﻿
<hansard noNamespaceSchemaLocation="../../hansard.xsd" version="2.2">
  <session.header>
    <date>2024-11-18</date>
    <parliament.no>2</parliament.no>
    <session.no>1</session.no>
    <period.no>0</period.no>
    <chamber>Senate</chamber>
    <page.no>0</page.no>
    <proof>0</proof>
  </session.header>
  <chamber.xscript>
    <business.start>
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        <p class="HPS-SODJobDate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
          <span class="HPS-SODJobDate">
            <span style="font-weight:bold;" />
            <a href="Chamber" type="">Monday, 18 November 2024</a>
          </span>
        </p>
        <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
          <span class="HPS-Normal">
            <span style="font-weight:bold;">The PRESIDENT (Senator </span>
            <span style="font-weight:bold;">the Hon. </span>
            <span style="font-weight:bold;">Sue Lines</span>
            <span style="font-weight:bold;">)</span> took the chair at 10:00, made an acknowledgement of country and read prayers.</span>
        </p>
      </body>
    </business.start>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>4651</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Tabling</title>
          <page.no>4651</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>4651</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Meeting</title>
          <page.no>4651</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:01</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>If there are no objections, the meetings are authorised.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BUSINESS</title>
        <page.no>4651</page.no>
        <type>BUSINESS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Rearrangement</title>
          <page.no>4651</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:01</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to move a motion to provide for the consideration of two censure motions today.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank the Senate. There are two motions which the government is seeking to move this morning. I will speak to both of them and then move them separately. One is in relation to behaviour by Senator Thorpe and one is in relation to behaviour by Senator Babet.</para>
<para>The government moves these motions reluctantly. We know both senators are engaging in these behaviours precisely in order to get attention—engaging in actions and stunts designed to create storms on social media but offering nothing of substance to improve anyone's life. These are actions which seek to incite outrage and grievance to actually boost their own profiles, and this is part of a trend that we do see internationally but, quite frankly, we do not need here in Australia. We should deny them the attention they seek, but, in doing so, we should also signal the upholding of standards of respect when we have dignitaries visit our parliament—in Senator Thorpe's case, no less than the head of state—and standards of respect when it comes to talking about our fellow Australians, in Senator Babet's case, deliberate abuse of some of our fellow Australians. I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the routine of business before the attendance by the Minister representing the Minister for the National Disability Insurance Scheme today be:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) consideration of a motion to be moved by Senator Wong proposing the censure of Senator Thorpe; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) consideration of a motion to be moved by Senator Wong proposing the censure of Senator Babet.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>MOTIONS</title>
        <page.no>4652</page.no>
        <type>MOTIONS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Thorpe, Senator Lidia</title>
          <page.no>4652</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Censure</title>
            <page.no>4652</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:03</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) expresses its profound disapproval of Senator Thorpe's disrespectful and disruptive protest at the Parliamentary Reception for Their Majesties King Charles III and Queen Camilla on 21 October 2024 given that the senator has many other avenues to express her views;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) censures Senator Thorpe for the disruptive and disrespectful conduct at the Parliamentary Reception and for her disrespect of democratic institutions, including our Parliament of which she is a member;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) calls on all senators to respect our democratic institutions, including our Parliament, to engage in debates and commentary respectfully, and to refrain from inflammatory and divisive actions which reflect poorly on the Senate, both inside and outside the chamber, at all times;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(d) in light of this conduct, does not regard it as appropriate for Senator Thorpe to represent the Senate as a member of any delegation during the life of this parliament; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(e) notes that arrangements for future parliamentary addresses by visiting leaders has been referred to the Procedure Committee.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:03</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I echo the words of Senator Wong in terms of the deep concern at the behaviour that pursues attention seeking and, in the pursuit of attention seeking, brings this chamber into disrespect and reflects poorly upon the conduct of senators through the actions of just a few.</para>
<para>In relation to Senator Thorpe, let me be clear: this motion is not about what she said and it is not about her right to say it or her views. Those we defend. But it is about the conduct that was undertaken and the disruptive, disorderly and disrespectful approach that reflected so poorly upon all senators and this chamber and brought us into disrepute. That is why it is worthy and warranted of censure. Our urging of all senators remains to engage thoughtfully in the issues to find ways to pursue them. We are all provided with a platform to speak, unlike anything that almost any other Australian enjoys. We should use that platform with not only respect and care but, indeed, passion to pursue our views, no matter how vehemently each of us may disagree with them or, indeed, occasionally be offended by them.</para>
<para>President, in relation to Senator Thorpe, I also reference the controversy that followed in the days after the King's visit. As you're aware, I wrote to you in relation to both what occurred in the Great Hall and Senator Thorpe's conduct at that time. I thank you for agreeing to the Procedure Committee considering that incident and look forward to the deliberations of that committee in considering how it is that this Senate may best uphold the importance of the opportunities provided for this parliament and governments of the day to give opportunities to visiting dignitaries, be they our head of state, the reigning sovereign and monarch, or visiting dignitaries in the form of heads of other countries or governments of other countries.</para>
<para>The actions and the increasing pattern we've seen of disruptive conduct endanger the ability of governments of the day to provide that platform without visiting guests believing that they may be disrespected and that their visit may be brought into disrepute. Considering, through the procedure committee, those opportunities for this chamber to have greater power, outside of its own sittings, over formal occasions of the parliament to be able to try to discourage and remove the incentive for senators to behave in such disrespectful and disorderly ways is, I think, an important thing.</para>
<para>The other aspect of the controversy that flowed on in the days after that event was in relation to Senator Thorpe's statements about her affirmation of office and the compliance with that with regard to section 42 of the Constitution. President, I appreciate your reply to me. I invite you, at an appropriate time, to ensure that the chamber is informed such that this is properly on the public record with regard to the assessment by you, on advice from the Clerk and after consideration of the legal principles. Many of us have, unfortunately, lived through the disruptions in relation to eligibility requirements for election to this parliament. Section 42 goes to a different matter in relation to eligibility to take up a seat in the chamber following election. It is, nonetheless, a very important one.</para>
<para>I am sure that, like me, all senators have received a vast volume of correspondence from people concerned about what appeared to be a statement denying that the proper affirmation had taken place. That is very serious. Equally, we appreciate the constitutional duties and responsibilities that you have to uphold the terms of the Constitution, as interpreted and applied within relevant acts, and our standing orders as they are set out. That is why I think it is critical for you to place on the record the assessment that has been undertaken such that all senators are able to refer to that in the correspondence and reassurance they give to constituents about the validity of every person to sit and exercise their votes in this place.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I will take up the invitation as you've offered it.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:09</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARUQI</name>
    <name.id>250362</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>What a disgrace Labor and the Liberals are, calling for Senator Thorpe to be censured for telling the truth about invasion, dispossession and the genocide of First Nations people in this country. That is just contemptible. I thought we still lived in a democracy. We have a right to protest. We have a right to dissent. We have a right to disrupt. That's what Senator Thorpe did. But you want to police black women. You want to police the way we, black and brown people, disrupt and dissent. You want us to be boxed into what a white supremacist system sees as the right way to protest and dissent.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Faruqi, resume your seat. Senator Wong.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Wong</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I ask that that be withdrawn.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Faruqi, I'll ask you to withdraw, in the interests of the chamber, the comments that you've made in relation to people's colour.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARUQI</name>
    <name.id>250362</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Sorry, President, I don't understand why that went against the rules.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I am not suggesting it goes against the rules. What I said to you was that, in the interests of harmony across the chamber, I would ask you to withdraw those comments.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARUQI</name>
    <name.id>250362</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>President, when black and brown people are being vilified and attacked left, right and centre, where is the harmony for them?</para>
<para>Honourable senators interjecting—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! Please resume your seat, Senator Faruqi. Senators who are interjecting, I remind you I am dealing with this matter, and I am asking you to be silent. Senator Faruqi, I asked you, in the interests of the chamber, to either accept my advice or reject my advice, but you are not in a debate with me. I will invite you once again to withdraw those comments.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARUQI</name>
    <name.id>250362</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I withdraw, just so you can allow me to speak, because here in this chamber our voices are shut down.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Faruqi—</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARUQI</name>
    <name.id>250362</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I withdraw.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you. Please continue.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARUQI</name>
    <name.id>250362</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Where was the harmony, where was the disrepute of this chamber when Senator Hanson racially vilified me, when both Labor and the Liberals joined up to not censure her? Now, the Federal Court has found in a very strong ruling that Senator Pauline Hanson racially vilified me and fell foul of the Racial Discrimination Act. Will you be ashamed now? Will you censure her too? You are very quick to censure a black woman, but do nothing when a brown woman is racially vilified by a colleague in this workplace. I hope you can hang your heads in shame.</para>
<para>It is true that the bubble of white privilege that encapsulates this parliament is a systemic issue, and that is why we are here today debating a black senator being censured for telling the truth of the British Crown's genocide on First Nations people and telling it the way that she wants to. Stop attacking and vilifying First Nations people, brown people, refugees and migrants, which is what is happening at the moment in this country. For once, sit down and listen to First Nations people. Listen to their truth and the way they want to tell it. Listen to their truth of how the British crown wreaked havoc on First Nations people here and on people of colour around the world.</para>
<para>The truth is the British Empire and the colonial forces have inflicted huge suffering and horrific atrocities on First Nations people, but you want to shut that down. You want First Nations people who tell their truth to shut up because you don't like the way they tell the truth. You want them to be polite. There are First Nations people who are being killed in custody. First Nations people bear the worst of racism and discrimination in this country, but that's all fine. Let's shut down a black woman who talks about it.</para>
<para>Truth-telling is uncomfortable. It should be uncomfortable, so feel that discomfort a bit, hear it and try and do something about it. Preserving the British monarchy is to preserve white supremacy and the systemic racist structures that were built by the empire and that persist and that harm, hurt and kill people to this day. You know what? It is time for this country to embrace a republic which is rooted in decolonisation and sovereignty for First Nations peoples, but you're not going to listen to this. You're not going to listen to people in any other way, shape or form unless we scream and shout and force you to listen. The Greens vehemently oppose this censure motion against Senator Thorpe.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:15</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CANAVAN</name>
    <name.id>245212</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I don't debate the merits of this motion. I'm not going to go into those in detail. Others have made their cases. I do have a point about process that I would like to make briefly. My understanding is Senator Thorpe is not here at the moment and, without foreshadowing the <inline font-style="italic">Notice Paper</inline>, I think we will have a similar situation next.</para>
<para>A censure motion should be one of the more serious processes and motions we debate in this chamber. I think we diminish and reduce its seriousness by calling on this debate at a time when the senator in question is not even here to be provided with a right of reply or to provide a defence. I think we're cheapening this measure here by doing it in this way. I support the motion the government is putting forward, but I also absolutely support the right of my colleague Senator Thorpe to be in the chamber to hear the arguments against her and to be in the chamber to respond to those arguments, if she so chooses to. But that right has been denied her, because the government has brought this on in what can only be described as a kangaroo-court fashion where the defendant is not even here to defend herself. That process should be condemned, and I hope there is not a precedent being set in this place where we do not treat our colleagues with respect.</para>
<para>There is no doubt that the conduct of Senator Thorpe has been widely condemned across our society, and I think it was regrettable that what should have been a special moment for many Australians was diminished by her conduct, but we ourselves don't correct that sin by not upholding proper standards of process in this place. I believe the Leader of the Government is to get up here, and maybe she could respond to my points about why the government has brought this on without allowing a Senate colleague to defend themselves on a motion of this seriousness.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:17</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>There are a few points. First, this was discussed with your leader, Senator Canavan, and we will make—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Canavan</name>
    <name.id>245212</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>That doesn't defend your position.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I listened to you, Senator Canavan. We will make time available for Senator Thorpe to speak. We are mindful, as I said at the outset, that both she and Senator Babet are doing this in order to create more attention, and you have assisted and facilitated more of that this morning.</para>
<para>Senator Faruqi, our position on Senator Hanson and her views is longstanding. Our position on her views in relation to race precedes—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Faruqi</name>
    <name.id>250362</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>You still refused to censure her.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I listened to you. This is the point: you wish us to listen to you, but you do not wish to listen to us. You denigrate us, and you use words like you used in your speech in order to denigrate.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Wong, I advise you to direct your comments to the chair.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I hope that goes both ways, Senator. I would remind you, Senator Faruqi, that when Senator Hanson first raised her views on Asian immigration—about Australia being swamped by Asians—there were many of us inside the Labor Party and inside the community who worked, protested and advocated against her. I would also remind you of the motion we passed in support of you and the speech I gave in support of you in relation to her words about you. I just would remind you of that.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Faruqi</name>
    <name.id>250362</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>It's still not censure.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>We seem to have come to a place where senators' behaviour in this place and beyond is designed to cause outrage, is designed to gain media attention and so often does not reflect well on this chamber and on what Australians expect of us, having been sent here. We have enormous privilege being here. We have, legally, absolute privilege in this place, and that should be exercised with a degree of responsibility and respect for the other.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the censure motion regarding the conduct of Senator Thorpe, as moved by Senator Wong, be agreed to?</para>
<para> </para>
<para> </para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [10:25] <br />(The President—Senator Lines)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>46</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Askew, W.</name>
                  <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                  <name>Birmingham, S. J.</name>
                  <name>Brockman, W. E.</name>
                  <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Cash, M. C.</name>
                  <name>Chandler, C.</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A.</name>
                  <name>Darmanin, L.</name>
                  <name>Davey, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D. E.</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, D. J.</name>
                  <name>Gallagher, K. R.</name>
                  <name>Ghosh, V.</name>
                  <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                  <name>Grogan, K.</name>
                  <name>Henderson, S. M.</name>
                  <name>Hume, J.</name>
                  <name>Kovacic, M.</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J.</name>
                  <name>Liddle, K. J.</name>
                  <name>Lines, S.</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M.</name>
                  <name>McDonald, S. E.</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B.</name>
                  <name>McLachlan, A. L.</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, M. A.</name>
                  <name>Polley, H.</name>
                  <name>Rennick, G.</name>
                  <name>Reynolds, L. K.</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M. I.</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A.</name>
                  <name>Scarr, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Sharma, D. N.</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                  <name>Smith, D. A.</name>
                  <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                  <name>Stewart, J. N. A.</name>
                  <name>Tyrrell, T. M.</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, A. E. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                  <name>Wong, P.</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>12</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Canavan, M. J.</name>
                  <name>Cox, D.</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                  <name>Hodgins-May, S.</name>
                  <name>McKim, N. J. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                  <name>Shoebridge, D.</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, P. S.</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names />
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division></subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Babet, Senator Ralph</title>
          <page.no>4655</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Censure</title>
            <page.no>4655</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:27</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I now move the motion in relation to the conduct of Senator Babet, as circulated in my name:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) censures Senator Babet for his inflammatory use of hate speech, designed to drive division for his own political benefit;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) assures all Australians that no matter their race, religion, gender, sex, or sexuality they are valued, welcome members of our society;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) affirms that, if Parliament is to be a safe place for all who work and visit here, there can be no tolerance for hate speech in the course of parliamentarians' public debate; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(d) calls on all senators to engage in debates and commentary respectfully, and to refrain from inflammatory and divisive comments, both inside and outside the chamber, at all times.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:27</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I know the Leader of the Government spoke when moving the procedural motion at the outset. In the case of Senator Thorpe, I made it clear that the opposition's support for the censure was not because we denied her the right to say the things that she said but because we were appalled at the way in which she said them and the time and place in which she sought to pursue those issues.</para>
<para>In the case of this motion of censure of Senator Babet, the words that he has placed on the public record are repugnant, are abhorrent and have no place in proper, orderly civil conduct and debate in 2024. People are free to be warriors—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! Senator Thorpe, you are out of order. Senator Thorpe, come to order.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Thorpe</name>
    <name.id>280304</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Why wasn't I allowed to be here? Shame on you all!</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Thorpe, I have called you to order! Senator Birmingham, please continue.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>As I was saying in relation to Senator Babet, the remarks are repugnant, abhorrent and have no place in the civil discourse of 2024. People are free to rail against political correctness or so-called 'wokeism', but the way to do that is not to offend your fellow Australians, demean your fellow Australians or engage in conduct that, long ago, was seen to be completely socially unacceptable and that certainly should not be tolerated in supposed leaders of our country, the elected senators of this parliament.</para>
<para>We don't wish to see the Senate have to become the word police or the thought police for senators. We again look forward to discussions in Procedure Committee as to how we manage these issues. But there is a point and time where conduct and language are so appalling that the Senate needs to make its opinion clear. We made it clear, in relation to conduct, just before. We make it clear now, in relation to conduct and language. When it comes to Senator Babet, I think what we saw, in the midst of my remarks, simply amplifies the point that Senator Wong made at the outset—that, of course, these instances of conduct are all too much about attention seeking and trying to gain a relevance that otherwise is not supported by the electorate or by the vast and overwhelming majority of Australians.</para>
<para>Although, in a country like ours, it is the job of our free press to report properly upon the proceedings of this parliament and the debates that occur, I would urge them to consider the weight they give to such minority outbursts and the elevation that they provide to minority outbursts and incendiary or inflammatory or insulting language used by individual members of parliament, when the weight they give those things only amplifies them in ways that those individuals do not deserve to have amplified and only fosters the type of division that those of us who wish to focus on the good governance of this country would wish to avoid.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:32</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CANAVAN</name>
    <name.id>245212</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I want to make clear that I would have voted for this censure motion. I had taken the opportunity to call Senator Babet this morning, after I found out about this, and let him know that, while I consider him a mate, I didn't at all support the statements he made. They were reprehensible, as the Leader of the Opposition said, and they're not the sort of conduct that senators in this place, senators of this country, should engage in. But, again, I'll have to make the same point I made earlier: Senator Babet—like Senator Thorpe—deserves to be here in this place to hear these arguments and potentially to defend himself.</para>
<para>When I rose in the earlier debate, I actually was still of a mind to vote for the motions of censure of Senator Thorpe and Senator Babet, but, with all respect, I couldn't in good conscience do that after the inept response from the Leader of the Government. She made no attempt to outline why this process has been brought on at this time—what the urgency of it is. My understanding is that those senators have been affected by flight delays this morning. My understanding is that they were informed only this morning that this was coming on. That's just a complete lack of process. Perhaps, in response to my points this time, Senator Wong could outline exactly when Senators Thorpe and Babet were informed of the government's intention and how much time they gave them to mount a proper defence.</para>
<para>This is a serious action. It's not a criminal court, of course, but it's a serious process where basic rights of process should apply. People being accused of something as grievous as they are this morning, clearly, in a free, fair and equal society, deserve the opportunity to mount a defence. They deserve adequate time to prepare that defence. They deserve a proper ability to hear all the points of view that are being put against them—the arguments that are being substantiated to take an action of this severity. But, as I said earlier, we've cheapened this whole process and made a mockery of the censure process.</para>
<para>I hope this is not a precedent. I was one of the few who voted against former member for Dawson Mr George Christensen being censured a few years ago. I don't believe we will look back on that kindly as a chamber. He had the temerity at the time to say masks don't work. I know we were all panicked at the time—and we succumbed to that panic—but it was an absolutely absurd thing. Notwithstanding your views on masks today—you hardly see anyone wearing them anymore—to censure someone for that was absurd! Now we're doing this. Where's it going to end? We should keep the censure process for things of a grave, serious nature. We won't do that if we all repeat this tawdry exercise we've engaged in this morning.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:35</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RENNICK</name>
    <name.id>283596</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak to this because I feel very strongly that these censures, while I support them and while the conduct is unbecoming, are political pointscoring. I say that because I've tried to censure public servants in the past—in particular, John Skerritt, when he was head of the TGA, for lying to me in estimates. It never got past the community affairs committee. He lied to me on a number of occasions throughout Senate estimates, but I couldn't get that off the ground. That was a serious issue.</para>
<para>I also called a press conference a couple of weeks ago, when we were down here for the last set of estimates, because I wanted to talk about some very serious issues. One was that we've got a former politician that hasn't been named by the head of ASIO, Mike Burgess, who said that this politician sold out Australia. For some reason the two major parties don't want to discuss this at all, and I feel this is a very, very serious issue.</para>
<para>We've got other issues that occur all the time, and instead we come into this chamber every sitting week and start engaging in political pointscoring. Don't get me wrong, this behaviour is unbecoming. But, ultimately, as they say, sticks and stones may break my bones, but names will never hurt me. We have genuine, serious issues out here, which people don't want to discuss, where hardworking Australians are being damaged by actions of their government.</para>
<para>I urge the chamber to stop political pointscoring for a change and start dealing with issues. One, in particular—this hasn't yet been brought to the Senate's attention; it only came up in estimates—is that Treasury hasn't mentioned that they haven't updated their tax agreement with Ireland since 1983. In 1983 Ireland had a tax rate of 40c in the dollar. It's now got a tax rate of 12½c in the dollar. Billions of dollars are going offshore—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Rennick.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RENNICK</name>
    <name.id>283596</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>and no-one in this chamber cares—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Rennick!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RENNICK</name>
    <name.id>283596</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>about the cost of it to the Australian people.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Rennick! I should not have to keep calling you. When I call your name, I expect you to stop. You are ranging a long way from the issue at hand, which is the censure motion towards Senator Babet. The other point is that, if you used the term 'liar' to describe a senator in this place, you would have to withdraw. Whilst I can't ask you to withdraw that language for a public servant, I would remind you of that. Please continue.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RENNICK</name>
    <name.id>283596</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I'll wrap it up and say: can we stick to the substance of the issue? I didn't know that I called anyone in here a liar, but it wasn't intentional to call someone in here a liar.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Rennick, it was in relation to a public servant.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:38</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I'll make three points. First, censure is about the protection of the institution. It's not a legal, fact-finding process about whether someone has done something or whether someone's evidence is incorrect. It's about us as a collective protecting the institution. That's a decision we make. The second point I will make is that it is normal practice for these issues to be dealt with at the first available opportunity. I think, Senator Canavan, you did not demur when Senator Birmingham took such an approach in relation to then Senator Rice. It was at the next available opportunity. The third point I'll make is that, whilst I appreciate people have travel difficulties, the majority of the Senate is here and has ensured that we are here for the opening of the Senate.</para>
<para>Ultimately, this is about the protection of the institution and what we as a collective determine is acceptable. We all have different views—that is what this place deals with—but we also have to make a decision about what behaviours are appropriate in the expression of those views and also, in relation to Senator Babet, about whether, in 2024, the sorts of views that he has articulated, which are, frankly, hateful about our fellow Australians, are something that we should be condoning as a Senate. I for one do not condone them. I commend the motion.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>4657</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>National Disability Insurance Scheme</title>
          <page.no>4657</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>4657</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:40</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The government continues to reiterate its view that it cannot agree with the assertions made in this motion. We do, however, acknowledge the interest in the chamber in continuing to reform the NDIS to get it back on track and to ensure its sustainability for future generations of Australians. I also acknowledge the support from the opposition in working together with the government to this end and for voting in support of the National Disability Insurance Scheme Amendment (Getting the NDIS Back on Track No. 1) Bill 2024, which passed the parliament on 22 August 2024. The NDIS bill received royal assent on 5 September 2024 and commenced on 3 October 2024.</para>
<para>On 8 February 2024, the government tabled the final report of the Independent Review into the National Disability Insurance Scheme, which was publicly released on 7 December 2023. In producing this report, the independent NDIS review panel travelled to every state and territory, including regional and remote communities. It heard directly from more than 10,000 Australians, worked with disability organisations to reach out and listen to more than 1,000 people with disability and their families, recorded more than 2,000 personal stories and received almost 4,000 submissions. The review delivered 26 recommendations and 139 supporting actions to respond to its terms of reference. In delivering its recommendations, the review provided exhaustive analysis and proposals to improve the operation, effectiveness and sustainability of the NDIS. The independent NDIS review panel has said its reforms can improve the scheme and meet National Cabinet's annual growth target of no more than eight per cent growth by 1 July 2026.</para>
<para>The NDIS bill was the first legislative step by this government to ensuring this annual growth target be achieved. Following the passage of the NDIS bill, discussions will continue with senators across this chamber, as well as members of the other place, to address questions about the government's NDIS reform agenda that it is pursuing together with the disability community. We look forward to continuing to work with senators in this place to get the NDIS back on track and ensure its sustainability for future generations of Australians.</para>
<para>In relation to the order being discussed, the government has previously outlined that we have claimed public interest immunity over the requested documents as disclosure would prejudice relations between the Commonwealth and the states and territories. The Minister representing the Treasurer has already tabled key documents for the benefit of the Senate, in addition to the aforementioned review.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:44</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HUGHES</name>
    <name.id>273828</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate take note of the explanation.</para></quote>
<para>Well, here we are again—NDIS Monday. It's like <inline font-style="italic">The NeverEnding Story</inline>. I think it's been 13 or 14 months now, and poor Senator Farrell gets sent in every week to deliver a statement that is quite simply an insult to this chamber. We've just had motions about respecting the institution. Then they turn around with complete disdain for the Senate, because it has now been 13 or 14 months since the government have been required to provide this documentation to the Senate, and, yet again, that documentation is not being provided.</para>
<para>Remember when the now Prime Minister was campaigning? He was going to be all about transparency. It was going to be an open government. It was doing things differently. Instead, this is the most opaque administration that I think we've ever seen. Their consistent refusal to provide documents in this place that the Senate demanded from them is now being backed up by the behaviour we've recently seen at estimates. We see it through the way they are conducting legislation committees and through each of the committee processes. We see it in their shutting down of any inquiry and limiting the number of hearings. We know what happened with the NDIS reforms and how they were trying to push them through, so much so that we saw billboards driven around. But then, lo and behold, the government themselves had something like 50-plus amendments that they wanted to push through. That's stuff we would have been able to get to the bottom of had we been able to have a proper inquiry and series of hearings.</para>
<para>We now see at estimates that, all of a sudden, the agency is not available. No-one can attend. Conveniently, everyone seems to get sick on the day of estimates. Estimates are in the diary almost 12 months out, but, every time, the NDIA schedule a board meeting or some form of report to be released within a week of estimates concluding. It is the ongoing situation from this government that we are seeing and which they are hiding. They are hiding every piece of data that they can, not only from participants but also from providers and everyone that works in this sector. What we do know is that we're still seeing an increase in the costs of the NDIS.</para>
<para>I'm getting hundreds if not thousands of people coming by my office. Particularly, as most people know, I have a very strong interest in the autism and early intervention spheres, because I know that, if you get good quality, intensive, early intervention, you can change the trajectory of the life of a child with autism. This is a disability that reflects the intent of the scheme: invest early, have lower costs later. But we know that families are having their plans slashed, particularly for children with level 3 autism and an intellectual disability. If some of these documents could be provided, I would love to work with the government, because there are too many kids on the scheme. Eleven per cent of kids with a disability—seven- to nine-year-old boys in this country—do not have permanent, lifelong disability. I would love to work constructively with the government to get some of these kids off the NDIS.</para>
<para>For the people that need it, we need that scheme to be there. We need the scheme to be sustainable. We need it to be affordable. We need it to have the support of the broader Australian population, because the NDIS is there for everybody. Nobody knows whether they will need it through the birth of a child or via an accident, so we need the Australian population to be behind it. Instead, all we hear are these stories, particularly about participants being at fault. There's very little discussion about the providers that are rorting the system or the price guide that pushes up the cost of each therapy session for an NDIS participant higher than for anyone else with a healthcare or veterans card. The NDIS pays best!</para>
<para>I would love to work with government to see how we can get one, two or a couple of blocks of speech therapy sessions for some of these kids who have a global developmental delay. How could the states better provide community health speech therapy and occupational therapy, like they used to? But the government is continually refusing to release these agreements with the states, and the states are saying, 'Please don't bring on these foundational supports yet, because we're not ready.'</para>
<para>We know there are kids who will fall through the cracks, and there are kids who shouldn't be on the NDIS who will fall through the cracks. But, more frighteningly, this would appear likely. I know the minister has visited two early intervention centres. One I was supposed to go to with him, but I was ill, and he went without me. I took him to one in Melbourne myself to show him level 3 kids with intellectual disability who require substantial plans to get that effective early intervention. But they are having their plans cut. They are dragged through the AAT process only to have the original amount agreed to in the steps, wasting more money through administration and legal costs.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:49</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator STEELE-JOHN</name>
    <name.id>250156</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>In April 2023, the so-called leaders of the Australian nation—the Prime Minister, the premiers and the chief ministers of this country—met to conduct a national cabinet, and at that National Cabinet they discussed how they were going to cut billions of dollars from our NDIS. In response, and immediately, the Greens, together with the rest of the Senate, demanded to know precisely what had been discussed at that meeting. They demanded to know the documentation, the records, kept of that meeting. In response to those demands, this Labor government refused, so the Greens and the Senate took the unprecedented step of demanding that one of the most senior cabinet ministers in the government attend the Senate at the beginning of every single sitting period to either disclose the documents requested or provide us with a satisfactory response. Month after month, for nearly a year, the government has refused to do either. We've no documents and no satisfactory answers.</para>
<para>We are nearly at the end of the parliamentary year. There are but two weeks left before the government and the opposition go away for their Christmas break. I had hoped that today we might get something more substantial—that we might get answers, that we might get documents—but no. Yet again, there's refusal from this government to provide the basic information as to what was agreed a year ago when politicians got in a room behind closed doors and talked about how to cut billions from our NDIS.</para>
<para>Although the silence by this government continues, their actions are now speaking far more loudly than their words ever could. Recently it has been revealed that, in the last six or so weeks of Labor's NDIS, this Labor government has conducted over 7,000 reassessments of eligibility of NDIS participants. Eighty per cent of those reassessments have been of children. 'What is the outcome of those reassessments?' people may indeed wonder. Well, 50 per cent of these reassessments result in kids or participants of other ages getting kicked off. And there is more data that the agency is yet to reveal.</para>
<para>These approaches, these decisions and these massive cuts are often what are driving the perverse glee that is on the faces of so many Treasury department bean-counters and ministers in this Labor government. The cuts that we are seeing—the kids being kicked off the scheme—are why the government has recently been able to update by a billion dollars their forecast of how much they will cut from the NDIS by 2028. They're now so proud to share with the community that by 2028 they will have cut $20 billion worth of funding and supports from disabled people and their families.</para>
<para>This is a disgrace. It is causing so much fear. This Labor government is sending over a thousand letters out to disabled people and their families informing them that they are being reassessed and that, if people wish to provide additional evidence, they have but 28 days to do so. There is so much fear. It's totally unacceptable.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:54</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator REYNOLDS</name>
    <name.id>250216</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I, too, rise to speak on the Greens' motion, in continued support of what I think history will record is the greatest financial fraud on Australian taxpayers in our nation's history. It's the cruellest financial fraud on Australians.</para>
<para>The lack of transparency, which other senators have again reminded those in this place and all Australians of, is shocking. Not only has the minister, for over 12 months, come in here and flouted the direction of the Senate to provide that information; but we had the farce at the last Senate estimates, the budget estimates, where we got this letter from the NDIA. It said that the NDIA had all the data that we want, but because it was going to be put in two different documents—the first quarterly report and the AFSR, the annual financial sustainability report, which are two of the most critical documents for transparency for this place on that $11 billion per quarter scheme—they said, 'The agency will therefore not be able to answer questions regarding these documents at its appearance.'</para>
<para>We'd made it very clear that we didn't want to talk about the documents, even though they were late. We wanted to talk about the data that sits behind them. But, of course, yet again, those opposite hid. I went of the Clerk for advice, and this is what the Clerk said: 'Officers do not have an independent discretion to withhold this information, and this requirement is not overridden by the existence of a statutory obligation to provide the information to another entity.' So that was very clear, and all in this place know that to be. But they still did not provide that information, and now those opposite and the NDIA are ducking and weaving and trying to do everything they can to not have a spillover so that those in this place can get transparency on the numbers that sit behind them.</para>
<para>Of course, the first quarterly report was published after estimates. It is very clear why they waited until after estimates to publish this quarterly report: it gives lie to everything those opposite have been saying about this scheme. Bill Shorten's been out there in the media saying, 'This scheme is now being moderated.' But, despite all the cuts that they are initiating to participants' plans—remember Minister Shorten promised, 'I won't cut a single plan; there will be no cuts under the government that I'm a minister in.' That was so not true.</para>
<para>These are the numbers. Total payments have continued to increase due to both drivers of cost: participant numbers and the higher average annual cost per participant. In the last quarter alone, total expenses were $11.5 billion. No wonder they tried to hide that at estimates and hide the data that sits behind that. As I've said, they're now ducking and weaving about having any transparency so that we can unpack the numbers. Annualised, on the first quarter alone, that will mean the scheme will increase from about $42 billion last year to between $45 billion and $46 billion. With all of the blunt cuts that are now being enforced on scheme members, it is a complete disgrace.</para>
<para>Let's have a look at how those two drivers of cost have been increasing. Planned inflation continues to rise with an annualised level now of 12.8 per cent. So much for those opposite and the budget; it was budgeted for 8.5 per cent. In quarter 1 alone, there were over 50,000 requests for participant plan reviews; there are now 4,000 a week.</para>
<para>How did those opposite cook the books? They made it seem, when the legislation went through, that they were fixing the budget. Well, they were not. What did they do? They held over tens of thousands of applications to get into the scheme, and they made sure people waited months and months to get their payments once they were accepted into the scheme. We're now seeing that flow through in the first quarter. Worse than that, when people applied for plan increases because of inflation, they sat on them—over 50,000 of them. That number has now gone up to 61,767. Now, because they need the money, they are not just waiting for people to ask for plan reassessments but also initiating tens of thousands of these.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BILLS</title>
        <page.no>4660</page.no>
        <type>BILLS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Universities Accord (Student Support and Other Measures) Bill 2024</title>
          <page.no>4660</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <a href="r7231" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Universities Accord (Student Support and Other Measures) Bill 2024</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>First Reading</title>
            <page.no>4660</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:59</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McALLISTER</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill may proceed without formalities and be now read a first time.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a first time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>4660</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:00</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McALLISTER</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I table a revised explanatory memorandum relating to the bill and I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill be now read a second time.</para></quote>
<para>I seek leave to have the second reading speech incorporated in <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline>.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">The speech read as follows—</inline></para>
<quote><para class="block">We have a good education system.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">But it can be a lot better and a lot fairer.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This bill is an important part of achieving that goal.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It is the first stage of the implementation of the Universities Accord.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It will wipe out about $3 billion of HELP debt for more than 3 million Australians.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It will introduce, for the first time, a Commonwealth Prac Payment. That is Commonwealth Government financial support for teaching students, for nursing students, for midwifery students and social work students, to help support them while they do the practical part of their degree.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">And it massively expands Fee-Free Uni Ready Courses—the courses that act as a bridge between school and uni, and help ensure that more Australians get a crack at uni and succeed when they get there.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">All are key measures recommended in the Final Report of the Universities Accord, led by Professor Mary O'Kane AC.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Professor O'Kane is a former Vice-Chancellor of the University of Adelaide and NSW's first Chief Scientist and Engineer as well as the first woman to be a Dean of Engineering at an Australian university.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Professor O'Kane was supported by an esteemed group of Australians, including:</para></quote>
<list>Professor Barney Glover AO, former Vice-Chancellor of Western Sydney University and now Jobs and Skills Australia Commissioner</list>
<list>Ms Shemara Wikramanayake, Managing Director and Chief Executive Officer of Macquarie Group</list>
<list>the Hon. Jenny Macklin, former Minister for Families, Community Services and Indigenous Affairs.</list>
<list>Professor Larissa Behrendt AO, the first Indigenous Australian to graduate from Harvard Law School. Larissa is a professor of law and the director of research and academic programs at the Jumbunna Institute for Indigenous Education and Research at the University of Technology Sydney.</list>
<list>the Hon Fiona Nash, Australia's first Regional Education Commissioner, a former Senator for New South Wales, a former Minister for Regional Development, Regional Communications and Local Government and Territories.</list>
<quote><para class="block">The Accord Panel has provided us with a blueprint to reform higher education over the next few decades.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Funding it and implementing it is going to take more than just one budget.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We have to do this in stages.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">But we have bitten off a big chunk.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">29 of the 47 recommendations, in full or in part.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">That includes the measures in this Bill, which amends the <inline font-style="italic">Higher Education Support Act</inline><inline font-style="italic">2003</inline> and related legislation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">First, the bill amends the Higher Education Loan Program, or HELP, indexation methodology to be based on either the Consumer Price Index or the Wage Price Index—whichever is lower.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This change applies to HELP (or what we used to call HECS), VET Student Loans, Australian Apprenticeship Support Loans and other student support loan accounts.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The big hike in student debt last year hit a lot of Australians hard, in particular a lot of young Australians.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">They've made their voice heard. The Albanese Labor Government has heard them and we're acting.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">That's why this bill will wipe around $3 billion in student debt for 3 million Australians nationwide—easing pressure on workers, apprentices, trainees and students across the country.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It will provide significant relief for people with a student debt while continuing to protect the integrity and value of student loans systems, which have massively expanded tertiary access for more Australians.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">And we are going further.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The bill backdates this relief for student support loans including HELP, VET Student Loans and Australian Apprenticeship Support Loans that existed on 1 June last year.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In other words, we're going to wipe out last year's unfair CPI indexation rate of 7.1 per cent and replace it with the lower WPI rate of 3.2 per cent. It will also wipe out the 4.7 per cent from this year and reduce it to 4 per cent.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">For someone with an average debt of $26,500, they will see around $1,200 wiped from their outstanding loan this year.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">For someone with a debt of $45,000, it will mean that their debt is cut by about $2,000.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">For someone with a debt of $60,000, it will mean that their debt is cut by almost $2,700.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Corresponding changes are made to the <inline font-style="italic">VET Student Loans Act </inline>2016, <inline font-style="italic">Australian Apprenticeship Support Loans Act</inline> 2014, <inline font-style="italic">Social Security Act 1991</inline> and <inline font-style="italic">Student Assistance Act</inline> 1973 to ensure that the revised methodology also applies to VET Student Loans, Australian Apprenticeship Support Loans, Student Start-up Loans, ABSTUDY Student Start-up Loans and the Student Financial Supplement Scheme.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Second, the bill amends the Higher Education Support Act to allow for grants to be paid to higher education providers for a new Commonwealth Prac Payment.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This is an important reform.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">A lot of students tell me that when they do their prac they've got to give up their part-time job, or they've got to move away from home or work fewer hours.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Sometimes that can mean they delay doing their degree or don't finish it at all.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">That's why for the first time ever, we are introducing this payment for eligible teaching, nursing, midwifery and social work students.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This will give people who have signed up to do some of the most important jobs in this country a bit of extra help to get the qualifications they need.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This is practical support for practical training.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Just to give you one example of what this will mean, a few weeks ago I met a midwifery student at UTS who told me this:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">"I'm a first-year mature-age midwifery student. This payment is going to be absolutely life-changing for me. As a mother of two small children, I'm often balancing between practical work, placement and looking after my babies.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">"There are literally some days where I'm doing 16hour days between my study and my work and looking after my children.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">"I cannot wait for this payment to be available for myself and other future mature-age students who might also want to enrol in this course who previously couldn't financially afford it."</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">That's what this reform is all about.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Third, the bill establishes a new Commonwealth Grant Scheme funding cluster for "FEE-FREE Uni Ready Courses".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">These free courses are effectively a bridge between school and university to give students the foundational skills they need to succeed at uni.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Some universities offer these courses already.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Not many do it better than Newcastle Uni.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">They have been doing it now for 50 years.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">One in five people who get a degree from Newcastle University today, start with one of these FEE-FREE Uni Ready courses.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">People like Jennifer Baker.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Jennifer was a mum at 19. She worked in hospitality for 10 years and one day saw an ad for one of these free courses in the local paper.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Now she's got a science degree. An Honours degree. A PhD. And a Fulbright Scholarship.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">She's a computational medicinal chemist.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">That's what these courses do.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">And what this bill does is effectively uncap FEE-FREE Uni Ready courses, right across the country.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Giving more Australians the life-changing opportunity to get a crack at going to university.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Another good example of this is the University Preparation Program at the University of Tasmania where 51 per cent of students who go through the program are the first in their family to attend university.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">And 39 per cent are from a low SES background.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Mr Speaker this reform is expected to increase the number of people doing these free uni ready courses by about 40 per cent by the end of the decade and double the number in the decade after that.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Fourth, the bill requires that higher education providers allocate a minimum of 40 per cent of the student services and amenities fees revenue they collect from students to student-led organisations.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This will ensure that students have a significant voice in how their services and amenities fees are spent.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Universities can apply to the Secretary of my Department for a transition period to implement this change.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Any transition arrangements for public universities must be completed within agreed timeframes, up to a maximum of three years.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">These are all recommendations of the Universities Accord.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">And they are all important measures in themselves.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">But they are only one part of what we need to do to build a better and a fairer education system.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Under Bob Hawke and Paul Keating, the number of Australians finishing high school jumped from around 40 per cent to almost 80 per cent. That was nation changing stuff.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We're now taking the next step.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We've set a target for the nation that by 2050, 80 per cent of our workforce hasn't just finished school, but they've also gone on to TAFE or gone to university.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">If we hit that 80 per cent target the economic dividend is real.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">For individuals it means they earn more.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The evidence is if you go to university, then you earn more.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It also means the whole country earns more.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">My Department estimates the economy will be better off to the tune of about $240 billion in additional income up to the year 2050, in today's dollars.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">So how do we hit this target? How do we build a workforce where 80 per cent have a tertiary qualification?</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The short answer is we can't unless we build a better and a fairer education system.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">And this bill is part of that.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">What the Accord says is to hit that target, we need to break down two big barriers.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">One of those barriers is artificial. The other one is invisible.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The artificial barrier is the one we have built ourselves between vocational education and higher education.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We are not going fix the skills shortages we have, and will have, unless they are more integrated.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Unless they are more joined up.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Unless we fix things like recognition of prior learning.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Make it easier for what you have learnt in TAFE to be counted towards a degree at university, so you can get the degree quicker and cheaper.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In the Budget, we announced $27.7 million into immediate measures aimed at breaking down the barriers between VET and higher education to ensure a more seamless and aligned tertiary education system, including recognition of prior learning and streamlining regulation for dual sector providers.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">And we are already doing things here.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">One: we are working on the business case now for a National Skills Passport.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">An app where you can upload all of your skills, qualifications and work experience to make it easier for employers to find the people they need.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Two: we are investing about $650 million with the states to establish up to 20 Centres of Excellence. These are places where TAFEs and unis come together. Where you can get a certificate, a diploma or a degree.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">But what the Accord says is to get the two sectors working more closely together, we need one body that can help better integrate the two and what they do.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">They recommended an Australian Tertiary Education Commission to do this job.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">And that's what we are doing.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We want to get this right so we're consulting with the sector about the design details.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The second barrier we have to break down is the invisible barrier that stops a lot of people from poor families, from the outer suburbs of our big cities and from the regions going to uni in the first place, and succeeding when they get there.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This bill lays the foundations to massively expand the number of people doing FEE-FREE University Ready Courses.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We've released consultation papers on the design of a new funding system for higher education that includes managed growth and needs-based funding to help people who start a degree to finish.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Feedback from stakeholders will help shape these important reforms.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">But this is also just the start.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The truth is, if we are going to be successful, reform can't just happen at the university gate.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We have got to reform every part of the education system.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">That means fixing funding for public schools and tying it to practical reforms.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">At the moment, the number of kids finishing high school is going backwards. In the last seven years it's dropped from 85 per cent to 79 per cent.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">And in public schools that drop is even bigger, from 83 per cent to 73.6 per cent.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We've got to turn this around. That's what the Better and Fairer Schools Agreement I tabled in Parliament yesterday is all about.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">All up, I have put $16 billion of additional investment for public schools on the table.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">To put that into context—this would be the biggest increase in Commonwealth funding to public schools ever delivered.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I have made it clear this funding must be tied to reforms.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Practical things like phonics checks and numeracy checks, evidenced-based teaching and catch-up tutoring, to identify kids who need additional support and make sure they get it.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The sort of things that will help more kids catch up, keep up and finish school.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">But reform also doesn't start there.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">If we are serious about this, we have to go back even earlier.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The first five years of a child's life are everything. Everything they see, everything they hear, everything they eat, every book they open, every lesson they learn shapes the person that they become.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">And what we know is, it's children from poor families who are the least likely to go to early childhood education and care, and the most likely to benefit from it.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Productivity Commission's final report is on my desk right now and it will help chart a course to building a universal early education system.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">If we're going to build a universal system, then the first step, the very first thing we need to do is build the early education and care workforce.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">And that involves better reward for the work that our early educators do.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">That's why last week we announced the Government will fund a 15 per cent wage increase over two years for early childhood education and care workers.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This is good for parents and good for educators.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It's good for the economy.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">And most importantly, it's good for our children.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The child care debate is over. It's not babysitting. It's early education and it's critical to preparing children for school.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The US President makes the point that if a child goes to preschool, they're 50 per cent more likely to go to college or to university. So this isn't about changing nappies, this is about changing lives, and that's what our early educators do.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">And if we are going to hit that 80 per cent target by 2050, then we need to be building a better education system for the children in our early education centres and primary schools right now.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Children like my little guy in 2nd class.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Or his little brother still in nappies.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">And for the babies who will be born tomorrow and the day after that.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Into poverty and into wealth, and everything in between.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">They will grow up in big cities and outer suburbs, in the regions and the bush.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">They will go to school in the 2030s and TAFE or uni in the 2040s.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This bill is an important first step in making sure that we are ready for them.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I commend it to the House.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:00</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HENDERSON</name>
    <name.id>ZN4</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Universities Accord (Student Support and Other Measures) Bill 2024 amends the Higher Education Support Act to give effect to several measures from the <inline font-style="italic">Australian </inline><inline font-style="italic">Universities Accord </inline><inline font-style="italic">final report</inline>. These measures include changing the way HELP indexation is calculated to use the lower of either the consumer price index or the wage price index backdated to the 2023 and 2024 indexation years; the introduction of a Commonwealth prac payment for teaching, nursing, midwifery and social work students; FEE-FREE Uni Ready courses for students to undertake preparatory courses to prepare for university studies; and a requirement for universities to provide 40 per cent of the student services and amenities fee to student-led organisations. This bill also lists University of Adelaide as a table A provider, which will support the merger of the University of South Australia and the University of Adelaide.</para>
<para>While the coalition do support this bill, we are proposing several amendments, which I will discuss in due course. Fundamentally, we do raise very serious concerns about the way in which Labor has imposed such a massive impost on student debt for three million Australians. The Minister for Education, Mr Clare, has talked a very big game on the support mechanisms for students but we do raise concerns about the deficient way in which this government is in fact supporting students in practice.</para>
<para>While escalating student debt is a direct consequence of Labor's high inflation and economic mismanagement, the bill is proposing to change HELP indexation to the lower of WPI or CPI. It's very important not to gloss over what has happened and what Labor is trying to do. Under Labor, HELP indexation has risen by almost 16 per cent: 3.9 per cent on 1 June 2022, 7.1 per cent on 1 June 2023 and 4.7 per cent on 1 June 2024. For someone with an average loan of $24,700 as at June 2022, this has meant a crippling increase of around $4,000. It's very important to contrast that with the average annual indexation of just 1.7 per cent, which occurred under the former coalition government.</para>
<para>This government can attempt to rewrite history, but three million Australians will never forget what has happened to them under this government. Student debt is out of control. And let's not forget that there are many young Australians who are struggling just to pay the rent or put food on the table. So, while this bill changes how HELP indexation is recalculated and backdates that indexation formula, let's not forget that this still means an increase in student debt of 11.1 per cent. In the face of Labor's cost-of-living crisis, this is still a kick in the guts for struggling students and the three million Australians with a student loan.</para>
<para>The other really important point to make to counter Labor's false narrative about delivering refunds of some $3 billion is that most students will not see a refund, as Labor is trying to suggest, and that, of course, provides no cost-of-living relief. That is because, for most students, there will be a rebate applied against each person's HELP loan account, which, of course, will be eroded over time by reason of future indexation, depending on how long it ultimately takes to pay off the debt. So, of the three million Australians, it's estimated to be only about 200,000 who will actually receive a refund, and that refund will be contingent on the clearing of any other Commonwealth debts which are owing before cash will be back in the bank. Of course, the fact that the government is talking about refunds and cash in the bank is also ridiculous, because we don't know when this is going to occur. We have for many months sought details about when this rebate, refund or reduction will be applied and we are none the wiser.</para>
<para>What we do know is that the claims that the government are making that they will wipe $3 billion in student debt are very misleading. Under Labor, indexation has gone up by a staggering $8.1 billion, so this is all smoke and mirrors from this government to try and cover up the absolute mess it has made of HELP debt because of the fact that Labor has mismanaged the economy. It has kept inflation higher for longer, and that's had a very detrimental impact on all Australians, including, of course, Australians with a HELP debt. Recognising the mess that the Albanese government has made of student debt in this country since the election, the government has also announced several other student debt policies, including lifting the HELP debt repayment threshold and lowering the minimum repayment to $450 a year. As we've made very clear, this could lead to a lifetime of debt, and we've raised serious concerns about that.</para>
<para>The government has also made an election commitment of a discount of 20 per cent to student debt for all debtors, which is a policy reeking of unfairness and elitism, because, as we know, the people who are going to get the most out of that policy are just 55,000 people who have a HELP debt of between $100,000 and $200,000, meaning that, under this policy, Labor would effectively deliver them an average pay cheque of $25,000. Three million people may receive this discount. First of all, Labor's not serious about this policy, otherwise it would have brought this legislation forward in this parliament. This is nothing more than an election bribe. But what does it say to all those millions of hardworking Australians who've paid off their HELP debt? What does the fact that this is going to cost $16 billion in the hit to the bottom line, or $1,600 for every household, say to all the Australians who've seen a collapse in living standards and in their disposable incomes under Labor? I remind the chamber of what leading economist Chris Richardson said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… handing $16bn to graduates is a reverse Robin Hood: it's a tax cut targeted to the big end of town, with money going from the less well off to the better off.</para></quote>
<para>This is grossly unfair. It reeks of elitism and just sums up what this government is all about.</para>
<para>I will just make the point that Labor has imposed the most horrific cost-of-living impost on all Australians, driving up food costs by 12 per cent, health costs by 10 per cent, education costs by 12 per cent, electricity costs by a staggering 31 per cent, gas costs by a staggering 34 per cent, housing costs by 13 per cent and rent costs by 16 per cent. This government is just tinkering at the edges and doing nothing more.</para>
<para>The bill, as I mentioned, also makes provision for Commonwealth prac payments for students studying teaching, nursing, midwifery or social work. They, of course, work enormously hard, but there is enormous uncertainty about this payment. The universities have, in fact, raised serious concerns about this. It will be delivered not via Centrelink but through a grant bucket, and then the universities will need to seek payments from that grant bucket. There has been very little or no consultation with state and territory governments or the industry as to how this measure will be implemented, and we are deeply concerned about the lack of consultation.</para>
<para>We learnt during the committee hearing in the Senate hearing process that there's no detail as to which students will be eligible, how they will be means tested or how and when they will receive this prac payment. As a result of the enormous uncertainty, the coalition will pursue a substantive amendment requiring the government to table the eligibility and means test requirements for the Commonwealth prac payment before the new grant payment can commence. Importantly, this will provide transparency ahead of the payment commencing to ensure students and the providers who will be accessing student applications understand the requirements before the payment begins. Without clear eligibility guidelines, students remain in the dark about this payment.</para>
<para>The bill also includes provisions in relation to the delivery of fee-free university courses. We have raised a number of concerns in relation to that, because, at the moment, under the enabling places, which already exist, students can study right now at no cost. While providers will receive a higher base funding rate per place of some $18,278, the loss of enabling funding will mean an overall reduction in funding for students who need additional support. There have been some concerns raised about the way that the government has changed the availability of enabling courses, which were very much directed to particular courses and offered to students to support them to kickstart their university studies.</para>
<para>We are also particularly concerned about the requirement in this bill that a minimum of 40 per cent of the student services and amenities fee revenue be directed to student led organisations, including student associations, unions and guilds. This is concerning, and, for that reason, we will be introducing an amendment which seeks to remove the 40 per cent allocation requirement to allow universities the flexibility to distribute these funds in ways that best meet the needs of all students, rather than prioritising student led unions.</para>
<para>The universities have also raised concerns about this. There are some transition provisions in this bill, but we don't think that they're strong enough. This is also a measure directing this additional money to support student led organisations, which is driven more by ideology than by common sense, because a lot of smaller universities don't have well-established student led organisations which can deliver the sorts of support that students need, and that support is really, really important. That support is critical to giving students the support they need, whether it's legal advice, health advice or mental health advice and support. As I say, we are concerned that this provision is all about supporting student unions to run their activities. In particular, if the amendment fails to separate out and vote against this allocation, we are proposing to safeguard these funds from being used for student elections, student protests or protest related activities to ensure these resources directly benefit student welfare and essential services. We have heard anecdotally of a number of instances when student led organisations have used moneys held by them for what I regard as improper purposes. It's very, very important that we have this safeguard, otherwise this is a mandate that's ideologically driven and overlooks critical concerns raised by universities about the misuse of funds. We are seeking the support of the Senate for that amendment to make sure that student support funds are used properly to support students and not for other improper activities, such as student protests and the like. I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">At the end of the motion, add ", but the Senate notes that:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) the Albanese Government's economic mismanagement and high inflation has resulted in escalating student debt for some 3 million Australians with a HELP (Higher Education Loan Program) loan,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) the proposal to change HELP indexation to the lower of the wage price index or the consumer price index would still result in student debts increasing by 11.1 % since June 2022, with no date by which student debt credits will be applied or refunds paid,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) whether it is student debt, housing or paying bills, Australians continue to suffer acute cost-of-living pain under this government,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(d) the Government has failed to detail eligibility criteria for the Commonwealth Prac Payments or how students will receive those payments, noting that students studying in other areas of workforce shortage such as occupational therapy, psychology and veterinary studies have been excluded from the scheme; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(e) the Government's decision to mandate that 40% of the Student Services and Amenities Fee revenue be directed to student led organisations, including student unions, associations and guilds, lacks any transparency measures to ensure money is spent on services that support student welfare".</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:15</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARUQI</name>
    <name.id>250362</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Students and graduates are being crushed by the ballooning burden of student debt, placement poverty and a cost-of-living crisis that is disproportionately affecting young people and women. Seventy-one per cent of student debt is owed by people under 35, and 59 per cent of student debt is owed by women. They are bearing the burden of this cruel and cooked higher education system. Following years of campaigning and pressure from the Greens, the community, the activists, Students Against Placement Poverty and the National Union of Students, amongst many others, the Labor government is finally taking some tiny steps forward.</para>
<para>Let's be clear that the proposals in the Universities Accord (Student Support and Other Measures) Bill 2024 fall woefully short of the changes that are actually required to address the scale of the crisis in higher education. This bill is a tepid response to the nature and extent of the problems of ballooning student debt and placement poverty. It does not provide any substantive cost-of-living relief for students and offers only bandaid solutions that do not match the scale of the problem that people are facing, especially at this time in the cost-of-living crisis. Nearly three million people currently owe over $81 billion in student debt. Student debt repayments are eating into people's weekly pay packets, they are locking people out of getting their first home and they are disproportionately impacting young people and women.</para>
<para>The Albanese Labor government has sold this bill as wiping student debt. While it's nice to see them taking the Greens' lines, this is not what they are doing. This bill is not wiping student debt. Their rhetoric doesn't match the reality. Firstly, shaving some indexation off the top of student debt is just tinkering around the edges, and it is not a cost-of-living relief measure, as the government purports. It does not put money back in the pockets of the vast majority of people with student debt who are struggling to make ends meet. Under this term of the Labor government, student debt has gone up by a whopping 16 per cent, and this tokenistic plan for student debt indexation still means that debts will rise by 11½ per cent by the end of their first term of government. Indexation shouldn't really exist. HECS debt shouldn't really exist. Uni and TAFE fees shouldn't really exist. Unless that happens, more and more graduates will spend their entire lives repaying their student debt. Education should never be a debt sentence.</para>
<para>Labor's bill does nothing to tackle the root cause of mounting student debt. Student debt can't be fixed, because student debt shouldn't exist. That's why last week I announced the Greens' plan to wipe all student debt. The Greens plan will be paid for by taking on price-gouging corporations and coal and gas giants to make them pay their fair share of tax so people can have more in their pay cheque. Our plan, for someone who has an average student debt and who owns an average income, would result in a debt of $27,600 being wiped and a saving of $5½ thousand a year. That is enough to cover more than six months worth of groceries.</para>
<para>In the Prime Minister's home city of Sydney—my home city as well—more than 615,000 people owe almost $19 billion in student debt. If Prime Minister Anthony Albanese could go to uni for free, so should everyone else. Under pressure from the Greens, Labor has recently made some pledges to increase the minimum repayment income and to wipe 20 per cent of student debt. Obviously, it's nowhere near enough, but still it's inching forward under pressure from the Greens and the community. But wait! Even with this pledge, there's a catch. They will make these changes only if they are elected and only in July next year. It is, frankly, irresponsible and cruel to be dangling student debt relief to win votes for an election when Labor is in government right now. We have the opportunity right now. We have the numbers right now to make these changes. It is no wonder that people are sick and tired of being treated as pawns in this political game that Labor is playing. Pledges are not enough. Pledges are not going to pay the bill. Pledges are not going to reduce the burden, the heavy load of student debt. Spiralling student debt must be addressed immediately. There is no reason to wait until July to legislate these changes.</para>
<para>If Labor can bring in a bill to give free TAFE places, then surely we can also bring in a bill right now to legislate this promise that Labor has made to reduce student debt by 20 per cent. In the absence of Labor doing this, I will be bringing in amendments to this bill to legislate the Albanese government's own pledge and policy, wiping 20 per cent of student debt, raising the repayment threshold and making the repayment structure fairer for all. Let's do this. Let's do this right now. Let's do this today so that people have some faith in their governments and their politicians. These Greens amendments will be a chance for Labor to show that they actually care about those struggling under the weight of student debt right now.</para>
<para>Let me now come to one of the most egregious higher education policies that we have seen in a long time in this country and which the government is ignoring. That is the Morrison government's Job-ready Graduates scheme. It's all well and good for the Liberal politicians to stand up here and cry about the rising student debt, completely forgetting that one of the causes of us now having $50,000 degrees is something that they implemented. This bill that we're debating today is an extraordinary missed opportunity to rectify the punitive fee hikes and funding cuts of the Morrison government's Job-ready Graduates scheme. The Labor government's own accord found that this scheme was a failure and that it required urgent remediation, so where is this urgent remediation? Students who have been condemned to $50,000 arts degrees can't afford to wait a day longer for Labor to scrap these fee hikes and stop student debt from spiralling even further.</para>
<para>Absurdly high university fees and shifting the cost of education increasingly onto students shows how broken the HECS system is, and the only way to fix that—and I keep saying it again and again because it is the only way to fix it—is to wipe student debt and to have degrees cost zero dollars. Till the Labor government introduced their reckless international student caps plan, the coalition's disastrous Job-ready Graduates scheme was the most universally disliked and opposed higher education policy in recent times. Everyone, from universities to NTEU and NUS, want it to be scrapped and replaced, yet the government have refused to do so. The intention of the Job-ready Graduates scheme was objectionable to start with. It was a complete furphy that the scheme would encourage students into so-called priority degrees, as defined by the coalition. Four years on, there is now proof that the scheme has utterly and miserably failed, so just get rid of it, Labor. The JRG has condemned generations of people to decades of debt and pushed universities into further strife. Even Labor admitted the policy is deeply flawed, is irrational and is economic and cultural vandalism. So why haven't you scrapped it? Do it immediately; do it now.</para>
<para>As if the burden of student debt and the cost-of-living crisis weren't enough, so many students are further crushed by placement poverty when they have to do hundreds of hours of unpaid placements to get their qualifications. I do welcome the government's decision to establish Commonwealth prac payments for students studying nursing, teaching and social work. It is a move in the right direction, yet it reflects a real lack of understanding of the severity of placement poverty and its impacts on students. The proposal in this bill, again, is inadequate. Why are these such small measures? We need some transformative change.</para>
<para>The government has the opportunity to deliver genuine relief to students and graduates; instead, the measures in this bill merely scratch the surface, and this view is supported by many who gave evidence to the inquiry into this bill. Ngaire Bogemann, the President of the National Union of Students, told the committee about the increasingly common stories of young people skipping meals, sleeping in cars and going without necessities to make it through their studies. Unpaid placements are just unfair and unjust, and they exacerbate existing inequalities. Students have to cut back on paid work, give up paid work or work around the clock to make ends meet. They have had to take up loans to survive or receive financial assistance from friends and families to cover living expenses.</para>
<para>Placements should benefit student learning, not exploit their unpaid labour. The government's proposal also leaves out hundreds of thousands of students who are required to undertake mandatory placement as part of their degrees. The decision excludes students studying courses such as medicine, vet studies, psychology, allied health and youth work, which are just some that require hundreds of hours of mandatory placement work. It is deeply disappointing that we continue to put students under immense financial and mental health stress. Many of these professionals are desperately required in the workforce, including in regional and remote areas. All students required to undertake mandatory placement should be paid. That means every student should be paid for every hour of work that they are required to do, otherwise this is just plain exploitation.</para>
<para>Labor's proposal for Commonwealth prac placements amounts to $8 an hour for those who are lucky enough to receive this payment, which is obviously going to be means tested—and we don't even know what that means. It will still be more than $16 an hour below the national minimum wage. How does that make any sense? All mandatory placements should be paid, should be universal, and students should be paid at least minimum wage for their work on placement, not a lesser supplementary amount.</para>
<para>This bill also only provides an avenue for grants to be made for placement payments; it does not guarantee that a single student actually receives that payment. Payments for mandatory practical placements should be enshrined in legislation as a legal entitlement. Placement poverty is taking a huge toll on students and is pushing them to the absolute brink, yet Labor's limited policy, even with the limitations that it has, won't even start until July next year. Students need help right now. They cannot afford to wait for another nine months.</para>
<para>While the Job-ready Graduate scheme drastically increased the burden of students completing higher education, the burden on students, rather than the government, it also represented just one further step in what has been a long-term trend of successive governments from both of the old parties increasingly shifting the cost of delivering a university education away from the government and onto students. When Prime Minister Anthony Albanese completed his economics degree at the University of Sydney, Commonwealth contributions amounted to almost 90 per cent of the total revenue of universities. By 2022, this had fallen to only 38 per cent, and this dramatic decrease in the proportion of government funding to our public universities not only has placed the burden on students faced with ever increasing student loans but has led to the broader crisis of corporatisation of our public higher education institutions.</para>
<para>Today we are seeing rampant wage theft, casualisation of staff and job cuts left, right and centre, while university vice-chancellors walk away with million-dollar pay packets. The result is a poorer education, poorer research outcomes and a burden for both staff and students. The abandonment of the higher education sector over the decades by both Labor and the coalition has transformed it from a public good and a cornerstone of societal development to a corporatised enterprise that is fuelling inequality. We used to have a model that worked and was fully funded by the Commonwealth.</para>
<para>I foreshadow I will be moving a second reading amendment and substantive amendments to fix this bill.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:30</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHELDON</name>
    <name.id>168275</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I have a great deal of pleasure in speaking on the Universities Accord (Student Support and Other Measures) Bill 2024, because it provides the most significant changes and improvements in Australian tertiary education—universities and TAFEs—that we've seen in many a decade. These changes will make a significant difference to Australia's higher education educators and students, who are the key to greater productivity in the economy and to innovative research. Higher education is also a key export industry.</para>
<para>There are longstanding problems that are putting up barriers for prospective students who want to go to university or TAFE and for students who want to stick to their degree until they're finished: student debt that keeps growing rather than getting smaller as former students enter the workforce; gaps in service delivery; and a lack of consistency in the funding of student led organisations, which provide an advocacy role and community on campus. Unlike those in the opposition, we believe those student organisations also play a critical role in developing our democracy and—heaven forbid!—mean that those over the age of 18 can have responsibility for their own organisations. That's a fundamental of the democratic process and system. There are difficulties in transitioning prospective students who didn't quite land the high school score they needed to go into higher education, and there are students who must undertake placements that are mandatory for their degree but are unpaid, sometimes for thousands of hours.</para>
<para>The <inline font-style="italic">Australian Universities Accord final report</inline> was the result of more than 12 months of work, informed by public submissions, a ministerial reference group and an extensive consultation with students, First Nations peoples, businesses, unions, government agencies, universities and the TAFE system. I commend the minister and the department for this monumental task, because it offers a long-term vision for the sector. The report made significant recommendations to government which will take time to implement, but this bill and others will be dealt with by this Senate this week. The Albanese government is acting to safeguard the future of this critical sector and ensure that students are supported while they are there.</para>
<para>I'll start with the HELP debt indexation. The accord final report recommended that the government set HELP indexation at the lower of the consumer price index or the wage price index. This bill fulfils recommendation 16 so that former students who are in the workforce and are paying off their loans don't go backwards. This change to indexation will also be backdated to 1 June 2023, in recognition of the higher than usual CPI rate of 7.1 per cent that was applied to student loans in 2023. This will wipe around $3 billion in student debt for three million Australians nationwide, easing pressure on workers, apprentices, trainees and students across the country. For someone with a debt of $26,500, their debt will be cut by around $1,200; for someone with a debt of $45,000, their debt will be cut by around $2,000; and, for someone with a debt of $60,000, their debt will be cut by almost $2,700.</para>
<para>The new methodology would also apply to other Commonwealth loans, including VET student loans, Australian apprenticeship support loans, student startup loans, Abstudy student startup loans and Student Financial Supplement Scheme loans. There was overwhelming support for this measure in the inquiry. Charles Darwin University said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… these changes represent a significant step toward achieving greater equity in higher education and ensuring that financial barriers do not hinder their academic and professional aspirations.</para></quote>
<para>The National Tertiary Education Union, the Australian Nursing and Midwifery Federation and the Australian Services Union all welcome the changes as a positive first step.</para>
<para>Detractors in the Greens and the coalition argue that this change would not make any substantial difference to the hip pockets of students and former students. That's fine for them to say—I just read out the thousands of dollars that will be saved—but I challenge them to say that to the National Union of Students president, Ngaire Bogemann, who told the committee about stories of students who are unable to get home loans because of their HECS debts, which the former government enacted. Their indexation settings also left students at the mercy of inflation. This government is picking apart their broken scheme and providing tangible relief for current and former students. This is especially rich from the Liberals and Nationals, who introduced the disastrous Job-ready Graduates Package, which drove up the cost of degrees and didn't make an ounce of difference to the choices of students.</para>
<para>I'll move on to the changes to the student services and amenities fee. This bill will set a requirement for universities to allocate a minimum of 40 per cent of revenue from the SSAF to student led organisations. Additional funding will help student volunteers and elected officers to deliver welfare services—such as food banks and free breakfasts—run campaigns to address issues on campus, including access to psychology sessions, and address gender based violence. Many universities already meet that standard, but many regional universities fall short. That's why it's important for there to be consistency across the country.</para>
<para>There's nothing new about this idea. In Western Australia, they have had a minimum allocation of 50 per cent for student led organisations for almost a decade. I note that those opposite are saying that's not good enough. Quite clearly, the University of Western Australia found it most efficient. In actual fact, the University of Western Australia are paying 50 per cent out of the same fund, rather than the 40 per cent proposed by this bill. Luke Sheehy, from Universities Australia, told the inquiry:</para>
<quote><para class="block">It's a long-established practice in those universities that balances both the interests of students and student representation and, obviously, governance relating to the administration of that money.</para></quote>
<para>Despite supporting the measures in principle, several participants at the inquiry expressed concern that universities that don't already have a student led organisation would find it difficult to assist students to set up one by the time the requirement kicks in. The bill takes that into account and includes three- and five-year transition periods for providers if the measure creates challenges or issues.</para>
<para>This bill also massively expands the number of FEE-FREE Uni Ready courses. The Universities Accord says that, by 2050, 80 per cent of our workforce has to not just finish school but also go on to TAFE or to university. These FEE-FREE Uni Ready courses are effectively a bridge between school and university, and the expansion of these courses are an essential part of reaching that lofty goal. There are also important courses and measures that TAFEs have. TAFE is a very important institution in its own right—not only as a pathway to university.</para>
<para>The University of Tasmania told the inquiry that they already deliver a university preparation program and welcome funding for it to be extended. They told the inquiry:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Since 2020, this program has supported over 1,300 students to build the knowledge, skills and confidence to study at university. Of these students, 51% are first in family to attend university, 39% are from a low SES background, and 65% are under the age of 24.</para></quote>
<para>Contrary to what those opposite say in regard to this bill, it has significant advantages for those on low incomes as well as for people who are having their incomes held back by excessive charges. Unlike those opposite, we want all Australians to access the benefits of higher education no matter where they live or what background they come from. From our perspective, it is a worthwhile investment to help students to bridge the gap between secondary and higher education.</para>
<para>This bill introduces funding to education providers for paid practical placements so that teaching, nursing, midwifery and social work students get some financial support when they are required to do work experience as part of their degree. This will affect 68,000 students each year. We're talking about three million students paying lower fees. We're talking about 68,000 students getting financial support for practical placements. And we've got those opposite and the Greens saying these aren't significant figures. Well, they are millions and tens of thousands of people receiving the benefit of what this government's putting forward. These are substantial amounts of money. The Universities Accord report recommended that the government introduce financial support, but it also said that priority cohorts should be prioritised, especially occupations which have higher representations of women and First Nations people and which often have lower levels of earnings potential than other industries.</para>
<para>The submission from the Australian Services Union notes that social work students are currently required to do 1,000 hours, or 26 weeks, of unpaid placement. According to a survey from the ASU, the Australian Services Union, the current situation is causing drop-out rates to increase, with more than one in five studying a community services degree withdrawing from study due to financial stress. This will be life changing for students who are forced to choose between finishing their degree and paying their rent or putting food on the table.</para>
<para>Education providers also supported this measure. In their submission, the Australian Catholic University said this measure:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… will help students in these fields of study complete their degrees and reduce the bottleneck in the supply of higher education graduates in these critical fields of workforce shortage.</para></quote>
<para>The University of Sydney backed it in too, saying:</para>
<quote><para class="block">This initiative is very welcome as a first step towards addressing the issue of 'student placement poverty'.</para></quote>
<para>There were calls by several participants at the inquiry for payments to be means tested and allocated to students by government agencies like Services Australia. But key groups criticised this suggestion. The Australian Services Union said that universities are closer to students and have a closer relationship with them than Services Australia. The National Union of Students agreed and said that cutting out the middleman here and having students apply directly through the university is the simplest way to make sure this payment will be effective. The Department of Education said that the proposed approach ensures that higher education providers remain responsible for providing a quality practicum experience, including managing changes for practicum arrangements. It's also important to note that, to address the potential administrative burden of delivering these payments, the bill includes a five per cent loading to providers.</para>
<para>Other participants at the inquiry questioned whether eligibility for these payments should be extended to other courses. I note that Minister Andrew Giles announced on 19 August that the Commonwealth is also administering the Commonwealth prac payments for VET students and providing a $12 million boost for skilled teachers and trainers. As I said earlier, the Universities Accord and the commitments made by this government represent a step change for an industry that was left to drift by the Liberals and the Nationals, those opposite. We on this side are on the side of students, teachers and education providers, and the bills that are before the Senate this week are a down payment on the future of the higher education sector. I encourage those across this chamber to support this bill.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:44</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'SULLIVAN</name>
    <name.id>283585</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak on the Universities Accord (Student Support and Other Measures) Bill 2024. Firstly, I'd like to thank the committee and the committee chair for conducting the inquiry that we held into it and the collegial way in which we approached matters. Even when we disagree, we actually do work well together and we're able to prosecute the matters that are before the committee in a civil way. So I thank the committee for the way that we undertook this inquiry. I say that as the deputy chair of the Senate Education and Employment Legislation Committee.</para>
<para>The coalition does support this bill, though we will be proposing several amendments. But in my contribution here today I want to join with Senator Henderson in calling out the government for some of the failures that they have been presiding over in the higher education sector. We note that there are broad failings of the Albanese government, including its economic mismanagement and its homegrown cost-of-living crisis, which, of course, is affecting all Australians and, indeed, students.</para>
<para>I think students face higher costs of living than anyone else. I have a higher-ed-age student, who is about to commence next year, living in my home—my daughter. It's difficult for young people to be able to work out how to make ends meet, and that's what many students across the country are facing.</para>
<para>At a recent hearing of the Select Committee on the Cost of Living, we heard that an analysis by the <inline font-style="italic">Australian Financial Review</inline> in August 2024 illustrated that Australian households have experienced the largest fall in disposable incomes across the OECD over the last two years. This supports the body of evidence provided to the committee demonstrating that, in the last 2½ years, the cost of essential goods has increased rapidly while household incomes have not kept pace; therefore, any kind of HELP indexation relief from this bill is automatically swallowed up by the persistent and ongoing inflation, including the higher grocery prices.</para>
<para>This government seems to have little understanding of exactly what Australians are facing. By their actions they're demonstrating that they do not grasp the challenges that Australians are facing. Everyday prices have skyrocketed across this country. The cost of food is up 12 per cent. Health costs are up 10 per cent. The cost of education is up 12 per cent, housing 13 per cent, rent 16 per cent, electricity a whopping 31 per cent, and gas a staggering 34 per cent. It's little wonder that economist Chris Richardson said earlier this month on 3 November that handing $16 billion to graduates is 'a reverse Robin Hood'; it's a tax cut targeted to the big end of town, with money going from the less well off to the better off. He says it is 'a fairness fail', and he says: 'Worse still, that $16 billion does nothing for the nation's future.'</para>
<para>The education committee that I'm on held its public hearing on 24 September, and on 2 October the EEC was advised by the Department of Education and the Department of Employment and Workplace Relations that questions on notice resulting from the hearing would not be available until 11 October, well after the inquiry reporting date. That, frankly, is completely unacceptable. This committee does important work on behalf of all senators here in this place, and when we ask questions, we expect that those answers can be provided. When we're given a deadline to report back by the majority in this Senate, we need a timely response to the questions that are asked. In this case, we had questions that couldn't be answered by the department until after we were to have reported back to the Senate. This is unacceptable. It's an agenda and a timeline that is controlled by the government, using the numbers that they have here in this place. It's unacceptable that timelines that are set by the government cannot be met even by their own departments and, worse still, without instruction then being given to their departments to satisfactorily meet the deadlines that they need to meet in order to facilitate parliamentary procedure occurring—to facilitate an inquiry to properly examine all issues. Important questions are asked and not answered in a timely way.</para>
<para>The Senate inquiry process is meant to ensure that non-government senators and stakeholders—it's very important that we hear from stakeholders through these inquiry processes—are able to properly scrutinise government legislation and have access to the information required to better inform the process. As I said, it's the responsibility of the government to ensure that their own departments are able meet the deadlines. Sometimes there are reasons for delays. Sometimes the gathering of data can take some time. We accept that. But why, then, do the government, who are in control of the agenda in this place, set timelines that they themselves are not able to meet through their own administration? It's unacceptable. It's not proper governance. It really is a smack in the face for the constituents that voted for us and put us, in all parties, here in this place. Importantly, stakeholders have particular views that need to be considered and represented through our committee reports and our deliberations here in this place. When the government doesn't respect that, it really does slap the processes in this place, and it's a real shame. It demonstrates a continuing pattern right across the whole term of a Labor government that has treated the inquiry process with disdain.</para>
<para>I returning to the bill. Because of Labor's crippling cost-of-living crisis, more than three million Australians with a student debt have been hit with crippling increases to HELP indexation. Under Labor, HELP indexation rose by almost 16 per cent. That's 3.9 per cent in the first year of their government, 7.1 per cent in the following year and 4.3 per cent in this last financial year. For someone with an average loan of $24,700 as at June 2022, this has meant a debilitating increase of around $4,000 on top of their balance. In contrast to the average HELP indexation of only 1.7 per cent under the former coalition government, this increase constitutes a very significant increase in student debt.</para>
<para>What are the risks with the proposed changes? Mr Andrew Norton, a respected professor in the practice of higher education policy at ANU, appeared before the inquiry in a personal capacity and highlighted the dangers with the proposed changes to HELP indexation. He said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">My concern is that this leaves us vulnerable to a period where the CPI and the WPI are both high simultaneously—</para></quote>
<para>that, of course, is what we're dealing with—</para>
<quote><para class="block">kind of like we had in the 1970s. I don't think that's likely right now, but nor did we expect this kind of resurgence of inflation.</para></quote>
<para>In response to questions on notice, Mr Norton also stated:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The function of a loan scheme like HELP is to help people achieve their educational and career goals, doing so in a way that balances managing their personal financial risks and the government's fiscal position. All parts of the system—the original fees charged, the indexation arrangements, and the repayment system—need to work together in a coherent way to achieve these objectives.</para></quote>
<para>How will the government's changes assist regional students? This is an important question that needs to be asked. Regional Universities Australia said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">These amendments will provide little to no cost of living/cost of study relief to those students enrolled at Australia's universities today, who face the immediate pressures of study during the current cost of living crisis. Nor will there be any substantial, immediate benefit to Australians currently paying off their HELP loan. If these students are already in the workforce, their ongoing HELP loan repayments remain fixed and unchanged under this amendment.</para></quote>
<para>So who will benefit? It's unfair to millions of Australians who do not have student loans. Only people who have paid off their HELP debt—estimated to be around 200,000 out of the total of three million debtors—will receive an actual refund. But those refunds are only payable once all other Commonwealth debts, such as for child support, are cleared. As I said, this is not delivering the help that is needed, particularly for those facing the high increased costs of living.</para>
<para>In the short time I have remaining I want to address another matter of this bill—that is, the student services and amenities fee. This bill mandates a minimum of 40 per cent of student services and amenities revenue be directed to student led organisations, including student associations, unions and guilds. Students studying at university or with a higher education provider pay what is known as the student services and amenities fee. It is set to a maximum each year—this year it is set at $351—and is collected by universities to provide non-academic support. This includes help with housing, health and welfare, career advice, the provision of library or study areas, financial advice, legal services and providing food and drink. In 2023 more than $278 million was collected through these fees, of which, according to the Department of Education, $110 million, or 38 per cent, went to student led organisations.</para>
<quote><para class="block">The Accord report noted that while universities have discretion on how they use these funds—as long as they use them for the intended purpose—it is a financial source that student unions rely on heavily.</para></quote>
<para>This measure appears to be driven more broadly by ideology rather than by common sense, a pattern that we see continuing to recur with this government. Some student organisations do not have the capacity to deliver appropriate student services, and some universities have also raised these concerns. We are deeply concerned that this bill lacks any measures which require transparency and accountability as to how student union guilds and associations would be using this funding. There must be clear rules. There ought to be clear rules. These are hard-earned student levies that are being paid by students. Those fees that are paid should be accounted for.</para>
<para>During the inquiry, many providers raised concerns in their submissions about the likely unintended consequences of this proposal, including that student led organisations 'do not have the capacity or the expertise to deliver essential supports for students, such as mental health assistance or, indeed, food banks'. Submissions also noted that the changes may result in 'employment uncertainty for some staff'. Universities Australia recommended:</para>
<quote><para class="block">…that changes to how the SSAF is used be deferred until the proposal has been further developed in consultation with the sector because of substantial concerns raised by UA's members.</para></quote>
<para>There should be clear rules about approved expenditure to ensure that only essential services which directly support students are funded. It's abhorrent, for instance, for any such funds to be used by any organisation for anti-Jewish or anti-Israel student protests, which we have seen. It should be clear that the funds cannot be used for those types of activities. It should be absolutely crystal clear, but it's not under this bill; it's a free-for-all. Safeguards need to be put in place to prevent this from occurring.</para>
<para>The coalition seeks an amendment to remove the 40 per cent allocation requirement to allow students the flexibility to be able to distribute SSAF funds in ways that best meet their needs, and we want to see accountability in it. Transparency and clear guidelines for SSAF expenditure are essential to ensure that only essential services directly supporting student needs are funded, rather than allowing for potential ideological misuse of student fees.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:59</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DAVID POCOCK</name>
    <name.id>256136</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>It is an indictment on both major parties and successive administrations that Australian governments collect more money from HECS than from the petroleum resource rent tax—not just a little bit more, a lot more. In 2022-23 petroleum resource rent tax collections totalled nearly $2.3 billion, compared to $4.9 billion in student loan repayments. If you want to know what state capture looks like, this is it: a country that is happy to be one of the top three gas exporters in the world, yet it collects more from students repaying their loans than from these gas companies in petroleum resource rent tax. It's disgraceful, and I think it should form part of this debate, because it goes to our priorities. It goes to the kinds of things that we're seeing this Senate and this parliament deal with and the kinds of things that are being kicked down the road and not being dealt with.</para>
<para>For those who might be asking what the petroleum resource rent tax is, it's what we should be getting for our offshore LNG exports. States and territories don't have a levy on that. I was up in Darwin for a Senate committee looking at Middle Arm. We were out on the harbour talking to some NT government officials. We were hearing about the impact that IMPEX and its export facility were having on the harbour. Fishers were saying that they're seeing a decline in sea life. Researchers were saying that they're concerned that dolphins and other sea life seem to have declined by about 50 per cent since IMPEX set up this facility. I said to the NT officials, 'What do you guys actually get out of having IMPEX here on the harbour?' They looked at me a bit sheepishly and said, 'We get payroll tax,' which I think is extraordinary. They said, 'Don't worry. Australia will get the petroleum resource rent tax.' But when you go to Treasury and ask them, 'How much PRRT have you got from offshore LNG exports?' it's zero dollars and zero cents.</para>
<para>This is nuts. It is totally nuts that we allow this to happen. What are our priorities as a country? Are we happy to saddle students with debt while, at the same time, we let all these multinationals basically take our gas for free, export it and then weave some crazy narrative about how much they contribute because they're paying payroll tax, which everyone does? You look at the experience of Norway—a $2 trillion sovereign wealth fund—while Australia has $1 trillion of national debt. Come on! We have to see a change here.</para>
<para>I recently had a young man come into my office to talk about HECS. He had heard some of the debate and he said, 'After hearing politicians talking about HECS, I wanted to show you a real example.' He'd printed out a list of his HECS and his compulsory repayments. He'd completed a bachelor of arts degree and a masters degree, which he said ended up getting him the job that he has—he learnt that, because so many people applied, they basically excluded people who didn't have a masters. He has a HECS debt of over $83,000—a debt that, despite him making regular compulsory payments, hasn't gone down in almost a decade. Even the government's promised 20 per cent debt forgiveness won't cover the quantum paid in indexation. Clearly, the system here is broken. The cost of degrees is too high, and the way that we index students is not working. How we're indexing HECS is totally unfair.</para>
<para>I'll acknowledge that the Universities Accord (Student Support and Other Measures) Bill 2024 goes partway to fixing it. The change in the rate of indexation is very welcome, but clearly more needs to be done. I don't understand why the government is waiting. I don't understand why they're kicking hard reforms that will make such a huge difference to Australians down the road. The <inline font-style="italic">Australian </inline><inline font-style="italic">Universities Accord final report</inline> could not have been clearer. The Job-ready Graduates system needs to go. It's the primary driver of increased fees and long-term debt for students. It is fundamentally unfair and ideologically driven. The government were very happy to say that in opposition. Yet after almost a full term—we're in the last two sitting weeks of this year and probably of this term of government—what have they done? They've put off the hard task of reforming Job-ready Graduates and they've given it to the Australian Tertiary Education Commission, a body that hasn't even yet been established. How's that for a handball? How's that for kicking a can as far down the road as you possibly can? My second reading amendment goes to this issue.</para>
<para>It also goes to the issue of timing when it comes to the indexation of student debt. Changing the rate of indexation is terrific. It's a great, welcome move. Why, at the same time, aren't we changing the date of indexation? How can we in good conscience charge people with a HECS debt indexation, which is essentially interest, on repayments that they've already made? Can you imagine trying to do that anywhere else? Imagine if you had a mortgage and the bank said: 'Pay us all this back for 11 months, and then we're going to charge you interest. We're not going to include the 11 months that you've just paid off.' It's nuts. This makes no sense. How have we allowed this to happen? If banks tried that or if someone who gave you a loan to buy a vehicle tried that, it wouldn't cut it, and I guarantee you that this place would fix the problem in a matter of days. But, when it comes to students and to Australians who are really struggling in a cost-of-living crisis, why don't we see the same urgency?</para>
<para>I also think we should be considering and moving on pausing indexation until compulsory repayments kick in. It's one thing to delay when compulsory repayments start, but obviously, with compound interest, you're ultimately setting yourself up for more repayments. So the one thing is welcome, but we're not actually fixing this underlying issue. Again, to come back to the start of this, government and Treasury will say: 'Well, we can't afford everything you want. You're on the crossbench and you're not in government. You can't come up with all these airy-fairy demands.' Until we fix the petroleum resource rent tax, you have no argument to stand on. To give away our gas, to get more from HECS than from the petroleum resource rent tax and to be one of the top three LNG exporters in the world doesn't cut it.</para>
<para>I really think it's time to stop tinkering. It's time to put away the bandaids and bring out the serious policy reform options, because Australians are doing it tough. They're doing it incredibly tough, and there are a lot of people looking to the parliament and saying: 'What are you doing for us? You've got to know how hard we're doing it here.' Young people are putting off their future and delaying making decisions. Where has the reform been when it comes to competition? We know we have tragically condensed sectors of the economy here in Australia, whether it's supermarkets, banks, insurers or airlines, and it's no surprise that that's been overseen by the ultimate duopoly, the duopoly that is now telling us that they're going to ram through electoral reform to protect the duopoly in the land of duopolies in a matter of weeks, without parliamentary scrutiny, after we hear so much about the need for proper process and parliamentary scrutiny. When it's in their interests, stuff can happen very quickly in this place.</para>
<para>Well, I think we should be acting quickly in the interests of Australians, and I just want to put on the record how many Canberrans—I know a lot of people think Canberrans are wealthy—whom I've spoken to who are genuinely doing it tough. Coming up to Christmas, we all know there's expectation and there are more families than there should be in this country who are looking at Christmas, at the festive season, with a sense of trepidation and are concerned about what that means for their family.</para>
<para>I welcome a number of measures in this bill—I thank the government for them—but I urge the government to stop tinkering. Australians are looking to us for wholesale change on things that are fundamentally broken. If the system is broken, let's not just try and patch it up and say, 'Well, it'll keep going for a bit longer; she'll be right.' Let's actually change it. That seems like the reason that people put us in this place.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:10</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator STEWART</name>
    <name.id>299352</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Education unlocks economic opportunity, which is why the education of Australians, from early childhood all the way through to adulthood, is a focus for the Albanese Labor government. We've got a pretty good education system, but it can be a lot better and a lot fairer. The Universities Accord (Student Support and Other Measures) Bill 2024 is an important part of achieving that goal. This bill is the first stage of the implementation of the Universities Accord, responding to 29 of the accord's 47 recommendations. We know that, after 10 years of coalition neglect, the tertiary system will have to be reformed in stages. Piece by piece, we will build up Australia's tertiary education system to be one that is high performing and truly fair.</para>
<para>First, this legislation alters the indexation formula of the Higher Education Loan Program. The annual indexation of HELP debt will now be based on the consumer price index or the wage price index, whichever is lower. We know HECS debt is negatively impacting the lives of many Australians, particularly gen Z and millennials. Many of them are trying to start their adult lives, boost their education, kick start their career, make a living and/or purchase their first home. This is against the backdrop of global cost-of-living pressures, climate change and a tumultuous geopolitical environment. That's why this bill ensures that HECS debt won't grow faster than wages and will help students to be students and to study without stress. It will erase around $3 billion in student debt for three million Australians across the country, providing relief to workers, apprentices, trainees and students.</para>
<para>Our government understands the economic pain caused by the opposition's unfair indexation hikes, which is why these changes will apply to all student support loans that existed on 1 June 2023. This means that last year's consumer price indexation of 7.1 per cent will be replaced with the lower wage price index rate of 3.2 per cent while also reducing this year's indexation from 4.7 per cent to four per cent. As a result, an Australian with an average student debt of $26½ thousand will see around $1,200 wiped from their student loan. For someone with a debt of $45,000, it will mean that their debt is cut by around $2,000. For someone with a debt of $60,000, it will mean their debt is cut by almost $2,700.</para>
<para>Second, this bill allows for grants to be paid to higher education providers for a new Commonwealth prac payment. Students have told us that mandatory placements not only see them work without pay but prevent them from working jobs outside of their studies. This means that many Australians either delay finishing their degree or don't finish at all, simply because they cannot afford to. The Albanese Labor government hears these concerns and has introduced a payment for eligible teaching, nursing, midwifery and social work students. The other thing that these industries have in common is that they are female dominated industries, so we know this will be better for women too. We know how important these jobs are to our country, which is why we're providing the support that these students need.</para>
<para>Third, the bill establishes a new Commonwealth grants scheme funding cluster for fee-free university-ready courses. These fee-free courses provide a bridge between school and university, providing Australians with the foundational skills they need to succeed at university. Across Australia, we will uncap fee-free university-ready courses, giving more Australians the opportunity to pursue university study. Fourth, the bill requires higher education providers to allocate at least 40 per cent of the student services and amenities fees revenue they collect from students to student led bodies. We know how important it is that students have a say in how their services and amenities fees are spent and we are acting accordingly.</para>
<para>Our higher education system was neglected by the previous government for over a decade. Not only was it neglected by the coalition but it was made more unfair through changes made to lower payment thresholds. Our government is fixing this by making further changes related to student loans and their repayments. The Albanese Labor government will raise the minimum repayment threshold for student loans and cut repayment rates to make the repayment system fairer for all three million Australians with a student debt.</para>
<para>The lifting of the minimum repayment threshold from around $54,000 in 2024-25 to $67,000 in 2025-26 will allow Australians to keep more of what they earn at a time when many are looking to save for a house deposit or start a family. We are also introducing a system where repayments are based on the portion of a person's income above the new $67,000 threshold. For someone on an income of around $70,000, this will mean they will save around $1,300 a year in lower repayments. The government's move to a marginal repayments system is informed by the architect of the HELP system, Professor Bruce Chapman, and responds to another recommendation of the Australian Universities Accord. These changes mark the most significant reform to Australia's higher education system in more than 35 years.</para>
<para>When our government came to office, we inherited an economy in distress. Inflation was at 6.1 per cent and climbing dangerously in an upwards spiral, reflecting the troubled economy and policy vacuum left by the former coalition government. In recognition of the pressure that the coalition's unjust economic policies placed on Australians with student debt, the Albanese Labor government will, if re-elected, wipe 20 per cent off all existing student loans by 1 June next year. In doing so, we will erase around $16 billion in debt for more than three million Australians with a student loan. The wiping of student debt builds on our changes to the HELP indexation formula and will save a university student with an average HECS debt of around $26,500 more than $5,000. All up, the average student loan will be around $6,500 lower if the Albanese Labor team is re-elected, and it will be done by 1 June next year.</para>
<para>The Albanese Labor government understands that our tertiary system doesn't include just universities. In the past decade alone, we have seen state and federal coalition governments defund and shut down our TAFEs, which are invaluable in providing our workforce with the workers that Australians need. That's why the government will introduce legislation to permanently fund 100,000 fee-free TAFE places a year from 2027 onwards. Permanent fee-free TAFE builds on the government's existing partnership with states and territories to deliver 180,000 places in 2023 and 300,000 places over three years from 2024. Since the Albanese government introduced fee-free TAFE in January 2023, the program has seen 508,000 enrolments in courses in areas of priority for the Australian economy. This includes 131,000 in care, including disability and aged care; 48,000 in technology; 35,000 in construction; and 35,500 in early childhood education and care.</para>
<para>Our government is not just talk; we are about action. We are expanding Australians' access to our tertiary system. A record 170,000 young Australians, 124,000 jobseekers and 30,000 First Nations Australians have enrolled in TAFE courses under our government. I am proud to be part of a government that prioritises education pathways for Australians, no matter who you are and no matter where you come from. This is starkly different from the former coalition government's blatant disdain for vocational study.</para>
<para>The Universities Accord is not only bigger than one piece of legislation but bigger than one term of parliament. This is a historical commitment of national importance. Minister Jason Clare and the broader Albanese Labor government will continue to ensure Australians' tertiary system is fit for purpose for modern Australia. It's time we make it right and it's time we make it fairer.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:20</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HODGINS-MAY</name>
    <name.id>310860</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Student debt in our country has spiralled out of control as people graduate with bigger and bigger debts that grow every year and take longer to pay off. Total student debt in Australia sits at a whopping $81 billion and it's holding our young people back. From western Victoria to Gippsland, I'm hearing from students across Victoria about how student debt is forcing them to juggle multiple jobs just to make ends meet. They're graduating from university and TAFE facing a decade of debt during a raging cost-of-living crisis and struggling to pay their rent or mortgage. I'm hearing about how student debt is locking people out of the housing market, how it's causing people to delay having families and how it's crushing kids' dreams of going to university. Education shouldn't be a debt sentence, but the reality in this country is that it is.</para>
<para>The Greens have relentlessly pushed the Albanese government, since they came to power, to deliver desperately needed student debt relief, and the pressure has worked. We have secured changes to indexation, as well as the most recent commitment to raising the minimum repayment income and cut student debt by 20 per cent after the election. This is a big win for the Greens and for all of those in the community who have pleaded and pushed for action to tackle skyrocketing student debt. Our campaign has made this progress socially and politically possible.</para>
<para>Sadly, Labor's tweaks to student debt won't provide relief to the millions of people struggling under the weight of ballooning debts in a cost-of-living crisis today. Labor's plan to cut 20 per cent of student debt after the election will be too little too late. People need cost-of-living relief now. The government's plan to provide student debt relief will still see student debt rise by 11½ per cent in its first term. Student debt keeps going up and up. In fact, even after these changes, student debt will have risen by over 10 per cent in Labor's first term of government.</para>
<para>Labor say they're wiping $3 billion from student debt, but they're just shaving a tiny bit of indexation from the top of a giant swelling debt pile—$3 billion off $78 billion is but a drop in the ocean. Let's be clear: 80 per cent of a lifetime of debt is still a lifetime of debt. Labor's rhetoric of wiping student debt simply isn't correct; its policy ambition doesn't match its social media messaging. We have thousands of students drowning in debt in a broken university system, yet we have a Prime Minister who went to university for free saying he'll scrape a little bit off your student debt—like your parents would cut the mould off a block of cheese—but only if you vote him back into government for another term.</para>
<para>Now, I'm not sure if there are any spaces available in politics 101, and the Prime Minister might actually have to pay for the course this time. In it, he might learn that the benches over on that side of the chamber are where the government sit. They have the ability to implement this, and we Greens are over here willing to pass it right now, because students cannot wait.</para>
<para>If Anthony Albanese can go to uni for free, everyone else should be able to. The young people of our country deserve to have the same opportunities as the Prime Minister had. We need an overhaul of the way that we do higher education in this country. The Greens are proud to be the party of public education. We will keep pushing and fighting to wipe all student debt and to make uni and TAFE free, unburdening almost three billion people of their debts and allowing people to keep more of their income. Free uni would boost our economy, reduce economic inequality and give countless more people the opportunity to follow their passions. Let's not forget that it wasn't that long ago that university was free in this country, and it's still free in numerous countries around the world—France, Germany, Sweden, Norway and Denmark. Student debt shouldn't be dangled like a carrot on a stick and held hostage to the next election. People are sick and tired of the political game being played with their lives. The Greens are calling on Labor to bring in a bill right now to fulfil their promise of wiping 20 per cent of student debt, like they have done for free TAFE places today.</para>
<para>There is no reason to wait until after the next election to legislate these changes. The Greens are ready to work with Labor to deliver these changes that will make life better for millions of people. We have the numbers in parliament to do it right now. Labor needs to get on with passing student debt relief immediately. Then we'll work with Labor to wipe all student debt and make TAFE and university free. Wiping all student debt will make real, tangible difference to so many people doing it tough, especially in a cost-of-living crisis. Wiping student debt will put money back in the pockets of people who desperately need it to make ends meet, pay rent, save for a deposit for their home and buy their medicine. Wiping student debt is the right thing to do.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:25</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WALSH</name>
    <name.id>252157</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak on the Universities Accord (Student Support and Other Measures) Bill 2024, which aims to bring in legislation that will give students a fairer go, uplift Australia's world-class higher education system and take the first steps in implementing the Universities Accord. This bill will wipe almost $3 billion in student debt for more than three million Australians. Students from across Australia have cried out for a fairer loans system after last year's indexation spike, and our reforms are addressing just that by capping the HELP indexation at the lower of either the consumer price index or the wage price index. We're backdating this change to 1 June 2023. If you're a student and you have an average debt of $26,500, you will see up to $1,200 wiped from your loan. If you have a debt of $45,000, you will see about $2,000 wiped from your loan. If you have a debt of $60,000, you will see almost $2,700 wiped from your loan. This relief is timely and well deserved by Australia's students past, present and future.</para>
<para>Our bill means more relief is on the way. If you're studying to be a midwife, nurse, teacher or social worker, you will receive practical support for your practical placements. Around 70,000 higher education and VET students will benefit from paid prac, and for many this will be absolutely life changing. Without this support, students have made the difficult choice to delay or even leave their qualification, unable to support themselves through their placements. Yet they're working towards careers in absolutely essential industries and in some of Australia's most important sectors. We absolutely can't afford to lose them. Universities gave broad support for paid prac payments, with our largest educator of teachers and nurses in Australia, Australian Catholic University, saying they are 'greatly supportive of this measure, which will help students in these fields of study complete their degree and reduce the bottleneck in the supply of higher education graduates in these critical fields of workforce shortage'. Similarly, the social work action group at RMIT University welcomed these changes as well, saying they were 'a long overdue step to address student poverty, inclusive education and workforce shortages'.</para>
<para>Recently in Gippsland, I met Louise Allen, a nursing lecturer at Federation University, and we had a long discussion about how these prac payments will help her students. She told me just how important these payments will be for regional and rural universities and students. Many of her students are taking up a degree later in life, so they've already got their cost structures set up. Many of them are some of the 40 per cent of Federation University's students who are the first in their family to study at university. These changes—these practical solutions, these prac payments—will allow students to focus on what is important, which is their studies, by giving them that little bit extra financial support. For a young mum from Morwell studying to be a social worker at Federation University, this will mean practical support for her practical training, so she can complete her studies and then go on and do what we really need her to do, which is to give back to her community, utilising her degree.</para>
<para>This bill not only delivers relief for students here and now, but it also paves the way for more Australians to achieve a tertiary education, with the expansion of FEE-FREE University Ready courses, which bridge the gap between school and university. We want to support and uplift the aspirations of all Australians, and this reform is expected to increase the number of people doing these free courses by about 40 per cent by the end of the decade and then double that number in the decade after that. If you want a university degree, these courses will help you get the skills to get there.</para>
<para>My own mother was a passionate teacher and she was the first in her family to attend university. I had no choice, and my brother and sister had no choice either, but to inherit the belief and the commitment that it is education that makes a real difference in life. That is a sentiment shared by this Labor government. So many of us are the first in family to go to university and so many of us are the children of the first in family to go to university, so we are absolutely passionately committed to making higher education accessible and more affordable to all Australians who want the opportunity to do it.</para>
<para>Whether you're the first in your family or the fifth to seek out formal higher education, you deserve a fair go and you deserve a system that will support you every step of the way. By wiping student debt, introducing paid prac and strengthening FEE-FREE University Ready courses, we are making progress, we are creating pathways and we are helping Australians into the good, secure jobs that await them at the end of their courses. After all, Labor is the party of education.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:31</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator TYRRELL</name>
    <name.id>300639</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak on the Universities Accord (Student Support and Other Measures) Bill 2024. At the outset, I should say this bill is better than no bill at all. I'll be supporting the bill, more out of desperation than joy. We need action in this space, and some action is better than none. But, I have to tell you, I'm disappointed we haven't done more to fix the real problems facing our students.</para>
<para>Take student placement units. These are units that the student completes externally. They don't go to university to do it; they go somewhere else, with no classes, no tutorials, no workshops. They are not taught by any university employees; no university facilities are used. The cost to the student with this bill and without it is the same as a unit delivered fully within the university campus by university employees. We're still charging students the same fees for their placement units as we do for their regular classes. How can that be right? These are our future nurses, teachers and social workers we're talking about.</para>
<para>Yes, the new Commonwealth prac payment is a step forward. As someone without a degree, as someone who's experienced what it's like to go without, I get what it feels like to wonder whether your rent money is coming in, so I'm all in favour of helping you out. But we're still asking these students to pay full university fees while they're basically working for free. This problem is particularly concerning when I think about placement overseas. We have students doing placements in places like New Zealand or Singapore, and they're still paying full Australian university fees, even when the overseas hospital or school is doing most of the teaching. That's not right. It's not fair.</para>
<para>Think about what we're asking of these students. They're often having to cut back their paid work hours. Some are having to move away from home. For students studying things like clinical psychology or occupational therapy, we're talking about more than 1,000 hours of placements. That's an awful lot to ask of anyone, let alone young people who are just starting out. While I appreciate the government's trying to help with this new payment, I have to say I'm worried about how it's all going to work. How will they decide who gets what? How will the universities manage it? We need much clearer answers.</para>
<para>The bill does some good things. Changes to HELP debt and the FEE-FREE Uni Ready courses are steps in the right direction. But we need to be honest about this placement fee issue. We're asking students to pay full price for something that isn't a full service. Whether they're studying here, at home, or gaining valuable experience overseas, they deserve better than this.</para>
<para>The argument about students dropping out during placements often focuses on money. People say students can't afford to work for free, that the financial pressure causes them to quit, but when we look closer it's not that simple. Take medical students—they do some of the longest unpaid placements you can imagine, yet they're the most likely to stick with their studies. These are students who got very high marks in school. They could have chosen any course that they wanted. They're in medicine because that's exactly where they want to be. Compare that to courses with lower entry requirements like social work. Goodness knows we desperately need more social workers in our regional communities. Some of these students might be there because it's what they could get into, not necessarily what they dreamed of doing. Their connection to their studies might not be as strong, so when the going gets tough, when they're facing unpaid placements and financial pressure, they might be more likely to question if it's worth it.</para>
<para>This isn't about ability—I've known brilliant social workers who didn't get high marks in school. It's about how committed students feel to their chosen path. If you've worked your whole life to get into medicine, you're probably going to push through the hard times. If you're in a course because it was available and seemed okay, those unpaid placements might be the thing that makes you wonder if there is something else you'd rather do. This bill helps with affordability, and that's important, but if we really want to help our students succeed, we need to do more. We need proper support for all students during placements, yes, but we also need to help young people find the right path for them, not just the path that their ATAR happened to match. When a student drops out, we all lose. That young person loses precious time and money and our communities lose what they could have contributed. We can do better than that—we must do better than that.</para>
<para>I want to talk about these student services and amenities fees, because there are two things that really don't sit right with me. First, we're making distance students pay these fees even though they can't use any of the services—think about that for a moment. We're asking students, many of them parents or working full-time or living in remote parts of Tasmania, to pay for campus gyms and cafeterias they will never see. It's like asking someone in Smithton to pay membership fees for a gym in Hobart; it just doesn't make any sense. This isn't an abstract concern, either. We have many Tasmanian students who are required to either travel long distances or study remotely. For mature-age students who work full-time and study after hours, how many times are they going to the uni pub? Do they really benefit from cheaper parties? There are not as many students using these services—full stop—because there are not as many students spending hours a day on campus.</para>
<para>The world of university has changed so much in the last 30 years. When I talk to students in my community, many of them are studying online. They're juggling family responsibilities, they're working to make ends meet, they're fitting their education around their lives—and that's wonderful. It's giving more people the chance to learn and grow. But our thinking about the fees is stuck in the past. This bill does try to do something about student fees. It says universities have to give 40 per cent of this money to student led organisations. That sounds good on paper. Our students should have a say in how their money is spent. But this brings me to my second concern: why 40 per cent? Why not 50? Or 60? No-one seems to be able to explain this figure. I have read through everything, and I can't find any justification. Think about it—this is money our students are paying. Many of them are from families who count every single dollar. Why shouldn't students have an even bigger say in how it's spent? Why not half? Why not more than half? I've heard some people say that giving more money to student organisations might mean universities can't provide important services like mental health support, but that doesn't quite add up. Universities already fund these vital services through other channels—that's not what this fee is about. So we have two problems here: we're charging fees to students who can't use the services, and we're not giving students enough say in how their money is spent. Our thinking needs to catch up with reality.</para>
<para>University today is not just about sitting in lecture halls and hanging out in the student union. For many of our students, it's about logging in from their kitchen table after their kids are in bed. We need to fix both these things. Our distance students should haven't to pay for services they can't use. If we truly believe in giving students a voice—and I do—then we need to explain this 40 per cent figure and ask ourselves honestly: are we giving students enough say in how their money is spent?</para>
<para>The bill shifts the calculation of HELP debt indexation to using the lower of CPI or WPI, instead of just using CPI. This will rarely make a difference. Maybe every seven or eight years it will matter, but it won't matter for most students. Something that would make a meaningful and fair change to the HELP debt indexation system would be to change the timing of the indexation. Imagine you have a HELP debt of 40 grand. You're doing the right thing: working hard and making your repayments through the tax system all year long. Let's say you've paid off four grand over the year. You'd think your debt would be $36,000 when they calculate the interest, wouldn't you? That would be fair. That would make sense. But that's not what happens. Instead, on 1 June, they pretend you haven't made any of these payments. They add the interest to your full 40 grand. Only after that do they take off your $4,000 in payments. It's as if they're charging you interest on money you've already paid back.</para>
<para>Here's what makes this even worse. Remember that we're charging students full fees for their placement units, so a nursing student doing their placement is racking up HELP debt at the same time at the same rate as if they were in lectures every single day. They're working full time and unpaid in a hospital, and we're charging them thousands in fees. Then we're charging them interest on those fees before we count their repayments.</para>
<para>The member for Goldstein and the member for Warringah support the same change I do: change when we add the interest and do it after we've taken off the repayments people have made. It's not complicated; it's just fair. But are the government fixing this? No. They're patting themselves on the back for using a lower interest rate, but they're leaving this fundamental unfairness in place. They're leaving our nurses, our teachers and our social workers stuck in this cycle. Think about what this means. A student nurse doing their placement is earning nothing, being charged full fees and building up HELP debt. Then, when they start working and making repayments, we don't even calculate the interest fairly. It's as if we are making it as hard as possible for them to get ahead.</para>
<para>This isn't some technical detail; this is about basic fairness. These students take on these debts to get an education, to build better lives and to serve our communities. The least we can do is make sure the system treats them fairly when they're paying it back. The government needs to fix this, not next year or in some future reform but now. With the unfairness of placement fees and this interest calculation, it's too much. Our students deserve better than a system that feels like it's designed to keep them in debt. Take it from someone who never went to university, I see the value in university education. I believe in university education. I think it's hugely important. I believe it should be open to everyone who wants to learn and who wants to build a better life. That's why it breaks my heart to see what's happening in our universities today.</para>
<para>Look at where we are now. Our universities spend more time and money marketing themselves in South-East Asia than they do looking after students from places like northern Tasmania. I don't blame the universities for this. They're just trying to keep their doors open. They're doing what they have to do to pay their bills. The sad truth is that teaching Australian students isn't profitable anymore. Think about that for a moment. Our own universities can't make ends meet by educating our own people. That's how broken this system has become. They have to rely on international students to keep the lights on. So what happens? Our domestic students become an afterthought. Universities charge them as much as they can and spend as little as they can get away with, not because they want to but because they have to. We've created a system where you can't run a university in Australia unless you have an office in Singapore, Jakarta or Shanghai.</para>
<para>This bill makes some small improvements. It helps around the edges, but it's not addressing the real problem. It's not fixing the fact that our universities see Australian students as a secondary concern compared to what actually pays the bills. One day I hope we see a bill that really tackles this problem, a bill that makes teaching Australian students sustainable again. That is the bill I'm waiting for. That's the bill I will be truly excited to support. This isn't that bill. It's something, and something is better than nothing, but let's not pretend it's more than it is.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:45</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKIM</name>
    <name.id>JKM</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Well, this parliament is chock-a-block full of folks who had access to a free university education. From Prime Minister Anthony Albanese on down, there is a massive group of Labor MPs and current Labor ministers who had access to a free university education. It's the height of hypocrisy that now a government chock-a-block full of Labor folks who had access to a free university education supports massive charges in the form of HECS that actually saddle people who want to go to university with a massive debt.</para>
<para>Labor's announcement that they would wipe 20 per cent of student debt if they win the next election is testament to a massive community campaign—through a massive effort by so many people, including the Greens in this place led by our awesome deputy leader, Senator Mehreen Faruqi—not only against student debt but to wipe the entirety of student debt in this country. It is not only testament to that campaign but also a massive missed opportunity by Labor, because there is no reason, no reason at all, why Labor couldn't come in here and legislate that plan today. The numbers are here to pass that legislation through both houses of this parliament if the Labor Party would get on board.</para>
<para>Interestingly, Labor have introduced legislation to make some TAFE places fee-free in the future. They've introduced that legislation, but they are not introducing legislation to wipe 20 per cent off student debt. It is a toxic move by Labor to make that legislation contingent on their re-election. The Greens stand ready to legislate today to wipe 20 per cent off debt levels to give effect to Labor's new policy. In fact, we not only stand ready today but we will give Labor a chance to vote for their policy when we move an amendment to this legislation to wipe 20 per cent off student debt starting on 1 July next year. We don't need to wait for election to legislate to give effect to Labor's policy; we could do it now. We call on the Labor Party to stop playing base politics with this issue and actually start delivering for people who are getting smashed by high levels of student debt. People are hurting. People need relief now. They don't need that to be contingent on election results in the first half of next year.</para>
<para>What Labor are saying is that they don't have enough commitment to their own position to legislate for it now. What Labor is saying to people with students debt is, if you want 20 per cent wiped off your student debt, you have to do what the Labor Party is telling you. What Labor is saying and effectively admitting to people is that this isn't about their levels of student debt at all. It's not about people's levels of HECS debt; it's about trying to leverage votes for the Australian Labor Party. It's well beyond time that Labor got serious about this, like they are with their legislation to make some TAFE places fee-free. If it's good enough to legislate this year to make some TAFE places fee free in the future, then it should be good enough to legislate to wipe 20 per cent off student debt, and to give effect to that this year. But Labor's too interested in playing political games and not interested enough in actually doing something meaningful to help people who are getting smashed with high levels of HECS debt now.</para>
<para>What this exposes is that Labor is becoming more and more worried about young people in particular voting for the Greens. That's what this is about. We see you, Mr Albanese. We see you, Dr Chalmers. We see what you are doing. We see this cynical play where you are refusing to introduce legislation to give effect to your own position because you want to make the delivery of that position contingent on a particular election outcome. We see you, and we see right through you. That's why we're going to introduce amendments to this legislation that will give effect to your policy. Let's see what you do. Are you going to do the right thing and vote in support of your own policy to wipe 20 per cent off student debt from 1 July next year, or are you going to vote against your own policy? What you do here will make very clear what your motivations are. If you really care about people who are getting smashed by student debt, vote this week in this place to ensure that, from 1 July next year, 20 per cent will be wiped off student debt in this country.</para>
<para>If you are—and I suspect this is far more likely—simply announcing this policy as a cynical electoral ploy, that'll be revealed if you vote against your own policy. My prediction—and I make this with a high level of certainty—is that you're going to vote against your own policy this week. You're going to do that because you care more about yourselves than you do about people who are getting smashed by high levels of student debt. That's where we're going to find ourselves this week. People like Mr Albanese, who had access to free university education, and people in his cabinet and people in his caucus—dozens of them—who had access to free university education back in the day, are going to take a position that will expose them as nothing more than cynical political players. It will expose that they're actually not proposing this policy because they want to help people; they are proposing it because they think it's in their own electoral interests. That is the height of hypocrisy.</para>
<para>Student debt should be wiped completely in this country. University should be free in this country—like it used to be free, like it was free for the Prime Minister and like it was free for dozens of his cabinet and caucus colleagues. University should be free, because we should not be disincentivising people to go to university. We should be encouraging anyone who wants to go to university and get a tertiary education for free, just like it used to be. It is the height of hypocrisy for this Prime Minister, Mr Albanese, and for his dozens of caucus and cabinet colleagues who had free university education, to oppose a free university education today.</para>
<para>Well, let's see what you do when the Greens serve up your own policy to you this week. Let's see what you do. I predict very, very confidently that you're going to vote against your policy. You're going to vote against the Greens' attempts to legislate your own position, and, in doing so, you will expose the fact that you are not proposing to wipe 20 per cent off student debt levels in this country because you want to help people, but that you are doing it because it's in your own political self-interest to do so. If you were serious about helping people, you would vote this week to legislate your own policy.</para>
<para>The evolution of this debate and this issue shows the power of having the Greens on the crossbench in this place. And I use that word 'power' unashamedly. People put the Greens into this position of having the balance of power so that we could fight for them—so we could fight for things like putting dental and mental health into Medicare; so we could fight to raise income support; so we could fight for climate action; so we could fight to save our beautiful forests; so we could fight to make GP visits free; so we could fight to make big corporations pay their fair share of tax; so we could use that revenue to help people who are getting smashed by the cost of living and accelerate the transition into renewable energy. That's why people put us in this place, and that power and that campaign—where we have worked hand in hand with so many thousands in the Australian community to campaign to wipe student debt—has actually led the Labor Party into a position where they have had no choice but to do something. And—classic Labor—they've decided to do the bare minimum. But at least this one is a step in the right direction. Wiping 20 per cent off student debt is not as strong as it should be, because what we should be doing in this country is wiping all of student debt, but wiping 20 per cent off it is a good start and a step in the right direction, so legislate it. Legislate it this week.</para>
<para>By moving an amendment, we'll give you the opportunity to legislate your own position. What are you going to do? Are you going to vote with us in favour of your own position, or are you going to vote against it and, I confidently predict, line up with the opposition, in opposition to your own policy? What we're going to see—mark my words, folks—is a Labor Party voting against its own position, because it doesn't want to legislate this now. This has never been about doing the right thing; it has only ever been about appearing to do the right thing. Pressured by the community, pressured by the Australian Greens, the Labor Party has taken a classic Labor position: take the bare minimum, and then don't actually do it; just do something that makes it look like you're doing it, and tie it to an election outcome. It's classic Australian Labor Party—all about Labor, not about the people in our community.</para>
<para>Well, the Greens are here to fight for people in our community, and that is why we are intending to serve up Labor's policy to the Australian Labor Party this week. That is why we are going to move amendments to this bill that would legislate Labor's position of wiping 20 per cent off student debt on 1 July next year. That's what this Senate should vote for. We're going to give the Senate an opportunity to vote for that. We call on Labor to join us to legislate the position that they themselves have taken and to do the right thing for people who are getting smashed by excessive levels of student debt. We should wipe student debt. It should be dead, buried and cremated in this country. If the Labor Party won't do that, we're going to offer them the opportunity to legislate their own policy, and we demand the Labor Party join with us and provide much-needed relief.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:00</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ROBERTS</name>
    <name.id>266524</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I speak on the Universities Accord (Student Support and Other Measures) Bill 2024. The university degree system is failing our students and our country. Schoolies is happening right now on the Gold Coast and across the country. These school leavers are too busy celebrating finishing high school to be listening to this speech, yet maybe their parents will be listening. To schoolies I say: this is the last break some of you will have before heading to university. Enjoy it. Be warned: universities do not have your best interests at heart. Today, they act like a greedy corporate business, and you're their cash cow. For people heading to uni, please be aware that you're taking on a very big HECS debt. That debt is meant to be in return for something. Uni is meant to give a good qualification that students can turn into a sound career. For many people, though, universities aren't doing this anymore. Instead, unis are loading up school leavers with millions in debt for degrees that aren't worth the paper they're printed on.</para>
<para>Many people watching might wonder how they're getting away with this. If a uni doesn't give you a degree that can enable you to earn money and you can't pay back the debt, then the unis should go broke, right? HECS is completely different. The uni gets the money upfront from the government—from the taxpayers. Then you owe HECS to the government, seemingly forever for some students. The uni gives you a degree that doesn't live up to its promises and immediately laughs all the way to the bank while you're stuck paying HECS debt to the Albanese Labor government. The universities' lust for money shows up in the data. In 2005-06, an average person with a HECS debt owed $10,400. Today, the average debt is an astonishing $27,600. That's nearly triple in a bit under 20 years.</para>
<para>The entire system needs a fundamental reset. One Nation believes that the future students at schoolies right now should be given all of the information to make an informed choice about their future. This bill does not help students do that. Every university should be forced to publish the average salary of graduates from each year and degree at one year, five years and 10 years after completion as a form of accountability and quality control, putting responsibility back on the universities. This would break the university scam of treating students like cash cows to load up with debt for useless degrees. It would empower school leavers to make a choice that matches their goals based on real-world data, not leave them in the dark. This data is available. Every uni student is required to have a unique student identifier number—a USI. Everyone with a HECS debt has a tax file number. These have been going for years. It would be simple to match up tax file numbers with unique student identifiers and publish graduates' average earnings, anonymised to protect identity.</para>
<para>But the government won't do this, because universities are powerful. They earn unfathomable amounts of money with amazingly overpaid vice-chancellors at their heads—and there's the core. As the Australian Financial Review's journalist Julie Hare reports:</para>
<quote><para class="block">In 2022, Paddy Nixon, the then-vice chancellor of the University of Canberra, which was ranked equal 421st best university in the world, took home a salary package of $1,045,000—the same as Dame Louise Richardson who was running the world's best university—Oxford.</para></quote>
<para>In South Australia, Colin Stirling, boss of Flinders University—which ranked 380th in the world—took home a pay packet of $1,345,000. That's not bad, considering it was over $100,000 more than the salary of Lawrence Bacow, who was head of Harvard University! At the University of Queensland, the vice-chancellor earns over $1.2 million a year—more than double what the Prime Minister earns.</para>
<para>Despite being defined as not-for-profit and exempt from tax on revenue, these universities are making billions of dollars. In 2023 the University of Queensland generated $2.6 billion in revenue. Half of that, $1.3 billion, was spent on employee expenses, like the vice-chancellor's salary. The University of Queensland sits on a piggy bank of more than $4.1 billion in net assets alone. These universities are not simple little charities. They're huge businesses rivalling the top 10 companies on Australia's stock market. They have abused the social contract with our country and the generous guarantees that governments—taxpayers!—give them.</para>
<para>This bill would make some minor changes to the indexation of HECS debt, bringing it down over 2½ years from 16 per cent to 11.1 per cent. But it only tinkers around the edges. This bill does nothing to address the fact that the average HECS debt has tripled in two decades. It does nothing to make sure that it's worthwhile getting into debt for a degree. It does nothing to address the fact that many people going to university would be better off getting a trade qualification. It does nothing to address universities using prerecorded lectures, sometimes more than three years old, and playing them back once a week forever. There's no expense, just lots of revenue.</para>
<para>One Nation's plan for HECS debt and universities would fix all the things this bill does not fix—all the things that this bill neglects. Inflation is compounding in a way that the original architects never expected. We need to stop the pile-on and give people time to pay down their debt. To do this, One Nation would freeze HECS indexation completely for the next three years.</para>
<para>Secondly, universities must be made accountable for the degrees they're delivering and the education they're not delivering. One Nation would force universities to publish the average salaries of graduates from their degrees one year, five years and 10 years after graduation so that students know what they're signing up for. Is the debt going to be worth it?</para>
<para>Delivering degrees is getting cheaper, so course fees should be getting cheaper too. One Nation would cut the fees for subjects that use repeated, prerecorded lectures and large numbers of group assignments. Our universities should be focused on delivering a good education for Australian students first. They should be focused on students first and on delivering good education. One Nation will enforce English standards for international students so that universities aren't sacrificing Australian educations to increase profit from international students, to the detriment of Australian students. We've discussed that in the past. I've raised it.</para>
<para>Finally, having a HECS debt shouldn't mean graduates are locked out of buying a house, which they are at the moment. In combination with our people's mortgage scheme, offering five per cent fixed-rate mortgages, people with a HECS debt would be able to roll their debt into a home loan and pay it off together. Where they can't get a loan from the bank because of their HECS debt, One Nation will get HECS debtors into a stable, clean, cheap home loan.</para>
<para>Mr Andrew Norton, a professor in the practice of higher education policy noted during the inquiry into this bill:</para>
<quote><para class="block">All parts of the system—the original fees charged, the indexation arrangements, and the repayment system—need to work together in a coherent way …</para></quote>
<para>The parts of this system are not working for the country. Instead, they're working for highly paid vice-chancellors and the consultants in the education sector.</para>
<para>One Nation believes in a university system that works for the students that choose to study there and in the same type of support for people doing a trade. Until we fix the core parts of the system, the Universities Accord (Student Support and Other Measures) Bill 2024 is merely tinkering around the edges. That's all it's doing. One Nation will make the changes needed to ensure a university system to serve students and to serve our country.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:09</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BARBARA POCOCK</name>
    <name.id>BFQ</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak to the Universities Accord (Student Support and Other Measures) Bill 2024, and I associate myself with the comments of my Greens colleagues, including Senator McKim's confident prediction made just now that Labor will vote against our amendments to take action today, voting against their own policy proposition.</para>
<para>Let's be clear: this student debt relief bill is nothing more than a PR stunt and will not deliver genuine cost-of-living relief in a timely way, which Australia's students and graduates need right now. Labor uses Greens' lines about wiping student because they know it's what people want and they know we can do it, but they are really just tinkering here with indexation. The Greens are the only party with a genuine commitment to wiping student debt and making university and TAFE free. Labor want people to wait until after the election to extort young people's concerns and their cost-of-living crisis and to defer action which could be taken today.</para>
<para>This bill amends the Higher Education Support Act 2003 and other legislation to give effect to some of the Universities Accord recommendations, including changes to student debt indexation. Firstly, it retrospectively ties the student debt indexation rate to the lower of either the CPI or the WPI and provides an indexation credit to reduce the 2023 and 2024 student debt indexation rates from 7.1 per cent and 4.7 per cent to four per cent respectively. Someone with an average student debt of $26,500 will see a reduction of around $1,200 in their outstanding debt as a result. Secondly, it will allow for grants to be paid to higher education providers for a new Commonwealth prac payment.</para>
<para>Thirdly, university enabling courses will be renamed FEE-FREE Uni Ready courses, and a new Commonwealth grants scheme funding cluster will be provided for them. This funding is expected to increase the number of students enrolling in these courses by 40 per cent by 2030. Fourthly, it will require higher education providers to ensure that 40 per cent of the student services and amenities fees revenue they collect from students is provided to student led organisations. Finally, it also makes amendments to the act to allow for the merger of the University of Adelaide and the University of South Australia.</para>
<para>Some of these are positive steps, but they go nowhere near far enough in fixing the structural crisis within the tertiary education sector. The first and foremost problem is the crushing impact of student debt on too many Australians. Soaring student debt is making the cost-of-living crisis worse. It's locking people out of the housing market, causing people to delay having families and crushing the dream of going to university for too many. However, the Labor government's plan to provide student debt relief will see student debts rise by 11.5 per cent in their first term. This is simply not good enough.</para>
<para>Labor says they're wiping $3 billion in student debt, but don't fall for it. All they're doing is shaving a tiny bit of indexation off the top of a giant swelling pile of student debt. Taking $3 billion off around $80 billion is peanuts. Setting indexation to the lower of CPI or WPI is akin to rearranging very expensive deck chairs on the <inline font-style="italic">T</inline><inline font-style="italic">itanic</inline>. The WPI is usually higher than the CPI, so this change will make very little difference. In fact, in the last 25 years, the WPI has been lower than CPI indexation only four times, including 2022 and 2023.</para>
<para>Labor's little tweaks to student debt won't provide real cost-of-living relief to the millions of people struggling under the weight of ballooning debts in a cost-of-living crisis. The root of the student debt crisis remains totally untouched by this bill. People are graduating with bigger and bigger debts that grow every year and take longer and longer to pay off. This is largely due to the Morrison government's disgraceful punitive fee hikes, which Labor is backing, against the advice of their own Universities Accord panel, which says the scheme needs urgent, immediate remediation. Next year, for the first time, arts degrees will cost more than $50,000. We've got Labor to thank for that.</para>
<para>There is a simple truth here: the student debt system cannot be fixed, because student debt should not exist. Higher education, like education at every level, is an essential public good that should be free, universal and provided by the government.</para>
<para>Many of us in this place, including the Prime Minister and many in the cabinet, are beneficiaries of free higher education. I am, certainly. I was the beneficiary of a free undergraduate economics degree, a free honours year and three years of a free PhD. That's seven years for free. And, better than that, as a kid who came from the country, I had help with living costs. At the end of the month, my household—with my sister who was studying to be a nurse—could afford a slab of beer and, as a consequence, we were the party house. So I didn't just start with free education; I actually had a livable income, which meant I could be a student who didn't spend 30 hours a week trying to earn an income to finance my living while I was studying, and I didn't start my working life with thousands of dollars in uni debt—an average now of $26,000—and facing a cost-of-living crisis, a housing market out of control and, now, $50,000 arts degrees.</para>
<para>Well, shame on us. Shame on us as a parliament to say to the next generation or the current generation, 'You walk out of your university with thousands of dollars in debt around your neck, into a housing market that's impossible to meet, with insecure jobs in too many of our industries.' We are a wealthy country. Why are those of previous generations who enjoyed free uni education passing on an obscenely expensive set of debts that will hobble future generations, hobble productivity and hobble our economy? It's all wrong and, in this wealthy country, we can and should be doing better.</para>
<para>Then there is the problem of placement poverty. We've got a widespread issue of poverty for those who must do placements within their qualifications. Hundreds of thousands of students are required to complete work placements as part of their study, many of which are unpaid. Work placements are especially common in feminised fields of study, which further entrenches gender inequality. A teaching bachelor degree mandates four months of unpaid full-time hours to qualify. Nursing takes five months and social work more than six months.</para>
<para>This bill creates the power for grants to be paid to higher education providers for a new Commonwealth prac payment but provides zero detail as to the payment and how it will work. The detail of the payments will come in disallowable regulations, meaning that it'll be up to the minister to decide the eligibility criteria and the payment level. There is no guarantee that any student will actually receive it, and that's totally unacceptable. We need that detail now. According to the government's announcement, the payments intended for eligible teaching, nursing and social work will be at a rate of $319.50 a week, or $8 an hour for anyone doing a full-time placement. This amount is woefully low. And so many will miss out—dentistry students, vet students, physio students, psychology students and medical students, for example.</para>
<para>During this cost-of-living crisis, unpaid placements are forcing students to choose between putting fuel in their car to get to their placement and putting food on the table every day. Mandatory unpaid placements are causing students to forgo paid work or drop out of uni, and this is taking an intense toll on students' wellbeing and their health. Students are being pushed to the limit, going months without a day off, finishing their placements at 5 pm and going straight off to paid shifts at the pub or grocery store. Students are being burnt out before they even begin their careers and are left with absolutely no time to have a social life, enjoy their youth or enjoy all of the activities, excitement and expansion of being in a university environment.</para>
<para>How on earth are students expected to live when they have to give up hundreds of hours of paid employment to do unpaid work placements? How on earth are students expected to support themselves for weeks or months just living off their savings—if they have them, of course—during a time when the cost of living is soaring and we're seeing huge increases in rents across the country? This is pure exploitation. Students should not be forced to provide their labour for free, and they definitely should not be forced to juggle work and placement both at the same time just to scrape by.</para>
<para>Students experiencing placement poverty need urgent relief. Labor has said that this policy will only commence on 1 July 2025. What are people supposed to do until then, and what about all of those who are left out? Every student should be paid for every hour of work they're required to do as part of their degree, and yet government is excluding so many, including those vet students who undertake a mandatory 52 weeks of unpaid placement to complete their vet qualifications. Students should be paid at least a minimum wage for their work on placement, not a lesser supplementary amount.</para>
<para>This bill also adds the new Adelaide University as a table A provider and removes the University of South Australia and the University of Adelaide from the list following their merger, in view of the expected commencement of Adelaide University in 2026. The Greens have previously expressed concern about this merger. University mergers can result in negative outcomes, including things like program restructures and elimination, staff lay-offs, course cuts, decreased competition and reduced student satisfaction. The Greens share the concerns of the National Tertiary Education Union and the anxieties that staff have expressed around this specific merger. A June 2023 NTEU survey of 1,100 university staff found that only 25 per cent supported the establishment of the new university. Many are feeling concern. Additionally, 75 per cent indicated that they had not been appropriately consulted by the South Australian government. Some uni students and staff found out about this plan via the <inline font-style="italic">Advertiser</inline>, not through consultation. This is not good enough.</para>
<para>The South Australian Greens did not support the Adelaide University Bill in the state legislative council. They did, however, move 23 amendments to try to secure better outcomes for staff and students. These amendments included requiring the uni to be an exemplary employer, various transparency measures and a requirement to divest the new university of fossil fuel and its assets in the defence industry. Sadly, only one of those amendments passed. These contracts—and some of them were with Deloitte and other big consulting firms—have not been made available and transparent to the South Australian public. They should be. We want the university merger to publicly reveal those details and to be clear about the business case. The Greens will always stand for robust universities and for accountability and transparency. We wish the university staff and students well as they transition through this phase.</para>
<para>Overall, while this bill in all its parts makes some positive changes, the entrenched issues within our tertiary sector require urgent, widespread and structural reforms. We call on the government to wipe all student debt, to make university and TAFE free and to pay all students doing mandatory placements no less than the minimum wage. We have relentlessly pushed the Albanese government to deliver desperately needed student debt relief since they came to power. This pressure has worked. It's worked in securing changes to indexation, as well as recent commitments to raise the minimum repayment income and to cut student debt by 20 per cent—but after the election, in Labor's notion. There is no reason to wait. Student debt relief shouldn't be dangled like a carrot on a stick and held ransom to the next election results. We can act now. We have the numbers in this parliament to lock in these changes now. Labor could move a bill to do it right now.</para>
<para>The Greens are going to keep up the pressure through amendments and changes in this bill to wipe all student debt. We want to see TAFE and uni free. We want to work with Labor to deliver the changes, like wiping all student debt and making TAFE and uni free, that will make life better for millions of people so that the next generation, the current people coming through our universities and those who have gone through university in recent times can enjoy the same opportunities and the same benefits of higher education that I did, that the Prime Minister did and that so many in this place and in the parliament enjoyed. The next generation should have the same privilege.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:24</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATERS</name>
    <name.id>192970</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak to the Universities Accord (Student Support and Other Measures) Bill 2024. I would like to associate myself with the comments of my colleagues and, in particular, of our spokesperson on higher education, Senator Mehreen Faruqi.</para>
<para>Now, don't be confused—and this is to the students up there watching this—this isn't the bill that would make some, not all, TAFE places free. Nor is this the bill that would reduce student debt by 20 per cent. I note, of course, that that's not 100 per cent; it's only 20 per cent. This is a bill with some tweaks. Sure, they're welcome tweaks, but 'tweaks' is perhaps a generous description. It's a bill that tweaks the rate of indexation on student debt. So this will make an impossibly awful situation ever so slightly less awful for uni graduates who are graduating with debts that perhaps have been unmatched in history so far. This is a step in the right direction, but it's the tiniest possible step that anyone could possibly take. Once again, we see our hearts being broken by this government, who gave us such great hopes for real reform to tackle the issues that people are facing. Student debt is one of those key issues in a cost-of-living crisis, and not deterring people from further study is something that should be top of the list for any government. So, unfortunately, we see that we have the tiniest possible change to this area of policy, which really merits broader and deeper reform to actually help people.</para>
<para>I remain baffled at why this government lacks the courage to enact the changes that people deserve and that, frankly, I think it was elected to deliver on. I don't understand where the breakdown in communication is between students, who are facing the biggest amounts that they've ever had to pay for higher education, whether that's TAFE or uni, and the government, who think, 'We're just going to make some tweaks to the inflation rate of that debt.' If these changes are made—and the Greens will support them being made—student debt will still have increased by 11½ per cent under this government's watch. Where's the bill to cancel student debt completely?</para>
<para>We've said, 'Of course we will back in your proposal for these indexation tweaks and we'll back in your proposal for a 20 per cent reduction of student debt.' But it's not enough, folks. I'm sure that 20 per cent will be welcome, but that compound interest is killing students. I want to flag that I had to pay for my education. I wasn't like some of the others in this chamber and the other place who got their university education for free. It took me getting elected to the Senate to pay off my student debt for my environmental science degree and my law degree at Griffith University in Meanjin/Brisbane. Get yourself elected so you can pay off your HECS debt—that's hardly a policy solution that will apply to everyone, is it? Of course, we need more ordinary people elected to this place. But it took me that long to pay off my HECS debt and half of a drama degree that I'd done prior to that. The compound interest was already making my debt worse, and the situation has only gotten worse in the meantime.</para>
<para>We see degrees that are now costing more than they ever did. Compound interest and inflation are turbocharging those debts, and now we have a timid government that's dangling the tiniest of fixes to that situation, making some slight reductions to the indexation rate, which we will support. But it's just not what students actually need. We want to see student debt cancelled. I remember, when I was still at uni, I was having a discussion about how much our degrees cost, and I said: 'It's alright. The Greens will be in government one day, and they'll just cancel my student debt.' Perhaps I was needing to be a little bit more patient. But here we are, with the potential to make some changes, and, once again, the government are choosing to make absolutely the most miniscule amount of reform that they possibly can.</para>
<para>I would urge the government to listen to the real pleas and needs of students, who deserve to be able to go to uni without crippling debt, should have their existing debt cancelled and should be able to get their degrees for free. Free university, free TAFE and cancelling student debt was one of the amazing reforms of the Whitlam government that this Labor government should be proud of and should be trying to get us back to. We could have these things. You have the numbers to pass those reforms. We beg you, we invite you and we urge you to do those things. We will vote for them. We will back those in. We've been pushing for these reforms for decades. You're in government. You've got the chance to do that, and you've got the numbers to get it through. Why are you so timid? Why are you so disappointingly beige in actually tackling the issues that students are facing?</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0T</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>It being 1.30 pm, I interrupt the debate to call on two-minute statements.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>STATEMENTS BY SENATORS</title>
        <page.no>4685</page.no>
        <type>STATEMENTS BY SENATORS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Live Animal Exports: Sheep</title>
          <page.no>4685</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:30</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'SULLIVAN</name>
    <name.id>283585</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>In 1891, an event known as the great shearers' strike played a pivotal role in the formation of Australia's oldest political party. Widely regarded as one of Australia's earliest and most significant industrial disputes, it was one of the key factors in the establishment of a political party that represented the hardworking Australian, advocating for better working conditions. However, that party is almost unrecognisable today. Reflecting a shift in activist pressures and the electoral threat posed by far-left parties such as the Greens, the modern-day Labor Party has made clear its prioritisation of urban, left-leaning agendas over the economic and social realities affecting rural Australia.</para>
<para>Nowhere is this clearer than in the Labor Party's decision to ban live sheep exports by 2028. There are implications for rural communities, particularly in my home state of Western Australia. It will have dire consequences for our farmers and country towns. As a result, Western Australian farmers have already started downsizing operations, including reducing lamb numbers and, ironically, using euthanasia to maintain healthy herd sizes, or leaving the industry altogether.</para>
<para>With rigid regulations, Australia is a world leader in animal welfare standards. Reducing animal mortality is in both the buyer's and the seller's best interests. The ban will only increase demand for live exports from other countries with standards much lower than those in Australia. It threatens not only Australia's sheep and wool industries but also livelihoods and communities. Far beyond the immediate loss of export income, local industries, schools, clubs and individuals will be affected.</para>
<para>With both state and federal elections on the horizon, Labor has clearly alienated its voter base.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Mansfield Autism Statewide Services</title>
          <page.no>4685</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:32</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DARMANIN</name>
    <name.id>301128</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>In October, with Simone Reeves, Director of Mansfield Autism Statewide Services, and the talented staff and families of children with autism, I celebrated the opening of the Mansfield Autism's Operation Gamechanger retreat in my home state of Victoria. This $12.75 million project, for which the Albanese government provided $3.8 million in funding, is more than an expansion of the great work that Mansfield Autism are already doing. It will be a life changer for families navigating both the challenges and the impacts of autism.</para>
<para>The retreat offers incredible respite services, family camps, farm stays and individual programs to build life skills and independence. The newly opened retreat is a place where families can recharge, reconnect and access the support they need for their children to thrive, and what I learnt from my visit was that the support of families, including siblings, is vital. By building capacity and confidence in both children and their families, this project delivers best-practice services that will create lasting impacts. For families like Penny's, whom I had the privilege of meeting, who moved to Mansfield to be closer to the support they need, this truly is a game changer.</para>
<para>None of this would've been possible without the passion and dedication of those who envisaged and brought this project to life. To everyone involved, congratulations and thank you for your unwavering commitment to this project. To Dani, another one of the parents, thank you for sharing your beautiful poem about your 11-year-old boy. May Operation Gamechanger be something that enables many more families to be illuminated and lit up by their family members with autism. Congratulations. You should be so proud of your achievement, and I am pleased to have participated in just a very small part of that.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Macquarie Harbour</title>
          <page.no>4686</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:34</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WHISH-WILSON</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Last week, Prime Minister Anthony Albanese flew into Tasmania to launch Labor's new candidate for the seat of Braddon, Senator Urquhart. I don't have a problem with Senator Urquhart leaving the Senate and running for the lower house. In fact, I wish her all the best. What I do have a problem with is the Prime Minister making a commitment of $28 million of taxpayers' money to the salmon industry in Tasmania. Of that money, $22 million is for an oxygenation project. They're going to turn Macquarie Harbour, the last known home of the critically endangered maugean skate, into a giant, aerated fish tank. This harbour on the edge of a World Heritage area, this harbour that is precious to Tasmania, is going to receive taxpayers' funds. Why? The skate is going extinct. We've been told that by scientists. We've been told that the best thing the government can do to stop this skate going extinct—there are believed to be between 40 and 120 adults left in the wild—is to move salmon farms out of Macquarie Harbour.</para>
<para>But here's the rub, senators: at the moment, the federal government has committed $7.2 million to working with the salmon industry for a trial pilot project in Macquarie Harbour, which doesn't finish until October next year—one year away. It's been going for 11 months, so we're halfway through the trial project, and the Prime Minister comes in and commits six times the amount of taxpayer funds to this project when it hasn't even finished. We don't know the results of this scientific project. Even worse, this money is being given to big multinational salmon companies—foreign owned companies who pay no tax—to clean up their own mess, to greenwash the extinction of species. It is simply not good enough. The Greens will fight this, and Tasmanians will vote against this.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Cost of Living</title>
          <page.no>4686</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:36</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator REYNOLDS</name>
    <name.id>250216</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Under the Labor Albanese government, I am hearing over and over and over again that our country is clearly heading in the wrong direction. Whether I'm talking to locals at the supermarket in Ellenbrook with David Goode or visiting cafes along the northern coastal suburbs in Perth with Jan Norberger, or even when I'm chatting with locals at pharmacies in Forrestfield and High Wycombe with Matt Moran, the feedback is the same: the cost-of-living crisis is hurting, and it is hurting Australians badly. In particular, I'm hearing that again and again right across these suburbs and right across Perth.</para>
<para>The tragedy of it is that this has deliberately been implemented by the Labor Party. They have pump-primed an additional $315 billion across their three failed budgets. Anybody knows that, when you pump-prime the economy like that, you cause inflation to rise, which then causes interest rates to rise, and so it goes on and on. I think even John Maynard Keynes, the great pump-priming economist, would think that those opposite have gone too far. Western Australians have suffered 12 interest rate rises under those opposite. For anybody, particularly those on low incomes, trying to rent a house in Perth is almost impossible, and that is a direct consequence of what those opposite have done.</para>
<para>While interest rates are starting to fall in many other nations or have fallen significantly, as they have in New Zealand, Canada, the United States and Great Britain, there is no sign whatsoever of relief for households in Australia. When you combine the rapidly falling household disposable income with severe housing costs and the government's disastrous immigration policy—flooding Australia when we don't have homes—all of this is the result of—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0T</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Smith.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Respiratory Syncytial Virus</title>
          <page.no>4686</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:38</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator MARIELLE SMITH</name>
    <name.id>281603</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Any parent in Australia will know how dangerous and scary RSV can be. It's the leading cause of hospitalisation for infants in Australia. There is absolutely nothing worse than bringing your precious newborn child home, only to have to rush back to hospital weeks or months later because they are so unwell, unable to feed or struggling to breathe. For many Australian families, this experience is all too familiar. I know that when my son had RSV it was one of the scariest moments of motherhood for me. RSV puts 12,000 infants in hospital every year, and nearly a quarter of those babies need intensive care. It's the leading reason young children under five are hospitalised each year.</para>
<para>That's why I am extraordinarily proud of our government's commitment of $174 million into the world's most comprehensive RSV vaccination and protection program for infants. Pregnant women will have access free of charge to a vaccine from the third trimester. It is expected to prevent some 10,000 hospitalisations every year. That's 10,000 Australian families who won't have to go through the trauma and anxiety of watching their babies, watching their little ones, struggle to breathe and struggle with RSV—not to mention the impact it will have on our hospital system, which, during peak season in winter, is often overburdened by the cases of RSV. Without this initiative, families would need to pay $300 for this vaccine. In a cost-of-living pressured environment, that is something that many families simply cannot afford.</para>
<para>This is an extraordinary announcement, one which will keep our littlest Australians out of hospital, one which will protect Australian families from going through that pain and anxiousness when their little one has RSV. It's a tremendous announcement and I commend the health minister for his efforts.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Renewable Energy</title>
          <page.no>4687</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:40</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ROBERTS</name>
    <name.id>266524</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The net zero transition is not driven in accordance with science and commonsense, nor is it the truth. Its ideologically driven and uses cherry-picked numbers. It cancels academics who disagree with it, enabling a parasitic and a dishonest solar and wind lobby to transfer hundreds of billion dollars from everyday Australians into the lobbyists' pockets. Meanwhile, communist China pretends it is inviting net zero while expanding coal-fired power plants, growing wealth on the back of cheap power. This is taking investment, investment and wealth from everyday Australians. Net zero will cost Australia to 2050 around $1.5 trillion, after which the parasites will continue the process of replacing short-lived weather-dependent generation.</para>
<para>Net zero is vandalising our natural environment. The latest proposal will cover two million hectares of fragile ecosystem along the Nullarbor Plain with industrial wind and solar. There was a time when environmentalists would have thrown themselves in front of the bulldozers; now they are driving the bulldozers! Australia has had enough of this hypocrisy and obscene, dishonest devastation. A One Nation government will cancel the net zero transition and withdraw from the Paris Agreement. If people in cities want solar and wind, let them have it. We would retrofit coal-fired power stations with capture and conversion devices, turning nature's trace gas—essential to all life, carbon dioxide—into fertiliser, ethanol and AdBlue, products that will grow Australia.</para>
<para>Industrial solar and wind subsidies will be redirected to fund the removal and remediation of wind, solar and transmission lines, which is inevitable once the climate profiteers realise the jig is up and shoot through, leaving their broken monstrosities behind. One Nation will close down the department of climate change and the related web of agencies that funnel taxpayer money into a web of foreign corporations, parasitic Australian billionaires, compliant academia, government departments and agencies—dishonest government departments. One Nation offers Australia a clear choice: vote for the Liberal-Labor-Greens-teals uniparty and continue our descent into poverty, or vote One Nation and restore the economic powerhouse that Australia once was.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Taxation</title>
          <page.no>4687</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:42</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RENNICK</name>
    <name.id>283596</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise today to speak about a statement put to me by the Department of Treasury in the last set of estimates. I was told that the last time there was a double taxation agreement renegotiation with Ireland was in 1983. The reason I was shocked to hear that was because in 1983 Ireland had a tax rate of 40c; today, it has a tax rate of 12½c. A lot of things have happened in the last four decades, but one of the biggest things is that Ireland joined the EU and, as a result, got billions of dollars in subsidies, which enabled it to lower its company tax rate. As a result, multinational companies shifted en masse to Ireland to take advantage of this low tax rate of 12½ per cent.</para>
<para>I have raised a number of times in this Senate the issue of jurisdictions with a very low company tax rate. I've pointed out that, compared to Ireland, we have here in Australia a difference of 10c in our withholding tax rate, which means that many multinationals, when paying royalties to Ireland, get a 30c tax deduction, pay 10c on the way out and then pay a 12½c company tax rate. You don't need to be Einstein to work out that 10c plus 12½c is 22½c, which is 7½c lower than 30c. So, when you are shifting a billion dollars offshore to Ireland—that's what Pfizer shifted offshore in 2022—you are saving $75 million in tax just by posting a few journal entries.</para>
<para>But the sad thing is that it gets worse because, as the ATO told me, those multinationals actually get a withholding tax credit on the withholding tax paid to Ireland, so they are only paying 12½c. Multinationals that shift their profits to Ireland are now getting a 17½ per cent arbitrage on every dollar of profit they send off to Ireland. I suggest the ATO and Treasury get busy and start renegotiating their taxation arrangements.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Albanese Government</title>
          <page.no>4688</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:44</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PAYMAN</name>
    <name.id>300707</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>In legislative terms, the Albanese government is presiding over a car crash—not a little accident, like scratching someone's duco in the car park, but a full-blown repercussive catastrophe, the kind you see on CCTV footage.</para>
<para>Take a glance at the <inline font-style="italic">Notice Paper</inline> and look at the bills that sits there mangled and motionless, their hazard lights shining through the haze of smoke and explanatory memoranda. Staggering close by we can see Tanya Plibersek, jaws of life in hand, desperately trying to force open the driver's seat door of a crumpled stage 2 variant of the now discontinued nature-positive model. It's difficult to tell through the smoke, but it seems that if Minister Plibersek moves slightly in either direction she would have a much easier time getting the job done.</para>
<para>Further down the road, towards the newest addition to the carnage, we see a man sitting on the footpath, head in hands, fuel leaking out of his smouldering vehicle like cabinet discussions. 'We'd been restoring that for a year,' he mumbled. Indeed, there was still a brilliant shine on the Reserve Bank reform badge, which shimmered by the light of the dancing flames. Behind him a ghostly voice called out, 'You're all tip and no iceberg, and you'll never be Prime Minister.' The man—Jim Chalmers—bursts into tears.</para>
<para>A few cars across another man has popped open the boot of his car. He strains and struggles to force out an oversized cricket bat with 'double dissolution' written on it. Unfortunately, the compact help-to-buy model is unambitious and doesn't have much space in the back. Over his shoulder, the man sees a brand-new monstrosity hurtling down the road. Broadly drafted without any public consultation, it's a silver misinformation sedan.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Climate Change</title>
          <page.no>4688</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:46</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATERS</name>
    <name.id>192970</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>We are in a climate emergency. It threatens the safety of people, our health, our wildlife, our water, our ability to grow food and the air that we breathe. In the Pacific, girls are experiencing the most severe impacts of the climate crisis daily. New research from Plan International Australia and Kiribati Climate Action Network paints a stark picture of this. Fifty per cent of Pacific girls surveyed as part of the research said that the climate crisis has stopped them from going to school. Elenoa, a 12-year-old girl living in rural Fiji says:</para>
<quote><para class="block">I walk 5km every morning to catch my school bus, during bad weather conditions. The road from my home to school is very poor. The culvert and bridges are very low and not in good condition, putting me at risk when travelling.'</para></quote>
<para>More than 25 per cent said there's not enough food and 19 per cent said that they feel hungry as a result of this crisis. Unaisi, a 10-year-old girl also living in rural Fiji, says:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The sea is being polluted and turtles are trying to find their way out to breathe and look for shelter. It's really affecting me and my family because this is where we always get our food from. It's too risky for me and my family to fish now.</para></quote>
<para>The Greens support these young girls and their calls for governments to do more. It is the duty of every government, Australia included, to support communities facing the irreversible impacts of climate change. If we have any hope of achieving a safe climate, we must reach net zero by 2035—it would be nice if we actually knew what the government's target was going to be—we must transition to 100 per cent renewables as quickly as possible and we must commit to no more coal, oil and gas.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Youth Voice in Parliament</title>
          <page.no>4688</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:48</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHARMA</name>
    <name.id>274506</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to give a speech on behalf of one of the candidates in Raise our Voice Australia's Youth Voice in Parliament campaign. It ran in this chamber from 7 to 10 of October, but Senate business prevented the giving of the speech during that week. Ninety MPs and senators have participated in this year's campaign. It's an important campaign that gives young Australians the opportunity to write a speech and have it read out by their representative in parliament.</para>
<para>My remarks today are read on behalf of Esther. Esther writes:</para>
<quote><para class="block">I dream of an Australia where all households can afford to live comfortably. Where the "forgotten" middle-income families can provide for their children, afford to pay their bills and aspire to achieve the great Australian dream of owning a home.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I dream of an Australia, whose government supports a strong small business sector, where SMEs, the backbone of the Australian economy, thrive, and where the media landscape is able to report on business success rather than industry collapse.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">However, this dream is feeling increasingly out of reach. According to data …, the risk of small business failure rose by 20% in the year to March 2024. This is a national tragedy worthy of criticism and I fear that this risk is only being furthered by recent government investment—</para></quote>
<para>Esther goes on:</para>
<quote><para class="block">It is for this reason that I speak on behalf of the small businesses and households struggling to pay their bills and call upon the next Australian parliament to lift the statutory ban on nuclear power. With this ban, Australia is only falling further behind other G20 countries, all of which are pursuing a nuclear energy future. It is my dream that the coming decade will see government investment in nuclear energy—a clean, efficient, baseload power supply that would provide reliable low-cost energy to all Australian households and businesses.</para></quote>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Carers</title>
          <page.no>4689</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:50</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator TYRRELL</name>
    <name.id>300639</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>When parents can't care for their children, grandparents, aunts, uncles or even family members often step up to provide a safe and secure place for these children. I have met with kinship carers, and what they do is incredible. Something else incredible is that so many of these carers do it without any extra financial support. I have been working on a solution for this along with colleagues here and in the other place, through the Parliamentary Friends of Grandparent and Kinship Carers group. We recognise kinship care is an issue where political colours are not relevant.</para>
<para>One simple solution is a stat dec that can be used whenever these people need to prove their carer status—like Medicare, school administration or times when the child needs permission for an extracurricular activity. But we can do more. We have been looking at tweaking the legislation to recognise and define kinship care. Earlier this month, a constituent came into my office to tell me there were newborns who were about to be put into foster care but the carers were not able to claim parental leave because the newborns were not their biological children. We all know a newborn needs a different level of care to an older child, so when the carers took leave from their jobs, they had to appeal to their employers to help them out. The employers were able to give them some extra leave, but not the same level most new parents could access.</para>
<para>This situation highlights a gap in our foster care system. It also shows even bigger gaps when it comes to the rights of kinship carers. Foster carers can access childcare subsidies and income support, but what about kinship carers? They are doing the same thing as foster carers, so why can't they be recognised for that? Kinship care is hard and rewarding, and we need to support these people for stepping up and caring, not penalise them.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Parliamentary Standards</title>
          <page.no>4689</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:52</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator THORPE</name>
    <name.id>280304</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>This morning Labor and the Libs teamed up to pass a shameful censure motion against truth-telling. I tell you right now that I wear the censure motion as a badge of honour, because the protest against the colonising king was exactly what I wanted to do, and that was to bring the whole world's attention to the plight of my people in this country. There have been 600 deaths in custody—you don't care. This government don't care. That government didn't care. There are 24,000 Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander children in out-of-home care. None of this mob care. Suicide rates—they don't care. Incarceration rates—they don't care. Destruction of country and water—they don't care. So I will continue to call out the king coloniser and any supporter that wants to shut me down for speaking truth to power.</para>
<para>The international solidarity has been incredible—thousands and thousands of people reaching out, even the so-called insignificant old white man who rang me this morning and said, 'It is just ridiculous what they are doing to you, Senator Thorpe.' This is about justice. This is about an ongoing genocide that everyone in here who makes the decisions and who sets the racist policy that we have to live under is complicit in. I have created a whirlwind internationally. Shame on this colony for continuing this sophistication of genocide against my people! I will continue to do it, and I will stand in solidarity with every other Indigenous people around the globe.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator Thorpe. Your time has expired.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Thorpe</name>
    <name.id>280304</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>So fuck the colony!</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Thorpe!</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Thorpe</name>
    <name.id>280304</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I withdraw.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Greater South East Irrigation Scheme</title>
          <page.no>4689</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:54</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CHANDLER</name>
    <name.id>264449</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Last week there was great news for farmers and producers in Tasmania's Coal River Valley, with the coalition securing the funding for the critical Greater South East Irrigation Scheme. Farmers and growers were in shock earlier this year when the Albanese government refused to fund this game-changing project in the budget. Mr Dutton and the Liberal candidate for Lyons, Susie Bower, stepped in to announce that the coalition will commit to providing $150 million in federal funding, matching $150 million from the Tasmanian state government and farmers.</para>
<para>After refusing to fund it in the budget and sitting on the business case for more than 10 months, Labor followed suit and matched the coalition's pledge just 48 hours after its commitment. That's good news for the hardworking farmers in one of Tasmania's driest regions, who, without this scheme, would be facing a huge price rise for water which would make many farms uneconomic. After we had listened to the business case, looked at its strength and agreed to support this project, it took the commitment of the coalition and the advocacy of our candidate, Susie Bower, to guarantee that it will now go ahead.</para>
<para>The Coal River Valley is already home to some of Tasmania's and Australia's finest producers of wine, fruit and high-value products. By supporting this scheme, we, together with the Tasmanian Liberal government, will ensure that these and many new producers can send their amazing products around our country and the world, creating jobs and huge investment in Tasmania. Well done to Lyons Liberal candidate Susie Bower, TasFarmers, the Coal River Products Association and all of the producers in the region for successfully advocating for this vital investment.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Vocational Education and Training</title>
          <page.no>4690</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:56</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator POLLEY</name>
    <name.id>e5x</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>To concur with my colleague there, I'd just like to say how pleased we are that we've got Rebecca White as our candidate in Lyons. She will win that seat and deliver for Lyons.</para>
<para>I want to speak today about the success of this government's investment in fee-free TAFE. I cannot underestimate how valuable it is to my community, my home state of Tasmania, that over 6,000 Tasmanians have been studying a vocational course since the Albanese Labor government implemented this life-changing policy. Fee-free TAFE delivers a coordinated response to workforce shortages in industries of local and national priority, helping to build the pipeline of skilled workers that the community requires and that we need going forward.</para>
<para>I'm so proud to be a senator in this Labor government, which is committed to investing in Tasmanians and saving them thousands of dollars in fees and course costs. Fee-free TAFE has allowed Tasmanians to study a subject in which they will gain the skills that are in short supply, and it will give them a secure job when they graduate. All of this will lead to greater benefits for our local economy. The Albanese government remains committed to implementing policies which create opportunities for Tasmanians to succeed and for sectors to thrive. Getting an education, getting a job and having a secure future is what drives us as a Labor government in this place and the other place every day. Tasmanians will benefit from this, and TAFE is benefitting from it.</para>
<para>Those opposite gutted TAFE when they took $3 billion out of it. That's what they did when they were in government.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Cost of Living</title>
          <page.no>4690</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:58</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator AYRES</name>
    <name.id>16913</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I was told that they couldn't find a Liberal to finish the last two minutes. It's the Liberal and National parties running out of puff again. They couldn't find a speaker to fill the gap, so I'm happy to help by filling in a little bit of time, and I hope that it's an opportunity for a moment of self-reflection over there.</para>
<para>I thought I'd take the minute that remains to me to remind the team over here that the Albanese government is engaged in real, practical action on the cost of living. It's acting on taxes by giving tax cuts to every single working Australian. It's acting by putting downward pressure on prices for electricity. It's supporting working families. Childcare costs are down because of the Albanese government. We've had two budget surpluses in a row and downward pressure on inflation.</para>
<para>The alternative approach from this lot is to leave working Australians on their own to face rising costs and rising interest rates, They gave us $300 billion worth of cuts to services for veterans, $300 billion worth of cuts to health care and $300 billion worth of cuts to the services offered to senior Australians. That is the hard, austere, angry, arrogant approach that symbolises what Mr Dutton and Mr Taylor have in store for ordinary Australians.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>STATEMENT BY THE PRESIDENT</title>
        <page.no>4690</page.no>
        <type>STATEMENT BY THE PRESIDENT</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Australian Constitution: Parliamentarians' Oath or Affirmation of Allegiance</title>
          <page.no>4690</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:00</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I indicated this morning that I would make a statement to the chamber. I intend to do that now. I was asked by the Leader of the Opposition in the Senate, Senator Birmingham, to make a statement to the chamber on the constitutional requirements for senators to make and subscribe an oath or affirmation of allegiance. I sought the advice of the Clerk when this matter first arose. My statement today will echo the response given when this matter was examined at the finance and public administration estimates hearing last month.</para>
<para>Senators make and subscribe the oath or affirmation by reading aloud the prescribed words, which are provided to each senator on a card for their convenience, and by further signing the <inline font-style="italic">Test Roll</inline> in the column containing the relevant text. As President, when administering the oath or affirmation, I countersign the <inline font-style="italic">Test Roll</inline> to confirm the oath or affirmation was made and subscribed before me on a particular date. In doing so, I attest to its validity.</para>
<para>Making and subscribing the oath or affirmation is a prerequisite to senators taking their seats. It follows that the question of whether the constitutional requirement has been met must be determined by an objective assessment of the facts at the time a senator is sworn in. On 1 August 2022, by any objective assessment, Senator Thorpe made the affirmation in the form required by the Constitution and subscribed that affirmation in the<inline font-style="italic"> Test Roll. </inline>The requirement to make and subscribe the oath or affirmation is in section 42 of the Constitution. As I have mentioned, this is a prerequisite to senators taking their seats in the Senate following their election. It does not affect the eligibility of a senator to remain in office.</para>
<para>As senators will appreciate, the subsequent adherence to the oath or affirmation of allegiance does not forgo the qualification or the disqualification of senators. The only grounds for this are those set out at sections 44 and 45 of the Constitution. Senators will be aware that this and related matters have been referred to the Procedures Committee. I advised Senator Thorpe that I was also making this statement. I thank the Senate.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE</title>
        <page.no>4691</page.no>
        <type>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Cost of Living</title>
          <page.no>4691</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:02</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HUME</name>
    <name.id>266499</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Prime Minister, Senator Wong. The cost-of-living committee held more than 20 hearings across Australia. It received more than 1,500 submissions and responses to the community survey throughout its inquiry into the cost-of-living crisis. The overwhelming evidence is that Australians are poorer than they were 2½ years ago and we are in a national cost-of-living crisis. Will the government adopt the cost-of-living committee's recommendation to convene the National Cabinet to address the excessive government spending that is keeping interest rates higher for longer?</para>
<para>Honourable senators interjecting—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! Order across the chamber. Senator Wong.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:03</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thanks to Senator Hume for the question. She would know that the government doesn't require a Senate committee to understand the extent of the cost-of-living challenges facing Australians. In fact, the Minister for Finance, the Treasurer, the Minister for Health and Aged Care, all cabinet ministers and the Prime Minister, first and foremost, have been focused on what it is that we could do as a government to assist Australians when it comes to the cost of living. That's why you have seen, under this government, more people in jobs—more people earning more and keeping more of what they earn with our tax plan. I would remind those opposite that we have seen more than a million jobs created. We have seen a near-record number of women in jobs and women working full time. We have seen real wages grow more in the past 12 months alone than they did in the entire decade of the former coalition government.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>We have the smallest gender pay gap on record and, of course, the cost-of-living measures that the government has put in place in order to make a contribution to the challenges Australian families are facing: bigger tax cuts for every working Australian, cheaper child care, energy rebates, student debt relief, free TAFE, more bulk-billed GP appointments, cheaper medicines, the largest increase to rent assistance in 30 years and the largest investment in social and affordable housing in more than a decade, as well as a fair go at the checkout and a crackdown on dodgy deals and tackling excessive surcharges on cards.</para>
<para>And, of course, what I'd be interested in is whether Senator Hume brought forward to that committee the evidence of what it would be like if she and her colleagues had had it their way, because we know that Australians would be paying higher taxes. We know— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Cash, if you withdraw those interjections you made earlier in relation to Senator Wong about—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Cash, we're not here to—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Cash</name>
    <name.id>I0M</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I withdraw.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you. Senator Hume, first supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:05</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HUME</name>
    <name.id>266499</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The committee's final report found that Labor's antiproductivity red-tape agenda is contributing to the cost-of-living crisis, driving up costs for small businesses and prices for consumers. Will your government adopt the cost-of-living committee's recommendation to convene the National Cabinet to develop productivity-enhancing reforms to the economy, including establishing a national deregulation agenda?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:06</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Well, Senator Hume, I think the difficulty with you putting a proposition to us and to the Australian people that somehow you would have a different outcome on cost of living is that you really ask people to ignore the fact that you have voted against all of the government's cost-of-living measures. I know you want to try and shift the conversation, because you now want another committee—you want to have a discussion about what we do. But when you were tested, Senator, you and your colleagues made very clear that, actually, the cost of living was not your priority. There is no other way to explain the way in which you voted in this chamber.</para>
<para>Now, you might be desperate to come up with an agenda where you can say to Australians: 'Look, we're going to have this committee and it's going to talk about this, and we're going to do all of these things, but please forget about the fact we voted against energy price relief, please forget about the fact that we voted against cheaper medicines and please forget about the fact that we don't actually think your wages should—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Minister. Senator Hume, second supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:07</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HUME</name>
    <name.id>266499</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Australia is in a cost-of-living crisis that requires an immediate response to get core inflation sustainably under control, as the RBA says it requires. You've had 2½ years. How can it be that this government is already out of ideas on how to sustainably lower inflation and fight the cost of living for all Australians, that don't simply involve spending more money or creating more red tape?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:08</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I would just remind those opposite—I'll just make a few points. We know that we have seen inflation increase over a period of time, prior to us coming to office, and we know that this government has had to try and work to bring down inflation. I would make the point that, when we came to office, inflation was higher and rising, and now it is lower and falling. I would make the point that inflation was 6.1 per cent at the time of the election and is now 2.8 per cent. It is less than half of what we inherited and about a third of its peak.</para>
<para>Now, you are right, Senator: inflation remains a key challenge, and one that this government is focused on. You are wrong in pointing to your own record as one that is anything to be proud of.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Economy</title>
          <page.no>4692</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:09</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WALSH</name>
    <name.id>252157</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Prime Minister, Senator Wong. How has the Albanese Labor government worked to help Australians during the worldwide inflation surge? How is the government cleaning up the mess left by the Liberals' and Nationals' reckless budget management and failure to plan for the future? What cost-of-living measures has the government introduced to support Australians? How is the government supporting Australians in other ways, including promoting higher wages and stronger rights for workers and bringing costs down for households?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:09</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My thanks go to Senator Walsh for that question. I might start by making a point about jobs and wages. As I said in response to Senator Hume, we've seen, since we were elected, more than a million jobs created. It's the first time any government has seen the creation of a million new jobs in a parliamentary term. We've seen a near-record number of women in jobs and the smallest gender pay gap on record. We've seen real wages grow more in the past 12 months alone than they did during the entire decade of the former coalition government. So real wages are growing under us—under them, not so much. In fact, we all remember Senator Cormann and the inside voice that came out when he talked about what the coalition's real plan was—that is, lower wages are a deliberate design feature of their economic plan.</para>
<para>In terms of inflation, we absolutely understand the challenge inflation places on an economy, on families and on people. That is why we have worked hard through the budget process not only to put downward pressure on inflation but also to deliver cost-of-living relief. I would again make this point: inflation is at much less than half of what we inherited and around a third of its peak.</para>
<para>Senator Walsh also talked about cost-of-living support. She's part of a government that has delivered bigger tax cuts for Australians—a tax cut for every Australian worker. Senator Walsh knows a lot about early childhood education and the people who work in that sector. Senator Walsh knows, Labor senators know and workers know that we are delivering increases for childcare educators at the same time as we are delivering cheaper child care. We have delivered energy rebates. People will remember in this chamber those opposite voting against energy price relief for Australian families. Fee-free TAFE and more bulk-billed— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Walsh, first supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:11</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WALSH</name>
    <name.id>252157</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I note that, under the Albanese Labor government's careful economic management, inflation has halved. How is the government tackling inflation, getting it back to where it should be while also bringing costs down for households, improving wages and providing cost-of-living support to all Australians?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:12</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>It is true that we and the world have faced real challenges—the economic aftershocks of the pandemic and the ongoing effects of conflict around the world. We've seen disrupted supply chains, shortages in critical skills and a worldwide surge in inflation and in energy prices. We in Australia have made good progress. Of course, we want to do more, but inflation has more than halved under our watch. As I said, it had a six in front of it when we came to office. Now it has a two and it is back in the target range, the target band, for the first time since 2021.</para>
<para>Importantly, what we want to see is inflation coming down, wages going back up and the gender pay gap closing. We are seeing all of those things trending in the right direction. That is a good thing for Australian workers, that is a good thing for Australian families, and it is a good thing for the economy. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Walsh, second supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:13</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WALSH</name>
    <name.id>252157</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Albanese Labor government has introduced cost-of-living relief, from tax cuts to cheaper child care and cheaper medicines. Minister, what reasons have Mr Dutton, the Liberals and the Nationals given for not supporting cost-of-living relief policies which help every single Australian?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:13</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Walsh knows that we have been working to improve the lives of Australians with cost-of-living relief, and we also all know that Mr Dutton opposed all of it. He opposed the tax cuts for Australians. He opposed every cost-of-living measure. What we know, on Medicare, is that he opposed cheaper medicines and, I assume, he will continue to oppose the extension of bulk-billing. If you really want to know what Mr Dutton is like, you only have to look at his record when he was health minister.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Ruston</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr Dutton, Mr Dutton, Mr Dutton.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>You might want to shout, but what we know is he was the worst health minister that Australia has ever seen—the health minister who wanted a GP tax, a tax on going to the GP. You're led by a man who wanted to tax people for going to the doctor, and now you want to come in here and tell us all that you're the friend of working people.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Ruston, come to order!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Give us a break.</para>
<para>Honourable senators interjecting—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Ruston, when I call your name, I expect you to come to order, not continue to yell across the chamber.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Economy</title>
          <page.no>4693</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:15</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McGRATH</name>
    <name.id>217241</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Prime Minister, Senator Wong. The recent COSBOA <inline font-style="italic">Small business perspectives report</inline>, released last month, shows the biggest pressures for small and medium enterprises are rising energy costs, the increased cost of doing business, the increased cost of goods due to inflation, and impact of rates rises on mortgage costs and rents. Minister, the Albanese Labor government promised to fix most of these concerns prior to the last election. You promised to reduce energy bills by $275 and deliver cheaper mortgages and claimed Australians would notice what a change of government would feel like in their wallet. Instead, interest rates remain at record highs, despite cuts in most comparable global economies. Inflation remains sticky. Energy bills continue to skyrocket. As a result, business insolvencies are now at record highs. Minister, will your government take responsibility for any of these broken promises?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:15</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The government always takes responsibility for ensuring we steer Australia through economic challenges, and that's what we have done. That is what we are doing. I remind Senator McGrath that, when we came to government, inflation was at 6.1 per cent and it was rising. Now it is at 2.8 per cent and it is falling. It is less than half of what we inherited and a third of its peak. That's the first point. The second point, in relation to energy price relief—as I recall, Senator McGrath, you were amongst those who voted against it. To come in here and say that small businesses are very worried about energy bill relief after you voted against providing them with energy bill relief seems a very odd political position. It's a very odd political position.</para>
<para>Small businesses are the engine room of the Australian economy, and they are at the heart of local communities across the country. They employ some five million people and contribute $500 billion to our economy. That is why we do have to ensure that we deliver for small business and help them bounce back from challenges and improve their long-term resilience. The most recent budget provided more than $640 million in practical and targeted support for small business. The government policy is to give a tax cut through the $20,000 instant asset write off, something that I think originally there was some dispute on the other side on—about whether they were going to support it. I'm pleased that, on this one occasion, they actually did the right thing. We've abolished a number of nuisance tariffs in the largest unilateral tariff reform in two decades. We have updated the Commonwealth Procurement Rules, with small businesses getting a bigger slice of the $75 billion the Australian government spends each year in contracts, with a 40 per cent target for contracts up to $20 million and a 25 per cent target on contracts up to $1 billion in value.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator McGrath, first supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:18</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McGRATH</name>
    <name.id>217241</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, recent research from Roy Morgan found that 1.9 million homeowners are at risk of mortgage stress, increasing by 852,000 since you came to government. The average owner-occupier mortgage has now risen to $634,479, a 9.3 increase from 2023. Can you explain how these figures represent the cheaper mortgages the Prime Minister promised to voters prior to the last election?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:18</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I think there were three economic points in relation to that. The first is inflation, and I've responded to that on a number of occasions. The second is wages. We see that, unlike you, we have more people entering the workforce. We have more people who are able to keep more of what they earn because of our tax cuts. Of course, we have wages growing in a way they did not grow under you. The third point is obviously housing supply. We know that housing affordability and the difficulty with housing affordability is in great part being driven by a lack of housing supply. On all three of these domains of economic policy you see the government acting and the coalition doing what you would anticipate, which is opposing.</para>
<para>It is the case that many people are struggling to make ends meet. It is the case that many people are struggling when it comes to mortgages, and what— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator McGrath, second supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:19</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McGRATH</name>
    <name.id>217241</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>In his 2022 victory speech, the Prime Minister stated:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… I can promise all Australians this—no matter how you voted today, the government I lead will respect every one of you every day.</para></quote>
<para>How can the Prime Minister possibly claim to have kept his promise to respect Australians when he has failed to deliver on any of the numerous promises he made prior to the last election, like delivering cheaper mortgages or reducing energy bills by $275?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:20</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The disrespect actually is to vote against assistance to Australians and then come in and play politics with the fact that Australians are doing it tough. That is what the game plan is. I know there's a lot of arrogance on the other side. Mr Dutton, we know, is a very arrogant man. But if you're serious about helping in these jobs—if you're serious about trying to help people with the work that you're doing—then surely you should be trying to deliver the sort of relief that the government is. We understand how tough people are doing it. That is why we have worked hard to deliver cost-of-living relief while we are working hard to bring inflation down and to ensure wages continue to increase. I just make the point that those on the other side oppose cost-of-living relief and oppose higher wages. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Forestry Industry</title>
          <page.no>4694</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:21</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON-YOUNG</name>
    <name.id>I0U</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Minister for the Environment and Water, Senator McAllister. One of the greatest threats to endangered Australian wildlife like the koala and the swift parrot is the destruction of their habitat, yet the majority—</para>
<para>Honourable senators interjecting—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! Senator Hanson-Young, please resume your seat.</para>
<para>Opposition senators interjecting—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order on my left! Order! I am waiting for quiet.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order, Senator McKim! That applies to you when I call order. Senator Hanson-Young, I'm going to invite you to begin your question again, and I'm going to ask for the clock to be reset. Please begin again.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON-YOUNG</name>
    <name.id>I0U</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, President. My question is to the Minister representing the Minister for the Environment and Water, Senator McAllister. One of the greatest threats to endangered Australian wildlife like the koala and the swift parrot is the destruction of their habitat, yet the majority of deforestation in Australia is not assessed by our federal environment laws. Why does the logging industry get an exemption that not even the miners get?</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:22</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McALLISTER</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The senator asks about the approach that this government takes to environment protection. The senator, in fact, already knows the answer to this question, which is that the Australian government has embarked on a program of law reform to improve the laws which govern the way that environment issues are managed in this country. In fact, we did that on the basis of a report that was commissioned by the previous government and delivered by Professor Samuel, who recommended wide-ranging changes to Australia's environment laws. At this point in time, the second tranche of legislation to implement those policy reforms is before this chamber. In fact, it is open to the Greens to vote for that legislation—to vote for legislation that would put a tough cop on the beat and increase penalties. It is surprising to me that the Greens political party continue to insist that they do not intend to vote for this legislation at all and that, despite going to the electorate and saying that you're the people who want to see reform, you're indicating that you don't want to see Environment Protection Australia, a new national authority, established.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKim</name>
    <name.id>JKM</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Are you going to mention forests—you know, the f-word?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator McKim!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McALLISTER</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator McKim interjects, and he asks about the approach to native forestry. What I indicated to you earlier in my comments, Senator, is that the program of reform that the government's embarked upon is comprehensive and, as part of that reform, we've publicly indicated—we have made it very clear—that native forest logging will be regulated by national environment laws for the first time ever through a national environment standard. The question for you is whether you're in the cart for this reform or not. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Hanson-Young, first supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:24</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON-YOUNG</name>
    <name.id>I0U</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Samuel report clearly said that the exemption for the regional forest agreements should be removed. Previously, the Labor government have said they would do this. I want to know: will you get it done while you can in this term of government?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:25</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McALLISTER</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>As I indicated in my answer to your primary question, Senator, we have legislation before this parliament to implement our proposed nature positive laws. Your party have publicly indicated that you do not intend to vote for them. It's up to you to explain to the Australian public why you won't vote for legislation which establishes stronger penalties, which establishes stronger compliance arrangements and which has been asked for and supported by Australian environmental groups as well as Australian businesses.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! Minister McAllister, please resume your seat. Senator McKim, I've called you at least four times. Your constant interjections are rude, disrespectful and disorderly. You will listen in silence or you can leave the chamber. That's your choice. Minister McAllister, please continue.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McALLISTER</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>As I was indicating to the Senate, we have a comprehensive program of reform in place. We have legislation before the Senate to which support has been provided by environment stakeholders and by business stakeholders. The actual truth is that the current laws are not working in the way that we need them to. They're not protecting the environment adequately and we need reform, and the question is why the Greens won't get involved— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Hanson-Young, second supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:26</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON-YOUNG</name>
    <name.id>I0U</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>It's extraordinary how many words need to be said to try and avoid using the word 'forest'. If these logging loopholes aren't closed and Australia continues to be the global deforestation hotspot, how on earth does the government expect to stop extinction of our wildlife?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:27</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McALLISTER</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>It can be at difficult times to answer a question that is entirely unresponsive to the information that's already been provided, so I will go back to the original information that I gave you, Senator, which is this: as part of our Nature Positive Plan, we have said that native forest logging will be regulated under national environment laws for the first time ever through national environment standards. We have put this proposition forward, and we have sought support in this chamber for the reform package. Tranche 2 is in front of you. You have yet to explain why you won't vote for those laws, which improve penalties, which improve information-gathering powers and which establish a better architecture to police environment laws and—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister McAllister, please resume your seat. Senator McKim, please take up my invitation to either cease your interjections or leave the chamber. Minister McAllister, please continue.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McALLISTER</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I understand that we are approaching an election and that this is a favourite area for the Greens, but the actual truth that they can't escape is that there are environment laws before this chamber that they are refusing— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Cost of Living</title>
          <page.no>4695</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:28</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHELDON</name>
    <name.id>168275</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Treasurer, Senator Gallagher. Since we last met, the Albanese Labor government has continued to focus on cost-of-living relief for all Australians. In addition to the announcement in August that we would wipe $3 billion off student debt, the government has now gone further, wiping a further 20 per cent off all student loans for three million Australians and cutting debt repayment rates. Minister, why has the government taken this approach? How will it assist people who have student debts with the cost of living?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:29</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Sheldon for this really important question and for highlighting the work that's been done since we last sat to look at ways that we can continue to roll out both effective and responsible cost-of-living relief and also some support for young people in this country, particularly as we know that we need more and more of them to go to university and TAFE to make sure they can secure the job opportunities of the future and so that Australia can secure its economic opportunities ahead.</para>
<para>As our leader has said this afternoon, the Labor government wants Australians to earn more and keep more of what they earn and not pay more than they should. So we've been really focused on ways that we can assist Australians with student debt, often younger Australians, and we did that in the budget by initially dealing with that indexation challenge that we had, which will wipe $3 billion off student debt and put in place a long-term, lasting reform around the indexation rate that applies to people with student debts.</para>
<para>By cutting the debt and increasing the repayment thresholds, which is part of this new announcement, we are freeing up money for other costs that young people face, like moving out of home, furnishing a home, buying a car or saving a deposit for a home. Our policy cuts a further 20 per cent off all student loans, which will benefit around three million Australians. This represents around $16 billion in cuts, reducing the debt burden for Australians with a student loan. Someone with the average HELP debt of $27,600 will see around $5,520 wiped from that debt from next year. In August, we introduced a bill to cap the HELP indexation rate to be the lower of the CPI or the WPI and impose that retrospectively— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Sheldon, a first supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:31</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHELDON</name>
    <name.id>168275</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, it is clear that Labor's HELP debt policy will make life easier for three million Australians, particularly young Australians. How is the government supporting the rest of the community with cost-of-living relief, and can the minister outline progress made to tackle inflation?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:31</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Sheldon for the supplementary. These are the key priorities that we've been working on since coming to government. Again, as Senator Wong outlined in her answers to questions earlier, we inherited an inflation challenge that was increasing. It was about 6.1 per cent. It peaked at 7.8 per cent at the end of that calendar year, and we have been getting it down. We've been absolutely focused on how we can bring inflation down in a way that supports households that are doing it tough.</para>
<para>That's why we have been looking at initiatives like energy bill relief, investments in child care, free TAFE and more money going into Medicare. All of these are areas where investments are felt at the hip pocket but don't add to the inflation challenge that we have been trying to manage. Getting costs down, getting wages moving and getting inflation back to where it should be has been a key focus of our economic plan. The data we are seeing in relation to inflation is very promising. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Sheldon, a second supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:32</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHELDON</name>
    <name.id>168275</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, what challenges have the government faced in delivering cost-of-living relief to all Australians, and how can the Senate work together to ensure that people with student debt can get some relief?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:32</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you very much, Senator Sheldon. As we will see in the next week or so, the Senate could support the reforms that are before the parliament. We have important reforms not only to indexation arrangements but also to implementing aspects of the Universities Accord. We want to make sure our vocational education and training system and our higher education system broadly is geared, supported and invested in by this government to make sure that people have the choices going forward, whether they want to take up a trade, get a certificate or enrol in a bachelor's degree or even a further degree beyond that. We are about investing in that system and making it easier for people to take up those choices. We will remain focused on that. But, certainly, one thing the Senate could do is support the government and not oppose all our measures, as those opposite have consistently done for the last 2½ years.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Cybersafety</title>
          <page.no>4697</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:33</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ROBERTS</name>
    <name.id>266524</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Minister for Communications, Senator McAllister. During Senate estimates on 5 November, the age assurance verification trial and social media age verification proposals were examined. For those who missed it, let me see if I have this correct. The system the government is considering will require two things: firstly, a digital ID to access social media for all users and, then, to make sure nobody is using a dodgy digital ID, age verification assurance technology, which will scan the user's face, monitor their key strokes for content and technique and calculate their age. If it finds the person might be underage, it will compare it back to the biometric data in the person's digital ID and check their identity and date of birth. Is that an accurate, concise explanation of the system being examined?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:34</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McALLISTER</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>No. I suppose I could sit down; perhaps I'll just say: no, that is not accurate. We are obviously engaged in an important policy reform process to protect children from some of the harms that they are exposed to on social media. I would be really surprised, Senator Roberts, if you hadn't heard about this amongst the people that you talk to in your constituency. I think every senator in this place has had a conversation with a parent or perhaps with a teacher who was concerned about the kind of information that children are seeing online and accessing online and the inability of parents to actually engage and protect their children from some of those harms.</para>
<para>We want Australian parents to know that we've got their backs. That is the underlying motivation for embarking on the reform. It's, of course, about protecting kids. We still want them to be connected. We don't want to punish children. We don't want to isolate them. But we do want them to operate in an environment that is safe, and that's the reason that we have committed to bringing forward legislation for a minimum age limit for social media this fortnight. We have worked with a pretty wide range of stakeholders, and we're very grateful for the support that we've received in doing this work. Obviously, the National Cabinet has taken a very strong interest in this, and first ministers in that forum have agreed that the Commonwealth will legislate a minimum age of 16.</para>
<para>I think one of the implications of your question and the way that you framed it was a concern around privacy, and that's a legitimate question to ask. We will not put at risk the personal information of Australians, and the regulations will include robust privacy protections for personal information with significant penalties for platforms that breach— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Roberts, first supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:36</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ROBERTS</name>
    <name.id>266524</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I predicted during the digital ID debate that one person could sign a younger person into social media, and the only solution is keeping the device camera on permanently, which is an outrageous breach of trust and privacy. While you're peeping into the camera feed of all social media users, hackers will have an easy hack to spy on families in their bedrooms, to learn daily routines and to work out when the home can be safely burgled. Minister, in the name of supposedly keeping children safe, are you building a surveillance apparatus for perverts and thieves?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:37</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McALLISTER</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>No.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Roberts, second supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:37</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ROBERTS</name>
    <name.id>266524</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The government's solution still requires a camera to be permanently on. There will be continuous surveillance of the computer user in their own home by the government. If a parent has a child on their knee watching a children's video or a cooking video on social media, will the system lock them out because the child is under 16? Minister, in your brave new world of internet regulation, do parents have any rights over their children's lives, or is the Albanese government cancelling parents?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:38</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McALLISTER</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Almost nothing in the set of propositions put forward by Senator Roberts in his question to me were accurate, true or based on anything that has been said publicly by the minister or anyone in the government, and I want to make that very, very clear. Our focus is, in fact, on protecting children from an environment that has not been designed to secure their safety, and the reason that we know that is we hear that all the time from the parents that speak to us.</para>
<para>Our interest, in fact, is in creating an environment that is supportive of parents who are trying to engage in a constructive way to deal with the information that their children are exposed to. Our interest is in supporting those parents who say, 'We wish to do better in terms of the harms our kids are experiencing, but we don't have the tools.' That is the focus of our legislative— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Superannuation</title>
          <page.no>4698</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:39</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRAGG</name>
    <name.id>256063</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Treasurer, Senator Gallagher. Minister, super funds like Cbus and AustralianSuper are facing significant regulatory fines. Does the Albanese government support these super funds passing on these costs to their members in the form of additional charges?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:39</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Bragg for the question. The government is a strong supporter of the regulators and the regulatory system that has been put in place to make sure that, where there are issues of concern or where there are issues that the regulators identify as issues of concern, they take action. That's what we are seeing happen with some of the cases that Senator Bragg has been following and that I think he alludes to in his question. The government supports the regulatory system that has been put in place. We support having strong, independent regulators like ASIC and APRA and also support them being able to do their job without political interference. That would be the government's position.</para>
<para>We have a strong superannuation system. It's done a great job in terms of ensuring that members are accumulating funds for their retirement. We want to make sure those funds always act in their members' interests, and I think the superannuation industry scheme legislation is pretty specific about that. That's why we have APRA and ASIC doing the work that they need to do. Making sure that the superannuation system works in the interests of members, that there's transparency around that and, where there are problems, that those problems are investigated and responded to by the regulators is the system that the government supports.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Bragg, first supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:41</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRAGG</name>
    <name.id>256063</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, how it is reasonable for these super funds to pay unions but the same shareholder unions can avoid paying fines?</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister Gallagher?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Gallagher</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I didn't hear the first bit of the question, just the second bit, so—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I invite Senator Bragg to restate the question.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRAGG</name>
    <name.id>256063</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>It's not very complicated. The question is—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Bragg, there's no need for commentary. Just repeat the question.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRAGG</name>
    <name.id>256063</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>It wasn't commentary. I wasn't trying to editorialise. All I was asking was: how is it reasonable for these super funds to pay the union movement but for the same shareholder unions that own the funds not to pay regulatory fines?</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:41</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I think I answered this in my answer to the original question. There are regulators that enforce the legislation that governs the superannuation industry. The rules and laws need to be abided by. The regulators need to respond and, where they find misconduct or inappropriate conduct, they have a range of penalties available to them. This parliament has set the regulatory arrangements for the superannuation industry. We are always looking at ways to strengthen superannuation in this country. Those opposite are always looking to destroy it. Senator Bragg himself never misses an opportunity to talk down superannuation. They won't be happy until every person in Australia has had access to their super funds before retirement to raise the level of housing prices in this country.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Bragg, second supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:41</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRAGG</name>
    <name.id>256063</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Does the Albanese government, therefore, have any plan to step in to protect members of the super funds, or does the government endorse super funds paying unions but not their insurance claims?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:41</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Again, I answered this question in the original answer. The government supports a strongly regulated superannuation system for all superannuation entities. There are rules in place, rules that have been determined by this chamber. Those rules need to be enforced, and if there are any concerns or if there are any findings that are inappropriate then the penalties should be imposed. Labor will always support the superannuation system. We invest in it, we value it, and we think it's good for working people. You will always seek to undermine it.</para>
<para>Honourable senators interjecting—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! I invite those senators who have so much to say via their interjections to make their comments at some other time, not at question time.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Tertiary Education</title>
          <page.no>4699</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:44</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARUQI</name>
    <name.id>250362</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Minister for Education. Student debt is crushing millions of people, shackling them in a lifetime of debt, blocking people out of getting their first home, making it harder to make ends meet, causing people to delay having families and even crushing their dream of going to uni. After years of relentless pressure, Labor is adopting parts of the Greens' policy to start to cancel some student debt. But what are you waiting for? Why are you dangling your pledge to cancel 20 per cent of student debt as an election bribe? Minister, will you commit to introducing legislation this week to lock in your government's pledge on cancelling 20 per cent of student debt and increasing the repayment threshold?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:45</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator Faruqi, for highlighting yet another commitment of the Albanese Labor government to do something about the cost-of-living pressures that Australians are facing. We've had questions before from Senator Hodgins-May about the early childhood education and care payments that it took a Labor government to provide, and I appreciate you highlighting the commitment from a Labor government to deliver a reduction in student debt.</para>
<para>This is a very important change that took a Labor government to provide—not a Greens government, because that will never exist, and not a coalition government, that's for sure, because they were about loading up student debt. It took a Labor government to actually commit to cutting a further 20 per cent off all student loan debts, which will wipe around $16 billion in debt for around three million Australians.</para>
<para>That comes on top of the measures that we announced in this year's budget to change the indexation rate for students who had taken out significant debts, which grew exponentially under a coalition government. Again, it took a federal Labor government—the Albanese Labor government—to make the necessary changes to relieve that kind of pressure on students. I'm very proud of the fact that it is the Albanese Labor government that has now made a commitment to cutting 20 per cent off all student loan debts. That means that, for students with a debt of about $20,000 to $30,000, it's a reduction of $4,000 to $6,000 in their debt. For students with a debt of $30,000 to $40,000, it's a reduction of $6,000 to $8,000 in their debt. For students with debts of $50,000 to $60,000, which is about 147,500 Australians, it's a reduction of $10,000 to $12,000.</para>
<para>We've also heard, over the last week, the coalition oppose this policy, because they want students to have it even harder when they're trying to save up for house deposits. They want life to get harder for Australians, whether they're students, workers or anyone else.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Faruqi, first supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:47</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARUQI</name>
    <name.id>250362</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The question was about when and not what. Minister, people need certainty on student debt relief right now. The vast majority of people burdened with student debt are young people and women, who also bear the brunt of the housing and rental crisis and the cost-of-living crisis. In the absence of any government legislation, will you support Greens amendments to the Universities Accord bill to lock in your pledge to cancel 20 per cent of student debt and give people certainty right now—not next year and not after the election?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:47</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Unfortunately, we're in a situation where the Greens party of Australia, undeterred by their recent shellacking in the Queensland and ACT elections, have decided to double-down on their policies and continue obstructing Labor as we attempt to deliver real improvements for students, for workers and for people looking for housing.</para>
<para>Senator Faruqi included in her question the point that Australians are struggling to deal with lack of housing. Yes, they are. I wonder if there's someone in this chamber who could do something about that. Yes, there is. Their party name is a colour. Work out who that is. It's the Greens party who, by voting for our Help to Buy legislation, could be doing something to help Australians struggling with housing. It's the Greens party who, by voting for Labor's legislation around student debt, could be doing something to relieve student debt. But, instead of that, all you do is obstruct and ask questions about things that you'll never actually deliver.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Faruqi, second supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:48</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARUQI</name>
    <name.id>250362</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, people are tired of being used as pawns in political games about their lives that are being played by Labor. You have a chance to show right now that Labor cares about people being crushed by student debt. Why won't you stop playing political games and actually legislate right now?</para>
<para>Government senators interjecting—</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARUQI</name>
    <name.id>250362</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Yes, you can laugh. You don't care about people.</para>
<para>Honourable senators interjecting—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! I'm going to wait for the chamber to come to order before I call the minister.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:49</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I really have seen it all—a Greens party senator asking questions about political games. Really? The party who thrives on grandstanding and the party who will take any stage to grandstand, even if that's to line up with disgraced leaders of the CFMEU—that's how much you will grandstand—now wants to come in here and lecture other people about political games and using people as pawns.</para>
<para>For many months now, the Labor Party has had legislation, Help to Buy, in this chamber to literally help Australians to buy their own homes, and what has the Greens party done? They've stood in the way and joined up with Peter Dutton and the coalition to block that going ahead. Please don't give us a lecture about political games. We know that not all of the Greens party think that way. Senator Faruqi was giving voice to the extreme faction of the Greens party, which wants to block everything that Labor tries to do. We know there are other Greens who don't support that kind of approach and actually want to get things done. Maybe they'll eventually get something done and back in Labor when we're doing something. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Vocational Education and Training</title>
          <page.no>4700</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:50</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GROGAN</name>
    <name.id>296331</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Minister for Skills and Training, Senator Watt. The cost of living is front of mind for all Australians, and we know that the cost of courses is often a significant barrier to studying for many existing and aspiring students. Over the next decade, nine out of 10 new jobs will require post-secondary qualifications, and almost half of them will come through a VET pathway. I note that Mr Dutton and the Liberals and Nationals oversaw a chronic skills deficit, and they believe that investment in TAFE is just wasteful spending. How is the Labor government continuing to prioritise skills and training and removing the cost barriers for Australian students? What are the key challenges to delivering this support to Australian students?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:51</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you very much, Senator Grogan, who I know is a very strong supporter of TAFE and the free TAFE program that our government is putting forward. The Albanese Labor government know that Australians are doing it tough right now, and that's why our economic plan is all about helping people with the cost of living while also driving down inflation. A key part of our cost-of-living support is helping more Australians access high-quality training for free so that they can get secure, well-paid jobs. That's what the Albanese government's free TAFE places agenda is all about. Our free TAFE initiative is bringing down the costs of getting a qualification, saving students money and helping them into better paid jobs.</para>
<para>Working with the states and territories, our government's free TAFE initiative is also making immediate inroads in addressing the skills shortages faced by Australian employers. The enormous uptake of enrolments in its first 18 months demonstrates what a critical difference free TAFE makes to Australians looking to undertake training. Since free TAFE started in January 2023, there have been more than 508,000 enrolments in courses in priority areas, including construction, early education, digital technology and care. Importantly, one in every three places has been taken up by people in regional communities and six in every 10 enrolments have been women.</para>
<para>Opposition senators interjecting—</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>We are hearing the sneering coming from the other side of the chamber about the idea that Australians would get free TAFE courses to help them into a better job. Given the significant benefit the program is providing to women in regional towns, you might be surprised to hear what the deputy Liberal leader, the member for Farrer, said about free TAFE. She called it 'wasteful spending'. How arrogant! They sneer at regional Australians trying to get ahead and they sneer at women trying to seek to re-enter the workforce by getting a free TAFE place that is being provided by the Albanese Labor government.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Grogan, first supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:53</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GROGAN</name>
    <name.id>296331</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>On this side of the chamber, we know that vocational education and training plays a crucial role in addressing the skills shortages in critical areas like construction. Can the minister outline how the Albanese Labor government's investment in fee-free TAFE will support more Australians to pursue careers in construction?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:54</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I can, Senator Grogan. Under our government, we're helping more tradies get the qualifications they need to build more homes and we're helping them get those qualifications for free.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Henderson scoffs. Was that a scoff or a sneer? I'm not quite sure what that was.</para>
<para>A government senator: It was a sneer.</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>It was a sneer, wasn't it? It was a sneer at the idea that we would help people get into construction trades through free TAFE courses. More than 35,000 Australians are doing free construction courses through our free TAFE policy in the program's first 18 months. Last week our government made announcements with the Western Australian and South Australian governments that will make more free TAFE places available in construction and housing courses—because, if we want to build more homes, we need more boots on the ground. Unlike an arrogant Peter Dutton, we won't sneer at young Australians seeking—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Watt, you need to (1) refer to those in the other place by their correct titles and (2) withdraw the comment.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I withdraw. Under an arrogant Mr Dutton—was that it?</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>You are reflecting on his character.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Okay. We won't sneer at young Australians seeking a qualification in construction and call it wasteful spending. We will deliver that support to people who need it. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Grogan, a second supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:55</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GROGAN</name>
    <name.id>296331</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>We have an ageing population and there's an increasing demand for care and support services across the country. How does fee-free TAFE support the development of a skilled and resilient workforce in the care sector and what are the key barriers to meeting our workforce needs?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:55</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Free TAFE is helping train more carers to look after our loved ones, whether they be young or old. Over the past 18 months, the most enrolled free TAFE courses were in early childhood education, individual support and nursing. In fact, there have been over 130,000 new enrolments in aged-care and disability care courses. That's 130,000 Australians getting the skills they need for free because of the Albanese Labor government. We need to grow the next generation of high-quality health and aged-care workers, and removing cost barriers with free TAFE will continue to attract students into care industries which still need more workers.</para>
<para>For example, in Queensland, a student enrolled in a Diploma of Nursing course would save almost $16,000 under our free TAFE policy. Cristy is one of those students training at the Loganlea campus, and she says that free TAFE is:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… a 'huge help'. The financial support has allowed me to focus on my studies without worrying about tuition costs.</para></quote>
<para>That's what free TAFE is doing for Australians. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Wong</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>President, on a point of order, I wonder if you could take some time post question time to reconsider your ruling on the use of the word 'arrogant'. My submission to you would be that that is a word that has been used quite regularly in this place, and asking Senator Watt to withdraw 'arrogant' in relation to Mr Dutton probably is not consistent with precedent. I know that Senator McGrath might not agree with Senator Watt, but that's a different issue. I wonder if you could consider that and perhaps respond later in the day or tomorrow.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator Wong. I will do that.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme</title>
          <page.no>4701</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:57</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator KOVACIC</name>
    <name.id>306168</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to Minister representing the Minister for Health and Aged Care, Senator Gallagher. The Department of Health and Aged Care has revealed that your government has put a cap on the number of medicines that can be considered for listing on the Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme. This is the first time in history that this process has been capped. It will cause serious delays for Australians wanting to access potentially life-saving or life-changing new medicines. Will your government commit to immediately removing this cap?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:58</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Kovacic for the question. I think this is the issue that we dealt with in estimates in quite considerable detail, in terms of the management of what has been a very significant increase in applications for PBAC approval. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but I recall from estimates that it was a very significant increase that couldn't be dealt with at one meeting, so the decision of the minister was to call for an extra meeting so that all of those applications could be considered in detail and that those were triaged against, as I understand it, an assessment of criteria to make sure that those decisions could be dealt with as quickly as possible.</para>
<para>I think we went into it in detail. The workforce to provide some of those assessments simply isn't as big as we need it to be, so quite a lot of work has been done by the department of health to go out and try to find extra assessors to provide information for that. Everything that can be done is being done to make sure those PBAC meetings—the one that is being held in March and the extra one—are being dealt with as quickly as possible. I reject the insinuation that there has been some sense of control put on it. It is about managing the appropriate safety and regulatory responsibilities to ensure that those applications are processed as quickly as possible. It is highly unusual to have this number come forward, much more than any other standard meeting, and that is why these extra measures have been put in place.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Kovacic, a first supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:00</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator KOVACIC</name>
    <name.id>306168</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>In Senate estimates you said, 'We need to accept the reality that there is only so much that one PBAC meeting can do.' Can you please clarify why you think Australian patients who are waiting for access to life-saving medicines and treatments should accept your government's cap on potential new PBS medicines?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:00</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Again, I reject the use of the word 'cap'. There has been double the number of applications come in for assessment through PBAC. We have a system in place that manages how those submissions are dealt with. If you were in government right now, it would be exactly the same for you, so the fact that you are politicising the safety—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! Senator Ruston.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>and regulatory assessments of medicines in this country is outrageous. We have a certain amount that can be dealt with at the March meeting, so the minister has asked PBAC, has directed PBAC, to hold an additional meeting—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, please resume your seat. Minister Wong, on a point of order?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Wong</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Ruston has been called numerous times and she has ignored your requests.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Ruston, it is not a matter of whether your comments are acceptable or unacceptable; they are rude and disorderly and disrespectful. I have asked you several times to be quiet when a minister is answering the question, so I am going to request that you do that, or your choice is to leave the chamber. Minister Gallagher, please continue.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The fact that this is going to be used politically, it seems, is a real shame because the real issue here is that there aren't enough independent assessors to do the work to deliver all of those submissions in a three-day meeting in March, so an extra one has been called for May so that things can be managed as quickly as possible.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Kovacic, a second supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:02</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator KOVACIC</name>
    <name.id>306168</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>When last in government, Labor took the unprecedented step of deferring the listing of new medicines on the PBS because it couldn't manage the budget. Health minister at the time, Nicola Roxon, said Labor can't in every instance guarantee that a drug will be listed immediately because there are financial consequences for doing that. Minister, Labor promised to list all PBAC recommended medicines on the PBS. Has your government implemented the new PBS cap because you are worried about the financial consequences of delivering on this promise?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:03</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I will repeat: there is no cap. We are managing unprecedented submissions coming to PBAC and we need to make sure those medicines are safe and ready to use. It is done in March and May. For those opposite that have voted against cheaper medicines in this chamber to then come in here and point the finger at us on medicines, we have done more in 2½ years to bring down the price of medicines, to make sure medicines are more affordable, to make sure people who are on long-term medications can get double the amount of medications for the price of one month. And from 1 July 2022 to 1 November 2024 the government has committed additional funding for 265 new and amended PBS listings. A further 476 items were also approved where the budget funding is already provided and there have been a further 22 price changes. We are doing everything we can to make more medicines available.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Wong</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I ask that further questions be placed on the <inline font-style="italic">Notice Paper.</inline></para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE: TAKE NOTE OF ANSWERS</title>
        <page.no>4702</page.no>
        <type>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE: TAKE NOTE OF ANSWERS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Answers to Questions</title>
          <page.no>4702</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:04</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McGRATH</name>
    <name.id>217241</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate take note of the answers given by ministers to questions without notice asked by Opposition senators today.</para></quote>
<para>What is disappointing today is the realisation that this government is just so out of touch with what is going on out in the real world. We don't just have a Canberra bubble; we have this perspex, fibreglass, brick wall bubble around Canberra that seems to be shielding the Labor Party and the Labor Party ministers from what's going on out in the real world. Indeed, their only interaction with the real world is when the secretary of the Labor Party, Mr Paul Erickson, wanders up the hill with his union funded research to tell the Labor Party, 'This is what's happening out in the real world.' There is a cost-of-living crisis out in the real world. There's actually a crime crisis out in the real world.</para>
<para>We just saw in the Queensland election only a few weeks ago that Queenslanders understood that the Liberal National Party, with its priorities and focus on the cost-of-living crisis, the crime crisis, the housing crisis and the health crisis, had the plan, the vision and the knowledge to get on with the job. That's why the LNP won a substantial victory on 26 October and that's why I believe that, with Mr Albanese having bought his retirement home, it would be rude of us to stop him from moving into his retirement home sooner rather than later. I would encourage the Prime Minister to call an election—whenever; we'll be there—because my reading of the people around Queensland in particular is that there is a mood for change to get rid of this Labor Party because of the cost-of-living crisis but also because of the failure of the Prime Minister and those ministers who sit around the cabinet table to keep their word.</para>
<para>We have a Prime Minister who said his word is his bond. Well, he broke his word and he has broken his bond. He's broken everything. The promises that Labor took to the last election, in particular in relation to energy bills and mortgages, have not just been broken by the Labor Party and by the Prime Minister; they've been trampled on, picked up, chewed up, spat out and then run over again. Such is the disregard of the Prime Minister and the Labor Party for the truth when it comes to keeping their promises not only in relation to power bills but also in relation to mortgages. The Prime Minister promised 97 times before the last election that power bills would go down by $275. There is not one Australian who would say that their power bill has gone down by $275 or, indeed, has gone down at all.</para>
<para>Every Australian's power bill has gone up since Labor have been elected to office. Power bills have gone up not just by a small amount; they've gone up by huge amounts. Look at the cost of gas. It's gone up 33 per cent. But it's not just power; it's everything else that's gone up. Health costs have gone up 10.5 per cent. Education costs have gone up 11.2 per cent. Food has gone up 12.3 per cent. Housing has gone up 13.1 per cent. Rents are up 16.3 per cent. Insurance has gone up 17.3 per cent. This is hurting Australians.</para>
<para>There are lessons from around the world, and people are taking the wrong lessons, in my view, out of the American election. The reason that Donald Trump won is that he focused on the bread-and-butter issues of the cost-of-living crisis impacting Americans. It's the reason why we've seen a change of government in Sri Lanka, why the Japanese governing party had a big swing against it, why Macron had a big swing against him and why the Conservatives lost.</para>
<para>The lesson for the Labor Party is that the mob are coming for you because you made promises before the last election, you've broken the promises since the last election and you do not understand how tough people are doing it. The mob are coming for you because of the cost-of-living crisis impacting Australians, and you should be scared. I would encourage the Labor Party and some of those Labor backbenchers to choose a nice font for your CVs—Times New Roman or Arial—because Peter Dutton is going to win the next election, David Littleproud is going to be his Deputy Prime Minister and it will be a government on the side of the people.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:10</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator STERLE</name>
    <name.id>e68</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I look forward to making my contribution to this part of the day's proceedings. I will touch on the cost of living, but I just want to go to the question that Senator McGrath asked in question time around small businesses. I want to say this with the greatest of respect: I don't know Senator McGrath's background—in fact, I don't know the backgrounds of the majority of those on the other side—but I actually was in a small business. My wife and I had our own little trucking company, and we had 11 years as owner-drivers, progressing from a rigid around town as a 20-year-old to running road trains from Perth to Darwin for the last 2½ years. So I do have a little bit of knowledge from my own patch, my history and my world of what small businesses want and what small businesses need.</para>
<para>Those on the other side who have been in small business will speak for themselves, I have no doubt. My good friend Senator Colbeck is a man who, like myself, worked with his hands, and I have the greatest respect for those who have come from that background. In this chamber in February and leading up to February, we had hundreds of thousands of small business owners and owner-drivers who were, through their associations—whether it be the TWU, the National Road Freighters or the membership of the state organisations, such as VTA, QTA, Western Roads Federation, Tasmanian Transport Association, NatRoad—pleading with that side of the chamber to pass the transport reforms so that the small businesses in this nation wouldn't continue to be screwed by the top end of the supply chain. Payment times can go from 60 to 90 to 150 days—and I won't name that client, but they're a big beer maker—and they expect small businesses to carry their costs.</para>
<para>I find it galling that that side became the champions of small business. When $24 million was put into a scare campaign, they said that, if transport reform had come here, that would not have assisted the small businesses in transport that were pleading for reform. I'll tell you who led the charge. Mobs like COSBOA and the National Farmers Federation did not want to see small businesses in the transport industry be safe, sustainable and viable. It's alright for their small businesses to want to be safe, sustainable and viable—and I want them to be too—but not us truckies and not transport companies. The Minerals Council of Australia—the less said about that mob the better. But, I have to say, they led the charge of transport reform, saying how that would somehow crucify the mining industry. I don't know how that was supposed to happen. Let's not forget the Business Council of Australia, who do not represent small businesses—far from it. In fact, the Business Council of Australia, the Australian Chamber of Commerce and Industry and the Australian Industry Group were all partners in crime, chipping money into the $24 million pot to fight against the transport reforms so that our small businesses could be safe, sustainable and viable. They represent the big end of town. These are the ones. They represent the construction mobs and the miners and all those who want to suppress the supply chains at the expense of small family businesses.</para>
<para>I sit there and I am gobsmacked. I absolutely cannot believe—and the people of Australia have to understand this—that that mob not once came up to the government and said, 'We don't want to close the loopholes, but we understand that small businesses in transport want to be protected and want to have their rights and want to be around for generation after generation.' How dare they want to make money and pay their debts and pocket a few bob to buy a new truck or new fork or a new yard! Not once did that side offer any alternative. Not once did they come up and say, 'How can we meet with the trucking industry and understand that those small businesses have their needs and their concerns?'</para>
<para>To wrap it up, I don't want to be crass, but I feel like I want to vomit when I hear that side over there insulting the transport industry, as each and every one of you did. There is no mistake about that. The trucking companies, the trucking families and the owner-drivers here in this nation won't forget because I'm going to be reminding them every opportunity I can that that side over there, and some of the crossbench—Senator Hanson and Senator Lambie and co—sent the same middle finger to the trucking industry.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:15</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CADELL</name>
    <name.id>300134</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I also want to add my comments, especially around the cost of living. We've heard all sorts of things about who voted for what or who didn't vote for what. The bottom line is that the government got their agenda through. They got their tax reform through. They got what they call 'cost-of-living relief' and what we call 'sugar hits' through. This chamber has stopped nothing, but they want to say, 'It's because we voted on it that things aren't better.' They got through everything they wanted to help with the cost of living—not everything they promised, but everything they brought to this place, but it is our fault because of how we voted. It made no difference to the outcome. That is what we get with this government. We don't get a fix; we get a long history of sugar hits and bandaids. When we have an economy that can slip back into recession, we throw in extra immigration to make sure that we don't go into recession. We go into per capita recession, but we don't go into actual recession. That's because we allow all these extra people to come in—365,000 in the last quarter, despite them saying that there will be a cap of 270,000. The economy still grows, but only because of the extra people we bring in. That is a bandaid.</para>
<para>When we hear that inflation is low, it's not underlying inflation; it's headline inflation because they give temporary handouts. That is the sugar hit. They never want to fix something; they want to cover it up. The problem is that, when you put bandaid upon bandaid upon bandaid on, sooner or later you'll have a shower and they'll all wash away. You know the bandaid comes off when it gets a bit wet in the shower. That's what's happening in this economy. That's what's happening in this government. The bandaids are coming off, and the wounds are still there because they haven't been treated.</para>
<para>The Reserve Bank governor, Michele Bullock, says that government spending is extending what's going on with inflation. The reason mums and dads are spending more every day of the week, the reason families are suffering and the reason all of this is going on is that the wound is government spending. The wound is government policy, and this government is running out of bandaids. Then there are the electricity rebates—the sugar hits, the sustenance. It's not on a good diet. It's not on a spending diet. It is feeding that problem, so all we do is delay it. Next quarter, when these rebates won't be there, inflation will go back up again. When you're governing to stay elected, you forget the real reason we're here—to govern the nation. When you govern to stay elected, you forget that you owe an obligation to the people who put you there to look after them, not yourself. And when we ask questions about the cost of living and the real policies, not the bandaids and the sugar hits, we hear nothing. This government has run into the bottom of the bag of ideas that will help. Instead, they are desperately grappling with things that will get them re-elected.</para>
<para>Today I heard a great debate from Senator McKim. He was talking about Labor's policy on the HECS debt change. That's their policy. They announced it. I love the move where they say, 'Here's a cost-of-living measure. If elected, this will happen.' This is where the test will come. If you believe in your policy, you will vote for the amendment on the cost of living. But you don't, and you won't. I believe everything that Senator McKim says, because it's all a game to stay elected. They don't care about the real cost of living. They don't care about cutting costs. They care about staying in the same offices in six months time.</para>
<para>Families have had enough. A report out today says that one in 10 people have a bill that a debt collector is actively handling. That's one in 10. When you're out there looking at those sorts of stats, the cost of living has gone too far. When Senator McGrath took note earlier, he talked about the difference between grassroots issues in America and grassroots issues here and the cost of living. In the last two years, real disposable income in the United States has gone up from two or three per cent. Here it has gone down 8.5 per cent. People have less. People are doing it tougher. We need to find ways of fixing things, not bandaiding things. We need to give people real reforms that will make their life easier, instead of these sugar hits that always come out. We come here and it's Ukraine, it's Trump; it's this and it's that.</para>
<para>Winners take responsibility. When the game is on the line, champions want the ball. If you don't want the ball, move out and let us, who want it, get it.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:20</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DARMANIN</name>
    <name.id>301128</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I want to take note of the predictable and repeated attacks on industry superannuation that were debated earlier today. The $3.9 trillion superannuation industry in this country is something that we should be proud of. It belongs to the workers of this country—we need to remember that. The vast pool of funds represents the hard-earned wages of Australians, set aside for them to retire with dignity and security. Time and time again, we come in here and we hear the system that is the envy of the world being run down by those opposite. What I'd really love to see in this place is a stop to the politicising of superannuation by those opposite, which comes from their ideological opposition to workers being involved in governing their own retirement savings.</para>
<para>Superannuation, as we know it today, was born out of visionary Labor leadership. It was in the final budget of the Hawke government in 1991 that universal compulsory superannuation was first announced, and it was the Keating government, in 1992, that brought it into law. That's in our lifetime. It wasn't just policy; it was a bold and visionary step in securing the future of every working Australian. And it has delivered. It's about addressing the looming intergenerational challenges of an ageing population, and it is also about fairness—about ensuring that, regardless of your income, your profession or your background, you could build a nest egg for your retirement. Prior to 1985, which is not too long ago, Australia relied only on the taxpayer-provided age pension as the principal post-employment income system. This system, as I said, is the envy of the world. It should not be politicised; rather, it should be supported by all of us.</para>
<para>I'll now turn to the specific debate that was raised by Senator Bragg earlier today. As Senator Gallagher said, the Albanese government expects all superannuation funds to meet the highest standards of governance and to act in the best financial interests of its members. The law requires this, and the independent regulators, APRA and ASIC, have the mandate to uphold these standards. I know this firsthand. I had the privilege of being on the board of a superannuation fund. I was actually the chair of a superannuation fund. I know firsthand the supervision that is applied to funds by APRA and ASIC, the regulators. In my own experience, I met with APRA a number of times, as chair of that superannuation fund, as part of their regular supervision regime.</para>
<para>Labor is committed to delivering accountability, transparency and good governance in every part of our financial system, and we have a very strong record of transparency. We have legislated to align financial reporting requirements by funds with those of public companies. We have expanded the coverage of superannuation performance tests, from around 70 products to more than 600. We have supported APRA's work to expand transparency of superannuation fund expenditure, with its latest release.</para>
<para>The part of superannuation that I think those opposite find most offensive is that it is a partnership between employers and employees, with workers and their employers working together to deliver retirement savings. This working together includes marketing through employer organisations and employee organisations. Often these arrangements are more cost-effective than doing so through other means. In fact, at the October 2023 Senate estimates, Margaret Cole, the Deputy Chair of APRA, said, in relation to some of these marketing arrangements:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… there are many in the super industry who make payments to related parties, and that can include trade unions, that are for perfectly proper purposes and which would appear on the face of it to be value for money and appropriate.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">…   …   …</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">… super funds require services. They may contract with trade unions and others—</para></quote>
<para>including employer organisations—</para>
<quote><para class="block">to provide those services …</para></quote>
<para>As long as it is in the best financial interests of their members, then it is appropriate.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:25</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator COLBECK</name>
    <name.id>00AOL</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to make my contribution to this motion to take note of answers from government ministers in question time. It's fascinating that the government want to talk about anything but the cost of living and the impact that it's having on the Australian people. Their talking points roll out all the excuses, all the tricky language, all the distractions from the reality of what Australians are feeling.</para>
<para>As my colleagues have said, Australians are hurting. But the focus should be on the fact that the Australian government, this government, made a number of promises to the Australian people, before the last election, in relation to the economic circumstances that they would see under a Labor government. Quite clearly, those promises have been broken and continue to be broken by Labor—of course, the most famous being the $275 reduction in power prices that Mr Albanese and Labor promised 97 times before the election, which will never be seen. The Australian people are now supposed to be grateful that, because Labor broke its promise to them to reduce power prices, they're receiving back some of their own money to mitigate the cost of higher power prices, which is exactly the opposite of what was promised to them before the election.</para>
<para>They were promised cheaper housing costs, and the average Australian is paying over $30,000 a year more on their mortgage than they were when this government came into power. That's clearly a broken promise. They were promised cheaper housing, but housing has only become more expensive. They were promised cheaper food, and that's up by over 11 per cent. The number of things that have gone up by more than 10 per cent since this government came to power is a long list. Health is up by 10.4 per cent. They talk about cheaper health, but health costs have gone up by 10.4 per cent. Education is by 11.5 per cent. Food, as I said, is up by 11.7 per cent. Housing is up by 12.9 per cent. Rents are up 16.4 per cent, and gas is up 33.9 per cent.</para>
<para>This government of broken promises continues to distract, to talk about other people, to do anything but acknowledge that it made these promises to the Australian people before the last election and has no intention, no desire, no will to keep the promises that it made.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Cybersafety</title>
          <page.no>4706</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:28</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ROBERTS</name>
    <name.id>266524</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate take note of the answer given by the Minister for Emergency Management (Senator McAllister) to a question without notice I asked today relating to age verification for social media:</para></quote>
<para>We all know the real intent of the digital ID agenda. The United Kingdom has almost the same laws that we have here, and in the last two weeks the British police have visited and advised hundreds of journalists and commentators that they should stop criticising the Starmer government's policies. Some were arrested and imprisoned for nothing more than an opinion. The digital ID, misinformation laws and facial verification laws are all part of the control mechanism that facilitates government surveillance and tyranny. The mask has come off quickly. Only recently, Minister Gallagher reassured Australians that the digital ID was not compulsory, yet without it life will be impossible.</para>
<para>The digital ID started life under the Morrison Liberal government. As recently as April, the opposition leader, Peter Dutton, championed the Communications Legislation Amendment (Combatting Misinformation and Disinformation) Bill 2024, and the Liberals support social media age verification. Age verification means the government forcing the digital ID on everyone, paired with frequent facial scans from the camera on your device. That means the camera on your internet enabled device will be on permanently.</para>
<para>One Nation opposes a world where children become hackers and subversives before they're old enough to drive, just so they can keep in contact with their friends and relatives on social media. Children will be forced into the dark corners of the web like peer-to-peer messaging, where no protections exist against illegal material, hate, phishing, hacking and sextortion. Adults will no longer express their opinions for fear of that 4 am United Kingdom-style raid from the thought police. Australians should have the option of a regulated private verification service if they see fit, because mandating digital ID is an unacceptable infringement of personal sovereignty. The government running the scheme and having all your data in real time is absolutely terrifying.</para>
<para>Senator Hanson and I tried to move a Senate inquiry into the referendum to enshrine freedom of speech in our Constitution—it was opposed. One Nation will repeal the digital ID and related bills. We will protect free speech, protect the rights of parents and defend the human rights of all Australians.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Forestry Industry</title>
          <page.no>4707</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:30</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKIM</name>
    <name.id>JKM</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate take note of the answer given by the Minister for Emergency Management (Senator McAllister) to a question without notice asked by Senator Hanson-Young today relating to native forest logging.</para></quote>
<para>Labor was elected to government on a promise to end the exemption that regional forest agreements have from Australia's environment laws. This exemption means that logging operations in places like Tasmania and New South Wales are not required to comply with Australia's Environment Protection and Biodiversity Conversation Act. That act is weak and not fit for purpose, but it is telling, indeed, that forestry conducted under regional forest agreements doesn't even have to comply with that pathetically weak piece of legislation.</para>
<para>We know that the mining industry gets away scot-free in terms of regulation in this country, but not even the mining industry enjoys a straight-out exemption from Australia's environment laws that the native forest logging industry enjoys. Remember, native forest logging destroys our precious, beautiful, globally unique forest. It is driving species like the swift parrot—a beautiful little creature that is the world's only migratory parrot, the fastest parrot in the world, which migrates between Tasmania and the south-east of the north island of Australia—into extinction. It is a mass emitter of carbon, contributing massively to climate breakdown, which in turn contributes to ecological collapse. Our native forests are stolen forests, rich in Aboriginal cultural heritage.</para>
<para>There are more reasons to stop logging native forests than any of us could possibly wish for, and it will be a popular thing to do. Eight out of 10 Labor voters want to see an end to native forest logging on public land. Six out of 10 Liberal voters want to see an end to the logging of native forest on public land. Australians want to see an end to native forest logging, and they want to see an end to the exemption that currently exists, which means that logging doesn't have to comply with Australia's environment laws. Labor, having gone to the last election promising that they would appeal that exemption, have walked that back. What the Greens are saying to the Labor Party is this: we will pass your pathetic excuse for improving our environment laws in this country if you commit to taking meaningful action to end native forest logging in Australia. The meaningful action that we are asking you to accept is what you promised to do before the last election, which is to end the loophole that exempts forestry operations from Australia's environment laws.</para>
<para>The time to end native forest logging is now. The numbers are here in this parliament to end native forest logging if only the Labor party would get with the program and do what they promised they would do before the last election and repeal the exemption—the loophole—that allows forestry operations in our native forests to be exempt from Australia's environment laws. This was recommended by Professor Graeme Samuel and was accepted by Labor. Labor promised they would deliver this before the last election. Then, as they have done on so many other issues, they walked back and broke the promise that they made solemnly to the Australian people before the last election.</para>
<para>The time to end native forest logging is now. If we end native forest logging now, we might have a chance to save the swift parrot. We could stop destroying koala habitat. We could stop destroying a range of other threatened species' habitats in some of the most beautiful, carbon-rich forests in the world. The reason we won't do it is that the forest industry has its political hooks in the Australian Labor Party, just like the fossil fuel corporations have.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>NOTICES</title>
        <page.no>4707</page.no>
        <type>NOTICES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Withdrawal</title>
          <page.no>4707</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:35</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DARMANIN</name>
    <name.id>301128</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Pursuant to notice on 10 October, I withdraw business of the Senate notices of motion No. 1 and No. 2, standing in my name for three sitting days after today, proposing the disallowance of the Online Safety (Relevant Electronic Services—Class 1A and Class 1B Material) Industry Standard 2024 and Online Safety (Designated Internet Services—Class 1A and Class 1B Material) Industry Standard 2024.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Presentation</title>
          <page.no>4707</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:36</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CHISHOLM</name>
    <name.id>39801</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I give notice that, on the next sitting day, I shall move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That, in accordance with section 5 of the <inline font-style="italic">Parliament Act </inline><inline font-style="italic">1974</inline>, the Senate approves the proposal for the National Capital Authority for capital works within the Parliamentary Zone, relating to the Senator Neville Bonner commemorative sculpture and associated works.</para></quote>
<para>I also present a proposal relating to the works.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Presentation</title>
          <page.no>4707</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>CONDOLENCES</title>
        <page.no>4710</page.no>
        <type>CONDOLENCES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Coulter, Dr John Richard</title>
          <page.no>4710</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:36</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Honourable senators, it is with deep regret that I inform the Senate of the death, on 6 September 2024, of John Richard Coulter, a senator for the state of South Australia from 1987 to 1995.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:37</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate records its sadness at the death, on 6 September 2024, of John Richard Coulter, former senator for South Australia, places on record its gratitude for his service to the Parliament and the nation, and tenders its sympathy to his family in their bereavement.</para></quote>
<para>I rise on behalf of the government to acknowledge the passing of the former senator from my home state and former Leader of the Australian Democrats, Dr John Richard Coulter, at the age of 93. I convey at the outset the government's condolences and my personal condolences to his family and his friends. I particularly acknowledge his daughter, Kiersten, and thank her for the material she has contributed towards this speech in memory of her father, which has enabled a more detailed understanding of his life and legacy. Similarly, I also acknowledge Natasha Stott Despoja, who succeeded him in the Senate and became also the Australian Democrats leader. I'm grateful for the reflections she's shared with me in the preparation of these remarks.</para>
<para>John Coulter was a politician driven by principle, a man who hails politically from South Australia and, I like to think, who is another exemplar of a political tradition that I hope spans parties from South Australia—of decency and taking a considered approach to politics. John Coulter brought his passion for the environment and science, for the voices of Indigenous Australians and against the nuclear fuel cycle to the Senate. He did so at a time when his political party sat at the fulcrum of Australian politics. Whilst it is over 16 years since an Australian Democrat senator sat in in place, between 1980 and 2005 the party either shared or held the balance of power in its own right. As senator and leader, John Coulter sought to leverage this position to pursue the values that sustained him both before and after his parliamentary career. As Natasha Stott Despoja said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">He was a critical thinker, an intellectual, but not afraid to get his hands dirty, literally while tending to an orchard or protesting in the streets.</para></quote>
<para>Born in Western Australia in 1930, John Coulter arrived in South Australia in the late 1940s, having transferred to commence a degree in medicine at the University of Adelaide. His primary career ambition was in medical research, and after practising as a general practitioner, including as a locum in remote areas, he gained employment with the Institute of Medical and Veterinary Science in 1958. His research ultimately led him to investigate petrochemicals used in agriculture and household chemicals, identifying potentially mutagenic and carcinogenic agents. He stood against fierce opposition to exposing these chemicals, their manufacturers and the dangers they posed to people and the environment. On this, he seemed well ahead of his time.</para>
<para>He was also active in a range of environmental and conservation campaigns and organisations, as well as in local government. He was affiliated with what we know as the con council, the Conservation Council of South Australia—of which he was a founding member and later president—the Australian Conservation Foundation, the Underwater Research Group, the Town and Country Planning Association, and what later became Sustainable Population Australia.</para>
<para>John Coulter was elected to the Senate as an Australian Democrats senator in 1987, and he was part of a vanguard of environmentalist politicians, of which party founder Don Chipp was another. In his first speech, and in many that followed, he warned of the impact of human activity, particularly carbon dioxide, on the earth's atmosphere. He exhorted fellow senators to recognise the impact of human activity on finite resources, just as he had campaigned for decades and would continue to as a senator. Throughout his time in the chamber, familiar themes recurred—his advocacy against Australian involvement in the nuclear fuel cycle and his advocacy for conservation, such as his private senator's bill to ban the importation of logs, sawn timber, veneer and plywood from primary tropical rainforests. He similarly introduced legislation to introduce controls on the use of chlorofluorocarbons and in 1995 proposed that the Keating government introduce a carbon tax.</para>
<para>In other areas he leveraged the position of the Australian Democrats to secure amendments to government legislation. When he spoke, he did so with the benefit of a genuine scientific background. He brought the rigour of this training and this insight—not unique, but certainly not widespread amongst senators—to key debates, such as the one on the patenting of genetic material. Whilst gains were made on genetic privacy, legislating to prevent the patenting of genes and gene sequences remains a challenge for the parliament.</para>
<para>Dr John Coulter was also a clear and consistent advocate for a voice and self-determination for Indigenous Australians. His daughter, Kiersten, reflected that in the week of his passing, he said that he believed his most important legacy from his time in the Senate was his role in supporting the establishment of ATSIC, the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Commission, and a voice for Indigenous Australians directly into the parliament.</para>
<para>In 1991, he won a membership ballot and became the leader of the Australian Democrats. He weathered a difficult period as the Australian Democrats rebuilt after a period of change and attempted to communicate an environmental message at a time of economic recession. Still, he found ways to bring issues of significance onto the national agenda, sometimes creatively. In 1992, his campaign to make the bilby the Australian substitute for the Easter bunny was the source of considerable publicity. Over three decades later, we still enjoy our chocolate bilbies in South Australia at Easter.</para>
<para>In addition to advocacy for threatened species, he led the charge against the export of hazardous waste and for the protection of inland water supplies, as well as the protection of the Great Barrier Reef. It is worth recalling that the Australian Democrats used their position in the balance of power in the early nineties to act as key protagonists in many of the procedural reforms that give the Australian Senate its modern character. In 1992, he also became the first Australian Democrats senator to chair a select committee, into the Australian Loan Council. By pushing the limits of the committee's power to call witnesses, he prompted the infamous characterisation of the Senate by the then prime minister as 'unrepresentative swill'. Perhaps that's something else to add to his legacy!</para>
<para>Natasha Stott Despoja gave me some insight into what Dr Coulter was like as a boss. She underwent what she described as 'the most rigorous job interview ever' and gained employment on Dr Coulter's staff. She recalled how he invested in her political talents. His office was a place of trust and of commitment to expertise, Dr Coulter having assembled a team of like-minded people driven by research and evidence, reflecting his desire to bring together people of both sound intellect and analytical abilities. But, as Natasha Stott Despoja tells it, he was quirky and funny, considerate and kind, and liked a joke too—including about himself as a member of the socks-and-sandals brigade!</para>
<para>Having been defeated in the mandatory party leadership ballot following the 1993 federal election, John Coulter continued to serve until retiring from the Senate in 1995. He was replaced by Natasha Stott Despoja. She recalled his enthusiasm for her candidacy, saying:</para>
<quote><para class="block">He supported my ascension and was excited to see me become the youngest woman to enter the parliament. It was an honour to fill his vacancy: my political aspirations were hugely supported by him.</para></quote>
<para>John Coulter's retirement did not herald a retreat, and he continued to actively pursue those causes that had consumed his energy prior to and during his years as a senator. One personal passion that continued also was his Adelaide Hills property in my duty electorate of Mayo. In 1972 he bought a denuded 70-acre property at Bradbury that he worked to rehabilitate to its natural bush state for over fifty years. Decades of work led to him successfully transacting a heritage agreement with the South Australian government in 2015-16, which should guarantee there can be no future clearing, grazing or other use of the land other than for the full enjoyment of it preserved and maintained in its natural state. This property is now 80 to 90 per cent covered in natural vegetation, including rare and endangered native flora indigenous to that area of the hills. Sadly, it was burnt out to some extent in the 2019 Cherry Gardens bushfire. Efforts to manage the recovery of the property led to a wider group of like-minded neighbours forming the Bradbury Conservancy, which seeks to rehabilitate and protect a wider parcel of land. Dr Coulter said of the property, 'It's a microcosm of how we should live with nature and not against nature.' He remained living there and managing the property right up until weeks before his death.</para>
<para>John Coulter will be remembered by family and friends at a celebration of his life this coming weekend. It will take place at the property in the Adelaide Hills that he loved so much and nurtured so well. It is fitting for someone who devoted his life to conservation and the environment that this regenerated landscape will be a legacy that lasts into the future for generations to come. It is a monument to his passionate pursuit of practical change and meaningful change and his optimism for what can be achieved through dedication to a cause and a coherent philosophy.</para>
<para>In closing, I again express my personal condolences and those of the government following his passing to his friends and his family.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:48</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise on behalf of the opposition to join with the Leader of the Government in the Senate in supporting her motion and her fine words honouring the life and paying tribute to the work of Dr John Richard Coulter—senator, leader, scientist, researcher, environmentalist, campaigner and, above all, a dignified man of thought and evidence.</para>
<para>John Coulter was born on 3 December 1930 in Perth to John and Constance Coulter. Completing his education at Wesley College, he went on to study medicine, as we've heard, at the University of Adelaide in South Australia, graduating in 1956, taking residency at the Royal Adelaide Hospital and then becoming a surgical research officer at the Institute of Medical and Veterinary Science. It was his early medical research delving into the impact of toxins which set John on his path to a lifelong dedication to medical research and environmental advocacy and which saw him advance issues well ahead of their general acceptance across politics, policy or community debate. John was to join, drive, lead and contribute to a number of South Australia's conservation bodies from very early in his career, holding positions that would shape and influence the state's planning and policy landscape and, indeed, no doubt, driving and informing his desire to enter and influence politics.</para>
<para>Like Senator Wong, I too had some correspondence and communication with former Senator Natasha Stott-Despoja to better understand aspects of John's life and his contribution. Natasha shared with me her mum, Shirley, recalling attending a protest against a tree-felling with John, which she assumed from the way her mum told the story must have dated back to before the time that Natasha was even born. John's environmental advocacy was to be a hallmark of the life he led, but it was not just advocacy, because, as Senator Wong has said, he was a man true to his words and lived the deeds of his words.</para>
<para>He was to join the Australian Democrats in 1980. John backed and supported those Democrats' campaigns for upper house seats by contesting, firstly, a South Australian House of Assembly seat in 1982 and then the House of Representatives seat of Boothby in 1983. They're often thankless tasks, particularly for minority party candidates, but a demonstration of commitment to achieve the outcome and influence that those minor parties seek. Such is the unpredictability of politics that John was selected for what was thought to be a fairly unwinnable position on the Senate ticket at the double dissolution election of July 1987 called by the Hawke government. He ended up being one of seven Democrat senators elected in 1987. In South Australia, he was elected as the second Democrat to their then leader Janine Haines and the 12th of 12 senators to be elected from South Australia at that time. From then on, John was to have a solid career in the Senate, and for throughout his entire career the Democrats would retain the balance of power in the Senate.</para>
<para>John was certainly an active member of the Senate, known for introducing multiple bills, particularly those aimed at protecting the environment. But it wasn't just specific to the environment; he would campaign relentlessly on matters that impacted the environment, as he saw it, such as Australia's population growth policies and what he contested to be sustainable levels of population, or, indeed, the measures of GDP that are applied and economic analysis that he saw—and contested—subverted or impacted upon the consideration of effective environmental effects.</para>
<para>John Coulter was to serve as deputy leader of his party and then as leader of the Democrats through—as Senator Wong indicated—a more trying period for a party that, until then, had enjoyed a very rapid rise in its success and influence. What is one of the many notable things about John Coulter is that he brought a significant level of expertise to the Senate. He was able to use that ability to affect policy outcomes and to influence political discussions. He was to establish the very first significant Senate inquiry into climate change, which, as we've heard, called for the introduction of a carbon tax, back in 1995, arguing that funds from that would be used to develop energy efficient industries. As the Democrats environment spokesman, he spoke out about arguments in favour of protecting Australia's old growth forests and wilderness. He warned of the risks of pollution of fresh water posed by industry, agriculture and urban waste. One of his passions, also, was to work on trying to get states and, indeed, Australia to secure water planes for fire emergencies. Perhaps it was his base in the Adelaide Hills that informed that. At the time, it was not something taken seriously, yet today, of course, it is something Australians would not live without.</para>
<para>As we have heard, John Coulter also advocated for the endangered bilby, not just as an endangered species, but, in a novel campaign to raise awareness of the bilby, he sought it to be a symbol of Australian Easter, rather than the environmentally destructive introduced species of rabbit. His legacy well and truly lives on there, from the delightful Haigh's bilbies that we in South Australia love to share. He was active in that promotion, particularly across this place, circulating of the bilbies through the federal parliament each and every year, and the tradition was continued by his successor in the Senate, Natasha Stott Despoja.</para>
<para>John would also apply that medical and scientific research to his work and his thinking, leading arguments to pursue nation-leading legislation, including on the ethics of cloning and challenging the patenting of genes and sequences. Natasha reflected to me, as I suspect to Senator Wong, that she would love to see that prevention of the patenting of genes and gene sequences pursued as a fitting tribute to a pioneer and senator like John Coulter.</para>
<para>In 1995 John made the decision to resign from the Senate due to his ongoing health issues at the time. His vacancy would be filled by Natasha, and, indeed, Natasha was to receive a gift that she says she treasures to this day from John—a copy of <inline font-style="italic">The Prophet</inline> inscribed by John with the excerpt, 'Yesterday is but today's memory and tomorrow is today's dream.' It is a kind gift that she said was designed to inspire her to keep working for a fairer, greener world. Indeed, they are words that all in this place could and should treasure and reflect upon.</para>
<para>We have heard how John liked to judge people on their intellect and their analytical capabilities. A scientist and scholar as well as a pioneering environmentalist, whether as leader of a political party in the Australian Senate or as a councillor on the Campbelltown council or as president of the Conservation Council of South Australia, Dr John Coulter made the most of every opportunity he had to advocate for our precious environment and for the society he saw as important to preserve and protect. This is John's legacy. He was one of those unique individuals who will be remembered for his fierce and unwavering commitment to his beliefs and for campaigning on those issues, not only within the parliament but beyond, and for living true to those campaigns. His contributions were always thoughtful, always respectful, always considered, always deliberative and constructive.</para>
<para>On behalf of the opposition and the Australian Senate, to John's loved ones—his daughter, Kiersten, and stepchildren, Graham, Debbie and Gwendolynne: we extend our sincere condolences and pay tribute to his great contribution to this place and our nation.</para>
<para>Question agreed to, honourable senators joining in a moment of silence.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Quick, Mr Harry Vernon</title>
          <page.no>4714</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:58</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>It is with deep regret that I inform the Senate of the death on 19 October 2024 of Harry Vernon Quick, a former member of the House of Representatives for the division of Franklin, Tasmania, from 1993 to 2007.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>NOTICES</title>
        <page.no>4714</page.no>
        <type>NOTICES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Withdrawal</title>
          <page.no>4714</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:59</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ASKEW</name>
    <name.id>281558</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>At the request of Senator Dean Smith, I withdraw general business notice of motion No. 577 for 27 November 2024.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Postponement</title>
          <page.no>4714</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:00</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>If there is no objection, the business is postponed.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>4714</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Reporting Date</title>
          <page.no>4714</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BUSINESS</title>
        <page.no>4714</page.no>
        <type>BUSINESS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Leave of Absence</title>
          <page.no>4714</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:01</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator THORPE</name>
    <name.id>280304</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That leave of absence be granted to Senator Thorpe for the following dates, for personal reasons:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) 4 to 14 September 2023;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) 4 December 2023;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) 19 March 2024; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(d) 27 June 2024.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>4714</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Australian Competition and Consumer Commission</title>
          <page.no>4714</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>4714</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:02</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ASKEW</name>
    <name.id>281558</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>At the request of Senator Dean Smith, I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That there be laid on the table by the Minister representing the Treasurer, by no later than midday on 4 December 2024, all written or digital correspondence, briefing notes, file notes, meeting notes, meeting agendas or minutes, or other records of interaction from 30 June to 18 November 2024 between:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC) and the Assistant Treasurer and Minister for Financial Services or their office;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) the ACCC and the Treasury; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) the Treasury and the Assistant Treasurer and Minister for Financial Services or their office;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">in relation to the Government's response to, and implementation of, all recommendations of the ACCC's fifth interim report for the digital platform services inquiry, provided to the Treasurer on 30 September 2022.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Department of Infrastructure, Transport, Regional Development, Communications and the Arts</title>
          <page.no>4715</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>4715</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:02</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LAMBIE</name>
    <name.id>250026</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) the Senate notes that:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) on 8 August 2024, access to documents dealing with gambling reform was sought from the Department of Infrastructure, Transport, Regional Development and the Arts (the department) under the <inline font-style="italic">Freedom of Information Act 1982</inline> (the FOI Act),</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) on 8 October 2024, the department responded to that freedom of information (FOI) request, advising that 22 documents had been identified, with access refused in full to 4 of the documents based on section 47(C) of the FOI Act, a public interest conditional exemption relating to deliberative processes, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(iii) the Senate is not subject to such deliberative process exemptions; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) there be laid on the table by the Minister representing the Minister for Communications, by 2 pm on Thursday, 21 November 2024, the following documents:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) the proposed wagering advertising reform model, dated 8 August 2024, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) the wagering advertising reform consultation—schedule of questions, dated 30 July 2024.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:02</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CHISHOLM</name>
    <name.id>39801</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a short statement.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CHISHOLM</name>
    <name.id>39801</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Since receiving the online gambling inquiry report, the government has engaged comprehensively and regularly with stakeholders. As part of the government's broader consideration of further reforms, we are currently consulting with key stakeholders on a proposed model for online wagering advertising reform, prior to a decision being made. The proposed model focuses on breaking the nexus that exists between wagering in sport, minimising the exposure of children to online wagering harm and tackling the saturation and targeting of wagering ads. The consultation process has been thorough and valuable and has raised additional considerations that the government is working through. Accordingly, the proposed model has not been finalised and is still subject to the cabinet decision-making process. There will always be a combination of private and public consultations on any given proposal. Once the government announces a policy or introduces a bill, it will be subject to all the scrutiny advocacy that we expect in a democracy, including all the usual parliamentary processes.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question before the Senate is that the order for production of documents concerning wagering advertising reforms standing in the name of Senator Lambie be agreed to.</para>
<para> </para>
<para> </para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [16:08]<br />(The Deputy President—Senator McLachlan)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>43</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Antic, A.</name>
                  <name>Askew, W. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Babet, R.</name>
                  <name>Bragg, A. J.</name>
                  <name>Brockman, W. E.</name>
                  <name>Canavan, M. J.</name>
                  <name>Cash, M. C.</name>
                  <name>Chandler, C.</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                  <name>Cox, D.</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, D. J.</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                  <name>Henderson, S. M.</name>
                  <name>Hodgins-May, S.</name>
                  <name>Hughes, H. A.</name>
                  <name>Hume, J.</name>
                  <name>Kovacic, M.</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J.</name>
                  <name>Liddle, K. J.</name>
                  <name>McDonald, S. E.</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J.</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B.</name>
                  <name>McKim, N. J.</name>
                  <name>Nampijinpa Price, J. S.</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, M. A.</name>
                  <name>Payman, F.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                  <name>Rennick, G.</name>
                  <name>Reynolds, L. K.</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M. I.</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A.</name>
                  <name>Scarr, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Sharma, D. N.</name>
                  <name>Shoebridge, D.</name>
                  <name>Smith, D. A.</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Thorpe, L. A.</name>
                  <name>Tyrrell, T. M.</name>
                  <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, P. S.</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>19</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                  <name>Bilyk, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A.</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                  <name>Darmanin, L.</name>
                  <name>Ghosh, V.</name>
                  <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                  <name>Grogan, K.</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M.</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Polley, H.</name>
                  <name>Pratt, L. C.</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                  <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                  <name>Stewart, J. N. A.</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, A. E. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>5</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D. E.</name>
                  <name>Birmingham, S. J.</name>
                  <name>Wong, P.</name>
                  <name>Cadell, R.</name>
                  <name>Watt, M. P.</name>
                  <name>Davey, P. M.</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                  <name>Paterson, J. W.</name>
                  <name>Gallagher, K. R.</name>
                </names>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to. </p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division></subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>4716</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Intelligence and Security Joint Committee</title>
          <page.no>4716</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Reference</title>
            <page.no>4716</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:10</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LAMBIE</name>
    <name.id>250026</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the following matter be referred to the Parliamentary Joint Committee on Intelligence and Security for inquiry and report by 10 February 2025:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The possible listing of Hizb ut-Tahrir as a terrorist organisation.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:11</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CHISHOLM</name>
    <name.id>39801</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a short statement.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CHISHOLM</name>
    <name.id>39801</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The government does not support the motion moved by Senator Lambie. The government condemns the hateful comments made by members of Hizb ut-Tahrir. There is no place in Australia for such disgraceful statements or the glorification of terrorism. There are a range of offences in the Criminal Code that target conduct which promotes or advocates extremism, including offences for advocating terrorism, and urging violence against groups or individuals on the basis of their race, religion or nationality. A decision to prescribe an organisation as a terrorist organisation under the Criminal Code Act 1995 is made on advice from our intelligence and security agencies, not by our parliamentary committee.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question before the Senate is that the motion standing in the name of Senator Lambie be agreed to.</para>
<para> </para>
<para> </para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [16:13]<br />(The Deputy President—Senator McLachlan)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>4</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Lambie, J. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                  <name>Rennick, G.</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M. I.</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>43</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Antic, A.</name>
                  <name>Askew, W. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                  <name>Bilyk, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Canavan, M. J.</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A.</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                  <name>Cox, D.</name>
                  <name>Darmanin, L.</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, D. J.</name>
                  <name>Ghosh, V.</name>
                  <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                  <name>Grogan, K.</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                  <name>Hodgins-May, S.</name>
                  <name>Hume, J.</name>
                  <name>Liddle, K. J.</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M.</name>
                  <name>McDonald, S. E.</name>
                  <name>McKim, N. J.</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                  <name>Polley, H.</name>
                  <name>Pratt, L. C.</name>
                  <name>Reynolds, L. K.</name>
                  <name>Scarr, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Sharma, D. N.</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                  <name>Shoebridge, D.</name>
                  <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                  <name>Stewart, J. N. A.</name>
                  <name>Thorpe, L. A.</name>
                  <name>Tyrrell, T. M.</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, A. E.</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                  <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, P. S.</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names />
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division></subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>4717</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Department of Social Services</title>
          <page.no>4717</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>4717</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:16</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LIDDLE</name>
    <name.id>300644</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to amend general business notice of motion No. 659 relating to an order for the production of documents.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LIDDLE</name>
    <name.id>300644</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I move the motion as amended:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That there be laid on the table by the Minister representing the Minister for Social Services, by no later than 5 pm on Monday, 25 November 2024, a list of grant activities that did not carry over when the previous National Plan to Reduce Violence Against Women and Children 2010-2022 was replaced by the current National Plan to End Violence Against Women and Children 2022-2032.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Department of Climate Change, Energy, the Environment and Water</title>
          <page.no>4717</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>4717</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:17</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHOEBRIDGE</name>
    <name.id>169119</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) That there be laid on the table by the Minister representing the Minister for the Environment and Water, by no later than 5 pm on Wednesday, 27 November 2024:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) all documents relied upon for the decision relating to Environment Protection and Biodiversity Conservation number 2020/8704; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) all related correspondence between:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) the Department of Climate Change, Energy, the Environment and Water (the department) and Ozy Homes Pty Ltd,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) the department and Manyana Coast Pty Ltd,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(iii) the Minister for the Environment and Water and Ozy Homes Pty Ltd, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(iv) the Minster for the Environment and Water and Manyana Coast Pty Ltd.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) That once received by the Clerk or the President, documents returned and any correspondence responding to the order shall be deemed to have been presented to the Senate, and publication of the documents is authorised.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>MATTERS OF URGENCY</title>
        <page.no>4718</page.no>
        <type>MATTERS OF URGENCY</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Cybersafety</title>
          <page.no>4718</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:17</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I inform the Senate that the President has received the following letter, dated 18 November, from Senator Roberts:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Pursuant to standing order 75, I give notice that today I propose to move "That, in the opinion of the Senate, the following is a matter of urgency:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The need to recognise that a blanket ban on social media for children under 16 expropriates parental power, and for the Senate to affirm that parental responsibility rests in the parents, not the Federal Government."</para></quote>
<para>Is the proposal supported?</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">More than the number of senators required by the standing orders having risen in their places—</inline></para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>With the concurrence of the Senate, the clerks will set the clock in line with the informal arrangements made by the whips.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:18</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ROBERTS</name>
    <name.id>266524</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That, in the opinion of the Senate, the following is a matter of urgency:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The need to recognise that a blanket ban on social media for children under 16 expropriates parental power, and for the Senate to affirm that parental responsibility rests in the parents, not the Federal Government. The government is proposing a ban on children under 16 accessing social media and justifies the measure because it's supposedly popular. Oh, really? It's ironic that the same parties who accuse One Nation of populism are now promoting a measure not because it's workable but, rather, because it's supposedly popular.</para></quote>
<para>A true conservative, though, would support parents supervising their own children in their own home. That's not what Mr Peter Dutton is doing. A true conservative opposition leader would not be promoting big government replacing parents. Instead, he would be making device supervision easier for parents.</para>
<para>The government repeatedly is giving more power to social media giants under the guise, they say, of transparency. They're not revealing anything. We still don't see the algorithms of the social media giants—international players who have control over our space. What we're doing is not making device supervision easier for parents. We're not making it easier for parents to fulfil their responsibilities as parents. It's time that social media companies—plus Apple, Microsoft and Android—made their parental locks easier and more powerful. So let's start there.</para>
<para>No country in the world has made age limits work, because bureaucrats or social media platforms in far-off countries can't see who's using the computer or phone. The only people who can see what the child is doing with their device are the people in their home with them—the parents. It's a parental duty, a parental responsibility and a parental right to raise their children and to supervise their children. If this proposal from the government goes through, parents allowing their children to watch cartoons and educational shows on free-to-view social media, including YouTube, would be breaking the law. Parents supervising their children would be breaking the law. Watching the same material on Foxtel at $99 a month would be legal. Does that seem right? To me it doesn't.</para>
<para>Essential and YouGov polling showed a majority of Australians support higher age restrictions on social media. This is the same Essential poll which found 17-year-olds should be able to buy alcohol and watch pornography and also recommended the age for criminal responsibility be raised to 14. Who did they ask? Are these next in the uniparty's embrace of populism? My speech earlier today gave information on the unintended consequences of this idea. I will post the speeches together on my website. This problem is as old as the internet, and it's not going anywhere. Let parents parent. That's fundamental to raising children.</para>
<para>We're seeing the opportunity in education now. States and the federal education department, which doesn't have a single school, allow indoctrination programs through the national curriculum. Instead of being education, it's now indoctrination. They're grooming young children for the globalist agenda. They terrorise children: 'The climate is changing. The globe is boiling. The world will end. You've only got five years to live unless we do something.' These are the terrorists for young children today—the globalists who are pushing this agenda and this legislation around the world.</para>
<para>One Nation supports this matter being referred to a Senate inquiry, where technology experts can testify on the harms and unintended consequences of replacing parental supervision with government overreach and government control. We need to let parents parent. Instead of giving more power to the globalist corporations and to the internet behemoths, we need to put the power back with parents and let parents look after their children. As I said before, it is a parental duty, a parental responsibility and a parental right. I am sick and tired, and so are so many parents and grandparents across this country, of the government trying to be a nanny state to protect their kids all while grooming their children for control, whether directly through education or indirectly through social media. What we need to do is actually look at what people need and then act accordingly. One Nation is not in favour of this. We are surprised that the Liberal Party, including their leader, seem to be lining up in support of censoring teens on the internet.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:23</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator MARIELLE SMITH</name>
    <name.id>281603</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>As a parent and as a legislator, I see absolutely nothing wrong with government working in partnership with parents, with families and with the community to keep children safe. Actually, I think it's a fundamental responsibility of government to do everything we can and to pull every lever we can to keep children safe. We know at the moment, when it comes to their online engagement, that children are not safe online, whether that's in terms of the things they're exposed to or in terms of the way certain things are marketed to them, whether that goes to bullying online or to the prolificness of eating disorders and other mental health challenges. We know that our children are not safe online. There is no issue raised more with me by parents in my community than this one. Parents are desperate to keep their children safe, but they feel like this has become too big for them to manage in their homes, and they want the backing and support of the federal government. They want us to do something about this.</para>
<para>We have an opportunity and a chance as a government to say, 'Yes, we see these harms exist; yes, we know these things are hurting our children; yes, we see this is increasing bullying; yes, we see this is increasing eating disorders; and yes, we see that this is causing so much damage to our youngest minds, and we can do something about it.' I think that is a good thing for federal governments to do. In so many other areas of children's safety and supporting children, we expect government, whether it be our state governments or our federal governments, to work in partnership with parents and to work in partnership with families to keep children safe. We cannot be any clearer that, at the moment, they are not safe online. I think this is fundamentally the right thing to do. Parents tell me that they want us to do it—that they want us to reinforce the decisions they are taking in their own homes. They are doing everything they feel they can do to keep their children safe online.</para>
<para>Recent research tells us that the majority of young parents are concerned about the impact of social media on their child's mental health and wellbeing and that 85 per cent of parents have had conflicts with their children over their use of social media. While this is incredibly stressful and concerning for parents, the most severe impacts are on children. We know that one in five young women have had a sexual image of themselves shared without their permission. A recent Australian study has found that the average age of a child's first exposure to pornography is 13.2 for boys and 14.1 for girls.</para>
<para>When I was part of the select committee into social media, I heard about the harmful content that kids are being exposed to online, and eSafeKids told us this content was mainstream, with 62 per cent of young people aged 14 to 17 in Australia exposed to harmful content online. The eSafety Commissioner made clear to us that bullying is a significant concern for younger generations and that much of this happens online. According to the Butterfly Foundation, of the 95 per cent of young people who reported some level of concern about their body image, 62 per cent felt dissatisfied due to social media, and nearly half said body dissatisfaction prevented them from attending school.</para>
<para>We know that children are hurting. We know that this is not good for our kids. We know overwhelmingly—I know overwhelmingly—that parents want us to do something about it. Of course, the ultimate responsibility for our children's safety lies with parents. Every one of us who is a parent knows that. As a parent, it is all you think about all day and all night: How can I keep my children safe? Is there something I'm missing? Is there something I'm failing to do which means my kids are at risk and my kids are going to be exposed to harm? You start feeling that from the moment you're pregnant, and it never leaves you.</para>
<para>We know at the moment parents are worried. We know they feel there is something which is not within their power to control which presents an unacceptable risk of harm to their children. But it is in our control in this chamber. It is in our control to regulate this, to stand with families, to stand with parents and, ultimately, to stand with the young people who are most at risk of harm here. We do it in so many other areas of children's safety. State governments do it. Federal governments do it. This is a new frontier and a new thing for us to navigate, but it is the right thing to do. We have an opportunity to keep our children safer and to stand with parents in that effort, which can feel colossal at times. That's not taking away parental responsibility; that's reinforcing it.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:28</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHARMA</name>
    <name.id>274506</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I welcome the opportunity to speak on Senator Roberts's motion today because it is an important and topical issue. I must confess that I approach this issue as someone who is a liberal—that is, someone who supports the rights of individuals to manage their own affairs, who instinctively mistrusts or dislikes the government interfering in the private lives of individuals and who trusts parents to make their own choices about raising their children, the values they should instil in them and the sorts of technology they should have access to. I approach the issue of regulating access to anything in people's private lives as a sceptic. But I cannot—and I don't think you can—fail to read Jonathan Haidt's <inline font-style="italic">The Anxious Generation</inline> without being concerned about some of the quite deleterious impacts and at least a high degree of correlation, if not causation, proved between widespread use of social media amongst younger people and social harm.</para>
<para>In his book, Jonathan Haidt talks about four foundational harms. He talks about social deprivation—that is, children being excluded or missing out from social circles or social opportunities because of the ability for people to organise on social media. He talks about sleep deprivation. The straight addictiveness of certain social media and the desire to always get the next dopamine hit, to see the next message, to see the next post and to see how your own posting is trafficking can lead to children staying up all night and staying on their phones.</para>
<para>There's attention fragmentation. There's, again, the inability to focus on longer term tasks, to do things like read a book, for instance, and even to sit down and watch a movie. If you have young children, you'll know that they're often grabbing for their device to have something that ups their dopamine or attention levels. Indeed, as we all know, we are programmed as humans to be super alert to changes in our environment and incoming pieces of information, which means we are incentivised, psychologically and neurologically, to prioritise newer, novel information over something else we might be doing. Then, of course, there are the addictive properties of social media.</para>
<para>I think it's been well documented and well understood by most people intuitively that social media can supercharge ostracisation and humiliation—especially a problem amongst girls—and that it can lead to behaviours like audience capture, which is you as a social media persona trying to exacerbate the characteristics that seem to be popular with your audience, and prestige bias, which is modelling your behaviour on those who seem to enjoy high social status on social media and whose posts or profiles get high engagement or high content. There are even what people refer to as sociogenic epidemics. It's the idea that there is a viral character to depression, anxiety and mental health, and the ability for it to spread through society can be supercharged by the use of social media.</para>
<para>I think, on balance, the evidence is that social media is not making our children's lives better. It would be difficult to make that case. I think that the evidence, on balance, suggests it's probably making it worse—from the more benign impacts, like irritability, distraction and social ostracism, to some of the more sinister ones, like the development of eating disorders, incessant online bullying, self-harm and suicidal ideation. I think most parents tend to know or intuit this, but they face obstacles in dealing with this themselves. If they take away their children's phone or disable access to their phone, they're worried about isolating their children, because every other child is on the phone, and they're worried about their children missing out on social opportunities and conversations. Even if they do cross that Rubicon, it can be difficult to manage. Parents quite rightly want their children to have phones these days to stay in touch and to let them know where they are. Children are ingenious and very clever at getting around any screen time limitations, app bans or anything else. It's a collective action problem. No parent tends to want to act alone on this, but they would welcome some assistance from government.</para>
<para>That is why I think, on balance, this is the right thing to be doing. I think we need to be careful, firstly, to protect privacy and identity, and I respect that Senator Roberts has legitimate concerns in that regard, which other senators here will share, but also unintended consequences. We don't want to cut children off from sources of information and their ability to feed their curiosity. But I do believe this is an area this parliament should be addressing.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:33</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BABET</name>
    <name.id>300706</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I'm here to call out big government and to expose its encroachment into the lives of Australian parents and their kids. I get it: social media is a double-edged sword. On one hand, it can potentially cause harm to children but, on the other hand, it's also entertaining, informative and educational.</para>
<para>Could it be that the whole reason we're trying so hard to ban social media for under-16s is so that they don't get exposed to alternate points of view that the schooling system or this big government that we have here today don't want them to see? Social media: it's a way to stay in touch with the people that you love. Should under-16s be able to access it? Obviously, it depends on many factors. Who is best placed to make that decision? It is their parents. Not only are mums and dads the best people to raise their kids but it is also their right and their responsibility to do so without overreach from the government.</para>
<para>The government's insistence on doing the job of parents by blanket banning under-16s from social media is massive overreach—massive. It undermines the primacy of parents in their children's lives. It's not the state's responsibility or roleto go around telling under-16s if they can have friends on TikTok, what family photos they can see on Instagram or what news they can view on X. Those decisions are for parents. Any argument to the contrary is a gross violation of parental responsibility and represents a massive intrusion of the state. I am in this place to empower parents, not to replace parents. I'm in this place to strengthen the family unit, not to replace or undermine it.</para>
<para>My mission is to get government out of all of our lives. I hate the government. It is too big. It is too bloated. Enough! For that reason, I'm asking my colleagues in this place to recognise that a government-imposed blanket ban on social media for under-16s comes at the expense of parents and privacy. The argument over the ability of young people to access social media sites is ultimately an argument about content and it's an argument about parental rights, and parental rights must be sacrosanct.</para>
<para>Now, some parents don't want their children on social media—and rightly so. I don't disagree. But those parents are perfectly capable of not providing a smart phone to their kids. They're also perfectly capable of saying no to their own children—just as the Australian people will undoubtedly say no to this government at the ballot box in 2025. Other parents, whose teenagers may be more mature or able to exercise discretion, will be perfectly happy for their teens to be on social media. As so often happens when a state tries to do what individual citizens should themselves be trusted to do, the government solution only creates more problems. Age verification for under-16s becomes age verification for everybody. How will they know who's under 16 if they can't prove the age of those who are over 16? The ban is fast becoming a national social media age-verification scheme. How else would they enforce it? Could this be used as a lever to increase eventual digital ID uptake? How will they punish offenders? The problems with this proposed legislation are legion.</para>
<para>But that's what happens when the government tries to do what parents can and should be empowered to do. Parental responsibility rests with parents, not with an overbearing federal government. Obviously, I'm going to ask my fellow senators to join me in affirming that principle. I'm going to ask them to reject big daddy government. I'm going to ask them to make parenting great again. But you know what? I don't think they will, and that's a real problem.</para>
<para>People at home, pay attention. Your governments are authoritarian. The opposition are acting like authoritarians as well. Reject these people and their ideas at the next election. Choose freedom instead. Choose the ability to make your own decisions.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:38</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator TYRRELL</name>
    <name.id>300639</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I can't tell you how many times I've spoken about my opposition to a blanket ban on social media in the past week. As Senator Roberts rightly points out, legislation that bans social media altogether takes away the opportunity for parents to decide when they think their child is ready to use social media and which platforms they can sign up to, plus it takes away a parent's opportunity to teach their children how to use these platforms.</para>
<para>Parents know best how their children tick. I'm a parent. I thought about how I used social media and how my kids might use it. Don't get me wrong, I had the same concerns as parents have now about online content and what they would access. But, when I thought the time was right for them—and for me—I helped my kids set up most social media accounts, and together we worked out how they could use them. They're grown up now, but I believe those early lessons on what to do and what not to do on social media set them up for making good choices down the track. That was my choice as a parent for my children. Taking away that choice is not going to help our kids.</para>
<para>Look, I know there are good intentions behind an imposed ban. I agree there are huge issues around the kinds of content children and teens have been able to access online and how social media platforms can impact their mental health. But, as I said over and over again, a ban isn't the answer; a ban is not going to stop kids accessing social platforms. Trust me: they are clever enough to find ways around any roadblocks put in their way. And a ban doesn't actually address the problems young people are facing online. Has anyone in the government asked our kids what is best for them? If they had, I'm sure they would have been told this is not the silver-bullet solution they think it is. What worries me is that by trying to keep kids safe, you will just create other problems.</para>
<para>Think about how important social media is for some groups. These platforms are a lifeline for many kids living in remote areas or those who can't leave their homes or those who are sick and stuck in hospital for extended periods. It's the way they connect with their friends. It's the way they keep up with what's going on outside. For these kids, going online is their passport to the rest of the world. Good social media access should start with education. When I say 'education', I mean the good in social media, the bad and all that comes in between. The child's education should start with the parent, not the government, and that is a fundamental right when you become a parent. When you conceive, adopt or foster, you treat your children in a manner that you want to raise them.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:41</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PAYMAN</name>
    <name.id>300707</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Australian government are trying to regulate an internet that they do not understand. The most obvious evidence of this was a line from Minister Rowland's speech at the Sydney Institute last week. The minister in a speech no doubt pored over by her sage advisers said, 'In 1985, Bill Gates brought us the Microsoft operating system.' For the benefit of those not as learned as Minister Rowland, Microsoft is the company; Windows is the operating system. The government's proposal to outlaw social media for kids under 16 is the legislative equivalent of this ill-considered speech.</para>
<para>The government has two options when it comes to age verification and assurance. The first option, verification using biometrics like face scanning, will make the ban a joke. The only effect of this version of the ban will be to create a new household phrase: 'Mum, can I scan your face?' The other option is to use ID to verify age. This will require every Australian on almost every social media platform to provide ID, which will need to be stored for an unknown period idea of time. In an age of unceasing data breaches, we need to store less personal information online, not more. Remember Optus and Medibank? How will the government stop kids using VPNs to access social media? If the minister is listening, that stands for 'virtual private network'.</para>
<para>Restricting the internet is an old fascination for Labor. Recall the Rudd government, when that reconstructed grouper, Stephen Conroy, pushed to filter internet content deemed offensive. The idea would have had the government dictate what you could and could not see but was abandoned in 2012. Once the government sees how comprehensively skirted their social media ban is by young Australians, legislation will meet— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:43</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RENNICK</name>
    <name.id>283596</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise in this urgency motion to speak against the government's proposed bill. I think the intention of it is admirable. We don't want to see our children being bullied on the internet but, as Ronald Reagan once said, 'The nine worst words in the English language are "I'm from the government and I'm here to help."' This morning I googled this: 'Are there software programs that can help stop children from accessing apps?' I googled this because we have a program at home—I say 'we', meaning my wife and I—whereby our children can't download apps unless they get permission from their parents. There are a number of apps you can purchase or get online, as a parent, to stop children from accessing apps. I will read a few out. Google Family Link is a free app that allows you to set screen time limits, block apps and filter content on your child's android or iPhone device.</para>
<para>Qustodio is a third-party parental control service that gives you a lot of control over your child's devices. Bark is a parental control app that monitors your children's texts, emails, web browsing and use of over 30 social media platforms. Bark's AI scans your children's activities for risks like cyberbullying, online predators or signs of depression. So there are a number of programs that parents can buy or access online so that they can monitor their children's behaviour.</para>
<para>The other thing about this is that you can ban children from using social media, but that still doesn't address the underlying issue of bullying. People can still access text messages and WhatsApp messages, so you can bully children that way. I noticed a previous speaker mentioned the concern of anorexia. Kate Moss was on magazine covers back in the 1990s. That was an issue long before the internet came along. I'll concede that the internet can fuel that, but we as parents need to take active responsibility for the way our children are bullied online. We need to do that here in the chamber as well. I, myself, have been called a cooker, an antivaxxer and a climate denier—all of these things—in this very chamber by those on the other side of the chamber, the Labor Party, who are now proposing to care about the welfare of our children. So I think there's a large degree of hypocrisy in this bill as well.</para>
<para>Yet again I ask: why is Labor doing this? By all means, the intention's good, but we really want parents to stay active and understand what their children are doing. We don't want parents to just switch off from what's going on around their children's lives. I think that's what we need to be focused on here today. I've mentioned many times in this chamber the importance of having a stay-at-home parent to help with that particular responsibility.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:46</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ANTIC</name>
    <name.id>269375</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I think we all want to see our children protected from harm online, but what's the real cost of a social media ban for children? Firstly, it's not clear to me how an age-specific ban could actually be enforced, short of requiring all Australians to prove their identity, and therefore their age, before using their social media accounts. How would it be done? The only reliable methods that are likely to work are those which require social media accounts to be linked to either a government certified ID, digital ID or biometric data. Immediately, we've gone from talking about a law protecting children under 16 from online harm to proposals potentially requiring all Australians to submit personal identification as a condition of using social media. This is how concerns over safety—in this case, children's safety—convince people to hand over their freedom, to hand over their personal information.</para>
<para>Of course, this has nothing to do with the fact that a generation of young people are starting to unpick the lies of the corporate media online, does it? Well, of course it does! What a great way to ensure that young people only get a left-wing government message approved to them via their devices. Frankly, the words 'ban' and 'media' should never exist in a sentence together, and parents should always be in charge of what their children watch and what their children watch online.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>281603</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the motion moved by Senator Roberts be agreed to.</para>
<para> </para>
<para> </para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
          <division.header>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [16:52]<br />(The Acting Deputy President—Senator Marielle Smith)</p>
            </body>
          </division.header>
          <division.data>
            <ayes>
              <num.votes>7</num.votes>
              <title>AYES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Babet, R.</name>
                <name>Hanson, P. L.</name>
                <name>Payman, F.</name>
                <name>Rennick, G.</name>
                <name>Roberts, M. I. (Teller)</name>
                <name>Thorpe, L. A.</name>
                <name>Tyrrell, T. M.</name>
              </names>
            </ayes>
            <noes>
              <num.votes>30</num.votes>
              <title>NOES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Askew, W.</name>
                <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                <name>Bilyk, C. L.</name>
                <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                <name>Cox, D.</name>
                <name>Darmanin, L.</name>
                <name>Farrell, D. E.</name>
                <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                <name>Ghosh, V.</name>
                <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                <name>Grogan, K. (Teller)</name>
                <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                <name>Hodgins-May, S.</name>
                <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                <name>McCarthy, M.</name>
                <name>McKim, N. J.</name>
                <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                <name>Polley, H.</name>
                <name>Pratt, L. C.</name>
                <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                <name>Shoebridge, D.</name>
                <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                <name>Stewart, J. N. A.</name>
                <name>Urquhart, A. E.</name>
                <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                <name>Whish-Wilson, P. S.</name>
              </names>
            </noes>
            <pairs>
              <num.votes>0</num.votes>
              <title>PAIRS</title>
              <names />
            </pairs>
          </division.data>
          <division.result>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
            </body>
          </division.result>
        </division></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>NOTICES</title>
        <page.no>4723</page.no>
        <type>NOTICES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Presentation</title>
          <page.no>4723</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>MATTERS OF PUBLIC IMPORTANCE</title>
        <page.no>4723</page.no>
        <type>MATTERS OF PUBLIC IMPORTANCE</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Cost of Living</title>
          <page.no>4723</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:55</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>281603</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>A letter has been received from Senator Dean Smith:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Pursuant to standing order 75, I propose that the following matter of public importance be submitted to the Senate for discussion:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">"Labor's wasteful spending, failed policies and wrong priorities have created a national cost of living crisis; with Australians' standards of living going backwards and interest rates higher for longer, the Government must develop a national solution to address this national crisis and stop making Australians pay the price."</para></quote>
<para>Is consideration of the proposal supported?</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">More than the number of senators required by the standing orders having risen in their places—</inline></para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>281603</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>With the concurrence of the Senate, the clerks will set the clock in line with the informal arrangements made by the whips.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:55</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DEAN SMITH</name>
    <name.id>241710</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>'Vote for hope' is what Prime Minister Anthony Albanese and Treasurer Jim Chalmers asked Australians to do in May 2022. Vote for hope! Two and a half years later, Prime Minister Anthony Albanese and Dr Jim Chalmers, the Treasurer, have some explaining to do. But they're not the only ones who have some explaining to do. Tracey Roberts, the Labor member for Pearce in Western Australia, Patrick Gorman, the Labor member for Perth in Western Australia, Tania Lawrence, the member for Hasluck in Western Australia, and Anne Aly, the Labor member for Cowan in Western Australia, all have some explaining to do, because Western Australians trusted Anthony Albanese, the Prime Minister, and voted for Labor, and what did they get? They did not get hope; they got disappointment. Western Australians were asked to vote for hope, and Western Australians were delivered disappointment.</para>
<para>Labor continues to ignore the very real concerns that Western Australian voters and households have about the cost-of-living crisis that now besets every Western Australian household. They are living it. They are living the cost-of-living crisis, and the data reminds us all just how seriously difficult things have become in just 2½ years under Labor. Australians are now worse off after 2½ years of Labor than they were when Labor was elected, and the response to Australia's inflation challenge continues to suffer at the hands of Labor. The inflation challenge is worse as a result of Labor's first budget in October 2022, the inflation challenge in our country got worse with Labor's second budget, and then the inflation challenge got worse with Labor's fiscal outlook. Things get worse under Labor. 'Vote for hope' has turned into disappointment for many Australian households. In fact, when we compare ourselves against other countries in the OECD, Australian households have had the largest fall in disposable incomes of any nation in the OECD. Australia remains stuck in an 18-month per capita recession.</para>
<para>Labor chooses to ignore the pleas of Australian households and the concerns that are being raised by Australia's charities and not-for-profits. They continue to pretend that there's no cost-of-living crisis and life continues as it did prior to the election. Anthony Albanese promised people that he would change Australia for the better. That's what he said in Perth: that he would change Australia for the better. But, if we were to randomly ask Western Australians today whether they feel better off or worse off, the answer would be overwhelmingly that they feel worse off under Anthony Albanese. The data does not lie.</para>
<para>Anthony Albanese, as opposition leader, said to Western Australians—indeed, to the whole nation—in May 2022 that he would make mortgage rates cheaper. But mortgage rates have got higher and people are now living under the cumulative impact of rate increase, rate increase, rate increase. Every time the RBA meet and make a decision about interest rates in this country, they are making a decision on the performance of the government, and the RBA choose to give the government a vote of confidence or a vote of no-confidence. When the RBA choose to raise interest rates or keep interest rates on hold, as they have done, they are saying, 'We do not trust the economic management of Anthony Albanese and Jim Chalmers as Treasurer.' They are saying they do not trust the economic management of Prime Minister Anthony Albanese and Dr Jim Chalmers, and Australians know. Australians are waiting for their opportunity to say to Prime Minister Anthony Albanese, 'You asked us to vote for hope; instead you gave us disappointment'. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:01</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GROGAN</name>
    <name.id>296331</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The temptation here would be to respond to some of the bunkum that we have just heard over the last five minutes, but I would just refer you, Senator Dean Smith, to some of the detail in the report that came from the cost-of-living inquiry, which doesn't appear to provide a great deal of hope at all. It has some pretty wishy-washy recommendations and nothing in terms of any sort of vision from the coalition for people to look at. But there was plenty of evidence gathered through that inquiry to tell us that people did not believe what was being contended by the coalition—and by Senator Hume and now by Senator Smith in this chamber—that the cost-of-living crisis began in May 2022. That's a really convenient tag line for you guys that has absolutely no truth behind it. What a shame! But we don't really like to let truth get in the way of a good story, do we, over there on the coalition benches? It's really not where we're actually making our efforts. No.</para>
<para>What we heard from witnesses, one after the other, when asked the question, 'Did the cost-of-living crisis start in May 2022?' was, 'No'. I think the most comprehensive response we got was from the housing providers. The housing providers—and you can trawl through those transcripts over and over again—peak bodies and people in the housing sector were telling us that this was a crisis in housing that had been brewing for well over a decade, not in two years. We heard it as well from the community sector providers, we heard it from youth workers and we heard it across the board that this is just a political statement you are making that has no truth behind it. For that, you should be ashamed of yourselves. You're just trying to flog a bad story. You're just trying to hoodwink people. The proof is in the pudding. And if you read that report that Senator Hume put out last Friday, it's like a wet lettuce—the recommendations are just empty. I would say that this has been a glorious exercise of wasting everyone's time for two years on the cost-of-living inquiry to turn out precisely nothing other than a bunch of stuff that says, 'We don't like Labor'. Well, hell—we knew that.</para>
<para>Honourable senators interjecting—</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GROGAN</name>
    <name.id>296331</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>No, maybe not. But have a good look. Seriously, have a read, people, because it is really a very, very damp report.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Dean Smith</name>
    <name.id>241710</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I don't think you've read it.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GROGAN</name>
    <name.id>296331</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I have. I have read it, cover to cover, and I have been at many of those hearings because I was on that inquiry, Senator Smith. I was on that inquiry and I listened into many I couldn't turn up to, and for the ones I couldn't, I read the transcripts. So, yes, I know exactly what was said there, and I know exactly—</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GROGAN</name>
    <name.id>296331</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>And so should everyone else! I was not a spy; I was a member of the inquiry, so we might just leave that. But what you've done over there is consistently block, tried to block, voted no and pushed against all of the really good things that we've been doing here. You said no when we were increasing JobSeeker and the youth allowance. With single-parent payments, you gave a big no. When we looked at increasing housing supply, you gave a big no. Come on!</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'Sullivan</name>
    <name.id>283585</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>But they all passed!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GROGAN</name>
    <name.id>296331</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Yes, they did but with no help from you. Just to be clear, Senator O'Sullivan, you fought against all of those things. You didn't get them up. We did get those things up, but you fought against each and every one of those things. For that, you should be ashamed of yourselves.</para>
<para>We are making a fundamental difference to the cost of living for people on the ground. We know people are doing it tough, and our plan is showing success. Our plan is showing that we can do this. We have brought inflation down from the over six per cent that you had it at to under three per cent, and yet you stand there and say that we're boosting inflation. We are not. We are bringing it down, and that is a fact. It is fact you don't like. It is a fact that you keep perpetuating against out there, and it is just bunkum.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>264449</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator Grogan. Before I call you, Senator McKim, I will remind senators that interjections are always disorderly, that interjections across the chamber are particularly disorderly and that contributions should be directed through the chair.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:06</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKIM</name>
    <name.id>JKM</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Whether it's the cost of food and groceries, rents, mortgages, transport costs, energy costs, health care or insurance, people are getting smashed. It'll be cold comfort to the millions of Australians who are really struggling to make ends meet to learn that, while they are going through all that pain, the big corporations are raking in record profits. The share of our national economy that is going to profits has never been higher than it is today, and the share of the economy going to wages has never been lower than it is today. The corporations are making off like bandits, and they're doing it off the back of the community pain and the pain of millions of Australians.</para>
<para>The latest Australian Taxation Office corporate tax transparency report makes it clear that one-third of the top 100 earning corporations in this country pay no tax at all. If you want a word to describe a system where a teacher, a nurse, a carpenter, a cleaner or a plumber pay more tax than a third of the top 100 earning corporations in this country paid, look no further than the word 'broken'. This is a broken system, where teachers, nurses, carpenters, plumbers and cleaners are paying more tax than a third of the top 100 earning corporations in Australia are. That is a cooked system, and this is a direct result of successive Labor and Liberal governments refusing to stand up and fight the big corporations.</para>
<para>Well, there is some good news for people, because more and more people are learning that, if you vote Green and you put Greens into this place, we will come in here and fight for people. We will fight against the big corporations, and we have the backs of the millions of Australians who are getting smashed by a cost-of-living crisis. If we make corporations pay their fair share of tax, we can put dental into Medicare. We can ensure that people can see a GP for free. We can wipe student debt, and we can raise income support. We can freeze and cap rent increases. We can make price gouging by the big supermarkets illegal.</para>
<para>People know that it's harder and harder to tell the major parties apart. They know that, if they vote Green, we will come in here and we will fight for them. More and more people are understanding that, if they want change, they have to vote for it.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:09</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CANAVAN</name>
    <name.id>245212</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I want to start my contribution to this debate by paying tribute to the ABC, which I don't normally do. A couple of weeks ago on their <inline font-style="italic">Insiders</inline> program, they put up a chart that I think should be ingrained into the memory of all political leaders in this country. It is a shocking chart. It showed the difference in relative living standards between the United States and Australia over the past two years. The chart started in the first quarter of 2022, which was the last full quarter of the last coalition government, and extended through to the first quarter of this year. If you look at the real gross household disposable income per person between our two countries, that graph showed that in the United States the generally accepted figure of living standards had increased by almost four per cent—just over three per cent—over those two years. In Australia, on that measure—a well-accepted measure—living standards in the past two years in Australia have dropped a shocking eight per cent. It is the biggest drop in recorded history for Australia. It is the largest drop by far in the developed world since the end of COVID and there is almost zero discussion about this issue.</para>
<para>What I heard from the government senators in contributions before was: 'We will just throw more money at it—at assistance and what have you.' This is not the point. The point and reason for why our living standards are cratering relative to other countries, declining at a record pace, is because our economy is not functioning. Our productivity is falling and falling at a record rate as well. Our productivity has gone down over six per cent in the two years this government has been in office. That means we have all got a lot less money. If we are producing less for every hour we work, we get less. If we just had the historical average productivity rate for this government over two years, Australians' income levels on average would be $8,000 better off right now. That is the cost of the complete lack of focus from this government on an economic agenda. This week, that graph should be ingrained.</para>
<para>I mean, why are we going so backwards, with all the wealth and resources we have as a nation? We should be trying to answer that question. We should be coming up with solutions. There should be legislation to cut red tape, lower taxes, do something to unleash productivity in this country. Instead, the Prime Minister's only agenda right now is to ban social media for kids under 16. That is the agenda this fortnight going into Christmas. I think that is an issue. There is an issue with bullying and harassment on social media for young children but why is that the centrepiece of this government's bankrupt agenda when our living standards are going down by that much? Why don't they have an answer for the fact Australians feel like they are going backwards, that they are losing confidence that their children will have a better future than they have had? There are no solutions being offered by their political leaders.</para>
<para>Let's take a few examples from recent months of this government that has completely lost the plot when it comes to focusing on the economy. Just the other month, the environment minister blocked a $1 billion goldmine because of a mythical bee. This goldmine is a $1 billion investment during a gold price absolute boom—gold prices have never been higher. It could literally make gold for our country, make wealth and create a thousand jobs but the government blocked this because a fringe Aboriginal group—not the actual Land Council but a fringe Aboriginal group—decided there was a dreaming story they had that involved a mythical bee—not a real bee, a mythical bee. Where are we going as a country and where are our priorities when we can't get those types of jobs created, that kind of wealth going for our country and we make these ridiculous decisions that make the rest of the world laugh?</para>
<para>We also have an energy minister that is not being up-front with the cost of his transition. He glosses over it, saying, 'We are going to transition', yet every time power bills for Australians go up. We were promised a $275 cut in our power bills and they have gone up on average by over $500 since this government has been in power, and still they ignore all the evidence that is emerging around the world that relying heavily on intermittent, unreliable solar and wind power won't cut it. It just increases power prices, reduces reliability—but apart from that, it is bloody fantastic!</para>
<para>This is a government without an economic agenda, and the biggest issue facing the country is how can we reignite the latent potential of our nation with the world's largest coal, gas, uranium, sun and wind resources? We have the land and water; let's use them and make Australians wealthy again.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:14</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'NEILL</name>
    <name.id>140651</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I love the ascending language about making the country great. I wonder what that might be echoing. We do have a great country, and we can be an even better country, but I'll tell you what: one thing that is not going to make this country great is if we see the sort of struggle that we know is real and happening in our community and we have a government in place that says, 'Let's cut spending. Let's just let those people who can't afford their medicines suffer.' We know that there's some heat in the electricity sector. People are having difficulty. Let's give them a bit of help by giving them support with their bills—or shall we do what the opposition has recommended, which is to absolutely oppose any support? They're saying they definitely don't want to give $315 billion to support people across this nation.</para>
<para>One of the things that they absolutely want to cut is cheaper medicines. The reality is that under Labor we are doing the right thing and genuinely helping people with the cost of living, instead of coming in here bleating and moaning with no solution. We are making it possible, for one year, for general patients to get medicines at just $31.60 and, for five years, for concessional patients to get them at $7.70. This is a big investment in helping people do something tremendously basic: get the medicines that they need for themselves or their family at a price that they can clearly see is going to remain the same to help them with their family budget.</para>
<para>This is a government that absolutely understands the real and practical challenges that people are experiencing. We, as a government, are determined to help our fellow Australians navigate through the time of difficulty and uncertainty. We've done it not just in those practical ways, in terms of helping people with medicine, but in giving a tax cut to every working Australian—not just some Australians, not just those who are on the highest wages, but every working Australian. They got a tax cut because Labor made it happen. Why did we do it? Because we want Australians to earn more, and we want Australians to keep more of what they earn.</para>
<para>Australians are earning more. Consistent wage rises have occurred for all award-wage-earning employees, and we've ensured that they've got stronger rights so that their wages can't be undercut. We're ensuring that they aren't being made to work longer for less. We have created the context to earn more and keep more of what you earn. It doesn't mean that, all of a sudden, it's easy for every Australian, but it does mean that we are putting in place the things that help people to manage the storm. We've seen inflation at 6.1 per cent. It's now down with a two in front of it. That only happens because of sound economic management. We know not only that the federal government needs to have support to do the right thing in terms of economic management, but that people need support.</para>
<para>On the weekend, like so many Australians, I had a few bills I needed to pay. When I opened the bills and had a look at what I had to do, I can tell you I was very grateful for the energy rebate to the tune of $300 a year for every single household and for the $325 to small businesses to help with the cost of living. People getting their bills are going to see that discount, that support, for them.</para>
<para>I've mentioned cheaper medicines. There's also student debt. We've taken really significant action to support young people who have acquired a debt as they've invested in themselves to be the best Australians they can be and to prepare themselves for the workforce for the future. With a re-elected Labor government, student debts will be cut by 20 per cent. Compare that with what those opposite are saying, which is that $315 billion has got to be cut. Be warned! It's very clear that the Liberal and National parties want to cut things like Medicare. They didn't support the changes to the pharmaceutical support for people, they didn't support helping anybody with electricity, they're holding up support for people who want to get housing, and they've got their own secret agenda of cuts. Every day they come in here and talk about this issue, be aware: there is no support for Australians from a Liberal-National coalition.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:19</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRAGG</name>
    <name.id>256063</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The central charge against this government is that it is a government for vested interests. What I mean by that is that it has worked so hard for its favourite fellow travellers that it has had no time to solve the central economic challenges which are facing Australians. You can look at that by virtue of an assessment of the failure to beat inflation compared to almost every other country which we would compare ourselves to. Or you could compare our record in government to the current government's record in relation to housing construction. Of course, if you look at any of the major opinion polls of Australians under the age of 40, people are going absolutely bananas about the housing strife. That is the same issue regardless of whether you are a renter or a person paying a mortgage.</para>
<para>The collapse in housing construction under this government has made the housing crisis so much worse, because if you constrain supply, then you make housing so much harder. In fact, under this government, we've gone from building 220,000 houses in 2018 to just 160,000 houses this year. That is the same number of houses we built back in 1989, when the population was just 17 million. There's been a disaster in housing. With trimmed mean inflation still sitting at 3.5 per cent, you'd have to say that interest rate relief is some time off yet. While they are cutting the official cash rate equivalent in other jurisdictions and getting on and building houses, we are stagnating here with stubbornly high interest rates and inflation and stubbornly low levels of housing construction. That is making the Labor Party's record here very painful for the Australian people.</para>
<para>I think it is one thing to go through the figures, but it is another to hear the government make their political points in question time and in these debates here in the Senate and the House. The thing that strikes me is the tin ear of the government. They almost are prepared to make the point that Australians have never had it better. It is this tin ear which I think is linked to this major problem I identified a few minutes ago. When the government only works through the laundry list of issues important to its favourite fellow travellers, it has no time to solve the major economic problems of the day—the problems facing families and small businesses. These are the issues on which the government ultimately will be judged.</para>
<para>In the last week, we've had an opportunity to traverse the government's obsession with governing for favourite vested interests. We've been able to call some of the major super funds and the regulator APRA to a Senate hearing, where we've heard that the government are very happy to allow the major shareholders of big super funds to receive dividends from the funds but not be on the hook when things go wrong. In other words, the government is happy for the CFMEU and all the other unions to take money out of super funds. It was millions and millions of dollars in the case of CBUS. It's been $5.8 million over the past three years during Mr Wayne Swan's tenure as the chair of CBUS. But things go wrong. In the case of CBUS, they were sued by the corporate cop ASIC for failing to pay death benefits and failing people in their hour of need when there is a family bereavement. The government is very happy for the super fund owners—the CFMEU in this case—to be absolved and to have no interest in paying the regulatory fines which are more than likely coming the way of the super funds. They're very happy for the unions to take the dividends from the super industry, but, when things go bad, they are off the hook.</para>
<para>This is a deliberate design feature. We know that Mr Chalmers and Mr Jones moved amendments to legislation in the last parliament to prevent these funds from being on the hook for major fines. I'm very pleased to add my weight to Senator Dean Smith's MPI. It demonstrates again that this government is a government for vested interests, always looking for the best way to protect and preserve the interests that are most important to them—not to the Australian people.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>264449</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The time for the discussion has expired.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>MOTIONS</title>
        <page.no>4727</page.no>
        <type>MOTIONS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Thorpe, Senator Lidia</title>
          <page.no>4727</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:24</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator THORPE</name>
    <name.id>280304</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to move a motion relating to the censure motion agreed to earlier today, as circulated.</para>
<para>Leave not granted.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator THORPE</name>
    <name.id>280304</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Pursuant to contingent notice of motion standing in my name, I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That so much of the standing orders be suspended as would prevent me moving a motion to provide for the consideration of a matter, namely a motion to give precedence to a motion relating to her censure earlier today.</para></quote>
<para>Today has been a clear demonstration of white supremacy in this chamber. Not only have the major parties censured a sovereign black senator, but they denied me the right to reply—a basic right in our so-called democracy. This is because they are threatened by our truth-telling and sovereignty as First Peoples in this country. It is the major parties' intention to distract from my protests and the real issue at hand—that is, this country's ongoing colonial occupation, oppressive violence and apartheid.</para>
<para>The colonisers want me to kneel, to be silent, to disappear. But let me be clear, very clear, to everybody here: I am a sovereign Gunnai, Gunditjmara and Djab Wurrung woman. My loyalty, my allegiance lies with my people, with my country and with justice, not with a government or a crown that has systematically worked to erase us. First peoples across this earth are rising—oh, are they rising!—rejecting the chains of colonial oppression and fighting back with unshakeable courage.</para>
<para>My sister Hana-Rawhiti, the direct descendant of those who signed the Treaty of Waitangi, tore up so-called New Zealand's dishonest and undermining treaty interpretation bill. The Kanak people are resisting French state and settler violence. And Samoan first peoples boldly challenged King Charles III during his recent visit, demanding accountability for colonial roles. Across the world, first peoples are uniting to declare that the era of silence is over, colonisers. Truth-telling is here, whether you like me or not and whether you like the truth or not. You tell your kids to tell the truth, but you come in here and you tell lies. Shame!</para>
<para>We are uniting around the world and the power of our solidarity will not be denied. Our solidarity leaves no-one behind. We come united in grief, love, joy and life while the colonisers only come with fear and death. I'm just a small part of a long line of people who offend the colonial regime. Look at Cathy Freeman, who was attacked for carrying the Aboriginal flag at the Commonwealth Games in 1994. Eddie Betts and Adam Goodes were attacked for being loud, proud and black on the AFL field. Charlie Perkins, who took our grievances directly to the Queen herself. Yassmin Abdel-Magied, who dared to tweet about refugees on Anzac Day, was vilified by every corner of the media and government. The message is clear: if you're black or brown in this country and you speak up, you will be met with violence, smear campaigns and relentless attempts to delegitimise and erase you.</para>
<para>Throughout this parliament's violent history, those who dare to speak out against abuses of power or human rights violations have faced silencing or punishment. The only person to have been removed from parliament before the laws were changed was Hugh Mahon, a member of the House, who called out the Irish genocide by the British and the taking and killing of political prisoners. Senator Janet Rice was censured for criticising so-called Australia's support for Indonesia's genocide against the West Papuan peoples.</para>
<para>I won't be silent. I'm going to keep calling it out. The Crown is an enabler of the continued genocide in this country, a continuation of its own actions from when their boats first set ashore on our lands. James Connolly, an Irishman who spoke about King George V's visit to Ireland in 1911, put it well. He said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">We will not blame him—</para></quote>
<para>the king—</para>
<quote><para class="block">for the crimes of his ancestors if he relinquishes the royal rights of his ancestors; but as long as he claims their rights, by virtue of descent … he must shoulder the responsibility for their crimes.</para></quote>
<para>Since my protest to the King at this parliament there have been at least three more deaths in custody. Since my protest, we've learned that 66 children have died in the out-of-home care system—the systems that you created to kill us! <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:30</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator AYRES</name>
    <name.id>16913</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the question be now put.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>264449</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the motion to suspend standing orders moved by Senator Thorpe be agreed to.</para>
<para> </para>
<para> </para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
          <division.header>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [17:35]<br />(The Acting Deputy President—Senator Chandler)</p>
            </body>
          </division.header>
          <division.data>
            <ayes>
              <num.votes>13</num.votes>
              <title>AYES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Cox, D.</name>
                <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                <name>Hodgins-May, S.</name>
                <name>McKim, N. J.</name>
                <name>Payman, F.</name>
                <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                <name>Shoebridge, D.</name>
                <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                <name>Thorpe, L. A. (Teller)</name>
                <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                <name>Whish-Wilson, P. S.</name>
              </names>
            </ayes>
            <noes>
              <num.votes>25</num.votes>
              <title>NOES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                <name>Bilyk, C. L.</name>
                <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                <name>Cadell, R. (Teller)</name>
                <name>Chandler, C.</name>
                <name>Chisholm, A.</name>
                <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                <name>Darmanin, L.</name>
                <name>Ghosh, V.</name>
                <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                <name>Grogan, K.</name>
                <name>Hughes, H. A.</name>
                <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                <name>McCarthy, M.</name>
                <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                <name>Polley, H.</name>
                <name>Pratt, L. C.</name>
                <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                <name>Smith, D. A.</name>
                <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                <name>Stewart, J. N. A.</name>
                <name>Urquhart, A. E.</name>
                <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                <name>Watt, M. P.</name>
              </names>
            </noes>
            <pairs>
              <num.votes>0</num.votes>
              <title>PAIRS</title>
              <names />
            </pairs>
          </division.data>
          <division.result>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
            </body>
          </division.result>
        </division></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>4729</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Treasury</title>
          <page.no>4729</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>4729</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:37</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DEAN SMITH</name>
    <name.id>241710</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate take note of document 28 listed on today's Order of Business.</para></quote>
<para>I take this opportunity to bring to the attention of the Senate the tardiness of the Albanese government in responding to orders for the production of documents, and, in this particular case, deliberately withholding documents so that a Senate inquiry was unable to use them in its committee deliberations and reporting processes. Aside from what this says about how the government views its responsibilities to this chamber, it is of grave concern to the dedicated not-for-profit organisations across the country. They are dealing with the fallout from the mishandled implementation of the Australian Taxation Office's new tax-exempt reporting requirements for not-for-profits, which has been characterised by conflicting information and an administrative burden many smaller organisations simply cannot handle. It's another example of the government's habit of meeting with stakeholders, only to ignore their concerns and fail to act on their recommendations.</para>
<para>This pattern is especially troubling considering the government was briefed in March 2024 on the policy's implementation challenges and had ample opportunity to address them. Despite this, it has failed to take the necessary action to meaningfully improve the experiences of those impacted. Witnesses representing organisations as diverse as Agricultural Shows Australia, Stonnington Scottish Country Dancers and Landcare Australia appeared before the Senate Economics References Committee to share firsthand accounts of the damage this rollout is inflicting on our community. These are organisations that, for generations, driven by their selfless efforts as volunteers, have helped bring relief to the most vulnerable members of our community and deliver important services. Yet, in the midst of an unprecedented cost-of-living crisis, the government is choosing to burden them with an administrative nightmare.</para>
<para>The Australian Multicultural Action Network pointed to the lack of an accessible online portal, a basic function the ATO has failed to implement. The reality is that volunteer turnover is high, and this is the case among many organisations that are predominantly volunteer run, forcing volunteer treasurers, many of whom have limited accounting knowledge, to navigate a labyrinth of confusing requirements and advice that can hardly be considered simplified and streamlined as the ATO seeks to claim. The Community Council for Australia, a leading voice in the sector, stated clearly and unequivocally that the Australian Taxation Office was repeatedly warned of the detrimental impact these new requirements would have, particularly on smaller organisations, but their pleas and those of many others have fallen on deaf ears. As CEO David Crosbie put it during the hearing: 'You call that a consultation. I call that a dismissive approach to our sector.' The Law Council of Australia, recognising the disproportionate burden on smaller organisations, advocated for a reasonable threshold exempting those with lower revenues from these onerous demands. Yet the Australian Taxation Office and the government continue to ignore these potentially mitigating suggestions, and its implementation has made this a policy that is no longer with its original intentions.</para>
<para>I return to the government's lack of transparency on an order for the production of documents which I moved and which this chamber agreed to in relation to this particular issue. The Minister representing the Treasurer failed to meet her obligation to table all records of communication between the ATO and relevant parties by the 10 September deadline. This tabling didn't occur until 1 November 2024. That is 52 days late. This delay wasn't accidental; it was a calculated move to suppress information about potential problems and criticisms of the policy's rollout. By withholding these records, the government directly hampered the committee's ability to properly examine the implementation process, to hold accountable those responsible for any failure and possibly to make recommendations of greater use to the not-for-profit sector. This lack of transparency demonstrates a blatant disregard for accountability and a continuing attempt to manipulate the inquiry.</para>
<para>I urge the government, and especially Minister Andrew Leigh, to recognise the distress and frustration this rollout is causing volunteer led organisations; to immediately extend the reporting deadline further still to provide much-needed relief while this situation is worked through; and to rethink its approach and explore alternative implementation pathways, possibly involving the ACNC, that are more appropriate and less burdensome for smaller not-for-profits. The not-for-profit sector is the lifeblood of our community. They deserve a government that listens, understands and acts to support, not hinder, their vital work. It's time for the government to bridge the obvious disconnect between the ATO's perception of its responsiveness to the sector and the sector's experience and to deliver a fit-for-purpose policy for all involved.</para>
<para>Debate adjourned.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Department of Climate Change, Energy, the Environment and Water</title>
          <page.no>4730</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>4730</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:43</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON-YOUNG</name>
    <name.id>I0U</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate take note of document 32 listed on today's Order of Business.</para></quote>
<para>This document is in relation to an order that I put forward in this place some time ago. Sadly, while we've now been given the document, the government was over a month late coughing up the paperwork. It feels as though, every time you start asking the right questions, the government shuts down. They don't want to give you the right information if it's a tricky topic for them. That's not how the parliament works, and it's not how the Senate works. So, firstly, I'm a bit disappointed about that.</para>
<para>To the substance, this was in relation to documentation into the Vitrinite coalmine in Queensland, where the company, who want to expand their operations, currently have an application on foot in front of the minister's environment department asking for approval for this coalmine smack bang in the middle of critical koala habitat. Rather than waiting for approval to be given, this company has started the bulldozers and moved in. They've already demolished a significant amount of koala habitat without waiting for the green light. So they've illegally cleared forests and destroyed the habitat of koalas. They have no right to do this. It's illegal. It shouldn't have happened. But it is in exactly the same place for which this company had an application before the environment minister to expand their coalmine operations.</para>
<para>Why do companies like this do this? Of course, it's because they think, 'Act now. Beg for forgiveness later.' They don't want approval. They think they're going to get approval anyway. Even if they get a fine, it's cheaper for them to cop the fine and get a little rap on the knuckles for doing the wrong thing, because the government, time and time again, keeps giving them approval. This is a business model for these coal companies—these bulldozers of koala habitat and native forests and bushland.</para>
<para>I say to the minister that she needs to send a message. A strong message needs to be sent to this company, and all the others watching, that this is not on. The minister could go to the court and get an injunction, because these bulldozers are rolling on the ground now, destroying this habitat, despite not having been given approval to do so. The other strong message that the minister could give is that she could make it very clear that it's a 'one strike and you're out' policy where, if you do the wrong thing—if you disobey the law and thumb your nose at the process—you're not going to be given any more approvals—nada, done, finished, out of here. That's what should happen to this company.</para>
<para>It beggars belief that in 2024, when we have koalas facing extinction and we're in the midst of a climate crisis and a biodiversity crisis, we're even in a situation where the environment minister currently has an application before her. Coal or koala? It shouldn't be that hard a decision: coal—polluting coal—and bulldozers, or saving our native species, including the koala. How on earth is that a difficult decision to make?</para>
<para>Having said that, I note that the application is on foot and the minister must tell this company straight up right now, 'No, you've disobeyed the rules and thumbed your nose at the process.' They've called chicken on the minister and her department, and they should be punished for it. The minister needs to pick up the phone today and say, 'Tools down, and you're out.' It is ironic that we're even discussing this today, considering that one of the things that have been put on the parliamentary list for debate this year, of course, has been trying to fix Australia's environment laws. Well, you could start by saving the koala. I seek leave to continue my remarks later.</para>
<para>Leave granted; debate adjourned.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>National Anti-Corruption Commission</title>
          <page.no>4731</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:48</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LAMBIE</name>
    <name.id>250026</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>In respect of the report on the National Anti-Corruption Commission for 2023-24, I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate take note of the document.</para></quote>
<para>This morning the first report from Gail Furness SC, Inspector of the National Anti-Corruption Commission, was tabled in the house. Ms Furness's first year as inspector ended with an announcement by the National Anti-Corruption Commission that it would not pursue referrals from the Royal Commission into the Robodebt Scheme. Robodebt was not only found to be illegal; it caused huge trauma, and people lost their lives. Hundreds of Australians complained to the inspector, and on 13 June 2024, thank God, Ms Furness announced that she was inquiring into the National Anti-Corruption Commission's decision, and so she should.</para>
<para>When I heard the National Anti-Corruption Commission wouldn't be investigating these six senior public servants, I was angry, like many other millions of Australians out there, but it didn't surprise me at all. I was the only one in this place last year to ask why on earth this government would put Paul Brereton in charge of the National Anti-Corruption Commission in the first place? This is the same bloke who decided that it was fine to let the top brass off the hook and throw the book at our diggers for alleged war crimes in Afghanistan.</para>
<para>When the National Anti-Corruption Commission was established, a lot of people thought senior ADF officers and senior Defence public servants would be the most common referrals, but apparently not. This is why so many in the veterans community couldn't believe a senior ADF officer was appointed as the commissioner, not just any senior ADF officer but the major general who gave all of the other major generals a blanket exemption from investigation in his Brereton inquiry report. Lo and behold, Major General Brereton, wearing his NACC commissioner's hat, decided not to pursue referrals from the robodebt royal commission and—blow me over—one of the six people referred was another major general. Who would have guessed? We're all mates!</para>
<para>There was a very clear conflict of interest here. Brereton says that his 'judgement was mistaken when viewed through the lens of apprehended bias'. Well, that is the understatement of the century if I have seen one. He is the boss of the anticorruption body, but he succumbed to 'mistaken judgement and apprehended bias'.</para>
<para>The NACC watchdog released its annual report today. In that report, the inspector considered this mistaken judgement by Brereton could amount to 'officer misconduct'. How about that! In another refusal of a major general to accept responsibility, Brereton dug in and refused to resign, as he would. He went so far as to tell an audience of the government's institution that he blamed leaders for a poor public sector integrity culture in which responsibility is exempted. Does anybody else see the irony in that statement? Talk about narcissism! Here is the clincher: Brereton told the government institution, 'If every judge found to have made a mistake of law or fact resigned, there would be no-one sitting on the bench in this country.' To compare judges making errors of law or fact with his actions where a conflict of interest existed—a conflict which he even identified—is absolute rubbish. According to journalist and author Rick Morton, when the NACC was scrambling to work out how they would tell Australians the NACC would take no further action against the six people referred to the NACC by the robodebt royal commission, Major General Paul Brereton told the commission 'not to get hung on whether or not there is a corruption issue'.</para>
<para>The Labor government claims it was a big win, but putting Paul Brereton in charge of it has hurt the reputation of an agency we desperately needed to have faith in. This is why Australians are losing faith in our political leaders. Katherine 'robodebt' Campbell was one of the six senior public servants, and she got a slap across the wrist, with no loss of super, and she can work in the Public Service again as long as she tells them she was involved in robodebt. Why don't you tell them how many lives you are responsible for taking as well?</para>
<para>As for Paul Brereton, he should resign effective immediately. If he had any conscience or integrity left, he would do so. But no, and this is typical behaviour of soldiers from the military. When he was asked if he would resign last week—this is the arrogance of Brereton—he refused and even suggested that resigning would hurt the NACC. Hey, mate, the only person hurting the NACC is you. Get out of there. Leave. It would be a statement that our yardstick is popularity not integrity. He should have a good look at himself in the mirror, because he is not popular and his lack of integrity is clear for all Australians to see.</para>
<para>It is not just Major General Paul Brereton; it is the Attorney-General. I warned you not to put him in there. I can't even take complaints, because senior commanders in there are too scared. They know they will be done over because of what you have done, AG. <inline font-style="italic">(</inline><inline font-style="italic">Time</inline><inline font-style="italic"> expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:54</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHOEBRIDGE</name>
    <name.id>169119</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I too rise to speak to the annual report of the National Anti-Corruption Commission. It was extraordinary that the first time we have really had to call upon the Inspector of the National Anti-Corruption Commission, under powers that, thankfully, the Senate gave the inspector with amendments moved by the Greens, resisted by the government, was into the inquiry into the scandalous dealing of the robodebt fiasco by the National Anti-Corruption Commission.</para>
<para>This month we saw the Inspector of the NACC deliver a brutal assessment of the NACC's decision not to investigate the robodebt scandal. The inspector concluded that the head of the NACC, Commissioner Brereton, engaged in officer misconduct in how he dealt with it and that the robodebt scandal needed to be reinvestigated by the NACC. As we speak, the NACC is doing somersaults trying to find some way that isn't ridden with conflicts of interest in which they can now appoint somebody to review the conflict-ridden decision that the NACC made not to investigate the robodebt scandal.</para>
<para>Before looking into the mess that happened inside the NACC, it's worth remembering that this wasn't just any corruption referral. The robodebt scandal was referred to the NACC by hundreds and hundreds of individuals as well as by the royal commission into the scandal. The royal commission sent the NACC a large body of confidential evidence concerning six people who it concluded may have engaged in corrupt conduct regarding robodebt. This was not the standard referral to the NACC. The inspector found that Commissioner Brereton failed to remove himself from the NACC's handling of the robodebt matter, despite his admission—and he said it in multiple different ways—that one of the six people referred by the royal commission was, in his words, 'well known to me'. I think he also said later that he had a 'close personal association' with her.</para>
<para>The inspector's report details how Commissioner Brereton declared that conflict of interest, purportedly delegating the final decision on robodebt to a deputy commissioner, and then remained deeply involved in every aspect of the NACC's consideration. Because of the detail in the inspector's report, we now know that Commissioner Brereton led the key discussions about robodebt inside the NACC, sought internal legal advice about it and even settled the minutes of meetings held about it. He then topped it all off by authorising a misleading media release trying to explain why the NACC was doing nothing. The inspector concluded that this conduct was in breach of the legal obligations of the NACC and that a 'fair minded observer might reasonably apprehend that the NACC commissioner's involvement might have impinged on the impartiality' of the decision-making process. Thank goodness for the inspector!</para>
<para>As a result of the blowtorch applied by the inspector, we're now going to get another review by the NACC, which none of the existing senior staff can take part in, to see if it should investigate robodebt. That's already falling into scandal, as we saw from a report this weekend in the <inline font-style="italic">Saturday Paper</inline>. Since the release of the inspector's report, we've had both Labor and the coalition rushing to the defence of Commissioner Brereton, saying that the inspector's brutal correction is proof the system is working and that the public had total trust in Commissioner Brereton. If only that were true.</para>
<para>What we saw from not only the NACC inspector's report but also the independent review that Alan Robertson, a very highly regarded senior counsel, did for the assistance of the NACC inspector was that Commissioner Brereton led the key discussion at the meeting on 19 October 2023 where the NACC effectively decided not to investigate the robodebt scandal. The commissioner has been telling people that he was only there for policy reasons. Let's hear what Alan Robertson SC said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The Commissioner's involvement in the decision-making under section 41 was comprehensive, before, during and after the 19 October 2023 meeting at which the substantive decision was made.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The views of the Commissioner expressed at the meeting on 19 October were not limited to policy questions concerning the referrals generally as the policy questions had a strong factual element specific to, amongst others, [Referred Person 1]—</para></quote>
<para>being the person with whom Commissioner Brereton had declared a conflict—</para>
<quote><para class="block">The discussion was framed by the issues raised by the Commissioner. The Commissioner settled the minutes …</para></quote>
<para>Not only that, but the commissioner then let the referred people settle his misleading media release. I can tell you now that there will be a further investigation of Commissioner Brereton this coming Friday by the parliamentary joint committee. Maybe that will get to the truth of this scandal. I seek leave to continue my remarks later.</para>
<para>Leave granted; debate adjourned.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Consideration</title>
          <page.no>4732</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>4733</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Intelligence and Security Joint Committee</title>
          <page.no>4733</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Report</title>
            <page.no>4733</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:01</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CICCONE</name>
    <name.id>281503</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I present the advisory report of the Parliamentary Joint Committee on Intelligence and Security—yes, the spooky committee!—on Cyber Security Legislative Package 2024. I seek leave to move a motion to take note of the report.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CICCONE</name>
    <name.id>281503</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate take note of the report.</para></quote>
<para>On behalf of the Parliamentary Joint Committee on Intelligence and Security, I want to make a brief contribution on the report that has now been tabled in relation to the Cyber Security Legislative Package 2024. Cybersecurity incidents have the potential to compromise the privacy and security of millions of our citizens here in Australia, enabling fraud and extortion on a scale that was not previously possible. Even more seriously, hostile nation-states are increasingly seeing cyber vulnerabilities as a possible means to sabotage critical infrastructure and damage Australia's interests in a time of conflict. Hardening Australia's cybersecurity against these threats is essential to our ongoing security and prosperity.</para>
<para>The Cyber Security Legislation Package consists of three bills: the Cyber Security Bill 2024, the Intelligence Services and Other Legislation Amendment (Cyber Security) Bill 2024 and the Security of Critical Infrastructure and Other Legislation Amendment (Enhanced Response and Prevention) Bill 2024. Collectively these bills provide a suite of measures intended to uplift Australia's cybersecurity, including through mandated minimum security standards for smart devices, mandatory reporting of ransomware payments made by businesses, establishing a cyber incident review board, limited use provisions to encourage private-public cooperation on cyber incidents and reforms to the Security of Critical Infrastructure Act 2018, including to bolster the protection of business critical data and to simplify information-sharing across industry and government.</para>
<para>The Minister for Home Affairs and the Minister for Cyber Security referred the package to the committee on 9 October this year, requesting a report by 19 November to enable timely passage of the legislation before the end of the year. The committee received more than 60 very high quality, I must say, written submissions and heard public hearings over two days late last month. There was near universal support for the bills amongst most contributors to the inquiry, many of whom had been involved in a very extensive and rigorous consultation process prior to the bills being introduced by the government in connection with the 2023-2030 Australian Cyber Security Strategy. This meant there were few, if any, surprises in the bills and fewer issues to be resolved by the committee than otherwise would have been the case. The majority of the matters brought to the committee's attention concerned implementational matters of detail.</para>
<para>In response to the matters raised, the committee has made a total of 12 recommendations, and these include recommendations for the government to ensure that businesses are educated about the new ransomware reporting obligations and provided with clear administrative guidance on how the various aspects of the new legislation are intended to be interpreted and applied in practice. The committee has recommended a small number of technical amendments aimed at clarifying the operation of the ransomware reporting obligations in relation to the incidents that do not affect a business's operations in Australia, clarifying the protection of material that is subject to legal professional privilege and ensuring the package's limited-use provisions are clearly expressed. The committee has also recommended that the Cyber Security Bill be subject to a statutory review by this committee after three years and that an existing statutory review of the Security of Critical Infrastructure Act 2018 be deferred by two years.</para>
<para>The committee recognises that hardening Australia's cyber-resilience and implementing the 2023-2030 Australian Cyber Security Strategy is an urgent priority that the government and this parliament need to look at and need to consider on a much more routine basis. Noting the extensive consultation process that has already been undertaken in this place and subject to the recommendations in the report, the committee supports the urgent passage of these three bills.</para>
<para>On behalf of the committee, I'd like to extend my sincere thanks to the range of organisations and individuals who contributed to the inquiry and helped inform the committee's report. I'd also like to thank my fellow committee members for their constructive and bipartisan approach, particularly the deputy chair, Mr Wallace, in the other place. I'd also like to note the outstanding work that the secretariat did in making sure that we were able to turn this report around, and I'd like to thank the secretary and all the members of the secretariat for their outstanding work on this report.</para>
<para>On that note, I commend the report to the Senate. I seek leave to continue my remarks later.</para>
<para>Leave granted; debate adjourned.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>4734</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Department of Health and Aged Care</title>
          <page.no>4734</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>4734</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:08</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McCARTHY</name>
    <name.id>122087</name.id>
    <electorate>Northern Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I table documents relating to the order for the production of documents concerning the Aged Care Taskforce.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:08</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CADELL</name>
    <name.id>300134</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate take note of the documents.</para></quote>
<para>I seek leave to continue my remarks later.</para>
<para>Leave granted; debate adjourned.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Department of Infrastructure, Transport, Regional Development and Local Government</title>
          <page.no>4734</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>4734</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:08</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McCARTHY</name>
    <name.id>122087</name.id>
    <electorate>Northern Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I table documents relating to the order for the production of documents concerning Melbourne Airport's third runway.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:08</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CADELL</name>
    <name.id>300134</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate take note of the documents.</para></quote>
<para>I seek leave to continue my remarks later.</para>
<para>Leave granted; debate adjourned.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Department of Social Services</title>
          <page.no>4734</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>4734</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:08</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McCARTHY</name>
    <name.id>122087</name.id>
    <electorate>Northern Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I table documents relating to the order for the production of documents concerning non-disclosure agreements.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:08</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CADELL</name>
    <name.id>300134</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate take note of the documents.</para></quote>
<para>I seek leave to continue my remarks later.</para>
<para>Leave granted; debate adjourned.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>4734</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Parliamentary Standards Joint Committee</title>
          <page.no>4734</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Membership</title>
            <page.no>4734</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:08</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>281603</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The President has received a letter nominating a senator to be a member of a committee.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:08</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McCARTHY</name>
    <name.id>122087</name.id>
    <electorate>Northern Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That Senator McKim be appointed as a member of the Parliamentary Joint Committee on Parliamentary Standards.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BILLS</title>
        <page.no>4734</page.no>
        <type>BILLS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Migration Amendment (Strengthening Sponsorship and Nomination Processes) Bill 2024, Privacy and Other Legislation Amendment Bill 2024, Treasury Laws Amendment (2024 Tax and Other Measures No. 1) Bill 2024, Veterans' Entitlements, Treatment and Support (Simplification and Harmonisation) Bill 2024</title>
          <page.no>4734</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p>
              <a href="r7224" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Migration Amendment (Strengthening Sponsorship and Nomination Processes) Bill 2024</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <a href="r7249" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Privacy and Other Legislation Amendment Bill 2024</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <a href="r7241" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Treasury Laws Amendment (2024 Tax and Other Measures No. 1) Bill 2024</span>
                </p>
              </a>
            </p>
            <a href="r7217" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Veterans' Entitlements, Treatment and Support (Simplification and Harmonisation) Bill 2024</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>First Reading</title>
            <page.no>4734</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:09</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McCARTHY</name>
    <name.id>122087</name.id>
    <electorate>Northern Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That these bills may proceed without formalities, may be taken together and be now read a first time.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bills read a first time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>4735</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:10</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McCARTHY</name>
    <name.id>122087</name.id>
    <electorate>Northern Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That these bills be now read a second time.</para></quote>
<para>I seek leave to have the second reading speeches incorporated in <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline>.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">The speeches read as follows—</inline></para>
<quote><para class="block">MIGRATION AMENDMENT (STRENGTHENING SPONSORSHIP AND NOMINATION PROCESSES) BILL 2024</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Migration Amendment (Strengthening Sponsorship and Nomination Processes) Bill 2024 amends the <inline font-style="italic">Migration Act 1958 </inline>to establish the legislative framework for a new temporary skilled worker visa, the Skills in Demand visa.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This legislation creates the income thresholds and indexation for the proposed streams of that visa, as well as streamlining Labour Market Testing requirements.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill is a necessary, important step to introduce a better targeted, temporary skilled work visa as part of the Albanese Labor Government's Migration Strategy.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Migration Strategy is a set of commitments to address a decade of neglect in Australia's visa system. It's about a more prosperous, fair and secure Australian labour market.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">If you are a worker, whether local or migrant, the Migration Strategy means stronger protections of your wages and conditions.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">For businesses, it means getting the workers and skills you need to grow and be more productive.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The amendments in this Bill are an important step in delivering a better-planned migration system, meeting Australia's skills needs, and laying a strong foundation for the future.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The provision of legislated minimum income thresholds in the Migration Act for the streams in the Skills in Demand visa will ensure that people working on these visas are less vulnerable to exploitation. This Bill ensures workers receive fair remuneration through indexed salary thresholds.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The amendments in this Bill will guarantee that migrant wages will increase alongside Australian wages, reducing the likelihood of exploitation of skilled migrants. This is good for all workers, regardless of where they are from.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Specialist Skills stream will attract highly-skilled specialists to ensure businesses can quickly and easily recruit top talent. Eligibility criteria would, among other things, require an applicant to be earning at least $135,000 per year.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Specialist Skills stream will recognise these workers meet a national need that is beyond filling a narrowly defined gap in the labour market. Highly-skilled migrants bring significant economic benefits. They are more likely to bring productivity enhancing , knowledge and ideas and create jobs for locals..</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Most temporary skilled migrants will come through the Core Skills stream. This stream is designed to bring in the skilled employees Australia needs, now and in the future, to ensure we are able to provide ourselves with the goods and services we need to support our way of life.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Eligibility criteria would, among other things, require an applicant to be earning at least $73,150 per year.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">These thresholds, to be implemented under the new Skills in Demand Visa, replaces the current Temporary Skilled Migration Income Threshold.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Placing this threshold in the Act, and making it subject to annual indexation—instead of continuing to specify it in a legislative instrument made by the Minister—provides greater certainty for both sponsors and workers going forward, whilst providing greater strength to restore integrity to the migration system.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Labor has long called for indexation of these important salary thresholds and this Bill ensures this will happen into the future.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">For too long, these salaries were not indexed and the Temporary Skilled Migration Income Threshold remained at $53,900 from 1 July 2013 to 30 June 2023.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill also delivers on another commitment in the Government's Migration Strategy, by establishing a legislative framework to underpin a public register of approved work sponsors.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This register will provide greater protections and oversight mechanisms, helping to tackle migrant worker exploitation and misuse of the visa system.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Importantly, this register will provide a resource to check that a sponsoring employer is legitimate.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The development of a public register that includes the name of the approved sponsor, their business postcode, number of sponsored workers and their occupations will encourage transparency, monitoring and, oversight.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This managed approach to Australia's visa system ensures a stronger workforce, which in turn strengthens the Australian community.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill will help ensure we have the skills we need for the future and, ultimately, make sure the system is working in the interests of all Australians.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Migrants make a valuable contribution not only to Australia's prosperity—but also to our communities, our national identity, and to our connections across the world.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill is an important step towards implementing the Albanese Labor Government's Migration Strategy.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I commend this Bill to the Chamber.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">PRIVACY AND OTHER LEGISLATION AMENDMENT BILL 2024</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Introduction</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The digital economy has unleashed enormous benefits for Australians. But it has also increased the privacy risks we face through the collection and storage of enormous amounts of our personal data.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The <inline font-style="italic">Privacy Act 1988 </inline>represented the first time that a comprehensive, integrated set of legal rules protecting interests in privacy existed in Australia. On introducing it, Attorney-General Lionel Bowen told the Parliament that "enormous developments in technology for the processing of information are providing new and, in some respects, undesirable opportunities for the greater use of personal information."</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In that respect, little has changed. Evolutions in technology and the way people use it continue to vex those who share information online, and those charged with regulating it. It is essential that Australians are protected by a legal framework that is flexible and agile enough to adapt to changes in the world around them.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Privacy Act has not kept pace with the adoption of digital technologies. The vast data flows that underpin digital ecosystems have also created the conditions for significant harms—like major data breaches that have revealed the sensitive information of millions of Australians, exposing us to the risk of identity fraud and scams.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Strong privacy laws and protections are critical to building public trust and confidence in the digital economy, and driving the investments needed to keep people's data safe.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The right to privacy is a fundamental human right. As Sir Zelman Cowan said in his 1969 Boyer Lectures, a person without privacy is a person without dignity. We must be vigilant in ensuring that evolving technology does not erode our ability to protect information about who we are, what we do and what we believe from being misused.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Privacy and Other Legislation Amendment Bill 2024 is a significant step forward for Australian privacy law. It begins the much-needed work of updating our privacy laws to be fit-for-purpose in the digital age.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">With this Bill, the Australian Government is taking the next step to ensure Australians' privacy is respected and protected. It implements a first tranche of agreed recommendations of the Privacy Act Review, ahead of consultation on a second tranche of reforms.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It also delivers on a commitment made by the Albanese Government following the National Cabinet held in May to address gender-based violence, by outlawing the practice of "doxxing", or the malicious release of personal data online.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Schedule 1 of the Bill will amend the Privacy Act to enhance its effectiveness, strengthen the enforcement tools available to the privacy regulator and better facilitate safe overseas data flows. It will require the development of a Children's Online Privacy Code, streamline information-sharing in emergencies and following eligible data breaches, and increase transparency when entities are automating significant decisions which use personal information.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Schedule 2 of the Bill will introduce a new statutory tort to provide redress for serious invasions of privacy.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Schedule 3 of the Bill will amend the <inline font-style="italic">Criminal Code Act 1995 </inline>to introduce new criminal offences to target the harmful practice of doxxing.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Schedule 1—Privacy Act amendments</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Schedule 1 begins the work of bringing Australia's privacy protection framework into the digital age. The amendments re-affirm the Government's view that entities have a responsibility to protect</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australians' personal information and not treat it merely as a commercial asset.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Children's privacy</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">While all Australians face privacy risks in the online environment, children are particularly vulnerable. For many Australian children, social media has been part of their lives from the time they were born. They have never lived in a world without it.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It has been estimated that by the time a child turns 13, around 72 million pieces of data will be collected about them.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill will require the development of a Children's Online Privacy Code which will apply to social media and other internet services which are likely to be accessed by children. The Children's Online Privacy Code will specify how these entities must comply with privacy obligations in relation to children. The Code will align to the extent possible with similar codes in like-minded countries, such as the United Kingdom.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Code will be developed by the Office of the Australian Information Commissioner, which will be provided with $3 million in funding over three years to do this important work.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Information-sharing declarations after data breaches and emergencies</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Cyber incidents are growing in number, speed and sophistication. Data breaches are exposing millions of Australians to risk of fraud, identity theft and scams. This Bill will promote the importance of implementing technical and organisational controls—such as encrypting data and training staff on data protection—to address information security risks.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It will also support more effective responses to data breaches by introducing eligible data breach declarations. A declaration will permit the sharing of personal information following a notifiable data breach for the purpose of preventing or reducing the risk of harm to individuals.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Sharing information under these circumstances will enable entities such as banks to act quickly to prevent the misuse of compromised credentials. Safeguards are included to ensure that a declaration can only be made for a purpose that is related to preventing or reducing a risk of harm to individuals arising from a misuse of personal information from the eligible data breach.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">An eligible data breach declaration can be issued quickly and will make clear the kinds of personal information that may be shared, and with whom they may be shared, which may include state and territory agencies.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Similarly, emergency declarations made under the Act permit personal information sharing following disasters or emergencies to support response efforts, including to assist affected individuals. The Bill will require emergency declarations to specify the kinds of personal information, types of entities permitted to share information and the purposes for which it may be shared. These changes will ensure that individuals' privacy is protected while also addressing their broader interests, and will support enhanced coordination with states and territories in emergencies and disasters.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Overseas <inline font-style="italic">data </inline>flows</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The flow of information across national borders is critical for international trade and services in a globalised world. To support the free flow of information with appropriate protections, the Bill provides for countries with substantially similar data privacy laws to Australia to be prescribed. Businesses and individuals will be able to have greater confidence that personal information will be kept safe. This will also reduce costs for business when entering into contracts and agreements with overseas entities.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Enforcement</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Effective enforcement of the Privacy Act is essential to protect Australians' interests. This Bill expands the suite of regulatory powers available to the Information Commissioner to effectively enforce the Act, and provides a broader range of enforcement options available to do so. This will include new civil penalties and infringement notices for less serious privacy breaches.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">To investigate potential privacy breaches in an increasingly complex digital landscape, the Information Commissioner requires modern investigative powers. This Bill provides the Information Commissioner with additional powers, including for search and seizure, which may be exercised under warrant when investigating breaches of the Act, and scalable enforcement options.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill will empower a court to make appropriate orders where it has determined that an entity has breached a civil penalty provision, which may include compensation for loss or damage suffered.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Effective privacy protection requires proactive regulatory action. This Bill also strengthens the Information Commissioner's capacity by expanding monitoring and assessment functions. The Bill also introduces new public inquiry powers which will enable the Information Commissioner to inquire into specified matters as directed or approved. This will enable the</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Information Commissioner to keep closer oversight of threats to privacy, including issues of a systemic nature, as they emerge.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Automated decision making</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The safe and responsible development and deployment of automated decision making presents significant opportunities. These systems have the potential to increase the efficiency, accuracy and consistency of decisions, and they present opportunities for improved outcomes in health, environment, defence and national security.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill will provide individuals with transparency about the use of their personal information in automated decisions which significantly affect their interests. Entities will need to specify the kinds of personal information used in these sorts of decisions in their privacy policies.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Importantly these requirements will apply to decisions that are wholly or substantially automated, ensuring that the new requirements cannot be avoided by 'tokenistic' human involvement in a decision-making process.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Schedule 2—statutory tort for serious invasions of privacy</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">A statutory tort applying to breaches of privacy has been talked about in Australia for a long, long time—as early as 1969, when Sir Zelman Cowan, then Vice-Chancellor of the University of New England, endorsed legislation to create an actionable right to seek redress for breaches of privacy.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">There is currently no tortious right of action for invasion of privacy under the Act or any other Commonwealth, state or territory statute. The creation of a statutory tort was recommended by the Australian Law Reform Commission in its 2014 Report "Serious Invasions of Privacy in the Digital Era", which I commissioned in 2013. It has been recommended by many other inquiries before and since.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In its 2014 report, the Commission stated the creation of a statutory tort would "fill an increasingly conspicuous gap in Australian law, helping to protect the privacy of Australians, while respecting and reinforcing other fundamental rights and values, including freedom of expression".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Schedule 2 to the Bill will provide a new statutory cause of action, or tort, for individuals who have suffered a serious invasion of their privacy. This will include an intrusion on a person's physical privacy, so the tort will complement the Privacy Act, which focusses on the narrower concept of <inline font-style="italic">information </inline>privacy.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">There are parts of our lives that we reasonably expect to be able to keep to ourselves. The freedom to enjoy a private and family life, and express ourselves and our beliefs in safety, is critical to our wellbeing and dignity.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Ensuring that individuals have a clear right to seek a legal remedy against people or entities who seriously invade their privacy is a key part of ensuring that our privacy laws keep pace with community expectations and advances in technology.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Schedule 2 to the Bill provides that an individual has a cause of action for serious privacy invasions, either by an intrusion upon the individual's seclusion—for example by physically intruding into their private space—or by misuse of their information, in circumstances where the individual had a reasonable expectation of privacy.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">A plaintiff will have a cause of action without having to prove that any damage arose from the invasion of privacy. The damage or harm a plaintiff suffers will' be a relevant factor in assessing the seriousness of the invasion, and the remedies that may be awarded.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">For a claim to succeed, the plaintiff will need to demonstrate the public interest in protecting their privacy outweighs any competing public interest raised by the defendant.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In addition to the public interest balancing test, a range of defences will apply, including where the conduct of the defendant was required or authorised by law or was necessary because of a serious threat to life, health or safety.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill will provide specific exemptions from liability under the tort, including for journalism, enforcement bodies and intelligence agencies. These exemptions are important to protect press freedom, and ensure that legitimate activities of government can be delivered effectively.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The journalism exemption provides that invasions of privacy which occur in the course of the collection, preparation or publication of journalistic material, by a journalist, their employer, or someone assisting them, would not be liable under the tort. The Bill requires that to be considered a 'journalist', the person must work in that professional capacity, and be subject to applicable standards of professional conduct or a code of practice.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The journalism exemption also operates in addition to the requirement that a court balance the public interest in the plaintiff's privacy with other public interests. This may involve consideration of the public interest in freedom of the media, or freedom of expression.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">A court will have the flexibility to choose the remedy or remedies that are most appropriate in the circumstances. This may include compensation for non-economic loss or an order requiring the defendant to apologise to the plaintiff.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Schedule 3—doxxing criminal offences</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Schedule 3 of the Bill will amend the <inline font-style="italic">Criminal Code 1995 </inline>to create new criminal offences targeting the release of personal data in a manner that is menacing or harassing-a practice known as 'doxxing'.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The prevalence of social media and online platforms has rapidly increased the capacity of malicious individuals to obtain personal data, and to release that online-either to the public at large on social media platforms, or to their associates on forum and messaging platforms.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Doxxing exposes victims to significant and enduring harm, including public embarrassment, humiliation, shaming, discrimination, stalking and identify theft and financial fraud. It can lead to threats to a victim's life and safety, and the lives and safety of their families and friends. It can inflict significant and lasting psychological harm.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Doxxing is a damaging form of abuse that can affect all Australians, but is often used against women in the context of domestic and family violence.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The creation of this offence also responds to a recent, shocking incident of a group who were targeted with doxxing on the basis of their religion.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill creates a new offence that applies where a person:</para></quote>
<list>uses a carriage service to make available, publish or otherwise distribute the personal data of one or more individuals; and</list>
<list>the person does so in a way that reasonable persons would regard as being menacing or harassing towards those individuals.</list>
<quote><para class="block">The new offence will carry a maximum penalty of 6 years' imprisonment.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill also introduces a further offence, with a more serious maximum penalty of 7 years' imprisonment, where a person or group is targeted because of their race, religion, sex, sexual orientation, gender identity, intersex status, disability, nationality or national or ethnic origin.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government recognises that there are circumstances in which people legitimately publish and distribute personal data, including individuals' names, contact details and movements.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The new offences will apply only where a reasonable person would consider the conduct to be, in all the circumstances, menacing or harassing, to ensure that legitimate conduct is not inappropriately criminalised.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">'Personal data', in the context of these new offences, means information about an individual that enables them to be identified, contacted or located. This includes their name, photograph, telephone number, email address, online account, residential or work address, and place of education or worship. This definition recognises that doxxing can occur in a number of different ways.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Albanese Government is committed to the protection of Australians from online harm, and these new offences will ensure that perpetrators of doxxing are held to account.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">These new offences will complement work that is underway across government, to strengthen online safety for all Australians. This includes the takedown powers of the eSafety Commissioner, the Cyberbullying Scheme and the Adult Cyber Abuse Scheme under the <inline font-style="italic">Online Safety Act 2021.</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Conclusion</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill is an important first step in the Government's privacy reform agenda, but it will not be the last. Over the coming months, the Attorney- General's Department will develop the next tranche of privacy reform for targeted consultation, including draft provisions. The Government is approaching this important reform work carefully, to ensure increased privacy protections are balanced alongside other impacts, and that we deliver the fairest outcome for all Australians.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">After many years of inaction, this Labor Government is committed to genuine privacy reform. The Australian people expect no less—for themselves and their children.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">TREASURY LAWS AMENDMENT (2024 TAX AND OTHER MEASURES NO. 1) BILL 2024</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Today, we're taking steps to ensure that our tax system is simpler and fairer.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Schedule 1 to the Bill improves the integrity of the foreign resident capital gains withholding regime.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Foreign residents, like Australian residents, are required to pay capital gains taxes on the sale of their Australian real property assets. However, there's an incentive for foreign residents to not lodge a tax return to avoid this liability. The current withholding regime has been in place since 2016 as an integrity measure against this—ensuring a 12.5 per cent down payment on any CGT liability at the point of sale, for asset sales above $750,000.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">However, where CGT liabilities are greater than 12.5 per cent, there remains an incentive for foreign residents to avoiding lodging a tax return in order to sidestep their tax obligations.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The amendments implement the government's 2023-24 MYEFO measure to increase the withholding rate from 12.5 per cent to 15 per cent and removes the $750,000 threshold.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">These changes help to level the playing field between Australian and foreign investors, by ensuring foreign investors selling a real property asset (such as residential property) are subject to the same overall tax obligations as Australians, and better aligns a foreign resident's CGT liabilities with their likely real capital gain.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We're also making our tax system simpler for Australia's small businesses. Small businesses are the heart of our economy. They're run by hardworking Australians who are used to overcoming challenges to keep their businesses growing. We'd like their tax returns to be one less challenge. The changes in this Bill will make it easier to manage their tax affairs, so they can get back to their businesses and their families.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Currently, businesses need to make a declaration each time their tax agent lodges their single touch payroll data on their behalf. We're changing that. Schedule 2 will allow a business to make a standing declaration to their agent that covers multiple lodgements, for up to 12 months, on the employer's behalf. This simple change simplifies the process, saving time and cutting unnecessary red tape.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We're also extending the time small and medium businesses have to self-amend their tax assessments from two to four years, as outlined in Schedule 3. Currently, if a business realises they've made a mistake in their tax return after the two-year window has closed, they're forced into a formal objections process that is time- consuming, complex, and often costly. By extending the self-amendment window, we're giving businesses the flexibility to fix errors, helping them stay compliant with their tax obligations.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Schedule 4 to the Bill delivers on the government's election commitment to cut paperwork and reduce the time small businesses spend doing taxes. The law currently requires the Tax Office to process certain refunds as soon as practicable, even when valid bank account details aren't available. This often results in the Tax Office sending refunds via cheques. These can be delayed or lost, and may impose a cost on businesses to process them. These changes will allow the Tax Office up to 90 days to gain valid bank account details before processing certain tax refunds. The greater use of electronic funds transfers to bank accounts will facilitate faster, safer and cheaper payment of refunds.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The changes in this Bill are sensible changes to improve the integrity of our tax system, cut red tape, and make our tax system more accessible for Australian businesses.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Full details of the measure are contained in the Explanatory Memorandum.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">VETERANS' ENTITLEMENTS, TREATMENT AND SUPPORT (SIMPLIFICATION AND HARMONISATION) BILL 2024</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Today, I am pleased to introduce the Veterans' Entitlements, Treatment and Support (Simplification and Harmonisation) Bill 2024. The VETS Bill.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill delivers on the Albanese Government's commitment to implement the first recommendation of the Royal Commission into Defence and Veteran Suicide's Interim Report.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Positioning</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In August 2022 the Royal Commission into Defence and Veteran Suicide released its Interim Report.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Royal Commission found that the 'veterans entitlement system is so complicated that it adversely affects the mental health of some veterans'.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Veteran claims for benefits and support are currently assessed under three different pieces of legislation depending on the time someone served, and the nature of their service. Often veterans have had claims dealt with under all three pieces of legislation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This is the result of decades of piecemeal change and fringe reform built on top of a century of different veterans' entitlements legislation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Royal Commission's first recommendation was that legislative reform be implemented to simplify and harmonise the system. The Government accepted this recommendation a month later.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">That is what this Government committed to doing, and we've set about the mammoth task of embarking on the most significant reform of the veterans' entitlements legislation since the introduction of the <inline font-style="italic">Military Rehabilitation and Compensation Act </inline>20 years ago. Indeed, this Bill could be seen as the most significant shift in approach to veterans entitlements legislation in in the nearly 40 years since the <inline font-style="italic">Veterans Entitlements Act </inline>was introduced.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Anyone who has engaged with the current veteran compensation system will tell you the system is unnecessarily complicated, difficult to understand and has negatively impacted veterans. This same complexity has directly contributed to delays, inconsistent processing, uncertain outcomes and claims backlogs.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Calls to simplify the current arrangements have been kicking around for years, and I'm proud the Albanese Government has taken on the challenge. This reform will significantly reduce the complexity of the system, ultimately giving veterans and families the support they need, faster.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Since the Royal Commission's recommendation in mid-2022, through to this year, we've consulted on this proposal widely because we know that the best outcomes will come with the involvement of those who have been personally impacted by, and interacted with the veteran compensation system.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Royal Commission called on Government to consider outstanding recommendations from the 2019 Productivity Commission report, <inline font-style="italic">A Better Way To Support Veterans </inline>in developing this legislation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We sought feedback on those recommendations in 2022.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In early 2023, I released our <inline font-style="italic">"Veterans' Legislation Reform Consultation Pathway" </inline>for consultation. We held 17 face-to- face consultations across the country and 6 webinars, many of which I attended personally.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government considered this feedback and developed an exposure draft of this legislation released early this year.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Critically, as a result of these consultations, we are adding a new payment called the Additional Disablement Amount—or ADA—to the <inline font-style="italic">Military Rehabilitation and Compensation Act.</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In our recent consultations with veterans around the country the feedback was overwhelmingly positive on this draft legislative proposal. Resulting from this further consultation, the Bill introduced today now sees veterans in receipt of DRCA incapacity payments automatically transition to MRCA incapacity payments.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I know for many in the veteran community, the seriousness with which the Albanese Government takes supporting our veterans was evident in this year's Federal Budget.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Budget showed that our work properly resourcing the Department of Veterans' Affairs—OVA—and hiring more than 500 additional permanent staff to successfully eradicate the OVA claims backlog we inherited would see an additional $6.5 billion in delayed benefits and supports flow to veterans and families over five years.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Budget was also evidence that these legislative changes are not about the Government saving money, but rather will see an additional $222 million in veteran and family benefits over the first two years of operation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Veterans' have personally shared with me that they never thought such a significant, positive reform for the veteran community would occur in their lifetimes.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">What is it?</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">At the heart of the Government's legislative proposal is that on 1 July 2026 all veterans' rehabilitation and compensation claims will be dealt with under a single piece of legislation, the 21st century <inline font-style="italic">Military Rehabilitation and Compensation Act 2004 </inline>(MRCA).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">As a principle, this new approach will mean that all veterans will engage with OVA regarding their rehabilitation and compensation entitlements on the basis of just one piece of legislation; one that will operate without the confusing multi-act considerations that characterise many current claims.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This is a step further than what was proposed in the most recent review of veterans' compensation legislation. The 2019 Productivity Commission Report recommended taking the three current Acts, and combining these into two pieces of legislation. However, this change would have produced a whole new range of complexity.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">What we have done is to move to just one piece of ongoing legislation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill will amend the <inline font-style="italic">Military Rehabilitation and Compensation Act 2004</inline><inline font-style="italic">—</inline>you might have heard it referred to as the MRCA, the <inline font-style="italic">Safety, Rehabilitation and Compensation (Defence-related claims) Act 1988- </inline>known as the ORCA, and the <inline font-style="italic">Veterans' Entitlements Act 1986</inline><inline font-style="italic">—</inline>or VEA, to be streamlined into a single piece of ongoing legislation of veteran compensation and other entitlements which will be continued in the MRCA. These changes will also introduce a range of enhancements for an "Improved" ongoing MRCA that will make access to entitlements easier and fairer.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">These changes will remove the need for many veterans to make choices that are often complex and, in many instances, subject to individual circumstances, which can change over time. It will also remove duplication in claims lodgement.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The changes will also hugely simplify the training, processing and knowledge burdens on claims advocates and OVA staff. Making processes and administration easier for OVA is not an end in itself, but rather an outcome that will directly and positively affect veterans by allowing the Department to be well positioned to focus efforts on vulnerable veterans.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">OVERVIEW OF THE BILL</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We are proposing that the new system will commence on 1 July 2026. The extended commencement allows time to ensure the veteran community is well informed on what these important changes mean for them and that individuals can consider their circumstances.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It will also ensure the appropriate training and system changes have been implemented for advocates and within OVA without hold up.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Those receiving benefits immediately prior to the commencement of the new arrangements will continue to do so under 'grandparenting' arrangements without any reduction in payments. This is a key feature of the new model that is designed to give financial certainty to veterans and their families. The provisions also operate to ensure that any payments being received will continue to be indexed annually.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In essence, the changes in this Bill will:</para></quote>
<list>Make it easier for veterans and families to know what they are entitled to;</list>
<list>Make it easier for veteran claims advocates to assist veterans and families with these claims; and</list>
<list>Make it quicker for OVA to process claims, so veterans and families get the benefits they need and deserve in a timely way.</list>
<quote><para class="block">Turning now to the detail.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Schedule 1 of the Bill contains the key provisions that will have the effect of consolidating compensation and rehabilitation entitlements into a single ongoing piece of legislation.</para></quote>
<list>Changes will be made to close off the <inline font-style="italic">Safety, Rehabilitation and Compensation (Defence-related claims) Act </inline>and the <inline font-style="italic">Veterans' Entitlements Act </inline>to compensation claims from 1 July 2026. All members and former members of the Defence Force regardless of when they served or the classification of their service will claim under the <inline font-style="italic">Military Rehabilitation and Compensation Act. </inline>In the meantime, all veterans will still be able to lodge claims under their current applicable legislation until 30 June 2026. Or they can delay their claims until the new framework applies. Or they can decide to do nothing. These decisions will be up to individual veterans.</list>
<list>Income support payments such as Service Pension will continue to be made under the <inline font-style="italic">Veterans' Entitlements Act.</inline></list>
<list>Amendments in this schedule will also open the <inline font-style="italic">Military Rehabilitation and Compensation Act </inline>to medical conditions already accepted under other Acts. This means that if a veteran has had their condition accepted under the <inline font-style="italic">Safety, Rehabilitation and Compensation (Defence- related claims) Act </inline>or the <inline font-style="italic">Veterans' Entitlements Act, </inline>the condition will be recognised under the <inline font-style="italic">Military, Rehabilitation and Compensation Act. </inline>This will ensure that those suffering a worsening of their accepted condition can receive benefits and payments under the single ongoing Act, with no need to re-prosecute the earlier claim.</list>
<list>Coverage for service only covered in the <inline font-style="italic">Veterans Entitlements Act, </inline>including peacekeeping, operational and hazardous service, and British nuclear testing, will be moved into the <inline font-style="italic">Military Rehabilitation and Compensation Act.</inline></list>
<list>Important changes will also be made to permanent impairment payments, to make them easier to claim and administer.</list>
<list>Payments will be calculated from the first day of the month based on a doctor's estimation of when the condition started.</list>
<list>These changes will allow treating doctors to provide a meaningful estimate of when an impairment met the requisite criteria of being <inline font-style="italic">permanent and stable, </inline>removing some of the onerous claim requirements.</list>
<list>There will also be certain circumstances in which a legal personal representatives will be able to convert a deceased member's permanent impairment compensation into a lump sum payment.</list>
<list>Conditions arising from the use of tobacco products prior to 1 January 1998 will continue to be recognised, now under the <inline font-style="italic">Military Rehabilitation and Compensation Act.</inline></list>
<list>A new liability pathway will be introduced into the <inline font-style="italic">Military Rehabilitation and Compensation Act </inline>to allow claims to be accepted, simply on the basis that the member was on duty when the injury was sustained, as is presently the case under <inline font-style="italic">Safety, Rehabilitation and Compensation (Defence-related claims) Act 1988 </inline>(DRCA).</list>
<list>It also transfers recipients of <inline font-style="italic">Safety, Rehabilitation and Compensation (Defence-related claims) Act 1988 </inline>(DRCA) incapacity payments to the <inline font-style="italic">Military Rehabilitation and Compensation Act </inline>(MRCA) for people being paid compensation under the relevant provisions of the old DRCA immediately before the commencement date without the need for a claim to be lodged under the MRCA. This transition will occur from the date of commencement to the MRCA. In addition, the deduction of 5 per cent of the person's normal weekly earnings from the amount of compensation will cease as this provision does not exist in the MRCA. There will be a beneficial outcome for DRCA incapacity payment recipients upon their transition to the MRCA.</list>
<quote><para class="block"> Schedule 2 deals with important changes designed to enhance the benefits and payments available under the <inline font-style="italic">Military Rehabilitation and Compensation Act.</inline></para></quote>
<list>Compensation for funeral expenses will be consolidated in the <inline font-style="italic">Military Rehabilitation and Compensation Act.</inline></list>
<list>Dependants and legal personal representatives of deceased veterans will be able to lodge a claim under the <inline font-style="italic">Military Rehabilitation and Compensation Act </inline>irrespective of the Act that the member previously had coverage.</list>
<list>This will also mean an increase to $3,000 for funeral allowance for previous automatic grant categories under the <inline font-style="italic">Veterans' Entitlements Act, </inline>and the availability of reimbursement of funeral expenses up to $14,062 for ALL service related deaths.</list>
<list>The legislative basis for benefits like the acute support package, household services and attendant care, the Victoria Cross allowance, <inline font-style="italic">ex gratia </inline>payments and recognition supplements for former prisoners of war will all move to the <inline font-style="italic">Military Rehabilitation and Compensation Act.</inline></list>
<list>Some aspects of veteran treatment arrangements will move from the <inline font-style="italic">Veterans' Entitlements Act </inline>to the <inline font-style="italic">Military Rehabilitation and Compensation Act, </inline>including the legislative basis for non-liability health care and the Repatriation Commission's powers to determine specific treatment programs and classes of eligible persons. These moves will result in no changes to coverage.</list>
<list>A legislative basis for the Repatriation Commission to accept liability based on a presumption that the person's Defence service caused their injury or disease—presumptive liability—will operate by providing the</list>
<quote><para class="block">Commission with an instrument-making power to specify the relevant injuries or diseases.</para></quote>
<list>A new payment called the Additional Disablement Amount, or ADA, will also be introduced into the <inline font-style="italic">Military Rehabilitation and Compensation Act. </inline>Similar to the Extreme Disablement Adjustment, or EDA, under the <inline font-style="italic">Veterans' Entitlements Act, </inline>this new payment will benefit veterans over pension age with significant service-related impairment. Like the EDA, dependants of deceased ADA veterans will also have access to the Gold Card and other benefits in the event of the veteran's death.</list>
<quote><para class="block">Schedule 3 will standardise the merits review process for veterans' compensation entitlements decisions. The internal (OVA) reconsideration process will be removed and jurisdiction given to the Veterans Review Board, a specialist veteran tribunal, to review <inline font-style="italic">Safety, Rehabilitation and Compensation (Defence-related claims) Act 1988, </inline>the DRCA, original determinations. A second tier of merits review to the Administrative Review Tribunal—the AAT—will remain in place. Although DRCA reviews would naturally cease under the model in the medium term, these changes will commence 60 days after Royal Assent, to harmonise the review pathway across the Acts and provide consistency and certainty over the initial period of the new model.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Sections dealing with the powers and functions of the Veterans' Review Board will also move from the <inline font-style="italic">Veterans' Entitlements Act </inline>into the <inline font-style="italic">Military Rehabilitation and Compensation Act.</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Schedule 4 will simplify the governance arrangements for the veterans' entitlements system. The Repatriation Commission and the Military Rehabilitation and Compensation Commission will be merged, leaving the Repatriation Commission as the single body administering all veterans' compensation legislation, consolidating the powers of the existing two Commissions.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This change will remove duplication of responsibilities and provide greater administrative clarity about governance matters.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Schedule 5 will move provisions dealing with the Repatriation Medical Authority and Specialist Medical Review Council from the <inline font-style="italic">Veterans' Entitlements Act </inline>into the <inline font-style="italic">Military Rehabilitation and Compensation Act, </inline>with no change to either body's powers or responsibilities, to ultimately make engaging with the system more straightforward.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">There will now be a change, however, so that where the Repatriation Medical Authority updates a Statement of Principles, or SoP, between the veterans primary and reviewable decision, the version of the SoP which is most beneficial to the veteran's circumstances will now be applied.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Schedule 6 makes important changes to when the disability compensation payment will stop under the <inline font-style="italic">Veterans' Entitlements Act. </inline>Currently, under the <inline font-style="italic">Veterans' Entitlements Act, </inline>the disability compensation payment cannot be paid for the 14-day pension period in which a person dies. That's resulted in some horrible situations where grieving families are asked to pay back a debt. This schedule will change the cessation of disability compensation payment to the date of the person's death, harmonising the position in the <inline font-style="italic">Veterans' Entitlements Act </inline>and the <inline font-style="italic">Military Rehabilitation and Compensation Act, </inline>as well as income support payments.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Schedule 7 will deal with application and transitional provisions.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The transitional provisions of this Bill will:</para></quote>
<list>apply the <inline font-style="italic">Military Rehabilitation and Compensation Act </inline>to claims for injuries, diseases and deaths from the date of commencement</list>
<list>apply provisions as applied before these changes for claims which span a period before and after the date of commencement. Where a claim is lodged before the date of commencement but is not determined until after the date of commencement, the prior existing law will apply.</list>
<list>set out the circumstances in which compensation under the <inline font-style="italic">Military Rehabilitation and Compensation Act </inline>can be paid for injuries or diseases which have been compensated previously under the <inline font-style="italic">Safety, Rehabilitation and Compensation (Defence-related claims) Act 1988 </inline>(DRCA) or <inline font-style="italic">Veterans' Entitlements Act 1986 </inline>(VEA). In particular, where there has been a material worsening of the injury or disease.</list>
<list>continue the existence of the Repatriation Commission and make provision for the ongoing appointment of members of that body (except for the Deputy President) and cease the appointments of members of the Military Rehabilitation and Compensation Commission.</list>
<list>continue the existence of the RMA and the SMRC</list>
<list>preserve the validity of all things done by the Commissions, the Repatriation Medical Authority and the Specialist Medical Review Council in accordance with the provisions that existed at the time, as well as transfer proceedings or requests for investigations that are on foot; and</list>
<list>create a time-limited regulation making power to allow more prescriptive transitional arrangements to be made where necessary.</list>
<quote><para class="block"> Schedule 8 contains amendments to legislation in other portfolios such as Social Services, Treasury, and Health, to reflect the <inline font-style="italic">Military Rehabilitation and Compensation Act 2004</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(MRCA) as the primary statute for veteran matters and the merging of the Commissions.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Conclusion</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This legislation will reform a highly complex, overlapping veterans' compensation framework, one that operates under three separate pieces of legislation and that causes a great deal of anxiety to the veteran community.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill has been developed as a result of and shaped by feedback provided by the veteran community over the last 20 months.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This is a once in a generation opportunity to get the system right for veterans and families. A system that for too long has caused much unnecessary anxiety for the veteran community. The book <inline font-style="italic">"Shining a </inline><inline font-style="italic">Light</inline><inline font-style="italic">' </inline>recently produced by the Royal Commission into Defence and Veteran Suicide that covers the lived experience of veterans and families makes this all too clear.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I thank all the veterans, defence personnel, families, advocates and experts who have been involved in this process to date.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Your frank and fearless feedback, has genuinely been vital in developing the pathway to, and the nuance of this legislation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This legislation is a significant step in ensuring a better future for defence personnel, veterans and families.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I look forward to continuing to work with you here in this place, on all sides, to make this once in a generation positive change for all Australian Veterans.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I commend the Bill to the Chamber.</para></quote>
<para>Debate adjourned.</para>
<para>Ordered that the bills be listed on the <inline font-style="italic">Notice Paper</inline> as separate orders of the day.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Better and Fairer Schools (Funding and Reform) Bill 2024, Wage Justice for Early Childhood Education and Care Workers (Special Account) Bill 2024</title>
          <page.no>4743</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p>
              <a href="r7253" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Better and Fairer Schools (Funding and Reform) Bill 2024</span>
                </p>
              </a>
            </p>
            <a href="r7247" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Wage Justice for Early Childhood Education and Care Workers (Special Account) Bill 2024</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>First Reading</title>
            <page.no>4743</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:11</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McCARTHY</name>
    <name.id>122087</name.id>
    <electorate>Northern Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That these bills may proceed without formalities, may be taken together and be now read a first time.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bills read a first time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>4743</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:12</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McCARTHY</name>
    <name.id>122087</name.id>
    <electorate>Northern Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That these bills be now read a second time.</para></quote>
<para>I seek leave to have the second reading speeches incorporated in <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline>.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">The speeches read as follows—</inline></para>
<quote><para class="block">BETTER AND FAIRER SCHOOLS (FUNDING AND REFORM) BILL 2024</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This is a Bill to increase funding for our public schools. The Minister for Education is proud of public education. Education is the most powerful cause for good in this country. It doesn't just change lives. Its impact ricochets through generations. It changes communities and it changes countries. It's changed ours. And it's public education that does most of that heavy lifting.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">More than 6,700 public primary and high schools across the country. Full of children from every background, every religion and every culture. And mums and dads up and down the income scale. Doing every sort of job. That's part of what makes public education special. It is for everyone.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">But it also does something else. It plays an outsized role in educating the most disadvantaged children in this country. The children who are most likely to start behind or fall behind. The children who need our help the most. And these are the schools that are the most underfunded.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">One in 10 children today are below the minimum standards we set for literacy and numeracy. But one in three children from poor families are below that standard. Most of those children are in our public schools. Many never catch up. And many never finish school.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Over the last eight years the percentage of students finishing high school has gone down not up. From 85 percent to 79 percent. That drop isn't happening everywhere. In non government schools the percentage of students finishing school is either pretty flat or going up. Where the drop is happening is in our public schools. From 83 percent to 73 percent. And it's happening at a time when it's more important to finish school than ever before. Where more and more jobs require you to finish school and then get a qualification from TAFE or uni.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This is what we have got to turn around. This is what we have got to fix. And this is what this legislation is about.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In 2011 David Gonski delivered the report that recommended a new funding formula for schools. What we now call the Schooling Resource Standard—or SRS. The SRS sets the estimated level of total public funding each school should receive to fund the cost of schooling each year. At the moment, the base per student amount is $13,570 for a child in primary school and $17,053 for a child in high school.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">As part of the model that David Gonski recommended, additional funding is also provided for:</para></quote>
<list>Students with disability</list>
<list>Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander students</list>
<list>Students experiencing socio-educational disadvantage</list>
<list>Students with low-English proficiency; and</list>
<list>School size and location.</list>
<quote><para class="block">These are called loadings.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">For most non-government schools, the base per student amount is reduced depending on the median income of the parents of the children who attend the school. This means for example that at a non-government school where the median family income of the parents is very high the school only gets 20 percent of the SRS base amount.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">All of this is what's often described as the Gonski model or needs-based funding. At the moment all non-government schools are funded at the level David Gonski set all those years ago, or they are on track to get there, or they are above it and coming back down to it. But most public schools aren't.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Commonwealth Government provides 80 percent of the SRS funding for non government schools and the State and Territory Governments provide the other 20 percent. For public schools it's the reverse. The Commonwealth provides 20 percent of the SRS funding and the States and Territories are supposed to provide another 75 percent.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Some do. Some don't. That means there is at least a five percent gap. At the last election the Labor party promised "to work with all states and territories to get all public schools on a path to 100 per cent of the SRS." What that means is both the Commonwealth Government chipping in more and the States and Territories chipping in more to fill that gap. To do that we have to amend the Australian Education Act.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">At the moment, the Act says the Commonwealth Government will provide a maximum 20 percent of the Schooling Resource Standard to public schools. This Bill turns that maximum amount into a minimum. It turns that ceiling into a floor. It enables the Commonwealth government to ratchet up funding for public schools. And it makes it harder for future governments to rip that money out.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It means that when the Commonwealth government does a deal with a State or Territory to increase funding to public schools, that bigger Commonwealth share becomes the new floor for that State or Territory. It is locked in and it can't go backwards without changes to the Act. We have done three of those deals so far this year. With Western Australia, with the Northern Territory and Tasmania. All of them involve the Commonwealth government chipping in more and the State and Territory governments chipping in more. All of them mean more funding from 1 January next year.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In the case of Western Australia it means every public school there will be fully funded by 1 January 2026, just over 12 months away. In the case of Tasmania it means every public school will be fully funded by no later than 2029. And in the case of the Northern Territory it means something that promises to be truly transformational.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">At the moment Northern Territory public schools receive approximately 80 percent of the funding they are supposed to get under the Gonski model. Less than anywhere else in the country. It means in effect that one in five children in the Northern Territory are not receiving any funding. The agreement the Minister for Education signed this year fixes that. It doubles the Commonwealth's investment in public schools in the Northern Territory. It brings forward the day that all Northern Territory public schools are fully funded by more than 20 years. And it means that some of the most disadvantaged public schools in this country will now be some of the best funded.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">To make this happen though we need to pass this Bill.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">There are some people who say that funding isn't important. We just need practical reforms. And there are others who say the opposite. The truth is both are required. Funding and reform.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">As David Gonski said in his report: <inline font-style="italic">"resources alone will not be sufficient to fully address Australia's schooling challenges and achieve </inline>a <inline font-style="italic">high quality, internationally respected schooling system. The new funding arrangements must be accompanied by continued and renewed efforts to strengthen and reform Australia's schooling system."</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Minister for Education agrees. That's why the agreements the government has struck with Western Australia, Tasmania and the Northern Territory are not a blank cheque. They are tied to real, practical reforms. That includes:</para></quote>
<list>Phonics checks and numeracy checks in Year 1 or earlier, to identify children early who are behind and need additional support.</list>
<list>Evidence based teaching and catch up tutoring to help children catch up and keep up.</list>
<list>Funding extra mental health and well-being services in schools. Including counsellors, psychologists and full service schools.</list>
<list>Providing access to high-quality and evidence-based professional learning for teachers and school leaders and providing quality-assured curriculum resources that have been developed in partnership with the teaching profession, and</list>
<list>Paying experienced teachers more to work in schools that need additional support.</list>
<quote><para class="block">All of this is part of the Better and Fairer Schools Agreement that the Commonwealth and the States and Territories have developed together. It also includes targets and measures to make sure this money glows in the dark.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Minister for Education wants parents and teachers to know where this funding is going. That's why the bill and the Agreement strengthens the reporting and public transparency requirements around how taxpayer funding is invested, without placing additional burden on schools. The Agreement includes requirements for States and Territories to outline how the additional money is being invested in the key reform areas, and a new public reporting dashboard. And the Bill includes a new annual Ministerial statement to the Australian Parliament on the progress of school education reform agreements.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This is important reform. But it is just one part of the reforms we need to make to make our education system better and fairer. We need to reform higher education too. That's what the Australian Universities Accord is about. It's a blueprint print for reform to higher education over the next ten years and beyond. What it says is we need to build a workforce by the middle of the century where 80 percent of working aged people have a TAFE qualification or a university degree. And the only way to do that it says, is to help more people from poor families and more people from regional Australia get to university and help them succeed once they get there.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We also have to reform early education. That's what the Productivity Commission's report that was released on 18 September 2024 is about. What it says is that it's these same children, children from poor families, from the regions, from disadvantaged backgrounds, who are the least likely to go to child care or pre-school, and the most likely to benefit from it. And this, what the government is doing here, is the critical piece in the middle.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Helping those same children who start behind or fall behind, to catch up, keep up and help more children finish school. What the Prime Minister calls opening the door of opportunity.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">A country where no one is held back and no one is left behind. That at its core is what public education is about. What it has always been about. That's what this Bill is about. If you support lifting funding for our public schools you will support this Bill.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I commend it to the Chamber.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">WAGE JUSTICE FOR EARLY CHILDHOOD EDUCATION AND CARE WORKERS (SPECIAL ACCOUNT) BILL 2024</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Every day, parents trust early educators with the most important people in their world. And every day, Australia asks early educators to do one of the most important jobs imaginable. And they deserve a pay rise. That's what this bill helps deliver. A 15 per cent pay rise for up to 200,000 child care workers. A 10 per cent pay rise from December and then a further 5 per cent pay rise from the following December.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This is important. Because what happens in early education and care centres is important. It isn't babysitting. It's early education.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">90 per cent of brain development occurs in the first five years of life. Everything that you see, everything that you read, every meal, every smile, shapes and makes the people that we become.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The US President often makes the point that if a child goes to preschool, they're 50 per cent more likely to go to college or university. That's why this is so important. It's about this. And it's about respect.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Early educators have been asking for this for decades.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">And the Productivity Commission has told us that if we're going to build a universal early education system which makes early education affordable and available for more families, the first thing we need to do is this. There are 30,000 more early educators working in the sector today than when we came to office.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">But we need more.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">And this pay rise will help encourage more people to stay, more people to come back and more people to think about becoming an early educator. And more educators means more children and more parents can benefit from the life-changing work they do.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This bill sets up the Wage Justice for Early Childhood Education and Care Workers Special Account. This Account allows us to deliver a 15 per cent pay rise over two years through the ECEC Worker Retention Payment Program.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Let me put that in real terms. It means a typical early educator, paid at the award rate, will receive a pay rise of at least $103 per week, in December this year, increasing to at least $155 per week from next year. That's around $7,800 a year. A typical early childhood teacher will receive an additional $166 a week from December this year, increasing to $249 from next year.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">People who are thinking 'I love this job, but I can't afford to do it' will think 'well, now I can.' And people who've left the job to go and work at, maybe the local supermarket think 'I can go back to doing the job I love.' And, hopefully, it will encourage more people to want to be an early educator.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The CEO of Australia's largest early education provider, Goodstart, Ros Baxter said:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">"We expect that [this] announcement will see qualified early learning educators return to our sector, while encouraging others to establish </inline>a <inline font-style="italic">career in early learning. This in turn will help make more quality child-care places available for families who need it."</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Community Early Learning CEO, Michele Carnegie:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">"We expect this announcement will entice many qualified staff back into the sector. Families will see more places available and children will benefit from greater consistency of care."</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Early Childhood Australia CEO, Sam Page said:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">"This is </inline>a <inline font-style="italic">well overdue pay increase, and I </inline>am <inline font-style="italic">thrilled that the Government has acknowledged the professionalism of our educators during Early Learning Matters Week, where </inline>so <inline font-style="italic">many politicians have been out seeing first-hand the great work the early childhood sector does. Early childhood educators play </inline>a <inline font-style="italic">crucial role in the learning and development of young children, and this recognition is </inline>a <inline font-style="italic">significant step towards valuing their contributions appropriately."</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Early educator, Karen Moran, who the Minister for Education recently met, said:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"><inline font-style="italic">"this decision .</inline>..<inline font-style="italic">will change people's lives. It means that early childhood educators who've been relying on Foodbank to feed their own families won't have to do that anymore. And those that work two and three jobs just to make ends meet will be able to spend more time with their families. It's also about the recognition, which is </inline>so <inline font-style="italic">well deserved."</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This legislation doesn't just deliver a pay rise for early educators. It also delivers cost of living relief for parents and carers. As a condition of funding the wage increase, early education and care centres will not be allowed to increase their fees by a set amount over the grant period, with that amount set at 4.4 per cent up until August 2025. That's informed by the work the ACCC has been doing with the government—a combination of the wage price index and the consumer price index. That condition will be set out in a legally enforceable agreement between the Department of Education and providers.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Capping fee increases provides certainty to families and will keep a lid on fee growth. It also builds on our Cheaper Child Care changes. The changes that the government has already made have cut the cost of child care for more than 1 million families. Those changes that began in July last year means a family on a combined income of $120,000 today is now paying about $2,000 less in childcare fees than they otherwise would have had to.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This is also the next step in building the universal early education system that we want to create. Making it more accessible and more affordable for more children and more families. We need to reform our entire education system—to make it better and make it fairer. To help more people finish school and go to TAFE or university. But that reform doesn't just need to happen in our schools or our TAFEs or our universities. It has to happen here as well. And this is a big part of that. Helping to build a bigger early education and care workforce to help build a bigger and better early education system.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Minister for Education thanks the Prime Minister, the Treasurer and the Minister for Finance. Their leadership has made this possible. The Minister for Education especially acknowledges the work the Minister for Early Childhood Education for her unyielding work here and for everything she is doing to build a better and a fairer early education system.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">And finally, the Minister for Education thanks all the early educators across Australia who do this vital work. You deserve wage justice. You deserve this pay rise. You deserve this bill.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I commend it to the Chamber.</para></quote>
<para>Debate adjourned.</para>
<para>Ordered that the bills be listed on the <inline font-style="italic">Notice Paper</inline> as separate orders of the day.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Aged Care Bill 2024, Aged Care Legislation Amendment Bill 2024</title>
          <page.no>4746</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p>
              <a href="r7238" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Aged Care Bill 2024</span>
                </p>
              </a>
            </p>
            <a href="r7215" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Aged Care Legislation Amendment Bill 2024</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>First Reading</title>
            <page.no>4746</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:13</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McCARTHY</name>
    <name.id>122087</name.id>
    <electorate>Northern Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That these bills may proceed without formalities, may be taken together and be now read a first time.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bills read a first time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>4746</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:13</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McCARTHY</name>
    <name.id>122087</name.id>
    <electorate>Northern Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I table a revised explanatory memorandum relating to the Aged Care Bill 2024 and I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That these bills be now read a second time.</para></quote>
<para>I seek leave to have the second reading speeches incorporated in <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline>.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">The speeches read as follows—</inline></para>
<quote><para class="block">AGED CARE BILL 2024</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">INTRODUCTION</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The final report of the Royal Commission into Aged Care Quality and Safety was a damning assessment spanning five volumes, summed up in one word: neglect.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The report illuminated a systemically failing system where treating older people without dignity was normalised.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The report highlighted a sector mired in crisis due to a lack of ambition. Most Australians were shocked by the findings of the Royal Commission.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Commissioners pulled the curtains back on a macabre theatre left to decay in the dark despite best efforts of brave advocates.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">But others weren't surprised by its findings at all-the final report validated their trauma and painful lived experiences in black and white for all to read.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Royal Commission delivered a stern rebuke. It said we, as a nation, had let older people down.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">And yet it wasn't just about the past or the present. It was also about the future: tomorrow, next week, 20 years from now, and beyond.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Since the final report was tabled three years ago, 136 recommendations of the Royal Commission have been addressed—58 of which are directly addressed today, as part of this Bill.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This moment marks the most impactful aged care reform in 30 years. Today, we address Recommendation 1 of the Royal Commission-</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Today we introduce a new rights-Aged Care Act to replace the Howard-era, 1997 <inline font-style="italic">Aged Care Act.</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">A New Act to put older people, not providers, at the centre of aged care.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">REFORM TO DATE</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Since the election of the Albanese Government in 2022, we have worked hard to fulfil the mandate delivered by the Royal Commission.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The very first Act of the 47th Parliament was passing aged care legislation responding to the Royal Commission.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Its passage delivered a new funding mechanism for residential aged care, a sector-wide code of conduct, an expanded serious incident response scheme and stronger provider governance.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Implementing Care Reform amendment came shortly after, delivering greater transparency, capping home care fees and most importantly, putting nurses back into nursing homes.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The creation of an Inspector-General of Aged Care reinforced the Albanese Government's commitment to being open with the Australian public about how aged care is administered and how it is being reformed.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It demonstrated that we are holding ourselves to the same high standard that we expect of the sector.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We made aged care more transparent with Star Ratings for residential care, empowering older people and their families to make informed decisions.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The addition of the Dollars to Care program to Star Rating profiles holds providers accountable for how they spend their budgets.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">And... my proudest achievement to date as the Minister for Aged Care -the Albanese Government's $11.3 billion investment in a historic pay rise for aged care workers.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">These reforms have had tangible impact on the lives of older people and the friends, families and workers who care for them.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Right now, there is a registered nurse onsite in aged care 99 per cent of the time in Australia.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Older Australians are receiving an additional 3.9 million minutes of care every single day-1.7 million of which are delivered by a qualified, registered nurse.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">There has been a statistically significant decrease in the proportion of residents experiencing polypharmacy, antipsychotic medication use, falls that result in major injury, use of physical restraints, significant unplanned weight loss and consecutive unplanned weight loss.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Trend analysis for the most recent quarter shows that for the first time, the prevalence of one or more pressure injuries is declining over time.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We're also seeing improvements in the star ratings data, with fewer 1 and 2 star ratings and more 4 and 5 star ratings.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This is incredible progress, and I want to particularly thank the aged workers who have delivered this care.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">But there is more work to do. Our mandate continues.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Since 1997, aged care has been in a slow state of evolution. Some changes have been far-reaching and others incremental, but</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Jim Carey, a 94-year old aged care resident and member of the Council of Elders, said last month:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">"When you're building something, the first thing you need is a good foundation, and right now aged care doesn't have a </inline> <inline font-style="italic">good foundation."</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">And Jim's right.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Aged care doesn't need a renovation-it needs a revolution!</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">PERSON-CENTRED AGED CARE</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The primary focus of the 1997 Howard-era Aged Care Act is the funding and operation of aged care providers.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It lacks purpose, values and mission, and it lacks a focus on people.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">As the Minister responsible for one of the few service delivery portfolios in the federal government, I believe that's what aged care should be about: people.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We all have at least one person that immediately comes to mind when aged care comes up in conversation or on the news.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">A grandparent. A loved one. A neighbour. A friend.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I think about the residents I used to care for and the women who were my colleagues when I worked in aged care as a uni student.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Peg, who wanted prunes every morning as her first course of breakfast.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Daisy, a resident who lived in the secure wing and had a cat she lovingly looked after.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Sharon, who ran the kitchen while I pushed around the tea trolley.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Nia and Iris, who used to do the Sam to 1pm shift and then go to collect their kids from school.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Margaret, Sandra and my mum Deb, who worked in the office doing admin and rosters, and, because of staff shortages, had <inline font-style="italic">me </inline>do physio and diversional therapy!</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">But the 1997 Act does not take into account the lives of people like Peg, Daisy, Sharon, Nia, Iris, Margaret, Sandra and my Mum.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In fact, it barely even mentions <inline font-style="italic">people </inline>at all. That ends today.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The new rights-based Aged Care Bill, we are introducing, puts older people, and the services they need, front and centre.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It promotes positive attitudes towards ageing.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It empowers people with choice and control in the planning and delivery of their care.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It builds trust and confidence with strong regulation and complaints mechanisms that prevent mistreatment, neglect, and harm from poor quality and unsafe care.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The cornerstone of this bill is a Statement of Rights, underpinned by Australia's obligations under the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights and the Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Statement of Rights outlines what all Australians can, and should, expect from aged care.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Person-centred care that is culturally safe and trauma aware.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Dignity and respect.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Individuality and diversity. Independence.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Choice and control.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Dignity of risk.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Privacy.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The rights of older people will be embedded in care delivery, in the way workers are trained and the way people talk about the care they receive.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We heard that rights need to be enforceable—but also balanced.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Including a Statement of rights in this bill is not about opening the litigation floodgates.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It's about empowering older people to have conversations about the dignified care they deserve.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Under this bill providers must take all reasonable and proportionate steps to act in accordance with the Statement of Rights.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This is backed up by an enforceable registration condition that will make sure providers have practices in place to deliver care consistently with the Statement of Rights.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In plain English—if a provider breaches the rights in this bill, the Aged Care Quality and Safety Commission will have tough enforcement actions at its disposal.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill also introduces a new model to embed supported decision-making across the aged care system.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Supporting older people to make decisions for themselves for as long as possible is at the heart of this Bill-recognising that in a system that prioritises dignity and respect, the will and preferences of older people must always come first.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Because as Rosemary, an 84 year old aged care resident, said:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">"We are still people even though we are in aged care and we have the right to live our own lives and be treated with respect and dignity."</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">"The rights in the new Aged Care Act will give me more autonomy over my decision making and my daily life."</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">"We have been contributing members of Australian society all our lives and we don1t suddenly become inanimate objects when we enter aged care."</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">DUTY OF CARE</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In my previous job as a worker's compensation lawyer, I represented people who had been injured at work.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">And at the foundation of every claim was a simple legal principle—employers owe a duty of care to their employees to take reasonable steps to prevent harm.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It's a duty created to protect workers, because the inherent power imbalance between employer and employee can lead to physical and psychological injury. The Royal Commission was clear about the need to create a duty of care for providers, which will hold them and the people in positions of leadership accountable when things go wrong.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In line with their recommendations, this Bill includes new duties on providers and a limited group of people in leadership roles.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The duties mean that providers and responsible persons must not act in way that puts older people in their care at risk—or actually causes them harm.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The duties are carefully targeted towards the most egregious conduct.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Leaders who fail to fulfil their duty of care without reasonable exception will face significant civil penalties.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Good people, who understand the responsibility that comes with caring for older people, should in no way be deterred from taking on positions of responsibility because of these new duties.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">ACCESS</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill brings together the complex, multiple entry pathways criticised by the Royal Commission with a single, culturally safe, entry and assessment pathway.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Assessment will actively involve older people in discussions about the services they need.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">And the Bill continues our mission to take younger people out of aged care and into accommodation that meets their needs.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Right now, there is no statutory age minimum for aged care.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The result is that aged care has become the system of last resort. We've seen younger people, who aren't able to get the care they need elsewhere, relying on residential aged care as a safety net.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This bill, seeks to legislate, for the first time, a requirement that makes it clear that aged care is for older people—those who are aged 65 or over.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">For First Nations people and those who are homeless or at risk of homelessness and aged over 50, aged care is still available when all other options have been considered and the person chooses to enter aged care.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">STRONGER REGULATOR AND INDEPENDENT COMPLAINTS COMMISSIONER</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">A strong, capable and world-class aged care regulator is essential to ensure the sector can uphold best-practice for older people.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Royal Commission was critical of weak and ineffective regulatory arrangements that paid lip service to delivering high quality care.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Weak regulation lets down older people who fall through the cracks and also stunts providers.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">As a first step, the Albanese Government brought forward the Capability Review of the Aged Care Quality and Safety Commission to ensure the regulator has the right foundations, resources and support to meet its responsibilities, now and in to the future.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Of the 32 recommendations, 31 have been completed or underway, and the final will commence in 2025.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Today, we are introducing a stronger regulatory model that increases rights and protections for older people.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The new regulatory powers will ensure voices of older people and their advocates will be heard without fear of retribution, safe-guarded by powerful whistle-blower protections with financial penalties.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It will strengthen the Aged Care Quality and Safety Commission and empower it to act to maintain the integrity of the aged care system.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">For providers, the new regulatory model explicitly outlines what obligations they have and how they'll be assessed against them.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It will educate and support providers to continuously strive toward delivering high quality care, with new graded assessments and longer registration periods to encourage excellence.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">For older people, their family members, carers and advocates, and for workers, today we introduce a new statutory Complaints Commissioner, with powers and responsibilities <inline font-style="italic">independent </inline>from the regulatory commissioner.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">A voice to raise issues and have them heard and taken seriously; with the expectation that providers will work to address them, or face serious consequences.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">WORKFORCE</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It isn't just older people receiving aged care services, or aged care providers that will be affected by this bill-it is also the aged care workforce.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Among the many dark themes that emerged in the Royal Commission was that workers were systemically "underpaid and undervalued."</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">That "low wages and poor employment conditions" meant that the sector struggled to attract and retain well-skilled people.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">And that "unacceptable" staffing levels led to substandard care.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">A prejudicial bias became ingrained in our society which said that some work is inherently worth less, because of the type of people who do it.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This is arguably no more evident than in aged care—a system carried on the shoulders of women and migrants.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">One of the hallmarks of the Albanese Government's approach to aged care reform has been to recognise the value of all aged care workers.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The significant improvements we've made over the past two and a half years would not have been possible without the skill, care and tenacity of our aged care workers.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Without them we have nothing.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Workers like Emma, Nicole, Teresa and Suzanne from the United Workers Union.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Catherine, Sriti, Raju and Lobsang from the Health Services Union.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Jocelyn, Sue, Donna and Michelle from the Australian Nurses and Midwifery Federation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I want to thank these workers, and the hundreds of others who I have met in aged care homes and in Parliament to hear their stories and learn about their experience of how our reforms are being rolled out on the ground.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I see you, I hear your feedback, and here's what I'm doing about it.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">First, the Bill prioritises the training of well-skilled and empowered workers to deliver high quality care, including specialised dementia care.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Second, the Bill introduces new worker screening measures—an important step towards professionalising the workforce through positive registration.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Third, the Strengthened Quality Standards requires providers to engage with workers at a service level on workforce planning and delivery of care.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Fourth, the Bill is mindful to ensure that the Statement of Rights is balanced with the rights of aged care workers to have a safe and respectful workplace.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">SUPPORT AT HOME</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We know older Australians want the freedom, support and choice to remain in the home and community they love.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Our $4.3 billion investment in Support At Home will deliver better and more tailored support to more people.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Support at Home will cut wait times to receive in-home aged care services.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It will deliver more tailored support, with eight levels of ongoing care instead of four.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It will ensure faster access to assistive technology, like walkers and wheelchairs.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">And increase the maximum level of support available from $61,000 to $78,000.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Support at Home will offer a temporary boost in funding available to those who need restorative and allied health support to help them stay at home after an incident.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">And it will provide palliative care support to ensure older people can spend their final weeks at home, surrounded by their community and loved ones.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It's not an understatement to say that this will change lives.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Someone like Val Fell—a 93 year old dementia advocate and proud member of the Australian Government's Council of Elders.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Earlier this year, Val was admitted to hospital after she fell ill.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">When she was ready to return home, she was incorrectly told by the hospital she could only get an ACAT assessment if she was moving to residential care and only get temporary support at home if she kept her PIC line in.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In total, Val was in hospital for three weeks before she was discharged through the "hospital at home" program.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">And after she was discharged her daughter moved in with her to provide her additional support.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">That happened to Val—a fierce and articulate woman who understands the aged care system.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">If it can happen to Val, it can happen to anyone.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Support at Home will cut the time Val has to wait for in-home support.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Val will have access to restorative support, including a twelve week program guided by a multidisciplinary team of health professionals.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Our reforms will create better and safer care for Val and every older Australian.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">AGED CARE FINANCES</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">These reforms are important, and to deliver them, we need a sustainable funding system.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The time to act is here, our population is ageing.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In the next 40 years, the number of Australians aged over 65 is expected to more than double, with those aged over 85 to more than triple.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The great unanswered question from the Royal Commission was how to make aged care equitable and sustainable into the future.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">A question governments so far have been too scared to examine. Until now.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Last year, I assembled the Aged Care Taskforce to review funding arrangements for the sector, and develop options for a system that is fair and equitable for every Australian.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">For the first time, older Australians, consumer advocates, Unions, provider representatives and experts in economics, finance, public policy, ageing and aged care and First Nations came together.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">And in their final report, released earlier this year, they recommended that Australians make a reasonable means tested contribution to the cost of aged care.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">These reforms, based on the recommendations of the Aged care Taskforce, deliver a fairer aged care system, and foster quality and innovation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Some things won't change...</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government will remain the major funder of aged care. There will be no new taxes or levies.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">There will be no change to the means testing of the family home.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">And older people with low means will still be supported to access the care they need.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">But somethings will change...</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government will now fully fund <inline font-style="italic">all </inline>clinical care, while older people make contributions toward services they've paid for, or been responsible for, their entire lives, such as gardening, cleaning and personal care.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In Support at Home, you will no longer pay a flat weekly fee, you will make a contribution towards services categorised as 'everyday living' or 'independence'. The amount you contribute will be based on the pension status and means test and you'll only contribute to what you use.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In Residential Care, those residents who can afford it will now make contributions towards the hotelling supplement and non-clinical care based on a means test.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Accommodation pricing will also change. There will be an increase to the maximum room price, daily accommodation payments will now be indexed so their true value doesn't diminish, and people who pay with Refundable Accommodation Deposits will pay a 2% retention from the principle deposit for a maximum of 5 years.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This will ensure residential aged care providers can attract the investment they need to keep current facilities open, improve quality, and build new homes. A lifetime contribution cap for care costs will apply across the aged care system. No one will contribute more than $130,000 to their care costs -whatever their means or duration of care.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">And the no worse off principle will provide certainty to people already in or assessed as needing home care or already in residential care that they won't make a greater contribution to their care than they have already planned for.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Last June I said we needed to be ambitious for aged care...</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This bill delivers that ambition and, for the first time, delivers a sustainable Aged Care system where older Australians have more choice about where and how they age, and one where providers are able to invest and build for the future of aged care.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">CONCLUDING REMARKS</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">To conclude, I cannot overstate the importance of this moment and the task this Parliament has before it.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This bill has the potential to provide a new and enduring foundation for the Australian aged care system from 1 July 2025, and for years to come.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">From then on, aged care will put the rights of older people first.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The new Support at Home program will support all of us to live independently, in our own homes, for as long as possible as we age.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The aged care system will be fair and financially sustainable; with those who can afford it making contributions towards the cost of their own care.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Older people will be cared for by skilled workers who are properly respected and fairly paid.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This bill puts high quality, safe and compassionate care and services first.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It implements a system of caring for older people living with dementia that incorporates contemporary, evidence-based, care.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">And it delivers our election commitment for better, more appetising, and more nutritious food underscored by new food standards.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">But we cannot realise this potential if Parliamentarians do not come together and pass this Bill.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I would like to conclude by thanking the many advocates who have contributed to the development of this legislation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In particular, I would like to thank:</para></quote>
<list>The Members of the Aged Care Council of Elders -Anne Burgess, Tom Calma, Jim Carey, Lyn Cullinane, Gwenda Darling, John Davis, Anna Harrison, Val Fell, Gillian Groom, John Mccallum, Julie Rankin, Lynda Whiteway and Margaret Walsh. I would also like to acknowledge former member Major-General Vikram Madam who recently passed away.</list>
<list>The Council of the Ageing and Older Person's Advocacy Network</list>
<list>The United Worker's Union, the Health Services Union, the Australian Nurses & Midwifery Union and the Australian Nurses Union and the Australian Services Union</list>
<list>The Aged & Community Care Providers Association</list>
<list>The National Aged Care Advisory Council</list>
<list>The Department of Health and Aged Care's Expert Advisory Panel, Consumer and Sector Reference Groups</list>
<list>And the members of the Aged Care Taskforce.</list>
<quote><para class="block">In preparing this Bill, the Government considered over 320 submissions, 800 surveys and 14,500 separate points of engagement through webinars, workshops and roundtables.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Thank you to the older Australians, carers, workers, unions, providers, advocates and other experts who helped us get here.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">AGED CARE LEGISLATION AMENDMENT BILL 2024</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Today I am proud to introduce the Aged Care Legislation Amendment Bill 2024. This Bill will achieve three things. It will enable residential care data assurance reviews with respect to specified residential care data, mitigate the risk of breaches of section 83 of the Constitution and better provide for voluntary accommodation moves within a residential aged care service.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill will amend Chapter 6 of the <inline font-style="italic">Aged Care Act 1997 </inline>to enable the Secretary of the Department of Health and Aged Care, assisted by APS employees of the department and contractors, to conduct residential care data assurance reviews.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Modelled on the home care assurance reviews already enabled by the <inline font-style="italic">Aged Care Act 1997, </inline>residential care data assurance reviews will assure the completeness, accuracy and reliability of specified classes of residential care information and documents aged care approved providers submit to the Secretary. Residential care data assurance reviews will also inform better residential care policy and education for providers to provide complete, accurate and reliable data.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Residential care data assurance reviews will test the completeness, accuracy and reliability of specified classes of information and documents about residential care, and providers' procedures and documentation in relation to matters of a review. The Secretary may publish reports, that do not include personal information, on the findings, conclusions or recommendations of reviews.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">For the purposes of residential care data assurance reviews, providers and persons they employ or otherwise engage may be required to provide information and documents and to answer questions. Failure to respond to notices, or to provide reviewers with all reasonable facilities and assistance necessary, may incur civil penalties, including through infringement notices, reflecting the potential impact of non-compliance on proper administration of public funds.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Good data underpins good administration. Complete, accurate and reliable data resulting from residential care data assurance reviews will result in:</para></quote>
<list>better-informed care recipients making better choices about their care</list>
<list>better residential care subsidy payment integrity</list>
<list>better evidence about how extra funding, provided following the Royal Commission into Aged Care Quality and Safety, results in additional care</list>
<list>better risk targeting by the Aged Care Quality and Safety Commission when regulating approved providers</list>
<list>extra information about aged care costing and pricing.</list>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill will also amend Chapter 3 of the <inline font-style="italic">Aged Care Act 1997 </inline>and Chapter 3 of the <inline font-style="italic">Aged Care Transitional Provisions Act 1997 </inline>to introduce a stronger foundation for income and asset determinations, administered by Services Australia and the Department of Veterans' Affairs (DVA). These amendments will support care recipients by enabling an income and asset determination to be varied, and will also:</para></quote>
<list>better align processes and procedures used for the income and asset determinations,</list>
<list>introduce a provision to make it easier for care recipients to update their financial information with the ability for the updated information to be made either retrospectively or prospectively, and</list>
<list>enable the Government to use the information that is currently reported in the refundable deposit register for the purposes of calculating the means tested amount, verify that care recipients income and asset details are up to date and ensure their aged care fees are calculated correctly.</list>
<quote><para class="block">Finally, the Bill will amend the Aged Care Act to clarify the maximum accommodation payment that may apply for voluntary moves within a residential aged care service. This will encourage continued improvement in the accommodation stock.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The amendments to the <inline font-style="italic">Aged Care Act 199 </inline>7 and the <inline font-style="italic">Aged Care Transitional Provisions Act 1997 </inline>will ensure that the next phase of reforms is undertaken using a stronger information base than currently exists. This will enable the Government to make the right decisions based on better data integrity to achieve greater compliance across the residential aged care program.</para></quote>
<para>Debate adjourned.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Communications Legislation Amendment (Combatting Misinformation and Disinformation) Bill 2024</title>
          <page.no>4753</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <a href="r7239" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Communications Legislation Amendment (Combatting Misinformation and Disinformation) Bill 2024</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>First Reading</title>
            <page.no>4753</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:14</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McCARTHY</name>
    <name.id>122087</name.id>
    <electorate>Northern Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill may proceed without formalities and be now read a first time.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a first time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>4753</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:14</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McCARTHY</name>
    <name.id>122087</name.id>
    <electorate>Northern Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I table a revised explanatory memorandum and move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill be now read a second time.</para></quote>
<para>I seek leave to have the second reading speech incorporated in <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline>.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">The speech read as follows—</inline></para>
<quote><para class="block">Introduction</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Communications Legislation Amendment (Combatting Misinformation and Disinformation) Bill 2024 will amend the <inline font-style="italic">Broadcasting Services Act 1992 </inline>to protect Australians from seriously harmful online mis- and disinformation. The Bill also makes consequential amendments to the <inline font-style="italic">Australian Communications and Media Authority Act 2005, Telecommunications Act 1997 </inline>and the <inline font-style="italic">Online Safety Act 2021.</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In January 2023, the Albanese Government committed to providing the Australian Communications and Media Authority (ACMA) with new powers to create transparency and accountability around the efforts of digital platforms to combat mis- and disinformation on their services, while balancing the freedom of expression that is so fundamental to our democracy.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill delivers on that promise following an extensive public consultation process on the draft legislation to ensure the ACMA powers meet community and industry expectations.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill will increase transparency and accountability</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Digital platforms enable end-users in Australia and around the world to connect with family, friends, community groups and business, regardless of geographic distance. While this has brought significant benefits, digital platforms can also serve as a vehicle for the spread of misleading or false information that is seriously harmful to Australians.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The rapid spread of seriously harmful mis- and disinformation poses a significant challenge to the functioning of societies around the world. Democratic countries like Australia rely on the free flow of information to inform public debate, and the integrity, diversity and reliability of information is fundamental to our democratic way of life.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Mis- and disinformation about the stabbing attacks in Bondi Junction and recently in Southport, UK, are just two examples that illustrate the need for digital platforms to do more to prevent and respond to its spread.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">There has been a sharp increase in Australians' concern about misinformation, according to the <inline font-style="italic">Digital News Report: Australia 2024. </inline>This research, by the News and Media Research Centre at the University of Canberra, shows concern has risen to 75 percent, and is well above the global average.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Similarly, the Australian Media Literacy Alliance report on Adult Media Literacy released in August 2024 highlights that 80 percent of Australians want the spread of misinformation in Australia to be addressed.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In Australia, the digital platform industry has taken an important first step to address the threats posed by the spread of harmful mis- and disinformation online through the development of the voluntary Australian Code of Practice on Disinformation and Misinformation. But this effort is not enough.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The ACMA has continuously highlighted the need for industry to improve the quality of its monitoring and reporting against the voluntary code's outcomes, noting that a robust performance measurement framework is critical to its success.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The ACMA has found that the transparency reports made under the voluntary code lack consistent, trended, Australia-specific data on the effectiveness of digital platforms' efforts to address mis- and disinformation on their services.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">An independent assessment of the 2024 transparency reports noted that improvement of reporting under the code stalled and that signatories failed to meet their code commitment to have internally consistent key performance indicators.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In its 2023 report to government, the ACMA called on industry to take further steps to review the scope of the code and its ability to adapt quickly to technology and service changes. The code has only nine signatories—major digital platforms like X and Telegram are not signatories meaning there are wide gaps in coverage across the digital platform industry.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Digital platforms need to step up to protect Australian users from the threat of seriously harmful mis- and disinformation online. This Bill seeks to strengthen the voluntary code by providing a regulatory backstop.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill will empower the ACMA to review the effectiveness of digital platform systems and processes and will improve transparency about measures platforms have in place to protect Australians from mis- and disinformation on their services.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill will establish a proportionate, graduated and flexible regulatory framework, while at the same time safeguarding the freedom of expression that Australians hold so dear. The Bill also ensures that it is digital platforms that remain responsible and accountable for the content they host and promote to Australian users.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">To protect freedom of speech, the Bill sets a high threshold for the type of mis- and disinformation that digital platforms must combat on their services. That is, it must be reasonably verifiable as false, misleading or deceptive and reasonably likely to cause or contribute to serious harm. The harm must have significant and far-reaching consequences for Australian society, or severe consequences for an individual in Australia.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The types of serious harms in the Bill are:</para></quote>
<list>harm to the operation or integrity of an electoral or referendum process in Australia</list>
<list>harm to public health in Australia including to the efficacy of preventative health measures</list>
<list>vilification of a group in Australian society on the grounds of race, religion, sex, sexual orientation, gender identity, intersex status, disability, nationality or national or ethnic origin, or an individual because of a belief that the individual is a member of such a group</list>
<list>intentionally inflicted physical injury to an individual in Australia</list>
<list>imminent damage to critical infrastructure or disruption of emergency services in Australia, and</list>
<list>imminent harm to the Australian economy.</list>
<quote><para class="block">Core transparency obligations</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill will impose core transparency obligations on digital platforms requiring them to be upfront about what they are doing on their services to combat mis- and disinformation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Digital platforms will be required to publish their current media literacy plan setting out the measures they will take to enable users to better identify mis- and disinformation. This will empower Australian users to critically engage in the content they view on digital platforms, identify and respond to mis- and disinformation and to make more informed choices about how they engage with content.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Digital platforms will also be required to publish their current policy approach in relation to mis- and disinformation as well as the results of their risk assessments that identify and assess significant risks relating to mis- and disinformation on their services.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill will also allow the ACMA to create digital platform rules with additional transparency obligations, including in relation to media literacy plans, risk management plans and complaints and dispute handling processes.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Government amendments</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Government amendments made to the Bill will further enhance transparency of the actions of digital platforms in relation to mis- and disinformation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government amendments will enable the ACMA to make digital platform rules to establish one or more data access schemes that would require digital platforms to give independent researchers access to data for the purposes of research. The amendment will also provide new obligations for digital platforms to publish their policies or policy approach in relation to access by researchers to data relating to mis- and disinformation on the platform.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Information gathering and record keeping powers</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The ACMA will have the power to obtain information from digital platforms and make rules that require them to create and retain records relating to mis- and disinformation. This could include requiring digital platform providers to provide periodic reports to the ACMA.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Information gathering and record keeping powers will enhance transparency and allow the regulator to track the progress of digital platforms in addressing mis- and disinformation on their services. This will set a clear expectation that digital platforms must be transparent with the Australian public.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Importantly, the Bill also provides protections for Australian end-users. For example, the information gathering powers will not require individuals to produce information or documents to the ACMA except where they are a platform employee, content moderator, fact checker or a person providing services to the provider of the digital platform.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Code and standard making powers</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Under the Bill, the ACMA would have the power to approve codes and make standards to compel digital platform service providers to prevent and respond to mis- and disinformation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">A code or standard could include obligations to cover matters such as reporting tools, links to authoritative information, support for fact checking and demonetisation of disinformation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Approved codes and standards will be legislative instruments subject to Parliamentary scrutiny and disallowance.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">These powers could be used in the event that the ACMA determines that existing industry efforts to combat mis- and disinformation on digital platform services do not provide adequate protection for the Australian community.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In the event industry efforts to develop or implement an approved code have not been effective, or in urgent and exceptional circumstances, the ACMA would have the power to make an enforceable standard.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This is consistent with the proportionate and graduated nature of the Bill's framework.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Protections for freedom of expression</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">To ensure it strikes the right balance between upholding freedom of expression and combatting mis- and disinformation, the Bill has carefully calibrated definitions of serious harms that align with Australia's international human rights obligations.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill does not apply to professional news content or content that could be regarded as parody or satire. It also does not apply to the reasonable dissemination of content that is for academic, artistic, scientific or religious purposes.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In recognition that the community radio broadcasting also has industry standards relating to the accuracy of broadcast content, an amendment to the Bill includes explicit reference to rules covering community radio broadcasting in the professional news content exemption.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Nothing in the Bill enables the ACMA themselves to take down individual pieces of content or user accounts. The Bill takes a system level approach and digital platforms will remain responsible for managing content on their services.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Importantly, the Bill will enable the ACMA to require digital platforms to be tough on disinformation involving inauthentic behaviour such as bots or troll farms. This type of manipulative behaviour has been a major vector of foreign interference and is an ongoing threat to democracies across the world.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Penalties, enforcement and review of the legislation</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill will enable the ACMA to use a proportionate, graduated and risk-based approach to non-compliance and enforcement. This may include the ACMA issuing formal warnings, remedial directions, infringement notices, injunctions as well as pursuing civil penalties, depending on the severity of the action.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Digital platforms may be subject to civil penalties of up to 5 percent of global turnover for breaches of a standard and up to 2 percent for codes. These penalties are high. However, they may be necessary in response to egregious and systematic breaches and failure to act.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill requires a triennial review of the operation of the legislation. To improve oversight over the operation of the provisions in the Bill, the Bill has been amended to mandate that the reviews be conducted as independent reviews. A report of the review must be tabled in the Parliament and must follow a period of public consultation and an assessment of the legislation's impact on freedom of expression.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill also requires the ACMA to prepare an annual report for tabling in the Parliament on the operation of the Bill's framework.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Revised Explanatory Memorandum</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Explanatory Memorandum has been updated to incorporate the Government amendments in the House of Representatives, to make technical corrections, as well as to provide additional clarity on the Bill, for example:</para></quote>
<list>academics and comedians do not get an exemption for everything they say online</list>
<list>public debates about interest rates or economic policy are not intended to be captured</list>
<list>professional newspaper masthead websites are not considered digital platforms based on the primary function test</list>
<list>references to studies of European elections have been removed to clarify that serious harm in paragraph 14(a) is focused on the operation or integrity of an electoral process in Australia.</list>
<quote><para class="block">In addition, the Explanatory Memorandum has been updated to further emphasise that:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The intent of the Bill is to set a high and targeted threshold for the definition of mis- and disinformation. It does not intend to cover all dissemination of content that may be considered to be false, but rather, only focuses on dissemination of content (including asserted facts in opinions, claims, commentary and invective) that:</para></quote>
<list>is reasonably verifiable as being false, misleading or deceptive, and</list>
<list>is reasonably likely to cause or contribute to serious harm, and</list>
<list>has significant and far-reaching consequences for Australians, or severe consequences for an individual in Australia.</list>
<quote><para class="block">A recommendation made by the Parliamentary Joint Committee on Human Rights to provide details in the Explanatory Memorandum on potential remedies in the event of an alleged breach of human rights has also been addressed.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Consultation</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill has undergone considerable consultation, with a significant breadth and depth of engagement with key stakeholders, including from the digital platforms industry, legal and civil society groups, media and fact checking organisations, and research and academic institutions.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government thanks these stakeholders for their important contributions to the Bill which have ensured the Bill strikes the right balance between protecting Australians from serious harm and upholding freedom of expression that is so integral to our democracy.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Conclusion</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Through this Bill, the Australian Government is acting to prevent the spread of mis- and disinformation and the damage it causes to Australian democracy and public safety.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australians clearly expect the Government to act to address this growing problem and this is what the Albanese Government is doing.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill positions Australia to be at the forefront of tackling this growing international problem—one which threatens to undermine our civic discourse and democratic engagement and participation. This Bill ensures that digital platforms are accountable for combatting mis- and disinformation on their services.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The top priority of the Government is to keep its citizens safe. Doing nothing to protect Australians from seriously harmful mis- and disinformation online is simply not an option.</para></quote>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>281603</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>In accordance with standing order 115(3), further consideration of this bill is now adjourned to 25 November 2024.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>MOTIONS</title>
        <page.no>4756</page.no>
        <type>MOTIONS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Commonwealth Parliamentary Workplaces</title>
          <page.no>4756</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>4756</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Parliamentary Standards Joint Committee</title>
          <page.no>4756</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Membership</title>
            <page.no>4756</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo></subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BILLS</title>
        <page.no>4756</page.no>
        <type>BILLS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Australian Naval Nuclear Power Safety Bill 2024, Australian Naval Nuclear Power Safety (Transitional Provisions) Bill 2023, Crimes and Other Legislation Amendment (Omnibus No. 1) Bill 2024, Customs Tariff Amendment (Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership Expansion) Bill 2024</title>
          <page.no>4756</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p>
              <a href="r7104" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Australian Naval Nuclear Power Safety Bill 2024</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <a href="r7105" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Australian Naval Nuclear Power Safety (Transitional Provisions) Bill 2023</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <a href="r7172" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Crimes and Other Legislation Amendment (Omnibus No. 1) Bill 2024</span>
                </p>
              </a>
            </p>
            <a href="r7242" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Customs Tariff Amendment (Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership Expansion) Bill 2024</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Assent</title>
            <page.no>4756</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo></subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>4756</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Social Media and Australian Society Joint Select Committee</title>
          <page.no>4756</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Report</title>
            <page.no>4756</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:16</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON-YOUNG</name>
    <name.id>I0U</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>On behalf of the Social Media and Australian Society Joint Select Committee, I present the committee's second interim and final reports, together with accompanying documents. I seek leave to move a motion in relation to those reports.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON-YOUNG</name>
    <name.id>I0U</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate take note of the reports.</para></quote>
<para>This inquiry was a very busy inquiry. We had a number of hearings. We heard from experts right across the breadth of the sector—from tech experts and tech companies. We heard from parents' groups. We heard from young people. We heard from mental health and other communications experts. We heard from the mainstream media representatives as well. Truth be told, the terms of reference of this special inquiry were very long and covered a large number of things. We looked at the efficiency and effectiveness of the News Media Bargaining Code. We looked at the impact that social media was having on young people. We looked at the issues of mis- and disinformation. We looked at how tech companies respond to their obligations or social responsibilities. We looked at the impacts of scams online, particularly how they impact older Australians. There was a lot packed into this inquiry.</para>
<para>In our final report, a lot of the attention was given to social media itself and how we make these platforms safer, less harmful and better for members of the public and users alike. I want to point out very clearly that the most interesting thing about this final report is what is not in the recommendations. What is not in the recommendations is a blunt age ban on social media. That's not what we recommended. That's not what the unanimous report from this inquiry recommended. What we did recommend was a whole raft of things that could be done to tighten the screws on the big tech companies to improve their accountability and to make sure they are legally liable and responsible here on Australian soil. They must deal with the insidious, horrible nature of their data harvesting, where they sell data off to advertisers and supercharge algorithms. We looked particularly at how that relates to young people. The report talks about the need for a levy or tax on these big tech giants. But not one recommendation in this final report says that a blunt ban on young people on social media is a good idea. Why? Because we listened to the experts, and the experts' view is that it's not. The experts' view is that this isn't how you do it.</para>
<para>We heard directly from parents. As a mother of a 17-year-old, I'm very well aware of the concern and anxiety that Australian parents have about how much time our kids are spending on social media, the lack of guardrails that are there and the peppering of such direct, insidious advertising that tells them what they want before they even realise that they want it. There's also the super-charging of algorithms, the suggested posts, the suggested people to follow, the sucking in of the doomscroll that happens and the rabbit warrens that we all, as users, sometimes succumb to. We know that young people are being targeted by social media companies and we need to do something about it, but the experts didn't say just kick them off. The experts said we need to force these big tech giants, who are making massive profits—billions and billions of dollars—to make platforms safer. We need to make them responsible. We need to hit these companies where it hurts, and that is their business model. That's the advertising dollar and how they use that and how they use these secret, hidden algorithms.</para>
<para>One of the recommendations in this report is for a duty of care on social media and digital platforms. If your business model is an online platform and you have people coming there, you have a duty of care that that space will be a safe place for users. That's obviously really important for young people and children, but it's actually also important for everyone. If we make a safe platform work for everyone, that is better for children as well. There is a current debate about whether the government is going to bring forward its social media ban into this parliament within the next two weeks. I just urge you all—this inquiry took hours and hours and hours of evidence, and the evidence is really clear. Yes, we need platforms to be better, yes, they need to be regulated and yes, we need guardrails. It's the Wild West out there, and we have to put in place some law.</para>
<para>But telling young people to get off YouTube, TikTok, Instagram or Snapchat isn't going to make young people safer and protect them. We know what young people are like. My 17-year-old knows how to use a VPN. They get around it. That's not my main concern and that's not what the experts' main concern was in this unanimous majority report. It's what happens when they turn 17. What happens if we haven't made these tech companies responsible for the environments in which they operate for everybody? What happens when your daughter turns 17 and is dropped in the deep end of the ocean with no help, no guardrails, no digital literacy and no recourse to the companies to do the right thing?</para>
<para>Of course mental health experts have said to us over and over again that, for particular groups of young people—those who are vulnerable, those who have mental health issues or concerns and those who feel isolated from their community and perhaps can't talk to their family about what is going on in their life—connecting online with other young people who are going through the same thing is really important, and that actually saves lives. That's an important way of ensuring they get access to information—help that otherwise wouldn't be available. We heard over and over again from the young people themselves that being able to access this information online helped them, saved them and allowed them to get the assistance that they need—or to know that a friend of theirs needed some assistance and then to go and get an adult involved and say, 'Look, my friend over here is struggling.' We've got to be better than just the kind of grab-worthy, kneejerk reactions of these blunt instruments.</para>
<para>I tell you what: we had these big tech giants in front of us and we drilled them. They have no qualms or care about the relationship that they have with their users. They are making big bucks. For Australian families and members of the community right across the board—and politicians hear this all the time—the social licence of these social media companies is evaporating quickly. Now is the time to strike. Now is the time for us to put in place rules that protect young people, protect all users, create a duty of care, create legal responsibilities and charge the tax that these companies should be paying, because they're sucking a lot of money out of our country and out of the pockets of families and they give very little back.</para>
<para>If we don't make sure that these companies have some type of onshoring of their business practices and operations, they will continue to circumvent Australian law. We heard that from the business experts. We heard that from the legal experts. We need both a duty of care and the legal foothold to hold these companies to account. We can't just beg them to do it. Do you think Elon Musk, if we ask him nicely, is going to do the right thing? No, he's not. He doesn't care two hoots. He's too busy making money and sucking up to his mate Donald Trump. He doesn't care. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:27</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHOEBRIDGE</name>
    <name.id>169119</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I too rise to briefly take note of the report. I really want to thank my colleague Senator Hanson-Young for her work in doing what she, the Greens and the Senate can do in holding these big platforms to account.</para>
<para>Let's be clear about what a social media age ban means. It's an age-monitoring plan for everyone, whether you're 13, 15, 40 or 60. It's likely to be achieved by monitoring keystrokes, scanning faces and watching your hand movements. It will result in systemic privacy invasion of everyone, and for what? The government can't even tell us what the harm that they're targeting here is. If the harm is excessive screen time—and we know that that's harmful—then why aren't games and Netflix considered? If the harm is bullying—and we know that can be harmful online as well—then why on earth are messaging apps exempt from it?</para>
<para>The truth is this entire policy is a thought bubble from a government that's unwilling to have the hard conversations about making these online places safe; regulating big tech so that kids are safe; and educating young people and their parents on how to manage risk online, how to think critically about online content and how to set sensible boundaries based on evidence. Labor and the coalition, it seems, have given up on any kind of push towards digital literacy. No doubt it's because groups like—I don't know; let's name one at random—News Corp and the Murdoch media empire are pushing for this attack.</para>
<para>The government say they're spoken to parents about it, but what about the kids and teens who are actually going to cop the ban? What's their say? They have been completely silenced by both the coalition and the Albanese government. In fact, social media is where young people are getting their news. It's where they're rallying for change and building communities. They need tools to interrogate what they see and hear, and they need platforms that are designed to be safe, not just some 21st century prohibition pretending that the internet doesn't exist.</para>
<para>Does the Prime Minister want to explain what his government's plan is for a 16-year-old who has been banned from social media when they're 13, 14 or 15 and then is just launched into this same, unregulated, toxic space when they become 16? What's the plan, Prime Minister? What's your plan? There is none. It's a thought bubble.</para>
<para>The Albanese government might not like what young people have to say and they may want to silence their voices, but the Greens say that young people actually have a right to be seen and heard, including in this debate. Young people have a right to engage in public spaces, and, increasingly, for young people, that's online public spaces, which should be safe. If the government really wanted to look out for young people, they wouldn't say, 'Go and get a VPN and engage in an unregulated social media site as though you're doing it from San Francisco.' What they would say is that they're here to look out for young people and that they'll hold social media giants accountable for online safety. They will insist upon transparency in the algorithms, prevent kids' data being tracked and prevent them being targeted with advertisements from tech platforms that just want to commercialise the data that they rip off kids. And they would make the space safe.</para>
<para>What if they really wanted to make kids safe? Of course they'd take action on climate change and they'd address the housing and the cost-of-living crises. If this government were serious about looking out for young people, they'd start by listening to them. I seek leave to continue my remarks later.</para>
<para>Leave granted; debate adjourned.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BILLS</title>
        <page.no>4758</page.no>
        <type>BILLS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Better and Fairer Schools (Funding and Reform) Bill 2024</title>
          <page.no>4758</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <a href="r7253" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Better and Fairer Schools (Funding and Reform) Bill 2024</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Report from Committee</title>
            <page.no>4758</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:31</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CICCONE</name>
    <name.id>281503</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Pursuant to order and on behalf of the chair of the Education and Employment Legislation Committee, I present the committee's report on the provisions of the Better and Fairer Schools (Funding and Reform) Bill 2024, together with accompanying documents.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>4758</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Environment and Communications References Committee</title>
          <page.no>4758</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Reference</title>
            <page.no>4758</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:32</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON-YOUNG</name>
    <name.id>I0U</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>This reference is an important one. Last year, the parliament handed down a report by the late Peta Murphy. It was an important report, a unanimous report, that recommended a number of things to clean up the gambling industry in Australia because it does such harm to Australian families, to businesses and to our society.</para>
<para>At the time, the government said they would respond to the report in an appropriate time and would get on with the recommendations. Well, we still haven't seen the government's response. In fact, worse than that, what we have got is a glib reply—a suggestion that, despite all of the months' work that went into this report on the inquiry led by the late Peta Murphy, the government wasn't going to follow the advice. A full, total ban on gambling advertising is what was recommended, and the reason it has been recommended is because it is the single most important thing that this parliament can do to stop gambling's scourge on Australian society and families. 'A total ban': that means across television, that means across catch-up services, that means across newspapers and across radio, that means online, because, if you care about stopping the harm of gambling, you've got to stop pushing it down people's throats.</para>
<para>It's just like we've done with tobacco advertising. We said: 'You can smoke if you like, if you're of appropriate age. You can spend your money on a pack of smokes if you like. It keeps going up, but if you want to spend your money on that, fine. But we're not going to advertise these products and allow the advertising of these products, because they are dangerous and harmful.' The cost that this harm has on families and on our public health service is extraordinary. There's a litany of different types of disease and cancers alone which are caused because of smoking and addiction to tobacco, so Australia said, 'You know what, we're not going to advertise tobacco anymore because it's hurtful to people, it's harmful to people, and we certainly don't want kids being influenced by the advertising, and to take up smoking.' That is what was recommended by all of the experts for gambling. If it's harmful, why are we allowing it to be promoted? If it ruins families, why are we allowing it to be advertised? If it is one of the leading causes of domestic violence in this country, why on earth do we have ads on our televisions during family time, during the sport, when you're watching your favourite football team? We know that gambling harms people, so we should stop the promotion of it. I'm not suggesting for a second that we should ban gambling. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:36</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HODGINS-MAY</name>
    <name.id>310860</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Hanson-Young for this motion to establish a Senate inquiry into gambling harm. Why am I not surprised that the Greens are yet again doing the work that the Labor government should be doing to protect Australians from gambling harm? It has been over a year since the late Peta Murphy tabled the report of the House inquiry into online gambling—a report that gave a clear recommendation to end gambling ads across all media within three years. So what has the government done in response to this Labor-led inquiry and report? Nothing. In the year since this report was tabled, we have seen Albanese and his government delay responding and dodge their responsibility to act. We have seen Minister Shorten tell us that gambling harm isn't the same as tobacco. And now, we will likely see the Labor government vote against this Greens motion to establish a Senate inquiry and build on the crucial work of Peta Murphy's report, all while the gambling industry continues to profit off the misery of everyday people.</para>
<para>Australians lose more per capita on gambling than any other country in the world, gambling away a staggering $25 billion per year. But this doesn't even begin to capture the widespread harm this destructive industry is having on Australians. Nearly every week, I read or hear stories about people whose marriages have fallen apart, who have gone to prison, who have gambled away their homes, who have lost their jobs, families and friends, or who have been sent into a spiral of mental distress as a result of gambling. Gambling is destroying people's lives and it's destroying communities.</para>
<para>I want to take a moment to read this story from Ed, who shared his story with the Alliance for Gambling Reform and whose experience serves as a stark reminder of the dangers of gambling. Ed started gambling at just eight years old, and by 15 he was already feeling the devastating effects. Like many others, his struggle with gambling started quietly but gradually spiralled into life-altering consequences. After he stole money the first time, he couldn't stop. He said: 'I kept chasing my losses with more stolen money. Before I knew it, I was in a $1.8 million hole.' Ed's lowest point came when he found himself stealing from clients where he worked. He sank deeper into the cycle of gambling harm in a desperate attempt to recover lost money. His addiction continued behind bars with card games and bets on the footy offering a familiar yet dangerous outlet.</para>
<para>Fortunately, unlike many other gambling stories, Ed's story doesn't end in despair. He found the help he needed through a gambling support group. He finished his time in prison and is now an advocate for others in their journey to recovery. Ed wants to see stronger action from the government on gambling ads. He wants to see the government protect children and young people from being drawn into the dangerous world of addiction. He worries about the impact that gambling ads are having on young generations and the ease with which teenagers are exposed to gambling ads and inducements. He said: 'We need to educate kids about gambling, just like we do about drugs. By the time they turn 18 it might be too late. This is an epidemic waiting to happen.' Well, frankly, it is already happening.</para>
<para>Jacob's story from the Alliance for Gambling Reform is not too dissimilar. His father used to take him to watch the footy most weekends. It was there that he discovered sports betting. From the age of 16, Jacob started placing small bets at the stadium to add a little more excitement to the game he was about to watch. He watched a lot of sport on TV, so when gambling became accessible through the red button on his remote, he says he started gambling on games that he watched from home.</para>
<para>But it didn't stop there. He said, 'I would also pass a betting shop on my walk to and from school every day and would often duck in for a quiet punt on my way home if there were games on that evening.' He said, 'Once sports gambling became accessible to me via the internet and my phone, I started venturing into betting on all kinds of different sports outside of my usual.'</para>
<para>Jacob would spend his entire salary within the first week. He was forced to turn to payday loans to pay for his living experiences. He said, 'Eventually I realised this couldn't continue and I had exhausted all options to get money to pay my rent.' He still remembers the feeling he had confessing to his loved ones. 'It was like no other feeling I've experienced before. Guilt, shame, embarrassment, fear, sadness all rolled into one big feeling that makes you feel like you want to go to bed and never wake up again.' Like Ed, Jacob has now recovered. He has rebuilt his life and his relationships, and volunteers to help other addicts do the same.</para>
<para>These stories from Ed and Jacob demonstrate just how dangerous gambling can be and how easily children can get sucked in. Yet this government, and many governments before them, have failed to take any meaningful action to protect them. With a bit of courage and conviction, Labor could buck this trend and actually take meaningful action protect Australians from one insidious contributor of gambling harm—gambling advertising.</para>
<para>Gambling advertising not only fuels gambling, it normalises it. In just one year, one million gambling ads were aired on free-to-air television and radio, and that's not to mention the exponential rise in targeted ads across social media platforms. So when our kids sit down to watch their favourite match on telly, without realising it they've watched hundreds or perhaps thousands of gambling ads by the time they are 18 years of age. And then suddenly you have a whole new generation of gamblers in this country!</para>
<para>Research shows that gambling ads directly influence people's betting behaviour, and this is particularly true for young people and people at risk of gambling harm. It is incomprehensible that up to one-third of young people may be gambling before the age of 18. One-third of young people gambling before the age of 18—let that sink in. It's unfathomable just how embarrassingly wide the gap between policy and evidence is when it comes to gambling reform in this country. We know that gambling ads are insidious, a harmful tool being weaponised by the gambling industry to drag people into addiction. We know this; we've been told this by expert after expert.</para>
<para>Gambling ads are undermining the courageous efforts of problem gamblers doing everything they can to manage their addiction. How can you hear the stories of Ed and Jacob, of families broken and loved ones lost and come in this place time and time again and sit on your guilt-ridden hands? Shame! Shame on everyone professing to care while taking donations from gambling corporations and refusing to take action to reduce harm. People can see you. Read some evidence. Hear some witness testimonies. Look at the lead causes of domestic violence. Stop the excuses and stop allowing gambling harm to go unchecked on your watch.</para>
<para>In the face of Labor's inaction, the Greens have introduced a bill to ban gambling advertising in line with the Murphy inquiry recommendations. Now the major parties have an opportunity to take real action on gambling harm and make this bill law. While ending gambling ads is a critical step towards ending gambling harm, we know the damage does not stop there. The Greens are the only political party with a clear, comprehensive plan on gambling to take to the election. We want a national gambling regulator to ensure a consistent approach rather than just a patchwork of regulation that gambling companies and casinos can exploit. We also want to see a universal and mandatory precommitment system to protect those at risk of gambling harm. And we want transparency about the impacts of gambling, starting with clear reporting on which local government areas are hardest hit by gambling companies.</para>
<para>The Greens' plan goes further still. For far too long, effective regulation of the gambling industry has been obstructed by dirty political donations to the major parties. Last year it was revealed that one of Australia's largest betting companies, Sportsbet, paid $19,000 to Minister Michelle Rowland, now Minister for Communications and a key decision-maker for Australia's federal gambling policy before the 2022 election. Shamefully, Minister Rowland isn't alone. Recent analysis from the Alliance for Gambling Reform shows that at least 19 federal politicians have accepted hospitality from wagering companies to attend major events including the Melbourne Cup, the Australian Open, AFL matches and cricket games—and Taylor Swift concerts too, I'm told.</para>
<para>It is clear that the gambling industry is buying influence and favour, and the major political parties are only too happy to comply. The Greens have been pushing for an end to all political donations from gambling companies, amongst other destructive industries, for a decade, but the big parties refuse to bite the hand that feeds them.</para>
<para>Senator Hanson-Young's proposed Senate inquiry is an opportunity to shine a light on this insidious system. It is beyond time we stopped political donations from the gambling industry at all levels of government. The Greens are committed to cleaning up politics, which is why we want to ban dirty donations, cap all political donations at $1,000 and improve transparency regarding donations. Maybe with these reforms in place—just maybe—the Labor government will have the courage to act on gambling advertising. But, as I said, it is unlikely that Labor will support this motion today. It's unlikely that they will take any real action on gambling harm, particularly if it impacts their bottom line. They will continue to say it's too difficult, too complicated and too expensive. But people across Australia are sick of Labor's excuses; they are sick of inaction.</para>
<para>Australians want real change and effective regulation of gambling. They want policies like those of the Greens and actions like the ones we have taken in parliament to end gambling ads and establish a Senate inquiry. The Greens are ready to work with the government to deliver. We've only got a few days left of this sitting period. I urge the government to do the right thing: put a ban on gambling advertising and support this motion for an inquiry. These are things that the parliament could do and deliver this week. So today I ask the government: are you up for it?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:47</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BARBARA POCOCK</name>
    <name.id>BFQ</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak to the motion to refer the issue of gambling harm in Australian society to the Environment and Communications References Committee. I associate myself with the comments of my colleague Senator Sarah Hanson-Young, and I commend her for her tireless work in advocating for real gambling reforms.</para>
<para>This inquiry would examine a wide range of issues including the impact of gambling on Australian communities, families, and children; the influence of the gambling lobby and their dirty political donations; and the government's response to the Murphy review. Two years have passed since that review finished, but the government has yet to act on gambling reform. Experts overwhelmingly back a comprehensive ban on gambling ads and our communities are crying out for help. Something must be done.</para>
<para>Gambling comes in many forms: sports bets, poker machines, lottery tickets and online games—just to name a few. A lot of people think gambling is harmless fun or an intrinsic part of the Australian sporting culture, but gambling is a major public policy issue in Australia that affects the health and wellbeing of individuals and families in so many ways. Harm from gambling can manifest in relationship breakdown, poor physical health, mental and financial stress, job loss, crime, homelessness, and family related violence.</para>
<para>We also know that Australians have the highest gambling losses per person in the world. Queensland government data shows that Australia's gambling losses surged to $32 billion a year in 2022-23. This isn't a problem that affects just a handful of people; three-quarters of Australians have gambled in the last 12 months. For some, it's a benign activity, but about a million people either suffer or live with someone suffering from severe gambling harm. Many lose much more money than they can afford. Over half a million Australians have asked their bank to temporarily ban them from gambling. Low-, moderate- and high-risk gamblers all report adverse impacts from their gambling. These are sobering facts that clearly show that gambling is a public health issue in our communities.</para>
<para>In my state of South Australia, two-thirds of residents participate in gambling. We lose, on a per capita basis, $1,227 a year on average. South Australians are very concerned about the prevalence of gambling advertisements and want to see action. Most South Australians support tighter regulation of sports betting advertising, with 77 per cent saying that governments should take measures to reduce the amount of sports betting advertised. The Australia Institute has done research which shows that three in four South Australians agree that gambling advertising should be banned in sport. The president of the Australian Medical Association in South Australia, Dr John Williams, and academics from Flinders University who are experts in gambling addiction have signed a letter urging politicians to act. They have called, alongside many others, for strong national action to ban gambling advertisements. This would prioritise the health and wellbeing of the public above the profits of major sporting and media businesses in this country. I have also heard directly from my community that this is an issue and a problem that this Labor government must act on.</para>
<para>And what do the researchers tell us, along with those who deal with the harms arising from gambling? We need to listen to what they are spending many, many hours and a lot of resources gathering data on. For example, the work and experience of Professor Malcolm Battersby and Professor Michael Baigent—who are from South Australia's Statewide Gambling Therapy Service and the Flinders Centre for Gambling Research, which brings together Flinders Uni researchers and South Australian health treatment health services—points to findings that, for every problem gambler, six others are affected—family members who suffer directly, not just the gambler. It's a problem that causes suicides not only for gamblers but also for the affected family members they live with. Further, gambling ads are associated with increasing habits of gambling. They drive the problem higher. Gambling disproportionately affects, in all its manifestations, lower socioeconomic groups in our community, and it makes a real current cost-of-living crisis for those households and families who can least afford it—an average online gambling spend of $1,300 a year which impoverishes families. We need to honour this research and these service experiences and draw out the lessons for our policymaking here in the parliament. We must take action in line with what they recommend.</para>
<para>Gambling also affects our children. We know that children and young people are exposed to saturated gambling marketing in their everyday lives—one million gambling ads aired on TV last year. What shame! Our children are exposed to these messages daily. This directly results in one in five young women and one in seven young men becoming gamblers. They bet for the first time after seeing or hearing an ad on TV. The chief executive of Responsible Wagering Australia, the peak body for the industry, has rejected suggestions that advertising normalises gambling for children, but the gambling industry is one of the most innovative, health-harming industries of modern times. The gambling industry uses a predatory and systematic approach to try and get our kids to gamble. Gambling advertisements intentionally send messages to children that gambling is fun, it's exciting and it's a way to join with others and to get rich easily. Frequent exposure to gambling ads also makes young people think that gambling's normal and socially acceptable and a core part of sport. Seventy-five per cent of kids aged eight to 16 can name one or more sports betting companies. One-third of young people may be gambling before the age of 18. These are children as young as 10 years old, in this country, who are hooked on gambling and have lost thousands of dollars. This should not be the case. We must do much more to protect our children and our young people. These are some of society's most vulnerable, and there are clear things that this government could do to benefit the Australian community.</para>
<para>The Albanese government's decision to back down from a commitment to a comprehensive ad ban is beyond disappointing. It shows where they're loyalties lie—with the cashed-up gambling lobby. The gambling industry's pulling out all stops to prevent a full ad ban. They've thrived in a media landscape without regulation. As the chief executive of the Alliance for Gambling Reform, Martin Thomas, has said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… we have a grossly inadequate regulatory regime in which the gambling industry has been allowed to operate virtually unchecked, causing devastation to individuals, families and communities.</para></quote>
<para>Labor and the Liberals are all too happy to do their bidding, as they continue to receive millions of dollars in political donations from the gambling industry.</para>
<para>In addition to donations, they are also showering federal politicians with hospitality. At least 19 politicians have accepted hospitality from wagering companies to attend major events, including the Australian Open, Melbourne Cup, AFL and cricket. Who could forget when Sportsbet and bet365 paid for the lavish birthday lunch for the Minister for Communications, Michelle Rowland, who's partly responsible for regulating the industry, or when Sportsbet hosted Anthony Albanese at the National Press Club weeks before the 2022 election?</para>
<para>There is a long list of former politicians and political advisers who've moved on to represent the gambling industry. For example, former Labor minister Stephen Conroy became the CEO of Responsible Wagering Australia after leaving politics. Gambling companies profit off some of the most vulnerable people in our community. People affected by gambling harms can't wine and dine ministers like gambling companies can, nor can their families. They aren't well connected. They aren't corporate lobbyists.</para>
<para>This has an insidious effect on our democracy. We have to say no to the vested interests of powerful corporations. There's a clear path of action we recommend for the government. They could implement the recommendations of the parliamentary inquiry into online gambling and its impacts on those experiencing gambling harm, chaired by the late Peta Murphy. This multi-party report recommended, among other things, a comprehensive ban on gambling advertising with a phased approach. That is why the Greens introduced our Interactive Gambling Amendment (Ban Gambling Ads) Bill 2024 to the Senate a few weeks ago. This bill will ban gambling ads on TV, radio, print and online, consistent with the multi-party parliamentary inquiry recommendations.</para>
<para>Time is up. The public are sick of the excuses and delays, and the Greens are the only party with a clear plan to reduce gambling harm that goes beyond advertising bans to comprehensive national regulation. That's what we need. We're calling on the Labor government to urgently ban all gambling advertising across all of the media and all forms of gambling, to establish a national independent gambling regulator and to end the grip of the gambling industry in politics by banning political donations from gambling and other destructive industries. Labor's partial ad ban just doesn't cut it. Partial bans will only ever get partial results. The Labor government needs to put people before profit and urgently act on gambling harm. We banned tobacco advertisements in this country because they caused acute harm. Gambling companies profit from addiction, targeting our kids and wrecking families. We must do the same for gambling advertisements and ban them. It's time for Labor and for this parliament to listen to the experts, to respect public opinion and to put a full ban on all gambling ads.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:58</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The government does not support this referral. The Albanese government takes its responsibility to protect Australians seriously, particularly children and young people, from the harms of gambling. On the important issue of wagering advertising, the government has been clear that the status quo is untenable and that things need to change. The government's consultation process in response to the parliamentary inquiry into online gambling has been thorough, valuable and has raised additional considerations that we will continue to work through.</para>
<para>The government is focused on three key outcomes: firstly, reducing the exposure of children to gambling ads; secondly, breaking the nexus of wagering and sport; and, thirdly, tackling the targeting and saturation of ads. There's no doubt that every Australian family wants to enjoy sport, from the grassroots to the professional leagues, without being bombarded by gambling ads. It's certainly a feeling held strongly in my household, and I know it is for many other Australians. We want kids off screens and on the sporting field, and we want to restore the tradition of sport as family time. Parents across Australia need to have their confidence restored so they can sit down with their kids to watch their favourite team without being inundated by sports betting promotions.</para>
<para>It's important we get these reforms right, because, as we have seen in the past, bad policy design leads to bad outcomes. In 2018 the coalition's reforms saw a huge spike in gambling ads, and we have seen significant growth in online wagering ads since. It's also important to consider the multiple channels over which advertising is delivered—not just television and radio but also digital platforms and social media, where advertising can be targeted at vulnerable Australians. We've gathered the evidence about harms, we have assessed the impacts of various options, and we are now consulting on a proposed model. As a responsible government, we're taking the time to consult and ensure that what is proposed is effective and will not have detrimental unintended consequences.</para>
<para>As we work through these reforms, we have continued to deliver the most significant online wagering harm reduction initiatives of the past decade—things like banning the use of credit cards for online gambling, introducing new evidence based taglines in wagering advertising, strengthening classification of gambling-like features in video games to better protect children, establishing mandatory customer ID verification for online wagering, and launching the National Self-Exclusion Register, or BetStop, for problem gamblers, which more than 32,000 Australians have now registered with, with 40 per cent of those opting for self-imposed lifetime bans. We know that it suits the political purposes and political agenda of the Greens party to come in here and argue that Labor is not taking enough action on these matters, but even that list I've just supplied is a part of the action that this government has taken on online wagering harm reduction initiatives—more action than any government has ever taken in Australia's history.</para>
<para>The parliamentary inquiry that was chaired by the late Peta Murphy gathered a significant amount of valuable evidence, including from public health experts and people with lived experience of gambling harm, resulting in 31 recommendations. There is no need to repeat this process through another inquiry, which would simply waste people's time and divert valuable resources. The government understands the harms. There was good work done in the parliamentary inquiry, and we're considering those recommendations. It's why we've implemented more harm minimisation measures than any other government, and that's why we will provide a comprehensive response to the parliamentary inquiry outlining further reforms. Accordingly, the government opposes this committee referral.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>256063</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the motion moved by Senator Hanson-Young to refer a matter to the Environment and Communications References Committee be agreed to. A division is required. As it is after 6.30 pm, that will happen tomorrow. The debate is adjourned accordingly.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Legal and Constitutional Affairs References Committee</title>
          <page.no>4763</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Reference</title>
            <page.no>4763</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:03</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>256063</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Rennick, you can have a right of reply, if you'd like one, otherwise we will put the question on the motion.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:03</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RENNICK</name>
    <name.id>283596</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I do have a right of reply? Fantastic! I'll take it. I'm glad I'm given a right of reply, because I know that the Labor Party pushed back on my idea of having an independent judicial commission, despite the fact that they themselves support it. I think that we have seen many cases where judges are making decisions and, as one friend of mine who himself is a solicitor and who contacted me out of the blue said, being intellectually dishonest. I know, in the recent case with Senator Hanson, I have serious issues about that. Free speech is free speech. I know that that may go back to court, so I won't say anything more about that at the moment, but I do think that we desperately need someone to hold the judges to account in Australia. They don't have any oversight whatsoever. I have heard stories of some judicial decisions taking years to be handed down, which cost the people involved in those court cases a lot of money.</para>
<para>I would ask that the Labor Party support this motion. I think, in general, they do support a judicial commission but for some reason they don't want an inquiry into it. I think we need to have an inquiry and I would like Labor to bring this forward as policy before the next election. If they really wanted to clean up corruption and judicial integrity in this country, they would pass the legislation. What are we waiting for, guys? Let's bring it on.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>256063</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the motion be agreed to. A division is required. As it is after 6.30 pm, that will happen tomorrow. The debate is adjourned accordingly.</para>
<para>Debate adjourned.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BILLS</title>
        <page.no>4764</page.no>
        <type>BILLS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Universities Accord (Student Support and Other Measures) Bill 2024</title>
          <page.no>4764</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <a href="r7231" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Universities Accord (Student Support and Other Measures) Bill 2024</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>4764</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:06</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CICCONE</name>
    <name.id>281503</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>You are too efficient, Acting Deputy President Bragg. Unfortunately, I have to draw your attention to the state of the chamber.</para>
<para>(<inline font-style="italic">Quorum</inline><inline font-style="italic"> formed</inline><inline font-style="italic">)</inline></para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:09</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CHISHOLM</name>
    <name.id>39801</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank all senators for their contributions to this debate. This is an important bill that implements a number of the recommendations of the Universities Accord final report, a blueprint for reform of our higher education system for the next decade and beyond. The government has agreed to implement 29 of the 47 recommendations of the Universities Accord in full or in part. Some key ones are in this bill.</para>
<para>Firstly, it will wipe out about $3 billion worth of student debt for more than three million Australians by making indexation on debts fairer. It will ensure that growth owing to indexation on debt—including HELP and other student loans—does not outpace growth in wages by setting the indexation rate to the lower of the Consumer Price Index and the Wage Price Index. This change to the indexation rate will be backdated to 1 June 2023. That will provide significant relief for those with a student debt while continuing to protect the integrity and value of the HELP and other student loan system, which has massively expanded tertiary access for more Australians.</para>
<para>Secondly, the bill establishes a new Commonwealth prac payment from 1 July next year. This is expected to support about 68,000 eligible teaching, nursing, midwifery and social work students in higher education to complete the practical part of their degree each year. Practical training helps ensure that graduates have the skills and the experience they need to enter the workforce. A lot of students have to give up their part-time jobs or move away from home when it's time to do the practical part of their degree. For a lot of people that can mean delaying finishing their degree, or not finishing their degree at all. We need more teachers, nurses, midwives and social workers. We can't afford to have them drop out of their degrees because they can't afford to do prac. In line with the University Accord's recommendation, we are starting with students who are studying teaching, nursing, midwifery and social work as a priority because of the significant workforce shortages we need to address in those areas.</para>
<para>By establishing the new Commonwealth grants scheme funding costs for free university-ready courses from 1 January next year, this bill ensures that students can get the foundational skills they need to start a university degree and succeed when they get there. These are free courses that act as bridges between school and university. The former government tried a number of times to dismantle them; we are massively expanding them. We have committed an additional $350 million over four years to do this, and this is an ongoing funding commitment. It provides funding certainty for universities and it ensures that these courses will remain free for students. The Department of Education estimates that this will increase the number of people doing these free courses by about 40 per cent by the end of this decade and double that number in the decade after.</para>
<para>This bill also requires higher education providers that collect student services and amenities fees—the SSAF—to allocate a minimum of 40 per cent of that revenue to student-led organisations from 1 January next year, with appropriate transition arrangements for higher education providers that may require more implementation time. Last, but not least, this bill establishes the new Adelaide University. It facilitates the merger of the current University of Adelaide and the University of South Australia and supports their ambition and that of the South Australian government to become a global education and research powerhouse.</para>
<para>As the Minister for Education said, this bill helps with the cost of degrees. It also helps with the cost of living and, most importantly, it helps with the cost of so many young people missing out on the chance to go to university in the first place—in particular, young people from poor families, from the outer suburbs, and from the regions and the bush. I foreshadow a second reading amendment, and I commend this bill to the chamber.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>256063</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the second reading amendment moved by Senator Henderson on sheet 3048 be agreed to. A division having been called, I remind honourable senators that, when a division is called on Mondays after 6.30 pm, the matter before the Senate must be adjourned until the next day of sitting, at a time to be fixed by the Senate.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:14</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARUQI</name>
    <name.id>250362</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">At the end of the motion, add ", but the Senate:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) notes that:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) students are being shackled by a lifetime of debt which is making the cost of living crisis worse, locking people out of the housing market, causing people to delay having families and crushing dreams of going to university,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) the Government's plan to provide student debt relief will still see student debts rise by 11.5% in their first term and arts degrees costing over $50,000, as the Government has failed to address the Coalition's punitive job-ready graduates fee hikes,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(iii) the student debt system cannot be fixed because student debt should not exist and higher education, like education at every level, is an essential public good that should be free, universal and provided by the Government,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(iv) mandatory unpaid placements are causing students to forego paid work, choose between groceries, rent and medicine, drop out of universities and are taking an immense toll on students' health,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(v) students experiencing placement poverty need urgent relief and should be paid for every hour of work they are required to do as part of their degree, at least at minimum wage, not a lesser supplementary amount; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) calls on the Government to wipe all student debt, make university and TAFE free, and pay all students doing mandatory placements at no less than minimum wage rates".</para></quote>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>256063</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is the amendment moved by Senator Faruqi on sheet 3113 be agreed to. A division having been called and it being after 6.30 pm, the matter before the Senate must be adjourned until the next day of sitting, at a time to be fixed by the Senate.</para>
<para>For the benefit of all senators, there are second reading amendments which have been circulated by Senator David Pocock and Senator Tyrrell, but they are not here at the moment.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:16</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CHISHOLM</name>
    <name.id>39801</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I wish to move the second reading amendment standing in my name.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Henderson</name>
    <name.id>ZN4</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>We ask that the amendment be circulated. It's not appropriate that the amendment is not circulated and that the chamber is being asked to vote on an amendment that we have not seen.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>256063</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I'm sure the minister will circulate the amendment.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CHISHOLM</name>
    <name.id>39801</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>My understanding is that it has been circulated. I can read it for the benefit of the chamber.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>256063</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The amendment will be recirculated to all senators, and the minister can now speak to the amendment.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CHISHOLM</name>
    <name.id>39801</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">At the end of the motion, add "and, following passage of the bill, the following matter be referred to the Education and Employment Legislation Committee for inquiry and report by 25 March 2025:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The implications of any amendments circulated by the Australian Greens related to the reduction of HELP loans and changes to income thresholds for HELP repayments".</para></quote>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>256063</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the amendment moved by Senator Chisholm be agreed to. A division having been called and it being after 6.30 pm, the matter before the Senate must be adjourned until the next day of sitting, at a time to be fixed by the Senate. The debate is adjourned accordingly.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Education Services for Overseas Students Amendment (Quality and Integrity) Bill 2024</title>
          <page.no>4766</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <a href="r7191" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Education Services for Overseas Students Amendment (Quality and Integrity) Bill 2024</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>4766</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:18</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HENDERSON</name>
    <name.id>ZN4</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise today to speak on the Education Services for Overseas Students Amendment (Quality and Integrity) Bill 2024. This bill is yet another example of the Albanese Labor government's piecemeal approach to policymaking. It also tells us that Labor has badly botched the management of our migration system. This is a complete mess of the government's own making. The government's opening of the floodgates to record levels of international students is fuelling the housing crisis and causing unprecedented chaos in the international education sector. The migration and housing crisis is a crisis of the Albanese Labor government's own making. The situation we find ourselves in is a predictable consequence of successive policy decisions, a lack of strategic direction and a chronic inability to take difficult decisions in the national interest.</para>
<para>Labor's piecemeal approach does nothing to address the structural issues it has created. The proposed cap in this bill before the parliament will not even touch the sides of this problem. Labor has lost control of our migration system. According to the latest ABS data, net overseas migration is on track to have exceeded one million just in Labor's first two years, a record level and over 70 per cent more than any other two-year period. Net overseas migration was 925,000 in Labor's first seven quarters, and the latest available data shows the influx hasn't slowed. From January to September 2024, there were a further 391,815 net permanent and long-term arrivals, the highest September year-to-date on record despite Labor claiming all year that it was taking steps to get migration back under control.</para>
<para>Since the Albanese government was elected, based on the latest numbers, the number of international students studying in Australia has almost doubled. In May 2022, when the Albanese government was elected, there were 474,493 international students in Australia. By May 2023, this number had increased to 606,812, a growth of 28 per cent. At Senate estimates, just a few weeks ago, the Department of Education admitted that the number of international students has now risen in this country to more than 800,000—to 803,639. Some students are on their eighth, ninth or 10th student visa, using it as a backdoor to stay in Australia to work. As we know, many of these students then seek to leverage protection visas to extend their stay. Under Labor, 661 student visa holders have claimed asylum, with a record of 516 applications in August 2024. Fifteen per cent of all onshore asylum claims under Labor have been made by international students. That's 15 per cent of all claims.</para>
<para>While we have experienced record migration since Labor came to power, our housing supply isn't even close to keeping up. That drives up the cost of housing and rents, which further increases inflation as Australians endure so much cost-of-living pain under this incompetent Labor government. The Australian Bureau of Statistics highlighted that just 40,293 homes commenced construction in the second quarter of 2024, for a 12-month total of just 158,752 homes, the weakest year since 2012. In Labor's first two years, just 350,000 dwellings were completed. Yet Labor is on track to have brought in over a million net overseas migrants. What is Labor's plan to close this gap and free up desperately needed housing for Australians?</para>
<para>I want to also raise concerns about the cap because Labor talks a lot about the new overseas student commencement cap of 270,000, yet Labor does not talk about the number of exempt student categories, which in fact will drive up that number based on the 2023 figures to more than 400,000 new student commencements. That is because ELICOS is exempt, and in 2023 they had 89,186 commencements. Non-award courses are exempt, and there were 24,380 commencements in 2023. Schools are exempt. There were nearly 8,000 international student commencements in our school system in 2023. Higher-degree-by-research students are exempt, and there were some 6,991 student commencements in this category in 2023. The Pacific and Timor-Leste students are also exempt, and that is another 5,235 commencements based on the 2023 figures. There are several other exempt categories as well. So, based on the 2023 figures, we're not talking about new commencements of 270,000; we're talking about new commencements of well in excess of 400,000. So Labor is not telling the Australian people the full story.</para>
<para>We are in the midst of a housing and infrastructure crisis, while migration continues at a record pace on the Albanese government's watch. The Reserve Bank of Australia governor, Michele Bullock, has acknowledged the impact of migration on housing, for which supply can't rapidly expand to match supercharged demand, stating:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Yes, new migrants add to demand and there has been that element of it. They have certainly added to pressure on the housing market …</para></quote>
<para>The coalition has maintained the importance of a cap on international students, because of Labor's immigration chaos, but the Albanese government's approach is incompetent and riddled with secrecy and uncertainty. We know that this cap is not going to work. Based on the numbers presented by the government, numbers will go up, not down. We cannot support measures which will only serve to compound this crisis of the government's making. And that is exactly what this bill does.</para>
<para>According to ABS data, in September 2024 there were 47,230 international student arrivals to Australia, an increase of 2,130 students compared with the corresponding month of the previous year. The number of student arrivals in September 2024 was 4.3 per cent higher than the pre-COVID levels in September 2019. In a 12 November 2024 media release, the Institute of Public Affairs stated:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Net permanent and long-term arrivals from January to September 2024 was 391,850. This was the highest September year-to-date on record, above the previous record set in 2023, which was 390,580.</para></quote>
<para>The federal government is on track to have delivered, they say, 'an unsustainable migration intake' of over one million in their first two years—over 70 per cent more, as I say, than in any other previous two-year period. The flood of new arrivals is still continuing. Net permanent and long-term arrivals in the 12 months to September 2024 were also the highest on record, at 449,060 net arrivals. This is five per cent higher than the previous record set in 2023.</para>
<para>So this is an absolute mess—and, I have to say, after the Senate has conducted four separate hearings into this bill, when the government, using smoke and mirrors, had the temerity to announce this without providing any of the detail. And we saw the full impact of this. We know that this student cap that the government has proposed—which includes a whole range of exempt categories which, of course, are not included in the 270,000—is not going to do anything. We know, and we can see from this bill and the government's decisions to date, that the government is not serious about driving down migration. The government is not serious about fixing its own mess.</para>
<para>The government is not serious about giving more Australians access to affordable housing. During the Senate inquiry into Labor's immigration mess, we heard compelling evidence that 500,000 foreign students have been forced into the private rental market. This is not disputed by the government. Look at the big pressure points in Melbourne and Sydney, in suburbs like Glebe near the University of Sydney where foreign students now number 52 per cent of all students at least, from what we can ascertain. Rents have gone up in Glebe by 17 per cent in just 12 months. In Clayton, which is the home of Monash University, rents have gone up a staggering 20 per cent in 12 months. As I said, we heard compelling evidence about the mismanagement of foreign students and the impact that this has had on housing, particularly in large metropolitan centres. I also wish to reiterate that Labor's 'big Australia' policy has completely failed to safeguard the national interest—including the right to find an affordable home, to see a doctor and to access other essential services.</para>
<para>In contrast to this hapless Prime Minister and this incompetent government, a coalition government would deliver decisive action to reduce migration. By getting the migration policy settings right, the coalition could free up more houses for Australians, reduce congestion on our roads and relieve pressure on existing services. We absolutely cannot support measures which will only serve to compound the immigration and housing crisis of the government's making, and that's exactly what this bill does. As I said, in the four Senate hearings held as part of the inquiry into this bill, which we had to force the government to agree to, we heard so many stories from various stakeholders.</para>
<para>We know that this bill is smoke and mirrors. Imagine bringing forward a bill then the government putting forward a proposal to say, 'Don't worry, we're going to tackle migration.' We know that with the ministerial discretion inherent in this bill the minister can bring forward the cap that he chooses—which is of course what has occurred—and we know that that student cap is 270,000 plus at least another 100,000 who would come into this country in exempt categories; it may well be more than that. We also know—this has been suggested to me—that the government took an initial cap to cabinet of 250,000 and then apparently was telling stakeholders, 'Don't worry; we've given you another 20,000 on the cap.' As I say, this is smoke and mirrors. This demonstrates that this government has completely failed the Australian people. Every government has a responsibility to conduct its migration program in the national interest. This government has failed, and that is why we are opposing this bill.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:33</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARUQI</name>
    <name.id>250362</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>This bill to cap international students is the very definition of reckless policy. This bill, the Education Services for Overseas Students Amendment (Quality and Integrity) Bill 2024, is migration policy disguised as an education bill. It is a poorly thought through and chaotic plan to cap international student numbers. There was little or no consultation with the sector on the methodology which underpins this bill. It shamefully conflates the presence of international students with the housing crisis that they did not cause, it allows for unprecedented ministerial overreach and intervention, it harms international students and it damages Australia's reputation as a destination for international students. It will result in thousands of job losses, and it is dramatically bad for the economy. Capping international student numbers has little to do with quality or integrity. There is absolutely no redeeming feature in these international student caps. If you needed a manual on how not to do policy, you have it right here in this bill, courtesy of the Albanese Labor government and Minister Clare.</para>
<para>There is so much that needs to be done to pull the higher education sector out of the crisis that it has been in for years. The Labor government could have chosen to fully fund universities and TAFEs and ensure they provide secure jobs with fair pay and the best conditions for learning and teaching, but no. The Labor government could have chosen to provide proper funding for research, but no. The Labor government could wipe all student debt and make uni and TAFE free, but no. They won't even legislate to wipe the promised 20 per cent of student debt until after the election, in the hope of harvesting some votes. The Labor government could have chosen right now, when they are in government, to scrap the rotten Job-ready Graduates Package's massive fee hikes, which have piled so much debt onto students, but no. They did none of that. They did none of what is needed—what staff and students want and what universities need. Here they are, charging ahead with international student caps which no-one wants and which will be a disaster.</para>
<para>Let's be clear: what we have here is purely and simply migration policy disguised as an education policy. This is a politically self-interested move to win a race to the bottom with Mr Dutton's coalition on migration, and the Albanese government is willing to throw the whole tertiary education sector under the bus to win this racist race. Shame on you! International students have long been used as cash cows to prop up the sector, and now they are being used as scapegoats for the government's own policy failures. This is absolutely disgraceful.</para>
<para>It seems, though, that Labor's reckless and chaotic international student caps are finally dead in the water, as they should be. From day one, the Greens have been vocal in our opposition to these student caps, for all the reasons that I just articulated. Literally everyone except Labor was opposed to international student caps as well, because we know they will decimate the sector, harm international students, harm our reputation and result in massive job and economic losses.</para>
<para>Do you know why we know that these caps are a migration policy and not an education policy? Because it was confirmed when Minister Clare wrote to universities in September trying to strongarm them into submission and into agreeing with the caps to support the government's migration targets. The education minister is holding ministerial direction 107 over the heads of education providers, as if his government isn't responsible for that reckless ministerial direction in the first place. That ministerial direction is cruel, misleading and highly damaging to the sector. Now that Labor have egg on their faces, when this bill will not be supported in this chamber, the next thing they should do is also scrap the damaging ministerial direction 107 immediately so the higher education sector has some path forward to be able to survive.</para>
<para>In damning evidence, Luke Sheehy of Universities Australia described the international student caps in this bill as a 'political smokescreen' that is being used by the government 'to gain an upper hand in a battle over migration ahead of the next election', while Group of Eight CEO Vicki Thomson reported:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Migration is shaping up as a key battlefront in the lead-up to the federal election, and the university sector is shaping up to be the fall guy, unfairly and unjustifiably so.</para></quote>
<para>The government is trying to crush the higher education sector in a bid to look tough on borders in the months before the federal election. International education and international students in the higher education sector are becoming collateral damage as a result of this terrible policy. The calls for the government to engage in proper consultation with the sector have been loud and unanimous but have gone unanswered by this government. They did make a complete mockery of the inquiry process, often releasing key information the day after hearings had taken place and failing to produce any modelling on the impacts of these caps. Throughout the inquiry that involved four days of public hearings and almost 200 submissions, no-one from the government was able to point to any evidence that these caps are necessary to ensure quality and integrity in the international education sector. In fact, the government claimed these caps are about housing, about skills shortages, about integrity and quality, but none of these policy aims are reflected or achieved in the formulas that have been developed to create these caps. The absence of these purported policy outcomes shows how irrational and flawed this whole messy dog's breakfast is. The entire process has been rushed, opaque, chaotic and confusing.</para>
<para>In relation to the allocation of caps across the sector, with the exception of TAFE institutes, for every other provider—public universities, private universities, non-university higher education providers and private VET providers—there is no consistency in how caps have been allocated, even within those individual groups of providers. Many errors were identified in the allocation of caps and it is near impossible to see how these errors can be rectified in any way, shape or form prior to the government's proposed date of 1 January next year.</para>
<para>Following decades of underfunding by successive Labor and Liberal governments, universities have become disproportionately reliant on international student revenue and now the government is proposing to suddenly turn off that tap, with no-one having any idea of what student numbers could look like beyond 2025, and nothing on the table from the government to provide more funding to universities. Funds from exorbitant international student fees are used in universities to cross subsidise research and to support domestic students. This is a problem in and of itself. But cutting off this funding will also become a huge problem immediately as the revenues drop. We have already seen in just the last some weeks that universities have been announcing more than a thousand job cuts, with many citing international student caps as a contributing factor. Incredibly, other estimates put job losses in the tens of thousands, and the sole response from the government is that 'from a macroeconomic perspective, Treasury does not expect any job losses as a result of this bill'. Even more incredibly, no modelling has been provided for these claims, and no-one can assume that no detailed modelling was undertaken to determine specific impacts on the sector or on the economy.</para>
<para>Many universities are facing dire circumstances with the government already decimating international education for many providers through ministerial direction 107. I keep coming back to this because this is a horrific ministerial direction that needs to be scrapped right now. A number of smaller private providers gave evidence that the imposition of the caps would be catastrophic for the entire industry. Dr Ant Bagshaw, executive director of the Australian Technology Network of Universities, reported that the six universities he represents have lost over half a billion dollars in 2024 as a result of ministerial direction 107. Mr Paul Harris, executive director of Innovative Research University, similarly reported the disproportionate and unfair impact of the direction on the universities that he represents.</para>
<para>Furthermore, this bill is an attack on the fundamental principles of university independence and student choice. On the one hand, although not reflected at all in the methodology for 2025, the government has indicated that these caps will be used to steer international students towards areas of skills shortages in Australia. But then, on the other hand, universities' whose international student numbers will be capped quite drastically teach the courses which actually address the skills shortages. It undermines the government's own argument. For example, despite educating a significant number of international students that go on to work in Western Sydney's overburdened hospitals, Western Sydney University is facing a cut of up to 18 per cent in their student numbers for next year. Similarly, the Australian Catholic University is the largest educator of teachers and nurses in the country, and they are facing a 53 per cent reduction in international students from 2024 to 2025. This whole thing makes zero sense.</para>
<para>Canada implemented a cap on international students, and we know the results have been pretty disastrous and damning, with international student numbers falling far below the caps that have been set as students seek more welcoming options for study. Across the four days of hearings, witnesses explicitly, again and again, raised concerns about the serious damage this bill will do to Australia's reputation as a destination for international students. This damage has already started. Alec Webb, CEO of Regional Universities Network, described the government's changes as an act of economic and reputational self-sabotage. With high levels of visa delays and refusals, $1,600 visa application fees and caps that mean, even with an offer, you may not be guaranteed a place, it is clear that many students will no longer even consider studying in Australia.</para>
<para>Shamefully, capping international student numbers under the government's plan is fundamentally flawed in that it relies on a false narrative that international students are the cause of Australia's current housing crisis. Of serious concern and often lost in the debate is the impact of these caps on the students themselves. International students have long been exploited as cash cows to prop up university budgets in the absence of government funding, and now they are being scapegoated by the policy failures of both the coalition and the Labor governments. The harm this causes to international students and migrants cannot be overstated. In addition to the harm caused to the international students themselves, this rhetoric fails to account for the vibrancy, culture and diversity that international students bring to our campuses and communities.</para>
<para>Universities and private providers alike have been clear that the government's irrational international student caps will destroy tertiary education. It is clear that this bill by the Labor government puts politics before policy, despite all the evidence provided of the flaws, gaping holes and inconsistencies, the lack of consultation and the damage this policy will do. The government is pushing ahead with strangling the higher education sector in this disgraceful attempt to achieve migration outcomes, which has absolutely zero to do with international education.</para>
<para>On the final day of hearing, higher education expert Claire Field told the committee that it would be wrong to go ahead, and I couldn't agree more. Now Labor, hopefully, cannot go ahead. We pushed hard, and this flawed policy will, hopefully, never see the light of day. And I hope that there is a lesson here for Labor that they will learn. They must go back to the drawing board and come back with a plan to fully fund universities for research, for learning and for teaching. They must tackle insecure work and rampant casualisation at universities. They must tackle the corporatisation of universities, wipe student debt and make uni and TAFE free. These are the priorities—not some ridiculous international student caps, which, hopefully, are now dead in the water, as they should be.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:49</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHELDON</name>
    <name.id>168275</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak on the Education Services for Overseas Students Amendment (Quality and Integrity) Bill 2024. I want to take up the first issue. Senator Henderson raised a complaint about ELICOS students and how their numbers are blowing out in net overseas migration. But the reality is that ELICOS students do not contribute to net overseas migration, and there is a good reason for that. They are only in the country for three months. It's another example of how confused the coalition are on this. They don't have a plan on how to deal with the issues that this inquiry and this bill deal with. All they can come up with are misinformation and absolutely basic untruths.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Henderson</name>
    <name.id>ZN4</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>That's not true. You're just running lines.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHELDON</name>
    <name.id>168275</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Quite clearly, we've got the Greens on one side, and they want an open-ended situation, which actually disadvantages Australian students and many international students that come here. They want to have an open-ended approach. So you've got the Greens on one side, and then you've got the coalition on the other side with various different positions. We heard about many more positions again tonight, and I'll get to that in one moment.</para>
<para>I'll also address the fact that the Albanese government and Minister Clare have put forward and said very clearly what our second-term agenda is for student debt. We've been very clear about that to the Australian public.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>DYU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Sheldon, resume your seat. Senator Henderson, according to standing order 197, interruptions are disorderly. Please desist.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHELDON</name>
    <name.id>168275</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>As I said, the Greens have turned around and they want this open-ended approach, rather than making sure that we have a proper system, which this bill clearly starts bringing in. You've got the hard, mad Left on one side, and you've got the Right on the other side. Quite clearly, we've come up with the—I'll use the words—militant middle, which says that this is the right approach to take to get our education system on the right track.</para>
<para>This bill amends the ESOS Act to safeguard the quality and integrity of our international education sector and to provide the Minister for Education with the power to set limits on the number of international students that can come to Australia each year. The bill is the result of two years of consultation as part of the Universities Accord, which is a blueprint on how we can reform our higher education system to make a better and fairer system. We heard from prominent experts such as Professor Mary O'Kane, Jenny Macklin, Barney Glover, Fiona Nash and many, many more people who presented to that committee. The Universities Accord recommended:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That to address issues with the integrity and quality of teaching and facilities in international tertiary education and ensure that international education providers maintain their social licence to operate, the Australian Government—</para></quote>
<para>should be—</para>
<quote><para class="block">taking an evidence-based approach to issues including:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">i. managing demand volatility</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">ii. course concentrations and the quality of the student experience</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">iii. access and availability of affordable student housing.</para></quote>
<para>So you've got the Greens on one side saying, 'Let it loose,' and you've got the conservatives on the other side giving many different positions. But the only thing they are doing is politically making a point of trying to turn around and say, 'Whatever's brought up by Labor is wrong.' They're in a coalition, the 'no' coalition, when it comes to actually reforming this important sector of education.</para>
<para>The government has committed to implementing 29 of the 47 recommendations of the accord in full. An obvious first step is that the ESOS agencies who regulate the education sector need the power to drive out the shonky providers who lure international students here with false promises. This is a critical part of the bill, but those opposite want to shy away from it because they want to turn around and say, 'We're not backing the shonks,' whilst they back them. They are in this place backing some of the shonkiest operators, and I'll go to some of the reasons why in a moment.</para>
<para>This bill also requires education agent commissions to be transparent and requires new providers to demonstrate a track record of delivering quality education to domestic students before they can recruit international students. Those opposite don't want to tell you that either. That's what they're voting against—transparency of the rip-off merchants, the agent commissions and the shonky operators out there. They want to turn around and give them a free pass. That's what they're doing. That's what this bill is intended to rectify and will rectify.</para>
<para>The inquiry into the bill heard there was widespread support for these integrity measures, but there was not a word from those opposite. They're not making sure that we are doing the right thing. They don't back in these sorts of proposals. In actual fact, if they had a different view, they should've put it in their own minority reports. They should've put those views and put suggestions about what they thought should be happening in those reports, but, no, what they've done is simply make a shonky arrangement, allowing shonks to survive in this sector. Professor Attila Brungs, Vice-Chancellor and President of UNSW Sydney, said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">We support the government's intention in parts 1 to 6 of the legislation, which are around integrity measures to weed out unscrupulous providers who exploit students, which is excellent.</para></quote>
<para>Paul Harris, from Innovative Research Universities, told the committee that they support the 'ongoing work with the government to improve quality and integrity across the national education system'.</para>
<para>The integrity measures outlined in the bill are important to safeguard this critically important industry, but it's an industry that has lost community trust. The government has been taking this problem seriously, and the integrity measures in this bill are on top of a number of integrity measures that we've put in place since coming into office. We have introduced financial capacity requirements, implemented a genuine student requirement, increased the English-language requirements and issued ministerial direction 107, which is a directive to public servants at the Department of Home Affairs to process student visa caseloads based on the risk level of education providers and the student's country of citizenship.</para>
<para>Despite widespread support, the majority of this bill has been caught up in the hypocritical politicking of the Liberals and Nationals. The bill was referred to the Senate Education and Employment Legislation Committee in May this year. The inquiry was extended in August, and then extended again in September. They called for four committee hearings on this bill, delaying this debate and going over the same issues time and time again because they didn't want to be held to account for the measures that they're voting against.</para>
<para>The Liberals and Nationals tried to delay this bill—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Henderson</name>
    <name.id>ZN4</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>No, we didn't!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHELDON</name>
    <name.id>168275</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>not because they don't support a better planned approach to the national education sector, but because they see more political benefit in picking a fight than helping us to solve a problem they left behind!</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>DYU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Sheldon, resume your seat. Senator Henderson, interjections are disorderly. Senator Sheldon, I remind you to be careful about imputations of improper motives. You have the call.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHELDON</name>
    <name.id>168275</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Because there was more political benefit in picking a fight than helping us to solve the mess they left behind, they are talking out of both sides of their mouth—double-dealing the universities and registered training organisations. They criticise the government for this bill, but they've committed to go much further. Back in May, opposition leader, Mr Dutton, said in his budget-in-reply speech that, if elected, he will reduce annual permanent migration from 185,000 to 140,000. He called the current number of international students 'excessive'.</para>
<para>Senator Henderson said in an interview on talkback radio station 2CC on 2 September:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… what we are concerned about is the social license of our universities to bring in such large numbers of foreign students without having regard for the impact on the learning of all students.</para></quote>
<para>But then at the committee inquiry on 2 October, Senator Henderson described education providers as being 'grossly discriminated against'. So here you are; you can have both things happening at the same time. Push and pull. And her leader, Mr Dutton, told radio station 2GB on 26 September that international students are 'the modern version of boat arrivals'. That kind of inflamed rhetoric and dog whistling has a real impact on people.</para>
<para>International student Raghav Motani spoke to the <inline font-style="italic">Guardian</inline> about Mr Dutton's comments in an article published on 27 September. He said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Why are you using these words to describe us? What have we done that's unlawful? … We've not come illegally, we've not jumped borders, why are we framed like this? We're helping the economy, we're putting a lot of money into it. Protect us.</para></quote>
<para>Vicki Thomson, chief executive of the Group of Eight universities, also criticised the coalition policies in the <inline font-style="italic">Australian Financial Review</inline> on 17 May. She said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">At best, the message is 'you are not welcome here', at worst, it is trading off our great history of multiculturalism to play into a political narrative,</para></quote>
<para>We on this side make no apologies for wanting to return migration to pre-pandemic levels. This bill sets up a power to create a cap on the number of international students coming to Australia to study, and the national planning level announced by Minister Clare would mean that 270,000 international students can start a course in 2025. We want regional universities to benefit from hosting international students rather than them being concentrated just in metropolitan universities. We're not engaging in the kind of rhetoric the coalition is spewing because we value our domestic and international students. We want them to have a positive experience in Australia. We want international students to have a genuine cultural exchange, to be paid at least minimum wage if they are working and to not be forced into exploitative accommodation.</para>
<para>But we know this is not always the case. Operation Inglenook, conducted by Border Force and the Australian Federal Police, exposed that genuine education providers were colluding with disreputable agents to facilitate student visas and then funnelling them into criminal activities, including sexual slavery.</para>
<para>Debate interrupted.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>ADJOURNMENT</title>
        <page.no>4772</page.no>
        <type>ADJOURNMENT</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Forestry Industry</title>
          <page.no>4772</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>20:00</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CICCONE</name>
    <name.id>281503</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak about the important role Australia's sustainable forest products play in our recycling ecosystem. This is particularly timely because last week marked National Recycling Week. In Australia forestry is our sixth-largest manufacturing sector, contributing around $24 billion to our economy each and every single year. Forest industries directly employ around 80,000 people and indirectly employ another 100,000 throughout Australia, many of whom are based in fine regional and rural towns. These numbers will only increase, as demand for timber and wood fibre is set to quadruple by 2050. That's right—quadruple. Jobs in the forest industry cover many professions, including the planting and regeneration of forests, the management of forests, harvesting, transportation, processing, in the construction industry and the manufacturing of those paper products that we all hold dear.</para>
<para>Many of the products our forestry industry creates are recyclable and contribute to a well-functioning circular economy. Let us take paper products, for example, which can be recycled numerous times. When paper reaches the end of its life cycle, it can be composted and its nutrients returned to the soil. Timber and fibre processing facilities also recycle their timber residues, like sawdust, which is used as a renewable energy source to create heat and power, reducing the reliance on external energy sources. The full supply chain of Australia's forest industries is critical for the economy, the environment and our communities, particularly in our regions. Therefore, we must support this industry so that we do not rely on unsustainable forest imports that undermine Australian jobs and the global fight against climate change.</para>
<para>In September this year, the Albanese government took an important step in preventing transborder environmental crime with a bill passing the parliament to more effectively prevent illegally logged timber from entering the Australian market. These reforms will help trace illegally logged timber to its source and provide greater control at the border through new notice requirements and stricter penalties. The Australian Forest Products Association, the peak body that represents workers in the forest, wood and paper products industry, has backed these and strengthened the reforms. The association is also calling for improved consumer information for timber and fibre that states the country of origin and whether it comes from a sustainable Australian source.</para>
<para>Sadly, due to the native forestry industry closures in my home state of Victoria and in Western Australia, the industry has seen an increase in the volume of imported hardwoods. It is regrettable that, by shutting down our sustainable industry, local furniture and flooring manufacturers are now forced to source timbers from overseas forests with less stringent regulations than ours to make ends meet. I do note a lot of our fine timber now comes from the state of Tasmania, and a good friend of mine, Senator Duniam, who is also the co-chair of the forestry friendship group with me here in Parliament House, is standing up for our industry and standing up for jobs in regional Australia.</para>
<para>Australia's forest products sector is the world leader in sustainable forest management, and that is something we should be very proud of. We must retain our global reputation as a responsible supplier of sustainable and legally sourced timber products. Federal Labor recognises the significance of backing sustainable forestry, and that is why we announced just one month ago that applications are now open for the third round of the $74 million Support Plantation Establishment program. The funding will help farm foresters and the industry establish up to 36,000 hectares of new, long rotation softwood and hardwood plantation forests across Australia. Rounds 1 and 2 of the program have awarded over $15 million to 27 projects across Australia that will create over 8½ thousand hectares of new plantations.</para>
<para>With plantations making over 1.7 million hectares of our country's forest estate, more investment in new forestry plantations is a good thing to ensure that in the decades ahead we have enough resources to create the essential items Australians rely on such as house framing, flooring, furniture and packing. We all have an obligation to support our forest industry. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Shacklock, Mr Christopher Thomas (Tom)</title>
          <page.no>4773</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>20:05</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator COLBECK</name>
    <name.id>00AOL</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise tonight to pay tribute to a very longstanding friend of the Liberal Party in Tasmania who, unfortunately, left us over the weekend. Christopher Thomas Shacklock, known to us in the Liberal Party as Tom, passed away at the age of 87 over the weekend. Tom was a longstanding member of the Liberal Party in Tasmania, firstly in the seat of Lyons. He represented the Lyons electorate at state executive for many years with his offsider Reuben Radford. The sight of Tom and Reuben turning up to state executive meetings is something that we all recall, and their double act in defence of the agricultural sector is something that we all recall very fondly. He then moved to the electorate of Braddon and he was a member of the Devonport city branch—a branch that I'm a member of—for many, many years. Again, he was a branch delegate to electorate meetings and to state executive. The state council meeting this year was the first he had missed for many years, whether that be representing Lyons or Braddon.</para>
<para>Of course, he was a terrier at election times. Tom looked after our election signs and had that level of dedication where he would do the rounds of the signs in Devonport every morning to make sure they were still where they'd been the day before. If they weren't, he'd put them back up, repair them or replace them before most of the town were out of bed so that when everyone drove past the next morning the signs would be where they were supposed to be. He was recognised by the party for his work with a meritorious service award, which is a national award bestowed by the Liberal Party, in 2002, and he won the Braddon shield for his efforts in 2015.</para>
<para>He was not just a Liberal man—although he was pretty well known for that—he was a strong advocate in his community. Senator Ciccone was just talking about the forestry industry and the paper industry. Tom was a very passionate supporter of the forestry industry and the paper industry in Australia.</para>
<para>Tom would ring us with his opinions at all hours. If Tom had something he wanted to tell you, he'd ring and say it, and it didn't really matter what time it was. I recall when the RFA legislation passed in 2004, very early in the morning. I thought, 'Here's the opportunity to get one back on Tom.' So I rang him at four o'clock in the morning to tell him that the RFA legislation had passed, expecting that I might get some reaction. The reaction I got was one of delight. Tom was absolutely delighted that he was so important that he had to know, before anyone else who wasn't in Canberra, that the legislation had passed. He could start his rounds very early in the morning to pass the message on.</para>
<para>I was very privileged when Tom and his wife, Jean, asked me to confer Australian citizenship on them. He organised that at the Axeman's Hall of Fame in Latrobe. He was an absolute terrier in ensuring that facility got built; it was something that he was extremely proud of.</para>
<para>He was also very big in the agricultural sector. He was very proud of his stud cattle that he showed at the local agricultural shows. He was a real community advocate, someone who worked hard in the community. He was a man of strong faith, a faith that he shared with his wife, Jean, who passed away a few years ago. We were really sad to lose Tom. He was a loyal family man, and, most of all, he was a very good friend to us all.</para>
<para>I'd like to extend my condolences and those of my branch and party members in Tasmania to his daughter Angela and her husband, John; to his daughter Virginia and her husband, Gerhard; to his daughter Rebecca; to his son, Paris, who is also a strong contributor to the Liberal Party; and to his grandchildren and great-grandchildren. We've lost a strong and sound Liberal. Tom is back with Jean. May they both rest in peace. I'm sure they're keeping an eye on us all.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Cowra Public School</title>
          <page.no>4774</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>20:10</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'NEILL</name>
    <name.id>140651</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I want to associate myself with the comments acknowledging the fine contribution of an Australian citizen to the democratic process of this nation, albeit with a very different viewpoint to the one that I would be advancing. I acknowledge somebody who has passed from this life while I honour young people engaging in democracy in my contribution this evening.</para>
<para>On 25 September, Cowra Public School, in my beautiful duty electorate of Riverina, came to Parliament House and provided the findings of an investigation conducted by the year 5 and 6 students on the merits of renewable energy compared to alternatives such as nuclear power and fossil fuels. This analysis, which I have here with me in the chamber this evening, has been passed on specifically to me by the Prime Minister.</para>
<para>The students at Cowra Public School have been through a lot. In the last four years, they have experienced drought, bushfire smoke and record-breaking floods that split the town in half and devastated the neighbouring town of Eugowra. Climate change is as real for these students as attending school. That's why Cowra Public School students are overwhelmingly for the continued development and uptake of renewable energy, including solar, wind, hydro-pumped and geothermal electricity. The students understand that, compared to alternatives, renewable energy will bring down power bills, not produce greenhouse emissions and not create issues of long-term radioactive waste.</para>
<para>I appreciated the insights from Jason, who provided analysis of hydro energy and the effects of climate change such as rising sea levels, droughts, fires and heatwaves. Eve had some excellent insights on there being 341,000 wind turbines in the world, providing an emission-free, low-cost and efficient power source for Australia and the planet. Noah spoke to the abundance of solar in Australia, its potential usage in spacecraft and how it could be used to mitigate climate change.</para>
<para>The truth is that the students of Cowra Public School will experience Australia's transition to renewable energy in their lifetimes. Before they turn 50, Australia will, hopefully, be a net zero economy with employment opportunities and technological advances that we have no way of yet knowing. What I do know is that the Riverina will play a major role in Australia's green transition. In the pipeline are a variety of renewable energy hubs and storage solutions that will ensure the world of tomorrow will be powered from close to home on emissions-free technology.</para>
<para>Students of Cowra Public School, I want to thank you for your analysis. I intend to share these findings with my good friend the Minister for Climate Change and Energy, Chris Bowen, to urge him and the rest of the parliament to look into these results and continue with Australia's journey to 82 per cent renewables by 2030 and zero emissions by 2050. To the students: please continue to think deeply about problems of national importance and the state of Australia's democracy. As a former teacher over many years, I can assure you these are some of the most important lessons you will ever have.</para>
<para>I congratulate the teachers in the school for their leadership and just put on the record one paragraph from the students' teacher, who wrote to the Prime Minister: 'I reiterate my thanks to you for accommodating my request. It is such an incredible life lesson for students to see that in our democracy they must form opinions based on fact and that they have a right and the means to share that opinion with the highest office in the land.' These are two very different versions of contributions to democracy, but both are nonetheless signs that democracy is alive and well in this fine country of ours.</para>
<para>Senate adjourned at 20:14</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
  </chamber.xscript>
</hansard>