13</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator MADIGAN</name>
    <name.id>217571</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I oppose schedules 6 and 7 in the following terms:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Schedule 6, page 36 (lines 1 to 13), to be opposed.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) Schedule 7, page 37 (line 1) to page 39 (line 3), to be opposed.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>22:13</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator MOORE</name>
    <name.id>00AOQ</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>We commend our proposition to the chamber. This is important. We wish to stick to the original program and the original legislation in terms of the increase to the superannuation guarantee. I have already spoken about the importance of superannuation to our community and to our economy, and I commend our proposition to the chamber.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>22:13</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CORMANN</name>
    <name.id>HDA</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I have made the point previously that this is a tax that has not raised any meaningful revenue. It has a whole lot of unfunded promises attached to it which are not affordable. Any senator who votes to amend this bill to impose measures that are not funded is essentially voting to keep the mining tax. This particular measure would add another $2.6 billion hit to the budget bottom line if it was adopted by the Senate. The government opposes this proposition.</para>
<para>The CHAIRMAN: The question is that schedule 6 stand as printed.</para>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The committee divided. [22:18]<br />(The Chairman—Senator Marshall)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>35</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Abetz, E</name>
                  <name>Back, CJ</name>
                  <name>Bernardi, C</name>
                  <name>Birmingham, SJ</name>
                  <name>Bushby, DC</name>
                  <name>Canavan, M.J.</name>
                  <name>Cash, MC</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                  <name>Cormann, M</name>
                  <name>Day, R.J.</name>
                  <name>Edwards, S</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, DJ (teller)</name>
                  <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                  <name>Fifield, MP</name>
                  <name>Heffernan, W</name>
                  <name>Johnston, D</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J</name>
                  <name>Lazarus, GP</name>
                  <name>Leyonhjelm, DE</name>
                  <name>Macdonald, ID</name>
                  <name>Mason, B</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                  <name>Muir, R</name>
                  <name>Nash, F</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, B</name>
                  <name>Parry, S</name>
                  <name>Payne, MA</name>
                  <name>Reynolds, L</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A</name>
                  <name>Ryan, SM</name>
                  <name>Seselja, Z</name>
                  <name>Sinodinos, A</name>
                  <name>Wang, Z</name>
                  <name>Williams, JR</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>33</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Bilyk, CL</name>
                  <name>Brown, CL</name>
                  <name>Bullock, J.W.</name>
                  <name>Cameron, DN</name>
                  <name>Collins, JMA</name>
                  <name>Dastyari, S</name>
                  <name>Di Natale, R</name>
                  <name>Faulkner, J</name>
                  <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                  <name>Ketter, CR</name>
                  <name>Lines, S</name>
                  <name>Ludlam, S</name>
                  <name>Ludwig, JW</name>
                  <name>Madigan, JJ</name>
                  <name>Marshall, GM</name>
                  <name>McEwen, A (teller)</name>
                  <name>McLucas, J</name>
                  <name>Milne, C</name>
                  <name>Moore, CM</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, DM</name>
                  <name>Peris, N</name>
                  <name>Polley, H</name>
                  <name>Rhiannon, L</name>
                  <name>Rice, J</name>
                  <name>Siewert, R</name>
                  <name>Singh, LM</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, AE</name>
                  <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                  <name>Wong, P</name>
                  <name>Wright, PL</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names></names>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>22:20</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LAZARUS</name>
    <name.id>108616</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Palmer United Party oppose schedule 7 in the following terms:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Schedule 7, page 37 (line 1) to page 39 (line 3), to be opposed.</para></quote>
<para>We oppose this schedule of the Minerals Resource Rent Tax Repeal and Other Measures Bill 2013 [No.2], commonly known as the mining tax repeal bill, to ensure the low-income superannuation contribution is continued.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>22:21</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CORMANN</name>
    <name.id>HDA</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>As we made very clear in the lead-up to the last election, we were committed to getting rid of the mining tax and we also said that, given this is failed tax which does not raise any revenue, we were also going to get rid of all the unfunded spending promises attached to it. This proposal before the chamber has a cost of $3.6 billion over the forward estimates, which is of course $3.6 billion the budget does not have. That is why the government is opposed to this proposition.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>22:21</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator MILNE</name>
    <name.id>ka5</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Australian Greens have an amendment which is identical to what has just been proposed, the aim of which is to retain the low-income superannuation contribution. The low-income superannuation contribution is about reducing inequality in Australia and that is something the Australian Greens are passionate about. One of the worst things happening in this country is the widening of the gap between the rich and the poor. Taking away the low-income superannuation contribution at the same time as allowing the wealthiest people in the country to maximise their wealth through superannuation is quite wrong. At the same time as the Prime Minister is supposedly standing up for women in Australia, here he is taking away the low-income superannuation contribution, which is a real attack on women—because we know that women are the ones who are likely to have lower incomes and who are more likely to be left without adequate superannuation. That is why we so strongly support this proposal.</para>
<para>As for the government going on about removing the mining tax and therefore having to remove the unfunded other programs associated with it—how about a bit of consistency? The government has today removed the carbon price but kept all the carbon price compensation. At the same time it is hitting the community with co-payments. It is taking with the one hand and giving with the other. So it is a bit rich to hear a minister talk about 'unfunded' parts of something while they are abolishing the mining tax. They are busily rearranging the deck chairs on the <inline font-style="italic">Titanic</inline><inline font-style="italic">—</inline>and that is precisely where the government's budget is. It is the <inline font-style="italic">Titanic</inline> and it has hit the iceberg of the Australian community. That is exactly how Australians feel about this government—and they are not likely to warm to it.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>22:23</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator MOORE</name>
    <name.id>00AOQ</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The low-income superannuation contribution was an important initiative of the last Labor government. We are committed to superannuation. We are particularly committed to effectively providing superannuation options for the most vulnerable, low-paid workers in our community. The low-income superannuation contribution was focused specifically on low-paid workers. It was to ensure that their superannuation would be maximised. If we lose this, we will be increasing superannuation taxes on one in three of Australia's lowest paid workers.</para>
<para>There has been great support—identical motions—from a range of parties in this place. It shows that they have been listening to the community. There has been an extremely strong community response to this particular element of the process. We have had email campaigns and people coming to see us. They care about this particular payment. They care about their superannuation.</para>
<para>This will be one step towards making superannuation more equal in our community. As Senator Milne has said, there would be a particular impact on women. We know from the statistics—that is clear. There is no lack of clarity around the importance of this particular process. This encourages people to look after their superannuation process. It links them into their superannuation. One of the elements has always been having people own their own financial integrity through their superannuation. This is an important element.</para>
<para>In the last parliament this was one of the major things we were able to do as a government. We are committed to this process. We strongly support the amendments before us—by so many people. We are sharing this amendment. We call upon the government to support this amendment, it is so important. Please vote for this amendment.</para>
<para>The CHAIRMAN: The question is that schedule 7 stand as printed.</para>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The committee divided. [22:30]<br />(The Chairman—Senator Marshall)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>29</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Abetz, E</name>
                  <name>Back, CJ</name>
                  <name>Bernardi, C</name>
                  <name>Birmingham, SJ</name>
                  <name>Bushby, DC</name>
                  <name>Canavan, M.J.</name>
                  <name>Cash, MC</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                  <name>Cormann, M</name>
                  <name>Edwards, S</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, DJ (teller)</name>
                  <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                  <name>Fifield, MP</name>
                  <name>Heffernan, W</name>
                  <name>Johnston, D</name>
                  <name>Macdonald, ID</name>
                  <name>Mason, B</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                  <name>Nash, F</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, B</name>
                  <name>Parry, S</name>
                  <name>Payne, MA</name>
                  <name>Reynolds, L</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A</name>
                  <name>Ryan, SM</name>
                  <name>Seselja, Z</name>
                  <name>Sinodinos, A</name>
                  <name>Williams, JR</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>39</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Bilyk, CL</name>
                  <name>Brown, CL</name>
                  <name>Bullock, J.W.</name>
                  <name>Carr, KJ</name>
                  <name>Collins, JMA</name>
                  <name>Dastyari, S</name>
                  <name>Day, R.J.</name>
                  <name>Di Natale, R</name>
                  <name>Faulkner, J</name>
                  <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                  <name>Ketter, CR</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J</name>
                  <name>Lazarus, GP</name>
                  <name>Leyonhjelm, DE</name>
                  <name>Lines, S</name>
                  <name>Ludlam, S</name>
                  <name>Ludwig, JW</name>
                  <name>Madigan, JJ</name>
                  <name>Marshall, GM</name>
                  <name>McEwen, A (teller)</name>
                  <name>McLucas, J</name>
                  <name>Milne, C</name>
                  <name>Moore, CM</name>
                  <name>Muir, R</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, DM</name>
                  <name>Peris, N</name>
                  <name>Polley, H</name>
                  <name>Rhiannon, L</name>
                  <name>Rice, J</name>
                  <name>Siewert, R</name>
                  <name>Singh, LM</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, AE</name>
                  <name>Wang, z</name>
                  <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                  <name>Wong, p</name>
                  <name>Wright, PL</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names></names>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>22:32</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator MOORE</name>
    <name.id>00AOQ</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The schoolkids bonus is a very important Labor initiative. We are committed to retaining the payment. Mr Chairman, I think you would remember that everyone on this side of the chamber who spoke in the debate talked about the importance of the schoolkids bonus. They shared with the chamber the kinds of information that their communities were giving them about how important the payment is to them, their families and their school communities. In fact, a number of senators spoke about how important this is to their schools.</para>
<para>It is odd that we are even debating this payment in any discussion of the mining resource tax. We do not understand why it is linked to this process. We are not surprised by the fact that the government is trying to cut the bonus, because we have seen that in a range of other areas in this space. The schoolkids bonus was never part of the debate on the mining resource tax but getting rid of it seems to be.</para>
<para>It is important to note that many of the families who could lose this important payment which is so important to their kids education and their ability to be engaged in the wider activities of the school, which is what the schoolkids bonus was designed to do, are the same families who will be affected by other proposed changes that the government has put into its budget. Consistently we say that when you are looking at the impact of any change you should look at the cumulative impact. This is one change that we do not want to see. We want to retain the schoolkids bonus. It is important. People know about it. They look forward to it. They celebrate when they receive it for their children at school. We believe that it should be retained. I know that there are many people with similar amendments who feel exactly the same way.</para>
<para>The opposition opposes schedules 8 and 9 in the following terms:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(4) Schedule 8, page 40 (line 1) to page 45 (line 9), to be opposed.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(5) Schedule 9, page 46 (line 1) to page 49 (line 24), to be opposed.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>22:34</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LAMBIE</name>
    <name.id>250026</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak to amendment 7517 to the Minerals Resource Rent Tax Repeal and Other Measures Bill 2013 [No. 2] circulated in this chamber in my name. The first provision of the Palmer United Party's amendment to the Minerals Resource Rent Tax Repeal and Other Measures Bill 2013 [No. 2] prevents the Abbott government from repealing an income support bonus detailed in schedule 8 of the legislation before this place. The second provision of this amendment to the Minerals Resource Rent Tax Repeal and Other Measures Bill 2013 [No. 2] stops the Abbott government from repealing the schoolkids bonus detailed in schedule 9.</para>
<para>The Palmer United Party accepts the argument that the Labor-Greens mining tax was a failure, has caused a loss of confidence and jobs in Australia's mining industry and must be repealed; however, in repealing the minerals resource rent tax the Palmer United Party will not allow this Prime Minister and his Liberal National government to take important funding away from schoolkids, hardworking Australian parents and the orphans and children of badly wounded veterans.</para>
<para>Without this Palmer United Party amendment the Prime Minister and his Liberal National Party government will be able to cause a great injustice and punch a gaping hole in the budgets of ordinary Australian battlers. I am proud to be a part of a political team that will stand up for ordinary Australians against the extreme budget cuts which the PM has tried to justify by spreading the falsehood that Australia is facing a budget emergency. Everyone now knows that Australia is not facing a budget emergency. Even Rupert Murdoch's <inline font-style="italic">Australian</inline>, which I try not to read, because I find it an abuse of the word 'Australian' because its content is dictated by an American billionaire, admitted last weekend that Mr Abbott has overegged rhetoric surrounding a 'budget emergency'. Indeed, the exact words used in an editorial in Mr Murdoch's paper which busts the myth of the great Australian budget emergency are:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The government was also hampered by its foolish, over-egged rhetoric of a “budget emergency”. The prime issue was always a structural fiscal deficit, which needed to be fixed over the medium term.</para></quote>
<para>Without a budget emergency, even an American billionaire knows that the Liberal Nationals' extreme budget cuts are not warranted. The financial problems we face can, as Mr Murdoch's paper says, be fixed over the medium term.</para>
<para>With that important point in mind I turn to the government's proposed removal of the income support bonus, which our amendment to schedule 8 will stop and protect. The member for Moncrieff and Parliamentary Secretary to the Treasurer announced in five sentences during his second reading speech the repeal of the low-income support bonus. The member for Moncrieff and Parliamentary Secretary to the Treasurer proudly announced in his last sentence regarding this provision:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The removal of this measure will improve the budget position by $950 million by 30 June 2017.</para></quote>
<para>What the secretary to the Treasurer did not announce in his speech to parliament or describe was the fact that this measure scraps very modest yearly payments of about $211 to the children of veterans who have been killed or badly wounded while serving their country. Why? This is one of the most contemptible and unbelievable budget cuts contained in the Minerals Resource Rent Tax Repeal and Other Measures Bill 2013 [No. 2]—indeed, in the whole of the Abbot-Hockey budget. This Prime Minister and government, if we allowed them, would take on average $211 a year from the orphans and children of badly wounded veterans who receive those modest payments in a school bonus. What sort of heartless, uncaring souls would agree with that budget cut?</para>
<para>Plenty of members of this parliament who support these vile budget cuts will line up on Anzac Day and give wonderful speeches. They may even shed a crocodile tear as they pose with my veterans for photos. I have one simple message for those contemptible politicians: it is time you lived up to the Anzac legend and not off it.</para>
<para>I now turn to the Palmer United Party's amendment that will prevent the repeal of the schoolkids bonus, whose funding guarantee is found in provisions of schedule 9 of the bill currently before the chamber, the Minerals Resource Rent Tax Repeal and Other Measures Bill 2013 [No. 2]. If the Palmer United amendment, which blocks the repeal of schedule 9 of the bill, is not supported by members of this chamber, then over the next three years Mr Abbott and Mr Hockey will be given the green light to rip nearly $4 billion from Australian mums and dads who have children at school. If the Palmer United amendment is not passed, then for the next three years Tasmanian families, along with all Australian families, will lose nearly $1.3 billion a year after the Prime Minister abolishes the schoolkids bonus.</para>
<para>I have received correspondence from a Tasmanian constituent regarding the government's proposal to abolish the schoolkids bonus. It is important that this ordinary Tasmanian voice is heard in this place during this debate: 'Hi, Jacqui. I hope I have the correct email contact. Congratulations on your election. The reason I am contacting you is as follows. Tony Abbott and the Liberal Party are planning to scrap the current schoolkids bonus and I am begging that the Palmer United Party will give strong consideration to blocking this move. In 1993, when we had our first child, my wife and I took the commitment that she would stay home and look after our children rather than go back to full-time work and place them in child care. Since that time, I must say that it has not been easy to make ends meet, but we stood by our commitment. Our youngest child is now 13 and my wife, although having occasionally worked part time, is not working at present and is still committed to being present when our daughter arrives at home from school. We therefore rely on this little bit of extra income from the schoolkids bonus to come into our household. If the cut was to go ahead this will put us even further behind the eight ball. Several weeks ago, I tried to contact our new local House of Reps member, Andrew Nikolic, but he must be far too busy to reply to my email, as I still have heard no response. In closing, I would like to thank you for your consideration of the matters raised in this email and I look forward to your reply.' This person then informed me, in more recent correspondence: 'If we as a family lose the current schoolkids bonus, which is an extremely welcome addition to us, we'll be around $820-plus a year worse off.'</para>
<para>Why does this government want to take about $820 a year from ordinary Australians—decent people who struggle to pay the bills and raise a family and educate their children? I accept the argument the member for Moncrieff and Parliamentary Secretary to the Treasurer raised, when he said on Monday, 23 June 2014, during the second reading debate of this legislation in the House of Reps:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The repeal of the MRRT will restore confidence and promote activity in the mining industry, creating jobs and contributing to the prosperity of all Australians. It sends a clear signal that Australia is determined to remain a premier destination for mining investment, and is once again open for business.</para></quote>
<para>I also accept his statement:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Mining companies in Australia will continue to pay their fair share of tax through state royalties and company tax.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The mining tax is also a fiscal disaster.</para></quote>
<para>However, when the Parliamentary Secretary to the Treasurer says:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The repeal of the mining tax and associated measures will improve the budget's bottom line by over $12.6 billion by 30 June 2017—</para></quote>
<para>it shows that the budget bottom lines are more important to this Liberal-National government than the lives and the wellbeing of Australia's sick, poor and needy, who are targeted and harmed by these unnecessary budget cuts.</para>
<para>With this and other Palmer United Party amendments, we are providing Australia with a win-win solution to the fiscal disaster that the minerals resource rent tax has become, while protecting assistance to important groups of Australians. This parliament can scrap the MRRT, thereby restoring hope and confidence in our important Australian mining industry, and also boost economic activity and create jobs. This parliament can also send a clear message to the government by voting for the Palmer United amendments to protect modest public funding for children's education. This message is simple: we do not want our government to take away assistance from those who have the least and are doing it so tough.</para>
<para>In summary, the Palmer United Party is happy to repeal the MRRT. We accept that the tax has failed its stated purpose. However, the Palmer United Party urges all members of this chamber who have a sense of fairness and want to protect the battlers and their children to support our amendment which will stop a $4 billion cut to funds, which directly contribute to our children's education. I urge all members of this chamber to support PUP amendments which will stop this government, because of blind ideological reasons, from targeting the orphans and children of badly wounded vets.</para>
<para>In closing, I once again pay my deepest respects to serving and former members of our military and their families for protecting us and sacrificing all to keep democracy and freedom alive in Australia. I commend the Palmer United amendments to the Senate.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>22:45</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator MILNE</name>
    <name.id>ka5</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Australian Greens support the amendment that has been moved by the Labor Party and by the Palmer United Party. The Greens agree and, no doubt, others in the parliament will as well. The fact of the matter is that we are in a situation where some of the poorest people in the country, particularly single parents, are up against it. I want to put it in this context: under the last government, the Labor Party, with the support of the coalition, absolutely undermined support for single parents in this country. If you were to make this even worse by taking away these small benefits, it would be shocking.</para>
<para>In Tasmania there are a lot of people who rely on this. A woman rang our office saying that she was desperately concerned that, as a result of the Abbott government budget, she would not be able to get a uniform to send her child to school with and she was devastated by that prospect. The Schoolkids Bonus and the income support bonus are not large sums of money, but they really matter to people who have very little. That is the fact. It is really sad, actually, that we have got to a point where the Abbott government is moving to take away every level of support and to undermine family payment support and, at the same time, end the mining tax on the big miners.</para>
<para>As I said in my speech earlier today, Glencore made $15 billion and they have paid zero tax, and they are going to be let off the hook tonight by the absolute abolition of the mining tax, and the government are saying that they are prepared to make this attack on some of the poorest families in the country. It is not on. I want it absolutely on the record before the government gets up to say, 'This is so unfair. We're abolishing the mining tax. Therefore, we should have to abolish everything it would have funded.' The Greens have offered to assist in this matter. We have said we are prepared to fix the mining tax to make sure the big miners actually pay their way, so that the likes of Glencore do not get away with making billions out of our resources and paying no tax. We are prepared to make sure a mining tax works, returns the billions that it ought to return to the Australian people and, at the same time, support low-income people and people trying to send their children to school and benefiting from the Schoolkids Bonus.</para>
<para>The fact of the matter is that the Palmer United Party ought to not be voting on this tonight; they should be abstaining from the vote in the parliament. The conflict of interest provision is meaningless if you have a political party led by a coal billionaire voting to abandon the carbon price, which has a direct pecuniary interest with Queensland Nickel, for example, which is owned by the leader of the party who is here tonight, voting to end a mining tax which would apply to his particular mines. It seems that this is how low we have come in the Australian parliament. That conflict of interest means nothing anymore.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>22:49</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CORMANN</name>
    <name.id>HDA</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The government cannot support these amendments. Removing schedules 8 and 9 from the mining tax repeal bill would cost the budget bottom line about $5.9 billion over the forward estimates. So, what I would say to the honourable senator from Tasmania, Senator Lambie, is that we cannot scrap the mining tax while keeping the unfunded promises Labor attached to it. We were very transparent in the lead-up to the last election—that we would scrap the mining tax and we would also scrap all of the unfunded promises that were attached to it.</para>
<para>Senator Moore asks how we could have possibly linked the schoolkids bonus to the mining tax. Well, we are taking our lead here from the former minister for finance, Senator Wong, who said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">And I think the Government’s approach with the mining tax and making sure the benefits of that flow through to families, particularly low and middle income families through the School Kids Bonus, where people get assistance for kids’ education …</para></quote>
<para>That was in an interview with Michael Smyth on ABC Adelaide <inline font-style="italic">Drive</inline> on 6 June 2012. The most substantive point I would make is: we understand that the schoolkids bonus provides income for families. But what I would ask people to reflect on is that we are borrowing money to give it away, and we are asking our children to repay that money that we are borrowing today, with interest. In our view, that is not the best way that we can support our children. The best way we can support our children is by building a stronger economy and creating more opportunities for people to get ahead and making sure that we leave our public finances in a healthy state so that our children do not have to carry the burden of the debt that the Labor Party has left behind for us.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>22:51</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WHISH-WILSON</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I would just like to add weight to comments that Senator Milne made in relation to the Palmer United Party's vote on the mining tax. I think the bit that Senator Lambie has not worked out yet—and I believe she is genuine in her comments about compensation to low-income families and the children of veterans et cetera—is that someone has to pay for that, and, in that sense, I am sympathetic to some of Senator Cormann's comments tonight. We have to raise the revenue somehow, and it is a very obvious conflict of interest: that her boss, Clive Palmer, who has iron ore and coal interests, should be paying the mining tax, and, in this situation, he has, potentially, a deciding vote on a matter of public policy. He is a special interest—and this is not a personal thing at all. He has the chance to dictate public policy in this respect. Nevertheless, he has a conflict of interest. In this instance, the Greens are asking the Palmer United Party, through you, Chair, to stand aside and abstain from the final vote on the mining tax because of that conflict of interest.</para>
<para>The CHAIRMAN: The question is that schedules 8 and 9 stand as printed.</para>
<para>Question negatived.</para>
<para>The CHAIRMAN: Senator Lambie, you now have a consequential amendment, which is (1) on sheet 7517.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>22:53</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LAMBIE</name>
    <name.id>250026</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move amendment (1) on sheet 7517 in an amended form, replacing '7' with '6'—this is subsequent to the removal of schedules 7, 8 and 9:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Clause 2, page 2 (table item 3, column headed "Provision(s)"), omit "9", substitute "6".</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>22:53</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator MOORE</name>
    <name.id>00AOQ</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move the amendment standing in the opposition's name.</para>
<para>The CHAIRMAN: I am sorry, Senator Moore; you do not need to move that amendment; that has now been made redundant by the previous amendments. So the question now is that the bill, as amended, be agreed to.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill, as amended, agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill reported with amendments; report adopted.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Third Reading</title>
            <page.no>5421</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>22:55</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CORMANN</name>
    <name.id>HDA</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill be now read a third time.</para></quote>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the bill be now read a third time.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [22:59]<br />(The President—Senator Parry)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>36</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Abetz, E</name>
                  <name>Back, CJ</name>
                  <name>Bernardi, C</name>
                  <name>Birmingham, SJ</name>
                  <name>Bushby, DC (teller)</name>
                  <name>Canavan, M.J.</name>
                  <name>Cash, MC</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                  <name>Cormann, M</name>
                  <name>Day, R.J.</name>
                  <name>Edwards, S</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, DJ</name>
                  <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                  <name>Fifield, MP</name>
                  <name>Heffernan, W</name>
                  <name>Johnston, D</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J</name>
                  <name>Lazarus, GP</name>
                  <name>Leyonhjelm, DE</name>
                  <name>Macdonald, ID</name>
                  <name>Madigan, JJ</name>
                  <name>Mason, B</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                  <name>Muir, R</name>
                  <name>Nash, F</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, B</name>
                  <name>Parry, S</name>
                  <name>Payne, MA</name>
                  <name>Reynolds, L</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A</name>
                  <name>Ryan, SM</name>
                  <name>Seselja, Z</name>
                  <name>Sinodinos, A</name>
                  <name>Wang, Z</name>
                  <name>Williams, JR</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>30</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Bilyk, CL</name>
                  <name>Brown, CL</name>
                  <name>Bullock, J.W.</name>
                  <name>Cameron, DN</name>
                  <name>Dastyari, S</name>
                  <name>Di Natale, R</name>
                  <name>Faulkner, J</name>
                  <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                  <name>Ketter, CR</name>
                  <name>Lines, S</name>
                  <name>Ludlam, S</name>
                  <name>Ludwig, JW</name>
                  <name>Lundy, KA</name>
                  <name>McEwen, A (teller)</name>
                  <name>McLucas, J</name>
                  <name>Milne, C</name>
                  <name>Moore, CM</name>
                  <name>Peris, N</name>
                  <name>Polley, H</name>
                  <name>Rhiannon, L</name>
                  <name>Rice, J</name>
                  <name>Siewert, R</name>
                  <name>Singh, LM</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, AE</name>
                  <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                  <name>Wong, P</name>
                  <name>Wright, PL</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names></names>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to.<br />Bill read a third time.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division></subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>STATEMENT BY THE PRESIDENT</title>
        <page.no>5422</page.no>
        <type>STATEMENT BY THE PRESIDENT</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Wearing of Campaign Material in the Senate</title>
          <page.no>5422</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>23:01</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! Earlier this evening, during debate on the second reading of the Minerals Resource Rent Tax Repeal and Other Measures Bill 2013 [No. 2], Senator Bernardi, who was in the chair, undertook to refer to me a point of order raised about a garment being worn by Senator Ian Macdonald. The garment was bright orange in colour and had a small slogan above the left-hand breast area which read 'Australians for Coal'.</para>
<para>It is very well established by rulings of past presidents, including President Calvert in 2003, that it is not in order to wear in the chamber T-shirts or other clothing bearing slogans. I understand from senators speaking to the point of order that the garments had been distributed to senators by the Minerals Council of Australia, which is behind the Australians for Coal campaign. I understand that the garments bear senators' names on the right-hand breast area.</para>
<para>The basis of these rulings is that the wearing of such garments would allow senators to participate in debate in a non-verbal way, other than by receiving the call from the chair and participating in accordance with the normal rules of the Senate. It would be highly undesirable to have debate in the Senate reduced to the level of displaying such material and I confirm that the wearing of such garments in the Senate is disorderly, regardless of the size of the slogan on the garment.</para>
<para>In a related incident, I understand that Senator Ludlam was called to order by the chair for sitting near Senator Macdonald—so as to be in range of photographers taking shots of the senator with the call—and displaying a sign on a piece of paper. This is disorderly on the same basis. Holding up newspapers or placards or displaying items such as badges with slogans is also disorderly and has been ruled as such by presidents Sibraa and Reid on numerous occasions. Such practices are disruptive of orderly debate by allowing senators to intervene in ways other than by receiving the call from the chair.</para>
<para>I understand that senators have strong views on many issues, but debate in the Senate is subject to simple and reasonable rules to maintain order. I support all rulings by past presidents and I inform senators that they will be called to order in accordance with these rules in the future.</para>
<para>Sitting suspended from 23:04 to 0 9:00</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">Friday, 18 July 2014</inline></para>
<para>The PRESIDENT (Senator the Hon. Stephen Parry) read prayers and made an acknowledgement of country.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>STATEMENTS</title>
        <page.no>5423</page.no>
        <type>STATEMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Ukraine Air Disaster</title>
          <page.no>5423</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:01</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ABETZ</name>
    <name.id>N26</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a short statement regarding the tragic news this morning concerning Malaysia Airlines flight 17.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ABETZ</name>
    <name.id>N26</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Honourable senators will have woken to the news that Malaysia Airlines flight 17, on a flight from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur, has been lost in Ukrainian airspace. The aircraft had 280 passengers and 15 crew. The information we have is that there are no survivors. Dutch authorities have advised that, according to their records, some 27 Australians were on board this aircraft, but final figures are yet to be provided.</para>
<para>There is not much more for me to say at this stage about this very sad news except to express, on behalf of the government and, I am sure, all senators, our sincere condolences to the families of the Australian citizens and all others on the aircraft.</para>
<para>I use this opportunity as well to advise people listening that, if you have concerns for family or friends, you should attempt to contact them directly. If you are unable to contact them and still hold concerns for their welfare, the 24-hour consular emergency contact number of the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade is 1300555135. I thank the Senate.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:02</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—On behalf of opposition senators, I express shock and grief at the fate of Malaysia Airlines flight MH17, and our thoughts are with the families and friends of those who have lost their lives. The loss of Australian lives and the lives of so many others is heart-wrenching.</para>
<para>For those who have lost loved ones today, words cannot suffice. This is a terrible tragedy and it reminds us of what really matters. It reminds us of the preciousness of life, the importance of family, friendship and love.</para>
<para>On behalf of the opposition, I join with the government in offering whatever support we can to those dealing with this dreadful news this morning.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:03</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator MILNE</name>
    <name.id>ka5</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—On behalf of the Australian Greens, I join with the remarks made by Senator Abetz and Senator Wong and express our absolute condolence to everyone affected. Our hearts go out to all those families and friends.</para>
<para>These tragedies have ramifications that go through the whole of society. I understand from the most recent reports that it is understood that at least one expert, and maybe more, coming to Australia for the International AIDS Conference were on board the flight. That means the ramifications go to all the people who are at that conference this weekend. No doubt, as more details emerge, this tragedy will touch many, many Australians.</para>
<para>We join with everyone in the Senate and in the Australian parliament in sending our love and support to everybody who is affected.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I ask honourable senators to join with me in standing in silence as a mark of respect to those who have died in this tragedy.</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">Honourable senators having stood in their places—</inline></para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank honourable senators.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Business</title>
          <page.no>5424</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:05</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—Mr President, given that today, in a Senate sense, is an extension of yesterday and not a typical Senate day, I thought I would briefly take the chamber through the way things are likely to play out. According to the Dynamic Red, we will deal with the Qantas Sale Amendment Bill 2014 and the Land Transport Infrastructure Bill 2014. Last night the House received a message in relation to the Asset Recycling Fund Bill and the Asset Recycling Fund (Consequential Amendments) Bill 2014. The other place did not agree with the amendments made in this place, so that bill will come back to the Senate, which will have the opportunity to insist, or not, on the amendments it made.</para>
<para>The other place will at this stage be meeting at 11 o'clock. They will receive a message in relation to Minerals Resource Rent Tax Repeal and Other Measures Bill 2013. I anticipate that the House will not agree to the amendments made here. In that event, a message will come back and the Senate will have the opportunity to either insist, or not insist, on the amendments made in this place. If the Senate were to insist on the amendments, then that legislation would fail and the mining tax would remain in place.</para>
<para>I should also indicate that Senator Cormann will not be here today and that Senator Abetz will be handling the Asset Recycling Fund Bill and the Minerals Resource Rent Tax Repeal and Other Measures Bill on behalf of the government.</para>
<para>Colleagues will be aware from the <inline font-style="italic">Notice Paper</inline> and also from a message circulated from Senator Abetz's office that Senator Hanson-Young's disallowance motion in relation to the Migration Amendment (2014 Measures No. 1) Regulation 2014 was postponed to the next sitting day. In the ordinary course of events, the next sitting day would have been the first sitting day in August. We have advice from the clerks that, although the Senate would consider today to be a continuation of yesterday, there may be other places that do not hold the same view and, to avoid unintentional consequences, it would be appropriate for the Senate to address that disallowance motion today. At an appropriate point in the course of the day, I will be seeking leave to move a motion to bring that on. At the moment, I would anticipate that that would be at the conclusion of dealing with the Qantas Sale Amendment Bill, the Land Transport Infrastructure Amendment Bill and any messages. However, if there is another juncture in the course of the day that is more appropriate, we will obviously talk to all parties and crossbenches in relation to that. I thought I would indicate the way today is likely to flow.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>5425</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>National Capital and External Territories Committee, Public Works Committee</title>
          <page.no>5425</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Meeting</title>
            <page.no>5425</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:09</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BUSHBY</name>
    <name.id>HLL</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) the Joint Standing Committee on the National Capital and External Territories be authorised to hold a public meeting during the sitting of the Senate today, from 9 am to 11 am, followed by an in camera hearing;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) the Parliamentary Standing Committee on Public Works be authorised to hold a public meeting during the sitting of the Senate today, from 9 am to 11.30 am, followed by an in camera hearing.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BILLS</title>
        <page.no>5425</page.no>
        <type>BILLS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Social Services and Other Legislation Amendment (Seniors Health Card and Other Measures) Bill 2014</title>
          <page.no>5425</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" style="" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" background="">
            <a type="Bill" href="r5222">
              <p style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;" class="HPS-SubDebate">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Social Services and Other Legislation Amendment (Seniors Health Card and Other Measures) Bill 2014</span>
              </p>
            </a>
            <p style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;" class="HPS-Normal">
              <span class="HPS-Normal">Bill received from the House of Representatives.</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>5425</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:10</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill be now read a second time.</para></quote>
<para>I seek leave to have the second reading speech incorporated in <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline>.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">The speech read as follows—</inline></para>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill will implement the Government's election commitment to index income thresholds for the Commonwealth Seniors Health Card.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The seniors health card is available to people who are of age pension age but who do not qualify for the age pension – typically, self-funded retirees.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Qualification for the seniors health card depends partly on a person satisfying the seniors health card taxable income test. Under that test, the person's adjusted taxable income must not exceed the taxable income limit that applies to the person's family situation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Those income limits are currently set at $50,000 for singles and $80,000 for couples.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The taxable income limits are not currently indexed, and have not increased since 2001.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Introducing indexation means more people will satisfy the seniors health card taxable income test and therefore qualify for the seniors health card.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government recognises that self-funded retirees, after a lifetime of hard work, have made a significant contribution to our nation's success. They are entitled to a safe and secure retirement.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We also recognise that, by looking after their own retirement needs, self-funded retirees save the Commonwealth Budget considerable pension costs.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">However, we know that many self-funded retirees are not wealthy and face financial pressures. Those who meet the current income test and therefore hold a seniors health card are rightly concerned about modest changes in retirement income potentially causing them to lose their entitlement to the card.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Unexpected medical bills can be a significant worry for many seniors in that position.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Indexing the current income thresholds so they do not erode in real terms will allow more self-funded retirees to qualify for a seniors health card – or to keep their card despite small increases in their income beyond the current limits.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This means more seniors will be able to access the concessions that come with the card – including medicines listed in the Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme at the concessional rate.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Indexation of the income thresholds will occur annually, starting on 20 September 2014, and will be based on movements in the Consumer Price Index.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This measure applies to the seniors health card under either the Social Security Act 1991 or the Veterans' Entitlements Act 1986.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill will also make minor and technical amendments to portfolio Acts, including reflecting changed public service administrative arrangements.</para></quote>
<para>Ordered that further consideration of the second reading of this bill be adjourned to the first sitting day of the next period of sittings, in accordance with standing order 111.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Qantas Sale Amendment Bill 2014</title>
          <page.no>5426</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" style="" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" background="">
            <a type="Bill" href="r5187">
              <p style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;" class="HPS-SubDebate">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Qantas Sale Amendment Bill 2014</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>5426</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp> (New South Wales) (09:11):</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Firstly, could I personally associate myself with the remarks made by Senator Wong, Senator Abetz and Senator Milne in relation to Flight MH17 and express my condolences to the families and friends of all who have been lost in this terrible tragedy.</para>
<para>Labor will not be supporting the repeal of part 3 of the Qantas Sale Act. The consequences of this legislation risk the break-up of Qantas—it is just that simple. The legislation allows for Qantas international to be separated from Qantas domestic. Labor does not support these changes. Labor supports keeping Qantas Australian, not because it is a national icon but because it is in our national interest. Keeping Qantas Australian does not just mean in terms of ownership. It also means keeping its operational base here in Australia—and I am sure other senators will talk about the implications of the operational base being maintained within this country. It means keeping its head office in Australia. It means keeping its board in Australia.</para>
<para>I remember some years ago reading an article about the emergence of the 'virtual airline'. That meant you simply had a name—and in this case the name would be Qantas—but all of the airline would be operated remotely from where the airline was based. The maintenance would be done overseas, the catering could be flown in, the administrative work could be done overseas and the flight attendants hired overseas. All of these issues were outlined as being where some in the airline industry wanted the industry to go. This became the 'virtual airline'.</para>
<para>Well, I want an Australian airline. Labor wants an Australian airline. We do not want a virtual airline. The problem we have is that the coalition, after telling people in the lead-up to the election that they wanted to keep the iconic Australian airline, Qantas, in Australian hands, when they are in office again it is a different story. This is a government that cannot be trusted. It cannot be trusted to hold to its word on almost anything. It has lied its way into power, it continues to lie in government, it continues to cover up the implications of the decisions it makes—and the Australian public are saying, 'We do not trust you.</para>
<para>The Australian public are correct in saying that they want to maintain Qantas in Australian hands, and they are correct in not trusting this government to maintain Qantas in Australian hands.</para>
<para>The repeal of part 3 of the Qantas Sale Act means that what they said before the election will not be delivered after the election. We need Qantas to be Australian based. We need it for a whole range of issues: to maintain jobs in Australia and to maintain skills in Australia for our security both on a domestic and a regional basis. We want the Qantas group and its 300,000 workers to still call Australia home. The Abbott government on the other hand could not care less if its changes export jobs and leave the door open for what shadow transport minister Albanese has called the 'flying kangaroo becoming the flying panda or the flying camel'.</para>
<para>The coalition has been all over the place on its position on this important issue, an issue that impacts on the job security of thousands of Australians. Back in December the Deputy Prime Minister said that there was no support amongst the Australian people for these changes. Well, Deputy Prime Minister, you are right. When the Labor government proposed making modest changes to the Qantas Sale Act that would keep Qantas in Australian hands but reduce restrictions on foreign investment in the airline, guess what? The coalition opposed it.</para>
<para>The now Treasurer, Mr Hockey, said that any reduction in the restrictions on foreign ownership was not in the 'national interest'. The Nationals leader and now Deputy Prime Minister, Mr Warrant Truss, said in 2009:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Loss of effective Australian control could leave Australia without an airline primarily committed to our interests. What safeguards will be put in place for the Australian flying public, particularly those in regional areas?</para></quote>
<para>This care for Qantas remaining in Australian hands is now gone. It is typical of this untrustworthy government. What a shock that the Nationals feign interest in regional Australia while in opposite and then roll over, as the doormats that they are, to their Liberal masters in government.</para>
<para>In February the Treasurer indicated that a request from the national carrier for government support would be viewed favourably. This was then withdrawn by the government, and the legislation that we are now debating was put forward. It is another shambles by a government that is demonstrating, day in, day out, an incapacity to govern effectively, an incapacity to deal with the big issues for Australians, in a mature and competent manner. It is a government that is a shambles, and people are getting used to it.</para>
<para>The opposition has consistently said they will consider proposals from the government on their merit, including but not limited to a debt guarantee, at a reasonable cost to Qantas, or a small equity stake. We do not accept Prime Minister Abbott's argument that you must export jobs to save them. That is what he said. On 3 March Tony Abbott said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">If some jobs have to go offshore … it may be regrettable but nevertheless it is the best way to guarantee Australian jobs for the long term.</para></quote>
<para>That right! You have to kill Australian jobs to save them. What absolute nonsense. What the Prime Minister fails to understand, and this government collectively fails to understand, is that aviation is not a level playing field. There are not too many governments around the world saying that they should kill highly skilled aviation jobs to save other jobs. They are not doing that. It seems to be a development only being pursued by the conservatives in this country—to kill manufacturing jobs, to kill highly skilled maintenance jobs, to kill jobs that give ordinary Australians an opportunity to feed their family, pay the rent and send their kids to school. They just treat jobs in a flippant manner. It is all done on the basis of some ideological argument, some theoretical argument that does not make any sense. That is the problem with this mob over here. They just do not understand, outside this ideological, theoretical base that they have, what is important for Australia, what is important for Australian families and what is important for our jobs.</para>
<para>As I indicated, it is not a level playing field. Labor recognises that there is not a level playing field out there. Last November, Virgin needed an injection of capital and received that injection from its partner airlines—Etihad, Air New Zealand and Singapore Airlines—all supported by their respective governments. But this mob, because they have an ideology that says, 'The market will fix everything; just leave it to the market', are saying there will be no government support, no government intervention. They do not even look at what is happening with the most successful airlines in the world. They believe that the market will resolve everything. That just denies the reality that around the world the top airlines are majority-owned by their governments. Emirates, Qatar Airways, Singapore Airlines and the three big Chinese airlines are all supported by their governments. These facts are ignored by this ideologically driven, incompetent Abbott government.</para>
<para>The Qantas Sale Act preserves Qantas's status as an Australian based carrier. This is important because nation-states use their national carriers to arrange air service agreements with other nation-states under the Chicago convention. The act requires Qantas to be based in Australia, to have an Australian board and to locate the majority of its international operations in Australia. This keeps Qantas Australian and the majority of its employees Australian based.</para>
<para>One of the knock-on effects of the act is that Qantas operates more extensively on regional routes. Changes to the Qantas Sale Act could put so much of this at risk. As the Senate inquiry into this bill established, amendments could prompt the airline to move its maintenance or other facilities offshore, risking tens of thousands of jobs.</para>
<para>I know, Acting Deputy President Sterle, that you were deeply involved in the inquiry. It said that changes to the act would mean that current levels of air service to regional Australia could be reduced, the Qantas name would not have to be used for international services, the head office would not have to be in Australia and the board would no longer have to be at least two-thirds composed of Australians. Labor will not allow these provisions to be taken out of the legislation as this incompetent government proposes. Labor will move an amendment to remove the 35 per cent and 25 per cent sublimits on foreign ownership, but we will retain the requirement for at least 51 per cent of ownership of Qantas by Australians and the other elements of part 3 that give Qantas its Australian character.</para>
<para>Labor's position on removing the 35 per cent and 25 per cent restrictions reflect a recommendation supported by the Labor government arising from the 2009 aviation white paper. This followed thorough consultation with the transport and tourism industry. The recommendation was that Qantas should stay in majority Australian hands but that we should consider repealing the sections of the act relating to the 35 per cent rule and the 25 per cent rule—the shareholding limits on a single owner who is not Australian and on ownership of Qantas by other airlines.</para>
<para>That is what we are proposing today. Unlike the coalition, Labor has been fully consistent on this matter. Labor unequivocally stands for Australian jobs. Qantas has the safest record of airlines around the world and it is known for it. The debate is not about sentiment; it is about economic interest. If you allow Australia to be ripped out of Qantas, you are ripping up an icon. Shipping Qantas overseas is not in our national interest. I urge the Senate to support our amendments and vote down the government's changes—changes that will send Australian jobs overseas and destroy the Flying Kangaroo.</para>
<para>I come to this debate with some involvement with Qantas over many years. I was very pleased to represent maintenance employees at Qantas in bargaining with that airline over a number of years to ensure that there was reasonable wages, reasonable conditions for the highly skilled workers at Qantas. But I can tell you that in every bargaining round that I was involved in, whether it was under James Strong or Geoff Dixon—luckily I did not have the pleasure to do it under Alan Joyce, but I did under James Strong and Geoff Dixon—the threat was always there: that if Qantas had the ability to send their maintenance overseas, they would send their maintenance overseas.</para>
<para>The cost of maintenance in some of these giant regional maintenance hubs was argued as being substantially less than the cost was in Australia. But there was always a realisation by the Qantas management that the reputation of Qantas was too important to send the maintenance overseas—not just some of the senior management, but the technical managers within Qantas that I spoke to over the years were always concerned about increasing the length of the decision making in maintenance from Australia out into Asia. You had better control, better quality control, better support for your maintenance facilities if you are making the decisions within Australia.</para>
<para>Even though there was always that implied threat that if we could do this we would, and some maintenance was sent overseas, the Qantas Act maintained the core of Australian maintenance jobs within Australia. Those jobs are very high skilled jobs in maintenance. As we have seen this mob over here vandalise the manufacturing sector by basically daring GM to get out of Australia, daring Toyota to get out of Australia, we see more and more high-skilled jobs within Australia being exported overseas. That is what would happen if this bill ever became a reality.</para>
<para>There is a wide range of work done within the maintenance area. I am sure that we will hear from other senators about the skills in other areas, but I am familiar with the maintenance area. We do routine maintenance checks when the planes come in, we do minor and major airframe repairs, we do structural inspections, we do corrosive prevention and control programs, we do ageing aircraft inspections, we do aircraft modification and refurbishment. We do the whole box and dice. We do non-destructive testing, sheet metal work, composite and carbon fibre, fitting and machining, hoses and tubes, cabin maintenance, chair maintenance, paint and surface restoration—and it goes on. The skills within Australia are enormous in this area.</para>
<para>What would happen if this incompetent government had their way? Qantas would be opened up to be sold and there would be no checks and balances about maintaining those skills within Australia. I am now convinced that this rabble that call themselves a government have no idea what it is to look after skilled jobs in this country. They get their theoretical economic books out. They look at the economic theory and say, 'This is how the theory works,' and they do not give a damn about ordinary Australians. They do not give a damn about how Australians live. They do not give a damn about how they survive. You only have to look at their budget, where they hammer the aged, where they hammer seniors and where they come after those who cannot look after themselves. It is the poor who take the belting. We do not support this bill because ordinary Australian will suffer the consequences. We will oppose it all the way. I hope those on the crossbenches and the other parties support Labor maintaining Qantas in Australian hands.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:31</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RHIANNON</name>
    <name.id>CPR</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Greens are firmly committed to keeping Qantas Australian owned. We argue the case because we need a national carrier. It is vital that so many of these jobs remain in Australia. With that comes a very high skill base that we must not lose. Then there are the economic and security benefits. The bill before us does not achieve that. In fact, the bill would undermine it and Qantas could in no way be called Australian if this bill were allowed to pass in its current form.</para>
<para>We have major problems with this bill. If passed, it would result in undermining safety standards, there would be massive job losses and a foreign takeover would be on the cards. The coalition's plan, long touted in boardrooms and also the cabinet room, to offshore Qantas, along with the jobs of thousands of Qantas workers, should end and it should end today.</para>
<para>However, what I understand Labor are bringing forward is concerning. I heard a very strong speech from Senator Cameron. I certainly acknowledge the work that he has done with Qantas workers over the years, in terms of protecting jobs and ensuring better conditions, but, when you look at the deal that Labor have done with the coalition on the issue of foreign ownership, it would take Qantas one step closer to greater foreign ownership, opening it up to one individual, one foreign airline or one foreign government owned airline to have much greater control over Qantas. Under Labor's amendments, there would still be 55 per cent Australian ownership. That is a very dangerous weakening and it is disappointing that the deal has been done with the coalition. I very much hope that Labor senators will listen closely to the debate, because it could be otherwise. If Labor work with Greens, Senator Xenophon and the other crossbenchers, we could ensure greater protection for Qantas and could get it back onto more solid footing.</para>
<para>I also want to pay credit to the Qantas workforce and their unions for organising, lobbying and protesting, not just for their jobs but for the retention of Qantas as the national carrier. They are on the front line. They can see the value of this airline across the board—how integral it has been to Australian society for so long, and that should be retained. I have had the opportunity to meet with Qantas workers on a number of occasions—workers from call centres, maintenance workers and workers in other parts of the aircraft industry, as well as pilots, and they have certainly set out a very clear case about how damaging the government's plans would be if they were allowed to open this airline up to foreign ownership.</para>
<para>When you get into this issue, one of the favourite terms that you will hear from the government, the coalition, senior management and particularly the CEO, Alan Joyce, is 'a level playing field'—that is their starting point—but what we have here does not create a level playing field. Qantas would be left competing against overseas airlines that are backed to the hilt by their own governments. This is the extraordinary contradiction here. This government wants to open it up so that foreign airlines that are owned by foreign governments can buy a part of our airline. That shoots down this whole idea of a level playing field.</para>
<para>Qantas's view of a level playing field means the right to be fully owned by a foreign government owned airline. That is how it would play out. The single most effective measure for levelling the playing field upwards would be for the government to assist Qantas. This is something we have raised throughout this year as this debate has intensified. Having more government assistance for Qantas would ensure there was a much fairer way for Qantas to be managed. The Australian government backing Qantas would, in our view, stop the inevitable break-up of the airline as well as underpin its viability, protect jobs and support tourism. In the 21st century, a national airline needs to have a much closer relationship with its government.</para>
<para>I will come to some very interesting experiences, particularly with regard to New Zealand and how they have handled this. I mentioned the CEO, Alan Joyce, earlier. When you come to debate these issues, you cannot leave him out of any discussion. The Qantas CEO played a dominant role in the highly orchestrated debate about the future of our national airline that played out in the media and parliamentary inquiries earlier this year. Let's remember how Mr Joyce went from mourning the possible demise of Qantas and the huge number of jobs that would have to go to describing the airline as 'extremely healthy'. Those were his words. He really has done a disservice—we should be working together to ensure the viability of Qantas as the national carrier.</para>
<para>Now I come to part 3 of the Qantas Sale Act. If it was repealed, the most likely outcome would be the wholesale takeover of Qantas by one or more foreign government owned airlines. That would then bring a stream of job losses. When Mr Joyce has been questioned about this, he has refused to rule out further offshoring and casualisation of the workforce if part 3A goes ahead. This is very important: he has always refused to answer this when we have questioned him. He is very good with language but not very good at being exact, up-front and answering questions properly. Certainly he has added to the Greens concerns.</para>
<para>We had two inquiries into Qantas. One of the committees was presented with concerning evidence relating to poor financial and strategic decisions made by Qantas management, particularly in relation to Jetstar Asia. Qantas workers should not have to pay the price for poor management decisions, but that is effectively what is playing out here. There have been poor management decisions and the government is now coming forward for its own ideological reasons but also because it is judging that this is how it has to respond to determine the future of Qantas. But it will be the workers of Qantas who will be hit if this bill goes forward in its current form.</para>
<para>There is scope for Qantas to be viable and kept Australian without the airline being broken up and offshored. I want to share some of the comments that came to us from Professor Frank Stilwell and also the Transport Workers Union. In this debate we need to remember that we could have done this in a different way, and the amendments we will be considering later will go some way towards correcting the problems that we now have before us. Professor Frank Stilwell has said that:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The current QANTAS crisis is clearly attributable to the senior management and board who have caused the present crisis by a range of inappropriate policies. These policy failures have included narrowing the customer base by abandoning key overseas destinations … unwisely establishing loss-making Asian Jetstar airlines; reducing confidence in service standards by outsourcing much of the aircraft maintenance …</para></quote>
<para>They are some of the issues that Professor Stillwell has identified. The submission from the Transport Workers Union points out that, of the 10 tough conditions for Qantas, it is interesting to note that all of its competitors share seven. Sustained high fuel prices and ability to implement a good fuel hedging strategy applies to all airlines, not just Qantas. Economic volatility applies to all airlines, not just Qantas. Capacity growth outstripping demand applies to all airlines, not just Qantas. Slow demand growth associated with the resources slowdown applies to all airlines, not just Qantas. That, I think, is very informative in terms of highlighting how deceptive and misleading so much of the statements that have come from senior Qantas management have been and why we should not be relying on them when we are looking at how we go forward with this bill that is now before us.</para>
<para>We also need to consider the position of the Labor response here. It is not surprising that the government would bring forward a bill that really is about selling off Qantas. That should be the endgame. But many people, particularly workers from the industry, whom I have met on a number of occasions, expect something different. I believe most people would expect something different. If you listen to the words that have come from the former minister responsible for Qantas and the current opposition spokesperson, Mr Albanese and Senator Cameron, you would think it is otherwise, but we need to look at the detail of what is in their proposal. Their proposal before us today in amendment would undermine Qantas as a publicly owned national carrier. It would really open Qantas up to greater foreign ownership, taking it one step further down the road of total foreign ownership.</para>
<para>It is timely to remember that it is Labor that has driven the very undermining of Qantas. From 1947 to 1993 Qantas was fully government owned, and that time is when Qantas developed that fantastic international record of top safety standards. With a fully unionised workforce, the workers had secure, reasonably paid jobs. But then you hit the 1990s, and things start to change. This was under former Prime Minister Bob Hawke. He announced his intention to sell off 49 per cent of the airline. This is what you have seen since the 1990s: Labor driving down Qantas operations in this country. It was in 1993 that the Labor government put $1.35 billion into Qantas just one month before it sold 25 per cent of the airline to British Airways for $665 million. Qantas at the time held 40 per cent market share of international travel to and from Australia. The remaining 75 per cent of the airline was sold in a public float in 1995. Remember: this is all when Labor was in power. The total sale price for the airline was just $2.1 billion.</para>
<para>That really did cause a lot of disquiet at the time. This was in the period of the 1990s when Labor was starting to move forward on quite an extensive privatisation agenda. There was some interesting analysis. I want to share some comments from economics professor John Quiggin writing in <inline font-style="italic">The Canberra Times </inline>on 10 July 1995. He said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">If the government believes its own prospectus, it should certainly not be selling.</para></quote>
<para>According to Quiggin, the share offer was so underpriced it amounted to a giveaway of public assets. Three years after privatisation Qantas shares were worth 49 per cent more than the government sold them for, giving shareholders an increase of 160 per cent return on their investment. And what happened after privatisation? Qantas management went after its workforce, outsourcing and competitively tendering every aspect of the business. And what was the result then? Working conditions were undermined.</para>
<para>So, again, I do pay credit. I know that, when Senator Cameron was out there as a union official, he was working for this not to happen. But it was the Labor government that opened up Qantas to foreign ownership and has taken step after step to increase that foreign ownership. If they do this deal with the coalition today, it is one further step down that track.</para>
<para>The privatisation of government airlines has gone hand in hand with the deregulation of the industry. This was justified by the argument that free competition would lower prices and give customers more choice. Now, to some extent we see that is true, but we always need to get the balance right and that is what the Greens are saying. We are not against competition. We want customers to have a good choice, but we also need to ensure that safety standards are maintained, that working conditions are maintained and that this industry does not come to live off a casualised workforce.</para>
<para>The outcome of Labor's amendments, to get into the detail, is that they would allow overseas government-owned airlines—such as Emirates, Singapore Airlines and China Southern Airlines—to own up to 40 per cent of Qantas. Our Senate inquiry heard evidence of the domination of government-owned and government-backed airlines in the aviation market. Seven out of 10 of the largest carriers by market share in our region are partially or wholly government owned. I made this point earlier and I will make it again, because I think it is one of the huge ironies of this: at a time when the Australian government is really trying to back out fast from any association with Qantas, what they are opening up is for government-owned foreign airlines to take Qantas over.</para>
<para>Yes, the Greens do want a level playing field. I spoke about the huge contradictions in the so-called level playing field that the government and the senior Qantas management talk about. We want the real level playing field and we can do that by ensuring that government assistance is available to Qantas as well, potentially in the form of an ownership stake or a debt guarantee. These are the things that we should have explored. We just put them on the table and said that these should be there for consideration. Such options would allow the government to financially assist Qantas in the short term, as well as impose some conditions on the airline to ensure it is acting in the best interests of its workers and the Australian public.</para>
<para>The repeal of the Qantas Sale Act would lead to the inevitable break-up of the airline and will also lead to large-scale job losses in Australia. That really is inevitable. It will also lead to the diminution of Australia's aviation industry, which is an industry that we should be looking to build up. We have built up expertise over the years and that should be consolidated. But if this bill goes through, in its current form or with Labor's amendments, that will be at risk.</para>
<para>The Greens have particular concerns that Qantas is likely to be snapped up by another airline, as I have said. But it could be otherwise, and I did just want to share what happened in New Zealand. The government could act as the New Zealand government did. The New Zealand government backed its national airline by taking a large stake in it. It is worth looking at some of the dollar figures here: interestingly, earlier this year Air New Zealand posted a record first-half net profit of NZ$140 million, which was up 40 per cent on the same period a year earlier.</para>
<para>This could be a win-win outcome. If the government took a more active role in Qantas, we believe that it would be the single most effective way of levelling the playing field upwards. That is what we should be working on, by making Qantas more equal with its predominantly government-backed competitors. That would put our national carrier on the runway to a bright, viable and prosperous future. We should be considering ways to ensure that Qantas remains a strong national carrier that is supporting aviation jobs in Australia. That is what we should be considering before us today.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:49</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator EDWARDS</name>
    <name.id>225307</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I join with all my Senate colleagues here this morning to express my deep dismay and sadness at the loss of flight MH17 and the tragic loss of life that has occurred. The ramifications of that will reverberate around the world today.</para>
<para>The changes the government seeks to make to the Qantas Sale Act are for one purpose and one purpose only: to allow Qantas to compete with other international carriers on a level playing field in the same legislative environment. My personal view is that these amendments are still too little. Currently Qantas must be substantially owned and controlled by Australians, must be chaired by an Australian, have two-thirds of its board comprised of Australians, must have its head office in Australia and must have its operational base in Australia. These are unprecedented conditions for any airline to operate in a global aviation industry in this modern world. Qantas's competitors face no such burdens. All we on this side of the chamber seek is the same for Qantas.</para>
<para>But, today, Labor stands opposed to the change—no doubt a reflection on the stranglehold of Labor's union partners who, it must be said, are setting the agenda on this matter. Indeed, the unions are a significant part of Qantas's problem. They are showing themselves as relics of a workplace that was reformed a generation ago. As the union movement struggles for relevance, it has deliberately targeted an iconic airline to publicly champion its bullyboy tactics.</para>
<para>We should be under no illusion of the inevitable outcome should we deny Qantas its level playing field. In recent years, Qantas has conducted redundancy program after redundancy program. The unions should be open in their minds to the modern aviation industry, should move with the times to ensure that Qantas remains fleet footed like its competitors and should protect their members' future job prospects by ensuring Qantas remains competitive and, importantly, profitable.</para>
<para>Others in this place indulge arguments such as Qantas's status as a flag-carrier airline, but Australian governments no longer rely on Qantas as a strategic asset in the manner they once did. The traditional notion of a flag-carrying airline today is obsolete. While not constrained by such legislative commercial restrictions, Virgin still has 95 per cent of its workforce Australian based. The reality is that running an airline in Australia today will always require a large proportion of Australian based workers. If this action were not taken, the alternative may well be no Qantas and no workers at all.</para>
<para>For my mind, this bill does not go far enough, but real reform was not in Labor's mind. I have no clue why Labor believes government has a right to interfere with legislative restriction on an airline the government sold 22 years ago. I commend the bill to the chamber.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:52</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LUDWIG</name>
    <name.id>84N</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak against the Qantas Sale Amendment Bill 2014. Just a kilometre from my office in Brisbane, on 16 November 1920, Qantas was established at the Gresham Hotel. I could head to Longreach, the city where I was born, where Qantas struggled against the elements to build the airline it is today. It now struggles against a different set of challenges—one of them is the Abbott government. This government is single-handedly dismantling the icon of Australia. Holden has been sold down the river by this government. SPC Ardmona was left for dead by this government. Qantas cannot be confined to history yet though. The government could be doing so much more than it is doing. Only Labor has been standing up for Australian jobs, industry and the community. It seems like the conservative side of politics is deemed to repeat the same mistakes over and over again.</para>
<para>This government could learn a lot from history and the experience of countries overseas. There are a number of countries that have experienced a resource boom like Australia. The Dutch discovered a large supply of gas in 1959—a windfall that had unexpected negative long-term consequences. Initially, there was increased investment, infrastructure and income; however, the longer term consequences were less benign. The discovery of natural resources led to problems for the Dutch. Their currency appreciated and resulted in a decrease in their price competitiveness for foreign export exposed industries. It also resulted in an increase in imports of goods and services. This was famously called the 'Dutch disease'.</para>
<para>In the long run, these factors can contribute to industries and jobs being moved to lower cost countries—but they are not inevitable. The parallels with the situation in Australia are obvious. Under the stewardship of the former Treasurer, Mr Wayne Swan, Australia became a haven for investors wishing to find a safe place in the global financial storm. As the former Treasurer said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… when you look at the strength of the Australian dollar, it reflects the strength of our domestic growth relative to other developed economies, it reflects the fact that our terms of trade are still very high and it reflects that fact that many people and investors around the world now see Australia as a safe haven.</para></quote>
<para>The former Treasurer, Mr Swan, had foresight enough to acknowledge that the high Australian dollar had a negative impact on some industries. The term he used was the 'patchwork economy'.</para>
<para>The minerals resource rent tax was part of Labor's plan to make sure that the benefits of the mining boom could be spread to all Australians, including industries such as tourism that were impacted on by the high Australian dollar. Mining remains an important part of the Australian economy, but this is no reason to let other industries wither on the vine from neglect. Let me be clear about this: we need a plan for those industries impacted on by the high Australian dollar. As the <inline font-style="italic">Australian Financial Review</inline> has reported, there are many factors affecting the performance of Qantas as an international airline but foremost among these is the high Australian dollar. Qantas is facing tough conditions. A high Australian dollar is increasing costs. As the Qantas chief executive Alan Joyce said: 'The dollar puts pressure on all of us to be competitive in a global context.' These are undeniable facts, but the future is not decided.</para>
<para>The government needs a plan for jobs, a plan for Australia's future and a plan for the longer term. Why is there a need? Why not let Qantas go or let these industries fail? What is wrong with the short-sighted view of the government? The answer is that the high Australian dollar is unlikely to be with us forever. The answer is that once Qantas is gone it will be gone forever. It will be the same for manufacturing. Israel is going through a similar process at the moment. A huge discovery of natural gas off the coast of Israel has pushed up the new shekel. The government there has responded by direct intervention in the currency market to make sure that Israel's industries are protected from the worst of the currency effects.</para>
<para>I am not advocating for this sort of intervention in the market for Australia, but it stands in stark contrast to this government, which is sticking its head in the sand and continuing to remain there, pretending that nothing is actually occurring. The government still wants to follow these UK down the austerity path, but if it does that it will be doomed to repeat history's failures.</para>
<para>Margaret Thatcher is someone this government would love to follow, I suspect. As we heard from new Senator McGrath this week, the lessons from the UK's experience following the discovery of the North Sea oil are salient. What was initially considered a blessing became the death knell for many British industries. The lesson from history is that the re-creation of industries from scratch is almost impossible. The skilled workers of Qantas, once lost, will be gone forever. Their skills will be gone. Over time, the knowledge will disappear. The machinery, factories and infrastructure will be dismantled and sold overseas or left to rust. The future of the Australian dollar is uncertain, but most economists do not expect the Australian dollar to remain at its current high level over the longer term. We need a plan now that does not result in irreversible loss of skills, knowledge and infrastructure from Australia.</para>
<para>Mr Tony Abbott seems to be determined to lead a party which will destroy an airline business each time it can. It was Ansett in 2001 and Australian Airlines in 2006. Now the Liberals are back in and it is Qantas that is staring down the barrel. They have destroyed an airline each time they have got into government, and it must be something they should be patting themselves on the back for—like their group hug when climate action was reversed. Ignoring the facts will not save the jobs. This government looks backward and fights old wars, and seems stuck in the past when you look at its current way of dealing with troubles. Generals always prepare to fight the last war and old enemies, but this government is worse—it is always Work Choices for the coalition and their continuing battle against working Australians. This battle will not help Qantas and Australian industries fight against global macro-economic forces, but the government continues to want to pluck that same string again and again—let's blame unions, let's blame workers, let's blame everybody else, but let's do nothing to address the issues that are confronting them.</para>
<para>The cuts already announced touch workers in airport staff, cabin crew, engineering and other areas. These 5,000 job cuts are just starting. This is 5,000 full-time equivalent positions, which will mean more than 5,000 job losses—more than 5,000 families who will struggle to pay their mortgage. And who thinks that this will be the end? If the Abbott government sends Qantas overseas, the jobs of those workers who give it one of the best safety records in the world will follow. And what of the 300 line maintenance positions that have been cut in Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane and Adelaide? The actions of the Abbott government have already led to safety concerns and increased auditing by CASA. Crikey.com.au—not something I generally report through—reported that CASA is undertaking increased auditing and surveillance of Qantas, including on-the-spot checks during this period of change. If CASA is worried about these changes, how much worse will it be for the impact of Qantas maintenance staff being offshored? The short-sightedness of the government regarding Qantas parallels the short-sightedness of the repeal of the company loss carry-back provisions in the minerals resource rent tax—the company loss carry-back is favoured by both business and unions, yet is being removed.</para>
<para>With SPC-Ardmona we saw an attack on workers' pay and conditions. You do wonder whether or not in reality this is the old conservative force on their crusade, on their charger again, blaming workers and blaming unions. One can only speculate as to the motives, but it seems that the current government is willing in this instance to cut off its nose to spite its face. The question is: what is the principle that it stands for? What does the coalition stand for in this debate? I can only guess that it is willing to let companies, big or small, go to the wall so that it can attack the rights of workers. This time it demands action by a proactive government to look at their armoury in the Treasury portfolio, in the Finance portfolio and in the Industry portfolio to see what they can do. We need a plan for infrastructure, a plan for jobs and a plan for the future.</para>
<para>Another feature of this bill is that it seeks to change the English language, and you do think it is a little Orwellian when you then start to see how the coalition wants to do that. The bill seeks to change the definition of an Australian international airline. Perhaps they will also change the words 'made in Australia' and save Australian-made cars too. I think not. Perhaps they will change the definition of Australian fruit. Perhaps we can change the definition of old-growth forests to the wooden bookcase in Senator Brandis's office. All of that is very Orwellian from this coalition government.</para>
<para>But there are some realities which are a little harder to explain away. The workers, the passengers and the Australian people will not be fooled by the coalition's double-speak on this issue. You cannot change the fact the 5,000 jobs are going. They will not be fooled by changing the definition of an Australian airline and they will not be fooled when the pay cheques stop coming in. What workers do get is the bottom line— they do get the end of the road when they get heaved out onto the scrap heap and what that actually means. Big government, like this coalition government, does not care a jot. The passengers who choose Qantas because it is Australian will not be fooled about it. They will want, and will continue to want, an Australian airline representing their interests and their safety record for a long time to come.</para>
<para>Examining this bill and its explanatory memorandum, I noticed the financial impact statement. The statement describes the impact of the bill on the budget. It states—again, I think this is a little Orwellian from this coalition government—'The bill will have no financial impact.' I think that one sentence sums up what is wrong with this government. They have a view where they cannot see beyond the next budget. They have a narrow view of what is in the national interest. This is a government that is run by myopic accountants and a few twisted individuals with twisted priorities. They have a narrow view of the national interest. They do not see the value in the history of Qantas. They do not see the value in a national carrier. They do not see the value in maintaining 5,000 jobs in Australia. What is worse—and what I think is really the worst case—is that they have no plan for the future and they have no plan for jobs.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:06</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WHISH-WILSON</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Edwards made a statement that the changes that we are dealt with in this bill are for one purpose and one purpose only, and that is to allow Qantas to survive. In my opinion, having sat on the inquiry by the Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport References Committee and having taken an active interest in this along with my colleague Senator Rhiannon, the one purpose and one purpose only of these changes to the Qantas Sale Act is to get the share price of Qantas up.</para>
<para>Nearly four years ago, Qantas's share price was around $3 a share. That was at a time when they had very similar operating conditions to what they do now in terms of fuel prices, a high Australian dollar and capacity issues around the global financial crisis. Yet the company seemed to be travelling quite well and the share market had given their tick of approval. So what has happened in the last three or four years that has led Qantas's share price into a death spiral? I say 'death spiral' because it is very important in relation to this debate as the company's share price continues to collapse. When Qantas went cap in hand to the government to have discussions with them about changes to the Qantas act, especially to section(7) of part 3 of the act, their share price had fallen below $1.</para>
<para>As a company's share price goes lower, their cost of capital changes, it becomes higher, especially their cost of equity. So as the share price collapses the cost of equity ratchets up, which means that it is more expensive or difficult for a company to issue shares and raise capital. If you add that to the cost of debt, you get a weighted average cost of capital. Clearly it is a serious issue for companies because when they get to a point where their cost of equity is prohibitive then quite often we see them go into bankruptcy and we see them collapse.</para>
<para>The issue here is: why is Qantas's share price in collapse? I looked at it this morning before I came in to speak here. It jumped 20 to 30 per cent and then it started to fall again. It is around $1.24 now. But at the time that Qantas came to the government and when we had our Senate inquiries the share price was around $1. It was firmly in this death spiral.</para>
<para>By opening up the shareholder caps and removing the 49 per cent restrictions, this did not necessarily allow foreign carriers to buy into Qantas—because I actually do not believe any are particularly interested in buying into Qantas. Mr Joyce himself made that clear in the Senate inquiry. I will get to the possibility of a merger with British Airways in a second, because the tips he gave the inquiry seemed to indicate that that was where he thought Qantas might be heading in the future. It is very clear that there are not necessarily any international carriers interested at the moment, but the 49 per cent cap, if it were removed, would particularly allow large foreign pension funds, hedge funds, mutual funds and investment funds to buy into Qantas and push the share price up. As the share price goes up, that takes the pressure off the CEO and certainly enhances his own personal options that he has been issued in Qantas, and of course, it changes Qantas's cost of capital and takes a lot of pressure off the operations of the company.</para>
<para>Looking at Labor's proposed amendments to this bill, which the government apparently has agreed to, the total foreign ownership of Qantas is not to exceed 49 per cent—so there is no change there. It is interesting that a single foreign investor can now buy up to 49 per cent and aggregate foreign ownership by foreign airlines is not to exceed 49 per cent, which makes sense. I actually do not quite know how that would work in share market terms. I am not sure how you could stop the overall ownership exceeding 49 per cent and yet have at the same time another foreign carrier coming in and buying shares on the market. You would have to make a very interesting takeover offer or you would have to sit in the market or make an off-market offer. I am not quite sure how that would work without exceeding that overall 49 per cent cap.</para>
<para>Nevertheless, like Senator Rhiannon said, the Greens are relieved that common sense has prevailed here and Qantas will remain an Australian carrier. The 5,000 jobs and the expertise will remain here. Of course, the issue of safety with maintenance, which was raised during the Senate inquiry, is a very serious one, with issues we have already seen in offshore centres.</para>
<para>Thinking back to the Senate inquiry, it was, I suppose, a time when I lost my innocence around the committee system. I have been on some fantastic inquiries and Senator Sterle has done a fine job on some inquiries I have been on. But on that day in Sydney there was a cast of thousands and it really did seem like a mud-throwing exercise. We did not get to the heart of the issues as I expected we would; we did not have enough time. But when I got my opportunity I asked Mr Joyce straight off the bat: 'Do you still want an interest-free loan—are you still seeking a debt guarantee from the government?' His response was: 'It's not on the table anymore. The government has made it clear it's not an option, so I'm not going to discuss it.' I said: 'Mr Joyce, with all due respect, we're the Senate—we're not the government, necessarily—and we're here to see what we can do to help you.' If you think about that share price collapse from $3 to $1 and the issues we were discussing in the inquiry around this dogfight that Qantas is having with Virgin on capacity and trying to compete on volume, this was a clear strategy that the company had taken, which was putting it under significant pressure because Virgin does have government owned backers and it does have access to capital that Qantas does not have. It did make sense that Qantas would go to the government wanting some sort of financing assistance, possibly a debt-free loan.</para>
<para>So I, Senator Rhiannon and the Greens felt that the inquiry should have explored all financing options, including the government taking a stake in Qantas. As Senator Rhiannon eloquently told the chamber this morning, this would put them on a level playing field. If you want to talk about level playing fields, the reality is that seven out of 10 foreign airlines in the region are government owned, wholly or partially.</para>
<para>There is a reason governments invest in airlines, and it is a fundamental one. Governments have a role to play in providing essential services and infrastructure, and they have a role to play when there is market failure. I think you could probably sit down and apply both of those principles to government ownership in Qantas. It is something that makes a lot of sense once you get around the rhetoric and the ideology that governments should not be in airlines or other businesses. It is claptrap. There is a role for government to play in essential services such as transport to and from a large continent like Australia. This is why the New Zealand government and other governments around the world still have a stake in their airlines, let alone the fact that airlines and the expertise and skills around having that industry base in your country have all sorts of other national implications which were explored by the inquiry.</para>
<para>However, I was disappointed that we did not get to look in enough detail at what exactly was at the heart of the problems with Qantas and why their share price is collapsing. Qantas's announcement of their next operating profit is going to be out shortly. To me, it was as clear as daylight that their operating issues are to do with their management strategy of taking on Virgin and market share in Australia and on international routes where they are competing against airlines that have government ownership. It is disappointing that we are dealing with an ideology that governments should somehow be stepping back, in certain situations, from having ownership and influence on businesses that are critical for our country's national security in so many different ways.</para>
<para>The Greens will be voting against this bill. Senator Rhiannon has made it very clear that we are very keen to see Australian jobs stay in Australia and we are very keen to see a national airline. I just hope that in the next few months Qantas can change their strategy and operate more profitably so that they can get back to where they were, get their share price up and get the company back on a healthy footing, because that is where they were three years ago and that is where they were when I was a stockbroker in the finance industry. I did not see Qantas management coming to government, cap in hand, asking for help, asking for shareholder caps to be lifted and asking for assistance, because the company—Australian owned with Australian jobs—operated well.</para>
<para>At the end of the day, this was a cynical exercise by Qantas management to government to get the share price up, to take the pressure off Alan Joyce and to create shareholder wealth. I do not think that is a role that the government should be playing directly. We should be looking at the long-term sustainability and health of our national airline and its workers in this country.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:17</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator STERLE</name>
    <name.id>e68</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>This topic about Qantas certainly is emotive, but I think what we can take from this, for anyone listening out there, is that you would not find a senator in this chamber who is opposed to seeing a healthy and vibrant Qantas. But before I go to the Qantas Sale Amendment Bill 2014, I want to make a few personal comments. Out of the 76 senators in this building today, there are two who can lay claim to being very close to Qantas through our previous lives as organisers. I never ascended to the great office of National President and Branch Secretary as you did, Mr Acting Deputy President. You, more so than me, speak with authority because you were an aviation worker.</para>
<para class="italic">Senator Bilyk interjecting—</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator STERLE</name>
    <name.id>e68</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I am getting yelled at by Senator Bilyk. I am talking about senators who have had active involvement with Qantas and Qantas employees and about very warm, wonderful achievements that we, collectively through the TWU, achieved on behalf of our members at Qantas over the years. I think Senator Gallacher mentioned to me that it has been since 1952 or 1956. But I do have to take just a little bit of umbrage with Senator Rhiannon, because if you listened to Senator Rhiannon you would think that it was Senator Rhiannon who may have been standing on the freezing cold tarmacs at five o'clock in the morning, like you and I used to. You would think it might have been Senator Rhiannon who was that close to Qantas workers that she was called to the catering centre at midnight on a Sunday night, as I once was, because of an industrial accident.</para>
<para>I think they are very good of heart. But you and I, Mr Acting Deputy President, can speak with authority when it comes to representing transport—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Rhiannon</name>
    <name.id>CPR</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr Acting Deputy President, I rise on a point of order that goes to clarity. I was happy to acknowledge Senator Cameron, and I am certainly happy to acknowledge Senator Sterle for his contribution with the workforce of Qantas.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>HZE</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>There is no point of order.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator STERLE</name>
    <name.id>e68</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Let us go to the heart of the Qantas Sale Amendment Bill. On 27 February 2014, Qantas posted an underlying before tax loss of some $252 million and a statutory after tax loss of no less than $235 million for the six months ending on 31 December 2013. We should also note that Qantas CEO Alan Joyce announced the Qantas transformation program, which was designed to achieve $2 billion in cost reductions over three years—and I am trying not to vomit as I speak. This would mean the loss of 5,000 full-time positions over the next three years, with 1,500 from management and non-operational roles and the closure of the Avalon maintenance base.</para>
<para>This transformation also outlined that the wage freeze for executives—that would be bring a tear to your eye, wouldn't it?— implemented in 2013 would be extended to all Qantas Group employees. On top of this, Qantas confirmed that 50 aircraft would be deferred or sold, while Qantas Group's planned capital expenditure net operating lease liability would be reduced to $800 million in both the 2015 and 2016 financial years, with a total reduction of $1billion. We know from what we read in the papers that, around this same time, they were trawling the hallways of parliament here. They were seeking financial help, seeking debt guarantees and I do not know what else. It was up to the papers to report on all of that. I do not know if you had any involvement, Mr Acting Deputy President Gallacher, but I certainly did not have any direct involvement with any Qantas people. They avoid me like the plague, for obvious reasons—and if they are not obvious, I will certainly let people know later in my contribution. We do know that they had got themselves into a tremendous—and I do not use that word in the positive sense—pickle.</para>
<para>I am going to say very clearly here what I believe the reason for that was. I understand the cost of fuel from my trucking background and so I understand international pressures, but I also understand, can acknowledge and can see that bad business decisions lead to some shocking outcomes. I stand here as an individual—who happens to be a Labor senator and who happened to be chair of the inquiry into Qantas—and say that terrible business decisions were made by the Qantas senior management. This is why they are faced with such a debacle of massive losses. What do they want to do? They want to slash jobs.</para>
<para>We had an inquiry. The reference for it went through this chamber. The Senate was keen to put it through in order to give us the ability to inquire further and see what else we could find out. It was named the 'Qantas' future as a strong national carrier supporting jobs in Australia', under the Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport References Committee. We received 12 submissions. We held a public inquiry in Sydney, and I do concur with Senator Whish-Wilson that it was rushed, unfortunately. I want to go through the terms of reference so that those listening out there can understand the Senate's commitment to dig deep and to see how we could help. The terms of reference state:</para>
<quote><para class="block">1. The Committee must consider what initiatives can be taken by Government to ensure Qantas remains a strong national carrier supporting aviation jobs in Australia, including:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) a debt guarantee;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) an equity stake; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) other forms of support consistent with wider policy settings.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">2. That, in conducting the inquiry, the committee should consider:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) any national security, skills, marketing, tourism, emergency assistance or other benefits provided by a majority Australian-owned Qantas;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) the level and forms of government support received by other international airlines operating to and from Australia;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) the ownership structures of other international airlines operating to and from Australia;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(d) the potential impact on Australian jobs arising from the Government's plan to repeal Part 3 of the Qantas Sale Act 1992; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(e) any related matter.</para></quote>
<para>I want to let the Senate know who actually attended the inquiry. It did go for all day, and we could have gone all week on i We had Mr Ian Thomas, Managing Consultant, CAPA Consulting; Mr Shane O'Brien, Director of Aviation, Transport Workers Union; Mr Matthew Rocks, National Aviation Coordinator, Transport Workers Union; Mr Anthony Vincent Sheldon, National Secretary, Transport Workers Union; Ms Linda White, Assistant National Secretary, Australian Services Union; and Mr Stephen Purvinas, Federal Secretary of the Licensed Aircraft Engineers Association. Then we had the stars of the show at the end of the hearing, who we were very keen to talk to: Mr Gareth Evans, Chief Financial Officer, Qantas Airways; Mr Andrew Finch, General Counsel, Qantas Airways; Ms Jayne, Hrdlicka, CEO of Jetstar; and, Mr Alan Joyce of Qantas Airways.</para>
<para>What came out of the inquiry and what I certainly took out of it as chair was that Qantas could not tell us exactly where these 5,000 jobs would be peeled from. When I asked Mr Joyce could he guarantee that there would be no more job losses, he said no, he could not guarantee it. You do not have to be Einstein to work out that Qantas has no idea where this is going to end. So what do they do? They rush off for the sales act—they want to pull the sales act.</para>
<para>The sad part about this is that I am proud to stand here and stand up for Australian jobs. I do not really care who throws what at me. This is what brought me into this place, standing up for Australian jobs and for Australian workers. I want a vibrant, profitable, national carrier. It gives me no greater thrill when I am overseas to see the white kangaroo on the red tail and it gives me no greater thrill to know that nearly 30,000 Australians—I think at the last count it was down to 27,000—are employed by Qantas. I have no fear in saying that Qantas has been a very good corporate citizen. I also want to echo that I have had my challenges with Qantas, too, representing transport workers in Perth, not only catering workers but being part of enterprise bargaining negotiations and seeing good working conditions and wages flowing to Qantas workers.</para>
<para>When all is said and done, Mr Acting Deputy President Gallacher, you and I and Senator Sue Lines from Perth were joined at the inquiry by Senator Ian Macdonald, Senator Peter Whish-Wilson, Senator Sean Edwards, Senator Rhiannon, Senator Back and Senator Xenophon. It was opposition senators' very clear view that there are a number of things the government should do to protect Qantas, to give Qantas every opportunity to be successful and to continue to employ nearly 30,000 Australians.</para>
<para>We put out two recommendations. We strongly recommended from the committee that paragraph 7(1)(aa) and 7(1)(b) of the Qantas Sale Act 1992 be repealed, leaving the remainder of part 3 of the Qantas Sale Act 1992 intact. It has been talked about so I am not going to go into it. The opposition senators also strongly recommended that the Commonwealth government should provide a debt guarantee to Qantas. We know that fell on the deaf ears of the government, who not only want to kill our manufacturing industry through Holden and Toyota challenging to leave the country and, as Senator Ludlam said, leaving SPC Ardmona to sit out there and hang.</para>
<para>In the short time I have left, I want to share a few things with senators and those who may be listening. I know there have been personal attacks on Qantas management but I think there are some very important figures which need to be on the record. Chairman of Qantas, Leigh Clifford AO, was appointed chairman in November 2007. At the time, the Qantas share price was $5.71 and the Qantas market capital was valued at $11 billion. Mr Clifford is still the chairman of Qantas and, as you have heard, its current share price is $1.24 with a current market capital of $2.69 billion. That is about $8½ billion less than what it was when he took the reins.</para>
<para>I also want to share this for those who are listening: I happened to be, through you, Mr Acting Deputy President, at the Qantas AGM in Sydney, in October 2011, in the third row with Tony Sheldon, National Secretary of the TWU. I sat there and looked at the board, while they were blowing wind about how great they were and how they had rerun for election, got elected and gave themselves a pay rise. Don't worry about that; they gave themselves a pay rise. I was in the third row thinking, 'Fair enough, I'm not against pay rises; good on you, tremendous.' But no less than 24 hours later, through the CEO, Mr Alan Joyce, he held a gun to the country's head and announced that he would be grounding the airline—that is, 24 hours after these people had granted themselves massive pay rises. Why? Because the TWU members employed around Australia had, I think, two four-hour stoppages and the pilots were wearing red ties.</para>
<para>It absolutely grieves me when you have a company, crawling around the hallways here in the ministerial wing, wanting taxpayers to bail out shocking business decisions, while rewarding themselves with pay rises. But, when it all turns to custard, aren't they wonderful because they will not take their pay rises?</para>
<para>I also want to share this. It is really important that people out there understand the sort of money we are talking about. I am going to go to Mr Leigh Clifford AO. While he is out there sending Alan Joyce down here to try to get taxpayers dollars to resurrect a company that is suffering badly through bad business decisions, it should be noted that he is on no less than—all up—$635,000. That is not bad for a few meetings that you chair a year. There are other names here. I will not have time to go through them. There are non-executive directors on $249,000, $271,000, $310,000 and $309,000. And the list goes on. They have conned this mob over here. Because they have to have these high wages while the company is spiralling down, what do we do? We go out and blame the unions. Let's go out and blame the mums and dads. I do not see them as union members; I see them as people. I see them as members of the community who proudly wear that Qantas shirt, that Qantas scarf or that Qantas dress.</para>
<para>I had years of organising at not only Qantas Flight Catering in Perth but Qantas Freight and Qantas ramp services—your old stomping ground, Mr Acting Deputy President Gallacher—baggage handlers, aircraft cleaners. Not only that, I used to represent the Qantas lounge workers in Perth. And that mob over there do not mind quaffing before they jump on an aeroplane, but they do not stand up for them when they are all outsourced. They do not give a damn, as long as they are all right.</para>
<para>I know time is really tight and I could go on for hour after hour on this matter. I am so proud to say that that side over there rolled over on part 3 and realised what we had been saying since 2009. Give Qantas the opportunity—that is fair enough—if you want to increase foreign ownership of an individual or a foreign airline. But, as sure as God made little green apples, this side of the parliament will never, ever sacrifice Australian jobs so that that mob over there can duck and hide. It is about time people out there understood. They do not give a fat rat's backside about Australian jobs. They will listen to the senior management and to the $635,000-a-year CEO—don't worry about that—while they grovel around finding every excuse to challenge Australian manufacturing and Australian companies, to send jobs overseas. On that, I will leave it at that. The opposition will not be supporting their bill.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:34</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LAZARUS</name>
    <name.id>108616</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I would like to inform the chamber that this is not my first speech. I rise today as</para>
<para>Qantas is an Australian icon. It is as Australian as kangaroos, damper, gum trees, emus, koalas, meat pies and the Great Barrier Reef. Its name is created from an Australian state and territory. As many Australians would know, the name Qantas was originally formed as an acronym for Queensland and Northern Territory Aerial Services. Nicknamed 'the flying kangaroo', Qantas is Australia's largest airline and the second-oldest airline in the world. Founded in November 1920, Qantas began flying international services in May 1935. Since then, it has grown in size, reputation and national significance.</para>
<para>Qantas is symbolic of Australia, an important part of our history ingrained in our social fabric and considered one of Australia's most enduring and much-loved brands, but the Abbott government wants to destroy Qantas. The Abbott government thinks that it has the right to sell off our national icon. Well, Tony Abbott, the Palmer United Party says no, and the people of Australia say no. Qantas is not for sale. The Abbott government's Qantas Sale Amendment Bill is an attempt to allow Qantas to be sold off to overseas investors, because the Abbott government thinks that overseas investors might be able to run it more efficiently if jobs and maintenance and compliance activities are outsourced to cheap overseas labour.</para>
<para>Over recent years, we have watched the slow and painful demise of Qantas. We have expressed dismay and utter exasperation at the decline in value of the flying kangaroo at the hands of its senior management. In July 2008, the market capitalisation of Qantas was nearly $6 billion. Today, the market capitalisation of Qantas is around $2.8 billion. As far as the Palmer United Party is concerned, the maths on this is very easy: these figures show that there is a reduction of over $3 billion in the market capitalisation of Qantas. What is the board of Qantas doing? What type of questions is the board of Qantas asking of its CEO? In most business environments if a company loses 10 per cent of its value, heads will roll. In the case of Qantas some 50 per cent of its value has been lost from 2008 to 2014, yet the CEO has kept his job.</para>
<para>Over recent years, we have witnessed with horror the loss of thousands of Australian jobs at Qantas at the hands of its senior management team through perceived mismanagement and self-interest. Good companies prosper under strong intelligent leadership. They grow through sound strategy and decisive decision making. Good companies endure when the people in the organisation who are leading the business genuinely care, put the future of the business ahead of their own interests, value their staff and understand the needs of their market.</para>
<para>Qantas operates in a dynamic, complex and fast-changing industry. Certainly there are challenges; however, Qantas has prospered in the past as an Australian-owned national carrier, and there is no reason why it cannot prosper today as a predominantly-Australian-owned national carrier. It just needs strong leadership that genuinely cares about the interests of Qantas, its future and the people of Australia.</para>
<para>Why is their senior management team not being held accountable for the problems Qantas is experiencing? Why is the board of Qantas allowing the demise of Qantas? Why is the Abbott government supporting Qantas management in the destruction of our national carrier? What sort of image would we be portraying to the rest of the world if we allow the sale of our national carrier, our iconic brand, to international stakeholders beyond current legislated levels? The rest of the world would think we are crazy and that we cannot even maintain ownership of our own national carrier. Qantas does not just fly us around the country and, indeed, across the world; it also acts as a mascot for our country in the sky. It provides valuable services and support to our community and in times of crisis delivers support recovery operations.</para>
<para>Qantas is a national asset, an asset that forms part of our country's identity. While the Palmer United Party—along with many, many Australians—are concerned about the impact that the Qantas Sale Amendment Bill would have on Australian jobs and associated industries, airline safety and our national reputation generally, many people do not realise that our national carrier also provides critical support beyond its standard carrier services.</para>
<para>During periods of national emergency, it is critical that Australia has the ability to call upon a national carrier that is reliable, dependable and steadfastly aligned with our country's national interests. Australia relies on Qantas in times of need to support recovery operations following natural and other disasters. Qantas has a long and exemplary history of service during periods of national emergency. During the Second World War, when Singapore fell to the Japanese, Qantas crew members operated unarmed aircraft on dangerous missions as the Japanese forces advanced southwards through the islands. Qantas crew members later served in the battle zones of New Guinea. Combined Qantas and RAAF personnel flew Empire flying boats and Lockheed Lodestars along the Kokoda Trail to drop much-needed supplies to Australian troops. In 1942, Qantas, the British air ministry and BOAC, formerly Imperial Airways, launched an operation to re-establish the Australia-England air link that had been cut off by advancing Japanese forces. By the time the operation ended in July 1945, 271 crossings of the Indian Ocean had been completed, covering more than 1.5 million kilometres and carrying 648 passengers.</para>
<para>During the Vietnam War, Qantas carried out between 203 and 250 charter flights between Australia and Vietnam. Approximately half of all Australian troops who served in Vietnam were transported by Qantas aircraft. The Australian National Airlines Act 1945 gave the Australian government the power to co-opt Australian airlines into the military effort and as a result the RAAF planning was based on the availability of Qantas aircraft.</para>
<para>As a direct result of this and the involvement of Qantas in national military planned activities, Qantas established a world record of carrying the most passengers when it evacuated 673 people on a 747 flight from Darwin after the city was devastated by Cyclone Tracy. A total of 4,925 people were flown out by Qantas during this time. During the days following the Tiananmen Square protests of June 1989, Qantas airlifted hundreds of Australians who were stranded in Beijing. After the Bali bombings in October 2012, Qantas evacuated wounded Australians to Darwin and to burns units around the country, transported more than 4,500 people from Bali to Australia and deployed its own and other medical personnel to Denpasar to provide medical support and other assistance.</para>
<para>Qantas transported firefighters during the bushfires in Sydney and Canberra over the 2003 summer. In 2006, Qantas supported the evacuation of Australians caught up in Lebanon's war zones. Qantas also provided assistance during the 2009 Victorian bushfire emergency, it evacuated Australians from Egypt during the political unrest in 2011 and it transported Australians stranded by the Fiji cyclone in April 2012. Qantas plays a crucial role in ensuring the safety, security and safe passage of Australians throughout Australia and across the world. Qantas is a national strategic asset with the capacity to provide aircraft, personnel and expertise to Australia in crisis.</para>
<para>It is not in the interests of Australia's national security for Qantas to be sold off to overseas buyers, it is not in the interest of Australia's economy for Qantas to be sold off to overseas buyers and it is not in Australia's national employment interests for Qantas to be sold off to overseas buyers. Qantas belongs to the people of Australia. Qantas is supposed to be the spirit of Australia and not the spirit of China, the spirit of Pakistan or the spirit of Qatar. It is our beloved flying kangaroo and not the flying frilly gecko. The Abbott government should be disgusted with itself that it is even considering further selling off our national treasure to overseas investors. The Palmer United Party and the people of Australia are distressed and concerned that the Abbott government is trying to sell off Qantas.</para>
<para>Qantas is a global brand. Anyone who wants to travel to Australia knows that they can fly to Australia on one of the safest airlines in the world. Millions of people across the globe see Qantas as Australian, because Qantas is currently predominantly Australian owned. Qantas employs thousands of Australians. Australian families across the country are part of the Qantas family. Generations of Australian families have worked with the airline over the years.</para>
<para>As Australia's national carrier, Qantas also supports, sponsors and carries iconic Australian institutions, activities, initiatives and teams, including the Wallabies, Australia's national rugby union team, the Socceroos, Australia's national football team, the Australian cricket team, Formula 1 Australian Grand Prix, the Australian of the Year Awards, National Australia Day Council, the Royal Institute for Deaf and Blind Children, the Art Gallery of New South Wales, the Australian Girls Choir, the National Boys Choir of Australia, the National Gallery of Australia, Opera Australia, and the Australian Ballet Company, to mention just a few, and there are many more.</para>
<para>In addition, Qantas and the staff of Qantas donate to the community through grants, workplace giving and many other initiatives. Qantas plays such an important role in our community. If we sell off Qantas to overseas investors, all of these valuable contributions Qantas makes to our community may be jeopardised.</para>
<para>Qantas is part of our country. It is part of our personality as a nation, and it is a part of our country's strategic national interests. So, why does the Abbott government want to sell off Qantas? It is because the airline is struggling financially. It is concerning that Tony Abbott and Qantas management think that overseas investors will help solve the problem. Qantas management and the board cannot blame the economy. It is the view of many that the problems at Qantas have more to do with inept management rather than competition, cost structures and unionisation.</para>
<para>Qantas has money in the bank. It owns a highly valuable frequent flyer program and it boasts strong customer loyalty. Qantas needs good management. It needs leaders within the business who are committed to the airline—not to their own pockets—and to the genuine long term interests of the airline, its employees, its customers and Australia, and also the strategic interests of our great nation.</para>
<para>If Qantas is sold off to overseas investors, will Australian people lose their jobs? If Qantas is sold off, will the safety of the airline be comprised? If Qantas is sold off maintenance work will be shifted to other countries where labour is much cheaper, to countries where Australia has less control over the quality, frequency and reliability of the work undertaken. This may seriously affect the safety of the airline and the personal safety of passengers.</para>
<para>Today we are mourning the loss Malaysia Airlines flight MH17, taking with it the lives of many Australians. Our thoughts, prayers and deepest sympathies go out to those affected. We have also recently witnessed the disappearance of Malaysia Airlines flight MH370, which is still missing, and recovery operations are still underway.</para>
<para>We are at a crucial time in aviation history, where we must be placing greater focus and emphasis on the safety and security of flying. If Qantas is sold off, will Australia lose control of the safety and security of the airline? Will Australia maintain control over the flight paths of the aircraft? Will Australians still actually pilot Qantas aircraft, or will pilots from overseas countries pilot Qantas aircraft? Will Australians still work on Qantas aircraft as airline crew, or will airline crews from other countries work on Qantas aircraft? If Qantas is sold off, will Australia's national interests be compromised? The Palmer United Party and Australia are not prepared to find out.</para>
<para>Qantas should not be further sold off to overseas investors. In fact, the Palmer United party is of the view that the Australian government should have a greater and more involved role in the ownership, control and management of the airline, which is critical to our country's security, safety and national interests.</para>
<para>I am deeply concerned to hear that the Australian Labor Party may have struck a deal with the Abbott government to endorse the Qantas Sale Amendment Bill. If this is true, the Australian Labor Party is selling out the people of Australia. The Australian Labor Party is deceiving and undermining Australians, Australian jobs and the future of Australia.</para>
<para>The Palmer United Party does not under any circumstances support the further sell-off of Qantas to overseas investors. The Palmer United Party is standing up for the people of Australia, the employees of Qantas, the travelling public and the Australian industries and businesses which work with, provide services to and rely on the airline. The Palmer United Party strongly opposes the Qantas sale bill. Qantas must stay in the hands of Australia. If the Abbott government allows the sell-off of Qantas to overseas investors, Australia will never recover. If it is true that the Labor Party has done a deal with the Abbott government to sell off Qantas to overseas investors, Australia will never recover. The people of Australia will never forgive you, and history will be your judge and jury.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:50</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BILYK</name>
    <name.id>HZB</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to incorporate Senator Xenophon's speech on the second reading of the Qantas Sale Amendment Bill 2014.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:50</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator XENOPHON</name>
    <name.id>8IV</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para> () (): <inline font-style="italic">The </inline><inline font-style="italic">incorporated </inline><inline font-style="italic">speech read as follows—</inline></para>
<quote><para class="block">At the outset I wish to express my deepest sympathies and condolences for all the families and friends who lost their loved ones in the unfolding tragedy of MH17, including a number of Australians on that flight.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I oppose this bill in the strongest possible terms.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">One of the reasons I do so can best be summed up by the iconic and controversial Labor figure Jack Lang, who once said: "if you nurse a mug for long enough, he's bound to die in your arms".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This bill will simply prolong nursing of the incompetent and disastrous Qantas management team lead by CEO Alan Joyce and Chairman Leigh Clifford.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Further, this bill, through the changes it seeks to the Air Navigation Act to purportedly 'level the playing field' with Virgin Australia will pave the way for effective foreign control of Qantas.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The proposed changes to the Air Navigation Act could well facilitate up to 100% foreign control of Qantas' domestic operations, and just like Virgin, allow for a foreign carrier to have effective control of Qantas' international operations, with a sham arrangement that on the surface seems to be 51% Australian owned, but is anything but.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We need to put this bill, this debate, to be put in perspective. The Qantas Sale Act came into being in 1992 as a result of the Keating Government privatising Qantas. The Act contains a safeguard to protect what is our de facto national flag carrier – although there is nothing de facto about the way Qantas is seen around the world representing Australia, and its importance in marketing our nation as a tourist destination.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Taxpayer funds of up to a billion dollars were tipped into Qantas to sweeten the privatisation offer. The Qantas Sale Act, even with its existing flaws, acknowledges the strategic importance of Qantas calling Australia home, both in terms of our international reputation, tourism, jobs and strategic national interest considerations.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This bill seeks to trash that once and for all.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">And sadly, some of the Opposition's amendments will weaken the safeguards in the Qantas Sale Act, although the ALP's opposition to the Air Navigation Act changes is of course welcome. I urge my colleagues to support the amendments I have co-sponsored with Senators Madigan and Rhiannon to strengthen the existing safeguards in the Qantas Sale Act which I understand my colleagues will speak to shortly.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This bill has come about because of the frantic and desperate lobbying of Mr Joyce, his Chairman and the Board. If you look at the history of Mr Joyce's comments how can you believe anything this man says.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">On 17 February 2011 Mr Joyce stated:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">"Qantas achieved an Underlying EBIT of $165 million for the half-year. The result is 175 per cent above the prior corresponding period, driven by a $411 million, or 8 per cent, increase in total revenue. Qantas improved yield by 9 per cent and increased capacity by 3.3 per cent demonstrating a strong revenue recovery across both international and domestic business. "</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">However just four months later on 22 June 2011 Mr Joyce stated:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">"In FY11, Qantas International is forecast to generate a loss before interest and tax of approximately $200 million, on invested capital of over $5 billion, with a weaker result expected next year. Qantas International is the Group's weakest business – it has achieved required returns only three times in the past 15 years. Clearly the situation is not sustainable. However, we are developing a long-term strategy aimed at restoring competitiveness and profitability".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Between February and June 2011 no additional market supplementary statements were made by Qantas, yet during this time its share price dropped by 27%.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">On the 7th of September 2012 Qantas made an application to the ACCC for an authorisation for its alliance with Emirates, with Qantas asserting that approval of its application was necessary because of the 'terminal decline' of the Qantas International segment, stating in its submission to the ACCC:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">"For many years, Qantas International has been in terminal decline and has been supported by the other profitable Qantas businesses (Qantas Domestic, Qantas Frequent Flyer (QFF) and Jetstar) but its losses have continued to grow, with a $450 million loss in fiscal year 2012."</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">And Qantas also stated:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">"…unless Qantas has the ability to recover its cost of capital over an appropriate period, it will not be possible to invest in new aircraft for Qantas International. If Qantas International can no longer sustain its network because of low returns, then this has the potential to undermine its ability to compete as a legitimate network airline."</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">However, telling, in its final determination in relation to Qantas' application for an alliance with Emirates the ACCC rejected Mr Joyce's "terminal decline" assertions. The ACCC stated:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">"The ACCC does not accept or rely on Qantas' claim that Qantas International is in 'terminal decline' and unable to compete effectively or operate profitably. The ACCC considers that the scope of Qantas' International operations in the likely future without the proposed conduct would not be materially different to the likely future with the proposed conduct."</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The alliance with Emirates was supposed to be Qantas' saviour, and well after a year into that alliance Qantas is going backwards.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It is going backwards because of a series of disastrous decisions made by Alan Joyce and the management. Due diligence demands a close look at the 129 companies that form the Qantas Group.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In the month before he was made CEO in 2008, Qantas shares were then more than double their price now.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Joyce's promotion over John Borghetti was based on his seemingly spectacular implementation of former boss Geoff Dixon's plans for Jetstar as a low -cost offshoot.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Has it become a noxious weed sapping life from the Qantas tree?</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The labyrinthine accounts of Jetstar Asia, Jetstar Pacific and Jetstar Airways need to be looked at by Joe Hockey before any decision is made to bail out Qantas.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Here's an example. In 2009, Qantas paid $60 million for</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Singapore -based Jetstar Asia's assets - on the books valued at a bit over $3 million - as well as $200 million in accumulated losses. Is Jetstar Asia only flying because</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Qantas still foots the bill, despite being a minority shareholder?</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Here's another. Jetstar Pacific is majority owned by a Vietnamese government entity and its audited accounts are not made public. The reported $24 million in losses from 2009 to 2011 may be understated.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I suggest that Jetstar Hong Kong is another failed enterprise with a number of A320 aircraft parked in France costing the Qantas Group millions each month. I predict that Qantas will bail out of Jetstar Hong Kong sooner rather than later.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Qantas and Jetstar employees have told me many times that they believe Qantas International looks much sicker than it is because of cost shifting from Jetstar, something perfectly legal under current Australian accounting rules.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Yet Mr Joyce and Mr Clifford continue to pedal a line that they themselves contradict within weeks.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">On 18 October 2013, during Qantas' Annual General Meeting Qantas' chairman, Mr Leigh Clifford, made the following series of comments:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">"For a second consecutive year, the Group ended the reporting period with positive net free cash flow. This will remain a focus in the current financial year."</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">"Total liquidity at 30 June was $3.4 billion, comprising $2.8 billion in cash and $630 million in undrawn debt facilities."</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">"Thanks to this disciplined financial management, the Group has been able to return value to shareholders through the ongoing share buy-back program."</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">"Strong earnings in the competitive domestic market."</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">"Qantas is becoming more efficient and productive, as we permanently remove costs from the business."</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">During the 2013 AGM Mr Joyce made a series of statements, including:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">"As Leigh said, this has been a year of progress and achievement for the Qantas Group – amid tough market conditions and persistently high fuel prices."</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">"With a global network, a modern fleet and the best ever Qantas service, I believe we are entering a new era for this great Australian brand."</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">"As Leigh said, we are in a stronger financial position thanks to the steps we have taken."</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">"We have lowered debt levels and extended the Group's debt maturity profile, while reducing capital expenditure to ensure we retain a healthy balance sheet with strong liquidity."</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Any investor hearing those comments from both the chairman and CEO of Qantas on the 18th of October 2013 could have assumed that Qantas was on the road to fiscal recovery. However, on 5 December 2013 – some seven weeks later - 1000 job losses were announced by Qantas. On 27 February 2014 a further round of job cuts was announced, bringing the total to 5000. My understanding is that the share price dropped some 25 percent from the 18th of October 2013 to the 5th of December that year – a similar decline to that observed between 17 February and 22 June 2011.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">These inconsistent and apparently contrasting statements are confusing to follow. A reasonable person relying on the statements at the 2013 AGM would not have anticipated an announcement of such magnitude on 5 December 2013, in the absence of any market update. In fact, on the 29th of November 2013 Qantas released its 'Preliminary Monthly Traffic and Capacity Statistics' for the month of October 2013. This announcement contained no updated financial guidance. For a reasonable person entirely reliant upon public information and timely disclosures from Qantas such announcements on 22 June 2011 and the 5th December 2013 would have been a surprise. I query whether sections 674 and 184 of the Corporations Act were complied with given the magnitude of the drop in the Qantas share price in those periods. It also raises the question which institutional investors were briefed selectively during these periods. Qantas, in answers to questions on notice to a recent Senate Economics Committee inquiry made reference to confidential briefings which they were not prepared to elaborate on as they were 'commercial in confidence'. It seems reasonable to ask whether some participants in the market, having been selectively briefed by Qantas, were responsible, in part, for the share price decline for both periods referred to.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Under the leadership of Joyce and Clifford Qantas has lurched from one failed strategy to the next. For about a year from mid-2011 Joyce was hell bent on setting up a premium Asian airline – referred to by some as Red Q, by critics as Far Q. First, it was to be based in Singapore, then Kuala Lumpur, before being abandoned. Joyce seems increasingly like a desperate gambler chasing his Jetstar Asia losses.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The underlying premise of this bill, that Qantas needs foreign ownership restrictions to be lifted is deeply flawed.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Interestingly, the total foreign ownership of the airline rests, as at last disclosure at 39.8% - March 2013 - I am informed that the level presently rests around 42%. This means in simple maths that there is 7% of the airline's listed capital available to any airline that should wish to purchase the stock. There does not seem to be a line out the front of Qantas' HQ in Coward Street, Sydney wanting to do so.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">There are two possible reasons for this: Firstly, the price isn't low enough. Secondly, the strategy is extremely poor.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">With reference to the second point it is worth noting that as other airlines have been profitable, Qantas under the stewardship of Leigh Clifford and Alan Joyce has descended further into the red.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The share price has declined dramatically from the 28 November 2008, when Joyce became CEO. Shareholders have lost out; the various ruses pulled to change the structure of the business from the grounding in 2011, to the ill-fated Emirates alliance have not provided any consistent return to profitability. What has been consistent is poor strategy in Asia, bad investments and divisive management.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Qantas Sale Act is not responsible for the predicament Qantas finds itself in - the management is.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">To go back to where it began with Jack Lang, if the Government cradles Qantas with Joyce and his Board by pushing through these changes, it could well be that Australian tax payers will end up being the mugs.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:50</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BILYK</name>
    <name.id>HZB</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>In the interests of those in the Senate and those people listening and those who might have sensitive ears, I will not torture them with singing the first part of my speech, but I am sure that all Australians know the tune for these words:</para>
<quote><para class="block">I've been to cities that never close down, from New York to Rio and old London town.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">But no matter how far or how wide I roam, I still call Australia home.</para></quote>
<para class="italic">Senator Di Natale interjecting—</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BILYK</name>
    <name.id>HZB</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>No, sorry, Senator Di Natale, I will not sing in public. Qantas may have used Peter Allen's classic song in their commercial, but whether they truly still call Australia home is going to depend a lot on how this bill is handled in the Senate. Labor supports keeping Qantas Australian. An Australian carrier is important for local jobs, for local skills, for Australia's security and for regional Australia. But, unfortunately, this government has found a new export market—Australian jobs.</para>
<para>It is typical of this government and their small-minded, small-govern approach—their Tea Party approach thinking—to take the attitude that the best solution to any economic problem is the free market. They think there is no role for government in the economy other than to get out of the way and let the market do its job. This is exactly the kind of attitude they had when they opposed Labor's economic stimulus plan in 2009, and we all know what the economists have had to say about that decision. If those opposite had had their way, Australia would have lost 250,000 jobs in that period. Now those on the other side are up to their old tricks again—sending Australian jobs overseas under the pretence of saving jobs, because they do not realise their warped free-market ideology is doing the exact opposite.</para>
<para>The issue of Qantas jobs is one of particular importance to my home state of Tasmania, as nearly 300 Qantas workers are employed at the Qantas contact centre in Hobart. It is also of particular interest to me because in a previous life, before being elected to parliament, I worked for the Australian Services Union, the union that represents the inside workforce at airlines, so the Qantas employees and the previous Ansett employees. We all know I was very involved in the Ansett campaign when that airline went under. We lost hundreds of jobs there and I am afraid that it now looks like we will lose more hundreds of jobs out of Australia.</para>
<para>The Australian Services Union has coverage of inside workers, particularly those in call centres and the clerical staff in the airports. Qantas recently campaigned to close down the call centres in Brisbane, Melbourne and Hobart. The ASU's Victorian and Tasmanian Authorities and Services Branch contacted me earlier this year to convey their concerns about the future of those jobs, particularly in Hobart, but obviously other state branches also had concerns for their branches and the jobs there. Qantas had decided to undertake a review of its telephone sales operations in Australia and originally would not rule out closing down any or all of the three contact centres based in Hobart, Brisbane and Melbourne. So I was very pleased, after a great and strong campaign by the Australian Services Union, to receive the news that at least the Hobart contact centre would remain ope</para>
<para>It was unfortunate that the workers in the Queensland Qantas call centres were to lose their jobs. I have voiced concern and sympathy for those workers in this place previously. But I would like to say, 'Good on the Australian Services Union Victorian and Tasmanian Authorities and Services Branch, especially Igor Grattan and Kath Ryman, the Qantas delegates and the workers overall for having that strong campaign and such a successful campaign.' I hope they can find the same sort of strength that they had then now to help maintain their jobs.</para>
<para>What is really at the root of the problem is the attitude of management and the high salaries that management have been able to pay themselves over the past few years while really trying to work on privatising Qantas. Senator Sterle spoke earlier about some of those costs. He mention $600,000 for chairing the committee. It's not bad work if you can get it! I am just surprised that you can get paid that much money when your campaign is to actually privatise the company. That is another argument. I believe it has been a campaign by Qantas management for a long time to try to get rid of Qantas, but I do think that this government has been particularly manipulated into helping them achieve that goal.</para>
<para>As I said, I do hope that all jobs can remain at Qantas. I do not necessarily think that that will be the case, but I hope that it can be. But if this bill passes the Senate in its current form then I believe that certainly the jobs of my constituents will be under threat and the jobs of all Qantas workers throughout Australia. They will have a very uncertain future. That is unacceptable. I believe this because the bill we are now debating removes important protections ensuring that Qantas remains an Australian airline which is substantially based in Australia.</para>
<para>We can see that what the Abbott government's bill will do is cede ownership and control of Qantas to foreign interests. It would send Qantas maintenance, catering and administration jobs overseas and it would send Qantas headquarters offshore. It would mean that the Qantas Australians have grown to know and love for 94 years may no longer be called 'Qantas' anymore. It is amazing, isn't it, the difference that an election can make to changing the attitude of the Liberal and National parties—and it is amazing how short their memories are when it comes to the positions they used to take compared with the positions they take now.</para>
<para>In December 2009 Labor released an aviation white paper which was the result of a process of consultation with the transport and tourism industries. At the end of that process our white paper recommended that Qantas should remain majority Australian ownership but that the 35 per cent and 25 per cent rules should be repealed. These are the rules which relate to the level of ownership of Qantas by foreign airlines and a single foreign person, respectively. The then shadow minister, now Deputy Prime Minister, Mr Truss, said at that time:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The Government’s decision to allow a single foreign investor to own 49 per cent of Qantas would deliver effective control to a foreign investor, including possibly a competitor airline. Loss of effective Australian control could leave Australia without an airline primarily committed to our interests. What safeguards will be put in place for the Australian flying public, particularly those in regional areas?</para></quote>
<para>Isn't it interesting how such a modest proposal to amend the Qantas Sale Act elicited such concern from the now Deputy Prime Minister about regional services but I have not heard a peep out of him about what the current bill will do to regional services. Then there was the shadow Treasurer, now the Treasurer, Mr Hockey, who said at the time:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Qantas has, over the years, tried to increase foreign investment in the airline. We have been very concerned for a number of reasons. First and foremost, Qantas is an Australian icon and Qantas undertakes significant tasks in the national interest and there have been numerous examples where Qantas—an Australian-owned airline and an airline that relies heavily on government regulation—has undertaken tasks in the national interest. Our experience has been that when companies have majority foreign ownership or majority foreign control—not necessarily the same thing—but when they have majority foreign control, then it actually has an impact on the social responsibilities of those companies here in Australia.</para></quote>
<para>I think that is a pretty succinct argument for retaining an Australian owned airline from the then shadow Treasurer and now Treasurer in response to what I believe, once again, was a modest proposal from Labor in government.</para>
<para>But where are these concerns from Mr Hockey today when his government is looking at the removal of the wholesale provision of the act? Coming from the position they had in 2009 to the bill that is now before the Senate today has been an absolutely astounding act of acrobatics. This is not just a backflip. We have seen a few backflips on that side. This is not just a backflip; it is a triple backwards somersault with a pike! If maintaining the Qantas Sale Act protections was the government's position five years ago then the obvious question for the coalition is: what has changed in the past five years? We have yet to hear any really coherent answer to that question. So blinded are the government by their ambition to pass this bill they seem to have lost sight of what Qantas actually wanted.</para>
<para>In the interests of time, because other senators want to speak, I have been asked to cut my speech short today. But I do want to just say that we need to retain Qantas as a national carrier. The workers need to be able to put their hands on their hearts and say, 'No matter how far or how wide I roam, I still call Australia home.'</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:01</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LAMBIE</name>
    <name.id>250026</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>This is not my first speech. I rise to make a short contribution on the Qantas Sale Amendment Bill 2014. Palmer United will oppose this government bill because it will enable the sale and greater foreign ownership of our national airline. This Abbot government bill, if passed, will endanger the jobs of 300,000 Australians and place in jeopardy the best national interest of Australia.</para>
<para>I am deeply disappointed that the Abbot government has brought this bill before the parliament. But, before I expand on that disappointment, I must address the position I suspect that the Labor Party will adopt on this legislation. The average Australian listening to Labor speeches from Senator Cameron and Senator Ludwig would think that the Labor Party were opposed to an increase in the level of foreign ownership of Qantas. This is not correct. Today the Labor party, with the support of the Palmer United Party, the Motoring Enthusiast Party and possibly other crossbench senators, could have stopped dead any increases in the current levels of foreign ownership of Qantas. Today Labor could have voted with PUP, the Motoring party and others to stop Qantas hopping on the slippery slope to more foreign ownership. However, the Labor Party of Ben Chifley have given an indication that they will vote for an amendment which will still allow an increase in the level of foreign ownership of Qantas.</para>
<para>I want the people of Australia to be very clear on this point: the legislation before this place—the Abbot government bill and the Labor Party amendments to the government's bill—will allow increases to the current level of foreign ownership. The only substantial difference between Labor and the Liberals is the answer to the question of: how much do you want to increase the foreign ownership of Qantas? The Abbot Liberals want to sell off Qantas 100 per cent. There is no doubt about that. The Shorten Labor opposition have presented an amendment which will allow foreign airlines to increase their ownership from 35 per cent to 49 per cent and foreign persons to increase their ownership from 25 per cent to 49 per cent The Palmer United Party will not support an increase in any foreign ownership, so we will vote against both the Labor amendments and the government bill.</para>
<para>The reason the government want to sell off Qantas and every other public asset not nailed down is that, when it comes to the management of the public finances, they have only one plan—sell off the farm, privatise everything, sack all the workers and trust the forces of big business and the market. The Liberals did it last time they were in power. In the Howard years, the Liberals and Nationals sold approximately $59 billion worth of public assets, and paid about $75 billion of Labor debt. The Howard era Liberals made out they were financial geniuses, when all they did was sell off the farm and choose not to spend more than we earned. The Burnie CWA could have done the same job, if they had chosen to sell off the farm. The only difference is: Burnie's CWA know that income-producing assets—the farm—can only be sold off once.</para>
<para>What do we do to pay our bills? The first thing is: we get our priorities right. We do not spend billions of dollars on a gold-plated paid parental leave scheme which we cannot afford and which favours the rich. We do not borrow $30 billion over the next five years so that we can give it away to overseas countries, some of which have armies 10 times the size of our own army. Why do we give $75 million to Pakistan, a country which has a military much larger than ours and is nuclear armed?</para>
<para>If we want to truly grow our economy, we must have a debate about a financial transactions tax so that big banks and financial institutions pay a fairer share of tax. Last time I raised this issue, I was criticised. I am surprised that anyone could criticise me for suggesting that we should have a public debate about the amount of tax Australia's big banks pay. Since 2004, they will have almost doubled their net profits, and, according to a KPMG report, in 2012-13 they made a combined net profit of $37 billion.</para>
<para>An Anglicare report found that, of the $16 billion worth of Abbott's proposed budget savings, $12 billion is from those on welfare, and $3 billion is from those on high incomes. And guess where the other billion comes from? Yep, you've got it—big business. It is clear that Australia's banks and financial institutions are not paying their fair share of tax and have been afforded political protection. This is why the Liberals are slowly trying to railroad Australians into accepting an increase in the GST. This will obviously create more disadvantage for the average worker, pensioners, the sick and our needy.</para>
<para>So what is wrong with proposing a financial transactions tax or Robin Hood tax? Debate. It is not a new tax. France has adopted this budget measure to ensure that their banks and financial institutions pay a fairer share, and 11 other European countries may follow suit. The financial transactions tax debate is worth having, and those who have attacked me are simply trying to keep Australians in the dark, and are part of a push for an increase in the GST, which we do not believe is the answer.</para>
<para>There was a time in our nation's history when every politician of substance was fiercely protective of our national airline, Qantas. The great statesmen of our fighting generation set the standard. The giants of Australian politics, Chifley, Menzies and Curtin, understood to the core of their being that we must have a strong Australian-owned and -controlled national airline to guarantee our economic prosperity and guard our national interest. Today we are governed by politicians who argue like two-year-olds and forget that, in the dark days of World War II, Australia was forced to rely on the kindness and benevolence of people in foreign nations to maintain our civil air links with the world. We also had to beg—beg—foreigners for military aircraft, equipment and skilled personnel, to defend our families against an all-conquering, brutal, bloodthirsty aggressor—an aggressor who raped, slaughtered and bombed tens of millions of innocents in their bloody advance across China, South-East Asia and northern Australia in the dark days of 1942; an aggressor who our current Prime Minister calls 'honourable'.</para>
<para>It comes as no surprise that a Prime Minister with such a poor grasp of what was honourable during World War II and what was not also has a poor grasp of what is in our best national interest. By presenting legislation which weakens Australian control over Qantas, he is, once again, trusting our nation's survival and prosperity to the kindness and benevolence of people in foreign nations. I have not forgotten, nor will I arrogantly dismiss, the blunt, brutal and bloody lessons of the past. The Palmer United Party fiercely opposes the change of foreign ownership laws governing Qantas.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>HZE</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Lambie, for future reference: you do need to refer to Mr Abbott either as Mr Abbott or the Prime Minister.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:10</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLACHER</name>
    <name.id>204953</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to make a contribution in this debate in opposing the Qantas Sale Amendment Bill 2014. As others have said in this chamber, there are probably 76 senators who support the continued viability of a strong Australian controlled, Australian owned airline that is employing many thousands of Australian workers. I have had a long history in the aviation industry. In 1976 I worked for Trans-Australian Airlines, which morphed into Australian Airlines, which morphed into Qantas. When I left the aviation industry in 1988 I then became an organiser in the aviation sector and, ultimately, a branch secretary and national president of the union that has represented aviation workers for decades, and has done an extraordinarily good job. During that time I was exposed to negotiations with many different managers and boards at Qantas at the highest level, and it would be fair to say that until very recent times there was a very collegiate, a very responsible and an extremely successful history of negotiations in securing well-paid Australian based employment and a very successful history, if I may say so, in delivering the travelling public of Australia to all points of the world and all parts of Australia.</para>
<para>What is very clear in this debate is that we are not just talking about private sector versus public sector ownership; we are talking about an infrastructure that is integral to the economy of Australia. If we look at the number of passengers carried by Qantas, my information is that on 13 May 2014 Qantas had carried 44,946,000 passengers and Virgin had carried 18,436,660 passengers. So whatever government is in office in Australia, they clearly must have an immense, ongoing, urgent interest in that infrastructure that allows our national economy to operate. With more than 60 million people travelling, the tourism industry is absolutely critical to all parts of Australia in ongoing jobs and economic prosperity. Businesses cannot do their business without people travelling freely in this country. And I suppose all of that is balanced by the enormous competitive pressure that airlines face. When you can get a cab from Melbourne airport sometimes for about the price of a ticket from Adelaide to Melbourne, you really do understand the competitive pressure that they are under.</para>
<para>But clearly this infrastructure—the airline sector, the aviation sector—is no less critical than our national highways. Increasingly, we do not see the ability to travel quickly by bus or train or car; people are choosing planes, and rightly so: it is efficient, it is economically sensible and delivers immense economic benefits to our national economy. There is no developed country in the world that does not have an efficient aviation sector.</para>
<para>If we were to go to the more recent history of all unions dealing with management, it has really been very chequered and unrepresentative of the previous history. We see a board that has attacked its workforce; it has thrown out 5,000 jobs. There are people in my street in Adelaide, and there are probably people in everybody's suburb, who used to work for this great airline, who enjoyed careers of 30 years earning decent wages and, more importantly I suppose from Qantas's perspective, who had the brand at heart, who did over and above what they were paid for to make sure that that place was successful. Unfortunately, with the advent of Mr Clifford and Mr Joyce, there has been a concerted attempt to move passengers from Qantas to Jetstar.</para>
<para>At a recent inquiry in this place, the evidence was clear: there are more passengers on Jetstar than on Qantas. The average age of the fleet in Jetstar is lower than it is at Qantas. There has been a clear shift to ensure profitability, and if it were successful you would have to say, 'Good on them.' But the reality is they have shifted work to Jetstar, they have shifted planes to Jetstar, they have not delivered profitability, there has been no dividend, the share price has reduced, management wages have gone up and employment has been turned into unemployment and redundancy. This is a disgraceful effort.</para>
<para>What is a complete mystery to me is why the shareholders have put up with it. Why have the shareholders put up with destruction of shareholder value, destruction of jobs and non-payment of a dividend? It has been an absolute point of debate with those of the other side, and I understand their free-market philosophy, but why is Qantas in this place all the time knocking on the door seeking government intervention? The reality is that they obviously seek to continue with their agenda of shifting planes from Australia into Asia. Once again, that is clear economic rationalism policy: let's go to Hong Kong and start up a business and make some money; let's go to Japan and start up a business and make some money. The reality is they have not made any money. And the fact that they have not made any money has exacerbated the situation they find themselves in—they need to come to government cap in hand asking for a number of things.</para>
<para>I am not really too concerned about that because, going back to my initial point, this is national infrastructure. This is what makes Australia's economy tick—a good viable airline industry. The problem with Qantas is we have the wrong people running it. We have a mathematician who can only subtract value, not add value. That is what he did his university course in: mathematics. Yet when we look at the mathematics of Qantas's performance, it is all negative. There has been no adding of value. As other people in this place—Senator Ludwig, Senator Sterle, Senator Bilyk and Senator Lazarus—have said, we are very proud of our airline and we want to get on and get home from wherever we are in the world on the safest airline in the world.</para>
<para>The reality is they have changed fundamentally that loyalty that used to exist. They have done deals which mean you cannot get a 'kangaroo' out of Adelaide to Singapore or from Perth to Singapore. They have done these arrangements and they have not even been able to come back to this chamber or to this parliament or to the Australian people and say, 'We did it for sound economic reasons and we're making money.' We all want to see Qantas be successful. I do not think that there is a senator in this place who does not want to see Qantas be successful. But at what cost? At the cost of more Australians jobs? They have not only delivered no dividend, a lower share price and turned employment into unemployment but they have actually brought into question Australia's iconic airline's impeccable safety record. They have brought that impeccable safety record into question through their cuts and through their new-age philosophy.</para>
<para>When Mr Joyce came to Australia I had a meeting with him. As we do in the aviation sector, all unions had a meeting with Mr Joyce. We were not terribly worried—he was just a new CEO; it is usually the changing of the guard. But it was a fundamental changing of the guard: it was to bring in fundamentally different thinking, with his whole philosophy and through his senior managers—and I met most of those people. The simple fact is that the only thing that has not happened in deregulation of aviation in Australia is reduction of wages and conditions. If you look at the American sector, you can see there are pilots flying for $20 an hour. You can see there are workers servicing aircraft for fundamentally lower wages and conditions than what we in Australia currently enjoy. The message to Mr Joyce and any government is that, fundamentally, unions will not walk away from their members and allow wages and conditions to be destroyed.</para>
<para>There are difficult challenges here for whatever government is an office. It is a scrambled egg. There are conditions applied to Qantas that people argue should not apply to Virgin, because people want a level playing field. My suggestion to Qantas is: if you want support in this place, demonstrate your fundamental commitment to Australia in terms of jobs and the national integrity of our economy by making sure that Qantas planes fly. The first thing that Alan Joyce did in that regard was to ground the airline. He disrupted the entire national economy of this country in his jihad against Australian wages and conditions.</para>
<para>We will never on this side of the chamber—and, I am certain, on the crossbenches—walk away from fundamentally good wages and conditions for Australian workers by a company that has not demonstrated prudent, clever fiscal strategies designed to maximise shareholder value, pay a dividend and create employment. This is not going to go away. We will always stay on the side of good and clever management, great jobs for Australia and safe travel for Australians.</para>
<para>I have a son, a daughter and three grandchildren who were in Europe this morning. Foolishly, I did not check their flight details. I can now confirm that they are nowhere near that awful tragedy. Australians love their airline and will always support their airline, but it needs to be backed up by a good and clever management team that is prepared to work with Australians to get the job done and keep this economy functioning properly.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:21</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator MADIGAN</name>
    <name.id>217571</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Before I address the bill, I wish to express my deepest sympathies and condolences for all the families and friends who have lost their loved ones in the tragedy of MH17, including the many Australians on the flight.</para>
<para>I am going to keep my remarks very brief. I suspect this bill, like so many others, has already fallen victim to backroom deals and negotiations. In fact, I do not know why the government and the opposition have put us through the agony this morning to outline their lack of vision for this once great national carrier.</para>
<para>The Qantas Sale Amendment Bill 2014 is the government's crass attempt to free Qantas from its supposed shackles. However, it would be more effective if Alan Joyce left the airline to a new leadership that would allow the business to truly fly. What makes Qantas great is the 99 per cent within the business. The skill and professionalism of Qantas pilots, flight attendants, maintenance, catering and ground staff are second to none.</para>
<para>Qantas has become a national carrier only by name with the executive more interested in their own bonuses rather than investing in the business by investing in Australia. Qantas was the pride of our nation and it can be again. To do so they must follow steps outlined in the amendments circulated by Senator Xenophon, Senator Rhiannon and me.</para>
<para>The reason I will not be supporting this bill is that I recognise that Qantas is not competing on a level playing field. Foreign governments support their airlines, their car industries, their manufacturers and their agricultural sectors—and ours does not. This is an irrefutable fact.</para>
<para>Before I conclude, I would just like to outline precisely the reasons for our amendments. The amendments will keep the current foreign ownership requirements contained in the Qantas Sale Act 1992. The amendments will strengthen the requirements in the Qantas Sale Act in respect of Qantas and its future subsidiaries' facilities being located in Australia, and prevent Qantas from creating any new subsidiaries in order to shift operations overseas.</para>
<para>I am under no illusion that the government and the opposition will not even contemplate for a minute supporting the sensible amendments put forward. However, I ask the crossbench to show their support for the best interest of Qantas's future and their workers by supporting these amendments.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:24</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator IAN MACDONALD</name>
    <name.id>YW4</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I support the bill proposed by the government. Why? Because I have an interest in Qantas and I fear for its long-term future. It is a great airline. It is very professionally run and operated. It provides a magnificent service for Australia and indeed internationally. I have a personal and private attachment to Qantas in that my mother worked for the Cloncurry agent of the first agency for the first Qantas, when it flew out of Longreach and Winton all those years ago. It is a significant and iconic symbol of Australia.</para>
<para>What I want to contribute to this debate was encouraged by the contributions by most of the Labor senators here. I was on the Senate inquiry that looked into the Qantas sale bill and it became very clear, as has become clear from the speeches today, that the Labor party are determined to penalise not the airline but its current managing director. They have a pathological hatred of Mr Joyce. Why? Because Mr Joyce was one of the few business people in Australia who had the intestinal fortitude a couple of years ago to stand up to the outrageous demands of the unions. Had Mr Joyce capitulated to the outrageous demands propagated by union bosses, Qantas would have gone the same way that Ansett did. I have been around long enough to remember Ansett rolling over every time to the demands of the unions. All pretty good for the unions, but what happened? The company went broke and all of those people who were employed in that company were without a job. How good is that for looking after your union members? They did not have a job. And that is the issue, because a couple of years ago Mr Joyce said, 'No, we're out of this. We will not capitulate because if we do capitulate we'll go the same way as Ansett,' so he stood up to the unions. Ever since that day the unions and the Australia Labor Party representing the unions in this chamber—and most of the people here are beholden to the union movement for their very presence here—will do everything not really to attack Qantas but to attack one man who had the courage to stand up to the union movement.</para>
<para>It was interesting to learn at that inquiry when we had a couple of union leaders who came to give evidence that one of them never used Qantas. He had all the rhetoric about supporting the Australian airline, but he always flew on another airline which was not Australian owned but owned by a foreign government and foreign airlines. The other union leader could not remember exactly how many times he had flown on Qantas, but clearly it was not many. In fact, we asked him to indicate which airlines he had used on some of his recent trips overseas and, surprisingly, he could not even remember that. So here is the union supposedly looking after its members who work for Qantas but the union leaders are not supporting them because they do not support Qantas, they support the opposition airline.</para>
<para>In Australia, we are very fortunate indeed in having two very professional, very safe airlines that are well run. Both employ many, many Australians and provide a wonderful service. Perhaps those of us in this parliament building—unfortunately, I might say—probably use the airlines more than any other group in Australia, not because we like flying but because it is the only way to get from where we live—in my case, eight hours flying time away—to Canberra for work. But we are good observers and we know that the two current Australian airlines are amongst the best in the world.</para>
<para>My presence in this debate is simply to say to the Labor Party senators: forget your hatred. Forget your determination to attack one particular person and look at the interests of Australia. Without two profitable operating airlines, we are going to end up, as we did for quite a while in times gone by, where there was only one such airline. You cannot run an airline on the smell of an oily rag. You have to make profits, and to do that you have to be able to manage the airline on the basis of an even playing field. Currently, the two airlines have different rules and regulations which give one airline a competitive advantage.</para>
<para>I ask the Labor Party to forget its prejudice, forgets its hatred against someone who stood up to the unions, and make a decision in this chamber in the interests of Australia and Australians. I urge all senators to support the government's bill.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:31</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator JOHNSTON</name>
    <name.id>00AON</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>To reiterate in closing the second reading debate: I remind senators that the purpose of this bill is to remove the regulatory handcuffs that apply to Qantas but to no other Australian based airline including in relation to accessing foreign capital. Currently there is one set of rules and another set of rules for other Australian based airlines. Part 3 of the Qantas Sale Act, which the government proposes to repeal, requires Qantas to include a range of outdated restrictions in its articles of association. Under part 3 of the act, foreign ownership is limited to 49 per cent, a single investor cannot own more than 25 per cent and foreign airlines are limited to aggregate ownership of 35 per cent. In contract, under the Air Navigation Act foreign persons can own up to 49 per cent of other Australian international airlines, with no restrictions on foreign ownership for Australian domestic airlines, subject to consideration by the Foreign Investment Review Board.</para>
<para>The bill makes amendments to definitions in the Air Navigation Act to ensure that Qantas is subject to the provisions regarding foreign ownership, thereby creating a consistent regulatory framework for all Australian international airlines. Australia's air services agreements with other countries require an airline seeking to exercise Australia's air traffic rights to be designated by government. This means they must satisfy a range of requirements including, firstly, substantial ownership and effective control by Australian nationals. Two-thirds of the board members must be Australian citizens, as must be the chairperson. Lastly, the airline's head office and operational base must also be in Australia. The government does not propose to change that set of criteria.</para>
<para>In summary, the legislation means that Qantas will no longer operate at a competitive disadvantage and that government regulation will no longer stand in the way of Qantas's efforts to return to profitability. These amendments to the sale act mean investors can acquire the same level of ownership. I will go into explaining the amendments that the government has accepted with the opposition. These changes will mean that investors can acquire the same level of ownership in Qantas as they can in other Australian international airlines. The government maintains that the best way to assist Qantas is to level the playing field and ensure the same regulatory framework will apply to all Australian international airlines. Whilst the amended bill is not the optimal solution, it is progress toward this goal.</para>
<para>I thank all senators for their contributions in this debate and commend the bill to the Senate.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>CDK</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the Qantas Sale Amendment Bill 2014 be now read a second time.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [11:38]<br />(The Acting Deputy President—Senator Peris)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>52</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Abetz, E</name>
                  <name>Back, CJ</name>
                  <name>Bernardi, C</name>
                  <name>Bilyk, CL</name>
                  <name>Birmingham, SJ</name>
                  <name>Brown, CL</name>
                  <name>Bullock, J.W.</name>
                  <name>Bushby, DC</name>
                  <name>Cameron, DN</name>
                  <name>Canavan, M.J.</name>
                  <name>Carr, KJ</name>
                  <name>Cash, MC</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                  <name>Collins, JMA</name>
                  <name>Dastyari, S</name>
                  <name>Day, R.J.</name>
                  <name>Edwards, S</name>
                  <name>Faulkner, J</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, DJ</name>
                  <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                  <name>Fifield, MP</name>
                  <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                  <name>Johnston, D</name>
                  <name>Ketter, CR</name>
                  <name>Leyonhjelm, DE</name>
                  <name>Lines, S</name>
                  <name>Ludwig, JW</name>
                  <name>Lundy, KA</name>
                  <name>Macdonald, ID</name>
                  <name>Marshall, GM</name>
                  <name>Mason, B</name>
                  <name>McEwen, A</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                  <name>McLucas, J</name>
                  <name>Moore, CM</name>
                  <name>Nash, F</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, DM</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, B</name>
                  <name>Payne, MA</name>
                  <name>Peris, N</name>
                  <name>Polley, H</name>
                  <name>Reynolds, L</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A (teller)</name>
                  <name>Ryan, SM</name>
                  <name>Seselja, Z</name>
                  <name>Singh, LM</name>
                  <name>Sinodinos, A</name>
                  <name>Smith, D</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G</name>
                  <name>Williams, JR</name>
                  <name>Wong, P</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>15</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Di Natale, R</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J</name>
                  <name>Lazarus, GP</name>
                  <name>Ludlam, S</name>
                  <name>Madigan, JJ</name>
                  <name>Milne, C</name>
                  <name>Muir, R</name>
                  <name>Rhiannon, L</name>
                  <name>Rice, J</name>
                  <name>Siewert, R (teller)</name>
                  <name>Wang, Z</name>
                  <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                  <name>Wright, PL</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names></names>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to<br />Bill read a second time.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division></subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>In Committee</title>
            <page.no>5462</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:42</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The opposition has three amendments in relation to this bill. I understand that we will be dealing with sheet 7476 initially. I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(2) Schedule 1, page 3 (lines 1 to 5), omit the Schedule, substitute:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Schedule 1—Amendments</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Qantas Sale Act 1992</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">1 Paragraphs 7(1)(aa) and (b)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   Repeal the paragraphs.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">2 Paragraph 7(1)(d)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   Omit ", (b)".</para></quote>
<para>This amendment is basically the 25 per cent, 35 per cent proposition. This amendment will remove the 35 per cent and 25 per cent sublimits on foreign ownership but will retain the requirements for at least 51 per cent ownership of Qantas by Australians and all other elements of part III that give Qantas its Australian character. This includes keeping provisions that give legislative effect to those requirements. These are: the majority of Qantas international operations, including maintenance, housing of aircraft, catering, flight operations, training and administration, be based in Australia—that is, Qantas jobs should predominantly be Australian jobs; the Qantas board to remain composed of at least two-thirds Australians, including the chair; the Qantas name must be used for international services; Qantas's head office to remain in Australia; and Qantas to remain incorporated in Australia. Labor will not allow these provisions to be taken out of the legislation, as the government had proposed. The position is consistent with the recommendation of Labor senators on the Senate Economics Legislation Committee when the bill was considered.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:44</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator JOHNSTON</name>
    <name.id>00AON</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The government will support the Australian Labor Party's amendment to this bill. The proposed amendment means that the bill removes the 25 and 35 per cent intermediate restrictions on foreign ownership of Qantas but leaves the other restrictions contained in part III unchanged. By removing those foreign investment restrictions, the bill allows foreign investors to acquire the same level of ownership in Qantas as they can in other Australian international airlines regulated by the Air Navigation Act 1920.</para>
<para>The government opposes the other amendments. I do not propose to say much more about those other amendments. I think the reasons that we are opposing the amendments as proposed by the Greens and the crossbenchers are obvious and contained in both the second reading speech and the summing up that I have delivered.</para>
<para>The government maintains that the best way to assist Qantas is to level the playing field. While the revised bill goes some way in evening the playing field, it still will not be level. Qantas will still operate under a unique statutory regulatory framework that does not apply to any other Australian airline. Having said that, I think the government's disposition with respect to these amendments is clear, and we will not be opposing Labor's amendments.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:45</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RHIANNON</name>
    <name.id>CPR</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Greens do not support Labor's amendments that, if passed, would clearly increase the level of foreign ownership. We support the retention of the limits, which limit the individual investor to 25 per cent ownership and foreign-owned airlines to 35 per cent. The Labor-coalition deal would allow the foreign level of ownership to rise to 49 per cent. We need to look at what Labor is saying. I acknowledge what the opposition spokesperson, Mr Albanese, said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">This reform will ensure that Qantas will remain majority Australian owned</para></quote>
<para>Many Labor senators have reiterated that message today along with their defence of jobs. We need to look at what 'to remain a majority Australian owned' means and if that is possible. When my colleague Senator Peter Whish-Wilson spoke, he provided some very useful information about how this will play out, and I look forward to his contribution on how we can be confident that majority ownership would stay with Australia.</para>
<para>In this part of the committee, we need to unpack what Labor is saying, because there is a concern with how this amendment will play out. We heard from Mr Albanese and Labor senators about what they want, but Mr Albanese is delivering and Labor is about to vote for is what Qantas management have said they are pleased with. In <inline font-style="italic">The</inline><inline font-style="italic">Sydney Morning Herald</inline>on 15 July, an unnamed Qantas spokesperson said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">While removing all restrictions that apply only to Qantas remains our preference for levelling the playing field, changing the 25 and 35 per cent limits would represent an improvement on the status quo.</para></quote>
<para>It is very important for Labor senators to recognise that it is not an improvement on the status quo. The status quo has higher levels of protection against foreign ownership, and if you vote with the coalition, this deal will weaken the protection that is currently in part III. I would argue that that is a real concern and that we need stronger limits on foreign ownership, not this watering down.</para>
<para>I am not questioning the sincerity of Labor senators who have spoken in this debate. They have clearly set out their position. My guess is that some would not completely understand that weakening the limits on foreign ownership is about to occur. If Labor and the coalition vote together, they are voting for what Qantas management wants. They are opening the door to increased foreign ownership and strengthening the hand of the very Qantas management that we have heard a number of Labor senators be so critical of. This is the very management who drive down working conditions and wages and who are working to casualise the workforce. That is what will happen if Labor vote with the coalition and this deal goes through.</para>
<para>It looks like Labor have chosen to work with the coalition and it is very unfortunate that they did not choose to work with the Greens, Senator Nick Xenophon and Senator John Madigan, who have set out their concerns about issues to do with foreign ownership, and the Palmer United Party. We could have improved the current situation under which Qantas operates rather than weakening it, which could occur if this amendment goes through.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:49</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WHISH-WILSON</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I just want to ask the minister a question. The government has obviously reviewed these amendments by Labor. Could the minister explain how the potential increase of a single investor will get to 49 per cent? Given the overall aggregate level is going to be 49 per cent and total foreign ownership is going to be 49 per cent, could he explain where total foreign ownership of Qantas is right now, where it has been historically and how exactly this will work on the share market?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:50</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator JOHNSTON</name>
    <name.id>00AON</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I do not have that information. It is not material to the legislation before the chamber. The ordinary course of events of the functioning of the company's equity ownership will be in the marketplace. As you know, Qantas is a listed entity. As to the issuing of further shares or the provision of further equity or the making of contractual arrangements with investors, that is a matter for Qantas, as it would be for any other business that is a listed entity in the marketplace pursuant to the Corporations Law. Those matters do not bear upon the fact that there is a constraint that we are seeking to remove such that, in the ordinary course of business, Qantas can provide increased foreign equity to 49 per cent as set out in this legislation.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:51</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WHISH-WILSON</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>We are passing a law here that is changing the ownership level of Qantas and allowing a single foreign investor—potentially and presumably, but not always, another airline—and I do not understand how it is going to work and whether you have met with Qantas and talked to them about exactly how it is going to work. If you already have an ownership level over 40 per cent or around 40 per cent like it is now—and sometimes it gets to the limit of 49 per cent—and an airline wants to buy a 49 per cent stake in Qantas, how does that work? How can they make an on-market or an off-market offer without pushing the total ownership over 49 per cent? You should be able to explain this, because it is obviously fundamental to the legislation that you have thought through how this would work.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:52</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator JOHNSTON</name>
    <name.id>00AON</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>It works very simply, Senator. Qantas and any equity purchaser must comply with the law.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:52</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WHISH-WILSON</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I have been asked not to take up too much time. But the Corporations Law has nothing to do with this. This is a separate issue for Qantas. The shareholder cap has been in place for a long time. I am thinking about the process that would occur. Presumably you have done this for the benefit of Qantas. We are supporting these amendments to allow a larger single shareholding—presumably another airline—but I do not know how it is going to work. I know there are hundreds and thousands of other foreign investors—pension funds, mutual funds—all holding shareholdings in Qantas. They classify as foreign shareholders. How does a new shareholder come into the market and take a stake without pushing the total cap over 49 per cent? It is a bit counterintuitive.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:53</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator JOHNSTON</name>
    <name.id>00AON</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>We do not think it is.</para>
<para>The CHAIRMAN: The question is that opposition amendment (2) on sheet 7476 be agreed to.</para>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The committee divided. [11:58]<br />(The Chairman—Senator Marshall)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>48</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Abetz, E</name>
                  <name>Back, CJ</name>
                  <name>Bernardi, C</name>
                  <name>Bilyk, CL</name>
                  <name>Birmingham, SJ</name>
                  <name>Brown, CL</name>
                  <name>Bullock, J.W.</name>
                  <name>Bushby, DC</name>
                  <name>Cameron, DN</name>
                  <name>Canavan, M.J.</name>
                  <name>Cash, MC</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                  <name>Dastyari, S</name>
                  <name>Day, R.J.</name>
                  <name>Edwards, S</name>
                  <name>Faulkner, J</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, DJ</name>
                  <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                  <name>Fifield, MP</name>
                  <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                  <name>Johnston, D</name>
                  <name>Ketter, CR</name>
                  <name>Leyonhjelm, DE</name>
                  <name>Lines, S</name>
                  <name>Ludwig, JW</name>
                  <name>Lundy, KA</name>
                  <name>Macdonald, ID</name>
                  <name>Marshall, GM</name>
                  <name>McEwen, A</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                  <name>McLucas, J</name>
                  <name>Moore, CM</name>
                  <name>Nash, F</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, DM</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, B (teller)</name>
                  <name>Payne, MA</name>
                  <name>Peris, N</name>
                  <name>Polley, H</name>
                  <name>Reynolds, L</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A</name>
                  <name>Ryan, SM</name>
                  <name>Seselja, Z</name>
                  <name>Singh, LM</name>
                  <name>Sinodinos, A</name>
                  <name>Smith, D</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G</name>
                  <name>Williams, JR</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>15</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Di Natale, R</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J</name>
                  <name>Lazarus, GP</name>
                  <name>Ludlam, S</name>
                  <name>Madigan, JJ</name>
                  <name>Milne, C</name>
                  <name>Muir, R</name>
                  <name>Rhiannon, L</name>
                  <name>Rice, J</name>
                  <name>Siewert, R (teller)</name>
                  <name>Wang, Z</name>
                  <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                  <name>Wright, PL</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names></names>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:02</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The CHAIRMAN</name>
    <name.id>00AOP</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The next two items on the running sheet—one by Senators Madigan, Rhiannon and Xenophon and the other one by the opposition—effectively deal in part with the same item that we have just voted on. They also deal with schedule 2. I intend to separate the questions. The first question I will put before the committee—and people can talk about this, but I am letting the chamber know how I intend to proceed—is that schedule 1, as amended, be agreed to. Then I will separately put that schedule 2 stand as printed. That is how I intend to proceed.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:03</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RHIANNON</name>
    <name.id>CPR</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I, and also on behalf of Senator Nick Xenophon and Senator John Madigan, oppose schedules 1 and 2 in the following terms:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(3) Schedule 1, page 3 (lines 1 to 5), to be opposed.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(4) Schedule 2, page 4 (lines 1 to 16), to be opposed.</para></quote>
<para>I have been working with Senator Madigan on this aspect of the committee proceedings. We do have concerns with these schedules. We are endeavouring to keep the current foreign ownership requirements contained in the Qantas Sale Act. We need to strengthen the requirements in the Qantas Sale Act in respect of Qantas facilities being located in Australia. I think that is where we, hopefully, have agreement. We have also specified that it is important that any future subsidiaries of Qantas are covered. That is also a point we have included.</para>
<para>We are also preventing Qantas from creating any new subsidiaries in order to shift operations overseas. Under the current Qantas Sale Act the majority of Qantas's facilities are taken in aggregate and must be located in Australia. We are referring there obviously to maintenance, administration and catering. It is very important that the majority are located in Australia but, because they are grouped together, the Qantas Sale Act gives Qantas the potential to move individual facilities offshore as long as the majority of all facilities remain in Australia. You can see that this is a very unfortunate loophole that can be exploited. For example, Qantas could send 1,999 jobs from engineering overseas while keeping 2,000 administration jobs in Australia and satisfy the act. I do not believe that is what people believe is the intention of the act. That is why we believe this needs to be tightened.</para>
<para>The proposal by Senator Madigan, Senator Xenophon and me would mean the majority of each of the individual facilities operated must be located here. We have spelt out what they are—catering, flight operations, training, administration, maintenance and housing of the aircraft. We have heard many speeches here today detailing the importance of jobs being retained in Australia. Surely this greater clarification that our joint amendment would bring to this strengthens the important point that many senators have made.</para>
<para>I also want to emphasise a point about any subsidiaries created. The amendment applies to any subsidiary created by Qantas after 17 July 2014, so not current subsidiaries but those post, if this happens to be passed. We believe such a provision is necessary as any delay in it coming into effect will give Qantas the opportunity to create shell companies in order to avoid being caught by the provisions of the amendment. If you look at operations to date, that is something we need to be mindful of. As the amendment applies to only future Qantas decisions about where to locate facilities, it does not require Qantas or any of its current subsidiaries to shift facilities already located outside of Australia.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:08</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The opposition supports this proposal.</para>
<para>The CHAIRMAN: The question is that schedule 1, as amended, be agreed to.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>The CHAIRMAN: The question now is that schedule 2 stand as printed.</para>
<para>Question negatived.</para>
<para>The CHAIRMAN: We move to amendments (2) and (5) on sheet 7533 revised.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:09</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RHIANNON</name>
    <name.id>CPR</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thought it was (4) and (2).</para>
<para>The CHAIRMAN: I think the revised sheet changes the numbering.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RHIANNON</name>
    <name.id>CPR</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I do not need to add further comments. The comments that I made when I originally spoke about the need for clarity about where these facilities are located and getting down to the division still apply. Considering the lateness of the hour, I am happy to curtail my comments.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:11</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Can I just indicate, we have not seen these amendments. We need to at least have a couple of minutes just to get our position clarified on it.</para>
<para>The CHAIRMAN: I think that is fair. There was a revised sheet that came round not long ago, so I am happy to facilitate that for the moment. There is another question I have to deal with administratively, which goes back to the opposition—amendment (1) on sheet 7476.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I move amendment (1) on sheet 7476:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Clause 2, page 2 (table item 2, column headed "Provision(s)"), omit "Schedules 1 and 2", substitute "Schedule 1".</para></quote>
<para>The CHAIRMAN: The question is that amendment (1) on sheet 7476 be agreed to.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:12</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RHIANNON</name>
    <name.id>CPR</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I move amendments (2) and (5) on sheet 7533 revised:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(2) Clause 2, page 2 (at the end of the table), add:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(5) Page 4 (after line 16), at the end of the bill, add:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Schedule 3—Facilities</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Qantas Sale Act 1992</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">1 Subsection 3(1) (definition of <inline font-style="italic">mandatory article</inline> )</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   Repeal the definition, substitute:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"><inline font-style="italic">   mandatory article</inline> means:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (a) a provision included in Qantas' articles of association in accordance with subsection 7(1); or</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (b) a provision included in a Qantas subsidiary's articles of association in accordance with subsection 7(1A).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">2 Part 3 (heading)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   Omit "Qantas'".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">3 Section 7 (heading)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   Omit "Qantas' articles", substitute "Articles".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">4 After paragraph 7(1)(h)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   Insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (ha) for each of the following classes of facilities:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">      (i) facilities for the maintenance and housing of aircraft;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">      (ii) facilities for catering;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">      (iii) facilities for flight operations;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">      (iv) facilities for training;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">      (v) facilities for administration;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">      (vi) all other facilities which Qantas uses in the provision of scheduled international air transport services;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">      require that of the facilities of that class which Qantas uses in the provision of scheduled international air transport services, the facilities located in Australia, when compared with those located in any other country, must represent the principal centre of the relevant operations for Qantas; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">5 After subsection 7(1)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   Insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (1A) The articles of association of a Qantas subsidiary must, on and from the commencement of this subsection, for each of the following classes of facilities:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">      (a) facilities for the maintenance and housing of aircraft;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">      (b) facilities for catering;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">      (c) facilities for flight operations;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">      (d) facilities for training;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">      (e) facilities for administration;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">      (f) all other facilities which the subsidiary uses in the provision of scheduled international air transport services;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">require that of the facilities of that class which the subsidiary uses in the provision of scheduled international air transport services, the facilities located in Australia, when compared with those located in any other country, must represent the principal centre of the relevant operations for the subsidiary.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">6 Section 8 (heading)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   Omit "Qantas'".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">7 Subsection 8(1)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   After "Qantas", insert "or a Qantas subsidiary".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">8 Subsection 8(1)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   After "Qantas'", insert "or the subsidiary's".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">9 Subsection 8(2)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   After "Qantas", insert "or a Qantas subsidiary".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">10 Subsection 10(1)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   After "Qantas" (first occurring), insert ", a Qantas subsidiary".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">11 Subsection 10(1)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   After "Qantas" (second and third occurring), insert ", the subsidiary".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">12 Subsection 10(2)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   After "Qantas" (first occurring), insert ", a Qantas subsidiary".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">13 Subsection 10(2)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   After "Qantas" (second and third occurring), insert ", the subsidiary".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">14 Subsection 10(6)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   After "Qantas" (first occurring), insert ", a Qantas subsidiary".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">15 Paragraphs 10(6)(a), (b) and (c)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   After "Qantas", insert ", the subsidiary".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">16 Subsection 10(7)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   After "Qantas" (first occurring), insert ", a Qantas subsidiary".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">17 Paragraphs 10(7)(a), (b) and (c)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   After "Qantas", insert ", the subsidiary".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">18 Subsection 10(9)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   After "Qantas" (first and second occurring), insert ", a Qantas subsidiary".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">19 Subsection 10(9)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   After "Qantas" (third occurring), insert ", the subsidiary".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">20 Application of amendments</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) The amendments made by this Schedule (other than item 4) apply to a body corporate that becomes a Qantas subsidiary after 17 July 2014.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) The amendments made by items 4 and 5 apply to facilities that Qantas or a Qantas subsidiary first use in the provision of scheduled international air transport services after 17 July 2014.</para></quote>
<para>Just to speak to the amendments and Senator Cameron's request for time: it is a minor change with regard to the issue of Qantas subsidiaries that we have spelt out in the amendments. There is some new language there so, obviously, we are quite happy for time to be taken. I thought it was a minor change, but if we want to discuss it in committee, I am quite happy to. It is just specifying that issue of what would be captured by this. To be quite honest, it is fair to Qantas with regard to any subsidiaries. It is not about anything that has happened in the past; it is just about new subsidiaries.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:13</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator JOHNSTON</name>
    <name.id>00AON</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>In line with what we have said, the government's perspective is that this should not apply to Qantas subsidiaries. We think the position is very, very clear. This is about Qantas and no other corporate entity.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:13</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Labor will not be supporting these amendments. They would appear to impose conditions on all of Qantas's subsidiaries including Jetstar, which would have significant impacts on the operation of those businesses.</para>
<para>Whilst we are not opposed in principle to keeping as many jobs as possible in Australia, these amendments appear to have far-reaching consequences and ought to be considered very carefully. Now is not the time they can be given the serious consideration they deserve.</para>
<para>As I have said, we have just learnt of them recently. It would be appreciated if the senators moving them had spoken to us about their implications. Qantas and its subsidiaries are a listed company among Australia's top 100 companies by market capitalisation. While I have had major disagreements with Qantas management over the years, I believe that Qantas is entitled to be consulted over legislation that would result in Qantas having to make major changes to its business. Clearly, that has not happened with these amendments.</para>
<para>Labor's intention in relation to this bill is to retain part 3 of the Qantas Sale Act, not to amend part 3 in the manner proposed by these amendments. That is the main game for us at the moment. That is why we will not be supporting these amendments, but we would be amenable to discussions on these amendments in the future, without committing ourselves to any outcome.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:15</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator JOHNSTON</name>
    <name.id>00AON</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I pause to thank Senator Cameron for that very responsible approach to this. His methodology and process, in what is a very difficult and complex matter in terms of unintended consequences, is very commonsensical and I want to put on record my appreciation of that response.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:15</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RHIANNON</name>
    <name.id>CPR</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>It is disappointing to hear that Senator Cameron has indicated that Labor cannot support the amendments before us. Page 3 of sheet 7533 revised sets out very clearly that we are talking about Qantas subsidiaries created after 17 July 2014. So let's be clear what these amendments cover: they cover jobs, something that really has dominated the speeches by Labor senators today—the very deep commitment to protect Qantas jobs. We know that the current wording can allow and has allowed Qantas to move many jobs overseas. That is why we have spelt out the different categories here with regard to catering, flight operations, training, administration, maintenance and housing of aircraft. I spelt that out before and I am spelling it out again. People need to know what they are voting for. I appreciate the issues about subsidiaries, but we have the protection. It is nothing in the past; it is not capturing that. We are talking about the future.</para>
<para>I also acknowledge Senator Cameron's comments about time, but we all have to deal with that on the floor, and these are actually very simple amendments. To see the extent of this Labor-coalition deal is really disturbing. Here you can still achieve what you want to do, Senator Cameron, with regard to the weakening of foreign ownership, but, by working here with the Greens, the independent senators and the Palmer United Party, you could lock in greater protection of jobs. It looks like we are about to lose the vote, and that is really disappointing.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:17</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>For the record, I indicate that the lecture from Senator Rhiannon has not made any difference to our position. We are opposed to legislation by ambush and we need time to consider such an important piece of legislation. This has only just come to our attention. We have had discussions with parties on this legislation over a period of time. It was never raised with us until last night, I think, when we became broadly aware of it.</para>
<para>The situation, as I have indicated quite clearly, is that on the principle of what is being proposed—on the principle of maintaining as many Qantas jobs in Australia as possible—we are as one. But I have learnt in this chamber and this parliament: if you come out with a purist position, if you come out with a position that says, 'Either take everything or you get nothing,' you get nowhere. I would rather work through a process. I learnt as a union official that you can never get all you want in one hit and you have to work through issues in a competent, effective manner. I do not think this process is either competent or effective. I caution the Greens that, if you want our support on serious legislative matters, you should talk to us.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:19</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RHIANNON</name>
    <name.id>CPR</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I do appreciate that Senator Cameron has been put in a difficult position by the opposition transport spokesperson, Mr Albanese, who has done a deal with the coalition, but it is not an all-or-nothing approach. Again, it is very simple. It is just giving greater protection to Australian jobs, meaning that we could retain more in Australia. It is actually very straightforward. Senator Cameron indicated that they had the amendments last night and surely that decision could have been made overnight.</para>
<para>The CHAIRMAN: The question is that amendments (2) and (5) on sheet 7533 revised be agreed to.</para>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The committee divided. [12:24]<br />(The Chairman—Senator Marshall)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>11</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Di Natale, R</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                  <name>Ludlam, S</name>
                  <name>Madigan, JJ</name>
                  <name>Milne, C</name>
                  <name>Rhiannon, L</name>
                  <name>Rice, J</name>
                  <name>Siewert, R (teller)</name>
                  <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                  <name>Wright, PL</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>43</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Abetz, E</name>
                  <name>Back, CJ</name>
                  <name>Bernardi, C</name>
                  <name>Bilyk, CL (teller)</name>
                  <name>Birmingham, SJ</name>
                  <name>Bullock, J.W.</name>
                  <name>Bushby, DC</name>
                  <name>Cameron, DN</name>
                  <name>Canavan, M.J.</name>
                  <name>Cash, MC</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                  <name>Dastyari, S</name>
                  <name>Day, R.J.</name>
                  <name>Edwards, S</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, DJ</name>
                  <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                  <name>Fifield, MP</name>
                  <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                  <name>Johnston, D</name>
                  <name>Ketter, CR</name>
                  <name>Leyonhjelm, DE</name>
                  <name>Lines, S</name>
                  <name>Lundy, KA</name>
                  <name>Macdonald, ID</name>
                  <name>Marshall, GM</name>
                  <name>McEwen, A</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                  <name>McLucas, J</name>
                  <name>Moore, CM</name>
                  <name>Nash, F</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, DM</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, B</name>
                  <name>Peris, N</name>
                  <name>Reynolds, L</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A</name>
                  <name>Ryan, SM</name>
                  <name>Seselja, Z</name>
                  <name>Singh, LM</name>
                  <name>Sinodinos, A</name>
                  <name>Smith, D</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G</name>
                  <name>Williams, JR</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names></names>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:27</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The CHAIRMAN</name>
    <name.id>00AOP</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The question now is that this bill, as amended, be agreed to.</para>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The committee divided. [12:29]<br />(The Chairman—Senator Marshall)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>40</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Back, CJ</name>
                  <name>Bernardi, C</name>
                  <name>Bilyk, CL</name>
                  <name>Birmingham, SJ</name>
                  <name>Bullock, J.W.</name>
                  <name>Bushby, DC</name>
                  <name>Canavan, M.J.</name>
                  <name>Cash, MC</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                  <name>Dastyari, S</name>
                  <name>Day, R.J.</name>
                  <name>Edwards, S</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, DJ (teller)</name>
                  <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                  <name>Fifield, MP</name>
                  <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                  <name>Johnston, D</name>
                  <name>Ketter, CR</name>
                  <name>Leyonhjelm, DE</name>
                  <name>Lines, S</name>
                  <name>Lundy, KA</name>
                  <name>Macdonald, ID</name>
                  <name>Marshall, GM</name>
                  <name>McEwen, A</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                  <name>McLucas, J</name>
                  <name>Nash, F</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, DM</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, B</name>
                  <name>Peris, N</name>
                  <name>Reynolds, L</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A</name>
                  <name>Ryan, SM</name>
                  <name>Seselja, Z</name>
                  <name>Singh, LM</name>
                  <name>Sinodinos, A</name>
                  <name>Smith, D</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G</name>
                  <name>Williams, JR</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>15</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Di Natale, R</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J</name>
                  <name>Lazarus, GP</name>
                  <name>Ludlam, S</name>
                  <name>Madigan, JJ</name>
                  <name>Milne, C</name>
                  <name>Muir, R</name>
                  <name>Rhiannon, L</name>
                  <name>Rice, J</name>
                  <name>Siewert, R (teller)</name>
                  <name>Wang, Z</name>
                  <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                  <name>Wright, PL</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names></names>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to.<br />Bill, as amended, agreed to.<br />Bill reported with amendments; report adopted.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division></subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Third Reading</title>
            <page.no>5472</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:32</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator JOHNSTON</name>
    <name.id>00AON</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill be now read a third time.</para></quote>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the bill be now read a third time.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [12:34]<br />(The President—Senator Parry)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>44</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Abetz, E</name>
                  <name>Back, CJ</name>
                  <name>Bernardi, C</name>
                  <name>Bilyk, CL</name>
                  <name>Birmingham, SJ</name>
                  <name>Bullock, J.W.</name>
                  <name>Bushby, DC</name>
                  <name>Cameron, DN</name>
                  <name>Canavan, M.J.</name>
                  <name>Cash, MC</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                  <name>Dastyari, S</name>
                  <name>Day, R.J.</name>
                  <name>Edwards, S</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, DJ (teller)</name>
                  <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                  <name>Fifield, MP</name>
                  <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                  <name>Johnston, D</name>
                  <name>Ketter, CR</name>
                  <name>Leyonhjelm, DE</name>
                  <name>Lines, S</name>
                  <name>Lundy, KA</name>
                  <name>Macdonald, ID</name>
                  <name>Marshall, GM</name>
                  <name>McEwen, A</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                  <name>McLucas, J</name>
                  <name>Moore, CM</name>
                  <name>Nash, F</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, DM</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, B</name>
                  <name>Parry, S</name>
                  <name>Peris, N</name>
                  <name>Reynolds, L</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A</name>
                  <name>Ryan, SM</name>
                  <name>Seselja, Z</name>
                  <name>Singh, LM</name>
                  <name>Sinodinos, A</name>
                  <name>Smith, D</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G</name>
                  <name>Williams, JR</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>15</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Di Natale, R</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J</name>
                  <name>Lazarus, GP</name>
                  <name>Ludlam, S</name>
                  <name>Madigan, JJ</name>
                  <name>Milne, C</name>
                  <name>Muir, R</name>
                  <name>Rhiannon, L</name>
                  <name>Rice, J</name>
                  <name>Siewert, R (teller)</name>
                  <name>Wang, Z</name>
                  <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                  <name>Wright, PL</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names></names>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to.<br />Bill read a third time. </p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division></subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BUSINESS</title>
        <page.no>5473</page.no>
        <type>BUSINESS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Rearrangement</title>
          <page.no>5473</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:36</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That consideration of government business order of the day no. 5 (Land Transport Infrastructure Amendment Bill 2014) not be proceeded with.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BILLS</title>
        <page.no>5474</page.no>
        <type>BILLS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Asset Recycling Fund Bill 2014, Asset Recycling Fund (Consequential Amendments) Bill 2014</title>
          <page.no>5474</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" style="" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" background="">
            <p>
              <a type="Bill" href="r5255">
                <p style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;" class="HPS-SubDebate">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Asset Recycling Fund Bill 2014</span>
                </p>
              </a>
            </p>
            <a type="Bill" href="r5256">
              <p style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;" class="HPS-SubDebate">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Asset Recycling Fund (Consequential Amendments) Bill 2014</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Consideration of House of Representatives Message</title>
            <page.no>5474</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:38</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ABETZ</name>
    <name.id>N26</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the committee does not insist on its amendments to which the House of Representatives has disagreed.</para></quote>
<para>These two bills are an essential part of the government's plank of building the infrastructure of the 21st century. This is a plank which will allow us to develop literally tens of thousands of jobs over the next few years. This is the payment by the Commonwealth, in rough terms, of about $5,000 million, from which we ought to be able to leverage, courtesy of the states, about $33,000 million to develop the infrastructure to get the productivity enhancement projects that this country so desperately needs.</para>
<para>Can I remind honourable senators that this bill in fact also allows the states to lease their assets, as opposed to a direct sale. We believe that it is important to have a fund such as this that can operate without the sorts of impediments that were imposed by the Senate's amendments. We believe that genuine productivity-enhancing investments are what this country needs, as opposed to the sorts of pink batts and school halls that we had in the past.</para>
<para>In summing up, can I also indicate to the Senate that we would invite, especially senators opposite, to heed the words of their shadow spokesman Mr Marles, on 18 June 2014, when asked about this particular legislation:</para>
<quote><para class="block">How could Labor stand in the way of billions, tens of billions, being spent on productive infrastructure?</para></quote>
<para>Mr Marles's answer was:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… if the amendments don't get up, we've said we're not going to stand in the way of this bill.</para></quote>
<para>We would invite Labor to consider those wise words of Mr Marles. I am aware of the time constraints on the Senate. I will therefore leave my remarks at that, other than to say this is a vital part of the government's plan to get the country's economy back on track. I would urge honourable senators to reconsider their position in relation to the amendments which the Househas not agreed to.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:41</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Labor will be insisting on all of our amendments. This goes to the proposition that the coalition argued consistently throughout their period in opposition that there has to be a proper cost-benefit analysis undertaken if we are spending billions of dollars of public money. They argued that position in opposition and we are accepting that proposition now. That proposition cannot be achieved with the proposal that has come back from the other place. There have to be checks and balances on what state governments are doing. There has to be proper analysis of and accountability for federal government money that is spent on any of these projects.</para>
<para>I would just go back to the WestConnex project in New South Wales—the road to nowhere, the road that will create more problems, the road that was simply a political promise by the coalition, and a political promise by the state government, without any cost-benefit analysis, without any analysis of what is happening in relation to roads elsewhere. I will just finish of this. I will not say a lot, because we have had this debate. The Senate takes the view that there has to be accountability on these issues, accountability on state governments and accountability on the money we spend. There has to be a cost-benefit analysis so that the projects are in the national interest, not in the political interests of a particular party. The national interest is what is important here. So I take the view and I would hope that my friends the Greens, my friends in PUP and the crossbench senators take the view that accountability is the key issue, that projects in the national interest are the key issue and that we should stand by the position that we adopted, because our position is in the national interest, not in the interests of any individual political party.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:44</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LUDLAM</name>
    <name.id>I07</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I do not want to go back and recanvass the arguments that were held last night. It was a respectful debate around forced privatisation or effectively bribing state governments to privatise state assets in exchange for Commonwealth funds. The debate was had and the Senate, I think, is upholding its role as the house of review. So we will very strongly be insisting on the amendments that we moved with the Labor Party last night.</para>
<para>The CHAIRMAN: The question is that the motion moved by Senator Abetz that the committee not insist on its amendments be agreed to.</para>
<para> </para>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The committee divided. [12:49]<br />(The Chairman—Senator Marshall)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>29</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Abetz, E</name>
                  <name>Back, CJ</name>
                  <name>Bernardi, C</name>
                  <name>Birmingham, SJ</name>
                  <name>Bushby, DC</name>
                  <name>Canavan, M.J.</name>
                  <name>Cash, MC</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                  <name>Day, R.J.</name>
                  <name>Edwards, S</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, DJ (teller)</name>
                  <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                  <name>Fifield, MP</name>
                  <name>Johnston, D</name>
                  <name>Leyonhjelm, DE</name>
                  <name>Macdonald, ID</name>
                  <name>Mason, B</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                  <name>Nash, F</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, B</name>
                  <name>Parry, S</name>
                  <name>Payne, MA</name>
                  <name>Reynolds, L</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A</name>
                  <name>Ryan, SM</name>
                  <name>Sinodinos, A</name>
                  <name>Smith, D</name>
                  <name>Williams, JR</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>34</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Bilyk, CL (teller)</name>
                  <name>Bullock, J.W.</name>
                  <name>Cameron, DN</name>
                  <name>Carr, KJ</name>
                  <name>Collins, JMA</name>
                  <name>Dastyari, S</name>
                  <name>Di Natale, R</name>
                  <name>Faulkner, J</name>
                  <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                  <name>Ketter, CR</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J</name>
                  <name>Lazarus, GP</name>
                  <name>Lines, S</name>
                  <name>Ludlam, S</name>
                  <name>Lundy, KA</name>
                  <name>Marshall, GM</name>
                  <name>McEwen, A</name>
                  <name>McLucas, J</name>
                  <name>Milne, C</name>
                  <name>Moore, CM</name>
                  <name>Muir, R</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, DM</name>
                  <name>Peris, N</name>
                  <name>Polley, H</name>
                  <name>Rhiannon, L</name>
                  <name>Rice, J</name>
                  <name>Siewert, R</name>
                  <name>Singh, LM</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G</name>
                  <name>Wang, Z</name>
                  <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                  <name>Wright, PL</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names></names>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.<br />Resolution reported; report adopted.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division></subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Minerals Resource Rent Tax Repeal and Other Measures Bill 2013 [No. 2]</title>
          <page.no>5476</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" style="" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" background="">
            <a type="Bill" href="r5300">
              <p style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;" class="HPS-SubDebate">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Minerals Resource Rent Tax Repeal and Other Measures Bill 2013 [No. 2]</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Consideration of House of Representatives Message</title>
            <page.no>5476</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:51</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ABETZ</name>
    <name.id>N26</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the committee does not insist on its amendments to which the House of Representatives has disagreed.</para></quote>
<para>The issue before the committee is the repeal of the Minerals Resource Rent Tax. We went to the last election with a firm promise to repeal that tax, destructive and corrosive as it was for our minerals and resources sector. It is a tax that is pay by about 20 companies, but 125 companies have to report against the tax, despite the fact that they make no contribution.</para>
<para>When this tax was first mooted by the previous government, it was going to raise, according to them, thousands of millions of dollars. We now know that not to be the case. In fact, we are lucky if it raises about $300 million. But against that paltry amount of money raised, the previous government hypothecated expenditures over the forward estimates of some $17,000 million. Now the Senate in its amendments has basically determined that, yes, we will get rid of the tax, which only raised a measly $300 million, but we still want all of the expenditures of some $17,000 million over the forward estimates. I say to the Senate that we cannot have it both ways, and as a government we will not have it both ways.</para>
<para>One of our important election commitments to the Australian people was that we would seek to get the budget back into a sustainable position. To say on the one hand that we will vote down a tax, but to then say we want all of the expenditure and $16,700 million more of expenditure simply does not add up. What is more, we went to the Australia people at the last election saying, 'We want to remove the mining tax and in so doing we will also remove all the expenditures the previous government had hypothecated against that income.' So we took the public odium for saying, 'Sorry, but we do need to abolish the schoolkids bonus; sorry, we do need to abolish the income support bonus,' and so on with about six expenditure measures. So we were up-front, we told the Australian people. Nevertheless, they voted for us because they accepted that there was a challenge to balance the books.</para>
<para>It would be nice to live in a world of magic pudding where we did not have to raise any taxes but could expend a lot of money and spread largesse to the Australia population. But when you are in government you have to try to make things balance up. So my plea to the Senate today is that we accept that it was a very firm election commitment that we would remove the tax together with the expenditures that were predicated or hypothecated on that particular legislation. I also plead, at a time when our resources sector is heading south in relation to production, costs and jobs, that removing this impost will be a much-needed fillip for our resources sector. I will also indicate that the very next payment under the mineral resources tax will be due on 21 July, next week, and that is why we believe it is important for this matter to be dealt with today.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:57</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator MOORE</name>
    <name.id>00AOQ</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Labor Party will be insisting on the amendments that were the result of extensive debate in this chamber last night. Many senators had the chance to contribute to the debate. There were close votes on some of the amendments; some of them got up and some did not; the ones that did get up we will be insisting on. We believe that the payments that were being requested to be removed are important for the people who are most vulnerable in our community We believe that the Senate had the opportunity to have that debate. The Senate made its decisions. We had the vote. We are insisting on the amendments.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:58</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator MILNE</name>
    <name.id>ka5</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Greens will be insisting that the amendments stand. I want to point out the complete hypocrisy of the contribution from the Leader of the Government in the Senate, Senator Abetz. He went to great length to say that if the tax is removed then everything that was hypothecated against that income should go as well—except that was not the story with removing the carbon price. In that very debate and vote that we had just a few hours earlier, the government sought to remove the impost from the big polluters but keep the compensation package and pay for it out of the pockets of Australians in cost shifting. Did they say they were going to lower the tax-free threshold from $19,000 back to $6,000? That would have been the logical thing to do if this was going to be a logical way of dealing with things. They would have said, 'Yes, we are getting rid of the carbon price and we are removing the compensation package to households and we are going to bring down the tax-free threshold.' That would have suddenly got people's attention as to what was going on here, if they had made people aware of the extent of the compensation that would be provided, particularly as it was weighted to low-income households. But, no—you went with the ideologically obsessive line of getting rid of carbon pricing and allowing the big polluters to keep their money, and saying to the Australian community, 'You can keep the tax-free threshold, but we are going to take the money to pay for it out of your wallets when you go to the doctor. We are going to take it out of the wallets of students and their families when they pay back their university loans. We are going to take it out of the pockets of unemployed people. That's what we are going to do.' There was some fancy footwork going on in terms of cost shifting. So let's forget the twaddle that the government is running now about the budget emergency.</para>
<para>I would like to put an offer on the table. I hope the Senate will insist on these amendments, because it will mean that the low-income superannuation contribution will stay. That is long-term sensible planning—to plan for women and the disadvantaged in Australia to have an income towards retirement. Now that the mining tax will stay, I say to Mr Hockey that we are prepared to fix it up so that it brings the billions into the economy that it should be bringing. We are prepared to help with the revenue stream here, Leader of the Government in the Senate; we will help you. We will increase the mining tax to 40 per cent across the board. We will bring in the other minerals. We will end your lurk that has been going on with the depreciation provisions and change it back to book value. That way we can bring in the money to pay for the low-income superannuation contribution. Why would we not do that? Then the right people will be paying—the Glencores of this world, who made $15 billion over the last few years and did not pay one cent in tax. Why? Because they were into tax evasion. One of the people who wrote the mining tax was Xstrata—now Glencore. They have been involved in tax invasion. Let's get together and fix that up. Let's make the mining tax do what it was meant to do. Let's set up a sovereign wealth fund so that, into the future, we can make the transition in the economy. We have now got a whole new opportunity, Leader of the Government, to work together to get the revenue that Mr Hockey says he wants. And I can tell you: the Greens stand here ready to assist.</para>
<para>I call on the Senate to stick with the amendments. We need to keep the low-income superannuation concession. The Greens are ready to assist by fixing up the mining tax because, as the government said this week, it is a matter of choice where you get your revenue stream—a matter of choice. You are choosing to not require the big miners and the big polluters to contribute. You are seeking your revenue stream out of the pockets of the most vulnerable in Australia: the poor, the sick and the unemployed. That is your choice; it is not our choice. Our choice is to take the money from the people who can afford it—the people who are using the resources that belong to the Australian people—to secure a decent return for the people, for the long term. I would have thought that that is more than reasonable. That is our choice. If you choose to let the big miners and the big polluters off the hook, do not expect other people to make a choice that says, 'Let the richest off, let the most profitable off, let the tax evaders off and take the money out of the pockets of the poor.' We are not into that kind of values choice.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:03</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator IAN MACDONALD</name>
    <name.id>YW4</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I discussed this at some length last night, so I will not delay the Senate very long, except to point out again the hypocrisy of the Greens political party. There is Senator Milne, again railing against Xstrata and Rio and BHP. Yet it was the Greens political party that supported Mr Swan in his negotiations with those three miners. A couple of years ago they were fine, because they helped Ms Gillard retain the prime ministership—and the Greens political party came in right behind them. Last night, and again now, we have had to sit in the Senate and listen to these entirely contradictory and hypocritical speeches by the Greens political party over the people they supported two years ago.</para>
<para>I say to Senator Milne: a couple of weeks ago in a debate, I called for some support from this chamber to ask BHP and Rio and Glencore and Woolworths and WesFarmers and Coles and the sugar company up my way to be included in the government's proposal to pay off Labor's $600 billion debt. Did I get any support from Senator Milne or the Green political party at all? Not one murmur. And yet here was an opportunity, Senator Milne. If you believed in what you were talking about, you would have said, 'Yes, I agree with Senator Macdonald. Let's have a debt levy on—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Whish-Wilson</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr Chairman, I rise on a point of order. Could I ask you to direct Senator Macdonald to make his comments through the chair rather than directly at Senator Milne?</para>
<para>The CHAIRMAN: We are in committee, so there is some general tolerance given, but, in order to be precise, Senator Macdonald, could you refer your comments through the chair.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator IAN MACDONALD</name>
    <name.id>YW4</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you very much, Mr Chairman. I shall do that. You can tell the Greens' modus operandi. When the truth comes out that they do not really like, they will take that most banal objection to me continuing to speak. It is typical of the Greens political party, who will stop free speech. They talk about free speech everywhere else, but, when it comes to the chamber, if you do not happen to agree with the Greens political party, then they try to cut off the speech.</para>
<para>The hypocrisy of the Greens political party is so well known that I do not need to go on about that much further. I am looking around the chamber to see which other Queensland senators are here. I see Senator Moore, Senator Lazarus, Senator Waters and Senator Ketter. I just wonder if any of them have given any thought to what this tax means to the industries in Queensland which employ so many of my fellow Queenslanders, who, I might add, are members of the CFMEU, the AWU and several other unions. Just understand what this tax does to the jobs of those workers.</para>
<para>I am aware that in Queensland the coal mining industry is in a bit of a downturn, thanks to Labor and the Greens with the carbon tax and the mining tax. Fortunately, we have got rid of the carbon tax, but the mining tax prohibits or discourages investment in the coal industry, which is so important to my state of Queensland—not only the existing coal mining industry but, I might say, there are a few other coalmining projects on the board. I attended the official opening of one down in the Galilee Basin. I think it was Adani and GVK. I am aware that there is another project down there. I think it is being proposed by a company called Mineralogy, or an associated company of Mineralogy. Both of those projects will need massive investment from foreign sources, but foreign sources say, 'We know with Labor and the Greens that there is a sovereign risk factor and there could well be retrospective legislation, as has happened in the past with Labor and the Greens.' So what will those international investors say? They will say, 'Australia isn't the only place with coal.' In fact, Australia only runs third or fourth in the known coal reserve. They will say, 'Why don't we go to South Africa? Why don't we go to South America? Why don't we invest our money in places which'—regrettably, under Labor—'have a better sovereign risk record than Australia?' It disturbs me. I am humiliated to have to say that about my country, but, with Labor and the Greens in charge, anything can happen.</para>
<para>Honourable senators interjecting—</para>
<para>The CHAIRMAN: Order!</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator IAN MACDONALD</name>
    <name.id>YW4</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Let them go, Mr Chairman. It just demonstrates—</para>
<para>The CHAIRMAN: No. I want everyone to work within the standing orders. Thank you.</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator IAN MACDONALD</name>
    <name.id>YW4</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>That would be a first for the Greens political party, because I think hypocrisy is against standing orders. I again raise those issues. How many mining towns—my fellow Queensland senators have been to some of them—are prosperous? How many of them are booming ahead? How many have 'for lease' signs in the shops in the community?</para>
<para>How many workers do we know who are now looking for a job? How many substantial proponents—like Mineralogy, that I mentioned, and GVK-Adani—have spent so much to develop this asset which Australia has which will provide jobs and wealth for Australians? What is going to be the future for them? I only mention those in coalmining; take it as far as you like. Mount Isa, a town that I visit regularly, is struggling. Why? Because the investment is just not coming through. This is something that I hope all senators, particularly my colleagues from Queensland, will think about.</para>
<para>I cannot believe that Australian Labor Party senators, who are supported by the CFMEU and the AWU and every other union in those mining towns, do not understand. I would proffer a guess—without the facts, but I know that this is pretty true—that a lot of the miners nowadays do not bother to join the union. Why? Because they see how the union treated them with the carbon tax and the mining tax. But to those few who are still represented by the CFMEU and the AWU: please understand the impact of this tax on investment in mines in Queensland which does have an impact on jobs and the wealth of our state and, indeed, our nation. I would certainly hope that any senators who understand the mining industry and any senators who might have associates in the other house who understand the mining industry will appreciate how important it is that this bill is passed.</para>
<para>Senator Milne said that we did not talk about getting rid of the $16 billion worth of promises that went with the mining tax. It was made very clear time and time again by the Liberal Party—and, I might say, the Labor Party attacking us—that if we got rid of the carbon tax then those other things would go too, because you just cannot spend $16 billion and hope that the money will float out of the sky. If you are in the Greens' fairyland you might think that is how it works, but anyone with any understanding of business will know that, much as we would love to spend $16 billion on giving money to everyone, we cannot do it. I ask senators: would you do it in your own home? Would you keep giving away money? To do it you have to go and borrow it, and if you borrow it then some day you have to repay it, and until you repay it you pay interest. Thanks to Labor, we are paying something like a million dollars a day in interest to overseas lenders. Imagine what we could do for hospitals and schools with $1 million a day if we were not paying it in interest.</para>
<para>This is very important. Nobody is being taken by surprise. You can ignore the fairyland economists in the Greens political party, but I had hoped that the Labor Party would at least have some understanding of the fact that you just cannot keep borrowing money. It is very important and I would be very, very disappointed if any of my Queensland Senate colleagues would continue to destroy the industries that have made our state so great by insisting on the amendments to this bill. I urge the Senate to support the motion of Senator Abetz.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:13</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DAY</name>
    <name.id>HYG</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>There is an old saying that you can get anything you want if you help someone else get what they want. The government wants to repeal the mining tax. Family First wants to retain payments to low- and middle-income families. Unlike many others in this place, I do not support the mining tax. But I also do not support the notion: 'This tax pays for that expenditure and this tax pays for that expenditure,' and so on. The Americans have a saying, 'That ain't no way to run a railroad!'</para>
<para>The budget is $400 billion or thereabouts, and the low- and middle-income payments and superannuation contribution represent less than one per cent of the budget. I have looked down through the list of the $400 billion in the budget, and there are lots and lots of savings that can be made without isolating things like the low-income superannuation contribution.</para>
<para>We can have both. We can repeal the mining tax and we can continue to support low- and middle-income families.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:15</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WHISH-WILSON</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I wanted to point out to Senator Macdonald, who talked about Green economists in fairyland, that the architect of this tax that we are now debating today was Dr Ken Henry, who many in this chamber have worked with over the years and who is considered to have been on the of the best heads of Treasury in this country through what are considered the glory years of the Howard government. I just wanted to put that point on record.</para>
<para>What is also worth pointing out—and I am not going to go over it in much detail—and something I read out last night is the latest ranking of Australia on sovereign risk in mining from an international consultancy. It ranks Australia second out of 25 countries for mineral investment—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Ian Macdonald</name>
    <name.id>YW4</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Who is this, the WWF?</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WHISH-WILSON</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>No, this is not the WWF. This is a professional agency that ranks risk in mining investment. They listed 10 key points that they rank countries on for risk in mining investment, and it did include the tax regime as No. 10. Australia still ranked still ranked No. 2 out of 25, including on tax, only marginally behind Canada, and we improved our rating in the last 12 months. So cut the claptrap—the mining the truth debate that you have done in here for three years—and accept that the mining tax has hardly had any impact at all on the mining industry, because they have paid very little tax. This tax was structured by one of the most successful heads of Treasury in our country over a number of years. He has called for conviction for political reform, and you are too weak spined, bending over backwards for the big end of town, to actually fix this tax.</para>
<para>Government senators interjecting—</para>
<para>The CHAIRMAN: I ask you to address your remarks through the chair.</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WHISH-WILSON</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I withdraw my remarks.</para>
<para>The CHAIRMAN: I didn't ask you to withdraw them; I said make them through the chair.</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WHISH-WILSON</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Sorry. Through you, Chair.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:17</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ABETZ</name>
    <name.id>N26</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>If there are not any other contributions, I will quickly deal with a few issues in reverse order. In relation to Senator Wish-Wilson's commentary about Dr Ken Henry, I simply remind him that Dr Ken Henry and all Treasury officials were deliberately excluded from the negotiations of the mining tax when Ms Gillard and Mr Swan thought they had the cerebral capacity to overcome the negotiators from the mining companies. It was then your party that forced that through the Senate with all its faults. I am sure Dr Ken Henry would not want to have the existing mining tax visited upon him as somehow the architect of it.</para>
<para>To Senator Day: you might be right that what we are talking about is about one per cent of the budget, but do you know what happens in government? A hundred people come up to you and say, 'This is only one per cent of the budget; surely you can find the money here.' And then somebody else: 'Oh, it's only one per cent of the budget.' Do that 100 times and your budget is gone. So I say to Senator Day and other crossbenchers that every one per cent of the budget ultimately does add up; and, if you get 100 such requests, the whole lot is out the door. What we said in relation to the mining tax—and I accept Senator Day's comments that in general terms you would not necessarily say that this tax pays for this expenditure, because it all goes into a central pot and then gets redistributed—in coming up with your budget and a framework that ultimately adds up on the bottom line, you do have to make some decisions that we will forgo this revenue and, as a result, forgo this expenditure.</para>
<para>That is what we did with the Australian people. The low-income superannuation contribution was a great policy at the time. It was a Howard government initiative. I was a part of the ministry at the time. It was a great thing. The problem is that our economy has been wrecked and we are now borrowing $1 billion a month just to pay the interest bills on the existing loans. We cannot keep going with all the funding. Is it a question of priorities? Yes, it is. We went to the Australia people with that as one of our priorities.</para>
<para>Turning to Senator Milne's contribution, she who asserts that we as a government should be honouring all our election promises sits in here, day after day, seeking to ensure that we cannot keep our election promises. With the carbon tax, we said very openly to the Australian people: 'We will remove the carbon tax but maintain the compensation payments.' We were very clear. As I said in relation to Senator Day's contribution, you have to add these things up, subtract and come to a bottom line. On the carbon tax, we said that, 'Chances are the lower paid people in the community, such as welfare recipients and pensioners, should still get the benefit of the compensation, even after the carbon tax is removed.' In other words, they should enjoy a real increase in the value of the pension. That is something that those opposite, in particular, never want to talk about when we talk about adjusting the CPI arrangements. We went to the electorate promising that we would keep the compensation if the carbon tax was removed. Similarly, we said that if the mining tax was removed the payments could not be maintained.</para>
<para>In relation to a 40 per cent mining tax, if only we had thought of increasing taxes to make everything work! I say to Senator Milne and those opposite: 'It is like an elastic band: if you pull it too far it will break.' There are coal reserves all around the world. There are iron ore reserves all around the world. For our sector to remain competitive there has to be a competitive taxation regime. We know that it is now no longer as viable to invest in new coal mines and new iron ore mines in this country because of the sovereign risk issues associated with a mining tax. At the end of the day, if you want to raise a tax from iron ore and from coal you have to have a market on the international stage. If you price it with huge taxes, so it becomes uncompetitive, the whole base of the industry collapses. That is why you have to have a moderate approach to ensure that you get the taxation regime so finely tuned that the Australian people can extract the maximum benefit whilst the companies can still remain viable on the world market. That is what we have sought to do in relation to the mining tax.</para>
<para>Finally, as far as the government is concerned a vote to insist on the Senate amendments is a vote and will be a vote to keep the mining tax. The people of Australia will be watching very closely as to what we senators do.</para>
<para>The CHAIRMAN: The question is that the motion moved by Senator Abetz that the committee not insist on the amendments disagreed to by the House be agreed to.</para>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The committee divided. [13.28]<br />(The Chairman—Senator Marshall)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>29</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Abetz, E</name>
                  <name>Back, CJ</name>
                  <name>Bernardi, C</name>
                  <name>Birmingham, SJ</name>
                  <name>Bushby, DC (teller)</name>
                  <name>Canavan, M.J.</name>
                  <name>Cash, MC</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                  <name>Edwards, S</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, DJ</name>
                  <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                  <name>Fifield, MP</name>
                  <name>Johnston, D</name>
                  <name>Leyonhjelm, DE</name>
                  <name>Macdonald, ID</name>
                  <name>Mason, B</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                  <name>Nash, F</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, B</name>
                  <name>Parry, S</name>
                  <name>Payne, MA</name>
                  <name>Reynolds, L</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A</name>
                  <name>Ryan, SM</name>
                  <name>Seselja, Z</name>
                  <name>Sinodinos, A</name>
                  <name>Smith, D</name>
                  <name>Williams, JR</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>37</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Bilyk, CL</name>
                  <name>Bullock, J.W.</name>
                  <name>Cameron, DN</name>
                  <name>Carr, KJ</name>
                  <name>Dastyari, S</name>
                  <name>Day, R.J.</name>
                  <name>Di Natale, R</name>
                  <name>Faulkner, J</name>
                  <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                  <name>Ketter, CR</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J</name>
                  <name>Lazarus, GP</name>
                  <name>Lines, S</name>
                  <name>Ludlam, S</name>
                  <name>Ludwig, JW</name>
                  <name>Lundy, KA</name>
                  <name>Madigan, JJ</name>
                  <name>Marshall, GM</name>
                  <name>McEwen, A (teller)</name>
                  <name>McLucas, J</name>
                  <name>Milne, C</name>
                  <name>Moore, CM</name>
                  <name>Muir, R</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, DM</name>
                  <name>Peris, N</name>
                  <name>Polley, H</name>
                  <name>Rhiannon, L</name>
                  <name>Rice, J</name>
                  <name>Siewert, R</name>
                  <name>Singh, LM</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G</name>
                  <name>Wang, Z</name>
                  <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                  <name>Wong, P</name>
                  <name>Wright, PL</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>5</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Brandis, GH</name>
                  <name>Xenophon, N</name>
                  <name>Cormann, M</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, AE</name>
                  <name>Heffernan, W</name>
                  <name>Collins, JMA</name>
                  <name>Ronaldson, M</name>
                  <name>Conroy, SM</name>
                  <name>Scullion, NG</name>
                  <name>Brown, C</name>
                </names>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.<br />Resolution reported; report adopted.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division></subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BUSINESS</title>
        <page.no>5484</page.no>
        <type>BUSINESS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Rearrangement</title>
          <page.no>5484</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:31</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That business of the Senate notice of motion standing in the name of Senator Hanson-Young proposing the disallowance of the Migration Amendment (2014 Measures No.1) Regulation 2014 be called on immediately and considered for not more than 60 minutes, at which time the question on the motion shall be put.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>REGULATIONS AND DETERMINATIONS</title>
        <page.no>5484</page.no>
        <type>REGULATIONS AND DETERMINATIONS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Migration Amendment (2014 Measures No. 1) Regulation 2014</title>
          <page.no>5484</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Disallowance</title>
            <page.no>5484</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:32</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON-YOUNG</name>
    <name.id>I0U</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Migration Amendment (2014 Measures No. 1) Regulation 2014, as contained in Select Legislative Instrument 2014 No. 32 and made under the <inline font-style="italic">Migration Act 1958</inline>, be disallowed.</para></quote>
<para>The Migration Amendment (2014 Measures No. 1) Regulation 2014 includes a number of elements. It is primarily about punishing vulnerable children who have arrived in Australia on their own, some orphaned, without families, and others who have had to leave their family in escaping war, torture and persecution. Those children who are now already in Australia—who have been found to be genuine refugees, who we have acknowledged, after proper assessment, need and deserve Australia's protection—are being punished through this regulation by the government in removing the special criterion which applied to them in being able to be reunited with their families. The regulation applies to children who, as I have said, are already here.</para>
<para>The government will argue that this is about a deterrence measure. It would only be a deterrence measure if indeed we were talking about children who had not already arrived; whereas we know that, under this government's policy, anybody who arrives here in Australia will be shipped off to Manus Island or Nauru, never to be resettled in Australia</para>
<para>This regulation applies only to people who are already in Australia, have already been found to be genuine refugees and are now members of the Australian community. This is a spiteful and punitive move by the government to simply be cruel for cruelty's sake. It does not act as a deterrent—all it does is strip away any avenue for refugee children to be reunited with any family who may remain.</para>
<para>At this point I want to explain to the chamber the consequences if this regulation were not to be disallowed and were able to continue. There is a young unaccompanied boy named Hatif who lives in Melbourne. I met him a couple of years ago. Hatif—an incredibly bright, incredibly intelligent young guy—is a Hazara from Afghanistan. His father was an interpreter for the Australian armed forces in Afghanistan. Hatif's father was enlisted because of his interpreting skills and abilities, and he worked alongside Australian armed forces officers and other members of the coalition forces. Hatif's father's contribution to the coalition forces in Afghanistan made him a target of the Taliban regime. A number of years ago, when Hatif's father returned from Kabul to their village, the Taliban tracked him down and killed him, as a consequence of the support he was giving to the Australian armed forces. The Taliban left a note on his chest when they killed him—it said that the young boy was next. And that young boy, of course, was Hatif.</para>
<para>The reason Hatif was targeted is that he used to travel with his father from the village to Kabul and around Afghanistan. His English, too, was very good—his dad had obviously taught him how to speak English, and he was very fluent. The Taliban was sending a very clear message to Hatif and his family: 'We have killed the husband and father, and if this young boy enlists in helping the coalition forces, he will be next.' Hatif's mother did what any mother would do in that circumstance, and got her son away from that situation. After having to deal with the murder and death of his father, Hatif left Afghanistan. He fled across the border and lived in Pakistan for a little while. But it is not safe for Hazaras on the Afghan-Pakistan border, as the Taliban make regular attacks on the Hazara community there. Hatif managed to find a way out of Pakistan, and then found himself on a leaky boat to Australia. He was 14 years old—all on his own. His father had died at the hands of the Taliban because of the contribution he had made to the war in Afghanistan and in working alongside Australian defence men and women. Hatif is now in Australia. He has been given his refugee status—he has been found to be in genuine need of protection. He is a smart kid who is studying specialist maths and wants to be an engineering student when he gets to university. And he wants to be able to call Australia home.</para>
<para>Hatif's mother is still hiding in Afghanistan, along with his two younger siblings. Under this regulation, Hatif will never be reunited with his mother and sisters. He will never be given the opportunity to live safely with them here in Australia, despite the fact that we know that he is a refugee, and despite the fact that we know that his father died at the hands of the Taliban—that he sacrificed his life because of the contribution he made working alongside and supporting Australian defence officers. This regulation makes it near impossible for Hatif ever to be reunited with his mother and siblings, and that is why this regulation is wrong. It is spiteful. It is cruel. It does not act as a deterrent. What it does do is condemn young people like Hatif, who are here without their families—</para>
<para class="italic">Senator Bernardi interjecting—</para>
<para class="italic">Senator Cash interjecting—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e68</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON-YOUNG</name>
    <name.id>I0U</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Hatif will never be reunited with his mother and his siblings if this regulation is to continue. And there are many stories like this out there. Those children who have come to Australia, who are already here and have been found to be genuine refugees, are, of course, already incredibly vulnerable, and this government is so callous that it wants a regulation to never allow these children to be reunited with their families.</para>
<para class="italic">Senator Bernardi interjecting—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e68</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Bernardi! Order!</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Siewert</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr Acting Deputy President, I rise on a point of order. Senator Bernardi is talking at a level which you, Chair, probably cannot hear, but which we at this end of the chamber certainly can, and he knows what he is doing. Could you please ask him to remain quiet while Senator Hanson-Young makes her contribution.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e68</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Bernardi, on a point of order?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Bernardi</name>
    <name.id>G0D</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I do accept that I was talking—I was talking about the children who drowned at sea, thanks to Sarah Hanson-Young's policies and those of the former government.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e68</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Bernardi, that is not a point of order, and I would ask that you respect when senators are on their feet and listen quietly.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON-YOUNG</name>
    <name.id>I0U</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I find it incredible that this government is so obsessed with the idea of punishing already-vulnerable, desperate people even further—to the point where we have members of the coalition wanting to make frivolous and insulting comments in this place rather than debate the issue at hand. I will leave it there and I will continue on with the rest of the regulations.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Bernardi</name>
    <name.id>G0D</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr Acting Deputy President, I rise on a point of order. Senator Hanson-Young has suggested that children drowning at sea due to her policies is somehow frivolous and pointless. This is not an episode of <inline font-style="italic">Sea Patrol</inline>. You should say that to Senator Hanson-Young. She is a disgrace, and she is accepting no responsibility—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e68</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Bernardi: firstly, there is no point of order; it is a debating topic. But I think you should withdraw that, Senator Bernardi. I ask you to withdraw that.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Bernardi</name>
    <name.id>G0D</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The <inline font-style="italic">Sea Patrol</inline> thing?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e68</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Bernardi, let us not play games at this late hour on a Friday. You know what I am asking you to do.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Bernardi</name>
    <name.id>G0D</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I am not playing games. What would you like me to withdraw?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e68</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>You know: that derogatory comment that you threw at Senator Hanson-Young. I would ask you to withdraw it.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Bernardi</name>
    <name.id>G0D</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>That she was a disgrace? I withdraw that Senator Hanson-Young is a disgrace—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e68</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Bernardi</name>
    <name.id>G0D</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>but the inferences she paid to me—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e68</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Bernardi!</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Bernardi</name>
    <name.id>G0D</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>were terrible.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e68</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator Bernardi. Senator Hanson-Young, you have the call.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON-YOUNG</name>
    <name.id>I0U</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Mr Acting Deputy President. As I said, this regulation does a number of things. One, of course, is in relation to the unaccompanied children—refugees—who are here, who will be stopped from ever being reunited with their families. I must say: Senator Cory Bernardi spends an awful lot of time talking about 'family values', but you would have to wonder what kind of family values the senator is considering in order to support a regulation that permanently keeps families separated and split. Hatif is a child who is here as a refugee, who has had to flee from torture and persecution at the hands of the Taliban, because of the work that his father did in working alongside Australian defence personnel. You have got to wonder what kind of family values Cory Bernardi really aspires to.</para>
<para>There are, of course, other elements in relation to this regulation, and one which I think is worth mentioning is—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Bushby</name>
    <name.id>HLL</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise on a point of order. I ask that senators be referred to by their correct title in this place.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e68</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Hanson-Young, I remind you of the title that you will use when addressing other senators.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON-YOUNG</name>
    <name.id>I0U</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I will take that on board, Mr Acting Deputy President. One of the other elements of this regulation is reducing the English language criterion for those coming to work in Australia on 457 visas. It is extremely concerning to see this government wanting to make it easier for big companies to exploit workers on 457 visas by not even requiring them to have a high enough English proficiency. We know what happens when temporary skilled workers come into this country in big groups. If you cannot speak English and you do not know what the rules are when you are asked to sign particular work contracts, then you are open to discrimination and exploitation. While it is a very separate matter to the issue of unaccompanied minors, it is one that is important for this chamber to consider. We do not want to see workers coming to Australia on 457 visas only to be exploited because they cannot understand what it is that they are being asked to do by their employers. We do not want to see these workers used and exploited at the expense not just of their own dignity and their own rights as employees but also at the expense of other workers who may have been able to fill those positions and stand up for their rights at work and their entitlement to be treated properly within the workplace.</para>
<para>I know people are keen to get out of this place so I am not intending to drag this debate out anymore, but I just want to reflect on this government's general attitude in this place if they cannot get something through in legislation. We have seen it today. We saw the government's mining tax repeal voted down in this place today. They will not get it through. They cannot have their triumphant first two weeks of the new parliament. I am sure those champagne bottles that were put on ice are now going to have to stay there until the Prime Minister can work out what he is going to do next. What the government will do next is bring regulation after regulation into this place. This is becoming a theme of this government. They cannot get something through in legislation, they cannot convince the chamber that their laws are good enough and they do not want to negotiate on amendments, so they are putting whatever they can through in regulation. I suspect that here in this place we will have many more debates about disallowances because it is the only way the Senate can then discuss a number of these issues and consider them in any type of detail.</para>
<para>If there are things in this regulation that the government believes are necessary, I would urge it to put them into proper legislative form and let us have a proper debate. Let us have a proper discussion and discuss amendments, send them to a committee and have them inquired into. The government has put all these things in the one regulation and it expects the Senate just to tick it on through. We are not interested in that. We are interested in looking at laws properly and in detail and in making sure that what passes this place is going to put Australia in a better place and on track for a better future than would be the case if we simply turned a blind eye to the nasty pieces of regulation that this government wants to sneak through.</para>
<para>I am grateful that we have been able to discuss the disallowance motion here today precisely because there are some important things in this regulation that should not be done in Australia's name. We should not be punishing children who have come here as refugees by preventing them from ever being reunited with their families. It is callous. It is wrong. To suggest and argue that this is about deterrence is just false. It is a lie. This is not about deterrence, because these people are already here. These are children who are already here. They have visas. They are refugees, and they are children who are on their own.</para>
<para>The crazy thing about all of this is that the person who is currently their legal guardian is the immigration minister himself and he is now stopping those children from being able to be reunited with family, if they have any living family left. It is an appalling abuse of his role as the minister and their legal guardian. It should not be being done in Australia's name. We should be looking after these children. They deserve our protection. If they are lucky enough not to be orphans, if they still have a mother, sister or aunt who can help care for them, we should be doing what we can to ensure that those family members do not have to engage a people smuggler and get on a boat to get here.</para>
<para>The crazy thing about this regulation is that it is going to force more families, if they want to be reunited, to come through irregular means. The whole idea of having a proper family reunion process is to give people a safe way to get here. You have to wonder if the people smugglers are rubbing their hands together at the idea of this regulation not being disallowed, because it actually creates a reason why you would have to come on a boat in the first place. How else will you get here to be reunited with your family? We know that families will do desperate things to be together and look after each other. Let's not put them in that situation. If children who are already here as refugees have a living family member, let's help them be reunited. Let's be humane. Let's show a little compassion. Let's show a little more common sense and concern for basic dignity and humanity. I commend the disallowance motion to the Senate.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:51</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CASH</name>
    <name.id>I0M</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I, too, rise to contribute to the debate on the disallowance motion. The first thing I would say to the Senate is that it is always very dangerous when a senator comes into this chamber and gives a speech which is based purely on sentiment and not fact and, even more than that, gives a speech which clearly indicates that the particular senator has not read the explanatory statement to the regulation.</para>
<para>I would just make the following points before turning to the actual disallowance motion. Despite the statements made by Senator Hanson-Young, the regulation does not in any way strip away family reunions for unaccompanied minors under the Special Humanitarian Program. It does not do that. It merely ensures that there is consistency in the way that family reunion under the Special Humanitarian Program is looked at. It puts unaccompanied minors under the same rules as other IMAs who may or may not be given access to a family reunion. I just want to make that very clear to the Senate. The statement that has been put forward by Senator Hanson-Young is completely, totally and utterly factually incorrect. As I said, it is very dangerous when you come into this place when you have not bothered to read the explanatory statement and you give a speech to the Senate that is based purely on sentiment and not fact. This government has to deal in facts.</para>
<para>I would also remind the Senate, following Senator Hanson-Young's speech to the chamber, that this government has granted more than 500 permanent protection visas to Afghan locally engaged employees.</para>
<para>In relation to the regulation that the Australian Greens seek to disallow, the Senate needs to understand that there are very serious issues at stake here. Why did the government bring in this regulation? The regulation that is sought to be disallowed today contains a number of measures that are required to strengthen and improve immigration policy in Australia. Let us not forget the record of the previous government: 50,000 illegal maritime arrivals; in excess of 1,200 people who died at sea; and, of course, the cost to the Australian taxpayer of a budget blow-out of almost $12 billion.</para>
<para>There are five separate schedules that are sought to be disallowed by the disallowance motion. I will take the Senate through each of the schedules and why the government has brought in the regulations. In relation to schedule 1 that is sought to be disallowed, public interest criterion 4020 was introduced in 2011 to strengthen the integrity of Australia's immigration program by detecting and preventing visa fraud. I do not believe that anyone in this chamber supports visa fraud—or at least I would hope they do not. Public interest criterion 4020 provides grounds to refuse the grant of a visa where there is evidence that (a) documents provided by a visa applicant are bogus and (b) statements or claims made by an applicant include false or misleading information that is material to a visa.</para>
<para>The first measure requires all visa applicants for skilled, student, temporary and family visas to satisfy the minister as to their identity or they cannot be granted a visa. Again, I would have thought that was just ensuring the integrity of the program. A person has to satisfy the minister as to their identity before a visa can be granted. This measure is necessary to prevent identity fraud and arises from the government's commitment to strengthen the integrity of Australia's migration program. The accurate identification of noncitizens underpins the integrity of Australia's migration program. All elements of granting a visa, including national security and character checks, rely on accurate identification of a noncitizen who applies for a visa to enter Australia. Failure to correctly identify noncitizens can of course have far-reaching consequences for government. For instance, incorrect identification can be the basis for certain noncitizens receiving other government benefits, such as Medicare or Centrelink, to which they have no entitlement. Disallowing this measure, as Senator Hanson-Young wants to do, would undermine the integrity of Australia's migration program by allowing non-genuine applicants to use fraudulent identities to obtain visas to which they are not entitled.</para>
<para>In relation to schedule 2—the schedule Senator Hanson-Young appears to have alluded to in her speech and, in particular, has given one-off examples and dealt with this on the basis of sentiment as opposed to fact—this measure actually aims to safeguard the lives of young people by removing the previous arrangements of providing a concession to visa applicants proposed by minors. The concession, despite Senator Hanson-Young's arguments, had previously served as an incentive for minors to come to Australia as illegal maritime arrivals. This government does not want to see any more people—men, women, children, unaccompanied minors—dying at sea. So, yes, we will put in place measures that ensure that we do not have pull factors that encourage unaccompanied minors to get on a boat, risk their life and end up being one of the 1,200 who are confirmed to have drowned at sea because of the policies that Senator Hanson-Young supported.</para>
<para>The measure puts the subclass 202 global special humanitarian visa applicants proposed by minors back on an equal footing with applicants proposed by adults. Again, I confirm and I need the Senate to understand that, despite Senator Hanson-Young's statements that we are actually stripping away family reunion for unaccompanied minors, the regulation does not do that. The fact of the matter is all the regulation does is ensure consistency in the way the program itself is implemented. All it does is ensure that the family reunion rights for unaccompanied minors under the special humanitarian program are put on the same footing, the same rules, as applies to all IMAs coming here. Again, it is merely about consistency in the program. But I do stress to the Senate that the measure is part of the government's border protection strategy, which is stopping the boats, preventing deaths at sea and paying a human dividend of an additional 20,000 special humanitarian program places over five years.</para>
<para>In regard to the third measure that is sought to be disallowed, this measure inserts public interest criteria 4020 into four temporary visa subclasses. Two of the affected visa subclasses are part of Australia's Working Holiday Maker visa program, which is a very large and beneficial program for the Australian people, in a range of areas, including of course in its economic and cultural benefits. The good governance and effective management of these visa subclasses is obviously enhanced by public interest criteria 4020, which allows the department to appropriately refuse visa applications in circumstances where the applicant has engaged in fraudulent behaviour, such as providing false or misleading information. I want to stress to the Senate and to those who may be listening to the broadcast that this particular measure allows the department to appropriately refuse visa applications in circumstances where the applicant has engaged in fraudulent behaviour, such as providing false and misleading information.</para>
<para>I would hope that nobody in this place actually believes that the Australian government, the Department of Immigration and Border Protection, should grant a visa on the basis of fraudulent information. It is clearly not in the public interest to allow people who engage in fraudulent behaviour for the purposes of entering Australia to be allowed to do so. Disallowance of this measure, as wanted by Senator Hanson-Young, will affect the department's ability to address inappropriate behaviour of this kind. Decision makers will not be able to refuse visas where it is found that the visa applicants have provided false or misleading information. I will say it again so that everybody in the Senate understands what this disallowance does: it means that decision makers will not be able to refuse visas where it is found that the visa applicant has provided false or misleading information. Again, I say to people, I do not believe it is in the interests of the Australian public to allow the department to enable someone to enter Australia, and then grant them a visa, on the basis of false or misleading information. Disallowance will also limit the ability of the department to maintain or improve the integrity of the overall migration program.</para>
<para>In relation to the fourth measure that Senator Hanson-Young and the Australian Greens seek to disallow, this measure allows the department to share certain personal information about IMAs residing in the community with the Australian Federal Police or the police service of a state and territory government. In relation to this particular regulation, during the 2013 federal election campaign the government indicated its intention to enable the disclosure of information. We took this to the election and the Australian people were completely aware of what we would do if we were elected. Again, we have done exactly what we told the Australian people we would do.</para>
<para>In relation to the disclosure of this type of information, the disclosure supports the compliance activities of the department. I want to confirm to the Senate that those of us on this side of the chamber will ensure under all circumstances that the integrity of the migration program in Australia is maintained. We want to ensure that we put in place strong compliance measures to enable the Department of Immigration and Border Protection to adequately ensure that our borders are protected. In regard to disclosure, the government has become increasingly concerned about people who engage in criminal conduct after being released into the community from being held in immigration detention.</para>
<para>I will just put some facts on the table. Since 8 September 2013, the minister has personally intervened to release over 600 IMAs from held detention arrangements to reside in the community. He has personally intervened to do this. The minister has made these residence determinations under section 197AD of the Migration Act, as it was in the public interest to do so at that time. In doing that, though, the minister needs to ensure that these placements in community detention continue to remain in the public interest. Disclosure of certain personal information will assist the police in identifying whether an individual allegedly involved in criminal activity is an IMA. When this occurs, the department can be informed accordingly and, in the case of a community detainee, the minister is able to consider whether community detention placement or residence determination should be revoked. This measure assists the department in managing the community detention program and it mitigates the risks associated with the exercise of the intervention power—and, as I said, the minister has personally intervened on over 600 occasions to release people from held detention into the community, which is what I thought the Australian Greens wanted.</para>
<para>But, in doing that, we also have an obligation to the Australian public and we have an obligation to the state and territory governments. All this regulation does is ensure that the information that the state and territory police need to identify those in the community who may be involved in inappropriate behaviour or have committed a crime can be given to them—and to enable the minister to then determine whether or not the determination should be revoked. The measure assists the department in managing the community detention program and, as I said, mitigates the risks associated with the exercise of the intervention power.</para>
<para>In relation to the final schedule that Senator Hanson-Young is seeking to disallow, the fifth measure relates to the English language criteria for the subclass 457 visa program. Despite, again, the statements made by Senator Hanson-Young—which are completely, totally and utterly factually incorrect—I confirm for the chamber that the amendments did not alter the English language requirements that must be demonstrated by a subclass 457 visa applicant. I will just say that again: the amendments did not alter the English language requirements that must be demonstrated by a subclass 457 visa applicant. Rather, what the amendments did do—these are the facts—was move the English language requirements for the subclass 457 visas from the body of the regulations into a legislative instrument made by the minister. Again I confirm that the actual English language requirements to be met by subclass 457 visa applicants were not changed by this measure. The amendments simply moved the English language requirements for the subclass 457 visa applicants from the migration regulations to a legislative instrument made by the minister. If this measure is disallowed, the subclass 457 program will revert to a less adaptable framework for the English language requirements for at least six months.</para>
<para>As I have stated, there are five separate schedules that Senator Hanson-Young is seeking to disallow through this disallowance motion. In relation to the five schedules, everything that Senator Hanson-Young said to support the disallowance motion is factually incorrect. I make the point again: it is very easy to come into this chamber and give a speech based on sentiment. On this side of the chamber, however, we are the government. We have to deal in fact. We need to ensure that, at all times, we maintain consistency in Australia's migration program and that we maintain the integrity of Australia's migration program</para>
<para>The only thing that a successful disallowance motion will do today is weaken Australia's immigration policy. We were elected on the basis of restoring integrity and security to Australia's borders, and that is exactly what this government are doing. I would ask the Senate not to support the Greens' disallowance motion.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:10</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator KIM CARR</name>
    <name.id>AW5</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I appreciate that senators are extremely keen to meet their flight commitments, and that will prevent me from talking at great length about the detail of the assertions that have been made by the minister. I think I should just take this opportunity to inform the Senate that the Labor Party will be supporting this disallowance, and we do so because of our deep concern regarding the potential consequences of schedule 2 regarding the Global Special Humanitarian subclass 202 visas for applicants proposed by minors. We are very concerned that the compelling reasons that are provided within the existing regulations do set out quite stringent conditions. We believe that they are satisfactory to meet the circumstances to the country and that various advice to government has suggested that it is appropriate that those criteria remain in place and that these regulations therefore are not necessary.</para>
<para>I am particularly concerned when the minister, in reference to changes to the English language requirements for 457 visas, talked about the need for adaptability for the 457 visa group. It really does disturb me when the minister speaks in those terms—that is, if this is disallowed then it will not be as adaptable. I think we understand what the code is for that provision. I nonetheless remain very concerned about ensuring that the special humanitarian visa program does have integrity and is able to be used to secure a proper humanitarian approach, particularly when it comes to treatment of minors.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:12</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON-YOUNG</name>
    <name.id>I0U</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>As there are no other speakers, I will briefly sum up the debate. I want to place on record that while it may be inconvenient for the government of the day to hear the sentiment—that is, the reality—of what their laws, their regulations mean to real people, that is indeed what we need to be considering in this place. We have a government that want to be as cruel and as mean and as nasty as possible to people just because of how those people arrived. The ridiculous thing, the dangerous thing, the awful thing about this regulation is that this is inflicting pain on people who are already here, children who have already arrived, and yet the government continue to use whatever stick they can find to keep beating up on refugees who are here in the Australian community already as a symbol of their get tough on boats policy.</para>
<para>These children already exist, they are in Australia. They have been given refugee status because we know they are refugees. They have fled war, they have had to run away from torture and brutality, and we are effectively condemning them to be separated from their families for the rest of their lives. I have no shame talking about the sentiment and the real impact on the lives of individuals that this government wants to inflict more pain and suffering on, just because it suits its get tough, get mean approach on refugees. This is from a government that blows not just the dog whistle but the foghorn every time, every single time, things get tough in this place. Today it had its mining tax repeal bill thrown out, and so what does it bring on? It brings on a debate on a disallowance motion on refugees and asylum seekers.</para>
<para>This government continues to hide behind its budget failures and its inability to negotiate and to get proper outcomes in this place. Every time it gets tough, we see Scott Morrison, the minister for immigration, on our TV screens saying, 'Hang on a minute. Remember all those people we're at war with on the seas—the refugees? Remember them? We're stopping them.' It is appalling abuse not just of the intelligence of the Australian people but of the lives of the individuals that this government continues to play with.</para>
<para>There is a boat out on the Indian Ocean holding 153 asylum seekers and the government do not want to talk about it, but they are more than happy to stand up in this place and beat up on asylum seeker children—refugees who are already here. The government continue to use refugees as their whipping boy. When the day is tough, they cannot get their own legislation and their own budget through this place, and they cannot negotiate with the crossbench, they start beating up on refugees to save their own face and their own skin. It is an appalling abuse of people's rights and dignity and the standards by which our parliament should be looking after the most vulnerable—standing up for the rule of law; standing up for basic compassion towards people who have committed no crime.</para>
<para>These are kids—kids who have had to flee war, torture and persecution. Many of them are orphaned already. Many of them only have one sibling left, and, in order to look tough, to play the nasty, fear-mongering, anti-refugee race card and to push everything else off the newspaper headlines, this government uses those children. That is what this regulation is about and that is why it should be disallowed.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the motion moved by Senator Hanson-Young to disallow Migration Amendment (2014 Measures No.1) Regulation be agreed to.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [14:21]<br />(The President—Senator Parry)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>29</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Bilyk, CL (teller)</name>
                  <name>Bullock, J.W.</name>
                  <name>Cameron, DN</name>
                  <name>Carr, KJ</name>
                  <name>Collins, JMA</name>
                  <name>Dastyari, S</name>
                  <name>Di Natale, R</name>
                  <name>Faulkner, J</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                  <name>Ketter, CR</name>
                  <name>Lines, S</name>
                  <name>Ludlam, S</name>
                  <name>Ludwig, JW</name>
                  <name>Lundy, KA</name>
                  <name>McEwen, A</name>
                  <name>McLucas, J</name>
                  <name>Milne, C</name>
                  <name>Moore, CM</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, DM</name>
                  <name>Peris, N</name>
                  <name>Polley, H</name>
                  <name>Rhiannon, L</name>
                  <name>Rice, J</name>
                  <name>Siewert, R</name>
                  <name>Singh, LM</name>
                  <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                  <name>Wong, P</name>
                  <name>Wright, PL</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>34</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Abetz, E</name>
                  <name>Back, CJ</name>
                  <name>Bernardi, C</name>
                  <name>Birmingham, SJ</name>
                  <name>Bushby, DC (teller)</name>
                  <name>Canavan, M.J.</name>
                  <name>Cash, MC</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                  <name>Day, R.J.</name>
                  <name>Edwards, S</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, DJ</name>
                  <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                  <name>Fifield, MP</name>
                  <name>Heffernan, W</name>
                  <name>Johnston, D</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J</name>
                  <name>Lazarus, GP</name>
                  <name>Leyonhjelm, DE</name>
                  <name>Macdonald, ID</name>
                  <name>Mason, B</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                  <name>Muir, R</name>
                  <name>Nash, F</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, B</name>
                  <name>Parry, S</name>
                  <name>Payne, MA</name>
                  <name>Reynolds, L</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A</name>
                  <name>Ryan, SM</name>
                  <name>Sinodinos, A</name>
                  <name>Smith, D</name>
                  <name>Wang, Z</name>
                  <name>Williams, JR</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>6</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Brown, CL</name>
                  <name>Scullion, NG</name>
                  <name>Conroy, SM</name>
                  <name>Ronaldson, M</name>
                  <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                  <name>Xenophon, N</name>
                  <name>Marshall, GM</name>
                  <name>Brandis, GH</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G</name>
                  <name>Seselja, Z</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, AE</name>
                  <name>Cormann, </name>
                </names>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division></subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>5495</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Air Warfare Destroyer</title>
          <page.no>5495</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>5495</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:24</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I table a document relating to the order for the production of documents concerning the air warfare destroyer project.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>5495</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Legal and Constitutional Affairs Legislation Committee</title>
          <page.no>5495</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Report</title>
            <page.no>5495</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:24</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BUSHBY</name>
    <name.id>HLL</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>On behalf of the Chair of the Senate Legal and Constitutional Affairs Legislation Committee, Senator Macdonald, I present the report of the committee on the provisions of the Independent National Security Legislation Monitor Repeal Bill 2014, together with documents presented to the committee.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>ADJOURNMENT</title>
        <page.no>5495</page.no>
        <type>ADJOURNMENT</type>
      </debateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:24</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate, at its rising, adjourn till Tuesday, 26 August 2014, at 12.30 pm, or such other time as may be fixed by the President or, in the event of the President being unavailable, by the Deputy President, and that the time of meeting so determined shall be notified to each senator.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BUSINESS</title>
        <page.no>5495</page.no>
        <type>BUSINESS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Leave of Absence</title>
          <page.no>5495</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:25</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That leave of absence be granted to every member of the Senate from the end of the sitting today to the day on which the Senate next meets.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>STATEMENTS</title>
        <page.no>5496</page.no>
        <type>STATEMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:25</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DAY</name>
    <name.id>HYG</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—During the committee stage of the previous debate on the MRRT, I omitted to say that that was not my first speech. I thought I would put that on record.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>That is now so recorded, Senator Day.</para>
<para>Senate adjourned at 14:26 (Friday)</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>5496</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Tabling</title>
          <page.no>5496</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1></debate>
  </chamber.xscript>
</hansard>
