
<hansard noNamespaceSchemaLocation="../../hansard.xsd" version="2.2">
  <session.header>
    <date>2017-08-16</date>
    <parliament.no>45</parliament.no>
    <session.no>1</session.no>
    <period.no>4</period.no>
    <chamber>Senate</chamber>
    <page.no>0</page.no>
    <proof>1</proof>
  </session.header>
  <chamber.xscript>
    <business.start>
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        <p class="HPS-SODJobDate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
          <span class="HPS-SODJobDate">
            <span style="font-weight:bold;" />
            <a href="Chamber" type="">Wednesday, 16 August 2017</a>
          </span>
        </p>
        <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
          <span class="HPS-Normal">
            <span style="font-weight:bold;">The PRESIDENT (Senator the Hon. </span>
            <span style="font-weight:bold;">Stephen Parry)</span> took the chair at 09:30, read prayers and made an acknowledgement of country.</span>
        </p>
      </body>
    </business.start>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>1</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <debate.text>
        <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
          <p class="HPS-Debate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Debate">DOCUMENTS</span>
          </p>
        </body>
      </debate.text>
      <subdebate.2>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Tabling</title>
          <page.no>1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Tabling</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Normal">
                <span style="font-weight:bold;">The Clerk:</span>  Documents are tabled pursuant to statute. Details will be recorded in the <span style="font-style:italic;">Journals of the Senate</span> and on the Dynamic Red.</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Normal">
                <span style="font-style:italic;" />
                <span style="font-style:italic;">Details of the documents</span>
                <span style="font-style:italic;"> also</span>
                <span style="font-style:italic;"> appear at the end of today</span>
                <span style="font-style:italic;">'</span>
                <span style="font-style:italic;">s </span>
                <span style="font-style:italic;">Hansard</span>
                <span style="font-style:italic;">.</span>
              </span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
      </subdebate.2>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>1</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <debate.text>
        <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
          <p class="HPS-Debate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Debate">COMMITTEES</span>
          </p>
        </body>
      </debate.text>
      <subdebate.2>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Meeting</title>
          <page.no>1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Meeting</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Normal">
                <span style="font-weight:bold;">The Clerk:</span>  Proposals to meet have been lodged as follows:</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Small">Economics References Committee—public meeting during the sitting of the Senate on Thursday, 17 August 2017, from 11 am, to take evidence for the committee’s inquiry into toll roads.</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Small">Finance and Public Administration References Committee—public meeting during the sitting of the Senate on Thursday, 17 August 2017, from 3.05 pm, to take evidence for the committee’s inquiry into the arrangements for the postal survey concerning same sex marriage.</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Small">Select Committee on a National Integrity Commission—</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:21.3pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
              <span class="HPS-Small">private briefing during the sitting of the Senate today, from 4 pm</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:21.3pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
              <span class="HPS-Small">private meeting otherwise than in accordance with standing order 33(1) during the sitting of the Senate on Thursday, 17 August 2017, from 3 pm.</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Normal">
                <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>  Does any senator wish to have the question put on any of those proposals? There being none, we will proceed to business.</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
      </subdebate.2>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>MOTIONS</title>
        <page.no>1</page.no>
        <type>MOTIONS</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <debate.text>
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          <p class="HPS-Debate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Debate">MOTIONS</span>
          </p>
        </body>
      </debate.text>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Wong, Senator Penny</title>
          <page.no>1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Wong, Senator Penny</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>Censure</title>
            <page.no>1</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Censure</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>1</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Brandis, Sen George</name>
                <name.id>008W7</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="008W7" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator BRANDIS</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Attorney-General, Vice-President of the Executive Council and Leader of the Government in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">09:31</span>):  I seek leave to move a motion of censure.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Leave not granted.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="008W7" type="MemberContinuation">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator BRANDIS:</span>
                    </a>  Pursuant to contingent notice standing in my name, I move:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">That so much of the standing orders be suspended as would prevent me moving a motion to provide for the consideration of a matter, namely a motion to give precedence to a motion to censure the Shadow Minister for Foreign Affairs, Senator Wong, in the following terms:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">That the Senate censures the Shadow Minister for Foreign Affairs (Senator Wong) for:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(a) causing her Chief of Staff to engage in inappropriate conduct with a foreign political entity for the purpose of causing damage to Australia;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(b) causing her Chief of Staff to interfere in the political process of New Zealand for the purpose of undermining the Australian Government;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(c) misleading the Senate by suggesting that the issue of the Deputy Prime Minister's citizenship arose in New Zealand as a result of media inquiries, rather than orchestration by her Chief of Staff; </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(d) embarrassing the government of New Zealand, and thereby potentially causing damage to Australia's relationship with one of our closest allies; and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(e) engaging in conduct which makes her unfit to ever hold the office of Foreign Minister of Australia. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Mr President, it has been revealed overnight in the Fairfax Media that the engagement of the New Zealand Labour Party in an attempt to undermine the Deputy Prime Minister of Australia and, thereby, to undermine the Australian government was orchestrated by the chief of staff of none other than the Leader of the Opposition in the Senate, Senator Wong. As I said in answer to a question from Senator Wong yesterday, it plainly crosses a line when a serious domestic political dispute—because the argument about the Deputy Prime Minister's citizenship plainly is a serious domestic Australian political dispute—is prosecuted by the opposition through not the processes of the Australian Parliament but the processes of the parliament of a foreign friendly nation. That is what has happened here—by conspiring in conspiracy with a foreign political party, namely the New Zealand Labour Party.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Yesterday, after question time, Senator Wong took the very unusual course of speaking in the taking note debate. In the course of the taking note debate, she suggested that this was all a matter of media inquiry by the Fairfax Media of the New Zealand authorities—nothing to do with her. And yet she made that speech to this chamber well knowing that it was her own chief of staff who was the person responsible for the matter, who was behind the matter—something that was revealed in the Fairfax Media overnight, and has been confirmed this morning, including as recently, I'm told, as a few minutes ago by Mr Albanese in an interview on Adelaide radio. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">To conceal from this chamber her own direct involvement in a matter of this gravity is disgraceful—utterly disgraceful. Surely, if Senator Wong, knowing what she knew, decided to participate in the debate as she did yesterday afternoon, one would have thought that simple honesty would have caused her to at least disclose that fact to the Senate, but she did not. She remained mute about it, and we have to learn overnight from the Fairfax Media that this was the case. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Now, we've chosen the words 'inappropriate conduct' to describe Senator Wong's behaviour, not because, Mr President, those are my words, but those are the words of none other than the leader of the New Zealand Labour Party, Jacinda Ardern, who described the conduct of her own MP—which was inspired and encouraged by Senator Wong's chief of staff, no doubt with Senator Wong's active knowledge and encouragement—as 'inappropriate conduct'. So we have the question of the inappropriateness of the conduct, and then we have the deeper question of the misleading of the Senate. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Now, this is a suspension motion. We want to have this debate, and I ask the crossbench at least to support the procedural motion moved by the government this morning to enable the Senate to debate a matter which, on any view, is a serious political scandal. </span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
            <continue>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>1</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Brandis, Sen George</name>
                  <name.id>008W7</name.id>
                  <electorate />
                  <party>LP</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
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          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>2</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Wong, Sen Penny</name>
                <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="00AOU" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator WONG</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Leader of the Opposition in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">09:37</span>):  Well, this is the latest in the rather extraordinary tactics of this government to try and distract attention from the fundamental problem, which is that the Deputy Prime Minister was elected whilst apparently being a citizen of New Zealand. Let us be very clear about the facts, and I did cause a statement to be issued yesterday, after the extraordinary and disastrous press conference by the foreign minister, one in which her credibility was substantially damaged—and I regret that, because I think it's in the national interests for the foreign minister to have and retain her credibility—and in which she trashed our bilateral relationship with New Zealand. But, after that, I did cause a statement to be issued, and I also have been very clear today in the media, including doing a press conference and an interview. I want to go through again the circumstances which present themselves and make clear that this motion by Senator Brandis is a grubby, baseless smear in an attempt to distract attention from this government's problems. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Now, I want to make this very, very clear. Questions about the Deputy Prime Minister's citizenship have been public for some time, including by way of questions from the media in July and a direct question to him on television. The story became public as a result of media inquiries. This is an extraordinary motion, because it's actually saying that a minister in the New Zealand government is lying—that's what your motion is saying. It is saying that a minister in the New Zealand government is lying when he says—and he's not a Labour minister, and I know you are happy to trash the relationship—'This story became public as a result of media inquiries'. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I want to make clear to the Senate what I said today and what I will say again in this debate—firstly, at no stage did my staff member request that questions be placed on notice in the New Zealand parliament; end of story. Secondly, I was not aware until this story broke—</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="008W7" type="MemberInterjecting">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Brandis:</span>
                    </a>  That's not what the Leader of the Opposition said.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="00AOU" type="MemberContinuation">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator WONG:</span>
                    </a>  Well, I know you like baying about this, George, because you want to distract attention from the disaster that the government is. Secondly, I want to be very clear that I did not know, nor did my staff member, that the New Zealand Labour Party had placed those questions on notice until this story had broken. He did not know and neither did I until Monday—end of story. Now, people can decide whether they believe me or they believe this Attorney-General, with his history in this place, his history of being censured and his history of misleading this parliament. I was not aware. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I absolutely accept it was unwise for my staff member to engage in that discussion; I accept that and I have said so publicly. But what I'm more concerned about, and what I'd suggest to the crossbench—</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="YW4" type="MemberInterjecting">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Ian Macdonald:</span>
                    </a>  Why did you lie?</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>  Order! Senator Macdonald, withdraw that, please. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="YW4" type="MemberInterjecting">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Ian Macdonald:</span>
                    </a>  I did say, 'Why did you lie?'</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>  Withdraw that, Senator Macdonald.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="YW4" type="MemberInterjecting">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Ian Macdonald:</span>
                    </a>  I will, Mr President.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>  Thank you.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="YW4" type="MemberInterjecting">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Ian Macdonald:</span>
                    </a>  Why did you speak this untruth?</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>  Order, on my right!</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="00AOU" type="MemberContinuation">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator WONG:</span>
                    </a>  What I would say to the crossbench is this: I have been clear about what occurred. The time line is also clear: Fairfax Media questioned the New Zealand government and its minister prior to the questions being lodged in the New Zealand parliament. So it is incorrect to assert, as Senator Brandis does, that this story broke as a result of any action of my office. I think it is really very disappointing that the government—and I understand they're in trouble and I understand they want to throw grenades—yet again today, are prepared to risk their relationship with New Zealand. You've had the foreign minister saying she can't work with a Labour government in New Zealand. You've had the foreign minister—and you've repeated it again today—essentially calling a New Zealand minister a liar. It is an utter disgrace the way this government are prepared to trash bilateral relationships in pursuit of their own agenda. <span style="font-style:italic;">(Time expired)</span></span>
                </p>
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                <name role="metadata">Fifield, Sen Mitch</name>
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              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="D2I" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator FIFIELD</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Victoria</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Manager of Government Business in the Senate, Minister for Communications and Minister for the Arts</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">09:42</span>):  In the 13 years I have been in this place I have never heard Senator Wong speak with less conviction. Senator Wong is usually, to be fair, a strong and confident performer in this place. I think colleagues could not help but sense the uncertainty and the extremely careful choice of words in everything that Senator Wong contributed in her five-minute debate. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Colleagues, the motion that is before the chamber, moved by Senator Brandis, seeks to suspend standing orders so that a censure motion can be moved and debated. This is an important censure motion. It is particularly important because it relates to the conduct of the shadow minister for foreign affairs, the person that the alternative government of this nation are seeking to put forward to the Australian people as the individual who would hold the high office of foreign minister. Now, as the shadow minister for foreign affairs, the highest responsibility that the holder of that office, even as a shadow, should seek to discharge is to pursue the Australian national interest and to deal with foreign entities, whether personally or through their office, in a way that supports the Australian national interest. What we have seen through the office of the shadow foreign minister is something that the shadow foreign minister herself has conceded in her own words was unwise. We, on this side, agree with Senator Wong that it was unwise, but we believe that that is not an adequate characterisation of what Senator Wong's office undertook. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Each of us in this place, I think, operate on the basis that we have responsibility for that which occurs in our office, and if something occurs in our office that we don't agree with, that we think—to use the words of Senator Wong—'was unwise', then that requires a response. We haven't seen any response to date, so Senator Brandis is seeking to give this chamber the opportunity to fully debate the matters surrounding this very peculiar activity on behalf of Senator Wong and her office.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span class="HPS-GeneralIInterjecting">Opposition senators interjecting</span>—</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>  Order, on my left!</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="D2I" type="MemberContinuation">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator FIFIELD:</span>
                    </a>  This activity is unwise; it is peculiar; it is inappropriate. It was wrong.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span class="HPS-GeneralIInterjecting">Opposition senators interjecting</span>—</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>  On my left!</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="D2I" type="MemberContinuation">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator FIFIELD:</span>
                    </a>  What Senator Brandis is seeking to do by moving a suspension, in order to provide the opportunity for a censure motion to be moved, is to give this chamber the opportunity to fully debate these matters. It's to give Senator Wong the opportunity to fully answer the questions: what did she know, when did she know it, and what did she do? She has not yet done that.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span class="HPS-GeneralIInterjecting">Honourable senators interjecting</span>—</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>  Order, on both sides!</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="D2I" type="MemberContinuation">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator FIFIELD:</span>
                    </a>  I'm always very interested when the decibel levels rise on the other side. It's usually an indication of a lack of confidence in their position on a particular issue. You can name them one by one, who will come in on cue. But, despite those laughing opposite, this is not a matter for mirth. This is a serious matter.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span class="HPS-GeneralIInterjecting">Opposition senators interjecting</span>—</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>  On my left!</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="D2I" type="MemberContinuation">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator FIFIELD:</span>
                    </a>  The Senate should be given the opportunity to debate it. That is what Senator Brandis's motion to suspend standing orders is seeking to do—to allow this matter to be ventilated in full.</span>
                </p>
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                <name role="metadata">Whish-Wilson, Sen Peter</name>
                <name.id>195565</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party>AG</party>
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              </talker>
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              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
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                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="195565" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator WHISH-WILSON</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Tasmania</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">09:47</span>):  The Greens won't be supporting the suspension of standing orders today, and we won't be supporting a censure of Senator Wong. This is simply the politics of distraction from a government that is teetering on the edge of political oblivion. This is you trying to cover up, with a not very effective smokescreen, your own chaos. If this is your version of a haka—looking your enemy in the eyes—it's not a very good one. It's not a very good one, if this is the best you can come up with.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Two things are really clear to the Australian Greens: the Australian people are sick and tired of the mess that we're seeing in this parliament. They're sick and tired of hearing about this citizenship issue and they want us to fix it. We have, continually in the last two weeks, proposed a solution—that is, an audit of every MP by the Australian Electoral Commission to make sure that these issues are cleared up beyond any doubt. That's what the Australian people want, and I urge the Senate to support that, rather than coming in here and pulling stunts and wasting taxpayer time and taxpayer money.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span class="HPS-GeneralIInterjecting">Government senators interjecting</span>—</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>  Order, on my right!</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="195565" type="MemberContinuation">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator WHISH-WILSON:</span>
                    </a>  The second point the Australian Greens would like to make today is: Senator Wong made a very good point about—I was going to use a word that probably wouldn't be parliamentary—the pathetic press conference by our foreign minister yesterday. That's what it was. It totally backfired. What confidence can the Australian people have in a foreign minister who has picked a fight with New Zealand as a smokescreen for her own party's chaos, who, along with Senator Payne and other members of the cabinet and the Prime Minister, is the decision-maker in this place on behalf of the Australian people and who is committing Australian Defence Force personnel next week to the Korean Peninsula in direct provocation of a madman in Pyongyang, who has made it very clear that that would be a provocation?</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">This is the same government that is presiding over extremely important issues around our national security, around our ANZUS alliance and around potentially catastrophic nuclear war in our own region.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberIInterjecting">Senator Payne interjecting</span>—</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="195565" type="MemberContinuation">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator WHISH-WILSON:</span>
                    </a>  I make this point very carefully, Senator Payne: you expect the Australian people to have confidence in your government and in your foreign minister after the debacle we saw yesterday. People see this as politics. They don't see this as important, policy based parliamentary work. This is politics to cover up for a Prime Minister who is in his last gasp of political power. That's what this is covering up. This is the politics of distraction at its worst. But it's worse than that because it's actually dangerous. We're in a situation now where the Australian people have to have faith in your government's ability to make important decisions. If you want to suspend standing orders in here and get my party, the Greens, to support it, then suspend standing orders to discuss sending ADF personnel to the Korean Peninsula next week in direct provocation of an escalation in North Korea. What we should be discussing, clearly, is de-escalation of and other ways forward in what I hope will be a perfectly avoidable conflict in North Korea.</span>
                </p>
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                  <name role="metadata">Whish-Wilson, Sen Peter</name>
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                <name role="metadata">Hanson, Sen Pauline</name>
                <name.id>BK6</name.id>
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                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="BK6" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator HANSON</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">09:51</span>):  Pauline Hanson's One Nation will be supporting this motion by the government.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span class="HPS-GeneralIInterjecting">Opposition senators interjecting</span>—</span>
                </p>
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                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="BK6" type="MemberContinuation">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator HANSON:</span>
                    </a>  When the opposition has finished! We will be supporting this motion, purely for the debate—</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span class="HPS-GeneralIInterjecting">Opposition senators interjecting</span>—</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="BK6" type="MemberContinuation">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator HANSON:</span>
                    </a>  because I believe the people of Australia have a right—</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>  Point of order, Senator Hinch?</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="2O4" type="MemberInterjecting">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Hinch:</span>
                    </a>  Point of order, Mr President. Can we have some more volume on Senator Hanson's microphone?</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>  Thank you. I'm sure the audio people have heard that.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span class="HPS-GeneralIInterjecting">Honourable senators interjecting</span>—</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>  Order! Could I ask senators on both sides to allow the senator to be heard?</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="BK6" type="MemberContinuation">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator HANSON:</span>
                    </a>  Isn't it surprising that, when I raise something, I wish it to be open for debate so the people of Australia can hear what is going on, what is happening with dual citizenship for many members of this parliament at this time! Isn't it a shame that the opposition is not willing to be open and honest about this. I have listened many times in this parliament to the opposition wanting answers from the government. I remember the time with the Solicitor-General; it was disgraceful what was happening. I believe what has happened here is that Senator Wong has gone and used her office in a backdoor way to get information. This is based purely on the fact that it was only a few days ago that our Prime Minister, Malcolm Turnbull, asked Bill Shorten to join with the government to bring this matter to rest. This is an underhand move. They could have done it openly and honestly to prove to the people of Australia whether anyone had dual citizenship. It was the Prime Minister that offered that in the first place.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberIInterjecting">Senator Jacinta Collins interjecting</span>—</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>  On my left! Senator Collins!</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="BK6" type="MemberContinuation">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator HANSON:</span>
                    </a>  This has been underhand, and it needs to be debated; it needs to be open. I am sick of hearing in the halls of this parliament who may have dual citizenship and who may not. The onus to prove whether they have it or not is not that of the people making the allegation. It is up to everyone on the floor of this chamber and in the other place to prove that they do not have dual citizenship. Put it to rest; the people of Australia deserve this. If you are not prepared to do this—</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>  Point of order, Senator Collins?</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="GB6" type="MemberInterjecting">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Jacinta Collins:</span>
                    </a>  Yes, point of order, Mr President. I would like Senator Hanson to be relevant to the motion before us.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>  As you know, Senator Collins, in a suspension motion, the debate is quite wideranging.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="GB6" type="MemberInterjecting">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Jacinta Collins:</span>
                    </a>  She is not even addressing the issue around—</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>  Order, Senator Collins! Senator Hanson, you have the call.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="BK6" type="MemberContinuation">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator HANSON:</span>
                    </a>  They're not very happy with what I have to say on this whole issue. You've got too much to hide and you're covering up a lot. There are a lot of questions to be asked about a lot of other people in this chamber. Even Senator Wong's citizenship has been questioned. Even Senator Dastyari's citizenship—through you, Chair—</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>  Order! Senator Dastyari, a point of order. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="225099" type="MemberInterjecting">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Dastyari:</span>
                    </a>  I'm well aware it's an ethnic name, but can the senator please address me by my proper title.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>  That is not a point of order—well, addressing you by your correct title is, but I don't think Senator Hanson misused your title. Senator Hanson, you have the call. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="BK6" type="MemberContinuation">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator HANSON:</span>
                    </a>  In all honesty, you get the loudest screams from the people who don't want an open and honest debate. So let's have this debate and expose it for what it is. Stop trying to shut it down, and let the people know exactly what is happening. If Senator Wong has not done the wrong thing, then she can have her say in full in the debate and her colleagues can speak up on her behalf, but don't scream when it's your turn to express yourselves. If it were on the other side of this chamber and the opposition were in government, they would be screaming blue murder over this as well—and I have no doubt about it. So, when you have to answer to the people of Australia—</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span class="HPS-GeneralIInterjecting">Opposition senators interjecting</span>—</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberIInterjecting">Senator Jacinta Collins interjecting</span>—</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>  On my left. Order! Everyone knows that the motion is in relation to a suspension of standing orders.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="BK6" type="MemberContinuation">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator HANSON:</span>
                    </a>  I'll close this. I hope it does go to debate, and I will have more to say about it then. Thank you. </span>
                </p>
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              <talker>
                <page.no>5</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Carr, Sen Kim</name>
                <name.id>AW5</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party>ALP</party>
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              </talker>
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              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="AW5" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator KIM CARR</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Victoria</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">09:55</span>):  This is clearly a desperate tactic from a government that is clearly not able to even control its own backbench anymore, because of its shocking failure to control the chaos that looms throughout this government. This is a government that has failed dismally to manage the affairs of this country, because it can't even manage the affairs of its own party. And it comes to this chamber with this shockingly desperate effort to distract attention away from its bungling—it's nothing more than bungling—of nominations for election to this parliament. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The motion the minister has put before us should be rejected because it is factually wrong. Senator Wong has not caused her chief of staff to engage in inappropriate conduct. Senator Wong has not caused her chief of staff to interfere in the political processes of New Zealand. Senator Wong has not misled this Senate. It is fact that the minister in New Zealand pointed out that it was Fairfax Media that initiated its inquiries and it was Fairfax Media that discovered the truth about the citizenship of the Deputy Prime Minister of Australia. It is also the case that the leader of the Labour Party in New Zealand highlighted the fact that it was not in any way associated with Senator Wong's staff that any names were mentioned in conversations about the Deputy Prime Minister of Australia. In fact, what we should actually look at is a censure motion directed squarely at the Australian foreign minister. We have sound relations with the New Zealand government, our oldest ally, our partner in ANZUS, our partner, of course, throughout the 20th century and our fundamental foundation relationship in international terms. It is the foreign minister Julie Bishop who has accused ministers in New Zealand of lying, of conspiracy. It is the foreign minister of this country who has behaved in a totally inappropriate and totally disgraceful manner by undermining relations with our closest ally. It is the foreign minister of this country who has behaved in this disgraceful manner. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">It is not Senator Wong. It is not her staff. It is Senator Brandis who has come into this chamber in this quite disgraceful and deceitful manner to try and present this as something other than the fact that the government can't even control its internal affairs anymore. Its morale is comedy. It is in complete and total chaos. It is the government of Australia that now is on the brink of collapse. It is not the relationship between the Labor Party and the people of New Zealand, the government of New Zealand or the Labour Party in New Zealand. It is this government that has failed dismally the people of this country. It is this government that is now asserting that there is a conspiracy, treason—this is the sort of language that our foreign minister is using. It's an extraordinary proposition that, in this day and age, this government has become so desperate, so in need of some distraction from its own failings, that it uses this type of language. How can this possibly be sustained in this chamber? How could it possibly be the case that a censure motion is warranted in these circumstances against Senator Wong?</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The censure motion should be against the foreign minister of Australia, Julie Bishop. She is the one who brought the reputation of this country into disrepute, and it is Senator Brandis who has aided and abetted her. Senator Brandis has sought to justify the different actions that are being taken by the National Party in the Senate as against the National Party in the House of Representatives, and we all understand the reasons for that. The National Party in the Australian Senate is, of course, quite dispensable, but the National Party in the House of Representatives is critical to the future survival of the Prime Minister, who, I might add, said:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The Australian people elected the government. Bill Shorten wants to steal government by entering into a conspiracy with a foreign power ...</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">What an extraordinary proposition, that the Labor Party of Australia is engaged in a conspiracy with a foreign power, namely New Zealand. What a joke! <span style="font-style:italic;">(Time expired)</span></span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
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          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>6</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Bernardi, Sen Cory</name>
                <name.id>G0D</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party>AC</party>
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              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="G0D" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator BERNARDI</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">10:01</span>):  I have to say from the outset that I don't believe this is a very productive way for us to start the day in the Senate. There are many pressing issues facing this country. I don't have any doubt whatsoever that every contact was brought to bear to establish the facts about Mr Joyce's citizenship. It is a circumstance that someone has exploited for political gain. I don't think it's interference of a treasonous nature, malfeasance or anything else. I would challenge anybody in this place to say they would not have done the same. I recall that there are members of the government, including the Prime Minister himself, who went to great lengths to contact the then Prime Minister of Great Britain to say that I shouldn't be speaking at a Tory conference when I went over there. We know that people exploit personal contacts for political gain, to smite their enemies or anything else. So it doesn't matter to me whether we approve of what Senator Wong's chief of staff has done. <span style="font-style:italic;">(Time expired)</span></span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>6</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Xenophon, Sen Nick</name>
                <name.id>8IV</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party>NXT</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="8IV" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator XENOPHON</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">10:02</span>):  Mr President, I seek leave to make a short statement of no more than one minute.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span class="HPS-OfficeContinuation">The PRESIDENT:</span>  Leave is granted for one minute.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="8IV" type="MemberContinuation">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator XENOPHON:</span>
                    </a>  I indicate that I've discussed this matter with my colleagues Senators Griff and Kakoschke-Moore this morning. We would not support the censure motion if it came to a vote. We do not support this particular suspension of standing orders because we believe that there has been a de facto debate in relation to it. There is one aspect in clause (c) of the motion that makes assertions against Senator Wong in terms of misleading the Senate. I do not make any judgement with respect to that, but, if the government has serious matters to raise, then that is a separate issue for the Privileges Committee of the Senate. It is a separate issue altogether. So we cannot support a censure motion. I echo some of the sentiments of Senator Bernardi in relation to this.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
            <continue>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>6</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">PRESIDENT, The</name>
                  <name.id>10000</name.id>
                  <electorate />
                  <party />
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </continue>
            <continue>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>6</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Xenophon, Sen Nick</name>
                  <name.id>8IV</name.id>
                  <electorate />
                  <party>NXT</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </continue>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>6</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Hinch, Sen Derryn</name>
                <name.id>2O4</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party>DHJP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="2O4" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator HINCH</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Victoria</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">10:03</span>):  Mr President, I seek leave to make a short statement.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span class="HPS-OfficeContinuation">The PRESIDENT:</span>  Leave is granted for one minute.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="2O4" type="MemberContinuation">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator HINCH:</span>
                    </a>  I'll be supporting the government on this motion to suspend standing orders. I'm not saying that I will vote for them when it comes to the line, because I believe that the foreign minister, Julie Bishop, bowled underarm yesterday. In the past, I've voted in favour of the Greens when they have raised issues that I think should be aired and I've voted against them as well. I do support Senator Whish-Wilson's comments when he talked about the fact that most of the crossbenchers sat over here on dual citizenship and all of you, the government and the ALP, sat over there. If you want to end all this now, get it over and done with and get on with the stuff that Senator Bernardi talked about. Call it; get it over and done with. Let every senator and every member of the House of Representatives put up or shut up. That's the way it should be done. It's been put up by the Greens twice and the government and the ALP have not voted in favour of it. As I said, I'll be supporting the government to let them get up and air their dirty laundry. I do believe it's a smokescreen for 'Crocodile Dunedin', as they call the member for New England now. <span style="font-style:italic;">(Time expired)</span></span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>  The question is that the motion moved by Senator Brandis to suspend standing orders be agreed to. Those of that opinion say aye and those against say no. I think the ayes have it.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span class="HPS-GeneralIInterjecting">Opposition senators interjecting</span>—</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>  I'm happy to call it for the noes if you would like me to call it for the noes. A division will be required in any event. So a division is required.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span class="HPS-GeneralIInterjecting">Honourable senators interjecting</span>—</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>  Just before I put the question, in relation to the request that the noes had it last time, the indication from the floor was 37 no votes. So I think it was fair to call it for the affirmative. But, in any event, I think a division would have been required. The question is that the motion moved by Senator Brandis to suspend standing orders be agreed to.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
            <continue>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>6</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">PRESIDENT, The</name>
                  <name.id>10000</name.id>
                  <electorate />
                  <party />
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </continue>
            <continue>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>6</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Hinch, Sen Derryn</name>
                  <name.id>2O4</name.id>
                  <electorate />
                  <party>DHJP</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </continue>
            <interjection>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>7</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">PRESIDENT, The</name>
                  <name.id>10000</name.id>
                  <electorate />
                  <party />
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </interjection>
            <interjection>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>7</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">PRESIDENT, The</name>
                  <name.id>10000</name.id>
                  <electorate />
                  <party />
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </interjection>
            <interjection>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>7</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">PRESIDENT, The</name>
                  <name.id>10000</name.id>
                  <electorate />
                  <party />
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </interjection>
          </speech>
          <division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [10:09]<br />(The President—Senator Parry) </p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>29</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Abetz, E</name>
                  <name>Birmingham, SJ</name>
                  <name>Brandis, GH</name>
                  <name>Burston, B</name>
                  <name>Bushby, DC</name>
                  <name>Cash, MC</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, DJ (teller)</name>
                  <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                  <name>Fifield, MP</name>
                  <name>Georgiou, P</name>
                  <name>Gichuhi, LM</name>
                  <name>Hanson, P</name>
                  <name>Hinch, D</name>
                  <name>Hume, J</name>
                  <name>Macdonald, ID</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, B</name>
                  <name>Parry, S</name>
                  <name>Paterson, J</name>
                  <name>Payne, MA</name>
                  <name>Reynolds, L</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A</name>
                  <name>Scullion, NG</name>
                  <name>Seselja, Z</name>
                  <name>Smith, D</name>
                  <name>Williams, JR</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>34</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Bernardi, C</name>
                  <name>Bilyk, CL</name>
                  <name>Brown, CL</name>
                  <name>Cameron, DN</name>
                  <name>Carr, KJ</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A</name>
                  <name>Dastyari, S</name>
                  <name>Di Natale, R</name>
                  <name>Dodson, P</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D</name>
                  <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                  <name>Gallagher, KR</name>
                  <name>Griff, S</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                  <name>Kakoschke-Moore, S</name>
                  <name>Ketter, CR</name>
                  <name>Kitching, K</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J</name>
                  <name>Leyonhjelm, DE</name>
                  <name>Lines, S</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M</name>
                  <name>McKim, NJ</name>
                  <name>Moore, CM</name>
                  <name>Pratt, LC</name>
                  <name>Rhiannon, L</name>
                  <name>Rice, J</name>
                  <name>Siewert, R</name>
                  <name>Singh, LM</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, AE (teller)</name>
                  <name>Watt, M</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                  <name>Wong, P</name>
                  <name>Xenophon, N</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names />
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division>
        </subdebate.2>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>BILLS</title>
        <page.no>8</page.no>
        <type>BILLS</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <debate.text>
        <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
          <p class="HPS-Debate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Debate">BILLS</span>
          </p>
        </body>
      </debate.text>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Great Barrier Reef Marine Park Amendment Bill 2017</title>
          <page.no>8</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <a href="r5903" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Great Barrier Reef Marine Park Amendment Bill 2017</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>First Reading</title>
            <page.no>8</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">First Reading</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Bill received from the House of Representatives.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>8</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Fierravanti-Wells, Sen Concetta</name>
                <name.id>e4t</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="e4t" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator FIERRAVANTI-WELLS</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for International Development and the Pacific</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">10:11</span>):  I move:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">That this bill may proceed without formalities and be now read a first time.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Question agreed to.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Bill read a first time.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
        </subdebate.2>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>8</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Second Reading</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>8</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Fierravanti-Wells, Sen Concetta</name>
                <name.id>e4t</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="e4t" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator FIERRAVANTI-WELLS</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for International Development and the Pacific</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">10:12</span>):  I move:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">That this bill be now read a second time.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I seek leave to have the second reading speech incorporated in <span style="font-style:italic;">Hansard</span>.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Leave granted.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span style="font-style:italic;" />
                    <span style="font-style:italic;">The speech read as follows—</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">This Bill makes minor technical amendments to the <span style="font-style:italic;">Great Barrier Reef Marine Park Act 1975</span> to rectify an unintended consequence of the sunsetting regime established under the <span style="font-style:italic;">Legislation Act 2003</span>. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The Great Barrier Reef Marine Park Act provides for the protection and conservation of the environment, biodiversity and heritage values through zoning, issuing of permissions and implementation of plans of management in the Great Barrier Reef Marine Park. The amendments made by the Bill will prevent plans of management that have been made under the Great Barrier Reef Marine Park Act from being inadvertently revoked if regulations giving effect to these plans are repealed and remade to address sunsetting. Plans of management are an important environmental management tool to ensure that activities within areas of the Great Barrier Reef Marine Park are managed on the basis of ecologically sustainable use. The Bill will allow the protective measures in the plans to continue to apply. </span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>8</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Pratt, Sen Louise</name>
                <name.id>I0T</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="I0T" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator PRATT</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Western Australia</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">10:12</span>):  This morning, I am pleased to speak on the Great Barrier Reef Marine Park Amendment Bill 2017 and to highlight the attributes of our Great Barrier Reef. It's an iconic and beautiful reef and, as we know, it's the world's largest. As custodians of it, as it is here on our doorstep, we must take extra special care of this wonderful asset. It's more than 2,300 kilometres long and has more than 2,900 individual reefs. It's critical that the government protect this pristine World Heritage listed area. We need it to be protected because its rich environment is home to so many ecosystems. Not only is it critical to the tourism industry in Queensland; it also underpins the choices that tourists make to visit the whole of our continent. It also underpins employment not only in Queensland but right around the country.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The bill before us, the Great Barrier Reef Marine Park Amendment Bill, proposes a number of technical amendments to rectify an unintended consequence of the sunsetting regime within the substantive legislation. We support these amendments, and they're certainly necessary for the protection and ongoing management of our reef. The sunsetting regime was established in the Legislation Act 2003 and provided for the automatic repeal of some legislative instruments. As has been identified, steps must be taken to preserve some of these instruments. The Great Barrier Reef Marine Park Regulations (Amendment) 1993 sunset every 10 years and are due to sunset in April next year.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Under current legislative arrangements, when regulations are sunset and remade, plans of management within the reef are revoked. That means there are no substantive management arrangements in place in a really important area such as Cairns and the Whitsunday islands. As a tourist to Cairns, I know it's really important that tourism is controlled, monitored and managed so that any damage to the reef does not occur. So, if the management plans were to be revoked as a result of sunsetting, it would require the Senate and the House of Representative to go right through the legislative process again to remake those plans, taking up time and resources for something that's already working very well. This was not the intention of the sunsetting provisions, and these unintended consequences need to be resolved.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The amendments provided for this bill prevent plans of management of the Great Barrier Reef being automatically revoked if regulations giving effect to these plans are repealed. We can see how plans of management can be switched off so they have no effect, rather than being formally revoked. This will allow time for regulations to be updated without the management of the reef being impacted. We know that these plans support tourism industries in the area and are vital to operations. The plans of management assist with the implementation of effective environmental management and ecologically sustainable practices. They complement marine park zoning in that they specifically address issues that pertain to specific areas. This is critically important for at-risk or vulnerable species or ecosystems in need of protection in our reef. The Great Barrier Reef management plans operate in Cairns, Hinchinbrook Island, Shoalwater Bay and the Whitsundays. As I highlighted earlier, they are key tourist areas that need these tools to protect and support the reef. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">This will ensure the ongoing effective management of the reef and surrounding areas. As we know, the Great Barrier Reef is the world's largest coral reef ecosystem, and Labor has a proud and strong record of defending and protecting the reef. Indeed, it was the Whitlam government that implemented Australia's first-ever marine reserve over the reef. I am proud that the last Labor government established Australia's marine reserve network, the largest network of marine protected areas in the world. These sorts of legacies are becoming even more important as the world's oceans are subject to increasing environmental degradation and decline. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">We know our own reef is facing significant threats from climate change—threats that must be taken seriously by our government, but, apparently, you do not. We must do all we can to protect the health of our reef, and the plans of management are critically important to this work and are a very practical tool. So, while Labor support this bill which enables the legacy of the management plans to stay in place, we believe we can go further in protecting our reef and our environment. We can't simply act on these management plans, which deal with very specific acreage on the reef. There's a lot more that needs to be done. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">We must have a government that is prepared to do more than this to protect our reef—and protect it from all sides—and this includes protecting the Coral Sea, which has such a rich biodiversity on the eastern side of the reef. That biodiversity corridor is incredibly important. However, the government is not protecting the Coral Sea. They're looking to wind back ocean protections in the Coral Sea, proposing to gut half of the area that was put into marine national parks by the Labor government. This is a terrible, terrible thing to do. It's a terrible shame. It takes the largest step backwards that this nation has ever seen when it comes to conservation in the Coral Sea.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">We should also be protecting the Great Barrier Reef from the other side. I'm pleased to see that that's what the Queensland Labor government is doing by putting land clearing rules in place to ensure that run-off from land clearing doesn't negatively impact on the Great Barrier Reef. But the federal Liberal government have been supporting the Liberal-National Party in Queensland to not support these protections for our reef, which are aimed at halting the broadscale clearing of the trees and remnant vegetation that are incredibly important for controlling run-off. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Most importantly we need to protect our Great Barrier Reef from climate change. We can see that the government is completely missing in action when it comes to acting on climate change, and it is not doing anything real to tackle the causes of it. Indeed, some of those opposite don't even believe it's real. You are not fit guardians for our Great Barrier Reef. The Liberal government can't be trusted to protect Australia's unique environment, and it can't be trusted with the protection of our Great Barrier Reef. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I take this opportunity in the Senate today to urge the government to do better and to do more to protect one of Australia's most prized environmental assets. I urge the government to stop fighting against responsible land-clearing protections. I urge the government not to undo protections in the Coral Sea and I urge them to act on climate change and to stop the causes of decline in our reef in order to keep it healthy. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Labor can and will do these things. Our environmental commitments go much further in their protective efforts than these amendments before us in the parliament today. Labor has a Great Barrier Reef plan that involves a more coordinated and efficient long-term management of the reef, which is, importantly, properly funded and resourced. What we've put forward includes an investment of up to $100 million to review and improve current management practices in the reef and to consult with relevant stakeholders. This is further supported by Labor's comprehensive climate change action plan that delivers real action on climate change and, in doing so, contributes to global efforts to reduce the harmful effects of climate change on our reef, including the impact of coral bleaching.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">As I conclude my remarks, I want to reflect on the fitness of the government to legislate on these important matters. There was an incident in the House of Representatives yesterday that made it clear that they could not manage their own legislative agenda on these matters. Last night the government lost a vote in the House on this very issue. One of Labor's amendments to this bill was carried by a majority of members, 69 to 61, and the government then sought to gag debate to hide their own incompetence in managing these issues in the House. It was only the second time in history that a government has lost a vote on a second reading amendment against itself. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">We know it's not the first of the failures of the Turnbull government. We've seen many times in the House that they have come so close, and that they hold power in the House of Representatives, at times, by only one vote. Let's not forget that in the House of Representatives a bill to protect penalty rates was lost by only one vote, which meant that up to 700,000 Australians would have been better off had it not been for this government. Let's think about which vote it is that made the difference to votes like that in the House of Representatives. One Mr Barnaby Joyce, our Deputy Prime Minister, perhaps should not have even been voting. He is a dual citizen, as is patently clear, and he is not eligible to sit in the House of Representatives.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">It's a disgrace to see from those opposite what double standards they have. We can see that Senator Canavan has done the right thing by stepping down from the ministry and agreeing not to vote until the matter of his citizenship is resolved, so why won't this government do the same and hold the Deputy Prime Minister to account?</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">What we have seen over the past few days or, in fact, over the entire term of government, is a government in absolute chaos. When we have such tight votes in the House of Representatives, how can any question before the parliament, including legislation such as this that we are debating now, be resolved with any legitimacy at all?</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>10</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Rice, Sen Janet</name>
                <name.id>155410</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party>AG</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="155410" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator RICE</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Victoria</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">10:26</span>):  I rise today to speak on the Great Barrier Reef Marine Park Amendment Bill 2017. We support the bill before the chamber as it makes minor amendments to the act to deal with the sunsetting of the Great Barrier Reef Marine Park Regulations 1983. Under the current legislative arrangements, plans of management made under the act will be automatically revoked when the regulation sunsets. This would mean that there would be no management arrangements that would exist for high-volume tourist areas, such as Cairns and the Whitsunday islands. Given the importance of management plans—management plans doing things like setting limits for anchoring, for cruise ship operation and for wildlife protection—the creation of each plan is a really important deliberative process.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The Greens believe that the chaos and uncertainty that would ensue if these plans were revoked, obviously, is not in the interests of the reef or, indeed, the tourist operators along the Queensland coast who absolutely rely upon the health of the reef for their business. But let's be serious: there is nothing in this bill that will go to the long-term sustainability and preservation of the reef. The government likes to make a show of the Reef 2050 Plan: that they've reduced dredging or that they've reduced agricultural run-off. Senators Macdonald and O'Sullivan tried to pass a motion last week to tell us that the World Heritage Committee did not downgrade the reef to 'endangered' status. But there is a gaping hole at the centre of this government's reef strategy, which is the total absence of a plan for dealing with the No. 1 threat to the Great Barrier Reef—and that, of course, is global warming. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">While we are playing around the edges—yes, we've got to make sure the management plans are in place—they are not going to protect the reef. It's not just the Greens who are saying this. The Australian Academy of Science, the highest science-based body in the country, said:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">At a high level, the fundamental driver of reef degradation now and increasingly in the future is climate change. The impacts of climate change on the reef are already being felt, and action cannot be postponed.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Here's what the World Heritage Committee and advisory bodies said:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Climate change remains the most significant overall threat to the future of the property.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">And the Great Barrier Reef Marine Park Authority, in its 2014 outlook, stated:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Climate change remains the most serious threat to the Great Barrier Reef. It is already affecting the Reef and is likely to have far-reaching consequences in the decades to come.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">What we are seeing is devastation. We are seeing sea temperatures rising due to a warming earth brought on by the greenhouse effect. We are seeing increased risk and the increased frequency of mass coral bleaching and thermal stress. Over the 2016-17 summer, two-thirds of the Great Barrier Reef was affected by coral bleaching. It made our scientists who were observing this bleaching say that all they could do was weep. That two-thirds of the Great Barrier Reef which was affected by coral bleaching was back-to-back with the coral bleaching that occurred in 2016, and it was the fourth bleaching event in 19 years: in 1998, 2002 and then in 2016 and 2017. What is remarkable is that prior to 1998 there had not been an observed coral-bleaching event in the Great Barrier Reef before. So it began in 1998, and now we are seeing it ramp up.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">We know that with a bleaching event coral reefs need at least a decade between events if they are going to have a chance of recovery, and so we saw the recovery between 2002 and 2016. But when you have back-to-back bleaching events—when you have 2016 followed by 2017, and who knows how quickly the next bleaching event is going to occur—that means the death of the Great Barrier Reef. Just consider what that means—what that means to the precious ecosystems of the reef; what that means to all the animal species that depend upon the reef; what that means to the Queensland economy and to the tourism economy; and what that means to infrastructure along the coast if we lose that reef which provides such an important barrier along the Queensland coast.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">So this is the threat to the Great Barrier Reef. And as these threats continue, we know what's causing the coral bleaching; we know what's causing the death of the reef. It's our increasing pollution—the pollution from the burning of coal, gas and oil. So, given the scale of the threat to the reef and given the magnitude of the effect from climate change that's been so clearly identified, you would expect that rather than just fiddling around the edges and making sure that the management plans are going to be back in place, that the government should be putting together a plan that reflects the need to tackle climate change head-on.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">But where is this plan? All that the government's climate change mitigation strategy from the Reef 2050 Long-Term Sustainability Plan says is that it is the government's Direct Action Plan. That's it—that's the government's plan for climate change mitigation. This is literally the only substantive emissions reduction mechanism that the government has put forward as part of the reef plan. Direct action is a policy that has wasted billions of dollars—billions of our dollars—in planting mulga, or encouraging that mulga in north-west New South Wales doesn't get cleared. Look, it's very good that the mulga in New South Wales doesn't get cleared or that some of it is replanted, but we are paying billions of dollars for that to occur while at the same time our emissions from the burning of coal, gas and oil continue to skyrocket. At the same time as well, while we are spending all that money protecting mulga in north-west New South Wales we have ongoing land clearing in Queensland in the catchment of the Great Barrier Reef. That far outweighs the soaking up of carbon that the mulga in New South Wales is doing.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The increased land clearing in Queensland is one of the most extraordinary things that has not been stopped by this government, and it has not been stopped by the Queensland Labor government either. Land clearing in those areas of Queensland has actually increased from 300,000 hectares a year to 400,000 hectares a year in recent years. And it's not just in Queensland: we've got ongoing land clearing in other parts of New South Wales and we've got the ongoing logging of our native forests. Again, if you put together all of these impacts from the removal of vegetation—which is there as a really important carbon store in our environment—that is wiping out any impact of the government's Direct Action Plan. And that's it: that's all the government is saying we need to be doing to tackle climate change. It is a complete fig leaf and it is going to do absolutely zip to protect the Great Barrier Reef.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">So that's what's happening on the land-clearing side. That's what's happening on the government's direct action side. That's all that the Reef 2050 plan says that we need to be doing about tackling climate change.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">On the other side is the government's agenda to absolutely ramp up the use of coal, which is talked about over and over again in this place. We've got a government that is hell-bent on coal, a government that can't imagine a world without coal, a government that is obsessed with digging up every last bit of coal and burning it and, in the process, cooking the climate and destroying the Great Barrier Reef. This is a Liberal government where the backbench insists that if the private sector doesn't actually want to build a new coal-fired power plant, then the government should pick up the tab and build it instead. This is a government that wants to include coal in its definition of clean energy. This is a government that's never seen a coalmine, a coal seam gas field or a piece of coal export infrastructure that it doesn't want to approve.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">This is a government that wants to give away a billion dollars of our money to a multinational coal company to build a rail link to the Galilee Basin. No example stands out more than this. At the same time as we're talking about a few minor issues, minor legislative changes and governance changes to management plans of the Great Barrier Reef, we have a government that, hand-in-hand with the Queensland Labor government, is willing to facilitate the approval, subsidisation and construction of the Adani Carmichael coalmine. Any government that had the slightest bit of interest in trying to do something about stopping dangerous climate change would have ruled out this mine from day one. It's a mine that's being fought and opposed by citizens right around the country. Millions and millions of committed citizens are saying as one, 'We need to stop this madness.' It is heading in the wrong direction compared with what we need to be doing. We need to be protecting our climate and protecting wonderful natural assets like the Great Barrier Reef. This will be the mine that opens up the Galilee Basin to exploitation. The Galilee Basin is estimated to have 250,000 square kilometres of thermal coal sitting beneath it. It's a ticking time bomb. That coal has to stay in the ground if we are going to have a future for humanity on this planet. It has to stay buried underground if we have any hope as an international community of meeting our Paris target of staying under two degrees.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The bleaching of the Great Barrier Reef is occurring with only one degree of warming. That's what one degree of warming has caused to the Great Barrier Reef. Even if we keep that warming to under two degrees the Great Barrier Reef is gone. That's something that I, as a senator in this place, am not willing to accept. That's why we will continue to fight for serious action to protect the Great Barrier Reef. That means being serious about climate change, and that means being serious about planning for the end of coal. The choice is stark: it's coal or the reef. It's a choice between throwing a lifeline to the polluting industries of the past or protecting the future—our future, the future of the reef, the future of our planet—a healthy future for generations to come. And it's well past time for other members of this place to choose a side.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The Greens have been very clear. Our colleagues here, around the country and around the world have been clear that we are at a crossroads. We need to be keeping fossil fuels in the ground. We need to be shifting our energy sources to renewable energy. This is the direction in which we need to head. We could be stopping the Adani Carmichael mine today. We could be stopping it if those on the Labor benches would only stand up and say that they do not support the approval and the construction of the Adani Carmichael mine and that if they were to win government they would rule it out. If they would stand up and say that today, we know the Adani coalmine would be finished. We need the Queensland Labor government to rule it out. For all its talk about wanting to stop climate change, the Queensland Labor government is hell-bent on ensuring that the Adani Carmichael mine goes ahead. We want the Labor Party to join with the Greens today and rule it out. If we have Labor and the Greens together, we can make sure that the troglodytes of that side, the troglodytes of this government, who are hell-bent on coal, who think that coal is the future, can be wiped out along with the Carmichael mine. The Greens will be moving an amendment to this legislation, similar to the one moved in the House by my colleague Adam Bandt yesterday. The amendment has been circulated in the chamber on sheet 8212.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I really welcome the chance to contribute to this debate today, because any issue to do with the future of the Great Barrier Reef is important in itself. We know how precious and important and valuable the reef is, and this really underlines, because of the threats to the reef, why we need to be spending so much energy and time and effort to make sure that the issue of the biggest threat to humanity on this planet, the issue of the biggest threat to those natural assets like the Great Barrier Reef, gets the time that it deserves in this place. We really have to build the case that we, the parliament, have got the power here to make changes. We've got the power here to move legislation that will accelerate that shift to clean, renewable energy and to make sure that we get out of the dirty fossil fuel energy industry that our country has relied upon.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I welcome the chance to contribute to this debate, and I'd also like to acknowledge all the work that my former colleague Senator Waters has done, both in relation to the fight for a safe climate and in protecting the Great Barrier Reef. I hope to see former Senator Waters back here in due course to continue that important work.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">In conclusion, the Greens will be supporting this bill, but we must make it known that without a plan for a safe climate this bill is not worth the paper that it's written on. I move: </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">At the end of the motion, add:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">", but the Senate notes that global warming is the greatest threat to the Great Barrier Reef and calls on the government to immediately take all available steps to stop the Adani Carmichael coal mine."</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>12</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Singh, Sen Lisa</name>
                <name.id>M0R</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="M0R" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator SINGH</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Tasmania</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">10:42</span>):  The disarray that accompanied this bill's passage through the other place last night was by no means the most embarrassing thing that happened to the dysfunctional Turnbull government yesterday, but it was perhaps the clearest example—and there were so many examples—of this government's utter inability to govern itself, the parliament or the country in any manner that doesn't immediately descend into utter chaos.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The Great Barrier Reef Marine Park Amendment Bill 2017 is a fairly simple bill. It corrects a technical issue with existing legislation, and Labor does support the bill. The Great Barrier Reef Marine Park, the world's largest coral reef ecosystem, currently has four plans of management in place. They operate in Cairns, Hinchinbrook Island, Shoalwater Bay and the Whitsundays. This bill addresses those issues associated with the sunset clause in the Great Barrier Reef Marine Park Act 1975, and that has the effect of revoking plans of management where those regulations which give those plans effect are repealed. The changes proposed by this bill are designed to protect this automatic revocation, and the amendments do not have any further consequences for either policy or budgeting.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Labor are happy to support this bill; however, what we are unhappy about is how this little procedural bill is basically the only substantive interest in protecting the Great Barrier Reef that this government has shown since 2013. That is why the shadow minister, Tony Burke, moved a second reading amendment to this bill in the other place, so that the parliament could make clear its belief that the Turnbull government has completely failed to protect the Great Barrier Reef. That second reading amendment read:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">… that:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(1) the Government is failing to protect Australia's iconic Great Barrier Reef by:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">   (a) failing to act on climate change;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">   (b) supporting the Liberal National Party in Queensland in blocking reef protections aimed at halting the broad</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">scale clearing of trees and remnant vegetation; and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">   (c) winding back ocean protection, put in place by Labor, around Australia and specifically in the Coral Sea; and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(2) this Government cannot be trusted to protect the Great Barrier Reef and fight for Australia’s unique environment".</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The government voted against this amendment, as you would expect. But what happened? They lost in the other place by 69 votes to 61. This government lost a vote on the floor of the other place—again. A government lost a second reading amendment on the floor of the other place for the second time since Federation—indeed, for the second time in the term of this government. The Leader of the House didn't just drop the ball on this vote, he couldn't even catch it in the first place. The government didn't lose the vote on this bill by just one vote, either; it wasn't a close-run thing. They lost by eight votes, by over five per cent of all the votes available to the government. Where was Mr Abbott for that vote? Where were Mr Falinski, Mr Entsch and Mr Ted O'Brien? Where were Minister Bishop and Mr Tehan? Where were Minister Chester and Minister Fletcher? Where was Minister Hunt, the former environment minister? Where were Minister Ciobo, Minister Keenan and Minister Dutton? Where were they for this vote? Where was Minister Wyatt? Where was the Prime Minister? Where was the constitutionally illegitimate, as he himself admitted yesterday, Minister Joyce? Where were they? Perhaps they agreed with the amendment—they should have. It was a comprehensive, humiliating defeat again for this government in the other place. It would have been bad enough if the government had happened to do this in isolation, but it happened so soon after question time. The mortification! I can just imagine it. Only one government has suffered such a defeat, and it is this government under this Prime Minister—twice.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">But, to this bill: it's the only example of the government's legitimate attempts to protect the Great Barrier Reef, and it is a very, very pathetic and meagre attempt. Let me note for the Senate that the international community came together between 5 and 9 June this year, in New York, to recognise the importance of our oceans. When the Turnbull government appeared at that conservation conference it went about talking about the achievements of Australia and making its case as to why Australia should be recognised as a good citizen for protecting our oceans. What were the examples that the Turnbull government used to make the case of how good it is at protecting our oceans? They were the protections put in place by the previous, Labor, government, when Tony Burke was the environment minister. They are protections that this government is now trying to remove. At the conference, the government didn't mention that it is actively in the process of removing oceans' protections. You only have to look at what is happening to coral reefs throughout the world to recognise that the health of these areas is of extraordinary importance at this time of global warming. At a time when our oceans are under much more pressure than ever before and at a time when plastics, pollution, acidification and overfishing are all creating challenges in our ocean beyond what we have ever experienced before, what does this government decide to do? It decides to engage in the largest removal of protected areas in the history of any government on this planet. Of all the conservation decisions that have ever been made by any government in history, this government right now is engaging in the largest removal of areas from conservation ever. Look to the Coral Sea, the Osprey Reef, the Shark Reef, Bougainville, Marion Reef or Vema Reef. There are almost none that escape the cuts that this government is making. Half the areas that Labor established as marine national park, this government wants to remove.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The minister has said, completely disingenuously, 'Look, it's not a problem because the boundaries are being kept the same; we're just changing the rules on what you can do inside them.' Imagine if the Labor government took half the national parks established under Malcolm Fraser on land and said, 'Look, it's fine, the boundaries are still the same; you are just allowed to go in now and shoot all the bandicoots.' This is just bizarre and offensive in the extreme, and it's exactly what this government is proposing to do with the national parks that have been established in our oceans.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">When an area is first protected, there is often the political argument about the boundaries and the level of protection, like when Joh Bjelke-Petersen wanted to drill in the Great Barrier Reef or like when Bob Hawke was determined to make sure that we save the Franklin, the Daintree and Kakadu. Once these have been protected, there have been no backward steps. Even though the Fraser government might not have liked some of the decisions the Whitlam government made, once they were made they respected them and there were no backward steps in environmental protection. At the time some World Heritage listings were made, even though the Howard government opposed some of the protections that had been put in place by the Hawke and Keating governments, once Howard came into office they had a decision of no backward steps.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">National parks in the ocean make a real difference and we've got proof that they make a real difference. The proof comes from when the Howard government did the right thing on this. The Howard government established the zoning in the Great Barrier Reef Marine Park. The Howard government—quite bravely at that time, and against the views of some of its own membership—put in some areas where no fishing would be allowed at all and other areas where sustainable fishing would be allowed. And now the science is in on what the Howard government did. Coral trout inside protected areas of the Great Barrier Reef Marine Park have 80 per cent additional biomass above the coral trout in the non-protected areas. It has been established and proven by the Howard government itself that protected areas make a substantial difference in the health of the environment, but this government has decided to break that accord that Australia has observed ever since environmental protection first began.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The 44 large-scale marine reserves that Labor established are the areas that science says we should and ought to protect. The Marine Bioregionalisation of Australia—out of which most of the existing marine reserves are based, including those in the south-east of the country, like around Tasmania—is drawn from integrating multidisciplinary data into a picture of how biodiversity is structured across Australia's oceans. The understanding allows us to know what we need to protect and where the areas most at risk are if we don't act soon. These reserves remain an incredible opportunity to turn the tide on the protection of oceans. These marine reserves are the most comprehensive network of marine protected areas in the world and represent the largest addition to the conservation estate in Australia's history. If left alone, this new network of marine reserves would help ensure that Australia's diverse marine environment and the life it supports remain healthy, productive and resilient not just for this generation but, of course, for future generations.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">But that hope, I fear, is swiftly dwindling. The Abbott and Turnbull governments are the first governments we have had in this country which have been willing to remove areas of protection. We saw it with the World Heritage areas in my home state of Tasmania, where this government sought to get the World Heritage Committee to take areas out of protection. The World Heritage Committee dealt with that application in just three minutes. Portugal—where the meeting was held—described this government's application as 'feeble', and the committee threw it out unanimously. But this government has kept on keeping on, doing this now to the oceans.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">In fact, the Turnbull government is worse on this than the Abbott government. The Abbott government commissioned a review into Labor's marine national parks, and, after all the claims that those opposite made that this wasn't science based, the Abbott government review then came back and said, yes, it was. And then the government decided to gut the protections anyway. This government's own review said the principles upon which these plans were put in place were science based, and yet this government is now looking at making the decision to remove the largest areas of conservation that have ever been undertaken by any country in the world.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Labor has a proud history of protecting and defending the Great Barrier Reef. This includes the Whitlam government's implementation of Australia's first marine reserves over the reef. Labor also more recently established Australia's marine reserve network, the largest network of marine protected areas anywhere in the world. In the light of the extensive loss of coral and significant threats to the reef's health posed by climate change, it is ever more pressing that this legacy be upheld today.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">One important practical tool to protect and support the Great Barrier Reef is its plans of management. Plans of management assist with the implementation of ecologically sustainable practices and effective environmental management, especially for at-risk or vulnerable species or ecosystems in desperate need of protection.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Labor's environmental policy commitments go much further in their protective efforts. Specifically, Labor's Great Barrier Reef marine plan involves more-coordinated and efficient long-term management of the reef that is appropriately funded and resourced. This includes investing up to $100 million to review and improve current management practices in the reef, in consultation with relevant stakeholders, and this is further supported by Labor's comprehensive Climate Change Action Plan, which will deliver real action on climate change and, in so doing, preclude its harmful effect on the reef, including coral bleaching.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">This government has a job to do and should get on and do it, instead of navel-gazing at its dysfunction constantly. It should get back to the consensus that existed throughout the Howard government and throughout the Fraser government. Our Great Barrier Reef has been here for generations. Once an area is protected, there can be no backward steps. A process of protection that began under Keating, continued under Howard and was concluded in the last Labor government is now potentially being gutted by this dysfunctional, out-of-touch Turnbull government. Is that to be Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull's legacy—to turn the Great Barrier Reef into just a barrier? Well, Labor won't allow that to happen. We will always stand to protect the Great Barrier Reef, and we have a plan to do so.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>14</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Whish-Wilson, Sen Peter</name>
                <name.id>195565</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party>AG</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="195565" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator WHISH-WILSON</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Tasmania</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">10:59</span>):  I think I can safely that none of us are going to get to go up into space, look back on this beautiful planet and see what is one of the marvels of this world: the Great Barrier Reef, the single biggest living marine organism on this planet. It is nearly 3,000 reefs, nearly 10 per cent of the world's reef systems. And how amazing would this look from space? How beautiful does it look when we go diving or snorkelling on the Great Barrier Reef or take our children, like I have? But it is actually what it looks like under the water that is truly amazing. The Great Barrier Reef is a sanctuary, a nursery to thousands of different corals, bony fish, algae, marine plants, rays, sharks, turtles and whales.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">It is an absolutely amazing place to visit, and yet we know it is under unprecedented stress and cumulative pressures from overfishing, from land based pollution and run-off, from invasive species like starfish, from lack of protection and from plastics floating in the ocean. Of course, lastly but most importantly, the reef is dying because of warming waters, and warming waters are correlated to global emissions, to our changing climates and man's—I should say humanity's—stupidity.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">If we want to talk today here in the Senate about a management plan for the Great Barrier Reef and we want to look at this legislation then, yes, there are lots of good things we can see in this management plan across these cumulative stressors on the reef. But we are kidding ourselves if we think we can save the reef by just focusing on things like land based pollutions, collecting starfish or contributing money to groups that clean up the plastics on the beaches of the thousands of islands across the Great Barrier Reef. If we don't take action on climate then we know from unprecedented back-to-back bleachings on the Great Barrier Reef that we will lose the reef and it will happen in our lifetime, on our watch. That's a concept that horrifies me. We may actually lose one of the great wonders of the world because of our own short-sightedness and our own stupidity. But I will get back to that later.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I want to talk about a couple things in the management plan that are near and dear to my heart. I want to start with talking about plastic pollution in the ocean. I want to acknowledge today the good folks from Sea Shepherd and Boomerang Alliance who were in the House last night along with a whole group of stakeholders who want to help clean up our oceans. Last night we also had the Humane Society International, Surfrider Foundation, Birdlife Australia and a whole bunch more people, including scientists, who had come together at parliament to meet with decision-makers and impress upon them the fact that we are slowly choking our oceans with the millions of tonnes of plastic that go into our oceans every year. It's not just what is going into the ocean off the coast of the Great Barrier Reef; this is washing up from all around the world.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I know Senator Williams recently went to visit the Solomon Islands, Kiribati and Tuvalu, and they have exactly the same problem. These places are being choked. We are turning the ocean into a plastic soup by our own short-sightedness and our own stupidity.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I know Tangaroa Blue is receiving funds under this management plan to get beach clean-ups in place on the many islands of the Great Barrier Reef. They are contributing that to a national database. But we're not doing anywhere near enough. With these islands what is most troubling and concerning is not what we see on the coastline when we walk on the beaches but what's going on under the water. We only see a fraction of the plastics. More than 60 per cent of the plastic in the ocean sinks to the bottom. The stuff we can see is nowhere near the volume of the plastics that are broken up into microplastics—particles that we know are consumed by the diverse and abundant marine life on the Great Barrier Reef. And those particles have toxins attached to them. These are scientific facts. We have even found plastic in plankton in the Antarctic; the basis of our food chain is consuming plastic.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">This is one of the many threats that the Great Barrier Reef Marine Park Authority manages in conjunction with the Queensland government. But we are not doing enough. Looking at the Great Barrier Reef Marine Park Authority plan, all we can do is clean it up. But we're kidding ourselves if we think that's going to help. Unless in this country and internationally we look at our use of plastics—redesign, refuse and recycle, new schemes that we know will help reduce plastic going into the ocean—then we will never solve that problem.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">There is another issue that's near and dear to my heart. Sadly, the Queensland Labor government recently gave permission to the Great Barrier Reef Marine Park Authority for a 10-year program to set baited drum lines to kill sharks in the Great Barrier Reef—a 20th century technology that's not necessary. Sharks are absolutely critical to healthy oceans. This is just a crass plan based on a political decision to continue to kill sharks indiscriminately. That includes sharks that should be protected, such as hammerhead sharks, which we know are endangered but haven't even made their way onto our endangered list yet. Why does the Queensland government use this technology when we could use smart drum lines and other technologies that can help mitigate the risk of shark attacks? I'm very disappointed, considering how important sharks are to the health of the reef. We know from studies about trophic cascades that if we remove our apex predators on these reefs it leads to all sorts of negative consequences for biodiversity. I'm disappointed that recently the drum line program has been given another 10 years of life just when we're getting close to looking at how we can better manage our marine resources and balance off the protection of human life.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I want to talk a little bit about marine protected areas. As much as I have always supported marine protected areas, I am very concerned about this government's short-sightedness, on the back of a few stakeholders, in removing the protections that were in place under current plans for marine protection areas, especially in the Coral Sea and around the Great Barrier Reef. We should be doing everything we possibly can to increase our protection of the ocean at a time when we know oceans are under unprecedented stress and threats. It boggles my mind, it is not fathomable, that any government would be reducing protections in this day and age. We should be doing everything we can to protect our ocean for future generations. And yet we have before us—it's now in a consultation phase—a plan to reduce protections for marine protected areas. I think most would Australians agree that we need to do everything we can if we are to save the Great Barrier Reef. Let me also be very clear: marine protected areas aren't going to stop coral bleaching. They may help reduce the stressors in these hotspots of biodiversity—and they do; it's scientifically proven—but the reef will die unless we cut our emissions and act on climate change.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Building one of the world's biggest coalmines not that far from the Great Barrier Reef—even putting aside the impact of more ports and turning the Great Barrier Reef into a coal, oil and gas superhighway by running thousands of tankers through these delicate and pristine areas every year, putting them at risk of oil spills, as we know from around the world—will be absolutely devastating to the Great Barrier Reef. And this government is actively courting giving taxpayer funds to a project that will become the biggest coalmine in the world. There should be no new coalmines if we are to be serious about tackling the dangerous emissions that lead to global warming. It is a black-and-white thing. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Why is this government so intent on rolling back renewable energy? Why is this government so intent on sticking its head in the sand on climate change? I know why the Labor Party support coal mines. That's black and white. They don't have any negotiating power on this with their unions, with the CFMEU and others that want coalmines. I understand what their position is; I don't agree with it. We have to be very clear: if we want to protect the Great Barrier Reef, which is what we are debating here today, we need courage, we need some political spine and conviction to move our generation of energy to being 100 per cent renewable in this country. We need to leave coal in the ground. Coal not only kills people but, we know, is killing the Great Barrier Reef.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">It is not about me going diving on the Great Barrier Reef and enjoying that experience with my kids; it is the biodiversity and the abundance of marine life. This is the nursery of the ocean. If we want to have fishing, be it commercial or recreational, then we need to understand that marine protected areas are insurance policies on a healthy ocean for the next generation. We are taking out insurance policies. And to Senator Williams, through you, Chair: of course there may be costs associated with this kind of mitigation and adaption. If you take out an insurance policy, you have to pay a premium, but it is worth it when the risks are catastrophic. If we don't take action to protect the Great Barrier Reef through marine protected areas and through action on climate, we will lose this natural asset, this wonder of the world that you can see from space. It's been there for tens of thousands of years, yet we will lose it in our lifetime.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I am chairing a committee that is shortly going to the Great Barrier Reef, and all senators are invited to join me if they wish to participate. We'll be hearing from scientists, we'll be hearing from the tourism industry and we'll be hearing from the fishing industry—people with different views on this. We collect the evidence and data we need to make an informed report in this Senate. That's what we do. I can tell you from what we've heard already, from some of the world's best scientists in their areas who are looking at warming waters off the Great Barrier Reef, that 25 years ago, when they started measuring water temperatures in the Great Barrier Reef, they could never have predicted not only that we would have the major coral bleaching episode a few years ago but that we would then have back-to-back coral bleaching episodes. That was unthinkable 25 years ago. What is going on with our climate now that we are seeing huge parts of the Great Barrier Reef bleaching and dying? Then there are extreme weather events—another stressor on the Great Barrier Reef. Last year's cyclone—the physical, mechanical activity of the wind and the swell—caused immense damage to the reef that is already, in parts, on its last knees. I should have said that differently, shouldn't I? It is already on its knees. This is the point: these are cumulative stressors. We acknowledge, and that's why we'll be supporting the legislation, that the stressors on the reef are many and they're cumulative.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">But now is not the time to be reducing protections. Now is not the time to be in the pocket of the commercial fishing industry, like this government is. Now is the time to be getting the balance right and actually protecting the reef. If we want fishing for future generations and we want to keep alive the biodiversity that is so essential to our healthy oceans, we need to tackle these big issues and we need to make some hard decisions. That is what the data tells us now. That is what the evidence is telling us.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">If we have more coral bleaching events in the next five years then, the experts tell us, the reef will die. If you were a betting person and I asked you to put money on it, Acting Deputy President, which way would you bet, based on what the data's telling you? You'd be a fool not to bet that we're going to have more bleaching events.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">During the double dissolution last year, I went down to the measuring station at Cape Grim and did a social media video in 120-kilometre-an-hour winds, and I saw that we'd just passed 400 parts per million, Senator Chisholm, through you, Chair—400 parts per million. We are now on track, based on the last year, to be at 420 parts per million within the next 10 years, or possibly even 450. That is what scientists tell us is runaway global warming. We are that close. And it will happen in our lifetime, based on current emission projections. The signs are there. The siren is sounding. Why are we ignoring it? Why have we got our head in the sand? Why have we got our hands over our ears? They're the questions I think Australians are asking. Well, from what I've seen in here, it's vested interests that run the big parties; it's special interests. It's not for the public good that we're delivering a lack of action on things like climate change or marine plastic. We need to step up.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">My party is a party that will stand in here, time and time again, and take the strongest line. To quote an ex-MP, Mr Peter Garrett, who I think I might have quoted twice this week, 'Sometimes you've got to take the hardest line.' When we are facing these kinds of risks and what the evidence tells us, we have to take the hardest line if that's the choice we make—that we want to save the Great Barrier Reef. If we don't, I'd be devastated, and I think most Australians would. So let's at least be honest about it. If, in balancing the risks, we choose more coalmines, and the biggest coalmines in the world, which will have a material impact on global warming, then we've made a simple choice. And it is a binary choice in my opinion. It is black and white: it's the reef or it's more coal. You can't have both; you can have one or the other.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">With each year that goes by, new events tell us that the ocean is in trouble. We have ocean acidification—another thing that, unfortunately, this management plan can't do anything about. If the ocean continues to acidify—because carbon dioxide, from emissions of carbon, is absorbed by the ocean—at the rates that science is suggesting to us, then our corals will also die. I mean, these are black and white.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">This is why I wonder that this government tried to essentially get rid of CSIRO's Oceans and Atmosphere and climate change divisions. I am proud to say that Senator Rice and I—and, I will acknowledge, Labor's Senator Carr, Senator Singh and others—fought really hard to stop that happening. We not only managed to get most of those scientists' job losses reversed but actually got new funding for the climate change research centre in Hobart in my home state of Tasmania.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">But it is nowhere near enough. These scientists are telling us: we need to act. This plan in front of us today helps us manage some of the stressors that we know the reef is under, but—let's not kid ourselves in here today—it's not enough. If we truly want to do something for the Great Barrier Reef, whether we want to fish there, dive there or take our kids there, or whether we just care about having a healthy ocean and about biodiversity and marine life, for the sake of nature and the things that we put value on, then we need to take strong action.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">While we'll be supporting this legislation, I suggest to Senator Macdonald, who is in the chamber—he'll be coming up to the Great Barrier Reef with me in a few weeks' time and others are welcome to join us; Senator Chisholm, you're welcome to join us—that we get the evidence in front of us to make better decisions.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="G0D" type="OfficeInterjecting">
                      <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT </span>
                    </a>
                    <span class="HPS-GeneralBold">(</span>
                    <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">Senator Bernardi</span>
                    <span class="HPS-GeneralBold">):</span>  Before I call Senator Chisholm, I would just remind honourable senators in the debate—and I recognise that there was absolutely nothing inappropriate in how it was directed—not to refer to the chair or any other honourable senators as potentially being a fool or anything else. Notwithstanding personal thoughts, there should not be direct references to the chair in that respect.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I understand that in the context of Senator Whish-Wilson's speech there was no negativity attached to it, that it was just the phraseology chosen in the context of saying, 'You would be a fool to bet against it.' It was personalised, and I just think, if we can refrain from that, it would be advantageous for all of us.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="195565" type="MemberInterjecting">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Whish-Wilson:</span>
                    </a>  Mr Acting Deputy President, I rise on a point of order, just to get this on the record. That definitely is not what I was implying.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT:</span>  I understand that perfectly, and it is just a general caution for everybody that it is easier if we don't personalise these things, even if it is inopportune.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="204953" type="MemberInterjecting">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Gallacher:</span>
                    </a>  What about disorderly conduct?</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT:</span>  You may take that approach.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
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                  <page.no>17</page.no>
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                  <name.id>10000</name.id>
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              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>17</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Whish-Wilson, Sen Peter</name>
                  <name.id>195565</name.id>
                  <electorate />
                  <party>AG</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
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                <talker>
                  <page.no>17</page.no>
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                  <name role="metadata">ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT, The</name>
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            <interjection>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>17</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Gallacher, Sen Alex</name>
                  <name.id>204953</name.id>
                  <electorate />
                  <party>ALP</party>
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                  <page.no>17</page.no>
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                  <name role="metadata">ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT, The</name>
                  <name.id>10000</name.id>
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          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>17</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Chisholm, Sen Anthony</name>
                <name.id>39801</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="39801" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CHISHOLM</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">11:21</span>):  Following on from Senator Whish-Wilson on the Great Barrier Reef Marine Park Amendment Bill 2017, I do look forward to joining him in North Queensland in the week after next. As a Queensland senator—and I identified this in my first speech—the Great Barrier Reef is something that I dedicate a lot of my time to, to ensure that the party has a very strong policy framework when it comes to dealing with the reef. I certainly would echo his criticisms of the LNP federally—this government—and also at the state level, where they have been responsible for degrading the reef on a regular basis.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I just wanted to pick up on something that Senator Rice mentioned in regard to the tree-clearing laws, where she implied some criticism of the state Labor government. I would point out that they did propose to take strong action on tree-clearing laws. Unfortunately, they are in a minority government and couldn't get the numbers to pass that. But I am very confident that they will take strong tree-clearing laws to the next election and, hopefully, they can win a majority government and implement those laws. If we look at the history, particularly with regard to tree clearing, it has been Labor governments at the state level that have taken action—first under Peter Beattie and then supported by Anna Bligh as Premier. When they implemented those laws, they basically drove the federal government's commitment to meet its Kyoto protocols. Nothing is more important in terms of our emissions than those tree-clearing laws that were passed in Queensland.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Then what happened? We lost in 2012. We all know that Campbell Newman won. What came back? They got rid of the tree-clearing laws, the bulldozers started up and the tree clearing has been happening at an alarming rate. I certainly think that in regard to the EPBC Act the federal government needs to take stronger action by using these laws to crack down on those people who are tree clearing. I think there have been something like only four prosecutions of those who are doing the wrong thing and that, obviously, there is a lot more that the federal department and the federal government could be doing to put pressure on those people, to stop those people from that unabated tree clearing that is going on and the associated damage that does to the reef.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I think the other things that are really important are the reef run-off and the ability to actually capture the damage that it is doing to the reef as well. I think that's something we will look at whilst we are in Cairns. Also, I think that we need to look at that throughout the coastline, because there are parts of the reef catchment which are heavily farmed districts and that do not have appropriate levels of checking what damage that is doing to the reef. Particularly, there is the importance of tourism in areas where we've seen the impact of Tropical Cyclone Debbie as well and the ability of those tourism operators to get back on their feet.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The other significant aspect of this bill—and Senator Singh touched on this as well—is the chaos and dysfunction that we saw in the House of Representatives when this was voted on yesterday. Whilst there has been significant chaos and dysfunction this week from the government, it really did bring itself to bear in the House of Representatives yesterday when they lost the vote for the second time. That is absolutely unique. What did they lose on this motion? This is something that is really important: the government failed to defend themselves. The amendment put forward by Labor went to the fact:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(1) the Government is failing to protect Australia's iconic Great Barrier Reef by:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(a) failing to act on climate change;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(b) supporting the Liberal National Party in Queensland in blocking reef protections aimed at halting the broad scale clearing of trees and remnant vegetation; and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(c) winding back ocean protection, put in place by Labor, around Australia and specifically in the Coral Sea; and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(2) this Government cannot be trusted to protect the Great Barrier Reef and fight for Australia's unique environment.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">This is what was passed yesterday in the House of Representatives. The government can't even muster the numbers to defend its own inaction on the Great Barrier Reef, which is such an important piece of Australia.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Is it any wonder, when you see outcomes like that in the House of Representatives, that when we turned up this morning we saw stunts like the attempted suspension of standing orders, which they failed to get the numbers for in this place. When you look at the dysfunction of this government and the impact that is having on the community, it is their failure to actually operate as a government on the important issues that this country is facing. Instead of seeing the government operating yesterday, what we actually saw was a Prime Minister claiming a foreign interference. We saw a Foreign Minister willing to debase her position and put an important, longstanding relationship with New Zealand at risk. We saw a government lose a vote in the House. We saw an incompetent Leader of the House in the other place—he claims to be an election-winning machine, but he was not much good at that in the House of Representatives yesterday. That explains why we see these failed stunts today that really do this government no justice. For those people crying out for a federal government that is operating in the interests of Australians, we have seen none of that from the government this week or, indeed, in recent months.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">So let's actually look at what happened yesterday. This is a government that was willing to put our relationship with New Zealand at risk. This is a government that was willing to put the important trade relationship with New Zealand at risk. And they are so desperate, flailing around, that they are willing to come into this chamber and pull stunts like they did this morning—and fail at that as well. It shows you they are out of control. It shows you they are not operating in the interests of Australians. This government is a failure at every level, and Australians are increasingly waking up to the dysfunction and chaos of those opposite.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I would ask that, when it comes to the reef, they would take their obligations seriously, that they would look at their current EPBC Act and take action on important issues such as tree clearing, which is doing so much ongoing damage to the reef at the moment. They really do have such a poor record, and the fact that they failed to defend themselves in the House of Representatives yesterday speaks volumes to their inactions on the reef.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>18</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Macdonald, Sen Ian</name>
                <name.id>YW4</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="YW4" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator IAN MACDONALD</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">11:28</span>):  I despair that in this chamber, and in parliament, there are so many ill-informed politicians taking part in debates such as this and passing off to unsuspecting members of the public who might be listening to this debate their ideological campaigns and portraying them as facts.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="155410" type="MemberInterjecting">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Rice:</span>
                    </a>  It is called science.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="YW4" type="MemberContinuation">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator IAN MACDONALD:</span>
                    </a>  I am now the longest-serving parliamentarian in this parliament. I have seen the standard of debate deteriorate over the 27 years that I have been here. When you have speakers like the first two speakers in this debate, who mouthed the words, who told deliberate mistruths—I suspect they don't know they're deliberate mistruths, because they're just reading some information that some staffer down the back corridor has said, 'This will sound good on the radio'. They simply have no idea—</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="155410" type="MemberInterjecting">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Rice:</span>
                    </a>  It is called science.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="YW4" type="MemberContinuation">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator IAN MACDONALD:</span>
                    </a>  I will come to you, Senator Rice, and I will demonstrate to you how what you portray as 'debate' is pure ideological claptrap.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT:</span>  Senator Macdonald, I remind you to make your remarks to the chair, thank you.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="YW4" type="MemberContinuation">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator IAN MACDONALD:</span>
                    </a>  If you showed some balance and stopped Senator Rice interjecting, perhaps I would refer my—</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT:</span>  Senator Macdonald, please resume your seat.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="195565" type="MemberInterjecting">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Whish-Wilson:</span>
                    </a>  Point of order. Senator Macdonald clearly just made a reflection on you in the chair.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT:</span>  That's why I have sat him down. Senator Macdonald, I remind you of the standing orders. It is my responsibility to make sure debate occurs in a respectful manner and within the confines of the standing orders. You were directly addressing Senator Rice. I was very clear when I directed you to make your comments to me. Any views that you have about how I chair the Senate, please keep to yourself. Senator Williams.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="I0V" type="MemberInterjecting">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Williams:</span>
                    </a>  I rise on a point of order. I agree with what you just said. Could you please bring to the attention of Senator Rice standing order 197 because of her continuing interjections to Senator Macdonald?</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberIInterjecting">Senator Ian Macdonald interjecting</span>—</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT:</span>  Senator Macdonald, please sit down. I intend to address the points made by Senator Williams. As you know, Senator Williams, I have just taken over the chair; I've been in a meeting. I will closely watch all senators, but thank you. Senator Macdonald.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="YW4" type="MemberContinuation">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator IAN MACDONALD:</span>
                    </a>  My speech has only gone a little way so far, but what happens with the Labor Party and the Greens is they try to drown me out every time. Senator Rice has continually interjected. Can I seek your protection from me so that I will not be tempted to directly respond?</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT:</span>  Please resume your seat. I have responded to that. Please continue your contribution.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="YW4" type="MemberContinuation">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator IAN MACDONALD:</span>
                    </a>  Thank you, Madam Deputy President. As I always say in these debates, you know you're hitting the truth when the Greens and the Labor Party continue to make points of order—baseless points of order, I might say—simply to make sure that I am not heard exposing the ideological claptrap that particularly the first two speakers today demonstrated in this debate.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT:</span>  Senator Macdonald, please resume your seat. Senator Whish-Wilson.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="195565" type="MemberInterjecting">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Whish-Wilson:</span>
                    </a>  On a point of order: Senator Macdonald clearly reflected on you. That was my point of order, which you have now addressed. He has just done it again by saying that my point of order was baseless. That is the second time he has reflected on your decisions on a point of order.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT:</span>  I believe I have addressed those points and made my views clear. Please continue, Senator Macdonald.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="YW4" type="MemberContinuation">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator IAN MACDONALD:</span>
                    </a>  Again, I point out to those who might be listening that the Greens and the Labor Party particularly will try to prevent anyone from exposing their ideological claptrap that they pass off as facts in debates such as this. This ideological claptrap is propagated by similarly left-wing ideological groups like GetUp!, who now are an arm of the Greens political party. To their eternal shame, the Labor Party leader, Mr Shorten, improperly gave $100,000 of union workers' money to set up that group. He gave it—it appears, because he hasn't been able to respond—illegally under the standing orders of the Australian Workers' Union. We await Mr Shorten to answer that. But I do despair—and I've seen this over the 27 years I have been here—that now senators get up and say any lie and portray it as facts. People listening to this debate might be confused into believing these lies. I have to say, at least in relation to the last two speakers, there was some direction to this debate and some factual information, not that I agree with it, but there was some attempt to deal with this matter.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">This bill is another coalition government action on the Great Barrier Reef. I refer to the first speaker who wrongly claimed that the Labor Party have been the saviour of the Great Barrier Reef. This document that I'm reading from was produced not by friends of ours but by an alliance of leading marine conservation organisations. They published a book called <span style="font-style:italic;">A big blue legacy</span><span style="font-style:italic;">: The Liberal </span><span style="font-style:italic;">National trad</span><span style="font-style:italic;">ition of marine </span><span style="font-style:italic;">conservation</span>. This booklet clearly demonstrates that every single positive action on the Great Barrier Reef, from the setting up of the World Heritage listing to the setting up GBRMPA back in 1981, has been by governments of this political persuasion.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">As I say, the people who produced this book that I'm reading from aren't particular friends of ours, but they have to acknowledge the truth of the matter, which is that any serious single advance on protecting our marine environment in Australia has come from Liberal-National Party governments. In fact, it was a Liberal government under then Senator Robert Hill who set up the world's first oceans policy. That's the fact. But, if you listened to the first two speakers, you'd believe that Mr Hawke or some other Labor luminary did these things. They are simply not factual, and that's the point I make.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I'm pleased that Senator Chisholm entered this debate, because at least we have one Queenslander who lives, in his case, close to—in my case, adjacent to—the Great Barrier Reef. I might just pause there to note that every single federal electorate in Queensland that adjoins the Great Barrier Reef is held by someone from the Liberal National Party. That has been the case for most of the time that I have been here, and why? It is because we who live there understand the Barrier Reef. We don't get tied up, we don't get confused, by the lies that are propagated by those who would destroy the reef and everything that is supported by it.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I was in Tonga recently, and the Deputy Prime Minister said to me: 'Oh, you're from Townsville. Isn't it a shame the Barrier Reef is dead?' That sort of view comes from intelligent people around the world. Why? Because the Greens particularly, and their cronies, go around telling the world the Great Barrier Reef is dead. As we all know, the Great Barrier Reef is alive and well and absolutely magnificent. That's, I guess, why Senator Whish-Wilson wanted to do a scuba-diving trip on the Great Barrier Reef, because it is a wonderful experience; it is magnificent. There are parts of the Great Barrier Reef that are under some stress, but that has been the case for all of its existence.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I want to give credit to those at the Australian Institute of Marine Science, with whom I regularly meet, and those at the Great Barrier Reef Marine Park Authority—both are based in Townsville, where I'm based—who I regularly communicate with. Some of those at James Cook University I totally disagree with and think are ideologically directed, but there are others there who do wonderful work on the Great Barrier Reef. They are also based in Townsville and Cairns. I want to congratulate them on the work they do. They would be the first to tell you that there are parts of the Barrier Reef under challenge, but there are, equally, greater parts of the Great Barrier Reef that are magnificent. But the Greens will go around the world trying to destroy the Queensland tourism industry by saying it is dead.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">And that's why, as I say, I'm pleased that at least Senator Chisholm was in this debate. The other speakers in this debate come from as far away from the Great Barrier Reef as you can be in Australia, one from Western Australia and two from the great south island of Tasmania.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The first two speakers in this debate, the first one in particular, kept saying what the Labor Party were going to do. Well, the Labor Party were in power for six years and did absolutely nothing. They did absolutely nothing. They talked about some marine reserve. They talked about what should happen to protect various parts of the marine environment of Australia but did nothing. It was left to an incoming coalition government, again, to actually do something about the Great Barrier Reef.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">We're told—we were told by the first two speakers particularly—about how climate change is ruining the reef. I'm a believer in climate change. I know the climate changes; it always has. We once used to be covered in ice, so clearly the climate is changing. I don't enter into the debate, because I simply don't know—I'm not a scientist—but there are equal numbers of recognised competent scientists who take different views on the matters of carbon emissions and climate change. I don't get into that debate, because I don't know.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">What I do know is that Australia emits less than 1.3 per cent of the world's carbon emissions. As Dr Finkel told me at estimates, if we shut Australia down completely—not if we cut our emissions by 10 per cent, 20 per cent or 50 per cent, but if we cut our emissions by 100 per cent and stopped every motor vehicle, factory and electric light in Australia—it would make not one iota of difference to the changing climate of the world. Yet the first two speakers would blame this government for somehow emitting all this carbon that somehow destroys the Barrier Reef.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">A few facts always help in these debates. There are, as we speak, 621 new units of coal-fired generation under construction around the world. Can I repeat that figure: there are 621 new units. Of these, 299 are in China, adding to their 2,100 units of coal-fired generation. The extra 299 units will produce some 670 million tons of carbon dioxide a year—more than the total emitted from Australia. This is just the new ones. There are 120 new units of coal-fired power under construction in India and 34 in Vietnam. Would you realise, Madam Deputy President, that Australia has a total of 73 units of coal-fired generation in the country, and none of them under construction now? We have 73, compared with 621 new ones being built as we speak. These new units in China and Vietnam will use clean Australian coal. If they didn't use clean Australian coal they would be buying their coal from other places around the world which have what we all know as dirty coal.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Now I will simply address some of the mistruths or the misinformation provided by other speakers. Senator Rice said the federal government is about to give away a billion dollars of money to a multinational coal company. I think she's talking about the Northern Australia Infrastructure Facility and I think she's talking about Adani. If she is, this demonstrates the point I made right at the beginning of my speech. Those out there might think the federal government is about to give Adani a billion dollars. That is simply—can I say it's a lie? That is simply a lie. If that is what she is talking about, she should know—she has been here long enough to know—that the government is not giving away anything or doing anything. An independent statutory authority called the Northern Australia Infrastructure Facility is looking at loaning money. I don't know whether they're talking with Adani—nobody knows, might I say—but they are thinking about loaning money. They don't have power to give anything to anyone. They can loan money. Now, there's a deliberate fact. Listeners might think, 'Oh, isn't that bad?' But it's just untruthful, and I despair that senators get up in this chamber and tell mistruths and portray them as facts.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Senator Rice also said that there were millions of citizens out there opposing Adani. This's simply not true. We opened the Adani headquarters in Townsville—the Queensland Labor Premier, the Townsville Labor mayor, Senator Canavan and I. There were five protesters as we went in, and when we came out an hour later that had swelled to eight—which proves to me that 199,992 of Townsville's population of 200,000 people support Adani. I know they do. It means jobs and it means a lifeline to many of the struggling small businesses in Townsville. Again, Senator Rice's claim is completely untrue. We're told Indigenous people are against it, yet we've had evidence at a Senate inquiry from the major Indigenous group in the area and they totally support it. Why? Because it means jobs and a real life for their people. This sort of disruption and the portrayal of wrong facts as facts is a despair on this parliament.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Senator Rice also said it was 'coal or the reef'. Well, the reef has been there for centuries and coalmining has been there centuries, and they can exist easily together. We were told that the Labor government in Queensland was hell-bent on Adani going ahead. That's one of the things Senator Rice has said that is probably half true. The Palaszczuk faction of the Queensland Labor government, headed by Ms Palaszczuk, understands the importance of jobs for Queensland and the need for the royalties to try and balance the Queensland budget. As Senator Rice said, that faction of the Queensland Labor Party are hell-bent on Adani going ahead—and I support them and congratulate them for it. Unfortunately, the other element of the Queensland Labor Party, which seems to be taking control, is totally against it. They don't care about jobs for the workers and they don't care about the Queensland economy.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Senator Singh spoke about the bill, which she's clearly never read. She said very little about the bill but, as she is a Tasmanian, I can understand that. Her speech was spent gloating about something that happened in the other chamber by accident last night. It might all be very interesting for the Labor Party, and it might give them a flush of excitement, but it had nothing to do with this bill. Senator Singh attacked the Australian government at the United Nations. She forgot to mention that the Queensland Labor government was there at the UN, shoulder to shoulder with the Australian government as it should have been—again, congratulations where it's due—trying to save the barrier reef. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">We are addressing the health of the reef. As I've mentioned, parts of it are good and parts of it are bad. But the scientists are looking into it. Senator Singh also talked about the largest removal of conservation areas that Labor established. Again, anyone hearing this might think it is a fact. It is simply not true. Labor established nothing in their six years of government. It was left to the Liberal government, following Labor, to take some real action, and today's bill is a little bit a part of that. Senator Singh, again portraying the myth—if you say it long enough, perhaps people might start to believe you—also said that Joh Bjelke-Petersen wanted to drill on the reef and was stopped by Labor. Sorry, Senator Singh, but you need to look up the history. It was actually stopped by the Fraser Liberal government, not by the Labor government. Senator Singh talked about the biomass of coral trout—and she's right there; that's one bit that's right. But do you know what she was talking about? She was talking about the green zones that had been set up not by Labor, not by the Greens, not by the Queensland government but by a Commonwealth Liberal-National Party government—and it is those green zones which this bill deals with today. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Senator Whish-Wilson, regrettably, but continuing the Greens approach, is telling everyone we are going to lose the Barrier Reef in our lifetime. The Barrier Reef is resilient. It will be there long after Senator Whish-Wilson and I are dead. We have to do what we can to help the reef along, and we are doing that. Thanks to the coalition government, and thanks to those agencies that I have mentioned, there continues to be a lot of work being done there. There are a lot of people of good will who understand that most of the Barrier Reef is great. There are elements of the Great Barrier Reef that are increasing in coral cover. But the Greens will always pick that smaller portion which is currently in some trouble. This bill furthers the coalition's advances on the Great Barrier Reef and deserves the Senate's support. </span>
                </p>
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              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="266524" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator ROBERTS</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">11:50</span>):  As a servant to the people of Queensland and Australia, I want to speak because, although the Great Barrier Reef Marine Park Amendment Bill 2017 is a simple bill, I must address, as Senator Macdonald has, some of the lies and falsities peddled before. It seems that whenever we hear the three words 'Great Barrier Reef', the Greens and now increasingly the Labor Party fall into madness. We wonder now about the rainbow coloured, solar powered unicorns that are going to die. Everywhere there is madness when we hear three words 'Great Barrier Reef'. I want to address that because Senator Pratt started this absolute nonsense, Senator Rice continued it and then Senator Whish-Wilson continued it. I want to congratulate Senator Macdonald for speaking up and telling the truth.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">This bill, at its core, is simple. This is a mechanical bill that fixes an unintended consequence of existing law. It is not about saving the planet. Particular regulations governing the Great Barrier Reef have sunset clauses which automatically expire at a certain date and need to be renewed if they are to be retained. This is a measure to prevent regulations from continuing once they have become outdated and unnecessary. This is not about the collapse of the Great Barrier Reef. In this particular case, the government does not want to let these regulations expire yet and would like to renew them by repealing and then reinstating those regulations with a new sunset date. There is nothing to see here. However, as the law is written, doing this would require the Great Barrier Reef Marine Park Authority to remake its existing plans of management. This is a pretty bureaucratic process, to say the least—and I'm sure Senator Leyonhjelm would agree with me—that needs to comply with part VB of the act and involves consultation periods et cetera—in other words, it is a hassle for no change, no benefit. This bill will simply allow the Great Barrier Reef Marine Park Authority to retain its existing plans of management when the regulations are reset. Our party has discussed this bill and decided to support it.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I must address Senator Pratt's comments because in her early comments she stated, 'We in federal parliament are the reef's custodians.' That, sadly, is the state in which we find ourselves now in the state of Queensland and the country of Australia. The real custodian under the Constitution is the state government of Queensland on behalf of the people of Queensland yet what we see now are federal environmental ministers reporting to UN bodies on the state of Queensland's Great Barrier Reef and we see misrepresentations from the United Nations. We see the reef being trashed in reputation only, not in physical existence. We see the reef being trashed in misleading and false statements, starting in this chamber, from the Greens and the Labor Party. We heard Senator Whish-Wilson talk about the reef being tens of thousands of years old. It's only 6,000 years old in the Whitsunday areas and in the north it's only 8,000 years old. Senator Macdonald is correct; the Greens peddle fantasies. We need to end the misrepresentations that are hurting jobs, because the Great Barrier Reef is alive and well and thriving.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Senator Pratt raised the clearing of trees. There is no problem with that whatsoever when it's done by farmers on their own land. Because who are the best custodians for the land? The people who own the land and, in that case, it is the farmers. Farmers don't want to see wasted chemicals going on their land. They don't want to see excess pesticides, fertilisers going on their lands. That costs them money for nothing. Farmers don't want to see topsoil being washed off the land, because they value the topsoil. Farmers are the best custodians because, when they come to sell, when they come to pass on to their kids, they want to maximise the value of their land. That's why farmers are the only ones with skin in the game, and farmers alone are the best to make the decision on whether or not to clear trees.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">As I said, the three words 'Great Barrier Reef' put the Greens into pseudo-alarm: 'The sky is falling, we'll all be killed, we need action on climate, it's a wonder of the world, you can see it from space.' How many times have we heard this? 'It has been there for tens of thousands of years,' says Senator Whish-Wilson. Actually, no, it hasn't, as I've just explained. The Great Barrier Reef seems to now be collecting another milestone. It has died more times than John Farnham has retired, and we still see the endless claims.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Let's get on to Senator Rice's topic: climate change. But, before doing so, let's remind everyone of Senator Macdonald's wonderful question during Senate estimates to the chief scientist, Dr Alan Finkel. Senator Macdonald asked him one simple question: if all carbon dioxide output from humans in Australia stopped, what would be the impact on climate globally? And the chief scientist's response after beating around the bush was two words: 'virtually nothing'. In fact, it would be nothing.</span>
                </p>
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                  <span class="HPS-Normal">We not only don't believe, as Senator Pratt says, in climate change being caused by carbon dioxide from humans; we know it is not being caused by humans. In fact, we know there is nothing unusual or unprecedented occurring in climate, and I will soon be discussing the results from my challenges of the CSIRO. Consider these hard facts, physical observations, hard data, measurements. For the last 22 years there has been no trend other than flat in global atmospheric temperatures—22 years with no warming, 22 years with ever-increasing and record carbon dioxide output from China, India and the Western developed world. There has been no warming despite record amounts of carbon dioxide from human activity.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The longest temperature trend in the last 160 years was 40 years of trend from 1936 to 1976—40 years when human production of carbon dioxide increased dramatically due to the Second World War and the postwar economic boom. And what was that trend? It was a falling temperature trend. There were rising carbon dioxide levels from humans, and the temperature fell for 40 years, the longest trend in the last 160 years. And then we look at the Bureau of Meteorology's own records and we find that temperatures in the 1880s and 1890s were warmer than today. And the CSIRO doesn't dispute that. In fact, I will issue a challenge again to anyone in the Labor Senate benches and anyone in the Greens Senate benches: find me someone who will debate the empirical evidence and the corruption of science, and I will gladly meet that challenge.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">People don't seem to understand that some of the same coral species that we have on the Great Barrier Reef exist off the coast of Thailand, where the temperature is two degrees warmer. People don't seem to understand that, on any given day in Queensland, the temperature at the northern part of the reef will be four or possibly five degrees centigrade warmer than the southern part. People don't seem to recognise that in 2008 we had record cold temperatures in South-East Queensland and the southern portion of the Great Barrier Reef bleached entirely naturally.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">There is no evidence of humans affecting global climate and there is no evidence that humans through impact on climate are affecting the Great Barrier Reef. There is a gaping hole in Senator Rice's plan. Pictures of cute animals, colourful exotic fish and wild alarmist statements are not evidence of anything happening. They are not evidence; we need to go to the empirical evidence, as I have just presented.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Sadly, Senator Macdonald raised the name of Senator Robert Hill. He was no saviour of the Barrier Reef. He was a foot soldier, I believe, of the United Nations—certainly misguided, possibly a useful idiot. But let's get back to the facts: based on those facts, the Greens are anti-science. They undermine science, they misrepresent science and they falsify science. As a result—because, in protecting the environment, the first step is to care enough to get the facts—because they distort the truth they cannot be pro-environment, because they are hurting the environment. By shutting down our production of carbon dioxide here and sending it to Third World countries with outdated power stations that do not have pollution-scrubbing equipment, the Greens are actually increasing total pollution globally. The Greens are increasing pollution globally—real pollutants: sulphur dioxide and nitrous oxide particulates. The Greens are hurting the environment.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The Greens are anti-industry. They are killing jobs in this country: farming jobs, mining jobs, manufacturing jobs, service industry jobs and tourism jobs in Queensland. They are anti-worker, for the obvious reasons: they're killing jobs. They're antidevelopment. They're killing progress. Fundamentally, for human progress we need decreasing energy prices. The Greens' stated outcome, their stated desire, and their outcome already being achieved, is to increase energy prices. That is the exact reverse—the reverse!—of what is needed for human progress.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">So that makes the Greens anti-civilisation: anti-industry and anti-progress. They are anti-Australia because they are undermining Australian sovereignty by pushing the UN agenda. They are anti-female, pushing the Islamisation of this country. They are anti-homosexual because they're pushing Islamisation of this country. In short, they are anti-human: anti-people, anti-civilisation and anti-progress.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Pauline Hanson's One Nation Party will delight in continuing to support the reef and the people of Queensland and Australia. We support farmers and we support the environment. We must do whatever we can to focus on cutting real pollutants—sulphur dioxide and nitrous oxide particulates. We must protect the water, we must protect the soil and we must do that based on facts, and that starts with care to unearth the facts.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Pauline Hanson's One Nation Party supports the truth. We want to pass this bill and we want to do it by ensuring that we present the facts, expose the Greens and protect Queensland jobs. We join with the government in recommending passage of this bill. Thank you.</span>
                </p>
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                <name role="metadata">Leyonhjelm, Sen David</name>
                <name.id>111206</name.id>
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                <party>LDP</party>
                <in.gov />
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            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="111206" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator LEYONHJELM</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">12:02</span>):  I rise to oppose the Great Barrier Reef Marine Park Amendment Bill 2017. The bill attempts to preserve Commonwealth's Great Barrier Reef Marine Park Authority by fixing a drafting error that would see the bureaucracy's management plan lapse in 2018. But we should allow such an accident to happen so that we can do away with this Commonwealth bureaucracy.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Henry David Thoreau, a US abolitionist, wrote a famous essay in 1849 called 'Civil Disobedience'. Thoreau states:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">That government is best which governs least.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">By extension, I can only assume that Thoreau would have thought the government is worst when governing most. I would agree with this. On that basis, this government is very bad. The government is an addict to regulation and an addict to bureaucracy. I am intent on helping the government to put itself in rehab to reduce this addiction, one piece of regulation at a time.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">A valuable step in this rehabilitation process relates to the Great Barrier Reef. There is more government regulation around the Great Barrier Reef than any other natural feature in Australia. We all know that the Great Barrier Reef is beautiful. It's known around the world for its biodiversity. It's a tourism mecca and we all value it highly. The Queensland National Trust has named it 'a state Icon of Queensland'. But none of this justifies the Commonwealth government meddling in state business. In case you haven't noticed, the Great Barrier Reef is entirely in Queensland, and yet the Great Barrier Reef Marine Park Authority is a Commonwealth body. This is not a discussion about climate change, but a question of overregulation, unnecessary and avoidable regulation. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I have a better idea—dissolve the Great Barrier Reef Marine Park Authority. Give responsibility of the reef to the state in which it is located and reduce the regulation oversight burdens of the federal system. If nothing else, this would help discourage the perception that the Commonwealth government will come stomping in with its giant jackboots at every opportunity. Thoreau would not be impressed with the Australian Commonwealth government's approach to the Great Barrier Reef. Let Queensland do its job. Abolish the Commonwealth Great Barrier Reef Marine Park Authority. </span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>24</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Pratt, Sen Louise</name>
                <name.id>I0T</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="I0T" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator PRATT</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Western Australia</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">12:05</span>):  I rise to speak briefly to the second reading amendment moved by the Greens. I have already spoken in the second reading debate. I note in those remarks earlier, I recognised the impact of climate change on the reef and the strong record of action on climate change that the Labor Party has. However, we don't support this second reading amendment. We don't support the singling out of any specific project, because we note that effective action on global climate change will require a strong global architecture, regulating and limiting emissions, not only in Australia but also globally. Therefore, we shouldn't be singling out any specific project—Chinese industry, American industry, global transport, agricultural emissions, land clearing or proposed projects like the Browse Basin, Adani coalmines or future developments in the North West Shelf. We need a global architecture limiting such emissions. </span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>24</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Birmingham, Sen Simon</name>
                <name.id>H6X</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="H6X" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator BIRMINGHAM</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for Education and Training</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">12:06</span>):  I thank senators who've contributed to this debate, although I do note that this is essentially a very non-controversial bill. The requirement to have had some eight or nine senators speak in a debate that has gone on for a couple of hours was probably quite unnecessary. I appreciate that people like, sometimes, to seize the opportunity to wax lyrical about matters relating to climate change policy or mining approvals or the like. Ultimately, the Great Barrier Reef Marine Park Amendment Bill 2017 is very precise, very short and very specific in terms of what it seeks to do. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">This bill makes minor technical amendments to the Great Barrier Reef Marine Park Act 1975 to rectify an unintended consequence of the sunsetting regime that was established under the Legislation Act 2003. The Great Barrier Reef Marine Park Act provides for the protection and conservation of the environment, biodiversity and heritage values through zoning issues of permissions and implementation plans of management in the Great Barrier Reef Marine Park. The amendments made under this bill will simply prevent plans of management made under this act from being revoked if regulations giving effect to these plans are repealed and remade to address sunsetting. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Plans of management are an important environmental management tool for managing activities within the Great Barrier Reef Marine Park on the basis of ecologically sustainable use. This will simply allow the protective measures in those plans, currently in place, to continue uninterrupted into the future. Plans of management are prepared specifically for intensively used or particularly vulnerable groups of islands and reefs and for the protection of vulnerable species or ecological communities. There are currently four plans of management in place, mainly around Cairns, Hinchinbrook Island, Shoalwater Bay and the Whitsundays. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The Australian and Queensland governments have been working together for the long-term management of the Great Barrier Reef Marine Park for over 40 years.    We note and respect Senator Leyonhjelm's passionate views in relation to federalism and the responsibilities of the states and territories. We also note that the Great Barrier Reef is, of course, a World Heritage item. It is one in which the cooperation of Commonwealth and state governments has been long-established. And we are proud of the type of effective regime that has been put in place for the protection and management of that World Heritage area. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">We are also very proud, as a government, of the significant investment that we have made in relation to the establishment of the Reef Trust and cooperative arrangements with the Queensland government that have seen record sums invested in the ongoing protection of the Great Barrier Reef into the future. As all members of the Senate and Australians appreciate, it is one of the world's largest coral reef systems and includes 2,900 coral reefs, 600 continental islands, 300 coral cays and about 150 inshore mangrove islands. The Great Barrier Reef Marine Park Authority and the Queensland Department of National Parks, Sport and Racing, through the Queensland Parks and Wildlife Service, operate a joint field management program for the marine and island national parks, ensuring efficient, coordinated, cooperative management and oversight. Among other management tools, the field management plan uses the management plans that this bill seeks to ensure continue into the future to deliver practical on-ground actions to support and maintain well-functioning marine and island ecosystems that support economic, traditional and recreational uses of the Great Barrier Reef.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I commend this bill to the Senate. The government will not be supporting the second reading amendment moved by Senator Rice. As I said at the outset, this bill is very precise in its intent. This bill deals particularly with ensuring the continuity of management plans. It does not need to be sidelined or used as a mechanism for other issues to be debated. There have been plenty of debates in this place already in relation to the Adani mine. I'm sure there will be others in future. However, the government stands by the very strong environmental safeguards that are in place in relation to the approvals around that mine and is absolutely confident that its operation would provide jobs and economic activity in regional Queensland and would not have any negative consequences for the Great Barrier Reef.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT:</span>  The question is that the amendment as moved by Senator Rice be agreed to.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
            <interjection>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>25</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">DEPUTY PRESIDENT, The</name>
                  <name.id>10000</name.id>
                  <electorate />
                  <party />
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </interjection>
          </speech>
          <division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [12:16]<br />(The Deputy President—Senator Lines)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>7</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Di Natale, R</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                  <name>McKim, NJ</name>
                  <name>Rhiannon, L</name>
                  <name>Rice, J</name>
                  <name>Siewert, R (teller)</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>32</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Abetz, E</name>
                  <name>Bernardi, C</name>
                  <name>Birmingham, SJ</name>
                  <name>Burston, B</name>
                  <name>Cash, MC</name>
                  <name>Cormann, M</name>
                  <name>Dastyari, S (teller)</name>
                  <name>Dodson, P</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, DJ</name>
                  <name>Fifield, MP</name>
                  <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                  <name>Georgiou, P</name>
                  <name>Gichuhi, LM</name>
                  <name>Hanson, P</name>
                  <name>Hinch, D</name>
                  <name>Hume, J</name>
                  <name>Ketter, CR</name>
                  <name>Leyonhjelm, DE</name>
                  <name>Lines, S</name>
                  <name>Macdonald, ID</name>
                  <name>Moore, CM</name>
                  <name>Paterson, J</name>
                  <name>Payne, MA</name>
                  <name>Pratt, LC</name>
                  <name>Reynolds, L</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A</name>
                  <name>Seselja, Z</name>
                  <name>Smith, D</name>
                  <name>Williams, JR</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names />
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.<br />Original question agreed to.<br />Bill read a second time.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division>
        </subdebate.2>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>Third Reading</title>
            <page.no>25</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Third Reading</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>25</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">DEPUTY PRESIDENT, The</name>
                <name.id>10000</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="00AOP" type="OfficeSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-OfficeSpeech">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Time">12:18</span>):  As no amendments to the bill have been circulated, I shall call the minister to move the third reading unless any senator requires that the bill be considered in Committee of the Whole.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>25</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Birmingham, Sen Simon</name>
                <name.id>H6X</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="H6X" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator BIRMINGHAM</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for Education and Training</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">12:19</span>):  I move:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">That this bill be now read a third time.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Question agreed to.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Bill read a third time.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
        </subdebate.2>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Petroleum and Other Fuels Reporting Bill 2017, Petroleum and Other Fuels Reporting (Consequential Amendments and Transitional Provisions) Bill 2017</title>
          <page.no>26</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p>
              <a href="r5845" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Petroleum and Other Fuels Reporting Bill 2017</span>
                </p>
              </a>
            </p>
            <a href="r5846" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Petroleum and Other Fuels Reporting (Consequential Amendments and Transitional Provisions) Bill 2017</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>First Reading</title>
            <page.no>26</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">First Reading</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Bills received from the House of Representatives.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>26</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Birmingham, Sen Simon</name>
                <name.id>H6X</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="H6X" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator BIRMINGHAM</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for Education and Training</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">12:19</span>):  I move:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">That these bills may proceed without formalities, may be taken together and be now read a first time.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Question agreed to.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Bills read a first time.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
        </subdebate.2>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>26</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Second Reading</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>26</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Birmingham, Sen Simon</name>
                <name.id>H6X</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="H6X" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator BIRMINGHAM</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for Education and Training</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">12:20</span>):  I move:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">That these bills be now read a second time.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I seek leave to have the second reading speeches incorporated in <span style="font-style:italic;">Hansard</span>.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Leave granted.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span style="font-style:italic;" />
                    <span style="font-style:italic;">The speeches read as follows—</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="text-align:center;direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">PETROLEUM AND OTHER FUELS REPORTING BILL 2017</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">This Bill would establish a reporting regime for petroleum, other fuels and fuel-related products to improve Australia's fuel statistics. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The Australian Government has produced statistics on the production, refining, import, export, consumption and end‑of‑month stocks of petroleum and fuels such as ethanol for over forty years. These statistics are used by government agencies to monitor the market and energy security; by business to monitor supply and demand trends and prioritise future investment; and by international organisations to help compile global statistics which increase market transparency.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">In recent years, the proportion of businesses contributing to the statistics has declined, while the fuel market has become increasingly competitive and diverse in both the sources of fuel and the types of fuel available. While a clear majority of the industry supports the statistics and continues to contribute data, declining participation in some categories has reduced the coverage, usefulness and accuracy of the statistics. The introduction of a compulsory reporting requirement will ensure that the Government can continue to produce reliable and useful fuel statistics. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The production of accurate statistics is particularly important as the Government implements its plan to return to compliance with Australia's obligation as a member of the International Energy Agency to hold fuel stocks equivalent to 90 days of the previous year's average daily net oil imports. Including stocks as part of the reporting requirement will ensure Australia's oil equivalent stockholdings can be calculated accurately and in a timely manner. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The Bill sets up a legislative framework for mandatory reporting. The specific reporting requirements will be provided in subordinate legislation to ensure the reporting requirements stay up-to-date with changes in the market and technology. The fuel market has the potential to undergo significant change, from the use of biofuels to battery powered cars to the introduction of hydrogen fuel cells. It is important that new products and activities can be swiftly added to the reporting requirements to ensure the statistics remain relevant. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">During consultation on the reporting requirement, businesses made clear that they expect their sensitive information to be treated securely. The Bill provides extensive protections for personal or commercially sensitive information. For example, the Bill prohibits the publication of information that could identify an individual or enable commercial‑in‑confidence information to be determined. This ensures that reporting businesses can be confident that their sensitive information will be stored securely, only used where necessary, and only published where appropriate. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The Government is committed to minimising the regulatory burden associated with mandatory reporting. Data-sharing arrangements are being pursued with a number of Federal, state and territory agencies to ensure that data already reported to government is used first, rather than requiring it to be reported twice. For example, the Bill will authorise the Department of Immigration and Border Protection to share import and export data collected through the customs regime to remove the need for this information to be recollected. The Bill also requires an independent review to be undertaken in 2021 to ensure the impact and effectiveness of the reporting regime is evaluated and, if necessary, able to be refined. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="text-align:center;direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">PETROLEUM AND OTHER FUELS REPORTING (CONSEQUENTIAL AMENDMENTS AND TRANSITIONAL PROVISIONS) BILL 2017</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">This Bill supports the implementation of the <span style="font-style:italic;">Petroleum and Other Fuels Reporting Bill 2017</span>.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">This Bill will empower the Australian Taxation Office and Australian Competition and Consumer Commission to share data they have collected with the Department of the Environment and Energy to reduce the reporting burden associated with the reporting obligation imposed by the <span style="font-style:italic;">Petroleum and Other Fuels Reporting Bill 2017</span>. The data provided to the Department of the Environment and Energy will also be used to monitor compliance with the reporting obligation contained in the <span style="font-style:italic;">Petroleum and Other Fuels Reporting Bill 2017</span>. </span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>27</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Moore, Sen Claire</name>
                <name.id>00AOQ</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="00AOQ" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator MOORE</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">12:20</span>):  I rise to speak on the Petroleum and Other Fuels Reporting Bill 2017 and the Petroleum and Other Fuels Reporting (Consequential Amendments and Transitional Provisions) Bill 2017. Anyone who has dealt with the Australian gas market knows it is one of the most opaque and least transparent markets in Australia. No-one knows exactly how much gas is produced, who holds it, how much it is sold for and where it goes. This bill takes one small step towards improving that transparency and, as such, Labor is supportive of the bill.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Rather than relying on voluntary disclosure of information, this bill will require gas companies to disclose information regarding gas suppliers to the government. That information can be used to inform public policy and, with appropriate safeguards to protect confidential information, to inform the general public, researchers, the industry and others. But no-one should be fooled into thinking if this bill becomes law we will have a solution to the gas crisis this government has let develop.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The Prime Minister and the Minister for the Environment and Energy like to blame the last Labor government for this crisis—and, in fact, any other crisis we have. This is a crisis that has seen gas prices for Australian industry rise from around $4 per gigajoule a few short years ago to up to $20 per gigajoule today. It is a crisis that has the potential to devastate Australian industry and Australian jobs. It is a crisis that is impacting electricity affordability and our security of supply.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Unlike this government, Labor has been warning about this crisis for years. As long ago as 2015, Labor adopted a gas export national interest test to ensure gas exports didn't come at the expense of Australian industry and households. What was the Liberal Party's response? Echoing the gas industry, they said a gas export national interest trust would increase red tape. Rather than act, they did nothing and let an impending crisis turn into a debilitating crisis that is now threatening industry, jobs and even our power supply.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Once the crisis had become so severe that even the Liberal Party couldn't ignore it they held a series of morning teas with industry promising to halve gas prices. And then they backtracked on that same promise. They promised to introduce export controls through their domestic gas security mechanism—a mechanism Labor is hopeful will lower prices and increase domestic supply, but one that doesn't directly address price and won't be implemented until next year, if ever. No wonder stakeholders feel it will lock in high prices and fail to alleviate supply shortages. The government still won't support a simple test to ensure gas exports are in the national interest. Labor supports a strong LNG industry and a strong domestic gas market. It shouldn't be beyond our abilities to have both.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The fact is that when it comes to industry policy, like in so many other areas, this government is divided, ineffectual and blame-shifting its way to an ever-increasing shambles. One of their favourite blame-shifting targets is always the states. The Labor government of Victoria is a favourite target when it comes to the national gas crisis. They really love to blame Victorian bans on onshore gas development, forgetting that the New South Wales Liberal government also has such a ban. There is no attempt to play a constructive role in building and supporting community consent for responsible gas development in these states. It is all about blaming someone else.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">When Labor was in government we worked with crossbenchers to foster community consent for responsible onshore gas development by building up processes communities could have confidence in and could understand. We established that independent expert scientific committee to advise on potential developments and their impacts on water resources. We included a water trigger in the Environment Protection and Biodiversity Conservation Act.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The Liberal government abolished this good work, and when the inevitable happened, when communities opposed new developments, they started wagging the finger at the states for representing the view of the communities that they actually represent. This seems to be the typical Liberal approach to energy: deny a problem and oppose other solutions; let the problem get so big that it's then impossible to deny it anymore, then blame others. That is because they don't have the unity, the intelligence or, indeed, the ability to play a constructive role in finding and then actually implementing a solution—spin and substance. The longer the energy crisis goes on, the more Australians know about it and are fearful.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The government's approach to the gas crisis is mirrored in its approach to the electricity crisis. The electricity policy paralysis from this government has led to an energy crisis. Wholesale electricity prices have doubled under the Liberal government, while carbon pollution is once again on the rise. The government's Finkel review, which has been discussed many times in this place, recommended that a clean energy target be implemented urgently to end the policy uncertainty strangling investment and to deliver new supply and lower prices. The government is too weak and divided to deliver on the central recommendation from its own review.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Labor understands that this is a real crisis. That's why we're willing to put aside our preferred policy of an emissions trading scheme, to implement a clean energy target. We've discussed this in this place, but we have no partner in government. We have no-one to negotiate with. The government are paralysed by their own disunity. They can't address the largest electricity crisis this nation has faced in living memory. We have some government members saying that they would scrap the 2020 renewable energy target, while others are on record as saying that it's here to stay. We have some members, like the Deputy Prime Minister, saying coal is the future and the government should fund new coal plants with taxpayer funds, while the views of the Minister for the Environment and Energy range from, in one quote, 'The government stands ready to finance new coal plants,' to, in another quote:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">We don't have a plan on the table to build a new coal-fired power station …</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Seemingly—and there has been a lot of media—his view depends on the audience he's addressing, or is it actually the state where he's making his comments? The Treasurer has veered from bringing lumps of coal into the other place—and that was truly a great moment!—to recently saying:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Let's not think that there's cheap new coal, there's not.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Is it any wonder that the government can't agree with itself on a national energy policy when individual ministers can't agree with themselves?</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">This would be amusing, and I know that there has been laughter at times, if it weren't so serious. Energy is the lifeblood of our economy. Industry, households, jobs, our security—they all rely on affordable, secure energy and increasingly on clean energy. What is needed is clear: a national energy policy to support new investment, a policy like a well-designed, clean-energy target. At this historic crossroads at the beginning of a global energy revolution, Australia finds itself with a government divided and inadequate to the task before it. Australians know, and they desperately need, so much better.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>28</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Rice, Sen Janet</name>
                <name.id>155410</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party>AG</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="155410" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator RICE</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Victoria</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">12:29</span>):  I'm rising today to speak to the Petroleum and Other Fuels Reporting Bill 2017 and the Petroleum and Other Fuels Reporting (Consequential Amendments and Transitional Provisions) Bill 2017. Two years ago I participated in the Senate inquiry into Australia's transport energy resilience and sustainability, which was undertaken by the Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport References Committee. In that committee a lot of evidence was presented, and we heard, that Australia was not complying with our commitments under the International Energy Agency to hold 90 days of liquid fuel reserves. In many cases we didn't even know what our fuel reserves were. The data wasn't there. There was a complete lack of information about the level and exact extent of our fuel reserves. It was astounding how we were completely failing to meet our international obligations. For years the government has relied on compliance surveys by both upstream and downstream oil and gas companies. It was very apparent, as we heard the evidence and read the submissions, that the voluntary compliance was not doing the job. We heard from the industry that mandatory reporting would be very onerous and would create all sorts of compliance costs, but I must say that, when that evidence was presented, it rang hollow, and other witnesses to that committee confirmed that most of the super major oil companies know exactly what sort of fuel stocks they are holding and can spit it out at the push of a button but don't choose to.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">We also heard from Air Vice Marshal John Blackburn that Australia is the only developed oil and fuel importing country in the world that has no mandated government or industry stockholdings or government control over part of the oil fuel infrastructure. This should have been shocking, but really, when you see how this government is serving the interests of the fossil fuel industries, it wasn't surprising at all. It has the lightest of touches with regulation or compliance with reporting when it comes to the oil, gas and coal industries.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">But at least here we are with these bills, and they are an improvement on the status quo. I congratulate the government for finally bringing them to the parliament, for these bills will improve the situation. They will require that regulated entities provide a report to the Secretary of the Department of the Environment and Energy regarding current petroleum and liquid fuel activities and products. They will permit the secretary of the department to collect and publish information regarding those petroleum and liquid products. They do contain important provisions around the handling of commercial information and they will give those necessary enforcement powers to government to ensure compliance.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">We know the importance of an accurate record of our fuel stocks. Yes, they will help us to ensure compliance with our international obligations under the International Energy Agency, but it's also imperative that the Australian public and the stakeholders who require this information have an accurate record of the state of our industry. Analysts, researchers and, most importantly, the people who are planning the long-term decarbonisation of our economy rely on this data so we can make that energy transition. We need to have the best available data to keep prices down and energy supplies secure as that transition occurs.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">In summary, the Greens acknowledge that moving to the mandatory collection of fuel statistics is way overdue, and we will support the bills before the parliament today. But what we aren't talking about today is the other, much more significant part of fuel security, and that's that, if we are serious about fuel security and energy security, our reliance on these petroleum products must come to an end. That means that we need to be seriously moving to decarbonising the transport fuels. That's where the debate should be moving. Yes, mandatory reporting of the statistics of how much we have of petroleum products is important, but much more important is the action that we need to take so that we don't need to rely upon those petroleum products.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">All over the world there are actions in which Australia is being left behind. A key one is the shift from internal combustion engines to electric vehicles. We are woefully behind in making that shift to electric vehicles, which can be powered on 100 per cent renewable energy. Given that our transport greenhouse gas emissions are up there second only to stationary energy as the most significant part of our greenhouse gas emissions, this is where we need to be taking action if we're going to be serious about tackling global warming.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">In other countries around the world in recent months we have seen some really significant changes. For example, in the United Kingdom and France, they are going to be phasing out new sales of internal combustion engine vehicles by 2040. We have not seen a skerrick of a sign or heard a whisper that the government is looking at doing that. We haven't got a target for electric vehicles. We've got no mechanism in place to increase the number of electric vehicles on the market. It is such an important element of decarbonising our transport system, and we are just sitting still and going nowhere with that.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Fuel efficiency is another issue. While we still have petrol-fuelled and diesel-fuelled vehicles, we need to make sure they are the most fuel-efficient vehicles available. Internationally, we know that 80 per cent of the international light vehicle market already has standards, and yet Australia is a dumping ground for the low-quality vehicle variants because we don't have these standards. It would save consumers hundreds of dollars in fuel if we had fuel efficiency standards. And it would save fuel. That's the sort of measure that's going to be making a really important dent in ensuring we are using petroleum most efficiently, reducing the amount of oil that we're using and making sure that the oil that is being used is being used as efficiently as possible. From the reporting that's been done, we know that those hundreds of dollars in fuel savings to consumers are going to more than offset the extra cost of investing in more fuel-efficient vehicles.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">There are other ways, of course, that we can act to reduce our reliance on imported fuel and so tackle our fuel security. One way is to shift as much transport as possible away from private vehicles and to public transport, which is much more easily powered by renewable energy than personal vehicles, which mostly use liquid fuels. That means planning our cities for that shift so that the amount and mode share of public transport is increased and the number of trips done on public transport lifts up from the current rate, which in cities across our country is only 10 to 20 per cent. That is the sort of thing that would make a serious dent in tackling fuel security.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Then there are the modes of transport which don't require any fuel, renewable or fossil, other than the fuel that you put into your body, and that's active transport. So we really need measures to increase the rates of walking and cycling in our cities. That would not only be good for fuel security and for reducing people's costs of transport; it would also be very important for our health. Every trip done by active transport, by people walking and cycling, is improving people's health. We need to be making cycling safer and more accessible. We know what's holding us back there. What stops people from cycling is that we don't have safe cycling infrastructure.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">We need to look at these transport issues holistically. We can't just pick out one little thing and say, 'Okay, we're going to put in place measures that require mandatory reporting on fuel stocks.' We need to work out how we can bring all of these things together so that measures to improve cycling and increase the use of public transport can sit side-by-side with measures to shift freight from heavy road vehicles onto rail, to get freight vehicles to move away from fossil fuels and to encourage the use of hydrogen for heavy freight vehicles. If the government is serious about tackling the multitudinous issues involved in making our transport systems more secure and safer, and climate change, then these are the sorts of measures that we need to be undertaking going forward.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">So the Greens are supporting this bill today, but we see that, really, it underlines just how much further we still have to go. We need to take action on a whole range of important measures if we are truly to make our transport systems safe, secure and reliable.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>29</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Birmingham, Sen Simon</name>
                <name.id>H6X</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="H6X" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator BIRMINGHAM</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for Education and Training</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">12:39</span>):  I thank senators for their contributions to this debate and for their indications of support for this bill. The Turnbull government takes energy security matters incredibly seriously, across both the stationary energy and transport energy sectors. Whilst this bill focuses particularly on transport energy fuels and related topics, I note that Senator Moore's contribution stretched into other energy markets and systems. As a government, we are taking serious action to ensure the affordability and reliability of Australia's energy markets whilst also ensuring that Australia meets its international obligations in relation to climate change. Our investment in and pursuit of sensible investments such as Snowy 2.0 makes far more sense for ensuring energy security in the future than do the policies of, say, my home state of South Australia, where, thanks to the failure of energy policy by the state government, we now see fleets of diesel generators being brought into the state to operate over the summer. They will of course be using diesel, the dirtiest fuel source for climate change emissions, to generate energy. In relation to this bill and the actions we're taking in relation to the transport energy space, that is also depleting stocks of petroleum fuels reserves and otherwise, owing to the excessive use of diesel fuel resulting from the South Australian state Labor government's failed and flawed energy policy. We have other approaches that are dealing with not only the retail market, distribution and the operation of energy markets but also with generation—by investing in Snowy 2.0, the exploration of other pumped hydro facilities, and projects such as the solar-thermal operation at Port Augusta.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">This bill relates specifically to the accuracy, reliability and timeliness of Australia's fuel statistics. It will help to safeguard energy security, particularly in the transport energy space and the operation of the fuel market, and it will help to ensure that Australia meets its international obligations. It will provide for accurate statistics which will help Australia plan a return to compliance with the International Energy Agency oil stockholding obligation. It will ensure that we capture all relevant fuels within the Australian market, which will ensure we can comply, and do so at minimal potential cost to all sectors. The government is committed to energy security. I commend this bill to the Senate.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Question agreed to.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Bills read a second time.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
        </subdebate.2>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>Third Reading</title>
            <page.no>30</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Third Reading</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>30</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Whish-Wilson, Sen Peter (The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>10000</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party>AG</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="195565" type="OfficeSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-OfficeSpeech">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT </span>
                    </a>
                    <span class="HPS-GeneralBold">(</span>
                    <span class="HPS-OfficeSpeech">Senator Whish-Wilson</span>
                    <span class="HPS-GeneralBold">)</span> (<span class="HPS-Time">12:42</span>):  As no amendments to the bills have been circulated, I shall call the minister to move the third reading.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>30</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Birmingham, Sen Simon</name>
                <name.id>H6X</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="H6X" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator BIRMINGHAM</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for Education and Training</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">12:43</span>):  I move:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">That these bills be now read a third time.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Question agreed to.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Bills read a third time.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
        </subdebate.2>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>STATEMENTS BY SENATORS</title>
        <page.no>30</page.no>
        <type>STATEMENTS BY SENATORS</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <debate.text>
        <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
          <p class="HPS-Debate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Debate">STATEMENTS BY SENATORS</span>
          </p>
        </body>
      </debate.text>
      <speech>
        <talk.start>
          <talker>
            <page.no>30</page.no>
            <time.stamp />
            <name role="metadata">Whish-Wilson, Sen Peter</name>
            <name.id>195565</name.id>
            <electorate />
            <party>AG</party>
            <in.gov />
            <first.speech />
          </talker>
        </talk.start>
        <talk.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Normal">
                <a href="195565" type="MemberSpeech">
                  <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator WHISH-WILSON</span>
                </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Tasmania</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">12:43</span>):  It being almost 12.45, we will now go to senators' statements.</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </talk.text>
      </speech>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Disability Services</title>
          <page.no>30</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Disability Services</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>30</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Reynolds, Sen Linda</name>
              <name.id>250216</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>LP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="250216" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator REYNOLDS</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Western Australia</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">12:43</span>):  Sometimes in this place you choose the issues that you bring to this chamber and sometimes they come to you. Today, I would like to share one that has come to me and my colleagues senators Moore and Siewert and others. In late 2014, I was made aware of the plight of over 7,000 younger Australians with disability who were forced to live in aged-care facilities because there was simply nowhere else for them to go. Initially, I couldn't believe it was true that in this day and age young Australians with disability in Australia, with some of the highest care needs in our society, were forced to live in aged care. Sadly, it was very true. The first inquiry I initiated as a senator in this place, in December 2014, was an inquiry into this shocking situation and how my colleagues and I, one of whom is in this chamber today, could address the situation along.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">In our federation our reform processes are mind-numbingly complex and exhausting, and they defeat far too many, but I'm so happy that that has not happened in this case. In this place, we often consider the big nationwide programs—the numbers and the figures—but rarely do we share the stories of those who are impacted by the decisions we make every day in this chamber. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Today, I'm delighted to be able to share with you the story of one remarkable young Australian woman: Kirby Littley. Kirby and her parents Carol and Kevin Littley all join us in the President's gallery today. Kirby is a testament to the benefits of the NDIS, but she is also a reminder of the need to get thousands of others just like her out of aged care. In relation to Kirby, when the Summer Foundation—who is also represented here today—first introduced me to Kirby and her parents, she was living in a residential aged-care facility as a result of multiple strokes following brain surgery. Until that point she had been a lively, independent and fun-loving young woman, and a teacher, but, following the strokes, Kirby was rendered unable to move, walk or talk.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Following further medical complications, and her resulting high-care needs, Kirby's family were advised that the only option they had left for Kirby was to admit her to an aged-care facility. But she did not receive the care that she needed to get better and to reintegrate into society. But her wonderful parents never, ever gave up and they did not accept her diagnosis or what the doctors were telling them. They saw, as I saw when I first met Kirby in the aged-care facility, that there was a woman with a wicked sense of humour, who was a strong young woman, just bursting to get out of the shackles of her disability—that was just so clear. I've kept that in mind every single day we've looked at this issue here in this place.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Since entering the NDIS and getting out of an aged-care facility, Kirby's life has changed dramatically. She's been able to return home and her recovery and her quality of life have dramatically improved with the support of the NDIA and her carer—who is also here today—and the love, support and unwavering commitment of her parents. I was delighted to hear from Kirby yesterday that she's now getting so much better that she's actually doing personal training twice a week and she's also volunteering back at work one day a week, which is fantastic. But this remarkable recovery, which still has a long way to go, would simply not have happened if she had remained in aged care. Her courage and her perseverance, despite the medical advice of the day, is a truly remarkable story.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">It does remind us that today there are still over 6,200 younger Australians with disabilities who remain in aged care, with more than 2,000 every year still being admitted, even in the NDIS trial sites. In my own home state of Western Australia, there are at least 470 younger Australians still living permanently in aged care. But, I do want to commend Ministers Porter and Wyatt for their advocacy and support in seeking to speed up a resolution to this complex problem and for their work with their state and territory counterparts, where a lot of the responsibility for treatment, rehabilitation and health care still lies.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">On a positive note, the NDIA is now working more effectively with the health and aged-care systems. There is still a long way to go, but things are improving. The NDIA is now in the process of establishing better interactions between hospital discharge systems and other agencies in order to avoid admissions into the aged-care system. This will allow over 28,000 people with a disability across this country to access affordable and accessible housing. The new SDA funding stream in the NDIS will fix an important and significant gap that had previously prevented people with a disability, people like Kirby, from living the life they desire in the home that they desire—something the rest of us take for granted.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">The government and the NDIA have also done a great job in setting up this funding stream. Policy has been embedded as a core part of the NDIS, through a legislative instrument that was finalised in March this year. Now, wonderfully, we're moving from policy design to actual implementation, but this is only part of the way along the journey. There is still a long way and many years to go. I believe our collective challenge in this place, along with the government, families and the NDIA, is to ensure now that the SDA delivers the required housing where it is needed. The sad fact is, even if all 6,200 were accepted tomorrow on to the NDIS and given packages, there would still be nowhere for them to go in terms of where they want to live and the support that they require. Unfortunately, they would still be required to stay in aged care until accommodation is available.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Last night the Summer Foundation and Youngcare outlined at a parliamentary friendship group how this policy can be effective in all of our communities. The Summer Foundation and Youngcare are leading by example and building new houses, building dozens of developments all around the country to show us how it can be done—and it can be done. The NDIS housing that has been built to date is a great start but it meets less than 10 per cent of the needs of all young people in aged care, so we now urgently need to work this at scale. There are models, thanks to Youngcare, Summer Foundation and others, that demonstrate that it can work and that it is financially viable. But, as I said, we need to now work this to scale.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Around $2.5 billion in new investment is needed to build the housing just for young people in aged care. An additional $9 billion is needed to build housing for other NDIS recipients who will get this payment. The NDIS does have funds to pay for this, and the market can deliver. We've already seen evidence of this on the ground. But to get it to this scale, the NDIA now needs to work much more closely with the market to ensure that the market responds and starts building these facilities where and when they're needed. But I think the most important thing for the market now is certainty. It needs to know that there will be people, that it will still get financial support to give it the confidence to build. Markets can bear the risks involved in delivering housing, but they need to know these payments will continue beyond the next four to five years. Certainty on how prices will be reviewed is critical to get institutional investors and large-scale developers to commit funding to build this new housing.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">But, in the interim, I believe every one of us in this and the other place can help all of these 6,200 people. Every single one of us have at least 20 to 30 of these people in lower house electorates and many hundreds in each of our states and territories. So what can we do? We can actually help by identifying those in our local areas and helping them to more quickly connect to health, aged-care and housing providers. We could also, on a case-by-case basis, just help them through the myriad state and federal agencies that are responsible for providing some of the support that they're not getting. We can also, all of us, work with our state parliamentary colleagues to ensure that all of these services are delivered for all of these younger Australians while they are still in aged care to transition to a much better and a much more independent life.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">I would like to thank Kirby, Carol, and Kevin for coming here, and also thank Summer Foundation, Youngcare, and the other agencies who have worked so hard on behalf of all of these people. But the fact that Kirby is here today, the fact that she is talking to us and travelling and doing all the amazing things she is now doing is not only a testament to the NDIA but it a testament to how wrong doctors can be and to the power of what can be done when we all come together and work together and look at the individual—for individuals like Kirby. It's very humbling. We are making progress, but there is so much more to be done.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Marriage</title>
          <page.no>32</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Marriage</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>32</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Pratt, Sen Louise</name>
              <name.id>I0T</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="I0T" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator PRATT</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Western Australia</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">12:53</span>):  Today I want to send a strong message to Australians who support marriage equality. I especially want to send a strong message to lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, intersex people throughout Australia's communities because, right now, we're feeling disheartened by this government's plan to conduct a postal survey on a question of our fundamental rights. My message is this: this postal survey is unfair, illegitimate and wrong. We should not have to go door-to-door to ask for our partner's hand in marriage. We already know that we have a majority of votes in the parliament to get this job done and we know a majority of Australians are in favour of marriage equality. We do not need a postal survey to tell us that. It's why a Labor government has committed to introducing a bill to change the Marriage Act within the first 100 days of a Shorten Labor government. But we must be clear about this: those who are against equality in the Liberal Party are using this postal survey as a ruse to stop the parliament from moving forward. It is ridiculous. The only reason the right of the Liberal Party want this postal vote is that they want to delay the inevitable. They don't believe in equality. They do not believe that I or even my child or the LGBTI community as a whole should have the same rights that they do. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">The MPs who pushed for this plebiscite, who are against marriage equality, have refused, indeed, to be bound even by its outcome. So, while they call for a public survey, they cannot even be trusted to act according to the wishes of the Australian people. Ultimately, in any case, it is this parliament that must vote to make marriage equality happen, but that should happen without this ridiculous survey that has been set up with so many obstacles in its path to a positive outcome. It has been set up with excuses to say hurtful, untrue things about families across the country. Those out there against marriage equality aren't talking about the mutual commitment between couples to love, care and support each other 'until death us do part'. That's not the argument that the opposite side of the debate is engaging in. Why? Because Australians, overwhelmingly, recognise that same-sex couples have those attributes already. The debate we are having, which has already begun, is not actually about marriage, and that is the most disappointing thing of all. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Sadly, we've seen those opposed to marriage equality make targets of the most vulnerable in our community with arguments that rainbow families are illegitimate, that marriage should somehow prescribe who has children in this country, that marriage equality will cause more people to change their gender and that marriage equality will mean schools can no longer teach their own religious values. None of these statements are true. They are ridiculous. What this shows is that those against marriage equality have lost the substantive debate. They don't want to talk about marriage. They want to create fear about LGBTI families, claim religious freedom is being limited, when it's not, and stigmatise people who are already dealing with discrimination in relation to issues of gender identity. They know they're on the wrong side of history. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Nevertheless, the things that they say are deeply hurtful, harmful and stigmatising. I don't have time in this short ten minutes to address them all, but I will touch on one that is very close to my own heart. Decades of research confirms that children do best in families with loving parents regardless of whether those parents are straight or gay. LGBTI people have been successfully parenting in Australia since there have been families. Our families have always been here, but it's only more recently that we've been more visible. Marriage equality won't change this, but it offers a much stronger security and belonging for all families. My own son is growing up in a rainbow family surrounded by loving parents. I hope for his sake, and for the kids of other rainbow families around Australia, that this hurtful survey does not go ahead and that it's rightfully knocked out in the courts. It's entirely unfair that the LGBTI community and our families should be singled out for special treatment by this government with this unfair postal survey. It can't possibly be fair to exclude some children from the security that comes from marriage. To invite such a debate about the status and legitimacy of people, families and children is a shameful thing to do.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">I can tell you that my feelings about these issues did not start because I'm gay myself and they did not start because I'm a mother. They were set in the schoolyard as a young child when my brother, who was almost exactly the same age as my son is now, was called a bastard. My mother and stepfather were not yet married and those words hurt; I didn't really know what they meant, but I knew they were bad. This is the kind of debate in schoolyards and in our community that this government is inviting through this postal survey. We should not be dragging the status of children into this debate.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">I highlight that the Marriage Act is outdated in so many ways. It not only excludes same-sex couples; it includes provisions that deem children to be 'legitimate' if their parents are married. The Marriage Act needs to be brought in line with the views of the 21st century. It needs to be brought in line with the full diversity of all Australian families, be they blended families, single parents, rainbow families, married couples with children, foster parents or grandparents raising children. We are all wonderful, diverse and valid families.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">So our Marriage Act needs to be changed. That does not need a postal vote or a plebiscite, but if this postal survey does go ahead, the only way to respond is with a resounding yes vote. We will not let those who are against equality win. I ask the Australian people to enrol to vote if you are not already enrolled, check your address and make sure you're enrolled at the address where you currently live, tell your friends to do the same, and then vote yes for equality.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Roads</title>
          <page.no>33</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Roads</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>33</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Rice, Sen Janet</name>
              <name.id>155410</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>AG</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="155410" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator RICE</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Victoria</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">13:02</span>):  Why do the Labor and Liberal parties, both state and federal, have such an obsession with toll roads? Let's look at Sydney, where the median house price is over a million dollars, where people are struggling to make ends meet and where young people are locked out of the housing market and forced to live further and further out from the city. Sydney will soon have more toll roads than the entire United Kingdom. Think about that for a moment. A city of four million people will have more toll roads than a country of 65 million people. Also, the Victorian government is planning a massive polluting toll road in the western suburbs of Melbourne, where the biggest, most desperate need is for more train services to service the expanding outer suburbs.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">This is at a time when carbon pollution from transport is continuing to rise, yet Labor and Liberal governments around the country are hell-bent on building expensive, unnecessary toll roads that will clog our cities with traffic and pollution. These toll roads will just line the pockets of a private corporation without providing Australians with the clean, efficient transport that one would expect we should have from an apparently modern, progressive so-called innovation nation. There is so much support in the community to give people the choice to get out of their cars and use public transport or walk or cycle. There is so much support for freight to be shifted out of trucks and onto rail. But governments right around the country don't have the willpower to put the money that's required into this type of transport for the future. Instead, they prefer to keep us in the past and are using a tonne of taxpayers' money to do so.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Building more roads does absolutely nothing to solve congestion. Nothing. Nada. In Victoria, the Labor government's own environmental effects statement on the proposed West Gate Tunnel shows that that toll road will only increase the congestion to the CBD, North Melbourne and Parkville. Indeed, Infrastructure Australia, the state government's independent advisory body, has said that building more roads just attracts more road users until these roads are congested once again.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">So why are governments building unnecessary and expensive toll roads that won't provide long-term solutions to congestion? In fact, they'll become the long-term problems of congestion. The Victorian government's own projections show that the West Gate Bridge will be more congested even than it is now, even with this new tunnel, in just 15 years time. And, if this new toll road is built, it will only save three minutes in travel time for people coming into the city and five minutes on the way out—such minuscule time savings for such a huge outlay of money.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">In the words of my colleague in New South Wales Mehreen Faruqi, we have reached peak toll road madness. The New South Wales government has said that the cost of the F6 extension could top $18 billion and rip through a national park. Let me just repeat that: $18 billion. That's $500 million per kilometre. This is just mind boggling. It's triple the cost of rail upgrades that would slash the travel time between Sydney and Wollongong and actually provide a solution to Sydney's housing crisis.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Globally, we're seeing countries move away from building more roads to more efficient, cleaner and more affordable public transport. But not in Australia: we have Labor and Liberal governments and oppositions recklessly supporting and building toll road after toll road after toll road. A train line can move people in the way that roads just can't. An efficient train line carries the same number of people as 10 to 12 lanes of freeway traffic. Imagine what $18 billion for the F6 toll road could do for Sydney's public transport, or what the $5.5 billion that the West Gate Tunnel is going to cost could do towards public transport in Melbourne in the rapidly growing western suburbs, including the much-needed rail line to the airport. That's what people are crying out for, or connecting regional areas with the city, providing more opportunities for people in regional areas to find jobs in the city and to ease the pressure people are faced with from unaffordable houses in the capital cities, especially in Sydney and Melbourne.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">When Tarneit station opened in Melbourne's outer west in 2015 people flocked to it, making it one of the busiest V/Line stations in the state after Southern Cross. It shows that, if you give people good public transport infrastructure, they will use it. People have a thirst for fast, efficient transport options that don't clog our cities and don't cost them the earth. It's patently clear that all around the country toll roads are extending their death grip on our cities and that toll road companies are essentially being given a licence to print money. Consequently, governments right around the country are refusing to provide proper transparency and accountability in their dealings and their contracts with toll road operators. In Victoria, we had the Victorian Labor government swept into power on a ticket of canning the East West Link, another unnecessary toll road, but on taking office it immediately set to work on the West Gate Tunnel, funded by Transurban by charging tolls on the tunnel and on CityLink after the government proposed to extend the tolls on CityLink for another 10 to 12 years.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">It was because of these sorts of dodgy deals that the Greens secured a Senate inquiry into toll roads earlier this year, allowing the Senate to look at the financial arrangements of existing and proposed toll roads. This inquiry, which I'm a member of, received a submission and heard testimony from Mr William McDougall, a transport planner with 40 years experience—30 years of that in Australia. He worked as a consultant on the West Gate Tunnel highway, working with the independent peer reviewer, but he was moved off the project when he raised his concerns about the transport and economic modelling. He raised his concerns, which the independent peer reviewer also shared, with the Victorian Treasurer, Tim Pallas. His submission and testimony alleged that Transurban's economic and traffic benefits were deliberately distorted and misrepresented and that the justification for spending billions of dollars on taxpayers' money was based on flawed traffic modelling and cost-benefit analysis. So what happened when Mr McDougall, working with the independent reviewer, raised these concerns with the project team and raised these concerns with the Treasurer? He was taken off the job.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Despite the acknowledgment amongst experts that Australians are travelling less and less in cars, particularly in Melbourne, the traffic results produced by the consultants on the West Gate Tunnel that Mr McDougall was questioning were significantly higher than traffic surveys showed, with the figures utilising a methodological fudge to illustrate increases in traffic.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">If this wasn't enough, Mr McDougall noted that consultants fudged the figures in the cost-benefit analysis of the toll road and used guidelines from other countries that showed a higher cost-benefit analysis than the local Australian guidelines would have produced. Mr McDougall noted that no other Australian cost-benefit analysis he was aware of has incorporated this effect, which has overstated the benefits of the West Gate tollway to the tune of $780 million. It doesn't end there either. A technicality in the business case was used to exclude the enormous cost of the transport network in Melbourne that comes from the increased traffic caused by the tollway when it opens. Increased congestion into the CBD comes at a cost. Yet, the independent peer review that Mr McDougall was working on has not been made public. The critical parts of the business case have not be made public. They have not been released. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">The Labor government dumped the East West Link because the business case didn't add up. It cost taxpayers a billion dollars to exit the contract. While in opposition, the Labor government repeatedly called on the Baillieu Liberal government to release the East West Link's business case. Yet, they're not releasing the critical parts of the business case and they have not released the independent peer review. Let's not forget to mention the group that was responsible for the business case for the East West Link, which the Labor government in Victoria absolutely panned, is the very same group that produced the West Gate Tunnel tollway business case. What a difference a few years makes. They are different governments, but same old story—hypocrisy at its finest. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">The public is being kept in the dark. What are our governments hiding from the public who are forced to use and pay these toll roads and whose taxpayer dollars are being spent without their knowledge on projects that do nothing to reduce travel time or congestion? Labor and Liberal parties are obsessed with toll roads and serving the interests of the toll road operators, particularly Transurban. Why? When they refuse to release the independent business case? It begs the question: what are they hiding? <span style="font-style:italic;">(Time expired)</span></span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Tasmania: Dairy Industry</title>
          <page.no>34</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Tasmania: Dairy Industry</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>34</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Duniam, Sen Jonathon</name>
              <name.id>263418</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>LP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="263418" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator DUNIAM</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Tasmania</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">13:12</span>):  I'll start by inviting Senator Rice to spend some more time in Tasmania where we don't have a single toll road. It's a great part of the country. We're very proud of it. I rise today to continue my theme on senators' statements to highlight the positive things coming out of Tasmania. It's always a pleasure to see Senator Urquhart in the chamber who has the joy of sharing the positivity about Tasmania. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Today, I'm talking about the dairy industry in Tasmania. It is one of the biggest agricultural sectors in our state which has an annual worth of over a billion dollars—which is a significant chunk of what Tasmania is about in terms of economic outputs. We've seen a growth of over 42 per cent in milk production in Tasmania over the last decade. To give you a bit of an idea of the size of the industry in Tasmania, there are approximately 430 dairy farmers in our small state, running an average of 336 cows per farm, which is higher than the national average of 272 cows per farm. The industry also employs around 1,400 people across the regional parts of our state. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Over recent years, there's been an increase in the number of small-scale dairy operations and cheese-making operations across the state as more operators move to take advantage of Tasmania's unique brand, which is world-renowned. At this point, I would like to take the opportunity to spruik, again, the flavours of Tasmania being held in the Great Hall tonight. I hope all senators from right across the country will join with me in sampling the fine delights from our great state, including our dairy products. I look forward to seeing you there, Senator Burston. WA senators are welcome to attend, of course. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">In addition to the small-scale dairy operations that are growing around our state, we also have a number of major dairy operations investing heavily in our state. They include Fonterra and Mondelez, who are the owners of the Cadbury brand. Many in this chamber would recognise other well-known brands which include: Ashgrove Cheese, Pyengana cheese, Westhaven Dairy, Bruny Island Cheese Company, The Wicked Cheese Company, Grandvewe Cheeses and Betta Milk Co-operative Society. As I said, it's a great opportunity, when travelling across Tasmania, to visit some of these operations and to see how they masterfully turn such a simple product into a premium item that many people from across the world want to purchase and take home with them. Over the next decade, milk production in Tasmania has the potential to grow from 883 million litres per year to around 1½ billion litres per annum. Of course, that's all dependent on the continued investment in additional processing capacity to ensure that we get as much milk processed as possible. That means almost a doubling in a decade of what we produce now. That's a huge growth in this market. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">On this subject, it's a pleasure to talk about the Into Dairy project which was established in 2013. It is an industry program aimed at accelerating the growth of Tasmania's annual milk production to meet the significant shortfall of 350 million litres between processing capacity and current farm output. In the last two years, milk-processing capacity in Tasmania has accelerated rapidly, as evidenced by Fonterra's $6.5 million gas conversion at the Spreyton plant in 2011 and the $12 million upgrade of its Wynyard cheese plant in 2010. Fonterra previously processed 65 per cent of the state's milk, with capacity for over 500 megalitres. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Tasmanian Dairy Products has invested $75 million in a new milk powder operation in Smithton, generating much-needed employment. It opened in September 2012 with a capacity of over 250 megalitres. Lion invested $150 million into a new plant in Burnie during 2013 and 2014, which centralises their national cheese making. It will mean 50 megalitres to 100 megalitres of additional milk-processing capacity. It is also great to point out that they have investments planned on King Island which, I think we all would agree, is much needed for that community. Cadbury has also invested significantly in recent years in their chocolate-making process in Burnie and in Claremont with a further $4 million invested in May this year for new equipment. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">I'd be lying to say that it is all good news. Of course, occasionally, we do see some of the pressures faced by milk processors and our dairy farmers. This is a sign of the struggles the industry has faced and the increasing international competition that our milk industry, our dairy industry, is facing. We can't ignore that. It's important to point those things out as the reason it was important that the Into Dairy project was supported the way that it was. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">On the north-west coast, it is my pleasure to join my state colleague Liberal member for Braddon, Joan Rylah, on the Circular Head Regional Economic Working Group which was established shortly after Murray Goulburn made their announcement that they would be closing their operation at Edith Creek. I look forward to working with the members of that working group and those people who previously supplied that processing facility on solutions for the dairy industry in that region. It is pleasing to note, though, that the Edith Creek plant is definitely on the market with Murray Goulburn seeking to sell that asset, which means local operators or other interstate or even international operators may wish to come in and get a stake in the premium industry that is the Tasmanian dairy industry. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">The Into Dairy program was an integrated approach to help build investment, create jobs growth and increase cow herds in Tasmania. The aforementioned challenges—the shrinkage of the industry, the international competition and the problems of milk prices that we have had much reporting on over the last couple of years—are part of the reason this program was so important. I recently had the pleasure of officially marking the achievements of the Into Dairy program—which was all about sustainable dairy development and of course a very important investment in Tasmania's future—on the farm of Jason and Karen Chilcott in the beautiful Meander Valley behind Deloraine. I was doing so on behalf of a very effective representative of regional Australia: Senator Fiona Nash. At the marking of the achievements of this program, we did a quick tour of Jason and Karen's dairy farm, and it was great to see the developments that they have invested in, including a robotic milking and pasture management system, which is a sign of where this industry is heading. Most people who consume milk, most people who live in cities, don't really have a great appreciation of the effort and now the precision that dairy farmers engage in when undertaking these operations.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">This innovative project, supported by Into Dairy, will help ensure that the Tasmanian dairy industry can meet the current dairy processing requirements and capacity and sustain future milk growth requirements, with the plans on foot to convert an additional 18 conventional farms into dairy production farms. Into Dairy has also engaged with agribusiness and banks to encourage investment in automated or robot milking systems, again increasing the capacity of milk output across Tasmania.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Importantly—and this was the best part for me—this project is aimed at encouraging young Tasmanians to seek a career in the Tasmanian dairy industry. It is about keeping them in our regional communities and finding employment in our regional communities. That's an incredibly important part of this project.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">The project was jointly funded by the Australian government, with just shy of $375,000; the Tasmanian government, $740,000; DairyTas, $90,000; and contributions from a number of industry partners to the tune of $366,000. Everyone had buy-in, and it had great industry and community support.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">It's great to travel around Tasmania, as I previously said, to see the dairy farmers and farmers generally just getting on with what they do best, and that is working hard to provide the economic activity that they do and indeed to keep us fed and watered. As a Tasmanian representative—and I'm sure I speak on behalf of others from my great state—I can say that we absolutely value the contribution of our dairy industry and the contribution that they make to our economy and our regional communities.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Dairy farmers in Tasmania have a lot to be positive about. The future looks good for the industry and those participating in it. And—as my message to Tasmanians looking for a job for the future—there's never been a better time to think about getting involved in the Tasmanian dairy sector.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Doughty, Mr Elijah</title>
          <page.no>36</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Doughty, Mr Elijah</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>36</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Dodson, Sen Patrick</name>
              <name.id>SR5</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="SR5" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator DODSON</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Western Australia</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">13:22</span>):  I rise to bring attention to a tragic story, the story of Elijah Doughty. Elijah lived in the city of Kalgoorlie-Boulder. He was 14 years of age. Kalgoorlie is known for the tensions that exist between Indigenous and non-Indigenous residents, but it is home for many people. This is important background for the story that follows.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Elijah Doughty was killed just before 9 am on 29 August 2016. A man in a two-tonne Nissan Navara ute ran over Elijah, who was riding a small 70cc motorbike. But this wasn't an average road accident. The man had gone to the area known as Gribble Creek to look for two motorbikes stolen from his home the day before. He said police had told him to go there because the area was a known dumping ground. When he arrived, he noticed 14-year-old Elijah on a motorbike, and he made, in his words, a 'split-second' decision to chase him. Elijah was never going to get away from the ute. The chase ended with Elijah rolled under the over-one-tonne ute. Elijah died instantly at the scene, his spinal cord severed at the base of his brain.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">A bike for a life is not justice. The next day, the man was charged with manslaughter, and the town of Kalgoorlie erupted. The man's house was burnt down, and his wife and two children moved out of Western Australia because of concerns for their safety. I do not and never will condone violence in our communities, but the behaviour that followed in the community, particularly the Indigenous community, was consistent with their ongoing sense of justice denied.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">The perception in the community of justice denied did not stop there. The jury of the Supreme Court of Western Australia cleared the man of manslaughter, instead finding him guilty of the lesser charge of dangerous driving causing death. He was given a sentence of three years jail and a licence disqualification for two years. He will be eligible for parole and, because he has already served 11 months, the man could be out as early as January next year. There is no appeal of the sentence. The Aboriginal community felt the message was that you can kill an Aboriginal person without too much consequence.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">I cannot help but see similarities between Elijah's case and the 1983 death of 16-year-old John Pat in Roebourne. It sparked the royal commission into Aboriginal deaths in custody. In Elijah's case, I do not question or criticise the validity of the court judgement, but when I saw the news breaking across the television that the accused had been acquitted of manslaughter, I knew that the community could feel that justice has been denied yet again. This was echoed across the country in the weeks that followed. In comparison to the protests that erupted after John Pat's death, the protests were largely peaceful. People marched with signs that read 'Justice for Elijah' and 'No justice, no peace'.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">After Elijah's death, I sat down with Albert Doughty, Elijah's grandfather, who had been looking after him. I sat with him as a grandfather to a grandfather, listened to his story and shared his grief for his dear grandchild and the concerns he had for his other grandchildren. I'm here to recognise Elijah Doughty and the tragedy of his death. I'm here to honour this little boy, his humanity and his family.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">On the day the Supreme Court handed down the sentence, once I had been able to collect my thoughts, I wrote to Albert. I found it very hard. In my mind again were the senseless deaths of Ms Dhu, in a Port Hedland lockup, and Mr Ward, fried to death in the back of a prison van on his way back to Kalgoorlie. I wanted Albert to know that Elijah's death mattered and that what happened to him was an unfair and unjust tragedy. I wanted him to know the family was not alone. And I wanted also the community of Kalgoorlie to know that they had to take compassion and leadership in this matter and that I'm confident that the community and the family will heal.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT:</span>  Thank you. That was quite a moving presentation, Senator Dodson.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>37</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT, The</name>
                <name.id>10000</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Trade Unions</title>
          <page.no>37</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Trade Unions</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>37</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Burston, Sen Brian</name>
              <name.id>207807</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>PHON</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="207807" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator BURSTON</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">13:27</span>):  Two weeks ago, the CFMEU began full-page attack advertisements against me in the <span style="font-style:italic;">Newcastle Herald</span> over four days with the caption, 'One Nation and Brian Burston have failed us on jobs' and implied that my support for the government's ABCC bill caused fewer apprenticeships to be created on government jobs. The advertisements were also run on local prime-time television and radio. I estimate the cost of these advertisements to be around $100,000—another waste of members' money.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">To infer that I do not support jobs and apprenticeships is absurd. To support my position, I submit for the public record my experience in regard to apprenticeships and training generally. In December 1963, I began an apprenticeship boilermaker with BHP, known as 'The Big Australian', in Newcastle—yes, 55 years ago. I was 15 years and 10 months old. I needed approval from the Department of Labour and Industry because I was an under-age employee; I wasn't 16 years of age at that time.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">My father always instilled in his boys the need to get a trade behind us. Indeed my twin brother and eldest brother were also apprentice boilermakers. I commenced work in the apprentice training centre and spent two years learning the fundamentals of the trade. I moved around several departments on site—the rod shop, the bar mill, the blast furnace. These were filthy, dangerous places. Indeed, I recall that up to eight employees were killed on site in one year. So I am aware of the dangers that exist on all construction and industrial sites. I later worked over three shifts, which itself presented enormous challenges to a young apprentice. My apprenticeship was a five-year apprenticeship, a tough ask when you consider I had to get up at 4:30 every morning and catch a double-decker bus from Cessnock to Port Waratah in Newcastle, which was a two-hour trip each way. I recall my first pay was $14 for the fortnight. I also remember I was indentured for five years, and that was my first apprenticeship.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">When I completed my apprenticeship, I left BHP to work on the Liddell Power Station. It was a coal-fired power station then under construction in the Hunter Valley. In 1970, I started work at a drawing office in Newcastle, and soon after began a traineeship in engineering drafting with the then PMG Department, at Redfern mail exchange. I recall my annual salary for the first year was $4,298. I simultaneously studied for an associated diploma in structural engineering, graduating in 1973. That was my second apprenticeship. I held the position of design draftsman for 10 years. In 1978, I applied for and was successful in securing a teaching position in engineering drawing. This was initially a traineeship in teaching—my third apprenticeship. I graduated from the renowned Sydney Teachers' College in 1983. As a TAFE teacher I trained many hundreds of apprentices and draftsmen during the 10 years I was a teacher of engineering drawing. I trained apprentices and drafting students in such areas as boilermaking, fitting and turning, plumbing, welding, foundry, architecture, building construction, automotive engineering et cetera.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">At the time I started teaching apprentices we used T-squares and set squares, and then drawing machines. We had no such things as calculators—they weren't even invented. We used slide rules instead. We calculated square root long-hand and used trig tables. Computers were then mainframe. Computer aided drafting, or CAD as it's known, did not start until about 1984 in TAFE colleges, and was so primitive we got excited when we drew a line on the screen. I've seen technology and training methods change dramatically over the past 55 years.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">In May 1987, I resigned my position of the TAFE system because of the rape of the education system overall by the NSW Liberal government headed by Nick Greiner. However, in 2010 I decided to return to TAFE teaching in 3D computer modelling on a part-time basis at Newcastle TAFE. In 2012, following the sudden death of my friend and teacher Harry Roberts, the New South Wales Liberal government closed the engineering drawing section.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">So it is not Brian Burston and One Nation that is a threat to apprenticeships and jobs; it is the mainstream political parties, including Labor, who drastically reduce education funding at a state level across Australia. Pauline Hanson's One Nation has a strong apprenticeship policy, which is available online. Essentially, we propose the government pay 75 per cent of apprenticeship wages in the first year, 50 per cent in the second and 25 per cent in the third. These subsidies would go to the employer, because productivity is of course low in the first few years of an apprenticeship. Tradesmen add significantly to GDP over their lifetime and will more than repay this investment via increased economic activity. I have been involved in adult training for almost 55 years. The CFMEU campaign is deceitful and dishonest, and I say to Michael O'Connor and his cohorts: concentrate on what is good for Australia and Australians, and stop being a bully.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Trade Unions</title>
          <page.no>38</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Trade Unions</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>38</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Abetz, Sen Eric</name>
              <name.id>N26</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>LP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="N26" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator ABETZ</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Tasmania</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">13:33</span>):  Recent revelations exposing the shadowy transfer of $100,000 of Australian Workers' Union money into the establishment of the now discredited left-wing activist organisation GetUp! require Mr Shorten, the Leader of the Australian Labor Party, to at least explain, if not apologise for, his and his union's actions. What we now know is that the AWU used $100,000 of its union members' money to help establish GetUp!. Might I add that we know these things—no thanks to Mr Shorten, no thanks to the Australian Workers Union and no thanks to GetUp!—through the result of some investigative journalism. The questions I pose are: why the secrecy? Why the obfuscation? Why the refusal to answer questions? The stench that is GetUp!, an organisation that runs grossly dishonest, deceptive and manipulative campaigns to support the ugly extreme left of Australian politics, became the beneficiary of the hard-earned dollars of workers and, unbeknownst to them, of workers' money. Workers struggling to make ends meet, workers struggling to manage the household budget, are having their union funds deployed in a manner about which they were never informed.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">The Australian Workers' Union rules require disclosure. As a result, on Monday I did write to the Registered Organisations Commission inviting them to investigate this. Yesterday I got a response to indicate that that is what they were going to do. I look forward to their diligent work in this area to expose that which has not been exposed today. But I say the fact that the Australian Workers' Union rules actually require proper and full disclosure is a good and proper thing. The rules should require this. But this is not only a technical rule or something that you have to do because somehow it's in the rule book; this should be done because decency requires disclosure. Integrity requires disclosure. The long-suffering members of the Australian Workers' Union are entitled to know why their funds helped secretly bankroll and set up GetUp!, an organisation which is intent on destroying their jobs. Let's make no mistake about the campaigns GetUp! actually gets involved in. They are intent on destroying the jobs of many members of the Australian Workers' Union.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">So why would an allegedly proud trade union leader like Mr Shorten secretly funnel $100,000 to the establishment of GetUp! and himself serve on the original board of GetUp!? What on earth could have been the motive for that? If he was so proud of channelling this money, why not disclose? Why not tell the workers and the public why he did this and how much was given? I think it's now been a decade of secrecy which Mr Shorten and the Australian Workers' Union have engaged in. So I pose the question: why would Mr Shorten do such a thing as secretly use his members' money to bankroll this outfit known as GetUp!? I trust it was not to assist him to get some credentials in his later parliamentary and leadership bids with the Australian Labor Party.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">We do know, courtesy of the royal commission, that a building company went bankrupt but prior to its bankruptcy shovelled tens of thousands of dollars into Mr Shorten's personal campaign for the seat that he went on to contest for the Labor Party, doing a deal that was uncovered by the royal commission and which has been ventilated in a manner which shows the dishonourable way in which Mr Shorten went about getting money from a company for himself in circumstances where workers were being underpaid and the Australian Workers' Union turned a blind eye.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Of course, Mr Shorten didn't only do it there. He also did it with the Chiquita Mushrooms workers. Whenever Mr Shorten talks about penalty rates, I am sure that in the back of his mind he must be tortured, knowing that he and his union were the architects of denying penalty rates to those Chiquita Mushroom workers, who must be watching their TV screens in absolute disbelief at the duplicity and the hypocrisy of the man who now allegedly champions penalty rates, having done such a great disservice to them.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">So why did Mr Shorten offload $100,000? It is a big lick of money in anybody's language, but even more so about a decade ago. If it was such a good thing to do, why wouldn't he be telling his mates in the union: 'Guess what? We are going to bankroll this outfit of GetUp! because you know what? When it gets up and running, it'll be out there destroying your job day after day. We'll be getting rid of the sorts of jobs, in coalmines and elsewhere around Australia, that you rely on. We will destroy them by bankrolling GetUp!' Possibly that mightn't have been a good message to sell to the membership. Could that be the reason that Mr Shorten didn't tell his members? Is that why the Australian Workers' Union were so intent on keeping it secret from their membership?</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">GetUp! is an outfit that is a blot on our democratic system. In 2007, the Australian Electoral Commission, no less, had to warn GetUp! that it was engaging in misleading and deceptive activity because it had a vote generator which, no matter what you put in and no matter what your policies were, always told you to vote Labor or Greens; it never came out to vote for the coalition. Indeed, my former colleague Andrew Robb went through it and gave the most conservative answers possible, and the dishonest GetUp! vote generator told him to vote Labor in his own electorate. This is the sort of the sort of dishonesty and the sort of manipulative manner in which GetUp! has become a blot on the Australian democratic system.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Not content with that, similar activity was engaged in in the 2010 election, in the 2013 election and, of course, again in the 2016 election, where they peddled the fantasy of there being a $57 billion cut in health. It was so gross a misrepresentation that even ABC's Fact Check had to say GetUp! was wrong. When even the ABC has to say that about GetUp! you've got to realise that something is badly, badly wrong with GetUp!.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">This is the organisation Mr Shorten helped establish not only by being on the original board but by secretly bankrolling them to the tune of $100,000. I call on Mr Shorten today to stop the obfuscation and save the taxpayers a lot of money so there won't be this need for an investigation by the Registered Organisations Commission. Come clean. Tell us why you did it, how you did it, and the reasons for your nondisclosure. The Australian Workers' Union members of this country and all Australians deserve nothing less.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Trade Unions, Energy</title>
          <page.no>39</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p>
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Trade Unions</span>
              </p>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Energy</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>39</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Chisholm, Sen Anthony</name>
              <name.id>39801</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="39801" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CHISHOLM</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">13:43</span>):  For the second time today, what we've seen is a conspiracy theory wrapped in a smear. That's all we've heard from Senator Abetz opposite. We heard it this morning with the government's attempted effort to censure Senator Wong, and we've seen it again this afternoon. It is just nothing more than a conspiracy wrapped in a smear. It is what we have come to expect from this dysfunctional government. As an Australian Workers' Union member of long standing, including during that period, I have no problem with the union donating to GetUp! because what is important, and what I pick up from union members across the country, is that they're worried about the future. They're worried about what sort of country is going to be left for their kids. That is important. I don't agree with every campaign that GetUp! run, but they have an absolute right to do it and I fully support the role that unions play in supporting their activities, because it is an important part of democracy. We heard from Senator Abetz. He basically disagrees with the campaigns that they run and he encouraged the vendetta against them and against the ABC. We see it across so many issues that Senator Abetz disagrees with.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">But what I came in here to talk about—and I think it is really ironic that I would follow on from such a contribution—is energy prices in this country. What we have seen from this government, this week and last week, is not one discussion of or one point made about the Finkel report. The government commissioned the report. It was handed down months ago now. And we're still no closer to progressing this issue that is so important to Australia's future, for families paying more under this government and for people who are losing jobs because of the decisions of this government. Australia clearly deserves so much better than what they are getting from this government.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Recently, as part of my travels throughout Queensland, I visited the Boyne smelter in Gladstone, one of the biggest employers in the Gladstone region with over a thousand workers. Earlier this year they made the unfortunate decision to cut production, which meant that they had to lay off some workers. In an area such as Gladstone, which is already suffering from an economic downturn post the mining boom, this was a significant blow to the community. Unfortunately, one of the reasons they made that decision was around their ability to secure affordable power through their existing contract. The power for the Boyne smelter comes from the NRG plant in Gladstone itself, just down the road from the smelter. This is a coal-fired power station that was built in the late seventies and early eighties—ironically, with some federal money. And I think it might be the last coal-fired power station that was built with some federal money.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">For me, this is a real example of how the National Electricity Market isn't working: that this NRG power station in Gladstone is operating with spare capacity—they have spare capacity in the system—but the Boyne smelter cannot get power at an economically affordable rate to boost production and employ those extra people that they had over recent years. It just shows you the dysfunction in this market that this government is overseeing: we've got a coal-fired power station nearby, and a need for that to boost jobs and production at that smelter, yet it is not economically viable for the smelter to maintain production levels and employ more locals and boost the local community.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">And what is the response from this government? Just dysfunction and chaos. The only solid policy we have seen from them is cutting the energy supplement. Families are paying more. The wholesale price has doubled under the Abbott-Turnbull government. And Australians are suffering as a result. We know that the Finkel report came down recently, and this government is hopelessly divided. We are waiting for them to declare a winner in the contest between the former Prime Minister and the current Prime Minister so that the country can move forward.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Labor has signalled continually that we are willing to work with the government on a clean energy target. It is not our preferred option but, in the interests of the nation, we are prepared to meet the government halfway. But we've seen no action from the government. We haven't even seen a discussion from them; they have been busy eating themselves up over a costly postal survey and the dysfunction that we've seen this week as a result of section 44 of the Constitution. So the division and confusion around this government's plans for Australia's energy future are adding to the crippling investment uncertainty and driving investment away. Under this government, prices are up, pollution is up and reliability is down.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">The National Electricity Market in Australia currently gets 76 per cent of its electricity from coal. We have one of the most coal-intensive electricity systems in the world, and there is nothing in the clean energy target that would seek to expedite the shutting down of these power stations. But the government cannot see this. They continue to be bitterly divided on it, and a long-term policy commitment from them still seems a long way off.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Let's look at the recent differences in the LNP on this issue. Senators O'Sullivan and Macdonald yesterday pushed a ridiculous motion from government senators which just added to the confusion we are seeing from this government on energy policy. The motion sought to misrepresent a recommendation of the Environment and Communications References Committee relating entirely to the retirement of coal-fired power stations. The government itself called out its own senators for jumping the gun when Senator McGrath stated on behalf of the government:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">The government is currently considering the <span style="font-style:italic;">Retirement of coal fired power stations</span> report and we will respond in due course.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">The fact of the matter is that senators opposite couldn't be bothered contributing constructively to an actual energy policy. Their only goal is to wedge the Labor Party and they have no intention of standing up for electricity users, the industry or communities by actually governing and delivering energy policy outcomes. On their watch the Hazelwood Power Station closed down, with little forward notice, leaving energy reliability at risk in Victoria. The report from Finkel said that we need to give so much more notice when it comes to these generators. We know that some are scheduled to close down over coming decades. But six months notice is not enough to plan for this to happen. It leaves communities devastated and it also hurts the market at the same time. Quite often these generators are in regional or rural areas. They are in places that can least afford a sudden downturn as we saw with Hazelwood.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Again, all the government wants to do is play politics with these issues without solving the important part of this so that those communities can have certainty into the future. They continue to stick their heads in the sand on coal-fired power and they have no transition plan for older plants. The real intervention this week—and I think it's no coincidence that this happened whilst Senator Canavan is out of the cabinet—came from the Treasurer, Scott Morrison. This is a real symptom of the chaos and dysfunction from those opposite. On Monday, in <span style="font-style:italic;">The Financial Review</span>, the Treasurer admitted that the energy policy of the National Party and the Queensland LNP is a joke. The Treasurer said:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">… new cheap coal is a bit of a myth.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">He went on to say:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">… let's not think that there's cheap new coal, there's not. And [HELE] takes seven years to turn up, so if we think that is all of a sudden going to make your power bills cheaper next month, it won't.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">So the Treasurer of this federal LNP government has exposed that the Queensland senators and the Queensland LNP state opposition are actively pedalling the hoax that they have a plan to lower power prices, when they don't. It was Treasurer Morrison who belled the cat on this. Once again, the only solid policy we have seen from them is a cut to the energy supplement, which leaves thousands of Australians worse-off. More than 400,000 age pensioners, 109,000 people on the disability support pension and 105,000 carers will suffer from the Turnbull government's decision to scrap the energy supplement, while power prices continue to skyrocket.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">We're also aware of another recent example of the hypocrisy from those opposite in regard to renewable energy. What did I see in a report in the South Australian newspaper a couple of days ago? They come in here during question time and lecture us on renewable energy in South Australia. But what did they commit to earlier this week? They committed $110 million for a solar thermal renewable energy plant in South Australia. That's them! That's what the government have done—$110 million. I was actually looking for a quote from the minister responsible, but we didn't see anything. So they seem to be running from that contribution they have made in South Australia. In short, what have we seen from this government? Prices are up, emissions are up, reliability is down and Australians are suffering. This is a sorry legacy from this government on energy policy.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Kelly, The Hon. Charles Robert 'Bert', CMG</title>
          <page.no>41</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Kelly, The Hon. Charles Robert 'Bert', CMG</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>41</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Smith, Sen Dean</name>
              <name.id>241710</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>LP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="241710" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator SMITH</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Western Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Deputy Government Whip in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">13:53</span>):  In the last few moments before we proceed to question time, I would like to talk about a man who no less than Gough Whitlam credited as being one of the most successful legislators in Australian history. Gough Whitlam said of this gentleman:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">No private member has had as much influence in changing a major policy of the major parties.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Who was that individual?</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Gough Whitlam was of course talking about Bert Kelly. And I will come very shortly, Senator Paterson, to the great work of the Society of Modest Members—the very modest work of the Society of Modest Members!</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">We have heard lots in this chamber over the last two weeks about the importance of equality and the importance of fairness. In the wonderful book, called <span style="font-style:italic;">One More Nail</span>, written by Bert Kelly, a discussion of his time in parliament and his reflections, he talks in chapter 16 about some of the sacred cows that parliamentarians come across as they do their electorate duties. I'm sure this is as true today as it was then in 1960s and 1970s. At the beginning of chapter 16, Bert Kelly says:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">Members of Parliament soon learn that there are some solid, reliable subjects about which the electorate loves to hear their Member give tongue.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">And he begins to parade a few of them in that chapter. At the end of that chapter he talks about this particular sacred cow:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">Another sacred cow that the electorate loves you to pat is the idea of everyone being equal. By so doing you appear as a man of sympathy and understanding. But most times we have to make a choice between cutting the economic cake into equal but smaller slices, or having unequal slices cut from a bigger cake. This is a very great pity because I find the flaunting of unequal wealth irritating and demeaning. But the awful truth is that there are too many people around like me. If I find that taxation is taking too much of what I produce, then I stop working hard and taking risks, so the economic cake is not as big as it would have been if taxation had been lower. But most of our taxation goes to make people more equal.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">This is a particularly important contribution, because over the last few weeks we have heard much talk in this place about equality and rising levels of inequality. Others on this side of the chamber argue that what Labor seeks to do is to provide a very simple analysis. But Bert Kelly goes on to say towards the end of chapter 16:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">Everyone knows this, of course, but I have never seen it so clearly expressed as by Professor Hayek in his great book <span style="font-style:italic;">The</span><span style="font-style:italic;">Constitution of Liberty</span>:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">And from that book he quotes:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">The range of what will be tried and later developed, the fund of experience that will become available to all, is greatly extended by the unequal distribution of present benefits; and the rate of advance will be greatly increased if the first steps are taken long before the majority can profit from them. Many of the improvements would indeed never become a possibility for all if they had not long before been available to some. If all had to wait for better things until they could be provided for all, that day would in many instances never come. Even the poorest today owe their relative material well-being to the results of past inequality.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Kelly continues:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">Hayek then gives point to this thesis with his powerful statement:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">And he then cites page 48 of Hayek's book:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">At any given moment we could improve the position of the poorest by giving them what we took from the wealthy. But, while such an equalizing of the positions in the column of progress would temporarily quicken the closing-up of the ranks, it would, before long, slow down the movement of the whole and in the long run hold back those in the rear. Recent European experience strongly confirms this. The rapidity with which rich societies here have become static, if not stagnant, societies through egalitarian politics, while impoverished but highly competitive countries have come very dynamic and progressive, has been one of the most conspicuous features of the postwar period.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">In making this brief contribution this afternoon I would just like to highlight that debates about equality and inequality are not new to this chamber, nor are they new to this parliament.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>  Thank you, Senator Smith. Senator Bernardi you have one minute and 17 seconds.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
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                <page.no>41</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">PRESIDENT, The</name>
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                <party />
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            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Kelly, Mr Charles Robert 'Bert', CMG</title>
          <page.no>41</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Kelly, Mr Charles Robert 'Bert', CMG</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>41</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Bernardi, Sen Cory</name>
              <name.id>G0D</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>AC</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="G0D" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator BERNARDI</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">13:58</span>):  I just thought I would put this on the record, because Senator Smith neglected to mention it, that The Bert Kelly Research Centre is located at 28 King William Street in Kent Town in South Australia, a building with which I and the Australian Conservatives have some linkage. I think it is important for all you to know that!</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>  Thank you, Senator Bernardi. We are about 40-odd seconds away from 2 pm, so we might just pause for a moment—</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span class="HPS-MemberIInterjecting">Senator Bernardi interjecting</span>—</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>  With the concurrence of the Senate, if the Senate grants you another 40 seconds you may continue.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="G0D" type="MemberContinuation">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator BERNARDI:</span>
                  </a>  I thank the indulgence of the Senate, because Bert Kelly, indeed, was one of those rare individuals who had the strength of his convictions to carry on in the face of great adversity. He showed things that I admire: tenacity and resilience. They are qualities which we should encourage in our children. The point, also, is that what I think Mr Kelly had won, which we all took for granted—that markets were good, that free trade was good and that tariff barriers weren't in the long-term interest—seems to have been lost. I stand with the modest members, to suggest that free markets are in the interests of this country. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>  Order. It being 2 pm, we now move to questions without notice. </span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>42</page.no>
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                <name role="metadata">PRESIDENT, The</name>
                <name.id>10000</name.id>
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                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
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            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>42</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">PRESIDENT, The</name>
                <name.id>10000</name.id>
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                <in.gov />
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              </talker>
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            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>42</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Bernardi, Sen Cory</name>
                <name.id>G0D</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party>AC</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>42</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">PRESIDENT, The</name>
                <name.id>10000</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE</title>
        <page.no>42</page.no>
        <type>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <debate.text>
        <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
          <p class="HPS-Debate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Debate">QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE</span>
          </p>
        </body>
      </debate.text>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Deputy Prime Minister</title>
          <page.no>42</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Deputy Prime Minister</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>42</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Gallagher, Sen Katy</name>
              <name.id>ING</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="ING" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator GALLAGHER</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Australian Capital Territory</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Manager of Opposition Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:00</span>):  My question is to Senator Brandis, the minister representing the Minister for Foreign Affairs. Minister, the New Zealand Minister of Internal Affairs, Peter Dunne, said in relation to claims of a conspiracy to reveal the Deputy Prime Minister's New Zealand citizenship, 'This is so much utter nonsense'. Does the government accept Minister Dunne's statement that Australian media inquiries were the instigator of the discovery?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>42</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Brandis, Sen George</name>
              <name.id>008W7</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>LP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="008W7" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator BRANDIS</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Attorney-General, Vice-President of the Executive Council and Leader of the Government in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:00</span>):  I don't accept that that's what he said and I don't accept that that was the issue to which he was responding when he made those remarks. I have so much experience of Labor senators misrepresenting and misquoting statements by members of other places that I don't accept it, Senator Gallagher. But I tell you what I do accept. I do accept what Mr Bill English, the Prime Minister of New Zealand, had to say about this sordid affair when he said in question time in the New Zealand parliament yesterday:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">These are serious issues—to interfere in another country's politics—and it appears there have been significant misjudgments by the member's fellow Opposition party—</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">a reference to the Australian Labor Party.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">I also accept what the Leader of the Opposition in New South Wales, Ms Jacinda Ardern, had to say when she said:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>  Senator Hinch, a point of order?</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="2O4" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Hinch:</span>
                  </a>  Ms Ardern is not the Premier of New South Wales. She's the Labour leader in New Zealand.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>  That is a debating point, Senator Hinch. Attorney-General, you have the call.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="008W7" type="MemberContinuation">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator BRANDIS:</span>
                  </a>   So Jacinda Ardern, the leader of the New Zealand Labour Party said that, when she saw reference made to the New Zealand Labor Party, she immediately sought to clarify what those connections were.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">I learnt that one of my members of parliament had asked two questions that related to issues around citizenship. Mr Hipkins should never have asked those questions – I have made that absolutely clear to him, and he acknowledges he shouldn't have asked them.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Ms Ardern went on to say:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">My hope in this is to have been absolutely clear and transparent with those involved around our level of knowledge, the level of involvement and to be clear again that regardless of whether or not we knew the basis on which those questions were being asked, they should never have been asked.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span style="font-style:italic;">(Time expired)</span>
                </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>  Senator Gallagher, a supplementary question.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
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                <page.no>42</page.no>
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            </talk.text>
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          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>42</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Hinch, Sen Derryn</name>
                <name.id>2O4</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party>DHJP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
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            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
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          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>42</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">PRESIDENT, The</name>
                <name.id>10000</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
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            </talk.text>
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          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>42</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Brandis, Sen George</name>
                <name.id>008W7</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>42</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">PRESIDENT, The</name>
                <name.id>10000</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
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            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </answer>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>42</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Gallagher, Sen Katy</name>
              <name.id>ING</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="ING" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator GALLAGHER</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Australian Capital Territory</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Manager of Opposition Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:03</span>):  Yesterday, the Minister for Foreign Affairs, Ms Julie Bishop, said in relation to Minister Dunne's statement:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">I don't accept that.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Has Minister Bishop told the New Zealand government that she considers one of their ministers a liar?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>43</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Brandis, Sen George</name>
              <name.id>008W7</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>LP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="008W7" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator BRANDIS</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Attorney-General, Vice-President of the Executive Council and Leader of the Government in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:03</span>):  Given that that's not what she said, Senator Gallagher—once again putting words in Ms Bishop's mouth that she never uttered. I dare say that the Labor Party—we saw Senator Wong this morning being caught out and exposed by her colleague, Mr Albanese, on this matter. So you wonder why I don't accept anything that is attributed to others by those who sit behind Senator Wong. Senator Wong said this morning that at no time was the issue of Mr Joyce's identity raised. Mr Albanese, meanwhile, within an hour of Senator Wong's interview had this to say: </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">What happened was that Penny Wong's staffer who used to be chief of staff to a New Zealand MP has mates in New Zealand and was talking to one of the people he knows in New Zealand and the issue of, funnily enough, citizenship of Barnaby Joyce came up …</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>  Senator Gallagher, a final supplementary question.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span class="HPS-GeneralIInterjecting">Opposition senators interjecting</span>—</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>  Order on my left! You have a colleague on her feet wishing to ask a question.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>43</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">PRESIDENT, The</name>
                <name.id>10000</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>43</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">PRESIDENT, The</name>
                <name.id>10000</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </answer>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>43</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Gallagher, Sen Katy</name>
              <name.id>ING</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="ING" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator GALLAGHER</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Australian Capital Territory</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Manager of Opposition Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:04</span>):  Thank you for your defence. Minister, are Minister Bishop's claims of a conspiracy just as credible as her claims that she wasn't aware that her chief of staff participated in secret meetings to topple the Prime Minister?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>43</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Brandis, Sen George</name>
              <name.id>008W7</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>LP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="008W7" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator BRANDIS</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Attorney-General, Vice-President of the Executive Council and Leader of the Government in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:05</span>):  I don't know why it is you choose to ask these asinine questions, Senator Gallagher. I thought you were a bit smarter than that. The fact is that there was, as Mr Albanese conceded this morning on Adelaide radio, an attempt—a conspiracy—between Senator Wong's chief of staff and a member of the New Zealand Labour Party to try to bring down Mr Joyce. There was. Mr Albanese has admitted it, although Senator Wong lied about it. How can it be that Senator Wong, knowing what she knew, could have made the speech she made in this chamber at about 3 pm yesterday afternoon? When this issue was squarely raised, Senator Wong addressed the chamber for five minutes and not once did she reveal what she well knew: that this was orchestrated from her office by her chief of staff, and now she's been caught. <span style="font-style:italic;">(Time expired)</span></span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </answer>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>DISTINGUISHED VISITORS</title>
        <page.no>43</page.no>
        <type>DISTINGUISHED VISITORS</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <debate.text>
        <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
          <p class="HPS-Debate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Debate">DISTINGUISHED VISITORS</span>
          </p>
        </body>
      </debate.text>
      <speech>
        <talk.start>
          <talker>
            <page.no>43</page.no>
            <time.stamp />
            <name role="metadata">PRESIDENT, The</name>
            <name.id>10000</name.id>
            <electorate />
            <party />
            <in.gov />
            <first.speech />
          </talker>
        </talk.start>
        <talk.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Normal">
                <a href="e5v" type="OfficeSpeech">
                  <span class="HPS-OfficeSpeech">The PRESIDENT</span>
                </a> (<span class="HPS-Time">14:06</span>):  I advise honourable senators of the presence in the chamber today of the parliamentary delegation from Uruguay led by Mr Jose Carlos Mahia, Speaker of the House of Representatives. On behalf of all senators, I wish the delegation a very warm welcome to Australia and, in particular, to the Senate. With the concurrence of honourable senators, I invite the Speaker to take a seat on the floor of the Senate.</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Normal">
                <span class="HPS-GeneralInterjecting">Honourable senators:</span>  Hear, hear!</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Normal">
                <span style="font-style:italic;" />
                <span style="font-style:italic;">Mr </span>
                <span style="font-style:italic;">Mahia </span>
                <span style="font-style:italic;">was seated accordingly.</span>
              </span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </talk.text>
      </speech>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE</title>
        <page.no>43</page.no>
        <type>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <debate.text>
        <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
          <p class="HPS-Debate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Debate">QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE</span>
          </p>
        </body>
      </debate.text>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Global Security</title>
          <page.no>43</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Global Security</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>43</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Bushby, Sen David</name>
              <name.id>HLL</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>LP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="HLL" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator BUSHBY</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Tasmania</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Chief Government Whip in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:07</span>):  My question is to the Attorney-General, Senator Brandis. Can the Attorney-General update the Senate on the terrorism threat in our region and in particular on the recent activities of Islamic State affiliated groups in Marawi in the southern Philippines?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>43</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Brandis, Sen George</name>
              <name.id>008W7</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>LP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="008W7" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator BRANDIS</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Attorney-General, Vice-President of the Executive Council and Leader of the Government in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:07</span>):  I am disappointed that there was laughter from the Labor Party. The government actually takes the threat of terrorism seriously, particularly a few weeks after we foiled an attempt to bring down an aircraft that would have killed hundreds of Australians.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">The advice from our agencies is that more than 750 South-East Asian foreign fighters are currently fighting with or otherwise engaged with terrorist groups in Syria and Iraq. That includes around 110 Australians. Over the past three years this government has enacted comprehensive laws to discourage Australians from fighting in overseas conflicts. While we expect only a very small number of Australian foreign fighters will seek to return home, we anticipate a far greater number of experienced terrorist fighters from former ISIL-controlled territories in Syria and Iraq will return to the wider South-East Asian region.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">The recent developments in the southern Philippines—in particular the current conflict between Philippine security forces and ISIL-aligned militants in the city of Marawi in Mindanao—have only increased those concerns. ISIL has exploited the fighting in Marawi as a call to arms. Foreign fighters from Indonesia and the Middle East are reported to have been active in Marawi fighting against Philippines security forces. Only last week, ISIL released a propaganda video of Australian-accented extremist Abu Adam al-Australi urging fighters to join the conflict in Mindanao.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">We are supporting the Philippines military in Marawi by supplying two P-3 Orion aircraft for surveillance assistance. The government is also providing humanitarian assistance, building capacity among our partners and supporting an enhanced counterterrorism legal framework in our region. The Australian government will continue, with our regional partners, to assist the Philippines to confront this challenge.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>  Senator Bushby, a supplementary question.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>44</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">PRESIDENT, The</name>
                <name.id>10000</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </answer>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>44</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Bushby, Sen David</name>
              <name.id>HLL</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>LP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="HLL" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator BUSHBY</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Tasmania</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Chief Government Whip in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:09</span>):  Can the Attorney-General advise what the government is doing to respond to this emerging threat in the southern Philippines?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>44</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Brandis, Sen George</name>
              <name.id>008W7</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>LP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="008W7" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator BRANDIS</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Attorney-General, Vice-President of the Executive Council and Leader of the Government in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:09</span>):  In addition to the legislative measures that I described earlier on, Senator Bushby, with which you're well familiar, I can advise the Senate that today I signed a recommendation for approval by His Excellency the Governor-General to list Islamic State East Asia as a proscribed terrorist organisation under division 102 of the Criminal Code. Listing Islamic State East Asia will ensure that the terrorist organisation offence provisions of the Criminal Code will apply to conduct in relation to that organisation.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Islamic State East Asia publicly pledged its allegiance to Islamic State in December 2015. Its primary objective is the establishment of an Islamic state under sharia law in the Philippines. Islamic State East Asia is responsible for numerous terrorist events in the Philippines, including the beheading of Christian hostages in Marawi City in June, the bombing of a market in Davao City in September 2016 and an attack against the Marawi prison— <span style="font-style:italic;">(Time expired)</span></span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>  Senator Bushby, a final supplementary question.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>44</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">PRESIDENT, The</name>
                <name.id>10000</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </answer>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>44</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Bushby, Sen David</name>
              <name.id>HLL</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>LP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="HLL" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator BUSHBY</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Tasmania</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Chief Government Whip in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:10</span>):  How has the Attorney-General been working with our international partners to ensure both national and regional security?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>44</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Brandis, Sen George</name>
              <name.id>008W7</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>LP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="008W7" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator BRANDIS</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Attorney-General, Vice-President of the Executive Council and Leader of the Government in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:10</span>):  Thank you, Senator Bushby. I can advise you that on 29 July this year I co-hosted with my Indonesian counterpart, the Coordinating Minister for Political, Legal and Security Affairs, Minister Wiranto, the first Sub-Regional Meeting on Foreign Terrorist Fighters and Cross-Border Terrorism, in Manado, in Indonesia. This meeting was attended by ministerial-level representatives from Australia, Indonesia, the Philippines, Malaysia, New Zealand and Brunei and focused on the threat posed to our region by terrorist fighters from foreign conflict zones and also, more particularly, on the regional implications of the current conflict in Marawi.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">The meeting achieved a number of tangible outcomes to strengthen our domestic and collective responses to terrorism, including establishing a Foreign Terrorist Fighters Strategic Forum to enhance information-sharing and priority alignment among agencies and convening an ISIL dialogue for law enforcement agencies. <span style="font-style:italic;">(Time expired)</span></span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </answer>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Deputy Prime Minister</title>
          <page.no>44</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Deputy Prime Minister</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>44</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Farrell, Sen Don</name>
              <name.id>I0N</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="I0N" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator FARRELL</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:11</span>):  My question is to the Minister representing the Deputy Prime Minister, Senator Nash. On 30 July, the Deputy Prime Minister said: 'I'm not a New Zealander. I'm only too happy for anybody to go out and clarify that.' Given that we now know that the Deputy Prime Minister was, in fact, a citizen of New Zealand, why didn't he clarify his own status when he invited others to do so?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>44</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Nash, Sen Fiona</name>
              <name.id>e5g</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>Nats</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="e5g" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator NASH</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Deputy Leader of The Nationals, Minister for Regional Development, Minister for Local Government and Territories and Minister for Regional Communications</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:12</span>):  The senator would be aware that this is a matter that is now in front of the High Court. The Deputy Prime Minister has made a statement regarding this issue, and I would refer the senator to that statement.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span class="HPS-MemberIInterjecting">Senator Sterle interjecting</span>—</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>  Senator Sterle, you have a colleague wanting to ask a question.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>44</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">PRESIDENT, The</name>
                <name.id>10000</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </answer>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>44</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Farrell, Sen Don</name>
              <name.id>I0N</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="I0N" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator FARRELL</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:13</span>):  Mr President, I have a supplementary question. Fairfax report that, the week before the Deputy Prime Minister finally came clean about his New Zealand citizenship, they were told by his office: 'We've had all these questions before, but there's nothing to see here. The NZ authorities have told us we don't have a problem. Barnaby established that many years ago.' When did the Deputy Prime Minister's office first contact the New Zealand authorities?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>45</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Nash, Sen Fiona</name>
              <name.id>e5g</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>Nats</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="e5g" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator NASH</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Deputy Leader of The Nationals, Minister for Regional Development, Minister for Local Government and Territories and Minister for Regional Communications</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:13</span>):  I'm not going to comment on media reporting, and I refer the senator to my previous answer.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>  Senator Farrell, a final supplementary question.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>45</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">PRESIDENT, The</name>
                <name.id>10000</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </answer>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>45</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Farrell, Sen Don</name>
              <name.id>I0N</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="I0N" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator FARRELL</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:13</span>):  Given that the Deputy Prime Minister could have clarified his New Zealand citizenship by using a four-question online test, isn't it clear that the Deputy Prime Minister was trying to conceal the fact that he was a New Zealand citizen?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>45</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Nash, Sen Fiona</name>
              <name.id>e5g</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>Nats</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="e5g" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator NASH</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Deputy Leader of The Nationals, Minister for Regional Development, Minister for Local Government and Territories and Minister for Regional Communications</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:14</span>):  Clarity will be determined by the High Court, and I refer the senator to my previous answers.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </answer>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Qualifications of Members</title>
          <page.no>45</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
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            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Qualifications of Members</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>45</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Di Natale, Sen Richard</name>
              <name.id>53369</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>AG</party>
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              <first.speech />
            </talker>
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              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="53369" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator DI NATALE</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Victoria</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Leader of the Australian Greens</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:14</span>):  My question is for the Attorney-General. There are reports today that the government plans to move ahead and unilaterally refer opposition MPs to the Court of Disputed Returns. To quote the Attorney-General from his speech last week:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">I caution the Senate that it is a very dangerous course for this chamber or any parliamentary chamber to decide on what might be a party-line vote in the absence of clear evidence that a member of this chamber is not eligible to be here.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Attorney, what is your clear evidence or what has changed since you gave your speech last week?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>45</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Brandis, Sen George</name>
              <name.id>008W7</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>LP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="008W7" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator BRANDIS</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Attorney-General, Vice-President of the Executive Council and Leader of the Government in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:15</span>):  Senator Di Natale, it's a good question. Let me address it. I think the principle that I referred to last week is a good principle. It is a good principle. Senator Di Natale, your former colleagues, Scott Ludlam and Larissa Waters, did the right thing. They may have resigned prematurely, but they certainly did the right thing in freely and without any pressure disclosing that they felt that they had a constitutional issue with section 44, just as Senator Canavan, Mr Joyce and Senator Roberts did the right thing by freely disclosing that they felt that they may have a constitutional problem under section 44.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Now, it's certainly the government's view, based on Solicitor-General advice, that Senator Canavan and Mr Joyce are likely to be found by the High Court not to be disqualified in these circumstances by section 44.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>  Order! A point of order, Senator Di Natale?</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="53369" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Di Natale:</span>
                  </a>  Point of order on relevance. I made it very clear in my question that the Attorney-General either needed to provide evidence or indicate what has changed since he made his speech last week. I draw your attention to the question.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>  Thank you, Senator Di Natale. I will remind the Attorney-General of the question.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="008W7" type="MemberContinuation">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator BRANDIS:</span>
                  </a>  Senator Di Natale, I have already told you that that remains my view. Nevertheless, it does depend, for it to operate, on a level of integrity by members of parliament—integrity that was, let me acknowledge, shown by Scott Ludlam and Larissa Waters, and integrity that was shown by Mr Joyce, Senator Canavan and Senator Roberts.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">What we don't have is the same level of integrity shown by members of the Australian Labor Party. Two days ago, the Prime Minister wrote to Mr Shorten and invited him to nominate any members of the Australian Labor Party about whom he had a level of concern, and Mr Shorten wrote straight back to the Prime Minister and indicated that he wasn't interested in participating in that process. Where there are levels of concern— <span style="font-style:italic;">(Time expired)</span></span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>  Senator Di Natale, a supplementary question?</span>
              </p>
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                <page.no>45</page.no>
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                <name role="metadata">Di Natale, Sen Richard</name>
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                <page.no>45</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Brandis, Sen George</name>
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                <party>LP</party>
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                <page.no>45</page.no>
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          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>45</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Di Natale, Sen Richard</name>
              <name.id>53369</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>AG</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
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          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="53369" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator DI NATALE</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Victoria</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Leader of the Australian Greens</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:17</span>):  In that same speech, the Attorney-General said:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">… those who assert against a senator that they were not capable of being chosen because of a prohibition or ground of disqualification under section 44 must demonstrate why it is they claim that the senator or member of the House of Representatives is disqualified.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Attorney, I ask you right now to make it very clear: what is the evidence upon which your referrals are based?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>45</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Brandis, Sen George</name>
              <name.id>008W7</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>LP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="008W7" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator BRANDIS</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Attorney-General, Vice-President of the Executive Council and Leader of the Government in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:18</span>):  Senator Di Natale, I adhere to what I said last week. I think that is a good principle if it's capable of operating, but it does depend on the integrity of members of parliament in making good-faith attempts to remove and clarify doubts about their eligibility. At the moment, there are no reference motions before either chamber other than the ones that have been dealt with, unless there is something being done in the House of Representatives of which I'm unaware. I'm not aware of any reference motions that have been moved against any members of the Australian Labor Party.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">I would repeat that where there have been concerns raised about eligibility—it seems to me, for example, that in the case of Ms Justine Keay, the member for Braddon, the facts are very little different from the facts of Senator Malcolm Roberts—it does depend upon that member showing the integrity and respect for this institution to come forward.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>  Senator Di Natale, a final supplementary question?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>46</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">PRESIDENT, The</name>
                <name.id>10000</name.id>
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          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>46</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Di Natale, Sen Richard</name>
              <name.id>53369</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>AG</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
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              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="53369" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator DI NATALE</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Victoria</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Leader of the Australian Greens</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:19</span>):  Given that the principles the Attorney-General outlined in his previous speech don't seem to hold water and are now being jettisoned at the altar of political opportunity, why won't the government resolve this once and for all and support the Greens and crossbench motion for a comprehensive audit of all members of parliament, so this issue can be settled and the uncertainty resolved?</span>
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            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>46</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Brandis, Sen George</name>
              <name.id>008W7</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>LP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="008W7" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator BRANDIS</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Attorney-General, Vice-President of the Executive Council and Leader of the Government in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:20</span>):  Senator Di Natale, I agree with you that the uncertainty absolutely ought to be resolved. Might I point out, with respect, that what you are suggesting is a compulsory process, yet in the same breath you are criticising the government for, as you imagine—though I think you're factually wrong—proposing a motion subjecting some Labor members to a compulsory process. The fact is, Senator Di Natale—</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="53369" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Di Natale:</span>
                  </a>  You're a hypocrite!</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>  Order! Point of order, Senator Williams?</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="I0V" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Williams:</span>
                  </a>  Senator Di Natale just called the Attorney-General a hypocrite. I ask you to ask him to withdraw that.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>  Senator Di Natale, I didn't hear that, but if there was any unparliamentary language I'd expect you to withdraw.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span class="HPS-MemberIInterjecting">Senator Di Natale interjecting</span>—</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="G0D" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Bernardi:</span>
                  </a>  Point of order, Mr President: we all heard it. Senator Di Natale is simply refusing to obey the will of the chair. He called Senator Brandis a hypocrite. If you truly pretend to uphold standards in this place you should stand up and withdraw, Senator Di Natale.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>  Again, Senator Di Natale, I give you the opportunity to withdraw any comment that you may have made that was unparliamentary.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="53369" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Di Natale:</span>
                  </a>  I don't believe it was unparliamentary. It was factual.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span> Senator Di Natale, I didn't hear the comment. Two senators have indicated you made a comment. If that was the case, that you did make that comment, I would ask that you do withdraw that.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="53369" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Di Natale:</span>
                  </a>  Mr President, given that you've asked me so nicely to withdraw, I'm prepared to withdraw. Senator Brandis is indeed not a hypocrite; he is guilty of hypocrisy.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>  Thank you, Senator Di Natale; you should be withdrawing unconditionally.</span>
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              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="008W7" type="MemberContinuation">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator BRANDIS:</span>
                  </a>  That's all right, Mr President. I've on occasions accused the Greens of hypocrisy, and I've certainly today accused Senator Wong of hypocrisy, so I can let you get away with that, Senator Di Natale.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">It does depend upon all elements of the parliament—government, crossbench and opposition—displaying integrity. The government has displayed integrity on this. Nobody forced Mr Joyce to out himself in the way he did. Nobody forced Senator Canavan to out himself in the way he did. Nobody forced Senator Waters or Senator Ludlam to out themselves in the way they did. There is one element of this chamber that is not displaying integrity, and that is the opposition. <span style="font-style:italic;">(Time expired)</span></span>
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              <talker>
                <page.no>46</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Bernardi, Sen Cory</name>
                <name.id>G0D</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party>AC</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>46</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">PRESIDENT, The</name>
                <name.id>10000</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>46</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Di Natale, Sen Richard</name>
                <name.id>53369</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party>AG</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>46</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">PRESIDENT, The</name>
                <name.id>10000</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>46</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Di Natale, Sen Richard</name>
                <name.id>53369</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party>AG</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>46</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">PRESIDENT, The</name>
                <name.id>10000</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>46</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Brandis, Sen George</name>
                <name.id>008W7</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </continue>
        </answer>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Trade Unions</title>
          <page.no>46</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Trade Unions</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>46</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Reynolds, Sen Linda</name>
              <name.id>250216</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>LP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="250216" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator REYNOLDS</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Western Australia</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:22</span>):  My question is to the Minister for Employment, Senator Cash. I refer the minister to her answer in question time yesterday, and I ask the minister: can she further update the Senate on recent reports regarding payments from registered organisations to activist groups?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>46</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Cash, Sen Michaelia</name>
              <name.id>I0M</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>LP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="I0M" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator CASH</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Western Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister Assisting the Prime Minister for the Public Service, Minister for Employment and Minister for Women</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:22</span>):  I thank Senator Reynolds for her question. Despite being asked every day this week to produce the relevant documentation confirming whether the $100,000 donation from the AWU to GetUp! was made in accordance with the AWU's rules, Mr Shorten continues to remain silent. This is of course despite the fact that at the time the donation was made he was the National Secretary of the AWU and a board member of GetUp!. The AWU has confirmed that the donation was made, but that is it. It too has failed to provide any evidence that this $100,000 donation was properly authorised in accordance with the union's rules.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">The evidence should not be difficult to disclose, as all unions are required to keep these documents by law. The lack of response to date is clearly not acceptable. Either the donation was properly authorised in accordance with the union's rules or the AWU under Mr Shorten had terrible problems with record keeping and governance. Mr Shorten has been given ample opportunity to provide an explanation as to his and the AWU's failure to provide the relevant documents, which begs the question: do they in fact exist? Given the failure to provide the relevant documentation to show that the $100,000 donation from the AWU to GetUp! was properly authorised, the matter has been referred to the Registered Organisations Commission. There are serious questions that remain to be answered. Was the donation authorised under the rules? If so, where are the records?</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>  Senator Reynolds, a supplementary question.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>47</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">PRESIDENT, The</name>
                <name.id>10000</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </answer>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>47</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Reynolds, Sen Linda</name>
              <name.id>250216</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>LP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="250216" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator REYNOLDS</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Western Australia</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:24</span>):  Can the minister also explain to the Senate why it is important that registered organisations are transparent to their members—</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span class="HPS-GeneralIInterjecting">Opposition senators interjecting</span>—</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>  Order on my left! Senator Reynolds, you have the call.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="250216" type="MemberContinuation">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator REYNOLDS:</span>
                  </a>  I'll start again. Can the minister please explain why it is important that registered organisations are transparent to their members about donations to activist groups?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>47</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">PRESIDENT, The</name>
                <name.id>10000</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>47</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Reynolds, Sen Linda</name>
                <name.id>250216</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </continue>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>47</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Cash, Sen Michaelia</name>
              <name.id>I0M</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>LP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="I0M" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator CASH</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Western Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister Assisting the Prime Minister for the Public Service, Minister for Employment and Minister for Women</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:25</span>):  It is because members of registered organisations deserve to know that the registered organisation is acting in their best interests. Let's look at the best interests of AWU members and GetUp! and what they campaign for. Those interests could not be more separate. GetUp! actively campaigns for the imposition of carbon taxes. The AWU, on the other hand, allegedly represents manufacturing workers whose industries require low-cost electricity. GetUp! campaigns actively against coalmining. AWU members work in the coal industry and the steel industry, which does require coal. GetUp! campaigns actively against gas exploration. AWU members work in the gas industry. There is a clear theme here. The one union whose members would suffer more than anything from the implementation of GetUp!'s agenda is the AWU.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>  Senator Reynolds, a final supplementary question.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>47</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">PRESIDENT, The</name>
                <name.id>10000</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </answer>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>47</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Reynolds, Sen Linda</name>
              <name.id>250216</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>LP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="250216" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator REYNOLDS</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Western Australia</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:26</span>):  Can the minister also advise if she's concerned that these donations may not be in the best interest of members of registered organisations?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>47</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Cash, Sen Michaelia</name>
              <name.id>I0M</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>LP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="I0M" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator CASH</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Western Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister Assisting the Prime Minister for the Public Service, Minister for Employment and Minister for Women</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:26</span>):  We should all be concerned when registered organisations do not properly represent the interests of their workers. Mr Shorten was claiming to represent the interests of AWU workers but, at the same time, he was giving money to an outfit that wants to actively campaign to destroy their jobs. These interests could not be more disparate. The AWU, as I said, represents workers allegedly in disparate sectors. In these sectors, there are workers who produce aluminium or who work in oil refineries, in oil treatment plants, in the steel industry or in the gas industry, and workers involved in the exploration of hydrocarbons. All of these workers' jobs, thousands and thousands of them, are directly put at risk by the campaigns of GetUp!, yet Mr Shorten proudly supports, with a $100,000 donation, an organisation that actively works against his own members. <span style="font-style:italic;">(Time expired)</span></span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </answer>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Defence Procurement</title>
          <page.no>47</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Defence Procurement</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>47</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Xenophon, Sen Nick</name>
              <name.id>8IV</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>NXT</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="8IV" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator XENOPHON</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:27</span>):  My question is to Minister Payne, representing the Minister for Defence Industry, in relation to Australia's naval shipbuilding program. Can the minister confirm the future frigate program tender explicitly prevents the two sovereign and established Australian shipbuilders, ASC and Austal, from taking any management or supervisory role—in other words, acting as a prime contractor—for the Navy's $35 billion future frigate program? For this nationally significant defence project, is it the case that only a foreign company can take the lead and that it will be a foreign company that controls the program, a foreign company that will install its own management teams in Adelaide, a foreign company that will choose the workforce, a foreign company that will control the intellectual property and a foreign company that will determine the shipyard's strategic direction—for example, whether there'll be future exports to other countries?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>47</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Payne, Sen Marise</name>
              <name.id>M56</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>LP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="M56" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator PAYNE</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for Defence</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:28</span>):  I thank Senator Xenophon for his question. Given that the future frigate program is currently the subject of an active tender process, the government and I will not comment on matters that might affect that process. And, on that matter, I do observe that it is at best most unfortunate that sensitive tender information has been released today through the media and, as I understand it, on Senator Xenophon's website. It does not help during an active tender process to do that. It undermines it and places the tender at risk of being delayed or worse. What I can confirm to Senator Xenophon is that what the government has set up is a process that will establish an Australian sovereign continuous naval shipbuilding capability, a capability that will provide what our Navy needs to keep our nation safe and secure, a capability that will secure thousands of jobs for decades to come, many of them—if not primarily the majority of them—in the state of South Australia, which Senator Xenophon represents, but also across the nation through supply chains and through supporting industry.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Our priority remains the acquisition of regionally superior, anti-submarine-warfare-optimised future frigates, along with the capability for sovereignty over their operation and sustainment. Intrinsic to that is the government's objective to maximise Australian industry involvement in the program without compromising on the capability, cost or schedule for the future frigates. This was a principal consideration in the decision to build in Adelaide, South Australia, noting that nationwide industrial involvement will be essential to the successful delivery of this major program. Everything the government has done since we made the decision to build the future frigates in Adelaide has been about creating a sovereign industrial base to deliver us the capability we need, along with the thousands of jobs that go with it. <span style="font-style:italic;">(Time expired)</span></span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>  Senator Xenophon, a supplementary question.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>48</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">PRESIDENT, The</name>
                <name.id>10000</name.id>
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        </answer>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>48</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Xenophon, Sen Nick</name>
              <name.id>8IV</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>NXT</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
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          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
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                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="8IV" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator XENOPHON</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:30</span>):  I note that the document was an unclassified document. In a 20 June 2017 hearing of the Senate Economics References Committee's inquiry on the future of naval shipbuilding, it was revealed that Defence knew, and had known for some time, that ASC would have no substantive role in the Future Submarine program. We now hear that ASC will have no substantive role in the future frigate program. Noting that I actively sought the future frigate plan from Defence through FOI and was denied access on very dubious grounds, and it is an unanswered question on notice that is overdue, when is the government intending to inform the parliament of the shrinkage and possible shut-down of ASC?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>48</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Payne, Sen Marise</name>
              <name.id>M56</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>LP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="M56" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator PAYNE</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for Defence</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:31</span>):  I am not going to again comment on an FOI decision that was made by the Department of Defence, and you should not and would not expect me to, Senator Xenophon. But I can very clearly assure the Senate that the future frigates will be built in Adelaide, with Australian workers and with Australian steel, and we will create a sovereign, continuous naval shipbuilding industry. The Adelaide shipbuilding workforce in Osborne is already undertaking vitally important work. They have built up extensive experience and skills in the build of the air warfare destroyer, and I congratulate each and every one of them on what they do and continue to do on the AWD program. They will be very keen indeed to know of our commitment to a continuous naval shipbuilding capability based in Adelaide—indeed, as the naval shipbuilding plan sets out, as the Defence white paper plan sets out, as the request for tender sets out, as our infrastructure upgrade shows, as our purchase of Techport shows and as our development of the naval shipbuilding shows: all in Adelaide. The evidence stands there. <span style="font-style:italic;">(Time expired)</span></span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>  Senator Xenophon, a final supplementary question.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
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          <interjection>
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                <page.no>48</page.no>
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                <name role="metadata">PRESIDENT, The</name>
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        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>48</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Xenophon, Sen Nick</name>
              <name.id>8IV</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>NXT</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
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            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="8IV" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator XENOPHON</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:32</span>):  Does the minister acknowledge the demoralising effect that this completely unnecessary and strategically questionable news will have on the workforce of ASC, the impact it will have on the team spirit built up with the successful AWD program, and the impact it will have on workers as a result of their future employment uncertainty, in terms of their terms and conditions, as they contemplate working for a foreign company that takes away the control of the project from a local shipbuilder?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>48</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Payne, Sen Marise</name>
              <name.id>M56</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>LP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="M56" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator PAYNE</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for Defence</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:32</span>):  The only person undermining the workforce in South Australia and undermining their confidence is you, Senator Xenophon. You are the one who is talking this down, nobody else—although Dougie and his mates would have a good go if they wanted to.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>  Order, Minister. Two things: you must address senators by their correct title, and please address your remarks to me, not directly to Senator Xenophon.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="M56" type="MemberContinuation">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator PAYNE:</span>
                  </a>  Senator Doug Cameron, Senator Kim Carr and you, Senator Xenophon, are the few people in Australia who are actually talking this proposition down—talking down a $90 billion spend in naval shipbuilding in this country to address the gap that those opposite created by doing nothing for the entire term of their time in government. Not one ship commissioned—not one! Zero. Nada. Everybody can understand that, even the Scotsman in the room—not one. This government will have a continuous naval shipbuilding industry supported by South Australian workers. Every single South Australian shipbuilder who has breath in their body will be part of this process—</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>  Order! A point of order, Senator Cameron?</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="AI6" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Cameron:</span>
                  </a>  I was pointed out by the minister: 'even the Scotsman in the room'. I'm an Australian!</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>  Order! There is no point of order, Senator Cameron.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
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          <interjection>
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                <page.no>48</page.no>
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                <name role="metadata">PRESIDENT, The</name>
                <name.id>10000</name.id>
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            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>48</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Payne, Sen Marise</name>
                <name.id>M56</name.id>
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                <party>LP</party>
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                <page.no>48</page.no>
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                <name role="metadata">PRESIDENT, The</name>
                <name.id>10000</name.id>
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          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>48</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Cameron, Sen Doug</name>
                <name.id>AI6</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party>ALP</party>
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                <page.no>48</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">PRESIDENT, The</name>
                <name.id>10000</name.id>
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        </answer>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Competition Policy</title>
          <page.no>49</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Competition Policy</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>49</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Williams, Sen John</name>
              <name.id>I0V</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>Nats</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="I0V" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator WILLIAMS</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Nationals Whip in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:34</span>):  We'd never know, Mr President, would we! My question is to the Minister for Regional Development, Senator Nash. Can the minister update the Senate on how the coalition government's reforms to misuse of market power laws will create a fairer and more competitive marketplace for regional small businesses, farmers and families?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>49</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Nash, Sen Fiona</name>
              <name.id>e5g</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>Nats</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="e5g" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator NASH</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Deputy Leader of The Nationals, Minister for Regional Development, Minister for Local Government and Territories and Minister for Regional Communications</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:34</span>):  I thank Senator Williams for the question and acknowledge his long involvement on not only this issue but all issues affecting small businesses across the country. I'm delighted to stand up in the Senate today to welcome the effects test legislation, which passed in this place yesterday. Fixing section 46 of the Competition and Consumer Act has been a core mission for the coalition government in addressing a longstanding weakness in our competition laws. I am proud to say that this coalition has now delivered. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">What this reform means is that our competition regulator, the ACCC, now has the powers it needs—and, in fact, told us it needed—to crack down on conduct by large companies that is likely to kill small businesses and ultimately lead to less competition. These laws are a win for consumers, small businesses and our farmers. There is simply no other way to look at it. Think of the bakery in Ballarat, the newsagent in Narromine or the small grocer in Geraldton and how they will now be protected from conduct that could threaten their viability and ultimately reduce competition for consumers in those communities. And we know how important it is to those small businesses. Not only was this important reform recommended by the Harper review; the coalition took these issues to the last election, where we sought a mandate from the Australian people. I am proud to say that we have fulfilled that promise. After all, we are a government that means what it says and does what it means.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>  Senator Williams, a supplementary question.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>49</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">PRESIDENT, The</name>
                <name.id>10000</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
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        </answer>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>49</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Williams, Sen John</name>
              <name.id>I0V</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>Nats</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="I0V" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator WILLIAMS</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Nationals Whip in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:36</span>):  How true, Minister. Can the minister advise whether these important reforms have been welcomed by stakeholders and explain why it is so important that we support small business and farmers? </span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>49</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Nash, Sen Fiona</name>
              <name.id>e5g</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>Nats</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="e5g" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator NASH</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Deputy Leader of The Nationals, Minister for Regional Development, Minister for Local Government and Territories and Minister for Regional Communications</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:36</span>):  These changes are about standing up for those people who have the guts to invest in and start up their own business and protecting them from being bullied and driven out of business by large competitors. These reforms are absolutely critical not just for our regional small businesses but in particular for our farmers. This coalition government is going to continue to support our farmers. We know that our farmers remain at the mercy of Australia's supermarket duopoly and face constant pressure, year in, year out, to accept the prices they're offered, simply because of the market power and how concentrated it is. Interestingly, the National Farmers' Federation has welcomed the effects test, describing it as a watershed moment and saying it will help level the playing field for small businesses, including farm businesses. This is what standing up for the little guy looks like—and perhaps those opposite might try it some time.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>  Senator Williams, a final supplementary question.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
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          <interjection>
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                <page.no>49</page.no>
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                <name role="metadata">PRESIDENT, The</name>
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        </answer>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>49</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Williams, Sen John</name>
              <name.id>I0V</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>Nats</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
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              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="I0V" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator WILLIAMS</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Nationals Whip in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:37</span>):  I thank the minister for the good news. Is the minister aware of any alternative approaches that would allow big corporations to continue misusing their market power? </span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>49</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Nash, Sen Fiona</name>
              <name.id>e5g</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>Nats</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="e5g" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator NASH</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Deputy Leader of The Nationals, Minister for Regional Development, Minister for Local Government and Territories and Minister for Regional Communications</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:37</span>):  I am. And I think it is astounding that despite the overwhelming support of virtually every respected organisation, commentator and even the regulator itself—not to mention the huge win this represents for Australian farmers and small businesses—the Labor Party doesn't support this legislation. It would be extraordinary to think what blue-collar workers and unions think of Labor being in the pocket of big business. I notice they've all gone very quiet over there. Labor has failed to stand up for Australia's 3.2 million small businesses, including 540,000 based in our regions. They have turned their back on Australia's 134,000 farm businesses. While Labor's loyalty remains 100 per cent behind dodgy unions who stitch up dodgy deals for their workers, we on this side of the chamber are committed to protecting small businesses and standing up for farmers and we're going to make sure they get a fair go. </span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </answer>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Health Care</title>
          <page.no>49</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Health Care</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>49</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Leyonhjelm, Sen David</name>
              <name.id>111206</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>LDP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="111206" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator LEYONHJELM</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:38</span>):  My question is to Senator Nash, representing the Minister for Health. The Australian Institute of Health and Welfare reports that, for the first time in over two decades, the daily smoking rate did not significantly decline over the most recent three-year period, from 2013 to 2016. This is the first three-year period during which plain packaging has been in force throughout. Over this period, tobacco excise rose by more than 50 per cent. Yet in the same period smoking has fallen significantly in numerous countries, including the US and the UK, where there has been no plain packaging and excise is much lower but e-cigarette have been legal. Given the evidence, will the government abandon plain packaging and amend its poisoned standard to treat e-cigarettes like cigarettes? Or do we in Australia know better than the rest of the world?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>50</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Nash, Sen Fiona</name>
              <name.id>e5g</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>Nats</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="e5g" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator NASH</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Deputy Leader of The Nationals, Minister for Regional Development, Minister for Local Government and Territories and Minister for Regional Communications</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:39</span>):  I thank the senator for his question and for some advance notice of it. Tobacco remains a leading cause of preventable death and disability in Australia, with smoking estimated to kill almost 19,000 Australians a year and with a total annual cost to the nation of $31½ billion. This government remains committed to tobacco plain packaging as a legitimate public health measure that is consistent with Australia's international legal obligations. Such a measure has contributed to reducing the smoking rates substantially over the past decade. Despite a slowing in the decline in smoking prevalence rates—</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>  A point of order, Senator Leyonhjelm?</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="111206" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Leyonhjelm:</span>
                  </a>  Yes, Mr President, a point of order just in relation to accuracy. I just quoted some data which contradicts what the minister has just said.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>  That is a debating point, Senator Leyonhjelm; it's not a point of order.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="e5g" type="MemberContinuation">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator NASH:</span>
                  </a>  I am referring to advice received. Despite a slowing in the decline in smoking prevalence rates among daily smokers aged 14 years and over, progress has been made amongst Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people, which is good to note. Ongoing tobacco interventions are critical to ensuring that the prevalence of smoking in Australia continues to decline.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">The government's taking a precautionary approach to e-cigarettes and is continuing to examine the regulatory framework governing e-cigarettes in Australia. Unlike any e-cigarette product, all smoking cessation therapy products lawfully available for commercial sale in Australia have been evaluated for safety and efficacy and have been registered with the Therapeutic Goods Administration. Though the TGA found that there was insufficient evidence to support the widespread use of e-cigarettes for smoking cessation or harm reduction, the government has funded eight grants and committed nearly $6½ million in funding for research into e-cigarettes.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Further to this, I understand that the senator currently has an inquiry into the matter, which is due to report on 13 September. I look forward to hearing the outcome of that inquiry.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>  Senator Leyonhjelm, a supplementary question.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
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                <page.no>50</page.no>
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              </talker>
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            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>50</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Leyonhjelm, Sen David</name>
                <name.id>111206</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party>LDP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
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            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>50</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">PRESIDENT, The</name>
                <name.id>10000</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
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            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>50</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Nash, Sen Fiona</name>
                <name.id>e5g</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party>Nats</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>50</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">PRESIDENT, The</name>
                <name.id>10000</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
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            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </answer>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>50</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Leyonhjelm, Sen David</name>
              <name.id>111206</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>LDP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="111206" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator LEYONHJELM</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:41</span>):  Government officials have been arrested in connection with a tobacco-smuggling ring, at a time when the excise on cigarettes is 61c a stick. Minister, can you recall reports of tobacco smuggling a decade ago, when the excise was 23c a stick? In a fortnight, you're lifting the excise to 70c. Will this lead to more or less tobacco smuggling?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>50</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Nash, Sen Fiona</name>
              <name.id>e5g</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>Nats</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="e5g" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator NASH</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Deputy Leader of The Nationals, Minister for Regional Development, Minister for Local Government and Territories and Minister for Regional Communications</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:42</span>):  I can advise the Senate that the government provided $7.7 million in the 2016-17 budget to expand the Tobacco Strike Team and will introduce strengthened offences for illicit tobacco. The Tobacco Strike Team works to disrupt and dismantle criminal groups engaged in the supply of illicit tobacco to Australia. The government's confident that the Tobacco Strike Team's work is having an impact on the illicit market, based on the significant operational success, particularly in terms of seizures. I should add, however, that there is no reliable evidence that increases in excise on tobacco products have influenced the illicit tobacco market in Australia.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>  A final supplementary question, Senator Leyonhjelm.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>50</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">PRESIDENT, The</name>
                <name.id>10000</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </answer>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>50</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Leyonhjelm, Sen David</name>
              <name.id>111206</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>LDP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="111206" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator LEYONHJELM</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:43</span>):  I understand that, following the Russian military incursions into Ukraine in 2014, our health department argued that Australia's response should be restrained, given Ukraine's WTO case against Australia's plain packaging laws. Can you confirm this? Did our government link plain packaging with other foreign affairs matters in discussions with the Ukrainian government prior to Ukraine dropping their case in 2015?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>50</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Nash, Sen Fiona</name>
              <name.id>e5g</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>Nats</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="e5g" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator NASH</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Deputy Leader of The Nationals, Minister for Regional Development, Minister for Local Government and Territories and Minister for Regional Communications</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:43</span>):  Australia has firmly and consistently supported the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Ukraine, and our support has not been linked to other issues, including the WTO plain packaging dispute.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </answer>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Turnbull Government</title>
          <page.no>51</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Turnbull Government</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>51</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Cameron, Sen Doug</name>
              <name.id>AI6</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="AI6" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator CAMERON</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:43</span>):  My question is to the Minister representing the Minister for Foreign Affairs, Senator Brandis. The Editor-At-Large of <span style="font-style:italic;">The Australian</span> newspaper, Paul Kelly, has labelled yesterday's performance by the Minister for Foreign Affairs:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">… a bad situation for the government made to look even worse as well as absurd. The Turnbull government sank into panic conceived in apparent desperation.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">When will the government stop resorting to desperate and absurd tactics to cover up the chaos caused by its own ineptitude?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>51</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Brandis, Sen George</name>
              <name.id>008W7</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>LP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="008W7" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator BRANDIS</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Attorney-General, Vice-President of the Executive Council and Leader of the Government in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:44</span>):  Senator Cameron, you asked me to comment on some commentary by a commentator. I won't be doing that. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>  Senator Cameron, a supplementary question.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>51</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">PRESIDENT, The</name>
                <name.id>10000</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </answer>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>51</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Cameron, Sen Doug</name>
              <name.id>AI6</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="AI6" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator CAMERON</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:44</span>):  Mark Kenny of <span style="font-style:italic;">The Sydney Morning Herald</span> has observed:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">Monday was bad, but Tuesday was a disaster—a fact written on the shell-shocked faces of government members of parliament …</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">When will the government focus on the challenges being faced by working- and middle-class Australians instead of creating disasters to distract?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>51</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Brandis, Sen George</name>
              <name.id>008W7</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>LP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="008W7" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator BRANDIS</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Attorney-General, Vice-President of the Executive Council and Leader of the Government in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:45</span>):  Senator Cameron, I do rate Paul Kelly as a commentator. I must say I can't say the same thing about Mark Kenny. I think the only commentary worth reading in the Fairfax papers this morning is my own op-ed article on the hypocrisy of Senator Wong's position on same-sex marriage.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>  Senator Cameron, a final supplementary question.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>51</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">PRESIDENT, The</name>
                <name.id>10000</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </answer>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>51</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Cameron, Sen Doug</name>
              <name.id>AI6</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="AI6" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator CAMERON</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:45</span>):  Dennis Shanahan observed:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">The Coalition response to the Barnaby Joyce New Zealand citizenship brouhaha is a disaster.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Isn't Mr Shanahan correct when he says:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">Julie Bishop has thrown petrol on the flames and damaged our closest relationship.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>51</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Brandis, Sen George</name>
              <name.id>008W7</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>LP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="008W7" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator BRANDIS</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Attorney-General, Vice-President of the Executive Council and Leader of the Government in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:46</span>):  I certainly don't agree with that, Senator Cameron. I have high regard for Dennis Shanahan, who I rate as a journalist and a commentator and who I regard as somebody who more often than not gets it right. But he did not on this occasion, because what is disclosed is the fact that Senator Wong and Senator Wong's office were engaged in a conspiracy with the New Zealand Labour Party to bring down the Deputy Prime Minister of Australia. As I said yesterday and repeat again today, by all means have your fights here in Australia, but don't go to the back doors, sneaking around the New Zealand parliament and using a foreign party to try to make political points in Australia. Mr Albanese exposed Senator Wong's lies in his interview with 5AA this morning, and I commend to you his transcript. <span style="font-style:italic;">(Time expired)</span></span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </answer>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Defence Procurement</title>
          <page.no>51</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Defence Procurement</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>51</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">McKenzie, Sen Bridget</name>
              <name.id>207825</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>Nats</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="207825" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator McKENZIE</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Victoria</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:47</span>):  My question is to the Minister for Defence, Senator Payne. Can the minister update the Senate on how the government's investment in Defence's pilot-training system will help develop the next generation of ADF pilots?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>51</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Payne, Sen Marise</name>
              <name.id>M56</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>LP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="M56" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator PAYNE</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for Defence</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:47</span>):  I thank Senator McKenzie for her question because we are investing as a government over $1.5 billion in a new pilot-training system to ensure that our next generation of pilots has access to the most contemporary training methods and equipment. At the centre of that investment is the new Pilatus PC-21 training aircraft, which will replace the PC-9, which has been serving us very well since 1987. On Friday I had the privilege, with the Chief of Air Force and the member for Gippsland, our colleague Minister Chester in the other place, to welcome the first six PC-21 aircraft into RAAF Base East Sale. In total we will have 49 of the aircraft, and 42 of those will be allocated to pilot training at RAAF Base East Sale and at RAAF Base Pearce in Western Australia.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">The PC-21 is only one part of a comprehensive new training system that will enable us to train more people faster and to a higher standard than our current program. The Air Force is acquiring seven PC-21 simulators, five of those to be based at East Sale and two at Pearce, and I can attest to the very impressive nature of those simulators, having experienced it on Friday myself. This is a capability which will enable us to have synthetic training of undergraduate pilots for the first time in the RAAF. The training system will produce multiskilled aircrew who are able to operate all our current and our future platforms, from our fighter aircraft to our C-17 transporters and everything in between. It's a very important investment—an investment in the long-term future of our ADF aviators. It is the skill and the professionalism of those men and women that is our greatest asset and, if we can support it with this capability, we should.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>  A supplementary question, Senator McKenzie?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>52</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">PRESIDENT, The</name>
                <name.id>10000</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </answer>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>52</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">McKenzie, Sen Bridget</name>
              <name.id>207825</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>Nats</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="207825" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator McKENZIE</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Victoria</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:49</span>):  Can the Minister advise how the investment in pilot training will benefit the local community around RAAF Base East Sale?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>52</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Payne, Sen Marise</name>
              <name.id>M56</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>LP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="M56" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator PAYNE</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for Defence</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:49</span>):  I certainly can. It's a great question from a senator for regional Victoria. In Gippsland, as I said on Friday, it was fabulous to welcome the first PC-21 aircraft with Minister Chester. This will establish the base as a training hub for Air Force. It will deliver long-term benefits for the ADF, but it's also a very significant investment for the local region. The relocation of the ADF's Basic Flying Training School provides a significant economic boost for the region and includes $200 million worth of investment in new facilities at East Sale itself. That will include new maintenance and training facilities and student accommodation to support the new pilot training system. It is fair to say that the student accommodation was in need of a timely upgrade. We anticipate that $17 million to $19 million will be injected into the East Sale region per year, which will create around 90 ongoing jobs. It is an important investment for regional Victoria and regional Australia.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>  A final supplementary question, Senator McKenzie?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>52</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">PRESIDENT, The</name>
                <name.id>10000</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </answer>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>52</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">McKenzie, Sen Bridget</name>
              <name.id>207825</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>Nats</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="207825" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator McKENZIE</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Victoria</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:50</span>):  They are very welcomed jobs in that community. Can the minister outline to the Senate how else the government is creating a more potent, agile and capable Royal Australian Air Force?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>52</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Payne, Sen Marise</name>
              <name.id>M56</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>LP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="M56" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator PAYNE</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for Defence</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:51</span>):  Senator McKenzie is using the words from the defence white paper. We are definitely committed to creating a cutting-edge fifth generation Air Force. We have particularly seen this take shape over the past year, which has been a truly historic period for the introduction of new capabilities. We have seen, in the last 12 months, the arrival of the first two Joint Strike Fighters at the Avalon air show in Victoria earlier this year. We have accepted all 12 of the EA-18G Growler aircraft into services, which gives us a dedicated electronic attack capability for the first time, and our fleet of the P-8A Poseidon maritime patrol aircraft continue to enter service. In June the sixth of our C-27J Spartan battlefield air lifters arrived and that achieved an initial operating capability in December of last year. With all of that new capability coming online, particularly the fifth generation aircraft, it is a very exciting time and there are great opportunities for trainee pilots in the ADF. I encourage as many as are interested to join. <span style="font-style:italic;">(Time expired)</span><span style="font-style:italic;">.</span></span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </answer>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Deputy Prime Minister</title>
          <page.no>52</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Deputy Prime Minister</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>52</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Wong, Sen Penny</name>
              <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="00AOU" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator WONG</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Leader of the Opposition in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:52</span>):  My question is to Senator Brandis, the minister representing the foreign affairs minister. After claiming the discovery of Deputy Prime Minister Joyce's New Zealand citizenship was a conspiracy, the Minister for Foreign Affairs said yesterday that she would find it, 'very difficult to build trust with a future New Zealand Labor government'. Given the minister has also said she does not accept the statements of conservative New Zealand minister Peter Dunne, can she confirm she would find it difficult to build a relationship with a New Zealand government of either political persuasion?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>52</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Brandis, Sen George</name>
              <name.id>008W7</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>LP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="008W7" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator BRANDIS</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Attorney-General, Vice-President of the Executive Council and Leader of the Government in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:52</span>):  Senator Wong, I think, if I may say so, that Ms Bishop has been one of Australia's outstanding Ministers for Foreign Affairs. That is a fact, which, by the way—in a rare glimpse of personal grace—you yourself came close to acknowledging yesterday when you said Ms Bishop has been, I think your words were, 'a credible and effective Minister for Foreign Affairs'. And, indeed, she has been. I can assure you, Senator Wong, that Australia's relationship with one of our oldest and closest friends, New Zealand, will be entirely unaffected by any change of government in New Zealand. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">The conduct of the public diplomacy in Australia by the Minister for Foreign Affairs over the last four years has been exemplary—and it will continue to be exemplary. The only person and the only political party that has caused embarrassment to the government of New Zealand, Senator Wong, is you and your party, by seeking to inveigle the New Zealand parliament into a domestic Australian political dispute. This is what, might I remind you, the Prime Minister of New Zealand himself, Bill English, had to say in question time in the New Zealand parliament yesterday:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">These are serious issues, to interfere in another country's politics and it appears there's been significant misjudgement by the member's fellow opposition party.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">He was referring to the Australian Labor Party, Senator Wong. That is the party that the Prime Minister of New Zealand was accusing of interfering in another country's politics. And, Senator Wong, Mr Bill English is right.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion" />
                  <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>  Senator Wong, a supplementary question.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>53</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">PRESIDENT, The</name>
                <name.id>10000</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </answer>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>53</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Wong, Sen Penny</name>
              <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="00AOU" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator WONG</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Leader of the Opposition in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:54</span>):  Was it the Foreign minister's decision to use her role as Australia's foreign minister for domestic political purposes, or was she asked to risk our relationship with New Zealand by someone else? </span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>53</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Brandis, Sen George</name>
              <name.id>008W7</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>LP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="008W7" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator BRANDIS</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Attorney-General, Vice-President of the Executive Council and Leader of the Government in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:55</span>):  Senator Wong, with respect, if you ask a question like that you are really losing touch with reality. You really are. As if! And you of all people—the person who aspires to be the foreign minister of Australia yourself—think that the relationship between Australia and New Zealand is at risk! How absurd! Of course it's not at risk, and it's absurd of you to say so. You should be embarrassed. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">However, the New Zealand government has been embarrassed by the adventures of your chief of staff, as both the Prime Minister of New Zealand, Mr Bill English, and the Leader of the New Zealand Labour Party, Ms Jacinda Ardern, have said in the past 24 hours. But you, Senator Wong, are the person who should hang your head in shame.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>  Senator Wong, a final supplementary question.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>53</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">PRESIDENT, The</name>
                <name.id>10000</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </answer>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>53</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Wong, Sen Penny</name>
              <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="00AOU" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator WONG</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Leader of the Opposition in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:56</span>):  How can this government now seek to defend the credibility of the office of foreign minister when she herself has politicised Australia's diplomatic relationship with New Zealand in the interests of distracting from a Turnbull government in utter chaos? </span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>53</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Brandis, Sen George</name>
              <name.id>008W7</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>LP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="008W7" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator BRANDIS</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Attorney-General, Vice-President of the Executive Council and Leader of the Government in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:56</span>):  What an extraordinary question! It wasn't Ms Bishop's chief of staff who rang up a member of the New Zealand parliament and put him up to asking a question in the New Zealand parliament to try to influence Australian domestic politics. It wasn't Ms Bishop's chief of staff, Senator Wong; it was your chief of staff. You know that he did the wrong thing, because you said in your doorstop this morning that your chief of staff should not have done that and that you have spoken to him. So there's even been a grudging admission from you that your chief of staff did the wrong thing and that your office did the wrong thing. We have both the Prime Minister of New Zealand and the New Zealand opposition leader saying it was the wrong thing, and you now come into this chamber and seek to defend it. How ridiculous you are! <span style="font-style:italic;">(Time expired)</span></span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </answer>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Broadband</title>
          <page.no>53</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Broadband</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>53</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Smith, Sen Dean</name>
              <name.id>241710</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>LP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="241710" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator SMITH</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Western Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Deputy Government Whip in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:57</span>):  My question is to the Minister for Communications, Senator Fifield. Can the minister update the Senate on another successful year on the rollout of the National Broadband Network?</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span style="font-weight:bold;" />
                  <span class="HPS-GeneralIInterjecting">Opposition senators interjecting</span>
                  <span style="font-weight:bold;">—</span>
                </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span style="font-weight:bold;" />
                  <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>  Order on my left!</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>53</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">PRESIDENT, The</name>
                <name.id>10000</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>53</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Fifield, Sen Mitch</name>
              <name.id>D2I</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>LP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="D2I" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator FIFIELD</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Victoria</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Manager of Government Business in the Senate, Minister for Communications and Minister for the Arts</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:58</span>):  I thank Senator Smith for his question, and I'm glad those opposite share in our delight at the progress of the rollout of the NBN. As I think all colleagues in this place would appreciate, the NBN is becoming a reality, and can I on behalf of myself and my fellow shareholder minister, Senator Cormann, congratulate NBN on another strong year of performance. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">The annual results announced yesterday show that the company has an achievable plan to complete the network by 2020. That's six to eight years sooner than would have been the case under those opposite, and at $30 billion less cost. The good news is that now one in every two Australian homes and businesses can access the NBN. At the end of the financial year, I can report that there were 5.7 million premises ready for service compared with the corporate plan target of 5.4 million premises. Similarly, activations were 440,000 premises ahead of target. There are now close to 2.7 million homes and businesses connected to the network, with around 40,000 premises signing up to NBN based plans each and every week. That's fast, affordable broadband to many, many premises around Australia.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">The benefits of the NBN aren't just online. The project now has 24,000 workers designing, building and switching on services across the nation. There's more work underway at 1,850 discrete work sites, and around 200,000 additional premises are gaining access to the NBN each and every month. This is a big contrast to what we inherited from those opposite where only 51,000 people could access the network when they left office. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>  Senator Smith, a supplementary question.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>53</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">PRESIDENT, The</name>
                <name.id>10000</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </answer>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>54</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Smith, Sen Dean</name>
              <name.id>241710</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>LP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="241710" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator SMITH</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Western Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Deputy Government Whip in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">15:00</span>):  Can the minister outline how the coalition's multitechnology mix has helped to increase rollout speed and keep internet broadband plans affordable for consumers? </span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>54</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Fifield, Sen Mitch</name>
              <name.id>D2I</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>LP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="D2I" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator FIFIELD (</span>
                  </a>
                  <span class="HPS-Electorate">Victoria</span>
                  <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">—</span>
                  <span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Manager of Government Business in the Senate, Minister for Communications and Minister for the Arts</span>
                  <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">) (</span>
                  <span class="HPS-Time">15:00</span>
                  <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">):</span>  I can. The coalition's multitechnology mix puts aside the tech theologians. What it does is it puts the business experts in control. Goals that were set several years ago, including the goal of offering NBN connections to half of all Australians by 2017, have been achieved. In just the last 10 months, more premises have been hooked up to the NBN than in the entire six years of the project from the first connection in 2010-16. With capital costs much lower under the multitechnology mix and as the revenue streams climb—by the sheer weight of connected users—the NBN is well placed to continue to discount its prices as usage patterns change and households demand faster internet speeds that are now available. This is good news.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>  Senator Smith, a final supplementary question. </span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>54</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">PRESIDENT, The</name>
                <name.id>10000</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </answer>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>54</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Smith, Sen Dean</name>
              <name.id>241710</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>LP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="241710" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator SMITH</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Western Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Deputy Government Whip in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">15:01</span>):  Is the minister aware of any alternative approaches and what impact these might have on broadband affordability? </span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>54</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Fifield, Sen Mitch</name>
              <name.id>D2I</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>LP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span style="font-style:italic;" />
                  <a href="D2I" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator FIFIELD</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Victoria</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Manager of Government Business in the Senate, Minister for Communications and Minister for the Arts</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">15:01</span>):  Unfortunately, I am aware of alternative approaches. Those opposite do continue to advocate for an inflexible and unaffordable fibre-at-any-cost approach to the rollout. Under the Australian Labor Party's approach, Australians would not only have been left waiting an extra six to eight years for better broadband but also they would have been saddled with the most unaffordable broadband plans anywhere in the world. Under one scenario, Labor's all-fibre rollout would have driven up average internet bills by more than $500 a year. Affordability was never a consideration for the Labor Party in the rollout, whether it was the affordability of the rollout or the affordability of plans for end users. If Labor had continued in office, there is no doubt that this would have been another case of unaffordable bills— <span style="font-style:italic;">(Time expired)</span></span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="008W7" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Brandis:</span>
                  </a>  I ask that further questions be placed on the <span style="font-style:italic;">Notice Paper</span><span style="font-style:italic;">.</span></span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>54</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Brandis, Sen George</name>
                <name.id>008W7</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </answer>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE: ADDITIONAL ANSWERS</title>
        <page.no>54</page.no>
        <type>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE: ADDITIONAL ANSWERS</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <debate.text>
        <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
          <p class="HPS-Debate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Debate">QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE: ADDITIONAL ANSWERS</span>
          </p>
        </body>
      </debate.text>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Murray-Darling Basin</title>
          <page.no>54</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Murray-Darling Basin</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>54</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Brandis, Sen George</name>
              <name.id>008W7</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>LP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="008W7" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator BRANDIS</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Attorney-General, Vice-President of the Executive Council and Leader of the Government in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">15:02</span>):  Can I provide some further information in response to a question asked by Senator Gallagher yesterday, on the question of the Murray-Darling Basin and allegations aired on the ABC's <span style="font-style:italic;">Four Corners</span> program on 24 July 2017. The Australian government takes very seriously the allegations aired in the <span style="font-style:italic;">Four Corners</span> program and supports the vast majority of the irrigated agriculture industry that follows the rules. On 30 July 2017, the Prime Minister and the Deputy Prime Minister—</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT:</span>  Senator Cameron, on a point of order? Senator Brandis, resume your seat please.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="AI6" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Cameron:</span>
                  </a>  I'm not sure if the Attorney's mic is turned on. I can't hear a word of what he's saying.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT:</span>  I think you may have been right. Attorney, do you wish to start again? Please make sure the mic is on.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="008W7" type="MemberContinuation">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator BRANDIS:</span>
                  </a>  I can provide further information in response to a question asked of me yesterday by Senator Gallagher on the Murray-Darling Basin, and allegations aired on the ABC's <span style="font-style:italic;">Four Corners</span> program on 24 July 2017. The Australian government takes very seriously the allegations aired in the <span style="font-style:italic;">Four Corners</span> program, and supports the vast majority of the irrigated agriculture industry follows the rules. On 30 July 2017, the Prime Minister, the Deputy Prime Minister and the Assistant Minister for Agriculture and Water Resources announced that the Murray-Darling Basin Authority would conduct an independent basin-wide review into compliance with state based regulations governing water use. The government also looks forward to reviewing the outcomes of the independent investigation being carried out by Ken Matthews AO with the assistance of expert investigators who have experience in police and ICAC investigations.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">The Deputy Prime Minister has indicated at all times that he takes the allegations of water theft very seriously. These are allegations that obviously need to be investigated. The Murray-Darling Basin Authority will undertake an independent basin-wide review into compliance with state based regulations governing water use. I thank the chamber.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>54</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">DEPUTY PRESIDENT, The</name>
                <name.id>10000</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>54</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Cameron, Sen Doug</name>
                <name.id>AI6</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>54</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">DEPUTY PRESIDENT, The</name>
                <name.id>10000</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>54</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Brandis, Sen George</name>
                <name.id>008W7</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </continue>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE: TAKE NOTE OF ANSWERS</title>
        <page.no>54</page.no>
        <type>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE: TAKE NOTE OF ANSWERS</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <debate.text>
        <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
          <p class="HPS-Debate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Debate">QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE: TAKE NOTE OF ANSWERS</span>
          </p>
        </body>
      </debate.text>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Deputy Prime Minister</title>
          <page.no>54</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Deputy Prime Minister</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>54</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Cameron, Sen Doug</name>
              <name.id>AI6</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="AI6" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CAMERON</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">15:05</span>):  I move:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">That the Senate take note of the answer given by Senator Brandis to a question without notice asked by Senator Gallagher relating to the Deputy Prime Minister.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">I move this motion on the basis that that was one of the most enjoyable question times I've had in this place for years! To watch the senators on the other side bury their heads, time after time, when Senator Brandis was on his feet was absolutely delicious! This is one of the worst days that this government could have had. I will quote Paul Kelly, <span style="font-style:italic;">The Australian</span>'s editor-at-large, which is something I wouldn't normally do. Paul Kelly says:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">Whether or not Joyce is found ineligible, the government’s standing will be diminished and its vulnerability paraded. It proves yet again that Labor is structurally superior on politics— it outsmarts, outmuscles and out-thinks the government on almost every issue.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">Luck runs Labor’s way but that is no accident.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Who would have thought that Paul Kelly would expose the weaknesses in this rabble of a government, this government that can do nothing right, this government that is so consumed by its internal disputes and its will to survive. Who would have thought that such an eminent commentator from the right wing of politics would stand and say that this government is in such a mess. He goes on to say:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">How long before the Prime Minister will address the political weakness at the heart of his government, a weakness obvious to the entire world? As if to prove its ineptitude the government’s tactical response yesterday—accusing Bill Shorten of seeking to seize office by a conspiracy with a foreign power (New Zealand, of course, who else?)—was gobsmacking.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">So here we have one of the most senior commentators in politics in this country saying that the government's response yesterday was absolutely gobsmacking.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">And then there is Mark Kenny. Senator Brandis was quite disparaging about Mark Kenny. Well, Mark Kenny has been around a long time and he certainly can see a problem when it's there. He says:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">Government is no business to be in if you're not very good at politics, nor up for the fight.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Not only is Mark Kenny saying you are a hopeless lot, a rabble of a government, he's saying you're not even up for the fight!</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">This is the most inept government I have ever seen. You have one of the weakest prime ministers this country has ever seen. You've got an Attorney-General who tries to bluff and bluster his way out of every problem that is before this parliament; it's no wonder that you bury your heads in your hands every question time. This was a fantastic question time, because it just demonstrated how out of touch the coalition is and how this coalition is consumed by issues that are not important to the rest of the country.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">This is a government that cannot understand that ordinary working families and people on social security benefits are battling in this country. All they want to do is run arguments between each other and demonstrate that they are not fit to be a government in this country. The Prime Minister should resolve the chaos in the coalition. The Prime Minister should show a little bit of courage, call an election and let the public have their say on what is the worst government this country has ever seen. <span style="font-style:italic;">(Time expired)</span></span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>55</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Paterson, Sen James</name>
              <name.id>144138</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>LP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="144138" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator PATERSON</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Victoria</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">15:10</span>):  Senator Cameron needs to get out more. If that was an exciting question time, can I recommend he develop some hobbies, some activities outside politics, because if he was excited by that I do worry a little bit about him.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Let's put some facts on the table. The opposition leader in New Zealand, Jacinda Ardern, has said that what happened here was inappropriate. Even Senator Wong in her contribution to the debate earlier today acknowledged that what her chief of staff had done was wrong and inappropriate. Yet there are some ALP senators, Senator Cameron among them, who have sought to defend the conduct of the opposition, Senator Wong and her chief of staff in this affair. I agree with Senator Fifield's observations this morning in the debate. It was a very interesting contribution from Senator Wong. It was perhaps the most low-key contribution I've seen her make in the parliament in the 18 months I've been here. It was very carefully worded, unlike some of the contributions of her colleagues on this question. One might wonder why that would be the case. She chose her words very carefully, and that was probably advisable.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">But the best defence that those opposite have been able to mount so far has been the so-called Fairfax defence: yes, what Senator Wong's chief of staff is alleged to have done is wrong, and, yes, what the New Zealand member of parliament then did with that was also wrong, but it's not a problem, because Fairfax Media was also asking these questions at the same time. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span class="HPS-MemberIInterjecting">Senator Cameron interjecting</span>—</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="144138" type="MemberContinuation">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator PATERSON:</span>
                  </a>  Whether Fairfax was asking questions at the same time or not is not relevant. Either it was right for Senator Wong's chief of staff to involve himself in this affair in this way or it was wrong. Fairfax Media has a very different role from that of the chief of staff to the shadow foreign affairs minister, who should behave in a very different way.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="AI6" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Cameron:</span>
                  </a>  Paul Kelly said that you're gob-smacking!</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="144138" type="MemberContinuation">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator PATERSON:</span>
                  </a>  Senator Cameron, as much as I enjoy your interjections, throughout your meandering speech I listened in silence, and I would ask respectfully that you return the courtesy. The questions are these: 'What did Senator Wong know? When did she know it? What has she done about it?' These are questions she has not yet answered. When did she find out her chief of staff was involved? What did she find out about her chief of staff's involvement? What has she since done about it? Has he been disciplined? Has he been counselled? Will he be sacked? If Senator Wong regards his conduct as problematic, then we should expect to hear an announcement from Senator Wong about what she has done about it. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Imagine those opposite saying it's perfectly fine to collude with a foreign political party to bring down an Australian member of parliament, an Australian minister and perhaps even an Australian government. Imagine, as an analogy, that the shoe was on the other foot. Imagine that the coalition was colluding with, for example, the Republican Party in the United States to remove from office a Labor MP, to remove from office a Labor minister and to remove from power a Labor government. Can you imagine how hysterical the reaction would be from those opposite and their friends and allies in the media? Can you imagine how hysterical the left in Australia would be if the Liberal Party colluded with, let's say, the Republican Party in the United States to try and unseat a Labor MP? We can very easily predict how much they would lose their minds.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">The truth is that Senator Canavan and Mr Joyce have acted entirely appropriately and honourably in this affair. When they became aware of their potential dual citizenship status they asked for their cases to be referred to the High Court, and it will be up to the High Court to rule appropriately on their cases. They've done the right and honourable thing. Let's wait and see what the High Court's judgement will be in that case.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">I think some in this debate have leapt to premature conclusions about Senator Canavan and Senator Joyce, and also about section 44 and its appropriateness in this day and age. They have condemned it before the trial has even taken place. I would encourage them to wait, and to watch and to listen to what the High Court says before they cast their judgement about section 44. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Personally, I am very happy to defend the principle that only Australian citizens should be able to serve in the Australian parliament, and that it is not appropriate for foreign citizens to be elected to the Australian parliament and to make decisions for the Australian people—to vote on laws, to act as ministers and to be part of a government. I think that is a principle which is entirely reasonable, entirely fair and entirely worth defending. I look forward to watching very closely what the High Court decides, before any further judgements are made about this issue. </span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>55</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Paterson, Sen James</name>
                <name.id>144138</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>56</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Cameron, Sen Doug</name>
                <name.id>AI6</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
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          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>56</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Paterson, Sen James</name>
                <name.id>144138</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </continue>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>56</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Dastyari, Sen Sam</name>
              <name.id>225099</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="225099" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator DASTYARI</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Deputy Opposition Whip in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">15:15</span>):  In the scheme of stunts for distractions, this one really takes the cake. I mean, the second this government come under any kind of pressure, they completely drop the ball; they just go a little bit crazy. What has happened now to the great party of Menzies? What has happened to the great party of Australian conservativism? This great party—which I've disagreed with on many things—was a party of principle. It was a party of government. It was a party that was able to do things in government, even though I may have not agreed with them all the time. This is now entering Venezuelan politics. That's where we're heading to now: Venezuelan politics. It has gone from the party of Menzies to the party of Maduro. I know you find that hard to hear and you're walking out. I understand you can't hear this, Senator Paterson. I understand it's too hard for you. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Let's just go through what they've done in the past week. They're saying now that they're planning to unilaterally start sending members of parliament—they are releasing lists of their enemies—to the High Court for investigation. These are people who have no case to answer, people who have proven their citizenship. This is a reverse onus of proof. They are using the numbers they have in the lower house to randomly start sending people for investigation. This is Venezuelan politics. They're starting to criminalise the actions of their opponents. It has been one attack on the trade union movement after another. The only thing the rabble of a mob that make up the government of Australia can agree on is that they hate workers' rights and conditions and the trade union movement.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Every couple of months, they dig themselves out of their own internal fight, their own internal brawl, and stick their heads up just so they can have another slag at the trade union movement. It's so obscenely crazy—the claims they're making about the leader of another political party, Mr Bill Shorten from the other House. When you turn around and start talking about actions that people made a decade or so ago—and we're suddenly going to start criminalising them just to take this path so we can damage our political opponents. It's Venezuelan politics. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">And then, to distract from the disaster of where the foreign minister took things yesterday, to come into this chamber and try and attack the credibility of Senator Penny Wong! That's not only crazy; that's stupid. Who takes on Penny? I mean, some of us have been in Labor politics our entire lives and we think we're pretty tough; we think we're pretty strong. But I wouldn't take on Penny Wong. No-one here would take on Penny Wong. And, when Senator Brandis takes on Penny Wong, he loses the vote. He is running a Venezuelan-style government but he doesn't even have the numbers to do it properly. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Then we decide we need a foreign enemy: New Zealand! New Zealand is this evil foreign opponent that we all have to rally against together. Senator Hinch, who was once—and is no longer—a New Zealander, doesn't look that scary. He doesn't look that tough. This is an attack on your former people, Senator Hinch, and you should not stand for this. It is bad enough that the New Zealanders think they're better than us at sport, but now it appears there is an entire conspiracy across the ditch to try and bring down the Australian government. Let's be clear what they're really saying. How dare Barnaby Joyce's dual citizenship be exposed!</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">How dare that come to light! Who do these people think they are! Don't they know their place! </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">These people have suffered enough. They're New Zealanders. It's hard enough being a New Zealander, being the butt of every Australian joke that goes around. It's tough enough being a New Zealander and living there. I understand that a lot of New Zealanders regret the decision they made not to be part of Australia, and they have to live with the bad choice they made over a century ago. But the reality is that this is a desperate, pathetic, hopeless government that has nothing left. It can run any distraction it wants, but it's going to get it nowhere. <span style="font-style:italic;">(Time expired)</span></span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>57</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Fierravanti-Wells, Sen Concetta</name>
              <name.id>e4t</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>LP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="e4t" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator FIERRAVANTI-WELLS</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for International Development and the Pacific</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">15:20</span>):  It's always entertaining watching Senator Dastyari. I have to say, if anybody was ever doing Venezuelan vaudeville, you did it very well today. But can I just start on the comments that the New Zealand Minister of Foreign Affairs, Gerry Brownlee, made in response to the Minister for Foreign Affairs, Ms Bishop. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span class="HPS-MemberIInterjecting">Senator Dastyari interjecting</span>—</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="e4t" type="MemberContinuation">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator FIERRAVANTI-WELLS:</span>
                  </a>  I know you are very exercised about that, Senator Dastyari, so let me tell you what the Foreign Minister of New Zealand actually said about this: 'It's a perfectly reasonable reaction, given the fact that a New Zealand member of parliament from the New Zealand Labour Party, under the influence from the Australian Labor Party, was asking questions clearly designed to remove a government supporter in Australia—that's the bigger problem here.' That was the reaction of the New Zealand government. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">In the middle of an election campaign in New Zealand, engaging in this sort of action is totally and utterly reprehensible. The New Zealand Labour leader, Jacinda Ardern, has revealed that Bill Shorten and the Labor Party sought to use the New Zealand parliament to undermine our government. This is highly unethical, at the very least. More importantly, it puts at risk the very important relationship between our two countries. It shows that the Leader of the Opposition is willing to interfere in the political system of a foreign country for base political advantage. It shows you don't have any interest in section 44 of the Constitution—the uncertainty that surely raises questions about your own people. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span class="HPS-MemberIInterjecting">Senator Cameron interjecting</span>—</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="e4t" type="MemberContinuation">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator FIERRAVANTI-WELLS:</span>
                  </a>  I bet, Senator Cameron, you've got people on your side of the fence that are just sitting there, fingers crossed, anxiously watching what's happening in the High Court and hoping and praying that they're not going to be exposed. Don't tell me that you don't have people in your own ranks who are sitting there—</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT:</span>  Senator Fierravanti-Wells, I remind you to address your comments to the chair.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="e4t" type="MemberContinuation">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator FIERRAVANTI-WELLS:</span>
                  </a>  Madam Deputy President, don't tell me that they don't have people across there who are sitting there, fingers crossed, hoping that they're not going to get caught in this whole saga. But let's return to Senator Wong. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Senator Wong aspires to be the Foreign Minister of this country, but she has some serious explaining to do. It is unprecedented to use the officers of a foreign power to undermine a properly elected government. I remind Senator Wong that the Turnbull government was properly elected, and there are some questions that she has to answer. When did your chief of staff first discuss this matter with his labour counterparts in the New Zealand Labour Party? Did he seek your approval to make this contact? What was his purpose in making the contact? When did he tell you he had done this? What was the content of the conversation with Mr Hipkins? Did your chief of staff report that conversation back to you? Did your chief of staff help formulate the question that was asked in the New Zealand parliament? When did you first know that this was to be raised in the New Zealand parliament? </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Senator Wong, you can't just adopt the Sergeant Schultz defence, 'I know nothing', which is precisely what she came in here to allege to this Senate. Are you seriously telling us that you had no idea about the actions of your chief of staff? Your closest and most trusted adviser contacts a sitting Labour member of the New Zealand parliament, and you, the shadow minister for foreign affairs, have absolutely no idea about it!</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Let me remind you, Senator Wong, that politics is about perception. I can tell you that the perception out there is that you are not being truthful with the Australian public.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Both the New Zealand government and the New Zealand Labour Party have condemned what has transpired. The New Zealand Labour Party have admitted that it was wrong; it was unacceptable; it should never have happened. If they can judge what was wrong, unacceptable and should never have happened, why didn't Senator Wong take on the same judgement? The New Zealand government has been embarrassed by this, and the conduct of New Zealand Labour has been called into question. We find that the Australian Labor Party, through Senator Wong, has been put up to it. Can Senator Wong explain how using a foreign government's parliament to undermine the Deputy Prime Minister of our country is merely 'unwise'? <span style="font-style:italic;">(Time expired)</span></span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>57</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Fierravanti-Wells, Sen Concetta</name>
                <name.id>e4t</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
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            </talk.text>
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            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>57</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Fierravanti-Wells, Sen Concetta</name>
                <name.id>e4t</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
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            </talk.text>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>57</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">DEPUTY PRESIDENT, The</name>
                <name.id>10000</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
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            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>57</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Fierravanti-Wells, Sen Concetta</name>
                <name.id>e4t</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </continue>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>58</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">McAllister, Sen Jenny</name>
              <name.id>121628</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="121628" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator McALLISTER</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Deputy Opposition Whip in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">15:25</span>):  The British futurist and writer Alan Moore said:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">The main thing that I learned about conspiracy theory, is that conspiracy theorists believe in a conspiracy because that is more comforting. The truth of the world is that it is actually chaotic.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">The truth of this government, of course, is that it is utterly chaotic. It may be comforting, in the delusional state that they've got themselves into, for their tactics team to believe that there is a conspiracy out there to undermine the government and destabilise the government, but, sadly, that doesn't align with reality. The reality is that their government has been destabilised by one very, very simple fact: the Deputy Prime Minister, until very recently it seems, was a New Zealand citizen. It's actually very embarrassing. I understand why their political leadership is desperately looking for an alternative narrative, a story other than, 'Whoops, we made a mistake,' because their backbench are deeply embarrassed by the performance of their frontbench at today's question time and more generally out there in the world.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">I watched their backbench today. I watched them as Senator Brandis provided increasingly desperate answers to sensible questions from people on this side of the House. They weren't looking up, all agog, in admiration of their fearless leader here in the Senate. They were watching Senator Brandis and then they were looking down at their phones. They were looking at their phones because they could not believe what they were hearing. Senator Brandis was talking about conspiracy theories that are barely credible. They're not credible to anyone in the media, they're not credible to anyone who's watching this extraordinary performance, and they're certainly not credible to people on this side of the chamber.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">I want to go to the kind of detachment from reality that is required to prosecute a conspiracy theory of this kind. Today, Senator Brandis was asked some fairly basic questions about things which have been said in the public domain—things that are written down; transcripts that you can look up on the internet. Even then, he was unable to accept the reality of what transpired yesterday. He was asked about whether he accepted the position that was set out by the New Zealand Minister of Internal Affairs, Peter Dunne, when he explained that the confirmation of Mr Joyce's New Zealand citizenship was, in fact, instigated by media inquiries. How did Senator Brandis answer this? He said, 'I don't accept that this is what he said.' I can read the tweet that was put out by the New Zealand Minister of Internal Affairs. He said:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">This is so much utter nonsense—while Hipkins' questions were inappropriate, they were not the instigator. Australian media inquiries were.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">This is on the public record; this is still on Twitter. Yet what does Senator Brandis say? He says, 'I don't accept that this is what he said.' This is deranged, this is detached from reality and it is not a sustainable political argument to make in this place.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Given that Minister Bishop has said that she doesn't accept Mr Dunne's version of events, Senator Brandis was asked whether Minister Bishop has informed her counterpart that she considers that he's lied on this occasion. What did he say? 'That is not what she said.' Again, I can read from the transcript. I, like every other person in this place, can actually read. What happened was that the journalist said:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">Minister, the New Zealand Minister, the relevant minister Dunne, has said today that it's utter nonsense to suggest that the Labour Party's question played any role and that it was actually media enquiries and not the Labour Party's question. What do you say to that?</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">What's her answer?</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">I don't accept that.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">She clearly repudiates the statement made by her counterpart in the New Zealand government, and yet, when asked about this, what does Minister Brandis say? 'That's not what she said.' </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Well, I've got something to say to the government and those sitting behind government frontbenchers: you cannot wish away reality. That is not an option. For all that people might wish to believe that this is over, we are still living in a reality-based community, and on this side of the chamber we will continue to prosecute our arguments based on fact—based on what actually happened, not based on some version of events that you wish happened. You'd do well to return your thoughts to reality as well.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Question agreed to.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Qualifications of Members</title>
          <page.no>59</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Qualifications of Members</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>59</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Whish-Wilson, Sen Peter</name>
              <name.id>195565</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>AG</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="195565" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator WHISH-WILSON</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Tasmania</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">15:31</span>):  I move:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">That the Senate take note of the answer given by the Attorney-General (Senator Brandis) to a question without notice asked by Senator Di Natale today, relating to the Deputy Prime Minister.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">I would like to make some comments about Minister Brandis's response to Senator Di Natale's question, which is also on citizenship. I want to reiterate, on behalf of the Australian Greens—we have been very consistent this week—we want to see an audit of every MP's and every senator's citizenship status. This will clear this issue up. This will put it behind us. This will give the public confidence in the institution of parliament that's so important to the Australian people. This will make it look like we're not in here being self-serving or doing this as a political party, which, of course, the Australian people are well and truly fed up and sick and tired with. It's an easy solution—as would be, by the way, amending the Australian Electoral Act to make it a requirement that, before you're sworn in to parliament, all this stuff be sorted out with the AEC and that they audit it as well, so that we don't have any future uncertainties.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">I want to make a very quick comment about Senator Paterson, who was very vocal when my ex-colleagues Senator Waters and Senator Ludlam resigned. He was tweeting things on section 44 such as:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">It's an entirely reasonable prohibition which is extremely straightforward to comply with.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">I'd say to Senator Paterson: how's that cold breeze blowing through your glass house in the last week? Do you need a dressing gown and slippers to avoid those rocks and that broken glass? People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw rocks—very, very embarrassing. But, to his credit, he wasn't the only one. There were a lot of other people having a poke, but we need to sort this issue out. My last comment is: seriously, if this country is going to pick a fight with New Zealand, there are much more important things we should be focusing on, like who invented the Pavlova, where Phar Lap's heart is, and why Split Enz haven't had a comeback tour. I will now sit down.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>59</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Hinch, Sen Derryn</name>
              <name.id>2O4</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>DHJP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="2O4" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator HINCH</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Victoria</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">15:33</span>):  I thank Senator Whish-Wilson for giving the rest of the crossbench two minutes of his time commenting on what Senator Paterson has said. I endorse the glass houses comment. It came from a lot of people. But he said that both Senator Canavan and the member for New England, the Crocodile Dunedin Mr Joyce, acted honourably and appropriately. Well, in the case of Senator Canavan, I agree that he did. He stood alongside the Attorney-General. The Attorney-General stood alongside him to give him some support while he stood down from the ministry. He didn't resign from the house, but he said he would not vote until the matter was settled by the High Court, and it was referred to the High Court.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">But I ask you to put the shoe on the other foot. In the current situation, in the way that the Attorney-General has tried to describe this, just imagine if it were Prime Minister Rudd, and Prime Minister Rudd were there in the other place and he discloses to the other place that Julia Gillard is still—surprise, surprise—a citizen of Wales, that she is still Welsh. They admit it and they refer her to the High Court, but, no, she doesn't stand down from the cabinet. He reappoints her. In that case I would think the Prime Minister, who would then have been the Leader of the Opposition, Mr Turnbull or Mr Abbott, would have gone nuts about that and attacked it up hill and down dale, because, as Senator Paterson says, section 44 is quite clear. I have read it over and over again. I made my phone calls to Wellington, to the Department of Internal Affairs, to make sure I got my renunciation papers in house and in order. He said it's very simple. They all could have done it.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">I will just make one other point. After some of Senator Dastyari's comments this afternoon about New Zealanders, I feel tempted to jump up and do a haka!</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Question agreed to.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>PETITIONS</title>
        <page.no>59</page.no>
        <type>PETITIONS</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <debate.text>
        <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
          <p class="HPS-Debate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Debate">PETITIONS</span>
          </p>
          <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Normal">A petition has been lodged for presentation as follows:</span>
          </p>
        </body>
      </debate.text>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Marriage</title>
          <page.no>60</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Marriage</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>60</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">PRESIDENT, The</name>
              <name.id>10000</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party />
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="e5v" type="OfficeSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-OfficeSpeech">The PRESIDENT</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Time">15:35</span>):  <span style="text-decoration:none underline;">In accordance with standing order 69(6) I present this petition as presented to me in my capacity as President of the Senate. I do not have any association with this petition. Further to the provisions of this standing order I hereby place my name at the beginning of this petition and declare that eight persons have signed this petition.</span></span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">To the Honourable President and members of the Senate in Parliament assembled:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">The petition of the undersigned shows:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">Changing the legal definition of marriage would have profound consequences for our society. All Australians deserve to have their say about its future.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">In 2016 the Coalition Government was re-elected after promising to hold a plebiscite to settle Australia's long-running marriage debate.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">Your petitioners ask that the Senate respects the will of the Australian people and passes enabling legislation for a plebiscite on marriage to be held.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">from <span style="font-weight:bold;">Senator Parry</span> (from 8 citizens)</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>NOTICES</title>
        <page.no>60</page.no>
        <type>NOTICES</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <debate.text>
        <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
          <p class="HPS-Debate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Debate">NOTICES</span>
          </p>
        </body>
      </debate.text>
      <subdebate.2>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Postponement</title>
          <page.no>60</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Postponement</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Normal">
                <span style="font-weight:bold;">The Clerk:</span>  Postponement notifications have been lodged in respect of the following:</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Small">General business notice of motion no. 371 standing in the name of Senator Rice for 17 August 2017, proposing an order for the production of documents by the Attorney-General, postponed till 7 September 2017.</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
      </subdebate.2>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>60</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <debate.text>
        <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
          <p class="HPS-Debate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Debate">COMMITTEES</span>
          </p>
        </body>
      </debate.text>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Finance and Public Administration References Committee</title>
          <page.no>60</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Finance and Public Administration References Committee</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>Reference</title>
            <page.no>60</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Reference</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>60</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">McAllister, Sen Jenny</name>
                <name.id>121628</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="121628" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator McALLISTER</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Deputy Opposition Whip in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">15:37</span>):  I move:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">That the following matter be referred to the Finance and Public Administration References Committee for inquiry and report by 4 December 2017: </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Digital delivery of government services, with particular reference to:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(a) whether planned and existing programs are able to digitally deliver services with due regard for:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">   (i) privacy,</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">   (ii) security,</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">   (iii) quality and reliability, and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">   (iv) value for money;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(b) strategies for whole of government digital transformation;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(c) digital project delivery, including:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">   (i) project governance,</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">   (ii) design and build of platforms,</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">   (iii) the adequacy of available capabilities both within the public sector and externally, and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">   (iv) procurement of digital services and equipment; and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(d) any other related matters.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>60</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">McGrath, Sen James</name>
                <name.id>217241</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="217241" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator McGRATH</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Assistant Minister to the Prime Minister</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">15:37</span>):  I seek leave to make a short statement.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>  Leave is granted for one minute.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="217241" type="MemberContinuation">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator McGRATH:</span>
                    </a>  The government opposes this motion because a referral will result in an unnecessary use of time and money for the committee and secretariat. The government has initiated a review of all projects over $10 million, and all critical business systems, with the results to be released shortly. The government publicly releases detailed IT investment information regularly on the AusTender website, which Labor acknowledged in their media release of 14 August.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Question agreed to.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
            <interjection>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>60</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">PRESIDENT, The</name>
                  <name.id>10000</name.id>
                  <electorate />
                  <party />
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </interjection>
            <continue>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>60</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">McGrath, Sen James</name>
                  <name.id>217241</name.id>
                  <electorate />
                  <party>LP</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </continue>
          </speech>
        </subdebate.2>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport References Committee</title>
          <page.no>60</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport References Committee</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>Reference</title>
            <page.no>60</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Reference</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>60</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Urquhart, Sen Anne</name>
                <name.id>231199</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="231199" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator URQUHART</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Tasmania</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Opposition Whip in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">15:38</span>):  I move:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">That the following matter be referred to the Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport References Committee for inquiry and report by 5 December 2017: </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The integrity of the water market in the Murray-Darling Basin, with particular reference to:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(a) the allegations of theft and corruption in the management of water resources in the Murray-Darling Basin,</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(b) the investigation and public disclosure by authorities, including the New South Wales Government and the Murray-Darling Basin Authority, of reported breaches within the Murray-Darling Basin, including the Barwon-Darling Water Sharing Plan,</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(c) the actions of member states in responding to allegations of corruption and the potential undermining of the Murray-Darling Basin Plan,</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(d) the use of Commonwealth-owned environmental water for irrigation purposes, and the impact on Basin communities and the environment,</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(e) the operation, expenditure and oversight of the Water for the Environment Special Account, and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(f) any other related matters.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Question agreed to.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
        </subdebate.2>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>61</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <debate.text>
        <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
          <p class="HPS-Debate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Debate">DOCUMENTS</span>
          </p>
        </body>
      </debate.text>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Murray-Darling Basin Plan</title>
          <page.no>61</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Murray-Darling Basin Plan</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>61</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Order for the Production of Documents</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>61</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Xenophon, Sen Nick</name>
                <name.id>8IV</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party>NXT</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="8IV" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator XENOPHON</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">15:38</span>):  I seek leave to amend general business notice of motion No. 420 standing in my name for today concerning an order for the production of documents relating to the Murray-Darling Basin Plan before asking that it be taken as a formal motion.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Leave granted.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="8IV" type="MemberContinuation">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator XENOPHON:</span>
                    </a>  I move the motion as amended:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">That— </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(a) the Senate notes that: (i) the Murray Darling river system is a national resource, </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:21.3pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(ii) the aim of the Murray Darling Basin Plan, agreed to in 2012, is to ensure that water is shared between all users, including the environment, in a sustainable way, </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:21.3pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(iii) it is important that the Commonwealth, the States and users comply with the agreed plan, </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:21.3pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(iv) on 24 July 2017 the ABC's <span style="font-style:italic;">Four Corners </span>program aired serious allegations in respect of the Barwon-Darling in relation to water pump tampering, theft and rorting, collusion between officials and irrigators, failures by officials to properly monitor compliance and the shutting down of compliance units in the face of alleged non-compliance, irregularity and illegality, and </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:21.3pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(v) the Senate has an oversight responsibility in relation to implementation and execution of the Murray Darling Basin Plan and visibility to modelling—financial and compliance data assist the Senate in this regard; and </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(b) there be laid on the table, by the Minister representing the Minister for Agriculture and Water Resources, by the start of business on 11 September 2017: </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:21.3pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(i) documents associated with the proposal to purchase water licences held by Tandou Ltd in June 2017, including ministerial briefs, and the associated contracts, </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:21.3pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(ii) draft and final reports and supporting documents, including assumptions used, about all modelling undertaken by the Murray Darling Basin Authority (MDBA) for the Barwon-Darling Unregulated River between 1 January 2014 and today, </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:21.3pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(iii) draft and final reports and supporting documents about all investigations or work undertaken by the MDBA tracking the movement of environmental water in the Northern Basin between 1 January 2014 and today—including documents about the legal extraction of environmental water and/or potentially unlawful extraction of water, </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:21.3pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(iv) a summary of expenditure of monies from the Water for the Environment Special Account to 30 June 2017 and today including: </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:28.35pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(A) the criteria for distributing monies from this account, </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:28.35pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(B) the evidence that these criteria had been met by the beneficiary of monies from this account, and </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:28.35pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(C) all transactions from this account to individuals or companies in relation to properties on the Barwon-Darling Unregulated River,</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:28.35pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(D) the scope of work associated with the transactions; and </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:21.3pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(v) reports on the distribution of monies for the On-Farm Irrigation Efficiency Program in the Barwon-Darling Unregulated River between 1 January 2014 and 30 June 2017 including:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:28.35pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(A) the criteria for distributing monies from this program, </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:28.35pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(B) all transactions from this program to individuals or companies, and </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:28.35pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(C) the scope of work associated with the transactions. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Question agreed to. </span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
            <continue>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>61</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Xenophon, Sen Nick</name>
                  <name.id>8IV</name.id>
                  <electorate />
                  <party>NXT</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </continue>
          </speech>
        </subdebate.2>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>MOTIONS</title>
        <page.no>62</page.no>
        <type>MOTIONS</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <debate.text>
        <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
          <p class="HPS-Debate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Debate">MOTIONS</span>
          </p>
        </body>
      </debate.text>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>International Development Assistance</title>
          <page.no>62</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">International Development Assistance</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>62</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Urquhart, Sen Anne</name>
              <name.id>231199</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="231199" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator URQUHART</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Tasmania</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Opposition Whip in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">15:40</span>):  At the request of Senator Singh, I move:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">That the Senate—</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">(a) notes that 19 August is World Humanitarian Day, as designated by unanimous consensus of the United Nations General Assembly;</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">(b) recognises:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">   (i) the impact of conflict, disaster and other humanitarian crises upon the safety, wellbeing and dignity of civilians throughout the world,</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">   (ii) the fundamental importance of humanitarian aid to the protection of civilians, particularly in light of current patterns of mass displacement and migration, and</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">   (iii) the critical nature of ongoing processes of stabilisation, peacebuilding, recovery and reconstruction after conflict;</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">(c) acknowledges and commends the ongoing contribution of humanitarian workers enabling the delivery of essential assistance to civilians impacted by conflict and disaster, often at great personal risk;</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">(d) encourages all Australians to reflect upon:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">   (i) the significance of humanitarian work,</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">   (ii) the importance of adequate resources for the delivery of crucial humanitarian aid programs, and</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">   (iii) the essential role of the United Nations in maintaining a rules-based international order and protecting human life and dignity;</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">(e) notes with concern:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">   (i) that cuts to Australia's aid and development budget have represented around 25% of all budget cuts since 2013,</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">   (ii) that the aid and development budget is predicted to fall to 0.22% of gross national income (GNI—the lowest level in its history—in 2017-18, and</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">   (iii) that Australia is, as a result, at odds with trajectories toward increased funding for aid and development both within and outside the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD); and</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">(f) calls upon the Government to commit to the promotion, implementation and provision of resources for humanitarian aid work wherever possible, including by:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">   (i) reversing the aid and development budget's ever-diminishing trajectory, and ensuring that Australia's aid program is adequately resourced in the future, and</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">   (ii) maintaining Australia's support for, and participation in, the United Nations.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>62</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">McGrath, Sen James</name>
              <name.id>217241</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>LP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="217241" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator McGRATH</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Assistant Minister to the Prime Minister</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">15:40</span>):  I seek leave to make a short statement.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>  Leave is granted for one minute.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="217241" type="MemberContinuation">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator McGRATH:</span>
                  </a>  The world is facing unprecedented humanitarian need. Australia continues to respond strongly, with funding of $399.7 million in 2017-18, an increase of $60 million from last year. This includes increasing our emergency fund to $150 million to provide timely, life-saving assistance to those in need, particularly in our region. Australia has committed over $800 million in humanitarian assistance since 2014 to help meet the needs of the 65 million displaced people worldwide, including Syrians and Iraqis affected by the current conflict. Calls to increase aid funding should describe which existing programs should be cut or which taxes raised to fund this.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Question agreed to. </span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>62</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">PRESIDENT, The</name>
                <name.id>10000</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>62</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">McGrath, Sen James</name>
                <name.id>217241</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </continue>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>NOTICES</title>
        <page.no>62</page.no>
        <type>NOTICES</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <debate.text>
        <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
          <p class="HPS-Debate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Debate">NOTICES</span>
          </p>
        </body>
      </debate.text>
      <subdebate.2>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Withdrawal</title>
          <page.no>62</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Withdrawal</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>62</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Hanson-Young, Sen Sarah</name>
              <name.id>I0U</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>AG</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="I0U" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator HANSON-YOUNG</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">15:41</span>):  I seek leave to withdraw business of the Senate notice of motion No. 1. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>  Leave granted. That motion is now withdrawn.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>62</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">PRESIDENT, The</name>
                <name.id>10000</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.2>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>BILLS</title>
        <page.no>63</page.no>
        <type>BILLS</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <debate.text>
        <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
          <p class="HPS-Debate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Debate">BILLS</span>
          </p>
        </body>
      </debate.text>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Defence Amendment (Fair Pay for Members of the ADF) Bill 2017</title>
          <page.no>63</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <a href="s1081" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Defence Amendment (Fair Pay for Members of the ADF) Bill 2017</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>First Reading</title>
            <page.no>63</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">First Reading</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>63</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lambie, Sen Jacqui</name>
                <name.id>250026</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party>JLN</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="250026" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator LAMBIE</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Tasmania</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">15:41</span>):  I move:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">That the following bill be introduced: A Bill for an Act to link pay for members of the Defence Force to pay for Parliamentarians or to CPI, and for related purposes.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Question agreed to.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="250026" type="MemberContinuation">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator LAMBIE:</span>
                    </a>  I present the bill and move:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">That this bill may proceed without formalities and be now read a first time.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Question agreed to.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Bill read a first time.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
            <continue>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>63</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Lambie, Sen Jacqui</name>
                  <name.id>250026</name.id>
                  <electorate />
                  <party>JLN</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </continue>
          </speech>
        </subdebate.2>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>63</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Second Reading</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>63</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lambie, Sen Jacqui</name>
                <name.id>250026</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party>JLN</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="250026" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator LAMBIE</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Tasmania</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">15:42</span>):  I move:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">That this bill be now read a second time.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I seek leave to table an explanatory memorandum relating to the bill.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Leave granted.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="250026" type="MemberContinuation">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator LAMBIE:</span>
                    </a>  I table an explanatory memorandum and I seek leave to have the second reading speech incorporated in <span style="font-style:italic;">Hansard</span>.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Leave granted.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span style="font-style:italic;" />
                    <span style="font-style:italic;">The speech read as follows—</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="text-align:center;direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">DEFENCE AMENDMENT (FAIR PAY FOR MEMBERS OF THE ADF) BILL 2017</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Today this chamber is presented with an opportunity to debate and vote for the Defence Amendment (Fair Pay for Members of the ADF) Bill 2017.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">This Private Senator's Bill was introduced in the last Parliament. It was debated in this chamber during the 44th Parliament and passed, but the House failed to bring it on for debate and consideration. Thus I have re-introduced it in this 45th Parliament. This bill links pay for military personnel of the Australian Defence Force with pay for Australian parliamentarians or to the consumer price index, whichever is higher.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">It became obvious for the need of this bill after the Liberal government, led by then-Prime Minister Abbott, announced a change in pay rates for members of our Army, Navy and Air Force which was in fact a pay cut after our nation's inflation rate was taken into consideration. The majority of fair-minded Australians have recognised that the system of determining wage rises for our diggers, sailors and airwomen and airmen has been broken and needs fixing. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The Defence Amendment (Fair Pay for Members of the ADF) Bill 2017 will serve as an equitable remedy to a fractured military pay system that determines the amount of pay to personnel of our Army, Navy and RAAF.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">This simple piece of legislation, if agreed to by the majority of senators in this chamber, will provide service members of our Australian Defence Force certainty and a guarantee that they will receive a fair pay increase. The Bill does this by putting in place a minimum pay rise, which at the very least keeps track with the consumer price index or politicians' pay increase, whichever is higher.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Because ADF members, unlike emergency services, non-uniform public servants and civilians, cannot be represented by a union, they are left to negotiate pay and conditions with one hand tied behind their back. This bill means the men and women of our ADF have their pay indexed independently, leaving them to focus on the important and invaluable work they do in service of our nation.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">In short, this bill is reasonable and measured. It does not have any provisions that are excessive. If you believe that Australian Defence Force members deserve a fair-go when it comes to calculating their wages, then my Private Senator's Bill will be very difficult to vote against. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">I urge all my Senate colleagues to support this Private Senator's Bill, which is in keeping with our fair-go ethos—bringing equity in pay to the men and women who serve our great nation. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="250026" type="MemberContinuation">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator LAMBIE:</span>
                    </a>  I seek leave to continue my remarks later.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Leave granted; debate adjourned.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
            <continue>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>63</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Lambie, Sen Jacqui</name>
                  <name.id>250026</name.id>
                  <electorate />
                  <party>JLN</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </continue>
            <continue>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>63</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Lambie, Sen Jacqui</name>
                  <name.id>250026</name.id>
                  <electorate />
                  <party>JLN</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </continue>
          </speech>
        </subdebate.2>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>MOTIONS</title>
        <page.no>63</page.no>
        <type>MOTIONS</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <debate.text>
        <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
          <p class="HPS-Debate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Debate">MOTIONS</span>
          </p>
        </body>
      </debate.text>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Vietnam Veterans Day</title>
          <page.no>63</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Vietnam Veterans Day</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>63</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Lambie, Sen Jacqui</name>
              <name.id>250026</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>JLN</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span style="font-weight:bold;" />
                  <a href="250026" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator LAMBIE</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Tasmania</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">15:43</span>):  I move:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">That the Senate—</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">(a) notes that:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">   (i) 18 August is Vietnam Veterans' Day,</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">   (ii) the day marks 51 years since the Battle of Long Tan, where – led by the Tasmanian-born Commanding Officer of the D Company 6th Battalion Royal Australian Regiment, Lieutenant Colonel Harry Smith SG MC – 108 Australians fought, 24 were wounded and 18 were killed,</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">   (iii) the day serves as an opportunity to commemorate more broadly the service of those 61 000 Australians who served in Vietnam, particularly the 521 who lost their lives and the 3 000 who were wounded, and their wives and families who have been left to care for them, and</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">   (iv) Australia's contribution to the Vietnam War was significant and costly, and these costs are still being experienced today; and</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">(b) calls on the federal government to work with all states and territories to:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">   (i) reflect on the repeated failings of repeated governments to recognise and respect those who came home, and those who did not, and</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">   (ii) heed, in word and deed, the motto of the Vietnam Veterans Association, to "Honour the dead but fight like hell for the living".</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>64</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">McGrath, Sen James</name>
              <name.id>217241</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>LP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="217241" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator McGRATH</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Assistant Minister to the Prime Minister</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">15:43</span>):  I seek leave to make a short statement.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>  Leave is granted for one minute.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="217241" type="MemberContinuation">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator McGRATH:</span>
                  </a>  The government acknowledges all current and former members of our defence forces and their families for the service and sacrifice they make on behalf of Australia. This Vietnam Veterans Day, we call on all Australians to reflect on the service of all our veterans who served in this conflict: the 60,000 ground troops and Air Force and Navy personnel, the 521 who died as a result of the war, and the more than 3,000 who were wounded. As Minister Tehan said in the first ministerial statement on veterans and their families:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">As a parliament it is our duty to watch over the care we provide our veterans, to ensure these men and women are provided for and that future generations understand their sacrifice.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Question agreed to.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>64</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">PRESIDENT, The</name>
                <name.id>10000</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>64</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">McGrath, Sen James</name>
                <name.id>217241</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </continue>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Environment</title>
          <page.no>64</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Environment</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>64</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Rhiannon, Sen Lee</name>
              <name.id>CPR</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>AG</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="CPR" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator RHIANNON</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">15:44</span>):  I move:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">That the Senate—</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">(a) notes that:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">   (i) earlier this year the NSW Government released a range of draft regulations and instruments to support two laws that cover how biodiversity, 'offsetting' and land-clearing are assessed in rural and urban areas,</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">   (ii) the NSW Government plans for these biodiversity and land-clearing changes to commence on 25 August 2017, and</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">   (iii) the NSW Environment Defenders Office in its submission to the NSW Government on this issue pointed out that:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">(A) the Biodiversity Offsets Scheme will not meet federal standards in the Commonwealth Offsets Policy under the <span style="font-style:italic;">Environment Protection and Biodiversity Conservation Act 1999</span>, and</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">(B) where Local Land Services (LLS) consider that proposed clearing may require Commonwealth approval, LLS will only certify the clearing after being reasonably satisfied by the landowner that Commonwealth approval is unnecessary or approval has been granted; and</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">(C) calls on the NSW Government to delay setting a commencement date until all the mapping required to be able to make decisions about land-clearing and offsets is accurately and comprehensively completed, and NSW offsets under the Commonwealth policy meet Commonwealth standards.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>64</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">McGrath, Sen James</name>
              <name.id>217241</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>LP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="217241" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator McGRATH</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Assistant Minister to the Prime Minister</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">15:44</span>):  I seek leave to make a short statement.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>  Leave is granted for one minute.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="217241" type="MemberContinuation">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator McGRATH:</span>
                  </a>  The government is working with New South Wales to ensure streamlined and effective environmental assessments. The New South Wales reforms do not change the need for Commonwealth approval under the Environment Protection and Biodiversity Conservation Act of 1999, and hence there will be no diminution of national and environmental standards. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Question agreed to.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>64</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">PRESIDENT, The</name>
                <name.id>10000</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>64</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">McGrath, Sen James</name>
                <name.id>217241</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </continue>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>National Science Week</title>
          <page.no>64</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">National Science Week</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>64</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Kakoschke-Moore, Sen Skye</name>
              <name.id>265982</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>NXT</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="265982" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator KAKOSCHKE-MOORE</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">15:45</span>):  I, and also on behalf of Senator Griff, move:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">That the Senate—</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">(a) notes that:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">   (i) National Science Week runs from 12 to 20 August 2017,</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">   (ii) it is Australia's annual celebration of science and technology, and thousands of people get involved from students to scientists, and chefs to musicians,</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">   (iii) the Week provides an opportunity to acknowledge the contributions of Australian scientists to the world of knowledge,</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">   (iv) it also aims to encourage an interest in science pursuits among the general public, and to encourage younger people to become fascinated by the world we live in,</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">   (v) science, technology, engineering and mathematics (STEM) is a critical part of the Australian economy, and according to a PricewaterhouseCoopers 2015 STEM report, a 1 per cent increase in people choosing a STEM-related career would result in gains for the country's economy exceeding $50 billion in revenue,</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">   (vi) however, Australia is not producing enough people with STEM skills to meet growing demand, with the number of young Australians choosing STEM subjects in high school in decline, according to 'Engaging the future of STEM' by Sarah Chapman and Dr Rebecca Vivian, and</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">   (vii) Chapman and Vivian also state that there is a significant gender disparity in STEM in Australia, with females significantly underrepresented in STEM education and careers; and</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">(b) calls on the Government to address the mismatch between increasing demand and falling supply, and the gender imbalance, in STEM.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Question agreed to.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>65</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <debate.text>
        <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
          <p class="HPS-Debate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Debate">DOCUMENTS</span>
          </p>
        </body>
      </debate.text>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Solicitor-General's Advice</title>
          <page.no>65</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Solicitor-General's Advice</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>65</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships" />
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>65</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Di Natale, Sen Richard</name>
                <name.id>53369</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party>AG</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="53369" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator DI NATALE</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Victoria</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Leader of the Australian Greens</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">15:45</span>):  I seek leave to amend general business notice of motion No. 428 standing in my name for today concerning an order for the production of documents relating to advice from the Solicitor-General before asking that it be taken as formal.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Leave is granted.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="53369" type="MemberContinuation">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator DI NATALE:</span>
                    </a>  I move the motion as amended:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">That—</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(a) the Senate notes:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">   (i) the admission of the Member for New England, Mr Barnaby Joyce MP, that he may hold New Zealand citizenship,</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">   (ii) that the New Zealand Government has confirmed that Mr Joyce is a citizen of New Zealand, and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">   (iii) that the case has been referred to the Court of Disputed Returns; and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(b) there be laid on the table, by the Attorney­ General, by no later than 12 noon on 17 August 2017, the Solicitor-General's advice regarding the eligibility of the Member for New England to continue to sit as a member of the House of Representatives or serve as a minister in the Cabinet.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
            <continue>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>65</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Di Natale, Sen Richard</name>
                  <name.id>53369</name.id>
                  <electorate />
                  <party>AG</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </continue>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>65</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">McGrath, Sen James</name>
                <name.id>217241</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="217241" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator McGRATH</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Assistant Minister to the Prime Minister</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">15:46</span>):  I seek leave to make a short statement. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>  Leave is granted for one minute. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="217241" type="MemberContinuation">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator McGRATH:</span>
                    </a>  The government opposes the motion. It has been the longstanding practice of both coalition and Labor governments not to release legal advice to government. There is no reason whatsoever to depart from that practice in this instance. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>  The question is that the motion—Senator Gallagher, are you seeking leave? </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="ING" type="MemberInterjecting">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Gallagher:</span>
                    </a>  Sorry, I'm just not clear on what the amendment is—just the time, is it?</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>  And that has been circulated in the chamber, I understand. The question is that the motion moved by Senator Di Natale for the order of production of documents be agreed to.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
            <interjection>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>65</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">PRESIDENT, The</name>
                  <name.id>10000</name.id>
                  <electorate />
                  <party />
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </interjection>
            <continue>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>65</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">McGrath, Sen James</name>
                  <name.id>217241</name.id>
                  <electorate />
                  <party>LP</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </continue>
            <interjection>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>65</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">PRESIDENT, The</name>
                  <name.id>10000</name.id>
                  <electorate />
                  <party />
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </interjection>
            <interjection>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>65</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Gallagher, Sen Katy</name>
                  <name.id>ING</name.id>
                  <electorate />
                  <party>ALP</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </interjection>
            <interjection>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>65</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">PRESIDENT, The</name>
                  <name.id>10000</name.id>
                  <electorate />
                  <party />
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </interjection>
          </speech>
          <division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [15:51]<br />(The President—Senator Parry)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>39</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Bilyk, CL</name>
                  <name>Brown, CL</name>
                  <name>Burston, B</name>
                  <name>Cameron, DN</name>
                  <name>Carr, KJ</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A</name>
                  <name>Collins, JMA</name>
                  <name>Dastyari, S</name>
                  <name>Di Natale, R</name>
                  <name>Dodson, P</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D</name>
                  <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                  <name>Gallagher, KR</name>
                  <name>Georgiou, P</name>
                  <name>Gichuhi, LM</name>
                  <name>Griff, S</name>
                  <name>Hanson, P</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                  <name>Hinch, D</name>
                  <name>Kakoschke-Moore, S</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J</name>
                  <name>Lines, S</name>
                  <name>Marshall, GM</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M</name>
                  <name>McKim, NJ</name>
                  <name>Moore, CM</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, DM</name>
                  <name>Polley, H</name>
                  <name>Rhiannon, L</name>
                  <name>Rice, J</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M</name>
                  <name>Siewert, R</name>
                  <name>Singh, LM</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, AE (teller)</name>
                  <name>Watt, M</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                  <name>Xenophon, N</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>25</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Abetz, E</name>
                  <name>Bernardi, C</name>
                  <name>Birmingham, SJ</name>
                  <name>Bushby, DC (teller)</name>
                  <name>Cash, MC</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, DJ</name>
                  <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                  <name>Fifield, MP</name>
                  <name>Hume, J</name>
                  <name>Leyonhjelm, DE</name>
                  <name>Macdonald, ID</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                  <name>Nash, F</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, B</name>
                  <name>Parry, S</name>
                  <name>Paterson, J</name>
                  <name>Payne, MA</name>
                  <name>Reynolds, L</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A</name>
                  <name>Scullion, NG</name>
                  <name>Sinodinos, A</name>
                  <name>Smith, D</name>
                  <name>Williams, JR</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names />
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division>
        </subdebate.2>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>MATTERS OF PUBLIC IMPORTANCE</title>
        <page.no>66</page.no>
        <type>MATTERS OF PUBLIC IMPORTANCE</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <debate.text>
        <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
          <p class="HPS-Debate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Debate">MATTERS OF PUBLIC IMPORTANCE</span>
          </p>
        </body>
      </debate.text>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Defence Procurement</title>
          <page.no>66</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Defence Procurement</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>66</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">PRESIDENT, The</name>
              <name.id>10000</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party />
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="e5v" type="OfficeSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-OfficeSpeech">The PRESIDENT</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Time">15:53</span>):  I inform the Senate that, at 8.30 am today, three proposals were received in accordance with standing order 75. The following proposal from Senator Xenophon was selected by lot. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">Pursuant to standing order 75, I propose that the following matter of public importance be submitted to the Senate for discussion:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">The urgent need for the Government to re-initiate the Future Frigate tender to permit Australian shipyards to take the lead role in the ship build.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Is the proposal supported?</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span style="font-style:italic;" />
                  <span style="font-style:italic;">More than the number of senators required by the standing orders having risen in their places—</span>
                </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span class="HPS-OfficeContinuation">The PRESIDENT:</span>  I understand that informal arrangements have been made to allocate specific times to each of the speakers in today’s debate. With the concurrence of the Senate, I shall ask the clerks to set the clock accordingly.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>66</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">PRESIDENT, The</name>
                <name.id>10000</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </continue>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>66</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Xenophon, Sen Nick</name>
              <name.id>8IV</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>NXT</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="8IV" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator XENOPHON</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">15:54</span>):  This is a matter of great public importance. There is an urgent need for the federal government to re-initiate the future frigate tender to permit Australian shipyards to take the lead roll in the ship build. The future frigate program is a $35 billion program and the proper execution of the future frigate project is itself part of a much broader $90 billion continuous naval shipbuilding plan. It is critical to Australia from a national defence perspective and it is also critical to the nation from an economic perspective.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">When the government released its Naval Shipbuilding Plan on 16 May 2017, it stated:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">This national endeavour is the most significant nation building project Australia has ever undertaken. Larger and more complex than the Snowy Mountains Hydro-Electric Scheme and the National Broadband Network, , the Naval Shipbuilding Plan that the government is delivering will engage all states and territories through their contributions to naval shipbuilding and sustainment of both current and future naval vessels, or as contributors to industry supply chains, or providers of national workforce development and skilling to meet the growing need for skilled naval shipbuilding workers across the sector.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Well, that's the plan. But let's look at the plan in practice.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Despite the fanfare and the rhetoric, over the past few weeks we learned slowly that the bulk of this national endeavour, this strategic defence program, will be executed by foreign companies. On 20 July this year at a hearing of the Senate Economic References Committee inquiry into the future of naval shipbuilding—I was there, with Senator Carr—it was revealed that Defence knew, and for some time had known, that ASC would have no substantive role in the Future Submarine program. And we now hear that ASC or Austal will have no substantive role in the future frigate program.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">How did we hear this? Not as part of the defence white paper, not as part of any announcement of the Naval Shipbuilding Plan and not through FOI either. I tried that in May, only to be knocked back on the grounds, 'A release of the requested information for the request for tender would invite heightened public and media discussion on the suitability of the Commonwealth's Australian industry capability requirements.' Well, excuse me—this is a $90 billion program and $35 billion for the frigates, and heightened discussion and debate is something that should be avoided? That is absolutely wrong.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">The public, the management of ASC and the workers of ASC have only found out the plans because the documents have been leaked to <span style="font-style:italic;">The Advertiser</span> in Adelaide. And I might point out that, contrary to the minister's claim in the chamber today, this is not a leaked classified document; it is only a leaked embarrassing document. The FOI decision is under review as we speak, and I note that the FOI exemptions that have been used are the same ones used for the request I made about the competitive evaluation process for the submarines. Those exemptions were dropped as an Information Commissioner's review progressed. I expect that could well happen here as well.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">To the minister, through you Mr President: most tender documents in this country are completely public. The idea that the release of an unclassified tender document could derail a process such as this is ludicrous. The decision on whether these documents could or should not be released is a matter likely to be determined by the AAT, because of the government's secrecy in relation to these documents.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">But let's come back to the government's approach to the Australian continuous stable shipbuilding program. If we look back on the recent history of shipbuilding in this country, we will see that the Fremantle-class patrol boats were built by an Australian company. The Durance class supply ships were built by an Australian company. The Antarctic Division's icebreaker, <span style="font-style:italic;">Aurora Australis</span>, was built by an Australian company. The Anzac class frigates were built by an Australian company. The Armidale class patrol boats were built by an Australian company. The Collins class submarines were built by an Australian company, and the air warfare destroyers were built by an Australian company.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Let's look to the shipbuilding endeavours of this government and the contrast. Under this government we have seen our supply ship build exported to Spain; our icebreaker built offshore in Romania; our future submarines being built by the French company, Naval Group—formerly DCNS; and now our future frigates being built by a British, an Italian or a Spanish company. Is this offshoring and fly-in fly-out shipbuilding approach seriously the government's approach to creating a sovereign shipbuilding capability? We are supposed to be trying to build a world-class sovereign shipbuilding base which will support thousands of long-term high-quality jobs directly, and thousands more through the supply chain, but, more importantly, for it to be the industry base that supports our sailors at sea in times of peace or conflict.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">To do this I defer to the advice of one of the country's most experienced shipbuilding executives, David Singleton, the Austal chief executive officer. In a recent <span style="font-style:italic;">Sunday Mail</span> article he said:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">… we need to work on creating an industry that stands on its own two feet, free of government subsidy.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">We cannot afford for the naval shipbuilding industry to be addicted to government welfare for its survival.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">The key lies in exports and the key to exports lies in Australia owning the intellectual property behind every ship it builds.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">The ability to conceive new ship designs, develop them and build them in Australia needs to be a clear focus of the future Australian shipbuilding industry.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">It is critical that through our investment in submarines, frigates and patrol boats, the Federal Government secures the intellectual knowledge in the minds of Australians, resident in Australia, working in Australian companies such that we have the capacity to design new ships for ourselves and for our export markets.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Instead, we invite foreign companies to fly in and fly out of our country and to work primarily for profit. Under the arrangements set up by this government, we will see a foreign company take the lead in these nationally significant programs, a foreign company that will control the program, a foreign company that will install their own management teams in Adelaide and elsewhere, a foreign company that will choose the workforce, a foreign company that will control the intellectual property and a foreign company that will determine the shipyard's strategic direction.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">When an export opportunity arises, it won't be for the local shipyard to determine if we can export; the decision will be made in the context of the corporate plans of someone in Paris, Rome, Madrid or London. It is a decision that will be made without Australian government consultation or control, by virtue of the documents that have been disclosed. The decision to construct this program in this way is fundamentally flawed. I'm not surprised by this, noting that the government made every major decision in this program before it had come up with a plan. The naval shipbuilding plan was released after the submarine CEP, after the patrol boat tenders, after the tender for the OPVs, offshore patrol vessels, and after the future frigate tender. This is really a cart-before-the-horse approach.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Finally, let me give the chamber some key data points on the likely and feared shutdown of ASC. Firstly, the submarine CEP was run with Defence not intending to have ASC having a role. ASC is going to be broken up into three entities. The first is submarine sustainment. I note that the naval shipbuilding plan did not state that the Collins sustainment would stay in Australia—that it could go elsewhere. Secondly, Australian Naval Infrastructure Pty Ltd and ASC Shipbuilding are entities, which is basically a workforce, and the future frigate tender was released with no role for ASC or Austal. Defence have been desperate to keep me from seeing those documents in the exhaustive FOI process I have been going through. They have said they don't want heightened media awareness of this and public awareness, and that is wrong. There is nothing in the ASC order book. Indeed, if Fassmer, who have teamed with Austal for the OPV, were to win the OPV competition, then ASC would have nothing.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">How must it feel to be a worker at ASC today? What impact will today's news have on the ASC team spirit that has been built up as it has successfully and efficiently built the air warfare destroyers. We have recently seen Nos 2 and 3 beating world-class benchmarks. There has been real reform, real productivity and real efficiency. What impact will it have on the ASC? What impact will it have on workers as a result of future employment uncertainty and as they contemplate working for a foreign company that they have no understanding of?</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">This future frigate tender is flawed. It is strategically inept. It compromises our sovereign capability because we will lose the intellectual property. We will lose the ability to control our destiny when it comes to naval shipbuilding. This is the biggest procurement project we have seen—this $90 billion plan, which I know all of us support. The government needs to re-initiate the future frigate tender to permit Australian shipyards to take the lead role in the ship build. The Minister for Defence, who I believe has enormous integrity—and I have enormous regard for her competence, her capacity and her fundamental integrity—did not directly refute any of the comments that I made in relation to this. The Minister for Defence may have great integrity, but this tender process for the future frigates absolutely does not.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>68</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Fawcett, Sen David</name>
              <name.id>DYU</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>LP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="DYU" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator FAWCETT</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Deputy Government Whip in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">16:03</span>):  I too would like to make some comments on this matter of public importance. I say from the outset that Senator Xenophon is embarking here on a political stunt. The facts that he is relying on are flawed, his rationale is flawed and his proposals are flawed. Let me step through those one by one.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">He finished his contribution by saying that the government's approach would mean that Australia would not have Australian workers working in an Australian company, with sovereign control over IP, generating products that we could export. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Industry come around and brief members and senators frequently. I know they have briefed Senator Xenophon. Clearly, I wasn't there in his briefing, so I don't know what was said. But I do know what was said in the economics committee inquiry on 4 April, when Senator Xenophon asked Saab—with a parent company in Sweden, now an Australian company in Adelaide—about the value of their work, going into dollars; about their workforce; and about their IP. And he knows because he's been told in public, and I would lay odds on the fact that he's been told in private, that companies like Saab—which, yes, had a foreign parent but now have Saab Australia—have nearly 400 people, all Australians, working in Australia on sovereign capability where we own the IP and we are exporting that product overseas with the support of this government.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">So the whole premise of Senator Xenophon's point is flawed, and he knows it. The facts not aligning with his political narrative, unfortunately, has not stopped him from undermining the confidence of people around Australia and particularly people in South Australia about the government's plans; not only plans but commitments and investments towards the national shipbuilding program, which goes to industry capability and the capability that our men and women will take to sea.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Saab is not the only company in this place. Senator Xenophon's contention is that, if it's not a company that people immediately recognise as an Australian company, then somehow they're not real jobs; we don't have IP; and we can't export. I'd invite him to go and speak to the Australians who work at Thales, who produce things like the Bushmaster and the Hawkei. That is another example of a company that has come and embedded in Australia, with an Australian CEO and an Australian workforce; it is developing Australian IP and real military capability, and it is exporting it. It also happens to employ nearly 3,200 Australians. There are 3,300 in BAE Systems and—again, IP around things like the Nulka and involvement in shipbuilding programs. The very premise of Senator Xenophon's argument is flawed.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">What he also ignores is the lessons we have learned from the programs like the air warfare destroyer and even things like the Armidale patrol boat. He mentioned that as an Australian-built boat, and it is—a great vessel. One of the reasons we had problems with that in its through-life support was that the designer of the vessel was not part of the consortium that was looking after the through-life support. So, when vessels started getting fatigue issues, there weren't the immediate, informed steps required to address that. One of the lessons we have learnt from the air warfare destroyer—and Senator Xenophon well knows, because he sat in the inquiries where we had to see Navantia, as the designer, brought back into the mix—is that it's important that the designer and the builder are joined at the hip in building a complex warship like Sea 5000 will be.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">The government in this tender, contrary to what Senator Xenophon has said, has not gone out and said that Australian companies cannot participate. What we have said is that particular companies are not mandated. There is nothing to stop a company that we have let a contract to saying, 'We'll engage with Austal,' or, 'We'll engage with ASC,' if that's what they choose to do. But the lesson we learnt from the AWD is that it is critical that the designer and the builder, the people who are managing the program, are joined at the hip so we don't repeat some of the lessons that saw some of those very early poor productivity outcomes on the AWD.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">We also learned that the issue is not about the workers. As we've seen with the AWD, by ship 3, they are now at world's best practice. Guess what? In ship 2, the quality of the work was also great, and in ship 1, whilst they were ramping up, the individual worker's quality was nearly always tiptop. It was the broader management and alliance and governance issues that let that program down. Senator Xenophon should know this because he gets briefs from industry. Just last week the Joint Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade, which I chair, had Australian industry players come into this parliament specifically to talk about workforce requirements for the national shipbuilding plan and specifically Sea 5000. The very clear message that came from those people is they are already investing in infrastructure and ramping up the size of their companies because they see that the government's commitment through the <span style="font-style:italic;">Defence industry policy statement</span> is a paradigm shift from where we have been in the past, like the start-stop programs over decades or the six years of Labor doing absolutely nothing to stimulate or contract for new ships during their time in office.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Not only has this government has let new contracts—and it is tendering for more—but the fundamental input to capability that industry forms has now been formally recognised through the first principles review. The <span style="font-style:italic;">Defence industry policy statement</span> makes it clear that we see the long-term value for money for the taxpayer means having capability for our Defence Force that is affordable, available and suitable for the task over its life of type. That means that we need to have Australian industry capable to actually form the supply chain, to be involved in the management of the IP, to have all the design artefacts and to have the capacity to understand what those design artefacts mean so they can repair, modify and certify those ships as safe for use.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">So this government is putting in place not just the policy but the funding and the contracts. People in South Australia will see in the very near future, because the contracts have been let, things like the development of the new ship site at Osborne for these ships to be built. So what we see is a government that has for the first time committed to a continuous shipbuilding program in order to give our Navy the capability they need when they need it, fit-for-task and supported by an industry that is sustainable.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Industry have welcomed this. We saw in the meeting I had last week with the industry players their commitment. We have seen the purchase of Techport from the South Australian government. We have seen the creation of the Naval Shipbuilding College, which is to be based in Adelaide. We had a lot of discussion about that last week, and the clear message from industry was that, far from there being thousands of South Australian workers out of work, they are concerned that there will not be enough workers who are skilled to actually fulfil these programs. So we had lengthy discussions about how they and the government could partner with the upskilling of people, whether they're coming out of the auto industry, whether they're coming out of ASC off the AWD program or whether they are kids still in school who are going to be employed in 10 or 20 years time because of the investments of this government.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">So the whole premise of Senator Xenophon's motion in this chamber today is flawed. The government is investing and taking the lessons from the past to make sure that we have a capability that is supported by an Australian workforce, generates Australian IP and is controlled by management that is here in Australia and has the capability to export. That is the absolute essence of the national shipbuilding plan. That is what industry is working towards.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">The final thing I would say to Senator Xenophon is: if he is concerned about jobs in South Australia—he has been out on the stump many times about the valley of death caused by the Labor Party doing nothing for six years—how is deferring or scrapping this tender and going back to reissue a tender and extend this whole process for another six to 12 months going to help workers? Those workers are looking forward to the start of the OPV program and Sea 5000 by 2020, which this government has brought forward in order to stem the valley of death that was created by those opposite. I do not support this motion, because the Australian government has put in place a framework that will give our Navy the capability they need and give Australian industry and, therefore, generations of Australians high-skilled jobs for decades to come.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>70</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Carr, Sen Kim</name>
              <name.id>AW5</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="AW5" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator KIM CARR</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Victoria</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">16:14</span>):  These are very disturbing developments that have occurred overnight with the release of the tender documents for the frigate program. I normally listen quite attentively to Senator Fawcett, who is usually very well informed on these matters, but I think on this occasion he has let us down a bit because he actually hasn't referred to the documents themselves. His case would have been so much the stronger if he were able to directly cite the documents themselves. I think when we are discussing these questions we do have—</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="e68" type="OfficeInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT </span>
                  </a>
                  <span class="HPS-GeneralBold">(</span>
                  <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">Senator Sterle</span>
                  <span class="HPS-GeneralBold">):</span>  Senator Fawcett on a point of order?</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="DYU" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Fawcett:</span>
                  </a>  A point of order or personal explanation. I did actually go to the point that the tender just didn't mandate, Senator Carr.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT:</span>  That is a debating point. It's not a point of order. Senator Carr.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="AW5" type="MemberContinuation">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator KIM CARR:</span>
                  </a>  You did state that, but you didn't actually cite the documents. Normally you would be more thorough in your presentation. You have asserted that this is a stunt. This is not a stunt. This is a matter that should concern all senators. We have been presented with evidence that we have been completely misled about what is actually going on.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">You make an assertion about the level of scrutiny that occurs with the IP arrangements for the submarines. That discussion has been held in secret. There has been no documentation revealed of those matters. You talk about the skills college. Of course, the Tasmanians will point out the consequences of that arrangement with Minister Pyne in regard to the undermining of the skills college that already exists in Tasmania. The Minister for Defence Industry has been trying to deceive Australians about this contract for some time, as he has about the Future Submarines contract. In March, when the three international tenders for the Future Submarines were released, the minister said:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">This $35 billion project will create thousands of jobs in my home state of South Australia.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">It will create knock-on benefits up and down the supply chain across the country.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">The government is getting on with it, making good decisions as early as possible to give Australian industry and the ADF the certainty they seek.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">But the minister did not release the request for tender publicly, and now we can understand why. The documents that have actually been released to the media show that the government has been engaged in a fraudulent exercise. Nothing in these documents guarantees the creation of thousands of jobs in South Australia or anywhere else in Australia. The successful tenderer will be under no obligation to hire Australian workers. That's what the documents actually say. They're not under any obligation to use an Australian supply chain. Once again, Christopher Pyne has been unmasked.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Of course, Christopher Pyne is the cabinet minister tasked with the national plan for the sustainment of Australian naval shipbuilding. He has not done what he said he would be doing. These documents demonstrate that, in fact, he is not building a national shipbuilding plan but is doing a marginal seat strategy for the Liberal Party. He says he's the great fixer. He says Pyne delivers. What we have before us is the evidence of the shams and deceptions. He delivers only false promises. That's all.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">In October last year the minister launched the so-called national roadshow. He said then:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">The Future Frigate and Offshore Patrol Vessel programs will directly create over 2500 jobs for Australians and will indirectly support the jobs of many thousands more. However, to ensure this occurs, it is critical that we provide Australian companies with opportunities to enter the supply chain.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">'We will ensure', he said. That's not what the tender documents actually say. In fact, they say exactly the opposite. The government's under no obligation to actually go to any contractor. There's no mandating of Australian suppliers.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">What is critical about this is that the government is really only saying, 'Well, you get the chance to bid for the work, but that's about it.' The request for tender does not stipulate that Australian firms should even get the opportunities that the minister promised. There is no indication of the 2,500 jobs in South Australia or where they might come from. This is despite the extraordinary skills of the workforce at the ASC—a workforce, of course, that built the air warfare destroyers. This is what we found out with the submarines contract. The ASC will be locked out despite what we were told prior to the contracts being awarded to the French. There were glossy pamphlets put around that specified that this is the plan.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">We then discovered at the last round of hearings at the Senate Economics References Committee that the French company has no intention of involving the ASC. What the document states is:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">The successful Tenderer will not be directed to utilise any particular shipbuilding workforce or engage any particular provider of shipbuilding services.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">There it is in black and white. There is no plan to sustain Australian shipbuilding. There is no plan here for the Australian workers—no plan for Australian jobs. But, just in case we might have this idea that it is a lack of obligation on the successful tenderer, and if that wasn't clear enough, the document goes on:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">In particular, the Commonwealth is not mandating that the successful Tenderer use the workforce of ASC Shipbuilding Pty Ltd currently working on the AWD Program.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">I repeat that:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">… the Commonwealth is not mandating that the successful Tenderer use the workforce of ASC Shipbuilding Pty Ltd currently working on the AWD Program.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">It is true that the minister never said they would. But he did say this:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">Common sense suggests that everybody who has worked on previous shipbuilding projects, who is looking for work on the Future Frigates, will be first in line—</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">I emphasise those words: 'first in line'—</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">as the Government looks to not just maintain the skilled workforce but expand it.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">That was said on 15 August this year. The government, of course, is obviously a great fan of Lewis Carroll's <span style="font-style:italic;">Alice</span><span style="font-style:italic;">'s Adventures</span><span style="font-style:italic;"> in Wonderland</span>. Those familiar with the work will recall the words of Humpty Dumpty:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">When I use a word … it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">There could be no more Humpty-Dumpty-like figure in Australian politics than Christopher Pyne, because when he talks about 'common sense' he actually means, 'Whatever I think I can actually get away with,' and when he talks about not just maintaining the skilled workforce but expanding it, what he actually means is: 'Nothing's going to happen'! So, to misquote the title of Lewis Carroll's story, it's a bit like 'malice in blunderland'.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Unfortunately, this is not a story that one could get any humour out of. This is a minister in a government that ought to face up to its responsibility and to understand that these are real people in a real industry with real problems demanding the support of their government. After all, the government is spending only $35 billion on this project alone.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">And we see shameless deception. Remember: the government started off on the submarine program saying that 90 per cent of the submarines would be built in Australia. Remember that comment? Well, we made inquiries. We heard it wasn't anything like that. Mr Brent Clark from DCNS declined to repeat the figure. In fact he said:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">I do not want to give this committee a figure …</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">When asked about the possible role of the submarine builder ASC, he said:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">Very little at this stage.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Christopher Pyne told South Australia he would deliver. What he actually meant, I think, was that very little would be delivered.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Australians are sick and tired of lies, deception and broken promises. This request for tender should be withdrawn. The fraudulent tender process has been exposed. I'll be referring this matter to a Senate inquiry for another hearing on this matter to get to the very bottom— <span style="font-style:italic;">(Time expired)</span></span>
              </p>
            </body>
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                <page.no>70</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Sterle, Sen Glenn (The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>10000</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
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                <page.no>70</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Fawcett, Sen David</name>
                <name.id>DYU</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
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                <page.no>70</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT, The</name>
                <name.id>10000</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
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            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>70</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Carr, Sen Kim</name>
                <name.id>AW5</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
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        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>71</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Hanson-Young, Sen Sarah</name>
              <name.id>I0U</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>AG</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="I0U" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator HANSON-YOUNG</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">16:24</span>):  I rise to add my voice to this motion as moved by Senator Xenophon today. What an important issue this is for those of us who live in South Australia. Our state has the highest unemployment rate in the country, and youth unemployment is even higher than the average unemployment rate.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">We know that jobs in our state are absolutely critical and we know we need a proper jobs plan for South Australia. However, all we seem to get from this federal government are more cuts and broken promises, and ministers who fly in and have a go at our great state, a bit of a laugh at our expense. We have seen that from the Prime Minister. We have seen that from the Treasurer. We have seen that from the Deputy Prime Minister. The list goes on and on and on. Oh, and let's not forget the Minister for Resources and Energy: he had a good laugh, didn't he, at South Australia's expense? He did nothing to create more jobs for our state but decided to make himself a bit of a comedian by having a good old crack. South Australians are sick of it. We're absolutely sick and tired of this federal government kicking our state, kicking our workers and doing nothing to help when it comes to the jobs crisis in South Australia, at a time when industries are doing their best to get themselves on their feet to re-power our great South Australian economy.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">We know that the attacks come in the form of attacks on the renewable energy industry, and all the jobs currently being created and continue to be created for our state. We know all about the false hope given when the federal government said that it would save the jobs at the Whyalla steelworks by doing a deal with the dodgy, corrupt, fraudulent company Adani. We know that those jobs were never going to eventuate. We now hear today that this company is in trouble for fraud charges. The federal government wants to give a billion-dollar open cheque from the Australian taxpayer out of the Northern Australia Infrastructure Fund to Adani, and South Australians should be happy that we were given a false promise that that would help save the steelworks in Whyalla—false hope, nastiness and broken promises. We know the government left the Holden workers hanging out to dry and did very little to help them transition. Holden closes in October and then what? I guess we'll have someone from the frontbench of the Turnbull government fly in and have a good crack on the first day that those workers are left without a job to go to.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Today we hear that the jobs that were promised for the Adelaide shipyards in the frigate contracts are not even guaranteed. What on earth is the point of spending all of this taxpayer money building these things, signing overseas contracts only to then say, 'But you don't have to employ any of the locals that are currently there'? The government and the minister say they can't mandate this: 'It's impossible to mandate this'.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">There are plenty of other things that get done by this government. When they want to scratch the backs of their mates, they find a way to do it. When they want to deliver big business tax cuts, they do it. When they want to give a sop to the big banks, they do it. But for the workers down at the shipyard in Adelaide, well, apparently we can't guarantee that they're going to get a job. This is not good enough, Minister Pyne; not good enough, Prime Minister Turnbull. The Greens believe, fundamentally, that if we are to move forward with these contracts, if we are going to spend this money building these frigates, then there should be a local employment target. We should have a guarantee that South Australians will get jobs out of this and that those jobs will stay in our state. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Just to add more salt to the wound, we know that the government has cut a deal with One Nation in the last 24 hours to make cuts to the ABC. How many jobs does that mean we will be losing from our state, either in our regional areas or, indeed, in the Collinswood studios in Adelaide?</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">How many jobs are going to be lost at Adelaide's ABC, because of the deal that this government has done with One Nation? </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">We're sick and tired in South Australia of the federal government, the Prime Minister and his ministers, flying in, having a good kick at our state and doing nothing to help us lift the jobs numbers in our state and get young people, in particular, employed. </span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>72</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Birmingham, Sen Simon</name>
              <name.id>H6X</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>LP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="H6X" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator BIRMINGHAM</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for Education and Training</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">16:30</span>):  South Australia, my home state, has real challenges—the highest unemployment rate in the country. These are challenges we have to face up to and be honest about—indeed they are challenges that our government is determined to do everything we possibly can to address, but of course they also require action at the local level, which has been so sadly lacking. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">South Australia doesn't just have real challenges; it has an image problem fed by those who want to talk the state down. And, sadly, all too often that comes from our own state—from people who are wanting to concoct political opportunity in our own state so they can talk it down. That is what we are seeing in this beat-up, rubbish news story that is being pushed around the place today—fed presumably by Senator Xenophon to the Adelaide<span style="font-style:italic;"> Advertiser</span>—and is the subject of the debate in this chamber right now. It is the biggest load of rubbish I've read in the paper for a long, long time. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Let's be crystal clear: the nine future frigates are guaranteed to be built in South Australia, mandated—to use the word Senator Hanson-Young just used—to be built in South Australia, in Adelaide, at Port Adelaide, at the Osborne shipyards. That's where they're going to be built, so where are the jobs going to be? Guess what? They're going to be in South Australia, in Adelaide, in Port Adelaide, at the Osborne shipyards. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">This is nothing more than a scurrilous scare campaign. It is unnecessarily scaring the workers of Osborne and scaring the people who fear for the state's future when in fact we have a great opportunity as a state. And it does those senators in this place, who come in here and try to seize the opportunity of this scare campaign, no credit whatsoever to add to the negativity that surrounds the image in South Australia, to give another blow to the confidence of the people of South Australia. It does them no good at all.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">I am saddened that Senator Xenophon appears to be leading the case in this regard. Why on earth does he think that those who successfully win a tender that requires them to build the future frigates in Adelaide would then overlook the South Australian workforce? Why on earth does he think that somehow it will be more cost-effective for them not to employ skilled workers who are there, ready and available to build the ships and instead source them from somewhere else? It's a preposterous argument; it's a ridiculous argument. It holds no water and makes no sense, and yet he perseveres with it. Senator Xenophon has renamed his local party South Australia's best. Sadly, it seems that the brand that Senator Xenophon wants to build instead is one of talking down the state, talking down South Australia and talking down the opportunities that have been created by the Turnbull government's decisions around shipbuilding. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Unlike the Labor Party, who for six years went through office consistently promising they were going to do something about new submarines but never commissioned one single ship to be built in Australia, we have got on with the job and guaranteed that, in relation to the South Australian shipyards, there will be two offshore patrol vessels, nine future frigates and 12 submarines, all generating in excess of 5,000 direct jobs and thousands more indirect jobs. The future frigates alone, starting in 2020, will generate around 2,000 direct jobs and thousands more indirect jobs. And yet we have Senator Xenophon, the Labor Party and the Greens all conspiring to say, 'Those jobs won't exist.' Of course they'll exist: they'll exist in Adelaide, because that's where the ships are going to be built. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">This is nothing but scuttlebutt and, of course, if we actually took it literally, the result of the motion that Senator Xenophon has brought to the chamber would delay the project by months, if not years.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">That's the absurdity of the proposition on the table: thousands of jobs would truly be at risk if we went right back to the start of this tender process, as Senator Xenophon seems to be suggesting in his motion, and allowed it all to start again. The tenders are in and being assessed. We'll have a winning tender in the not-too-distant future. We'll have certainty that work is going to start in 2020. We'll have certainty that people are going to be employed in Adelaide to undertake this work. We'll have guarantees that there are actually going to be opportunities, jobs and prospects for people to get on and undertake this very valid work. It was only last week that the request for tender closed. Yet now we're confronted with a matter of public importance motion suggesting we should go back and start it again. It's not only ridiculous, it's downright dangerous in that it would further undermine capability in South Australia if we were to do that. It would further extend the valley of death that the six years of Labor inaction created in terms of the shipbuilding workforce in South Australia.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">I cannot believe that all those parties opposite want to play such politics with this enormous national investment activity. Our shipbuilding program, our defence investment program as a government, is the largest investment undertaken in this country since the Snowy Mountains Scheme. It is about building a sovereign, indigenous, naval shipbuilding capability in Australia. For the first time, difficult decisions have been made about prioritising shipyards, about making sure that we have a critical mass of work and about making sure that we have an ongoing platform and body of work. All of these decisions have been made in the interests of ensuring that Adelaide is the hub for this construction activity decades into the future. This is the golden goose that the Turnbull government has laid to help South Australia, to guarantee jobs for South Australia, yet those playing politics want to kill off the golden goose before we even get the benefits of the egg. We're going to see contracts signed, people employed and jobs starting now, within a realistic time frame. The offshore patrol vessel work is due to start only next year and the future frigates are due to start only a couple of years later—with those contracts all underway.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">I hope that people will take a step back from the lunacy of the newspaper story that's been fed out today and realise the logic that with $90 billion worth of shipbuilding activity in the pipeline there is certainty for South Australia that there is going to be a big uplift in work, in economic activity and in job prospects. The real debate that we should be having is a debate about how we capitalise on it, how we make the most of it. That's why, as a government, we have not only sought to pursue the work around the delivery of these projects but also coupled that with activities in terms of defence industry investment in SA, the building of further capability and the building of innovation related activities in SA. All of this is about ensuring that those businesses that will be supplying into our sovereign, national shipbuilding capability in South Australia are encouraged to look at how they can leverage off that, leverage further opportunities for feeding into supply chains of other defence projects around Australia and around the world and leverage further opportunities to supply outside of defence into other related high-tech projects.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">It does those who come in here no credit whatsoever to run this shameful fear campaign and suggest that the workforce won't be in SA. They are, of course, stoking fear rather than helping to stoke the future engine of South Australia's workforce. The defence industry will be that engine. It will be driving and sustaining a new wave of high-tech, highly-skilled jobs in South Australia. The debate we should be having is about how we make sure we maximise that so that, in the future, Senator Leyonhjelm—who I know will speak in a second—will no longer be able to run the types of appalling lines that he runs about my home state, of which I'm proud. In the future, he and others will see that we're a proud state, a state with a great history and a state that is achieving much by using the investment in the defence industry in our state to grow more jobs, more industries, more expertise and more capabilities. These are the types of debates the Turnbull government is focused on: making sure we deliver on the future frigates, the patrol vessels, the submarines, and making sure we maximise the workforce in SA, but also making sure we then leverage off that opportunities to generate even more capability for our state and future, even more jobs, so that the 5,000 direct jobs are just the tip of the iceberg. That's our focus. Shame on those who want to scare the workers! <span style="font-style:italic;">(Time expired)</span></span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>74</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Gallacher, Sen Alex</name>
              <name.id>204953</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="204953" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator GALLACHER</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">16:40</span>):  Before I speak in support of this MPI, I want to put on the record that the initial image problem Senator Birmingham alluded to came from the government side of the chamber when the then Senator the Hon. David Johnston said: 'I wouldn't trust the ASC to build a canoe!' And where is David Johnston now? The government of the day had to do the repair work. They had to do the damage control. Under former Prime Minister Abbott and under Prime Minister Turnbull, they have been in damage control—and we just thought there had been some progress made.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">It's interesting to note that, on 18 April 2016, the Hon. Christopher Pyne, accompanied by the Minister for Defence and the Prime Minister, promised continuous jobs for workers at Osborne in my state, probably for several generations, because of this promised activity. We know, through some paperwork that Senator Xenophon has got, that the tender document speaks in another way:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">The successful tenderer will not be directed to utilise any particular shipbuilding workforce or engage any particular provider of shipbuilding services …</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">And then it says:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">In particular, the Commonwealth is not mandating that the successful tenderer use the workforce of ASC …</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Those two statements appear to be poles apart. So what did Mr Pyne say today? The federal Minister for Defence Industry, Christopher Pyne, said it would be impossible for the government to mandate that the local workforce, such as ASC in Australia, would be employed by the bidder. He said:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">[That] would put the workforce in a ridiculous bargaining position, holding the bidders completely over a barrel.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Mr Pyne said it would be illogical for the bidders to bring a workforce from anywhere else, and he was confident the Australian workers would be employed.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">The wriggling has started. They had an electoral imperative. They had to win an election. As Senator Carr said, they ran a marginal seats campaign. They convinced electors in South Australia that they were on the right track and that ASC—with the addition of Austal, from your own fair state, Acting Deputy President Sterle—would be at the forefront of it. Austal briefed me, as Senator Fawcett has said, and I was impressed. For every ship they build in Australia they build five overseas—for the United States. They were teaming up with ASC and they're not going to be mandated. This government will say, 'Pick whoever you like.' We've got an Australian company, without government assistance, that makes one ship in Australia and five overseas. But we're not going to say, 'You have to look at them.' We're not going to say that they, with the partnership of ASC, are the place to go. We're not going to say that, because, according to Mr Pyne, it would put them in a ridiculous bargaining position.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Mr Pyne goes on to say there is a workforce of 1,800 and there will be a requirement for 5,000. I know some workers at ASC. They're very proud of the work they do, they're very skilled at the work they do, and they understand how shipbuilding works. They understand that the ship is designed, you build it, you trial it and then you move on to the next project. And, like construction workers, they do accept that there are breaks in their tenure. This minister has started wriggling. Really, he's been found out. Otherwise, this would have been all glossed over and they'd have another political disaster like the one they're having this week, where they can't even hold their heads up in parliament. They're the government, their heads are all down, and here we go again. They've been saying one thing and doing another. When the spotlight comes on them, heads go down and wriggling starts. The Hon. Christopher Pyne starts making contradictory statements—four dot points. Read them carefully. Think about it. On one hand, he's saying we'd put the workforce in a ridiculous bargaining position. On the other hand, he's saying there are only 1,800 of them, and we need 5,000. He just goes round and round and round.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">I do take the point from Senator Fawcett that there is good work being done in this space. Intellectual property in Thales and Saab and BAE—all of those things are vital to our state, and they do employ South Australians. But the minister ought to get this one right.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>74</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Leyonhjelm, Sen David</name>
              <name.id>111206</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>LDP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="111206" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator LEYONHJELM</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">16:45</span>):  I hesitate to interrupt this argument between South Australian senators, but we are talking about our money, not South Australia's. The question before us today posed by Senator Xenophon is whether to reinitiate the future frigate tender to permit Australian shipyards to take the lead role in the ship build. There is absolutely no need to do such a thing. There are three companies, SA based, short-listed for the future frigate tender. If we stay on track, the competitive evaluation process will be completed sometime during 2018. As an undeserved perk for South Australians and a threat to taxpayers and our national security, construction will begin in Adelaide in 2020.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">That's too bad. I am alarmed at the estimated $35 billion cost, and I am confident that this price tag will only increase if the tender is reinitiated. The Australian people have already been subjected to the unedifying spectacle of the Future Submarine project being held hostage to the South Australian vote. We could have bought 12 of the Japanese Soryu class submarines, which would have been perfectly adequate for our purposes, for around $20 billion. Building 12 submarines in Australia is simply frittering away $30 billion. That probably works out at around $5 million for every job created, making the new submarine project the most expensive job creation scheme in history. Then again, since I suspect the government's main priority is saving Christopher Pyne's seat, it's probably $30 billion to create just one job. We could have taken a random 10,000 unemployed South Australians and given them each a million dollars for picking up rubbish in Rundle Mall. Even that would have saved the taxpayer $20 billion.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Now Senator Xenophon wants us to do it all again with the future frigates. Is there no end to how far the South Australian snout can go into the taxpayer trough? Why attempt to buy South Australian votes when any amount of money is never enough? How long must we wait for a supposedly Liberal government to adopt a defence procurement policy of buying proven military platforms at the best price, no matter where they are made? Such a policy would save the taxpayers scores of billions of dollars and guarantee the delivery of proven capability on time and on budget. Instead, with muddled aims of job creation and developing domestic industrial capacity, diverting Defence from its primary goal of defending the country, we see constant cost blowouts, delivery delays and performance failures. How many failures like the Collins class submarine and the air warfare destroyer fiasco do we have to suffer before our government realises that the way to create jobs is with tax cuts and deregulation, not subsidising grossly inefficient domestic microindustries?</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Senator Xenophon knows that the future frigate tender will not be reinitiated. He has called for this so that he has something new to complain about and someone else to blame for South Australia's woes. How typical of South Australian politicians.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>75</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Kitching, Sen Kimberley</name>
              <name.id>247512</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="247512" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator KITCHING</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Victoria</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">16:49</span>):  This week has probably felt like an incredibly long week for the government, and we all know the common political maxim 'a week is a long time in politics'. But I would like to take the Senate back to a time which must feel like an absolute aeon ago, and that is last December, when the member for Sturt went on a series of defence industry roadshows which were held in Perth, Brisbane, Darwin, Melbourne, Hobart and Sydney. In those roadshows, he promoted job prospects for major defence projects, specifically including the future frigates program. The Melbourne roadshow, I believe, happened in December.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Contrary to Senator Leyonhjelm's statement that we're only really dealing with South Australia here, Victoria as well is affected. During one of those roadshows, Mr Pyne stated that the future frigate program and the offshore patrol vessel project will directly create over 2,500 jobs for Australians and will indirectly support the jobs of many thousands more. However, to ensure this occurs, it is critical that we provide Australian companies with opportunities to enter the supply chain.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">I now go to today's matter of public importance on the future frigate tender process and to the article that appeared in <span style="font-style:italic;">The Advertiser</span> this morning. A part of the problem, a part of the reason this matter of public importance has arisen and why the article was in <span style="font-style:italic;">The Advertiser</span> today is because unfortunately the Australian public has learnt not to trust the words of this government. So when the government says they are committed to doing anything, people question what that actually means. They're seeking reassurance. For example, they learnt what happened to another shipbuilding project, the Collins Class submarines that Senator Gallagher alluded to already. When there was some concern from the government about ASC, they shut ASC out of that process. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">We have another shipbuilding project, the future frigates project. When the government and Mr Pyne say the government is 'committed', everyone quite rightly asks, 'Well, actually, what does that mean?' This debate is seeking reassurance from the government that in fact they actually say what they mean and that they will be held to account on this project. Imagine being a South Australian and you think there's a shipbuilding plan lauded by the Prime Minister, another person who sometimes doesn't live up to his commitments. You might actually say, 'I don't believe him.' And that is the problem we're discussing here.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">I want to turn to Victoria because Victoria is also affected by this. Victoria has a proud tradition of shipbuilding, particularly in Williamstown. As little as three or four years ago, the Williamstown shipyard employed 1,000 workers. There will be no investment anymore in Williamstown. Where do those people go? What kind of work will they get? The reason that there's concern about the language of the tender document is because those tender documents say one thing and the government says another; there is a discrepancy and an inconsistency between those documents and the government's statements and the promises they make. Where do the Victorian workforce which might be part of a supply chain go? What do they do? Do they look at that article today and say that once again there's been another promise from this government and it's not worth the paper it's written on?</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Senator Birmingham said his colleagues were talking down the state of South Australia. I don't think they are. I think they're merely seeking reassurance that Senator Birmingham's cabinet colleagues have remained true and consistent to the promises they made, and that Australia will be a part of, indeed the main part, of the shipbuilding program. Mr Pyne is quoted as saying in <span style="font-style:italic;">The Advertiser</span><span style="font-style:italic;">— </span><span style="font-style:italic;">(Time expired)</span></span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>76</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <debate.text>
        <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
          <p class="HPS-Debate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Debate">DOCUMENTS</span>
          </p>
        </body>
      </debate.text>
      <subdebate.2>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Consideration</title>
          <page.no>76</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Consideration</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Normal">The following documents tabled earlier today were considered:</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Small">
                <span style="font-weight:bold;" />
                <span style="font-weight:bold;">Government documents</span>
              </span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Small">1. <span style="font-style:italic;">Australian Small Business and Family Enterprise Ombudsman Act 2015</span>—Review of the Australian</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Small">Small Business and Family Enterprise Ombudsman—Report, dated 19 June 2017.</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Small">2. Treaty—<span style="font-style:italic;">Multilateral</span>—Multilateral Convention to Implement Tax Treaty Related Measures to</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Small">Prevent Base Erosion and Profit Shifting (Paris, 7 June 2017)—Text, together with national interest</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Small">analysis.</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Small">
                <span style="font-weight:bold;" />
                <span style="font-weight:bold;">Responses to Senate resolutions</span>
              </span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Small">3. Consumer law—Receipt of communications by post—Resolution agreed to on 14 June 2017—Letter</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Small">to the President of the Senate from the Minister for Communications (Senator Fifield), dated</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Small">10 August 2017.</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
      </subdebate.2>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>76</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <debate.text>
        <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
          <p class="HPS-Debate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Debate">COMMITTEES</span>
          </p>
        </body>
      </debate.text>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Environment and Communications References Committee</title>
          <page.no>76</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Environment and Communications References Committee</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>Additional Information</title>
            <page.no>76</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Additional Information</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>76</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Williams, Sen John</name>
                <name.id>I0V</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party>Nats</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="I0V" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator WILLIAMS</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Nationals Whip in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">16:54</span>):  On behalf of the chair of the Environment and Communications References Committee, Senator Whish-Wilson, I present additional information from the committee on its inquiries into the continuation of construction of the Perth Freight Link and into the recent fires in the remote Tasmanian wilderness.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
        </subdebate.2>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Regulations and Ordinances Committee</title>
          <page.no>76</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Regulations and Ordinances Committee</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>Delegated Legislation Monitor</title>
            <page.no>76</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Delegated Legislation Monitor</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>76</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Williams, Sen John</name>
                <name.id>I0V</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party>Nats</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="I0V" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator WILLIAMS</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Nationals Whip in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">16:55</span>):  As Chair of the Senate Standing Committee on Regulations and Ordinances, I present the Delegated Legislation Monitor No. 10 of 2017.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Ordered that the report be printed.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
        </subdebate.2>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Scrutiny of Bills Committee</title>
          <page.no>76</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Scrutiny of Bills Committee</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>Scrutiny Digest</title>
            <page.no>76</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Scrutiny Digest</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>76</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">O'Neill, Sen Deb</name>
                <name.id>140651</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="140651" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator O'NEILL</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">16:55</span>):  On behalf of Senator Polley, I present <span style="font-style:italic;">Scrutiny Digest</span> No. 9 of 2017 of the Standing Committee for the Scrutiny of Bills.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Ordered that the report be printed.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
        </subdebate.2>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Human Rights Committee</title>
          <page.no>76</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Human Rights Committee</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>Report</title>
            <page.no>76</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Report</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>76</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Williams, Sen John</name>
                <name.id>I0V</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party>Nats</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="I0V" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator WILLIAMS</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Nationals Whip in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">16:56</span>):  On behalf of the chair of the Parliamentary Joint Committee on Human Rights, Mr Goodenough, I present <span style="font-style:italic;">Human rights scrutiny report</span><span style="font-style:italic;">:</span><span style="font-style:italic;"> Report 8 of 2017</span>.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Ordered that the report be printed.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="I0V" type="MemberContinuation">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator WILLIAMS:</span>
                    </a>  I seek leave to have the tabling statement incorporated into <span style="font-style:italic;">Hansard</span>.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Leave granted.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span style="font-style:italic;" />
                    <span style="font-style:italic;">The incorporated speech read as follows—</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">I rise to speak to the tabling of the Parliamentary Joint Committee on Human Rights' <span style="font-style:italic;">Human Rights Scrutiny Report 8 of 2017</span>.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The committee's legislative mandate under section 7(a) of the <span style="font-style:italic;">Human Rights (Parliamentary Scrutiny) Act 2011 </span>requires it to examine the compatibility of recent bills and legislative instruments with Australia's obligations under international human rights law.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The resulting scrutiny report seeks to provide parliament with a credible technical examination of the human rights implications of legislation. In undertaking this examination, the committee receives legal advice in relation to the human rights compatibility of legislation, in which it is supported by an external legal adviser and secretariat staff.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The report does not assess the broader merits or policy objectives of particular measures. Like all parliamentarians, scrutiny committee members may, and often do, have different views in relation to the policy merits of legislation. Committee members performing a scrutiny function are not, and have never been, bound by the contents or conclusions of scrutiny committee reports.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Nine bills in this report were assessed as either promoting human rights, permissibly limiting human rights or not engaging human rights and are therefore listed as raising no human rights concerns.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">As outlined in chapter one of the report, the committee is also seeking further information in relation to four bills. The committee requests additional information where a statement of compatibility has not adequately addressed human rights matters.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The committee has also concluded its examination of four pieces of legislation following correspondence with the relevant minister. The committee's comments for concluding matters are outlined in chapter two of the committee's report.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">I have noted previously that a key role of the committee is to inform the deliberations of parliament by providing a credible technical assessment of the human rights compatibility of legislation.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">In this respect, I would like to highlight that there has been recent commentary about the work of the committee as a mechanism to protect and promote human rights from United Nations processes. The UN Committee on Economic Social and Cultural Rights, in its recent Concluding Observations on Australia, noted the role of the Parliamentary Joint Committee on Human Rights in reporting on human rights scrutiny issues. Further, in relation to broader policy matters, the UN Special Rapporteur on contemporary forms of racism, in his recent report on his mission to Australia, referred to the committee's work on its Inquiry into Freedom of Speech in Australia and Part IIA of the Racial Discrimination Act.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">I encourage my fellow senators and others to examine the report to enhance their understanding of the committee's work.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">With these comments, I commend the committee's Report 8 of 2017 to the Senate.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
            <continue>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>76</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Williams, Sen John</name>
                  <name.id>I0V</name.id>
                  <electorate />
                  <party>Nats</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </continue>
          </speech>
        </subdebate.2>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Intelligence and Security Committee</title>
          <page.no>77</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Intelligence and Security Committee</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>Government Response to Report</title>
            <page.no>77</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Government Response to Report</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>77</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">McGrath, Sen James</name>
                <name.id>217241</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="217241" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator McGRATH</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Assistant Minister to the Prime Minister</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">16:56</span>):  I present the government's response to the report of the Parliamentary Joint Committee on Intelligence and Security on its inquiry into <span style="font-style:italic;">Review of Administration and Expenditure No.14 (2014-15)</span>. I seek leave to have the document incorporated in <span style="font-style:italic;">Hansard</span>.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Leave granted.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span style="font-style:italic;" />
                    <span style="font-style:italic;">The document read as follows—</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;" />
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">Australian Government response to the Joint Committee on Intelligence and Security report: Review of Administration and Expenditure No.14 (2014</span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">‑2015)</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;" />
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">August 2017</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;" />
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">Response to the recommendation</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;" />
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">Recommendation 1. </span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The Committee recommends that, in line with the recommendations of the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet’s January 2015 Review of Australia’s Counter-Terrorism Machinery, the efficiency dividend be removed from all Australian Security Intelligence Organisation, Australian Secret Intelligence Service and Australian Federal Police operations.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;" />
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">Noted</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The Government is committed to transforming the way services are delivered and how government operates to create a smaller, smarter and more productive, sustainable public sector, better positioned to respond to the challenges of a rapidly changing environment and the continued need for fiscal discipline.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The efficiency dividend framework has been an integral part of successive governments' efforts to drive public service efficiencies and it remains an important element of the Government's broader efficiency strategy. Since, 2013 the efficiency dividend has driven reform to inefficient programs and practices among Commonwealth Government agencies, following a period of strong public expenditure growth, and it continues to provide an ongoing incentive for agencies to operate efficiently and make further productivity gains.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">In the 2016-17 Budget, the Government announced that it will reduce the size of the efficiency dividend over the forward estimates and support ongoing public sector transformation through partial re-investment of relevant savings into reforms that increase productivity and innovation in the public sector. In the 2017-18 Budget, the Government announced the specific initiatives that would be allocated funding from the $500 million available from the Modernisation Fund for reforms that deliver quality government services at lower cost and use leading technology and collaborate approaches to address complex problems facing society. Further information on key individual elements of the Fund and other elements of the Government efficiency initiatives are outlined in the <span style="font-style:italic;">2017-18 Budget, Agency Resourcing Budget Paper No. 4</span>.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The Government is committed to a safe and secure Australia and notes that the impact of the efficiency dividend on the Australian Federal Police (AFP), Australian Security Intelligence Organisation (ASIO) and Australian Secret Intelligence Service (ASIS) over the last decade has been materially outweighed by significant funding growth.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">As outlined in the 2017-18 Budget, the Government has invested an additional $321.4 million to bolster the capability of the AFP. This represents the largest single funding boost for the AFP's domestic policing capabilities in a decade.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The Government also announced in the 2017-18 Budget additional funding to support the operations of ASIO and ASIS to strengthen their capacity to meet the strategic priorities and objectives of the Organisations and the Government.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">As part of the 2016-17 Mid-Year Economic and Fiscal Update, the Government provided the AFP:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-SmallBullet" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SmallBullet">$62.3 million over five years to enhance its technical security capabilities. Funding provided for advanced closed circuit television systems, personal issue communication devices and for enterprise data management. The cost of this measure was partially offset from within the AFP's existing resources; and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-SmallBullet" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SmallBullet">$60.7 million over four years to enhance the tracking and detection of illegal firearms on our streets and the importation of illegal firearms into Australia.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">As part of the 2016-17 Budget, the Government provided $148.5 million over five years to the AFP for additional Protective Security Officers, upgraded physical and personnel security and a scoping study for enhanced protective technical capabilities.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">As part of the 2015-16 Budget, the Government provided $295.8 million over six years (and $47.1 million per annum ongoing) to strengthen capabilities of ASIS including upgrading its ICT systems.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">As part of the 2014-15 Mid-Year Economic and Fiscal Update, the Government provided additional funding to several Commonwealth agencies of $649.9 million over four years for a range of counter-terrorism activities, providing security and intelligence agencies with resources and legislative powers to combat the terrorist threat. The additional funding provided to agencies extended beyond the forward estimates, forming part of agencies' ongoing base funding.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The additional funding strengthened monitoring and disruption activities in Australia and overseas; increased intelligence collection and threat assessment capabilities; enhanced border protection; improved technical capabilities; and provided resources to engage those at risk of radicalisation. The package included $126.3 million over four years for ASIS, $196.1 million over four years for ASIO and $77.3 million over four years for the AFP.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
        </subdebate.2>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Community Affairs References Committee, Finance and Public Administration References Committee, Joint Statutory Committee on Law Enforcement</title>
          <page.no>78</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p>
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Community Affairs References Committee</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Finance and Public Administration References Committee</span>
              </p>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Joint Statutory Committee on Law Enforcement</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>Membership</title>
            <page.no>78</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Membership</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>78</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Leyonhjelm, Sen David (The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>10000</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party>LDP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="111206" type="OfficeSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-OfficeSpeech">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT </span>
                    </a>
                    <span class="HPS-GeneralBold">(</span>
                    <span class="HPS-OfficeSpeech">Senator Leyonhjelm</span>
                    <span class="HPS-GeneralBold">)</span> (<span class="HPS-Time">16:57</span>):  Order! The President has received letters requesting changes in the membership of various committees.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>78</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">McGrath, Sen James</name>
                <name.id>217241</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="217241" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator McGRATH</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Assistant Minister to the Prime Minister</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">16:58</span>):  by leave—I move:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;" />That senators be discharged from and appointed to committees as follows:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;" />
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">Community Affairs References Committee—</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:21.3pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Appointed—</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:28.35pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Substitute member: Senator Polley to replace Senator Dastyari for the committee’s inquiry into aged care assessment and accreditation</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:28.35pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Participating member: Senator Dastyari</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;" />
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">Finance and Public Administration References Committee—</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:21.3pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Appointed—</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:28.35pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Substitute member: Senator Pratt to replace Senator Kitching for the committee’s inquiry into the arrangements for the postal survey concerning same-sex marriage on 17 August 2017</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:28.35pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Participating member: Senator Kitching</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;" />
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">Law Enforcement—Joint Statutory Committee—</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:21.3pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Discharged—</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:28.35pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Senator O’Sullivan, on 16 August 2017</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:28.35pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Senator Bushby, on 2 October 2017</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:21.3pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Appointed—</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:28.35pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Senator Bushby, from 17 August 2017</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:28.35pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Senator O’Sullivan, from 3 October 2017</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Question agreed to.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
        </subdebate.2>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>BILLS</title>
        <page.no>79</page.no>
        <type>BILLS</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <debate.text>
        <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
          <p class="HPS-Debate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Debate">BILLS</span>
          </p>
        </body>
      </debate.text>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Public Governance and Resources Legislation Amendment Bill (No. 1) 2017, Treasury Laws Amendment (2017 Measures No. 4) Bill 2017</title>
          <page.no>79</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p>
              <a href="r5920" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Public Governance and Resources Legislation Amendment Bill (No. 1) 2017</span>
                </p>
              </a>
            </p>
            <a href="r5922" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Treasury Laws Amendment (2017 Measures No. 4) Bill 2017</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>First Reading</title>
            <page.no>79</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">First Reading</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Bills received from the House of Representatives.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>79</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">McGrath, Sen James</name>
                <name.id>217241</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="217241" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator McGRATH</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Assistant Minister to the Prime Minister</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">16:59</span>):  I indicate to the Senate that these bills are being introduced together. After debate on the motion for the second reading has been adjourned, I shall move a motion to have the bills listed separately on the <span style="font-style:italic;">Notice Paper</span>. I move:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">That these bills may proceed without formalities, may be taken together and be now read a first time.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Question agreed to.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Bills read a first time.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
        </subdebate.2>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>79</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Second Reading</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>79</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">McGrath, Sen James</name>
                <name.id>217241</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="217241" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator McGRATH</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Assistant Minister to the Prime Minister</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">17:00</span>):  I move:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">That these bills be now read a second time.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I seek leave to have the second reading speeches incorporated in <span style="font-style:italic;">Hansard</span>.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Leave granted.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span style="font-style:italic;" />
                    <span style="font-style:italic;">The speeches read as follows—</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="text-align:center;direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">PUBLIC GOVERNANCE AND RESOURCES LEGISLATION AMENDMENT BILL (NO. 1) 2017</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="text-align:center;direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Second Reading Speech</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The Public Governance and Resources Legislation Amendment Bill (No. 1) 2017 (the Bill) if enacted would amend 13 pieces of Commonwealth legislation to harmonise relevant provisions with the <span style="font-style:italic;">Public Governance, Performance and Accountability Act 2013 </span>(PGPA Act) and the Commonwealth's broader resource management framework.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The Bill ensures improved consistency between other Acts and the PGPA Act that aims to put in place the legislative underpinnings of an integrated system that promotes high standards of governance, performance and accountability. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Under this simplified financial framework, officials within Commonwealth entities will have the flexibility and incentives to adopt appropriate systems and processes that help them to achieve diverse policy and statutory objectives efficiently and effectively. They will also be held to high standards of accountability through a more explicit framework for monitoring and evaluating performance. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">This Bill makes amendments to:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-SmallBullet" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SmallBullet">consistently prescribe listed entities for the purposes of the PGPA Act within entities' enabling legislation; </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-SmallBullet" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SmallBullet">repeal provisions covering issues now provided for by the PGPA Act, such as disclosure of interests and annual reporting requirements; and </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-SmallBullet" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SmallBullet">update references in legislation from the <span style="font-style:italic;">Financial Management and Accountability Act 1997 </span>and the <span style="font-style:italic;">Commonwealth Authorities and Companies Act 1997</span> to the PGPA Act.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The Bill also contains minor amendments to legislation consequential to the sale of Medibank Private Limited in 2014. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">I commend the Bill.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="text-align:center;direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">TREASURY LAWS AMENDMENT (2017 MEASURES NO. 4) BILL 2017</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="text-align:center;direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">SECOND READING SPEECH</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Today, I introduce a bill to implement two Government measures.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Schedule 1 of this Bill, introduces changes to address integrity concerns with the wine equalisation tax rebate and better target support to small Australian wine producers as originally intended. The changes in this Bill are part of the continuing efforts of the Government to strengthen the integrity of Australia's tax system.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The wine equalisation tax rebate supports the Australian wine industry by providing wine producers with access to a tax rebate on sales of eligible wine. Through consultation, industry told us that the wine equalisation tax rebate has encouraged some businesses to alter their structures to maximise rebate claims and has been the target of rorting. These behaviours have contributed to distortions in the wine market, and necessitated urgent reform. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">To that end, Schedule 1 of this Bill introduces a number of integrity measures, and lowers the rebate cap, to ensure the rebate is benefiting its intended recipients. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The rebate cap will be reduced from $500,000 to $350,000 on 1 July 2018, and remain at that level ongoing. The lower cap will better target the rebate to smaller wine producers.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">To strengthen integrity, eligibility for the rebate will be changed. A wine producer will need to own at least 85 per cent of the grapes used to make the wine throughout the winemaking process. This will address schemes where the rebate is being claimed multiple times on the same parcel of wine.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Wine producers will be required to sell wine packaged in a container not exceeding five litres and branded with a registered trademark. Containers for traditional cider and pear cider, which can also access the rebate, must not exceed </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">51 litres.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Transitional eligibility arrangements will apply to allow producers sufficient time to adjust to the changes.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Claims will also be better linked to the payment of the wine equalisation tax to address schemes where the rebate is being claimed on wine that is ultimately sold for export. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Schedule 1 of this Bill will better target the rebate to wine producers with proven investment in the industry, regional areas and brands and reduce distortions in the wine industry, putting the industry in a stronger long term position.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The measures contained in this Bill are just a part of the Government's efforts to support a strong and sustainable Australian wine industry. The Government is also providing $50 million over four years to the Australian Grape and Wine Authority to promote Australian wine. In addition the Government is introducing a wine tourism and cellar door grant programme in 2018-19, to allow producers who exceed their cap to access a grant of up to $100,000 for their cellar door sales.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Schedule 2 of this Bill amends the <span style="font-style:italic;">Income Tax Assessment Act 1997 </span>to provide income tax relief to superannuation funds who are transferring the account balances of their members as they transition to the MySuper rules. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The MySuper reforms introduced new, low-cost superannuation products with a simple set of features to allow members to more easily compare between products and to ensure that members don't pay for any features they do not need or use. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Superannuation funds have been able to provide MySuper products since 1July 2013. As part of the transition to the new rules, funds are required to transfer the existing balances of their default members to MySuper compliant products by 1 July 2017. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">When superannuation funds are transferring these balances, and the assets which support these balances, tax liabilities could arise on the transfer. This tax payable would reduce the balance of the member.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">This outcome would work against the rationale of the MySuper rules. Transition to the low cost products should improve retirement outcomes for members, not leave them with an unavoidable tax bill which reduces their account balances.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Tax relief is currently available for those superannuation funds that transfer their default members to a different fund. An asset-roll over is available, which defers the income tax which would otherwise be payable on the transfer. However, this tax relief hasn't been available where the member transfers to a MySuper product with their existing superannuation provider. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">This measure will extend the tax relief, providing an asset roll-over for mandatory transfers of balances and assets to MySuper products within the same superannuation fund. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">This will ensure equity between those members which move to a new fund provider, and those that take up new products with their existing provider. It also makes sure that members' balances are not negatively impacted by tax liabilities when their balances are moved, working to maximise their retirement savings. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Full details of these measures are contained in the explanatory memorandum. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Debate adjourned.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Ordered that the bills be listed on the <span style="font-style:italic;">Notice Paper</span> as separate orders of the day.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
        </subdebate.2>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>FIRST SPEECH</title>
        <page.no>80</page.no>
        <type>FIRST SPEECH</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <debate.text>
        <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
          <p class="HPS-Debate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Debate">FIRST SPEECH</span>
          </p>
        </body>
      </debate.text>
      <speech>
        <talk.start>
          <talker>
            <page.no>80</page.no>
            <time.stamp />
            <name role="metadata">PRESIDENT, The</name>
            <name.id>10000</name.id>
            <electorate />
            <party />
            <in.gov />
            <first.speech />
          </talker>
        </talk.start>
        <talk.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Normal">
                <a href="e5v" type="OfficeSpeech">
                  <span class="HPS-OfficeSpeech">The PRESIDENT</span>
                </a> (<span class="HPS-Time">17:00</span>):  In that case, it being after 5 pm and pursuant to order, before I call Senator Georgiou, I remind honourable senators of the convention that the senator will be heard in silence for his first speech. </span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </talk.text>
      </speech>
      <speech>
        <talk.start>
          <talker>
            <page.no>80</page.no>
            <time.stamp />
            <name role="metadata">Georgiou, Sen Peter</name>
            <name.id>269583</name.id>
            <electorate />
            <party>PHON</party>
            <in.gov />
            <first.speech />
          </talker>
        </talk.start>
        <talk.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Normal">
                <a href="269583" type="MemberSpeech">
                  <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator GEORGIOU</span>
                </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Western Australia</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">17:01</span>):  President and senators, I stand here today blessed, because it truly is an honour to speak in this chamber, in this moment of history. To serve my nation in the federal parliament and represent the views and attitudes of the great people of Western Australia is indeed a privilege, and one that I am looking forward to serving to the utmost. </span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Normal">I'd like to begin by thanking Senator Hanson, leader of Pauline Hanson's One Nation who, through her courage, persistence and strength of character, has brought about a significant and better change in Australian politics. Senator Hanson's popular appeal to mainstream Australians is the reason why there are now four senators in this chamber, representing three states, flying the flag for One Nation. I am very proud to have joined this chamber with my party leader and fellow party senators: Brian Burston and Malcolm Roberts. </span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Normal">I would also like to acknowledge and pay tribute to my parents who raised me and sheltered me, with good old fashion values. Despite the rumours, I was not born in Athens Greece, but in Perth, Western Australia on 13 January 1974 to Greek migrants, Dimitrios and Margarita Georgiou. It is well known that Greece is the birthplace of democracy and has laid the foundation for modern civilisation. As a loyal and patriotic Western Australian, I shall always be proud of my Greek heritage.</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Normal">Like many new Australians of the day, my father flew here in the early seventies, leaving behind a wife and two young daughters in Athens, to try to build a better life in this new land of opportunity. Shortly after arriving in Western Australia, my father started working in WA's North-West, namely Dampier and Port Hedland. His knowledge of the English language was limited but he quickly took steps to improve his English by purchasing a record player and a set of how-to-learn-English records. Living more than 12,000 kilometres from his family, that bit of audio kept him company night after night. My father would not see my mother and my sisters for another two years while working under a scorching North-West sun, as an electrician on the iron ore mines. However, by then he had saved enough money to bring out his family and start living the 'great Australian dream'. That dream, of course, was buying your own home. </span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Normal">For my parents, Australia was the land of opportunity, one where they could raise a family, especially after experiencing life under a military junta for several years in Greece. When my mother and sisters moved to Australia to join my father, I was born soon after, and my younger brother, Michael, 23 months later. That hard work ethic employed by my parents was instilled in me from a young age, which I copied as best I could. As a result, after starting out as an apprentice electrician, I was able to build a successful small business called Georgiou Electrical Services—I thought I'd put that in as a free plug—which employed apprentices and tradesmen along the way, doing my bit for the state and its economy. I accomplished this by working seven days a week, many times working 12 hours a day to build a successful business, and at the same time developed a strong relationship with my clients. I am happy to say that, 17 years on, these clients still remain loyal to the business. I've worked hard and I've been able to reap the rewards as well. For me, that's what being Australian means: working hard, having a fair go and paving the way for other people to have a fair go.</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Normal">As a proud West Australian, it will be my mission to wave WA's flag at every possible opportunity to make sure my constituents are never forgotten by the federal government. My mission in politics will include a strong push for a better GST deal for Western Australia; making sure multinational companies pay their due taxes; keeping the banks honest and pushing for a royal commission or an independent tribunal to help compensate victims who've been dealt with harshly by the banks; a push for more apprenticeships and traineeships; helping to keep down the cost of living for all Australian families; cutting red tape for small business; stamping out political corruption in all its forms; tackling antisocial behaviour; and relieving welfare dependency. As you may have noted, my theme is about jobs and security. I want to ensure all Australians first and foremost are given the opportunity to fulfil their dreams just like this great country of ours has given me. </span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Normal">For the past 10 years, WA has been getting ripped off to the point it now only gets 34 cents in the dollar as part of its GST distribution. In simple terms, Western Australia only gets $878 per capita from the GST distribution. The average is $2,543. Now, we all agree that is not fair. Today I'm calling on the federal government to abolish horizontal fiscal equalisation, which is the formula used to calculate the GST. It's out of date and irrelevant. The GST pool should provide each state with not less than 70 per cent of its proportionate share of GST.</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Normal">When it comes to oil giants paying their fair share of tax, the Commonwealth is letting us down. Some oil giants working off Australia's north-west coast are avoiding paying the government billions of dollars, because of another outdated, irrelevant law.</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Normal">In my 160 days in Australian politics—which isn't much—I have been inundated by scores of farmers and small businesses who have been telling me very similar stories. They've been squeezed out of their livelihood and are finding it hard to make a living. The Select Committee on Lending to Primary Production Customers, chaired by my colleague Malcolm Roberts, has been told many stories of growers across the land who've lost their livelihoods due to heavy-handed approaches from the banks. Last week I attended one of those hearings in Sydney and I was shocked at what I heard. Today I want to tell these banks the days of being the bully are over. The days of calling the shots and ruining the lives of ordinary, hardworking Australians are numbered.</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Normal">Australia needs a strong banking sector, but being strong also means being trustworthy. Banks were supposed to partner with their customers to increase business productivity, and in return the customers pay money to their banking partner. But what we have now is banks taking money from the customers by unethical means, leaving the customers destitute. The banks are making money at the expense of the productive sectors of the economy. This is simply immoral.</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Normal">What does Australia do about executive-level corporate misconduct? Do we close our eyes, pretend it doesn't exist and leave these executives in these positions to continue to harm Australians, or do we hold them accountable? It is not the banking royal commission that will harm Australia's reputation. It is the failure not to call a banking royal commission that will harm Australia's reputation. We can't afford to continue cover-ups of misconduct by the bankers. It is only once these executives face the law that confidence will return back to the financial sector.</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Normal">My business has been operating for the past 17 years. I have experienced at first hand the problems which face all small businesses. One reason I am proud of my business is that we have always understood the importance of apprenticeships. Apprenticeships uniquely provide opportunities for young people to get a start in life; to combine academic work and practical, on-the-job training; to become professionally qualified; to start their own business, if they wish; and to contribute to the prosperity of our state and nation. The great success of mining in Western Australia has been facilitated in a major way by experts in a wide range of trades who began their careers as apprentices. I encourage senators to accept that, whatever the task, it is always preferable to engage the services of a highly trained Australian, rather than come up with a formula for bringing guest workers into this country because we may lack trained people.</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Normal">Yes, it is true: I assisted in the permanent residence of a Sri Lankan national some months ago. But what people failed to understand was that he had been working in Kalgoorlie-Boulder for six years and already had his eldest daughter studying at a university in Perth. It was a special case and it reflected the need where certain overseas skills were badly needed in the absence of local experience.</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Normal">I invite senators to use their influence with state governments to encourage the adoption of One Nation's progressive policy for encouraging apprenticeships. That policy is very simple: a 75 per cent wage subsidy in the first year, a 50 per cent wage subsidy in the second year and a 25 per cent wage subsidy in the third year.</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Normal">I remind the Senate that Australia cannot function properly unless we train good people who are qualified and competent to perform the vital tasks which keep the nation functioning. How often have you heard anyone ask, 'Where can I find a good archaeologist at eight o'clock on a Saturday night?' Not often, I would have thought. We have a lot to be thankful for when it comes to tradies. If your air conditioner, fridge and gas heater work, thank a tradie. Most importantly, if your toilet flushes, thank a tradie. If your hair is stylish, thank a tradie. And, if all the electrical works in your house work properly, thank a sparkie.</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Normal">A very welcome trend is that increasing numbers of young women are entering trades which have historically been male dominated. This can only be a good thing. In case there are Australians who have not thanked tradies enough for their contribution, I want to express my sincere thanks to all the tradies of Australia, to all the employers who took them on as apprentices and to all the TAFE teachers, who every day share their knowledge.</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Normal">Recently, I called for an end to foreign political donations. I believe this move will help stop political corruption from overseas, but we should also be vigilant and stamp it out on the domestic front. What I've seen in my short time in parliament is that, clearly, some forms of corruption are frowned upon, while on other occasions we turn a blind eye. This must stop. No matter the ideology of the political party, it should be parliament's mantra to expose all forms of corruption across a wide range of industry sectors. The government wants to clamp down on corruption within the building industry. That's fine, but what about white collar crime?</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Normal">In recent weeks I've heard the outgoing WA police commissioner Karl O'Callaghan speak about the violence, sexual abuse and antisocial behaviour in WA's north-west. Commissioner O'Callaghan has called for an extension to the cashless debit card system in the town of Port Hedland, which I support, as well as the implementation of the scheme to the Goldfields. The card operates like an ATM card, quarantining 80 per cent of welfare funding for food and staples while the other 20 per cent of the welfare funding can be accessed as a cash component. I recently met representatives from people in Wyndham and Ceduna who praised the cashless card and described how it has made positive impacts on families, tourism and the general vibe in each of these towns.</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Normal">Contrast that with information I received from the town of Leonora this week, where I am told less than 60 per cent of the 100 children enrolled in the school attend each day. The community there has introduced breakfast clubs and a range of other measures to ensure children receive the right daily nutrition to be attentive in readiness for school each morning. Leonora is 830 kilometres east of Perth and has called on the federal government to roll out the cashless debit card. Community representatives have told me that scrutinising welfare payments under the cashless debit card approach could be beneficial towards helping to lift school attendance and curb antisocial behaviour in the town.</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Normal">I visited WA's Goldfields region recently. Community leaders there are desperate to have this scheme in their towns. The local police officer in Leonora this week is taking matters into his own hands by doing the school pick-up in the school bus, because no-one else in the town has a licence to drive the vehicle. These communities do whatever they can with what they have, but they need help and they need it fast. We have a world first in the form of the cashless debit card, and we should roll it out to better manage welfare dependency and protect our children from violence and abuse.</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Normal">Before I conclude, I will turn my attention to an issue which is causing several problems across the country. Just like anyone, I enjoy a drink and having a punt on Melbourne Cup Day or the occasional bet at the casino, but, for hundreds of thousands of Australian gamblers, what starts out as a punt becomes an addiction and turns into a life of ruin. Did you know that Australians spend over $22 billion a year on gambling and that the average gambler loses $21,000 per year? The social costs and social harm are even greater. Research from the Department of Social Services shows that children with parents who are problem gamblers are up to 10 times more likely to become problem gamblers themselves and that the social and economic cost is estimated to be between $4.7 billion and $8.4 billion a year.</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Normal">Today I am calling for the establishment of a national body to act as a one-stop shop with the aim of preventing, treating and intervening to stop gambling harm. Such a national body could be funded with the implementation of a national wagering tax, which the South Australian government has already introduced off its own back this year. However, a national approach to help prevent and to intervene in problem gambling and to treat problem gamblers could go a long way in minimising the social cost. The imposition of a national wagering tax has been supported by some sectors of the industry, and money generated could be funnelled back into a national framework to counsel and mentor problem gamblers across the continent. Let me stress: I am not antigambling, but I would like to see all this money being thrown around put to good use under the one banner.</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Normal">Before I sign off, I would like to acknowledge all the victims of domestic violence, in particular the Australian Brotherhood of Fathers, who've reached out to me on social media in recent days regarding domestic violence and men's suicide. Domestic violence has no place in our society, and I am happy to help spread the message where I can. My door is always open to help wipe this out from our society.</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Normal">I shall conclude by making further reference to democracy. The Athenians invented the wonderful system of sortition to choose public officials by lot. Sortition ensured that there would never be a political class, and each citizen was encouraged to be well informed in preparation for the possibility of holding office. The senators from One Nation are not members of a political class. The Senate is a house of review, and I will work with my fellow One Nation senators to bring about constructive change that will improve the lives of ordinary Australians. We need honest, open, accountable government and policies that will make this great country of ours even better. Thank you for listening to my first speech.</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </talk.text>
      </speech>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Migration Amendment (Validation of Decisions) Bill 2017</title>
          <page.no>83</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <a href="r5926" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Migration Amendment (Validation of Decisions) Bill 2017</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>First Reading</title>
            <page.no>83</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">First Reading</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Bill received from the House of Representatives.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>83</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Cormann, Sen Mathias</name>
                <name.id>HDA</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="HDA" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CORMANN</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Western Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for Finance and Deputy Leader of the Government in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">17:21</span>):  I move:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">That this bill may proceed without formalities and be now read a first time.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Question agreed to.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Bill read a first time.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
        </subdebate.2>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>83</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Second Reading</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>83</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Cormann, Sen Mathias</name>
                <name.id>HDA</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="HDA" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CORMANN</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Western Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for Finance and Deputy Leader of the Government in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">17:21</span>):  I move:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">That this bill be now read a second time.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I seek leave to have the second reading speech incorporated in <span style="font-style:italic;">Hansard</span>.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Leave granted.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span style="font-style:italic;" />
                    <span style="font-style:italic;">The speech read as follows—</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="text-align:center;direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">MIGRATION AMENDMENT (VALIDATION OF DECISIONS) BILL 2017</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="text-align:center;direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">SECOND READING SPEECH</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">This Government takes its role to protect the Australian community very seriously. For the protection of the Australian community, it is essential that a Government can take action where non-citizens in Australia do not abide by the law and engage in criminal activity.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">It is a privilege for non-citizens to enter and stay in Australia - not a right. The Australian community expects that the Australian Government can and should have the ability to cancel visas of those who do not abide by Australian laws.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">In late 2014, this Government strengthened the character provisions of the Migration Act, making it mandatory to cancel a visa if a non-citizen does not pass the character test. Since those changes, I have cancelled the visas of over 2,600 non-citizen criminals, including more than 140 organised crime figures.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The purpose of this Bill is to uphold the visa cancellations, and application refusals, on character grounds of certain non-citizens who have committed crimes in Australia and pose a risk to the Australian community. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Specifically, this Bill amends the <span style="font-style:italic;">Migration Act 1958 </span>(the Act) to preserve existing section 501 character decisions which have relied on information that is protected from disclosure under section 503A of the Act.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-SmallBullet" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SmallBullet">These amendments will not apply to cases where people have had a visa application refused or a visa cancelled based on information protected from disclosure, and they have had their cases either fully heard, or finally determined, by a court before the amendments come into operation.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Section 503A of the Act protects information from disclosure when it is provided to the Department of Immigration and Border Protection by gazetted law enforcement or intelligence agencies to support a section 501 character visa application refusal or cancellation decision.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-SmallBullet" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SmallBullet">This protects the information from disclosure to a court, tribunal, a parliament or parliamentary committee or any other body or person.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The measures in this Bill are in response to current proceedings in the High Court of Australia, in which the validity of section 503A is being challenged.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">In practice, law enforcement and intelligence agencies will only provide information to the Department because it can be protected from disclosure. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Successful strategies to counter crime necessitate that agencies like the Australian Federal Police, the Australian Criminal Intelligence Agency and the Australian Security Intelligence Organisation (ASIO) are able to share information on the activities of non-citizen criminals with the Department of Immigration and Border Protection, while their intelligence and sources remain protected. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Protected information has informed many character decisions involving, for example, outlaw motorcycle gang members. Without the information supplied by the intelligence agencies, these criminals may have kept their visas and been free to continue their illicit activities.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">I make no apologies for using every means at my disposal to keep the Australian community safe.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Should the High Court find any part of section 503A invalid, there is a real risk that such an outcome could result in several non-citizens of serious character concern being released from immigration detention into the Australian community, or being allowed to return to Australia where they are currently offshore.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">This would present an unacceptable risk to the Australian community and would understandably undermine public confidence in the integrity of Australia's migration framework.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The amendments in this Bill proactively address the risk to the safety of Australians and reflect the Government and the Australian community's low tolerance for criminal behaviour by those who are given the privilege of holding a visa to enter into and stay in Australia.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">All those who support tough measures to protect the Australian community from non-citizens who break the law should support this Bill.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>  In accordance with standing order 115(3) further consideration of this bill is now adjourned until 4 September 2017.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
            <interjection>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>84</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">PRESIDENT, The</name>
                  <name.id>10000</name.id>
                  <electorate />
                  <party />
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </interjection>
          </speech>
        </subdebate.2>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>84</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <debate.text>
        <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
          <p class="HPS-Debate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Debate">COMMITTEES</span>
          </p>
        </body>
      </debate.text>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Joint Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade</title>
          <page.no>84</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Joint Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>Membership</title>
            <page.no>84</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Membership</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Message received from the House of Representatives notifying the Senate of the appointment of Mr Ted O'Brien to the Joint Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade in place of Mr Wood.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
        </subdebate.2>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>BILLS</title>
        <page.no>84</page.no>
        <type>BILLS</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <debate.text>
        <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
          <p class="HPS-Debate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Debate">BILLS</span>
          </p>
        </body>
      </debate.text>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Competition and Consumer Amendment (Misuse of Market Power) Bill 2017</title>
          <page.no>84</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <a href="r5788" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Competition and Consumer Amendment (Misuse of Market Power) Bill 2017</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>Returned from the House of Representatives</title>
            <page.no>84</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Returned from the House of Representatives</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Message received from the House of Representatives agreeing to the amendment made by the Senate to the bill.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
        </subdebate.2>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Fair Work Amendment (Protecting Vulnerable Workers) Bill 2017</title>
          <page.no>84</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <a href="r5826" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Fair Work Amendment (Protecting Vulnerable Workers) Bill 2017</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>In Committee</title>
            <page.no>84</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">In Committee</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Consideration resumed.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>84</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">TEMPORARY CHAIR, The</name>
                <name.id>10000</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="00AOP" type="OfficeSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-OfficeSpeech">The TEMPORARY CHAIR </span>
                    </a>
                    <span class="HPS-GeneralBold">(</span>
                    <span class="HPS-OfficeSpeech">Senator Marshall</span>
                    <span class="HPS-GeneralBold">)</span> (<span class="HPS-Time">17:23</span>):  The committee is considering the Fair Work Amendment (Protecting Vulnerable Workers) Bill, and the question is that amendment (21), amendments (24) to (27) and amendment (35) on sheet 8144 moved by Senator Cameron be agreed to.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span style="font-style:italic;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-style:italic;">(Quorum formed)</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>84</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Cameron, Sen Doug</name>
                <name.id>AI6</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="AI6" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CAMERON</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">17:25</span>):  To recap where we were up to, we were dealing with amendments (21), (24) to (27) and (35) on sheet 8144.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The TEMPORARY CHAIR:</span>  Minister?</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
            <interjection>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>84</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">TEMPORARY CHAIR, The</name>
                  <name.id>10000</name.id>
                  <electorate />
                  <party />
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </interjection>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>85</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Cash, Sen Michaelia</name>
                <name.id>I0M</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="I0M" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CASH</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Western Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister Assisting the Prime Minister for the Public Service, Minister for Employment and Minister for Women</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">17:25</span>):  Could I just confirm, Chair, that these are the amendments in relation to prospective employees and the application of the cashback provision.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>85</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Cameron, Sen Doug</name>
                <name.id>AI6</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="AI6" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CAMERON</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">17:26</span>):  These go to extending the application of the prohibition of unreasonable demands for money by employers to prospective employees. Yes. There was a bit of discussion, and some questions were put to me by Senator Xenophon, on how this would work, and there were some concerns that it may be a problem for some businesses.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">We had some submissions to the inquiry, and I think the submission that was important, in terms of this issue of the unreasonable demands made to prospective employees, came from WEstjustice. I draw Senator Xenophon's attention to that submission. I will just take you through some of the issues that WEstjustice raised in relation to this very issue. The submission says this:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">In addition to traditional underpayment or non-payment of wages and 'cash-back' schemes requiring unreasonable payments to an employer, WEstjustice has recently seen the emergence of employers claiming to be able to offer work in return for a vulnerable worker paying them an initial upfront fee and/or expending money on vehicles or equipment. In most circumstances, the job never eventuates and the vulnerable workers are left with the difficult task of trying to recover their funds.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">There were a couple of case studies, and one was Dugung's. It says:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Dugung paid $10,500 to his employer for training to become a cleaner. He was told he would complete 10 days of training and once training was complete, that he would start work. He was promised a weekly income of $2600.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">After 10 days of training, Dugung was told that he did not have a job as there was not enough work for him. His boss made two refund payments to him, one of $4500 and one of $3000. When Dugung asked for the remaining $3000 he was told that this money had been deducted for training costs.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Dugung was not paid for his training and came to see Western CLC for advice on getting his money back.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The next case study was Tanvir's. It says:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Tanvir found an advertisement for plastering work on a popular trading website. The employer told him he would need to pay $2500 as bond for the work vehicle and to the access for the building site. Tanir met the employer and paid the $2500 in cash. The employer told him he would get the contract on his first day of work.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">After a week, Tanvir had still had not heard from the employer so he called him a number of times. The employer did not respond at all and has now disappeared.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The employer disappeared with this poor potential employee's $2½ thousand. Quan was another one they indicated:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Quan was working as a courier. He was offered work but he was told he was required to pay $15,000 to the employer for a "run" (opportunity to work). Quan signed a contract which guaranteed $2000 per week income. Quan paid the $15,000 and signed the contract. However, the employer only paid him about $1000 per week and he was still owed $5000 in wages.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">After a lawyer assisted Quan to draft a letter of demand for both the unpaid wages and the $15,000 he had paid for the work, the employer gave him a cheque for $15,000; however when Quan banked the cheque it was dishonoured. The employer then began repaying the debt by installments, however this too stopped after two installments.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">My view is that these are the tip of the iceberg out there. As per this submission to the inquiry, they say reforms are needed to assist employees or prospective employees in this situation and to deter this kind of behaviour from employers. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">This is just one legal firm who are looking after some migrant workers and workers who are being exploited, and these are the issues that it is raising. That's why Labor is of the view that the amendments we are putting forward, to extend the application of this prohibition of unreasonable demands for money by an employer, should be expanded to prospective employees. These are the practical examples we're trying to deal with, and, Senator Xenophon, if I'm correct, your concern was that it might be onerous and too wideranging. That's not the view of the people in these legal services that are dealing with some of the most exploited workers in the country. We would ask you and all of the crossbench to turn your minds to this issue: the principle that once you are an employee you can get some protection, but if you're a prospective employee then it's open slather on you by an unjust employer and they can steal money from you. This is the appropriate place to deal with it because the principle is the same. It's only a question of timing whether you're a prospective employee or employer. Senator Xenophon, that's the issue and some of the examples that you asked for. </span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>85</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Xenophon, Sen Nick</name>
                <name.id>8IV</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party>NXT</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="8IV" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator XENOPHON</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">17:33</span>):  Thank you to Senator Cameron for setting out those case studies, which I found very useful. I would like to indicate to Senator Cameron and to the government that, on balance, I think this is a good and beneficial amendment. The examples that Senator Cameron gave cannot be ignored. I have concerns about some of the other amendments, about their practicality and workability, but I think this amendment is a good one in respect of prospective employees. There is a safeguard in respect of the test for reasonableness. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I have only one caveat, and I just want to put on the record so that there is no misunderstanding, Senator Cameron. My colleagues and I will support this amendment, but if the government says that there is some technical drafting issue that needs to be addressed, and it's an issue that Senator Cameron is satisfied is a technical drafting issue, then we reserve the right to revisit it. That's not to reflect in any way on the drafting as it exists, but I think it's a reasonable approach. I say this respectfully to Senator Cameron. The drafting seems fine to me. If there is some issue that may not allow the legislation and the amendment to work as intended by Senator Cameron, I'd like to think Senator Cameron would be open to that. So I say, in the genuine spirit of getting this amendment through, that we support it. I think Senator Cameron acknowledges the spirit in which I'm putting that. I think that Senator Cameron, despite our fierce and vigorous debates on some issues and the fierce and vigorous agreement we have on others, knows in his heart of hearts that we will work constructively with him if there is some technical issue with respect to the amendment. In that spirit, we support this amendment.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>86</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Cameron, Sen Doug</name>
                <name.id>AI6</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="AI6" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CAMERON</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">17:35</span>):  Can I just indicate, not on behalf of myself but on behalf of the opposition, that we recognise those caveats that you've put up. We are confident in the drafting. The drafting has been done by very competent officers of the Senate, and we've got a lot of faith in their approach on this. So on that basis, yes, we accept what you're putting forward, and we welcome your support to widen that protection to these people who are being ripped off and having their money stolen.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>86</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Xenophon, Sen Nick</name>
                <name.id>8IV</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party>NXT</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="8IV" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator XENOPHON</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">17:35</span>):  Just very briefly: I would be mortified if there were any suggestion that the drafting by the officers of the Senate, who do a fantastic job, was anything other than impeccable. It was only if there were some unintended consequence. It is not a reflection on the drafting, but that is a policy issue that has arisen. I think the minister wants me to sit down and shut up, but I just want to say that the drafting is impeccable. It's a question of whether there were any additional matters that might be dealt with from a policy point of view.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="00AOP" type="OfficeInterjecting">
                      <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The TEMPORARY CHAIR </span>
                    </a>
                    <span class="HPS-GeneralBold">(</span>
                    <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">Senator Marshall</span>
                    <span class="HPS-GeneralBold">):</span>  The question is that amendments (21), (24) to (27) and (35) on sheet 8144, moved by Senator Cameron, be agreed to.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Question agreed to.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
            <interjection>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>86</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">TEMPORARY CHAIR, The</name>
                  <name.id>10000</name.id>
                  <electorate />
                  <party />
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </interjection>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>86</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Cameron, Sen Doug</name>
                <name.id>AI6</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="AI6" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CAMERON</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">17:36</span>):  I seek leave to move amendments (28) to (34) and (39) together.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="I0M" type="MemberInterjecting">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Cash:</span>
                    </a>  Some of the numbers that I have are slightly different. Can I just confirm with Senator Cameron that these amendments are in relation to—and I'll put it into my own language—additional safeguards for the FWO notice process and limits on the use of the powers of the FWO to wage related contraventions?</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="AI6" type="MemberContinuation">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator CAMERON:</span>
                    </a>   Yes, I just confirm that.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Leave granted.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="AI6" type="MemberContinuation">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator CAMERON:</span>
                    </a>  I move:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(28) Schedule 1, item 27, page 17 (before line 5), before the definition of <span style="font-weight:bold;font-style:italic;text-decoration:none underline;">FWO notice</span>, insert:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;font-style:italic;" />
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;font-style:italic;">   AAT presidential member</span> means a person who is a presidential member of the Administrative Appeals Tribunal under the <span style="font-style:italic;">Administrative Appeals Tribunal Act 1975</span>.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;font-style:italic;">   Commonwealth Ombudsman</span> means the person for the time being holding office as Ombudsman under the <span style="font-style:italic;">Ombudsman Act 1976</span>.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(29) Schedule 1, item 30, page 17 (lines 19 to 22), omit paragraphs 683(1B)(a) and (b), substitute:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">   (a) the power under subsection 712AA(1) to apply for the issue of an FWO notice; and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">   (b) the power under subsection 712AD(1) to give an FWO notice; and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">   (c) the power under subsections 712AD(3) and (4) to give notice of a later time.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(30) Schedule 1, item 35, page 18 (lines 17 and 18), omit subsection 703(2), substitute:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(2) To avoid doubt, the power to apply for the issue of an FWO notice under section 712AA and the power to give an FWO notice under section 712AD are not compliance powers.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(31) Schedule 1, item 38, page 19 (line 1) to page 20 (line 13), omit section 712A, substitute:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;" />
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">712A</span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">Minister may nominate AAT presidential members to issue FWO notices</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(1) The Minister may, by writing, nominate an AAT presidential member to issue written notices (<span style="font-weight:bold;font-style:italic;">FWO notices</span>) under section 712AB.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(2) The Minister may nominate an AAT presidential member who is a Judge to issue FWO notices under section 712AB only if the Judge has consented, by writing, to the nomination.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(3) A nomination ceases to have effect if:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">   (a) the nominated AAT presidential member ceases to be an AAT presidential member; or</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">   (b) the Minister, by writing, withdraws the nomination.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(4) A nominated AAT presidential member has, in performing a function of or connected with issuing an FWO notice under this Subdivision, the same protection and immunity as a Justice of the High Court has in relation to proceedings in the High Court.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;" />
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">712AA</span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">Fair Work Ombudsman may apply to nominated AAT presidential member for FWO notice</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-style:italic;" />
                    <span style="font-style:italic;">General requirements</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(1) The Fair Work Ombudsman may apply, in writing, to a nominated AAT presidential member for the issue of an FWO notice referred to in subsection (2) if the Fair Work Ombudsman believes on reasonable grounds that a person:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">   (a) has information or documents relevant to an investigation by an inspector into a suspected contravention of a provision of this Act, a fair work instrument or a safety net contractual entitlement that relates, directly or indirectly, to:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">      (i) the underpayment of wages, or other monetary entitlements, of employees; or</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">      (ii) the unreasonable deduction of amounts from amounts owed to employees; or</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">      (iii) the placing of unreasonable requirements on employees to spend or pay amounts paid, or payable, to employees; or</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">   (b) is capable of giving evidence that is relevant to such an investigation.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(2) The FWO notice may require the person:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">   (a) to give information to the Fair Work Ombudsman, or a specified member of the staff of the Office of the Fair Work Ombudsman; or</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">   (b) to produce documents to the Fair Work Ombudsman, or a specified member of the staff of the Office of the Fair Work Ombudsman; or</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">   (c) to attend before the Fair Work Ombudsman, or a specified member of the staff of the Office of the Fair Work Ombudsman who is an SES employee or an acting SES employee, and answer questions relevant to the investigation.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-style:italic;" />
                    <span style="font-style:italic;">Form and content of application</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(3) An application for an FWO notice must:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">   (a) if a form is prescribed by the regulations—be in that form; and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">   (b) include any information prescribed by the regulations.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(4) An application for an FWO notice must not relate to more than one person, but may relate to more than one investigation.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-style:italic;" />
                    <span style="font-style:italic;">Application must be accompanied by affidavit</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(5) An application for an FWO notice must be accompanied by an affidavit by the Fair Work Ombudsman including the following:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">   (a) the name of the person to whom the application relates;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">   (b) details of the investigation (or investigations) to which the application relates;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">   (c) the grounds on which the Fair Work Ombudsman believes the person has information or documents, or is capable of giving evidence, relevant to the investigation (or investigations) referred to in paragraph (b);</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">   (d) details of other methods used to attempt to obtain the information, documents or evidence;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">   (e) the number (if any) of previous applications for an FWO notice that the Fair Work Ombudsman has made in relation to the person in respect of the investigation (or investigations) referred to in paragraph (b);</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">   (f) information about whether the Fair Work Ombudsman has made, or expects to make, any other applications for an FWO notice in relation to the investigation (or investigations) referred to in paragraph (b) and, if so, the persons to whom those applications relate.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-style:italic;" />
                    <span style="font-style:italic;">Further information</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(6) A nominated AAT presidential member to whom an application for an FWO notice is made may request the Fair Work Ombudsman to give the presidential member further information in relation to the application.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(7) If a request for further information is made under subsection (6), the Fair Work Ombudsman must give the further information in writing as soon as practicable after receiving the request.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;" />
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">712AB</span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">Issue of FWO notice</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(1) A nominated AAT presidential member to whom an application for an FWO notice has been made must issue the FWO notice if the presidential member is satisfied of the following:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">   (a) that an inspector has commenced the investigation (or investigations) to which the application relates;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">   (b) that there are reasonable grounds to believe that the person to whom the application relates has information or documents, or is capable of giving evidence, relevant to the investigation (or investigations);</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">   (c) that any other method of obtaining the information, documents or evidence:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">      (i) has been attempted and has been unsuccessful; or</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">      (ii) is not appropriate;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">   (d) that the information, documents or evidence would be likely to be of assistance in the investigation (or investigations);</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">   (e) that, having regard to all the circumstances, it would be appropriate to issue the FWO notice;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">   (f) any other matter prescribed by the regulations.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(2) A nominated AAT presidential member must not issue an FWO notice except in the circumstances referred to in subsection (1).</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(3) An FWO notice must not be issued in relation to more than one person, but may be issued in relation to more than one investigation.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(4) If:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">   (a) an application for an FWO notice is made in relation to more than one investigation; and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">   (b) the nominated AAT presidential member to whom the application is made is not satisfied of the matters referred to in subsection (1) in relation to each of those investigations;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">the nominated AAT presidential member must issue the FWO notice in relation to the investigation (or investigations) in relation to which the nominated AAT presidential member is satisfied of the matters referred to in subsection (1).</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;" />
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">712AC</span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">Form and content of FWO notice</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">      An FWO notice must:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">   (a) if a form is prescribed by the regulations—be in that form; and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">   (b) if the notice requires a person to give information under paragraph 712AA(2)(a)—specify the time by which, and the manner and form in which, the information is to be given; and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">   (c) if the notice requires a person to produce documents under paragraph 712AA(2)(b)—specify the time by which, and the manner in which, the documents are to be produced; and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">   (d) if the notice requires a person to attend to answer questions relevant to an investigation—specify the time and place for the attendance; and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">   (e) be signed by the nominated AAT presidential member who issued it; and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">   (f) include any other information prescribed by the regulations.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;" />
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">712AD</span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">Fair Work Ombudsman may give FWO notice to person in relation to whom it is issued and vary time for compliance</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-style:italic;" />
                    <span style="font-style:italic;">Fair Work Ombudsman may give FWO notice to person in relation to whom it is issued</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(1) If a nominated AAT presidential member issues an FWO notice, the Fair Work Ombudsman may give the notice to the person in relation to whom it is issued.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(2) If an FWO notice is not given to the person in relation to whom it is issued within 3 months after the day on which it was issued, the notice ceases to have effect at the end of that period.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-style:italic;" />
                    <span style="font-style:italic;">Variation of time for compliance with FWO notice</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(3) If:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">   (a) the Fair Work Ombudsman gives an FWO notice to a person under subsection (1); and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">   (b) the time specified in the notice under paragraph 712AC(b), (c) or (d) is not at least 14 days after the notice is given to the person;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">the Fair Work Ombudsman must, at the same time as the FWO notice is given to the person, also give notice to the person of a time later than the time specified in the notice.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(4) The Fair Work Ombudsman may, at any time after giving an FWO notice to the person in relation to whom it is issued, give notice to the person of a time later than the time:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">   (a) specified in the notice under paragraph 712AC(b), (c) or (d); or</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">   (b) notified under subsection (3).</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(5) A later time notified under subsection (3) or (4) must be at least 14 days after the FWO notice is given to the person.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(6) If the person is notified of a later time under subsection (3) or (4), the FWO notice has effect as if the later time (or the latest of those times) were the time specified in the FWO notice.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;" />
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">712AE</span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">Conduct of examination</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-style:italic;" />
                    <span style="font-style:italic;">Legal representation</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(1) A person attending before the Fair Work Ombudsman, or a member of the staff mentioned in paragraph 712AA(2)(c), may be represented by a lawyer if the person chooses.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-style:italic;" />
                    <span style="font-style:italic;">Oath or affirmation</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(2) The Fair Work Ombudsman, or a member of the staff mentioned in paragraph 712AA(2)(c), may require the information or answers to be verified by, or given on, oath or affirmation, and either orally or in writing. For that purpose, the Fair Work Ombudsman, or any member of the staff of the Office of the Fair Work Ombudsman, may administer the oath or affirmation.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(3) The oath or affirmation is an oath or affirmation that the information or answers are or will be true.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(32) Schedule 1, item 38, page 20 (line 21), omit "712A(5)", substitute "712AE(2)".</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(33) Schedule 1, item 38, page 21 (after line 19), after section 712D, insert:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;" />
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">712E</span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">Fair Work Ombudsman must notify Commonwealth Ombudsman of issue of FWO notice</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(1) As soon as practicable after an FWO notice has been issued, the Fair Work Ombudsman must:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">   (a) notify the Commonwealth Ombudsman that the FWO notice has been issued; and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">   (b) give the Commonwealth Ombudsman a copy of:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">      (i) the FWO notice; and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">      (ii) the affidavit that accompanied the application for the FWO notice; and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">      (iii) any other information in relation to the FWO notice that was given to the nominated AAT presidential member who issued the notice.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(2) If notice under subsection 712AD(3) or (4) is given to a person, the Fair Work Ombudsman must notify the Commonwealth Ombudsman as soon as practicable after giving notice.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;" />
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">712F</span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">Review and report by Commonwealth Ombudsman</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-style:italic;" />
                    <span style="font-style:italic;">Fair Work Ombudsman to give report etc. to Commonwealth Ombudsman</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(1) As soon as practicable after an examination of a person under paragraph 712AA(2)(c) is completed, the Fair Work Ombudsman must give the Commonwealth Ombudsman:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">   (a) a report about the examination; and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">   (b) a video recording of the examination; and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">   (c) a transcript of the examination.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(2) The report under paragraph (1)(a) must include:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">   (a) a copy of the FWO notice under which the examination was conducted; and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">   (b) the following information:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">      (i) the time and place at which the examination was conducted;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">      (ii) the name of each person who was present at the examination;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">      (iii) any other information prescribed by the rules.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-style:italic;" />
                    <span style="font-style:italic;">Review of exercise of powers under this Subdivision</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(3) The Commonwealth Ombudsman:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">   (a) must review the exercise of powers under this Subdivision by the Fair Work Ombudsman and any member of the staff of the Office of the Fair Work Ombudsman; and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">   (b) may do anything incidental or conducive to the performance of that function.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(4) The Commonwealth Ombudsman's powers under the <span style="font-style:italic;">Ombudsman Act 1976</span> extend to a review by the Ombudsman under this section as if the review were an investigation by the Ombudsman under that Act.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(5) The exercise of those powers in relation to a review by the Ombudsman under this section is taken, for all purposes, to be an exercise of powers under the <span style="font-style:italic;">Ombudsman Act 1976</span>.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-style:italic;" />
                    <span style="font-style:italic;">Commonwealth Ombudsman to report to Parliament</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(6) As soon as practicable after the end of each quarter of each financial year, the Commonwealth Ombudsman must prepare and present to the Parliament a report about examinations conducted during that quarter. The report must include the results of reviews conducted under this section during that quarter.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(7) The Commonwealth Ombudsman may prepare and present to the Parliament any other reports about the results of reviews conducted under this section the Commonwealth Ombudsman considers appropriate.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(34) Schedule 1, item 56, page 28 (line 11), omit "712A(2)", substitute "712AA(2)".</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(39) Schedule 1, item 57, page 31 (line 31), omit "712D", substitute "712F".</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">These amendments are in relation to doing the same as was done for the ABCC, and that is to have Administrative Appeals Tribunal oversight and ombudsman oversight of the compulsory questioning powers and ensure that they are used for investigations into exploitation of vulnerable workers.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Stakeholders from business and from unions made submissions to the Senate committee inquiry, raising concerns about the lack of oversight in the bill for the proposed new Fair Work Ombudsman compulsory questioning powers. Every senator here, I think, would be well aware of the debates that took place in relation to the requirement for oversight in the ABCC.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">While Labor support giving the Fair Work Ombudsman the powers necessary to prevent, uncover and prosecute the exploitation and underpayment of vulnerable workers, we are also concerned that these powers are exercised appropriately. When the Senate debated the ABCC legislation recently, it ensured that the compulsory questioning powers to be granted to the ABCC were subject to oversight by the AAT and the Commonwealth Ombudsman. These amendments put the same oversight procedure into the proposed Fair Work Ombudsman compulsory questioning power contained in the bill.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The Fair Work Ombudsman gave evidence to the Senate that these powers would enhance her ability to investigate and prosecute serious and systemic exploitation of workers such as that carried out by 7-Eleven. The explanatory memorandum made it clear that the purpose of the coercive powers was to strengthen 'the evidence-gathering powers of the Fair Work Ombudsman to ensure that the exploitation of vulnerable workers can be effectively investigated'. All of the government's public statements have described the bill as introducing better investigatory powers relating to the exploitation of vulnerable workers. We take the view that limiting the use of the proposed coercive powers to investigations into underpayment of wages and allowances is consistent with the position that coercive powers should be used sparingly and only where justified.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">These amendments require the Fair Work Ombudsman to apply to the AAT for a notice to compel a person for questioning; require the AAT to be satisfied that there are reasonable grounds to believe the person has relevant information and that other methods of obtaining that information have been unsuccessful or are not appropriate; and give the Commonwealth Ombudsman review and reporting responsibilities. They will ensure the coercive powers are used only for the intended purpose: to facilitate investigations into the exploitation of vulnerable workers, specifically the underpayment of their wages and entitlements.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">In relation to our concerns, we have got some legitimate reasons to be raising this. Remember when the ABCC was introduced, and the ABCC under the act that passed parliament had responsibility to ensure that it behaved appropriately and fairly and that it dealt with issues of exploitation and breaches of the act in relation to workers, their wages and their entitlements. I asked a question on this issue to the Department of Employment—I asked the question on 30 May 2017, on proof <span style="font-style:italic;">Hansard</span> page 107—and I received a response in relation to the question. I asked Mr Hadgkiss—it was about a mandate from parliament—and he said, 'When I took over, it was what the government of the day directed me.' So I said, 'When you took over—the mandate not to deal?' Mr Hadgkiss interrupted and said, 'To concentrate on what was termed core business.' I'm sure senators are aware of this debate. So I said, 'So the mandate came from the government, not you?' And Mr Hadgkiss said, 'It was a direction from the minister of the day—yes.' I said, 'That was Minister Abetz wasn't it?' Mr Hadgkiss said, 'Yes,' then I said, 'Was that a written direction?' He said, 'I'll take it on notice.' I asked for him to provide copies of the written direction. And, I received an answer to that question and the answer was this: 'On 12 November 2013, the director of Fair Work Building and Construction—FWBC—and the Fair Work Ombudsman received an email from the Office of the Senator the Hon. Eric Abetz—the then Minister for Employment—advising that the Prime Minister had requested that wages compliance functions held by the FWBC be transferred to the Fair Work Ombudsman. The email advised that the Minister for Employment would write to the Fair Work Building Commission director and the Fair Work Ombudsman to formally request this transfer of functions occur. A copy of the email is attached.' There's an email—who it's from is redacted—but it was sent to Mr Nigel Hadgkiss, and it's headlined 'sensitive'. I'm not surprised. It says: 'Dear director and ombudsman, the minister has received correspondence this morning from the Prime Minister asking that wages compliance functions held by the FWBC be transferred to the Fair Work Ombudsman as a matter of urgency.' It says: 'We have asked for this to occur in the past, but given the PM's interest in this, the minister has asked that this be advanced as rapidly as possible. Minister Abetz will write to you both later today/tonight formally requesting this to occur as a high priority. Happy to discuss.' It's signed by one of Senator Abetz's advisers—and that name is redacted.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">This goes exactly to the issue here. This coalition government is absolutely obsessed with the trade union movement in this country. The minister is particularly obsessed with the trade union movement in this country. The coalition moved bill after bill in this place to restrict the capacity of the trade union movement to operate effectively and fairly. The minister has continually attacked the trade union movement in this country. And we are concerned that, given the history of the coalition and this minister and their contempt for the legal rights of the trade union movement to operate effectively, this is simply another Trojan Horse to attack the wages and conditions of workers in this country.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">We find again the Prime Minister writing to the minister to change how an organisation operates, to diminish their effectiveness in looking after workers, so that resources could be transferred to the then Fair Work Building and Construction to attack the trade union movement. That's the history of this government. This government has no credibility when it comes to looking after working people. You know the history of Work Choices. You know the history of royal commissions being run against their political opponents. You know the history of the legislation that's come in here time and time again. So we are concerned that this Trojan Horse that they've put up will simply be another attack on the union movement operating fairly, effectively and legally. And that's why we do not support a proposition that is inconsistent with the submissions that the Fair Work Ombudsman made, inconsistent with the submissions that have been received by the inquiry and inconsistent with the public statements of the minister and the government in relation to what this part of this bill does.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">It was never proposed that this bill should be used to attack the trade union movement. It was never proposed that it should do any more than protect vulnerable workers. You need only look at the name of the bill to understand what this is about. But given the history and what happened with Senator Abetz and the then PM Tony Abbott, we have grave and legitimate concerns that this should not be widened past what it was publicly asserted the bill would do and what the submissions to the inquiry have said the bill is about. We've a range of amendments that deal with this.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">In the inquiry, as I've indicated, a number of submissions were made, including from Mr Michael Campbell, the Deputy Fair Work Ombudsman. He said:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">We would not reach to use this [strengthened evidence-gathering power] at the commencement of an investigation.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">He goes on to say:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">This is something that is going to assist us in the most difficult and complex cases, where witnesses are unwilling to work with us for fear of retribution or some other feature, where you can see within a company that there is an attitude to noncompliance which is getting to a point where managers are refusing to talk to us because there is some pressure being put on them by the directors of the company, or where the directors of a company are choosing not to involve themselves in our investigations. This is to crack the hardest of nuts, and we have seen plenty of those cases over the last 12 months</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">So the Deputy Fair Work Ombudsman is saying he has seen plenty of these cases over the last few months and has outlined what they are about. He said the conduct was deliberate for serious contraventions. We have a concern that this will be widened and it should not be widened. The proof of the pudding is in the eating. You only need to look at what this government did when it previously had the opportunity to attack workers' rights to have access to a trade union, so we are concerned about this.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Labor would ask the crossbench and the Greens to support this proposition because this is a proposition that is fundamental to ensuring that what has been proposed by the government is implemented but no more, and to protect the trade union movement in this country from further ideological attacks by this minister and this government. If the crossbench concede this point then they will be going far further than this bill was publicly asserted it was supposed to do. This is consistent with the rhetoric of the government, it's consistent with the bill and it is consistent with the proposals that were put up publicly by the minister. We are of the view this is a very important—fundamental—part of this bill. It needs to be amended, and we will be asking support for our amendments.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
            <interjection>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>86</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Cash, Sen Michaelia</name>
                  <name.id>I0M</name.id>
                  <electorate />
                  <party>LP</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </interjection>
            <continue>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>86</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Cameron, Sen Doug</name>
                  <name.id>AI6</name.id>
                  <electorate />
                  <party>ALP</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </continue>
            <continue>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>86</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Cameron, Sen Doug</name>
                  <name.id>AI6</name.id>
                  <electorate />
                  <party>ALP</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </continue>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>91</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Cash, Sen Michaelia</name>
                <name.id>I0M</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="I0M" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CASH</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Western Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister Assisting the Prime Minister for the Public Service, Minister for Employment and Minister for Women</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">17:52</span>):  These amendments will insert AAT presidential member and Commonwealth Ombudsman oversight for the FWO notice process and would limit the proposed new information-gathering powers to wage related contraventions. The government will be opposing Labor's amendments to the Fair Work Ombudsman's new investigative powers as detailed in items 28 through 34, and item 39. The government does support, however, the additional oversight mechanism to the new Fair Work Ombudsman notice process but will not support those powers being limited in the way proposed by these amendments.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The Fair Work Ombudsman is the regulator, as we know, responsible for enforcing the Fair Work Act. And the point I make in relation to the Fair Work Act is that this is actually Labor's piece of legislation. The Fair Work Ombudsman is responsible for enforcing the act that the Labor Party, when in government, brought into force. What the opposition wants to do by moving this amendment is actually turn off its powers in relation to enforcement of the Fair Work Act. If Labor's amendments were supported, the Fair Work Ombudsman would actually have its hands tied when investigating an unfair dismissal claim against an employer or even a bullying claim. A hostile employer would be able to argue that the powers do not apply to them and then use litigation to avoid the ombudsman properly investigating their mistreatment of workers. The government will be supporting the more measured amendments moved by Senator Xenophon in relation to the oversight provisions of the AAT.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The compliance role and the enforcement role of the Fair Work Ombudsman is much broader than underpayments and it is critical that all aspects of Australian workplace laws that have been put in place—the act is Labor's act—are enforceable and they are enforced. The restrictions that Labor want to put on the Fair Work Ombudsman's new investigative powers will fragment the regulator's capacity to address serious issues of noncompliance under the Fair Work Act and to obtain evidence that inspectors cannot obtain by other lawful means.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">For example, Labor's amendment limits the power of the Fair Work Ombudsman to apply for a notice to examine witnesses to only those investigations relating directly or indirectly to wage related contraventions. This means that the Fair Work Ombudsman would be unable to expressly obtain information or evidence that cannot be obtained via other means for a large number of breaches of the act, including important protections like discrimination, coercion, conduct in terms of false records, unprotected industrial action, accessorial liability, unfair dismissal, bullying claims and some of the most serious conduct—which we have seen in the 7-Eleven investigations—involving employers failing to keep proper records or, worse, deliberately falsifying the records. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Well-resourced parties, including those engaging in exploitative practices the bill intends to address, could tie up the resources of the Fair Work Ombudsman in protracted and expensive legal arguments about the jurisdictional basis for issuing a notice, the way the power is exercised in any interview or requirement to give any information and the admissibility of any evidence relating to other contravention types. This will not address exploitative conduct or assist vulnerable workers. It will merely give well-resourced operators the opportunity to wriggle out of their responsibilities, and that is not what the bill seeks to do. Again, if Labor's amendments are supported, the Fair Work Ombudsman will effectively have their hands tied when investigating an unfair dismissal claim against an employer or even a bullying claim. That does not assist the workers.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>92</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Cameron, Sen Doug</name>
                <name.id>AI6</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="AI6" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CAMERON</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">17:57</span>):  Well, where do you start on this? An argument that we don't support oversight is just another overreach by a government that has been overreaching every minute of this week. To argue that the government won't support the amendments because it turns off the Fair Work Ombudsman's powers for enforcement is an absolute nonsense, and it would not tie the hands of the ombudsman. These are just assertions that are being made up on the run by this minister. I know the minister has read every one of them and I note she's consulted on this issue, but it's clear that this is being made up on the run. This bill was not to deal with industrial action. There has been not one argument put by the department and not one argument put by the minister in the public arena that this was required to deal with industrial action. The name of the bill is 'Protecting Vulnerable Workers Bill,' and the government has stood up and argued this is about protecting vulnerable workers. If you really want to protect vulnerable workers, then these amendments are amendments that focus the bill on the vulnerable workers issue. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I'll put to you, Minister, that if you're concerned about unfair dismissal and bullying not being covered by this, we would be happy to make additions to our amendment to cover unfair dismissal and bullying. Why wouldn't we? We would do that. That's the argument you've raised. And we want to deal with that argument, so we would put to the crossbench that we add unfair dismissal and bullying. That would mean we would support the oversight. We would not turn off the powers. But we would limit the powers to what this bill was proposed to do, and that is to protect vulnerable workers, not to be another battering ram of ideological oppression from this minister and this government against workers' unions in this country.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">If anyone on the crossbench supports this, that's exactly what you'll be doing. The minister didn't send the department down to the inquiry to say, 'Well, this isn't just about protecting vulnerable workers; actually, we want this to deal with industrial action.' That was never put, and it's only now, at the last minute, that the minister is raising this issue. We knew what the minister was really about, and that's why these amendments were drafted in the way they were: to ensure that we actually protect vulnerable workers and don't create another impediment to unions operating freely and fairly in this country. The Reserve Bank has said that workers should get out and make wage claims because of the problem of stagnating wages for the economy. This will be another barrier to workers getting out and making proper, effective claims and having decent enterprise bargaining in this country.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The minister has given up right now what she's all about: she has an ideological obsession with unions. The government has an ideological obsession with the trade union movement. This is not about protecting vulnerable workers. And I put it to you, Senator Xenophon, that, if we add unfair dismissal and bullying, it covers the arguments the minister has put up but restricts the minister from doing what former Minister Abetz did, which was to use a government organisation to attack the trade union movement. So that's where we're at with this. The minister has just opened up this Pandora's box as to what this really is about. It's not about protecting vulnerable workers. It's another attack on the trade union movement.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>92</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Xenophon, Sen Nick</name>
                <name.id>8IV</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party>NXT</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="8IV" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator XENOPHON</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">18:03</span>):  I might do something a little bit unorthodox and a bit unfashionable—refer to the actual wording of the amendment and work through that. I know it's a bit boring, but I think we need to work through that. I've got some questions to ask Senator Cameron and the minister in relation to this. Senator Cameron, I know interjections are disorderly, but, if I've got the wrong clause, I'm sure that you will set me straight. I think we're looking at Senator Cameron's amendment at the bottom of page 6 on sheet 8144, which refers to proposed section 712AA about the general requirements.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="AI6" type="MemberInterjecting">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Cameron:</span>
                    </a>  Yes.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="8IV" type="MemberContinuation">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator XENOPHON:</span>
                    </a>  It states:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(1) The Fair Work Ombudsman may apply, in writing, to a nominated AAT presidential member for the issue of an FWO notice referred to in subsection (2) if the Fair Work Ombudsman believes on reasonable grounds that a person:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">   (a) has information or documents relevant to an investigation by an inspector into a suspected contravention of a provision of this Act, a fair work instrument or a safety net contractual entitlement that relates, directly or indirectly, to:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">      (i) the underpayment of wages, or other monetary entitlements, of employees; or</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">      (ii) the unreasonable deduction of amounts from amounts owed to employees; or</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">      (iii) the placing of unreasonable requirements on employees to spend or pay amounts paid, or payable, to employees; or</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(b) is capable of giving evidence that is relevant to such an investigation.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Now, even if we were to restrict it to the provisions of this act, I want to talk about some general principles. Senator Cameron, I genuinely want to explore this because I've got some concerns in terms of broader policy, and I will put this to the minister. I understand how important you regard this to be, and I understand its importance.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Let's say that this is about vulnerable workers being exploited. But the proposed limitation would actually prevent the Fair Work Ombudsman from using the power to investigate employers in other circumstances where it's not just about the payment of wages but it could be related. It could be a pattern of conduct where there has been an unfair dismissal—an employee has been unfairly dismissed; or it could be bullying allegations; it could be a discrimination case; it could be breaches of the National Employment Standards, which could involve the right to public holidays or parental leave; or there could be contraventions that could give rise to compensation in addition to any repayment of wages.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">That's the basis of what I think Senator Cameron is trying to achieve, and I can understand the spirit in which he has dealt with this particular amendment. But what I'm trying to understand, and what my concern is, is that firstly, if you accept the proposition contained in the rationale for Senator Cameron's amendment—and again I understand the spirit in which he's moved it—there may be circumstances where the Fair Work Ombudsman ought to use their powers to relate to matters of adverse action which may cast a broader net in the context of dealing with these issues of underpayment of wages.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The second issue relates more broadly to the principles that we see with ASIC and with the ACCC, where they do have coercive powers to get documents and to get evidence in order to fulfil their statutory functions. And if the role of the Fair Work Ombudsman, unlike the ABCC, is primarily to uphold the rights of workers who have a genuine grievance—whether it's an adverse action, bullying allegations, discrimination cases, breaches of National Employment Standards, unfair dismissal or underpayment of wages—then surely what the government is proposing would be beneficial: to extend those powers so that the Fair Work Ombudsman has the power to deal with these cases that relate to the rights of workers who have a genuine grievance.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">If what Senator Cameron is saying is that that power could be abused, then I wonder if there is another way to deal with this. It seems that the Fair Work Ombudsman will be restricted in their ability to deal with important issues such as bullying, discrimination and breaches of National Employment Standards, as well as underpayment of wages and adverse actions. So I'm trying to elicit assurance from Senator Cameron—genuinely, because I understand very much the spirit in which he's moved this amendment. I'm concerned that if his amendment goes through, even in the cases of underpayment of wages for vulnerable workers, it may constrain what is occurring here: it may constrain the work that the FWO can do to shut down these practices.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">So, Senator Cameron, I hope you understand the spirit in which I'm asking these questions. I'm genuinely trying to work through this. If you have concerns that the powers will be abused by ministerial direction, I wonder if there is another way that we can deal with this rather than by this amendment. I think it will significantly narrow the powers of the Fair Work Ombudsman in a way that will impact on reasonable claims that workers may have—whether they are unfair dismissal, bullying, discrimination or a whole range of matters in addition to underpayment of wages.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
            <interjection>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>93</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Cameron, Sen Doug</name>
                  <name.id>AI6</name.id>
                  <electorate />
                  <party>ALP</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </interjection>
            <continue>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>93</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Xenophon, Sen Nick</name>
                  <name.id>8IV</name.id>
                  <electorate />
                  <party>NXT</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </continue>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>93</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Cameron, Sen Doug</name>
                <name.id>AI6</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="AI6" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CAMERON</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">18:09</span>):  Thanks, Senator Xenophon, for the constructive way you've put this. Can I just draw your attention again to the submission from the Fair Work Ombudsman, where the Deputy Fair Work Ombudsman spoke about this being for the most complex cases. This is not just for any issue. The Fair Work Ombudsman will still have the powers they have at the moment. There is no diminution, in these amendments, to the powers that the Fair Work Ombudsman already has. What the Fair Work Ombudsman put was that this was for the most complex cases. If you go to the bottom of page 6 on sheet 8144—that's the opposition amendments—and you look at (a), it says at the bottom 'that relates, directly or indirectly, to'. So there's a relationship on there that can be 'directly or indirectly'.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">You have raised a number of other issues. You've raised unfair dismissal. You've raised bullying. You've raised discrimination. You've raised employment standards and compensation issues. As a former union official, I understand why you've raised all of those issues. We take the view that we would be prepared to amend this. When you go to the top of page 7 and you get Roman numeral (iii), we could add a Roman numeral (iv) and have appropriate words on unfair dismissal. We can do a Roman numeral (v) and do an appropriate set of words on bullying. We can do a Roman numeral (vi) on the discrimination, a Roman numeral (vii) on employment standards and a Roman numeral (viii) on compensation.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">That would mean that, rather than this being a narrowing of the capacity of the Fair Work Ombudsman, it's a widening of the issues for the Fair Work Ombudsman, but it would be done in the context of the complex cases. The Fair Work Ombudsman didn't come and ask for powers to deal with the run-of-the-mill cases it deals with. I don't think it raised any of those issues during the hearings. It spoke about the most complex cases, and the bill has been proposed as protecting vulnerable workers.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">So, Senator Xenophon, I put it to you that, if we make these changes, we will actually improve, and that's what this committee process is about. It's about improving amendments. It's about debating the issues, understanding the issues, having a bit of quid pro quo and dealing with the issues as they are raised. We believe that the issues you have raised can be attached to our amendment and cover all the concerns you have, and that would still then meet the issues you have raised. It would deal with the issues that the Fair Work Ombudsman have raised, and it would also ensure that the ideological attacks that this government has done in the past will not be done in this case.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">So we are saying: we hear what you're saying; we accept what you're saying; we will amend our amendments to deal with it, but, on that basis, we should not be using this bill for anything other than what the Fair Work Ombudsman asked for and what the minister has publicly said it stands for. That would fix the problem. So I ask you what your view would be on that.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>94</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Xenophon, Sen Nick</name>
                <name.id>8IV</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party>NXT</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="8IV" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator XENOPHON</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">18:13</span>):  I just want to get some clarification of that. I would have to be the last person in this chamber to ever criticise anyone for doing amendments on the run, given that sometimes things get very fluid in the chamber, so no criticism of Senator Cameron. That's what the committee stage is about. That's why it's important to flesh out these issues and to deal with them as comprehensively as we can. In some cases—and I'll be guided by you, Mr Temporary Chair—you can park an amendment and deal with it before the committee stage is concluded.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I guess what I was concerned about was a general public policy position that if a piece of legislation gives a regulator powers—and I'm thinking of ASIC and the ACCC as precedents—and if there's been a contravention of that piece of legislation, then they have certain powers to mandatorily get witnesses to give statements, to get documents and sometimes to seize those documents before they are destroyed, if need be, in order that they can do their job. I dare say there may be cases where, if an employer has been involved in systemic fraud of their employees, you do need those coercive powers so you can go in there and seize those documents without notice, because, if you give them notice, I know what some of these people will do. Some of these crooks will go in and destroy the documents and evidence. Sometimes you need to have a raid on their premises and seize the documents in order that you have the evidence to do this. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">If we are talking about issues that are effectively beneficial to workers—the matters that I have outlined—why wouldn't we give those powers to the Fair Work Ombudsman? Overwhelmingly, it appears to me that that would improve the rights of workers who have been done over, whether it's underpayment of wages, unfair dismissal, bullying, discrimination, breaches of national employment standards or contraventions that could give rise to compensation other than repayment of wages.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I want to work constructively with Senator Cameron and, indeed, the government on this. I'm just concerned if those amendments restrict it. I think we need to look at the drafting of this. If the foreshadowed amendments by Senator Cameron are still incidental to the issue of underpayment of wages, I wonder whether that would unnecessarily constrain the Fair Work Ombudsman. I'm trying to understand, through you, Mr Temporary Chair, what mischief there might be and what concerns Senator Cameron has in terms of any ministerial direction to—I think in his terms—overreach or overextend or abuse those powers. I think, from a public policy point of view, you ought to give a regulator the power to get the evidence they need and seize the documents they need in those exceptional circumstances. We don't know what an exceptional circumstance is until the investigation is underway. If there's evidence that a business has been engaged in systematic fraud of its employees in terms of their entitlements, or has been systematically involved in a form of adverse action against its employees, and there's documentary evidence of that, I don't want to constrain the Fair Work Ombudsman from going in there and seizing those documents to protect the rights of those workers. </span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>95</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Cameron, Sen Doug</name>
                <name.id>AI6</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="AI6" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CAMERON</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">18:17</span>):  Can I indicate that this is not about documents. This is about, as the Fair Work Ombudsman says, 'the most complex cases'.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="8IV" type="MemberInterjecting">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Xenophon:</span>
                    </a>  How do you determine what a complex case is, though?</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="AI6" type="MemberContinuation">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator CAMERON:</span>
                    </a>  The Fair Work Ombudsman makes that decision. Here are two examples: 7-Eleven and Baiada. That's another issue that we'll come to in relation to this bill, because this has been concentrating on the franchise approach, but Baiada wasn't franchised. 7-Eleven was franchised, but Baiada, Caltex and a number of the other high-profile cases of stealing of workers' money weren't simply in relation to franchising.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">We say that the Fair Work Ombudsman powers that are there now are not diminished by this at all. The Fair Work Ombudsman will have the powers it has now, and it will have additional powers arising from this bill with the appropriate amendments. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="8IV" type="MemberInterjecting">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Xenophon:</span>
                    </a>  But why not more generally, though?</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="AI6" type="MemberContinuation">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator CAMERON:</span>
                    </a>  You say, 'Why not more generally?' Because this has to be about complex cases. The Fair Work Ombudsman did not ask for more general powers. The Fair Work Ombudsman put this in the context of the most complex cases. It was really about unpaid wages. You've raised a widening of the issues. Labor, the opposition, is saying that we understand what you're raising and we are inclined to agree with you.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">But there are things we are not prepared to accept. You see this minister in action every question time. You see this government in action. When they're in trouble, they immediately attack the trade union movement. That's what they do. As soon as their internal problems spill into the public arena, as soon as they have a problem of overreach, they come here every question time and run an argument against the trade union movement. So we have no confidence in this minister in that area. We have no confidence in this government.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">What we are saying is that this bill was promoted to protect vulnerable workers, not to be another piece of their arsenal against the trade union movement. I put very clearly to you, Senator Xenophon: they have the ABCC now, they have the ROC—the Registered Organisations Commission—and they have the Fair Work Commission and the Fair Work Ombudsman with general powers. So there's a raft of legislation that targets the trade union movement unheard of in any other advanced economy in the world, yet here we have the minister at the last minute during the debate in committee raising the issue of the union movement and this bill dealing with issues from industrial action.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">How many more pieces of legislation can those opposite put in against industrial action in this country? The union movement—workers—in this country are hamstrung by legislation predominantly introduced by this government against them, and that's why we have bargaining. It's so difficult. And we have the Reserve Bank governor saying: 'You have to do better. Get out there and bargain and get more wages so we can get the economy boosted.' All this government does is obsess with the trade union movement.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Senator Xenophon, I feel you're raising these issues in a good way. You have raised unfair dismissal, you raised bullying, and you have raised compensation, employment standards and discrimination. We can add them. But we are not prepared to accept another ideological attack from this government and another set of laws that limit the legitimate capacity of the trade union movement to bargain for its members and look after its members. This is the fundamental issue that's before us. You have raised legitimate issues and they can be dealt with. But the minister, in her last contribution, actually raised a wider attack on the trade union movement. So I would appeal to the crossbench to understand what this minister is about and what this government is about. Do not give them another piece of artillery against the trade union movement in this country, because already we have amongst the most restricted trade union movements anywhere in the advanced world.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
            <interjection>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>95</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Xenophon, Sen Nick</name>
                  <name.id>8IV</name.id>
                  <electorate />
                  <party>NXT</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </interjection>
            <continue>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>95</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Cameron, Sen Doug</name>
                  <name.id>AI6</name.id>
                  <electorate />
                  <party>ALP</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </continue>
            <interjection>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>95</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Xenophon, Sen Nick</name>
                  <name.id>8IV</name.id>
                  <electorate />
                  <party>NXT</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </interjection>
            <continue>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>95</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Cameron, Sen Doug</name>
                  <name.id>AI6</name.id>
                  <electorate />
                  <party>ALP</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </continue>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>95</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Cash, Sen Michaelia</name>
                <name.id>I0M</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="I0M" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CASH</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Western Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister Assisting the Prime Minister for the Public Service, Minister for Employment and Minister for Women</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">18:24</span>):  If I could briefly address what the amendments that the government is moving seek to do, the bill will grant the Fair Work Ombudsman new evidence-gathering powers similar to those already available to corporate regulators like ASIC and ACCC. So what the new powers will enable the Fair Work Ombudsman to do is to issue what is called an FWO, Fair Work Ombudsman, notice to compel a person to provide information or documents or to attend an interview. The powers will be particularly important in cases where no relevant documents appear to be available and an investigation has stalled. The Fair Work Ombudsman will have the power to issue a FWO notice if they reasonably believe a person has the information or documents relevant to the investigation or is capable of giving evidence that is relevant to an investigation. To complement these new powers, the bill will also prohibit, expressly, anyone from hindering or obstructing a Fair Work Ombudsman inspector or giving the Fair Work Ombudsman false or misleading information or documents.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The new powers will help progress investigations where people refuse to cooperate with Fair Work inspectors and there is no documentary evidence available, or it appears documents have been falsified. The new powers will provide the Fair Work Ombudsman with a greater suite of options to tackle exploitation of workers. As I have said, the new powers will enhance the Fair Work Ombudsman's ability to gather evidence where proper records do not exist or are being withheld by those with something to hide, and give the Fair Work Ombudsman new avenues to pursue those who hinder or obstruct investigations or provide false or misleading information.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The new powers will assist the Fair Work Ombudsman with important investigations like that of 7-Eleven. In the 7-Eleven investigation, the Fair Work Ombudsman experienced a wide lack of cooperation from franchisees and others that hindered its ability to gather evidence about suspected breaches of workplace laws. The ombudsman could not compel verbal evidence from people when employment records didn't exist, were falsified or were just not forthcoming. These powers will be used as a last resort by the Fair Work Ombudsman and will not be required where employers cooperate with an investigation. They will assist in obtaining the information necessary to bring actions against those who do not cooperate with investigations.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">For the benefit of the Senate as well, there are safeguards in place to ensure the proper use of these powers. Robust safeguards will ensure that these powers are used appropriately. For example, the powers can only be exercised after written notice has been provided that gives at least 14 days notice to the recipient. A notice can only be issued by the Fair Work Ombudsman personally or one of her senior executives under delegation.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="8IV" type="MemberInterjecting">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Xenophon:</span>
                    </a>  What about seizing documents in the case—</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="I0V" type="OfficeInterjecting">
                      <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The TEMPORARY CHAIR </span>
                    </a>
                    <span class="HPS-GeneralBold">(</span>
                    <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">Senator Williams</span>
                    <span class="HPS-GeneralBold">):</span>  Senator Xenophon, with your questions, please make a note of them and I'll give you the call when the minister completes her presentation.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="I0M" type="MemberContinuation">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator CASH:</span>
                    </a>  As an additional safeguard, the witness has a right to legal representation and reimbursement for a wide range of expenses, including legal expenses.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">In terms of the amendments proposed by Labor, why does Labor want to limit the powers of the ombudsman that it established to enforce the act that it created? Imagine, for example, in relation to other corporate regulators like ASIC or the ACCC, saying to them, 'You only have the ability to enforce certain parts of your act.' As I have already stated, this would mean quite literally that employers who want to ensure that employees are wrapped up in a litigious process over whether a power was or was not be able to be exercised could do that—especially well-resourced employers. It could lead to the employee quite literally being dragged through a legal process through no fault of their own. The Fair Work Ombudsman is the regulator responsible for regulating or enforcing the Fair Work Act. Quite literally, if Labor's amendments are supported the Fair Work Ombudsman will have her hands or its hands tied when investigating, for example, an unfair dismissal claim or a bullying claim against an employer. As I said, any hostile employer, anyone, will be able to argue that the powers do not apply to them and use litigation to avoid the ombudsman properly investigating the case against the employer. </span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
            <interjection>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>96</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Xenophon, Sen Nick</name>
                  <name.id>8IV</name.id>
                  <electorate />
                  <party>NXT</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </interjection>
            <interjection>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>96</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">TEMPORARY CHAIR, The</name>
                  <name.id>10000</name.id>
                  <electorate />
                  <party />
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </interjection>
            <continue>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>96</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Cash, Sen Michaelia</name>
                  <name.id>I0M</name.id>
                  <electorate />
                  <party>LP</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </continue>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>96</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Cameron, Sen Doug</name>
                <name.id>AI6</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="AI6" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CAMERON</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">18:30</span>):  I really don't know where that took us. That was just a regurgitation of the issues that I think most of us agree on, except that this is what the Fair Work Ombudsman put to us for dealing with the most complex cases. We are not limiting the powers of the Fair Work Ombudsman. The Fair Work Act is unchanged in relation to the general powers. This is about the most complex cases, and it is about ensuring that the bill deals with what the minister has publicly said it is about—that is, protecting vulnerable workers. But in the last minute, we've got the minister throwing in this argument that it's about industrial action. I will just repeat it quickly. We have the ABCC, the Fair Work Ombudsman, the Fair Work Commission and the registered organisations, and we have limitations on bargaining and industrial action that no other advanced country in the world has. We are determined that it should not be harder for ordinary Australians out there to have their union represent them effectively.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">So, Senator Xenophon, I will indicate to you that—we had that quick chat between times—we would be prepared to move to another of our amendments now so that we can commence discussions with the crossbench, because we won't get agreement from the minister. The minister has given the game away. She wants to use this to attack union rights further and to limit industrial action even more. We want to work with you and the crossbench to deal with the issues that you have raised, and, on that basis, I would seek advice from the chair as to whether we can move to another aspect of this. I would be prepared, if I need to, to move on to another aspect and allow some discussions to take place on this as soon as practicable. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The TEMPORARY CHAIR:</span>  Senator Cameron, you can request to postpone the debate on this particular amendment and, if it is the wish of the committee and they agree, then we can move on to another amendment. </span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
            <interjection>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>96</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">TEMPORARY CHAIR, The</name>
                  <name.id>10000</name.id>
                  <electorate />
                  <party />
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </interjection>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>96</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Cameron, Sen Doug</name>
                <name.id>AI6</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="AI6" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CAMERON</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">18:33</span>):  I would move that way, Chair. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The TEMPORARY CHAIR:</span>  There is no need to move it. It is just a request. Is the committee happy that we postpone the debate on opposition amendments (28) to (34) and (39) on sheets 8144, and that we move to another amendment? Is there any dissent in that? Everyone seems happy, and there is no dissent. Senator Cameron, what amendment would you like to go to? </span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
            <interjection>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>97</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">TEMPORARY CHAIR, The</name>
                  <name.id>10000</name.id>
                  <electorate />
                  <party />
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </interjection>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>97</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Cameron, Sen Doug</name>
                <name.id>AI6</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="AI6" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CAMERON</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">18:33</span>):  I seek leave to move items (40) and (41) on sheet 8144 together. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Leave granted. </span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>97</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Cameron, Sen Doug</name>
                <name.id>AI6</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="AI6" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CAMERON</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">18:33</span>):  I move items (40) and (41) on sheet 8144:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(40) Schedule 1, item 57, page 32 (after line 13), at the end of Part 4, add:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;" />
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">24A</span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">Application of amendments—presumption where records not provided</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">      Section 557C of the amended Act applies in relation to contraventions of civil remedy provisions that occur after the commencement of this Part.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(41) Schedule 1, page 32 (after line 13), at the end of the Schedule, add:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;" />
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">Part</span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">8—Records</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;font-style:italic;" />
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;font-style:italic;">Fair Work Act 2009</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;" />
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">1</span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">At the end of subsection</span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">535(3)</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">   Add:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Note: If an employer fails to comply with subsection (1), (2) or (3), the employer may bear the burden of disproving allegations in proceedings relating to a contravention of certain civil remedy provisions: see section 557C.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;" />
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">2</span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">Subsection</span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">536(2) (note)</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">   Omit "Note", substitute "Note 1".</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;" />
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">3</span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">At the end of subsection</span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">536(2)</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">   Add:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Note 2: If an employer fails to comply with subsection (1) or (2), the employer may bear the burden of disproving allegations in proceedings relating to a contravention of certain civil remedy provisions: see section 557C.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;" />
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">4</span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">Before section</span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">558</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">   Insert:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;" />
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">557C</span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">Presumption where records not provided</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(1) If:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">   (a) in proceedings relating to a contravention by an employer of a civil remedy provision referred to in subsection (3), an applicant makes an allegation in relation to a matter; and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">   (b) the employer was required:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">      (i) by subsection 535(1) or (2) to make and keep a record; or</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">      (ii) by regulations made for the purposes of subsection 535(3) to make available for inspection a record; or</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">      (iii) by subsection 536(1) or (2) to give a pay slip;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">      in relation to the matter; and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(c) the employer failed to comply with the requirement;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">the employer has the burden of disproving the allegation.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(2) Subsection (1) does not apply if the failure to comply was due to exceptional circumstances beyond the employer's control.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(3) The civil remedy provisions are the following:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">   (a) subsection 44(1) (which deals with contraventions of the National Employment Standards);</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">   (b) section 45 (which deals with contraventions of modern awards);</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">   (c) section 50 (which deals with contraventions of enterprise agreements);</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">   (d) section 280 (which deals with contraventions of workplace determinations);</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">   (e) section 293 (which deals with contraventions of national minimum wage orders);</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">   (f) section 305 (which deals with contraventions of equal remuneration orders);</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">   (g) subsection 323(1) (which deals with methods and frequency of payment);</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">   (h) subsection 323(3) (which deals with methods of payment specified in modern awards or enterprise agreements);</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">   (i) subsection 325(1) (which deals with unreasonable requirements to spend or pay amounts);</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">   (j) any other civil remedy provisions prescribed by the regulations.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I would like to thank the committee for their consideration of that very important discussion that we had, and maybe we can come back fairly quickly and deal with this in the near future. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Amendments (40) and (41) will make it easier for vulnerable workers to pursue their employer for unpaid wages. The Fair Work Act imposes obligations on employers to make, keep and provide payslips to employees. These amendments will ensure that, if an employer does not comply with its obligations and the employee alleges that they have been underpaid, it is the employer who has to prove that it has paid the employee correctly. It is a pretty simple position. We've had legislation moved recently by the government and the minister about payslips, but it is still a problem. It has not resolved the issues. What we want is the reverse onus, to make sure that where an employer has not met its legal obligations, under what the minister has put and what this parliament has agreed to, you reverse the onus of proof and make it easier for vulnerable workers to prosecute their case and not allow wage thieves to get out of their legal obligations because they have not complied with the law as it stands. Reversing the onus of proof on this is sensible. Reversing the onus of proof will support vulnerable workers. Reversing the onus of proof will make this legislation fairer. We are really keen to see this happen, because it would send out the message that we are not prepared to tolerate employers either not keeping wage slips or destroying wage slips and making it almost impossible for workers, especially vulnerable workers, to pursue their legitimate rights. If we really want to protect vulnerable workers, these two amendments will go a long way towards doing that.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>98</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Cash, Sen Michaelia</name>
                <name.id>I0M</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="I0M" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CASH</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Western Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister Assisting the Prime Minister for the Public Service, Minister for Employment and Minister for Women</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">18:36</span>):  The government opposes Labor's amendments (28) to (34) and (39). These amendments would reverse the onus of proof on employers who are the subject of a wage related claim and had not kept proper records. Reversing the onus of proof so that employers have to prove their innocence is unfair. It starts with a presumption that all employers are doing the wrong thing, with which we cannot agree. The vast majority of complaints to the Fair Work Ombudsman are actually about mistakes that are resolved cooperatively and quickly. This amendment, on the other hand, will encourage opportunistic claimants and punish small and medium businesses that make genuine mistakes. There is almost no scope for an employer faced with litigation by a disgruntled former employee to show that they made an honest mistake. In underpayment cases, the applicant bears the onus of proof and there is insufficient justification to change this fundamental principle of justice.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The government's policy under the bill is to further deter the small minority of wrongdoers who deliberately fail to meet their recordkeeping obligations under the act by increasing penalties for recordkeeping failures. Reversing the onus of proof will mean employees can claim they worked on days and times when they didn't work, and the employer will have to somehow prove that the employee did not work. This presumption of guilt, when the majority of employers do the right thing, is unworkable. As I said, it will punish small and medium-sized businesses that make genuine mistakes that are resolved cooperatively and very, very quickly.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>98</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Cameron, Sen Doug</name>
                <name.id>AI6</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="AI6" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CAMERON</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">18:39</span>):  The minister just gets up and makes points on the run. It really is getting to a stage where the argument is not being dealt with but the rhetoric from the minister is getting stronger. This is not about genuine mistakes.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I went through recently some of the Fair Work Ombudsman's decisions in enforceable undertakings, and the minister just seems to have forgotten that if somebody makes a genuine mistake then there is a well-established process within the Fair Work Ombudsman legislation to get enforceable undertakings. I'm a bit tired, quite frankly, of the Fair Work Ombudsman coming to estimates and running an argument that it's just all mistakes from employers and that we will do an enforceable undertaking when tens of thousands of dollars of workers' money has been stolen. That's what happens now. Tens of thousands of dollars are stolen from some of the most vulnerable workers in this country, and you get an enforceable undertaking. The enforceable undertaking, I think, has got a place, and the enforceable undertaking has got a place when there is a genuine mistake. But one company stole $60,000 in unpaid wages from ordinary workers, and an enforceable undertaking was put in place. The enforceable undertaking is not about paying the workers back quickly. They've got a payment schedule. Where else do you do a payment schedule when you've stolen from someone?</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The Fair Work Ombudsman has got so much flexibility now that this argument that a genuine mistake will get caught up in this is just another example where this minister is not genuine about protecting vulnerable workers, absolutely not genuine. The arguments that she has just gone through do not stand up to any scrutiny. Some of the other things in the enforceable undertakings decisions included tens of thousands of dollars stolen from workers, and the Fair Work Ombudsman saying to the company, 'Pay $5,000 to a charity, and that's you. On you go.' And a lot of these enforceable undertakings are breached and further enforceable undertakings imposed.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">An issue that I have with the operation of the Fair Work Ombudsman is that it is disingenuous. It is not correct to say that this would end up in a position where genuine mistakes would be punished. This is about an employer not keeping proper records. This is about an employer not having pay slips. I can go back to the speeches the minister made about how important it was, how the government were really attacking the ripping off of workers because they were enforcing extra laws in relation to the keeping of pay slips.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">So the minister's arguments have got no validity. Genuine mistakes are not the issue. We don't have a presumption that all employers are doing the wrong thing. But what we do know from the Fair Work Ombudsman—we know this from <span style="font-style:italic;">Four Corners</span>, we know this from the behaviour of Caltex, we know this from the behaviour of 7-Eleven—is that some employers carry out the most egregious theft against workers in this country. That's the reality of where we are and that's why we say the reverse onus of proof is important to ensure that vulnerable workers are protected. If an employer makes a mistake, there should be processes through enforceable undertakings and other means to deal with it. But what the minister is trying to say now is that you can breach the laws that I said were so important and there will be no problem for you. All the rhetoric and all the high-and-mighty arguments that we had about what a great job the government was doing by changing laws in relation to pay slips mean nothing when it comes to this government.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">We think the reverse onus of proof is absolutely essential to ensure that vulnerable workers are protected. Genuine mistakes will not be an issue. We don't presume that all employers do the wrong thing, but we do know that many employers do a terrible disservice—breach the law, steal workers' pay—and then hide behind having no pay slips. This is unacceptable, and I just think, again, that the minister's contribution demonstrates that this is not really about protecting vulnerable workers; it is about a fig leaf for this government to say it's doing something about it.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>99</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Xenophon, Sen Nick</name>
                <name.id>8IV</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party>NXT</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="8IV" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator XENOPHON</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">18:46</span>):  Senator Cameron, I understand the intent of it. This bill does include a number of provisions to actually deal with vulnerable workers so that we don't have a repeat of the 7-Eleven case. I think there is some consensus from the opposition that that will have a significant beneficial effect. I think the general principle is that there can be a role for reverse onus of proof in circumstances where it is necessary to deal with a particular mischief or a particular problem. But the question that I think will be put by small businesses is this: what happens where a false claim is made? What happens when someone says they worked certain hours when in fact they didn't? Let's assume that it's a rare occurrence. But I can imagine some small business operators will be saying, 'I've got a system in place for paying workers. I'll give them a pay slip in an envelope with cash'—if they don't have a computerised payroll. What do we do about issues of false claims?</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I can imagine that the reverse onus of proof for small and medium businesses could see some very significant litigation. In other words, the onus is on them to prove their innocence, and that itself could be a very costly exercise. I'm genuinely struggling with this amendment. I'm worried about unintended consequences. I would be grateful if the proponent of this amendment, Senator Cameron, could outline what he says will be the safeguards to minimise or prevent unintended consequences.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>99</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Cameron, Sen Doug</name>
                <name.id>AI6</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="AI6" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CAMERON</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">18:48</span>):  Just let me deal with the principle first. The principle that we are trying to deal with is the principle that the government claims it's trying to deal with, and that is the protection of vulnerable workers. That's the principle. The principle is not about protecting a small business that has written workers off and is stealing their wages. It's about protecting vulnerable workers.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I've been a blue-collar worker, and pay slips are not the only way that a company or a small business can demonstrate its bona fides in terms of that individual worker. The company will have bank statements. Some of those companies will have CCTV. Some companies clock on and clock off. There are a range of things that are not in the control of a vulnerable worker but which are in the control of a small business. They have more opportunity than a vulnerable worker does to prosecute their argument against any case someone brings against them that may not be a genuine case. So there are checks and balances.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">There are other checks and balances as well. The Fair Work Ombudsman itself is a check and balance. The Fair Work Commission is a check and balance. So there are other avenues for employers to deal with this. But if they have not got pay slips, which is a breach of the law that this minister brought in and said was such a great thing, if they breach that then the onus of proof should be reversed. The vulnerable worker doesn't have access to the information. The vulnerable worker is the one that's vulnerable. The small business, if it's a genuine small business, will be able to demonstrate its position and, even if it's done the wrong thing, it won't be targeted in an egregious way. That's what's been happening with the Fair Work Ombudsman and enforceable undertakings. So you've got enforceable undertakings, the Fair Work Commission, the Fair Work Ombudsman and the records that the company keeps. You've got the clock on/clock off records. You've got CCTV. It's all available to that small business. But the vulnerable worker is vulnerable. The vulnerable worker's the one that's left, mainly on their own, trying to deal with this, and that's an issue. That's why, Senator Xenophon, we say that the concerns you have are genuine concerns but should not stop us from dealing with this in a way that protects that vulnerable worker. The law requires a company to keep pay records and employment records. Small business, big business or massive business—under the law, you must keep pay records and employment records. That's an obligation. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Our amendment applies when an employer has not complied with the law, when they've breached the law. They should have to show why they haven't complied with the law. What is the problem here? I just don't understand it. The reverse onus does not apply if the failure was due to exceptional circumstances beyond the employer's control. The amendment means vulnerable workers in situations where pay slips and employment records haven't been provided have a fair chance of being looked after. This is about vulnerable workers. This is about the law as it stands now. This is about ensuring that wage theft, which is getting bigger and bigger under this minister's watch, is dealt with. It is fair. It's absolutely fair. Wage theft is getting bigger in this country; that is what the submissions to the inquiry say. There are problems here and you fix them by reversing the onus of proof.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>100</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Xenophon, Sen Nick</name>
                <name.id>8IV</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party>NXT</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="8IV" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator XENOPHON</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">18:53</span>):  The trouble with this place is that there's a lot of invective and a lot of long bows being drawn. I don't think it's fair to accuse the minister of increased wage theft. This is actually a beneficial and good piece of legislation that will tackle this issue. I think that's an unfairly partisan comment and is unhelpful in the context of this debate. I think Senator Cameron knows the genuine spirit in which I'm asking my questions. I do not want to unduly delay the committee stages of this bill, but this is an important amendment. My concern is that small businesses might find themselves in the Kafkaesque legal nightmare where, if somebody makes a false claim, they are presumed guilty unless they can prove themselves innocent.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Now, what I think Senator Cameron was saying—and it is not through a lack of Senator Cameron articulating it, because he knows this stuff inside out and backwards; I accept his expertise in this field—was this. This is about reverse onuses of proof. I've spoken about reverse onuses of proof recently, in terms of foreign bribery offences and the issue of the Commonwealth Bank and the money laundering matters that are very, very serious. What they do in other jurisdictions, when it comes to foreign bribery—for instance, in the UK, and the principles here would be similar—is this: if, as a business, you have a robust system in place of doing the right thing and you have processes in place, then that acts to protect you from unfair claims against you.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">If Senator Cameron were saying that, if a business is complying with the law and has a proper system of pay and pay slips, the requirement for the reverse onus of proof would apply in those circumstances—and I'm not suggesting Senator Cameron is saying that, but if that were what was being said—then that would be unfair. Say you had good employers who had proper systems in place to deal with their payroll and were compliant with the legislation, and then somebody made a claim saying, 'You haven't paid me.' If they had a system in place that was reasonable and robust, then why should that business be subject to a claim where they could be tied up in litigation and end up in court spending tens of thousands of dollars saying, 'Despite the fact that I have a process and a system in place, I'm being accused of not paying someone'? What do you do then? That's quite different from the circumstances where an employer has no system and doesn't comply with the provisions of this bill—or, indeed, with general employment standards in terms of payment. That's the contrast. So what I'm trying to genuinely appreciate here is: will those small and medium businesses that have done the right thing and have a system in place that is acceptable and fair have to be subject to a reverse onus of proof? That, to me, would be unfair.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>100</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Cameron, Sen Doug</name>
                <name.id>AI6</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="AI6" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CAMERON</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">18:57</span>):  Thanks, Senator Xenophon, for raising those issues. I just want to go to this issue. The law requires companies to keep pay records and employment records. So, where a company, a small business, is complying with the law, and they've got their pay records and their employment records, then there is no need for a reverse onus of proof.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="8IV" type="MemberInterjecting">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Xenophon:</span>
                    </a>  No need, or would it still apply?</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="AI6" type="MemberContinuation">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator CAMERON:</span>
                    </a>  It would not apply, because they would have the records. This reverse onus of proof is for where the company has not kept pay records and employment records, or has kept them but destroys them to make it difficult.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="8IV" type="MemberInterjecting">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Xenophon:</span>
                    </a>  I don't think it says that, though.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="I0M" type="MemberInterjecting">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Cash:</span>
                    </a>  It doesn't; it applies to everyone. It is a reverse onus—</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="AI6" type="MemberContinuation">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator CAMERON:</span>
                    </a>  If I can take you to page 12 of our amendment sheet 8144, there is a heading: '557C Presumption where records not provided'. What it says under (2) is:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Subsection (1) does not apply if the failure to comply was due to exceptional circumstances beyond the employer's control.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">But it also says:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(1) If:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">   (a) in proceedings relating to a contravention by an employer of a civil remedy provision … an applicant makes an allegation in relation to a matter; and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">   (b) the employer was required:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">      (i) by subsection 535(1) or (2) to make and keep a record; or</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">      (ii) by regulations made for the purposes of subsection 535(3) to make available for inspection a record; or</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">      (iii) by subsection 536(1) or (2) to give a pay slip;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">      in relation to the matter; and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(c) the employer failed to comply with the requirement;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">the employer has the burden of disproving the allegation.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">So, if they have breached the law—Senator Cash's law, that she brought in—then we are saying that the reverse onus of proof should apply. What is unfair about that?</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
            <interjection>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>100</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Xenophon, Sen Nick</name>
                  <name.id>8IV</name.id>
                  <electorate />
                  <party>NXT</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </interjection>
            <continue>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>100</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Cameron, Sen Doug</name>
                  <name.id>AI6</name.id>
                  <electorate />
                  <party>ALP</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </continue>
            <interjection>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>100</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Xenophon, Sen Nick</name>
                  <name.id>8IV</name.id>
                  <electorate />
                  <party>NXT</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </interjection>
            <interjection>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>100</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Cash, Sen Michaelia</name>
                  <name.id>I0M</name.id>
                  <electorate />
                  <party>LP</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </interjection>
            <continue>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>100</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Cameron, Sen Doug</name>
                  <name.id>AI6</name.id>
                  <electorate />
                  <party>ALP</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </continue>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>101</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Rhiannon, Sen Lee</name>
                <name.id>CPR</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party>AG</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="CPR" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator RHIANNON</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">19:00</span>):  From listening to the debate—through you, Chair, to Senator Xenophon—I wasn't hearing that the minister was being accused of actually conducting the wage theft herself, but, because we have a weak bill with built-in failures, the bill will allow wage theft to continue and to flourish.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">That's why we need this amendment. We really do need the amendment with regard to reversing the onus of proof. That's been set out very clearly. We need that reverse of the onus of proof for employers, and it needs to be in place. What is relevant here is the companies involved. If they've done the right thing, they've got nothing to fear under this amendment. They have a job to do and they've got their books to keep; that's all part of what they do. If they're doing the right thing, they have nothing to fear by this amendment. That's the essence of it here and why we need it.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Again, let's remember what we're dealing with and what the title of this bill is: 'protecting vulnerable workers'. There's a whole lot of holes in this bill that, as the debate goes on and the minister has to set out the details, become more apparent. This is one of them, and it's one of them that needs to be tightened up. That's why the Greens are supporting this amendment.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I think it's worth reminding ourselves of the background to the bill, because it is informative of where the government is coming from. This bill, the protecting vulnerable workers bill, wasn't the government's idea in the first instance. It came about because of all the scandalous stories out there. Again, let's remind ourselves: we're in such a privileged position with our work conditions, the wages we get and how we work. Yes, people in this place work incredibly hard, and I acknowledge that, but we're very privileged compared to these workers, who are often treated just so appallingly. That's why we need the tightest bill before us.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The government don't come from that background; they don't come from a position of doing the right thing by working people. Their job—why they are elected—is to look after the companies. We see that time and time again. Why they have now brought the bill forward is the media coverage of the scandals in so many major companies in this country, companies that we all interact with. We're coming across workers who clearly are being exploited as we buy our newspapers at the corner convenience shop or buy petrol at these big franchise companies.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">This was massive, and the government had to do something about it. But they have left too many holes in this. This one needs to be plugged; the amendment before us does that, and it deserves to be passed.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>101</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Xenophon, Sen Nick</name>
                <name.id>8IV</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party>NXT</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="8IV" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator XENOPHON</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">19:03</span>):  I think I understand the mischief that Senator Cameron is trying to deal with. I'm just doing what I'm being paid to do in the committee stages, to make sure there aren't unintended consequences.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">This is not a criticism of Senator Cameron at all, but I'm concerned about the proposed section 557C(2), which states:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Subsection (1) does not apply if the failure to comply was due to exceptional circumstances beyond the employer's control.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The reverse onus of proof provision would have to be read in the context of proposed subsection (2), and it is broader than may be envisaged. It's not a criticism. I have a genuine concern about the way in which it is drafted. I'm worried that a decent employer could be subject to an incredibly difficult situation where they have done the right thing and they have kept the right records but the way that subclause 2 is drafted would mean that the reverse onus of proof would apply in any event. But I also understand the flip side of that—if an employer doesn't have a proper system, has a disregard for having a proper system and is recklessly sloppy in the way they keep their records, the reverse onus of proof could apply.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The other aspect of this is that there might be some small family businesses that have longstanding employees. I hear this all the time. There might be three or four employees. The business has a not lax but very casual way of just handing over an envelope of cash with a pay slip. It's not a computerised system. I think that they should at least have a chance for some transitional provisions to make sure that those small employers don't fall foul of this. I'm still worried about false claims, but this is particularly about the drafting. Again, it is not a criticism. The way that subclause 2 would operate in conjunction with subclause 1 may mean—and I may be wrong in my interpretation of this—that the reverse onus of proof would apply even in cases where employers have a proper system of record keeping for the payment of wages.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Again, Senator Cameron, I've got a few meetings in this place in the next couple of hours. I'm happy to meet early in the morning to thrash this out with you and with the government. I'm sure people are frustrated and want to get this bill over and done with one way or the other. I think we need to be mindful of Senator Cameron's amendments and the work that he's done but also very cautious of unintended consequences. </span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>102</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Cameron, Sen Doug</name>
                <name.id>AI6</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="AI6" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CAMERON</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">19:07</span>):  I appreciate the proposition that you've put. We would be more than happy to meet with you, Senator Xenophon, and take you through this in some detail. I think it's a pretty simple proposition: if you comply with the law as it stands and you keep your employment records and your pay records then you don't have a problem. You don't suffer. I'll retract that. You're not then obliged to have the reverse onus of proof.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">What we are saying here is pretty simple: the law requires you to make and keep a record. It's not just about writing a little slip out to say, 'I'm going to pay you $1,000 this week,' handing it over and calling that a pay slip. That is not a pay slip. You have to keep a record. That's what the law says. So if you've made and kept a record, as you are obliged to do, the reverse onus of proof does not apply. I think it's pretty clear.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberIInterjecting">Senator Xenophon interjecting</span>—</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="AI6" type="MemberContinuation">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator CAMERON:</span>
                    </a>  If it's a false claim, you've got the records to prove it's a false claim, Senator Xenophon. You've got to make and keep a record. If it's a false claim then you've got access to the Fair Work Ombudsman, the Fair Work Commission and anywhere you want to resolve it. But these are issues of vulnerable workers. I'm not saying for one minute, Senator Xenophon, that you are, but we shouldn't be looking for ways to allow the wage theft that is growing in this country to continue. That is fundamental. If you have kept records and you have complied with the law as it stands now, then the reverse onus of proof does not apply. And our amendment on sheet 8144, section 557C 'Presumption where records not provided', if you go to (c) it says, if:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">… the employer failed to comply with the requirement; the employer has the burden of disproving the allegation.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xD;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xD;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">So there are two steps here. It's not as if someone just walks in and makes a false allegation. That doesn't work. It is not reverse onus if somebody just walks in and makes a false allegation. The reverse onus is where the employer failed to comply with the requirement. It's the legal requirement an employer has. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Why would we, in this place, after passing laws in relation to record keeping and pay slips, then say, 'If you don't do that, then this is an onerous burden on small business'. I do not think it's an onerous burden to comply with the law in relation to pay slips. If you're a small business, then you have got to do it. You have got to do it for taxation. You have got to make sure that you're not part of the black economy. You have got to make sure that workers who actually go and work don't have their wages stolen and that they get the pay that is due to them. This does not apply if the employer has kept the pay records. Then it becomes a dispute. If it's a dispute about the pay record itself, then the Fair Work Ombudsman is there and the Fair Work Commission is there. If the employee is lucky enough to be in a union, the unions can come in and support them in that application.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">If anyone is listening in, join a union and a lot of these things don't happen to you. Join a union; that will help. But we cannot have a proposition here where, if an employer fails to meet its obligations under the law, they can steal from an employee. That's what's happening at the moment. Some employers are deliberately breaching the law by not maintaining records and not providing pay slips, and then the onus is on the employee to try and prove that they have been ripped off. This reverse onus is about protecting vulnerable workers. That's what this minister says this is about. But she's been exposed again today about what is underlying this: that is, to come after the union movement and to have the Fair Work Ombudsman given more powers on industrial action. That's clear. But that has not been the stated position of this minister and it wasn't a submission from the department. Yet, during the committee period, we suddenly get this argument that this is about giving powers to the Fair Work Ombudsman on industrial action.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">That's why we are so concerned that workers get a fair go in this country. They won't get a fair go under this minister and they won't get a fair go under the coalition, and we need to make sure that if an employer doesn't comply with the law as it stands now that those workers are not subjected to an unfair and almost impossible argument to prove that they have been underpaid. It's up to the employer under this amendment. If the employer has not complied with the law of the land as it stands now, it's up to that employer to ensure that they have pay slips and that they have kept records. If they've kept pay slips, they've kept records, they've got CCTV, they've got bank payments to a worker or they've got a slip to say, 'I've paid the worker', then the reverse onus of proof is not an issue. But it is an issue if they've destroyed records. It is an issue if they've stolen from vulnerable workers. Wage theft is growing, and we want to deal with it.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">These are issues that we are more than happy to continue to discuss with you, Senator Xenophon. We've got a fair bit of work to do with you. I know how busy you are and how busy your office is, but you've made the offer to sit down with the opposition and deal with these aspects. We are happy to go through any of the aspects of our amendments, because our amendments are about genuinely protecting vulnerable workers. I don't think, Senator Xenophon, that you would argue that tonight we are putting up some kind of smokescreen. The issues we have raised are genuine issues. They are issues that the committee process was designed to try and deal with. You have used committee process properly and effectively to raise concerns you have about some of our amendments. We have said we will meet with you, we will discuss them with you and we will try to meet agreement with you on these issues.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">This is not about protecting some egregious rip-off of workers, whether it's a small business—you say 'small business' and suddenly a little halo appears above those two words as if the small business can do no wrong.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="8IV" type="MemberInterjecting">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Xenophon:</span>
                    </a>  I never said that.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="AI6" type="MemberContinuation">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator CAMERON:</span>
                    </a>  I'm not saying that you propose that, but certainly some of the rhetoric you hear from the other side is that small business can do no wrong. Small business can do a lot of wrong. Small businesses can egregiously rip off workers. They can steal from workers. It is our job as the legislature to make sure that vulnerable workers are not dealt with wrongly or illegally. These are the issues we are happy to sit down and talk to you about.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">We certainly support the Fair Work Ombudsman having general oversight and the power to deal with workers, but it's got to be done fairly. It hasn't got to be done on the basis of what we've discovered tonight because the minister has given the game away that this is about industrial action. That has not been raised anywhere until tonight. I think that part of the problem with this minister and with this government is that they will use any argument, any sleight of hand, any name for a bill—for example, calling it 'protecting vulnerable workers' bill when in reality it really is about trying to stop workers taking industrial action. We are not going to accept that. We are very concerned about that. We have come here with a range of amendments that are genuinely put for proper purposes, purposes consistent with what this minister says this bill is about: protecting vulnerable workers. It is not about imposing further restrictions on the genuine operation of bargaining and industrial action in this country. We are not going to accept for a minute what really is behind some of the views of this government to further restrict workers.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The Reserve Bank says there are problems because of low wage growth. Why have we got low wage growth? It is because we have some of the worst industrial laws in the advanced world. They make it so hard. The Reserve Bank is raising concerns about low wage growth and the implications that has for employment, a growing economy and inequality in this country. These are the issues we are concerned about. What we are putting here are amendments that are fair, proper and go to protecting vulnerable workers. It should not be a Trojan Horse to attack the trade union movement. It's about protecting vulnerable workers.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Progress reported.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
            <continue>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>102</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Cameron, Sen Doug</name>
                  <name.id>AI6</name.id>
                  <electorate />
                  <party>ALP</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </continue>
            <interjection>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>103</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Xenophon, Sen Nick</name>
                  <name.id>8IV</name.id>
                  <electorate />
                  <party>NXT</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </interjection>
            <continue>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>103</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Cameron, Sen Doug</name>
                  <name.id>AI6</name.id>
                  <electorate />
                  <party>ALP</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </continue>
          </speech>
        </subdebate.2>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>ADJOURNMENT</title>
        <page.no>103</page.no>
        <type>ADJOURNMENT</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <debate.text>
        <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
          <p class="HPS-Debate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Debate">ADJOURNMENT</span>
          </p>
        </body>
      </debate.text>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Jamison, Colonel David, AM</title>
          <page.no>103</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Jamison, Colonel David, AM</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>103</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">McGrath, Sen James</name>
              <name.id>217241</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>LP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="217241" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator McGRATH</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Assistant Minister to the Prime Minister</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">19:20</span>):  Many people and many organisations assist those who have served and those who are serving in the defence of our country, and their families. One organisation that I've had a bit to do with is the Defence Force Welfare Association. On Monday, their longstanding national president, Colonel David Jamison AM, announced his retirement. I met with David and his colleagues numerous times on a range of issues that impacted the Defence and veterans' community—from an Australian defence covenant, to recognition of awards for service and helping with veterans' super and veterans' support. David and his colleagues have met many people in this building and you would have seen him as a regular in corridors blue, green or red. I have always found David to be a genuine servant for the interests of Defence personnel and veterans. He has worked towards practical outcomes to improve life for them and their families. So tonight I want to pay tribute to David for his service and thank him, however briefly, for all his work and all the counsel that he's provided on behalf of the veterans' community.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">David was elected as a National President of the Defence Force Welfare Association in May 2007. An ex-Army ordnance officer, he served in the Australian Defence Force for 23 years in varying command positions, including command of the Army's Field Supply Battalion in the Operational Deployment Force in South Vietnam. He's been a member of the Returned and Services League since 1967 and President of the successful Ringwood RSL sub-branch since 2014. David also served as a member of the Department of Veterans' Affairs ex-service round table consultative forum. David's successes as National President are many. During his distinguished and successful 10-year tenure, the Defence Force Welfare Association has grown in its effectiveness as a representative advocacy body for better service conditions and support for all members of the Australian Defence Force, and their families, both during and after their periods of service. Moreover, the association has been at the forefront of promoting unity within the wider ex-service community. That unity has translated into a firmer, more cohesive and louder veterans' voice being heard within government and the media nationwide. David's drive and vision was instrumental to the formation in 2010 of the Alliance of Defence Service Organisations, which now includes 17 associations. More recently, David has worked towards the establishment of an even wider group of Defence community focused bodies, including the Returned and Services League and Legacy. Each member of this group has agreed to collaborate in an environment of respect and trust to better promote and protect the wellbeing of members of the Australian Defence and Veterans Community.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Arguably one of his greatest passions has been his work as a driving force to have the unique nature of military service recognised widely. I have spoken in this place before about my belief in properly recognising the service, and I can attest to the efforts and support that David has given to this cause. Indeed, in his very first ministerial statement on veterans and their families, Minister Dan Tehan stated with clarity: 'It is important that all Australians understand the unique nature of service.' David's considered advocacy has played an important role in bringing this concept to the forefront of our national consciousness, along with many others in the community who cannot all be named here tonight. Proper recognition of that concept can be of benefit to the serving and ex-service communities for many years to come. All governments can do better, but I'm proud that this coalition government is standing with our Defence and veterans' community and is committed to doing better where needed.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">To David and your family: thank you, and all the best for your future endeavours. To David's successor, Kel Ryan; to the executive director, Alf Jaugietis, who is here in the gallery this evening; and to the rest of the team at the Defence Force Welfare Association: I commend you and wish you all the best.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Building and Construction Industry</title>
          <page.no>104</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Building and Construction Industry</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>104</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Watt, Sen Murray</name>
              <name.id>245759</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="245759" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator WATT</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">19:24</span>):  I'm afraid the purpose of my speech tonight is to advise the Senate of yet another building firm collapse on the Gold Coast and the trail of wreckage that is being left behind in the form of subbies, suppliers and building workers who have been left owed millions of dollars by what appears to be the actions of a rogue building company owner.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Over the last few months, unfortunately, the Gold Coast has had a number of high-profile building firms collapse. It has involved companies such as the Cullen Group. The former Senator Bob Day's very own Newstart Homes is another example of a company which has been shut down while owing millions of dollars to suppliers, building workers, subcontractors, and home buyers who have paid deposits, never to see that money again. These building companies get shut down, often in very strange and dubious circumstances where, conveniently, just before the company is shut down owing millions of dollars, the assets of the company are moved into a different company, only to see the owners of the former company bob up running the new one in a few months time. That kind of activity has become known as phoenixing, where companies are shut down and the ashes are there as people are left owing millions of dollars in unpaid wages or bills. Just like a phoenix, a new company arises from the ashes, going on to do business and, in some cases, yet again to fail and to repeat those actions of ripping people off while the business owners get away scot-free.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">As I said, there have been a number of examples of this on the Gold Coast in recent months. I was very disturbed to read today in the <span style="font-style:italic;">Gold Coast Bulletin</span> of another example of this. A company called Queensland One Homes was put into liquidation last month. It appears that the collapse of this company has left 133 tradies and staff out of pocket by about $3.4 million. There are 35 would-be homeowners who paid deposits for their homes and have been left in limbo. It's very disturbing to see this happen again. It's very disturbing to see it happen over and over again with no action being taken by the federal government to fix our laws in ways that could prevent these collapses from happening and prevent these good, honest people from getting ripped off.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">What was even more concerning in this report in the <span style="font-style:italic;">Gold Coast Bulletin</span> was that there is a related company involved with the same directors. It is a company called Empire Constructions Pty Ltd, which is under investigation for suspected illegal phoenixing activity. The Queensland Building and Construction Commission has confirmed that it is investigating Empire Constructions and has received allegations of illegal phoenix activity. The connection here is that a particular director of Queensland One Homes, Mr Paul Callender, is also a previous director of Empire Constructions. While this obviously does need to be investigated, it does seem to be another example on the Gold Coast of this phoenix activity where companies are run into the ground, bills are racked up and people are duped into preforming work and providing services and supplies to a company, never to be paid, while the directors of those companies get away scot-free and then go and set up a new business down the road and go on making lots of money only to, in many cases, do it all again.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">For months now, Labor has been calling for action to be taken on this issue to crack down on phoenix activity. We have put forward a number of policies which could be picked up by this government to try to stop this sort of thing from happening. Some of the things that we've proposed include simply lifting the penalties on people who are repeat offenders in phoenix activity.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">One particular proposal we've put forward is to require all company directors to have an ID number. Part of the problem here is that people can't keep track of these serial offenders—these directors of companies who, over and over again, set up companies, close them down while owing money and then go down the road and set up a new one. If you're a supplier to a building company, if you're a building worker or if you're a subbie, you've got no way of knowing whether the company that you've signed up to work with has a history in ripping people off and not paying its bills on time. By moving towards requiring all directors in Australian companies to have that kind of an ID number people would be able to keep track of that sort of activity; our regulators would be able to keep track of people who do this kind of thing over and over again and take action against them; and people who supply their services or their labour to the building industry would have some confidence, when taking on a particular job, that they might actually be paid.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Now, it's remarkable to see that in Australia at the moment it is actually easier to become a company director than it is to open a bank account. We've all opened bank accounts over the years, and these days there is a system where you have to come forward with 100 identification points. You've got to put forward your drivers licence, your credit card and a range of other identifying documents in order to open a bank account. There are none of those requirements to become a company director in Australia, and that's why it is so easy for these people to do the wrong thing and to be able to move from company to company with no-one actually keeping tabs on what they do.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">There are a range of organisations in the community that have supported Labor's proposal to require directors of companies to have an ID number. And, no, it is not only building unions—even though they are supportive. There are actually some surprising groups who have endorsed this policy. There is the Productivity Commission, which is not known as a radical left-wing organisation, and it has also been endorsed by the Australian Institute of Company Directors. The very group that represents company directors thinks this is a good thing and that it would hold up the reputation of company directors.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">So, really, we've got a situation where the Turnbull government and its LNP members on the Gold Coast are left isolated. They are the one group who are holding out and refusing to take up this proposal from Labor to require directors of companies to have an identification number so that people can keep track of the rogue operators who are going to rip them off. Surely now, after yet another collapse by a Gold Coast building company, just one of the federal Gold Coast members of parliament—there are five of them; federally, there are five LNP members of parliament who represent the Gold Coast in this place—could come out and support Labor's proposal to increase penalties on people who engage in phoenix activity and to require directors to have an ID number. We would be able to stop these tragedies from happening in the future; we would be able to stop building suppliers, subbies and building workers from getting ripped off.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Construction is one of the main industries on the Gold Coast, and we will keep seeing these kinds of collapses and these kinds of rip-offs happening if we don't start taking some action. I really do wonder how many building firm collapses and how many millions of dollars will have to be lost by people on the Gold Coast before just one of the five federal LNP members stands up and backs in their local workers and their local small businesses? Time after time in this place we hear the Liberal Party representatives get up and say they are the guardians of small business and that they are the group who are out there fighting for small business. Here, again, we have many small businesses who are losing millions of dollars through no fault of their own—through actually doing the right thing by turning up and delivering building services and delivering their labour, and getting nothing out of it in return.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">It's time for the LNP to put their money where their mouth is. If they really are the friends of small business then they will back in Labor's proposal to try to stop these sorts of things happening again. I don't want to wake up and see more headlines, like those I read this morning, about more building firms going under and owing millions of dollars. We can actually take action to fix this sort of thing. It doesn't really take a lot of effort. All it takes is for the federal LNP members to pick up Labor's proposal and we can stop this from happening in the future.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Freedom of Religion</title>
          <page.no>106</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Freedom of Religion</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>106</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Leyonhjelm, Sen David</name>
              <name.id>111206</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>LDP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="111206" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator LEYONHJELM</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">19:33</span>):  I would like to make some brief observations on the challenge of Islamism to the liberal democratic state.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Contrary to the views of some, liberalism does not mean tolerance of pretty much anything. In his important book, <span style="font-style:italic;">The Open Society </span><span style="font-style:italic;">and </span><span style="font-style:italic;">its Enemies</span>, philosopher Karl Popper outlined the paradox of tolerance: that unlimited tolerance must lead to the end of tolerance because, by definition, the intolerant seek its elimination and, faced with no resistance, they will prevail.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">In his letter concerning toleration, the great exponent of classical liberalism, John Locke, neatly summed up the issue for liberalism when he argued that faiths that were tolerant of others should be respected, but those which advocated the suppression of other faiths did not deserve the freedom which they themselves sought to deny. Clearly, freedom of religious belief, including the right to have no religious belief, is an inalienable right in any free society. It's not a right granted by government; it can only be taken by government.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">However, the right to believe something and advocate for it cannot extend to actions which seek to suppress the same right of others to hold beliefs which are different. To mean anything, liberty of conscience must have limits. Those limits are, of necessity, the points at which the liberty of conscience of one individual would impinge on that of another. So, if you claim that your religious beliefs justify coercion towards others, then you have gone beyond exercising your own freedom to deny it to others. Someone simply claiming a religious justification for coercion or its advocacy should not exempt them from accountability in law; otherwise, our pretensions to being a free society will quickly unravel. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">This is why the very concept of sharia law strikes at the heart of the liberal society and is an anathema to the Liberal Democrats. In a liberal society, the rights and obligations of individuals should reflect the practical requirements of living and working together in a way that maximises the individual freedom of all. If you choose to limit your choices or actions because of your own religious beliefs, that should be your right. However, seeking to impose such limitations on others by force of law, even on those who are fellow members of your religion, is fundamentally incompatible with liberal democracy.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">We in the Liberal Democrats respect the right of individual Muslims to practice their faith, just as we respect the rights of Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Hindus and every other faith. However, we utterly condemn those Muslims who advocate intolerance, oppression or violence and who seek to use their religion to justify this. They are not exercising religious freedom; they are using faith as a cover for tyranny. Those who seek to use their beliefs as a Trojan horse for an authoritarian political agenda must be denounced by everyone who supports freedom, not only because it's contrary to our values as a nation, but because to tolerate it actively undermines our liberty. Tolerance of intolerance is not liberalism but the abrogation of it; therefore anyone who is prepared to tolerate Islamism cannot legitimately call themselves a liberal.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Freedom of Religion</title>
          <page.no>106</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Freedom of Religion</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>106</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Smith, Sen Dean</name>
              <name.id>241710</name.id>
              <electorate />
              <party>LP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="241710" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator SMITH</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Western Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Deputy Government Whip in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">19:37</span>):  One of the joys of being a senator is that on too frequent an occasion, I'm afraid to say, you get to listen to some very insightful contributions about contemporary issues. In this place, many of us will agree with things that Senator Leyonhjelm has to say and others will disagree very strongly with what he has to say. But can I just compliment Senator Leyonhjelm on what is a very considered response to what is a very contemporary issue, and I just wanted to note those remarks in the last few minutes before the adjournment.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="text-align:center;direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span style="font-weight:bold;" />
                  <span style="font-weight:bold;">Senate adjourned at 19:38</span>
                </span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>106</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <debate.text>
        <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
          <p class="HPS-Debate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Debate">DOCUMENTS</span>
          </p>
        </body>
      </debate.text>
      <subdebate.2>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Tabling</title>
          <page.no>106</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Tabling</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Normal">The following documents were tabled by the Clerk pursuant to statute:</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Small">[<span style="font-style:italic;">Legislative instruments are identified by a Federal Register of Legislation (FRL) number. An explanatory statement is tabled with an instrument unless otherwise indicated by an asterisk.</span>]</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Small">
                <span style="font-style:italic;">A New Tax System (Goods and Services Tax) Act 1999</span>—Goods and Services Tax: Waiver of Tax Invoice Requirement (Corporate Card Statements) Legislative Instrument 2017 [F2017L01018].</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Small">
                <span style="font-style:italic;">Australian Bureau of Statistics Act 1975</span>—Business Characteristics Survey—Proposal No. 8 of 2017.</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Small">
                <span style="font-style:italic;">Australian Citizenship Act 2007</span>—Australian Citizenship (IMMI 17/073: Declared Terrorist Organisation—Jabhat Al-Nusra) Declaration 2017—IMMI 17/073 [F2017L01031].</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Small">
                <span style="font-style:italic;">Australian Prudential Regulation Authority Act 1998</span>—Australian Prudential Regulation Authority (confidentiality) determination—No. 1 of 2017 [F2017L01027].</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Small">
                <span style="font-style:italic;">Banking Act 1959, Insurance Act 1973, Life Insurance Act 1995 and Superannuation Industry (Supervision) Act 1993</span>—Banking, Insurance, Life Insurance and Superannuation (prudential standard) determination No. 1 of 2017 – Prudential Standard CPS 226 Margining and risk mitigation for non-centrally cleared derivatives [F2017L01030].</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Small">
                <span style="font-style:italic;">Currency Act 1965</span>—Currency (Perth Mint) Determination (No. 2) 2017 [F2017L01024].</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Small">
                <span style="font-style:italic;">Defence Act 1903</span>—Defence (Prohibited Substance Tests) Determination 2017 [F2017L01017].</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Small">
                <span style="font-style:italic;">Environment Protection and Biodiversity Conservation Act 1999</span>—</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Small">Amendment to the lists of threatened species, threatened ecological communities and key threatening processes under sections 178, 181 and 183 (198) (4 August 2017) [F2017L01021].</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Small">Amendment to the lists of threatened species, threatened ecological communities and key threatening processes under sections 178, 181 and 183 (199) (4 August 2017) [F2017L01025].</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Small">
                <span style="font-style:italic;">Family Law Act 1975</span>—Family Law (Superannuation) Regulations 2001—Family Law (Superannuation) (Interest Rate for Adjustment Period) Determination 2017 [F2017L00471]—Replacement explanatory statement.</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Small">
                <span style="font-style:italic;">Financial Sector (Collection of Data) Act 2001</span>—</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Small">Financial Sector (Collection of Data) (reporting standard) determination No. 2 of 2017 – ARS 731.1 International Banking Statistics – Locational Data [F2017L01022].</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Small">Financial Sector (Collection of Data) (reporting standard) determination No. 3 of 2017 – ARS 731.3A International Banking Statistics – Immediate and Ultimate Risk Exposures – Domestic Entity [F2017L01026].</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Small">Financial Sector (Collection of Data) (reporting standard) determination No. 4 of 2017 – ARS 731.3B International Banking Statistics – Immediate and Ultimate Risk Exposures – Foreign Entity [F2017L01028].</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Small">Financial Sector (Collection of Data) (reporting standard) determination No. 5 of 2017 – ARS 731.4 International Banking Statistics – Balance Sheet Items [F2017L01033].</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Small">
                <span style="font-style:italic;">Fuel Quality Standards Act 2000</span>—Fuel Quality Standards Amendment (Miscellaneous Measures) Regulations 2017 [F2017L01029].</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Small">
                <span style="font-style:italic;">Lands Acquisition Act 1989</span>—Statement describing property acquired by agreement for specified purposes.</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Small">
                <span style="font-style:italic;">Migration Act 1958</span>—Migration Regulations 1994—Migration (IMMI 17/018: Working Holiday Visa – Specified Work and Regional Australia) Instrument 2017—IMMI 17/018 [F2017L01032].</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Small">
                <span style="font-style:italic;">Screen Australia Act 2008</span>—Screen Australia Regulations 2017 [F2017L01020].</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Small">
                <span style="font-style:italic;">Therapeutic Goods Act 1989</span>—</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Small">Therapeutic Goods Order No. 91A – Therapeutic Goods Order No. 91 (Standard for labels of prescription and related medicines) Amendment Order 2017 [F2017L01019].</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Small">Therapeutic Goods Order No. 92A – Therapeutic Goods Order No. 92 (Standard for labels of non-prescription medicines) Amendment Order 2017 [F2017L01023].</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
      </subdebate.2>
      <subdebate.2>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Tabling</title>
          <page.no>107</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">
                <span style="font-weight:bold;font-style:italic;" />Tabling</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Normal">The following documents were tabled pursuant to standing order 61(1)(b):</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Small">
                <span style="font-style:italic;">Australian Small Business and Family Enterprise Ombudsman Act 2015</span>—Review of the Australian Small Business and Family Enterprise Ombudsman—Report, dated 19 June 2017.</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Small">Treaty—<span style="font-style:italic;">Multilateral</span>—Multilateral Convention to Implement Tax Treaty Related Measures to Prevent Base Erosion and Profit Shifting (Paris, 7 June 2017)—Text, together with national interest analysis.</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
      </subdebate.2>
    </debate>
  </chamber.xscript>
</hansard>