
<hansard version="2.2" noNamespaceSchemaLocation="../../hansard.xsd">
  <session.header>
    <date>2013-06-27</date>
    <parliament.no>43</parliament.no>
    <session.no>1</session.no>
    <period.no>9</period.no>
    <chamber>Senate</chamber>
    <page.no>0</page.no>
    <proof>0</proof>
  </session.header>
  <chamber.xscript>
    <business.start>
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        <p class="HPS-SODJobDate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
          <span class="HPS-SODJobDate">
            <span style="font-weight:bold;"></span>
            <a type="" href="Chamber">Thursday, 27 June 2013</a>
          </span>
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        <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
          <span class="HPS-Normal">
            <span style="font-weight:bold;">The PRESIDENT (Senator the Hon. John Hogg)</span> took the chair at 09:30, read prayers and made an acknowledgement of country.</span>
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        <p class="HPS-Line" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
          <span class="HPS-Line"> </span>
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    </business.start>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>MINISTERIAL ARRANGEMENTS</title>
        <page.no>4209</page.no>
        <type>MINISTERIAL ARRANGEMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:31</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—For the information of senators, the following additional representable roles are added to the government senators' duties in the Senate. I advise the Senate that I am the new Leader of the Government in the Senate and the Minister representing the Prime Minister, and will also take questions on Public Service integrity and on social inclusion. Senator the Hon. Bob Carr will take questions on sustainability, environment, water, population and communities, the Attorney-General's portfolio, emergency management and justice. Senator the Hon. Kate Lundy will take questions on broadband, communications and the digital economy, infrastructure, transport and road safety. Senator the Hon. Don Farrell will take questions on agriculture, fisheries and forestry, and resources and energy. Senator the Hon. Jan McLucas will take questions on regional development and local government, and on mental health reform. Senator the Hon. Jacinta Collins is the new Deputy Leader of the Government in the Senate and will remain in her position as Manager of Government Business in the Senate. Senator the Hon. Kate Lundy will act in the Manager of Government Business role for the sitting tomorrow. I have written to leaders of the parties in the Senate of these changes.</para>
<para>I also want to take, if the Senate will forgive me, just a short period to acknowledge the contribution of my predecessor, Senator Stephen Conroy. Senator Conroy is a man of great Labor heart, and he has made, and will continue to make, a great contribution in this place. I regret that our work together as a leadership team was as short as it was and thank him for his service as Leader of the Government in the Senate.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:32</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ABETZ</name>
    <name.id>N26</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I congratulate Senator Wong and Senator Collins on their election as leader and deputy leader respectively of the government in this place. I also acknowledge the role of Senator Conroy, who was Senator Wong's predecessor. He was a worthy opponent. I enjoyed our chitchat across the table when others were shouting over us from time to time and I look forward, albeit I do not know for how long, Senator Wong, to us being able to engage in that as well. I also acknowledge the role of Senator Ludwig. Politics is a tough game—a brutal game—from time to time, and, for those who do suffer as a result of that, I just wish them all the best personally. If I may, I might be as droll as to observe that a man in a blue tie got rid of a female prime minister but note that, in this place, a female replaces a man with a blue tie. But we wish them all the best.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:34</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator MILNE</name>
    <name.id>ka5</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I, too, add my congratulations to Senator Wong in her new position and also to Senator Collins. I also acknowledge the work and contribution of those who have served on the front bench here in the Senate under Prime Minister Gillard, and look forward to an orderly transition at the end of this week to an election before the end of September.</para>
</speech>
</debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BUSINESS</title>
        <page.no>4210</page.no>
        <type>BUSINESS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Consideration of Legislation</title>
          <page.no>4210</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:34</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I move:</para>
<para>That the following general business orders of the day be considered today under the temporary order relating to the consideration of private senators’ bills:</para>
<para>Marine Engineers Qualifications Bill 2013 (No. 2).</para>
<para>No. 111 Migration Amendment (Reinstatement of Temporary Protection Visas) Bill 2013 [No. 2].</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BILLS</title>
        <page.no>4210</page.no>
        <type>BILLS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Marine Engineers Qualifications Bill 2013</title>
          <page.no>4210</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" style="" background="" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint">
            <a type="Bill" href="r4974">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Marine Engineers Qualifications Bill 2013</span>
              </p>
            </a>
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        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>First Reading</title>
            <page.no>4210</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:35</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WILLIAMS</name>
    <name.id>I0V</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the following bill be introduced:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">A Bill for an Act relating to maritime safety to ensure the maintenance of standards of training and certification of marine engineers.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WILLIAMS</name>
    <name.id>I0V</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I present the bill and move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill may proceed without formalities and be now read a first time.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a first time.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>4210</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:36</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WILLIAMS</name>
    <name.id>I0V</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill be now read a second time.</para></quote>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WILLIAMS</name>
    <name.id>I0V</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to table an explanatory memorandum relating to the bill.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WILLIAMS</name>
    <name.id>I0V</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I present the explanatory memorandum.</para>
<para>I have great pleasure in introducing the Marine Engineers Qualifications Bill 2013.</para>
<para>This bill has a simple aim of safeguarding the safety standards in Australia’s marine industry and address deficiencies in the Marine Safety (Domestic Commercial Vessel) National Law Amendment Bill 2013. Under normal circumstances matters of this detail are dealt with by regulation rather than by legislation. But due to three significant mistakes by Labor, it is imperative that we now act to prevent the lowering of regulatory safety training and certification standards for marine engineers in Australia. That is the big risk here. Without the passage of this bill, there is a real risk that regulatory safety training and certification standards for Australia's marine engineers will be lowered—and that is the last thing we want.</para>
<para>The first mistake under this government is that the regulator, the Australian Maritime Safety Authority, has become so politicised that there is real doubt as to whether it can produce impartial safety regulations on merit. This is a major problem for our seafaring industry and has to be addressed. Unfortunately, we can see again the influence that the unions are having on Labor policy. And we saw it again last night when another Prime Minister was deposed. This is now par for the course for Labor—governing for the unions and their own self-interest, not for the Australian people.</para>
<para>Returning to the Marine Engineers Qualifications Bill and the reasons it must pass, the second significant mistake is that, due to political interference by non-engineer interests, AMSA abandoned on 22 October 2009 the considered engineering reforms they had agreed to with the Australian Institute of Marine and Power Engineers. Instead, there has been the attack on the marine engineering safety training and certification standards that I have just referred to.</para>
<para>The third mistake is that, as a result of the poor drafting of Minister Albanese's shipping reform bills and acts, vessels currently covered by the Navigation Act 1912 standards will instead default to a lower standard under the Maritime Safety (Domestic Commercial Vessel) National Law Act 2012, or the national law as it is known. Let us look at this in more detail. AMSA has attacked engineer standards of training and certification throughout the entire Marine Order 3. I asked many questions at Senate Estimates on this issue. I continually question them on the processes, for which there are genuine concerns that accountability is being downgraded.</para>
<para>I will list where these deficiencies lie. Engineering standards of training and certification are being attacked through MO3 in the following ways: by counting sea service as a rating as engineering qualifying sea service, which clearly it is not; by deleting tables used for assessing workshop service; by deleting a table showing the framework of state and federal issue marine engineer certificates and how they relate to each other; by deleting the three-year duration of training for an engineer cadet. That is amazing. How are you going to train a cadet in less than three years? Look at our apprenticeships around Australia. And the final ways in which the engineering standards of training and certification are being attacked are by deleting the requirement that engineers not be certified unless they pass an examination by an AMSA examiner and by allowing AMSA to foist the audit of the college course onto a third party.</para>
<para>And that is just the start. AMSA drafted successive changes to Marine Order 3 from the point of view of desk officers and of ratings—that is, relatively unskilled seamen. Because of all the requirements, that adversely impacts on engineer officers. What are these adverse effects? Firstly, last time, AMSA's proposed changes incorrectly required engineers to meet the eyesight standards for the desk, which would have ended the career of hundreds of engineers. And this government talks about protecting Australian jobs! The time before that, AMSA's proposed changes would have refused to issue an engineer a certificate unless the candidate had passed the deck subject for radar training and for radio operator training. Neither of these is relevant for engineers—more red tape. This time, AMSA has incorrectly deleted the recognition of separate engineer certificates for steamships and for motor ships. This mistake is clearly unsafe and ridiculous. An engineer who is qualified for only motor ships cannot safely operate steamships, and vice versa. This is the downgrade in standards that I have been referring to. This time AMSA was too busy putting in new certificates for ships cooks to provide certificates for ships electrical officers.</para>
<para>AMSA also proposed changes which would have prevented hundreds of engineers from renewing the periodic validity of their certificates. And now we start to work out what this is all about. What is really behind the drop in these standards? The Australian Maritime Safety Authority has allowed the interests of other parties, such as the Maritime Union of Australia, to press them to reduce engineer training standards. The MUA is a union that our new Deputy Prime Minister, Anthony Albanese, is aligned with. I say 'new' Deputy Prime Minister because we do not know how long he and Prime Minister Kevin Rudd will remain in their jobs. The frequency of turnover would suggest it will not be long before the knives are out again. Such political interference is easy to justify when a change to ratings regulations simultaneously changes engineers regulations. These examples could have been prevented if AMSA would revert to a separate marine audit just for marine engineer qualifications, as previously existed. This bill seeks to make that a mandatory requirement. Let us get the politics out of this and keep the standards high.</para>
<para>Turning to the second of these government mistakes, AMSA, apparently due to political interference from Minister Albanese and his factional colleagues the MUA, have abandoned the considered engineering reforms they had on 22 October 2009 agreed to with the Australian Institute of Marine and Power engineers. Here we go—flip flop again. Those reforms included an agreement that the new Marine Order must require AMSA to not just turn away applicants who had the wrong trade to be an engineer but must instead require case-by-case evaluation of post-trade experience to help make up workshop efficiency and to evaluate alternative trades. Those reforms also included a breakthrough undertaking that would assess the maintenance experience of class 3 state certified engineers as a substitute for the possession of an approved engineering trade and thereby allow them access to AMSA certification.</para>
<para>These case-by-case assessments would require decisions about marine engineering qualifications to be made not by non-engineering managers but only by suitably qualified AMSA engineer examiners—and this too has been agreed to by the AMSA chief executive officer. But after political interference with AMSA, the authority suddenly changed its mind. It walked away from the agreement with the marine engineers, who were holding discussions in good faith, once suspicions were aroused as to why this was so—but walk away it did. The result is hundreds of Australians with not quite the right trade are turned away from a highly skilled future career now that engineering reforms have not been progressed. This bill addresses this and requires AMSA to implement what it agreed to.</para>
<para>I said at the outset this legislation seeks to address three government mistakes. This is the third. It has enormously reduced applications of Marine Orders part 3 as a result of the repeal of the Navigation Act 1912. The Navigation Act 1912 covered all Australian ships that traded internationally or between the states. Astonishingly, its replacement, the Navigation Act 2012, applies only to ships that trade internationally. Why is that so? Let me elaborate. Vessels that trade between the states are now covered by the Marine Safety (Domestic Commercial Vessel) National Law Act 2012, which sets much lower safety training and certification standards. In fact, this new act further reduces standards compared to those applicable under the state laws this new act replaces. That is why the Marine Engineer Qualifications Bill 2013 is necessary to mitigate in some small way both these reductions in marine engineer standards.</para>
<para>If passed by parliament, the Marine Engineers Qualifications Bill 2013 would require regulations issued pursuant to the Navigation Act 2012, to the extent they deal with marine engineering training certification matters, to implement and give effect to the 15 standards set out in the bill. The same would apply with respect to the regulation issued pursuant to the Marine Safety (Domestic Commercial Vessel) National Law Act 2012, which deals with vessels of at least 3,000-kilowatt propulsion power or 500 gross registered tons. The redraft of the Navigation Act 1912 was necessary because the Navigation Act 1912 only applied to trading vessels during the time they were on an interstate or overseas voyage. That definition does not include an oil and gas industry vessel, which, of course, had not been contemplated in 1912.</para>
<para>In relation to Australia's substantial oil and gas industry, parliament tried to resolve this with a later amendment whereby section 283G attempted to be deem a foreign registered offshore industry vessel to be covered by the provisions of the Navigation Act 1912 as if it were registered in Australia and not registered in any other country. But AMSA's view, based on Crown law advice, was that the deficiencies of a section 2 application of the act—that is, only covered trading vessels—could not be overcome by parliament's deeming provision. So Minister Albanese, now Deputy Prime Minister Albanese, dealt with these deficiencies in the Navigation Act 1912 by having it completely redrafted. As a result, does the new Navigation Act 2012 cover commercial vessels engaged in Australia's offshore oil and gas industry in our claimed Exclusive Economic Zone? The answer to that question is: no, it clearly does not. Even Australian based companies like Farstad Shipping in Melbourne and Swire Pacific in Perth, which actually own their offshore vessels, find it much cheaper to not register or flag them in Australia, so the Navigation Act 2012 has little application. I will use an analogy: if you wanted to run a trucking business from Melbourne to Brisbane, you would have to register your truck in Australia and comply with Australian regulations. That is obvious; that is the law. But there is nothing in the Navigation Act 2012 or the national law that requires anyone to register their ships in Australia to conduct a commercial shipping business from Melbourne to Brisbane. I will repeat that because we are now getting to the crux of this whole debate. The much vaunted Navigation Act 2012 does not require anyone to register their ships in Australia to conduct a commercial shipping business from Melbourne to Brisbane. But wait, there is more. Nothing in the Navigation Act 2012 or the national law will require anyone to register their ships in Australia to operate commercial oil and gas vessels in our oilfields in our claimed Exclusive Economic Zone.</para>
<para>The Navigation Act 2012 expressly only covers ships that trade from Australia to international destinations. How many would that cover, you ask. Would it cover 50, 100 or 150 perhaps? No, there are only seven such ships in Australia, just seven—that is all. The Navigation Act 2012, AMSA claims, will cover more vessels than this but it just is not so. All the other ships that were covered by the Navigation Act 1912 will now fall through to a lesser safety regulatory standard under our state based regulatory system under the new national law.</para>
<para>The effect of section 9 of the Navigation Act 2012 will be that the offences and penalties of the legislation only apply to a foreign vessel while it is in an Australian port or entering or leaving an Australian port or internal waters such as rivers, lakes or a territorial sea other than in the course of innocent passage but not when that vessel is out in the Australian oilfields in our claimed Exclusive Economic Zone.</para>
<para>Absurdly, even if Farstad or Swires chose to reregister their oil and gas vessels in Australia, the default position is that they would not be covered by the Navigation Act 2012 because it only covers Australian registered ships while they are proceeding on an overseas voyage. Instead, the default position is that the Australian registered offshore oil and gas vessel would be covered by the national law and the lesser safety training certification standards it now introduces. That is what this legislation is trying to address. There is an ability to voluntarily opt-in to be regulated by the Navigation Act 2012. In other words, it is your choice. Isn't that like telling a motorist that the speed limit is 100 kilometres per hour and he can choose to drive to that limit if he wants to? This is clearly a flaw.</para>
<para>Federal and complementary state legislation has been passed by parliament to empower AMSA as the nation's single maritime jurisdiction for commercial vessels, and it was intended that the lower-safety-standard states be brought up to the standard of the better regulated states in a new national law. If that had happened we would not be here talking about it today. But that is not the scenario in front of us. Instead of every state adopting best practice, AMSA has taken the best states down to the lowest common denominator—that is, the hands-off, self-regulatory Queensland model, where the vessel owner, not the independent regulator, decides the manning and certificate requirements and decides whether his vessel is seaworthy. That is some regulation?—it is not.</para>
<para>Under the existing state system the lower safety standards of the states are replaced by the higher standards of the Navigation Act 1912 whenever a vessel crosses a state border, and that is consistent with international practice, where a ship voyage of more than 1,000 kilometres would normally cross a national border and trigger equivalent safety standards.</para>
<para>However, the new national law will no longer do this. From 1 July 2013 a vessel will be able to sail out of Port Phillip Bay, turn left and sail all the way around Australia on a voyage of more than 60,000 kilometres before returning to Melbourne, without triggering the higher Marine Order 3 standards that would currently apply once it crossed a state boundary. Such a voyage is the equivalent of three around-the-world voyages, yet AMSA will no longer apply the higher safety training/certification standards. Safety on commercial vessels will be reduced as a consequence.</para>
<para>Examples of how the national law standards are less than those under the Navigation Act 2012 and MO3 include that the national law counts only half the defined propulsion power in determining the level of training and certification required for a given vessel. It no longer triggers Navigation Act standards when a vessel exits state waters, does not mandate the three-year training requirement for a marine engineer watchkeeper, does not mandate AMSA oral examinations, does not ensure AMSA directly audits college course providers, and does not maintain the academic entry standards of engineer cadets.</para>
<para>Today I have attempted to give you an overview of what the Marine Engineer Qualification Bill seeks to address. It is about retraining, safety standards and certifications. It is about reducing union interference in our shipping industry. It is about jobs for Australians and proper regulation. I commend the bill to the Senate.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:55</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to oppose the Marine Engineers Qualification Bill 2013. I must say that this is one of the more bizarre contributions I have heard from Senator Williams, and I have heard some bizarre contributions from Senator Williams in my time in the Senate. Here we have—and I say this with great affection, Senator Williams—a cow cocky from Inverell pontificating about maritime safety. I do not think Senator Williams saw the sea or a boat until he was about 24 years old, but now he is an expert on maritime safety.</para>
<para>On one hand he is arguing that this is about union power and union interference, and on the other hand he is arguing the speaking-note points from the Australian Institute of Marine and Power Engineers. What is going on? There is a whale in the bay, somewhere, Senator Williams, and I am sure we will find it.</para>
<para>I am not sure if they have opened a port in Inverell! Maybe this is one of the National Party's great ideas: 'We're going to open up the north.' Maybe they are going to build a canal from Sydney Harbour up to Inverell, and Senator Williams will be the expert on marine safety! Give us a break!</para>
<para>This is even more bizarre. Here we have the so-called coalition, who talk about getting rid of union influence and union power, standing here running the speaking notes for the Australian Institute of Marine and Power Engineers. I have no problem with that. That is fine, but do not be a hypocrite. Do not bring hypocrisy into this.</para>
<para>I really do not know why you have introduced this bill, to be honest. There is already a bill in the lower house, still to be discussed. We are still to see the details, and yet here we have a bill being introduced by the cow cocky from Inverell on behalf of the maritime industry in Australia. What is going on? There is a whale in the bay here; there is no risk about that, Senator Williams. We will find out what it is about. We will search out what this is about.</para>
<para>But let's go to the serious points on this. I would be one of the few senators in this place who have 'served their time', in the old colloquialism. I served my time as a fitter and engineer in Scotland. And I was a time-served tradesperson.</para>
<para>An opposition senator interjecting—</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Richardson—I am sorry, that should have been 'Senator Ronaldson'—you were lucky to get me here, bringing my talents and my skills here—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Williams</name>
    <name.id>I0V</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr Acting Deputy President, I rise on a point of order. Senator Cameron referred to Senator Ronaldson as Senator Richardson. Senator Richardson was the one on their side who used to be here counting numbers like they have been doing in the last couple of days—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I07</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>That is not a point of order. Senator Cameron did correct himself.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Ronaldson, I profusely apologise. I think it was because I was watching a lot of the former Senator Richardson last night. So I think you could understand and forgive me for that indiscretion. But let's get back to the sheep shearer from Inverell.</para>
<para>As I said, I am one of the few in this place who have actually served an apprenticeship. I was a union organiser, up to the nation secretary of the Australian Manufacturing Workers Union. In that time, I went through the whole process of helping to move Australian industry from the old time-served approach that I worked under to a competency based standard where if you could demonstrate your competencies you could access payment for your skills. I do not want people to have to go to back to what I had to do, which was serve 4½ years as an apprentice—and when I started off, my apprenticeship was five years, but it went to 4½ years during my apprenticeship. After four years, I was doing the work that tradesmen were doing in the place that I was serving my time but being paid a fifth-year apprentice's rate of pay. But I had the competencies; I had the skills. I had been there for four years. What Senator Williams is trying to do with this bill—and I am not sure that this is all he is trying to do—is say to people, 'If you've got the skills, you shouldn't be paid for them.' As a strong trade unionist, I believe that if you have the skills and the ability and the qualifications you should be paid for them.</para>
<para>What is going on here—and you heard Senator Williams start off—is not about skills and training. Rather, it is a pretty blatant attack on the government. I am okay about attacks on the government. I think that I can look after myself in this place and I will continue to do that.</para>
<para class="italic">Senator Cash interjecting—</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>So Senator Cash is now an expert on the maritime industry? Senator Cash, you should take one of those pills. Then you might feel a bit better. You are always a bit agitated when you are in here. You should really get that anger stuff under control.</para>
<para>What we need to do here is look at the facts. We have a National Party member supporting a small union. It is a good union; I do not have a problem with that union—it is trying to safeguard what it sees as an issue for its members. I think that it is wrong in this issue, because we should move to competency based standards. It is what is happening around the rest of the world and all over Australia. I will tell you, Senator Williams, that you know as well as I do that, if you support the principle of this bill and that is coalition policy, then what you will be doing as a coalition—on the basis of a lack of understanding about how competency based standards work—is threatening the capacity of this country to train young Australians for the jobs of the future. And you nodded, Senator Williams, so you agree. We find out a little about why you move this bill.</para>
<para>What would happen if this passed would be more 457 visas. Your bill would mean that there would be little or no flexibility in the training system in the maritime area. If there was any technological change—and technological change is a feature of industries including the maritime industry—then we would have to come to parliament and get an act of parliament passed to allow the training system to reflect the technological change that has taken place in the industry. How dumb is that? How old-fashioned is that? Why would the coalition be supporting that type of approach? It just does not make sense. If this bill went through, one of the other implications would be that every engineer in the country working in the maritime sector would have to be retrained. They would have to have their certificates assured. That would mean a huge a cost to the industry and could bring the industry to a halt. What is this about?</para>
<para>Normally, if a bill is to be brought to the Senate, we have a process in which there is some discussion about the bill so that we can work out the rules of engagement, if you like, learn what the bill is about, come to understand where the issues are and then engage on those issues. This has not been done in that way. This bill has been brought in here without any consultation or discussion and put on the table by the coalition. It is a bill that is not in the interests of individual engineers or workers in the industry or the industry generally. And it is a bill that is not in the national interest. What is going on? I have never seen a bill come here that would have such bad effects on the productive performance and safety of an industry and on the capacity for workers in the industry to work their way up in that industry.</para>
<para>This bill is about a blockage on workers progressing through and increasing their skills. I have been there as a fitter. I have seen engineers trying to block fitters from getting access to skills and access to wider work on the job. Anyway, I have always thought that an engineer is simply a fitter with a huge ego. I have worked with them, Senator Williams. The people who do the work on the job are the fitters. The engineers ponce around there from time to time while the fitters get out and do the job. I am biased on that, because I am a fitter.</para>
<para>Anyway, I want to get back to this issue about safety, because I will not come in here and be accused of not dealing with the issue of safety. This government is a government that has actually taken safety seriously. We have consulted on every aspect of safety with industry and with unions—something those on the other side of the chamber have never done. You hear them—and I will not be lectured by the coalition on safety—and they have suddenly discovered asbestos, now that there is an issue with Telstra. They have suddenly discovered that asbestos is a problem. Yet when I was national secretary of the AMWU we were trying to get asbestos banned for years and the coalition would not ban asbestos. It was one of the worst killers of working people in this country, inflicting people with horrible deadly diseases, and they would not ban it. When I was the national secretary of the union, the coalition would not call a ban on asbestos. They wanted consultation after consultation after consultation. So do not come in here, Senator Williams, lecturing me or the government on the issue of safety. Look back at the record of the coalition on safety.</para>
<para>I do not know what is going on here, but obviously somehow or other you got AIMPE's speakers notes on this bill. And are you have faithfully and very competently read those speakers notes to the chamber. So, when you ring AIMPE or they ring you, you will get the tick. But I do not accept the proposition that you are putting up about being a member of the MUA—and I think this is what it is all about. Senator Williams, the MUA are here to stay; just get that through your head. The MUA are here. They represent workers in the maritime industry and do a great job representing workers in the maritime industry. We know the coalition despises the MUA because they look after workers. We know the coalition put the dogs on the docks. We know the coalition put the security guards, with their headgear on, on the docks and threw workers off the job. That is your concern for the maritime industry—nothing but a blatant attack on working people in this country. So don't come in here saying you are concerned about safety standards in the maritime industry, that you are concerned about workers having an opportunity to actually gain a trade or have time-served standards. Time-served standards are a thing of the past—like the National Party, which is a bigger thing of the past in its own right.</para>
<para>Anyway, you have to understand what you are talking about, Senator Williams. I spent years as the national secretary of the AMWU, working through competency based standards for workers in the manufacturing industry. That has been a boon to individual workers and to the industry. It was the right thing to do, and we must, in my view, ensure that the national standards that are being put in place are the correct standards, that there is proper overview of those standards and that the standards meet the needs of workers and industry to have a productive and effective industry with basic skills and to have high skills available to all workers. When I think about what the issue is, it is that you do not like the MUA, so we should not spend any time on these issues. An MUA member who is a cook on an oil rig getting proper skills to make sure the oil rig does not close down because the cook has poisoned the crew—don't do that, that's not on! The cook is MUA, so don't let the cook get on with getting some classification skills or some competency standards! There are other workers at oil rigs and on ships in this country, and they do have the capacity, in my view—and should have the capacity, if they have picked up skills over the years—to have those skills recognised. It is called RPL, recognition of prior learning, which is recognised all over in competency based standards. What this bill would do is stop ordinary Australians getting access to those skills so that jobs could be performed. It is saying: put skilled jobs in the maritime industry on the shortage-of-skills list and let's bring in more 457 workers from overseas.</para>
<para>I think that is what is really at the bottom of this; I think that is what it is. It is about trying to restrict the skills in this country so that we need to bring more workers in from overseas. Well, I am not xenophobic. Why would I be xenophobic? I have been lucky enough to come here from Scotland. In case anyone didn't recognise it, I do not quite have a full Aussie accent. I am getting there—fair dinkum, I am. But this is about the coalition's position. This is about what they want. They want 457 workers. They say they want the skilled migration system in this country to be based on 457 workers. So what do you do? You get some 457 worker, you bring them in and the boss says, 'If you play up, join the union or demand more than I'm prepared to give you, then you're on the next boat or the next plane out of here.' That is what this mob wants. And this bill will reinforce it, because it will restrict the achievement of skills of workers in the industry, and we should oppose it—and we are opposing it.</para>
<para>So Senator Williams, I do not think the Sydney to Inverell canal is going to be built very quickly. If we were ever unlucky enough to have a coalition government in this place, maybe you would muscle up on Mr Abbott and say, 'We've got to build the Sydney to Inverell canal, because I want you to set me up as the guru for training for the maritime industry! I'm only a broken down shearer, but I want to be the guru on maritime industry training!' Mate, you hadn't seen a ship until you were 24 years old. Give us a break! And that is when you went for a trip on the ferry on Sydney Harbour, no doubt wearing a hat with the corks on it. I saw that photo of you on your first trip on Sydney Harbour—a 24-year-old, cow cocky sheep shearer, but not a maritime engineer. He is a good bloke, 'Wacka', but he is a bit wacko on some things, especially this! Mate, you should stick to your knitting. You just do not understand it. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:15</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKENZIE</name>
    <name.id>207825</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the question be now put.</para></quote>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>00AOS</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the second reading motion be now put.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [10:20]<br />(The President—Senator Hogg)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>31</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Back, CJ</name>
                  <name>Bernardi, C</name>
                  <name>Boswell, RLD</name>
                  <name>Boyce, SK</name>
                  <name>Bushby, DC</name>
                  <name>Cash, MC</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                  <name>Cormann, M</name>
                  <name>Edwards, S</name>
                  <name>Eggleston, A</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, DJ</name>
                  <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                  <name>Fifield, MP</name>
                  <name>Heffernan, W</name>
                  <name>Humphries, G</name>
                  <name>Johnston, D</name>
                  <name>Joyce, B</name>
                  <name>Kroger, H (teller)</name>
                  <name>Macdonald, ID</name>
                  <name>Mason, B</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                  <name>Nash, F</name>
                  <name>Parry, S</name>
                  <name>Payne, MA</name>
                  <name>Ronaldson, M</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A</name>
                  <name>Ryan, SM</name>
                  <name>Sinodinos, A</name>
                  <name>Smith, D</name>
                  <name>Williams, JR</name>
                  <name>Xenophon, N</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>36</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Bilyk, CL</name>
                  <name>Bishop, TM</name>
                  <name>Cameron, DN</name>
                  <name>Carr, KJ</name>
                  <name>Carr, RJ</name>
                  <name>Collins, JMA</name>
                  <name>Di Natale, R</name>
                  <name>Faulkner, J</name>
                  <name>Feeney, D</name>
                  <name>Furner, ML</name>
                  <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                  <name>Hogg, JJ</name>
                  <name>Lines, S</name>
                  <name>Ludlam, S</name>
                  <name>Ludwig, JW</name>
                  <name>Lundy, KA</name>
                  <name>Madigan, JJ</name>
                  <name>Marshall, GM</name>
                  <name>McEwen, A (teller)</name>
                  <name>McLucas, J</name>
                  <name>Milne, C</name>
                  <name>Moore, CM</name>
                  <name>Polley, H</name>
                  <name>Pratt, LC</name>
                  <name>Rhiannon, L</name>
                  <name>Siewert, R</name>
                  <name>Singh, LM</name>
                  <name>Stephens, U</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G</name>
                  <name>Thistlethwaite, M</name>
                  <name>Thorp, LE</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, AE</name>
                  <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                  <name>Wright, PL</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>4</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Abetz, E</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D</name>
                  <name>Birmingham, SJ</name>
                  <name>Crossin, P</name>
                  <name>Brandis, GH</name>
                  <name>Wong, P</name>
                  <name>Scullion, NG</name>
                  <name>Conroy, S</name>
                </names>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:23</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator THORP</name>
    <name.id>183342</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>As an educationalist, I find it disturbing that this place is being used to consider quite a retrograde step in educational history. There is a movement in education that has been going on since the late eighties, with a move from prescriptive assessment to descriptive assessment, and from time based learning to competency based learning. It is recognising what learning is. It is recognising that individuals learn at different paces and in different methods to come to the same place, which is a level of competency in a particular area. Time based learning is going back to the past. Time based learning presumes that you have a group of students—whether they be young school students or people who are studying, in this case, to be engineers—who are all in the same room, at the same time, with the same teacher, and, at the end of that particular period of time, they are all qualified to do a particular task. That is not the way education works today. Education works today on the acquiring of skills. It does not matter whether it be about learning how to be a barista or how to be a neurosurgeon. I, for one, would prefer, if I were to be under the knife in a serious operation, to know that that particular individual had not just served time at university for a number of years but had reached the level of competency that they deserve. This is what this is all about.</para>
<para>Going along with the analogy of medical training, in a different job I worked for the medical school of Tasmania. My task was to review the curriculum of the six-year course for all students doing a Bachelor of Medicine and a Bachelor of Medical Science. What became very clear during that exercise was that so much of that training was time based and it needed to move. Over the years, more and more had been added to the curriculum, based simply on facts and figures, rote learning, if you like, and it needed in to be brought up to the end of the 20th century, as it was then—this was back in the 1990s. It was a culling of the unnecessary rote learning by medical students of thousands and thousands of unnecessary facts and a move to a teaching model that meant that those students were learning skills that would fit them to make decisions into the future.</para>
<para>Another thing that became disturbingly obvious during that time was that there can be a tendency amongst some professions—and the medical fraternity can be accused of this on occasion, and I strongly suspect that the group behind this particular legislation are of a similar mind—that a closed shop can suit some people. It can suit to have the group of people who have those skills kept quite small because then they can determine their price in the marketplace. It is a very retrograde step to introduce these kinds of out-of-date standards. It is contrary to modern training practices, and it is very inconsistent with global practices. It is contrary to moves that have been made to current Australian government policy reform directions, because the Australian government is committed to introducing competency based progression in Australian apprenticeships and traineeships. There is a global recognition in the educational fraternity that competency based learning is the way to go.</para>
<para>The same kinds of changes have been made in the areas of assessment. There was a time when assessment was purely and simply on a pass/fail. We do not do that anymore. We do not just pass/fail kids. We look at describing what they have achieved over a period of time and describing that achievement on their assessment. That assessment then stops being something that can cruel the life opportunities of a student and actually becomes a tool for teaching. It means that the teacher has a clear description of the abilities and competencies of their students. They can also clearly identify where those gaps are and teach specifically to them. Gone are the days where we simply say, 'For you to be in high school, you just go for six years, and we move you on to high school after you have done your time.' In Tasmania now, a much more modern method of teaching and assessment occurs, whereby students are assessed against the competencies they have achieved. So, within the same age group of students, you can have real recognition of the variety and richness of the achievement of students in those areas.</para>
<para>Those general points about competency based learning as opposed to time serving can be applied generally across all areas of education. But we are talking here, specifically, about how it applies in the area of marine education. Members here may not know that Tasmania is home to the Australian Maritime College. The Maritime College is based in Launceston, a city in the north of the state, and it was due to the efforts of a very well-respected Labor politician, Lance Barnard, that that particular institution came to Tasmania. It has served not just Tasmania but also the broader educational community well for many years now. In fact, it boasts some of the most modern teaching techniques in the world. It is a place that people spend a lot of time and effort trying to get into, such as people from India, from all over South-East Asia and from the United States. They go there because they know they are going to get the very, very best maritime education.</para>
<para>It is globally recognised as a centre of excellence, it has a multimillion-dollar suite of specialist teaching, learning and research facilities and, as I have said, it is internationally acclaimed. It is utilised by government bodies and maritime related businesses worldwide. What is really important is that the staff of the Australian Maritime College are very highly experienced, very highly respected and have very, very strong industry links. They know what they are doing at the Australian Maritime College, and they do not need a draconian piece of legislation to tell them how to teach. I think they would be aghast to know that the college is being hijacked for the quite narrow set of needs of one particular group in the community.</para>
<para>The AMC has two campuses. The main campus is in Newnham, which is a suburb of Launceston. I have had the privilege of visiting that institution on many occasions. If senators ever get the opportunity to visit the Australian Maritime College, I think they would be very impressed by the very high standard of education that that place provides. Amongst other things on the campus is an enormous pool area, which would be almost as tall as this chamber, and would have about the same floor area. The whole area can be darkened and then can be turned into a storm at sea. Waves can be whipped up; the sounds of the wind and the terror of being at sea can be conjured up in this setting. Lifeboats are then thrown in and man overboard procedures can be practised. It is quite phenomenal to see. The college does the most amazing research on wave generation with their equipment. I do not pretend to be technologically up with all of it but, believe me, it is extremely impressive.</para>
<para>They have some of the world's best and most innovative ship simulators available. One can virtually stand on the deck of a ship and have the complete experience of controlling that ship. There are a variety of vessel types and sizes to choose from. They can also simulate the entry into some of the world's biggest and most important ports. For instance, you could take a multithousand-tonne ship into a big harbour, like New York Harbor. It is an extraordinary experience. The college produces some of the best qualified people in a whole variety of maritime based industries, including maritime engineers.</para>
<para>The other campus is at Beauty Point, which is a few kilometres up the western side of the Tamar River. Once you have travelled through all the beautiful wine areas, you reach the lovely area of Beauty Point, and that is where the field based activities of the Australian Maritime College occur.</para>
<para>At the college, through these two campuses, students are provided with very flexible course options. I will stress the word 'flexible' as being not time based, or rigid, or old-fashioned learning, but flexible course options with opportunities for full-time, part-time and even online distance study. Study can be about captaining a vessel, safeguarding the marine environment, designing advanced ocean engineering structures, farming seafood or keeping the world's goods moving. These courses are all provided through the Australian Maritime College.</para>
<para>I am quite confident that, if we were able to have any of the staff of the Australian Maritime College here today, they would be aghast to think that people who know very, very little about the subject are actually dictating to the teachers, to the college, to the professionals, to the experts, what they should teach. Why for the life of me we would try to dictate teaching styles through a piece of legislation is beyond me. To think that at any one point in time you would dictate what the education of a particular profession should be I find quite astonishing, because education moves all the time. We have constant innovation, not only in the actual direction and delivery of education but also in the matter that needs to be covered. Teachers and the industry itself need to be the ones that determine what goes on. This is true of the Australian Maritime College as it delivers the maritime engineering courses.</para>
<para>The Australian Maritime College also introduces vocational certificates at many levels, bachelor degrees and diplomas, and postgraduate certificates and degrees, including doctorates. The college has an emphasis on small class sizes and very direct learning. Consequently, the graduates of the Australian Maritime College are sought after worldwide. There are alumni across 56 different countries. This is a centre of excellence that everyone here can be proud of.</para>
<para>We know that the sectors of offshore marine and maritime are exciting new frontiers, not just for Australia but for the whole world. We must not be using this place to try to compromise the adaptability and effectiveness of the regulatory regime for maritime safety as has been established by the Australian Maritime Safety Authority. The passage of this bill would mean that Australia would be inconsistent with the International Maritime Organization's training standards, to which we are a signatory. The most serious and immediate effect of the Marine Engineers Qualifications Bill 2013 without amendment is the potential impact on all existing qualification certificates. Due to the complex interaction with other legislation and the absence of transitional provisions, I am told that about 23,000 current qualifications would be rendered invalid. I am sure it is not the intention of my honourable colleagues opposite to render the marine industry qualifications of 23,000 people null and void. What do we have here to ensure that unqualified persons will be able to serve as seafarers? The bill does not set minimum standards and it does not prevent any reduction in those standards; it only enacts a time served approach to maritime engineering qualifications. It increases the amount of regulation on the industry, overrides the effect of three other Commonwealth acts passed unanimously by the parliament and serves to increase the costs for shipping in Australia. Why would anyone want to do this?</para>
<para>The core of it comes down to what we were talking about previously: a very small group—approximately 11 per cent of the maritime engineer industry—wanting to have a stranglehold on the people they think are fit to be part of their group. How many times have you heard conversations about how different royal colleges restrict numbers, whether it be in ophthalmology, obstetrics, gynaecology or general surgery? It makes it very difficult for people to enter and be one of their rank. They do it for a very clear reason, in my opinion, and that is to have a closed shop that they can manipulate for their own purposes. This is not supported by educationalists, it is not supported by the Australian Maritime Safety Authority and it is not supported by fair-minded people who recognise that educational practice has changed. It is draconian, backward and narrow.</para>
<para>Here we are on the second last day of the sitting of the Senate, with many important pieces of legislation we should be dealing with, and yet the valuable time of the Senate is being used in a cynical and manipulative way by members opposite. I can only say I am extremely disappointed that that is the case. We should not have to be doing this at this time. I understood that there were, in fact, other pieces of legislation to be discussed today. There has been a lot of fuss and noise in this place about guillotining debate and proper process not being followed, and yet when we do have a process agreed to, when we do have agreement amongst all people in this place that particular legislation will be debated, at the last minute a change is made, not because the legislation is considered to be extremely important, not because members opposite genuinely believe that the best interests of this country are going to be served by the passing of this legislation—no; it is cynical and, quite frankly, beneath the dignity of this place. I would not like to see this place being party to a turning back of the educational clock for any particular area, whether that is for apprentices, university graduates, teachers, doctors or anybody else. We have to move forward progressively in education in this country, not backwards. For that reason, I will not be supporting the legislation.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:42</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator STERLE</name>
    <name.id>e68</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I too wish to make my contribution to the Marine Engineers Qualifications Bill 2013. I would like to follow on from my colleague Senator Thorp's comments. I too looked at the <inline font-style="italic">Order of Business</inline> this morning and saw that there were a couple of bills mentioned for general business today—one about migration and one about Fair Work—which I think will attract a lot of conversation, and a lot of conversation should be had at this stage of the parliamentary cycle. We should be talking about the migration amendment and Fair Work, but I find that all of a sudden this bill has popped up out of nowhere. It has been in the other House. I believe it was introduced by the member for Denison, Mr Wilkie. I have no doubt that to Mr Wilkie it was a matter of extreme importance, and no-one would argue that, but there must be some cunning plan from those opposite that this was not on the agenda for today and somehow now it is. Mr Wilkie's motives are more than honourable, but unfortunately some unforeseen circumstances would come out of this bill, should this bill pass as it is, without amendment.</para>
<para>As with all bills, it is most important that we have a moment of thought about the history of one of Australia's greatest industries. I never played a direct role in shipping—I am proudly a boat owner, but that does not rate anywhere amongst Australia's maritime industry, seafarers and waterside workers. Of course, marine engineers play a very important role. I would like to think about this for a moment and share with the Senate some thoughts I have about just how important shipping is to this great nation. It is a no-brainer that we know we are an island and without shipping we would not be in the fantastic position we are in. Shipping not only imports numerous items that we take for granted, such as clothing, white goods and certain cars—although I wish more were made here in Australia, but unfortunately that is not the case—but also there are our exports.</para>
<para>We all know, particularly those of us who come from the great state of Western Australia, the importance of the mining industry to Australia's future and present and also to our productivity and our economy. But it does not matter how great our materials or commodities are or how good and efficient we are at getting them out of the ground and moving them to the ports if we do not have efficient ports. We are succeeding at that particularly under this government and under the guidance of the Minister for Infrastructure and Transport, Anthony Albanese. He honestly and truly gets the importance of efficient ports. We have to get the materials onto the ships to disperse them around the world. It does not take a lot to work out that, without shipping, we certainly would be in the dark ages.</para>
<para>We have to have a safe and sustainable shipping industry. Unfortunately, shipping has attracted a lot of attention for the wrong reasons over the years. Over the years we have heard about the well-known shame and scam of flags of convenience. There is absolutely no argument that a lot of places in the world do not have a seafaring industry as respectable and reputable as Australia's. The consequences that this bill without amendment could have for our shipping industry could be devastating. They could be devastating not only to lives but to our environment. Particularly those of us who are on the Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport References Committee, which I proudly chair, know that there are numerous examples around this country of what happens when our shipping industry is somehow not as safe as it could be. For a lot of people the first thought that comes to their mind, after loss of life, is the environmental damage along the Great Barrier Reef. It would be absolutely frightening to think what could happen if we were to see any more major catastrophes in shipping.</para>
<para>I want to talk about something close to my heart. For those of you who do not know, Carnarvon is a wonderful diverse little town some 970 kilometres north of Perth. I would give you the exact kilometres but I cannot remember through the haze of looking at the speedo every week on my way to Carnarvon, through Carnarvon and past Carnarvon coming back from Darwin. But, trust me, it is around 970 kilometres. Just north of Carnarvon there is a small operation, Lake MacLeod. It is a salt mine. Fortunately it is still a viable salt mine. It has been a salt mine for a number of years. I would not want to guess how long, but it has been well over 25 years. They export salt to all ports around the world. We had a seafaring accident north of Carnarvon and Lake MacLeod. This was only in the early 1990s. It was not carrying salt, but a ship ran up on the rocks and the massive oil spill that followed actually woke a lot of us up to the devastating effects on our environment. When these massive ships hit rock and run aground it is quite frightening.</para>
<para>But, sadly, we are still seeing maritime disasters, with none more vivid in our minds or our children's minds than that of the cruise liner just off Italy recently. I know that disaster was not created by a drop in the standards of maritime engineers, but the truth of the matter is that one simple mistake in shipping can have a disastrous outcome for the environment and life.</para>
<para>I am sure Mr Wilkie's thoughts on this are pure. There is no doubt about that. But we must amend the bill. We must amend the bill to deliver on its intent—and that is to protect the integrity of our marine engineers and their qualifications. As Senator Thorp touched on, some 23,000 qualifications could be made null and void—if that is the correct terminology—if this bill were to pass without amendment.</para>
<para>Let us look further back into our proud maritime history. Let us not forget that our history is closely related to the global story of people crossing oceans. The first people to engineer ocean-going vessels capable of travelling thousands of kilometres were Pacific Island mariners. They were the first truly maritime people. Like the Torres Strait Islanders, the Pacific mariners used double outrigger canoes and a sail to cross oceans with strong currents. Several thousand years later, the Portuguese, the Dutch, the Spanish and other westerners from England and Europe made similar journeys around the globe to the southern hemisphere. From 1600 onwards—and possibly earlier—Aborigines and Torres Strait Islanders traded with fishermen from Makassar, Indonesia, who harvested trepang from Australia's northern coastlines, selling them to the Chinese.</para>
<para>I remember not all that long ago, around 2005 or 2006, the Indonesians were still harvesting trepang, but they were harvesting them in Australian waters. If I remember rightly, I was sitting on that side of the chamber and the minister at the time was none other than Senator Ian Macdonald from Queensland. It created enormous dramas. It created massive dramas, particularly in Western Australia. Those poor fishermen were trying to survive, but they were harvesting trepang in our waters. Anyway, to cut a long story short, some changes were made to Australia's offshore rules. We had more planes out there. Then Senator Macdonald was relegated to the backbench. I just want to remind the Senate that the harvesting of trepang by Indonesian fishermen is still recent in our history.</para>
<para>Until 1950 Australia's history with trade, colonisation and settlement was dependent upon maritime sailing voyages. We all know that there is an abundance of diversity in Australia's maritime history. There were the early Dutch mariners, such as Dirk Hartog. We know what happened to poor Dirk off the coast of Western Australia, but there is an island that still bears his name. It is a wonderful island. Of course, there was Abel Tasman and the English navigators, like James Cook and Matthew Flinders, mapping the Australian coastline through to the commercial sealers, whalers and pearlers. And there were explorers like Douglas Mawson. So it is imperative for Australia to never forget the importance of the maritime industry to our trade. We need to have a safe and sustainable maritime industry.</para>
<para>One proud thing that Labor governments have hung their hat on for years and will always hang their hat on is that they are about improving standards in the workforce. We are a party that are proud of the fact that, for the 100-odd years that we have been around, we have stood for the virtues of training and qualifications that provide safe and healthy work areas so that members of the workforce can bid their family farewell in the morning and go to work knowing darn well that they will be back that evening because of the fantastic effort put into occupational health and safety. Occupational health and safety standards are not limited just to the shop floor or to a vehicle; they apply to our ships.</para>
<para>I would like to take the opportunity to remind those who may be listening that the opposition earlier tried to bring this debate to an end so we could not talk about this, but I am proud that I have got my opportunity. Going back to the nineties, and a previous life, I remember that one of the hats I wore was that of chairman of the road division of the Western Australian transport training council and the transport industry training council. I was also on the board. It was made up of employers in the road transport industry; representation from the unions, which was me; and of course educators. Those industry training councils and industry training boards were there so that both arms of the industrial sphere—employers and employees—could work together to deliver training outcomes that would deliver qualifications and trained personnel in the areas of road transport, warehousing and the like. I may be digressing a little bit, Madam Acting Deputy President Stephens; would you please bear with me? We were an integral part of the maritime industry because we wanted safe warehouses and safe transport workers—safe forkies and truckies who got the freight to and from the wharf.</para>
<para>In 1999 or 2000 the then Prime Minister, John Howard—before he got full control of the Senate—could not wait. He had spent years deviously conniving on delivering shortcuts to his mates in big business—shortcuts around training, which was seen as a cost, not as an investment. As a father, I stand here proudly saying that I will always want my kids, your kids—all our kids into the future—to be trained. I want them to know that they can successfully use the machinery that they are in charge of or the machinery that is around them so that they have every opportunity to come home with all fingers and toes still in place. But it was John Howard who delivered on some slimy promise made in the backrooms or the boardrooms to his mates in big business. He said that, if any industry training council or industry training board had the audacity to have union representation on their committee or their board, he and his mates on that side of the chamber—a lot of them who are here now were not here then, but there are still quite a few—would deliver the hammer down on the top of those industry training councils and industry training boards. Their funding would then be ceased unless they removed the union representation. And here we go again.</para>
<para>Whenever there is a blue or an argument about decency and safety in workplaces, it is the workers who work with their employers. I will talk about the employers. The majority of employers are decent hardworking human beings who have taken a big punt in life. Whether they are employers in shipping or delicatessens or wherever they may be, part of employers' working family—it is not only the family structure at home—is their employees. I proudly say that the majority of employers that I have met would be welcome in my home.</para>
<para>It is an insult to working men and women, whether they be the business owner, the production manager, the operations manager, the supervisors or the boys and girls out on the floor or wherever, to think that they are not grown up enough to want to work together to have the safest work environment. Their employer, who had the intestinal fortitude years and years earlier to put everything they owned on the line—let us face it, most employers are not born with the gift of being given a fantastic enterprise—has gone out and done the hard yards. They have taken the big chance. They have put the family home on the line. They are the ones who have had the entrepreneurship to want to do better. They are also fantastic people who treat their workers as part of the family. But that Prime Minister thought it was just fantastic to insult these businesspeople, these business leaders, and union representatives, who were working together to do everything they could to have the safest working environment, by removing funding from the boards unless the union people were removed.</para>
<para>When I was with the industry training council in Western Australia it was headed by a wonderful woman named Debra Goostrey. I see Debra once a year now. Debra is with the Urban Development Institute of Australia. Good luck to them, because they have snaffled a fantastic person. Debra stood on her digs and said very clearly to me and to the employer representation from—what were they called then? They are now the Western Australian Road Transport Association; they had another name, which escapes me at the moment—Transport Forum WA. She said that they would not, and she would not, entertain the thought of losing her chair, which was me, on the road freight division, because of the insult. She would rather cop the loss in funding and she would go out of her way to find funding elsewhere. I can happily say that I was ably supported and abetted by the transport employer body, because they thought it was an absolute insult, a disgraceful episode. Fortunately, that part has been corrected. That ship that was on its side has been righted. We as a nation are now grown up enough—I hope we are grown up enough—to say that if we are going to fix it we are going to fix it together.</para>
<para>So, on that, when it comes to this bill, as I say: Mr Wilkie, it is good of heart—but it cannot go through without amendments. We have to do everything we can to ensure that Australia's maritime industry keeps its absolutely brilliant, high-quality record. We have to work with the union that represents the maritime engineers, and we have to put a few amendments through so that we do not have the unforeseen circumstances that this bill will deliver.</para>
<para>It would be a retrograde step for Australia to introduce outdated standards contrary to modern training practices and inconsistent with global standards. Time-served progression is contrary to current Australian government policy reform directions. The Australian government has committed to introducing competency based progression in Australian apprenticeships and traineeships—something that we hold to very proudly—and there is no embarrassment for me to say, as a Labor senator: the sooner we pump out more Australian trainees and Australian apprentices the better. As a nation we have found, over the years, that sometimes, sadly, it has been easier for employers to go overseas to seek to fill certain job descriptions. I have absolutely no dramas with a Western Australian senator saying that this nation was built on migration and that, sadly, we lack some of the skills we need. But I go one step further. We lack those skills because of the likes of John Howard's attitude to training and, unfortunately, some of those in industries in Australia who think that it is just so much easier to go overseas, rather than to create a training scheme and think: 'In four or five years time, I want Australian kids in those jobs; I want Australian trainees; I want Australian apprentices. I want to give Australian kids every opportunity to seek employment in their land.' And then there is no embarrassment in topping up with foreign workers.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:02</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WRIGHT</name>
    <name.id>200287</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak on the Marine Engineers Qualifications Bill 2013. The Australian Greens are pleased that this bill is before the Senate today. This is a bill which we supported in the House of Representatives, where it was introduced as a private member's bill, debated and recommended for a vote. Unfortunately, even though there is only one sitting day left in the House, the government has not brought the bill on for a vote there, even though the list of speakers was exhausted and, indeed, the House's selection committee recommended this bill for a vote back on 5 June. We look forward to this fully-debated bill going to a vote here in the Senate today.</para>
<para>Before I come to the particular provisions of this bill, I would just like to take this opportunity to reflect, at nearly the end of the 43rd Parliament, that there have been some excellent outcomes from this minority parliament and that those outcomes have been very good for the people of Australia. I think that, among all the recent media activity and debate, it has sometimes been easy to lose sight of that. Because of this minority parliament, we have seen $13 billion put into clean and renewable energy, which is an extremely important step for Australia in this very challenging 21st century. We have also seen that the tax-free threshold will be lifted to $18,200 for many, many people from the start of next year. I am also proud to say that the Greens have been able to negotiate that, from 1 January 2014, parents will be able to take their kids to the dentist and use their Medicare card to get free dental treatment. Just yesterday, through the hard work of the minority parliament, we saw the Gonski school funding reforms pass this Senate, providing the framework for needs-based funding of schools in Australia—a long-overdue and transformative change to the schools funding system in Australia of which I think all those involved can be justly proud. We have also seen a lifting in the standard of protection offered to firefighters around this country. Because of the minority parliament and the Greens' bill in the House of Representatives, we have been able to increase the protections for and compensation available to those firefighters. And now we have the opportunity to do more for the Australian community and lock in some further protections for people right across this country.</para>
<para>The Greens have been approached by members of the Maritime Union of Australia who have said that their long-running campaign for a national stevedoring code of practice, to ensure safety on the docks, was threatened to be stymied at the last minute and now may not happen at all as a result of the intervention of some large employers. One thing that we, here, could do right now is to enshrine the standards for our marine engineers.</para>
<para>First of all, I would just like to indicate what the basis of this bill is. This is a bill designed to prevent a reduction in marine engineering training and certification standards in Australia. This bill will do this by requiring that any marine regulations, such as marine orders, must be amended by the issuing authority so as to comply with and give effect to the existing Australian standards for engineering training and certification. This bill also implements the engineering improvements which were agreed to on 22 October 2009 between the Australian Maritime Safety Authority, the AMSA, and the Australian Institute of Marine and Power Engineers, the AIMPE, and which include, among other things, the establishment of separate regulatory requirements and ratings to assist with regulatory certainty.</para>
<para>Importantly, with the passage of the Navigation Act 2012, existing Australian standards will no longer apply to a vessel in Australia's merchant trading fleet if the vessel does not trade internationally. However, only seven of the approximately 20 merchant ships left in the Australian fleet actually trade internationally, so the Navigation Act 2012 does not apply to the remainder of the Australian trading fleet. The Navigation Act 2012 also does not apply to the more than 150 commercial vessels which are currently engaged in the Australian oil and gas industry or to other relevant operations. So there is a problem.</para>
<para>The Marine Safety (Domestic Commercial Vessel) National Law Act 2012, which I will refer to as the national law, has given rise to lower training and certification standards than those required by the Navigation Act. The national law sets lower standards. It counts only half the defined propulsion power in certifying the level of training and certification required for a given vessel. It no longer triggers Navigation Act standards when a vessel exits state waters. It does not mandate the three-year training requirement for a marine engineer watch-keeper. It does not mandate the AMSA oral examinations. It does not ensure that the AMSA directly audits college course providers. It does not maintain the academic entry standards for engineer cadets.</para>
<para>To ensure this reduction in training and certification requirements does not progress, the bill we are debating today proposes that, in addition to the seven vessels covered by the Navigation Act 2012, where a commercial vessel is either 500 or more gross registered tonnes or has propulsion power of 3,000 kilowatts or more the engineer on the vessel shall also be required to meet the marine engineer training and certification standards set out in this bill.</para>
<para>It is reassuring to know that this bill has been scrutinised, as is the requirement for all proposed legislation and regulations, by the Parliamentary Joint Committee on Human Rights, of which I am a proud member. The committee and the statement of compatibility in relation to the bill noted that the bill engages with some important human rights. The bill engages with and recognises the right to enjoyment of just and favourable conditions of work, as described in article 7 of the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights. Article 7(b) makes particular mention of safe and healthy working conditions. This bill helps to ensure that all persons have the right to safe and healthy conditions at work by ensuring a minimum competency standard. Maritime working environments have the potential, of course, to be hazardous, and the competency of maritime workers can directly affect the health and safety of others. The bill was found to be compatible with human rights.</para>
<para>We have a good shipping industry in this country. It faces its challenges, as do shipping industries around the world. In Australia that is in part because successive governments have not understood the importance to our trade and to our defence, let alone our economy, of having a good Australian owned shipping industry. We have a safe shipping industry. It is safe for the people who work on the ships. It is safe for the people who are out at sea. And it has to be, and generally is, safe for our environment.</para>
<para>One of the reasons for that safety is the high standards and level of qualifications and professionalism of our marine and power engineers. We have a good track record. Unfortunately our good safety regime and track record has to be defended against attacks and undermining. We have seen some of those attacks in recent years with the attempt to reduce the minimum time of study required to become an engineer from three years to one year. We have been able to stop that. One thing that is worth noting, though, is that the attempt to reduce the time from three years to one year was, in essence, reneging on an agreement that had been reached with the Australian Institute of Marine and Power Engineers.</para>
<para>The Greens have had the privilege of working closely with a range of workers and their unions, as well as with a range of organisations that might be described as craft unions. These are often smaller unions, organisations and professional institutes. They are often non-political and non-partisan in the sense that they do not necessarily hitch their wagon to a particular star but are prepared to work with those who will understand, listen to and advance their interests. When an organisation comes knocking on your door and says, 'There is a real concern about safety and we need you to stand up in parliament and fix it,' the Australian Greens are very happy to work with them. It is a fundamental responsibility of all of us in the parliament to be looking at what needs to occur in the national interest and to give a voice to those interests in the Australian community who look to us for leadership and look to us to rectify threats to safety.</para>
<para>There is a continuing move to erode protections and minimum standards, and we must always be vigilant in Australia. This is not about enshrining a closed shop. If anyone who is a member of another union, or not, wants to come in and work as an engineer they should be able to. But that should not come at the expense of reducing minimum standards, which are important for health, safety and the environment. The minimum standards should be the minimum standards, and whoever meets them can then go and get a job.</para>
<para>There are a number of things we are still waiting for from the government, but this legislation is something that we can implement right now. On behalf of the Australian Greens I commend this bill to the Senate and congratulate all members of the AIMPE on their advocacy.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:14</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SCULLION</name>
    <name.id>00AOM</name.id>
    <electorate>Northern Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the question be now put.</para></quote>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the motion be put.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [11:18]<br />(The Acting Deputy President—Senator Cameron)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>39</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Abetz, E</name>
                  <name>Back, CJ</name>
                  <name>Birmingham, SJ</name>
                  <name>Boswell, RLD</name>
                  <name>Bushby, DC (teller)</name>
                  <name>Cash, MC</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                  <name>Cormann, M</name>
                  <name>Di Natale, R</name>
                  <name>Edwards, S</name>
                  <name>Eggleston, A</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, DJ</name>
                  <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                  <name>Fifield, MP</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                  <name>Heffernan, W</name>
                  <name>Humphries, G</name>
                  <name>Johnston, D</name>
                  <name>Joyce, B</name>
                  <name>Kroger, H</name>
                  <name>Ludlam, S</name>
                  <name>Macdonald, ID</name>
                  <name>Mason, B</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                  <name>Milne, C</name>
                  <name>Nash, F</name>
                  <name>Parry, S</name>
                  <name>Payne, MA</name>
                  <name>Rhiannon, L</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A</name>
                  <name>Ryan, SM</name>
                  <name>Scullion, NG</name>
                  <name>Siewert, R</name>
                  <name>Sinodinos, A</name>
                  <name>Smith, D</name>
                  <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                  <name>Williams, JR</name>
                  <name>Wright, PL</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>26</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Bilyk, CL</name>
                  <name>Bishop, TM</name>
                  <name>Brown, CL</name>
                  <name>Cameron, DN</name>
                  <name>Carr, KJ</name>
                  <name>Carr, RJ</name>
                  <name>Collins, JMA</name>
                  <name>Crossin, P</name>
                  <name>Faulkner, J</name>
                  <name>Feeney, D</name>
                  <name>Furner, ML</name>
                  <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                  <name>Lines, S</name>
                  <name>Ludwig, JW</name>
                  <name>Lundy, KA</name>
                  <name>McEwen, A</name>
                  <name>McLucas, J</name>
                  <name>Moore, CM</name>
                  <name>Polley, H (teller)</name>
                  <name>Pratt, LC</name>
                  <name>Singh, LM</name>
                  <name>Stephens, U</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G</name>
                  <name>Thistlethwaite, M</name>
                  <name>Thorp, LE</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, AE</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names></names>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:21</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The question now is that this bill be read a second time.</para>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [11:23]<br />(The Acting Deputy President—Senator Cameron)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>39</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Abetz, E</name>
                  <name>Back, CJ</name>
                  <name>Birmingham, SJ</name>
                  <name>Boswell, RLD</name>
                  <name>Bushby, DC (teller)</name>
                  <name>Cash, MC</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                  <name>Cormann, M</name>
                  <name>Di Natale, R</name>
                  <name>Edwards, S</name>
                  <name>Eggleston, A</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, DJ</name>
                  <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                  <name>Fifield, MP</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                  <name>Heffernan, W</name>
                  <name>Humphries, G</name>
                  <name>Johnston, D</name>
                  <name>Joyce, B</name>
                  <name>Kroger, H</name>
                  <name>Ludlam, S</name>
                  <name>Macdonald, ID</name>
                  <name>Mason, B</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                  <name>Milne, C</name>
                  <name>Nash, F</name>
                  <name>Parry, S</name>
                  <name>Payne, MA</name>
                  <name>Rhiannon, L</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A</name>
                  <name>Ryan, SM</name>
                  <name>Scullion, NG</name>
                  <name>Siewert, R</name>
                  <name>Sinodinos, A</name>
                  <name>Smith, D</name>
                  <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                  <name>Williams, JR</name>
                  <name>Wright, PL</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>27</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Bilyk, CL</name>
                  <name>Bishop, TM</name>
                  <name>Brown, CL</name>
                  <name>Cameron, DN</name>
                  <name>Carr, KJ</name>
                  <name>Carr, RJ</name>
                  <name>Collins, JMA</name>
                  <name>Crossin, P</name>
                  <name>Faulkner, J</name>
                  <name>Feeney, D</name>
                  <name>Furner, ML</name>
                  <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                  <name>Lines, S</name>
                  <name>Ludwig, JW</name>
                  <name>Lundy, KA</name>
                  <name>Marshall, GM</name>
                  <name>McEwen, A</name>
                  <name>McLucas, J</name>
                  <name>Moore, CM</name>
                  <name>Polley, H (teller)</name>
                  <name>Pratt, LC</name>
                  <name>Singh, LM</name>
                  <name>Stephens, U</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G</name>
                  <name>Thistlethwaite, M</name>
                  <name>Thorp, LE</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, AE</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names></names>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to.<br />Bill read a second time.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division></subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Third Reading</title>
            <page.no>4231</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:25</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>As no amendments to the bill have been circulated I shall call Senator Williams to move the third reading unless a senator requires that the bill be considered in the Committee of the whole.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:26</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WILLIAMS</name>
    <name.id>I0V</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill be now read a third time.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a third time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Migration Amendment (Reinstatement of Temporary Protection Visas) Bill 2013 [No. 2]</title>
          <page.no>4231</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" style="" background="" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint">
            <a type="Bill" href="s911">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Migration Amendment (Reinstatement of Temporary Protection Visas) Bill 2013 [No. 2]</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>4231</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:26</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CASH</name>
    <name.id>I0M</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>This private senator's bill is the first test for the newly installed former Prime Minister, Mr Rudd, who is now, yet again, the Prime Minister of Australia. This is a test for the Prime Minister. Only yesterday he said to the people of Australia that Labor can start cooking with gas.</para>
<para>I say to those on the other side that this is a bill which will enable you to do just that. The substance of the bill is self-explanatory. It has been the coalition's longstanding position, since August 2008, when Mr Rudd, as the former Prime Minister, gave an instruction to former immigration minister Chris Evans to roll back the former Howard government's proven border protection policies.</para>
<para>Australia now knows what the result of that disastrous decision was. It has meant that in excess of 45,000 people have come here illegally by boat at a cost in excess of $10 billion. One of the fundamental planks of the former Howard government's policy was temporary protection visas. You will only stop the boats if you re-install temporary protection visas, and that is exactly what this bill does.</para>
<para>If those on the other side as of last night's execution are serious about a change of policy in this country, then they should stand beside the coalition today and put back in place what they stole from the people of Australia—our proven temporary protection visas. I commend this bill to the Senate.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:28</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator STEPHENS</name>
    <name.id>00AOS</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak against the Migration Amendment (Reinstatement of Temporary Protection Visas) Bill 2013, which has been introduced here this morning as a political stunt, and nothing more. It is a political stunt because, as we face an election in the not too distant future, it is about making sure that we play politics with the humanity of people who are seeking protection.</para>
<para>This is an extraordinary bill—hugely problematic, I have to say—and one that certainly this side of the parliament does not support in any shape or form. Let me explain a little about why. The bill seeks to introduce temporary protection visa, TPV, classes and will include two different types of TPV. The argument is that the TPV would provide what is called safe haven and protection to illegal arrivals in Australia or an excised offshore place who do not have protection from another country or are found to engage Australia's protection obligations and meet health and character concerns.</para>
<para>All of that sounds perfectly fine and reasonable. However, we have known for a very long time that temporary protection visas do not work. Temporary protection visas were eliminated from our migration and refugee system with the incoming Rudd government and the cruelty that is associated with a TPV system is something that has been proven to result in catastrophic mental health consequences and attempts by some to take their own lives—and in fact people have taken their lives because of what temporary protection visas do.</para>
<para>This is what they do: first of all, a temporary protection visa—under this new regime being proposed by the opposition—would be granted for three years. There is no access to family reunion and no right of re-entry, but there are mutual obligation requirements. The lack of uncertainty in somebody's life due to being in the never-never for three years is something that has caused TPVs to have been discredited in the past and for the future. People like Paris Aristotle on the Houston review—the expert panel—have been incredibly vocal about the crisis that temporary protection visas generate. He has been a passionate advocate against temporary protection visas and he applauded the elimination of temporary protection visas when that occurred under the Labor government in 2008.</para>
<para>This bill, which has been proposed by the shadow minister for immigration, Mr Morrison, would reinstate temporary protection visas. At the time of their introduction, temporary protection visas did not exist anywhere else in the world and they were subject to widespread criticism. This is because they are inherently unfair and absolutely perceived to be oppressive. They suggest that there is never going to be certainty. That is the cruellest part of a temporary protection visa regime. Let us remind ourselves that the 11,200 TPVs that were granted between 1999 and 2001 were granted to people who were not boat people. That is what is important about this. Only a few were granted to irregular maritime arrivals. TPVs have been proven time and time again not to stop the boats. They are not the disincentive that the opposition would like us to believe. There is no sense that TPVs will be a deterrent to people coming to Australia. The deterrent was a spectacular failure then and it would be a spectacular failure in any new regime.</para>
<para>What will work, as we know, is the proposition that is being put by the government and blocked by the opposition, which is flying people back and providing a transitory space in Indonesia or Malaysia. That is the part of the Malaysian solution that is being developed through the Bali process. It is part of a regional people-smuggling solution and strategy that is being propagated around our region but is not being supported by the coalition.</para>
<para>This bill is a political stunt to raise this issue as part of the upcoming election campaign. What is really in play here? TPVs, as I said, did not work then and will not work know. Some people would like to compare TPVs with the no advantage bridging visas that are currently operating. Yes, there are some similarities. But there are many, many differences. You cannot compare them and suggest that they are the same thing. Bridging visas are restrictive, as recommended by the expert panel—one of the recommendations that we have been able to implement. They implement the no advantage principle for those boat arrivals who are processed in Australia. Bridging visas are about ensuring that people who arrive in Australia by boat do not achieve an advantage in terms of receiving a permanent visa over those who are awaiting resettlement in our region.</para>
<para>People who have their claims processed in Australia and are found to be refugees will remain on bridging visas until they are issued a protection visa in accord with the no advantage principle. This could take a long period of time. But, prior to their release from detention, people granted bridging visas, even though subject to the no advantage principle, undergo needs assessment to determine the level of support that they will be provided in the community. Then people will be provided, under the Asylum Seeker Assistance Scheme and, if necessary, the Community Assistance Scheme, the support that they need. These bridging visas will ensure that people are eligible for up to six weeks of funded accommodation assistance, help with basic living expenses, special benefits, rent assistance, access to basic health care, specialised mental health care, torture and trauma counselling, ongoing and intensive case work, assistance with healthcare appointments, financial assistance for general emergency health care and pharmaceuticals, referrals to counselling, and material aid such as clothing and furniture, education and social activities—significant support within the community for those who have been assessed as being genuine refugees.</para>
<para>Under TPVs, people live with the uncertainty of having to have their claims reassessed every three years. That is the crux of the matter. A TPV provides no certainty. A TPV will actually perpetuate the situation under the Howard government—that the majority of people would never be eligible for a permanent protection visa. Unlike TPV holders, a person on a bridging visa who is found to be a refugee and who satisfies other criteria will, at the end of the no-advantage period, end up with a permanent visa. That is a very significant difference. It should also be remembered that under the TPV system there was no additional support to provide an alternative to coming to Australia by boat.</para>
<para>What we have done as a government is attempt to be firm but fair. We have attempted to do that by increasing the humanitarian program by 45 per cent to 20,000 places and creating thousands of additional opportunities for genuine refugees to be resettled without actually having to risk their lives on a dangerous boat journey. And that really is the crux of the matter. We had this debate last week. We had this debate on World Refugee Day, when we were actually talking about the humanitarian crisis that exists in the world and the way in which Australians as international citizens have to be a part of an international solution to the humanitarian crises that are happening. TPVs coming in out of context, in a peculiarly disruptive way, are not going to do that. We have moved on from that kind of regime. We have made significant improvements in the way we work with refugees and asylum seekers in Australia, and this would be one mighty backwards step—and certainly one mighty backwards step that this Labor government is not going to consider in any shape or form.</para>
<para>The abolition of the TPV system was a huge step forward to improving the rights of asylum seekers in Australia, and it is a visa system that should stay exactly where it is, right now. There are those who would be advocating for TPVs as a way to prevent the crises that are occurring. It is a disingenuous argument, I think, and it is not one that is supported by any of the advocacy agencies in Australia—not one. The St Vincent de Paul Society, for example, has said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">We will not be silent. It is not OK to play politics with the lives of people fleeing persecution and tragedy.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We are a nation that has moved forward in regard to our treatment of asylum seekers. We need to move further forward in the interests of compassion and justice. The reintroduction of TPVs would be a massive step backwards.</para></quote>
<para>And that is absolutely right. Those are the words of national council chief executive Dr John Falzon, a passionate advocate for asylum seekers and refugees.</para>
<para>But, as I said, what we have here today is a failed policy recycled for political benefit—nothing more, nothing less. And it is really inexplicable why a TPV system would ever be adopted, because it has been shown unequivocally to be a complete failure. There is absolutely no evidence that TPVs have ever prevented people getting on a boat. Boat arrivals increased dramatically after the scheme was introduced in 1999. And what happened? Of course there was a dramatic increase in women and children, because the only way people would see their families again was if women and children were put on these boats. If you were a man—a father or a son—and you had managed to get to Australia and you were on a TPV, you had to think of the conditions of being on a TPV. If you leave the country for any reason, you cannot get back, which is just a tragedy. It means people are separated for the rest of their lives. So there is no right to family reunion or a return to Australia. It does not give the holder the right to re-enter Australia if they depart, and it is a condition of the visa that the holder must satisfy mutual obligation requirements for receiving special payments benefits. And of course the devil is always in the detail. What does 'mutual obligation requirements' mean? Does it mean that someone who is on a TPV might have to go and live in Northern Australia or western New South Wales? What does the opposition imagine might be mutual obligation requirements?</para>
<para>The other important thing I think we need to remember is that refugee advocates have pointed to the evidence of the extraordinary psychological harm to holders of TPVs. Isn't the notion that a TPV regime might encourage families of TPV holders to attempt to reach Australia by boat—because there is no other legal way to see their family again, unless they are granted a permanent protection visa—the counter-argument? Isn't that actually going to encourage people to get on to boats—particularly, as we have said, women and children? This is the regime that is going to have us seeing another SIEV X catastrophe. And it is why, in these circumstances, we will not ever consider the notion of a TPV regime again.</para>
<para>There is no logic in what is being proposed here. There is no evidence that it will achieve what it is purported to achieve and support. It is a visa that should be buried in the past, where it belongs. It is nothing more than a political stunt. It is nothing that is going to give any kind of certainty to those who are here as refugees waiting for their claims to be assessed and waiting for assistance to be provided to them.</para>
<para>As a nation we have a responsibility and a commitment to the Bali process. We have been engaged in an international debate, a strategy and a conversation that was rolled out in the 22 recommendations of the Houston report. It requires us to see all this through for the long haul and to understand that piecemeal efforts like adopting TPVs without a commitment to the other things that are part of the recommendations of the Houston report will not make the difference.</para>
<para>This is a political stunt. Senator Cash is trying to re-invigorate a failed policy for the simple political benefits of trading on human misery as part of the opposition's election campaign. It has never actually been explained why refugees who can arrive by plane here in Australia and later claim asylum are treated differently than those who arrive by boat. That is the truth. The truth of this is that, if you are an unfortunate refugee who has taken the most desperate step of boarding a leaky boat and trying to get to Australia, under the regime proposed by the opposition you will be shovelled into a system that has been proved to be detrimental to people's health. It is absolutely frustrating that it breaches international conventions and will do nothing more than up the ante for very desperate people.</para>
<para>Let us see what we can do to ensure that the recommendations of the Houston report are implemented. I call on the other side to come on board and assist in negotiating the Malaysian agreement and supporting that regional processing solution and the transit arrangements that are part of the recommendations of the Houston report—that thoughtful expert panel that consulted widely and was supported by advocates, by policymakers, by international lawyers and by the UNHCR. These are the people who have given us the best chance of breaking this impasse. TPVs are not part of that solution.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:48</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ABETZ</name>
    <name.id>N26</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the question be now put.</para></quote>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>7L6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the motion now be put.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [11:52]<br />(The President—Senator Hogg)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>40</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Abetz, E</name>
                  <name>Back, CJ</name>
                  <name>Bernardi, C</name>
                  <name>Birmingham, SJ</name>
                  <name>Boswell, RLD</name>
                  <name>Boyce, SK</name>
                  <name>Brandis, GH</name>
                  <name>Bushby, DC</name>
                  <name>Cash, MC</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                  <name>Cormann, M</name>
                  <name>Di Natale, R</name>
                  <name>Edwards, S</name>
                  <name>Eggleston, A</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, DJ</name>
                  <name>Fifield, MP</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                  <name>Heffernan, W</name>
                  <name>Humphries, G</name>
                  <name>Joyce, B</name>
                  <name>Kroger, H (teller)</name>
                  <name>Ludlam, S</name>
                  <name>Macdonald, ID</name>
                  <name>Mason, B</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                  <name>Milne, C</name>
                  <name>Parry, S</name>
                  <name>Payne, MA</name>
                  <name>Rhiannon, L</name>
                  <name>Ronaldson, M</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A</name>
                  <name>Ryan, SM</name>
                  <name>Scullion, NG</name>
                  <name>Siewert, R</name>
                  <name>Sinodinos, A</name>
                  <name>Smith, D</name>
                  <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                  <name>Wright, PL</name>
                  <name>Xenophon, N</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>28</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Bilyk, CL</name>
                  <name>Bishop, TM</name>
                  <name>Brown, CL</name>
                  <name>Carr, KJ</name>
                  <name>Collins, JMA</name>
                  <name>Crossin, P</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D</name>
                  <name>Faulkner, J</name>
                  <name>Feeney, D</name>
                  <name>Furner, ML</name>
                  <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                  <name>Hogg, JJ</name>
                  <name>Lines, S</name>
                  <name>Ludwig, JW</name>
                  <name>Lundy, KA</name>
                  <name>Madigan, JJ</name>
                  <name>Marshall, GM</name>
                  <name>McEwen, A (teller)</name>
                  <name>McLucas, J</name>
                  <name>Moore, CM</name>
                  <name>Polley, H</name>
                  <name>Pratt, LC</name>
                  <name>Singh, LM</name>
                  <name>Stephens, U</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G</name>
                  <name>Thistlethwaite, M</name>
                  <name>Thorp, LE</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, AE</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names></names>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:59</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>7L6</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The question now is that the bill be read a second time.</para>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [11:59]<br />(The President—Senator Hogg)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>30</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Abetz, E</name>
                  <name>Back, CJ</name>
                  <name>Bernardi, C</name>
                  <name>Birmingham, SJ</name>
                  <name>Boswell, RLD</name>
                  <name>Boyce, SK</name>
                  <name>Brandis, GH</name>
                  <name>Bushby, DC</name>
                  <name>Cash, MC</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                  <name>Cormann, M</name>
                  <name>Edwards, S</name>
                  <name>Eggleston, A</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, DJ</name>
                  <name>Fifield, MP</name>
                  <name>Heffernan, W</name>
                  <name>Humphries, G</name>
                  <name>Joyce, B</name>
                  <name>Kroger, H (teller)</name>
                  <name>Macdonald, ID</name>
                  <name>Mason, B</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                  <name>Parry, S</name>
                  <name>Payne, MA</name>
                  <name>Ronaldson, M</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A</name>
                  <name>Ryan, SM</name>
                  <name>Scullion, NG</name>
                  <name>Sinodinos, A</name>
                  <name>Smith, D</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>38</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Bilyk, CL</name>
                  <name>Bishop, TM</name>
                  <name>Brown, CL</name>
                  <name>Carr, KJ</name>
                  <name>Collins, JMA</name>
                  <name>Crossin, P</name>
                  <name>Di Natale, R</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D</name>
                  <name>Faulkner, J</name>
                  <name>Feeney, D</name>
                  <name>Furner, ML</name>
                  <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                  <name>Hogg, JJ</name>
                  <name>Lines, S</name>
                  <name>Ludlam, S</name>
                  <name>Ludwig, JW</name>
                  <name>Lundy, KA</name>
                  <name>Madigan, JJ</name>
                  <name>Marshall, GM</name>
                  <name>McEwen, A (teller)</name>
                  <name>McLucas, J</name>
                  <name>Milne, C</name>
                  <name>Moore, CM</name>
                  <name>Polley, H</name>
                  <name>Pratt, LC</name>
                  <name>Rhiannon, L</name>
                  <name>Siewert, R</name>
                  <name>Singh, LM</name>
                  <name>Stephens, U</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G</name>
                  <name>Thistlethwaite, M</name>
                  <name>Thorp, LE</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, AE</name>
                  <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                  <name>Wright, PL</name>
                  <name>Xenophon, N</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names></names>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division></subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>PETITIONS</title>
        <page.no>4236</page.no>
        <type>PETITIONS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Environmental Activists</title>
          <page.no>4236</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Native Forestry Industry</title>
          <page.no>4236</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:02</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator COLBECK</name>
    <name.id>00AOL</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I present to the Senate the following petition, from 902 citizens, which is not in conformity with the standing orders. The petition is in the same form as the native forestry industry petition with 561 signatures. The signatures on this petition are non-conforming as they were placed on the petition in an electronic form which no longer meets the Senate's requirements for a formal petition.</para>
<para>Petitions received.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>NOTICES</title>
        <page.no>4237</page.no>
        <type>NOTICES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Presentation</title>
          <page.no>4237</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Withdrawal</title>
          <page.no>4237</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:02</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Pursuant to notice given, I now withdraw business of the Senate notices of motion Nos 1 and 2 standing in my name for the next day of sitting.</para>
<para>Senator Xenophon to withdraw business of the Senate notice of motion No. 5 standing in his name for the disallowance of the Carbon Credits (Carbon Farming Initiative) Amendment Regulation 2013 (No. 1), as contained in Select Legislative Instrument 2013 No. 77 and made under the Carbon Credits (Carbon Farming Initiative) Act 2011.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>4237</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Selection of Bills Committee</title>
          <page.no>4237</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Report</title>
            <page.no>4237</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:02</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McEWEN</name>
    <name.id>e5e</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I present the eighth report of 2013 of the Selection of Bills Committee.</para>
<para>Ordered that the report be adopted.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McEWEN</name>
    <name.id>e5e</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to have the report incorporated in <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline>.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">The report read as follows—</inline></para>
<quote><para class="block">SELECTION OF BILLS COMMITTEE</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">REPORT NO. 8 OF 2013</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">1. The committee met in private session on Wednesday, 26 June 2013 at 6.44 pm.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">2. The committee resolved to recommend—That—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) contingent upon its introduction in the Senate, the Copyright Legislation Amendment (Fair Go for Fair Use) Bill 2013 be <inline font-style="italic">referred immediately</inline> to the Environment and Communications Legislation Committee for inquiry and report 3 October 2013 (see appendix 1for a statement of reasons for referral);</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) the Fair Trade (Workers' Rights) Bill 2013 be <inline font-style="italic">referred immediately</inline> to the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Legislation Committee for inquiry and report by the first sitting day in February 2014 (see appendix 2 for a statement of reasons for referral);</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) the Overseas Aid (Millennium Development Goals) Bill 2013 be <inline font-style="italic">referred immediately</inline> to the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Legislation Committee for inquiry and report by 30 November 2013 (see appendix 3 for a statement of reasons for referral); and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(d) the Voice for Animals (Independent Office of Animal Welfare) Bill 2013 be <inline font-style="italic">referred immediately</inline> to the Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport Legislation Committee for inquiry and report by 30 November 2013 (see appendix 4 for a statement of reasons for referral).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">3. The committee resolved to recommend—That the following bills not be referred to committees:</para></quote>
<list>Insurance Contracts Amendment (Unfair Terms) Bill 2013</list>
<list>Tax Laws Amendment (2013 Measures No. 3) Bill 2013</list>
<list>Tax Laws Amendment (2013 Measures No. 4) Bill 2013.</list>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">The committee recommends accordingly.</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">4. The committee deferred consideration of the following bills to its next meeting:</para></quote>
<list>Commonwealth Electoral Amendment (Leaders' Debate Commission) Bill 2013</list>
<list>Competition and Consumer Amendment (Australian Country of Origin Food Labelling) Bill 2013</list>
<list>Fair Trade (Australian Standards) Bill 2013</list>
<list>Interactive Gambling Amendment (Virtual Credits) Bill 2013</list>
<list>Social Security and Other Legislation Amendment (Caring for Single Parents) Bill 2013</list>
<list>Social Security Legislation Amendment (Caring for People on Newstart) Bill 2013.</list>
<quote><para class="block">(Anne McEwen)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Chair</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">27 June 2013</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">A ppendix 1</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">SELECTION OF BILLS COMMITTEE</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Proposal to refer a bill to a committee:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Name of bill:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Copyright Legislation Amendment (Fair Go for Fair Use) Bill2013</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Reasons for referra l/ principal issues for consideration:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">To canvas expert and community views on four reforms to Australian copyright law proposed by this Bill; the removal of clauses in Australian law that prevent the visually impaired from enjoying purchased content for private and domestic use, the protection of Australia's libraries and educational institutions through a stronger safe harbours provision, the prevention of Australians paying higher prices for software, games and music and the adoption of a fair use model based on the US system which allows the law to respond to new technology that was not, or could not, be foreseen by parliamentarians.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Possible submissions or evidence from:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Member organisations of the Australian Digital Alliance—http://digital.org.au/content/ members</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Member organisations of the Copyright Council—http://www.copyright.org.au/ Member organisations of the Communications Alliance http://www.commsalliance.eom.au/about-us/membership</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Committee to which bill is to be referred:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Environment and Communications Committee</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Possible hearing date(s):</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">August</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Possible reporting date:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">October</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(signed)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Senator Siewert</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Whip/Selection of Bills Committee Member</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">A ppendix 2</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">SELECTION OF BILLS COMMITTEE</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Proposal to refer a bill to a committee:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Name of Bill:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Fair Trade (Workers' Right) Bill 2013</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Reasons for referral/principal issues for consideration:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The impacts this Bill will have on international labour standards with our trading partners.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The impact this Bill will have on Australian business' competitiveness.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Consideration on how this bill will advance human rights in developing nations which sign trade agreements with Australia in the future.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Comment on the definition of the minimum labour standards definition.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Possible submissions or evidence from:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australian Trade Unions</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">International Trade Unions</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Local and International Humanitarian NGOs</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australian Civic NGOs Political Parties Business Associations</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Small, medium and large business</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australian Citizens</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Committee to which the bill is to be referred:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Possible hearing date(s):</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">August 2013-December 2013</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Possible reporting date:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">February 2013</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Senator John Madigan</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Senator McEwen</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Whip/Selection of Bills Committee Member</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Appendix 3</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">SELECTION OF BILLS COMMITTEE</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Proposal to refer a bill to a committee:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Name of Bill:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Overseas Aid (Millennium Development Goals) Bill 2013</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Reasons for referral/principal issues for consideration:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Public in interest in Overseas Aid</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Possible submissions or evidence from:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Action Aid; Oxfam; ACFID</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Proposal to refer a bill to a committee:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Possible hearing date(s):</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">TBC</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Possible reporting date:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">30 November 2013</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(signed)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Senator Siewert</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Whip/Selection of Bills Committee Member</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Appendix 4</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">SELECTION OF BILLS COMMITTEE</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Proposal to refer a bill to a committee:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Name of bill:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Voice for Animals (Independent Office of Animal Welfare) Bill 2013</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Reasons for referral/principal issues for consideration:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Public interest in improving animal welfare</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Possible submissions or evidence from:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">RSPCA; Voiceless; Humane Society; WSPA; Animals Australia</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Committee to which bill is to be referred:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Possible hearing date(s):</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">TBC</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Possible reporting date:    </para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">30 November 2013</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(signed)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Senator Siewert</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Whip/Selection of Bills Committee Member</para></quote>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BUSINESS</title>
        <page.no>4239</page.no>
        <type>BUSINESS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Leave of Absence</title>
          <page.no>4239</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:03</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McEWEN</name>
    <name.id>e5e</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That leave of absence be granted to the following senators for 28 June 2013:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) Senator Bob Carr, on account of parliamentary business; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) Senator Collins, for personal reasons.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Rearrangement</title>
          <page.no>4239</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:04</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator JACINTA COLLINS</name>
    <name.id>GB6</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the order of general business for consideration of today be as follows:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) general business order of the day no. 115 (Health Insurance Amendment (Medicare Funding for Certain Types of Abortion) Bill 2013); and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) general business order of the day no. 109 (Criminal Code Amendment (Misrepresentation of Age to a Minor) Bill 2013).</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>NOTICES</title>
        <page.no>4239</page.no>
        <type>NOTICES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Postponement</title>
          <page.no>4239</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BILLS</title>
        <page.no>4240</page.no>
        <type>BILLS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Fair Trade (Australian Standards) Bill 2013</title>
          <page.no>4240</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" style="" background="" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint">
            <a type="Bill" href="s920">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Fair Trade (Australian Standards) Bill 2013</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>First Reading</title>
            <page.no>4240</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:05</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator MADIGAN</name>
    <name.id>217571</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the following bill be introduced:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">A Bill for an Act to provide for certain minimum standards for products imported into Australia under a trade agreement, and for related purposes.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator MADIGAN</name>
    <name.id>217571</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I present the bill and move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill may proceed without formalities and be now read a first time.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a first time.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>4240</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:06</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator MADIGAN</name>
    <name.id>217571</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill be now read a second time.</para></quote>
<para>I seek leave to table an explanatory memorandum relating to the bill.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator MADIGAN</name>
    <name.id>217571</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I table an explanatory memorandum and I seek leave to have the second reading speech incorporated in <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline>.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">The speech read as follows—</inline></para>
<quote><para class="block">FAIR TRADE (AUSTRALIAN STANDARDS) BILL 2013</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Today I introduce the Fair Trade (Australian Standards) Bill 2013.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Last week I introduced the first of a series of Fair Trade Bills that I hope will bring us closer to that mythical 'level playing field' we hear so much about with regards to our international trade agreements.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Fair Trade (Workers' Rights) Bill was introduced with the hope that by addressing the pitiful situation of workers' rights in many of the countries with which we trade, Australia will be able to effect some manner of improvement in their conditions, while helping our own industries to become more competitive in our own domestic market.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Today I am pleased to be introducing the second of these Fair Trade Bills.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Just as the rights of workers in so many countries are sub-standard by Australian standards so too we find that many of the products being exported from countries we trade with fail to meet Australian Standards. Under current regulations the import of these products is permitted provided they are brought up to the necessary standard level before being used or on sold within Australia.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">As we know there is little policing of these regulations and as a result sub-standard and dangerous products are regularly released into the Australian workplaces and marketplaces, often with tragic results. The immediate finger of blame can be pointed at the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC); but while policing of these regulations does fall to their department; can we honestly expect them to examine every article that enters the country without vastly increasing their administrative budget and workforce ?</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I could give example after example of cases where workplace injuries have occurred as a result of sub-standard products being released into the Australian market without having been examined by the ACCC. However, this Bill is not an exercise in berating the ACCC for failing to act or of criticising the government for not dramatically increasing their workforce. This Bill is directed at the Trade negotiations we hold with other countries and the conditions we are prepared to bargain away.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">As I said when introducing the Fair Trade (Workers' Rights) Bill, many will say this Bill cannot work because we cannot legislate for countries other than Australia. Again I remind Senators that, while that statement is essentially true, that is not what this Bill seeks to do. After all, unless we have given up all control of our borders, we can legislate on which products we accept into this country and the circumstances under which we will accept them.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The intent of this Bill is simply to ensure that every step possible is taken to comply with the necessary Australian Standards before a product is released onto the Australian marketplace or workplace. Likewise, if an Australian company exports goods to another country, that company should be required to meet local product standards.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">At present there are very few requirements for an overseas company to comply with Australian Standards when exporting their products to our shores. Once the product leaves their country their obligations generally cease and it becomes the responsibility of the Australian importer to comply with the regulations to bring the product up to the necessary standards.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Time and again we see importers who fail to meet those requirements and who, once their faulty products are detected, fold up leaving little or no recourse for the Australian consumer. Shortly after another, similar importer sets up business, importing similar or identical goods, and the process starts up again.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The lack of policing leaves workers and consumers at the mercy of shonky operators who import substandard goods and, having decided that a quick profit makes more sense than a safe marketplace, they put lives and livelihoods at risk.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">And let's not forget the thousands of genuine businesses across our country who are trying to comply with all necessary regulations and who are committed to selling only those products that meet Australian Standards. How much do they suffer because their business can't compete with these irresponsible importers?</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Substandard products do not only injure Australian workers and consumers, they also injure Australian businesses who are trying to compete against all odds in what is ridiculously referred to as a level playing field.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Surely at some point the manufacturer, the overseas exporter, must be held accountable. To produce a product that is acceptable in their own country is their own business; but to produce a product that is acceptable in our country is both our and their business. Ensuring their products are imported by reputable businesses and are on sold only after they have complied with local regulations is simply good business.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Fair Trade (Australian Standards) Bill 2013 calls for all future trade agreements to include a binding requirement (binding on all parties involved) that goods sold to a purchaser located in one country by a company or entity located in the other country, must comply with all applicable product standards that apply in the purchasers country or if they do not comply – the company or entity selling the products must ensure that the goods are improved to standards that comply with all applicable product standards.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In other words, any product imported to Australia from a country we have a signed agreement with must be guaranteed by the exporting country, to comply with Australian Standards before being used or on sold in Australia. For our part Australia will agree to do the same with regards products we export to their country.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It is hoped that with this requirement in place, companies exporting to Australia will see the benefit in trading only with reputable importers who will bring their products up to standard or will improve their procedures to ensure the goods are up to standard before reaching our shores.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">While it is understood that it is difficult to force an overseas company to comply with many of our domestic regulations, the fact that this would be a binding arrangement in a trade agreement means that by not complying with these requirements the exporting company could lose lucrative contracts to competitors who are prepared to abide by the regulations.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Likewise, with pressure on exporting companies to use reputable importers to guarantee long term compliance with the regulations rather than using disreputable importers whose desire for quick profits will damage the standing of the exporter by leading to a breach in the regulations; local importers will have less competition from the 'shonky' operators and will be better able to compete in the local marketplace.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Mr President, again I say there is no level playing field. We know it and the Australian people know it. And what's worse our international competitors know it and are only too glad to exploit it.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Today, instead of raising the standards of imported goods to the levels of quality equal to that of Australian manufacturers, we are expecting Australian producers to compete against low quality goods that are exported by overseas companies with little or no obligation for the final standard of that product. This position is untenable and grossly unfair to Australian consumers, Australian workers and Australian businesses.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">While this Bill cannot deal with all the problems we face from cheap imports and under policing, I am hopeful it can go some way towards improving the situation and at least move us towards a more competitive position in our own country.</para></quote>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator MADIGAN</name>
    <name.id>217571</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to continue my remarks later.</para>
<para>Leave granted; debate adjourned.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Copyright Legislation Amendment (Fair Go for Fair Use) Bill 2013</title>
          <page.no>4242</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" style="" background="" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint">
            <a type="Bill" href="s928">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Copyright Legislation Amendment (Fair Go for Fair Use) Bill 2013</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>First Reading</title>
            <page.no>4242</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:06</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LUDLAM</name>
    <name.id>I07</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the following bill be introduced:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">A Bill for an Act to provide for the better use of, and fairer access to, copyrighted information, and for related purposes</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LUDLAM</name>
    <name.id>I07</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I present the bill and move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill may proceed without formalities and be now read a first time.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a first time.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>4242</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:07</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LUDLAM</name>
    <name.id>I07</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill be now read a second time.</para></quote>
<para>I seek leave to table an explanatory memorandum relating to the bill.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LUDLAM</name>
    <name.id>I07</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para> I table an explanatory memorandum and seek leave to have the second reading speech incorporated in <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline><inline font-style="italic">.</inline></para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">The speech read as follows—</inline></para>
<quote><para class="block">COPYRIGHT LEGISLATION AMENDMENT (FAIR GO FOR FAIR USE) BILL 2013</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill introduces four reforms to Australian copyright law to remove discrimination to the visually impaired, protect Australia's libraries, digital innovators and educational institutions, prevent Australians paying higher prices for software, games and music and to adopt the US fair use model which allows the law to respond to new technology that was not, or could not, be foreseen by parliamentarians.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australian copyright law is out of date, inflexible, unnecessarily complex, imbalanced and virtually blind to digital communication technology such as smartphones used by three out of four Australian adults.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Until our copyright laws were last updated in 2006, it was illegal for Australians to use a videocassette recorder (VCR). The absurdity of this was obvious given the widespread use of this technology in education and entertainment. While the law caught up with the video age eventually, advances in technology have served to make our laws nonsensical once again.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Current anomalies in Australian copyright law include:</para></quote>
<list>Operating a search engine in Australia risks infringing copyright;</list>
<list>Libraries can make copies of a work in order to replace it but only after the work is stolen or lost.</list>
<list>Australian schools are spending millions of dollars to use content that is freely available online such as free tourism maps or fact sheets for treating head lice;</list>
<list>It is illegal to remove digital locks from a legally purchased e-book in order to read it on a different device or back it up;</list>
<list>Many Australians buy CDs not knowing that it is illegal to listen to them on their smartphone and their tablet.</list>
<list>Music can be copied from a CD to a tablet but not a purchased DVD;</list>
<list>Playing an online video in a presentation to a group is illegal;</list>
<list>Comedians can use material in parody or satire but artists can't use the same material for art.</list>
<quote><para class="block">When Gutenberg invented the printing press, it was banned for periods of time in some parts of Germany. When libraries were created, the publishing industry feared authors would starve and the book business would die if people could read for free. What soon became apparent is that libraries sharing culture created incentives for further learning, writing and the creation of more culture. Similar types of fears and predictions were aroused by the invention of the photocopier and video cassette recorder.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The internet is all of these things - the greatest library in human history, proliferating and recording information, sharing culture and innovation while providing opportunities to collaborate and communicate despite location. Shutting down the printing presses didn't stop the desire to read and learn. Locking up content that can be shared online and shutting down technology isn't going to either.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Greens believe that the potentials, benefits and gifts of the online library can be available safely with privacy and human rights and civil liberties intact, as well as copyright preserved for commercial copying, but only if we pay very careful attention to the balance that is being struck between these freedoms and our obligations as citizens. We are currently not getting the balance right.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Technical Protection Measures (TPMs)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Technical Protection Measures (TPMs) lock up content, denying visually impaired people the ability to take advantage of audio editions of e-books (making text to speech) or converting a text book into braille or using voice synthesiser to convert a digital article. Overcoming the barriers to sharing published works across borders is under negotiation at the World Intellectual Property Organisation Treaty to Facilitate Access to Published Works by Visually Impaired Persons and Persons with Print Disabilities. This Bill seeks to remove current practices in Australian law that discriminate against the visually impaired.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill provides an exception so that TPMs can no longer prevent visually impaired people from enjoying audio books in accessible formats. It allows service providers - libraries, institutions and those providing assistance to the visually impaired, including online services, to buy content and make it available for the visually impaired in a format to be enjoyed for private and domestic use.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill also requires regulation to ensure that schools, universities and libraries assisting the visually impaired are given an exception in the Copyright Act when that content is lawfully acquired by or on behalf of a person with visual impairment.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Safe Harbour</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Currently Australian universities, libraries, schools, digital innovators, cultural institutions and IT companies provide internet services without the benefit of the same safe harbour as their equivalents overseas. A Safe Harbour would allow content provide to make information and culture available online and will be protected by common activities - transmitting data, caching, hosting and referring users to an online location - where service providers do not control, initiate or direct the users' online activities are currently not covered by the scheme.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Having had time to evaluate the changes to copyright law made in 2006, and the disparity in safe harbour schemes provided for Australia in the US Free Trade Agreement, the government recognised the need to address the safe harbour issue in 2011 through initiating an inquiry. The discussion paper proposed the expansion of the range of service providers to be protected, however the government never reported in response to submissions.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill acts to protects Australia's public and other non-profit educational institutions from being liable for how people might use the content made available through their services. It adapts the model adopted in the US in the US Digital Millennium Copyright Act with a simple and technologically neutral definition of a service provider. It also details the responsibilities for public or non-profit institution to promote and comply with copyright law, but recognises limits in the extent to which the institution is responsible for the behaviour of persons utilising their services.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Geocode mechanisms</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Geocode mechanisms serve to enforce different prices and associated conditions of use of content by Australian consumers. Australians are paying high prices – much higher prices – for some IT hardware, software, computer games, music and video products due to Geocode mechanisms. This is having a negative impact on Australian businesses and citizens who are limited in engaging with international markets.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill addresses this serious problem of geographic market segmentation is designed to enforce different prices for e-books, films, games, music and recordings for people in Australia. It amends the phrase 'acquired outside of Australia' because consumers downloading content in Australia may not fall under the exclusion 'acquired outside of Australia'. A general phrase is inserted: 'content made available by, with the permission of, or on behalf of, the owner or the exclusive licensee of the copyright in a work or other subject-matter.'</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Fair Use</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">A Fair Use reform would shift Australian law to the US model. Such a technically neutral doctrine would allow the law to respond to developments in technology, with the acceptability of new uses of content and technology determined when a dispute arises.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In the Australian system, every new use or technology is forbidden until Parliament gets around to saying otherwise. Under the fair use model, decisions are not made on specific technology through legislation but on the nature and market effect of use of copyright works.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">A Fair Use doctrine allows people developing new technologies or who a reproducing and transforming culture to make an assessment of whether their use is fair and if they are challenged they have to defend their use or negotiate terms with the copyright holder. The alternative is a less flexible rule based system where, people with existing lobbing power may have an undue advantage in achieving new exceptions.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill adapts aspects of the US Copyright Act, repealing Section 200AB of the Australian Act.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The arguments for and against the fair use doctrine are being canvassed and examined through the Australian Law Reform Commission inquiry and discussion paper. The Greens believe that testing how fair use might translate to the Australian legal system is worth beginning in parallel to that process.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Copyright reform is needed to remove discriminatory barriers that impact the visually impaired or force Australians to pay more for no good reason, to protect our learning and cultural institutions and provide fair rules, fair process and fair opportunities to defend use of copyrighted material.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australian laws cannot continue to migrate assumptions about copyright from the printed or analogue age which is rapidly passing as we enter the digital age.</para></quote>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LUDLAM</name>
    <name.id>I07</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to continue my remarks later.</para>
<para>Leave granted; debate adjourned.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Guardian for Unaccompanied Children Bill 2013</title>
          <page.no>4244</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>First Reading</title>
            <page.no>4244</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:08</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON-YOUNG</name>
    <name.id>I0U</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the following bill be introduced: A Bill for an Act to establish an independent Office of Guardian for Unaccompanied Non-Citizen Children and for related purposes.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON-YOUNG</name>
    <name.id>I0U</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I present the bill and move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill may proceed without formalities and be now read a first time.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a first time.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>4245</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:09</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON-YOUNG</name>
    <name.id>I0U</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill be now read a second time.</para></quote>
<para>I seek leave to table an explanatory memorandum.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON-YOUNG</name>
    <name.id>I0U</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I table the explanatory memorandum and seek leave to have the second reading speech incorporated in <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline>.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">The speech read as follows—</inline></para>
<quote><para class="block">GUARDIAN FOR UNACCOMPANIED CHILDREN BILL 2013</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This bill establishes an independent office of the Guardian for Unaccompanied Non-Citizen Children to provide expert care and advocacy for asylum seeker children who arrive in Australia on their own.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">No child belongs in detention. We know that keeping children locked up hinders their development and causes them significant mental harm, as the Australian Medical Association and other experts have repeatedly said. We have heard doctors giving evidence to a parliamentary committee that keeping children in immigration detention is tantamount to child abuse.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">For refugee children who are here without parental or family support, having fled torture and persecution by taking a harrowing boat trip and now finding themselves alone in a strange new country, there is all the more risk of long-term trauma.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">At the time of introducing this bill, there are 75 unaccompanied children in places of detention in Christmas Island, 338 in detention on the Australian mainland and over 257 in community detention.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This bill is spurred by the Australian Greens' long-held policy position that children do not belong in detention, and by our great alarm at the high numbers of unaccompanied children currently exposed to harm in Australia's immigration detention network.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The role of the Guardian established by this Bill is critical in removing the guardianship of unaccompanied children from the government of the day. For decades now, the Minister for Immigration has held the conflicting roles of guardian and detainer of unaccompanied asylum seeker children.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This is because under current law, the Minister has a responsibility to look after unaccompanied children's best interests as their appointed Guardian under the Immigration (Guardianship of Children) Act 1946 as well as a responsibility for deciding whether or not to detain them under the Migration Act 1958.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">As immigration law expert Professor Mary Crock has powerfully said, the simple and devastating problem for young asylum seekers is that the Minister is both their legal guardian, and their prosecutor, judge and gaoler.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It is not just advocates and experts in Australia who have, for many years, been forcefully calling for action to address this conflict of interest. The eyes of the world are watching Australia, in relation to this issue as well as the current government's regressive adoption of cruel deterrence polices towards asylum seekers across the board.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In June 2012 Australia appeared before the UN Committee on the Rights of the Child to respond to questions on Australia's commitment to improving the fundamental rights and welfare of its children.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Committee drew specific attention to the issue of the conflict of interest in guardianship and strongly recommended that the Australian Government expeditiously establish an independent guardianship for unaccompanied immigrant children.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">A Joint Select Committee into Australia's Immigration Detention Network, which reported to Parliament in early 2012, also recommended that relevant legislation be amended to replace the Minister for Immigration as the legal guardian of unaccompanied minors in the immigration detention system.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In passing this bill into law and establishing the office of the Guardian for Unaccompanied Children, the federal legislature will at last be correcting this much criticised and deeply unsatisfactory failure of Australian law and policy.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This is a crucial reform due to the high stakes of children's full lives, inherent rights and personal wellbeing.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Human Rights Commission has previously commented that unaccompanied children who are seeking asylum are particularly vulnerable. These children have faced the challenge of making the difficult and dangerous journey to Australia alone, and upon their arrival in Australia they must negotiate the refugee status determination process and the experience of detention without family support.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">There are also compelling reasons under international law for this bill to be passed as a matter of urgency.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Convention on the Rights of the Child (CRC), to which Australia is signatory, requires our government to ensure that unaccompanied children who are seeking asylum should receive the extra help they need to guarantee enjoyment of all rights set out under the CRC and international law.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australia must provide special protection and assistance to ensure that the best interests of unaccompanied children seeking asylum are a primary consideration at all times.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill sets up a Guardian who will be in a position to advocate that children should not be detained by reason of his or her immigration status, or if detained, for the shortest possible period of time. The Guardian will also be mandated to oversee and ensure the provision of legal and other assistance such as care, accommodation, education, language and health support amongst other functions. The Guardian will be responsible for ensuring that the best interests of the child are always the paramount consideration. This is not something that the Minister, who is simultaneously responsible for the detention of the child, can likewise achieve.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This is a reform that cannot wait any longer. As global asylum flows continue to increase, irregular migration continues unabated and boats continue to arrive to Australian territories, our country needs an entirely uncompromised institution to care for the most vulnerable cohort of asylum seekers, unaccompanied children.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I commend this Bill to the Senate.</para></quote>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON-YOUNG</name>
    <name.id>I0U</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to continue my remarks later.</para>
<para>Leave granted; debate adjourned.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>MOTIONS</title>
        <page.no>4246</page.no>
        <type>MOTIONS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>United States: Climate Change</title>
          <page.no>4246</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:10</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator MILNE</name>
    <name.id>ka5</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate congratulates the President of the United States of America, Barack Obama, on his speech about climate change.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BILLS</title>
        <page.no>4246</page.no>
        <type>BILLS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Reserve Bank Amendment (Australian Reconstruction and Development Board) Bill 2013</title>
          <page.no>4246</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" style="" background="" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint">
            <a type="Bill" href="r5098">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Reserve Bank Amendment (Australian Reconstruction and Development Board) Bill 2013</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>First Reading</title>
            <page.no>4246</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:11</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator XENOPHON</name>
    <name.id>8IV</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the following bill be introduced:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">A Bill for an Act to amend the Reserve Bank Act 1959, and for related purposes.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator XENOPHON</name>
    <name.id>8IV</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I present the bill and move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill may proceed without formalities and be now read a first time.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a first time.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>4246</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:11</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator XENOPHON</name>
    <name.id>8IV</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill be now read a second time.</para></quote>
<para>I seek leave to table an explanatory memorandum.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator XENOPHON</name>
    <name.id>8IV</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I table the explanatory memorandum and seek leave to have the second reading speech incorporated in <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline>.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">The speech read as follows—</inline></para>
<quote><para class="block">RESERVE BANK AMENDMENT (AUSTRALIAN RECONSTRUCTION AND DEVELOPMENT BOARD) BILL 2013</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Rural and regional Australia is struggling. We have heard over and over again the challenges communities are facing, and how they are trying to survive. In recent years, they have borne the brunt of extreme weather events, a high Australian dollar, and a lack of support from State, Territory and Federal Governments.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This bill, which mirrors that introduced in the House by the Member for Kennedy, the Hon. Bob Katter MP, seeks to establish a specific board under the umbrella of the Reserve Bank. The aim of this board is to aid reconstruction and development in rural and regional areas.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In a sense, the proposed board is similar to the Commonwealth Development Bank, which was established in 1960. Its aim was to provide loans to individuals and businesses in the primary and secondary industry sectors, where that support would lead to an increase in productivity and wasn't otherwise available to the applicants.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Rural and regional areas are, in many ways, the lifeblood of our country. Certainly, our farmers play an incredibly important role both in our economy and our national security. Without their produce, we are all at risk.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">People living in rural and regional areas face challenges on almost every front. In terms of healthcare, of education, of aged care, and of employment, they have to fight to be counted.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">If rural and regional communities do not receive the support they so desperately need, the impact on the rest of Australia will be significant, in both economic and cultural terms.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It is time to overhaul our attitude in this area. Government grants and programs are no longer enough. Instead, we need to establish a body that has the power to make a real, long term difference, such as the board proposed in this bill.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We cannot ignore this problem any longer. Australians living in rural and regional communities deserve better. They deserve security, and they deserve to know the Government is taking meaningful steps to fix this problem.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The measures in this bill will bring about real and long lasting change. And that change will not only benefit rural and regional communities, but the rest of Australia as those communities flourish.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This bill is in the best interests of us all.</para></quote>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator XENOPHON</name>
    <name.id>8IV</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to continue my remarks later.</para>
<para>Leave granted; debate adjourned.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>4247</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Legal and Constitutional Affairs References Committee</title>
          <page.no>4247</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Reference</title>
            <page.no>4247</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:12</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HUMPHRIES</name>
    <name.id>KO6</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the following matter be referred to the Legal and Constitutional Affairs References Committee for inquiry and report by 30 September 2013:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The operation and effectiveness of customs functions within the Australian Customs and Border Protection Service, with particular reference to:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) the effectiveness of controls in place to prevent goods from entering the country illicitly;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) issues of alleged misconduct, bribery and corruption in the Australian Customs and Border Protection Service;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) any links between staff of the Australian Customs and Border Protection Service and organised crime;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(d) the extent to which criminal gangs use the proceeds of smuggled goods to fund their activities;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(e) an assessment of the current division of roles and responsibilities of different levels of government (federal, state and local) to respond to smuggling and the integration of these roles to ensure best outcomes;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(f) the incentives and disincentives for criminal organisations to engage in illicit trade;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(g) the levels of illicit tobacco products coming into Australia and the cost to the Australian taxpayer;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(h) options to improve border security and control; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) any related matter.</para></quote>
<para>Question negatived.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Environment and Communications References Committee</title>
          <page.no>4248</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:12</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator JACINTA COLLINS</name>
    <name.id>GB6</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>At the request of Senator Conroy, I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the following matter be referred to the Environment and Communications References Committee for inquiry and report by 19 July 2013:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">All matters relevant to the impacts of imposing on Telstra Corporation Limited a carrier licence condition that would require it to produce printed and online national number directories within Australia.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Cyber Safety Select Committee</title>
          <page.no>4248</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Appointment</title>
            <page.no>4248</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:13</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator JACINTA COLLINS</name>
    <name.id>GB6</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to amend government business notice of motion No. 1.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator JACINTA COLLINS</name>
    <name.id>GB6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I move the motion as amended:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) That a select committee, to be known as the Select Committee on Cyber Safety be appointed to inquire into and report on options for addressing the issue of sexting by minors.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) That the committee present its final report on or before 30 August 2013.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) That the committee consist of 6 senators, 3 to be nominated by the Leader of the Government in the Senate, 2 to be nominated by the Leader of the Opposition in the Senate, and 1 to be nominated by minority groups or independents.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(4) That the committee may proceed to the dispatch of business notwithstanding that all members have not been duly nominated and appointed and notwithstanding any vacancy.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(5) That the committee elect as chair one of the members nominated by the Leader of the Government in the Senate.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(6) That the chair of the committee may, from time to time, appoint another member of the committee to be the deputy chair of the committee, and that the member so appointed act as chair of the committee at any time when there is no chair or the chair is not present, at a meeting of the committee.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(7) That, in the event of an equality of voting, the chair, or the deputy chair when acting as chair, have a casting vote.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(8) That the quorum of the committee be 3 members.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(9) That the committee and any subcommittee have power to send for and examine persons and documents, to move from place to place, to sit in public or in private, notwithstanding any prorogation of the Parliament or dissolution of the House of Representatives, and have leave to report from time to time its proceedings and the evidence taken and such interim recommendations as it may deem fit.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(10) That the committee have power to appoint subcommittees consisting of 3 or more of its members, and to refer to any such subcommittee any of the matters which the committee is empowered to consider, and that the quorum of a subcommittee be a majority of the senators appointed to the subcommittee.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(11) That the committee be provided with all necessary staff, facilities and resources and be empowered to appoint persons with specialist knowledge for the purposes of the committee with the approval of the President.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(12) That the committee be empowered to print from day to day such documents and evidence as may be ordered by it, and a daily Hansard be published of such proceedings as take place in public.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>MOTIONS</title>
        <page.no>4249</page.no>
        <type>MOTIONS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Carbon Pricing</title>
          <page.no>4249</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:14</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator KROGER</name>
    <name.id>G1N</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>At the request of Senator Birmingham, I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate calls on the Government to bring forward urgently a bill to provide that the legislated increase in the carbon tax from 1 July 2013 does not proceed.</para></quote>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>7L6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that general business notice of motion No. 1314, moved by Senator Kroger, be agreed to.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
          <division.header>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided [12:18]<br />(The President—Senator Hogg)</p>
            </body>
          </division.header>
          <division.data>
            <ayes>
              <num.votes>33</num.votes>
              <title>AYES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Abetz, E</name>
                <name>Back, CJ</name>
                <name>Bernardi, C</name>
                <name>Birmingham, SJ</name>
                <name>Boswell, RLD</name>
                <name>Boyce, SK</name>
                <name>Brandis, GH</name>
                <name>Bushby, DC</name>
                <name>Cash, MC</name>
                <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                <name>Cormann, M</name>
                <name>Edwards, S</name>
                <name>Eggleston, A</name>
                <name>Fawcett, DJ</name>
                <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                <name>Fifield, MP</name>
                <name>Heffernan, W</name>
                <name>Humphries, G</name>
                <name>Johnston, D</name>
                <name>Kroger, H (teller)</name>
                <name>Macdonald, ID</name>
                <name>Madigan, JJ</name>
                <name>Mason, B</name>
                <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                <name>Parry, S</name>
                <name>Payne, MA</name>
                <name>Ronaldson, M</name>
                <name>Ruston, A</name>
                <name>Ryan, SM</name>
                <name>Scullion, NG</name>
                <name>Sinodinos, A</name>
                <name>Smith, D</name>
                <name>Xenophon, N</name>
              </names>
            </ayes>
            <noes>
              <num.votes>37</num.votes>
              <title>NOES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Bilyk, CL</name>
                <name>Bishop, TM</name>
                <name>Brown, CL</name>
                <name>Cameron, DN</name>
                <name>Carr, KJ</name>
                <name>Collins, JMA</name>
                <name>Crossin, P</name>
                <name>Di Natale, R</name>
                <name>Farrell, D</name>
                <name>Faulkner, J</name>
                <name>Feeney, D</name>
                <name>Furner, ML</name>
                <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                <name>Hogg, JJ</name>
                <name>Lines, S</name>
                <name>Ludlam, S</name>
                <name>Ludwig, JW</name>
                <name>Lundy, KA</name>
                <name>Marshall, GM</name>
                <name>McEwen, A (teller)</name>
                <name>McLucas, J</name>
                <name>Milne, C</name>
                <name>Moore, CM</name>
                <name>Polley, H</name>
                <name>Pratt, LC</name>
                <name>Rhiannon, L</name>
                <name>Siewert, R</name>
                <name>Singh, LM</name>
                <name>Stephens, U</name>
                <name>Sterle, G</name>
                <name>Thistlethwaite, M</name>
                <name>Thorp, LE</name>
                <name>Urquhart, AE</name>
                <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                <name>Wright, PL</name>
              </names>
            </noes>
            <pairs>
              <num.votes>0</num.votes>
              <title>PAIRS</title>
              <names></names>
            </pairs>
          </division.data>
          <division.result>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
            </body>
          </division.result>
        </division></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Convention on Biological Diversity</title>
          <page.no>4249</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:21</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKENZIE</name>
    <name.id>207825</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) notes that Australia is a signatory to the Convention on Biological Diversity, confirming Australia's commitment to sustainable development through the conservation of biological diversity and the sustainable use of resources, and specifically notes Article 10 of the Convention and its focus on:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) encouraging cooperation between government and the private sector in the sustainable use of biological resources,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) protecting and encouraging customary use of biological resources in accordance with traditional cultural practices that are compatible with conservation or sustainable use requirements, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(iii) supporting local approaches to remedial action in areas of reduced biological diversity;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) supports the sustainable use of Australia's national parks and reserves to conserve biological diversity; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) notes the Foundation for Australia's Most Endangered Species recognition of value of hunting in protecting biological diversity, particularly in relation to feral control.</para></quote>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>7L6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the motion moved by Senator McKenzie be agreed to.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
          <division.header>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [12:22]<br />(The President—Senator Hogg)</p>
            </body>
          </division.header>
          <division.data>
            <ayes>
              <num.votes>31</num.votes>
              <title>AYES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Abetz, E</name>
                <name>Back, CJ</name>
                <name>Bernardi, C</name>
                <name>Birmingham, SJ</name>
                <name>Boswell, RLD</name>
                <name>Boyce, SK</name>
                <name>Bushby, DC</name>
                <name>Cash, MC</name>
                <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                <name>Cormann, M</name>
                <name>Edwards, S</name>
                <name>Eggleston, A</name>
                <name>Fawcett, DJ</name>
                <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                <name>Fifield, MP</name>
                <name>Heffernan, W</name>
                <name>Humphries, G</name>
                <name>Johnston, D</name>
                <name>Kroger, H (teller)</name>
                <name>Macdonald, ID</name>
                <name>Madigan, JJ</name>
                <name>Mason, B</name>
                <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                <name>Parry, S</name>
                <name>Payne, MA</name>
                <name>Ronaldson, M</name>
                <name>Ruston, A</name>
                <name>Ryan, SM</name>
                <name>Scullion, NG</name>
                <name>Sinodinos, A</name>
                <name>Smith, D</name>
              </names>
            </ayes>
            <noes>
              <num.votes>36</num.votes>
              <title>NOES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Bilyk, CL</name>
                <name>Bishop, TM</name>
                <name>Cameron, DN</name>
                <name>Carr, KJ</name>
                <name>Collins, JMA</name>
                <name>Crossin, P</name>
                <name>Di Natale, R</name>
                <name>Farrell, D</name>
                <name>Faulkner, J</name>
                <name>Feeney, D</name>
                <name>Furner, ML</name>
                <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                <name>Hogg, JJ</name>
                <name>Lines, S</name>
                <name>Ludlam, S</name>
                <name>Ludwig, JW</name>
                <name>Lundy, KA</name>
                <name>Marshall, GM</name>
                <name>McEwen, A (teller)</name>
                <name>McLucas, J</name>
                <name>Milne, C</name>
                <name>Moore, CM</name>
                <name>Polley, H</name>
                <name>Pratt, LC</name>
                <name>Rhiannon, L</name>
                <name>Siewert, R</name>
                <name>Singh, LM</name>
                <name>Stephens, U</name>
                <name>Sterle, G</name>
                <name>Thistlethwaite, M</name>
                <name>Thorp, LE</name>
                <name>Urquhart, AE</name>
                <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                <name>Wright, PL</name>
              </names>
            </noes>
            <pairs>
              <num.votes>0</num.votes>
              <title>PAIRS</title>
              <names></names>
            </pairs>
          </division.data>
          <division.result>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
            </body>
          </division.result>
        </division></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Convention on Wetlands of International Importance</title>
          <page.no>4250</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:25</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKENZIE</name>
    <name.id>207825</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to amend general business of motion No. 1321 standing in my name for today relating to the Ramsar convention by adding paragraph (d).</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKENZIE</name>
    <name.id>207825</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I move the amended motion:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) notes the significance of the Convention on Wetlands of International Importance (Ramsar Convention), an intergovernmental treaty, which centres on the concept of ‘wise use’ to promote the conservation and sustainable use of wetlands and their resources, through ecosystem approaches, for the benefit of humankind, and specifically that:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) the Ramsar Convention aims are to halt the worldwide loss of wetlands and to conserve through ‘wise use’ management those that remain, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) that ‘wise use’ means the conservation and sustainable use of wetlands and their resources for the benefit of humankind;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) acknowledges that:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) the Ramsar Convention stresses the importance of maintaining ‘ecological character’ and that this should be done for the peoples’ benefit, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) the natural environment has inherent value, and value in relation to peoples’ relationship and interaction with it;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) supports the wise use of wetlands; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(d) congratulates Field and Game Australia for the conservation of the Heart Morass, the largest habitat conservation project in Australia.</para></quote>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>7L6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the motion moved by Senator McKenzie be agreed to.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
          <division.header>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [12:27]<br />(The President—Senator Hogg)</p>
            </body>
          </division.header>
          <division.data>
            <ayes>
              <num.votes>31</num.votes>
              <title>AYES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Abetz, E</name>
                <name>Back, CJ</name>
                <name>Bernardi, C</name>
                <name>Birmingham, SJ</name>
                <name>Boswell, RLD</name>
                <name>Boyce, SK</name>
                <name>Bushby, DC</name>
                <name>Cash, MC</name>
                <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                <name>Cormann, M</name>
                <name>Edwards, S</name>
                <name>Eggleston, A</name>
                <name>Fawcett, DJ</name>
                <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                <name>Fifield, MP</name>
                <name>Heffernan, W</name>
                <name>Humphries, G</name>
                <name>Johnston, D</name>
                <name>Kroger, H (teller)</name>
                <name>Macdonald, ID</name>
                <name>Madigan, JJ</name>
                <name>Mason, B</name>
                <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                <name>Parry, S</name>
                <name>Payne, MA</name>
                <name>Ronaldson, M</name>
                <name>Ruston, A</name>
                <name>Ryan, SM</name>
                <name>Scullion, NG</name>
                <name>Sinodinos, A</name>
                <name>Smith, D</name>
              </names>
            </ayes>
            <noes>
              <num.votes>36</num.votes>
              <title>NOES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Bilyk, CL</name>
                <name>Bishop, TM</name>
                <name>Cameron, DN</name>
                <name>Carr, KJ</name>
                <name>Collins, JMA</name>
                <name>Crossin, P</name>
                <name>Di Natale, R</name>
                <name>Farrell, D</name>
                <name>Faulkner, J</name>
                <name>Feeney, D</name>
                <name>Furner, ML</name>
                <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                <name>Hogg, JJ</name>
                <name>Lines, S</name>
                <name>Ludlam, S</name>
                <name>Ludwig, JW</name>
                <name>Lundy, KA</name>
                <name>Marshall, GM</name>
                <name>McEwen, A (teller)</name>
                <name>McLucas, J</name>
                <name>Milne, C</name>
                <name>Moore, CM</name>
                <name>Polley, H</name>
                <name>Pratt, LC</name>
                <name>Rhiannon, L</name>
                <name>Siewert, R</name>
                <name>Singh, LM</name>
                <name>Stephens, U</name>
                <name>Sterle, G</name>
                <name>Thistlethwaite, M</name>
                <name>Thorp, LE</name>
                <name>Urquhart, AE</name>
                <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                <name>Wright, PL</name>
              </names>
            </noes>
            <pairs>
              <num.votes>0</num.votes>
              <title>PAIRS</title>
              <names></names>
            </pairs>
          </division.data>
          <division.result>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
            </body>
          </division.result>
        </division><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:29</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKENZIE</name>
    <name.id>207825</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a short statement.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>7L6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Leave is granted for one minute.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKENZIE</name>
    <name.id>207825</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I would like the Senate to note that over the last two days the Labor Party, along with their alliance partners the Greens, have voted against noting three international agreements that we are signatories to and that support sustainable environmental protection. I think it is worth noting. They are: CITES, the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora; the Convention on Biological Diversity; and the Convention on Wetlands of International Importance, the Ramsar convention.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Infrastructure and Transport Funding: Roe Highway</title>
          <page.no>4251</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:30</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LUDLAM</name>
    <name.id>I07</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) notes:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) Stage 8 of the Roe Highway:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (A) threatens the Beeliar wetlands and its regionally significant vegetation, banksia woodlands and the habitat of fauna, migratory birds and the endangered Carnaby cockatoo, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (B) would dissect North Lake and Bibra Lake, recognised as valuable biodiversity sites by all three levels of government, and one of the most significant Aboriginal historical sites within the Perth metropolitan area south of the Swan River, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) the Western Australian Environment Protection Authority received 449 submissions, 29 from organisations and government agencies and 420 from the public opposing Stage 8 of the Roe Highway extension; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) calls on all political parties to:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) recognise widespread community opposition for this project, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) affirm that Commonwealth funding for this project will not be forthcoming.</para></quote>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>7L6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the motion moved by Senator Ludlam be agreed to.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
          <division.header>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [12:31]<br />(The President—Senator Hogg)</p>
            </body>
          </division.header>
          <division.data>
            <ayes>
              <num.votes>36</num.votes>
              <title>AYES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Bilyk, CL</name>
                <name>Bishop, TM</name>
                <name>Cameron, DN</name>
                <name>Carr, KJ</name>
                <name>Collins, JMA</name>
                <name>Crossin, P</name>
                <name>Di Natale, R</name>
                <name>Farrell, D</name>
                <name>Faulkner, J</name>
                <name>Feeney, D</name>
                <name>Furner, ML</name>
                <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                <name>Hogg, JJ</name>
                <name>Lines, S</name>
                <name>Ludlam, S</name>
                <name>Ludwig, JW</name>
                <name>Lundy, KA</name>
                <name>Marshall, GM</name>
                <name>McEwen, A (teller)</name>
                <name>McLucas, J</name>
                <name>Milne, C</name>
                <name>Moore, CM</name>
                <name>Polley, H</name>
                <name>Pratt, LC</name>
                <name>Rhiannon, L</name>
                <name>Siewert, R</name>
                <name>Singh, LM</name>
                <name>Stephens, U</name>
                <name>Sterle, G</name>
                <name>Thistlethwaite, M</name>
                <name>Thorp, LE</name>
                <name>Urquhart, AE</name>
                <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                <name>Wright, PL</name>
              </names>
            </ayes>
            <noes>
              <num.votes>31</num.votes>
              <title>NOES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Abetz, E</name>
                <name>Back, CJ</name>
                <name>Bernardi, C</name>
                <name>Birmingham, SJ</name>
                <name>Boswell, RLD</name>
                <name>Boyce, SK</name>
                <name>Bushby, DC</name>
                <name>Cash, MC</name>
                <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                <name>Cormann, M</name>
                <name>Edwards, S</name>
                <name>Eggleston, A</name>
                <name>Fawcett, DJ</name>
                <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                <name>Fifield, MP</name>
                <name>Heffernan, W</name>
                <name>Humphries, G</name>
                <name>Johnston, D</name>
                <name>Kroger, H (teller)</name>
                <name>Macdonald, ID</name>
                <name>Madigan, JJ</name>
                <name>Mason, B</name>
                <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                <name>Parry, S</name>
                <name>Payne, MA</name>
                <name>Ronaldson, M</name>
                <name>Ruston, A</name>
                <name>Ryan, SM</name>
                <name>Scullion, NG</name>
                <name>Sinodinos, A</name>
                <name>Smith, D</name>
              </names>
            </noes>
            <pairs>
              <num.votes>0</num.votes>
              <title>PAIRS</title>
              <names></names>
            </pairs>
          </division.data>
          <division.result>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to.</p>
            </body>
          </division.result>
        </division></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>4252</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Environment and Communications References Committee</title>
          <page.no>4252</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Reference</title>
            <page.no>4252</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:34</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LUDLAM</name>
    <name.id>I07</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the following matter be referred to the Environment and Communications References Committee for inquiry and report by 30 June 2014:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The benefits and risks of the uranium mining industry and the adequacy of federal regulation of the sector, including:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) the extent and means through which the findings of the October 2003 Senate inquiry that the uranium sector is characterised by a pattern of underperformance and non-compliance, an absence of reliable data to measure the extent of contamination or its impact on the environment and an operational culture that gives greater weight to short term than long term considerations have been addressed;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) an assessment of the wide variance in predictions of future growth estimates of uranium exports and nuclear power;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) an assessment of the adequacy of Australian standards and responsibilities in supplying uranium to Japan and the Tokyo Electric Power Company [TEPCO] where demonstrably inadequate regulation was evident;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(d) the Government’s efforts to address recommendations and issues raised in the September 2011 United Nations (UN) system-wide study on the implications of the accident at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(e) an assessment of the adequacy of environmental practices, including security fencing and warning signs to prevent access to land and waters contaminated by exploration and mining activities;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(f) an assessment of the adequacy of worker and community health and safety at uranium mine sites;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(g) the impacts, benefits and costs of uranium mines for Aboriginal people;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(h) an assessment of whether the exemptions for the uranium industry from Aboriginal heritage, environment and water legislation are necessary or justifiable;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) the preparedness and resourcing of regional emergency contingency planning for accidents and incidents, including education and training services;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(j) an evaluation of the frequency and severity of transport and handling accidents and the process of issuing and auditing compliance with transport radiation management plans;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(k) the performance and scope of the Australian Safeguards and Non Proliferation Office, including its capacity to fulfil its role with current human and budgetary resources;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(l) the proliferation risks associated with a policy of programmatic open ended permissions for reprocessing Australian uranium rather than a case by case policy;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(m) an assessment of the compliance of Australian uranium companies operating overseas with regard to occupational health and safety and environmental standards and laws; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(o) other relevant related matters.</para></quote>
<para>Question negatived.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>MOTIONS</title>
        <page.no>4253</page.no>
        <type>MOTIONS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Myanmar</title>
          <page.no>4253</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:35</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LUDLAM</name>
    <name.id>I07</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) notes:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) the ethnic and sectarian unrest in parts of Myanmar, including in the states of Rakhine, Kachin and Shan, in the Mandalay, Bago, and Yangon regions,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) that in Rakhine State in particular, this has created significant humanitarian concerns given the current monsoon season,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(iii) that Human Rights Watch recently released a report on the unrest in Rakhine State in 2012 and the situation of Rohingya Muslims there,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(iv) That the Australian Government continues to assist affected people in Rakhine State through direct humanitarian assistance, and in 2012-13 provided over $5.79 million in humanitarian assistance to Rakhine State, making Australia one of the largest donors to the crisis, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(v) That the Myanmar Government and the Kachin Independence Organisation recently reached an agreement on 30 May 2013 following peace talks in Myitkyina (Kachin State), to de-escalate and cease hostilities; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) calls on the Australian Government to:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) urge the Myanmar Government to:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (A) redouble its efforts to resolve ethnic and sectarian unrest in parts of Myanmar,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (B) resolve the underlying causes of unrest,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (C) bring to justice those responsible,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (D) ensure proper judicial procedures are applied, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (E) support the reconciliation of local communities, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) continue to urge the Myanmar Government to provide appropriate humanitarian assistance, including adequate shelter, and access by humanitarian organisations, to those affected by the unrest.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:36</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McEWEN</name>
    <name.id>e5e</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to move to amend the motion moved by Senator Ludlam.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McEWEN</name>
    <name.id>e5e</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Omit paragraph (b), substitute:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) urges the Myanmar Government to:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) redouble its efforts to resolve ethnic and sectarian unrest in parts of Myanmar,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) resolve the underlying causes of unrest,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(iii) bring to justice those responsible,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(iv) ensure proper judicial procedures are applied,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(v) support the reconciliation of local communities; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(vi) provide appropriate humanitarian assistance, including adequate shelter, and access by humanitarian organisations, to those affected by the unrest.</para></quote>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>7L6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the amendment moved by Senator McEwen be agreed to.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>7L6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question now is that the motion as amended be agreed to.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Shale Gas</title>
          <page.no>4254</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:37</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LUDLAM</name>
    <name.id>I07</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) notes:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) Western Australia has the fifth largest reserve of shale gas in the world, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) the Western Australian Government is providing significant subsidies and royalty reductions to incentivise the gas fracking while failing to establish environmental assessment processes to assess its impact on groundwater, environmental integrity and agricultural productivity; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) calls on the Government to:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) explain why the Commonwealth Government deems coal seam gas dangerous to ground water and agricultural productivity but not shale gas fracking, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) amend the Environment Protection and Biodiversity Conservation Amendment Bill 2013 to apply equivalent Commonwealth regulatory oversight to shale gas as coal seam gas.</para></quote>
<para>Question negatived.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Hansard Services</title>
          <page.no>4254</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:38</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator MILNE</name>
    <name.id>ka5</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) notes:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) the concern of Hansard editors about their trial changes which have reduced their presence in the Senate and House of Representatives chambers, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) that this trial, if made permanent, has a number of serious implications for the social, legal and historical value of Hansard in the future; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) calls on the Presiding Officers to:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) not make decisions which adversely affect or compromise the quality of Hansard services, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) ensure that the integrity and quality of Hansard is their foremost consideration.</para></quote>
<para>Question negatived.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Dampier Archipelago</title>
          <page.no>4254</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:38</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LUDLAM</name>
    <name.id>I07</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) notes that:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) over one year ago the Australian Heritage Council found that the 30 000 year old rock art complex on the Dampier Archipelago and Burrup Peninsula met two World Heritage criteria, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) construction of the Yara Pilbara Nitrates ammonium nitrate plant began in November 2012, in breach of approval conditions under the <inline font-style="italic">Environment Protection and Biodiversity Conservation Act 1999</inline>, as a survey of rock art within a 2 km radius of the site has not been completed and no air quality monitoring instruments are in place; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) calls on the Minister to:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) commit to taking all necessary steps to have the Dampier Archipelago, which includes the Dampier Archipelago Rock Art Province with its uninterrupted rock art collection spanning 30 000 years, placed on the World Heritage List by 2016,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) confirm That the Dampier Archipelago is on the Tentative List for World Heritage Nomination, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(iii) urgently suspend construction of the Yara Pilbara Burrup Nitrates ammonium nitrate production facility until approval conditions are met.</para></quote>
<para>Question negatived.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Sleep Health Foundation</title>
          <page.no>4254</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:39</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator MADIGAN</name>
    <name.id>217571</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I, and also on behalf of Senators Xenophon, Smith and Di Natale, move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) notes that:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) the Sleep Health Foundation is one of Australia's foremost authorities on sleep disorders and their effects,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) the Foundation aims to raise public awareness of sleep health issues and to improve public health and safety through the treatment of sleep disorders and sleep deprivation, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(iii) the Foundation's report, <inline font-style="italic">Re-awakening Australia: The economic cost of sleep disorders in Australia, 2010 </inline>(dated October 2011) estimates the total cost of sleep disorders on the Australian health system in 2010 at $5.1 billion, with a broader economic cost to the community of $31.4 billion;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) recognises that reducing the incidence of sleep disorders and sleep deprivation would have a positive effect on the wellbeing of the Australian community as well as on the economy; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) calls on the Government to review the findings of the Foundation's study and consider the inclusion of sleep health issues as part of a broader preventive health strategy.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>REGULATIONS AND DETERMINATIONS</title>
        <page.no>4255</page.no>
        <type>REGULATIONS AND DETERMINATIONS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Social Security (Administration) (Vulnerable Welfare Payment Recipient) Principles 2013</title>
          <page.no>4255</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Disallowance</title>
            <page.no>4255</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:41</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SIEWERT</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Social Security (Administration) (Vulnerable Welfare Payment Recipient) Principles 2013, made under subsection 123UGA(2) of the <inline font-style="italic">Social Security (Administration) Act 1999</inline>, be disallowed.</para></quote>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>7L6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the motion moved by Senator Siewert be agreed to.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [12:45]<br />(The President—Senator Hogg)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>9</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Di Natale, R</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                  <name>Ludlam, S</name>
                  <name>Milne, C</name>
                  <name>Rhiannon, L</name>
                  <name>Siewert, R (teller)</name>
                  <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                  <name>Wright, PL</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>44</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Bernardi, C</name>
                  <name>Bilyk, CL</name>
                  <name>Birmingham, SJ</name>
                  <name>Bishop, TM</name>
                  <name>Boswell, RLD</name>
                  <name>Boyce, SK</name>
                  <name>Brown, CL</name>
                  <name>Cameron, DN</name>
                  <name>Cash, MC</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                  <name>Collins, JMA</name>
                  <name>Crossin, P</name>
                  <name>Edwards, S</name>
                  <name>Eggleston, A</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D</name>
                  <name>Faulkner, J</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, DJ</name>
                  <name>Feeney, D</name>
                  <name>Fifield, MP</name>
                  <name>Furner, ML</name>
                  <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                  <name>Hogg, JJ</name>
                  <name>Kroger, H (teller)</name>
                  <name>Lines, S</name>
                  <name>Ludwig, JW</name>
                  <name>Lundy, KA</name>
                  <name>Madigan, JJ</name>
                  <name>Marshall, GM</name>
                  <name>McEwen, A</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                  <name>McLucas, J</name>
                  <name>Moore, CM</name>
                  <name>Polley, H</name>
                  <name>Pratt, LC</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A</name>
                  <name>Scullion, NG</name>
                  <name>Singh, LM</name>
                  <name>Sinodinos, A</name>
                  <name>Smith, D</name>
                  <name>Stephens, U</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G</name>
                  <name>Thorp, LE</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, AE</name>
                  <name>Xenophon, N</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names></names>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division></subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BILLS</title>
        <page.no>4255</page.no>
        <type>BILLS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Family Assistance and Other Legislation Amendment Bill 2013</title>
          <page.no>4255</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" style="" background="" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint">
            <a type="Bill" href="r4975">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Family Assistance and Other Legislation Amendment Bill 2013</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>4255</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:49</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak on the Family Assistance and Other Legislation Amendment Bill 2013. This bill seeks to bring in to effect the government's changes to the baby bonus announced in the Mid-Year Economic and Fiscal Outlook 2012-13. The bill also makes a number of other amendments to family assistance and social security payments. I intend to focus my remarks on the baby bonus.</para>
<para>The baby bonus is something that has been under attack by this government for some time. The government has repeatedly slashed the baby bonus in an attempt to find savings. In the 2009-10 federal budget, Labor paused the indexation of the upper income limit of the baby bonus at $75,000. In the Mid-Year Economic and Fiscal Outlook of 2011-12, the government paused the indexation of the baby bonus payment until 2014-15 and reduced the rate of payment from $5,437 to $5,000. In the 2012-13 Mid-Year Economic and Fiscal Outlook, the government announced its intention to reduce the baby bonus from $5,000 to $3,000 effective from 1 July 2013. However, as we all know, since then government has been engulfed by yet another budget emergency of its own making and has decided to abolish the baby bonus to save $1.1 billion over the forward estimates. In its place from 1 March 2014, families who are eligible for family tax benefit part A and who are not accessing parental leave will receive an additional loading on their payment. The extra family tax benefit part A payment will provide $2,000 for a family's first child and for each child in a multiple birth and $1,000 for second and subsequent children.</para>
<para>It is pretty clear that Australian families are losing out because of this government's complete and utter incapacity to manage the budget of the Commonwealth. The government is ripping money away from Australian families, in effect, to attempt to cover part of the cost of this reckless spending. The baby bonus was introduced for very important public policy reasons. That is pretty straightforward. Australia needs to maintain a high fertility rate. That is critical to our long-term prosperity.</para>
<para>The reality was reflected in the <inline font-style="italic">Intergenerational report</inline>, which was such an important, seminal document when it was first released. That report identified that there were three things that Australia needed to do to ensure its future prosperity. It needed to ensure the population continued to grow, that participation in the Australian economy was there for as many people as possible, and that productivity was increased in Australia. Those were what are often referred to as the three p's: population, participation and productivity. That really was at the heart of the motivation behind the baby bonus. The baby bonus had quite a significant effect in lifting the fertility rate of Australia. That is important, because once a nation's fertility rate declines it is very hard to elevate it again. So the baby bonus was quite successful.</para>
<para>If the coalition were in government we would have a different starting point today, compared to where the current government is, because we would have taken different decisions over the course of that period in government. The abolition of the baby bonus is not a decision that we would have taken if we were in government because, as I said, we would have managed the budget differently and had a different starting point. We recognise that the government has completely and utterly trashed the Commonwealth's budget, and for that reason the coalition—although in government we would not be making this decision—will not be opposing this bill.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:54</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator MADIGAN</name>
    <name.id>217571</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I wish to speak against this bill in order to record my opposition to yet further erosion of assistance to families. The cuts to the baby bonus are uncalled for. Also, the payment of the baby bonus at a lower level for second and subsequent babies perpetuates the myth that children are cheaper by the dozen. The reality is that the birth of the second and subsequent children brings about additional financial pressure on families. They face increased costs in child care, housing and transport.</para>
<para>For over 30 years, governments of both persuasions have departed from the concept of horizontal equity for families and they have reduced families to welfare recipients. I still believe that families are the basic units of society. They make a huge contribution, not just in raising their own children but in forming the citizens of tomorrow. Unfortunately, this is no longer seen as an important social function. Having children is viewed as a private decision. If it is a private decision then you are entirely responsible for funding it.</para>
<para>The reduction of the baby bonus in this bill demonstrates that the government no longer believes that children are an investment in the nation's future. Children have been reduced to a commodity for which the user pays. 'If you cannot afford them do not have them; we don't care.' That is the message that this bill gives to families.</para>
<para>All families ought to receive some financial recognition for their contribution to society in raising tomorrow's citizens. And low-income families ought to receive additional financial assistance because no child ought to be raised in poverty. Investment in children is an investment in the future, and all parents deserve tax recognition for this important role. Wage earners are now treated as independent individuals with no dependants—a triumph of rampant individualism. Having children makes you an economic basket case.</para>
<para>Until the 1970s the tax system took into account the number of dependants that the wage earner provided for before taxing them. The government recognised that supporting families was an investment in the future—not any more. Families are no longer seen as productive social units but as drains on the public purse and as recipients of welfare. The fact that assistance to families is subject to strict income tests means that only low-income families receive financial assistance. It is demeaning for some families to be singled out—by being reduced to welfare recipients—as unable to support their dependants. I believe our economy is best served by looking after families and communities first. Unfortunately, this is not the message that this bill gives families. As such, I will be voting against the bill.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:57</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BOYCE</name>
    <name.id>H6V</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>This legislation is, yet again, one of those efforts this government have made to desperately try to come up with a surplus, which they had promised over and over and never delivered. They finally had to admit, under former Treasurer Swan, in November last year, that they were incapable of doing that.</para>
<para>I think we only need to look at the reports that were produced by the Senate Standing Committees on Community Affairs when this bill was given to them to assess, to understand how poorly this government has gone about its job. We have a report from the government and a dissenting report from the coalition on this subject. The government report says that NATSEM researcher 'Bob Phillips' had been reported as considering that the baby bonus was significantly higher than the up-front costs of having a baby and was therefore not well targeted.</para>
<para>For a start, I would point out to the government and Greens members of that committee that the NATSEM researcher involved was not Bob Phillips but Ben Phillips. His research, which is not quoted directly but was quoted second-hand from a story in the <inline font-style="italic">Australian </inline>newspaper in February this year, demonstrates again how little time the secretariats, the government, the opposition—anybody here—has to assess this government's legislation and performance. But the main problem with this government's attempt to reduce the baby bonus for second and subsequent children from $5,000 to $3,000 is that the government does not understand the purpose of the baby bonus.</para>
<para>A baby bonus assists families in paying for the costs of a child. But it was instigated by Treasurer Peter Costello in the Howard government to boost population, to boost replacement levels in Australia of young people. We still face the situation that Treasurer Costello was the first to identify of a massive number of baby boomers and an ever-decreasing number of taxpayers to support those baby boomers. The superannuation system will assist here but it will not fix it. We need to continue to develop taxpayers. While we can and do import taxpayers, we need also to grow taxpayers. The baby bonus was very successful initially at encouraging the birth rate to rise. But, given that the government has fiddled with this again and again, we anticipate that that is not going to happen any longer.</para>
<para>To suggest that somehow because a second or subsequent child might—and I emphasise the word 'might'—be cheaper than the first child is irrelevant. It is interesting to look at some of the material provided by Family Voice, who made the point that you might have to buy a second cot because, unless the space between your children is fairly large, the oldest will not be ready to move into a bed before the second child is born. And I do not really think that it is up to the government to start social engineering in terms of when you provide the money and when you do not.</para>
<para>But the point is that it is not really about paying for the cost of a baby. I cannot believe any suggestions from literature that the upfront costs of having a baby are not more than $5,000. They are more than $5,000. The only people who would not have to fork out more than $5,000 for their first child and close to $5,000 for their second and third children would be people who are lucky enough to have family to pay for some of the products that you need to buy when you have a child. When you look at the list of things that you need for a child, it does not take long to reach $5,000. But this is not the reason that this is happening.</para>
<para>If you look at the material from Mr Ben Phillips, he makes the point that the cost of having a child overall is massive. He points out that for a lower income family with two children the overall cost of raising those children is $474,000. For middle income families it is $812,000. For higher income families, it is $1,097,000. Here we have the ridiculous situation of this government thinking that whether a child is the first or second or subsequent child is somehow relevant to the cost of raising them. It is not. There is absolutely nothing there to suggest that.</para>
<para>The coalition members of the community affairs committee were very concerned about the potential economic impact of Labor's ongoing cuts to the baby bonus. In their submission to the committee, Family Voice Australia highlighted data from the ABS identifying the percentage of women who were having three or more children as a key driver for our below-replacement-level total fertility rate. The fertility rate in Australia has declined from 54 per cent in 1976 to 32.6 per cent in 2006. We are currently having 1.8 babies per woman, which is well below the replacement fertility rate that we need of 2.1. As I said, migration can assist with building our population. But it cannot do it by itself. If you go back to the first <inline font-style="italic">Intergenerational </inline><inline font-style="italic">r</inline><inline font-style="italic">eport</inline> commissioned by Treasurer Peter Costello in 2000, you will see that we would have to have a migration rate in the millions to build the sort of population that we really need to support elderly Australians as that boom develops. This needs to happen through a balance between migration and local Australian-born children.</para>
<para>The removal of this incentive to have two or more children will have a very detrimental impact on our economic development. The whole point of the baby bonus was to boost fertility rates. Yes, it assisted people with the cost of children. But it was about boosting fertility rates; that is what it was there for. And that is what it succeeded in doing. Labor has tried to rationalise these cuts by arguing that the costs associated with second and subsequent children are less than for firstborn children. This goes against the practical experience, as I said, of many Australian families. By seeking to argue that the costs of second and subsequent children are reduced because items of clothing and equipment can be handed down, Labor demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding of the financial pressures faced by parents and of the practical realities of raising children. As I said, many families will end up with two cots, not just one. One thing in the report that the coalition did agree with was that most people would like to have more children than they end up raising and that one of the most important considerations when people are planning children is being able to afford to raise the child. Whilst a $2,000 cut in the baby bonus for a child might be something this government can get away with in political terms, it is yet another example of its very poor ability to manage Australia's policies, to manage Australia's future and to understand our future.</para>
<para>I want to continue to make that point about the fertility rate. In the late 1970s the decline in our fertility rate started to slow down, until it reached 1.73 babies per woman in 2001. From 2002, when Treasurer Costello introduced the baby bonus, the total fertility rate increased, reaching 1.96 babies per woman in 2008—the highest recorded since 1977. It has since decreased from 1.96 to 1.89 babies per woman in 2010. I would suggest that much of that is around the fiddling that this government has done in all areas of assisting families. The fiddling with the family assistance material has been appalling. Firstly, in 2008-09 Labor introduced a means test so that families who earned more than $75,000 in the six months after the birth or adoption did not receive the funds. And of course, in typical form, this was introduced less than nine months after it was announced, so people who had actually planned on using the baby bonus were unable to, because it cut out when they got to six months. The government went on to index it, paused the indexation and then cut the rate again for younger children. It is part of an appalling record in terms of supporting those who need it most in Australia, and I think we need to consider this carefully.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0T</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The time for consideration of this bill has expired. The question is that this bill now be read a second time.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a second time.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Third Reading</title>
            <page.no>4259</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:10</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0T</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the remaining stages of this bill be agreed to and that this bill now be passed.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a third time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Migration Amendment (Offshore Resources Activity) Bill 2013</title>
          <page.no>4259</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" style="" background="" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint">
            <a type="Bill" href="r5086">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Migration Amendment (Offshore Resources Activity) Bill 2013</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>4259</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:10</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CASH</name>
    <name.id>I0M</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Migration Amendment (Offshore Resources Activity) Bill 2013, like another bill we have already debated this morning in this place, is yet another test for Mr Rudd within the first 24 hours of his being redrafted by the Labor government to be Prime Minister of Australia. Mr Rudd, when he was redrafted last night to again be the Prime Minister, made certain statements to the Australian people. He has continued to make those statements today—statements to the effect that he will be looking for a new direction for the Australian Labor Party. I hope Mr Rudd is smart enough to know that unless the Labor Party changes its policies there is going to be no change in the rot that has set in. A leadership change for the Australian Labor Party is not enough if you are going to continue to follow the same failed policies.</para>
<para>The bill we currently have before us is an example of a piece of legislation that was drafted by now former Prime Minster Gillard in conjunction with her very, very good mate from the union—who just happens to also be the Minister for Immigration and Citizenship—Minister O'Connor. And it is not for the national interest, not as a bill that would do anything to further the offshore resources activity within Australia. It is a bill that was drafted under instruction with little to no consultation with those who will actually be affected by the legislation if it passes through this place. It is the perfect opportunity for Mr Rudd to actually stump up and this time abide by his word to the Australian people. He has said he wants a change. Well, Mr Rudd—Mr Prime Minister, as you are now; you were the former Prime Minister and the former foreign minister, and you were merely a backbencher, but today you have been sworn in and you are now the current Prime Minister of this country—this is the perfect example of a piece of legislation that you should have taken instructions on this morning and should never, ever have allowed to come before the Senate.</para>
<para>In allowing this legislation to come before the Senate today, in allowing this legislation to be debated, in allowing this legislation to ultimately pass through this place, what Mr Rudd is saying to the Australian people is that last night all that happened in the Australian Labor Party was a change of leadership. Despite his statements to the Australian people last night, despite what he went on TV and said to the Australian people again this morning, Mr Rudd has no intention at all to do anything differently. If Mr Rudd had intended, as he said last night, to change the policy direction of the Australian Labor Party and—to quote him—to now start 'cooking with gas', there has already been one bill this morning that he failed the test on, and that was in relation to temporary protection visas. Mr Rudd was the architect of the unwinding of the former Howard government's proven border protection policies. This morning we presented Mr Rudd with an opportunity to say, 'I will change the policy direction of the Australian Labor Party and I will put back in place what I previously unwound.' But Mr Rudd and the Australian Labor Party, when presented with an opportunity to change direction—when presented with an opportunity to acknowledge to the Australian people that a leadership change means nothing without a policy change—failed that test.</para>
<para>Just a few hours later, this Migration Amendment (Offshore Resources Activity) Bill presents the Labor Party with a second opportunity to say to the Australian people: 'We are not beholden to Ms Gillard, the former Prime Minister of this country. We are not beholden to the deals she did with Minister O'Connor. We acknowledge that there was little or no consultation with industry about the impacts of this bill.' But the mere fact that we are standing here today debating this bill is evidence that under Mr Rudd, now Prime Minister of Australia, nothing has changed.</para>
<para>I participated in the very brief Senate inquiry into this bill one week ago. When I say 'very brief', I mean it quite literally, because this Labor government completely failed to properly adhere to the processes of the Senate. Two bills were referred to the Senate Legal and Constitutional Affairs Legislation Committee—the other bill had to be withdrawn from the agenda because the Labor Party had been unable to get it through the other place. After the two bills were referred to committee, submitters were given less than 24 hours to get their submissions in—and these are on bills which are exceptionally contentious, about which there is a fundamental ideological difference between the two parties and which will have quite a severe impact on industry. On the Friday, 24 hours later, the Senate committee met. We had a few hours in the morning to deal with the 457 bill and then we had about 2½ hours in the afternoon to deal with this bill. We then tabled our report on the Tuesday. Even in that very short inquiry, however, some very serious considerations were raised by industry both about the stated purpose of this bill and about what its actual implications are.</para>
<para>The stated purpose of the bill is to regulate foreign workers participating in offshore resources activities by bringing those activities into the migration zone, meaning that workers would therefore be required, under the Migration Act, to hold a visa. In the second reading speech, the minister made some claims—very loose claims, let me assure you. I would liken those claims to the same minister's claims about the alleged rorts in the 457 program. This is the same minister, Minister O'Connor, who is well known for his position on the 457 program: he does not like foreign workers and he will do anything to stop the supply of foreign labour to this country. He went so far as to claim that there had been 10,000 rorts in the 457 visa program. When the minister was challenged by the coalition and by industry, do you know what the minister ultimately had to admit? He said—and I am quoting him here—that he had made that number up.</para>
<para>This is a minister who makes up claims about particular pieces of legislation merely because he has done a deal with his mates in the CFMEU in relation to the 457 visa legislation, and he wants to blatantly mislead the Australian public on whether or not there are rorts occurring in the 457 visa program. This is the same minister who, on the day that the Senate held an inquiry into both of the bills, the one before the Senate and the one that has not quite made it to the Senate and has not been debated, who, while industry was giving evidence in relation to the labour market impact and testing arrangements of the 457 bill, which are going to be exceptionally severe, was at a skilled migration conference in Melbourne answering a question from industry in relation to what labour market testing is, saying that labour market testing is merely putting an ad in the paper. When I asked the department whether what the minister said in relation to labour market testing was correct—that it is merely putting an ad in the paper, nothing more and nothing less, and 24 hours later the employer is able to start employing foreign labour—do you know what the department said? That the minister had no basis upon which to make his claims.</para>
<para>This is the same minister who also said that this bill would overcome a so-called loophole identified in the Allseas case which needed to be closed. A close reading of the Allseas case—the minister clearly did not bother to read that case, but he did not need to because the case did not serve the purpose the minister needed it to serve, which was basically to make up misleading statements in relation to this bill—does not show that there is a loophole; in fact, far from it. There is no loophole at all that needs to be closed.</para>
<para>Another failure of the minister is in the lack of consultation. As I previously stated, this bill and the 457 visa bill were literally given to the Senate Legal and Constitutional Affairs Legislation Committee one day, emails went out from the secretariat that night, at a very strange time, and submitters were given less than 24 hours to read the legislation, consider the Allseas case, which is quite a complex and technical case, and then provide a submission to the Senate inquiry. The minister states that there was consultation, but that is not the evidence of those from industry directly involved in international shipping who appeared before the Senate inquiry. In fact, the contrary is true. If consultation on this bill had occurred, there is a very good chance that the bill would not be being debated at the moment, because the minister would have seen the error of his ways. But there was no consultation and so the minister did not have the benefit of what industry thought.</para>
<para>The minister also failed to provide documentation to show that the bill meets Australia's international obligations as they apply to the laws of the sea. Any person who has had anything to do with the laws of the sea will know that this is without doubt one of the most complex areas of law that lawyers and policymakers will ever deal with. Some very serious issues were raised in the few submissions that were able to be presented to the Senate inquiry, and they related to whether or not the bill does comply with our international obligations under the laws of the sea. That is actually very serious. If the Senate passes this bill today, there is a very good chance that we are going to be passing a piece of legislation that is in conflict with Australia's international obligations as they apply to the laws of the sea. That is a great state to be in, isn't it? The Senate is not properly informed of what our international obligations are and whether or not a piece of legislation has been properly drafted so as to comply with them.</para>
<para>Again, what does that say about those on the other side? It says this: the bill was never drafted to comply with our international obligations. That was not even given a thought by those on the other side in relation to this bill, because, again, it was drafted under former Prime Minister Gillard, who gave instructions to Minister O'Connor to go out and draft legislation that would respond directly to the claims that had been made by the Maritime Union of Australia about extending that union's reach to people who work on ships internationally and may come into Australian waters.</para>
<para>That is all this bill is about, and I hope that no-one in this place thinks that this bill has any other stated purpose. This is all about Minister O'Connor and former Prime Minister Gillard ramming through this place, with little or no consultation at all, legislation that is going to assist their mates in the Maritime Union of Australia. Why do I say that? Because the legislation actually addresses each of the concerns raised by the Maritime Union of Australia and fails in any way to go anywhere near the concerns—the very, very serious concerns—that were raised by industry, that were raised by those people who deal on a daily basis with international law as it applies to the sea. This is what the MUA said about the bill in its submission to the committee inquiry:</para>
<list>It closes … an unintended gap in the Migration Act 1958 …</list>
<para>As I said, any person who actually bothered to read the Allseas case and the judgement in that case would know that that is just completely wrong. The MUA continued:</para>
<list>It provided certainty for the workforce, resource owners, and operators and contractors.</list>
<para>Again, anybody who has bothered to read the submissions that industry put in on the issue of certainty would also know—oops!—the MUA got that one as wrong as well. It goes on:</para>
<list>It creates a level playing field so that all workers, irrespective of origin, can now have their migration status … and … employment standards regulated.</list>
<para>There you go. That is the key in relation to this bill: the MUA wants control over a group of workers that it currently does not have any control over. That is the sole purpose of this bill, as drafted under Minister O'Connor's instructions. The MUA also said:</para>
<list>It will end the exploitation of temporary guest workers in the offshore oil and gas industry, and will ensure that employment, safety, training and occupational licensing requirements can be brought up to Australian legal and industrial standards.</list>
<para>I say to the minister: clearly, again, you are not au fait with the international law surrounding the laws of the sea, because, if you were, you would already know we comply with that.</para>
<para>The MUA also said that the bill will provide the government with the capacity to monitor non-nationals working on critical resource projects. Well, this would be the problem, because one of the things that the bill may well do is not provide the government with the capacity to monitor non-nationals working on critical resource projects—because the very clear evidence from industry was: 'Guess what? We don't have to come to Australia. We can actually stay in another port and we can accept another contract elsewhere, in a country that is not going to stitch us up in relation to the international laws of the sea.' That was the evidence of industry. It is as easy as that: 'We don't have to come to Australia if we don't want to.'</para>
<para>So much for the government drafting a piece of legislation that it says, or the MUA has requested, will provide the government with the capacity to monitor non-nationals working on critical resource projects, because based on the evidence of industry there may well not be any of those non-nationals. That is because industry, just like in relation to the carbon tax, says, 'If you keep on whacking us with additional regulation, guess what, we have no obligation to do any business in Australia at all and we will go elsewhere.' That is what industry says.</para>
<para>It is very clear from the evidence of a number of affected parties, in the very short time that they had to respond and provide a submission to the Senate inquiry, that the minister failed to consult adequately with industry and that the limited consultation that the minister claims occurred was limited to amorphous concepts and principles that preceded the drafting of the bill. The bill itself is nothing more and nothing less than a union response by the minister for immigration directly to his union mates in the MUA.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:30</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BOYCE</name>
    <name.id>H6V</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Here we go again: another bill, another gag. I will restricting my remarks to allow Senator Humphries the time to speak on this migration amendment legislation as well. He was involved in the very short inquiry that was held into the Migration Amendment (Offshore Resources Activity) Bill, which Senator Cash has told us about. The evidence that was taken in that inquiry makes it obvious that this is about a payoff to former Prime Minister Gillard's mates in the unions. That is all it is. It is about a pay-off to the unions. There was not even a regulation impact statement proposed on this legislation. Yet, under the Australian government's requirements, when there is a regulatory proposal that is likely to have an impact on business or the not-for-profit sector, unless it is of a minor or machinery nature and does not substantially alter existing arrangements there must be a regulation impact statement.</para>
<para>Why was there not a regulation impact statement? Firstly, I do not think that former Prime Minister Gillard wanted these bills exposed to the scrutiny that might go with a regulation impact statement. Goodness, someone might have actually worked out—as Senator Cash pointed out—that we do not even know, in terms of the overseas aspects of this bill, whether we are breaking the international Law of the Sea by putting this piece of legislation through. We do not know that. Goodness, we would not want a regulation impact statement for the temporary sponsored visas, or it might come out that there is in fact a much simpler and much better way of fixing this. That would be to simply look at the consolidated occupations list that is used and think about how you might amend that. I think that is the way we need to look at this.</para>
<para>If there are problems with the standard consolidated occupations list, for heaven's sake, let us just look at them and think about how we might fix that. I agree with Joanna Howe, writing in <inline font-style="italic">The C</inline><inline font-style="italic">onversation</inline> earlier this week, when she said that the current mechanism for identifying skills shortages is too crude. There are 600 occupations on the consolidated standard occupations list. That is clearly too many. If the government's aim had been to improve the 457 visa system, the way they should have gone about it was to improve that list so that it genuinely represented occupations where there were shortages. It is not a tricky thing to do. It is a good list, it is a contemporary list and it is updated regularly—unlike the clunky labour market testing, which this government wants to put through.</para>
<para>I am reminded that the last time labour market testing was part of the 457 regime in Australia, there were all manner of rumours of rorts by the unions who were conducting the labour market testing for large employers. Particularly in the mining and grazing industries, the unions would—for a fee, of course—suss out whether there were enough local people to do the job or not. Those rumours were rife, particularly throughout Queensland, the last time there was a labour market test.</para>
<para>As Ms Howe pointed out in terms of labour market tests:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The issue with employer-conducted labour market testing is that this won’t stop the rorts of the 457 visa scheme. Good employers already recruit for local workers and when they can’t, they make an application to the department to use the 457 visa scheme. The vast majority of Australian employers are decent, law-abiding men and women who use the 457 visa scheme to fill genuine skill shortages. Nonetheless, bad employers exist.</para></quote>
<para>There are not 10,000 of them, as the minister fantasised about when he was desperately trying to find an excuse for this union-instigated legislation—which should be voted down by anybody with a grain of courage or decency.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:35</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BACK</name>
    <name.id>J7Q</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Madam Acting Deputy President, let me state the facts as they are, because I have knowledge and background in this industry, and inform those on the other side of how dangerous the move is that they are proposing. The simple fact of the matter is that my associates internationally—and these people have enormous experience in the industry and have been working offshore Western Australia—have said to me only in recent weeks that they will never, ever bring their vessels, their crews or their expertise back into Australian waters again. This is the effect of the Migration Amendment (Offshore Resources Activity) Bill.</para>
<para>There never was a problem with 457 workers. In this case, Minister O'Connor went looking for one. He found spurious figures not as a result of those submitted to him by his own department or others; it was a group of figures put to him by a union who are trying to dominate an area over which they do not have the control they want at the moment and, more importantly, an area in which they do not have the expertise. The great value in bringing these workers into our waters is that the skill sets of those in Australia can be elevated. Should this legislation pass, they will be denied that skills development opportunity which, at the moment, they are enjoying. But more importantly—and I say it again; and I cannot say it any more bluntly than this—I was told in my home, in Perth, not three weeks ago by a person who is regarded in the world as the leader in the field and who brought crews into Australian waters that, firstly, the project ran over because of interruptions and interferences locally and, secondly, the expertise did not exist here; the expertise came from overseas.</para>
<para>What people must understand in the context of what we are speaking about is that so many of these crews come into Australian waters only briefly to do specific work and then they leave again. There is no way in the world that the international operators or the shipowners are going to agree to a set of conditions that might apply in a place in which they are working for only very limited periods of time. As we move into what is new work in the world—and that is floating LNG—it is going to have its origins in Western Australian waters. If the Shell Prelude project gets underway, instead of all being on board and an opportunity opening for Australians to develop expertise and to be part of a new and emerging industry, we are going to see the short-sighted actions of a union and the incompetence of a minister cause a circumstance in which we will again not have the opportunity to move into this new and emerging world.</para>
<para>I will conclude with a few comments. Only in the last three weeks did I have members of the AMWU come to see me in my office, in Perth, and plead with me to be part of a case in which we can re-establish a shipbuilding industry in our state and in our country. I said to them: 'It's in your hands. If you want to see shipowners and builders bid for projects then come on board and be part of it.' Madam Acting Deputy President, just let me tell you what the competition is. This time last week, a member of my own family was visiting a major shipyard in China, looking at the possible purchase of a large number of vessels. That Chinese shipyard is building 30 vessels a year. Every 10 days they turn out a new vessel, and he tells me it is of the highest quality</para>
<para>That is what we are bidding against if we want to establish a shipbuilding industry to service the offshore oil and gas industries of our state and our country, and if this government and this union want to establish the biggest possible turn-off from that proceeding and from opening new opportunities for employment and skills development then they just need to keep up what they are doing.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>207825</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! The time allotted for consideration of the Migration Amendment (Offshore Resources Activity) Bill 2013 has expired.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>7L6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that this bill be now read a second time.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [13:44]<br />(The President—Senator Hogg)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>38</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Bilyk, CL</name>
                  <name>Bishop, TM</name>
                  <name>Brown, CL</name>
                  <name>Cameron, DN</name>
                  <name>Carr, KJ</name>
                  <name>Carr, RJ</name>
                  <name>Collins, JMA</name>
                  <name>Crossin, P</name>
                  <name>Di Natale, R</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D</name>
                  <name>Feeney, D</name>
                  <name>Furner, ML</name>
                  <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                  <name>Hogg, JJ</name>
                  <name>Lines, S</name>
                  <name>Ludlam, S</name>
                  <name>Ludwig, JW</name>
                  <name>Lundy, KA</name>
                  <name>Marshall, GM</name>
                  <name>McEwen, A</name>
                  <name>McLucas, J</name>
                  <name>Milne, C</name>
                  <name>Moore, CM</name>
                  <name>Polley, H (teller)</name>
                  <name>Pratt, LC</name>
                  <name>Rhiannon, L</name>
                  <name>Siewert, R</name>
                  <name>Singh, LM</name>
                  <name>Stephens, U</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G</name>
                  <name>Thistlethwaite, M</name>
                  <name>Thorp, LE</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, AE</name>
                  <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                  <name>Wright, PL</name>
                  <name>Xenophon, N</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>32</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Abetz, E</name>
                  <name>Back, CJ</name>
                  <name>Bernardi, C</name>
                  <name>Birmingham, SJ</name>
                  <name>Boswell, RLD</name>
                  <name>Boyce, SK</name>
                  <name>Bushby, DC</name>
                  <name>Cash, MC</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                  <name>Cormann, M</name>
                  <name>Edwards, S</name>
                  <name>Eggleston, A</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, DJ</name>
                  <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                  <name>Fifield, MP</name>
                  <name>Heffernan, W</name>
                  <name>Humphries, G</name>
                  <name>Johnston, D</name>
                  <name>Joyce, B</name>
                  <name>Macdonald, ID</name>
                  <name>Madigan, JJ</name>
                  <name>Mason, B</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                  <name>Nash, F</name>
                  <name>Parry, S</name>
                  <name>Payne, MA</name>
                  <name>Ronaldson, M</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A</name>
                  <name>Scullion, NG</name>
                  <name>Sinodinos, A</name>
                  <name>Smith, D</name>
                  <name>Williams, JR (teller)</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>3</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Conroy, SM</name>
                  <name>Ryan, SM</name>
                  <name>Faulkner, J</name>
                  <name>Brandis, GH</name>
                  <name>Wong, P</name>
                  <name>Kroger, </name>
                </names>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to.<br />Bill read a second time.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division></subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Third Reading</title>
            <page.no>4266</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:47</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>7L6</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The question now is that the remaining stages of this bill be agreed to and this bill be now passed.</para>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [13:48]<br />(The President—Senator Hogg)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>38</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Bilyk, CL</name>
                  <name>Bishop, TM</name>
                  <name>Brown, CL</name>
                  <name>Cameron, DN</name>
                  <name>Carr, KJ</name>
                  <name>Carr, RJ</name>
                  <name>Collins, JMA</name>
                  <name>Crossin, P</name>
                  <name>Di Natale, R</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D</name>
                  <name>Feeney, D</name>
                  <name>Furner, ML</name>
                  <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                  <name>Hogg, JJ</name>
                  <name>Lines, S</name>
                  <name>Ludlam, S</name>
                  <name>Ludwig, JW</name>
                  <name>Lundy, KA</name>
                  <name>Madigan, JJ</name>
                  <name>Marshall, GM</name>
                  <name>McLucas, J</name>
                  <name>Milne, C</name>
                  <name>Moore, CM</name>
                  <name>Polley, H (teller)</name>
                  <name>Pratt, LC</name>
                  <name>Rhiannon, L</name>
                  <name>Siewert, R</name>
                  <name>Singh, LM</name>
                  <name>Stephens, U</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G</name>
                  <name>Thistlethwaite, M</name>
                  <name>Thorp, LE</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, AE</name>
                  <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                  <name>Wright, PL</name>
                  <name>Xenophon, N</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>30</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Back, CJ</name>
                  <name>Bernardi, C</name>
                  <name>Birmingham, SJ</name>
                  <name>Boswell, RLD</name>
                  <name>Boyce, SK</name>
                  <name>Bushby, DC</name>
                  <name>Cash, MC</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                  <name>Cormann, M</name>
                  <name>Edwards, S</name>
                  <name>Eggleston, A</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, DJ</name>
                  <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                  <name>Fifield, MP</name>
                  <name>Heffernan, W</name>
                  <name>Humphries, G</name>
                  <name>Johnston, D</name>
                  <name>Joyce, B</name>
                  <name>Macdonald, ID</name>
                  <name>Mason, B</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                  <name>Nash, F</name>
                  <name>Parry, S</name>
                  <name>Payne, MA</name>
                  <name>Ronaldson, M</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A</name>
                  <name>Scullion, NG</name>
                  <name>Sinodinos, A</name>
                  <name>Smith, D</name>
                  <name>Williams, JR (teller)</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>4</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Conroy, SM</name>
                  <name>Ryan, SM</name>
                  <name>Faulkner, J</name>
                  <name>Brandis, GH</name>
                  <name>McEwen, A</name>
                  <name>Abetz, E</name>
                  <name>Wong, P</name>
                  <name>Kroger, </name>
                </names>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to.<br />Bill read a third time.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division></subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Veterans' Affairs Legislation Amendment (Military Compensation Review and Other Measures) Bill 2013</title>
          <page.no>4267</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" style="" background="" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint">
            <a type="Bill" href="r5006">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Veterans' Affairs Legislation Amendment (Military Compensation Review and Other Measures) Bill 2013</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>4267</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:51</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RONALDSON</name>
    <name.id>xt4</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>These are most comprehensive changes to the Military Rehabilitation and Compensation Act 2004, and I just want to put it on the public record that it is an utter disgrace that this chamber has been given four minutes to discuss these, including amendments by my colleague Senator Xenophon. The coalition does support the Veterans' Affairs Legislation Amendment (Military Compensation Review and Other Measures) Bill 2013. The coalition will not be supporting Senator Xenophon's amendments, but I want to make one thing very clear: we support the principle of Senator Xenophon's amendments. Our only concern is in relation to the implementation of them and a legislated change to processing times.</para>
<para>As Senator Xenophon knows, in Senate estimates this matter was pursued. The new secretary of the department has undertaken to investigate the issues surrounding these processing times. At 155 days on average, they are 30 per cent longer than the PBS KPIs, at 120 days. I say to you, Senator Xenophon: if there is a change of government then the coalition will work with you in relation to this issue. Our concerns are that a legislated change at this time may have an impact in relation to potentially unintended consequences or to deliverability. We would work with you in government to address an issue that you and I both share.</para>
<para>I want to enable you to have some time to speak on this. This government is in complete and utter disarray. With four minutes, this is a slap in the face for veterans and for due process. The government stands utterly condemned. Quite frankly, changing leaders does not change a bad government, and veterans will be appalled at the treatment they have received today. I want to give Senator Xenophon at least a minute and a half to speak on his amendments.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:54</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator XENOPHON</name>
    <name.id>8IV</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>It will be less than a minute. I am grateful for the indication of support for the principle of changes to require the department to adhere to time limits in dealing with military compensation claims. This has been triggered by the awful way that Veronica Wadley was treated. I will not be able to speak to these matters. I did speak with Minister Snowdon earlier today and he did indicate that he will be tabling some undertakings in respect of this, but I am very grateful to Senator Ronaldson for the matters that he has raised. This is a farce. I am not going to be able to deal with these matters. It will not do justice to Veronica Wadley and what she went through, and this must never, ever happen again in this chamber. This really is a disgrace when we are dealing with such important legislation.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:54</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I table a document, <inline font-style="italic">Administrative protocols for determining claims under the </inline><inline font-style="italic">Military Rehabilitation a</inline><inline font-style="italic">nd Compensation Act 2004</inline>, which I understand has been the subject of some debate.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>207825</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The time allotted for the remaining stages of the bill has expired. The question is that this bill be now read a second time.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a second time.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>207825</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question now is that amendments (1) and (2) on sheet 7417, as circulated by Senator Xenophon, be agreed to.</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">Senator Xenophon's circulated amendments—</inline></para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Clause 2, page 2 (at the end of the table), add:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) Page 82 (after line 25), at the end of the Bill, add:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Schedule 17—Further amendments</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Military Rehabilitation and Compensation Act 2004</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">1 After section 333</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   Insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">333A Liability for claim must be determined within 120 days in most cases</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Liability for claim must be determined within 120 days in most cases</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Subject to subsection (2) and notwithstanding any other provision of this Act or any other law, the Commission must determine whether the Commission accepts liability for the claim in writing in accordance with this Act within 120 days of the date that the claim was given to the Commission.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Note: The Commission must determine whether it accepts liability for the claim within 120 days of the date that the claim was given to the Commission. The time limit in this subsection applies only for the purposes of determining whether the Commission accepts liability and does not impact the time for calculating the amount of damages or determining the assistance that will be provided. The Commission must determine the claim within the shortest reasonable amount of time.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Extension of time when further information required</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) If, in exceptional circumstances, the Commission requires further information about the claim, the Commission may seek further information in writing from the person making the claim. Where this subsection applies, the Commission is required to determine whether the Commission accepts liability for the claim in writing in accordance with this Act within 180 days of the date that the claim was given to the Commission.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Claim deemed to be rejected</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) Notwithstanding any other provision of this Act or any other law, the Commission is deemed to have rejected a claim made by a person:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (a) where the Commission has yet to determine whether or not it accepts liability for the claim and it has requested further information about the claim under subsection 333A(2) and the person making the claim has responded to that request for further information—on the day that is 180 days after the date that the claim was given to the Commission; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (b) where the Commission has yet to determine whether or not it accepts liability for the claim and it has not requested further information under subsection 333A(2)—on the day that is 120 days after the date that the claim was given to the Commission.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Note: Where a person makes a claim that is subsequently deemed to be rejected, the person may seek to have the claim reconsidered and reviewed under Chapter 8.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Deemed rejection does not apply where request for further information has not been responded to</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(4) Subsection (3) does not apply if the Commission has reasonably requested that a person making a claim provides further necessary information and the person fails to respond to that request for further information.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">2 At the end of section 350</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(4) Notwithstanding any other provision of this Act or any other law, the Commission must make a determination revoking, confirming or varying the original determination:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (a) where the Commission has requested further information about the claim and the person making the claim has responded to that request for further information—on the day that is 60 days after the request to reconsider the original determination was given to the Commission; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (b) where the Commission has not requested further information—on the day that is 30 days after the request to reconsider the original determination was given to the Commission.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Safety, Rehabilitation and Compensation Act 1988</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">3 After section 61</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   Insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">61A Liability for claim must be determined within 120 days in most cases</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Liability for claim must be determined within 120 days in most cases</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) This section applies if:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (a) the person in respect of whom the claim is made is an employee for the purposes of paragraph 6A(1)(a); and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (b) the period for determining each claim for compensation within the period prescribed by the regulations is greater than the period determined under subsection (4).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) Subject to subsection (3) and notwithstanding any other provision of this Act or any other law, the determining authority must determine whether it accepts liability for the claim for compensation in writing within 120 days of the date that the claim was given to the relevant authority.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Note: The determining authority must determine whether it accepts liability for the claim within 120 days of the date that the claim was given to the relevant authority. The time limit in this subsection applies only for the purposes of determining whether the determining authority accepts liability and does not impact the time for calculating the amount of damages or determining the assistance that will be provided. The determining authority must determine the claim within the shortest reasonable amount of time.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Extension of time when further information required</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) If, in exceptional circumstances, the determining authority requires further information about the claim, the determining authority may seek further information in writing from the person making the claim. Where this subsection applies, the determining authority is required to determine whether the determining authority accepts liability for the claim in writing in accordance with this Act within 180 days of the date that the claim was given to the determining authority.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Claim deemed to be rejected</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(4) Notwithstanding any other provision of this Act or any other law, the determining authority is deemed to have rejected a claim made by a person:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (a) where the determining authority has yet to determine whether or not it accepts liability for the claim and the determining authority or the relevant authority has requested further information about the claim under subsection 61A(2) and the person making the claim has responded to that request for further information—on the day that is 180 days after the date that the claim was given to the relevant authority; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (b) where the determining authority has yet to determine whether or not it accepts liability for the claim and the determining authority or the relevant authority has not requested further information under subsection 61A(2)—on the day that is 120 days after the date that the claim was given to the determining authority.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Note: Where a person makes a claim that is subsequently deemed to be rejected, the person may seek to have the claim reconsidered and reviewed under Part VI.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Deemed rejection does not apply where request for further information has not been responded to</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(5) Subsection (4) does not apply if the relevant authority has reasonably requested that a person making a claim provides further necessary information and the person fails to respond to that request for further information.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">4 At the end of section 62</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(7) Subsection (8) applies if:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (a) the person in respect of whom the claim is made is an employee for the purposes of paragraph 6A(1)(a); and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (b) the period for determining each claim for compensation within the period prescribed by the regulations is greater than the period determined under subsection (6).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(8) Notwithstanding any other provision of this Act or any other law, the determining authority must make a decision affirming or revoking the determination or varying the determination:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (a) where the determining authority has requested further information about the claim and the person making the claim has responded to that request for further information—on the day that is 60 days after the request to reconsider the determination was given to the determining authority; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (b) where the Commission has not requested further information—on the day that is 30 days after the request to reconsider the determination was given to the determining authority.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Schedule 18—Review of amendments</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">1 Minister to cause independent review</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) The Minister must cause an independent review to be undertaken of the operation of the amendments made by this Act.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) The review must consider at least each of the following matters:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (a) the effectiveness of the amendments made by this Act; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (b) whether any shorter time frame requirements for decision making in relation to liability can reasonably be achieved by the Commission in terms of the <inline font-style="italic">Military Rehabilitation and Compensation Act 2004</inline>, or by the determining authority in terms of the <inline font-style="italic">Safety, Rehabilitation and Compensation Act 1988</inline>; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (c) the timeliness and quality of decision making in terms of claims made under the <inline font-style="italic">Military Rehabilitation and Compensation Act </inline><inline font-style="italic">2004 </inline>or <inline font-style="italic">Safety, Rehabilitation and Compensation Act 1988</inline>; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (d) whether improvements can be made in terms of the decision making process for claims made under the <inline font-style="italic">Military Rehabilitation and Compensation Act 2004 </inline>or <inline font-style="italic">Safety, Rehabilitation and Compensation Act 1988</inline>; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(e) whether the <inline font-style="italic">Military Rehabilitation and Compensation Act 2004 </inline>or <inline font-style="italic">Safety, Rehabilitation and Compensation Act 1988 </inline>should include specific provisions requiring that compensation and support be provided to claimants within a fixed period of time;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (f) similar provisions in other rehabilitation and compensation scheme in the States and Territories of Australia; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (g) the ability of the Commission, the relevant authority, the determining authority, Comcare and the Department of Defence to comply with the requirements in the amendments made by Schedule 17 of this Act; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (h) whether the amendments by Schedule 17 of this Act have a positive or negative impact upon persons making a claim under the <inline font-style="italic">Military Rehabilitation and Compensation Act 2004 </inline>or <inline font-style="italic">Safety, Rehabilitation and Compensation Act 1988</inline>.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) The review must make provision for public consultation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(4) The review must be undertaken as soon as practicable after the end of the period of 12 months after the commencement of Schedule 17.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(5) The person who undertakes the review must give the Minister a written report of the review within 6 months after the end of the 12 month period.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(6) The Minister must cause a copy of the report of the review to be tabled in each House of the Parliament within 15 sitting days of receiving it.</para></quote>
<para>Question negatived.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Third Reading</title>
            <page.no>4270</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:56</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>207825</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The question now is that the remaining stages of the bill be agreed to and the bill be now passed.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a third time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BUSINESS</title>
        <page.no>4271</page.no>
        <type>BUSINESS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Rearrangement</title>
          <page.no>4271</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:56</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator JACINTA COLLINS</name>
    <name.id>GB6</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the sitting of the Senate be suspended till 2 pm.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:56</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RONALDSON</name>
    <name.id>xt4</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>What an absolute outrage that you have given four minutes to a military superannuation bill. This is a slap in the face for veterans. And you are now seeking to suspend proceedings for four minutes. You stand utterly condemned. You have rammed through bill after bill. You are an absolute farce and you will be treated accordingly. How dare you guillotine a bill in relation to military superannuation arrangements? We do not care what your internal issues are; we care about proper process. We do not care that you are a bad government. The Australian people will deal with you, as they should. Two hundred and sixty gagged bills, and you sit there mute.</para>
<para>Every time I read in your newsletters that you are concerned about veterans, I am going to remind them, every day between now and the election, that this is what you did when given the chance to speak about our veterans—and you have denied them the opportunity to hear what we have to say about the bill and Senator Xenophon the chance to speak on something that he and I know is extremely important, and that is processing times. Processing times are not being met, despite this government having 120 days as one of its KPIs. So we will just dismiss the concerns of those veterans who, quite rightly, are deeply concerned about processing times!</para>
<para>You can sit there and you can change leaders and you can gag debate, but the one thing that will not change is that you are a complete and utter farce. You are treating this chamber with contempt, you are treating the Australian people with contempt and you are treating Australia's veterans with contempt. You constantly fail to recognise the uniqueness of military service. You have had three opportunities to give DFRDB and DRFB recipients fairer indexation and each time you have found every reason to oppose those. They should be getting fairer indexation now because, last year, you had the opportunity to do something about it. You have let them down, despite your promises to the contrary. You will be judged and condemned by your actions today. You will be judged and condemned by your actions over the last two weeks</para>
<para>You and I both know that when you are more worried about yourselves than you are about the people you represent you will be treated accordingly by a community that is sick and tired of your self-indulgence and sick and tired of your changing leaders for your own cheap political and domestic purposes. You are a bad government. New leaders do not change the dynamics of bad governments—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>7L6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! It being 2 pm we will proceed to questions without notice.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE</title>
        <page.no>4271</page.no>
        <type>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Labor Party Leadership</title>
          <page.no>4271</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:01</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ABETZ</name>
    <name.id>N26</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Prime Minister, Senator Wong—and I congratulate her again on her appointment. What policy reasons did the minister have for voting against her former Prime Minister, Ms Gillard, to whom she publicly declared her loyalty in yesterday's leadership ballot?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:01</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank the Leader of the Opposition in the Senate for that question. I have to say that what it demonstrates again is the tendency that Senator Abetz and a number of his colleagues have to personalise debate in this chamber. Regarding the decisions that individuals elected to this parliament make, all of us in this chamber on all sides of politics, with the exception perhaps of Senator Xenophon, at times have had to make decisions about who leads our party. They are decisions all of us weigh up. I put my reasons on the public record.</para>
<para>When it comes to issues of policy, however, I remind the Senate that the policy I am asked about is important. I would like to debate policy. I would like us to talk about how it is we can continue to create jobs in this country—having a Labor government that has delivered 960,000 jobs since it was elected. Policy is important when it comes to economic management and, of course, this government has delivered growth in the economy such that we are 14 per cent bigger as an economy than we were in 2007.</para>
<para>And, of course, there are other policies for a fairer Australia: the delivery through both houses of parliament of DisabilityCare. Only a Labor government would ever have delivered it. It would never have been delivered by the coalition. They had the opportunity, as Australians know.</para>
<para>So I am very happy, as are all in the Labor Party, to talk about policy and our plans for a stronger and brighter future for Australians—an Australia that is fairer and more— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:03</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ABETZ</name>
    <name.id>N26</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr President, I ask a supplementary question. If the government was that good, as Senator Wong just outlined, why on earth did they need to axe the Prime Minister? I ask: what changes, if any, to the policies of the Gillard government has the new Prime Minister, Mr Rudd, put forward to justify his return to the prime ministership?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:04</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I find it strange in passing that a member of the coalition party room is seeking a justification for decisions that the Labor Party has made. We as a government are very clear about our values and our priorities, and they are Labor values. They are values that are all about an Australia that delivers—</para>
<para>Honourable senators interjecting—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>7L6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! When there is silence we will proceed.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I was talking about Labor values and the importance of putting forward policies that spread opportunity across this great land of ours. I was talking about Labor values and the importance of ensuring fairness in our society. I was talking about Labor values and the importance of ensuring decent wages and conditions for working Australians and of ensuring more superannuation and a more secure and dignified retirement for Australians, which is something the coalition have always opposed. Let us never forget that those opposite have never supported compulsory superannuation. These are Labor values and Labor priorities— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:05</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ABETZ</name>
    <name.id>N26</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr President, I ask a further supplementary question. Given that the minister has advanced no policy reasons for the removal of the Prime Minister, will she indicate whether yesterday's leadership coup was therefore all about trying to save the jobs of Labor MPs and had nothing to do whatsoever with advancing the true welfare of the people of Australia?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:06</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>It is interesting, isn't it, that the only time we get questions from the opposition about jobs is when it is in relation to political jobs? They never ask us questions about jobs for Australians. They never ask questions about how it is we can create more jobs in our economy. They never ask questions about how it is we can ensure that our economy grows, because, of course, if your economy grows you can ensure there is greater income and there will be more jobs. It is interesting that a coalition that professes to be interested in Australians never talks about employment-generating policies or growth-generating policies. They come in here day after day and all they can continue with is relentless negativity over and over again. That is the form card of this opposition, both in this place and in the other place.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Abetz</name>
    <name.id>N26</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr President, I rise on a point of order. At the very dying stages of the answer, could I remind the minister of the requirement to be directly relevant. The issue was in relation to any policy rationale whatsoever for the change of the prime ministership of our nation yesterday.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Jacinta Collins</name>
    <name.id>GB6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr President, on the point of order, Senator Wong is being directly relevant to the question. She has gone directly to the point, and the point is—at risk of debating the point—she is pointing out that the alternative situation is something that does not go anywhere near policy, and the only time you mention policy is in the context of leadership.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>7L6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! There is no point of order. The minister has five seconds remaining.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>As I said, we do care about jobs on this side of the chamber, and that is why we have always put jobs first. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Dental Health</title>
          <page.no>4273</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:08</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator MOORE</name>
    <name.id>00AOQ</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Minister for Health, Senator McLucas. Can the minister inform the Senate about the new dental reform package?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:08</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McLUCAS</name>
    <name.id>84L</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Moore for her question. The Labor Party has a very strong record when it comes to dental health. In August 2012 the government announced a $4.1 billion package of dental health reform. There are a number of elements in this package designed to target the dental health of people, particularly those in need. There will be $2.7 billion allocated to fund basic dental treatment for eligible children and teenagers from 1 January 2014. It includes $1.3 billion for states and territories to expand services for adults in the public dental system from 1 July 2014. There will be $225 million allocated for a flexible grants program in 2014 to provide dental infrastructure in outer metropolitan, rural and regional areas, where we know that the dental health of the community is not to the level of the whole population. Around 3.4 million eligible children and teenagers between the ages of two and 17 will receive $1,000 over a two-year period for basic dental services such as check-ups, X-rays, fillings and extractions.</para>
<para>Further, the government has entered into a national partnership agreement with all states and territories to provide more public dental services. There has been $345.9 million provided to states and territories over three years to provide dental services to eligible concession card holders. Over $1.3 billion will be provided over four years to states and territories, under the national partnership agreement, to expand services for up to 1.4 million low-income adults in the public dental system. There will also be $450,000 provided over three years to support the provision of pro bono dental services to disadvantaged groups. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:10</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator MOORE</name>
    <name.id>00AOQ</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr President, I have a supplementary question. Can the minister inform the Senate of other government action on dental care?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:10</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McLUCAS</name>
    <name.id>84L</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The National Advisory Council on Dental Health report, delivered to the government in February 2012, said that there were 400,000 people in Australia waiting to access public dental services. These people were not able to get care under the Howard government's flawed Chronic Disease Dental Scheme. That is why the government has invested $344 million in last year's budget for a public dental waiting lists blitz—so that these 400,000 people can get the care they need. This investment is already flowing through and reducing public dental waiting lists. In addition, in the 2012 budget the government committed funding to strengthen Australia's dental workforce. There will be an increase in the number of placements available on the Voluntary Dental Graduate Year Program, and there will also be an increase in the number of placements for oral health therapists in a similar scheme. There will be incentives provided to encourage and support dentists— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:12</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator MOORE</name>
    <name.id>00AOQ</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr President, I ask a further supplementary question. Can the minister update the Senate on the closure of the Chronic Disease Dental Scheme?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:12</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McLUCAS</name>
    <name.id>84L</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I advise the Senate that the government took the very sensible measure to close the Chronic Disease Dental Scheme because that scheme was not being used appropriately. Frankly, we were finding that people were using that scheme not for check-ups, not for fillings, not for—particularly—paediatric work but for caps, and, in many respects, for cosmetic purposes. That is why our government took the decision to close that scheme and relocate that money to the appropriate area.</para>
<para>Honourable senators interjecting—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>7L6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order!</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Moore</name>
    <name.id>00AOQ</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I am trying to hear that answer.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>7L6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! There needs to be silence in the chamber.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McLUCAS</name>
    <name.id>84L</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>We took the principled and correct decision to close that system and to relocate that money to those people particularly in need. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Labor Party Leadership</title>
          <page.no>4274</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:13</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Leader of the Government in the Senate, Senator Wong. Before I ask the question, might I also congratulate Senator Wong on her election. I remind the minister of her statements about Mr Rudd in February 2012, when she said 'there were a lot of challenges' during the time she served in Mr Rudd's cabinet. She further said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">I did serve in Kevin Rudd’s cabinet, and I want to continue serving in Prime Minister Gillard’s cabinet. I’ve made a judgement based on the time I’ve spent under both leaders about who I think is best to govern the country. And that is why I’m supporting Prime Minister Gillard.</para></quote>
<para>Minister, what has changed?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:14</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I have to say I find it interesting that Senator Brandis would actually be wanting to raise comments about leaders, because I seem to recall some 'rodent' comments that got quite a lot of press at some point. Senator Carr is urging me to remind the chamber of what was said, but I am far too polite to return to the issue of—</para>
<para>Honourable senators interjecting —</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>7L6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order, on both sides!</para>
<para class="italic">Senator Cameron interjecting—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>7L6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order, Senator Cameron! When there is silence on both sides we will proceed. You will get an answer to your question when there is silence. It seems that people are more interested in entertaining themselves than listening, which is quite disorderly. When there is silence we will proceed.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Mr President. I suspect some of the comments were more entertaining than I am. It is true, I am not an entertainer. I thank the senator for his congratulations. I was about to fall off my chair, but I did appreciate the graciousness. In relation to the decision that was made by any individual caucus member, we have made that decision and some of us have chosen to make our reasons for that public, and I am one of them. I have nothing to add to that.</para>
<para>The approach that the Labor Party and the Labor government continue to make is simply this: as I said, we believe in an Australia where there is greater opportunity for all Australians. We believe in a fairer Australia. We believe in growing our economy and continuing to support jobs. We believe in improving our education systems and our apprenticeship systems. We believe in making sure that we steer the economy through some significant and important transitions which are occurring at the moment. These are the priorities of the Australian Labor Party and they will never change. The values will never change. Those opposite might want to get into a lot of politics about this issue. What the Labor Party is focused on and what the country is focused on are the plans for the future. The country is focused on the policies that the government are delivering, and that the alternative government seeks to put forward. That is what the country is focused on. We, as a government, are focused on implementing our plans today for a stronger, brighter future for Australia tomorrow.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:17</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr President, I ask a supplementary question. I remind the minister about her comments regarding the Labor leadership last year when she said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">My view is you need to think about who do you think is the best person to be Prime Minister? Who has the temperament, who has the character, who has the determination and the discipline? And my view is that person is Prime Minister Gillard.</para></quote>
<para>Isn't her decision to abandon Ms Gillard and to support a person, whom she previously considered inadequate, to the office of Prime Minister all about her own self-interest and nothing to with the national interest?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:18</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The answer is no. I again would say that the opposition do have the opportunity in question time to question the government of the day about our policies and our approach. I think it says something about the complete vacuum that is the coalition's policies for the future, the complete vacuum of any substantive ideas about how to meet the challenges of today for tomorrow, and the complete absence of any real plans to deliver outcomes for Australians. They continue to focus in this question time, when they ask questions of government ministers, not on any policy issue and not on any issue that is of relevance to the economic wellbeing or the personal and social wellbeing of the people who elect us and put us here but on personal and political issues with their usual relentless negative frame.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:19</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr President, I ask a further supplementary question. I note that the minister does not consider her decision to sack an incumbent Prime Minister a matter of sufficient note to be the subject of questions in question time. I refer the minister to her statements this morning and her decision to support Mr Rudd.</para>
<para>Honourable senators interjecting—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>7L6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! You need to withdraw that. You cannot say that.</para>
<para>An honourable senator: I withdraw.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>7L6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I refer the minister to her statements this morning that her decision to support Mr Rudd was 'a wrenching personal decision', and 'the most difficult decision of my political life'. Isn't it the case that her decision to change to Mr Rudd was entirely due to the opinion polls, not the good of Australia?</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:20</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>We are always focused on this side of the chamber on what is good for the country. That is why we got rid of Work Choices.</para>
<para>Honourable senators interjecting—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>7L6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! The time to debate this, I remind honourable senators, is after three o'clock. If you wish to debate it, do it then. Order! The time is after three o'clock to debate the issue.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Mr President. That is why we abolished Work Choices, something I know Senator Abetz is still smarting over. That is why we focused, during the global financial crisis, on ensuring that we supported jobs and growth, and, as a result of that, that is why we have an economy that is continuing to grow and is 14 per cent larger than it was in 2007.</para>
<para class="italic">Senator Brandis interjecting—</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Brandis, I will take that interjection. I know that he loves Mother England, but I would remind him that the British economy is, in fact, smaller than it was in 2007. I would make the point that we are focused on things like delivering disability care— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Asylum Seekers</title>
          <page.no>4276</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:21</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator MILNE</name>
    <name.id>ka5</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister for Foreign Affairs, Senator Carr. Minister, given your recent statements that, 'We need a tougher, more hard-edged assessment,' of people's claims for asylum, and further, 'They're people not fleeing persecution,' does this signify a new Rudd government policy to change and narrow the legal definition of 'refugee' designed to slash refugee numbers and push people back with the stroke of a pen? Is this the policy, Minister, you and the new Prime Minister will take to Indonesia and other countries in the region in coming weeks?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:22</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BOB CARR</name>
    <name.id>wx4</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>What an impertinence, coming from a party which has no policy on this or anything else. The position of the Greens is that anyone being brought into Australian waters by a people-smuggler—</para>
<para>Honourable senators interjecting—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>7L6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! Both sides, when there is silence we will proceed. Senator Milne, you deserve to be heard in silence.</para>
<para class="italic">Senator Milne interjecting—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>7L6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Yes, I know it is a point of order. Senator Milne, you deserve, though, to be heard in silence. Order, those on my left!</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Milne</name>
    <name.id>ka5</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr President, I rise on a point of order relating to relevance. Personal attack is no substitute for answering the question.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>7L6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>On the point of order, Senator Bob Carr.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BOB CARR</name>
    <name.id>wx4</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>It was not a personal attack; it was a political attack on a party without policies.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>7L6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The minister has been answering the question for a short period of time, but I do draw the minister's attention to the question. The minister still has one minute and 48 seconds remaining to answer the question.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BOB CARR</name>
    <name.id>wx4</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The fact is that overwhelmingly, if not 100 per cent, people being brought as asylum seekers to these shores are being brought by people-smugglers. That is the transformation, and you will not accept the transformation. That is what has happened. You have now got 100 per cent of this awful traffic in human beings, in unseaworthy vessels, being brought by people-smugglers. These are not cases of people under persecution who have cobbled together, in their desperation, money to buy a fishing trawler and set out onto the high seas; these are people who have been captured by money-making criminal syndicates, and you will not recognise it. That is the transformation. That is the change. The second change is that these are increasingly not people fleeing persecution, because in respect of Iranians, for example, they come from majority ethnic and religious groups. They are paying for passage with people-smugglers. This is a transformation in the evidence before us. As the great Lord Keynes said, unprompted, 'If the evidence changes, I change my opinion.' I say the challenge for those good Australians who have argued a refugee case in the past is to re-examine their position. The evidence before us is they are economic refugees, not people fleeing persecution, and are being brought here by people-smugglers— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:26</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator MILNE</name>
    <name.id>ka5</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr President, I ask a supplementary question. I note the minister did not say whether the policy is to now redefine 'refugee' for the purposes of taking a new policy to the region. Given that 90 per cent of asylum seekers have been found to be genuine refugees, what evidence, Minister, do you have that Hazaras who arrive by boat are not being persecuted by the Taliban in Pakistan and Afghanistan and are economic migrants, as you tried to claim last night? Are those Hazaras persecuted by the Taliban and are they economic migrants?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:27</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BOB CARR</name>
    <name.id>wx4</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>That is how deceptive the Greens are. I did not mention Hazaras last night. In the interview I did not mention Hazaras. Look at the transcript. I did not use that word. I referred to the recent spike in Iranian immigration, which is overwhelmingly middle-class Iranians who belong to the majority religious and ethnic group in that country and are coming to these shores as economic migrants brought here by people-smugglers. Again, that is the crucial combination based on the evidence before us, which your party refuses to accept: one, economic migration, not people fleeing persecution; and, two, arriving here as part of a commercial criminal enterprise—that is, the criminal syndicate that is people-smuggling. You ignore the evidence. You will not look at the evidence. Your case has faded from under you. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:28</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator MILNE</name>
    <name.id>ka5</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr President, I ask a further supplementary question. For the third time the minister did not say whether or not he is going to redefine 'refugee' for the purposes of slashing the numbers, so I ask: how can the government or you be taken seriously in nominating Australia for a position on the UN Human Rights Council when you are prejudging refugees as economic migrants, acting in total violation of the United Nations human rights convention?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:29</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BOB CARR</name>
    <name.id>wx4</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>This leader without policies, this leader who refuses to look at the evidence, this leader who ignores the evidence of people-smuggling—just ignores it—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Milne</name>
    <name.id>ka5</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr President, I rise on a point of order going to relevance. As I indicated before, personal attack is no substitute for answering the question.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>7L6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The minister has been answering for 11 seconds. I do remind the minister of the question.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BOB CARR</name>
    <name.id>wx4</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>My sentence did have subjunctive clauses in it, but I am reaching the core of the sentence, which is that you are not looking at the evidence. The evidence is of people smuggling, economic refugees and a spike in numbers coming overwhelmingly from people who are from majority ethnic or religious groups in the community they come from. The Greens party will not consider that. When people arrive in Australia without authorisation, any claims they make for their reasons to travel to this country are assessed by the Department of Immigration and Citizenship. If these claims are not covered by Australia's international obligations, they will be returned to their homeland wherever possible. That is why Australia has, and will continue to— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Economy</title>
          <page.no>4278</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:30</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CORMANN</name>
    <name.id>HDA</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Prime Minister, Senator Wong. I refer the minister to Mr Rudd's comments last night about strong proven economic leadership. Does Mr Rudd describe $129 billion in accumulated deficit on his first watch as Prime Minister, including the two biggest budget deficits ever, as strong proven national economic leadership? Why should the Australian people trust Mr Rudd when it comes to the economy when he broke his promise to deliver budget surpluses, delivering debt and consecutive deficits instead, despite having benefited from the best terms of trade in 140 years and many new taxes, having introduced Labor's failed mining tax and the job-destroying Carbon Pollution Reduction Scheme, which, of course, eventually morphed into the world's biggest carbon tax?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:31</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>There was a missing fact in that question. There was a substantial missing fact. It was a pretty big fact. It was called the global financial crisis.</para>
<para>Opposition senators interjecting—</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>All the opposition do—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>7L6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! When there is silence, we will proceed. The minister is entitled to be heard in silence. When there is silence, we will proceed—it is as simple as that.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I was saying that all the opposition demonstrate to all and sundry when they scoff and say, 'Oh, the global financial crisis!' is that the Liberal Party have become the party of economic irrationality. I would expect that from the National Party. I would expect that from Senator Joyce. But this is the party of Peter Costello. This is the party that used to pride itself that it understood matters economic coming into the chamber and asking a question about the last years of our economy's development and trying to completely rub out the impact on our economy and on the global economy of the largest downturn since the Great Depression. Senator Cormann ought to go to the United States, the United Kingdom, Spain or Greece and ask them whether they think they should look at the last five years of their economic history without regard to the global financial crisis. It is the most extraordinarily absurd economic proposition. If the coalition's policy now is that fiscal policy should never respond to the macroeconomic environment, they had better tell Mr Hockey that because it is a ridiculous proposition and contrary to the way in which he has most recently articulated their policy—in fact, it was as recently as this week—in a speech— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:34</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CORMANN</name>
    <name.id>HDA</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr President, I ask a supplementary question. Given Mr Rudd's criticisms of the Gillard-Swan mining tax, specifically his criticism that it has not raised any meaningful revenue, punching another black hole into Labor's budget, will Mr Rudd now join the coalition in our commitment to scrap the mining tax, along with the expensive promises Labor have attached to it? Or does he intend to attach himself to the extreme cause of the Greens and—</para>
<para class="italic">Senator Cameron interjecting—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>7L6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order, Senator Cameron! Senator Cormann, repeat the last part of the question.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CORMANN</name>
    <name.id>HDA</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Will he attach himself to the extreme cause of the Greens and Senator Cameron and ramp the mining tax up further?</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:35</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>It was a somewhat strange question and—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Ian Macdonald</name>
    <name.id>YW4</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Do we have to have a commentary on the question every time?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>7L6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! The minister may continue.</para>
<para class="italic">Senator Ian Macdonald interjecting—</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I was just waiting for the constant repetition from Senator Macdonald to subside slightly. As I said, it was a question that I think suggested on the one hand that the government would abolish the mining tax but on the other hand suggested that we would have a mining tax that someone else suggested. There are a couple of propositions to make about the mining tax, which Senator Cormann does not agree with. We have been very clear on the principle that the Australian people own the resources that are the subject of this tax regime.</para>
<para class="italic">Senator Cormann interjecting—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>7L6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! You have had your question; the minister is answering the question. Desist from interjecting.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>We have been very clear about the proposition that the Australian people own these resources. That is the rationale for the tax.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:36</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CORMANN</name>
    <name.id>HDA</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr President, I ask a further supplementary question. The minister clearly was not prepared to rule out a ramp-up of the MRRT.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>7L6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! What is your question?</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CORMANN</name>
    <name.id>HDA</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Is there any chance that the Prime Minister will join the coalition in a bipartisan way in our efforts to scrap the carbon tax, to return the budget to surplus, to take pressure off families and their costs of living, to reduce the cost of doing business and to help strengthen our economy at a time when the economy needs strengthening?</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:37</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>There are times in public debate when bipartisanship would be a good thing, but not when we fundamentally disagree. There is a fundamental disagreement between the Labor Party and the coalition about, for example, the pricing of carbon, which the coalition used to agree with, and the principle that the Australian people should get a fair share of revenue from the resources that they own.</para>
<para>I turn to one of the components of the senator's question: cost of living. I remind the chamber, through you, Mr President, that one of the principle policies of the coalition has always been to oppose compulsory superannuation. Those opposite, led by a man who described superannuation as a con job and led by a man who is on the record as saying that the coalition has never supported increases to superannuation, want to come in here and talk about the cost of living. The reality is that those opposite have never accepted the need for— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Papua New Guinea: Tuberculosis, International Development Assistance</title>
          <page.no>4280</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:38</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FURNER</name>
    <name.id>I0P</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister for Foreign Affairs, Senator Bob Carr. Can the minister update the Senate on Australia's approach to assisting the government of Papua New Guinea address tuberculosis in Western Province?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:38</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BOB CARR</name>
    <name.id>wx4</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Australia's efforts to help the government of PNG address tuberculosis help treat people in their communities, in their homes in Western Province. This approach is based on the World Health Organisation's Stop TB strategy and has proved most successful. It is critical in preventing multi-drug-resistant TB developing and spreading.</para>
<para>But there has, I am sad to report to the Senate, been a smear campaign targeting Australia's impressive efforts to address this issue in a country that, on average, has 14,000 new TB cases diagnosed per year. It is an issue that has been politicised, I am sad to relate, by the member for Leichhardt. He said Australia's life-saving assistance, this fine work helping PNG and Western Province, has been 'grossly mismanaged by bureaucrats'. His claims have been criticised as derogatory and negative by, among others, Dr Smith Pinai of Daru General Hospital in a letter to the Australian High Commission in June last year. The opinion of the member for Leichhardt flies in the face of professional medical assessments made by the World Health Organisation, which in November 2012 in its major document on TB monitoring found there had been 'clear progress in TB prevention and control in South Fly' since its last review.</para>
<para>Associate Professor Emma McBryde, the Head of Epidemiology at the Victorian Infectious Diseases Service at Royal Melbourne Hospital, concluded in her report on this subject that the current approach, including treating Papua New Guineans in their own communities, is the right approach. Even the Queensland government itself, the coalition's poster child, has endorsed the approach. In a statement from Queensland's Premier, Mr Campbell Newman, and its health minister, Mr Lawrence Springborg, in a press release on 15 May, they stated that by providing the best treatment— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:40</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FURNER</name>
    <name.id>I0P</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr President, I ask a supplementary question. Can the minister provide details of Australia's recent assistance to the government of Western Province to address TB?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:41</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BOB CARR</name>
    <name.id>wx4</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Yes, I can. Our approach with the assistance is confirmed by that recent endorsement by the Premier of Queensland and the health minister of Queensland, Mr Campbell Newman and Mr Lawrence Springborg, respectively, who in a joint statement on 15 May said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">By providing the best treatment in the home communities, the outcomes will improve—</para></quote>
<para>and—</para>
<quote><para class="block">it’s important to build on the effective TB treatment regime that is already established at Daru.</para></quote>
<para>That is their endorsement of an approach that has seen the refurbishment of an interim TB isolation ward, the construction of a new TB isolation ward, to be opened next month, the provision of specialist TB staff, the training of 46 workers and volunteers—this is effective Australian work helping our friends in PNG—the funding for laboratory diagnosis and drug sensitivity testing in Queensland, options in funding to redevelop Daru Hospital, rehabilitation of the health centre— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:42</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FURNER</name>
    <name.id>I0P</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr President, I ask a further supplementary question. Can the minister provide details of Australia's broader assistance to PNG's health sector?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:42</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BOB CARR</name>
    <name.id>wx4</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Indeed I can, and I am happy for the opportunity. However, to complete the answer on TB help: since May 2012, the sea ambulance we provided the province has made 27 trips along the South Fly coast to deliver TB and other medical services to remote villages. That is all in the context of the great work we are doing in partnership with PNG to improve health services. In 2012 alone we helped to vaccinate more than half a million children against measles and polio and more than 1.2 million women against tetanus. We trained 187 health workers, including doctors, nurses and pharmacists, in PNG and supported 20,000 supervised births. Our assistance this year will reach $105 million. That is our assistance to the health sector of PNG. There will be medical supplies to 2,700 health facilities across the country among other things. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Asylum Seekers</title>
          <page.no>4281</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:43</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CASH</name>
    <name.id>I0M</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Prime Minister, Senator Wong. I remind the minister of Mr Rudd's statement in 2009 when he said, 'As Prime Minister, I take full responsibility for our immigration policy and its implementation.' I also remind the minister that since Mr Rudd dismantled the proven border protection policies of the Howard government 45,189 people have arrived illegally on 739 boats. Will the Prime Minister personally take responsibility for the more than 45,000 people who have arrived illegally, for the more than 1,000 drownings and for the chaos, cost and tragedy that have followed his decision to roll out the Rudd-carpet for people smugglers?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:44</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I am sure it is very distressing for many Australians and certainly disappointing for those of us in this chamber that the senator chooses to treat such a difficult policy issue in the way that she did. I am very happy to have a policy discussion about irregular maritime arrivals. I am very happy to do that. It is a complex policy area. There are 46 million people displaced worldwide, and the world has changed, when it comes to people smuggling, since 2000. The world has changed in many ways, as Senator Carr in part alluded to in an earlier answer. I do not think that we serve the Australian people well to use something as tragic as drownings in the way that they were used in that question—to talk about 'rolling out the carpet' or whatever the phrase was in such a flippant way. We are talking about people's lives, and we are talking about a complicated policy issue—</para>
<para>Honourable senators interjecting—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>7L6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Wong, just resume your seat. When there is silence we will proceed. Senator Wong.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Mr President. We are talking about a policy problem that will never be solved by a three-word slogan, and it will never be solved by a party that does not even have the guts to raise their policy with the President of Indonesia when they had their chance. That really showed what feet of clay the Leader of the Opposition has—what feet of clay has this man who beat his chest, entered into this appalling debate in which he sought to use the tragedies that have occurred for political gain, and then did not even have the courage to raise his policy position with the President of Indonesia, because he knew he would be rebuffed.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:46</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CASH</name>
    <name.id>I0M</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr President, I ask a supplementary question. I remind the minister that Mr Rudd personally promised that he would take a very hard line on the question of people smuggling—a very tough line on people smuggling. I also remind the minister that Mr Rudd said just four days before the 2007 election that he would turn the boats back and take appropriate action as the vessels approached Australia on the high seas. Why did Mr Rudd break both of those promises? And how can the Australian people trust the Prime Minister who started the boats to stop the boats?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:47</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>In my primary answer I referenced the fact that this is not a policy position or a challenge that can ever be resolved by three-word slogans, and we ended that question with two three-word slogans. As much as Senator Cash might enjoy and relish the opportunity to try and create political mayhem with this issue, the reality is that this is a complex public policy question, a global issue—</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you. What I would say is: as to the people we serve here, as well as those who seek to make a perilous journey, we do not do any of them well by treating this issue as a political football. I would remind those opposite that the ambassador for Indonesia has made very clear that their policy will not be agreed to by the Indonesian government.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:48</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CASH</name>
    <name.id>I0M</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr President, I ask a further supplementary question. I refer to the Prime Minister's statement three years ago when he said: 'If I return as Prime Minister, this party and the government will not be lurching to the right on the question of asylum seekers.' Will the government now support the coalition's policy to turn back the boats when it is safe and possible to do so?</para>
<para>Honourable senators interjecting—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>7L6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! When there is silence we will proceed. When there is silence, I will give the minister the call. If you wish to debate it, there is 12 minutes to go.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:49</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The reality is that, if you look at the advice from Defence and Border Protection personnel, and if you look at the public statements of the Indonesian government's representatives, it is very clear that the slogans of 'stopping the boats' and 'turning the boats back' are not workable. I would refer you to Indonesia's Ambassador to Australia who, when he was asked on 31 May, said as follows:</para>
<quote><para class="block">I think it's not possible for the Coalition to say that it has to go back to Indonesia because Indonesia is not the origin country of these people …</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">No such collaboration will happen between Indonesia and Australia (to) bring back the people to Indonesia.</para></quote>
<para>On top of that, we have the advice of the Navy and Border Protection as to the risks. So if those opposite believe that they can simply fix this issue with a slogan, really they are misleading the Australian people.</para>
<para>Honourable senators interjecting—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>7L6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>When there is silence I will call the next questioner.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Defence: Naval Vessels</title>
          <page.no>4283</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:50</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator MADIGAN</name>
    <name.id>217571</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Minister for Defence, Senator Bob Carr. During Senate estimates in February this year, Senator Brandis ascertained from Defence officials that Australia had conducted no patrols in the Southern Ocean in 2012 and that the vessel ACV <inline font-style="italic">Ocean Protector</inline>, which can be used for those purposes, is being used in Australia's northern waters. Given the fact that our limited number of patrol vessels seriously affects our capacity to patrol our interests in the Southern Ocean, and given that BAE Systems has cautioned the government that it does not have sufficient workload to keep its current trained and skilled workers employed beyond the end of next year, can the minister outline what considerations have been taken towards bringing forward the funding and construction of the SEA 1180 offshore combatant vessels project?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:51</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BOB CARR</name>
    <name.id>wx4</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank the senator for his question. I can inform the Senate that this offshore combatant vessel was a 2009 Defence white paper project to develop proposals to rationalise the Navy's patrol boat, mine countermeasures, hydrographic and oceanographic forces into a single, modular, multirole vessel. As outlined in the 2013 Defence white paper released in May, Defence will continue to have the capabilities to conduct patrol, minehunting and hydrographic roles. That Defence white paper outlined the government's commitment to bring forward the replacement of Australia's Armidale-class patrol boats with both Australia's patrol boats and the Pacific patrol boats being replaced, preferably with a proven vessel. A multirole vessel remains a possible longer-term project, subject to technological maturity and an ability to provide operational flexibility with lower costs of ownership. Similarly, the government intends to upgrade and extend the existing minehunter coastal and survey motor launch hydrographic vessels until a longer term solution can be delivered.</para>
<para>Government decisions on the scope and the roles of future vessels will take account of the technological maturity of particular solutions as well as the remaining life of current vessels. But I underline that this project, the offshore combat vessels, was there in the 2009 Defence white paper project to pursue the proposal of rationalising the Navy's patrol boat and mine countermeasures, the hydrographic and oceanographic forces, into a single modular multirole vessel. I draw the attention of the senator and the Senate to references in the 2013 Defence white paper released in May.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:53</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator MADIGAN</name>
    <name.id>217571</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr President, I ask a supplementary question. The Defence Department's Future Submarine Industry Skills Plan states:</para>
<quote><para class="block">As it currently stands, the scheme of shipbuilding projects in the Defence Capability Plan creates gaps for the Australian shipbuilding industry with a decline in project activity that has already commenced … These peaks and troughs further deny industry the serious opportunity to invest, develop skills and improve performance over a longer period.</para></quote>
<para>What assurance can the minister provide to the Australian people that he will not allow a gap to occur in the Australian shipbuilding industry again and that maintaining and growing current capacity is a national security priority?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:54</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BOB CARR</name>
    <name.id>wx4</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>In May the government released the Future Submarine Industry Skills Plan. The government is committed to acquiring 12 future submarines to be assembled in Adelaide. I know that is warmly endorsed by government senators from South Australia, who worked very hard to refine and nurture this policy—pre-eminently, the Leader of the Government in the Senate, whose interest in this matter has been so marked and has distinguished her political career. Future Submarine will be the biggest and most complex defence project Australia has undertaken. The Future Submarine Industry Skills Plan was commissioned to identify what is required to build and sustain the skills to deliver submarines. It was in consultation with CEOs— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:55</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator MADIGAN</name>
    <name.id>217571</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr President, I ask a further supplementary question. In a recent media release, AMWU national secretary Glenn Thompson stated with regard to the Australian shipbuilding industry and our currently planned but non-funded order for naval vessels that we are 'heading towards the valley of death'. Can the minister explain what, if any, attempts are being made to help Australian shipyards build quality ships for Australia and the world?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:55</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BOB CARR</name>
    <name.id>wx4</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I can inform the senator that, to provide more stable work for the industry and retain critical skills in the Future Submarine project, the government will at the earliest opportunity replace Australia's supply ships HMAS <inline font-style="italic">Success</inline> and HMAS <inline font-style="italic">Sirius</inline>. This will include examination of options for local, hybrid and overseas build. The government has brought forward the replacement of Australia's Armidale class patrol boats to be assembled here in Australia. The government will give consideration to bringing forward the replacement of the Anzac class frigates with a new frigate to be assembled in Australia. This will include further investment in the Australian radar technology already in service in the Navy frigates. The government has made key decisions on future submarines and will implement the Future Submarine Industry Skills Plan. So that is our plan being implemented. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DISTINGUISHED VISITORS</title>
        <page.no>4285</page.no>
        <type>DISTINGUISHED VISITORS</type>
      </debateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:56</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>7L6</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! I draw to the attention of honourable senators the presence in the gallery of the former senator Santo Santoro. Welcome.</para>
<para>Honourable senators: Hear, hear!</para>
</speech>
</debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE</title>
        <page.no>4285</page.no>
        <type>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Carbon Pricing</title>
          <page.no>4285</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:56</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HUMPHRIES</name>
    <name.id>KO6</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Prime Minister, Senator Wong. I refer to the interview Mr Rudd had with Kerry O'Brien on the <inline font-style="italic">7.30 Report</inline> on 12 May 2010 in which he blamed failure at Copenhagen on his decision to axe the proposed carbon tax. He said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Now it might be easy for you to sit in <inline font-style="italic">7:30 Report</inline> land and say that was easy to do. Let me tell you mate, it wasn't. … That is why we've announced a decision that we would not seek to reintroduce this legislation until … global action has been adequate …</para></quote>
<para>Given that any adoption of a new international climate change agreement has been deferred until 2015 and will not take effect until 2020, will Mr Rudd stay true to his 2010 statement and now axe Ms Gillard's carbon tax until global action has been adequate and there is a new international agreement in place?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:57</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank the senator for what I believe will be his last question—although I have to say I anticipated it would be on the Public Service.</para>
<para class="italic">Senator Ian Macdonald interjecting—</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Macdonald is demonstrating the hubris for which he has become so loved on his side. If he could see their heads drop whenever he talks, he would know with what regard he is not held. Anyway, I digress. I thank the senator for what I understand will be his last question in this place. I think there are a couple of propositions to which I should respond. The first one is the principle of a carbon price. I do recall that Senator Humphries was at one time among those senators who understood the importance of pricing carbon—and the importance of carbon pricing was of course clearly understood by Prime Minister Howard. Our party has been very clear in our continued advocacy and delivery of a price on carbon—at times in very difficult political circumstances because of the partisanship that was demonstrated by those opposite.</para>
<para>The second point on the question is the proposition in relation to international action. This is a sort of Liberal version of the National Party saying that we do not want any foreign investment; we do not want to pretend there is any global economy out there that we are part of. The facts are that action is being taken in many countries around the world. I make the point and am happy to come back to this: we are seeing action in California and nine other US states; Korea has legislated its national emissions trading scheme; Japan introduced a carbon price, carbon taxes; and new regional emissions trading schemes have commenced in Canada— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:00</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HUMPHRIES</name>
    <name.id>KO6</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank the minister and I ask a supplementary question. Is it still the intention of the government to allow a carbon tax hike of five per cent next week despite the absence of a binding global agreement, not a bilateral agreement, which Mr Rudd had previously set as a prerequisite for the introduction of any carbon tax?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:00</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Dismissing bilateral or unilateral action is not the approach the coalition take when it comes to trade. So one wonders why they suddenly say in relation to climate policy: 'We are going to ignore what China is doing, what the United States is doing, what Korea is doing, what Japan is doing. We are going to ignore that.' That, again, is an example of the economic irrationality of those opposite.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Humphries</name>
    <name.id>KO6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr President, I rise on a point of order. My question was about whether the government would allow a five per cent hike in the carbon tax next week. It is only a few days away. Can the minister in enlighten the Senate on that question?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>7L6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I believe the minister is addressing the question. The minister still has 35 seconds remaining.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Mr President. The second part of the question dealt with the issue the senator raised in his point of order. I would make that point. I think the proposition that is being asserted by the opposition again today, as well as yesterday, is that the government should say that what is being passed through this parliament—through this chamber and the other place—what is the law of the land, should somehow be unilaterally waived by the government of the day. I suspect in relation to any legislation, if that were the proposition that the government put in place, you could hear the howls from those opposite already. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:02</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HUMPHRIES</name>
    <name.id>KO6</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr President, I ask a further supplementary question. Given Mr Rudd was arguing against implementing a carbon tax at the time of his original knifing as Prime Minister, can the minister tell the Senate whether Mr Rudd now backs Labor's current carbon tax and how the Australian people can have any confidence in what he will do with respect to the carbon tax in the future?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:02</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Labor Party's position is we support carbon pricing. That is the position of the party, that is the position of the Prime Minister and that puts us in stark contrast to the flat-earth policy of those opposite, which will cost the economy more, which will cost Australian families more and which will be disruptive to business and business confidence were it ever to be implemented.</para>
<para>Mr President, I ask that further questions be placed on the <inline font-style="italic">Notice Paper</inline><inline font-style="italic">.</inline></para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE: TAKE NOTE OF ANSWERS</title>
        <page.no>4286</page.no>
        <type>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE: TAKE NOTE OF ANSWERS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Labor Party Leadership</title>
          <page.no>4286</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:03</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ABETZ</name>
    <name.id>N26</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate take note of the answers given by the Minister for Finance and Deregulation (Senator Wong) to questions without notice asked by Senators Abetz and Brandis today relating to recent changes in the Government.</para></quote>
<para>Division, seething hatreds and revenge are the new paradigm in this dysfunctional Labor government. Honour, integrity and loyalty are foreign concepts without any use in their internal treachery. When specifically asked today, the Leader of the Government in the Senate could not tell us why for any policy reason the Prime Minister was removed. And of course the Deputy Prime Minister was removed and the Leader of the Government in the Senate was removed. The three highest positions in the land were all removed last night. When asked what was the policy reason for this manoeuvre, no answer was provided, no rationale was proffered whatsoever. I wonder why that might be. It is a pretty simple answer because there is no answer. There is no policy rationale for the wholesale slaughter of the leadership and cabinet members last night.</para>
<para>Those changes last night had nothing whatsoever to do with the welfare of the Australian people. Those changes last night had nothing to do with a new policy direction for this nation. The changes last night were all about Labor desperately trying to preserve themselves. Of itself, Labor's turmoil is irrelevant other than Labor is supposed to be the government of our great nation. Labor's new team's approach is revenge on those within and attack on Mr Abbott without—personalised, non-stop, ugly negativity.</para>
<para>They have no first-term agenda or record to run on. Why? Because they sacked their first-term Prime Minister, remember. So let us turn to the second term. Well, they sacked their second-term Prime Minister as well. So what is their policy going to be as they lead in, asking the Australian people to endorse them for a third term? Well, we have the first-term Prime Minister that we sacked for incompetence returning to you to deliver a third-term government, a third-term government solely built on revenge on those within and attack on Mr Abbott. I simply say to the Australian people, there is an alternative, it is a genuine alternative—it is a 50-page plan of real solutions for the problems being faced by the Australian people.</para>
<para>Might I also say that with this change of the deckchairs comes the real risk of the destruction of documents, on which Mr Rudd has form from whilst he was with the Queensland government. So I table a letter written by myself to the Prime Minister requesting a guarantee that certain documents deliberately withheld by the former Prime Minister and Mr Shorten will be preserved, especially given the Australian Information Commissioner's preliminary view that the documents appear to be official documents despite the Prime Minister's office trying to assert to the contrary—documents that go to ministerial integrity for the former Prime Minister, the Minister for Foreign Affairs and the Minister for Employment and Workplace Relations. We will be watching the actions of this government very carefully in that particular space.</para>
<para>But the Australian people simply deserve better. Seven cabinet ministers were destroyed last night.</para>
<para>An opposition senator: Eight, now.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ABETZ</name>
    <name.id>N26</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Eight, now. The tally goes up. Before that, Minister Ferguson was destroyed and Senator Kim Carr was destroyed. The list goes on. This is a dysfunctional government, more interested in itself—more interested in the internecine warfare within the Labor Party—than in delivering good government to the Australian people.</para>
<para>The Australian people are entitled to expect better from their government. Simply recycling the first-term failure as the front man for the third-term attempt will not cut the mustard, nor should it. Until the Labor Party can explain the policy rationale for the change, it is obvious there is no real, genuine change. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Abetz, do you wish to seek leave to table that document?</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ABETZ</name>
    <name.id>N26</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Yes, I do, thank you. It has been circulated.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:08</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator JACINTA COLLINS</name>
    <name.id>GB6</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>What was noteworthy not only in the questions asked by Senator Abetz and Senator Brandis but in all opposition questions in question time today was the absence of this opposition's use of question time—today is the last available question time—to present any sensible alternative. Instead, we saw the slurs and the innuendo of which we are accused.</para>
<para>Let me give you a few examples from some of the commentary in question time today. It was said that we on this side are motivated solely by our own self-interest and that we have no values. There were derogatory references to the word 'mate'. I wonder sometimes whether senators on the other side of the chamber understand how their commentary looks. I really do wonder if they see how their presentation appears to everyday people that deserve better from both a government and an opposition.</para>
<para>Certainly there has been division in the Labor Party. There is no question about that. And that has now been settled. The issue of the leadership of the Labor Party has been settled, will remain settled and will remain clear. We will now be solely focused on the needs of Australians, unlike those on the other side who carp and carry on.</para>
<para class="italic">Senator Abetz interjecting—</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator JACINTA COLLINS</name>
    <name.id>GB6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Abetz just highlighted, 'It's all about revenge and knives and axe attacks,' but he holds up a glossy, vacuous 50-page document. Mr Abbott has been holding it up for months. What is more notable about that document is not so much what it says but what it does not say. And there are countless policy areas that we could go through in that regard.</para>
<para>Instead, we know what the Labor government says. We know what we can do better. Senator Abetz claims that we could not talk about what policy needs to be changed or what would be different. What we do know very clearly is that we can and do need to make a clearer message. We need to develop policy and promote it better. We understand that that is something that we can do in the interests of Australians as we focus on their needs so that we can better deliver what has already been delivered in terms of a strong economy—a triple-A rating of our economy—and protecting jobs in ways this opposition never would have.</para>
<para>We have promoted education and achieved consensus in disability care and generally in education as well. We have improved superannuation for Australians. These are things this opposition would never do. We will confront this election with a very stark difference. The vacuum of policy from those on the other side—the failure to present an alternative government—was demonstrated in question time today. There was no alternative government presented from the other side. They are incapable of doing it. They could not even receive a compliment for a departing senator without interrupting it. They have problems amongst their own colleagues which I was very sorry to see.</para>
<para>The policy position from this opposition is not just about the fact that Mr Abbott continues to say no. It is about the failure to develop sensible, reasonable positions that will preserve the needs and the interests of the Australian people. That is where as a government we have a clear track record. We can acknowledge the global circumstances we have been in. We can protect Australians jobs and the Australian economy. We can improve our education system. We can improve the treatment of people with disability in this country in a way in which our resources show we should. These are all things that we can do, and we can do them in a way which achieves consensus amongst the Australian people to improve things we know we can do better.</para>
<para>There is no question that in a range of policy areas we can, and do, need to improve how we reach people. We need to improve the message we give Australian people about our values and why we are the Australian Labor Party.</para>
<para class="italic">Senator Brandis interjecting—</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator JACINTA COLLINS</name>
    <name.id>GB6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The other side says things like what Senator Brandis is saying right now: 'You are us.' He is glib and very funny—not really!</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Brandis</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>That is your slogan, Jacinta.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator JACINTA COLLINS</name>
    <name.id>GB6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I did not hear myself say it, Senator Brandis. What I have said is that the Labor Party will— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:13</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>For those who are students of history, the events of the last 24 hours—extraordinary and spectacular events—constitute the greatest political collapse of a government in Australian federal political history. There have been times of turbulence on both sides of politics because that is in the nature of politics, but never before, in 112 years, has an incumbent government so comprehensibly collapsed.</para>
<para>With the announcement about half an hour ago of Mr Stephen Smith that he would not be recontesting the election and would be leaving the cabinet, we have had in the last 24 hours the resignation from the cabinet of no fewer than eight of the 22 members of cabinet—more than a third. That has never happened on either side of Australian politics before. That fact alone tells you how unprecedented is the turmoil that has beset the Australian government.</para>
<para>The sad reality is—and it is an ugly sight on display for all Australians to see on their television news and current affairs shows—that the political party that constitutes the government of Australia at the moment, the Australian Labor Party, is deeply riven by the most poisonous personal hatreds and antagonisms that we have ever seen on either side of Australian politics. And that is not just me saying that; that is what they say about themselves.</para>
<para>We have lost eight of the 22 cabinet ministers overnight. But what I want to know—and this was the point of the questions that I and my colleagues asked of Senator Wong—is: what of some of those who are saying and who have in the past expressed their contempt for and lack of confidence in Kevin Rudd, starting with Senator Penny Wong herself, who said that she did not consider that he was the right person or had the right temperament to be the Prime Minister of Australia? Yet not only does she continue to sit in his cabinet but she has been one of the beneficiaries of this political upheaval, because she has become the Leader of the Government in the Senate.</para>
<para>What about Mr Gary Gray, the Minister for Resources and Energy? This is what Mr Gary Gray said about Kevin Rudd only last week:</para>
<quote><para class="block">He doesn't have the courage and the strength that's required to do this job. What he can do is spread confusion.</para></quote>
<para>How can you have a government when one of the senior members of it, who continues to sit in the cabinet, not six days ago described the new Prime Minister as a man without the courage and the strength that is required for the job of Prime Minister?</para>
<para>What about Mr Tony Burke, who continues to sit in the cabinet and who last year described the first period of the Rudd government in these words:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The stories that were around of the chaos, of the temperament, of the inability to have decisions made—they are not stories.</para></quote>
<para>That is what Mr Tony Burke said about Mr Kevin Rudd. Yet Mr Tony Burke continues to sit in his cabinet.</para>
<para>Then there is Mr Brendan O'Connor, who last year said this about the 2010 election campaign, speaking about Mr Kevin Rudd:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… there had been 'unbelievable' leaks during the 2010 election campaign against Ms Gillard and hence the Labor party.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">That is unprecedented in Labor's history, that we would have leaks coming out of cabinet to target the then-prime minister during an election campaign, to aid and abet Tony Abbott to win the 2010 election. That destabilisation, that treachery has gone on now for varying degrees for the last 18 months.</para></quote>
<para>And he was talking about Mr Kevin Rudd.</para>
<para>Eight of the 22 members of the cabinet have resigned and refused to serve. They would rather sit on the backbench or go into retirement than serve with Kevin Rudd. And there are at least another four who do not have the moral courage to do what the others did and resign, and who are on the record saying that they have no trust or confidence in this man.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:18</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Brandis says that he is an historian of politics. Let me go through some history. Problems in either the Labor Party or the coalition are not new. Leadership challenges are not new. I can go back to 1980 or further than that. There was Fraser versus Snedden in 1975. In 1982, there was Fraser versus Peacock. In 1983, there was Peacock versus Howard. In 1985, there was Howard versus Carlton. In 1987, there was Howard versus Peacock. In 1989, there was Peacock versus Howard. Then we had a doozey in 1990: Hewson versus Reith versus Webster. Then in 1993 it was Hewson versus Howard. In 1994, it was Downer versus Hewson. If we move on to 2007, it was Nelson versus Turnbull. In 2008, it was Turnbull versus Nelson. In 2009, it was Abbott versus Turnbull.</para>
<para>If you want to have some analysis of challenges in politics, it is a bit hypocritical for the coalition to come in here and argue that the Labor Party is the only party that has issues with leadership. Leadership is always an issue in the coalition. It always has been and it always will be.</para>
<para>And it is not just fights over leadership. Let me tell you about the big fight within the coalition. It was a fight between the guy who thought he was a great Treasurer, Peter Costello, and the Prime Minister, John Howard. We had a period in which Peter Costello did not have the guts or the backbone to stand up to John Howard and did not have the guts or backbone to stand up for this nation. He allowed John Howard to throw good money after bad on tax cuts, which meant that we could not invest in infrastructure in this country, in children's education or in a national disability insurance scheme. We could do none of those things because there was absolute turmoil during the whole period of the Howard government between John Howard and Peter Costello. And who won that battle? It was John Howard—much to the regret of those who wanted to try to build this country.</para>
<para>But don't take my word for it. Go back to one of our most eminent political commentators: Peter Hartcher, in the <inline font-style="italic">Sydney Morning Herald </inline>on 25 April 2009, said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">At the heart of the Howard government's management of the economy was a raging, unending argument.</para></quote>
<para>And the reason was simple: according to Peter Costello, the Prime Minister believed the public would be grateful to the government for new spending and would vote accordingly. So it was one big bribe from the coalition—no economic position, no building for the future, no spending on public schools; public schools were diminished under the Howard government, health was diminished under the Howard government. So I will not accept for one minute any lectures about instability or any lectures about economic credibility from those economic incompetents across the aisle. I will not accept that for one minute.</para>
<para>Even Senator Sinodinos: what did he say? This is Howard's former chief of staff, now a senator here. He said there was:</para>
<quote><para class="block">"a lucky dip feel", as officials and ministers scrambled to formalise tax cut options and decide which ones would get the go-ahead.</para></quote>
<para>Well, we do not do that. What we do is invest in health, invest in education, invest in infrastructure, invest in the NBN. We make sure the issues we take up are building this economy and building this nation, not like the economic incompetents across the chamber.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:23</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator JOYCE</name>
    <name.id>e5d</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Welcome to the house of Atreus! It is the most bizarre place. I always wanted to know what it was like to live in a Greek tragedy and here we are in the middle of one. It is bizarre; it is the most internecine, crazy place. I now know the Labor Party's policy: you get two for the price of one. If you vote for one Prime Minister, you are bound to get two of them, in every term. Instead of the fortunes of the house of Atreus it is the fortunes of the house of Rudd, the fortunes of the Labor Party.</para>
<para>And now we see all the manifestations of that rather bizarre prototype of a Prime Minister revisiting us. We knew it was getting ugly when we saw Mr Rudd parading through the airport with his sleeping bag. He was obviously a little bit tired—he was going to nod off—so he was parading through the airport with his sleeping bag, just to let you know that he was going to the sleep-out. We all carry our sleeping bags through the airport! I can't get through Canberra Airport without my sleeping bag under my arm! Then, of course, when you are at the sleep-out you must have a media contingent there for when you wake up; it is extremely important. When you wake up and you are putting your teddy bear aside—it is time for Noddy to wake up—you have to have the media there, just to know that, thank the Lord, you are awake! And we are back to the slow walks through the car park, the prophetic glimpses, the sideways looks, the walking with the camera—here comes the bride in the big fluffy white dress!—walking with the camera, walking out the door, walking to the car park, walking to the car. This is the new world—this mad, mad, mad world—that we have returned to. And we are back to 'zipping'. We are zipping here, we are zipping there, we are 'rocking' around the country.</para>
<para>It is not surprising that we not only have a new Prime Minister but that, because of this insanity, as well as losing a Prime Minister, we have also lost a Deputy Prime Minister and a Leader of the Senate—that is the highest office holder, the second-highest office holder and the third-highest office holder, all in one night. That is like the left bower, the right bower and the joker, all gone. And we also lost the defence minister, the minister for agriculture, the minister for communications and the Treasurer. And do we say that this is sanity? Is this what we are offering to the Australian people? 'Buy this product; this one will work.' If you went to your accountancy practice and walked in the door and asked, 'Who are you people?' and they said, 'We just decided last night to change everybody' you would say: 'Give me all the books back. See you later.' If you went into your dentist and all of a sudden there was this manic confusion and change of staff as they pulled out the drill to stick it in your mouth, you would get out of there toute de suite. But these people are not your dentists, these people are not your accountants; they are actually running the country—well, actually we do not know who is running the country. Maybe Lord Howes is running the country. Who would know?</para>
<para>The next thing, of course, is: when is the election? Have we noted that Mr Zip Zip has decided that he is not quite zipping to an election? No, he is going to wait a little while. I can see that happening, because he wants to go back to the Lodge. It is merely weeks, and he wants to go back there; he is moving the furniture back in. But don't worry: he will be sustained on a regular diet of airline food as he goes to every sundry country in the world twice before the election, just to make sure that we have the people of Lesotho onside, just to make sure we are moving the dynamics of things in the Laotian jungles, just to make sure peace reigns in Cyprus. We will have the Prime Minister of Australia, for these last few weeks, in every far-flung corner of the world, giving us press conferences telling us about the importance of the things he is doing. Meanwhile, back in Australia, we head towards $370 billion in gross debt, unemployment rises and we have the crash in the cattle market. Meanwhile back in Australia, chaos reigns.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I will put the question that the motion moved by Senator Abetz be agreed to.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Asylum Seekers</title>
          <page.no>4292</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:29</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LUDLAM</name>
    <name.id>I07</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate take note of the answer given by the Minister for Foreign Affairs (Senator Bob Carr) to a question without notice asked by the Leader of the Australian Greens (Senator Milne) today relating to the treatment of asylum seekers.</para></quote>
<para>The questions were about refugees and the issue of fleeing violence, war and ethnic cleansing in our region and further afield, and how refugees are treated when they reach Australia. Minister Bob Carr gave an extraordinary interview on <inline font-style="italic">Lateline</inline> last night, right in the teeth of the remarkable events of yesterday, which some, certainly from the crossbenches, are starting to feel are getting more than a little repetitive. Nonetheless, following the extraordinary events of yesterday, Minister Carr conducted an extraordinary and quite offensive interview with Tony Jones on <inline font-style="italic">Lateline</inline>, where he effectively laid out where it appears the Labor Party wanted to take the refugee issue as a political tactic, if you will—not as a humanitarian emergency but as a cheap political tactic. Mr Jones asked Minister Bob Carr what Kevin Rudd, the new Prime Minister, is likely to do to change the national conversation—as it was put. Minister Carr, looking down his nose on those of noble sentiments on the issue, wanted, I think, to redefine what we think of as a refugee in the first place.</para>
<para>This so-called spike—this huge number of people who are on the move not just into Australia but around the world—is a political inconvenience for the Labor Party, who have never had the backbone to stand up to the gutter tactics of the opposition and have simply followed them into the gutter. If that has become politically inconvenient enough that it looks as though it might lose them seats, then why don't we just redefine what we call a 'refugee'? Minister Carr said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… we've reached the view that as a result of court and tribunal decisions, it's coming up wrong. We need a tougher, more hard-edged assessment.</para></quote>
<para>Of the people fleeing these situations of horror and violence overseas 93-odd per cent are being found to be refugees—the courts are delivering the wrong answer. So in Minster Carr's assessment we need a tougher, more hard-edged assessment. What he means by that is that we will just change the definition. At the stroke of a pen you are not a refugee at all. You are just some kind of economic parasite using the agency of the people smuggler networks. You are no longer able to call on Australia for safe harbour, as people have been able to do since the horror of the Second World War and the aftermath of that, with the drafting of the refugee conventions. Minister Carr's assessment, whether he is trying to lead the direction a future Rudd government will take or whether he is just off on some tangent of his own, is to redefine those people as not being refugees at all. He said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… they're not people fleeing persecution. They're coming from majority religious or ethnic groups in the countries their fleeing, they're coming here as economic migrants.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">…   …   …</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">… there is an unsustainable spike in their numbers.</para></quote>
<para>So it has become an unsustainable political inconvenience for those in the Labor Party—good people many of them—who stood with the Greens in former times against the horrors and the excesses of the way in which the Howard government conducted the gutter politics on people fleeing violence and persecution. Now, the Labor Party has joined them there.</para>
<para>Last night, and again in question time this afternoon in response to Senator Milne, Minister Carr raised the stakes even further. The courts are doing something inconvenient by finding these pesky refugees, in the range of 93 to 95 per cent, to be genuine refugees. This is a very small number relative to our overall population, but the numbers are larger than we have known before, because of the instability and violence in our region and what people have suffered in the last few years. If that has become politically inconvenient to the Labor Party then why not just redefine them as economic refugees. If you have 50 bucks in your pocket or you have been able to pay somebody to get you on a boat, rather than spending the rest of your life in some camp in a so-called queue that is going nowhere, you are an economic migrant according to Foreign Minister Bob Carr.</para>
<para>The Greens will stand against this kind of abuse—this kind of cheap political tactic at the expense of some of the most vulnerable people on earth. The Greens will insist that Australia remain a safe harbour for people fleeing wars and ethnic cleansing in our region and in other parts of the world. If the Labor Party is choosing to abandon that principle in the teeth of an election, for however long the new Prime Minister decides it should take before there is an election—and let it be sooner rather than later—we will take that issue right up through and beyond the next election so that people will have no doubt at all who is maintaining that humanitarian spirit in this parliament. I hope the Labor Party will rethink this one and that somebody draws Minister Carr back into line.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS</title>
        <page.no>4293</page.no>
        <type>MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Taxation</title>
          <page.no>4293</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:34</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator JACINTA COLLINS</name>
    <name.id>GB6</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I present a ministerial statement made by the Assistant Treasurer, Mr Bradbury, in the House of Representatives on 26 June 2013, entitled 'Securing a stronger, smarter and fairer tax system'.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Defence</title>
          <page.no>4294</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:34</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator JACINTA COLLINS</name>
    <name.id>GB6</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I present a ministerial statement made by the Minister for Defence, Mr Stephen Smith, in the House of Representatives on 26 June 2013, entitled 'Full knowledge and concurrence on joint Defence facilities'.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:35</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LUDLAM</name>
    <name.id>I07</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate take note of the document.</para></quote>
<para>My motion is for the Senate to take note of the document Minister Jacinta Collins has presented on behalf of former Minister for Defence Smith. I acknowledge his comments in the other place, as he has chosen not to recontest at the next election.</para>
<para>This is a remarkably timed document from the former defence minister on our apparent full knowledge and concurrence about United States military and intelligence bases in this country. I say it is incredibly timed given that it comes in the wake of the PRISM scandal, which, with some degree of success, I think, both of the old parties have managed to avoid treating as a scandal, as it is in every other world capital, by simply not making eye contact and pretending that it will all go away. Of course, it will not, but nonetheless.</para>
<para>In this statement we have the Australian government declaring that it has full knowledge of what is going on in the United States bases on our territory. Several members of the United States congress and even a member of the homeland security committee have very recently expressed dismay that they had no idea how invasive and vast their own NSA surveillance activities are. How remarkable it is that Australian policymakers and the defence minister and staff have been brought into the loop that not even United States senior congressional representatives have been brought into.</para>
<para>Intelligence officials have told Fairfax reporters more in off-the-record statements about the PRISM system than parliamentarians have been able to extract from ministers in this place. We learnt, for example, that the new data centre under construction not too far from Canberra will be used to store material that has been extracted from PRISM by colleagues in the United States of the DSD and ASIO. We found that out in the Fairfax press because, when we put a motion up in here to have the Attorney-General make a statement to this parliament, both of the old parties refused to support it. Senator Xenophon and I have asked questions on and without notice, which have been entirely fobbed off, about how much the Australian government knows about the massive surveillance overreach of citizens and whether the privacy of Australians has been breached. We know that it has. Do not treat us like children. We know what is occurring here. I think it would have been helpful for some transparency around the scope of the surveillance overreach, rather than just going into some kind of denial lockdown.</para>
<para>It is just as well that Fairfax journalist Phil Dorling is on the case, as there are so few good national security journalists in this country. There are a number, and Mr Dorling is certainly one of them. Without this small handful of people who track these issues closely, Australians would not know anything about how our government and intelligence officials have these huge volumes of immensely valuable information derived from PRISM and other US signals intelligence collection programs. The government says it has full knowledge and concurrence regarding US bases in Australia. Maybe that was intended to be comforting; I do not find it so. We are told in the statement around the basing of United States Marines in Darwin, an announcement that took the Australian people, and probably also the foreign minister at the time, completely by surprise. This is foreign policy conducted by press release after the key decisions have been made behind closed doors. Being presented with a decision after it has been made is not the same as full knowledge and concurrence, actually.</para>
<para>What knowledge do the Australian people or parliamentarians have about the rights, the roles and the responsibility of US forces while they are here on Australian soil? In November 2012, another Fairfax journalist at the time, Dylan Welch, who is now in Afghanistan, revealed that there was a secret two-page statement of principles relating to Australia and the US military collaboration. It is known as the Australia-United States Force Posture Review Working Group Statement of Principles. Mr Welch put in a freedom of information application about that process, and he was told that a letter from the defence department in the form of a statement of principles relating to Australian and US military collaboration existed. The DOD was obliged to consult with the US government, which, of course, told them not to release the document to Mr Welch. So the Australian people still do not have any knowledge of the underpinnings of a significant expansion of the US military presence into Australia.</para>
<para>The minister mentions North West Cape in his statement. That is in Western Australia. That is a facility that continues to facilitate, enable and support the passage and deployment of nuclear armed submarines. These are offensive attack weapons platforms. Ballistic missile submarines exist for no other purpose than Armageddon one day. They are not tactical weapons. They are not battlefield scale. They contain ballistic missiles with the intention of destroying cities and ending particular civilisations. That is what they are for. This base at North West Cape conducts communications with those vessels. Full knowledge and concurrence? Right.</para>
<para>Australia thereby legitimises the retention and deployment of nuclear weapons. Former and current Prime Minister—it is getting a little bit confusing—and former foreign minister Rudd worked quite hard as a middle power with a bit of diplomatic clout to bring forward the debate around nonproliferation and disarmament, through the commission that we co-chaired with the former foreign minister of Japan. At the same time as that process is trying to get consensus around nonproliferation and disarmament, we are writing into two successive defence white papers that we support the deployment of nuclear weapons in Australia's name. That is on paper. On the ground, the existence of facilities like the North West Cape base are around enabling nuclear weapons deployment, not just in our name but on our soil.</para>
<para>Pine Gap, a nuclear weapons target and a key part of the US missile defence program, is, of course, a major incentive for other nuclear weapons states to keep their arsenals. We learn in the statement that that plays a great role in counterproliferation of nuclear weapons. Do not get me wrong: the extraordinarily sophisticated monitoring network that Australia supports is in our budget and is conducted with our international partners around detecting things like clandestine nuclear detonations, weapons tests and so on. I strongly support that, and we are told that the value of the data obtained on this issue from Pine Gap cannot be underestimated. So Pine Gap has somehow gone from being a secret intelligence facility to an anti-nuclear weapons establishment, which is remarkable. We are told that through this joint facility Australia is able to access intelligence. As we know, Pine Gap monitors radar, cell phones, radio and long-distance telecommunications, allowing it to provide targeting information for US air and ground forces, including drones and UAVs. It is extremely valuable because it is in the Southern Hemisphere. The Australian people do not know who the facility spies on or who is targeted. In 1999 the government refused to provide information about Pine Gap to this parliament's Joint Standing Committee on Treaties. Nothing has changed since then. Although US congressional officials have visited Pine Gap and received classified briefings about its functions, elected representatives and senators are entrusted with less information than can be found online or in a public library.</para>
<para>The Greens support the principle of this government providing statements of explanation such as this. The statement, however, is 90 per cent platitudes and 10 per cent information already in the public domain. Rather noticeably absent is the kind of material that a small handful of national security journalists are making available to the Australian people. It is time that the Australian government actually came clean so that the idea of full knowledge and concurrence does not become some sort of ironic afterthought once material is put into the public domain by a future generation of brave whistleblowers.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>4296</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Report</title>
          <page.no>4296</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:43</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McEWEN</name>
    <name.id>e5e</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I present all committee reports that are listed on today's order of business under items 8 and 10.</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">The list read as follows—</inline></para>
<quote><para class="block">Tabling and consideration of committee reports – pursuant to standing order 62(4)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Chair of the Standing Committee on Publications (Senator Brown) to present 26th report and move for its adoption</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Chair of the Legal and Constitutional Affairs References Committee (Senator Wright) to present report – Current framework and operation of subclass 457 visas, Enterprise Migration Agreements and Regional Migration Agreements</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Government Whip (Senator McEwen) to present reports from legislation committees relating to 2013-14 Budget estimates</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Chair of the Finance and Public Administration Legislation Committee (Senator Polley) to present report – Health Insurance Amendment (Medicare Funding for Certain Types of Abortion) Bill 2013 (pursuant to Selection of Bills Committee report)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Chair of the Legal and Constitutional Affairs Legislation Committee (Senator Crossin) to present report – Criminal Code Amendment (Misrepresentation of Age to a Minor) Bill 2013 (pursuant to Selection of Bills Committee report)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Chair of the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Legislation Committee (Senator Stephens) to present report – Implementation of the Defence Trade Controls legislation</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Chair of the Standing Committee of Senators' Interests (Senator Bernardi) to present report – Statements of registrable interests and notifications of alterations lodged between 28 November 2012 and 26 June 2013</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Chairman of the Standing Committee for the Scrutiny of Bills (Senator Macdonald) to present seventh report and alert digest no. 7 of 2013, together with the work of the committee in the 42nd Parliament: February 2008 to June 2010</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Chair of the Standing Committee on Regulations and Ordinances (Senator Furner) to present the delegated legislation monitor no. 7 for 2013, together with reports:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">No. 114—Report on the work of the committee in the 41st Parliament</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">No. 115—Report on the work of the committee in the 42nd Parliament</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">No. 116—Report on the work of the committee in 2010–11</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">No. 117—Report on the work of the committee in 2011–12</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Senator Stephens, on behalf of the Parliamentary Joint Committee on Human Rights, to present 10th and 11th reports (tabled in the House of Representatives on 26 June 2013)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Deputy Chair of the Parliamentary Joint Committee on the Australian Commission for Law Enforcement Integrity (Senator Cash) to present report – Integrity of overseas Commonwealth law enforcement operations</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Senator Furner, on behalf of the Joint Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade to present report – Review of the Defence Annual Report 2011-12</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Deputy Chair of the Joint Standing Committee on Treaties (Senator McKenzie) to present reports nos 133 and 134</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Government Whip (Senator McEwen), on behalf of the Parliamentary Standing Committee on Public Works, to present report – Referrals made May 2013: Development and construction of housing for Defence at Warner and Enoggera</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Government Whip (Senator McEwen) to present additional information received by the committee relating to its inquiry into the advertising and promotion of gambling services in sport and the Broadcasting Services Amendment (Advertising for Sports Betting) Bill 2013</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Government Whip (Senator McEwen) to present additional information received by committees relating to estimates</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Chair of the Joint Select Committee on Constitutional Recognition of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Peoples (Senator Crossin) to present progress report</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Government Whip (Senator McEwen), on behalf of the Joint Committee of Public Accounts and Audit, to present:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Report no. 439––Review of the Auditor-General's reports nos 11 to 31 (2012–13) (tabled in the House of Representatives on 27 June 2013)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Executive minutes on report no. 434—Annual public hearing with the Commissioner of Taxation (2012) (tabled in the House of Representatives on 27 June 2013)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Executive minutes on report no. 435—Review of Auditor-General's reports nos 33 (2011–12) to 1 (2012–13) (tabled in the House of Representatives on 27 June 2013)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Business of the Senate orders of the day</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">1–Legal and Constitutional Affairs References Committee – Report – Current framework and operation of subclass 457 visas, Enterprise Migration Agreements and Regional Migration Agreements</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">2–Legislation Committees – Reports – 2013-14 Budget estimates</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">3–Finance and Public Administration Legislation Committee – Report – Health Insurance Amendment (Medicare Funding for Certain Types of Abortion) Bill 2013 [Provisions] (pursuant to Selection of Bills Committee report)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">4–Legal and Constitutional Affairs Legislation Committee – Report – Criminal Code Amendment (Misrepresentation of Age to a Minor) Bill 2013 (pursuant to Selection of Bills Committee report)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">5–Education, Employment and Workplace Relations References Committee – Report – Effectiveness of NAPLAN</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">6–Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade References Committee – Report – Victims of sexual and other abuse in Defence</para></quote>
<para>Ordered that the reports be printed.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McEWEN</name>
    <name.id>e5e</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That report No. 26 of the Publications Committee be adopted.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Government Response to Report</title>
          <page.no>4298</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:43</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>On behalf of the President, and in accordance with the usual practice, I table a report of parliamentary committee reports to which the government has not responded within the prescribed period. The report has been circulated to senators. With the concurrence of the Senate, the report will be incorporated in <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline>.</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">The documents read as follows—</inline></para>
<quote><para class="block">PRESIDENT ' S REPORT TO THE SENATE ON GOVERNMENT RESPONSES OUTSTANDING TO PARLIAMENTARY COMMITTEE REPORTS</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">AS AT 27 JUNE 2013</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">PREFACE</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This document continues the practice of presenting to the Senate twice each year a list of government responses to Senate and joint committee reports as well as responses which remain outstanding.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The practice of presenting this list to the Senate is in accordance with the resolution of the Senate of 14 March 1973 and the undertaking by successive governments to respond to parliamentary committee reports in timely fashion. On 26 May 1978 the Minister for Administrative Services (Senator Withers) informed the Senate that within six months of the tabling of a committee report, the responsible minister would make a statement in the Parliament outlining the action the government proposed to take in relation to the report. The period for responses was reduced from six months to three months in 1983 by the incoming government. The Leader of the Government in the Senate announced this change on 24 August 1983. The method of response continued to be by way of statement. Subsequently, on 16 October 1991 [tabled 5 Nov 1991] the government advised that responses to committee reports would be made by letter to a committee chair, with the letter being tabled in the Senate at the earliest opportunity. The government affirmed this commitment in June 1996 to respond to relevant parliamentary committee reports within three months of presentation. The current government indicated on 26 June and 4 December 2008 that it is committed to providing timely responses to parliamentary committee reports1.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Although, on 29 September 2010, the House agreed to a resolution which places a six month response time on House and joint committee reports tabled in the House2, the Senate has not agreed to a similar resolution. Therefore, this list is prepared on the basis of a three month reporting undertaking for Senate and joint committee reports tabled in the Senate.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This list does not usually include reports of the Parliamentary Standing Committee on Public Works, the Parliamentary Joint Committee on Human Rights or the following Senate Standing Committees: Appropriations and Staffing, Privileges, Procedure, Publications, Regulations and Ordinances, Scrutiny of Bills, Selection of Bills and Senators' Interests. However, such reports will be included if they require a response. Government responses to reports of the Public Works Committee are normally reflected in motions in the House of Representatives for the approval of works after the relevant report has been presented and considered.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Reports of the Joint Committee of Public Accounts and Audit (JCPAA) primarily make administrative recommendations but may make policy recommendations. A government response is required in respect of such policy recommendations made by the committee. However, responses to administrative recommendations are made in the form of an executive minute provided to, and subsequently tabled by, the committee. Agencies responding to administrative recommendations are required to provide an executive minute within six months of the tabling of a report. The committee monitors the provision of such responses.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">An entry on this list for a report of the JCPAA containing only administrative recommendations is annotated to indicate that the response is to be provided in the form of an executive minute. Consequently, any other government response is not required. However, any reports containing policy recommendations are included in this report as requiring a government response.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Senate committees report on bills and the provisions of bills. Only those reports in this category that make recommendations which cannot readily be addressed during the consideration of the bill, and therefore require a response, are listed. The list also does not include reports by committees on estimates or scrutiny of annual reports, unless recommendations are made that require a response.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">A guide to the legend used in the ' Date response presented/made to the Senate ' column</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">* See document tabled in the Senate on 27 June 2013, entitled <inline font-style="italic">Government Responses to Parliamentary Committee Reports–Response to the schedule tabled by the President of the Senate on 29 November 2012 </inline>for Government interim/final response.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">** Report contains administrative recommendations – any response to those recommendations is to be provided to the JCPAA committee in the form of an executive minute.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> </para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">______________</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">1 See House of Representatives Hansard, 26 June 2008, p6131 and 4 December 2008, p1263, and Journals of the Senate, 4 December 2008, p1447</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">2 See House of Representatives Votes and Proceedings, 29 September 2010, p44</para></quote>
<para> </para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Broadcasting of Parliamentary Proceedings Committee</title>
          <page.no>4314</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Report</title>
            <page.no>4314</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:44</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>On behalf of the President, I present the report of the Joint Committee on the Broadcasting of Parliamentary Proceedings on general principles and standing determinations. With the concurrence of the Senate, I would like to incorporate a statement in <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline> on behalf the President.</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">The statement read as follows—</inline></para>
<quote><para class="block">Tabling Statement</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Broadcasting of Parliamentary Proceedings: General Principles and Standing</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Determinations</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">For the information of Senators I present the General Principles for the radio broadcasting of Parliamentary proceedings by the Australian Broadcasting Corporation. These general principles have been adopted by the Joint Committee on the Broadcasting of Parliamentary Proceedings and are being tabled in both Houses, pursuant to the requirements of the Parliamentary Proceedings Broadcasting Act.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The General Principles set out in this report determine that the allocation of broadcasts between the two Houses should be approximately equal and that Question Time in the House not being broadcast live should be rebroadcast later that day.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">These General Principles are essentially the same as those currently in force and detailed at the back of the Standing Orders, but have been written in a more contemporary style.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">To come into force, the General Principles must be adopted by both Houses. I expect a motion to that end in the near future as part of a broader redrafting of the resolutions concerning the broadcasting of proceedings.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The General Principles are complimented by Standing Determinations which provide more detailed advice to the ABC for the radio broadcasts.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I encourage Senators to look at the report and I thank the Joint Committee on the Broadcasting of Parliamentary Proceedings for drafting both the General Principles and the Standing Determinations.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I commend the report to the Senate.</para></quote>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Legal and Constitutional Affairs References Committee, Environment, Communications, Information Technology and the Arts Committee</title>
          <page.no>4314</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Government Response to Report</title>
            <page.no>4314</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:44</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator JACINTA COLLINS</name>
    <name.id>GB6</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I present two government responses to committee reports, as listed in item 15 on today's order of business. In accordance with the usual practice I seek leave to have the documents incorporated in <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline><inline font-style="italic">.</inline></para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">The documents read as follows—</inline></para>
<quote><para class="block">Government Response to the Senate Legal and Constitutional Affairs References Committee Report: Prospective Marriage Visa program</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">June 2013</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">INTRODUCTION</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">On 23 November 2011, the Senate referred the following matter to the Legal and Constitutional Affairs Committee for inquiry and report by 1 March 2012:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) the number of Prospective Marriage (Subclass 300) visa applications and grants by post, officer, nationality, age of applicant and sponsor;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) the risk and incidence of fraud under the Prospective Marriage (subclass 300) visa program, including the incidence of cases where prospective marriages did not occur;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) the incidence of Prospective Marriage (Subclass 300) visa applicants and sponsors who entered into an arranged marriage;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(d) the administration, application and effectiveness of eligibility criteria in relation to the Prospective Marriage (Subclass 300) visa program, with a special focus on, but not limited to, protections against fraud, age differences, regard for cultural practices and relationship criteria;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(e) the sufficiency and suitability of assessment procedures to protect against fraud and to ascertain the reliability of consent of an applicant for a Prospective Marriage (Subclass 300) visa, where it is believed the applicant will be entering into an arranged marriage;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(f) whether current policies and practices of the Australian Government with regard to the Prospective Marriage (Subclass 300) visa or other visa categories are facilitating forced marriages;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(g) the policies and practices that could strengthen protections against fraud and for women in other countries applying for a Prospective Marriage (Subclass 300) visa, from entering into a forced marriage; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(h) any other related matters.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Committee tabled the final report for the inquiry on 26 June 2012. The Committee found that there is a high level of integrity within the Prospective Marriage visa program, and concluded that no wide-scale reform of the program is needed. The Committee did however, make the following recommendations:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 1</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">5.14 The committee recommends that:</para></quote>
<list>The Department of Immigration and Citizenship institute a formal requirement for Prospective Marriage visa program decision-makers to separately interview all applicants and sponsors under the age of 18; and</list>
<list>The Australian Government increase the minimum age of visa holders within the Prospective Marriage visa program to 18 years of age to help minimize the incidence of forced marriage and human trafficking in Australia.</list>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 2</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">5.22 The committee recommends that the Department of Immigration and Citizenship consider modifying its electronic database to enable statistical reporting on the incidence of fraud within the Prospective Marriage visa program (noting that this information is collected but not centrally recorded by the Department of Immigration and Citizenship).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 3</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">5.23 The committee recommends that:</para></quote>
<list>the Australian Government amend the Migration Regulations 1994 to allow Prospective Marriage visa holders to have access to the family violence exceptions, as recommended by the Australian Law Reform Commission in its report, Family Violence and Commonwealth Laws—Improving legal Frameworks; and</list>
<list>the Department of Immigration and Citizenship investigate and implement appropriate integrity measures to facilitate the application of the family violence exception to Prospective Marriage visa holders.</list>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 4</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">5.24 The committee recommends that the Australian Government should develop a specific prosecution policy for the offences contained in Subdivision B of Division 12 of Part 2 of the <inline font-style="italic">Migration Act 1958</inline> and, after implementation, continue to update the policy as necessary.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 5</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">5.34 The committee recommends that the Department of Immigration and Citizenship:</para></quote>
<list>investigate and implement a way in which to record the non-consent of one party to a Prospective Marriage visa application , which takes into account the safety and well-being of that party should the other party or the member of the party's family become aware of the disclosure of a forced marriage; and</list>
<list>amend the Procedures Advice Manual to expressly require Prospective Marriage visa program decision-makers to investigate and assess 'real consent' of applicants and sponsors as far as possible.</list>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 6</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">5.35 The committee recommends that the Australian Government consider establishing a working group to investigate the incidence of forced marriages in Australia and to explore relevant options for assisting victims.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 7</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">5.36 The committee recommends that the Department of Immigration and Citizenship develop an information package for newly arrived migrants on a Prospective Marriage visa or Partner visa, which informs such migrants about:</para></quote>
<list>the law in Australia with respect to family violence and forced marriages, including factors which might indicate the existence of a forced marriage; and</list>
<list>how migrants experiencing family violence or a potential or actual forced marriage can seek assistance.</list>
<quote><para class="block">BACKGROUND</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Prospective Marriage visa program allows prospective partners of Australian citizens, Australian permanent residents or Eligible New Zealand citizens to enter Australia, marry and apply for permanent residency in Australia.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Prospective Marriage visa is a temporary visa that must be lodged and decided outside Australia. It is valid for nine months from the date it is issued, and there is no provision for its validity to be extended after the holder arrives in Australia.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">To satisfy the requirements for a Prospective Marriage visa, the applicant and sponsor must, among other things, be:</para></quote>
<list>18 years of age; or</list>
<list>able to show that they will turn 18 at the date of intended marriage; or</list>
<list>have an Australian court order authorizing the marriage;</list>
<list>of the opposite sex to each other;</list>
<list>known to each other personally and have met in person (as adults);</list>
<list>in a genuine and mutually exclusive relationship;</list>
<list>free to marry;</list>
<list>genuine in their intent to marry and live together as husband and wife; and</list>
<list>intending to enter into a marriage that is recognized under Australian law (the <inline font-style="italic">Marriage Act 1961</inline>)</list>
<quote><para class="block">In addition, Prospective Marriage visa applicants must meet certain health and character requirements. Where the application includes persons under the age of 18, the sponsor is also required to satisfy certain character requirements to support the protection of children.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The relationship between the applicant and sponsor is assessed via a range of measures including:</para></quote>
<list>requirement to provide evidence in support of their claims, including statutory declarations from third parties;</list>
<list>scrutiny of evidence provided, including document verification, interviews and home visits;</list>
<list>joint and/or separate interviews with sponsors and applicants; and</list>
<list>country/culture specific risk matrices developed by individual overseas posts to assist with visa application risk management.</list>
<quote><para class="block">In addition, and as far as practicable, migration regulations requires the couple to demonstrate their commitment to the relationship through assessment of the following four factors:</para></quote>
<list>Financial aspects;</list>
<list>Nature of the household;</list>
<list>Social context of the relationship; and</list>
<list>Nature of the couple's commitment to each other.</list>
<quote><para class="block">After the visa holder has entered Australia and married their prospective spouse, who is usually their sponsor, they are expected to lodge a combined Partner (Subclass 820/801) visa application before their Prospective Marriage visa ceases to be in effect.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Government's responses to the specific recommendations in the Report are set out below.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 1</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">5.14 The committee recommends that:</para></quote>
<list>The Department of Immigration and Citizenship institute a formal requirement for Prospective Marriage visa program decision-makers to separately interview all applicants and sponsors under the age of 18; and</list>
<list>The Australian Government increase the minimum age of visa holders within the Prospective Marriage visa program to 18 years of age to help minimize the incidence of forced marriage and human trafficking in Australia.</list>
<quote><para class="block">Response: Accept</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government accepts the Committee's recommendation to formalise the policy in relation to interviewing all Prospective Marriage visa applicants under the age of 18 separate from their sponsor or family members.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government also accepts the recommendation to increase the minimum age of visa holders within the Prospective Marriage visa caseload to 18 years of age.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Whilst the Department of Immigration and Citizenship's (the Department) current policy does not require Prospective Marriage visa applicants under the age of 18 to be interviewed as part of the visa process, the current practice is that all applicants in this category are interviewed, either in person or by telephone.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Department will amend the Procedures Advice Manual (PAM), which guides decision makers on how to process Prospective Marriage visa applications, to reflect the requirement to interview all visa applicants under the age of 18.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Current Prospective Marriage legislation mirrors the provisions of the Marriage Act by allowing a Prospective Marriage visa to be granted to a person under the age of 18, provided they demonstrate they will have turned 18 by the date of intended marriage or have an Australian court order. Similarly, a visa application can be refused if the relationship is assessed as one that does not have the consent of both parties. Nonetheless, the Government accepts that there are benefits to be gained in increasing the age of Prospective Marriage visa holders to 18, and that the advantages would outweigh the disadvantages.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government will take steps to amend the <inline font-style="italic">Migration Regulations 1994</inline> (the Regulations) to stipulate that a person must be at least 18 years of age when they apply for a Prospective Marriage visa.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 2</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">5.25 The committee recommends that the Department of Immigration and Citizenship consider modifying its electronic database to enable statistical reporting on the incidence of fraud within the Prospective Marriage visa program (noting that this information is collected but not centrally recorded by the Department of Immigration and Citizenship).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response: Accept</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government accepts the Committee's recommendation to enable reporting on incidents of fraud with the Prospective Marriage visa program.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government will pursue a regulation amendment to include a public interest criterion that relates specifically to fraud as a requirement for grant of a Prospective Marriage visa. The changes, which are expected to come into effect during 2013, would enable data relating to refusal on fraud grounds to be reported on statistically.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 3</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">5.26 The committee recommends that:</para></quote>
<list>the Australian Government amend the Migration Regulations 1994 to allow Prospective Marriage visa holders to have access to the family violence exceptions, as recommended by the Australian Law Reform Commission in its report, Family Violence and Commonwealth Laws—Improving legal Frameworks; and</list>
<list>the Department of Immigration and Citizenship investigate and implement appropriate integrity measures to facilitate the application of the family violence exception to Prospective Marriage visa holders.</list>
<quote><para class="block">Response: Noted</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes the Committee's support of the Australian Law Reform Commission's (ALRC) recommendation to extend the family violence provisions to Prospective Marriage visa holders who have not married their sponsor.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government is currently considering the ALRC's recommendations in relation to family violence and Prospective Marriage visa holders.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In considering this recommendation, the Department is exploring what options, if any, would support their implementation while maintaining program integrity. For example, the Department is considering the option of requiring additional checks for sponsors who have a history of family violence as an added protection measure in the Prospective Marriage caseload, or requiring the visa holder to have traveled to Australia and lived with their sponsoring partner in a spouse-like relationship before allowing them access to the family violence provisions.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Furthermore, the Department is considering how the recommendations will impact on other areas of migration law. For example, implementing the recommendation would require changing the family violence definition to allow family violence to occur outside the relationship, and amending the Partner visa (Subclass 820 and 801) regulations to enable Prospective Marriage visa holders who have not married their sponsoring partner to apply for the visa.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 4</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">5.27 The committee recommends that the Australian Government should develop a specific prosecution policy for the offences contained in Subdivision B of Division 12 of Part 2 of the <inline font-style="italic">Migration Act 1958</inline> and, after implementation, continue to update the policy as necessary.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response: Noted</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Department notes the Committee's recommendation to develop a specific prosecution policy for the offences contained in Subdivision B of Division 12 of Part 2 of the <inline font-style="italic">Migration Act 1958</inline> (the Act).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Act contains a number of provisions relating to contrived relationship offences. Section 240 and 241 of the Act focus on organizers who seek to arrange a marriage or a de facto relationship in support of a visa application. These offences carry a penalty of $100,000 or imprisonment for 10 years, or both.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Section 243 prohibits a party to a marriage or de facto relationship from lodging a visa for permanent stay in Australia when the applicant does not intend to live permanently with the other party in that relationship. This offence carries a penalty of up to two years imprisonment.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Section 245 of the Act prohibits third parties from intentionally providing false or misleading statements and information to the department concerning whether or not other persons are in a de facto or married relationship. This carries a penalty of up to 12 months imprisonment.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The above provisions are underpinned by section 234 of the Act which prohibits the supply of false or misleading information and documents to the Department.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Based on its experience, the Department is of the view that, where possible, administrative action such as visa cancellation or refusal, is a more practical option for dealing with cases involving fraud, as opposed to considering prosecution.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Department also has preventative measures in place, as detailed in its submission, to identify and respond to sham relationships.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 5</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">5.34 The committee recommends that the Department of Immigration and Citizenship:</para></quote>
<list>investigate and implement a way in which to record the non-consent of one party to a Prospective Marriage visa application, which takes into account the safety and well-being of that party should the other party or the member of the party's family become aware of the disclosure of a forced marriage; and</list>
<list>amend the Procedures Advice Manual to expressly require Prospective Marriage visa program decision-makers to investigate and assess 'real consent' of applicants and sponsors as far as possible.</list>
<quote><para class="block">Response: Accept</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Department already has arrangements in place which allow its officers to record the non-consent of one of the parties to a Prospective Marriage visa application in such a way that enables this information to be prevented from being disclosed to a third party.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government agrees to investigate and implement ways of utilizing this 'non-disclosable' information to refuse a visa application without compromising the safety of the non-consenting party. This will include canvassing ways of working with the Migration Review Tribunal to ensure consistency in approach and decision making.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government also accepts the recommendation to amend the Procedures Advice Manual to expressly require Prospective Marriage visa program decision makers to investigate and assess 'real consent' of applicants and sponsors as far as possible.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Marriage Act 1961 (the Marriage Act) stipulates that the legal age for marriage in Australia is 18. The Marriage Act does allow persons under the age of 18 to marry, however, sufficient safeguards have been put in place in relation to underage and forced marriage. These provisions meet Australia's obligations under Article 16(2) of the Convention of the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination against women, which require State parties, among other things, to specify a minimum age for marriage, and states that the marriage of a child has no legal effect.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Section 23B of the Marriage Act provides that a marriage is also void where the consent of either of the parties is not real consent because:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) it was obtained by duress or fraud;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) that party is mistaken as to the identity of the other party or as to the nature of the ceremony performed; or</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(iii) that party is mentally incapable of understanding the nature and effect of the marriage ceremony.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">There are adequate legal grounds to refuse a Prospective Marriage visa if there is no 'real consent' as the intended marriage would not be valid in Australia. The proposed PAM update will guide decision makers accordingly.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Department has already commenced a number of measures to highlight the issue of 'real consent' and provide guidance to decision makers on detecting and dealing with cases where this may be of concern. These measures include the introduction of a specific question in the visa and sponsorship application forms from November 2012 which will require both applicant and sponsor to declare if they have entered into the relationship freely and without any force or coercion.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This will be followed by the development of specific guidelines to be included in the Procedures Advice Manual on how to detect and assess 'real consent' of applicants and sponsors while processing a Prospective Marriage visa application, as well as what action to take if it is established that consent has not been given. It must, however, be acknowledged that consent is a abstract concept and so, while decision makers should turn their minds to it, there will continue to be practical difficulties in assessing the genuineness of consent.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">When collecting and recording personal and sensitive information, departmental officers must comply with the Information Privacy Principles of the <inline font-style="italic">Privacy Act 1988</inline>, including information relating to non-consent to a marriage. The challenge the Department faces is therefore not in recording information that a party does not consent to an intended marriage, but rather using it as the reason for refusing a visa application. This is because the legislation requires decision makers to disclose to the visa applicant all adverse information that will form the reason or part of the reason for a refusal decision, except where the information is '<inline font-style="italic">non-disclosable</inline>'.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Section 5(1) of the Migration Act sets out the definition of non-disclosable information, that being:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">'non-disclosable information' means information or matter:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) whose disclosure would, in the Minister's opinion, be contrary to the national interest because it would:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">prejudice the security, defence or international relations of Australia; or</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">involve the disclosure of deliberations or decisions of the Cabinet or of a committee of the Cabinet; or</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) whose disclosure would, in the Minister's opinion, be contrary to the public interest for a reason which could form the basis of a claim by the Crown in right of the Commonwealth in judicial proceedings; or</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) whose disclosure would found an action by a person, other than the Commonwealth, for breach of confidence;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">and includes any document containing, or any record of, such information or matter.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Despite the provision to exempt non-disclosable information from being included in a refusal decision record, the decision must, as a minimum, contain the legislative criteria that have not been met. Whilst this may protect the source that provided the information and reasons why the criteria have not been met, the mere fact that a specific criterion has not been met may still be enough to alert the sponsor and possibly third parties, such as the applicant's family, that the Department has become aware of the applicant (or sponsor's) non-consent, which may, in turn, compromise that person's safety.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Department will continue to work in conjunction with the Migration Review Tribunal to develop sensitive and consistent approaches to cases where a party does not freely consent to a relationship.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 6</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">5.37 The committee recommends that the Australian Government consider establishing a working group to investigate the incidence of forced marriages in Australia and to explore relevant options for assisting victims.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response: Accept in principle</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government accepts in principle the need to investigate instances of forced marriage in Australia and explore options for assisting victims. However, given that a number of Government agencies are currently working to address these and other issues through several forums and initiatives, the Government's view is that these matters are best addressed through existing forums rather than the creation of a new working group.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Attorney General's Department is the lead agency on matters relating to the policy and legislation which govern forced marriage in Australia. New laws criminalising forced marriage were introduced in 2013. Under these laws, forced marriage offences will carry a maximum penalty of four years imprisonment or seven years imprisonment for an aggravated offence where the victim is under the age of 18, is subject to cruel or inhuman or degrading treatment, or is put at risk of death or serious harm.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Following passage of legislation criminalizing forced marriage, suspected victims of forced marriage may be eligible for access to the Support for Trafficked People Program, which is administered by the Department of Families, Housing, Community Services and Indigenous Affairs and delivered by the Australian Red Cross. However, under the existing legislative framework, a victim of forced marriage may already be eligible for the Support Program if he or she is also the victim of a slavery, slavery-like, or people trafficking offence.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Institute of Criminology is currently undertaking research on the role marriage plays in offences involving the trafficking of persons. In specific, the research related to investigations instances where marriage has been used to facilitate trafficking or related exploitations.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Department of Immigration and Citizenship will undertake a research project during 2013 to collate existing literature on violence against migrant women and forced marriages among migrants. This will include working with stakeholders to identify options for further research and collaboration.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 7</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">5.38 The committee recommends that the Department of Immigration and Citizenship develop an information package for newly arrived migrants on a Prospective Marriage visa or Partner visa, which informs such migrants about:</para></quote>
<list>the law in Australia with respect to family violence and forced marriages, including factors which might indicate the existence of a forced marriage; and</list>
<list>how migrants experiencing family violence or a potential or actual forced marriage can seek assistance.</list>
<quote><para class="block">Response: Accept in principle</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government accepts the recommendation, and the Department will work with other stakeholders to provide as much information as possible to potential visa applicants, newly arrived migrants and the wider community about the law in Australia with respect to family violence and forced marriages.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Department has a number of publications which contain information for newly arrived migrants on the law in Australia with respect to family violence. The most comprehensive publication, entitled <inline font-style="italic">Beginning Life in Australia</inline>, is available on the Department's website in 37 community languages.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Evidence given at the Committee's public hearing of 25 May 2012 suggests that educating the wider community, particularly English language and settlement service providers, could be a more effective way of making information accessible to visa holders.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Department will review the current information products, which include <inline font-style="italic">Beginning a Life in Australia</inline> and <inline font-style="italic">Booklet 1: Partner Migration</inline> to ensure they contain adequate information about support services and options available for victims of family violence or forced marriages.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In addition, the Department will ensure this information is available more widely than just through its website, for example, by disseminating it to settlement service providers and Adult Migrant English Language Program (AMEP) centres who are more likely to come in contact with potentially affected persons through the services they provide.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Department will also consider engaging with non-government organizations, through the National Roundtable on People Trafficking, to distribute the information to a wider network to raise awareness within the community on forced marriage issues, particularly in the migration context.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australian Government response to the former Senate Standing Committee on Environment, Communications, Information Technology and the Arts report:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Conserving Australia: Australia</inline> <inline font-style="italic">'</inline> <inline font-style="italic">s national parks, conservation reserves and marine protected areas (April 2007)</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Government welcomes the opportunity to respond to the report by the former Senate Standing Committee on Environment, Communications, Information Technology and the Arts, <inline font-style="italic">Conserving Australia: Australia</inline><inline font-style="italic">'</inline><inline font-style="italic">s national parks, conservation reserves and marine protected areas</inline> (the report), tabled in April 2007. The Committee examined the funding and resourcing of Australia's national parks, conservation reserves and marine protected areas under the former Howard Government.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australian governments have long recognised that our natural environment is under threat. Climate change is a major threat, but it is not the only one. Our biodiversity, our clean air, our fresh water, our oceans, landscapes and special places are also under threat from the long established impacts of human use, including land clearing, urban development, invasive species, pollution and unsustainable use of natural resources.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Government has taken a pro-active approach to natural resource management and environment conservation through national reform in a number of key areas, including the way in which our environmental and natural resource assets are protected and funded. There have been major investments in our national parks, conservation reserves and marine protected areas and a shift in approach that prioritises investment in the skills and knowledge of our communities, including Indigenous Australians, to foster more effective partnerships with regional and other organisations to deliver landscape-scale change.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">A number of issues identified in the report have been addressed and prioritised for funding under the first phase of Caring for our Country, and the government announced in the 2012‑13 Budget the continuation of this initiative for another five years from 2013-14 to 2017-18.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In November 2012, the Australian Government announced the proclamation of 40 new Commonwealth marine reserves. This brings to an end the development of the Commonwealth waters component of the National Representative System of Marine Protected Areas, as agreed by all Australian governments in 1998. The new reserves came into effect on 17 November 2012. They comprise the Coral Sea Commonwealth Marine Reserve and the South-west, North-west, North and Temperate East Commonwealth marine reserves networks. These reserves are in addition to the existing South-east Commonwealth marine reserve network (established in 2007), Heard Island and McDonald Islands Marine Reserve (established in 2002) and the Great Barrier Reef Marine Park. The new Commonwealth marine reserves add more than 2.3 million square kilometres to Australia's marine reserve estate, resulting in a total area of 3.1 million square kilometres of Commonwealth waters (across 60 reserves) being managed primarily for biodiversity conservation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Other initiatives have included: the continued engagement of Indigenous peoples to declare and manage Indigenous Protected Areas; development of the National Wildlife Corridors Plan; and support offered to land managers through the Biodiversity Fund under the Clean Energy Future Plan.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Table 1 presents the Australian Government's response to the majority report of the Committee.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Greens, while supporting many of the recommendations of the majority report, identified a number of key recommendations that they did not support as well as issues which they believed had not been given adequate consideration. These comments were presented as a minority report.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">As with issues raised in the majority report, the Australian Government has progressed a number of these issues through new and ongoing initiatives. For example, the Biodiversity Fund is seeking to address the impacts of climate change on our biodiversity, including through funding for the management of threats to protected areas as well as privately owned land. Similarly, the Australian Government has established the National Wildlife Corridors Plan which embeds the concept of resilience into managing Australia's private and publicly-owned and managed land. Table 2 presents the Australian Government's response to the minority report.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> </para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> </para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"><inline font-style="italic">Table 1.</inline> Majority Report of the Senate Standing Committee on Environment, Communications, Information Technology and the Arts</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Table 2. Minority Report from the Australian Greens</inline></para></quote>
<para> </para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>AUDITOR-GENERAL'S REPORTS</title>
        <page.no>4329</page.no>
        <type>AUDITOR-GENERAL'S REPORTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Reports Nos 52, 53, 54 and 55 of 2012-13</title>
          <page.no>4329</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:44</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>In accordance with the provisions of the Auditor-General Act 1997, I present four reports of the Auditor-General as listed at on today's order of business:</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">The list read as follows—</inline></para>
<quote><para class="block">Reports of the Auditor-General:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">No. 52 of 2012-13 – Performance audit – Management of debt relief arrangements: Australian Taxation Office</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">No. 53 of 2012-13 – Performance audit – Agencies’ implementation of Performance Audit recommendations</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">No. 54 of 2012-13 – Performance audit – Administration of Government Advertising Arrangements: August 2011 to March 2013</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">No. 55 of 2012-13 – Performance audit – Indigenous Employment: The Australian Government's Contribution to the Australian Employment Covenant: Department of Education, Employment and Workplace Relations</para></quote>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>4330</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Tabling</title>
          <page.no>4330</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BILLS</title>
        <page.no>4330</page.no>
        <type>BILLS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Competition and Consumer Amendment Bill 2013</title>
          <page.no>4330</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" style="" background="" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint">
            <a type="Bill" href="r5073">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Competition and Consumer Amendment Bill 2013</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>4330</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:45</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RYAN</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak on behalf of the opposition in a somewhat truncated debate in support of the Competition and Consumer Amendment Bill 2013. The coalition are pleased to support this bill. We are always keen to support legislation that eases the regulatory burden on small business. We believe that in this case the government are a little late coming to the party, but they have at least turned up, finally. They are not bearing a gift that is necessarily remarkable, but they have brought something that is of some value to the small business community. What they have presented is this legislation and, while I have said that it is a bit late, we believe it is a positive piece of legislation as it cuts the regulatory burden for restaurant and cafe owners in the hospitality industry without adversely affecting the customer's right to pricing integrity and information.</para>
<para>We should all make sure in this place that we do all we can to support the small business community, and there are many reasons for this. Families run small businesses and small business people are often leaders in our communities. When you walk around our towns, cities and suburbs, and when you look around the suburban football ground, or around the local netball fields or soccer fields, you do not see names, necessarily, of larger companies. What you often see are the names of the local newsagent, the local panel beater or the local pharmacy. These small businesses are not just the economic driver for our community; they are so often the glue that makes our communities the places we want to live, bring up a family and share times with friends and family.</para>
<para>Often the leaders of our local community organisations or also small business people. Again, they can be the local pharmacist who runs the CFA, the local newsagent or the local parent, who might be a mechanic, who runs the school P&C and supports the local football club, or is the coach for the school footy or netball team. These are the things that are not always taken into account by economic statistics, but they are so important to the communities that we live in. When I say that small business people are the glue of our communities, I do not mean to disregard those who might work for other companies. I have worked for one of the world's largest companies.</para>
<para>One of the benefits and privileges of a parliamentary role is the ability to see so many different parts of Australia. Whether I am travelling around my home state of Victoria, through my home city of Melbourne, or through regional Australia and other states, I see that the role small business people play is very important to every community that I visit. It is important in the good times when things are going well, when local footy clubs and netball teams are winning flags, and it is also particularly important in the tough times. Australia has seen too many tough times with natural disasters in the last few years. In my home state of Victoria we had the tragedy of the Black Saturday bushfires and in Queensland we had the tragedy of the great floods. In both cases, when you looked at the local SES, you saw that it was the people that ran or worked in small businesses who were often the first to put up their hands to do something.</para>
<para>This bill particularly impacts the 38,000 restaurants and cafes in Australia that generate about $29 billion per year in turnover. That is not an insignificant amount. Restaurants and cafes have another critical role, often, in providing first jobs for people. How many people got their first job as a waiter or washing dishes? Whether you were a uni student or still at high school you might have got a job at a local cafe, restaurant, reception centre or something like that. The hospitality sector is so important for that entry point into the labour market. Sometimes, in the grand scheme of things in this place and with all the policy apparatus that politicians and government have at their fingertips, we often forget really basic and important points. Someone's first job is not usually their last, and the point at which someone enters the labour market is not always where they stay as they usually climb up the ladder fairly quickly, but you have to provide those entry points. That is also true for re-entry points for those who may have been unemployed for a period of time.</para>
<para>The hospitality sector is relatively unique in that it is overwhelmingly a small-business sector. These are businesses, often not even companies, that do not have different departments. Their legal, compliance, advertising and human resources departments are on various parts of the kitchen table at home on various nights of the week. They are mum-and-dad businesses, who put up their own capital and often risk their own home. They wear multiple hats and they do everything for the business. They might be the person who acts as the cook, or the person who acts as the cleaner, and they are often the person who does both. They go to the markets to buy supplies, they meet with the accountant, they do the tax form, they fill out the BAS and they have to take care of employing people. As I said, it is these local businesses that support our local sporting clubs and community organisations.</para>
<para>This bill addresses an issue that I will turn to in a minute, but it specifically addresses a burden of the law that is substantial in this sector of the small business community—the hospitality sector. That is why the coalition support this particular legislation. For the context of the problem that this legislation deals with we have to go back to 2009 to understand the purpose of this bill. In 2009 a detailed provision was added to what used to be called the Trade Practices Act and is now the Competition and Consumer Act—but I will probably make the mistake of calling it the Trade Practices Act again, as many do. The 2009 change added a so-called component pricing provision which introduced a requirement for restaurants and cafes to detail any additional surcharges into the actual prices listed on menus. This ensured that costs linked to weekends, after hours or public holidays, usually labour rates and penalty rates, were made clear to customers. To some it seemed reasonable at the time. The problem, however, was again with this government's implementation of this regulation. A cafe was not allowed to put an asterisk or a statement at the bottom of a menu that indicated a surcharge for an extra cost, for example, on a weekend or on public holidays. Restaurants were not regarded as compliant if they had explanations of additional costs on the menus. The requirements were so detailed that, in order to comply, restaurants and cafes had to design, produce, print and maintain additional menus that outlined all the extra surcharge costs that were included in their pricing arrangements. To comply with this, not only would the menus have to be replaced—if it were, for example, a Sunday surcharge—but, if there were a blackboard upon which someone wrote the specials, it would have to have a sheet hung over it or it would have to be rewritten every day that there was going to be a surcharge.</para>
<para>There was, not surprisingly, much debate and furore over this new regulation and its implementation. The restaurant and cafe owners, often families who run small businesses around the country, were already dealing with supply chain issues, staffing rosters, changes to workplace relations, tax, accounts and cash flow at the same time as trying to increase job opportunities and grow their businesses. This new impost that required them to print and maintain multiple menus, in some cases for businesses that were already levying a surcharge, was just a step too far.</para>
<para>The costs, while they might sound insignificant, were actually not. The Restaurant and Catering Industry Association of Australia estimated they averaged between $8,000 and $10,000 for each restaurant. That is, $8,000 or $10,000 straight off the bottom line that a restaurant has to spend to comply with this new rule if they already applied a public holiday or weekend surcharge or, in fact, if they wished to. Anyone who knows this sector knows that it operates on very slim margins. When we look at the cost pressures that this sector has faced due to the changes—in many cases, due to this government; for example, the carbon tax forcing up energy costs, which is a significant input for restaurants and catering small businesses—we can see that this is not a trivial amount of money.</para>
<para>In 2010, the Productivity Commission's <inline font-style="italic">Annual review of regulatory burdens on </inline><inline font-style="italic">business: business and consumer services </inline>recommended that the government amend what was then the Trade Practices Act to have restaurant and cafe menu surcharges for specific days placed outside the scope of the pricing provisions of the legislation. This would mean that cafes and restaurants would no longer be required to detail surcharges for specific days in the same way—with a separate menu, by rubbing out the specials board or by hanging a sheet over it on the day they had a surcharge. The Productivity Commission's <inline font-style="italic">Annual review of regulatory burdens on business</inline> 2010 recommended:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Government should amend the <inline font-style="italic">Trade Practices Act 1974</inline> to have restaurant and café menu surcharges for specific days placed outside the scope of the component pricing provision of that legislation.</para></quote>
<para>The Competition and Consumer Amendment Bill 2013 directly addresses the issue. It puts into law this Productivity Commission recommendation. It recommends the now Competition and Consumer Act 2010 has a regulation-making power inserted to enable the government to make regulations to exempt certain representations from the component pricing requirement in Australian consumer law. This exemption will ensure restaurants and cafes no longer need to provide a separate menu for days when they apply a surcharge. However, I will note that we do not yet have the specifics regarding the requirements that restaurants, cafes and the catering industry will need to fulfil. The government has said that this will come in the future with regulation. Again, the parliament is being asked to take this government at trust. We support the legislation. We have learnt to not necessarily trust the government's implementation of it.</para>
<para>With those concerns noted, this bill has been well received by all in the industry sector who have been affected. Industry groups such as the Australian Hotels Association, the Chamber of Commerce and Industry Queensland, Clubs Australia and the National Tourism Alliance have all endorsed this piece of legislation. We will, to this extent, trust that a good balance for consumers and a good balance for business will be reached when the government promulgates the regulation to put this into effect. We hope that the government will learn this lesson and provide a solution that carefully weighs up consumer interests with the costs of doing business.</para>
<para>At this point, the bill amends the relatively recently passed Competition and Consumer Act. This raises a number of issues that the opposition has highlighted. We believe strongly that competition law has an important role to play in achieving positive outcomes for consumers and businesses. Competition is the essence of our market system. Competition is the essence to a productive and efficient economy. In fact, over the last 30 to 40 years, this country has implemented a form of competition policy that, I would suggest with respect—more than anything the government claims credit for—protected Australia from the global economic recession by ensuring our economy was more responsive and more efficient. However, it has been more than 20 years since Professor Hilmer undertook his landmark work that examined our competition framework and recommended a range of legislative and policy reforms that underpin today's competition laws, procedures and philosophy. Much has happened in the Australian economy since the Hilmer review.</para>
<para>I will give a few examples that will be familiar to most in the community. There has been a significant consolidation in our financial sector. What were once four banks, two insurance houses, plus a great number of regional and state banks is now effectively a four-bank, four-pillar system. In the supermarket and food retailing industry, we have seen quite significant growth of the two major supermarket chains, Woolworths and Coles. We have also seen consolidation with the loss of a player like Franklins and, since the days when I was pushing trolleys around an independent supermarket in Essendon, we have seen the consolidation of a number of state based independent wholesalers into Metcash. Only in the last few years we have seen the entry of more globally based competition, such as through Aldi, which in only a few short years has managed to open about 300 stores, I understand.</para>
<para>It is important to note that there have been swings and roundabouts in these two developments. In some cases, consumers have demonstrably benefited and in other cases a case can be put that the competition benefits have not flown strongly through to the consumer, at least in an immediately obvious way. Some markets—and I will use an example here: the pricing of credit cards—are stickier. By 'stickier' I mean that you do not often see significant price changes. People do not tend to move products that often. Health insurance is another example, as are markets such as credit cards, where competition is defined by things other than price. In that case, you will have the interest rate, the price of money, and the competition might be defined by things like interest-free days, Frequent Flyer points or the lack of surcharges at certain places. So, while there is competition, the transparency of it is not as immediately obvious to the consumer.</para>
<para>There are areas in supermarkets where there has been a demonstrable benefit to consumers. Food price deflation over the last couple of years has, unarguably, left consumers better off, because greater competition in the market between the two major chains has led to food price deflation.</para>
<para>However, we do also know that there have been significant changes in the way larger corporations operate. So we have the issue of land development. We have had the issue of how to move customers of one particular channel into another channel. The classic case is supermarkets using discounts from supermarket cash registers to drive people to buy petrol. But effectively the aim is to drive people through the supermarket cash registers.</para>
<para>The coalition is well aware of the difficulties smaller retailers face competing against larger businesses in the retail market and how smaller businesses do not necessarily have meaningful access to all the legal rights that the Competition and Consumer Act might on paper grant them. The coalition, as part of its commitment to a root-and-branch review of competition law, wants such a review to look at the changes in the economy since the Hilmer review and to look at how the eternal values of competition need to respond to changing market circumstances.</para>
<para>I will give the most extreme example. Twenty years ago the internet was something that a few people at Melbourne uni probably logged onto to look at a black screen where they could punch a few keys a minute. The internet was not a meaningful presence in people's lives 15 years ago. In many ways it was not that meaningful in commerce even a decade ago. But it is clearly now becoming a much more important competitive aspect, including, I might add, in areas where people did not expect it, like supermarkets. I know people who now order things online. They do not walk into a supermarket but, at seven o'clock on a Thursday night, boxes turn up at their home.</para>
<para>Another important aspect of this that the opposition highlighted is the issue of unfair contracts. Consumers have access to unfair contract provisions under the Competition and Consumer Act. The opposition made a commitment at the last election—and we will make that commitment again—to enabling small business access to unfair contract provisions when they are dealing with big businesses. The reason this is so important is that a law is not a very good law if it is not enforceable. The opportunity for a mum-and-dad partnership that might run a cafe or a small retail store to take meaningful legal action against a larger player is, in reality, very limited. I know that a standard significant case that might be brought under the Competition and Consumer Act on abuse of market power or unconscionable conduct can cost in the millions. That is not a meaningful way for smaller businesses to access the competition law and the protections which they are currently legally entitled to. So the opposition believes that unfair contract provisions give small business that meaningful access to the law that underpins and protects competition in Australian markets.</para>
<para>The associated issue of compliance with competition law is something to consider as well. If it is costing millions and millions of dollars to take court action, is there something about the law that means it is too complex? This is a new area of law. It is not centuries-old property law or contract law. It is an evolving area of law. But we cannot sit by while millions and millions of dollars are spent on legal costs, ensuring that smaller businesses cannot access the provisions in the act that are meant to protect them.</para>
<para>So our root-and-branch review will focus on all these aspects of competition law in order to ensure that it meets the goals that were set in 1990 when Professor Hilmer published his report and which underpinned those reforms but was conscious of the fact that the world has changed. We have the internet, we have privatised utilities in many states, we have larger financial institutions and we have larger retail institutions. We need to make sure that the law responds to that changed environment, just as it did in 1990.</para>
<para>I will cease my comments there. The coalition supports the bill. We hope that the government takes note of its previous errors when it promulgates this regulation. We hope it does it quickly in order to give small businesses this flexibility they do not currently have and to respond to the rising costs in some cases that this government has imposed on them and make their businesses more viable, but we will be supporting the bill.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:04</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator IAN MACDONALD</name>
    <name.id>YW4</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Ryan for finishing early. I want to say quite a number of things about this piece of legislation. I am aware that there are many others who would like to debate this particular bill but unfortunately, because of the guillotine imposed by the Labor Party, with the support of their political allies the Greens, we are constrained to a very short period of time to debate this important bill.</para>
<para>In relation to the Competition and Consumer Amendment Bill, I say: one down, 19,899 to go. Madam Deputy President, you will recall that the Labor Party promised some time ago that for every new regulation they introduced they would repeal one. We know that since the Labor Party have been in power they have introduced some 21,000 new or amended regulations. I will just repeat that: since the Labor Party have been in power, they have introduced 21,000 new or amended regulations which small business and business generally have to comply with. No wonder the cost of doing business has gone up so much in Australia. No wonder Australian manufacturing businesses are closing down daily and exporting the manufacturing jobs that used to be in Australia to China, India and other places. It is all because the Labor Party continue to impose costs like the carbon tax and the mining tax on small business. They have imposed on small business, as I said, 21,000 new or amended regulations since they have been in power.</para>
<para>Perhaps I will digress here. Why would anyone, particularly me, believe any promise the Labor Party made after the most famous misstatement of all time—'There will be no carbon tax under a government I lead.' Perhaps that statement has turned out to be true, because Ms Gillard is no longer leading a government that clearly has introduced the carbon tax. It will be interesting to see what Mr Rudd does in relation to the commitment never to introduce a carbon tax that was made by the Australian Labor Party before the last election.</para>
<para>But I digress. Getting back to their promise that for every regulation they introduced they would repeal one, I might say that they have not repealed 21,000, although to their credit they have repealed 1,100. That is why I say of this piece of legislation, 'One down and a mere 19,899 to go,' if the Labor Party are to discharge the promise they made to repeal one regulation for every one they introduced. Having said that, I congratulate the Gillard government for reducing at least one piece of regulation with this bill.</para>
<para>As my colleague Senator Ryan has very clearly explained, this is a regulation about pricing in restaurants and cafes. It has taken over 12 months of consultation to get to this day. Three state governments have had to agree. It has been through a tortuous path just to get here. And you wonder why Australia is going down the gurgler. You wonder why Australian jobs are going overseas. It is because the Gillard, and before that the Rudd, Labor government just imposed taxes, costs and regulation on business, so that it is no longer possible for Australians to have a manufacturing industry or, indeed, many industries at all.</para>
<para>This process, which we hope will be finished today, will at least address the issue of the way in which you can advertise the weekend surcharge on a restaurant menu or on a board outside a restaurant or cafe. I am sure that those listening to this debate will not believe that we have had to go through this tortuous process just do that. But that is what happens when you have Labor governments. They are interested only in telling everybody how they should act. They do not believe that people are capable of making their own decisions. Labor governments always think that they know better; Big Brother in Canberra knows better than individuals. They will tell you what you can do with your life and your business.</para>
<para>This regulation is simply another impost on small business. The Liberal Party and the National Party are the parties of small business. Why? Because we recognise that they are the engine room of our economy. We also recognise that it is business—small business, medium business—that creates jobs in Australia. It is not governments that create jobs, unless they create artificial jobs in the bureaucracy—and heaven knows that they have done that. I forget the actual figure, but I think that since the Labor Party have been in power we have employed—what is it?—22,000 additional public servants. I take it back—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Thorp</name>
    <name.id>183342</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>We have created 900,000 new jobs.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator IAN MACDONALD</name>
    <name.id>YW4</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The government has created 900,000 new jobs? I do not know that there are 900,000 new public servants, because those are the only jobs that governments can actually create. Small business and medium-sized business and big business are the ones that create jobs. The jobs that the government creates are the 22,000 additional public servants, most of them in this lovely city. Those are the jobs the Labor government have created. We in the coalition understand that real job creation comes from small and medium-sized business. That is why you cannot keep creating real jobs, as opposed to Public Service jobs, while you keep imposing costs and regulations on small business.</para>
<para>I repeat: good luck to the Gillard government for removing one regulation. I am not sure when the next election is going to be these days. Ms Gillard said it was going to be on 14 September. There is press speculation and a lot of rumours around members of the Labor Party that it is now not going to be on that date, but of course the parliament has not been brought into those discussions. Those of us who, in our democracy, are supposed to be running the country will of course, as is usual with the Labor Party, be the last to know. If the election is to be held on 14 September, and if the Labor Party are to discharge the promise they made about repealing 21,000 pieces of regulation in their term, they have a lot of work to do in the next few weeks. We know of course that that will not happen.</para>
<para>The regulation being removed, as my colleague has said, enables regulations to be made to exempt certain representations from component-pricing requirements in the Australian Consumer Law. The amendment will allow regulations to be made to place restaurant and cafe menu surcharges for specific days outside the component-pricing requirements, which put simply means that you can have a different menu or a different pricing explanation on different days. That seems very sensible.</para>
<para>It is brought about because there are substantial penalties for those who work on weekends and at odd hours, and that is appropriate in many cases. It does not, of course, take into account that many people, particularly university students who study during the week, often want to get their jobs on the weekend. They look forward to employment on the weekend, because that is when they can earn a bit of cash to pay for whatever they need money for. Regrettably, with the legislation and regulations that have been around over many years, the numbers of jobs available on weekends is simply not what it used to be. So all of those jobs that used to be available for university students, and others who find that working on the weekend really suits them, are no longer as plentiful as they used to be.</para>
<para>Madam Acting Deputy President Stephens, you and I and many others have been to many seaside towns and tourist resorts where, when you walk along the main street on a Sunday, every second cafe is shut. Why? Because the small-business owners can simply not afford the staff to open them up. I was in Hervey Bay the other day with Keith Pitt, the excellent LNP candidate for Hinkler who will replace the long-serving Paul Neville—those are big shoes for Keith Pitt to fill, but I am sure he will do it—and we were talking to small-business men along the esplanade in Hervey Bay, and every second shop was shut down on the weekend, simply because they could not afford to open up on those days. So those jobs that used to be available to people who wanted to work on weekends in Hervey Bay are no longer available. That, I regret to say, is probably one of the reasons why there is unemployment in the Hervey Bay area. There should not be. Hervey Bay is a great place. It is the whale-watching capital of the world, with a great climate and great activities, and near Fraser Island; it is a magnificent place for people to go. But small business there, as it is everywhere in Australia, is struggling because of the regulation and cost of the things introduced by, first of all, the Rudd Labor government in 2007 and, more recently, the Gillard government.</para>
<para>Talking about competition and consumer affairs reminds me that small businesses are also very concerned with the duopoly of Coles and Woolworths. Coles and Woolworths obviously conduct legitimate businesses, and customers like using them. But they have an inordinate market power which producers, suppliers and wholesalers will tell you is not always appropriately used. That is why I am delighted that the coalition, as one of its core promises in the upcoming election campaign, is to conduct that root-and-branch review of the competition laws in Australia, to see what can be done to make it fairer for producers, farmers and small businesses to compete with Coles and Woolworths.</para>
<para>We now have a government led by Mr Rudd who will, no doubt, continue to promise to look after small business and reduce regulations. We all know, and Australians know, that Mr Rudd can be believed no more than Ms Gillard could be. We all remember Mr Rudd promising to end the blame game on health and hospitals, but what have we heard, consistently, on health and education and anything else that goes wrong under this dysfunctional government? It is all the fault of the states—they are the ones who do all the things for which the poor old Gillard and Rudd governments have been blamed! Well, everybody knows that that is a joke. Mr Rudd will continue to blame everybody else for his own failures as Prime Minister and then as a minister in Ms Gillard's government.</para>
<para>We know Mr Rudd well from Queensland. We remember when he, as a public servant, ran the Premier's office in Queensland. And you talk about dysfunctional governments there; you talk about how staff were always leaving the Department of the Premier and Cabinet in Queensland. It was because of the way Mr Rudd ran that office when he was in Queensland. It is easy to understand why one of Mr Rudd's colleagues, Mr Steve Gibbons, said, 'He is a psychopath with a giant ego.' It is very easy to understand that. It is very easy to understand why former minister Mr Craig Emerson, another Queenslander, who has known Mr Rudd not only in this parliament but when he was wielding the power in Queensland as the chief public servant in the Premier's office, said of Mr Rudd:</para>
<quote><para class="block">There has been attack on the Prime Minister—</para></quote>
<para>that is, Gillard—</para>
<quote><para class="block">going back to the last election. There was destabilisation and leaking then; it's been going on since. … So if we're talking about attacking sitting prime ministers and destabilisation, I think Kevin—</para></quote>
<para>and I think he meant Kevin Rudd—</para>
<quote><para class="block">should look in his own backyard because this has been going on for too long …</para></quote>
<para>You will be aware, Madam Acting Deputy President Stephens, perhaps better than I, of how people who have worked with Mr Rudd have always been very critical of any promises he has made, of the way he runs his office and the way he has run his government. That is not my criticism, I hasten to add; it is criticism by people who have worked with Mr Rudd in his cabinet, next door to him, and continue doing so. So promises that Mr Rudd might make, like this promise to abolish one regulation for every new one created, the Australian people will no longer believe. It is time that this country got a government it can believe and trust. I look forward to the next election, whenever it is, so that Australia can get a decent, honest government again. But praise where praise is due—one regulation is gone with this bill. I support this bill, but there are 19,899 regulations to be abolished in the next few weeks. I will believe that when I see it.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:23</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator JOYCE</name>
    <name.id>e5d</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>As this is one of the last bills that I will see in the Senate, it is very important that I speak on it. One of the reasons I came to this chamber was to support small business, and the issues I spoke about in my maiden speech are in a minor way addressed in this bill. This is a generic amendment. It is a statement of the bleeding obvious—that we cannot have small restaurants having to produce two menus. It is excessive bureaucracy. We have to get out of the way of small business. A restaurant on the High Street should not have excessive costs put on them. We have to make sure we create flexibility for people in the restaurant industry.</para>
<para>We have to realise that the restaurant industry is a great employer of people. As has been alluded to by Senator Ryan—he might not have thought I was listening to him, but I was listening to him diligently from my office whilst lying on my couch—there are around 38,000 restaurants in Australia and they generate around $29 billion a year. Many restaurants are family businesses, and they are the epitome of what I believe in in small business. This allows families to grow up knowing their children. To me and many in the National Party, it is a social statement—the capacity to live and grow with your children. I suppose we are influenced by how we grew up. I grew up on a farm. I saw my mother and father all the time because the business we worked in was where we lived. This is something that should be available to many people.</para>
<para>Restaurants are a feature of small business. How often do you go into a small cafe and see mum and dad and one of the sons all working together. In Chinese restaurants you see the whole family pitching in and working together and knowing each other and growing up as a tight family unit. So the ethos of small business is intertwined with the ethos of the family. It is a crucial part of the dynamic of where I have sat philosophically, and it is probably why I sit on this side of the chamber.</para>
<para>A key part of that also is that we must make sure that we do not create a bureaucracy that makes small business impossible. I have seen this even in areas such as the insurance industry, where small operators keep being loaded down with regulation for regulation's sake. This is generally to the benefit of large providers, who can deal with the overheads of excessive regulation whereas a small businesses cannot. The occupational health and safety officer is a classic example. Large organisations such as the one I used to work for, ConAgra, can employ an occupational health and safety officer; they have the capacity to do that by reason of the size of their operation. But smaller feedlots cannot because they do not have the volume to be able to support that.</para>
<para>A lot of the regulatory burden is state laws. One of the most insidious laws that came into the farming sector was the tree-clearing guidelines. It determined that an asset that was owned by an individual would overnight be divested from that individual and invested in the state. Many of my own colleagues on the conservative side of the fence started making excuses for it—'it had to be right', 'the community is right to steal an asset from an individual'. But it is not the community's right to steal an asset from an individual. Excessive regulation steals an opportunity from the individual because it creates a mechanism whereby it is virtually impossible for the individual to progress through small business.</para>
<para>If we are going to get out of the current circumstances we are in financially, we have to rely on the economic powerhouse of small business. We can either be forced into this position down the track or we can move into this position of our own volition by genuinely going into the area and recognising that there is always a risk-return trade-off. But at the moment we are too risk averse and the return is that we are putting unnecessary pressures on small business that will in the future impede an economy that has had the benefit in the past of a mining boom that has generated great wealth in the economy. But that boom will taper off because all commodities are cyclical. That is not some sort of Cassandra-like principle; it is a statement of the obvious. As the commodity sector peels off, you are going to have to rely on other sectors of the economy to take up the burden of supplying the return to the nation to cover our bills, to cover our debt and to cover the social services that we in here demand every day in passing legislation. That return needs to match what we lose from areas such as the manufacturing industry.</para>
<para>If you are going to use the argument of GDP, we must start removing regulation from small business. I hope this is a statement of firsts. I fully support the root-and-branch review of the Competition and Consumer Act. That is going to be an absolute statement of our belief in small business, our core constituency. Where we go with that is a reflection of who we are as a political force.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>00AOS</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>It being almost 4.30, the time allotted for consideration of this bill has now expired. The question is that the bill be now read a second time.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a second time.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Third Reading</title>
            <page.no>4340</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:30</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>00AOS</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The question now is that the remaining stages of this bill be agreed to and that the bill be now passed.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a third time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Health Insurance Amendment (Medicare Funding for Certain Types of Abortion) Bill 2013</title>
          <page.no>4340</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" style="" background="" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint">
            <a type="Bill" href="s909">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Health Insurance Amendment (Medicare Funding for Certain Types of Abortion) Bill 2013</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>4340</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:30</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator MADIGAN</name>
    <name.id>217571</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The central objective of the Health Insurance Amendment (Medicare Funding for Certain Types of Abortion) Bill 2013 is to remove Medicare funding for abortions which are undertaken solely for the purpose of gender selection. It is universally acknowledged that abortion for the purpose of gender selection is abhorrent. This is evidenced by the overwhelming support given by both the government and the opposition to a motion passed in this place last week. I wish I could presume the same overwhelming support for this bill that echoes those exact sentiments and aims to unequivocally send the message that gender selection abortion is unacceptable and that Australian taxpayers will not support it.</para>
<para>Unfortunately, the politically based roadblocks that have been thrown up against this bill and against the yet-to-be tabled committee report are not encouraging. That was universally acknowledged by our fellow Australians, who provided 1,150 submissions and other correspondence to the inquiry into this bill—99 per cent of which supported the removal of Medicare funding for gender selection abortion. Included in those 1,150 submissions were several that opposed this bill. One of those submissions, by the Fertility Control Clinic in Melbourne, the largest private abortion provider in Victoria, states that they do receive requests for gender selection abortions. Despite this evidence that gender selection abortions are being sought, despite the overwhelming number of submissions received and despite my own objections, the Senate Finance and Public Administration Committee flatly refused to hold a single public hearing—not one. I was told that while attending a public hearing on an inquiry that had received just 27 submissions.</para>
<para>From the outset, I want to say clearly that this bill is a bill of very limited scope. It is limited entirely to Medicare funding for gender selection of abortion—no more, no less. It has been rumoured that this is the beginning of moves to restrict the availability of abortion. I make no secret that I would like to see abortion eradicated but I am not so naive as to believe that it can happen without also providing for the needs of families and women. I firmly believe that abortion should not be used to shame women or make women feel guilty. Every abortion is a tragedy. It is a failure to care and a failure to provide assistance; it is a failure of economics; it is a failure of relationships; and it is a failure of respect for women. These are all issues for another time.</para>
<para>With the incredibly rapid advance in our abilities to detect certain traits in DNA, there may be a time in the future when I will introduce a bill seeking to stop funding for abortions based on the selection of blue-eyed children over brown-eyed or of a dark-skinned child over a white-skinned child. At some point the widely looked for gay gene will no doubt be identified. When it is, will people be happy to support the principle of aborting a child because its DNA suggests it to be gay? Do we allow the deciding factor in whether or not that child should be allowed to live to be whether or not it is gay?</para>
<para>I can tell you now that I am not the one to fear when these decisions are being made. I will not deny life to another human being based on physical features or on race or on sexual orientation. I will be the one fighting for their right to live whether brown-eyed, dark-skinned or gay. As I said, these are fights for another day. But how we approach those fights will be determined greatly by how we vote on this bill. Make no mistake, when those issues arise—and they will—it will be this debate and this parliament's decision on this bill that will be one of the determining factors on who we allow to live in our society.</para>
<para>This bill is solely about restricting the availability of Medicare funding for abortion for the purpose of gender selection, a practice which is morally reprehensible in any circumstance. There is ample evidence that gender selection abortion occurs in countries such as China and India. A recent screening of the film <inline font-style="italic">It's a Girl</inline> showed how devastating these practices are in those countries. In some places there are over 130 boys born to every 100 girls. The consequences for further generations are frightening as these children approach marriageable age. Already in China girls are being kidnapped as prospective spouses for sons. But there is a more frightening aspect to this.</para>
<para>The root cause of gender selection is a profound disrespect for women. We have heard a lot from members in the other place about misogyny. There is no greater misogyny than choosing to abort a baby because she is a girl. There is no greater misogyny than treating women as breeding machines for future male heirs This attitude of treating women in Third World countries as breeding machines is also evident in the use of Indian women as baby incubators for First World couples. That too is an issue for another time.</para>
<para>There is no argument that gender selection abortions are happening in India and China. The United Nations report <inline font-style="italic">Sex Imbalances at Birth. Current trends, consequences and policy implications</inline>, published in 2012, documents the spread of sex selection around the world. It is no longer a problem just in China and India; it is also widely encountered in Singapore, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Vietnam, Pakistan, Azerbaijan, Armenia and, in south-east Europe, Georgia, Albania and Montenegro. The United Nations has repeatedly called for action to bring an end to this practice. Australia is a signatory to the International Conference on Population and Development, Cairo, 1994. This means that Australia has agreed to take all necessary action to achieve its objectives. These include action 4.23, which reads:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Governments are urged to take the necessary measures to prevent infanticide, prenatal sex selection, trafficking in girl children and use of girls in prostitution and pornography.</para></quote>
<para>Australia unequivocally voted in favour of action to eradicate prenatal sex selection at UN conferences on women in Cairo in 1994 and Beijing in 1996. We have an obligation to act to prevent this practice. This bill is one way of achieving this. We are kidding ourselves if we believe that this does not happen here. Gender-selection abortion does occur in Western countries. The Council of Europe notes that prenatal sex selection is not confined to Asia. In its resolution on prenatal sex selection it warns that altered sex ratios have been observed in a number of member states. It condemns the practice of prenatal sex selection as a phenomenon which finds its roots in a culture of gender inequality and reinforces a climate of violence against women.</para>
<para>Social and family pressure placed on women not to pursue a pregnancy because of the sex of the foetus is to be considered as a form of psychological violence. The UK Department of Health has also launched an inquiry, following a newspaper investigation into gender-selection termination in British clinics. Sex ratio imbalances have been seen among children of parents of Asian origin in the United States. In 2011, the United Nations Population Fund reported in its guidance notes on prenatal sex selection that, according to the 2000 census of the United States, immigrants from China, India and the Republic of Korea had a sex ratio at birth almost as skewed as in their countries of origin. In Canada, figures show that certain communities with large proportions of immigrants from China and India are also experiencing the same unusual sex ratios as those seen in those Asian countries.</para>
<para>There is no obvious reason why this phenomenon would not also be occurring in Australia. In fact, we have evidence of gender-selection abortion in Australia. Recently a Melbourne GP, Dr Mark Hobart, came forward with a case which occurred in his practice. A couple of Indian origin requested a referral for abortion when a 20-week ultrasound revealed a female foetus. Dr Hobart refused to refer the couple, but they were able to abort the child at an abortion clinic.</para>
<para>As an aside here, I want to bring to the chamber's attention the despicable way in which some have tried to discredit Dr Hobart because he is a member of the DLP. Does being a member of the Greens discredit the medical authority of Dr Richard Di Natale? Does being a member of the Liberal Party discredit Dr Mal Washer and Dr Sharman Stone? Further evidence has come from a sonographer, who described being left with the feeling that she had given a child a death sentence when the female gender of the child was revealed to an Afghani couple. Here we have two cases of gender-selection abortion. Yes, we certainly need more data but we do have evidence.</para>
<para>Many have suggested that this bill was ill conceived because it is difficult to determine that gender-selection abortion takes place. But I have just provided evidence. Others have suggested that there was no evidence that certain cultural groupings where such a practice is common were engaging in gender-selection abortion in Australia.</para>
<para>Interestingly, the same can be said of female genital mutilation. It is difficult to determine how prevalent it may be. Prosecutions are rare. It is practised amongst certain cultural groups. But, in the case of female genital mutilation, a number of educative and legal initiatives have been put in place through the government's National Compact on Female Genital Mutilation. There is no ambiguity in the Compact on FGM. It states clearly that FGM is unacceptable. The compact also declares Australia's commitment to stand by its obligations to the UN, which include taking action to end the practice of FGM for women and girls living in Australia, and for women and girls settling in Australia and throughout the world, who are or may be in the future affected by FGM.</para>
<para>The National Compact on FGM is unswerving in its commitment—and rightly so. We will not excuse or ignore the practice of FGM. The initiative aims to educate migrants and refugees from areas where such practices are culturally acceptable that such a practice is not acceptable in Australia. FGM is illegal in all states and territories, despite the fact that it is difficult to detect.</para>
<para>In their 11 December 2012 press release entitled 'Gillard government to act on female genital mutilation in Australia', the then Prime Minister, Ms Gillard, and the Minister for Health, Ms Plibersek, referred to the practice of FGM as 'barbaric' and 'horrific'. The joint statement continued:</para>
<quote><para class="block">We do not know how widespread this practice is in Australia but we know there have been instances, and anecdotal evidence suggests these are not isolated.</para></quote>
<para>The Prime Minister and the health minister stated that, although there was only limited, apparently anecdotal evidence that this practice had been occurring in Australia, one such procedure in this country is one too many. I suggest that gender-selection abortion is also horrific and barbaric. For gender selection, too, anecdotal evidence suggests it is not isolated. I am willing to give the former Prime Minister and the health minister the last word:</para>
<quote><para class="block">One such procedure performed in this country is one too many.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:44</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator MOORE</name>
    <name.id>00AOQ</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I know that we have limited time this afternoon, but it is really important that we have a discussion about the Health Insurance Amendment (Medicare Funding for Certain Types of Abortion) Bill 2013. I do not have the privilege of being on the Finance and Public Administration Committee which considered it. But, as people would know, there was interest and we read the submissions. It is important to know that this kind of bill is not isolated to Australia. This type of legislation has been proposed in many countries of the world over the last six months. There have been attempts at this kind of legislation in several states of the US, in Latvia, in parts of Russia and in a whole range of other countries. That is all on the record. Very similarly worded bills have been put up. That does not mean that it should not be discussed, but we need to understand that the type of legislation being proposed is not peculiar to Australia.</para>
<para>One of the aspects of the bill is that it looks at the issues around United Nations declarations. I celebrate the fact that we are looking at a range of UN conventions and declarations to which Australia is a signatory. I saw no-one during our recent committee hearing nor in general discussion in Australia who in any way supports any discrimination against women—and discrimination in the form of terminations of girl children in particular. That has been a point raised. That was the focus of the UN declaration.</para>
<para>The relevant part of the UN cross-agency statement that was quoted, both during the committee hearing and also this afternoon, talks about the fact that states have the obligation under human rights laws to respect, protect and fulfil the human rights of girls and women. It refers to the ICPD, which I keep almost by my bedside and to which I have referred many times in this place. Principle 8 of the ICPD of 1994—which has been reinforced consistently—says:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Everyone has the right to the enjoyment of the highest attainable standard of physical and mental health. States should take all appropriate measures to ensure, on a basis of equality of men and women, universal access to health-care services, including those related to reproductive health care, which includes family planning and sexual health. Reproductive health-care programmes should provide the widest range of services without any form of coercion. All couples and individuals have the basic right to decide freely and responsibly the number and spacing of their children and to have the information, education and means to do so.</para></quote>
<para>The declaration then talks about any preference given to male children, to sons, and about the horror of any discrimination against women and women who are giving birth to children. We all agree with that. We need to work forward from that.</para>
<para>But one of the core aspects of the discussion is that all states must put in place a range of support mechanisms so that women and their families can make effective and responsible decisions. The bill before us is giving one narrow response to this issue. Indeed, as Senator Madigan pointed out, what he has put before our parliament is quite specific. We need a wider response. We do not need to put all the focus on one medical element, a focus that does not reflect the views of the Australian community.</para>
<para>A number of submissions to the committee questioned whether the issue of sex selection abortion was real in Australia. Senator Madigan has pointed out one case. I am not doubting the evidence that came before the Senate committee, Senator Madigan, and I do not think that anyone should impugn any evidence that comes before a Senate committee. However, a wide range of evidence was documented by organisations such as the Australian Foundation of Women and also the Reproductive Choice group that looked at the Australian community and our birth rates. That evidence pointed out that the Australian sex ratio at birth now is 105.7 male births per 100 female births and that is within the normal range of 102 to 106. They are not things that I have made up. This is the scientific and statistical basis to look at the rates of birth in our country. There is nothing there that points out that there is any dominance of or preference for male births over female births—or indeed female births over male births. There is no evidence from any change in our birth rates that people are making conscious sex selection decisions and terminating births on that basis.</para>
<para>I am also concerned that we are impugning parents—and particularly mothers—of some specific backgrounds in saying, 'If there is an issue, it will be mothers and families of this particular ethnic background.' I find that difficult. In looking at our Australian community, one of our responsibilities is to ensure that our values and our way of life is shared by all the people who live within it. That is what being part of the Australian community means. We see it when people take on citizenship in the pledges that they make. Impugning one group and inferring that because they happen to come from a particular country where there is sex selection—and we know it, and we heard Senator Madigan point out a couple of those countries—that will automatically translate to how they live and make choices in Australia is not a fair process and could lead, in the worst possible scenario, to a focus on women from particular backgrounds who are choosing to take medical advice about their options with pregnancy.</para>
<para>Remember that what we are talking about is the right of women in our country to make choices about, as ICPD principle 8 says, the children that they will have and the number and spacing of their children. The core aspect in this argument is that the Medicare payments in our country reflect the medical practice in our country. It is a clinical process in terms of women having the right to have personal and private discussions with their medical practitioners about the choices they want to make. I am concerned that if we put more regulation into this process about making sure that there are lists or data kept on the choices and the background to choices it may actually cause women to not have the freedom and the strength to make decisions and to take advice that they need. In this debate we consistently hear about force and coercion and fear. We want to minimalise that environment so that women have that personal security, when they seek medical advice, that it will be just that: personal and secure. That is the basis of our medical system.</para>
<para>We also heard a number of people talking about their concerns about how we are going to move forward if we begin to have this kind of intrusion into what is an Australian right and an Australian freedom: the ability in our country to ensure that people across the board do understand their rights and do understand their responsibilities. We had evidence in the committee, which I have read, that talks about the medical practitioners—the NHMRC guidelines, which are already there and which we rely on for our medical practitioners to understand their responsibilities and their relationship with their patients. In terms of the protections that are already in place in Australia, we do have systems that allow appropriate practice and appropriate understanding.</para>
<para>Should there be a fear about processes such as sex-selection abortion coming into our country, we need to ensure—and in fact we have a responsibility to ensure—that effective information is made public to tell people what rights and responsibilities they have in Australia. We need to refer, as Senator Madigan has done so well, to the various UN conventions that are in place giving people that understanding, that freedom and that responsibility. And I definitely support that. What I do not support is a single approach that is focusing on the Medicare payments, which is one way of highlighting a presumed problem that I genuinely do not believe we have in our country. I hope that through the process Senator Madigan has put in place there will be an openness around discussions on this issue so that we do not hide—we do not run away from the process—but we do not automatically presume guilt. And that seems to me to be the bottom-line message of this legislation: we presume that there is a problem, we presume that certain people are taking actions—which we do not support. We do not believe that any child or any sex or any person should be treated differently on the basis of their gender. It is not the Australian way. It is certainly not the way that has been promoted in a range of UN processes.</para>
<para>I was lucky enough to be at the Beijing women's conference, and these issues were openly debated. At that conference we had women—and some men—from around the world who share a commitment to equity and equal rights. They also share a very strong commitment to reproductive health, reproductive education and reproductive equity. If, through this bill, we actually restate those processes and get that agenda clearly on the record, the bill will have had some success. I do not believe that we need another regulation within the Medicare system that relates specifically to a problem that has been identified somewhere else. I do not believe that that is the methodology or the process we should use. In terms of what we can do, I think it is important that we actually look at what is occurring in Australia, see whether there is any concern raised by Senator Madigan and check that out. But I also believe that if a practitioner has a particular concern they have the right to not provide a service. And that is certainly within the process and something we have talked about before.</para>
<para>I am really pleased that I was able, in the discussion in this area, to work with a couple of young women. I particularly want to acknowledge Maddie and JD, who are really interested in our future and the issues of women's rights in this country. They, through this process, have received the information from the committee report. They have actually looked at what was happening internationally. They are the ones who actually pulled out the information from the various UN declarations and conferences. We need to focus on ensuring that women have free choice, that they have safety and that they have a sense that, through the medical practices in this country, they will be getting effective information and support rather than having the sense that there is something fearful or worrying about the actions they take.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:57</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CASH</name>
    <name.id>I0M</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak on this private senator's bill, the Health Insurance Amendment (Medicare Funding for Certain Types of Abortion) Bill 2013, brought forward by Senator Madigan, a DLP senator for Victoria. The bill seeks to remove Medicare funding for abortion procured on the basis of gender. This bill is not about abortion per se. Schedule 1 of the bill proposes to amend the Health Insurance Act 1973 by inserting a proposed new section 17A. Proposed new section 17A(1) provides that a Medicare benefit is not payable if:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(a) the professional service involves a medical practitioner performing:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) a medically induced termination on a pregnant woman;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) a service that relates to or is connected with performing a medically induced termination on a pregnant woman; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) the termination is carried out solely because of the gender of the foetus.</para></quote>
<para>The explanatory memorandum of the bill suggests that the bill would have limited financial impacts. The explanatory memorandum also states that the bill is compatible with the human rights and freedoms recognised or declared in international instruments listed in section 3 of the Human Rights (Parliamentary Scrutiny) Act 2011.</para>
<para>It has been said—and certainly Senator Madigan recognised this in his speech—that this bill was brought before the Senate as a stunt by a senator from the Democratic Labor Party. Senator Madigan, however, in his maiden speech, clearly outlined for the Senate those matters in which he has a passionate belief and upon which he intends to uphold his principles. I just want to quote from Senator Madigan's maiden speech. He said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">During my time here there will no doubt be a number of controversial bills proposed. I do not intend to be deliberately controversial simply for a few cheap headlines but on some issues I cannot be complicit by my silence.</para></quote>
<para>As someone who believes we live in a democratic society that places great value on freedom—freedom of speech, of thought and of expression—I support Senator Madigan's right to stand up and stand by his principles and bring this bill before the Australian Senate.</para>
<para>Whilst the issue of abortion is one that probably encourages and creates much debate, we should always support a position that encourages respect for the views and opinions of others. Plurality of ideas and views, underpinned by common values and goals, is the basis for a healthy democracy. Indeed, I am reminded of the words of French philosopher and social reformer Voltaire, who, in the 1700s, was known as a defender of religious freedom, free trade and civil liberties and was also a determined fighter against the limitations of censorship, religious dogma and intolerance. So many years ago, in support of the democratic right of others to express a view, he said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.</para></quote>
<para>The background to this bill is set out in the explanatory memorandum tabled by Senator Madigan when he introduced this private senator's bill. The explanatory memorandum sets out that in 2011 the United Nations Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights, the United Nations Population Fund, the United Nations Children's Fund, the United Nations Entity for Gender Equality and the Empowerment of Women, and the World Health Organization issued an interagency statement entitled <inline font-style="italic">Preventing gender-biased sex selection</inline>. The report refers to the practice of gender selection as discriminatory and greatly prejudicial towards the girl child and women in society.</para>
<para>In addition to the interagency statement, the explanatory memorandum notes that the United Nations Population Fund has urged governments to fulfil the commitments made at the 1994 Cairo population conference to:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… take the necessary measures to prevent infanticide, prenatal sex selection, trafficking in girl children.</para></quote>
<para>The interagency statement and the 1994 Cairo population conference identify that gender selection abortions do occur in countries such as China, India, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Taiwan, South Korea, Bangladesh, Azerbaijan, Armenia and a number of other countries, and in such overwhelming numbers that they have drastically skewed the sex ratio.</para>
<para>I also note that the 2011 interagency statement entitled <inline font-style="italic">Preventing gender-biased sex selection</inline> from the UN agencies and the World Health Organization reaffirms the commitment of the United Nations to:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… uphold the rights of girls and women and to address the multiple manifestations of gender discrimination including the problem of imbalanced sex ratios caused by sex selection.</para></quote>
<para>In speaking to Senator Madigan's private senator's bill, I note that the Australian Senate recently passed a motion put forward by Senator Madigan in relation to gender based sex selection. The motion called on the Senate to note that five United Nations agencies had issued a combined report calling for urgent steps to be taken to address gender biased sex selection. It also called on the Senate to note that, according to the 2000 United States census, the sex ratio at birth for migrants to the United States of America from China, India and the Republic of Korea was almost as skewed as in their countries of origin. At the UN International Conference on Population and Development in Cairo in 1984 and at the Fourth World Conference on Women, in Beijing in 1995, Australia committed to:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… enact and enforce legislation protecting girls from all forms of violence, including female infanticide and prenatal sex selection.</para></quote>
<para>It also called upon the Australian Senate to condemn the practice of gender biased sex selection and abortion, or infanticide, whether in Australia or overseas. The motion was passed with the support of the coalition and the government. It was not supported by the Australian Greens. However, I note that, in her statement to the Senate, Senator Rhiannon stated:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Greens condemn the practice of gender biased sex selection abortions.</para></quote>
<para>I also note that the submission to the Senate inquiry into this bill from Family Voice Australia referred to a survey conducted by Galaxy Research, in February 2013, in relation to public opinion on gender biased sex selection. The survey found that 92 per cent of respondents were opposed to abortion due to the sex of a child, with only six per cent being in favour. The submission also noted that in December 2010 Rebecca Kippen reported that 80 per cent of Australians were opposed to sex-selective abortions. It would appear that public opinion is consistent with the sentiments of the motion that was passed by the Australian Senate. Even the National Foundation for Australian Women, a well-known left-wing feminist organisation, said in its submission to the Senate inquiry:</para>
<quote><para class="block">NFAW is aware of the existence in some countries of such practices [being gender based sex selection], and finds such practices abhorrent, as we find the cultural practice of female genital mutilation.</para></quote>
<para>In relation to Senator Madigan's bill, on 21 March 2013 the Senate referred the bill to the Finance and Public Administration Legislation Committee for inquiry and report. The Senate inquiry received over 1,000 submissions, which I would contend is a reflection of the myriad contrasting and varying views surrounding the issue of abortion. As the coalition spokesperson on the status of women, I also note with interest that so many of the submissions to the Senate inquiry did not support sex-selective abortion, because in the view of the submitters it reflects deeply entrenched gender inequality.</para>
<para>Senators who have taken an active interest in this issue over the years will be aware that in some countries and cultures traditions supported by particular customs and practices are now able to be combined with technology, and the predetermined result has been millions and millions of sex-selective abortions. A significant body of evidence indicates that these sex-selective abortions relate to unborn baby girls. The practice of sex-selective abortions occurs particularly in societies where poverty is prevalent or where the cultural preference is for a firstborn son. The increase in this practice regrettably means that an unborn baby girl becomes a potential victim of a sex-selective abortion merely because she is a girl. This can only lead to the further entrenchment of gender inequality, which we as a society should be working hard towards eradicating. In its submission to the Senate inquiry into this bill, Family Voice Australia state:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The use of ultrasound technology to determine the gender (sex) of an unborn child combined with the traditional cultural preference for sons and the availability of abortion has led to increasing imbalances in the sex ratio in countries such as India, China, Nepal, Vietnam, the Caucasian republics and parts of the Balkans.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The range in the sex ratio at birth if there is no interference in normal biological processes is between 102 and 108 boys for every 100 girls. Any ratio outside this range points to human intervention.</para></quote>
<para>A number of submissions to the Senate inquiry refer to the fact that, whilst the practice of gender based abortion does occur in a number of countries, there is no comprehensive or reliable empirical evidence to suggest that it occurs in Australia and that Medicare is being used for the purpose of sex selective abortion. Women's Health Victoria, in their submission to the Senate inquiry, note:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… Australia has an entirely normal ratio of male to female births, which would suggest that sex selective abortion is rare,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">…   …   …</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Just over half (51%) of all births registered in 2011 were male babies, resulting in a sex ratio at birth of 105.7 male births per 100 female births. The biologically normal sex ratio at birth ranges from 102 to 106 males per 100 females. It is also worth noting that most abortions occur early on in pregnancy, before the sex of the foetus is known.</para></quote>
<para>In relation to the coalition's position on abortion law, Mr Abbott has stated that an incoming coalition government will not be changing the laws on abortion. Mr Abbott has also stated—and I believe his position is shared by numerous policy makers—that abortion should be safe, legal, and rare. I do not believe that there would be anyone in this chamber who would disagree with that sentiment.</para>
<para>The issue of abortion itself is predominantly a matter for the states. In this regard, I note that, in relation to the substance of this bill, whilst the Commonwealth does have responsibility for the Medicare funding of abortion, the states and territories have responsibility for most laws and regulations relating to abortion law in Australia. In most states across Australia, gender selection is generally prohibited, and I note that three states have enacted legislation specifically in relation to this issue. The ban relating to gender sex selection came into force in 2004, when the National Health and Medical Research Council was established under the National Health and Medical Research Council Act 1992 and outlawed it on moral and ethical grounds. The council's guidelines state:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Sex selection is an ethically controversial issue. The Australian Health Ethics Committee believes that admission to life should not be conditional upon a child being a particular sex.</para></quote>
<para>Bills such as these draw attention to the implementation of policies that directly relate to the delivery of real outcomes for women in Australia. In that regard, I note the achievements of the former Howard government when it comes to delivering real policy outcomes for Australian women. In particular, I note that when Mr Abbott was the health minister in Australia he introduced a pregnancy support hotline to help women with unexpected and unplanned pregnancies. This is an example of the type of policy decision that makes a real difference in the life of a woman when she falls pregnant.</para>
<para>As the coalition's spokesperson for the status of women, I reiterate that the coalition acknowledge the evidence that sex selective abortion is known to take place in countries in which gender inequality is deeply entrenched and male children are more highly valued. Like so many submitters to the Senate inquiry into Senator Madigan's bill, we too support the global effort to end gender inequality. We agree with the statement made by Women's Health Victoria, in its submission to the Senate inquiry, which said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">It is through widespread societal change in attitudes towards women that lasting improvements to the lives of women will be achieved.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:12</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RHIANNON</name>
    <name.id>CPR</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Health Insurance Amendment (Medicare Funding for Certain Types of Abortion) Bill, moved by Democratic Labor Party Senator John Madigan, is not about sex selection abortion. The Greens share concerns about sex selection abortion where it occurs. However, there is no evidence abortions procured on the basis of selecting the gender of the child are occurring in Australia or that Medicare is being used to fund such procedures. The proposer of the bill, Senator Madigan, and the submissions that we have received show no evidence that there is this problem—a very serious problem, I certainly acknowledge—occurring in Australia. We have heard reports of anecdotal incidents, but have no evidence.</para>
<para>We need to look at why this is occurring. Why is this bill being advanced in the Senate? It is actually the latest ugly tactic of those who want to limit women's sexual reproductive rights. For many, their aim is to ban women's right to choose abortion. Quite seriously, this bill is unnecessary, and it is vexatious. It is about whipping up unfounded fear in the community by stigmatising women who seek abortion. That is certainly an underlying result. The tactic behind this bill is straight out of the US anti-choice campaign song book. That is a very ugly campaign also, where there is a real push to stop women seeking the full range of sexual and reproductive health rights. The tactic that so many of those people are now using is to chip away at smaller targets that limit women's right to choose.</para>
<para>In speaking about the US, while there are many who attack women's rights in this way, there are also some heroic people defending women's rights. Considering we are debating this bill this week, we should note and congratulate Senator Wendy Davis who spoke in the Texas Senate this week for more than now nine hours to try to stop an anti-abortion bill that, if it becomes law, would force a number of clinics to close. I was inspired by her passion and commitment on this issue—something that I think we need more of in this parliament.</para>
<para>It is also important to note that this bill comes before the Senate the day after Australia's first female Prime Minister was sacked. While the Greens clearly parted company with the former Gillard government on many issues, I congratulate the former Prime Minister for highlighting women's abortion rights, their right to access abortion. The attacks that rained down on her when she made those comments, for me, highlighted how spot-on she was to raise this very issue. Comments from conservative MPs and from some commentators were revealing in the misinformation that is so often peddled about abortion and that is being pushed at this time in terms of how the tactics around this issue are rolling out. We were told that the abortion issue was settled, that there is no problem with the law, that it is not a federal issue and that Mr Abbott is not against women's rights. This bill shows how right Ms Gillard was to raise the issue and how right she was in what she raised. This bill is a shot across the bows of Mr Abbott.</para>
<para>We are yet to see if Senator Madigan will use his vote to try to roll back women's right to choose, in a similar way to what former Senator Harradine achieved. We all know that Senator Madigan could have great influence over an Abbott government as he may end up sharing the balance of power in the Senate. If that occurs we obviously do not know what will happen but, again, it is relevant to the tactics being used here. In his speech just delivered Senator Madigan spoke about fights for another day. Those were his exact words, 'fights for another day', which carry a clear implication that the senator is preparing further attacks on women's right to choose. What we know is that the former Prime Minister, in her speech on 11 June, flushed out the opposition leader, Tony Abbott, on the abortion issue.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>00AOQ</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator, I remind you to refer to Mr Abbott by his title.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RHIANNON</name>
    <name.id>CPR</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Sorry, I apologise. I do acknowledge that, when this debate blew up in early June, Mr Abbott did give a guarantee on this issue. He said that he would not do a deal on abortion with Senator Madigan or with any other senator holding the balance of power. As I said, we know that Senator Madigan could end up holding the balance of power, but we also know that some of Mr Abbott's previous comments on abortion are very troubling to many people. During the debate over the availability of the drug RU486 Mr Abbott told the parliament:</para>
<quote><para class="block">We have a bizarre double standard in this country where someone who kills a pregnant woman's baby is guilty of murder but a woman who aborts an unborn baby is simply exercising choice.</para></quote>
<para>Those are deeply troubling words. They are very insulting and they are very painful words for women who make a very difficult and very challenging decision if they choose to have an abortion.</para>
<para>The comments that we have just heard from Senator Cash added to my concerns of whether we can trust Mr Abbott's guarantee. It is a guarantee that has been spelt out in very clever words of 'safe', 'legal' and 'rare' and, as Senator Cash said, they are words that we agree with. But, what is going to happen here? Are we going to see a situation where space is opened up for Senator Madigan to expand the tactics that he is clearly advancing to damage women's right to choose? Senator Cash's speech on this bill, I felt, brought no balance to this issue. I say that because there is no evidence about sex selection. Again I say, so that the Greens' position is not distorted, sex-selection abortion, where it is occurring, is obviously extremely serious and has to be dealt with, but there is no evidence of it happening in Australia. While Senator Cash's language about sex-selection abortion was carefully crafted, it was a speech that Senator Madigan could take encouragement from. It leaves the door open for the DLP agenda.</para>
<para>What is also relevant to this debate is the report that the Senate committee brought down on this bill. I was very surprised and concerned with this report. During my time in this place, which is still short and just coming up to two years, I have not seen a report where there was no recommendation. Here we have a report where Labor and coalition MPs, I believe, failed to stand up for women. There were no recommendations, and there should have been a clear recommendation that this bill should not proceed, because the evidence, when you look at the submissions, is so strong. It is clear that many of the submissions recommended that the bill should not go ahead, and the evidence that I referred to is that there is no evidence about sex-selection abortions in this country. So, the Labor and coalition senators on that committee avoided their responsibility for making any recommendations.</para>
<para>Many of the submissions were very clear. There were submissions from the Public Health Association of Australia, the Australian Medical Association, the New South Wales Council for Civil Liberties, the Women's Legal Services Australia and Reproductive Choice Australia. These groups are opposed to sex-selection abortion and they set out a very clear case of why this bill should not be passed by the Senate. One of the submissions that I would like to refer to came from Women's Legal Services NSW. They set out some very clear evidence, which I think is particularly relevant to the attempt by some to make out that there is a human rights aspect as to why this bill should be passed. The Women's Legal Services New South Wales submission stated:</para>
<quote><para class="block">We are not aware of evidence establishing that sex selective abortions occur in Australia or that Medicare funding has been used to this purpose. We also note that the Explanatory Memorandum and Second Reading Speech for the Bill material do not refer to any specific reports or research on these issues.</para></quote>
<para>They go on to state:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… the Bill fails to identify and address the potential for erosion of human rights, for example, the risk of such legislation obstructing access to safe, affordable, legal reproductive health options, including abortion.</para></quote>
<para>I would like to refer this submission to my colleagues in this place and also to anybody who reads about this issue. They go through various treaties and documents that Australia has signed on to and set out clearly how this bill is inconsistent with our international responsibilities and how damaging it could be in restricting the safe options that they have set out. Some of the treaties and conventions include: the Convention on the Elimination of all Forms of Discrimination against Women, 1979; the Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment, 1989; the International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination, 1965; the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights, 1966; and the 57th session of the United Nations Commission on the Status of Women. Their analysis is very useful on how this bill is inconsistent with our responsibilities under that legislation.</para>
<para>There is also some useful information in the Family Planning New South Wales submission that I found touches in a very useful way on the issue of evidence. The issue of evidence, and the lack of it, is something that a number of speakers have taken up in this debate. Family Planning New South Wales said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Last financial year we had around 28,000 client visits and in the 85 years we have been operating we have no evidence to suggest that pregnancy terminations occur solely on the basis of gender selection.</para></quote>
<para>So there is evidence in the other direction that highlights why this legislation is not needed.</para>
<para>I also recommend that people look at the submission of Reproductive Choice Australia. They have some useful information about the consequences of this bill if it were adopted, particularly with regard to the Medicare rebate, which also needs attention. In their submission they said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Moreover, the Medicare rebate Senator Madigan is proposing to restrict is also used to fund miscarriage and fetal death; there is no way to extricate numbers of voluntary terminations from unintended pregnancy endings.</para></quote>
<para>That gets to the detail of the consequences of part of the provision of this bill that needs to be considered. In their submission, they also say:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The absence of evidence that a problem exists raises the question as to the real motives for the development of this bill. What is known is that Senator Madigan and his Democratic Labour Party …are opposed to every women, for any reason, having access to safe and legal abortion.</para></quote>
<para>Again, I give emphasis to that. I was making reference to that in my opening remarks: the tactics. We need to look beyond this bill and why it is being introduced in this form. The comments from Reproductive Choice Australia pin that down. The comments that they made, in terms of the attitude of Senator Madigan and his Democratic Labor Party, are from the party's own documents—from Senator Madigan's comments to the Sydney Institute earlier this year in a speech called 'Integrity in politics' and from a Democratic Labor Party document called 'Frequently asked questions'.</para>
<para>I certainly acknowledge that this is a very challenging issue, but the attitudes in Australia have changed enormously. By far the majority of people recognise that women have a right to choose. In 2003, the Australian Survey of Social Attitudes looked at this issue. They found that 81 per cent of Australians agree that women should have the right to choose abortion. I think that is something we should keep in mind: the breadth of understanding and support for a woman's right to choose.</para>
<para>There is also some very useful information in the Public Health Association of Australia submission. This again takes up the issue of how this bill would actually work. They consider the restriction on the use of Medicare to fund sex-selective abortion and how that would be implemented. They state:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Restrictions of this nature would be untenable because of the practical difficulties they impose on both health professionals and women.</para></quote>
<para>They give some examples:</para>
<list>How would health professionals ascertain whether the abortion being sought was based on the sex of the foetus?</list>
<list>How would this be done without discriminating against and stigmatising certain groups of women, thereby jeopardising the health services that they receive?</list>
<para>They go on to say:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Restrictions on sex selective abortion in countries such as China and India have not proved successful. Moreover, restrictions on sex selective abortions, if introduced in Australia, have the potential to perpetuate racial and sexual discrimination by ‘stereotyping and racial profiling of Asian women whose motivations for an abortion would be under suspicion.’</para></quote>
<para>There are many concerning aspects about how this proposed legislation can play out. There is real complexity in the medical aspects of sex-selection abortion and whether it should be banned. The Royal Australian and New Zealand College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists, and the National Association of Specialist Obstetricians and Gynaecologists both put in submissions that, again, I urge people to look at, in terms of the implications that could arise medically if such abortions were banned, because of decisions that doctors frequently need to make. There were certainly issues that I had not understood before and I found it very useful.</para>
<para>So we have before us a bill that addresses a non-existent problem. As I said in my opening remarks, what is important here is that we need to ask why. The 'why' seems to be that what is attempted here is to assist to raise doubt in the community about the morality of women who choose abortions—that very right.</para>
<para>This bill can be seen as a stepping stone to restricting those rights and to opening up this issue and, as I said, firing a shot across Mr Abbott's bow in terms of how he will operate the power that he wants to exercise. I think there are enormously damaging implications in the bill in both tactics and the actual basis of the bill itself. I certainly believe that it is a bill that should not be supported in any way.</para>
<para>Debate adjourned.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Criminal Code Amendment (Misrepresentation of Age to a Minor) Bill 2013</title>
          <page.no>4353</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
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            <a type="Bill" href="s906">
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                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Criminal Code Amendment (Misrepresentation of Age to a Minor) Bill 2013</span>
              </p>
            </a>
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        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>4353</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:30</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator XENOPHON</name>
    <name.id>8IV</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>It is with a great sense of privilege but also great sadness that I rise to speak on this bill today. It is a bill that I introduced several months ago. This is the second iteration of a bill to deal with what I and many others in the community believe is a very serious issue. Imagine this: you are the parent of a 14-year-old girl and she has been chatting online with a 20-year-old young man for months. From the photos online and what appear to be live feeds he is good-looking, charming, funny and a musician—except everything about this person is a lie. He is in fact a 47-year-old paedophile and, up until now, everything he has done is perfectly legal because under current online predator laws police need to actually prove the adult is grooming the child for a sexual purpose. So under our laws this online lying to a child does not matter even if a predator attempts to meet that child.</para>
<para>I believe it should matter. I believe the law should change. That is why I have introduced this legislation—the Criminal Code Amendment (Misrepresentation of Age to a Minor) Bill 2013. I wish we did not need the provisions of this bill but, tragically, we do. My South Australian colleagues in particular will be familiar with Carly Ryan's story. In February 2007 15-year-old Carly Ryan, a beautiful vivacious young girl, was brutally assaulted and left to die at Horseshoe Bay in South Australia. When reports of her death were released, the entire state of South Australia and, indeed, the nation were shocked that such a beautiful young woman could be so brutally murdered. We asked each other what kind of monster could do this, and then we found out. Garry Francis Newman was a 47-year-old internet predator who had a history of trying to track young girls online. Police later found that he had over 200 fake online identities. To Carly he represented himself as 20-year-old musician Brandon Kane, and Carly fell in love with this fictitious character. That night at Horseshoe Bay she thought she was finally going to meet her online boyfriend in the flesh. Instead, a man who had taken advantage of her trust and innocence took her life. When police tracked Newman down 11 days after Carly's murder he was logged on to his computer as Brandon Kane and chatting to another 14-year-old girl in Western Australia. It should be said that after a long and dramatic trial for Carly Ryan's family Gary Francis Newman is now serving a life sentence for Carly's murder.</para>
<para>I acknowledge that we already have online grooming laws in Australia, but we do not have anything to directly address the situation where an adult lies about their age to a child online for the purpose of encouraging that child to meet them in person. Because the current laws are too narrow, our enforcement authorities have one hand tied behind their back in the sense that they need to prove that the intention to meet that child is for a sexual purpose. I think that is simply too narrow. There ought to be an offence, albeit a lesser offence but an offence nonetheless, that can allow the police to act and intervene at an early stage to prevent harm being caused. The bill also includes a provision to make it an offence for an adult to misrepresent their age with the intent of committing any other offences.</para>
<para>I previously attempted to address this serious issue in 2010 with the earlier version of this bill. I acknowledge the concerns raised in relation to that bill. Effectively, what that bill said was that, if you lied about your age to a minor online, that itself was the offence. I acknowledge that that was too broad, even though you would have to wonder why an adult would consciously and deliberately lie about their age in communicating with a child. Unfortunately at the time the then South Australian Police Commissioner Mal Hyde said the proposed legislation cast the net too widely. Instead of acknowledging the problem, then Commissioner Hyde, in a submission to a Senate inquiry, narrowly focused on 'unintended consequences' of 'humorous, innocent and erroneous transmissions' that would, if legislation were to be passed, be a breach of the law. I think Commissioner Hyde and other law enforcement officers have not quite got it. This is about protecting children. This is about understanding and acknowledging that if an adult lies about their age to a child via online communications and wants to meet that child that itself should be an offence. You should not need to prove the sexual grooming aspects which make the legislation, I think, problematic. It means that there are enormous resources undertaken to catch these predators when we could actually intervene at a much earlier stage.</para>
<para>This bill was introduced this year with the encouragement and support of Sonya Ryan, Carly's mother. I want to pay tribute to the work that Sonya Ryan has done. Some people when they go through the terrible experience of losing their child—the worst of all possible experiences—crawl into a hole and just forget about life. She could have done that, but instead she fought back. She said she wanted to warn others about this. I have seen the video presentations that she gives at schools. Because they understand that it is a real experience, that it is not just some theoretical issue, the children who listen to Sonya's presentation are absolutely transfixed. They are mesmerised by what she has to say. They understand the whole of the detail of the danger. They understand what it can mean to be the subject of an online predator and what it meant in Carly's case. It is tremendous work that she is doing on an absolute shoestring—the Carly Ryan Foundation operates from Carly's old bedroom. I have been there. It is a fitting memorial and a loving memorial to the life of Carly Ryan. They get literally dozens and dozens of calls each week—thousands of messages each year—from people wanting advice: from parents and from children who do not want to approach their parents because they are scared that there will be some sanctions against them. There are so many cases that have been referred to the law enforcement authorities. There is close cooperation between the Carly Ryan Foundation and those law enforcement authorities. Just a few weeks ago, I was part of a meeting with SAPOL, the South Australian police, in relation to the work that Sonya is doing on behalf of the Carly Ryan Foundation.</para>
<para>I should say that at the beginning of this year Sonya Ryan was named South Australian of the Year and was one of the finalists for Australian of the Year for her tremendous work. It is a richly deserved award. Sonya Ryan believes that in addition to the advocacy work they do, the support they give to parents and children alike and the work that she does amongst schools and the general community the law needs to be changed in order to deal with this serious issue.</para>
<para>I know that further concerns were raised during the committee inquiry into this bill, particularly in relation to the ages specified in the bill and the use of absolute liability provisions. The Attorney-General's Department, in particular, stated their belief that the age provisions and the definition of what constitutes a minor in my bill are not consistent with other Commonwealth criminal law. In the bill as it stands a minor is considered to be someone under 18. However, as the department pointed out, the age of consent is usually set at 16 in Commonwealth criminal law.</para>
<para>The department also stated their concerns about the use of absolute liability provisions in relation to prosecuting an offence under this bill. I have circulated amendments to address these concerns. This is an example of why the committee process for dealing with bills is so important, and I acknowledge that. If a bill has technical flaws or issues that need to be addressed from a public policy point of view, the committee process is the way to deal with that through submissions, through evidence and through hearing from people who have considered the legislation. I appreciate what the Attorney-General's Department has said in relation to this; it seems to be the view of the Federal Police as well. I have circulated amendments to address those concerns. My understanding, and I am sure that I will be picked up by the Deputy Clerk if I am wrong in relation to this, is that the committee report for this bill has been tabled. Through you, Madam Acting Deputy President Moore, I understand it has been; I do not want to be subject to a Privileges Committee inquiry.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>00AOQ</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Xenophon, it has been tabled; you are safe.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator XENOPHON</name>
    <name.id>8IV</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I am safe? I am glad I am safe on something. That is a good thing, Madam Acting Deputy President. In that case, I can freely discuss the report. For the life of me, I cannot understand why the committee, made up of government and opposition senators, still does not support this bill, even with the proposed amendments that deal with the concerns of the Attorney-General's Department. For goodness sake! If you were a parent and some creep—an adult—was communicating with your child under the age of 16 and lying about their age, and then wanted to meet your child, wouldn't you want the law to be able to intervene? It seems to me that it is a matter of common sense, of common decency, that that be the case. Instead, there seems to be a lack of political will to deal with an issue as important as this, an issue that we must address because of the growing risk of online predators and the risk they pose to our children. I am absolutely gobsmacked that the committee in its consideration of the bill, even with the amendments, did not think it appropriate to support the bill, that it did not acknowledge the problem that arises here. It is worth mentioning what Sonya Ryan said in her submission to the inquiry:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Young teens often have a desire to be free of their parent’s authority to gain acceptance as grown‐ups. Teens are naive and inexperienced, especially in dealing with adults who have ulterior motives. Sexual predators take advantage of this naivety. They manipulate kids in an effort to gain trust, which they use to gradually turn seemingly innocent online relationships into real‐life sexual interactions. A predator usually approaches a child initially through harmless chat room or instant message dialogue. Over time—perhaps weeks or even months—the stranger, having obtained as much personal information as possible, grooms the child, gaining his or her trust through compliments, positive statements, and other forms of flattery to build an emotional bond.</para></quote>
<para>Sonya Ryan continues:</para>
<quote><para class="block">We are seeking to add this vital law to address the common denominator in the way online predators behave, they all set up false online profiles, most reduce their online age to present as a peer to the child with the intention to meet that child.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I put it to you that no adult could have a legitimate reason for establishing false profiles with fake names, age and photos to contact and meet a child that is not known to them for legitimate purposes. The proposed law is specifically tailored to that fact.</para></quote>
<para>Sonya goes on to say:</para>
<quote><para class="block">As a nation we need to support our law enforcement units that are dealing with this new form of stranger danger, to ensure that once they have identified a predator, they have the support of this Parliament to apprehend these criminals.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">…   …   …</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This proposed law—</para></quote>
<para>Sonya says—</para>
<quote><para class="block">is the gap between our law enforcement agencies and the ability to make a difference before it’s too late. We have comprehensive laws that protect us from those who seek to commit an act of terror, apprehending the persons evolved prior to the event. I believe we also need to have laws that protect our children on the same basis, to prevent an act of terror, terror that may or may not end in death, but may cause a lifetime of trauma.</para></quote>
<para> </para>
<para>In essence, what Sonya is saying, and I agree, is that we need preventative measures. We need to have the legal option of a place where we can intervene before things go too far and more children are put at risk.</para>
<para>I also want to raise some of the examples stated in the committee submission made by the Attorney-General's Department. The department stated that the bill could not be supported, despite acknowledging that:</para>
<quote><para class="block">It is possible that by requiring an intention to encourage a physical meeting only, this offence may be easier to investigate and prosecute than existing grooming and procuring offences which require evidence of sexual intent, allowing law enforcement agencies to intervene during the preparatory stage of an offence before proof of sexual or other illicit intention is apparent.</para></quote>
<para>Despite this comment, the department declined to give its support to the bill.</para>
<para>The department also gave examples of genuine situations where people lie about their age online, and extrapolated how this might lead to an innocent person being caught under the offences in this bill. But they do not get it. The fact is: this has another element that the 2010 bill did not have—and I acknowledge that. That element is that, in addition to lying about your age to a child, you are wanting to meet them and trying to set up a meeting with that child. It beggars belief that the Attorney-General's Department has taken such a narrow, legalistic view in relation to this.</para>
<para>One particular example used by the department was of an adult using Facebook to distribute invitations to a birthday party, where the adult has humorously exaggerated their age. My proposed amendments removing the absolute liability in the bill will address these concerns.</para>
<para>The department also used the example of a 19-year-old, who could get caught under the provisions in the bill if they represented their age as 18 in order to enter into a relationship with someone who was 17, even though it is legal for them to have consensual intercourse. Firstly, I would hope that a 19-year-old would not think it was okay to lie about their age to a 17-year-old for the purposes of entering a relationship. Secondly, this demonstrates to me that the department does not understand or appreciate the real circumstances—that these lies, in whatever situation, indicate intent to deceive another person.</para>
<para>The internet and online technology are constantly evolving and expanding. They are also now embedded in our lives, and in the lives of our children. In her submission to the inquiry, Ms Susan McLean, a cybersafety expert and educator and a former police officer, summarised research that revealed the extent of this use, and highlighted disturbing trends. In her submission she said that:</para>
<quote><para class="block">A 2005 survey of 742 teens (aged 13 – 18) and 726 tweens (aged 8 – 12) conducted by the Polly Klaas Foundation (USA) reported … 54% of teens admitted communicating with someone they’ve never met using an Instant Messaging program, 50% via email and 45% in a chat room. 16% of all respondents … discovered that someone that they were communicating with online was an adult pretending to be much younger.</para></quote>
<para>The pace of technological growth means children are almost always much more comfortable with online communication than their parents: what we still see as new and different is as essential and normal to them as breathing. New forms of communication mean that we need new laws to protect our children. In cyberspace, we cannot stand by their side as they explore the world. We cannot always set rules and curfews, because our kids can be sitting safe in their rooms—and, even while they are, be in danger.</para>
<para>This bill is an attempt to address some of the techniques used by online predators, so that we can put an additional safeguard in place for our children. If there is not support for this bill, I ask everyone in this place: what do we do, if not this? What do we do? What are our options? How can we make things safer? We know that the current laws are not enough, and I believe that this law, with its amendments, is a genuine attempt to fix it.</para>
<para>Like technology, our response to these unimaginable crimes must keep evolving. We cannot ever say we have a final remedy to a problem, because we do not know what the next problem will be. But I plead with my colleagues in this chamber, and to people in the general community: either this law, or something very close to it, must be passed. It is completely unacceptable that an adult can lie about their age to a child online with the intent of meeting that child and for that not to be a criminal offence. I know it is not supported by my colleagues from the government or the opposition, as I understand it.</para>
<para>But there is a wonderful thing coming up soon—I do not know when—called an election. And, along with Sonya Ryan, I will campaign for this to be an election issue. For all the parents out there, for all the kids out there who have been subject to online predators, this issue will not go away, and we must, with some decent political will—and, I hope, with bipartisanship—address this issue once and for all. There is no excuse to allow this type of behaviour to be not sanctioned by the law, and that is why I will continue to campaign for change, in memory of Carly Ryan. In memory of Carly, who was fifteen and in love, I ask all of you: what do we do next? We must do something to protect those like Carly. In Carly's memory, for all those kids out there who are being targeted by online predators, the law must change, and it must change sooner rather than later. Again, I say to Sonya Ryan: it has been an enormous privilege to be able to work with you on this, and I will not give up until the law is changed.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:50</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FURNER</name>
    <name.id>I0P</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise this evening to contribute to the debate on Senator Xenophon's private member's bill, the Criminal Code Amendment (Misrepresentation of Age to a Minor) Bill 2013. Firstly, let me state that I think the intent is honourable. The intent behind Senator Xenophon's attempt to consider where there might be some cracks or holes in the existing legislation dealing with this particular matter is honourable. However, I put myself in the same position: I am the father of two beautiful daughters, Stacey and Sally, and I now have a granddaughter, Xavia. If I thought for one moment that they were going to be jeopardised by their online communications, their social networking as young adults, I would be one of the first senators on the government side of the chamber to support Senator Xenophon's bill. However, that is not the finding of the main part of the submissions to and of the evidence that was put before the Senate's Legal and Constitutional Affairs Committee, of which I am a member.</para>
<para>We should remind ourselves also of what legislation is out there to protect our youth, to protect the likes of Carly Ryan and make sure that this tragic circumstance never occurs again. We do share Senator Xenophon's concerns on the case of Carly Ryan. It is terrible that that sort of event occurs in our society these days. But Australia has always played a strong role in addressing the sexual exploitation of children, including by developing a strong legal framework to prevent, investigate and prosecute child sex-related offences.</para>
<para>Senator Xenophon attends on a regular basis the Legal and Constitutional affairs estimates committee hearings where I ask the men and women of the Australian Federal Police about their stings and prosecutions in the area of the exploitation of children through online communications and social networking. They often provide examples of their successes in prosecuting the insidious people who prey on children through online communications.</para>
<para>The Commonwealth law already criminalises online communications with children where there is evidence of an intention to cause serious harm to the children. One example is the Commonwealth offence of communicating with a child online with an intention of either engaging in sexual activity with the child or procuring or making it easier to engage in sexual activity with the child, or 'grooming'. These matters were explored and evidence was provided through the substantive part of the inquiry into this bill. These offences currently attract a strong maximum penalty of between 12 and 15 years imprisonment.</para>
<para>It is also an offence to use a telecommunications network with the intention of committing a serious Commonwealth, state or territory offence. This covers cases where an adult communicates with a child online with the intention of communicating and other kinds of serious assault against them. A person who is found guilty of this offence would be subject to the maximum penalty applicable to the specific offence that the person intends to commit. For example, a person who builds a relationship with a child online with the intention of murdering the child would be subject to the penalty applicable for the offence of murder.</para>
<para>The Commonwealth's child sex related offences were strengthened in March 2010 through the passage of the Crimes Legislation Amendment (Sexual Offences Against Children) Act. The amendments in this act were designed to ensure that the Commonwealth offences remain comprehensive and able to deal with contemporary forms of offending. The amendments therefore took into account a range of factors, including law enforcement's operational experience. We were also informed, through submissions, of a consultation paper which was released to the public, including relevant state and territory agencies and non-government organisations. However, the government is of the view that the existing criminal provisions sufficiently cover the relevant offending behaviour.</para>
<para>I can reflect on recent communications I had with a constituent not far from my office expressing similar concerns to those raised by Senator Xenophon in his attempt to address this issue with a private member's bill. I went to the constituent's home and saw firsthand the website he has created that deals with his concerns and those of members on the website. The website is called 'Knights of God'. It should not be seen as a Christian website but as a website where young people who do social networking and engage in fun activities such as playing games are involved in ensuring that the levels of protection and safeguards that this administrator has put in place protect their interests and the particular areas that this bill attempts to address in respect of protection.</para>
<para>I want to go to some of the findings in the committee's report. A number of submitters referred to existing offences in the Criminal Code and stated that these provisions already capture the behaviour we are seeking to capture under the new offences proposed in this bill. For example, the Attorney-General explained that the existing online grooming and procurement offences in the Criminal Code apply where an adult has communicated with a child online with the intent of procuring, or making it easier to procure, a child to engage in sexual activity. They made the relevant point that this would cover circumstances in which an adult misrepresent their age in an online communication with a child for the purpose of encouraging a physical meeting with that child with the intent of engaging in, or making it easier to engage in, sexual activities during a physical meeting. This is the type of evidence we have heard during the legal and constitutional affairs committee inquiry into this matter dealing with online grooming and procurement offences.</para>
<para>The Law Society of South Australia made a submission to the inquiry. They were of the view that this was unnecessary because the Criminal Code already contains grooming offences which more appropriately criminalise conduct of a criminal nature. We also heard about intent to misrepresent one's age. The Attorney-General's Department explained that if only an intention to misrepresent age, and not an actual misrepresentation of age, is required the offence is too broad. Accordingly, an actual misrepresentation of age would be preferable to limit the application of the proposed provision.</para>
<para>So in many circumstances there is protection out there in respect of legislation to capture and prosecute through the Criminal Code offenders such as paedophiles and people who have insidious and devious intentions to target young children in our society. In the area of intention to encourage a physical meeting, submitters to the inquiry raised concerns in relation to a particular aspect of the proposed offence in paragraph 474.40(1)—the intention to encourage the recipient to physically meet with the sender or any other person. In essence, these concerns were that the offence is not consistent with current Criminal Law policy and there is no clear nexus between the non-criminal conduct captured by the proposed offence and the criminal conduct which is the subject of the offence.</para>
<para>The Attorney-General's Department once again advised us that, under Criminal Law, it is highly unusual for lying to be made a criminal offence without an additional element that results in the behaviour being considered sufficiently abhorrent to justify criminal sanctions. Once again, the intention by devious people to induce our youth through social internet engagement is really captured through the Criminal Code and other measures that the current Labor government has put in place through the cyber-bullying and cyber-scrutiny policies it has developed to protect our society.</para>
<para>Debate interrupted.</para>
<para>Proceedings suspended from 18:00 to 19:00</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Charities Bill 2013, Charities (Consequential Amendments and Transitional Provisions) Bill 2013</title>
          <page.no>4360</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
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                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Charities Bill 2013</span>
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            <a type="Bill" href="r5084">
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                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Charities (Consequential Amendments and Transitional Provisions) Bill 2013</span>
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        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>4360</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:00</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak on the Charities Bill 2013 and the Charities (Consequential Amendments and Transitional Provisions) Bill 2013. Acting Deputy President Bishop, I know that I do not need to convince you of the great work that charities do in our community and of the incredible contribution they make to the nation. It is fair to say that Australia would be unrecognisable if the charitable contribution of individuals and of organisations was withdrawn. These organisations really are—it is a cliche but it is true—the glue that holds the community together. They fill in the gaps between what government does, what families do and what businesses do. No government could ever seek to replicate the tremendous good that charities do in our community.</para>
<para>I think it is very important that we as a parliament and government more generally are at the service of charities, doing all that can be done to make life easier for charitable organisations rather than making life more difficult. It is for that reason—to avoid making life more difficult for charitable organisations—that the opposition do have misgivings about this legislation. At the heart of the bill is the attempt to seek to introduce a statutory definition of charity and charitable purpose for the purposes of all Commonwealth legislation. This bill in fact represents the first time legislation has sought to comprehensively define charity for the purposes of Commonwealth law. The current definition has been with us for a little while. It is not currently defined in our statutes. Rather, it is the product of over 400 years of common law based on the Statute of Elizabeth. Given the long history of the current definition, the opposition is of the view that if government believes there is good reason to change the definition then the onus is on the government to make the case for a change from the status quo. The opposition are yet to be convinced by the case that the government has put forward.</para>
<para>Our concern is that changing the definition risks disadvantaging some charities, potentially creating a wave of legal disputes and test cases at a cost to the sector. On this side, we share the view that the state should be doing all that it can to allow not-for-profits, charities and volunteer organisations to do what they do best and to get on with their business. But we start with the principle that the government should do no harm to the efforts and endeavours of charities.</para>
<para>You may recall that the previous coalition government examined in great detail the merit of introducing a statutory definition of charity. In September 2000 the Howard government established the charity definition inquiry to examine whether the common law definition of charity was still appropriate. The inquiry reported in 2001 and made a number of recommendations. After carefully considering the report, the former Treasurer, Mr Costello, released draft legislation in 2003, which took the traditional four heads of charity, I am advised, and divided them into seven heads of charity.</para>
<para>The Board of Taxation handed a report on the workability of the proposed definition to the former Treasurer in December 2003. In May 2004 Mr Costello announced that:</para>
<para>… the common law meaning of a charity will continue to apply, but the definition will be extended to include certain child care and self-help groups, and closed or contemplative religious orders. The Government has decided not to proceed with the draft Charities Bill.</para>
<para>The Howard government enacted the extension of the Charitable Purposes Act 2004, which confined itself to enlarging the legal definition of charity for federal purposes to include child care, self-help groups and closed orders. The approach of the Howard government enhanced the common law definition. It allowed charities to do what they do best without interference from the state, and it reflected the coalition's philosophical approach to charities—we believe that charities should be left to do what they do best. I think all of us recognise that Australian charities and not-for-profit organisations strengthen our nation through their contribution. The government needs to respect that and not do anything that might hinder that.</para>
<para>The government, I fear, has a slightly different emphasis in their approach to civil society. I think it would be fair to say that the Labor Party have more of an interventionist tendency. There is some evidence that they do view the sector, on occasion, with a little bit of suspicion. The Australian Charities and Not-for-profits Commission is an example of this. In the view of many organisations, it imposes some pretty significant reporting requirements, demands large amounts of information and makes doing their work that little bit harder.</para>
<para>Mr Gonski, of another fame, has stated that Australia is the first country in the world to make being a director of a not-for-profit organisation more onerous than being on the board of a for-profit organisation. That would be perverse and I would not contend that that was the current government's intention or the intention of the Australian Charities and Not-for-Profit Commission. Nevertheless, well intentioned governments do sometimes make life harder for these organisations.</para>
<para>As I said earlier, it is the role of the parliament and of government more broadly to be at the service of the charitable sector rather than the other way around. It is important that we always keep that in view when looking at legislation that may affect the charitable sector. These bills—and also the Australian Charities and Not-for-profits Commission—give a little bit of an insight into the different approaches of each side of the chamber in relation to the charitable sector. The coalition will be opposing these bills. It is our hope that the legislation is not passed into law.</para>
<para>As the shadow minister for disabilities and the voluntary sector in particular, I want to take a moment in conclusion to reflect on the role that charitable organisations play in my area of portfolio responsibilities. So many of the great organisations in the disability portfolio came about as the result of parents of children with disability who saw a need—they were not getting the support that they required—often back in the 1950s and 1960s. Those parents got together and founded many of the great charitable organisations in the disability sector. Many of those organisations had, at the time of their founding, names that we would raise an eyebrow at today, but the parents at the time were not terribly focused on political correctness or the names of their organisations; they just wanted to get things done. Often they took a fairly unadorned and functional approach to the names of the organisations that they established. It is so often the case that, today, when I meet with organisations in the disability sector, they can trace their foundation back to parents who got together because they wanted to do something positive for their children and set about fundraising.</para>
<para>In a perfect world that would not have been necessary, but it is one of the great strengths of our community that, still, where people see a need in Australia they do not wait for government to catch up to where they think it should be; they get about the job of doing what needs to be done. It is heartening that the launch sites of the national disability insurance scheme are going live in a matter of only a few days—on 1 July. How those parents who founded those disability organisations in the fifties and sixties would have loved something like the NDIS when their own children were young! But better late than never. The NDIS will make a huge difference. But even on the eve of a great social venture such as the NDIS, which will lift the burden from so many families and so many people with disability, it is important that we pause and take a moment to acknowledge that there will always be a place in the disability sector, and more broadly, for not-for-profit organisations—for charitable organisations—where people come together and see a need.</para>
<para>Even in the face of a great venture such as the NDIS there will always be a need. And it is important that there will always be a space for charitable organisations and voluntary contributions. So, even though we have good news on the horizon it is important to acknowledge the role that will continue to be played by charitable organisations, not-for-profit organisations and the voluntary sector.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:13</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SIEWERT</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I, too, rise to speak on the Charities Bill 2013 and the Charities (Consequential Amendments and Transitional Provisions) Bill 2013, and indicate that the Australian Greens will be supporting these bills.</para>
<para>I have spent a lot of time working on this legislation and working on the suite of reforms for the charities and not-for-profit sector that have been achieved over the last period of time, particularly over the last 12 months. I believe that this is a key part of that legislation. It helps to cement in place the support, protection and—with the ACNC legislation passing—the regulation of this sector.</para>
<para>These reforms are absolutely essential for the vibrant, diverse and, I must say above all, independent, fearless civil society. These protections, these bills and this reform are essential to ensure that we have that fearless civil society. We know that in Australia we have a very vibrant civil society. We have a vibrant set of charity and not-for-profit organisations and we know that they strive tirelessly—often the face of significant self-interests—to serve, defend and promote the broader needs of our community.</para>
<para>The tax concessions that some of these organisations receive allow them to carry out this work, delivering important services to the community and often filling in the gaps where the government has failed to act or is in fact incapable of acting. They provide services such as emergency relief services, which are being called upon more and more in this country. They provide services to the homeless as well as other forms of community services. They provide environmental support services. They also provide services protecting, managing and restoring our natural resources. They are active across the full range of our society.</para>
<para>The representations that these organisations make on behalf of the marginalised and vulnerable members of our community are absolutely critical. Their contributions to the public policy debate are absolutely crucial. In fact, civil society not-for-profit organisations and charities are broadly leading public debate. This place follows their lead. We have no better example of that than the national disability insurance scheme, DisabilityCare. As I have said in this place before and as Senator Fifield was just commenting on as well, they had the concept and the dream about a national disability insurance scheme. If it was not for those groups, we would not have it. The politicians in this place—all of us—followed their lead. That is just one example of the changes that charitable organisations have been responsible for.</para>
<para>As a parliamentarian, I am indeed indebted to so many organisations that—despite being chronically understaffed and underfunded and despite facing a range of immediate needs from their clients or members—provide advice and contribute to debates. Importantly, they contribute to the debate in this place through Senate inquiries. Most Senate inquiries have a charity making submissions to them in some form. In doing so, they do not just bring problems to this place. More often than not, they bring the solutions—in other words, they again provide that leadership.</para>
<para>This bill is yet another piece of important reform in this sector and one that has been a long time coming. The proposal to introduce a statutory definition of charities was most recently first launched—and I say that advisedly!—in 2001, although having worked in the sector for a long time previous to coming into this place, I can say that one of the issues that we had been talking about on and off over all that time was the definition of 'charity' and whether a particular charity or not-for-profit gets tax deductibility et cetera. It was on the agenda a long time before 2001. This is an issue that has had significant consideration over a number of decades, in fact, and not just over the last decade.</para>
<para>On this particular piece of legislation, I have tried to consult widely with the sector. I have consulted with the lawyers of many charities. They have been very generous with their time and knowledge. Overall, I think that there is strong consensus in the sector that Australia needs to modernise its laws on charity. I know that some stakeholders would have preferred a definition that was a bit broader. But I can categorically say that I have had overwhelming lobbying to support the definition of charities—emails, phone calls, texts. They want to see this definition get up, because they believe that this is a significant step forward. This step, as I said, has been quite a long time coming. However, I must say that there were concerns raised with us, and I and the Greens had concerns when we first read the bill. I will go into them in a second.</para>
<para>We do not believe that we can any longer rely on complex and confusing definitions of charities that in part are based on 16th century law and arbitrary legislative interventions. The law as it currently stands really only recognises four heads of charity: poverty, education, religion and other purposes beneficial to the community. Other areas, such as the protection of the environment, are often considered in an ad hoc manner. This can have significant impact on charities. It can be very difficult and costly for a charity that does not fit neatly into this 16th century concept of public benefit to prove its charitable status. This diverts time and energy that could be better spent on the other much more important things that the charity is established to do.</para>
<para>While the definition has not been fully overhauled as some people, particularly in the past, have been advocating for, I welcome the explicit recognition of charitable purpose related to health, culture, the environment and human rights, including reconciliation. The bill clarifies key areas of legal uncertainty, including the relationship between government and charity and the application of the definition of 'charity' to native title. The bill also reflects the ways in which modern charities advance causes by preventing, educating, conducting research and raising awareness.</para>
<para>We also focused on how this legislation impacts organisations that work closely to address housing and homelessness. There were some concerns that the current work in the housing affordability area is not recognised by the bill. But I have sought assurances that this will continue to be possible under the bill, and the bill also grandfathers in existing arrangements so that any organisation that is currently charitable will not be at risk of losing its charity status in the middle of a project. These are all important and welcome changes.</para>
<para>But the most important thing about this bill is that it secures a right for charities to have a purpose that is focused on advocacy. All charities can undertake advocacy as a legitimate activity without the threat of losing their charitable status. Ensuring that this right to engage in advocacy, including political advocacy, was clear is one of a number of improvements to the explanatory memorandum that were introduced as a result of advocacy by the Greens to strengthen the bill. The explanatory memorandum now clearly spells out that this bill enshrines the High Court decision in the Aid/Watch case, which ensures that charities can advocate changes to laws, policies and practices without jeopardising their charitable status. The full wording of paragraph 73 of the 2001/4 tax ruling is now embedded in the EM. Other improvements to the EM clarify that advocacy and advancing public debate cannot of themselves produce a detriment, even if a change of public policy or legislation by government has a detriment to certain members of the public. For charities that fall under the category of advancing the natural environment, we have ensured that the category is classified in the EM so that it is clear that all work, whether it is in an urban landscape or a wild place, can be considered charitable and that promoting sustainable development includes promoting ecologically sustainable urban environments and resource sustainability.</para>
<para>With these clarifications in the EM, we will be supporting the passage of this legislation. These amendments to improve the clarity of the bill were critical, because we are concerned about the future of the sector. Speeches on this bill in the lower house demonstrate why there is a need to ensure that the important work of charities and the not-for-profit sector is in fact protected from interference by government that does not like to have its policies scrutinised. Tax on environmental organisations in the past has been particularly vicious and unnecessary and makes those groups extremely nervous. Maybe for some in this place the contributions of a strong not-for-profit sector are unwelcome. The Australian Greens do not share this view. We believe it is absolutely critical to acknowledge the important work charities do. They cannot be subject to harassment the way they have been in the past. In the past, organisations that spoke out became the focus for deregistration—or, in fact, became the focus for putting the famous gag clauses in. We believe their independence is essential. They should be fearlessly able to advocate for policy change, even if we in this place do not like it.</para>
<para>That is why we are very pleased that other steps have been taken to secure the independence of the sector. Other initiatives the Greens have supported or been involved with include, of course, establishing the Australian Charities and Not-for-profits Commission. We debated that particular legislation just late last year. In fact, we moved amendments that strengthened that legislation. Although I have been concerned—and I mentioned it in this place just two days ago—at the ACNC's heavy-handedness, the Greens chose to support the ACNC because we believe that putting in place appropriate regulation is a step towards a better, stronger and more vibrant not-for-profit and charitable sector and takes the sector a step further away from interference by government.</para>
<para>Through the ACNC legislation the Australian Greens secured a further commitment that freedom to advocate would be protected—a commitment that the government, to its credit, delivered on with the Not-for-profit Sector Freedom to Advocate Bill 2013, which protects the independence of charities and the not-for-profit sector by ensuring that government cannot use its position, often as a sole provider, to stop not-for-profit advocacy as part of any contracting clauses. Now adding to these improvements, this definition will ensure that the breadth of charitable purposes recognised in our contemporary community is in fact recognised in law and that all charities can use the tools of political and policy advocacy in furthering their charitable purposes without fear of losing that status or having retribution. The Greens will be supporting this legislation.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:26</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator STEPHENS</name>
    <name.id>00AOS</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I want to thank Senator Siewert for her contribution to this debate on the charities legislation tonight, because she has gone to the core—the nub—of this issue. And I want to reassure Senator Fifield that, rather than placing an onerous regulatory burden on our charities and not-for-profit sector, these bills before us tonight are going to enhance the capacity of those organisations that are going to be engaged so intimately in the DisabilityCare Australia process. They are actually going to relieve them of many burdens.</para>
<para>I am speaking this evening because I want to acknowledge the long history this suite of bills has had in this place and in previous parliaments—and Senator Fifield perhaps was working in the former Treasurer's office when the first discussions about this occurred. But of course it goes back even further than that, to the Industry Commission report in the 1990s. Many, many people have been involved, and I really want to thank everyone who has been committed to persisting in working to achieve an independent regulator for Australia's charities and not-for-profit sector. Everyone says the seminal document really is the Productivity Commission's report of 2010, which laid out the blueprint for change and reform that had to happen in the sector to modernise the sector and to ensure its long-term sustainability. That report created the snapshot that the sector contributes more than $40 billion a year to GDP, more than 600,000 organisations and more than one million staff—and that is the quantifiable contribution—but that the real value of the sector is often the unattributed contribution to the quality of life that we all experience in Australia.</para>
<para>I would like to place on the record the important work of the Community Council for Australia. In their submission to the Parliamentary Joint Committee on Corporations and Financial Services inquiry into these bills they make this point—and this is the nub of why we need this suite of bills:</para>
<quote><para class="block">If an NFP wants to hire a local hall at a discounted charitable rate, gain a concession on local rates charges, achieve a reduction in payroll tax, put forward a submission for funding, participate in a government tender process, register a fundraising activity or seek to claim a concession of any kind, the organisation must be able to produce some kind of bona fides, a kind of organisational passport. At present no such document exists. Charities are forced to provide copies of letters from the Australian Taxation Office that define their eligibility for taxation concessions as proof of their charitable status. This situation has proven to be very problematic, costly and counterproductive.</para></quote>
<para>That is it, in a nutshell. What is being achieved through these bills is the establishment of an independent regulator. And I want to commend the work of the ACNC task force and the first ACNC commissioner, Susan Pascoe, and her team. They have done the most amazing job in working through the mechanics of how the ACNC will operate as a light-touch regulator and as an enabler of our charities and not-for-profits. Their work through the last six months has been extraordinary, and I would really like to congratulate the staff and the commissioners for their efforts.</para>
<para>The passport will be extraordinary. The consequences in savings in time, energy and resources will be amazing, and there will be flow-on reductions to red tape rather than any sense of a regulatory burden. Duplication and compliance costs will be reduced and they will translate into better frontline services for our communities.</para>
<para>In the six months the ACNC has been operating, the ACNC team has actually taken over 11,000 phone calls, received over 17,000 email requests for information and had face to face consultations with over 1,000 not-for-profits in workshops and presentations across the country. At the same time, more than 250 new charities have been registered on the new website, more than 10 new guides and fact sheets have been prepared and been released and the ACNC has received over 150 complaints about charities, resolved mostly through various forms of mediation. Not one charity has been deregistered, because that is not what the ACNC is taking as its first line. Its first line of approach is to mediate and resolve and remediate by educating and enabling the organisations.</para>
<para>So we have a very effective ACNC in place, and I really do call on the opposition to reconsider their objections to the ACNC and to these bills. The shadow spokesman has already indicated to the sector that it is his intention to wind back the ACNC, to actually reverse the progress that has been made in this important space. So I really do call on the opposition to reconsider that position.</para>
<para>I would like the acknowledge the work of the Assistant Treasurer David Bradbury and his staff, Minister Butler and his staff and the many groups and organisation who have worked so hard to advise the ACNC advisory council and bring common sense to the debate.</para>
<para>This package of bills is being lauded around the world as the most progressive and substantive not-for-profit governance package of bills, a best practice model for other jurisdictions. They deserve our support.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:31</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BOYCE</name>
    <name.id>H6V</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Once again I will speak very briefly so that there is some vague hope of others having a chance to speak on this bill. I am sure that every senator who has taken and will take part in this debate, truncated as it is, has the best interests of the charities of Australia at heart.</para>
<para>But I must admit that I continue to look at the large charities and the smaller charities and I see a vast difference. In many cases it is like the comparison between Myer and the local milk bar, such that recently a Victorian advocate for the not-for-profit sector has established a peak group for not-for-profits that employ two or fewer people. They found that necessary because whilst we have the government telling us how every charity in Australia thinks this is wonderful, the only people who have really been spoken to are the corporate charities, the big ones—the Red Cross, the Salvation Army et cetera. These people do great jobs but they are not the representatives of every entity that should be considered a charity in Australia. I have real concerns about how the government has consulted, if at all, and how the government has heard, if at all, the message coming from small charities.</para>
<para>There are also concerns about how this has been put together. Areas have been left out of the human rights aspects of the bill. ACOSS, for example, talked about the lack of clarity when an entity lacks the element of public benefit, and the idea that the way you decide on public benefit is in the absence of evidence to the contrary. If part of this bill is about taking these issues out of the courts and back into the legislature, I have no idea how a section that talks about 'in the absence of evidence to the contrary' assists in this matter.</para>
<para>We also have a section put together by Treasury that looks at the amendments that were accepted to this bill. But they do not look at the amendments to the bill that were not accepted, and nor do we have any explanation as to why they were not accepted. We just have to look at the definition of a charity:</para>
<quote><para class="block">charity means an entity:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) that is a not-for-profit entity; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) all of the purposes of which are:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) charitable purposes (see Part 3) that are for the public benefit (see Division 2 of this Part); …</para></quote>
<para>No-one has explained quite how op-shops and other enterprises, profit-making enterprises providing profits to charitable organisations, are to work.</para>
<para>Section 6 of this bill talks about public benefit. It says:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(a) the achievement of the purpose would be of public benefit; …</para></quote>
<para>And must be available to:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(i) the general public; or</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) a sufficient section of the general public.</para></quote>
<para>What does a 'sufficient section' mean? The bill also refers to 'tangible' or 'intangible' benefit. What does that mean? One imagines that all these matters could be something that will be the matter of court action if people do not like the reasons that a 'sufficient section' is involved or that a benefit is 'tangible'.</para>
<para>As Senator Stephens alluded to, a coalition government would repeal this bill and would set up a body that was simply designed for educative and training purposes. I am sure they could answer all the questions that Senator Stephens has pointed out are there, without a massive new regulatory burden that undermines 400 years of case law around the definition of 'charity'.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:36</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator XENOPHON</name>
    <name.id>8IV</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Because of the limited time available for this bill because of the guillotine I will truncate my remarks significantly. I indicate my support for this bill. I believe it is overdue, and, as Senator Stephens has pointed out, there have been multiple past inquiries in relation to this. I see this bill as helping the charities sector. I take into account what Senator Boyce has said about having unnecessary red tape for smaller charities, and I believe this bill does have a tiered approach in respect of that.</para>
<para>I think we need to define 'charitable purposes' and therefore a 'benefit for the public'. At the moment, we go back to England's Charitable Uses Act of 1601. It has been around for more than 400 years, and we actually need to have some sensible, codified reform in relation to this. We have seen in New Zealand recently and, for a number of years, in the UK that they have had charities commissions in place. I believe these have worked effectively to support organisations and to hold the very few rogue organisations to account. I direct members of the Senate to some of the decisions of the charities commissions in respect of that.</para>
<para>I draw senators' attention to the excellent work done by Professor Gino Dal Pont of the University of Tasmania and to his paper on the uniqueness of charity through the prism of public benefit. I was lucky enough to hear his presentation earlier this year. I cannot, because of time, discuss what Professor Dal Pont said, but, basically, he gives a very good explanation of the history of this. I believe it strengthens the need for legislation such as this. It is important to note that a similar test of public benefit exists in other countries—UK, New Zealand, Singapore and a whole range of jurisdictions around the world.</para>
<para>Why do we need it? Because, occasionally, there are organisations that abuse that tax-free status. This is not about belief. This is not about advocacy. This is not about impinging on anything like that, but it is about making sure that an organisation that abuses the privilege is held to some measure of reasonable account. Having a public benefit test is important in relation to that. Let us make it very clear, the benefits that we give to charities are between $1 billion and $8 billion a year, according to a Senate economics inquiry that I instigated and was part of in relation to looking at the tax act and the public benefit test.</para>
<para>Imagine where we would be, as a nation, without the benefit of charities? I dread to think how many bureaucrats it would take—no disrespect to bureaucrats or those from large corporations—to set up a soup kitchen. The work that charities do is invaluable. The cohesiveness of our society—our social fabric—would be torn without it.</para>
<para>I believe that this bill is an evolving measure. Let us see how effective it is. Let us see if it needs to be fine-tuned in years to come, but I believe the principles are sound and I believe that what we see here is a useful piece of legislation that will hold organisations to account. It would be remiss of me not to say, in the remaining 20 seconds, that I became interested in this field because I was approached by a number of victims from the Church of Scientology. I believe that all organisations, if they are behaving in an abusive manner, ought to be held to some measure of account. A public benefit test is a useful measure of that.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>7L6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the bills be now read a second time.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [19:44]<br />(The President—Senator Hogg)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>37</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Bilyk, CL</name>
                  <name>Bishop, TM</name>
                  <name>Brown, CL (teller)</name>
                  <name>Cameron, DN</name>
                  <name>Carr, KJ</name>
                  <name>Collins, JMA</name>
                  <name>Crossin, P</name>
                  <name>Di Natale, R</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D</name>
                  <name>Faulkner, J</name>
                  <name>Feeney, D</name>
                  <name>Furner, ML</name>
                  <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                  <name>Hogg, JJ</name>
                  <name>Lines, S</name>
                  <name>Ludlam, S</name>
                  <name>Lundy, KA</name>
                  <name>Marshall, GM</name>
                  <name>McEwen, A</name>
                  <name>McLucas, J</name>
                  <name>Milne, C</name>
                  <name>Moore, CM</name>
                  <name>Polley, H</name>
                  <name>Pratt, LC</name>
                  <name>Rhiannon, L</name>
                  <name>Siewert, R</name>
                  <name>Singh, LM</name>
                  <name>Stephens, U</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G</name>
                  <name>Thistlethwaite, M</name>
                  <name>Thorp, LE</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, AE</name>
                  <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                  <name>Wright, PL</name>
                  <name>Xenophon, N</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>30</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Back, CJ</name>
                  <name>Bernardi, C</name>
                  <name>Birmingham, SJ</name>
                  <name>Boyce, SK</name>
                  <name>Brandis, GH</name>
                  <name>Bushby, DC</name>
                  <name>Cash, MC</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                  <name>Edwards, S</name>
                  <name>Eggleston, A</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, DJ</name>
                  <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                  <name>Fifield, MP</name>
                  <name>Heffernan, W</name>
                  <name>Humphries, G</name>
                  <name>Joyce, B</name>
                  <name>Kroger, H (teller)</name>
                  <name>Macdonald, ID</name>
                  <name>Madigan, JJ</name>
                  <name>Mason, B</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                  <name>Nash, F</name>
                  <name>Parry, S</name>
                  <name>Payne, MA</name>
                  <name>Ronaldson, M</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A</name>
                  <name>Ryan, SM</name>
                  <name>Sinodinos, A</name>
                  <name>Smith, D</name>
                  <name>Williams, JR</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names></names>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to.<br />Bills read a second time.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division></subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Third Reading</title>
            <page.no>4369</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:50</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>7L6</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The question now is that the remaining stages of these bills be agreed to and the bills be now passed.</para>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [19:50]<br />(The President—Senator Hogg)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>37</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Bilyk, CL</name>
                  <name>Bishop, TM</name>
                  <name>Brown, CL (teller)</name>
                  <name>Cameron, DN</name>
                  <name>Carr, KJ</name>
                  <name>Collins, JMA</name>
                  <name>Crossin, P</name>
                  <name>Di Natale, R</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D</name>
                  <name>Faulkner, J</name>
                  <name>Feeney, D</name>
                  <name>Furner, ML</name>
                  <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                  <name>Hogg, JJ</name>
                  <name>Lines, S</name>
                  <name>Ludlam, S</name>
                  <name>Lundy, KA</name>
                  <name>Marshall, GM</name>
                  <name>McEwen, A</name>
                  <name>McLucas, J</name>
                  <name>Milne, C</name>
                  <name>Moore, CM</name>
                  <name>Polley, H</name>
                  <name>Pratt, LC</name>
                  <name>Rhiannon, L</name>
                  <name>Siewert, R</name>
                  <name>Singh, LM</name>
                  <name>Stephens, U</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G</name>
                  <name>Thistlethwaite, M</name>
                  <name>Thorp, LE</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, AE</name>
                  <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                  <name>Wright, PL</name>
                  <name>Xenophon, N</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>30</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Back, CJ</name>
                  <name>Bernardi, C</name>
                  <name>Birmingham, SJ</name>
                  <name>Boyce, SK</name>
                  <name>Brandis, GH</name>
                  <name>Bushby, DC</name>
                  <name>Cash, MC</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                  <name>Edwards, S</name>
                  <name>Eggleston, A</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, DJ</name>
                  <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                  <name>Fifield, MP</name>
                  <name>Heffernan, W</name>
                  <name>Humphries, G</name>
                  <name>Joyce, B</name>
                  <name>Kroger, H (teller)</name>
                  <name>Macdonald, ID</name>
                  <name>Madigan, JJ</name>
                  <name>Mason, B</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                  <name>Nash, F</name>
                  <name>Parry, S</name>
                  <name>Payne, MA</name>
                  <name>Ronaldson, M</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A</name>
                  <name>Ryan, SM</name>
                  <name>Sinodinos, A</name>
                  <name>Smith, D</name>
                  <name>Williams, JR</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names></names>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to.<br />Bills read a third time.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division></subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Crimes Legislation Amendment (Law Enforcement Integrity, Vulnerable Witness Protection and Other Measures) Bill 2013</title>
          <page.no>4370</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" style="" background="" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint">
            <a type="Bill" href="r5067">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Crimes Legislation Amendment (Law Enforcement Integrity, Vulnerable Witness Protection and Other Measures) Bill 2013</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>4370</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:52</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Crimes Legislation Amendment (Law Enforcement Integrity, Vulnerable Witness Protection and Other Measures) Bill 2013 makes a number of technical and enabling amendments to streamline investigations and prosecutions of people-smuggling crew which appear to the coalition to be quite sensible changes. This bill was referred to the Senate Standing Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs, which reported just yesterday and recommended that the bill be passed—a recommendation in which coalition members joined. It is worth quoting from the additional comments of the Liberal senators. They said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Coalition senators consider that the terms of the … Bill 2013 are directed at a number of apparently useful changes to existing legislation. Some of those changes have been expressly welcomed by submitters to the inquiry.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">However, Coalition senators take this opportunity to outline their concerns with the lack of proper scrutiny which this bill has been afforded under this rushed reference to the committee.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Input to this inquiry has been seriously hampered by the restrictive timeframe, putting at risk the strong reputation of this committee for conducting careful and comprehensive scrutiny of every bill referred to it.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It is this fact that Australian Lawyers for Human Rights … raise in their submission where they state:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The fact that submissions are required in less than 40 hours destroys any notion of accountability and public scrutiny which is sought to be provided by public involvement in the committee process.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">They go on to say:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">However because of the time period the Parliament has chosen to allocate for submissions, ALHR—</para></quote>
<para>that is, Australian Lawyers for Human Rights—</para>
<quote><para class="block">are unable to assess and respond on these matters. We would like the Committee to note our concern and opposition to such a short time being made for submissions.</para></quote>
<para>So, even though this week the government has made a farce of the role of the Senate as a house of review by guillotining through 55 bills in a week—an absolute farce—and although their complicity in that legislative manoeuvre has exposed the Greens to be the rank hypocrites that they are, never will one of them be able to say, without knowing themselves to be uttering wilfully dishonest statements, that they care about the role of the Senate as a house of review.</para>
<para>Notwithstanding that, it is worth remembering that it is not merely in the Senate chamber that this government's abridgement of democratic processes is seen. It is also seen in the abuse by the government of the committee system. How extraordinary that a bill of this kind should require public submissions from the time of advertisement to the time of closure to be provided in 40 hours—less than two business days?</para>
<para>It is bad enough to guillotine legislation through the chamber; it is even worse to effectively guillotine the committee system, because the committee system is the point of direct intersection between the parliament and the public. It is the point of direct intersection between the parliament and, in particular, the specialist public—like, for example, on a bill relating to the criminal justice system, the legal profession and criminal law practitioners and people who work with victims and work with offenders—to solicit their expert input so that the Senate's deliberations can be informed by the people on the ground, as it were, who are in the best position to advise the parliament as to the effectiveness or appropriateness of bills and opportunities to reform those bills.</para>
<para>I think this bill, which the opposition, as I said, does support, provides a shocking example of the way in which the guillotining of legislation not merely interferes with the parliament's capacity to deliberate but it also foreshortens to the point of effective irrelevance the public's capacity to contribute to the Senate committee system. The gibbering fools who comprise the Greens party and who speak so loudly and eloquently about democracy and the role of the Senate as a house of review are complicit in that. So let us not take any protestations from you, Senator Rhiannon, or you Senator Penny Wright, or you Senator Di Natale, or you Senator—whoever you are—Siewert seriously. In any event, having made the point about the disgraceful process which has attended this bill—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Siewert</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr Acting Deputy President, I rise on a point of order. Senator Brandis can at least use our proper names when he is taking up the valuable time of the Senate hurling abuse. He could at least use our proper names.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Through you, Mr Acting Deputy President: I am sorry, Senator Siewert. I thought your name was Senator Siewert, but I momentarily forgot it.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Siewert</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr Acting Deputy President, he also forgot Senator Di Natale's name.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr Acting Deputy President, is there a point of order?</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>225307</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>No, it has not risen to one.</para>
<para>A government senator interjecting—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>225307</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! I just remind the chamber that every senator has an obligation to address each of the other senators by their correct name. Thank you very much.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Certainly, Mr Acting Deputy President. I simply forgot Senator Siewert's name momentarily. I was reflecting on the grossness of the hypocrisy of the Greens party in allowing the process of deliberation, not just in the chamber but through the Senate committee process, to be so truncated as to be virtually non-existent. But, nevertheless, the opposition have scrutinised the terms of the bill and we are satisfied with it and find ourselves able to support it.</para>
<para>The Liberal senators devoted most of their report to a critique of the inadequacy of the committee process. I have made the observations that I wanted to make about that. As to the substance of the bill, the provisions seem to us to be sensible and, therefore, as indicated at the start, the bill has the coalition's support.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>20:00</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BOYCE</name>
    <name.id>H6V</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I was unfortunately unable to participate in this inquiry which was conducted by the committee that you, Madam Acting Deputy President Crossin, chaired. But, as you would be aware, our references committee had already looked in some depth at some of the issues involved in this bill—for example, the question of wrist X-rays as a way of indicating the age of an individual. I do not think anyone at all in Australia would like the prospect of us imprisoning children with adults, so ascertaining if someone is a minor or not is something that we certainly need to be able to do.</para>
<para>It will be interesting to see how in practice this bill pans out. We know now that we will not use wrist X-rays as a way of determining the age of the person who is involved in perhaps people smuggling or illegal fishing in Australia. What we will do instead is use an evidentiary certificate which will contain factual matters, including the number of passengers on a vessel, the number of persons who crewed the vessel, the location of the vessel, when the vessel was intercepted and a description of items secured or seized. I am not entirely sure how this is going to help us to assess the true age of someone who is intercepted on a boat, either a people-smuggling vessel or an illegal fishing vessel, but we shall see how this comes about in the long term.</para>
<para>There is the serious problem that this may in fact encourage adults to claim to be children. Whilst it would seem a fairly simple matter to solve for Australians, thinking, 'For heaven's sake; can't we just get their birth certificate?', we have had a lot of evidence from the Australian Federal Police and others pointing out that in fact we cannot just send someone over to a fishing village in Indonesia to go through the church records or police records there. In some cases there may be fairly rudimentary records kept. In other cases it may take months and months to receive any sort of evidence back from authorities in the relevant jurisdiction, be it a village or a province.</para>
<para>But there was also evidence given in the earlier inquiry—which I think you will acknowledge, Madam Acting Deputy President, was a far more in-depth inquiry than the very rushed effort that was put together for this bill—that in fact there were opportunities presented to the jailers of minors who were in adult detention to find out about their age. There were people who, through interpreters and others, suggested that adults and others could be rung in their home states or villages to try to give some sort of evidence about their age—yet much of this was ignored. It is a very fraught area, and I will be interested to see how this works out in practice. But certainly there would be no group that would want children to be held in detention as adults.</para>
<para>But we do have to keep in mind that there is the possibility of adults pretending to be children so that they can avoid the sort of detention that is being talked about because, as this bill points out, the idea with children would be to send them home as quickly as possible. In fact, the then Minister for Home Affairs, Brendan O'Connor—that is about six ministers ago now, I think!—talked with Indonesian ministers and officials, as part of a visit to Jakarta, about the age determination process for people involved in people smuggling. After his discussions with the Indonesians in 2011, he said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">What we've made very clear to the Indonesian government is that we will set in place an administrative arrangement where the matter is not referred to the AFP but there will be a determination by the Department of Immigration and Citizenship, and then the International Office of Migration will accompany those minors home as quickly as possible.</para></quote>
<para>Those procedural changes have occurred, but we now have this difficulty of the AFP dealing with adults and not with children. I really cannot see quite how that will transpire long term. We will be interested to follow this. Hopefully, it will not lead to a great change in the numbers that are presented.</para>
<para>What we will end up with here is no prescribed procedure for determining age under the Crimes Regulations. As I have said, this amendment implements a recommendation of the Senate Legal and Constitutional Affairs Legislation Committee and responds to concerns of the Australian Human Rights Commission and, indeed, advice from the Office of the Chief Scientist, who was unable to be very specific about whether he thought that wrist x-rays worked or not.</para>
<para>But there really is not sufficient scientific data to support use of wrist x-rays to determine whether a person is a minor. Regulation 6C of the Crimes Regulations prescribes wrist x-rays as a procedure for determining age and so forth. In the past the AFP have arranged for wrist x-rays to happen and have put expert analysis of those x-rays before the court as evidence of an age-determination hearing. This will no longer happen. Certainly wrist x-rays have been sufficiently devalued as a way of ascertaining age for us not to use them, but we do not have any regulations at all for that other than what appear to be very, very lengthy procedural inquiries that need to be made. I think we need to proceed with caution in this area, particularly if we suddenly find that we have an epidemic of under-16-year-olds coming to Australia.</para>
<para>Because we have a time limit on the debate for this bill—we have the gag yet again; we had a gagged inquiry and now we have a gagged debate—I will stop my comments now and give others an opportunity to speak on this legislation.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>20:09</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HUMPHRIES</name>
    <name.id>KO6</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I can only pick up on the comments made just a moment ago by Senator Boyce about the unsatisfactory nature of this process. Once again we have had significant legislation presented to the Senate with an extraordinary degree of haste and a level of abuse of due process such that one has to wonder whether, at the end of the day, we as a parliament and, in particular, the Senate as a house of review, are doing our job properly in examining the implications of legislation of this kind.</para>
<para>The Crimes Legislation Amendment (Law Enforcement Integrity, Vulnerable Witness Protection and Other Measures) Bill 2013 was presented to the House of Representatives by the Attorney-General on 29 May. On 18 June, three weeks or so later, it was referred by the Senate to the Senate Legal and Constitutional Affairs Legislation Committee. The committee was initially meant to report on 20 August, which would have been a respectable kind of reporting interval, but it was then of course indicated to the committee that the bill was to be considered in the Senate this week. As a result, it was necessary to bring the reporting date forward to 25 June. So on 18 June the bill was sent to the committee and on 25 June the committee was meant to report. Needless to say, what transpired in terms of the work of the Senate Legal and Constitutional Affairs Legislation Committee was something which could best be described as a travesty of its normal rigorous process of examination of legislation.</para>
<para>The committee contacted the sorts of organisations that it thought might be interested in providing evidence. Advertising in the usual fashion was not possible. The committee contacted a number of organisations, but of course the general public in that situation has almost no chance of contributing to the debate and to the consideration of such issues. As we know from previous inquiries—of course, Madam Acting Deputy President Crossin, I am preaching to the converted in your case as the chair of that committee—there are often large numbers of individuals in the community with a variety of backgrounds who can make very useful comments to Senate inquiries about what is going on with these matters. They could easily have added to the wealth of knowledge about this issue, but the opportunity was not provided to them.</para>
<para>Not surprisingly, having written to over 90 organisations and individuals and inviting submissions to be made within a ridiculously short period of time—48 hours at most—we received just six submissions. Those six submissions pretty well all made reference to the inability of organisations like them to be able to deal properly with the issues in this bill. I will quote from only one, that of the Australian Lawyers for Human Rights, who in their submission said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The fact that submissions are required in less than 40 hours destroys any notion of accountability and public scrutiny which is sought to be provided by public involvement in the committee process.</para></quote>
<para>They went on to say:</para>
<quote><para class="block">However because of the time period the Parliament has chosen to allocate for submissions, ALHR are unable to assess and respond on these matters. We would like the Committee to note our concern and opposition to such a short time being made for submissions.</para></quote>
<para>This is an organisation with a background in this area. It would have been useful for the committee and in turn the Senate to be able to receive evidence from it in the course of the inquiry, considering the raft of issues contained in this legislation. Here we have a key group saying to the Senate:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The fact that submissions are required in less than 40 hours destroys any notion of accountability and public scrutiny …</para></quote>
<para>Destroys any notion of accountability and public scrutiny!</para>
<para>Yet this is not the only example that the Senate has had to deal with, in the space of this week, of the proper processes of the Senate being trampled underfoot in the undue haste to rush through, in the dying days of the parliament, a whole raft of legislation which this chaotic and dysfunctional government happens to think should be pushed through while it still has the numbers. I particularly single out for that criticism the Australian Greens, who made such a song and dance of the issues of use of the guillotine and rushing legislation when they were on this side of the chamber facing the Howard government, and now have not only accepted these premises as the basis on which to pass legislation through this place but have also actually accelerated the rate at which these sorts of abuses of process are occurring. We are now passing legislation through the parliament with the use of guillotines at a rate three to four times the rate that was happening under the Howard government. That is absolutely disgraceful, and the Greens should be asking themselves what kind of accountability they are engineering in this parliament when they are prepared to cooperate with these sorts of travesties of due process.</para>
<para>Turning to the provisions of the legislation itself: again, in the extremely short period of time that the committee have had to examine these matters, it is difficult to identify whether these measures are, in their totality, appropriate or not. It appears, on the face of it, as if there is some basis for the myriad of provisions which the legislation contains. But, again, I certainly do not provide any warranty that the legislation will meet the requirements that have been set for it. Indeed, I have to say that I am concerned that some of these things have been given far too little weight for the gravity of what is required.</para>
<para>Senator Boyce mentioned the provision to exclude the use of wrist X-rays as an age assessment tool, and it was pointed out to the inquiry that the accuracy of wrist X-rays as an assessment tool with respect to age has been largely discredited, that variations in skeletal maturity based on environmental and ethnic factors led to wide variations in what a wrist X-ray would actually tell somebody about the age of a person, and that there were ethical concerns about non-medical uses of such a technology. For a variety of reasons, the suggestion was I think taken seriously that wrist X-rays could not be properly employed.</para>
<para>Similarly, the legislation picked up, in this case, on a recommendation of the Senate Legal and Constitutional Affairs Legislation Committee, when it examined an earlier bill, that there should be an express placing of the onus of proof on the prosecution for the proof of age of a person subject to criminal proceedings in relation to immigration matters in particular, and that the prosecution, therefore, bears the burden of establishing that a person was an adult at the time of a relevant offence. That, in fact, was the references committee's recommendation arising out of its inquiry into the detention of Indonesian minors in Australia.</para>
<para>However, the point remains that the reason for these provisions being considered at all is that the government is facing a veritable flood of people arriving in this country on boats who are overwhelming Australia's immigration system's ability to properly process them, and of course the more this is happening the more experience people smugglers are getting of what they are encountering with the process, and the more sophisticated their operations are becoming. They have discovered that if people declare that they are children when in fact they are not then their chances of escaping the consequences of the law are somewhat greater. So we are finding remarkably large numbers of people fronting our immigration system who are making that declaration when, on most assessments, one would to have to be seriously in doubt that these people are actually children—and in fact many of these people are declaring, after being acquitted of offences, or I understand that they are saying, that they are in fact not children at all.</para>
<para>Again, that is a consequence of a government in free fall—a consequence of a government not able to manage its business in an appropriate way—having to rush legislation through here to deal with a crisis which is very much of its own making. We have here a government quite unable to deal with these issues appropriately, and the proper processes of the Senate bear the brunt of that mismanagement. It is a sad day when we have to go through this kind of process. But, once again, we have no choice in this matter because of the conspiracy of the Greens in this exercise.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>7Y6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! The time allotted for the remaining stages of the bill has expired. The question is that the Crimes Legislation Amendment (Law Enforcement Integrity, Vulnerable Witness Protection and Other Measures) Bill 2013 be now read a second time.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a second time.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Third Reading</title>
            <page.no>4376</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>20:20</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>7Y6</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The question now is that the remaining stages of the bill be agreed to and the bill be now passed.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a third time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Fair Work Amendment Bill 2013</title>
          <page.no>4376</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" style="" background="" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint">
            <a type="Bill" href="r5028">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Fair Work Amendment Bill 2013</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>4376</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>20:21</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ABETZ</name>
    <name.id>N26</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Senate is debating the latest instalment of the 400 pages of amendments to Labor's so-called perfect Fair Work laws. Remember the laws that were so good they were sacrosanct? The right balance had been achieved! No change was needed! Well, here we are, 400 pages of amendments later, in circumstances where Labor have previously said that there should be no change, especially before an election. Indeed, whilst Labor themselves were in government, way back when they actually had principled ministers and a principled government, right back when they used to know what they believed in, they were concerned to ensure that a genuinely right balance was achieved in workplace relations law, when they were about reform, and when they were about the national interest. They had a Minister for Industrial Relations, one Ralph Willis, who in 1987 said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The government has decided not to go ahead with the industrial relations bill this session. The legislation will not be debated and will be left to lie on the table. There is already a large measure of agreement between employer groups, the union movement and the government on the legislation, but some significant differences remain. This government has constantly pursued a process of consultation rather than confrontation. Because of the remaining differences of view over the legislation, the government will have discussions …</para></quote>
<para>That was the principled stand way back in 1987. Isn't it a pity that the current Minister for Workplace Relations, the man who thinks the job of Minister for Workplace Relations is simply that of an upmarket trade union boss, cannot show us the same sort of integrity, the same sort of commitment to the national interest. That was Mr Willis all those years ago. It is interesting when you consider that, only last year, the current Minister for Workplace Relations had this to say in relation to some amendments proposed by the coalition:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The reason we are opposing the amendments is that we had a policy on workers' entitlements before the last election, and we are implementing them. We do not believe that we should adhere to opposition amendments which were not flagged at the last election and are not part, as far as we can tell, of any appreciable opposition policy. It is policy on the run, which we have learnt about today.</para></quote>
<para>Well hello, let us revisit where we are today. Where did these amendments come from? Was it part of Labor's policy at the last election? No. Was it part of Labor's Fair Work Review Panel recommendations? No. Where did they come from? Nobody will tell us—other than 'it is government policy'. Why is it government policy? Because certain trade union bosses have dictated it must be so. What we have here tonight is the Labor Party breaking their own rules that they have applied to the opposition and the principles that they used to apply when they were in government.</para>
<para>It is a matter of regret that, because of the Labor government's ruthless and arrogant guillotining of legislation, we will not actually have a committee stage to this bill. And how is it that the Labor Party, without a majority in this place, is able to guillotine this bill?</para>
<para class="italic">Senator Lundy interjecting—</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ABETZ</name>
    <name.id>N26</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Lundy asks how this might be so. Of course, it is because the Australian Greens are complicit. The Australian Greens, thus far in this parliament, have guillotined over 200 bills. When we rise tomorrow, the Greens will have voted and facilitated the guillotining of 216 bills. When the coalition, the Liberal and National parties, had control of the Senate we were accused of guillotining far too many bills through the Senate. Do you know how many bills we guillotined? Was it 200, 100, 50? It was 32 bills—and the Greens were apoplectic about it; it was 'an affront to democracy'. And here they are tonight, yet again complicit with the Australian Labor Party, guillotining 216 bills. Let there be no mistake, a Greens-ALP alliance in this place will abuse any majority given to it—and we do not only have exhibit A or B, we have 216 such exhibits. The Liberal and National parties are clearly the better custodians of the important role of the Senate in relation to the consideration and review of legislation.</para>
<para>Returning to the bill, I do ask Labor to explain the reason for, in this bill, expanding the right of entry for union bosses, allowing them to invade lunch rooms and go on joyrides. It has not been explained to us at any stage. It has been unable to be explained by the officials, the bureaucrats, the departmental officers who do their very best to defend the indefensible. Today Australia woke up with a new Prime Minister—and nothing has changed with this reincarnation of Kevin Rudd. With hands outstretched he says, 'I'm going to reach out to business. I'm going to be business's friend. We can work with business.' Well, he was given an opportunity this morning in the House of Representatives on 457 visas and he squibbed it. With all his talk about doing the right thing for business, he did completely the opposite on the floor of the parliament. Tonight Mr Rudd has the opportunity to ring his colleagues in the Senate and say, 'I actually for once meant what I said.' We know that Julia Gillard cannot rely on his word, and we now know that we cannot rely on his word either.</para>
<para>But this is what Mr Rudd said about right of entry when he was Leader of the Opposition in 2007:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Obviously a number of unions may be disappointed with elements of what we put forward, in particular in relation to right of entry provisions.</para></quote>
<para>On another occasion, he said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">We believe it is important that we have a clear cut set of rules around that which does not provide unnecessary burdens for employers. We've got to make sure that when it comes to what's referred to as the union right of entry that that is prescribed to defined areas and properly authorised, and on the detail of all that, we're confident that we are going to get that balance right as well.</para></quote>
<para>And he promised that there would be no change to the right of entry laws, as did Ms Gillard. In typical style it is already another broken promise, so two broken promises on his first day of being Prime Minister.</para>
<para>I turn to the right of entry provisions in detail. Labor moved amendments to their own bill in the other place to remove these provisions. Mr Shorten told my office that that is exactly what they were going to do. Minutes before he was going to move those amendments, do you know what he did? He told us he was not going to. You know what? I know how Julia Gillard feels, promising one thing and then doing the exact opposite moments later. He is a man with whom you cannot talk and make a deal or talk about the best way of running the workplace relations system in this country.</para>
<para>So ashamed are the Labor Party of this bill that they have ensured that it does not have a regulatory impact statement attached to it. This bill will affect every single employer and employee Australia. In those circumstances, would not a regulatory impact statement be appropriate? No, not when you are trying to rush things through in the death throes of a parliament and possibly a government and trying to ensure that everything is booby trapped on the way out. But we were told, were we not, by Ms Gillard and Mr Rudd themselves when they introduced the Fair Work Act:</para>
<quote><para class="block">I consulted for hour after hour with business leaders, with union leaders, with small business leaders to get the balance right.</para></quote>
<para>And then she said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">We built a modern and fair system that has got the balance right.</para></quote>
<para>If the balance was right, why is it that we now need these other changes to increase the right of entry entitlements of trade union bosses, which will allow them to invade the lunch room of every workplace in Australia in circumstances where only 13 per cent of the workforce are actually members of the trade union movement in the private sector. Why would you do something like that unless you were beholden to them lock, stock and barrel and especially financially? Clearly, that can be the only motivation because it did not come up out of the Fair Work Act review panel recommendations. It came up nowhere other than through the minister. The minister was so concerned, he himself moved amendments to have all that excised from the bill and then, at the last moment, said, 'I'm going to squib on the deal.'</para>
<para>I have been told by many a person in the business community that they had agreed to the Fair Work Act and its provisions on the basis of undertakings that they had made a deal and the balance was right. But then as soon as it was put through we have had amendment after amendment, 400 pages worth, overwhelmingly favouring the trade union bosses. Whilst we are on trade union bosses, isn't it interesting that Mr Rudd was willing to have Mr Joe McDonald expelled from the ALP? He is back in the ALP these days. I wonder whether Mr Rudd made some deal not to have him expelled again. What is the bet Mr Rudd, like on other issues, sold his soul to regain the Labor leadership, not on the basis of any policy change but because it is all about what he, the Prime Minister, wants, not for the nation but for himself.</para>
<para>Now here we are in the Senate, with the country Independents having sold out to their electorates and leaving this parliament in disgrace and shame. What I say to the workers of this country is: whenever a trade union boss invades your lunch room, consider it as the Windsor invasion because it was he that allowed this outrageous provision to remain in the legislation. He will wear that with shame as he does the past three years. He knows that his electorate never wanted a Labor government. His own personal bitterness in relation to the National Party ensured that this dysfunctional government was sworn in and then kept on life support for the past three years.</para>
<para>I turn to some of the family friendly provisions in the legislation to simply say they are good and they have the coalition's support. In relation to bullying, let me indicate that bullying is without doubt a scourge. It should be, as far as possible, removed from Australia. It is unacceptable behaviour. Having said that, we are debating workplace relations. Bullying should be removed from Australian workplaces. It is a scourge. The Productivity Commission has told us the huge economic cost. I would imagine that nearly everybody, if not all of us, in this place would say, sure there is a huge economic cost. But what also perturbs us is the social cost and the personal cost; they should be dealt with as well. We are all agreed that bullying does need to be addressed.</para>
<para>Why is it that when we put forward an amendment that suggests it might be an idea to have union bosses included, no, the Labor Party and the Greens, and the country Independents in the other place, could not have that? Union bosses do not engage in bullying! Employers might and workers might engage in bullying of each other, but they have never heard of bullying by union bosses—that has never happened! You know those horses that got bashed up at the Grocon site at the Myer Emporium?—that never happened!</para>
<para>When members of the CFMEU—actual paid-up members—are reduced to putting advertisements into newspapers pleading with their CFMEU bosses to stop harassing them and threatening them and to allow them to get to and from their place of work without intimidation, you know something is wrong. When that happens you know bullying is taking place. But we cannot have bullying in relation to union bosses included in this legislation! And that says it all about this government. They say bullying is something only employers do. Union bosses would never do it, would they? So the government ensure that union bosses are protected from this legislation.</para>
<para>Why is it that Mr Shorten and this government cannot realise that their task of being the Australian government goes beyond simply being a jumped-up trade union boss? Government ministers are ministers of the Crown. They have a duty to the national interest. They have to ensure that they look after all Australians and protect Australians who suffer bullying from trade union bosses.</para>
<para>The bullying regime was dreamt up quickly—so quickly that when we asked about it at Senate estimates just a little while ago the manager told us that they had not even advertised for the position to create this new jurisdiction. It was all supposed to start on 1 July—that would be in three days time—and the parliament has not even passed the legislation. So, to the government's credit, they accepted our recommendation that the start-up date should be delayed by six months.</para>
<para>But we also said that there should be a filter in this system—a filter that would ensure that somebody could not get all steamed up about being bullied in the morning and then go down to the Fair Work Commission and file proceedings at lunch time. And I got support for that proposition from the most unlikely quarters. People who are not the natural allies of the coalition said, 'It makes sense.' Do you think the government could see the sense? No. Dogmatic as always, they ensured that that amendment did not see the light of day.</para>
<para>I will move the second reading amendment standing in my name and also indicate that there are two lots of amendments to excise completely from the bill the right of entry and to ramp up the bullying provisions to ensure that they are practical. I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">At the end of the motion, add “but the Senate notes that the Government:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) circulated amendments in the House of Representatives to excise Schedule 3 of this bill which would have removed the right of entry provisions, but decided at short notice to not proceed with these amendments; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) has not explained why it decided to not proceed with these amendments”.</para></quote>
<para>The reason I cannot speak to those amendments in detail and the reason we cannot probe these issues in the committee stage is because of the Green-Labor alliance guillotine. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>20:41</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator XENOPHON</name>
    <name.id>8IV</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I wish to make some brief contributions in relation to this important bill, the Fair Work Amendment Bill 2013. It is important because it deals with a number of issues. Some are good—particularly the family friendly provisions—but others may be job killers, and that worries me.</para>
<para>I will confine my remarks to a couple of areas, and I think it is worth reflecting on the contribution made by Professor Andrew Stewart, who is someone I have a great regard for. He is one of the academics who helped draft and develop the Fair Work Act. Two weeks ago today he was reported in <inline font-style="italic">T</inline><inline font-style="italic">he</inline><inline font-style="italic"> Australian</inline> as stating that the nation's workplace tribunal—the Fair Work Commission—risks being swamped by the new bullying regime, and that the ALP should have backed elements of the coalition's proposed changes.</para>
<para>Those people who know Professor Andrew Stewart, or know of him, would know that he is a well-known commentator on these issues. He worked with the government to help draft not these changes but the Fair Work Act, generally. In other words, he was among some of the leading thinkers in this field that were involved in scrapping Work Choices. He cannot be accused of being a friend of the coalition in relation to these matters. But I think it is fair to say that he is someone who has worked cooperatively and well with former Deputy Prime Minister and former Prime Minister Gillard when she had the carriage of these matters.</para>
<para>He has accused the government of using a sledgehammer to crack a nut in terms of unions having a greater ability to recruit non-unionists in workplaces. He has said that the evidence given by the commission's general manager, Bernadette O'Neill, to a Senate estimates hearing recently, was that the commission expected to receive 3,500 bullying complaints a year—almost 10 per cent of the total annual matters currently dealt with by the tribunal. He was concerned that the commission would be swamped by the work load. He said to Ewin Hannan, the industrial editor of <inline font-style="italic">The</inline><inline font-style="italic">Australian</inline>:</para>
<quote><para class="block">I think there is a real risk that will happen.</para></quote>
<para>He went on to say:</para>
<quote><para class="block">If you look at the numbers the commission has said it is planning on, now that's a huge number, as it is. It's very, very difficult to know what people will do.</para></quote>
<para>He is quoted as saying:</para>
<quote><para class="block">I certainly think it would have been more sensible to build in some form of filtering mechanism to deal with bullying complaints.</para></quote>
<para>He also made the point in relation to the right-of-entry proposal, which will allow unions to meet employees in their lunchrooms during breaks, that that has been sought by unions but opposed by the coalition and business groups. Professor Stewart thought the amendment was unnecessary, as the commission already had the power to deal with disputes about what meetings were held in workplaces.</para>
<para>The article in <inline font-style="italic">T</inline><inline font-style="italic">he</inline><inline font-style="italic">Australian</inline> went on:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Professor Stewart said the amendment was unnecessary as the commission already had the power to deal with disputes about where meetings were held in workplaces. "It's a sledgehammer to crack a nut," he said. "The number of workplaces where there is a dispute about union rights of entry are incredibly small and the commission has got the power to deal with those."</para></quote>
<para>The article continues to quote Professor Stewart:</para>
<quote><para class="block">"There are going to be a lot of workplaces where it is not obvious where the lunchroom is. I think, in the end, rather than coming up with a sensible compromise, we have ended up, through political posturing and unpredictable shifts in views from the independents, with something less than optimal."</para></quote>
<para>I will just say that I was not one of the Independents who Professor Stewart was referring to.</para>
<para>This is bad news for our workplaces. I want to make this clear: I am not anti-union. When I was a member of the South Australian Legislative Council, I introduced legislation ahead of the government on right of entry provisions for union officials with respect to occupational health and safety, because I am passionate about helping to ensure that when people go to work they should be able to go home to their families, their loved ones, safely. I have dealt with many, many people who have lost loved ones as a result of horrific industrial accidents.</para>
<para>I pay credit to Andrea Madeley, a courageous woman who lost her 18-year-old boy Danny a number of years ago in a horrific industrial accident. Andrea Madeley has established VOID, the Voice of Industrial Death, which has been a great advocacy service for reform and a great advocacy and support service for all those who have lost loved ones through industrial accidents. I believe that there are circumstances in which right of entry for unions, where the regulatory framework has broken down—where there are not enough inspectors—can be a safety valve, in a sense, for unions to have. That is something that I maintain is appropriate.</para>
<para>But I also think that we need to look at this legislation and heed the warnings of Professor Andrew Stewart, a man who I believe is very reasonable and sensible in his approach and who by any measure cannot be considered a friend of the coalition on these matters.</para>
<para>I also want to reflect on the issue of penalty rates. Alone in this place, because the coalition does not share my views, I believe that something needs to be done about the small business sector—those genuinely small businesses with 20 full-time equivalent employees or less. They have been hammered by penalty rates. The changes in penalty rates have led to the loss of thousands of jobs around the country. I say that as a result of a comprehensive survey undertaken by Restaurant and Catering Australia from over a year ago that indicates that equivalent to 3,000 full-time jobs have already been lost in the restaurant and catering sector. I speak to small retailers day in and day out who tell me about how hard it is to survive with weekend penalty rates and they have employees, particularly university students, who are prepared to work for a reasonable rate—we are not talking about below the award; we are even allowing for a casual loading—on weekends. But they have cut back those hours or shut down entirely on Sunday because the penalty rates are simply too punitive. That is something that we need to consider.</para>
<para>My concern is that this bill will make it even less flexible and that this bill will be a job killer in some sectors. It is worth reflecting on what was said in a <inline font-style="italic">Sydney Morning Herald </inline>editorial on 11 February of this year. And I do not think that anyone can accuse the <inline font-style="italic">Sydney Morning Herald </inline>of pursuing through its editorials a right-wing industrial relations agenda. But it said this about the whole issue of penalty rates:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Economic growth without a significant population increase requires a flexible workforce to be paid fair and affordable wages. When laws prevent this and impose outdated standards to the detriment of job creation and higher incomes for all, it is time for modernisation.</para></quote>
<para>It is also worth reflecting on what Peter Strong, the head of the Council of Small Business of Australia, said. Peter Strong, for anyone who does not know him, has been a fearless advocate for small business in this country. He has worked well with both the government and the opposition. He had a very good relationship with the Gillard government and with the former Prime Minister in working for small businesses. No-one can accuse Peter Strong of being some form of right-wing ideologue. But Peter Strong made this point in a committee appearance on the inquiry into the bill that I put up on penalty rates:</para>
<quote><para class="block">In those small workplaces, as you know, if you sack someone because of penalty rates on a Sunday then you have to look that person in the eye and say, 'I'm sorry; you have to go.' It hurts you. It hurts them more, because that is money gone, but it hurts a small business owner because this is someone who they have been working with, who they potentially value, who lives nearby and who is part of their community.</para></quote>
<para>We need to look at this in a sensible way. This is killing small businesses. It is denying many Australians, particularly young Australians, job opportunities on weekend. I thought that the coalition was the party for small businesses. But you have abandoned small businesses by remaining silent on something that has hurt so many small businesses in this country.</para>
<para>I will not be accused, however, of being anti-union or anti-worker. I work with a number of unions on a whole range of issues. I have a very good and constructive relationship with Tony Sheldon, the head of the TWU, and have worked with him on the issue of the Qantas jobs that could potentially be lost because of the stupid, asinine and baffling management decisions made by Qantas. I work with the Licensed Aircraft Engineers Association and Steve Purvinas, the national secretary of that union, on the issue of jobs being moved offshore. I work with the CFMEU with Michael O'Connor, another union leader who I have great regard for, on the issue of dumping and Australian jobs being lost because of unfair trade practices and the importance of making sure that we can compete fairly in the marketplace. I will not be accused of being anti-union or anti-worker.</para>
<para>When young people come up to me and say that they lost their shift on Sunday that they were relying on to get through uni because the small business could not afford to stay open on the weekend, that shows that something is seriously wrong. We need to heed what the <inline font-style="italic">Sydney Morning Herald </inline>said in relation to that.</para>
<para>I would like to ask these questions of the government. The government is proposing to make workplaces less flexible. To me, a template of good industrial relations policy was that during the Hawke-Keating era. I think that they did a lot of good things. They were very good governments. The Hawke and Keating governments did a lot of good things for the economy. They drove productivity; they drove equity and fairness in the workplace. What we saw was a robust economy to a large degree and for most of the time that they were there. They put some reforms in place that put the Australian economy in good stead.</para>
<para>I am worried that what we see now is a less flexible workplace than in the Hawke-Keating era. I worry that we are denying jobs to many young Australians in particular. I am worried that the unemployment rate, while nominally at 5.5 per cent, does not in any way reflect the true unemployment rate in this nation, because we know that the Australian Bureau of Statistics measure of unemployment—which unfortunately is an internationally adopted measure—is a crock. Why? It is because you are considered to be employed as long as you are working one hour or more per week. So the level of underemployment is massive; the number of people who might have one or two or three hours or so per week is significant. The real level of unemployment is 12 to 15 per cent, and I fear it will go much higher.</para>
<para>So, this is not about exploitation; it is just about fairness, and giving those small businesses that want to do the right thing by the community a real opportunity. I want to ask the government about the current provisions of the Fair Work Act. The objects of the act include, under section 3(g), acknowledging the special circumstances of small and medium-sized businesses. However, this bill that we see before us, which has gone through a flawed process and has been criticised by the friends of the Fair Work Act, such as Professor Andrew Stewart, actually says that:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The FWC, in ensuring that modern awards provide fair and relevant minimum conditions, must take into account the need to provide additional remuneration for overtime; unsocial, irregular and unpredictable hours; work on weekends of public holidays; and shift work.</para></quote>
<para>What about those students for whom, because of their study commitments, Sunday—the weekend—is the best time? What about those people who, because of their family arrangements, prefer to work after hours in those circumstances? And we are talking about people working well under 38 hours a week for that casual work.</para>
<para>I want to know from the government, on notice—because of this process whereby the debate will be guillotined—how section 3(g) of the act, in relation to the particular needs of small and medium businesses, will be considered in the context of these proposed amendments. Will they nullify 3(g)? How will it be dealt with? How will it be considered in a way that is fair and equitable? Perhaps I can just indicate, because there are a number of other speakers, that I have reservations about a number of the amendments in this bill. I think the process has been flawed. I want to acknowledge the important work the union movement does for the welfare of workers in this nation, and the work of the unionists I have a bit to do with: Michael O'Connor from the CFMEU, Tony Sheldon from the TWU and Steve Purvinas from the Licenced Aircraft Engineers Association. And I make it clear that none of them agree with me on the penalty rates provision, but I do not think my penalty rates proposals would in any way impact on their sectors, by and large, because it is about small business in just the hospitality sector and the retail sector, the two most vulnerable sectors in respect of penalty rates.</para>
<para>I want to make the point that unions play a vital part in our economy. I agree with people such as Bill Kelty that we do need to look at another accord. We do need to look at getting businesses, large and small—small business this time as well—to sit down with unions and government and work out how we can make our nation more productive—the sort of thing Martin Ferguson, who has made a valuable contribution in this place and in the union movement, has talked about: if you want to get a bigger share of the pie you need a bigger pie. We are going to shrink the pie with this piece of legislation unless it is amended in some meaningful way.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>20:56</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CASH</name>
    <name.id>I0M</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I too rise to speak on the Fair Work Amendment Bill 2013. When Mr Rudd was re-installed as the Prime Minister of Australia last night, the speech he gave after assuming the leadership of the Labor Party indicated that he wanted to take a certain direction in relation to where the Australian Labor Party would now go. One of the statements he made to the Australian public was that he wanted his government to work with the business community. In effect, he was acknowledging that the former Gillard government had failed to work with the business community in relation to a number of pieces of legislation that had been passed. On the basis of that statement, the Leader of the Opposition in the Senate, Senator Eric Abetz, took the opportunity, in good faith, to write to the now Prime Minister of Australia setting out our concerns in relation to the bill that is now before the Senate. Senator Abetz basically said to the now Prime Minister, Mr Rudd, 'We take in good faith the statement that you have made'—and he made a number of statements, as I said—'in which you indicated that you wanted your government to work with the business community.' And in the letter that Senator Abetz sent to the now Prime Minister he set out a number of very serious concerns that not only the coalition has with the piece of legislation that we are currently debating but that business and industry—those people, those employers, who will be directly impacted by this legislation—have themselves set out in the submissions they have provided on this piece of legislation.</para>
<para>If you do not like what the coalition says in relation to this bill because you believe that perhaps the coalition and Labor have an ideological difference in relation to this type of legislation, you only have to listen to the concerns that were just put by Independent Senator Xenophon. Senator Xenophon gets on very well with the union movement and he himself introduced legislation, when he was a member of the South Australian Legislative Council, that dealt with right-of-entry laws. As he stated, he has very serious concerns in relation to the occupational health and safety of work sites. But even Senator Xenophon, in reading the legislation and in speaking with those who are directly impacted by this legislation, has set out some exceptionally serious concerns that even he says the government should heed before we pass this legislation. Indeed, in his letter to the now Prime Minister of this country, Senator Abetz said that this bill has received significant criticism from both businesses and unions. So it is not just business; even the unions have come out and criticised the legislation that the Senate is tonight passing under a guillotine. Senator Abetz further states: 'It would be advantageous if this bill were deferred until after the next election.' He then says: 'I note that many provisions of this bill were not foreshadowed before the last election and nor were they the product of the recent Fair Work review.'</para>
<para>It is a question of whether Mr Rudd really does want to differentiate himself in relation to the direction the former Gillard government was taking. By executing Ms Gillard last night and replacing her with former Prime Minister Rudd, the Australian Labor Party acknowledged that the direction they were taking under former Prime Minister Gillard was the wrong direction. Otherwise, why would the Australian Labor Party have executed former Prime Minister Gillard?</para>
<para>This bill is not a response to the government's own Fair Work review, and if it is not a response to the government's own Fair Work review, you have to ask yourself why the former Gillard government would bring such a piece of legislation before the parliament. There can only be one reason for it. There is one reason and one reason only that this bill has been brought to the parliament: it is that the militant union movement, as we all know, controls the Australian Labor Party and the militant union movement has demanded from former Prime Minister Gillard certain things they wanted passed before the 2013 election. Because the former Gillard government was controlled by the militant union movement the Senate is tonight debating a piece of legislation that merely responds to the demands of the unions.</para>
<para>This is not legislation that is in the national interest. It is not legislation that is going to further business and industry in this country. I remind those on the other side that governments do not employ people. We in this place do not employ one person in Australia. That is the role of business and industry in Australia, whether it be a big, medium or small business. The role of business in Australia is to give Australians jobs. The role of government should be to provide a policy environment that is conducive to businesses employing people. If government is not providing a policy environment that is conducive to businesses and industry employing people, only one thing happens. It is very simple: business and industry close down. When business and industry close down Australians lose jobs. That is a lose-lose situation for everybody.</para>
<para>Unfortunately, that is what we are going to see if this legislation passes. It will just make it that little bit harder for the employers in this country to do business. As so many employers have done under the former Gillard government and the former Rudd government, and quite possibly, now, under the current Rudd government, they will quite literally just close their doors. Again, that is a lose-lose situation for businesses and for workers, because if you do not have businesses and you do not have employers, workers do not have jobs.</para>
<para>The coalition is deeply disappointed that in bringing this bill before the Senate the government has effectively put aside the bulk of the remaining Fair Work review recommendations. Australians need to remember that it was this government that commissioned a review of the Fair Work laws. It was this government that had a body review the Fair Work Act and come up with a number of recommendations. Why did the government bother to have a review of the Fair Work Act and the Fair Work laws if the legislation we are debating tonight in the Senate puts aside those recommendations and says: 'We are not interested in what our specialist review panel said. All we are interested in doing is listening to the demands of the union movement and producing a piece of legislation that does nothing more and nothing less than respond to the demands of the union movement'? That is what this legislation does. Labor has used the so-called second tranche to grant additional union rights, without any reason as to why, and to respond to a separate report on workplace bullying.</para>
<para>What also concerns the coalition in relation to the rushed passage of this legislation tonight is that, yet again, as with so many of the pieces of the legislation the Senate has been forced to pass this week under a guillotine, we are tonight faced with passing yet another piece of legislation in relation to which the government has failed to conduct a regulatory impact statement. The government fails to abide by recommendations of their own Office of Best Practice Regulation. The role of the Office of Best Practice Regulation is to look at legislation and consider whether or not that particular piece of legislation is going to have an impact on business, industry or stakeholders. If the Office of Best Practice Regulation comes to the assessment that there will be an impact, it recommends to the government that it should undertake a regulatory impact statement. That would seem pretty obvious, because how do you debate a piece of legislation that is going to have an impact on business, industry or stakeholders without actually understanding what that impact is?</para>
<para>Yet again, the government comes to this place and asks the Senate to debate a piece of legislation on which, again, like so many pieces of legislation that we have been forced to push through this place this week, the government has failed to comply with the recommendations of its own Office of Best Practice Regulation and conduct a regulatory impact statement. Not only that, when departmental officers in the Senate committee hearings on this bill were asked, quite genuinely, 'Why was an exemption granted in relation to this bill? Why was the government was not required to provide or undertake a regulatory impact statement?' the departmental officers were unable to give the Senate committee an answer. That is because there was no answer.</para>
<para>It was a little like the exemption that was given in relation to the 457 bill that we are going to slam through this place tomorrow—again, under guillotine. Minister O'Connor looked at the legislation and did not like the fact that the Office of Best Practice Regulation had said, 'You are required to conduct a regulatory impact statement, because this legislation will have a severe impact on stakeholders.' Minister O'Connor did not like that, because he knew that there would be an impact, but he did not want the Australian public to know the extent of the impact. So what did Minister O'Connor do? He picked up the phone to the Prime Minister, and he said to the Prime Minister, 'I need an exemption from the requirement to provide a regulatory impact statement.' The Prime Minister asked, 'Why?' Minister O'Connor said, 'Exceptional circumstances,' and—lo and behold!—an exemption was granted. At a Senate committee hearing last week we asked the department what the exceptional circumstances were that would entail the Prime Minister granting an exemption from the Office of Best Practice Regulation's requirement that a regulatory impact statement be conducted. Again, the departmental officials looked at us and said, 'We have no answer to that.'</para>
<para>Given that this bill will affect every employer and every employee in Australia, the coalition believes that coming to this place tonight and debating this legislation would have benefited from a regulatory impact statement having been conducted so that not only the parliament could understand the impact of this legislation but also the community too, in considering these changes to the Fair Work Act, would be able to decide whether or not they were good or bad changes.</para>
<para>When I say that this legislation is being rushed through the parliament to respond to the demand of the union movement, you need to look at what Mr Rudd said about right of entry and the union movement way back in 2007. Way back when Mr Rudd was campaigning on the Kevin07 slogan, what did he say in relation to right of entry and the union movement in this country? This is what the now Prime Minister of Australia said in relation to the right-of-entry provisions. He said: 'We'll make sure that current right-of-entry provisions stay. We understand that entering on the premises of an employer needs to happen in an orderly way. We will keep the right-of-entry provisions. We will allow unions to get about their proper work but without disruption to businesses.' That was Mr Rudd at a press conference on 28 August 2007.</para>
<para>Then you look at what the former Prime Minister, and the now current Prime Minister, said in relation to union thugs. What did Mr Rudd say in relation to Mr Joe McDonald from the CFMEU back in my home state of Western Australia? Mr Rudd said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The laws that we have in Australia concerning union right of entry—</para></quote>
<para>because, for those who do not know, Mr McDonald is a serial offender in relation to breaching union right-of-entry laws—</para>
<quote><para class="block">if we're elected to form the next government, it would be identical to those which currently exist under this Government.</para></quote>
<para>Remember, that was in 2007. It was the Howard government that was in power at that particular point in time. Mr Rudd went on to say:</para>
<para>I have no time for any thuggery from any individual and that includes this individual, hence my recommendation to the national executive that he be expelled from the party forthwith following his remarks yesterday</para>
<quote><para class="block">I have no time for any thuggery from any individual and that includes this individual—</para></quote>
<para>and by 'this individual' he was referring to the CFMEU's Joe McDonald—</para>
<quote><para class="block">hence my recommendation to the national executive that he—</para></quote>
<para>Mr McDonald—</para>
<quote><para class="block">be expelled from the party forthwith …</para></quote>
<para>Again, the coalition says to Mr Rudd, as Senator Abetz said in his letter last night, if you really stand by the statements you made on assuming the role of Prime Minister of this country last night that you want to change direction and that—to quote from Senator Abetz's letter—'you indicated that you wanted your government to work with the business community,' why, then, is the now Prime Minister of Australia allowing this bill to be slammed through the Senate tonight?</para>
<para>What this bill does is completely contradictory to what Mr Rudd said in the lead up to the 2007 election in relation to the right-of-entry provisions. The right-of-entry provisions under this particular piece of legislation are being fundamentally changed and are well and truly swinging the balance completely in favour of the union movement. We have two concerns in relation to the right-of-entry provisions. One is that the right-of-entry provisions will relate to the default location. If the employer and union official cannot agree, the default location becomes the lunch room. Our other concern relates to the employer being liable for travel costs for union officials exercising a right-of-entry permit in a remote location.</para>
<para>In relation to those two provisions of this particular bill, there is one thing that is glaringly obvious, and that is that neither of those two provisions were recommended by the Fair Work Act review panel. The Fair Work Act review panel was commissioned by the Labor government to conduct a review of the fair work laws in Australia. It made certain recommendations, but none of those recommendations form part of the legislation that will be slammed through the Senate tonight under guillotine. In particular the recommendations in relation to right of entry, the recommendations that the default location be the lunchroom and that the employer be liable for the costs of a union official exercising a right of entry permit were not recommended by Labor's own Fair Work review panel.</para>
<para>Despite what Mr Rudd said in 2007 and despite what former Prime Minister Gillard said in relation to right of entry laws, because former Prime Minister Gillard is also on the record as saying that she would not change the right of entry laws, that is exactly what we are going to be doing tonight if this legislation passes the Senate. On the basis that the provisions in relation to right of entry were not part of the government's own recommendations from its own Fair Work review panel, the only conclusion that we can come to is that, once again, like so many pieces of legislation that have been slammed through the Senate tonight, they are not in the national interest, they are not in the interest of employers and employees, they are only in the interest of the militant union movement who control the Australian Labor Party.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>21:16</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I am very pleased to support the Fair Work Amendment Bill 2013 on the floor of the Senate. I think I would be one of the senators in this place who have used right of entry over nearly 27 years as a union official. I know how employers have sought to restrict union officials providing workers with advice, providing workers with protection and trying to ensure that workers get a fair go on the job.</para>
<para>Let me, firstly, speak about Senator Abetz, because Senator Abetz was quoted by Senator Cash. Senator Abetz was the main advocate for the Howard government in this place to promote Work Choices. Senator Abetz chaired the committee that handed tens of millions, maybe hundreds of millions of dollars to a coalition government to tell workers through the media that Work Choices would be good for them and that allowing the employer more flexibility would create more jobs. For Senator Abetz to come in here with any credibility on workplace relations issues is an impossible task, because Senator Abetz has no credibility on workplace relations issues, through being the architect of Work Choices in the Senate and the defender and promoter of Work Choices in the Senate. I will come back to Work Choices.</para>
<para>Secondly, we have Senator Xenophon. Senator Xenophon and I would agree on many issues and we would disagree on many issues as well. I have had discussions with Senator Xenophon on what seems to me to be his phobia of penalty rates and this discredited argument that you will simply create more jobs by denying workers on low rates of pay the capacity to get a penalty rate. When I was a low-paid tradesman, when I first came to Australia, it was penalty rates that kept food on my family's table, it was penalty rates that let me save up to buy a car and it was penalty rates that allowed me to take my kids on a holiday.</para>
<para>I just do not think it is right for people who have had a privileged and wealthy upbringing to lecture anybody in here about getting rid of penalty rates, because penalty rates are so important for so many people. If employers cannot arrange their businesses flexibly enough, with all the flexibility they now have, without having to rip away at workers rights and conditions, including penalty rates, then they should go and do something else, because obviously they are incompetent, ineffective employers. That is the bottom line.</para>
<para>After 27 years as a trade union official I just get a bit sick of the rhetoric you hear, the demonisation you hear from the coalition on the role of the trade union movement in this country. I would put my record as someone promoting productive performance in the workplace, someone promoting best practice in the workplace, someone promoting good industrial relations in the workplace against any coalition senator in this place. I did it for a living. I was looking after workers, having to argue with workers that they had to improve productivity, having to argue with workers that some of the work practices in place had to be changed.</para>
<para>What is never mentioned in here is that the great revolution on productivity under the Hawke-Keating governments was a revolution that was facilitated by the trade union movement. Without the trade union movement going out and arguing for improved work practices on the job, for increased skills on the job, then this productivity revolution that you hear so much about would never have taken place. It was the trade union movement that also said, 'If you want us to be flexible then you have to look at the whole productive performance of the organisation.' It was the trade union movement that ran the best practice campaign to ensure that it was not just an exercise of cost-cutting, of ripping away at workers' penalty rates, their shift allowances and other allowances that they had gained over the years. It was the trade union movement who said that you actually have to look at a whole range of issues. Those issues include the quality of management on the job. We argued as the trade union movement that best practice, that productive performance, required a range of issues to be dealt with. That was about getting decent management systems in place, modern management systems.</para>
<para>When I first became a union official in the early eighties there were not many companies that had a business plan in place. The first business plans started to come into the manufacturing industry when the Hawke government started paying to have business plans put together in companies around this country. That is how great the management was in this country. There were no business plans in the early eighties, and we wondered why we could not have an international vision, we wondered how we could not be productive and we wondered why we could not compete internationally—because the management systems were absolutely ridiculously poor. Towards the end of the Keating government there was an inquiry undertaken by David Karpin, a senior executive of Rio Tinto at the time. This was not some union stooge coming in and saying that you have to do certain things. What David Karpin said was that the management systems in this country were abysmal and that they did not meet international standards that were required for industry to compete effectively in a global economy. He set out a range of recommendations to improve the productive performance of management in this country. That was one issue: getting management systems in place that actually facilitate improving productivity.</para>
<para>The other areas are the areas that you hear lots of discussion about: research and development. The manufacturing industry over the years has become a huge base for research, development and innovation in this country. That is why, if we rip away at the manufacturing industry, the capacity for this country to have a broad based economy and to have decent jobs for working people will be massively diminished, because we cannot simply be a quarry, we cannot simply be a farm and we cannot simply be a tourist destination; we have to have a broad based, high-skill economy for the future of this country.</para>
<para>A few years ago, when you spoke to a manager—not only in the manufacturing sector but around the country—about how you could improve logistics, they did not know what the word 'logistics' was, until it started to be written on the back of trucks. The logistics of getting a product from one spot to another, making sure it moved effectively and efficiently from the suppliers to the factory and out of the factory to the consumer was not a concept that was there. But we, under the Hawke and Howard governments, and I as a union official in that period, looked at all these issues. I was on the government's best practice committee, both as the Assistant National Secretary of the Manufacturing Workers Union and the National Secretary of Manufacturing Workers Union. We looked at companies all over the world with government officials and business people to see how you increase productivity, and you do not do it by simply coming here and slandering good unions, slandering good union officials and slandering workers who want representation through the union movement, as we see time and time again from those on the opposite side.</para>
<para>It is about decent, quality products. Certainly it is about cost, but that is only one element. It is about cost, it is about quality, it is about research and development, it is about innovation, it is about logistics and it is about management systems. It is not about what the coalition simply see as their holy grail, and that is achieving Work Choices again. We know that they really want to implement Work Choices again; they just do not want to say the name 'Work Choices'. What they are saying is that they will have an inquiry into productivity. That will go to my favourite organisation: the Productivity Commission—stacked full of academics, stacked full of people with PhDs and stacked full of people who have never been on a workshop floor in their life, pontificating about how workers can improve their productivity, looking at all the right-wing theories and trying to implement them through the reports. I am not a fan of the Productivity Commission because I have seen them in action. That is why the coalition are seeking to use the Productivity Commission as the basis to attack workers' rights and use the Productivity Commission as a front.</para>
<para>Let's look at the issues in this bill. There are family flexibility, stopping bullying, making sure that workers get access to their unions through right of entry, resolving intractable greenfield bargaining and other bargaining, and making sure that penalty rates are part of a worker's right in their award. We know that that is an anathema to the coalition. The coalition hate the thought of ordinary workers having access to a union, and that is why Work Choices was implemented.</para>
<para class="italic">Senator Polley interjecting—</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Certainly, it is in their DNA, Senator Polley; it is absolutely built into their DNA; they could never get it out. Just to prove that, we had the Leader of the Opposition, Mr Abbott, who was a Work Choice warrior along with Senator Abetz, saying that it is dead and buried, but then he wrote a book called <inline font-style="italic">Battlelines</inline>. In a chapter called 'Unfinished business' he talks about Work Choices not being that bad. In his book, that is his DNA coming right out onto the paper.</para>
<para>A government senator interjecting—</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Yes, you can believe it. The Leader of the Opposition, for those who cannot remember, has said if he writes it down then you can believe it. But what he is not saying is that if he just says it then you cannot believe it. That is the DNA of the coalition on industrial relations.</para>
<para>What did Work Choices give us? Work Choices gave us the situation in the individual agreements that were put in place—this is from a federal department assessment by DEEWR—that 16 per cent of 250 AWAs expressly excluded all protected award conditions. So the flexibility that the coalition loves was to get rid of all award conditions. The Labor Party thinks that award conditions should be strong, robust and protect minimum standards for workers. Penalty rates were excluded from 63 per cent of AWAs. Shift loadings were excluded from 52 per cent of AWAs. Only 59 per cent of AWAs retained public holidays. Twenty-two per cent of AWAs provided for a wage rise during the term. So over 78 per cent had no wage rises during the term of the AWAs. So when Senator Cash comes in here and uses terms such as 'the militant union movement' and 'the thugs in the union movement', we know it is all a cloak. It is all rhetoric to try to implement more and more limitations on workers' rights to get access to a union. That is what it is about.</para>
<para>This bill takes a completely opposite position to Work Choices. It is not about ripping workers' rights away; it is about looking after workers. As a former union official and as a senator for the Labor Party, I am proud to look after working people. I do not come here, as some have, and skite about my past life as a lawyer working for the big end of town ripping away workers' rights, because I believe workers have the right to have a decent standard of living.</para>
<para>To come in here and argue that the only people who create jobs in the community are those in business is ideological claptrap. A lot of businesses could not even operate without government. They depend on government to provide the roads, rails and other infrastructure that keep their business going. You would think that a business sets up and somehow all the roads appear around the business. You would think that all the schools suddenly appear out of the blue because a business sets itself up. You would think that all the hospitals are set up by business. What a load of nonsense to say that business people are the only people who create jobs. Of course businesses create jobs. But businesses depends on government to create the infrastructure to make sure that they can compete effectively throughout the nation. I am just a bit sick and tired of the ideological nonsense we hear from the other side of this chamber.</para>
<para>'We have to make it conducive for business to employ people,' says Senator Cash. Do you know what 'conducive' means under Senator Cash's definition? It means more flexibility—that is, fewer penalty rates and lower wages. That is what makes it conducive for business. You never hear that lot over there ever complain about the $10.5 million severance payments that big business give themselves. Is that a problem for productivity? You never hear about that from over there. Is that a problem for fairness and equity? It is never discussed over there. Big business can be absolutely incompetent. Business leaders can be absolutely incompetent and send a company nearly to ruin and pick up $10.5 million and walk away. Many workers would never see a fraction of that in their whole working lives. So I am not interested in the nonsense you hear from over the other side of the chamber.</para>
<para>Their argument is that if you do not have employers you will have no jobs. Well, what a revelation that is! That is part of the fear campaign that the coalition run on every issue. If you ever want to understand where the coalition are coming from in an argument, go with the fear factor. They say if you look after workers' rights then jobs will disappear. They say if you try to protect workers so that they can access their union then jobs will disappear. It is ideological claptrap with absolutely no evidentiary basis whatsoever. They are the Work Choices warriors on the other side. They would rip everything away from workers. This legislation is about giving Australian workers a fair go. We should give Australian workers a fair go, reject Work Choices, reject the ideological claptrap from those on the other side and make sure we get decent conditions for good workers in this country.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>21:36</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BACK</name>
    <name.id>J7Q</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>What a shame. The first half of Senator Cameron's contribution tonight was full of wisdom. I stood here and thought to myself, 'At long last we are going to have a meeting of the minds.' But Senator Cameron talks about DNA, and in the second half of his contribution tonight he reverted to form. I will come back to that.</para>
<para>I stand here this evening very proudly, as Senator Cameron leaves the room, as the grandson of Tom Back, who was the secretary of the Lumpers' Union, which became the Waterside Workers Union. I think these days it has morphed into the MUA. Senator Cameron, he was the secretary of that union at a time when he was there to actually defend the workers.</para>
<para>Honourable senators interjecting—</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BACK</name>
    <name.id>J7Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Sit down, if you would, Senator Cameron, and you might learn something! I come from a family, if you don't mind, in which the respect for working Australians, the respect for new jobs, the respect for people both from the employer and employee side was mutual. If Tom Back were alive today—I have to say to you, Senator Cameron, if you go to his grave at the Fremantle Cemetery you will find that the gravestone was put there by the Lumpers' Union as a credit to the work that that man did. Unfortunately, in the second half of your contribution tonight you caused exactly the circumstance that we find ourselves in this evening.</para>
<para>I will reflect on two speeches given recently by Martin Ferguson. The first was in March, when he resigned his ministry, and the second was his valedictory speech. What a shame it is; I am sure that what Martin Ferguson said is imprinted on Senator Cameron's mind alongside his—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>It is Mr Ferguson, Senator Back.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BACK</name>
    <name.id>J7Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr Ferguson—alongside his DNA. Mr Ferguson recognised two things. The first is that unless the interests of the employer and the employee are closely aligned their organisation is bound for its demise. The second thing understood by Mr Ferguson—whom I will give credit throughout Australia, particularly in my state of Western Australia, as an excellent resources minister who understood industry—is that everybody's interests are best served when the size of the cake is increased. It was not like the rant that we have just heard from Senator Cameron, who would have us divide up the existing cake until such time as there are only crumbs left for everybody.</para>
<para>Let me share with you my experience as an employer, contrary to Senator Cameron's experience. I knew David Karpin and I agree somewhat with Senator Cameron's comment that Karpin was commissioned to go around the world to see where best practice existed and how it could be brought back into Australian industry. I was a government sector employer at that time; I was with a government trading enterprise. I have to say that, contrary to the nonsense that we have heard from Senator Cameron this evening, my objective, which I achieved successfully through seven years in that job running a government trading entity, was to ensure that not only did my employees retain what was due to them but we turned it from a loss-making venture into a profit-making venture. We assured the security of employment for those people. I then moved to a private sector company. I know that I am not allowed to use visual aids in this place, Mr Deputy President—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>You are correct.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BACK</name>
    <name.id>J7Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>but Senator Cameron drew attention to logistics. I cannot help but draw attention to the first fuel industry B-double, a picture of which I am holding, that was ever brought into the state of Tasmania, which I did and which I paid for. I did so over the move of the Transport Workers Union, because I tried to keep my fuel industry drivers employed. You would not believe it, would you? I had to go to the industrial commission in Hobart to make sure that my own drivers kept their jobs. What was I trying to do? I was just trying to bring in an enterprise bargaining agreement, an EBA. You would not believe it would you?</para>
<para>That is why I am so disappointed with the contribution of Senator Cameron. He spoke of the need to change work practices. He spoke of the need to increase productivity. He spoke of the need for the development of business plans. What a shame the Labor Party did not take Senator Cameron on board when Senator Conroy and now Prime Minister Rudd had their little flight from Adelaide to Canberra when they developed the NBN on the back of a napkin. Senator Cameron is quite right: you need a business plan. You need a business plan for a business of $1,000, let alone one of $37 billion. What did Senator Conroy at the time stand up proudly in this place and tell us? He said, 'I don't need a business plan,' for a project which was due to cost $37 billion and which is now getting closer to $50 billion. Had he had done his business plan he might actually have realised that 37 was going to become 50. And had he done a risk analysis, which I am sure Senator Cameron would have drawn attention to, having developed the theme of a business plan—</para>
<para class="italic">Senator Sinodinos interjecting—</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BACK</name>
    <name.id>J7Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>he might also have come to the realisation, Senator Sinodinos, through you, Mr Deputy President, that there were going to be problems with asbestos raising its ugly head so frequently. But, no, Senator Conroy did not listen to Senator Cameron with his wisdom about the need for a business plan.</para>
<para>So I say to this chamber that there are enormous needs on both sides—employer and employee. I also repeat that if the interests of the employer and those of the employee are not closely aligned long term then it will lead to the demise of both.</para>
<para>How interesting it is that Senator Cameron focused on penalty rates. Mr Deputy President, let me tell you a little bit about penalty rates in the hospitality and retail industries. As Senator Williams reminded me, just before he left the chamber, the cost now on a public holiday for someone who is running a pizza organisation—pizza deliveries or cups of coffee—is $52 an hour. That is $48 an hour plus super plus workers compensation plus other on-costs. Who in business can possibly afford to pay someone $52 an hour to deliver a pizza to someone's home or wash a coffee cup or, indeed, make that cup of coffee? That is why I say it is so disappointing that Senator Cameron would have reverted to type in the second half of his speech after he had spoken so eloquently and so correctly. But of course what he highlights is that some 14 per cent of workers in the private sector in this country are members of unions and better than 90 per cent of Labor members and senators in this parliament are from the union movement. There is a total and gross imbalance.</para>
<para>I am the deputy chair of the Senate Education, Employment and Workplace Relations Legislation Committee, which examined all of the matters associated with the Fair Work Amendment Bill, which we are debating this evening. As Senator Cash alluded to, I did of course ask the members of the department who represented the government at the inquiry why there was no regulation impact statement. They could not answer my question. Why was there no regulation impact statement for a range of changes that would have a profound effect on industrial relations and particularly on the viability of businesses in this country?</para>
<para>It is regrettable that Senator Cameron, in his useful contribution, said, 'If you can't run a business then get out.' Armed with what has now been imposed on people by this Labor government over time—carbon taxes, now these ridiculous impositions under the so-called 'fair work legislation'—it is the case that so many people now are just exiting their businesses. People in Western Australia, the place where most—indeed, 70 per cent—of all new jobs in Australia in the last three years have been created are now saying there is just too much burden, there is just too much imposition, there is just too much red tape, there are just too many administrative fees, there is just too much in the industrial relations arena, and are they walking away from it.</para>
<para>I draw attention to a couple of points in relation to the legislation itself. It is the case that a review panel was put together. We on this side were not happy. I think Senator Abetz would agree. We were not happy with the composition of that review panel, but we cooperated with it. But the legislation that is being presented to us this evening did not contain most of the recommendations of the review panel—heavens no. Good lord, no; if you are a Labor government, you do not engage the services of experts and get them to go out and consult, come back and advise you, and then take some notice of it.</para>
<para class="italic">Senator Bilyk interjecting—</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BACK</name>
    <name.id>J7Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>No, you do not do that, do you, Senator Bilyk? You cherry pick. You pick those bits that suit you, bring in those areas that do not even find their way into the review, then come here and say you consulted widely.</para>
<para>A couple of areas we believe should have been the subject of change in this particular legislation include the High Court's unanimous judgement in the case of Barclay v Bendigo TAFE. For those of you not familiar with it, it was a case in which an employee, himself a union boss, took the position that he was untouchable and therefore should not have been the subject of any discipline. It is interesting: once this matter went to the High Court of Australia, we saw a situation in which Minister Shorten, the gentleman who keeps either changing horse in midstream or stream in midhorse, actually acted as a union official rather than a minister of the Crown, foolishly intervening on the side of the education union. I quote the judgement and the comments of then High Court Justice Heydon:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… the Minister's stance before and during the oral hearing was not that of an intervener, but that of a partisan. For example, some of the Minister's oral submissions were directed to factual material. This is hardly the province of an intervener.</para></quote>
<para>He sure as hell intervened last night, didn't he? He intervened three years ago to get rid of the elected Prime Minister of Australia and he intervened last night to create Kevin 57. I object to these headlines saying 'Kevin's Back'. There is only one Back in the Australian parliament—that is me! He might be Kevin 57, but I can assure you he is not Kevin's Back. That, in fact, is me!</para>
<para>It was in 2007 that Mr Rudd, then Leader of the Opposition, pledged, as I am sure Senator Abetz will recall, that the Fair Work Act would not allow the return of strike first, talk later, and yet the decision of the Federal Court in a second case—that of JJ Richards & Sons Pty Ltd—tells a very different story. It will be interesting. On day 1, of course, Prime Minister Rudd failed badly in the immigration area, on temporary protection visas. It will be interesting to see whether in the next few days he picks up on what was a commitment in 2007 and goes back to his belief that you should not have strike first and ask later.</para>
<para>I come from a background contrary to everything I hear from the now Leader of the Government in the Senate, Senator Wong, who goes on about our side of politics only ever wanting to see jobs destroyed et cetera. I happen to come from a background—and I think I have illustrated it this evening—that wants to create employment, that wants to get to a stage of creating not only creating useful, worthy and profitable employment for people, but I have a track record of people leaving my employ to go into their own businesses. That has always given me a huge amount of pride and pleasure.</para>
<para>I spoke earlier this evening on earlier legislation and that was the Migration Amendment (Offshore Resources Activity) Bill 2013. It has had the effect of driving offshore multinational overseas-owned ship owners and operators away from Australian waters. A member of my own family this time last week was in China with the objective of buying numbers of vessels to service the offshore industry. Members of the AMWU came to see me recently to see what we could do to stimulate and re-establish shipbuilding in this country. I put the challenge to them: 'Give me some level of satisfaction, if you can, on your commitment to work with employers, to work with bosses.' My son-in-law told me that the Chinese shipyard at which he was negotiating the purchase of ships only last week was turning out the best quality vessels for the offshore oil and gas industry. They are building one every 10 days. It almost is like the Liberty ships on the US coast at San Diego during the Second World War with 30 a year. I had to reflect on what would be our capacity to be able to compete with that and bring that sort of manufacture to Western Australia.</para>
<para>Let me reflect on a conversation I had during the hearing on this bill at the committee level with the MUA. I spoke at that time with a Mr Doleman. I put to him: What would be the relationship between the union and employers? I drew his attention to comments made by Mr Shorten—I do not know if he is a minister yet—at the opening of the MUA conference earlier this year in Fremantle where the MUA was quoted as being less than cooperative with industry. Mr Doleman said to me:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Whatever hype people talk at conferences it is not the proof of the pudding; the proof of the pudding is in the eating.</para></quote>
<para>He added that he and his union and people:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… we engage in tripartite and bilateral negotiations and discussions with employers and industry and government bodies on a daily basis.</para></quote>
<para>So I took him to an issue that we know we are dealing with, as Senator Abetz spoke about it earlier, and that is the question of bullying. I did raise with the MUA, the ACTU and a third union group—the SIA—the question of whether or not bullying could include a union official in a workplace. It is interesting because we put up as an amendment that the employer to employee, employee to employee, contractor on the workplace—and my own—experience of being bullied in workplaces has almost unanimously and uniquely been from union officials. Of course, that did not find its way into the legislation.</para>
<para>I said to him:</para>
<quote><para class="block">I go to the question of bullying. Give me your view of bullying and intimidation.</para></quote>
<para>First of all he said:</para>
<para>… I am an arch villain against people who are bullies. For my own personal record: I am an ambassador of theRibbon Foundation—</para>
<para>and he had—</para>
<quote><para class="block">the honour of being ambassador of the year ….</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We are very much opposed to bullying in the workplace.</para></quote>
<para>So I said to him:</para>
<quote><para class="block">You and your union have a zero tolerance approach—I am delighted to learn that.</para></quote>
<para>And he agreed.</para>
<para>That was evidence on 22 April. I then picked up a newspaper over the weekend of 3 and 4 May this year and—you would not believe it—a member of the MUA was speaking of offshore vessels brought into this country by overseas operators and owners, about whom I was speaking earlier, and had the audacity to suggest that with a vessel that is only a year old and has done very little work, with many bunks never slept in, that none of the MUA crew were or are dissatisfied with their mattresses. What sort of a reaction do you think that got in a climate of zero tolerance? This particular person in responding—Mr Doug Heath, an organiser with the union's Western Australian branch—called this person 26 times. Senator Bilyk has sensitivities, and I am not going to use the actual words because they would be unparliamentary. But some of these words started with 'f' and ended with 'king', and there were terms like 'maggot', 'snivelling grub', 'f---wit' and a piece of material that I probably as a veterinarian had my hands in at some time in the past. This is what we are dealing with. We have the head of the union—</para>
<para class="italic">Senator Bilyk interjecting—</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BACK</name>
    <name.id>J7Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>You are very sensitive, Senator Bilyk, and I respect that sensitivity. We are dealing with a circumstance in which the officials of the union proudly say they oppose bullying, and yet nothing at all to discipline this particular person.</para>
<para>This is poor legislation. It is not family-friendly legislation. As I put to the officials, there are two things about family-friendly legislation: the first is getting a job and the second is keeping a job. If we are going to continue to see the sorts of attitudes presented to us this evening by Senator Cameron and some of these witnesses we will never achieve that. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired.)</inline></para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>21:56</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SINODINOS</name>
    <name.id>bv7</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Our Senate leader has been eloquent tonight in describing the problems with this legislation and the lengths to which the opposition has gone in order to try and improve it. Sadly, it seems to have fallen on deaf ears. I have to say that on his first day on the job, the new Prime Minister, Kevin Rudd, has shown he is no less a captive of vested interests, in this case the trade union movement, than his predecessor was, someone who did her best to narrow the base of the Labor Party to the trade union movement.</para>
<para>Senator Cameron, in his contribution on this bill, talked about flexibility and what 'flexibility' is a code for. Flexibility is code for more jobs. It is code for higher productivity. Flexibility is all about equipping workers to better deal with the changing workplace. It is about flexibility between workers and their bosses and employers to come to win-win deals which allow them to improve productivity and competitiveness in a cooperative way. What we have here it is a party, is a government, which believes that the answer to all industrial problems is more and more regulation.</para>
<para>I note, as Senator Back mentioned, there is no regulatory impact statement to go with this legislation. What has the government got to hide? If the benefits of this legislation outweigh the costs, why not put them out there? Why not demonstrate it to the public? Why not try and take the public with you? I will tell you what is happening here: the unions are getting in for their last chop. They think the writing is on the wall. They think the government is on the way out, and they are squeezing every last piece of legislation, every last piece of 'protection' they can get out of this government. That is the shame of all of this. Yet another bill that has been exempted from the need for a regulatory impact statement.</para>
<para>I have to say that the role that the unions play in the governance of the Labor Party means that elected officials are under considerable pressure to agree to things which they may in their heart of hearts believe are not in the public interest. They are persuaded to do so, because their union paymasters have said they should be done. Kevin Rudd has talked about offering an olive branch to business and working with business. But along with Julia Gillard in opposition, he was one of the authors of the policy Forward with Fairness that became the basis of the Fair Work Act, which has re-regulated the labour market. He talks about picking up the mantle of reform from the Hawke-Keating era, and yet he wrote an essay at the height of the global financial crisis attacking so-called neoliberal economic policies and casting aspersions on the very heritage of Hawke and Keating, who went to great lengths to help open up the economy with the support of the coalition. That is the hypocrisy of this Prime Minister. He wants to extend an olive branch to business, and behind his back he has a baseball bat and it is called the Fair Work Act.</para>
<para>This is no way forward for industrial relations in Australia. The coalition have a policy which restores balance in the workplace and we will implement that policy after 14 September, or whenever the election is.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>7L6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! The time allotted for the consideration of this bill has now expired. The question now is that the second reading amendment on sheet 7419 moved by Senator Abetz be agreed to.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided [22:04]<br />(The President—Senator Hogg)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>30</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Abetz, E</name>
                  <name>Back, CJ</name>
                  <name>Bernardi, C</name>
                  <name>Birmingham, SJ</name>
                  <name>Boyce, SK</name>
                  <name>Brandis, GH</name>
                  <name>Bushby, DC</name>
                  <name>Cash, MC</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                  <name>Cormann, M</name>
                  <name>Edwards, S</name>
                  <name>Eggleston, A</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, DJ</name>
                  <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                  <name>Fifield, MP</name>
                  <name>Humphries, G</name>
                  <name>Johnston, D</name>
                  <name>Joyce, B</name>
                  <name>Kroger, H (teller)</name>
                  <name>Macdonald, ID</name>
                  <name>Mason, B</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                  <name>Nash, F</name>
                  <name>Parry, S</name>
                  <name>Payne, MA</name>
                  <name>Ronaldson, M</name>
                  <name>Sinodinos, A</name>
                  <name>Smith, D</name>
                  <name>Williams, JR</name>
                  <name>Xenophon, N</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>34</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Bilyk, CL</name>
                  <name>Bishop, TM</name>
                  <name>Carr, KJ</name>
                  <name>Collins, JMA</name>
                  <name>Crossin, P</name>
                  <name>Di Natale, R</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D</name>
                  <name>Feeney, D</name>
                  <name>Furner, ML</name>
                  <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                  <name>Hogg, JJ</name>
                  <name>Lines, S</name>
                  <name>Ludlam, S</name>
                  <name>Lundy, KA</name>
                  <name>Marshall, GM</name>
                  <name>McEwen, A</name>
                  <name>McLucas, J</name>
                  <name>Milne, C</name>
                  <name>Moore, CM</name>
                  <name>Polley, H (teller)</name>
                  <name>Pratt, LC</name>
                  <name>Rhiannon, L</name>
                  <name>Siewert, R</name>
                  <name>Singh, LM</name>
                  <name>Stephens, U</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G</name>
                  <name>Thistlethwaite, M</name>
                  <name>Thorp, LE</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, AE</name>
                  <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                  <name>Wong, P</name>
                  <name>Wright, PL</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names></names>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>22:</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>7L6</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The question now is that the bill be read a second time.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a second time.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>7L6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question now is that amendments numbered (1) to (27) on sheet 7389 circulated by the opposition be agreed to.</para>
<para class="italic"><inline font-style="italic">Opposition's circulated amendments—</inline></para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Schedule 3, item 1, page 16 (line 6), omit "allows a worker", substitute "allows a worker or employer".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) Schedule 3, item 3, page 16 (line 17), omit "Workers bullied at work", substitute "Workers or employers bullied at work".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) Schedule 3, item 4, page 16 (line 21), omit "workers bullied", substitute "workers or employers bullied".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(4) Schedule 3, item 5, page 17 (line 1), omit "workers bullied", substitute "workers or employers bullied".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(5) Schedule 3, item 6, page 17 (line 5), omit "Workers bullied", substitute "Workers or employers bullied".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(6) Schedule 3, item 6, page 17 (line 8), omit "a worker who", substitute "a worker or employer who".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(7) Schedule 3, item 6, page 17 (line 9), omit "stop the bullying", substitute "stop the bullying after seeking advice from the Fair Work Ombudsman or Safe Work Australia or such other organisation as prescribed by the regulations".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(8) Schedule 3, item 6, page 17 (line 12), omit "Stopping workers", substitute "Stopping workers and employers".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(9) Schedule 3, item 6, page 17 (line 14), omit "A worker who", substitute "Subject to subsection (1A), a worker or employer who".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(10) Schedule 3, item 6, page 17 (line 15), omit "at work", substitute "at work by a worker, employer or official of a registered organisation".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(11) Schedule 3, item 6, page 17 (after line 15), after subsection 789FC(1), insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (1A) Prior to applying to the FWC for an order under section 789FF, the worker or employer must seek preliminary advice from one of the following organisations confirming that the behaviour in question does, or may, constitute bullying and that alternative remedies have been considered:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) the Fair Work Ombudsman;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) Safe Work Australia;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) an occupational health and safety organisation of a State or Territory prescribed by the regulations pursuant to subsection (1B).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (1B) The Governor-General may make regulations prescribing an occupational health and safety organisation of a State or Territory. However, if the Governor-General makes the regulation, the regulation must include at least one occupational health and safety organisation from each State and Territory.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(12) Schedule 3, item 6, page 18 (line 3), omit "worker <inline font-style="italic">bullied</inline>", substitute "worker or employer <inline font-style="italic">bullied</inline>".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(13) Schedule 3, item 6, page 18 (line 4), omit "A worker", substitute "A worker or employer".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(14) Schedule 3, item 6, page 18 (line 5), omit "the worker", substitute "the worker or employer".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(15) Schedule 3, item 6, page 18 (line 8), at the end of subparagraph 789FD(1)(a)(ii), add "or".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(16) Schedule 3, item 6, page 18 (after line 8), after subparagraph 789FD(1)(a)(ii), insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">      (iii) an official of a registered organisation;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(17) Schedule 3, item 6, page 18 (line 9), omit "the worker", substitute "the worker or employer".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(18) Schedule 3, item 6, page 18 (line 10), omit "group of workers of which the worker is a member", substitute "group of which the worker or employer is a member".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(19) Schedule 3, item 6, page 19 (line 12), omit "a worker", substitute "a worker or an employer".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(20) Schedule 3, item 6, page 19 (line 14), omit "the worker", substitute "the worker or employer".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(21) Schedule 3, item 6, page 19 (line 16), omit "the worker", substitute "the worker or employer".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(22) Schedule 3, item 6, page 19 (line 18), omit "order it considers appropriate", substitute "order it considers appropriate, including an order revoking a union right of entry permit,".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(23) Schedule 3, item 6, page 19 (line 20), omit "the worker", substitute "the worker or employer".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(24) Schedule 3, item 6, page 19 (line 27), omit "the worker", substitute "the worker or employer".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(25) Schedule 3, item 6, page 19 (line 30), omit "the worker", substitute "the worker or employer".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(26) Schedule 3, item 6, page 20 (line 7), omit "a worker", substitute "a worker or employer".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(27) Schedule 3, item 6, page 20 (line 8), omit "the worker", substitute "the worker or employer".</para></quote>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [22:08]<br />(The President—Senator Hogg)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>30</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Abetz, E</name>
                  <name>Back, CJ</name>
                  <name>Bernardi, C</name>
                  <name>Birmingham, SJ</name>
                  <name>Boyce, SK</name>
                  <name>Brandis, GH</name>
                  <name>Bushby, DC</name>
                  <name>Cash, MC</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                  <name>Cormann, M</name>
                  <name>Edwards, S</name>
                  <name>Eggleston, A</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, DJ</name>
                  <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                  <name>Fifield, MP</name>
                  <name>Humphries, G</name>
                  <name>Johnston, D</name>
                  <name>Joyce, B</name>
                  <name>Kroger, H (teller)</name>
                  <name>Macdonald, ID</name>
                  <name>Mason, B</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                  <name>Nash, F</name>
                  <name>Parry, S</name>
                  <name>Payne, MA</name>
                  <name>Ronaldson, M</name>
                  <name>Sinodinos, A</name>
                  <name>Smith, D</name>
                  <name>Williams, JR</name>
                  <name>Xenophon, N</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>34</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Bilyk, CL</name>
                  <name>Bishop, TM</name>
                  <name>Carr, KJ</name>
                  <name>Collins, JMA</name>
                  <name>Crossin, P</name>
                  <name>Di Natale, R</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D</name>
                  <name>Feeney, D</name>
                  <name>Furner, ML</name>
                  <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                  <name>Hogg, JJ</name>
                  <name>Lines, S</name>
                  <name>Ludlam, S</name>
                  <name>Lundy, KA</name>
                  <name>Marshall, GM</name>
                  <name>McEwen, A</name>
                  <name>McLucas, J</name>
                  <name>Milne, C</name>
                  <name>Moore, CM</name>
                  <name>Polley, H (teller)</name>
                  <name>Pratt, LC</name>
                  <name>Rhiannon, L</name>
                  <name>Siewert, R</name>
                  <name>Singh, LM</name>
                  <name>Stephens, U</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G</name>
                  <name>Thistlethwaite, M</name>
                  <name>Thorp, LE</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, AE</name>
                  <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                  <name>Wong, P</name>
                  <name>Wright, PL</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names></names>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>22</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>7L6</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The question now is that schedule 4 and part 5 of schedule 7 stand as printed.</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">Opposition's circulated amendments—</inline></para>
<quote><para class="block">(2) Schedule 4, page 23 (line 1) to page 31 (line 29), TO BE OPPOSED.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) Schedule 7, Part 5, page 54 (line 22) to page 55 (line 9) TO BE OPPOSED.</para></quote>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [22:12]<br />(The President—Senator Hogg) </p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>35</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Bilyk, CL</name>
                  <name>Bishop, TM</name>
                  <name>Carr, KJ</name>
                  <name>Collins, JMA</name>
                  <name>Crossin, P</name>
                  <name>Di Natale, R</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D</name>
                  <name>Feeney, D</name>
                  <name>Furner, ML</name>
                  <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                  <name>Hogg, JJ</name>
                  <name>Lines, S</name>
                  <name>Ludlam, S</name>
                  <name>Lundy, KA</name>
                  <name>Madigan, JJ</name>
                  <name>Marshall, GM</name>
                  <name>McEwen, A</name>
                  <name>McLucas, J</name>
                  <name>Milne, C</name>
                  <name>Moore, CM</name>
                  <name>Polley, H (teller)</name>
                  <name>Pratt, LC</name>
                  <name>Rhiannon, L</name>
                  <name>Siewert, R</name>
                  <name>Singh, LM</name>
                  <name>Stephens, U</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G</name>
                  <name>Thistlethwaite, M</name>
                  <name>Thorp, LE</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, AE</name>
                  <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                  <name>Wong, P</name>
                  <name>Wright, PL</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>30</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Abetz, E</name>
                  <name>Back, CJ</name>
                  <name>Bernardi, C</name>
                  <name>Birmingham, SJ</name>
                  <name>Boyce, SK</name>
                  <name>Brandis, GH</name>
                  <name>Bushby, DC</name>
                  <name>Cash, MC</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                  <name>Cormann, M</name>
                  <name>Edwards, S</name>
                  <name>Eggleston, A</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, DJ</name>
                  <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                  <name>Fifield, MP</name>
                  <name>Humphries, G</name>
                  <name>Johnston, D</name>
                  <name>Joyce, B</name>
                  <name>Kroger, H (teller)</name>
                  <name>Macdonald, ID</name>
                  <name>Mason, B</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                  <name>Nash, F</name>
                  <name>Parry, S</name>
                  <name>Payne, MA</name>
                  <name>Ronaldson, M</name>
                  <name>Sinodinos, A</name>
                  <name>Smith, D</name>
                  <name>Williams, JR</name>
                  <name>Xenophon, N</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names></names>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>22:14</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>7L6</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The question now is that amendment (1) on sheet 7390 circulated by the opposition be agreed to. I understand this is a consequential amendment on the amendment that we have just considered.</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">Opposition's circulated amendment—</inline></para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Clause 2, page 2 (table item 7), omit the table item.</para></quote>
<para>Question negatived.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Third Reading</title>
            <page.no>4400</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>22:15</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>7L6</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The question now is that the remaining stages of this bill be agreed to and the bill be now passed.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a third time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Private Health Insurance Amendment (Lifetime Health Cover Loading and Other Measures) Bill 2012, Private Health Insurance Legislation Amendment (Base Premium) Bill 2013</title>
          <page.no>4400</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
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            <p>
              <a type="Bill" href="r4936">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Private Health Insurance Amendment (Lifetime Health Cover Loading and Other Measures) Bill 2012</span>
                </p>
              </a>
            </p>
            <a type="Bill" href="r5052">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Private Health Insurance Legislation Amendment (Base Premium) Bill 2013</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>4400</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>22:16</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIERRAVANTI-WELLS</name>
    <name.id>e4t</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak on the Private Health Insurance Amendment (Lifetime Health Cover Loading and Other Measures) Bill 2012 and the Private Health Insurance Legislation Amendment (Base Premium) Bill 2013. It is interesting that both Kevin Rudd and Julia Gillard, as well as other Labor members, over many years have repeatedly ruled out any changes to the private health insurance rebates. Through means testing changes and announcements since, Labor has repeatedly broken its promise on private health insurance. It is important that I remind honourable senators of some of those comments that have been made. I take you back to Julia Gillard, then shadow minister for health. In a letter to the editor of the <inline font-style="italic">Hobart Mercury </inline>on 2 September 2004 she said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">I grow tired of saying this—Labor is committed to the 30 per cent private health insurance rebate.</para></quote>
<para>Again, in a letter to the editor of the <inline font-style="italic">Courier-Mail </inline>on 23 September 2004, Julia Gillard reiterated and countered assertions that Labor would erode or abolish the 30 per cent government rebate, saying:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Labor is committed to the maintenance of this rebate and I have given an iron-clad guarantee on that on a number of occasions.</para></quote>
<para>Then, again, on 15 October 2005, to the <inline font-style="italic">Weekend Australian</inline>, there was another reiteration. She said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The truth is that I never had a secret plan to scrap the private health insurance rebate …</para></quote>
<para>Well, history shows what an untruthful woman Julia Gillard will go down in history as. And then of course there is Nicola Roxon—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Carol Brown</name>
    <name.id>F49</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr President, a point of order: the honourable senator—well, I am not sure I could call her an honourable senator—needs to actually refer to the proper title of the members in the other chamber.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>7L6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>All right. If people are not being referred to by their proper title they need to be referred to by their proper title.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIERRAVANTI-WELLS</name>
    <name.id>e4t</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator Brown, for such a coherent expression of a point of order!</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>7L6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order!</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Carol Brown</name>
    <name.id>F49</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>You are the rudest woman I have ever met!</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>7L6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIERRAVANTI-WELLS</name>
    <name.id>e4t</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr President, if Senator Brown cannot contain herself at this hour of the evening, perhaps you ought to excuse her from her duties.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>7L6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! Cease the interjections. When there is silence we will proceed.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Ian Macdonald</name>
    <name.id>YW4</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>There seems to be someone standing beside you.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>7L6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! There is. That is very observant of you, Senator Macdonald.</para>
<para class="italic">Senator Ian Macdonald interjecting—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>7L6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Nothing, Senator Macdonald.</para>
<para>A government senator interjecting —</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>7L6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>When there is silence, we will proceed.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIERRAVANTI-WELLS</name>
    <name.id>e4t</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Of course, it goes on. Ms Roxon in a media release on 26 September 2007 said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">On many occasions for many months, Federal Labor has made it crystal clear that we are committed to retaining all of the existing Private Health Insurance rebates, including the 30 per cent general rebate and the 35 and 40 per cent rebates for older Australians.</para></quote>
<para>Mr Rudd, in a letter to the AHIA on 20 November 2007, said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Both my Shadow Minister for Health, Nicola Roxon, and I have made clear on many occasions this year that Federal Labor is committed to retaining the existing private health insurance rebates, including the 30 per cent general rebate and the 35 and 40 per cent rebates for older Australians.</para></quote>
<para>Kevin Rudd at a press conference—</para>
<para>An honourable senator interjecting —</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>7L6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! You do need—</para>
<para>An honourable senator interjecting—</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIERRAVANTI-WELLS</name>
    <name.id>e4t</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr Rudd.</para>
<para>An honourable senator interjecting—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>7L6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Yes, you did. Thank you.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIERRAVANTI-WELLS</name>
    <name.id>e4t</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr Rudd, in a press conference on 25 February 2008, said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The private health insurance rebate policy remains unchanged and will remain unchanged.</para></quote>
<para>Ms Roxon told <inline font-style="italic">The Age </inline>on 24 February 2009:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The Government is firmly committed to retaining the existing private health insurance rebates.</para></quote>
<para>It goes on and on. This indication that was given repeatedly by members of the Rudd and Gillard governments in relation to private health insurance turned out to be untrue. It is like many things that have happened in recent years pertaining to both the Rudd and the Gillard governments—fabrications, lies, to the Australian people. Here we have yet another broken promise in relation to health insurance.</para>
<para>Those opposite perpetrate the lie that private health insurance is for the rich. Some 5.6 million people with private health insurance have an annual household income of less than $50,000, 3.4 million have an annual household income of less than $35,000 and 10.7 million Australians have hospital cover. The government's changes to private health insurance are already having an effect. The government's own Private Health Insurance Administration Council, PHIAC, has found that in the five years to 2012:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… exclusions and restrictions have become much more prevalent.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">…   …   …</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">… the increased use of exclusions may … work against the policy objective of private health insurance in easing the burden on public hospitals.</para></quote>
<para>The full effect of Labor's means-testing changes has not yet been felt, with PHIAC reporting $1.2 billion in prepayments in the June quarter as people tried to defer the resulting premium increases. Many policyholders prepaid for 12 months or more, thereby delaying the pain of Labor's cuts.</para>
<para>Labor's private health insurance changes will put more pressure on public hospitals, which are already struggling under the $1.6 billion cut to hospital funding in Labor's MYEFO. This includes retrospective cuts to public hospital funding that has already been spent and allocated in 2011-12 and 2012-13. It has caused the closure of public hospital beds and operating theatres and delays to elective surgery. The government has since announced a reversal of its position, but of course only for Victoria and only under pressure.</para>
<para>Federal Labor has spent approximately $1 billion establishing nearly 12 bureaucracies which appear immune to cuts while funding has been slashed from private health insurance, public hospitals and dental health through the closure of the Chronic Disease Dental Scheme. The changes to Lifetime Health Cover in this bill will increase premiums by up to a reported 27.5 per cent on 1 July 2013, and of course this will directly affect lower income Australians.</para>
<para>Presently, the lifetime health cover loading is removed after 10 continuous years of hospital cover. Once again, the government is changing the rules of the game on ordinary Australians. There will be people who are close to having their leading removed, having paid the loading in good faith and abided by the appropriate rules and regulations. Now, they may be slugged with a 27 per cent increase in premiums and forced to drop their cover. The change will add extra complexity to the private health insurance system. The means-testing changes already created around 12 different pricing structures for premiums. Changes to the lifetime health cover will further increase the administrative burden on private health insurers with short time frames to change systems by 1 July and that is next week. The previous coalition government's private health insurance reforms, in the form of the rebates, the Medicare levy surcharge and lifetime health cover, saw the number of people with private health insurance increase 75 per cent, from 6.1 million to over 10.7 million people. The bill also ceases direct claiming of the private health insurance rebate through the Department of Human Services known as the incentive payment scheme. This is also to take effect on 1 July this year. The coalition acknowledges that very few people access the rebate through the scheme—99.9 per cent of rebate claims are said to be made by the premium reduction scheme or through tax offset claiming. It is claimed that this will reduce the administrative burden for the Department of Human Services, insurers and the Australian Taxation Office. The coalition supports private health insurance. This bill, which was introduced by the government last year and considered by the coalition then, adds more complexity to private health insurance and will raise premiums, including for those Australians on lower incomes. The coalition does not support the lifetime health cover component of this bill and we will be moving an amendment to oppose the lifetime health cover component.</para>
<para>I now turn, in the limited time available, to consider the Private Health Insurance Legislation Amendment (Base Premium) Bill 2013. Of course, the government is rushing this bill through the parliament. It was introduced on 15 May and debate began on 27 May. The government has brought on debate without giving the opposition time to consider it properly through the normal processes. Of course, once again Labor is playing tricky politics by listing this bill in cognate with one introduced last year. Labor is trying to hide from responsibility for the terrible decisions that have been forced on Australians due to years of wasteful and reckless spending. The Australian public know that this Labor government, whether it is under Ms Gillard or under Mr Rudd, in a few short years has turned $70 billion in net assets and a $20 billion surplus into rolling deficits and debts now pushing through the government's own $300 billion debt ceiling. Due to Labor's economic incompetence, started under Mr Rudd and continued under Ms Gillard, there is now a budget emergency.</para>
<para>Despite some objectionable cuts being implemented, the parliament does not need to consider all new legislation in the context of Labor's dire fiscal reality as outlined in this chaotic budget. The coalition acknowledges that there are serious concerns with this latest Labor bill, including that this change will increase the cost of private health insurance further for all Australians with cover irrespective of age or income; the effect of this change will not be felt by individuals or the health system for some time as it will not commence until April 2014; the effect of the government's cuts from means-testing changes have yet to be felt, with over $1.2 billion in premium prepayments in June 2012 as people sought to avoid the financial consequences for one financial year or more; and of course, like many, many other bills that have been rushed through in this session, this bill adds more complexity to the private health insurance system.</para>
<para>Unfortunately, this parliament cannot undo all Labor's bad decisions and wasteful spending immediately. The coalition will not be opposing these bills. Before I conclude my comments in relation to these bills, I want to refer in particular to additional comments made by coalition senators in the Senate inquiry. They stated that this is the third significant change to private health insurance that has been proposed by both the Rudd and Gillard governments. The coalition senators referred to means testing provided for in the Fairer Private Health Insurance Incentives Act 2012 and related legislation. That is the only measure that has been implemented to date.</para>
<para>In relation to the means-testing change, the Private Health Insurance Administration Council found in <inline font-style="italic">The operations of private health insurers annual report 2011-12</inline>:</para>
<quote><para class="block">In response to the reform, many insurers promoted prepayment options to maximise their customers’ opportunity to claim a rebate in respect of premiums paid. As a result, policy holders were able to ‘lock in’ premiums for up to the specified prepayment period, which saw prepaid premiums increase by $1.2 billion.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">…    …   …</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">… the impact on policy holders’ choice in respect of cover will emerge as prepayment periods end.</para></quote>
<para>Coalition senators agreed with submissions that detrimental effects on coverage rates and the level of cover caused by the means-testing changes and the subsequent proposed changes included in the bill will not be known for some time. Current trends in private health cover do not accurately reflect the impact of changes that have been deferred through prepayments and others that have not yet been implemented.</para>
<para>When you look at the consequences of these bills—as coalition senators pointed out—one is likely to be an increase in the cost of obtaining private health insurance to consumers, as is noted in the explanatory memorandum. Of course it will affect people with private health insurance, irrespective of age or income. As was noted by a number of organisations that made submissions, such as Medibank Private, HIRMAA and National Seniors Australia, there are particular concerns about the long-term consequences and in particular those for older Australians who are on fixed or lower incomes.</para>
<para>Coalition senators shared in their dissenting report the significant concerns of a wide range of stakeholders regarding difficulties in implementation associated with this measure and how the bills would add significant complexity to the administration of private health insurance and the associated cost for insurers. Coalition senators urged the government to give more detailed consideration to alternative measures provided to the committee that could mitigate the administrative burden and implementation complexities associated with these bills.</para>
<para>Just by way of example, there was an article in the <inline font-style="italic">Daily Telegraph </inline>of 17 June 2013 entitled 'Tax-time fright for health insurance'. The article referred to the 400,000 Australians about to face big tax debts because they have not told health insurers that they are no longer eligible for the government rebate. The article refers to a double whammy that these households will face because they will be hit with a premium surge of as much as 42 per cent when they do stop claiming the offset. The article refers to polling by Galaxy Research as to the numbers of people who will likely be caught out. They found that 22 per cent caught in the means test had no awareness of it. This equates to 392,000 people. The articles states:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… the number who could face a debt may be even higher because a further 25 per cent did not know what difference it would make to their tax return.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">'This means that almost half of the 1.7 million Australians on incomes captured by the means test could be in for a surprise come tax time,' said Galaxy's research director Peter Matthew.</para></quote>
<para>Then there is the story in <inline font-style="italic">The</inline><inline font-style="italic">Advocate </inline>of 26 June 2013. It quotes pensioner Richard Peters as saying that he will be forced to pay around an extra $1,000 a year for private health insurance under proposed government changes. For a pensioner like Mr Peters, this means paying an extra $18 a week. The article says:</para>
<quote><para class="block">'The loading will differ from person to person, but I'm 74 and that is a difference of $937,' Mr Peters said.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">'With the rates and everything else going up, it's just another cost.'</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Mr Peters said once the change went into effect, it would result in more people turning to the public health system.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">'It will just blow out the waiting list again,' Mr Peters said.</para></quote>
<para>That is a practical example of a pensioner. And I am sure that there are many, many people like Mr Peters out there.</para>
<para>I remind the Senate that organisations like Private Healthcare Australia have consistently warned that Labor's legislative changes to the private health insurance rebate will increase premiums for all Australians and force people onto the public hospital lists. Changes to the private health insurance rebate will hurt those Australians who need it most. I will reiterate the figures: 3.4 million people with private health insurance live in households with incomes less than $35,000 per annum and 5.6 million people with private health insurance cover reside in households that have a gross annual income of below $50,000. For the 12.5 million Australians with private health insurance, this will no doubt have a major impact.</para>
<para>As Mr Peters outlined in the article that I quoted, he will as a pensioner be facing paying an extra $18 a week. We know that for someone on a pension that is a sizeable amount. As we know, many older Australians will be affected and have already been affected by the changes in private health insurance. As shadow minister for ageing, many older Australians say to me that it is vitally important for them to hang onto their private health insurance. For many of them, it means forgoing other things just so that they can hang onto it. They do not want to be foisted onto the public hospital system, because the public hospital system will not be able to meet their needs or requirements. As a consequence, hanging onto private health insurance is vitally important for them. As I have indicated, the coalition will be moving an amendment to the Private Health Insurance Amendment (Lifetime Health Cover Loading and Other Measures) Bill 2012.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>22:38</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator XENOPHON</name>
    <name.id>8IV</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I note the comments that Senator Fierravanti-Wells made on behalf of the coalition about the fact that there are 12½ million Australians with private health insurance. I am one of those 12½ million Australians. It is important that we have a good balance between the public and private systems. I have serious concerns about the unintended consequences of the provisions in these bills: the Private Health Insurance Amendment (Lifetime Health Cover Loading and Other Measures) Bill 2012 and the Private Health Insurance Legislation Amendment (Base Premium) Bill 2013.</para>
<para>I have spoken before in this chamber on many occasions about the need for balance between Australia's public and private health systems. Back in 2008, I negotiated with the government as part of my support for health related legislation for there to be a Productivity Commission report on the public and private hospital systems and a fair comparison between the two. That report, which was published in December 2009 and was over 400 pages long, provides a lot of very good and useful information about the need for both systems, the way that they interact with each other, their relative efficiencies, how the private system can be more efficient in a number of areas and how the public system can play a valuable role and also be more efficient in other areas. But you need a balance between the two.</para>
<para>My fear is that this legislation will make matters much, much worse and destroy that delicate equilibrium between the two systems. Access to affordable health care is a human right. But there is no escaping the fact that our public system is struggling, with waiting lists for treatments blowing out and practitioners battling to keep up with increased demand on the one hand and budget cuts on the other.</para>
<para>While we have a health system that many in the world envy, we cannot ignore the fact that it relies on a delicate balance between the public and private systems. If we tip the scales too much one way or the other, we risk putting those systems under too much strain. The measures included in the Lifetime Health Cover loading will be bad for consumers and bad for both the public and private systems. I acknowledge the opposition is intending to move amendments to remove that particular schedule from the bill, and I support that amendment. I also have serious concerns about the provisions in the Private Health Insurance Legislation Amendment (Base Premium) Bill 2013.</para>
<para>I believe that this will have a negative impact on the rebate, and therefore on people's ability to afford private health insurance. Artificially setting premiums for the purpose of the rebate may be a cost-saving measure in the short term, but its long-term effects could be drastic. I note that both bills were referred to the Senate Standing Committee on Community Affairs for inquiry, and that the committee recommended both bills be passed.</para>
<para>However, the committee report into the Lifetime Health Cover Loading bill included evidence from the department itself that the effect of the provisions in the bill could mean an increase of $116 per person per annum. On the other hand, health funds estimated that the impact would be even higher. GMHBA in particular stated:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… the removal of the rebate on the Lifetime Health Cover loading component of Private Health Insurance premiums will result in a further 1% to 18% (average of 10.6%) price increase from the 1 July 2013 for those with Lifetime Health Cover loadings. This will impact approximately 17.9% of GMHBA memberships (approximately 40,000 individuals). In simple terms the removal of the rebate means a 42% increase in the loading for these members.</para></quote>
<para>A 42 per cent increase is a very significant amount. This is a significant amount for many people, including the elderly and those on low incomes. These people do the right thing and choose to have private health insurance to protect themselves, and now the government risks putting that protection out of reach.</para>
<para>In particular, GMHBA stated:</para>
<quote><para class="block">According to Private Healthcare Australia - the Australian Taxation Office & Australian Bureau of Statistics, 3.4 million people with private health insurance live in households with incomes less than $35,000 per annum. A staggering 5.6 million people with private health insurance live in households with gross annual incomes below $50,000.</para></quote>
<para>We should be making it easier for people on low incomes to access private health, not harder.</para>
<para>On a similar line, submissions to the committee on the base premium bill expressed concerns about the impact on low-income earners. National Seniors Australia stated:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The decision to increase the rebate each year in line with the lower of the CPI or the Government-approved increase to premiums is discouraging to older Australians who have attempted to provide for their own health care.</para></quote>
<para>The other concern is that health care has become so complex that consumers will give up trying to understand what they should be paying and what the best deal for them is, and will end up paying more anyway. Australian Unity explained it in this way:</para>
<quote><para class="block">For consumers, health insurance will be more expensive and more opaque because of the proposed legislative changes. To determine their costs, consumers must now apply the relevant (Australian Government Rebate) percentage to the ‘base premium’ for the relevant product, which is directly linked to general CPI. After determining their AGR entitlement, it is deducted from the ‘commercial’ premium to finally calculate the level of direct contribution they are required to make to their health insurer.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The situation is further complicated for consumers who incur a lifetime health cover (LHC) loading. The LHC loading is calculated with reference to the ‘commercial premium’, not the ‘base premium’ and added to the direct contribution the consumer must make.</para></quote>
<para>I hope you understood that, Mr Deputy President, because it is quite baffling. Private funds are also concerned about the impact on the way they run their businesses, and whether increased administration will lead to increased costs.</para>
<para>There is also the serious question of whether the base premium will undermine Australia's community rating system. Under this system, people pay the same premiums regardless of how likely they are to use their cover. Creating a base premium will mean higher costs to consumers, which may mean insurers will have to charge more to clients with a higher risk profile.</para>
<para>These bills risk a lot for short-term, narrow gains. I believe any benefits achieved by these bills in terms of revenue are far outweighed by the negatives for consumers and for the way that this could destroy that delicate balance between the private and public systems. In all good conscience, I cannot support these bills.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>22:44</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RONALDSON</name>
    <name.id>xt4</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I will just make a couple of very quick comments in relation to the Private Health Insurance Amendment (Lifetime Health Cover Loading and Other Measures) Bill 2012 and the Private Health Insurance Legislation Amendment (Base Premium) Bill 2013. The first question that has gone unanswered tonight is: what period of grace is there for fund members after the end of June with this transition? No grace period options have been discussed and no grace period options have been given. The minister must immediately—tomorrow—come out and say what grace periods there are.</para>
<para>I do just want to follow up a couple of quick quotes from my colleague Senator Fierravanti-Wells. There was one from the unelected Prime Minister, Kevin Rudd, at his press conference on 25 February 2008:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The private health insurance rebate policy remains unchanged and will remain unchanged.</para></quote>
<para>Again from the unelected Prime Minister, in a letter to the AHIA on 20 November:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Both my Shadow Minister for Health, Nicola Roxon, and I have made clear on many occasions this year that Federal Labor is committed to retaining the existing private health insurance rebates, …</para></quote>
<para>Absolute rubbish! Another broken promise.</para>
<para>My colleague also referred to HIRMAA. HIRMAA is the Health Insurance Restricted and Regional Membership Association of Australia. It is the peak industry body representing all 13 restricted insurers and a number of non-restricted access regional private health insurers. Since its formation in 1978 HIRMAA has advocated for the preservation of competition, believing it is fundamental to Australians having access to the best value healthcare services. I want to congratulate HIRMAA on their strong advocacy on behalf of member funds and members.</para>
<para>I have a letter from HIRMAA in relation to these bills. They wrote to me and said, 'Dear Senator, I am writing to express our strong opposition to two bills to be shortly debated in the Senate.' They are referring to these bills. The letter continues: 'The impact of these two further changes to private health insurance will have detrimental consequences for the private health insurance industry and consumers. If passed by parliament these legislative changes will lead to a significant number of Australians discarding or downgrading their PHI. Inevitably this will lead to additional pressures on the public health system, a system already under considerable stress and overload.'</para>
<para>To their letter to me they attached a copy of their submission to the Senate Standing Committee on Community Affairs. They spent a lot of time talking about the impact on low-income earners, who will be the ones who suffer the most. I will just very quickly read this:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The impact increases with the higher the level of rebate policyholders currently receive, resulting in lower income earners (those not in the means tested tiers) being the most disadvantaged by the proposed changes. It has been estimated by a typical HIRMAA fund that this impact will amount to an average 8.4% premium increase in the first year of implementation (commencing 1 July 2013). For those with significant loadings, the premium increases will be much higher.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">…   …   …</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The measure provides a disincentive to everyone without PHI who is over 31 years of age from purchasing PHI. … For those policyholders who are paying a LHC loading, removal of the rebate on the LHC loading component for those who are close to having held hospital cover for 10 years will most likely be perceived by these policyholders as being grossly unfair …</para></quote>
<para>There are a number of matters raised in this report, and what I do want to say is that there is this ridiculous notion of the Australian Labor Party and the unelected Rudd government about who is going to suffer the most from this. As Senator Fierravanti-Wells said, 5.6 million people with private health insurance have an annual household income of less than $50,000. This is not private health insurance for the rich; this is private health insurance for those people that the Australian Labor Party pretends to represent!</para>
<para>I will take you through some of the funds that HIRMAA represents, who happen to represent the very unions that these people opposite come in here and say they are there to protect. Perhaps I will just go through a few for the minister: Defence Health, Navy Health, Police Health, Teachers Union Health, Railway and Transport Health Fund Ltd, and Transport Health. These are funds that are run by those in a variety of industries, including teachers, police and Defence personnel. These are not rich Australians—these are Australians who have decided to take out private health insurance. The Australian Labor Party, for no reasons other than philosophical reasons, wants to rip this apart.</para>
<para>We should have no doubt about what this matter relates to. The Australian Labor Party and the unelected Rudd government have made it quite clear from all their actions and their legislative program that they want to destroy private health insurance. I say to those members of private health insurance funds who are listening or who will be reading this debate, if you want to protect your right to have private health coverage you must ensure that the Australian Labor Party and the unelected Rudd government is not given the opportunity to further reduce private health coverage and increase private health coverage costs. As sure as night follows day, on the back of what they have done they will just take it further and they will not be happy until they have destroyed private health insurance.</para>
<para>I make it absolutely clear that the coalition has a heavy heart in not opposing the Private Health Insurance Legislation Amendment (Base Premium) Bill 2013, and the heaviness of our heart relates to the fact that the Australian Labor Party, the unelected Rudd government, has left this nation in a position where these changes are being forced through as a result of the last budget. I want people to reflect on the unelected Rudd government's rationale for leading us into this position. I need to go no further than GroceryWatch and Fuelwatch and $2.4 billion of failed pink batts insulation. I hear the minister say, 'Oh dear.' 'Oh dear' it is that when you first came into government this nation was debt free. In six years you have loaded onto our children and our grandchildren $360 billion of debt—$360,000 million of debt. They stand utterly condemned for what you have done to this country; you stand utterly condemned for what you have done to private health insurance. You no longer represent working men and women in this country, because working men and women in this country are members of the funds I referred to before. You stand utterly condemned.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>22:53</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator EGGLESTON</name>
    <name.id>4L6</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The most important thing to remember about the Australian health system is that it is a combination of private and public systems, and through that combination the Australian people get a very good health service. The facts of the matter are that without a strong private sector there would not be the capacity in the public sector, in the public hospitals, to cater for the needs of the Australian population. There are just not enough beds, not enough operating theatres, and the waiting lists would be very long. That is why the Howard government Lifetime Health Cover policy was important—it enabled people who otherwise might not have been able to take out private health insurance to do so, and that meant they could access the private hospital sector and the private medical sector and not use the public hospital sector which, had they done so, would have been even more overcrowded than it is now with longer waiting lists and poorer service—not because the professional people in the public hospitals are negligent or disinterested in the people who come to those hospitals but simply because of the enormous weight of numbers, which would slow down the service.</para>
<para>The government's changes to private health insurance are already having an adverse effect on our hospital system, and Labor's private health insurance changes will put more pressure on public hospitals which are already struggling under the $1.6 billion cut to hospital funding under Labor's MYEFO</para>
<para>We believe in private health insurance. We believe in the private sector. We have to make sure that Labor is stopped in its tracks and that the quality of Australian medicine is maintained.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5v</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The time allocated for consideration of these bills has now expired. The question is that these bills be now read a second time.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bills read a second time.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>7L6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>In respect of the Private Health Insurance Amendment (Lifetime Health Cover Loading and Other Measures) Bill 2012 the question is that schedule 1 stand as printed.</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">Opposition's circulated amendment— </inline></para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Schedule 1, page 3 (line 1) to page 5 (line 7).</para></quote>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [22:59]<br />(The President—Senator Hogg)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>34</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Bilyk, CL</name>
                  <name>Bishop, TM</name>
                  <name>Brown, CL (teller)</name>
                  <name>Carr, KJ</name>
                  <name>Collins, JMA</name>
                  <name>Crossin, P</name>
                  <name>Di Natale, R</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D</name>
                  <name>Feeney, D</name>
                  <name>Furner, ML</name>
                  <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                  <name>Hogg, JJ</name>
                  <name>Lines, S</name>
                  <name>Ludlam, S</name>
                  <name>Lundy, KA</name>
                  <name>Marshall, GM</name>
                  <name>McEwen, A</name>
                  <name>McLucas, J</name>
                  <name>Milne, C</name>
                  <name>Moore, CM</name>
                  <name>Polley, H</name>
                  <name>Pratt, LC</name>
                  <name>Rhiannon, L</name>
                  <name>Siewert, R</name>
                  <name>Singh, LM</name>
                  <name>Stephens, U</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G</name>
                  <name>Thistlethwaite, M</name>
                  <name>Thorp, LE</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, AE</name>
                  <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                  <name>Wright, PL</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>30</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Back, CJ</name>
                  <name>Birmingham, SJ</name>
                  <name>Boyce, SK</name>
                  <name>Brandis, GH</name>
                  <name>Bushby, DC</name>
                  <name>Cash, MC</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                  <name>Edwards, S</name>
                  <name>Eggleston, A</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, DJ</name>
                  <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                  <name>Fifield, MP</name>
                  <name>Humphries, G</name>
                  <name>Johnston, D</name>
                  <name>Joyce, B</name>
                  <name>Kroger, H (teller)</name>
                  <name>Macdonald, ID</name>
                  <name>Madigan, JJ</name>
                  <name>Mason, B</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                  <name>Nash, F</name>
                  <name>Parry, S</name>
                  <name>Payne, MA</name>
                  <name>Ronaldson, M</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A</name>
                  <name>Ryan, SM</name>
                  <name>Sinodinos, A</name>
                  <name>Smith, D</name>
                  <name>Williams, JR</name>
                  <name>Xenophon, N</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names></names>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division></subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Third Reading</title>
            <page.no>4409</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>23:03</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>7L6</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the remaining stages of the Private Health Insurance Amendment (Lifetime Health Cover Loading and Other Measures) Bill 2012 be agreed to and that this bill be now passed.</para>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [23:03]<br />(The President—Senator Hogg)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>34</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Bilyk, CL</name>
                  <name>Bishop, TM</name>
                  <name>Brown, CL (teller)</name>
                  <name>Carr, KJ</name>
                  <name>Collins, JMA</name>
                  <name>Crossin, P</name>
                  <name>Di Natale, R</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D</name>
                  <name>Feeney, D</name>
                  <name>Furner, ML</name>
                  <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                  <name>Hogg, JJ</name>
                  <name>Lines, S</name>
                  <name>Ludlam, S</name>
                  <name>Lundy, KA</name>
                  <name>Marshall, GM</name>
                  <name>McEwen, A</name>
                  <name>McLucas, J</name>
                  <name>Milne, C</name>
                  <name>Moore, CM</name>
                  <name>Polley, H</name>
                  <name>Pratt, LC</name>
                  <name>Rhiannon, L</name>
                  <name>Siewert, R</name>
                  <name>Singh, LM</name>
                  <name>Stephens, U</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G</name>
                  <name>Thistlethwaite, M</name>
                  <name>Thorp, LE</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, AE</name>
                  <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                  <name>Wright, PL</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>30</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Back, CJ</name>
                  <name>Birmingham, SJ</name>
                  <name>Boyce, SK</name>
                  <name>Brandis, GH</name>
                  <name>Bushby, DC</name>
                  <name>Cash, MC</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                  <name>Edwards, S</name>
                  <name>Eggleston, A</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, DJ</name>
                  <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                  <name>Fifield, MP</name>
                  <name>Humphries, G</name>
                  <name>Johnston, D</name>
                  <name>Joyce, B</name>
                  <name>Kroger, H (teller)</name>
                  <name>Macdonald, ID</name>
                  <name>Madigan, JJ</name>
                  <name>Mason, B</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                  <name>Nash, F</name>
                  <name>Parry, S</name>
                  <name>Payne, MA</name>
                  <name>Ronaldson, M</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A</name>
                  <name>Ryan, SM</name>
                  <name>Sinodinos, A</name>
                  <name>Smith, D</name>
                  <name>Williams, JR</name>
                  <name>Xenophon, N</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names></names>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to. <br />Bill read a third time.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>23:06</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>7L6</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The question now is that the remaining stage of the Private Health Insurance Legislation Amendment (Base Premium) Bill 2013 be agreed to and that this bill be now passed.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a third time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>ADJOURNMENT</title>
        <page.no>4410</page.no>
        <type>ADJOURNMENT</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Canberra Centenary</title>
          <page.no>4410</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>23:06</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LUNDY</name>
    <name.id>7G6</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Since 2008, I have been privileged to deliver no fewer than 10 adjournment speeches on various aspects of Canberra's superb centenary history. It has been, for me, quite an unforgettable journey and one that I will always treasure. It has taught me so much about the quality, and the often unrecognised quality, of Australia past and present when viewed through the revealing lens of the nation's unique bush capital city.</para>
<para>For this reason, nothing has given me more pleasure, as a senator for the Australian Capital Territory, than to be an active participant in Canberra's 2013 centenary celebrations. The year has plenty more in it, plenty more to come, but it will surely not be possible to surpass what we have already had, with Robyn Archer and her centenary team putting on such a great show.</para>
<para>The constraints of time tonight do not allow me to dwell on the mass of artworks, activities, conferences, speeches, concerts, events and exhibitions so far, but I would like to mention just a few of the year's highlights in this, no doubt my last centenary speech before the next federal election.</para>
<para>I start with the big March weekend, a few months ago, when Canberrans welcomed so many interstate and international visitors to this city. Andrew Schultz's <inline font-style="italic">Centenary </inline><inline font-style="italic">Symphony</inline> beautifully captured in music the sense of celebration we all felt as we gathered around the lake having supper on that beautiful evening, witnessing a sensational musical score and one of the most elegant fireworks displays this country has ever hosted.</para>
<para>How appropriate it was to share such a special time with so many descendants of the original Canberra founders; Federation-era pioneers and personalities, including the present-day Lord and Lady Denman—the couple remarking, on the day of their return to England, that it had been the 'best week' of their lives. They were not alone in this. I am thinking, for example, of the audience lucky enough to be present at the memorable speeches given by the Governor-General, Ms Quentin Bryce; then Prime Minister, Julia Gillard; Chief Minister Katy Gallagher and then Minister for the Arts, Simon Crean, at the Foundation Stone site on Federation Mall. It was a pristine March morning, a beautiful autumn day on the Limestone Plains. Each of their presentations paid homage to the lofty sentiments of their equivalents 100 years ago. For a few unforgettable moments, the past and present were beautifully intertwined.</para>
<para>Then there was the Australian Ballet's specially commissioned Garry Stewart work, <inline font-style="italic">Monument</inline>, inspired by Aldo Giurgola's Parliament House design, which electrified packed houses at the Canberra Theatre last month. And we are not likely to forget in a hurry the assault on our senses provided by Patricia Piccinnini's <inline font-style="italic">Skywhale</inline> in recent weeks—a true triumph of balloon, breasts and any amount of purposeful hot air. I do not think Canberra public art will ever be the same again.</para>
<para>Less controversial this year but no less remarkable has been the string of centenary exhibitions at the national institutions that began, appropriately, right here in Parliament House last January when I had the honour of launching an exhibition entitled <inline font-style="italic">But Once in a History: Canberra's Foundation Stones and Naming Ceremonies, 12 March 1913</inline>.</para>
<para>If I were to single out one exhibition for special mention, then it would be the National Archives' <inline font-style="italic">Design 29</inline>, which is fortunately running until September, so you have time to get there to absorb the sumptuous artistry of the sixteen large renderings produced in Chicago in the Northern Hemisphere winter of 1911-12 by Marion Mahony Griffin and her team—a suite which comprised the visuals of Walter's entry, No. 29, in the international competition to design Canberra. For aficionados of the nation's capital, this exhibition is, quite simply, compulsory viewing.</para>
<para>Collectively, the treasure-house institutions during this special year continue to immerse visitors in a bygone era—an era of intense optimism, just before the outbreak of the Great War, that was largely shaped by the vision, energy and enterprise of Labor Prime Minister Andrew Fisher's second Commonwealth government. As this energetic government went full term, 1910 to 1913, with a first-ever majority in both houses of the parliament, Fisher was able to establish some of the fledgling nation's first vital areas of national infrastructure.</para>
<para>As we know, there had already been three talented non-Labor Prime Ministers before Fisher—Edmund Barton, Alfred Deakin and the formidable George Reid—but it took a Labor government to understand the precise nature of the pressing issues confronting the nation and fearlessly to pursue the best courses of action.</para>
<para>Andrew Fisher and his government were doers who, in defiance of the nay-sayers, implemented programs in the national interest—nation-building programs designed to last. The laying of the first foundation stones of the capital and the naming of the city in March 1913 were just one small yet significant part of a series of progressive initiatives. On his watch, Fisher established a national currency as well as the first national public bank, the Commonwealth Bank, the people's bank, becoming the very first Commonwealth Savings Bank customer on the 15 July 1912. Fisher also recognised that one imperative of an Australian Federation was the need to embrace remote Western Australia, and thus he immediately had work commence on the Port Augusta to Kalgoorlie railway. In addition, the Fisher government developed a busy social welfare program that included the milestone Maternity Allowance Act, the Commonwealth Workmen's Compensation Act and important, democratising changes to the Commonwealth Electoral Act. In short, the Labor government of Andrew Fisher trod courageously where no previous federal government had been willing to go.</para>
<para>In an entirely different era, a hundred years on and, amidst unprecedented national and global challenges, the Labor government of our era has demonstrated the same resolute attitude. While it has rarely gained the recognition it deserves, this government has done the blue-collar hard work, establishing the National Broadband Network and the game-changing National Disability Insurance Scheme. For the nation's schools, the government has implemented a national curriculum in key learning areas, introduced the MySchool website and injected an unprecedented level of school infrastructure funding the length and breadth of the continent. This Labor government has put a price on carbon, directing some $3.7 billion into aged-care reform; introduced paid parental leave and partner pay; and increased the pay for eligible childcare workers.</para>
<para>This is a record that any national government in any era would be proud of—much less a minority government. The last Liberal government under John Howard managed a paltry legislation record despite, like Andrew Fisher one hundred years ago, enjoying a majority in both houses. Fisher acted with urgency and purpose, while my reflection on the Howard government is that they squandered a rare opportunity in divisive pursuit of an outdated, ideological agenda with Work Choices. So, as the next federal election gets closer in Canberra's big centenary year, it is timely to reflect on our historic credentials as the party of gutsy leadership on some of the big national issues.</para>
<para>Sixty-five years ago almost to the day, another great Labor Prime Minister, Ben Chifley, highlighted, as he put it, 'things [that] are really worth fighting for'—principles on which you give no ground. Despite all of the challenges of recent years, this has not changed. It will never change, and that is what makes us different to our opponents—100 years ago, now, and in the future.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Vaccination</title>
          <page.no>4412</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>23:15</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DI NATALE</name>
    <name.id>53369</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to address an issue of vital importance to the health of the Australian community, the issue of vaccination. As a former doctor and public health professional, I find it hard to overstate the importance of vaccines to public health. Alongside measures such as access to clean water, sanitation and improved air quality, vaccination is one of the most successful and cost-effective public health interventions in human history. Indeed, it is hard to overstate the importance of vaccines in terms of the human suffering they have prevented. As many as half a billion people died from smallpox in the 20th century. This century, the death toll is zero. That is because a program of vaccination completely eradicated smallpox by 1979. The eradication of smallpox is one of the greatest achievements of science but just one example of what this life-saving technology has achieved for humankind.</para>
<para>Australia in particular is a vaccination success story. The first vaccine was used here as far back as 1804, which was a smallpox vaccine. Since then, more and more vaccines have become routinely used. Tetanus, diphtheria and polio were early successes. We have had a measles vaccine since 1969 and a mumps vaccine since 1981. All of these potentially life-threatening conditions are now rare, but not unheard of, in this country. Children born in Australia today are protected from many more diseases, from chickenpox to human papillomavirus, thanks to safe and affordable vaccines.</para>
<para>In other countries, families are still suffering the costs of many of these preventable diseases. Everyone should have the same protection that Australian children do. That is why it is so important that Australia continues to provide generous support to organisations such as the GAVI Alliance, which are committed to saving the lives of the millions of children in developing countries who lack access to the vaccines we take for granted.</para>
<para>Indeed, vaccination has been such a success in Australia that a strange thing has happened. We have started to forget what it is like to suffer from the preventable infections we fought so hard to conquer. Few parents today have had the experience of watching a child with measles develop complications that become a life-threatening condition. We are spared the horror of watching a child with whooping cough turn blue and suffer a seizure from a coughing fit. We no longer encounter people on a daily basis whose limbs have been twisted by paralytic poliomyelitis. As these horrors have faded from daily life, we should be celebrating the life-saving innovation that has saved us and our kids from death and disease. Instead, there are people who now question the usefulness of vaccination itself.</para>
<para>The AVN, the Australian Vaccination Network—misleadingly named—founded in 1994, have styled themselves as providers of vaccine information. In fact, their mission is to deter parents from getting their children vaccinated. They accomplish their mission by sowing fear and doubt in the minds of parents who have young kids, and by dressing it up in the language of science. They pretend to be neutral providers of information to allow parents to make a choice, but in reality they are fiercely anti vaccine.</para>
<para>The claims made by the AVN, and particularly by their founder, Ms Meryl Dorey, beggar belief. Despite being corrected numerous times by health professionals, scientists and so on, they continue to propagate outright myths about vaccines and their safety. They say that the MMR vaccine causes autism, a claim they know has been thoroughly and comprehensively debunked. They claim links between vaccines and sudden infant death syndrome. They claim HPV does not cause cancer but that vaccines do. They are on the record claiming that the vaccine against pertussis, or whooping cough, is not safe and has not been tested. The list goes on.</para>
<para>As well as making false claims about vaccines, Ms Dorey and the AVN make even more ludicrous claims about the diseases they were designed to prevent. They dispute the harms of dangerous childhood diseases in order to downplay the benefits of a vaccine. One especially preposterous example is the claim that measles is beneficial to children, making them more robust and leading to growth spurts. Ms Dorey has claimed that the word measles in Sanskrit means 'gift from a goddess' and has publicised a book called <inline font-style="italic">Melanie's Marvellous Measles</inline> that downplays the dangers of this disease. Mr President, as a doctor I can inform the Senate that measles is not a magical gift from Mother Nature. It is a virus that damages the human body and has the potential for serious and sometimes fatal complications. In 2001 the World Health Organization estimated 158,000 deaths from this disease. It is one of the leading causes of preventable death worldwide. To suggest that a parent should deliberately expose their child to this disease is reckless. Measles is dangerous and it can be fatal.</para>
<para>When concerned citizens seek to shine a light on the absurd beliefs of the AVN their reactions are telling. Doctors are called 'killers' and 'terrorists', and vaccinations are likened to rape by the AVN. To silence critics they take out apprehended violence orders. And when tragedies have occurred that put the lie to their nonsensical claims, they have gone so far as to harass grieving parents. Ms Dorey is alleged to have called Chris Kokogei, whose child died of chickenpox, and said that his child died because his child was weak. In 2009 Dana McCaffery, the daughter of David and Toni McCaffery, tragically died from a whooping cough infection. Incredibly, in response to this tragedy, Ms Dorey went as far as to contact the New South Wales director of the public health to dispute the cause of death and ask for confidential medical information. When the story became public the McCafferys had to endure months of harassment from the AVN and had to endure watching Dorey go on TV denying a child could die of whooping cough and accusing them of turning Dana into a martyr.</para>
<para>Fortunately, there are people in the community fighting against the harmful and bullying tactics of the AVN. In response to this disgraceful harassment of the McCafferys, the group Stop the AVN was formed with the purpose of combating the dangerous campaign. I am grateful to people like Daniel Raffaele, Peter Bowditch, Ken McLeod and others who have endured the harassment of Ms Dorey and her followers, but they do it in order to save other parents the unending pain and heartache that they themselves have had to endure.</para>
<para>Dana McCaffery was too young to receive the whooping cough vaccine. She died, though, because the vaccination rate in the Northern Rivers area of New South Wales where she was born is alarmingly low, at only 70 per cent. When you reach a threshold level the conditions for an outbreak occur. The virus was only able to survive and thrive in that community because vaccination rates were so low. And this is the very area where the AVN is strongest and where they are based. Such are the consequences of an irresponsible campaign based on fear and lies.</para>
<para>Unfortunately, I do not have time to complete the catalogue of crimes against reason and common decency perpetrated by this group. I do not know what motivates them. I imagine that they are sincere, but they are misguided, probably due to some combination of superstition, paranoia and scientific illiteracy. All of that can be forgiven, but the tactics they have used to spread their message of fear and doubt to unsuspecting parents are abhorrent.</para>
<para>It is true that we do enjoy freedom of speech in this country, and I am a fierce defender of that freedom. But because of the potential for harm we have rules about misleading medical claims, we regulate medicines and we regulate doctors</para>
<para>In the case of the AVN, that regulation is not working. For instance, among the many complaints directed against Ms Dorey and her group, the TGA ordered her to retract claims about a dodgy cancer cure called 'black salve' but she has not done that—in violation of the TGA order.</para>
<para>Well-meaning parents in this country who, in good faith, search for information on vaccines are confronted with AVN propaganda. Without knowing the background, it is difficult for them to weigh the credibility of this information against the medical literature. It is no wonder that some parents are deciding to delay or forgo vaccination, but that could be a fatal decision. For that reason, the AVN need to be held to account. I condemn them, the Australian Greens condemn them and the Australian Senate condemns them.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>North-West Tasmania</title>
          <page.no>4415</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>23:25</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator URQUHART</name>
    <name.id>231199</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>On 1 March 2013, the regional daily newspaper of north-west Tasmania, <inline font-style="italic">The Advocate</inline>, launched its latest campaign, 'Here and Proud'. This campaign follows on from the 'Show Some Respect' campaign that Senator Parry spoke passionately about earlier this week in this place. Editor Julian O'Brien said the campaign was all about reinforcing the message that the north-west coast is a great place to live and work. He said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">It's true, some are being challenged economically at the moment, but there is plenty to be excited about in our community at the same time. "The Here & Proud" campaign is designed to bring into focus the great things that are happening and the great people we have in our region.</para></quote>
<para>There is a short video on <inline font-style="italic">The Advocate</inline> internet site which features four young ambassadors for the campaign who live and work in the region: Nakore Popowski of Smithton, Natalie Jones of Devonport, Cait Clarke of Sheffield and Alex Matthews of Burnie. The video says:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The north-west and west coasts of Tasmania are rich in history, diversity, our communities and our people. We live in one of the most beautiful parts of the earth, have a great lifestyle and fresh clean air to breathe, every single day.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We have communities who care for our own, our children grow up in relative safety and we have produce the rest of the world can only dream of. Sure times are tough, but they've been tough before and we have come through.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We have new industries rising, innovative and passionate people who care about taking this region to the world. We love this place.</para></quote>
<para>Julian sums up with the words:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Please join our call, we are here and proud.</para></quote>
<para>This is very true of our region. The 'Here and Proud' campaign is a great initiative of our local regional daily and shows the passion Julian has for the region he was born and grew up in. I speak with some authority, having also been born and raised in the region and having lived there all of my life.</para>
<para>I am proud of what federal Labor has delivered to our region. It is true that our region has been doing it tough over the past few years, with the closure of a number of larger employers that had been around for many years. All had employed significant numbers of local workers in <inline font-style="italic">The Advocate</inline>'s coverage area. However, I am very pleased to say that the Labor government, through the constant agitation by local member Sid Sidebottom, has seen the need within our region and delivered for its people.</para>
<para>Sid has been at the forefront of fighting to ensure the placement of Enterprise Connect in Burnie. Enterprise Connect work with manufacturers to help them become more innovative, productive and competitive through advice and support. Over 100 businesses have benefited from this assistance. We have also delivered school upgrades to 63 schools through 95 projects and over $100 million in funding; five new trade training centres in our schools to build skills; $17 million for business innovation, which has created over 330 jobs; significant funding for roads, rail and ports; additional funding for the Mersey Community Hospital; the establishment of the Burnie and Devonport GP superclinics; more housing for the homeless and disadvantaged; funding for the North West Regional Hospital residential accommodation units; more health funding, including funding for elective surgery; approval of the Shree Minerals project at Nelson Bay, which will create around 120 jobs; the sensible decision not to heritage list the Tarkine in its entirety, allowing for mining applications and further job creation; two jobs expos, which have connected people with potential employers and training opportunities and seen 300 people gain employment; and reform for the disability sector through the national disability insurance scheme. I am very excited about the launch of DisabilityCare on Monday. I am particularly excited about the opening of the regional office in Devonport on the north-west coast.</para>
<para>We are also delivering now: a regional cancer centre; a jobs package to help our industries grow and employ more locals; the Devonport indoor aquatic centre; a memorial to recognise the contribution of Darrel 'Doc' Baldock, for St Kilda fans; the rollout of the National Broadband Network, with most households connected in the next year and Tasmania the first state fully connected by 2015; localised decision making and delivery of health services; better school funding for every school, to help our children learn; and improvements to Tasmania's roads, rail and ports, with over $800 million invested, more than double the investment of the previous government.</para>
<para>I am enormously proud to be here in this place as part of a Labor government that has delivered so much to my community, to our community. I congratulate <inline font-style="italic">The Advocate</inline> on such a fantastic campaign to bring into focus the great things that are happening and the great people we have in our region.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Prime Minister</title>
          <page.no>4416</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>23:31</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator IAN MACDONALD</name>
    <name.id>YW4</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Tonight, Australia has yet another Prime Minister who has not been elected by the people of Australia and who achieved his goal through knifing an existing Prime Minister who took the Labor Party to the last election. Nowhere in the last 24 hours have Australians been told what has changed so much about the Mr Rudd that most members of the Labor Party several years ago determined was unfit to be the Prime Minister of Australia. Indeed, there are senators in this chamber at the moment who did their utmost a few years ago to get rid of Mr Rudd because he was simply not the right person to lead Australia. What has happened in the last 24 hours that suddenly Mr Rudd has become the sort of person Australia wants to lead it?</para>
<para>A government senator interjecting—</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator IAN MACDONALD</name>
    <name.id>YW4</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I will take that interjection. I hope Hansard got that. You are on my side, Senator Farrell. Thank you for the interjection.</para>
<para>Honourable senators interjecting—</para>
<para>An honourable senator: The good-looking one.</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator IAN MACDONALD</name>
    <name.id>YW4</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Feeney, sorry. Anyhow, as long as Hansard got your interjection, that is great. But I do know you agree with me, Senator.</para>
<para>Australians are just scratching their heads in amazement as to what has happened in the last 24 hours. I and every other Australian are trying to work out what is different between yesterday's Prime Minister and today's Prime Minister. Are there going to be policy changes? If so, who has authorised them? Are they going to be brought before parliament? Of course not, because the lower house has already retired for this parliamentary term. So we are wondering what brought on the tumultuous events of yesterday. I have had people ringing my office all day—and I have to say this; this is not me—in absolute hatred of the Labor Party and what they have done to our country. Most Australians are now embarrassed about the people who lead our country. Indeed, almost one-third of the cabinet have resigned in place of supporting the new Prime Minister. What sort of confidence does that give Australians, when a third of the cabinet, a third of the people running this country, have absolutely no confidence in Mr Rudd, to such an extent that they are refusing to work with him? The rest of us in Australia have to put up with Mr Rudd, but a third of the people that have worked with him so closely have resigned rather than be in his team again.</para>
<para>The worst aspect of all of the events of the last 24 hours is that Australia is now again left in a position where we do not know when the election date is going to be. Mr Rudd has had all day—</para>
<para>Government senators interjecting—</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator IAN MACDONALD</name>
    <name.id>YW4</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I am getting comments from Labor senators, none of whom have ever worked properly for a living. They have worked for unions or they have worked for the Labor Party. They have never run a business. They have never had to actually earn a living from their own endeavours. If you understood business at all, which clearly you do not, you would understand the uncertainty, the cessation of normal business activities that occurs when an election is called—and this one, of course, was stupidly called at the beginning of the year. You have business uncertainty continuing to grow. People at least thought that the one minor benefit of last night's knifing of the then Prime Minister might be that we would go to an earlier election and get this horrible hiatus out of the way. But it is worse today because Mr Rudd will not confirm that 14 September, Ms Gillard's date, is still the date. He will not confirm whether there will be a House of Representatives only election before 1 July. He will not confirm whether it will be in August or perhaps in November. One can only wonder why this is. Is it that he is having trouble getting enough of his colleagues in the Labor Party to actually serve in the cabinet until the next election? Perhaps he has been around asking everyone to be a cabinet minister and nobody wants to touch him or his government with a 40-foot pole. Why else is it that Mr Rudd will not announce an election date?</para>
<para>If Mr Rudd has one ounce of decency in him he should, regardless of what else he does, at least announce tomorrow morning when the election will be held so that the people of Australia can make their plans accordingly. I can assure senators opposite that, over the last 12 months, the feeling I have got from most of my fellow citizens who I have come in contact with is that they have already made up their minds. It doesn't matter what I say; it doesn't matter what you say; it doesn't matter what Ms Gillard says or Mr Rudd or, indeed, Mr Abbott, I think, says. They made up their minds 12 months ago what they want to do on election day. They just want to get to the election day. Yet Mr Rudd, in his much-publicised 'playing with their minds'—something he did pretty well with Ms Gillard, I might say, over the last three months as he played with her mind—is now doing that to the Australian people, and I do not think the Australian people appreciate that one iota.</para>
<para>I would love Mr Rudd to get up tomorrow morning and say: 'The carbon tax is gone. The mining tax is gone. We'll start the live cattle trade to Indonesia again. We'll go and beg forgiveness from the Indonesians for the fact that we cut off a very substantial part of their food supply without so much as an hour's notice to the Indonesian government.' The Indonesian government, like the rest of us, read about that decision in the morning papers. They will never forgive Australia for that. Or, should I say, they will never forgive the current Australian government for that—and neither should they. Mr Rudd could start to amend that by immediately apologising to Indonesia, begging for forgiveness, indicating to Australians and Australian cattlemen that the live trade cattle trade will start in full earnest, getting rid of the mining tax, getting rid of the carbon tax and getting rid of the waste and money-borrowing that is such a hallmark of Labor governments. But, most importantly, what he should do first thing tomorrow is announce the date of the election.</para>
<para>Senate adjourned at 23:39</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>4418</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Tabling</title>
          <page.no>4418</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Departmental and Agency Grants</title>
          <page.no>4420</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Tabling</title>
            <page.no>4420</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo></subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
  </chamber.xscript>
</hansard>