
<hansard noNamespaceSchemaLocation="../../hansard.xsd" version="2.2">
  <session.header>
    <date>2011-05-10</date>
    <parliament.no>43</parliament.no>
    <session.no>1</session.no>
    <period.no>3</period.no>
    <chamber>Senate</chamber>
    <page.no>0</page.no>
    <proof>0</proof>
  </session.header>
  <chamber.xscript>
    <business.start>
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        <p class="HPS-SODJobDate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
          <span class="HPS-SODJobDate">
            <span style="font-weight:bold;"></span>
            <a type="" href="Chamber">Tuesday, 10 May 2011</a>
          </span>
        </p>
        <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
          <span class="HPS-Normal">
            <span style="font-weight:bold;">The PRESIDENT</span>
            <span style="font-weight:bold;">(Senator the Hon. John Hogg) </span>took that e chair at 12:30<span class="HPS-JobStartTimeChar" style="&#xD;&#xA;    font-family:;&#xD;&#xA;  ">,</span> read prayers and made an acknowledgement of country.</span>
        </p>
      </body>
    </business.start>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>2041</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Legal and Constitutional Affairs Legislation Committee</title>
          <page.no>2041</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Meeting</title>
            <page.no>2041</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:31</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CROSSIN</name>
    <name.id>7Y6</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Legal and Constitutional Affairs Legislation Committee be authorised to hold a private meeting otherwise than in accordance with standing order 33(1) during the sitting of the Senate today, from 1.50 pm.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BUSINESS</title>
        <page.no>2041</page.no>
        <type>BUSINESS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Days and Hours of Meeting</title>
          <page.no>2041</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:32</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LUDWIG</name>
    <name.id>84N</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the hours of meeting for Tuesday, 10 May 2011 be from 12.30 pm to 6.30 pm and 8 pm to adjournment, and for Thursday, 12 May 2011 be from 9.30 pm to 6 pm and 8 pm to adjournment, and that:   (a)   the routine of business from 8 pm on Tuesday, 10 May 2011 shall be:      (i)   Budget statement and documents 2011-2012,      (ii)   adjournment; and   (b)   the routine of business from 8pm on Thursday, 12 May 2011 shall be:      (i)   Budget statement and documents—party leaders and independent senator to make responses to the statement and documents for not more than 30 minutes each, and      (ii)   adjournment.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Rearrangement</title>
          <page.no>2041</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:33</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LUDWIG</name>
    <name.id>84N</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the order of consideration of government business orders of the day for today be as follows:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">No. 4–Tax Laws Amendment (2011 Measures No. 1) Bill 2011</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">No. 2–Personal Property Securities (Corporations and Other Amendments) Bill 2011</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">No. 3–Offshore Petroleum and Greenhouse Gas Storage Regulatory Levies Legislation Amendment (2011 Measures No. 1) Bill 2011</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Offshore Petroleum and Greenhouse Gas Storage Regulatory Levies (Consequential Amendments) Bill 2011</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">No. 14–Families, Housing, Community Services and Indigenous Affairs and Other Legislation Amendment (Budget and Other Measures) Bill 2010</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Human Services Legislation Amendment Bill 2011 (subject to introduction)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">No. 15–Autonomous Sanctions Bill 2010</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">No. 6–Electronic Transactions Amendment Bill 2011</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">No. 5–Australian Research Council Amendment Bill (No. 2) 2010</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">No. 1–Broadcasting Legislation Amendment (Digital Dividend and Other Measures) Bill 2011</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">No. 8–Electoral and Referendum Amendment (Provisional Voting) Bill 2011</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">No. 9–Electoral and Referendum Amendment (Enrolment and Prisoner Voting) Bill 2010</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">No. 16–Sex and Age Discrimination Legislation Amendment Bill 2010</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">No. 12–Combating the Financing of People Smuggling and Other Measures Bill 2011</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BILLS</title>
        <page.no>2042</page.no>
        <type>BILLS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Tax Laws Amendment (2011 Measures No. 1) Bill 2011</title>
          <page.no>2042</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body background="" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" style="" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint">
            <a type="Bill" href="r4519">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Tax Laws Amendment (2011 Measures No. 1) Bill 2011</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>2042</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:33</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CORMANN</name>
    <name.id>HDA</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Tax Laws Amendment (2011 Measures No. 1) Bill 2011 is primarily about ensuring that the subsidies and grants given to victims of the floods and Cyclone Yasi are tax deductible, and the coalition of course supports the tax deductibility of these subsidies and grants for people who suffered such a terrible start to 2011. We are debating this bill on the day that this government is going to deliver its next budget—the fourth Labor budget, the fourth deficit budget, the fourth budget that no doubt in the great Labor tradition will deliver more wasteful spending, more taxes, more debt and yet another deficit—and of course the government will again use the floods and the cyclones as excuses for the budget being in such a disastrous position.</para>
<para>Floods, cyclones and bushfires are a sad part of the Australian reality. Good govern­ments ensure that the budget and the economy are resilient enough to be able to deal with these sorts of tragedies if and when they occur, because as sure as night follows day they will occur, and a good government budgets for those sorts of contingencies. But this government has so mismanaged our public finances and so mismanaged the budget that there is no flexibility in the budget anymore. There is no resilience at all and we are now of course in a situation where, as a result of Labor's waste, mis­management and reckless spending, our budget is already in record deficit territory yet again for this financial year.</para>
<para>The government for the last couple of weeks has been talking about how this is going to be a tough budget. Yet over the last five months, the budget deficit for this financial year alone has blown out by another $8½ billion. Five months ago when the government released the MYEFO, the deficit was going to be $41.5 billion. Now we are being told that it is going to be more than $50 billion. Next year's budget is going to blow out by more than $8 billion and last year we were told that the deficit would be about $12 billion plus and it now looks as if it is going to be more than $20 billion. There is no suggestion that the government is in any way, shape or form capable of ever delivering a tough budget. I draw to the attention of the chamber that, as we speak, the government is borrowing $135 million every day to fund the deficit for this financial year. When we have a cyclone or when we have a flood, like we had earlier this year, the government cannot help itself but go for yet another ad hoc tax grab—which was the $1.8 billion increase in income tax, also known as the flood tax. So here we are: it is borrowing $135 million every day. Next year the government will spend $6 billion on interest payments to service the debt that it has now accumulated. Six billion dollars worth of interest payments! Just imagine how much a prudent government, how much a good government, how much a government that spends taxpayers' money wisely, could do with $6 billion. That is six world-class public hospitals. Just imagine how many roads or how much infrastructure could be built. Imagine how much could be done in the reconstruction effort in Queensland if the government had not mismanaged the finances to the extent that it has.</para>
<para>Wayne Swan talks about the budget tonight as a tough budget. As I have already mentioned, this is not going to be a tough budget. I noted the description of the budget by Senator Wong earlier this week. I think it was in the <inline font-style="italic">Sydney Morning Herald</inline>. Senator Wong said that this will be 'a Labor budget'. I took that as being a bit of a threat to the Australian people—that the budget tonight is going to be a Labor budget. If it is going to be a Labor budget, we sure know that it is going to be a budget full of wasteful spending, full of more taxes, full of higher deficits and more debt, and full of ideological attacks on those Australians who are not seen to be part of the Australian Labor Party voter support base. It will be a tax on those Australians who take additional responsibility for their own health care by taking out private health insurance. These are the sorts of things, no doubt, that we are going to see in a good old-fashioned Labor budget.</para>
<para>Here we are, in a circumstance where we have a budget that is an absolute mess. This is, of course, a very bad tradition of the Labor Party. This will be the ninth con­secutive deficit budget of a federal Labor government. It will be the fourth consecutive deficit budget of this Labor government—four out of four. Of course, there were five consecutive deficit budgets under the previous federal Labor administration. So deficit budgets are part of Labor's DNA. Mismanaging the economy, mismanaging our public finances, is part of Labor's DNA. People across Australia know that, whatever happens, the Labor Party in government messes things up and it is the coalition that has to come in and fix it, through a sound approach to better financial management and by restoring good government. Labor always talks tough before a budget and then goes on to deliver yet another deficit. Labor does not know how to live within its means. This is no doubt going to be the way it is going to play out yet again tonight.</para>
<para>The other part of this legislation is an attempted fix of another Labor Party stuff-up. Remember the First Home Saver Accounts, which the Treasurer, Wayne Swan, announced back in 2008 with much fanfare? We were told as part of the budget then that the First Home Saver Accounts initiative would see 730,000 home saver accounts opened over four years. Just 24,000 people have taken it up because it is such a low-value offering, due to the way it was structured by the government back in 2008. This bill will make some changes which will make the offering slightly more attractive. In particular, the changes that will be made by this bill will allow savings to be paid into a mortgage at the end of the minimum qualifying period rather than requiring them to be transferred to a superannuation or retirement savings account. We support that change, but we make the point again that the government do not know how to manage any program competently. They do not think things through before they press ahead. Wherever you look there is failure, waste, mismanagement and incompetence. There is weakness, there is indecisiveness and there is budget mismanagement. So this is yet another fix for what was an example of Labor Party incompetence in Wayne Swan's first budget. With those few remarks, on behalf of the coalition, I indicate that we will be supporting this bill.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:42</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator IAN MACDONALD</name>
    <name.id>YW4</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I also want to make a few remarks on that part of the Tax Laws Amendment (2011 Measures No. 1) Bill 2011 that deals with making exempt from income tax the disaster income recovery subsidy payments made to victims of the recent floods and Cyclone Yasi. Both events were traumatic for those involved and there was loss of life in both instances. Regrettably, both happened in my home state of Queensland. I want to emphasise to anyone who might be listening to this debate that, whilst there were those disasters, they are a matter of course—that is, nature occurring. Indeed, Queensland is open for business and always has been. We know how to deal with cyclones, particularly in the north. They cause great trauma to those directly involved, but for the rest of the North Queensland area life continues as usual. Holiday destinations along the north coast of Queensland are certainly open and very welcoming to people around Australia, and indeed the world, who may want to experience a great holiday in the North Queensland sunshine as we approach the southern winter.</para>
<para>I also wish to address the aspect of the bill where recovery subsidy payments are made to victims. I think it is appropriate that they are exempt from income tax. This has always been something that various governments have looked at. I think the Howard govern­ment set the scene some years ago when it declared tax exemption for payments to victims of a cyclone in Western Australia whose name I cannot recall. I think that was the first instance when the Howard govern­ment dealt with this particular problem that arises from disaster subsidy payments and set the scene for subsequent governments to follow and apply income tax relief to these payments. While I am on my feet I also want to congratulate the Greens political party for their support of legislation which effectively provided a tax on all Australians to assist with the flood recovery in my state of Queens­land and elsewhere but which imposed its burden only on individual tax­payers and not upon those companies that the Greens are always railing against—those multinational mining companies that are ripping the lifeblood out of Australia. That, I mention for the benefit of the <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline>, is a summary of the approach the Greens political party have always made. They always look at these international investors in Australia and say how awful it is that they are digging up Australia and exporting the profits overseas. It amazes me then why the Greens supported the Labor Party in imposing a flood tax on individuals but allowed those multinational profit-taking companies, that the Greens are always so keen to talk about, to be exempt from any payment of that flood tax which would go towards recovery in Queensland and elsewhere.</para>
<para>I simply cannot understand, with all the rhetoric you hear from the Greens as we approach the budget on how we need to increase taxes on these mining companies and other international companies, why they exempted those very same companies from the flood levy, from the flood tax. If the Greens were genuine—and you know my view on that I do not think the Greens are genuine about too much at all except personal publicity and promotion of their ultra left-wing agenda within the Australian political scene—one would wonder why they would tax Australian individuals but let off all of those companies which make substan­tial profits in Australia.</para>
<para>I do not want to rehash the debate on the flood levy but I always thought that rather than having a flood levy it would have been better to take the money needed for the recovery from cyclones and floods from the general revenue in which case companies would pay company tax towards it, the extra wealthy would pay a higher level of contribution towards it and those with lower incomes would barely contribute at all. That is appropriate in a nation with a progressive tax system. But no, the Greens did not support that. The Labor Party and the Greens, the alliance, got together and taxed individual Australians but let companies go.</para>
<para>It has been brought home to me as I have toured the cyclone devastated parts of North Queensland that the local butcher and the local baker are paying the flood recovery tax but Woolworths and Coles, their competitors in the bread and meat markets, are not paying a cent towards the flood recovery levy. How could the so-called party of the worker, the Labor Party, and the Greens, who are so keen on their left-wing agenda, possibly penalise local small businesses in North Queensland and indeed elsewhere by imposing a flood tax on them but exempt Coles and Woolworths, who compete with them in their businesses?</para>
<para>As we approach the budget tonight you will find a lot more of that sort of hypocrisy coming from the Greens. I say to the Greens: good on you. You are supporting a govern­ment that believes in the Pacific solution. I thought the Greens were opposed to the Pacific solution for boat people who come here without permission. I thought they were violently opposed to that and yet here they are supporting a government which is now having—</para>
<para class="italic">Senator Xenophon interjecting—</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator IAN MACDONALD</name>
    <name.id>YW4</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Xenophon interjects and says, 'It is not the Pacific solution; it is the South China Sea solution.' You are accurate as always, Senator Xenophon, but tell me the difference. If it goes to Manus Island, it will be again adopting the Pacific solution and I would not mind having a bet with you, Senator Xenophon, that eventually—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Xenophon</name>
    <name.id>8IV</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I do not bet.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator IAN MACDONALD</name>
    <name.id>YW4</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>You only bet up to a limit, I know. I would not mind betting that it will not be too long before our current Prime Minister, in spite of all of her promises, will actually do what Mr Abbott has suggested and pick up the phone to the president and have the boat people also dealt with at other places in the Pacific.</para>
<para>Here you have another example of the hypocrisy of the Greens and you are going to get a lot of that in the next couple of days as the Greens—they talk about how they oppose these things—support when the crunch comes their mates in the Labor Party to adopt the Pacific solution, if I may call it that. What confidence can anyone have in the Greens? I just cannot wait until the new Senate starts and we have Senator elect Rhiannon in the Greens little group here. Unfortunately you do not bet, Senator Xenophon, but I would not mind betting that she will be making a leadership bid very soon after she gets here and who would discourage her from attempting to do that and give a bit of real exposure to the Greens as to what they really stand for. I do not think Senator elect Rhiannon tries to hide where she is coming from, where she is going to or what her goals are, and that might be a refreshing change even if it is a change that is totally abhorrent to particularly those of us on this side of the chamber.</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>00AOP</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Macdonald, for some time now we have been straying a long way from the question.</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator IAN MACDONALD</name>
    <name.id>YW4</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>You have anticipated me wonderfully, Mr Acting Deputy President. The next words to come out of my mouth were to be: 'But I think I have strayed a little from the debate before the chamber on the exemption from income tax of disaster income recovery subsidy payments.' I will conclude my remarks; I do not want to delay the chamber. I will simply say that with the victims of Cyclone Yasi this sort of legislation is well received. It is certainly supported by the coalition and, as I say, it follows an initiative started by the Howard government some time ago. There are anxieties, if I might put it that way, with the recovery effort. I was told recently that the number of suicides in the town of Tully, which was one of the towns that received the direct brunt of Cyclone Yasi, have increased. That in itself is a tragedy.</para>
<para>I know a lot of small businesses in Mission Beach, Cardwell and Tully will not reopen. People had put their life savings into small businesses in those areas affected by the cyclone. In terms of being able to take advantage of the generosity of other Australians in making voluntary donations to various appeals and also of the Australian people as a whole through the flood tax—not Australian companies, I might add, but Australian people who will be contributing through the flood tax—the way that has been administered is causing some real concern and the rules relating to that have also caused some anxiety. I think it is not the time today or on this bill to go into that. Suffice to say that, as with so many things with the Labor Party at both federal and state level, the idea is good and the principle is correct but the administration of those relief schemes leaves a lot to be desired. Never is sufficient thought given to them. Never is sufficient thought paid to the importance of small business in those areas and of the small business people who create the jobs in all parts of Australia but particularly in regional Australia. As I say, I am distressed to hear that a number of them will not reopen their doors. But insofar as this legislation is concerned, as Senator Cormann has said, the coalition support the exemption from income tax of those subsidy payments and we urge support for this bill.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:55</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator XENOPHON</name>
    <name.id>8IV</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr Acting Deputy President, I will try not to be admonished by you. I will stick to the terms of the bill.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>00AOP</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Very wise!</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator XENOPHON</name>
    <name.id>8IV</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I indicate my support for this legislation, the Tax Laws Amendment (2011 Measures No. 1) Bill 2011. It seeks to implement the recent disaster related initiatives and changes to Australia's tax laws. My principal concern that I explored at the Senate Economics Committee inquiry into the flood levy legislation was for those individuals who have suffered from lesser-known disasters, such as the Stockport floods in South Australia, who have also lost their homes and whether they would be liable to the levy. I am satisfied with the response I have received from the government that those areas of South Australia that have been the subject of a declaration made under the NDRRA, the natural disaster relief and recovery arrangements, so long as one of the following conditions were satisfied: whether an individual was seriously injured; an Australian was killed, and that Australian was an immediate family member of the individual; or the individual's principal place of residence was destroyed or sustained major damage; or the individual was unable to gain access to their principal place of residence for at least 24 hours; or they were stranded in their principal place of residence for at least 24-hours. They would be fully covered—in other words, they would not be subject to any income tax levy. They would need to apply for that, so there is an administrative process, but they would clearly be eligible to be exempt from any levy.</para>
<para>I note that in my home state there were floods in Stockport, Riverton and Rhynie areas in early December 2010. There were also floods in the Barossa Valley in February 2011 which affected Eudunda, Swan Reach, Nuriootpa, Kapunda, Tanunda, Stockwell and Ebenezer. For the Clare and Gilbert Valleys Council the damages bill was in the order of $15 million. The Regional Council of Goyder had a damages bill of $10 million, the District Council of Peterborough had a damages bill of $2 million and as well there were damages for councils in Orroroo, Carrington and the Flinders Ranges and for the Northern Areas Council.</para>
<para>I believe that the natural disaster relief and recovery arrangements cover those individuals and businesses that have been affected and I think it is entirely appropriate in the context of the administrative arrange­ments in this bill. Therefore, I indicate my support for the government's bill as being necessary administrative arrangements to the tax act to implement the effect of the flood levy.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:58</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Firstly, I would like to thank those senators who contributed to this debate. Schedule 1 to this bill, the Tax Laws Amendment (2011 Measures No. 1) Bill 2011, amends the Income Tax Assessment Act 1997 to exempt from income tax the disaster income recovery subsidy payments to victims of the recent disasters that devastated parts of Australia during the 2010-11 summer. The amend­ments also exempt from income tax ex gratia payments made to certain New Zealand visa holders affected by the disaster in 2010-11 where the Australian government disaster recovery payment has been activated. Exempting these disaster relief payments from income tax is consistent with the gov­ernment's response to other disasters such as the Black Saturday bushfires in Victoria—your home state, Mr Acting Deputy President Marshall—and alleviates the financial hardship being felt in affected communities.</para>
<para>Schedule 2 exempts from income tax category C payments made under the natural disaster relief and recovery arrangements for small businesses and primary producers affected by the 2010-11 floods and Cyclone Yasi. This measure recognises the hardship suffered by small businesses and primary producers in affected areas and provides certainty for recipients in terms of tax treatment at a time when they should not need to worry about tax matters. Schedule 3 increases the flexibility of the first home saver accounts. Individuals who purchase a home before meeting the minimum release conditions will now be able to put the money towards their new home. This change amends the tax laws to allow money in a first home saver account to be paid to a genuine mortgage, after the end of a minimum qualifying period, should the account holder purchase a dwelling in the interim. Currently, this money would go towards their superannuation balance. First home saver accounts are designed to encourage individuals, through tax concessions and government contributions, to save for their first home over the medium to long term and have been available since October 2008. This measure applies to houses purchased after the bill's royal assent. The bill deserves the support of parliament and I commend the bill to the Senate.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a second time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Third Reading</title>
            <page.no>2047</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp></time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT (Senator Marshall)</name>
    <name.id>00AOP</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>As no amendments to the bill have been circulated, I shall now call the minister to move the third reading unless any senator requires that the bill be considered in the Committee of the Whole.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill be now read a third time.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a third time.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Personal Property Securities (Corporations and Other Amendments) Bill 2011</title>
          <page.no>2048</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body background="" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" style="" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint">
            <a type="Bill" href="r4516">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Personal Property Securities (Corporations and Other Amendments) Bill 2011</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>2048</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:01</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I am delighted to speak to this bill on behalf of the opposition because, as I think you know, very few things excite me more than legislation concerning personal property securities.</para>
<para>This bill makes some minor and technical amendments to the personal property sec­urities regime, which was introduced by the government, with coalition support, in 2009 and which comes into effect later this year. The regime rationalises the current Common­wealth, state and territory laws on securities over personal property to create one national and consistent set of rules and a single, national online register. It establishes one comprehensive law and thereby removes the doubts and confusions of at times inconsistent regimes between the various states and territories as had heretofore been the case.</para>
<para>The personal property securities legislation arises from an Australian Law Reform Commission reference as long ago as 1990. The matter was pursued through COAG, which in 2007 endorsed the national system. The former Attorney-General the Hon. Philip Ruddock gave this issue particular priority. In October 2008 COAG signed an intergovernmental agreement to effect the proposed legislation as part of the Seamless National Economy agreement among the Commonwealth, states and territories.</para>
<para>The amendments proposed by this bill in particular clarify that the regime does not affect a secured party's capacity to appoint or veto the appointment of a company administrator under a transitional security agreement, confirm that the rights and liabilities of receivers and administrators in respect of pre-appointment transactions are unchanged, ensure access to third-party data for consumer protection purposes and prevent access to the register for the purpose of sale of the data.</para>
<para>There are also some technical amendments in respect of the powers of the registrar and to deal with accession to the regime by states which have not yet adopted the relevant version of the PPS scheme as amended in 2010 and by this bill. These amendments were recommended by the Senate Legal and Constitutional Affairs Legislation Committee report on the 2010 amendments.</para>
<para>As I mentioned, the coalition has always supported the implementation of the PPS regime—indeed, this area of law reform was largely driven by former Attorney-General Mr Ruddock—and therefore is pleased to indicate its support for this bill.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:04</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Brandis for his contribution to this debate and I commend the bill to the Senate.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a second time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Third Reading</title>
            <page.no>2048</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp></time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT (Senator Marshall)</name>
    <name.id>00AOP</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>As no amendments to the bill have been circulated, I shall now call the minister to move the third reading unless any senator requires that the bill be considered in the Committee of the Whole.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:05</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill be now read a third time.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a third time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Offshore Petroleum and Greenhouse Gas Storage Regulatory Levies Legislation Amendment (2011 Measures No. 1) Bill 2011, Offshore Petroleum and Greenhouse Gas Storage Regulatory Levies (Consequential Amendments) Bill 2011</title>
          <page.no>2049</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body background="" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" style="" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint">
            <p>
              <a type="Bill" href="r4518">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Offshore Petroleum and Greenhouse Gas Storage Regulatory Levies Legislation Amendment (2011 Measures No. 1) Bill 2011</span>
                </p>
              </a>
            </p>
            <a type="Bill" href="r4523">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Offshore Petroleum and Greenhouse Gas Storage Regulatory Levies (Consequential Amendments) Bill 2011</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>2049</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:06</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Offshore Petroleum and Greenhouse Gas Storage Regulatory Levies Legislation Amendment (2011 Measures No. 1) Bill 2011 amends the Offshore Petroleum and Greenhouse Storage (Safety Levies) Act 2003 to impose cost recovery levies on holders of offshore petroleum titles in respect of wells and well related activities in those titleholders' title areas.</para>
<para>The levies will recover the costs of the National Offshore Petroleum Safety Authority, NOPSA, in undertaking its assessment, monitoring and enforcement functions in relation to the structural integrity of wells and well operations over the life of the well. The Offshore Petroleum and Greenhouse Gas Storage Regulatory Levies (Consequential Amendments) Bill 2011 contains amendments to the Offshore Petroleum and Greenhouse Gas Storage Act 2006. These amendments will enable NOPSA, which is funded on a cost recovery basis with levies raised from the offshore petroleum industry, to collect levies to recover costs associated with undertaking its augmented integrity and well-related regulatory functions. As NOPSA is funded on a cost recovery basis, levies imposed by the Safety Levies Act are required for NOPSA to carry out its functions and responsibilities. Current levies imposed by the Safety Levies Act are not appropriate in terms of both their purpose and the entity from which they are collectable. These bills will ensure that NOPSA is able to collect levies relating to its augmented well-related functions from the correct entity, which in this case is the title holder.</para>
<para>We in the coalition support the gov­ernment's bills. It is important to collect levies to ensure the complete operation of NOPSA and to ensure that those levies are collected right across the board in terms of the title holders of the wells as well as the company operating the drilling platforms.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:08</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Brandis for his contribution to the debate on the Offshore Petroleum and Greenhouse Gas Storage Regulatory Levies Legislation Amendment (2011 Measures No. 1) Bill 2011 and the Offshore Petroleum and Greenhouse Gas Storage Regulatory Levies (Consequential Amendments) Bill 2011. I commend the bills to the Senate.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bills read a second time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Third Reading</title>
            <page.no>2049</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo></subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Families, Housing, Community Services and Indigenous Affairs and Other Legislation Amendment (Budget and Other Measures) Bill 2010</title>
          <page.no>2050</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body background="" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" style="" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint">
            <a type="Bill" href="r4470">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Families, Housing, Community Services and Indigenous Affairs and Other Legislation Amendment (Budget and Other Measures) Bill 2010</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>2050</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:10</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BOYCE</name>
    <name.id>H6V</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I am pleased to have the opportunity to speak on the Families, Housing, Community Services and Indigenous Affairs and Other Legislation Amendment (Budget and Other Measures) Bill 2010, although I must note that, in the explanatory memorandum circulated by Minister Macklin some time ago, she suggests that the financial impact of this bill in the year 2010-11 will be $0.4 million, with other financial impacts decreas­ing as the years go on. That is $0.4 million the government has saved by delaying the introduction of this bill until now. In 2008, the then Senate Standing Committee on Community Affairs inquired into this bill, and in May 2009 the government came back with its response to the bill. So, two years on, we are now looking at putting into effect the government's reaction to the committee's recommendations.</para>
<para>I must disclose that I was a member of the ministerial advisory group that was set up by former senator the Hon. Dr Kay Patterson to establish the legislative framework around the special disability trusts some years ago. It was thought then that about 5,000 special disability trusts would be set up over the next four years, and the budget for it was predicated on that fact. The majority of the members of that ministerial advisory group were parents of people with disabilities. While there was great enthusiasm for this development, there was also concern put to us by departmental and other groups that we needed to be sure that we did not break the budget with what was at the time a very revolutionary idea: providing extra funds to assist with the long-term care and support of people with disabilities. So, in the end, the legislation that went through erred on the side of caution. Unfortunately, as a result, only 119 special disability trusts had been taken up as at the end of last financial year, I think. Clearly, the bar had been set far too high and there were too many hoops to jump through.</para>
<para>This bill—the government's response to the community affairs committee inquiry—does change some of those criteria. It allows a lighter work test. It actually encourages people with disabilities to work, whether that is in the mainstream system or on a sup­ported wage, whereas under the previous criteria, if you were capable of working, you probably could not have a speciality disability trust.</para>
<para>My thinking on the specialty disability trust had always been that it was in a way analogous to superannuation. We provide pensions for older people who cannot provide for themselves. We have never had a system that allowed people with a disability to do anything other than be on a pension. This system allows those with the capacity to do so to set up trusts for the long-term care and support of their relative with a disability—normally a child or grandchild. It means that these people, hopefully, have the chance to live the life of their choice, supported by their relatives. This has not happened in the past. We are talking about people with very little earning capacity of their own, with wages of perhaps $3 or $4 an hour, which never allows anyone the opportunity to develop superannuation. This would be a way to allow those people to proceed in an environment that protected their assets. So some of the moves that are in this bill well and truly relating to special disability trusts are very, very welcome. There are one or perhaps two that I found particularly disappointing, and one was the government's response to the committee's recommendations on home ownership. A special disability trust will continue to be able to own a residence which is the residence of the person who the trust is established for and just over an indexed half a million dollars of other assets. What the committee suggested was that the home owner's grant should be available for these houses within the trust. We also suggested that if the house was sold it should be exempt from capital gains tax. If you look at the position of any Australian citizen, they are entitled, when they buy their first house, to get the first home owners grant. They are entitled when they sell that primary residence to have it exempt from capital gains tax.</para>
<para>The reason that people with disabilities do not buy and sell their own homes is that they have impaired decision-making capacity. That is the whole reason that you set up a special disability trust—so that that person's income and assets are protected and looked after by people who can help them to make the decisions that need to be made. So, if you have a disability and impaired decision-making capacity as a result of that, you cannot take advantage of the same benefits that are available to any other Australian. The government refused our recommen­dation that the first home owners grant be available for a house bought by a special disability trust. On the same basis, the government did not accede to our recom­mendation that that house be exempt from capital gains tax when it is sold.</para>
<para>I realise that what we have here is the butting up of trust legislation against disability legislation. Nevertheless, it would seem to me to be grossly unfair to say that, because a person has a disability, that means they cannot own a home in their own right, are subjected to extra capital gains tax and are not eligible for a grant that is available to any other Australian when they buy their first home. So I would urge the government to go on looking at ways to improve this legislation.</para>
<para>We did also recommend that if the changes that were proposed by the com­munity affairs committee inquiry into this bill did not see a larger uptake of special disability trusts then we review, yet again, what was wrong with our legislation that is preventing people from doing this. There were two recommendations that I would like the government to follow. The government agreed that, again, it should be reviewed if it does not lead to a bigger take-up of special disability trusts. We are two years down the track and, obviously, this has not yet happened, so it will have to be 2013 or so before we can even decide whether we need to change these regulations further.</para>
<para>Our other recommendation was that Centrelink be used to promote the existence of special disability trusts, and on that basis I was extremely disappointed to hear Queensland's Public Trustee on radio in Brisbane last week, when asked about what was available for providing for the future of people with disabilities, not actually mention special disability trusts. What he did mention was that there are some arrangements that the federal government is sort of working on now. What he meant was this piece of legislation that will assist in making it easier for parents and other relatives to come up with a system to support and look after the future of children with disabilities. But I would urge the government to very much use Centrelink and other groups to push for and promote these schemes. They are known about in some areas of the disability community. Unfortunately, what has happened is that people who have looked at the trust scheme, under the previous legislation, and found that it was not wide enough to allow them to establish trusts, have told others that the trusts are useless. So the changes that happen here must be promoted and promoted well.</para>
<para>I noticed that Minister McLucas smiled there. I did say earlier that there was a balance of caution, when this legislation was first introduced, between the cost of it and the useability of it. And clearly—and I do not think anyone would resile from the fact—we did not get the balance right. But it was a revolutionary change and it needs to be supported and continue to be supported.</para>
<para>The other point I would like to make is that this is just one of the building blocks that this government needs to look at in terms of the long-term care for and support of people with disabilities. We now have the draft of the national disability insurance scheme. In some ways, it overtakes some of the concerns that parents who could not afford to set up a special disability trust had, because one hopes we are going to get to a needs-based disability system that is actually a fair, well-funded system.</para>
<para>However, it is not just about the money. The money is only a very small part of what people need. I had a man with an acquired brain injury and a friend of his family and an advocate for disability services come to see me last week. This man lives alone in a flat with other tenants living around him. It is low rental. His money and his food are often stolen by other tenants because he simply does not have the ability to stop this happening. He has frequent falls because his leg muscles sometimes do not react as he would want them to because of the brain injury. He often ends up in hospital because of these frequent falls.</para>
<para>The current response of our disability service system to this man is to give him three hours of assistance a day. Someone comes to cook his meals in the evening. He does not eat unless prompted to eat. This is part of his condition. He had lost a huge amount of weight—in fact, he was possibly going to starve himself to death—yet it was not until a family friend and the advocate brought this to the attention of the Queensland Department of Communities that anything was done to assist him to make sure that he got meals.</para>
<para>The family friend tells me that once he fell and broke his collarbone. He was taken by ambulance eventually to the local hospital and stayed there all day waiting for surgery on the broken collarbone. The surgery was cancelled at 6 pm and the hospital said to the family friend, who has no responsibility for this man whatsoever except that she appears to be one of the few people who cares about him, to take him home. She refused to do that. My point is that our system is not in any way conducive to helping people in those positions.</para>
<para>It is not about money. It would not matter how much money this man had in the bank. He could probably live in a better flat, but without people who care about him around him to see whether the services he is getting are good services, poor services or adequate services his life is going to continue to be unhappy and frustrating. So it is not just about the money. I think we need to consider further not just this piece of legislation—which assists by establishing trustees who will have a stronger interest than a state public trustee, for example, in the quality of life of the person—but also the need for a system that incorporates developing planning options and planning services for people with disabilities so that when they no longer have family members or others who can care for them they are not left to the mercies of the disabilities system.</para>
<para>When we do all of this we have to take into account the need to have caring people and adequate services and services that are being advocated for by groups outside government—disability service groups such as the one involved in this case, which is SUFY, a Queensland organisation called Speaking Up For You. We need that sort of support behind people to make sure that what is being provided is not only adequate, which in many cases it is not, but also meeting the real needs of people. I think it is about time we realised that by doing this we do not just save $0.4 million, which is what has happened here by delaying the introduction of this by over a year, but also all the on-costs of people becoming sick, mentally unwell, because they did not have a small input of support when they needed it.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:26</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SIEWERT</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Families, Housing, Community Services and Indigenous Affairs and Other Legislation Amendment (Budget and Other Measures) Bill 2010 is a bit of a grab bag of miscel­laneous measures with certain schedules in and then out, in and then out. However, I will limit my comments to those schedules that we are debating. The Greens particularly welcome the amendments to the special disability trusts, believing that this is a very important mechanism that enables parents of children with a disability to put in place pro­visions to make them feel more comfortable that their children will be looked after when they are no longer there. I have been particularly supportive of and continue to support special disability trusts. I was an active participant in the Senate Standing Committee on Community Affairs inquiry that took place several years ago looking into them. Having said that, I am also aware that trusts are available only to a certain number of people and that we need to be putting in place, as Senator Boyce has just said, a range of other measures to ensure that those living with a disability are supported.</para>
<para>We will be supporting the amendments the government has put in place. They were raised very substantially through the committee inquiry and I think they will make the trusts much more usable for those that have established them and for those that intend to establish them. As Senator Boyce also highlighted, because of some of the barriers in the current legislation, people have not been setting up special disability trusts and we hope that these provisions will enable people to use that mechanism much more effectively and efficiently.</para>
<para>Having said that, the government is aware that there is unfinished business on the trusts and more needs to be done. I know that in many states, particularly in my home state of Western Australia, there are people that are deeply concerned that they have already established accommodation for their son or daughter and are not able then to transfer that accommodation, those homes, into the trusts. I understand the government's nervousness about that and the belief that this would open up areas for other trusts. However, these people need our support. These people are trying to do the right thing and set up provisions to look after their son or daughter and we need to find a way to facilitate that. I for one will keep pushing until we do find a mechanism to transfer those homes—because they are people's homes—into the trusts. In Western Australia, parents are very worried that they are going to start hitting issues around asset tests et cetera. We believe more work needs to be done, so the government has a pass but 'can improve'. We look forward to the government's looking at some of those other issues to enable the special disability trust provisions to be as effective as possible. The Greens joined with many people, including the coalition, to express our concerns with the government's original provisions under schedule 2 of this legislation. We were concerned that the provisions that dealt with the issues of change in the portability of the DSP payments would adversely affect a number of people where carers have to travel overseas for work purposes, so we are pleased that the government has now circulated amendments to this. We had serious concerns about the ramifications of the changes to the portability arrangements for recipients, particularly of course for those who are caring for somebody with severe disability who is dependent on a family carer. We had submissions from carers who are required to reside overseas for long periods. As we know, that schedule was referred to the Senate Standing Committees on Community Affairs and there was a report tabled on it.</para>
<para>As I said, I am glad to see that the issues arising from that have been dealt with by the government. However, we do still have some concerns that there will be people whose carers need to travel overseas for other, very legitimate reasons and not necessarily just for paid work. For example, they may already be caring for somebody in Australia but have to travel overseas for extended periods to look after sick or elderly parents or to pursue higher education. We are glad to see that the amendments now refer to carers who are family members. We believe this has brought them into the definition of the guardianship orders and better recognises family care arrangements that can be complex and often fragile.</para>
<para>I just referred to the fact that some carers have to travel overseas for what we believe are other legitimate reasons and that they need to take the person who they care for with them. We understand that the government has acknowledged that they will review the operation of the new portability arrangements, starting no later than one year after the commencement of this section, and will include a report as to whether granting special consideration for work purposes is too restrictive and whether it would be appropriate to extend the qualifying circum­stances to cover other extended absences from Australia for non-work related purposes such as caring for other family members. We thought this was a better approach than seeking to amend the government's amendment, because we want to see how that amendment operates, but we do think that there may be other legitimate circum­stances that may penalise those caring for a family member with a disability.</para>
<para>One of the other issues that came up during the committee inquiry was the sensitive issue of the definition around severe disability as it relates to working age provisions. This is a very touchy subject and a very important issue. One of the issues that people constantly raise with me—and it was raised again in the inquiry—is that of carers who are caring for someone with a lifelong, severe disability who receive forms every two years and have to continue to say, 'Yes, my son or daughter or the person I care for still has a severe disability.' I have described before how the system works in WA. There are adopt-a-pollie schemes, where politicians are 'adopted' by a family with a child living with disability. The family that I have been adopted by was sent a letter when the child attained driving age asking, 'Has he got his driver's licence?' This is about somebody with a severe and lifelong disability. That sort of letter can be seen to be very insensitive by families, as their child will never have any hope of being able to live unsupported, they need 24-hour care and they will never have any hope of obtaining a driver's licence. I think we can do better than that in Australia. Yes, we need to have checks and balances, but that sort of thing should not be happening and it has been raised with me a number of times and was raised during the committee inquiry.</para>
<para>The Greens will also be supporting schedule 2, subject to the government's amendment, and we are pleased that the government was responsive to the committee inquiry. It again shows the usefulness of committee inquiries in reviewing legislation. I have circulated amendments to schedule 4. Schedule 4 is no longer part of this particular bill. I just need to highlight that I will, of course, not be moving those previously circulated amendments to schedule 4.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:35</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McLUCAS</name>
    <name.id>84L</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank the various senators who have made contributions on this legislation. This bill introduces one 2010 budget measure and some other measures. As Senator Siewert indicated, it is an omnibus bill. The budget measure is to enhance the existing arrangements for special disability trusts. This is part of the government's ongoing commitment to people with disability and their families and carers.</para>
<para>Special disability trusts were established in 2006 under the former coalition government. Their purpose is to help families and carers provide for the care and accommodation needs of a family member with a severe disability. Special disability trusts are different from other types of trusts in that they have generous concessions from social security means testing arrangements for the beneficiary and eligible contributors. The effect for a person with a disability who is a beneficiary of a special disability trust is that the person will not lose any of their disability support pension unless their assets exceed a generous assets test threshold.</para>
<para>The Senate Standing Committee on Community Affairs found, in its 2008 inquiry, that the take-up of these arrange­ments has been lower than expected. The arrangements were simply not working for people with disability, their families or their carers. The government responded to the committee's report through the 2010-11 budget with a number of changes to special disability trusts. More flexibility for trust beneficiaries will be provided to make special disability trusts more attractive to families. At present, if a person with a disability works for as little as one hour for the relevant minimum wage or above, they are not eligible to be a beneficiary of a special disability trust.</para>
<para>The changes in this bill address that incentive for people with disability to participate in work and in the community. The changes will allow eligible people with a disability to work up to seven hours a week at or above the relevant minimum wage and still qualify as a beneficiary of a special disability trust. There will also be a significant expansion in the purposes that trust funds can be used for, such as all medical expenses, including membership costs for private health insurance funds and maintenance expenses of special disability trust properties. The trust will also be able to make up to $10,000 a year of discretionary spending for the beneficiary's wellbeing, recreation and independence. This change modifies the restrictive rules presently in place that trust funds can be used only for specified care and accommodation expenses and will increase the social participation of beneficiaries.</para>
<para>The changes contained in this bill build on the taxation concessions the government announced in the 2009-10 budget in response to the Senate Community Affairs Legislation Committee report. In a separate measure, the bill closes a loophole in qualification for disability support pension. This loophole has meant that disability support pension has continued to be paid to people who live permanently overseas but who return to Australia every 13 weeks to retain their pension. Under this bill, except under limited and specific circumstances, only disability support pensioners currently residing in Australia will continue to get the pension. Closing the loophole will bring disability support pension into line with other workforce age payments. It will also keep the disability support pension payment system fair and effective. If a pensioner has a need to travel overseas for short periods, he or she will still have access to the 13-week temporary absence rule.</para>
<para>Government amendments to this measure will include a delay of the commencement from 1 January to 1 July 2011 so there will be no retrospective adverse effect on those affected. The government amendments will also introduce from 1 July 2011 an extended portability period for severely disabled disability support pensioners to address concerns raised by the Senate Community Affairs Legislation Committee. The extended portability will apply if the person accom­modates a supporting family member who has been posted or seconded by their employer to work overseas for a period. Senator Siewert in her contribution raised other circumstances where a person with caring responsibilities may need to travel for reasons other than work. We undertake to conduct a review of the operations of the DSP portability measure after one year of operation to ascertain if there are circum­stances which may need to be considered.</para>
<para>The eligibility for family tax benefit part A of some families with FTB children who are studying overseas full time will be clarified by this bill. If the courses these young people are undertaking do not link to an Australian qualification, it is not clear under the current legislation that they should attract family tax benefit part A. This bill puts that beneficial policy intention beyond doubt. It makes sure that young people studying overseas full time are treated for family tax benefit purposes in the same way as full-time students undertaking Australian study.</para>
<para>Further amendments in the bill are minor matters. In particular they address two minor anomalies arising from the pension reform legislation enacted in 2009. Both amend­ments are to make sure people get the benefit of the new provisions that they were inten­ded to have. Amendments made in the House withdrew from the bill the two schedules relating to the Indigenous Land Corporation and the scheduling of land. This withdrawal was purely for timing reasons: to allow a particular land measurement to be clarified and an inquiry into the Indigenous Land Corporation measure by the Senate Legal and Constitutional Affairs Legislation Committee to proceed without delaying the bill unduly. Those measures will be intro­duced in a future bill, and this current bill should proceed without them. I commend the bill to the chamber.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a second time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>In Committee</title>
            <page.no>2056</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:42</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McLUCAS</name>
    <name.id>84L</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I table a supplementary explanatory memorandum and a revised supplementary explanatory memorandum relating to the government amendments to be moved to this bill. The memoranda were circulated in the chamber on 22 and 23 March 2011. I seek leave to move govern­ment amendments (1) through (4) on sheet BM387 together.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McLUCAS</name>
    <name.id>84L</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(1)   Clause 2, page 2 (table item 2), omit the table item, substitute:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2)   Schedule 2, heading, page 8 (lines 1 and 2), omit the heading, substitute:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Schedule 2—Disability support pension</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">[portability of disability support pension]</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3)   Schedule 2, item 7, page 9 (table item 2), after "1218AA", insert ", 1218AB".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">[portability of disability support pension]</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(4)   Schedule 2, page 9 (before line 12), before item 8, insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">7A After section 1218AA</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">1218AB Extended portability period for disability support pension(1)   The Secretary may, by written determination, extend the person's portability period for disability support pension if all of the following circumstances (the <inline font-style="italic">qualifying circumstances</inline>) exist:   (a)   the person is severely disabled (see subsection 23(4B));   (b)   the person is receiving disability support pension;   (c)   the person is wholly or substantially dependent on a family member of the person (see subsection 23(14));   (d)   the Secretary is satisfied that the person will be living with the family member of the person throughout the period of absence;   (e)   the family member of the person is engaged in employment in Australia for an employer immediately before the start of the period of absence;   (f)   the Secretary is satisfied that the family member of the person will be engaged in employment outside Australia for that employer throughout the period of absence.(2)   If the Secretary extends a person's portability period under subsection (1), the person's portability period for disability support pension, for the purposes of this Part, is the extended period.(3)   The Secretary may revoke the determination if any of the qualifying circumstances ceases to exist.(4)   A determination under subsection (1) is not a legislative instrument.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Note:   The heading to section 1218AA is altered by omitting "Extended" and substituting "Unlimited".</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill, as amended, agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill reported with amendments; report adopted.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Third Reading</title>
            <page.no>2057</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp></time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McLUCAS</name>
    <name.id>84L</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill be now read a third time.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a third time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Human Services Legislation Amendment Bill 2011</title>
          <page.no>2057</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body background="" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" style="" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint">
            <a type="Bill" href="r4500">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Human Services Legislation Amendment Bill 2011</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>First Reading</title>
            <page.no>2057</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp></time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McLUCAS</name>
    <name.id>84L</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill may proceed without formalities and be now read a first time.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a first time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>2057</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:46</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McLUCAS</name>
    <name.id>84L</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I table the revised explanatory memorandum to the bill and move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill be now read a second time.</para></quote>
<para>I seek leave to have the second reading speech incorporated in <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline>.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">The speech read as follows—</inline></para>
<quote><para class="block">I have great pleasure in introducing the <inline font-style="italic">Human Services Legislation Amendment Bill </inline> <inline font-style="italic">2011 </inline> which integrates Medicare Australia and Centrelink into the Department of Human Services.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill supports the Government's Service Delivery Reform agenda, which was announced by the former Minister for Human Services, the Hon Chris Bowen MP, in December 2009.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill continues a broader program of reform that commenced in 2004 when the previous government created the Department of Human Services to place greater emphasis on the way government delivers services to Australians.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In 2007, the Department's role was expanded to reflect responsibility for the develop ­ ment, delivery and co-ordination of government services, and development of service delivery policy.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The continued reform of service delivery through this Bill will create a better exper ­ ience for people and contribute to improved policy outcomes for government, particularly in areas such as economic and social participation, edu ­ cation, child care and health. These outcomes are in line with greater integration and cross-agency service provision initiatives within government.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Service Delivery Reform will significantly improve the way services are delivered by the Human Services portfolio. The progressive rollout of co-located offices will extend the portfolio's reach by providing one-stop-shops in more places. Increased self service options will allow people to manage their own affairs, including through expanded online services. People facing significant disadvantage or multiple complex challenges will be offered more intensive support through coordinated assistance with a case coordinator.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Effective and accessible service delivery is also an important element of the Govern ­ ment's efforts to build a more inclusive society. Service Delivery Reform will simplify people's dealings with the government and provide better support to those most in need.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">A key element of the reform is the integration of the portfolio into a single department of state. Bringing together back office functions will drive efficiency, reduce the cost of service delivery for government and free up staff for more frontline customer service delivery.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Schedule 1 of the Bill amends the <inline font-style="italic">Medicare Australia Act 1973. </inline> The primary purpose of the amendments is to integrate Medicare Australia into the Department of Human Services. The statutory office of the Chief Executive Officer of Medi ­ care Australia will be replaced by a new statu ­ tory position, the Chief Executive Medicare. The Chief Executive Medicare will be a Senior Executive Service officer in the Depart ­ ment of Human Services, who will have broad service delivery functions and will maintain statutory powers.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">These administrative changes do not alter the Government's commitment to Medicare. Medicare has provided Australians with afford ­ able, accessible and high quality health care since 1984. The integration of agencies will further extend the reach of the widely recognised and successful Medicare brand in the community. For example, through the co-location of services the number of shopfronts where Medicare services are available will double from 240 today to around 500.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill also amends the investigative powers of the Chief Executive Officer of Medicare Australia, in Part HD of the Medicare Australia Act. The investigative powers will not be extended in scope. The amendments will bring the provisions into line with the <inline font-style="italic">Crimes Act 1914 </inline> and reduce unnecessary notifications to patients whose medical records are seized but not examined in an investigation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Schedule 2 of the Bill amends the <inline font-style="italic">Com</inline> <inline font-style="italic">­</inline> <inline font-style="italic">monwealth Services Delivery Agency Act 1997. </inline> Schedule 2 replicates, for Centrelink, the governance changes made by Schedule 1 for Medicare Australia. Schedule 2 integrates Centrelink into the Department of Human Services and replaces the statutory office of Chief Executive Officer of Centrelink with a new statutory position, Chief Executive Centrelink. Like the Chief Executive Medicare, the Chief Executive Centrelink will be a Senior Executive Service officer in the Department of Human Services who will have broad service delivery functions and will maintain statutory powers.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Centrelink and Medicare Australia employees will become employees of the Department of Human Services under the machinery of government provisions in the <inline font-style="italic">Public Service Act 1999. </inline> Departmental employees will be able to assist both Chief E xecutives to perform their functions, enabling consolidation of back-office functions and greater focus on frontline service delivery.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Schedule 3 amends the <inline font-style="italic">Child Support (Registration and Collection) Act 1988. </inline> The amendments align the provisions for the appointment of the Child Support Registrar with the provisions for the appointment of the two Chief Executives.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill also contains transitional provisions to facilitate the transition from the current gov ­ ernance arrangements to the new integrated Department of Human Services, with no interruption to service delivery.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Finally, Schedule 4 makes consequential amendments to a range of legislation to reflect the new governance arrangements. References in legislation to Medicare Australia, Centrelink or the Chief Executive Officers are amended to refer to the Department of Human Services and the new Chief Executives.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The secrecy provisions will continue to operate in essentially the same way under the new governance arrangements for the portfolio. To bring this about, the conse ­ quential amendments include changes to various provisions in program legislation, for example the <inline font-style="italic">Health Insurance Act 1973 </inline> and the <inline font-style="italic">Social Security </inline> <inline font-style="italic">(Administration) Act 1999.</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government is conscious of the need to protect customer data, therefore only existing customer data sharing arrangements supported by legislation will continue. Importantly, any new sharing of customer data within the integrated Department of Human Services will occur only with customer consent. The Govern ­ ment is particularly aware of the trust Australians place in Medicare Australia's management of their clinical health informa ­ tion and the need for this information to be held separately and securely. For this reason clinical health information will be excluded from any data sharing under Service Delivery Reform.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The changes I have outlined today are an essential component of the Government's Service Delivery Reform agenda. Service Delivery Reform will transform the delivery of services by the Human Services portfolio and will provide better outcomes for generations of Australians. It will put people first in the design and delivery of services and will ensure services are delivered more effectively and efficiently, especially to people who need more intensive support and to those with complex needs. The <inline font-style="italic">Human Services Legislation Amendment Bill 2011 </inline> is a significant step towards achieving this vision.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:46</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak on the Human Services Legislation Amendment Bill 2011. This bill continues a program of reform that was initiated by the previous coalition government in 2004 when it created the Department of Human Services to place greater emphasis on the way government delivers services to Australians. This bill merges the back-end support services and some customer areas for Medicare and Centrelink, locating both within the Department of Human Services. The bill will achieve this through making amendments to the provisions of the Medicare Australia Act 1973 and the Commonwealth Services Delivery Agency Act 1997, which is more widely known as the Centrelink act.</para>
<para>It will abolish the statutory offices of the chief executive officer of Medicare Australia and the chief executive officer of Centrelink and create statutory offices of Chief Executive Medicare and Chief Executive Centrelink within the Department of Human Services. It will also abolish Medicare Australia and Centrelink as statutory agencies, and the existing functions that both of these agencies provide will be delivered by employees of the Department of Human Services in support of their chief executives.</para>
<para>The inquiry into the legislation by the Senate Community Affairs Legislation Committee did raise issues regarding privacy, and this bill brings in amendments to clarify the operation of program secrecy provisions after the restructure to ensure that there is substantially no change from previous arrangements with respect to the sharing of customer data. As a consequence, the bill will bring in new defined terms of 'Medicare programs' and 'Centrelink programs' to replace the current secrecy provisions which focus on the agencies as the basis for regulating information sharing.</para>
<para>The bill also amends the Child Support (Registration and Collection) Act 1988 to align the provisions for the appointment of the Child Support Registrar with the provisions for the appointment of Chief Executive Centrelink and Chief Executive Medicare. It also makes consequential amendments to a number of other acts that currently refer to the agencies or statutory authorities that will be abolished. The amendments to formalise the new structure of the Department of Human Services will be implemented on 1 July 2011 and transitional arrangements have been put in place to ensure no disruption in customer service delivery occurs consequent to these changes.</para>
<para>The bill also amends the investigative search and seizure provisions of part IID of the Medicare Australia Act. Many of these provisions were modelled on earlier versions of the corresponding provisions in the Crimes Act 1914. Because there have been amendments to the Crimes Act over time, some of the provisions in the Medicare Australia Act are no longer aligned with provisions in the Crimes Act. The main purpose of the proposed amendments to the investigative search and seizure provisions is to bring those provisions into closer alignment with the Crimes Act provisions.</para>
<para>The coalition believes in smaller and more streamlined government. This bill continues in that reforming tradition. This bill, which will consolidate the back-office operations of Medicare and Centrelink into a single department, should enhance service delivery from the perspective of the taxpayer with minimum change to the interaction of the clients of Centrelink or Medicare. Clearly, it is not the intention of the opposition to oppose this bill.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:50</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHERRY</name>
    <name.id>ZW4</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank the senator for his contribution on the Human Services Legislation Amendment Bill 2011.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a second time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Third Reading</title>
            <page.no>2060</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp></time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT (Senator Kroger)</name>
    <name.id>G1N</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>No amendments to the bills have been circulated. Before I call the minister to move the third reading, does any senator wish to have a committee stage on the bills to ask further questions or clarify further issues? If not, I call the minister.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHERRY</name>
    <name.id>ZW4</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill be now read a third time.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a third time.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Autonomous Sanctions Bill 2010</title>
          <page.no>2060</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body background="" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" style="" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint">
            <a type="Bill" href="r4432">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Autonomous Sanctions Bill 2010</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>2060</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:51</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator JOHNSTON</name>
    <name.id>00AON</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I stand to speak in support of the Autonomous Sanctions Bill 2010. The opposition supports the broad thrust of this standalone piece of legislation, which gives the government the ability to impose sanctions regimes without resorting to sometimes confusing and often messy legislation and regulations, such as in banking, customs regulations and other legislation related to the provisions of services and/or software. As I said, this is a standalone piece of legislation that brings together the Commonwealth's power to impose a vital diplomatic tool on certain circumstances arising in the international public policy arena. It also imposes standard penalties for those who contravene the provisions of the legislation and is consistent with the rules applied to the enforcement of UN Security Council sanctions.</para>
<para>I should pause to say that sanctions, and autonomous sanctions as set out in this legislation, are not the solution to every international and diplomatic problem. They are a very useful tool, but of course there are often unintended consequences with respect to the innocent populations within countries against which sanctions are imposed where they are deprived of certain necessities and other goods that people in Australia may wish to export. By way of a brief history, Zimbabwe, North Korea, Burma, Iraq, the former Republic of Yugoslavia and Fiji have all been the subject of Australian autonomous sanctions. North Korea has been subject to sanctions since 2006. As far back as 1992, the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia was the subject of sanctions.</para>
<para>As I have said, and speaking on behalf of the opposition, this is a useful diplomatic tool that is refined in this legislation and made more flexible and more effective. I pause to say that there have been some privacy concerns on the part of the opposition. The Senate committee resolved those to some extent. The Senate Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Legislation Committee went some long way towards setting out the problem and then indicated that it had been resolved in the legislation. I pause also to say that there appears to be no right of appeal or review with respect to an adjudication for exporters to countries that are the subject of sanction. The Defence Export Control Office is a classic example. An arbitrary decision by the Minister for Defence can inhibit the export of certain goods by Australian companies without them having any say or any right of review or appeal. That is a very unsatisfactory situation. I underline it simply to say that ministers need to engage much more with Australian industry on such matters. Having said all of that, I commend this bill to the Senate.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:54</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHERRY</name>
    <name.id>ZW4</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank the senator for his contribution and note the support of the opposition for this legislation. I also table a replacement explanatory memorandum relating to the Autonomous Sanctions Bill 2010. The memorandum takes account of recommendations by the Senate Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Legislation Committee.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a second time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Third Reading</title>
            <page.no>2061</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp></time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT (Senator Kroger)</name>
    <name.id>G1N</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>No amendments to the bill have been circulated. Before I call the minister to move the third reading, does any senator wish to have a committee stage on the bill to ask further questions or clarify further issues? If not, I call the minister.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHERRY</name>
    <name.id>ZW4</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill be now read a third time.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a third time.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Electronic Transactions Amendment Bill 2011</title>
          <page.no>2062</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body background="" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" style="" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint">
            <a type="Bill" href="r4510">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Electronic Transactions Amendment Bill 2011</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>2062</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:56</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Electronic Transactions Amendment Bill 2011 updates the Electronic Transactions Act 1999 to align the legislation with the relevant UN convention of 2005. The 1999 act imple­mented the UN Commission on International Trade Law, UNCITRAL, model law on electronic commerce of 1996. The intention of the model law is to provide a more secure environment for electronic commerce to remove legal obstacles to its acceptance. The principal effect of the act is to provide that transactions will not be invalid merely because they have been completed elect­ronically. Giving information in writing, providing a handwritten signature, producing a document in material form and recording or retaining information may all be done electronically.</para>
<para>The 2005 convention seeks to build on the model law in the light of the practical experiences of the past 15 years and in particular with respect to issues relating to the formation and performance of contracts between parties in different countries. However, it makes no substantive change to the law of contract.</para>
<para>Exemptions to this regime include negotiable instruments and documents of title where there is a risk of unauthorised duplication. Complex transactions, a defined term, will remain subject to their own regulatory and contractual rules. Regulations will provide that documents such as passports and statutory declarations should be in paper based form only.</para>
<para>This bill was drafted by the Australasian Parliamentary Counsel's Committee and was approved by the Standing Committee of Attorneys-General in May 2010. The parliaments of New South Wales and Tasmania have already passed the amendments, with the remainder of the states and territories expected to do so by the middle of the year.</para>
<para>The bill applies the changes proposed by the convention in respect of international contracts. It provides default rules for determining the time of dispatch and receipt of electronic communications for the pur­poses of formation and performance of a contract. It also clarifies the traditional contractual rules on formation in the context of electronic commerce to recognise auto­mated message systems. It clarifies rules about invitations to treat and determining the location of the parties and updates the electronic signature provisions. The con­vention rules exclude personal, domestic or household contracts from its regime. However, the bill does not make any such exclusion. The reason for this is that the act does not override the consumer protection provisions of the Competition and Consumer Act, formerly the Trade Practices Act. The public consultation process called for submissions on this issue but received none. This is not surprising, because the bill makes no substantive changes to contractual rules or remedies.</para>
<para>It should be noted that nothing in the convention or the bill affects the principle that contracting parties should be free to agree on matters effecting the formation and performance of a contract between them. People contracting in different countries may agree on the law that is to apply to their dealings. The convention rules only apply when the relevant law validly chosen by the parties or otherwise deemed to apply is that of a contracting state.</para>
<para>The coalition supports the bill. I commend it to the Senate.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a second time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Third Reading</title>
            <page.no>2063</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp></time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT (Senator Kroger)</name>
    <name.id>G1N</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>No amendments to the bill have been circulated. Before I call the minister to move the third reading, does any senator wish to have a committee stage on the bill to ask further questions or clarify further issues? If not, I call the minister.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHERRY</name>
    <name.id>ZW4</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill be now read a third time.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a third time.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE</title>
        <page.no>2063</page.no>
        <type>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Asylum Seekers</title>
          <page.no>2063</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:00</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ABETZ</name>
    <name.id>N26</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Leader of the Government in the Senate. Will the government acknow­ledge that the asylum-seeker policies it has pursued for the last three years have encouraged the people smugglers and have manifestly failed; that those failed policies have encouraged thousands of people to queue-jump to try to reach this country illegally at great risk to their lives; and that those failed policies have resulted in a hugely expanded onshore detention system which is now bursting at the seams and has become the scene of riots and mayhem? Will the government now apologise to the Australian people for its failure of leadership in dealing with this issue?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:01</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CHRIS EVANS</name>
    <name.id>AX5</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The simple answer is no. There is no doubt that we face a range of challenges in relation to unlawful people movement through the region. This is a problem that Australia shares in the region with countries such as Malaysia and Indonesia, and it is something that we have resolved to tackle in a regional context because we know that we have to work together to address these issues. It was a lesson that the previous government learnt as well about needing regional cooperation in order to deal with these issues.</para>
<para>I note in passing that this is a now huge issue around the world. We are seeing Europe responding to large numbers of people fleeing North Africa; in fact, people are demanding a review of the EU arrangements in terms of border control. There are huge issues in the United States and Canada. Unauthorised people movement and people seeking asylum is a huge issue for our century as transportation becomes more available.</para>
<para>So I do not accept the proposition that was put by Senator Abetz. The government is working with countries in the region to try and address the challenge of unlawful movement. We do have a huge issue in that many people are seeking refuge and fleeing persecution, and we as a region have to work to tackle those challenges. A lot of work has been done in recent times through the Bali process, which we have reinvigorated with Indonesia, and the announcement the other day regarding a framework of cooperation with Malaysia is part of that regional response to an issue we are all dealing with.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:03</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ABETZ</name>
    <name.id>N26</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Didn't the minister himself rule out ever reopening the detention centre on Manus Island, saying it would be a return to the failed strategy of the Pacific solution, which he also said was a cynical, costly and ultimately unsuccessful exercise? Now that the government is seeking to reopen Manus Island and enter a stopgap, one-for-five refugee swap with Malaysia, will the minister concede that he was wrong and that his failed policies have been a costly mistake?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:03</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CHRIS EVANS</name>
    <name.id>AX5</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I certainly stand by my critique of the Pacific solution. I think it was cynical, and it was costly. It is worth remembering that the people who were subject to the Pacific solution are now settled in Australia and New Zealand; the vast majority have settled here or in New Zealand. The Howard government did a deal with New Zealand to take a large number of people off the island of Nauru in order to have political cover for the fact that the Pacific solution had failed; it was cynical, it was costly and the reality is that people were resettled in Australia. The Howard government did not like to front up to that, they did not like to publicise that, but the reality is that those people were settled in Australia. So the Pacific solution was no solution. We need regional cooperation, we need the support of our neighbours, and that is what this government is focused on. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:04</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ABETZ</name>
    <name.id>N26</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>In view of the government's failed and chaotic approach on border protection, does the government still intend to proceed with opening its detention centre at Pontville in Tasmania? If so, will the minister confirm that Pontville will only operate for six months, as promised and, if so, when will this six-month period commence?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:05</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CHRIS EVANS</name>
    <name.id>AX5</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I am advised that the claims that Senator Abetz has been making around the Pontville-Brighton detention centre proposal are not correct. The government's commitment is to a short-term facility at Pontville. The immigration department is currently concluding relevant discussions around approval processes before further building and development of the site—which, as you know, is a former Army barracks—can continue.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Osama bin Laden</title>
          <page.no>2064</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:06</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FORSHAW</name>
    <name.id>656</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to Senator Evans, representing the Prime Minister. Can the minister advise the Senate about the government's response to the death of Osama bin Laden?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:06</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CHRIS EVANS</name>
    <name.id>AX5</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Forshaw for his question and his interest in these matters. Senators will be aware that on 2 May President Obama announced that Osama bin Laden, the leader of the international terrorist group al-Qaeda, had been killed in an operation conducted by United States forces in Pakistan. The Australian government very much welcomes this news, as I am sure the Senate does; it represents a great blow against international terrorism. The Prime Minister has spoken with President Obama to pass on Australia's thanks and gratitude to the United States and to their military, who carried out the operation.</para>
<para>Osama bin Laden was directly responsible for terrible acts of violence against innocent people, and he inspired acts of violence by others. Under his command, al-Qaeda planned and carried out the 11 September 2001 attacks in New York and Washington, in which nearly 3,000 innocent people were murdered. Bin Laden's al-Qaeda also carried out or was involved with many other terrorist atrocities in which Australians were killed and wounded. Australia remembers those who lost their lives in those attacks, and they include those in Bali on two occasions; in London; in Mumbai; in Jakarta; and, of course, in New York.</para>
<para>Australia's fight against terrorism does not end with bin Laden's death. We must remain vigilant against the threat posed by al-Qaeda and the groups it has inspired. We know that al-Qaeda in the Afghanistan-Pakistan border regions is not the only terrorist threat that the international community faces. Australia will continue to support the counterterrorism efforts of the United States and our partners. We remain committed to ensuring that Afghanistan never again becomes a safe haven for terrorism. This work has already cost Australian lives, and Australians remain at risk, but it is vital and we will continue the mission in Afghanistan.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:08</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FORSHAW</name>
    <name.id>656</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr President, I ask a supplementary question. Thank you, Minister. Just picking up on that last point of your answer, what do the recent developments mean for Australia's commitment in Afghanistan?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:08</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CHRIS EVANS</name>
    <name.id>AX5</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Australia's mission remains un­changed. The government's strong view is that it is in our national interest to be in Afghanistan with the United States and 46 other members of the international community acting under a United Nations mandate. Australia has a responsibility to fight international terrorism and ensure stability in Afghanistan. Australian forces are there to ensure Afghanistan does not again become an operating base from which terrorists recruit, train and launch attacks against us and our allies, as it was under the Taliban dictatorship. Australian forces are there at the request of the government of Afghanistan and operate as part of the United Nations mandated International Security Assistance Force. Training and mentoring the Afghan national security forces will help create the conditions for an irreversible transition of security responsibility. As the Prime Minister has said, Australia will continue to support Afghanistan in some form through this decade at least. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:09</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FORSHAW</name>
    <name.id>656</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr President, I ask a further supple­mentary question. Minister, could you indicate what the recent developments mean for the threat posed by al-Qaeda and other terrorist groups?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:10</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CHRIS EVANS</name>
    <name.id>AX5</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Bin Laden's death is a considerable setback for al-Qaeda and international terrorism. However, it does not mean an end to the threat of global terror posed by al-Qaeda and affiliated terrorist groups. The Australian government will continue to make proper preparations in the face of those threats. The government has issued a travel bulletin indicating that there is a risk of reprisals and that people need to be careful about their personal security and avoid large gatherings of people associated with the aftermath of this event. The government has not increased our threat alert either onshore or offshore at this stage, but people do need to be very wary. Australians should continue to monitor the DFAT website when travelling for updates to that travel advice, and of course we always strongly recom­mend that Australian travellers register with the DFAT website. The threat remains from international terrorism, and we continue to urge Australians to be cautious and take due precautions. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Asylum Seekers</title>
          <page.no>2066</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:11</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is directed to the Minister representing the Minister for Justice, Senator Ludwig. I refer the minister to the recent protests at the Villawood detention centre in Sydney. Can the minister explain why it took the Australian Federal Police 11 days to detain the rooftop protesters involved in the Villawood riots? Isn't the government's inability to deal with the protest emblematic of the fact that the government has lost control of the asylum seeker issue just as it has lost control of Australia's borders?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:11</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LUDWIG</name>
    <name.id>84N</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Brandis for his question. Can I indicate at the outset that the government will not tolerate riots in immigration detention centres. On 4 May 2011, the AFP arrested and charged seven people as a result of the investigation into the disturbances at Villawood. Six people were arrested at Silverwater Metropolitan Remand and Reception Centre with cooperation from New South Wales Corrective Services person­nel and transported to the AFP's Sydney offices. Of course, all were charged with a variety of offences as follows: some with affray and some with destroying or damaging property. The government will, of course, continue to take a hard line against anyone who engages in violence in the immigration detention network—all agencies. While the detention service provider has incident management plans in place to ensure appropriate responses to disturbances at immigration detention facilities, any response, of course, is under­pinned by the fact that immigration detention is administrative, not punitive, in nature. The department has a well-established relationship with law enforcement agencies.</para>
<para>In terms of the specifics, I will seek further particulars about the time line and the chronology of events, which may assist Senator Brandis. I am advised that, of course, the department has met with senior representatives from all state and territory police—it is about ensuring that we do maintain law and order within the detention centres—and met with the Australian Federal Police on 19 April 2011. I am advised that that was a productive meeting and part of the routine and ongoing engagement between the department and law enforcement officers to ensure that issues such as that are dealt with expeditiously and early, can I say.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:13</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr President, I ask a supplementary question. Is the minister aware that, while the government dithered in its response to the Villawood protest, it took the New South Wales police just three hours to detain rooftop protesters at the nearby office of the Minister for Immigration and Citizenship, Minister Bowen, in Sydney? Minister, can you explain why it took the Australian Federal Police 11 days to return order to Villawood while it took the New South Wales Police Force only three hours to restore order at a nearby and similar protest?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:14</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LUDWIG</name>
    <name.id>84N</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Department of Immigration and Citizenship is responsible for jurisdictional responses and investi­gations within and the management of immigration detention centres, IDCs, and alternative places of detention, APODs. Serco has responsibility for responding to instances within the IDCs. I just want to ensure that the facts are on the table about the circumstances. This includes trained negotiators and extraction teams. If Serco is unable to maintain good order at an IDC, Serco then may request police assistance, which is then assessed in accordance with the circumstances. Within an IDC, those are the processes and procedures that are adopted. The opposition are seeking to compare and contrast it with another incident outside an IDC, but I think it is sensible to say that these are the circumstances of how and when responses are undertaken. So it is Serco within the IDC and then, if it is a matter that requires AFP— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:15</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRANDIS</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr President, I ask a further supplementary question. Minister, does it not follow from your previous answer that your government considers that an 11-day long rooftop protest at a detention centre and the destruction of numerous buildings at that detention centre is consistent with maintaining good order? Is this not just another example of your government's inability to manage the immigration system when a Liberal government in New South Wales is able to enforce and police a protest?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:16</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LUDWIG</name>
    <name.id>84N</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I reject the proposition contained within that question. It is a comparison that only Senator Brandis would or could make. The government has made it clear that engaging in inappropriate or criminal behaviour whilst in an immigration detention centre will not be tolerated. Contingency plans are in place to respond to instances at immigration detention facilities. The immigration department works actively with Serco to review security staffing system procedures and infrastructure and the minister has already announced an independent review into these instances. In terms of the broader issue, Serco, as the detention service provider, is required to have appropriate security and emergency arrangements in place with local law enforcement agencies and the response times, as I indicated in my primary answer. I will certainly get back to you with a chronology of those events. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Budget</title>
          <page.no>2067</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:17</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HURLEY</name>
    <name.id>e4u</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister for Finance and Deregulation, Senator Wong. Can the minister advise the Senate on the importance of maintaining sound financial management?</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">Opposition senators interjecting— </inline></para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:18</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>You can see how allergic those opposite are these days to the words 'sound financial management'. There is no Peter Costello over there. This is a very different Liberal opposition, one that would be in deficit in every year of the forward estimates were it in government and one that delivered an $11 billion black hole in the last election. The Treasurer will hand down his fourth budget tonight and, as we have said, Mr President—</para>
<para class="italic">Opposition senators interjecting—</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>7L6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>If people want to debate issues, the time for that is after question time.</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>As I said, tonight the Treasurer will hand down his fourth budget. This is a budget that will get us back in the black, get more Australians in jobs and spread the opportunities of the mining boom. It will be a budget that is marked by its commitment to sound financial management, a budget that recognises the challenges of the mining boom and leverages its opportunities for the benefit of all Australians. This sound financial management will be evident in the choices that we have made in this budget and in the fastest fiscal consolidation that we have seen since the 1960s. As we know, Mr President—</para>
<para class="italic">Opposition senators interjecting—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Brandis</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Nine Labor budget deficits in a row!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>7L6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The time for debating this is after question time.</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Brandis is so concerned about budget deficits he perhaps ought to speak to the economic spokespeople on his side who are presiding over a complete mess when it comes to their fiscal position: an $11 billion black hole in their election policies and a party that would be in deficit in every year of the forward estimates. We are very focused in this budget on our priorities, on the fiscal discipline that is required, on training the Australian workforce and on lifting participation across our economy. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:20</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HURLEY</name>
    <name.id>e4u</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr President, I ask a supplementary question. Can the minister outline to the Senate the priorities which the government has worked towards in preparing the budget?</para>
<para class="italic">Opposition senators interjecting—</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>7L6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The time for debating the issue, if people wish to debate it, is after question time. I remind senators of that.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:20</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The government has made its priorities clear. This is about getting us back into the black, getting more Australians into jobs and spreading the opportunities of the mining boom, and we will outline a budget which sets out a clear path to the return to surplus, which we are committed to. But what will be interesting to see this week in this parliament is whether the opposition are prepared to apply the same discipline to themselves that they are asserting the government should adhere to. I think we should be running a bit of a wager as to whether they will front up. I wager they will not front up and do what they say they will do. Those opposite might want to know that your shadow Treasurer, Mr Hockey, has committed to bringing the budget back to surplus on your figures by next year. That is what Mr Hockey has said, but he has not done the numbers to work out how. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:22</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HURLEY</name>
    <name.id>e4u</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr President, I ask a further supplementary question. Can the minister further outline to the Senate any alternative approaches that are a threat to sound economic management?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:22</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The threat to sound economic manage­ment is those opposite, in particular their so-called economic team. As I said, it is interesting the shadow Treasurer has committed the opposition—I bet this was without a shadow cabinet meeting—to returning a surplus by 2011-12. That is after they have climbed out of their $11 billion black hole. So he beat his chest and said, 'We'll make the hard yards.' When pressed he said, 'I don't know what the numbers are.' Well, he will know tonight—and I will bet those opposite will still not be able to work out how to do it. The problem those on the other side have is that Joe Hockey has led them down the garden path; he has made a promise that they will never be able to live up to. How embarrassing for the party that used to be the party of fiscal discipline—now the party of a budget black hole.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Asylum Seekers</title>
          <page.no>2069</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:23</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CASH</name>
    <name.id>I0M</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister for Immigration and Citizenship, Senator Carr.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Wong</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>He is not the minister; he is the minister representing the minister!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CASH</name>
    <name.id>I0M</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The minister repre­senting, thank you. I refer to a report in the <inline font-style="italic">Daily Telegraph</inline> on 5 May 2011 in relation to the homemade bomb found at the Villawood detention centre which stated:</para>
<para>Villawood staff said the fire and bomb was reported to the department but no action was taken because it was classed as a minor incident.</para>
<para>If a fire resulting from a bomb is considered a minor incident generating no action, what would the minister consider a major incident that required action?</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:24</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CARR</name>
    <name.id>AW5</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr President, I thank Senator Cash for her question. Following a small fire on 19 March 2011, New South Wales police took possession of what they have referred to as a bomb. Importantly, the department did act appropriately in calling the fire brigade in the first instance and then alerting the police, who are now investigating the incident. Whether the device was actually a bomb or not is a matter for police investigation.</para>
<para>The fire was discovered and extinguished by Serco officers at 3.20 am on Saturday, 19 March 2011. Local emergency services were immediately called. The New South Wales police attended at approximately—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Cash</name>
    <name.id>I0M</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr President, I rise on a point of order going to relevance. While I appreciate the minister's information in relation to what occurred at the detention centre, I am not asking about that. I am asking: what type of incident needs to occur for this government to consider it a major incident?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Chris Evans</name>
    <name.id>AX5</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr President, on the point of order. It is clearly appropriate for Senator Carr, as a representing minister, to provide information from the brief he has from the responsible minister. It is directly on the topic that Senator Cash addressed to him. She has two supplementary questions to follow up with if she wishes further inform­ation. But he has been directly on the topic, providing what information he has about the incident, and it is quite outrageous to suggest that he is not being relevant. If there are other matters that are not covered in his primary answer, the senator has the opportunity to ask two supplementary questions. Senator Carr is being as helpful as he can be by providing the information that is supplied to him.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>7L6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>There is no point of order.</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CARR</name>
    <name.id>AW5</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr President, I have been asked by Senator Cash about an incident that occurred at the centre on 19 March 2011. I am providing information. She has sought to rely on a newspaper report of the allegations as to what occurred on this occasion. I have provided information to the Senate on the basis of the information that has been provided to me by the minister. What I can indicate is that the New South Wales police are making inquiries into the nature of the events that occurred and that no person of interest in relation to the incident has been identified at this stage. The department advised the minister's office of the fire at the time but not of the discovery of the device or that the police had taken it for examination as possible evidence. In terms of what the senator seeks to assert is a matter of priority, that is entirely hypothetical.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:28</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CASH</name>
    <name.id>I0M</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr President, I ask a supplementary question. I refer to the comments made by the immigration minister, Chris Bowen, on Sydney commercial radio on 4 May 2011 that he was not aware that a homemade bomb had been found at the Villawood detention centre one month before riots at the centre which resulted in nine buildings being gutted by fire. Why was the minister not aware of the homemade bomb and what steps has the minister taken to ensure he remains fully informed on the vital issues within his portfolio?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:28</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CARR</name>
    <name.id>AW5</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I have indicated to Senator Cash that this is a matter of ongoing police inquiry as to whether or not it was actually a bomb, and that is a matter where we will wait for police advice.</para>
<para>In terms of the radio interview, the minister has already expressed his view that it was unacceptable that he was not informed of the discovery of the device, and he has made his concerns very clear to the department about the discovery of this homemade incendiary. The minister has instructed the secretary of the department to investigate why he was not informed and ensure that this does not happen in the future. There is not much more I can add to assist Senator Cash in that matter.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:30</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CASH</name>
    <name.id>I0M</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr President, I ask a further supplementary question. How does the government expect the Australian people to have any faith in their so-called border protection policies if the minister was not even aware of a bomb in a detention centre until he was told by a talkback radio host?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:30</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CARR</name>
    <name.id>AW5</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>What I have indicated is that whether this device was actually a bomb or something other than that is the subject of an ongoing police inquiry. The fire that was the subject of the incident itself was discovered and extinguished by Serco officers at 3.20 in the morning. The local emergency services were called immediately. The New South Wales police attended at 4 am and they took possession of what is now referred to as a bomb and returned later in daylight hours to take photographs. No person of interest has actually been identified at this stage as a result of the police inquiry. The department did not advise the minister at the time and the department secretary has been instructed to find out why not.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Asylum Seekers</title>
          <page.no>2070</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:30</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON-YOUNG</name>
    <name.id>I0U</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Minister for Immigration, Senator Carr. The Malaysian High Commissioner today declared that Australia cannot simply dictate which people will be sent to Malaysia under the Gillard government's Malaysian solution. Will the Malaysian government officials come to Australia to select which asylum seekers they will take or will it simply be conducted through paperwork? How will the Malaysian government decide who is sent to their country?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:31</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CARR</name>
    <name.id>AW5</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank the senator for her question. The government has announced that the Australian and Malaysian governments have committed to enter into a landmark transfer agreement under the regional cooperative framework and that this process undermines the efforts of people smugglers to seek to encourage people to undertake very risky journeys to Australia. This in fact is a new initiative to ensure that we are able to take all the necessary steps to highlight the extra­ordinary dangers of undertaking such a voyage and to indicate to people that this is a counterproductive move and is unlikely to produce the results that people are looking for in terms of finding settlement here, because people will be sent to Malaysia, from which many of them come originally, and will be placed at the back of the queue.</para>
<para>What we are seeing for the first time in these arrangements is that the UNHCR will be directly involved—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Bob Brown</name>
    <name.id>QD4</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr President, I raise a point of order. The minister was asked directly whether Malaysian officials would come to Australia. The question needs to be answered directly as well.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Ludwig</name>
    <name.id>84N</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>On the point of order, Mr President, Senator Carr has been answering the question. It is a complex issue to describe in detail but Senator Carr has been working through that detail quite specifically in dealing with the issue that he has been asked to respond to. I submit that there is no point of order in this respect.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>7L6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Carr, I draw your attention to the fact that there is 50 seconds remaining on the clock to answer the question that has been asked by Senator Hanson-Young.</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CARR</name>
    <name.id>AW5</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I have indicated that for the first time the UNHCR will be involved in the processes involving the Malaysian government. The reports today that the Malaysian High Commissioner is wanting the right to refuse people entry are inaccurate and misleading. While the government cannot comment on the specifics of current diplomatic negotiations, the reports that appeared today are incorrect. What I would have thought the Greens would be particularly interested in is that, for the first time, the UNHCR is involved in terms of the Malaysian government, a point which the UNHCR have made and indicated is a matter of some significance to them. The public comments by their spokesperson have highlighted that fact. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:34</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON-YOUNG</name>
    <name.id>I0U</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr President, I have a supplementary question. Do we take it, then, that Malaysia will not refuse anybody who is sent to Malaysia under this agreement put forward by the Australian government?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:34</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CARR</name>
    <name.id>AW5</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I can indicate that I am advised that the reports today suggesting that the Malaysian High Commissioner is wanting the right to refuse people entry are inaccurate and misleading. While the government is not in a position to negotiate in public with the government of Malaysia, what I can say is that the reports published today are in­accurate. I remind the senator that UNHCR regional representative Richard Charles says that this is a bilateral agreement that has been negotiated within the broader regional cooperation framework with the involvement of the UNHCR, the involvement of the IOM, the International Organisation for Migration and, we hope, the involvement of other im­portant actors as well, including non-government organisations. So it is an agree­ment between countries that are actively involved with refugee issues and that commonly face a refugee displacement problem. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:35</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON-YOUNG</name>
    <name.id>I0U</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My final supplementary question to the minister is, if Malaysia have not requested the ability to buy into the process of selecting who will be taken to Malaysia, what rights have they reserved and when will we see the signed MUA?</para>
<para class="italic">Honourable senators interjecting—</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON-YOUNG</name>
    <name.id>I0U</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>MOU. I have always been a unionist at heart. We know that the heart of the union movement is in the Greens.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:36</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CARR</name>
    <name.id>AW5</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I have made it perfectly clear that, on the advice that I have, the reports in today's press are inaccurate and misleading; that the government of Australia and the government of Malaysia will work towards achieving a new MOU and in the course of those negotiations will continue to work with the UNHCR and the International Organi­sation for Migration. These are major new initiatives, major new developments, in regard to the way the refugee conventions are being treated within our region. I would have thought that the Greens would acknowledge that and appreciate the very, very important and significant developments that have occurred.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Asylum Seekers</title>
          <page.no>2072</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:37</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator IAN MACDONALD</name>
    <name.id>YW4</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is also to the Minister representing the Minister for Immigration and Citizenship. I wonder if the minister could advise the Senate of the date on which the new five-for-one proposal to take 4,000 asylum seekers from Malaysia in return for 800 sent to Malaysia will take effect?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:38</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CARR</name>
    <name.id>AW5</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I have already indicated that the government is in the process of developing the MOU with the Malaysian government. There has been a joint statement already issued between the Prime Minister of Australia and the Prime Minister of Malaysia at the weekend. What I can say, Senator Macdonald, is that it is extraordinary hypocrisy on behalf of the Liberal Party to be arguing the case about increasing the level of support—</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>7L6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Carr, I draw your attention to the question. You have one minute 25 seconds remaining to address the question that was asked by Senator Macdonald.</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CARR</name>
    <name.id>AW5</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>What I can indicate to you, Mr President, is the extraordinary hypocrisy for the Liberal Party to be arguing the case about increasing the refugee intake, because at the last election—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Brandis</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr President, the minister is flagrantly defying your ruling. You pulled him up when he went completely away from the answer to the question and started politically attacking the Liberal Party. You pulled him up and he has treated your ruling with complete contempt.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>7L6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Ludwig.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Ludwig</name>
    <name.id>84N</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>There is no point of order in that, in that Senator Brandis simply wants to re-agitate an issue. Of course, that gives him using a point of order as a platform to challenge your ruling. This matter is a matter for the President and the President has ruled on the matter and therefore there is no point of order.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>7L6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I had drawn the minister's attention quite clearly to the fact that at that stage he had I think it was one minute 20 seconds to answer the question. The minister now has one minute 16 seconds. I draw your attention to the question.</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CARR</name>
    <name.id>AW5</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I am delighted at the prospect of being able to answer this question, Mr President, because in the last election the Liberal Party, who now complain about increasing our humanitarian intake, proposed to increase to 15,000—and they were prepared to double that number in their sleazy deal before the last election.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Ian Macdonald</name>
    <name.id>YW4</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr President, I rise on a point of order—that of relevance. My question, as you have accepted and twice pulled the minister up, was clearly about the date upon which this took effect. It did not ask anything about the Liberal Party; it did not ask anything about philosophies or policies. I simply want to know the date on which this will take effect.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>7L6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I had at the one minute 16 seconds mark drawn the minister's attention to the question. The minister still has one minute and one second remaining to answer the question.</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CARR</name>
    <name.id>AW5</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Mr President. What I have indicated is that the government will finalise the agreement with Malaysia in the coming weeks, depending on resolution of certain operational matters. I also indicated that it was a bit rich to argue the toss about increasing the humanitarian target, which we are quite proud of, when the Liberal Party during the last election sought to increase it to 15,000 and double it in their conversations when they were trying to secure a majority in the House of Repre­sentatives—a proposition which would have cost $3 billion. That was the claim when they were discussing the matter with Mr Wilkie—$3 billion to get one vote. And they want to argue the toss about increasing slightly the refugee intake numbers that we are doing at the moment! We see here a little of hypocrisy even by Liberal Party standards that sinks to new depths.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Brandis</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr President, I rise on a point of order. There is hardly any time left now for the minister to address the specific question that he was asked; that is: when will it begin? The minister has persistently and wilfully disobeyed your ruling in breach of standing order 203. A ask you, Mr President, to deal with the minister under standing order 203.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>7L6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, you have six seconds remaining to answer the question.</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CARR</name>
    <name.id>AW5</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I have indicated to you, Mr President, that the answer to the question is that we will finalise the agreement with Malaysia in coming weeks and that the Liberal Party are nothing more than hypocrites on this matter. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:42</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator IAN MACDONALD</name>
    <name.id>YW4</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr President, I ask a supplementary question. I thank the minister for saying initially that they were in the process of developing arrangements and later then saying that it would be a number of weeks, dependent upon certain operational matters. Thank you, Minister. What this really means is that we have no idea—it could be weeks, months, years. So I asked the minister: what additional steps is the government proposing to stop the flood of boat arrivals who will try to get in in that interregnum—that one week, three months, two years or whatever it is—until this arrangement is finalised?<inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:43</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CARR</name>
    <name.id>AW5</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The government will continue all its efforts to secure Australia's borders and to ensure that we treat people properly in that process. We are indicating to people who now are contemplating being in the hands of the people smugglers that it is not in their interest to engage in that action by seeking to travel to Australia by boat. We will settle the outstanding matters with Malaysia in the signing of an MOU very, very quickly. We are also in the process of engaging in ongoing talks with the Papua New Guinea government about the establishment of an assessment centre in that country. We have a range of measures, therefore, in place where we are seeking to deal with these matters in a firm but very fair approach to ensure that Australia is able to secure, within its inter­national treaty obligations, proper assess­ments of people seeking to come to this country by irregular movements.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:44</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator IAN MACDONALD</name>
    <name.id>YW4</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr President, I ask a further supplementary question. I thank the minister. I note that the minister would not assure the Senate that Malaysia would take whoever was sent to them, when Senator Hanson-Young asked, so I asked the minister: why is it that the Malaysian gov­ernment can decide who comes to their country and the circumstances in which they come but the Australian government cannot?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:45</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CARR</name>
    <name.id>AW5</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>What I can draw Senator Macdonald's attention to is—and I am not quite sure what the nature of the question was—is the fact that the government will be working with the government of Malaysia to ensure that we are able to treat people properly and, as the UNHCR has indicated, that the nature of this agreement, a bilateral agreement, has been negotiated within the broader regional context with the involve­ment of the UNHCR and with the involve­ment of the International Organi­sation for Migration. This is the first time this has happened with respect to Malaysia and we hope that there will be other important actors as well, which will include non-government organisations. So there is a real opportunity here, an opportunity to deal with these issues in a humane and fair but firm way to ensure that the agreement between this government and other countries involved in refugee issues are treated properly. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DISTINGUISHED VISITORS</title>
        <page.no>2074</page.no>
        <type>DISTINGUISHED VISITORS</type>
      </debateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:46</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>7L6</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I draw the attention of honourable senators to the presence in the chamber of a parliamentary delegation from the National Assembly of Malawi, led by the speaker, the Rt Hon. Henry Chimunthu Banda. On behalf of all senators, I wish you a warm welcome to Australia and in particular to the Senate. With the concurrence of honourable senators, I ask the speaker to take a seat on the floor of the Senate.</para>
<para>Honourable senators: Hear, hear!</para>
<para> <inline font-style="italic">Henry Chimunthu Banda</inline> <inline font-style="italic"> was then seated accordingly.</inline></para>
</speech>
</debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE</title>
        <page.no>2074</page.no>
        <type>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Telecommunications</title>
          <page.no>2074</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:46</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McEWEN</name>
    <name.id>e5e</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister for Broad­band, Communications and the Digital Economy, Senator Conroy. Can the minister inform the Senate about the funding that was announced on the weekend to provide free set-top boxes to pensioners under the government's digital television switchover program?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:47</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CONROY</name>
    <name.id>3L6</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator McEwen for her question. As I announced on Sunday, the government is determined that no pensioners are left in the dark as a result of the switch to digital-only television. The government makes no apology what­soever for providing support to pensioners—who have worked hard all their lives and contributed to our society—to ensure that they are helped to convert to and get the full benefit of this new technology. The household assistance scheme has been a stunning success. We have converted over 38,000—</para>
<para class="italic">Honourable senators interjecting—</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>7L6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>When there is silence, we will proceed. Senator Conroy, continue.</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CONROY</name>
    <name.id>3L6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>We have converted over 38,000 pensioner homes for digital television across regional South Australia and Victoria in the 18 months since it commenced the Mildura-Sunraysia region. Under the scheme, a government contracted installer visits the household and installs and demonstrates a set-top box specifically chosen to meet the needs of the elderly or those with a disability. Installers also conduct any cabling and antenna work where necessary. Centrelink performs checks to ensure the installations are working properly.</para>
<para>I note that those opposite supported our amendments to the Social Security Act in 2009 to enable this scheme. In fact, Senator Minchin said at the time, ‘For eligible households, such as pensioners, this measure will provide some certainty about their capacity to access and utilise the equipment needed to deal with digital pictures’. In the other place, the member for Mayo— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:49</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McEWEN</name>
    <name.id>e5e</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr President, I ask a supplementary question. Can the minister advise the Senate who will be eligible to receive a free conversion to digital television under the household assistance scheme? How is the scheme operated?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:50</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CONROY</name>
    <name.id>3L6</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>In the other place, the member for Mayo actually answered this question. He said that it is right that the government does help Australians, particularly those at the lower end of the income scale, to switch over to digital television. So there is the hypocrisy. Perhaps Mr Hockey did not bother to phone Senator Minchin. Perhaps he did not bother to phone the member for Mayo, before he made his comments, because those opposite, including Mr Hockey, voted for this program.</para>
<para>The scheme provides essential practical in-home assistance to some of the most vulnerable people in our society, those people who may have no other means of support, to adapt to what can be a confusing new technology for some. A household is eligible to receive assistance under the scheme where at least— (<inline font-style="italic">time expired</inline><inline font-style="italic">)</inline>.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:51</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McEWEN</name>
    <name.id>e5e</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>As a further supplementary question: can the minister also inform the Senate on the progress of the digital switchover in those areas already converted and what benefits are being provided to viewers as a result of the switchover program?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:51</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CONROY</name>
    <name.id>3L6</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I am delighted to inform the Senate that the Gillard government's digital switchover program is making a real difference to the lives of people in regional Australia where we have commenced switching off analog TV. One of the key features of the government's digital switchover program is that we have finally brought viewers in regional and remote Australia access to the same number of TV channels as are available in capital cities—something long thought impossible and certainly never attempted by those opposite. Last week we turned off the analog signals in regional Victoria. More than 455,000 households across the state have made the move to digital-only television. We have had less than 100 complaints in the five days since the switch. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Asylum Seekers</title>
          <page.no>2076</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:53</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ABETZ</name>
    <name.id>N26</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Prime Minister. I refer the minister to the so-called 'Malaysian deal'. Can the minister guarantee that unaccompanied minors arriving in an unauthorised fashion in Australia will be exempted from the Malaysian deal?</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Cameron</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>You hypocrite!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>7L6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Cameron, you will need to withdraw that.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Cameron</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I withdraw.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:54</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CHRIS EVANS</name>
    <name.id>AX5</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr President, I can say that I understand that the Prime Minister has indicated that the details of the arrangements for Malaysia remain to be finalised. When asked about those issues she indicated that that was one of the issues that would be reflected upon when those arrangements were finalised. So that agreement and the MOU will reflect the finalised arrangements in relation to returns to Malaysia. I might point out, though, that it was the Liberal Party that used to detain children in detention centres. This government has ensured that children are not in detention centres but are in alternative arrangements, where they are allowed to live with their families. I think we all support that as a much more humane and appropriate way of dealing with children.</para>
<para>Can I indicate that the minister has also been seeking to make alternative arrangements, particularly for families, with the support of community groups, like the Red Cross, to ensure even better arrange­ments. Given that we are dealing with larger numbers of both accompanied and unaccom­panied minors, we have been looking for better alternatives than existed preciously, and I would just like to acknowledge the work of those community groups, churches, the Red Cross and others who sought to support the government in providing better alternatives for unauthorised arrival families which have children and of course for unaccompanied minors. In terms of the primary point of Senator Abetz's question, those details will be finalised as part of the MOU.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:56</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ABETZ</name>
    <name.id>N26</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr President, I ask a supplementary question. I remind the minister that the most children in detention were under the Keating govern­ment and now the Gillard government. I ask the minister: are there any fundamental non-negotiable preconditions for minors and women in relation to the Malaysian deal?</para>
<para class="italic">Opposition senators interjecting—</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>7L6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Abetz, will you just go back? I missed the last part of your question because people on your side were trying to talk over you.</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ABETZ</name>
    <name.id>N26</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Mr President. If I may, I will repeat the question and remind the minister that it has been the Keating and Gillard governments that have had the most children in detention. But what non-negotiable preconditions have been sought from the Malaysians to ensure that minors are protected? It is all well to talk about 'the deal', but surely there must be some fundamental preconditions that are non-negotiable. Are there any such preconditions that have been put to the Malaysians?</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:57</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CHRIS EVANS</name>
    <name.id>AX5</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>As I said, Mr President, I did receive some advice, which was that we will not be taking lessons in compassion from the Liberal Party. Senator, your record on children in detention is an appalling one. Even John Howard was finally embarrassed out of that position. So do not try to lecture me on compassion for children. We actually put in place better arrangements for children so that they receive proper care. What is absolutely central to the arrangement with Malaysia is that the government has made it very clear that there be no refoulement of those who are transferred under the scheme.</para>
<para class="italic">Opposition senators interjecting—</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CHRIS EVANS</name>
    <name.id>AX5</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator, do you want to withdraw that? You do not want to withdraw that. Senator, that stands as a mark about you. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:58</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ABETZ</name>
    <name.id>N26</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr President, I ask a further supplementary question. If there are no non-negotiable preconditions in relations to minors, can I ask: are there any non-negotiable prec­onditions that Australia has put to Malaysia in this five-for-one Malaysian deal? Or is everything negotiable?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:59</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CHRIS EVANS</name>
    <name.id>AX5</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>As the Prime Minister has been at pains to explain, there will be no refoulement. Malaysia will commit to no refoulement of persons who are transferred. A precondition of the arrangement is that those who will be transferred will be treated with dignity and humanity, as they have been under this government and will continue to be so. As a mark of that, we have asked for the UNHCR and the IOM to be involved in the handling of those people transferred to Malaysia. The UNHCR and IOM will not be involved—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Brandis</name>
    <name.id>008W7</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise on a point of order on relevance, Mr President. The question was: are there no non-negotiable conditions? This is all context and background; it is not directly relevant to that which was asked: are there no non-negotiable conditions?</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>7L6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>There is no point of order. Minister, you have 24 seconds remaining to address the question.</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CHRIS EVANS</name>
    <name.id>AX5</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Brandis clearly does not listen. The point I was making was that a non-negotiable condition is that there be no reform and that people be treated with dignity and humanity. I was outlining two of those conditions. As I indicated, we have sought to involve other agencies, like the UNHCR and IOM, to ensure that there is appropriate input from those organisations with these arrangements. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Economy</title>
          <page.no>2077</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:00</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BILYK</name>
    <name.id>HZB</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister for Small Business, Senator Sherry. Can the minister outline to the Senate how the Gillard government is meeting its commitment to providing ongoing support for small businesses affected by last summer's natural disasters? How is the Gillard government making it easier for small business to access the right assistance and advice during the difficult recovery process?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:01</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHERRY</name>
    <name.id>ZW4</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank my colleague, Senator Bilyk, for the question. I do have some additional news about new support for small business in the areas of Australia that have been devastated by the recent natural disasters, floods and Cyclone Yasi. Of course, the Gillard government remains focused, as an ongoing priority, on the recovery of these regions and the businesses and individuals that have been affected. The government is providing an additional $3.3 million funding boost to small business support groups to help them deliver additional services to assist Australia's disaster-affected small business.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Ian Macdonald</name>
    <name.id>YW4</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Who's that—the ACTU?</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHERRY</name>
    <name.id>ZW4</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>No, it is not the ACTU, Senator Macdonald. You trivialise the very important work of the BECs, the business enterprise centres. They are dedicated, hardworking and committed. They worked, and are still working, enormously long hours to assist in the disaster-affected areas to provide additional assistance, ongoing support, counselling, business recovery and advice to the many small businesses affected. For Senator Macdonald to trivialise with that sort of silly interjection the enormous commitment and hard work that the BECs are doing on behalf of small businesses in these disaster areas is a reflection on Senator Macdonald.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Ian Macdonald</name>
    <name.id>YW4</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Why are you shutting them down if they are doing such a good job?</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHERRY</name>
    <name.id>ZW4</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Again, a trivial interjection. We are not shutting them down. There might be some state governments shutting them down, but we have expanded the funding. I am very proud that it is this government that introduced funding for the business enterprise centres. It was an election commitment in 2007 and it was delivered by my predecessor, Dr Emerson. We are very proud of the work the BECs have done. They deserve the additional funding, even if Senator Macdonald and the Liberal Party do not think it is deserved.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:03</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BILYK</name>
    <name.id>HZB</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr President, I ask a supplementary question. Minister, in what other ways has the Gillard government been supporting small businesses to recover? Is this new funding a part of this year's budget announcements?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:03</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHERRY</name>
    <name.id>ZW4</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The additional funding is part of the ongoing Small Business Advisory Services Program. That is a $42.5 million commitment from the government. The program makes it possible for some 37 business enterprise centres across Australia to operate.</para>
<para>I had the pleasure to launch the latest centre in Cairns, Senator Macdonald. You are obviously not looking at what is happening in Northern Queensland. We are actually expanding the services being offered, Senator Macdonald, contrary to the silly interjection you made earlier and the quite false claim that we are cutting back on the centres. We are expanding the reach of these centres. Senator Macdonald would be well advised to go and visit some of the small businesses that have been receiving advice from the new centre in Cairns. You are obviously so divorced from the issue and from your own community that you have got no appreciation of the work of these centres. Many of the advisers are formerly small business operators, and they are referred to small business operators.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Chris Evans</name>
    <name.id>AX5</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>While I would like to hear more from Senator Sherry, I ask that further questions be placed on the <inline font-style="italic">Notice Paper</inline>.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE: ADDITIONAL ANSWERS</title>
        <page.no>2079</page.no>
        <type>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE: ADDITIONAL ANSWERS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Health, Family Relationship Services</title>
          <page.no>2079</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:05</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LUDWIG</name>
    <name.id>84N</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to incorpor­ate two responses to questions taken on notice during question time. The first relates to a question Senator Williams asked me, as Minister representing the Minister for Health and Ageing, on Thursday, 24 March 2011, relating to the Gulgong hospital. The second relates to questions Senator Fielding asked the Minister representing the Attorney-General on 24 March 2011 in relation to concerns about Centrecare.</para>
<para>Leave granted; the document read as follows:</para>
<quote><para class="block">As part of a suite of health reform measures, the Commonwealth is providing $120 million in capital finding over four years to the states and territories for an additional 286 beds/bed equivalents to expand subacute care capacity in Multi-Purpose Service (MPS) facilities in rural and remote areas. This will be done under the National Partnership Agreement for the Expansion of Subacute Care in Multi-Purpose Services (the NPA).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The total funding available for New South Wales (NSW) under the NPA is $38.8 million. Following agreement of the NPA, funding will be provided based on an approved Implementation Plan, which will outline activities and required funding. NSW will distribute the funding according to local needs, based on this Implementation Plan.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Department of Health and Ageing has also received a proposal from the NSW government seeking funding for a number of aged care places at a multi-purpose service in Gulgong. This proposal is currently being considered by the Department against the criteria listed in the Aged Care Act 1997.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Negotiations with the states and territories on the NPA will commence shortly.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In terms of recurrent funding for the residential aged care places, if the NSW government proposal seeking aged care places is successful, the funding for these places would be provided from the time the service (and places) became operational.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Senator Fielding asked the Minister representing the Attorney-General on 24 March 2011:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Q: Is the Government aware of concerns by Centacare? In particular that there is an eight week waiting period on post-separation services and that a decrease in funding will increase waiting periods further?</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Senator also referred to a lack of consultation regarding funding cuts.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Senator Ludwig -</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Attorney-General has provided the following answer to Senator Fielding's question:</para></quote>
<list>The Government is aware of Centacare's concerns about waiting times in post separation services. The Government has received and responded to correspondence from Centacare about this issue. Waiting times for post separation services vary and can occur for many reasons, unrelated to funding cuts, including:</list>
<quote><para class="block">that clients need to go through a comprehensive intake and assessment process before the intervention can commence;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">that group programs that run over a number of weeks may only be scheduled on a periodic basis;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">it may take some time to locate, invite and assess the other party as suitable for the dispute resolution process; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">a clinical decision may be made to refer the client elsewhere for another intervention (for example, related to family violence) before it would be suitable to provide the family relationship service to that client.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Attorney-General's Department will continue to monitor waiting times for post separation services.</para></quote>
<list>Last year, the Government announced that some funding from within the Family Relationships Services Program would be re-directed to provide legal assistance and advice to help separating families resolve disputes with targeted legal assistance delivered by organisations such as community legal centres.</list>
<list>This included reallocating $48.4m from the Family Relationship Services Program over four years, with a total investment of $51.8m to help separating families resolve disputes with targeted legal assistance through community legal services.</list>
<list>However, the Government continues to provide more than $200 million in funding each year for the Family Relationship Services Program. This includes an annual investment of more than $90 million per annum for mediation services under the Family Support Program which supports separating families to resolve issues around children's matters.</list>
<list>Early indications since redirecting the funding indicate that this new approach to providing legal assistance for couples attending Family Relationship Centres has been positive and demonstrated that early and targeted legal advice can help couples resolve their disputes without resorting to the courts.</list>
<list>The Government has consulted extensively with the family relationship services sector on changes to their funding arrangements.</list>
<list>Further, the Government has also decided to defer the measures that apply to Family Relationship Centres until January 2012 to assist in transitioning to the new funding arrangements.</list>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE: TAKE NOTE OF ANSWERS</title>
        <page.no>2080</page.no>
        <type>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE: TAKE NOTE OF ANSWERS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Asylum Seekers</title>
          <page.no>2080</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:05</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator JOYCE</name>
    <name.id>e5d</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate take note of the answers given by Senators Evans, Ludwig and Carr to questions without notice asked in question time today.</para></quote>
<para>It is an interesting day today because, to be honest, very few people are going to be watching us; they have got other things on. But people stopped listening to the Labor Party long ago. I came to parliament this week thinking that maybe things would settle down, and then all of a sudden we had what would have to be one of the most peculiar decisions that has ever been foisted on this nation—the so-called Malaysian deal.</para>
<para>To throw further light on the Malaysian deal today, we had Senator Carr's response to the 'little bomb' issue. They had a little fire and they found a little bomb and they got a little inkling that something was going on. They found a little bomb at one of the detention centres. But don't worry—it was not a big problem; it was only a little problem as it was only a little bomb. There was a little fire going at the same time. There was a much bigger fire earlier on—a really big fire. That was a big problem, but then they had a little problem. Unfortunately, the peptic ulcer inside the government's stomach started to give a bit of a twitch and they realised that they had to do something. So the thought police, the brains trust, of the Labor Party got together and worked out this deal. They got on the blower and started ringing people all around the world to see if they could come up with a deal to cover up for the fact that the budget was going to be a disaster and that they also had a bit of a problem because people keep burning down buildings in the middle of Sydney—burning them down, mind you, when Australians are sleeping on the street merely miles away. That is the more sobering side of the problem that they have.</para>
<para>Apparently we are sending to Malaysia 800 people and then they are sending back to us 4,000 people. There is logic in that somewhere, apparently. It started off as a one-to-one deal, but it has somehow changed while Julia Gillard was negotiating. She cannot say it and she cannot do it, but she decided that she was going to negotiate her way out of the problem and this is how she would do it. Not only are we sending Malaysia 800 people and getting 4,000 in return but we are also sending them about $292 million. This sounds like the deal of the century. This is Labor Party politics. Now we also find that there will be a trail fee, a sort of trail commission, on this and apparently we are going to have to pay them another lazy $200 million to look after the problem. So it is about half a billion dollars and rising for this complete and utter fiasco.</para>
<para>On a deal like this, I expect the phones to be running hot in Julia Gillard's office. We will have Hugo Chavez on the phone saying, 'Mate, I can do a better deal for you. How about you send me 50 and I will send you 10,000. And I'll cut the price: I'll do it for a lazy 100 mill.' President Koroma of Sierra Leone—another country that is not a party to the United Nations refugee convention—will be on the phone: 'Don't worry, Julia; I'll help you out. I've got a few refugees here. How about we park a couple of hundred thousand over there. We could send you a couple of hundred thousand refugees, because we've got them in bulk. We've got a civil war on; we can park them over there.' Maybe we could go to the former Prime Minister of Somalia, Haji Hussein. He has probably got a few refugees. He should be in the market. It could be one of their biggest exports—exporting refugees to Australia. It is just so bizarre. You have become so bizarre. You have become so strange that if you did not laugh you would cry. And we get all this for the lazy sum of $292 million.</para>
<para>It should be noted just before the budget that a good bloke called Kenneth Rogoff from Harvard University has been listing the countries that have had the greatest cumulative increase in real public debt since 2007. I will go through the top three because we do not want to mention every country in the world: No.1, Iceland—we all know about Iceland; No. 2, Ireland; and No. 3, Australia. You get yourself into debt like that when you come up with ludicrous, mind-numbing solutions such as spending half a billion dollars on making your problem of 3,200 people bigger. We pay them half a billion dollars and the net effect in Australia is that we are 3,200 people worse off.</para>
<para>Who thought that up? Who is the plant from the Liberal Party or the National Party in Julia Gillard's office giving her this advice? Own up—who are you? Stop giving her this advice. Stop making it easy for us, please. We do not need any more help. This is what is happening. This is the manic world of the Labor Party. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:11</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PRATT</name>
    <name.id>I0T</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>On rising to speak on the motion to take note of answers, I am very proud of the fact that this government believes in real regional cooperation on asylum seekers. We know that, ultimately, that is the best way to manage this issue. It is also the best humanitarian outcome, something the Howard government, frankly, was never interested in. I, like most Australians, feel strongly about honouring our international protection obligations, and it is sad to me that Senator Joyce does not seem to take that obligation seriously. I do not shy away from the fact that we must find a better way to support vulnerable refugees. Our resolve to end the dangerous transport of so many vulnerable lives in shonky boats is one that I support. You need look no further than at the loss of nearly 30 lives before last Christmas off Christmas Island.</para>
<para>Malaysia has taken a much greater burden on it as a nation in terms of managing asylum seekers, with an estimated 100,000 people seeking refuge there. A funda­mentally important part of this arrangement is that the UNHCR, the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees, will be working to process the 800 refugees that Australia will send to be processed in Malaysia and will work closely with us to resettle the 4,000 that will come here as part of this increased humanitarian intake.</para>
<para>In my mind, this is no small thing. I am but one of thousands of Australians who make a small monthly donation to the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees fund, which works to support, resettle and process refugees. The UNHCR has a very difficult job and has been encouraging of Australia and other countries seeking to work together to find regional solutions on this issue, to support vulnerable people who need our protection.</para>
<para>Our arrangement with Malaysia is something we have been working on over the last six months as part of a regional cooperation framework. Very sadly, Mr Tony Abbott and Mr Scott Morrison have turned a blind eye to the facts when mounting their scare campaign on these issues. Frankly, I am surprised that Mr Abbott objects to an increase in the humanitarian intake. He showed he was prepared to support such an increase and in fact double the intake to win Mr Andrew Wilkie's support in the House of Representatives.</para>
<para>This government is committed to delivering on regional cooperation. This may be hard—it may be difficult—but ultimately it is the only path which will see better outcomes for asylum seekers throughout the region. We will see better outcomes for people who would otherwise languish in our detention centres. This arrangement is but the first step, and we need to keep talking to countries in the region. It is no easy task. We are working through the Bali process, we are talking to Papua New Guinea and we are working with the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees. Such ap­proaches were never a real prospect under the Howard government. Mr Abbott has simple rhetoric—'Stop the boats,' he says—but he has no credible plan to enhance the capacity of refugees to get the protection to which they are entitled throughout the region in an orderly fashion.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:15</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BERNARDI</name>
    <name.id>G0D</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>May I issue an apology to all the Australian people listening to this broadcast for wasting five minutes of their lives listening to a bunch of nonsense from Senator Pratt. It was just extraordinary that Senator Pratt was interjecting on Senator Joyce during his speech, saying, 'This is not a joke,' and yet everything that Senator Pratt has said makes an absolute mockery of what the government has been saying for the last three years and the 10 years previously. During this time our discredited Prime Minister—and I say she is discredited because we cannot believe a word that comes out of her mouth now—has duped an increasingly sceptical and disillusioned public by saying that offshore processing is inhumane, it is wrong and it has no place here in Australia. The only thing she has not acknowledged in the entire thing is that offshore processing actually stops the trade in people smuggling and it stops the boats from coming.</para>
<para>But according to the government the boats were coming due to push factors and it had nothing whatsoever to do with the soft treatment they have received in Australia since the government changed the laws. The facts speak for themselves: since 2008, 224 boats have come to this country, entering Australian waters illegally and carrying 11,246 arrivals seeking asylum. Since the last election we have had nearly 4,500 people arrive, and still the government said that nothing was wrong and that they would not go back to the inhumane treatment of refugees. There is nothing more inhumane than having people in a detention centre who are threatening the lives of other people by setting it on fire, by having riots and by planting bombs.</para>
<para>The government would not acknowledge these risks, but all of a sudden it has now done a deal. It has ditched the East Timor solution, which it has been defending for months since the last election, and it has cooked up the Malaysian solution. I say 'cooked up' because it has been cobbled together, clearly at the last minute. But the government's representative, Senator Pratt, has just told us that the government has been working on this for many months. They have been negotiating with themselves, because they have talked themselves out of a one-for-one deal to a one-for-two deal, a one-for-three deal et cetera, until they got a one-for-five deal. But let me tell you: that is not all you get, and it is not all that Malaysia get. They also get hundreds of millions of Australian taxpayer dollars.</para>
<para>The Australian people are very sympathetic to the plight of those who are in need. That is why we have a humanitarian refugee program. What they do not like are those people who are seeking to jump the queue and bypass the system. Yet this government seem to want to encourage that. They have said that they will not deal with an offshore processing centre on Nauru because it is not a signatory to the UNHCR—and yet they go off and deal with Malaysia, which is also not a signatory to the UNHCR. Is there any wonder that the Australian public are questioning the very legitimacy of this government?</para>
<para>Since when have we had a circumstance where the Australian people cannot believe a word that comes out of the Prime Minister's mouth? Since when have we had a circumstance where the Australian people believe that everything their government tells them is based on spin and lies? And they have got good reason to be suspicious of everything this government says, because not only do we know that the Prime Minister is an illegitimate prime minister but we also know that this government is so bereft of any structure and of any substance that it cannot manage the most simple policy decisions. It has put at risk Australia's border security. We know that; the evidence speaks for itself.</para>
<para>And now the government expect the Australian public to believe that they have done a good deal on our behalf, because when we get the next 800 people arriving in this country illegally we are going to swap them for 4,000 people who are in Malaysia seeking asylum. Eight hundred for 4,000—I would love to play poker with our Prime Minister. Whatever money she has got left after squandering it on so many bad programs would soon be in my pocket, because she cannot even carry off a bluff adequately. This is the problem we have: we have a government that do not know what they believe in and we have a Prime Minister who does not believe in anything. She has put everything on the shelf—everything that she has spent her entire life defending. And you wonder why the Australian people say, 'Enough is enough; we need to go to an election'.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:20</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HURLEY</name>
    <name.id>e4u</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The opposition are certainly full of sound and fury today. I think they must have spent the last few weeks listening to the more extreme radio shock jocks and reading emails from the more extreme right-wing groups. They seem very buoyed up, comparing finding a solution to the refugee issue in our region with poker games where people are swapped like betting chips; yet, in the same breath, they criticise the Australian government for their reaction to it.</para>
<para>The thing that the opposition clearly does not understand is this concept of a regional framework. I understand that the Howard government rhetoric was framed in these terms. It is not just about Australia and the refugees who make it to our shores; it is about the number of refugees coming to our region. It is not solely our problem; refugees are also coming to our neighbours in the area. They come to Malaysia, they come to Indonesia and they come to other countries in the region.It is a proposal that rather than deal separately and inefficiently with this issue we look at it as a region and try to develop a framework that will begin to address the problem; deal with refugees with dignity and humanity—not compare them to poker chips; look at decent solutions in conjunction with the UNHCR and the office of the International Organisation for Migration; and find a way to talk about the overall problem and how we can sort it out among ourselves and assist genuine refugees who are fleeing from countries—and there are a number of such countries around the world—where there is severe repression and threats to people's lives. We are dealing with increased numbers of refugees around the world.</para>
<para>As part of that solution, we have agreed to take an extra number of refugees. Clearly, there are some in the community that are going to dislike that. But what is the alternative? We leave refugees to pile up in Malaysia or Indonesia under very poor conditions? What is the serious proposal of other parties in this discussion? It is to go back to a solution that they found useful a decade ago. It is no longer useful. It is important now to look at the current situation and look at a way to address the situation that gives due respect to other countries in the region that are also experiencing an increase in the number of refugees and gives due respect to those refugees. It is, in the end, a practical solution to the problem. This is what the Gillard government has attempted to do. This arrangement will provide a method by which the refugee cases will be processed according to the UNHCR, which, as has been pointed out by the opposition, Malaysia has never been a party to. It now will be. Surely that is an advance which should get some recognition from the opposition. But no, they go onto these fantastic flights of fantasy about other countries joining in. This ignorance stems from a refusal to listen or to give good analysis to a situation.</para>
<para>No government would expect an opposition party not to critique its policy, but a nation would expect an opposition to be able to seriously address the issues and come up with a reasonable, sensible alternative proposal if necessary. It is clear, from today anyway, that the opposition has got nowhere near that state of affairs.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:25</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BACK</name>
    <name.id>J7Q</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>To paraphrase the now Prime Minister: another 224 boats, another 224 policy failures. When Ms Gillard was the shadow minister for immigration, not often did she have to come up with that line 'Another boat, another policy failure'. Regrettably, there have been 83 boats since she became Prime Minister on 24 June and 69 since the election of last year when Labor reversed what was a successful policy of the last coalition government, handed to them on a plate and rejected. That equates since 2008 to no less than 11,246 asylum seekers who have arrived on these shores. What we see yet again today is failure by an incompetent Prime Minister and an incompetent Minister for Immigration and Citizenship in this latest effort—that is, to try and strike a deal with Malaysia.</para>
<para>It was in March of this year that the asylum seekers rioted on Christmas Island. What was the reward after the first night of riots for those who led it? They in fact got their wish and they were air-transported to Darwin on the mainland. So what happened the next night on Christmas Island? The riots naturally extended and expanded to where others in detention, staff and people on the island were at risk. We now move forward to April this year, a continuing policy of a failed incompetent minister, to Villawood. As others have said, we saw not only firefighters, staff and others in Villawood put at risk but the destruction of Australian government property in this effort led by the allowance of an incompetent minister. What action have we seen taken? As spelt out here this afternoon, 11 days it took for the Federal Police to get these people down off the roof of that detention centre. Australians are heartily sick and tired.</para>
<para>We now see the latest knee-jerk reaction. Nobody believed that East Timor was going to participate in this so-called regional solution. There has now been a suggestion of Manus Island. That is probably a smart one because it is a return to the Howard govern­ment solution. We have just heard Senator Hurley, the previous speaker, making reference to involving and including those in the region. We now know, of course, that Nauru itself is willing to sign up to the UNHCR. We already have the assets available to us in that country. It only requires the Prime Minister and her incompetent minister to swallow their pride, pick up the phone and get on with what worked in the past.</para>
<para>We have seen a billion dollar blowout in the budget for immigration during the current financial year—budgeted at $200 million but will cost over $1 billion. One can only wonder what we are going to see this evening.</para>
<para>I have spent much time in Malaysia. I have even spent a brief time as a guest of the corrective services department in Malaysian detention centres. I can assure you they are not a place you would want to spend more time than is necessary. For those who do not believe that, they need to consult nobody else other than Anwar Ibrahim. But we have also now learnt that the Malaysians quite correctly will reserve for themselves the right to actually determine who of the 800 come to this country. So let us see the scene: the asylum seekers leave their home country, they go through Malaysia—incidentally, they have a passport when they go through Malaysia—they get on a boat, they come down here, they are processed, nobody likes them, so what happens? They go back to Malaysia and guess what happens to the people smugglers: they get to sell a second ticket, because they will leave that detention and once again return to Australia. The merry-go-round created by this incompetent government will only continue. The people smugglers are the ones who probably are smiling the most. Naturally those who do end up coming down on the boats a second time will destroy their identification papers and their passports, which gives us more work to do.</para>
<para>I conclude my comments with the observation that when the Howard government stopped the boats they continued the level of migration by genuine refugees, those who had been waiting for years and continue to wait for years in camps and who are currently being put further to the back of the queue because of these queue jumpers, most of them well-heeled, who are making a mockery of this country and its citizens.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>CONDOLENCES</title>
        <page.no>2086</page.no>
        <type>CONDOLENCES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Choules, Mr Claude</title>
          <page.no>2086</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:32</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LUDWIG</name>
    <name.id>84N</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I inform the Senate that on Thursday, 5 May 2011, the last known allied veteran of World War I, Mr Claude Choules, passed away at the age of 110.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>EP5</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I understand it is the wish of the Senate to observe a minute's silence to mark the passing of Mr Claude Choules. I ask all senators to stand as a mark of respect to the deceased.</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">Honourable senators having stood in their places—</inline></para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Cowan, Mr David Bruce</title>
          <page.no>2086</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:33</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>EP5</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>It is with deep regret that I inform the Senate of the death on 7 April 2011 of David Bruce Cowan a member of the House of Representatives for the division of Lyne, New South Wales, from 1980 to 1993.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>PETITIONS</title>
        <page.no>2086</page.no>
        <type>PETITIONS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Carbon Pricing</title>
          <page.no>2086</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Wine Grape Growers</title>
          <page.no>2086</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Live Animal Exports</title>
          <page.no>2086</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Live Animal Exports</title>
          <page.no>2087</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Live Animal Exports</title>
          <page.no>2087</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>NOTICES</title>
        <page.no>2087</page.no>
        <type>NOTICES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Presentation</title>
          <page.no>2087</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Postponement</title>
            <page.no>2090</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo></subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BUSINESS</title>
        <page.no>2090</page.no>
        <type>BUSINESS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Leave of Absence</title>
          <page.no>2090</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp></time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McEWEN</name>
    <name.id>e5e</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That leave of absence be granted to the following senators:    (a)    Senator Stephens from 10 May to 12 May 201 1 , for personal reasons; and    (b)    Senator Furner on 11 May 2011, on account of parliamentary business.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>2090</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Community Affairs Legislation and References Committees</title>
          <page.no>2090</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Meeting</title>
            <page.no>2090</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp></time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McEWEN</name>
    <name.id>e5e</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Community Affairs Legislation and References Committees be authorised to hold a private meeting otherwise than in accordance with standing order 33(1) during the sitting of the Senate today, from 5.30 pm.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Rural Affairs and Transport Legislation Committee</title>
          <page.no>2090</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Reporting Date</title>
            <page.no>2090</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp></time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McEWEN</name>
    <name.id>e5e</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the time for the presentation of the report of the Rural Affairs and Transport Legislation Committee on the exposure draft and explanatory memorandum of the Illegal Logging Prohibition Bill 2011 be extended to 27 May 2011.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Electoral Matters Committee</title>
          <page.no>2090</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Meeting</title>
            <page.no>2090</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp></time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McEWEN</name>
    <name.id>e5e</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Joint Standing Committee on Electoral Matters be authorised to hold a public meeting during the sitting of the Senate on Wednesday, 11 May 2011, from 9.30 am till 11 am, to take evidence for the committee's inquiry into the conduct of the 2010 federal election and matters related thereto.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Gambling Reform Committee</title>
          <page.no>2090</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Meeting</title>
            <page.no>2090</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp></time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McEWEN</name>
    <name.id>e5e</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Joint Select Committee on Gambling Reform be authorised to hold a private meeting otherwise than in accordance with standing order 33(1) during the sitting of the Senate today.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>MOTIONS</title>
        <page.no>2091</page.no>
        <type>MOTIONS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Humpback Whales</title>
          <page.no>2091</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:37</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SIEWERT</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (a)   notes:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">      (i)   the humpback whale is listed as a threatened species,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">      (ii)   human generated habitat degradation is identified as a major threat to humpback whales by the Department of the Environment and Heritage's <inline font-style="italic">Humpback Whale Recovery Plan 2005-2010</inline>,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">      (iii)   the plan notes the following forms of possible habitat degradation:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (a)   acoustic pollution, for example, commercial and recreational vessel noise and seismic survey activity,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (b)   entanglement, for example, in marine debris, fishing and aquaculture equipment,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (c)   physical injury and death from ship strike,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (d)   built structures that impact on habitat availability and/or use, for example, marinas, wharves, aquaculture installations, mining or drilling infrastructure,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (e)   changing water quality and pollution, for example, runoff from land based agriculture, oil spills, outputs from aquaculture, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (f)   changes to water flow regimes causing extensive sedimentation, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">      (iv)   building a gas hub at James Price Point, Western Australia, could result in habitat degradation for humpback whales who can typically be found along various parts of the Kimberley coastline for up to 9 months of the year from April to December; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (b)   calls on the Government to invest in more scientific research into the effect of development on the Kimberley coast on the humpback whale.</para></quote>
<para>Question negatived.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BUSINESS</title>
        <page.no>2091</page.no>
        <type>BUSINESS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Withdrawal</title>
          <page.no>2091</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp></time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>At the request of Senator Brandis, I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That general business order of the day no. 54, relating to the Assisting Victims of Overseas Terrorism Bill 2010, be discharged from the <inline font-style="italic">Notice Paper</inline>.</para></quote>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>MATTERS OF PUBLIC IMPORTANCE</title>
        <page.no>2091</page.no>
        <type>MATTERS OF PUBLIC IMPORTANCE</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Asylum Seekers</title>
          <page.no>2091</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:38</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>EP5</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The President has received a letter from Senator Fifield proposing that a definite matter of public importance be submitted to the Senate for discussion, namely:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The Gillard government's continued failure to secure Australia's borders to secure Australia's borders and introduce policies to deny people smugglers the product they sell.</para></quote>
<para>I call upon those senators who approve of the proposed discussion to rise in their places.</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">More than the number of senators required by the standing orders having risen in their places—</inline></para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>EP5</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I understand that informal arrangements have been made to allocate specific times to each of the speakers in today’s debate. With the concurrence of the Senate, I shall ask the clerks to set the clock accordingly.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:39</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CASH</name>
    <name.id>I0M</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I listened very carefully to the Minister representing the Minister for Immigration and Citizenship in his answers to some of the questions he was asked today in question time, and I caught the phrase 'sleazy deal', which I will have another look at when I review the <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline> tomorrow. But I have to say for the minister's information that the only sleazy deal that is actually being done is the deal that is being done by the Gillard government with the government of Malaysia: 'We'll give you 800; however, in return we'll take another 4,000.'</para>
<para>This government has shown the people of Australia that there is no principle that it is not willing to break, no promise it is not willing to not keep and no policy that it is not willing to shred in the interests of staying in power. Based on what we have seen with the latest thought bubble coming out of the Prime Minister, the Malaysian deal, Australians can only assume that the Prime Minister of Australia must wake up each morning and say to herself: 'What do I believe in today? What spin or tall story can I give to the media so that they can tell the people of Australia that maybe I have some form of idea or policy, even if those ideas or policies have a shelf life of approximately 24 hours?' This is no better reflected than in the deal that has been done by the Gillard government, the so-called Malaysian deal: the deal where we send one asylum seeker to Malaysia and in return the Malaysian government sends us five back. That is the deal that has been struck by the Gillard government.</para>
<para>I have to say the absolute absurdity of this deal was summarised quite beautifully today in a cartoon in the <inline font-style="italic">Advocate</inline> newspaper on page 15. The cartoon is of the Prime Minister, and it has a thought bubble coming from her head which says: 'Hee hee! We trade their 4,000 for our 800 and we throw in $290 million, and the Malaysians fell for it.' That sums up the state of this deal that the Gillard government has done with the Malaysians.</para>
<para>But, on top of that, what Australians need to understand is that they pay for everything under this deal. The Malaysians are not going to be paying for anything. We have negotiated a deal whereby we give, we take back even more and we pay for both the giving and the taking. For every refugee that we are going to be giving back to Malaysia, Australians will have paid $90,000, and for every refugee that we will be taking from Malaysia to Australia Australian taxpayers will have paid approximately $54,000. That is absolutely absurd, but I have to say that, if I were the government of Malaysia, I would have snapped up the deal. I would have snapped it up and then I would have turned to the Prime Minister and I would have said, 'Are there any other deals that you'd like to do today?' because I am quite sure that, with the way that that Prime Minister negotiates, there was certainly a deal to be had by the Malaysian government.</para>
<para>The coalition is not against genuine refugees seeking asylum in Australia. What we are against, however, is an incompetent government that has absolutely no idea whatsoever about maintaining the integrity of Australia's borders. The so-called Malaysian deal—on top of the potential to do the deal with PNG, on top of the fact that the Nauruan government would actually like the phone picked up for a call to them and on top of the fact that we also had East Timor thrown in the mix at one stage—represents nothing more and nothing less than a panicked announcement by a Prime Minister who realised that she was running out of options very quickly and the only policies that actually worked were the policies of the former Howard government. Because the details are so lacking under the Malaysian deal, the Prime Minister of Australia cannot even tell the Australian people which refugees we will be getting from Malaysia and, more so, which refugees we will be sending to Malaysia. The Prime Minister of Australia has refused to rule out whether or not pregnant females, children, the elderly and people who have disabilities seeking asylum in Australia will be sent to Malaysia as part of the deal that was struck with them. If this is true, it is possibly the most inhumane move I have ever heard from any government. It is an absolute disgrace.</para>
<para>What is worse is the utter hypocrisy from the Labor Left, because it was reported in the newspapers today that this Malaysian deal—despite the lack of detail, despite the obvious flaws and despite the complete disregard of a humanitarian approach—has been accepted by the left wing of the Labor Party. If that is true—and we have no reason to doubt it is not—there is only one conclusion that can be reached about the Labor Left: they have trashed their principles and they have let the Prime Minister of Australia walk all over them and throw out their core values. Clearly, they do not have the guts to stand up to the Prime Minister and tell her that she is wrong. The members and senators of the Labor Left should be ashamed. They are being ignored and they are being ridiculed by the Prime Minister of Australia. In fact, the <inline font-style="italic">Australian</inline> newspaper today reports that left faction convenor Doug Cameron initially had reservations about the plan but Senator Cameron, who tackled Ms Gillard on the issue at yesterday's caucus meeting, said he had come to see it as an innovative solution. It must have been a pretty pathetic tackle if the outcome is that the Labor Left have rolled over, had their tummies tickled by the Prime Minister and have accepted that the Malaysian deal is in some way innovative.</para>
<para>Which part of the deal do the so-called Labor Left see as innovative? Is it the part where for every one asylum seeker we get five back? They probably do like that part of the deal. Is it the part where the Prime Minister has refused to rule out the deportation of pregnant women and children and has refused to rule out the deportation of the elderly or the infirm? Perhaps the Labor Left really like the part where the Prime Minister of Australia said, 'We are going to do a deal with Malaysia, even though last year I am on the record as saying that I will rule out anywhere that is not a signatory to the refugee convention.' We all know that Malaysia is not a signatory to the refugee convention. Perhaps the Labor Left were won over by Malaysia's alleged undertaking that asylum seekers will not be sent back to the country that they are fleeing from. All I can say to the left wing of the Labor Party is that I hope that statement by the government of Malaysia is not one with the same substance as the statement by Prime Minister Gillard the day before the scheduled election last year when she said to the people of Australia, 'There will be no carbon tax under the government I lead.' We all know what happened as soon as the Prime Minister assumed office—she changed tack.</para>
<para>To the Labor Left: you have rolled over just like you did on the pay equity deal. You rolled over and you played dead. You did not have the guts to stand up and, just like that, you have done the same here. You have rolled over and you are betraying your constituency by agreeing to the Malaysian solution. You are now endorsing the Prime Minister of Australia's game of Pacific bingo. What Pacific island will the Prime Minister come up with next? We have had East Timor for months and months. East Timor was the be-all and end-all for the Labor Party. That was going to be the saviour policy for the Labor Party. We on this side had consistently said it was never going to happen, and every time we said that what did the Labor Party tell us? We were wrong. And now it has been absolutely, completely and utterly ruled out not only by the East Timorese but also by the Minister for Immigration and Citizenship, Mr Bowen. East Timor is done and dusted.</para>
<para>What did we have in the press the other day? We had PNG. We had the Secretary of the Department of Immigration and Citizen­ship, Andrew Metcalfe, making a quick and quiet trip up to PNG to have a chat with the PNG government about whether or not we should reopen Manus Island, despite what the Labor Party has said about Manus Island in the past. Lo and behold! Before the dust had even settled on the newspapers, the Malaysian deal was struck, allegedly. According to the Minister for Innovation, Industry, Science and Research, Senator Carr, it is going to be struck within the next few weeks—signed, sealed and delivered. On top of that, we have Nauru in the mix—the only country that wants the Prime Minister to pick up the phone and say, 'Can we bring refugees to you?' The Prime Minister refuses to deal with them.</para>
<para>This is a government that is in complete disarray. This is a government that has a minister whose department is failing to tell him what is going on in the detention centres. We have a Prime Minister and a Labor government that is so desperate that it will do anything and say anything and accept any deal in an attempt to get itself out of the mess it is in.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:51</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator MOORE</name>
    <name.id>00AOQ</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I did check the diary today to see what day it was just to remind myself which particular section 75 debate we would have, because if you look at the record over the last several months one day per sitting we have had words very similar to those used today. I think there are three words that are different today but it is the same process.</para>
<para class="italic">Senator Cash interjecting—</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator MOORE</name>
    <name.id>00AOQ</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I'm sorry; maybe you should check for the next sitting Tuesday so that we can get those words accurate—so we know, so we can get the rhetoric right. I have listened to the debates very carefully, I have taken part in a few of them, and it is really great to have the consistency of the rhetoric, even down to the point of making sure that someone, somewhere gets some guts. We are consistently reminded of that.</para>
<para>I really strongly believe that these issues are so important that we must continue to discuss, we must continue to find a solution that will be something that the whole of the parliament can share. But, in that process, what truly disturbs me is that, every time the opposition put up this motion, they begin with an announcement that we have to secure Australia's borders and the process seems to indicate, and we have seen it over many years, a visual picture of Australia being under attack, being invaded. They build up the fear, they build up the rhetoric and they put in place a view that any discussion of the serious issues of asylum seekers in our nation and in our world should be derailed by the premise that we are already in a warlike situation.</para>
<para>This is not new from the opposition. We have seen elections fought using this process. At no time has there been any attempt to hide the number of boats, to mislead with numbers. In fact, what we see is an agreed process whereby when a boat is found to be coming towards Australia that is announced openly to the world. We are told that a boat has been found, we are told how many people are on it and we are told what the process will be. It is not exactly a clandestine, secret operation. In terms of the numbers that have been thrown around in this chamber, we can determine exactly what numbers there were, how many people were involved. These are people who are seeking asylum; we must remember that. We are looking at that issue, and as a country and as a parliament we need to come up with a process under which we take due respon­sibility as a nation. We must take that responsibility. There is no doubt about that.</para>
<para>I cannot explain how pleased I was to have a lecture in this asylum debate today about compassion in processing people. I totally support that. That word, that process and that value should have seen a higher level of debate in this place over the past number of years. That needs to be on the agenda—treating people with compassion. Certainly that is something that will be part of any decision, of any agreement.</para>
<para>Once again, the rhetoric is very important. In the previous speaker's contribution we did not hear about international negotiations, we did not hear about discussions that were held openly between nations to come up with a solution, including at the recent Bali conference. That was a conference; it was not some kind of poker game where people were sitting around making deals. Again, colouring the debate, ensuring that instead of listening to what was happening, instead of understanding the seriousness of the issue, it is better to marginalise, to use rhetoric which takes the focus away from the issue, and also to give those quick one-liners that can be picked up so easily in the media, that can be used to scare, to terrify, to make people genuinely afraid.</para>
<para>What we have had over the period of the Rudd and Gillard governments is an acknowledgement that there is a real issue of asylum seekers in our region. We have also identified as a country that, based on international circumstances, it is an issue not only in our region. The issue of asylum seekers, people fleeing to seek another place to live because of conditions in their homelands, is something that countries are struggling with, making negotiations about and working to come to solutions on across the whole world.</para>
<para>It is no different in the Asia-Pacific region. In fact, what has been acknowledged in the Asia-Pacific region is that because of a number of key issues over the past few years in our region—including the continuing war on Afghanistan, the issues in Sri Lanka, what is happening around the Iranian issue and, most particularly in the past couple of years, the uncertainty in Pakistan—more people are fleeing into the Asia-Pacific area.</para>
<para>So what has our government done? We have said that we wish to work with the other countries in our region to come up with a regional solution. This is similar in some ways to the negotiations, the commitment that governments have made towards the good work that has been done in the past on trafficking and people-smuggling, where we have been able to work with other nations to make sure that everybody has acknowledged and accepted their own responsibilities. What has been referred to as the Malaysian deal, which is an agreement between two countries, is premised on the fact that there is an issue in our region. No-one denies that one of the key points in the journey that people take in this region is Malaysia. They have a significant problem. More than 90,000 people in the Malaysian Peninsula have been identified as seeking asylum.</para>
<para>There is a real need for all countries in our region to understand their responsibilities. We have made a commitment that we will, as a signatory to the international conven­tion, work within that framework to come up with a solution. It is true Malaysia and other nations in our region have not yet signed up to that convention, and that is a serious gap in the process. Labor was absolutely scathing of the coalition government and our policies, especially the Pacific solution, and vowed to end them in government. The fact is they worked. We controlled our borders and it was the Australian government who decided who was to come to Australia. An the infamous words from some, but for us a statement of how it is, I can recall John Howard's words:</para>
<quote><para class="block">We will decide who comes to this country and the circumstances in which they come.</para></quote>
<para>Of course, we look back now. That is not the case at all, is it? It is not only the people smugglers that are going to make this decision nowadays—we know that the responsibility has now gone to them—but now it is also, I understand, the Malaysian government. They have obviously done a pretty good deal on this.</para>
<para>I would like to touch for a moment on the contribution from Senator Moore in regard to our policies and that somehow they lack compassion. I would remind Senator Moore and those on the other side that I do not think there is a lot of compassion in a policy that allows people to place the lives of women, children and men on boats that we saw demonstrated at Christmas Island in December on that fateful, tragic day. As a consequence of getting on their boat, so many lives were lost in a pretty horrific way. I do not think you can say that it is not compassionate to ensure that under the UNHCR those people with the highest priority in the world come first. That is the idea. There are 50 million people seeking a migration outcome. We must give the priority to those most in need, and we have identified those people who are leading in abject poverty and misery in the Horn of Africa. The majority of those refugees on boats are not priority refugees, because they can least afford to get on a vessel and to pick a forum.</para>
<para>So what is the latest bumbling attempt to empty our detention centres with the proposal to ship 800 asylum seekers to Malaysia? Well, in return we are going to receive 4,000 refugees picked for us specially in Malaysia. If this plan were cooked up by anyone else, people would have dismissed it as a bad joke. Unfortun­ately, it is real and only could be put down to a desperate and incompetent government. A one-off deal: 800 out, 4,000 in and, by the way, we get to pay every single way. Who could possibly have sat down and said, 'This is in Australia's national interest. You can have 800 of ours, we'll take 4,000 yours and we'll pay everything that is going for.'? I mean, really, spare me.</para>
<para>I understand that the media originally said that this was going to be a two-for-one swap, but such was the strength of the negotiating capacity of the Labor Party, we actually managed to back it up to five to one! If that is not an act of desperation I don't know what is. Malaysia seriously saw the Prime Minister and Minister Bowen coming. That is a complete act of desperation. They have actually got to settle 4,000 refugees in another country at no cost and only had to take 800 people in return, with Australia also footing the bill for that process. Wouldn't it be great if we could do a deal like that?</para>
<para>I can recall them saying that this is going to stop the boats. I can tell you what it will do. It will make sure that boats arrive in a different place—called mainland Australia, mark my words. This is a sophisticated place to play in and you need sophisticated policies that are able to respond. They will not be going to Christmas Island; they will be coming to mainland Australia. If you live where I live—in Darwin—or in Broome in Western Australia, they will be the sort of things to look out for. I am not sure, again, that that is in our interests.</para>
<para>It does appear to be that, once again, it is only really pride and vanity that prevent this hopeless, incompetent, weak and indecisive government from picking up the phone and actually doing a deal that has been there forever. Ring up the President of Nauru. They have the facilities—again, run by IMO. We have a senator shaking his head on the other side—'No doubt it is because they are not actually a signatory of the convention.' Well, sir, neither is Malaysia.</para>
<para>I think the meltdown of the borders is completely emblematic of the government's weak, indecisive nature. You are not capable of making a decision—we know that right across the board. But even when it you come to make decisions you give away our national interest in the process. Weak and indecisive. It will never do. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:07</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'BRIEN</name>
    <name.id>8O6</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>You have to give the opposition some credit for trying. They are desperately trying to do everything they can and say everything they can to try and make the arrangements that this government has entered into with the Malaysian government not work. They are desperately hoping that they do not work, and they are desperately hoping that there is no way that this government can intercept the intentions of the people smugglers. I have to disappoint the opposition. If they do not understand how this system is going to work, let me tell them. The point of the arrangements—</para>
<para class="italic">Senator McGauran interjecting—</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'BRIEN</name>
    <name.id>8O6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator McGauran, with his interjection just then, clearly does not understand the logistics a people smuggler will have to deal with. That is, they will have to convince clients in Indonesia that paying the people smuggler money to put them on a boat to Australia will not have them end up in Malaysia. It is curious, isn't it, that there has been a focus on the numbers as if this is some sort of slave trade—as if it is trading person for person. This government is serious about—</para>
<para class="italic">Senator Brandis interjecting—</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'BRIEN</name>
    <name.id>8O6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Perhaps, Senator Brandis, you will shut your mouth and listen for a change. You are pretty good at opening it.</para>
<para class="italic">Senator Brandis interjecting—</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'BRIEN</name>
    <name.id>8O6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Yes, it is pretty ugly, Senator Brandis, when you yell across the chamber persistently.</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>00AOP</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! The interjections are just far too much. I would ask senators to desist.</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'BRIEN</name>
    <name.id>8O6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you for your protection, Mr Acting Deputy President. The fact of the matter is that this opposition is treating the arrangements as if it is some human bargain—as if a person-for-person arrangement is a fair trade. This is not about a trade. This is, on the one hand, this govern­ment accepting Australia as a developed country with substantial resources has the capacity to receive refugees who have been through the appropriate process—and, after all, wasn't that the proposition which the former government advanced as justifying the Pacific solution? This government is saying: 'Let's get the UNHCR working in Malaysia. Let's get the UNHCR involved in Malaysia—and the IOM. Let's get an assessment of people who have been waiting there for years'—and we are told there are over 93,000 of them—'and let's make a small contribution and accept 4,000 of them and for Malaysia to make a contribution to what has been agreed on a regional basis in the Pacific region, and that is: let's find a way to disrupt the people smuggler arrangements which lead to a train of people moving from Sri Lanka, Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran through this region looking for sanctuary, predom­inately in Australia.' So there is nothing wrong with the government's proposal to find a way to get the Malaysian government to become involved in a regional solution to disrupt the activities of people smugglers. But, of course, we are reminded of the coalition's Pacific solution—we were told that all we had to do was pick up the phone and we could have returned to it. We could have made an arrangement with Nauru about what was once perhaps but is not now a ready-to-function destination for potential refugees.</para>
<para>What did the UNHCR say about the Pacific solution anyway? I think it was Richard Towle, the spokesman for the UNHCR who said:</para>
<para>Australia was obviously looking at ways to divest itself of some of the responsibilities of dealing with refugees.</para>
<para>That is: the former government was seeking to divest Australia of its responsibilities to deal with refugees. That is what he said. He went on to say:</para>
<para>The countries that were negotiated, Nauru and PNG at that time, did not have a refugee issue of their own and largely became places were Australia was able to manage its own protection responsibilities under the convention.</para>
<para>So it was not a regional burden-sharing arrangement at all. It was much more of a responsibility-shifting arrangement. And that's why we think they are not only philosophically but also in the way they were implemented they're quite different types of arrangements.</para>
<para>He said the latter reflecting on the proposed arrangements, those to which there has been in-principle agreement between the Australian government and the Malaysian government. I say again: Australia is in the position to accept refugees and there are refugees who satisfy the test and are waiting for an opportunity and looking for an opportunity to come to a country such as Australia. Over many years Australia has accepted its responsibility. I believe—unless someone tells me this is not the case—that this is a bipartisan policy between the opposition and the government. We both agree that this country has the capacity to accept refugees, has a responsibility to accept refugees and is prepared to accept refugees who go through a process of seeking asylum from outside of our borders.</para>
<para>What has this put in place? It puts in place arrangements where, on the one hand, those refugees languishing in Malaysia will get an enhanced opportunity to come to Australia if they satisfy the necessary tests. On the other hand, people smugglers, particularly in Indonesia, will be faced with the problem of convincing those who hitherto would have paid the money to come to Australia that in fact they are not paying the money to go backwards and end up in Malaysia. Self-evidently, that is a proposition which will cause a great deal of trouble to the people smugglers in Indonesia.</para>
<para>Of course it was the government's hope to negotiate such an arrangement with East Timor. I am happy to say that, although East Timor does not find itself able to move down that path, Malaysia does. The government has also announced that it has in train discussions with other countries about broadening the scope for such a policy, because, at the end of the day—and I think this was also the policy of the coalition—this problem is not just an Australian problem; it is a problem for the region. There are refugees in Indonesia. There are refugees in Malaysia. In the future, one suspects, there will be refugees looking to go to countries such as Papua New Guinea as their economy improves, particularly as the mining sector grows and there is more wealth and opportunities there. There will be other islands in the Pacific which will be seen as destinations for refugees.</para>
<para>So it is a regional problem and it is a problem that is developing. It is a problem that is not going to go away just by Australia trying to shift its responsibilities, as the Pacific solution did, by shifting those people to places of detention in Nauru and PNG with no other solution available.</para>
<para>The fact that the UNHCR and the Malaysian government have embraced this approach, given Malaysia's history on refugees, shows just what a substantial breakthrough this arrangement is and just what sort of deterrent this will be for the people smugglers in the future.</para>
<para>On 8 February, the UNHCR spoke about the previous Nauru situation and the then closure of that centre the UNHCR said:</para>
<para>… in our view, today's closure of the centre on Nauru signals the end of a difficult chapter in Australia's treatment of refugees and asylum seekers. Many bona fide refugees caught by the policy spent long periods of isolation, mental hardship and uncertainty – and prolonged separation from their families.</para>
<para>The reality was of course that many of those people ultimately found their way either to Australia or New Zealand. So all that that arrangement did was defer the inevitable—that genuine refugees would find a location and that, being in our region, the likelihood was that it would be Australia or New Zealand.</para>
<para>I note Senator Scullion talked about the cost of arrangements with Malaysia. We were paying substantial amounts of money to the Nauruan government and the government in PNG for them to operate facilities on our behalf as well as paying for the cost of the operation. So let them not say on the one hand that we are spending money on arrangements with Malaysia, when they spent money, on just the same basis, when they wanted to locate refugees in Nauru and PNG when they were in government. So it really is a bit hypocritical of those who would argue that we should not be paying that money, when one looks at the performance of the previous government.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:22</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McGAURAN</name>
    <name.id>WH4</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>There was a senator whose term finishes on 1 July, like mine does. Senator O'Brien, you did not have to lapse into every single cliche—</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:22</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>00AOP</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator McGauran, please address your remarks through the chair.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McGAURAN</name>
    <name.id>WH4</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Through the chair?</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>00AOP</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Yes, thank you.</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McGAURAN</name>
    <name.id>WH4</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator O'Brien did not have to lapse into every possible cliche. He did not have to put up with this so-called Malaysian policy that was not run through the caucus or the cabinet, yet again. He does not have to put up with the insult of the government towards him and his backbench. He does not have to do that, given his limited term here; yet he did. Like every other speaker on the other side, you, Senator O'Brien, are probably someone who did not have to and should not have, and you may as well say you have wasted your public life in this place if you really believe a word you said. None of you do.</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>00AOP</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator McGauran, please address your remarks through the chair, not directly to other senators.</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McGAURAN</name>
    <name.id>WH4</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>So I should keep looking at you.</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>00AOP</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>You do not have to look at me, Senator McGauran, but you need to address your remarks through me.</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McGAURAN</name>
    <name.id>WH4</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I like to spray it all around the chamber—but I want you to know that, at all times, I am addressing you, through you, about Senator O'Brien. Have we got that?</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>00AOP</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you; I am relieved. Please continue.</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McGAURAN</name>
    <name.id>WH4</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Good. Anyway, that is what he chooses to do in his dying days of politics and being a parliamentarian. What a shame, because you know as well as everyone—everyone on that side knows—that this is a case of 'here we go again'. This is not the East Timor solution. This is not the people's assembly. This is not the Papua New Guinea deal. This is the Malaysian deal. It is a new one. It is a brand new deal that you knew nothing about. Cabinet did not know. You are taking it all over again from your leadership. You do not have to; you should not. It is no way to run a government, it is no way to run a country and it is no way to serve in public office at all. Sooner or later you have got to stand up to that.</para>
<para>I heard one speaker mention the 'consistency of this debate'. You bet it is consistent; it has been going on for years. Let me read to you, for the purposes of those on broadcast, what this debate is about. They will recognise the terms of this debate, because it has been going on since 2008. It reads: 'The Gillard government’s continued failure to secure Australia’s borders and introduce policies to deny people smugglers the product they sell'. It is a consistent debate, and we have been consistent in putting up the policies to fix the problem. We have been consistent in bringing the government to account. It is the government's inconsistency and policy failure after policy failure. The only consistency is that the leadership will announce it, when you know nothing about it, and within 24 hours you have to walk in here and defend it. You are given your riding instructions, you are given your dot points and you dutifully undertake the defence of the indefensible.</para>
<para>Quite often I come into this place singing the praises of Senator Doug Cameron. He is on a different political spectrum from me, but I have always looked for what Senator Doug Cameron has said in the newspapers. I always like to cut these things out and put them into my top pocket for moments like this. I have always thought, 'Here's a man, unlike the other weaklings across the other side, who will stand up to the Prime Minister, who will raise things in the caucus meetings.' But that is just a perception. I have now been disappointed by Senator Cameron. His latest foray in the caucus room—and it always manages to get into the newspaper, I should add—was to pretend that he was standing up to the Prime Minister, Ms Gillard, and ask about this latest deal, the so-called Malaysian solution. Senator Cameron quickly, as it was rightly described, rolled over. I have worked Senator Cameron out. He is a big disappointment. I am going to have to find another hero on the other side now, in the limited time I have—but I will be watching on A-PAC.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Lundy</name>
    <name.id>7G6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>You are really just filling in time.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McGAURAN</name>
    <name.id>WH4</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>All he does is put it up—so the media think he is a grandstander—and just rolls over, just like very other person. And don't you talk, Senator Lundy! I remember coming into this place—</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>00AOP</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator McGauran, please address your remarks through the chair.</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McGAURAN</name>
    <name.id>WH4</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>She is interjecting and provoking.</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>00AOP</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I will ask senators to cease interjecting.</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McGAURAN</name>
    <name.id>WH4</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The night that Julia Gillard—oh, what was her name?</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Lundy</name>
    <name.id>7G6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Oh, come on. Show some respect!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McGAURAN</name>
    <name.id>WH4</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I have no respect! How is that? I just want to make this point before I get on to the substance of my address. On the night that Ms Gillard took over the prime ministership there was an adjournment debate in this House. I spoke on it and so did Senator Lundy. On that very night, or perhaps it was the night after, Senator Lundy came into this chamber and dripped with praise for the new prime minister, because she was all part of that plot. She was out for a promotion. Get her the <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline>. It is disgraceful. It is terrible that anyone could be as greasy as Senator Lundy. Heaven forbid if that is how she treats her public office. And she—who does nothing in this chamber—has the audacity to interject on me and say that I am just filling in time. Rubbish! You are the greatest filler I have ever met.</para>
<para>The gravity of this issue does require someone from the front bench, other than an interjector, to come in and speak on this issue. But they never do. They always leave it to the hapless backbench, who know nothing about what is going on. They were warned about the softening of the laws by the Labor Party in 2008. They were warned by their own department. Senator Evans was warned by the department that this would lead to a surge and he was warned by the Federal Police that this would lead to a surge. And that is exactly what happened. But due to the false piety of the other side trying to claim some delusional moral high ground, they maintain this soft policy. What is so moral, I ask them—and I ask the next speaker to answer this question—about giving succour to the people smugglers? What is so moral about inducing people to cross the seas on treacherous journeys where many are lost? What is so moral about denying those in the detention camps, who rightly apply and queue up, their chance to come out to Australia? These are the true moral questions that those on the other side ought to address. You have a policy that is in shambles. You are in denial. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:52</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WORTLEY</name>
    <name.id>e6c</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>In rising to speak in this discussion can I first say that this matter of public importance was proposed by those opposite, yet we have had Senator McGauran stand here and waste eight minutes speaking about nothing. He would have had plenty of time to prepare if he had a case, but he does not have a case.</para>
<para>Unlike Senator McGauran, I welcome the opportunity to set the facts straight about what this government has done, and is doing, in the critical area of border protection and, importantly, to set the facts straight about the global context that has given rise to the displacement of people of many nations, some of whom are fleeing civil wars and the like to seek safe haven for themselves and for their families</para>
<para>The issue of unauthorised boat arrivals and irregular migration is not confined to Australia; it is a global problem which many countries around the world have been experiencing for some time now. These countries include Denmark, Sweden, Greece, Italy, Belgium, France, Germany, the United States, Austria, Norway and the United Kingdom. In March this year, the UNHCR released a report showing that during 2010 an estimated 358,000 people fled persecution in their homelands to seek asylum in industrialised countries. The total number of claims made in Australia remains well below levels seen in many other countries. It represents two per cent of total applications for asylum in the industrialised world, according to the report. In 2010, the main destination countries for asylum seekers were the United States, with 55,500 claims; France, with 47,800 claims; Germany, with 41,300 claims; Sweden, with 31,800 claims; and Canada, with 23,200 claims. In comparison, in Australia we received 8,250 claims, and these were largely from people coming from the most troubled and conflict-ridden regions of the world.</para>
<para>Let me be clear: border protection is indeed a matter of public importance. This government has a long-held commitment to addressing the serious nature of people-smuggling activities and to targeting those criminal groups who seek to organise, participate in and benefit from people smuggling. For the record, the Labor government has devoted unprecedented resources to protecting Australia's borders and developing intelligence on people-smuggling activities. It has worked cooperatively with Australia's regional partners to disrupt people-smuggling ventures overseas, and we are subjecting people smugglers to the full force of Australian law.</para>
<para>We know that people smugglers are motivated by greed and we know that they work in sophisticated cross-border crime networks. We know also that they have little regard for the safety and security of the people being smuggled, endangering their lives in unseaworthy and overcrowded boats.</para>
<para>The Gillard government believes the way to respond to what is a regional problem is to develop regional solutions. Irregular migration and people smuggling are global and regional problems that cannot be tackled by acting alone. These issues must be tackled in partnership with other countries. Under the Howard government, Australia took a unilateral approach. The Howard coalition government acted alone. It is a fact that genuine regional cooperation was never a prospect under the Howard government, and Senator McGauran knows that.</para>
<para>Protecting Australia's borders and airports from threats of terrorism, people smuggling, organised crime, illegal foreign fishing and the trafficking of illicit goods continues to be a top priority of the government. Those opposite know that the Labor government introduced legislation, including the Anti-People-Smuggling and Other Measures Bill 2010, which reflects this. This bill ensures that people-smuggling activities are consistently and comprehensively crimin­alised and it makes it an offence to provide material support for people smuggling. It also equips our law enforcement and national security agencies with effective investigative capabilities to detect and disrupt people smuggling. It is just one example of the government's commitment to addressing the serious nature of people-smuggling activities and targeting those criminal groups who seek to organise, participate in and benefit from it.</para>
<para>On Saturday, the Prime Minister and the Minister for Immigration and Citizenship announced new measures as part of a regional cooperation framework that aims to put people smugglers out of business and prevent asylum seekers making the very dangerous journey to Australia by boat. The bilateral arrangement will take the form of a cooperative transfer agreement that will see asylum seekers who arrive in Australia by sea being transferred to Malaysia. In exchange, Australia will expand its humanitarian program and take on a greater share of the burden of responsibility for resettling refugees currently residing in Malaysia. The core elements of this bilateral arrangement will include a provision that 800 irregular maritime arrivals who arrive in Australia after the date of effect of the arrangement will be transferred to Malaysia for refugee status determination. In return, over four years Australia will settle 4,000 refugees already residing in Malaysia. Transferees will not receive any preferential treatment over asylum seekers already in Malaysia. Transferees will be provided with the opportunity to have their asylum claims considered, and those in need of international protection will not be refouled. So no-one who is transferred will return to their country of origin while their claims are being assessed or if they are found to be in need of protection. Transferees will be treated with dignity and respect in accordance with human rights standards. In addition, the UNHCR will be responsible for the processing of applicants involved in this process and a robust, independent advisory board will be established to oversee the implementation of the agreement.</para>
<para>Unfortunately, today most of the world's refugees are living in countries that have not signed the UN refugee convention. In the case of Malaysia, there is agreement to abide by key parts of the convention. Australia and Malaysia are working closely with the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees and the International Organisation for Migration to operationalise the arrange­ment.</para>
<para>In response to the government's announcement, UNHCR regional represen­tative Richard Towle said the scheme has the potential to improve the way the region manages refugee flows. In an interview published on the ABC online website, he says:</para>
<para>… it's very important that this agreement is appropriately monitored and is seen to deliver not only outcomes for governments in terms of dealing with human smuggling and trafficking movements but also is seen to deliver improved protection for people in the region.</para>
<para>I think in that sense it has the potential to … make a significant practical contribution to what we're trying to achieve in the region.</para>
<para>And if it's a good experience other countries can look at it and say yes, that's a positive way of managing these issues. Perhaps we want to embark on similar or other initiatives under a regional cooperation framework.</para>
<para>Mr Towle goes on to say that there are significant differences between the current deal and the Howard government's Pacific solution. He says:</para>
<para>This is an agreement, it's a bilateral agreement that has been negotiated within a broader regional cooperation framework with the involvement of UNHCR and the involvement of IOM … and we hope the involvement of other important actors as well, including non-governmental organisations.</para>
<para>So it is an agreement between countries that are actively involved with refugee issues and both commonly face a refugee displacement problem.</para>
<para>Mr Towle points out that the Howard government's push to house asylum seekers in countries without a refugee problem was about shifting responsibility. He says:</para>
<para>Australia was obviously looking at ways to divest itself of some of the responsibilities of dealing with refugees. The countries that were negotiated, Nauru and PNG at that time, did not have a refugee issue of their own and largely became places were Australia was able to manage its own protection responsibilities under the convention.</para>
<para>So it was not a regional burden-sharing arrange­ment at all. It was much more of a responsibility-shifting arrangement. And that's why we think they are not only philosophically but also in the way they were implemented they're quite different types of arrangements.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:40</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>00AOP</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! The time for this discussion has concluded.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS</title>
        <page.no>2103</page.no>
        <type>MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:40</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LUNDY</name>
    <name.id>7G6</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I present three ministerial statements relating to:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The economic impact of recent natural disasters, Afghanistan, and recent developments in the Middle East.</para></quote>
</speech>
</debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>2103</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Tabling</title>
          <page.no>2103</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>2135</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Rural Affairs and Transport References Committee, Community Affairs References Committee, Economics References Committee, Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade References Committee</title>
          <page.no>2135</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:42</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAROL BROWN</name>
    <name.id>F49</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—On behalf of the chairs of committees, I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That:   (a)   Rural Affairs and Transport References Committee on the science underpinning the inability to eradicate the Asian honey bee be presented by 30 June 2011;   (b)   Community Affairs References Committee on the impacts of rural wind farms be presented by 1 June 2011;   (c)   Community Affairs References Committee on the options and services for people ageing with a disability be presented by 31 May 2011;   (d)   Economics References Committee on the impacts of supermarket price decisions on the dairy industry be presented by 1 October 2011;   (e)   Economics References Committee on the State government insurance and the flood levy be presented by 30 June 2011;   (f)   Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade References Committee on the Department of Defence's request for tender for aviation contracts and associated issues be presented by 23 June 2011; and   (g)   Rural Affairs and Transport References Committee on pilot safety, including consider­ation of the Transport Safety Investigation Amendment (Incident Reports) Bill 2010 be presented by 15 June 2011.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:43</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAROL BROWN</name>
    <name.id>F49</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That consideration of each of the committee reports and government responses to committee reports tabled today be listed on the <inline font-style="italic">Notice Paper</inline> as orders of the day.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Economics References Committee</title>
          <page.no>2136</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Consideration of Reports and Government Responses</title>
            <page.no>2136</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:43</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WILLIAMS</name>
    <name.id>I0V</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I move:</para>
<para>That the Senate adopt the recommendation of the Economics References Committee on the impacts of supermarket price decisions on the dairy industry relating to the provision of a government response.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>2136</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Tabling</title>
          <page.no>2136</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>AUDITOR-GENERAL'S REPORT</title>
        <page.no>2136</page.no>
        <type>AUDITOR-GENERAL'S REPORT</type>
      </debateinfo></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>2136</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Tabling</title>
          <page.no>2136</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>National Schools Constitutional Convention 2011</title>
          <page.no>2136</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Electronic Transactions Amendment Bill 2011</title>
          <page.no>2136</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body background="" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" style="" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint">
            <a type="Bill" href="r4510">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Electronic Transactions Amendment Bill 2011</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:46</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LUNDY</name>
    <name.id>7G6</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I table an addendum to the explanatory memorandum relating to the Electronic Transactions Amendment Bill 2011.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>2136</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Publications Committee</title>
          <page.no>2136</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Report</title>
            <page.no>2136</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:46</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAROL BROWN</name>
    <name.id>F49</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Pursuant to order and at the request of the chairs of the respective committees, I present the fifth report of the Publications Committee.</para>
<para>Ordered that the reports be printed.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Additional Information</title>
            <page.no>2137</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:47</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAROL BROWN</name>
    <name.id>F49</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Pursuant to order and at the request of the chairs of the respective committees, I present additional information received by committees relating to estimates hearings:</para>
<list>Finance and Public Administration—2010-11 additional estimates</list>
<list>Rural Affairs and Transport—2010-11 supplementary budget estimates</list>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>2137</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Tabling</title>
          <page.no>2137</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>2137</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Membership</title>
          <page.no>2137</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp></time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LUNDY</name>
    <name.id>7G6</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<list>That Senator McEwen replace Senator Ludlam on the Legal and Constitutional Affairs References Committee for the committee's inquiry into <inline font-style="italic">Water Act 2007</inline> provisions relating to the development of a Basin Plan, and Senator Ludlam be appointed as a participating member of the committee.</list>
<list>That Senator Colbeck replace Senator Heffernan on the Rural Affairs and Transport Legislation Committee for the committee's inquiry into the exposure draft and explanatory memorandum of the Illegal Logging Prohibition Bill 2011, and Senator Heffernan be appointed as a participating member of the committee.</list>
<list>That Senator McEwen replace Senator Carol Brown on the Community Affairs Legislation Committee for the period of 30 May to 3 June 2011, and Senator Carol Brown be appointed as the participating member of the committee.</list>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BILLS</title>
        <page.no>2137</page.no>
        <type>BILLS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Consideration of HR Message</title>
          <page.no>2137</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>2138</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Joint Committee, Cyber-Safety Committee</title>
          <page.no>2138</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BILLS</title>
        <page.no>2138</page.no>
        <type>BILLS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Assent</title>
          <page.no>2138</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>2138</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Report</title>
          <page.no>2138</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:50</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAROL BROWN</name>
    <name.id>F49</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Pursuant to order at the request of the chairs of respective committees, I present reports and legislation from the Legal and Constitutional Affairs Legislation Com­mittee, the Finance and Public Administra­tion Legislation Committee and the Education, Employment and Workplace Relations Legislation Committee, as listed at item 20 on today's <inline font-style="italic">Order of Business</inline>, together with the <inline font-style="italic">Hansard </inline>records of proceedings and documents presented to the committees.</para>
<para>Ordered that the reports be printed.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BILLS</title>
        <page.no>2139</page.no>
        <type>BILLS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Australian Research Council Amendment Bill (No. 2) 2010</title>
          <page.no>2139</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body background="" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" style="" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint">
            <a type="Bill" href="r4492">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Australian Research Council Amendment Bill (No. 2) 2010</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>2139</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:51</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator MASON</name>
    <name.id>84M</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The coalition supports the Australian Research Council Amendment Bill (No. 2) 2010. It essentially appropriates an extra year of funding for the Australian Research Council for the 2013 year as well as providing for indexation of the funding in the forward estimates. Other than that, the bill makes no substantial amendments to the ARC Act.</para>
<para>However, it is worth briefly giving some context to why research matters. Research is the engine of innovation, productivity and, of course, growth. In a modern advanced economy, research is essential to maintaining the edge over our competitors and improving the lives of Australians. Virtually every technology we use, every convenience we take for granted, has its roots in research. We might not see or think much about research, but its benefits are all around us. Spending on research is, quite simply, one of the best investments a government can make. In purely monetary terms, it produces a better return on every dollar spent than just about every other way the government can spend money. It advances human knowledge, produces countless direct benefits and spin-offs and, when commercialised, brings a wealth of benefits to our country, our economy and our people.</para>
<para>In all fairness, I am starting to sound like my friend Senator Carr, the Minister for Innovation, Industry, Science and Research, in expanding the benefits of research. In a sense I raise this because of mooted cuts to the budget of the National Health and Medical Research Council, the NHMRC. I know that Senator Carr and I am sure Senator Evans as well—being responsible for tertiary education—would agree with me that the funding of research is critical. It is a pity that the government is considering cutting those funds. I am hoping that Senator Carr, Senator Evans and others in the government that care about these things will make sure that Mr Swan and the bean counters do not get away with too much. I think it is fair to say that with research you cannot just cut it and then pick it up the next day, because when you cut it people leave, contracts are broken, relationships are destroyed and expertise often goes overseas.</para>
<para>Just the other day I was at the well-named Menzies Research Institute at the University of Tasmania where they are doing great work in the areas of cancer, heart disease, diabetes, arthritis, Alzheimer's disease and multiple sclerosis. They have 150 researchers there and it is one of the Australia's great medical research institutes. I am really concerned about what might happen to that institute among others if those cuts that are being mooted in fact occur.</para>
<para>One of the great interests of former Prime Minister Mr Howard was medical research. Senators will remember that, between 1995 and 1996 and up until the 2008 budget, the coalition provided a fivefold increase in medical research funding with funding increasing to about $700 million annually. It was one of Mr Howard's great passions. I was told when I was at the Menzies Research Institute that the then Prime Minister spent nearly an entire day at the institute looking at the projects and the medical research being undertaken at the University of Tasmania. That is a long time for a prime minister to spend in one spot looking at one particular project. To the coalition, this is very important research not just for the researchers in Tasmania but for the Australian people.</para>
<para>I know the budget is being delivered tonight and I know there are financial constraints on the budget. I accept that and I think the country knows that. Suffice to say that cutting medical research at this time would be the wrong move because the benefits it brings to all Australians has great multiplier effects. I am hoping tonight that Mr Swan does not take an axe to that. I commend the bill to the Senate.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:56</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LUNDY</name>
    <name.id>7G6</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Australian Research Council is a statutory authority within the Australian government's Innovation, Industry, Science and Research portfolio. Its mission is to deliver policy and programs that advance Australian research and innovation globally and benefit the community. In seeking to achieve its mission, the ARC provides advice to the government on research matters and manages the National Competitive Grants Program, a significant component of Australia's investment in research and development. Through the National Competitive Grants Program, the ARC supports the highest quality fundamental and applied research and research training through competitive selection processes across all disciplines, with the exception of clinical medicine and dentistry.</para>
<para>This is an appropriation bill to support the ongoing operations of the ARC. It will fund the high-quality research we need to address the great challenges of our time, to improve the quality of people's lives, to support the development of new industries and to remain competitive in the global knowledge economy. Bills to amend the Australian Research Council Act 2001 to receive administered funding occur each year. This is to apply indexation to existing approp­riation amounts, create an additional forward estimate and may also contain new funding for new initiatives. The current bill updates the special appropriation funding cap amounts administered by the Australian Research Council to include indexation adjustments to three existing financial year appropriation amounts and adds a forward estimate year in the Australian Research Council Act 2001. The bill adjusts the Australian Research Council's funding cap for the financial years beginning on 1 July 2010, 2011 and 2012 in line with indexation and sets the funding cap for the financial year beginning on 1 July 2013. Indexation adjustments and adding an additional forward estimate are part of the standard budget process and are administrative in nature. The proposed amendments change only the administered special appropriation; they do not alter the substance of the act or increase departmental funds.</para>
<para>The ARC is the major source of funding for the innovative, investigator driven research that has underpinned inventions ranging from the bionic ear to the Jameson flotation cell which saves the coal industry hundreds of millions of dollars each year. ARC centres of excellence provide key science and policy advice on the management of coral reefs, are developing automated control systems for the mining industry and agricultural sector and are taking some big challenges in medicine such as applying nanobionics to regenerate spinal cord injuries. ARC funding has enabled regional centres such as the Cairns campus of James Cook University to attract Australian and international leaders in tropical rainforest ecology to build world-class teams of researchers and postgraduate students. Ongoing funding for the Australian Research Council is essential to the vitality of the Australian higher education system. Excellent researchers across all areas of the university system must be able to compete for funding if we are to keep world-class academics in Australia working in our universities and teaching the next generation. Since 2007 the Australian Research Council has delivered on our 2007 election commitment of 1,000 Future Fellowships. The Australian government will provide, over five years, up to $844 million and will award up to 1,000 of these midcareer research fellowships. The inaugural 200 future fellows were announced in September 2009 and a second round of 200 was announced in October 2010. Sixty of the fellowships announced last October identified environment and climate change as a target research area.</para>
<para>In July 2010 we announced the establishment of the ARC Centre of Excellence for Climate System Change to address uncertainties in regional climate science. This world-class research centre, hosted by the University of New South Wales, will receive $21.4 million over seven years. The centre's research programs will investigate the effects of tropical convection on Australia's climate; risks; mechanisms and attribution of changes in Australian climate extremes; the role of land surface forcing and feedbacks for regional climate; drivers of spatial and temporal climate variability in extratropical Australia; and mechanisms and attribution of past and future ocean circulation change.</para>
<para>In January 2008 we announced the establishment of the ARC Advisory Council and a range of other measures to enhance the independence of the ARC. In January 2011 six new members were appointed to the council, increasing its overall size from seven members to 10, to enhance its range of expertise and experience and ensure it is well placed to provide strategic and policy advice.</para>
<para>In February 2008 we announced that the ARC would deliver the Excellence in Research for Australia framework. This is a world-leading research evaluation frame­work reflecting the Australian government's commitment to a transparent, streamlined evaluation of the quality of research undertaken in Australia's universities. The Australian government has provided $35.8 million over four years. Since 2008 the ARC has undertaken three years of comprehensive and widespread consultation with the higher education research sector on the develop­ment of ERA. The first full round of evaluations for ERA took place in 2010. The ARC delivered the ERA 2010 national report on 31 January 2011. This landmark report highlights both Australia's research strengths and areas with potential for further development. It will allow the Australian government to plan the future of research investment in Australia. It provides assurance to government, industry and the Australian public of the quality of research conducted in Australian higher education institutions and the value of government investment in the research sector. For ERA 2010 the ARC received data in relation to some 330,000 unique research outputs and over 55,000 researchers.</para>
<para>The ERA initiative is a key element of the government's agenda for the reform of Australia's higher education system, articulated in <inline font-style="italic">Transforming Australia's Higher Education System </inline>(2009), and its innovation agenda, expressed in <inline font-style="italic">Powering Ideas: An Innovation Agenda for the 21st Century</inline> (2009). ERA gives Australia, for the first time, the capacity to rigorously measure our achievements against our peers around the world. It draws together rich information about discipline-specific research activity at each individual institution, as well as information about the contribution to the national landscape of each discipline in each institution.</para>
<para>In March 2008 the government announced the opening of all ARC grant schemes to international competition and in July 2008 the government announced the opening of the ARC schemes to the Australian Institute of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Studies. The ARC continues to work closely with Indigenous researchers on a range of new initiatives for those Indigenous researchers.</para>
<para>In September 2008 the ARC introduced the Australian Laureate Fellowships Scheme to build strong teams around our very best research leaders. The Australian government will provide, over five years, up to $239 million and will award up to 75 fellowships. The inaugural 15 laureate fellows were announced in June 2009. In November 2010 the Prime Minister announced two additional laureate fellowships—the Kathleen Fitzpatrick Australian Laureate Fellowship in the Humanities, Arts and Social Sciences; and the Georgina Sweet Australian Laureate Fellowship in Science and Technology—for female researchers and research leaders of international repute. The new ARC scheme 'Researchers in Industry Training Awards', part of the government's Clean 21 initiative, will focus on increasing industry engagement in research and development projects through funding research student stipends in industry sectors vital to Australia's future. Up to 200 awards will be available—100 each in 2012 and 2014—an investment of $23.4 million over six years. The targeted industry sectors include built environment, clean energy, future manufacturing, industries supporting innovative regions and the marine and maritime industry.</para>
<para>The new Discovery Early Career Researcher Award scheme will provide more focused support for researchers and create more opportunities for early-career researchers in both teaching and research positions and research-only positions. It is expected that up to 200 three-year awards will be available each year, commencing in 2012.</para>
<para>The ARC has also introduced Research Opportunity and Performance Evidence to enable assessors to take into account any career interruptions, including those for childbirth and caring responsibilities—very welcome news. In November 2010 the Australian government approved $21 million in funding for the ARC Special Research Initiative in Stem Cell Science and announced the successful proposal of Stem Cells Australia, who will conduct world-class research and create a public awareness unit to provide public education and encourage public debate into the ethical, legal and public policy issues associated with stem cell science.</para>
<para>In July 2010, 13 new centres of excellence were announced, with total Australian government support of $255.9 million over seven years. This was in addition to the Australian government's announcement in February 2009 of an additional $82.25 million to extend the funding of the 11 existing centres of excellence.</para>
<para>Through this important legislation, the ARC will continue to advance our efforts to build a fairer and more prosperous Australia through innovation and education. I commend the bill to the Senate.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a second time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Third Reading</title>
          <page.no>2143</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp></time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT (Senator Kroger)</name>
    <name.id>G1N</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>As no amendments to the bill have been circulated, I shall call on the minister to move the third reading, unless any senator requires that the bill be considered in the committee of the whole.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:09</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LUNDY</name>
    <name.id>7G6</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill be now read a third time.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a third time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Broadcasting Legislation Amendment (Digital Dividend and Other Measures) Bill 2011</title>
          <page.no>2143</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body background="" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" style="" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint">
            <a type="Bill" href="r4517">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Broadcasting Legislation Amendment (Digital Dividend and Other Measures) Bill 2011</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>2143</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:09</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak on the Broadcasting Legislation Amendment (Digital Dividend and Other Measures) Bill 2011. This bill has two main components, one being to effect a reorganisation of digital television channels to realise what is commonly referred to as the 'digital dividend', and the second being to deal with amendments to the regulatory framework which provide free-to-air television via the new VAST satellite service as part of the digital television switchover. The switch to digital-only television will make the present spectrum used for television in the analog space in the frequency ranges between 694 and 820 megahertz available for other uses. Beyond that is a capacity and opportunity to restack the spectrum used in the digital space, further making capacity available.</para>
<para>Spectrum is of course a valuable com­modity, and I expect significant competition for this spectrum including from providers of superfast broadband, which we all know is increasingly the internet platform of choice for many Australians. This will of course provide a windfall of sorts to the government when that spectrum is allocated, auctioned or otherwise disposed of. I wish that I could say I have confidence that when this government receives windfall gains such as from the sale of spectrum it knows how to use the money wisely. However, I can but hope—given its history in pink batts, school halls or other areas—that there is a change of government in place by the time the dividend in financial terms to government from this spectrum reallocation is made available.</para>
<para>To enable this digital dividend, a more efficient organisation of broadcasting services spectrum is required, which will be overseen by the Australian Communications and Media Authority, otherwise known as ACMA, through a process, as I mentioned, known as restacking. This reorganisation requires amendments to the Broadcasting Services Act and Radiocommunications Act, which are presented in this bill. The coalition recognises the need to provide ACMA with the regulatory changes it needs to complete the restacking process effectively. However, as coalition senators outlined in their additional comments to the report of the Broadcasting Legislation Amendment (Digital Dividend and Other Measures) Bill 2011 inquiry, the coalition does have some concerns in relation to the realignment of the broadcast licence areas. Before I move onto those concerns, I place on record my thanks to the members of that committee for their work in that inquiry and, of course, to the committee secretariat as always.</para>
<para>The concerns raised by coalition senators in particular highlight the power that the amendments in this bill provide to the minister to direct ACMA to make or vary television licence area plans. These licence area plans, of course, set the boundaries into which different television broadcasters operate. While it is likely that there will be some change to licence areas, it appears the powers provided by these amendments offer, to some degree, free rein to the minister and ACMA in terms of those boundary changes, with few restrictions put in place. While I would not expect ACMA to just draw random maps for the sake of it, this is still a concern in terms of the lack of boundary and direction provided for in the bill. I also note that ACMA could allocate additional licences in some broadcast areas, potentially to significant industry players, which of course would come with a detrimental effect on existing broadcasters. In fact, in the Senate inquiry, the Department of Broad­band, Communications and the Digital Economy testified that the bills contained:</para>
<para>… no express prohibition on ACMA allotting broadcasting spectrum in whatever way it sees fit.</para>
<para>Of course, these are important issues, and local stations with local programming content and local advertising provide a great community benefit and help to foster strong, vibrant regions. They are good for regional business, good for regional people and good for regional communities as a whole. While the legislation and these amendments that provide for this capacity may all be of good intention, sometimes good intentions go astray and there is nothing wrong, of course, with taking a precautionary approach in relation to such amendments. On this basis, I would invite the minister to provide some response to those issues raised by coalition senators and to provide some comfort in regard to the overall capacity of the minister and ACMA to exercise these powers in relation to the boundaries and the allotting of broadcasting spectrum.</para>
<para>Prior to the finalisation of the restacking exercise and to achieving the entire dividend, critically related to this is the switch-over itself—the switch-over from the analog signal to the digital signal, which has already taken place in parts of my home state of South Australia as well as parts of Victoria and Broken Hill. It is quite clear that the planning for the switch-over and preparation for it has--certainly in my experience dealing with parts of regional South Australia--been somewhat lacking. Hundreds if not thousands of people in the regional switch­over area in SA are experiencing problems. They have contacted my office; I have spoken to them through media outlets and received their calls in many, many cases. We have written on many, many occasions detailing dozens and dozens and dozens of particular examples—and I am sure there are many more for all those who have contacted my office—in regard to problems people are having with the switch-over. Many of these problems remain and we are still getting new calls and inquiries some six months after the analog signal was switched off in parts of regional South Australia.</para>
<para>Unfortunately, the government seems to have failed to provide sufficient information to many households about how their antennas are set up and what things are needed for the switchover other than just getting the technology of a box or a new television in place. This failure has left them with poor or no television reception. In other cases there are technical reasons for why people are not getting the quality of television service that they previously enjoyed under the analog system. While Senator Conroy is well aware of my concerns in this area, I hope he is aware that these concerns are shared by many of my coalition colleagues, especially surrounding the preparation of further communities for the switch-over in regional areas. There is a real concern in many communities that not all current analog terrestrial transmission sites will be replaced with digital terrestrial transmission facilities. This, of course, will mean that many people who currently receive a terrestrial signal will have to switch to the VAST satellite service.</para>
<para>The government's VAST satellite service program—to cost some $375 million over 12 years—replaces community funding models which allow communities to invest in self-help transmission or retransmission services that allowed them to access terrestrial facilities. The minister ought to be aware, and others have made these points, that of the 680 current self-help sites it is estimated that around 570 will not be upgraded to provide for digital retransmission. This will affect hundreds of communities in regional Australia and will see some 127,000 households move from a terrestrial television service to a satellite television service, losing the local connections and content which, as I highlighted earlier, are so significant and important for many regional communities. With another budget to come this evening—another budget, no doubt, of further waste and incompetence on the government's part—you would think that Senator Conroy and the government might have paid some attention, and I can live in the hope that perhaps they have, to the views and submissions of the Local Government Association of Queensland, which stated in its submission to the exposure draft of this bill:</para>
<para>… converting many if not most existing analogue self-help transmission sites to digital is a more convenient and cost effective way to approach a conversion to digital TV.</para>
<para>Indeed, moving from terrestrial to satellite television will not be a cheap exercise for taxpayers, households or, in particular, for many small businesses—especially for retire­ment homes, motels and caravan parks. Last week I was in Georgetown, in Northern Queensland, where the motel owners expressed their concerns about the expense of changing over from a terrestrial service that they currently have on a self-help basis to a satellite service that will cost them greatly to transform every room in their motel. With no subsidy scheme for businesses, unlike for households, there is a real question for people like the motel in Georgetown as to how such businesses are to provide television services and, in doing so, fund the considerable cost of the new satellite equipment. Many simply will not be able to afford the expense or will see it as another hit to the bottom line, especially in the tourism industry, as well as for all those other small businesses.</para>
<para>There is an alternative that others have outlined, and that is that the government should move to allow communities to pool their VAST subsidies to pay for upgrades to their existing retransmission sites to a digital retransmission service. This would be a sensible win-win outcome for communities who would get to keep a terrestrial service and in many cases for many taxpayers who would actually save on cost. For instance, in Normanton, also in Queensland, some 552 households will be eligible for the $700 Satellite Subsidy Scheme, which, in addition to the householder co-payment of between $200 and $350, could total up to $600,000 in costs for Normanton households to access the VAST satellite system. Meanwhile, the minister himself has stated that setting up a digital terrestrial facility to retransmit all of the VAST channels would cost between $110,000 and $270,000. I think we can see in this example that there are opportunities to save money in relation to this switchover from the types of programs the government has proposed.</para>
<para>Also, on the total cost for households, it is likely that in many instances the $200 to $350 co-payment ,which applies to upgrading only one household appliance, will not be enough given that we know many households have multiple televisions as well as recording devices, so this will be a considerable cost to households in those communities as well. Keeping a terrestrial signal in place wherever possible is simply good for communities, good for small businesses and good for tourism operators in particular. It is unfortunate that the government is not taking this approach and I would again urge the minister and the government more generally to reconsider and to look at ensuring, wherever possible, that it does support the maintenance of terrestrial facilities.</para>
<para>Communities are not just concerned about the cost of the switch-over; many are also worried about the time they have to prepare. Broadcasters who have undertaken to convert existing analog transmission facilities to digital are required to do so six months before the switch-over date in any particular given region. This is to ensure that households have enough time to ensure that their digital reception equipment is working correctly. Without this time, many people are left with no TV services when the analog signal switches off. Indeed, my office has received calls from many people who, following the switch-off of the analog signal in South Australia, were left with no signal and felt they had little information about what to do to upgrade and in some instances had not had access to a digital signal so far in advance. In fact, the six-month rule was not observed in South Australia or in Mildura, and I would hope the government does ensure in future that it is observed in all switch-over areas in all cases. The six-month opportunity for people is important if they are to ensure that all of their equipment is working correctly before the switch-off occurs. It is simply not good enough and, as I indicated before, my office is still receiving many, many calls from South Australians receiving poor reception who really could have done with extra time to ensure their equipment was working before the switch-over.</para>
<para>The coalition does recognise the need for the switch-over to digital-only television and we recognise this bill's role in this process. We do, however, implore the government to look at some of the measures I have outlined today that would enable more people to receive a terrestrial signal, would save taxpayer dollars and would ensure that people could continue to receive the terrestrial signal as well as ensure that those matters that have been debated in this place previously, such as the six-month rule for the switch-over, are maintained and observed by the broadcasters and by the government in the setting of the switch-over dates.</para>
<para>The coalition also recognises the import­ance of local content wherever possible, and this is another reason why the opportunities of terrestrial services should be maintained. Overall we do not oppose this bill. We do recognise that it provides the necessary framework measures, particularly to achieve the financial dividend for taxpayers and the benefits of the spectrum becoming available for new technologies and new uses and to ensure that we get out of that public good of spectrum the best available return for all Australians in an economic sense, in a social dividend sense and also for taxpayers. We would urge the government, in relation both to how it manages that process and in particular to how it continues in managing the digital switch-over, to heed some of the concerns, to look for opportunities for cost saving and to show us that it is up to managing this process effectively into the future.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:26</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LUDLAM</name>
    <name.id>I07</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to add some comments on behalf of the Australian Greens, and I advise the Senate at the outset that the Greens will be supporting this bill. We have a number of concerns, which Senator Birmingham has outlined, and the concerns that we raise are very similar. I will give advance warning that I will be moving two second reading amendments that address in particular one of the issues that Senator Birmingham just raised.</para>
<para>This bill amends the Broadcasting Services Act 1992 and the Radio­com­muni­cations Act 1992. It has come in consequent to a process that we do support. The switch-over to digital television has been a long time coming. It has been delayed; it is probably running about a decade behind schedule considering when it was first proposed. It is appropriate that we are debating this legislation now with the process of the rollout where it is. The amendments introduce measures to effect­ively implement the reorganisation of digital television channels, to realise the digital dividend and to improve the regulatory framework for free-to-air digital TV services provided on the VAST satellite service and the switch-over to digital-only television.</para>
<para>The Australian Greens welcome the government announcement that 126 megahertz of broadcasting spectrum will be released as a digital dividend. This dividend will be released as a contiguous block of spectrum in the UHF band in the frequency range of 694 to 820 megahertz. The spectrum will become available as a result of the switch to digital-only television and the release of spectrum currently used for analog television. Digital switch-over will be completed in Australia, we understand, if all goes according to plan, by 31 December 2013.</para>
<para>The Greens have asked the government to estimate the overall revenue that will be raised by the auctioning of the digital dividend band, which of course is now an important and extremely valuable piece of taxpayers' property effectively. We have asked the government whether any sections of the band will be allocated for use by the emergency services or by other non-com­mercial services. I missed the first few minutes of Senator Birmingham's speech. I am not sure whether this is an issue that the coalition have taken an interest in or not. The Australian Communications and Media Authority should be able to tell us the commercial value of the 20-megahertz spectrum requested by the Police Federation of Australia on behalf of emergency services organisations, and we think that this information would be useful as the debate unfolds with regard to who gets what in the digital dividend.</para>
<para>We understand the government is still considering whether or not to reserve part of the digital dividend in the 700 megahertz band for police and emergency services, and if so how that will be organised. I will indicate now I have a number of questions with regard to this issue and a couple of others, and that I will be proposing that we take this bill into the committee stage so that we can debate some of these issues with the minister. We want to put on the record that the Greens' view is generally supportive of the proposal that we understand came forward from the Attorney, Mr McClelland, that 20 megahertz or thereabouts be reserved for these public safety agencies because it is vital for the services that Australians need during natural disasters and other critical events such as terrorist incidents, bushfires and so on, and that there are particular technical reasons why emergency service organisations are requesting that particular band of that particular part of the spectrum. As I understand it, all of Australia's police commissioners support the Attorney-General's proposal, including the New South Wales commissioner, who is the spokes­person on the matter, and the govern­ment's own chief commissioner, Tony Negus of the AFP, who in March 2011 told the Parlia­mentary Joint Committee on Law Enforce­ment how important access to that particular band is for police and emergency services workers. I understand the proposal is also backed by peak bodies representing fire authorities, ambulance services and so on across the country, and that the issue was raised at the February 2011 COAG meeting. So I suppose I am inviting at this stage the minister, if he is able to, to provide us with an update as to how that is going.</para>
<para>A hundred and twenty-six megahertz in the 700-megahertz range, the digital dividend, will soon be available for new users when Australia moves from analog to digital television, and of course police and emergency services are seeking 20 megahertz of that available spectrum, around 16 per cent of it. The remaining 84 per cent would then be available for auction to the big telecommunications carriers. I understand that there is resistance to the Attorney-General's proposal from the carriers and there has been a certain amount of debate in the public domain as to whether emergency services need that band, whether they are requesting something in the wrong place or whether it is irrelevant. Of course the carriers all want the available spectrum for commercial purposes, so they are just doing their jobs as well. I understand there is probably some contention even within the government, and maybe the minister can spell out for us what the views of the government are in this regard. I understand that the Attorney has a report from Access Economics which says that setting aside 20 megahertz of spectrum for natural disasters may not reduce the proceeds from auction because of the scarcity value of the spectrum, so in effect it decreases the amount that is available for bidding, which has been described as the waterfront property of radio spectrum.</para>
<para>There are essentially two alternatives to the Attorney's proposal. One is to insist that police and emergency services buy their communication services from commercial carriers. In effect, that means they would at this stage be reliant on Telstra, which is the only carrier in this space which has the reach that they need right across the country. This is the 'leave it to the free market' option that leaves our public safety agencies potentially at the mercy of Telstra, whose systems are not really built to importance level 1, which these services require for reliable, robust communications that survive natural disasters, to have that highest degree of network resilience that they obviously require.</para>
<para>The other option is to impose conditions on the commercial carriers which are successful in buying spectrum in this range at the forthcoming auctions. Such conditions would aim to ensure that the carriers meet the needs of police and emergency services, whether it be robustness, priority, security and so on. This approach was tried by the Obama administration in the States in 2008 and it failed because the carriers did not want to take on the onerous requirements that were necessary to meet the needs of first responders, quite understandably again. Their interests there are actually quite different. So subsequently President Obama reserved 20 megahertz for first responders in January 2011. They have rolled back in the US to the approach that the police and emergency services organisations are proposing here in Australia. If only mild conditions were imposed on the commercial carriers, the needs of first responders would not necessarily be achieved, and that is obviously something that they have great concerns about. We know the carrier systems regularly fail during natural disasters. Recognising that the NBN rollout will change the picture substantially, it is not going to change the underlying dynamic of the divergence of interests between the commercial carriers and emergency services personnel. So we believe that the Attorney-General's proposal probably has merit and is the only option that will ensure that police and emergency service authorities have the high-speed mobile broadband communica­tions that they effectively need in situations like natural disasters.</para>
<para>I understand that COAG has endorsed the need for these public safety agencies to achieve interoperability so as to protect the community in the range of circumstances that are foreseeable. I again give the minister notice now that I will be asking about that in the committee stage. This is a case obviously where the government's first priority, in our view, should be public safety and it should be the national interest rather than the interests first of the telecommunications carriers to maximise the value of the spectrum auction. I understand that a number of independent MPs are supporting the Attorney's proposal to reserve spectrum for natural disasters and other critical incidents. So we believe that public safety should come first and we are interested in pursuing the proposal to reserve spectrum for law enforcement agencies.</para>
<para>We come now to the other area that we addressed during the Senate inquiry earlier this year, which Senator Birmingham touched on in his remarks. It goes partly to the issue of pooling the Satellite Subsidy Scheme. During the caretaker period last year a letter from the department said the following concerning pooling:</para>
<para>The subsidy will be provided by way of a procurement model under which contracted satellite installers will be engaged to provide the equipment and installations for eligible households. It will not be paid directly. Because of this it does not lend itself to pooling of payments.</para>
<para>On 15 November last year I wrote again to the minister suggesting again the concept of pooling the SSS payments. This time the minister replied sometime around 21 December and in respect of the pooling matter a new series of arguments against pooling were raised. They were essentially twofold. Firstly:</para>
<para>Under the funding arrangements agreed to by the government for the satellite subsidy scheme, it is not possible to redirect funding from the scheme for other purposes such as making payments to councils to upgrade self-help facilities.</para>
<para>Secondly, the minister wrote:</para>
<para>I am also advised that pooling of the SSS funding in some areas could have the effect of increasing both the cost of the scheme to government and the copayment by individual households.</para>
<para>This is because—I am paraphrasing slightly here—of the model used maximising benefits from economies of scale that come from being able to contract for a specified number of households on a state-wide basis. If the number of households is reduced, the contractor's price might be expected to rise.</para>
<para>The Environment and Communications Legislation Committee report of March this year shows in a bit of detail the objections and the counterproposals that were put in this matter by the Local Government Association of Queensland, Broadcasting Australia in particular and the Remote Area Planning and Development Board of Queensland, who took a particular interest in these issues. They provided responses within their submissions to the Senate committee as the same points were made by the minister in a letter of 9 December to the chairman of RAPAD. On the first point we believe that, just as the cabinet submission in relation to the scheme may have specified it being used only for DTH reception, so a subsequent cabinet decision could sensibly alter such a restriction if the arguments were made and if they were accepted. On the second point the department and the minister have said that such a procedure would distort the SSS scheme and result in higher copayment charges for the few remaining homes within the SSS VAST conversion structure. It is a reasonable argument, but we respectfully disagree. No bidder to an SSS tender can alter any quoted price on the basis of changes to the predicted number of homes regardless of the reason. This is reasonably well established. The exact wording from schedule 3, which is the pricing schedule for the required RFT response, says:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The exact number of Registered Households that will participate in the scheme may be higher or lower (than outlined in the Schedule) … The list of locations participating in the scheme may also vary due to decisions by the broadcasters to, or not to, convert self-help sites to digital …</para></quote>
<para>So people coming into this process are well aware that the numbers of households can change. The second argument that the minister put to us in his letter does not actually hold water according to the documents. It is clear that broadcasters can quite freely decide to upgrade a self-help facility or not to upgrade one that they previously said they would at any time. The department does not seem to be concerned at this significant potential for a rise or fall in SSS participation and any effect on remaining homes. This already happened at Orroroo in regional South Australia after, we understand, the regional contract was signed with Skybridge. They lost more than half the predicted regional South Australian business. The same happened with Cohuna in regional Victoria. This town of 1,800 residents was removed from the department's scheme town list early in December 2010 after the broadcasters decided to upgrade the self-help transmitter at the end of November. We understand that that occurred after the contract with Skybridge had already been signed. Finally, we understand that total SSS business in regional Victoria is only running at about a third of the original predicted rate in the RFT documentation.</para>
<para>The pooling concept is fairly simple. Funds equivalent to the Commonwealth contribution for the relevant location—whether it be 400, 550, 700 or 980, depending on location—plus the manage­ment fee which is paid to the contractor for every eligible home serviced multiplied by the expected eligible household numbers for the location would be handed to the relevant council. This is something that councils are requesting to at least have the option to be able to do. If the Commonwealth were concerned about such a transfer, it could certainly coordinate an RFT process for such self-help upgrades, resulting in the relevant councils or the local government association and the Commonwealth entering into a bulk contract for all such regional—but mostly remote Queensland—self-help upgrades. I think this is a good model that could be extended elsewhere. The relevant local council would be responsible for all the extra initial establishment costs and continuing maintenance and operational costs—which is what the local government authorities up there are actually proposing. I understand that the LGAQ and RAPAD have been conducting tests of various digital terrestrial self-help technical models, the aim being to demonstrate, for example, a remote Indigen­ous community self-help transmission model. Again, as Senator Birmingham out­lined for the chamber, this is about retaining local programming and local terrestrial transmission. It is not about constricting choice or taking money off people making the government's life more complicated but about preserving the local broadcasters that people are used to.</para>
<para>Clearly, once technical feasibility, bulk costs and ongoing maintenance are identified, the next issue will be: can we pool the contingent SSS to assist the initial rollout cost? The Greens believe there are justifiable concerns from those who have questioned the logic of requiring the 265-odd self-help licensees, involving around 460 facilities, to examine digital terrestrial self-help options during the period 30 March to the end of January 2011. It was impossible for such an examination to be undertaken when the equipment necessary for such endeavours was not actually available. So we note the department's comment during the inquiry that they are willing to accept the position taken by some councils in rural and remote areas who have said that they were opting for the subsidy but if they subsequently find that there is a better terrestrial solution which proves cost-effective they will be able to implement that and they would actually prefer to do that for their communities.</para>
<para>The Greens recognise that there has to be a mixture of solutions to get television to people across Australia—part of that being satellite, part of it terrestrial. The question, obviously, is how services can be delivered most effectively. These issues were very well canvassed in the committee report. We remain concerned, however, that some viewers may be forced to receive a VAST service in rural and remote regions before alternatives have been tested. We understand that government may consider lengthening the time frame for consideration of self-help solutions and application for the scheme.</para>
<para>We have a second reading amendment which calls on the government to do this and I will move that shortly. We also have another second reading amendment that calls for an independent review. We may have created a certain amount of confusion in calling for a review that will actually be conducted before the rollout has concluded by 2013. That is intentional. Because it is a phased rollout, we will have a great deal of operational experience and we will have a very good idea of how the process has worked for the earlier regions once they have been bedded down, which we think will be useful to be conducted during the rollout in later regions, particularly as we start getting into the big metro areas. So we have some concerns remaining about the impact that these changes will have on the community and we believe that a review on the impact of delivery of television services to viewers across Australia, but in particular to regional and remote areas, should be undertaken no later than 24 months after the legislation has been put in place, which, as I say, will probably bring us in some time before the rollout has concluded. That is actually intentional. I move the two Greens amendments:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) At the end of the motion, add:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   but the Senate is of the opinion that the Government should extend the timeframes for the consideration of self-help solutions and applications in subsidy areas of the Satellite Subsidy Scheme.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) At the end of the motion, add:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   but the Senate is of the opinion that the Government should cause an independent review of the impact of the delivery of television services under this legislation on viewers across Australia, and in particular in regional and remote areas, to be undertaken no later than 2 years after the commencement of this legislation.</para></quote>
<para>I conclude my comments and will come back with some questions for the minister, depending on the comments that he offers now.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:43</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FEENEY</name>
    <name.id>I0O</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Firstly let me indicate on behalf of the government that it is our intention to oppose both of the second reading amend­ments that Senator Ludlam is proposing. It is our view that the proposed amendments would not have any practical effect upon the bill nor any practical effect in terms of constraining or obliging the government to do anything. We see them as being of no effect and we will oppose them.</para>
<para>In summing up on behalf of Minister Conroy, firstly let me say thank you to all honourable members for their contributions to the debate on the Broadcasting Legislation Amendment (Digital Dividend and Other Measures) Bill 2011. After its introduction in the House on 24 February 2011, the bill was referred to the Senate Environment, Com­munication and the Arts Legislation Com­mittee for inquiry, as Senator Birmingham touched upon. The committee tabled their report in the Senate on 21 March 2011 and it recommended that the bill be passed.</para>
<para>The bill introduces amendments to the Broadcasting Services Act 1992 and the Radiocommunications Act 1992 that are crucial to effectively implementing the restack of digital television channels needed to realise the digital dividend. On 24 June 2010, the government announced that 126 megahertz of broadcasting spectrum would be released as a digital dividend as a result of the switch-off of analog television services. The switch to digital-only television will be completed in Australia by 31 December 2013, releasing the channels used for analog television. The digital dividend will be released as a contiguous block of spectrum in the ultra-high frequency, or UHF, band. The UHF spectrum currently used for broad­casting services is highly valued for delivering wireless communication services, including superfast mobile broadband. The government aims to auction the digital dividend spectrum in the second half of 2012.</para>
<para>In order to release this highly valued spectrum, digital broadcasting services will need to be relocated—or, as Senator Fifield prefers, 'restacked'—out of the digital dividend spectrum and organised more efficiently within the remaining spectrum. The government intends that the digital dividend spectrum be cleared by 31 December 2014. While ACMA has some scope under its existing powers to commence digital channel restack planning, the bill would give it more flexible planning powers and allow the restack of digital television channels to occur in a timely and efficient manner. The proposed amendments will also improve the regulatory framework for digital switchover and the delivery of both terrestrial and satellite free-to-air digital television services.</para>
<para>During the inquiry of the Senate Environment and Communications Legisla­tion Committee into the provisions of the bill, some submissions raised concerns that the bill favoured satellite conversion over terrestrial conversion. The government recognises that both terrestrial infrastructure and a satellite service are required to provide all Australians with access to the full range of digital television services. Government policy does not advocate a preferred method of digital television reception. I might also take this opportunity to respond to Senator Birmingham's concerns regarding regional Australia by simply saying that this government is very proud indeed to have finally brought to viewers in regional and remote Australia, through our switchover program and the launch of a new satellite service, access to the same number of digital television channels as people in the capital cities enjoy. This is a historic outcome for viewers in regional and remote Australia, who for decades have received less choice and arguably lower quality reception in their television viewing than people have in the capital cities.</para>
<para>The bill will amend the conditional access scheme to provide commercial broadcasters in remote Western Australia with the opportunity to roll out their terrestrial digital television services before viewers they intend to serve can access the VAST satellite service. This will help to protect the integrity of the larger terrestrial television markets in remote Western Australia and avoids the need for viewers to purchase satellite reception equipment unnecessarily. The bill also proposes to allow viewers access to the VAST satellite service after a specified time after switchover in their licence area if it provides a superior number of commercial digital television services, including digital multichannels that are otherwise available terrestrially in their area. These provisions will provide the commercial broadcasters with the incentive to roll out all of their terrestrial digital television services before viewers in the area will be able to automatically access VAST.</para>
<para>Although commercial and national broadcasters can apply to the minister for exemption from converting terrestrial digital transmission sites under very limited circumstances, it is important to note that this exemption is not automatic. It is within the minister's discretion, having regard to the statutory criteria outlined in the bill, whether to grant a broadcaster an exemption. An exemption cannot be granted where a service has already commenced transmitting in digital. These provisions are intended to, amongst other things, minimise situations where consumers need to purchase both satellite and terrestrial reception equipment to receive the full suite of digital television channels. The bill will progress the government's digital television switchover program and will help realise the digital dividend, bringing significant social and economic benefits to all Australians. On behalf of the government, I commend the bill to the Senate.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:50</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a brief statement with respect to the amendments.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:50</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>G1N</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Leave is granted for two minutes.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you. I shall make it brief and try to cover both amendments at once. In relation to the amendment that I think we are considering first—that is, the one relating to self-help solutions and sites and the potential to be able to pool funds—this was an area that I spent some time discussing in my remarks during the second reading debate. The coalition are favourably disposed to support the motion of the Greens in that regard. We think that it makes a lot of sense, that it provides positive outcomes for communities in terms of increasing the scope of terrestrial services and has the opportunity to provide positive outcomes for taxpayers by minimising the amount spent on satellite subsidies. So I indicate our support in that regard.</para>
<para>In relation to the amendment relating to a review, which I think we will deal with subsequently, the coalition will not be supporting that amendment. I hope the government are in a process of, shall I say, 'continuous learning' with regard to the digital switchover—that is, that as problems are uncovered in each region, they actually learn the lessons and address them before the next region, and in particular address them before we get to the 2013 switchover of metropolitan areas around Australia. I do not know that a formal review part-way through the process is going to add to this. I think it is far more important for the government to actually be learning those lessons as they go, fixing it as they go and getting it right as they go. That is what the coalition would be urging them to do. Therefore we will not be supporting the amendment on sheet 7053 pertaining to a review.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:52</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LUDLAM</name>
    <name.id>I07</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a short statement.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:52</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>G1N</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Leave is granted for two minutes.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LUDLAM</name>
    <name.id>I07</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Then we can go into committee and we can leave these issues be. I thank Senator Birmingham for his support on at least one of these, as I think the issues that we were concerned about are sub­stantially pretty similar. It is about giving people time to make better arrangements, since they seem to be technically and economically feasible. I would invite the minister and maybe call him on his response when he spoke briefly to these amendments, saying—I am paraphrasing—'You are not compelling us to do anything so these amendments are irrelevant.' I think that is a rather cavalier attitude to take to an amendment which I believe the chamber will shortly carry that 'the government should extend the timeframes—as this amendment proposes—for consideration of self-help solutions and applications in subsidy areas of the SSS'. That is inviting the government to do something constructive.</para>
<para>We have moved this in the form of a second reading amendment, and perhaps I should get it drafted as a committee amendment to compel the government to do exactly that. But I thought that, as a sign of goodwill, particularly with coalition support, a second reading amendment effectively advises the government that the chamber wishes it to take action in a certain way. I do not think we are asking anything unreason­able at all. It does not compel the gov­ernment to unpick the structure of the subsidy scheme. We are inviting the government to take another look at some of the constructive proposals that have been set forth by local government associations and Broadcasting Australia. I wonder whether the minister might indicate that the government would be prepared to take this amendment in the spirit in which it is proposed.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LUDLAM</name>
    <name.id>I07</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I move second reading amendment on sheet 7053:</para>
<quote><para class="block">At the end of the motion, add:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">but the Senate is of the opinion that the Government should cause an independent review of the impact of the delivery of television services under this legislation on viewers across Australia, and in particular in regional and remote areas, to be undertaken no later than 2 years after the commencement of this legislation.</para></quote>
<para>Question negatived.</para>
<para>Original question, as amended, agreed to.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>In Committee</title>
            <page.no>2154</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:56</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LUDLAM</name>
    <name.id>I07</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>(   As I foreshadowed in the second reading debate, I have a number of questions that I would like to put to the minister relating to requests by emergency services authorities for the quarantining of 20-odd megahertz of the spectrum that is proposed to go to auction. I will not elaborate unless the minister wants me to. I just invite him to respond to those concerns.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:56</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FEENEY</name>
    <name.id>I0O</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>(   I thank Senator Ludlam. As I comprehend it, the issue here is state and territory public safety agencies seeking an allocation of digital dividend spectrum as a means of meeting their wireless broadband capability requirements. I think it is important for me to stress that the gov­ernment understands the critical importance of supporting our public safety agencies with the best possible communications networks.</para>
<para>The options for the best way to achieve the new mobile broadband capability sought by public safety agencies are—as you have touched upon—being looked at by the Attorney-General's Department. Senator Conroy's department and the Australian Communications and Media Authority, ACMA, are of course assisting the Attorney-General's Department in that endeavour. In fact, a roundtable meeting was held only this morning, on 10 May 2011, and that meeting was attended by public safety agencies, industry and Commonwealth agencies. In fact—this is hot off the press—I can advise that that meeting was also attended by the Attorney-General and Minister Conroy. At that meeting, agreement was reached to establish a steering committee with repre­sentatives from all interested parties to determine the best way to meet the spectrum needs of police and emergency services. This will involve ACMA working with police and emergency services to identify the appropriate spectrum to be reserved in the 800 band—which has been identified for public safety purposes in the harmonised band plans for the Asia-Pacific region. This is the appropriate and agreed process to address this issue, and I understand that there are no measures in this bill that in any way impede or otherwise affect that process.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:58</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LUDLAM</name>
    <name.id>I07</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>(   I have a couple of questions, but I first ask the minister whether or not he would be willing to table the document that he was reading from just then.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:59</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FEENEY</name>
    <name.id>I0O</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>(   It is my handwritten notes on the basis of a conversation. It is not such a glamorous document.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN</name>
    <name.id>G1N</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>( ):  It may not be decipherable other than to Senator Feeney.</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FEENEY</name>
    <name.id>I0O</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>  It is probably not the smoking gun you might be looking for, Senator Ludlam.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:59</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>(   In relation to the issue of emergency service networks and their access to spectrum, the coalition have been particularly aware of this issue and concerned for some time now. We are aware that people raised issues in relation to this legislation. We believe that there is some merit in ensuring that particular considera­tion be given to this issue, and that is why we moved to establish terms of reference on it for the Senate Environment and Communica­tions References Committee, which is undertaking an inquiry into the capacity of communication networks and emergency warning systems to deal with emergencies and natural disasters. They are broad terms of reference that have the capacity to deal with a range of potential issues, but it is important to note that the terms of reference also include a capacity and requirement for the committee to look at new and emerging technologies, including digital spectrum, that could improve preparation for responses to and recovery from an emergency or natural disaster.</para>
<para>The coalition sees this as an important issue. We are encouraged that the chamber—including, indeed, Senator Ludlam—supported us in ensuring that these terms of reference were passed through to the committee. We do think that it is critical that the concerns of those state and territory agencies as well as the concerns raised by many other groups about spectrum access for emergency services be heard and properly considered. We trust that the government, as part of their responsibility, will do that, and this chamber is already doing that through the Senate Environment and Communica­tions References Committee. We think that that is an appropriate forum in which to air all of those issues properly and to ensure that, if the case for particular spectrum to be allocated is valid, the committee will make recommendations to the government for that spectrum to be allocated. We would hope that the government would look favourably upon such recommendations.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:01</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LUDLAM</name>
    <name.id>I07</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Birmingham for that contribution. You are quite correct: we did support that committee reference. I think it is timely and it is certainly a very good idea. But does not go to the heart of the issue that I am raising here, so I will perhaps put a question to the minister. I understood that what you told us just then was that the roundtable, or however you defined it, had convened to discuss the allocation of spectrum in the 800-megahertz range—I think that is what you just said—which is not actually what they are asking for, and I wonder whether you would like to clear up that discrepancy before we move ahead.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:02</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FEENEY</name>
    <name.id>I0O</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I guess, Senator Ludlam, that you are interested in the 400-megahertz band. On the 400-megahertz band the government has already made significant progress through the COAG process—which I think you touched upon, Senator Ludlam-to deliver an agreed national framework for improved radio communications interoperability. In April 2010, the ACMA announced arrange­ments for the provision of harmonised spectrum for use by government agencies in the 400-megahertz band. Under those arrangements, several segments in the 403-megahertz to 470-megahertz frequency range were identified for the exclusive use of government. That exclusive use is primarily to support national security, law enforcement and emergency services but is also available to support broader government use once those core requirements have been compre­hensively met. Provision of this dedicated spectrum for emergency services require­ments in the 400-megahertz band will ensure interoperability of voice networks between different state jurisdictions. These arrange­ments complement the objectives developed by COAG under the national framework.</para>
<para>In conclusion, the government remains committed to supporting the needs of public safety agencies, and the government will continue to work with the states and territories to determine the most efficient and effective communications network to meet Australia's emergency management and public safety needs.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:04</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LUDLAM</name>
    <name.id>I07</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Actually, the issue that I addressed and my understanding of the area of spectrum that these organisations are most concerned about is in the 700-megahertz band, so it is well outside 400 megahertz. They are seeking a 20-megahertz slice of that spectrum, which, as I understand it, for technical reasons—and this is obviously not my specific area of expertise—carries further. It is a better piece of spectrum for the kind of equipment that these people seek to operate in that it can penetrate buildings and so on and not be subject to rain, other weather conditions or that kind of thing.</para>
<para>The question I put to you, and I would be happy if you could just give us a yes or no answer, is this: is the government committed to resolving these issues through the roundtable process that you have established prior to undertaking the auction—that is, will you commit to ensuring that the organisa­tions that you are with now at the table will have their concerns addressed before you give up that slice of what is effectively taxpayers property?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:05</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FEENEY</name>
    <name.id>I0O</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I am advised that the answer to that is yes. The issues will be resolved prior to auction.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:05</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LUDLAM</name>
    <name.id>I07</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>That was a succinct answer. I am a little bit taken aback and surprised. I thank the minister for that. I again invite the minister—through you, Senator Feeney—to resume communications with some of the local government authorities and other agencies who have been working on pooling the SSS, because I think there is potentially a good outcome there for everybody. Would the minister like to briefly address the question that I raised right before I moved the amendment? It was about the gov­ernment's attitude—and I certainly do not want to misquote the government's inten­tions—to the second reading amendment that the chamber just passed.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:06</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FEENEY</name>
    <name.id>I0O</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I am happy to do that, Senator Ludlam. I think you quite accurately characterised those two amendments put by you, one of which was passed only a few moments ago, as an expression of the will and sentiment of the Senate—and I think that is right. Those amendments do not amend the bill or impose any legal obligations on the government; rather, they are an opinion of the Senate expressed by the Senate. As a consequence of that, together with the fact that I am advised that a second reading amendment for a bill has no consequences for the House of Representatives and is rather an expression of opinion by the Senate, I said something to the effect—I cannot quite remember the phrase I used, forgive me—that these amendments would have no effect upon the bill. That was really what I was saying. I guess I made the remark on those two grounds. I cannot quite remember my phraseology, forgive me, but I guess I said something to the effect that these amendments would have no effect upon the bill. That is really what I was saying. I hope that is of assistance.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:07</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LUDLAM</name>
    <name.id>I07</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>That was certainly more politely worded than your comments prior to closing the second reading debate. I wonder whether the government can offer a commitment, then, whether or not they will extend time frames for the consideration of self-help solutions and applications in subsidy areas of the scheme. That is effectively what we are asking. Your response is, 'We're not legally obliged to do anything, so we're feeling free to ignore it'—again, I am paraphrasing. Can you offer a commitment as to whether the will of the Senate will be respected in this instance?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:08</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FEENEY</name>
    <name.id>I0O</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Notwithstanding your vicious paraphrasing, Senator Ludlam, the govern­ment's answer is that it is and remains committed to working with local commun­ities. It has already granted extensions to local governments. It appreciates that there are particular concerns and it will regularly review the progress of this work.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:08</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LUDLAM</name>
    <name.id>I07</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Can I just say by way of closing that I greatly preferred it when you stood up and just said yes. I have no other questions on this matter.</para>
<para>Bill agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill reported without amendments; report adopted.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Third Reading</title>
            <page.no>2158</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp></time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FEENEY</name>
    <name.id>I0O</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill be now read a third time.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a third time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Electoral and Referendum Amendment (Provisional Voting) Bill 2011</title>
          <page.no>2158</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body background="" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" style="" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint">
            <a type="Bill" href="r4529">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Electoral and Referendum Amendment (Provisional Voting) Bill 2011</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>2158</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:09</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Lovely to see you, Mr Acting Deputy President McGauran.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>WH4</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Likewise.</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak on the Electoral and Referendum Amendment (Provisional Voting) Bill 2011. The coalition's key concern when it comes to electoral legislation is that the integrity of the electoral roll is maintained and strengthened. This bill does neither of those things.</para>
<para>In 2006, the Howard government introduced legislation that required provisional voters to produce evidence of identity within seven days of a federal election or referendum. This legislation was introduced because the then government identified a loophole in the rules that surround provisional voting whereby the integrity of the electoral roll could be compromised by people enrolling in marginal electorates to influence the result in that seat, despite actually residing elsewhere.</para>
<para>Now, with this bill, the government seeks to repeal the evidence of identity require­ments introduced by the coalition to ensure that the Australian electoral system is not rorted and to deter people from failing to comply with Electoral Act. This government wants to water down legislation that was introduced with the express purpose of strengthening the accuracy and integrity of the electoral roll, and the coalition will not support it in doing so. The coalition is opposed to any measure that would weaken the proof of identity requirements relating to provisional voting because it would remove an important deterrent that is designed to prevent voters from failing to maintain an accurate enrolment. Weakening proof of identity requirements will also remove an important measure that acts to deter those who may seek to engage in electoral fraud through multiple voting.</para>
<para>The government's stated reason for this bill is that getting rid of the proof of identity requirements will mean that provisional votes will be treated the same as other classes of votes such as postal votes, pre-poll votes and absent votes. This, in the eyes of the Labor Party, is a good thing. That attitude, we believe, is misguided. Votes cast as provisional are provisional for a reason—often because the voter is not found to be on the roll or because two people present to vote under the same name.</para>
<para>In both these scenarios it is entirely reasonable to expect the voter to provide evidence of their identity. Without such evidence, the accuracy of the electoral roll is fundamentally compromised and the accuracy of election results could become compromised as well. If a voter is found not to be on the roll, it could be the result of their failure to maintain an accurate enrolment. If two people present to vote under the same name, it is clearly necessary and entirely appropriate for some proof of identity to be sought.</para>
<para>To quote my coalition colleagues' dissenting report to the Joint Standing Committee on Electoral Matters 2007 report:</para>
<para>Given that failure to properly maintain one's enrolment is a breach of the Act, it is not unreasonable for such persons to be subjected to a more stringent procedure to admit their vote, as a result of neglecting their responsibilities under the Act.</para>
<para>It is also not unreasonable for a more stringent procedure to apply before a vote is admitted for counting if two people are presenting to vote under the same name. The coalition believes that there must be consequences for people who fail to meet their obligations under the Electoral Act to maintain an accurate enrolment. If this bill passes through the parliament, there will be little incentive for people to uphold obligations surrounding their enrolment. If people have no incentive to maintain an accurate enrolment, then the integrity of the electoral roll as a whole will be compro­mised. The number of people casting provisional votes has increased over the past recent years. Between 1994 and 2004 the number of provisional votes rose from 112,344 to 180,878. In 2007 nearly 80 per cent of voters who wanted to cast a provisional vote presented evidence of identity. In 2010, 96 per cent of people seeking to cast a provisional vote presented evidence of identity. The high rate of compliance with these regulations demonstrates the effectiveness of the coalition's 2006 legislation.</para>
<para>It is interesting to note that although 81.65 per cent of provisional votes were rejected in 2010, only 28,000 out of a total of 203,488 provisional votes lodged were rejected as a result of a failure to produce evidence of identity. That is under 14 per cent of provisional votes. The rest of the votes were rejected due to other issues that did not relate in any way to evidence of identity. And less than half of those 14 per cent of voters were subsequently found on the certified list. So this bill can hardly be supported on the grounds that the 2006 legislation resulted in the exclusion of a huge proportion of eligible voters from participating in elections.</para>
<para>The coalition's position on the issues surrounding the electoral role has been consistent and justified over many years. The Liberal and National parties are committed to ensuring that electoral fraud is minimised and that the integrity of the electoral roll and electoral system are maintained and strengthened.</para>
<para>The 2006 legislation which this bill seeks to repeal was introduced not for partisan political reasons but with the very best of intentions. The coalition sought to strengthen the electoral system's defences against reporting by those who may seek to multiple vote, and to reinforce the integrity of the electoral roll. This bill, by repealing the proof of identity requirements currently in place for those who wish to place a provisional vote will leave the electoral system open to manipulation, and will compromise the integrity of the electoral roll.</para>
<para>It is entirely appropriate that a voter's failure to maintain an accurate enrolment as per the obligations under the Electoral Act result in them being subject to a slightly more stringent process. And the experience of the last election has shown that 96 per cent of those who seek to place a provisional vote do not find it to onerous a task to have to produce identification when presenting at the voting booth.</para>
<para>The opposition will support measures that allow the electoral roll to be maintained as accurately and truthfully as possible. But the coalition will continue to oppose any measures that will weaken the deterrents to fail to comply with the Electoral Act. This bill does exactly that, and will likely damage the integrity of the electoral roll. As such, the coalition will be opposing this bill.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:17</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAROL BROWN</name>
    <name.id>F49</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to make my contribution to the Electoral and Referendum Amendment (Provisional Voting) Bill 2011. This bill amends the Commonwealth Electoral Act 1918 and the Referendum (Machinery Provisions) Act 1984.</para>
<para>Essentially, the bill will repeal the requirement for provisional voters to provide evidence of their identity before the votes are admitted to preliminary scrutiny. As senators in this place would be aware, a provisional vote is a type of declaration vote cast by an elector at a polling place on polling day. Like all declaration votes, it is a vote that is sealed inside an envelope. After this, the elector's details, including name, address, date of birth and signature are written on the outside of the envelope.</para>
<para>There are four main reasons an elector may be required to cast a provisional vote: the elector's name cannot be found on the certified list, the elector's name is marked on the certified list indicating that the elector has already voted, the polling official has doubts regarding the elector's identity or the voter is a registered silent elector whose address does not appear on the certified list. Currently, the Electoral Act determines that an elector who casts a provisional vote must provide a polling official with proof of identity at the time of voting, or to the Australian Electoral Commission—the AEC office—by the first Friday following polling day. If the proof of identity is not provided by the deadline, the envelope containing the ballot paper is excluded from the preliminary scrutiny and is not counted.</para>
<para>As the Special Minister of State, the Hon. Gary Gray MP, rightly points out, this requirement was put in place by the previous government in 2006. It resulted in a situation where provisional votes were dealt with in a way that was inconsistent with the treatment of other kinds of declaration votes, namely, absent, postal and pre-poll votes. This legislation will repeal the proof of identity requirement and ensure that all declaration votes are treated equally.</para>
<para>This bill will replace the proof of identity provision with a test which has been used in previous elections. The test which has been previously used is conducted by the divisional returning officer—the DRO. The DRO compares the signature on the provisional vote with the signature of the elector on their previously lodged enrolment form if there are any queries about the identity of the elector. Currently, the requirement for only provisional voters, and not other categories of declaration votes such as absent, postal and pre-poll, to provide proof of identity leads to inconsistencies in the treatment of different types of declaration votes. Essentially, the current arrangement means that an elector who is eligible to vote, and who only has a provisional vote rejected at preliminary scrutiny because of failure to provide evidence of identity would have their vote counted if they had instead voted by absent vote, postal vote all pre-poll declaration. There is no reason why otherwise valid provisional votes should be treated differently to other forms of declaration voting.</para>
<para>As a provisional vote can be cast in a referendum, this bill also amends the referendum act to be consistent with amendments made to the Electoral Act. At the 2007 federal election over 27,000 provisional votes were rejected at preliminary scrutiny because the voter did not provide evidence of identity by the first Friday following polling day. At the 2010 federal election over 28,000 provisional votes were rejected for the same reason. There are a number of reasons why electors may not provide proof of identity by the first Friday after the election. One reason is that electors may not be motivated to provide evidence of identity because the result of the election is already known. It does not necessarily indicate an attempt by electors to fraudulently vote.</para>
<para>The AEC has undertaken further examination of the 28,000 provisional votes cast at the 2010 election and identified 12,000 instances where the name of the voter was subsequently found on the certified list. So these people were in fact eligible voters, highlighting that the 2006 amendments are simply unworkable. What we are doing in this bill is making an amendment to restore the custom and practice of dealing with provisional votes.</para>
<para>The Australian Electoral Commission has provided support for this amendment bill through their submission to the current inquiry of the Joint Standing Committee on Electoral Matters into the 2010 federal election. The AEC has recommended that the requirement for production of evidence of identity by provisional voters should be repealed. The AEC believes that details provided by the elector on the outside of the envelope, such as the voter's name, address, date of birth and signature, allow the Electoral Commission to determine the voter's eligibility to have their vote included without the requirement for additional proof of identity.</para>
<para>It is important that we pass this measure to avoid inconsistencies with other forms of declaration voting. This is to ensure that our electoral system supports all eligible voters having their votes counted. This legislation clears up the unworkable 2006 amendments by repealing the proof of identity requirement for provisional votes and ensures that all declaration votes are treated equally. This is an amendment, as I have said, that is recommended by the AEC. I would urge all those opposite to support this legislation.</para>
<para>I want to recap exactly what this bill seeks to do because the opposition, as I understand it, will not be supporting this piece of legislation. I ask that they go back and have a look at exactly what the legislation seeks to do, and that is to increase the franchise. The Electoral and Referendum Amendment (Provisional Voting) Bill 2011 will repeal the requirement for provisional voters to provide evidence of identity before their votes are admitted to preliminary scrutiny so that they are treated no differently to absentee votes and other declaration type votes. The bill also will implement recommendation 2 of the report of the Joint Standing Committee on Electoral Matters on the conduct of the 2007 federal election and matters related thereto, which has been tabled. This measure was also one of the federal Labor government's 2007 election commitments. This piece of legislation delivers on that commitment.</para>
<para>Basically, we have an election commitment that this bill seeks to deliver on, we have the Joint Standing Committee on Electoral Matters recommending it in their 2007 report and we have the AEC suggesting that this provision needs to be repealed. As I said earlier, of the 28,000 votes that were set aside from the 2010 federal election, 12,000 were found, after a check on the certified roll, actually to be on the roll. That result is not particularly surprising, as a polling official will put the vote in an envelope if they have any doubts, as people in this chamber well know.</para>
<para>There is no real reason for us to treat this type of declaration vote any differently to other types of declaration votes. It is well known on this side of the chamber that these amendments were put in the act in 2006 for political reasons. It was a decision by the then Howard government to make it as hard as possible for people to cast a valid vote, for people to have their democratic say in an election. What this says to people is, 'If you are left off accidentally or the polling official just cannot find your name then we are going to place more onerous task on you than we would on any other elector.' We say to them: 'We will put your vote in an envelope. We will take your name, address, date of birth and then we are going to set that aside and you have until the Friday following the election to come down and show us proof of identity that you are indeed this person.' It is something we do not do for any other type of declaration vote.</para>
<para>Those changes were made by the then Howard government to make it harder for a certain group of electors, probably because they felt they were less likely to vote for them. (<inline font-style="italic">Time expired)</inline></para>
<para>Sitting suspended from 18:30 to 20:00</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BUDGET</title>
        <page.no>2162</page.no>
        <type>BUDGET</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Statement and Documents</title>
          <page.no>2162</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>20:00</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I table the budget statement for 2011-12 and other documents as indicated on the list circulated in the chamber. I seek leave to move a motion in relation to the documents.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank the Senate. I move:</para>
<para>That the Senate take note of the Budget statement and documents.</para>
<para> <inline font-style="italic">The list read as fo</inline> <inline font-style="italic">l</inline> <inline font-style="italic">lows—</inline></para>
<quote><para class="block">Budget statement and documents 2011-12</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Budget speech 2011-12—Statement by the Treasurer (Mr Swan), dated 10 May 2011.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Budget papers—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">No. 1—Budget strategy and outlook 2011-12.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">No. 2—Budget measures 2011-12.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">No. 3—Australia's federal relations 2011-12.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">No. 4—Agency resourcing 2011-12.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Ministerial statements—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australia's international development assistance program 2011-12</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Investing in regional Australia</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Investing to close the gap between Indigenous and non-Indigenous Australians</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">National mental health reform 2011-12</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Our cities, our future—A national urban policy for a productive, sustainable and liveable future</para></quote>
<para>Debate (on motion by Senator Wong) adjourned.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Proposed Expenditure, Consideration by Estimates Committees</title>
          <page.no>2162</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>20:00</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I table particulars of proposed and certain expenditure in accordance with the list circulated in the chamber and seek leave to move a motion to refer the documents to legislation committees.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<para>That the documents be referred to legislation committees for the consideration of estimates.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Portfolio Budget Statements</title>
          <page.no>2162</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp></time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT (Senator Trood)</name>
    <name.id>e6a</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I table the portfolio budget statements for 2011-12 for the Department of the Senate and the Department of Parliamentary Services. Copies are available from the Senate Table Office.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>20:01</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I table portfolio budget statements for 2011-12 for portfolio and executive departments in accordance with the list circulated in the chamber. I can advise the chamber that copies are available from the Senate Table Office.</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">The list read as follows—</inline></para>
<para>Budget Related Documents—10 May 2011</para>
<para>2011-12 Portfolio Budget Statements (PBS)</para>
<para>1.1   Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry portfolio</para>
<para>1.2   Attorney-General's portfolio</para>
<para>1.3   Broadband, Communications and the Digital Economy portfolio</para>
<para>1.4   Climate Change and Energy Efficiency portfolio</para>
<para>1.5A   Defence portfolio</para>
<para>1.5B   Defence portfolio (Department of Veterans' Affairs)</para>
<para>1.6   Education, Employment and Workplace Relations portfolio</para>
<para>1.7   Families, Housing, Community Services and Indigenous Affairs portfolio</para>
<para>1.8   Finance and Deregulation portfolio</para>
<para>1.9   Foreign Affairs and Trade portfolio</para>
<para>1.10   Health and Ageing portfolio</para>
<para>1.11   Human Services portfolio</para>
<para>1.12   Immigration and Citizenship portfolio</para>
<para>1.13   Infrastructure and Transport portfolio</para>
<para>1.14   Innovation, Industry, Science and Research portfolio</para>
<para>1.15A   Prime Minister and Cabinet portfolio</para>
<para>1.15B   Prime Minister and Cabinet portfolio (Department of Regional Australia, Regional Development and Local Government)</para>
<para>1.16   Resources, Energy and Tourism portfolio</para>
<para>1.17   Sustainability, Environment, Water, Population and Communities portfolio</para>
<para>1.18   Treasury portfolio</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>ADJOURNMENT</title>
        <page.no>2163</page.no>
        <type>ADJOURNMENT</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Abbeyfield House</title>
          <page.no>2163</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>20:02</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BILYK</name>
    <name.id>HZB</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>On 6 March this year, I had the opportunity to visit McMullen Abbeyfield House in Huonville in southern Tasmania for its 10th birthday celebrations. McMullen Abbeyfield House, in Huonville, is part of Abbeyfield Australia, which is the peak national body that represents 26 affiliated Abbeyfield associations. Across Australia, there are 23 Abbeyfield houses and three hostel aged care facilities. These facilities are located in Tasmania, Victoria, South Australia, New South Wales, the ACT and Queensland. Tasmania has five Abbeyfield houses, with the others being in Burnie, Launceston, Chigwell and Glenorchy. Tasmania is certainly well represented in Abbeyfield houses, given the state's small population, but bearing in mind the percentage of the population over 65 this is possibly not surprising.</para>
<para>McMullen Abbeyfield House is a group home that encourages independent living in a supportive environment. Residents come and go as they please, retaining their indepen­dence and personal interests, but they have the company of others if they choose to socialise in shared areas of the home. McMullen House has a wonderful vegetable garden and many fruit trees. Many of the residents enjoy harvesting the wide variety of vegetables and fruit grown and also cook and preserve much of the produce. Indeed, I was quite envious of the many preserve jars on the wall unit.</para>
<para>The residents have a real sense of pride and belonging in their home. They have a housekeeper and are provided with home-cooked meals. The residents tell me the food is wonderful, and if they want to cook they are encouraged to do so. I think this is one of the aspects that makes the facility a real home for many: the fact that they can make a cake, cook a dinner or just be in the kitchen with the housekeeper.</para>
<para>Costs are met by residents paying 70 per cent of the base pension plus 100 per cent of their rent assistance to Abbeyfield. Payments cover food, accommodation, cleaning, materials and power, plus a gardener for those bigger gardening jobs, and rates on the building. If family visit and wish to stay overnight, there is a guest room, and family and friends can stay for meals, both at small cost. This is a real sense of home; it is not at all institutionalised. There is a real sense of warmth and personality, and the residents really enjoy the mix of independence, while still feeling supported. A couple of the residents told me it was the best move they had ever made. McMullen Abbeyfield House was largely funded by a private estate. Land and the equivalent costs of seven rooms and en suites were included. The remaining three rooms were funded by the state government and the normal public housing eligibility criteria apply.</para>
<para>There is another Abbeyfield House, in the northern suburbs of Hobart. Abbeyfield Glenorchy was developed with funding under the Local Government Community Housing Program, and a contribution from the Commonwealth government, at the time the Keating government. The Common­wealth government funding came in the form of two separate grants, $440,000 in the 1992-93 financial year and $40,000 in the 1993-94 financial year. This project was also greatly supported by Rotary, Lions and the Trust Bank Foundation.</para>
<para>While I am mentioning Abbeyfield Glenorchy, I would like to congratulate the five people who were awarded life membership of Abbeyfield Glenorchy Inc. for their service last year. They are Mrs Anne Gunn, Mrs June Flood, Mrs Merle Diakovsky, Mr Max Maynard and Mr Leo Hurst. Mr Hurst is also a director on the Abbeyfield Australia board. He is joined there by fellow Tasmanian David Kay, who is the national treasurer.</para>
<para>Abbeyfield's focus has been providing assisted group housing for Australians aged 55 and over. However, there is now also accommodation for people with mild to moderate intellectual disabilities. This change in direction has occurred as a result of need in the community.</para>
<para>Abbeyfield Australia is part of a worldwide movement with 18 countries using the concept of group housing, which began in the United Kingdom in 1955. The concept came about when Richard Carr-Gomm volunteered his services to help elderly people needing practical assistance and companionship. Mr Carr-Gomm went further than just being a helper and companion. He purchased a house, made it available for people to live in and became the housekeeper, although this was only for a very short time. Mr Carr-Gomm then founded the Carr-Gomm Society, which operated on the same principles. Abbeyfield in Australia began in 1986 with a home in Melbourne. Other countries using the concept include Belgium, Canada, France, Germany, Ireland, Italy, Japan, Jersey, the Netherlands, New Zealand, Poland, South Africa, the United States of America, and an associate member, Mexico. At present more than 9,000 people live in 850 Abbeyfield houses worldwide. Abbeyfield Australia is a registered not-for-profit company and registered charity.</para>
<para>The national peak body advocates for all Abbeyfield houses and helps to maintain a management and support framework for all associations. This includes providing: legal and governance advice; national repre­sentation and advocacy; planning, building design and project management; a national framework of policies and operational procedures; a comprehensive suite of tar­geted insurance policies; affiliation and man­age­ment agreements; ongoing operational guidance; and collegial support and volunteer networking opportunities</para>
<para>Abbeyfield Australia understands that Australia's demand for affordable housing will continue to increase at a rapid rate as the 'baby boomer' generation ages. They also recognise that group living is a highly cost-effective way in which to provide quality community based accommodation. Abbeyfield Australia has both the capacity and the experience to assist in meeting the demands of the nation's changing population.</para>
<para>Each Abbeyfield house is managed by a local incorporated association with its own volunteer committee of management. The local association must manage the house in line with the Abbeyfield Australia gov­ernance principles and procedures. The association is responsible for: compliance with tenancy legislation and food safety standards; induction and continuing liaison with residents; employment of the live-in housekeeper; budgeting and financial management; and consultation with residents on both an individual and a house level</para>
<para>Abbeyfield Australia is hopeful that it will be able to help meet the demands for affordable and cost-effective community housing. Abbeyfield believes its expertise and community volunteer commitment, combined with financial support from the Australian government, can deliver good outcomes in an economically responsible way. Once built, there is no need for ongoing financial support from government as all operational costs are met through the rent. The Abbeyfield business model allows for consistent outcomes while maximising local community involvement and ownership.</para>
<para>Each Abbeyfield house has room for 10 residents with each having their own bedroom with ensuite and tea and coffee facilities. Shared areas of the house include lounge and dining areas, a laundry and an outdoor area. When I was at Abbeyfield House in Huonville each room had its own little outdoor area and many of the residents had tables and chairs where they could relax with family. As mentioned, a housekeeper provides nutritious meals and the maintenance and house costs are covered by the local association.</para>
<para>One of the most important things about an Abbeyfield house is that they are designed to feel like a home and not like an institution or facility. Abbeyfield residents experience many benefits, which may include: affordable, supportive, safe and long-term secure accommodation; greater indepen­dence for older residents; an opportunity for people with disability to move out from their parents' home; enhanced social relationships and companionship; increased community participation; and the lessening of isolation for those people who live in isolated areas. They also allow people to stay within the area they have grown up in. That was a great benefit at the Huonville home I visited. There is also additional opportunities to access work, especially for residents with disability. It eases the burden on family members who have been previously caring for the resident.</para>
<para>I believe Abbeyfield is a great concept in that it provides affordable housing as well as allowing residents to live independently while still receiving support when needed. Abbeyfield Australia has developed a strategic plan for 2010 to 2015 and it has set a target of having 46 households across the nation by the end of that period. With that many houses, about 650 people will be living in Abbeyfield accommodation. Further to this, by 2025 it is envisaged Abbeyfield Australia will have more than 100 properties accommodating approximately 1,300 people.</para>
<para>In conclusion, I would point out that Australia has approximately 522 local government areas. If there were just one house in each local government area that would accommodate more than 5,200 people. That is certainly something worth thinking about.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Citizenship</title>
          <page.no>2166</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>20:12</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BARNETT</name>
    <name.id>00auf</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I stand tonight to speak to a matter of serious concern relating to the professionalism, or lack of it, of the Minister for Immigration and Citizenship, Chris Bowen. On 4 April the minister, on behalf of the Labor Gillard government, caved in to coalition pressure and overturned Labor's ban on the distribution of Bibles and other holy books as gifts at citizenship ceremonies. Labor's changes to the Australian Citizenship Ceremonies Code in 2008 specifically banned the giving of Bibles and other holy books as gifts at citizenship ceremonies. That was confirmed by the Department of Immigration and Citizenship in answers to questions on notice that I put in October last year and again in the Senate in February. The ban was also accepted by the relevant minister in this place, Senator Kim Carr, in answer to a question I asked. He even tried to blame it on the Howard government. But we see that, as of 4 April, Minister Bowen tried to pretend that there was never a ban at all—both ministers directly conflicting with each other.</para>
<para>The serious concern I have relates to the lack of a response from the minister, Chris Bowen, to correspondence I forwarded to him on 28 October seeking clarification of the matter following Senate estimates in October. I wrote:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Dear Minister</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I am writing to seek clarification on the current confusion surrounding the status of Bibles as "gifts" under the Australian Citizenship Ceremonies Code. I refer also to recent communications I have had with the Bible Society of Tasmania who have serious concerns. I seek your confirmation that Bibles have not been—and will not be—banned at citizenship ceremonies.</para></quote>
<para>I never received a response to that letter. On 12 January I followed up in a courteous way in another letter. I wrote:</para>
<quote><para class="block">I refer to my previous correspondence dated October 28, 2010 addressing the confusion surrounding the status of Bibles as "gifts" under the current Australian Citizenship Ceremonies Code.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">As at the date of this letter no response has been received. Your early response would be greatly appreciated.</para></quote>
<para>And still no response. On 28 March, there was still no response. So what do I do? I write to the Prime Minister, the Honourable Julia Gillard, and ask her to take up the matter with her cabinet colleague Minister Chris Bowen. As of today, Tuesday, 10 May, there is still no response from this government.</para>
<para>If they are treating a senator, a fellow member of the federal parliament, in this way, how are they treating members of the public? With disdain and contempt, no doubt. The lack of a response from this minister is outrageous. It is not only patronising and demeaning; it is condescending, disrespectful and downright insulting. For the minister not to provide any response in any way, shape or form—either via an email, a hard copy letter or a telephone call from his office—is not good enough.</para>
<para>The reason I raise this in the Senate is that this parliament is meant to have some sort of standards. There is meant to be some sort of ethic to the way that they deliberate. Clearly it is not good enough. I raised it with the Prime Minister on 28 March, and here we are early-ish in May and there has still been no response—absolutely nothing. If they are treating a fellow member of the federal parliament in this way, how are they treating members of the public—with the same level of disdain and contemptuous behaviour? That is a question I pose, and it remains to be answered.</para>
<para>Why would the minister not respond? Clearly, there is a conflict in understanding with respect to their views on whether or not there was a ban. Clearly there is a conflict between Senator Kim Carr and the minister. It is on the Senate <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline>. He put out a media release in early April, indicating that they overturned the ban. He did not use those words; members of the public have used those words. Indeed, the <inline font-style="italic">Mercury </inline>newspaper used those words. Their headline on that day, 5 April, was 'Unholy row ends as bibles stay'. I congratulate Bruce Mounster for writing that report, which read as follows:</para>
<para>AN unholy row over a ban on the issuing of bibles as gifts at citizenship ceremonies has finally ended.</para>
<para>A campaign led by Tasmanian Liberal senator Guy Barnett since last October against "political correctness gone mad" bore fruit yesterday when federal Immigration and Citizenship Minister Chris Bowen overturned the ban.</para>
<para>The row flared after Clarence Council was ordered by Immigration Department officials to stop proffering bibles, supplied to ceremonies by the Bible Society of Australia.</para>
<para>Hobart City Council and others in Tasmania had already stopped the practice.</para>
<para>Clarence Mayor Jock Campbell yesterday said the ban had been foolish.</para>
<para>"It was an attempt at political correctness and in my opinion stupid," Alderman Campbell said.</para>
<para>The <inline font-style="italic">Mercury</inline> got it right and I thank them for covering that story. But I would like to know whether it is right and appropriate for a minister of this government not to respond to or to communicate in any way with a fellow member of the federal parliament.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Humphries</name>
    <name.id>KO6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Typical!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BARNETT</name>
    <name.id>00auf</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Is it typical, Senator Humphries? If so, that is very disappointing, but I am not surprised. I would ask those on the other side in this chamber to take it up with the minister and ask, 'Why haven't you responded? Are you treating fellow members of parliament with disdain and contempt in the same way you treat members of the public?' That question has been asked. Two letters have been sent. It was raised in Senate estimates. I have raised it a third time in writing to the Prime Minister. Nothing has happened. Be it on your own heads in terms of the manner in which you behave in this place.</para>
<para>Finally, in the few moments I have remaining, I would like to pay a special tribute tonight to the world champion from Launceston, Tasmania, Daniel Geale. He is known as the 'real deal'. He was born and bred in Launceston. He studied at Brooks High School in Launceston. He has stunned the world by becoming a world champion, winning the International Boxing Federation middle-weight crown in Germany, just a few days ago. It was Sunday the 8th, and it was reported widely across the nation and in particular in the Tasmanian media. I thank the media there, including the <inline font-style="italic">Launceston Examiner</inline><inline font-style="italic">,</inline> for giving him the appropriate recognition.</para>
<para>It was against the odds, it was in Germany, it was against a German and it was in front of a parochial crowd. He is only 30 years old and he still has a very long way to go. He is now a world champion. I say congratulations to Daniel Geale, to his team, to his family. Congratulations and well done.</para>
<para>I particularly note the comments by Graeme George, his trainer, who had trained him as a young boy in Launceston. He said that he would like to make the first defence of his IBF middle-weight crown in Tasmania and has urged the state government to get behind the state's newest world champion to make sure that it happens. I want to support that call and call for the state government, the Labor government in Tasmania, to try and wriggle out of the despair and dismay that it is in at the moment—the wrecking of the Tasmanian economy, the trashing of the budget and the sacking of thousands of Tasmanian public servants and others—and just for a moment to grab hold of this wonderful opportunity, get behind it and support this event, so that the defence of this title can take place in Tasmania. It would do wonders not just for tourism and not just for the people who would attend such an event, but Tasmania would be the eyes of the world. The international media and tele­vision would be focusing on Tasmania for such an event. I hope that other members and senators in this place and those in Tasmania as well will get behind this push to make sure that Daniel Geale can defend his IBF title in Tasmania. Wouldn't that be just fantastic? Wouldn't it just be so good?</para>
<para>I also note that it is beamed all around the world. It would be a big confidence boost for Tasmania in terms of the hosting of events. There are a whole range of different sporting events but this would be one of the biggest opportunities, and we should grasp it with both hands. I call on the state government to get behind this call, make it a success and give Daniel Geale the honour that he deserves. I thank the Senate.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Mothers</title>
          <page.no>2168</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>20:22</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator JACINTA COLLINS</name>
    <name.id>GB6</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Following Mothers Day, I want to speak this evening about the privilege I had recently to be in a roomful of true 'supermums' while presenting the Victorian Mother of the Year award, hosted by Barnardos. Being a Victorian senator is indeed a privilege and a role that I relish, but being a mum is an even greater privilege and a role I delight in.</para>
<para>I was interested to read in the papers recently about Gail Kelly, the Westpac boss, speaking about how she used to cope when she had four children under the age of three—triplets amongst them. One of Australia's most successful businesswomen, Mrs Kelly revealed that she briefly checked one of her babies into the paediatric ward of a local hospital so that she could get some sleep. Mrs Kelly admitted to once getting caught up in a business call on her car phone and totally forgetting that she was supposed to be taking her young son to school. She pulled into her work car space only to hear a little voice in the backseat saying, 'Mum, have you forgotten about me?' Another time, neighbours complained about the noise from her little girl, because the girl's screaming was interfering with their plans to have some drinks in their garden. Noting that the noise had actually stopped, Mrs Kelly told them, 'Don't worry, I just killed her.' As we all know, it pays to have a sense of humour as a mum.</para>
<para>It is a great privilege to celebrate the fact that mothering bonds many of us. We may not earn Mrs Kelly's salary and we may not have smashed the glass ceiling in the way that she has, but what we have in common is more powerful than any of that: our kids, our shared experiences as mothers, and doing the best we can, day in and day out. Whilst Mrs Kelly said she was uncomfortable with the term 'supermum', I am not—particularly when I had the pleasure of being among so many of them at the Barnardos function—and it is these mothers that I think we can and should celebrate. This is the 16th year of Barnardos hosting the Mother of the Year awards, and I am thrilled that they celebrated the achievements of mothers and their contributions to our community. As we all know, there is no way we could put a figure on everything that mothers do. What is important is that we continue to highlight how vital mothers are at every stage of life and that we continue to promote and support motherhood.</para>
<para>I would like to say a few words about a debate—some call it a 'war'—that I had hoped had been settled long ago; but, unfortunately, it is still alive and well today. That is the 'battle' between the stay-at-home mum and the working mum. I noticed recently an article in the <inline font-style="italic">Herald Sun</inline> with two pictures: one of a stay-at-home mum, surrounded by her kids, and the other of a working mum at her desk. The story revealed that a new survey had found that mums feel stigmatised—whatever they do! Worst of all, other mums are the biggest offenders for making them feel bad about their choices. Almost 60 per cent of working Mums were made to feel that they were not taking parenting seriously enough, while 40 per cent of stay-at-home mums experienced negativity about their decision not to be in the paid workforce.</para>
<para>Recently, radio presenter Jackie O said that debate about her returning to work two months after giving birth made her feel like a second-rate mum. One Melbourne mum set up a parent-support website after other mums called her 'evil' for putting her three-month-old son into child care so that she could return to university study.</para>
<para>What is going on here? Why have mothers declared war on each other? Since when did we rate mums as first class, second class and so on? Why did we go tribal, forming into camps, defending our territory and throwing spears at others who have made decisions different to our own? At the risk of using a cliché, surely we should focus on the things that unite us rather than those that divide us. In fact, many mothers do different things at different stages of their family processes. As I said earlier, our common bond is our kids, and what a powerful bond that is. We need each other's help and support more than ever. Surely we can rise above this divisiveness, because it really is sowing guilt and creating real harm where we should be offering encouragement and support.</para>
<para>I was not particularly interested in whether the three Barnardos finalists in Victoria—Sharon Bailey, Dianne Brown and Shirley Iaconis—were stay-at-home mums or working mums because, really, that does not matter. Having said that, I do believe it is crucial that babies have the opportunity to bond with their parents, particularly their mothers, in those vital first months and years. That is why I am so pleased and proud to be part of this government that has established Australia's first paid parental leave scheme to support that. What matters most of all for our children is their safety, their care and their happiness. What also really matters is whether our mums have received the love and support they have needed along the way, and still need, because the job of mothering never ends.</para>
<para>It is my sincere hope that mums can stop beating up on each other—stop the snide remarks and judgments—and unite under the banner of motherhood, declaring loudly and proudly that we are mothers first. I also hope that we can create a culture where we celebrate and genuinely support all mothers, not just those who fit our personal definitions. That also means reaching out to other groups of more marginalised mums—like teenage mothers, who are often unfairly judged and treated, like single mothers and any mum you know who is struggling, for whatever reason. Haven't we all struggled at times?</para>
<para>I read with interest the profiles of the three Barnardos Victorian finalists, and one thing they all share is their positive outlook and their selfless, gutsy attitudes as well as their genuine desire to help others and to put others' needs before their own. I really was inspired by their stories. The world is a much better place for having Sharon Bailey, Dianne Brown and Shirley Iaconis in it, and I salute them for their courage and com­mitment as mothers and carers of a broader family network. I also congratulate Barnardos Australia's 2011 Mother of the Year—Rebecca Healy, from the Northern Territory. At just 25, the mother of two has really turned her life around. After leaving home at 12, Rebecca lived in refuges for seven years and was taken in by friends. At 19, she decided to clean up her act—which included buying her first home and losing 50 kilos. As well as being a single mum to her two boys aged four and three, Rebecca also cares for her 16-year-old sister full time and is an emergency foster parent. She works as an Indigenous economic development officer and is a passionate advocate for local youth. What an inspiration for young woman and mothers. I read recently that children are happiest when their mothers are happy. But, according to the research, when their mothers were unhappy, only 55 per cent of youngsters were satisfied with their home life. Interestingly, the study found that a father's happiness makes no real difference to his offspring. What this tells me—as if we needed research to prove it—is that kids need happy mothers. As Rebecca Healy puts it, 'a happy healthy mum equals happy healthy children.' While on some days as mums we don't feel particularly happy, I know that most of the time mothers make tremendous efforts to be happy for our kids. Everything a mother does is for her kids: to ensure that they are happy and healthy and to ensure that their family life is strong and stable. I was delighted to present the Victorian Mother of the Year Award and to speak about a subject I am passionate about—that is, that we should do more to promote motherhood.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Dairy Industry</title>
          <page.no>2170</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>20:31</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'BRIEN</name>
    <name.id>8O6</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Tonight I take the opportunity to speak about the Senate Economics References Committee's recently completed second interim report on its inquiry into the impacts of supermarket price decisions on the dairy industry. Even though I will not be around for the conclusion of that inquiry in the second half of this year, I have been around for a considerable part of the history of the dairy industry's experience of deregulation, including the process of the states agreeing to deregulate their industries back in 1999. It was at that stage a policy was put forward by the leaders of the dairy industry and it was ultimately supported by the government and the opposition, even though there was a Senate inquiry at the time regarding deregulation in the course of which a number of important findings were made. One of the findings was that there was a risk that , in the process of deregulation, the supermarkets might seek to capture more of the value of the dairy industry than they had hitherto, at the expense of the dairy industry. How true that protection turned out to be!</para>
<para>Arising from that process, the gov­ernment, with the support of the opposition and at the request of the industry, implemented a process of levying consumers to supply money which would go to assist in the restructuring of the dairy industry. So, for every litre of milk that consumers purchased, they paid 11c towards that levy which, until it was abolished in 2008, raised $1.8 billion. Consumers paid $1.8 billion towards the rearrangements in the dairy industry, including payments to farmers to leave the industry and payments which allowed farmers to re-equip their dairy operations.</para>
<para>The price that farmers are paid for milk has often been at issue between farmers and dairy processors of varying sorts. It has often been the subject of conflict and consternation for farmers. Of course, the fresh milk industry was the key focus of the deregulation process because that was the part of the dairy industry that was regulated in states such as New South Wales, Queensland and Western Australia . In those states, the production of milk was much more dependent on regulation than it was in states such as Victoria which, of course, produces over 60 percent of the milk produced in Australia.</para>
<para>It is interesting to note that, well after deregulation had occurred, the <inline font-style="italic">Weekly Tim</inline>es recorded in an article of 20 February 2009 that the cost of milk to processors had risen in the previous year by 12c to 15c a litre, yet supermarkets were only paying processors another 9c a litre—less, in fact, for their privately branded product, and this has been the subject of great consternation in recent times. So at all times since deregulation there has been a testy relationship between processors and the supermarkets as to the price processors were paid for their milk, yet at some times dairy farmers have done much better than they have been doing in recent years, particularly as, immediately before the global financial crisis, dairy farmers around the country were being paid much higher prices than they were at the beginning of deregulation.</para>
<para>In the period since deregulation we have seen the emergence of two markets for dairy farmers in this country: the markets—the states of Victoria, Tasmania and South Australia—in which the dairy industry relies upon exports for the bulk of their production and the markets—the states of New South Wales, Queensland and Western Australia—in which the dairy industry relies on the production of drinking milk. Over the period since deregulation, a significant difference between those states has emerged in the price paid to dairy farmers for their milk. For example, in the last recorded figures, as set out on page 37 of the committee's recently released draft interim report, the price in Victoria, Tasmania and South Australia was 33.9c, 34.6c and 34.6c per litre respectively; whereas in Western Australia it was 42.4c, in New South Wales it was 48.7c and in Queensland it was 55.8c. In Queensland, the differential had gone up to 65 per cent higher than the price in Victoria, which is one of the states producing milk for export.</para>
<para>In the interim report there were dissenting comments by Senators Xenophon, Heffernan, Milne and Williams in which they suggest that a floor price should be implemented for domestic drinking milk supply as an urgent interim measure. Nothing further has been suggested about a price or how that mechanism would work, but essentially what those senators are urging is a return to regulation for the dairy industry after consumers paid $1.8 billion to move away from it, at the urging of the dairy industry and with the support of the states.</para>
<para>I do not believe that this country ought to or will return to a regulated price for milk. The fact is that the bulk of the milk produced in this country is produced in states which predominantly export. Those states' farmers will be paid prices which have regard to the international price. And that is what is happening now, if you look at the figures that I just mentioned. In these states, particularly New South Wales and Queensland, the cost of production is higher, and dairy farmers will not remain in the dairy industry if they are only paid the international price when it is low. That is why there has been an emergence of a great differential in prices for milk between those states.</para>
<para>To simply say we should somehow have a floor price does not address that differential. How do we set a floor price which addresses that differential? And how do we justify to the farmers, say, in Victoria, that their floor price would, of necessity, be many cents lower than that in Queensland set by regulation, because the businesses relying on their milk in many circumstances could not survive on the higher price being paid north of the Queensland-New South Wales border? So I am concerned at the trend which has emerged in that dissenting report because the trend indicates to me perhaps an appeal to popularity rather than a regard to the historical circumstances of the industry and its future.</para>
<para>The industry has gone through hard times. It has gone through a period where prices were high, but also in drought. It then went through the global financial crisis when prices fell sharply because of a fall in international prices. And now it is going through a period of uncertainty where supermarkets are seeking to capture more of the value using the price of drinking milk as a major marketing tool, with the Coles 'Down, down' and so-called 'Staying down' campaign, where milk is being valued at around $1 a litre—some say, much less than the price of water in a bottle. So, in other words, the water, having gone through the cow, has been devalued.</para>
<para>Can I suggest that it would be appropriate for the committee, when they consider this matter further—and I am sure that they will—to have regard to all of those circumstances. It would be appropriate for the committee to look at the circumstances in which dairy farmers find themselves bargaining with processors about the price of the milk that they sell every day. That is one thing that dairy farmers have to do: they have to sell their milk every day. They cannot store it and sell it when the price is high; they have to sell it fresh every day. They are dependent on what happens in their bargaining with the processors.</para>
<para>It would also be appropriate for the committee to have a close look at the power of the supermarkets. We have a very powerful supermarket sector in this country. They are able to drive prices down in this and a number of other areas. But we do have to have regard to the consequences for primary producers, and manufacturers and processors of product, that ultimately have to sell their food products to consumers—and we do depend on that. But they should not be placed in circumstances where there is excessive power to the supermarkets in the equation, perhaps delivering lower prices to consumers but making some businesses, farm and manufacturing nonviable.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Identity Theft Legislation</title>
          <page.no>2172</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>20:41</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WORTLEY</name>
    <name.id>e6c</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Chairing the parliament's Joint Select Committee on Cyber Safety, I have heard from many about their concerns regarding privacy and related issues. One that causes great concern is that of identity theft. It is an achievement of this government that this issue is being addressed in part through the passage of the Law and Justice Legislation Amendment (Identity Crimes and Other Measures) Act 2010. The bill for the act passed quietly, but the reforms that resulted are significant and they touch each and every person.</para>
<para>Identity theft is real, it is epidemic, and its manifestations range from the simple theft of a wallet or purse to elaborate online frauds, all with the aim of using the victim's personal details, without his or her knowledge, to fraudulently obtain goods, services, cash or credit. Many of us know someone whose stolen credit card has subsequently been used without his or her knowledge or authorisation. We know people who have received those emails known as 'phishing', where criminals, posing as legitimate organisations such as banks, use apparently corporate websites to solicit passwords, tax file numbers and the like. Indeed, many of us in this chamber have received those emails, too. Clearly, sufficient numbers of people respond to these emails to make the scams worth continuing.</para>
<para>It would appear that, even if we do not shop or bank or pay bills online, our personal details can still be available to increasingly sophisticated hackers. The majority of information now has some connection to the world wide web, and if we have ever, for example, registered a car, claimed a Centrelink benefit—which, of course, is deposited to a bank account—obtained household insurance or made any other similar transactions, our personal details could eventually be uncovered by way of increasingly sophisticated computer tech­nology. Meanwhile, the plumber, our accountant and many other service providers will happily hand over their BSB and account details for direct deposit of payments.</para>
<para>There are numerous examples of crimes and potential crimes, and most of those I have highlighted are personal crimes. But small businesses and even large corporations are subject to such fraudulent practices. The consequences of these crimes for persons, small businesses and large corporations can be significant. A victim of identity theft can be completely oblivious until he or she finds that their bank account has been emptied, that credit has been obtained in their name, or even that a crime has been committed, allegedly by the victim. Such consequences can take months, sometimes years, to repair. The victim's creditworthiness can be damaged. He or she may unknowingly have a criminal record that comes to light well after the alleged offence, but in time to jeopardise a job offer or a visa application. You can only imagine the shock of finding out any or all of these things, and the effort, time and expense involved in repairing the damage and restoring one's reputation. You can imagine the emotional strain that could ensue, possibly over a very extended period of time.</para>
<para>My research shows that estimates of the financial cost of identity theft in Australia can reach up to $4 billion per year, and that crimes of this nature are growing faster than any other area of criminal endeavour. Of course, identity theft is a transnational crime. It is clear that the instances I have outlined are likely to represent only a tiny part of a more organised and highly sophisticated underlying criminal structure, both here in Australia and overseas. That is why we need to be increasingly vigilant in relation to our personal information and the ways in which we disclose it.</para>
<para>The act to which I refer comprises a number of amendments to do with law enforcement, privacy and related matters. Chief among these is the creation in the Criminal Code of three offences to do with identity theft. They are: dealing in iden­tification information where the perpetrator intends to pass him or herself off as another person—living or dead, real or fictitious—to commit or assist in the commission of an indictable offence under Commonwealth law; the possession of identification information where the perpetrator intends to use the information to commit or assist in the dealing offence; and the possession of equipment to create identification docu­mentation where the perpetrator or another person intends to use the equipment to create documentation so as to engage in conduct constituting the dealing offence. The act also provides for an extended geographical jurisdiction. As identity theft is a trans­national crime, so too the three offences will also be applicable to an Australian citizen or citizens, or an Australian body corporate outside this country.</para>
<para>These provisions represent significant progress in the fight against identity crime, but increased vigilance, as I mentioned earlier, is the key to protecting ourselves against crimes of this nature. It may sound simple, but just on a personal level we can facilitate this by actually checking the transactions on our credit card statements and then disposing of these by shredding them and not just tossing them into the recycling bin. We can cut up expired drivers licences, credit cards and the like instead of disposing of them intact. We can take care when opening emails from an unfamiliar source, and particular care when our personal or financial details are requested by an unknown—or even a known—person or organisation, whether in person, on the telephone or online.</para>
<para>As the 2008 <inline font-style="italic">OECD Policy Guidance On Online Identity Theft</inline> points out with particular reference to the latter:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Online ID theft is a fraudulent activity which has become increasingly complex, relying on ever changing high-tech methods. Tackling it requires concerted, collaborative efforts by all stakeholders (<inline font-style="italic">i.e</inline>. government, business, and consumers). Education and awareness are therefore necessary to ensure that both consumers and businesses are aware of the importance of the problem, and knowledgeable about its evolving forms.</para></quote>
<para>Enhancing community and business awareness is key to combating this expanding and constantly evolving global problem, as well as criminal sanctions, such as those encapsulated in the act for those who engage in it.</para>
<para>With those remarks, I take this opportunity to commend our government for its foresight in legislating to combat these 21st century crimes through the Law and Justice Legislation Amendment (Identity Crimes and Other Measures) Act 2010.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Afghanistan</title>
          <page.no>2174</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>20:49</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator KROGER</name>
    <name.id>G1N</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to extend my comments to 20 minutes.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator KROGER</name>
    <name.id>G1N</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I recently had the opportunity to be part of the Australian Defence Force Parliamentary Program that visited Afghanistan, in particular Oruzgan province in the first week of May. This was a unique experience that provided me with a comprehensive insight into the rationale of our operations, along with the scale of the logistics—an opportunity that I wish all Australians could share.</para>
<para>The visit presented the opportunity to understand the complexities of a country beset with the challenges of rival tribes, power struggles and ideological battles for the hearts and minds of its people in a country which is notable for its dramatic, harsh and unrelenting climate and landscape. My short time in Afghanistan, walking in the footsteps of our courageous professional and just soldiers has reaffirmed my pride in being an Australian.</para>
<para>The visit not only gave me an opportunity to assess our involvement in the war on terror but it also brought me into direct contact with our troops of all ranks, and reaffirmed my perceptions and assumptions about the men and women of the Australian Defence Force.</para>
<para>Before I make some general observations, I would like to acknowledge Lynton Dixon, Executive Officer of the ADFPP and Major Micah Batt from HQJOC, our escort, guide and mentor, who ensured that our daily schedule worked and kept us busy and safe. He was pivotal to our safekeeping.</para>
<para>We flew to the ADF's theatre headquarters at Al Minhab, the location of the Joint Task Force 633, where we met with the commander of HQJTF633, Major General Angus Campbell. We were given a very thorough and candid overview by the Major General, along with Air Commodore John Oddie. This was an early indication of the open and transparent approach that was taken by all who we met.</para>
<para>The logistical magnitude of the military presence in the Middle East starts at AMAB, where personnel and supplies are sent for demarcation into Afghanistan. The base is currently home to 550 men and women. It can support twice that number, and conditions personnel in climate and hygiene challenges, and equips personnel for their next stage. We received a shortened drill in the diversity and evolving physical manifestations of improvised explosive devices, known as IEDs, the type of terrain and machinery where they had been found and the invidious damage they cause. A session of weapon training at the rifle range demonstrated, however, why we should focus on influence through the power of the word rather than our prowess with the rifle. In retrospect, I realise that this was a bit like a holiday camp before we were embedded with the troops in the multinational base at Tarin Kot.</para>
<para>Tarin Kot is a stark place—flying in over Pakistan into a landscape of jagged mountains chiselled out of a barren, hard baked earth. Along the meandering brown waters of the Helmand River, subsistence farmers have learnt the ways of past centuries, with irrigation channels effectively carved into the baked earth. The romantic illusion of flower beds dotted along the river banks was shattered with the realisation that the pink flowers were the seeds of the heroin trade. We had arrived at the beginning of Nesh, the harvest season of the opium poppies.</para>
<para>Afghanistan accounts for 90 per cent to 92 per cent of the world's production of heroin—currently a necessary financial imperative for these subsistence farmers. The drug lords demand that the farmers grow the opium poppy as part of their crop, taking 10 per cent of the profits. The sale of opium allows them to invest in seed for wheat or other crops and pays for the fertiliser, so necessary in this desolate part of the world. This continues to be a challenge for the provincial government . The sale of opium delivers a $100 million annual boost to the Afghan economy. To destroy opium crops is to destroy the economic viability of the province. The province needs to be weaned off this dependence with significant support—and, in so doing, breaking the nexus with the drug lords. Some of this manufactured product, as we know, ends up on our streets in Melbourne and Sydney and beyond. It is a socially destructive trade that destroys lives, and its genesis is here in the meandering delta of what is known as the green zone.</para>
<para>In Tarin Kot we were embedded with the troops, where we shared their shipping container accommodation, their mess huts and, more importantly, their views on why they were there, what they were doing and achieving, and the difference they were making on the ground to the lives of the Afghans. There is no Australian equivalent that can be used to describe this backward province. In the words of the Australian Deputy Commander, Colonel Dennis Malone, it is the Tennant Creek of Afghanistan—and I do not in any way wish to impugn the residents of Tennant Creek. Those who live in the area do so largely because it is their traditional home. Running water and sanitation do not exist and hygiene is a challenge, with malaria ever present. The locals live in qualas—a construction comprising of a baked mud wall that encloses a small room where they sleep with perhaps another room used for an animal or agricultural storage. It is subsistence living at its most basic.</para>
<para>Without the work of our troops, roads would be nothing but hardened dirt tracks and they would remain beholden to the demands of the drug lords. The safety of the people was at the whim of the Taliban, many of them warring tribal clans who received the support and encouragement of al-Qaeda to fund their war against Western civilisation through the sale of the opium poppy. It was places like Oruzgan Province that provided safe havens for the insurgents, home to the al-Qaeda training camps—camps that were nothing more than bases for teaching the killing skills of Islamic fundamentalist terrorists.</para>
<para>The multinational base here has made extraordinary progress in securing so much of the area, restoring stability and enabling the Afghan people to return to a more normal life. We were provided open access to the members of the Combined Team Uruzgan under the command of US Colonel Jim Creighton, who gave us a high-level account of the strategy in securing the province and the impressive military intelligence and hardware tools that they employ. The camp is home to 3,000 troops and most of the Australian deployment. Whilst the senior commanding officers provided us with a great insight, it was the informal discussions with so many of our soldiers that I found so productive.</para>
<para>I have always had a great respect for the men and women of the ADF and their choice to fight for our democratic freedom and the protection of Western civilisation values. My admiration and respect grew exponentially as I moved amongst them, listening to them and observing them. Their professionalism, integrity and courage were carried like a mantle around their shoulders. Never before have I been so proud of my fellow Australians. The leadership skills that they have learnt through their education and training in the ADF were on full display and I was truly humbled to spend time with them.</para>
<para>My experiences demanded that I reflect on the numerous inquiries launched by the Defence minister in response to alleged offences that happened recently in ADFA. Whilst I do not condone stupid, puerile, sexist or immature behaviour of a few undergraduates, it would be a terrible injustice to judge and ascribe unprofessional behaviour to the rest of the ADF. The men and women I saw demonstrated that the recent concerns raised in Australia do not apply to them. The comradeship and mutual respect shown to each other underly the gender equality, integrity and professionalism that they apply to their daily lives. Given the harsh environment of the base, its size, the close proximity of the environment that they share and the military challenges they face, they conduct themselves in an exemplary manner. The Hercules pilot tasked with flying us into Tarin Kot was Liesl, a wonderful example of a capable woman in a demanding job. It was a very symbolic way in which to arrive in Afghanistan.</para>
<para>The advances that have been made and are sustained in the province were implicit in the activities that we participated in. One of the highlights of the trip was a visit to a number of the reconstruction projects that are managed and funded through the financial support of AusAID. These reconstruction projects are critical as they build on the local capacity for independent endeavours and underpin the strategic approach of the coalition forces in removing the insurgents and practically enabling the locals to resume lives free of fear, intimidation and reprisals. There are nine AusAID officers in the country, who oversee the rebuilding of basic amenities. With military escorts, we visited an impressive Australian-built mosque and a school currently being built for 500 girls. In the province, the literacy rate for women is only three per cent—for men it is not much better; it is only eight per cent—so the construction of a girls' school is significant progress that is supported by the locals. We also travelled to a trades centre school, where men and boys, some as young as 12 or 13, are taught the critical skills of building, plumbing and painting—all skills that provide a meaningful way in which they can earn a living.</para>
<para>The Australians have also assumed responsibility for the training and mentoring of the Afghan National Army and the Afghan Police. This undertaking is without question the most compelling contribution that can be made in helping them develop the capacity to sustain relative stability when coalition forces are withdrawn. The Afghanis are recruited from within and outside the province, which also assists in breaking down the allegiance to local tribes. The locals are proud of what they are achieving with our support, with close to 100,000 people recruited to date.</para>
<para>The most impressive visit, however, was to Patrol Base Wali, where we were briefed by Intelligence Officers Captain Jim Wallace and Captain Chris Stuart. This visit was made on a Black Hawk flight located some 30 minutes from the main base, an area that has been secured in only the last six months. The courage, leadership, strength and resilience that these men showed was awe inspiring and I salute them. We also had a flight to Kandahar, meeting with senior Australian embedded staff, including the Deputy Commander, Brigadier Bruce Scott, and a tour of the Heron Intelligence Coordination Centre and control centre, amongst many other site visits. These visits only reinforced my view that our contribution to this war against terror is a necessary and important one.</para>
<para>The successful covert operation by US forces to remove the head and symbolic face of the Taliban, Osama bin Laden, the terrorist responsible for the death of thousands of men, women and children, should only serve to reinforce our resolve to stay the course and ensure the stability of Afghanistan. We must be resolute in ensuring that the country does not return to its former status as a safe haven for terrorists, whose mission in life is to destroy the democratic principles of Western civilisation and the values that we uphold.</para>
<para>In closing, I would like to acknowledge my appreciation to the ADF for their support of the program and to the many people who gave their time and provided the logistical support to ensure our safe keeping. I salute our men and women in Afghanistan who are fighting on our behalf. They have my unqualified support and admiration.</para>
<para>Senate adjourned at 21:04</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>2177</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Tabling</title>
          <page.no>2177</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Tabling</title>
          <page.no>2186</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>QUESTIONS ON NOTICE</title>
        <page.no>2188</page.no>
        <type>QUESTIONS ON NOTICE</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Climate Change and Energy Efficiency: Hospitality (Question No. 151)</title>
          <page.no>2188</page.no>
          <id.no>151</id.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp></time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Abetz</name>
    <name.id>N26</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>asked the Minister representing the Minister for Climate Change and Energy Efficiency, upon notice, on 29 September 2010:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) (a) Can an itemised list be provided of how much the department has spent on hospitality since 24 November 2007; and (b) of this, how much was spent on alcohol.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) For each Minister and any associated parliamentary secretary: (a) can an itemised list be provided of how much each office has spent on hospitality since 24 November 2007; and (b) of this, how much was spent on alcohol.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp></time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Wong</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Minister for Climate Change and Energy Efficiency has provided the following answer to the honourable senator's question:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) (a) The Department of Climate Change and Energy Efficiency's (and its predecessor the Department of Climate Change) total hospitality spend from 24 November 2007 to 30 June 2010 was $200,138 comprising:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">295 Australian based events costing $155,390; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">19 International events costing $44,748.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Department is unable to provide further details of each event as it would involve an unreasonable diversion of resources.(b) Details of the alcohol component of any official hospitality are not recorded separately. Provision of these details would involve an extensive manual process and therefore, in the context of existing workloads, an unreasonable diversion of resources.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) (a) Details of events for each Minister to 30 June 2010 are as follows:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) Details of the alcohol component of any official hospitality are not recorded separately. Provision of these details would involve an extensive manual process and therefore, in the context of existing workloads, an unreasonable diversion of resources.</para></quote>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Strategic Indigenous Housing and Infrastructure Program (Question No. 213)</title>
          <page.no>2189</page.no>
          <id.no>213</id.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp></time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Siewert</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>asked the Minister representing the Minister for Families, Housing, Community Services and Indigenous Affairs, upon notice, on 29 November 2010:</para>
<quote><para class="block">I would like to clarify the employment and working conditions for Aboriginal workers employed under the Strategic Indigenous Housing and Infrastructure Program (SIHIP), including under what conditions participants in Community Development Employment Projects (CDEP) program, traineeships or work-for-the-dole programs may be employed. I have received some disturbing reports from communities in central Australia of the inconsistent treatment of Aboriginal workers.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The main allegations I have heard are:</para></quote>
<list>Aboriginal workers on CDEP or on income management being promised top-up pay that they do not receive or fully receive.</list>
<list>Inconsistent and diminishing rates of top-up pay for workers, so that workers continuously employed to do the same work for the same number of hours a day receive less pay in subsequent pay packets.</list>
<list>A failure to provide pay slips, employment contracts or other documentation to Aboriginal workers.</list>
<list>A failure to report on employment outcomes to Job Services Australia (JSA) providers.</list>
<list>Minimal training (e.g. 1 day) for extended periods of work (e.g. 3 to 4 months).</list>
<list>Aboriginal contractors being asked to include CDEP places to reduce costs, and receiving less work when they refuse to do so.</list>
<list>Different workers doing the same work side-by-side, but receiving vastly different pay.</list>
<list>Over subscription of CDEP workers for the amount of work required (e.g. 15 or 20 put on to do the work of 5 to 6 full-time workers) with the expectation that a number will drop out (and are effectively forced to do so).</list>
<quote><para class="block">I am concerned that, if some or all of these allegations are true, they are undermining the positive employment outcomes that could be achieved by the significant opportunity provided by SIHIP, therefore:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) What proportion of jobs on SIHIP is made up of CDEP workers.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) Can a breakdown be provided, by community, of the number of Indigenous SIHIP workers: (a) on grandfathered CDEP payments; (b) in receipt of CDEP via Basics Card; (c) on other work experience programs; (d) being paid real wages; and (e) who received top-up wages, including the amount received.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) How is it that the promised 'real jobs for real wages' under SIHIP are subject to income management.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(4) Which organisations pay CDEP participants who are employed on SIHIP or SIHIP ancillary jobs.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(5) (a) Can the accreditation requirements, workplace agreements and remuneration standards that are required by contractors who are providing construction or maintenance services under SIHIP be clarified; and (b) can an explanation be provided as to how these apply to organisations that are providing CDEP placements, traineeships or work-for-the-dole programs.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(6) Can Aboriginal organisations or organisations employing Aboriginal workers be required to provide a certain number of CDEP places.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(7) If there are accredited Aboriginal contractors willing and able to do construction or maintenance work, can and should they be excluded in favour of CDEP workers.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(8) What are the arrangements concerning top-up pay for workers who are on income support and having their income managed under the Northern Territory Emergency Response.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(9) Are companies providing training or managing CDEP or work-for-the-dole programs required to clearly inform workers up-front as to how many hours they can work and how much top-up money they will be paid.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(10) Should the amount of top-up pay decrease over time.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(11) If there are changes to top-up arrangements or numbers of hours worked, are organisations required to inform workers beforehand.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(12) What can workers do if they believe they have worked a significant number of hours for which they have not been paid.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(13) (a) What are the contractual obligations of Community Enterprises Australia (CEA) and New Future Alliance under SIHIP; and (b) are they required to report on employment outcomes, number of hours worked, rates of pay etc.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(14) What remedy is there for JSA providers who have referred participants to CEA and/or SIHIP but have not received placement or outcome fees due to a lack of reporting.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(15) Which other communities who are in receipt of SIHIP housing or renovations also have, or will have, CDEP and work experience participants working on them.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(16) What action, if any, is the Government taking to remedy: (a) the underpayment of CDEP workers; (b) the lack of placement or outcome fees for referring JSA providers due to inadequate outcomes reporting by CEA; or (c) the loss of potential wages to Aboriginal contractors paying Aboriginal workers real wages for doing real work, who were overlooked in favour of the cheaper CDEP or work experience option.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(17) In regard to the CDEP program: (a) what proportion of available CDEP positions are now being taken up; and (b) can the latest data be provided on ex-CDEP participants, including: (i) the total number, (ii) how many ex-participants have jobs, and (iii) how many are on income support.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp></time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Arbib</name>
    <name.id>HES</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Minister for Families, Housing, Community Services and Indigenous Affairs has provided the following answer to the honourable senator's question:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Employment of CDEP workers in SIHIP is limited to the New Future Alliance 3A package. At 22 November 2010, of the 58 Indigenous people employed in this package 17 were on CDEP. Across SIHIP this represented 4.9 per cent of the total Indigenous employment recorded across the program at that time.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) (a) and (b) As of 3 December 2010, there were 24 CDEP participants working on the SIHIP program at three locations:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Grandfathered CDEP participants, on CDEP wages, are those listed as 'continuing participants'.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">New CDEP participants receive income support, are subject to income management and will be issued with a basics card. However, no CDEP participants are paid via the basics card. As at 3 December 2010, there were 19 CDEP participants receiving income support.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) Alliance partners do not employ workers under the Work for the Dole or work experience programs. However, in some locations with larger capital works packages, the Alliances assist Job Services Australia and other employment providers to run work experience or pre-employment programs with provision of tools and materials.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(d) All new participants, noted in (2) (a) above, are paid real wages at award rates for every hour worked.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(e) Continuing participants as noted in (2)(a) above, receive top-up payments for hours worked in excess of the 15 hours (on average) covered by CDEP wages. The actual amount of top-up paid depends on the number of hours worked over and above the first 15 hours (on average). At 3 December 2010, there were five continuing participants involved in SIHIP.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) Where a CDEP participant is classified as 'new', that is they commenced on CDEP after 1 July 2009, they participate on the program in receipt of income support. This change was part of the reforms to the CDEP program to ensure that incentive and participation requirements of CDEP participants were aligned with other Indigenous job seekers. As with other income support recipients, all wages earned from employment must be declared to Centrelink. All new participants will have a participation obligation under CDEP, however, this does not preclude them from obtaining part-time employment such as through SIHIP. Payment for all work with SIHIP is paid at or above award rates and is not subject to income management. Continuing participants, that is those on CDEP wages, are not subject to income management.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(4) There are four CDEP provider organisations that are paid by the New Future Alliance for part-time work undertaken on SIHIP. These CDEP providers then pay relevant participants at the award hourly rates. The four providers are: Central Desert Shire Council, Community Enterprises Australia Ltd (Alice Springs), Tangentyere Council Incorporated and Tjuwanpa Outstation Resource Centre Aboriginal Corporation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(5)(a) Funding for SIHIP works, under NPARIH, requires contracted organisations constructing houses and refurbishment/rebuilds to be compliant with all relevant Australian Government and Northern Territory Government legislation/regulations.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Government and the Northern Territory Government also requires that all works meet quality standards as described in the Building Code of Australia and that housing design and amenity complies with the Nation Indigenous Housing Guide. Compliance with Federal Safety Commissioner (FSC) is also mandated.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Alliance partners must meet all relevant industrial relations legislation as they are the employer of an individual. They may also contract parts of the work to smaller subcontractors who will have similar employer obligations. In addition, subcontractors working in the building and construction sector in the Northern Territory are also required to be Contractor Accreditation Limited (CAL) compliant. To obtain CAL accreditation contractors must:</para></quote>
<list>Commit to work to the industry code of practice for the building and construction industry;</list>
<list>Agree to abide by government requirements in areas such as industrial regulations, work health and training;</list>
<list>Provide full and accurate information regarding their business structure, resources and past performance;</list>
<list>Agree to an assessment of their financial capability by an independent financial consultant; and</list>
<list>Agree to CAL staff obtaining information regarding their business activities from other parties.</list>
<quote><para class="block">CDEP providers must also ensure that work experience employers comply with all relevant laws, industrial agreements and instruments (part of the CDEP Funding Agreement).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) Alliance partners do not employ workers under the Work for the Dole or work experience programs. However, in some locations with larger capital works packages, the Alliances assist Job Services Australia and other employment providers to run work experience or pre-employment programs with provision of tools and materials. CDEP Work Experience Agreements are not applicable for periods under 13 weeks. As short-term refurbishment packages are usually two to twelve weeks CDEP participants were provided under a labour hire arrangement rather than a Work Experience Agreement.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Where the CDEP participant has been directly employed, safety and workplace requirements are incorporated into their training. A CDEP participant's wages are consistent with the award under which they are employed as it is for other non-CDEP employees.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In the case of the labour hire arrangements in package 3A in the Southern Refurbishments, Community Enterprises Australia are providing the labour to New Future Alliance. New Future Alliance undertakes training of the participant ensuring that all OH&S and safety requirements are met. Community Enterprises Australia remains the employer for the participant, ensuring all relevant industrial requirements are met. In addition, the Department of Families, Housing, Community Service and Indigenous Affairs (FaHCSIA) monitors compliance of CDEP providers to all aspects of their funding agreements.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(6) No, there is no requirement to guarantee a certain number of places for CDEP workers.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(7) No, accredited Aboriginal contractors are not excluded in favour of CDEP workers. Accredited Aboriginal contractors are also able to employ CDEP participants, similar to any other employer. Alliances have subcontracted work to 13 local Indigenous businesses including –Thamarrurr Development Corporation, and Groote Eylandt and Bickerton Island Enterprises (GEBIE Civil & Construction).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(8) New participants (those on income support) on the CDEP program who obtain part-time work with a SIHIP employer must declare all earnings to Centrelink. Income received from working (wages) is not income managed but may impact on the participant's income support which is subject to income management.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(9) Before placing new and continuing participants with a Work Experience Employer, CDEP providers must execute a Work Experience Agreement with the Work Experience Employer. This Work Experience Agreement details the pay and conditions on which the CDEP participants are engaged and must be signed by the CDEP participants. For the short-term placements under the labour hire arrangement, the hours a participant works are negotiated between the CDEP provider, SIHIP employer and the individual. All hours worked are paid at or above award rate.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(10) Only continuing CDEP participants are eligible to receive top-up pay. The CDEP provider will pay CDEP wages to the continuing participant for, on average, the first 15 hours worked per week. Any additional hours worked must be paid by the employer, in this case New Future Alliance. These hours will be paid at award rates and would be considered 'top-up'. Pay for 'top-up' is dependent on the hours per week worked – if hours decrease, top-up pay decreases and if hours increase, top-up pay increases.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(11) Yes.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(12) In the first instance, a worker should raise the query with their local CDEP manager. The Government will investigate any claim made that workers are not being fairly remunerated.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(13) (a) Community Enterprises Australia is a CDEP provider and has no contractual obligations under SIHIP. It has an agreement with New Future Alliance to provide labour hire personnel. Their contracts are commercial-in-confidence but include amounts for workers compensation, superannuation and administration costs.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) Yes, both the CDEP provider and the Alliance Partner have separate reporting requirements with regard to Indigenous employment and keep records of all hours worked and paid for CDEP participants.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">As a CDEP provider, Community Enterprises Australia must record and report all participants against relevant activities. Under their labour hire arrangement, this includes signed time sheets. Community Enterprises Australia would submit outcome claims for all employment outcomes.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">New Future Alliance reports to the Department of Housing, Local Government and Regional Services in the Northern Territory on employment information. This information includes – number of indigenous employees, hours worked and training participation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(14) It is a requirement under the CDEP funding agreement and JSA deed, that all CDEP and JSA providers must enter into Service Level Agreements (SLA) where they service the same locations. The SLA should outline how the two providers will jointly service their shared participants, including communications and reporting between the two parties. If a JSA provider feels the SLA is not being honoured they can raise the matter with their Department of Education, Employment and Workplace Relations (DEEWR) contract manager who will liaise with the relevant CDEP agreement manager in FaHCSIA.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(15) Please refer to (2)(a).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(16) (a) The Government will investigate any claim made that workers are not being fairly remunerated. FaHCSIA's investigations have shown that to date CDEP participants working on SIHIP are being remunerated appropriately. In order to address confusion around CDEP participants undertaking short-term employment with a SIHIP employer, FaHCSIA has advised CDEP providers that any placement with a SIHIP employer that is not under a formal Work Experience Agreement, that is for placements of less than 13 weeks, the CDEP participant must be exited from the program.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) Please refer to (14).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) FaHCSIA is not aware of any specific information about potential losses to Aboriginal contractors. Any complaints should be directed to the Department of Housing, Local Government and Regional Services in the Northern Territory.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(17) (a) At 30 November 2010, a total of 10,400 participants were active on the CDEP program out of the 14,891 available places (69.84 per cent).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) (i) The total number of exits from the CDEP program between 1 July 2009 and 30 June 2010 was 12,897. The total number of program exits between 1 July 2010 and 30 Nov 2010 was 6,421. These exits are for multiple reasons and include multiple episodes of participation for the same people.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) Between 1 July 2009 and 30 June 2010:</para></quote>
<list>2,253 initial employment outcomes have been claimed;</list>
<list>1,822 thirteen week outcomes have been claimed; and</list>
<list>1,308 twenty-six week outcomes have been claimed.</list>
<list>Between 1 July 2010 and 30 November 2010:</list>
<list>934 initial employment outcomes have been claimed;</list>
<list>605 thirteen week outcomes have been claimed;</list>
<list>482 twenty-six week outcomes have been claimed; and</list>
<list>727 fifty-two week outcomes have been claimed.</list>
<quote><para class="block">(iii) Of the 19,318 exits from the CDEP program since 1 July 2009 it is not possible to report how many of these are currently in employment or on income support.</para></quote>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Climate Change and Energy Efficiency: Green Loans (Question No. 220)</title>
          <page.no>2193</page.no>
          <id.no>220</id.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp></time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Birmingham</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>asked the Minister representing the Minister for Climate Change and Energy Efficiency, upon notice, on 24 November 2010:</para>
<quote><para class="block">With reference to the answer provided on 14 May 2010 through additional estimates that:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">'Green Loans were made available for a range of home improvements. Abatement estimates are not available at this time',</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">and the answers provided on 17 November 2010 through Budget estimates, months after the 22 March discontinuation of the loans component of the Green Loans Program, that:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">'As at 31 August 2010, the total value of the 7,448 loans for which the Department had paid subsidies and application fees was $67,900,866.00', and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">'As at 31 August 2010, the total sum of subsidies and application fees paid to all financial institutions participating in the program was $13,553,381. This is based on the 7,448 loans for which payments had been made as at 31 August 2010':</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) For what reason are these answers given 'As at 31 August 2010'.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) Is the department expecting to pay, or has the department paid, any subsidies or application fees later than 31 August 2010.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) (a) What information has been kept on the home improvements made or planned as a result of the securing by householders of Green Loans; and (b) can an itemised list be provided by eligible action (e.g. fridge, hot water system replacement) of: (i) the number of Green Loans provided, (ii) the total value of Green Loans provided, and (iii) the total number of such eligible actions subsidised (noting that each Green Loan might subsidise more than one eligible action).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(4) What are the estimated emissions reductions resulting from subsidised Green Loans, including:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) a total estimate for the loans component of the program;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) a total estimate for the entire program if different; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) an itemised listing of emissions reduction by eligible action (e.g. fridge, hot water system replacement).</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp></time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Wong</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Minister for Climate Change and Energy Efficiency has provided the following answer to the honourable senator's question:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) The 31 August 2010 date coincided with the date on which data was collated by the Department to respond to Senator Birmingham's original question.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) One invoice is still to be paid for loans that were approved prior to the 22 March 2010 closure date. The Department is seeking clarification from the relevant financial institution about a number of items included in this invoice. Once the items claimed for payment have been verified, this invoice will be paid as a matter of priority.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) Information on improvements planned as a result of the securing by householders of a Green Loan is contained on the loan declaration provided by applicants to the relevant financial institution. The Department has not yet received this information from the financial institutions but will do so as part of the overall audit and evaluation strategy.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">To ensure householders have adequate time to see the benefits of both making improvements to their property and sustained behavioural changes, the evaluation and audit of Green Loan recipients is planned to occur in the first quarter of 2011.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">As of 14 December 2010, there were 7,774 loans approved, with a total value of $70,930,829.25.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(4) The Department is exploring whether it is possible to provide answers to some or all of these questions.</para></quote>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Prime Minister: Stationery (Question No. 226)</title>
          <page.no>2194</page.no>
          <id.no>226</id.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp></time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Humphries</name>
    <name.id>KO6</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>asked the Minister representing the Prime Minister, upon notice, on 29 November 2010:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Since 14 September 2010, for each Minister and any Parliamentary Secretaries in their portfolio:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) What has been the total amount spent on stationery and publications, including a breakdown of all spending.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) What has been the total amount spent on printing ministerial letterhead.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) What is the grams per square metre [GSM] of the ministerial letterhead.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(4) Is the letterhead carbon neutral.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp></time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Chris Evans</name>
    <name.id>AX5</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Prime Minister has provided the following answer to the honourable senator's question:</para>
<quote><para class="block">I am advised that the general ongoing practice is that Ministers' letters in the portfolio are printed on plain paper with the 'letterhead' being part of the electronic document. There is however a requirement for some letters from the Prime Minister to be printed on pre-printed letterhead. No expenditure on pre-printed letterhead paper was incurred in the period covered by this question as paper is ordered in bulk and used over an extended period.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The following Ministers use 'Stephen Swiss White' 115gsm A4 paper and matching DL envelopes for ministerial correspondence:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">the Prime Minister, the Honourable Julia Gillard MP;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">the Minister for the Arts, the Honourable Simon Crean MP;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">the Cabinet Secretary, the Honourable Mark Dreyfus MP, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">the Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister, Senator the Honourable Kate Lundy.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The cost of the Stephen Swiss White paper and envelopes are:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">one ream (500 sheets) is $32.87 or $26.40 per ream if bulk orders (50 reams or more) are placed; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">DL envelopes are $76.50 per box of 500.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">As at 29 November 2010, standard white paper (A4 80gsm) and 'Stephen Swiss White' envelopes were used for ministerial correspondence for the other Ministers in the portfolio, i.e:</para></quote>
<list>the Minister Assisting the Prime Minister on Digital Productivity, Senator the Honourable Stephen Conroy;</list>
<list>the Minister for Social Inclusion, the Honourable Tanya Plibersek MP;</list>
<list>the Minister for Privacy and Freedom of Information, the Honourable Brendan O'Connor MP;</list>
<list>the Minister for Sport, Senator the Honourable Mark Arbib; and</list>
<list>the Special Minister for State for the Public Service and Integrity, the Honourable Gary Gray MP.</list>
<quote><para class="block">The cost of one ream (500 sheets) of standard white paper is $4.90.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The 'Stephen Swiss White' product is carbon neutral. The standard white paper used more generally for ministers is not carbon neutral.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The total cost for stationary used by each minister over the period since 14 September 2010 cannot be identified as stationery is ordered in bulk, sometimes for several ministers, and then used over an extended period. The costs have therefore been presented as an amount per ream or batch of stationary.</para></quote>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Veterans' Affairs: Stationery (Question No. 259)</title>
          <page.no>2195</page.no>
          <id.no>259</id.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp></time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Humphries</name>
    <name.id>KO6</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>asked the Minister representing the Minister for Veterans ' Affairs, upon notice, on 29 November 2010.</para>
<quote><para class="block">Since 14 September 2010, for each Minister and any Parliamentary Secretaries in their portfolio:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) What has been the total amount spent on stationery and publications, including a breakdown of all spending.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) What has been the total amount spent on printing ministerial letterhead.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) What is the grams per square metre [GSM] of the ministerial letterhead.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(4) Is the letterhead carbon neutral.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp></time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Chris Evans</name>
    <name.id>AX5</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Minister for Veterans' Affairs has provided the following answer to the honourable senator's question:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) From 14 September 2010 to 28 February 2011 the total amount expended on publications was $1,258.56. Expenditure on stationery is recorded by the Department under a single account code and it would be too resource intensive to identify what proportion was attributed to the Office of the Minister for Veterans' Affairs.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) The Minister's Office does not use printed letterhead and instead prints the letter template straight onto blank paper. As expenditure for blank paper supplied by the Department is recorded under a single account code, it would be too resource intensive to identify what proportion was attributed to the Minister's Office.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) Until mid-January 2011 the Minister's Office used 50% recycled copy paper that is 80 GSM for correspondence from the Minister for Veterans' Affairs. From mid-January to date the Office has used a paper that is 110 GSM. This was used to exhaust stocks that the Department of Defence had provided to the Office. The Office will shortly transition to a new paper that is 104 GSM.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(4) The 80 GSM and the 110 GSM papers used for ministerial responses were not carbon neutral. The 104 GSM paper that the Office will transition to shortly is carbon neutral.</para></quote>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Special Minister of State for the Public Service and Integrity: Stationery (Question No. 265)</title>
          <page.no>2196</page.no>
          <id.no>265</id.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp></time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Humphries</name>
    <name.id>KO6</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>asked the Minister representing the Special Minister of State for the Public Service and Integrity, upon notice, on 29 November 2010:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Since 14 September 2010, for each Minister and any Parliamentary Secretaries in their portfolio:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) What has been the total amount spent on stationery and publications, including a breakdown of all spending.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) What has been the total amount spent on printing ministerial letterhead.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) What is the grams per square metre [GSM] of the ministerial letterhead.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(4) Is the letterhead carbon neutral.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp></time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Wong</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Special Minister of State for the Public Service and Integrity has provided the following answer to the honourable senator's question:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Please refer to the Special Minister of State's answer to Question 266*.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">*All figures quoted in the answer to Question 266 are shared between the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet and the Department of Finance and Deregulation, in accordance with the SMOS' dual role as Special Minister of State for the Public Service and Integrity and Special Minister of State.</para></quote>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Finance and Deregulation (Question No. 281)</title>
          <page.no>2196</page.no>
          <id.no>281</id.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp></time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Humphries</name>
    <name.id>KO6</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>asked the Minister for Finance and Deregulation, upon notice, on 29 November 2010:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Since 14 September 2010, for each Minister and any Parliamentary Secretaries within their portfolio:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Do the Minister and Parliamentary Secretaries have access to a departmental credit card; if so, can a copy be provided of all bank statements.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) (a) How many mobile devices are provided to the Minister's office; and (b) what is the total spend on mobile devices for each office to date.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) At what level is each staff member employed in the office.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(4) What has been the total cost of travel for the Minister and Parliamentary Secretaries.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(5) What has been the total travel for all staff, by office.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp></time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Wong</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The answer to the honourable senator's question is as follows:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) No.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) (a) 20, comprising 10 Blackberries and 10 Next G cards. (b) $7,729.44. This figure relates to costs incurred between 14 September 2010 and 29 November 2010.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) The employment of staff under the Members of Parliament (Staff) Act 1984 is administered by the Department of Finance and Deregulation. On 19 October 2010, the Department tabled with the Senate Finance and Public Administration Committee a list of Government Personal Staff Positions as at 1 October 2010.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(4) The cost of official travel for Parliamentarians paid by the Department of Finance and Deregulation is reported bi-annually. Travel costs for the period 1 July to 31 December 2010 will be tabled by the Special Minister of State in the last sitting week of June 2011.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In addition, between 14 September 2010 and 29 November 2010, the total cost of short-term transport (such as hire cars and taxis) was $4,587.06.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(5) The Special Minister of State will respond on behalf of other Ministers and Parliamentary Secretaries in relation to the total travel for all staff, by office. Please refer to the answer to Question No. 308.</para></quote>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Special Minister of State for the Public Service and Integrity (Question No. 307)</title>
          <page.no>2197</page.no>
          <id.no>307</id.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp></time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Humphries</name>
    <name.id>KO6</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>asked the Minister representing the Special Minister of State for the Public Service and Integrity, upon notice, on 29 November 2010:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Since 14 September 2010, for each Minister and any Parliamentary Secretaries within their portfolio:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Do the Minister and Parliamentary Secretaries have access to a departmental credit card; if so, can a copy be provided of all bank statements.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) (a) How many mobile devices are provided to the Minister's office; and (b) what is the total spend on mobile devices for each office to date.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) At what level is each staff member employed in the office.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(4) What has been the total cost of travel for the Minister and Parliamentary Secretaries.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(5) What has been the total travel for all staff, by office.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp></time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Wong</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Special Minister of State for the Public Service and Integrity has provided the following answer to the honourable senator's question:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Please refer to the Special Minister of State's answer to Question 308*.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">*All figures quoted in the answer to Question 308 are shared between the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet and the Department of Finance and Deregulation, in accordance with the SMOS' dual role as Special Minister of State for the Public Service and Integrity and Special Minister of State.</para></quote>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Special Minister of State (Question No. 308)</title>
          <page.no>2198</page.no>
          <id.no>308</id.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp></time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Humphries</name>
    <name.id>KO6</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>asked the Minister representing the Special Minister of State, upon notice, on 29 November 2010:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Since 14 September 2010, for each Minister and any Parliamentary Secretaries within their portfolio:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Do the Minister and Parliamentary Secretaries have access to a departmental credit card; if so, can a copy be provided of all bank statements.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) (a) How many mobile devices are provided to the Minister's office; and (b) what is the total spend on mobile devices for each office to date.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) At what level is each staff member employed in the office.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(4) What has been the total cost of travel for the Minister and Parliamentary Secretaries.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(5) What has been the total travel for all staff, by office.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp></time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Wong</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Special Minister of State has provided the following answer to the honourable senator's question:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) No.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) (a) 18, comprising 8 Blackberries, two mobile phones and eight Next G cards. (b) $10,593.16. This figure relates to costs incurred between 14 September 2010 and 29 November 2010.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3)The employment of staff under the Members of Parliament (Staff) Act 1984 is administered by the Department of Finance and Deregulation. On 19 October 2010, the Department tabled with the Senate Finance and Public Administration Committee a list of Government Personal Staff Positions as at 1 October 2010.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(4) The cost of official travel for Parliamentarians paid by the Department of Finance and Deregulation is reported bi-annually. Travel costs for the period 1 July to 31 December 2010 will be tabled by the Special Minister of State in the last sitting week of June 2011.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In addition, between 14 September 2010 and 29 November 2010, the total cost of short-term transport (such as hire cars and taxis) was $3,228.23. Similar costs incurred by Departments on behalf of their Portfolio Ministers should be reported separately by each Department.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(5 )A table outlining the cost of travel paid by the Department of Finance and Deregulation for the staff of Ministers and Parliamentary Secretaries is at Attachment A. It should be noted that Departments may have incurred additional staff travel costs directly, and if so, these costs will be reported separately by each Department.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Attachment A</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Cost of travel paid for by the Department of Finance and Deregulation for employees of Ministers and Parliamentary Secretaries for the period 14 September to 29 November 2010</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The figures in the above table reflect the cost of travel, including domestic and overseas airfares, car transport and Travelling and Motor Vehicle Allowances for all employees of each Minister or Parliamentary Secretary employed under the Members of Parliament (Staff) Act 1984 (MOP(S) ACT), and includes both personal and electorate employees. The figures do not include travel on Special Purpose Aircraft which is administered by the Department of Defence.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">As employees are able to lodge claims for Travelling Allowance up to 60 days after completion of the relevant travel, and allowing time for ticket charges and refunds, the total cost of travel may not be reflected in the table above. However, the information provided is correct as at 8 December 2010.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">* Role ceased on 14 September 2010 when the new Ministry was sworn in. Please note that a Direction made under the MOP(S) Act defers the termination of staff for a period of two weeks after an Office Holder ceases to hold office. Staff are eligible for limited official travel at Government expense during this period.</para></quote>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Export Finance and Insurance Corporation (Question No. 344)</title>
          <page.no>2202</page.no>
          <id.no>344</id.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp></time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Ludlam</name>
    <name.id>I07</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>asked the Minister representing the Minister for Trade, upon notice, on 13 December 2010:</para>
<quote><para class="block">With reference to the Export Finance and Insurance Corporation (EFIC) and Burma: Has EFIC provided any services, assistance, funding or insurance to Australian companies investing or doing business in Burma; if so, can a detailed explanation be provided of those services.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp></time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Conroy</name>
    <name.id>3L6</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Minister for Trade has provided the following answer to the honourable senator's question:</para>
<quote><para class="block">In the past decade, the Export Finance and Insurance Corporation has not provided finance or insurance to support Australian company investments or contracts in Burma.</para></quote>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Export Finance and Insurance Corporation (Question No. 345)</title>
          <page.no>2202</page.no>
          <id.no>345</id.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp></time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Ludlam</name>
    <name.id>I07</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>asked the Minister representing the Minister for Trade, upon notice, on 13 December 2010:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Given that the Export Finance and Insurance Corporation (EFIC) has provided new loan support to West African mines and according to a media release on its website dated 30 August 2010, EFIC is providing a 4 year loan facility to the Australian business, African Underground Mining Services Pty Ltd (AUMS), for its contract underground mining operations in Ghana and Mali to the value of US$15 million:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) On what date did EFIC sign the loan contract and the contract become valid.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) Did EFIC apply its environment policy to benchmark the application against International Finance Corporation (IFC) Performance Standards and the Equator Principles before making the decision to approve this loan facility to AUMS.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) Does one of the four contract mining agreements that AUMS has entered into relate to Newmont Mining Corporation's Ahafo gold mine in Ghana, located in a farming region northwest of the country's capital Accra.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(4) When EFIC approved this transaction, classifying it as a Category B project (rather than a Category A – significant impacts), was it aware of any controversy surrounding the Ahafo gold mine since its commencement in 2006.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(5) Can comment be provided on the following 'known' controversies associated with the Ahafo gold mine: (a) allegations of human rights abuses by security forces protecting the mine; b) displacement of 10 000 people (95 per cent of whom were subsistence farmers); (c) inadequate compensation; (d) irresponsible practices; and (e) a serious cyanide spill in October 2009.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(6) Was EFIC aware that a ministerial panel of the Government of Ghana has recommended that the Newmont Mining Corporation be fined US$4.9 million for failing to prevent a major cyanide spill in October 2009 at its Ahafo gold mine, and for failing to properly report on and investigate the spill.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp></time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Conroy</name>
    <name.id>3L6</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Minister for Trade has provided the following answer to the honourable senator's question:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) African Underground Mining Services Ltd (AUMS) is not an Australian business but is an Australian-owned joint venture incorporated in Ghana. The EFIC US$15 million facility relates to AUMS's operations in Ghana and Mali.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The effective signing date of the Ghana loan contract is 8 April 2010 and the effective signing date of the Mali loan contract is 13 September 2010.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) EFIC assessed this transaction under its Environment Policy. As required under the Policy EFIC assessed the activity of our client using the IFC Performance Standards as the benchmark.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Equator Principles apply only to project finance and were not relevant to this transaction which does not involve project finance as described in the Equator Principles.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) EFIC provided a loan of $US15 million to AUMS, a Ghanaian joint venture company, owned by two Australian companies. The purpose of the loan was to allow AUMS to purchase mining machinery manufactured in Australia for use in contract mining services provided by the Ghanaian joint venture to its clients in West Africa. Those clients included Newmont Ghana Gold Limited which operates and owns Ahafo Gold Mine.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(4) EFIC's assessment included a review of publicly available information (at the time of assessment) on its client's customer, Newmont Ghana Gold Limited and its Ahafo Gold Mine Project. That information indicated that the project was assessed and funded by the commercial arm of the World Bank, the International Finance Corporation (IFC), and that the IFC financing of the project was subject to the mine operator meeting stringent environment and social standards. The IFC also has ongoing monitoring and reporting in place, including assessments by independent consultants. Since the financing was approved by the IFC, the project has publicly reported on its management of environmental and social issues. EFIC's review provided adequate assurance that World Bank Group policies and guidelines had been met at the time of that review.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(5) EFIC cannot comment on these issues specifically as they are related to the operator and owner of the Ahafo gold mine, Newmont Ghana Gold Limited, and EFIC has no relationship with that company.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(6) EFIC is aware from news reports of payment by Newmont Ghana Gold Limited of an unspecified amount as compensation for an accidental overflow at the Ahafo Gold Mine.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">EFIC cannot comment specifically on this issue as it is the responsibility of the operator and owner of the Ahafo Gold Mine, Newmont Ghana Gold Limited. EFIC has no relationship with that company.</para></quote>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Export Finance and Insurance Corporation (Question No. 346)</title>
          <page.no>2203</page.no>
          <id.no>346</id.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp></time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Ludlam</name>
    <name.id>I07</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>asked the Minister representing the Minister for Trade, upon notice, on 13 December 2010:</para>
<quote><para class="block">With reference to the publication dated 18 August 2010 on the Export Finance and Insurance Corporation (EFIC) website which states that EFIC had signed a 10 year $50 million loan agreement with Australian business Orica Limited, to support the construction of an industrial grade ammonium nitrate plant in Indonesia: Why were the social and environmental impacts of this large scale project not considered to be significant enough to have the project classified as a 'Category A' under the EFIC environment policy.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp></time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Conroy</name>
    <name.id>3L6</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Minister for Trade has provided the following answer to the honourable senator's question:</para>
<quote><para class="block">EFIC assessed this transaction under its Environment Policy. As required under the Policy, EFIC assessed the activity of its client using the IFC Performance Standards as the benchmark. EFIC considered that this project's social and environmental impacts were few in number, generally site specific, largely reversible and readily addressed through mitigation i.e. the characteristics of a Category B project.</para></quote>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Export Finance and Insurance Corporation (Question No. 349)</title>
          <page.no>2204</page.no>
          <id.no>349</id.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp></time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Ludlam</name>
    <name.id>I07</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>asked the Minister representing the Minister for Trade, upon notice, on 13 December 2010:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Has the Export Finance and Insurance Corporation (EFIC) provided any services, assistance, funding or insurance to Australian coal companies or coal projects operating overseas; if so, can details be provided of what has been provided, to which company and to what project; if not, can details be provided clarifying whether there is anything preventing coal projects or companies from accessing EFIC assistance in the future.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp></time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Conroy</name>
    <name.id>3L6</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Minister for Trade has provided the following answer to the honourable senator's question:</para>
<quote><para class="block">In the past 12 months, the Export Finance and Insurance Corporation (EFIC) has participated in a trade receivables purchase facility between Westpac and entities of Anglo American Metallurgical Coal Pty Ltd. The receivables relate to purchases of various grades of coking coal by ArcelorMittal, a Luxembourg-registered company.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Under its mandate EFIC has no bias in its support for any specific sector and is reactive to requests for support from any Australian exporter. As such, there is nothing preventing coal projects or companies from seeking EFIC's assistance. EFIC may provide support to coal projects or companies if they comply with EFIC's environmental and social requirements; the projects are technically and commercially viable; and there is a 'market gap' for the financial support.</para></quote>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Export Finance and Insurance Corporation (Question No. 350)</title>
          <page.no>2204</page.no>
          <id.no>350</id.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp></time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Ludlam</name>
    <name.id>I07</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>asked the Minister representing the Minister for Foreign Affairs, upon notice, on 13 December 2010:</para>
<quote><para class="block">With reference to the 5 year environment and social policy review conducted by the Export Finance and Insurance Corporation (EFIC):</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) What steps have been taken by EFIC to promote the current review.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) What kinds of efforts were made by way of consultation and encouraging public submissions.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) Has EFIC provided a public document outlining the review process and opportunities for consultation and engagement.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(4) What efforts were made to seek input from EFIC supported projects where communities have been affected, and from other stakeholders in host countries.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(5) In relation to the submissions received by EFIC as part of its review: (a) how many have been received and from whom; (b) will they be made public; (c) will EFIC publish a public response to the submissions and recommendations received during the current review; (d) will EFIC respond to these submissions beyond a letter of acknowledgement; and (e) is there anything in the Export Finance and Insurance Corporation Act 1991 that prevents EFIC from responding to the substance contained in the submissions.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(6) Has EFIC engaged in a public forum or public hearing process during the review; if not, will EFIC hold such a public consultation event before approving the revised policy.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(7) Have the proposed new EFIC Social and Environment Policy and Procedure documents been reviewed by an independent corporate social responsibility expert during the review process.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp></time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Conroy</name>
    <name.id>3L6</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Minister for Foreign Affairs has provided the following answer to the honourable senator's question:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) EFIC commenced the current review of its Environment Policy more than 18 months ago. Over that time EFIC has consulted its stakeholders through a variety of methods including one-on-one discussions, distribution of a questionnaire to clients, a formal public consultation period (discussed under questions 2 and 3) and a workshop with respondents to the formal consultation (discussed under question 6).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) (3) and (4) EFIC formally consulted its stakeholders by posting a draft revised Environmental Policy and Procedure on its website and requesting submissions from interested parties. The consultation period was open between 6 August and 1 October, 2010 and was twice extended following the separate requests of two civil society organisations that eventually made submissions.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">To encourage submissions EFIC directly emailed details of the consultation period and the consultation documents to those people and organisations registered with EFIC to receive alerts when EFIC's Category A register is updated. (The Category A register advises stakeholders of EFIC's potential involvement in projects with a potential for significant environmental and social impact).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(5) (a) EFIC received three submissions from civil society organisations (CSOs): Oxfam Australia, Jubilee Australia and the Mineral Policy Institute. (b), (c), (d) and (e) EFIC organised a workshop in December 2010 with the three CSOs that responded to its request for submissions on its Environment Policy Review (discussed under question 6). One of the outcomes of that workshop was an agreement that EFIC will publish on its website:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">- copies of the submissions received (subject to the author's consent);</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">- EFIC's response to the submissions. This comprises an analysis of the submissions that was used as the basis for the workshop discussions; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">- a paper summarising the workshop outcomes. This was prepared by an independent facilitator engaged for the workshop and represents a set of agreed outcomes that will help inform the finalisation of EFIC's revised Policy and associated Procedure.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(6) EFIC organised an independently facilitated one day workshop between EFIC, DFAT and the three CSOs that made submissions on its Environment Policy Review. The workshop's aims were to:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">- provide an opportunity for EFIC and the CSOs to discuss the Policy, Procedure and the submissions, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">- identify and develop some consensus views that will inform the Policy and Procedure finalisation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">- An independent facilitator was engaged for the workshop to both facilitate discussions and also to prepare a paper summarising the workshop outcomes.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(7) EFIC has internal expertise in environmental and social impact assessment and management. However EFIC did not engaged an independent corporate social responsibility expert. A combination of that expertise and consultation with stakeholders and the other activities noted above has provided a broad basis for the preparation of the new Policy and Procedure.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The preparation of the proposed new Policy and Procedure for EFIC's environmental and social review of transactions has been in progress for about 18 months and was informed by a broad range of activities including:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">- direct discussions with stakeholders as outlined in the responses to previous questions;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">- the participation of EFIC's staff in a variety of external forums. Coincidental to EFIC's Environment Policy review there has been a review by the International Finance Corporation of the Performance Standards (EFIC's benchmark) and a review of the Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development "Common Approaches" (EFIC's international obligation). EFIC staff have been actively participating in these reviews.</para></quote>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Export Finance and Insurance Corporation (Question No. 351)</title>
          <page.no>2206</page.no>
          <id.no>351</id.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp></time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Ludlam</name>
    <name.id>I07</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>asked the Minister representing the Minister for Trade, upon notice, on 13 December 2010:</para>
<quote><para class="block">With reference to the current environment policy and reporting procedures of the Export Finance and Insurance Corporation (EFIC), and drawing on examples of the export credit agencies operating in Canada, the United States of America (US) and Japan:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) In terms of establishing international benchmarks for the practice of export credit agencies and their environment policies, is it fair to compare EFIC to other export credit agencies such as Export Development Canada (EDC), Export-Import Bank of the United States (Ex-Im Bank) and the Japan Bank for International Cooperation (JBIC); if not, why not.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) Has EFIC adopted an environment policy that is consistent or comparative with the environment policies adopted by EDC, Ex-Im Bank and JBIC.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) Is EFIC complying with industry best practice; if so, can a copy of its guidelines, policies or standards outlining industry best practice be provided.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(4) Given that the EDC's implementation and compliance with its Environmental Review Directive is reviewed every 5 years by the Auditor General of Canada: (a) has EFIC's implementation and compliance with its environment policy been independently reviewed and audited by the Australian Auditor-General or an independent third party in the past 5 years; and (b) is there anything in the Export Finance and Insurance Corporation Act 1991 (the Act) that prevents the Australian Auditor-General performing this audit.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(5) Can the Minister confirm that the export credit agencies Ex-Im Bank and JBIC disclose monthly summaries of the minutes of meetings of the Board of Directors, in addition to media releases published, in order to provide a level of public accountability and to keep domestic stakeholders up to date with transactions.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(6) Does EFIC disclose summaries of its Board minutes to the Australian public; if not, is there anything in the Act that prevents EFIC from disclosing these summaries to the Australian public.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(7) Given that the Canadian export credit agency, EDC, has at least one corporate social responsibility (CSR) representative on the Board of Directors, does EFIC have a CSR representative/expert on their Board; if not, is there anything in the Act that prevents the appointment of a CSR representative/expert to the EFIC Board.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(8) With reference to the JBIC and Ex-Im Bank process, where, after receiving submissions on Category A projects, a summary of their benchmarking against International Finance Corporation Performance Standards is published to demonstrate compliance and transparency to domestic stakeholders: (a) how many Category A projects did EFIC disclose in the 2009-10 financial year; (b) does EFIC respond to public submissions on Category A projects beyond a letter of acknowledgement; if not, is there anything in the Act that prevents EFIC from responding to the substance contained in public submissions; and (c) does EFIC publish summaries of project benchmarking; if not, is there anything in the Act that prevents EFIC from disclosing summaries of project benchmarking.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp></time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Conroy</name>
    <name.id>3L6</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Minister for Trade has provided the following answer to the honourable senator's question:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) The Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) export credit agencies (ECAs) have agreed that they will use a common approach for addressing environmental issues relating to officially supported export credits. The agreement is referred to as the OECD Common Approaches. As a result, all OECD ECAs (including EFIC, EDC, Ex-Im Bank and JBIC) apply the same standard for transactions involving officially supported export credits.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">However, a number of ECAs provide products and services beyond officially supported export credits that are appropriate to their Government mandate. As an example, US Ex-Im's mandate is largely focussed on the provision of export credits, whilst, in addition to export credits, JBIC provides a broader range of products in fulfilling a development and strategic acquisition role for Japan. EDC in Canada has a very broad mandate and operates more closely to a commercial bank.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Accordingly, the environmental policies of ECAs may need to cover both export credits and other types of business. The variations in mandate and differences in environment policies make direct comparisons somewhat difficult.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) As indicated in the response to question 1 it is difficult to directly compare EFIC's Environment Policy with the environmental policies of other ECAs. Some points of difference may further illustrate this:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">EFIC has adopted the International Finance Corporation (IFC) Performance Standards as its benchmark for conducting environmental and social reviews of transactions (since the IFC Performance Standards were introduced in 2006 no other benchmark has been used by EFIC for transactions). The other three ECAs referenced in the question nominate and use either the World Bank Safeguard Policies or the IFC Performance Standards depending on the transaction type.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">EFIC's Environment Policy applies to all transactions. EFIC understands that this is not the case for EDC and the Ex-Im Bank while JBIC's position is unclear in this respect.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">EFIC considers that the standards and procedures nominated in its Environment Policy benchmark well in comparison to that of any other OECD ECA.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) The IFC Performance Standards are widely regarded as the best practice benchmark for environmental and social assessment. The Performance Standards and associated Guidelines are applicable to almost any type of activity.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">A copy of the Performance Standards and Guidelines can be found at:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">http://www.ifc.org/ifcext/sustainability.nsf/Content/PerformanceStandards</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">EFIC occasionally supplements the IFC Performance Standards with other guidelines or standards and this is determined according to the needs of specific transactions. For example, EFIC has referenced the community development toolkit of the International Council on Metals and Mining (ICMM) and has also used the Human Rights Guidance Tool for the Financial Sector developed by the United Nations Environment Programme Finance Initiative (UNEP FI).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(4) (a)There is no legislative requirement that the Australian Auditor-General audit EFIC's Environment Policy. The last external review of EFIC's implementation of its Environment Policy was commissioned by EFIC from PriceWaterhouseCoopers in 2004.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">As part of its current Environment Policy review, EFIC is considering a regular independent audit of the application of its Environment Policy. The audit frequency has yet to be determined. EFIC's preference would be to engage a specialised environmental consultancy to undertake the proposed audit so that people with the requisite experience and skills are involved, which would enhance the effectiveness of the audit.(b)There is nothing in the Export Finance and Insurance Corporation Act 1991 (the EFIC Act) that prevents the Australian Auditor-General performing this audit. The appointment of the Australian Auditor-General to perform such an audit would be regulated by the Auditor-General Act 1997 (Cth).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(5) The US Ex-Im Bank publishes a brief summary of its Board meetings. The information provided is limited to the names of the parties involved in a transaction, the transaction type, the amount and term of the financial support provided for the transaction, the country where the transaction is located and the Board's decision.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">JBIC does not appear to publish summaries of its Board of Directors meetings nor do any other OECD or non-OECD ECA publish information concerning Board meetings.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(6) EFIC complies with the reporting and other obligations of a Commonwealth authority under the Commonwealth Authorities and Companies Act 1997 (Cth)(CAC Act). Those reporting obligations do not include the provision of summaries of its Board minutes. Section 87 of the EFIC Act contains provisions which prohibit the disclosure by EFIC employees, officers and Board members of information relating to EFIC's business under the EFIC Act.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(7) The 2009 EDC Annual Report reveals there are no Board members with responsibility for CSR. EDC has an individual in its Executive whose responsibilities include CSR issues, as does EFIC. Appointments to the EFIC Board (other than the Managing Director) are made by the Minister. Both the EFIC Act and the CAC Act impose obligations and duties on EFIC Board members, including a duty to act in the best interests of EFIC with due care, skill and diligence.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Before an EFIC board position is vacated, depending on the specific position and taking account of the skills required to ensure that the Board has appropriate balanced membership to meet its functions, an extensive list of potential candidates is prepared. This list is then provided to the Minister and a short list of candidates determined. The candidates short listed are contacted and resumes submitted. The Minister then selects a suitable candidate from this list.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(8) (a) EFIC disclosed its potential involvement in three Category A projects during the 2009-2010 financial year. (b) EFIC provides a letter of acknowledgement to those that make a written submission on Category A projects. EFIC incorporates these submissions into its due diligence process prior to making a decision to provide or decline support for a transaction. Section 87 of the EFIC Act contains provisions which prohibit the disclosure by EFIC employees, officers and Board members of information relating to EFIC's business under the EFIC Act. (c) EFIC does not publish summaries of project benchmarking. EFIC is aware of only one ECA that regularly publishes a summary of project benchmarking; JBIC, which publishes a very brief overview of each of its 'Category A' projects. The published summary contains little information on a project's environmental and social impacts and resultant management response. JBIC is also not a directly comparable organisation to EFIC as it also fulfils a development and strategic acquisition role for Japan.</para></quote>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Automotive Industry Structural Adjustment Program (Question No. 380)</title>
          <page.no>2208</page.no>
          <id.no>380</id.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp></time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Colbeck</name>
    <name.id>00AOL</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>asked the Minister for Innovation, Industry, Science and Research, upon notice, on 3 February 2011:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) What amount of funding has been spent and/or committed under the Automotive Industry Structural Adjustment Program (AISAP).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) How many companies have received funding under the AISAP; of these, how many have merged and with whom have they merged.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) How many individuals have received funding under the AISAP.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(4) What amount of funding remains uncommitted under the AISAP for the 2010-11 financial year and for each (if any) subsequent year.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp></time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Carr</name>
    <name.id>AW5</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The answer to the honourable senator's question is as follows:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) As at 25 January 2011, $35,213,036 had been committed under the structural adjustment element of AISAP.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The total amount of funding spent under the labour market element of AISAP as at 25 January 2011 is $9 million (this element is the responsibility of the Department of Education, Employment and Workplace Relations (DEEWR)).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) As at 25 January 2011, nine companies had received funding under the structural adjustment element of AISAP. Of these, three companies had received funding assistance to undertake mergers and acquisitions. Information regarding mergers and acquisitions is commercial in confidence.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) As at 25 January 2011 there were a total of 2,718 job seekers who received support as a result of funding provided under the labour market element of the AISAP (DEEWR).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(4) As at 25 January 2011, $34.495 million remained uncommitted under the structural adjustment element of AISAP for the financial year 2010-11. No funding is appropriated for subsequent years under the structural adjustment element of AISAP.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">As at 25 January 2011, there is a total of $27.3 million uncommitted funds under the labour market element of AISAP (DEEWR).</para></quote>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Coal Seam Gas (Question No. 406)</title>
          <page.no>2209</page.no>
          <id.no>406</id.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp></time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Bob Brown</name>
    <name.id>QD4</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>asked the Minister representing the Minister for Climate Change and Energy Efficiency, upon notice, on 25 February 2011:</para>
<quote><para class="block">In regard to the extraction of coal seam gas:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) What is the average amount of methane released in such operations.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) What is the estimated maximum for methane release.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) How is such a release measured.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp></time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Wong</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Minister for Climate Change and Energy Efficiency has provided the following answer to the honourable senator's question:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Methane emissions from the extraction of coal seam gas are estimated and reported within the National Greenhouse Accounts, as part of the fugitive emissions from natural gas production and processing, venting and flaring. It is not possible to separately identify the emissions associated with the extraction of coal seam gas. According to the National Greenhouse Accounts, fugitive methane emissions from natural gas production and processing (leakage and venting) for Australia in 2008 were 33,335 tonnes.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The National Greenhouse and Energy Reporting (Measurement) Determination 2008 (the Determination) provides methods and criteria for calculating greenhouse gas emissions and energy data under the National Greenhouse and Energy Reporting Act 2007. Methodologies for determining the fugitive methane emissions from the extraction of coal seam gas are provided in the Determination under Divisions 3.3.6 and 3.3.9 for natural gas production and processing.</para></quote>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Permanent Migration Program (Question No. 412)</title>
          <page.no>2209</page.no>
          <id.no>412</id.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp></time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Cash</name>
    <name.id>I0M</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>asked the Minister representing the Minister for Immigration and Citizenship, upon notice, on 1 March 2011:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) What formula or formulas are used to calculate: (a) the total annual level of permanent migration targeted over the past 5 years (2006 to 2011); and b) the total annual level of skilled and family permanent migration over the same period.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) Has the formula, or its parameters, changed between 2006 and 2011; if so: (a) in what way; and (b) what have been the impacts on the targeted level of migration.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) What are the objectives which drive the level of permanent migration in Australia.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(4) What work has been undertaken to assess whether the targeted levels of permanent migration have met these objectives.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp></time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Carr</name>
    <name.id>AW5</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Minister for Immigration and Citizenship has provided the following answer to the honourable senator's question:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) (a) and (b) The Permanent Migration Program is planned and managed on an annual basis through the setting of the annual permanent skill and family intake levels.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In determining the size and composition of the Migration Program, a range of factors are considered, including:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">- immediate and forecast long-term social, demographic and economic trends;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">- expected demand for skilled labour in key occupations and industries over the medium to long term;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">- estimated demand for Migration Program places within categories that are uncapped under existing legislation, in particular the Partner and Child categories;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">- specific social, economic and labour market advice and analysis from other Australian Government agencies including Skills Australia, as well as feedback from key industry and business bodies, community groups and state and territory governments through the conduct of annual migration program consultation meetings and receipt of written submissions;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">- research and analysis of the current and projected labour demand in Australia;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">- an identified need to address critical immediate and emerging longer term labour force skill shortages, that are unable to be met by the domestic labour market or training schemes or through temporary migration programs; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">- the economic and social contribution of the permanent migration program and any adjustment costs and wider considerations which need be balanced against the above considerations.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Annual permanent migration planning levels are indicative and are revised and reviewed regularly by the Government to ensure that they are meeting their aim. The proportion of visa grants in Skill Stream categories can be readjusted in response to changes in economic circumstances.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) (a) and (b) The method of determining the size and composition of the annual Migration Program has not changed over the last five years. However, since 2010 the Department analysed temporary migration trends alongside permanent migration program trends. This information has been considered alongside the migration program to ensure that immigration levels are optimal in terms of their economic contribution, and balanced against adjustment costs which flow from resultant population growth.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) The Migration Program has the objective of facilitating the entry of migrants who can contribute to economic growth by enhancing the size, skill level and productivity of the Australian labour force; as well as the reunion of immediate family members such as partners and children, and other family members within the extent that the social gain is balanced against the fiscal cost.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(4) The Department consults industry, businesses and community groups on the effectiveness of the Migration Program to meet their critical skill and social needs. Input from these consultations is considered as part of future Migration Program planning. Regular internal and external evaluations and reviews of migration programs and policies are also undertaken to ensure these are meeting their objectives. For example the Independent category of the Skill Stream was reviewed in 2010, and the Business Skills and Employer Sponsored Category is currently under review, as is the Student Visa program which is a key feeder category for the permanent program.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Department regularly commissions external research on current and emerging issues associated with immigration, population, multiculturalism and settlement and undertakes evaluations to assess the effectiveness and acceptability of migration priorities, legislation and policy settings.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Longitudinal and continuous surveys of Australia's migrants are conducted to evaluate the labour market and settlement outcomes of migrants. The Department also collects and analyses a range of immigration related statistics to monitor the progress of our programs.</para></quote>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Indonesia (Question No. 413)</title>
          <page.no>2211</page.no>
          <id.no>413</id.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp></time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Hanson-Young</name>
    <name.id>I0U</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>asked the Minister representing the Minister for Immigration and Citizenship, upon notice, on 2 March 2011:</para>
<quote><para class="block">With reference to the Government's promise to resettle 500 UNHCR registered refugees from Indonesia: Can the Government confirm whether this target has been met; if not (a) how many from the promised 500 have been resettled; and (b) what will be the timeframe for resettling the remaining refugees.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp></time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Carr</name>
    <name.id>AW5</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Minister for Immigration and Citizenship has provided the following answer to the honourable senator's question:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(a) The Australian Government resettles UNHCR mandated refugees from a number of locations globally.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In relation to refugees resettled from Indonesia, in the 2009–10 Program year (which runs from 1 July to 30 June), 109 visas were granted to UNHCR mandated refugees under the Humanitarian Program.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In the 2010–11 Program year to 28 February 2011, 457 visas have been granted to UNHCR mandated refugees in Indonesia under the Humanitarian Program.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) Most refugees who are granted visas travel shortly after visa grant, however this is subject to flight availability and ensuring that appropriate settlement services are available in Australia.</para></quote>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Hungary (Question No. 414)</title>
          <page.no>2211</page.no>
          <id.no>414</id.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp></time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Boyce</name>
    <name.id>H6V</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>asked the Minister representing the Minister for Justice, upon notice, on 3 March 2011:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(1)When the Minister decided on 12 November 2009 that Mr Charles Zentai be extradited to the Republic of Hungary, was the Minister aware of any of the following information that had been provided to the Commonwealth Attorney General's Department and the Minister's office:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) that the Commonwealth Director of Public Prosecution (DPP) had advised the Australian Federal Police (AFP) that there was no evidence to support a charge against Mr Zentai of a war crime (or any other crime);</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) that the DPP and the AFP had therefore decided not to prosecute Mr Zentai for the alleged war crime, although if there had been sufficient evidence to support a charge, (which there was not) it would have been open to the Australian authorities to charge Mr Zentai and have him tried in Australia, rather than extradite him;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) that the Republic of Hungary only wanted Mr Zentai to be extradited to Hungary for interrogation, as no charge has been laid against him.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) If the Minister was aware of all or any of that information: (a) what information was he aware of; and (b) did he give consideration to it before making his extradition determination; if so, what were his reasons for deciding that an Australian citizen, Mr Zentai, be extradited to Hungary.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) If the Minister was not aware of any or some of that information before he made the decision to extradite Mr Zentai, was he made aware of it after the decision of Federal Court Justice McKerracher in December 2010; if so, why did the Minister authorise an appeal against Justice McKerracher's decision that had set aside the Minister's determination to extradite Mr Zentai.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(4) Has the Minister ever suggested to the Hungarian authorities that they conduct their 'investigation' and/or 'interrogation' of Mr Zentai in Australia; if so, what was the Republic of Hungary's response; if not, why has the Minister not made that suggestion to the Republic of Hungary, having regard to the age and health of Mr Zentai, the fact that the Hungarian authorities have said they only want him for interrogation and the fact that Mr Zentai has stated that he is prepared to cooperate with investigators and is prepared to answer questions on oath.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(5) To date:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a)what has been the total cost to the Commonwealth Government (including departmental personnel time and cost) in seeking to extradite Mr Zentai; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b)what is the estimated further cost of pursuing the appeal against the decision of Justice McKerracher.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp></time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Ludwig</name>
    <name.id>84N</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Minister for Justice has provided the following answer to the honourable senator ' s question:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) As set out in the judgment of His Honour Justice McKerracher in Zentai v Honourable Brendan O'Connor (No 3) [2010] FCA 691, prior to making a surrender determination in respect of Mr Zentai, the Minister was provided with a submission (annexing relevant documentation) prepared by the Attorney-General's Department. The submission discussed advice provided by the Commonwealth Director of Public Prosecutions to the Australian Federal Police on evidentiary issues relating to the allegations against Mr Zentai and also discussed the basis on which the Republic of Hungary sought Mr Zentai's extradition. As the issues raised by Senator Boyce are the subject of proceedings currently before the Full Court of the Federal Court, it is not appropriate to comment further.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) The submission prepared by the Attorney-General's Department referred to in response to Question (1) above was before the Minister at the time he determined that Mr Zentai was to be surrendered to Hungary to face prosecution for a war crime. In view of the issues raised in current litigation in this matter, it is not appropriate to comment further.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) The decision of Mr Justice McKerracher of 2 July 2010 raises significant and complex issues for the administration of Australia's extradition scheme. It is appropriate that an appeal be pursued.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(4) The Republic of Hungary made a formal request under the Treaty on Extradition between Australia and the Republic of Hungary for the extradition of Mr Zentai to face prosecution for a war crime. Australia has an obligation to consider that request in accordance with the Treaty and the Extradition Act 1988.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(5) (a) The approximate cost to the Commonwealth of litigation in the matter of Mr Zentai's extradition to date is $455,000 (including GST and disbursements). These include costs of approximately $247, 000 incurred in earlier proceedings instituted by Mr Zentai challenging various aspects of the extradition process, including the constitutionality of the Extradition Act 1988. Mr Zentai was unsuccessful in those proceedings. The Australian Central Authority for extradition in the Attorney-General's Department does not maintain records of the time particular officers spend on particular matters. (b) It would be inappropriate to provide an estimate of the costs of the current appeal proceedings in circumstances where the proceedings are ongoing and at a relatively early stage.</para></quote>
<para> </para>
<para> </para>
<para> </para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
  </chamber.xscript>
</hansard>