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<hansard noNamespaceSchemaLocation="../../hansard.xsd" version="2.2">
  <session.header>
    <date>2026-09-17</date>
    <parliament.no>3</parliament.no>
    <session.no>1</session.no>
    <period.no>0</period.no>
    <chamber>Senate</chamber>
    <page.no>0</page.no>
    <proof>1</proof>
  </session.header>
  <chamber.xscript>
    <business.start>
      <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
        <p class="HPS-SODJobDate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
          <span class="HPS-SODJobDate">
            <span style="font-weight:bold;" />
            <a href="Chamber" type="">Thursday, 17 September 2026</a>
          </span>
        </p>
        <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
          <span class="HPS-Normal">
            <span style="font-weight:bold;">The PRESIDENT (Senator </span>
            <span style="font-weight:bold;">the Hon. </span>
            <span style="font-weight:bold;">Sue Lines</span>
            <span style="font-weight:bold;">)</span> took the chair at 09:00, made an acknowledgement of country and read prayers.</span>
        </p>
      </body>
    </business.start>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>1</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <debate.text>
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          <p class="HPS-Debate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Debate">DOCUMENTS</span>
          </p>
        </body>
      </debate.text>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Tabling</title>
          <page.no>1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Tabling</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Normal">
                <span style="font-weight:bold;">The Clerk:</span>  I table documents pursuant to statute as listed on the Dynamic Red.</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Normal">
                <span style="font-style:italic;">
                </span>
                <span style="font-style:italic;">Full details of the documents are recorded in the </span>Journals of the Senate<span style="font-style:italic;">.</span></span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>BILLS</title>
        <page.no>1</page.no>
        <type>BILLS</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <debate.text>
        <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
          <p class="HPS-Debate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Debate">BILLS</span>
          </p>
        </body>
      </debate.text>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Military Rehabilitation and Compensation Amendment (Veterans' Healthcare Without Caps) Bill 2026</title>
          <page.no>1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <a href="s1518" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Military Rehabilitation and Compensation Amendment (Veterans' Healthcare Without Caps) Bill 2026</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>1</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Second Reading</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Consideration resumed of the motion:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">That this bill be now read a second time.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>1</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lambie, Sen Jacqui</name>
                <name.id>250026</name.id>
                <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
                <party>JLN</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="250026" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator LAMBIE</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Tasmania</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">09:01</span>):  On budget night this year, Australian veterans found out that the Minister for Veterans' Affairs had decided to cap allied health services. I was so alarmed that I put out a media release which pointed out that capping care for veterans flies in the face of the recommendations by the royal commissioners, that access to timely health care supports was key to getting veteran suicide numbers down.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Just a few minutes ago, Minister Keogh told Australian veterans that the cap had been scrapped. I thank the minister for hearing us loud and clear, but we still need the Military Rehabilitation and Compensation Amendment (Veterans' Healthcare Without Caps) Bill 2026. We need it to protect veterans into the future. I would like to thank my co-sponsors, Senator Pocock, Senator Shoebridge, Senator Thorpe and Senator Payman.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">This bill is about a very simple principle. If a veteran needs treatment because of their service, they should be able to get that treatment. It should not come down to a number on a spreadsheet and a limit imposed by Canberra. The government said that it was not a cap because veterans can apply for additional treatment once they reach that threshold. But let's be honest about what that means. A veteran who needs ongoing physiotherapy, occupational therapy, psychology, exercise physiology or another allied health service may reach that threshold.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Veterans have a trust deficit with the Department of Veterans' Affairs, and they have had it since the Vietnam War. Who can blame them, when the average liability claim takes the DVA over 300 days to process? Numerous reports, not to forget the seven-volume report from the royal commission, confirm that the DVA has made these assurances before and has failed to deliver. Placing an arbitrary cap on these allied health treatments just confirms what we already know, that the DVA will do whatever it can to make veterans fight and wait for the care they need.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">For some veterans, like me, these services are not optional extras. They are what allow us to walk, work, manage pain, keep our independence, take part in family and still belong to the community. This bill prevents any limit on costs for individual treatment, total costs during a particular period or a limit on the number of treatments for a service related injury. This extends beyond just allied health treatments and can apply to medical specialists, hospital and rehabilitation services, mental and health professionals and any other treatment for service related injury. The Royal Commission into Defence and Veteran Suicide made it very clear that timely, accessible and ongoing health care matters. Recommendations 71 and 72 are directly concerned with improving access to health care for veterans and strengthening the health system that supports them. This bill says that, when a veteran has an existing entitlement to treatment, that entitlement should not be cut off because a particular amount of money has already been spent or because a particular number of services has been used. It would prevent treatment entitlements from being limited by the specific cost for an individual treatment or a total cost over a period for a specified number of treatments. That means there's no arbitrary limit on allied health treatment where more treatment is clinically required.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">It also means the same principle can apply across other healthcare settings where treatment is needed. Veterans might need ongoing treatment from GPs, medical specialists, hospital and rehabilitation services, mental health professionals and other appropriately qualified health professionals. For some veterans, these services might be required regularly, while for others it's for many years because of the nature of their service related injury or disease. Their access to necessary treatment should not be restricted simply because some bean counter somewhere thought he could save the department money. You can never ever put a price on a veteran's life.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I also want to be clear about what this bill does not do. It does not mean there should be no oversight or that every treatment should be automatically funded. There should still be proper clinical governance. There should still be standards for quality and safety as well as safeguards against fraud, abuse and, critically, inappropriately provided conduct. That is why we're standing here today—because of provider conduct. But those safeguards should not be confused with an arbitrary financial cap.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I'm calling on the major parties to put the interests of veterans first and support this bill. Veterans should not have to wait for another review or another approval process before they can access the treatment that is needed, because it plays terribly on their mental health. This is about making sure that, when a veteran has accepted service related injury or disease, they can get clinically necessary treatment when they need it.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Finally, I would like to thank all the veterans; the advocates; the mothers, especially you, Julie-Ann Finney; and the Australians, especially the over 30,000 that shared and signed my petition. You got this done. When we stand up united, we win.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">McAllister, Sen Jenny</name>
                <name.id>121628</name.id>
                <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="121628" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator McALLISTER</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for the National Disability Insurance Scheme</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">09:07</span>):  Later today, this chamber will have the opportunity to consider two bills which substantially advance the recommendations of the Royal Commission into Defence and Veteran Suicide. These bills will implement 20 recommendations and support the implementation of an additional 20, and I look forward to that debate because I acknowledge the commitment in this chamber to supporting the veteran community. I acknowledge, in particular, Senator Lambie, who, in her entire time in the Senate, has chosen to use that time to advocate for the veteran community and, in doing so, has engaged in a very constructive way with our government. That is something that we appreciate very much.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Our government has deep respect for our veterans, who have served and who continue to serve our country, and anyone who pulls on the nation's uniform to serve in our name deserves nothing less than respect. Our 2026 budget featured a proposal to make the biggest increase to allied health fees, paid by the Department of Veterans' Affairs to support veterans, in 20 years. This proposal was coupled with a plan to reduce the administrative burden for 90 per cent of veterans, allied health practitioners and GPs, with the removal of the current treatment cycle in favour of a new system. The proposed threshold measure set out to reduce the burden on veterans to go back to a GP every 12 allied health visits for a new referral, instead expanding this to a $5,000 threshold before a veteran's care is reviewed.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">We've been consulting on this measure, and we have heard from veterans that there are concerns about this approach. We've been listening carefully, and today the government is taking the proposed $5,000 threshold off the table. We will not change our commitment to improving access to allied health care through the fee increase to allied health providers. Fees for allied health providers supporting veterans will increase on 1 July 2027, as planned. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">We will continue to engage with the veteran and provider community on how we can continue to deliver on the objective of achieving better veteran wellbeing outcomes while ensuring the integrity of the system. I thank those members of the veterans community who have engaged with us on this question so far. We appreciate very much the constructive nature of that engagement and your feedback. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">As I said, I wish to thank Senator Lambie for her advocacy and cooperation on this measure in particular. We cannot support the bill that is being brought forward today by Senator Lambie because of the changes that we've announced today and because the way it is drafted potentially introduces unintended consequences, but we will continue to work with the veterans community and we will continue to work with Senator Lambie as we continue our work to support veterans. </span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Cash, Sen Michaelia</name>
                <name.id>I0M</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="I0M" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CASH</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Western Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Leader of the Opposition in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">09:10</span>):  I too rise to speak on the Military Rehabilitation and Compensation Amendment (Veterans' Healthcare Without Caps) Bill 2026. At its heart, this bill is about the principle. When an Australian veteran has an accepted service related injury or disease, access to treatment should be determined by clinical need, not by an arbitrary monetary or numerical cap imposed by the government. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">That brings me to what has just occurred, and that is the announcement by the Albanese Labor government that the $5,000 cap on allied health will no longer be proceeded with. Let's just remember, though, how we got to this stage and, in particular, why Senator Lambie has today brought this bill before the Senate. Sadly, this is not because the government listened. This is because the Australian Senate, the Australian people and veterans across Australia shouted their disgust at what this government had proposed. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">For over two weeks now in this place, the Australian Senate, the opposition and the crossbenchers—not the government side—have made it clear to the government that we are opposed to this disgraceful treatment of our veterans. In fact, the Australian Senate—again, not the government senators but the entire opposition and crossbench—united to amend a bill, the Statute Update Bill, to scrap this $5,000 cap. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">That was last week. On Monday, that bill was presented to the House of Representatives. Instead of acknowledging the pain and suffering that they had caused our veterans; instead of acknowledging that veterans had travelled to Canberra and had laid down their medals at the front of Parliament House; instead of acknowledging the will of the Australian Senate, on behalf of the veterans of Australia, in saying that this $5,000 cap was nothing more and nothing less than cruel and, what's worse, a budget saving by the Albanese government, who've lost control of spending—do you know what the Prime Minister and the Minister for Veterans' Affairs did? They said, 'We'll deal with it at another time.' </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Instead of owning their mistake—we'll go through the number of mistakes that this government has had to own when it comes to our veterans—they didn't have the guts to deal with it there and then. They didn't have the guts to deal with the fact that the Australian Senate—again, not the Labor senators; they'll go down, don't worry; it's recorded in <span style="font-style:italic;">Hansard</span> where their vote went—the entire opposition and crossbench, united to say this is wrong. We amended legislation and sent it to the House. The government didn't have the guts to deal with it. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Then the government today—not because they listened, but because of the political pressure that has been put on the Minister for Veterans' Affairs yet again—has had to stand up and say they won't proceed with the $5,000 cap. But, as with anything that this government does, I suggest you listen to the announcement and then you read the press release because, whilst they may not be proceeding with their cruel $5,000 cap on our veterans' allied health, the press release makes pretty clear they've still got to look for savings. What a total joke.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">So this government hasn't actually made a considered policy choice today. It's backflipped because the Australian people yet again united against Mr Albanese and Mr Keogh. They stood up and they said, 'We have had enough,' on behalf of the veterans of Australia. The veterans stood up. Let's not forget how Minister Keogh treated them when they came to parliament. He didn't want to meet with them. He was then forced to meet with them. When they arrived at his office, he didn't shake their hands. The minister for veterans didn't shake the hands of men and women who have actually fought for this country, men and women who protect our freedoms on a daily basis. He didn't want to shake their hands. It's been reported by veterans that he rolled his eyes at them. What's worse is he crossed his arms and then said: 'I could have been down at drinks with the blasted Governor-General.' You've got to be kidding me. That's how the Minister for Veterans' Affairs treats our veterans.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The veterans stood up. Their families stood up. The Australian people stood up. Veteran advocates stood up. Allied health professionals stood up. The Australian Senate—minus, of course, the Labor senators, and, as I said, don't worry; you can make as many excuses as you like today but your vote is there on the <span style="font-style:italic;">Hansard</span> record—all stood up. Australians who simply believe—and this is what this bill that Senator Lambie has brought before the Senate does today—that the men and women of our country who served our country deserve better stood up.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Today we've seen the end result of what happens, Australia, when you stand up and you speak with one voice against the government. The government hasn't made a considered policy decision, sadly, but it has been forced to backflip. The message I think that all of us here today have for the government is: 'Don't think you're getting off the hook. There's a bill before the Senate here today that you could support.' What we've just heard from the government is that they won't be supporting it. Why don't you show the veterans here today that you stand with them? Why don't you support Senator Lambie's bill? You're happy to come here and congratulate Senator Lambie on what she does each and every day for our veterans, but then you won't support her bill.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">So we put the government on notice that we will watch them in this space, because they have a pattern of behaviour here, sadly, of making decisions that are not in the best interests of veterans and then, because of public pressure, they have to back down. Look at the pattern. On retrospective honours there was a retreat. There was the Baird family. I have to say, coming from Western Australia, in particular, where we are the home of the SAS, that decision to take away the funding that was given to Cameron Baird's parents so that they could travel around our great country and just remind people of what our veterans do and why people like their son are actually awarded the Victoria Cross—a measly few thousand dollars—I will never understand. I will never understand how the Minister for Veterans' Affairs signs off on a brief that says, 'Take that money away.' On taking money from Invictus Australia they've retreated. On refusing to meet with veterans who came to the parliament they retreated. And now there's the $5,000 allied health cap retreat.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Sadly, as so many now say, the minister for Veterans' Affairs in this country doesn't deserve the privilege of being this minister. It doesn't really matter what he says today or what the Prime Minister says today because of their actions and the pattern of behaviour that they have indulged in since they have been in government, taking decisions that are actually not in the best interests of our veterans. We'll remind the Australian people of them each and every day—don't worry about that—because they know that you are not dinkum when you stand up today and you say that you're backflipping on the $5,000 allied health cap. Let's see what else you do to your veterans, and we will hold you to account.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The Senate spoke, the veterans spoke, the Australian people spoke. We have Senator Lambie's bill that is currently before the Senate. As I said, it's a very simple proposition in terms of what it actually does. We should never forget why we are today in the position that we are (a) as a Senate debating this bill but (b) listening to the minister make the backflip. Veterans fought, families fought, Australians fought, and the Australian Senate minus every one of those Labor senators fought. They stood up and they said: 'We're going to hold you to account, Mr Albanese. We're going to hold you to account, Minister Keogh, for your disgraceful behaviour when it comes to the veterans of Australia.' Our veterans fought for Australia. They should not have to keep fighting their own government. They deserve better, and I commend Senator Lambie for bringing this bill before the Senate today.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>4</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Cadell, Sen Ross</name>
                <name.id>300134</name.id>
                <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                <party>NATS</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="300134" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CADELL</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Nationals Whip in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">09:21</span>):  We've had the announcement this morning that the government will no longer hurt the allied health provisions for our veterans, but it needs to go further. Part of the Military Rehabilitation and Compensation Amendment (Veterans’ Healthcare Without Caps) Bill 2026 is going further. It's about helping them. Not hurting is not good enough. We have gone through this process. So many people in this room—Senator Lambie; Senator Scarr, who's not here; Senator Shoebridge; and I—heard this when we were in estimates and went down that path. We knew it was wrong then. It has come to this point two or three months later. It's taken this long. Veterans have gone through all of this journey, being worried about what would happen. Senator Lambie did a great speech the other day when she said, 'Don't worry. We've got time to fix it. We're going to get it fixed,' to try and help some of their mental health that was exacerbated. Their problems were exacerbated even by saying this was going to happen.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">We've got a backdown. We don't know how solid that will be. We don't know if the increasing in fees that was part of this will be there. We don't know the help—the things that have to happen to help veterans. We don't know what form this backdown takes. That's why passing this bill is important. We need to solidify and concrete these aids. We need to get on the record that we value the service of our veterans. We value the vow they made to defend our country, and we will not change our word. We will not go back on our deal. We will support them in black and white. This is what we'll do—not words, actions. That is why we hijacked—let's be honest; this Senate hijacked—the statute bill. We had to. We had to have something they had to consider over there. We had to have something they needed to pass to get this through.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">This is not a victory for the Senate. It's not a victory for most people. It's a victory for the veterans. It is for Dr Tim Nelson. It is for Ruth Rogers in Singleton. It is for James Burns in Scone. It is for Phil Thompson. It is for Senator Lambie. It is a victory for the people that honoured their word to defend Australia while we decided to revoke ours. We can't celebrate this backdown. We should commiserate that it ever had to get to this. We should question a government that decides a saving is more important than our veterans. We should be saying, 'How is this a thing?' When we saw these people, as Senator Cash said, laying down their medals, when we saw them coming in trying to meet people and get their—'I needed a cup of tea with a Governor-General.' Having a cuppa with the Governor-General is more important than honouring the people you're meant to represent in the cabinet.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">We've got the announcement. It's time for action. This bill is the action we need to codify what we expect, to codify the changes and to make sure this cap is not just gone but dead, buried, cremated and then distributed to the far corners of the Earth. Anything short of that can be turned around tomorrow. 'Let's just change it tomorrow.' That is why we brought it in here today. We're going to have a long, big, deep dive into how this has failed, because there are so many failures.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">A friend of mine sent an email the other day. They've got medallic recognition for something. They can purchase their own medal if they want to wear it. I always thought the first medals were free and replacements cost money. But, no, they can purchase their medallic recognition. We've heard about the other failures.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">So well done to the veterans out there. Well done for standing up. You shouldn't have to fight your own government simply for volunteering to potentially fight our enemies. That is the sickness of where this has come to. And, if there's one thing this government has shown to every other group out there, it's to get angry and get vocal. We know their answers on just about everything aren't working. On just about everything—they'll pass some legislation; they'll move some stuff—they aren't working. They're not doing what they want them to do. You have to get vocal, you have to get angry, you have to stand up and you have to put the government in a position where they have to do something they don't want to do and where, though they don't want to do the right thing, they have to do the right thing. Well done, veterans. Once again, we value you. Congratulations on your victory. We will support this bill. You need more victories like this.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>4</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Shoebridge, Sen David</name>
                <name.id>169119</name.id>
                <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                <party>AG</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="169119" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator SHOEBRIDGE</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">09:25</span>):  It's pretty extraordinary that we need a piece of legislation that says the government can't put arbitrary caps and ceilings on the legitimate health services for veterans. It is extraordinary that we have to come in here and legislate to say, for any class of Australians who need allied health care and medical help, that the government can't put an arbitrary dollar cap on it. But that's what we have to do today.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">To all those veterans out there who were feeling so anxious—and they were right to be anxious—about what this government had decided to do to them—to put in place a $5,000 cap on allied health; to all those veterans who had the mental strength, the social connections and the political connections to come together and campaign against that; to all those veterans who needed their friends, colleagues and partners in this place to do it—to all of you, I want to say congratulations on the campaign. We just saw this morning the government cave in and say they're going to scrap the cap, and that's been the call from veterans.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I want to give a shout out to Senator Lambie for her work in this space. Bringing lived experience onto the floor of this chamber is absolutely critical. Telling it like it is—someone who's been ground through the system—is absolutely critical. I think it cuts through in this space and lets us do work around her and support that work to actually get outcomes for veterans. So I want to acknowledge the work of Jacqui—Senator Lambie. But I absolutely want to give acknowledgement to the veterans community.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I know that there is this position from the coalition that somehow Labor is uniquely bad on veterans. It's just not true. Labor are following a great coalition tradition of screwing over veterans. When the coalition were in government—I can't remember how bloody long it was, but it was the better part of a decade—the wait list for veterans to get basic entitlements had blown out to the tens of thousands. Veterans were waiting years to get a decision out of Veterans' Affairs.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I'm going to beat up the Albanese Labor government every time they fail, but I'm going to acknowledge that they put the funding into Veterans' Affairs to deal with those wait lists. It was a real thing; it was a real investment. And I'm going to say that I saw Minister Keogh try and drive through that change—tick! But what the bloody hell was with the caps? You do all that—you start building trust amongst veterans—and then you just wipe it all off the table by coming in with a $5,000 arbitrary cap on allied health care. The little bit of trust that veterans might have been getting with the system just shattered again. And they're sick of it. Veterans I talk to are sick of it. They're sick of having to be political playthings and having to play politics to just get basic decency out of the government. Just like they had to play politics when the coalition wouldn't process their claims and left them hanging for years without treatment and without compensation, now they've had to play politics again and find everyone they can work with in order to overturn this appalling $5,000 cap. Again, I am going to say it is good to see the minister finally accept reality today and scrap the cap.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I can tell you this: we've got Senate estimates coming up in a few weeks time, and I and my party, the Greens, are going to make bloody sure that the cost saving of three-quarters of a billion dollars that the government wanted to gouge out of veterans is stripped out of that budget. We can have all the talk we like in this place about legislation, but, at the end of the day, it comes down to their putting their money where their mouths are and our making sure they're not ripping three-quarters of a billion dollars away from veterans' health care.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">This was always a budget cash grab. If we were going to find out where the real nasties are in government, I reckon it was the Prime Minister, the Treasurer and some of the other senior leadership team in government, no doubt including the leader of the Senate here, all coming together and working out how they could get three-quarters of a billion dollars back into the budget. And they thought veterans would just suck it up—well, they didn't. Veterans got organised and started contacting my office and Jacqui's office. They probably started with Jacqui's office. They contacted the crossbench and then they went to the coalition as well because they just needed the numbers. To all those veterans listening, and I reckon a few of them are listening, I hope you've learnt that there are people who'll stick up for you and basically stick up for decency. That's actually a lesson we need to keep remembering in politics—that it's not all just a bunch of self-serving weasels who want to suck money from you. You need to lean into decency in politics when you see it, and veterans did. Congratulations to all of you for doing that work.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">But I also say this: I don't reckon this is over. I reckon the budget cutters—the Prime Minister and the Treasurer, no doubt—are probably still looking to get a cost saving out of veterans, and, if they can't get it through the front door, I fear they're going to try it through the back door, and we will be there fighting for you each time. The Greens went in to fight for people on the NDIS who had the government come after them to shamefully take away their benefits. And the government did that. They got the coalition onside and they stripped away benefits for people on NDIS, just a few weeks ago. We fought for the entitlements for hundreds of thousands of Australians on the NDIS. We didn't win that one, but we're not going to forget those Australians either, who deserve entitlements and deserve their benefits.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I will finish with this. The government are saying they won't support this bill because of unintended consequences. This seems to be now a Labor pattern. I don't know if anyone remembers, but it was barely a week ago when they said they wouldn't support sanctions against illegal Israeli settlements because of 'unintended consequences' on Palestinians. They seem to not want to take action to protect a group because taking action to protect the group in the large may have tiny unintended consequences over the side here. That is a rubbish reason for not supporting this bill—unintended consequences on veterans. I reckon, if you did a straw poll of 1,000 veterans and said, 'Are you willing to take as yet unspecified unintended consequences floated by Labor in a bill that says they can't make arbitrary cuts to your entitlements? Or do you want the bill to go through which says they can't do arbitrary cuts on your entitlements?' 100 per cent of veterans would line up and say, 'Support the bloody bill.'</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="e68" type="MemberInterjecting">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT </span>
                    </a>
                    <span class="HPS-GeneralBold">(</span>
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Sterle</span>
                    <span class="HPS-GeneralBold">):</span>  Senator Shoebridge, I'll just interrupt you for a second. I've listened intently since I've taken the seat, and I know you're passionate about this, but there are schoolchildren on the second level behind you and I ask you to consider your choice of words, please.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="169119" type="MemberContinuation">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator SHOEBRIDGE:</span>
                    </a>  I don't know what schoolkids you mix with, but—</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT:</span>  I don't need an argument, Senator.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="169119" type="MemberContinuation">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator SHOEBRIDGE:</span>
                    </a>  I think a word beginning with 'b'—</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT:</span>  Resume your seat. I don't need an argument. I'm quite happy to entertain it should that be the case, but I'm not going to embarrass this chamber anymore in front of our visitors. There's another group of schoolchildren over there. I've asked you to consider your language. I didn't ask you to withdraw—I could do, but I didn't.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="169119" type="MemberContinuation">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator SHOEBRIDGE:</span>
                    </a>  The standing orders wouldn't support you getting me to withdraw that. There have been multiple rulings, so you can ask me, but I won't.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT:</span>  Senator, for your social medias, that might be pretty cool. I didn't ask you to withdraw. You have the call. I ask you again: please choose your words cautiously.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="169119" type="MemberContinuation">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator SHOEBRIDGE:</span>
                    </a>  Thank you. I do choose my words carefully. I've got to tell you this: veterans are red-hot angry about what this government has done, and they're red-hot angry about politicians who are going to vote against this bill, and they're red-hot angry at the Labor Party for trying to shut down debate. They're red-hot angry about the Labor Party bringing in legislative measures to strip away three-quarters of a billion dollars from veterans without ever talking to them. And they're red-hot angry about politics in this place that tries to disguise the reality of what's happening. And they're red-hot angry about politicians who won't speak the truth about what's going on. And they're red-hot angry about this. They use language far, far coarser than I've used in this debate, and they direct it at the Labor Party and at politicians who don't tell the truth. So I'm not interested in having the Labor Party police my language in this. I'm not interested in talking nice about a plan to gouge three-quarters of a million dollars from veterans who need their health care. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I'll tell you what: veterans aren't interested in being tone-policed by a government that wants to strip away their rights for life-saving treatment. That's why they're saying: 'Support this bill.' They don't want a tone language from the Labor Party trying to hide and disguise their reasons for voting against this bill. Do you know what? If you want to stop the red-hot language, then stop attacking people with less power than you. </span>
                </p>
              </body>
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                  <name role="metadata">Sterle, Sen Glenn (The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT)</name>
                  <name.id>e68</name.id>
                  <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                  <party>ALP</party>
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                  <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
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                  <name role="metadata">Shoebridge, Sen David</name>
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                  <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
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                  <name role="metadata">Shoebridge, Sen David</name>
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                  <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
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                  <name role="metadata">Shoebridge, Sen David</name>
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                  <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
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                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Pocock, Sen David</name>
                <name.id>256136</name.id>
                <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
                <party>IND</party>
                <in.gov />
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              </talker>
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            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="256136" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator DAVID POCOCK</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Australian Capital Territory</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Independent ACT Whip</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">09:35</span>):  I rise in support of Senator Lambie's bill the Military Rehabilitation and Compensation Amendment (Veterans’ Healthcare Without Caps) Bill 2026. I want to start by thanking Minister Keogh for the roundtable last night where he heard directly from Canberra veterans about their concerns. He stayed until after 9 pm, answering every question. I appreciate all the Canberrans who came to really engage in good faith. They put questions to the minister and raised concerns, trying to interrogate some of the reasons behind this $5,000 threshold, as the government has started calling it, and really point out the consequences of that—the consequences for gold card holders, for widows and for their children who are wanting to access psychology and just how much stress this has placed on the veterans' community and the stress placed on them in the broader context of a DVA system that many of them feel grinds them down. Yes, we should acknowledge the Labor government's investment in DVA, but there is still a lot of frustration with the way the system is working. I think this is just another thing, and we have to congratulate the veteran's community on the way they have come together, campaigned, contacted elected representatives and run an outstanding campaign against this cap. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">While last night's roundtable was welcome, there were clearly very serious frustrations. At 9 pm last night, it seemed like it was full steam ahead with this $5,000 threshold. This morning they scrapped it, when they were faced with a Senate that said, 'Absolutely not. There is no pathway for you to do anything like this in this parliament, with this Senate.' This is a win for veterans. But it's a fight they should not have had to have had. They've got other issues on their minds. They didn't need yet another thing to say to the government and to the country: 'Listen, we've served you. Our understanding was that you'd look after us, and now you're placing yet another barrier, another thing, another piece of paper, another visit to the doctor for us to worry about.'</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Something that's been on my mind as this debate has unfolded is the question of whether it's a cap or a threshold. The government is at pains to say that this is not a cap, and how dare those in the opposition or on the crossbench refer to it as a cap. So my team went back to the budget papers where all of this started, and it says this:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Savings include: </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-SmallBullet" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      17.85pt;&#xA;        &#xA;          text-indent:-17.85pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-SmallBullet">$748.0 million over three years … from the introduction of an Annual Monetary Limit for veterans' allied health services</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I think most Australians would read a 'limit' as a cap. You don't read 'limit' as 'threshold'. Clearly, given the very swift backlash from veterans, this limit has now been called a threshold. The talking points have been updated, but it's very clear that it started as a hard cap. Terminology aside, I think the concerns from veterans have been really well articulated in the added burden this places on them. It's another hurdle to accessing critically important allied health care to help them be well.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I really welcome this move from the government. I wanted to thank Senator Lambie for her advocacy in this space. She has been a steadfast and tireless voice for veterans in this Senate over many, many years now. I think she has huge respect amongst the veterans community for her work. I also wanted to acknowledge Senator Collins, who had an inquiry before this place to look at this issue, Senator Shoebridge and his work on this, including at his outstanding work at estimates, Senators Hanson and Cadell—I know Senator Roberts has had a lot to say about this too. There's been a lot of good work done in this chamber to raise voices from our states and territories and to hold the executive to account, and I welcome it.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I say, as the Senate, we should be working more together to hold the executive to account, because that is what the Australian people expect of us. I'd also like to acknowledge those in the other place on the crossbench who've raised concerns about this, as well as Phil Thompson and Michael McCormack in the coalition. This is a victory for veterans. It's a victory for the Senate holding the executive to account, and I support this bill.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>7</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Roberts, Sen Malcolm</name>
                <name.id>266524</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>ON</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="266524" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator ROBERTS</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">09:41</span>):  The Military Rehabilitation and Compensation Amendment (Veterans' Healthcare Without Caps) Bill 2026 will ensure that eligible veterans can access treatment for accepted service related injuries and conditions based on their clinical needs rather than on the arbitrary monetary or numerical limits that this uncaring Labor government was trying to introduce. The Senate amended the government's statute update bill last week, yet, in the House, the government deferred it. That was a big middle finger to vets, to serving ADF and to all Australians, in fact.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The budget cuts that drove this were short-term budget cuts because of Labor's waste. They cut veterans services and other services around the country, and they increased tax, because Labor's waste is driving high expenditure, high spending. The people pay—always the people pay—directly or indirectly. As other senators have mentioned this morning, we are winning. The vets are winning. Thank you for your strong advocacy to the veterans. I also thank Senator Lambie for this bill and thank all senators who support it and who are supporting this campaign from the vets. Thank you. As Senator Pocock said, it is amazing what can be done when we take a united stand.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The Labor policy driving this unfortunate situation arose out of the recent Labor budget designed to steal from and punish Australians. This bill establishes that an entitlement to treatment must not be subject to a predetermined and arbitrary limit on the cost of treatment, pitched at $5,000, being the total amount that may be spent during a particular period, or the number of times a treatment may be accessed. In David Farley's seat, where he is representing the seat of Farrer in southern New South Wales, and across Queensland—we have some very large electorates. Vets have to travel for treatment, and the travel eats up this $5,000 limit.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Early in my listening to serving and retired Australian Defence Force personnel and veterans during the last 10 years, I became deeply concerned about veterans not being adequately cared for under the previous government and under this government. I raised my concerns with the proposed cap at Senate estimates hearings, where it became apparent that Labor's proposition was not thought through and had raised the levels of anxiety of returned veterans or the already vulnerable to those thoughtless threats to their receipt of treatment.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Veterans already have a very high suicide rate that should not be exacerbated under threats of withdrawal of support. I was told that the bureaucrats in the Department of Veterans' Affairs had developed no objective criteria to determine if funding beyond the proposed cap might be approved—none—nor had they determined what processes may be required to extend the cap nor had they developed what evidence they may need to establish a case for increased funding. No appeals processes had been created—none. That's why there was a limit. It's just an arbitrary slashing of care. It was not clear why this attack on veterans was devised, and I believe penny pinching was a contributing factor. It is, seemingly, the major driver. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">If issues of fraud or financial abuse are of concern, there already exist measures that can be taken to address these problems. I was told that, historically, approximately 10 per cent of veterans entitled to treatment have needed allied health care that would cost more than the $5,000 limit. This is thousands of veterans. Why punish these vets, making them jump through hoops in order to receive the care that they genuinely need and that their practitioners tell them they genuinely need? How disgusting it is to try to treat vets on the cheap with such disrespect. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Many very distraught veterans and representative groups have approached me directly, seeking support to oppose the proposed cuts in support. I do support this bill, and I am pleased to see that the crossbench is pulling together on this worthy remedial exercise. How the Labor government could even come up with this punitive idea in the face of the recommendations of the Royal Commission into Defence and Veteran Suicide is beyond comprehension. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Our veterans represent the best of our Australian community. The vast and overwhelming majority of veterans are honest Aussies who have genuine need for clinically identified health problems. The government is happy to send them off to fight for our freedoms, yet treats them so poorly and with disrespect—sometimes with disdain and neglect—on their return. Many of these veterans come home vulnerable and in need of nurturing care and support. They do not need to face barriers and hurdles, nor should they have to fight to receive the necessary support and treatment. This does not need to be done on the cheap or, worse, with deceit. Many of our vets have given their all and deserve to be treated well, not in a system based on minimum or even token support, with massive red tape which they have to cut, hack and slash their way through. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">This bill removes potential barriers, financial and administrative, to veterans' access to allied health care, supporting improved health and wellbeing of our veterans, and I must say it's well written. I call on my colleagues in the Senate and those members in the other house to support this bill as a matter of respect for those veterans deserving of the support this bill will ensure. Veterans and ADF members have served 28 million Australians and have provided us with security. We need to thank veterans with sincere care.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>8</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Collins, Sen Jessica</name>
                <name.id>297964</name.id>
                <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="297964" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator COLLINS</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Deputy Opposition Whip in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">09:48</span>):  I rise to support this incredible and timely bill, the Military Rehabilitation and Compensation Amendment (Veterans' Healthcare Without Caps) Bill 2026, from Senator Lambie and I want to thank Senator Lambie for bringing this to the floor of the chamber. Isn't it absolutely wonderful to see a united Senate—a united parliament—on this? The coalition, the crossbench and the Greens are all getting behind this, and it's because we all spoke to the veteran community. We heard them and we knew their concerns about this allied health cap and what it would do to the veteran community. We didn't have to hear those concerns, though, because we knew what this would do. Yet the government made the coalition for veterans come down to Canberra and beg for them to lift this cap. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I am pleased to hear that the cap has been removed today, but the damage has been done. Quite frankly, the damage has been done. People have been hurt. We heard from the coalition for veterans last week that people's mental health has absolutely plummeted from the damaging effects of this allied health cap. So I stand with this bill—no caps, not ever. It is a very important protection for our veterans, the people who put their hand up to serve this nation, whose families have sacrificed so much and whose health has been sacrificed so much. The very least we can do is provide them the support when they need it most. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">United we stand against a Labor government that has, frankly, shown a pattern of contempt this year for the defence community and the veterans community. First, it started on 14 February when the defence minister handed down a shocking defence estate audit report with a predetermined outcome to sell off the foundational estate. It came as a complete surprise to the defence community and the veterans community. That was a big hit on their mental health. It still is and continues to be, and, if they follow through with this, it will have a devastating impact not just on the veterans community but on the serving community, the cadets, the reserves and all the communities connected with it. And yet they charge on. They charge on with this. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Then they brought to the other house a bill on the Defence Honours and Awards Tribunal which would prevent our veterans from appealing decisions on awards and medals. That received such backlash from the people that we consulted with through an inquiry. Of the 63 submissions to that particular inquiry, 62 said: 'What on earth is this? Why are you doing this? Why are you doing this to the veteran community and the defence community? We say "no".' Only one submission said that this is a great idea, and guess who submitted that? The Department of Defence. And so, because of the pressure that we put on and the backlash from the public, the Labor government removed that bill. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Then, of course, they went ahead and tried to remove the funding for Corporal Cameron Baird's parents. He was a recipient of the Victoria Cross, and his parents go around the country sharing his legacy and his story of valour and honour, particularly with school children. They tried to take that away that funding. Shame. And now, of course, we've had this battle over the allied health cap. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">And so you can see over time the pattern of contempt that the Labor government has shown towards our defence community and our veteran community, and you can see here today that united we stand against that. The message that we have for the defence and veterans community is that we stand with you and we will not let this happen. It shows that you simply cannot trust this Labor government. You cannot trust them. They've gone and backflipped again. They got it wrong. They did the consultations, typical Labor, after making a decision. They go and see the damage that they do, and then they backflip. We will keep the pressure on. When they come forward with these bad ideas, we will keep the pressure on. So, again, I thank Senator Lambie for this bill. Senator Lambie is doing great things for the veteran community. She's a fighter. She will always be a fighter. There are lot of people that count on Senator Lambie. There's a lot of people that count on the rest of us too. But thank you for taking the charge on this. I want to thank the rest of the Senate chamber, too, for standing with Senator Lambie on this important bill. I commend the bill to the Senate. </span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>9</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">McKim, Sen Nick</name>
                <name.id>JKM</name.id>
                <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
                <party>AG</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="JKM" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator McKIM</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Tasmania</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Australian Greens Whip</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">09:54</span>):  I move:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">That the question be now put.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                    </a>  The question is that the second reading be agreed to.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal"> </span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
            <interjection>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>9</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                  <name.id>112096</name.id>
                  <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                  <party>ALP</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </interjection>
          </speech>
          <division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [09:59]<br />(The President—Senator Lines)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>34</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                  <name>Antic, A.</name>
                  <name>Bell, S.</name>
                  <name>Bleyer, V. E.</name>
                  <name>Cadell, R. P.</name>
                  <name>Canavan, M. J.</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                  <name>Collins, J.</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                  <name>Gatenby, C. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Hanson, P. L.</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                  <name>Henderson, S. M.</name>
                  <name>Hodgins-May, S.</name>
                  <name>Hume, J.</name>
                  <name>Kovacic, M.</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J.</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J. A.</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B. G.</name>
                  <name>McKim, N. J.</name>
                  <name>Nampijinpa Price, J. S.</name>
                  <name>Paterson, J. W.</name>
                  <name>Payman, F.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M. I.</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A.</name>
                  <name>Shoebridge, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Smith, D. A.</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Thorpe, L. A.</name>
                  <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                  <name>Whitten, T.</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>19</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Ananda-Rajah, M.</name>
                  <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                  <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A. D.</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                  <name>Darmanin, L.</name>
                  <name>Dolega, J. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Dowling, R.</name>
                  <name>Ghosh, V.</name>
                  <name>Lines, S.</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                  <name>Polley, H.</name>
                  <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                  <name>Stewart, J. N. A.</name>
                  <name>Walker, C.</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                  <name>Watt, M. P.</name>
                  <name>Whiteaker, E.</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>11</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Blyth, L.</name>
                  <name>Cox, D.</name>
                  <name>Bragg, A. J.</name>
                  <name>Tyrrell, T. M.</name>
                  <name>Brockman, W. E.</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Cash, M. C.</name>
                  <name>Wong, P.</name>
                  <name>Chandler, C.</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D. E.</name>
                  <name>Liddle, K. J.</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M.</name>
                  <name>McDonald, S. E.</name>
                  <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                  <name>McLachlan, A. L.</name>
                  <name>Grogan, K.</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, M. A.</name>
                  <name>Mulholland, C.</name>
                  <name>Scarr, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Gallagher, K. R.</name>
                  <name>Sharma, D. N.</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                </names>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to.<br />Bill read a second time.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division>
        </subdebate.2>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>Third Reading</title>
            <page.no>9</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Third Reading</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>9</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="112096" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">The PRESIDENT</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Time">10:02</span>):  As no committee stage is required, I call Senator Lambie.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>9</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lambie, Sen Jacqui</name>
                <name.id>250026</name.id>
                <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
                <party>JLN</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="250026" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator LAMBIE</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Tasmania</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">10:03</span>):  I move:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">That this bill be now read a third time.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                    </a>  The question is that the bill be now read a third time.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal"> </span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
            <interjection>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>10</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                  <name.id>112096</name.id>
                  <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                  <party>ALP</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </interjection>
          </speech>
          <division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [10:08]<br />(The President—Senator Lines)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>33</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                  <name>Antic, A.</name>
                  <name>Bell, S.</name>
                  <name>Bleyer, V. E.</name>
                  <name>Cadell, R. P.</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                  <name>Collins, J.</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                  <name>Gatenby, C. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Hanson, P. L.</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                  <name>Henderson, S. M.</name>
                  <name>Hodgins-May, S.</name>
                  <name>Hume, J.</name>
                  <name>Kovacic, M.</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J.</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J. A.</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B. G.</name>
                  <name>McKim, N. J.</name>
                  <name>Nampijinpa Price, J. S.</name>
                  <name>Paterson, J. W.</name>
                  <name>Payman, F.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M. I.</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A.</name>
                  <name>Shoebridge, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Smith, D. A.</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Thorpe, L. A.</name>
                  <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                  <name>Whitten, T.</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>19</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                  <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A. D.</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                  <name>Darmanin, L.</name>
                  <name>Dolega, J. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Dowling, R.</name>
                  <name>Ghosh, V.</name>
                  <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Polley, H.</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                  <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                  <name>Stewart, J. N. A.</name>
                  <name>Walker, C.</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                  <name>Whiteaker, E.</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>11</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Blyth, L.</name>
                  <name>Cox, D.</name>
                  <name>Bragg, A. J.</name>
                  <name>Tyrrell, T. M.</name>
                  <name>Brockman, W. E.</name>
                  <name>Lines, S.</name>
                  <name>Canavan, M. J.</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M.</name>
                  <name>Cash, M. C.</name>
                  <name>Wong, P.</name>
                  <name>Chandler, C.</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D. E.</name>
                  <name>Liddle, K. J.</name>
                  <name>Watt, M. P.</name>
                  <name>McDonald, S. E.</name>
                  <name>Ananda-Rajah, M.</name>
                  <name>McLachlan, A. L.</name>
                  <name>Grogan, K.</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, M. A.</name>
                  <name>Mulholland, C.</name>
                  <name>Scarr, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Gallagher, K. R.</name>
                </names>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to.<br />Bill read a third time.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division>
        </subdebate.2>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>10</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <debate.text>
        <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
          <p class="HPS-Debate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Debate">DOCUMENTS</span>
          </p>
        </body>
      </debate.text>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Aged Care</title>
          <page.no>10</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Aged Care</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>10</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Order for the Production of Documents</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>10</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">McAllister, Sen Jenny</name>
                <name.id>121628</name.id>
                <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="121628" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator McALLISTER</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for the National Disability Insurance Scheme</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">10:11</span>):  The Albanese Labor government is getting on with the job of delivering once-in-a-generation reform for high-quality, world-class aged-care services for older Australians. We're investing $47 billion in aged care this year, and that is the largest amount in the nation's history. The 2026-27 budget makes one thing very clear: the work of fixing aged care did not end with the passage of the Aged Care Act. With $3.7 billion to keep building and strengthening our aged-care system in the 2026-27 budget, our government is continuing to invest, continuing to listen to older Australians and continuing to listen to the people who care for them. Generational reform is not a single moment; it's a long-term project. Our government is getting on with it. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The subject matter of the order demands particular care. I'm advised that complying with this order requires searching for, extracting and cross-referencing waiting list data against mortality data across the financial year. That is not a small undertaking. It requires care in identification and it requires care in checking the resulting figures before they are put before this chamber. In responding to order for the production of documents No. 633, the minister advised the Senate that this data is still undergoing validation. The government has a responsibility to ensure that figures of this kind are accurate before they are released. I wish to assure the Senate that work to comply with this order is continuing and a response will be provided to the Senate. These are matters of real consequence for older Australians and their families, and they deserve to be treated with appropriate care</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>11</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Ruston, Sen Anne</name>
                <name.id>243273</name.id>
                <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="243273" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator RUSTON</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">10:12</span>):  I move:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">That the Senate take note of the statement.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I stand to condemn the government for their failure to properly comply with the order for the production of documents in relation to a very serious issue: how many older Australians have died waiting for the care that this government has assessed that they need. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Older Australians were promised care. In 2022, the then opposition leader, now Prime Minister, Anthony Albanese, said:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">… we will look after our older Australians. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">No one held back. No one left behind.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">But nothing could be further from the truth. This Prime Minister has overseen a policy agenda that has not only held back and left older Australians behind but has actively sought to pit grandparents against grandchildren. Of all the policy failings of those opposite, the most abhorrent has to be their absolute disregard and disrespect for older Australians. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I want to share some words from Lynne Meehan. Lynne has bravely become a public advocate for change in the home care system, sharing her dad's story in the hope that other families do not have to go through what they have. Recently, she spoke to the Senate inquiry into Support at Home. About her dad, John, she said:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">He wasn't just a number; he was a respected member of society, a taxpayer all his working life, a husband, a father, a great grandfather and a great great-grandfather who was dearly loved.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Lynne had convinced her parents to engage with the aged-care system in 2023 so that, when the time came, help would only be a phone call away. Instead, when John needed that care in 2025, he was assessed as needing the second highest level of support at home, but only after serious advocacy by Lynne, who spent countless hours and days on the phone and writing emails. But, even after all that, Lynne was told that her father would have to wait 10 months for that care. Days after his funeral, the family received a congratulatory letter about his funding coming through. That was after John had passed away while waiting for that care. Lynne said, 'For Mum, who'll be 90 in October, the remnant of all of this is a profound sense of loss, both for dad and for the help they could have received.' She feels let down, as though she's been kicked in the guts by the government of Australia. John is so much more than a number. So are Lynne, her mum and her family.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Their family is not alone. The waiting list for Support at Home has nearly quadrupled under this government, from fewer than 50,000 when the coalition left government to closer to 200,000 today. For too many, that wait never ends. That is a number which this government is trying to keep secret and it's why we are here today. How can we fix something if the architects are unwilling to face the reality of the current state of the system?</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">On 9 September, the Senate ordered the Minister for Aged Care and Seniors to produce one thing: the number of older Australians who, like John, died waiting for a Support at Home care package. But the minister refused, saying that that search was too expansive. The Minister representing the Minister for Aged Care and Seniors, Senator McAllister, has just said that, basically, it's too much trouble to actually find out how many people have died while on the waiting list.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">As I said, the minister has staff who are paid to do the work. Older Australians, on the other hand, rely on their families to overcome the roadblocks and hurdles this government has placed between them and the care they need. That is why the Senate ordered the Minister representing the Minister for Aged Care and Seniors to come into this chamber today and to explain that failure. An explanation is not compliance. It's an admission that the government is shamelessly hiding from Australian families how many of their loved ones died waiting for the care this government itself had assessed that they needed.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">This explanation should not be taken as good enough, and the order should be complied with in full without delay. It has previously been complied with much, much earlier than the middle of September. The only conclusion that anybody listening could reach on the failure of this minister to provide that number is that he doesn't want Australians to know how many people have died waiting for the care they were assessed as needing by this government.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>12</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Allman-Payne, Sen Penny</name>
                <name.id>298839</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>AG</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="298839" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator ALLMAN-PAYNE</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">10:18</span>):  I rise to also speak to the government's failure to provide the Senate with the information requested on how many people are dying waiting for their aged-care packages. The minister has said that this number can't be provided to the Senate today because it is a big responsibility for them to get that right. If only the government and the minister took as seriously the responsibility to get aged care for older Australians right.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Right now, over 200,000 people are waiting for aged-care support. The royal commission said clearly and unequivocally that aged care in this country needed to stop being rationed and for people to get the care they need at the time they need it. Previous data has told us that around 5,000 people a year are dying while waiting for care. In a rich country, that is shameful. We can only surmise that the reason the minister has not provided us with the latest statistics is that they are not improving. It's not a complicated statistic. If you're on the waitlist and you die—how many has that happened to? We don't need to know why people died or how they died. We're simply asking how many people died before they got the package that they were assessed as being entitled to receive. The public has a right to know that information, the Senate has a right to know that information, and it should have been provided before now, yet the minister has come back and said, 'You all need to wait.'</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">It would seem that waiting is par for the course with this minister because waiting is exactly what older Australians are being asked to do week after week, month after month—for some people, it's up to a year—to get the care that they need. This is such a false economy. As the former inspector-general of aged care, Ms Siegel-Brown, said, for every person who waits, we're paying more in hospital admissions and early entry into residential aged care. The government should be doing everything they can to address this.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">You can't tell us that this is a problem that wasn't foreseeable. We've known for 30 years that we were going to have an older or an ageing population. In the Senate today, the government has put amendments to their Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Aged Care Commissioner Bill to give people a pathway for review for their failed integrated assessment tool. This is just another example of the government and the minister not actually understanding what the problems are. The integrated assessment tool is broken. We've heard expert evidence that it is not assessing people appropriately. There is no human override for that assessment, so we have assessors sitting in front of people knowing that the assessment is incorrect and not being able to do anything about that. The minister's solution, put into the House today, is not to rework the integrated assessment tool—not to actually fix the problem—but to give people another option for a review.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Hundreds and thousands of people are already waiting for reviews, and that is further delaying their access to the support that they need. The government's fix to the problem with the IAT is to put more people into a system where they need to get a review—so yet more waiting to get the care that they need. No doubt, more people will die waiting for the care that they need, but will this chamber know how many people that is? No, because the minister is too cowardly to give the information to the Senate so the public knows exactly how many people in this country are dying waiting for care.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Question agreed to.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
        </subdebate.2>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>BILLS</title>
        <page.no>12</page.no>
        <type>BILLS</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <debate.text>
        <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
          <p class="HPS-Debate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Debate">BILLS</span>
          </p>
        </body>
      </debate.text>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Defence Force Discipline Amendment (RCDVS Implementation and Related Measures No. 1) Bill 2026</title>
          <page.no>12</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <a href="r7464" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Defence Force Discipline Amendment (RCDVS Implementation and Related Measures No. 1) Bill 2026</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>12</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Second Reading</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Consideration resumed of the motion:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">That this bill be now read a second time.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>12</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Paterson, Sen James</name>
                <name.id>144138</name.id>
                <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="144138" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator PATERSON</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Victoria</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">10:23</span>):  I rise to speak on the Defence Force Discipline Amendment (RCDVS Implementation and Related Measures No. 1) Bill. The opposition will be supporting this bill. We do so because we recognise both the importance of the reforms before the Senate and the obligation that we all owe to our men and women who have served and who continue to serve the ADF.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The Australian way of life that we enjoy today has been secured through the enduring service, courage and sacrifice of those who've worn our nation's uniform. Throughout times of armed conflict, peacekeeping operations and natural disasters, members of the ADF have served with professionalism, distinction and dedication. They have protected our nation, supported communities in times of crisis, contributed to international stability and upheld Australia's responsibilities both at home and abroad.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">In return, we have a solemn responsibility to ensure that those who serve are treated with dignity, respect and fairness. We have an obligation to support them not only while they are in uniform but throughout their lives after service. We have a responsibility to care for them—for both the physical and their psychological wounds that can arise during their military service. That obligation extends to ensuring that our systems, our institutions and our laws operate in a way that protects serving members and veterans and responds appropriately when deficiencies are identified. This bill seeks to do that.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">It implements a number of recommendations arising from the Royal Commission into Defence and Veteran Suicide. That royal commission was established by the former coalition government in July 2021 after listening to calls from veterans, families, advocates and the broader community for a national inquiry into the systemic issues affecting current and former defence personnel. When the coalition established the royal commission, we did so because there could be no greater priority than understanding why too many Australian Defence Force personnel and veterans were taking their own lives and than identifying the reforms needed to prevent that tragedy.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The commission's work was extensive, and it was confronting. The final report confirmed what veterans, families and many within the ex-service community had been saying for years. It identified systemic shortcomings, it highlighted the need for greater accountability, and it made clear that meaningful reform is required. The coalition has consistently supported the implementation of agreed recommendations arising from the royal commission. At the last election, we committed to implementing the agreed response to the royal commission. We supported legislation to establish the Defence and Veterans' Services Commission, we've engaged extensively with veterans organisations and advocacy groups, and we remain firmly committed to addressing the unacceptably high rates of suicide among serving and former defence personnel. More than half a million Australians have served or are currently serving in the ADF. What is clear from the findings of the royal commission is that we must do better by those who defend our nation, our families and our way of life.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">This bill provides the framework to implement recommendations 18, 20, 23, 34 and 63 of the royal commission while also introducing broader reforms to modernise Australia's military justice and discipline systems. At its heart, the bill seeks to reduce harm and suicide risk for Defence members involved in military justice processes, improve fairness within those processes and align military disciplinary proceedings more closely with contemporary community expectations regarding accountability, transparency and procedural fairness. The coalition recognises the importance of each of these objectives.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Our military justice system plays a critical role in maintaining discipline, accountability and operational effectiveness within the ADF. Discipline is not an abstract concept within defence; it is fundamental to military capability. It supports command authority, it promotes cohesion within units, it underpins operational readiness, and it ensures confidence throughout the chain of command. When disciplinary matters are not resolved efficiently, fairly and transparently, serious consequences can follow. Delays can undermine morale, uncertainty can place unreasonable strain on personnel, confidence in the system can diminish and relationships within units can become strained.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">In some circumstances, unresolved disciplinary issues can affect the safety and wellbeing of defence members and the broader defence community. That is particularly true when allegations involve serious misconduct or conduct that affects operational environments. For those reasons, our military justice system must be fair, effective and timely. It must protect personnel while maintaining discipline, it must support confidence while ensuring accountability, and it must allow the ADF to remain capable, professional and mission ready.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The coalition has a long history of supporting reforms that strengthen military justice in Australia. Previous coalition governments introduced reforms to modernise the Defence Force Discipline Act, streamline disciplinary processes and strengthen responsiveness to cyberbullying, harassment and unacceptable behaviour within the ADF. We've consistently maintained that bullying, harassment and misconduct have no place within the ADF. We also recognise that military justice systems must evolve over time.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The challenge for legislators is ensuring that reforms improve accountability and fairness while preserving the operational effectiveness and integrity of defence institutions. The measures before the Senate seek to address that challenge. Schedule 1 of the bill directly implements recommendations 18, 20, 23 and 63 of the royal commission. Among other things, these provisions establish a more consistent framework for the suspension of defence members who are under investigation for serious civilian criminal offences. At present, a member may be suspended during investigations into service offences, yet suspension is generally unavailable where serious civilian offences are being investigated until formal charges are laid. The royal commission identified concerns in this area. The bill seeks to provide more consistent mechanisms across service, civilian and overseas investigations. The bill also strengthens consideration of victim impact in serious violent and sexual offence matters to ensure service tribunals can take account of the broader effects of offending when determining sentences. Importantly, schedule 1 also provides for serious service offences to be recorded on criminal records through disclosure to the Australian Criminal Intelligence Commission and removes outdated and stigmatising language from the Defence Force Discipline Act.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Schedule 2 implements recommendation 34 and introduces greater transparency within military justice proceedings. Under these reforms, convictions and sentencing decisions by superior tribunals must be accompanied by reasons. Sentencing responsibilities are modernised, court martial processes are updated, military justice administration is streamlined, and the role of judge advocates in legal decision-making is strengthened in a manner more consistent with contemporary legal practice.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Schedule 3 addresses mental health provisions within the military justice system. These reforms recognise that mental health conditions may affect an individual's capacity to participate in proceedings, even when they do not meet the threshold of legal incapacity. The bill introduces powers permitting adjournment or the dismissal of charges in certain circumstances involving mental impairment. It also establishes a framework for defence mental health tribunals to deal with situations where a member may be unfit to plead. The coalition supports the principle that military justice systems should be capable of responding appropriately and compassionately to mental health issues while maintaining procedural fairness and good order and discipline.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Schedule 4 seeks to reduce complexity and delays by streamlining summary disciplinary arrangements. The royal commission identified inefficiencies in the existing framework. The simplification of processes can contribute to a more efficient and responsive discipline system.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Schedule 5 contains 16 parts dealing with a range of other amendments. These include updating evidentiary rules, aligning the grounds for the termination of judicial officers, strengthening review processes, modernising the powers of investigating officers and introducing removal orders for intimate images. It also enables the provision of evidence by video link, provides for victim impact statements and allows for the extinguishment of historical homosexual service convictions that would not be offences today. These measures seek to improve the coherence of the system and align the Defence Force Discipline Act with contemporary Australian law and practice.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Schedule 5 also allows the minister for defence to issue guidelines to the Director of Military Prosecutions. This provision is modelled on section 8 of the Director of Public Prosecutions Act 1983, which provides the Attorney-General with the power to issue directions and guidelines to the Commonwealth Director of Public Prosecutions. This schedule also makes amendments to vest all statutory disciplinary powers in the CDF, rather than in the CDF and the service chiefs, allowing the CDF to delegate those powers to service chiefs and other ADF officers at or above the rank of commodore, brigadier or air commodore.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The remaining schedules establish transitional rule-making power to provide for the transition between the existing discipline system and the new legislative framework.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The coalition recognises the broader purpose of this legislation and the importance of progressing reforms that respond to the findings of the royal commission. They demand action, and the implementation of the royal commission's recommendations represents an important and overdue step towards addressing systemic shortcomings, strengthening accountability and improving outcomes for defence personnel and veterans.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The coalition will be proposing some amendments that we believe will improve the bill's implementation, including by enabling parliamentary oversight of the new powers of the minister for defence to direct the Director of Military Prosecutions. I'd like to recognise the diligent work by my colleague Senator Jess Collins during the committee process and in initiating these amendments.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">We will continue to scrutinise the implementation of these reforms closely. We'll engage constructively with stakeholders, we will monitor the operation of this legislation, and we will hold the government accountable for delivering the reforms to genuinely improve outcomes for those who serve. But, having considered the bill in its entirety, the coalition have determined that ADF members, veterans and the veteran community are best served by our supporting its passage.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Legislation alone will not solve every challenge identified by the royal commission. No single reform can. However, this bill represents an important contribution to the broader reform effort and provides a foundation upon which further improvements can be built. Our ADF personnel deserve a military justice system that is fair, transparent and effective. Our veterans deserve confidence that the lessons learned from the royal commission and the agreed recommendations will be acted upon. And the Australian people deserve assurance that those who serve our nation will receive the support, respect and protection that they've earned through their service and sacrifice for our country.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>14</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Shoebridge, Sen David</name>
                <name.id>169119</name.id>
                <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                <party>AG</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="169119" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator SHOEBRIDGE</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">10:34</span>):  I indicate at the start that the Greens will be supporting the Defence Force Discipline Amendment (RCDVS Implementation and Related Measures No. 1) Bill 2026. The reason we are is that it's one of those occasions where a government has actually had a royal commission, looked at the royal commission, taken the recommendations seriously and then tried in good faith to actually implement those recommendations. When you see that happen, it gives you a little bit of hope that, actually, politics can from time to time get it right.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">What are the key recommendations from the royal commission that are being implemented with this legislation? The first one is recommendation 18, 'Strengthen workplace protections during sexual misconduct investigations'. Enormous credit is owed to the royal commission, Commissioner Kaldas and the team, for the way in which they created a safe space for veterans, serving and retired, to come and tell the truth about what was happening. I've got to tell you, my office has heard from so many veterans, overwhelmingly women, who had appalling treatment inside Defence, including appalling sexual misconduct, with—I think we should just say it like it is—a boys club coming in and protecting the senior officers. That's the reality for far too many women inside Defence. Men behave badly and then an empowered boys club comes in and protects the perpetrators. The royal commission heard that, and they put it in nicer language than I did, but that's the truth of it. Recommendation 18 set out a number of key elements to protect women, overwhelmingly, in those situations who are survivors of sexual misconduct and who deserve to be protected and supported through the process. This bill, the Greens believe, goes a significant way to implementing recommendation 18, and we support it.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Recommendation 20 is 'Amend the legislation related to sentencing perpetrators of military sexual offences'. I think the community would have been horrified to see the way in which people inside Defence who have been accused and then, indeed, found guilty of instances of sexual misconduct keep the uniform. Sexual abuse of, normally, junior members of Defence have been found to be true, and then they keep the uniform. That has to end. There's got to be a position which says those two things don't coexist. You don't get to keep the uniform and the entitlements and the respect after you've been found guilty of sexual offences. It's got to end. That's what recommendation 20 says, and that's where this legislation finally takes the law.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Recommendation 23 is 'Record convictions of sexual offences in Australian Defence Force records and civilian criminal records'. It was remarkable—and again I credit the royal commission for doing the hard work—to find out that there could be records of convictions of sexual misconduct and other serious offences under the military defence system and those records are never matched and given to the state, territory or federal criminal justice systems. So, if somebody who might have been found guilty of a sexual offence inside the military then continues offending outside of the military, when they appear the first time in the criminal courts in the non-military system, it's as though they have a clean record and have never offended before. That's got to end too, and this legislation allows the information to be shared to make that happen.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Recommendation 63 is 'Reduce stigma and remove structural and cultural barriers to help seeking'. It's probably worthwhile reading the text of that recommendation:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The Australian Defence Force (ADF) should identify and remove cultural and structural barriers to help seeking and make a greater concerted effort to reduce stigma. This should include:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(a) the Australian Government should remove reference to the word 'malingering' at Section 38 of the Defence Force Discipline Act 1982 (Cth)</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(b) Defence should review all its policies and procedures and amend or remove those that are stigmatising</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(c) the ADF should develop a dedicated training program and a communications campaign to reduce stigma and promote help seeking.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Of all the structural things that you see, the idea that those who have been the subject of appalling treatment inside Defence and have had to have some time off are then getting charged with malingering under the Defence Force Act because of what people in positions of authority have done to them is just so offensive. The word is weaponised inside the Defence Force against people who are seeking help and against people who have been the victims of appalling treatment. It's about time that ended, and this legislation does end that. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The Greens do support this legislation because it amends those recommendations. Credit to the veterans who had the courage and the ability and the strength to go and tell the truth to the royal commission. Credit to the royal commission for listening, hearing and coming up with recommendations. And, in this case, I'm going to say credit to Minister Keogh for turning those words into legislative reforms. I hope we can pass this bill in a hurry.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>15</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Roberts, Sen Malcolm</name>
                <name.id>266524</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>ON</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="266524" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator ROBERTS</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">10:40</span>):  I support the Defence Force Discipline Amendment (RCDVS Implementation and Related Measures No. 1) Bill 2026. In doing so, though, I want to place on the record the words of someone who served this country admirably until he was subject to the abuse of discipline from the supposed leaders who are meant to protect our personnel. Daniel Dare served in the Royal Australian Air Force, and his words are so very meaningful. He's written a letter to me about Australian Defence Force discipline. It reads as follows.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Dear Senator Roberts,</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">I support reform of the Defence Force Discipline Act, but this bill must be treated as a beginning, not an end. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">My experience shows how readily military justice can be weaponised by senior officers, how fiercely the system resists scrutiny and how dangerous it becomes when a member is unwell or inconvenient. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">I joined the ADF at 17 under a 14-and-a-half year Initial Minimum Period of Service. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">I spent more than 11 years trying to become the officer the service said it wanted. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">I hoped for a lifelong career. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Eventually that hope became: "I just need to survive to the end." </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Service should not feel like a prison sentence administered by officers who hide poor judgement behind process. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">In March 2023, my Commanding Officer attempted to punish me over a message I did not write, send or know even existed.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">A defective fact-finding process proceeded without interviewing me.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">He sought to impose a 12-month formal warning and cancel my approved flying-instructor posting. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">It stopped only after I retained Cameron Niven of Soldier's legal Counsel. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">An ADF member should not need a civilian lawyer to stop a senior officer misusing command and exercising powers he did not properly have.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Yet Mr Niven is inundated by soldiers, sailors and airmen who say the system has been weaponised against them. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">In one incident reported to him, a RAAF commanding officer initiated a termination process against an airman who parked in the Commanding officer's space. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">That is petty authority armed with life-changing power.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Defence's own May 2026 Inspector General inquiry received 362 submissions. It found that weaponisation, while not widespread, "can and does occur at multiple" ADF levels; that rigid, inept or blind use of military justice can itself amount to weaponization; and that current fact finding is no longer fit for purpose. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">It recommended stronger sanctions for deliberate abuse, including increasing the maximum penalty for prejudicing ADF discipline from three months to 12 months. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Defence has now admitted the disease exists. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Parliament must ensure it is treated. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The episode with my CO broke my trust and pushed me beyond the point where I could safely continue serving. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">I sought an orderly solution: transfer to the reserves, repayment of any service debt and use of proper channels.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Instead, I met delay stonewalling, opacity and escalation. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Although entitled to seek medical discharge, I tried to remain available through the reserves should Australia face war or national emergency. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">I failed to present for duty on second April 2024 amid a documented medical concerns and prior maladministration. My crime was taking unapproved sick leave. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">My request for sick leave for that day was approved by the medical branch just days later, something I only found out through freedom of information. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Defence responded with that proportion, judgement or care. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Military and civilian police were sent to my home. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">A five-year arrest warrant was issued. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">An international pursuit used the ADF, AFP, DFAT, foreign agencies including the FBI and US Marshals. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Air Marshal Robert Chipman, now Vice-Chief of the Defence Force, oversaw and directed this persecution, assisted by Air Commodore Maria Brick. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Air Marshal Stephen Chappell continued it after becoming Chief of Air Force.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The pursuit failed, yet taxpayers continued funding a ten-day prosecution brought by Director of Military Prosecutions Air Commodore Ian Henderson.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">In my case, an officer presented as independent has behaved like another marionette of the hierarchy.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">This is irrational, emotional and incompetent—a pathetic display of institutional weakness, with senior officers saying yes to one another while taxpayers fund the consequences.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Yes-men do not win wars.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">They lose them.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Air Marshal Chipman withheld critical information that medical staff had extended my sick leave, albeit late, and prevented a request for my input into a medical classification review from reaching me.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">He sought to have my sick leave removed and denied me access to medical resources.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">I was an ADF member stranded overseas with serious mental-health concerns and no access to Defence care.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">More recently, I spent six weeks in hospital with acute mental-health issues.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Defence accused me of faking illness and sought an arrest warrant.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Will the senior officers responsible be reviewed?</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Almost certainly not.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">In the ADF's most senior officers cannot get the basics right in peacetime, why should Australians trust them in war?</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">I am increasingly less concerned about an enemy overseas than the enemy within: senior officers eroding the ADF from inside while protecting, rewarding and promoting their own.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Discipline is essential, but it must serve capability, fairness and good order.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The present system lets the hierarchy that mishandles the problem define it, control the record, escalate the response and declare its own conduct lawful.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">This is rot from the top.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Senior officers mistake command for entitlement, discipline for domination and institutional loyalty for loyalty to each other.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">They preach values downward and protect breaches upward.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">This directly damages recruitment and retention.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Experienced members leave after watching senior officers reward compliance theatre, careerism and polished briefings over courage, competence and moral judgement.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Young Australians see the same conduct and decide not to enlist.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Australia needs a lethal, trusted and sustainable force, not one that treats injured or disillusioned members as administrative waste.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Defence Force Discipline reform cannot be cosmetic.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">It must limit command discretion where liberty, reputation, medical vulnerability and civilian livelihood are at stake.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">It must require independent scrutiny before serious escalation involving health concerns or maladministration; strict proportionality for warrants and external agency involvement; enforceable disclosure of exculpatory medical and administrative information; and consequences for senior officers who misuse the system.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Power without consequences becomes culture.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">As an aside, there are so many meaningful and powerful statements in this letter. I'll continue with Daniel's words:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Culture without accountability becomes rot.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">I wrote to Minister Matt Keogh and Deputy Prime Minister Richard Marles seeking reasonable intervention.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Mr Keogh's reply did not engage with the substance.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Mr Marles did not reply, and Freedom of Information material shows his office chose to ignore the matter.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">When the hierarchy escalates and ministers look away, a member is left with lawyers, FOI requests, oversight complaints and public advocacy.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">This bill would empower the Defence Minister to issue directions and guidelines concerning the Director of Military Prosecutions.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">That power demands transparency, firm safeguards against political interference and scrutiny of any direction affecting prosecutorial independence.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Will ministers exercise moral courage or again protect the status quo?</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">My experience gives little cause for optimism.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The DFDA must not remain a managerial hammer that turns administrative failure into individual misconduct, allows senior officers to create harm and ignore warning signs, then punishes the member for breaking under pressure.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">A Defence Force that does this is weak and morally corrupt.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">What message reaches young Australians considering service?</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">"Join us.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">We will hang you out to dry, protect our own and damage your civilian future if you become inconvenient."</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Senior officers who permit that message to stand are sabotaging recruitment, retention and public trust.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">A simple reform is 360-degree reporting: hold officers accountable to those they lead, not merely those whose approval advances their careers.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">And, as an aside, again, this improves discipline. It doesn't take away authority from senior officers. Daniel continues:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Give subordinates a protected voice. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Promotion should require demonstrated competence and discipline, administration and complaint handling, as the IGADF itself recommends, and expose dysfunction concealed beneath polished reporting chains.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">I also hold grave concerns for Australia's strategic sovereignty if Defence and government cannot acknowledge these failures in peacetime.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Officers prioritise careers. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The major parties look away. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">I thank you, Senator Roberts, for listening not only to me but to others who have experienced institutional abuse, and for giving them a voice. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">One Nation was once dismissed as marginal; its importance is now clear. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Labor and the Liberals have failed Australians for too long. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Another urgent issue is the IMPS and ROSO system. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Members should not escape reasonable service obligations: training costs money. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">But outside war or national emergency, the Defence Regulation 2016 should prevent the ADF denying a transfer to the reserves where a member can repay the service debt.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Not every 17-year-old can safely complete an obligation lasting 14-and-a-half years. Treating volunteers as prisoners feeds abuse, increases harm and suicide risk, and drives away both serving members and potential recruits. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Despite my medical discharge in August 2025, Air Commodore Henderson is pursuing a ten-day Defence Force Magistrate trial against me at taxpayer expense, commencing 26 October at HMAS Moreton in Brisbane. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The trial is public. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">I invite Australians to attend and decide whether they are witnessing proportionate discipline or a personal vendetta prosecuted with public money. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">I ask you to support reform, but also to expose where this bill falls short. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">If it leaves the same incentives and unaccountable power intact, the same abuses will continue under cleaner language. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Service members deserve a system worthy of their sacrifices. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Taxpayers deserve a Defence Force that spends public money on capability, not vendettas, theatrics and institutional face-saving. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Yours sincerely, </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Daniel Dare</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I add: discipline, to be effective, must be based on truth, data and facts. It must be objective. It must be fair, proportionate and honest. How can a once-young man have his career crippled by military justice? How? That's the question. There's much more work that needs to be done with Defence, but we will be supporting this bill.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>18</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Collins, Sen Jessica</name>
                <name.id>297964</name.id>
                <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="297964" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator COLLINS</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Deputy Opposition Whip in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">10:53</span>):  I rise to speak on the Defence Force Discipline Amendment (RCDVS Implementation and Related Measures No. 1) Bill 2026. I state from the outset that the opposition will support this bill. I want to thank Senator Roberts for bringing those personal letters, personal stories, to the fore to remind us of why it is so important to support this bill today. The coalition recognise the importance of reform in this area. We took to the last election a promise, a commitment, to support reform and to support the recommendations of the royal commission into veteran suicide. We have here in this chamber, in this parliament, an obligation to support the men and women—and their families—who put their lives on the line, are committed to putting their lives on the line and make sacrifices and to do all we can to support them during their service and after their service. We have a solemn responsibility to treat them with dignity, respect and fairness, and this bill seeks to do that. After the harrowing time that the veteran and Defence community has had this year—the consistent slaps in the face—I want to thank the Labor government for finally bringing something to this chamber that everybody can get behind.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">This bill seeks to implement several recommendations from the Royal Commission into Defence and Veteran Suicide, which was established by the coalition in July of 2021. We established it because we wanted to understand why so many serving personnel and veteran personnel were, sadly, taking their own lives. We wanted to identify the reforms that would address that problem. The royal commission identified systemic shortcomings and a need for greater accountability, and it was clear that we needed meaningful reform. It was clear that we need to do better by those who defend our nation, our families and our way of life.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The core of this bill seeks to reduce harm and suicide risk for Defence members involved in military justice processes. Our military justice system has a critical role in maintaining discipline in the Defence Force. Critically, purposefully, it is separate from the civilian justice system. But, when disciplinary matters are not resolved efficiently, fairly or transparently, there can be very serious consequences for morale. There can be uncertainty in the system and strain on personnel, and confidence in the system can crash. Relationships within the units can become strained. This is what this bill is trying to address. The coalition supports the principle that the military justice system should be capable of responding appropriately and compassionately to mental health issues while also maintaining procedural fairness and good order and discipline. The royal commission identified inefficiencies in the existing framework, and there needs to be a simplification of the processes.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I want to foreshadow a couple of concerns that I have with the bill, noting that we do support it. I want to foreshadow that I will be submitting some amendments today in relation to schedule 5, which Senator Roberts just raised and which is about the extra powers for the Minister for Defence to direct the Director of Military Prosecutions in matters relating to military prosecutions. My concern is that there is not sufficient oversight, transparency or safeguards in that particular provision, which was not a recommendation of the royal commission, to ensure that the minister uses those powers fairly, judiciously and without political interference. So I foreshadow that I will be moving some amendments in relation to that particular schedule.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I also have concerns about the broadening of the definition of 'investigating officer' so that a civilian can be appointed to oversee investigations in the military justice system. My understanding is that that would be best placed just in relation to sexual offences—which the royal commission was, in large part, focused on.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I will be watching closely and maintaining scrutiny of how this government implements that particular schedule in this bill, because it is important to maintain separation between the civilian justice system and the military justice system. It was purposefully designed in that way. But, overall, we do recognise the importance of trying to modernise the military justice system and make it efficient, fair and compassionate to our serving members.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The coalition will continue to scrutinise the implementation of these reforms closely. We will engage constructively with the government and stakeholders—the defence community and the veteran community. We will monitor the operation of this legislation. The most important thing not just for the coalition but for everybody in this chamber and the other house is to make sure that we reform the system. We do not want to see one more death by suicide in our defence community or veteran community because the system works against them. That is our obligation here, and we will always stand by that. I commend the bill.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>19</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Blyth, Sen Leah</name>
                <name.id>315170</name.id>
                <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="315170" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator BLYTH</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">11:00</span>):  I rise to speak today on the Defence Force Discipline Amendment (RCDVS Implementation and Related Measures No. 1) Bill 2026 bill. As foreshadowed, the coalition is supporting this bill. The bill will amend the minister's power to issue guidelines and directions to the Director of Military Prosecutions and on the engagement of civilian contractors. It seeks to reduce the harm and suicide risk for members engaged in the military justice system, ensure fairness for Defence Force personnel involved in military justice proceedings and align military discipline proceedings with community expectations of the basic fairness and transparency found in the civilian justice system.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I rise today as the wife of a war veteran. My husband was deployed to Iraq. So I think these types of things are just so important. The coalition believe that we have a responsibility to care for the physical and mental wounds of our Defence Force personnel, of our veterans past and present and of future generations still to come.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">This bill will provide the necessary framework to implement recommendations 18, 20, 23, 34 and 63 of the royal commission. The royal commission was established by a former coalition government in 2021. The royal commission was established after the coalition listened to community calls for a national inquiry focusing on the systemic issues faced by Defence Force members and veterans that could result in suicide.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I will take the liberty here of mentioning that the coalition is very happy that the Labor government have walked back their $5,000 cap on allied health services this morning. That cap was going to have a huge impact on the mental health and wellbeing of veterans right across the country. The cap should never have been put in place in the first place. It is such a shame that so many veterans had to come here to Canberra to fight their own government for the care they deserved. Many of these veterans were injured in service to our country, and the least we as a nation can do is give them the care they need to heal from and live with those wounds that were inflicted upon them in service to us.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The coalition, in establishing the royal commission, stated that its aim was to shed light on the critical steps needed to reduce the heartbreaking cases of suicide. We said this because we have seen far too many of our brave men and women who serve, and have served, this nation with pride succumb to the battle with the invisible wounds of their service. In fulfilling this mandate, the royal commission identified serious issues that demand a considered and constructive response. It's clear from the findings that we must do better by those who defend us, our families and our very way of life. As parliamentarians, we have an obligation to our Defence Force and we have an obligation to our veteran community to ensure that issues identified by the royal commission are acknowledged and that the necessary action is taken. This is exactly what the coalition has been doing. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Last year, the coalition supported the legislation to establish the Defence and Veterans' Service Commission, which was recommendation 122 of the royal commission. In doing so, we listened to the serious concern raised by veteran advocates on Labor's last-minute legislation for the commission. We engaged with key advocacy groups to understand the impacts of Labor's approach, including the Families of Veterans Guild, the Australian Peacekeeper and Peacemaker Veterans' Association and the Australian Federation of Totally and Permanently Incapacitated Ex Servicemen and Women. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">At the last election, the coalition committed to implementing the agreed response to the royal commission, delivering better outcomes for men and women currently in the ADF and our veterans, and brought a comprehensive policy to the election. We remain committed to addressing the unacceptably high rates of suicide amongst our Defence Force and veteran communities. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">As stated, this bill amends the minister's power to issue guidelines and directions to the Director of Military Prosecutions. Our military justice system is the integral framework that underpins military discipline and command, and the coalition has a long history of actively reforming military discipline in Australia. The former coalition government introduced reforms to modernise the Defence Force Discipline Act, streamlining the handling of minor disciplinary matters and strengthening Defence's response to cyberbullying, sending a clear message that bullying, harassment and unacceptable behaviour have no place anywhere within the Australian Defence Force. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Any change to our military justice system must strengthen accountability, protect personnel and the defence community and support the ongoing integrity of the Defence Force. The coalition understands that delays in resolving violations of military discipline adversely affect the morale, the welfare and the operational effectiveness of our defence forces. Prolonged uncertainty undermines confidence and places strain on serving personnel that can affect unit cohesion, trust and command authority. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Unresolved disciplinary matters may also have implications for the safety and wellbeing of defence personnel and the defence community. This is especially so when misconduct is serious in nature or impacts operational environments. A fair, effective and timely military system is essential in protecting personnel, maintaining discipline and ensuring the Defence Force remains capable, professional and, importantly, mission ready. Our service men and women deserve nothing less. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The minister has stated that this bill represents one of the most significant reforms to Australia's military discipline framework in decades, and that's why the coalition referred this legislation to the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Legislation Committee for inquiry. While the coalition supports this bill in general, we have raised concerns with parts of this legislation. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Firstly, recommendation 18 of the royal commission advocated for strengthening of workplace protections during sexual misconduct investigations. The legislation before us goes beyond that recommendation. The government has not adequately demonstrated why this bill goes beyond the royal commission recommendation. This is why the coalition senators on the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Legislation Committee recommended the Australian government better justify its deviation from the royal commission. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Secondly, we are concerned that key elements in this bill, such as the access to members' medical records, will be dealt with in regulations. Implementing the Defence Mental Health Tribunal framework through primary legislation would provide a more rigorous review in the context of members' rights to privacy, agency over their own judicial process and confidence that they will be fairly treated. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">While the coalition continues to hold concerns about several provisions contained within this bill, we recognise the broader objective it seeks to achieve and the importance of advancing reforms that respond to the findings of the royal commission. After considering the bill as a whole, the coalition has determined that our veterans and Defence Force personnel are best served by supporting its passage. Implementing the recommendations from the royal commission is a critical and long-overdue step towards addressing systemic shortcomings, strengthening public confidence and improving outcomes for those who rely on these services. While legislation alone will not resolve every challenge, this bill represents an important contribution to the reform process and provides a foundation upon which further improvements can be built. There is still significant work ahead to ensure these reforms are implemented effectively, efficiently and in a manner that delivers tangible benefits on the ground. The coalition will continue to engage constructively with stakeholders, monitor the operation of these reforms and hold the government to account for their delivery. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The men and women of the Defence Force serve our nation with honour and bravery, with more than half a million Australians having served or currently serving. Indeed, the Australian way of life that we enjoy today has been secured through the enduring service, courage and sacrifice of the men and women in uniform who have defended our nation. Through armed conflict, natural disaster and peacekeeping missions, members of the ADF have consistently served with professionalism and distinction. In doing so, our ADF personnel have provided vital support to communities in need, contributed to international security and upheld Australia's responsibilities at home and abroad. Accordingly, in recognition of their service and sacrifice, it is incumbent upon us to ensure that Defence Force members and veterans are treated with respect and dignity and receive appropriate support. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">This bill implements five of the 122 recommendations from the Royal Commission into Defence and Veteran Suicide. One of the recommendations not made by this royal commission was to establish a $5,000 cap on veterans' allied health care. This point is often lost on those opposite, who tried to put this cap in place to save $748 million in their budget. Because Labor couldn't control their own budget and their own spending, they came after our hardworking service personnel and our veterans who served this nation with dignity and with bravery. Labor came after them for a tax cap. As I said earlier, the coalition is happy to see that Labor have walked back that cap, but these brave men and women should never have had to come to Canberra. They should never have had to fight their own government to receive the care and the services that they need.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">How we treat those who serve and protect us is the mark of us as a nation, and it was disgusting that this Labor government put a cap on what services and health care they could receive after serving Australia, keeping us all safe and protecting our very way of life. I was pleased to stand with those veterans as they came here and brought their fight to Canberra, a fight that they never should have had. As I've said, the coalition will be supporting this bill. We do raise those concerns, but we don't want to stand in the way of making sure that veterans have the services that they need.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
        </subdebate.2>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>21</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <debate.text>
        <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
          <p class="HPS-Debate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Debate">COMMITTEES</span>
          </p>
        </body>
      </debate.text>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Artificial Intelligence Joint Select Committee</title>
          <page.no>21</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <a href="24203" type="Committee">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Artificial Intelligence Joint Select Committee</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>Membership</title>
            <page.no>21</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Membership</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>21</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="112096" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">The PRESIDENT</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Time">11:14</span>):  Yesterday, I informed the Senate that I had received nominations from Senator David Pocock and Senator Shoebridge seeking appointment to a single crossbench position on the Joint Select Committee on Artificial Intelligence. In accordance with standing orders, a ballot will be held to determine which of the two senators is to be appointed to the committee. Before proceeding to a ballot, the bells will be rung for four minutes.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span style="font-style:italic;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-style:italic;">The bells having been rung—</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                    </a>  The Senate will now proceed to a ballot. Ballot papers will be distributed to all senators, who are requested to write the name of the candidate they wish to vote for. The candidates are Senator David Pocock and Senator Shoebridge. Senator Sheldon?</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="168275" type="MemberInterjecting">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Sheldon:</span>
                    </a>  I wonder whether both the candidates would like to give a short speech about why we should be voting for them.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                    </a>  Candidates are able to give a short speech if they wish to do so. Senator Ruston?</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="243273" type="MemberInterjecting">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Ruston:</span>
                    </a>  I just wonder what the length of time will be.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                    </a>  Minister Gallagher has suggested a minute, which is what we use for formal motions. As that is the agreement of the Senate, we will do one-minute statements. I remind the Senate that Senator Shoebridge and Senator David Pocock need to be heard in silence.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
            <interjection>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>21</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                  <name.id>112096</name.id>
                  <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                  <party>ALP</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </interjection>
            <interjection>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>21</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Sheldon, Sen Tony</name>
                  <name.id>168275</name.id>
                  <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                  <party>ALP</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </interjection>
            <interjection>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>21</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                  <name.id>112096</name.id>
                  <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                  <party>ALP</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </interjection>
            <interjection>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>21</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Ruston, Sen Anne</name>
                  <name.id>243273</name.id>
                  <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
                  <party>LP</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </interjection>
            <interjection>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>21</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                  <name.id>112096</name.id>
                  <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                  <party>ALP</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </interjection>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>21</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Shoebridge, Sen David</name>
                <name.id>169119</name.id>
                <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                <party>AG</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="169119" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator SHOEBRIDGE</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">11:21</span>):  Thanks to the chamber. It's a bloody outrage that the majors in this place are not letting there be two representatives from the crossbench. I know that there's probably a committee of secretaries who are desperately keen not to have more crossbenchers actually asking the questions. We can see a stitch-up when you do it. We know what you want to do. You don't want people actually testing what happens in this committee.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I've got to tell you this. Joint select committees are places where hope goes to die, so you actually do me a great favour in not sending me down onto this select committee. We've all been on them, right? Some drones and deadheads from the lower house come in and bore you to death. If anyone thinks a joint select committee on AI is how we're going to get ahead of the tidal wave of disaster that's coming, wake up and smell the roses! But, mainly, the crossbench can see a stitch-up, and we're not going to fight amongst ourselves.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="00AOU" type="MemberInterjecting">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Wong:</span>
                    </a>  I'm calling a point of order on the slurs about the members in the other place. That should be withdrawn under the standing orders.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span class="HPS-GeneralIInterjecting">Honourable senators interjecting</span>—</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                    </a>  I'm waiting for silence. I did ask for these one-minute statements to be heard in silence.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span class="HPS-GeneralIInterjecting">Honourable senators interjecting</span>—</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                    </a>  Order!</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="I0U" type="MemberInterjecting">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Hanson-Young:</span>
                    </a>  Now you're calling order?</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                    </a>  Order! My goodness!</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="I0U" type="MemberInterjecting">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Hanson-Young:</span>
                    </a>  Go back and watch what just happened!</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                    </a>  Order! Senator Hanson-Young, you will withdraw that comment.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="I0U" type="MemberInterjecting">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Hanson-Young:</span>
                    </a>  I will withdraw.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                    </a>  Thank you. Senator Shoebridge, because there was so much noise in the chamber, I did not hear the comments that you may have made in relation to the other house, but, if you did make comments which were unparliamentary, I invite you to withdraw them.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="169119" type="MemberInterjecting">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Shoebridge:</span>
                    </a>  I withdraw them.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                    </a>  Thank you very much, Senator Shoebridge. Senator David Pocock.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
            <interjection>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>21</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Wong, Sen Penny</name>
                  <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
                  <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
                  <party>ALP</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </interjection>
            <interjection>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>21</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                  <name.id>112096</name.id>
                  <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                  <party>ALP</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </interjection>
            <interjection>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>21</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                  <name.id>112096</name.id>
                  <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                  <party>ALP</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </interjection>
            <interjection>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>21</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Hanson-Young, Sen Sarah</name>
                  <name.id>I0U</name.id>
                  <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
                  <party>AG</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </interjection>
            <interjection>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>21</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                  <name.id>112096</name.id>
                  <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                  <party>ALP</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </interjection>
            <interjection>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>21</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Hanson-Young, Sen Sarah</name>
                  <name.id>I0U</name.id>
                  <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
                  <party>AG</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </interjection>
            <interjection>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>21</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                  <name.id>112096</name.id>
                  <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                  <party>ALP</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </interjection>
            <interjection>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>21</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Hanson-Young, Sen Sarah</name>
                  <name.id>I0U</name.id>
                  <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
                  <party>AG</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </interjection>
            <interjection>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>22</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                  <name.id>112096</name.id>
                  <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                  <party>ALP</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </interjection>
            <interjection>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>22</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Shoebridge, Sen David</name>
                  <name.id>169119</name.id>
                  <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                  <party>AG</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </interjection>
            <interjection>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>22</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                  <name.id>112096</name.id>
                  <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                  <party>ALP</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </interjection>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>22</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Pocock, Sen David</name>
                <name.id>256136</name.id>
                <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
                <party>IND</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="256136" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator DAVID POCOCK</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Australian Capital Territory</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Independent ACT Whip</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">11:23</span>):  I thank the Senate for this opportunity. One of the criticisms of the AI industry is that it still remains overwhelmingly white and male, so the irony is not lost on me that the Senate is provided with an opportunity to vote between two white dudes named David. Senator David Shoebridge does outstanding work at estimates and on committees, so I think, whatever the Senate decides, there will be a crossbencher engaging in good faith on this issue, which is one of the huge challenges we face. We're facing an exponential technology that is clearly difficult to deal with for legislators and difficult to deal with as a society. I think either David will make a good contribution to this community.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                    </a>  Ballot papers will now be distributed and collected once they're filled in. I invite Senators McKim and Lambie to act as scrutineers.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span style="font-style:italic;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-style:italic;">A ballot having been taken—</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                    </a>  The result of the ballot is as follows: Senator David Pocock, 49 votes; and Senator Shoebridge, 12 votes. There were two invalid votes. Senator David Pocock is therefore elected. Congratulations, Senator Pocock.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
            <interjection>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>22</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                  <name.id>112096</name.id>
                  <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                  <party>ALP</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </interjection>
            <interjection>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>22</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                  <name.id>112096</name.id>
                  <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                  <party>ALP</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </interjection>
          </speech>
        </subdebate.2>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>NOTICES</title>
        <page.no>22</page.no>
        <type>NOTICES</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <debate.text>
        <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
          <p class="HPS-Debate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Debate">NOTICES</span>
          </p>
        </body>
      </debate.text>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Presentation</title>
          <page.no>22</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Presentation</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Normal">
                <span style="font-weight:bold;">Senator Payman</span> to move on the next day of sitting:</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Small">That—</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Small">(a) the Senate notes that the government response to the Education and Employment References Committee report on wage theft was due on 25 September 2026 and has not yet been tabled; and</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Small">(b) there be laid on the table by the Minister representing the Minister for Employment and Workplace Relations, by no later than 5 pm on Monday, 2 November 2026, the government response to the report. </span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Normal">
                <span style="font-weight:bold;">Senator McKenzie </span>to move on the next day of sitting:</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Small">That—</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Small">(a) the Senate notes that:</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
              <span class="HPS-Small">(i) on Wednesday, 9 September 2026, the Senate agreed to order for the production of documents no. 679, relating to projects as part of the Major and Local Community Infrastructure Program, requiring the Minister representing the Minister for Regional Development, Local Government and Territories to comply by midday on Wednesday, 16 September 2026, and</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
              <span class="HPS-Small">(ii) the order has not been complied with; and</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Small">(b) the Senate requires the Minister representing the Minister for Regional Development, Local Government and Territories to attend the Senate on Wednesday, 14 October 2026, immediately before government business is called on, to provide an explanation, of no more than 5 minutes, of the failure to comply with the order, and that:</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
              <span class="HPS-Small">(i) any senator may move to take note of the explanation, and</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
              <span class="HPS-Small">(ii) any such motion may be debated for no longer than 30 minutes and shall have precedence over all other business until determined, and senators may speak to the motion for not more than 5 minutes each. </span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Normal">
                <span style="font-weight:bold;">Senator McKenzie </span>to move on the next day of sitting:</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Small">That—</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Small">(a) the Senate notes that:</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
              <span class="HPS-Small">(i) on Wednesday, 9 September 2026, the Senate agreed to order for the production of documents no. 678, relating to projects as part of the Major and Local Community Infrastructure Program, requiring the Minister representing the Prime Minister to comply by midday on Wednesday, 16 September 2026, and</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
              <span class="HPS-Small">(ii) the order has not been complied with; and</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Small">(b) the Senate requires the Minister representing the Prime Minister to attend the Senate on Tuesday, 13 October 2026, immediately before government business is called on, to provide an explanation, of no more than 5 minutes, of the failure to comply with the order, and that:</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
              <span class="HPS-Small">(i) any senator may move to take note of the explanation, and</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
              <span class="HPS-Small">(ii) any such motion may be debated for no longer than 30 minutes and shall have precedence over all other business until determined, and senators may speak to the motion for not more than 5 minutes each. </span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>23</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <debate.text>
        <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
          <p class="HPS-Debate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Debate">COMMITTEES</span>
          </p>
        </body>
      </debate.text>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Selection of Bills Committee</title>
          <page.no>23</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <a href="54" type="Committee">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Selection of Bills Committee</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>Report</title>
            <page.no>23</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Report</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>23</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Sheldon, Sen Tony</name>
                <name.id>168275</name.id>
                <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="168275" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator SHELDON</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Chief Government Whip in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">11:35</span>):  I present the 12th report for 2026 of the Selection of Bills Committee. I seek leave to have the report incorporated in <span style="font-style:italic;">Hansard</span>.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Leave granted.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span style="font-style:italic;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-style:italic;">The report read as follows—</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="text-align:left;direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;font-style:italic;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">Selection of Bills Committee</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="text-align:left;direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;font-style:italic;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">REPORT NO. 12 OF 2026</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-style:italic;">17 September 2026</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="text-align:left;direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">MEMBERS OF THE COMMITTEE</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Senator Tony Sheldon (Government Whip, Chair)</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Senator Maria Kovacic (Opposition Whip)</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Senator Sean Bell (One Nation Whip)</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Senator Nick McKim (Australian Greens Whip)</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Senator Ralph Babet</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Senator Ross Cadell (The Nationals Whip)</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Senator the Hon. Anthony Chisholm</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Senator Jessica Collins</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Senator the Hon. Katy Gallagher</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Senator Jacqui Lambie</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Senator Kerrynne Liddle</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Senator Fatima Payman</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Senator David Pocock</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Senator Lidia Thorpe</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Secretary: Tim Bryant 02 6277 3020</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">SELECTION OF BILLS COMMITTEE</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">REPORT NO. 12 OF 2026</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">1. The committee met in private session on Wednesday, 16 September 2026 at 7.08 pm.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">2. The committee recommends that—</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(a) the Aged Care Legislation Amendment (Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Aged Care Commissioner and Other Measures) Bill 2026 be <span style="font-weight:bold;font-style:italic;">referred immediately</span> to the Community Affairs Legislation Committee for inquiry and report by 9 October 2026 (see appendix 1 for statements of reasons for referral), </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(b) contingent upon introduction in the House of Representatives, the <span style="font-weight:bold;font-style:italic;">provisions</span> of the Child Support and Family Assistance Legislation Amendment (Ending Financial Abuse in the Child Support Scheme No. 1) Bill 2026 be <span style="font-weight:bold;font-style:italic;">referred immediately</span> to the Community Affairs Legislation Committee for inquiry and report by 12 November 2026,</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(c) the <span style="font-weight:bold;font-style:italic;">provisions </span>of the Customs and Other Legislation Amendment (Illicit Tobacco Enforcement Modernisation and Other Measures) Bill 2026 be <span style="font-weight:bold;font-style:italic;">referred immediately</span> to the Legal and Constitutional Affairs Legislation Committee for inquiry and report by 8 October 2026, and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(d) the <span style="font-weight:bold;font-style:italic;">provisions</span> of the Private Health Insurance (National Joint Replacement Register Levy) Amendment Bill 2026 be <span style="font-weight:bold;font-style:italic;">referred immediately</span> to the Community Affairs Legislation Committee for inquiry and report by 16 October 2026.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">3. The committee recommends that the following bills <span style="font-weight:bold;font-style:italic;">not</span> be referred to a committee:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-SmallBullet" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      70.35pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-SmallBullet">National Student Ombudsman Levy Bill 2026</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-SmallBullet" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      70.35pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-SmallBullet">Tertiary Education Quality and Standards Agency Amendment (National Student Ombudsman Levy) Bill 2026 4. The committee deferred consideration of the following bills to its next meeting:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-SmallBullet" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      70.35pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-SmallBullet">A New Tax System (Family Assistance) Amendment (No Jab No Pay Repeal) Bill 2025</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-SmallBullet" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      70.35pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-SmallBullet">Anti-Discrimination Legislation Amendment (Sexual Orientation, Gender Identity and Sex Characteristics Discrimination Commissioner) Bill 2026</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-SmallBullet" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      70.35pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-SmallBullet">Broadcasting Services Amendment (Audio Description) Bill 2019</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-SmallBullet" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      70.35pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-SmallBullet">Broadcasting Services Amendment (Register of Media Interests) Bill 2026</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-SmallBullet" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      70.35pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-SmallBullet">Census and Statistics Amendment (Parliamentary Oversight of the Census) Bill 2026</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-SmallBullet" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      70.35pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-SmallBullet">Commission of Inquiry into Antisemitism at Australian Universities Bill 2024</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-SmallBullet" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      70.35pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-SmallBullet">Commonwealth Electoral Amendment (Banning Dirty Donations) Bill 2026</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-SmallBullet" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      70.35pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-SmallBullet">Competition and Consumer Amendment (Divestiture Powers) Bill 2024</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-SmallBullet" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      70.35pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-SmallBullet">Constitution Alteration (Right to Free Speech) 2025</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-SmallBullet" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      70.35pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-SmallBullet">Copyright Legislation Amendment (Fair Pay for Radio Play) Bill 2023</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-SmallBullet" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      70.35pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-SmallBullet">Crimes Amendment (Repeal Mandatory Minimum Sentences) Bill 2025</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-SmallBullet" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      70.35pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-SmallBullet">Criminal Code Amendment (Equal Access to Voluntary Assisted Dying) Bill 2026</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-SmallBullet" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      70.35pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-SmallBullet">Customs Legislation Amendment (Commercial Greyhound Export and Import Prohibition) Bill 2021</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-SmallBullet" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      70.35pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-SmallBullet">Digital ID Repeal Bill 2024</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-SmallBullet" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      70.35pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-SmallBullet">Diplomatic Appointments (Selection Process) Bill 2026</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-SmallBullet" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      70.35pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-SmallBullet">Electoral Legislation Amendment (Electoral Communications) Bill 2025 (No. 2)</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-SmallBullet" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      70.35pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-SmallBullet">Electoral Legislation Amendment (Fair Territory Representation) Bill 2024</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-SmallBullet" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      70.35pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-SmallBullet">Electoral Legislation Amendment (Fairer Contracts and Grants) Bill 2023</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-SmallBullet" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      70.35pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-SmallBullet">Electoral Legislation Amendment (Lowering the Voting Age) Bill 2023</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-SmallBullet" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      70.35pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-SmallBullet">Environment and Other Legislation Amendment (Fast Tracking Coal, Gas and Oil Projects) Bill 2026</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-SmallBullet" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      70.35pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-SmallBullet">Environment and Other Legislation Amendment (Low Emissions Future) Bill 2025</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-SmallBullet" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      70.35pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-SmallBullet">Environment and Other Legislation Amendment (Removing Nuclear Energy Prohibitions) Bill 2026</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-SmallBullet" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      70.35pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-SmallBullet">Fair Work Amendment (Paid Reproductive Health Leave and Flexible Work Arrangements) Bill 2025</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-SmallBullet" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      70.35pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-SmallBullet">Higher Education Support Amendment (End Dirty University Partnerships) Bill 2025</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-SmallBullet" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      70.35pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-SmallBullet">Human Rights (Parliamentary Scrutiny) Amendment (Consideration of UNDRIP) Bill 2023</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-SmallBullet" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      70.35pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-SmallBullet">Lobbying (Improving Government Honesty and Trust) Bill 2025</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-SmallBullet" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      70.35pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-SmallBullet">Migration Amendment (Overseas Organ Transplant Disclosure) Bill 2026</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-SmallBullet" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      70.35pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-SmallBullet">Military Rehabilitation and Compensation Amendment (Protecting Veterans' Healthcare) Bill 2026</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-SmallBullet" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      70.35pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-SmallBullet">Military Rehabilitation and Compensation Amendment (Veterans' Healthcare Without Caps) Bill 2026</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-SmallBullet" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      70.35pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-SmallBullet">National Housing and Homelessness Plan Bill 2024</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-SmallBullet" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      70.35pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-SmallBullet">Offshore Petroleum and Greenhouse Gas Storage Amendment (Domestic Reserve) Bill 2026</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-SmallBullet" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      70.35pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-SmallBullet">Online Safety Amendment (Broadening Adult Cyber Abuse Protections) Bill 2026</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-SmallBullet" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      70.35pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-SmallBullet">Online Safety Amendment (Fix Our Feeds) Bill 2026</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-SmallBullet" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      70.35pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-SmallBullet">Online Safety and Other Legislation Amendment (My Face, My Rights) Bill 2025</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-SmallBullet" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      70.35pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-SmallBullet">Plebiscite (Future Migration Level) Bill 2018</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-SmallBullet" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      70.35pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-SmallBullet">Prime Agricultural Land Protection Bill 2026 (No. 2)</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-SmallBullet" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      70.35pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-SmallBullet">Repeal Net Zero Bill 2025 [No. 2]</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-SmallBullet" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      70.35pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-SmallBullet">Right to Protest Bill 2025</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-SmallBullet" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      70.35pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-SmallBullet">Social Media Minimum Age Repeal Bill 2025</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-SmallBullet" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      70.35pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-SmallBullet">Social Security and Other Legislation Amendment (Responding to Robodebt) Bill 2025 [No. 2]</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-SmallBullet" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      70.35pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-SmallBullet">Sport Legislation Amendment (World Anti-Doping Code Implementation) Bill 2026</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-SmallBullet" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      70.35pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-SmallBullet">Superannuation Guarantee (Administration) Amendment (Frontline Emergency Service Workers) Bill 2025</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-SmallBullet" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      70.35pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-SmallBullet">Tax Laws Amendment (Incentivising Food Donations to Charitable Organisations) Bill 2026</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-SmallBullet" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      70.35pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-SmallBullet">Treasury Laws Amendment (Removing the Widows and Spouses Tax) Bill 2026</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-SmallBullet" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      70.35pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-SmallBullet">Unlocking Supply of Family Homes Bill 2025</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-SmallBullet" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      70.35pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-SmallBullet">Workplace Relations Legislation Amendment (Clearing the Fair Work Commission Backlog) Bill 2026 5. The committee considered the following bills but could not reach agreement:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-SmallBullet" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      70.35pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-SmallBullet">Red Lines Package Omnibus Bill 2026 [No. 2]</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-SmallBullet" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      70.35pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-SmallBullet">Wearable Recording Devices (Import Control) Bill 2026</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(Tony Sheldon)</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">Chair</span> 17 September 2026</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="168275" type="MemberContinuation">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator SHELDON:</span>
                    </a>  I move:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">That the report be adopted.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
            <continue>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>24</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Sheldon, Sen Tony</name>
                  <name.id>168275</name.id>
                  <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                  <party>ALP</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </continue>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>25</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Gallagher, Sen Katy</name>
                <name.id>ING</name.id>
                <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="ING" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator GALLAGHER</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Australian Capital Territory</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for Finance, Minister for the Public Service, </span><span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for Women, Minister for Government Services and Manager of Government Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">11:35</span>):  I move the following amendment:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">At the end of the motion, add "and the Red Lines Package Omnibus Bill 2026 [No. 2] not be referred to a committee".</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>25</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">McKim, Sen Nick</name>
                <name.id>JKM</name.id>
                <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
                <party>AG</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="JKM" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator McKIM</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Tasmania</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Australian Greens Whip</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">11:35</span>):  I move as amendments to the amendment just moved:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">At the end of the motion, add: </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">"and, in respect of:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(a) the Red Lines Package Omnibus Bill 2026 [No. 2], the bill be referred immediately to the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Legislation Committee for inquiry and report by 16 November 2026; and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(b) the Wearable Recording Devices (Import Control) Bill 2026, the bill be deferred to the committee's next meeting".</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>25</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Shoebridge, Sen David</name>
                <name.id>169119</name.id>
                <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                <party>AG</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="169119" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator SHOEBRIDGE</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">11:36</span>):  We can see what's happened here on this Red Lines Package. It appears the Labor Party has cut a deal with the coalition to prevent the community from even making submissions on the Red Lines Package. The Red Lines Package has come from an extraordinary coalition of civil society groups: lawyers, human rights advocates, the Palestinian community and people of good faith and goodwill from across the country who have been appalled to think that Australian law is so weak when it comes to a genocide. They cannot believe that our government continues to allow weapons parts to go to Israel to create a genocide in Gaza. They cannot believe that we continue to allow—or Labor continues to allow—the illegal trade in products from settlements based in occupied Palestine. They cannot believe that our laws are so weak that there's basically a political veto on whether or not prohibitions against supporting a genocide are actually enforced.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I just want to give an enormous vote of thanks to all of those people from right across the country who have come together for the Red Lines Package and to the senators who co-sponsored this legislation, Senator Payman, Senator Pocock and Senator Faruqi. This Red Lines Package is an example of the community moving when this parliament refuses to, and now we're watching Labor say that they won't even permit an inquiry on it. They won't allow Australians to make submissions on four pieces of legislation that come together to actually put some decency in our laws and have our laws respect international law.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">There are millions of Australians who thought that the Labor Party stood for something. Now, after five years of government, they've watched the sorts of statements that the foreign minister has kept making, saying that, when it comes to Israel and Palestine, Australia would work with like-minded nations. Like-minded nations are now putting through laws like this red lines bill in their countries, saying that they will have total prohibition on trade with illegal settlements in occupied Palestine and an arms embargo on sending weapons into a genocide. Those like-minded nations—the UK, Canada, Ireland, Spain and France—have all moved, and now we get some new line from the Labor government about why they won't move. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">We know why Labor is refusing to support the Red Lines Package. It's because Washington won't let them. It's because they are completely under the spell of Donald Trump and his team over there in the United States, and they say, 'You dare not take any action to actually put in place any red lines for the state of Israel.' It's not just in relation to weapons going to Israel; it's in relation to weapons going to the United Arab Emirates, which are being fed into the appalling civil war in Sudan and the appalling conflict in Yemen. We say, 'No, put some red lines here,' but instead Labor is doing what they're doing on migration, doing what they're doing across the board—Labor is reaching out to work with the hard right, to work with the coalition and One Nation, to prevent this even going to an inquiry. That's a disgrace. The more that the community sees the Labor Party, the more they see them for what they are—so willing to reach across the aisle with the right and the hard right to punch down on migrants and to not take action on a genocide. This is just another case.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="263418" type="MemberInterjecting">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Duniam:</span>
                    </a>  I ask that the Greens amendment be separated out into (a) and (b).</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
            <interjection>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>25</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Duniam, Sen Jonathon</name>
                  <name.id>263418</name.id>
                  <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
                  <party>LP</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </interjection>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>25</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Faruqi, Sen Mehreen</name>
                <name.id>250362</name.id>
                <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                <party>AG</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="250362" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator FARUQI</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Deputy Leader of the Australian Greens</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">11:40</span>):  The Labor Party are cowards, and they are hypocrites. They talk no end of rules based order and upholding international law. They talk about human rights till the cows come home. When there is a community sponsored legislation here, they won't even allow it to go to an inquiry so it can be examined so that Australia's complicity in Israel's genocide on Gaza can be shown. There are more than 80,000 Palestinians who have been killed in the last three years by Israel. More than 22,000 children have been killed, and the blood is on the hands of the Labor Party. That is what they are trying to hide. No-one out there in the community is fooled. They all know that Labor is complicit in this genocide. They still export weapons and weapons parts. They have taken no action to stop the genocide. Even one of our own Australian aid workers has been killed. They have done nothing. Journalists have been killed. Healthcare workers have been killed. All are breaches of international law and all war crimes, but you don't want to do anything, and you want to hide behind not even having an inquiry. You try and put a veil on what you have done.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">There was a time when the people in this country had some hope in the Labor Party. I mean, heck, there was a time where I even had some glimmers of hope in the Labor Party, but I think that time has long gone. There is no glimmer of hope in this Labor Party. They have no integrity. They have no morality. They are just hopeless, gutless cowards. That's who you are, and the community knows this. There was a time that I thought with the Greens could hopefully push Labor to be better, but you cannot be better. I have come to the conclusion that you all need to be kicked out. You need to be replaced by people who have some guts, who have some morality and who can give the people of this country some joy and some hope. That's not you or you, either.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>26</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Pocock, Sen David</name>
                <name.id>256136</name.id>
                <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
                <party>IND</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="256136" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator DAVID POCOCK</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Australian Capital Territory</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Independent ACT Whip</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">11:42</span>):  The red lines package that was introduced by crossbenchers comes out of civil society. It comes from Australians who want our parliament to say that we are going to make a very firm commitment in domestic law to actually uphold the commitments we make to the international community. When there is a plausible case of crimes against humanity, of genocide, we will act here, and we will actually ensure that we are not party to those crimes and that we are not enabling them in any way. To me, it seems like a very sensible package of reforms. There's nothing radical in this proposal. We've signed up to all of these things as a country. We've signed international treaties.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I fear that as a species and as a civilisation, we're not learning the lessons of the past. We saw, after the great wars, the world come together and set up the United Nations and sign treaties, international agreements, that every member state would ensure that it is doing what it can to prevent genocide, to prevent crimes against humanity. And that requires us, as a participating member—as a middle power, which we hear so much about from the government—to actually step up and do that and to say we're going to hold ourselves to that standard that we signed up to, to that standard that we would probably expect of other nations.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I think it's a great tragedy that, when a bill is put forward in good faith—as I said, this should not be a radical proposition; these are all things we've signed up to as a country—the major parties won't even allow it to proceed to an inquiry; won't even allow scrutiny of that bill; won't allow Australians to submit their views, whatever they may be, to a Senate inquiry; won't allow academics and experts to submit; and won't allow for the bill to, potentially, be amended or debated in this place. On behalf of the many thousands of Canberrans I've heard from about this issue, I want to put on the record their concerns that Australia is not doing enough.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">One of my heroes, Archbishop Desmond Tutu, talked about how being neutral in the face of injustice is choosing the side of the oppressor. As a country, we need to face up to the fact that we need to hold ourselves to a higher and more consistent standard. It shouldn't matter where these crimes are being perpetrated, where these wars are being waged or whether they involve allies or not. We should be stepping up. Here we are at the reference of bills, and the major parties do not want scrutiny of a bill that simply enables the parliament to uphold international obligations we've signed up to.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>26</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Allman-Payne, Sen Penny</name>
                <name.id>298839</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>AG</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="298839" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator ALLMAN-PAYNE</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">11:46</span>):  A common refrain from the government in this place when the Greens ask questions about the genocide that's going on in Gaza and ask questions about Australia's commitment to international law is that we are 'pathetic' and that we're just playing political stunts. Yet here we are in the chamber today, bringing the voices of the community into this place, asking the Senate to listen to the voices of the community and giving it an opportunity to engage with four bills that have come to this place from the community through the inquiry process—Professor Gillian Triggs and former High Court Justice Michael Kirby are the sorts of people who have been involved in this community project to ensure that our government and our parliament uphold their obligations under international law.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">We hear regularly from the Minister for Foreign Affairs, the Prime Minister and the government that Australia is committed to its obligations under international law. Yet, when the community puts legislation in front of them to ensure that we can follow through on those obligations, the response from the government and the coalition is: 'We don't want to hear you. There's nothing to see here.' What are you so afraid of? If you were that confident that we were, in fact, as a country, upholding our obligations under international law, there would be nothing to fear. You'd be very happy to have the community making submissions. You'd be very happy to hear evidence from people like Professor Triggs and former Justice Kirby. Yet it's clear that you are very worried and afraid of what they're going to say, or, alternatively, that you're just cowards.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">What it tells us is that you are so out of touch with the community. So don't come in here and lecture us anymore about being 'pathetic' or just running political stunts when what we do in this place is bring the voice of the community here.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                    </a>  The opposition have asked that (a) and (b) of the Greens amendment to Minister Gallagher's amendment to the Selection of Bills Committee report be split. The question is that part (a) of Senator McKim's amendment agreed to.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal"> </span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
            <interjection>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>26</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                  <name.id>112096</name.id>
                  <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                  <party>ALP</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </interjection>
          </speech>
          <division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [11:54]<br />(The President—Senator Lines)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>12</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                  <name>Bleyer, V. E.</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                  <name>Hodgins-May, S.</name>
                  <name>McKim, N. J. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Payman, F.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                  <name>Shoebridge, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>28</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Ananda-Rajah, M.</name>
                  <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                  <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A. D.</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                  <name>Darmanin, L.</name>
                  <name>Dolega, J.</name>
                  <name>Dowling, R.</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                  <name>Gallagher, K. R.</name>
                  <name>Gatenby, C.</name>
                  <name>Ghosh, V.</name>
                  <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                  <name>Kovacic, M.</name>
                  <name>Lines, S.</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M.</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, M. A.</name>
                  <name>Polley, H.</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A.</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A. V. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                  <name>Stewart, J. N. A.</name>
                  <name>Walker, C.</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                  <name>Whiteaker, E.</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names />
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>27</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="112096" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">The PRESIDENT</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Time">11:57</span>):  The question now is that part (b) of Senator McKim's amendment be agreed to.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Question agreed to.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                    </a>  The question now is that the amendment moved by Minister Gallagher, as amended, to the motion that the Selection of Bills Committee report be adopted be agreed to.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Question agreed to.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Original question, as amended, agreed to.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
            <interjection>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>27</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                  <name.id>112096</name.id>
                  <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                  <party>ALP</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </interjection>
          </speech>
        </subdebate.2>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>BUSINESS</title>
        <page.no>27</page.no>
        <type>BUSINESS</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <debate.text>
        <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
          <p class="HPS-Debate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Debate">BUSINESS</span>
          </p>
        </body>
      </debate.text>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Rearrangement</title>
          <page.no>27</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Rearrangement</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>27</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Gallagher, Sen Katy</name>
              <name.id>ING</name.id>
              <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="ING" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator GALLAGHER</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Australian Capital Territory</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for Finance, Minister for the Public Service, Minister for Women, Minister for Government Services and Manager of Government Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">11:58</span>):  I move:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">That general business notice of motion No. 757 be considered during general business today.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Question agreed to.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>NOTICES</title>
        <page.no>27</page.no>
        <type>NOTICES</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <debate.text>
        <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
          <p class="HPS-Debate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Debate">NOTICES</span>
          </p>
        </body>
      </debate.text>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Postponement</title>
          <page.no>27</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Postponement</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Normal">
                <span style="font-weight:bold;">The Clerk:</span>  Postponement notifications have been lodged as follows:</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Small">Business of the Senate notice of motion no. 1 (Senator Payman), till the next day of sitting.</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Small">General business notice of motion no. 550 (Senator McKim), till the next day of sitting.</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>27</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
              <name.id>112096</name.id>
              <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">The PRESIDENT</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Time">11:58</span>):  If there is no objection, the business is postponed.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>27</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <debate.text>
        <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
          <p class="HPS-Debate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Debate">COMMITTEES</span>
          </p>
        </body>
      </debate.text>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Environment and Communications References Committee</title>
          <page.no>27</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <a href="34" type="Committee">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Environment and Communications References Committee</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>Reference</title>
            <page.no>27</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Reference</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>27</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Kovacic, Sen Maria</name>
                <name.id>306168</name.id>
                <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="306168" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator KOVACIC</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">11:59</span>):  At the request of Senator Bragg, I move:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">That the following matter be referred to the Environment and Communications References Committee for inquiry and report by 26 March 2027: </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The impacts of, and Commonwealth policy responses to, coastal erosion in Australia, with particular reference to:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(a) the scale and rate of coastal erosion across Australia and the adequacy of current national coastal hazard mapping, monitoring and data-sharing arrangements;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(b) the environmental impacts of coastal erosion, including the loss of dunes, wetlands and coastal habitat and impacts on biodiversity, and the role of natural and nature based mitigation measures in reducing erosion risk;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(c) the economic and financial impact of coastal erosion, including impacts on individuals and regions, insurance liabilities and costs, regional Australia, housing supply and prices, industry sectors, such as on tourism and agriculture, ports and other infrastructure and overall productivity;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(d) the social and community impacts of coastal erosion, including the psychological toll on affected residents, including in regional and remote communities;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(e) the adequacy of existing policy responses at the Commonwealth level, including the relevant data and evidence base, national disaster and related risk management frameworks, environmental impact and biodiversity frameworks, and regional and industry policy aspects, and community engagement and consultation approaches;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(f) potential additional policy responses at the Commonwealth level, and how they would interact with existing efforts at the state and territory, as well as local government, level; and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(g) any other related matters.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                    </a>  The question is that business of the Senate No. 2 standing in the name of Senator Bragg be agreed to.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal"> </span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
            <interjection>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>28</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                  <name.id>112096</name.id>
                  <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                  <party>ALP</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </interjection>
          </speech>
          <division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [12:03]<br />(The President—Senator Lines) </p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>23</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Antic, A.</name>
                  <name>Babet, R. D.</name>
                  <name>Bell, S.</name>
                  <name>Blyth, L.</name>
                  <name>Bragg, A. J.</name>
                  <name>Cadell, R. P.</name>
                  <name>Canavan, M. J.</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                  <name>Collins, J.</name>
                  <name>Gatenby, C.</name>
                  <name>Henderson, S. M.</name>
                  <name>Kovacic, M. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J.</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J. A.</name>
                  <name>McLachlan, A. L.</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, M. A.</name>
                  <name>Payman, F.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M. I.</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A.</name>
                  <name>Sharma, D. N.</name>
                  <name>Smith, D. A.</name>
                  <name>Whitten, T.</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>32</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                  <name>Ananda-Rajah, M.</name>
                  <name>Bleyer, V. E.</name>
                  <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A. D.</name>
                  <name>Darmanin, L.</name>
                  <name>Dolega, J.</name>
                  <name>Dowling, R.</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                  <name>Gallagher, K. R.</name>
                  <name>Ghosh, V.</name>
                  <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                  <name>Hodgins-May, S.</name>
                  <name>Lines, S.</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M.</name>
                  <name>McKim, N. J.</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                  <name>Polley, H.</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A. V. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Shoebridge, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                  <name>Stewart, J. N. A.</name>
                  <name>Thorpe, L. A.</name>
                  <name>Walker, C.</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                  <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                  <name>Whiteaker, E.</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>9</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Brockman, W. E.</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                  <name>Cash, M. C.</name>
                  <name>Wong, P.</name>
                  <name>Chandler, C.</name>
                  <name>Watt, M. P.</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D. E.</name>
                  <name>Hume, J.</name>
                  <name>Grogan, K.</name>
                  <name>Liddle, K. J.</name>
                  <name>Mulholland, C.</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B. G.</name>
                  <name>Tyrrell, T. M.</name>
                  <name>Nampijinpa Price, J. S.</name>
                  <name>Cox, D.</name>
                  <name>Scarr, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                </names>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division>
        </subdebate.2>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade References Committee</title>
          <page.no>29</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <a href="42" type="Committee">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade References Committee</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>Reference</title>
            <page.no>29</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Reference</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>29</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Kovacic, Sen Maria</name>
                <name.id>306168</name.id>
                <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="306168" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator KOVACIC</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">12:06</span>):  I seek leave to amend general business notice of motion No. 3 standing in the name of Senator Collins.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Leave granted.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="306168" type="MemberContinuation">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator KOVACIC:</span>
                    </a>  I move the motion as amended:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">That the following matter be referred to the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade References Committee for inquiry and report by 8 March 2027: </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The use and impact of monetary, expenditure based and numerical restrictions on Department of Veterans' Affairs-funded health treatment, with particular reference to:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(b) the use of monetary limits, expenditure thresholds, numerical treatment limits, review points, additional approval requirements, co-contributions or other restrictions affecting access to treatment;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(c) the consequences of such restrictions for continuity of care, clinical outcomes and veterans with complex, chronic or multiple service-related conditions;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(d) the particular impact on veterans and health service providers in regional, rural and remote Australia;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(e) the adequacy of existing statutory protections and options for strengthening legislative protections against monetary and numerical restrictions on veterans' health treatment;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(f) the financial, clinical and administrative implications of restricting, removing or legislatively prohibiting monetary and numerical limits on veterans' health treatment;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(g) consultation undertaken with veterans, ex-service organisations, health practitioners and other affected stakeholders; and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(h) any related matters.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                    </a>  The question is that business of the Senate No. 3 standing in the name of Senator Collins as amended be agreed to.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal"> </span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
            <continue>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>29</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Kovacic, Sen Maria</name>
                  <name.id>306168</name.id>
                  <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                  <party>LP</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </continue>
            <interjection>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>29</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                  <name.id>112096</name.id>
                  <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                  <party>ALP</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </interjection>
          </speech>
          <division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [12:08]<br />(The President—Senator Lines) </p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>34</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                  <name>Antic, A.</name>
                  <name>Babet, R. D.</name>
                  <name>Bell, S.</name>
                  <name>Bleyer, V. E.</name>
                  <name>Blyth, L.</name>
                  <name>Bragg, A. J.</name>
                  <name>Cadell, R. P.</name>
                  <name>Canavan, M. J.</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                  <name>Collins, J.</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                  <name>Gatenby, C.</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                  <name>Henderson, S. M.</name>
                  <name>Hodgins-May, S.</name>
                  <name>Kovacic, M. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J.</name>
                  <name>McKim, N. J.</name>
                  <name>McLachlan, A. L.</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, M. A.</name>
                  <name>Paterson, J. W.</name>
                  <name>Payman, F.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M. I.</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A.</name>
                  <name>Sharma, D. N.</name>
                  <name>Shoebridge, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Smith, D. A.</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Thorpe, L. A.</name>
                  <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                  <name>Whitten, T.</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>21</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Ananda-Rajah, M.</name>
                  <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A. D.</name>
                  <name>Darmanin, L.</name>
                  <name>Dolega, J.</name>
                  <name>Dowling, R.</name>
                  <name>Gallagher, K. R.</name>
                  <name>Ghosh, V.</name>
                  <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                  <name>Lines, S.</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M.</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Polley, H.</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A. V. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                  <name>Stewart, J. N. A.</name>
                  <name>Walker, C.</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                  <name>Whiteaker, E.</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>9</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Brockman, W. E.</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D. E.</name>
                  <name>Cash, M. C.</name>
                  <name>Wong, P.</name>
                  <name>Chandler, C.</name>
                  <name>Watt, M. P.</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                  <name>Grogan, K.</name>
                  <name>Hume, J.</name>
                  <name>Tyrrell, T. M.</name>
                  <name>Liddle, K. J.</name>
                  <name>Mulholland, C.</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B. G.</name>
                  <name>Cox, D.</name>
                  <name>Scarr, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                </names>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to. </p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division>
        </subdebate.2>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Corruption in the Construction Industry Select Committee</title>
          <page.no>30</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Corruption in the Construction Industry Select Committee</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>Appointment</title>
            <page.no>30</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Appointment</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>30</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Kovacic, Sen Maria</name>
                <name.id>306168</name.id>
                <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="306168" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator KOVACIC</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">12:11</span>):  I move:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(1) That a select committee, to be known as the Select Committee on Corruption in the Construction Industry, be established to inquire into and report on:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(a) allegations of corruption, criminal infiltration, intimidation, coercion and misconduct in the construction industry;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(b) the impact of such conduct on project costs, productivity, workplace safety, competition and public confidence in the construction industry;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(c) the adequacy of Commonwealth laws, policies, procurement rules, regulatory frameworks and enforcement responses;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(d) risks arising in relation to tendering, subcontracting, labour hire, industrial arrangements and Commonwealth-funded projects;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(e) the adequacy of existing oversight and administration mechanisms, and whether administrative or legislative reform is required; and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(f) any other related matters.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(2) That the committee present its report by 12 March 2027.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(3) That the committee consist of 7 senators, as follows:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(a) three nominated by the Leader of the Opposition in the Senate;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(b) two nominated by the Leader of the Government in the Senate;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(c) one nominated by the Leader of the Australian Greens; and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(d) one nominated by minority party or independent senators.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(4) That:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(a) participating members may be appointed to the committee on the nomination of the Leader of the Government in the Senate, the Leader of the Opposition in the Senate or any minority party or independent senator;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(b) participating members may participate in hearings of evidence and deliberations of the committee, and have all the rights of members of the committee, but may not vote on any questions before the committee; and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(c) a participating member shall be taken to be a member of a committee for the purpose of forming a quorum of the committee if a majority of members of the committee is not present.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(5) That the committee may proceed to the dispatch of business notwithstanding that all members have not been duly nominated and appointed and notwithstanding any vacancy.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(6) That the committee elect as chair a member nominated by the Leader of the Opposition in the Senate and, as deputy chair, the member nominated by the Leader of the Australian Greens.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(7) That the deputy chair shall act as chair when the chair is absent from a meeting of the committee or the position of chair is temporarily vacant.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(8) That, in the event of an equally divided vote, the chair, or the deputy chair when acting as chair, have a casting vote.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(9) That the committee have power to appoint subcommittees consisting of 3 or more of its members, and to refer to any such subcommittee any of the matters which the committee is empowered to consider.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(10) That the committee and any subcommittee have power to send for and examine persons and documents, to move from place to place, to sit in public or in private, notwithstanding any prorogation of the Parliament or dissolution of the House of Representatives, and have leave to report from time to time its proceedings and the evidence taken and such interim recommendations as it may deem fit.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(11) That the committee be provided with all necessary staff, facilities and resources and be empowered to appoint persons with specialist knowledge for the purposes of the committee with the approval of the President.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(12) That the committee be empowered to print from day to day such papers and evidence as may be ordered by it, and a daily Hansard be published of such proceedings as take place in public.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                    </a>  The question is that general business notice of motion No. 725 standing in the name of Senator Kovacic be agreed to.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal"> </span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
            <interjection>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>31</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                  <name.id>112096</name.id>
                  <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                  <party>ALP</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </interjection>
          </speech>
          <division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [12:12]<br />(The President—Senator Lines) </p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>23</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Antic, A.</name>
                  <name>Babet, R. D.</name>
                  <name>Bell, S.</name>
                  <name>Blyth, L.</name>
                  <name>Bragg, A. J.</name>
                  <name>Cadell, R. P.</name>
                  <name>Canavan, M. J.</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                  <name>Collins, J.</name>
                  <name>Gatenby, C.</name>
                  <name>Henderson, S. M.</name>
                  <name>Kovacic, M. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J.</name>
                  <name>McLachlan, A. L.</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, M. A.</name>
                  <name>Paterson, J. W.</name>
                  <name>Payman, F.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M. I.</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A.</name>
                  <name>Sharma, D. N.</name>
                  <name>Smith, D. A.</name>
                  <name>Whitten, T.</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>31</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                  <name>Ananda-Rajah, M.</name>
                  <name>Bleyer, V. E.</name>
                  <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A. D.</name>
                  <name>Darmanin, L.</name>
                  <name>Dolega, J.</name>
                  <name>Dowling, R.</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                  <name>Gallagher, K. R.</name>
                  <name>Ghosh, V.</name>
                  <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                  <name>Hodgins-May, S.</name>
                  <name>Lines, S.</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M.</name>
                  <name>McKim, N. J.</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                  <name>Polley, H.</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A. V. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Shoebridge, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                  <name>Stewart, J. N. A.</name>
                  <name>Walker, C.</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                  <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                  <name>Whiteaker, E.</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>9</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Brockman, W. E.</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D. E.</name>
                  <name>Cash, M. C.</name>
                  <name>Wong, P.</name>
                  <name>Chandler, C.</name>
                  <name>Watt, M. P.</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                  <name>Grogan, K.</name>
                  <name>Hume, J.</name>
                  <name>Tyrrell, T. M.</name>
                  <name>Liddle, K. J.</name>
                  <name>Mulholland, C.</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B. G.</name>
                  <name>Cox, D.</name>
                  <name>Scarr, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                </names>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division>
        </subdebate.2>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Environment and Communications References Committee</title>
          <page.no>31</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <a href="34" type="Committee">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Environment and Communications References Committee</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>Reporting Date</title>
            <page.no>31</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Reporting Date</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>31</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Hanson-Young, Sen Sarah</name>
                <name.id>I0U</name.id>
                <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
                <party>AG</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="I0U" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator HANSON-YOUNG</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Manager of Australian Greens Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">12:16</span>):  by leave—I move:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">That the reporting date for the inquiry into triple zero by the Environment and Communications References Committee be extended from tomorrow to Monday 21 September. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Question agreed to.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
        </subdebate.2>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>BILLS</title>
        <page.no>32</page.no>
        <type>BILLS</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <debate.text>
        <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
          <p class="HPS-Debate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Debate">BILLS</span>
          </p>
        </body>
      </debate.text>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Defence Legislation Amendment (RCDVS Implementation and Related Measures No. 2) Bill 2026</title>
          <page.no>32</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <a href="r7498" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Defence Legislation Amendment (RCDVS Implementation and Related Measures No. 2) Bill 2026</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>32</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Second Reading</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Consideration resumed of the motion:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">That this bill be now read a second time.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>32</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Shoebridge, Sen David</name>
                <name.id>169119</name.id>
                <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                <party>AG</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="169119" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator SHOEBRIDGE</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">12:17</span>):  I indicate that the Greens will be supporting this second piece of legislation to implement measures recommended by the Royal Commission into Defence and Veteran Suicide. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The purpose of the Defence Legislation Amendment (RCDVS Implementation and Related Measures No. 2) Bill 2026 is to make a series of amendments to the Defence Act and the Military Rehabilitation and Compensation Act to implement approximately 20 recommendations from the royal commission. The minister says that the intent of the bill is to directly implement 15 recommendations and to support a further 20 recommendations. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">This is about changes to both the Defence Act and the compensation arrangements that are going to give some pretty essential support to the health and wellbeing of current and former members of the ADF. It also extends that help to families and requires the Department of Veterans' Affairs to address support for families in a fresh manner so that an ADF member's former spouse or partner can continue to get some support, even when they've separated. It's stopping the mental health burden on families when veterans are put through the grinder in Defence and then, sometimes, the grinder in veterans affairs. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">We know who often takes that burden: family members. Sadly, too often, the way in which Defence treats serving members, and the way in which veterans affairs treats veterans, leads to significant mental health concerns for veterans. Too often, that can lead to family breakdown. It is wrong to just ignore the partners of those veterans and simply say, 'Actually, you don't count anymore; you don't matter', because the trauma that they've had to live through and support, the family breakdown, all has at its core the injury and the way that injury was dealt with inside Defence. So we think extending support to former spouses and partners in the aftermath of a separation, where it's appropriate, is incredibly important.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The other provisions build on the amendments that were put in the previous bill that we considered, including directly—explicitly—prohibiting persons who had been sentenced to a period of imprisonment for a sexual offence from ever joining the ADF. It is remarkable that that wasn't in the law already, but, with this legislation, that will now become part of the law.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">One of the core problems that the royal commission found was that there was not a safe culture to speak up inside Defence—that, if you spoke up, you often got shot down. That is the message we got repeatedly from veterans. It's what the royal commission heard, and it's what my office has heard in our engagement with veterans. It is essential to ensure that, when veterans disclose information—it might be whistleblowing; it might be personal health information; it may be other deeply personal information—they know that it will only be for the purposes of the wellbeing, health and safety of ADF members and that it can't be abused by the hierarchy. This legislation puts that in place.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">This is a bill that has been a long time coming. I want to give credit to the brave veterans and serving members of the ADF who gave their evidence to the royal commission and told the truth about the way the Defence Force so often treats its members as disposable. I hope that veterans and serving members of the Defence Force realise, with the broad political support for this legislation, that the Greens and other parties in here don't view current and former members of the Defence Force as disposable. They are people with full lives and families and the right to be treated with respect and decency inside and outside of Defence. This bill goes some way to making that a reality.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>32</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Smith, Sen Dean</name>
                <name.id>241710</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="241710" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator DEAN SMITH</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Western Australia</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">12:22</span>):  I rise today to speak on behalf of the coalition on the Defence Legislation Amendment (RCDVS Implementation and Related Measures No. 2) Bill 2026 and put on record the coalition's support for this bill and its objectives. This legislation is not merely a collection of administrative adjustments or technical tweaks. It represents a significant legislative response to the findings of the Royal Commission into Defence and Veteran Suicide, a royal commission established by the former coalition government.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Every senator in this place carries a heavy responsibility to ensure that those who wear the uniform and those who have worn it receive the support, care and respect their service deserves. We also carry a duty to the families who stand beside them sharing the unique burdens of service life. The coalition recognises the profound importance of these reforms. This bill directly implements 15 recommendations of the royal commission, with a further 20 recommendations supported through its provisions. Its objectives to strengthen the health, wellbeing and safety of our personnel are objectives that the coalition wholeheartedly shares.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">For these reasons, the coalition will support this bill in the Senate today. We approach this debate in a spirit of constructive engagement, acknowledging the valuable work of ex-service organisations, advocates and families who have fought for these changes. However, our support is cautious. It is support predicated on the requirement that these reforms deliver genuine, tangible improvements rather than simply adding more layers of administrative complexity to a system that many service personnel and veterans already find difficult to navigate. We must ensure that this legislation is effective, proportionate and capable of delivering the improvements that are needed, recommended and promised.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The measures contained in this bill are intended to place a greater emphasis on the support of our defence personnel and veterans across both the Department of Defence and the Department of Veterans' Affairs. The royal commission was clear. For too long, the systems designed to support our people have been fragmented. This has resulted in fragmented information systems, resulting in administrative delays, delays in support and, most tragically, missed opportunities to identify and assist those at high risk of suicide or self-harm. By improving coordination between agencies and strengthening access to support services, this bill aims to ensure that the wellbeing of defence members and veterans and their families remains central to service delivery.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">In regard to schedule 1 on addressing fragmented information systems, schedule 1 establishes a new legislative framework to support health and safety by breaking down fragmented information systems, it expands the functions of the Repatriation Commission to include wellbeing and transition support and it creates a framework allowing Defence, the DVA and other entities to share information for defined purposes. The intent here is understandable and, in principle, supported by the coalition. We recognise the value of reducing administrative burdens and barriers between agencies to allow for earlier intervention for vulnerable individuals and better integrated service delivery. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The bill's support for the Veteran and Family Wellbeing Agency and the National Veterans' Data Asset is particularly important as these will enhance our research capabilities and further deepen our understanding of suicide risk factors. In particular, the coalition supports the goal of enabling the earlier transfer of information from Defence to DVA. If this leads to reduced delays in claims processing and ensures veterans receive assistance at their earliest possible opportunity, then we believe that it is a significant and positive step forward.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">However, we must always remain vigilant. The collection and sharing of sensitive personal information and data relating to health service delivery and personal circumstances is a matter of the highest gravity. Defence personnel and their families rightly expect that this information will be handled with the highest degree of care and security. While the bill includes requirements for ministerial guidelines and the de-identification of information where practicable, these safeguards require ongoing and rigorous scrutiny. We must ensure that any expansion of information-sharing powers is accompanied by robust protections, clear limitations on use and strong accountability mechanisms. While better data can drive better outcomes, it must not be achieved by placing sensitive information at greater risk of misuse, exposure or unauthorised access. The coalition will closely scrutinise the ministerial guidelines that will help protect this information.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">In regard to schedule 2 on modernising Defence health, schedule 2 turns to the Defence health system, seeking to modernise its legislative framework. The Defence health system occupies a unique and often difficult position. Unlike civilian services, it must provide individual care while simultaneously supporting operational readiness and assessing an individual's fitness for service. The royal commission found that existing legislative frameworks have not evolved in step with modern clinical practice in relation to mental health care, clinical governance and the management of health information. The coalition supports the establishment of a clearer statutory framework that clarifies the roles within the system and provides authority for the collection of health information for monitoring and quality assurance. We welcome the alignment of Defence health governance with nationally recognised clinical governance standards. This has the potential to improve transparency and ensure that our personnel have access to high-quality care that meets contemporary expectations.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Providing legal protections for practitioners participating in quality assurance similar to those in civilian systems is also a sensible and necessary step. But, once again, a balance must be struck. While Defence has a legitimate need to access health information to support readiness and safety, we must ensure that the privacy rights of personnel are not unnecessarily eroded. The success of these health reforms will not be measured by the creation of new statutory frameworks but by whether they result in earlier intervention, improved continuity of care and better health outcomes.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">In regard to schedule 3 on supporting families, the coalition believes schedule 3 is a critical component of this bill as it recognises that families are the backbone of our Defence community. We know that there is a profound connection between family circumstances, relationship breakdown and an elevated risk of suicide and self-harm. Behind every serving member is often a family sharing the burdens of service—the frequent relocations, the prolonged absences and the immense pressures of operational deployments. We support measures that improve communication between Defence and families, ensuring they are better informed about the supports available to them.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Most importantly, this schedule addresses the harrowing reality of family and domestic violence. It ensures that former partners are not excluded from support services simply because their relationship with a serving member has ended. Facilitating access to assistance for safe separation and improving the safety of victims-survivors are objectives the coalition strongly endorses. However, in the sensitive context of a relationship breakdown, the need for stringent privacy protections is paramount. Families must have confidence that their information is handled appropriately, and we'll be looking closely at the safeguards governing these specific information sharing provisions. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">With regard to schedule 4, integrity and service requirements, the schedule focuses on the standards of those who serve, establishing a more structured framework for service eligibility and separation. The coalition firmly believes that those entrusted with our national security must uphold the highest standards of conduct. Public confidence in the Australian Defence Force depends on maintaining a professional, disciplined and trusted military force. We strongly support the principle that individuals convicted and imprisoned for serious violent or sexual offences should be automatically removed from the ADF and ineligible to return. Such conduct is fundamentally incompatible with the leadership and responsibility associated with military service. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">These reforms create a more coherent and consistent framework for defence personnel and decision-makers, offering greater clarity and certainty around the processes and standards that apply across a member's service. By more clearly defining legislative requirements and decision-making criteria, they reduce the likelihood of inconsistent, subjective or ad hoc outcomes and support a more transparent and accountable approach throughout Defence. Importantly, the reforms ensure that decisions regarding entry into service, ongoing suitability and separation are grounded in clear principles, fairness and appropriate oversight. In doing so, they enhance confidence in Defence personnel management processes and ensure decisions align with contemporary expectations of integrity, accountability and sound governance. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">With regard to schedule 5, the importance of independent oversight, the schedule contains amendments to support the independence and effectiveness of the Defence and Veterans' Service Commission. Independent oversight is not just an administrative hurdle. It is essential for driving lasting change and ensuring that governments remain accountable for delivering meaningful reform. Effective oversight will be the key to ensuring that the lessons of the royal commission are translated into lasting systemic improvements. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">In conclusion, while the coalition supports the objectives of this bill, we are mindful of the history of reform in this area. For too many, the system has been a source of frustration rather than support. We must be vigilant to ensure that these reforms do not simply result in further layers of administration. The true measure of this legislation will not be the number of new frameworks created or the breadth of its provisions. It will be the lived experience of ADF personnel, veterans and their families. Will they experience faster claims processing? Will access to services and supports be improved? Will we see earlier and more effective intervention for those at risk? These are some of the metrics by which this parliament and future governments will be judged. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">We owe it to our service community to ensure that the legislative framework reflects and supports the purpose it is intended to achieve. We look forward to engaging constructively throughout that process to ensure the legislation is fit for purpose. This bill is a significant step in our national response to the royal commission, a royal commission established, as I said earlier, by the former coalition government. We will support this bill's progression during the course of the Senate's debate. We owe a debt of gratitude to our ADF members, our veterans and their families, and we must always ensure that the systems of support are worthy of their sacrifice. The coalition remains committed to that goal, to supporting the health and wellbeing of those who serve and to supporting those who have served in the past and their families. </span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>34</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Blyth, Sen Leah</name>
                <name.id>315170</name.id>
                <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="315170" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator BLYTH</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">12:33</span>):  I rise to speak in relation to the Defence Legislation Amendment (RCDVS Implementation and Related Measures No. 2) Bill 2026. This directly implements 15 of the recommendations of the Royal Commission into Defence and Veteran Suicide. Australia owes a lasting debt of gratitude to the servicemen and women of the Australian Defence Force, whose service, courage and sacrifice has helped protect our nation and preserve the values that we hold dear. We owe it to them to ensure that the issues identified by the Royal Commission into Defence and Veteran Suicide are neither ignored nor forgotten but are met with genuine reform and sustained commitment. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The royal commission was established by the coalition in response to longstanding calls from veterans, families and the broader community for a comprehensive examination of the systemic factors contributing to suicide among serving and former defence personnel. In establishing the royal commission, the coalition made clear that its purpose was to identify the changes necessary to reduce the tragic incidence of suicide within the defence and veteran community and to drive meaningful and lasting reform. The findings of the royal commission place a clear responsibility on all of us to strengthen the support systems available to serving members and veterans and their families and to ensure those systems meet the challenges they face. It validated the experiences and concerns that veterans, their families and the ex-service community have been raising for many years.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">As parliamentarians, we have an obligation to our defence force and to our veteran community to ensure the issues identified by the royal commission are acknowledged and the necessary action is taken. And this is what the coalition has been doing. Last year, the coalition supported the legislation to establish the Defence and Veterans' Service Commission, which was recommendation 122 of the royal commission. In doing so, we listened to serious concerns raised by veterans advocates about Labor's last-minute legislation for the commission. The coalition strongly supports reforms that enhance the health, wellbeing and safety of current and former Australian Defence Force members as well as the families who support them throughout and beyond their service. The findings of the royal commission place a clear responsibility on all of us to strengthen the support systems available to serving members and veterans and their families and to ensure those systems meet the challenges they face.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">This bill proposes a range of changes intended to place greater emphasis on the welfare of defence personnel and veterans across both the Department of Defence and the Department of Veterans' Affairs. These measures seek to improve coordination between agencies, strengthen access to support services and ensure that the wellbeing of defence members and veterans and their families remains central to service delivery.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Schedule 1 of this bill establishes a new legislative framework to support the health, wellbeing and safety of serving Australian Defence Force personnel and veterans and their families. It responds to the finding of the royal commission that critical information held across defence and veterans systems is often fragmented, resulting in information silos, delays in support and missed opportunities to identify and assist individuals at risk. New information-sharing arrangements in the bill are designed to facilitate access to services and assistance and should result in better and faster delivery for ADF personnel and veterans and their families.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Importantly, the bill contains a clear legislative basis for the collection, use and disclosure of information for the purposes of research, data analysis and evaluation relating to the health, wellbeing and safety of serving and former defence personnel and their families. The stated objective of these provisions is to enable Defence and the Department of Veterans' Affairs to better understand emerging issues, assess the effectiveness of programs and services and develop evidence based policies that improve outcomes for all those who have served.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The coalition recognises the value of reducing administrative barriers between agencies and improving the way government services are delivered to those who have served our nation. However, the collection and sharing of personal information must always be approached with caution. Defence personnel and veterans and their families rightly expect that sensitive information relating to their service, their health and their personal circumstances will be handled with the highest degree of care and security. For that reason, it is essential that any expansion of information-sharing powers is accompanied by robust safeguards, clear limitations on use and strong accountability mechanisms.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The bill seeks to address these concerns by requiring compliance with ministerial guidelines, providing for information to be de-identified wherever practicable and ensuring that the framework operates consistently with existing obligations under privacy legislation. These safeguards are important, and we will require ongoing scrutiny to ensure that they are both effective and proportionate. The coalition will continue to closely examine whether the proposed protections are sufficient to safeguard the privacy of defence members and veterans and their families while enabling the legitimate research and evaluation activities necessary to improve services and support.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The royal commission also found that the existing legislative framework had not kept pace with contemporary clinical practices and does not adequately support modern approaches to health governance, data management and mental health care. Schedule 2 seeks to modernise the legislative framework governing defence health services and respond to several recommendations made by the royal commission. Given the unique health challenges faced by many defence personnel, the coalition supports efforts to ensure the defence health system operates to the highest possible standards and delivers timely, effective and appropriate care. However, while there is a legitimate need for Defence to access relevant health information to support readiness and safety, safeguards must remain robust and clear to ensure personal health information is used only when necessary and appropriate. As with other elements of this legislation, the effectiveness of these reforms will ultimately be measured by whether they result in improved health outcomes for those who rely upon them. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The royal commission identified that family circumstances, relationship breakdown and family and domestic violence can have a profound effect on the wellbeing of defence members and veterans. Schedule 3 seeks to strengthen legislative support for defence families by recognising the critical role families play in the wellbeing, resilience and long-term health outcomes of serving and former ADF personnel. In doing so, it attempts to give effect to recommendations of the royal commission relating to family and domestic violence, family support and suicide prevention. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The coalition recognises the important contribution defence families make to Australia's national security. Behind every serving member is often a family that shares the burdens of service life, including frequent relocations, prolonged absences, operational deployments and pressures associated with military service. The coalition acknowledges the seriousness of family and domestic violence and supports measures to improve safety for victim-survivors and strengthen pathways to assistance. Families must have confidence that sensitive personal information will be handled appropriately and with strong privacy protections and clear limitations on how information can be used. Ultimately, again, the effectiveness of these reforms will depend on whether they translate into meaningful improvements in support of defence families, better identification of individuals at risk and stronger responses to family and domestic violence. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Schedule 4 establishes a more structured statutory framework governing service eligibility and end-of-service arrangements. The schedule also seeks to strengthen provisions relating to fitness for service and termination of service in circumstances involving serious criminal offending. In particular, it proposes that individuals who are imprisoned for serious violent offences or sexual offences will be automatically separated from the Australian Defence Force and will be ineligible to return to service. The coalition supports the principle that individuals convicted and imprisoned for the most serious violent and sexual offences should not continue to serve in the Australian Defence Force. Such conduct is fundamentally incompatible with the standards expected of those entrusted with the defence of our nation and the leadership responsibilities associated with military service. At the same time, it is important that any framework governing entry to, continuation of and separation from service is accompanied by appropriate procedural safeguards, clear decision-making criteria and effective review mechanisms. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Schedule 5 contains a series of amendments intended to support the effective operation and independence of the Defence and Veterans' Service Commission. These measures are designed to strengthen the commission's ability to perform its oversight and review functions consistent with recommendations made by the royal commission. The coalition recognises the importance of an independent body capable of scrutinising defence and veterans' services, identifying systemic issues and ensuring governments remain accountable for delivering meaningful reform. Effective oversight will be essential if the lessons of the royal commission are to be translated into lasting improvements for defence personnel, veterans and their families. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">This bill represents a significant legislative response to the findings of the Royal Commission into Defence and Veteran Suicide. It seeks to improve information sharing across defence and veterans' systems, strengthen support for defence families, modernise governance arrangements with the defence health system, enhance wellbeing and transition supports, and clarify service eligibility and separation arrangements. Veterans and their families should experience faster claims processing and more seamless access to services, and earlier intervention can be identified for those at risk. The true measure of the success of this legislation will be not the breadth of the provisions but whether it delivers the practical improvements in the lives of serving personnel, veterans and their families.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>36</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">McKim, Sen Nick</name>
                <name.id>JKM</name.id>
                <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
                <party>AG</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="JKM" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator McKIM</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Tasmania</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Australian Greens Whip</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">12:44</span>):  The Defence Legislation Amendment (RCDVS Implementation and Related Measures No. 2) Bill 2026 is an important piece of legislation, and the Australian Greens are very happy that it will pass through this place today. I want to speak about one element of historic ADF policy that has caused significant harm and mental distress to a number of ADF serving personnel and veterans, and that is the historical discrimination against LGBTQIA+ Australians who served in our defence forces. I acknowledge that historical discrimination against LGBTQIA+ Australians was not limited to the ADF. It was, tragically, fairly broad in its scope in regard to both state and private organisations. However, LGBTQIA+ personnel within the ADF and LGBTQIA+ veterans from the ADF—it has to be acknowledged—did suffer significant distress and did suffer significant harm as a result of discriminatory policy settings within the ADF, and those harms were suffered both during service and in the rest of their post-service lives as veterans.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I understand that the government will soon announce that it intends to issue a formal apology acknowledging any harm experienced by LGBTQIA+ personnel and veterans as a result of historical discriminatory policies within the ADF. I want to say that is a very positive development that has and will have the full support of the Australian Greens. What is critical here is that any apology that might be announced and given by the government is delivered with appropriate formality and at the appropriate levels in the appropriate forum. It is the view of the Australian Greens that this apology should be given by the Prime Minister in the House of Representatives.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">We've seen apologies given by the Prime Minister in this parliament in previous cases where significant historical wrongs were attempted to be set right, and an apology by the Prime Minister in the parliament would provide for a moment of national reckoning and an opportunity for those who were harmed by discriminatory policies to understand that the apology is sincere and the apology is intended to be meaningful. We need to heal the wounds that deep discrimination has caused, and such an apology in such a way would be a step towards healing those wounds.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">There is another step the government should take as well as apologising, and that is the government should provide financial redress for those who were discriminated against and harmed as a result of just being who they were and the impact that that had because of the discriminatory policies of the ADF. I want to place very clearly on the record that I am aware of cases where service personnel suffered loss of employment, loss of income, loss of housing and in many cases severe impacts on their mental health. This was personal suffering, sometimes grievous personal suffering, but it also was suffering inflicted economically and more broadly socially. To be clear, people were dishonourably discharged from the ADF as a result of being queer.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Redress would not compensate for harms caused, but it would go some way to acknowledge the injustices that occurred. Redress for LGBTQ+ service personnel who suffered harms and were discriminated against because of who they were is allowed, permitted and available in places like Canada and the UK. Australia should follow the lead of those two allies of our country and provide for a redress scheme here in Australia.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Last year my home state of Tasmania became the first state to allow financial redress for those charged and convicted under the state's former laws against homosexuality and against crossdressing. The circumstances are not identical, but the harms here are comparable, and the response should be comparable as well. The Greens recommend a Senate inquiry to determine exactly how a redress scheme should be implemented, what the redress amounts should be and how redress amounts should be distributed. Apologies do matter. They have meaning, and they can be incredibly significant for people who suffered as a result of historical discrimination and who were harmed as a result of being punished simply for who they were as people. That is the situation in the ADF. People were harmed and punished just for being who they were.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Apologies do matter, and that's why we believe that an apology in this case, if that is what the government intends to do, should be given by the Prime Minister of the day in this parliament. Everyone that was harmed in such a way because of these discriminatory historical policy settings should be invited and facilitated to come to this place and to hear the apology in person or to participate in other ways around that apology. Apologies do matter, but so does the acknowledgement of harm through the provision of redress. We look forward to the government making this announcement. It does have the full support of the Australian Greens, and I offer in good faith the suggestions that I've made today on behalf of the Australian Greens and indicate that we are open to working constructively with this government to, firstly, make sure the apology is given appropriately, by the right person and to the right people and, secondly, determine the way that a redress scheme should operate.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>37</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">McAllister, Sen Jenny</name>
                <name.id>121628</name.id>
                <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="121628" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator McALLISTER</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for the National Disability Insurance Scheme</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">12:54</span>):  I'd like to thank senators for their contribution to the debate on the Defence Legislation Amendment (RCDVS Implementation and Related Measures No. 2) Bill 2026. The Royal Commission into Defence and Veteran Suicide was a once-in-a-generation opportunity for cultural change within Defence and offers the opportunity to enhance the support for the wellbeing, health and safety of ADF members, veterans and their families. The royal commission commenced on 8 July 2021, and its purpose was to investigate systemic issues contributing to rates of suicide among current and former serving Australian Defence Force personnel.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The Albanese government announced its response to the royal commission on 2 December 2024, and we agreed, or agreed in principle, to 104 of the 122 recommendations. We are working at pace to implement those. The bill before us at the moment, which, of course, is bill No. 2, will amend the Defence Act 1903 and the Military Rehabilitation and Compensation Act 2004 and represents the second tranche of legislation to implement 35 of the royal commission's recommendations.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The reforms in this legislation will deliver direct benefits for defence personnel and for veterans and their families in accordance with the royal commission's recommendations. This includes enhanced information sharing and data analysis to allow for earlier intervention to identify at-risk individuals sooner. It includes strengthened arrangements for the Department of Veterans' Affairs and the new Veteran and Family Wellbeing Agency to enhance wellbeing and support those transitioning out of service. Improved defence health services will be established through a legislative framework for approved quality assurance and improvement activities. Stronger protections will be established through mandatory end of service for imprisonment, and entry will be denied for prior sexual offence and violent offence convictions.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The reforms include family support by enabling improved communications to families and safe separation options in circumstances of family and domestic violence. Career and privacy safeguards will be established through ministerial guidelines to prevent the adverse use of health information and reduce barriers to help seeking. We seek better transfer of personal information at transition, from Defence to DVA, reducing the need for veterans to tell their story again and again and supporting timely access to treatment and entitlements. We also seek improved information sharing between Defence, DVA and the Commonwealth Superannuation Corporation to reduce delays in compensation and superannuation claims.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The measures in this bill give effect to important recommendations made by the Royal Commission into Defence and Veteran Suicide. Those recommendations were informed by extensive evidence received by the royal commission from serving and former defence personnel, families, advocacy organisations, ex-service organisations, experts, Defence, DVA and other stakeholders.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I'm not sure quite how the passage of debate will proceed between now and 1.15, so, while this relates to bill No. 1, I, like Senator McKim, wish to acknowledge a significant reform that is under consideration in this chamber today. The Defence Force Discipline Amendment (RCDVS Implementation and Related Measures No. 1) Bill 2026 establishes for the first time an extinguishment scheme for historical homosexual service offences. From overturning the ban on homosexual service in the ADF in 1992, the Labor government is now righting this historical wrong. With the passage of this bill, current and former defence personnel and their families will be able to apply to have their historical consensual homosexual service offences extinguished, meaning they cannot be used for any purpose. The government acknowledges and deeply values the service of our defence personnel. This amendment provides a pathway for recognising the discriminatory practices of the past. The government will make a formal apology, acknowledging the harm experienced by LGBTIQA+ personnel and veterans as a result of historical discriminatory practices, at the appropriate time.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">In concluding, I wish to thank our serving personnel, our veterans, the families and the ex-service organisations who continue to engage as we undertake these important reforms. I table an addendum to the explanatory memorandum relating to the Defence Legislation Amendment (RCDVS Implementation and Related Measures No. 2) Bill 2026. The addendum responds to matters raised by the Senate Standing Committee for the Scrutiny of Bills and the Parliamentary Joint Committee on Human Rights.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Question agreed to.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Bill read a second time.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
        </subdebate.2>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>Third Reading</title>
            <page.no>38</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Third Reading</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>38</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Sharma, Sen Dave (The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>274506</name.id>
                <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="274506" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT </span>
                    </a>
                    <span class="HPS-GeneralBold">(</span>
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator Sharma</span>
                    <span class="HPS-GeneralBold">)</span> (<span class="HPS-Time">12:59</span>):  No amendments have been circulated. Does any senator require a committee stage? No senator requires a committee stage. I shall call the minister to move the third reading.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>38</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">McAllister, Sen Jenny</name>
                <name.id>121628</name.id>
                <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="121628" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator McALLISTER</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for the National Disability Insurance Scheme</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">12:59</span>):  I move:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">That this bill be now read a third time.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Question agreed to.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Bill read a third time.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
        </subdebate.2>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Defence Force Discipline Amendment (RCDVS Implementation and Related Measures No. 1) Bill 2026</title>
          <page.no>38</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <a href="r7464" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Defence Force Discipline Amendment (RCDVS Implementation and Related Measures No. 1) Bill 2026</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>38</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Second Reading</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Consideration resumed of the motion:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">That this bill be now read a second time.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>38</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">McAllister, Sen Jenny</name>
                <name.id>121628</name.id>
                <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="121628" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator McALLISTER</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for the National Disability Insurance Scheme</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">13:00</span>):  I'll commence by tabling an addendum to the explanatory memorandum relating to the Defence Force Discipline Amendment (RCDVS Implementation and Related Measures No. 1) Bill 2026. This addendum responds to matters raised by the Parliamentary Joint Committee on Human Rights. I would also like to thank senators for their contribution to bill No. 1.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">This bill continues the Albanese Labor government's work to implement the recommendations of the Royal Commission into Defence and Veteran Suicide. This bill implements the royal commission's recommendations related to military justice and further seeks to reform the military discipline system, achieving the broader intent of reducing harm to victims and offenders engaged with the military discipline system. Specifically, the bill amends the Defence Force Discipline Act 1982 to modernise, streamline and enhance fairness throughout the military justice system.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The bill also enhances options to address mental health conditions within the military discipline system, introducing treatment mechanisms and diversionary measures for personnel facing prosecution before Courts Martial and Defence Force Magistrate proceedings. Mechanisms in this bill create a mandatory disclosure of service conviction records for personnel convicted of sexual and related offences, including stalking and intimate image abuse. These changes will offer better protections for victims-survivors, especially those subject to sexual and violent offending.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">We heard from the royal commission that we must reform the military justice system to strengthen workplace protections during sexual misconduct investigations while reducing stigma and barriers to help seeking. This bill directly addresses those concerns. The government is prioritising reform activities related to the safety of defence personnel and to military sexual violence. There is no place in Defence for sexual violence, and this bill makes our expectations very clear.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">In conclusion, this bill will directly implement five recommendations of the Royal Commission into Defence and Veteran Suicide, establish the Defence Mental Health Tribunal and enhance procedural fairness in the military justice system. I want to thank our serving personnel, veterans, their families and ex-service organisations who continue to engage with us while we undertake reform.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Question agreed to.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Bill read a second time.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
        </subdebate.2>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>In Committee</title>
            <page.no>39</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">In Committee</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Bill—by leave—taken as a whole.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>39</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Smith, Sen Dean</name>
                <name.id>241710</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="241710" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator DEAN SMITH</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Western Australia</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">13:04</span>):  I move opposition amendment (1) on sheet 3937:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(1) Schedule 5, item 65, page 173 (line 17) to page 175 (line 2), <span style="font-weight:bold;">to be opposed</span>.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>39</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">McAllister, Sen Jenny</name>
                <name.id>121628</name.id>
                <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="121628" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator McALLISTER</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for the National Disability Insurance Scheme</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">13:04</span>):  The government will be opposing this amendment. The amendment would limit the appointment of investigating officers under the act to Defence members, except for cases of relevant sexual misconduct, which could be undertaken by any person appointed under the act. The consequence of this would be to limit our ability to appoint non-Defence individuals as investigating officers—for example, an officer of the Australian Federal Police—and this would significantly impact all types of investigations, including sexual violence investigations. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="306168" type="MemberInterjecting">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Kovacic:</span>
                    </a>  I wish to seek clarification. We understood we were dealing with amendment sheet No. 3937. That doesn't appear to be sheet No. 3937.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="121628" type="MemberContinuation">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator McALLISTER:</span>
                    </a>  Thank you very much for the clarification, Senator Kovacic. My apologies; however, we do also oppose this amendment. This amendment would remove a proposed section of the act which creates powers for directions and guidelines to be issued by the minister to the Director of Military Prosecutions related to the performance of their roles and functions. The consequence of this would be to remove the ability for any ministerial oversight of the roles and functions of the Director of Military Prosecutions. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="274506" type="MemberInterjecting">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The TEMPORARY CHAIR </span>
                    </a>
                    <span class="HPS-GeneralBold">(</span>
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Sharma</span>
                    <span class="HPS-GeneralBold">):</span>  The question is that item 65 of schedule 5 stand as printed.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal"> </span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
            <interjection>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>39</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Kovacic, Sen Maria</name>
                  <name.id>306168</name.id>
                  <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                  <party>LP</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </interjection>
            <continue>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>39</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">McAllister, Sen Jenny</name>
                  <name.id>121628</name.id>
                  <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                  <party>ALP</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </continue>
            <interjection>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>39</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Sharma, Sen Dave (The TEMPORARY CHAIR)</name>
                  <name.id>274506</name.id>
                  <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                  <party>LP</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </interjection>
          </speech>
          <division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The committee divided. [13:10]<br />(The Temporary Chair—Senator Sharma)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>30</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                  <name>Ananda-Rajah, M.</name>
                  <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                  <name>Bleyer, V. E.</name>
                  <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A. D.</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                  <name>Darmanin, L. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Dolega, J.</name>
                  <name>Dowling, R.</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                  <name>Ghosh, V.</name>
                  <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                  <name>Hodgins-May, S.</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M.</name>
                  <name>McKim, N. J.</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                  <name>Polley, H.</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                  <name>Shoebridge, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                  <name>Stewart, J. N. A.</name>
                  <name>Walker, C.</name>
                  <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                  <name>Whiteaker, E.</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>24</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Antic, A.</name>
                  <name>Babet, R. D.</name>
                  <name>Bell, S.</name>
                  <name>Blyth, L.</name>
                  <name>Bragg, A. J.</name>
                  <name>Cadell, R. P.</name>
                  <name>Canavan, M. J.</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                  <name>Collins, J.</name>
                  <name>Gatenby, C.</name>
                  <name>Hanson, P. L.</name>
                  <name>Henderson, S. M.</name>
                  <name>Kovacic, M. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J.</name>
                  <name>McLachlan, A. L.</name>
                  <name>Nampijinpa Price, J. S.</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, M. A.</name>
                  <name>Payman, F.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M. I.</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A.</name>
                  <name>Sharma, D. N.</name>
                  <name>Smith, D. A.</name>
                  <name>Whitten, T.</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>10</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Cox, D.</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D. E.</name>
                  <name>Chandler, C.</name>
                  <name>Gallagher, K. R.</name>
                  <name>Scarr, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Grogan, K.</name>
                  <name>Paterson, J. W.</name>
                  <name>Lines, S.</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Mulholland, C.</name>
                  <name>Hume, J.</name>
                  <name>Tyrrell, T. M.</name>
                  <name>Brockman, W. E.</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B. G.</name>
                  <name>Watt, M. P.</name>
                  <name>Liddle, K. J.</name>
                  <name>Wong, P.</name>
                  <name>Cash, M. C.</name>
                </names>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to. </p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>40</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Collins, Sen Jessica</name>
                <name.id>297964</name.id>
                <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="297964" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator COLLINS</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Deputy Opposition Whip in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">13:12</span>):  I move opposition amendment (1) on sheet 4017:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(1) Schedule 5, item 65, page 175 (lines 1 and 2), omit "is not a legislative instrument", substitute "is a legislative instrument".</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>40</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">McAllister, Sen Jenny</name>
                <name.id>121628</name.id>
                <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="121628" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator McALLISTER</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for the National Disability Insurance Scheme</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">13:12</span>):  The government does support this amendment, and the practical impact of the proposal will be to require that all directions and guidelines issued by the minister to the Director of Military Prosecutions would be subject to disallowance.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Question agreed to.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>40</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Collins, Sen Jessica</name>
                <name.id>297964</name.id>
                <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="297964" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator COLLINS</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Deputy Opposition Whip in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">13:13</span>):  I withdraw the opposition amendments on sheet 4125.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Bill, as amended, agreed to.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Bill reported; report adopted.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
        </subdebate.2>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>Third Reading</title>
            <page.no>40</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Third Reading</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>40</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">McAllister, Sen Jenny</name>
                <name.id>121628</name.id>
                <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="121628" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator McALLISTER</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for the National Disability Insurance Scheme</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">13:15</span>):  I move:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">That this bill be now read a third time.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Question agreed to.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Bill read a third time.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
        </subdebate.2>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Knox Class Action (Facilitation) Bill 2026</title>
          <page.no>40</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <a href="r7539" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Knox Class Action (Facilitation) Bill 2026</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>Limitation of Debate</title>
            <page.no>40</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Limitation of Debate</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>40</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Sharma, Sen Dave (The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>274506</name.id>
                <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="274506" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT </span>
                    </a>
                    <span class="HPS-GeneralBold">(</span>
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator Sharma</span>
                    <span class="HPS-GeneralBold">)</span> (<span class="HPS-Time">13:15</span>):  Pursuant to order, it now being 1.15, we will move to deal with further bills on the <span style="font-style:italic;">Notice Paper</span>.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                    </a>  I'll now deal with the Knox Class Action (Facilitation) Bill 2026. The first question is that this bill be now read a second time.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Question agreed to.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Bill read a second time.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                    </a>  The question now is that this bill be now read a third time.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Question agreed to.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Bill read a third time.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
            <interjection>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>40</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                  <name.id>112096</name.id>
                  <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                  <party>ALP</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </interjection>
            <interjection>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>40</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                  <name.id>112096</name.id>
                  <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                  <party>ALP</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </interjection>
          </speech>
        </subdebate.2>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Universities Accord (Opening the Doors of Opportunity) Bill 2026</title>
          <page.no>41</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <a href="r7501" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Universities Accord (Opening the Doors of Opportunity) Bill 2026</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>41</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Second Reading</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Consideration resumed of the motion:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">That this bill be now read a second time.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">to which the following amendment was moved:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">At the end of the motion, add ", but the Senate:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">(a) notes that:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">(i) students and young people are facing the worst of the cost of living crisis, and 'opening doors' for students is not enough if they are not supported to complete their studies,</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">(ii) students are being shackled by a lifetime of debt which is making the cost of living crisis worse, locking people out of the housing market and crushing dreams of going to university,</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">(iii) the punitive Job-ready Graduates scheme fee hikes, which have led to $54,000 arts degrees, have now been in place for longer under Albanese's Labor Government than they were under the Morrison Government,</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">(iv) while degree costs skyrocket, student payments like Austudy and Youth Allowance remain well below the poverty line,</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">(v) higher education, like education at every level, is an essential public good that should be free, accessible and equitable, and</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">(vi) all students undertaking mandatory placements should be paid for every hour of work they are required to do, at least at minimum wage, not a lesser supplementary amount; and</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">(b) calls on the Government to:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">(i) invest in, and fully fund, higher education for leaning, teaching and research,</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">(ii) increase Austudy and Youth Allowance,</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">(iii) wipe all student debt and make university and TAFE fee-free for all,</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">(iv) urgently reverse the fee hikes and funding cuts of the Job-ready Graduates scheme, and</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">(v) pay all students doing mandatory placements at no less than minimum wage rates".</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>41</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="112096" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">The PRESIDENT</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Time">13:17</span>):  We have a deferred vote on Senator Faruqi's second reading amendment. We'll deal with that now. The question is that the second reading amendment moved by Senator Faruqi on sheet No. 4109 be agreed to.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal"> </span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [13:22]<br />(The President—Senator Lines) </p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>13</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                  <name>Bleyer, V. E.</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                  <name>Hodgins-May, S.</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J.</name>
                  <name>McKim, N. J. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Payman, F.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                  <name>Shoebridge, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>23</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Ananda-Rajah, M.</name>
                  <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                  <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A. D.</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                  <name>Darmanin, L.</name>
                  <name>Dolega, J.</name>
                  <name>Dowling, R.</name>
                  <name>Ghosh, V.</name>
                  <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                  <name>Kovacic, M. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Lines, S.</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M.</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, M. A.</name>
                  <name>Polley, H.</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                  <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                  <name>Stewart, J. N. A.</name>
                  <name>Walker, C.</name>
                  <name>Whiteaker, E.</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names />
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived. </p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>42</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Pocock, Sen David</name>
                <name.id>256136</name.id>
                <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
                <party>IND</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="256136" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator DAVID POCOCK</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Australian Capital Territory</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Independent ACT Whip</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">13:23</span>):  I move the second reading amendment on sheet 4124:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">At the end of the motion, add ", but the Senate calls on the Government to:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(a) urgently review the Job-ready Graduates Package funding and student contribution settings, including their adequacy, equity, simplicity and effects on student choice and participation; and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(b) improve the definition of an eligible equity student and the operation of   <br clear="all">.</br>needs-based funding so that:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(i) disadvantage may be identified using appropriate individual, household and area-based measures, rather than area-based measures alone,</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(ii) funding reaches students experiencing barriers to access, participation, retention or completion,</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(iii) in addition to Indigenous and low socioeconomic status students, consideration is given to first-in-family students, students from   <br clear="all">.</br>non-English speaking backgrounds, students from regional, rural and remote areas, students with disability and other under-represented cohorts,</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(iv) detailed eligibility criteria are developed following advice from the Australian Tertiary Education Commission and public consultation, and </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(v) those criteria are prescribed by disallowable legislative instrument".</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                    </a>  The question is that the second reading amendment on sheet 4124 moved by Senator David Pocock be agreed to.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal"> </span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
            <interjection>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>42</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                  <name.id>112096</name.id>
                  <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                  <party>ALP</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </interjection>
          </speech>
          <division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [13:25]<br />(The President—Senator Lines)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>13</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                  <name>Bleyer, V. E.</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                  <name>Hodgins-May, S.</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J.</name>
                  <name>McKim, N. J. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Payman, F.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                  <name>Shoebridge, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>23</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Ananda-Rajah, M.</name>
                  <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                  <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A. D.</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                  <name>Darmanin, L.</name>
                  <name>Dolega, J.</name>
                  <name>Dowling, R.</name>
                  <name>Ghosh, V.</name>
                  <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                  <name>Kovacic, M. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Lines, S.</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M.</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, M. A.</name>
                  <name>Polley, H.</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                  <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                  <name>Stewart, J. N. A.</name>
                  <name>Walker, C.</name>
                  <name>Whiteaker, E.</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names />
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived. </p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>42</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Whitten, Sen Tyron</name>
                <name.id>317026</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ON</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="317026" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator WHITTEN</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Western Australia</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">13:27</span>):  I move the second reading amendment on sheet 4100:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">At the end of the motion, add ", but the Senate:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(a) notes:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(i) the additional cost burden on rural and regional students going to university and the need for additional funding to ensure that they have the same opportunities for higher education as students in metropolitan areas,</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(ii) that additional funding and payments should be provided based on need and not on immutable characteristics such as race or gender,</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(iii) that funding should be provided directly to students to address their additional costs, not to the universities, many of which already suffer from bloated administrations,</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(iv) that the centralisation of university placements in the hands of the bureaucrats of the Australian Tertiary Education Commission is   <br clear="all">.</br>anti-competitive, will result in a lower standard of education and will create an environment that promotes political favours and lobbying to be awarded more favourable placements, and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(v) that this bill continues the Labor Government's aggressive expansion of ministerial powers; and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(b) calls on the Government to:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(i) provide additional, needs-based funding directly to students to address their own education needs, and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(ii) stop centralising control of Australian institutions in the hands of ministers and government bureaucrats".</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                    </a>  The question is that the second reading amendment moved by Senator Whitten on sheet 4100 be agreed to.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal"> </span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
            <interjection>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>43</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                  <name.id>112096</name.id>
                  <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                  <party>ALP</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </interjection>
          </speech>
          <division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [13:31]<br />(The President—Senator Lines)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>21</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Antic, A.</name>
                  <name>Babet, R. D.</name>
                  <name>Bell, S.</name>
                  <name>Blyth, L.</name>
                  <name>Bragg, A. J.</name>
                  <name>Cadell, R. P.</name>
                  <name>Canavan, M. J.</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                  <name>Collins, J.</name>
                  <name>Gatenby, C.</name>
                  <name>Hanson, P. L.</name>
                  <name>Henderson, S. M.</name>
                  <name>Kovacic, M. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>McLachlan, A. L.</name>
                  <name>Nampijinpa Price, J. S.</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, M. A.</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M. I.</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A.</name>
                  <name>Sharma, D. N.</name>
                  <name>Smith, D. A.</name>
                  <name>Whitten, T.</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>32</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                  <name>Ananda-Rajah, M.</name>
                  <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                  <name>Bleyer, V. E.</name>
                  <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A. D.</name>
                  <name>Darmanin, L. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Dolega, J.</name>
                  <name>Dowling, R.</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                  <name>Ghosh, V.</name>
                  <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                  <name>Hodgins-May, S.</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J.</name>
                  <name>Lines, S.</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M.</name>
                  <name>McKim, N. J.</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Payman, F.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                  <name>Polley, H.</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                  <name>Shoebridge, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Stewart, J. N. A.</name>
                  <name>Walker, C.</name>
                  <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                  <name>Whiteaker, E.</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>10</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Brockman, W. E.</name>
                  <name>Grogan, K.</name>
                  <name>Cash, M. C.</name>
                  <name>Wong, P.</name>
                  <name>Chandler, C.</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D. E.</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                  <name>Tyrrell, T. M.</name>
                  <name>Hume, J.</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                  <name>Liddle, K. J.</name>
                  <name>Watt, M. P.</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Cox, D.</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B. G.</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                  <name>Paterson, J. W.</name>
                  <name>Mulholland, C.</name>
                  <name>Scarr, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Gallagher, K. R.</name>
                </names>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>43</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span class="HPS-DivisionResult">
                    </span>
                    <a href="112096" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">The PRESIDENT</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Time">13:33</span>):  We will now move to two-minute statements.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
        </subdebate.2>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>STATEMENTS BY SENATORS</title>
        <page.no>44</page.no>
        <type>STATEMENTS BY SENATORS</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <debate.text>
        <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
          <p class="HPS-Debate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Debate">STATEMENTS BY SENATORS</span>
          </p>
        </body>
      </debate.text>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Simplot</title>
          <page.no>44</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Simplot</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>44</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Colbeck, Sen Richard</name>
              <name.id>00AOL</name.id>
              <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
              <party>LP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="00AOL" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator COLBECK</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Tasmania</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">13:33</span>):  Yesterday I made some comments regarding the terrible treatment of potato growers in Tasmania from the company that processes their potatoes, Simplot, and the fact that, despite me having convened a meeting of potato growers, some growers were too frightened to come and speak to me as one of their elected members for fear of retribution from Simplot. Simplot have given the growers a date to send back an intention to grow potatoes for them this season with the volumes that they'd like to grow. If they don't send it back, Simplot won't guarantee them supply of seed. Fortunately, the potato growers are holding pretty firm against this, but they're still being subjected to great pressure by Simplot. I don't think it's reasonable that the companies that sell those products—Coles, Woolworths, McDonald's—get off scot-free because, as I've said, they have all these impositions on farmers and growers and the supply chain. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Also, the situation exists with the government, because the Treasurer has said on a number of occasions, with respect to strengthening the Food and Grocery Code of Conduct, that it's about getting a fair go for families and getting a fair go for farmers. Well, can I tell you, neither of them are getting a fair go. This whole business about the Food and Grocery Code of Conduct providing a fair go for farmers is a complete scam because these farmers don't qualify under the code. Families buying processed potato products at the supermarket are paying about 3.2 or 3.5 per cent more, and potato growers in my home state are being asked to grow their potatoes for 2.5 per cent less. Now who is getting a fair deal out of that? I can tell you. It's nobody. The government's not doing anything and Simplot's bad behaviour simply cannot be excused. </span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Parent Pathways</title>
          <page.no>44</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Parent Pathways</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>44</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Ananda-Rajah, Sen Michelle</name>
              <name.id>290544</name.id>
              <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="290544" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator ANANDA-RAJAH</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Victoria</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">13:35</span>):  Flexible, tailored, voluntary support—that is the Albanese Labor government's Parent Pathways program, which, to date, has provided support for nearly 40,000 eligible parents and carers around Australia. I the privilege of meeting one centre in Cheltenham in the electorate of Goldstein recently, and I heard firsthand how Parent Pathways is changing lives. It's helping parents with young kids fulfil their aspirations, whether that be getting a job or starting a course, starting a small business, maybe getting a loan, maybe getting their driver's licence or, indeed, buying a car, and it is working. I heard about one mother who had finished her degree, but, like so many young mums, her career had stalled. She was unsure how to proceed. With the help of Parent Pathways, she drew up a business plan, she set up an online website, she approached local councils, and she's now running art workshops. In other words, she has started her own business, living the dream. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Sometimes people don't need the deep end of the employment service system. They have the skills and they have the smarts. It's the small things that stop them. It might be how to get a driver's licence because maybe they don't have the confidence; how to get a car loan application; how to fit TAFE and study around a 3-year-old child, a busy toddler; how to find mental health support; or how to self-advocate when your own voice is muted because you lack the confidence. Parent Pathways is designed to help parents of young children find their voice and map out those steps so that they can fulfil their aspirations and their own personal and professional goals. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">If you are a parent of a young child and you are on some type of carer payment, then Parent Pathways is for you. Go and check it out. I pay tribute to the team at Cheltenham Parent Pathways. I thank them profoundly for what they do for our local community. </span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Fossil Fuel Industry</title>
          <page.no>44</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Fossil Fuel Industry</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>44</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Bleyer, Sen Vanessa</name>
              <name.id>25813</name.id>
              <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
              <party>AG</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="25813" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator BLEYER</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Tasmania</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">13:37</span>):  Imagine a humpback whale gracefully gliding through the warm, breathing sea, only to be confronted by an abandoned, decaying gas rig. That is the grave reality in our oceans. There is no legal obligation on offshore oil and gas corporations to clean up after themselves. We know this because the Wilderness Society just exposed this legal loophole in the Federal Court. There are currently 6,000 kilotonnes of oil and gas infrastructure in our oceans which will have to be cleaned up. That's 110 Sydney Harbour Bridges. Left alone, the rigs decay and leach poisons into our oceans. Cleaning up this hazardous, toxic, rusty mess from our oceans will cost at least $60 billion. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Three companies have recently used insolvency laws to dodge removing their rig junk. Renters and onshore mining corporations have to pay a bond, yet offshore oil and gas corporations are getting a free ride. This government says it has consulted on laws which will make these corporations prove upfront they can pay for the clean-up. So where are the laws? I would say it makes no sense, but, then again, this Labor government has a very cosy relationship with the oil and gas corporations. Whether it's a minister being given free AFL tickets by a big gas corporation or the offshore energy regulator being packed with former senior oil and gas industry people, this government is putting big corporations' interests ahead of the communities. As the Maritime Union of Australia here today has been fighting for, the government needs to clean up the law and make corporations— <span style="font-style:italic;">(Time expired)</span></span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Taxation</title>
          <page.no>45</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Taxation</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>45</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Blyth, Sen Leah</name>
              <name.id>315170</name.id>
              <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
              <party>LP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="315170" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator BLYTH</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">13:39</span>):  There are two guarantees in life, death and taxes, and the Treasurer has taken this to a whole other level. There are now birth taxes and death taxes, and every time the Treasurer tries to fix his broken, overspending, overtaxing budget, another tax landmine explodes. Two weeks ago, Labor released their exposure draft legislation, seeking to implement a minimum tax on discretionary trusts. It contained a birth tax. Not content with having to back down on a death tax and a divorce tax, the Treasurer now wants to create a new law that means adding a newborn child to a family trust after July 2028 could potentially tax that trust's entire income at 47 per cent. Australian Industry Group chief executive Mr Willox said that this 'perverse oversight' needed to be addressed. CPA Australia said:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">Under this drafting, the family is frozen as it stood on 1 July 2028. A grandchild born in 2030 can never be brought into the arrangement while the parents and grandparents are alive.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Families should never be forced to choose between including their newborn child in the family business and being hit with a massive tax bill. Under Labor's drafting, this is exactly the choice some families could face. This has become a tax policy by whack-a-mole. Every time the Treasurer tries to patch one problem in his $45 billion trust tax, another problem pops up for Australian families and small businesses. At a time when Australians are already being smashed by the cost of living, the last thing a family business needs is another complicated Labor tax hanging over their head. This tax will punish people who want to grow their family, and it should be axed.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Road Transport Industry</title>
          <page.no>45</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Road Transport Industry</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>45</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Sterle, Sen Glenn</name>
              <name.id>e68</name.id>
              <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="e68" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator STERLE</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Western Australia</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">13:42</span>):  On an extraordinarily happy note, I am very pleased to announce that the Minister for Infrastructure, Transport, Regional Development and Local Government last week announced the establishment of the Freight Industry Reference Panel Heavy Vehicle Subcommittee. This provides a new forum for government and industry to work together on the pressures facing our industry and to support a productive and safe road transport sector. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">I'm very honoured to have been appointed the chair of that subcommittee, and I will be joined by some industry titans: Peter Anderson, CEO of the Victorian Transport Association and national secretary of the Australian Road Transport Industrial Organisation; Gary Mahon, CEO of Queensland Trucking Association; Michelle Harwood, executive director of the Tasmanian Transport Association; Warren Clark, CEO of NatRoad, the National Road Transport Association; and Mathew Munro, CEO of the Australian Trucking Association. Thousands of transport and trucking companies are represented by those organisations and those leaders, and they employ hundreds of thousands of transport workers and owner-drivers. I look forward to working with these industry leaders and with the other subcommittees, the Rail Subcommittee and the Ports and Shipping Subcommittee, and with governments at all levels to deliver on the critical actions under the National Freight and Supply Chain Strategy and its national action plan. We'll also work together on the pressing issues not limited to but confronting the road transport industry, including sham contracting and improving and lifting productivity. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">On a final note, I cannot thank the minister enough. In my 21 years in this building, this is the first minister for transport and infrastructure who has actually reached out and said to industry, 'What do we need to hear? What do we need to hear from you and what do we need to implement to get good outcomes for our national supply chains and our freight strategy?' I do tip my hat to the minister. I thank her sincerely. We will not let you down, Minister. We've got the sleeves rolled up and we've hit the ground running.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="283585" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT </span>
                  </a>
                  <span class="HPS-GeneralBold">(</span>
                  <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator O'Sullivan</span>
                  <span class="HPS-GeneralBold">):</span>  Congratulations on your appointment, Senator Sterle. It is a worthy one.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>45</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">O'Sullivan, Sen Matt (The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>283585</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Aged Care</title>
          <page.no>45</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Aged Care</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>45</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Pocock, Sen David</name>
              <name.id>256136</name.id>
              <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
              <party>IND</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="256136" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator DAVID POCOCK</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Australian Capital Territory</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Independent ACT Whip</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">13:44</span>):  I add my congratulations to Senator Sterle as well. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">The FOI revelations reported by Melissa Davey in the <span style="font-style:italic;">Guardian</span> today about the government's IAT, integrated assessment tool, are damning. Time and again the minister has sought to assure the Senate and the public that there's nothing to see here, that everything is fine and that there is human oversight. Today, we know for certain that that is not true. We know that the government was warned that its broken algorithm could not be overwritten by human intervention. Despite assessors receiving assurances, and then reassurances, from the department that they would have powers to change incorrect algorithm decisions, officials realised at the eleventh hour that this would violate proposed regulations.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Even more damning, proposed solutions to remedy this before the IAT went live were ignored for expediency's sake. There's an email saying, 'Yes, we see that that's a problem, but we're just going to go ahead with this.' Then we had the cover-up and we had the talking point saying, 'Actually, there is human oversight.' The government and the department have tried to convince us that someone who looks at a decision and then just rubber stamps it is somehow human oversight when they have zero ability to change that decision.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">This is having such a real impact. I've heard from Canberrans who have been impacted. There are so many different stories. I welcome the government making moves to fix this, but this doesn't cut it. This level of deception does not cut it.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Members of Parliament: Staff, Labor Government</title>
          <page.no>46</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p>
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Members of Parliament: Staff</span>
              </p>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Labor Government</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>46</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Nampijinpa Price, Sen Jacinta</name>
              <name.id>263528</name.id>
              <electorate>Northern Territory</electorate>
              <party>CLP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="263528" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator NAMPIJINPA PRICE</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Northern Territory</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">13:46</span>):  Homophobic, antisemitic, racist and misogynistic—that is how the language used in Rhys Muldoon's now deleted social media posts has been rightly described.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">We will not let the Labor government pretend this was just an ordinary staffer. Muldoon attended the Prime Minister's wedding. He is pictured kissing the Prime Minister on the cheek. The Labor government is very quick to lecture Australians about respect, inclusion and acceptable political discourse. Conservative women, Jewish Australians, Indigenous Australians and gay Australians do not become fair game simply because the abuse comes from someone on the political left. So I ask Labor: are these the standards you hold within your government?</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Mr Muldoon's comments are not just horrific; they reveal an underlying disease that plagues this Labor government. It reflects their lack of standards and diligence. It is why we are in economic freefall. It is why Aussies are struggling to put food on the table. If this government is so careless about the standards it applies to the people within its own ranks, Australians have every reason to question whether it is applying the same level of care to the decisions that affect their lives. When small businesses are struggling to keep their doors open, when Australians are working harder just to get by, they deserve a government that approaches its responsibilities with care and the standards Australians expect.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">A 'traitor', 'a fake Jew', the N-word, homophobia and even comments about a woman's appearance—this is another dark chapter in a list of controversies linked to the Prime Minister. Once again, the Albanese Labor government has fallen short of what Australians expect from their government.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Cybersafety</title>
          <page.no>46</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Cybersafety</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>46</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Whiteaker, Sen Ellie</name>
              <name.id>316555</name.id>
              <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="316555" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator WHITEAKER</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Western Australia</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">13:48</span>):  The internet is a very different place from the one that I grew up with. When I was a teenager, the biggest social crisis that I faced online was deciding who made it to my Top 8 best friends on MySpace. The most heated debate that I saw online was whether you were 'team Edward' or 'team Jacob'. In the interests of bipartisanship, I won't be telling the chamber which team I was on!</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Seriously, though, there were risks. We were told not to talk to strangers online, and, if something made us uncomfortable, we could log off. We could leave the computer in the study and walk away. Today, logging off the internet is not that simple. Feeds are designed to learn exactly what holds a young person's attention and keep serving it up. They follow kids into their bedrooms late into the night.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">That is why our government introduced world-leading social media minimum age laws. We know the internet does not become safe the day a person turns 16, and the responsibility for staying safe online shouldn't be put on our kids. When you buy a car in this country, you don't have to crash test it yourself, because it has to meet a safety standard before it ever reaches the showroom floor.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">For too long, big tech has been the exception to that rule, and our digital duty of care is designed to change that. We are seeing a deeply worrying rise in attitudes towards women, especially in young people. We're seeing a rise in sexual abuse between young people. More than one in 10 girls have had a sexual image of themselves shared without their consent before they turned 18. These are all things that we should be concerned about. Under our plan, platforms would have a legal duty to do better—to identify harms and to take reasonable steps to present them. </span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Housing</title>
          <page.no>46</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Housing</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>46</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Pocock, Sen Barbara</name>
              <name.id>BFQ</name.id>
              <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
              <party>AG</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="BFQ" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator BARBARA POCOCK</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">13:50</span>):  The collapse of Bathla Group, the housing developer, shows why Australia needs a public developer for our housing crisis. Private developer Bathla Group owes over $3.4 billion to around 3,000 creditors. They have over 14,000 homes stalled in their building pipeline. So many people have been left feeling betrayed, feeling devastated and without a home, like Janice, who paid her deposit years ago, and Donna, whose Bathla home was her retirement plan. Hundreds of jobs have been lost, and the remaining workers and contractors are owed very large amounts of money. Some of them have gone without their wages for up to eight weeks. People's entire savings are on the line. Homeowners and workers impacted by Bathla's collapse must be protected. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">This is what's wrong with our housing system—when housing is designed primarily for profit, instead of being treated as a basic human right. This just shows why Australia needs a very large and significant public developer instead of private developers profiteering off a housing crisis. Private developers maximise returns and rip off ordinary hardworking people, and those for-profit developers will not solve our housing crisis. The government needs to go back into the business of building homes directly. They did it after World War II when they built 25 per cent of all homes nationally, and we can do it again. It's time we put homes before profits. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">We need to do three things. Firstly, we need a massive investment in the scale of public housing. Secondly, we need to cap rents so the third of Australians who are renters are protected. Thirdly, we need a well-built, publicly owned property developer to build homes that are rented and sold affordably to the thousands of Australians in a housing crisis today.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Homelessness</title>
          <page.no>47</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Homelessness</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>47</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Payman, Sen Fatima</name>
              <name.id>300707</name.id>
              <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
              <party>AV</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="300707" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator PAYMAN</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Western Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Australia's Voice Whip</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">13:52</span>):  Somewhere in Western Australia tonight, a child goes to bed hungry. It's not because their parents don't love them or work hard enough but because the system has let them fall through the cracks. In Hedland, the Youth Involvement Council has spent more than 40 years opening its doors to teenagers who have nowhere else to go. Kids as young as 15 are navigating homelessness completely on their own in one of the most remote parts of the country. That should never be normal. And yet, for too many young Australians, it is. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Organisations like Centacare, through the End Child Poverty campaign, have spent years telling us the same thing: child poverty in this country isn't rare, and it isn't going away. It's the child who stays quiet about the school camp they can't afford. It's the teenager who moves house again and again and says goodbye to friends each time. It's the single mum lying awake doing the math on rent and groceries and knowing the numbers just don't work. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">This isn't only a capital-city problem. The weight of poverty falls heaviest in our regions, where services are stretched thinner and support is harder to reach. We cannot keep looking away simply because a child's suffering doesn't make the headlines. That's why we need to place children at the centre of how we measure poverty in this country. We should move beyond just counting dollars and instead count the missed meals, the missed milestones, the missed childhoods. Every child in this country deserves safety, stability and the chance to simply be a kid. To the families doing it tough in our regions, we see you, and this parliament owes you more than silence. </span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Electoral System</title>
          <page.no>47</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Electoral System</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>47</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Sheldon, Sen Tony</name>
              <name.id>168275</name.id>
              <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="168275" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator SHELDON</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Chief Government Whip in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">13:54</span>):  Every day, we're hearing new revelations about the extent of the relationship between the Liberal Party and the Exclusive Brethren and their Neo-Nazi associates. As we all know, at the last election, the Liberal Party worked hand in glove with the Exclusive Brethren to influence, coerce and intimidate voters and candidates across the country. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Earlier this week, it was revealed that Liberals and the Brethren were coordinating with known Neo-Nazi associates throughout the campaign. The Brethren senior leadership were paying these Nazi associates to stalk members of parliament and candidates and to harass them as they engaged in their communities or in media events. We know Peter Dutton employed a staffer, Sam Jackson-Hope, in his office to help coordinate the Brethren and Neo-Nazi campaign. But we've heard new revelations that Mr Jackson-Hope is now working for opposition leader Angus Taylor. You might think that when Mr Taylor heard Neo-Nazis—</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="283585" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT </span>
                  </a>
                  <span class="HPS-GeneralBold">(</span>
                  <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator O'Sullivan</span>
                  <span class="HPS-GeneralBold">):</span>  Senator Henderson?</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="ZN4" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Henderson:</span>
                  </a>  Acting Deputy President, on a point of order, the reflection on the opposition leader and on one of his staff is outrageous and I ask that it be withdrawn. There is absolutely no truth to what has been claimed and it needs to be immediately withdrawn.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT:</span>  Senator Sheldon, you are naming an individual who hasn't got the right to defend themselves here in this place. I ask you to reflect on that. I can't ask you to withdraw, because there's no particular breach of any standing order, but I ask you to please consider your comments carefully. Senator Henderson?</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="ZN4" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Henderson:</span>
                  </a>  Senator Sheldon was reflecting on a member in the other place and that is a breach of the standing orders. On that basis, I ask that that egregious, false comment be withdrawn.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT:</span>  Senator Chisholm, on the point of order?</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="39801" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Chisholm:</span>
                  </a>  Yes, there was no reflection at all on the Leader of the Opposition, so there is no point of order.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT:</span>  I'll rule. I'm going to ask that we just move on. I've listened carefully. I don't believe there's a breach of standing orders and my job is to enforce the standing orders. Senator Sheldon, please be careful.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="168275" type="MemberContinuation">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator SHELDON:</span>
                  </a>  You might think that, when Mr Taylor heard that Neo-Nazis had been engaged to help with the Liberals last election campaign, he'd want to distance himself from that, but, instead, he's gone and hired the staffer who orchestrated the whole thing. What does that tell you about the member for Hume's judgement? Perhaps he doesn't care if white supremacists are giving him a leg-up. Mr Taylor needs to come clean and tell us how it's appropriate for Mr Jackson-Hope to be working in his office. He needs to come clean and say why Mr Jackson-Hope's role in coordinating the Brethren campaign was appropriate. If he's comfortable with Neo-Nazi associates working on his campaign, he should come clean and tell us all that that's the go, because it's inappropriate.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT:</span>  Senator Henderson?</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="ZN4" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Henderson:</span>
                  </a>  On a point of order, that is a direct reflection on Mr Taylor in breach of the standing orders. There is no doubt about that. I ask that that be withdrawn.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT:</span>  Senator McAllister?</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="121628" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator McAllister:</span>
                  </a>  On the same point of order, I listened carefully to Senator Sheldon's contribution. Senator Sheldon did not reflect on Mr Taylor. Senator Sheldon is simply, as every senator in this place has a right to do, making an argument about the standards of behaviour in public life.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Whilst it's not really the type of language we want to see in the chamber, it was not a direct slur, as I understand it, so there is no need to withdraw. Senator Henderson, I've put my point of view; please resume your seat. It can't be referred. It needs to be dealt with in the chamber. I've explained my position; please resume your seat. Senator Henderson, which bit of 'resume your seat' do you not understand? Resume your seat! I explained to the chamber and I'll explain once again. I didn't hear anything. I have just entered the chamber. If a reflection on a senator is made, it needs to be dealt with in the chamber at the time. It's not something you can refer back to me. I've conferred with the acting deputy. He expressed that he did not like the use of language, but he did not see it as a direct slur. That's the end of the matter. Senator Sheldon, were you still in continuation? You've got seven seconds.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="168275" type="MemberContinuation">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator SHELDON:</span>
                  </a>  My question is: is he comfortable with Neo-Nazi associates working on his campaign? He should come out and say so. </span>
              </p>
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                <page.no>47</page.no>
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                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
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                <page.no>48</page.no>
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                <page.no>48</page.no>
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                <name role="metadata">Sheldon, Sen Tony</name>
                <name.id>168275</name.id>
                <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
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                <page.no>48</page.no>
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                <page.no>48</page.no>
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                <name role="metadata">Henderson, Sen Sarah</name>
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                <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
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                <page.no>48</page.no>
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                <page.no>48</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">McAllister, Sen Jenny</name>
                <name.id>121628</name.id>
                <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
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                <page.no>48</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
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                <page.no>48</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Sheldon, Sen Tony</name>
                <name.id>168275</name.id>
                <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
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    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>MINISTRY</title>
        <page.no>48</page.no>
        <type>MINISTRY</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <debate.text>
        <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
          <p class="HPS-Debate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Debate">MINISTRY</span>
          </p>
        </body>
      </debate.text>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Temporary Arrangements</title>
          <page.no>48</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Temporary Arrangements</span>
            </p>
          </body>
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        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>48</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Farrell, Sen Don</name>
              <name.id>I0N</name.id>
              <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="I0N" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator FARRELL</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for Trade and Tourism, Special Minister of State and Deputy Leader of the Government in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:00</span>):  I advise changes to ministerial arrangements for today. Senator Wong will be absent from question time today for personal reasons. In the absence of Senator Wong, I shall be the acting Leader of the Government—</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span class="HPS-GeneralInterjecting">Government senators:</span>  Hear, hear!</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="I0N" type="MemberContinuation">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator FARRELL:</span>
                  </a>  thank you, team—in the Senate, and ministers will represent portfolios at question time in accordance with the letter circulated to the President, party leaders and independent senators. </span>
              </p>
            </body>
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          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>48</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Farrell, Sen Don</name>
                <name.id>I0N</name.id>
                <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
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            </talk.text>
          </continue>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE</title>
        <page.no>48</page.no>
        <type>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <debate.text>
        <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
          <p class="HPS-Debate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Debate">QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE</span>
          </p>
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      </debate.text>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Private Health Insurance</title>
          <page.no>48</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Private Health Insurance</span>
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        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>48</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Gatenby, Sen Chris</name>
              <name.id>324140</name.id>
              <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
              <party>LP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
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          </talk.start>
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            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
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                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="324140" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator GATENBY</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Tasmania</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:00</span>):  My question is to the minister representing the minister for health, Minister McAllister. My home state of Tasmania has the oldest population in Australia, the highest rates of chronic illness and among the longest public hospital wait times in the country. Your plan to axe an additional private health insurance rebate for over 65s is a direct hit on more than 71,000 Tasmanians aged 65 and over who hold private health insurance—more than half of the seniors in my home state. St Lukes told a Senate inquiry that about a third of its members aged over 65 live on less than $30,000 a year, while a further 45 per cent live on between $30,000 and $55,000. Case studies in their submission show members paying between $3,200 and $6½ thousand dollars a year in premiums, with one member's premium representing more than 22 per cent of her annual income. Why does this government continue to insist that older Tasmanians on fixed incomes foot the bill for the government's budget mismanagement? </span>
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        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>48</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">McAllister, Sen Jenny</name>
              <name.id>121628</name.id>
              <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="121628" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator McALLISTER</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for the National Disability Insurance Scheme</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:01</span>):  Our priority, as I indicated in response to a very similar question last week, is to make sure that taxpayer dollars are being spent to deliver the greatest benefit for older Australians. That does mean directing more funding into the care that people are relying on every day. In the budget in May, our government delivered $3 billion for more beds, for more aged-care packages, for better care. To help fund those investments in aged care, the government will return the private health insurance rebate for older Australians to the same rate that is available to other Australians on similar incomes. We do understand that that is a challenging decision. It's a challenging decision for government, but it is challenging for those people. It is challenging for older Australians, but there is a great deal to do to repair the aged-care system from the neglect that occurred under the Liberal coalition government over the last decade. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="243273" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Ruston:</span>
                  </a>  You messed it up, not us.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Order! I have called order a number of times on my left. I don't want to go through the usual procedure of calling you individually. If I've called order, it means you. I shouldn't have to say, 'Senator Ruston, come to order'. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="121628" type="MemberContinuation">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator McALLISTER:</span>
                  </a>  There is a great deal to do to repair the aged-care system. In fact, there is a decade's worth of work to do, because, during the last government, the aged-care system was characterised by neglect. They're not my words; they are the words of the royal commission into these same matters. You would think that the coalition had learned from that period—but no. At the last election you might have thought that the coalition would go to the people with a whole suite of aged-care policies, but they didn't. In fact, there was not one single costed aged-care policy from the coalition at the last election. That is incredible. It is hard to believe that coalition senators are willing to come in here and ask questions about the wellbeing of older Australians under those circumstances. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Senator Gatenby, first supplementary? </span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>49</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Ruston, Sen Anne</name>
                <name.id>243273</name.id>
                <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>49</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>49</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">McAllister, Sen Jenny</name>
                <name.id>121628</name.id>
                <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>49</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </answer>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>49</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Gatenby, Sen Chris</name>
              <name.id>324140</name.id>
              <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
              <party>LP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="324140" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator GATENBY</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Tasmania</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:04</span>):  Minister, St Lukes told a Senate inquiry that if members downgrade their top-tier cover to silver, 25 per cent of claims—mainly joints and cataracts—will shift onto the public system. They warn that Tasmanians relying on the public system already wait 281 days for a knee replacement and 100 days for cataracts. Will your government guarantee the wait in the public system won't get any worse under this tax on seniors? </span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>49</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">McAllister, Sen Jenny</name>
              <name.id>121628</name.id>
              <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="121628" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator McALLISTER</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for the National Disability Insurance Scheme</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:04</span>):  Senators will be aware of the very significant investments this government is making in public hospitals. Senators will be aware, in fact, that $25 billion in additional funding was made available to the states and territories as part of the last agreement—significantly more than was added to that agreement when the coalition last negotiated an agreement of this kind. We believe in public health. We believe in Medicare—something those opposite have never, ever supported. That's why we're making an $8½ billion investment in Medicare. It's why we're making medicines cheaper. It's why we're making record investments in public hospitals. It's why we're doing everything we can to support the health of Australians, including older Australians in Tasmania.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Senator Gatenby, second supplementary.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>49</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </answer>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>49</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Gatenby, Sen Chris</name>
              <name.id>324140</name.id>
              <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
              <party>LP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="324140" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator GATENBY</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Tasmania</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:05</span>):  Minister, Catholic Health Australia told that Senate committee that Tasmania's only private rehabilitation unit in Hobart and it's only private mental health facility in the state's north are now at risk. We know from experience that when a service becomes unviable in Tasmania it isn't taken over by a competitor; it's lost, just as the Hobart private maternity unit closed in 2025. Will the government guarantee that no more private hospital services will close in Tasmania as a result of this policy?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>49</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">McAllister, Sen Jenny</name>
              <name.id>121628</name.id>
              <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="121628" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator McALLISTER</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for the National Disability Insurance Scheme</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:06</span>):  This government has taken a very close interest in the viability of private hospitals, at the same time as we are making significant investments in public health. Those latter investments are not confined to the public hospital system, although those are very substantial. Our investments extend to Medicare, to cheaper medicines and to investments in workforce, because we want a health system—public and private—that works for all Australians, and we are making very significant investments to ensure that that's the case.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">It's a very different approach than the approach taken by those opposite when they were last in office. They ripped billions of dollars out of public health. They ripped billions of dollars out of aged care. The consequence was an aged-care system that was in crisis and bulk-billing that was in freefall. Australians understand that only Labor will ever take the health interests of Australians seriously, and those opposite might do well to reflect on what work needs to be done to restore their credibility for the Australian public. <span style="font-style:italic;">(Time expired)</span></span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </answer>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>DISTINGUISHED VISITORS</title>
        <page.no>49</page.no>
        <type>DISTINGUISHED VISITORS</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <debate.text>
        <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
          <p class="HPS-Debate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Debate">DISTINGUISHED VISITORS</span>
          </p>
        </body>
      </debate.text>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Acknowledgement</title>
          <page.no>49</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Acknowledgement</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>49</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
              <name.id>112096</name.id>
              <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">The PRESIDENT</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Time">14:07</span>):  I draw to the attention of honourable senators to the presence in the chamber of guests from Japan, led by Mrs Hanako Jimi. On behalf of all senators, I wish you a warm welcome to Australia and in particular to the Senate. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span class="HPS-GeneralInterjecting">Honourable senators:</span>  Hear, hear!</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE</title>
        <page.no>50</page.no>
        <type>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <debate.text>
        <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
          <p class="HPS-Debate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Debate">QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE</span>
          </p>
        </body>
      </debate.text>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Gender Equality</title>
          <page.no>50</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Gender Equality</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>50</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Darmanin, Sen Lisa</name>
              <name.id>301128</name.id>
              <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="301128" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator DARMANIN</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Victoria</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Deputy Government Whip in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:07</span>):  My question is to the Minister for Women, Senator Gallagher. The World Economic Forum's <span style="font-style:italic;">Global </span><span style="font-style:italic;">g</span><span style="font-style:italic;">ender </span><span style="font-style:italic;">g</span><span style="font-style:italic;">ap</span><span style="font-style:italic;">r</span><span style="font-style:italic;">eport</span> has ranked Australia eighth in the world for gender equality, our highest ever result. In 2021 Australia ranked 50th. Can the minister outline the actions the Albanese Labor government has taken to drive this improvement and what it means for Australia's women and girls?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>50</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Gallagher, Sen Katy</name>
              <name.id>ING</name.id>
              <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="ING" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator GALLAGHER</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Australian Capital Territory</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for Finance, Minister for the Public Service, Minister for Women, Minister for Government Services and Manager of Government Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:08</span>):  I thank Senator Darmanin for that question and acknowledge all those in the Labor government who have worked hard to make sure gender equality is at the centre of our decision-making. We can see, as a result of those decisions, of the policies we have developed over a long period of time—including in opposition and then implemented in government, off the back of the work of many on this side of the chamber and indeed those in the government in the other place—that we have now, for the first time, entered the top 10 in the global gender equality rankings.</span>
              </p>
              <a href="207825" type="GeneralIInterjecting">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span class="HPS-GeneralIInterjecting">Senator McKenzie interjecting</span>—</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="ING" type="MemberContinuation">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator GALLAGHER:</span>
                  </a>  We on this side of the chamber think that gender equality is important for the economy—</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Sorry, Minister. Please resume your seat. Senator Mckenzie, I would ask you to stop the yelling. Minister Gallagher, please continue.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="ING" type="MemberContinuation">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator GALLAGHER:</span>
                  </a>  Thank you. In 2021 we ranked 50th in the world. When we came to government it was 43rd in the world. We have consistently, both through our representation of women in leadership and decision-making across the parliament and in the policies we've enacted, ensured that the ranking continues to improve year on year, and this year we have come in at No. 8. That is because of a range of things. Of course women's representation in parliament is important and has assisted in that, but also our policies include the wages policy that we've implemented in those feminised industries of aged care and early education and care, extending paid parental leave and putting super on it, ensuring that super works for women with reforms to payday super and the LISTO—the low-income super tax offset—the three-day guarantee in child care to make sure the childcare system works better for women, free TAFE, paid prac and, of course, publishing the gender pay gaps of Australia's largest companies to really flush out what is happening when it comes to pay and women. And we can see those results reflected in this global ranking news.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Senator Darmanin, first supplementary?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>50</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Senator McKenzie interjecting—</name>
                <name.id />
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>50</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Gallagher, Sen Katy</name>
                <name.id>ING</name.id>
                <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>50</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>50</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Gallagher, Sen Katy</name>
                <name.id>ING</name.id>
                <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>50</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </answer>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>50</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Darmanin, Sen Lisa</name>
              <name.id>301128</name.id>
              <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="301128" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator DARMANIN</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Victoria</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Deputy Government Whip in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:10</span>):  This result reflects real progress on pay, participation and representation. Improving women's economic security and safety are both critical to driving gender equality in Australia. What work is the Albanese Labor government doing to continue to close the gender gap, and why is this important?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>50</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Gallagher, Sen Katy</name>
              <name.id>ING</name.id>
              <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="ING" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator GALLAGHER</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Australian Capital Territory</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for Finance, Minister for the Public Service, Minister for Women, Minister for Government Services and Manager of Government Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:10</span>):  I thank Senator Darmanin for that question too, because the job isn't done. We know that in too many areas of our civic and economic life women and girls are not treated equally, so we are looking at each area where we can make a difference. One of those areas is women's health, where we have had a historic investment in a women's health package, and just today the Minister for Health and Ageing announced a new breast cancer drug has been listed on the PBS. Instead of costing $1,300 a script, it will now cost just $25. And we know that hundreds of thousands of women across the country have benefited from our listing of new contraceptives and new menopause treatments, saving them hundreds of millions of dollars in those scripts that have already been taken up in just over a year.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Senator Darmanin, second supplementary?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>50</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </answer>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>50</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Darmanin, Sen Lisa</name>
              <name.id>301128</name.id>
              <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="301128" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator DARMANIN</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Victoria</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Deputy Government Whip in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:11</span>):  Violence against women and girls is a key contributor to gender inequality. Today, the Albanese Labor government introduced legislation to end financial abuse in the child support system. Can the minister outline what these reforms will mean for children and for families?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>50</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Gallagher, Sen Katy</name>
              <name.id>ING</name.id>
              <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="ING" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator GALLAGHER</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Australian Capital Territory</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for Finance, Minister for the Public Service, Minister for Women, Minister for Government Services and Manager of Government Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:11</span>):  I thank Senator Darmanin for that question. This is an area that the Minister for Social Services and I have been working on together, but, again, it comes from all of the assistance across our caucus in areas where constituents have raised issues with members of parliament, we have seen a problem, have identified a problem and are determined to act on it. There is almost $2 billion in unpaid child support across Australia. Too many children are missing out on that support. I have met some of those children who, when they've become adults, have come and lobbied me to say that, because of their parents' breakdown in relationship, one parent decided to keep them in poverty for their entire childhood as a result of that relationship breakdown. That is not good enough and the Commonwealth will amend our systems to make sure, as much as we can, that, when parents have a marriage breakdown or a relationship breakdown, they don't do it in a way that causes further harm to the parents and children.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </answer>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Indigenous Australians: Domestic, Family and Sexual Violence</title>
          <page.no>51</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Indigenous Australians: Domestic, Family and Sexual Violence</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>51</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Nampijinpa Price, Sen Jacinta</name>
              <name.id>263528</name.id>
              <electorate>Northern Territory</electorate>
              <party>CLP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="263528" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator NAMPIJINPA PRICE</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Northern Territory</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:13</span>):  My question is to the Minister for Indigenous Australians, Senator McCarthy. Last month, Australians heard the horrific story of Dorothy Papertalk, an Aboriginal grandmother from Port Hedland who repeatedly pleaded with Western Australian child protection authorities to intervene to protect her three grandchildren. Her warnings were not acted on. Her three grandchildren were subsequently murdered by their mother. Now we have disturbing reports of vulnerable children in South Hedland allegedly living without proper adult supervision and exposed to drugs, violence and dangerous conditions. Senior Nyamal Pitjikarli elder Doris Eaton has described the situation as kids 'defending themselves from meth and marijuana and violence and dangerous men who want to take advantage of them'. Minister, in the face of these repeated warnings about vulnerable Indigenous children, what action have you personally taken to ensure these children are safe?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>51</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">McCarthy, Sen Malarndirri</name>
              <name.id>122087</name.id>
              <electorate>Northern Territory</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="122087" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator McCARTHY</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Northern Territory</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for Indigenous Australians</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:14</span>):  Thank you, Senator Nampijinpa Price, for the question. It has been incredibly distressing to see the stories that we've seen in Western Australia. It is too familiar a story, really, in so many families right across Australia, and certainly not just with First Nations children as well. What I can inform the Senate is that I have reached out to the WA government. I have sought a direct briefing with the minister responsible in the Western Australian government, and I hope to have that briefing this afternoon. It is important to hear from the Western Australian government, given that they do have responsibility for the care and protection of children in the state of Western Australia, and I am more than happy to inform the Senate once I am briefed, in terms of the Minister for Child Protection's role.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Senator Nampijinpa Price, first supplementary?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>51</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </answer>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>51</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Nampijinpa Price, Sen Jacinta</name>
              <name.id>263528</name.id>
              <electorate>Northern Territory</electorate>
              <party>CLP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="263528" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator NAMPIJINPA PRICE</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Northern Territory</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:15</span>):  Minister, senior elder Doris Eaton has made clear that children cannot simply be left in homes where they are exposed to abuse, drugs and violence. Do you agree that, where authorities have evidence that a child is at risk of abuse, neglect or violence, the safety of that child must come first and authorities must intervene? And have you sought assurances from the Western Australian government that the children identified in South Hedland are now safe?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>51</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">McCarthy, Sen Malarndirri</name>
              <name.id>122087</name.id>
              <electorate>Northern Territory</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="122087" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator McCARTHY</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Northern Territory</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for Indigenous Australians</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:15</span>):  As I said in my previous answer, that's exactly what I've done with the Western Australian government—I've sought that assurance, which is why I'll have the briefing this afternoon, Senator Nampijinpa Price. But may I just say this to the Senate: every child in this country—black, white or any other colour—deserves to be safe. It is important that every state and territory government and every state and territory minister responsible in these areas ensures the protection of children. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">What I will add in terms of the Aboriginal community-controlled sector is that they must also be involved in the work that is occurring with First Nations children, and we have seen responses, and I have received calls from that sector as well, wanting to ensure the safety of all children.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Senator Nampijinpa Price, second supplementary?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>51</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </answer>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>51</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Nampijinpa Price, Sen Jacinta</name>
              <name.id>263528</name.id>
              <electorate>Northern Territory</electorate>
              <party>CLP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="263528" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator NAMPIJINPA PRICE</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Northern Territory</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:16</span>):  This is urgent and there's too much failure, evidently. Minister, have you personally spoken with Dorothy Papertalk, sought a full explanation from the Western Australian government about the failures preceding the murder of her three grandchildren and investigated the current allegations concerning vulnerable children in South Hedland?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>51</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">McCarthy, Sen Malarndirri</name>
              <name.id>122087</name.id>
              <electorate>Northern Territory</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="122087" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator McCARTHY</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Northern Territory</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for Indigenous Australians</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:16</span>):  Again, I will get the information that's required in terms of the Western Australian government's responsibility, and what I will do—</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="I0M" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Cash:</span>
                  </a>  The answer is no.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="122087" type="MemberContinuation">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator McCARTHY:</span>
                  </a>  Hang on a minute. Excuse me. I am trying to respond. This is a really serious matter, Senator Cash. You may not want to know and you may not care—</span>
              </p>
              <a href="I0M" type="GeneralIInterjecting">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span class="HPS-GeneralIInterjecting">Senator Cash interjecting</span>—</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="122087" type="MemberContinuation">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator McCARTHY:</span>
                  </a>  Have you been to Port Hedland? You are the senator for Western Australia. In fact, how many of you from Western Australia have been there to Port Hedland and been with the families? And how many of you have gone to the Western Australian government to actually seek the briefing that I am going to receive this afternoon? Not one of you. As senators for Western Australia, none of you have shown any interest. Not one of you have even contacted my office.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Senator Nampijinpa Price?</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="263528" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Nampijinpa Price:</span>
                  </a>  My point of order goes to relevance.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  As you are well aware, when there are interjections, the minister is entitled to take them.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="122087" type="MemberContinuation">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator McCARTHY:</span>
                  </a>  I would just remind all senators that each and every one of you is also responsible to do the right thing in the Senate. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span class="HPS-GeneralIInterjecting">Opposition senators interjecting</span>—</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Order!</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="122087" type="MemberContinuation">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator McCARTHY:</span>
                  </a>  I have said I have sought a briefing. You don't want to know, and I'll be interested to see in the next sittings whether any of the WA senators have gone—</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Senator Polley?</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="e5x" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Polley:</span>
                  </a>  President, point of order. I am struggling to hear the minister. There's a lot of disorderly behaviour.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Thank you, Senator Polley. I have called the Senate to order. Minister, had you concluded your answer? Time had expired; there was four seconds there.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>51</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Cash, Sen Michaelia</name>
                <name.id>I0M</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>51</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">McCarthy, Sen Malarndirri</name>
                <name.id>122087</name.id>
                <electorate>Northern Territory</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>51</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Senator Cash interjecting—</name>
                <name.id />
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>52</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">McCarthy, Sen Malarndirri</name>
                <name.id>122087</name.id>
                <electorate>Northern Territory</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>52</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>52</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Nampijinpa Price, Sen Jacinta</name>
                <name.id>263528</name.id>
                <electorate>Northern Territory</electorate>
                <party>CLP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>52</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>52</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">McCarthy, Sen Malarndirri</name>
                <name.id>122087</name.id>
                <electorate>Northern Territory</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>52</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>52</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">McCarthy, Sen Malarndirri</name>
                <name.id>122087</name.id>
                <electorate>Northern Territory</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>52</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>52</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Polley, Sen Helen</name>
                <name.id>e5x</name.id>
                <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>52</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </answer>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Migration</title>
          <page.no>52</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Migration</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>52</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Waters, Sen Larissa</name>
              <name.id>192970</name.id>
              <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
              <party>AG</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="192970" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator WATERS</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Leader of the Australian Greens</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:18</span>):  My question is to the Minister representing the Minister for Immigration and Citizenship, Minister Watt. The immigration minister today told the National Press Club that the government intends to return to the Abbott era, including with fresh detention centres and hundreds of compliance officers to force people back into immigration jail. Why are you following Donald Trump's lead by unleashing ICE-style squads of Border Force on our communities? And why doesn't the government abandon its failed plan to work with the coalition and instead work with the Greens to deliver an immigration plan that prioritises family reunions, skills and our humanitarian obligations?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>52</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Watt, Sen Murray</name>
              <name.id>245759</name.id>
              <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="245759" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator WATT</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for the Environment and Water</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:19</span>):  Thanks, Senator Waters. I actually had a briefing about this from Minister Burke's office in preparation for question time, and I suggested to them that I would put a lot of money on the Greens political party trying to draw some parallel with ICE, so congratulations for being nothing if not predictable—very predictable. It does make preparing for question time a lot easier when you know exactly what the Greens are going to ask you, because all the Greens are ever interested in doing is using political issues as political footballs, and they've done it again today. Well done. At least you haven't had a split this week, but the day is still young.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Of course what Senator Waters is proposing is utterly ridiculous. What the government is proposing to do is to ensure that those who overstay their visas do not remain in Australia. It is a simple principle of migration law that, if you do not have a valid visa, then you lose your entitlement to remain in Australia.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Now, what we know is that, in around 2015, changes were made to our migration system which meant that the resources deployed towards removing people from Australia were devoted towards removing people who had committed criminal offences. That has meant that immigration facilities, detention facilities, have been pretty much fully utilised to house criminals who are awaiting deportation, rather than being used to remove those who have lost their entitlement to remain in Australia.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">So I can only assume that what the Greens are suggesting is that we should have a system in Australia where, when your visa expires, you should be able to remain here indefinitely, because that's essentially what you're arguing for. What we are saying is that— <span style="font-style:italic;">(Time expired)</span></span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Senator Waters, first supplementary?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>52</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </answer>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>52</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Waters, Sen Larissa</name>
              <name.id>192970</name.id>
              <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
              <party>AG</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="192970" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator WATERS</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Leader of the Australian Greens</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:21</span>):  There are over 400,000 people languishing on bridging visas. Every bridging visa is an admission that the government has failed in fast and fair visa processing. Are you seriously planning to punish these people for the government's own failure in processing?</span>
              </p>
              <a href="JKM" type="GeneralIInterjecting">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span class="HPS-GeneralIInterjecting">Senator McKim interjecting</span>—</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  When you've quite finished, Senator McKim, I'll call the minister. Minister Watt.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>52</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Senator McKim interjecting—</name>
                <name.id />
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>52</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>53</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Watt, Sen Murray</name>
              <name.id>245759</name.id>
              <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="245759" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator WATT</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for the Environment and Water</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:21</span>):  Thanks, Senator Waters. Of course the answer is no. The reality is that there are visa holders who are on bridging visas for a range of legitimate reasons, and they need to be processed.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">One of the reasons we have seen the number of bridging visa holders blow out so significantly is that, unfortunately, we have seen some people on visas abuse the system, hop from visa to visa, in an attempt to remain in Australia longer than they are entitled to. Now, if you're going to support that kind of behaviour, that actually undermines our entire migration system and it undermines public confidence in our migration system.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">What our government is about is putting in place a sustainable, fair migration system that allows Australia to continue to accept numbers of migrants in a way that our country has done for decades but without the rorts that continue to exist in the system and that we're determined to clean up.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Senator Waters, second supplementary?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>53</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </answer>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>53</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Waters, Sen Larissa</name>
              <name.id>192970</name.id>
              <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
              <party>AG</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="192970" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator WATERS</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Leader of the Australian Greens</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:22</span>):  The cost-of-living crisis is being driven by corporate profiteering. Turning housing into a vehicle for investment is what's causing generational inequality. Neither is the fault of migrants. Why are you letting One Nation write your migration policy, when you could be taking on the big corporations and the billionaires who are actually causing the cost-of-living crisis?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>53</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Watt, Sen Murray</name>
              <name.id>245759</name.id>
              <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="245759" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator WATT</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for the Environment and Water</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:23</span>):  Congratulations, Senator Waters, on asking another question that I predicted you would ask today. Two out of three ain't bad. The suggestion that the government's immigration policy is being drafted by One Nation is utterly preposterous. For evidence of that, you only need to compare the numbers that the government have included in our migration policy against the numbers that were included in One Nation's policy this week. There is a significant difference in those numbers because there is significant difference between the policy of the government and that of One Nation.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Now, you may choose to use the lives of migrants in Australia as a political football. You may seek to cause division in our community, as we know the Greens have done around the issue of migration. What we're going to do is maintain social harmony and ensure that Australia has the migration numbers that we need. <span style="font-style:italic;">(Time expired)</span></span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </answer>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Early Childhood Education and Care</title>
          <page.no>53</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Early Childhood Education and Care</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>53</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Sheldon, Sen Tony</name>
              <name.id>168275</name.id>
              <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="168275" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator SHELDON</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Chief Government Whip in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:24</span>):  My question is to the Minister for Early Childhood Education, Senator Walsh. Families rely on quality early learning centres to balance work and family life and to give their children a great start. But to have a quality early learning sector, we need to build a skilled, stable workforce. This week, the parliament passed legislation to lock in the Albanese Labor government's historic 15 per cent pay rise for early educators. Can the minister update the Senate on how this legislation will create jobs, deliver fair pay, keep costs down for families and strengthen safety for children?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>53</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Walsh, Sen Jess</name>
              <name.id>252157</name.id>
              <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="252157" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator WALSH</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Victoria</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for Early Childhood Education and Minister for Youth</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:25</span>):  Thank you, Senator Sheldon, for your question and for always standing up for women workers and for all workers. On Tuesday, the parliament locked in our historic 15 per cent pay rise for early educators because, on this side of the chamber, we back workers. This pay rise has made real change in their lives. For a typical full-time educator, it means an extra $255 a week. This is helping educators. It is helping them pay the rent. It is helping them pay the bills, save a little and plan for the future.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">When we first came to government, the workforce was in crisis. Educators were leaving the sector in droves. They loved their jobs, but love didn't pay the bills. We listened, and we acted. When you pay educators more, more people want to do the job. Since the pay rise was first announced, 20,000 more educators have joined the sector—more jobs, more educators and a stable workforce. This is good for children because they see the same trusted faces each week. It's good for families because it means centres are more stable and more reliable. It's good for educators because they can build a career in early learning. Centres receiving the payment must limit fee increases so the cost isn't passed on to families.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">We are strengthening safety too. From July next year, if centres don't meet the national safety standard, they face losing their funding under the worker retention payment, because nothing is more important than keeping children safe. We know this pay rise is working and that's why we've locked it in.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Senator Sheldon, first supplementary?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>53</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </answer>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>53</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Sheldon, Sen Tony</name>
              <name.id>168275</name.id>
              <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="168275" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator SHELDON</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Chief Government Whip in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:27</span>):  The Albanese Labor government's 15 per cent pay rise is creating jobs, attracting more educators to early learning and helping experienced workers stay in the sector. It means hardworking educators can pay the bills, plan for the future and build a lasting career. What are Australia's educators telling the minister about the difference this pay rise is making for their families? </span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>54</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Walsh, Sen Jess</name>
              <name.id>252157</name.id>
              <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="252157" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator WALSH</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Victoria</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for Early Childhood Education and Minister for Youth</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:27</span>):  Well, this week I met Melanie, Sisca, Sharon, Dristi and Kath, five dedicated early educators working across Canberra. But their story could be the story of any one of the 215,000 early educators benefiting from this pay rise. Educating and caring for children is the most important job in this country, and Melanie told me she's been doing it for many years. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Melanie told me that, during the 10 long years of the coalition doing absolutely nothing about their wages, she had been advocating for this pay rise with her union, the United Workers Union. She told me that the change took time and that the change she advocated for has been worth it, especially when she looks at younger educators like Siska and Dristi, who now see a future in the jobs that they love. <span style="font-style:italic;">(Time expired)</span></span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Senator Sheldon, a second supplementary?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>54</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </answer>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>54</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Sheldon, Sen Tony</name>
              <name.id>168275</name.id>
              <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="168275" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator SHELDON</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Chief Government Whip in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:28</span>):  It's great to see so many early childhood educators also speak out and win this campaign, and in the United Workers Union as well. The Albanese Labor government is creating more jobs, lifting educators' wages and building a more stable early learning system for children and families. Can the minister outline the risks to this approach and how that could threaten these jobs, cut wages and undermine workplace and workforce stability? </span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>54</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Walsh, Sen Jess</name>
              <name.id>252157</name.id>
              <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="252157" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator WALSH</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Victoria</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for Early Childhood Education and Minister for Youth</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:29</span>):  Of course, there is another approach. That is the approach of the coalition and One Nation on the other side of the chamber, because they simply do not value workers. The coalition had a decade to support our nation's early educators, and they never did. When we first delivered our 15 per cent pay rise, they dismissed it as a 'sugar hit'. And One Nation are no better. When Senator Hanson was asked if she backed the pay rise, she refused to do so. 'Didn't they just get a pay rise?' she said. You never hear One Nation backing workers. You never hear One Nation backing pay rises. You never hear One Nation saying workers deserve to be valued. On this side of the chamber, we value early educators, we value Australian workers and we are proud to always back them in.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </answer>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Migration</title>
          <page.no>54</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Migration</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>54</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Duniam, Sen Jonathon</name>
              <name.id>263418</name.id>
              <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
              <party>LP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="263418" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator DUNIAM</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Tasmania</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Manager of Opposition Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:30</span>):  My question is to the Minister representing the Prime Minister, Senator Farrell. In light of Minister Burke's policy announcements at the Press Club today about the urgent need to bring immigration numbers down, why did the then home affairs minister, Clare O'Neil, say in September of 2022, 'Almost everyone agrees with Labor that immigration numbers into Australia need to rise.' She said, 'It is one of the biggest levers we have to drive our country forward, and Australia should pull it.' Indeed, why did the net overseas migration number then soar to an unprecedented figure of over 500,000 in the year 2022-23?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>54</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Farrell, Sen Don</name>
              <name.id>I0N</name.id>
              <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="I0N" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator FARRELL</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for Trade and Tourism, Special Minister of State and Deputy Leader of the Government in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:30</span>):  I thank Senator Duniam for his question. The recent history that you're referring to regarding migration occurred for this reason. We had the period of COVID, where migration into this country virtually ceased. When we came to government, we discovered that there were about a million unprocessed visa applications to come to this country. The government set about processing and catching up on those numbers. You had a situation for a long period of time when the migration figure was very low. Those people were granted their visa applications and the numbers went up. But, since that time, the government has been working to try and get the numbers in balance. And so, over that period of time that you're talking about, numbers have decreased by about 45 per cent.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">As a person who has always supported migration in this country, I've been disappointed in the recent debate about migration. I think migrants have done a wonderful job for this country, and, overwhelmingly, migrants who come to this country are a net benefit to Australia. What I think has happened in recent times is that the issue of migration has been politicised and people have blamed migrants for issues for which migrants— <span style="font-style:italic;">(Time expired)</span></span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Senator Duniam, first supplementary?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>54</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </answer>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>54</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Duniam, Sen Jonathon</name>
              <name.id>263418</name.id>
              <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
              <party>LP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="263418" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator DUNIAM</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Tasmania</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Manager of Opposition Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:33</span>):  By December 2023, Labor's migration strategy was warning of a growing cohort of migrants living in what it called 'permanent temporariness'. The strategy specifically identified former international students who repeatedly moved between temporary visas despite having little prospect of obtaining permanent residency. Why, after almost three years of articulating but not acting on that problem, is the government only today recycling measures that it has constantly neglected to use to tackle this phenomenon?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>54</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Farrell, Sen Don</name>
              <name.id>I0N</name.id>
              <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="I0N" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator FARRELL</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for Trade and Tourism, Special Minister of State and Deputy Leader of the Government in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:33</span>):  I thank Senator Duniam for his first supplementary question. My colleague Senator Watt just advised me about the figure I used in my first answer of a 45 per cent drop in the number. In fact, today, new figures from the ABS show that the figure was actually 47 per cent. So the numbers have fallen. In those circumstances that you talk about, Senator, the reason the numbers have been falling is that we have been doing something about pushing those numbers down. We accept the proposition that, in the current environment— <span style="font-style:italic;">(Time expired)</span></span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Senator Duniam, second supplementary.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>55</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </answer>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>55</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Duniam, Sen Jonathon</name>
              <name.id>263418</name.id>
              <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
              <party>LP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="263418" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator DUNIAM</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Tasmania</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Manager of Opposition Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:34</span>):  Precisely how many people have moved from a temporary graduate visa back onto a student visa since the Albanese government announced in December 2023 that it was committed to stopping that practice?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>55</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Farrell, Sen Don</name>
              <name.id>I0N</name.id>
              <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="I0N" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator FARRELL</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for Trade and Tourism, Special Minister of State and Deputy Leader of the Government in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:35</span>):  I thank Senator Duniam for his second supplementary question. This obviously is not my portfolio area. I shall approach the minister and seek an accurate answer to that question.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </answer>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Trade with the European Union</title>
          <page.no>55</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Trade with the European Union</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>55</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Ciccone, Sen Raff</name>
              <name.id>281503</name.id>
              <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="281503" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator CICCONE</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Victoria</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:35</span>):  Happy Thursday, everyone. It's good to be here. My question is to the acting leader of the government, my good friend and Minister for Trade and Tourism, Senator Farrell. In March, the Prime Minister announced a landmark free-trade agreement with the European Union. That agreement creates huge opportunities for Australian businesses, our exporters and consumers. It will mean more jobs, lower costs and stronger margins for Australian exporters, and I hope the National Party is listening very carefully. How does this deal, secured by the Albanese Labor government and yourself, deliver for Australian farmers, producers, miners and exporters?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>55</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Farrell, Sen Don</name>
              <name.id>I0N</name.id>
              <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="I0N" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator FARRELL</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for Trade and Tourism, Special Minister of State and Deputy Leader of the Government in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:36</span>):  I thank Senator Ciccone for his question and the great work that he does for the people of Victoria. As he says, the EU-Australia free-trade agreement is a once-in-a-generation deal with the world's second largest economy. The EU market is valued at more than $30 trillion, with 27 member countries and around 450 million consumers. This is a huge opportunity for Australian farmers, producers, miners, exporters, businesses and workers. For decades, Australian exporters have faced barriers into Europe that their competitors did not. This agreement helps level that playing field. It will remove EU tariffs on a wide range of Australian agricultural products, and, for products such as beef and sheep meat, it creates commercially meaningful new access through tariff-rate quotas. That means more choice, more customers and stronger returns for Australian producers. It means more secure, well-paid jobs in regional communities and right across the supply chains that support them in transport, in processing, in logistics and in professional services. This agreement is about backing Australian capability, opening doors for our exporters and bringing more investment into the Australian economy.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Senator Ciccone, first supplementary.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>55</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </answer>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>55</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Ciccone, Sen Raff</name>
              <name.id>281503</name.id>
              <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="281503" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator CICCONE</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Victoria</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:37</span>):  Thank you, Minister, for that comprehensive answer, and I hope some of my colleagues on the other side are listening carefully. Amidst the rise in global tensions, free trade with diversified trading partners has never been more important. Once the agreement is implemented, Australia's network of trade agreements will span almost 90 per cent of the globe. Are there any risks facing this critical agreement, Minister? I'm going to listen very attentively, as I hope those opposite will!</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>55</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Farrell, Sen Don</name>
              <name.id>I0N</name.id>
              <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="I0N" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator FARRELL</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for Trade and Tourism, Special Minister of State and Deputy Leader of the Government in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:38</span>):  I thank Senator Ciccone for his first supplementary question. The governments of both persuasions have built Australia's trade network, because it is firmly in our national interests. The value of our trade network is immense. Last year we did a record $1.3 trillion worth of trade with the world. But now some in this parliament are threatening to put all that at risk by threatening to block the EU free-trade agreement, denying our producers access to a $30 trillion market, denying them access to stronger returns and putting Australian jobs and businesses at risk, ignoring the interests of the people they claim to represent in our regions just to chase votes that they are losing. This is not leadership; that's putting populism over policy. <span style="font-style:italic;">(Time expired)</span></span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Senator Ciccone, second supplementary.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>55</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </answer>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>55</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Ciccone, Sen Raff</name>
              <name.id>281503</name.id>
              <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="281503" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator CICCONE</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Victoria</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:39</span>):  Minister, that's why we call you the best trade minister we've ever had. With one in four Australian jobs relating to trade, more than 300,000 Australian jobs are in the ag sector—80 per cent of our ag output by value is exported. Our exports are much more competitive when tariffs are gone. Our farmers make more money. Minister, how would opposing this deal put the ag sector at risk? Who could possibly oppose this deal?</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span class="HPS-GeneralIInterjecting">Honourable senators interjecting</span>—</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Order across the chamber!</span>
              </p>
              <a href="207825" type="GeneralIInterjecting">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span class="HPS-GeneralIInterjecting">Senator McKenzie interjecting</span>—</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Order! Senator McKenzie, which bit of 'order' doesn't apply to you?</span>
              </p>
              <a href="256063" type="GeneralIInterjecting">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span class="HPS-GeneralIInterjecting">Senator Bragg interjecting</span>—</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  And you, Senator Bragg.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>55</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>55</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Senator McKenzie interjecting—</name>
                <name.id />
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>56</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>56</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Senator Bragg interjecting—</name>
                <name.id />
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>56</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>56</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Farrell, Sen Don</name>
              <name.id>I0N</name.id>
              <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="I0N" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator FARRELL</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for Trade and Tourism, Special Minister of State and Deputy Leader of the Government in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:40</span>):  I thank Senator Ciccone for his second supplementary question. If anyone is serious about blocking the EU deal, they're telling thousands of Australian farmers their livelihoods do not matter—wine growers in South Australia; sheep and cattle producers in Western Australia, the NT and Queensland; dairy farmers in New South Wales, Victoria and Tasmania. And it's not just jobs on the farm. These industries support long-valued chains and thousands of Australian jobs. Everyone in this place should support our EU free trade agreement because Australia prospers when we sell to the world not when politicians slam the gate shut.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="207825" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator McKenzie:</span>
                  </a>  Sellout.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Senator Mckenzie, I'm not quite sure who that remark was directed towards, but, if it was to the minister, I'm going to ask you to withdraw it.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="207825" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator McKenzie:</span>
                  </a>  I withdraw.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>56</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">McKenzie, Sen Bridget</name>
                <name.id>207825</name.id>
                <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
                <party>NATS</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>56</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>56</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">McKenzie, Sen Bridget</name>
                <name.id>207825</name.id>
                <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
                <party>NATS</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </answer>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Migration</title>
          <page.no>56</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Migration</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>56</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Whitten, Sen Tyron</name>
              <name.id>317026</name.id>
              <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
              <party>ON</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="317026" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator WHITTEN</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Western Australia</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:41</span>):  My question is to the Minister representing the Minister for Home Affairs, Minister Watt. Minister, Australia's current net migration as a percentage of the population sits at around 1.07 per cent. The Labor government's weak immigration reforms will bring that down to around 0.8 per cent—that is, if you hit the target, and the form guide on that isn't great. The developed world averages population growth through migration of 0.37 per cent. That is 0.37 per cent compared to your target of 0.8 per cent. Our peers in the developed world are getting along with less than half the immigration rate that this Labor government is targeting. Minister, why does this government insist that the Australian economy needs an immigration rate more than the rest of the developed world, with an additional one million people over four years?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>56</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Watt, Sen Murray</name>
              <name.id>245759</name.id>
              <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="245759" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator WATT</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for the Environment and Water</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:42</span>):  Thanks, Senator Whitten. Senator Whitten, there are a lot of numbers in there. In my experience, I don't tend to rely on numbers from One Nation. I tend to rely on numbers that come from independent sources, such as the Bureau of Statistics, which has, today, shown that, as a result of the government's efforts, we have brought down net overseas migration by 47 per cent—nearly halved it since the numbers that we inherited from the coalition, from the broken, rorted, fraudulent migration system that was presided over by the coalition.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">I know it's really embarrassing for the coalition that you used to be run by a bloke called Peter Dutton, just like it's embarrassing that you used to be run by a person called Sussan Ley and just like you're embarrassed that you used to be run by a bloke called Scott Morrison. I know there's a lot to be embarrassed about, but the reality is that the review that was conducted of the migration system after we came to office found that the migration system presided over by the coalition was fundamentally broken, was full of rorts and needed to be reformed. It's that reform that we have undertaken for the last four years which has resulted in net overseas migration falling by 47 per cent, and, of course, we are now building on that work, as a result of the new policies that have been announced today which carefully balance the need to make sure that we have a migration policy that is sustainable, that we have migration numbers that are sustainable, that value the role of migrants in our community in a way that One Nation will never do and that also ensure that we supply the workforce needs of Australia.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Senator Whitten, as I said earlier in the week, I don't know when you last walked into a hospital or an aged care facility or an abattoir in Australia. We rely on migrant labour. We need to get the migration numbers down but without crushing the economy.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Senator Whitten, first supplementary?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>56</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </answer>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>56</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Whitten, Sen Tyron</name>
              <name.id>317026</name.id>
              <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
              <party>ON</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="317026" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator WHITTEN</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Western Australia</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:44</span>):  Canada drastically cut its migration rate. As a percentage of population, migration is now negative 0.32 per cent. Since these cuts began, Canada has had 1.3 per cent per capita GDP growth, while Australia has gone backwards by 0.1 per cent per capita. Minister, you have said that a negative migration rate would kill the Australian economy. How do you reconcile that comment with the fact that Canada is outperforming Australia under net negative migration?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>56</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Watt, Sen Murray</name>
              <name.id>245759</name.id>
              <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="245759" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator WATT</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for the Environment and Water</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:45</span>):  Thanks, Senator Whitten. Well, Senator Whitten, what you omitted to mention was that, after the changes that Canada made to their migration policy, they experienced two consecutive quarters of GDP falling, which, by any definition, represents a recession. That is what the impact of One Nation's policies would be if they were implemented.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Now, we acknowledge, and have acknowledged for some time, that migration numbers in Australia do need to be reduced to sustainable levels. That's why we've had targets in our budget papers for some time demonstrating our intent to reduce migration numbers to more sustainable levels. But what we do not intend to do is to send the Australian economy into recession in the way that One Nation would propose. What we do not intend to do is to rip hospital workers, aged-care workers, abattoir workers, farm workers and tourism workers out of the regional economies that you say you represent. We intend to get that balance right.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Senator Whitten, second supplementary?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>57</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </answer>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>57</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Whitten, Sen Tyron</name>
              <name.id>317026</name.id>
              <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
              <party>ON</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="317026" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator WHITTEN</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Western Australia</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:46</span>):  When Canada's Prime Minister, Mark Carney, came to this parliament, Prime Minister Anthony Albanese described him as a friend.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span class="HPS-GeneralIInterjecting">Honourable senators interjecting</span>—</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  I'm sorry, Senator Whitten; please resume your seat. Senator Whitten has the absolute right to ask his question in silence. I'm going to ask you to start again, Senator Whitten, because I was struggling to hear you. Start the clock.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="317026" type="MemberContinuation">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator WHITTEN:</span>
                  </a>  When Canada's Prime Minister, Mark Carney, came to this parliament, Prime Minister Anthony Albanese described him as a friend. He went on to describe all the similarities between Australia and Canada as middle-power economies powered by resources and critical minerals. Under Prime Minister Carney, immigration was cut to negative levels. Is it the opinion of the Labor government that Prime Minister Carney has been reckless and has attempted to kill the economy, as you have stated about One Nation's negative migration policy?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>57</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>57</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Whitten, Sen Tyron</name>
                <name.id>317026</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ON</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </continue>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>57</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Watt, Sen Murray</name>
              <name.id>245759</name.id>
              <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="245759" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator WATT</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for the Environment and Water</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:47</span>):  Unlike the One Nation party, which, of course, decides to base its policies on policies we see put in place in the United States of America, Australia comes up with policies that suit Australian circumstances. It's a matter for Canada to work out the policies that they put in place and to decide what's right for them. What we do here in Australia is put Australia's interests first, rather than putting the MAGA wing of certain political parties in charge of Australian policy, like One Nation has done.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">I know it's appropriate, though, that the One Nation party has asked a question about migration before the National Party has even got a question today. That's because we all know that, after the next election, there will be no National Party represented here in this parliament. Senator McKenzie will be gone, Senator Canavan will be gone and Senator Cadell will be gone—all replaced by One Nation senators. That's why we never hear anything from the National Party.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </answer>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Wages and Salaries</title>
          <page.no>57</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Wages and Salaries</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>57</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Brown, Sen Carol</name>
              <name.id>F49</name.id>
              <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="F49" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator CAROL BROWN</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Tasmania</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:48</span>):  My question is to the Minister representing the Minister for Employment and Workplace Relations, Senator Watt. We know Australians are doing it tough right now, with global volatility and inflation the key challenges facing our economy. The Albanese Labor government is responsibly managing the budget to create jobs and boost wages to help deal with these challenges. Minister, what policies has the government implemented or supported to get wages moving again?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>57</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Watt, Sen Murray</name>
              <name.id>245759</name.id>
              <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="245759" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator WATT</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for the Environment and Water</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:48</span>):  Thanks, Senator Brown, for asking a question that I know is important to many Australian households about the fact that they need their wages to keep rising.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="207825" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator McKenzie:</span>
                  </a>  Still not talking about your migration policy.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="245759" type="MemberContinuation">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator WATT:</span>
                  </a>  I know, Senator McKenzie—in what's your valedictory interjection over there—you're still complaining about workers getting pay rises. Well, continue with that until you're replaced by One Nation.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">The Albanese Labor government is helping Australians earn more and keep more of what they earn, with wages, growth and tax cuts for workers. Before the outbreak of the conflict in the Middle East, we saw strong real wage growth for eight consecutive quarters, and, all up, wages have grown above three per cent for Australians for all four years under the Albanese Labor government—the first time this has happened in 17 years. Just think about that. In 16 consecutive quarters, under the Albanese Labor government, we have seen wages rise above three per cent. In contrast, in how many quarters do you reckon we saw wages rise, under the coalition, by more than three per cent? One? Two? Zero. In not one quarter in the 10 years of coalition government did we see wages rise above three per cent—16 in a row under the Albanese Labor government.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="245212" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Canavan:</span>
                  </a>  Keep telling people how great they have it!</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="245759" type="MemberContinuation">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator WATT:</span>
                  </a>  Now, enterprise agreements continue to be a key source of wage growth for Australian workers, and that's why our efforts to reinvigorate bargaining are so important.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="207825" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator McKenzie:</span>
                  </a>
                  <span style="text-decoration:none underline;">N</span>ever had it so good, Australians, under the Labor government—they're not buying it!</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="245759" type="MemberContinuation">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator WATT:</span>
                  </a>  For two years in a row, our government has strongly advocated to the independent Fair Work Commission—</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Minister Watt, please resume your seat. Senator Canavan and Senator McKenzie, seriously! If you can't listen in silence, leave the chamber. You're being incredibly disrespectful to me. Minister Watt, please continue.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="245759" type="MemberContinuation">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator WATT:</span>
                  </a>  I can only assume that the amount of interjection from the National Party is because of their complete irrelevance—</span>
              </p>
              <a href="245212" type="GeneralIInterjecting">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span class="HPS-GeneralIInterjecting">Senator Canavan interjecting</span>—</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Minister Watt, please resume your seat. I've just asked you, Senator Canavan, to either be quiet or leave. The minute the minister stood up, you thought it was okay to interject. It is not. It's me you're being disrespectful to. Minister Watt.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="245759" type="MemberContinuation">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator WATT:</span>
                  </a>  I think we all feel a bit sorry for the National Party these days. If you don't get a question, you don't get a statement and you don't get a vote, the only thing you can do is interject. And that's what we're seeing a lot of from the National Party at the moment.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span style="font-style:italic;">
                  </span>For two years in a row, our government has strongly advocated to the independent Fair Work Commission for an economically sustainable real wage rise for Australia's minimum- and award-wage workers, many of whom are in lower-paid roles and are hardest hit by cost-of-living pressures. Labor advocates for increases to the minimum wage. We never saw it once under the coalition. We never would again. <span style="font-style:italic;">(Time expired)</span></span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Senator Brown, first supplementary?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>57</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">McKenzie, Sen Bridget</name>
                <name.id>207825</name.id>
                <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
                <party>NATS</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>57</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Watt, Sen Murray</name>
                <name.id>245759</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>57</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Canavan, Sen Matthew</name>
                <name.id>245212</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>NATS</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>57</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Watt, Sen Murray</name>
                <name.id>245759</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>58</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">McKenzie, Sen Bridget</name>
                <name.id>207825</name.id>
                <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
                <party>NATS</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>58</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Watt, Sen Murray</name>
                <name.id>245759</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>58</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>58</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Watt, Sen Murray</name>
                <name.id>245759</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>58</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Senator Canavan interjecting—</name>
                <name.id />
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>58</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>58</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Watt, Sen Murray</name>
                <name.id>245759</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>58</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </answer>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>58</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Brown, Sen Carol</name>
              <name.id>F49</name.id>
              <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="F49" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator CAROL BROWN</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Tasmania</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:51</span>):  The Albanese Labor government are committed to ensuring working Australians earn more and keep more of what they earn. We're delivering real change for workers by backing wage rises right across the country. How have the government's changes to workplace laws allowed these wage rises to occur?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>58</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Watt, Sen Murray</name>
              <name.id>245759</name.id>
              <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="245759" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator WATT</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for the Environment and Water</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:51</span>):  Thanks, Senator Brown. From 1 July this year, almost three million minimum-wage and award-reliant workers in Australia received a real wage increase of at least 4.75 per cent. Since the Albanese Labor government came to office, we've advocated for Australian workers at every single Annual Wage Review, five years in a row. As I was saying in the previous question, we didn't see that happen once under the coalition, and we know we would never see it from One Nation because they have always voted against the laws that Labor has brought in to see wages rise.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">We know, on this side of the chamber, that wage growth is important to maintain consumer spending in the economy, which is a crucial driver of economic growth. And the proof is in the pudding. Since the real minimum-wage increase that you don't support took effect on 1 July last year, we've seen jobs growth and unemployment remaining low by historical standards. But all of this, we know—</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="266499" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Hume:</span>
                  </a>  How about living standards? If jobs and growth only kept up with—</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Senator Hume, stop!</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="245759" type="MemberContinuation">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator WATT:</span>
                  </a>  is at risk from the antiworker coalition of the Liberals, Nationals and One Nation.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Senator Brown, second supplementary?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>58</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Hume, Sen Jane</name>
                <name.id>266499</name.id>
                <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>58</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>58</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Watt, Sen Murray</name>
                <name.id>245759</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>58</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </answer>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>58</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Brown, Sen Carol</name>
              <name.id>F49</name.id>
              <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="F49" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator CAROL BROWN</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Tasmania</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:52</span>):  Whether it is boosting wages or protecting working conditions, the Albanese Labor government is always on the side of working Australians. Minister, what else is the government doing to back workers, and what is the greatest threat to all the progress that has been made to date?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>58</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Watt, Sen Murray</name>
              <name.id>245759</name.id>
              <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="245759" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator WATT</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for the Environment and Water</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:53</span>):  Thanks, Senator Brown. As I say, the Albanese Labor government will always back workers and ensure they are paid what they deserve. Our sole focus is delivering real change for Australian workers to deal with cost-of-living pressures, and that stands in stark contrast to what we see from the other parties in this place, who, over the last fortnight, have become a complete soap opera.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Now, I've heard on good authority that Netflix has a new show coming out. It's called 'Real Housewives of Canberra'! On this fortnight's episode, we're going to have the Greens fighting with each other, with a leader who's on life support; we've got the Liberals Angus and Andrew, who can't really speak to each other and don't really want to be in the same room—Senator Canavan certainly isn't feeling the love from regional Australia, and even Senator Hanson and Barnaby Joyce have had a bust-up right over there on that side of the chamber. This mob don't just copy each other's policies; they copy the fact that the other one's having a fight. If one has a fight, they've got to have their own fight. That is how unoriginal you are. That's why you deserve a rubbish Netflix program. <span style="font-style:italic;">(Time expired)</span></span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </answer>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Prime Minister</title>
          <page.no>59</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Prime Minister</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>59</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Kovacic, Sen Maria</name>
              <name.id>306168</name.id>
              <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
              <party>LP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="306168" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator KOVACIC</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:54</span>):  My question is to the Minister representing the Prime Minister, Senator Farrell. On 27 April 2025, the Prime Minister announced more than $6 million in taxpayer funding for the Marrickville Golf Club, a club he has spoken about attending for decades and whose facilities he has used. He was a long-term honorary member of this club until he apparently resigned last week. It has been today revealed that the Prime Minister raised the rent on his multimillion-dollar investment property, which is located right next to the club, on 6 May 2025, which was just nine days after announcing $6 million in taxpayer funds for that same club. It now apparently costs $1,450 a week to rent the Prime Minister's investment property, an increase of a hundred dollars a week in a cost-of-living crisis. Can the Prime Minister confirm whether he opportunistically raised the rent on his multimillion-dollar investment property just nine days after announcing a $6 million taxpayer funded upgrade of the nearby Marrickville Golf Club?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>59</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Farrell, Sen Don</name>
              <name.id>I0N</name.id>
              <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="I0N" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator FARRELL</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for Trade and Tourism, Special Minister of State and Deputy Leader of the Government in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:55</span>):  Thank you, Senator Kovacic. That question doesn't deserve an answer, Senator Kovacic.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Senator Kovacic, first supplementary?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>59</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </answer>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>59</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Kovacic, Sen Maria</name>
              <name.id>306168</name.id>
              <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
              <party>LP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="306168" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator KOVACIC</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:55</span>):  Oh, I think it does!</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span class="HPS-GeneralIInterjecting">Opposition senators interjecting</span>—</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Senator Kovacic, please resume your seat. Order on my left!</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="16913" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Ayres:</span>
                  </a>  Nasty and grubby and sleazy!</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Minister Ayres, come to order! Senator Kovacic.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="306168" type="MemberContinuation">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator KOVACIC:</span>
                  </a>  Did the Prime Minister advise Minister Catherine King, who signed off on the Marrickville Golf Club's $6 million funding, that he owned a multimillion-dollar investment property right next to the golf club, which was about to receive $6 million in funding?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>59</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>59</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Ayres, Sen Tim</name>
                <name.id>16913</name.id>
                <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>59</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>59</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Kovacic, Sen Maria</name>
                <name.id>306168</name.id>
                <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </continue>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>59</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Farrell, Sen Don</name>
              <name.id>I0N</name.id>
              <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="I0N" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator FARRELL</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for Trade and Tourism, Special Minister of State and Deputy Leader of the Government in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:56</span>):  I don't know the answer to that question, Senator Kovacic, but I shall ask him.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Senator Kovacic, second supplementary?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>59</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </answer>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>59</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Kovacic, Sen Maria</name>
              <name.id>306168</name.id>
              <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
              <party>LP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="306168" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator KOVACIC</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:56</span>):  The Prime Minister personally announced during the 2025 election campaign that his government would give $6 million to the Marrickville Golf Club if they were re-elected. He proudly announced in 2019 that he'd been coming to the club for years and using its facilities. Labor mayor Darcy Byrne last month called Prime Minister Albanese 'Marrickville Golf Club's most famous patron'. Does the Prime Minister honestly expect the Australian people to believe that he didn't know he was an honorary member of that club?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>59</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Farrell, Sen Don</name>
              <name.id>I0N</name.id>
              <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="I0N" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator FARRELL</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for Trade and Tourism, Special Minister of State and Deputy Leader of the Government in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:57</span>):  Governments make promises in the lead-up to elections. That's what the government did in the lead-up to the last election. The Australian people voted for the Labor Party. They voted for Anthony Albanese to continue as the Prime Minister, and, having won the election—having announced the project before the election—the Prime Minister honoured the undertaking that he took, and he introduced it. Can I say this about you, Senator McKenzie: we still haven't had an answer to the sports rorts while you were the sports minister. We still have not had an answer to that, and I don't—</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Minister Farrell, please resume your seat. Senator McKenzie?</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="207825" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator McKenzie:</span>
                  </a>  On a point of order, I think there have been previous rulings, Madam President—can you please draw the minister's attention to those rulings and have him withdraw.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  I'll just engage with the clerk. While I do have silence in the chamber, Senator McKenzie, I would ask you once again to stop the running commentary. In the previous case, where I did ask for a withdrawal to be made, there was an allegation made. That isn't the case on this occasion. There was no allegation made. Please continue, Minister Farrell.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="207825" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator McKenzie:</span>
                  </a>  He pointed at me and said, 'When you were the sports minister'—</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Minister Farrell, please resume your seat. Senator McKenzie, you were constantly interjecting after I called 'order' and after I told you on numerous occasions this afternoon to be quiet or leave the chamber—all of which you ignored. You know very well, as an experienced senator, the minister is quite entitled to take your interjection, which is what he did. So please be quiet. Senator McKenzie, on a point of order.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="207825" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator McKenzie:</span>
                  </a>  On a point of order, Madam President, can you please look at the ruling from former president Ryan.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Sure. Thank you. Minister Farrell.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span style="font-style:italic;">
                  </span>
                  <a href="I0N" type="MemberContinuation">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator FARRELL:</span>
                  </a>  Look, I would welcome it if Senator McKenzie would only answer the questions that were asked of her about the sports rorts— <span style="font-style:italic;">(Time expired)</span></span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  I am advised, Senator McKenzie, in relation to that ruling by Senator Ryan, that it was about a direct allegation. As I've indicated to you, a direct allegation was not made on this occasion. That is my ruling.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>59</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
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            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
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          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>59</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">McKenzie, Sen Bridget</name>
                <name.id>207825</name.id>
                <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
                <party>NATS</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
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            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
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            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>59</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>59</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">McKenzie, Sen Bridget</name>
                <name.id>207825</name.id>
                <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
                <party>NATS</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>59</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>60</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">McKenzie, Sen Bridget</name>
                <name.id>207825</name.id>
                <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
                <party>NATS</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
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          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>60</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>60</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Farrell, Sen Don</name>
                <name.id>I0N</name.id>
                <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
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            <talk.text>
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            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>60</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </answer>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Sovereign Capability</title>
          <page.no>60</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Sovereign Capability</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>60</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">O'Neill, Sen Deborah</name>
              <name.id>140651</name.id>
              <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="140651" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator O'NEILL</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">15:00</span>):  My question is to the Minister for Industry and Innovation, Minister Ayres. The Albanese Labor government has demonstrated time and time again a commitment to a future where we still make things here in Australia. From Tomago to Central Queensland, Mount Isa, Port Pirie, Whyalla and Hobart, we've seen this government backing Australian industry. But securing industry for Australia requires delivering real change that not only meets the needs of today but sets it up for the future. Minister, how is the Albanese Labor government securing a future made in Australia that builds a stronger and more resilient Australia?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>60</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Ayres, Sen Tim</name>
              <name.id>16913</name.id>
              <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="16913" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator AYRES</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for Industry and Innovation and Minister for Science</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">15:01</span>):  Thank you to Senator O'Neill. You are right, Senator O'Neill—Tomago Aluminium, the Boyne smelter in Central Queensland, Mount Isa copper, Phosphate Hill's fertiliser manufacturing facility, Port Pirie's lead facility, the Hobart zinc facility, Whyalla steel—</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="00AOL" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Colbeck:</span>
                  </a>  Fail.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Senator Colbeck, stop the running interjections.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="16913" type="MemberContinuation">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator AYRES:</span>
                  </a>  What you need to do, if you're serious about dealing with Australia's industrial capability, is start approaching these issues through the prism of—</span>
              </p>
              <a href="00AOL" type="GeneralIInterjecting">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span class="HPS-GeneralIInterjecting">Senator Colbeck interjecting</span>—</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Minister Ayres, please resume your seat. Senator Colbeck, I specifically asked you to stop the running interjections, and you simply ignored me, once again being disrespectful to me. If you can't listen in silence, leave the chamber.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="16913" type="MemberContinuation">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator AYRES:</span>
                  </a>  Now, these senior representatives of the parties over here, the Liberals and the Nationals and One Nation, who have spent the week telling lies about what is driven—</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Senator Ayres, you need to withdraw that.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="16913" type="MemberContinuation">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator AYRES:</span>
                  </a>  I withdraw—deliberate falsehoods constructed for political purposes to try and drive an approach that would cause the closure of each of these facilities.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Now, President, Senator Canavan went out earlier this week—after hundreds of Australian steelworkers had spent month after month after month in a gutsy, heroic effort to maintain a coal-fired blast furnace that had been driven into the ground by its previous owner—and said it was about energy costs. Senator Canavan went out and said it was about the safeguard mechanism. That is a deliberate falsehood. It is utterly disrespectful to those proud outback Australians, who actually get up out of bed and go to work, well before Senator Canavan ever breaks a sweat, and actually make a contribution themselves. If you make that claim, either you're wilfully wrong or you're deliberately misrepresenting the position for the narrowest, shallowest partisan purposes, using blue-collar workers as a prop for your sordid political campaign.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Senator Ayres, when I asked you to withdraw, you did, and I thank you for that. But you immediately went on to use the word 'deliberate' in front of 'falsehoods', which is an imputation. You did it twice. I would ask you to withdraw it, please.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="16913" type="MemberContinuation">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator AYRES:</span>
                  </a>  I withdraw.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Thank you. Senator O'Neill, first supplementary?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>60</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Colbeck, Sen Richard</name>
                <name.id>00AOL</name.id>
                <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
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            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
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          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>60</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>60</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Ayres, Sen Tim</name>
                <name.id>16913</name.id>
                <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>60</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Senator Colbeck interjecting—</name>
                <name.id />
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
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            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
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          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>60</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>60</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Ayres, Sen Tim</name>
                <name.id>16913</name.id>
                <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>60</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>60</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Ayres, Sen Tim</name>
                <name.id>16913</name.id>
                <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>60</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>60</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Ayres, Sen Tim</name>
                <name.id>16913</name.id>
                <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>60</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </answer>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>60</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">O'Neill, Sen Deborah</name>
              <name.id>140651</name.id>
              <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="140651" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator O'NEILL</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">15:04</span>):  Thank you, Minister, for that great defence of hardworking Australian people. The Albanese Labor government has a plan to deliver real change for Australian industry and manufacturing. Minister, how is government helping Australian industry to invest and to grow?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>60</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Ayres, Sen Tim</name>
              <name.id>16913</name.id>
              <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="16913" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator AYRES</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for Industry and Innovation and Minister for Science</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">15:04</span>):  The first step is telling the truth and not playing interference and being a lapdog for British billionaires who've let Australians down, driven our facilities into the ground and caused immense pain and suffering for that community. The problem for Senator Canavan and One Nation is they argue about who's lapdog they want to be.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Minister Ayres, I ask you to direct your comments to me as the chair. And, whilst you didn't name people, it's very clear who you're talking about, so I also ask you to withdraw that comment.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="16913" type="MemberContinuation">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator AYRES:</span>
                  </a>  I withdraw. I'm angry about this, President, because when—</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span class="HPS-GeneralIInterjecting">Opposition senators interjecting</span>—</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Senator Ayres that's a debating point. Resume your seat. Those on my left once again! Senator McKenzie and Senator Canavan, I've invited you three times now to leave the chamber. As you've chosen to stay in here, my ruling is that you sit in silence. Minister Ayres.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="16913" type="MemberContinuation">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator AYRES:</span>
                  </a>  As I was saying, I am angry about this because I'm on the side of Australians who are fighting for the future of manufacturing. I'm on the side of telling the truth, analysing the problem properly—</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="39801" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Chisholm:</span>
                  </a>  On a point of order, they didn't wait five seconds, President, before they started interjecting again. I'm very interested in this answer and I can barely hear even though I'm right next to the minister.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  As I'm sure you're aware, I'm trying my very best—Senator Canavan, I have not come to you. I'm trying my very best to get the chamber to be silent. I think at this moment that's not a battle that I'm winning. Senator Canavan.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="245212" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Canavan:</span>
                  </a>  On a separate point of order, it might help the chamber if the minister's comments are made through the chair, according to the standing orders. That would help.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  And it would greatly assist the chamber if you were quiet. I have directed Minister Ayres to address the chair, and I'll remind him again.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="16913" type="MemberContinuation">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator AYRES:</span>
                  </a>  This deliberate approach continues with the approach that One Nation and the Nationals have taken in the Hunter over the future of the Tomago Aluminium facility. The approach championed by Senator Canavan would lead to the closure tomorrow of the Tomago Aluminium facility. So he's okay with the partisan political campaigns, but he couldn't break a sweat for blue-collar workers.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Senator O'Neill, second supplementary?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>61</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>61</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Ayres, Sen Tim</name>
                <name.id>16913</name.id>
                <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>61</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>61</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Ayres, Sen Tim</name>
                <name.id>16913</name.id>
                <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>61</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Chisholm, Sen Anthony</name>
                <name.id>39801</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>61</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>61</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Canavan, Sen Matthew</name>
                <name.id>245212</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>NATS</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>61</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>61</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Ayres, Sen Tim</name>
                <name.id>16913</name.id>
                <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>61</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </answer>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>61</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">O'Neill, Sen Deborah</name>
              <name.id>140651</name.id>
              <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="140651" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator O'NEILL</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">15:07</span>):  The Albanese Labor government is delivering on its plan for the future, building a new energy system and helping industry—</span>
              </p>
              <a href="207825" type="GeneralIInterjecting">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span class="HPS-GeneralIInterjecting">Senator McKenzie interjecting</span>—</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Senator McKenzie! I don't know—perhaps you can assist. Thank you.</span>
              </p>
              <a href="140651" type="GeneralIInterjecting">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span class="HPS-GeneralIInterjecting">Senator O'Neill interjecting</span>—</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Senator O'Neill, it does not need an interjection from you. It's easier for me to manage the chamber if everyone's quiet, including you. Please continue your question.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="140651" type="MemberContinuation">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator O'NEILL:</span>
                  </a>  The Albanese Labor government is delivering on its plan for the future, building a new energy system and helping industry invest so that Australia can weather a more difficult global trading environment. I'm delighted I'll be able to hear the answer now, Minister. What are the risks to this approach?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>61</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Senator McKenzie interjecting—</name>
                <name.id />
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>61</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>61</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Senator O'Neill interjecting—</name>
                <name.id />
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>61</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>61</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">O'Neill, Sen Deborah</name>
                <name.id>140651</name.id>
                <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </continue>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>61</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Ayres, Sen Tim</name>
              <name.id>16913</name.id>
              <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="16913" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator AYRES</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for Industry and Innovation and Minister for Science</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">15:08</span>):  The risk is, if you don't take a fair dinkum approach and you're not honest about the problems that confront these businesses, then you can't be part of the solution. We have delivered for those heavy-industry facilities. We've delivered a 43 per cent increase in manufacturing exports and $56 billion worth of additional exports, and manufacturing investment is up by 35 per cent. Much of that can be credited to the work of our very fine Minister for Trade and Tourism over here. There are 7,000 more manufacturing firms in Australia than when the Albanese government came to office. The manufacturing share of GDP is up by 22 per cent. If you actually break a sweat and work on behalf of Australians and work with them, instead of yelling dishonest slogans at them, you make real progress and deliver real change in the outer suburbs and the industrial suburbs that used to be able to count on some of these characters for some fair dinkum support. <span style="font-style:italic;">(Time expired)</span></span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="I0N" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Farrell:</span>
                  </a>  President, I ask that further questions be placed on the <span style="font-style:italic;">Notice Paper</span>.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>61</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Farrell, Sen Don</name>
                <name.id>I0N</name.id>
                <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </answer>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>QUESTIONS TO THE PRESIDENT</title>
        <page.no>61</page.no>
        <type>QUESTIONS TO THE PRESIDENT</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <debate.text>
        <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
          <p class="HPS-Debate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Debate">QUESTIONS TO THE PRESIDENT</span>
          </p>
        </body>
      </debate.text>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Parliamentary Standards</title>
          <page.no>61</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Parliamentary Standards</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>61</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Cash, Sen Michaelia</name>
              <name.id>I0M</name.id>
              <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
              <party>LP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="I0M" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CASH</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Western Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Leader of the Opposition in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">15:09</span>):  by leave—President, I wish to draw your attention to remarks made by Senator Sheldon during two-minute statements and asked at the <span style="font-style:italic;">Hansard</span> be reviewed in the context of standing order 193(3). I do understand—I caught the end of it as well—that you weren't present for the majority of his contribution, but I have now had the opportunity to review the captions, and I am concerned about the content, which I will not repeat. I would ask you to review. The opposition is of the view that remarks appear capable of constituting personal reflections or imputations of improper motives against a member of the other House. I therefore ask that the remarks be reviewed, and, if you determine that they do offend standing order 193(3) rules of debate, that the relevant words be required to be withdrawn.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Thank you, Senator Cash. I did respond at the time that inoffensive remarks need to be dealt with in the chamber, but I will go and review the tape.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>62</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE: TAKE NOTE OF ANSWERS</title>
        <page.no>62</page.no>
        <type>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE: TAKE NOTE OF ANSWERS</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <debate.text>
        <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
          <p class="HPS-Debate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Debate">QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE: TAKE NOTE OF ANSWERS</span>
          </p>
        </body>
      </debate.text>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Answers to Questions</title>
          <page.no>62</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Answers to Questions</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>62</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Smith, Sen Dean</name>
              <name.id>241710</name.id>
              <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
              <party>LP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="241710" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator DEAN SMITH</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Western Australia</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">15:11</span>):  I move:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">That the Senate take note of the answers given by ministers to questions without notice asked by Opposition senators today.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Australians only have to wait another 324 days until the next election, on 7 August 2027. That is the first possible date for the next federal election. It's just 324 days of waiting for Australian voters until they get an opportunity to cast a verdict on the performance of this Labor government. If the Australian Labor Party was a car, it would be called a jalopy or a clunker. The wheels are falling off, the rain is getting in, the equipment is faulty, and the engine can't be relied upon. This has been a bad week for the Labor government. Labor luminary Bill Kelty had some very insightful things to say about the performance of the Labor prime minister and the Labor treasurer, and I'll come to them in a moment. The Prime Minister's colleagues and the Treasurer's colleagues have been backgrounding anonymously, as you'd expect, about their performance on the economy. I'll come back to that. Of course, today we had a very, very necessary backdown by the Labor Party, by the Labor government, in regard to a very, very poor, heartless, harmful policy decision that would have hurt veterans and their families, and the coalition welcomes the decision by the government today to back down on its plan to hurt veterans with a $5,000 cap on their ability to access allied health services.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Then we had a very half-hearted defence by Senator McAllister, representing the Minister for Health and Ageing, trying to defend the Labor government's very, very poor policy decision to hurt 1.3 million pensioners by abandoning the private health insurance rebate that is available to people over the age of 65. My great prediction is that that is now the next battleground, having successfully secured the government's decision to back down on its harmful, hurtful treatment of veterans and their families. On that particular point, I want to make this observation. It is powerful when Independent senators work with Greens senators and work with coalition senators, coming to parliament, amplifying the concerns and the voices of veterans and their families, forcing the government to a very significant rethink. I remind you that on every occasion in this Senate that Labor senators had to stand with coalition and independent and Greens senators against this policy initiative, they chose to vote for—</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="30484" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Senator Smith. Please resume your seat. Senator O'Neill?</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="140651" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator O'Neill:</span>
                  </a>  I have a point of order. Perhaps you could clarify for me which question it is that Senator Smith is giving his speech to, because there were no questions about these matters today.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="30484" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Normally we do give a fair bit of latitude in these remarks. However, I will ask you to make sure you are relating your comments to a particular question, Senator Smith. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="241710" type="MemberContinuation">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator DEAN SMITH:</span>
                  </a>  Senator, O'Neill, perhaps you were late for question time because the first question time today was from Senator Gatenby, the new senator from Tasmania, on the private health insurance rebate. You either weren't here or you weren't paying attention. Really! This is why my grand prediction is that the next battleground that will force the Labor Party into a significant policy retreat is its plans to slug 1.3 million pensioners by abandoning the private health insurance rebate that they're currently entitled to. That is a plan that will hurt pensioners and add older people to state hospital waiting lists. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">It is unfair. It is unmodeled. It's another demonstration how the Labor Party does not care for people in our community. On every occasion in this Senate people like Senator O'Neill, Senator Polley, Senator Stewart—they all voted to retain Labor's hurtful, harmful $5,000 cap on allied health support services for veterans and their families. How outrageous. There just 324 days until the next election. With the brief minutes available to me, let me just remind people what Bill Kelty had to say about Labor at the moment. He said that it is ridiculous that the Treasurer carries on the way he does with his economic policies. <span style="font-style:italic;">(Time expired)</span></span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>62</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Brockman, Sen Slade (The DEPUTY PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>30484</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>62</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">O'Neill, Sen Deborah</name>
                <name.id>140651</name.id>
                <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>62</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Brockman, Sen Slade (The DEPUTY PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>30484</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>62</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Smith, Sen Dean</name>
                <name.id>241710</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </continue>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>62</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">O'Neill, Sen Deborah</name>
              <name.id>140651</name.id>
              <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="140651" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator O'NEILL</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">15:16</span>):  I rise to make a contribution with regard to the question that was asked about migration reforms, a very important announcement today. Australians like me—decent, law-abiding Australians—understand that a visa is an important document. I say this very clearly. If you want to come to Australia temporarily, you should apply for a temporary visa. If you want to be here permanently, you should apply for a permanent visa. If you are not entitled to a visa or your visa runs out, you should leave. This is a very simple proposition. This is what ordinary, decent Australian citizens, which includes migrants from all around the world who play by the rules and who accept the rule of law in this country, all believe. It's not an unreasonable ask. This is the important announcement that has been made today to clarify that position. We are making changes to give us more control over who arrives, who stays and who leaves. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Australia is indeed a great multicultural nation, and I see, from people in the chamber here, that many of you will be sharing with me in the celebration of the diversity that gives us incredible advantages and trading right across the world. Multiculturalism isn't our problem, but abuse of these visas by people who have tried to take a loan of the goodness of Australian people is something we need to change. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">We're making changes to Working Holiday Maker, and the reason that that has to happen is to make sure that it is sustainable and that the support that's needed in regional Australia is able to be delivered by people who are staying within the rules, not the ones who are abusing their visa and who should leave the country because they no longer have a right to be here. Australia supports the Working Holiday Maker program, but it needs to be managed in a fair way to support our economy and to provide good experiences for people in Australia. It should not be pitting people in regional Australia against people in the cities. We need people to come in and help us, to fulfil the jobs that we have, and pitting one Australian against another, pitting one part of the country against another, is a technique we're seeing from the Liberal-National Party joined in by One Nation. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">The new ballot arrangements that have been announced are going to improve the fairness, the transparency and the sustainability of visa allocation processes where there's more demand than there are places. These reforms will help ensure that the program continues to meet genuine labour market needs to support both regional Australia and businesses in the city that need this labour. We need to undertake these changes to reduce the risk of worker exploitation and to contribute to sustainable migration outcomes.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Many of those who come to Australia on a student visa come here for the duration of their course. They complete their studies and then they depart. This is the expectation when a student visa is granted. But unfortunately we've seen the prevalence of this practice of visa hopping among people on student visas. They've created a cohort of what you could call 'permanent temporary migrants'. It's not sustainable. They hop from one visa to the next to try to stay in Australia. You can understand why they want to stay, but they need to understand that if you are not entitled to a visa or your visa runs out then you should leave. Today we made that very clear, and the government will continue to protect the interests of Australia and our economy. <span style="font-style:italic;">(Time expired)</span></span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>63</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Collins, Sen Jessica</name>
              <name.id>297964</name.id>
              <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
              <party>LP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="297964" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator COLLINS</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Deputy Opposition Whip in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">15:20</span>):  There are a few things I've heard today from the government, a few key phrases, about the migration problem. We just heard, 'Give us more control.' That's because Labor has lost control of the borders, and it's taken them four years to work out that they've lost control of the borders. We heard from Senator Farrell today that there's been a 47 per cent drop in NOM. Imagine how big it was before, if we still have mass migration. Imagine how big it was before, if we had a 47 per cent drop. They wouldn't give us that number. They gave us the 47 per cent, but they wouldn't give us the number it came down from. What do we hear? 'It's not sustainable.' I've heard that several times this afternoon. The Labor government is finally admitting that their migration program is not sustainable.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">So of course they've come out today at the Press Club to say, 'We need more control,' and more control over temporary migration in particular. I'll tell you what that impact is going to have in the regions. They have not consulted with the farmers, who are already indicating that they have a shortage in their workforce and that the prices of food, fruit and vegetables may go up by Christmas time because they do not have the workforce they need to get that fruit and vegetables to the cities. And here we have the Labor government today saying they're going to cap working holiday-maker visas, which provide a huge part of the numbers we need out in those regions. But of course classic Labor: never consulting, making the decision first. Then they come out and hear what a stuff-up they've made.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">There are loopholes in the migration system. That is absolutely correct. Almost three years ago the government articulated that there is a problem called 'permanent temporariness', where people come in on a temporary visa and cycle around on different visas trying to get permanent residency. In the meantime, we have a housing shortage, and they continue to bring more people in. We have inflation. We have a trifecta of economic problems here in Australia. And it's taken them four years to work it out. Well, here we are.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">I want to move on to the private health insurance pensioner tax. The government are going to axe the additional private health insurance rebate for over-65s. That's going to be a huge hit on our older Australians. And I want to share something my colleague Phil Thompson, the shadow minister for defence personnel, said today. He realised that with the private health insurance tax that they're putting on older Australians—linked with what they're doing to the veterans at the moment with their allied health cap—they are taxing the people who built this country and the people who defended this country, defended the freedom of this country for us and our families. What  contempt they are showing for the Australian people—what contempt! There is of course the impact, the pressure, that is going to put on our hospitals and our services. The wait lists are only going to get longer. But of course the Labor government did not ask the Australian people. They make decisions first and work out later that it is a bad idea. Well, we are here to tell them that they got it wrong again.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Private Health Insurance</title>
          <page.no>64</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Private Health Insurance</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>64</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Polley, Sen Helen</name>
              <name.id>e5x</name.id>
              <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="e5x" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator POLLEY</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Tasmania</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">15:25</span>):  The phrase, 'the people who built this country'—it's interesting that was used today, yet again trying to rewrite history around migration and the levels of migration that we inherited when we came to government. They forget very conveniently that they were in government for 10 years. Well, the Australian people have not forgotten that. But I don't want to talk about migration. My colleague, I think, rebutted the nonsense that's been spruiked not only in this chamber today, in the other place, but also through the media.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">I want to take the question in relation to health and private health insurance. It's all very catchy to use the word 'tax'. The reality is the government has decided that, in the interest of older Australians and particularly those in aged care, where the numbers are continuing to grow, the additional benefits that some older Australians get with private health insurance should be brought back to the same level as that of everyone else who qualifies for that support. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">But it's important to note, in the 10 years that they were in government, what we saw them do and contribute to older Australians. For those who were in aged care, in residential aged care, and those who were still living at home waiting for support what we saw was our Liberal-National government call a royal commission into their own failings. In the 10 years that they were in government, they had six failed ministers in those 10 years. And what happened? They had to call a royal commission into their own failings. What was that royal commission's finding? It was a report titled <span style="font-style:italic;">Neglect</span>. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Older Australians in residential care—these are the same people who built the country—were fed little party pies and sausage rolls. How many times? How many older Australians were found to have been dehydrated and starving? How many older Australians died during the pandemic because aged-care workers' wages were so low that they had to go from one aged-care facility to another, transferring the pandemic and the disease—and older Australians were dying.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">When you come into this chamber and you use the phrases 'the old people', and 'the people who built this country', you ought to know the history of what your government did and the neglect that they have demonstrated in aged care alone. That's without the money that was ripped out when they used aged care as a cash cow, as a teller machine. And what about when Mr Abbott, the former prime minister and head of the Liberal government, gutted health by $1 billion? </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Then we have the Tasmanian senator talking about the backlog of people in the hospitals in Tasmania. What about the fact that it's a Liberal state government, and the Launceston General Hospital has twice in less than two weeks said, 'No. Unless you're critical and you're about to die, we can't take you'? That is the Liberals looking after older Australians. That is the Liberals looking after Australians' health. No thank you! <span style="font-style:italic;">(Time expired)</span></span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Migration</title>
          <page.no>64</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Migration</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>64</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Cadell, Sen Ross</name>
              <name.id>300134</name.id>
              <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
              <party>NATS</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="300134" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CADELL</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Nationals Whip in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">15:29</span>):  That word salad was as coherent about private health insurance as anything I've ever heard. It's like a year 7 artistic dance version of private health insurance, that response. It was quite the thing. I want to go back to the issue of the day. We're talking about immigration. We heard the great immigration policy apparently, presented to the Press Club today by the Labor Party, but they didn't want to really get into it. They didn't want to go anywhere near the detail. They're out there saying, 'We're cutting these immigration numbers. We're going out there and we're fixing these numbers. We're going to pull this down.' They're taking these steps just to actually reach the target that they set for themselves. They're not pulling anything down. They're actually saying, 'We've been so incompetent for the rest of our time. We've got to do all these changes just to do what we'd said we'd do,' which is quite odd. You sit there and you say: 'There's our target. This is what we're going to do.' Well, they're not even close to it. They cut these numbers—let's get this reality on target here. Pre COVID, they talk about this drop from a peak. Guess what? After COVID, a lot of people wanted to come home. People that have not been able to come here for a couple of years couldn't get here. There was a peak after COVID of people coming to Australia. I don't blame them. But that was one year.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">If you go the history of immigration to Australia pre COVID, it was roughly 190,000 people per year. That was number—198,000 per year. What has it been since Labor? Almost 400,000. It has been 398,000 people per year, double the amount which, historically this century, has been coming here, and they've set a target, and they can't even reach it, so they go, 'Look at these big changes. It's actually going to fix up the mistakes we've done,' and where are they doing it? They're doing it in all the wrong places. They're doing it on working holiday visas. Hear that working bit? The people that come here to do things, the working holiday visas, not the people that are coming here as the hangers on, not the leaners, not the leeches, not the bludgers—they're actually hitting the workers who want to come here and make a difference.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Here are the numbers. Year 2 working holiday visas are now a ballot. Imagine you're travelling with your partner or with your friend. One of you gets one, and one doesn't. Who knows what happens there. All the people—when you go to country pubs, who cooks your schnitty? Who pulls your beer? Who works in the fields? Who pulls these things in? These people that are important, because there's a generally—I won't say always—a regional compact to this. It's down to 45,000 from 57,000—a 12K cut in year 2. In year 3, it's down to 5,000 from 31,000. That is almost an 80 per cent cut there. That's what we're talking about here. They are taking these people away, and there is a real chance, because of your actions—the Farmers' Federation said today that we may have a food shortage because of the processing delays in getting these people in. If you can't process these people's visas to come here to go to regional areas, to pick the fruit, to bring in the crops and to help out the way they always have, we may not be able to have enough food come Christmas, because you're not doing your job right and you say to these people 'we're going to cut you because it's easy'. We're going to cut the builders, not the bludgers. We are going to cut the lifters, not the leeches. What a stupid policy that is.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">We heard the answers today about how they're fixing some wrong, about how they're going to go and do this and fix some wrong. They are just merely trying to correct their own rubbish policies that have failed Australia, seeing double the immigration contact from the rest of this century since they have been in. That is not governing. That is an exercise in butt covering, and this needs to be better. This needs to have a system done. We need to bring in the people that our people need, not who want to come here just for the free ride.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Question agreed to.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Migration</title>
          <page.no>65</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Migration</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>65</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Shoebridge, Sen David</name>
              <name.id>169119</name.id>
              <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
              <party>AG</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="169119" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator SHOEBRIDGE</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">15:33</span>):  I move:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">That the Senate take note of the answer given by Minister representing the Minister for Immigration and Citizenship (Senator Watt) to a question without notice asked by Senator Waters relating to migration.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Labor, today, announced a policy to build new immigration jails and to fund hundreds of additional uniformed Border Force officers to go knocking on people's doors, taking them away and putting them in the immigration jails run by a US private jail corporation. Then they come in here, and, when the Greens ask them a question about their lurch to the right on immigration, the minister steps up and says, 'I knew the Greens were going to compare Labor's policy to ICE and to Trump's policy in ICE.' Of course Labor knew because, literally, what Labor is doing here is picking up the Trump ICE playbook. They said loudly and proudly at the at the Press Club that Labor is going to reopen immigration detentions and build new immigration jails. We already know that Labor is contracting for all of its existing immigration jails with a US multinational bottom-feeder private jail corporation which is renowned for corrupting governments and abusing the rights of people in detention. That's who Labor already have a contract with for the existing prison system. Now they're getting that corporate mate of Trump to run new expanded prison jails here, and they're funding the prison a new uniformed Border Force team to go and knock on doors in suburban Australia and in towns across this country in the quiet of the night to put people in Labor's new immigration jails. And they wonder why we compare them to ICE. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">This is extraordinary. This is what Labor has sunk to—actively reheating Tony Abbott's policies, only this time with a little mean twist of Donald Trump. If Labor doesn't want these policies compared to ICE, they shouldn't behave like ICE. If you don't want to be compared to Donald Trump, don't take his policies and apply them, funding them with public money. We know how to have a fast, effective and fair immigration program. It starts with processing substantive visas. It means fully funding Home Affairs to get over the backlogs, funding trusted legal bodies to assist with migration applications, not more jails. <span style="font-style:italic;">(Time expired)</span></span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>65</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Faruqi, Sen Mehreen</name>
              <name.id>250362</name.id>
              <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
              <party>AG</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="250362" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator FARUQI</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Deputy Leader of the Australian Greens</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">15:35</span>):  Labor, the Liberals and One Nation have made migrants the bogeyman. Migrants are not the problem. Amy Remeikis put it aptly when she wrote that the 'fuss about migrants is just a painful hot-button topic looking for an issue'. That's how back-to-front this whole debate is. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Labor's changes today won't build a single new public home. They won't bring down the price of groceries. They won't bring down rent. They won't make Australia a fairer or better place to live in. But what they will do is this: they will hurt people, they will separate families, they will punish students, they will add to the fear and uncertainty that so many people on temporary visas face, they will make it harder for people to build a life here, and they will compound the racism and hate that migrants in this country are facing every single day. This is the Albanese Labor government's playbook: punish people with the least power so they never have to confront those with the most; pander to Pauline Hanson and the far right by punching down on migrants or disabled people—or people on Centrelink for that matter. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">These changes will see new immigration jails run by the same multinational corporations overseeing human rights abuses here and abroad. They will see families ripped apart and people locked up. If Minister Burke doesn't want us drawing comparisons with ICE then he should stop introducing ICE-like policies. Across this country, we are seeing relentless efforts to divide and distract us. While politicians and the media point the finger at migrants, those who are destroying the planet for profit are gleefully rubbing their hands together. As a migrant myself, I say to the migrant communities in Australia and to the international students: the Greens have your back, and we will not let these heartless politicians reduce our lives to mere numbers.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Question agreed to. </span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Migration</title>
          <page.no>66</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Migration</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>66</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Whitten, Sen Tyron</name>
              <name.id>317026</name.id>
              <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
              <party>ON</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="317026" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator WHITTEN</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Western Australia</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">15:38</span>):  I move:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">That the Senate take note of the answer given by the Minister for the Environment and Water (Senator Watt) to a question without notice I asked today relating to migration.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Apologies, Minister Watt, I'll use fewer numbers next time. I know percentages can be hard. Labor's immigration plan, if you can call it that, is to aim for twice the average immigration rate of other developed nations, and this is their version of a cut. According to the latest available data from 2024-25, Australia has been adding 1.0 per cent to its population each year. That's over four times the rate of the UK, France, New Zealand or Germany. It's nine times the rate of the US. We can't even be compared to Canada, because they are running negative migration—the same negative net migration One Nation will deliver over three years. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">While we get Australia's immigration system under control, Labor will sit across the chamber and screech about the doom that this will bring to the economy. What is truly dooming the economy is the Labor government. Whilst running negative migration, Canada has massively outperformed Australia on per capita GDP. Australia's has gone backwards since Canada started cutting immigration, while Canada's has jumped 1.3 per cent. Canadians are benefiting from massive cuts to migration. They are more productive per person. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">This Labor government hates talking about the metrics that matter. They hate talking about 'per capita' because they know that their policies are smashing everyday Australians. They know that Australians are getting poorer under their watch and standards of living are sliding backwards. Even so, they want to add a million more people over four years—that's if they hit their target, for once, which they won't. While everyday Australians get poorer, while rents skyrocket and while inflation continues to bite, this Labor government pours more people in so they can say, 'The economy is growing.' </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">What good is avoiding a technical recession from contracting headline GDP if people can't afford their groceries, if they can't get a roof over their heads? This government has killed the economy. They've become addicted to mass immigration to mask their incompetence. They continue to run at over four times the rate of comparable countries because, if they stop now, the economic vandalism will be laid bare. Labor are in damage control and are incapable of admitting their mistakes. They won't change. They can't change. One Nation has a plan that puts the prosperity of Australians first. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Question agreed to.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>66</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <debate.text>
        <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
          <p class="HPS-Debate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Debate">COMMITTEES</span>
          </p>
        </body>
      </debate.text>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Economics Legislation Committee</title>
          <page.no>66</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <a href="30" type="Committee">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Economics Legislation Committee</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>Additional Information</title>
            <page.no>66</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Additional Information</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>66</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Dolega, Sen Josh</name>
                <name.id>316935</name.id>
                <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="316935" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator DOLEGA</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Tasmania</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">15:40</span>):  On behalf of the chair of the Economics Legislation Committee, Senator Darmanin, I present additional information received by the committee as listed at item 16 on today's order of business. </span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
        </subdebate.2>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Public Accounts and Audit Joint Committee</title>
          <page.no>66</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <a href="73" type="Committee">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Public Accounts and Audit Joint Committee</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>Report</title>
            <page.no>66</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Report</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>66</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Dolega, Sen Josh</name>
                <name.id>316935</name.id>
                <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="316935" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator DOLEGA</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Tasmania</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">15:41</span>):  I present the 516th and 517th reports of the Joint Committee of Public Accounts and Audit, together with executive minutes relating to other reports of the committee. </span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
        </subdebate.2>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Legal and Constitutional Affairs References Committee</title>
          <page.no>66</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <a href="43" type="Committee">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Legal and Constitutional Affairs References Committee</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>Report</title>
            <page.no>66</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Report</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>66</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Blyth, Sen Leah</name>
                <name.id>315170</name.id>
                <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="315170" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator BLYTH</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">15:41</span>):  I present the report of the Legal and Constitutional Affairs References Committee on the MRH-90 Taipan helicopter incident, together with accompanying documents. I move:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">That the Senate take note of the report.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">Inquiry into MRH-90 Taipan Helicopter incident</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I begin by acknowledging the servicemen who lost their lives on the evening of 28 June 2023—Captain Danniel Lyon, Lieutenant Maxwell Nugent, Warrant Officer Class Two Joseph Laycock and Corporal Alexander Naggs. What happened to them was a tragedy. I pay tribute to their service, and they should never be forgotten.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I further thank the families of the servicemen who lost their lives for their courage in providing evidence to this inquiry.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Thank you also to my fellow committee members, the committee secretariat and all those who participated in this inquiry, mindful of the difficult and deeply sensitive nature of this inquiry.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">Background</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">This was an inquiry into the tragic accident of the MRH-90 Taipan helicopter, callsign Bushman 83, while conducting a night-time training exercise during Exercise Talisman Sabre.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Importantly, the actions of the crew of Bushman 83 were not called into question. Retired Majors David Lamb and Ian Wilson, who are both highly experienced pilots, told the committee that the environment the pilot was operating in would challenge even the best pilot on the planet to recover.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The MRH-90 helicopter project had well-documented and reported issues.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Following the accident, the MRH-90 helicopter was decommissioned.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">In conducting this inquiry, the committee sought to comprehend the regulatory framework that is designed to provide for the safety of military aviation operations. This is a comprehensive and complex regulatory area that involves:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Bullet" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Bullet">The processes required under the Defence Aviation Safety Regulation (DASR).</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Bullet" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Bullet">The role of the Defence Aviation Safety Authority.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Bullet" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Bullet">The role of the Army Aviation Test and Evaluation Service (AATES), which is the Army's only DASR-authorised flight test organisation; and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Bullet" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Bullet">Safety requirements and obligations under the Work Health and Safety Act 2011<span style="font-style:italic;"></span>and associated regulations.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">While this is a complex web of regulation, complexity must not be used to obscure safety expectations and accountabilities.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">TopOwl Helmet</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">This inquiry found that Defence could not articulate what authorised process was used, under the Defence Aviation Safety Regulation, to approve the TopOwl helmet mounted sight display version 5.10 into service.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">As the committee discovered, AATES concluded that version 5.10 of the TopOwl helmet represented an unacceptable risk to flight safety as it implied a very high risk of pilot disorientation if used in poor conditions and the likely consequence was that disorientation at low levels could lead to multiple fatalities.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The fundamental concern with version 5.10 was that the altitude information presented was consistent with cockpit displays when the pilot was looking forward but reversed pitch and roll information when the pilot looked to the side.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">This is particularly challenging for pilots when they are operating in a situation where they do not have full vision of the horizon and are more reliant on the symbology provided by the TopOwl helmet.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">While Defence told the committee it had developed a range of procedures that were incorporated into training and guidance documents, the committee received contrary evidence that the gravity of the software's defects had not been adequately communicated to the aircrew.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">No formal documentation outlining Defence's risk mitigation strategy to attempt to address the flight test concerns, and which are a requirement under workplace health and safety legislation, were provided to the committee.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">In light of this evidence, the committee has made several recommendations, including:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Bullet" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Bullet">that the Defence Aviation Safety Authority review Army aviation's compliance with Defence aviation safety regulations, including the processes and adherence to processes for the testing, evaluation and approval of capability and modification.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Bullet" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Bullet">that Defence consider whether amendment is required to the Defence aviation safety regulations to ensure that foreign certifications for major modifications cannot be relied upon to approve modifications for service.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The committee has recommended that the government establish an independent review of the DFSB investigation into this accident.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The committee has also made a range of recommendations relating to the management of fatigue and building a safety culture within the Australian Defence Force. This includes a review of the Army's aviation fatigue risk management procedures and promoting safer reporting pathways.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Recommendations have also been made regarding death and bereavement support for the families of ADF personnel.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The hardest part of this inquiry was hearing from the families of those who lost their lives.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I want to take the time now to read to the Senate some of their words as they reflected on their son, their husband, their partner and their brother.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">In his testimony, Daniel Nugent, father of Lieutenant Nugent, stated that:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Max decided in year 11 that he wanted to become an Army officer. He began that journey in 2018 as a 19-year-old at the Royal Military College. By 21, he was an Army officer training to become a pilot. By 24, he had achieved his goal, becoming a special operations pilot with the 6th Aviation Regiment. On 28 July, he was exactly where he wanted to be, doing his job alongside his mates.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Chadine Whyte, Lieutenant Nugent's partner, said:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">My hope moving forward is that institutions learn from Max and that they lead with the same integrity he demanded of himself. Anything less is an insult to his life and memory and to those who remain in service.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Lieutenant Nugent's sister, Samantha, told the committee:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">If Max wasn't in the Army, he would have been at home with us. Just before he left to go to Talisman Sabre, we were planning our joint birthday dinner, to spend it as a family.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Sarah Loft, the partner of Corporal Naggs, said:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">He was a proud soldier. One of the first things that we did together was the dawn service in the driveway, because it was the start of COVID. I had said to him, 'Hey, I'm doing the dawn service in the driveway tomorrow.' He goes, 'Well, yes, I will be, too.' We were two of only a few in the street in Toowoomba, freezing, listening to the neighbours' radio. The guy bled green.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">David Naggs, father of Corporal Naggs, told the committee that he wasn't even informed by Defence that his son was missing. He said:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">It got in my head that Alex was never coming home again when I was watching a Broncos and Cowboys football game on the telly the following Saturday. They had a minute's silence at the ground, and there was Alex's picture on the scoreboard with the rest of the boys. I thought: 'Wow. Okay.' And that's a hit, because there was no-one in uniform that came to the door.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Caitland Lyon, widow of Captain Lyon, stated:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Dan was 32 years old. He was our children's daddy. He was the light and laughter of our home. He trusted that the organisation that he served would keep him safe. That trust was catastrophically betrayed.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I encourage all senators to read or watch the testimony from the families of the victims, and I thank them for their strength. I again want to thank all of those who supported the work of the committee and provided evidence to the inquiry. May we never forget those who tragically perished: Captain Danniel Lyon, Lieutenant Maxwell Nugent, Warrant Officer Class 2 Joseph Laycock and Corporal Alexander Naggs.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I seek leave to continue my remarks later.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Leave granted.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>68</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Shoebridge, Sen David</name>
                <name.id>169119</name.id>
                <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                <party>AG</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="169119" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator SHOEBRIDGE</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">15:50</span>):  I'd like to associate myself with the chair's remarks and comments. I won't repeat the detail of this report, but I will commend the report and the thoroughness of the report to all senators who are concerned about ensuring that defence personnel, as far as possible, are kept safe, respected and protected when they go about their work and their duties.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">This was a pretty tough inquiry to sit on. It was tough to come to terms with the complexity of the material, but I think the hardest thing was to hear from the families of the four defence personnel who lost their lives on the night of 28 July in 2023. I'll say their names: Captain Danniel Lyon, Lieutenant Maxwell Nugent, Warrant Officer Class 2 Joseph Laycock and Corporal Alexander Naggs. They all lost their lives instantly when the Taipan helicopter they were in crashed at speed, on a dark night in a dangerous exercise, into the waters off the Whitsundays in Queensland.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">There had been so many warnings about the dangers, particularly of what was happening that night. A very loud warning had been delivered in March of 2023, when 10 ADF personnel, including special forces soldiers who were hanging off the back of a Taipan helicopter on a rope ladder, were forced to ditch into Jervis Bay. Eyewitnesses said they saw sparks at the top of the rotor blades and an explosion before the helicopter went, in a somewhat controlled emergency ditch, into Jervis Bay. The special forces team, who were hanging off the back on their rope ladder, came within a whisker of losing their lives and being dragged under and killed. That was in March of 2023.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">It turns out that, in the 12 months before and the 12 months that followed—throughout that whole period and, indeed, even before that—a whole series of people inside Defence and Army Aviation, who are the experts that you rely upon to keep platforms and any additions on platforms safe, had been ringing alarm bells with Defence about the Taipan helicopter. This was not about the core helicopter itself but about a bunch of mod cons that Defence had added to it—the TopOwl system—concerning the images that were being fed to the pilot and the co-pilot, particularly during low-light scenarios.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">What the experts, the ones who tested the equipment, said was that, particularly in low-light situations where you're relying entirely on the visual because you can't see what's in front of you, the information that's fed to the pilot through the TopOwl could totally flip your orientation. Up might be down and down might be up. They highlighted that this equipment shouldn't be on the Taipans. You shouldn't put on equipment that, in the most stressful moments—the moments you most need to be relying upon the instrumentation—is potentially flipping it upside down. What they said was that, if Defence proceeded to allow this equipment in and allow it to be used—particularly in low-light situations, in stressful situations like that—it could lead to multiple deaths in a controlled flight into terrain. Then, on 28 July 2023, that's exactly what happened. Bushman 83, with those four defence personnel and an incredibly experienced pilot was in a low-light situation where we know they'd have been relying on looking at their instrumentation. We know it was instrumentation that, particularly when looking out left or right, could be flipping everything upside down. Tragically, they went into the water at speed in a controlled flight. They hit it like hitting concrete, and their lives were lost instantly.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">As we started unpicking what Defence knew, when they knew it and how they responded to the reports, the story just got worse and worse. Warnings were not heeded. Once the warnings were in place and it looked like there might be significant restrictions on the Taipan, particularly when they were engaged in joint exercises with the United States, where Australia wanted to show off its stuff and its ability to insert special forces—those situations where they wanted that to happen—people inside Army aviation tried multiple workarounds to get around these safety complaints and reports about how dangerous it was. They brought in individuals and experts. They looked at German reports. they did this and that and whatever. They said, 'Keep flying. Keep doing it'—even in these dangerous situations. And we know what happened.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I particularly want to thank some of those really brave people inside Defence who put their careers and their professional experience on the line to try and make that safety call. I'm particularly thinking here of retired majors David Lamb and Ian Wilson, people of genuine integrity and enormous experience. If only they'd been listened to and heard.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I won't repeat every one of the recommendations. There are 15 recommendations in this committee report. They go to questioning whether or not Army aviation should operate as it does. They recommend that the Defence Aviation Safety Authority review Army aviation's compliance with the Defence Aviation Safety Regulation and related Defence safety standards. The recommendations proposed that the Department of Defence conduct an urgent review to consider placing the Army Aviation Test and Evaluation Section outside the Army and under the command of the Air Force, where the best flight experience exists. I've got to tell you that that recommendation alone to not let Army aviation be judge, jury and executioner but to actually ensure that the best airworthiness experts—the best experts in the space, who are, it won't surprise you, within the Air Force—have some kind of direct oversight is critical.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Recommendation 7 says:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The committee recommends that the Department of Defence strengthen the Australian Defence Force's internal policies and procedures to:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-SmallBullet" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SmallBullet">promote safe reporting pathways, whereby personnel can raise concerns about safety, including fatigue, within and outside of the chain of command, and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-SmallBullet" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SmallBullet">strengthen training at all levels to promote a positive reporting and safety culture and to raise awareness of reporting pathways.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">That's essential. I said before that incredibly experienced test pilots, people with enormous experience and integrity, kept blowing the whistle and kept being ignored, and Defence kept looking for workarounds.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Recommendation 9 recommends:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">… the Australian Government examine the effectiveness of the framework designed to ensure the Defence Flight Safety Bureau's independence from the military's chain of command and reconsider the appropriateness of situating the Defence Flight Safety Bureau within the department that it is tasked with independently investigating.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The evidence I heard had a very disturbing taint to it, where those in the chain of command who just wanted this platform to keep operating and wanted it to operate in the very conditions in which these fatalities happened seemed to have some kind of power over the notionally independent safety experts—the people setting the standards and doing the testing. They need to be completely separated.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Then there is a series of recommendations—11, 12, 13, 14 and 15—which go to providing things like an acute support package to the families of veterans who lose their lives in situations like this and making sure that no-one's widow has to beg just to have the rent paid, that there's actually leniency there and that you understand the incredible loss and provide support, because we did hear about that. We heard about widows that, whilst they had some extensions and whilst there's been gradual improvement in some of this, were literally begging to get the support so that they could keep a roof over their heads of their kids, who've lost their dad. That shouldn't happen. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The final recommendation I'll reference is recommendation 15. This recommends the Department of Defence and the Australian War Memorial continue to consider the eligibility of Captain Daniel Lyon, Lieutenant Maxwell Nugent, Warrant Officer Class Two Joseph Laycock and Corporal Alexander Naggs for the roll of honour at the Australian War Memorial. If, for some bureaucratic reason I can't comprehend, that can't happen, then the committee recommends a dedicated memorial be created along Anzac Parade to honour their and other training deaths, because they died in service, and there should be some place to honour and respect that. I seek leave to continue my remarks later.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Leave granted; debate adjourned.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
        </subdebate.2>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Community Affairs References Committee</title>
          <page.no>70</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <a href="39" type="Committee">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Community Affairs References Committee</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>Report</title>
            <page.no>70</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Report</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>70</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Allman-Payne, Sen Penny</name>
                <name.id>298839</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>AG</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="298839" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator ALLMAN-PAYNE</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">16:00</span>):  I present the report of the Community Affairs References Committee on epilepsy, together with accompanying documents and move:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">That the Senate take note of the report. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Epilepsy is more than just seizures. That was what we heard as a committee at our first hearing into epilepsy, here in Canberra. Over the course of this inquiry, through the generosity and bravery of those people who are living with epilepsy, their families and those people who have lost loved ones to epilepsy, the committee heard loudly and clearly that epilepsy is indeed much more than seizures. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I had no idea that 30 per cent of people in this country who get an epilepsy diagnosis have what's called drug-resistant epilepsy. For those people, their lives and the lives of their families are turned upside down. We heard testimony from parents of young children and young adults and, in some cases, adult children with drug-resistant epilepsy who feel like they are on high alert 24/7, day after day, week after week, year after year, looking out for and caring for their loved ones, hearing bumps in the night and wondering if their child has had a seizure, worrying whether their young child is going to be injured from a seizure. We heard moving stories from families who have lost loved ones to epilepsy.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">SUDEP—the first time I heard that term was during this inquiry—stands for sudden unexpected death from epilepsy, and people with drug-resistant epilepsy have a 17 per cent risk of dying suddenly from epilepsy. Tragically, many, many parents and people living with epilepsy are not told that when they get their diagnosis. For some, the first time they hear about SUDEP is when they are burying their child or their loved one. Those families told us loudly and clearly that they want SUDEP to be part of the discussions when an epilepsy diagnosis is made. They want families and people living with epilepsy to understand clearly what SUDEP is, what the risks are and how it can be minimised. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">For those people who have epilepsy that can't be controlled, their lives are turned upside down. When you get an epilepsy diagnosis, you lose your driver's licence, but not only can you not drive yourself around, we heard evidence from people living with epilepsy that taking public transport is out of the question for many people. The danger of having a seizure on public transport is too big a risk. We heard from people who'd been thrown out of taxis or Ubers because they were having a seizure, and the person driving the car didn't understand what was going on. They thought they were drunk or on drugs. People with drug-resistant epilepsy, in many instances, can't work. They can't drive. Yet, for many, because their conditions are episodic or fluctuate—they go up and down over time—they're not eligible for the National Disability Insurance Scheme. It's families, partners and loved ones who are the ones doing the majority of the caring for those people.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">We heard in our inquiry that there are no optimal care pathways for epilepsy and that epilepsy care and diagnosis around the country is fragmented. For most people, it's a postcode lottery. We heard from a young family in Tasmania whose daughter was having 30 seizures a day and yet being sent home because the seizures weren't long enough to meet the threshold for more tests to be done. We heard stories of young First Nations people in the Territory either being removed from or having to leave their families on country because there's no support there once they get an epilepsy diagnosis. Yet First Nations people are overrepresented when it comes to diagnoses of epilepsy.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">We also heard things in our inquiry that give us hope and are a good story. We went to see the Murdoch Children's Research Institute in Melbourne and speak to Professor Howell and the others who work there, who are leading the world in gene therapy for epilepsy and who are also leading the world in rapid gene testing for epilepsy. We heard the story of a young family with a young daughter who was diagnosed within months of being born, and that has fundamentally changed the trajectory of their daughter's life, because an early diagnosis for a baby or a young child with epilepsy—if it can be controlled—changes their life trajectory. Continual seizures on a young brain affect that young person's development, and many young people with severe uncontrolled epilepsy end up with many comorbidities or other medical conditions that affect their life trajectory. So making rapid gene testing available to people very early on in their diagnosis is incredibly important.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">We heard, too, that, despite Australian researchers making massive strides in epilepsy research, some funding is not guaranteed and some funding is being reduced. Australia is a world leader when it comes to epilepsy research, and one of the recommendations of the committee is that we continue to invest in that research so that we can continue to lead the world and provide the breakthroughs that we need for people who are living with this condition.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I want to offer my thanks to Senator Wendy Askew, who was the instigator of this inquiry. Senator Askew played a key role right up until she left the Senate, going around the country with us, hearing the evidence and contributing to what will be our final report. I also want to give thanks to Senator Ananda-Rajah, who also has a deep interest in this inquiry and who, with her medical background, was able to add to the quality of the questions that we were able to put to the medical experts who came before the inquiry in particular. I want to thank the secretariat because the work that they have done in assisting us to bring this report into the chamber has given voice to so many people who came and gave evidence at our inquiry. We had hundreds of submissions. We had numerous lived experience panels right across the country, and every single one of those people has been given voice in this report.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I want to encourage the government to take on the 27 recommendations in this report. It starts with the need for an education campaign in this country. Certainly, one of the things that I learnt as I chaired this inquiry and listened to the evidence of witness after witness is that we as a community have very little knowledge about epilepsy. Yet it's one of the most common brain conditions experienced by people in this country. We need teachers, we need nurses, we need GPS, we need taxi drivers, we need Uber drivers, we need other people who are in the community to understand what epilepsy is, to not be afraid of it when they see someone experiencing a seizure and to understand that there are multiple ways that people can have seizures—they don't all look the same. We need to find ways to support those people who are living with an epilepsy diagnosis, particularly those with drug-resistant epilepsy, who desperately need more care and support.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I want to say a personal thank you to every person living with epilepsy, to every family member of someone living with epilepsy and to every family member of a loved one who died from epilepsy. Thank you for your courage and your bravery, and I hope that this report does your evidence justice.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>71</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Ananda-Rajah, Sen Michelle</name>
                <name.id>290544</name.id>
                <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="290544" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator ANANDA-RAJAH</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Victoria</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">16:10</span>):  I rise to speak on the epilepsy report tabled by the Community Affairs References Committee, and I pay tribute to Senator Allman-Payne for her sensitive, professional chairing of this committee and for all her work and her leadership on this committee. I also pay tribute to recently retired Senator Askew, a coalition Senator who has served her community in Tasmania with distinction. This legacy is very much her brainchild. This was by far one of the most meaningful pieces of work I have had the privilege of participating in in the short time I've been in the Senate, and I don't say that lightly. I practised for a very long time, and I have never seen a health condition with such weak infrastructure. It's actually in some perverse way better to have a diagnosis of diabetes, better to have a diagnosis even of cancer, better to even have a diagnosis of substance abuse, which is the most stigmatised condition in medicine by far, in 2026 than to have a diagnosis, in some parts of this country, of epilepsy, and that is an indictment on us all.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">However, we are here to do good. Epilepsy affects around 250,000 Australians. It has a bimodal incidence, which means it has two bumps in the lifespan—one in childhood and the other in older Australians. The aetiology, the causes, are very different in both cohorts. In older Australians it tends to be associated with vascular insults like stroke, for example, or acquired brain injury. But I want to really focus on the younger cohort. It can manifest from infancy, within weeks of being born, early childhood, the middle years, adolescence or early adulthood, and the causes of early onset epilepsy are very different. It is often really driven by genetic causes, genetic factors. One in 600 babies born in Australia are born with epilepsy. It's a staggering number. These genetic epilepsies are diverse. It is a mixed bag. There are around 950 genetic epilepsies and counting.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I have to ask myself. Why is it that babies are born with genetic epilepsy or indeed with any genetic problem in this country, when you have two parents who are completely normal and healthy? I'm going to cross-reference and speculate here. In another committee that we worked on, which was the microplastics and nanoplastics committee, we heard testimony in that committee that microplastics and nanoplastics cross the placenta in an act of toxic trespass. That's what the Minderoo expert told us, Dr Dunlop. I have to wonder whether there's a connection here between these two, where the environment is now driving genetic conditions amongst our babies. I don't know, and certainly this wasn't declared in the hearing, but I have to ask the question.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">But, back to epilepsy, your outcome is very much dependent on postcode and, frankly, how much you have in your bank account. When we talk about health inequity, this is the poster child of health inequity. Senator Allman-Payne is absolutely dead right here. We had testimony of people having outstanding care, principally in Victoria, thanks to the presence of centres of excellence and comprehensive epilepsy centres like the Alfred, like Austin Health and like the Royal Children's Hospital, which is associated with MCRI, the Murdoch Children's Research Institute. But it's kind of a lottery if you're anywhere else in this country. If you're in South Australia, for example, there is a 900-day wait to see an epilepsy clinic if you're an adult. That's three years. Who's going to wait three years? It's unacceptable. What has happened is that this weakening or absence, actually, of public services has driven patients into private neurologists. That is not without consequence because it is associated with out-of-pocket costs of $400 or $500 a visit, and it can take a couple of years to stabilise on seizure medications. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The most important thing is to stabilise it, to achieve seizure freedom, and it is incredibly important when you are talking about a growing brain. The naught to five years is a critical period of brain development. That is when the brain is growing fastest in life. That window is when 90 per cent of your growth in our brains happens. That is why we call that them the critical years. So imagine, if we are not achieving seizure freedom in that period of time, what that is doing developmentally to that child. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">In addition, there is this trial and error of cycling through something like 17 to 20 anti-epileptic drugs without any real roadmap or guideline because you don't have access to genetic testing, which is the case for the vast majority of Australians. This can lead to drug resistant epilepsy, which affects one in three patients. Drug resistant epilepsy is a catastrophe for those patients because it means they don't achieve seizure freedom. They are piling on side effects plus cost inconvenience. It is an absolute handbrake on their lives. They are unable to work. They are unable to drive. If you have a seizure, your licence is cancelled for six months. Imagine that happening in the prime of your life. We had so much testimony from young people who want to participate, who want to work and who want to study but are unable to do so because their licence has been revoked. It is imperative that patients achieve seizure freedom. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I'm only going to pull a couple of recommendations from our report. There are a lot of recommendations, but one is that we clearly need a national epilepsy strategy because that is the roadmap and that is going to bring all the groups together. We've done this before with cancer. We have an Australian Cancer Plan. It is outstanding, and we are implementing it. We need the same thing with epilepsy. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The second recommendation I want to highlight is that we need to establish comprehensive epilepsy centres in as many places in this country as possible, ideally in every state and territory. But the linchpin, particularly, has to be South Australia, because South Australia is an anchor and a referral centre for the Northern Territory. It draws in patients from the Northern Territory. We saw a glimmer of hope there. We met a trio of clinicians, two doctors who are training to become epileptologists as well as a neurosurgeon who has trained in neurosurgical epilepsy. They are planning on setting up a comprehensive epilepsy service in South Australia. We need to support them. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">It is imperative that South Australia sees an uplift because it will then transform the lives not only of people in South Australia but also Central Australia and Northern Australia. We heard heartbreaking testimony that Indigenous families are being separated in the Northern Territory. Children are being sent to supported care because they are having seizures and they need supervision with taking their medicines. We heard of elders going 400 or 500 kilometres from their country to live in residential care because they need supervision to take their medicines and there are concerns that they're not going to get access to care. This feels like the stolen generation all over again. This is unacceptable. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">We also need to ensure that these comprehensive epilepsy centres have access to high-fidelity imaging. Free Tesla MRI scanning is the benchmark at the moment, but we need to go further. A truly comprehensive epilepsy centre will also offer the kind of imaging which you don't get anywhere else. Called stereo EEG, it is where implants are put into the brain to localise where the misfire is occurring, and then they ablate it—they wipe it out. It can cure epilepsy. For some patients, there is absolutely an opportunity to cure epilepsy and to live a normal life, and we heard testimony to that effect. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I thank all the many parents, carers and children. I thank my colleagues and I thank the secretary— <span style="font-style:italic;">(Time expired)</span></span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>72</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Allman-Payne, Sen Penny</name>
                <name.id>298839</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>AG</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="298839" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator ALLMAN-PAYNE</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">16:21</span>):  I seek leave to continue my remarks.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Leave granted; debate adjourned.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
        </subdebate.2>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Economics Legislation Committee, Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Legislation Committee</title>
          <page.no>73</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p>
              <a href="30" type="Committee">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Economics Legislation Committee</span>
                </p>
              </a>
            </p>
            <a href="32" type="Committee">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Legislation Committee</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>Government Response to Report</title>
            <page.no>73</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Government Response to Report</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>73</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Green, Sen Nita</name>
                <name.id>259819</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="259819" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator GREEN</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Assistant Minister for Tourism, Assistant Minister for Pacific Island Affairs and Assistant Minister for Northern Australia</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">16:21</span>):  I present three government responses to committee reports as listed on today's Order of Business. In accordance with the usual practice, I seek leave to incorporate the documents in <span style="font-style:italic;">Hansard</span>.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Leave granted.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span style="font-style:italic;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-style:italic;">The documents read as follows—</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">Australian Government Response to the Senate Economics Legislation Committee report: Competition and Consumer Amendment (Unfair Trading Practices) Bill 2026</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Dear president</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">I write to you to provide a copy of the Australian Government response to the Senate Economics Legislation Committee Report titled 'Competition and Consumer Amendment (Unfair Trading Practices) Bill 2026'.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The Government response was delivered during debate in the Senate on 1 July 2026. For completeness and ease of reference, I have attached an extract Of the relevant Hansard proceedings. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Please arrange for this letter and the attached material to be tabled in the Senate.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Yours sincerely</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Andrew Leigh</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="text-align:left;direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">Australian Government response to the Economics Legislation Committee report:</span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">National Radioactive Waste Management Amendment (Site Specification Community Fund and Other Measures) Bill 2020 [Provisions]</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">SEPTEMBER 2026</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The Government notes the recommendations. Given the passage of time since this report was tabled, the Government provides the following update:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-SmallBullet" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SmallBullet">On 22 June 2021, the National Radioactive Waste Management Amendment (Site Specification, Community Fund and Other Measures) Bill 2020 was passed.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-SmallBullet" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SmallBullet">On 18 July 2023, the Federal Court set aside the former Minister's declaration of Napandee as the proposed site for the National Radioactive Waste Management Facility (the Facility) on the grounds of apprehended bias. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-SmallBullet" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SmallBullet">On 10 August 2023, the Minister for Resources stated that the Government did not intend to appeal the Federal Court's decision, nor pursue Napandee or the previously shortlisted Lyndhurst and Wallerberdina sites as a potential site for the Facility.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-SmallBullet" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SmallBullet">On 28 August 2025, the land of the former site at Napandee sold at auction. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-SmallBullet" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SmallBullet">The Government remains firmly committed to the safe management and disposal of Commonwealth radioactive waste.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-SmallBullet" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SmallBullet">Work is being undertaken to assess options for the management and disposal of the Commonwealth's low-level and intermediate-level waste.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-SmallBullet" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SmallBullet">A process and timeframes for establishing radioactive waste disposal pathways and associated siting will be determined once the Government has considered options and made decisions in due course.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="text-align:left;direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">Australian Government Response to the Report of the Senate Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Legislation Committee on the Defence Legislation Amendment (RCDVS Implementation and Related Measures No. 2) Bill 2026</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">September 2026</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">Introduction</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">On 25 June 2026, the Defence Legislation Amendment (RCDVS Implementation and Related Measures No. 2) Bill 2026 (the Bill) was referred to the Senate Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Legislation Committee (the Committee) for inquiry and report by 4 September 2026.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">On 4 September 2026, the Committee tabled its report on the Bill. The Bill would amend the <span style="font-style:italic;">Defence Act 1903</span> (the Defence Act), the <span style="font-style:italic;">Military Rehabilitation and Compensation Act 2004</span> (MRCA) and the <span style="font-style:italic;">Defence and Veterans' Service Commissioner Act 2026</span> to implement and support key recommendations of the Royal Commission into Defence and Veteran Suicide (RCDVS).</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The Bill is a significant package of reform and forms a key part of the Australian Government's response to the RCDVS. The RCDVS identified serious systemic issues affecting the health, wellbeing and safety of serving and former Australian Defence Force (ADF) members and their families. These included barriers to information sharing, gaps in transition support, limitations in the legislative framework governing Defence health services and shortcomings in the support available to Defence families.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The reforms would establish, for the first time, a comprehensive legislative foundation for Defence health services and a dedicated framework for supporting the lifetime wellbeing, health and safety of ADF members, veterans and their families. The reforms would also enable better use of information to identify and respond to risks, improve continuity of care and transition support, strengthen assistance for Defence families, and reinforce the standards expected of those serving in the ADF.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Together, these measures support early intervention, strengthen suicide prevention, improve continuity of care and enhance accountability across the Defence and veteran support system. The Bill directly implements 15 of the RCDVS recommendations and supports the implementation of a further 20 recommendations. This includes information-sharing provisions to support the operation of the Veteran and Family Wellbeing Agency and the National Veteran Data Asset once established.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The Government thanks the Committee and those who contributed to the inquiry for their consideration of the Bill. Following its consideration, the Committee made six recommendations. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The Government's response to each recommendation is set out below. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">Recommendation 1</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">The Committee recommends that the Department of Defence implements measures to safeguard the privacy of Australian Defence Force members, veterans and their families given the information collection, use and disclosure measures in the Bill.</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">Response:</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The Government <span style="font-weight:bold;">agrees</span> with this recommendation.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The Government recognises that strong privacy protections are critical to maintaining the confidence of ADF members, veterans and their families. The information sharing framework in the Bill is intended to address barriers identified by the RCDVS and support improved wellbeing, health and safety outcomes. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The Bill does not authorise unrestricted information sharing. Information may only be collected, used or disclosed where authorised by the legislative framework and for specified purposes. The <span style="font-style:italic;">Privacy Act 1988 </span>and the Australian Privacy Principles will continue to apply, including strict obligations relating to privacy, security, access controls, data quality, data breach management and accountability and regulatory oversight and enforcement by the Australian Information Commissioner. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The Bill also includes safeguards to ensure that privacy impacts are proportionate and appropriately managed. Before making an instrument under proposed sections 70KA or 70KB, the relevant Minister must be satisfied that the proposed information handling would support wellbeing, health or safety outcomes and that any privacy impact is proportionate to the expected benefits.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Ministerial guidelines under proposed section 70KC will establish detailed requirements for research, data analysis and evaluation activities, including in relation to consent, de-identification, security, governance and accountability. The guidelines may specify circumstances when information can be collected, used, or disclosed without consent, but only if the Minister is satisfied that the privacy impacts on individuals are proportionate to the benefits to other relevant ADF persons from the activity. Before making the guidelines, the Minister must seek and have regard to advice from the Australian Information Commissioner. Existing requirements under the <span style="font-style:italic;">Privacy Act 1988</span> for medical research will continue to apply, including oversight by Human Research Ethics Committees. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Defence has undertaken a detailed assessment of the privacy implications throughout the development of the Bill and identified additional safeguards for implementation, in partnership with the Department of Veterans' Affairs for joint activities. These include strengthened governance and oversight arrangements, privacy training for personnel handling information, periodic reviews of information-sharing activities, updated privacy notices and policies, and enhanced security and data quality controls. Where new or changed handling of personal information in reliance on the new framework is likely to have a significant impact on personal privacy, Defence and the Department of Veterans' Affairs will undertake privacy impact assessments, as required under the <span style="font-style:italic;">Privacy (Australian Government Agencies—Governance) APP Code 2017.</span></span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The safeguards in the Bill and the additional measures Defence will implement, in partnership with the Department of Veterans' Affairs, respond to the Committee's recommendation and support the appropriate use of information to improve wellbeing, health and safety outcomes while protecting the privacy of ADF members, veterans and their families.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">Recommendation 2</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">The Committee recommends that the Bill be amended to ensure that recommendation 22 of the Royal Commission into Defence and Veteran Suicide is implemented in full. Specifically, the Committee recommends that the Bill be amended to make clear that a conviction of any sexual offence (including stalking and intimate image abuse), not just serious violent and sexual offences, regardless of the sentence imposed, prevent a person from being accepted for service under proposed section 22A and require the end of th</span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">eir service under proposed section 27A.</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">Response:</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The Government <span style="font-weight:bold;">notes</span> this recommendation. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The Government does not consider that further amendment to the Bill is necessary. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The Government considers that the Bill implements RCDVS recommendation 22, when combined with existing separation processes. The recommendation was expressed at a high level and did not prescribe the legislative mechanism by which mandatory discharge should occur. It recommended that Defence adopt a policy of mandatory discharge for ADF members convicted of sexual and related offences, including stalking and intimate image abuse.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The Bill implements part of this recommendation by providing for automatic separation from service where an ADF member is convicted of an offence against an Australian law and sentenced to a period of imprisonment, including a suspended sentence. It also prevents a person who has been sentenced to imprisonment for a serious violent or sexual offence from joining the ADF. The extension of the framework to serious violent offences further strengthens workforce safety and public confidence in the ADF.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">There are limited circumstances in which separation from service can occur without a notice or procedural fairness. Requirements for procedural fairness necessitate implementation of this recommendation through commencing mandatory separation processes under the <span style="font-style:italic;">Defence Regulations 2026</span> (related to any finding where a member is found to have committed any act of sexual violence) and through mandatory separation upon imprisonment as a matter of law (through proposed section 27A of the Bill). </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The Government considers a sentence of imprisonment to be an appropriate statutory threshold for automatic consequences. It provides a clear, objective and nationally consistent indicator that a court has assessed the offending as sufficiently serious to warrant a custodial sentence. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">A conviction-based model could capture a broad range of offending resulting in fines, good behaviour orders or other non-custodial outcomes. The imprisonment threshold provides a clear and readily identifiable statutory threshold that does not depend on differences in how convictions are recorded or treated across jurisdictions.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Where a sentence of imprisonment is not imposed, in addition to the existing powers under the regulations, the Bill would enable the CDF or an authorised delegate to determine that a conviction, including for a sexual or related offence, renders a person unsuitable for service or continued service. This framework allows separation to occur while preserving discretion to consider the nature, seriousness and circumstances of the offending on a case-by-case basis, avoiding unintended outcomes that can arise from the application of an inflexible mandatory rule. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The inclusion of proposed section 22A of the Bill creates a bar to joining the Defence Force if certain previous convictions were recorded against a person to preclude those with historical serious violent and sexual offence convictions from joining the Defence Force. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The amendments to the Defence Regulations in December 2025 and supporting policy established a clear requirement to initiate involuntary separation for members who have committed acts of sexual violence, establishing a consistent and enforceable legal mechanism for mandatory discharge, which the Bill has further strengthened. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The Government remains committed to maintaining the integrity of and public confidence in the ADF, including through a zero-tolerance approach to sexual and related offences. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">Recommendation 3</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">The Committee recommends that the Defence and Veterans' Service Commission includes information in its annual report about the number of own motion final inquiry reports that were not tabled in Parliament within the reporting period.</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">Response:</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The Government <span style="font-weight:bold;">agrees-in-part </span>with this recommendation.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The Government recognises the importance of transparency regarding the exercise of the Defence and Veterans' Service Commission's own-motion inquiry functions.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Schedule 5 of the Bill would restore the intended flexibility for the Commissioner to provide a final own-motion inquiry report to the Minister for information without triggering a requirement for the report to be tabled in Parliament. The Commissioner would retain the ability to request tabling where appropriate. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">This approach is consistent with the RCDVS's expectation that not every report of its recommended entity would require tabling and some reports may be made public without being tabled, subject to appropriate protections for sensitive information.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Section 87 of the <span style="font-style:italic;">Defence and Veterans' Service Commissioner Act 2026</span> already requires the Commissioner to report annually on inquiries commenced and completed. Consistent with the Committee's recommendation, the Commission will also report on the number of own-motion final inquiry reports that were not tabled in Parliament during the reporting period. This will provide transparency about the use of the Commissioner's discretion while preserving the flexibility intended by Schedule 5.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">Recommendation 4</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">The Committee recommends that the Bill be amended to require that the Surgeon General of the Australian Defence Force be a registered medical practitioner with specialist qualifications.</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">Response:</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The Government <span style="font-weight:bold;">notes</span> this recommendation. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The Government does not consider it necessary to amend the Bill to mandate that the Surgeon General ADF (SGADF) to be a registered medical practitioner with specialist qualifications. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The SGADF is not a statutory office established by the Bill. The Chief of the Defence Force appoints the position under command arrangements. It would be unusual to prescribe qualifications in legislation for a non-statutory position, particularly where many specialised Defence roles are subject to professional requirements set through command, policy and administrative arrangements. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Prescribing qualifications in the Bill could also unnecessarily constrain the Chief of the Defence Force's command authority and Defence's ability to determine the qualifications and experience appropriate to the role over time. Defence's longstanding practice has been to appoint an appropriately qualified medical practitioner to the SGADF role.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Defence will continue to ensure that appropriate professional and clinical requirements for the position are maintained through command and administrative arrangements. Accordingly, the Government does not propose to amend the Bill. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">Recommendation 5</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">The Committee recommends that the Defence and Veterans' Service Commission conduct a review into the effectiveness of the measures implemented by the Bill within 24 months of the commencement of the Bill and table its findings in Parliament.</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">Response:</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The Government <span style="font-weight:bold;">agrees-in-part</span> with this recommendation. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The Government recognises the important role of the Defence and Veterans' Service Commission in independently evaluating the implementation of the Government's response to the RCDVS.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Under section 10 of the <span style="font-style:italic;">Defence and Veterans' Service Commissioner Act 2026</span>, the Commission is required to conduct inquiries into the implementation of the RCDVS recommendations, with a relevant statutory reporting date of 2 December 2030.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The Commission will review the effectiveness of the measures in the Bill that contribute to the implementation of the RCDVS recommendations through this statutory process. Its report will be provided to the Minister by 2 December 2030 and subsequently tabled in Parliament. This represents a longer timeframe than the 24 months proposed by the Committee. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The Government considers the review will provide valuable insight into whether the measures are operating as intended and delivering improved wellbeing, health and safety outcomes for ADF members, veterans and their families. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">Additional Comment from Coalition Senators: </span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The Government should continue to engage with serving ADF members, veterans and ex-service organisations regarding the operation of the information-sharing provisions and ensure appropriate privacy safeguards, transparency measures and complaint mechanisms are in place. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">Response: </span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The Government <span style="font-weight:bold;">agrees</span> with this comment. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The Government recognises the importance of maintaining the confidence of ADF members, veterans and their families in the information-sharing framework established by the Bill. The Bill contains a range of privacy safeguards, and the <span style="font-style:italic;">Privacy Act 1988 </span>and the Australian Privacy Principles will continue to apply. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Defence and the Department of Veterans' Affairs will continue to engage with stakeholders throughout the implementation of the reforms as appropriate, including on the operation of the framework, applicable privacy protections and available avenues for complaint and review. Existing privacy complaint mechanisms, including the ability to make a complaint to the Office of the Australian Information Commissioner, will continue to apply.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
        </subdebate.2>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Public Accounts and Audit Joint Committee</title>
          <page.no>76</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <a href="73" type="Committee">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Public Accounts and Audit Joint Committee</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>Report</title>
            <page.no>76</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Report</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>76</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Allman-Payne, Sen Penny</name>
                <name.id>298839</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>AG</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="298839" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator ALLMAN-PAYNE</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">16:21</span>):  I move:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">That the Senate take note of the report.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The 516th report of the inquiry into Commonwealth financial statements 2023-24 and 2024‌‍-25 notes that legislative noncompliance has increased across the past two audit periods. The report reads:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The IT control environment continues to account for the largest proportion of audit findings …</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">It says there are significant issues in the way departmental IT systems are set up, and these are not isolated to the Department of Defence, nor are they isolated to just the past three years. The report goes on to say that this isn't a new issue. We saw this with robodebt, when a cruel system was purposefully designed by government and senior department heads. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Today, the Senate passed the Knox Class Action (Facilitation) Bill 2026, and the Greens support its passage. It's good that the government is making sure that the robodebt class action victims aren't further punished for receiving their long-overdue compensation. Former governments and government departments harmed so many people with this illegal scheme that weaponised digital systems and then sought to cover it up while people died from the cruel and deliberate decisions by those in power. The Knox Class Action (Facilitation) Bill somewhat recognises that, but it's not enough. So many people weren't eligible to join the class action. That doesn't mean they didn't suffer. They did. They still do. And the government knows who they are. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The final report from the Royal Commission into the Robodebt Scheme was published in 2023. There were 57 recommendations. Many of them are still outstanding, even though Labor agreed to almost all of them in principle. Labor, this is your second term of government. Principles aren't enough. We need action and we need compassion. The ghost of robodebt still haunts welfare. It haunts departmental IT systems, with automated processes that are designed to gatekeep support rather than facilitate it. Stop pursuing people for decades-old debt they have no ability to prove they never owed. Compulsion and fear have no place in social security. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Australia is a rich country. Let's make it a compassionate country. The Greens are focused on creating a social support system that lifts people up instead of punishing them. We would like the Labor government to do the same.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Question agreed to.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
        </subdebate.2>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>77</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <debate.text>
        <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
          <p class="HPS-Debate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Debate">DOCUMENTS</span>
          </p>
        </body>
      </debate.text>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Consideration</title>
          <page.no>77</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Consideration</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Normal">Documents reserved for future debate will be listed on the <span style="font-style:italic;">Notice Paper</span>.</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>77</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <debate.text>
        <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
          <p class="HPS-Debate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Debate">COMMITTEES</span>
          </p>
        </body>
      </debate.text>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Consideration</title>
          <page.no>77</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Consideration</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Normal">Committee reports and government responses reserved for future debate will be listed on the <span style="font-style:italic;">Notice Paper</span>.</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>AUDITOR-GENERAL'S REPORTS</title>
        <page.no>77</page.no>
        <type>AUDITOR-GENERAL'S REPORTS</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <debate.text>
        <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
          <p class="HPS-Debate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Debate">AUDITOR-GENERAL'S REPORTS</span>
          </p>
        </body>
      </debate.text>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Consideration</title>
          <page.no>77</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Consideration</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Normal">Auditor-General's reports reserved for future debate will be listed on the <span style="font-style:italic;">Notice Paper</span>.</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>77</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <debate.text>
        <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
          <p class="HPS-Debate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Debate">DOCUMENTS</span>
          </p>
        </body>
      </debate.text>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Base Services Transformation Program, Major and Local Community Infrastructure Program, Veterans</title>
          <page.no>77</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p>
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Base Services Transformation Program</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Major and Local Community Infrastructure Program</span>
              </p>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Veterans</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>77</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Order for the Production of Documents</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>77</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Green, Sen Nita</name>
                <name.id>259819</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="259819" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator GREEN</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Assistant Minister for Tourism, Assistant Minister for Pacific Island Affairs and Assistant Minister for Northern Australia</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">16:28</span>):  I table documents relating to orders for the production of documents concerning the Base Services Transformation Program, the Major and Local Community Infrastructure Program and the women veterans strategy report.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
        </subdebate.2>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>78</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <debate.text>
        <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
          <p class="HPS-Debate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Debate">COMMITTEES</span>
          </p>
        </body>
      </debate.text>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Community Affairs Legislation Committee, Community Affairs References Committee, Economics Legislation Committee, Economics References Committee, Education and Employment Legislation Committee, Education and Employment References Committee, Environment and Communications Legislation Committee, Environment and Communications References Committee, Finance and Public Administration Legislation Committee, Finance and Public Administration References Committee, Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Legislation Committee, Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade References Committee, Intergenerational Housing Inequity Select Committee, Legal and Constitutional Affairs Legislation Committee, Legal and Constitutional Affairs References Committee, Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport Legislation Committee, Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport References Committee, Trade and Investment Growth Joint Committee, Treaties Joint Committee, Women's Health Select Committee</title>
          <page.no>78</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p>
              <a href="29" type="Committee">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Community Affairs Legislation Committee</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <a href="39" type="Committee">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Community Affairs References Committee</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <a href="30" type="Committee">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Economics Legislation Committee</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <a href="40" type="Committee">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Economics References Committee</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <a href="27" type="Committee">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Education and Employment Legislation Committee</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <a href="38" type="Committee">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Education and Employment References Committee</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <a href="16" type="Committee">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Environment and Communications Legislation Committee</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <a href="34" type="Committee">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Environment and Communications References Committee</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <a href="31" type="Committee">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Finance and Public Administration Legislation Committee</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <a href="41" type="Committee">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Finance and Public Administration References Committee</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <a href="32" type="Committee">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Legislation Committee</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <a href="42" type="Committee">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade References Committee</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <a href="24194" type="Committee">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Intergenerational Housing Inequity Select Committee</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <a href="33" type="Committee">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Legal and Constitutional Affairs Legislation Committee</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <a href="43" type="Committee">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Legal and Constitutional Affairs References Committee</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <a href="19" type="Committee">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport Legislation Committee</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <a href="35" type="Committee">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport References Committee</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <a href="24105" type="Committee">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Trade and Investment Growth Joint Committee</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <a href="76" type="Committee">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Treaties Joint Committee</span>
                </p>
              </a>
            </p>
            <a href="24202" type="Committee">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Women's Health Select Committee</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>Membership</title>
            <page.no>78</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Membership</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>78</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">O'Neill, Sen Deborah (The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>140651</name.id>
                <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="140651" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT </span>
                    </a>
                    <span class="HPS-GeneralBold">(</span>
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator O'Neill</span>
                    <span class="HPS-GeneralBold">)</span> (<span class="HPS-Time">16:29</span>):  The President has received letters requesting changes to the membership of various committees.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>78</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Green, Sen Nita</name>
                <name.id>259819</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="259819" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator GREEN</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Assistant Minister for Tourism, Assistant Minister for Pacific Island Affairs and Assistant Minister for Northern Australia</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">16:29</span>):  by leave—I move:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">That senators be discharged from and appointed to committees as follows:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">Community Affairs Legislation and References Committees</span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">—</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Appointed—Participating member: Senator Bleyer</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">Economics Legislation and References Committees</span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">—</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Appointed—Participating member: Senator Bleyer</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">Education and Employment Legislation and References Committees</span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">—</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Appointed—Participating member: Senator Bleyer</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">Environment and Communications Legislation and References Committees</span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">—</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Appointed—Participating member: Senator Bleyer</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">Finance and Public Administration Legislation and References Committees</span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">—</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Appointed—Participating member: Senator Bleyer</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Legislation and References Committees</span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">—</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Appointed—Participating member: Senator Bleyer</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">Intergenerational Housing Inequity</span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">—</span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">Select Committee</span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">—</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Appointed—Participating member: Senator Bleyer</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">Legal and Constitutional Affairs Legislation Committee</span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">—</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Appointed—</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Substitute member: Senator Steele-John to replace Senator Shoebridge for the committee's inquiry into the provisions of the Customs and Other Legislation Amendment (Illicit Tobacco Enforcement Modernisation and Other Measures) Bill 2026</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Participating members: Senators Bleyer and Shoebridge</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">Legal and Constitutional Affairs References Committee</span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">—</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Appointed—Participating member: Senator Bleyer</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport Legislation Committee</span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">—</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Appointed—Senator Bleyer</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport References Committee</span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">—</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Appointed—</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Senator Bleyer</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Substitute members—</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      34pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Senator Hodgins-May to replace Senator Bleyer for the committee's inquiry into the Major and Local Community Infrastructure Program</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      34pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Senator Steele-John to replace Senator Bleyer for the committee's inquiry into rural, regional and remote Medicare access and funding</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Participating member: Senator Bleyer</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">Trade and Investment Growth</span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">—</span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">Joint Standing Committee</span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">—</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Appointed—Senator Hanson-Young</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">Treaties</span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">—</span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">Joint Standing Committee</span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">—</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Appointed—Senator Hanson-Young</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">Women's Health</span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">—</span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">Select Committee</span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">—</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Appointed—Participating member: Senator Bleyer</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Question agreed to.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
        </subdebate.2>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>BILLS</title>
        <page.no>79</page.no>
        <type>BILLS</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <debate.text>
        <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
          <p class="HPS-Debate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Debate">BILLS</span>
          </p>
        </body>
      </debate.text>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Private Health Insurance Amendment (Modernising the Private Health Insurance Rebate) Bill 2026</title>
          <page.no>79</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <a href="r7497" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Private Health Insurance Amendment (Modernising the Private Health Insurance Rebate) Bill 2026</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>First Reading</title>
            <page.no>79</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">First Reading</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Bill received from the House of Representatives.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>79</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Green, Sen Nita</name>
                <name.id>259819</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="259819" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator GREEN</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Assistant Minister for Tourism, Assistant Minister for Pacific Island Affairs and Assistant Minister for Northern Australia</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">16:29</span>):  I move:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">That this bill may proceed without formalities and be now read a first time.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Question agreed to.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Bill read a first time.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
        </subdebate.2>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>79</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Second Reading</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>79</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Green, Sen Nita</name>
                <name.id>259819</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="259819" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator GREEN</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Assistant Minister for Tourism, Assistant Minister for Pacific Island Affairs and Assistant Minister for Northern Australia</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">16:30</span>):  I move:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">That this bill be now read a second time.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I seek leave to have the second reading speech incorporated in <span style="font-style:italic;">Hansard</span>.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Leave granted.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span style="font-style:italic;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-style:italic;">The speech read as follows—</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The Private Health Insurance Amendment (Modernising the Private Health Insurance Rebate) Bill 2026 will address intergenerational inequity, simplify, and better target the rebate for private health insurance premiums. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Currently, the government provides a rebate that supports Australians to take up and hold private health insurance.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Each year, we invest approximately $8 billion in the rebate to help keep private health insurance more affordable and take pressure off our public health system.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">In the election environment of 2004, with a boom economy driven by global economic activity, the Howard government increased the rebate for people aged 65 and above. In 2026, that is difficult to defend.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The higher rebate for people aged 65 and above means two households on the same income receive different levels of government rebate based only on their age. This is in addition to older people's health insurance claims being cross subsidised by younger policyholders under community rating, which means everyone pays the same premium for the same policy, regardless of their gender or health status. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Older Australians are more likely to retain private health insurance and they receive significantly higher benefits on average than younger people. This means the inequitable targeting of the rebate does not align with its purpose to incentivise take up.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">And the current model is simply not the best way to spend taxpayers' dollars on behalf of older Australians when there is a significant need to improve access to aged care services.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Therefore, to re-establish intergenerational equity, better target and simplify the rebate, this Bill will amend the <span style="font-style:italic;">Private Health Insurance Act 2007, </span>removing the higher rebates paid for people aged 65 and over. The rebate will remain means tested—a change Labor made in 2012 and those opposite opposed—paid at a higher rate for those on lower incomes. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The rebate changes will take effect on 1 April 2027.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">I understand this will not be a welcome decision for some, but it is the right thing to do. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">It will mean two households next door to each other on exactly the same income will receive the same support from Government for their health insurance—regardless of age.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">It also allows us to invest $3 billion in critical funds to deliver more residential aged care beds, more Support at Home Packages, shorter wait times and better care for older Australians. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">This investment will: </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-SmallBullet" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      70.35pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-SmallBullet">build on changes we delivered in our first term that incentivised construction of beds for aged care residents </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-SmallBullet" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      70.35pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-SmallBullet">give providers the certainty they need to build and maintain quality residential accommodation </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-SmallBullet" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      70.35pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-SmallBullet">make Support at Home fairer and more affordable for older Australians </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-SmallBullet" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      70.35pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-SmallBullet">continue the Government's work to set the aged care system up for generations to come. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The change will impact approximately 3.2 million people aged 65 years and over who have a taxable income below the rebate cut-off. It is expected the average increased premium for these impacted older Australians will approximately $250 per year—or less than $1 per day. For some older Australians on more expensive policies, the increase will be higher. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">It is expected the number of older Australians with health insurance will continue to increase, including people aged 65 years and over. It is estimated there will be about 44,000 less people aged 65 and over insured by 2028-29 than if the rebate remains unchanged. That is 0.4 per cent fewer insured people than otherwise expected, in a sector that is growing on average by 2% each year.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">This is a relatively low change in participation compared with the volume of services in hospitals, which means the impact on hospital admissions is expected to be marginal.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The Bill will implement the rebate change by amending Part 2-2 of the <span style="font-style:italic;">Private Health Insurance Act 2007</span> so the rebate calculation applies in the same way for people aged 65 and above as it does for those aged under 65. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The Bill will also make a technical amendment to the <span style="font-style:italic;">Age Discrimination Act 2004</span>, removing reference to an exemption previously required for the discriminatory operation of the higher rebates for older Australians.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">While this will remove the current preferential rebate for older Australians, they will continue to be supported through the rebate of up to 24% off their premiums, depending on income, community rating, and through indexation of the rebate, which this government reintroduced after it was frozen under the previous Liberal government. All of this will help keep private health insurance more affordable. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The Australian Government must balance its support for privately insured patients with the funding it provides across the health, disability and aged care system. Savings from the rebate change will provide important support for older people through improvements to aged care. This decision reflects responsible budget management in challenging times.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The government will invest the $3 billion estimated savings from this measure in delivering more aged care beds, packages, and better care for older Australians.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">This will enable more people to access aged care, address delayed discharge from hospital and provide dignity and care to older Australians at the end of their lives. Reinvesting the savings from the rebate in aged care capacity will also relieve pressure on the public system. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Although the rebate change is not expected to have a substantial impact on private hospitals, the government recognises some private hospitals have ongoing viability concerns. We are considering a range of reform options identified in consultation with the sector to modernise private health and better support the public/private health system that has made Australia's health system one of the best in the world.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Ordered that further consideration of the second reading of this bill be adjourned to the first sitting day of the next period of sittings, in accordance with standing order 111.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
        </subdebate.2>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Customs Amendment (Safeguard Inquiries) Bill 2026</title>
          <page.no>80</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <a href="s1495" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Customs Amendment (Safeguard Inquiries) Bill 2026</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>Returned from the House of Representatives</title>
            <page.no>80</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Returned from the House of Representatives</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Message received from the House of Representatives returning the bill without amendment.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
        </subdebate.2>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>MOTIONS</title>
        <page.no>80</page.no>
        <type>MOTIONS</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <debate.text>
        <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
          <p class="HPS-Debate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Debate">MOTIONS</span>
          </p>
        </body>
      </debate.text>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Australian Parliament</title>
          <page.no>80</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Australian Parliament</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>80</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Pocock, Sen David</name>
              <name.id>256136</name.id>
              <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
              <party>IND</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="256136" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator DAVID POCOCK</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Australian Capital Territory</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Independent ACT Whip</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">16:31</span>):  I move:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">That the Senate—</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">(a) notes that Australia's lobbying rules cover only third-party lobbyists, leaving most of those who lobby the Commonwealth outside the system entirely;</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">(b) notes that the Code is not law, the Register is incomplete, and there is no independent regulator to enforce it;</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">(c) affirms that lobbying rules should be transparent, cover everyone who lobbies, be independently enforced and ensure access is not determined by money or connections; and</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">(d) calls on the Government to legislate during this parliamentary term to bring all lobbyists under an enforceable code overseen by an independent regulator; close the revolving door between decision-makers and the industries they regulate; and require publication of details of meetings with lobbyists.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">When I was first elected to this place by the people of the ACT to be a senator for the ACT, I was shocked at our lobbying laws and just how loose they were. I think, like most Australians, I looked at decisions that were being made and thought, 'That doesn't really stack up; there must be some problems in this place.' You hear stories about lobbying, but it is only once you're actually in here that you realise just how bad things are.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">One of the things that shocked me the most is that we have a lobbyist register that doesn't apply to the vast majority of lobbyists. Eighty per cent of the people lobbying in this parliament sit outside the lobbyist register—outside the Lobbying Code of Conduct. Let's remember that code is just a guideline; it's not actually a law. It's administered by the Attorney-General's Department, and at Senate estimates I asked them about the consequences of breaking our Lobbying Code of Conduct. It seems like the worst thing that can happen to you is a three-month holiday. Many liberal democracies have civil, sometimes criminal, penalties because they understand the privilege of access to the parliament, to elected representatives and to the executive. That privilege should not be abused.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">I was shocked to learn—and, when I speak to Canberrans and other Australians, they are just as shocked—what a lobbyist is. If you think about who is a lobbyist, you think about big companies like Qantas, Woodside and Santos. They have teams of government relations people and their job is government relations—to speak to the government of the day and put the case forward for those companies. And I assume they are paid very well to do that. I think almost every Australian would say, 'Yes, that's a lobbyist.' Not in this place. We have two major parties in this country who say that, no, that's not actually a lobbyist. They're an 'in-house' lobbyist. There are no rules for them. They don't have to be on the lobbying register. They don't have to abide by the Lobbying Code of Conduct. And that simply does not cut it. We have to do better as a country. We can't stand here and talk about and wonder why we're seeing a declining trust in us, in the parliament, in politicians, in the government and in institutions and at the same time not do something about this issue, which the vast majority of Australians want dealt with.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">When I talk about the need for more transparency around lobbying, sometimes people think that I don't like lobbyists. I think that access to this building is a good thing. This is the people's house. This is a place where people should be able to bring their ideas and put forward their point of view on behalf of their organisation, their community, their company or their industry group. You need and you want all these perspectives in the mix. But the thing that we shouldn't tolerate, and the thing that doesn't cut it with Australians, is that there's no transparency around that. They don't know who has access, who gave them access and what they're here to do.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">There is a very reliable way to get a seat at the table, and that is by paying $10,000 to the Labor business forum, or whatever it's called. That gets you a seat next to the Prime Minister. If you have cash, you can get access. Australians don't like that—and rightly so, because it stinks. That is not the way our democracy should work. We have this system where more than $110 million has gone to the major parties since 1999 through cash-for-access schemes—access sold by the seat. I think that needs to stop, because those who have money, who have power, pay the 10 grand and get the ear of the PM. The nurse who's lost her brother to a gambling addiction and wants to put her case to the Prime Minister about the urgent need for gambling reform, about the fact that she wants the Prime Minister to put Australians ahead of the gambling industry or the NRL, doesn't have 10 grand to buy that access, and the Prime Minister won't meet with her. That's the cold, hard reality of our politics at the moment. You can see why Australians want better, and you can see why Australians are going to start to demand better at the ballot box.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">The presiding officers have now acted on lobbyist passes, and I really welcome these changes. For years we were told that there were privacy issues, that this was impossible, that we simply could not allow the public to know who has access to this place, the people's house, and who gave them that access. Lo and behold, that's happening. I think that is a great thing, and we should commend the presiding officers, commend the government, for doing that.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">But let's not forget what we're up against. During an inquiry into lobbying we were told by various officials that the Privacy Act made what the parliament has now decided to do impossible. We were told there was a security risk. We were told it would invite foreign interference. But when we get to the point when the public has had enough and demanded that the parliament do something, all of a sudden the excuses vanish and we can do it. We know that in this place we can do things when there is political will.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">During that inquiry a number of recommendations were made. That was one of the recommendations of the inquiry—that there be a publicly accessible register of people who have a sponsored pass and which parliamentarians have given them that pass. But that was only one recommendation, and it is more than two years old now, and we're still waiting for a government response to that inquiry. We still have no legislative code. We still have no penalties. We still have no independent regulator. We've still got no publication of ministerial diaries, In the other place, when the Prime Minister was asked about ministerial diaries by the member for Wentworth, I think it was—Alegra Spender—he basically said, 'Well, we've got more transparency than a whole bunch of countries; when I go to the UN there'll be some countries where you won't even know who the leader is meeting with.' That's a terrible, terrible argument to make. We expect better. We should be holding ourselves to a much higher standard than some of the leaders in places where they don't even have free and fair elections. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">One of the other things that is very closely related to lobbying, and that Australians are, you could say, sick and tired of, and want change on, is the revolving door. Today we've seen reporting that the Minister for Resources has been accepting gifts from gas giant Woodside—free, I presume, box seats to the footy—at the very same time that the minister is implementing the gas-led recovery—sorry, the Future Gas Strategy. The gas-led recovery was Scott Morrison's package for gas, which was reheated and rebranded the Future Gas Strategy. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Australians expect better than that. They do not want to see the minister, who clearly has a really important role in regulating a powerful, powerful industry, schmoozing on the weekend and accepting box-seat tickets to the footy. We expect better. Australians can start to see that resources ministers almost always go to work in the resources industry, because they clearly cultivate very cosy relationships, and they get paid very good money when they finish up making decisions that you'd hope are in the Australian people's interests, but then they go straight to the resources industry. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">It's not just resources. We've seen Stephen Conroy, a Labor communications minister, become the head of the peak body for the gambling industry. Both sides have sent ministers into the industries that they used to regulate, and neither side has really ever had to explain it. I think that is not good enough anymore in this country. There's a lot at stake when it comes to these sorts of things, which may seem minor in this place but, I think, really matter in the community. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">We've recently seen the Major and Local Community Infrastructure Program, where more than 90 per cent of the money went to Labor seats—different scheme, same pattern. The system is rigged. The closer you are to power, the better it works for you. Australia now scores 76 on the corruption index; that's nine points below where we sat back in 2012. Public trust collapses because people keep being told: 'The system is fine. There's nothing to see here. We can't make any changes.' But they know it's not good enough. They want better. They want it to actually deliver for the Australian people. They want it to deliver for our young people, for young Australians, and their futures. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">One of the other things I've learnt in this place is that there are solutions. There are so many solutions. There are lots of problems, but there are just as many solutions. There are people who have spent their lives working on these problems—studying them, looking at what's happening overseas, looking at best practice, looking at unintended consequences—and we've got solutions for all of this. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">We could expand the definition of what a lobbyist is to ensure that everyone who is actually lobbying is considered a lobbyist and that there is a very strong code of conduct. We could have an independent regulator. We could have a lobbying code with penalties that actually bite. If you have the privilege of lobbying, Australians would expect that you are held to a very high standard, and, if you wilfully go against that—if you break that—the regulator would come down hard on you. Currently, we have weak standards implemented by a few hardworking public servants in the Attorney-General's Department, and I don't think that that cuts it. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">We need real cooling-off periods for ministers and senior staff. Ministers earn a lot of money. I get that politicians need jobs after politics, but you can't tell me that, after earning hundreds of thousands of dollars, you should be able to jump straight into an industry that you've regulated. There are many countries around the world that have far longer cooling-off periods, and I think some of the committees in this place have been looking at other industries that are facing issues around cooling-off periods. I think we should lead by example here.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">The other one we should be doing is ministerial diaries. I think Australians have an expectation that they can see who ministers, who are working for them, employed by the Australian people and paid by the Australian people, are meeting with so they can make their own mind up about the different points of views that have been taken into account, and who is getting access and who is missing out on that access. There are many places that do this—Canada, UK, New Zealand. It can be done. We're running out of excuses as a parliament, and I would urge my Senate colleagues. We can do this, but I fear that it'll only be public pressure that makes it happen. Australians can go to lobbyingreform.com.au and actually make their voice heard. Tell your local representative: 'You work for me, and this is something that I want. This is something that I expect of you.' We should expect a base level of transparency in this place, and I think that is a big part of restoring trust and rebuilding trust in our parliament, in politicians, in our government and critically in our institutions at a time of so much instability.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Question agreed to.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>ADJOURNMENT</title>
        <page.no>83</page.no>
        <type>ADJOURNMENT</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <debate.text>
        <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
          <p class="HPS-Debate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Debate">ADJOURNMENT</span>
          </p>
          <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Normal">
              <span style="font-weight:bold;">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT (Senator O'Neill):</span>  Order! I propose the question:</span>
          </p>
          <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Small">That the Senate do now adjourn.</span>
          </p>
        </body>
      </debate.text>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Dementia</title>
          <page.no>83</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Dementia</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>83</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Polley, Sen Helen</name>
              <name.id>e5x</name.id>
              <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="e5x" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator POLLEY</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Tasmania</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">16:46</span>):  I rise this evening to thank Dementia Australia, particularly the Chair of Dementia Australia, Merran Kelsall AO; the CEO, Professor Tanya Buchanan; and the entire team—Eliza, Dr Stokes, Christine, David and the team—for the professional and enlightening Parliamentary Friends of Dementia event that I held as a co-chair yesterday in this place. I'd also like to place on record our thanks to Minister for Health and Ageing Mark Butler for attending and speaking, for his strong advocacy of this issue for over a decade and for his great understanding and compassion for those people who have been diagnosed. I also want to acknowledge Minister Sam Rae, Minister for Aged Care, who also attended the event. I would also like to acknowledge my colleague here, Senator Ruston, the opposition spokesperson, for her passionate contribution that she made at the event yesterday.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">This event yesterday was no coincidence. Why we held it yesterday was because action week is next week. Dementia Action Week runs from the 21 to 27 September. Our theme is 'It's Time to Talk about Dementia', and you may ask: why should we be talking about dementia? I've spent a very long time in this place campaigning, getting support from the government and harassing the opposition when they were in government to make dementia—it's a very important health issue that needs to be bipartisan. After all, dementia is the leading cause of death for men and women in this country. The reason we want people to talk about dementia in their communities, in their workplace and amongst their friends is that dementia does not discriminate on political grounds. It doesn't discriminate on postcodes. It can impact anyone. We have to debunk the myth that dementia and Alzheimer's are just a part of getting older. It is not. This is why we have to talk about it.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">We also have to talk about it because there is some wonderful support available through Dementia Australia, but we also need to educate our health professionals, our GPs, because, when someone comes to you, they've had a diagnosis of dementia and they have their carer with them, you cannot talk to the carer. You have to talk and look at the person who is on that journey. We were so fortunate yesterday to have a panel of people. We had two GPS who specialise in dementia, and I give a big shout-out to them for the support that they give their communities. We had a young woman who is caring for her mother and spoke about how she missed some signs, and she felt that she had missed the opportunity to get that earlier diagnosis.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">We also had the great delight to have a gentleman speak to us who has the had the diagnosis for three years, and I can assure you, when you heard him speak, you would never have been able to tell. If you walked into that room, you would not have ever expected that he'd had the diagnosis for three years. He spoke about how he had changed his life and his activities. He comes from Wollongong, and, at 4.30 in the morning, every single morning, he goes for a swim in the rockpool. He said, yes, it is very cold during winter, but he does that because it's so important, as we age, to do different things to stimulate the brain, and he's doing that. It's also about making sure that you look after your brain, and that really starts from being a young person—all the way through. You need to have a balanced diet. You need to lower your stress levels—maybe not become a politician—but you also need to make sure you exercise and eat well. You stay engaged.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span style="font-style:italic;">
                  </span>The unfortunate thing is that we know that children have childhood dementia, and that is so, so sad. The other reason why we need to talk about dementia is that we need to improve the amount of time GPs get to actually do consultations with people as they age so that they can pick up the changes. We also need to ensure that people get an earlier diagnosis. The earlier you get that diagnosis—there are medications now available to you. We've got great researchers in this country. There will be a breakthrough soon. <span style="font-style:italic;">(Time expired)</span></span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Myanmar</title>
          <page.no>83</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Myanmar</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>83</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Smith, Sen Dean</name>
              <name.id>241710</name.id>
              <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
              <party>LP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="241710" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator DEAN SMITH</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Western Australia</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">16:51</span>):  I thank the government for its response to the report of the Senate Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade References Committee into human rights and democracy in Myanmar. At the outset, it's very important to reiterate that the Senate committee's report was very well received by a broad range of stakeholders. This endorsement is not only welcome, but it's a powerful reminder that Australians remain engaged with the issues arising from the continuing conflict in Myanmar. The government has acknowledged the comprehensive and detailed nature of the report and accepted recommendation 11 in principle, partially accepted recommendations 2 and 7 and noted recommendations 1, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8 and 9.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">However, people will be disappointed that the government has rejected recommendation 10, a recommendation that would have significantly increased the accountability and transparency of the government's approach to Myanmar by requiring the Australian government to provide a quarterly statement to parliament on its response to the ongoing conflict. This quarterly statement would have required the Australian government to report on progress on the implementation of the Australia-Myanmar Development Partnership Plan 2024-2029, progress of initiatives undertaken with the Association of Southeast Asian Nations, the monitoring and compliance of Australia's sanction regime and engagement with the Myanmar diaspora and National Unity Government.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Today, of course, is also an opportunity to give a voice to Myanmar diaspora groups wanting a more visible and forthright response to the conflict from the Australian government. Through active community engagement with these groups, I know the following views to be strongly and wildly widely held. First, the humanitarian work of the International Committee of the Red Cross and the other impartial organisations assisting the people of Myanmar is warmly welcomed and greatly appreciated. Communities were relieved by the news and confirmation from the International Committee of the Red Cross that Daw Aung San Suu Kyi is alive and were reassured by the independent assessment of her welfare after years of isolation.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">As important as this humanitarian development is, it should not be interpreted as evidence of genuine political progress. Thousands of political prisoners remain detained. Military attacks on civilians continue, and there's been no credible commitment by the military regime to engage in an inclusive political process. The views of the Australian community and what constitutes meaningful progress have been clear and consistent. They include the release of all political prisoners, an end to attacks on civilians, recognition of Myanmar's democratic representatives, ethnic resistance organisations and civil society as legitimate participants in political dialogue, and, of course, a genuine inclusive political process.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">More than five years after the military's unlawful seizure of power, the military authorities continue to violate the ASEAN Five-Point Consensus through ongoing violence, restrictions on humanitarian access and the absence of meaningful political dialogue. So Australia is being asked to support full implementation of the ASEAN Five-Point Consensus and increase pressure to end the violence.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Australia should continue working with ASEAN and international partners to strengthen targeted sanctions on the military's revenue sources, support international accountability mechanisms and respond to serious violations of international law. Australia should continue to promote inclusive political engagement by continuing to encourage ASEAN to engage with the National Unity Government, democratic representatives, ethnic resistance organisations, civil society, humanitarian organisations and the Steering Council for the Emergence of a Federal Democratic Union to support an inclusive federal democratic future. Of course, we call on expansion of humanitarian access and work to develop compliance benchmarks for the Five-Point Consensus through measurable benchmarks, implementation timelines and monitoring mechanisms, together with consequences for continued noncompliance.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Australia has long been recognised as a nation committed to democracy, human rights, the rule of law and international justice. As this crisis continues, Australia must continue to stand with the people of Myanmar not simply through words but through sustained humanitarian support, principled diplomacy, effective international pressure and a meaningful engagement with those seeking a democratic future for their country.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="text-align:center;direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                  </span>
                  <span style="font-weight:bold;">Senate adjourned at 16:56</span>
                </span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
  </chamber.xscript>
</hansard>