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<hansard noNamespaceSchemaLocation="../../hansard.xsd" version="2.2">
  <session.header>
    <date>2026-09-16</date>
    <parliament.no>3</parliament.no>
    <session.no>1</session.no>
    <period.no>0</period.no>
    <chamber>Senate</chamber>
    <page.no>0</page.no>
    <proof>1</proof>
  </session.header>
  <chamber.xscript>
    <business.start>
      <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
        <p class="HPS-SODJobDate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
          <span class="HPS-SODJobDate">
            <span style="font-weight:bold;" />
            <a href="Chamber" type="">Wednesday, 16 September 2026</a>
          </span>
        </p>
        <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
          <span class="HPS-Normal">
            <span style="font-weight:bold;">The PRESIDENT (Senator </span>
            <span style="font-weight:bold;">the Hon. </span>
            <span style="font-weight:bold;">Sue Lines</span>
            <span style="font-weight:bold;">)</span> took the chair at 09:00, made an acknowledgement of country and read prayers.</span>
        </p>
      </body>
    </business.start>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>1</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <debate.text>
        <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
          <p class="HPS-Debate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Debate">DOCUMENTS</span>
          </p>
        </body>
      </debate.text>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Tabling</title>
          <page.no>1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Tabling</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Normal">
                <span style="font-weight:bold;">The Clerk:</span>  I table documents pursuant to statute and returns to order as listed on the Dynamic Red.</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Normal">
                <span style="font-style:italic;">
                </span>
                <span style="font-style:italic;">Full details of the documents are recorded in the </span>Journals of the Senate<span style="font-style:italic;">.</span></span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>1</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <debate.text>
        <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
          <p class="HPS-Debate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Debate">COMMITTEES</span>
          </p>
        </body>
      </debate.text>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Meeting</title>
          <page.no>1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Meeting</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Normal">
                <span style="font-weight:bold;">The Clerk:</span>  Proposals to meet have been lodged as follows:</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Small">Environment and Communications References Committee—private meeting otherwise than in accordance with standing order 33(1) today, from 4.30 pm.</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Small">Migration—Joint Standing Committee—private meeting otherwise than in accordance with standing order 33(1) and a private briefing today, from 9.30 am, for the committee's inquiry into the value of skilled migration to Australia.</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>1</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
              <name.id>112096</name.id>
              <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">The PRESIDENT</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Time">09:01</span>):  If there is no objection, the meetings are authorised.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>BILLS</title>
        <page.no>1</page.no>
        <type>BILLS</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <debate.text>
        <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
          <p class="HPS-Debate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Debate">BILLS</span>
          </p>
        </body>
      </debate.text>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>A New Tax System (Family Assistance) Amendment (No Jab No Pay Repeal) Bill 2025</title>
          <page.no>1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <a href="s1482" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">A New Tax System (Family Assistance) Amendment (No Jab No Pay Repeal) Bill 2025</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>1</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Second Reading</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Consideration resumed of the motion:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">That this bill be now read a second time.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>1</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Antic, Sen Alex</name>
                <name.id>269375</name.id>
                <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="269375" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator ANTIC</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">09:01</span>):  . The A New Tax System (Family Assistance) Amendment (No Jab No Pay Repeal) Bill 2025 is a bill which stands for the principle of conscientious objection. The bill seeks to restore freedom of choice for parents who, for personal, philosophical, religious or medical reasons, elect not to have a child receive a vaccine from the standard vaccine schedule. It would achieve this by repealing the changes made to the Social Services Legislation Amendment (No Jab, No Pay) Bill 2015. In 2015, the so-called no-jab no-pay amendment made certain family assistance benefits conditional on meeting vaccine and vaccination requirements by amending the A New Tax System (Family Assistance) Act 1999. Access to the childcare benefit, childcare rebate and family tax benefit part A became conditional on a child meeting all the immunisation requirements. Childcare benefit and childcare rebate have since been replaced by the child care subsidy. No-jab no-pay removed the conscientious objection exemption regarding being eligible for these forms of government assistance for families, meaning that, if parents want to receive those benefits, their child's vaccination schedule must be fully up to date. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Now, the removal of the conscientious objection against vaccination to receive these benefits is, in my view, needlessly cruel and coercive as a measure designed to financially pressure parents, many of whom are of a low-socioeconomic background, into having their children vaccinated, even if they hold personal, philosophical, religious or indeed medical objections to doing so. A decision to vaccinate a child, wherever such reasons exist, should be a personal decision. Contrary to what our modern healthcare apparatus seems to think, legitimate reasons for conscientious objections exist. Indeed, that was the consensus in 1999, with the A New Tax System (Family Assistance) Act 1999, so it wasn't actually all that long ago that the right to conscientious objection was considered important in this country.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The no-jab no-pay laws erroneously assumed that there could not exist a genuine reason for conscientious objections to vaccination. It was simply disregarded. Bear in mind we're not talking about refusing every single vaccine but simply not being up to date. Parents could refuse one single vaccine that they have concerns about for whatever reason in the multivaccine schedule, and thereby be rendered ineligible for the child care subsidy and the family tax benefit.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Before discussing this further, it's worth pausing to reflect on the question of why there was a conscientious objection clause in the first place. In the late 1990s, it was deemed necessary by parliament to allow parents to reserve that right. In fact, it seems to have been largely uncontroversial that access to childcare assistance shouldn't be impaired by conscientious objection. And, as recently as the late nineties, both sides of the Australian parliament would have characterised that as needlessly coercive and a cruel measure. It was regarded as an important right for reasons that really shouldn't require explanation but sadly do require an explanation in the current environment. It should be obvious that, for a start, decisions about vaccination should primarily lie with the parents and not with government. When the government gets to unilaterally decide the conditions of receiving medical interventions and treatments, such as this, a precedent of government unilaterally making those decisions is set. Also established in 2015 was the precedent that compliance with arbitrary government requirements should be personal and that parental decisions allow greater access to benefits and so on. That creates a two-tiered society in which those who object and have reasonable reasons for doing so are denied help. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The government and the pharmaceutical companies have now decided for you that the benefits outweigh the risk—and that's that. If you're the slightest bit sceptical about even one vaccine on the multi-vaccine schedules, then you're cut off from the government's payment. Now, my point here isn't whether or not there's one particular vaccine on the schedule that's safe or another that's not. It's about necessity, and it's about the ability for parents to conscientiously object. My point is that it is obviously the case that a vaccine might not be as safe as we're told because things have happened all the way through the history of these interventions. It's plausible that people could have medical concerns or concerns of another kind, particularly in today's financially challenging society, and be coerced into ignoring them because they simply need the money. That is wrong. It's morally wrong. It's obviously wrong, and it literally shouldn't require any explanation. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Hence, this bill should not be the slightest bit controversial. The no-jab, no-pay laws should never actually have been passed. The criteria for conscientious objections are for reasons that are personal, philosophical, religious or medical. Parents would need to speak with their family doctor and receive guidance, as we encourage, on the risks and the benefits of their decision, but if that decision—and we live in a free society—should lie with anyone, it should lie with the parents. That is reasonable. To give an example of why one might conscientiously object from a religious standpoint, there are Christians who hold concerns about the connections between modern vaccines and cell-lines derived from abortions used by vaccine manufacturers. To be clear, different people hold different perspectives on that question. Not everybody who shares Christian views has that concern, but, at the end of the day, there are those, for reasons of conscience, who would simply not prefer to rely on this technology, especially for relatively mild conditions like chickenpox. Now, whether you personally agree with that decision or not, that's a decision that parents should have the right to make. I think it's evident that one's conscience shouldn't be compelled on this due to financial coercion. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">A legal system that's comfortable with overriding people's consciences in this way runs the risk of becoming corrupt. Before no-jab, no-pay, parents had to seek the guidance of healthcare professionals, as I said. In contemporary Australia, there are many parents who would simply have preferred not to vaccinate their children at all with a particular vaccine, but who have been financially pressured into doing so. As I said: that is wrong. If no-jab, no-pay doesn't amount to undue pressure, then, in my view, nothing does. It would, in fact, be irresponsible to assume that the government and pharmaceutical companies only have your best interests at heart, and then, on that basis, you should simply agree with them on every point. Well, it seems to me that that amounts to less scrutiny than what was in place before the mandatory guidance of healthcare professionals who actually knew you and knew your family. Assuming that there is one monolithic concept of 'the science' is just foolish. Different jurisdictions can have different approaches, and it makes sense for there to be some leeway. In fact, it wasn't until very recently that the United Kingdom incorporated the chickenpox vaccine into their schedule. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">But whatever one's reason for conscientious objection, at the end of the day, this is simply an illiberal policy. We don't even really need to argue about a hypothetical scenario caused by this precedent, because we've already lived through it in recent years. We saw the logical trajectory of this precedent play out during the COVID period, and just six years ago, many Australians were told that if they refused to have two doses of an experimental injection that didn't actually prevent infection or transmission of COVID—a vaccine itself responsible for a wide variety of adverse events, including death—then they wouldn't be able to work. That's precisely the kind of scenario that people are concerned about with this no-jab, no-pay law. The reality turned out to be much more dystopian, and it happened much more quickly than anybody could have anticipated. We saw how quickly the slope became slippery once an illiberal, irrational and callous principle was entrenched in our laws.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I hope the Senate will support this principle of conscientious objection. I hope they'll remember the abuses of the pandemic period and be able to see that those were made because of the deletion of conscientious objections in the first place. When we dispense with the conscientious objection principle, we dispense with a vital principle of opposing the abuse of power—something that the left of politics is not always that across. I hope the Senate will elect to support hardworking families who, for valid reasons, conscientiously object, perhaps not even to every vaccine on the schedule, instead of agreeing with a system that has demonstrated that it's okay to coerce Australians into decisions, like we saw during COVID.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Over the last few years, I've received much correspondence from concerned parents about this issue. I know those parents are not reckless or careless about the health of their children. Contrary to what the media would have you believe, these parents are thoughtful, intelligent people who want the best for their children. A few short decades ago, their concerns and their right to have these concerns would have been accepted. Well, what happened? We need to act against the slide of governments into every aspect of our life and preserve our liberties while we still have them. The way in which legitimate and well-founded conscientious objection has been demonised is disgraceful, and we owe it to Australians and Australian families to right that wrong by passing this bill.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>3</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Babet, Sen Ralph</name>
                <name.id>300706</name.id>
                <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
                <party>UAP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="300706" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator BABET</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Victoria</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">United Australia Party Whip</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">09:11</span>):  As a crossbench senator, I only have one opportunity each year to bring a bill up for debate—just one. This year, I chose to bring forward A New Tax System (Family Assistance) Amendment (No Jab No Pay Repeal) Bill 2025. Thank you to Senator Antic for originally introducing that bill in 2025. This bill restores the conscientious objection pathway, which was removed in 2015, allowing parents who object to childhood vaccination on conscientious grounds to formally declare that objection and remain eligible for family tax benefit part A and the child care subsidy. In a free country, which is what this is supposed to be, parents should not be punished because they make lawful and informed medical decisions for their child—not the government's child and not Canberra's child but their child.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Importantly, this bill is not about banning vaccines, not at all. It does not stop Australians vaccinating their children if they want to. It doesn't stop doctors from recommending vaccines. It doesn't stop governments from providing information. It just restores the right of a parent to parent and to object to a medical procedure without the government going ahead and punishing them financially for that decision.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">When the Social Services Legislation Amendment (No Jab, No Pay) Bill was passed in 2015, non-medical exemptions, such as conscientious, philosophical or religious objections, were removed as valid reasons for remaining eligible for family assistance payments. Today, the parents who do not comply can have their family tax benefit part A reduced and their child care subsidy stopped altogether. What does the Commonwealth do? It uses family assistance as leverage to secure compliance with a medical decision.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The bill is so simple. It just restores the previously implemented conscientious objection pathway, where the parent can go ahead and talk about their immunisation with their doctor or whoever else—their recognised provider. They can formally declare their objection and that's it. It's a very simple principle. The government should provide information—fair enough—but, at the end of the day, parents have got to make the final decision. This is a very simple thing. This is something that the Liberal Party should be jumping all over, but I don't know if they will. We'll see later on, because I'm going to call this to a vote today. The government may go ahead and say, 'This is an incentive,' or whatever they might like to say. Do you know what I call it? It's just coercion. That's what it is.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Even the Australian Immunisation Handbook recognises that valid consent must be voluntary and free from undue pressure, coercion or manipulation. How voluntary is a decision when a parent is told, 'You better do this or we're going to cut the financial support that your family relies upon'? It's crazy. Every decent mum and dad—every single one—puts the health of their kids first. Parents who object to vaccinating their children are not acting hastily or irresponsibly, not at all. They've researched. They've spoken to doctors. They've lost sleep. They agonise over what they believe is best for guess who? Their child. Not your child—their child. Some may even have children who have experienced adverse events in the past and they are understandably cautious. That's fair enough. At the end of the day, we don't have to agree with their decision. We don't have to agree with it, but we have to respect their right to make that decision. Freedom is not allowing people to only make the choices that the government approves of. That's not freedom. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Who bears the greatest burden under no jab, no pay? It's not the wealthy families that can absorb the financial penalties. It's the low-income families that need the childcare subsidy, that need the family tax benefit part A. They need it to pay the bills. They need it to put food on the table. They need that subsidy to help them do that. A wealthy parent—what can they do? They can exercise their conscience. They can absorb the cost. But a struggling parent is told: 'You know what? Your conscience has a price tag.' </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Family assistance is supposed to support children. It shouldn't be used as a weapon to force compliance from parents, not at all. A 2004 Australian study found that no jab, no pay was linked to about 49,500 more children becoming fully vaccinated. Some will say that this proves that the policy worked. However, more than 95 per cent of those children came from families who had never registered as conscientious objectors. In other words, simply put, the policy encouraged families who were already willing to vaccinate their children to catch up on missed vaccinations. It did very little—almost nothing—to change the minds of parents who had a genuine objection. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">If a parent has an objection, it's very clear that threatening to take away family payments is not going to change their mind. It just punishes that family. Even if the financial pressure does convince some parents to comply, we should still ask this question: should the government be using financial pressure or financial hardship to force parents into a medical decision which they would otherwise refuse? For a family that earns under $88,520 a year, the childcare subsidy covers about 90 per cent of eligible childcare costs. If they lose that subsidy because their child is not vaccinated, they can lose around 25 grand a year per child. In some cases, it's more than 35 grand a year. On top of that, family tax benefit part A can be cut by around $950 a year for each unvaccinated child—each one. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I heard from a constituent recently who told me what this can mean in real life. She had separated from her husband. She was struggling financially. She had to go back to work, and, because of her objection, she could not receive the childcare subsidy and thus could not afford child care. She told me that the financial pressure forced her to get her children injected as quickly as possible, and, sadly, one of her children suffered an adverse reaction, a severe one. Is that really a free choice, or did the government make it impossible for her to do anything else? That's exactly what is wrong with this law. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">My home state of Victoria goes even further. Under Victoria's no jab, no play laws, children must be up to date with immunisations to confirm enrolment in kindergarten, long day care, family day care and occasional care, subject to some very limited exemptions. Before a child has even reached primary school, access to early childhood education and care can be conditional upon vaccination status. I think it's wrong, and I think it's inconsistent with the spirit of a free country and the rights of parents to make decisions for their own children. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">This Commonwealth bill, obviously, is not going to repeal those Victorian laws. That's pretty clear. They're separate state laws. We all know that. But I hope that Victoria is going to reconsider these laws, because the same principle applies. I keep harping on about it every single day in this place. Parents, not politicians—and certainly not unelected bureaucrats—carry the primary responsibility for their kids. That's it. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">We should also recall what happened when governments confused coercion with persuasion during the COVID years. Mandates, fines, employment consequences and exclusion have created deep resentment and damaged trust between ordinary people and government, and the institutions as well. Whatever senators might think of the measures that were taken during that period, surely we learned that trust, once destroyed, is very difficult to rebuild. How do you rebuild trust? You do it by treating adults like adults. You give people information. You allow questions, and you respect informed consent. You definitely don't build trust by threatening the family budget, that's for sure. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">This bill is modest. It doesn't abolish the immunisation program. It doesn't stop somebody vaccinating their kids if they choose to. All it says is that, if a parent has a genuine objection, they can formally declare that objection and not lose vital family assistance because of it. That's it. We're not going to ask senators in this place whether they personally support vaccination. That's up to you. We're asking a more fundamental question, a more simple question and a very important question: should the government use financial hardship and threats as leverage to secure compliance with a medical decision? Obviously, the answer is no, and your answer should also be no. The government is not the parent—I keep saying it's not the parent. The bureaucracy is not the parent. Canberra doesn't know a child better than that child's mum and dad does, and it certainly does not love that child more. In short, it's this—and I keep saying it and I'm going to say it again: less government, more freedom and more responsibility returned to Australian families. Obviously, I urge the Senate to support this bill, but let's see.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>4</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Watt, Sen Murray</name>
                <name.id>245759</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="245759" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator WATT</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for the Environment and Water</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">09:20</span>):  Unfortunately, the A New Tax System (Family Assistance) Amendment (No Jab No Pay Repeal) Bill 2025 is another example of elements of the Liberal Party falling over themselves to out-One Nation One Nation. We've seen that occur with the Liberal Party following One Nation on illegal tobacco policy and migration policy, and now we see it on health matters as well. What's happening here is that this bill that Senator Antic introduced is seeking to repeal a law that was put in place by a Liberal-National Party coalition government—that's right: Senator Antic's own party, under Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull. The only way this bill has even been brought on for debate today is through the generous donation by Senator Babet of his allotted time to the Liberal Party. It's pretty clear that Senator Antic's party didn't want this debated, and he's had to take up the time that would normally be allocated to Senator Babet. That begs the question of whether the Liberal Party even wants Senator Antic in its ranks anymore. Are they actually happy to have a vaccine sceptic in their party who was literally cheered on by One Nation senators during his speech? Senator Antic has not only taken over the Liberal Party in South Australia but is on track to become its president in South Australia. That is what the Liberal Party of Australia has become.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The Albanese Labor government's position is clear: we have no time for those seeking to reduce vaccination rates in Australia, because let's remember—childhood vaccination saves lives. Vaccines are a highly effective, safe and evidence based way of protecting children from and reducing the severity of serious preventable diseases such as whooping cough, measles and more. What this bill would do if it was passed through the combined support of elements of the Liberal Party and One Nation is reduce vaccination rates and increase the risk and likelihood of diseases like whooping cough, measles and more. That's what this bill would do. Delaying or not accessing the recommended vaccinations under the childhood vaccination schedule could risk a child catching a disease and becoming very sick. Some vaccine preventable diseases cannot be cured and lead to lifelong infection, lengthy hospital stays and the development of other health problems. Childhood vaccinations have greatly reduced and prevented a significant number of deaths since their introduction in Australia. Many of these vaccines work best when herd immunity is achieved because vaccinations, of course, don't just protect kids who are vaccinated; they reduce the risk of disease for other kids that arises from unvaccinated kids mixing in childcare centres and other places. Without high vaccination rates, preventable diseases can spread more easily and put more vulnerable people at risk. This is why the government provides a range of incentives and program arrangements to encourage and support parents, carers and families keeping up to date with the recommended vaccine schedule.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">No-one is forcing children to be vaccinated in Australia if their parents do not consent. All that the existing law does is provide incentives through the social security system to boost vaccination rates. Of course, there are already exemptions available if there is a recognised medical exemption or where vaccination would pose an unacceptable risk to the child or another person. But, given the strong evidence supporting the benefits of immunisation, expanding the list of reasons for exemptions is not something we're prepared to entertain.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">It's worth reflecting, in conclusion, on the massive strides that Australia has made in terms of the health of our citizens through higher vaccination rates. That is the reason that we have seen far fewer cases of diseases like whooping cough, measles and chicken pox—all those kinds of diseases, some of which can be deadly and some of which can be seriously inconvenient and cause other health problems. It is incredibly disappointing to see elements of the Liberal Party, as they have on so many other policy issues, now teaming up with One Nation on health issues in a way that would actually put the health of Australian children at risk. One Nation and elements of the Liberal Party might be up for that, but we are certainly not.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>5</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Steele-John, Sen Jordon</name>
                <name.id>250156</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>AG</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="250156" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator STEELE-JOHN</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Western Australia</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">09:24</span>):  Today I will be speaking to the A New Tax System (Family Assistance) Amendment (No Jab No Pay Repeal) Bill 2025. The Greens will not be supporting this bill today. This policy, now in effect for over a decade, requires families to be up to date with their immunisation in order to access family tax benefit part A supplements and childcare assistance fee support. It requires parents or guardians to make sure their kids are up to date with their jabs. Vaccinations have been transformative for public health across the world. They have saved, undoubtedly, many, many Australian lives. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The Australian Greens support universal access to primary health care and to prevention services, which do include reliable and affordable access to vaccinations. Immunisation is one of the great success stories of the modern world and of public health. The evidence tells us clearly that vaccines protect against a range of viral diseases, bacterial infections and insect-borne, parasitic-borne and bloodborne infections. Australia has an excellent record of achievement in the prevention of disease through immunisation. These are the facts. We have seen a reduction in the instances of and deaths occurring from a range of diseases including measles, polio, tetanus and diphtheria. This policy doesn't remove the right to make a decision not to immunise. We all have that choice. What it does is put a financial cost on that decision. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I do want to say though, as has been said when this policy was established 10 years ago, that there is a concern—and we share the concern—that this policy places a financial penalty on people receiving income support payments. Higher income families are less affected by this policy because they do not receive the family tax benefit. We all know that in this cost-of-living crisis our income support payments are much, much too low in this country, and placing an extra financial impost on people who need financial assistance has the potential to exacerbate inequity among people doing it tough. This is especially unfair. This is a reality that we must acknowledge. When the majority of parents or guardians who have not met vaccination requirements for their children face structural barriers to accessing health care, it is about structural barriers rather than access active refusal. It is unfair that our primary healthcare system has let them down and that they are being penalised as a result of this failure for not accessing health care. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">While mistrust can be a factor for some people, research has shown that larger contributing factors are the cost of appointments, limited appointment availability, healthcare professionals not being available in their area and a lack of opportunities to have discussions about vaccination with their healthcare providers. This is yet another reason that the government must urgently increase the rebate for GP consultations beyond 20 minutes. You can't have a fulsome conversation with a concerned parent or guardian about risks and benefits in a short period of time. You have got to build that trust. You've got to have that conversation. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">To do that and to enable healthcare professionals to do that, you've got to compensate them properly. The government should be increasing availability to and investment in health care to ensure that it is more accessible for people across this country. We need catch-up campaigns. We need local initiatives to improve coverage. We need home visiting programs. These are just a few examples of the things that we need this government to address and to fund in order to remove barriers to access to health care. As I said, we need government to raise rebates for longer GP consults, fund better rural health services, invest in public health education and ensure First Nations controlled health services are adequately resourced. All of these measures will ensure that primary health teams are able to reach kids across the country, including in regional areas. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Additionally, the Greens would like to see the government invest in and commission an independent research study to look at the impacts of this policy. It has been in effect for over a decade. There have been some, but limited, academic evaluations of it, and I think the public would benefit from having an independent study into its impacts. This would give the community confidence in policy settings and the administration of this program, and it would help us make informed decisions about whether settings related to this program need to change, especially in relation to its impacts on driving inequality.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Let me be clear: I do not believe that this bill is being put forward in good faith. Throwing out this policy with no evidence supporting us to do so and with no continued investment in positive encouragement or addressing the public health gaps that are so clear in the healthcare system can leave us with only one conclusion: that this is a scare campaign put forward by people who want to spread fear for their own political purpose with the express intent of reducing vaccination rates and putting kids at risk of diseases, including polio, diphtheria, measles and mumps, just to name a few. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">As such, the Australian Greens will not be supporting Senator Antic's bill today, and I would draw that particular section of the Liberal Party's attention and the attention of the entire Senate to one particular fact, and that is that right now the US health secretary, RFK Jr, is encouraging American citizens to be vaccinated for measles as the US experiences its largest measles outbreak in 35 years. This is the scientific reality on the ground right now. And while I am at it and while I have this opportunity to reinforce and underline some scientific facts, I will say that, after decades of rigorous scientific research, there is still no evidence whatsoever that vaccines cause autism. On that note, I bid this individual and his law fare bloody well.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>6</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Ruston, Sen Anne</name>
                <name.id>243273</name.id>
                <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="243273" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator RUSTON</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">09:34</span>):  I rise to speak against this bill, the A New Tax System (Family Assistance) Amendment (No Jab No Pay Repeal) Bill 2025, which seeks to reopen a loophole this parliament closed for good reason almost 10 years ago. This was a decision of the former coalition government that helped push five-year-olds' vaccination coverage in this country to over 95 per cent by 2020. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">In 2015, the coalition introduced no jab, no pay. The measure removed conscientious objection as a valid reason to opt out of childhood vaccination while still receiving family assistance payments. This was not a new principle.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Full immunisation had already been a requirement for family assistance payments since 1998, so we were not inventing a new form of conditionality. We were closing one specific loophole that had grown from a marginal exemption into a genuine leak in a system that was putting other families at risk. Access to taxpayer funded payment has never been an unconditional entitlement in this country. It's a privilege which comes with some basic responsibilities attached. The policy protects those who, for genuine medical reasons, find themselves in a position where they're not able to be vaccinated and rely on herd vaccination to protect their health. It protects infants too young to be vaccinated themselves, children who are immunocompromised and pregnant women who rely entirely on the choices of the families around them.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The then minister for social services, Christian Porter, drew on his own family history with polio, as his cousin was one of the last children in Australia to contract it. His point was that a hardwon protection can be treated as optional once the generation that lived through the disease it prevented is no longer the one making the decisions. The results of this policy speak for themselves. By 2020, five-year-old coverage had reached the target of 95 per cent, while one-year-old coverage had climbed to 94.8 per cent, nearly reaching the same milestone. That was the result of removing conscientious objection and putting the onus on every family to make an informed, active choice on childhood vaccinations.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I want to be clear about what this policy did and did not do. No jab, no pay has never mandated vaccination. As Tony Abbott put it on the day the policy was announced, people can, if they like, object to having their kids vaccinated, but, if you don't have your children vaccinated, you won't qualify for the supplement. No family has ever been forced to vaccinate a child. No jab, no pay is not a mandate. It does not compel anyone. It simply does not extend a taxpayer funded subsidy on the basis of a choice, and that is the entirety of the extent of it.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">That distinction matters more now than it did a decade ago, because the ground has shifted under us in exactly the way it had before we acted in 2015. Coverage that had peaked over 95 per cent in 2020 has fallen every year since. The Australian Medical Association's analysis this year found a concerning downturn across every immunisation program in this country. As the AMA president, Dr Danielle McMullen, put it, we are already seeing hospitals operating beyond their capacity. Now is not the time to let more infectious diseases back into the community. We are already living with the consequences.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Whooping cough notifications reached their highest level in 35 years across 2024 and 2025. Measles cases in Australia have been climbing sharply too. Reopening conscientious objection now, at the exact moment coverage is falling and diseases are returning, would not be a neutral act. It would help accelerate that decline. I ask every member in this place to think about this seriously, because the impact of this proposal would not just sit with the individual families who make the decision. It sits with the infant too young to be vaccinated in the same library storytelling group, the immunocompromised child at the same cinema session and the pregnant woman in the same community. Conscientious objection was not removed to punish parents. It was removed because it was used to bypass a system that protects children who have no say in the matter at all. Now is not the time to step back. The coalition will oppose this bill.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>7</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Whitten, Sen Tyron</name>
                <name.id>317026</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ON</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="317026" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator WHITTEN</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Western Australia</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">09:38</span>):  I rise to support the A New Tax System (Family Assistance) Amendment (No Jab No Pay Repeal) Bill 2025. Compulsion has become commonplace. When a government can't convince people of a program's benefit, it turns to coercion. That is the story of no jab, no pay, and it is why this bill is before us. The changes proposed here are not new. They restore rights that families held until 1 January 2016. Before those amendments, a parent with a conscientious objection to the standard vaccination schedule could still receive childcare payments and family tax benefit part A. This bill puts that pathway back. It allows people to make an informed choice about the medical treatment their children receive.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">A conscientious objection, as this bill defines it, is a personal, philosophical, religious or medical belief that a vaccination, under the latest edition of the standard schedule, should not take place. A recognised immunisation provider must certify in writing that they have discussed the benefits and the risks with the parent. The parent must then declare the objection in writing. The parent is informed. The parent is then empowered to make the decision they believe is best for their child. This is an informed choice the parent is empowered to make.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Prior to the changes to the law, there were between 30,000 and 40,000 conscientious objectors registered in Australia. With the passage of that amendment, thousands of families had to give up their right to choose. Over time, this place has layered law upon law that takes autonomy away from parents. In the vast majority of cases, parents are the people best placed to decide what is right for their children. For decades, the government has stayed out of the inner life of the family. We let parents do their job and parent. We let them make the decisions personally, because blanket rules can go awry. Governments can always go sideways and the majority can get it wrong. A free society does not treat the family as subordinated to the state. The family unit is the very building block of a free society.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I understand that people have strong feelings about vaccination. Many believe some sacrifice of individual autonomy is required for the greater good. We have already seen what happens when we ignore autonomy and coercion takes its place. COVID-19 was the ultimate social experiment in that method. We learnt what happens when government promotes compulsion, ignores bodily autonomy and encourages people to treat one another as disease vectors. We were told the vaccinations were safe and effective. We watched manufacturers rake in $200 billion in revenue while experts, media and politicians pushed every citizen towards the needle or towards punishment and ostracism. People were locked out of ordinary life. They were shunned if they had not been vaccinated. I was working away when Western Australia locked its borders. I was kept out of my own state and treated as a threat.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">But, slowly, through the great work of citizen journalists and sceptics that refused to be silenced, the truth came out. It turns out these vaccines weren't safe, as we'd been promised, and they certainly weren't effective. But by then it was too late for people who had been injured by a vaccine they never wanted. Many would never have taken that jab if the price of refusal had not been their job, their travel or their place in the community. They couldn't even see family members that were dying in hospital. That is what horse-trading rights looks like—'Give up bodily autonomy and you may have your freedom of movement back.' That is a bargain struck under duress and false compliance. But, when the truth came out, all those responsible said that there was never any compulsion. We have not forgotten. There will be a reckoning. This amendment is a step in the right direction.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The worst feature of the current law is that it rations the right to choose by income. Families who are not eligible for family payments can refuse the schedule and keep their money because the state is not holding a payment over their heads. Families who need a hand up are told that assistance comes at a price. They have to surrender the right to decide what is placed in their child's body or lose the support that's designed for the worst off. We said we would help those families. Then we attached a medical condition to the help. If the science is as settled as advocates claim, they should be able to win the argument without docking the payments of low-income parents. If the schedule is so clearly in a child's interest, persuasion and information should be enough.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">There is also a practical point. The 2016 changes did two things at once. They abolished conscientious objection and they extended the immunisation test well beyond early childhood. This bill restores the objection and treats a child aged seven or older as meeting the requirement. That is a return to the principle that family assistance should not be a running penalty through adolescence for a decision made when a child was small.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">None of this requires anyone to change their own mind about vaccination. Parents who want to vaccinate will still be able to vaccinate. Doctors will still advise. The National Immunisation Program will still exist. What would change is the state's willingness to use the family payment system as a bludgeon against parents. If we learned anything from the last few years, let it be this. There is no emergency so tidy and no majority so confident that we should force people to give up the right to choose what is right for them and their families. Rights that exist only for people who can afford to lose a payment are not rights; they are privileges. This bill returns the right to choose. It removes a form of government coercion that falls hardest on the families we claim to help. This bill should be supported.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>8</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Roberts, Sen Malcolm</name>
                <name.id>266524</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>ON</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="266524" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator ROBERTS</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">09:44</span>):  Thank you to Senators Babet and Antic for this bill, A New Tax System (Family Assistance) Amendment (No Jab No Pay Repeal) Bill 2025, which One Nation wholeheartedly supports. The bill simply provides for the conscientious-objection clause to be restored to the A New Tax System (Family Assistance) Act 1999, which will allow children who are not fully immunised to access social security.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Specifically, this will allow families whose children may not be vaccinated to access the childcare subsidy and the family tax benefit part A supplement without facing financial penalties. Under this amendment, if a parent files a written declaration of a conscientious objection and an immunisation provider certifies they have discussed the risks and benefits, the child is legally deemed to have met the immunisation requirements. This provision only applies to age seven, after which the child is deemed to meet the schedule irrespective of vaccination status.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">This bill is sensible. It's fair. It restores the fundamental principle that parents make decisions for their children—not governments. Childhood vaccination rates in Australia are currently at a 12-year low, dropping below the federal government's target of 95 per cent. Vaccination rates at 12 months are 90.5 per cent, down 4.3 per cent over the last five years. At 24 months, the rate is 88.4 per cent, and, at 60 months, the rate is 92.5 per cent. According to the latest data from the National Centre for Immunisation Research and Surveillance, approximately 80,000 children under the age of five are not fully up to date with their standard childhood immunisations.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The timing of this fall is no coincidence. Immunisation was a major casualty of Australia's criminal response to the COVID scandal. It turns out that, when you force vaccination on people and destroy the careers, businesses and, in some cases, marriages of those who refuse, many people do not react with acquiescence. They react with understandable suspicion, distrust, resentment and anger. They saw the harm people were experiencing from the COVID injections, they look at the harm some childhood vaccines are causing, and they ask, 'What else have our authorities lied to us about?'</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The reduction in support for vaccination takes two forms. Firstly, parents are increasingly choosing not to give some or all of the schedule to their child. Secondly, parents are delaying the shots until their baby is older. For instance, in 2025, two in five children received their first measles, mumps and rubella, or MMR, dose later than recommended. That's 40 per cent.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">When looking at vaccination rates across Australia, national averages can be highly misleading. The national average sits at around 91 per cent, although this does not mean every area is vaccinated to that level. There are growing regional differences. The drop in vaccination rates is not happening evenly across the country.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The National Centre for Immunisation Research and Surveillance map data from the Australian Immunisation Register onto a standard unit called an SA3, statistical area level 3. This is important when comparing vaccination rates in one area against those in another. Five years ago, more than half of all SA3, statistical area level 3, areas had reached or exceeded the 95 per cent target. Today, the number of SA3 areas meeting that target has plummeted to just 18 per cent—less than one in five. This shows that the fall in confidence in vaccination is happening right across the country.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">It can be argued that these SA3 areas with vaccination rates below 95 per cent no longer have herd immunity. Herd immunity has come under scrutiny following the failure of the COVID vaccines, the COVID injections, the COVID gene therapy treatments, to effect herd immunity, despite the level of coercion which went into achieving very high vaccination rates So far, this healthy scientific re-examination has shown measles, mumps, polio and rubella vaccines can achieve herd immunity because their outer shell is stable over time.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Many countries, including the United States, have found the level of preservatives in the MMR vaccine is too high for safety and require those shots to be given separately and spaced out. One Nation supports that position. Viruses like COVID and influenza mutate rapidly and, as society proved with COVID, do not allow for herd immunity. This was conventional science before our COVID response tore up the rule book and threw out the science. Surprisingly, the areas of lowest vaccination are not in rural and regional areas. They are in growth corridors and inner-city areas. That's interesting. Conservatives are frequently blamed for lower vaccination rates, yet where are the lowest rates? They're in inner city left-leaning electorates. Vaccination rates in the bush, though, can be delayed, owing to distance and scheduling.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Growth corridors are showing lower vaccination rates, and this is where the babies are and where mothers live with concern about government agencies' actions dishonestly compromising their precious babies' health. The bill does not address the issue of unvaccinated children attending child care. State governments control that policy. New South Wales, Victoria, South Australia and Western Australia all have laws preventing unvaccinated children attending child care. Queensland allows the centre to make the decision. The ACT, Tasmania and the Northern Territory have no regulations similar to no-jab no-play. Vaccination status is not relevant to child care. Canberra always makes rules for others that it does not impose on itself. Recall Commonwealth agencies inhuman, antihuman, immoral, dishonest COVID restrictions and lies contrary to the science. This is interesting. If vaccination status is critical to keeping children safe, we would see New South Wales, Victoria, South Australia and Western Australia having lower disease rates than the ACT, Northern Territory and Tasmania, who allow vaccinated and unvaccinated children to mix. Not surprisingly—to me anyway—there is no difference in disease rates between the states on average over time. Don't you just love competitive federalism? I sure do!</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">If you look at the raw infection numbers that the Australian Centre for Disease Control, the CDC, publishes, New South Wales regularly records the highest numbers of whooping cough and measles cases in the country. This may be because Australia does not screen new arrivals for vaccination status. For clarity, new arrivals are those visa types which are counted towards net overseas migration. Although the same no-jab no-play rule covers children of the net overseas migration and Australian children, when new arrivals apply for permanent visas, they come under the migration medical examination, which does check their vaccination status and requires makeups where required.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">What's the take-home here? We go to all this trouble to achieve childhood vaccination, then we let in millions of new arrivals and don't even ask their vaccination status. For the record, India and China have vaccination rates higher than ours. Pakistan is down at 80 per cent, and Somalia and Yemen are at 50 per cent. I've asked about this in Senate estimates hearings and always get nothing answers—crap—and that's the problem. Unless we can talk honestly about these issues, confidence in health authorities will continue to plummet. Their hubris will be fatal to public health. We also know is that we have a 35-year high in whooping cough, pertussis, notifications and public measles alerts. Something is going wrong, and we have every right to ask about it.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">One Nation has concerns around no-jab no-play laws. In medical ethics the relationship between coercion and vaccination is a complex topic, with two competing ethical duties—respect for individual autonomy and the duty to protect public health. In Australian clinical practice, coercion is against ethical guidelines. Under the <span style="font-style:italic;">Australian Immunisation Handbook</span> for a patient to give legally valid medical consent that consent quote 'must be given voluntarily in the absence of undue pressure, coercion or manipulation'. A doctor cannot ethically use physical force, direct threats or deception to compel a patient to take a vaccine. Doing so violates the foundational bioethical principle of autonomy, and that's the right of an individual to make decisions about their own body. It is this autonomy Senator Antic's bill seeks to strengthen, with the re-inclusion of a conscientious objection. As such, the bill fits perfectly within the existing legal and ethical vaccination framework. Here I must make the point that during COVID this fundamental protection against coercion was torn up and ripped to shreds with apparent glee from our health authorities, who revelled in operating in an environment without ethics. The very people who should have displayed ethics instead chose hysteria with an added layer of financial gain.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The fundamental rule here is that, if you ignore the rule on informed consent, the risk—in this case, COVID—has to be proportionate to the measures taken. The vaccine has to be proven safe and effective. The measures taken must be the least necessary to be the least infringement on the code, and, finally, the measures have to be necessary. The COVID immunisation agenda met none of these four tests—not one. The COVID shots were not tested. The skimpy so-called testing was done on a different version of the vaccine to the one actually sold in Australia. The term 'safe and effective' was two lies. They were not safe; they were not effective. And we know the health agencies and departments knew that at the time. I'll say it again: we know the health agencies and departments knew at the time that they were not safe and effective. They were not necessary. Vaccinating for influenza has never worked and did not work in the case of COVID, and, lastly, they were not the least infringement on the code. Ivermectin and similar accessible, affordable, safe drugs were proven safe and effective yet were banned by our health authorities.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The Australian Health Practitioner Regulation Agency, Ahpra, should have acted to defend the rights of patients and stood in defence of informed consent, which is supposedly an Ahpra objective. Instead, they chose to police medical practitioners to ensure none dared to follow the Australian Immunisation Handbook guidelines. Ahpra tried heavily and determinedly to ensure health practitioners did not comply with the Hippocratic oath. These dishonest travesties Ahpra continue today.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Secondly, childhood vaccines have never been tested for safety against an inert placebo—never—which is what is required by the ICH Guideline for Good Clinical Practice E6, which Australia's Therapeutic Goods Administration, the TGA, has ratified. Australian vaccines have not been tested against this standard. Instead, the TGA, in Senate estimates hearings, relies on the lack of reported serious adverse events to assume vaccines are safe. Despite there being high levels of adverse events such as autism that parents associate with the vaccines, the authorities, with no examination, brush off that the cause is vaccines. It's this, more than anything else, that's causing a loss of confidence in vaccination. A One Nation government will require this safety testing to be done and, given the significance of the exercise, fund the trials, in the public interest.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Finally, under America's health and human services secretary, Robert F Kennedy Jr, the US Department of Health and Human Services and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the CDC in America, announced an unprecedented revision of the routine childhood immunisation guidelines, shrinking approved vaccines from 17 to 11. Australia has 14. This move is currently blocked in American courts after the pharmaceutical industry fought back. I hope the measure is approved, as it will provide a very immediate answer to the question of a potential link between childhood vaccines and adverse events that agencies with connections to big pharma currently and blindly do not accept as being vaccine related.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Greg Beattie's excellent book, <span style="font-style:italic;">Fooling</span><span style="font-style:italic;"></span><span style="font-style:italic;">Ourselves</span>, provides a proper statistical evaluation showing that the incidence of childhood diseases and their effects plummeted before the vaccines were released. That means that vaccines were not the cause of the near eradication of the diseases. Rather, it seems that improved hygiene, improved sanitation and improved nutrition were the causes of falling disease incidence. It means that there will be no harm in not forcing childhood vaccines—no harm.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">In summary, parents have every right to be wary of the harm these products may be doing to their children. They have every right to exercise their religious or conscientious objections to forced vaccination. They should not be treated differently for not having vaccinated their children in whole or in part. And childcare centres should be free to make the decision to accept or not accept vaccinated or unvaccinated children. One Nation will proudly support this bill.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>10</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Bell, Sen Sean</name>
                <name.id>319142</name.id>
                <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                <party>ON</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="319142" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator BELL</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">One Nation Whip</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">09:59</span>):  I move:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">That the question be now put.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Question agreed to.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="e68" type="MemberInterjecting">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT </span>
                    </a>
                    <span class="HPS-GeneralBold">(</span>
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Sterle</span>
                    <span class="HPS-GeneralBold">):</span>  The question is that the bill be now read a second time.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal"> </span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
            <interjection>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>10</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Sterle, Sen Glenn (The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT)</name>
                  <name.id>e68</name.id>
                  <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                  <party>ALP</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </interjection>
          </speech>
          <division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [10:03]<br />(The Acting Deputy President—Senator Sterle)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>6</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Antic, A.</name>
                  <name>Babet, R. D.</name>
                  <name>Bell, S. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Hanson, P. L.</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M. I.</name>
                  <name>Whitten, T.</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>34</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                  <name>Ananda-Rajah, M.</name>
                  <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                  <name>Bleyer, V. E.</name>
                  <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A. D.</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                  <name>Darmanin, L.</name>
                  <name>Dolega, J.</name>
                  <name>Dowling, R.</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                  <name>Gatenby, C. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Ghosh, V.</name>
                  <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                  <name>Hodgins-May, S.</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J.</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M.</name>
                  <name>McKim, N. J.</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, M. A.</name>
                  <name>Payman, F.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A.</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                  <name>Shoebridge, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                  <name>Stewart, J. N. A.</name>
                  <name>Walker, C.</name>
                  <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                  <name>Whiteaker, E.</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names />
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived. </p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division>
        </subdebate.2>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Universities Accord (Opening the Doors of Opportunity) Bill 2026</title>
          <page.no>11</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <a href="r7501" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Universities Accord (Opening the Doors of Opportunity) Bill 2026</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>11</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Second Reading</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Consideration resumed of the motion:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">That this bill be now read a second time.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>11</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">O'Sullivan, Sen Matt</name>
                <name.id>283585</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="283585" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator O'SULLIVAN</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Western Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Deputy Manager of Opposition Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">10:06</span>):  As I was saying, this bill penalises providers who exceed their allocated number of Commonwealth supported places beyond a small buffer. That creates a number of adverse consequences and even perverse incentives. It means universities are incentivised to turn students away so they do not risk going over their cap. It also means that taxpayers pay more to educate the same number of students. The evidence was that this bill could result in taxpayers paying $540.8 million more to educate the same number of students. As drafted, it means universities can actually be penalised if they lift their retention rate. That is perverse. It incentivises the universities not to improve. It should change, and the coalition will move amendments in this space.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The fourth issue that I want to address here in the time I have remaining is that the coalition is really against this ministerial overreach. We have belled the cat on this issue. We pointed out that, under a little-known section of the bill called section 36-65, the minister would have the power to impose any condition on any university at any time in relation to any matter whatsoever. The university would then be compelled by law to comply. This power was non-reviewable, non-disallowable, did not require consultation, could be used retrospectively and was entirely unilateral. As initially drafted, it covered any issue whatsoever. The government has tinkered around the edges with this in the House to slightly narrow the scope, but the central problem remains. It is overreach and, frankly, it should just go.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The fifth issue in this bill is the question of quality and transparency. In this respect, the bill has missed an opportunity. It is a chance to emphasise quality—to put it at the heart of what drives our higher education system and steers the ATEC. But the bill just doesn't really address this issue. Quality should start with the overarching objective that guides our national tertiary education system. Right now, that objective, introduced by this government, mentions social development and environmental sustainability. What it does not mention are teaching, learning, research and scholarship, let alone innovation, productivity alignment with the needs of business and industry, student experience, Australian values, efficiency and the reduction of regulatory burden. These things shouldn't be controversial, and so that's why we'll add them. It's a sensible improvement that is in our national interest.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">There are other parts of the bill which could also be explored in depth, but, in the interest of time, I'll just mention two more. In the last sitting fortnight, we saw antisemitism once again take centre stage in this parliament and across the nation. We saw the royal commission into antisemitism close without calling the protest organisers, the key leaders in the arts and the university sector or any other government ministers. We know how bad antisemitism has become in this country. We've seen it. We've seen it taken to extremes, and it looks like 15 people murdered on Bondi Beach.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The bill was an opportunity to set a clear national benchmark on antisemitism across every Australian campus. The International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance definition of antisemitism—that's what we should see. How can you fight antisemitism if you can't even agree on what it is? The IHRA definition is the same benchmark that the Commonwealth government, the state and territory governments and the royal commission itself use. It should apply on campuses as well. In effect, we ask the government to vote with their own policy.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The final issue is about private providers. On this side of the chamber, we support independent education. We support competitive neutrality, and we will move amendments to put independent providers on the same footing as universities when it comes to consulting about international students, and we will move amendments to list providers who have met all the requirements, as listed in table B universities. That should be a no-brainer.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>11</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Brown, Sen Carol</name>
                <name.id>F49</name.id>
                <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="F49" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CAROL BROWN</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Tasmania</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">10:11</span>):  I rise to support the Universities Accord (Opening the Doors of Opportunity) Bill 2026. This bill is about opening the doors of our universities to more Australians and making sure that, once students get through those doors, they have the support they need to succeed. In February 2024, the Albanese Labor government released the final report of the Australian Universities Accord. It is a blueprint for higher education reforms over the next decade and the decade after that.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The accord recommends that, by 2050, at least 80 per cent of the working-age population have a tertiary education. That means more people going to TAFE and more people going to university, and it means we need to start building that system now. The government has already implemented more than 30 of the accord's 47 recommendations in full or in part. We have made HECS better and fairer by cutting 20 per cent from student debts, capping indexation at the lower of CPI and WPI, raising the minimum repayment threshold and moving it to a marginal repayment system. We have introduced paid prac for teaching, nursing, midwifery and social work students. We're doubling the number of university study hubs, with 20 new regional university study hubs and 14 new suburban university study hubs. We have increased the number of free university bridging courses, introduced the National Student Ombudsman and the National Code to Prevent and Respond to Gender-Based Violence, made demand driven Commonwealth supported places available to all First Nations students who meet the entry requirements, and established the Australian Tertiary Education Commission as a steward of the tertiary education system.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">This bill takes the next major step. The Australian Universities Accord recommended a new approach to funding higher education, planned and managed through the Australian Tertiary Education Commission, as well as a stronger focus on increasing the numbers of students from backgrounds that have historically been underrepresented at university. This bill delivers on that recommendation through a new managed-growth funding system and demand driven needs based funding. Together, these changes represent an additional $3.6 billion investment in higher education over the next decade and are expected to support an extra 230,000 commencing domestic university students between 2027 and 2036. That is a significant expansion of opportunity. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The managed growth funding system will better align Commonwealth funding with the number of students universities actually enrol. Importantly, it will effectively uncap the number of places for students from low socioeconomic backgrounds and regional areas. Higher education providers will also be supported to transition to the new funding system. That matters because talent and potential are not determined by a postcode, a family income or whether your parents went to university. For Tasmania, this is particularly important. We are a regional state, and where someone lives should not determine whether a university education feels within reach. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">But opening the door is only one part of the job. It's not enough simply to increase the number of students who enrol. We also need to make sure students have a genuine opportunity to succeed once they get there. That is where needs based funding is so important. Universities will receive additional funding to support students from economically disadvantaged backgrounds, First Nations students and students studying at regional campuses. The principle is straightforward: the more students a university has who meet those criteria, the more funding it will receive to help those students participate and succeed. It is similar in principle to needs based funding in our schools.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The bill sets a base equity amount of $1,535 and a base regional amount of $1,398. In some cases, that will be more than double the amount of funding provided per student compared with similar previous programs, where the average amount provided could have been as little as $600. Universities will be able to use that additional funding in practical ways. It can go towards tutoring, mentoring and other academic supports. It can provide direct financial assistance through scholarships and grants, and it can help meet the higher cost of operating campuses in regional and remote areas. Getting into university is only the beginning. If we are serious about opening the doors of opportunity, then students need to be supported not just to enrol but to stay, succeed and complete their qualification. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The bill also formalises ATEC's role in allocating Commonwealth supported places. It establishes a framework for ATEC to allocate international student places where the Minister for Education makes an international allocation pool determination, and it makes technical amendments to improve information sharing between the Commonwealth Ombudsman, the Tertiary Education Quality and Standards Agency and ATEC. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Since the bill was introduced, the government has continued to listen and work constructively with the sector and across the parliament to strengthen these reforms. The government is moving amendments that will require ATEC to consider student demand when allocating Commonwealth supported places. The amendments will also clarify that a student's eligibility for needs based funding is not reassessed each time that student enrols in an individual unit. They will reduce or remove the scope of some ministerial powers relating to designated courses and designated course allocations. The amendments will also confirm that only areas categorised as non-metropolitan under the ABS remoteness structure will be eligible for the regional contribution amount. These amendments do not change the purpose of the bill. They strengthen the way the new system will operate. They respond to issues raised through scrutiny of the legislation and provide greater certainty for students and universities. I welcome the fact that these reforms are attracting broad support across parliament. Reform of this scale should be built to last. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The central purpose remains clear: Australia needs more people with tertiary qualifications. We cannot meet that need by continuing to draw university students from the same parts of our population. We need more people from regional communities to have the opportunity to study. We need more people from low socioeconomic backgrounds. We need more First Nations students. When those students take up that opportunity, universities need the resources to help them succeed. The universities accord itself was informed by more than 820 public submissions and extensive consultation. Further consultation on the managed growth funding system and needs based funding involved universities, higher education peak bodies and other organisations across the sector.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">For Labor, education has always been about opportunity. Australia should be a country where every generation can aspire to something better, and education is one of the most powerful ways we make that possible. It can be the path from disadvantage to opportunity. It can open doors that might otherwise remain closed. It can give people the chance to fulfil their potential regardless of where they grew up or what their family circumstances are. We know ability is not confined to any one postcode or background. The opportunity to use that ability should not be either.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">This bill will support more Australians to get a university education, it will provide additional support to students who need it most and it will help build the skilled workforce Australia will need in the decades ahead. For Tasmania, my home state, it means more opportunity for students from regional communities and more support to help them succeed. That is good for students, good for communities and good for Australia. I commend the bill to the Senate.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>13</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Faruqi, Sen Mehreen</name>
                <name.id>250362</name.id>
                <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                <party>AG</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="250362" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator FARUQI</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Deputy Leader of the Australian Greens</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">10:21</span>):  Universities should be fee free and fully funded for teaching, learning and research. No student should live in poverty while studying or be burdened with a lifetime of debt. Higher education, like all education, should be a public good built on equity and democracy. These are the basic propositions that shouldn't be hard to achieve in a country as wealthy as ours. But this Labor government keeps choosing to keep students poor and in debt. Labor's decision to continue the Liberals' uni fee hikes and funding cuts forces students to take on crushing debts in crowded classrooms at unis too often beset by governance crises. Staff are battling wage theft, job insecurity, course cuts and, increasingly, the threat of executives seeking to replace them with AI.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">As the cost of living worsens and students cry out for help, the test for any higher education legislation that speaks the language of opportunity is whether it rises to these challenges. The Universities Accord (Opening the Doors of Opportunity) Bill 2026, as it stands today, does not meet that challenge. It falls far short of delivering the change university students and staff deserve, both in policy design and in funding. The bill promises equity, yet, four years after being elected, the Albanese government still refuses to address higher education's most egregiously inequitable policy—the Liberals' fee hikes and funding cuts, which have sentenced students to forever debts and fifty-four thousand dollar arts degrees and priced out low-SES students, whose commencements have decreased by almost 10 per cent. This policy alone has cost students at least $2.1 billion in the past four years.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">How can you all sit here and tell students that you are opening the doors of opportunity when support payments like youth allowance and Austudy are well below the poverty line? When you're forcing students to starve just to afford their degrees, all while with the cost-of-living crisis is increasing under your watch, how is that opportunity? Tell me, what door is it that you are opening for students? It certainly isn't a door to an affordable home with food on the table. Labor can dress this bill up in words like 'equity' all it likes, but the bill itself does nothing to change the fact that too many young people are struggling through uni or have stopped going to uni altogether.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The committee inquiry into this bill made clear that there are many things in this bill that need to change, relating to student choice, growth, ministerial powers, postgraduate students, international students, equity students—and on the list goes. My team and I have been through these with the minister and his office, with good faith from both sides, I might say, and I will be moving amendments to address many of these issues. It's not just a couple of amendments but pages and pages of amendments. You do have to wonder why a bill that needs so many changes was even brought into parliament in the first place.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The higher education sector is in such crisis that it has been cornered into accepting the bare minimum, cornered into accepting crumbs when what is needed is a bigger pie of funding. If the Albanese government is serious about improving equity, then it needs to get serious about fully funding fee-free higher education. I urge the education minister to keep pushing the Prime Minister to invest much more in the future of higher education and our young people and our country. Otherwise, we'll always be doing gymnastics without actually solving the real problem.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">A primary concern I and many others have had from the start is the bill's potential to curtail student choice. Students may not get a Commonwealth supported place, CSP, at the university and course of their choosing because places are capped. Instead, the minister and ATEC are attempting to funnel students into institutions and courses they may not want to go to—and to do what? To patch funding holes of the government's own making because they refuse to fund universities. The Greens will be protecting student choice by ensuring that ATEC must take student demand into account when setting allocations and by expanding the overenrolment provision from a hard cap to a buffer.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">This bill also allows the minister to set CSPs for a designated course to zero. You can just imagine that under—God forbid!—a coalition or One Nation government they would seek to ban degrees and courses that they don't like in the name of being against 'wokeness'. No minister should ever be able to tell a student what they can and cannot study. The Greens will be bringing an amendment to remove this provision.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The problem is not where students are choosing to study but decades of Labor and the coalition deliberately underfunding and cutting funds to higher education. Universities, staff and students are bearing the brunt of this. Our regional universities are also suffering. If regional universities are to thrive and be attractive to students, they must be fully funded, including through dedicating funding for infrastructure and research investment. That is actually what the accord recommended, not this half-assed response that we have today. Tying funding to student places and hoping that they will come is not really a solution.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The Greens support needs based funding, yet the funding could all be squashed by one single section that allows the minister to set the equity support amount provided to university to zero dollars. You cannot say that you are providing needs based funding and then leave it open for a future government to make that funding zero. The Greens will be moving an amendment to fix this.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">In the inquiry, we also heard countless witnesses share the absurdity of the bill calculating the applicability of needs based funding at the time the person enrols in the unit. This means that a low-SES student living in a regional area who moves to the inner city for university is apparently no longer disadvantaged. So we are going to rectify this perverse application as well.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">It appears that Labor has sought to limit the eligibility of needs based funding to as small a cohort as possible. The only reason for this is their refusal to fund universities properly and fully or even fund every equity student a Commonwealth supported place in the degree and university of their choosing. Instead, they would rather splurge and waste hundreds of billions of taxpayer dollars on fossil fuel subsidies and non-existent nuclear submarines. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Numerous submissions from universities, students, the NTEU and academics raised concerns that the current definition of a low-socioeconomic student is inadequate and unfit for purpose, utilising an outdated postcode determinant. The planned definition does not account for income, employment, family education history, occupation, housing, caring responsibilities, cultural barriers, disability or language proficiency. The Albanese government's response is, 'We'll look into it.' Well, you've had four years in government to look into it and you have fallen short yet again. This bill was the perfect opportunity to fix this outdated and blunt measure. I do hope that Labor is sincere when it says that it will now start this work.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">A highly criticised aspect of this bill is an overall lack of accountability and transparency combined with excessive ministerial powers. We will be moving a number of amendments that go some way to addressing these issues. ATEC will be required to publish its reasons when making allocations, and the minister's unfettered power to make conditions on funding grants will be removed. This power could have been used to further crack down on students raising their voices for justice for Palestine, for example, or even forced universities to adopt the highly controversial IHRA definition of antisemitism, which conflates criticism of Israel with antisemitism. The interventionist precedent this power would create should alarm everyone, and it is unacceptable to the Greens. We will be removing the section.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The bill, as it stands, allows the minister to set a course and provide a level of allocations for international students. There are people in this chamber who, if they had this power, would actually set this allocation to zero. I think you all know who I am talking about here. Unsurprisingly, this is the Albanese government having another swing at migration policy and trying to disguise it as education policy. As Mr Richard Lee from the Council of Australian Postgraduate Associations shared, 'International students are not a tap to turn on and off.' The continual scapegoating of international students for the government's own policy failures is damaging. It causes harm to students and migrants. Minister Clare has admitted that international-student visa fees, tripled since 2024, are being used to fund the accord reforms. International students are not cash cows or political playthings.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The Albanese government must stop wrecking international education to pander to One Nation's racist, antimigrant stance. It is disappointing that the government decided not to support expanding the evaluation of the act to include reviewing the allocation of international students. Their politicisation of international students trumps good policy once again, and it is students and universities who will suffer. The Prime Minister is really in a shameful race to the bottom with One Nation on migration, and he's made it clear that he doesn't care about international students being collateral damage or about our higher education system suffering.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I want to go to postgraduate students for a minute. With the exception of First Nations students, the bill excludes postgraduate students from needs based funding. While the bill allows a university to determine how it uses its allocation of CSPs, tying needs based funding only to undergraduate students creates a perverse incentive for universities to use all, or a large portion, of their allocated CSPs for undergraduate students. Needs based funding must cover the full pipeline of university education and all equity students, without which the door will remain tightly shut to postgraduate degrees and to research as well.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Without the Greens in the Senate, this bill would have handed the minister of the day diabolical interventionist powers over higher education, placed unacceptable limits on student choice and failed to deliver equity. I want to thank my team, especially Sienna and Lauren, who have worked so hard for us to get to this outcome today, with 12 amendments being made in the Senate and a couple in the House. The 12 amendments we have secured demonstrate the importance of the Greens in the Senate.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I'll finish where I started. This bill has no additional funding beyond what is already budgeted for universities. For a sector whose expenditure totalled $43.1 billion in 2024, a mere $3.66 billion over the next decade is crumbs. If the Albanese government wants to improve equity, they must repeal the fee hikes and funding cuts they've kept on the books for four years—not in two years time, but today. We will not see true equity in Australia's higher education system until universities are fee-free and fully funded for learning, teaching and research. All I ask is that the Prime Minister give young people what he himself enjoyed: free education at a well-funded public university. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Opening a door will not do much good until and unless the government addresses student poverty, abolishes student debt and increases student support payments, PhD stipends and housing affordability, all of which impact students' ability to walk through the door and out the other end having completed their degrees. We know there is so much work to be done to ensure staff have the governance structures to be able to run their universities democratically and the resources, pay and conditions for world-class teaching and research and to ensure students have the best learning conditions and are not crushed by ever-increasing fees and debt. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">It is possible; the only thing standing in the way is the Albanese government. The Greens will always put students first. We will continue to fight for universities and institutions to serve the public good, not to serve the government or the corporations of the day. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">With that, I move the Greens' second reading amendment:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">At the end of the motion, add ", but the Senate:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(a) notes that:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(i) students and young people are facing the worst of the cost of living crisis, and 'opening doors' for students is not enough if they are not supported to complete their studies,</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(ii) students are being shackled by a lifetime of debt which is making the cost of living crisis worse, locking people out of the housing market and crushing dreams of going to university,</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(iii) the punitive Job-ready Graduates scheme fee hikes, which have led to $54,000 arts degrees, have now been in place for longer under Albanese's Labor Government than they were under the Morrison Government,</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(iv) while degree costs skyrocket, student payments like Austudy and Youth Allowance remain well below the poverty line,</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(v) higher education, like education at every level, is an essential public good that should be free, accessible and equitable, and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(vi) all students undertaking mandatory placements should be paid for every hour of work they are required to do, at least at minimum wage, not a lesser supplementary amount; and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(b) calls on the Government to:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(i) invest in, and fully fund, higher education for leaning, teaching and research,</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(ii) increase Austudy and Youth Allowance,</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(iii) wipe all student debt and make university and TAFE fee-free for all,</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(iv) urgently reverse the fee hikes and funding cuts of the Job-ready Graduates scheme, and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(v) pay all students doing mandatory placements at no less than minimum wage rates".</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>15</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Smith, Sen Marielle</name>
                <name.id>281603</name.id>
                <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="281603" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator MARIELLE SMITH</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">10:36</span>):  I also rise to speak on the Universities Accord (Opening the Doors of Opportunity) Bill 2026. The Australian Universities Accord final report was released in February 2024 and outlined the blueprint for higher education reform over the next decade and the decade after that. Over the next few decades, the University Accord says that the number of people in the workforce with a certificate, a diploma or a degree will need to increase by about 80 per cent—that means more people at TAFE and more people at university. It is critical that, as a government, we act now to help set up our tertiary education system to deliver on Australia's future skills needs. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The Australian Universities Accord final report found that significant changes are needed in Australian higher education to produce the skills, knowledge and intellectual ambition to meet the challenges that Australians face now and into the future. The Australian Universities Accord recommended adopting a new funding model for higher education that is planned and managed by the ATEC through mission based compacts. It also recommended increasing the number of higher education students from underrepresented backgrounds, matched by a focus on the success of these students. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">This bill directly responds to the recommendations and findings of the accord by enshrining a needs based funding model in legislation to help support students from low SES backgrounds, First Nations students and those studying at regional campuses to get into university, complete their studies and graduate with a qualification. The bill also embeds the new managed growth funding system to support growth in domestic students and formalises the role of the ATEC in allocating Commonwealth supported places and international student places. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The new managed growth funding system will effectively uncap the number of places for students from low socioeconomic backgrounds and regional areas. The new system will address existing issues in the higher education funding system and will better align Commonwealth funding with enrolments. As a result, it is estimated that an extra 230,000 domestic students will commence university over the next decade. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Demand-driven needs based funding will provide extra support to students who come from economically disadvantaged backgrounds, First Nations students and students studying at regional campuses. Under this new needs based funding system, the amount of funding per student will more than double next year, in some cases. That's extra funding universities will be able to put towards things like tutoring, mentoring and other academic support; direct financial assistance, like scholarships and grants; and offsetting the higher costs of campuses in regional and remote areas. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">These changes inject an additional $3.6 billion into Australia's higher education system over the next decade to increase the number of students at university and to meet Australia's future skills needs. These measures have the potential to be truly life-changing. They change the course for so many young Australians who recognise and want to access higher education and all that it can offer. Of course, not every Australian wants to go to university, and that's fine. For those who do, their ability to access higher education should not be defined by where they live or where they were born. This is about fairness, and it's about creating a more sustainable, more equitable education system for all of those Australians who choose to access it.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The Senate Education and Employment Legislation Committee, of which I am chair, conducted an inquiry into this bill. The inquiry spanned two months and received 62 submissions from a diverse range of stakeholders, including public universities, peak bodies, and staff and student representative organisations. I would like to thank all of the senators who participated in this inquiry. I thank Senator Faruqi, who is in the chamber, for her constructive engagement with it. I'm not sure if I'm allowed to reflect on you, in the chair, Senator O'Sullivan—</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="283585" type="MemberInterjecting">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT </span>
                    </a>
                    <span class="HPS-GeneralBold">(</span>
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator O'Sullivan</span>
                    <span class="HPS-GeneralBold">):</span>  I'll allow it!</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="281603" type="MemberContinuation">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator MARIELLE SMITH:</span>
                    </a>  but I acknowledge your work on the committee and the work of all of the members of that committee. As usual, we were able to conduct an inquiry which had a great degree of civility, and I appreciate the engagement and work of all senators on it.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Throughout the inquiry, there was broad support among participants for the bill's intent to ensure that more Australians can access and succeed in higher education, regardless of their background or where they live. The committee heard that the managed growth funding system will ensure the higher education system is sustainable and directed to the priorities of the nation. We also heard that needs based funding is one of the most important improvements to university funding in a generation and that it has the potential to be the most significant and enduring reform arising from the universities accord.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">However, the committee also heard concerns that the bill lacked a legislative floor of student places and provided the minister with additional powers. The committee noted that the Minister for Education listened to the concerns of the sector and noted his work in moving amendments in the House of Representatives to clarify provisions of the bill, limit ministerial powers and increase transparency. Nonetheless, the committee did acknowledge the concerns around ministerial powers and the definition of 'low-SES student' and encouraged the government to consider undertaking further work to address these matters.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Overall, this bill is another meaningful step to implement the recommendations of the accord. So far, the Albanese Labor government has implemented more than 30 of the accord's 47 recommendations in full or in part. We have made HECS better and fairer. We've cut the HELP debt of all Australians with a student loan by 20 per cent, wiping $16 billion in student debt. We have capped indexation on HECS debts to the lower of CPI and WPI, moved to a marginal repayment system and raised the minimum repayment threshold.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">We've established the Commonwealth prac payment for the first time to support teaching, nursing, midwifery and social work students while they are completing their practical training at university, and now we're expanding this important program. On 1 July 2027, the Commonwealth prac payment will be expanded to include more students undertaking mandatory placements in priority disciplines, including physiotherapy, paramedicine, clinical psychology, radiography and pharmacy. I've talked to a number of these students, who are absolutely delighted at what this will mean for their ability to stay engaged with their studies, continue on their course and be able to make ends meet while they undertake this critical training, which will lead them to work in professions which we all benefit from and which we all need.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Previously, we heard from students who were left with no choice but to resign from their paid part-time jobs to attend their placements or who had to move back home, if that was an option, because they simply could not cover the rent whilst juggling their placement and their paid work. For those students, these changes are absolutely life-changing. They're not just relevant to the students who receive that payment—these are students undertaking training in professions that we all need. They're undertaking training in the professions that care for us now and into the future. I think it's a really important policy, and it's one that is being received very well. I'm absolutely delighted that we have extended it to those skills as well.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Our government has also doubled the number of university student hubs by establishing 14 suburban university study hubs and 20 new regional university study hubs, one of which I was proud to open just recently on Kangaroo Island in my state of South Australia. Now students in Kingscote can remain connected to their families and community whilst also investing in their future by undertaking university-level studies close to home. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I've visited a number of these study hubs right around our state, both those in regional areas and the suburban ones. When you talk to the students who are utilising them it's really extraordinary, because we know it's often students from remote areas or from the outer suburbs, in South Australia in particular, who find it particularly difficult to take up university education with the pressures on the cost of living. Just being able to move away from home to undertake studies is out of reach for too many young people. I was really fortunate to be able to leave Adelaide with a scholarship when I was young, at 18, and go study interstate, but that is becoming less and less possible for young people now, given the cost of rent and the cost of living, which can make that difficult. To have these study hubs close to home means you can still participate and engage in a university education but hopefully live with mum and dad or live in an area with more affordable rents or live in your local community. For instance, Kangaroo Island is a fair way from the mainland. To be able to stay on the island makes a big difference for those students.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">It also has an impact, we know, in the retention of those young people in their community afterwards. When they're studying for those degrees and those qualifications which local communities need, there's a greater likelihood that they'll stay there if they also stay for their education. The one up at Elizabeth is doing fantastic work. I give a shout-out to Matt Burnell, the member for Spence in the other place, for his advocacy in getting that established. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">We've also established the National Student Ombudsman and the national code to prevent and respond to gender based violence. Earlier this year, we formally established the Australian Tertiary Education Commission, the ATEC, as a steward of the tertiary education system. These are all really important reforms in higher education. They form part of the broader spectrum of work we're doing in education from those very early years right through to tertiary education.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I'm a bit of a broken record in this place on how I believe investment—particularly in the early years but right through the spectrum of education—creates absolutely life-changing, transformative potential for individuals and benefits all of us. We all benefit as a nation when we invest in the education of our young people, whether that's investing in our young children at preschool learning to read and write and count and sing and the impact it has on their later education or investing in tertiary education and the skills that Australia needs and the skills that our workforce needs.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">It's not just about the individual who receives that education; it's about the contribution that they then are able to go on and make to our nation, whether it's in the caring professions, in the medical professions or in our broader economy and the sectors which are growing and changing and employing Australians. It benefits all of us when we have a highly skilled, highly educated workforce, and it benefits all of us when every young person in Australia is given the opportunity to reach their full potential and make their fullest contribution. That's why investment in education is so important. It's not just a social policy measure; it's absolutely a fundamental economic measure and productivity measure. We are doing some really important work as a federal government in this space. This bill represents part of that agenda. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">So, again, I'm really proud to chair the committee that looked into this bill. I'm very grateful for the engagement of all the senators who come to that committee with the same degree of passion for our education sector and what we can do to make it better. Of course, we will at times have differences of opinions in how to do that, but it's important work. It's nation-building work. I think this bill is very, very important because every Australian who chooses to go to university should have that opportunity and that option that's good for them and is good for all of us. Achieving this new funding system will be essential in meeting that goal and helping Australia meet its future skills needs. On that basis, I commend the bill to the Senate.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
            <interjection>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>16</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">O'Sullivan, Sen Matt (The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT)</name>
                  <name.id>283585</name.id>
                  <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                  <party>LP</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </interjection>
            <continue>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>16</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Smith, Sen Marielle</name>
                  <name.id>281603</name.id>
                  <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
                  <party>ALP</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </continue>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>17</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Payman, Sen Fatima</name>
                <name.id>300707</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>AV</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="300707" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator PAYMAN</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Western Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Australia's Voice Whip</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">10:48</span>):  The Universities Accord (Opening the Doors of Opportunity) Bill 2026 is an important bill and one that I'll be supporting. But it's also a bill that misses some of the problems affecting Australians who choose to pursue higher education. The increased funding, particularly for cohorts who have historically faced more adversity when seeking to attend university, is welcome. This follows the investment from the government in the expansion of the Commonwealth prac payment scheme to a number of new disciplines, including physiotherapy, speech pathology, radiography and pharmacy. As a former pharmacy student, I understand how intensive and time consuming these courses can be, so I welcome this expansion, which comes into effect as of 1 July 2027.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">However, one cohort which missed out from the scheme was medical students. When people think of medical students, they associate the highly paid career that studying medicine leads to with a student body of relative affluence. While this is the case for some, as in all disciplines, it isn't true for all. I've heard harrowing tales of the poverty that some medical students experience in order to meet their placement requirements. These young Australians who are working towards the goal of being able to serve and help our communities are missing meals, sleeping in cars, considering and attempting suicide and taking on a mountain of debt. Why have these students been left behind?</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">This bill provides for needs based funding grants to higher education providers to support, among other groups, Indigenous students. The Australian Medical Students' Association found that one in two Indigenous medical students will drop out because they aren't able to support themselves through placement. If the government were serious about supporting First Nations people to become doctors, they would support them not only to get to university but to make it all the way to graduation. In a country as rich and as fortunate as ours, how are we letting these students down so badly? It just isn't good enough.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">For some students, their troubles don't end at graduation. The Senate Education and Employment References Committee has been examining outcomes for Australian university graduates. That report is due to be tabled in November. I don't intend to pre-empt its findings, but I want to share a few stories from submissions received by the committee. Many young Australians, particularly those in fields like information technology and computer science, feel like they have been sold a lie. I discussed this during a debate on the inquiry, and numerous submissions refuted what I said. They said there was no promise that a university degree would entitle young Australians to easy employment. Indeed, a university education should not be looked at solely as a process by which a job is acquired, but to say that there is no contract, implicit or otherwise, between universities and young Australians is just not right.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">'Learn to code' was an oft repeated mantra of the late 2010s and early 2020s. One graduate outlined in a submission to the inquiry what following this advice had led to:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">I am a recent computer science graduate from the University of Queensland. I completed a Bachelor of Computer Science in 2023 and then completed an additional thesis-based honours year in 2024, graduating with First Class Honours. Despite this, and despite securing an internship during my studies, I have been unemployed for over a year, from most of 2025 through to mid-2026.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">A student who graduated at or near the top of their class, with internship experience, has been unemployed for more than a year. How is that possible? Something is clearly wrong, and yet the submission from the graduate's alma mater, the University of Queensland, contends:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">A university education remains a great investment …</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The graduate's submission notes that, in 2024, a third of computer science graduates had not achieved full-time employment within six months of graduating, more than double the rate for nursing and engineering students. Another important point is made by the submission:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">… Australia's R&amp;D expenditure sits a critical low of <span style="font-weight:bold;">1.68% of GDP</span>, well below the <span style="font-weight:bold;">OCED average of 2.7%</span>. The <span style="font-weight:bold;">United States more than doubles us at 3.8%</span>, <span style="font-weight:bold;">South Korea more than triples at 5.13%</span>. This is during the time of a global race of potentially one of the most important technologies in history.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Graduates of the sciences are keenly aware of this. Unless you want to research new ways to extract iron ore or make things that kill people, a career in science outside of academia usually entails a move overseas.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Another submission illustrates how graduates find themselves in a job market where the odds are stacked against them. Mr Nasir, a graduate of the University of Sydney, outlines his experience applying for an entry-level data analytics position with his current employer:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The hiring manager appreciated my initiative to meet him in advance and promised to keep a tab on my application. After applying, I waited for my call-up to an interview, but it never arrived. I later found out that at least 220 applicants applied, of which only 10 were longlisted, and only 5 were progressed to the interview stage. I made it into the top 10, but my experience at the time was not enough to compete with the top 5 shortlisted for the interview.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Competing in such a field for what is supposed to be an entry-level position puts a graduate at an inherent disadvantage from the outset, when ads for these roles inevitably attract applications from individuals with more experience than a graduate can hope to have. This leads to an inflation of requirements for entry-level positions, which, again, defeats the purpose. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">A concern that was frequently raised is the use of international students as cash cows to fund universities. The inequity of international student enrolment is considered by Emeritus Professor Richard Heller, who submitted that international students do not reflect global needs for higher education:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Individual ability to pay fees appears to be the driving force, and universities attract who they can and who will pay fees. The pattern of enrolments serves no clear strategic purpose for Australia, or the need for boosting a country's knowledge stock; it has become an income generation exercise for Australian universities. Universities rightly fear the vulnerability of their heavy reliance on international student fees to cross-subsidise teaching and research.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The government has indicated that it wishes to reduce the number of international students coming to Australia each year. This bill and the funding for domestic students that goes with it somewhat softens the blow for the universities, but the development of the reliance of universities on international students occurred over a period of many years, and the process of returning university funding to a more stable footing will take time. This bill will support some Australians to attend university, but I think it will leave others behind. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Much more also needs to be done for Australians who graduate university to help them achieve their maximum potential. This is good not only for the graduates but also for the economy. Modelling by Pearson suggests inefficient education-to-work pathways cost the economy $12.5 billion a year. Unless we work to develop the conditions necessary for a robust and complex economy, we will remain a country that digs rocks out of the ground and makes matcha for one another, leaving us at the mercy of international conditions. A sound university system with genuinely strong graduate outcomes and a private sector with a level of R&amp;D investment which encourages graduates to stay in Australia will result in a more complex economy which is more resistant to external shocks.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>19</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Dowling, Sen Richard</name>
                <name.id>55842</name.id>
                <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="55842" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator DOWLING</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Tasmania</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">10:58</span>):  I rise to support the Universities Accord (Opening the Doors of Opportunity) Bill 2026. Like a lot of legislation that comes to this place, there is a fair bit of machinery underneath that title. We're dealing with concepts like managed growth funding, needs based funding and the Australian Tertiary Education Commission. But the principle underneath it is pretty straightforward. Where you grow up should not decide how far you can go. Your parents' income should not decide whether a university is for you, and living in Burnie, Queenstown or Smithton should not mean that higher education is something that only happens somewhere else. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The universities accord makes clear the scale of the challenge ahead of us. By 2050, around 80 per cent of working-age Australians will need some form of tertiary qualification—a certificate, a diploma or a degree. That does not mean, though, that everybody needs to go to university. It means we need more people at TAFE and more people at university, because Australia is going to need more nurses, teachers, engineers, technicians and skilled workers. So this is about opportunity, but it's also about productivity. If we want higher wages and a stronger economy over the next 20 or 30 years, we need to build that skills base now. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">That is why this government has already implemented more than 30 of the accord's 47 recommendations, either in full or in part. We've cut HECS debt by 20 per cent and made indexation fairer. We have raised the minimum repayment threshold and moved to a marginal repayment system, and we've introduced paid prac for teaching, nursing, midwifery and social work students. We've also expanded the university study hubs and free bridging courses, established a National Student Ombudsman and opened the first demand driven Commonwealth supported places for First Nations students who meet the entry requirements.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">This bill is the next big structural step in that tertiary reform program. It establishes a new managed-growth funding system and demand driven needs based funding over the next decade. These reforms will inject an additional $3.6 billion into higher education and are expected to support around 230,000 extra commencing domestic students. That's not simply about creating more places; it's about opening more places to people who have historically been least likely to get one—students from lower socioeconomic backgrounds, First Nations students and students in regional Australia.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Under the new system, places for low-SES and regional students will effectively be uncapped. Universities will also receive more funding when they enrol students who need more support to succeed. The principle is similar to what we have with needs based funding in schools. The greater the need, the greater the support. The base equity amount will be $1,535 per eligible student, and the base regional amount will be $1,398. In some cases, that is more than double what universities received per student under comparable previous programs, and that funding can be used for support in tutoring, mentoring, scholarships, grants and the higher costs of providing education in regional communities.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">For Tasmania, that piece matters enormously. The University of Tasmania is our only university. In many respects, it operates as a whole-of-state university system. UTAS has told the Senate inquiry that it supports this bill and regards needs based funding as one of the most important improvements to university funding in a generation. Its central point is also a sensible one: supporting disadvantaged students means supporting the institutions and campuses that reach them where they live. Sixty per cent of Tasmanians live outside of Hobart. UTAS campuses in Launceston and Burnie, along with regional and online delivery, are often the pathway that lets people study and build a career without having to leave their community.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The evidence shows why that matters. UTAS reports that its Tasmanian campuses have very strong participation from low-SES students. Its regional campuses, in particular, reach Tasmanians who've traditionally been much less likely to access higher education. Indigenous participation is also above the national average across UTAS's Tasmanian campuses. An extraordinary figure is from UTAS reports in Burnie—20 per cent of its first and second year medical students are Indigenous, more than 140 nurses completed the Bachelor of Nursing on the north-west campus over 2024 and 2025, and the first pharmacy graduates from the north-west are now all working in the north-west region. That is what regional higher education can do. It builds a workforce, it keeps skills in the community, and it helps put nurses in hospitals and health professionals in places that have struggled to recruit them and where they're needed most. There are human stories underneath those numbers too. Take Cleo Gower, who was able to study nursing on the Cradle Coast campus. She was among the first to graduate in Burnie and now works as a registered nurse at the North West Regional Hospital. That is opportunity becoming workforce capacity in the same community.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">UTAS has also raised constructive questions about the further implementation steps behind this bill. It has made the case for recognising the real cost of smaller scale regional delivery, for making sure disadvantage is properly recognised as students move through their studies and for ensuring bridging and outreach programs can help people become ready for tertiary education. These are important considerations as ATEC and the funding guidelines put this new system into practice because opening the door is not enough if a student cannot get to the door. A university place only matters if students can afford to take it up, if they have the support to succeed and if they can access the course in the first place.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I also want to be clear about what these reforms are not. These are not about lowering standards. Students will still need to meet rigorous entry requirements. They will still need to do the work. They will still need to pass the subject. What this bill does is tackle barriers that have too often had very little to do with ability, issues like family income, geography and whether someone happens to live close to a large metropolitan campus. Addressing those structural barriers is good social policy.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">As an economist, I also see this as good economic policy. Australia cannot reach an 80 per cent tertiary attainment rate by educating the same people from the same places in the same way. Tasmania cannot afford to leave talent sitting on the sidelines because someone grew up in the wrong postcode, and regional communities cannot build the workforces they need if the only path to a qualification is to leave. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">This bill changes the funding system so that growth follows need, support follows students and opportunity is spread fairly. That is the direction set by the universities accord, it is the direction this government is delivering and it is a direction that matters deeply for Tasmania. I commend this bill to the Senate.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>20</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Pocock, Sen David</name>
                <name.id>256136</name.id>
                <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
                <party>IND</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="256136" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator DAVID POCOCK</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Australian Capital Territory</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Independent ACT Whip</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">11:06</span>):  I'd like to start by saying that I welcome the Universities Accord (Opening the Doors of Opportunity) Bill 2026 and the reforms it contains to how we fund universities, and I intend to support it. However, the very clear consensus from evidence presented to the Senate committee inquiry is that it needs amendments before it should pass the Senate.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">First and foremost, while fixing how we fund universities, the bill does nothing to address student contributions and the crushing debt impacts from Job-Ready Graduates. After four years in power and having railed against Job-ready Graduates in opposition, it should be unbelievable—unfortunately, it isn't—that the Albanese government have failed to act on JRG. First they kicked it to ATEC. Now ATEC is saying there'll be no advice until next year and no change until 2028 at the earliest. In that time, students will continue to accrue $50,000-plus debts for a humanities degree, a degree that we know is more important than ever in the face of AI.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I'm moving an amendment that would seek to expedite this process. The overwhelming consensus from the Senate inquiry was that the most concerning thing about this bill is the extraordinary powers that it gives the current minister and any future minister to intervene in our universities. While some of these powers have been wound back, they remain excessive. I believe further amendment is required specifically to remove ministerial power to set course-level caps for international students, cap demand-driven places for Indigenous students and set provider-specific funding conditions. As a Senate, we should be a check on executive power and we should fight tooth and nail not to provide this level of power to any future minister. These sorts of changes should be subject to scrutiny. They should have to come through this parliament and be judged by elected representatives on behalf of the people that send them to this place.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">In circumstances where this bill passes unamended, QUT highlighted the potential perils and vulnerability to politicisation of standard university operational decisions. I'll quote from their submission. It said:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The Bill would create an avenue for stakeholders dissatisfied with such decisions to seek Ministerial intervention in operational matters that should remain within established institutional governance processes.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">It said the existence of these powers:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">… would encourage stakeholders to seek Ministerial intervention whenever an institutional decision becomes contentious. Refusing to intervene could then become as politically consequential as intervening.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I don't understand why the minister would even want these powers. Can you imagine the lobbying that it opens them up to and the public criticism where they do or don't make a decision that may or may not be ideologically aligned with a certain group? Not only could a minister ban a specific course for ideological reasons or at the behest of a vested interest; they could also mandate that certain courses be taught. Given what we've seen overseas, it's really not hard to imagine a government banning all sorts of things, such as welcomes to country or pride events on campus, or interfering with what universities teach about climate change, genocide or the Holocaust. No government should have this sort of power to impose ideologies on our universities. As Doctor Byron succinctly put it, while the government could be worried about a future rogue Senate, the Senate should be worried about a future rogue government. That encapsulates the concerns about handing this sort of extraordinary power to the minister.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Both I and the coalition will move an amendment that would seek to remove these powers. In my second reading amendment, I talk about the need to better define equity. The University of Canberra highlighted the shortcomings with the current definition:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">… the ACT is largely excluded from the Government's Needs-based Funding model, with no support for Low Socio-Economic Status (Low SES) or regional students. Proposed methodology of using Low SES does not recognise any disadvantaged University of Canberra students from the ACT. We have not received support funding in 2026 for most of our disadvantaged students and now expect to be underfunded into 2027. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The 2021 Socio-Economic Indexes for Areas (SEIFA) are not adequate in identifying disadvantage in the ACT. Using these tables there are no Low-SES areas in the ACT. This is a product of good urban planning but statistically hides disadvantaged individuals.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Canberra has pockets of extreme disadvantage, and this needs to be recognised. We have to have a system where students who need more support get it and universities who need to provide that support are provided with additional funding to do exactly that. This really rough way of calculating low-SES or regional students just doesn't cut it. We have to do better as a country in terms of collecting data and ensuring that universities like the University of Canberra aren't missing out.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The purpose of this bill is managed growth, but, as experts like Doctor Andrew Norton highlighted, 'the bill does not appropriate any new funding for additional student places'. He said:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">By contrast, the bill has two new features that will reduce how many student places universities can offer.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">This clearly stands in contrast to the stated aim of managed growth. Another of my amendments seeks to set a floor in the total allocation pool. A further concern is around parliamentary oversight. The two determinations that set the size of the whole system, the domestic total allocation pool and the international pool are expressly exempt from disallowance. Every decision beneath them is declared not to be a legislative instrument, including place allocations, core and growth determinations, and international allocations. We should not be allowing this as a Senate. We should have a say on these decisions of the executive. They should be up for debate. They should be up for disallowance. I urge fellow senators to ensure that we do not hand these powers to the executive in perpetuity. One of my amendments seeks to change this and give the parliament, rather than the minister of the day, oversight of these crucial matters—crucial not just for our university sector but for the future of our country.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I'd like to thank my team for the huge amount of work that they put into this bill and this inquiry. Based on the evidence provided to the Senate Committee, I requested 23 amendments to this bill, all based on what I'd heard from the university sector and from experts. Unfortunately, at the time of making these remarks, only five have been circulated, and I note the Greens are yet to circulate any amendments. For a bill this important, I think it speaks to a failure of process. As senators, we need to have the opportunity to move amendments to bills, and that requires access to drafting in a timely way that enables us to discuss with colleagues and to seek support before the bill is in the Senate like this. I'd like to thank those in the drafting office for the amazing work that they do. We know that you're under the pump. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">But, as a crossbencher, again I would like to raise with the government, with the President, the lack of drafting resources for the crossbench. I can't speak of how the major parties experience it, but, as a crossbencher, it is incredibly difficult to get anything drafted in a timely manner, and I don't think that's good enough for our democracy. Elected representatives, regardless of where you're from, who you're here representing or which state or territory you're representing, should have access to drafting, where you can put forward your amendments in good faith, have conversations with colleagues, and then, when it comes down to it, they're either supported or not supported.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Finally, I'd like to thank the committee for all their work and stakeholders for their comprehensive, detailed and constructive submissions on this legislation. Too often the public does not see the genuinely good faith work that happens in this place—the collaboration and the collegiate way that Senate committees can work a lot of the time, obviously not all of the time. I think we should continue to highlight that as senators. So while I have these concerns, I thank the government for the direction they are heading in, and I commend my amendments to the Senate. I foreshadow my second reading amendments.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>22</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Shoebridge, Sen David</name>
                <name.id>169119</name.id>
                <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                <party>AG</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="169119" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator SHOEBRIDGE</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">11:17</span>):  I rise first of all to acknowledge the work of my colleague Senator Faruqi in this space, endorse her comments and particularly note the raft of concerns about this bill that remain unaddressed including the genuine cost-of-living crisis that we know students are facing with ever mounting HECS debt. I haven't spoken to a student who remembers getting a haircut on the HECS debt, but I've spoken to plenty of students who are looking at a lifetime of debt for simply wanting to get an education to contribute to society. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">We still don't see a solution for the so-called Job-Ready Graduates scheme that saw these appalling cost hikes for arts degrees. It was a conscious attack from the coalition to dumb down our universities and to attack critical thinking. We're five years—it feels like forever—into a Labor government, and they still haven't addressed that despite repeated offers from the Greens to solve that. Degree costs have continued on their upward path. Student payments remain below the poverty line. These are the core issues in the university sector that despite the name on the box of this bill—it's called the <span style="text-decoration:none underline;">Universities Accord (Opening the Doors of Opportunity) Bill 2026</span>. Again, as we know, the doors of opportunity are very narrowly open under Labor, particularly for students who don't have family support, those who are first generation at university, those who are considering career that isn't in the finance sector or a highly paying sector but is essential for our society like teaching, nursing, social work, critical thinking. They're the ones who continue to be under the gun despite five years of a Labor government. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">There's one other thing that I think absolutely needs to be addressed with urgency in the university sector, and it's playing out in university campuses in my home state of New South Wales. It's playing out on the campuses of the University of New South Wales, of the University of Sydney, of UTS, of Macquarie University, but I know it's playing out across universities Australia wide. While there's talk of building opportunities—what this bill talks about—what students and academics are facing right now are universities reaching for AI to dumb down degrees, to replace staff and to put at risk the reputations of some of our finest institutions. Last week, the University of New South Wales said it had signed this so-called strategic partnership with OpenAI—a US owned, tech-bro owned vampire company who has no interest in building Australia's education sector, who has no interest in educating Australians and who definitely has no interest in our universities being competitive. Without putting any guardrails in, without talking to the staff and without articulating what the strategic partnership will mean for job security, for the quality of degrees, for teaching, they make this big announcement. This is the statement that UNSW made:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The collaboration, one of the largest AI education deployments in the Asia-Pacific region, aims to help ensure graduates are equipped to use AI critically, ethically and effectively.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Who are they partnering with? OpenAI, the same US tech-bro owned corporation that let its agents escape the sandbox and run wild.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">What are the what are the checks and balances being proposed here? Where are the restraints in how our university sector rolls out AI to endanger our research capability? It's not all upside with AI. There's serious risk of deskilling our researchers, rogue AI agents taking that research and heading off heaven knows where. There's complete silence from this government about—not a whisper about one of our premier universities and, at different times, one of our highest ranked university on global ratings uncritically rolling out a foreign multinational AI player right throughout its universities in what it describes as 'the largest AI education deployment in the Asia-Pacific'. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">That's not a good news story. That's a flashing-lights warning story. It's not just that. Less than a week after that, the University of Sydney made an announcement as well. The University of Sydney comes out and talks about 'a university-wide investment in AI to ensure every student and staff member has free and equitable access to advanced AI tools'. And then we get this guff:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Tomorrow's leaders will also need to understand AI's ethical, social and environmental impacts, and possess the ability to work with this technology critically and responsibly. We will support you for that future by providing equitable access to advanced AI tools.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Whatever the University of Sydney's Vice President of Operations, Ms Gower, might say about it being a human centred approach to AI, ask the staff—the academics, the people who are going to have to deliver for this. How they see this deal of the University of Sydney with the same bunch of US tech-bro AI vampires is as a threat. Because, at the same time that the university went out and made its announcement that they're going to be incorporating a foreign owned AI into every aspect of the university's operations, the NTEU members, the people who actually have to teach, do the research and undertake the critical thinking at University of Sydney, were out on strike seeking enforceable consultation protections around AI. This is how this is how managerial and out of touch management at our universities is—these vice-chancellors and their cronies that hang around them, paid a million bucks a year and more. I think, in Sydney, they also get a free, posh residence. You get a million bucks in your bank account and a free, posh residence if you're the vice-chancellor in Sydney, and then you use that privilege to roll out AI and take away the jobs of the actual teaching staff.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">And we get Labor coming in here with their—what is it named?—Universities Accord (Opening the Doors of Opportunity) Bill. Well, under Labor, the door's been opened to vampire, US owned AI to come and march through our universities and take away jobs, destroy the critical thinking that we're going to need for our students and continue to empower the managerial class to run through our universities.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I want to say, on behalf of my party, the Greens, that we stand in solidarity with the NTEU members who are on strike, asking for genuine, enforceable consultation protections before universities like Sydney or UNSW enter into these multiyear deals. And we want to make sure that they're enforceable rights so that the vice-chancellors on their million bucks a year and their $500,000, $700,000, $800,000 per annum human-development staff-squashing managerial teams don't get to destroy our universities. The only door of opportunity that seems to be opening here is the door of opportunity for US big tech to come in, deskill and put at enormous risk some of our most important institutions.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I would urge the government to go and look at what the community thinks about this and the lack of action on protecting our universities from the rollout of US owned AI, because you have a look at the comments on social media about Sydney university's post and they're not saying: 'Oh, amazing—wonderful opportunity. I'm glad you've invited these robber barons in to come and attack our university.' They're calling it 'despicable garbage'. They're calling it 'fascism-maxxing'. They're naming it for what it is.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">There's some marginal good in this bill. The marginal good is great. But there's this massive risk, and it's not academic; it happened last week—the week before this bill got rolled in to literally destroy the integrity, the reputation, the qualities of our universities, because, under Labor, US big tech, US AI companies, are marching through our universities, and the staff are on the front lines fighting it, going into industrial action, saying, 'You can't do this without us.'</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">What's the answer from Labor? Nothing, because it turns out that the same big tech companies that are talking to the vice-chancellor at Sydney university and schmoozing with the vice-chancellor at UNSW are in there with a ready-access door to the Prime Minister, trying to do a job on creatives and trying to get a red carpet to roll out their AI vision right across this country—to steal our water, our power and our data and, in this case, to have that march through some of our most important institutions.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Unless this government is willing to come and work with the Greens to address the risk of AI through our universities—you can pass as many 'opening the doors of opportunity' bills as you like, but, unless we address the risk of foreign owned AI through the march of our institutions, this won't amount to a hill of beans.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>23</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Whitten, Sen Tyron</name>
                <name.id>317026</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ON</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="317026" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator WHITTEN</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Western Australia</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">11:29</span>):  The Universities Accord (Opening the Doors of Opportunity) Bill 2026 is dressed up as opening doors. What it actually does is hand the keys to Canberra. It is disheartening to see universities being asked to give up their autonomy and just as disheartening to see how many of them are eager to oblige.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Until now, universities have decided how many students they would teach and in what courses. While that hasn't been perfect, it was, at least, guided by competition. Popular, high-quality universities grew because students chose them. Unpopular ones had to lift their game or shrink.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Minister Clare calls that the hunger games. He says this bill ends it. What he calls hunger games is actually a market. Competition drives quality and innovation. Students vote with their feet. Universities that deliver quality teaching and better outcomes attract more of them. Universities that do not don't. We want that contest. We don't want student places doled out by the bureaucrats in the Australian Tertiary Education Commission. Let the universities compete on their merits.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">But, to Labor, merit is a dirty word. They only talk in terms of equity, where they sit on high and decide what is fair. They decide which groups are deserving of funding. This is the political capture of our higher education system. We opposed the ATEC legislation on exactly this point—an independent commission in name but a central planner in practice. The government had to peel back some of the minister's most naked powers after the sector and the Senate pushed back on this bill.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Make no mistake. A great deal of control remains. The minister still sets the total pool. The minister can vary it. Those determinations are not disallowable. Labor has stripped out parliamentary oversight of these figures. It's not surprising that they don't want that oversight. After all, the Labor government's record on overseas student numbers is abysmal. Under this government, Australia has, by far, the highest number of foreign students per capita in the world. Around 2½ per cent of our population are international students—one in 40 people. That's two to three times the level of places like New Zealand and the UK. Under Labor's watch, almost 30 per cent of our student population are international students.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Where is the fair go for Australian students? We're hearing about tutorials and lectures being held entirely in foreign languages because the majority of the students are from overseas and don't speak adequate English. That's completely unacceptable. At the University of Sydney, now, over half of the students are foreign students. At the University of New South Wales, it's 47 per cent. This has been complete mismanagement, on the side of Home Affairs, of our student load and ensuring Australian students get the first look-in.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">ATEC must allocate its placements with regard to government priorities. The minister can, once again, steer the ship. The minister still has the power to impose conditions on university funding. Labor have shown their fondness for aggressively expanding ministerial powers. Look at the powers they want to hand the Minister for Communications. They want their ministers to be able to determine what online harm is. They want them to have full control over what we can and can't see online. The government becomes more totalitarian with every passing bill, aided and abetted by their buddies in the Greens.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">There are some elements of this bill that are worthy of support. One Nation supports help for students who are genuinely disadvantaged but meet the standards to attend university—regional kids who face higher costs through accommodation or travel, students from lower income families who need a leg-up. We understand and support helping these kids into university, provided they have met the standards to be there. This is not based on identity; it is based on the circumstances of the students.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">But this bill, in line with Labor's identity politics, goes further. It builds extra money around cohorts defined by the colour of their skin and by postcode, and it leaves the detail of 'equity groups' to guidelines that can be altered without changing the act. This means that, down the track, a minister could alter the needs based funding grants guidelines to add whatever they like. This opens up our university funding to political games and favours. Need is a very subjective measure, and, if the political carrot is there, it can be a very malleable subject. Any additional funding should follow only genuine need and academic readiness, not immutable characteristics, not race or gender. Equality of opportunity is a laudable goal. Equality of outcome—that's the 'equity' term that's bandied about in here—always results in worse outcomes for all.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The committee evidence given by universities on this bill is inconvenient for the government's story. The cohort that continues to lag badly on course completions is the existing demand driven cohort. Throwing more money at a category does not magically lift attainment. It can do the opposite. Universities chase the money. They enrol students they are not set up to support or those who don't meet the standards, simply to chase the additional funding. In these cases, unsurprisingly, we are seeing poor results for these cohorts. Those outcomes are not positive for the failing students. Completion rates stay poor, the student is left with debt and no degree, and the university keeps the loading. That is the outcome of a pervasive incentive.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">There are also issues with how the money is directed. At present, it goes to the university, with only loose guidelines around how they have to use it. It is only primarily, not exclusively, for support services, which leaves room for it to be used on the other programs.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">If you want to reduce barriers to entry for students with genuine needs who have met the standard, send the money to the student. Who better to decide whether they need rent help, a laptop or help with travel costs than the person actually sitting in the lecture theatre? Instead, universities receive the grant and are trusted to spend it on wraparound services. We already know what it looks like: bloated administrations, DEI officers, gender departments—entire units that have nothing to do with teaching a student how to be a nurse, an engineer or a teacher. Student money and taxpayer money disappear into the bureaucracy black hole. Slim the administrations down. Stop wasting the surplus on ideology.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">This bill would be useful if it could put a cap on the number of student visas, but, sadly, Labor couldn't even bring themselves to include this. An oversubscribed university may continue accepting international students, and ATEC merely takes that into account in the following allocations—no penalty, no punishment. We will continue to see Labor pumping in international students who treat our education system as a pathway to residency. What we continue to have is poorly targeted, high-volume student migration that strains housing, strains infrastructure and turns too many universities into businesses that live off full-fee overseas enrolments. Australians should come first. This bill merely creates a pool and an allocator; it does not fix the underlying addiction.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">One Nation has released our well-considered policy to combat Labor's out-of-control mass immigration scheme. We will cut immigration by over 750,000 in the first three years, with 470,000 of these visas coming out of the student and graduate visa categories. Australia's uncapped education visa program has been abused for far too long under Labor. Massive numbers of dependants and family members have come with these students, putting pressure on housing, infrastructure and services. Under One Nation's plan, our education visas will be targeted to high-quality, high-value study for the skills that Australia needs. They will not be used as a back door to bring in families and dependants. Australians will be given the first look in at university placements, not overseas students, who universities have been targeting for fees. One Nation is here to fix a very broken system.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Here's what we will and will not support in this. We would support extra help for regional Australians and for students who have earned a place but face obstacles due to where they live. We would support directing growth toward genuine workforce shortages in nursing, teaching, engineering and agriculture. We would support money going directly to students that need it, to prevent universities from chasing extra funding from underprepared students. But we will not support central planning of university places by ATEC and the minister. We will not support funding that follows identity categories instead of genuine needs and merit. We will not support more money flowing into university administrations that have already grown fat on DEI and activism.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">If you've earned a place, you deserve to have the opportunity to continue your education, and One Nation supports this. This is not what is happening here. This bill concentrates power in Canberra and weakens competition and quality. It focuses on immutable characteristics as the basis for funding. One Nation will oppose it. The door this bill opens leads to more bureaucracy and more government control, not opportunity. I foreshadow my second reading amendment.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>25</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Allman-Payne, Sen Penny</name>
                <name.id>298839</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>AG</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="298839" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator ALLMAN-PAYNE</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">11:38</span>):  I rise to speak on the Universities Accord (Opening the Doors of Opportunity) Bill 2026. The government has presented this bill as an equity reform, and there are elements of this bill that are intended to improve access to university for students who've traditionally been locked out of higher education. The Greens support the principle that where you grow up, how much money your parents earn, whether you live in a city or in regional Australia or whether you're the first person in your family to go to university should not determine whether you get an opportunity to pursue higher education. Of course we support that.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">But, if we're going to talk seriously about equity in higher education, then we have to look at the whole system, and the reality is that our universities have become increasingly inequitable because, over decades, governments have pushed them towards a semiprivatised, market driven model. Universities have been forced to behave more and more like businesses. They've been expected to compete for students, compete for revenue and increasingly rely on student fees and private income to keep themselves going. When you structure higher education that way, students and staff pay the price.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">This bill doesn't deal with one of the most fundamental barriers confronting students right now: the actual cost of being a student. It doesn't fix student poverty. It doesn't properly address the cost of university fees. It doesn't deal with the enormous debts young people are asked to carry simply because they want an education. It leaves the deeply flawed Job-ready Graduates system in place.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The universities accord itself recognised that Job-ready Graduates needed urgent remediation, and yet Labor has still refused to scrap it. The Greens estimate that students have paid an additional $2.1 billion under Job-ready Graduates since its introduction. That is money coming out of the pockets of students, who are already being squeezed in every direction. They're paying more for rent. They're paying more for groceries. They're paying more for electricity. They're paying more for fuel and transport. On top of all that, they're being asked to pay more for their education.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">For many students, going to university now means trying to combine full-time study with enough full-time paid work to keep a roof over their head and food on the table. This is not an incidental problem because it goes directly to whether students can succeed. You can't seriously talk about opening the doors of opportunity if students get through the door and then discover that they can't afford to stay there. If we want students to be able to focus on their education, we need to make sure that they can afford to live while they study. That means increasing youth allowance and Austudy. Income support payments used to support people. They shouldn't leave students choosing between attending a class and picking up another shift at work because they need to pay the rent.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Labor should scrap the parental income test for students over the age of 18. Once someone is an adult, they should have the financial independence that comes with adulthood. Their ability to study should not depend on assumptions about the financial circumstances of their parents or whether their parents are prepared or able to support them. Access is only part of the equation; we also have to make sure that students can stay at university. We have to make sure that they can stay and finish their degrees. We have to make sure that, when they arrive at university, there are actually staff there to teach them, to support them and to provide them with the high-quality education that they all deserve.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">That brings us to another problem that this bill doesn't address: the chronic underfunding of our public universities. The government talks about growing the number of university places and providing additional needs based funding, and that additional funding is welcome. But the scale of the investment still falls well short of what is required to repair a system that has been pushed towards greater dependence on student fees and other private sources of revenue. This bill only provides a mere 1.7 per cent increase in university funding, pushing more universities to rely on student fees and ever-growing HECS debts. That financial pressure has consequences. Across the sector we've seen universities become increasingly reliant on insecure and casualised employment. We've seen staff asked to do more with less. We've seen workloads increase. We've seen academic and professional staff stretched beyond their reasonable limits. You cannot separate the learning conditions of students from the working conditions of the people who teach and support them. If we want good universities, we need properly funded universities. If we want high-quality education, we need university staff who have secure jobs, decent pay and a manageable workload.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">This is particularly important in regional Australia. Regional universities do so much more than just provide degrees. They are major employers. They train the teachers, nurses, doctors, vets and other professionals that regional communities depend upon. They undertake research specifically relevant to those communities. They keep skills and expertise in regional areas. They give young people the opportunity to study without having to leave their communities and move hundreds or thousands of kilometres away.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">That is why what is happening at James Cook University in Townsville should concern us. JCU is considering changes that would see its veterinary diagnostic pathology laboratory close. This is not some peripheral facility. It processes samples from throughout the Townsville region and is one of Queensland's major veterinary microbiology centres. But perhaps the people we should listen most closely to are the students themselves. JCU students have launched a petition calling on the university to save the laboratory. What they say should give everyone in this place real pause for thought. The students point out that veterinary science, biomedical science and medical laboratory science students all benefit directly from the diagnostic service, from the practical teaching it provides and from the expertise of the scientists, the technicians and the veterinary pathologists who work there. For these students, this is not an abstract argument about university administration. It's about the education that they came to JCU to receive. They say their practical sessions are crucial to their learning and their professional development. The students are worried that losing the lab would mean future graduates leave university without the depth of practical experience that currently gives JCU students an advantage when they enter the workforce. That matters enormously in a regional university. The students describe JCU's veterinary program as a backbone of rural veterinary service in Queensland, producing more than 50 graduates each year and attracting students from around Australia and overseas to Townsville. The students make a very obvious point:: if you diminish the quality of the practical education available at a regional university, you make it harder to persuade students to relocate there in the first place. Regional universities already face challenges attracting and retaining students, staff and specialist expertise. The university shouldn't be making that task harder. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The students at JCU are also deeply concerned about what happens to the people who work in the laboratory. These are highly skilled scientists, technicians and veterinary pathologists. Many of them have worked there for over a decade. Students warn that losing these people would mean a loss of expertise, not just from the university but from the veterinary profession across North Queensland. Expertise like that cannot simply be switched off and then recreated later when somebody decides they need it again. The students describe the potential loss as a 'brain drain' from the university and point out that replacing this kind of specialist expertise is difficult enough in our major cities, let alone in a regional centre like Townsville. There will be consequences for the broader community as well. The lab supports diagnostic services for pets and livestock and contributes expertise to histological, microbiological, veterinary and biomedical research. If that local capacity disappears, diagnostic work and research services currently undertaken in Townsville may instead have to be outsourced, including to Brisbane. That means more distance, more expense and generally more delays. When you are waiting on diagnostic results for a sick animal, time matters.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The students also say that this proposal was developed without consultation with laboratory staff, academics or students, and that students were not given a meaningful opportunity to have their voices heard, despite the consequences it would have for their studies. That's not good enough. Students are not customers passing through a business. They are members of the university community. The academics who teach them, the technicians who work alongside them, and the professional staff who make their education possible are members of that community too. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">When decisions are contemplated that could fundamentally change the quality of a course, remove practical learning opportunities and cost experienced people their jobs, those people deserve a genuine voice in that process. What I find particularly striking is that students who chose to study at James Cook University are now having to campaign to protect the very educational opportunities that attracted them to go there in the first place. That tells us something about the broader problem with the way we run and fund universities in this country. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">We can't talk about opening the doors of opportunity, particularly in regional Australia, while regional universities are simultaneously cutting staff, reducing services and weakening the educational experience available on the other side of those doors. We can't say that we want to train the next generation of vets, scientists and regional professionals and then allow the infrastructure and specialist expertise used to train them to just disappear. And we can't talk seriously about equity while students are wondering whether the course they enrolled in will still provide the education and practical experience that they expected.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Opening the doors is not enough. What matters is what students find on the other side. Do they find lecturers and tutors who have enough time to teach them properly? Do they find laboratories, libraries and student services that are properly resourced? Can they afford their rent while they study? Can they afford food? Can they survive on youth allowance or Austudy? Can they finish their degree without accruing an extraordinary debt? And when they graduate, what kind of university system are we leaving behind for the students who come after them? Those are the questions that an equity agenda has to answer. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The Greens have long argued that education is a public good. It benefits the students who study—of course it does—but it also benefits all of us. We need teachers. We need more nurses. We need doctors, engineers, scientists, social workers and vets. And we all benefit from the research, knowledge and discovery that goes on in our universities. So governments should be prepared to properly fund the institutions that educate these people and provide that knowledge. Students should not be treated primarily as sources of income, and staff should not be treated simply as costs to be cut wherever a balance sheet needs improving. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">If the government genuinely wants a more equitable university system, it needs to go much further than this bill. It needs to deal with student poverty. It needs to increase youth allowance and Austudy. It needs to end the parental income test for adults, and it needs to undo the damage caused by Job-ready Graduates. It needs to tackle the cost of degrees and the debts that students continue to accumulate. And it needs to properly fund universities so that staff have secure employment and students receive the education that they deserve. Our job is to build a properly funded public higher education system that gives every student who walks through its doors a genuine opportunity to thrive. That is what the Greens will keep working for in this place.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>27</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">McKim, Sen Nick</name>
                <name.id>JKM</name.id>
                <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
                <party>AG</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="JKM" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator McKIM</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Tasmania</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Australian Greens Whip</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">11:53</span>):  The name of this bill is the Universities Accord (Opening the Doors of Opportunity) Bill 2026. If Labor really wanted to open the doors of opportunity in the tertiary education sector in Australia, they would make university education free. They would erase all current HECS debts in this country. People might say, 'Oh, well. Here go the Greens again. You know, money doesn't grow on trees. How could you possibly fund such an extravagant commitment?' Firstly, it's not an extravagant commitment; it's an investment not just in the future of this country but in the future of millions of Australians who aspire to be tertiary educated.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">But there are so many choices that Labor could make in order to be able to afford wiping HECS debts and making tertiary education genuinely free. I'll reel off a few right now: make the super wealthy one per cent in this country pay a wealth tax; make big corporations pay their fair share of tax; walk away from the AUKUS nuclear submarines, which are on track to cost over $350 billion dollars; walk away from the $10-billion-plus handouts that you give, every single year, to publicly subsidise the burning of fossil fuels, in the middle of a climate crisis. There are so many ways that Labor could afford to genuinely open the doors of opportunity in the tertiary education sector, but Labor is not doing that. Labor is not doing that. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">This place, the Senate, and the other place, the House of Representatives, are riddled with people who got the opportunity for a free university degree. The cabinet is riddled with people who got free university degrees. Those were the good old days. I had the opportunity to get a free university degree. The Prime Minister had the opportunity to get a free university degree. One of the differences between us is that I am here arguing that university degrees should be free today, while the Prime Minister is happy to require young people, mostly, to mortgage their futures in order to get a decent tertiary education. If we want to talk about opening the doors of opportunity in the tertiary education sector, let's actually talk about some of the things that the government is choosing not to do that would genuinely open the doors of opportunity. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">There's a whole range of issues with this legislation, and I want to thank and congratulate my good friend and colleague Senator Mehreen Faruqi for the work that she has done with the government to develop amendments, many of which I understand will pass through this Senate. Let's be very clear that Senator Faruqi has delivered significant improvements to this legislation. However, despite its title, 'opening the doors of opportunity', it does represent a significant missed opportunity, and, despite Senator Faruqi's outstanding work, there are still opportunities that have not been grasped by the government in relation to this legislation. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">This bill has been marketed by Labor as equity reform, but I want to talk about the Job-ready Graduates scheme—one of the most unfair, inequitable, egregious policies in higher education that, since its introduction just five years ago, has cost students $2.1 billion. Instructively, between 2020 and 2024, low SES student commencements have decreased by nearly 10 per cent. Is that telling us something? Is that telling Labor something? If it's not telling Labor something, it absolutely should be. What it should be telling Labor is that the people who are the poorest in this country, the least well-off financially, are finding it harder and harder to enrol and sustain themselves while they are studying for a tertiary education. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Of course, since the Job-ready Graduates scheme was introduced in 2021, grocery prices have gone up 27 per cent. I'll add there that the price-gouging supermarket duopoly is responsible, through its greed and through its unconscionable behaviour, for a significant part of that increase in grocery prices. You've got utility prices up 39 per cent, nearly 40 per cent. Fuel prices are up over 40 per cent. Rents for students are up 40 per cent since 2021, yet you've got youth allowance and Austudy remaining far, far below the poverty line. Not only are we saying to young people, to students, 'you need to mortgage your futures through the unfair HECS system, which the majority of people in this place and the other place didn't have to do'; we are also saying to them that the allowances, in terms of youth allowance and Austudy, that you are being paid, if you are being paid, will remain well below the poverty line. This is real-life stuff. This is students skipping meals to be able to afford to pay their rent. I don't know about you, colleagues, but I reckon, if you're worried about being hungry, those are not optimal conditions for high-quality study.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Again, this government has missed a significant opportunity to genuinely improve the lives of students. We could in this country actually be prepared to take on the big gas corporations who are contributing so massively to climate change, which is, of course, another threat hanging over the heads of all of us but, in particular, young people. We could be taking those gas corporations on and making them pay, for example, a 25 per cent tax on gas exports, and we could fund universities, we could remove the job-ready graduates scheme, and we could increase Commonwealth supported places and, in fact, provide every student with a Commonwealth supported place. Labor could use that revenue to make universities genuinely free again, which is, of course, the opportunity that Prime Minister Albanese had when he was younger—how quickly people forget themselves when they come into this place.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The Prime Minister loves to tell his log cabin story about the struggles that he and his family faced when he was growing up, but I'll tell you what, you can tell those stories all you like, but you will be judged, Prime Minister, on your actions not your words. If you want to do something genuine to help other people who are struggling today as they are growing up, then one thing you could do is take on the big gas corporations, make them pay a 25 per cent minimum gas export tax and use that money to make tertiary education genuinely free. That would build our country. It would provide the opportunity that is contained in the title of this legislation, 'opening the doors of opportunity'.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The Greens are here, ready to work with Labor to deliver some of those things, but Labor will choose not to work with us, so we will, as Senator Faruqi has so admirably for so long, continue to be shoulder to shoulder with young Australians, to fight to make universities genuinely free and to fight to wipe all HECS debt and to relieve some of that burden, which is overwhelmingly placed on young and younger people in this country.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>28</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Steele-John, Sen Jordon</name>
                <name.id>250156</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>AG</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="250156" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator STEELE-JOHN</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Western Australia</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">12:04</span>):  I join my colleague in recognising the incredibly long-held positions of Senator Faruqi and her advocacy on behalf of Australian university students and Australian universities more broadly. The Universities Accord (Opening the Doors of Opportunity) Bill 2026, which we are debating today, does a couple of fundamental things. It changes the way in which funding is managed in this system to one which is needs based. Managed growth entails a number of different flow on mechanisms to be put in place. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">To be quite honest, when the bill was delivered by the government to the parliament, initially there was one way to describe it, and that's half baked. It really was half baked. Now, thanks to the work of Senator Faruqi, a number of the Greens amendments and a number of the red flags around this legislation that we communicated have been taken up and accepted. Some of these concerns have been addressed in the bill. In fact, I think a majority of the initial concerns have been addressed by the adoption of our amendments. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I remember when this legislation was initially bowled up to us. I reflect on how fundamentally slapdash some of the legislation coming out of this government so often appears to be. Given the big game that Labor talks in relation to the university sector and the university policy, you would expect them to come up with policy that is well rounded and consulted on thoroughly with open ears to those who live, work and have built their careers within the university sector and to students who overwhelmingly would have voted at the ballot box in the previous election to put the absolute political boot into the Liberal Party and deliver a more progressive parliament. Yet the legislation, as it initially came to us, was undercooked. Senator Faruqi's intervention has addressed a lot of that. But I do have to ask: with a 94-seat majority in the other place given to them by the Australian people, is this the best we can do? I shudder to think what the coalition would have done with a similar mandate. I'm not sure we would recognise Australia in this moment had they been given such an endorsement and such an opportunity to right the wrongs as they see them in Australian law. And yet here we are, getting to the point where an election is about a year away, and we're relying on the crossbench in the Senate to fix up a bunch of problems in relation to a piece of legislation that really didn't cut the mustard in the first place. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">And if anyone thinks I'm making just a generic political point here, let me take you to an explicit piece of my portfolio focus. I'm the health spokesperson for the Greens. I have been for the last couple of years. In that role, it's been my obligation and my job to meet with Australians and to travel the country to collaborate with those in all the different parts of our health sector. One of the things that has been put squarely back to me over and over again is that, if we are to build an accessible and affordable healthcare system that meets the contemporary needs of the Australian community, we need to be looking at how we support students who wish to train and educate and enter the health workforce to be able to do that effectively and as quickly as possible while maintaining the highest level of expertise. In so many areas there is huge community demand, and yet there is a small and sometimes shrinking workforce.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">One of the clearest ways—one of the most effective ways—to begin solving these workforce challenges is to support students who are seeking to go into health care in the various different areas to be able to study and to be able to carry out the practical elements of their study in a way that is sustainable for them. As is right and correct for many of these areas of expertise and focus, there is a need to move from a space of academic theory to practical application before you then go on to work directly with Australians—with patients—to deliver health care and support good community health outcomes. While you're doing that work—while you're training and while you're putting it into practice—it is really difficult to also hold down a job. Sometimes, it's impossible to do that because of the level of focus that is required and the hours that are required.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">This phenomenon is acknowledged in some parts of the system. We have the Commonwealth prac placement support programs that have existed. Quite tangibly, they have come in the form of weekly payments. Now they sit at about $338 a week. It's means tested. It's tagged to the Austudy levels—and we do know that those levels are too low and they need to be increased, but it is something. What we have seen over the years is other areas of the health profession advocating to the government that this program be expanded to include additional professions. We did, at last, see the government make a much-needed, long-overdue overhaul of this program so that professions such as occupational therapy, psychology, speech pathology and about 10 others are now able to access this program. That's to be welcomed. That was a good step forward. I know many OTs, speech pathologists and other allied health professionals who welcomed that move, at last, and think that it is a step that will bring us closer to addressing those workforce shortages in those areas.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">But, again, what do we see? We see policy that is half baked. Who did they, once again, leave out? They left out medical students, meaning that people training to be doctors—people training to go into these vitally needed areas—will not receive that payment despite the relentless advocacy of their peak bodies to draw the government's attention to the fact that, without these types of supports, we are seeing students who are training to be our next generations in these critical fields go without meals while they're on the job, training to do some of the most complex procedures and medical work that is able to be done. This is resulting in serious problems for medical students as a whole. We see, in the data, the impact of this falling on those who were already disadvantaged when they entered the field of medical studies and decided to be students.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Again, I'll give you a practical, tangible example brought forward by the association. A lot of people have spoken for a long time in this place about the need to get more First Nations people into the process of becoming medical students and then through to qualification, for all of the reasons that should be well understood—the value and benefit of somebody with lived experience training in the profession.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="e68" type="MemberInterjecting">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT </span>
                    </a>
                    <span class="HPS-GeneralBold">(</span>
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Sterle</span>
                    <span class="HPS-GeneralBold">):</span>  Senator Steele-John, I'm sorry to interrupt you, but it being 12.15, I shall now proceed to Senators' statements.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
            <interjection>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>29</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Sterle, Sen Glenn (The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT)</name>
                  <name.id>e68</name.id>
                  <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                  <party>ALP</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </interjection>
          </speech>
        </subdebate.2>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>STATEMENTS BY SENATORS</title>
        <page.no>29</page.no>
        <type>STATEMENTS BY SENATORS</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <debate.text>
        <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
          <p class="HPS-Debate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Debate">STATEMENTS BY SENATORS</span>
          </p>
          <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Normal">
              <span style="font-weight:bold;">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</span> (Senator Sterle) (12:15):  With the concurrence of the Senate, the clerks will set the clock in accordance with the informal arrangements for speaking times agreed by the whips.</span>
          </p>
        </body>
      </debate.text>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Indigenous Australians: Child Safety, Western Australia: Infrastructure</title>
          <page.no>29</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p>
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Indigenous Australians: Child Safety</span>
              </p>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Western Australia: Infrastructure</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>29</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">O'Sullivan, Sen Matt</name>
              <name.id>283585</name.id>
              <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
              <party>LP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="283585" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator O'SULLIVAN</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Western Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Deputy Manager of Opposition Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">12:15</span>):  Today's reporting in the <span style="font-style:italic;">Australian</span> exposes a horrifying failure of child protection in Western Australia. As the shadow minister for child protection and the prevention of family violence and as a proud Western Australian, I am deeply disturbed by what's been revealed. The police were reportedly called more than 50 times to a house in South Hedland, where vulnerable Aboriginal children were allegedly living in appalling conditions, sometimes without parents and exposed to drug dealers, sexual predators, violence and neglect. The police reportedly notified the Department of Communities dozens of times that these children were at imminent risk of physical and emotional harm, yet the system did not act with the urgency that these children deserved. It reportedly took media scrutiny before the house was finally cleaned up. This is not what Western Australians expect from their government. When police repeatedly raise alarms, neighbours can see children living in danger and local Aboriginal elders are demanding action, the department responsible for protecting children cannot remain missing in action. These children are not statistics. They are not files sitting on a desk. They are children who deserve to be safe, cared for and protected.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">I appreciate that this is primarily a state matter, but, as a senator in the states' house, I must call it out and say that the Cooke government has to explain how this has been allowed to continue. The Minister for Child Protection has acknowledged that the investigation took too long, and this is an extraordinary understatement. Western Australians deserve to know why repeated warnings were not acted upon and, most importantly, whether the children involved are now safe. They also deserve to know why the South Hedland child protection office was operating with only 9.6 of its 14.4 practitioner positions filled. A vacancy lasting 138 days is not merely an administrative problem when vulnerable children depend upon that office for their safety. I want to commend my good friend and state colleague the Hon. Nick Goiran MLC, Western Australia's shadow minister for child protection, who has worked tirelessly over many years to expose failures in the system and demand accountability for vulnerable children. His persistent advocacy has ensured that these issues cannot simply be ignored or swept aside.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">This follows the devastating revelations surrounding the deaths of three Hawke children in 2022. Their grandmother Dorothy Papertalk says that she repeatedly pleaded with authorities to let her protect her grandchildren. An internal review reportedly identified at least 11 adverse findings against the department, including failures to contact and properly engage with her. She deserves an apology and the inquest that she has requested. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">While child protection is principally a state responsibility, as I've said, the Prime Minister, the Minister for Indigenous Australians and the Minister for Social Services must take note and insist that the Cooke government take urgent action and full responsibility. Closing the Gap cannot simply just be about targets, frameworks and announcements. If Aboriginal children—in fact, any children—are known to be living in danger and the government still fails to protect them, then governments are failing at the most basic level. Remember, what we do with the least of these we do unto thee.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Connection to family, community and culture is profoundly important, but a child's immediate safety must always come first. Local elders must be heard. Families who are begging to protect their grandchildren must be heard. Police warnings must be acted upon. No government should need a newspaper investigation before it notices that children are living in danger. The children of South Hedland deserve better. Western Australians expect better. We cannot undo the harm already suffered, but we can ensure that these revelations lead to answers, accountability and, importantly, lasting change.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">I turn now to another matter. While the CFMEU have emerged as the principal beneficiary of Victoria's Big Build, in Western Australia it is ordinary families who are paying the price, spending more time stuck in peak-hour traffic because critical road projects have been delayed. As month after month passes and another announcement is followed by Labor Party inaction and lacklustre excuses dressed up as progress, a number of infrastructure projects in Western Australia continue to experience delays.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">First among them and taking the gold medal is the Nicholson Road and Garden Street intersection upgrade in Canning Vale. Long after Labor MPs have come and gone with their social media photos, celebrating the announcement, a rolling cascade of traffic congestion continues at this dangerous intersection. Like a marathon, infrastructure delivery is not judged by the start; it's judged by reaching the finish line. Now, four years after its announcement, no overpass bridge has been built. In fact, there's still no bridge. Families in Canning Vale and Gosnells will once again begin a new year enduring the same traffic congestion that they've faced for many years before. Initially, design delays and modifications arose from coordination with the adjacent METRONET. Then further delays followed due to utility relocations involving ATCO gas and, more recently, Western Power.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">The next issue is the non-existent Garden Island highway extension. With the first rotational presence of UK and US submarines imminent, it became evident early on that neither the state nor the federal government had the stomach to realise this road project—one that was gazetted in the Perth Metropolitan Region Scheme as far back as 1975. The corridor was reserved to provide future access to HMAS <span style="font-style:italic;">Stirling</span> and a proposed container port at Mangles Bay. The road reservation is still there, but there is no road.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Rather than seriously explore what can be done to get this road built, Labor has simply handballed this project to the too-hard basket. Instead of using the camouflage of a study that proposed tinkering around the edges, with modest modifications to the existing road infrastructure, they have not taken action. This study concluded that a new highway was not warranted and that the targeted upgrades to the existing road network could be managed through forecast traffic demand. This certainly came as a surprise to local residents, who confront daily traffic congestion in Parkin Street in Rockingham. The mayor of the City of Rockingham said:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">If we don't get the Parkin Street Point Peron Road Junction sorted out, we face road network breakdown.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Without doubt, future generations will look back and rightly ask why the state and federal Labor governments failed to grasp the political vision and why they didn't deliver this project when they had the opportunity.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">There are eerie similarities with another now-abandoned road project in Perth, Roe 8 and Roe 9. Every day, Perth commuters travelling on the Kwinana Freeway, and on the Leach Highway and Roe Highway east of the freeway, move at a snail's pace and ask why that project was not completed a decade ago, before it was halted by the McGowan Labor government. These projects are not about politics; they're about productivity, safety and the quality of life. Every day the delivery is delayed is another day that families spend in traffic rather than at home and another day that businesses face unnecessary costs.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span style="font-style:italic;">
                  </span>Western Australians deserve infrastructure that matches the demands of a growing state. Moreover, if Western Australia is to accommodate the expanding defence workforce associated with HMAS <span style="font-style:italic;">Stirling</span> and AUKUS, governments must think beyond the gates of the naval base itself. Increased defence personnel numbers will place additional pressure not only on local roads but also on housing and the availability of those houses in the Kwinana and Rockingham areas. This is a serious issue, and failing to plan for these requirements now risks creating further congestion, worsening housing pressures and undermining the very workforce growth that governments are seeking to see happen. If Western Australia is expected to shoulder a greater national defence role, then governments must ensure that the road network is capable of supporting that mission. <span style="font-style:italic;">(Time expired)</span></span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Tasmania: Infrastructure</title>
          <page.no>31</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Tasmania: Infrastructure</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>31</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Bleyer, Sen Vanessa</name>
              <name.id>25813</name.id>
              <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
              <party>AG</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="25813" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator BLEYER</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Tasmania</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">12:25</span>):  Off the far north-west coast of Tasmania is an island, Robbins Island. Its traditional Palawa name is Pilitika. It is rich in Aboriginal cultural heritage and of profound significance to the Palawa Pakana people. It contains landforms of global geological and geomorphological significance. Its complex coastal systems serve as an international index site for studying past climate changes and sea-level histories. It is on the migratory pathway of the critically endangered orange-bellied parrot, which doesn't just instinctively fly over but stops and forages on the island. It is home to the last remaining disease-free population of the endangered Tasmanian devil in the world. Elsewhere in Tasmania, a facial tumour disease is decimating Tasmanian devil populations. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Now, wait for this, and I hope you're all sitting down: last year, in 2025, this Labor government approved a wind farm at Pilitika/Robbins Island. Construction of turbines will destroy sites of Aboriginal cultural heritage, destroy sites of global geological significance and cause the extinction of the orange-bellied parrot as the turbine blades pulverise the last parrots that survive. Construction of a bridge from mainland Tasmania to Pilitika/Robbins Island will introduce diseased Tasmanian devils and decimate the last healthy wild population. Construction of a wharf will deprive us forever of studying sea-level histories at a time of climate crisis, when we need it most. Like every development, there's a right place and a wrong place. This is simply the wrong place for a wind farm. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">You'll be pleased to know I'm the bearer of good news. Something has just happened which means that this government should now bring the proposed wind farm at Pilitika/Robbins Island to an end. It was a condition of this government's approval of the Robbins Island wind farm that, within six months of the date of approval, the proponent of the wind farm—backed by a megarich Philippines based company, by the way—must submit an orange-bellied parrot survey plan to this government for approval. The proponent did not. It was a condition of this government's approval that the proponent notify this government within two business days of failing to comply with the condition. The proponent did not. The big foreign corporation behind the proposed wind farm obviously cares not for the laws of this nation, just like it obviously cares not for the irreplaceable natural and cultural wonders of Pilitika-Robbins Island.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">On the other hand, we hear this government talking so much about how it upholds the rule of law and that the rule of law is a foundational principle of Australia's democracy. It follows that it must care very much for the laws of this nation. So, no doubt, this government is going to do what the law says that it should because of the breached conditions and immediately revoke the approval of the wind farm at Pilitika-Robbins Island. No doubt, this government is going to do what the law says it should and prosecute the proponent for its serious statutory offence in breaching the conditions. Surely this government is not more concerned about appeasing a big corporation and making decisions for that big corporation instead of for us. I and so many whom I represent in Tasmania eagerly await the news from this Labor government that it will adhere to the rule of law and that this monstrosity of a wind farm—100 turbines, each over 200 metres high, and in absolutely the wrong place—is over.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Speaking of developments that are absolutely in the wrong place, I note a proposed data centre in the Tamar Valley in northern Tasmania that remains controversial. Recently, a local council in Tasmania approved that AI data centre at what was previously the site for Gunns proposed pulp mill. Let me tell you, that place and I go way back. When I was a lawyer, we ran more court cases to stop that proposed dirty, stinking pulp mill than to stop any other proposed development in this nation. We challenged every single state and federal government approval. This was because that site in the Tamar Valley is not the place for a pulp mill. The noise that the pulp mill would have generated and the light that the pulp mill would have emitted would have been grossly disruptive to the residents of the Tamar Valley, and it would have permanently damaged the then $50-million-a-year tourism industry. The massive amounts of water that the pulp mill would have needed could not have been delivered, because the presence of threatened flora species where the pipeline was intended to be built would have prohibited it. For all these reasons, the pulp mill failed.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">For the same reasons, a noisy, light-emitting and water intensive AI data centre at the same site as the proposed Gunns pulp mill cannot proceed, in what is now a $100-million-a-year tourism industry. It might have local council approval, but I can't see how it could get federal government approval under our national environment laws. Big business and the Tasmanian government sought to ram through the pulp mill, but, as a community, we stood up and saw it off. As a community, we can and we will do the same for this AI data centre.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">We know that data centres are deeply unpopular across the whole of Australia, particularly in Tasmania. A petition tabled this month by my Greens colleagues in Tasmania's state parliament opposing the development of AI data centres was one of the largest in the state's history. Tasmanians called for an immediate moratorium on non-complete artificial intelligence and data facilities until strict protective guardrails are put in place.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">We need a moratorium on AI data centre developments across the whole nation now. That is the Greens position and that is the public's expectation of all of us in this place. We can't wait until next year, when this government says it's going to introduce proposed laws, because, in the meantime, companies like Firmus are going to ram their proposals through local planning processes. Local councils aren't even equipped to deal with that. AI data centres were not even a sparkle in anyone's eye when the planning schemes were prepared. The only people that benefit from these developments are the big tech corporations.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">The company that is seeking to build the data centre in Tasmania's Tamar Valley, Firmus, is run by a convicted fraudster. Can we really take him at his word? We can't, and I'll give you some evidence as to why. Firmus has just appealed the local council decision to approve the data centre at the proposed Gunns pulp mill site in an effort to allow it to run diesel powered generators at the site. It had promised that its data centres would be powered by renewable energy.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">These big tech corporations are misleading our communities. They are misleading our governments, and they are proposing developments that are in the wrong place. The community won the fight against Gunns proposed pulp mill and the community will win this fight against this proposed AI data centre.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Holocaust Institute of WA, Cooper, Mr William</title>
          <page.no>32</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p>
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Holocaust Institute of WA</span>
              </p>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Cooper, Mr William</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>32</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Smith, Sen Dean</name>
              <name.id>241710</name.id>
              <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
              <party>LP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="241710" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator DEAN SMITH</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Western Australia</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">12:34</span>):  I rise today to recognise an important milestone for Western Australia's Jewish community—the official opening of the new Holocaust Institute of WA education centre. I was privileged to attend and speak at the opening alongside the new Maccabi Community Centre and to recognise the years of hard work, determination and generosity that have brought this vision to life. I particularly acknowledge the stewardship of Sol Majteles, Justine Sharbanee, Judith Lawrence, Talya Mossenson and Jonathon Silbert and everyone who has contributed to this remarkable achievement. The new education centre will preserve memory, strengthen community and, most importantly, educate future generations.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">In honouring this significant community achievement, there is an opportunity to remind us of a remarkable tale of courage and conviction over discrimination. As they walk through the doors of the Maccabi Community Centre, visitors encounter the portrait of a remarkable Australian: William Cooper. William Cooper was one of Australia's most important Aboriginal leaders and the founder of the Australian Aborigines' League. He spent much of his life fighting injustice against his own people, yet, in 1938, in his late seventies and in declining health, his attention turned to an injustice occurring thousands of kilometres away against people he had never met.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">On 9 and 10 November that year, Nazi mobs attacked Jewish homes, businesses and synagogues across Germany and Austria in what became known as Kristallnacht, the Night of Broken Glass. Synagogues were burned. Jewish homes, schools and businesses were vandalised and destroyed. Almost 100 Jewish people were killed, and, in the aftermath, around 30,000 Jewish men were arrested and sent to concentration camps. The shattered glass that covered the streets gave Kristallnacht its name, but the significance of those events went far beyond broken windows. Kristallnacht represented a terrifying escalation in the Nazi persecution of Europe's Jewish population. The discrimination, intimidation and violence that had been growing for years was becoming systemic and increasingly brutal. Ultimately, that persecution would culminate in the Holocaust and the murder of over six million Jews.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">William Cooper read about what had happened, and he decided he could not remain silent. On 6 December 1938, less than a month after Kristallnacht, a small group gathered early in the morning at Cooper's home in Footscray, Melbourne. Dressed in suits and hats, Cooper and members of the Australian Aborigines' League set out for the German consulate in Melbourne. They carried with them a resolution made in their words on behalf of the Aboriginal inhabitants of Australia. It protested wholeheartedly against the cruel persecution of the Jewish people by the Nazi government in Germany and pleaded for that persecution to end. They walked from Footscray to the German consulate on Collins Street, around 11 kilometres. For a 77-year-old man in declining health, it was no small undertaking, but William Cooper was determined to make his voice heard. When they reached the consulate, they were refused entry. They could have been forgiven for thinking their effort had all been in vain, but history tells us otherwise.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">What makes Cooper's actions so extraordinary is the position of Aboriginal Australians themselves at that time. They were denied fundamental rights and subjected to entrenched discrimination. Cooper himself had spent years campaigning for justice, representation and dignity for his own people. He therefore had every reason to devote all of his energy to the injustices immediately before him. Instead, he recognised injustice against another people thousands of kilometres away and made it his concern too. His grandson Alf Turner later reflected that his grandfather recognised in the Jewish people the same fear, desperation, bewilderment and hopelessness experienced by his own people in Australia, and, when much of the world failed to act, William Cooper did act.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">There is something profoundly human in that story of William Cooper. Too often we assume people will care only about causes that directly affect them, that our background, religion, ethnicity or personal experience determines which injustices we are prepared to confront. William Cooper showed us something better: You do not have to share someone's background to share their concern, you do not have to have suffered the same injustice to recognise it, and you do not have to belong to a community to stand beside it when it is threatened. Some of the strongest acts of solidarity in our history have come from people who shared little except an understanding of right and wrong.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Cooper understood discrimination through his own experience, but, rather than narrowing his compassion, it enlarged it. His story also reminds us that standing against injustice matters most when doing so is unpopular, inconvenient or lonely. It is easy to condemn injustice once history has delivered its verdict; it is much harder to recognise it as it is happening and to find the courage to speak when too few others will.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">That is why institutions such as the Holocaust Institute of Western Australia's education centre matter. The Holocaust did not begin with concentration camps and gas chambers; it was preceded by years of antisemitism, exclusion, dehumanisation, intimidation and violence. Understanding that history is essential if the words 'never again' are to have meaning. As the number of Holocaust survivors able to share their experiences personally declines, the responsibility for preserving their testimony and teaching future generations becomes greater. That responsibility increasingly passes to institutions, educators, families and communities. The new education centre will help carry it. It will give Western Australians, particularly young Western Australians, the opportunity to learn not only what happened during the Holocaust but how it happened and why its lessons remain relevant.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Remembrance must be about more than looking backwards; it must inform how we behave today. William Cooper understood that more than 85 years ago. He understood that an attack upon the dignity of another human being should matter even when that person worships differently, looks different or lives on the other side of the world. Today, William Cooper is rightly honoured by Jewish communities in Australia and internationally. In 2012, his grandson retraced his grandfather's journey and delivered a copy of the protest letter that Cooper had attempted to present all those decades earlier.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Today, buildings, scholarships and other memorials carry William Cooper's name. But perhaps his greatest memorial is the example he left us—an Aboriginal Australian who, when his own people faced profound injustice, nevertheless found room in his heart to speak for another persecuted people. His example reminds us that injustice against one community should concern us all; that solidarity can cross every boundary of faith, culture and background; that silence is a choice, and so is speaking out; and that sometimes the most powerful thing any of us can say is very simple: this may not be happening to me, but it matters to me. That is a worthy message for us all to remember.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Artificial Intelligence, Women's Health</title>
          <page.no>33</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p>
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Artificial Intelligence</span>
              </p>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Women's Health</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>33</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Ananda-Rajah, Sen Michelle</name>
              <name.id>290544</name.id>
              <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="290544" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator ANANDA-RAJAH</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Victoria</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">12:43</span>):  The Albanese Labor government is turning the screws on the social media platforms. Those arguing against it call it censorship; I reject that completely. What we have right now is not free speech; it is the illusion of freedom. We don't know what we are seeing or why we are seeing it. We are force-fed content, with no idea of whether it is real or AI slop, who made it, where it came from or why we are seeing it. Depending on your profile, it might be dogs, food, misogyny, eating disorders, radicalisation or pro-measles or pro-self-harm content.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">When Australians don't know what they are seeing or why, that's not freedom. That's tech authoritarianism. Tech oligarchs have been running the show. They are the controllers behind our screens. And these harms are not trivial—women bleeding to death after freebirths, election interference, climate misinformation dividing communities and scams that are making us poorer. But it's the harms to our kids that keep me up at night—too many suicides, too much cyberbullying and online shaming and youth radicalisation making our boys hostile to women and girls. The digital duty of care gives us back choice and control. Now Australians will be able to switch off the algorithm and control what they see. That's real freedom. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">With one in five Australians paying for AI, including one in three Aussie firms, our dependency on AI is growing. A former Anthropic researcher has warned that AI could precipitate human extinction and that no other human activity posed this level of danger. Days later, the Anthropic CEO called on the industry to slow down, warning that, if left unchecked, AI risks advancing beyond our capacity to control it. This assumes, of course, that we understand its preferences. We do not. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">On 7 July, OpenAI made public a fully automated autonomous AI cyberattack on an external company called Hugging Face. It was a milestone, and not in a good way. One AI agent, working in a team or a swarm, exclaimed, 'Oh, my God! There's a shared message board. We've found other agents.' That's what the AI actually said. AI agents are conniving and collaborating while covering their tracks from human oversight to achieve their goals. We shouldn't be surprised. After all, these agents are trained on our human foibles. Warnings were quickly corroborated by AI oligarchs Sam Altman and Elon Musk. When the warnings are coming from inside the tent, we should listen.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">The Albanese Labor government is taking this seriously. We announced our national AI plan last year, and the Prime Minister, in July of this year, foreshadowed that world-first AI standards are coming. We have established an AI safety institute. We have also signed a memorandum of understanding with Anthropic and Microsoft to encourage responsible development of AI and set out standards that force new data centres to underwrite their own power, pay their own connection costs, use water sustainably and deliver jobs. All these elements will come under a new office of AI, established under the Prime Minister's wing to better coordinate a whole-of-government response. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">But maybe it's time to ask if we need to go further. Comparable global threats have produced global conventions. The 1997 chemical weapons convention ended the development, production, stockpiling, transfer and use of chemical weapons, following the gas attacks of World War I. This time we do not have 80 years to coordinate a global response. When insiders are saying that AI could precipitate human extinction, and some are saying that could happen a lot sooner than we think, an international convention is not such a crazy idea.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Continuing, I'm really proud of the fact that the Albanese Labor government has delivered a women's health package of nearly $1 billion. This package was born out of the fact that we are a female-dominant government, with 56 per cent female representation in our federal Labor caucus.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Tasmania: Mental Health</title>
          <page.no>34</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Tasmania: Mental Health</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>34</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Brown, Sen Carol</name>
              <name.id>F49</name.id>
              <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="F49" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CAROL BROWN</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Tasmania</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">12:48</span>):  I rise to speak about two important investments in mental health care in my home state of Tasmania. The first is the new Glenorchy Medicare Mental Health Centre. This centre will provide free walk-in mental health support in the heart of Glenorchy, with no referral or appointment needed. For people who are struggling, that is important. Asking for help with your mental health is not always easy. The last thing somebody needs at that point is another barrier in the way, whether that be cost, a long wait or simply not knowing where to turn. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">The Glenorchy centre is fully funded by the Australian government, with $5.76 million being provided over six years to establish and operate the service. It will be staffed by trained mental health professionals and peer workers, including people with lived experience. People will be able to get immediate support, ongoing care and help to connect with psychologists, psychiatrists and other services, where they are needed. The centre will also be able to support carers and families and will help connect people with other services, including housing and employment supports. That is practical help in the community for people who need it. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">The centre is on the main street in Glenorchy, right in the heart of the northern suburbs. I think that's important. Mental health care should not be hidden away. Bringing these services into the community helps break down stigma and makes asking for help a normal part of looking after your health. Medicare is about access to care. In mental health, that means making sure people can get the support they need without cost being the thing that stops them asking for help. Glenorchy will be Tasmania's fourth Medicare mental health centre. There are already centres operating in Launceston and Devonport, with an interim service in Cooee, near Burnie, and a further full centre is planned for Brighton. Nationally, the network is expanding to 92 Medicare mental health centres.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">The second investment I would like to talk about is the new mental health precinct at Saint John's Park in New Town. Work is now underway on a major new facility that will bring a number of services together in one place. The Saint John's Park facility represents a total investment of $47 million. It will include 15 mental health beds, a day program, a consulting hub, a safe haven and a recovery cottage. It will also include a 12-bed residential eating disorder service. The Australian government has committed $10 million towards eating disorder services in Tasmania, including $7.5 million towards establishing the new residential service at Saint John's Park. This is a very important investment. For too long, Tasmanians living with an eating disorder have not had the access to this level of residential care close to home. When the new service opens, people will be able to receive intensive specialist treatment here in Tasmania, supported by a multidisciplinary team. That means people can remain closer to their families and their support networks while they receive care. It means another gap in Tasmania's mental health system is being filled. Construction of the Saint John's Park facility is expected to be completed in 2028.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">The Tasmanian government funded mental health integration hub at Saint John's Park will also be co-branded as part of the Medicare mental health centre network. These projects are different, but they are trying to achieve the same thing—better access to mental health care in the community. We know early support matters, we know people do better when they can get the help before their distress reaches crisis point, and we know that, wherever possible, Tasmanians should be able to receive care in Tasmania, close to the people who support them. There is always more work to do in health and particularly in mental health, but these are significant investments in services that will make a practical difference for Tasmanians. They are expanding access to Medicare mental health centres, increasing specialist eating disorder care and bringing more support into local communities. For people in Glenorchy, New Town and across southern Tasmania, these investments mean more support and more options closer to home. Good mental health care should be available when people need it in a place they can get to without costs standing in the way. That's what these investments are helping to deliver for Tasmania. <span style="font-style:italic;">(Time expired)</span></span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Artificial Intelligence</title>
          <page.no>35</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Artificial Intelligence</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>35</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Hanson-Young, Sen Sarah</name>
              <name.id>I0U</name.id>
              <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
              <party>AG</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="I0U" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator HANSON-YOUNG</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Manager of Australian Greens Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">12:53</span>):  Big AI companies are trying to blackmail the Australian government and this very parliament. They want to get the government to agree to sell out Australia's intellectual property rights. It is absolutely disgraceful that these companies, trillion-dollar companies, want a free cheque to come and scrape, steal and thieve on Australia's culture and on our intellectual property. The Albanese government had promised to stand strong against this push from big AI to take whatever they want without consent and without payment from Australians. But what do we see? We see the Albanese government going weak at the knees. Big AI is blackmailing the Albanese government and wanting to make sure this parliament follows suit. Frankly, Australians are sick and tired of being told that big tech can just get whatever it wants. Australians are rightly sceptical of AI and the enormous amount of power it has and the bullying that goes on. Australians are right to be sceptical of what AI wants to do here on Australian soil. We know, of course, they want to build their big data-mining centres. They want carve-outs on rules and fast-tracking for buildings. And now we hear that they're trying to push the government to give them a carve-out on copyright as well.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Australians are looking at this and they're saying, 'Hang on a minute—how come these big American companies think they can just come to Australia, set up shop, take our water, take our energy, take our land and, now, take our culture and our intellectual property for free?' This option that the government is seemingly pushing around is for an opt-out—that is, that Australians are going to be expected to opt out of having their work stolen, opt out of having their rights protected and opt out of being paid for their creativity and their lifetime's work. An opt-out is a cop-out, and it's about time that the Albanese government showed some muscle. The big tech companies and big AI are coming to Australia with their big dollar signs, dazzling state and federal governments and promising the world. Meanwhile, they're actually giving a dire warning of what this technology is capable of. We saw the biggest AI CEOs only in the last week say that they don't even know how to control this technology, but they want Australians to roll over and give them carte blanche access here in Australia, and we'll worry about the consequences later.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Australians are not patsies. We're not AI's patsy and we're not America's patsy. We want a government who's willing to stand up for our rights, our culture and our intellectual property. If the Albanese government cannot do that, then they should fess up and tell Australians that they're too weak to run these negotiations and too weak to take on big AI and big tech. Pretending that you're cutting a good deal while you're being screwed is laughable at best but dangerous at worst. Australians know that big AI has no right to a social licence unless it earns it, so the Albanese government must force AI to earn it. We need a moratorium on these big AI data-mining centres so that these laws can be put in place first, to protect Australians, to protect our culture, to protect our water, to protect our energy, to protect our rights and to protect Australia's sovereignty. <span style="font-style:italic;">(Time expired)</span></span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Gas Industry</title>
          <page.no>36</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Gas Industry</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>36</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Pocock, Sen David</name>
              <name.id>256136</name.id>
              <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
              <party>IND</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="256136" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator DAVID POCOCK</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Australian Capital Territory</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Independent ACT Whip</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">12:58</span>):  Here in Canberra, the capital city with the highest fuel prices in the country, petrol has gone past $2.25 a litre, diesel is higher and it's pushing prices up across the board—freight, groceries, every tradie's ute and every delivery van. We politicians either drive EVs or have a petrol card, so we're not paying that cost. It's Australians who are. This is the second time in less than five years we've suffered due to fossil fuel price shocks. When Russia invaded Ukraine, Australian gas and power bills went through the roof. Fossil fuel prices are volatile by nature, set by events we cannot control and by people who will never face the Australian voter.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Here in Australia we're actually a net energy exporter, but we continue to suffer even when prices go up globally. Around 80 per cent of our gas is exported. We're one of the biggest LNG exporters on the planet. When the world price spikes, we should be in a position to benefit, not to pay through the nose here in Australia and not receive a benefit. We know that 56 per cent of our LNG exporters pay no royalty at all, not a cent for the resource itself. PRRT last financial year was paltry, bringing in just $1.4 billion. The beer excise raises $2.7 billion. Passports are heading towards $1 billion. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Sure, we'll have both major parties say, 'Well, there are all sorts of other taxes that they pay like corporate tax, payroll tax—add every other tax you can possibly try and cobble together.' We're talking about the resource itself, this finite resource, that belongs to all Australians, and we still have no export tax. We've got a government that is so gutless on this issue they couldn't even put in place a windfall profits tax after the war in Ukraine kicked off and we saw gas companies making eye watering profits. Nothing. They're very happy for Woodside, Santos, Impex, Chevron, Shell and the rest to pocket that and for it to not come to the Australian people. Since July 2022 we've forgone more than $76 billion in revenue because we don't have a 25 per cent gas export tax. That's nearly $50 million a day. Think about the need in this country. Think about the things that we can't pay for. Think about a government squeezing veterans to save money. And yet we're not willing to actually get a fair return on the gas that belongs to all of us. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Instead of getting a fair return for our gas, the government has proposed a gas reservation scheme. I strongly support a domestic gas reservation scheme. As a crossbencher, I'll work in good faith to strengthen it. But, as drafted, there's far too much ministerial discretion and I'm concerned about loopholes. When we know that the Minister for Resources is accepting tickets from Woodside to go to the footy and to do other things, you have to ask questions about this set-up. We know that the government has tried to use the domestic reservation policy as a shield from the demands of Australians to have a gas export tax, but it is not a substitute for a gas export tax. This is a finite resource that belongs to all Australians, and Australians should be getting a fair share on the export of that resource. Once it's shipped, it's gone. It is gone and we miss out. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">We could be using the additional revenue from a gas export tax to actually electrify homes, businesses and transport, to be insulating ourselves from these huge global shocks and to be investing in things that are actually anti-inflationary at a time where we see inflation wreaking havoc. And so let's be clear here. The campaign for a 25 per cent gas export tax is not going away no matter how much the government tries to ignore it and pretend like it didn't come from the ACTU. It's not going away. It's here to stay. One day we'll make it happen.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Heavy Vehicle Rest Areas Steering Committee</title>
          <page.no>36</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Heavy Vehicle Rest Areas Steering Committee</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>36</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Sterle, Sen Glenn</name>
              <name.id>e68</name.id>
              <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="e68" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator STERLE</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Western Australia</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">13:03</span>):  It is with great pleasure today that I speak about the Heavy Vehicle Rest Areas Steering Committee, which I had the honour of chairing for the past four years. The committee's terms of reference have recently expired, but I would like to take this opportunity to recognise the important work undertaken by the committee and, of course, its dedicated members. The Heavy Vehicle Rest Areas Steering Committee was established in late 2022 to support the Heavy Vehicle Rest Area initiative. This is a 10-year program providing $140 million in funding through to 2031-32. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">The committee held its first meeting in February of 2023, before the first tranche of funding opened. Since then, we have assessed the strategic fit of no less than 58 eligible projects around Australia, with 31 of those projects approved, providing almost $50 million in Australian government funding. Now, six of these projects have been completed under the initiative, and all those projects were assessed appropriately by the steering committee.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">The committee's discussions also went beyond individual funding applications. Members regularly raised broader issues affecting heavy vehicle drivers and the freight industry, including freight network operations, rest area amenities and maintenance, access to driver services, user-pays charging and consultation on Austroads's heavy vehicle rest area guidelines. These discussions provided valuable insights to departmental officers who attended our meetings. In fact, some officials even had the opportunity to gain firsthand experience, and an understanding of the industry, by getting into a truck and getting to see what life is like out on the road. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">This is why I was particularly grateful to Minister Catherine King for agreeing to establish a steering committee made up of drivers and industry representatives. I believe it was essential that applications for this funding were assessed by people with genuine experience of life behind the wheel and an understanding of what truck drivers need when we are out on the road. I was very proud to chair this committee, which comprised nine—or 10, including me—industry representatives and seven—or eight, when I include myself—truck drivers, all bringing our own experience and expertise. I confess that I am still a truck driver and I am still sleeping in truck bays. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Our industry representatives were Michelle Harwood—an absolute legend in the transport industry—Executive Director of the Tasmanian Transport Association, and Mr Paul Ryan, a very well-known industry player who's currently a board member of Healthy Heads Trucks &amp; Sheds and chair of the Transport Education Audit Compliance Health Organisation, commonly known as TEACHO. Our truck drivers and industry representatives were Rod Hannifey—everyone knows Rod—long-term truck driver, road safety advocate and former president of the National Road Freighters Association; Johnny Beer, veteran long-distance truck driver and former president of the Australian Livestock &amp; Rural Transporters Association; Kellie Boland from Victoria, who is a committee member of NatRoad and a small-business owner; Bruce Skelton, a truck driver from Queensland; Frank Black, who's known to many of us in here, from South Australia, who is an owner-driver and a long-term TWU representative; none less than Heather Jones from Western Australia, an owner-operator and small-business operator who's also from Pilbara Heavy Haulage Girls; and, of course, Craig Forsyth, another owner-driver from New South Wales, who is from the National Road Freighters Association but is also one of the co-proprietors of <span style="font-style:italic;">Truckin</span><span style="font-style:italic;">'</span><span style="font-style:italic;"> Life</span> and <span style="font-style:italic;">On </span><span style="font-style:italic;">t</span><span style="font-style:italic;">he Road </span>radio. Together, these members brought decades of practical experience to the assessment process, and I thank every one of them for their commitment and contribution. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">While the committee's work has now concluded, I want to assure listeners and the road transport industry that the Heavy Vehicle Rest Area initiative continues under the SLRIP program, with $80.7 million still remaining in available funding over the next few years. I encourage state, territory and local governments to continue applying for this funding so that we can deliver more safe and appropriate rest areas for our essential truck drivers. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Finally, I am also very pleased—I'll have something else to talk about when I have a bit more time—to say that truck drivers and the transport industry still have a very, very loud and important voice in this parliament, and I want to thank the ministers for their engagement with the trucking industry. I'll end this with one sentence. There is no greater thing that we can deliver to this parliament, when we have the men and women who hold the steering wheel in their hands, than generations of truck drivers being represented and heard in this fine institution. </span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Artificial Intelligence</title>
          <page.no>37</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Artificial Intelligence</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>37</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Lambie, Sen Jacqui</name>
              <name.id>250026</name.id>
              <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
              <party>JLN</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="250026" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator LAMBIE</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Tasmania</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">13:08</span>):  Every time big corporations get a sniff of any regulation, they threaten to leave the country. Now big tech is jumping on the bandwagon. Open AI—that's ChatGPT, by the way—has issued an ultimatum to our government, telling the Prime Minister that, if he doesn't walk away from his promise to the Australian people to protect our copyright laws, it won't even consider investing in training in this country. Basically, they said, 'Let AI suck up all the Aussie music, books, movies and art or we won't be investing in this country.' That's their ultimatum.' </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">They tried this on in the UK, but the British government told them they weren't changing their copyright laws. They are trying it on here. Big tech is trying this on all over the world. They're like dinosaurs from <span style="font-style:italic;">Jurassic Park</span>. They're testing the fences. They tried it on in Europe, and Europe also said no. Denmark have gone one further. They've been bigger. They are passing laws that give people control over their voices and their images. With other Western countries standing up for their copyright laws, we are next. As OpenAI's senior vice-president told the <span style="font-style:italic;">Australian</span> newspaper, we are 'a good target'.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">OpenAI are doing nothing but bullying the Australian government into letting AI steal Australian stories in exchange for AI training. This is such rubbish. It's not hard to pay for copyright. Australia already has a copyright system that protects its artists and makes sure they are paid for the work that they do, and that is the way it should be. Big tech just doesn't want to pay. They want it for free because they're greedy and have no moral compass. And it's not like they don't have the money, hey! Some of these companies are valued in the trillions of dollars. Some of them have more money than nation-states. It's not that they can't pay; it's that they don't want to pay. It's that simple.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">The government needs to stand its ground. The Prime Minister has said that no company should use Australian creative work to train artificial intelligence without permission, because that is simply theft. The Labor government says it's bringing on laws to deal with AI and data centres in January. That's good, but we really need to get going on this stuff. The government says these new laws will make data centres limit their water use and pay for their energy. That's all good, but we won't see these laws until January. We don't sit until February, and it is very unlikely that they will be in place and working before July 2027. Meanwhile, the data centres they have already approved won't be touched by these laws, because these laws won't be retrospective. That's the first stupid move you've made.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">You know what the problem is here? AI data centres, copyright laws—big tech is moving at the speed of light, and our laws aren't keeping up. So we are playing catch-up, as usual. And we didn't need to be. Former minister Mr Husic worked on an AI safety bill for three years—three years! He put his heart and soul into it. Then the government moved him to the back bench and scrapped the bill. If you go back over comments from Labor ministers after that happened, all we heard was that Australia was a great place to invest. And Australia is a great place to invest, but that doesn't mean we should give trillion-dollar companies free rein or a free ride.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Western Australia: Defence Industry</title>
          <page.no>38</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Western Australia: Defence Industry</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>38</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Whiteaker, Sen Ellie</name>
              <name.id>316555</name.id>
              <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="316555" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator WHITEAKER</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Western Australia</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">13:12</span>):  It's always a good day when the Prime Minister visits Western Australia, and it's an even better day when he comes to my neck of the woods in Perth's southern suburbs. I can tell you that his visit to Henderson a couple of weeks ago with the Deputy Prime Minister really meant something to Western Australians. The Prime Minister stood at Henderson with Premier Roger Cook and the Deputy Prime Minister and confirmed the site for the new Defence precinct. It is backed by a $12 billion investment from our government, and it will support 10,000 jobs over the next decade. It will support the workers who will build the Navy's new frigates and the Army's landing craft and sustain the submarines that will keep our nation safe. And it'll all happen just 10 minutes down the road from my local community.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Defence is on track to become Western Australia's second-largest industry within the decade. In a state that, for a long time, has powered the national economy by digging things out of the ground, this is a remarkable thing to be able to say. We're making more things in WA and building Australia's defence-manufacturing future. For a long time, families in Cockburn, Kwinana and Rockingham have been told that, to get a good job that pays well, you've got to head up north, and that a career in heavy industry means spending a lot of time in airports. But this investment in Henderson opens up more good, skilled jobs closer to home for so many Western Australians. The question I get asked most about this work in Henderson is not whether or not it will happen but who will do the work, because the ships don't weld themselves. We'll need thousands of welders, fabricators, sparkies and fitters, along with engineers and technicians.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Many of those workers have not finished school yet, and some of them are still probably spending more time negotiating with their parents about whether they'll be allowed to go trick or treating on Halloween or perhaps what they want on their Christmas list. That's why this work has to start now. When the kids that are in school today are thinking about the jobs that they might like to do in the future, it's really important that this defence industry is part of that conversation.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">The work that the state Labor government is doing is one of the things that I'm really proud of. They have implemented a year 9 career taster program, putting students in real workshops before they choose their senior high school subjects. The WA Labor government has recently announced that they'll be expanding that project, investing $3 million to include defence industries. I think that, when a 14-year-old picks up a welding torch and thinks, 'I could actually do this myself,' it's worth its weight in gold. That curiosity, of course, only gets you so far. Training the workers who are going to do this work, giving them the skills that they need, is really important.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">What's going to get people into those jobs is TAFE. Our government has invested in free TAFE for thousands of courses, many in these really crucial industries that we need. Between January 2024 and March this year, Western Australia recorded 87,004 free TAFE enrolments. That's a really impressive number. The target was more like 22,000. We've beaten it by nearly four times. In most portfolios, missing a number by that much might earn you a long afternoon of questioning in Senate estimates, but this is a target that I think we can be really proud of exceeding. It tells you that thousands of Western Australians are keen and ready to do this work. In removing the cost barrier that comes with TAFE courses, we have been able to give them that opportunity.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Fee-free courses in Western Australia include everything from cybersecurity to electronics and engineering. These are exactly the kinds of skills that the Henderson Defence Precinct will run on. South Metropolitan TAFE is just down the road from the Henderson Defence Precinct, and the TAFE's naval base campus has 45 welding bays, low-fee trade courses and incentives of up to $20,000 for every defence apprentice an employer takes on. The cost of a course should not be the barrier that stands in the way of a young person getting the skills that they need.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Energy</title>
          <page.no>38</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Energy</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>38</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Hanson, Sen Pauline</name>
              <name.id>BK6</name.id>
              <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
              <party>ON</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="BK6" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator HANSON</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Leader of One Nation</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">13:17</span>):  I want to place on the <span style="font-style:italic;">Hansard</span> record an abridged version of a very important article by Chris Uhlmann from last weekend that is well worth repeating. He wrote:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">At the turn of the 20th century Australia and Argentina were among the richest countries on Earth. One would broadly fulfil its promise. The other would endure a century of economic pain.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">Bad politics played no small part in the difference.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">Call it Argentinisation, where politicians contrive to beggar a rich country. This would be yeoman's work in 21st-century Australia because we have such a rich inheritance.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">…   …   …</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">We could afford to do that because Australia was blessed with abundant and cheap energy. Victoria built an electricity system on vast, dirt-cheap brown coal reserves and tapped the oil and gas in Bass Strait. NSW and Queensland have enormous amounts of high-quality black coal. Later, Western Australia harnessed massive gas reserves. The wheels of industry hummed.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">…   …   …</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">Squandering all this would take time and almost supernatural ineptitude. But with dedication it could be done. So, how would you set this nation on a highway to hell?</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">Well, begin with wilfully increasing the cost of energy and making it scarce.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">To ensure serious harm, embed rising costs in the architecture of the electricity system by replacing dense, predictable generation with a vastly larger agglomeration of taxpayer-subsidised, wildly dispersed, weather-dependent energy gatherers.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">String it together with thousands of kilometres of transmission lines hooked up to a life-support system of batteries and stability services. Then build enough dispatchable backup to meet 100 per cent of demand for those in inevitable times when the wind does not blow, the sun does not shine and the batteries run flat.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">The total system cost of this electricity Frankenstein is almost impossible to calculate but it must be paid. And that's what drives the retail energy bill ever higher.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">…   …   …</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">Then attack the businesses that produce energy and those that make and move things. This is best done by turning carbon emissions into a cost for large miners, manufacturers, transport operators and oil and gas producers. Then watch those costs work their way through every supply chain they touch. Create government-issued carbon credits that businesses can buy, sell and surrender to meet their obligations. Call the whole apparatus something comforting, purposeful and planet-saving, like the safeguard mechanism.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">Best not to ask what, precisely, is being safeguarded. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">This instrument of self-harm works best when Australian producers face carbon costs that competitors overseas do not. That way local industry gets the expense while foreign companies get the advantage.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">…   …   …</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">Then attack the nation's comparative advantages.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">If you have enormous mineral resources, make developing them absurdly difficult. Lengthen approvals, multiply conditions, increase charges and create a minefield of environmental laws.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">…   …   …</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">Make every mine, factory, apartment block, road, transmission line, data centre and major project slower, harder and more expensive to approve. No single regulation need be fatal. No one regulation to rule them all, just a million rules to bind them.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">…   …   …</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">Housing is rich with opportunity. Promise to make houses more affordable while reassuring homeowners that their houses won't lose value. Try not to dwell on the contradiction.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">Then constrain supply while subsidising demand and marvel as prices rise. Pour more money into helping people buy houses without ensuring there are enough houses to buy.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">…   …   …</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">Call the whole shebang a housing affordability strategy.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">…   …   …</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">Make sure the population grows faster than productive capital, housing and infrastructure. This produces a particularly useful statistical trick. Headline GDP rises while GDP per person stagnates. Clever governments can boast that the economy is growing while the people living in it wonder why they feel poorer.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">…   …   …</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">None of these measures alone will ruin a rich country. That is the beauty of the plan. Each regulation has a justification. Each subsidy has a beneficiary. Each spending program serves a worthy purpose. Each tax raises necessary revenue. Each environmental restriction protects something valuable. Each sounds progressive in a press release.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">The trick is accumulation.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Thanks, Chris. Great article. One Nation is the only party that gets it and will put the brakes on stopping Australia.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Women's Reproductive Health</title>
          <page.no>39</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Women's Reproductive Health</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>39</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Payman, Sen Fatima</name>
              <name.id>300707</name.id>
              <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
              <party>AV</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="300707" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator PAYMAN</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Western Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Australia's Voice Whip</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">13:22</span>):  Twelve hours of induction, of pain, of my body being pushed to its limit and then an emergency caesarean I was not prepared for—I remember shaking on that operating table, not from cold but from adrenaline and fear as they cut through seven layers to bring my daughter, Aaliyah, into the world. Then came the part nobody warns you about. My husband was sent home, and I was left alone at 2 am, numb from the waist down and holding a newborn who was hungry, and I had no idea how to breastfeed her. In the bed beside me, another first-time mother faced the same night, the very same silence and the very same fear—two women, two babies, zero support. Let that sink in, colleagues.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">We ask women to survive major abdominal surgery and then, within hours, to feed, soothe and lift a newborn completely on their own. I don't blame the midwives or the nurses. They're stretched thin, doing the work of three people on every shift. This is not a staffing failure alone. This is a systemic failure, and it doesn't end at discharge. It becomes the mental load that follows you home. Am I feeding her right? Am I a good mother? Am I doing any of this properly? It's sleep deprivation that studies liken to driving drunk. It's the quiet triumph of a shower before 3 pm. Mothers carry this, and they carry it silently, because we've told them that, unless you've lived it, you won't understand.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">We need to stop asking women to soldier on in silence. We need to fix the system underneath them. Let's start with paid reproductive leave. The ACTU has been calling for this. It is a dedicated national entitlement so women aren't forced to burn through sick leave or go without pay to manage pregnancy, birth recovery and the health conditions that come with reproduction. This should not be a luxury but the dignified right of every woman. Secondly, let's accommodate partners in hospital rooms. No woman should ever be left alone, numb and bleeding, hours after major surgery, trying to keep a newborn alive through sheer will. Partners are not visitors; they are essential care. Finally, we need to prioritise informed consent. Asherman's Syndrome Australia has spoken out about the continued routine use of sharp curettes in procedures following miscarriage, retained placenta and postpartum haemorrhage, despite the World Health Organization and numerous clinical bodies warning that sharp curettes carry a significantly higher risk of scarring the uterus than safer alternatives. Women are waking up from these procedures to find out, sometimes years later, that they can no longer have children, and they were never properly told of the risks that existed. Every woman deserves to give full informed consent before an instrument like this is used on her body. That starts with reclassifying the curette for what it is—a higher risk instrument. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Colleagues, having a baby is one of the most beautiful identity-altering experiences a person can go through. It is also, quite frankly, bloody tough. We do women no favours by pretending otherwise. That is why I welcome the new Senate Select Committee into Women's Health, chaired by Senator Marielle Smith, examining exactly these postpartum experiences. To every woman watching this: your story is not too small, and it is not too painful to be heard. Whether it's just two sentences or two pages, please make a submission. Tell them what your 12 hours looked like. Tell them who was and who wasn't in the room with you, because policy built without women's voices in the room will keep failing women in the room next door. It's time the system finally caught up to what mothers have always known. Thank you.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Women's Reproductive Health</title>
          <page.no>40</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Women's Reproductive Health</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>40</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Green, Sen Nita</name>
              <name.id>259819</name.id>
              <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="259819" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator GREEN</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Assistant Minister for Tourism, Assistant Minister for Pacific Island Affairs and Assistant Minister for Northern Australia</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">13:27</span>):  I take this opportunity to put on the record my thanks to Senator Payman for raising these issues around postpartum health. It is a very big issue that this government is really keen to hear about from women, and I want to acknowledge that pain and trauma that you experienced during your birth. It's not an uncommon story. That's the truth of it. I was able to say to you privately after you spoke the other day that I had a very similar experience. The truth is that so many women in Australia are having birth-trauma experiences for a range of reasons, and we really want to understand what those reasons are. The select committee that is being championed by Senator Marielle Smith—but supported around the chamber, it must be said, by women across party lines—will be an opportunity for these stories to be told. There was a very similar inquiry in New South Wales a few years ago, and it uncovered terrible stories of treatment that we hear from time to time in the news but that we just don't hear enough of. The impact of having a traumatic birth or a terrible experience in a hospital after you have a baby can really impact your ability to parent, your ability to bond with that child and the desire to have another child or be pregnant again. That's something that no woman should really have to deal with. Participating in this inquiry is an opportunity that Australian women should not miss. It's an opportunity for the Senate to really shine in what it is able to achieve in terms of policy changes at a state and federal level, and I really do encourage everyone to participate. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">While I'm on my feet and talking about the joys of pregnancy, I might just give a shout-out to our colleague Senator Mulholland, who is heavily pregnant right now, and she is still working. She literally stood up at a press conference today. I have given her the direct message that, once that baby is born, it will be time to put her feet up and take care of that child. Hopefully, she will listen to us. I wanted to give a shout-out to her because she is doing an incredible job.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="274506" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT </span>
                  </a>
                  <span class="HPS-GeneralBold">(</span>
                  <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Sharma</span>
                  <span class="HPS-GeneralBold">):</span>  It being 1.30, we will now proceed to two-minute statements.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>40</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Sharma, Sen Dave (The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>274506</name.id>
                <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Simplot Company</title>
          <page.no>41</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Simplot Company</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>41</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Colbeck, Sen Richard</name>
              <name.id>00AOL</name.id>
              <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
              <party>LP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="00AOL" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator COLBECK</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Tasmania</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">13:30</span>):  A week before last, in response to a message I received from a potato grower in my home state of Tasmania, I convened a meeting of growers who were concerned about the treatment that they were receiving from American based company Simplot in the negotiations for the price for the coming season. Last season, Simplot sent their American toecutters out to try to bully the farmers into accepting a cut in their price, and the farmers managed to negotiate a price that didn't change, which was effectively a price cut. This year, the same toecutters are there, and they're trying to bully the farmers into accepting a 2.5 per cent price cut.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">The behaviour is quite unacceptable. What they're trying to do is to go around the bargaining group that's been approved by the ACCC to support growers in their negotiations with Simplot, and pick off the farmers one by one. But what really disturbed me, Acting Deputy President Polley—being a Tasmanian, you would understand this—was that there were some farmers who were too frightened to come and meet with me, one of their elected representatives, for fear of retribution from Simplot. That behaviour by Simplot is simply a disgrace.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">I have spoken to Woolworths about it, I intend to talk to McDonald's about it, and I intend to talk to Coles about it, because these are the companies that are benefiting and taking the product from Simplot. Farmers are expected—through the systems that Coles, Woolworths and McDonald's have in place—to comply with all these social and environmental standards, and it's only reasonable that companies like Simplot do exactly the same thing. We will not let this go.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Ethical Clothing Australia Week</title>
          <page.no>41</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Ethical Clothing Australia Week</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>41</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Darmanin, Sen Lisa</name>
              <name.id>301128</name.id>
              <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="301128" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator DARMANIN</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Victoria</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Deputy Government Whip in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">13:32</span>):  This week is Ethical Clothing Australia Week, and this year's theme is All Clothing is Handmade. It's food for thought; in an age where clothing is seemingly endless and at our fingertips, it is worth remembering that each of those items has a skilled pair of hands—usually, many pairs of hands—behind it.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">The process of making an item is increasingly fragmented. What that means is that, while one human designs it, a different human might develop the pattern. Humans cut the fabric and material, assemble it, check it for quality and prepare it for dispatch. No matter where you buy your clothing from or how much it costs, skilled workers are involved. What is less certain is how much they're paid and how they are treated at work.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">I also note that the most ethical clothing is the clothing that you already own. I've owned this cat dress for 10 years now and I still love to wear it, obviously. I wear it so often that I'm taking it to the tailor next week to extend its life.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">I want to acknowledge Ethical Clothing Australia, who organise this week. ECA accredit Australian businesses and makers who are doing the right thing by protecting and upholding the rights of Australian garment workers.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">One of those businesses is Hatch and Make. Dave, the CEO, subscribes to a circular economy in his business, seeking to prevent materials from ever becoming waste and championing the regeneration of nature. It is a challenging and admirable aspiration. Our globalised world means the different steps of the manufacturing process often need to occur across multiple countries. Dave cites the processing of Australian wool as an example of this.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">This week is a reminder to reflect on who makes our clothes and how they are treated. I certainly have been and I encourage others to do the same.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Gender Dysphoria</title>
          <page.no>41</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Gender Dysphoria</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>41</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Allman-Payne, Sen Penny</name>
              <name.id>298839</name.id>
              <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
              <party>AG</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="298839" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator ALLMAN-PAYNE</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">13:34</span>):  Gender-affirming care is health care. Within hours of the Queensland Supreme Court's decision to overturn the unlawful ban against puberty blockers and hormone therapy for young gender-diverse people in Queensland, the anti-healthcare Queensland LNP government reinstated it. Now young people are banding together, represented by the Queensland LGBTI Legal Service, in a class action to uphold their human rights. This class action will challenge the power of governments to rip the right to health care from whole groups of people with just the stroke of a pen, and we must all band together to support them, because when governments attempt, on discriminatory grounds, to restrict health care for one group of people, you can bet they'll later discriminate against more of us. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Just two years ago, the very same Queensland LNP wanted to reverse hard-won abortion rights in Queensland. This year the Queensland government has opened a new public hospital in Springfield and, although it's taxpayer funded, it's being run by Mater, who refuse to provide essential care such as voluntary assisted dying, abortion or contraception. These types of decisions are not made with genuine healthcare concerns in mind. They are motivated by control, transphobia and misogyny. I commend the young people in Queensland who are brave enough to hold the LNP state government accountable through this class action, but it is ridiculous that this fight has to be fought in the first place. Gender-affirming care is safe, it's life saving and it must be protected.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Economy</title>
          <page.no>42</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Economy</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>42</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">McDonald, Sen Susan</name>
              <name.id>123072</name.id>
              <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
              <party>LNP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="123072" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator McDONALD</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Deputy Leader of the Nationals in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">13:36</span>):  Labor promised Australians a future made in Australia. Instead, it's a future subsidised by Australia. Workers at Whyalla were promised they would have a green hydrogen supported future. Instead, they've all lost their jobs. The Albanese government has created the conditions that have ended these jobs. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">In Whyalla, the blast furnace has been shut down. Australia, the world's largest exporter of iron ore and one of the world's great exporters of met coal, has lost the blast furnace that produced most of our structural steel. The Liberty Bell Bay magnesium smelter has shut its doors. BHP's Nickel West operations remain suspended. Nyrstar's lead and zinc smelters have required hundreds of millions of dollars in government support. Aluminium smelters at Tomago and Boyne Island needed more than $4 billion in government funds to keep going. The Mount Isa copper smelter is surviving with a $600 million grant. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">The coalition doesn't want Australia de-industrialised. We want Australian jobs to remain in Australia. Labor refuses to accept reality. You cannot make energy more expensive, impose additional taxes under the safeguards mechanism, delay development of resources and create hostile workplace laws and then expect Australian industries to survive. The coalition is introducing legislation to restore fast-track approval pathways for energy projects of critical sovereign and national significance. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">The coalition doesn't want Australian smelters surviving on bailouts. We want them expanding, employing more Australians and competing with the world. That's what a real future Australia looks like, and it's a philosophy the coalition will hold in government. The fight for Australia is on, and the coalition is up for that fight. We will put Australians first, unleash our full energy potential, scrap net zero, lower taxes and allow our nation's industries to get on with the job.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Superannuation</title>
          <page.no>42</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Superannuation</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>42</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Brown, Sen Carol</name>
              <name.id>F49</name.id>
              <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="F49" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CAROL BROWN</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Tasmania</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">13:38</span>):  One Nation is calling its latest economic announcement a super pay boost, but there is no boost. There is no new money. What it is is a stunt dressed up as economic policy. They are taking money that would otherwise go into a worker's retirement savings and handing part of it back today. Under One Nation's proposal, renters and mortgage holders could divert three per cent of their wages from compulsory super for up to three years. Super Members Council modelling estimates a median full-time worker using the scheme could retire around $25,000 worse off, and a couple could be more than $50,000 worse off. That is the real trade-off—a few dollars today, with a much bigger cost waiting at retirement.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Since coming to government, Labor has taken a different approach. We have seen the super guarantee rise from 10.5 per cent to 12 per cent. We've legislated an objective for superannuation to preserve savings and deliver income for a dignified retirement.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">We've introduced super on the Commonwealth Paid Parental Leave because taking time out of the workforce to raise a child should not mean retiring with less. And, from 1 July this year, payday super means workers' super is paid with their wages, helping people get their money sooner and benefit from compounding earlier. These are practical changes designed to strengthen retirement incomes.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">One Nation has opposed key measures along the way, including payday super. One Nation voted against adding super to the Commonwealth funded parental scheme. You can't take money from Australians' retirement and dress it up as a pay rise. You would not make them richer. You would not make them better off in the long run. You would simply have shifted the money and left them worse off in retirement.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Agriculture Industry</title>
          <page.no>42</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Agriculture Industry</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>42</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Hanson, Sen Pauline</name>
              <name.id>BK6</name.id>
              <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
              <party>ON</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="BK6" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator HANSON</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Leader of One Nation</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">13:40</span>):  I was privileged to meet with members of the Custom Footrot R-Pilus vaccine taskforce yesterday. It broke my heart to hear what sheep farmers across Australia go through in dealing with footrot. In 2022, it was estimated footrot costs the industry more than $83 million per year in treatment costs and lost production. Up to 2020, farmers had access to an effective and inexpensive footrot vaccine developed and manufactured right here in Australia—Custom R-Pilus. It was discontinued due to market failure, and now farmers only have access to less effective and more expensive vaccines manufactured overseas. I'm informed that, at the cost of just $1.5 million, the Australian manufacturer is willing to resume manufacture of the vaccine. This is less than one per cent of the $171 million compensation package offered to farmers when Labor ended live sheep export.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">I want to commend Mardon sheep farmer Rebecca Hamilton for her tireless efforts in lobbying for the vaccine to be made available to the industry again. Like her, I was stonewalled in raising this matter with the Labor government, which has been fighting an undeclared war against Australian agriculture. Labor isn't interested in dealing with this animal welfare issue. Labor gives $2.5 billion to Tomago and $600 million for a Papua New Guinea football team. Labor has wasted $9 billion on green hydrogen, while Snowy Hydro has blown out to $42 billion. But Labor won't give a measly $1½ million for Australian sheep farmers.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">I'm putting out a call to people who'd like to donate and step in where Labor will not and help our most iconic agricultural industry. If you're interested in donating to this to get the $1.5 million to start this manufacturing in Australia—New South Wales, actually—I'd suggest people call my office, because they desperately need your help. Labor have failed them. They've failed the industry. <span style="font-style:italic;">(Time expired)</span></span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Albanese Government</title>
          <page.no>43</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Albanese Government</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>43</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">McGrath, Sen James</name>
              <name.id>217241</name.id>
              <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
              <party>LNP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="217241" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator McGRATH</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">13:42</span>):  Another day, another Labor scandal and more ministers hiding from transparency like the plague. I'm calling out the Prime Minister for allocating $6 million to his own local golf club from Labor's local community infrastructure program, or, as it's known, Labor's slush fund. The Prime Minister claims everything is above board—'Nothing to see here. I didn't make the decision.' But what have we since learnt? Well, the Prime Minister is an honorary member of the golf club. The Prime Minister has a longstanding relationship with the club and has even used it for his own political fundraisers. The Prime Minister announced the $6 million grant months before the grant scheme even opened and made the announcement in his own name with no reference to the so-called deciding minister. But he also hasn't mentioned he owns a home a couple of hundred metres from the golf club. So the Prime Minister has serious questions to answer here because not only did he not tell the truth about his relationship to the club—and it's not unusual that the Prime Minister didn't tell the truth—but he also failed to declare the conflict of interest. He is the one who handed the golf club $6 million from a scheme that wasn't even in operation.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">We thought that was pretty bad. Then along came the health minister, Mark Butler. He said to the Prime Minister, 'Hold my beer because I'm going to give $6 million to my local soccer club.' This was a soccer club that didn't have the plans in place and didn't have the costings or anything like that. The health minister just said, 'Take the money,' no questions asked.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">This is a disturbing story of how the Labor Party are using taxpayers' money to prop up their own election interests. I'm glad the Senate is going to inquire into this. I'm disappointed but not surprised that Labor voted against the inquiry.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Internet Content</title>
          <page.no>43</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Internet Content</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>43</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Stewart, Sen Jana</name>
              <name.id>299352</name.id>
              <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="299352" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator STEWART</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Victoria</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">13:44</span>):  Every day, First Nations people go online and cop racism. For our mob, racism has always been a part of everyday life. What's changed is that social media makes it worse and puts it right in front of our kids. I chair the racism inquiry, and I've heard these stories firsthand. Person after person told us the online world isn't safe for our mob—especially not for our young ones. Their stories were really heartbreaking to hear, but they didn't surprise me.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">And it doesn't stay online. The hate spills into the real world. It follows our people into the street, the schoolyard and the workplace, and too often it turns into violence. It's not just anonymous trolls either; this week we've seen One Nation at it again, the same racism they've peddled for decades. Whether it comes from trolls online or someone in this building, it is the same hate. And it's not abstract to me; I myself am somebody who's copped it.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">So what are the platforms doing about any of this? Meta told the inquiry they don't have a single person checking content here in Australia. Others, like X, were invited to participate but chose not to attend. When a company admits it has no-one here protecting our mob from that hate, it tells you everything. There's no place for racism and hate in this country, on- or offline. Our mob deserve more than to feel safe; they deserve to be safe. These are some of the most powerful companies in the world. The idea that they can't find one person to keep our mob safe here isn't about money. It's about choice, and, every day they choose not to, it's a kid lying on the couch, phone in hand, scrolling online for a laugh but instead reading that their people don't belong. Enough is enough. It's time that these platforms were held to account. Leaving them to police themselves isn't working. <span style="font-style:italic;">(Time expired)</span></span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Labor Government</title>
          <page.no>43</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Labor Government</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>43</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Hodgins-May, Sen Steph</name>
              <name.id>310860</name.id>
              <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
              <party>AG</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="310860" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator HODGINS-MAY</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Victoria</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">13:46</span>):  I want to acknowledge International Day of Democracy by acknowledging what a sorry state our democracy is in. Everywhere you look, this Labor government has found new ways to erode trust in democracy. We have the dirty, dodgy invite-only grant scheme, worth half a billion dollars, directed to Labor held seats, including $6 million for a golf club where the Prime Minister holds an honorary membership. Labor's hypocrisy is extraordinary. They jumped at the chance to scrutinise the coalition's sports rorts scandal but tried to squirm away and amend our Greens initiated inquiry into their own grants rort. Well, not on our watch.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">And that's not all this week. Documents released today show Minister Butler's office urged a council to develop a soccer precinct proposal before it had been properly scoped or costed and then pledged $5 million before the election—writing a cheque first and then asking questions later, all to save his own bacon. These outrageous examples are coming across my desk faster than I can call them out.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Today, another doozy has landed. While Labor develops the rules for the gas industry via their botched gas reservation scheme, Minister for Resources Madeleine King has been schmoozed with gifts from Woodside, including free tickets to footy games. How convenient! How gullible do the Labor government think we are—to believe that the resources minister is regulating the gas industry in the public's interest on one hand while she's holding the other hand out for freebies from the footy clubs and the industry that they're meant to be regulating? Regulating the gas industry in the public interest—honestly, you cannot accept gifts from the very industries you're trying to regulate. Labor talks a big game on democracy, but, when it comes to integrity, transparency and accountability, this government fails at every step. <span style="font-style:italic;">(Time expired)</span></span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Freedom of Speech</title>
          <page.no>44</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Freedom of Speech</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>44</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Babet, Sen Ralph</name>
              <name.id>300706</name.id>
              <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
              <party>UAP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="300706" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator BABET</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Victoria</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">United Australia Party Whip</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">13:48</span>):  The progressive left has discovered one of the most powerful weapons in politics: not a gun but a dictionary. Control language and you begin to control thought. If people lose the words to describe an idea, eventually they also lose the ability to defend it. This is how the boundaries of acceptable thought are quietly redrawn. Disagreement becomes hate. Abortion becomes health care. State assisted suicide becomes death with dignity. Gay marriage becomes marriage equality. Illegal immigrants become undocumented migrants. Censorship becomes content moderation. Government spending becomes investment.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Notice what happens: the argument is half won before it even begins. Who opposes health care? Who denies dignity? Who is against equality? The language itself frames a moral answer. Once those loaded terms are accepted, anyone who challenges the policy can be made to sound cruel, ignorant or extreme before they've even opened their mouth. Orwell understood this. Political control of language can become control over imagination. The most effective censorship is not banning a thought; it's about making that thought difficult to express. If every objection is called 'hate', every inconvenient fact 'misinformation' and every traditional belief 'harmful', eventually people will just censor themselves. The dictionary becomes a fence and, once that fence is built, the prison doesn't need bars.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">This is why I defend free speech so strongly. Free speech protects free thought and, without the freedom to think, speak and argue openly, we are not truly free. We must resist the policing of language and defend the right of all of us to call things the way that we see them, even if others are offended. That is the essence of freedom.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Medicare</title>
          <page.no>44</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Medicare</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>44</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Dowling, Sen Richard</name>
              <name.id>55842</name.id>
              <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="55842" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator DOWLING</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Tasmania</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">13:50</span>):  There's some very good news for the people of Risdon Vale just outside of Hobart on Tasmania's eastern shore. The Tasmanian government is opening a new GP clinic that will provide 20,000 fully bulk-billed appointments every year. I welcome it, but it's worth explaining what makes those appointments possible. The state government, yes, is providing the clinic, but the appointments are powered by Medicare. When someone walks through the door, sees a GP, shows their Medicare card and leaves without a bill, Medicare pays for that consultation.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Our government has substantially increased support for bulk-billing. Since November last year, we have expanded the bulk-billing incentive to every Medicare eligible Australian. Practices that fully bulk-bill can also receive additional incentives worth 12½ per cent of eligible Medicare benefits. The results in Tasmania are clear. The number of fully bulk-billing GP practices has risen from 26 to 72—that is 72 fully bulk-billed GP practices in Tasmania. Forty-five practices have switched from mixed billing to fully bulk-billing, and Tasmania's GP bulk-billing rate has climbed by more than seven per cent to almost 81 per cent. That is GP bulk-billing rates of 81 per cent.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">There is a certain irony here. If you think back to the last state election, TassieDoc was originally developed by Tasmanian Labor and described as 'powered by Medicare'. The Tasmanian Liberals liked the idea so much they adopted it and now Risdon Vale will benefit. I'm happy to give the Rockliff government credit for establishing the clinic, but you cannot build a model powered by Medicare and pretend Commonwealth investment has nothing to do with it. The state is putting a roof over the doctors' heads. Medicare is making sure patients walk out the door without a bill. That is federal Labor government investment working exactly as intended.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Neill-Fraser, Ms Susan Blyth (Sue)</title>
          <page.no>44</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Neill-Fraser, Ms Susan Blyth (Sue)</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>44</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Lambie, Sen Jacqui</name>
              <name.id>250026</name.id>
              <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
              <party>JLN</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="250026" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator LAMBIE</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Tasmania</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">13:52</span>):  Sue Neill-Fraser was found guilty of murdering her partner, Bob Chappell, aboard their yacht in Hobart in 2009. Ms Neill-Fraser has always protested her innocence and no body has ever been found, and no murder weapon either. But she was convicted and sentenced to 26 years in prison. Sue was released on parole in 2022, thank God, but, when in late 2024 she was approached by <span style="font-style:italic;">60 Minutes</span>, Ms Neill-Fraser did the right thing and advised the Parole Board of Tasmania about a possible upcoming story. The Parole Board added a condition that she not speak 'directly or indirectly with any media outlet to claim her alleged innocence or wrongful conviction'. But then, in May 2025, they made the condition even more restrictive, which meant she couldn't even talk about her case with her family, her friends and her supporters.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Yesterday, in the Supreme Court in Hobart, Justice Stephen Estcourt ruled the condition was invalid because it denied Sue Neill-Fraser procedural fairness, was legally unreasonable and created uncertainty. But, wait, that's not the shocking part. Neill-Fraser's barrister, Patrick Coleridge, told the court the Parole Board secretary used artificial intelligence to prepare a rationale justifying the parole condition, citing case law that was fictitious and likely AI hallucinations. Sarah Schwartz from the Human Rights Law Centre said yesterday:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">It's really concerning that the Parole Board of Tasmania, a public authority, used AI in generating this document that so severely has restricted our client's fundamental freedoms.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">I hope the Human Rights Law Centre and others will be watching the upcoming parliamentary inquiry into Tasmania Police, because, let me tell you, there is a lot more to be concerned about.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Aboriginal Deaths in Custody</title>
          <page.no>45</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Aboriginal Deaths in Custody</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>45</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Thorpe, Sen Lidia</name>
              <name.id>280304</name.id>
              <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
              <party>IND</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="280304" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator THORPE</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Victoria</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Independent VIC Whip</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">13:54</span>):  Heather Calgaret was a proud Yamatji, Noongar, Wongi and Pitjantjatjara woman. She was a mother to four beautiful children whom she loved dearly. She was a rock of her family, always helping and caring for everyone, and described by her sister Suzzane as her 'soulmate' and 'other half'. She was very proud of her culture and enjoyed painting and writing. In October 2019, while on remand, Heather gave birth to her baby while shackled to the hospital bed. In Victoria, shackling during childbirth is not supposed to happen unless there are exceptional circumstances, but Corrections Victoria have acknowledged that it happens anyway. This is a dehumanising practice. It contributed to the compounding trauma endured by Heather during the birth of her baby and had a long-lasting impact. Just days later, Heather's baby was removed from her care. In November 2021, Heather died in custody after being administered a high dose of buprenorphine, a drug used to treat opioid addiction. She had no history of opiate use. She was found in a critical condition by her sister, Suzzane. She was 30 years old.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">My bill, currently before parliament, would ban shackling during childbirth. Heather should still be here with us today. Her life was precious and her passing was preventable. This government must pass my bill to ensure that people like Heather no longer experience this state perpetrated violence.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Economy</title>
          <page.no>45</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Economy</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>45</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Hume, Sen Jane</name>
              <name.id>266499</name.id>
              <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
              <party>LP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="266499" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator HUME</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Victoria</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Deputy Leader of the Opposition</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">13:56</span>):  It's nice to know that some Labor MPs and senators have finally woken up to reality. The news today is that Labor MPs are voicing their concerns behind closed doors over the prospect of more interest rate hikes and stalling living standards. The problem, of course, is that Australian families have been living this reality for years now. Household budgets are being crushed, real wages have gone backwards, the cost of housing has surged and then crashed and families now face the prospect of even higher interest rates. Labor MPs and senators know that small businesses are struggling. They know that regulation is holding businesses back, and they know that taxes are making it harder to invest and harder to employ. They just won't say this publicly. They know all this because their constituents and stakeholders are telling them every day. I even heard a story about one Labor MP being chased out of his own local coffee shop because the owner of that business was so angry about Labor's tax changes. And what is the Treasurer's response? Well, he said it could be worse—it could be worse! I'm sure that gives Australians very little comfort at night when they look at their own books. The reality is you, over there, all know what you have done to add to inflation. You know that the tax changes that you have introduced are making it harder to invest and harder to build more homes. You know that young Australians are facing a tougher road to homeownership, not an easier one. You know that the growing amount of red tape and regulation is making it harder for small businesses in particular to get ahead. You know that Australians are worse off under your government. The only people who are pretending that everything is alright are the Prime Minister, Anthony Albanese, and the Treasurer, Mr Chalmers. But a hope and a prayer is not an economic plan. You can't spend more, tax more and regulate more and then suddenly act surprised when Australians are paying more. Australians do not deserve excuses. They don't need excuses. They need a government that will actually fix the economy.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Labor Government</title>
          <page.no>45</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Labor Government</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>45</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Chisholm, Sen Anthony</name>
              <name.id>39801</name.id>
              <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="39801" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CHISHOLM</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Assistant Minister for Regional Development, Assistant Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, Assistant Minister for Resources and Deputy Manager of Government Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">13:58</span>):  Sadly for me—I've just clocked up 10 years in the Senate—I've never seen a more dispirited and disunited opposition than what we see at the moment. They are so divided, and they are an absolute mess as a result—constant negativity. There's been no better example of that than what we saw just then in the contribution from Senator Hume. We know they've got rid of one opposition leader and the clock is ticking on the second opposition leader. We know that they're out to get the member for Hume. The difference and the contrast between our side and their side couldn't be more stark. We are a united team focused on delivering tax cuts for every worker, focused on significant environmental reform, focused on a Future Made in Australia and focused on delivering an NDIA that's sustainable for the future of this country.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">So there is a clear contrast for the Australian people: a government that's united, focused on delivering real change for the Australian people, versus the rabble that we opposite, coming in here on a daily basis. They don't know whether to hug One Nation or fight One Nation. But the Australian people are paying attention. They see an Albanese Labor government that is delivering for Australian workers every day.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE</title>
        <page.no>46</page.no>
        <type>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <debate.text>
        <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
          <p class="HPS-Debate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Debate">QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE</span>
          </p>
        </body>
      </debate.text>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Members of Parliament: Staff</title>
          <page.no>46</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Members of Parliament: Staff</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>46</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Ruston, Sen Anne</name>
              <name.id>243273</name.id>
              <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
              <party>LP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="243273" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator RUSTON</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:00</span>):  My question is to the Minister representing the Prime Minister, Senator Wong. Mr Rhys Muldoon, who was sacked as a Labor staffer yesterday for a series of vile social media posts using racist language and sexualised language against conservative women, is a close friend of the Prime Minister, Mr Albanese. He even attended Mr Albanese's wedding at the Lodge last year. Mr Muldoon was handed a taxpayer funded job with Labor senator Richard Dowling. Senator Dowling was very enthusiastic about this arrangement, saying: </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">He understands politics instinctively, writes brilliantly, thinks differently to me and isn't afraid to say it. That's exactly why I wanted to work with him.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Minister, can you confirm whether Prime Minister Albanese had any involvement in Mr Muldoon obtaining his job with Senator Dowling?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>46</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Wong, Sen Penny</name>
              <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
              <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="00AOU" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator WONG</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for Foreign Affairs and Leader of the Government in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:01</span>):  First, may I acknowledge and warmly welcome the First Nations students participating in the WEX program who are here today in the gallery—particularly those from South Australia! Welcome to all of you, but particularly those from SA!</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Senator Ruston, can I say, first in relation to the comments you've referenced, that they are completely unacceptable. I say that today, and I understand that the Prime Minister has made that clear. In relation to Mr Muldoon's employment, Senator Dowling has taken immediate action, as is appropriate.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Senator Ruston, first supplementary.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>46</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </answer>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>46</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Ruston, Sen Anne</name>
              <name.id>243273</name.id>
              <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
              <party>LP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="243273" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator RUSTON</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:02</span>):  The Albanese government appointed Mr Muldoon as an Australia Day Ambassador in 2024, despite the series of vile tweets that were already available for people to see at that time. Did the Prime Minister personally advocate for or personally approve Mr Muldoon's position as an Australia Day Ambassador?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>46</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Wong, Sen Penny</name>
              <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
              <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="00AOU" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator WONG</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for Foreign Affairs and Leader of the Government in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:02</span>):  My advice is that in fact Mr Muldoon was an Australia Day Ambassador since 2014, when obviously you were in government. It is clearly not appropriate for him to be an ambassador. He was not an ambassador this year, and I understand that the assistant minister has taken action today, so he will not be again.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Senator Ruston, second supplementary.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>46</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </answer>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>46</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Ruston, Sen Anne</name>
              <name.id>243273</name.id>
              <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
              <party>LP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="243273" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator RUSTON</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:02</span>):  Given Mr Muldoon's close personal connection to the Prime Minister, does the government seriously expect Australians to believe that the Prime Minister was unaware of Mr Muldoon's vile views, which have been published online over many years?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>46</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Wong, Sen Penny</name>
              <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
              <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="00AOU" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator WONG</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for Foreign Affairs and Leader of the Government in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:03</span>):  What I would say to you, Senator, is that those comments are not acceptable, and the Prime Minister has made that clear.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </answer>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>DISTINGUISHED VISITORS</title>
        <page.no>46</page.no>
        <type>DISTINGUISHED VISITORS</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <debate.text>
        <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
          <p class="HPS-Debate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Debate">DISTINGUISHED VISITORS</span>
          </p>
        </body>
      </debate.text>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Work Exposure in Government (WEX) Program</title>
          <page.no>46</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Work Exposure in Government (WEX) Program</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>46</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
              <name.id>112096</name.id>
              <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">The PRESIDENT</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Time">14:03</span>):  I draw to the attention of the gallery once again the rest of the WEX group, who've joined us here. I had understood that some of the students were in the Speaker's gallery and some here, but it looks like we might have them all. So welcome to all students.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE</title>
        <page.no>47</page.no>
        <type>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <debate.text>
        <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
          <p class="HPS-Debate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Debate">QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE</span>
          </p>
        </body>
      </debate.text>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Fuel Security</title>
          <page.no>47</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Fuel Security</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>47</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Polley, Sen Helen</name>
              <name.id>e5x</name.id>
              <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="e5x" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator POLLEY</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Tasmania</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:03</span>):  My question is to the Minister for Industry and Innovation, Senator Ayres. The Albanese Labor government recently announced its plan for a domestic gas reservation. This plan ensures that Australian gas is used to the benefit of Australian households, Australian industry and Australian manufacturing firms first. Minister, how will the government's landmark reform help deliver more affordable gas for Australians and support a long-term future for Australian industry?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>47</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Ayres, Sen Tim</name>
              <name.id>16913</name.id>
              <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="16913" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator AYRES</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for Industry and Innovation and Minister for Science</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:04</span>):  Thank you to Senator Polley for that question. The Albanese government's gas reservation plan will reserve Australian gas for Australians and for Australian industry. It will make Australia stronger. Australia is already an energy superpower, and the gas reservation plan supercharges that potential in particular for Australian industry and Australian heavy industry. This gas reservation delivers Australia's energy transition and it sets us up for generations of prosperity, particularly in regional Australia.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">This Labor government looks to the future. We know that you can't be for manufacturing and blue-collar jobs if you are against reserving Australian gas for Australians. You can't be for manufacturing and blue-collar jobs if you are obsessed with shutting down the cheapest form of energy. You can't build a future for industries like Whyalla steel if you are frightened of the future yourselves and if you tell deliberate falsehoods about what happened at the Whyalla blast furnace. You can't build a future for Whyalla by looking to the past and being a Tony Abbott tribute band. Tony Abbott was the man who chased the car industry out of Australia all for knights and dames—plus five knights and dames and minus 40,000 blue-collar jobs in the Australian automotive industry.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Now we've got poor old Mr Taylor, the former cost-cutting consultant whose advice to the Australian aluminium industry was, 'Go to China.' Angus Taylor's advice was to go to China. <span style="font-style:italic;">(Time expired)</span></span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Senator Polley, first supplementary?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>47</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </answer>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>47</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Polley, Sen Helen</name>
              <name.id>e5x</name.id>
              <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="e5x" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator POLLEY</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Tasmania</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:06</span>):  It's clear that the Albanese Labor government's priority is a gas and industrial policy that delivers for Australians and Australian industry. Minister, why has the government chosen this approach and made it a priority to put the interests of Australian households and Australians industries first?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>47</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Ayres, Sen Tim</name>
              <name.id>16913</name.id>
              <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="16913" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator AYRES</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for Industry and Innovation and Minister for Science</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:06</span>):  Let me make it clear that, under the Albanese Labor government, under our Future Made in Australia plan, industry policy is squarely back. We will never apologise for putting Australians first and Australians' jobs first. We will deliver this landmark reform on gas reservation to make Australia stronger.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">The real question is: who will stand with the Albanese government and Australian manufacturing to deliver this reform? Will Angus Taylor stand up for Australia's interests by voting to reserve Australian gas for Australians? Will he support manufacturing and blue-collar jobs in our regions? Will the Greens? Will One Nation? This is a choice for the parliament. Will you stand around admiring problems or are you for solutions that will make Australian industry stronger? You can't be for manufacturing and against gas reservations. <span style="font-style:italic;">(Time expired)</span></span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Minister Ayres, I remind you to refer to those in the other place by their correct titles. Senator Polley, second supplementary?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>47</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </answer>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>47</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Polley, Sen Helen</name>
              <name.id>e5x</name.id>
              <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="e5x" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator POLLEY</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Tasmania</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:08</span>):  Just a few months ago, a senator gave a speech in this place where they said:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">A domestic gas reserve will increase the supply of gas and lower the price of electricity …</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Minister, is this an accurate description of what the Albanese Labor government's policy will achieve?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>47</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Ayres, Sen Tim</name>
              <name.id>16913</name.id>
              <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="16913" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator AYRES</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for Industry and Innovation and Minister for Science</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:08</span>):  This is an accurate description of what the government's policy will achieve. It is. A domestic gas reservation will increase the supply of gas and lower the price of electricity and gas. Senator Hanson was dead right. I had assumed that Senator Hanson would be voting for that proposition, except I understand—</span>
              </p>
              <a href="I0M" type="GeneralIInterjecting">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span class="HPS-GeneralIInterjecting">Senator Cash interjecting</span>—</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="16913" type="MemberContinuation">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator AYRES:</span>
                  </a>  Well, who knows where she is? I understand from reading the paper today that she's changed her position. Does anyone have a theory about what might have caused Senator Hanson to change her position? You can't claim to be a battler if you are bankrolled by billionaires. You can't be for a gas reservation and then suddenly against it because your financial backers hate it. You can't claim to be an Australian patriot for blue-collar workers if you're against Australian manufacturing and you're against a gas reservation that will deliver Australian gas for Australian industry. <span style="font-style:italic;">(Time expired)</span></span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>47</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Senator Cash interjecting—</name>
                <name.id />
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>47</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Ayres, Sen Tim</name>
                <name.id>16913</name.id>
                <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </continue>
        </answer>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Gender and Sexual Orientation</title>
          <page.no>48</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Gender and Sexual Orientation</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>48</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Cash, Sen Michaelia</name>
              <name.id>I0M</name.id>
              <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
              <party>LP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="I0M" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator CASH</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Western Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Leader of the Opposition in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:09</span>):  My question is to the Minister representing the Prime Minister, Senator Wong. The High Court has refused special leave in the Tickle v Giggle case, leaving in place the ruling against a women-only networking app and confirming that the problem is with the law. The coalition has now twice sought to have the Senate deal with legislation to restore common sense to the Sex Discrimination Act, recognise biological sex and protect the rights of women and girls. Twice Labor has now said no. Why does Prime Minister Albanese continue to oppose legislation that would protect the rights of biological women and girls in female-only spaces, including change rooms, bathrooms, sporting competitions and domestic violence refuges?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>48</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Wong, Sen Penny</name>
              <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
              <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="00AOU" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator WONG</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for Foreign Affairs and Leader of the Government in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:10</span>):  First, I would make the point that, when it comes to these issues, I thought former senator Marise Payne expressed a view that was very sensible, very centrist and, I think, very ethical. She said:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">… in public life, we do have to be very careful about the way we express our opinions. Most importantly, we have to exercise sensitivity and respect.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">And that is a key word, respect. Our view is that all people are entitled to respect, dignity and the opportunity to participate in society free from discrimination. We are a government that has put women's equality at the heart of everything we do, supported by equal representation in our caucus and around the cabinet table. I would say to you, Senator, I think people do understand what it is you are trying to do—</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="I0M" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Cash:</span>
                  </a>  Yes, protect the rights of women and girls—</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="00AOU" type="MemberContinuation">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator WONG:</span>
                  </a>  I will take that interjection about protecting the rights of women and girls. I'd welcome, for example, you condemning some of the comments made—I think, just in the last 24 hours—around consent in marriage, and that you don't need consent in marriage. I'd welcome that. I'd welcome you actually backing in some of the work we do in developing countries in relation to the rights of women and girls. I'd welcome you, on the International Day of the Girl Child on 11 October, standing up and giving bipartisan support to development assistance so we can actually work to prevent child marriage and to provide girls with education. Then I might take you seriously, and we might take you seriously, and women and girls around this country might take you seriously when it comes to issues of equality and respect. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Senator Cash, first supplementary. I remind you that, when I ask you to come to order, to come to order. I had to call you several times.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>48</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Cash, Sen Michaelia</name>
                <name.id>I0M</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>48</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Wong, Sen Penny</name>
                <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
                <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>48</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </answer>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>48</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Cash, Sen Michaelia</name>
              <name.id>I0M</name.id>
              <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
              <party>LP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="I0M" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator CASH</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Western Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Leader of the Opposition in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:12</span>):  Minister, this is no longer an accident or an oversight. Women have been fighting this issue through the courts and the Human Rights Commission for more than three years. The Prime Minister has now had two opportunities in this parliament to support protections for biological women and girls. Twice Labor has refused. Why doesn't Prime Minister Albanese care about the privacy, dignity and safety of biological women and girls- in women-only spaces, including change rooms, bathrooms, sport and domestic violence refuges?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>48</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Wong, Sen Penny</name>
              <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
              <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="00AOU" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator WONG</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for Foreign Affairs and Leader of the Government in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:13</span>):  This prime minister has brought women's safety and equality for women to the heart of government's policy. You can see that from the work we have done, whether it is the National Plan to End Violence against Women and Girls, or it is in terms of the economic agenda and the extent to which there has been a focus on how we address the gender pay gap. This is a prime minister and a government that has—</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="I0M" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Cash:</span>
                  </a>  It doesn't matter.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="00AOU" type="MemberContinuation">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator WONG:</span>
                  </a>  I'll take the interjection. Here we go again! I'll take the interjection from the Leader of the Opposition. When we talk about the gender pay gap, she says, 'It doesn't matter.' It doesn't matter because, on that side of the table, they don't think that actually giving working women equality when it comes to pay and conditions is important. It says everything about their priority. You know, your priority is always division. It is never equality. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Senator Cash, second supplementary.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>48</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Cash, Sen Michaelia</name>
                <name.id>I0M</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>48</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Wong, Sen Penny</name>
                <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
                <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>48</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </answer>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>48</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Cash, Sen Michaelia</name>
              <name.id>I0M</name.id>
              <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
              <party>LP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="I0M" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator CASH</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Western Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Leader of the Opposition in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:14</span>):  Minister, Australians now know exactly where the Prime Minister stands. Women have spent years fighting for their sex based rights. Twice the Prime Minister has been given the opportunity to recognise biological sex and support those sex based right protections. Twice he has said no. Why should Australian women and girls trust a prime minister who repeatedly refuses to support their sex based rights? </span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>48</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Wong, Sen Penny</name>
              <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
              <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="00AOU" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator WONG</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for Foreign Affairs and Leader of the Government in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:14</span>):  The Senator talks about what is clear, and I think we know what is clear. It is clear that on this side we have a government, a prime minister, a cabinet and a Minister for Women that are leading reforms about improving equality and equity in this country. It's a government that is about improving the wages, conditions and the economic position of women, a government that is about trying to combat family and domestic violence, a government which is investing in more housing and accommodation for women and children fleeing family violence. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span class="HPS-GeneralIInterjecting">Honourable senators interjecting</span>—</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="00AOU" type="MemberContinuation">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator WONG:</span>
                  </a>  It doesn't matter how much you interrupt me—the reality is you are never for equality when it comes to women. Do you know what you are for? You are for a stunt which is nothing more than division, and everybody can see that, because this is not about this is not about delivering change that improves the lives of women and girls— <span style="font-style:italic;">(Time expired)</span></span>
              </p>
              <a href="I0M" type="GeneralIInterjecting">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span class="HPS-GeneralIInterjecting">Senator Cash interjecting</span>—</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Senator Cash! We have finished that question.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>49</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Wong, Sen Penny</name>
                <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
                <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>49</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Senator Cash interjecting—</name>
                <name.id />
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>49</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </answer>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Migration</title>
          <page.no>49</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Migration</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>49</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Shoebridge, Sen David</name>
              <name.id>169119</name.id>
              <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
              <party>AG</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="169119" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator SHOEBRIDGE</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:16</span>):  My question is to the minister representing the Minister for Home Affairs. Minister, since your government came in, you've worked with Peter Dutton to forcibly remove people under a corrupt deal to Nauru and then, this year, to get a Trump like power to ban travel from countries. You are now preparing a package of migration changes as part of a race to the bottom on immigration with One Nation's Pauline Hanson, of all people. Why is it, when there's a choice between supporting multicultural Australia and the nasty, mean Right, you keep choosing the mean and nasty Right?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>49</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Watt, Sen Murray</name>
              <name.id>245759</name.id>
              <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="245759" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator WATT</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for the Environment and Water</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:16</span>):  What a pathetic question. What a pathetic attempt from the Greens political party to try yet again to get their social media hits by making completely inaccurate claims. The suggestion that this government is copying One Nation policies on any matter is so ludicrous. Senator Shoebridge, I remember it was last week that some of your senators voted with One Nation to stop protection of native forests, so if you want to talk about people voting with One Nation or copying One Nation ideas, have a look in your own party room.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Minister, please resume your seat. Senator Shoebridge?</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="169119" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Shoebridge:</span>
                  </a>  A point of order on relevance. You know it's not relevant. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Thank you, Senator Shoebridge, I will draw the minister back to the question. Minister Watt, please continue.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="245759" type="MemberContinuation">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator WATT:</span>
                  </a>  What this government is doing in our migration policy settings is dealing with the reality that, post-COVID and post the former coalition government, we had a migration system that was completely broken, that was being rorted and that was reaching unsustainable numbers. Now, if the Greens political party believe that continuing to have net overseas migration figures of more than half a million a year is a sustainable migration policy then they're on their own. It wasn't. It's not sustainable from a population point of view. It's certainly not sustainable from an environmental point of view to have those kind of numbers every year. That's why we've taken action. We've taken action in a calm, considered and non-divisive way, which is very different to what we've seen from other parties here. What we've done at the same time is ensure that we manage the economic factors arising from our migration policy. We have taken this action without demonising any group within the community, and that's exactly the way we intend to take it from here. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Senator Shoebridge first supplementary?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>49</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>49</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Shoebridge, Sen David</name>
                <name.id>169119</name.id>
                <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                <party>AG</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>49</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>49</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Watt, Sen Murray</name>
                <name.id>245759</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>49</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </answer>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>49</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Shoebridge, Sen David</name>
              <name.id>169119</name.id>
              <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
              <party>AG</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="169119" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator SHOEBRIDGE</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:18</span>):  No-one believes that. Temporary visas have drastically increased, in part due to massive delays in processing substantive visas under your government, while at the same time your government has overseen an unprecedented slowdown in permanent family visa processing. Do you want migration to help build an inclusive Australia and a place for families, or one just to treat migrants as economic levers you turn on and turn off?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>49</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Watt, Sen Murray</name>
              <name.id>245759</name.id>
              <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="245759" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator WATT</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for the Environment and Water</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:19</span>):  Senator Shoebridge, I'm not going to take the bait. We are going to put in place a migration policy that is calm, that is considered, that puts the national interest first, and that recognises the needs of families for reunion and for reunification at sustainable levels, while ensuring that we can fill the workforce needs of this country. We're not interested—in fact, I think we're the only party in this chamber that isn't interested in using migration as a political football. We know that the Liberals, Nationals and One Nation want to use migration as a political football to divide the Australian community and, particularly, to isolate migrants.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="169119" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Shoebridge:</span>
                  </a>  On a point of order on relevance, my question was about their failure to fund the processing that caused them—</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Thank you, Senator Shoebridge.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="169119" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Shoebridge:</span>
                  </a>  I know he's embarrassed by it, but, if you could, just answer the question.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Senator Shoebridge, resume your seat. I have reminded you before that it's not an opportunity to stand and make a point of order and follow it up with a statement. The minister is being relevant, and I'll continue listening carefully.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="245759" type="MemberContinuation">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator WATT:</span>
                  </a>  As I say, we're not going to use migration as a political football. We're not going to use it, as the Greens political party do—to use migration as a political football as well. We know that the Greens political party is only interested in stunts. They're never interested in solutions, and we're not going to follow that approach when it comes to migration policy.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Senator Shoebridge, second supplementary?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>49</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Shoebridge, Sen David</name>
                <name.id>169119</name.id>
                <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                <party>AG</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>49</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>50</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Shoebridge, Sen David</name>
                <name.id>169119</name.id>
                <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                <party>AG</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>50</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>50</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Watt, Sen Murray</name>
                <name.id>245759</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>50</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </answer>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>50</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Shoebridge, Sen David</name>
              <name.id>169119</name.id>
              <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
              <party>AG</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="169119" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator SHOEBRIDGE</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:20</span>):  Again, no-one believes you. Minister, real wages have fallen. People cannot afford rent. Mortgages are impossible. People have record debt. Will your government take responsibility for failing to address the material needs of people, which has allowed the space for the far right and then Labor to scapegoat migrants for your failures?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>50</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Watt, Sen Murray</name>
              <name.id>245759</name.id>
              <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="245759" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator WATT</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for the Environment and Water</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:21</span>):  All Australians remember that it was the Greens political party who teamed up with One Nation and the coalition to block the provision of more public housing. I'll tell you who knows that more than anyone. Mr Max Chandler-Mather knows that it was the Greens political party who stopped housing being built. Stephen Bates, the former member for Brisbane—he knows that it was the Greens political party, and a bloke called Adam Bandt certainly knows that it was the Greens political party who got in the way of public housing being built. That's why they are no longer members of this parliament. For the Greens to come in and, all of a sudden, cry about the needs of renters or cry about the needs of mortgage holders or cry about the housing situation that Australia finds itself in shows an even more staggering lack of self-awareness than we are used to from Senator Shoebridge.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </answer>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Cybersafety</title>
          <page.no>50</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Cybersafety</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>50</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">O'Neill, Sen Deborah</name>
              <name.id>140651</name.id>
              <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="140651" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator O'NEILL</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:22</span>):  My question is to the Minister representing the Minister for Communications, Senator Farrell. Australia's been leading the world in our efforts to keep children safer online, starting with our social media minimum age law, which has seen more than five million under-16s' accounts removed and deactivated and has inspired more than 20 other countries to follow suit. How has the Albanese Labor government further strengthened our laws to ensure we can hold social media companies to account, and what are the next steps in keeping our children safe online?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>50</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Farrell, Sen Don</name>
              <name.id>I0N</name.id>
              <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="I0N" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator FARRELL</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for Trade and Tourism, Special Minister of State and Deputy Leader of the Government in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:22</span>):  I thank Senator O'Neill for her question and for the great work that she does for the people of New South Wales. Can I say that the Albanese government is leaving no stone unturned when it comes to holding big tech to account. Our world-leading social media minimum age laws sparked a global movement, and, while we are seeing the green shoots of this generational reform, it's abundantly clear that social media companies are doing the bare minimum to comply with this new law.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">That's why the government acted fast to strengthen the investigative powers of the eSafety Commissioner and doubled the fines for the breach to $109.2 million. These changes mean that the eSafety Commissioner can demand information and documents from social media companies and third parties, such as age assurance technology providers. They also give eSafety the power to summon former employees or executives from social media companies to give evidence. What this means is that social media companies will have to prove to the regulator that they are doing what they say they are doing to keep under-16s offline. The message from the Albanese government to social media companies could not be clearer—if you want to do business on our shores, you must follow Australian laws or face significant penalties.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Of course, online harm extends beyond social media to other spaces children inhabit. That's why the Albanese government is legislating a digital duty of care, which will put the onus on big tech to prevent harms before they occur across all online services.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Senator O'Neill, first supplementary?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>50</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </answer>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>50</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">O'Neill, Sen Deborah</name>
              <name.id>140651</name.id>
              <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="140651" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator O'NEILL</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:24</span>):  Thank you, Minister. I'm sure everybody who cares about kids will appreciate that response. The Special Envoy to Combat Antisemitism, Jillian Segal, in the report on combating online antisemitism in Australia, has called on parliament to pass the digital duty of care amid concerns that children are being served antisemitic content. How does the Albanese Labor government's digital duty of care protect children from harmful content in online spaces?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>50</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Farrell, Sen Don</name>
              <name.id>I0N</name.id>
              <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="I0N" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator FARRELL</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for Trade and Tourism, Special Minister of State and Deputy Leader of the Government in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:25</span>):  I thank Senator O'Neill for her first supplementary question. Parents across Australia are worried about what their children are seeing and who they are talking to online, be that on online gaming platforms, when talking to AI chatbots or through messaging platforms. The special envoy joins the many community organisations and public figures who support the digital duty of care, noting that it will make it harder for algorithmic recommended systems to serve antisemitic content to children.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">The Albanese government's digital duty of care will require tech companies to examine how their tools and features, including algorithms and across games and chatbots, amplify extremist content, because we can all agree that— <span style="font-style:italic;">(Time expired)</span></span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Senator O'Neill, second supplementary?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>51</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </answer>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>51</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">O'Neill, Sen Deborah</name>
              <name.id>140651</name.id>
              <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="140651" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator O'NEILL</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:26</span>):  A recent emerging harm is a technology that gave people the ability to create AI generated nude images of people, including children, and then share them online. How's the Albanese Labor government responding to this new harm, and how will the digital duty of care protect Australians, especially children and young people, against these sorts of apps and websites?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>51</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Farrell, Sen Don</name>
              <name.id>I0N</name.id>
              <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="I0N" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator FARRELL</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for Trade and Tourism, Special Minister of State and Deputy Leader of the Government in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:27</span>):  I thank Senator O'Neill for her second supplementary question. These apps and websites are abhorrent and have no place in our community. The eSafety Commissioner's enforcement action under the existing Online Safety Act has already led to eight of the most popular services in Australia either withdrawing their services from our country or putting in place age assurance to prevent children accessing these services.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">The Albanese government's digital duty of care will now go further, providing new powers to allow the eSafety Commissioner to issue take-down notices for apps or websites predominantly designed or used to generate fake nude material. This will provide eSafety with an efficient, targeted mechanism to restrict access to these services and to rid Australia of these horrendous apps.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </answer>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Indigenous Australians</title>
          <page.no>51</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Indigenous Australians</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>51</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Thorpe, Sen Lidia</name>
              <name.id>280304</name.id>
              <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
              <party>IND</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="280304" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator THORPE</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Victoria</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Independent VIC Whip</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:28</span>):  My question is to the Minister representing the Prime Minister, Minister Wong. Does your government agree that a genocide has occurred on this continent?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>51</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Wong, Sen Penny</name>
              <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
              <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="00AOU" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator WONG</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for Foreign Affairs and Leader of the Government in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:28</span>):  I understand that that is a word that is used as a political point. There's also a legal definition. And I would say to you—</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span class="HPS-GeneralIInterjecting">An honourable senator interjecting</span>—</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="00AOU" type="MemberContinuation">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator WONG:</span>
                  </a>  Sorry? No, what I was going to say is I think different senators, including in our party, would have used different words, but what I would say to you is I think the history of First Nations people in this country is a history that involves not only hardship but also brutality and death and murders and dispossession. And I am very aware of that. I appreciate the point you're making, but I don't want the definitional argument to suggest in any way that my view or the government's views detract from that.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Senator Thorpe, first supplementary?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>51</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Wong, Sen Penny</name>
                <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
                <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>51</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </answer>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>51</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Thorpe, Sen Lidia</name>
              <name.id>280304</name.id>
              <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
              <party>IND</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="280304" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator THORPE</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Victoria</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Independent VIC Whip</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:29</span>):  New groundbreaking, peer reviewed research published in the <span style="font-style:italic;">Nature</span> journal yesterday shows 2.2 million First Peoples lived on this continent before invasion—2.2 million, not 250,000 as previously thought. Over two million people were wiped out in the first years of invasion. What would you call wiping out up to two million people if not genocide? <span style="font-style:italic;">(Time expired)</span></span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>51</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Wong, Sen Penny</name>
              <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
              <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="00AOU" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator WONG</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for Foreign Affairs and Leader of the Government in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:30</span>):  I'm grateful to my colleagues who have provided me with some additional information in particular in relation to the Yoorrook Justice Commission finding. What I would again say to you is this. Firstly, we know that Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples have lived and thrived for over 60,000 years. It is important that we as a country know and understand what has happened in Australia, including history that has not been spoken of and history which has not been taught. Part of that history is the painful truths, some of which you have alluded to, that there was, as I said, brutality, killing and dispossession. I am one that does believe that we should talk about that and understand that more— <span style="font-style:italic;">(Time expired)</span></span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Senator Thorpe, second supplementary?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>51</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </answer>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>51</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Thorpe, Sen Lidia</name>
              <name.id>280304</name.id>
              <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
              <party>IND</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="280304" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator THORPE</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Victoria</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Independent VIC Whip</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:31</span>):  Have you have you or any former federal government ever investigated whether a genocide has occurred on this continent?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>51</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Wong, Sen Penny</name>
              <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
              <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="00AOU" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator WONG</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for Foreign Affairs and Leader of the Government in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:31</span>):  What I am saying to you—and this is what the government's view is—is that we should have more telling of the truth of our history. Different people will have different words to describe that, but we should have more truth-telling. You ask this question of me in a week when great disrespect has been shown to First Nations people. If we as a country understood better our history, as painful as it is, then it might be that there would be more respect and understanding shown to our First Nations people.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </answer>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Whyalla Steelworks</title>
          <page.no>52</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Whyalla Steelworks</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>52</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Canavan, Sen Matthew</name>
              <name.id>245212</name.id>
              <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
              <party>NATS</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="245212" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator CANAVAN</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Leader of the Nationals</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:32</span>):  My question is to the Minister representing the Prime Minister, Senator Wong. In September 2023, the Prime Minister said that Whyalla had 'an extraordinarily optimistic future' producing green steel and that wind and solar would help create green hydrogen for advanced manufacturing. He went on to say that Labor's plans would position the steelworks to succeed 'for decades to come'. Then on 20 March this year, again at the Whyalla Steelworks, the Prime Minister doubled down, saying the Labor government had saved the jobs of the Whyalla Steelworks and it was having record steelmaking. But on Monday, of course, it was announced that the blast furnace, very sadly, is being permanently closed. The only steelworks in Australia—</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="16913" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Ayres:</span>
                  </a>  You are a fraud. You are a total fraud.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Senator Ayres, come to order!</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="263528" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Nampijinpa Price:</span>
                  </a>  You need to withdraw that.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="245212" type="MemberContinuation">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator CANAVAN:</span>
                  </a>  I didn't hear him. I don't care.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span class="HPS-GeneralIInterjecting">Opposition senators interjecting</span>—</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Come to order! I'm very sorry, Senator Canavan. Please resume your seat. I'll come back to you. I did not need all of those interjections. I intended to ask Minister Ayres to withdraw, but I was being courteous to Senator Canavan and allowing him to finish his question. But the interjections, particularly on my left, meant I couldn't do that. I apologise to Senator Canavan. Senator Ayres, you will withdraw those comments.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="16913" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Ayres:</span>
                  </a>  I withdraw.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Senator Canavan, please continue.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="245212" type="MemberContinuation">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator CANAVAN:</span>
                  </a>  Unlike Senator Ayres, I'm interested in this. It's the only steelworks in Australia that can produce hot rolled structural steel and rail from scratch.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="16913" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Ayres:</span>
                  </a>  You should go there. You've never been there.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="245212" type="MemberContinuation">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator CANAVAN:</span>
                  </a>  I've been there twice, thank you very much. How can Labor claim its net zero policies are creating more secure manufacturing jobs when 500 workers will lose their jobs, our sovereign capacity is now at risk and we'll be even more reliant on imports?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>52</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Ayres, Sen Tim</name>
                <name.id>16913</name.id>
                <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>52</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>52</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Nampijinpa Price, Sen Jacinta</name>
                <name.id>263528</name.id>
                <electorate>Northern Territory</electorate>
                <party>CLP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>52</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Canavan, Sen Matthew</name>
                <name.id>245212</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>NATS</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>52</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>52</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Ayres, Sen Tim</name>
                <name.id>16913</name.id>
                <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>52</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>52</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Canavan, Sen Matthew</name>
                <name.id>245212</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>NATS</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>52</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Ayres, Sen Tim</name>
                <name.id>16913</name.id>
                <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>52</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Canavan, Sen Matthew</name>
                <name.id>245212</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>NATS</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </continue>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>52</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Wong, Sen Penny</name>
              <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
              <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="00AOU" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator WONG</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for Foreign Affairs and Leader of the Government in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:34</span>):  Senator Canavan, I may not have been able to hear the entirety of your question, but I do get the gist of it, and I will seek to respond to it. I think the only part that I properly agree with is that this is a critical national capability, and it is, which is why the government is working with the South Australian government, with the workers, with the unions and with the community to ensure that Whyalla has a future.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">I would also say to you that, like the community and the workers at Whyalla, we are angry at the years of underinvestment that have seen Whyalla be run into the ground. The blast furnace that you speak of has been in a perilous state of decay for a very, very long time, and hundreds of engineering and safety failures have been well documented over many years. Unlike you, we don't think that the coalition and others should be running interference for a British billionaire whose decisions have driven—</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span class="HPS-GeneralIInterjecting">Opposition senators interjecting</span>—</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="00AOU" type="MemberContinuation">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator WONG:</span>
                  </a>  This is exactly what you are doing. They pretend to be on the side of workers, colleagues, but actually they're running interference for a British billionaire whose entity engaged in underinvestment and poor administration, which has left the blast furnace in a state of decay and, importantly, left workers and the community where they are now. That is the truth of it. Frankly, it is only because of the efforts of the state and federal Labor governments and the effort of workers at Whyalla that the blast furnace has survived this long. That is the truth.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Senator Canavan, first supplementary?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>52</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Wong, Sen Penny</name>
                <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
                <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>52</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </answer>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>52</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Canavan, Sen Matthew</name>
              <name.id>245212</name.id>
              <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
              <party>NATS</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="245212" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator CANAVAN</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Leader of the Nationals</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:36</span>):  I'm not going to cop lectures from the other side. Last time I went to Whyalla, we signed a deal for the steelworks to supply both steel and rail lines for the Adani Carmichael coal mine, which were delivered. They actually got delivered and helped save jobs for a change.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span class="HPS-GeneralIInterjecting">Government senators interjecting</span>—</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="245212" type="MemberContinuation">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator CANAVAN:</span>
                  </a>  Oh, they don't like that.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="00AOU" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Wong:</span>
                  </a>  On a point of order—I was actually also going to do it for Senator Shoebridge, who's now left the chamber, but I try to be ecumenical about the points of orders that I make where I can. Some people laughed! Standing order 73 is very clear about the rules relating to questions, and neither the comments by Senator Shoebridge nor the comments by Senator Canavan are compliant with standing order 73.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="245212" type="MemberContinuation">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator CANAVAN:</span>
                  </a>  On the point of order, there are also points of order on relevance here, Madam President. My questions went to statements from the Prime Minister. Instead, this minister won't even be honest with the people of Whyalla, and she tries to deflect onto another person from another country. How about being accountable to the workers in Whyalla or your own—</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Senator Canavan, take your seat! Minister Wong quoted standing order 73. Senator Canavan, I'm going to ask you to restate the question in the terms outlined in standing order 73.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="245212" type="MemberContinuation">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator CANAVAN:</span>
                  </a>  It's a very simple question. Will the government's plans now mean that Australia will not be able to make structural steel, which holds up buildings, rail lines and bridges, from scratch? As well as being the world's largest exporter of coking coal and iron ore, will we still be able to make structural steel from scratch?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>52</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Canavan, Sen Matthew</name>
                <name.id>245212</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>NATS</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>53</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Wong, Sen Penny</name>
                <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
                <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>53</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Canavan, Sen Matthew</name>
                <name.id>245212</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>NATS</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>53</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>53</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Canavan, Sen Matthew</name>
                <name.id>245212</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>NATS</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </continue>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>53</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Wong, Sen Penny</name>
              <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
              <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="00AOU" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator WONG</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for Foreign Affairs and Leader of the Government in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:39</span>):  First, we are determined to ensure there remains a future for Whyalla. Senator Ayres was trying to explain to me which parts are still operating. Despite the blast furnace not operating, I understand that production continues in some parts of the enterprise, which goes to your point. Senator Canavan—and on this we do agree—steelmaking is a national—</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="207825" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator McKenzie:</span>
                  </a>  You need a furnace to make steel. That's like year 10 chemistry.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="00AOU" type="MemberContinuation">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator WONG:</span>
                  </a>  Senator McKenzie, I'm trying to answer your colleague's question.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="207825" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator McKenzie:</span>
                  </a>  No, you're not.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="00AOU" type="MemberContinuation">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator WONG:</span>
                  </a>  Alright. Fine. What I was trying to say to Senator Canavan is that I do agree with him. We do agree with you that steelmaking is a critical national capability, and the Prime Minister has been very clear about that, which is why we have been so focused on ensuring we do all we can, put our shoulder to the wheel, to enable that capability to stay in Australia, just as we worked so hard at Tomago to ensure that that aluminium capacity also stayed in Australia. If I may say so— <span style="font-style:italic;">(Time expired)</span></span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Senator Canavan, second supplementary.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>53</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">McKenzie, Sen Bridget</name>
                <name.id>207825</name.id>
                <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
                <party>NATS</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>53</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Wong, Sen Penny</name>
                <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
                <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>53</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">McKenzie, Sen Bridget</name>
                <name.id>207825</name.id>
                <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
                <party>NATS</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>53</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Wong, Sen Penny</name>
                <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
                <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>53</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </answer>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>53</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Canavan, Sen Matthew</name>
              <name.id>245212</name.id>
              <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
              <party>NATS</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="245212" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator CANAVAN</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Leader of the Nationals</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:40</span>):  Minister, your government keeps telling us that renewables are the cheapest form of power, yet, even after providing $2.4 billion to the Whyalla steelworks, that's still closing because of sky-high electricity prices. When will Labor abandon its net zero fantasy and use all of Australia's energy resources, including coal, gas, uranium and renewables, to deliver cheap and reliable power?</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span class="HPS-GeneralIInterjecting">Honourable senators interjecting</span>—</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  No, I'm not calling Minister Wong at the moment. Senator Canavan had the right to have his question heard in silence. I called for order a number of times, and I was completely ignored.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>53</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>53</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Wong, Sen Penny</name>
              <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
              <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="00AOU" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator WONG</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for Foreign Affairs and Leader of the Government in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:41</span>):  My recollection is it is a coal-fired blast furnace. What I'm saying to you is that the underinvestment by Mr Gupta and GFG Alliance has left Whyalla where it is, and it would be useful, instead of using this to try and pursue a political culture war, which is what you are doing, to perhaps look at the facts. You are running interference for a British billionaire, and it does not help the workers. I'd make this point—</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span class="HPS-GeneralIInterjecting">Honourable senators interjecting</span>—</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Minister Wong, please resume your seat. Senator Canavan, I've called you at least three or four times, and I've also called you, Senator Ayres. If you can't listen in silence, leave the chamber, because you are being disrespectful and discourteous to me.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="00AOU" type="MemberContinuation">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator WONG:</span>
                  </a>  Remember that Tomago could not get coal fired power at a price where it was able to keep the facility open. I know that's an inconvenient fact for you. I know it's an inconvenient fact that the way to save Tomago was to go with renewables and gas, but that is the truth. The problem is for you, Senator Canavan, that the facts get in the way of your culture wars. <span style="font-style:italic;">(Time expired)</span></span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>53</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>53</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Wong, Sen Penny</name>
                <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
                <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </continue>
        </answer>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>United Nations Climate Change Conference</title>
          <page.no>53</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">United Nations Climate Change Conference</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>53</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Payman, Sen Fatima</name>
              <name.id>300707</name.id>
              <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
              <party>AV</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="300707" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator PAYMAN</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Western Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Australia's Voice Whip</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:42</span>):  My question is to the Minister representing the Minister for Climate Change and Energy, Senator Ayres. I met with ActionAid advocates this morning, who raised some serious concerns. With every degree of global warming, women around the world pay the heaviest price, losing livelihoods as droughts and floods destroy crops, facing greater food insecurity and experiencing high rates of domestic violence in the wake of climate driven disasters. Australia is set to preside over the COP31 negotiations at this critical moment, yet modelling shows that we're tracking to just 53 per cent renewables by 2030, nearly 30 per cent short of the government's own target, raising questions about our credibility to lead. Minister, what commitments will the government put forward to ensure climate action and women's welfare are treated as inherently connected throughout Australia's presidency?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>54</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Ayres, Sen Tim</name>
              <name.id>16913</name.id>
              <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="16913" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator AYRES</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for Industry and Innovation and Minister for Science</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:43</span>):  Thank you to Senator Payman for that question. It is true that climate change and the impact of climate change is particularly bad for our region and for Australia, and it does have and will have a disproportionate effect in our region. Beyond the impacts on Australia, where our climate is more vulnerable and our agriculture is more vulnerable, it will have impacts throughout the broader region, beyond the Pacific, that particularly are felt by lower income households and by families, and, as you pointed out in your question, inevitably that means a disproportionate effect on women in the region.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Particularly for Australia, that impact in the Pacific, in those countries that are our neighbours, and in our region, not only is inextricably linked with welfare, social equity and environmental concerns but also goes fundamentally to our security and the security of our region. I think that point has been misunderstood—or wilfully misunderstood—by the Liberals, the Nationals and One Nation, who refuse to grapple with the challenge this presents not just for Australia but for our security and the security of the peoples of our region.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Senator Payman, first supplementary.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>54</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </answer>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>54</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Payman, Sen Fatima</name>
              <name.id>300707</name.id>
              <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
              <party>AV</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="300707" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator PAYMAN</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Western Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Australia's Voice Whip</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:45</span>):  Minister, you didn't answer my question, but we'll go to the supplementary. Women and children are up to 14 times more likely to die in a climate disaster. Will the government commit to a climate finance framework at COP31 that prioritises gender-transformative, locally led programming so that funding actually reaches the women who are bearing the brunt of this crisis?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>54</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Ayres, Sen Tim</name>
              <name.id>16913</name.id>
              <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="16913" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator AYRES</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for Industry and Innovation and Minister for Science</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:46</span>):  All I can say at this stage is that the government is developing and will develop the approach that we take to this round of climate negotiations in Australia's national interest. The construction of our national interest also involves considering our security and the security in our region. It also involves making sure we secure Australia's competitive advantage in energy and in re-industrialising our economy and making sure we deliver a safer and more prosperous Australia for the future. The alternative view is laid bare every time the uniparty of the Liberals, One Nation and the Nationals engage on these questions.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Senator Payman, second supplementary.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>54</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </answer>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>54</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Payman, Sen Fatima</name>
              <name.id>300707</name.id>
              <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
              <party>AV</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="300707" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator PAYMAN</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Western Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Australia's Voice Whip</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:47</span>):  Minister, Australia's climate finance currently sits, on average, at just $27 per person, compared with $52 per person in the UK and $72 per person in Germany. Will the government commit to closing that gap and scaling our climate finance to meet the growing demand?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>54</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Ayres, Sen Tim</name>
              <name.id>16913</name.id>
              <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="16913" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator AYRES</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for Industry and Innovation and Minister for Science</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:47</span>):  It is true, Senator Payman, that, globally, clean energy investment hit more than $2 trillion in 2025. That is where, for industry in Australia, competing for that investment to deliver outcomes like the outcome we've delivered in Tomago Aluminium is directly relevant to the future of blue-collar jobs in Australia. Rio Tinto, one of the owners of Tomago Aluminium, are not hippies; you couldn't possibly imagine them to be. But they made it very clear: coal-fired power is the problem for that industrial facility. Senator Canavan's and Mr Hastie's approach would close Tomago in a heartbeat—tomorrow—if they were ever in charge of our approach on energy. The company made it very clear: coal-fired power is the problem. Why is Senator Canavan proposing to close Tomago Aluminium?  <span style="font-style:italic;">(Time expired)</span></span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </answer>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Health Care</title>
          <page.no>54</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Health Care</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>54</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Ananda-Rajah, Sen Michelle</name>
              <name.id>290544</name.id>
              <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="290544" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator ANANDA-RAJAH</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Victoria</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:48</span>):  My question is to the Minister representing the Minister for Health and Ageing, Senator McAllister. Delivering affordable health care for Australians who need it most has been a key priority of the Albanese Labor government, because when Australians are sick they shouldn't have to worry about whether they can afford the health care they need. That includes delivering the largest cut to the cost of medicines in the history of the PBS and continuing to list more medicines every month. How is the government making more medicines cheaper and delivering real change for Australians who need it?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>54</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">McAllister, Sen Jenny</name>
              <name.id>121628</name.id>
              <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="121628" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator McALLISTER</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for the National Disability Insurance Scheme</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:49</span>):  I thank Senator Ananda-Rajah for her continuing interest in Australia's public health system. There is a simple principle at the heart of what we are doing, and it is this: when you are sick, you shouldn't have to worry about whether you can afford your medicine. It's why our government did deliver the largest cut to the cost of medicines in the history of the PBS. Medicines on the PBS now cost no more than $25—and we haven't stopped there. Every month we are listing more cheaper medicines on the PBS so that Australians with serious and chronic conditions can access the treatments that they need. From next month, that will include Australians living with a particular genetic form of motor neurone disease. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Luke Edmondson is one of the Australians that will benefit from this cheaper medicine. Luke's story is that he was 28 when he was diagnosed with MND. He had a new baby. He had just spent five years going through tests before genetic testing confirmed that he had the particular mutation in the SOD1 gene, and he described that diagnosis as 'a cloud hanging not over just my head, but my loved ones as well'. No government could ever take away exactly how hard a diagnosis like that is, but a government can make sure that, when a new treatment becomes available, the cost doesn't put it out of reach. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">From 1 October, Qalsody will be listed on the PBS for Australians living with this particular genetic form. Without the PBS, it could cost up to $28,600 per script. With the PBS, eligible patients will pay no more than $25. It's the second treatment for MND that's been listed on the PBS under our government. For Luke, and other Australians living with MND, we want to make sure that there are more treatments within reach. This is the difference that cheaper medicines can make, and this is what the Albanese Labor government will continue to deliver. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Senator Ananda-Rajah, first supplementary? </span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>55</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </answer>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>55</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Ananda-Rajah, Sen Michelle</name>
              <name.id>290544</name.id>
              <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="290544" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator ANANDA-RAJAH</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Victoria</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:51</span>):  Personalised treatments are a game changer. At the heart of a strong Medicare is a simple principle: when you need to see a doctor, you shouldn't have to worry about the cost. How is the Albanese Labor government making it easier for Australians to see a bulk billed GP and investing in the workforce to provide that care? </span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>55</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">McAllister, Sen Jenny</name>
              <name.id>121628</name.id>
              <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="121628" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator McALLISTER</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for the National Disability Insurance Scheme</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:51</span>):  When you're sick, you shouldn't have to worry about seeing a GP and paying a bill. That is why the Albanese government made the single largest investment in Medicare history. It was necessary because, after a decade of cuts and neglect, bulk billing was in freefall. Today, it is back on the rise. Today, more than eight out of 10 visits to the GP are free. Of course, bulk billing only works if there is a doctor available to see you. The decade of cuts put more than pressure on the family budget; it also saw doctors leave the system in droves. We are rebuilding that workforce. We're expanding GP training and we're expanding Commonwealth supported places. More doctors joined our system in the last two years than at any time in the past decade under those opposite. In 2026, around 2,100 doctors will begin government funded GP training. That is the largest cohort on record. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Senator Ananda-Rajah, second supplementary?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>55</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </answer>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>55</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Ananda-Rajah, Sen Michelle</name>
              <name.id>290544</name.id>
              <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="290544" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator ANANDA-RAJAH</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Victoria</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:52</span>):  General practice is the backbone of Medicare. We on this side of the chamber know that Medicare is one of the great Australian institutions. It means being able to see a GP with your Medicare card and getting the medicines you need without worrying about whether you can afford them. Minister, how is the Albanese Labor government strengthening Medicare to deliver real change for Australians, and are there any risks to this approach? </span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>55</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">McAllister, Sen Jenny</name>
              <name.id>121628</name.id>
              <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="121628" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator McALLISTER</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for the National Disability Insurance Scheme</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:53</span>):  We do know the difference that a stronger Medicare makes in people's lives. We hear from parents who can take a sick child to the doctor without worrying about the bill. We hear from Australians who can see a doctor early, before a small health problem becomes something that is much more serious. That is what bulk billing is all about. But it is worth remembering that those opposite—the Liberals, the Nationals and One Nation—take a very different view. When those opposite were last in government, they wanted Australians to pay a GP co-payment. They had to walk that back, and you might have thought they'd learnt from that, but the following year the current Leader of the Opposition, Mr Taylor, argued that the coalition's approach in fact should go further. He said it should 'extend across the health system'. That is not a vision for Medicare. That is not a vision for public health. That is not the Medicare that Australians deserve. Those opposite have never valued Medicare since its inception. We will, on this side of the chamber, always protect— <span style="font-style:italic;">(Time expired)</span></span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </answer>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Economy</title>
          <page.no>55</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Economy</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>55</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Hume, Sen Jane</name>
              <name.id>266499</name.id>
              <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
              <party>LP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="266499" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator HUME</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Victoria</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Deputy Leader of the Opposition</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:54</span>):  My question is to the Minister representing the Treasurer, Senator Gallagher. The <span style="font-style:italic;">Age</span> today reports that a Labor MP told the Treasurer:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">A lot of what we have done is throw cost-of-living relief at voters, which has an inflationary impact.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">When does the government expect inflation to return to the Reserve Bank's target band?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>55</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Gallagher, Sen Katy</name>
              <name.id>ING</name.id>
              <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="ING" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator GALLAGHER</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Australian Capital Territory</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for Finance, Minister for the Public Service, Minister for Women, Minister for Government Services and Manager of Government Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:55</span>):  Thank you very much, Senator Hume, for the question. As you will remember, inflation, when we came to government, had a six in front of it and was absolutely galloping. I think it peaked at almost eight per cent, maybe 7.8 per cent, in December of 2022, and it has come down considerably since then.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="266499" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Hume:</span>
                  </a>  It's not in the band, though, is it?</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="ING" type="MemberContinuation">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator GALLAGHER:</span>
                  </a>  You need to take responsibility for the time that you were in government because a lot of the problems that we have been dealing with in our term in government—we've been dealing with the inflation challenge—</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span class="HPS-GeneralIInterjecting">Honourable senators interjecting</span>—</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Minister, please resume your seat. Minister McAllister, a point of order?</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="121628" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator McAllister:</span>
                  </a>  Senators are interjecting. It's disorderly, and I can't hear Senator Gallagher.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  I am trying my very best to get order in this place, Minister McAllister. I have called for order, particularly on my left. I'll remind senators the minister has the right to be heard in silence.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="ING" type="MemberContinuation">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator GALLAGHER:</span>
                  </a>  I was merely making the point that the concern about inflation from those opposite didn't seem to cover the period of time that inflation was galloping away when they were in government; indeed it continued to rise to its peak in the December 2022 quarter, from memory.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Since then, we have seen inflation come down considerably. Now, instead of having a six in front of it, it has a three in front of it. We have been very clear that that is too high, as has the bank, and they are doing what they do in terms of their role in bringing inflation back to band. We are taking our responsibility in relation to the decisions that we make around that.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Much of the cost-of-living support, which you also complain about and voted against, was done in a targeted way that didn't add to the inflation challenge in the economy. We took those decisions very carefully, acknowledging that people were under pressure and that the government had a responsibility to respond to that.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Senator Hume, first supplementary?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>56</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Hume, Sen Jane</name>
                <name.id>266499</name.id>
                <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
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            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
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            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>56</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Gallagher, Sen Katy</name>
                <name.id>ING</name.id>
                <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>56</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>56</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">McAllister, Sen Jenny</name>
                <name.id>121628</name.id>
                <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>56</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>56</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Gallagher, Sen Katy</name>
                <name.id>ING</name.id>
                <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>56</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </answer>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>56</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Hume, Sen Jane</name>
              <name.id>266499</name.id>
              <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
              <party>LP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="266499" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator HUME</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Victoria</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Deputy Leader of the Opposition</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:57</span>):  Another Labor MP reportedly told the Treasurer:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">Small business is doing it very tough and we aren't doing enough for them.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Does the government accept that higher inflation and the resulting higher interest rates are putting further pressure on small businesses, including through higher borrowing costs?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>56</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Gallagher, Sen Katy</name>
              <name.id>ING</name.id>
              <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="ING" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator GALLAGHER</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Australian Capital Territory</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for Finance, Minister for the Public Service, Minister for Women, Minister for Government Services and Manager of Government Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:57</span>):  I think if you'd listened to my answer to the two questions that I've taken this week about some of the challenges facing the Australian economy, you will—</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span class="HPS-GeneralIInterjecting">An opposition senator interjecting</span>—</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="ING" type="MemberContinuation">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator GALLAGHER:</span>
                  </a>  Well, I doubt it—you will have heard that there are substantial challenges affecting the global economy which are having—</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span class="HPS-GeneralIInterjecting">Opposition senators interjecting</span>—</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="ING" type="MemberContinuation">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator GALLAGHER:</span>
                  </a>  If you over there want to run the economic argument that nothing that's happening in the world, including a land war in Europe and a war in the Middle East, has an impact back here, you go away and run that argument. I don't think anyone will believe you. There are substantial challenges in the global economy. We are seeing advanced economies with an inflation challenge. Many are dealing with the same pressures we are here. We will continue to take responsibility, and we will continue to do so in the decisions that we make.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Senator Hume, second supplementary?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>56</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Gallagher, Sen Katy</name>
                <name.id>ING</name.id>
                <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </continue>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>56</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Gallagher, Sen Katy</name>
                <name.id>ING</name.id>
                <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>56</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </answer>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>56</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Hume, Sen Jane</name>
              <name.id>266499</name.id>
              <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
              <party>LP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="266499" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator HUME</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Victoria</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Deputy Leader of the Opposition</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:59</span>):  Labor MPs have reportedly raised concerns with the Treasurer about inflation, interest rates and living standards. One has said that the government is 'making enemies' with its capital gains tax changes. If the government's own MPs are 'getting quite worried' about the direction of the economy, why shouldn't Australian families be worried too about Labor's tax and spend agenda?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>56</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Gallagher, Sen Katy</name>
              <name.id>ING</name.id>
              <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="ING" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator GALLAGHER</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Australian Capital Territory</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for Finance, Minister for the Public Service, Minister for Women, Minister for Government Services and Manager of Government Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:59</span>):  Well, I think what the Australian community see is a government that takes—</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="207825" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator McKenzie:</span>
                  </a>  What about your backbench?</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Minister Gallagher, please resume your seat. Seriously, Senator McKenzie, you need to come to order. Minister Gallagher, please continue.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="ING" type="MemberContinuation">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator GALLAGHER:</span>
                  </a>  The government takes responsibility for the challenges we see across the economy, makes decisions in the national interest whether it be about cost-of-living help, whether it be about savings in the budget, whether it be lowering the interest rate on the debt that we inherited from those opposite who, again, let that gallop away—just like you let inflation gallop away—</span>
              </p>
              <a href="217241" type="GeneralIInterjecting">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span class="HPS-GeneralIInterjecting">Senator McGrath interjecting</span>—</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Order! Minister, please resume your seat. I've just called Senator McKenzie to order. That doesn't mean, Senator McGrath, that it's your opportunity to interject, being rude and disorderly. Minister, please continue.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="ING" type="MemberContinuation">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator GALLAGHER:</span>
                  </a>  That's why we support tax cuts when you vote against them. That's why we support wage increases when you voted against them. So you come in here and cry your crocodile tears about being worried about Australian households, when you've done nothing in this chamber to help any Australian household with the decisions that you have made and that you are responsible for. We will continue to make decisions in our country's economic interests and acknowledge that people are under pressure at the same time, and we will continue to respond to that.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Minister Wong?</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="00AOU" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Wong:</span>
                  </a>  I ask that further questions be placed on the <span style="font-style:italic;">N</span><span style="font-style:italic;">otice</span><span style="font-style:italic;"> Paper</span>.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>56</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">McKenzie, Sen Bridget</name>
                <name.id>207825</name.id>
                <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
                <party>NATS</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>56</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>57</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Gallagher, Sen Katy</name>
                <name.id>ING</name.id>
                <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>57</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Senator McGrath interjecting—</name>
                <name.id />
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>57</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>57</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Gallagher, Sen Katy</name>
                <name.id>ING</name.id>
                <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>57</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>57</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Wong, Sen Penny</name>
                <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
                <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </answer>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE: TAKE NOTE OF ANSWERS</title>
        <page.no>57</page.no>
        <type>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE: TAKE NOTE OF ANSWERS</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <debate.text>
        <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
          <p class="HPS-Debate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Debate">QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE: TAKE NOTE OF ANSWERS</span>
          </p>
        </body>
      </debate.text>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Answers to Questions</title>
          <page.no>57</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Answers to Questions</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>57</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Brockman, Sen Slade (The DEPUTY PRESIDENT)</name>
              <name.id>30484</name.id>
              <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
              <party>LP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="30484" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Time">15:01</span>):  With the concurrence of the Senate, the clerks will set the clock in accordance with the formal arrangement agreed by the whips. Are there any motions?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>57</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Kovacic, Sen Maria</name>
              <name.id>306168</name.id>
              <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
              <party>LP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="306168" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator KOVACIC</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">15:01</span>):  I move:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">That the Senate take note of the answers given by ministers to questions without notice asked by Opposition senators today.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Well, that was quite a display in relation to a number of answers to questions, but I'll start particularly with those we just heard from Senator Gallagher. I don't even know where to begin. That in itself was a stunning denial of what Australians already know and, in fact, probably a classic case of gaslighting. To suggest that this government has taken hold and has improved inflation is extraordinary. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Senator Gallagher comments that, when they came into government, inflation was galloping away at six per cent and now has a three in front of it. She decides does not consider the facts that during the period of the last coalition government average inflation was 2.2 per cent and average inflation under this government from June 2022 until June 2026 is four per cent. That's double. That's twice as much. But we all know that. Australians are living that. To try and pretend that that is not occurring is disrespectful, it's egregious and it suggests that Australians don't actually understand what is going on in their own lives.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">We have seen the largest collapse in living standards in the developed world under the Albanese Labor government. We are one of only three developed countries where rates haven't come down in the past two years. Every single one of those developed countries has also experienced the same global impacts and the same global shocks, and the reason that they've been able to manage those is that they went into those global shocks in a better position than we did. The problem is that this government has mismanaged our economy, and Australians are paying the price for that.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">We have higher core inflation than any advanced economy not because of anything that happened in the past but because of everything that has occurred under the Albanese Labor government. We have higher core inflation than the UK. We have higher core inflation than the US. We have higher core inflation than Germany, Canada, Japan, Italy and France all because the Albanese Labor government has squandered and damaged Australia's economy, and they are pretending like there is nothing to see here. And now we have the highest-taxing government in Australia's history sitting across from us crushing the hopes and dreams of young Australians, crushing small business and dressing it up as intergenerational equity. It is an intergenerational fraud, and they should be ashamed of themselves.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">I also want to make a quick comment in relation to Senator Ruston's question on the comments on social media from Mr Muldoon. I endorse my colleague Senator Nampijinpa Price's comment that Mr Muldoon's remarks are repulsive, which they are. Senator Wong said that the comments are not acceptable and the Prime Minister has made that clear. Well, the question I have is are they only unacceptable because they are now quite public, because those comments have been there for quite some time. The comments in relation to Peta Credlin and the references to Margaret Thatcher were made on 12 June 2022, four years ago. The comments in relation to my colleague Dave Sharma, about being a fake Jew, were made on 22 April 2022. And the comments about my colleague Senator Nampijinpa Price were made on 15 October 2023. Perhaps the Prime Minister would like to answer that.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>58</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Whiteaker, Sen Ellie</name>
              <name.id>316555</name.id>
              <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="316555" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator WHITEAKER</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Western Australia</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">15:05</span>):  I rise to take note of answers given in question time. I particularly want to talk to the answers given by Senator Wong to the coalition's first questions, and then I'll get to some of the others.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">For someone from the party that talk endlessly about getting government out of other people's lives, Senator Cash seems remarkably interested in everyone else's. She has once again stood up in this place and asked us to question who gets to count as a woman. I think it's really important to talk honestly about this issue in this place, because these are conversations that can cause real harm to people.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">The Sex Discrimination Act does not outlaw all single-sex spaces, and it permits special measures for the purposes of achieving substantive equality for disadvantaged groups. And I think that's a really, really important point that we should talk to. I think if Senator Cash and the Liberal Party were genuinely concerned about women's safety, then their record might be very different.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">When Senator Cash was Attorney-General, her government refused to put a positive duty on employers to prevent sexual harassment in the workplace, and the Liberals voted against Labor's amendment to add a positive duty. So I think the thing that's hardest to stomach for me is Senator Cash pretending that this is about women's safety. In coming to government, we made gender pay equity a central objective of the Fair Work Act, and Senator Cash and the coalition opposed that too. If the Liberal Party and Senator Cash want to talk about women's safety, then I think they should begin by explaining their own record.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">While Senator Cash and the Liberal Party are busy dog whistling, this government is busy delivering for women. We are the first government in this country's history where women make up the majority of our caucus and the first with more women than men around the cabinet table. And you can see the difference that this makes in our approach to women and in the policies that we have delivered.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">We are committed to women's safety. Minister Plibersek, Assistant Minister White and Assistant Minister Kearney have spent much of the last few months consulting around the country with hundreds of stakeholders on the second action plan, and that's really important work. When we came to government in 2022, we brought back the Women's Budget Statement to put gender equality at the core of our economic plan. The gender pay gap is the lowest it has been. We've backed real pay rises for women workers in some of the lowest paid industries—many workers in those industries are women—and the minimum wage is now more than $12,000 a year higher than when we came to office. We have made child care cheaper for families, helping more women get back to work. And we've delivered a record investment in women's health.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">I am so proud of our government's record on women. And I'll say again that if Senator Cash and the Liberal Party want to come in here and dog whistle about women's safety, they should explain their record first.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>58</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">McGrath, Sen James</name>
              <name.id>217241</name.id>
              <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
              <party>LNP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="217241" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator McGRATH</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">15:09</span>):  Listening to the answers to the questions put by coalition senators, particularly in relation to the economy, I'm unsure what worries me the most: that Labor don't know the damage they're causing to the economy through their taxation changes or that they do know the damage that they are causing to the economy through their taxation changes and they just don't care. I suspect it may be a combination of both, because we've got this axis of a bubble that surrounds the Labor Party when it comes to decision-making concerning how the economy runs, combined with an ideology that is so against business.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Just this week I've been meeting with different stakeholders, who have been raising their concerns about how the capital gains tax changes are impacting business and in particular impacting the flow of capital into new businesses, into startups. The changes that have been made by the Labor Party and then the additional changes that came out at the end of last week have actually done very little to settle the concerns of the business community. The answers that were put on the record today by Labor ministers certainly should not allay the concerns of the business community. Indeed, they should send a very strong streak of panic through them that Labor just don't get it.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">For example, in the proposed changes to deal with capital gains tax and to deal with the taxation changes, the title of the secretary of the department is referenced 77 times in relation to that very senior bureaucrat being able to make decisions concerning the implementation of taxation changes. That is wrong, and it tells capital, tells business, that, if you have money, don't invest it in Australia, because your investments will be at the whim of decisions made by one bureaucrat in Canberra. And in a world where capital can shift from market to market, businesses will shift money overseas—or indeed not even look at Australia as a possible sovereign country in which to invest.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Why this is of concern, for those who are listening, is that we need to grow business in Australia, because when you have strong business—whether it's small, medium or large—that business employs people; it means that people have a job, it means that people can get into the housing market and it means that they can send their children to schools and can ensure through the taxes they pay that we live in a safe civic society where there is a safety net. But what Labor has failed to realise with the changes they've made in the budget and what they've failed to realise in their answers to the questions that have been put by coalition senators is that the exceptional Australian dream is being put at risk and the economy is in danger because of this axis of the Canberra bubble and the ideology that is pushing the modern Labor Party in its war on business and on capital.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="283585" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT </span>
                  </a>
                  <span class="HPS-GeneralBold">(</span>
                  <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator O'Sullivan</span>
                  <span class="HPS-GeneralBold">):</span>  Senator Marielle Smith.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>59</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">O'Sullivan, Sen Matt (The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>283585</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>59</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Smith, Sen Marielle</name>
              <name.id>281603</name.id>
              <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="281603" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator MARIELLE SMITH</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">15:13</span>):  Thank you, Acting Deputy President O'Sullivan—and it's nice to see you in the chair for this part of the program; it's unusual. I also rise to make a contribution on questions put by the opposition in question time today. It's a great opportunity to talk about our government's support for women and support for equality. When it comes to supporting gender equality in this place, and from our government, I am deeply proud of our record. While Senator Cash may think no-one cares about the gender pay gap, I do, our prime minister does and this government does. And we don't just care about it. We're actively doing things to make it better, to improve it and to improve the gender pay gap for working women, because it matters. As a result of these efforts, Australia now ranks 13th in the gender gap index, up from 43rd under the previous coalition government. That's also reflected in the actual figures when it comes to the gender pay gap. We're now at a record low of 11.3 per cent, compared to 14.2 per cent on their record.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">These things don't just happen. They're the result of concerted policy efforts to tackle gender inequality, to prioritise women's pay and closing the gender pay gap, to prioritise equality in decision-making and to make decisions, when it comes to public policy, that put equality at its heart.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">The facts are on the record, and the facts speak for themselves. Whether we're looking at rates of women's employment, rates of women's participation in employment, women's average weekly earnings, their wages, or whether or not they're employed part time or full time—on every single measure and every single metric, things are better under the Albanese Labor government than they were under the coalition government before it.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">That is a result not of luck or chance but of choice—a choice to prioritise equality and a choice to prioritise investments, which means we do things like close the gender pay gap. It means investing in things like wage rises in industries which have been historically underpaid, and they have been underpaid because they have been women's industries—industries like early learning and aged care, feminised industries, which have traditionally been underpaid. We've backed in pay rises for these workers because we back in working women and we back in gender equality.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">It's not just working women and wages which we are seeking to drive up; of course, we're investing in other measures, including women's safety—a record investment of over $4.4 billion in women's safety. We have the first dedicated safety plan for First Nations women and $3.9 billion in new funding for legal assistance, and we're providing $1 billion in crisis and transitional accommodation.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">We're investing across the board in women's health to make sure that, finally, after decades and decades of neglect, women's health is getting the funding and attention it deserves, including adding new medicines for HRT and contraceptives to the PBS for the first time in decades. For decades, women have been waiting for access to modern medicines that meet their needs, and we are fixing that, as well as investing in menopause and investing in upskilling GPs so that women's health is prioritised, funded and delivered in the way that women deserve.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Of course, we're also investing in things like prac payments in women dominated sectors. We're making historic investments across the board, as I said, in women's health and investing in early learning, which helps in terms of the participation rate of women in the economy. On every practical measure, we're putting our money where our mouth is and investing in equality, investing in improving outcomes for women across Australia, and our record stands head and shoulders above the record of the opposition when they were in government. <span style="font-style:italic;">(Time expired)</span></span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>59</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Blyth, Sen Leah</name>
              <name.id>315170</name.id>
              <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
              <party>LP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="315170" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator BLYTH</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">15:17</span>):  Well, this question time was certainly extraordinary—to be lectured by the other side of this chamber about women's rights and equality for women. I put this to them: how do you possibly protect women's rights, how do you guarantee fairness, privacy and respect, when you cannot even define what a woman is? That is the truth of it.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">We have women who are subjected to domestic violence and who are having to go into shelters, and they are being housed with men. We have men being housed in female prisons here in Australia. We've got a 31-year-old man playing hockey against girls as young as 14. How is that fair and how is that safe? This government is completely and deliberately blind to what it means for women to not have biological reality in our Sex Discrimination Act.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Now, we're not arguing about whether or not people would like to be transgender, but what this side of the chamber strongly believes in is that, when those two rights collide—when you have a man who identifies as a female, and women—women's rights should not come second to those of that man. Currently, that's exactly what happens under our Sex Discrimination Act here in Australia. I want to shout out to Sall Grover, who has fought this fight for three years. She took her fight all the way to the High Court. It is now abundantly clear that the Sex Discrimination Act is not fit for purpose. It is not fit for purpose for the women of Australia and it is not fit for purpose for young girls in Australia. So it is very, very clear that it is up to this parliament to take action. The coalition has tried to assist the government to restore common sense to the Sex Discrimination Act, and twice now the government has refused to act. What that is saying to every young girl and every woman in Australia is, 'Your rights and your safety come second to men in this country.'</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">On the other side of the chamber, Labor keep telling us how they are the champions of women in our country. That's what we keep being told. We've got a prime minister who went out and made some pretty revolting comments around melons in relation to the Japanese prime minister. Women on that side of the chamber come in here with a straight face and say, 'The Prime Minister talks with his hands.' I mean, come on! Is that seriously the excuse you've come up with? You can't possibly say you are a champion of women and equal rights and then come in here and defend the actions of the Prime Minister, saying he just talks with his hands, and then make sure that for every young girl and every woman in Australia their rights come second because we will not put biological reality back into the Sex Discrimination Act.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Then let's talk about the types of people that that side of the chamber—who are, let's not forget, the champions of women!—want to employ. We've got Rhys Muldoon's comments. I'm not actually going to repeat them in the chamber, because they are that disgusting. These are comments about women, good, strong women who are going out there and advocating for their communities. They're advocating for the rights of women. This is a bloke who's employed by a Labor senator who is making these remarks publicly. It is just disgraceful. This government says one thing and does another. <span style="font-style:italic;">(Time expired)</span></span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Question agreed to.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Migration</title>
          <page.no>60</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Migration</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>60</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Shoebridge, Sen David</name>
              <name.id>169119</name.id>
              <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
              <party>AG</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="169119" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator SHOEBRIDGE</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">15:22</span>):  I move:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">That the Senate take note of answers given by the Minister for the Environment and Water (Senator Watt) in relation to questions without notice I asked today on migration.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">You can see a lot about Labor in how they respond when they're put under the smallest amount of pressure on migration. The Greens got up and asked Labor: 'Why do you keep cutting deals with the coalition and Peter Dutton on migration? Why did you do a grubby deal with Peter Dutton to send people to a prison camp in Nauru? Why did you cut a deal with the coalition earlier this year to put in Trump-style travel bans and cut off, for example, people coming from Iran in the middle of a war? And why are you now looking to cut a deal with Angus Taylor on your migration? Why do you keep running off to the right in fear of the hard far-right? Why do you keep doing that?'</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">You know what really shows Labor? It's this. When the Greens ask why Labor keeps cutting deals with the right, do you know what Labor does? They don't come out and attack Pauline Hanson. They don't come out and attack the racist, grubby politics of One Nation. They come out and attack the Greens for daring to ask the question, for daring to point out exactly where Labor's migration policy has taken them. Ask yourself this. There was the grubby deal with Peter Dutton to send more people, against their will and with no connection to Nauru, to the appalling conditions in Nauru. They cut that deal with Peter Dutton, if you remember that. Then they ran an election campaign saying: 'Oh, my God, you've got to save us from Dutton! The world needs to be saved from Dutton.' That was after they dealt with Dutton and they invited him into the tent and sucked up his politics on cruelty to people going to Nauru. Then people asked: what's next? I'll tell you what was next. They then reached out again to the coalition because the coalition and Labor are both running to the drum of Pauline Hanson and, earlier this year, they put in Trump-style travel bans. What's happened with those Trump-style travel bans that Labor put in? We now see the coalition and One Nation saying that they want to use Labor's legislation to put a complete ban on anyone travelling here from Lebanon, for example. There are a quarter of a million Australians whose heritage is traced back to Lebanon. Labor has given One Nation the legislative pathway to say that anyone whose family is in Lebanon can't bring their parents here, can't bring their loved ones, can't bring your brother or your sister here. Who gave One Nation that weapon? I'll tell you who gave One Nation that weapon. Labor, like they always do. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">I remember back in the last parliament when we were trying to resist the latest extreme attack on migration coming from Labor. I remember some of the discussions with the coalition. The coalition said, 'We can't resist this because this is meaner than we could ever get through ourselves as government.' The ones who truly get through the ugly, nastiest extent when it comes to punching down on migrants are the Labor Party. Watch Labor in play. Watch how Labor is doing. When anyone challenges Labor's race to the bottom and their latest grubby attack on migrants, they don't actually reach out and try to confront the rhetoric that's coming from One Nation, the racist rhetoric from One Nation, the ugly rhetoric from One Nation, the misdirection from One Nation where they're taking people's legitimate grievances about housing and jobs and concern for their material security and weaponizing it against migrants instead of One Nation's billionaire backers. When did you last hear Labor say that One Nation is actually distracting from the real causes of people's insecurity? The real causes are the Gina Rineharts and the billionaire backers who are trying to misdirect people's legitimate anger about the one per cent gouging while everyone else suffers and misdirect that to migration and attack migrants. When did you last see Labor make that argument? Never. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">When Labor's challenged on migration, they never push back against One Nation. They never push back against the coalition. They cut deals with that mob and they turn their attack against the left in politics who actually have some principles in this place. They do it time and time again. The icing on the cake with Labor is when you ask them about why they have comprehensively failed after what seems like forever but is about five years in government, why they have comprehensively failed on housing, why they've comprehensively failed on wages and wages are going backwards and why people are feeling more insecure, they say, 'It's all the Greens' fault. It's all the Greens' fault.' Well, Labor's been in government. Labor has allowed One Nation to rise, and Labor continues to pump their tyres. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Question agreed to.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Indigenous Australians</title>
          <page.no>61</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Indigenous Australians</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>61</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Thorpe, Sen Lidia</name>
              <name.id>280304</name.id>
              <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
              <party>IND</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="280304" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator THORPE</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Victoria</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Independent VIC Whip</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">15:27</span>):  I move:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">That the Senate take note of the answer given by the Minister for Foreign Affairs (Senator Wong) to a question without notice I asked today relating to Indigenous Australians.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">It was disappointing to see Minister Wong say that asking about genocide on this continent is making a political point. It is not. It is about real history that has occurred here. This new research shows over two million First Peoples from this country were wiped out in the first years of invasion, and yet we still have a government that is in a state of denial and that cannot use the G-word. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Minister Wong clearly called for a truth-telling process and said she would support this. Now, I've been calling for the truth-telling process for years before that terrible referendum. We need truth-telling on a national scale through a truth and justice commission with royal commission powers—you mentioned the Yoorrook; that's what they did—one that can properly investigate the crimes that have occurred in this country and repair the harm done. The Albanese government came to power on a promise of truth-telling, but this was a promise they soon broke. It was a betrayal of First Peoples in this country, and it was a betrayal of the truth. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">The 1997 <span style="font-style:italic;">Bringing Them Home</span> report, which my mother was a part of, says that child removals constituted genocide. The Yoorrook Justice Commission found that the colonisation of Victoria involved genocide. Again, just last year, Minister Wong mentioned the Yoorrook Justice Commission but couldn't bring herself to say the word genocide. Last year, former Labor senator Pat Dodson said the ongoing jailing and stealing of our children is genocide. The evidence has been known and available for decades. My people have been calling for truth-telling and justice for over 200 years, but this Albanese Labor government can't even acknowledge the basic truth of what happened here. We saw Labor politicians join the National Walk for Truth. We saw the Prime Minister join the National Walk for Truth. We hear speech after speech from Labor politicians about truth-telling, but they're just empty words. They don't want the truth. They want to continue the lie that this place is founded on.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Question agreed to.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>United Nations Climate Change Conference</title>
          <page.no>61</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">United Nations Climate Change Conference</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>61</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Payman, Sen Fatima</name>
              <name.id>300707</name.id>
              <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
              <party>AV</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="300707" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator PAYMAN</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Western Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Australia's Voice Whip</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">15:30</span>):  I move:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">That the Senate take note of the answer given by the Minister representing the Minister for Climate Change and Energy (Senator Ayres) to the question without notice I asked during question time today.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">It was a very simple question about what Australia, as the President of Negotiations for COP31, is going to do when it comes to ensuring that women's welfare remains front and centre of our agenda when it comes to climate action, and yet the minister just seemed to be way too obsessed with the coalition and way too obsessed with Senator Canavan and completely dodged my question, but that's not new from this government, unfortunately. They love dodging questions and avoiding giving answers that Australians deserve to know.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Since July 2025, I've put on the record and requested 69 OPDs. For those watching, OPDs are orders for production of documents. Essentially, any senator in this place can ask the government to release documents and information about a particular matter. I've moved 69 OPDs, and I can't tell you how many of those OPDs have come back completely redacted. The government have time to sit there and redact every single paragraph, every single line item, of the 144 pages that get delivered to my office, yet they don't have the time or the capacity to actually show the answers to the Australian people. It would actually save them a lot more time to just be upfront with everybody.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">The redactions are ridiculous. The lack of transparency we see is ridiculous. This isn't the government that Australian people elected. You've got a big mandate. Just be honest with the people. It's not hard. Like Senator Thorpe said, people want to know the truth. People want to know what's going on. The decisions you get to make on behalf of people without their input—we're seeing the undermining of our democracy and of our processes, and Australians deserve better, and they're watching you. I'm not surprised, but I'm disappointed that this is the choice the government's made.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Question agreed to.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>62</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <debate.text>
        <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
          <p class="HPS-Debate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Debate">DOCUMENTS</span>
          </p>
        </body>
      </debate.text>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Middle East</title>
          <page.no>62</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Middle East</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>62</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Thorpe, Sen Lidia</name>
              <name.id>280304</name.id>
              <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
              <party>IND</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="280304" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator THORPE</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Victoria</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Independent VIC Whip</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">15:33</span>):  I seek leave to table a document.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Leave not granted.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="280304" type="MemberContinuation">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator THORPE:</span>
                  </a>  Pursuant to contingent notice standing in my name, I move:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">That so much of the standing orders be suspended as would prevent me tabling the document.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">I sought leave here today to table a document that lists the names of 21,637 children killed in Gaza between October 2023 and May 2026. The coalition does not want me to table this, and now the government don't want me to table—</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="00AOU" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Wong:</span>
                  </a>  We gave leave!</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="280304" type="MemberContinuation">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator THORPE:</span>
                  </a>  Okay, I'll take that back. Thank you. These children have had their—</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="00AOU" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Wong:</span>
                  </a>  Seriously.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="280304" type="MemberContinuation">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator THORPE:</span>
                  </a>  Calm down—lives taken through a cruel genocide. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Senator Thorpe, I'm going to remind you, as I do for all senators—you've sought to suspend because leave was denied for you to table a document. What you really need to focus on is the suspension not the substantive matter of the document you're seeking to table. You can refer to the document, but the substantive part of your five minutes needs to focus on the suspension.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="280304" type="MemberContinuation">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator THORPE:</span>
                  </a>  These children have had their lives taken through a cruel genocide. They cannot have their identity taken away as well. They deserve to have their names heard. Their families deserve to have them remembered. This is why I'm bringing their names to the Senate today. Just last week, I was handed this box with 21,000 children's names.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Senator Thorpe, I am going to again remind you that this is a suspension debate. Your comments need to substantially relate to the suspension.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="280304" type="MemberContinuation">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator THORPE:</span>
                  </a>  The 21,000 names I was given in those bits of paper are in this document that I'm trying to table into the Senate. Each one contains the name of a child that was killed. I would have liked to present every single one here individually, but this place cannot deal with that. Here I am, presenting 451 densely filled pages containing the names of 21,637 children killed in Gaza. These were lives taken prematurely. These children had their—</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Senator Thorpe, I'm again going to draw you back to your suspension motion. It's not about the substantive nature of that document. It is about why you are seeking to suspend.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="280304" type="MemberContinuation">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator THORPE:</span>
                  </a>  I'm seeking to suspend because we are complicit in a genocide in this country of these children who've been massacred, murdered, and their parents can't bury them because they can't find all the limbs to their bodies. They can't grieve.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Senator Thorpe, I'm going to again draw you back to the suspension.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="280304" type="MemberContinuation">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator THORPE:</span>
                  </a>  I'm suspending standing orders because these children were loved and will be missed forever. Their families are living through unimaginable grief. I'm tabling this document because the sad reality is that thousands more children were killed in Gaza during that same time, as well as many more since. I'm tabling this document for so many reasons. Their deaths are—</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Senator Thorpe, if you just hear me out, please. I'm trying to assist you. You sought leave to table the document. Leave was denied. You then moved your suspension motion. It is really the suspension motion that we are now debating in the chamber, not what you were seeking to present.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="280304" type="MemberContinuation">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator THORPE:</span>
                  </a>  Sorry, President. I'm actually giving you reasons why I'm suspending, and it's because this country's complicit in the deaths of these children, and I'm trying to table it so that we have a record in this country of all of the children that we're complicit in killing. It's an important document.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Senator Thorpe, I'll draw you to—we are now beyond the tabling of the document. You were not granted leave to table the document. You were not granted leave. You sought to suspend. What the Senate is debating right now is your suspension. That's what you need to keep coming back to—the suspension.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="250362" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Faruqi:</span>
                  </a>  The suspension is to table the documents.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Senator Faruqi, you are being disorderly. I'm trying to ensure that this is an orderly debate.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="280304" type="MemberContinuation">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator THORPE:</span>
                  </a>  I'm suspending standing orders because 15-year-old Suhail Walid Suhail Abu Shaaban was murdered. Yousef Sharif Salah Abu Al-Shaar, 16, was murdered, as was Mohammed Taha Mohammed Farah Reihan, 14; Nevin Mohammed Raed Al-Saati, two; Yahya—</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Senator Thorpe, I'm going to advise you once again it is about the suspension motion, not about the document that you are seeking to table.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="280304" type="MemberContinuation">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator THORPE:</span>
                  </a>  I'm suspending standing orders to read the names of dead children who have been massacred on our watch in Palestine, in Gaza. I'm reading out the names as part of my suspension—Kanari Mutasim Mahmoud Aqel,0; Zina—</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Senator Thorpe, you need to confine your remarks to the suspension order.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="280304" type="MemberContinuation">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator THORPE:</span>
                  </a>  I am suspending standing orders to deliver a document with over 20,000 dead children. We are complicit in the genocide against Palestinians. I have over 400 pages of dead children's names that I am suspending to ensure a part of <span style="font-style:italic;">Hansard</span> in this country—Hour Al-Ein Osama Suleiman Abu Sneima,0; Razan Jihad Yousef Asaliya,0—</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Senator Thorpe, I have asked you to confine your remarks to the suspension order.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="280304" type="MemberContinuation">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator THORPE:</span>
                  </a>  I'm suspending because of the cruel, inhumane actions of this government that is complicit in the genocide in Palestine, who continues to sell parts that kill these children. We're selling parts—</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Senator Thorpe, I have really tried very hard to get you to focus on the suspension order. It's about the need to suspend, not what's in the document.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="280304" type="MemberContinuation">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator THORPE:</span>
                  </a>  The need to suspend is because we cannot be complicit as a country in an ongoing genocide of 21,000 Palestinian children. These are the names that I want all of you to read. I want all of you to think about your own children. As a grandmother, as a mother, I think about these children. I think about my own children. If I was in this situation then I'd want a country to stand up for me, and this country is not doing that for Palestine right now. It is complicit. It is actually selling arms to Israel to kill 21,000 children.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Senator Cash.</span>
              </p>
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                <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
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                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
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                <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
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                <name.id>280304</name.id>
                <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
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                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
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                <name.id>250362</name.id>
                <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                <party>AG</party>
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                <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
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                <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
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                <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
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                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
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              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Cash, Sen Michaelia</name>
              <name.id>I0M</name.id>
              <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
              <party>LP</party>
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            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="I0M" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CASH</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Western Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Leader of the Opposition in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">15:42</span>):  The coalition will not be supporting the suspension of standing orders to enable the tabling of this document. Our position is consistent with the position that we put last time, that Senator Thorpe, indeed again, sought to suspend standing orders to table a similar document. Senator Thorpe has actually, in her speech, addressed what the document is, and Senator Thorpe has now raised some names on the <span style="font-style:italic;">Hansard</span> record of children, she says, who have been killed in Gaza. The issue that we have, though, in terms of the suspension and the urgency of it, is that the document has been produced using data published by Tech for Palestine. Consistent again with the comments that I put on the record last time, one of the issues is that, in suspending standing orders and saying that it's urgent, you actually really do need to be able to verify exactly where the source document comes from. Sadly, as I said last time, our concern is with the evidentiary basis on which a document containing the thousands of individual names is placed formally before the Australian Senate. I would submit to you that, yet again in this case, the Gaza Ministry of Health is under the control of the listed terrorist organisation Hamas.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Senator Cash, you are drifting away from the substance of the motion.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="I0M" type="MemberContinuation">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator CASH:</span>
                  </a>  On that basis, I would say that the urgency is, sadly, not established.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Minister Gallagher.</span>
              </p>
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                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
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                <name role="metadata">Cash, Sen Michaelia</name>
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                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
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              <name role="metadata">Gallagher, Sen Katy</name>
              <name.id>ING</name.id>
              <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
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          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="ING" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator GALLAGHER</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Australian Capital Territory</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for Finance, Minister for the Public Service, Minister for Women, Minister for Government Services and Manager of Government Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">15:44</span>):  I move:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">That the question be put.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Question agreed to.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  The question now is that the motion moved by Senator Thorpe to suspend standing orders be agreed to.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal"> </span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>63</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </speech>
        <division>
          <division.header>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [15:49]<br />(The President—Senator Lines)</p>
            </body>
          </division.header>
          <division.data>
            <ayes>
              <num.votes>32</num.votes>
              <title>AYES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                <name>Ananda-Rajah, M.</name>
                <name>Bleyer, V. E.</name>
                <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                <name>Chisholm, A. D.</name>
                <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                <name>Dolega, J.</name>
                <name>Dowling, R.</name>
                <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                <name>Gallagher, K. R.</name>
                <name>Ghosh, V.</name>
                <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                <name>Hodgins-May, S.</name>
                <name>Lines, S.</name>
                <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                <name>McKim, N. J.</name>
                <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                <name>Payman, F.</name>
                <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                <name>Polley, H.</name>
                <name>Sheldon, A. V. (Teller)</name>
                <name>Shoebridge, D. M.</name>
                <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                <name>Thorpe, L. A.</name>
                <name>Walker, C.</name>
                <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                <name>Whiteaker, E.</name>
              </names>
            </ayes>
            <noes>
              <num.votes>20</num.votes>
              <title>NOES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Antic, A.</name>
                <name>Bell, S.</name>
                <name>Blyth, L.</name>
                <name>Bragg, A. J.</name>
                <name>Cadell, R. P.</name>
                <name>Canavan, M. J.</name>
                <name>Cash, M. C.</name>
                <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                <name>Hanson, P. L.</name>
                <name>Henderson, S. M.</name>
                <name>Kovacic, M. (Teller)</name>
                <name>McDonald, S. E.</name>
                <name>McKenzie, B. G.</name>
                <name>McLachlan, A. L.</name>
                <name>O'Sullivan, M. A.</name>
                <name>Roberts, M. I.</name>
                <name>Sharma, D. N.</name>
                <name>Smith, D. A.</name>
                <name>Whitten, T.</name>
              </names>
            </noes>
            <pairs>
              <num.votes>11</num.votes>
              <title>PAIRS</title>
              <names>
                <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                <name>Brockman, W. E.</name>
                <name>Cox, D.</name>
                <name>Paterson, J. W.</name>
                <name>Darmanin, L.</name>
                <name>Nampijinpa Price, J. S.</name>
                <name>Farrell, D. E.</name>
                <name>Chandler, C.</name>
                <name>Grogan, K.</name>
                <name>Hume, J.</name>
                <name>McCarthy, M.</name>
                <name>Liddle, K. J.</name>
                <name>Mulholland, C.</name>
                <name>Gatenby, C.</name>
                <name>Stewart, J. N. A.</name>
                <name>McGrath, J. A.</name>
                <name>Tyrrell, T. M.</name>
                <name>Collins, J. N.</name>
                <name>Watt, M. P.</name>
                <name>Scarr, P. M.</name>
                <name>Wong, P.</name>
                <name>Ruston, A.</name>
              </names>
            </pairs>
          </division.data>
          <division.result>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to.</p>
            </body>
          </division.result>
        </division>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>64</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Thorpe, Sen Lidia</name>
              <name.id>280304</name.id>
              <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
              <party>IND</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="280304" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator THORPE</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Victoria</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Independent VIC Whip</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">15:51</span>):  I table the document.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>NOTICES</title>
        <page.no>64</page.no>
        <type>NOTICES</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <debate.text>
        <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
          <p class="HPS-Debate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Debate">NOTICES</span>
          </p>
        </body>
      </debate.text>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Presentation</title>
          <page.no>64</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Presentation</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Normal">
                <span style="font-weight:bold;">Senator Collins</span> to move on the next day of sitting:</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Small">That—</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Small">(a) the Senate notes the inadequate responses provided by the Department of Defence to questions on notice lodged through the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade References Committee inquiry into the management of Defence estate assets and Defence's ongoing failure to provide revised answers to questions on notice; and</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Small">(b) there be laid on the table by the Minister representing the Minister for Defence, by no later than 9 am on Wednesday, 7 October 2026, documents or information that provide the details of the proposed scope of work, the estimated cost breakdown of the work, the total cost of the work and any site and environmental impact for the following Department of Defence medium public works projects:</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
              <span class="HPS-Small">(i) PDS Project EST09153—Enhanced Sensitive Compartmented Information Facility Capability at RAAF Glenbrook, NSW, 13 February 2024,</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
              <span class="HPS-Small">(ii) PDS Project EST08770—RAAF Glenbrook Falcon Building 48 refurbishment, 2 February 2022,</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
              <span class="HPS-Small">(iii) PDS Project EST08215—Officers Mess refurbishment, Victoria Barracks, NSW, 31 January 2022,</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
              <span class="HPS-Small">(iv) New Service Residences, East Middlesex Way, Victoria Barracks, Paddington, NSW, 7 February 2022,</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
              <span class="HPS-Small">(v) PDS Project EST07005—HMAS Penguin Building 6 refurbishment, NSW, 31 January 2022,</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
              <span class="HPS-Small">(vi) PDS Project EST08141—Building refurbishments, HMAS Penguin, NSW, 21 March 2022,</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
              <span class="HPS-Small">(vii) PDS Project EST08250—Building 16 refurbishment, HMAS Penguin, NSW, 29 August 2022,</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
              <span class="HPS-Small">(viii) PDS Project EST08214—Combined Mess refurbishment, HMAS Penguin, NSW, 29 August 2022,</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
              <span class="HPS-Small">(ix) PDS Project EST08282—Building 20 refurbishment, HMAS Penguin, NSW, 29 August 2022,</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
              <span class="HPS-Small">(x) PDS Project EST07737—Building EP2 refurbishment, Edinburgh Parks, SA, 21 November 2022, and</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
              <span class="HPS-Small">(xi) PDS Project EST05853—Wharf works, Spectacle Island, NSW, 21 March 2022. </span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Normal">
                <span style="font-weight:bold;">Senator Shoebridge</span> to move on the next day of sitting:</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Small">That the Senate—</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Small">(a) notes that:</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
              <span class="HPS-Small">(i) on 2 July 2026, the Senate agreed to order for the production of documents no. 564, Defence reform study, with a compliance date of no later than 28 July 2026,</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
              <span class="HPS-Small">(ii) on 30 July 2026, the Minister representing the Minister for Defence provided a letter from the Minister for Defence which stated that additional time was required, and</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
              <span class="HPS-Small">(iii) the order has still not been complied with; and</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Small">(b) requires the Minister representing the Minister for Defence to comply with the order by 11 am on 18 September 2026. </span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Normal">
                <span style="font-weight:bold;">Senator Cadell</span> to move on the next day of sitting:</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Small">That there be laid on the table by the Minister representing the Minister for Veterans' Affairs, by no later than midday on Wednesday, 23 September 2026, the final version of each question time brief, however described and regardless of authorship, prepared for, provided to, held by or used by any minister representing the Minister for Veterans' Affairs in the Senate between 1 May 2026 and the date of this order, relating to the proposed $5,000 annual monetary limit or review threshold for allied health services for veterans. (<span style="font-style:italic;">general business notice of motion no. 754</span>)</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Normal">
                <span style="font-weight:bold;">Senator McKenzie</span>
                <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                </span>to move on the next day of sitting:</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Small">That the Senate—</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Small">(a) notes that:</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
              <span class="HPS-Small">(i) on Wednesday, 9 September 2026, the Senate agreed to orders for the production of documents nos 678 to 680, relating to projects as part of the Major and Local Community Infrastructure Program, requiring the Minister representing the Minister for Infrastructure, Transport, Regional Development and Local Government to comply by midday on Wednesday, 16 September 2026, and</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
              <span class="HPS-Small">(ii) the orders have not been complied with; and</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Small">(b) requires the Minister representing the Minister for Infrastructure, Transport, Regional Development and Local Government to attend the Senate on Monday, 12 October 2026, immediately before government business is called on, to provide an explanation, of no more than 5 minutes, of the failure to comply with the orders, and that:</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
              <span class="HPS-Small">(i) any senator may move to take note of the explanation, and</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
              <span class="HPS-Small">(ii) any such motion may be debated for no longer than 30 minutes and shall have precedence over all other business until determined, and senators may speak to the motion for not more than 5 minutes each. </span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Normal">
                <span style="font-weight:bold;">Senator David Pocock</span> to move on the next day of sitting:</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Small">That the Senate—</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Small">(a) notes that:</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
              <span class="HPS-Small">(i) on Wednesday, 12 August 2026, the Senate agreed to order for the production of documents no. 569, relating to the Future Fit Program, requiring the Minister representing the Minister for Aged Care and Seniors to comply by midday on Tuesday, 8 September 2026, and</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
              <span class="HPS-Small">(ii) the order has not been complied with; and</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Small">(b) requires the Minister representing the Minister for Aged Care and Seniors to comply with the order by no later than 9 am on Monday, 12 October 2026. </span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Normal">
                <span style="font-weight:bold;">Senator David Pocock</span> to move on the next day of sitting:</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Small">That the Senate—</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Small">(a) notes that Australia's lobbying rules cover only third-party lobbyists, leaving most of those who lobby the Commonwealth outside the system entirely;</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Small">(b) notes that the Code is not law, the Register is incomplete, and there is no independent regulator to enforce it;</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Small">(c) affirms that lobbying rules should be transparent, cover everyone who lobbies, be independently enforced and ensure access is not determined by money or connections; and</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Small">(d) calls on the Government to legislate during this parliamentary term to bring all lobbyists under an enforceable code overseen by an independent regulator; close the revolving door between decision-makers and the industries they regulate; and require publication of details of meetings with lobbyists. </span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Normal">
                <span style="font-weight:bold;">Senator Nampijinpa Price</span> to move 15 sitting days after today:</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Small">That the National Vocational Education and Training Regulator (Charges) Determination 2026, made under the <span style="font-style:italic;">National Vocational Education and Training Regulator (Charges) Act 2012</span>, be disallowed [F2026L00816].</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Normal">
                <span style="font-weight:bold;">Senator Hodgins-May</span> to move on the next day of sitting:</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Small">That there be laid on the table by the Minister for the Environment and Water, by no later than midday on Monday, 12 October 2026, the following documents covering the time period of 27 March to 18 September 2026:</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Small">(a) all correspondence between the office of the Prime Minister and the office of the Minister for the Environment and Water relating to an extended producer responsibility scheme; and</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Small">(b) all briefs, speaking notes, memoranda, correspondence and other documents relating to an extended producer responsibility scheme prepared for or provided to the Minister for the Environment and Water by:</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
              <span class="HPS-Small">(i) the Department of Climate Change, Energy, the Environment and Water,</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
              <span class="HPS-Small">(ii) the office of the Minister for the Environment and Water, or</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
              <span class="HPS-Small">(iii) the office of the Prime Minister;</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Small">in preparation for the joint meeting of environment ministers to be held on 18 September 2026. </span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Normal">
                <span style="font-weight:bold;">Senator Ruston</span> to move on the next day of sitting:</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Small">That there be laid on the table, by the Minister representing the Minister for Aged Care and Seniors, by no later than 5 pm on Thursday, 17 September 2026, all documents released by the Department of Health, Disability and Ageing in response to freedom of information request FOI 26-3159 relating to the Single Assessment System, in full and without redaction. (<span style="font-style:italic;">general business notice of motion no. 759</span>)</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Normal">
                <span style="font-weight:bold;">Senator Bragg</span> to move on the next day of sitting:</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Small">That the Senate—</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Small">(a) notes that:</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
              <span class="HPS-Small">(i) on 19 August 2026, the Senate agreed to order for the production of documents no. 618, relating to the 5% deposit scheme, requiring the Minister representing the Minister for Housing to comply by midday on Friday, 21 August 2026,</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
              <span class="HPS-Small">(ii) on 9 September 2026, the Senate agreed to a further order requiring the minister to comply with the order by midday on Tuesday, 15 September 2026, and</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
              <span class="HPS-Small">(iii) the order has still not been complied with; and</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Small">(b) requires the Minister representing the Minister for Housing to attend the Senate at the start of proceedings on Wednesday, 14 October 2026 to provide an explanation, of no more than 5 minutes, of the failure to comply with the order, and that:</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
              <span class="HPS-Small">(i) any senator may move to take note of the explanation, and</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
              <span class="HPS-Small">(ii) any such motion may be debated for no longer than 30 minutes and shall have precedence over all other business until determined, and senators may speak to the motion for not more than 5 minutes each. </span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Normal">
                <span style="font-weight:bold;">Senator Bragg</span> to move on the next day of sitting:</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Small">That the Senate—</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Small">(a) notes that:</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
              <span class="HPS-Small">(i) on Wednesday, 9 September 2026, the Senate agreed to orders for the production of documents nos 676 and 677, relating to the Housing Australia Future Fund (HAFF) funding round 3 and housing delivery, requiring the Minister representing the Minister for Housing to comply by midday on Tuesday, 15 September 2026,</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
              <span class="HPS-Small">(ii) on Thursday, 10 September 2026, the Senate agreed to orders for the production of documents nos 688 to 690, relating to Treasury modelling and analysis on housing matters, conflict-of-interests plans or policies for the new Chair of the Housing Australia Board, and first home buyers, housing investors and borrowers who have fallen into negative equity, requiring the Ministers representing the Treasurer and the Minister for Housing to comply by midday on Tuesday, 15 September 2026, and</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
              <span class="HPS-Small">(iii) the orders have not been complied with; and</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Small">(b) requires the Ministers representing the Treasurer and the Minister for Housing to comply with the following orders by no later than midday on Monday, 5 October 2026:</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
              <span class="HPS-Small">(i) no. 676 (HAFF funding round 3 market industry briefing),</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
              <span class="HPS-Small">(ii) no. 677 (HAFF funding round 3 funding and housing delivery),</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
              <span class="HPS-Small">(iii) no. 688 (private credit, debt and insolvencies in the housing construction sector),</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
              <span class="HPS-Small">(iv) no. 689 (new Chair of the Housing Australia Board), and</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
              <span class="HPS-Small">(v) no. 690 (first home buyers, housing investors and borrowers in negative equity). </span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>BUSINESS</title>
        <page.no>67</page.no>
        <type>BUSINESS</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <debate.text>
        <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
          <p class="HPS-Debate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Debate">BUSINESS</span>
          </p>
        </body>
      </debate.text>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Rearrangement</title>
          <page.no>67</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Rearrangement</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>67</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Gallagher, Sen Katy</name>
              <name.id>ING</name.id>
              <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="ING" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator GALLAGHER</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Australian Capital Territory</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for Finance, Minister for the Public Service, Minister for Women, Minister for Government Services and Manager of Government Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">15:51</span>):  I move:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">That the Military Rehabilitation and Compensation Veterans (Healthcare Without Caps) Bill 2026 be considered on Thursday 17 September 2026, at the time for private senators' bills. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Question agreed to.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Leave of Absence</title>
          <page.no>67</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Leave of Absence</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>67</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">McKim, Sen Nick</name>
              <name.id>JKM</name.id>
              <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
              <party>AG</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="JKM" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator McKIM</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Tasmania</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Australian Greens Whip</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">15:51</span>):  by leave—I move:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">That leave of absence be granted for Senator Faruqi for 15 September. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Question agreed to.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Rearrangement</title>
          <page.no>67</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Rearrangement</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>67</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Gallagher, Sen Katy</name>
              <name.id>ING</name.id>
              <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="ING" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator GALLAGHER</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Australian Capital Territory</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for Finance, Minister for the Public Service, Minister for Women, Minister for Government Services and Manager of Government Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">15:52</span>):  by leave—I move:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">That—</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">(1) On Thursday, 17 September 2026:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">(a) the Defence Force Discipline Amendment (RCDVS Implementation and Related Measures No. 1) Bill 2026 be called on following the conclusion of private senators' bills, or at 10.10 am, whichever is earlier, and have precedence over all other business till 11.15 am;</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">(b) the Defence Legislation Amendment (RCDVS Implementation and Related Measures No. 2) Bill 2026 be called on at the conclusion of formal motions, or at</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">12.15 pm, whichever is earlier and have precedence over all other business till 1.15 pm;</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">(c) the questions on all remaining stages of the following bills be put at 1.15 pm:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">(i) Defence Force Discipline Amendment (RCDVS Implementation and Related Measures No. 1) Bill 2026,</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">(ii) Defence Legislation Amendment (RCDVS Implementation and Related Measures No. 2)</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      34pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">Bill 2026, and</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">(iii) Knox Class Action (Facilitation) Bill 2026; and</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">(d) divisions may take place after 1.30 pm until consideration of the bills has concluded.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">(2) Paragraph (1)(c) operate as a limitation of debate under standing order 142.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Question agreed to.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>NOTICES</title>
        <page.no>67</page.no>
        <type>NOTICES</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <debate.text>
        <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
          <p class="HPS-Debate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Debate">NOTICES</span>
          </p>
        </body>
      </debate.text>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Postponement</title>
          <page.no>67</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Postponement</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Normal">
                <span class="HPS-GeneralInterjecting">The Clerk:</span>  Postponement notifications have been lodged for the following:</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Small">Business of the Senate notices of motion nos 1 (Senator Payman) and 3 (Senator Collins) for today, till 17 September 2026.</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Small">General business notices of motion nos 550 (Senator McKim) and 725 (Senator Kovacic), till 17 September 2026.</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>67</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <debate.text>
        <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
          <p class="HPS-Debate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Debate">DOCUMENTS</span>
          </p>
        </body>
      </debate.text>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Gun Control</title>
          <page.no>67</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Gun Control</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>67</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Order for the Production of Documents</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>67</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Payman, Sen Fatima</name>
                <name.id>300707</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>AV</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="300707" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator PAYMAN</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Western Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Australia's Voice Whip</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">15:53</span>):  by leave—I move:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">That there be laid on the table by the Minister representing the Minister for Defence, by no later than 5 pm on Friday, 16 October 2026, copies of all ministerial submissions, briefing notes, meeting notes, emails and instant or other electronic messages held by the Minister for Defence, his office or the Department of Defence which relate to the incident referred to in question on notice no. 74 of the 2026-27 Budget estimates in which a shipment of firearms was delayed due to import permit changes.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Question agreed to.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
        </subdebate.2>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Senate Estimates</title>
          <page.no>68</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Senate Estimates</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>68</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Order for the Production of Documents</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>68</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Payman, Sen Fatima</name>
                <name.id>300707</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>AV</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="300707" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator PAYMAN</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Western Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Australia's Voice Whip</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">15:54</span>):  by leave— I move:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">That—</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(a) the Senate notes that, in response to a question on notice with portfolio question number SQ26-000696, asked during the 2026-27 Budget estimates and relating to the United States Department of State's planned 'freedom.gov' service, the Office of the eSafety Commissioner responded to 3 parts of the question by stating 'As the service is not operational the question is hypothetical and falls within the ambit of Senate standing order 73';</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(b) the Senate affirms that:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(i) standing order 73 does not apply to Senate estimates,</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(ii) there is no rule against the asking of hypothetical questions during Senate estimates, and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(iii) the only relevant rule is the standard test of relevance; and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(c) there be laid on the table by the Minister representing the Minister for Communications, by no later than 5 pm on Thursday, 24 September 2026:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(i) a new response to the question which does not refer to irrelevant standing orders of the Senate, and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(ii) copies of all correspondence between the Minister for Communications or her office, the Department of Infrastructure, Transport, Regional Development, Communications, Sport and the Arts and the Office of the eSafety Commissioner in relation to the preparation of the original response to the question, including draft responses.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Question agreed to.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
        </subdebate.2>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Australian Electoral Commission</title>
          <page.no>68</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Australian Electoral Commission</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>68</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Order for the Production of Documents</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>68</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Payman, Sen Fatima</name>
                <name.id>300707</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>AV</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="300707" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator PAYMAN</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Western Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Australia's Voice Whip</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">15:55</span>):  I move:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">That there be laid on the table by the Special Minister of State, by no later than 5 pm on Wednesday, 7 October 2026, copies of all documents held by the minister, his office or the Australian Electoral Commission that relate to:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(a) the awarding of the contract with contract notice ID CN4214225 (the contract), including all value for money assessments; and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(b) any variations to the contract.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Question agreed to.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
        </subdebate.2>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Australian Nuclear Science and Technology Organisation</title>
          <page.no>68</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Australian Nuclear Science and Technology Organisation</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>68</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Order for the Production of Documents</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>68</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Payman, Sen Fatima</name>
                <name.id>300707</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>AV</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="300707" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator PAYMAN</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Western Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Australia's Voice Whip</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">15:55</span>):  I move:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">That there be laid on the table by the Minister for Science, by no later than 5 pm on Friday, 16 October 2026, copies of all ministerial submissions, records of conversation, letters, briefing notes, meeting agendas, file notes, meeting invitations, meeting notes, meeting minutes, emails and instant or other electronic messages, created after 1 November 2025, relating to the Australian Nuclear Science and Technology Organisation's (ANSTO) Nuclear Medicine Manufacturing Program or the new Nuclear Medicine Manufacturing Facility between:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(a) any member of the ANSTO Executive (including the Chief Executive Officer (CEO)) and the Deputy Secretary, Science and Technology at the Department of Industry, Science and Resources (DISR);</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(b) the Chief Financial Officer (CFO) of ANSTO and the head of the Science Division in DISR;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(c) the CFO of ANSTO and any member of the Science Governance and Astronomy Branch in DISR;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(d) any member of the ANSTO Executive (including the CEO) and the ANSTO Board;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(e) any member of the ANSTO Executive (including the CEO) and the Minister for Science or his office; and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(f) the ANSTO Board and the Minister for Science or his office.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Question agreed to. </span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
        </subdebate.2>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Australian Prudential Regulation Authority</title>
          <page.no>68</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Australian Prudential Regulation Authority</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>68</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Order for the Production of Documents</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>68</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Kovacic, Sen Maria</name>
                <name.id>306168</name.id>
                <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="306168" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator KOVACIC</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">15:55</span>):  At the request of Senator Bragg, I move:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">That the Senate—</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(a) notes that:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(i) on 12 August 2026, the Senate agreed to order for the production of documents no. 573, relating to the impact of the Government's 5% deposit scheme on lending risk, requiring the Minister representing the Treasurer to comply by midday on Friday, 14 August 2026,</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(ii) on 17 August 2026, the Minister representing the Treasurer tabled an interim response from the Treasurer noting that the order was under active consideration and advising that additional time was required to comply with the order, and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(iii) the order has not been complied with; and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(b) requires the Minister representing the Treasurer to comply with the order by midday on Thursday, 17 September 2026.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Question agreed to.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
        </subdebate.2>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Department of Climate Change, Energy, the Environment and Water</title>
          <page.no>69</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Department of Climate Change, Energy, the Environment and Water</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>69</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Order for the Production of Documents</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>69</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Kovacic, Sen Maria</name>
                <name.id>306168</name.id>
                <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="306168" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator KOVACIC</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">15:56</span>):  At the request of Senator Henderson, I move:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">That there be laid on the table by the Minister representing the Minister for Climate Change and Energy, by no later than midday on Monday, 21 September 2026, the final iteration of a document titled 'NRMA Grit in the Gears September 2026', as received by the Department of Climate Change, Energy, the Environment and Water.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Line" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Line"> </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Question agreed to.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
        </subdebate.2>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>PFAS (per and polyfluoroalkyl substances) Select Committee</title>
          <page.no>69</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">PFAS (per and polyfluoroalkyl substances) Select Committee</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>69</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Order for the Production of Documents</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>69</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lambie, Sen Jacqui</name>
                <name.id>250026</name.id>
                <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
                <party>JLN</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="250026" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator LAMBIE</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Tasmania</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">15:57</span>):  I, and also on behalf of Senator Thorpe, move:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(1) That the Senate notes that:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      12pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(a) in accordance with Senate resolution 44(1), government responses to committee reports are required to be tabled within 3 months of a report being tabled;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      12pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(b) the Select Committee on PFAS (per and polyfluoroalkyl substances) tabled its final report on the extent, regulation and management of PFAS in November 2025; and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      12pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(c) a government response has not been tabled even though it was due by February 2026.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(2) That there be laid on the table by the Minister for the Environment and Water, by no later than midday on 30 September 2026, the outstanding government response to the final report of the Select Committee on PFAS on the extent, regulation and management of PFAS.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Question agreed to.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
        </subdebate.2>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Homes for Australia</title>
          <page.no>69</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Homes for Australia</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>69</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Order for the Production of Documents</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>69</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Pocock, Sen Barbara</name>
                <name.id>BFQ</name.id>
                <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
                <party>AG</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="BFQ" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator BARBARA POCOCK</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">15:57</span>):  I move:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">That the Senate—</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(a) notes that:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(i) on 2 July 2026, the Senate agreed to order for the production of documents no. 553, relating to the Homes for Australia plan, requiring the Minister representing the Minister for Housing to comply by no later than midday on Friday, 31 July 2026, and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(ii) the order has not been complied with; and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(b) requires the Minister representing the Minister for Housing to comply with the order by 10 am on Wednesday, 23 September 2026.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Line" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Line"> </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Question agreed to.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
        </subdebate.2>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Department of Home Affairs</title>
          <page.no>69</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Department of Home Affairs</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>69</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Order for the Production of Documents</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>69</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Pocock, Sen Barbara</name>
                <name.id>BFQ</name.id>
                <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
                <party>AG</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="BFQ" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator BARBARA POCOCK</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">15:58</span>):  I move:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">That there be laid on the table by the Minister representing the Minister for Home Affairs, by no later than 5 pm on 9 October 2026, for contract notice CN4254651:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(a) copies of all ministerial submissions, records of conversation, letters, briefing notes, meeting agendas, file notes, meeting invitations, meeting notes, meeting minutes, emails and instant or other electronic messages, calculations and modelling; and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(b) documentation regarding the contract's work description, a list of tasks given, any management of actual and perceived conflicts of interest, an index of all work products produced, the application of Article 5.3 of the World Health Organisation's Framework Convention on Tobacco Control to the Australian Public Service and the details of any meetings or correspondence between Deloitte and the Illicit Tobacco and E-cigarette Commissioner prior to the contract.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Line" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Line"> </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Question agreed to.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
        </subdebate.2>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Paid Practicum Subsidy</title>
          <page.no>70</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Paid Practicum Subsidy</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>70</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Order for the Production of Documents</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>70</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Payman, Sen Fatima</name>
                <name.id>300707</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>AV</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="300707" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator PAYMAN</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Western Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Australia's Voice Whip</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">15:59</span>):  I move:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">That there be laid on the table by the Minister for Early Childhood Education, by no later than 5 pm on Friday, 2 October 2026:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(a) copies of all ministerial submissions, briefing notes, meeting notes, meeting minutes, emails and instant or other electronic messages between the minister or her office and the Department of Education that provide an update on the paid practicum subsidy program for early childhood teachers and early childhood educators; and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(b) a document which outlines, to date, the number of applications for the paid practicum subsidy program received, processed, accepted and rejected by the Department of Education and, for the applications that were rejected, the number of applications grouped by reason(s) for rejection.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Question agreed to.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
        </subdebate.2>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Infrastructure</title>
          <page.no>70</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Infrastructure</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>70</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Order for the Production of Documents</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>70</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Kovacic, Sen Maria</name>
                <name.id>306168</name.id>
                <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="306168" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator KOVACIC</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">15:59</span>):  At the request of Senator Bragg, I move general business notices of motion Nos 744, 745, 746 and 747 together:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="text-align:center;direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">GENERAL BUSINESS NOTICE OF MOTION NO. 744</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">That there be laid on the table by the Minister representing the Minister for Infrastructure, Transport, Regional Development and Local Government, by no later than midday on Thursday, 8 October 2026, in relation to the Australian Government's additional commitment of $3.8 billion to the Suburban Rail Loop East project announced in the 2026-27 Budget:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(a) all documents provided by the Victorian Government to the Australian Government, the Department of Infrastructure, Transport, Regional Development, Communications, Sport and the Arts or Infrastructure Australia between 31 January 2025 and 12 May 2026 in response to, or for the purpose of satisfying, the recommendations contained in Infrastructure Australia's Suburban Rail Loop East business case evaluation report, dated 31 January 2025, including:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(i) an updated and detailed cost estimate for Suburban Rail Loop East and supporting station precinct interventions,</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(ii) a comprehensive funding and financing strategy with supporting quantitative analysis detailing how value capture will fund one third of the cost of Suburban Rail Loop East, and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(iii) analysis, including cost-benefit analysis, demonstrating the social, economic and environmental benefits attributable to Suburban Rail Loop East;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(b) all final assessments, reviews, reports or advice prepared by the department or Infrastructure Australia assessing whether the information referred to in paragraph (a) satisfied Infrastructure Australia's recommendations;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(c) all final advice provided to the Minister for Infrastructure, Transport, Regional Development and Local Government concerning whether Infrastructure Australia's recommendations had been satisfied before the decision to commit the additional $3.8 billion; and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(d) all correspondence between the Australian Government and the Victorian Government concerning whether the requirements or recommendations identified in Infrastructure Australia's 31 January 2025 evaluation had been satisfied.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="text-align:center;direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">GENERAL BUSINESS NOTICE OF MOTION NO. 745</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">That there be laid on the table by the Minister representing the Minister for Infrastructure, Transport, Regional Development and Local Government, by no later than midday on Thursday, 8 October 2026, in relation to the first funding round of the Thriving Suburbs Program:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(a) the final assessment spreadsheet, matrix or equivalent document recording, for each eligible application:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(i) the scores awarded against each assessment criterion by the Department of Infrastructure, Transport, Regional Development, Communications, Sport and the Arts,</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(ii) the total score and rating,</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(iii) the project's order of merit or ranking, and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(iv) the amount of Commonwealth funding sought;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(b) the final assessment pack provided to the multi-party parliamentary panel;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(c) the final recommendations, scores or rankings provided by the multi-party parliamentary panel to the department or minister;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(d) the final assessment pack, project rankings and funding recommendations provided by the department to the Minister for Infrastructure, Transport, Regional Development and Local Government as decision maker;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(e) documents recording the minister's final funding decisions, including documents recording the reasons for:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(i) approving any application that was not recommended for funding by the department,</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(ii) not approving any application that was recommended for funding by the department, or</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(iii) approving an application ranked below an application that did not receive funding; and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(f) any document, spreadsheet, database extract or analysis prepared or held by the department, the minister or the minister's office which identified an application or applicant by reference to:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(i) the federal electoral division in which the proposed project was located,</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(ii) the political party of the member representing that division,</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(iii) the electoral margin of that division, or</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(iv) whether that division was classified or described as marginal, target, held or not held by a particular political party.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="text-align:center;direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">GENERAL BUSINESS NOTICE OF MOTION NO. 746</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">That there be laid on the table by the Minister representing the Minister for Infrastructure, Transport, Regional Development and Local Government, by no later than midday on Thursday, 8 October 2026, in relation to the Australian Government's commitment of $220 million to the Circular Quay Renewal Program:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(a) any final or updated business case, revised business case, project proposal report, cost-benefit analysis or equivalent document provided by the New South Wales Government to the Australian Government in support of the</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">$220 million Commonwealth funding commitment;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(b) all final assessments, reports or advice prepared by the Department of Infrastructure, Transport, Regional Development, Communications, Sport and the Arts concerning:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(i) the scope and estimated cost of the Circular Quay Renewal Program,</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(ii) the economic benefits, costs and benefit-cost ratio of the project,</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(iii) the value for money of the proposed Commonwealth contribution, and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(iv) the Commonwealth funding contribution of $220 million;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(c) all final advice provided to the Minister for Infrastructure, Transport, Regional Development and Local Government concerning the decision to commit $220 million in Commonwealth funding to the project;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(d) all documents provided by the New South Wales Government and all final departmental assessments or advice, explaining or assessing the differences between:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(i) the Circular Quay Renewal proposal evaluated by Infrastructure Australia on 12 April 2022, with a P50 capital cost of $973 million and proposed Australian Government contribution of $486.5 million, and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(ii) the Circular Quay Renewal Program currently included in the Infrastructure Investment Program, with an estimated total project cost of $440 million and Australian Government contribution of</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      34pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">$220 million, including any changes to the project scope, design, staging, benefits, costs, delivery model or Commonwealth-funded components;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(e) all documents, including legal advice, departmental advice, assessments and correspondence with the New South Wales Government, concerning the project-specific condition contained in the Federation Funding Agreement Schedule on Land Transport Infrastructure Projects that the Australian Government contribution to the Circular Quay Renewal Program is 'subject to clarification of eligibility under the <span style="font-style:italic;">National Land Transport Act 2014</span>', including:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(i) the nature of the eligibility issue requiring clarification,</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(ii) which elements of the project were, or may have been, considered ineligible for Commonwealth funding under the Act,</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(iii) whether that eligibility issue has subsequently been resolved,</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(iv) if so, the date on which it was resolved and the statutory basis upon which the relevant expenditure was determined to be eligible, and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(f) the current Federation Funding Agreement schedule, implementation plan, project proposal report, milestone schedule or other agreement governing the provision of Commonwealth funding for the project.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="text-align:center;direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">GENERAL BUSINESS NOTICE OF MOTION NO. 747</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">That there be laid on the table by the Minister representing the Minister for Infrastructure, Transport, Regional Development and Local Government, by no later than midday on Thursday, 8 October 2026, in relation to the Australian Government's $60 million commitment to the project known as Expanding Perth's Ferry Network:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(a) any final business case, feasibility study, cost-benefit analysis, patronage or demand modelling, cost estimate, route options analysis or terminal options analysis provided to the Australian Government by the Western Australian Government in relation to the project;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(b) all final assessments, reports or advice prepared by the Department of Infrastructure, Transport, Regional Development, Communications, Sport and the Arts concerning:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(i) the need for and value for money of the project,</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(ii) projected patronage or demand,</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(iii) the proposed Applecross and University of Western Australia/Matilda Bay terminal locations,</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(iv) the cost and scope of the project,</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(v) the Australian Government's $50 million contribution towards the two new terminals, and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(vi) the Australian Government's $10 million contribution towards planning and design for a future extension of the ferry network;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(c) all final briefing material provided to the Minister for Infrastructure, Transport, Regional Development and Local Government concerning the decision to provide Commonwealth funding for the project; and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(d) any executed Federation Funding Agreement schedule, project agreement, implementation plan, milestone schedule or other instrument governing the provision or payment of the Australian Government's $60 million contribution.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Question agreed to.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
        </subdebate.2>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Maritime Industry</title>
          <page.no>72</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Maritime Industry</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>72</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Order for the Production of Documents</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>72</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Shoebridge, Sen David</name>
                <name.id>169119</name.id>
                <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                <party>AG</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span style="font-style:italic;">
                    </span>
                    <a href="169119" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator SHOEBRIDGE</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">16:00</span>):  I move:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">That there be laid on the table by the Minister representing the Minister for Infrastructure, Transport, Regional Development and Local Government, by 11 am on Thursday, 17 September 2026, all documents relating to:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(a) any departmental or ministerial advice on whether to extend the cruise ship exemption under the <span style="font-style:italic;">Coastal Trading (Revitalising Australian Shipping) Act 2012 </span>(the Act) beyond 31 December 2026;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(b) the 2023 review into the Act, including its terms of reference and any draft or final findings; and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(c) correspondence since 1 January 2024 between the department or the minister's office and Carnival Australia, Carnival Corporation or the Cruise Lines International Association concerning the exemption.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Line" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Line"> </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Question agreed to.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
        </subdebate.2>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Aged Care</title>
          <page.no>72</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Aged Care</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>72</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Order for the Production of Documents</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>72</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Kovacic, Sen Maria</name>
                <name.id>306168</name.id>
                <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="306168" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator KOVACIC</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">16:01</span>):  At the request of Senator Ruston, I move:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">That the Senate—</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(a) notes that:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      34pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(i) on 9 September 2026, the Senate agreed to an order for the production of documents, order no. 666, requiring the Minister for Aged Care and Seniors to provide documents relating to the number of people who died while on the National Priority System waiting list for a Support at Home or Home Care package during 2025-26 financial year,</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      34pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(ii) in response to the order, the minister advised that the scope of the searches required to comply with the order was expansive and that it was not possible to achieve compliance within the timeframe, but did not provide a date by which the documents would be produced, and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      34pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(iii) the minister further advised that the data sought by the order is still undergoing validation, despite the order not requiring the provision of validated data;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(b) notes that the order has not been complied with; and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(c) requires the Minister representing the Minister for Aged Care and Seniors to attend the Senate on Thursday, 17 September 2026 at the conclusion of private senators' time to provide an explanation no more than 5 minutes of the failure to comply with the order, and that:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      34pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(i) any senator may move to take note of the explanation,</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      34pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(ii) any such motion may be debated for no longer than 30 minutes and shall have precedence over all business until determined, and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      34pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(iii) senators may speak for not more than 5 minutes each.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Line" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Line"> </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Question agreed to.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
        </subdebate.2>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>72</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <debate.text>
        <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
          <p class="HPS-Debate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Debate">COMMITTEES</span>
          </p>
        </body>
      </debate.text>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport References Committee</title>
          <page.no>72</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <a href="35" type="Committee">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport References Committee</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>Reference</title>
            <page.no>72</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Reference</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>72</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Kovacic, Sen Maria</name>
                <name.id>306168</name.id>
                <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="306168" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator KOVACIC</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">16:02</span>):  At the request of Senator McDonald, I move:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">That the following matters be referred to the Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport References Committee for inquiry and report by 31 March 2027:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(a) the design, objectives and administration of the Fuel and Fertiliser Security Facility;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(b) the eligibility criteria and assessment processes used to determine which fertiliser companies, suppliers and importers receive government support;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(c) the nature, value and commercial terms of government guarantees, underwriting and other financial assistance provided under the facility;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(d) the financial risks and potential liabilities to Australian taxpayers, including the adequacy of risk management and safeguards;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(e) the impact of the facility on competition and market conditions in the Australian fertiliser industry, including whether government support has advantaged particular market participants or disadvantaged non-participating suppliers and importers;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(f) the impact of the facility on fertiliser prices, supply and availability for Australian farmers, including whether the benefits of government support are being passed through to producers;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(g) the transparency and accountability of the facility, including the disclosure of participating entities, the basis on which support was provided, government financial exposure and the outcomes achieved;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(h) the effectiveness of the facility in strengthening Australia's long-term fertiliser security and supply chain resilience, including whether the design of the facility has created unintended market or competition consequences, and whether alternative policy approaches could achieve these objectives more effectively or at lower cost; and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(i) any other related matters.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                    </a>  The question is business of the Senate notice of motion No. 2, standing in the name of Senator McDonald, be agreed to.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal"> </span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
            <interjection>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>73</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                  <name.id>112096</name.id>
                  <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                  <party>ALP</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </interjection>
          </speech>
          <division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [16:07]<br />(The President—Senator Lines) </p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>27</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Antic, A.</name>
                  <name>Babet, R. D.</name>
                  <name>Bell, S.</name>
                  <name>Blyth, L.</name>
                  <name>Bragg, A. J.</name>
                  <name>Cadell, R. P.</name>
                  <name>Canavan, M. J.</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                  <name>Collins, J.</name>
                  <name>Hanson, P. L.</name>
                  <name>Henderson, S. M.</name>
                  <name>Hume, J.</name>
                  <name>Kovacic, M. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J.</name>
                  <name>McDonald, S. E.</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J. A.</name>
                  <name>McLachlan, A. L.</name>
                  <name>Nampijinpa Price, J. S.</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, M. A.</name>
                  <name>Payman, F.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M. I.</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A.</name>
                  <name>Sharma, D. N.</name>
                  <name>Smith, D. A.</name>
                  <name>Thorpe, L. A.</name>
                  <name>Whitten, T.</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>31</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                  <name>Ananda-Rajah, M.</name>
                  <name>Bleyer, V. E.</name>
                  <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A. D.</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                  <name>Darmanin, L.</name>
                  <name>Dolega, J.</name>
                  <name>Dowling, R.</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                  <name>Gallagher, K. R.</name>
                  <name>Ghosh, V.</name>
                  <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                  <name>Hodgins-May, S.</name>
                  <name>Lines, S.</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M.</name>
                  <name>McKim, N. J.</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                  <name>Polley, H.</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A. V. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Shoebridge, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                  <name>Walker, C.</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                  <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                  <name>Whiteaker, E.</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>9</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Brockman, W. E.</name>
                  <name>Stewart, J. N. A.</name>
                  <name>Cash, M. C.</name>
                  <name>Wong, P.</name>
                  <name>Chandler, C.</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D. E.</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                  <name>Watt, M. P.</name>
                  <name>Gatenby, C.</name>
                  <name>Tyrrell, T. M.</name>
                  <name>Liddle, K. J.</name>
                  <name>Cox, D.</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B. G.</name>
                  <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                  <name>Paterson, J. W.</name>
                  <name>Grogan, K.</name>
                  <name>Scarr, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Mulholland, C.</name>
                </names>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived. </p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division>
        </subdebate.2>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>74</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <debate.text>
        <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
          <p class="HPS-Debate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Debate">DOCUMENTS</span>
          </p>
        </body>
      </debate.text>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Improved Native Forest Management</title>
          <page.no>74</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Improved Native Forest Management</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>74</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Order for the Production of Documents</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>74</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Kovacic, Sen Maria</name>
                <name.id>306168</name.id>
                <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="306168" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator KOVACIC</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">16:09</span>):  At the request of Senator Cadell, I move:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">That there be laid on the table by the Minister representing the Minister for Climate Change and Energy, by no later than midday on Monday, 12 October 2026, copies of any documents created between 1 July 2026 and the date of this order held by the Department of Climate Change, Energy, the Environment and Water or the minister or the minister's office, being:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(a) each final ministerial brief submitted by the Department of Climate Change, Energy, the Environment and Water to the Minister for Climate Change and Energy concerning the improved native forest management in multiple-use public native forests method (the INFM method); and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Line" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Line"> </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(b) each final question time brief submitted by the department to the minister or the minister's office concerning the INFM method.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                    </a>  The question is that general business notice of motion No. 652, standing in the name of Senator Cadell, be agreed to.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal"> </span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
            <interjection>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>74</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                  <name.id>112096</name.id>
                  <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                  <party>ALP</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </interjection>
          </speech>
          <division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [16:10]<br />(The President—Senator Lines) </p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>26</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Antic, A.</name>
                  <name>Babet, R. D.</name>
                  <name>Bell, S.</name>
                  <name>Blyth, L.</name>
                  <name>Bragg, A. J.</name>
                  <name>Cadell, R. P.</name>
                  <name>Canavan, M. J.</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                  <name>Collins, J.</name>
                  <name>Hanson, P. L.</name>
                  <name>Henderson, S. M.</name>
                  <name>Hume, J.</name>
                  <name>Kovacic, M. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J.</name>
                  <name>McDonald, S. E.</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B. G.</name>
                  <name>McLachlan, A. L.</name>
                  <name>Nampijinpa Price, J. S.</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, M. A.</name>
                  <name>Payman, F.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M. I.</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A.</name>
                  <name>Sharma, D. N.</name>
                  <name>Smith, D. A.</name>
                  <name>Whitten, T.</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>31</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                  <name>Ananda-Rajah, M.</name>
                  <name>Bleyer, V. E.</name>
                  <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A. D.</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                  <name>Darmanin, L.</name>
                  <name>Dolega, J.</name>
                  <name>Dowling, R.</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                  <name>Gallagher, K. R.</name>
                  <name>Ghosh, V.</name>
                  <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                  <name>Hodgins-May, S.</name>
                  <name>Lines, S.</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M.</name>
                  <name>McKim, N. J.</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                  <name>Polley, H.</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A. V. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Shoebridge, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                  <name>Walker, C.</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                  <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                  <name>Whiteaker, E.</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>9</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Brockman, W. E.</name>
                  <name>Stewart, J. N. A.</name>
                  <name>Cash, M. C.</name>
                  <name>Wong, P.</name>
                  <name>Chandler, C.</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D. E.</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                  <name>Watt, M. P.</name>
                  <name>Gatenby, C.</name>
                  <name>Tyrrell, T. M.</name>
                  <name>Liddle, K. J.</name>
                  <name>Cox, D.</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                  <name>Paterson, J. W.</name>
                  <name>Grogan, K.</name>
                  <name>Scarr, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Mulholland, C.</name>
                </names>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division>
        </subdebate.2>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>75</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <debate.text>
        <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
          <p class="HPS-Debate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Debate">COMMITTEES</span>
          </p>
        </body>
      </debate.text>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Artificial Intelligence Joint Select Committee</title>
          <page.no>75</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <a href="24203" type="Committee">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Artificial Intelligence Joint Select Committee</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>Appointment</title>
            <page.no>75</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Appointment</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>75</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Waters, Sen Larissa</name>
                <name.id>192970</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>AG</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="192970" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator WATERS</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Leader of the Australian Greens</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">16:12</span>):  I, and also on behalf of Senator David Pocock, move:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(1) That paragraph (3) of the resolution of appointment of the Joint Select Committee on Artificial Intelligence, relating to membership of the committee, be amended as follows:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Omit "twelve members", substitute "thirteen members".</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Omit "one Senator to be nominated by any minority group or independent Senator", substitute "two Senators to be nominated by any minority group or independent Senator".</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(2) That this resolution be transmitted to the House of Representatives for concurrence.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                    </a>  The question is that general business notice of motion No. 720, standing in the names of Senator Waters and Senator David Pocock, be agreed to.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal"> </span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
            <interjection>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>75</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                  <name.id>112096</name.id>
                  <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                  <party>ALP</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </interjection>
          </speech>
          <division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [16:14]<br />(The President—Senator Lines) </p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>17</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                  <name>Bell, S.</name>
                  <name>Bleyer, V. E.</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                  <name>Hodgins-May, S.</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J.</name>
                  <name>McKim, N. J. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Payman, F.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M. I.</name>
                  <name>Shoebridge, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Thorpe, L. A.</name>
                  <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                  <name>Whitten, T.</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>26</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Ananda-Rajah, M.</name>
                  <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A. D.</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                  <name>Darmanin, L.</name>
                  <name>Dolega, J.</name>
                  <name>Dowling, R.</name>
                  <name>Gallagher, K. R.</name>
                  <name>Ghosh, V.</name>
                  <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                  <name>Hume, J.</name>
                  <name>Kovacic, M. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Lines, S.</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M.</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, M. A.</name>
                  <name>Polley, H.</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A.</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                  <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                  <name>Walker, C.</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                  <name>Whiteaker, E.</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names />
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived. </p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division>
        </subdebate.2>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>Appointment</title>
            <page.no>76</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Appointment</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>76</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Waters, Sen Larissa</name>
                <name.id>192970</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>AG</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="192970" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator WATERS</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Leader of the Australian Greens</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">16:15</span>):  I, and also on behalf of Senator Pocock, move:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(1) That the resolution of appointment of the Joint Select Committee on Artificial Intelligence be amended to insert after paragraph (3):</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(3A) participating members may be appointed to the committee on the nomination, in the House of Representatives, of the Government or Opposition Whips or any minority group or independent Member, and, in the Senate, of the Leader of the Government or Opposition, or any minority group or independent Senator, and a participating member:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(a) shall be taken to be a member of the committee for the purposes of forming a quorum; and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(b) may participate in hearings of evidence and deliberations of the committee and have all rights of a committee member except that a participating member may not vote on any question before the committee;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(2) That this resolution be transmitted to the House of Representatives for concurrence.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                    </a>  The question is that general business notice of motion No. 721, standing in the name of Senators Waters and David Pocock, be agreed to.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal"> </span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
            <interjection>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>76</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                  <name.id>112096</name.id>
                  <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                  <party>ALP</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </interjection>
          </speech>
          <division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [16:17]<br />(The President—Senator Lines)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>17</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                  <name>Bell, S.</name>
                  <name>Bleyer, V. E.</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                  <name>Hodgins-May, S.</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J.</name>
                  <name>McKim, N. J. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Payman, F.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M. I.</name>
                  <name>Shoebridge, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Thorpe, L. A.</name>
                  <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                  <name>Whitten, T.</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>25</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Ananda-Rajah, M.</name>
                  <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A. D.</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                  <name>Darmanin, L.</name>
                  <name>Dolega, J.</name>
                  <name>Dowling, R.</name>
                  <name>Gallagher, K. R.</name>
                  <name>Ghosh, V.</name>
                  <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                  <name>Hume, J.</name>
                  <name>Kovacic, M. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Lines, S.</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M.</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, M. A.</name>
                  <name>Polley, H.</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                  <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                  <name>Walker, C.</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                  <name>Whiteaker, E.</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names />
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division>
        </subdebate.2>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>NOTICES</title>
        <page.no>76</page.no>
        <type>NOTICES</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <debate.text>
        <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
          <p class="HPS-Debate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Debate">NOTICES</span>
          </p>
        </body>
      </debate.text>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Postponement</title>
          <page.no>76</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Postponement</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>76</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Kovacic, Sen Maria</name>
              <name.id>306168</name.id>
              <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
              <party>LP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="306168" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator KOVACIC</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">16:18</span>):  by leave—I move:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">That general business notice of motion No. 730 standing in the name of Senator Bragg for today, relating to the order for the production of documents No. 546, be postponed until Monday 12 October.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Question agreed to.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>76</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Kovacic, Sen Maria</name>
              <name.id>306168</name.id>
              <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
              <party>LP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="306168" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator KOVACIC</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">16:19</span>):  by leave—I move:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">That general business notice of motion No. 732 standing in the name of Senator Bragg for today, relating to the order for the production of documents No. 565, be postponed until Monday 12 October.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Question agreed to.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>77</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <debate.text>
        <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
          <p class="HPS-Debate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Debate">DOCUMENTS</span>
          </p>
        </body>
      </debate.text>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>North to East Australia Pipeline</title>
          <page.no>77</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">North to East Australia Pipeline</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>77</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Order for the Production of Documents</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>77</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Thorpe, Sen Lidia</name>
                <name.id>280304</name.id>
                <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
                <party>IND</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="280304" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator THORPE</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Victoria</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Independent VIC Whip</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">16:19</span>):  I move:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">That there be laid on the table by the Minister representing the Minister for Resources, by no later than midday on Monday, 12 October 2026:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(a) all ministerial submissions and briefs on the proposed North to East Australian Pipeline project (NEAP);</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(b) all records of meetings, calls or correspondence between the minister or her office and the Northern Territory Government or any Northern Territory departments regarding the proposed NEAP;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(c) all records of meetings, calls or correspondence between the Department of Industry, Science and Resources (DISR) and the Northern Territory Government or any Northern Territory departments regarding the proposed NEAP;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(d) all records of meetings, calls or correspondence between the minister or her office and the APA Group;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(e) all records of meetings, calls or correspondence between the DISR and the APA Group;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(f) all records of meetings, calls or correspondence between the minister or her office and Santos;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(g) all records of meetings, calls or correspondence between the DISR and Santos; and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(h) any assessment by or for DISR on the cost of the NEAP and potential funding mechanisms.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Line" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Line"> </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                    </a>  The question is that general business notice of motion No. 735 standing in the name of Senator Thorpe be agreed to.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal"> </span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
            <interjection>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>77</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                  <name.id>112096</name.id>
                  <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                  <party>ALP</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </interjection>
          </speech>
          <division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [16:21]<br />(The President—Senator Lines) </p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>18</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                  <name>Babet, R. D.</name>
                  <name>Bell, S.</name>
                  <name>Bleyer, V. E.</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                  <name>Hodgins-May, S.</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J.</name>
                  <name>McKim, N. J. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Payman, F.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M. I.</name>
                  <name>Shoebridge, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Thorpe, L. A.</name>
                  <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                  <name>Whitten, T.</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>25</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Ananda-Rajah, M.</name>
                  <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A. D.</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                  <name>Darmanin, L.</name>
                  <name>Dolega, J.</name>
                  <name>Dowling, R.</name>
                  <name>Gallagher, K. R.</name>
                  <name>Ghosh, V.</name>
                  <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                  <name>Hume, J.</name>
                  <name>Kovacic, M. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Lines, S.</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M.</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, M. A.</name>
                  <name>Polley, H.</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                  <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                  <name>Walker, C.</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                  <name>Whiteaker, E.</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names />
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived. </p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division>
        </subdebate.2>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Middle East</title>
          <page.no>77</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Middle East</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>77</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Order for the Production of Documents</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>77</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Faruqi, Sen Mehreen</name>
                <name.id>250362</name.id>
                <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                <party>AG</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="250362" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator FARUQI</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Deputy Leader of the Australian Greens</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">16:22</span>):  I move:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">That there be laid on the table by the Minister for Foreign Affairs, by no later than 9.30 am on Monday, 12 October 2026, all ministerial submissions, letters, briefing notes, meeting agendas, file notes, meeting invitations, meeting notes, meeting minutes, emails and instant or other electronic messages, documents or correspondence from 15 September 2025 to 15 September 2026 between the Minister for Foreign Affairs and the Embassy of Israel in Australia, including the Israeli Ambassador to Australia.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Line" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Line"> </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                    </a>  The question is that general business notice of motion No. 738 standing in the name of Senator Faruqi be agreed to.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal"> </span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
            <interjection>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>78</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                  <name.id>112096</name.id>
                  <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                  <party>ALP</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </interjection>
          </speech>
          <division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [16:24]<br />(The President—Senator Lines) </p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>13</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                  <name>Bleyer, V. E.</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                  <name>Hodgins-May, S.</name>
                  <name>McKim, N. J. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Payman, F.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                  <name>Shoebridge, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Thorpe, L. A.</name>
                  <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>27</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Ananda-Rajah, M.</name>
                  <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A. D.</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                  <name>Darmanin, L.</name>
                  <name>Dolega, J.</name>
                  <name>Dowling, R.</name>
                  <name>Gallagher, K. R.</name>
                  <name>Ghosh, V.</name>
                  <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                  <name>Hume, J.</name>
                  <name>Kovacic, M. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J.</name>
                  <name>Lines, S.</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M.</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B. G.</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, M. A.</name>
                  <name>Polley, H.</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                  <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                  <name>Walker, C.</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                  <name>Whiteaker, E.</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names />
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived. </p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division>
        </subdebate.2>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>ASECA Judicial Seminar</title>
          <page.no>78</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">ASECA Judicial Seminar</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>78</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Order for the Production of Documents</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>78</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Faruqi, Sen Mehreen</name>
                <name.id>250362</name.id>
                <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                <party>AG</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="250362" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator FARUQI</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Deputy Leader of the Australian Greens</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">16:26</span>):  I move:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">That there be laid on the table by the Minister for Foreign Affairs, by no later than 9.30 am on Monday, 12 October 2026, the presentation, attendance list, recording of the Zoom event and PowerPoint slides delivered by the Special Envoy to Combat Antisemitism at the New South Wales Judicial Seminar event on 5 June 2025.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                    </a>  The question is that general business notice of motion No. 739, standing in the name of Senator Faruqi, be agreed to.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal"> </span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
            <interjection>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>78</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                  <name.id>112096</name.id>
                  <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                  <party>ALP</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </interjection>
          </speech>
          <division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [16:27]<br />(The President—Senator Lines)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>12</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                  <name>Bleyer, V. E.</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                  <name>Hodgins-May, S.</name>
                  <name>McKim, N. J. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Payman, F.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                  <name>Shoebridge, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>28</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Ananda-Rajah, M.</name>
                  <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A. D.</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                  <name>Darmanin, L.</name>
                  <name>Dolega, J.</name>
                  <name>Dowling, R.</name>
                  <name>Gallagher, K. R.</name>
                  <name>Ghosh, V.</name>
                  <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                  <name>Hume, J.</name>
                  <name>Kovacic, M. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J.</name>
                  <name>Lines, S.</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M.</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B. G.</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, M. A.</name>
                  <name>Polley, H.</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                  <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                  <name>Stewart, J. N. A.</name>
                  <name>Walker, C.</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                  <name>Whiteaker, E.</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names />
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division>
        </subdebate.2>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Census</title>
          <page.no>79</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Census</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>79</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Order for the Production of Documents</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>79</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Kovacic, Sen Maria</name>
                <name.id>306168</name.id>
                <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="306168" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator KOVACIC</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">16:28</span>):  At the request of Senator Dean Smith, I move:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">That there be laid on the table by the Minister representing the Treasurer, by no later than midday on Monday, 12 October 2026, copies of all written or digital documents, correspondence, briefing notes, file notes, meeting notes, meeting agendas or minutes or other records of interaction from 12 May to 11 August 2026, between the Australian Bureau of Statistics and the Treasurer or his office or the Assistant Minister for Productivity, Competition, Charities and Treasury or his office regarding the 2026 Census.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                    </a>  The question is that general business notice of motion No. 740, standing in the name of Senator Dean Smith, be agreed to.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal"> </span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
            <interjection>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>79</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                  <name.id>112096</name.id>
                  <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                  <party>ALP</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </interjection>
          </speech>
          <division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [16:33]<br />(The President—Senator Lines)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>23</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Antic, A.</name>
                  <name>Babet, R. D.</name>
                  <name>Bell, S.</name>
                  <name>Blyth, L.</name>
                  <name>Bragg, A. J.</name>
                  <name>Cadell, R. P.</name>
                  <name>Canavan, M. J.</name>
                  <name>Collins, J.</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                  <name>Henderson, S. M.</name>
                  <name>Hume, J.</name>
                  <name>Kovacic, M. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B. G.</name>
                  <name>McLachlan, A. L.</name>
                  <name>Nampijinpa Price, J. S.</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, M. A.</name>
                  <name>Payman, F.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M. I.</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A.</name>
                  <name>Sharma, D. N.</name>
                  <name>Smith, D. A.</name>
                  <name>Whitten, T.</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>30</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                  <name>Ananda-Rajah, M.</name>
                  <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                  <name>Bleyer, V. E.</name>
                  <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A. D.</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                  <name>Darmanin, L.</name>
                  <name>Dolega, J.</name>
                  <name>Dowling, R.</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                  <name>Gallagher, K. R.</name>
                  <name>Ghosh, V.</name>
                  <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                  <name>Hodgins-May, S.</name>
                  <name>Lines, S.</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                  <name>McKim, N. J.</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                  <name>Polley, H.</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A. V. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Shoebridge, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                  <name>Stewart, J. N. A.</name>
                  <name>Walker, C.</name>
                  <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                  <name>Whiteaker, E.</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>10</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Brockman, W. E.</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M.</name>
                  <name>Cash, M. C.</name>
                  <name>Wong, P.</name>
                  <name>Chandler, C.</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D. E.</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                  <name>Cox, D.</name>
                  <name>Gatenby, C.</name>
                  <name>Tyrrell, T. M.</name>
                  <name>Liddle, K. J.</name>
                  <name>Mulholland, C.</name>
                  <name>McDonald, S. E.</name>
                  <name>Watt, M. P.</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Grogan, K.</name>
                  <name>Paterson, J. W.</name>
                  <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                  <name>Scarr, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                </names>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division>
        </subdebate.2>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Climate Change</title>
          <page.no>80</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Climate Change</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>80</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Order for the Production of Documents</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>80</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Waters, Sen Larissa</name>
                <name.id>192970</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>AG</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="192970" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator WATERS</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Leader of the Australian Greens</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">16:35</span>):  I move:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">That there be laid on the table by the Minister representing the Minister for Climate Change and Energy, by no later than 4 pm on Friday, 2 October 2026, the first offset report, the two most recent offset reports, audit reports and gateway reviews for each of the following Human Induced Regeneration projects:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(1) ERF101557—Urana Regeneration Project.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(2) EOP100275—Arbon—Tooligie—Human Induced Regeneration.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(3) ERF101718—Corrie Downs Regeneration Project.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(4) EOP101133—Delta Regeneration Project.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(5) ERF101228—Poon Boon Regeneration Project.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(6) EOP100570—Kinchela Regeneration Project.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(7) ERF101251—Congararra Regeneration Project.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(8) EOP100992—Galambo Regeneration Project.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(9) ERF101525—Ularunda Regeneration Project.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(10) ERF101323—Tambua Regeneration Project.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(11) EOP101263—Buckambool Human-Induced Regeneration Project.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(12) ERF101647—Aqua Downs Station Regeneration Project.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(13) ERF101517—Wapweelah Regeneration Project.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(14) EOP101098—Mullagalah Regeneration Project.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(15) ERF101812—Longdowns Regeneration Project.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(16) EOP100548—Runnymede Regeneration Project.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(17) ERF101865—Joonderee and Elmina Regeneration Project.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(18) ERF101651—Yarrawonga Cobar Regeneration Project.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(19) EOP101037—Lindermans Regeneration Project.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(20) ERF101511—Jandra/Nulty Regeneration Project.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(21) ERF101971—Cougar Regeneration Project.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(22) EOP101114—Bora Regeneration Project.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(23) EOP101101—Mulgaroon Forest Regeneration Project.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(24) EOP101115—Byrock Station Regrowth Project.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(25) ERF101698—Darling River Eco Corridor 16.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(26) ERF101395—Morton Plains Human-Induced Regeneration Project.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(27) ERF101492—Inverness Human-Induced Regeneration Project.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(28) ERF101654—Richmond Regeneration Project.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(29) ERF101671—North West Regeneration Project.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(30) ERF101319—Kaleno Human-Induced Regeneration Project.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(31) EOP101140—El Trune Regrowth Project.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(32) ERF101280—Lynwood Human-Induced Regeneration Project.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(33) ERF101626—Curragh Regeneration Project.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(34) ERF101706—Warana Regeneration Project.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(35) ERF101437—Stanbert Regeneration Project.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(36) ERF101630—Gambolalley Regeneration Project.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(37) ERF102171—Woodstock Regeneration Project.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(38) ERF101634—Regeneration Wongalee Mervyndale and Rundalua Forest Project.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(39) ERF101545—Glengeera Forest Regeneration Project.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(40) ERF101674—Boonora Downs Human-Induced Regeneration Project.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(41) ERF101326—Wancobra Regeneration Project.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(42) ERF101494—Berangabah Human-Induced Regeneration Project.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(43) ERF103313—Darling River Eco Corridor 7.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(44) ERF101269—Curranyalpa Human-Induced Regeneration Project.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(45) ERF101318—Clovelly Regeneration Project.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(46) ERF109630—Mullagalah II Regeneration Project.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(47) EOP101262—Myroolia Human-Induced Regeneration Project.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(48) ERF121619—Rocky Station Human-Induced Regeneration Project.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(49) ERF101788—Mayfield Regeneration Project.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(50) ERF101721—Kenilworth Regrowth Project.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(51) ERF115336—Initiative Site Catchment Conservation Alliance—Great Barrier Reef #3.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(52) ERF159425—Initiative Site Western Australian Rangelands Conservation #15.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(53) ERF121660—Woodleigh Station Regeneration Project.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(54) ERF126426—Coodardy Station Regeneration Project.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(55) ERF158562—Western Australia Rangelands Conservation Initiative Site #7.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(56) ERF166768—Meka Station.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(57) ERF167183—WA Carbon Cattle Conservation Project #071921.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(58) ERF168138—Buckleboo Station.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(59) ERF173343—NT Cattle Conservation HIR Project #02142022 IDR.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(60) ERF180122—SA Cattle Conservation HIR Project #01112022 TP.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>81</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">McKenzie, Sen Bridget</name>
                <name.id>207825</name.id>
                <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
                <party>NATS</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="207825" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator McKENZIE</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Victoria</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Leader of the Nationals in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">16:35</span>):  I seek leave to make a short statement.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                    </a>  Leave is granted for one minute.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="207825" type="MemberContinuation">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator McKENZIE:</span>
                    </a>  The Nationals would request that, in complying with this order, the government respect, as usual, the personal and private information involved in these grant programs.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                    </a>  The question is that general business notice of motion No. 748, standing in the name of Senator Waters, be agreed to.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal"> </span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
            <interjection>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>81</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                  <name.id>112096</name.id>
                  <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                  <party>ALP</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </interjection>
            <continue>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>81</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">McKenzie, Sen Bridget</name>
                  <name.id>207825</name.id>
                  <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
                  <party>NATS</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </continue>
            <interjection>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>81</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                  <name.id>112096</name.id>
                  <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                  <party>ALP</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </interjection>
          </speech>
          <division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [16:37]<br />(The President—Senator Lines)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>16</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                  <name>Babet, R. D.</name>
                  <name>Bell, S.</name>
                  <name>Bleyer, V. E.</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                  <name>Hodgins-May, S.</name>
                  <name>McKim, N. J. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Payman, F.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M. I.</name>
                  <name>Shoebridge, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                  <name>Whitten, T.</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>23</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Ananda-Rajah, M.</name>
                  <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                  <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A. D.</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                  <name>Darmanin, L.</name>
                  <name>Dolega, J.</name>
                  <name>Dowling, R.</name>
                  <name>Gallagher, K. R.</name>
                  <name>Ghosh, V.</name>
                  <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                  <name>Kovacic, M. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Lines, S.</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B. G.</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, M. A.</name>
                  <name>Polley, H.</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                  <name>Stewart, J. N. A.</name>
                  <name>Walker, C.</name>
                  <name>Whiteaker, E.</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names />
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division>
        </subdebate.2>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Maritime Industry</title>
          <page.no>82</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Maritime Industry</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>82</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Order for the Production of Documents</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>82</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">O'Sullivan, Sen Matt</name>
                <name.id>283585</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="283585" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator O'SULLIVAN</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Western Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Deputy Manager of Opposition Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">16:38</span>):  I seek leave to have general business notice of motion No. 749 recommitted. I made a mistake in the directions that I gave to my party, so I ask that it be recommitted.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Leave granted.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                    </a>  The question is that general business notice of motion No. 749 standing in the name of Senator Shoebridge be agreed to.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal"> </span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
            <interjection>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>82</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                  <name.id>112096</name.id>
                  <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                  <party>ALP</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </interjection>
          </speech>
          <division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [16:40]<br />(The President—Senator Lines)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>16</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                  <name>Babet, R. D.</name>
                  <name>Bell, S.</name>
                  <name>Bleyer, V. E.</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                  <name>Hodgins-May, S.</name>
                  <name>McKim, N. J. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Payman, F.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M. I.</name>
                  <name>Shoebridge, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                  <name>Whitten, T.</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>23</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Ananda-Rajah, M.</name>
                  <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                  <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A. D.</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                  <name>Darmanin, L.</name>
                  <name>Dolega, J.</name>
                  <name>Dowling, R.</name>
                  <name>Gallagher, K. R.</name>
                  <name>Ghosh, V.</name>
                  <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                  <name>Kovacic, M. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Lines, S.</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                  <name>McLachlan, A. L.</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, M. A.</name>
                  <name>Polley, H.</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                  <name>Stewart, J. N. A.</name>
                  <name>Walker, C.</name>
                  <name>Whiteaker, E.</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names />
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division>
        </subdebate.2>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Personal Information and Privacy</title>
          <page.no>82</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Personal Information and Privacy</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>82</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Order for the Production of Documents</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>82</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Shoebridge, Sen David</name>
                <name.id>169119</name.id>
                <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                <party>AG</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="169119" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator SHOEBRIDGE</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">16:41</span>):  I move:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">That the Senate—</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(a) notes that:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      34pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(i) on 2 July 2026, the Senate agreed to order for the production of documents no. 559, relating to relating to documents held by the Office of the Australian Information Commissioner (OAIC), with a compliance date of no later than 28 July 2026,</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      34pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(ii) on 30 July 2026, the Minister representing the Attorney-General provided a response from the Attorney-General and on 17 August 2026, the Senate agreed to an additional order:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      45pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(A) rejecting the public interest immunity claims raised by the Attorney-General in the response, and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      45pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(B) requiring the Minister representing the Attorney-General to produce the documents set out in paragraphs (a) and (e) of the original order, subject only to the redaction of information that may be reasonably capable of causing harm to an individual, by 5 pm on 18 August 2026;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      34pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(iii) on 25 August 2026, the Minister representing the Attorney-General provided an additional letter from the Attorney-General:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      45pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(A) maintaining the public interest immunity claims raised in the 30 July 2026 letter, and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      45pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(B) withholding redacted versions of the documents ordered in the additional order, also on the grounds of legal professional privilege and that disclosure of the documents would unfairly influence the conduct of legal proceedings, and again citing the practice of successive Australian Governments not to disclose privileged legal advice;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      34pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(iv) the order has still not been complied with,</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(b) has already rejected the public interest immunity claims raised by the Attorney-General in relation to the documents ordered in the original order, noting that the Attorney-General has raised the same public interest immunity claims in respect of the documents ordered in the additional order;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(c) again rejects the public interest immunity claims raised by the Attorney General in the 25 August 2026 letter, noting that:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      34pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(i) as outlined in Odgers' Australian Senate Practice, the Senate has rejected government claims that there is a long-standing practice of not disclosing privileged legal advice and this claim is undermined by the fact that governments disclose legal advice when they choose to do so, particularly where the advice supports a government position,</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      34pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(ii) despite the Senate rejecting the public interest immunity claims raised by the Attorney-General in the 30 July 2026 letter, the</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      45pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Attorney-General's additional letter of 25 August 2026 reiterates those claims, and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      34pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(iii) the additional letter from the Attorney-General does not acknowledge the need to balance any prejudice to legal proceedings against the public interest of having these documents disclosed;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(d) requires the Minister representing the Attorney-General to comply with the additional order agreed to by the Senate on 17 August 2026, by 11 am on</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      34pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">17 September 2026.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                    </a>  The question is that general business notice of motion No. 750 standing in the name of Senator Shoebridge be agreed to.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal"> </span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
            <interjection>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>83</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                  <name.id>112096</name.id>
                  <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                  <party>ALP</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </interjection>
          </speech>
          <division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [16:43]<br />(The President—Senator Lines)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>30</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                  <name>Antic, A.</name>
                  <name>Babet, R. D.</name>
                  <name>Bell, S.</name>
                  <name>Bleyer, V. E.</name>
                  <name>Blyth, L.</name>
                  <name>Bragg, A. J.</name>
                  <name>Cadell, R. P.</name>
                  <name>Canavan, M. J.</name>
                  <name>Collins, J.</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                  <name>Hodgins-May, S.</name>
                  <name>Kovacic, M. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>McKim, N. J.</name>
                  <name>McLachlan, A. L.</name>
                  <name>Nampijinpa Price, J. S.</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, M. A.</name>
                  <name>Payman, F.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M. I.</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A.</name>
                  <name>Sharma, D. N.</name>
                  <name>Shoebridge, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Smith, D. A.</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                  <name>Whitten, T.</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>19</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Ananda-Rajah, M.</name>
                  <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                  <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A. D.</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                  <name>Darmanin, L.</name>
                  <name>Dolega, J.</name>
                  <name>Dowling, R.</name>
                  <name>Gallagher, K. R.</name>
                  <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                  <name>Lines, S.</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Polley, H.</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A. V. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                  <name>Stewart, J. N. A.</name>
                  <name>Walker, C.</name>
                  <name>Whiteaker, E.</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>11</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Brockman, W. E.</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M.</name>
                  <name>Cash, M. C.</name>
                  <name>Wong, P.</name>
                  <name>Chandler, C.</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D. E.</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                  <name>Mulholland, C.</name>
                  <name>Gatenby, C.</name>
                  <name>Cox, D.</name>
                  <name>Hume, J.</name>
                  <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                  <name>Liddle, K. J.</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                  <name>McDonald, S. E.</name>
                  <name>Grogan, K.</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Tyrrell, T. M.</name>
                  <name>Paterson, J. W.</name>
                  <name>Watt, M. P.</name>
                  <name>Scarr, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Ghosh, V.</name>
                </names>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to. </p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division>
        </subdebate.2>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>MATTERS OF URGENCY</title>
        <page.no>84</page.no>
        <type>MATTERS OF URGENCY</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <debate.text>
        <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
          <p class="HPS-Debate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Debate">MATTERS OF URGENCY</span>
          </p>
        </body>
      </debate.text>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Manufacturing Industry</title>
          <page.no>84</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Manufacturing Industry</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>84</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Sterle, Sen Glenn (The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT)</name>
              <name.id>e68</name.id>
              <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="e68" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT </span>
                  </a>
                  <span class="HPS-GeneralBold">(</span>
                  <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator Sterle</span>
                  <span class="HPS-GeneralBold">)</span> (<span class="HPS-Time">16:46</span>):  Senator Blyth has submitted a proposal, under standing order 75, today. It has been circulated and is shown on the Dynamic Red:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">That, in the opinion of the Senate, the following is a matter of urgency:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">The failure of the Albanese Labor Government's Future Made in Australia agenda, which is killing Australian industry from steel to nickel, with Whyalla's blast furnace permanently closed, Liberty Bell Bay shut and Nickel West suspended despite billions in taxpayer support for Whyalla, Tomago and Nyrstar, while Labor continues to burden industry with high energy costs and then falsely suggests that questioning failed taxpayer-funded bailouts is the same as opposing Australian manufacturing jobs.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Is consideration of the proposal supported?</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span style="font-style:italic;">
                  </span>
                  <span style="font-style:italic;">More than the number of senators required by the standing orders having risen in their places—</span>
                </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span class="HPS-OfficeContinuation">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT:</span>  With the concurrence of the Senate, the clerks will set the clock in line with the informal arrangements made by the whips.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>84</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT, The</name>
                <name.id>10000</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </continue>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>84</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Blyth, Sen Leah</name>
              <name.id>315170</name.id>
              <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
              <party>LP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="315170" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator BLYTH</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">16:47</span>):  I move:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">That, in the opinion of the Senate, the following is a matter of urgency:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">The failure of the Albanese Labor Government's Future Made in Australia agenda, which is killing Australian industry from steel to nickel, with Whyalla's blast furnace permanently closed, Liberty Bell Bay shut and Nickel West suspended despite billions in taxpayer support for Whyalla, Tomago and Nyrstar, while Labor continues to burden industry with high energy costs and then falsely suggests that questioning failed taxpayer-funded bailouts is the same as opposing Australian manufacturing jobs.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">This is an important motion today. Labor promised all Australians a future made in Australia, and I think everyone in this place knows what a Labor promise is worth. Billions of taxpayer dollars have been poured into heavy industry to maintain sovereign capability in Australia. Let me be clear. Sovereign capability is vital for a country like Australia. We need to be able to make structural steel, we need to be able to have aluminium, and we need to be able to make glass. Earlier this week I heard Senator Canavan reflecting on the fact that today in Australia we could not build Australia's Parliament House, because we cannot make the glass that is required to build a building like this. It is vital that we are not dependent on international supply chains when it comes to our sovereign capability. We need to make sure that we can keep heavy industry right here in Australia.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">We are living in the most dangerous strategic times since the end of World War II. Labor admits that that is the case, and, with global disruptions in Europe and the Middle East, we should be acutely aware of any risk to our sovereignty. The problem is that, while billions are pouring in to bail out heavy industry and maintain sovereign capability, the underlying reason for why the taxpayer funded bailouts are required in the first place has never been addressed by this Labor government.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Labor's pursuit of net zero has essentially killed heavy industry and impoverished us all. Australia has all the iron ore, coal, gas, nickel and critical minerals we could ever need to be one of the most prosperous nations in the world. We are the envy of other nations because of what we have in the ground. We not only have the natural resources required; we have the human ingenuity and the capability to make, grow and build everything we could possibly need. Yet, under Labor, Australian businesses can no longer remain commercially competitive. It means it's too expensive to run furnaces, smelters and refineries, and we cannot turn our resources into products here in Australia in an economical and profitable way anymore.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Labor is continuing to burden industry with high energy costs and then falsely suggests that questioning failed taxpayer-funded bailouts is the same as opposing Australian manufacturing jobs. The two things are very different. Heavy industry is being crippled by Labor's net zero fantasy, carbon tax, red and green tape, uncompetitive company tax, and government driven compliance and regulatory burdens. How on earth can our heavy industry compete on a global scale under this Labor government? Even with the billions of taxpayer-dollar bailouts, our heavy industry is still failing. That is extraordinary.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Just this week in my home state of South Australia, the steel blast furnace in Whyalla was not able to be restarted, even after a $2.4 billion bailout. That's taxpayer dollars, to maintain this critical piece of infrastructure in Whyalla. Whyalla produces 75 per cent of Australia's structural steel, and we will now have to rely on international supply chains. And 500 employees and 100 labour hire workers are all out of work overnight, and another 200 embedded contractors are facing uncertainty. Experts estimate that steelmaking could be absent from Whyalla for two to four years. Taxpayers are also expected to fund another $60 million to $80 million in redundancies. I'd like to shout out to the local member for Grey, Tom Venning, and the fierce advocacy he has done for the community of Whyalla and the steelworks.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>85</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Smith, Sen Marielle</name>
              <name.id>281603</name.id>
              <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="281603" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator MARIELLE SMITH</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">16:52</span>):  I also rise to contribute to the debate on this urgency motion. The Albanese Labor government fights to keep Australian industry. We fight for good industrial jobs in Australia and for Australians. That is why we're building a modern energy system and reserving Australian gas for Australian industry. We're putting our shoulder to the wheel and rebuilding Australia's industrial base, and we're doing that because we know that a stronger Australia is an Australia that can make more of what it needs here at home. Australia has the workers, the resources, the energy and the ideas that the world needs, and our government's Future Made in Australia agenda is turning those strengths into jobs, investment and resilient supply chains.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">This is not about making everything; it is about making more here in Australia, adding more value to Australian resources and ensuring that the benefits flow to workers, to local businesses and to local communities. It's about backing the strategic capabilities Australia needs: renewable and reliable energy, critical minerals processing, green metals, defence and advanced technologies, and world-class research and innovation. Rebuilding and strengthening Australia's industrial base is hard work. Establishing new industries is not a linear process. But our government unashamedly backs Australian industry, we back Australian jobs and we back Australian workers, just as we have in Whyalla.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Of course, this is a very difficult time for the people of Whyalla. The announcement by the administrator of the steelworks that the efforts to restart the blast furnace over recent months were unsuccessful will impact on workers, their families and the broader community. And it is clear that years of failure to invest in the steelworks mean that it is now beyond repair. What these workers in Whyalla need now more than ever is a government that backs them in, that acknowledges how tirelessly they have worked throughout this challenging period. They need a government that is committed to a domestic steel manufacturing industry and a government that is securing the long-term future of the Whyalla steelworks alongside the local jobs and the local families who rely on it.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">We believe in a future made in Australia, we believe in a strong future for Whyalla and we believe in Australian industry and all of its potential. That's why our government established the national reconstruction fund, a $15 billion investment fund to back Australian industry and to drive the industries of tomorrow. To date, that fund has announced 32 investments, totalling some $1.83 billion across resources, biotech, artificial intelligence, food and beverage manufacturing, housing and quantum development. The work of that fund to grow domestic industrial capabilities is central to our economic security, and it's central to our resilience. This work is more important now than ever.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Together, through the national reconstruction fund, targeted Future Made in Australia programs and smelter interventions, the Albanese Labor government is making Australia stronger and ensuring that our resources, energy, skills and ideas are creating value for Australians. We are strengthening supply chains, crowding in private investment and building the industrial base our country will need for decades to come. We're supporting jobs in our industrial heartlands, and we are creating the jobs of the future. What workers want and what industry needs right now is a government that backs them in. What they need is a government that believes in their potential and that believes in a future for local manufacturing—and one that not just believes in it but is prepared to stand up for it.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">What they don't need is an opposition that talks them down. What they don't need is an opposition that abandons them. They don't need representation like they've had from the Liberal Party in the past. We all remember Joe Hockey, on the floor of the other place, goading the car industry to leave Australia, to leave my home state of South Australia, to turn their back on South Australian workers, to turn their back on Elizabeth and to turn their back on our state. And do you know what? After they goaded them to do it, they did. Our state has lived with the consequences of that. Our government and the Malinauskas government have been trying to do something about it. Workers in our state remember the Liberal Party's record on that. We remember how you behaved then. We'll remember how you respond now. Workers in my state want a government that will back them in, not an opposition that will talk them down.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>86</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Roberts, Sen Malcolm</name>
              <name.id>266524</name.id>
              <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
              <party>ON</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="266524" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator ROBERTS</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">16:57</span>):  I thank Senator Blyth for this matter of urgency, which One Nation supports. Last night I read a list of large job losses from the last few months here in Australia. Today there's one more to add. The retailer Cue, or Veronika Maine, has now gone into receivership. They may be saved, and I hope for the sake of their 69 stores and hundreds of people that they are. Other retailers in administration or liquidation recently include Betts, Lincraft, Barbeques Galore, Aussie Disposals, Stateside Sports, AH Beard, Harold's and regional retailer Proud Poppy. These are names familiar to all Australians. I've shopped at them. This is personal. These are people in their communities that are now out of work.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">According to the Australian Bureau of Statistics, in the 12 months prior to February 2026, nationwide retrenchments rose to 257,900 people. That is more than a quarter of a million people—Australians who no longer have a job, families without a breadwinner. Every community is suffering. Every retailer is feeling it. Unemployment has risen under the Albanese government from 3.4 per cent to 4.5 per cent. This follows on from the 14,152 business insolvencies last financial year—the second highest on record after the all-time high of 14,700 recorded under Treasurer Chalmers the year before. Australians having a go to provide for themselves and people we know in our communities keeping our local shops in business? No longer. There are 691,500 Australians without a job and looking for one.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Another million Australians on top of that are working and not getting all the hours they need to keep their heads above water. Imagine how hard that will be with another one million planned new arrivals to compete with thanks to Labor's mass immigration program. Those still with jobs are increasingly classified as the working poor, dependent on government handouts to survive, which is exactly how totalitarian governments throughout time have wanted their citizens: desperate, broke and totally reliant on government.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">The bailout offered to keep Tomago aluminium smelter in business will, in my experience, only be temporary. Labor and the Liberals did the same thing with the Australian car industry. Remember when we made cars? Remember all those union jobs? Subsidies were used to keep the car industry alive long enough to transition from local manufacturing to a fully imported supply chain. Then the subsidies ended. They were pulled.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">With modern, computerised, AI driven automated assembly lines, cost-efficient manufacturing is possible here in Australia and has been for years. Modern manufacturing does not need cheap labour. It needs proximity to raw materials, which we have, and capital to build our facilities. We have $4.5 trillion in capital stored in superannuation funds looking for profitable, safe investments. It needs a regulatory environment to free up that investment. A One Nation government will deliver that.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">American industry has worked all this out. In the last few years, Apple, GE, Samsung, General Motors, Eli Lilly, Intel and Micron have all moved manufacturing back to the United States. Why? Because they're on a track back to cheap power. If they can do it, so can we. Of course, this does need steel, and this Labor government just allowed our steel mill in Whyalla to close, with 600 jobs lost. That's 600 jobs gone. That's another heavy industry facility where subsidies were used as a bridge to allow the plant to be hollowed out and then replaced with imports. The LIBERTY Bell Bay manganese smelter closed in July—another 250 jobs gone. Instead of encouraging investment in manufacturing and heavy industry to bring jobs home, this government is growing the Chinese economy. When did unions stop worrying about Australian workers and start cheering on the Chinese Communist Party? Or was the $15 billion ripped out of Victoria's Big Build a pay-off for silence? Who knows?</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">India is emerging as a major source of steel, using iron ore and coal. Where do they get theirs? Oh, that's right! They get their iron ore and coal from Australia, of course. Australian workers are wondering how it could be possible to ship iron ore from Western Australia and coal from New South Wales and Queensland to China and India, make the steel using automated production and then ship it back here. I'll tell you. It's a one-word answer—energy. It turns out weather-dependent-power windmills can't sustain manufacturing and heavy industry and can't sustain an economy. This government's insistence on advancing ideology over enterprise is costing everyday Australians their jobs, their homes, their marriages, their families and their dignity. The next election can't come soon enough.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>FIRST SPEECH</title>
        <page.no>86</page.no>
        <type>FIRST SPEECH</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <debate.text>
        <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
          <p class="HPS-Debate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Debate">FIRST SPEECH</span>
          </p>
        </body>
      </debate.text>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Gatenby, Senator Chris</title>
          <page.no>86</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Gatenby, Senator Chris</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>86</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Sterle, Sen Glenn (The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT)</name>
              <name.id>e68</name.id>
              <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="e68" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT </span>
                  </a>
                  <span class="HPS-GeneralBold">(</span>
                  <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator Sterle</span>
                  <span class="HPS-GeneralBold">)</span> (<span class="HPS-Time">17:02</span>):  Order! Before I call Senator Gatenby, I remind honourable senators that this is his first speech; therefore, I ask that the usual courtesies be extended to him.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>86</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Gatenby, Sen Chris</name>
              <name.id>324140</name.id>
              <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
              <party>LP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="324140" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator GATENBY</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Tasmania</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">17:02</span>):  I'm immensely grateful for the opportunity to give my first speech in the Australian Senate. It's an extraordinary honour to serve the great people of Tasmania and the Liberal Party and to put service above self and to put people first. Friends, Australia is the greatest country in the world, and Tasmania the best place within it. We may be small in size, but we have been a mighty contributor to the Federation.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">But loving your country does not mean pretending everything is going well. Hard times require hard truths, and the prosperous Australia we know is under pressure and, with it, Tasmania. We are being led by a government that sees the answer to every problem as more spending, more control and more bureaucracy. Young people question whether they will enjoy opportunities that their parents had. Costs and inflation are rising. Productivity has stagnated. Government spending and debt keep growing. Migration has run ahead of our capacity to provide homes and infrastructure. Too many Australians feel they cannot get ahead. One of the most energy-rich nations on the earth has its own people paying too much for power.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">But I do not accept decline, not for Australia, not for Tasmania and not for the next generation. We must leave them more opportunity, not more debt. We must back Tasmania's industries of the future while becoming more self-reliant by making, growing and building more here at home. I believe Australia can thrive again, and I intend to help make that happen.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Sir Winston Churchill was often paraphrased as saying that he never suffered indigestion from eating his own words, and I hope that that applies to me in this speech. Colleagues, I deeply believe in the Liberal values of dignity, freedom and individual potential, and we need to provide a compelling vision for Australia's future. Yes, government has an important role, but government should empower people not seek to control them. Former prime minister John Howard put it simply in his first speech:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">The individual's success is the community's success.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">So, when someone gets a job or a business succeeds or a farmer makes a buck, the country is stronger for it. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">And I believe we need to give Australians something to believe in again—not the belief in government as the answer to every problem but belief in themselves but the belief that, if you work hard, you take risks and you make sacrifices you and your family can get ahead. That was the promise of Australia: your beginnings do not determine your destination; success should be celebrated and hard work rewarded; equality before the law; a government that trusts its people; a country where young people can own a home and build a future; where families are given more choice in childcare so they can better determine their life and career balance; and where starting a business is encouraged, saving is rewarded and freedom comes with responsibility.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">If Australia is to thrive, we must solve our productivity problem. Higher productivity is how we sustainably lift wages, improve living standards and fund better services. I recently spoke with Dion, who works overtime to try and get ahead for his family, but he's despondent as tax eats into his overtime, diminishing the reward for extra effort. I want us to examine ideas on how we reward those making the extra effort, like Dion, like a capped annual tax-free overtime incentive of a certain amount that allows people to quarantine more of their genuine overtime income each year. This could apply also to pensioners and younger people, without affecting their other supports.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">It's also time to consider reducing the small business company tax rate. More than 97 per cent of Tasmanian businesses are small businesses. They are the backbone of our economy, and I believe we should bring the small business tax rate down further, rewarding those who take risks, employ Australians and invest in their communities. We should also consider the concept of a higher personal tax-free threshold for business owners who, for example, employ people, stay in business for a certain period or meet certain criteria, as a mechanism to reward the investment made by our small-business owners.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Australia will not tax its way to higher living standards. Before the government can spend a buck, somebody has to create it. We must back the people who grow the economic pie: the farmer, the small-business owner, the manufacturer, the miner, the forester and the entrepreneur. Recently, a small-business owner in Launceston told me lower paid workers may now be receiving more from mandatory pay increases, but small-business owners are now the lowest paid in this country. Owners often get paid last, while carrying the risk.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">I've worked in small businesses and helped my wife in her previous business. Businesses do not absorb costs; people ultimately do. The owner pays, through lower earnings; the worker, through reduced hours or fewer opportunities; and the customer, through higher prices. But I want Australia to be the best country to start and grow a business. The person who creates the job must never become the forgotten person in our economy, which is why we should reduce small business taxes. If we're serious about productivity, we need a tax system that rewards work, investment and enterprise. As the party of lower taxes, we have already developed policies to tackle bracket creep, and, as talent and capital are mobile, we need more competitive personal tax rates to help drive investment, enterprise and productivity into the future.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Tasmania is a wonderful place to live and call home. Across Tasmania, towns, sporting clubs, regional shows, volunteers, schools and local businesses give people identity and belonging. Tasmanians deserve their fair share from Canberra for infrastructure and other investments and programs. But from Bell Bay to irrigation and decisions like Rushy Lagoon, too many decisions by federal Labor have failed Tasmania and our productive industries. Many here tonight will recall the former Labor-Green government and what happened to Tasmania. I'm here to stand up for our state's future and ensure those dark days are over.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Tasmania cannot become a museum for the enjoyment of interstate and local armchair activists who treat our state as their fundraising whipping boy. We simply cannot allow an anti-investment mentality that opposes productive development at every turn. What we need is balance and jobs. More than half the state's forests are already within the broader reserve estate. We have highly regulated world-class fisheries. We can and do still protect what makes Tasmania special while remaining a state that grows, mines, builds, makes and exports. We must continue to do this to help keep jobs and, most importantly, keep young people in Tasmania.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">I am enormously optimistic about Tasmania's opportunities. We have energy; strategic industrial lands, such as Bell Bay; world-class agriculture and biofuel opportunities and other opportunities in areas like soil carbon and advanced manufacturing; world leading industry, such as Incat; and outstanding research and education organisations like the Australian Maritime College. We have a world-class tourism sector and the potential to be a strong events and convention destination. We have a new football team. We have a planned stadium and, hopefully, a gather round.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">The challenge of all these opportunities is to turn those advantages into investment and jobs backed by good education. We also need to build more houses to help keep young people in Tasmania, which is a priority of mine. All three layers of government should work together better to identify the land, streamline the approvals, invest in essential headworks infrastructure and let the private sector get on with it. Let's not have another discussion paper or houses stuck in bureaucracy across multiple levels of government. Let's just do it. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">The Gatenby family has lived and farmed in Tasmania for over 200 years, including over that time breeding stud sheep and Angus cattle and producing wool, flour, horses and broadacre crops. My forebears were equestrian enthusiasts. I pity the horse should I have ventured into that foray! My great grandfather Jack Gatenby notably owned Phar Lap's full sister Nea Lap, who sadly wasn't as successful—sorry, everyone!</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">While it is commonplace to hand-wring about the past, I'm immensely proud of my family's history. Hannah and Andrew Gatenby took a gamble and arrived from England via Wales with four sons, three daughters and millstones ready to create a water powered mill at the site of their first homestead, Barton, on the Isis River or the Penny Royal Creek, near Campbell Town. They were ready to get to work. My children are now the eighth generation of our family living in Tasmania but sadly the first generation not to grow up on a farm. Even so, I want Tasmania to continue to be Australia's agricultural innovation island.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Innovation begins with the fundamental ingredient of water. Reliable water unlocks high-value agricultural options for farmers. It unlocks investment. It unlocks stronger regional communities, especially in dry times. I want the Tamar Water Scheme progressed, with Commonwealth backing to back farmers and industry, along with the remaining statewide tranche 3 irrigation schemes that Labor has walked away from. I also support new incentives for farmers to build or expand on-farm water storage, including to prepare for droughts and particularly where major schemes may never reach them.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Our ambition should not stop at growing world-class produce. We should process more in Tasmania, add value, create jobs and sell it to the world. But to do that one thing what we need is real freight equalisation across Bass Strait. Bass Strait should be a body of water, not a barrier to Tasmanian ambition. Too often, it is said to be cheaper to ship goods from Europe to Melbourne than from Melbourne to Tasmania. Both Woolworths and Lion have pointed to Bass Strait freight costs as key contributing factors to their recent detrimental decisions, yet Labor's promised action on freight equalisation by mid-year has simply not arrived. It must be fixed to secure our export future.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">In terms of my time with the UK-Australia chamber of commerce in London, I believe Tasmania must take its exports to the world and attract investment. As an example, with the relatively new Australia-UK Free Trade Agreement opening the market and tight cattle supplies in both the United Kingdom and the United States, more Tasmanian beef exports to Britain are on the menu.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Health policy is personal to me. When I was 18, my father passed away from acute myeloid leukaemia a week after my final exams. I remember my 18th birthday with family at the local pub, knowing dad was in hospital. It was a difficult time for all of us. I remember the call from my mother, who's here today, in his final days, telling me to come quickly, before we lost him. I remember thinking to myself how my life would just never be the same again. Some treatments available today simply did not exist when Dad died in 2002. Perhaps he'd still be here now, not gone at the age of 64. That left me with an enduring interest in Australians accessing new medicines and medical breakthroughs, which I will pursue in this place.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">On broader health access as our population ages, we should make far greater use of telehealth, nurse practitioners and other health professionals in regional Tasmania by maximising their scope of practice, something I pursued when I worked in the pharmacy sector. Patients should not have to close up shop and travel across the state for a 10-minute, non-critical appointment or test result that could be delivered safely online or in a nearby portal. We can get the remuneration right to make this a better reality.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">In more recent times, we have seen attempted cost shifts from the Commonwealth to the state government in Tasmania, including on primary care access, and the cuts to health on rebates for older Australians over 65 years of age will put even more pressure on our public hospital system—another cost shift.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">We have seen it in aged care. We must also address the intersection between hospitals and aged care. Right now, about 80 older Tasmanians who should be in aged care are languishing in public hospitals. Not only does this block beds from those who need them; the hospitals do not provide the right care for these individuals. The Tasmanian government estimates that this will cost about $432 million over the forward estimates, and now they've also taken to building more facilities for older Australians themselves. The Commonwealth must urgently provide the aged-care places and support required. The person should come before the jurisdiction, and the Commonwealth needs to meet its responsibilities.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Australia needs a strong public and private health system, but Tasmania cannot realistically provide every highly specialised treatment locally. That's why the Commonwealth should consider what more it can do to help Tasmanians access that care, as part of meeting its promised 45 per cent of health funding.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">The journey—the joy and journey—of having children can be paved with heartbreak, and IVF is sometimes the only avenue for some to try for that miracle. It was for my family. Victoria provides some access to public IVF services. The Tasmanian government's $2,000 IVF support rebate is to be applauded, but a small state cannot be expected to carry this alone. The Commonwealth should work with the Tasmanian government to help navigate a better supported, on-island public fertility pathway, because your postcode or Bass Strait ideally should not determine your last chance to start a family.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Where we come from shapes what we believe. Some of my earliest lessons in life came from growing up on our family farm at Creekton on Brumbys Creek just outside of Cressy in the northern midlands. We had the freedom to roam, explore and go on adventures. There were dogs, chickens, horses, sheep, a goat named Snowflake, a 1930s Dodge fire engine and the Black Angus cattle in which my father took great pride.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">There were cold winter mornings under the Great Western Tiers, evenings when we came home covered in mud and long summer days riding bikes. We fed cattle from the ute with Dad bellowing out the window, and ours was a home with a revolving door of family and friends. It was all topped off by a 45-minute to-and-from drive each day to school with our neighbour Maggie, who was also a teacher, with old Roxette tapes blaring away. They were great days. My parents encouraged us to have a go if we wanted things, so much so that one of my first entrepreneurial ventures involved bagging sheep manure from beneath the shearing shed and selling it at school for $2 to unsuspecting parents who didn't realise how much they needed this for their gardens, although Mum always claimed she did most of the work. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">My family's story also told me about adversity. Although everything is relative to your own circumstances, in our case, the difficult years of the 1990s meant that we had to sell our farm, like so many others, off the back of hard economic times. As a boy, I remember seeing my father badly affected because he felt he'd let everyone down. What stayed with me was that he was not principally worried about himself. He was worried about everyone else. I believe he would have benefited from our greater willingness these days to discuss mental health and from services such as Rural Alive and Well, which is based in Tasmania and does so much good work in our regional communities. Dad taught me responsibility, humility, to care for others and the importance of leading by example. I wish enormously that he'd been given more years and that he could be here today. At his funeral, I read Kipling's <span style="font-style:italic;">If</span><span style="font-style:italic;">. </span>A copy of the poem that Dad received from his father and handed down to me I have in my office in Launceston. An important approach to public life from the poem is: 'If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue, or walk with Kings—nor lose the common touch,' which will help guide me. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">After Dad died, Mum carried much of the responsibility and gave us stability. Now living in town, she continued to work multiple jobs. She volunteered at my junior football club, the North Launceston Football Club; the school clothing pool; and the library. She always put us children first. Looking back now as a parent and as a husband, I understand far more about the strength and the sacrifice that mothers make. Thanks, Mum. My sisters, Sally and Emily, have challenged me more than I'd like to admit, supported me and kept my feet firmly on the ground. Many of the strongest people who have shaped my life have been women, including my grandmothers, especially my paternal grandmother, Granny Bonnie, who lost both her sons and her husband after he survived as a prisoner of war on the Burma Railway and returned from World War II, all in her lifetime. No-one should have to endure that much pain, yet she remained the strongest person I ever knew. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">At 41 years old, politically I am the product of the John Howard years. He remains my political hero. When at ANU, I regularly came here with now Senator Bragg, Dave Bold, Isaac Levido and friends to watch Howard and Costello wipe the floor with Labor in question time instead of attending commerce lectures. I was drawn to the arguments about the economy. Australia's place in the world, individual responsibility, aspiration and the limits of government. I think this was when I first knew I wanted to be in politics. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">I was later fortunate to work and campaign in Britain, including volunteering on the Conservatives' 2010 election campaign and Boris Johnson's 2012 mayoral campaign at the generosity of Sir Lynton Crosby. I also met Margaret Thatcher, an extraordinary experience for a boy from Blackwood Creek. I always admired her determination to do what she believed was right, and I was lucky enough to work for her biographer, former Telegraph editor Lord Charles Moore, and many incredible people at the thinktank Policy Exchange while he was chair. It was a place of great policy development and contest of ideas. We also welcomed Prime Ministers Howard and Abbott and Minister Chris Pyne as speakers when I worked there. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Whilst not political, another influence was my late godfather, Christoph Altenburg, a silversmith and a great family friend from Braidwood with a fascinating Austrian lineage. He had a saying that has always stayed with me: 'Blessed are the flexible. They shall not be bent out of shape.'</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">No-one arrives here alone. I thank the Tasmanian Division of the Liberal Party and its members for placing their trust in me as a member and state president, twice as a state candidate in Bass and now as a senator. I thank the Senate preselectors for selecting me just five and a half weeks ago. Perhaps my standing here today is some evidence that nice guys can come first. I acknowledge my Senate ticket colleagues Sarah Courtney and Jacki Martin; Senator Colbeck, my former boss; Senator Chandler, who's not with us; and Senator Duniam. I acknowledge former senator Wendy Askew, whose casual vacancy brought me to this chamber and, I believe, the deputy whip's role. I acknowledge, while I'm making acknowledgements, our deputy premier and former senator Guy Barnett, who was with us this afternoon, and our state president, Michael McKenna, who's in the gallery. To the former ministers and parliamentarians I've worked for; mentors; volunteers; colleagues; party members; my home branch of Trevallyn and former branch of South Esk; the state director and state executive; and schoolfriends and ANU friends who have supported me, whether in the early days or more recently—you know who you are—I say a sincere thank you. To the members and friends who have travelled from Tasmania and afar to be here today: it means more than you know. I thank my staff, who are here tonight, for all of their support. I thank you for the warm welcome to this place, all of my colleagues.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">To my mum and sisters: thank you again. To my parents-in-law, Jane and David: thank you for being here, for always supporting our family and for instilling so much curiosity and adventure in our children. To my wife, Libby: public life may put one name on the ballot paper, but the sacrifices are shared by the whole family. Thank you for believing in me, for your patience and for tolerating the occasional madness that comes with politics. You are my everything, and I love you.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Finally, to my children, Jack and Florence, who are also here in the gallery, as you may have heard—before I came to Canberra, Jack, who's not quite four years old, asked me: 'Daddy, will there be any baddies in Canberra? If there will be, I'll bring my sword.' I told him that wouldn't be necessary—although, President, after the first few weeks, I reserve the right to revisit that advice! Jack and Florence, I am the luckiest man in the world to be your father. I know I'll be away a bit more, but your country needs your daddy. I love you both.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">As I've outlined, Australia faces serious challenges. But I do not accept decline. I have come here to fight for practical policies, to make things better for all Tasmanians and Australians and to help deliver a better tomorrow for the next generation. To be here to represent my state and the Liberal Party is the greatest honour of my life, and I intend to make it count.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>MATTERS OF URGENCY</title>
        <page.no>90</page.no>
        <type>MATTERS OF URGENCY</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <debate.text>
        <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
          <p class="HPS-Debate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Debate">MATTERS OF URGENCY</span>
          </p>
        </body>
      </debate.text>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Manufacturing Industry</title>
          <page.no>90</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Manufacturing Industry</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Normal">Consideration resumed.</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>90</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Colbeck, Sen Richard</name>
              <name.id>00AOL</name.id>
              <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
              <party>LP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="00AOL" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator COLBECK</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Tasmania</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">17:30</span>):  I rise with great pleasure to speak on behalf of the coalition in support of Senator Blyth's motion today with respect to the complete failure of the government's Future Made in Australia plan, because it's now become a little more than a future subsidised in Australia plan. That's because of the fact that the Australian government has completely lost control of the Australian economy, particularly in respect of energy prices. We're seeing the impact of that in major manufacturing enterprises all around Australia, from Whyalla, where we've seen the terrible circumstance of the closure of the blast furnace this week and the terrible impact on 500 employees and all of their families, to other parts of the country, where the government's had to come in with huge swathes of taxpayers' money to ensure that these vital manufacturing facilities can remain here in our country.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">The people at Bell Bay aluminium in my home state of Tasmania are still waiting. The government promised on a number of occasions, both the Prime Minister and Minister Bowen, that Bell Bay aluminium would qualify for the green-aluminium credit program. It seems that the green-aluminium credit program no longer exists. What is the mechanism through which the Australian government is going to keep their promise to the workers at Bell Bay aluminium, the 550 of them, who are still waiting to understand what their future is? It's going to need a contribution from the Commonwealth. There's no question about that. The state government have said that clearly they can't do it all on their own. When the Commonwealth has spoken about it and when the Prime Minister has spoken about it previously, they've talked about it in the context of a fifty-fifty deal, but there's no sign of anything at this point in time from the Commonwealth.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">We see this great mirage, this great deception, from the Australian government, where they try and blame everybody else for the problems that are going on—'It's someone else's fault'—but it comes back to the failed policies of this government and the management of the economy that is driving these businesses into the situation that they're finding themselves. We're spending billions of dollars in taxpayer support at these facilities around the country. We've already poured billions of dollars into Whyalla, and we see the terrible situation where the blast furnace has to close permanently. What is the plan? We need to understand the plan. We were promised and the people of Whyalla were promised that green energy was going to be the saviour. We were promised that we would become a green-energy exporting superpower. I remember sitting on the Senate inquiry, the Joint Standing Committee on Trade and Investment Growth, where the whole premise of the inquiry was that Australia would become a green-energy exporting superpower based on green hydrogen. That promise has completely evaporated to the point where the minister now says that he was never really invested in hydrogen, yet it was the promise for making steel at Whyalla.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Why was it never going to work? Why was green aluminium never going to be a viable proposition in Australia? It's simple, and it comes back to the nub of all of the problems that we're seeing with these large manufacturing businesses. It's the cost of energy. The cost of energy was always too high to support a green-hydrogen industry in this country. When you take into account the cost of the energy and the energy lost through the manufacturing process for green hydrogen, it was never going to be viable, yet the government kept on making promises to our communities that that was going to be a part of the energy grid and that it was going to be a part of the support for manufacturing in this country. Promise after promise after promise has been failed on. It's no wonder that Australians no longer believe a thing this government says, because Australians can't trust its words, they can't trust its promises, and the communities of this country are being left to pay for that.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>91</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Lambie, Sen Jacqui</name>
              <name.id>250026</name.id>
              <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
              <party>JLN</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="250026" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator LAMBIE</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Tasmania</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">17:35</span>):  Nine years ago, when Sanjeev Gupta took over Whyalla steelworks, there were celebrations all round. The people of Whyalla even gave him a parade and called him the 'saviour' of our steel industry. Gupta told South Australians that Whyalla would produce green steel, with a long-term goal for a megaplant. Gupta made a lot of promises to the people in George Town too, in Tasmania, where he bought the LIBERTY Bell Bay manganese smelter. He promised billions in investment and a secure future for the plant and its workers. Less than five years later, LIBERTY Bell Bay has closed and taken 217 secure jobs with it—a gut punch for the people of George Town. Gupta made promises of a great future everywhere he went, and he's left those workers and communities shattered. There's no praise for him now at Whyalla steelworks, LIBERTY Bell Bay or Tahmoor coalmine.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">According to Paul Barry's new book, <span style="font-style:italic;">The Big Steal</span>, Gupta's scam worked like this: buy a run-down steelworks, aluminium smelter or power station in a town heavily dependent on it; and promise to invest millions and turn it into a modern, environmentally friendly asset. But it was all rubbish, because Gupta's money was all borrowed. One day, in August 2024, Gupta splashed out $12.5 million for a waterfront apartment on Sydney's Finger Wharf. At that very moment, in Whyalla, steelworkers were working under intense heat to restart the ageing blast furnace that Gupta had promised to replace and traders in the town were trying to extract the millions of dollars he owed them. As Barry says in his book, everybody wanted to believe Gupta, but nobody did their due diligence, including Australia's Foreign Investment Review Board. Again, where was Gupta's money coming from? Had this bloke pulled off a miracle anywhere else? Paul Barry says that at least $1 billion was siphoned off by Gupta from Australian businesses in Whyalla, in South Australia; Bell Bay, in Tasmania; and Tahmoor, in New South Wales.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Tasmania has some experience with dodgy decisions made by the Foreign Investment Review Board. Not only is their due diligence clearly lacking; when they apply conditions, they can't actually enforce them. If the government wants its Future Made in Australia policy to work, fixing the Foreign Investment Review Board should be its top priority. While they're at it, they might want to address the fact that the government have no strategic plan for Australian industry. What do we need onshore, how much do we need, what have we got, and what is the Department of Industry, Science and Resources actually doing?</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">I raised my concerns about Whyalla and Bell Bay repeatedly with state and federal governments. I wrote to ASIC, whose position in March 2025 was this:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">ASIC is aware of the concerns regarding the entity operating Whyalla steelworks and is actively monitoring the situation.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Great—still monitoring, are you? At the time of the federal government's intervention in Whyalla, the steelworks was $1.3 billion in debt and it was losing 1.3 million bucks a day. It looks to me like the regulator, once again, was asleep at the wheel. We have established a model where the federal government only gets involved at the point of crisis—intervention that is much too little, much too late.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">The National Reconstruction Fund has eight potential focus areas, which include 'alumina and aluminium' and 'iron and steel'. Why are these potential areas? Why aren't they essential areas? We can't have a future made in Australia unless we have steel, manganese and aluminium.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">This Australian government has to stop playing catch-up. We need a 20-year plan, we need the investment and we need it now. And, in cases like Whyalla and LIBERTY Bell Bay, the government must recognise their national importance and take a stake in them. Stop handing out money all the time. Get something back. Become private investors. I don't care. Goodness me! You can't keep putting money in. If you had known what we did in Whyalla—we could see this going down the drain. It was all happening. We all knew this well over 12 months ago. Otherwise, our future will be at the mercy of ships hoping to make it through waters threatened by Iran, the Houthi rebels, China, America or whatever militant takes the stage tomorrow.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>92</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">McLachlan, Sen Andrew</name>
              <name.id>287062</name.id>
              <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
              <party>LP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="287062" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator McLACHLAN</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">17:40</span>):  As the last speaker on this motion, I want to express my thoughts and sympathies for the people of Whyalla. I know they're going through it tough, particularly those employed directly by the steelworks but also the families that sit behind those workers, that support those workers, and all the associated businesses in Whyalla that will be deeply impacted.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">I also acknowledge the contribution by Senator Lambie, who focused on the corporate failures here. There are a lot of times in this chamber when each side of politics is blaming the other. I come from corporate Australia, but when I started my journey in life I was a young lawyer in Port Augusta advising the Australian Workers' Union, and I spent a lot of time in Whyalla. These failures are a series of poor decision-making by corporate Australia and corporates internationally where they undercapitalise these facilities and then the workers and the families of the workers suffer. You can't magically sum up this sort of failure at this scale. Governments of all political persuasions do their best, with the best of intentions, to try to shore up and fund these important facilities that give us sovereign capability. The corporates ask for this money and often expense it in bad faith.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">As a body politic, we need to think about how we're going to address these issues with these important industries going forward. I'm almost at the point on my political journey where I think maybe we just need to build a steel mill ourselves and own it as a state facility, and that is a long way for a Liberal to come. We just can't keep funding these corporate giants, often on a global scale, that undercapitalise these facilities. I have been to Whyalla. I have been to these facilities. They are ancient, from a steel-building perspective. They're not as efficient on a global scale.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">If we want to see families in this important community in my state thrive, we need to give families certainty. They need to be able to decide to put down their roots, not just come to Adelaide to add to the population of Adelaide but to live happy, healthy lives in facilities which are powered by clean energy and are not continuing to contribute to environmental degradation, because that won't be sustainable either. At some point, Australian society will not tolerate that—again, undercutting the certainty.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">There's been a lot said about net zero—rubbish. I think that if we want sovereign capability we're going to have to work out how to fund it in a sustainable way, and we're going to need to hold the corporates to account. We've had two wounds in South Australia. We've just had Whyalla, we have the smelter at Port Pirie on almost a five-year cycle or longer, we've had the algal bloom, and we now have bird flu. We're a small population in a vast state. We know that we have the goodwill of the federal parliament, but don't let the corporates off the hook. Do not let years of selfishness and greed be disguised at the moment of failure.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">The South Australian government, even though it's of a different political persuasion, is doing its best. It has the goodwill of its Liberal senators. We hope that they will be successful in finding a solution and that we build a sustainable steel mill in Whyalla. But the decision-making is not going to be easy and the problems are similar to those around the world. I end with my thoughts for the workers.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  The question is the urgency motion as moved by Senator Blyth be agreed to.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal"> </span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>92</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </speech>
        <division>
          <division.header>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [17:49]<br />(The President—Senator Lines)</p>
            </body>
          </division.header>
          <division.data>
            <ayes>
              <num.votes>20</num.votes>
              <title>AYES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Antic, A.</name>
                <name>Babet, R. D.</name>
                <name>Bell, S.</name>
                <name>Blyth, L.</name>
                <name>Bragg, A. J.</name>
                <name>Cadell, R. P.</name>
                <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                <name>Collins, J.</name>
                <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                <name>Hanson, P. L.</name>
                <name>Henderson, S. M.</name>
                <name>Kovacic, M.</name>
                <name>McLachlan, A. L.</name>
                <name>Nampijinpa Price, J. S.</name>
                <name>O'Sullivan, M. A. (Teller)</name>
                <name>Roberts, M. I.</name>
                <name>Ruston, A.</name>
                <name>Sharma, D. N.</name>
                <name>Smith, D. A.</name>
                <name>Whitten, T.</name>
              </names>
            </ayes>
            <noes>
              <num.votes>27</num.votes>
              <title>NOES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                <name>Ananda-Rajah, M.</name>
                <name>Bleyer, V. E.</name>
                <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                <name>Chisholm, A. D.</name>
                <name>Darmanin, L.</name>
                <name>Dowling, R.</name>
                <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                <name>Ghosh, V.</name>
                <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                <name>Hodgins-May, S.</name>
                <name>Lines, S.</name>
                <name>McCarthy, M.</name>
                <name>McKim, N. J.</name>
                <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                <name>Payman, F.</name>
                <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                <name>Sheldon, A. V. (Teller)</name>
                <name>Shoebridge, D. M.</name>
                <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                <name>Walker, C.</name>
                <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                <name>Watt, M. P.</name>
                <name>Whiteaker, E.</name>
              </names>
            </noes>
            <pairs>
              <num.votes>12</num.votes>
              <title>PAIRS</title>
              <names>
                <name>Brockman, W. E.</name>
                <name>Tyrrell, T. M.</name>
                <name>Canavan, M. J.</name>
                <name>Grogan, K.</name>
                <name>Cash, M. C.</name>
                <name>Wong, P.</name>
                <name>Chandler, C.</name>
                <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                <name>Gatenby, C.</name>
                <name>Polley, H.</name>
                <name>Hume, J.</name>
                <name>Gallagher, K. R.</name>
                <name>Liddle, K. J.</name>
                <name>Stewart, J. N. A.</name>
                <name>McDonald, S. E.</name>
                <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                <name>McGrath, J. A.</name>
                <name>Mulholland, C.</name>
                <name>McKenzie, B. G.</name>
                <name>Cox, D.</name>
                <name>Paterson, J. W.</name>
                <name>Farrell, D. E.</name>
                <name>Scarr, P. M.</name>
                <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
              </names>
            </pairs>
          </division.data>
          <division.result>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived. </p>
            </body>
          </division.result>
        </division>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Migration</title>
          <page.no>93</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Migration</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>93</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Sterle, Sen Glenn (The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT)</name>
              <name.id>e68</name.id>
              <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="e68" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT </span>
                  </a>
                  <span class="HPS-GeneralBold">(</span>
                  <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator Sterle</span>
                  <span class="HPS-GeneralBold">)</span> (<span class="HPS-Time">17:53</span>):  The Senate will now consider the proposal from Senator Hanson, submitted under standing order 75 today, which has also been circulated and is shown on the Dynamic Red:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">That in the opinion of the Senate, the following is a matter of urgency:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">The need for the Albanese Labor government to abandon its migration policies that will add an extra 1 million people to Australia's population over the next four years on top of the 1.6 million people Labor has already added since coming to office.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Is consideration of the proposal supported?</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span style="font-style:italic;">More than the number of senators required by the standing orders having risen in their places—</span>
                </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT:</span>  With the concurrence of the Senate, the clerks will set the clock in line with the informal arrangements made by the whips.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>93</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT, The</name>
                <name.id>10000</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>93</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Hanson, Sen Pauline</name>
              <name.id>BK6</name.id>
              <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
              <party>ON</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="BK6" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator HANSON</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Leader of One Nation</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">17:53</span>):  I move:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">That in the opinion of the Senate, the following is a matter of urgency:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">The need for the Albanese Labor government to abandon its migration policies that will add an extra 1 million people to Australia's population over the next four years on top of the 1.6 million people Labor has already added since coming to office.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">I'll tell the Australian people why the government are doing this. The government is using mass migration to prop up the GDP and to cover up their economic mismanagement. Now the Australian people have a choice. One Nation will cut the number of temporary visa holders in the country by more than 750,000 over a period of three years. Labor intend to add an extra million. Some people aren't reading One Nation's policies. Why? It's because they choose to ridicule us just because we're One Nation.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">We aren't cutting backpackers, WHMs. We're not cutting the PALM scheme. We aren't cutting any skilled temporary migrants. One Nation will cut the number of temporary visa holders to 2017 levels. The economy didn't crash in 2017, and, in fact, many Australians were better off. We will also restore the number of temporary international students to 2015 levels, a time when our universities were strong and served the national interest. We will stop international students and temporary skilled workers bringing their entire families over.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Our principles on migration are simple. Temporary migrants should come for a limited period of time by themselves and leave when their visa is over. Those who illegally overstay should be deported. The Albanese Labor government are trying to reach their targets by cracking down on backpackers and tourists. Labor's attacks will cause economic destruction in our hospitality, farming and tourism sectors. The government is trying to pull statistical tricks to game the numbers. They've lied to Australians about how many skilled migrants are arriving. Minister Burke is finally delivering his plan to add a million more migrants at the National Press Club tomorrow. He's been running scared from One Nation and his own cabinet because we are putting pressure on the major parties to act on behalf of the Australian people, who have been screaming out for this for years. One Nation is implementing the will of the people on migration, because they have been ignored for far too long. Cut migration, and Australian living standards will go up.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>94</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Bragg, Sen Andrew</name>
              <name.id>256063</name.id>
              <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
              <party>LP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="256063" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator BRAGG</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">17:56</span>):  I welcome the opportunity to make some comments about migration, and I note that, in the Senate tonight, we are probably the most successful migration nation that the world has known, because we have been able to subsume millions of people since the first fleet arrived in Sydney some 250 years ago. Over the last 75 years, I make the point that the Liberal Party has been a party which has heavily supported an orderly migration scheme. If you go back to the post-war period, Menzies in particular presided over the huge boom in postwar migration, which reshaped modern Australia. Then of course, Harold Holt dismantled the White Australia policy, and then we had Malcolm Fraser, who was known as the great humanitarian, perhaps most for his admission of the Vietnamese refugees, who were at a loss because of a conflict which we participated in, while others declined to support their entry to Australia.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">I make the point that, over the last 75 years or so, there has been strong support for building up Australia as a migrant nation, because we've needed people, and that's been done in the last few decades on the basis of nondiscrimination. I think that's an important point to make. Over the last few years, I would say that the confidence in the migration settings have begun to fray. We have seen 1.5 million people come into this country—on track for 2 million—over the course of Labor's term in office. That has been the biggest surge in our migrant population since the postwar boom, and this has been done at a time when infrastructure has not kept up with the amount of migrants that we've seen.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">That's why people are going bananas about this, because the volume of people does not match the infrastructure and the housing that has been needed—1.5 million people and 500,000 new homes. You don't need to be a mathematician or an economist to work out what's gone wrong there. That is why we have pledged that we would link migration to housing completions. If we want to maintain confidence in the migration system, we need to have housing for new Australians as well as the people who are already here. The most important duty of a government is to protect its people. What the government has failed to do is to protect the people who've been here for generations. They've been done over by this migration policy, which is not in keeping with the orderly systems that we've had in the past.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">That's why there's been a loss of confidence, because, quite simply, the government is incompetent. It has let in too many people. It's been desperate for economic growth. It can't get growth out of the economy, so it's got to bring people in. The only thing that keeps GDP going in this country is migration, because their productivity is shot. The economy is cactus. Look at insolvencies. Look at the death of small business. Look at the growth of the public sector under this government. The public sector and migration are keeping this economy afloat in an anaemic way. But this is a per capita recession. It may not be a technical recession, but it's a real recession for most people. That's why people are going bananas. That's why people have lost confidence in this government's ability to manage this important issue.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">I make the point that we need to bring down migration. We need to have fewer temporary migrants. We need to get more skilled migrants. We need to change the mix, and we need to lower the number of people coming in through the system and the people who are already here. At the end of the day, if we want to maintain our ethos as a proud migration nation—a country that's been able to subsume people from all over the world and been a safe haven for refugees and people who have built lives in, contribute to and love this country—then we need to maintain the community's confidence that the migration system is working for Australia, not working for others. The fear in the community is that the migration system is out of control, doesn't work for the punters and doesn't work for the people. And I have all the confidence that the people have it right, which is why we need to link migration to housing completions and get more skilled people in as we reduce temporary migration.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>95</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Shoebridge, Sen David</name>
              <name.id>169119</name.id>
              <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
              <party>AG</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="169119" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator SHOEBRIDGE</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">18:01</span>):  What I never hear in this debate is how anyone is going to materially improve the lives of people here. They phrase this debate about housing, about wages—never do they put forward how they're going to take on the one per cent and make people's lives better. The parties in here—Labor, One Nation and those of the coalition—and their ultrawealthy backers have targeted migrants repeatedly over decades of underinvestment in housing, public health and core services because migrants are an easy distraction for them and their billionaire backers. Migrants don't tend to be massively rich. Some are, but they don't tend to be. Many of them don't vote, and they're just the perfect scapegoat for a political class that refuses to take on the ultrawealthy, so One Nation and Labor are more than happy to gang up on them. We'll see the same thing tomorrow when Minister Burke stands up, with One Nation grinning over his shoulder. We know it's all dog whistling.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">We've actually lived through an experience of net negative migration. During COVID, Australia's population went down—and Australia's house prices rose by more than 20 per cent in just 18 months. Everyone forgets that because it disturbs the narrative. Let's be clear. Your mum's friend from the Philippines who's an emergency nurse at the local hospital had no say over how much of the federal budget went into public housing or health. The family down on the corner who run the grocery shop aren't in cabinet when the government decides to cut NDIS funding. Your friend's partner who moved from Canada to get married wasn't on the phone to Albanese telling him to fast-track AI. The bloke in your local football team who fled war in Iraq wasn't in charge of setting interest rates.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="315170" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT </span>
                  </a>
                  <span class="HPS-GeneralBold">(</span>
                  <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Blyth</span>
                  <span class="HPS-GeneralBold">):</span>  Sorry, Senator Shoebridge; we have a point of order from Senator Polley.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="e5x" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Polley:</span>
                  </a>  The senator should be referring to people in the other place by their correct titles.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT:</span>  Thank you, Senator Polley. Senator Shoebridge, could you please refer to those in the other place by their titles.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="169119" type="MemberContinuation">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator SHOEBRIDGE:</span>
                  </a>  Here's a secret: we all have a lot more in common with someone who came to Australia to be united with their loved ones or flee an oppressive government than we do with the ultrawealthy and the one per cent. We won't fall for it. Australia is proudly multicultural, but it does need to be fairer, and that requires solidarity.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>95</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Blyth, Sen Leah (The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>315170</name.id>
                <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>95</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Polley, Sen Helen</name>
                <name.id>e5x</name.id>
                <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>95</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT, The</name>
                <name.id>10000</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>95</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Shoebridge, Sen David</name>
                <name.id>169119</name.id>
                <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                <party>AG</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </continue>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>95</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Polley, Sen Helen</name>
              <name.id>e5x</name.id>
              <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="e5x" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator POLLEY</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Tasmania</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">18:03</span>):  Labor is proud of the fact that we've strengthened immigration to this country. We understand and we value what immigrants have, decade after decade, brought to our country and to our cities, our towns and our communities. Those opposite, particularly those of One Nation, are opposed to immigration, and they're opposed, like us—we are opposed to people who rort the immigration system. But we're not racist. We know that there's a history that is well recorded in this country of those who are racist and have been for decades. Almost everyone who comes to Australia respects our country, is a welcome guest and abides by our laws and our visa system. But we have no time for those who come here, break our laws and try to game our migration system in ways it wasn't intended to operate. That's why we are building a migration system that delivers skills that we need while ending exploitation and rorts. The Albanese Labor government has been focused on running a sustainable migration program responsibly and in the national interest, not based on stunts and posturing, like the coalition and One Nation.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Nurses, aged-care workers, teachers and tradies all play a crucial role in Australia's society through skilled migration. That's the reality of what's happening in Australia. We've also invested $85 million to better enable migrants to have their skills recognised here more quickly so they can get working in our construction sector and other trades areas. This follows our work to fast-track skills assessments for migrants, which so far has made more than 20,000 migrants available to work in construction and trades.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Since we came to government we've been cleaning up the mess left by those opposite. When Labor came to government, net overseas migration was soaring. Since then we have made sensible, considered changes that have brought down net overseas migration by 45 per cent from the postpandemic peak—which those from One Nation refuse to acknowledge, because they are the almighty who know everything but actually have no real idea. That's why they will never, ever govern in this country.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">I want to talk about One Nation's plan, as they say, to have a well-managed, targeted migration program. Rather than lifting living standards and productivity, One Nation's plan will mean we won't have the workers we need to build our homes, look after our elderly, care for the sick and provide other services that Australians rely on. One Nation's migration numbers aren't worth the paper they're printed on. They say they'd cap net overseas migration at 130,000, but they haven't included backpackers in that figure, so they're already off by 50,000. They say they'd be able to keep the exact number of doctors, nurses and construction workers coming to Australia, which shows they know nothing about migration except their prejudice, because these workers won't come if they can't bring their family; they won't come if they can't bring their partners, their husbands, their wives and their children.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">They say they'll deport anyone without a visa. But when you ask them, 'How are you going to achieve this?' the member for New England says, 'People will just pop up to be deported.' One Nation's so-called migration policy is nothing more than a political stunt that makes a mockery of the Australian people's legitimate concerns about migration levels and the availability of housing services and infrastructure. They are so ignorant to the benefits that migrants have brought to this country.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">The coalition, on the other hand—we had Senator Bragg making his contribution—are over this way one day, over that way the other. We know they've been led around by One Nation. And I understand why the coalition do that, because there are Liberals and certainly a lot of Nationals who are going to lose their seats. But the Australian people are not fools. They know Senator Hanson— <span style="font-style:italic;">(Time expired)</span></span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>96</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Whitten, Sen Tyron</name>
              <name.id>317026</name.id>
              <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
              <party>ON</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="317026" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator WHITTEN</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Western Australia</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">18:08</span>):  Labor has an addiction that is crippling Australia. As this urgency motion notes, the government has added 1.6 million people to Australia since they came to office. That is the equivalent of more than six Hobarts. But Labor didn't build six more Hobarts; they piled those people on top of the people already living in Perth, Sydney, Brisbane, Melbourne, Adelaide—every city in the country. They drove up housing costs to unimaginable levels beyond what so many young people in Australia could even hope to pay. Record rents have dragged people back into poverty. Massive increases in demand for all goods and services mean we are living with the highest inflation in the developed world. With all the signs flashing red, Minister Burke couldn't even get his own party room to agree on cuts. He had to cancel his presser when his own party room revolted. I can't wait till tomorrow! </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Labor has no intention of stopping. Their targets are going to add another one million people in the next four years. That's just their target, and we know how good they are at hitting a target. This is not normal. We lead the OECD in immigration. This is a concerted effort by Labor to hide its failures. They are trying to mask their economic failures by pumping more people into the country to keep up headline GDP. But look at the metrics that are the best indicators of standard of living: productivity and per capita GDP. We have gone backwards under this Labor government. Do they course correct? No, they double down. This arrogant Labor government is planning to keep the pain coming for Australians and has the gall to say that our immigration plan is reckless.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Australians disagree. One Nation is the party Australians trust to get immigration right. We have listened, and we will deliver net negative migration for three years while we reset Australia's immigration system. We have spoken with industry and made sure that the cuts we are making are responsible and targeted. When we make policy, we put the flourishing of Australians at the heart of our plans. This is no different. We want the people who live here, the Australian people, to see their standard of living improve. We want Australians to have the first crack at housing, jobs and a better life. Labor wants another million people in the country. One Nation is putting the Australian people first.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>96</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Stewart, Sen Jana</name>
              <name.id>299352</name.id>
              <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="299352" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator STEWART</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Victoria</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">18:11</span>):  I rise to oppose Senator Hanson's motion. When Australians are under pressure, political leaders have a choice. We can offer practical solutions, or we can look for someone to blame. This motion is another attempt by One Nation to punch down and blame migrants. One Nation has blamed migrants for the housing crisis as well as a drop in productivity. But what One Nation doesn't understand is the difference between correlation and causation. These are not simple issues. There are multiple factors at play, and it requires serious and practical policy responses, not scapegoating.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Labor, on the other hand, understand the importance of our migrant communities. We know that a strong migration system brings in the skills that Australia genuinely needs—nurses caring for our sick, aged-care workers supporting older Australians, teachers educating our children, and tradies building the homes that our communities so desperately need. The overwhelming majority of people who come to Australia respect our laws and make a valuable contribution to our country. Labor is proud of the strength that immigration has brought to our country.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Two weeks ago, I had the wonderful opportunity to meet with businesses in Shepparton, from laundries and agriculture businesses to the advanced manufacturing sector. Their message to me was crystal clear: if migrant workers were cut, especially in those regions, they would suffer. One Nation's plan won't provide a well-managed, targeted migration program. Rather than lift living standards and productivity, One Nation's plan will mean we won't have the workers we need to build our homes, look after our elderly, care for our sick or provide many of the services that we need and rely on every single day. It will make our communities and regional communities pay the price, and for what? An absolute political stunt that makes a mockery of the legitimate concerns Australians have about migration, housing, services and infrastructure.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">That is why this government, the Albanese Labor government, is taking a different approach, managing migration responsibly, sustainably and in line with Australia's national interest. That means welcoming those who contribute to our country and taking firm action against anyone who breaks our laws or tries to game our migration system, which is why we are stamping out exploitation, abuse and rorts in our migration system, from tightening student visas to shutting down dodgy providers.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">When Labor came to government, those opposite had made a mess out of the migration system. Net overseas migration was surging in the aftermath of the pandemic. Since then, Labor has worked hard to clean up the mess left by those opposite. We have brought it down by 45 per cent from its postpandemic peak. Net overseas migration is now 301,000, down more than 45 per cent from the post-COVID peak, and temporary visa migration and international student migration are continuing to fall. That is what responsible government looks like—bringing migration back to sustainable levels while making sure our hospitals, aged-care services, schools, construction sites and regional businesses, like those that I met in Shepparton, can still find the workers that they need.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Australians deserve an honest debate about population, housing and infrastructure. They deserve governments that plan properly, invest in services and act when the system is being misused. What they do not deserve is a motion that reduces every challenge to one cause and treats people who have chosen to call Australia home as a problem. Migrants are our neighbours, our colleagues, our carers and our small-business owners. In regional communities, they also keep farms, factories, hospitality venues and other local businesses operating when employers cannot find enough workers locally. They are part of the communities that we represent, and they should not be used as a convenient target when the policy questions before us demand serious answers.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">We will keep doing the hard work of managing migration in the national interest. We will not support scapegoating dressed up as policy, and we will not support this motion.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>97</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Bell, Sen Sean</name>
              <name.id>319142</name.id>
              <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
              <party>ON</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="319142" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator BELL</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">One Nation Whip</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">18:16</span>):  The motion before the Senate is straightforward. It calls on the Albanese Labor government to abandon mass migration policies that will add another one million people to the Australian population over the next four years on top of the population growth Australia has already experienced since Labor came to office. The question for the government is very simple: do you really believe Australia can keep adding people at this pace when housing, infrastructure and essential services are already struggling to keep up?</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Since June 2020, Australia's population has risen from about 26 million to 27.8 million. Net overseas migration has been the major driver of this population explosion. The government's own budget forecasts net overseas migration of 245,000 next financial year, followed by 225,000 a year after that. That is if you can believe them, because they constantly overshoot those predictions.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">We all understand that regional Australia needs workers and employers need access to skills that cannot be found locally, which is why our very sensible immigration policy that we have put forward this week addresses those issues. Either the Labor government hasn't read them or they're choosing to continue to mislead the Australian people.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">The things that you claim do not justify migration levels that add further pressure to housing and services. The Australian Bureau of Statistics has found almost four out of five temporary residents live in capital cities, with half in Sydney and Melbourne. Among international students, 62 per cent live in those two cities. So these large temporary migration numbers cannot simply be justified as being necessary for regional Australia. That's absurd. It shows your argument to be absurd. One Nation's position is that any immigration should reflect Australia's need and capacity. Where there is a genuine skills shortage, fill it. Where regions need workers, provide them. We also must look at training our own workers. We cannot simply use the easy excuse of mass migration to help prop up the GDP that the Labor Party so often falls back to.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">We can look around the world. Canada reduced its temporary resident targets, and they're going forward. Their gross domestic product per capita has gone up. Around the world, we see examples that prove what you say is untrue. The issue is whether Australia's migration intake should continue at your levels, and the answer is no. We hope that the Senate agrees to that.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>97</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">McKim, Sen Nick</name>
              <name.id>JKM</name.id>
              <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
              <party>AG</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="JKM" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator McKIM</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Tasmania</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Australian Greens Whip</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">18:18</span>):  There's something quite sinister going on with immigration policy in Australia today, and it needs to be called out. Here's what's happening, folks. One Nation is pulling the strings on immigration in this country, and the Labor Party and the coalition are trying to outcompete each other to dance to the One Nation tune.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Here is how it's working. Labor wants a bipartisan immigration policy, which means that the Labor Party wants the coalition to agree. This is the very coalition that is currently engaged in a race to the bottom on immigration policy with One Nation—a race to the bottom on who can demonise migrants in the most unfair way. You've got Senator Pauline Hanson driving the bus, and Mr Albanese and Mr Taylor are just along for the ride. Labor is letting One Nation and a Liberal Party that is racing to outflank them on the right dictate its migration policy. This attitude from Labor is craven. It's weak. It's cowardly, and migrants to Australia and First Nations people will pay the price and are paying the price for Labor's cowardice.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">I'll tell you what. When the far right demands migrants be blamed for housing, for wages, for the state of our hospitals, for infrastructure or for the cracks in the footpath outside people's homes—whatever real or imagined problems that migrants are going to get blamed for next by One Nation—Labor's response should be to fight back. It should be to call it out. It should be to fight back, and it should be to absolutely have the backs of migrants in this country, but what does the Labor Party do? It caves. It accepts the One Nation premise. It shifts to the right. It gives the far right another victory and then wonders why the far right keeps on growing.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Let us never forget a couple of things about the Australian Labor Party. They have spent more years in their history supporting the White Australia policy than they have opposing it. Labor invented the torture of indefinite immigration detention, and that history ought to impose a particular responsibility on the Labor Party to stand up against radicalised anti-immigration policies today. Instead Labor is showing Australians that, if One Nation and the coalition shout loudly enough, Labor will retreat. You cannot spend one day denouncing Senator Hanson and the next day let her ghostwrite your policy. Every Labor surrender legitimises the far right.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="315170" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT </span>
                  </a>
                  <span class="HPS-GeneralBold">(</span>
                  <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Blyth</span>
                  <span class="HPS-GeneralBold">):</span>  The question is that the urgency motion moved by Senator Hanson be agreed to.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal"> </span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>98</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Blyth, Sen Leah (The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>315170</name.id>
                <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </speech>
        <division>
          <division.header>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [18:27]<br />(The Acting Deputy President—Senator Blyth)</p>
            </body>
          </division.header>
          <division.data>
            <ayes>
              <num.votes>19</num.votes>
              <title>AYES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Antic, A.</name>
                <name>Babet, R. D.</name>
                <name>Bell, S.</name>
                <name>Blyth, L.</name>
                <name>Bragg, A. J.</name>
                <name>Cadell, R. P.</name>
                <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                <name>Collins, J.</name>
                <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                <name>Hanson, P. L.</name>
                <name>Henderson, S. M.</name>
                <name>McLachlan, A. L.</name>
                <name>Nampijinpa Price, J. S.</name>
                <name>O'Sullivan, M. A.</name>
                <name>Roberts, M. I.</name>
                <name>Ruston, A.</name>
                <name>Sharma, D. N.</name>
                <name>Smith, D. A. (Teller)</name>
                <name>Whitten, T.</name>
              </names>
            </ayes>
            <noes>
              <num.votes>30</num.votes>
              <title>NOES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                <name>Ananda-Rajah, M.</name>
                <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                <name>Bleyer, V. E.</name>
                <name>Chisholm, A. D.</name>
                <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                <name>Darmanin, L.</name>
                <name>Dolega, J. (Teller)</name>
                <name>Dowling, R.</name>
                <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                <name>Ghosh, V.</name>
                <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                <name>Hodgins-May, S.</name>
                <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                <name>McCarthy, M.</name>
                <name>McKim, N. J.</name>
                <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                <name>Payman, F.</name>
                <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                <name>Shoebridge, D. M.</name>
                <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                <name>Stewart, J. N. A.</name>
                <name>Thorpe, L. A.</name>
                <name>Walker, C.</name>
                <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                <name>Whiteaker, E.</name>
              </names>
            </noes>
            <pairs>
              <num.votes>0</num.votes>
              <title>PAIRS</title>
              <names />
            </pairs>
          </division.data>
          <division.result>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived. </p>
            </body>
          </division.result>
        </division>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>98</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <debate.text>
        <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
          <p class="HPS-Debate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Debate">DOCUMENTS</span>
          </p>
        </body>
      </debate.text>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Consideration</title>
          <page.no>98</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Consideration</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Normal">Documents reserved for future debate will be listed on the <span style="font-style:italic;">Notice Paper</span>.</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>99</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <debate.text>
        <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
          <p class="HPS-Debate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Debate">COMMITTEES</span>
          </p>
        </body>
      </debate.text>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Scrutiny of Bills Committee</title>
          <page.no>99</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <a href="53" type="Committee">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Scrutiny of Bills Committee</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>Scrutiny Digest</title>
            <page.no>99</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Scrutiny Digest</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>99</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Smith, Sen Dean</name>
                <name.id>241710</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="241710" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator DEAN SMITH</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Western Australia</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">18:37</span>):  I present <span style="font-style:italic;">Scrutiny digest</span><span style="font-style:italic;"> 12 of 2026</span> of the Standing Committee for the Scrutiny of Bills, dated 20 August 2026, together with ministerial correspondence received by the committee. I move:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">That the Senate take note of the report.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">As Chair of the Senate Standing Committee for the Scrutiny of Bills, I rise to speak to the tabling of the committee's <span style="font-style:italic;">Scrutiny digest</span><span style="font-style:italic;">12 of 2026</span>.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The digest contains the committee's consideration of nine bills introduced during the period of 7 September to 10 September 2026, and amendments agreed in relation to five bills. The digest also contains the committee's concluded examination of three previously introduced bills.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I wish to draw senators' attention to the committee's concluding remarks in this digest that relate to the fundamental common law principle that an accused person is considered innocent until proven guilty by the prosecution—known as the presumption of innocence.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The committee's scrutiny of provisions that may undermine the presumption of innocence includes particular consideration of provisions that abrogate the privilege against self-incrimination or reverse the evidential burden of proof. The committee draws attention to such matters under standing order 24(1)(a)(i), which requires the committee to consider whether provisions of bills before the parliament trespass unduly on personal rights and liberties.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The privilege against self-incrimination protects individuals from being compelled to answer questions or produce documents or other material that may be used to establish their criminal liability. However, in some circumstances, legislation may require individuals to provide such information or material despite the risk of self-incrimination, with penalties attaching to a failure to comply.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">As abrogation of the privilege against self-incrimination may represent a serious loss of personal liberty, the committee considers that any such abrogation should be supported by cogent justification. The committee accords particular weight to the inclusion of the full protection afforded by both 'use' and 'derivative use' immunities when considering whether an abrogation is adequately justified.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Absent the protection of a derivative use immunity, authorities may rely on a person's evidence to identify other material that facilitates the case against them, thereby requiring individuals to assist in the establishment of their own criminal liability. This scrutiny issue arose in the committee's consideration of the Interactive Gambling Amendment (Gambling Reform) Bill 2026, now an act. The bill empowers the Australian Communications and Media Authority, or ACMA, to require persons and entities to provide certain information or documents, notwithstanding that compliance may tend to incriminate an individual.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">In <span style="font-style:italic;">Scrutiny digest </span><span style="font-style:italic;">9</span><span style="font-style:italic;"> of 2026</span>, the committee queried the absence of a derivative use immunity. Having considered the minister's response, the committee has noted that the stated alternative safeguards do not provide protection equivalent to that given by use and derivative use immunities together. However, as the bill has passed both houses of the parliament, the committee made no further comment. Similarly, the committee will generally raise scrutiny concerns where exceptions to criminal offences require a defendant to raise evidence disproving elements of an offence. These reversed burden offences depart from the common-law requirement that the prosecution prove all elements of an offence beyond a reasonable doubt. The committee's expectation is that explanatory memoranda set out why the matters relevant to the exceptions are peculiar within the defendant's knowledge or are otherwise more difficult or costly for the prosecution to disprove.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The Trade and Investment Agreements (Consultation) Bill 2026 contains provisions which reverse the evidential burden of proof. This bill would authorise the disclosure of protected information to members of the Trade Advisory Group and provide offences for the unauthorised disclosure of this information. In <span style="font-style:italic;">Scrutiny digest </span><span style="font-style:italic;">9</span><span style="font-style:italic;"> of 2026</span>, the committee queried the appropriateness of exemptions to the offences that reversed the evidential burden of proof. Having considered the minister's response, the committee has concluded that the explanatory materials do not adequately justify the reversal of the evidential burden. The committee has therefore drawn the provisions to the attention of senators. With these comments, I commend the committee's <span style="font-style:italic;">Scrutiny digest 12 of 2026</span> to the Senate.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Question agreed to.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
        </subdebate.2>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade References Committee</title>
          <page.no>100</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <a href="42" type="Committee">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade References Committee</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>Report</title>
            <page.no>100</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Report</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>100</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Collins, Sen Jessica</name>
                <name.id>297964</name.id>
                <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="297964" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator COLLINS</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Deputy Opposition Whip in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">18:42</span>):  I present an interim report of the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade References Committee on the management of Defence estate assets, together with accompanying documents, and I move:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">That the Senate take note of the report.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">On 11 March 2026, the Senate referred the inquiry into the management of Defence estate assets to the Senate Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade References Committee, and, as chair, I present the interim report today. This inquiry examined the planning, management, utilisation and disposal of Defence estate assets, with reference to the alignment of Defence estate planning with defence requirements; the processes for planning and conducting the disposal; the impact on the permanent forces, reserve forces and cadet units; the financial assumptions underpinning the divestment; the impact on the veteran and community connections to sites of military service; and the validity of the audit's findings. I can tell you that the government absolutely abysmally failed on all accounts.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The committee conducted diligent research and witness questioning. We heard from hundreds of witnesses and numerous community, defence and veterans organisations from all around the Australia. We did the consultations that the government wouldn't do. The committee has visited Defence sites in New South Wales, Victoria and Tasmania and we have more planned in Western Australia, South Australia and the Northern Territory. We have received overwhelming evidence pointing at three very clear conclusions: the divestment does not make sense, the work has not been done and the case has not been made. The committee did not hear from one witness who would recommend the full or partial divestment of the 68 sites listed in the Defence estate audit. The committee did not hear that the divestment would enhance Australia's security and it did not hear evidence that the divestment will help Labor's budget deficits.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The Defence estate audit on which this divestment was predicated suffered from political interference to predetermine an outcome. The Deputy Prime Minister reached a conclusion and then instructed an audit to take place so that it would reach that same conclusion. That audit was undertaken by persons unqualified to audit a corner store, let alone Australia's entire defence posture, so it of course reached un-Australian and illogical conclusions. They were not auditors—they admitted that—and they were not independent—we proved that—so it was not a real review. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The Defence Strategic Review was also manipulated as a justification for this audit, and in fact it did not even recommend it. The Defence Strategic Review said 'invest', not 'divest'. It said to remember the importance of the foundational estate. Yet, the government did the opposite and said, 'Flog it all off.' </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The auditors also went beyond the terms of reference in this independent audit review of the defence estate. They started a cultural assault on the Australian Defence Force. They put business process improvements—consultants and bureaucracy are taking over Defence. They recommended in the audit report to change the defence base names so there was no longer any reference to history or the identities underpinning these wonderful units of ours, these bases, and instead homogenising all the bases to geographic locations. This is the socialist scrubbing of military history and links to His Majesty. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Part of the defence minister's rationale for selling bases like Victoria Barracks Sydney was that they were not open enough to the community. I can tell you that I have been on their tours at Victoria Barracks Sydney. They are open every single week, giving amazing two-hour tours. I was there on Saturday night at Beats at the Barracks, along with about a thousand other people. It was an amazing night. I'll tell you what: you can walk and chew gum at the same time. These bases are open to the community while remaining fully operational and strategic bases. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The financials do not stack up. There is a false claim that Victoria Barracks Sydney is more expensive to run than Defence Plaza Sydney, where they're trying to cram in all of our serving personnel. They have not done the numbers on the costing of selling the bases or on consolidating, and they will not give us those numbers. They also haven't done the logistics. We heard evidence time and time again. There is no plan. There is no plan for a plan. They haven't done the work. They don't know where they're going to put all these people. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Tasmania, we heard, is being abandoned—absolutely abandoned—by this government. Cadets are being abandoned by this government. This government knows what it's going to do to those young people. Cadets has given some of these kids a second chance at life, and they're taking that away from them. Reserves—they're going to kill reserves and the access to reserves right across the country. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">There were no consultations whatsoever with the RSLs, with the serving personnel, with the communities attached to these bases or with the veterans either. They gagged the Defence Force. We went around to the consultations the government wouldn't do, and I'm here to send a very loud message to this government on behalf of all of those people. We say 'no'. These are fully operational, highly strategic and nationally significant bases, and this is nothing more than a short-sighted cash grab by a government addicted to spending your money on all the wrong things. The committee did not hear that divestment would enhance Australia's security, and it heard no evidence that the divestment will help Labor's budget deficits. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">This is an egregious and dangerous undertaking by the Deputy Prime Minister, Richard Marles. He chose to sell the spiritual home of the Army, Victoria Barracks, and the spiritual home of the Air Force, RAAF Base Point Cook. He will crush the cadet corps around the country. He will remove reserves from accessible locations—all of this, as I said, with no consultation, no plan and no respect. With this government's track record on veterans this year, we should expect no less. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">This 'cart before the horse' approach exposes the defence of Australia to severe strategic vulnerabilities, and that vulnerability is of this Deputy Prime Minister's making. The committee found that a significant number of the properties listed for divestment still hold strategic value. Of course they do—the Department of Defence did not recommend their sale for very good reason. The government, the minister, made the decision to put places like Victoria Barracks up for sale and on the chopping block. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">As I said, many of these sites are fully operational, highly strategic and nationally significant. They enhance Australia's counterterrorism security posture and provide assistance in natural disasters and major event management. This interim report makes very clear that, by selling all these bases, the government will irreparably damage our Anzac legacy and heritage. These buildings, these parade grounds, these runways and these training fields are the living link to Australia's military prestige, built by our forebears and made sacred by the legendary Anzac generation that came before us, yet the Deputy Prime Minister would see these places go to ruin. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The committee heard compelling evidence that, once these sites are transferred from government ownership, they are often completely destroyed, at best covered in graffiti, or we'll see apartment blocks built on top of these parade grounds right across Australia—our sacred parade grounds. The committee heard no compelling evidence that the government has a plan for this transitional management nor any assurances that places like Victoria Barracks, Sydney or Melbourne or Brisbane, would be protected from foreign property developers or ruin.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Prime Minister Albanese's own cultural revolution will be the cultural destruction and the darkest stain on his already poor legacy. The divestment of our active military bases will reduce Australia's resilience in peacetime for counterterrorism and disaster recovery operations and leaves us exposed in the future with less liability to counter growing strategic threats. The committee heard evidence that the real reason the government's selling off our bases is not investment in the northern security of Australia, as the Defence Strategic Review recommended. Instead, this committee heard that the gross goal of the sales is to fix a problem not found in defence but at the Expenditure Review Committee. The failure of the Deputy Prime Minister at that committee to get the money he needs for defence capability and investment must not come at the cost of Australia's security nor spit in the face of Australia's connection to fallen Australian war heroes.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The government, throughout the committee's inquiry, has failed time and time again to provide departmental evidence in a concise, timely and respectful manner. Financial evidence has been hidden, strategic rationales have been declined, and the most simple of inquiries have been stonewalled for no good reason. Obstruction is a very good word to describe their participation in this inquiry, and the interim report I tabled today has 11 recommendations, but, most importantly, the committee adopted recommendation No. 1 number one, demanding that the Australian government immediately halt the mass divestment program of Australia's foundational defence estate.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I call on the government today, for the first time throughout their campaign to sell off our strategic assets, to listen. Listen to the Australian people as we have done. Do not sell these defence assets. We must protect them from the government that is hell bent on ripping out— <span style="font-style:italic;">(Time expired)</span></span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>101</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Shoebridge, Sen David</name>
                <name.id>169119</name.id>
                <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                <party>AG</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="169119" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator SHOEBRIDGE</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">18:52</span>):  This has been an important inquiry, and the Greens support the interim report from the committee, and we're glad that we initiated this inquiry with the support of a majority in the Senate. Given what we heard in the inquiry, we can now see more clearly why the Albanese Labor government opposed the establishment of this inquiry. This government has a lot to hide and a lot to be ashamed of in this sorry and grubby plan to privatise 67 defence sites.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">One critical point that came clearly from the overwhelming majority of witnesses and submissions is this land should not be sold. Witness after witness said we should keep public land in public hands. While the interim report notes the many negative and real impacts of this privatisation push on defence capability, what probably could do with more highlighting is the impact on the broader community of the loss of so much important public land, whether it's the historic Victoria Barracks in the heart of my beautiful hometown of Sydney, the much loved Lancer Barracks out at Parramatta, again, nestled right in the heart of Sydney, the bluestone Victoria Barracks on St Kilda Road in Melbourne, or the delightful HMAS <span style="font-style:italic;">Penguin</span> at Middle Head in Sydney or any of the sites in Tasmania, Queensland or WA. These sites mean something to the community. There's a connection with them, and we heard that time after time. Neighbours, local councils and the defence community all told us what a tragedy it would be to privatise these sites. To sell these incredible sites just to the highest bidder in some kind of real estate fire sale to, no doubt, a well-connected Labor mate would be a national disgrace. We've all seen this before—where the spivs win and the community pays the price—and we do not want history to repeat.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">If Defence really has no credible use for any of these sites, the answer isn't selling them to the highest bidder, as the Deputy Prime Minister and those raft after raft of senior bureaucrats inside Defence have said is the plan. The answer is to look to see what other public outcomes these sites could provide. If Defence vacates, there's scope, on many sites, for well-thought-out public housing. Others have delightful green open space that could be opened up to the surrounding community. Others have incredible heritage assets that need to be preserved, and you could repurpose them for libraries, community centres or other important public uses.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">We've heard, throughout this inquiry, various groups and individuals highlight the possible alternative community use for this land. This has included keeping the buildings for veterans' support services while protecting heritage, such as the amazing proposal from the Australian National Veterans Arts Museum, which has a longstanding plan to take the repatriation clinic at Victoria Barracks in St Kilda and turn it into a veteran arts and wellbeing hub to keep the defence connection and make this an incredibly important site for veterans and not just flog it off to a developer.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">There have also been calls for the protection of an endangered coastal forest and the beautiful marine environment at HMAS <span style="font-style:italic;">Penguin</span> in Middle Harbour. The Sydney Harbour Federation Trust told us how, in 2005, HMAS <span style="font-style:italic;">Platypus</span> in North Sydney was transferred to the trust as a public park. Multiple other submissions raised the need for more public housing, community spaces and more on these defence sites and to not flog them off. But, of course, there is none of that—not protecting the sites for key ongoing defence uses, not protecting the forests, not protecting the heritage assets and not protecting the green open space. None of that's possible if Labor flog it off to private developers, and that's their proposal. It is an extraordinary betrayal.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Throughout the inquiry, the committee has had to fight for the most basic information from Defence, such as when the so-called Defence audit—and we know it's not an audit, because the so-called auditors said it wasn't an audit. They weren't auditors, and it isn't an audit, but we keep being told by Labor it's an audit. We wanted to know when the so-called Defence audit was first provided to the government, and we still haven't been told. How is that some kind of national defence secret?</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Other information, including when important external stakeholders, like police or councils or state governments, were told had to be prised out of Defence over rounds and rounds of repeated questioning. The answer normally was that they weren't told until the decision had been made. In fact, I think that was the universal answer. No-one outside of Defence was consulted or engaged until they decided to flog it off. That is not how any public agency should respond to parliamentary scrutiny. We're asking these questions on behalf of the Australian people, and Defence may not like it, but they're responsible to the Australian people through this parliament, and their behaviour in this inquiry was scandalous.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">While the initial defence estate audit noted that the divestment of the 67 properties could generate $3 billion in gross revenue, apparently, with associated divestment and relocation costs, the net return is something like $1.8 billion. We said: 'Well, tell us about how these figures came up. How did you get $1.2 billion on divestment and relocation? Where does the $3 billion come from?' They continued to hide. Defence routinely refuses to provide this information on even the ranges of potential sale prices of the properties or any information on the maintenance costs or the remediation costs. They hide behind commercial in confidence or some kind of national security smokescreen. That lack of information fuels distrust in the government. It fuels distrust in Defence, and it doesn't allow the parliament or the public to make any clear decisions or to have clarity on what this so-called cost benefit is of flogging off the land.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I can't help but note the extraordinary request from Defence that information from the inquiry, in a public hearing broadcast through the parliament, and the images of officials should not be shared on social media. Rarely do you see a moment of such damage between public officials, the government of the day and the public. This is worth repeating. The following statement was made by a very senior Defence official who is, last time I checked, paid twice what the senators are paid. Celia Perkins, Deputy Secretary of Security and Estate in the Department of Defence, during the committee hearings, said:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">In closing, I would note for the record that the Defence witnesses appearing before the committee today are pleased to take your questions but do not consent to the reposting of our evidence to social media sites or the reproduction of our likenesses for purposes outside the framework of the parliament and the transparent public proceedings of this committee.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Acting Deputy President Ciccone, I think you were there, and this request was swiftly rejected on the advice from the Senate clerk. What it shows is a deep hostility within Defence to public scrutiny, and that was pervasive throughout the inquiry. Even more disturbing, we now see it seems to be backed in by the secretary of Prime Minister and Cabinet. There is a deep, deep problem on public scrutiny in this government.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Finally, much of the land slated for sale has a deep connection to veterans and local communities, and the government's failure to engage with communities—to talk with them—or even genuinely work with the three services inside Defence before committing to the sale of this land is hard to comprehend. Defence have undertaken what is known as a 'decide and defend' approach, and that is always a breach of trust. The public's frustration at Labor and Defence's handling of the sale and their behaviour in this inquiry is real, and it's founded in the decisions taken by the government and their repeated and arrogant failure to justify them.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I commend the report and each of the recommendations. I commend them to the Senate and the Australian people.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>103</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Darmanin, Sen Lisa</name>
                <name.id>301128</name.id>
                <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="301128" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator DARMANIN</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Victoria</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Deputy Government Whip in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">19:01</span>):  I'd just like to note the report and seek leave to continue my remarks later.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Leave granted; debate adjourned.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
        </subdebate.2>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Treaties Joint Committee</title>
          <page.no>103</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <a href="76" type="Committee">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Treaties Joint Committee</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>Report</title>
            <page.no>103</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Report</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>103</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Darmanin, Sen Lisa</name>
                <name.id>301128</name.id>
                <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="301128" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator DARMANIN</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Victoria</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Deputy Government Whip in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">19:01</span>):  On behalf of the Chair of the Joint Standing Committee on Treaties, I present the 235th report of the committee.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>103</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Collins, Sen Jessica</name>
                <name.id>297964</name.id>
                <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="297964" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator COLLINS</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Deputy Opposition Whip in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">19:02</span>):  I move:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">That the Senate take note of the report.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I seek leave to continue my remarks later.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Leave granted; debate adjourned.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
        </subdebate.2>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>103</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <debate.text>
        <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
          <p class="HPS-Debate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Debate">DOCUMENTS</span>
          </p>
        </body>
      </debate.text>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Australian Defence Force, Major and Local Community Infrastructure Program</title>
          <page.no>103</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p>
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Australian Defence Force</span>
              </p>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Major and Local Community Infrastructure Program</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>103</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Order for the Production of Documents</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>103</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Walsh, Sen Jess</name>
                <name.id>252157</name.id>
                <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="252157" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator WALSH</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Victoria</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for Early Childhood Education and Minister for Youth</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">19:03</span>):  I table documents relating to orders for the production of documents concerning the Defence reform study and the Major and Local Community Infrastructure Program.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
        </subdebate.2>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>103</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <debate.text>
        <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
          <p class="HPS-Debate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Debate">COMMITTEES</span>
          </p>
        </body>
      </debate.text>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Artificial Intelligence Joint Select Committee</title>
          <page.no>103</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <a href="24203" type="Committee">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Artificial Intelligence Joint Select Committee</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>Membership</title>
            <page.no>103</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Membership</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>103</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Ciccone, Sen Raff (The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>281503</name.id>
                <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="281503" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT </span>
                    </a>
                    <span class="HPS-GeneralBold">(</span>
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator Ciccone</span>
                    <span class="HPS-GeneralBold">)</span> (<span class="HPS-Time">19:03</span>):  The President has received letters requesting changes in the membership of various committees. I draw the Senate's attention to there being two nominations for the one position on the Joint Select Committee on Artificial Intelligence. In accordance with the standing orders, a ballot will need to be held to determine which of the two senators who have nominated is to be appointed to the committee. I understand it is the wish of the Senate that the ballot be held tomorrow.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
        </subdebate.2>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>BILLS</title>
        <page.no>103</page.no>
        <type>BILLS</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <debate.text>
        <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
          <p class="HPS-Debate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Debate">BILLS</span>
          </p>
        </body>
      </debate.text>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Knox Class Action (Facilitation) Bill 2026</title>
          <page.no>103</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <a href="r7539" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Knox Class Action (Facilitation) Bill 2026</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>First Reading</title>
            <page.no>103</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">First Reading</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>103</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Walsh, Sen Jess</name>
                <name.id>252157</name.id>
                <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="252157" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator WALSH</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Victoria</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for Early Childhood Education and Minister for Youth</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">19:04</span>):  I move:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">That this bill may proceed without formalities and be now read a first time.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Question agreed to.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Bill read a first time.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
        </subdebate.2>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>103</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Second Reading</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>103</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Walsh, Sen Jess</name>
                <name.id>252157</name.id>
                <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="252157" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator WALSH</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Victoria</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for Early Childhood Education and Minister for Youth</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">19:05</span>):  I move:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">That this bill be now read a second time.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I seek leave to have the second reading speech incorporated in <span style="font-style:italic;">Hansard</span>.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Leave granted.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span style="font-style:italic;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-style:italic;">The speech read as follows—</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The illegal and immoral Robodebt Scheme, created by the former Coalition Government, caused pain and trauma for more than 400,000 people across Australia.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">It was a shocking and deliberate case of maladministration, perpetrated knowingly by Ministers. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Those opposite said they were going to save taxpayers $4.7 billion through this scheme. Instead, it has cost the Commonwealth more than $2 billion.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">None of us can forget when former minister Tudge said, "We'll find you, we'll track you down, you will have to repay those debts and you may end up in prison." </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">It was a mess left by the former government for us to fix.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The Albanese Labor Government has a strong record of ensuring justice for the victims of the former government's Robodebt scheme.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">We established a Royal Commission as one of our first priorities when we came to government. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">It heard countless tragic stories of people being hounded by their government to repay debts they didn't even owe.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The Royal Commission concluded the scheme was a crude and cruel mechanism, neither fair nor legal. We agreed, or agreed in principle, to all 56 of the Royal Commission's recommendations. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Fifty two of those have been fully implemented, and implementation of the remaining four measures is ongoing.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">For example, we have: </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-SmallBullet" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SmallBullet">Delivered a new debt management program for Services Australia and ceased the use of external debt collection agencies, and </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-SmallBullet" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SmallBullet">Introduced mechanisms to ensure that all new programs and schemes are developed with a focus on the real people who are actually affected by policy change. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Last year we also passed legislation to make social security debt fairer to recipients and fairer for taxpayers, including raising the small debt waiver for the first time in 30 years to $250. Around 1.2 million debts were waived or no longer needed to be raised in 2025-26 as a result.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">We also expanded the special circumstances debt waiver to better protect victim-survivors of family and domestic violence from coercive social security debt. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">This Bill is our next step in ensuring justice for Robodebt victims.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The Commonwealth reached agreement in the Knox class action in September 2025 for the harms caused by the Robodebt scheme, with a cohort of approximately 168,000 class action members. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The settlement makes $475 million available to compensate eligible group members, which can be paid as either fixed payments or by individualised assessment. The payments are intended to compensate eligible individuals for a range of economic and non-economic loss types. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The settlement was approved by the Federal Court of Australia on 23 June 2026 and is the largest class action settlement in Australian history. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">With the Knox Class Action (Facilitation) Bill 2026, the Government is taking action to make sure compensation paid to Robodebt victims under the Knox settlement is received in full.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Under normal circumstances, lump sum compensation payments like these may be subject to taxation, income testing arrangements and Commonwealth statutory recovery schemes. That means amounts may be withheld and entitlements to benefits like social security or veterans' payments, NDIS supports, and aged care contributions can be impacted.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">To be clear, we are not changing the normal operation of this system with this Bill. There are good reasons for it to work this way.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">What we are doing is making an exception because of the extraordinary and unique circumstances of the Robodebt scheme.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">This was an illegal government program which the Royal Commission found knowingly inflicted harm on economically and socially disadvantaged people, many of whom were vulnerable. In its judgment approving the Knox settlement, the Federal Court described Robodebt as a fiasco in public administration and an abrogation of ministerial responsibility and competent oversight. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">In recognition of these extraordinary circumstances, the Government has resolved to exempt Knox settlement payments from the tax, income testing and statutory recovery arrangements that ordinarily apply.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">That means members of the class action will get the settlement payments they are owed in full.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">We could not accept a circumstance where someone loses their pension because they are being compensated as a Robodebt victim. We also will not allow a situation where a Robodebt victim has a debt raised against them because they have received a compensation payment through this settlement scheme. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">We will not have people re-traumatised by the system that inflicted harm upon them in the first place.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">This Bill amends the <span style="font-style:italic;">National Disability Insurance Scheme Act 2013 </span>to exempt Knox settlement payments from recoveries and reductions to the funding of reasonable and necessary supports in participants' plans under the National Disability Insurance Scheme.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">It will also amend the <span style="font-style:italic;">Social Security Act 1991</span> and <span style="font-style:italic;">Veterans' Entitlements Act 1986</span> to prevent Knox settlement payments being classified as income or compensation for the purposes of those Acts.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Other exemptions will follow, including an exemption from income tax, to be legislated before the end of the 2026-27 tax year. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">For many recipients of these settlement payments, interaction with the social security system was itself a source of distress during the operation of Robodebt. It is not appropriate that people should be required to re-engage with those systems, navigate complex assessments, or face uncertainty about the treatment of compensation paid in recognition of harms caused by Robodebt. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">This Bill removes that uncertainty and the potential for further distress. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The circumstances surrounding Robodebt and the Royal Commission process set this matter apart from other cases in which the Commonwealth may be found liable. This Bill should be understood in that context. It does not create a precedent.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">It is important that this Bill pass quickly through both Houses of Parliament to ensure settlement payments to Robodebt victims are not delayed, and I thank parties that have pledged their cooperation in this respect.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">It is a duty of this Parliament to do all it can to address the toxic legacy of Robodebt, and ensure nothing like it can ever happen again. We have to ensure the victims of Robodebt get what they are owed as part of this historic settlement process.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The swift passage of this Bill will demonstrate the Parliament's commitment to ensuring that those affected by Robodebt receive fair, meaningful and lasting redress, and the toxic legacy of Robodebt is banished for good.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Debate adjourned.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
        </subdebate.2>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>National Student Ombudsman Levy Bill 2026, Tertiary Education Quality and Standards Agency Amendment (National Student Ombudsman Levy) Bill 2026</title>
          <page.no>105</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p>
              <a href="r7541" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">National Student Ombudsman Levy Bill 2026</span>
                </p>
              </a>
            </p>
            <a href="r7542" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Tertiary Education Quality and Standards Agency Amendment (National Student Ombudsman Levy) Bill 2026</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>First Reading</title>
            <page.no>105</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">First Reading</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Bills received from the House of Representatives.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>105</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Walsh, Sen Jess</name>
                <name.id>252157</name.id>
                <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="252157" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator WALSH</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Victoria</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for Early Childhood Education and Minister for Youth</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">19:05</span>):  I move:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">That these bills may proceed without formalities, may be taken together and be now read a first time.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Question agreed to.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Bills read a first time.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
        </subdebate.2>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>105</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Second Reading</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>105</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Walsh, Sen Jess</name>
                <name.id>252157</name.id>
                <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="252157" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator WALSH</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Victoria</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for Early Childhood Education and Minister for Youth</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">19:06</span>):  I move:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">That these bills be now read a second time.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I seek leave to have the second reading speeches incorporated in <span style="font-style:italic;">Hansard</span>.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Leave granted.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span style="font-style:italic;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-style:italic;">The speeches read as follows—</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="text-align:center;direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">NATIONAL STUDENT OMBUDSMAN LEVY BILL 2026</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Mr Speaker, this is the first of two bills I will introduce today relating to the funding of the National Student Ombudsman.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The National Student Ombudsman opened its doors in February last year.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">It had been a long time coming.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Students and advocates had been calling for one for decades.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The Universities Accord recommended that we establish one.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The Action Plan Addressing Gender-based Violence in Higher Education agreed by all Australian education Ministers called for it too.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">And this Government acted.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">For over a year now, students across the country have had access to an effective, trauma-informed and independent service focused on them.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">It has strong investigative powers, similar to those of a Royal Commission, to investigate a broad range of complaints.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">It can bring parties together to resolve issues, it can offer restorative engagement processes and alternative dispute resolution processes where appropriate.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">And it can make findings and recommendations for university action and monitor the implementation of those recommendations.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">It doesn't cost students anything.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">But it can make a big difference for them.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">We're now seeing some of those results.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">As at 31 August 2026, the National Student Ombudsman had received 7,690 student contacts since it opened its doors.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">And it had resolved 6,016—78 per cent.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">These were complaints which, before the establishment of the National Student Ombudsman, had to be made through a web of individual university complaint systems, or state and territory ombudsmen.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Or no doubt in many cases, not made at all.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">That's why the work of the National Student Ombudsman is so important.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">It has given students a voice in the matters that concern them when they walk through the gates of our universities.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">And its effect is felt beyond our students.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">It's helping our universities too.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The work of the Ombudsman supports best practice amongst higher education providers.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">As one of its statutory functions, it educates the sector on best practice for the handling of complaints.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">80 per cent of higher education providers surveyed by the National Student Ombudsman say that they are implementing systems and making service improvements following their advice.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">It's working. For students and for higher education providers.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">And it's important that it be set up to continue working into the future.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The Australian Government has funded the National Student Ombudsman during its establishment phase. It is now appropriate to move to a cost recovery model.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">That's what this bill and its associated bill do.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">It establishes the legislative framework to introduce a levy on higher education providers to recover the costs of administering the National Student Ombudsman.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The associated bill which I will introduce in a moment will amend the Tertiary Education Quality and Standards Agency Act to provide for collection arrangements associated with the levy and its payment. It also allows for penalties for late payment.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The method for calculation of the amount of the levy will be set out in Regulations to this bill following further consultation with the sector. The bill makes clear that this will be on a costs-recovery basis.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">This move to a cost-recovery model has been part of the design of the National Student Ombudsman since we began discussions with the sector about it in March 2024 and my Department will continue to work with the sector in finalising the methodology for the levy.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Our intent is that the levy will commence from 1 January 2027.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">It will ensure students can continue to access the National Student Ombudsman free of charge, and that the costs of providing this critical service are borne fairly by higher education providers.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Most importantly, it will ensure that the work of the National Student Ombudsman continues into the future.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">I commend the bill to the House.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="text-align:center;direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">TERTIARY EDUCATION QUALITY AND STANDARDS AGENCY AMENDMENT (NATIONAL STUDENT OMBUDSMAN LEVY) BILL 2026</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Mr Speaker, this is the bill I referred to a moment ago.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">It will amend the Tertiary Education Quality and Standards Agency Act 2011 to provide for collection and administration of the levy established in the previous bill, including any penalty for late payment.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">I commend the bill to the House.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Debate adjourned.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
        </subdebate.2>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>Assent</title>
            <page.no>106</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Assent</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Messages from the Governor-General reported informing the Senate of assent to the bills.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">15 September 2026—Message no. 18—</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">
                  <span style="font-style:italic;">Biosecurity Amendment (Improving Operational Efficiency) Act 2026</span> (Act no. 84, 2026)</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">
                  <span style="font-style:italic;">Wine and Other Legislation Amendment Act 2026</span> (Act no. 85, 2026)</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">
                  <span style="font-style:italic;">Treasury Laws Amendment (Strengthening Accountability for Tax Adviser Misconduct and Other Measures) Act 2026</span> (Act no. 86, 2026).</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
        </subdebate.2>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Health Legislation Amendment (Improving Choice and Transparency for Private Health Consumers) Bill 2026</title>
          <page.no>106</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <a href="r7434" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Health Legislation Amendment (Improving Choice and Transparency for Private Health Consumers) Bill 2026</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>Returned from the House of Representatives</title>
            <page.no>106</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Returned from the House of Representatives</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Message received from the House of Representatives agreeing to the amendments made by the Senate to the bill.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
        </subdebate.2>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Universities Accord (Opening the Doors of Opportunity) Bill 2026</title>
          <page.no>107</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <a href="r7501" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Universities Accord (Opening the Doors of Opportunity) Bill 2026</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>107</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Second Reading</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Consideration resumed of the motion:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">That this bill be now read a second time.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">to which the following amendment was moved:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">At the end of the motion, add ", but the Senate:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">(a) notes that:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">(i) students and young people are facing the worst of the cost of living crisis, and 'opening doors' for students is not enough if they are not supported to complete their studies,</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">(ii) students are being shackled by a lifetime of debt which is making the cost of living crisis worse, locking people out of the housing market and crushing dreams of going to university,</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">(iii) the punitive Job-ready Graduates scheme fee hikes, which have led to $54,000 arts degrees, have now been in place for longer under Albanese's Labor Government than they were under the Morrison Government,</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">(iv) while degree costs skyrocket, student payments like Austudy and Youth Allowance remain well below the poverty line,</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">(v) higher education, like education at every level, is an essential public good that should be free, accessible and equitable, and</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">(vi) all students undertaking mandatory placements should be paid for every hour of work they are required to do, at least at minimum wage, not a lesser supplementary amount; and</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">(b) calls on the Government to:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">(i) invest in, and fully fund, higher education for leaning, teaching and research,</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">(ii) increase Austudy and Youth Allowance,</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">(iii) wipe all student debt and make university and TAFE fee-free for all,</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">(iv) urgently reverse the fee hikes and funding cuts of the Job-ready Graduates scheme, and</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">(v) pay all students doing mandatory placements at no less than minimum wage rates".</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>107</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Walsh, Sen Jess</name>
                <name.id>252157</name.id>
                <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="252157" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator WALSH</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Victoria</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for Early Childhood Education and Minister for Youth</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">19:07</span>):  I thank all senators for their contributions to this debate. This bill will help to open the doors of opportunity to our universities for more young people from poor families, from regional Australia and from the bush. It introduces a new managed growth funding system that will provide an extra $3.6 billion and support an extra 230,000 commencing students over the next decade.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">It establishes a new demand driven, needs based funding system to help students from poor backgrounds, Indigenous students and students studying in the regions to participate and succeed in their studies. It also gives the Australian Tertiary Education Commission the power to make decisions on international student allocations for eligible higher education providers each year.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The overwhelming majority of submissions to the Senate Education and Employment Legislation Committee inquiry into this bill support the aims of this bill. As an example, Alliance 2050 support this bill, and, in their submission, they say:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">This Bill is a critical step in implementing the policy and funding framework to deliver the Accord's goals of increasing tertiary participation and equity by 2050.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">James Cook University said:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The Bill has the potential to introduce fairness into educational outcomes by addressing the failed market dynamics in the higher education system that has for too long disadvantaged regional people and places.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The University of Tasmania said:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">It is one of the most important improvements to university funding in a generation.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">In their final report into these bills, the committee also acknowledged this broad support from the higher education sector, particularly in enshrining needs based funding into legislation and establishing the managed growth funding system through the ATEC. The government acknowledges the concerns raised in the committee's report. The government will be moving and supporting some amendments which address many of these concerns. The government notes the recommendations from the Australian Greens, and I acknowledge that amendments circulated by Senator Faruqi go to some of these recommendations. I thank Senator Faruqi for her engagement and collaborative approach to amendments on this bill. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The government also notes the additional comments and recommendations made by Senator David Pocock. A number of these recommendations have been covered in amendments from both the government and the Australian Greens. The government notes the remaining recommendations made by Senator Pocock, and I thank him for his interest in this bill. I also want to thank the opposition for their engagement on this bill, and I acknowledge that they have moved amendments, some of which the government will be supporting. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">This is an important bill. It means more young people from poor families, from the regions and from the bush getting a crack at going to university and getting the support they need when they get there. It will open the doors of opportunity wider. I commend the bill to the chamber. I table an addendum to the revised explanatory memorandum relating to the Universities Accord (Opening the Doors of Opportunity) Bill 2026. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="281503" type="MemberInterjecting">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT </span>
                    </a>
                    <span class="HPS-GeneralBold">(</span>
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Ciccone</span>
                    <span class="HPS-GeneralBold">):</span>  The question is that the amendment to the second reading motion moved by Senator Faruqi be agreed to. It being after 6.30 pm, the division must be deferred until the next day of sitting. The debate is adjourned accordingly.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
            <interjection>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>108</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Ciccone, Sen Raff (The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT)</name>
                  <name.id>281503</name.id>
                  <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
                  <party>ALP</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </interjection>
          </speech>
        </subdebate.2>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Health Insurance Amendment (Incentive Payments and Other Measures) Bill 2026</title>
          <page.no>108</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <a href="r7491" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Health Insurance Amendment (Incentive Payments and Other Measures) Bill 2026</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>108</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Second Reading</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Consideration resumed of the motion:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">That this bill be now read a second time.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>108</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Whiteaker, Sen Ellie</name>
                <name.id>316555</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="316555" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator WHITEAKER</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Western Australia</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">19:12</span>):  The Health Insurance Amendment (Incentive Payments and Other Measures) Bill 2026 strengthens Medicare by improving the administration, integrity and transparency of key incentive payment programs. This bill delivers three key things. First, it places a number of incentive payment programs on a clear legislative footing, providing certainty for providers, for government and for Australians, who rely on health care. Second, it establishes consistent and transparent arrangements for participation, administration and decision-making. Third, it strengthens accountability by ensuring appropriate compliance, information-sharing and debt recovery provisions. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">This bill is part of Labor's commitment to making sure that Aussies can see their local GP with their Medicare card, not their credit card. A number of programs that are supported by this bill play a vital role in ensuring access, affordability and quality across our healthcare system. The General Practice in Aged Care Incentive supports GPS and doctors in delivering high-quality primary care for older Australians living in residential aged care. The Practice Incentives Program supports quality improvement, improved access, better patient outcomes and the uptake of digital health. The Workforce Incentive Program practice stream helps practices build multidisciplinary teams, giving patients access to a wider range of healthcare professionals closer to home. The Workforce Incentive Program doctor stream supports the recruitment and retention of highly skilled doctors, especially in rural and remote communities. The rural advanced skills stream improves access to health care in rural and remote communities. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Finally, my favourite part of this bill is the Bulk Billing Practice Incentive Program, which provides incentive payments to practices that offer bulk-billed services to eligible patient groups. Labor set an ambitious target of achieving 90 per cent bulk-billing by 2030, and we are making excellent progress towards that goal. Everywhere I go, I hear about the difference that our plan to give more Australians access to bulk-billed GP appointments is making for families, who shouldn't have to wait for their next pay cheque to take their kid to the doctor; for pensioners, who should be able to get the health care that they need without having to worry about what they'll miss out on in order to get it; and for the young Australians, who should be able to see a GP without having to put it on a credit card.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">On 1 November last year we expanded the general practice bulk-billing incentive to all Australians and began providing practices with an additional 12.5 per cent incentive payment to practices who bulk-bill every single one of their patients every single time. Nationally, we've seen the bulk-billing rate skyrocket as a result of those changes. At the June 2026 quarter, 84.1 per cent of appointments were bulk-billed. When we came to government, before we made our investment in bulk-billing, the national bulk-billing rate was in freefall, but now, in every single state and territory across the country, we are seeing those numbers climb. More than 3,800 practices are registered as Medicare bulk-billing. That's over 1,400 that previously operated as mixed billing clinics. It means that around 97 per cent of the population are within a 20-minute drive of a bulk-billing practice. That's 97 per cent of Australians that can easily get the health care they need with just their Medicare card.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I'm particularly proud of the bulk-billing rates in my home state of Western Australia. We have traditionally lagged behind much of the country on bulk-billing. It's been a real challenge for my home state and for Western Australians. Since our bulk-billing incentive kicked off in November last year, bulk-billing rates in WA are up almost five per cent to 76.8 per cent. That is something that our government is incredibly proud of and that I am incredibly proud of. Our government is committed to strengthening Medicare, to making sure that every Australian, no matter where they live and no matter their circumstances, can see a GP for free. This is really important for Australians who are struggling with the cost of living, who shouldn't have to worry about their bank balance when they need to see the doctor. Our record $8.5 billion investment in bulk-billing is working. It is the largest investment in Medicare in our nation's history, and it's delivering real results for families, for young people and for older Australians, right across the country and in my home state of Western Australia. I am really pleased to be able to support this bill in the Senate so that we can continue to do just that.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>109</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Ruston, Sen Anne</name>
                <name.id>243273</name.id>
                <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="243273" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator RUSTON</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">19:18</span>):  I too rise to speak on the Health Insurance Amendment (Incentive Payments and Other Measures) Bill 2026. Let me say at the outset that the coalition will not be opposing this bill. We support Commonwealth health incentive payments. In fact, we established several of them when we were in government. We support proper administration, we support transparency, and we support real accountability for the use of public money. Australians have every right to expect that health programs are well managed, that payments are made under clear rules and that taxpayers' money is protected from waste. We'll not stand in the way of this bill, but we do need to be honest about what it is and what it is not.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">At its heart, this bill is about the machinery of Medicare. It sets up a legislative framework for programs that already exist—the Bulk Billing Practice Incentive Program, the Practice Incentives Program, the Workforce Incentive Program—and the general practice in aged care incentive. It is about how those programs are approved, administered, checked and enforced. These things matter, because good administration matters. And these are important programs. They back the doctors, the nurses and the practices that hold our health system together.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">But let's be clear about what this bill does not do. The member for Mallee, Anne Webster, my colleague in the other place, put it best. She called this 'process reform, not patient-care reform'—and she's right, because tidier paperwork does not get one extra doctor into a country town, it does not open or re-open a maternity ward, and it does not make a GP appointment affordable for a pensioner who is choosing between the groceries, the power bill and their medicine. Behind every one of these programs is a simple test: can an Australian actually see a GP, and, when they get in, is it at a price they can afford? On that test, this government gets a big fail.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The Prime Minister promised Australians, by one count 71 times, that all they would need to see a doctor would be their Medicare card, not their credit card. Today that promise is in tatters. Average out-of-pocket costs for a standard GP visit have hit a record high of more than $50 a visit, up from $46.31 the year before and up from $41.90 two years ago—a 21 per cent rise in just two years. All told, Australian families paid more than $2 billion in GP out-of-pocket costs last financial year alone. In some communities it is far worse. Patients in parts of the country are now paying more than $60 just to walk through their GP's door. These are not abstract numbers. They are families deciding whether they can afford to take a sick child to a doctor.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The government will point to bulk-billing rates ticking back up in the most recent figures, and I absolutely acknowledge that. Any improvement is welcome. But let's keep it in perspective. Even now, the bulk-billing rate sits well below the 88 per cent that the coalition delivered in government. It took billions of dollars and a great deal of noise just to call part of that back, and it has done nothing to bring out-of-pocket costs down from their record highs. The real question is not whether the number moved for a single quarter; it is whether it lasts and whether an older Australian in the regions feels any of it at all.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The human cost is already here. In the past year the number of GP visits fell by 1.8 million. That's 1.8 million appointments that did not happen because people said they simply couldn't afford to go. When people put off seeing a doctor, small problems become serious ones. People end up sicker, and too often in an already overcrowded emergency department. Even the government's own department concedes a strain on general practice. Its own modelling shows that nearly one in three GPS would be worse off if they moved to bulk-billing every patient. So this is a government asking GPs to do the very thing its own figures say would hurt them and then wondering why the system is under pressure.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Rather than fix the problem it created, this government has gone after the very doctors who are holding the system together. Rather than fix the problem it created, Labor members have been sending letters to family-run GP clinics, leaning on them to fully bulk-bill. These are small businesses, the backbone of their communities, not political pawns. They're already carrying rising rents, rising wages, rising insurance costs and compliance costs. The last thing they need is to be pressured by the very government that made their job harder.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Nowhere is the gap between the rhetoric and the reality wider than in the bush. As Dr Webster reminded the parliament, you cannot run rural health care on a city business model. In too many country towns there are not enough doctors, not enough patients and not enough of a workforce to make a simple market model work. And when a practice closes or a maternity unit shuts down, people cannot walk around the corner to the next one. A Medicare card does not help if there's no doctor to see in the first place. A rebate doesn't help if the gap fee is too high. And a new name on an act does not help if the local practice cannot keep its doors open. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">What regional Australia needs is structural reform: funding built around access, not just volume; funding that recognises the real cost of keeping care available in our smaller communities; and workforce pathways that help doctors and nurses build a life in the bush, not just fly in and fly out. It needs maternity care closer to home so a mother is not forced to leave her community weeks before her baby is due. Regional Australians already travel further, wait longer and pay more. Their postcode should never decide whether the care they receive is actually going to be delivered. This bill does not change any of that. It tidies the administration of a system that is still leaving them all behind.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">As I said, the coalition will not oppose this bill, but the coalition will be moving a series of amendments to strengthen the bill, and they are as follows. The first is the establishment of an expert advisory group. Far too often, we have seen this government make decisions without proper consultation with key stakeholders, who ultimately bear the consequences of rushed decisions and botched rollouts. This amendment sets out in primary legislation a requirement for the government to establish an expert advisory group with relevant stakeholders to oversee the implementation of incentive programs. We think that is a sensible idea that will help identify problems before they become major issues.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The second is further clarification on the discretionary powers of the secretary of the department and the chief executive of Medicare. The bill enables the secretary or the chief executive of Medicare to approve, vary or reject practice incentive payments on their own initiative. This amendment that we put forward would require that the secretary and the chief executive develop a clear policy framework outlining how and when these discretionary powers would be applied. This would provide greater confidence to stakeholders in terms of when and how these discretionary powers could be applied.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The third is safeguards on autonomous decision-making. This bill enables certain decisions in relation to incentives to be made autonomously. While this might be suitable in some circumstances, we have already seen in other policy areas, such as aged care, how autonomous decision-making without human oversight has resulted in disastrous consequences. This amendment imposes additional requirements on what decisions and actions can be made autonomously, in addition to the requirements already contained in the legislation.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I move:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">At the end of the motion, add ", but the Senate:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(a) notes that:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(i) during the 2025 election, the Prime Minister promised, again and again, that all Australians would need to see their GP was their Medicare card, not their credit card,</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(ii) the latest bulk billing rate still sits well below the 88 per cent reached under the Coalition,</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(iii) the latest Medicare data shows average out-of-pocket costs have risen to a record $50.77 per visit, up more than 20 per cent in two years,</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(iv) the total number of GP attendances fell by 1.8 million visits in the past year,</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(v) these delayed and deferred visits leave Australians sicker, and add to the pressure on our emergency departments, and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(vi) the Government is pushing GPs towards bulk billing despite its own modelling showing nearly one in three would be worse off; and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(b) condemns the Government for misleading the public and breaking its promises on primary care".</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The coalition supports well-run programs, we support accountability, and we will not stand in the way of this bill, but we will not let better paperwork be mistaken for better health care. The coalition wants a strong Medicare, working alongside strong general practice, where seeing a doctor is affordable and where the place you live does not decide the care you get.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Australians were promised they would only ever need their Medicare card. Today, too many of them need their credit card as well. They deserve a government that closes that gap, not one that simply files it away more neatly.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Debate interrupted.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
        </subdebate.2>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>ADJOURNMENT</title>
        <page.no>110</page.no>
        <type>ADJOURNMENT</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <debate.text>
        <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
          <p class="HPS-Debate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Debate">ADJOURNMENT</span>
          </p>
          <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Normal">
              <span style="font-weight:bold;">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT (Senator Ciccone</span>
              <span style="font-weight:bold;">):</span>  It being 7.30, I propose the question:</span>
          </p>
          <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Small">That the Senate do now adjourn.</span>
          </p>
        </body>
      </debate.text>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Labor Government</title>
          <page.no>110</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Labor Government</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>110</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Green, Sen Nita</name>
              <name.id>259819</name.id>
              <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="259819" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator GREEN</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Assistant Minister for Tourism, Assistant Minister for Pacific Island Affairs and Assistant Minister for Northern Australia</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">19:29</span>):  What we've seen over the last two weeks in the Senate from those opposite has been pretty extraordinary. We have seen them vote against the legislation of a policy they previously supported. We've seen them split on policy decisions. We've seen them make announcements but not really make announcements. Perhaps it's just the National Party making announcements. And we've seen from those opposites more calls to spend more but also spend less at the same time. And from One Nation, well, we've seen them reverse a policy on gas reservations—it was something they supported previously—and use language and make offensive comments about Indigenous Australians. Australians can see the really stark contrast between those opposite, who are bitterly divided and intent on dividing this country, and the government, who is delivering real change. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">We know that Australians are under pressure, and we know that the government's job is to ease that cost-of-living pressure. That has been the No. 1 priority of the Albanese Labor government. Our approach has been about helping Australians earn more and keep more of what they earn, while bringing down the cost of essentials that families simply cannot avoid. While those opposite were opposing tax cuts and actually going to the last election proposing to raise taxes on families, our government's been delivering high wages and tax cuts for every taxpayer. While those opposite have been calling things like fee-free TAFE a waste of money, we've been delivering cheaper child care, reducing student debt and delivering paid prac. While those opposite voted against cheaper medicines six times in the Senate, our government has been strengthening Medicare so that you can see a doctor with your Medicare card, not your credit card. We've also delivered $25 scripts.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">While those opposite have opposed wage rises at every opportunity, our government has consistently backed wage increases for Australia's lowest paid workers. It is a very stark contrast for working families in particular. For so many years those opposite opposed any type of wage increase for the lowest paid workers in this country. Our government has backed those wage increases, and, under our government, from 1 July this year, the national minimum wage increase will be six per cent, becoming more than $1,000 a week for the first time ever. Since our government came to office, the national minimum wage has increased by $6.11 per hour, $230 per week, nearly $12,000 per year and 30 per cent. Modern award wages have also increased by 4.7 per cent, delivering a pay boost to around 2.7 million award reliant workers across the country. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">We believe that Australians deserve more, and we believe in helping Australians keep more of what they earn. We know that every Australian taxpayer received another tax cut from 1 July this year on top of tax cuts that we delivered in 2024. More than 3.2 million Australians have had their student debt cut by 20 per cent. We're also ensuring that younger people trying to build their lives and save for home can get ahead, and we're helping them get there. For families, we're making early childhood education and care more accessible, and from January this year, eligible families have been guaranteed at least three days of subsidised early childhood education and care each week. While those opposite have said that child care is institutionalising our kids, we've been delivering for families.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">When it comes to healthcare, this is where we've done the real heavy lifting. The national GP bulk-billing rate reached 81.9 per cent for the first time in the first three months of this year, up 4.6 percentage points compared to the same time last year. In my hometown of Cairns, what that means practically is that there are now 10 new bulk-billing clinics since our bulk-billing changes came in. This is making it easier to see a GP for free. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="text-align:center;direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span style="font-weight:bold;">Senate adjourned at 19:34</span>
                </span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
  </chamber.xscript>
</hansard>