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  <session.header>
    <date>2024-09-10</date>
    <parliament.no>2</parliament.no>
    <session.no>1</session.no>
    <period.no>0</period.no>
    <chamber>Senate</chamber>
    <page.no>0</page.no>
    <proof>0</proof>
  </session.header>
  <chamber.xscript>
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        <p class="HPS-SODJobDate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
          <span class="HPS-SODJobDate">
            <span style="font-weight:bold;" />
            <a href="Chamber" type="">Tuesday, 10 September 2024</a>
          </span>
        </p>
        <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
          <span class="HPS-Normal">
            <span style="font-weight:bold;">The PRESIDENT (Senator </span>
            <span style="font-weight:bold;">the Hon. </span>
            <span style="font-weight:bold;">Sue Lines</span>
            <span style="font-weight:bold;">)</span> took the chair at 12:00, made an acknowledgement of country and read prayers.</span>
        </p>
      </body>
    </business.start>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>3631</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Tabling</title>
          <page.no>3631</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>3631</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Meeting</title>
          <page.no>3631</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:01</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>If there are no objections, the meetings are authorised.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BILLS</title>
        <page.no>3631</page.no>
        <type>BILLS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Australian Human Rights Commission Amendment (Costs Protection) Bill 2023</title>
          <page.no>3631</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
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            <a href="r7110" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Australian Human Rights Commission Amendment (Costs Protection) Bill 2023</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>3631</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:01</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GREEN</name>
    <name.id>259819</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I spoke briefly on the Australian Human Rights Commission Amendment (Costs Protection) Bill 2023 last night, and I'm very pleased to continue my contribution. As I said last night, this is an important bill that seeks to provide access to justice for victims of sexual harassment and other forms of discrimination in the workplace. To give a bit of background on this bill, we know that the Respect@Work national inquiry provided clear vision for addressing sexual harassment in workplaces across the country. It was an inquiry that listened to experts, advocates, legal experts and survivors. Its key finding was that our country needed to provide reforms to address sexual harassment within our workplaces.</para>
<para>This costs protection bill represents a key element of that vision because it recognises that financial risks of legal action are a significant barrier for individuals who've experienced sexual harassment within their workplace to pursue justice. Men and women who seek unlawful discrimination claims deserve to seek justice without unforeseen financial cost, especially if they are facing a big corporation or institution, which typically have better access to financial resources, information and legal support to defend the claim.</para>
<para>I feel it should go without saying that this legislation is crucial for the future of unlawful discrimination proceedings and the success of access to justice. The costs protection bill would be a reform that will enhance our justice system. It ensures that applicants could access discrimination claims without the risk of bankruptcy or debt for simply wanting to stand up for their rights. It sends a clear message that our community values the people who are standing up to receive justice and that the suffering that they have endured in their workplace should not be further exacerbated by financial inability. It provides greater certainty and stability to unlawful discrimination proceedings, which will be guided by a consistent approach to cost allocation.</para>
<para>It must also be acknowledged that this reform is part of a bigger picture to make our justice system more accessible. Our government is committed to addressing discrimination within our country and this reform is just one of the steps we're taking to support men and women who experience sexual harassment and violence. I do want to address some of the concerns that have been raised by those opposite, and I'll go to those in a moment. But I want to be really clear about what this bill does and why we've adopted the approach that is in this legislation. While an equal cost approach is widely accepted among experts, academics and survivors, there have been some concerns that the reform could encourage unmeritorious claims or encourage parties to look at the justice system rather than engage in conciliation or alternative dispute methods.</para>
<para>It must be emphasised that we have a legal system with robust mechanisms to filter out these types of claims. It is also commonly known that false claims of sexual violence sit at the two to five per cent range. This should not scare us away from introducing an equal-cost model. To address the concerns that have been raised—that people will turn away from alternative dispute resolution methods due to this bill—it is unlikely that not paying response costs will encourage a huge influx of these claims.</para>
<para>There are still many factors that individuals consider before seeking justice before the courts, including alternative dispute resolution. This reform will, rather, ensure that costs are not the sole reason an individual decides not to pursue an unlawful discrimination case, which is the way that things are at the moment. Costs are commonly the reason why an individual decides not to pursue an unlawful discrimination case. Pursuing justice in our courts is a right that every individual should have, and this reform is rooted in fairness and equity.</para>
<para>The Australian Human Rights Commission Amendment (Costs Protection) Bill 2023 is a reform that will change the lives of those that have experienced unlawful discrimination within our workplaces. By introducing this costs protection provision, the bill would alleviate financial barriers that currently discourage many from pursuing legitimate claims. It addresses the critical need to balance access to justice with those financial realities of our legal system and recognises that those who seek redress for discrimination should not be penalised by the risk of adverse costs.</para>
<para>We know that men and women who experience sexual harassment and make the decision to seek a legal claim deserve to seek that justice, without the concern that they will have to pay hundreds and thousands of dollars in legal costs for standing up for their rights. The bill is about reinforcing our commitment to justice, fairness and equality. It's also about making our workplaces safer, and it is about ensuring that every individual, regardless of their financial situation, has an opportunity to have a safe workplace, to seek that type of justice and to ensure that we stamp out sexual harassment in our workplaces forever.</para>
<para>By supporting this bill, we're making a significant step towards a more just and equitable society that supports survivors, and it gives them a pathway to ensure that they can seek justice if they are harassed at work. As I said at the beginning of my contribution, Deputy President, I am very proud of the previous work that I did, before coming to parliament, working with all types of workers across all types of workplaces, but the work that I am proudest of is sitting down with victims of sexual harassment in the workplace and working through with them the options they have and seeking justice on their behalf.</para>
<para>I know that, particularly, these women—we know more women are harassed at work—don't seek legal compensation or a legal claim without seriously considering all of the pathways available to them. I also know the incredible toll this takes on an individual. It means that they usually have to leave their work. They are usually subject to mental health PTSD types of long-term health outcomes because of the harassment they've received, and it makes it harder for them to work again and it makes our workplaces less safe for the women that come next time.</para>
<para>I'm very disappointed to see the views being put forward by some of those opposite. I know that there are principled views coming from some of those opposite, but I suspect we will hear some really disappointing views from the Liberal and National parties today about the idea that women make up claims, that this will somehow create an explosion in cases and that protecting victims in this way is a step too far when it comes to protecting women in our workplaces. It's just not true, and it is so separate from the reality of what victims go through when they make the really brave decision to stand up and say that something has happened to them at work and seek justice for it. For every single one of the claims that will be made by those opposite, those in this chamber should remember all of the evidence that we received during our inquiry into the Anti-Discrimination and Human Rights Legislation Amendment (Respect at Work) Bill 2022 and that was received during the Respect@Work inquiry. The decision by those opposite to not support this bill and make claims that it will make the justice system worse is another legacy of the shadow Attorney-General seeking to prevent the Respect@Work bill and the <inline font-style="italic">Respect@Work</inline> report recommendations being implemented.</para>
<para>The Respect@Work inquiry was historic, and it was delivered at a time when women were calling for real and decent change in our workplaces and in our homes. That report, containing 55 recommendations, sat on the shelf under the previous government and was never implemented. Our government sought to implement those recommendations. We've listened to the advocates, the women, the people that stand up next to them and the people that stand up for them, and this is the next step in developing that work.</para>
<para>It is really important today that we don't get lost in some sort of legal minefield that those opposite are going to try to create. What we need to make sure we do is to remember what this bill is about. It is about making sure that victims of sexual harassment and unlawful discrimination have a pathway to justice and that they are not precluded from seeking that because of the way that our costs system works at the moment.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:11</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SCARR</name>
    <name.id>282997</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>At the outset, I thank Senator Green for her contribution and also the way in which she chaired the inquiry into the Australian Human Rights Commission Amendment (Costs Protection) Bill 2023 and its predecessor. This issue has been dealt with in two inquiries of the Legal and Constitutional Affairs Legislation Committee, of which I'm the deputy chair. I also deeply acknowledge and respect Senator Green's history of standing up for and representing workers who've suffered awful instances of sexual harassment. I should also say, before I make my contribution, that I also deeply respect Senator Waters's continued advocacy in relation to these issues, including the safety of women in our community.</para>
<para>The other introductory comment I'd like to make is to recognise those working in the community legal sector who represent women who've been subject to sexual harassment. I want to read a quote from Ms Melanie Schleiger of Victoria Legal Aid, to put this in context:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Even more heartbreaking is telling a person they've got a really strong case and that we will support them all the way, but they can't proceed because it is taking such a heavy toll on their mental health. Sorry, I have been doing this for a long time and I know it has an accumulative negative impact when you see that repeatedly time and again. It feels like the system is so broken.</para></quote>
<para>So there are issues and, as a member of the coalition, I recognise there are issues with respect to the current costs system. My concern is that this is not the right answer. From the contributions of Senator Green and Senator Waters, those listening to this debate would be unaware that the costs model which is being introduced in this bill did not have the support of the former Sex Discrimination Commissioner Kate Jenkins in her <inline font-style="italic">Respect@Work</inline> report. She actually proposed a different costs model.</para>
<para>The costs model that's proposed in this report does not have the support of the Australian Human Rights Commission, a fiercely independent statutory body that actually works on a day-to-day basis in this space. It proposed a different costs model. The costs model proposed in this bill does not have the support of the Law Council of Australia, whose members represent people every day in this situation. So I say to those opposite, whilst they might warn about those on this side of the chamber raising issues which they consider shouldn't be raised: why haven't you, in your contributions, told those listening to this debate that the costs mechanism in this bill wasn't supported by Kate Jenkins in the <inline font-style="italic">Respect@Work</inline> report, wasn't supported by the Australian Human Rights Commission and wasn't supported by the Law Council of Australia? Just think about that. If you've got those three individuals and esteemed bodies all recommending against this model, doesn't that raise a question in your mind as to whether or not this is the right model?</para>
<para>The fundamental reason why those individuals and organisations didn't support this model is that they were concerned about the way the model is set up. It's called an 'equal-access model', but it isn't really. I should mention that the application of this model is not limited to sexual harassment. It applies to any claim under our discrimination laws. That includes section 18C which deals with giving offence in certain circumstances. It includes religious discrimination. It includes any discrimination. So it's not just sexual harassment: it's everything. This legislation sets up a model where I can make a claim and be unsuccessful, potentially on all counts, but I have required the respondent—or the defendant, if you like—to go through the legal process. They have had to go to Federal Court and spend, potentially, hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal costs, and they've lost time and incurred expense. I've failed, but that respondent, unless they meet some very, very difficult tests, can't claim costs against me. Does that sound fair? Someone can take you to court, and you incur hundreds of thousands of dollars in costs defending yourself. You're successful in defending yourself, but you can't claim your costs back. Does that sound fair? I don't think so. That's the concern I have with this legislation, and that's the concern that Kate Jenkins, the Australian Human Rights Commission and the Law Council of Australia had. And the thing that disappoints me is that we haven't had an acknowledgement of those concerns that have been raised, so it's very important that I put those concerns on the record.</para>
<para>Let me quote from Emeritus Professor Rosalind Croucher, former president of the Australian Human Rights Commission. I have so much regard for Emeritus Professor Rosalind Croucher. She was an outstanding president of the Australian Human Rights Commission. She was fiercely independent and held governments to account, no matter what their political persuasion. This is what she said. I'm quoting from page 39 of the transcript of the evidence to the inquiry: 'In the Australian Human Rights Commission's view, these models'—that is the model which was proposed by the Australian Human Rights Commission, which I'll talk about in a minute, and the model proposed by Kate Jenkins—'represent a more balanced approach to costs for claims of unlawful discrimination.'</para>
<para>So the Australian Human Rights Commission proposed a model where the court could actually consider a range of matters. It wasn't restricted in terms of what it considered, but it primarily considered the interests of justice in making costs awards. That's because it is so difficult, and I think we should be slow as a parliament to place a straitjacket around the discretion of our judges. The judge is the one hearing the case. Shouldn't they have the discretion as to who should pay the costs? I can't anticipate all of the different scenarios. That should be up to the judge to decide. That's where this bill will be an Australia-first precedent. Nowhere else under any court or tribunal system does this precedent actually exist. It will be an Australian first, and that deeply concerns me.</para>
<para>The Law Council of Australia said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The Law Council is also concerned that the equal-access model as proposed in the Costs Protection Bill was not recommended by the AHRC—</para></quote>
<para>the Australian Human Rights Commission—</para>
<quote><para class="block">either in its <inline font-style="italic">Respect@Work</inline> or <inline font-style="italic">Free and Equal</inline> reports.</para></quote>
<para>In the <inline font-style="italic">R</inline><inline font-style="italic">espect</inline><inline font-style="italic">@Work</inline> report, former Commissioner Jenkins said, 'Adopt the Fair Work Commission protocol,' which is that each party pays its own costs. In that case the applicant doesn't have to be concerned about paying the respondent's costs if the applicant is unsuccessful, unless certain particular circumstances occur. Then the Australian Human Rights Commission proposed a model where the court could actually consider what's in the interests of justice in the particular case. I prefer either of those two models to this model which says, 'Even if the applicant is unsuccessful on all counts, the respondent can't get their costs unless they can clear certain hurdles.' I'll talk about those hurdles, which I think are very unlikely to be cleared by any respondent.</para>
<para>So we have the government putting up a model which is not recommended by Kate Jenkins in her <inline font-style="italic">R</inline><inline font-style="italic">espect</inline><inline font-style="italic">@</inline><inline font-style="italic">W</inline><inline font-style="italic">ork</inline> report, which is not recommended by the Australian Human Rights Commission and which is not recommended by the Law Council of Australia, and that is deeply concerning. It is deeply concerning especially when both Kate Jenkins and the Australian Human Rights Commission presented models which in their view would address the underlying problem faced by claimants who in the vast majority of cases are genuine. Costs should not prevent any Australian going to court in relation to matters of this gravity, I absolutely agree. But this isn't the right model in my view, and there were some alternative models which I think would have been much better.</para>
<para>Let me run through some of the issues with respect to this model. Firstly, there is the impact on the prospects of settling discrimination matters. The Australian Human Rights Commission, which attempts to settle these matters on a day-to-day basis as part of its work, has said this model doesn't require someone who brings a claim to engage in Australian Human Rights Commission exercises to reach conciliation, to try and resolve it without it going to the courts. It also doesn't enable a court to take it into account if someone made an offer to settle but the offer was rejected and the matter ends up in court.</para>
<para>What about this scenario involving someone running a small business? This isn't a fantastical scenario. I practised law for 25 years, and I've seen situations like this. Just imagine that someone's running a small business, and one of their employees does something which they shouldn't have done. The employer, the small-business owner, wants to try to settle the claim. They make an offer to settle, but it gets rejected. It's a genuine offer, a decent sum of money—they want to move on. The applicant, the claimant, doesn't accept that offer, goes to court and ends up getting less than if they accepted the settlement offer, and the poor old small-business owner has to meet all of their costs and also the applicant's costs, even though they made an offer to settle. Does that make sense? Does it make sense that a small-business owner in that situation is treated the same as Westpac Banking Corporation or Commonwealth Bank of Australia or a company that's got a hundred internal counsel and billions of dollars of revenue? Does that make sense to you? It doesn't make sense to me, and it doesn't make sense to the Australian Human Rights Commission. It didn't make sense to the Law Council of Australia either.</para>
<para>The second issue which was raised was the unintended consequences on the operation of the Australian Human Rights Commission. The Human Rights Commission itself said that it could mean that defendants try and bring certain actions with respect to the Australian Human Rights Commission's process to try and stop matters going to court, and they're anticipating administrative backlogs and additional work. So one of the unintended consequences is that they spend more time and resources with respect to a particular matter. The reality of the matter is that the Australian Human Rights Commission do a wonderful job, but they've got limited resources, and they've raised that concern.</para>
<para>The third concern raised by a number of submitters to this inquiry was that this law doesn't apply just to sexual harassment cases. We heard moving contributions in this debate from Senator Waters and Senator Green with respect to sexual harassment cases. There are very vulnerable young women, particularly in certain industries, that are subject to sexual harassment and whose rights need to be protected, and they should be given every avenue to assert those rights and obtain justice. But this bill goes further. It goes to religious discrimination; it goes to matters under 18C of the Race Discrimination Act. It goes to every matter of discrimination, so a lot of faith based institutions have said: 'We're concerned that this is going to be weaponised against us—that organisations will bring claims against us, accusing us of discrimination as a charity or a not-for-profit education facility. We're going to be dragged into court, and our costs position won't be protected even if we're successful.'</para>
<para>The next point that's been raised is insufficient safeguards to protect charities, small businesses and individual respondents. There is a clause in this bill that tries to do that, and I acknowledge that. However, it has some serious flaws because, even if you're a respondent to one of these claims and the judge finds in your favour on every count, so you win, you've got to prove that you do not have—and this is the expression used—'a significant power advantage over the applicant'. The explanatory memorandum gives an example of a significant power advantage as the respondent being an individual applicant's employer. How can a small business—that potentially tried to settle something, couldn't get it settled, is dragged into court, goes to court and wins on all counts—prove that they don't have a significant power advantage as an employer over an employee? They can't. Practically, it's a nugatory protection, and there's nothing else like this in the law anywhere else. This will be the first time this principle is introduced into our system of justice.</para>
<para>Typically, and this is what I believe, everyone should be treated equally before the law. I think that's a fundamental principle. So I am very concerned about this cost model. It wasn't recommended by Kate Jenkins, it wasn't recommended by the Australian Human Rights Commission, it's not supported by the Law Council of Australia, and I think everyone in this chamber should reflect on those facts and consider it very, very carefully.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:26</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHARMA</name>
    <name.id>274506</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to associate myself with the comments of my colleague Senator Scarr and commend the work he did on the committee in scrutinising the Australian Human Rights Commission Amendment (Costs Protection) Bill 2023, because there are some serious concerns about the implications and consequences of this piece of legislation.</para>
<para>I would group them into five categories. Firstly and foremost, the bill does not follow the recommendation of the Jenkins report.</para>
<para>Secondly, it goes well beyond its original scope. It extends not just to claims of sexual harassment or discrimination but, as my colleague Senator Scarr just said, to any and all types of claims under discrimination law.</para>
<para>Thirdly, it removes the discretion of judges in the awarding of costs, which is an important feature of our justice system and is intended to take into account the wide variety of circumstances that exist between an applicant and a respondent in these sorts of matters.</para>
<para>Fourthly, it's likely, as the Australian Human Rights Commission and others have said, to inhibit the efforts to reach a settlement at an earlier stage of the dispute. In fact, if you're an applicant, it disincentivises you from reaching a settlement because the approach it encourages is one of all reward and no risk if you proceed down the path of litigation.</para>
<para>And, fifthly and finally, the legislation takes into account the characteristics of litigants in a way that is unusual, untested and sets a dangerous precedent. One of the features of our justice system is that justice is meant to be blind—that is, justice is meant to assess the law impartially without having regard to the characteristics of the litigants before the court. But what this legislation does is instruct the court to take into account whether there is a power imbalance, whether there is a financial imbalance and what means or resources a respondent has behind them in a way that renders nugatory this injunction that justice should be blind.</para>
<para>Now, undoubtedly, the main thrust of this bill is to address an important issue that was identified in the Jenkins review. During that review, the commission received several submissions urging them to insert a cost protection provision into the Australian Human Rights Commission Act, recognising that the current costs regime, where costs follow the event, can operate as a disincentive for pursuing sexual harassment matters under the Sex Discrimination Act. This is an important issue that should be addressed because we have heard—this parliament has heard and the Senate committee has heard—how complainants may be deterred from pursuing legitimate discrimination claims in the courts because of the risk that they will ultimately be liable for the costs of the respondent.</para>
<para>What the Jenkins review recommended in recommendation 25 was that the Australian Human Rights Commission Act be amended to insert a cost protection provision consistent with what exists in section 570 of the Fair Work Act 2009, which provides for costs only being awarded against a party by the court if 'the court is satisfied that the party instituted the proceedings vexatiously or without reasonable cause' or if 'the court is satisfied that the party's unreasonable act or omission caused the other party to incur the costs'. That is the recommendation of the Jenkins review. It basically recommends the importation of an entire provision very similar to that which exists in section 570 of the Fair Work Act.</para>
<para>But what we're dealing with in this legislation goes way beyond that. The scenario we have here is that, if a person takes a complaint to the Human Rights Commission and that ends up in the Federal Court, the bill says that the court must award costs to the complainant if they are successful on only one or more grounds. The complainant could bring a claim on five, six, 10, 11 or 12 grounds, but if they are successful on one or more grounds they should be awarded costs. That rule in this legislation is to apply in all circumstances to all cases except when the costs are incurred as a result of a complainant 's unreasonable act or omission.</para>
<para>The model also says in this legislation that the court must not award costs against the complainant unless some very narrow exceptions are met. The court can only award costs against a complainant and to a respondent if they are satisfied that the complainant instituted proceedings vexatiously or without reasonable cause or that the complainant's unreasonable acts or omissions caused the respondent to incur costs, and only if the respondent is successful in the proceedings if the respondent does not have a 'significant power advantage' or does not have significant financial or other resources relative to the complainant.</para>
<para>The way this bill is drafted means that, if a complaint is brought on 10 grounds and nine of those are dismissed, the respondent will still have to pay all the costs because they lost on that one ground. And, even if the respondent is successful on all counts—that is, the court finds no claim of discrimination or discriminatory conduct—they will not get their costs paid if they have a significant power advantage over the applicant. That would often be the case in employer-employee relationships. Nor will they get their costs paid if the respondent has significant financial or other resources. Again, that would often be the case because it will often be a corporation or a business that is the respondent in these circumstances.</para>
<para>What this bill does, effectively, is incentivise litigation and disincentivise negotiated outcomes because it removes any substantial risk for the complainant that they will need to carry the costs of the other side if their claim is unmeritorious or found to be without foundation.</para>
<para>The bill even removes the provision that allows the court, in assessing costs, to take into account offers to settle. That means that, if you have a complaint made against you and you make a good-faith offer to settle but the applicant chooses not to settle and ultimately their claim is unsuccessful, in the decision about whether costs should be awarded the court does not have the discretion to take into account the fact that there was an attempt to settle this matter earlier.</para>
<para>So, effectively, there is now no downside to pressing ahead with a low-prospect claim, and that will undoubtedly be exploited.</para>
<para>We heard from the Human Rights Commission during the inquiry into this bill their own concern that this bill would perhaps unintentionally take away their own ability to encourage early settlement of these disputes, rather than going to court. We heard similar concerns expressed by the Law Council of Australia as well.</para>
<para>I did want to read some of the comments that were made in response to that committee's inquiry because they bear it out quite clearly. The Human Rights Commission said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">As Australia's National Human Rights Institution, the Commission is concerned that the reforms proposed may have unintended consequences on the effectiveness of alternative dispute resolution options aimed at facilitating early resolution of complaints, including settlement offers and the Commission's conciliation function, and may impact on the Commission's role in stemming the flow of complaints that proceed to court.</para></quote>
<para>So here we have the Australian Human Rights Commission warning that this bill may well have unintended consequences, that it may well frustrate the early resolution of complaints, including settlement offers, and that it may well impact on the commission's role in stemming the flow of complaints that proceed to the court. We also heard from the Law Council of Australia, who said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The Law Council is concerned that the Costs Protection Bill tilts the balance overly in favour of the applicant and moves the financial risk and disincentive for unmeritorious claims to the respondents … the Law Council is concerned that the Costs Protection Bill reduces incentives for the parties to engage genuinely with the AHRC's conciliation processes and, later, in any alternative dispute processes available … It could also render offers of compromise and Calderbank offers ineffective.</para></quote>
<para>We have here legislation that is not actually doing what the Jenkins review recommended. It's not helping to level the playing field or remove disincentives to bring in legitimate sexual discrimination claims. Instead, it is going a lot further than that. In particular, I wanted to touch on one provision that is genuinely unprecedented in many respects, and that is the characteristics of the litigants, or the applicant and the respondent. This is the provision which would require the courts, when they're assessing whether costs can be awarded, to treat respondents differently based on their financial power or financial means. The Law Council had this to say about that provision:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Further, as a matter of principle, it is inappropriate for the courts routinely to treat parties differently based on their power or financial means relative to other parties, particularly where they have not engaged in unlawful conduct.</para></quote>
<para>But what this bill does is exactly that. You can be a respondent who has not engaged in unlawful conduct, and all the grounds on which a discrimination claim has been made have failed. You have not been found to have a case to answer. You may well have made earlier offers to settle this dispute through the Australian Human Rights Commission's conciliation procedures or other channels, but the applicant has denied to do so. Ultimately, if the court decides that you are, as the respondent, successful—that there is no case to answer—you will not see any of your costs recovered, you will not be able to recover any costs, if you have a significant power advantage over the applicant or if you have significant financial or other resources relative to the applicant. As I said earlier, this will almost inevitably be the case. If you had an employee suing an employer or a corporation that stood behind them, it would be hard for the court to find that you did not have a significant power advantage over the applicant or that you did not have significant financial or other resources relative to the applicant.</para>
<para>This strikes at the heart of the principle that justice should be blind—that is, it should not take into account the characteristics of litigants when making an assessment, the law should be applied impartially and we are all equal before the courts. Particularly, if you have not been found to have been at any fault whatsoever, the idea that things that are unrelated to your conduct should be taken into account by the courts, which is being alleged in this case—your financial means, your relative resources and whether you're in a position of high status within society—strikes at the heart of liberal democracies and the principle of the rule of law, the principle of equality before the rule of law. What it effectively seeks to do is import a power based calculus into a legal system that is founded, instead, upon the impartial application of principles.</para>
<para>Why has the government done this in this legislation? Why has the government gone significantly further than was urged in the Jenkins review, gone significantly further than recommendation 25 in that review, to import an entirely new test for the ordering of costs rather than to take on board that in section 570 of the Fair Work Act, as suggested in the Jenkins report? It goes beyond the original scope, extending not just to claims for sexual harassment or discrimination but to any and all types of claims under discrimination law and to removing the discretion of judges in the awarding of costs. Undoubtedly, this will have class action lawyers and litigation funders rubbing their hands together with enthusiasm because, unintentionally or otherwise, it will encourage unmeritorious claims, it will discourage early dispute resolutions and offers of settlement, it will add complexity and risk to the lives of anyone involved in commercial activity, and it will clog our courts with potentially quite unmeritorious claims in a way that goes way beyond what Kate Jenkins recommended in her review recommendations and that goes much further than what is required to remove what I accept are at the moment significant disincentives to the pursuit of sexual discrimination claims.</para>
<para>That is why I do not support this legislation as drafted. That is why the coalition has put forward an amendment which faithfully, comprehensively but not expansively seeks to implement recommendation 25 in the Jenkins review. I urge all in this chamber to study this legislation closely because it could well be the thin end of the wedge.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:41</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CHANDLER</name>
    <name.id>264449</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to also make a contribution on the Australian Human Rights Commission Amendment (Costs Protection) Bill 2023. This bill was meant to do one job: implement recommendation 25 of the <inline font-style="italic">Respect@Work</inline> report, the recommendation to create a simple cost-neutral jurisdiction in our federal courts and to remove barriers to women who deal with sexual harassment in the workplace. Recommendation 25 dealt specifically with pursuing sexual harassment claims in the courts, and a bill to address that recommendation would have undoubtedly had support right across this chamber. But this bill does not implement recommendation 25 of the Jenkins report. This bill does not implement a provision modelled on section 570 of the Fair Work Act. It is not aimed at sexual harassment in the workplace. Instead, it applies to all federal discrimination matters. That is a massive problem, because we know that federal discrimination legislation in this country is fundamentally broken.</para>
<para>Instead of protecting women, as the Sex Discrimination Act was intended to do, we now see in this country a situation where the act is used as a weapon to punish and silence women. We have seen that happen recently in the courts with the absurd situation of the Tickle v Giggle case, where an Australian woman has been punished and fined for starting a female-only app. The decision in that case makes clear that the courts will interpret the current legislation such that 'female' can mean someone who is biologically male. The courts found that sex is changeable and can relate to what clothes you wear or how you present yourself, which means that all the provisions in the Sex Discrimination Act which were intended to specifically allow and encourage single-sex services for women and girls are now all but impossible to rely on, which means that Australians who offer single-sex services for women and girls—services which millions of Australian women and girls rely upon—risk being taken to court and fined just for doing this. I am concerned that this bill will incentivise exactly that type of litigation we have seen in the Tickle v Giggle case, by protecting an applicant who wants to try and undermine something like single-sex services for women and girls from having to pay costs even if the vast majority of their claims are dismissed. It is very easy to predict how this will be used to target any organisations, clubs or volunteers who seek to offer single-sex sport for women, for example.</para>
<para>This bill presents a free swing in the courts for activists who want to force a sporting body to allow males into female sport. Thanks to the changes the Gillard government implemented in 2013, it's already incredibly difficult to offer single-sex sport, services or facilities for women and girls in this country. That's because the previous Labor government, the Gillard government, took the definition of 'woman' out of the act and severed the term 'sex' in the Sex Discrimination Act from its biological meaning, as the UN Special Rapporteur on violence against women and girls, Reem Alsalem, said last week in her statement on the Australian Sex Discrimination Act and the implications of the current interpretations of it:</para>
<quote><para class="block">I am also concerned that the court decision could make it potentially harder for women and girls to argue for the proportionality, legitimacy and necessity of female-only spaces in some circumstances. Even if unintentional, the ruling by the Federal Court may have made it potentially harder for women and girls in Australia to avail themselves of the full breadth of protections provided by the international human rights treaties that Australia is part to, including CEDAW and the ICCPR …</para></quote>
<para>Ms Alsalem correctly stated:</para>
<quote><para class="block">While the Act differentiates between the concepts of sex and gender identity, this distinction is abandoned in practice.</para></quote>
<para>It is inexplicable and nonsensical that the Albanese government, in full knowledge that federal discrimination law allows a woman to be punished in a court just for offering single-sex female services, has chosen with this bill to make it easier for activists to lodge those very complaints in the court by expanding the intention of this bill out far more broadly than the <inline font-style="italic">Respect@Work</inline> report originally recommended. These are the unintended consequences that we may see.</para>
<para>This bill was supposed to be about implementing recommendations specifically about sexual harassment complaints. The Albanese government has taken a political decision here—let's be very frank about that—to apply this to all discrimination complaints, in full knowledge that many of these complaints that we are seeing more and more of here in this country, such as in the Tickle v Giggle case, are being used to silence and punish women. The way the Labor government has quietly extended this bill to include all types of discrimination complaints rather than to be specific to sexual harassment cases is eerily similar to the way they removed the meaning of 'sex' and the definition of 'woman' from the Sex Discrimination Act in 2013. In 2013 it was never mentioned by the government that their changes would have the effect of enabling a court to punish a woman for offering a female-only service. Their changes would have the Sex Discrimination Commissioner telling the court that the way you dress helps to determine your sex for the purposes of the act. They didn't mention any of that, and, a decade down the track, Australians are seeing the consequences of that sneaky omission.</para>
<para>Today, again, we have a bill being presented as being purely about sexual harassment cases, when the reality is that the government has decided that the bill will apply to all discrimination complaints, including those that activists will bring against women who are trying to offer single-sex services, single-sex sports or single-sex spaces. What we should be seeing here today is a bill that doesn't do what it was supposed to do but goes way beyond that.</para>
<para>The way this bill has been drafted means that, even if a complaint is brought on 10 grounds and nine are dismissed, the respondent will still have to pay all costs, because they lost on that one ground. And as I've just referenced, a discrimination complaint can be brought under current legislation in incredibly dubious circumstances, such as to compel women to accept males into female-only spaces. If someone who was forced into a court for a complaint like that wins on nine counts and loses on only one, why should they have to foot the bill for the whole case, including the grounds they won on? How does that give the best effect to justice?</para>
<para>The bill leaves open the possibility that the respondent must pay, even in respect of grounds that are unsuccessful, because these are all part of the same proceeding. If you are successful on any ground, you recover all your costs, and if you lose completely, all you have to do is bear your own costs. If you make 20 complaints or 20 claims and you succeed on just one, this bill leaves open the possibility that the respondent will be forced to pay for all of them. And it means that, in effect, there is no downside to pressing ahead with a low-prospect claim.</para>
<para>Again, if we're talking about claims of sexual harassment, that was a recommendation of the <inline font-style="italic">Respect@</inline><inline font-style="italic">W</inline><inline font-style="italic">ork</inline> report and we understand why the government would want to do it, but what they propose here today goes so far beyond that that it's not even funny. This bill takes a different approach to what was recommended. It does not implement recommendation 25 of the Jenkins report and it does not implement a provision modelled on section 570 of the Fair Work Act. It's not aimed at sexual harassment in the workplace. Instead, it applies to all federal discrimination matters and it would become a catch-all provision extending into matters far beyond the recommended scope and intent. The government is not being up-front today about why it has done this and why it didn't want to bring in a bill that actually would have dealt with the scourge of sexual harassment in this country.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:50</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'SULLIVAN</name>
    <name.id>283585</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>As we've heard from several speakers from the coalition, the Australian Human Rights Commission (Costs Protection) Bill 2023 is a bill that should—should—be implementing recommendation 25 of the <inline font-style="italic">Respect@Work</inline> report. For those who are following and interested, recommendation 25 was:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Amend the Australian Human Rights Commission Act to insert a cost protection provision consistent with section 570 of the <inline font-style="italic">Fair Work Act 2009</inline> (Cth).</para></quote>
<para>Section 570 of the Fair Work Act says, in summary, that in a case related to the Fair Work Act a party can only be ordered to pay the other party's legal costs if certain conditions are met. The party may be ordered to pay the costs only if (a) the court believes the party started the case just to cause trouble—vexatiously—or without a good reason, (b) the court believes the party did something unreasonable that caused the other party to incur extra costs, or (c) the party refused to take part in a related matter before the Fair Work Commission, and that refusal was unreasonable. The <inline font-style="italic">Respect@Work</inline> report made 55 recommendations across a range of areas, many of which have now become law with the coalition's support. But this bill takes an entirely different approach to what was recommended in the Jenkins report. It does not implement recommendation 25 from the Jenkins report. This bill does not implement a provision modelled on section 570 of the Fair Work Act. It deviates from what was recommended. It's not singly aimed at sexual harassment in the workplace either; instead, it applies to all federal discrimination matters.</para>
<para>For some reason, the Attorney-General has allowed for the possibility that, if even one part of a complaint is upheld, the individual or business may be required to cover the costs of the rejected portions of the complaint. This makes it extremely troublesome for people in this space. It will become a catch-all provision extending into matters far beyond the recommended scope and intent. The overreach here is of serious concern, grave concern. The costs that would be imposed upon individuals and organisations—without the necessary protections, without the narrow scope that is required, as recommended by the Jenkins report—puts this bill into the 'very dangerous' category. The Attorney-General is trying to dress up this bill under the guise of sexual harassment in the workplace, but it goes much broader than just sexual harassment. We know that this bill is aimed at more than that. It is another Labor bill that seeks to overreach.</para>
<para>Unfortunately, we're seeing this time and time again with legislation that comes into this place, whether or not it is through poor drafting. I think there are some occasions where it's an oversight. We can give them the benefit of the doubt. Maybe through their haste and folly they've rushed through legislation and the considerations haven't been properly thought out. And then there are moments, like those we're seeing with this bill, when it seems that there is an intended outcome for it to be overreaching and for it to go far beyond the scope that Jenkins recommended, and that's what we're seeing here.</para>
<para>My concern is that this bill will have unintended consequences, particularly for people of faith. It's difficult to give this government the benefit of the doubt when it comes to matters of religion and matters of religious freedom. We've already seen their first disastrous attempt when it comes to protecting religious freedoms. That attempt, quite rightly, led to a backlash from many sectors of the faith community. It has been quite an extraordinary display that the faith community have made and quite an extraordinary step that they have taken. By their nature, they turn the other cheek. By their nature, when it comes to people of faith and faith community groups, there's a particular predisposition to be meek and mild, but they were forceful in their opposition to the government's plans when it came to the religious discrimination bill.</para>
<para>The government, shamefully, have turned their backs on faith communities across Australia. I'm glad they're not implementing the bill that they did plan to bring before this place; the Prime Minister has ruled it out so far. I'm glad that that's not happening, because that would've been a retrograde step for people of faith and the faith community, particularly religious schools. I'm glad that that's not happening, but I am very disappointed, as are faith groups and faith communities across Australia of all persuasions—not just Christian but Muslim and Jewish—that the government isn't providing the protections through a sensible bill.</para>
<para>Faith leaders came together—again, across the broad spectrum of religious communities. Different faiths came together and made recommendations to the Attorney-General and to the Prime Minister on what could be done to provide those protections. They've put forward a very sensible, workable list, but this government has run away from that. They don't want to have the fight with the left within their party. That's shameful, because a commitment was made before the election to provide people of faith with the protection that is necessary. So I don't have a lot of faith in this government at all when it comes to matters of religious freedom.</para>
<para>Now, the Australian Christian Lobby, in their submission on this bill—and I want to have this recorded in the <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline>—made a very powerful point. They said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill will have disproportionate, extremely adverse impact on Christian and faith-based schools and educational institutions if, as the Government appears intent upon, the exemptions in the SDA are to be removed, or reduced so they have no value in enabling such institutions to operate in accordance with their ethos.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It would make discrimination law activism virtually cost and risk free for complainants.</para></quote>
<para>I will just interject at that point: who then, therefore, bears the cost? It will, of course, be those organisations. They go on to say:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Australians may be financially ruined for things that should never have been alleged under discrimination legislation in the first place.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">…   …   …</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The result of the Bill in that context would be that Christian and faith-based schools and the like will become exposed to an entirely new range of discrimination claims under the SDA simply for operating in accordance with their ethos … Christian schools remain a highly popular choice among Australians. The problem is that their ideology does not fit with Labor's current ideology.</para></quote>
<para>The burden of costs and the implications of this bill will be borne, in the instances that I've raised, by those within the faith community, particularly faith based schools. What does that mean? It means their insurance costs will go up. That, in turn, will mean, of course, that the fees that are paid by parents who are making the choice to send their children to that school will also go up. At a time of a cost-of-living crisis, this is the worst decision that could ever be made, on a cost basis. But when it comes to freedoms in this country, it is damaging to have a bill such as this.</para>
<para>This bill takes an entirely different approach, as I said at the start, to that which was recommended in the Jenkins report. Labor have used the recommendations of that report and have decided to add in some of their own formulation when it comes to this bill. Now, it's within their rights; they're the government. But we're belling the cat here. It is outrageous, what they're doing, by extending it and making it much broader and wider. Once again, Labor is targeting people of faith. The cost model proposed in this bill differs from the Australian Human Rights Commission's recommendations. As Senator Paul Scarr, my good friend and colleague, the chair of the committee that looked at this, said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">There is strong evidence that there are issues with the current system that need to be addressed. There is largely consensus in this regard. However, there is no consensus with respect to the costs model which should apply to proceedings commenced under Part IIB, Division 2 of the Australian Human Rights Commission Act1986 …</para></quote>
<para>There are unintended consequence in this bill that the government have not adequately addressed. Therefore, the coalition stands in opposition to this bill because it does not advance protection from discrimination in the way that it should and in fact will increase the number of vexatious claims that are made against people. You can use the processes of the Human Rights Commission to frustrate, to add costs, to add burden to organisations that maybe you've got an ideological opposition to. It is reprehensible, and it is something that should not proceed.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:01</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CANAVAN</name>
    <name.id>245212</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>There are a lot of challenges facing our country right now. It's a pretty tough time for most Australians to just pay for basic things. Going to the supermarket has become a stressful exercise for many as they don't know if they have enough money in the bank. It's also hard for them to stay in their home, with mortgage costs going up—that's for those who are lucky enough to have a home. We've got tent cities popping up around our major cities, as well—something I never thought I'd see in this nation. There are lots of issues. I would think people out there would hope that here in this place we'd be debating something and trying to do something to tackle those issues.</para>
<para>Instead, we've got a bill here, the Australian Human Rights Commission Amendment (Costs Protection) Bill 2023, which can only be described as a lawyer's picnic on steroids. It's a massive lawyer's picnic, as other speakers have outlined. I'll go through it myself in some detail. But really, if you gave a lawyer or a large corporate law firm a blank cheque and said, 'Here, write the law for this country,' you wouldn't get far away from this. Effectively, this bill before us today subsidises litigation in this country. Obviously it therefore will incentivise more people to take matters through the courts, and pretty much every time something ends up in the courts there is only one winner. There's a formal winner and a formal loser, but almost always when things end up in the civil courts there is one group of winners, and they're lawyers. They're the ones who win. They laugh all the way to the bank. And one way or another, most of the other people involved end up with a huge bill or, at the very least, if they come out with their shirt, they have a life racked with stress and interruption, and it's never really the same.</para>
<para>I don't know why we would be seeking to introduce legislation that would encourage more and more disputes to go down a legal judicial pathway that's high cost, high stress and highly resource intensive. In a country that is struggling to simply provide other basic services, why would we do that right now? It makes no sense that the government's priorities seem so divorced from the concerns of average Australians, which are clearly about the cost of living, the standard of living, and the availability of basic services like hospitals, housing, basic energy needs et cetera.</para>
<para>But this bill goes way beyond what has been recommended to this place, and there is very little explanation from the government about why it hasn't taken on the recommendation of the <inline font-style="italic">Respect@Work</inline> report, which has become known as the Jenkins report. That report made a number of recommendations, many of which we've dealt with and which have gone through this place. This is a very important report about standards of behaviour in this place.</para>
<para>Recommendation 25 of this report was to make it easier for people to bring a matter of sexual harassment to the courts. We believe this was an admirable aim. Obviously it was. But we believe it was a sensible recommendation. In brief, that recommendation would reduce the number of times a complainant of sexual harassment matters would be found to have to pay costs. It would restrict the options for a court to impose a cost order on somebody who was bringing a sexual harassment matter through the Federal Court process. Basically, it would mean that, unless it was found that the complainant had acted in a vexatious manner or without a reasonable cause, a cost order couldn't be imposed on that person.</para>
<para>I believe, given the sensitivity of these types of matters and the very personal and difficult way in which people have to bring such complaints, there's a rationale in those limited cases to provide some restriction on cost orders so that people do not feel deterred from bringing serious matters of sexual harassment forward. But this bill goes way beyond that. That is the recommendation of the Jenkins review, and we support it. If the government had brought legislation to implement that recommendation and do that thing, we're very clear that it would have been supported and have gone through this place with very little rancour or wasted time. It's a sensible thing to do.</para>
<para>That's not what this bill does. It doesn't implement recommendation 25. It goes far beyond that recommendation and expands these restrictions on cost orders into matters that go far beyond those of a personal nature, in the case of sexual harassment, to cover all other discrimination issues, potentially including religious discrimination and racial discrimination. It does so in a way that's even more harmful, potentially encouraging excessive litigation in this country. In effect, we've ended up with a recommendation that is not only about these personal and sometimes highly embarrassing matters that are difficult for people to bring forward. It includes a whole lot of other matters which could encourage people to bring forward potentially quite unreasonable matters of religious and racial discrimination. There is always a balance to be had in these matters, because there are some more nefarious groups of people out there who are looking to always accuse people of racism or religious discrimination today. Obviously, where those complaints are substantive, they should be properly handled through the courts, but we shouldn't establish a situation where anybody can be accused of these things and those making the accusations don't have to provide reasonable justification for why they're bringing them through a judicial pathway.</para>
<para>When it does that, to go into the detail, this bill would make it so that a court must award costs to a complainant. If someone complains that someone else has acted in a racially discriminatory way, the costs must be awarded to the complainant, so the accuser has to pay for the complainant if they are successful on one or more grounds. This is one of the biggest issues here. Let's say somebody brought forward a case that had 10 or 15 different accusations of racial discrimination, and the court found in the end that just one of those 15 accusations was successful and upheld. The costs of the entire litigation would be imposed on the accused. The accused would have to pay not only their own costs but also the costs of the complainant as well, even though the complainant has failed to prove 14 of the 15 allegations in that particular case. But that's just a particular case, in any case.</para>
<para>That's totally inconsistent with how our courts deal with these matters at the moment. They look at a decision in the whole context, and if the majority of the accusations were not upheld, it's unlikely a court would order costs against an accused for all the costs. They may have a partial costs order; they may not order any costs at all. This bill takes away that discretion from the courts and puts a ridiculously high standard on people accused. Even if they're very successful in defending the accusations, they still could end up with a massive bill.</para>
<para>The issue with this particular point that has been raised in the Senate committee, without adequate answers, is what happens in the event where the accusations extend beyond just the discriminatory matters that this bill purports to cover? Say somebody had brought complaints under industrial relations law but, in that case, they'd also had a matter of racial or sexual discrimination. If they were successful in the discriminatory issue but unsuccessful in the industrial relations complaints, under this bill and a literal interpretation of the bill as drafted it would mean the court would have to award costs to the complainant for all those matters, even though they were completely unsuccessful on a group of matters—say, on industrial relations—that they had brought. That seems completely out of whack as well. Again, the government hasn't really shown good faith here in answering these legitimate issues that have been raised by many people, including good faith people in the legal fraternity and the judicial fraternity, about these issues in the Senate committee. This is interfering with long-held practices in our courts.</para>
<para>The fundamental issue here, while I'm on this point, is where's the evidence that this is broken? We can absolutely understand the personal nature of complaints in sexual harassment cases and the possible need for some tweaking here to help people bring forward such issues that are very hard for anyone to do. But on these general issues of disputes between people—that obviously get quite heated at times but arise whenever you get humans interacting with each other—where is the evidence that our longstanding court processes about costs orders are broken? There's a decision the judicial courts make about these matters. They consider the judgement as a whole. They consider all the arguments. They consider, even, the potential pre-trial negotiations that occurred and whether or not plaintiffs and defendants were reasonable in their offers or rejections of settlement. They consider all those things and make a considered decision, taking all those factors into account, about who or if anyone should be awarded costs.</para>
<para>This now tilts it all in favour of the complainant. That obviously is a massive blank cheque to big corporate law firms who make money off running court cases. That's what they're in the business of doing. Sometimes it's important to take those sorts of cases and defend people who've been wronged in life but obviously there is an element of that community that takes that to extremes, and we end up with a society crushed under excessive litigation where a lot of people get hurt—except for the lawyers, of course, as I mentioned.</para>
<para>Going back to the detail, another issue here is that the model says that it's very restrictive on when or if costs should be awarded against the plaintiff or the accuser. As I said, the accuser, if they win on one factor, will get all their costs paid. Obviously, they've got an incentive to launch as many actions and issues as they can, because they only have to be successful on one to get everything paid for. In the event that they don't get any of them up, though, it's very rare that they'd get costs awarded against them. That will only happen, under this bill, under limited circumstances, and I will go through those. The court will only be able to issue costs against the complainant, the plaintiff, to the respondent if the complainant:</para>
<list>… instituted the proceedings vexatiously or without reasonable cause—</list>
<para>That's quite a high bar. They'd have to prove there was a vexatious element to the complaint.</para>
<quote><para class="block">… the applicant's unreasonable act or omission caused the other party to incur the costs—</para></quote>
<para>That's a bit vague. Is it just the costs that were incurred as a result of the unreasonable behaviour or all of the costs? The court can award costs if the respondent is successful in the proceedings; they have to be successful, obviously, to have this awarded to them. Other aspects are that they do not have a significant power advantage and do not have significant financial or other resources relative to the complainant.</para>
<para>Again, this seems to be an incitement to take action against people and companies that happen to be well-to-do. The Labor Party probably doesn't worry about that: 'Oh yeah, let them go. They're big businesses; they are rich people. Make them go through the courts.' But there's got to be an element of justice in our society. I thought that in our system, when you go into the courts, Lady Justice is blind—right? The scales are there, and there's a blindfold. It's probably a goddess or something; I'm not a lawyer, so I don't know the ancient mythology behind it. But she's blind, because we think justice is blind. It doesn't matter whether you're rich or poor or what colour your skin is; we all have the same rights in that court, as citizens of this country. And as a citizen of Australia you have a right to defend yourself, a right to being presumed innocent before being proven guilty, a right to representation and a right to be treated fairly in the court.</para>
<para>But this sets up a situation where the sort of justice you have depends on your financial circumstances. Again, there are some elements of this in this chamber: 'Oh, well; you're rich. Too bad.' I don't like that. I don't like setting our country up against each other like that. We're all Australian citizens and we all deserve the protections of the law. It's one of the fundamental bedrocks of our democracy, of our longstanding traditions of treating everybody equally. But this bill completely tosses that out in what, as I said at the start of my contribution, seems to be the provision of a blank cheque to big corporate law firms by the Labor Party, who are having no regard to our histories and traditions but are simply trying to benefit their political mates in that sector.</para>
<para>I don't think this bill has a leg to stand on in any credible or logical fashion. I'd implore the government to go back to consider the recommendations of a report that's been accepted by all parties in this place and drop this blatant attempt to tilt the scales of justice against some Australians in favour of others—mainly those who happen to have a law degree and who make their money from launching litigations.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:16</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BROCKMAN</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I'll start where Senator Canavan finished. Justice is meant to be blind, and it's a key driver of the fairness of our society and the fairness of our judicial system that we try to have everyone treated the same way. But when you are considering these matters, particularly as a legislator in this place, you must recognise that incentives matter and that the signals you send make a big difference in the way people interact with the judicial system, no matter how well meaning. And let's give the government the benefit of the doubt—and perhaps I'll go on to talk about why I'll withdraw that benefit of the doubt a little bit later on. But if we give them the benefit of the doubt, they're trying to improve the system here.</para>
<para>But there is overreach in the Australian Human Rights Commission Amendment (Costs Protection) Bill 2023, which took a very narrow recommendation from the Jenkins report and broadened it out significantly. It will add an incentive into the framework of contesting these human rights types of matters before the courts, which is, quite frankly, very unproductive for our society and offers a new business model to the litigation funders, whom I don't think add a positive contribution to our judicial system. Yes, the cost of exercising your rights under the judicial system is too high, and gaining access to the judicial system is too costly for a lot of Australians. But does that mean that the litigation funders, who generally work on a pay-to-win basis, add a positive aspect to our judicial system? My view is that they do not.</para>
<para>I trained as a lawyer and got a law degree. I never practised as a lawyer; I chose other paths. But one of the things I say to any constituent who comes into my office with a legal dispute is that my first recommendation is to try and sort it out: don't go anywhere near the courts if you can possibly help it, because the court system is expensive. The outcomes cannot always be guaranteed, and those with very deep pockets often have an advantage. If you're a farmer in a dispute with your bank, the scales are very much tilted. But going and getting a litigation funder involved is not necessarily the answer to that problem.</para>
<para>In this particular case, where you have the scales being tilted by government and, once again, the incentives being put into the system, driving behaviour, that is far from ideal. As Senator Canavan very eloquently outlined, you could have people who perhaps have one or two complaints that are meritorious but then they load it up with 14 or 15 complaints which are questionable. Under the protection of this approach to legislation, they may hope to see the costs of litigation being borne by the other party. I think that is a very poor signal to send.</para>
<para>Whether intended or not, that will be the outcome. It will put in people's minds the idea that they can enter these kinds of contested spaces and litigate these human rights matters at no or low risk. That is a very dangerous approach to take in these kinds of matters. The fact is that you should have to think very carefully indeed before you take matters to a court system, to a judicial system. Putting in place a set of incentives for someone to say, 'The likely outcome, even if I only get one success out of 10 or 15 matters that I am prosecuting, is that I will have the costs awarded in my favour,' is a very bad message to send. It is a long way from what the <inline font-style="italic">Respect@</inline><inline font-style="italic">W</inline><inline font-style="italic">ork</inline> report recommended and what many of the submissions said.</para>
<para>For example, many submissions recommended that cost protections provisions in the Human Rights Commission Act should 'provide that applicants and respondents should bear their own costs unless an exception applies'. There were also submissions saying that costs should follow the event, as a disincentive to pursuing sexual harassment matters under the Sex Discrimination Act. That was the narrow problem that they were attempting to fix, but, as I've said, the scope has crept beyond that and takes us to a different place.</para>
<para>This bill does not implement recommendation 25 of the Jenkins report. It does not implement a provision modelled off section 570 of the Fair Work Act, which is what that recommendation consisted of. It is not aimed at sexual harassment in the workplace, which, again, is what the Jenkins report was all about. Instead, it has been broadened, as I've said, to apply to all federal discrimination matters. It will become a catch-all provision, extending into matters far beyond the recommended scope and intent, as set out in the Jenkins report.</para>
<para>For example, if the government decided to pursue its flawed religious discrimination bill, this bill would apply to religious institutions and schools. Again, this is a very long way, indeed, from what was recommended in the <inline font-style="italic">R</inline><inline font-style="italic">espect</inline><inline font-style="italic">@Work</inline> report. This bill implements the Orwellian description 'modified "equal access" model'—think about those words in combination. I'm sure many of those listening to this are puzzled by what that phrase actually means. It is a truly Orwellian phrase, because this model is not about equal access at all. Even the government's own materials put 'equal access' into quotation marks because it's not about equal access, which I find quite extraordinary.</para>
<para>This model does not remove barriers in a way that preserves the integrity of litigation and the discretion of the court. Instead, it tilts the balance in favour of the complainants, regardless of the nature of the complaint and the conduct of these proceedings. That, in a nutshell, is why this bill goes too far. It goes further than any other Australian jurisdiction and any other comparable nation.</para>
<para>The current approach in our courts is for cost orders to reflect on the conduct of the proceedings, the merits of the parties' positions and the ultimate outcome. I think most people, on hearing that, would say, 'Well, that sounds like a pretty reasonable approach.' It looks at how the proceedings have been conducted by both parties—so whether there has been vexatious action, whether people have been timely in their handling of matters and their handling of the provision of information, the way they've approached the court and the way they've approached the other party in terms of the proceedings. It also looks at the merits of the parties' positions. That's what courts do in the end; they look at the relevant merits of the case for the parties. Often cases aren't black and white; in fact, very few cases, particularly in this area, are black and white. They're very difficult and nuanced areas where judgements are going to be made. And then the courts also need to look at the ultimate outcome: has someone been found to have been in breach of the law? That would, I think, in most people's minds, be quite a reasonable benchmark by which courts can seek to achieve justice.</para>
<para>This is quite fair and reasonable. Judges who are hardworking and try their best to be independent—and I do not think judges take their responsibilities lightly. This bill removes discretion from judges, from the courts, because it requires that the court must award costs to a complainant—the person who brought the original complaint to the court—if they are successful on one or more grounds. That removes the ability of the court to make a decision that one party, whilst they may be successful on one ground out of 15, perhaps doesn't deserve to be rewarded for taking the matter to court in the first place—that perhaps they shouldn't be rewarded by having any cost order in their favour. This is a frequent outcome in courts, where they say: 'Yes, you've won a small part of the case, but, in bringing it to the courts, you are not actually achieving anything, and you are not going to get an order for costs in your direction.' This bill takes away that discretion and forces the judge involved to award costs in favour of a complainant even if, on the balance of all the activities in the case and all the conduct during the proceedings of the case, looking at the relative merits of the parties' positions and then looking at the ultimate outcome—effectively, this law says the ultimate outcome is the only thing that matters.</para>
<para>I think this bill is overreach. I think it goes too far. I believe we should oppose this bill.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>283585</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>There are 30 seconds to go before we get to two-minute statements, so with the concurrence of the Senate we'll move straight into two-minute statements.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:29</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McGRATH</name>
    <name.id>217241</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I have a contribution to make on the Australian Human Rights Commission (Costs Protection) Bill 2023, and it will be a very important contribution because it's a very important bill. I understand that time is of the essence. My understanding is that I will be in continuation.</para>
<para>Debate interrupted.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>281603</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>It being 1.30 pm, we will now be proceeding to two-minute statements. You will be in continuation.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>STATEMENTS BY SENATORS</title>
        <page.no>3644</page.no>
        <type>STATEMENTS BY SENATORS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Economy</title>
          <page.no>3644</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:30</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HUME</name>
    <name.id>266499</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>There was a lot to learn from last week's GDP figures. Not only are we in the longest household recession in 50 years, but productivity has collapsed by 6.3 per cent since Labor came to power. When productivity is going backwards, it's absolutely impossible to grow the economy in a sustainable way. In fact, the only thing that's propping up economic growth right now is that excessive government spending. The Treasurer is trying to make a virtue of this, but it simply shows how much the private sector, particularly small business, is retreating on his watch.</para>
<para>The reason private sector spending has ground to a halt is that Labor have sucked the aspiration out of our economy. Recent statistics show that only eight per cent of small-business owners are under the age of 30. That's half the number of small businesses owned by young people in the 1970s. You can understand why. Why would a young person take a risk to start a small business when Jim Chalmers is simply going to hit them with higher energy prices, complex industrial relations rules and, of course, more taxes?</para>
<para>Just recently, I joined my friend and colleague the member for Casey, Aaron Violi, to meet with small businesses out in Healesville, Victoria. The pain that businesses feel goes so far beyond simple high inflation or high interest rates or high energy bills that are pushing up their overheads. They told us that there's an increasing amount of red tape wrapping up their ability to grow their businesses, that Labor's industrial relations changes have only made life more difficult. Keeping up with complex awards and employment rights has become a nightmare. These are businesses that don't have HR or legal departments; they have mums and dads who do their business during the day and then go home and do the books at night.</para>
<para>The only way to get the economy moving again is to put the economic settings in place that will allow businesses to grow. Productivity is essential for our prosperity. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Health Care</title>
          <page.no>3644</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:32</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GROGAN</name>
    <name.id>296331</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Today I rise to draw attention to the conspicuous silence from those opposite about one of the first policy proposals to be put by the new leader of the Liberal Party in South Australia, Vincent Tarzia. On this side of the chamber we know that South Australians expect quality, accessible and affordable health care, and they need it when they need it, not worrying about what they may have to pay for it. One of the utmost duties of the government is to provide certainty and care for the people of this country. It should be above politics. People should have the confidence that it's going to be there when they need it. But that's not the case. That's not what's happening here.</para>
<para>One of the first policy proposals to come out of the new Tarzia-led Liberal Party came straight from the mouth of the shadow assistant minister to Mr Tarzia, Adrian Pederick. Let me quote what he said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… if there was a gap fee for people turning up to emergency who did not get admitted, I think you would see a drastic reduction in people attending emergency departments.</para></quote>
<para>That's not the first time we've seen this kind of commentary from the Liberal Party across the country. Let's not forget that it was the former health minister, Mr Dutton, who wanted Australians to pay a patient tax when they went to the GP. He's the same health minister, by the way, who was voted the worst health minister in Australia's history.</para>
<para>What do the Liberal Party actually care about? Do they care about the cost of living, or is this just a wedge they are using? Do they care about accessible health care, or is it just smoke and mirrors? Fundamentally, let's hear you condemn Tarzia's tax, let's hear you condemn Dutton's tax, and let's support South Australians and all Australians' health care. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Fossil Fuel Industry</title>
          <page.no>3645</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:34</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATERS</name>
    <name.id>192970</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Last night, this building was overflowing with mining and fossil fuel lobbyists for the Australian minerals industry parliamentary dinner. The event was hosted by the Minerals Council, who have donated $84,700 to Labor and $146,380 to the LNP in the last financial year.</para>
<para>Last week, the Prime Minister was in Western Australia, doling out tax credits to mining corporations. But, at last night's dinner, Minerals Council CEO Tania Constable told the PM in her address that the environmental approval process 'must be sorted out'—sorted out in a way that provides unfettered, tax-free access to land and resources, ignores the wishes of traditional owners, ignores biodiversity and climate and has as little as possible industrial relations protection for the mining sector's workforce. She effectively warned the Prime Minister to undermine mining profits at his peril.</para>
<para>Earlier this year, the Minister for Resources tried to pass an amendment to give herself, rather than the environment minister, ultimate authority for offshore gas project approvals. That proposal to bypass environmental approvals—which the Greens stopped—followed revelations that Minister King received a request from the CEO of Santos to gag First Nations groups and fast-track new offshore gas. Santos asked for the laws to be changed to bolster their own profits. Presumably Santos thought that its $110,000 donation last financial year made such a direct request to the minister entirely reasonable.</para>
<para>Who is the government working for—the Australian people or the fossil fuel industry? Twice I've introduced a bill to ban donations from fossil fuel corporations and other sectors with a track record of trying to buy influence, but there hasn't been any interest. Why? Because it's not in the interests of their donor mates.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Bangladesh</title>
          <page.no>3645</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:36</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHARMA</name>
    <name.id>274506</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The nation of Bangladesh has seen significant turmoil and unrest and a tragic loss of life in recent months. But I'm pleased to be able to say that, since the interim government took office under the leadership of Muhammad Yunus on 8 August, they have made significant progress towards not only restoring stability in Bangladesh but also restoring people's rights and freedoms. We've seen a new chief justice appointed. We've seen a new central bank governor appointed. We've seen step down 16 university vice-chancellors who were involved in suppressing the legitimate protests by students on their campuses. We've seen the interim government promise to try those responsible for state sponsored killings, and it's important that those crimes do not go unpunished. We've also seen the interim government throw out some of the spurious cases brought against the student protesters by the former government in Bangladesh, and we've seen reforms to the police force to restore faith and trust in that institution.</para>
<para>I wanted to commend here the people of Bangladesh and the large Bangladeshi diaspora abroad, including in my own home state of New South Wales. I commend Bangladeshi civil society and especially the brave student protesters who demanded to take back their country and bravely faced off against heavy-handed security forces. Tragically, some 450 protesters paid for Bangladesh's freedoms with their lives, and it's important that their memories be respected and that their legacy be taken on board by this new, interim government.</para>
<para>It's important that we in Australia support the interim government. We would like to see elections free and fair as soon as possible, but we recognise that institutions, and faith in Bangladesh's institutions, must be rebuilt first. Also, we do urge respect for the political and civil rights of all Bangladeshis, regardless of faith or political affiliation, and warn against any retributive violence.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Women's Health</title>
          <page.no>3645</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:38</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WALSH</name>
    <name.id>252157</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Last week marked Women's Health Week, and as a gender-equal federal government we are committed to a health system that works for women. For too long, women's health has been overlooked, and as someone who's always fought for a better future for women in this country I'm proud to say that we're determined to change that. Our fantastic assistant minister for health, Ged Kearney, is leading the charge. She's been actively listening to the needs of Australian women and collaborating with the Victorian state government to ensure impactful initiatives in my home state.</para>
<para>Since we've been in government, we have established the National Women's Health Advisory Council, giving a voice to women and girls across the nation. We've launched the #EndGenderBias Survey to better understand women's real experiences and guide our policies—and it's working, thanks to this absolutely crucial work and the brave women who have shared their stories. We have funded 22 endometriosis and pelvic pain specialist clinics, including four in Victoria. We've committed $160 million in the budget to women's health because, under our government, improving women's health is core business. And making sure that women are treated with respect and dignity and listened to about their health—that is core Labor business.</para>
<para>This work not only advances gender equality but saves lives too. Thank you to all the women who've participated and spoken up as part of this work so that women's health is the priority that it needs to be and so that women's health and their needs are seen, heard and addressed in this country.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>King Island Dairy</title>
          <page.no>3646</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:40</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LAMBIE</name>
    <name.id>250026</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Last week, the Canadian milk giant Saputo announced that they were closing King Island Dairy and retiring the brand. I was on the island earlier this year and heard from locals that they were worried this might happen. King Island Dairy was set up by farmers in 1902, and it was their cheeses, still made by hand, that put Tasmania on the global food map. It will be a devastating loss for the island, not just in jobs and for the families those jobs support but because it's the effective death of an iconic brand that has served as a brand ambassador for the world-class food we export all over the world. All Tasmanians benefited from its success.</para>
<para>The Tasmanian Liberals say they are working hard to find another investor. Well, I hope so. All Tasmanian politicians, state and federal, need to pull out all stops to fix this. Saputo say they also are trying to find alternatives. My office reached out to them today—again—to get more details, and we were told they had nothing more to say. Meanwhile, in Burnie, workers are still on strike at the Saputo factory. All they're asking for is the same pay packet as that for workers on the mainland. On their website Saputo say they have a responsibility to demonstrate good corporate citizenship. How's that going for you? There is a story doing the rounds that Saputo had a buyer but didn't want any competition. How disgraceful of you!</para>
<para>Of course, the islanders have been here before. In 2012 Brazilian company JBS closed down the abattoir on the island. That abattoir is still sitting empty, with the loss of 150 jobs and leaving beef farmers with hefty freight bills. Time and time again we see multinationals—God damn them!—buying into our Tasmanian companies, standing shoulder to shoulder with you politicians in here, only to turn their backs on the locals.</para>
<para>I hope that before much longer an angel investor can be found, because the loss of King Island Dairy is not just a loss for King Island but a loss for the whole of Tasmania.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Ong, Mr Howard</title>
          <page.no>3646</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:42</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'SULLIVAN</name>
    <name.id>283585</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I wish to draw this chamber's attention to the Liberal Party's excellent candidate in the electorate of Tangney, Howard Ong. I've had the privilege of getting to know Howard over the past two years, and what I see is a committed, engaged and, importantly, caring person who would deliver real results in Tangney. When Howard and his wife, Hilda, moved to Australia from Singapore over 28 years ago Howard started his own successful small IT business, and he has been giving back to his community by volunteering across numerous initiatives for decades now. By standing as a candidate for the upcoming election, he wants to serve the community now in a representative way. I can't think of anyone better to represent the Tangney community in the southern suburbs of Perth.</para>
<para>Howard has hit the ground running in Tangney. He's already out there on the hustings, doorknocking and getting around as many community groups and businesses as possible. An important trait in any member of parliament is their willingness to listen, and Howard is doing just that. He is speaking to locals, and it's clear that many residents are concerned about the direction in which this government is taking our country. Australians all over are feeling the pinch. Small businesses are hurting and communities, sadly, are feeling unsafe. Just last week, Howard mentioned that his local tennis club faces over $20,000 in increased electricity bills, a barber in his area pays more than $10,000 monthly in rent, and many residents are saying that their mortgages are unsustainable.</para>
<para>Prime Minister Albanese is neglecting to address the real problems facing Western Australians. He does not get WA, but Howard Ong does. Howard is a real local who will deliver real results, and I would encourage anyone living in Tangney to give Howard their full support.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Liberal-National Coalition</title>
          <page.no>3646</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:44</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHELDON</name>
    <name.id>168275</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>This week, we saw the chaos that ensues when the Liberals and Nationals have to come up with actual policies. Since the last election, they've only come up with three: they've committed to undoing all of Labor's good work on improving wages and conditions, they want to raid your super to inflate house prices, and they want to spend $600 billion of your money on their mates' nuclear power plants. That is the grand sum of their plans for the economy—lower wages, lower super and bankrupting the country to pay for their nuclear money pit.</para>
<para>In this policy vacuum, shadow ministers have begun freelancing on policy. I don't blame them, because it's hard to campaign on no, no, no all the time. So yesterday the Leader of the Nationals in the Senate, one of the most senior coalition members, come up with the bright idea of flogging off Jetstar, presumably so that their mates in Qatar or another foreign capital fund can purchase it. It's clear to me why that is a ridiculous idea. Breaking a wing off our national airline and flogging it to the highest bidder would be worse for workers, worse for passengers and worse for our national sovereignty. Thankfully, Senator McKenzie thought ahead and avoided all these issues by not telling anyone about her policy before she announced it.</para>
<para>Mr Dutton's policy platform is like a dinner party hosted by a bloke who couldn't even boil water. The leader has nothing to offer, so guests are rolling up with their own rancid policy dishes, and, sadly, it's the Australian people who have to tuck into them.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Housing</title>
          <page.no>3647</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:45</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator STEELE-JOHN</name>
    <name.id>250156</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The rental market in this country is completely broken. Never before has a system that was designed to help people achieve a basic human right been so stacked in the favour of profiteering corporations and apathetic landlords. Renters know the system is stacked against them. We are seeing people compete to get a rental. There are lines around the block, and, if you are lucky enough to get one, you have to cross your fingers that you will get a benevolent landlord, one who isn't unresponsive, dismissive and intrusive. The horrors are abundant: rain pouring into the living room through leaks in the ceiling, mould in the bathroom and the absence of basic amenities like air conditioning and insulation. These are just a few of the problems that renters face, and, if they complain, the tenancy acts are weaponised against them, leaving them fearful of being punished, including via eviction.</para>
<para>That is why the Greens are proposing a national renters and rental protection authority. The national renters protection authority would play a key role in enforcing new national rental tenancy standards. The Greens plan would ensure $2.5 billion is injected towards states and territories that adopt model laws that place power back in the hands of renters. It is time that we protect renters rights and back— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>World Suicide Prevention Day</title>
          <page.no>3647</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:47</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DAVID POCOCK</name>
    <name.id>256136</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Today is World Suicide Prevention Day, an important opportunity to raise awareness, share messages of hope and encourage people to seek help. Each year in Australia over 3,000 Australians die by suicide, and an estimated 55,000 Australians attempt suicide.</para>
<para>Among men aged 15 to 44, suicide is the leading cause of death. One of the things we, as men, need to talk about more is encouraging each other to talk about mental health, reducing the stigma when it comes to reaching out to your mates or to a healthcare professional and actually talking about what's going on for you. There wouldn't be anyone in this place who hasn't been affected by a loved one or someone they know committing suicide, and often it's men who we think are the strongest and the most bulletproof—the ones who we thought had it all together. But underneath that was someone who was crying out for help and didn't feel like they could reach out and make themselves vulnerable.</para>
<para>So I'd encourage young people here and men out there to think more about the ways that you can support your mate, and, when you're facing issues yourself, reach out. It's not a sign of weakness; it is actually showing strength as a man. We can only be human together. It's our bonds and our friendships that really make us human. That's a good thing to remember on this World Suicide Prevention Day.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Taxation</title>
          <page.no>3647</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:50</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SCARR</name>
    <name.id>282997</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I associate myself with Senator David Pocock's remarks. Mental health issues should be treated in exactly the same way as any health issue. They are no different to a broken arm, a sprained wrist or whatever. They should be treated exactly the same, and that's where we need to get to as a society.</para>
<para>At a National Press Club address, the Greens leader, Adam Bandt MP, has announced the Greens tax policy. The Greens have let the cat out of the bag, and what a feral, mangy little beastie it is. It's a $514 billion tax grab. Can you believe it? The Greens are proposing a $514 billion tax grab. That's their solution to the current economic woes the world is facing: $514 billion of extra taxes. The extreme Greens tax policy would be a wrecking ball through the Australian economy. It would destroy thousands and thousands of jobs, it would decimate industries and it would force business offshore. It is economic madness.</para>
<para>The Greens $514 billion tax policy—their $514 billion tax grab—is economic madness. It is not in the best interests of the Australian economy. It is not in the best interests of the Australian people. Everyone in this chamber, other than the Greens, needs to bring the extreme Greens tax policy—a $514 billion tax grab—to the attention of the Australian voters before the next election.</para>
<para>We cannot afford the Greens' extreme $514 billion tax grab. It would decimate the Australian economy and hurt the people we represent in this place.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Mining Industry</title>
          <page.no>3648</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:52</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Last night, I attended the Minerals Council of Australia dinner in the Great Hall with approximately 400 other guests. CEO Tania Constable delivered a strong, passionate speech encompassing the hardships and challenges as well as the benefits the mining industry delivers to Australia by way of taxes, jobs and infrastructure in rural and regional areas. She acknowledged the Prime Minister and, in doing so, pleaded with him to support the industry, instead of making it harder to do business. It was a fantastic, factual and hard-hitting speech that resonated with her colleagues and me.</para>
<para>On the other hand, the Prime Minister's speech was disingenuous. He delivered what he thought the room wanted to hear, but his actions over the past two years speak volumes. I was disgusted, furious and angry at his hypocrisy, and so were many in the room. He has done so much damage to the mining industry since taking office, and there is further legislation yet to be passed, such as the Nature Positive Plan. This piece of legislation is ridiculous and will cause more stress and cost.</para>
<para>The PM spoke of consultation and an open-door policy, but nothing could be further from the truth. Everyone who consults is being required to sign non-disclosure agreements. Industrial relations, the safeguard mechanism, unions, Aboriginal overreach, net zero and climate change BS—all of this and more risks the destruction of an industry worth about $350 billion a year in taxes and royalties and about a million direct and indirect jobs.</para>
<para>The Prime Minister's refusal to overrule Tanya Plibersek's decision to ban the Blayney goldmine on baseless grounds and lies is a testament to his real attitude to mining. I must mention his destruction of the farming industry in Australia as well. Shutting down the live sheep export industry—considering we have the best practice in the world—is sheer bloody-mindedness. As I've said on many occasions, he's the worst PM this country has ever had, and the sooner he and his government are thrown out, the better for all of us.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Energy</title>
          <page.no>3648</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:54</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator VAN</name>
    <name.id>283601</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Australia needs to replace our coal energy fleet with cleaner, greener, firmed alternatives. Personally I'd like to see this happen far sooner than later—certainly far sooner than is scheduled. That is the low-hanging fruit in the decarbonisation transition. Unfortunately, our current approach to energy planning is driving at a painfully slow pace and with only limited decarbonisation gains.</para>
<para>The use of large, expensive transmission lines to provide more hosting capacity will only have a limited impact, cost tens of billions of dollars and take at least 10 years. As the Chair of the Australian Energy Regulator, Clare Savage, wisely pointed out in an article recently:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… it is vital that before we build more network, we use more network.</para></quote>
<para>Why did she say this? It's because she acknowledged that network asset utilisation across the NEM has dropped to a mere 40 per cent. In the same breath, she said that she sees 'a wall of capex'—that's money—coming at consumers that could do more than offset the lower costs of wholesale energy. You heard me right. We'll be paying more in supply charges but not necessarily lowering our bills.</para>
<para>On the flip side of this, all that wonderful solar and wind that is out in the regions is not even making it into the NEM. In the middle of the day, between 11 and two, when the sun is shining brightest, it's often curtailed. Yes, it is sometimes due to network constraints, but, more often than that, it's economic curtailment—that is, it's a negative price. People have to pay to put it in the grid. That is clean, green energy that we could and should be using for free.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Science, Technology, Engineering and Maths</title>
          <page.no>3648</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:56</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator STEWART</name>
    <name.id>299352</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>We know that harmful gender stereotypes can have a huge impact on young Australians. We know that by the age of six a girl's interest in science, technology, engineering and maths—in STEM education—is already negatively impacted by gender stereotypes and biases. This has lifelong consequences. Currently, women make up only 15 per cent of the STEM workforce in Australia. We should be encouraging young women to pursue an education in the sciences, and we absolutely should be doing all that we can to knock down the stereotypes that hold them back. That work starts at an early age.</para>
<para>The Albanese Labor government wants to ensure that our early childhood educators are well equipped to provide the best learning environment to teach children about STEM concepts early. I'm proud to be part of a government that is funding a 15 per cent pay increase for early childhood educators, but our work doesn't stop there. I'm pleased that the government has provided $6.7 million to the Little Scientists program. This includes professional learning for early childhood educators that aims to improve their confidence and ability to introduce STEM concepts.</para>
<para>I recently had the pleasure of representing the education minister, Minister Jason Clare, at the Little Scientists Early STEM Education Awards ceremony at Froebel's Carlton early learning centre. The awards celebrate and recognise excellence in early STEM education for children aged zero to seven. This year's theme was 'overcoming gender bias in early STEM education'. The awards recognise the critical role early childhood educators and teachers play in overcoming gender stereotypes and implicit gender biases that impact young girls' participation in STEM education. I received such a warm welcome at the centre. Congratulations to Froebel Carlton's Warin team for being awarded an outstanding early STEM education award for their project 'Blue! It sounds blue!' Congratulations also to Laura Cetina and Rebecca Drysdale.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Yamatji On-Country</title>
          <page.no>3649</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:58</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator COX</name>
    <name.id>296215</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>For the past three years, I have attended the annual Yamatji On-Country events held in the Pilbara and Mid West-Gascoyne regions of WA. This is a festival of culture, song, dance, food, language and people who are all critical to sustain the oldest living continuing culture in the world. It is a place to come together and for community members to hold important conversations about what affects their lives and the solutions they want to see implemented through their calls to action. It's a true example of what community-driven solutions, self-determination and place based solutions all look like.</para>
<para>At each of these events I have heard WA grassroots communities talk about the importance of their voices being heard by all in state and federal politics. Yet this continues to be ignored by those in governments. Nothing gets actioned, and, even if they show up, there have been no report cards or any solutions from either one of the major parties in the last few years. There are important issues such as racism, leadership, housing and accommodation, police and justice, education and employment, training and economic development, and health and wellbeing that are being raised across both forums.</para>
<para>The Mid West event occurred days after the National Cabinet was in Perth, but not one federal politician had the decency to turn up. So much for hearing their voices! There was just a cold, deafening silence for those on the ground. The government rolled into town and met with hand-picked organisations, not the grassroots democracy in action. People need to be included in these conversations about how things actually work on the ground. Our communities are sick and tired of not hearing any truth-telling or seeing any truth-listening by MPs who bring hollow promises all the way to Western Australia.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Manufacturing Industry</title>
          <page.no>3649</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:00</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GREEN</name>
    <name.id>259819</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Yesterday, in the House of Representatives, the Liberal and National parties voted against a bill to make manufacturing jobs here in our country, the Future Made in Australia Bill. Imagine being so against Australian jobs—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I beg your pardon; it's two o'clock. We will move to question time.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE</title>
        <page.no>3649</page.no>
        <type>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Live Animal Exports: Sheep</title>
          <page.no>3649</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:00</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>BROCKMAN () (): My question is to the Minister representing the Prime Minister, Senator Wong. Today, we saw thousands of farmers and truckies rallying outside Parliament House, many of whom have travelled up to thousands of kilometres from Western Australia to stand up for their livelihoods, their communities and their families after the appalling decision of the Albanese government to abolish live sheep exports. Minister, why was the Prime Minister too gutless to face these farmers outside Parliament House and explain why he has legislated to destroy their livelihoods and a successful Australian export industry?</para>
<para>Honourable senators interjecting—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I'm going to ask for silence before I call the minister. Minister Wong.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:01</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Australia is a democracy, and people can protest. People are entitled to come and put their views to our parliament and to do so respectfully. Protests of many shapes and sizes on different issues have been seen—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Ruston</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>What about facing up to them!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>and have been part of our democracy for a very long time.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! Senator Ruston, I called for order. I reminded senators in this chamber that they need to listen in silence before I called the minister, and that includes you, Senator Ruston.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I understand the Prime Minister did meet with a delegation. I haven't spoken to him about it but I'm sure they put their views, and he would have put ours. And our views are—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Ruston</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The way you disrespected that lady—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! Senator Ruston, I believe that your scarf needs to be turned around so it can't be read, or it needs to be taken off.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>People in this democracy can disagree, but they should do so respectfully—something I might remind Senator Ruston about. The primary producers are a very important part of our economy and our community. I appreciate that people don't agree with the decision the government has made to honour an election commitment, but it was an election commitment. It was an election commitment that was taken to the Australian people on not one but two occasions, and we have sought to fulfil that, consistent with the pledges we made to the Australian people.</para>
<para>This was a trade that was already declining. This is a trade where we have given substantial notice of the phase-out and are seeking to assist with an orderly transition by investing $107 million into—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Brockman, first supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I would like to finish my answer. I was sitting down because Senator Ruston continues to interject.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>There were 10 seconds left on the clock, and Senator Wong has indicated that she has not finished her contribution. Senator Wong, I invite you to continue for the next 10 seconds.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I would make the point that this government has put a very substantial amount into assistance to try and manage an orderly transition and to ensure jobs are in Australia.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Brockman, first supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:05</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BROCKMAN</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, latest figures show the flock size in Western Australia dropping by 27 per cent in one year, with industry experts predicting a 35 per cent decline in lamb numbers. Your government promised more processing in WA to replace live exports, but these numbers clearly show you are destroying the Western Australian sheep industry. Minister, for those outside the building who are fighting for their future and for the industry that they love, can you look them in the eye and tell them that the—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator Brockman. The time for asking has expired.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Wong</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I'm happy for the senator to finish, by leave.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Brockman, please finish.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BROCKMAN</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Can you tell them that the processors won't also close on the back of declining sheep numbers?</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:05</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Can I make a few points about the size and trajectory of this industry? In 2014-15, 2.1 million sheep were exported by sea at a value of $224 million. In 2021-22, 475,000 sheep were exported by sea at a value of $80 million. Over the decade that the Liberals and Nationals were in government, live exports decreased by $144 million and over 1.5 million head. So let's remember that when those opposite were in government we saw a reduction in this trade by value and a very substantial reduction by head. I do respect that this is a difficult transition for those families and producers who have been in this trade for a long time, but this is a trade that has been, under you, in decline. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Brockman, second supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:07</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BROCKMAN</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Albanese government has banned the successful live sheep export sector, blocked job-creating mining projects, created chaos in the construction sector and driven up electricity prices for all Australians. Why is the Albanese government prioritising implementation of the extreme policies of their friends and allies the Australian Greens and not delivering what's best for Australians?</para>
<para>Honourable senators interjecting—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order across the chamber! Senator Watt and Senator McKenzie, that applies to both of you.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:07</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I would invite the senator to look at the work we did to reopen China as an export market for our barley exporters. I would ask the senator to consider—and I would say to the sector—that we have had live cattle exports grow by 54 per cent and exports of beef to Indonesia hit a record high in 2022-23. I would remind those opposite that we have seen, under the work this government has done, increases in the exports of wine. We have seen some $20 billion of impediments that were in place under you when we came to government, which primarily affected some of the sectors that were included in your question, and seen that the trade impediments have been removed from all of those sectors other than $1 billion worth as at the time of those impediments being imposed. So we have been doing work to— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Cybersafety</title>
          <page.no>3650</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:08</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator MARIELLE SMITH</name>
    <name.id>281603</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Prime Minister, Minister Wong. In my state of South Australia, parents often tell me how concerned they are over social media and the risk of harm that it's presenting to their children. South Australia has, of course, introduced landmark new laws to protect children and to support parents. Can the minister explain what the Albanese government is doing alongside the South Australian government to keep children safe online?</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! Just a moment, Senator Wong. Senator McKenzie, you need to cover that shirt or remove it.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKenzie</name>
    <name.id>207825</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>You want me to take it off?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator McKenzie, it's a prop. Cover it or remove yourself from the chamber.</para>
<para>Honourable senators interjecting—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! Senator McKenzie, your shirt is still visible. You need to turn it inside out or leave the chamber.</para>
<para>Honourable senators interjecting—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! Senator McKenzie and all the senators who think this is funny: props are not allowed in this chamber, nor are T-shirts or other paraphernalia that have words which are clearly visible. Senator McKenzie, I've given you a choice.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>No, it's not okay. Senator McKenzie, unless you intend, for the whole of question time, to sit there and hold the blazer, that is not appropriate. I've given you an option.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>No, I've given you an option. Minister Wong.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:10</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I'm very happy to answer a question about the safety of our children. Thank you, Senator Smith, for asking this question. I think all of us know the extent to which this is an issue that parents are really concerned about, and parents are looking for leadership, for guidance and for help in how all of us manage what is a pretty tricky thing to negotiate or to put boundaries around with our children. I'm sure you have found that this is something parents and grandparents raise with you.</para>
<para>We know that social media can cause social harm and is taking kids away from real friends and experiences. More importantly, we know that early access to social media can be very detrimental for young people's mental health and physical health. People want real solutions, and we as a government believe that working for the safety of our children is paramount. That's why, today, the Prime Minister has announced we will introduce legislation to enforce a minimum age for access to social media and other relevant digital platforms. That legislation will be informed by engagement with states and territories.</para>
<para>I acknowledge the role of Peter Malinauskas, the Premier of South Australia, who has been engaging with not only his community but also the Prime Minister on this issue. I'm very pleased that that has resulted in the announcement the Prime Minister has made. As Premier Malinauskas has said, the work South Australia has done is important but we need a nationwide solution. It is a Commonwealth—</para>
<para>Opposition senators interjecting—</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I'm surprised you are laughing about this. Most parents actually care about this issue. The community cares about this issue, and those opposite are laughing about it. It's quite extraordinary. A Commonwealth led approach will ensure all Australian children are better protected from online harms.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Marielle Smith, first supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:12</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator MARIELLE SMITH</name>
    <name.id>281603</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>It certainly is a huge issue and an issue of concern for all Australian parents. Can the minister outline how the Albanese government's approach, including the age assurance trial, will ensure effective social media age limits?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:13</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>As I said, a Commonwealth led approach will ensure that all children are better protected from online harms and ensure parents and carers are better supported. We also want to hold big tech to account, because platforms and online services have a responsibility for the safety of their users—and I hope this is something on which we can get agreement across this chamber.</para>
<para>As I said, we will work with the states and territories to get this right. We are also going to consider the results of the various measures Minister Rowland has put in place—the age-assurance trial and the Online Safety Act review. These measures have been welcomed by the eSafety Commissioner, and the trial in particular is testing different implementation approaches to help inform policy design. We want to work with experts, young people, advocates and parents through the trial because we want these laws to be effective, and we want to make sure that big tech plays its part in protecting users.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Marielle Smith, second supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:14</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator MARIELLE SMITH</name>
    <name.id>281603</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Minister, for outlining our government's approach. Can you explain why the Albanese government is taking action on this important issue now?</para>
<para>Opposition senators interjecting—</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:14</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I hear what those opposite are saying. They're asking us: 'Why hasn't this been done before? Why hasn't there been more action?' I wonder what could have happened over nearly a decade of government. If only they'd been in power for nearly a decade when the explosion in the online world really occurred. If only someone in power then thought that this might be an issue. Occasionally, in politics, it is a good thing to say, 'Yes, this is a good idea.' Occasionally, in this chamber, it is a good thing to say, 'That is a good idea, and we're going to back it,' but they can't help themselves, can they? They can't help themselves. They have to—</para>
<para>Opposition senators interjecting—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order, Senator Birmingham and Senator Cash!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>They're doing it again! Look at this. Here we are. Both sides of politics might actually do something about the safety of children, but those opposite just want to get angry about it. We on this side want to make sure that protection of our children is paramount. That is what we will do, and that is what we will legislate.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Cash, once again, I called you to order, and you didn't come to order. I would ask you to not wilfully continue on when I've called you to order.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Agriculture Industry</title>
          <page.no>3652</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:15</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DAVEY</name>
    <name.id>281697</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Minster for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, Minister Watt. There are thousands of farmers rallying at Parliament House today, devastated by years of the Labor government's anti-farming agenda, which, over the last two years, has scrapped live sheep exports and the ag visa; slapped farmers with a fresh food tax, a truckie tax, a ute tax, and a superannuation tax on family farms; forced water buybacks; caused ballooning electricity bills; and cut or delayed regional infrastructure funding. How will the Albanese Labor government policies do anything other than punish regional Australia and the farmers who feed our nation while further driving up the cost of living for all Australian families?</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Davey, Senator McCarthy is the representing minister. I note that you put the question to Senator Watt. It's really up to you.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DAVEY</name>
    <name.id>281697</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I'm happy for it to go to the relevant representing minister, Senator McCarthy.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:16</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McCARTHY</name>
    <name.id>122087</name.id>
    <electorate>Northern Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>We are concerned, obviously, for all Australians, and that certainly does mean our producers and our farmers right across the country, and we certainly acknowledge the 400 protesters who gathered out there today. As Senator Wong said in her response to the previous question, we certainly had—</para>
<para>Opposition senators interjecting—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Wong?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Wong</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>They're still going; they're still going.</para>
<para>Opposition senators interjecting—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order!</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Wong</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Are you able just to stop? I am saying, on a point of order—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The</name>
    <name.id>10000</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, please resume your seat. Senator Cash, just prior to Senator Davey getting on her feet, I reminded you that, when I called 'Order!', it applied to you. I will advise you that I will use standing order 203. If you don't agree with the response a minister makes, then that is what taking note of answers is for or, indeed, the open-ended adjournment. It is not an opportunity for you to continue to interject across the chamber. Minister McCarthy.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McCARTHY</name>
    <name.id>122087</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, President, and I will address that for a moment. This isn't the concern about the hundreds of people who are out the front—</para>
<para>Opposition senators interjecting—</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McCARTHY</name>
    <name.id>122087</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>No, no—in terms of numbers, Senator Cash, what I was saying, which none of you have picked up on, is that we are concerned about all Australians, especially those on the land.</para>
<para>Opposition senators interjecting—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister McCarthy, please resume your seat.</para>
<para>Opposition senators interjecting—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! Order! If you can't remain silent, I invite you to leave the chamber. That goes for Senator McGrath, Senator O'Sullivan and Senator Davey. Minister McCarthy, please continue.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McCARTHY</name>
    <name.id>122087</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, President, and I do urge the opposition to give me a chance to respond here. We are very, very concerned about all Australians, including our farming sector. The Albanese Labor government is committed to a robust, sustainable ag industry that continues to thrive in Australia. Since coming to government in 2022, we've been delivering for Australian farmers and producers by strengthening biosecurity, boosting the ag workforce, opening new trade opportunities and improving farm sustainability. We've delivered over $3 billion in extra funding for agriculture since taking office. Despite the tight fiscal environment we find ourselves in, we're getting on with the job of fixing what the previous coalition government failed or couldn't be bothered to do, fixing the $100 million black hole left in the biosecurity budget, and we're actually taking action on climate change and helping industry meet its own climate targets after 10 years of denial from those opposite.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Davey, first supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:20</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DAVEY</name>
    <name.id>281697</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, recent data from the MDBA shows that water diversions are now 23 per cent below sustainable diversion limits, yet the Labor government is continuing to prioritise buybacks out of farming communities. Why does the Labor government only look at buybacks as a solution and ignore real degradation drivers like European carp? When will the government listen to farmers rather than act against them?</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Wong</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>A point of order: that relates to a policy area that is not in the agriculture portfolio. It's in—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Ruston!</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Wong</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>She's very upset today.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Minister Wong. I think Senator Birmingham also has a point of order if you've finished yours.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Wong</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>With respect, what I'd ask the senator to consider, if she wants to recast her supplementary question, is that buybacks are clearly not the responsibility of the agriculture portfolio.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Birmingham</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>On the point of order, President: Senator Davey's primary question referenced a number of impacts on farming communities, and she identified water buybacks as one of those impacts in the primary question. This is a supplementary question going into that issue. The idea that water buybacks do not have an impact on the agriculture portfolio is preposterous. They may not be the direct responsibility of the agriculture portfolio, but that is like suggesting that industry policy doesn't impact the Treasury portfolio—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator Birmingham.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Birmingham</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>or a range of other areas with the impacts on industry—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Birmingham, please resume your seat. Senator Wong, I'm intending to respond.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Wong</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question related specifically to sustainable diversion limits. That is very clearly a matter not within this portfolio and cannot possibly be addressed to this minister.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! Senator Birmingham, order! I am advised by the Clerk that Senator Davey should be given the opportunity to recast her question and link it to—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Birmingham, you are not in a debate with me. I'm ruling on a point of order. Senator Davey, I invite you to recast your question and link it to agriculture.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DAVEY</name>
    <name.id>281697</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>With pleasure. Minister, recent MDBA data shows that irrigation farmers in the Murray-Darling Basin are using well below what have been identified as sustainable diversion limits, yet your government continues to buy water from them, negatively impacting their communities. Why don't you listen to the farmers and review your policies on how you treat irrigation farmers?</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:23</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McCARTHY</name>
    <name.id>122087</name.id>
    <electorate>Northern Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I do believe, as Senator Wong has said, that this part of this question does go to a fellow minister.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Sharma</name>
    <name.id>274506</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Irrigation farmers!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McCARTHY</name>
    <name.id>122087</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Please let me finish.</para>
<para>Opposition senators interjecting—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McCARTHY</name>
    <name.id>122087</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>If I may finish, I would like to make reference to the question itself in terms of correcting Senator Davey—that we are not only buying back water; we are funding water infrastructure and water efficiency projects, Senator Davey, and you know that. And Mr Littleproud knows that. In fact, I don't think he's got that great a record either. I understand that he wasn't that welcome there today by the farmers in terms of the water as well.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator McGrath, order!</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order!</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! Senator McGrath, I've called you to order three times; you ignored me. I remind you as well of standing order 203.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McCARTHY</name>
    <name.id>122087</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>As I was saying, other than other things that the opposition have said, it was noticed that the farmers were not happy with the Leader of the Nationals, either. So I suspect— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Davey, second supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:25</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DAVEY</name>
    <name.id>281697</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, Australian farmers have now seen their pea contracts cut by 34 per cent because Coles is importing peas from overseas. Similar things have been faced by SPC in Shepparton when the big supermarkets purchased imported fruits for their tinned fruits. Why are our farmers always getting done over under Labor? Is it any wonder that the farmers are at the front of Parliament House rallying today?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:25</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McCARTHY</name>
    <name.id>122087</name.id>
    <electorate>Northern Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>We know that people can hold protests—it is a democracy in this country—but I will correct Senator Davey. We have been doing a tremendous amount in this area, and, as I've outlined already in my previous responses, we've also been fixing the APVMA after it became a dysfunctional mess at the hands of Barnaby. The source moved to Armidale. The opposition spent almost a decade neglecting and eroding our trade relationships. They destroyed—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister McCarthy, please resume your seat. Order! Minister Gallagher?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Gallagher</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The behaviour of the opposition this question time is really getting to a new low. They are ignoring your direction. Minister McCarthy can't answer unless she is shouting. You should come to order.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Minister Gallagher. I'm sure that you have witnessed that I am doing my very best. I have reminded particular senators of standing order 203, and I will request that, for the remainder of the minister's question, people listen in silence.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McCARTHY</name>
    <name.id>122087</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, President. I have to say some of the things I just said, just in case they didn't hear it. The opposition spent almost a decade neglecting and eroding our trade relationships. They destroyed the relationship with our biggest trading partner, which our government has restored. We've opened new trade opportunities that allow the industry to continue to grow and remain competitive, and agricultural exports are now more diversified than ever, thanks to the Albanese Labor government.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Northern Territory: Environment</title>
          <page.no>3654</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:27</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON-YOUNG</name>
    <name.id>I0U</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to Senator McAllister, representing the Minister for the Environment and Water. Tamboran Resources has announced that, any day now, it will commence gas fracking in the Beetaloo basin in the Northern Territory. This is a project that will take over a billion litres of water and generate risky, toxic waste but has not even been assessed for its impact on the environment or indeed the water table. Has the minister bothered to consider pulling the water trigger? Why has the minister not used her powers given to her by this parliament to make sure this project is called in?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:28</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McALLISTER</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>As the senator knows, all projects must comply with national environmental law, and that includes, of course, the expanded water trigger that was introduced by the Albanese government. The proponent for the project that the senator refers to—Tamboran—has been reminded of this on multiple occasions. They also know that any breach of national environment law will be treated extremely seriously. These changes to the water trigger occurred after the Albanese government passed our first tranche of environmental law last year to add unconventional gas to the water trigger under national environment law. And we've been extremely clear with industry to help them implement their obligations. The Department of Climate Change, Energy, the Environment and Water wrote to known companies with activities in the Beetaloo basin, including Tamboran Resources, to inform them of the new obligations that may apply to these operations under the recent water trigger amendments. I understand that the minister's office has also spoken to these companies and reminded them of the requirements under the act. I am also advised that the minister has not received a referral for these activities.</para>
<para>The reality of the law, Senator Hanson-Young, is that the exploration question is authorised by the Northern Territory government, and so the department that Minister Plibersek administers continues to work closely with the Northern Territory government to understand the impact of authorised exploration and whether that could have significant impacts on Commonwealth protected matters, including water. And that is consistent with the law.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Hanson-Young, first supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:30</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON-YOUNG</name>
    <name.id>I0U</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I'd like to acknowledge the traditional owners for joining us in the chamber today. They've come all the way from the Northern Territory to call on the government to do more than simply write a letter. There is power within the laws, and they want the environment minister to pull the water trigger—to call in this project and show some leadership.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:30</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McALLISTER</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Well, Senator, as we've discussed in this chamber more than once and as we've talked about in estimates, the minister's obligations are to follow the law. And, as you'd expect, her obligations are also to make decisions in a way that is legally sound and withstands legal challenge. To that extent, the minister is incredibly conscious that it is a legal question as to whether the water trigger in the legislation applies to any particular development. She has repeatedly made clear that, as a potential decision-maker, it is inappropriate to express an opinion about the question that you raise at this stage.</para>
<para>As I already indicated in my response to your primary question, the minister is taking steps to receive advice from the Territory government and from her department— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Hanson-Young, second supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:31</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON-YOUNG</name>
    <name.id>I0U</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Labor Party lost 10 seats in the Northern Territory election only a couple of weeks ago. How many more seats are you prepared to lose before you take action? Will the minister pick up the phone today and tell Tamboran: 'Stop right there. Stop what you're doing before this is properly assessed'?</para>
<para>Opposition senators interjecting—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! Senator Hughes, when you've quite finished, and Senator Canavan! Minister McAllister, obviously the first part of the question is not within your scope, but the second part is.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:32</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McALLISTER</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I acknowledge, of course, that these issues attract very strong interest from community members, and may I particularly acknowledge the elders from the Northern Territory who have travelled here today. I know that this will be a question that is important to communities. But the question as you have put it to me, Senator Hanson Young, asks the minister to take a series of steps without having consideration to the law. In fact, what it more particularly asks the minister to do is to take a series of steps in having regard to a whole set of issues that are not relevant to the questions the minister must consider under the legislation. As I've indicated, the minister has asked her department to provide advice to her to assure her that all the companies operating in the Beetaloo basin are complying with their obligations under the act.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Family, Domestic and Sexual Violence</title>
          <page.no>3655</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:33</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator STEWART</name>
    <name.id>299352</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister for Women, Senator Gallagher. The Prime Minister convened National Cabinet last week, bringing together all jurisdictions to work together to address the scourge of gender based violence. Addressing violence is a priority in both Working for Women—the national strategy for gender equality—and the National Plan to End Violence against Women and Children. Can the minister please update the Senate on the outcomes of National Cabinet and how the government is working to improve the lives of women across Australia?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:34</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Stewart for the question and for her ongoing commitment to driving gender equality—indeed, all of the members of the government Senate team in doing that work. Too many women live in fear, and too many lives have been stolen. Too many women live with ongoing trauma from their experience of violence in this country. It's not just about women's safety and wellbeing; gender based violence stands in the way of women achieving their potential, including their economic potential.</para>
<para>This is why ending gender based violence has been such a priority for the Albanese Labor government. Last Friday, National Cabinet did agree to a $4.7 billion package that harnesses important opportunities to work together to prevent violence and, importantly, to support and provide certainty to community based legal services. This important package brings together efforts and funding to deliver much needed support for frontline specialists and legal services in responding to gender based violence and better innovative approaches to better identify and respond to high-risk perpetrators to stop violence escalating, and it addresses the roles that systems and harmful industries play in exacerbating violence.</para>
<para>The package includes a range of measures including $3.9 million for a new national access to justice partnership and a critical $800 million funding uplift, with a focus on uplifting legal services responding to gender based violence. For the first time, we will provide ongoing funding certainty beyond the five-year agreement so that that sector does have that certainty that has been so badly needed. This is new money. The former government, of course, had left a funding cliff, with no funding for these critical services beyond the mid-2025s. We've addressed that cliff and uplifted the funding. We've also agreed to a new national partnership agreement on family, domestic and sexual violence responses.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Stewart, first supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:36</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator STEWART</name>
    <name.id>299352</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Achieving gender equality relies on women being safe and economically secure. Can you please outline the work the government has done to drive gender equality, including initiatives that are supporting the economic security of women?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:36</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Stewart for the supplementary, and it's an important one, because we can't look at women's safety in isolation from other areas where we need to address gender inequality. That's why in our government, when we are going through the budget process, we are assessing every NPP, every new proposal, against what it means for women in this country. We do gender analysis to make sure that we fully understand the implications of those decisions that we're taking. That helped to inform our revised tax cuts so that more women received more of those tax cuts, with 90 per cent of women being better off.</para>
<para>It has informed the decisions we've taken around PPL, to extend PPL, and also to add superannuation to PPL and in terms of the work we've done around early childhood educators and aged-care workers—a highly feminised industry where 90 per cent in that sector, on average, are women. That has informed the decisions we have taken to support pay rises. Publishing employer gender pay gaps—the list is too long. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Stewart, second supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:37</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator STEWART</name>
    <name.id>299352</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>It is inspiring to hear about the progress the Albanese Labor government has made on gender equality in just two years and what is possible when you make it a priority. As the first majority women government in Australian political history, it is clear that having women in parliament drives policy change. How important has it been to increase the number of women in parliament and around the decision-making tables of government?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:38</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Stewart for that question too because it is important. Having gone from serving in a government where I was the only member in the cabinet to serving in a cabinet now with record numbers of women, and serving in a caucus where more women than men are members of that caucus for the first time in Australian political history, I am very proud. It does make a difference.</para>
<para>Thirty years ago the Labor Party set affirmative action targets. Now the government that has 52 per cent women is 100 per cent supportive of making women's lives better and pursuing gender equality. Look over this side and then look over that side. I've got a message for the Liberal Party—the coalition. You know your big problem? Your big problem, as you drive gender equality, is that you keep preselecting men. That's the problem. It's really easy. You've just got to stop preselecting as many men and preselect a few more women. Then you might get more women in your caucus. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Research and Development</title>
          <page.no>3656</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:39</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DAVID POCOCK</name>
    <name.id>256136</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Minister for Industry and Science, Senator Farrell. Australia's R&D expenditure is just 1.68 per cent of GDP, well below the OECD average of 2.72 per cent and well below the government's own target of three per cent. Federal government spending on R&D is the lowest on record, sitting at just 0.17 per cent of GDP, with business expenditure falling to 0.9 per cent. In the federal budget, the government said it will commission a strategic examination of Australia's R&D system—noting that this was almost four months ago now. Can the minister please provide an update on when this review will commence and when the terms of reference will be released?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:40</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Pocock for his question on what is a very important issue for this government. You mentioned the figure of 1.68 per cent, which was the figure that occurred during the time of the last government, the coalition government. The time when this research peaked was when it was at 2.25 per cent, and that was when the Labor Party was in government, so the Labor Party has a strong record in this area.</para>
<para>As a government, we want a vibrant, growing research and development ecosystem that is going to be particularly significant, Senator Pocock, for the government's Future Made in Australia program. As you say, we have commissioned a strategic examination of research and development in Australia. The review will look at the system-wide transformations that can turn our homegrown research and innovation into long-term prosperity and growth, and it will be supported by a panel of eminent experts to guide the government's thinking on research and development. The government announced, as you said, its intention to undertake an examination of research and development in Australia in May this year. I understand that Minister Husic is currently consulting across government—and that will obviously include you—and will have more to say in coming weeks. This examination will be comprehensive and consider what Australia can learn from other countries in this area. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Pocock, first supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:42</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DAVID POCOCK</name>
    <name.id>256136</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Universities Accord devoted significant time and attention to R&D and recommended that the Australian government commission a formal strategic cross-portfolio examination of national research funding. Is there a difference in ambition between what the accord recommended and what the government is now looking to do with this review? Will this be a high-level, whole-of-government review or just a desktop audit?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:42</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I think it should be clear from my first answer, Senator Pocock, that the Albanese government is ambitious in this area. The whole structure behind Future Made in Australia is all about developing our homegrown technologies, our homegrown ideas, so that we can transform those ideas into prosperity. We want to work with all those groups in our community that are interested in achieving these ambitious goals.</para>
<para>So the short answer to your question, I think, is: no, there are no differences there. We are both very ambitious. Of course, we are very lucky to have a minister like Minister Husic in this area, who is devoted to achieving the best possible result for our research. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Pocock, second supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:43</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DAVID POCOCK</name>
    <name.id>256136</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, grave concerns have been raised about the impact of the government's proposed cap on international students and what impact it will have on universities' ability to cross-subsidise more than $7.7 billion on research annually. Will the review take these concerns into consideration? Does the government have a plan to actually fund research at universities in the short term?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:44</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>There's an old saying, Senator Pocock: you don't buy a dog and bark yourself.</para>
<para>Honourable senators interjecting—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order across the chamber!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Welcome back, Senator McKenzie. As your first question made clear, Senator Pocock, we've set up a review. It's going to be full of eminent citizens in this country. I don't think there's a link between what we're going to be doing in the research space and what we've been required to do in terms of capping the number of overseas students. I don't think there's a link between— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DISTINGUISHED VISITORS</title>
        <page.no>3658</page.no>
        <type>DISTINGUISHED VISITORS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Malaysia: Parliamentary Delegation</title>
          <page.no>3658</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:45</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I draw the attention of honourable senators to the presence in the gallery of a delegation from Malaysia as part of the Canberra Fellowships Program. On behalf of all senators, I wish you a warm welcome to Australia and, in particular, to the Senate.</para>
<para>Honourable senators: Hear, hear!</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE</title>
        <page.no>3658</page.no>
        <type>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Defence Industry</title>
          <page.no>3658</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:45</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator VAN</name>
    <name.id>283601</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Minister for Defence, Senator Wong. Minister, the 2023 Defence Strategic Review, the National Defence Strategy and the Defence Industry Development Strategy all were at pains to point out that Australia needs the capability to build and maintain long-range strike here in Australia. Can the minister disclose which companies have been contracted to our organisation that's doing that, GWEO?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:46</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>If I might, on indulgence, just say to our friends from Malaysia: selamat datang. It's great to have you here, and we thank you for your friendship.</para>
<para>In relation to the guided weapons and explosive ordnance program, or GWEO, as it is known, as you know, Senator, the government is very focused on making decisions to keep Australians safe and to create a future made in Australia. An aspect of that is the delivery of a sovereign guided weapons enterprise, and we've backed this up through our actions. We will start manufacturing missiles in Australia next year. We've committed up to $21 billion over the next decade. There has been the acquisition of long-range strike weapons, and recently my colleague Senator Conroy announced that the government would invest some $850 million to manufacture long-range missiles in Australia, in partnership with Kongsberg Defence Australia. The factory in Newcastle will be able to manufacture both the joint-strike and naval-strike missiles, and it will be the first factory outside of Norway to make these missiles—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister Wong, please resume your seat. Senator Van.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Van</name>
    <name.id>283601</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>On a point of order on relevance: I was asking for the key companies that have been contracted to provide weapons to GWEO.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Yes, and I accept that that was the question at the end, but you also went to the strategic review and the need for particular weaponry and so on, so the minister is being relevant to the question, but I'll continue to listen. Thank you, Senator Van.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I'm sorry, Senator. I thought this was directly relevant. I'm happy to try and get further information from DPMO, if that assists. Minister Conroy has also announced $142 million to acquire a joint-strike missile. As you know, the GWEO enterprise under the previous government only really produced two things, and they were two media releases, but I'm happy to provide further information. I thought that this was directly relevant to the question you were asking.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Van, first supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:49</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator VAN</name>
    <name.id>283601</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Minister, and it's a shame that more hasn't been done. I think it's safe to say—and it's covered in many media outlets, but I can table something if required—that one of the companies that GWEO have contracted as a prime is called Raytheon Australia.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator VAN</name>
    <name.id>283601</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I thought you might, Senator Shoebridge. Raytheon Australia is a subsidiary of RTX, as it's now known—a US company that was fined $200 million for leaking secrets to Russia, Iran and China. Is the government aware of this? <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:49</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I would say to you, Senator Van, that obviously I have seen public reporting of the settlement to which you refer. I would make the point that this is a settlement between the US government and RTX. This is a matter for the US government, and we're not in a position to comment on the details of that settlement. I can say that the advice I have is that Defence works across government and cooperates with partners, including the United States, to regulate the export and supply of goods and technology controlled on the Defence and Strategic Goods List. Defence has referred the matter to the Australian Border Force for investigation. Obviously, I'm not in a position to comment in any detail on that matter. I can say that Australia has a stringent export control framework which is designed to prevent the irresponsible or illicit trade of military and dual-use items.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Van, second supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:50</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator VAN</name>
    <name.id>283601</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, given that one of the key primes involved with GWEO has had a huge settlement against it for leaking of security breaches, would you agree that the best way to protect our future guided weapons sovereignty is to work with and enable Australian companies to manufacture these weapons here in Australia?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:51</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Well, I'm asked for an opinion, and I probably won't proffer that, but I can make an observation, which I think I've made before in estimates. Obviously, when you're looking at defence capability a number of matters need to be considered: the capability, the value for money for taxpayers and also assuring a sovereign capability for Australia in those areas where that is necessary for our national security. That is the approach the government seeks to take.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Social Media</title>
          <page.no>3659</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:52</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LAMBIE</name>
    <name.id>250026</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is for the Minister representing the Prime Minister, Minister Wong. Meta, the owner of Facebook and Instagram, recently told this parliament that they have over 130 employees in Australia. Their business here is, in their own words, as a reseller of advertising services. But none of these employees seem to work on safety for Australian users. Apparently, Meta thinks it's okay to globally outsource all that to Singapore and beyond, and we don't have laws telling them otherwise. Why is the Albanese government going to spend millions of dollars of taxpayers' money on trying to keep under-16s off social media before it legislates mandatory protections on social media companies?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:52</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I think this is a domain where government regulation and the right public policy settings do require consideration by this parliament, by parliaments, by the community and by the government. I don't think the introduction of legislation imposing age limits to protect children is in place of or should be excluded by the points you raise. We are obviously aware of Meta's decision to walk away from commercial deals in relation to Meta's decision and announcement that it will no longer pay Australian news organisations for news content. Obviously, we all want healthy, sustainable and diverse news media in Australia. That is important for our democracy and includes working out how we ensure that large digital platforms utilise reasonable news information and that these are under fair and equitable arrangements with the creators of content.</para>
<para>We have been very clear that we think that what Meta has done is a dereliction of its responsibilities to Australian users. The government of course has established the Joint Select Committee on Social Media and Australian Society. This backdrop is one of the reasons for that decision. We do believe that Australians should continue to have access to public interest journalism, including on social media, and we hope that, taking into account the work the committee does—and I'm aware of your interest in this, Senator—we can work out what is the best way forward on this issue.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Lambie, first supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:54</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LAMBIE</name>
    <name.id>250026</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>About 75 per cent of unwanted contact with minors and kids, also known as grooming, on Facebook's products comes from a feature called 'People you may know'. Last week, Facebook told the parliament that this feature is deliberately left on for under-18s in Australia. Has the Prime Minister directly raised this issue with Meta?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:55</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator, I wasn't aware of that evidence from last week until you just outlined it, and I think that is grotesque. I think all Australians would agree that we would want our children protected from all of the ways in which the online world can cause harm. Our regulatory system does require us, as parliamentarians, as legislators and as members of executive government, to do more. We know the online world does present new and emerging risks. What I would say to you is that we have quadrupled eSafety's base funding, bringing it to $42.5 million each year with funding ongoing and indexed, in recognition of the range of risks that online users face, and we have brought forward the independent review of the Online Safety Act. But none of that detracts from the ethical obligations and the responsibilities that these platforms have that they are not discharging for Australians. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Lambie, second supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:56</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LAMBIE</name>
    <name.id>250026</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>More than 14 years ago, the Australian Law Reform Commission warned of the risks to young people on social media. Since then, big tech has successfully lobbied to lower default privacy settings for kids in Australia from 18 to 16. Does the government now intend to correct that error of judgement?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:56</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Again, Senator Lambie, what I would say to you is that, whether it is through the work of the committee, the work of the independent review of the Online Safety Act or the ongoing work of eSafety, these are matters which we do need to look at. We have a domain which has expanded rapidly in terms of reach and usage and penetration into particular markets in our communities, well beyond the scope of the regulatory framework that was in place. Governments are seeking to catch up, and it is disappointing that we didn't see very much on this in the last nine years prior to our election, but we are seized of this. We understand how important it is. It is a very difficult area, and governments around the world are grappling with it. We welcome your and the crossbench's interest in this area. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Manufacturing Industry</title>
          <page.no>3660</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:58</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GREEN</name>
    <name.id>259819</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Minister for Resources, Senator Farrell. I refer to the Albanese Labor government's commitment to growing Australia's critical minerals industry to deliver secure, well-paid jobs and a future made in Australia. How will the production tax incentive for critical minerals encourage processing onshore, add value to our resources here in Australia and build a strong, resilient economy?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:58</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator Green, and I know you come from the great resources state of Queensland.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Birmingham</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Not now—once great.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>No, it'll stay great. Don't you worry! As this side of the chamber understands, the road to net zero is paved with Australian resources, resources that not only are extracted in Australia but are processed locally to create secure jobs and open up more pathways for skills and training. That includes critical minerals—an apt name given how critical they are to renewable technologies like solar panels and electric vehicles—</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Why don't you solve your own problems with your former leader of the opposition in South Australia, Senator? Why don't you focus on him rather than interfering with me? I know you're embarrassed by it! That's why the Labor Party announced the production tax incentive for critical minerals.</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>That's very unfair! I think you should withdraw that! That's for tax incentives and critical minerals as part of the most significant budget for the resources sector in a generation. It's a foolproof, no-risk approach to grow our critical minerals industry, strengthen supply chains and create well-paid jobs in the regions. Modelling shows that building downstream critical minerals processing could generate $70 billion in GDP and create an additional 143 jobs by 2040. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Green, first supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:00</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GREEN</name>
    <name.id>259819</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Minister, for outlining how the Albanese Labor government will grow our critical minerals industry to create secure jobs and capitalise on the transition to net zero as we deliver a future made in Australia. Who is supportive of the production tax incentive and the boost it will deliver to the critical minerals projects across the country?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:01</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Albanese Labor government's production tax incentive isn't just supported by the resources sector; it was developed in consultation with them. It's no wonder that the WA Nationals are supportive, and that includes the Nationals candidate for Bullwinkel, Mia Davies. Yes, she has welcomed downstream incentives. The leader of the WA Nationals, Shane Love, has said it is essential not just for Western Australia and not just for Australia but for the Western world to pursue production tax incentives like this. And it's not just the Nationals. Chalice Mining, who are developing a mining project in the Bullwinkel electorate, have hailed Labor's budget as providing crucial support to critical minerals.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Green, second supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:02</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GREEN</name>
    <name.id>259819</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Minister, for outlining why the sector supports the Albanese Labor government's production tax incentive for critical minerals to create secure jobs and encourage processing onshore. Minister, what is standing in the way of Labor's Future Made in Australia and our production tax credits, and what is at risk if Future Made in Australia isn't implemented?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:02</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>You don't have to look further than those opposite to see what's standing in the way of the production tax incentive for critical minerals. The coalition opposed it within minutes of budget night and labelled it 'corporate welfare for billionaires'. That's what they did. Well, the Future Made in Australia legislation has now passed the House, with 45 Liberals and Nationals speaking against the bill and refusing to support the production tax incentive. The five Liberal senators from Western Australia will have an opportunity to speak on this legislation, and I am looking forward to you, Senator Brockman, and your colleagues supporting our production tax incentives.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Wong</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>President, I ask that further questions be placed on the <inline font-style="italic">Notice Paper</inline>.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE: TAKE NOTE OF ANSWERS</title>
        <page.no>3661</page.no>
        <type>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE: TAKE NOTE OF ANSWERS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Live Animal Exports: Sheep, Agriculture Industry</title>
          <page.no>3661</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:04</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator COLBECK</name>
    <name.id>00AOL</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate take note of the answers given by ministers to questions without notice asked by Opposition senators today.</para></quote>
<para>Today, we saw a disgraceful and disrespectful performance from the government towards Australia's farmers. Australia's farmers came to Canberra from all over the country today. Some made the trek across the Nullarbor from Western Australia to express their concerns about government policy. Not one government member or senator was prepared to turn up out the front and meet with or talk to Australia's farmers. It's an absolute disgrace that the government weren't prepared to front up to our farmers. But worse, when we asked questions in the chamber today, the government's response was to diminish the presence of the farmers out the front—to undermine and diminish the number of farmers who came to Canberra to express their concerns and who had one point to make: would you listen to us? Not only would the government not listen to the farmers; they came into this place today during question time trying to diminish their presence. It was a shameful performance.</para>
<para>They talk about their Future Made in Australia policy. They talk about the work that they've done for farmers through the Food and Grocery Code of Conduct. They promised the farmers that, out of the Food and Grocery Code of Conduct, they would get a better deal. What does that add up to for my Tasmanian farmers? For pea growers in Tasmania, a better deal from the supermarkets means a 34 per cent cut in production. Coles wants to mitigate its risk, so what does it do? It decides to buy 9,000 tonnes of peas from overseas instead of getting it grown and processed in Tasmania. It's an absolute shame on those in government who talk the big talk, but, when it comes to genuine action, it's the farmers who end up with the raw end of the stick. That's exactly what has happened to farmers in Tasmania who now have a 34 per cent reduction in their pea crop for the next summer. What happened to the better deal they were promised from the Food and Grocery Code of Conduct? That didn't last long. It's only a few weeks since that policy was announced, and yet they are already getting dudded by the supermarkets, which have decided that they would prefer to buy products from India, Vietnam, China or New Zealand than from Australian farmers.</para>
<para>It's no wonder that the farmers turned up out the front of this building—thousands of them in their trucks—to express their dissatisfaction with the way they are being treated by this government, and not one member of the Labor Party had the courtesy to go out and do the one thing that they asked for them to do which was: 'Please listen to us. Come and talk to us; we can help you with your policy implementation.' Not one Labor member turned up.</para>
<para>They come in here and talk about their Future Made in Australia policy. What does that mean for Australian farmers? Coles buys their products overseas. What does the new Food and Grocery Code of Conduct mean for Australian farmers? They were promised it would mean a better deal for farmers. Coles have already decided to buy a third of their pea crop this year from overseas. There were 26,000 tonnes of peas produced in Tasmania last year; there will be 17,000 tonnes this coming season. What a great deal for Australian farmers! The government came in here. Not only did they disrespect the farmers by not turning up; they then turned up in the chamber and diminished their presence. It's an absolute disgrace, and it's no wonder that Australian farmers are angry. They just want to be heard.</para>
<para>I'm sure my colleagues will talk more about the impact on the sheep farmers in Western Australia who formed a large chunk of those out there today and who have seen their entire businesses and communities destroyed. The Labor Party needs to step up and do what the farmers have asked them to do and just listen.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:09</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator STERLE</name>
    <name.id>e68</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to make my contribution on questions from those on the other side. I just want to start by painting a picture. Let's go back a few steps, shall we, to before the pandemic. I remember—I don't make a habit of this, Mr Deputy President, but it just shows you how badly bored I was that Sunday—I had <inline font-style="italic">Insiders</inline> on! I just wanted to clarify that I don't make a habit of watching that crap.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I'm disappointed in you!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator STERLE</name>
    <name.id>e68</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I know, seriously. But it was on. Up popped former senator Marise Payne, who I had a lot of respect for all the years she was in here. I remember her going on about China and the start of the pandemic—I'm going to get to agriculture, make no mistake about that—and it was a real pile-on attack on China. I thought, 'Wow, that's unlike Senator Payne.' I think she might have been the Minister for Foreign Affairs at the time. Coming from Western Australia, where every second person and their kids and the dog have got fluoro shirts, I thought: 'Why are we attacking our greatest trading partner? Why are we acting like President Trump's sheriff in the region with this carry-on?' I'd just returned from a delegation to China not long before that and noticed how buoyed the Chinese were to be doing business with Australian farmers, particularly around barley, wine, timber and crayfish. I'll tell you what, from that day the damage that was done to our country—our agricultural exports to China just stopped. It wasn't until 2022, when the grown-ups were put back in charge of the treasury benches, that things changed.</para>
<para>I'd just say don't forget that—that that side over there didn't give a damn about the damage that that was going to do to our agricultural exporters, particularly in those fields. But I'll also say this. In 2023-24, Australia exported over 70 per cent of its agriculture, fisheries and forestry production to no fewer than 169 markets globally. I can safely say that's the most diversified trade has ever been. I have to say that that's thanks to the grown-ups being put back in charge—the Albanese Labor government.</para>
<para>After the coalition spent nearly a decade eroding and neglecting our relationships with other trading partners as well—and there was the disgraceful mismanagement, as I said, of the relationship with our biggest trading partner—we've put the runs back on the board for our farmers and our exporters. Restoration of market access for several agricultural and forestry products contributed to a record $17.4 billion in exports to China in 2023 alone. I can also say we recorded 88 technical market access achievements in the year 2023-24, including opening 10 new markets and getting 44 improvements to existing access. There were 34 actions to maintain or restore markets which protected markets worth no less than $4.6 billion. And, for the live cattle export industry, this government ensured that over $700 million of Australian animal products could continue to be traded in the event of a lumpy skin disease incursion, through ongoing emergency animal diseases preparedness work.</para>
<para>Let's think about that. I remember we had not long come into government when we had the fear of FMD in Indonesia, and the prompt response of this government—and I applaud Minister Watt, as I know the industry did at the time. We talked to industry, listened to industry and implemented the systems recommended by industry.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Ciccone</name>
    <name.id>281503</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Those opposite didn't support it!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator STERLE</name>
    <name.id>e68</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>You're right, Senator Ciccone. They didn't, and, in fact, they took every opportunity to run scare campaigns on how our red meat and cattle industry was going to be decimated.</para>
<para>We've also seen the entry into force of our free trade agreements with the UK and India under this government—well done, Minister Farrell—as well as the ongoing negotiations with the UAE and the EU. We've also invested no less than $1.03 billion of long-term, sustainable funding to strengthen Australia's biosecurity system, including nearly $7 million into ensuring Australia's ready for any detection of the latest strain of avian flu.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:14</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BROCKMAN</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Sterle tried valiantly there to defend this government's record, but of course what he ignored completely—I don't think it even got a mention—was the elephant in the room, particularly in relation to Western Australia, and that is the live export trade in sheep. That has broken the relationship between the Labor government and the agricultural industry, where I have seen no issue before. That is because the justification for this policy is threadbare. It's about preferences from radical animal activist parties in inner-city seats in the eastern states in return for an entire industry out of my home state of Western Australia.</para>
<para>Last year I rose in this place and asked questions about the devastation of confidence that had flown through the Western Australian agricultural sector on the back of the Labor government's decision to ban live exports, and those opposite just laughed it off. But now we see it in practice. We see it in the government's own numbers—that the herd, the flock has declined in Western Australia by anywhere up to 50 per cent. Yes, there was a drought involved, and yes, there was a restocking into the eastern states. But the fact is that the lack of confidence, the banning of the live export trade, combined with that reduction in flock numbers, will mean that Labor's promise is not going to happen. You've got to remember that Labor promised to see this live export industry replaced by chilled meat exports. That's not going to happen. There aren't going to be the sheep in WA, because you have destroyed the industry. You have destroyed confidence in the industry. You have destroyed the size of the industry. Sheep numbers have declined by anywhere up to 50 per cent in two years. Lamb numbers in Western Australia are going to be down by 35 per cent this season on current estimates.</para>
<para>The question now is not about opening new processing facilities in WA. The question now is when the next processing facility will close down in WA, because this Labor government's policy decision has completely destroyed confidence and destroyed scale. And the people who suffer aren't just the farmers. It's the communities. It's the truckies. It's the shearers. The Labor Party, the party that was formed by striking pastoral workers and shearers in Queensland, has now turned its back on that industry. There will be no wool industry in Western Australia, as the self-replacing merino flock loses one of its key economic drivers, which is the export of the wethers from the production system. That won't come back, unless there is a light at the end of the tunnel.</para>
<para>That light at the end of the tunnel is that when we go to the polls—this year, maybe; probably next year—we see a Peter Dutton led Liberal coalition government that restores the trade and backs in our export partners overseas. For those who are purchasing our sheep, who have invested in their systems, who have invested in animal welfare, who have invested in taking their standards up to ours—raising their animal welfare standards up to Australian standards in order to participate in this trade—that is the light at the end of the tunnel. That is the hope for the sheep industry in my home state of WA. That is why we had truckies, shearers and farmers travel to Canberra from WA, some of whom left home three or four days ago.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:19</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GROGAN</name>
    <name.id>296331</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>It's been fascinating to sit and listen to Senator Brockman and his obvious complete and utter lack of understanding of what's going on here, but I'll come to that. Let me first say that farmers are the backbone of our agricultural industry, and we do listen and engage with the industry. In response to the fanciful commentary that no-one invited went to meet with the farmers, I had a quick poll around this side of the chamber; no-one was invited. When did we see that happen before? That might have been the last time that Senator McKenzie rallied a bunch of farmers here and told them that invitations had been provided to various ministers. I also checked with those ministers. Invitations hadn't been provided. Making up stuff like this is just so ridiculous. It's so desperate.</para>
<para>Let me just provide a little fact for those opposite. They don't really like facts these days. They seem to have departed from that somewhat. In 2014-15, 2.1 million sheep were exported. Who was in government then? I think that was you lot. Then, in 2021-22, that number had dropped to 450,000 sheep exported. That seems like quite a significant drop under the timeframe of those opposite, the Liberal-National government. Yet Senator Brockman stands there quite cheerfully and blames all the reduction in those exports on us.</para>
<para>When the Libs and the Nats stand up and say that this is all shock, horror and amazement, let's just be clear. There are no surprises here. The Labor Party went to the last two elections committing to phase out live sheep exports by sea. We didn't hide it. We were very clear and very honest about what we were going to do. And, when we got into government, that's exactly what we did.</para>
<para>I also refer to Senator Brockman's entertaining comments that ending live sheep exports would lead to the closure of sheep processing. Where to start? Live sheep are, not to put too fine a point on it, live, right? So they're not going to the abattoirs. They're not going through processing. Live sheep that are not exported stay here and can be processed, right? So, yes, let's keep the sheep. Let's keep them in Australia. Let's process them here. Let's process them here for our market, or we can process them here and export them—because Senator Brockman seems to have misunderstood the whole idea of live sheep exports. It's not a sheep export ban; it is a live sheep export ban.</para>
<para>I would also draw the senator's attention—in fact, the whole chamber's attention—to the fact that there are two WA abattoirs and processors that I know of that are expanding their operations. There's an increasing sheep supply. What they're seeing as the move is happening is that there's more processing. As part of the move to not exporting live sheep by sea, they are seeing more sheep to process. So they are ramping up their businesses. They are investing in their businesses to process those sheep. In fact, one of them is adding an entire extra shift and 200 new jobs. The other one has invested $50 million in a cold storage as part of its expansion because it sees the industry growing. They see greater opportunities for them to take those sheep that are no longer going to be exported and to process them here.</para>
<para>But let's be clear—there's $107 million on the table and four years to make the transition. It looks like those abattoirs in Senator Brockman's home state of WA are doing pretty well. They are looking at the opportunities here and making the most of them. I would suggest that those opposite stop trying to politicise this issue and stop using the farmers for their own political pointscoring and get on board with supporting them. That transition in the industry is going to make a difference. There are going to be more jobs in WA, and there are going to be more opportunities.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:24</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DAVEY</name>
    <name.id>281697</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I could spend my whole time just rebutting one senator's contribution, but I actually want to rebut the whole way Labor treated this issue during question time today. This government has today cemented its antifarming agenda. After the PM's performance at the Minerals Council last night, where he walked into a room full of miners and talked about how good transitioning and battery power would be, you can tell this government doesn't listen to the industries that keep this country going.</para>
<para>In reply to my first question about their anti-ag policies—about the biosecurity tax, ute tax and truckies tax—we got platitudes about how Labor care for all Australians. Well, if they care for all Australians, what about the Australians who are paying 12 per cent more on their grocery bills? They're also paying more on all of the input costs that contribute to those grocery bills. That's gas, which is up 33 per cent; that's electricity, which is up 14 per cent; and that's insurance, which is up 17 per cent. Not only are they contributing to higher grocery bills; every single Australian is facing those higher costs at home as well.</para>
<para>Then, when I asked why they're focusing on water buybacks rather than addressing the real environmental degradation, such as carp, I was instructed to rephrase because 'water isn't in agriculture'. Seriously? We all know that agriculture is highly dependent on water, be it through irrigation or through rainfall and climate conditions. But I rephrased. I asked why they continue to take water out of irrigated agriculture, harming our irrigation communities, because this government continues to ignore even research from the likes of the University of Adelaide, who just recently reported that negative whole-of-icon site scores for the Coorong and Lower Lakes were not only lower this year than in January-February 2022 but also at their lowest recorded health since the end of the millennium drought and the commencement of the Basin Plan. Think about that.</para>
<para>This government ignores the fact that irrigated agriculture is now extracting less than a third of the flows in the Murray-Darling Basin, less than the scientists decreed would be sustainable diversion limits, but this government still goes out with a chequebook to rip water out of productive agricultural use. The minister today didn't even try to address the issues of Tasmanian pea farmers or fruitgrowers around Shepparton, who have had all their contracts cut because the big supermarkets find that it is cheaper to import than to buy Australian grown produce.</para>
<para>So, while Senator Sterle still stands up and talks about our great agricultural export statistics, they've got to realise that our agricultural exports are growing in spite of this government, not because of this government. Senator Sterle had the hide to discuss forestry exports. That's coming from a Labor government when Labor is closing native forestry across Australia. In Victoria, they've shut native forestry. In Western Australia, they've shut native forestry. This government has to stop ignoring the facts—that its policies are leading to a decline in Australian agricultural capacity to produce. With the Murray-Darling Basin Plan, we're seeing a decline in dairy and other irrigated commodities, and it continues on and on.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Social Media</title>
          <page.no>3664</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:29</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LAMBIE</name>
    <name.id>250026</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate take note of the answer given by the Minister for Foreign Affairs (Senator Wong) to a question without notice I asked today relating to social media.</para></quote>
<para>The Prime Minister announced today that a re-elected Albanese government would ban the under-16s from using social media. It sounds great, yeah? I am all for sending a message that kids are damaged by excessive social media use, but my worry is that kids will be able to get around these bans. There is a heap the government could be doing right now to rein in the tech giants, but they don't have the courage to do it. The headline looks good, right? I reckon it's just a smokescreen for their lack of action on gambling reform. Suck that one up today!</para>
<para>Like I said, there is a lot the government could be doing now to let tech giants know that the government is serious about protecting Australian kids and adults from social media harm. At a hearing of the Joint Select Committee on Social Media and Australian Society, Meta said their products do not harm children. They should have an acting award. I wasn't in the room, but apparently they said this with straight faces. They've got to be kidding, yeah? Australia does have a regulatory framework for online safety, but the act was written in a world where just removing the content would fix the problem. That's important, but it doesn't address the use of algorithms and the way big tech giants design them to pull in kids and keep them there.</para>
<para>Company documents from Meta cited in a US case describe several Meta officials acknowledging that the company designed its products to exploit young minds. These include a May 2020 internal presentation called 'Teen Fundamentals', which highlighted certain vulnerabilities of the young brain that could be exploited by product development. The presentation discussed teen brains' relative immaturity and teenagers' tendency to be driven by emotion, the intrigue of novelty, and reward, and asked how these characteristics could manifest in product usage. In that case and others, Meta said they would rather parents and app stores do the policing. They've passed the buck and you've allowed them to get away with it. You've got to be kidding me! They want the parents to do this with the kids, when it's not even their product. You should be ashamed of yourselves today!</para>
<para>Honestly, it just keeps getting worse. One Facebook safety executive even suggested that cracking down on younger users and what they might be exposed to might hurt the company's business. How about that—right out there? In 2021, Frances Haugen, a former Facebook product manager, blew the whistle, telling US senators that Facebook's products harm children and stoke division and that Facebook could do something about it if they wanted to. She said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">These problems are solvable. A safer, free-speech respecting, more enjoyable social media is possible … Facebook can change, but is clearly not going to do so on its own.</para></quote>
<para>During her testimony Ms Haugen blamed Facebook's algorithm and platform design decisions for many of its issues.</para>
<para>Earlier this year, at the National Press Club, Ms Haugen warned a 'bumper sticker solution' like banning children under 16 from social media could jeopardise a historic chance for meaningful change. In other words, it's just a lazy way of trying to get around it. She said, 'In the case of bans, you're almost saying the problem with these platforms is the children, not the platforms themselves.' It's the platforms that are the problem, not our children, and until you start holding them responsible and doing something to those platforms nothing is ever going to change—okay? Nothing is going to change! This is becoming a joke—your government over there—and I've had enough of it. The government should take a look at what Europe is doing. Have a damn good look at what it's doing. They have the Digital Services Act. They regulate the algorithms. That's the one—regulating the algorithms. What's stopping you?</para>
<para>Even if our government had the spine to look at serious regulation like Europe's, it wouldn't solve all the problems. We need to teach our kids to be digitally literate. In Finland they teach kids from primary school age critical thinking skills. That's right—they're called critical thinking skills. That's so they know what they're looking at, so they know how to check what is true and what isn't. We could also be teaching emotional intelligence when our kids are at primary school, but you don't want to invest in that either. You just want to continue to do what previous governments have done and keep putting bandaid fixes on things. That is why you never get the solutions that you want. That's why you've got kids out there on the streets out of control.</para>
<para>This is your fault. This is your government, this is your responsibility, and you are failing our children and their future. You are failing them because you don't have the courage to stand up to the tech giants. You are going to be the people responsible for the failure of the future. It is going to be your government, because of your lack of courage. What is new in this place? You want to put a bandaid here and a bandaid there, instead of stinging the queen bee where it needs to be stung—right at Meta. This is Meta's responsibility, and you're not holding them accountable—what's new? You're not holding people accountable for what they're doing in destroying our kids' lives in Australia. You should be ashamed of yourselves today.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>NOTICES</title>
        <page.no>3665</page.no>
        <type>NOTICES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Presentation</title>
          <page.no>3665</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:35</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CHISHOLM</name>
    <name.id>39801</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I give notice that, on the next sitting day, I shall move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the provisions of paragraphs (5) to (8) of standing order 111 not apply to the following bills, allowing them to be considered during this period of sittings:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Better and Fairer Schools (Information Management) Bill 2024</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">National Health Amendment (Technical Changes to Averaging Price Disclosure Threshold and Other Matters) Bill 2024.</para></quote>
<para>I also table statements of reasons justifying the need for the bills to be considered during these sittings and seek leave to have the statements incorporated in <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline>.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<para> <inline font-style="italic">The statements read as follows</inline> <inline font-style="italic">—</inline></para>
<quote><para class="block">Better And Fairer Schools (Information Management) Bill</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Purpose of the Bill</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill will amend the <inline font-style="italic">Student Identifiers Act 2014</inline> to enable the assignment and maintenance of unique identifiers for school students by the Student Identifiers Registrar and authorise the collection, use and disclosure of those identifiers in specified circumstances.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Reasons for Urgency</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Implementation of unique student identifiers (USIs) for all Australian school students is a national initiative agreed by the Australian Government and all state and territory governments under the current National School Reform Agreement (NSRA).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The bill provides for the allocation of Schools USIs backed by strong privacy protections. First Ministers and Education Ministers have agreed that expansion of USIs to school students is needed to support a better understanding of student progression and to improve the national evidence base. The first use of the Schools USI will be as a data element within the Student Data Transfer Protocol (SDTP), supporting the sharing of information when a student moves between schools and systems. The SDTP is a key element in the response of governments to recommendations of the 2017 Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill must be passed in the 2024 Spring sitting period to ensure that all Australian Government arrangements for the Schools USI are completed by the end of 2024 in line with commitments made under the NSRA, which terminates at the end of 2024. With the completion of Commonwealth legislative amendments by the end of 2024, jurisdictions will be positioned to make their own legislative changes to allow USIs to be issued to school students in their state or territory. Without the passage of the Commonwealth legislation in the 2024 Spring sittings, progress on national implementation will be delayed.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">National Health Amendment (Technical Changes To Averaging Price Disclosure Threshold And Other Matters) Bill</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Purpose of the Bill</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill clarifies the operation of section 99ADH(6)(b) of the <inline font-style="italic">National Health Act 1953 </inline>(the NH Act),which forms part of a test for when a price disclosure reduction may occur following sustained discounting across related brands of medicines. The amendments clarify that for a brand to be subject to a price reduction under 12.5% average unadjusted price reduction test, that a price reduction cannot have occurred as a result of calculations using data from the 3 consecutive data collection periods used in the test. The amendments will apply retrospectively and prospectively to ensure the understanding of the provisions is consistent with the Parliament's intention when it passed the Amendment Act, removing any possible doubt as to how these provisions have operated to date, and how they will continue to operate.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill also clarifies the date on which a brand will become a designated brand as the result of satisfying section 99ADHC(1)(a) of the NH Act (which relates to older medicines which are listed on the PBS). This Bill clarifies the time period referred to by 'previous data collection period' in s99ADHC of the NH Act, and makes clear the policy intent in relation to older medicines that a brand becomes a designated brand, subject to the minimum stockholding requirement in the NH Act, and receives the benefit of more protective price reduction thresholds and floor price protections, all from the same date.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Reasons for Urgency</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Price disclosure reductions to certain medicines listed on the PBS may occur on 1 April or 1 October in each year, based upon whether the relevant thresholds in section 99ADH of the NH Act are met for a reduction to occur. These price reductions result in savings to the Commonwealth and to patients, and ensure that the price which is paid for multi-branded medicines listed on the PBS more closely reflects the price at which medicines are sold in the market.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill amends section 99ADH of the NH Act to clarify understanding of the provisions reflective of the policy intent. The policy intent of the relevant provision (as enacted) is made clear in the Explanatory Memorandum for the <inline font-style="italic">National Health (Enhancing the Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme) Amendment Act 2021 </inline>(the 2021 Amendment Act). The Explanatory Memorandum expressly states that, for relevant brands, <inline font-style="italic">'there will be no further price reductions under the Act unless, over a period of three consecutive data collection periods (1.5 years), the brand is discounted on average by 12.5% or more without taking a price reduction, or if the brand is discounted by more than 30% in any one price disclosure cycle'</inline>.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This legislation must be passed prior to 1 October 2024 to be applicable to price reductions which are applied on 1 October 2024 and 1 April 2025. The amendments will remove any possible doubt as to how these provisions have operated to date, and how they will continue to operate.</para></quote>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Presentation</title>
          <page.no>3666</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>PARLIAMENTARY REPRESENTATION</title>
        <page.no>3668</page.no>
        <type>PARLIAMENTARY REPRESENTATION</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Rennick, Senator Gerard</title>
          <page.no>3668</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:36</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RENNICK</name>
    <name.id>283596</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a short statement about my new status as an Independent senator.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Leave is granted for one minute.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RENNICK</name>
    <name.id>283596</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I inform the Senate that I have resigned from the Liberal National Party of Queensland and now sit as an Independent senator for Queensland. I also inform the Senate that I should be designated as a whip for the purposes of standing order 24A relating to the Selection of Bills Committee.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>NOTICES</title>
        <page.no>3668</page.no>
        <type>NOTICES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Postponement</title>
          <page.no>3668</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BUSINESS</title>
        <page.no>3668</page.no>
        <type>BUSINESS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Consideration of Legislation</title>
          <page.no>3668</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:38</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ASKEW</name>
    <name.id>281558</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>At the request of Senator Cash, I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the following bills be listed as separate orders of the day:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Building and Construction Industry (Restoring Integrity and Reducing Building Costs) Bill 2024</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Fair Work (Registered Organisations) Amendment (Removing Criminals from Worksites) Bill 2024.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>3668</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Services Australia</title>
          <page.no>3668</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>3668</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:38</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ASKEW</name>
    <name.id>281558</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>At the request of Senator Kovacic, I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That there be laid on the table by the Minister representing the Minister for the National Disability Insurance Scheme and Minister for Government Services, by no later than midday on 19 September 2024:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) Services Australia's latest 2 program status reports produced for each active program;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) all papers, including attachments, prepared by Services Australia to support members of the interim Services Australia Independent Advisory Board for their meeting of 17 and 18 June 2024;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) the record of meeting of the interim Services Australia Independent Advisory Board for their meeting of 17 and 18 June 2024;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(d) the name of each deep dive, the date the deep dive was held and the rationale for each deep dive conducted by Services Australia over the past 6 months;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(e) the latest Q4 quarterly performance assurance report sent from Services Australia to the Department of Social Services; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(f) the list of policy simplification suggestions, and associated correspondence, sent to the Department of Social Services pertaining to the crisis payment, as noted in Services Australia's Q3 quarterly performance assurance report for 2023-24.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Australian Bureau of Statistics</title>
          <page.no>3669</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>3669</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:39</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DEAN SMITH</name>
    <name.id>241710</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That there be laid on the table by the Minister representing the Treasurer, by no later than midday on 16 September 2024, all written or digital correspondence, briefing notes, file notes, meeting notes, meeting agendas or minutes, or other records of interaction, from 20 May 2024 until 6 September 2024 between:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) the Australian Bureau of Statistics and the Assistant Minister for Competition, Charities and Treasury or his office;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) the Australian Bureau of Statistics and the Treasurer or his office;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) the Australian Bureau of Statistics and the Prime Minister or his office;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(d) the Assistant Minister for Competition, Charities and Treasury or his office and the Treasurer or his office;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(e) the Assistant Minister for Competition, Charities and Treasury or his office and the Prime Minister or his office; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(f) the Treasurer or his office and the Prime Minister or his office;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">in relation to preparations for the 2026 Census, including:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(g) the questions that will or will not be asked;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(h) its drafting; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) its contents.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Department of Climate Change, Energy, the Environment and Water</title>
          <page.no>3669</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>3669</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:40</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKIM</name>
    <name.id>JKM</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>At the request of Senator Whish-Wilson, I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That there be laid on the table by the Minister representing the Minister for the Environment and Water, by no later than 10 am on Tuesday, 8 October 2024:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) any written correspondence and documentation between the Minister for the Environment and Water, the Department of Climate Change, Energy, the Environment and Water and ACEN Australia (and its parent company Ayala), related to the impacts and management of Tasmanian devil populations on Robbins Island, Tasmania, including any provisions for offset covenanted Tasmanian devil habitat; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) any written correspondence and documentation related to the impacts and management of Tasmanian devil populations on Robbins Island, Tasmania between ACEN Australia (and its parent company Ayala) and ministerial offices and departments prior to the commencement of the 47th Parliament.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>McPhillamys Gold Project</title>
          <page.no>3669</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>3669</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:40</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DUNIAM</name>
    <name.id>263418</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That there be laid on the table by the Minister representing the Minister for the Environment and Water, by no later than midday on Monday, 16 September 2024, the statement of reasons by the Minister for the Environment and Water in respect of her declaration on the tailings dam of the McPhillamys Gold Project, under section 10 of the <inline font-style="italic">Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Heritage Protection Act 1984</inline>.</para></quote>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that general business notice of motion No. 601, standing in the name of Senator Duniam, be agreed to.</para>
<para> </para>
<para> </para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [15:45] <br />(The President—Senator Lines) </p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>29</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Askew, W.</name>
                  <name>Babet, R.</name>
                  <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A.</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                  <name>Darmanin, L.</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                  <name>Ghosh, V.</name>
                  <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                  <name>Grogan, K.</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J.</name>
                  <name>Liddle, K. J.</name>
                  <name>Lines, S.</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M.</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                  <name>Polley, H.</name>
                  <name>Pratt, L. C.</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M. I.</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                  <name>Smith, D. A.</name>
                  <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                  <name>Stewart, J. N. A.</name>
                  <name>Tyrrell, T. M.</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, A. E. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Van, D. A.</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>11</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                  <name>Cox, D.</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                  <name>Hodgins-May, S.</name>
                  <name>McKim, N. J. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                  <name>Shoebridge, D.</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, P. S.</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names />
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to. </p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division></subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Civil Aviation Safety Authority</title>
          <page.no>3670</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>3670</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:47</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator</name>
    <name.id>266524</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>ROBERTS () (): I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) the Senate notes that:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) order for the production of documents no. 580 required the Minister representing the Minister for Infrastructure, Transport, Regional Development and Local Government to table certain Civil Aviation Safety Authority permits in respect of helicopter flights relating to the national fire ant eradication program by no later than midday on 21 August 2024, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) the order was not complied with by the deadline; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) there be laid on the table by the Minister representing the Minister for Infrastructure, Transport, Regional Development and Local Government, by no later than midday on 11 September 2024, all documents required by order for the production of documents no. 580.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>McPhillamys Gold Project</title>
          <page.no>3670</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>3670</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:47</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DUNIAM</name>
    <name.id>263418</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That there be laid on the table by the Minister representing the Minister for the Environment and Water, by no later than midday on Tuesday, 8 October 2024:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) all correspondence between the Minister for the Environment and Water (the minister) and the Wiradyuri Traditional Owners Central West Aboriginal Corporation since 1 March 2024;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) all correspondence between the minister and the Prime Minister and his office in relation to the McPhillamys Gold Project;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) all correspondence between the Department of Climate Change, Energy, the Environment and Water and the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet in relation to the McPhillamys Gold Project;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(d) all correspondence between the minister and the New South Wales (NSW) Minister for the Environment, the Minister for Heritage, the Minister for Climate Change and the Minister for Energy in relation to the McPhillamys Gold Project;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(e) all correspondence between the minister and the NSW Minister for Finance, the Minister for Domestic Manufacturing and Government Procurement, and the Minister for Natural Resources; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(f) all correspondence between the minister and the Premier of New South Wales in relation to the McPhillamys Gold Project.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Department of Climate Change, Energy, the Environment and Water</title>
          <page.no>3671</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>3671</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:48</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DUNIAM</name>
    <name.id>263418</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That there be laid on the table by the Minister representing the Minister for the Environment and Water, by no later than midday on Tuesday, 17 September 2024, a copy of the following documents as noted in 'Appendix E: List of Documents Reviewed' of the June 2024 assurance review into the Macquarie Island Modernisation Project, denoted as document number 2024-002525 and tabled in the Senate on 21 August 2024:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) Macquarie Island Future Station Government submission—provided in PE environment;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) Macquarie Island—Detailed Business Case—MIMP Executive Summary 18 Mar 24 FINAL;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) Macquarie Island—Detailed Business Case—SFAPMI—FAQ—18.03.24 FINAL;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(d) Macquarie Island—Detailed Business Case—2024 FINAL;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(e) AAD/21/0009—MIMP—AECOM Macquarie Island geotechnical report (2023) RP-GT-0001.1 (Clean Original Report);</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(f) AAD/21/0009—MIMP—AECOM Macquarie Island Landslide Susceptibility Assessment September 2023;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(g) AAD/21/0009—(MIMP)—Strategic WHS Risk Assessment of Macquarie Island Operations (V3 October 2023); and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(h) Macquarie Island—2024-03 Antarctic Infrastructure—ESS Monthly Report March 2024.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>3671</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>First Nations Representative Bodies Select Committee</title>
          <page.no>3671</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Appointment</title>
            <page.no>3671</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:48</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LIDDLE</name>
    <name.id>300644</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I, and also on behalf of Senators Lambie and Thorpe, move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) That a select committee, to be known as the Select Committee on First Nations Representative Bodies, be established to inquire into and report on the role, governance and accountability of native title representative bodies and prescribed bodies corporate, with particular reference to:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) the effectiveness of the <inline font-style="italic">Native Title Act 1993</inline> (the Act) and related state, territory and federal institutional and policy frameworks in addressing inequalities in the negotiating position of First Peoples, with specific reference to the principles of free, prior and informed consent;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) the process, quality and effectiveness of consultation and consent processes with traditional custodians with respect to:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) ascertaining the views of traditional owners and native title holders and applicants,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) negotiations on behalf of traditional custodians,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(iii) communication with traditional custodians,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(iv) maintenance and accuracy of the register of members,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(v) opportunity for dissenting views and the management of dissenting views and conciliation of disputes,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(vi) declaration and management of conflicts of interest, including but not limited to connections to and involvement with proponents, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(vii) transparency and accountability in decision-making processes;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) the current operation of the future acts regime and other relevant parts of the Act, including section 31 (right to negotiate), section 66B (replacement of the applicant) and Part 6 (the operation of the National Native Title Tribunal);</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(d) ensuring transparency and accountability in decision-making, financial and other operations, including corporate reporting responsibilities and conducting directors' meetings, annual general meetings and special general meetings;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(e) the availability, accessibility, impact and accountability of public sector funding for:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) prescribed bodies corporate,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) native title representative bodies,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(iii) land councils,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(iv) traditional custodians to pursue native title claims outside of native title representative bodies, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(v) native title claim respondents/objectors;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(f) the explicit authority and responsibilities of prescribed bodies corporate and representative bodies under the Act;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(g) opportunities for reforming existing institutional, legislative and policy frameworks, including new accountability or governance arrangements, to better advance the rights and economic, social, environmental and cultural aspirations of First Peoples; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(h) other related matters.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) That the committee present its final report by 26 August 2025.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) That the committee consist of 6 senators, as follows:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) two nominated by the Leader of the Government in the Senate;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) two nominated by the Leader of the Opposition in the Senate;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) Senator Thorpe; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(d) one nominated by minority party or independent senators.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(4) That:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) participating members may be appointed to the committee on the nomination of the Leader of the Government in the Senate, the Leader of the Opposition in the Senate or any minority party or independent senator; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) participating members may participate in hearings of evidence and deliberations of the committee, and have all the rights of members of the committee, but may not vote on any questions before the committee.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(5) That if a member of the committee is unable to attend a meeting of the committee, that member may in writing to the chair appoint a participating member to act as a substitute member of the committee at that meeting. If the member is incapacitated or unavailable, a letter to the chair appointing a participating member to act as a substitute member of the committee may be signed on behalf of the member by the leader of the party or group on whose nomination the member was appointed to the committee.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(6) That the committee elect as chair a member nominated by the Leader of the Opposition in the Senate, and as its deputy chair, a member nominated by the Leader of the Government in the Senate or any independent senator.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(7) That the deputy chair shall act as chair when the chair is absent from a meeting of the committee or the position of chair is temporarily vacant.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(8) That the chair, or the deputy chair when acting as chair, may appoint another member of the committee to act as chair during the temporary absence of both the chair and deputy chair at a meeting of the committee.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(9) That, in the event of an equally divided vote, the chair, or the deputy chair when acting as chair, have a casting vote.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(10) That the committee have power to send for and examine persons and documents, to move from place to place, to sit in public or in private, notwithstanding any prorogation of the Parliament or dissolution of the House of Representatives, and have leave to report from time to time its proceedings and the evidence taken and such interim recommendations as it may deem fit.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(11) That the committee be provided with all necessary staff, facilities and resources and be empowered to appoint persons with specialist knowledge for the purposes of the committee with the approval of the President.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(12) That the committee be empowered to print from day to day such papers and evidence as may be ordered by it, and a daily Hansard be published of such proceedings as take place in public.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:48</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DAVID POCOCK</name>
    <name.id>256136</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I move an amendment to the motion as circulated:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the motion be amended to read as follows:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">That the following matter be referred to the Legal and Constitutional Affairs References Committee for inquiry and report by 26 August 2025:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) the effectiveness of the <inline font-style="italic">Native Title Act 1993 </inline>(the Act) and related state, territory and federal institutional and policy frameworks in addressing inequalities in the negotiating position of First Peoples, with specific reference to the principles of free, prior and informed consent;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) the process, quality and effectiveness of consultation and consent processes with traditional custodians with respect to:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) ascertaining the views of traditional owners and native title holders and applicants,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) negotiations on behalf of traditional custodians,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(iii) communication with traditional custodians,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(iv) maintenance and accuracy of the register of members,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(v) opportunity for dissenting views and the management of dissenting views and conciliation of disputes,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(vi) declaration and management of conflicts of interest, including but not limited to connections to and involvement with proponents, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(vii) transparency and accountability in decision-making processes;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) the current operation of the future acts regime and other relevant parts of the Act, including section 31 (right to negotiate), section 66B (replacement of the applicant) and Part 6 (the operation of the National Native Title Tribunal);</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(d) ensuring transparency and accountability in decision-making, financial and other operations, including corporate reporting responsibilities and conducting directors' meetings, annual general meetings and special general meetings;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(e) the availability, accessibility, impact and accountability of public sector funding for:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) prescribed bodies corporate,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) native title representative bodies,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(iii) land councils,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(iv) traditional custodians to pursue native title claims outside of native title representative bodies, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(v) native title claim respondents/objectors;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(f) the explicit authority and responsibilities of prescribed bodies corporate and representative bodies under the Act;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(g) opportunities for reforming existing institutional, legislative and policy frameworks, including new accountability or governance arrangements, to better advance the rights and economic, social, environmental and cultural aspirations of First Peoples; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(h) other related matters.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:49</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CHISHOLM</name>
    <name.id>39801</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a short statement.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Leave is granted for one minute.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CHISHOLM</name>
    <name.id>39801</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>We do not support this motion. We don't need another standing committee with another review; we need to make sure existing reviews are completed and implemented. The motion isn't about good governance; it's about politics. Various other similar reviews are underway or being implemented. These should run their course. For example, the Australian Law Reform Commission is already reviewing native title. The review will report in December 2025, similar to the proposed motion. The same witnesses would be encouraged to appear at both inquiries. This is part of the government's additional $20.8 million contribution over four years to improve the native title system, of which the ALRC review is the first part.</para>
<para>A brand-new standing committee launching a whole new review would be at best duplicative and wasteful; at worst it would be destructive and harmful. Small First Nations groups do not have the resourcing to respond to multiple inquiries on the same topic. First Nations communities already experience consultation fatigue. This wasteful duplication would be confusing and distressing for First Nations communities.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the amendment moved by Senator David Pocock to general business notice of motion No. 587 be agreed to.</para>
<para> </para>
<para> </para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [15:54]<br />(The President—Senator Lines)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>32</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Antic, A.</name>
                  <name>Askew, W. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Babet, R.</name>
                  <name>Bragg, A. J.</name>
                  <name>Brockman, W. E.</name>
                  <name>Canavan, M. J.</name>
                  <name>Chandler, C.</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                  <name>Davey, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, D. J.</name>
                  <name>Hanson, P. L.</name>
                  <name>Henderson, S. M.</name>
                  <name>Hughes, H. A.</name>
                  <name>Hume, J.</name>
                  <name>Kovacic, M.</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J.</name>
                  <name>Liddle, K. J.</name>
                  <name>McDonald, S. E.</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J.</name>
                  <name>McLachlan, A. L.</name>
                  <name>Nampijinpa Price, J. S.</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, M. A.</name>
                  <name>Paterson, J. W.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                  <name>Rennick, G.</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M. I.</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A.</name>
                  <name>Scarr, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Sharma, D. N.</name>
                  <name>Smith, D. A.</name>
                  <name>Van, D. A.</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>32</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                  <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A.</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                  <name>Cox, D.</name>
                  <name>Darmanin, L.</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                  <name>Ghosh, V.</name>
                  <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                  <name>Grogan, K.</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                  <name>Hodgins-May, S.</name>
                  <name>Lines, S.</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M.</name>
                  <name>McKim, N. J.</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Payman, F.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                  <name>Polley, H.</name>
                  <name>Pratt, L. C.</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                  <name>Shoebridge, D.</name>
                  <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                  <name>Stewart, J. N. A.</name>
                  <name>Tyrrell, T. M.</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, A. E. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                  <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, P. S.</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names />
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:57</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that general business notice of motion No. 587 standing in the name of Senator Liddle and others be agreed to.</para>
<para> </para>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [15:57]<br />(The President—Senator Lines)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>31</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Antic, A.</name>
                  <name>Askew, W. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Babet, R.</name>
                  <name>Bragg, A. J.</name>
                  <name>Brockman, W. E.</name>
                  <name>Canavan, M. J.</name>
                  <name>Chandler, C.</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                  <name>Davey, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, D. J.</name>
                  <name>Hanson, P. L.</name>
                  <name>Henderson, S. M.</name>
                  <name>Hughes, H. A.</name>
                  <name>Hume, J.</name>
                  <name>Kovacic, M.</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J.</name>
                  <name>Liddle, K. J.</name>
                  <name>McDonald, S. E.</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J.</name>
                  <name>McLachlan, A. L.</name>
                  <name>Nampijinpa Price, J. S.</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, M. A.</name>
                  <name>Paterson, J. W.</name>
                  <name>Rennick, G.</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M. I.</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A.</name>
                  <name>Scarr, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Sharma, D. N.</name>
                  <name>Smith, D. A.</name>
                  <name>Van, D. A.</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>33</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                  <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A.</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                  <name>Cox, D.</name>
                  <name>Darmanin, L.</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                  <name>Ghosh, V.</name>
                  <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                  <name>Grogan, K.</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                  <name>Hodgins-May, S.</name>
                  <name>Lines, S.</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M.</name>
                  <name>McKim, N. J.</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Payman, F.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                  <name>Polley, H.</name>
                  <name>Pratt, L. C.</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                  <name>Shoebridge, D.</name>
                  <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                  <name>Stewart, J. N. A.</name>
                  <name>Tyrrell, T. M.</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, A. E. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                  <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, P. S.</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names />
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division></subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>3674</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade</title>
          <page.no>3674</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>3674</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:59</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CHANDLER</name>
    <name.id>264449</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That there be laid on the table by the Minister for Foreign Affairs, by no later than midday on 11 September 2024, the funding agreement negotiated between the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade and the United Nations Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA), under which the Australian Government made a $6 million contribution to the UNRWA flash appeal in 2024.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:59</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CHISHOLM</name>
    <name.id>39801</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I move an amendment to the motion:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Omit "midday on 11 September 2024", substitute "10 am on 16 September 2024".</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Original question, as amended, agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Cbus Super Fund</title>
          <page.no>3675</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>3675</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:00</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator</name>
    <name.id>281558</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>ASKEW (—) (): At the request of Senator Bragg, I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) notes that:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) order for the production of documents no. 350, agreed to on 17 October 2023, relating to communications between CBUS Super Fund and the Treasurer and his office since 21 May 2022, was not complied with,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) on 7 November 2023, in response to the order, the Treasurer made a public interest immunity claim on the basis that the documents sought are commercial-in-confidence, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(iii) on 5 September 2024, documents that were the subject of the order were provided following a freedom of information (FOI) request, Treasury reference no. 3331, after the Information Commissioner found against the Treasurer in an appeal and required the documents be disclosed; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) requires the Minister representing the Treasurer to attend the Senate on Wednesday, 11 September 2024, at the conclusion of consideration of private senators' bills and immediately prior to government business being called on, to provide an explanation, of no more than 5 minutes, of the failure to comply with the order, the misuse of a public interest immunity claim, and how documents obtained under FOI could not be obtained by the Senate, and that:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) any senator may move to take note of the explanation, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) any such motion may be debated for no longer than 60 minutes, shall have precedence over all business until determined, and senators may speak to the motion for not more than 5 minutes each.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:00</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CHISHOLM</name>
    <name.id>39801</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a short statement.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Leave is granted for one minute.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CHISHOLM</name>
    <name.id>39801</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The government has a $32 billion plan to build 1.2 million new homes by 2029. Those opposite are only interested in playing political games and getting in the way of genuine action. When an FOI request is received, as required under the legislation, consultation occurs with the party involved, as the government did in the instance with Cbus. Cbus objected to the release of documents it considered to be business information, an available exemption under the FOI Act. Consistent with this, the government made a claim of public interest immunity in response to the Senate order for production of the same documents. This was done in good faith to protect business information and to ensure we can continue to undertake robust and frank stakeholder consultations which are ultimately in the public interest. We want to continue to have frank and candid consultation processes in the future, and that's why we comply with the legislation when it comes to FOIs. We released the relevant documents on 5 September 2024, in line with the information commissioner's decision in the usual way.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that general business notice of motion No. 600, standing in the name of Senator Bragg, be agreed to.</para>
<para> </para>
<para> </para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [16:06]<br />(The President—Senator Lines)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>42</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                  <name>Antic, A.</name>
                  <name>Askew, W. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Babet, R.</name>
                  <name>Bragg, A. J.</name>
                  <name>Brockman, W. E.</name>
                  <name>Cadell, R.</name>
                  <name>Canavan, M. J.</name>
                  <name>Chandler, C.</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                  <name>Cox, D.</name>
                  <name>Davey, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, D. J.</name>
                  <name>Hanson, P. L.</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                  <name>Henderson, S. M.</name>
                  <name>Hodgins-May, S.</name>
                  <name>Hughes, H. A.</name>
                  <name>Hume, J.</name>
                  <name>Kovacic, M.</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J.</name>
                  <name>Liddle, K. J.</name>
                  <name>McDonald, S. E.</name>
                  <name>McKim, N. J.</name>
                  <name>McLachlan, A. L.</name>
                  <name>Nampijinpa Price, J. S.</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, M. A.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                  <name>Rennick, G.</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M. I.</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A.</name>
                  <name>Scarr, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Sharma, D. N.</name>
                  <name>Shoebridge, D.</name>
                  <name>Smith, D. A.</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Tyrrell, T. M.</name>
                  <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, P. S.</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>18</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A.</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                  <name>Darmanin, L.</name>
                  <name>Ghosh, V.</name>
                  <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                  <name>Grogan, K.</name>
                  <name>Lines, S.</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M.</name>
                  <name>Polley, H.</name>
                  <name>Pratt, L. C.</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                  <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                  <name>Stewart, J. N. A.</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, A. E. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names />
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division></subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>REGULATIONS AND DETERMINATIONS</title>
        <page.no>3676</page.no>
        <type>REGULATIONS AND DETERMINATIONS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Tax Agent Services (Code of Professional Conduct) Determination 2024</title>
          <page.no>3676</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Disallowance</title>
            <page.no>3676</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:08</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DEAN SMITH</name>
    <name.id>241710</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Tax Agent Services (Code of Professional Conduct) Determination 2024, made under the <inline font-style="italic">Tax Agent Services Act 2009</inline>, be disallowed [F2024L00849].</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:09</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CHISHOLM</name>
    <name.id>39801</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a short statement.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Leave is granted for one minute.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CHISHOLM</name>
    <name.id>39801</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The government would like to thank the tax industry bodies for their constructive engagement with us on this matter. The government have committed to industry bodies to making further changes to the tax determination, on which we intend to publicly consult and which we intend to finalise by early October. This includes outlining the obligations within section 15 of the instrument of the Accounting Professional and Ethical Standards Board code of ethics. This voluntary code currently applies to only some tax agents. The change will expand it to all tax agents in a consistent way.</para>
<para>The government has also committed to reduce the number of items in the disclosure obligations to section 45 to remove duplicative items that are already covered in other areas of law. Industry bodies have indicated support for these changes.</para>
<para>I seek the opposition's commitment to delay this motion to provide industry with time to consider these amendments as part of public consultation. Absent that commitment, the government will be opposing this disallowance motion.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:10</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DAVID POCOCK</name>
    <name.id>256136</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a one-minute statement.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DAVID POCOCK</name>
    <name.id>256136</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Smith for lodging this disallowance, and I share the concerns that industry reps have raised around the poor process and consultation. However, I also recognise that there has recently been good-faith engagement from the government, and they've come to an agreement with industry bodies to work through the remaining outstanding issues. I believe the government should have the opportunity to deliver on this. Should they not, I'd be very happy to support a disallowance, but at this stage I won't be.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:11</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DEAN SMITH</name>
    <name.id>241710</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a short statement.</para>
<para>Leave not granted.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:11</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BARBARA POCOCK</name>
    <name.id>BFQ</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a short statement.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Leave is granted for one minute.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BARBARA POCOCK</name>
    <name.id>BFQ</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I wish to put on notice the pressing need for action to hold tax agents to account in light of all the evidence this chamber has heard in relation to PwC and the need to act. We've had a lot of outrage in this chamber about what our nation has seen in corrupt behaviour, and what we need is action into the future, not deferral. We need timely action that allows us to hold the small proportion of tax agents who behave improperly to account. That's the action I look forward to seeing this Senate realise before long.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:12</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DEAN SMITH</name>
    <name.id>241710</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek, for a second time, leave to make a statement.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Leave is not granted. And I do invite senators who have pressing things to say to join the adjournment debate tonight, at which point I'm sure the whips will not welcome it. But that is the appropriate time.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DEAN SMITH</name>
    <name.id>241710</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>But no-one listens to the adjournment debate!</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Well, you can always put it on your socials. What a shame! I listen. The question is that business of the Senate motion No. 1 standing in the name of Senator Dean Smith be agreed to.</para>
<para> </para>
<para> </para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [16:17]<br />(The President—Senator Lines)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>31</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Antic, A.</name>
                  <name>Askew, W.</name>
                  <name>Babet, R.</name>
                  <name>Bragg, A. J.</name>
                  <name>Brockman, W. E.</name>
                  <name>Cadell, R.</name>
                  <name>Canavan, M. J.</name>
                  <name>Chandler, C.</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                  <name>Davey, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, D. J.</name>
                  <name>Hanson, P. L.</name>
                  <name>Henderson, S. M.</name>
                  <name>Hughes, H. A.</name>
                  <name>Hume, J.</name>
                  <name>Kovacic, M.</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J.</name>
                  <name>Liddle, K. J.</name>
                  <name>McDonald, S. E.</name>
                  <name>McLachlan, A. L.</name>
                  <name>Nampijinpa Price, J. S.</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, M. A. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Payman, F.</name>
                  <name>Rennick, G.</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M. I.</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A.</name>
                  <name>Sharma, D. N.</name>
                  <name>Smith, D. A.</name>
                  <name>Tyrrell, T. M.</name>
                  <name>Van, D. A.</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>31</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                  <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A.</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                  <name>Cox, D.</name>
                  <name>Darmanin, L.</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                  <name>Ghosh, V.</name>
                  <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                  <name>Grogan, K.</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                  <name>Hodgins-May, S.</name>
                  <name>Lines, S.</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M.</name>
                  <name>McKim, N. J.</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                  <name>Polley, H.</name>
                  <name>Pratt, L. C.</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                  <name>Shoebridge, D.</name>
                  <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                  <name>Stewart, J. N. A.</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, A. E. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                  <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, P. S.</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names />
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived. </p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division></subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Heritage Protection (Kings Plains) Declaration 2024</title>
          <page.no>3677</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Disallowance</title>
            <page.no>3677</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:19</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I remind senators that yesterday evening two votes were deferred as listed at item 12 on today's order of business. I understand it suits the convenience of the Senate to hold those votes now. I will deal first with the motion moved by Senator Duniam concerning the proposed disallowance of the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Heritage Protection (Kings Plains) Declaration 2024. The question is that the motion moved by Senator Duniam be agreed to.</para>
<para> </para>
<para> </para>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [16:20]<br />(The President—Senator Lines)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>29</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Antic, A.</name>
                  <name>Askew, W.</name>
                  <name>Babet, R.</name>
                  <name>Bragg, A. J.</name>
                  <name>Brockman, W. E.</name>
                  <name>Cadell, R.</name>
                  <name>Canavan, M. J.</name>
                  <name>Chandler, C.</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                  <name>Davey, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, D. J.</name>
                  <name>Hanson, P. L.</name>
                  <name>Henderson, S. M.</name>
                  <name>Hughes, H. A.</name>
                  <name>Hume, J.</name>
                  <name>Kovacic, M.</name>
                  <name>Liddle, K. J.</name>
                  <name>McDonald, S. E.</name>
                  <name>McLachlan, A. L.</name>
                  <name>Nampijinpa Price, J. S.</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, M. A. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Rennick, G.</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M. I.</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A.</name>
                  <name>Sharma, D. N.</name>
                  <name>Smith, D. A.</name>
                  <name>Tyrrell, T. M.</name>
                  <name>Van, D. A.</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>31</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                  <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A.</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                  <name>Cox, D.</name>
                  <name>Darmanin, L.</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                  <name>Ghosh, V.</name>
                  <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                  <name>Grogan, K.</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                  <name>Hodgins-May, S.</name>
                  <name>Lines, S.</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M.</name>
                  <name>McKim, N. J.</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                  <name>Polley, H.</name>
                  <name>Pratt, L. C.</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                  <name>Shoebridge, D.</name>
                  <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                  <name>Stewart, J. N. A.</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, A. E. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                  <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, P. S.</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names />
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division></subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>3678</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport References Committee</title>
          <page.no>3678</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Reference</title>
            <page.no>3678</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:22</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I will now deal with the deferred vote relating to a reference to the Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport References Committee proposed by Senator McKenzie and the amendment moved by Senator Cash. The question is that the amendment moved by Senator Cash be agreed to.</para>
<para> </para>
<para> </para>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [16:24]<br />(The President—Senator Lines)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>30</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Antic, A.</name>
                  <name>Askew, W.</name>
                  <name>Babet, R.</name>
                  <name>Bragg, A. J.</name>
                  <name>Brockman, W. E.</name>
                  <name>Cadell, R.</name>
                  <name>Canavan, M. J.</name>
                  <name>Chandler, C.</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                  <name>Davey, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, D. J.</name>
                  <name>Hanson, P. L.</name>
                  <name>Henderson, S. M.</name>
                  <name>Hughes, H. A.</name>
                  <name>Hume, J.</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J.</name>
                  <name>Liddle, K. J.</name>
                  <name>McDonald, S. E.</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B.</name>
                  <name>McLachlan, A. L.</name>
                  <name>Nampijinpa Price, J. S.</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, M. A. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                  <name>Rennick, G.</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M. I.</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A.</name>
                  <name>Sharma, D. N.</name>
                  <name>Smith, D. A.</name>
                  <name>Van, D. A.</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>32</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                  <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A.</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                  <name>Cox, D.</name>
                  <name>Darmanin, L.</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                  <name>Ghosh, V.</name>
                  <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                  <name>Grogan, K.</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                  <name>Hodgins-May, S.</name>
                  <name>Lines, S.</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M.</name>
                  <name>McKim, N. J.</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Payman, F.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                  <name>Polley, H.</name>
                  <name>Pratt, L. C.</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                  <name>Shoebridge, D.</name>
                  <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                  <name>Stewart, J. N. A.</name>
                  <name>Tyrrell, T. M.</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, A. E. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                  <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, P. S.</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names />
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:27</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The question now is that the motion as moved by Senator McKenzie be agreed to.</para>
<para> </para>
<para> </para>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [16:27]<br />(The President—Senator Lines)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>30</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Antic, A.</name>
                  <name>Askew, W.</name>
                  <name>Babet, R.</name>
                  <name>Bragg, A. J.</name>
                  <name>Brockman, W. E.</name>
                  <name>Cadell, R.</name>
                  <name>Canavan, M. J.</name>
                  <name>Chandler, C.</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                  <name>Davey, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, D. J.</name>
                  <name>Hanson, P. L.</name>
                  <name>Henderson, S. M.</name>
                  <name>Hughes, H. A.</name>
                  <name>Hume, J.</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J.</name>
                  <name>Liddle, K. J.</name>
                  <name>McDonald, S. E.</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B.</name>
                  <name>McLachlan, A. L.</name>
                  <name>Nampijinpa Price, J. S.</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, M. A. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                  <name>Rennick, G.</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M. I.</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A.</name>
                  <name>Sharma, D. N.</name>
                  <name>Smith, D. A.</name>
                  <name>Van, D. A.</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>32</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                  <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A.</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                  <name>Cox, D.</name>
                  <name>Darmanin, L.</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                  <name>Ghosh, V.</name>
                  <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                  <name>Grogan, K.</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                  <name>Hodgins-May, S.</name>
                  <name>Lines, S.</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M.</name>
                  <name>McKim, N. J.</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Payman, F.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                  <name>Polley, H.</name>
                  <name>Pratt, L. C.</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                  <name>Shoebridge, D.</name>
                  <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                  <name>Stewart, J. N. A.</name>
                  <name>Tyrrell, T. M.</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, A. E. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                  <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, P. S.</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names />
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division></subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>MATTERS OF URGENCY</title>
        <page.no>3680</page.no>
        <type>MATTERS OF URGENCY</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Agriculture Industry</title>
          <page.no>3680</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:29</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>256063</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I inform the Senate that the President has received the following letter, dated 10 September 2024, from Senator McKenzie:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Pursuant to standing order 75, I give notice that today I propose to move "That, in the opinion of the Senate, the following is a matter of urgency:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The need for the Albanese Labor Government to end its anti-farming agenda, which is damaging Australia's competitive advantages, driving up the cost of doing business for Australian farmers and further increasing the cost of living for all Australians."</para></quote>
<para>Is consideration of the proposal supported?</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">More than the number of senators required by the standing orders having risen in their places—</inline></para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>256063</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>With the concurrence of the Senate, the clerks will now set the clock in line with the informal arrangements made by the whips.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:29</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKENZIE</name>
    <name.id>207825</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That, in the opinion of the Senate, the following is a matter of urgency:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The need for the Albanese Labor Government to end its anti-farming agenda, which is damaging Australia's competitive advantages, driving up the cost of doing business for Australian farmers and further increasing the cost of living for all Australians.</para></quote>
<para>I move this motion in the Australian Senate today because it is today that the Australian farming public—and I see many people in the gallery from Western Australia and beyond—have had enough of a Labor Party that does not care about the future sustainability, prosperity or security of their present business or, indeed, their intergenerational operations.</para>
<para>We have had thousands of farmers from right across this great wide brown land here on the front steps of parliament. Did the Prime Minister bother to come out of this ivory tower onto the front lawns and face the accusers? No. He gave the President of the NFF a bit of a shellacking, and might have used choice words that aren't very parliamentary, but the Prime Minister refused to meet the thousands of people who gathered this morning. The Minister for Agriculture—cooee!—couldn't be found either. Nor did she bother to go over to Western Australia to actually face a state that is on the front line of this government's anti-farming agenda.</para>
<para>The live sheep trade out of Western Australia is a trade that is celebrated, is a key system in primary production in the west and provides culturally appropriate protein to the Middle East. Never mind that it is world leading in animal husbandry and that it underpins thousands of jobs in the west; this Labor government and this Prime Minister were prepared to trade the livelihoods of these Western Australian primary producers for a few cheap seats in Melbourne, Brisbane and Sydney. Dirty deals done dirt cheap, and who pays? The Australian farming family.</para>
<para>It wasn't just those that support the Keep the Sheep campaign. There were irrigators from the Murray-Darling Basin who have seen this government decimate their future by removing the socioeconomic test that was required before a government would remove additional water from these farmers. What's Tanya Plibersek done? She's just said: 'We're taking it anyway. We don't care about the science. We don't care about how healthy the Murray River is. We don't care about how many suicides this will cause in the Murray-Darling Basin. We're taking the water anyway'. Any farmer worth their salt, any of us nine million Australians who don't live in capital cities, knows that if you remove water you remove wealth from these communities.</para>
<para>The cattle industry, the NTCA, was in town. We know that it is sheep first and it is the cattle industry next, and I know my colleague and cattlewoman herself Senator Susie McDonald will have more to say on that later in this debate. This government let their mask slip when we had the Rural and Regional Women's Award in this very building a couple of weeks ago. The Prime Minister almost choked on his beautiful Australian beef! He wanted to swallow his words instead of swallowing that fabulous product when he let it slip that he is coming for the live cattle trade next. The NTCA were also out there. But it is not just our primary producers who are under attack by this government; it's our trucking industries and the whole supply chain that underpins them and our regional communities. This government doesn't care. They think we're out of sight, out of mind, and today, we made our voice heard.</para>
<para>I was very proud, as a National Party leader in this Senate chamber and as a rural and regional woman myself, to stand next to the National Party's candidate for the new seat of Bullwinkel in the west, Mia Davies, a woman who comes from primary production stock. She's been the Leader of the Opposition in Western Australia. She's experienced, passionate and serious about standing up for the west here in this place. It's about time Western Australians had someone in the House of Representatives that is prepared to back them in a way that Prime Minister Albanese and his government haven't.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:35</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CHISHOLM</name>
    <name.id>39801</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>It's a real pleasure for me to speak and to dispel the myths that the opposition have been purporting when it comes to this motion. I welcome the opportunity to oppose it today.</para>
<para>I was recently appointed the Assistant Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, and I have very much enjoyed the engagement I've had from industry in the month or so that I've been in that portfolio. They are very welcoming, very knowledgeable and very happy to share their thoughts and knowledge with me, which I appreciate. I acknowledge that there is a lot to learn in this space; it is such a big portfolio area, and I am very grateful for the engagement I've had with industry. My door is always open, and I am always happy to have a discussion with them.</para>
<para>One of the first opportunities I had was to speak at the National Farmers Federation Leaders Summit in Canberra a number of weeks ago. That was something I really enjoyed and valued. I was very clear, when I outlined the agenda the government is pursuing when it comes to agriculture, fisheries and forestry, that we know we're not going to agree on every issue, but we are committed to working and finding common ground and ensuring that we can advance the industry. That's exactly what we have been doing since we came to government. We've delivered on our election promises but we've also been focused on the future, because we understand not only how important this area is to the country but also the export potential that avails itself in this portfolio.</para>
<para>It's interesting that Senator McKenzie didn't talk about the record of the previous government, when they were in power, and what we inherited, but that has been a big focus of this government, in terms of correcting what we saw from the previous 10 years of those opposite. What did we actually see when we came to government? We saw a $100 million black hole in the biosecurity budget. There's one thing that unites the agriculture sector: the concerns they have about biosecurity. That's something we had to go about fixing in the budget, which we have done.</para>
<para>We saw a decade of climate denial and no support to help the agriculture industry meet their own climate targets. This is something that industry see as an opportunity. Previously, they didn't have a government that was committed to working with them. They have that now in this current government, and we see tremendous opportunities. We know about the damage those opposite did to the APVMA and the dysfunctional mess they left it in for so many years. That has taken so much time to fix, and it is now on the right path. Also, there are the trade relationships that are so important in this sector that they neglected and eroded over 10 years of time. We've been getting on with the job of fixing these challenges, which the opposition couldn't be bothered to do or had failed to do. We are delivering for Australian farmers and producers, and we are committed to a robust, sustainable agricultural industry that continues to thrive in Australia, because we understand how important it is for so many parts of this country.</para>
<para>We've been strengthening Australia's biosecurity system, ensuring long-term sustainable funding with an investment of over $1 billion. We know the threats will continue; that's why it is important that we have a robust biosecurity system in place that can do what is needed to keep Australia free. We've delivered $11.1 million to uplift northern Australia's ability to detect, prepare for and respond to exotic plant, animal and aquatic pests and diseases, through funding the implementation of the Northern Australia Biosecurity Strategy.</para>
<para>We've boosted the agriculture workforce, securing fee-free TAFE and vocational education and training places for courses right across Australia. So far we've seen over 14,000 enrolments in agriculture courses. We've also worked with industry to adjust program settings for the Pacific Australia Labour Mobility scheme to continue the transition period for minimum-hour settings until 1 July next year. The May budget included $1.9 million over three years to provide targeted grants for industry led projects, with benefits across the sector. We'll continue to invest in programs that support the employment and retention of our best people.</para>
<para>We're opening up new trade opportunities for our sector to grow and diversify overseas markets. In 2023-24, Australia exported over 70 per cent of its agriculture, fisheries and forestry production to 169 markets globally—the most diversified trade has ever been. Restoration of market access for several agriculture and forestry products contributed a record $17.4 billion in exports to China last year alone. We've delivered over $3 billion in extra funding for agriculture since taking office and over $500 million to the National Reconstruction Fund. We understand how important this sector is to the economy and to Australians. That's why we will continue to support it, despite the rhetoric of those opposite.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:40</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WHISH-WILSON</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>It's always good to see farmers in Canberra. Good on those farmers who travelled from around the country to exercise their right to protest and have their voices heard in this place. The Greens don't agree with everything they were here protesting on today, especially the ban on live sheep export—that's something we have supported—but we do support farmers in other areas. And, I've got to say, it's good to see the Nationals today standing with farmers. In the 13 years I've been in this place, I've watched them abandon the farming community and join forces with the coalmining industry and the resources industry. That's where their heart has been in the past decade.</para>
<para>What is ironic about that is that the biggest threat facing farmers in this country and indeed all around the world—the same for our supply chains in this country—is climate change. And the Nationals, more than anyone in this place, in the past decade have undermined climate action—in this building, decisions we've made on acting on climate. My state of Tasmania recently had another record flooding event—last week. My mates who have farms lost a significant number of cattle, sheep and trees, and this is happening right around the country. Extreme weather is a function of our changing climate, which is caused by rising emissions, which is caused primarily by the burning of fossil fuel and the approval of fossil fuel projects, which this government continues to do, and the previous government championed it while they were in this place. And, if we look at Australia's winter, this was the third winter in a row where we've set records—42 degrees only a couple of weeks ago, a new record, and temperatures across the heartland of over 16 degrees Celsius above their long-term averages. We're continuing to see weather records broken everywhere.</para>
<para>And we talk about concerns over water in the Murray-Darling Basin. We talk about biosecurity risks being presented to Tasmanian farmers and to farmers all around this country. And it's climate change. So, how ironic that Senator McKenzie comes in here today to put up a motion talking about how this government is somehow making life worse for farmers and has an agenda to put them out of business, when what is actually putting them out of business are droughts and famine and pestilence and everything that goes with what we know is climate change.</para>
<para>I just wanted to make it really clear today that if you're an Australian farmer you need to be rightly concerned about the government not acting fast enough. And I'm pleased that there are thousands of farmers around this country who have joined Farmers for Climate Action and are calling, in a bipartisan and tripartisan way, for more action on the climate from politicians in this place. That's what I think I would like to hear farmers calling for. That's what we need.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:43</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'SULLIVAN</name>
    <name.id>283585</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I want to commend Senator McKenzie for bringing this matter of public importance before the Senate today for us to consider—the need for the Albanese government to end its anti-farming agenda, which is damaging Australia's competitive advantages, driving up the cost of doing business for Australian farmers and further increasing the cost of living for all Australians.</para>
<para>I was very proud today to stand out the front of this building with farmers who have come from all over the country—indeed, quite a number of them from Western Australia, who have made an enormous effort to be here. Some of them drove their trucks over and spent the number of days it takes to drive across the continent, which is something to be commended and supported. But, unfortunately, we did not see any of those opposite—certainly not the Prime Minister—front up at that rally, which is a real shame.</para>
<para>As a Western Australian, I am seeing firsthand the impact that the closing down of this important trade is having on the livelihoods of generations of families who have been farming in Western Australia, who have seen this trade occur, which has provided a livelihood for them and their families, and it's being decimated. We are already seeing the impact of this. Even though the ban doesn't come into place for several years, we are already seeing the impact on the flock in Western Australia. It is absolutely shameful that this government is just pandering to the interests of those in the inner-city areas. We saw that, to get preference votes in the by-election in Dunkley, they traded off votes with the Animal Justice Party or whatever party it was—those activists—for a cynical result. It was a cynical transaction that ultimately has cost the livelihoods of farmers in Western Australia. It is absolutely shameful.</para>
<para>Do you know what else is shameful? During question time, we had interjections from the former minister for agriculture somehow belittling the size of the crowd out there. It doesn't matter whether there were just two people, several hundred people or thousands of people out the front; what matters is that people came here today to have their voices heard. There was a very large crowd. I couldn't count the number that were there. I wasn't there long enough to do a full headcount, but there were—I don't know—maybe a thousand or more. Those who were there longer would know and would have done that count. But the fact that it was raised in this place—even by Senator McCarthy, who raised it and said, 'Oh, there were only 400 people,' as if that were something to be snickered at—just shows the attitude of those opposite and their disdain towards this industry and the producers in this country that have a proud tradition.</para>
<para>These farmers care more about their animals than anyone else—more than any activist that might want to front up to their farms would ever do. They care deeply about them. I've been to the feedlot; I've been on the ship, and I've seen the quality of the efforts that have been taken by these producers and exporters. I've witnessed firsthand their care and the attention that is paid. They have done everything that the regulator and the government have called on them to do, and more. To now have in their face this decision by this government and by this parliament, who have turned their backs on Western Australia, is an absolute shame.</para>
<para>Before the last election, there were placards and billboards put up in polling booths and at schools across the country on election day saying, 'Put WA first; vote Labor.' What a mockery those signs are. What a mockery the government are even to their own words, because they are not standing up for WA. They are not being true to their convictions in Western Australia. They are pandering to those over here on the east coast who are not considering the livelihoods, the proud tradition and the care that has been taken on these properties and farms. It is absolutely shameful.</para>
<para>I am proud as a Western Australian to have stood today on that stage in front of that audience of those who made the effort to be here and make their voices heard. Your voices have been heard today, but unfortunately those on the other side are not listening, and the only way to remedy this is to see a coalition government returned so that we can reverse this shameful legislation.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:48</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator AYRES</name>
    <name.id>16913</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Rallies are good things. I know; I've organised a few of them in my time. They are good things. It's a good thing in our democracy to have people assemble. We have freedom of assembly in this country. On our side of the chamber, it's freedom of assembly for everyone. On that side of the chamber, it's freedom of assembly when it suits them. They don't like freedom of assembly if workers get together. They send them threatening letters. They are made angry by the idea of ordinary people getting together, but, in this case, they are for it. Maybe it'll be a learning experience for them.</para>
<para>As I said, I've organised a few rallies in my time, and I do understand that there are sharp differences of views about the government's decision in relation to live sheep exports. I absolutely respect the right of Australians who are affected directly by this or have a view about this to put a view to government. That's why, indeed, the government has played its part here. There have been dozens of meetings with Western Australian farmers about these questions. There has been a compensation package that has been developed by the government. There is an ambition there to work with the agriculture sector in Western Australia to develop onshore processing options at scale.</para>
<para>The truth is that nobody could do more damage to the live sheep export trade than was done by the previous coalition government. There were billions of dollars worth of lost trade as that industry fell off a cliff on their watch. Now they're there in the rally, but they did more damage to Western Australian agriculture than is contemplated in what is an orderly phase-out of this sector that has been brought to not one election but two elections.</para>
<para>This is a government that does what it says it is going to do. What I do object to are the dishonest claims that are made by the coalition about agricultural policy. The first thing they should do in terms of agricultural policy is apologise for a decade of neglect. If they were fair dinkum about it, they would apologise for a decade of neglect. Their slogan, developed in their focus groups, is interesting. 'Keep the sheep' is the slogan. At no point does it say, 'Save the live export trade'; it says, 'Keep the sheep,' as if we're going to take them into people's backyards and pat them on their heads. It is the most dishonest campaign slogan.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'Sullivan</name>
    <name.id>283585</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>It's their campaign. It's the farmers' campaign.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator AYRES</name>
    <name.id>16913</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>It was developed by your team. That's what's going on.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'Sullivan</name>
    <name.id>283585</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Why don't you talk to them? They're up in the gallery—</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator AYRES</name>
    <name.id>16913</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Now, let me come to these questions. Senator O'Sullivan is very upset about claims that are made about the size of the rally. There's nothing wrong with a rally of a few hundred people out the front of Parliament House. There's nothing wrong with that. What is wrong is the Liberal and National parties making inflated claims of thousands of people out the front, which is the immediate default. And I know—as I say, I've organised a few rallies in my time—you always make claims tripling the number of people who are there because it suits your purposes. But the problem is that it's not right, and those claims are being made by this crowd, even though they know they're not right. No wonder they've got such trouble in terms of fiscal policy; they can't count!</para>
<para>It is a good thing that people flew or drove here from Western Australia. It is a long flight—5½ hours—which I do have to say is longer than Senator McKenzie's divestiture policy on the airline industry lasted. It lasted 5½ hours; that's the truth. This show is such a rabble. There are dishonest claims about agriculture. There are red-hot opinion pieces in the <inline font-style="italic">Australian Financial Review</inline> which last less time than a flight from Sydney to Perth. This is another rabble making dishonest claims, leading the farming community up a cul-de-sac with claims that can't be sustained.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:53</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ROBERTS</name>
    <name.id>266524</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>How would One Nation restore Australian farming—explained in the 60 seconds the Nationals have allocated me? It's easy: end the net zero madness. Net zero is a policy of the Liberals, the Nationals, the Labor Party, the Greens and the teals, each committed to destroying farming through a death of a thousand regulatory cuts, strangling farmers with restrictions on water use, on-farm chemicals and fertilisers and even their soil. This is strangling the life out of rural Australia in the name of reducing carbon dioxide, which fertilises the very food these net zero ideologues eat.</para>
<para>Net zero really means net zero food, net zero clothes, net zero freedom and net zero travel. We've been told by the UN and the World Economic Forum that food will be produced in near-urban intensive food-manufacturing facilities producing cultured laboratory meat, forced greens with no cell structure and bug protein. Allow Australian farmers to once again feed and clothe the world. It's time to end government by ideology.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:54</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BABET</name>
    <name.id>300706</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I stand with our farmers. Farmers are the backbone of our nation. If farmers don't farm, citizens don't eat. That's why the war being waged on farmers by our government must end. Enough of ordering them to reduce emissions, enough of telling them what they can and cannot export and how, and enough of covering prime agricultural land with panels, poles, wires and turbines. It's madness. If you want to eat bugs, then keep going, like Klaus Schwab from the World Economic Forum wants you to do. If you like real food, though, and if you value a healthy life, support the farmers. Who would you rather trust: a hardworking farming family who are farming the land and producing food for our dinner plates or inner-city, soy-latte-sipping, woke activists who worry that cow farts are causing sea levels to rise as they preen their man buns?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:55</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McDONALD</name>
    <name.id>123072</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>It's hard to beat that that final line! I want to thank Senator McKenzie for bringing on this matter of urgency so that we can have a debate about farming even in this short time in the Senate. This goes to far more than what happens at parliament and what happens in Canberra. This is about the men and women right across Australia who have incredible challenges, and the part that really worries me about Labor is how few of them understand how hard it is to farm. They don't understand that you are battling international commodity prices, a duopoly of supermarket buyers, variable seasons, skyrocketing costs of production, a shortage of workforce and, at the same time, your own government, which is putting more and more restrictions on how you operate. Farmers are spending more time in the office and less time on the farm because they grow food. I'm not sure if you're aware that 99 per cent of the population—most of us—rely on one per cent of the population to grow our food and fibre, and that one per cent of our population is saying, 'We have had enough.' Their children are saying, 'This is not a career that I want to choose anymore because of what Labor is doing.'</para>
<para>I have got a long list of issues relating to what Labor have done just in the last 2½ years. You really can't believe it when you look at it. There is the introduction of the Climate Change Authority and their out-of-control direction that is not being pulled into line by Labor, who say, 'Oh, it's an independent agency.' There is the Global Methane Pledge. There are water buybacks. They removed all of the funding for northern Australian water projects, took that money and bought water out of the Murray-Darling, resulting in less food opportunity in the north and less food opportunity in the south. They're bringing in scope 3 emissions reporting from 1 January next year. Superannuation changes are forcing farmers to pay for unrealised gains on their properties in super funds. They've removed gillnet fishing in Far North Queensland. They're refusing to settle the live export dispute. These very same cabinet ministers who shut down the cattle live export industry are now at the table shutting down live sheep exports out of Western Australia—and this includes cattle, by the way. Nobody talks about that part, but cattle are also affected by that. The salmon-farming industry in Tasmania is bowing under pressure and is about to break.</para>
<para>We should care that our farmers are labouring under the costs of Labor. We should care that their ability to grow food and fibre is being restricted. We should care that policies are being run by the Greens in inner-city places with this fanciful idea that we can have greenhouses and that manufactured food will feed billions of people around the world. We should care about that and say, 'Enough!' I say that because what the NFF has done is led a group of farmers from across Australia who have said: 'Please let us do what we do best. Let us manage our land. Let us farm. Let us grow food for you. Let us not be restricted by the EU's restrictions on deforestation—policies that do not apply in the Australian context. Please stop the World Heritage listings of our important food manufacturing places. Please let us make our own decisions and not be driven by overseas government and regulations.' These are the sorts of things that farmers talk to me about when they are complaining about how hard it is to be compliant and to grow food and fibre—all of the things that we don't have to consider. In fact, our biggest problem is eating too much food. We never ever stop to think about how hard it is to grow it. This government urgently needs to stop and understand the cumulative effects of so many separate and disparate decisions that are breaking the will of farmers and ensuring that young people are saying it is too hard.</para>
<para>I want to finish on this point. The thing that keeps the people in my part of the world, northern Australia, awake is when they see a dirty deal done with the Greens, in a Victorian by-election, to shut down their industry. They know that a Labor minority government with the Greens will shut down the cattle live export industry in northern Australia in a heartbeat. They won't even pause to examine the dead bodies.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the urgency motion moved by Senator McKenzie be agreed to.</para>
<para> </para>
<para> </para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
          <division.header>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [17:05]<br />(The President—Senator Lines)</p>
            </body>
          </division.header>
          <division.data>
            <ayes>
              <num.votes>31</num.votes>
              <title>AYES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Antic, A.</name>
                <name>Askew, W.</name>
                <name>Babet, R.</name>
                <name>Bragg, A. J.</name>
                <name>Brockman, W. E.</name>
                <name>Cadell, R.</name>
                <name>Canavan, M. J.</name>
                <name>Cash, M. C.</name>
                <name>Chandler, C.</name>
                <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                <name>Davey, P. M.</name>
                <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                <name>Fawcett, D. J.</name>
                <name>Hanson, P. L.</name>
                <name>Henderson, S. M.</name>
                <name>Hughes, H. A.</name>
                <name>Hume, J.</name>
                <name>Kovacic, M.</name>
                <name>Liddle, K. J.</name>
                <name>McDonald, S. E.</name>
                <name>McGrath, J.</name>
                <name>McKenzie, B.</name>
                <name>Nampijinpa Price, J. S.</name>
                <name>O'Sullivan, M. A. (Teller)</name>
                <name>Rennick, G.</name>
                <name>Reynolds, L. K.</name>
                <name>Roberts, M. I.</name>
                <name>Ruston, A.</name>
                <name>Scarr, P. M.</name>
                <name>Sharma, D. N.</name>
                <name>Smith, D. A.</name>
              </names>
            </ayes>
            <noes>
              <num.votes>33</num.votes>
              <title>NOES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                <name>Bilyk, C. L.</name>
                <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                <name>Chisholm, A.</name>
                <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                <name>Cox, D.</name>
                <name>Darmanin, L.</name>
                <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                <name>Ghosh, V.</name>
                <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                <name>Grogan, K. (Teller)</name>
                <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                <name>Hodgins-May, S.</name>
                <name>Lines, S.</name>
                <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                <name>McCarthy, M.</name>
                <name>McKim, N. J.</name>
                <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                <name>Polley, H.</name>
                <name>Pratt, L. C.</name>
                <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                <name>Shoebridge, D.</name>
                <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                <name>Stewart, J. N. A.</name>
                <name>Tyrrell, T. M.</name>
                <name>Urquhart, A. E.</name>
                <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                <name>Whish-Wilson, P. S.</name>
              </names>
            </noes>
            <pairs>
              <num.votes>0</num.votes>
              <title>PAIRS</title>
              <names />
            </pairs>
          </division.data>
          <division.result>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
            </body>
          </division.result>
        </division></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>NOTICES</title>
        <page.no>3686</page.no>
        <type>NOTICES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Presentation</title>
          <page.no>3686</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>MATTERS OF PUBLIC IMPORTANCE</title>
        <page.no>3686</page.no>
        <type>MATTERS OF PUBLIC IMPORTANCE</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Literacy and Numeracy</title>
          <page.no>3686</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:07</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>281603</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>A letter has been received from Senator Tyrrell:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Pursuant to standing order 75, I propose that the following matter of public importance be submitted to the Senate for discussion:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">With Australia in the grip of a cost of living crisis, now is the time to focus on providing good numeracy and literacy education so our children are equipped to make fiscally responsible decisions.</para></quote>
<para>Is consideration of the proposal supported?</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">More than the number of senators required by the standing orders having risen in their places—</inline></para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>281603</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>With the concurrence of the Senate, the clerks will set the clock in line with the informal arrangements made by the whips.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:08</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator TYRRELL</name>
    <name.id>300639</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>With Australia in the grip of a cost-of-living crisis, now is the time to focus on providing good numeracy and literacy education so our children are equipped to make fiscally responsible decisions. 'Cost-of-living crisis' is a phrase we hear a lot in this place, and the government says it is working to provide relief for people, but it's also told us to make more fiscally responsible decisions.</para>
<para>If we've struggled to learn the basics of numeracy and literacy, how can we make better decisions about how to budget? Numeracy is not a nice-to-have; numeracy is a must-have. We use numeracy every day to pay for a coffee, to cook, to read the parliamentary sitting calendar and to solve problems. Numeracy is essential. It helps us make sense of life, but so many in Tassie struggle when it comes to numbers. This isn't a new problem. Tasmanian numeracy results have fallen below the national minimum standard for a very long time. The most recent NAPLAN results showed 43 per cent of Tasmanian grade 9 students fell into the bottom two proficiency levels, and that means two out of five students in my state need extra support or development in working towards where they need to be when it comes to their numbers skills.</para>
<para>But, on a recent visit to Burnie High School in the state's north-west, I saw how this community has worked together to improve the numeracy results of their students, and they're winning. The Burnie counts project has helped prepare primary school students as they move to high school, and it's starting to turn around NAPLAN results. It's developed by the Burnie Counts collective to improve numeracy outcomes and has been trialled at five primary schools that feed to Burnie High. Twenty-eight teachers from these schools took on extraprofessional development in the maths curriculum to develop consistent teaching methods and assessment across grades 5 to 8. They also worked with parents to get them more engaged in numeracy lessons. The Burnie Counts students survey shows improvements in students' enjoyment of maths and their confidence when it comes to doing well in maths. When parents were surveyed, the number who said they felt fear around maths halved, and the parents who said they liked maths increased by 13 per cent, showing parents were reinforcing the work done at the five Burnie schools. Teachers raved about the program too. Over the past two years, they have found better ways to teach maths and are more confident in teaching math concepts now.</para>
<para>But let's look at the numbers that go with this, because that's what we're really here to look at. The 2024 NAPLAN results for grade 9 students at Burnie High School showed 89 per cent of students achieved medium to high growth in numeracy, which is significantly above Tasmania's grade 9 average of 75 per cent. To give you a little more insight into how Burnie High School numeracy stats have developed, in 2019 74 per cent of Burnie grade 9 students recorded medium to high growth, and this grew to 77 per cent in 2021, 87 per cent in 2023 and 89 per cent now. The number of students falling into the strong proficiency category has grown from 59 per cent in 2023 to 64.2 per cent this year. This is above the national average of 63.4 per cent. Go Burnie kids!</para>
<para>Besides helping build more confident kids, Burnie Counts has helped the wider community engage with numbers too. You can walk along the Burnie foreshore and join in fun maths activities. Yes, maths apparently can be fun! Check the direction and distance from Burnie to cities around the world with a supersize compass, compare your height against Tasmanian Olympian Ariarne Titmus and other role models or play human-size snakes and ladders. These activities have been rolled out in the community through collaboration between the schools involved with the Burnie Counts Collective, Australian Schools Plus, Burnie City Council and the Tasmanian Community Fund.</para>
<para>Not only is this an example of a community helping itself; it shows how everyone benefits through collaboration. Burnie Counts is a great example of how a well-planned and tested program can help our kids do better at school. This program has already helped hundreds of kids in Burnie, and I feel confident the stats will continue to go up in future testing.</para>
<para>But what about the kids on Tasmania's west coast and all those struggling with numbers in Launceston, Hobart or even your electorates? We need programs like Burnie Counts to be rolled out to communities struggling with numeracy across the country. I call on the government to take kids' education seriously and commit to improving numeracy. I call on this government to commit to improving numeracy in Tasmania and across the country. Without a good understanding of numbers, our kids will miss out on the skills they need to make good money decisions.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:13</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HENDERSON</name>
    <name.id>ZN4</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I'd like to thank Senator Tyrrell for raising the critical issue of improving literacy and numeracy in Australian schools. With one in three students failing NAPLAN, evidence based teaching reforms must be urgently mandated in every classroom. Getting back to basics is critical, and there is no excuse for any more delays. Failure to deliver what works in the classroom—the teaching of phonics, explicit instruction and other proven teaching methods—has damaged a generation of Australians. Consigning students to a lifetime of functional illiteracy or a failure to reach proficiency in numeracy is akin to child neglect.</para>
<para>The Albanese government has failed to deliver these critical national reforms for more than two years, and that is shameful. Education minister Jason Clare has talked a big game. There is a draft agreement, but so far the Albanese government has not delivered the national reforms promised. Instead, the Albanese government has delivered a school funding war, which culminated in state Labor education ministers coming to Canberra and protesting against the Albanese government, with the Victorian education minister, Ben Carroll, declaring that the Liberals, when in government, did a better job funding public schools than this government is doing.</para>
<para>Failure to teach children to read and write and to be numerate fuels disengagement, dysfunction and even youth crime. That was the finding of the National Children's Commissioner, Anne Hollonds, who warned that, unless schools do more to help struggling students, things will go from bad to worse. She told the <inline font-style="italic">Australian</inline>'s education editor, Natasha Bita:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The fact that kids have to wait to be in prison to get one-on-one intensive learning support that they need is just abominable.</para></quote>
<para>In the Northern Territory the situation is particularly dire. The Albanese government conducted a mad scramble to sign a funding agreement in the dying days of the Territory Labor government. But this shows that Australians will not be fooled by any government that has big spending plans and no real plan. The CLP's win in the Northern Territory election shows that Australians want schools funding to deliver real improvements in the classroom, not wasted on all the wrong priorities. I applaud Lia Finocchiaro's determination to get children off the streets and back to school, learning to read and write, which is critical to combating youth crime in the Northern Territory.</para>
<para>I have to say, given that Australia is among the worst in the world for classroom disruption, Minister Clare's failure to include a behaviour curriculum in the draft National School Reform Agreement is a major oversight. This must be remedied. We know that children cannot learn in chaos, in classrooms that are disrupted, or where they are disengaged and not focused on the important work of our teachers. And of course so many teachers are leaving the profession—hardworking, dedicated teachers—because of violence and aggression in many classrooms across this country.</para>
<para>That said, as Senator Tyrrell referenced, there is amazing work happening in so many classrooms and school systems, and we are seeing a real move in our states and territories. More and more teachers are looking at the evidence, are looking at what works: evidence based teaching, explicit instruction. I saw a great example at a Catholic school just outside Hobart which is using the latest evidence based teaching. The children are absolutely thriving. They are children in a low-SES area and are doing incredibly well.</para>
<para>So, while we are seeing some real moves in Tasmania, with a focus from the Tasmanian government on explicit instruction and literacy, and the New South Wales government has rewritten its syllabus, and the Victorian government has made important announcements in relation to moving to the teaching of phonics, we do need to see more action. For instance, it's going to take another three years for the New South Wales syllabus to be properly rolled out. As I said, the coalition is determined that in every classroom we must have evidence based teaching mandated. We must get back to basics. Australian parents deserve no less. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:18</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator STEWART</name>
    <name.id>299352</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>High-quality education is fundamental to unlocking opportunities and to success in life. I feel that the evidence is very well known to support that. The Albanese Labor government is determined to make our education system better and fairer, no matter how much your family earns or where you come from. We know education opens the doors of opportunity for every Australian, and I want to thank Senator Tyrrell for bringing forward this motion this afternoon and raising this topic.</para>
<para>We are committed to strengthening our education system to ensure that all students are prepared for the modern world by ensuring that every student has the skills they need. Our littlest deserve no less. I know Victorians are doing it tough right now. The Albanese Labor government's primary focus is on easing the cost-of-living pressures facing Australians, at the same time as fighting inflation in our economy. From 1 July we have delivered: a tax cut for every Australian taxpayer, not just some; $300 energy bill relief for every Australian household and $325 for small businesses; a freeze on the cost of PBS medicines for every Australian; a third consecutive pay rise for 2.6 million workers; and more funding to build more homes in every part of the country. We're also delivering cheaper child care, fee-free TAFE and the biggest investment ever in expanding bulk-billing. We're planning for the long term while helping Australians right now, working to bring down inflation and planning a future made in Australia. We know there's more to do, and we'll continue every day to deliver for every Australian.</para>
<para>Those on the other side have opposed every single one of these measures. They've said they will cut $315 billion from the budget, and we know that the cost-of-living measures that we put in place, every single one of them, are under threat from those opposite. They left us with $3 trillion of debt and nothing to show for it. They left us with debt and deficits, and now they want to create more chaos. I guess the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. It breaks my heart to think about the impact of 10 years of a coalition government on students, schools, teachers and families. They ripped more than $20 billion out of public schools across the country—$20 billion. It was absolutely heartbreaking for our kids, for our families and for our teachers. What this meant in a practical sense was that attendance rates declined, high-school completion rates declined, teacher shortages grew and the gap between the rich and poor got bigger.</para>
<para>Through the Better and Fairer Schools Agreement, the Albanese Labor government has put $16 billion on the table to ensure students and young people are equipped with the skills required to make responsible decisions in all aspects of their lives. This will be the biggest increase in Australian government funding for public schools ever delivered. The Better and Fairer Schools Agreement ties funding to reforms to help lift student outcomes, improving numeracy and literacy education in our schools. It's great to see that Western Australia and the Northern Territory have signed up to the Better and Fairer Schools Agreement to fund these important reforms. We know that a good, solid education can set you up for life. Let's work together to give our young people the best start in life.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:22</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ALLMAN-PAYNE</name>
    <name.id>298839</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I want to say thank you very much to Senator Tyrrell for bringing on this motion. I know that Senator Tyrrell values education and takes a keen interest in this area, and I appreciate the advocacy that she does on behalf of our young people both in Tasmania and across the country. Furthermore, this motion deals with two issues that I care deeply about—that is, how we alleviate poverty and help people who are in a cost-of-living crisis, and primary and secondary education. I agree wholeheartedly with Senator Tyrrell that we are in a cost-of-living crisis, but I would go one step further and say that the cost-of-living crisis is actually impacting our ability to provide a quality education for our young people and to improve their literacy and numeracy, and it's doing that in two ways.</para>
<para>The first way is the impact that the cost-of-living crisis is having on our school communities. At the moment we have young people coming to our public schools who are housing insecure—and, let's be real, the majority of young people who are either in housing stress or experiencing other forms of poverty and insecurity are, by and large, attending our public schools. So we have young people coming to our public schools who are housing insecure. That impacts their ability to learn. I've taught senior students who were couch surfing. It's really hard to get your assignments done if you don't know where you're going to be sleeping that night.</para>
<para>Yet the government could take steps to tackle that. They could freeze rents and they could put a cap on rents, and that would help more people into secure housing. They could also increase the build of public, affordable, good-quality housing. The government used to build one in four homes. We don't do that anymore. That would be a concrete and substantive way that we could make a meaningful difference to the lives of the families and young people that form our public school communities that would enable students to engage in their learning and to do better in their literacy and numeracy.</para>
<para>We could make supermarket price gouging illegal. I'm certain there won't be a public-school teacher in the country who didn't have a young person in their classroom today who was hungry—who either came to school without having breakfast or didn't bring lunch or had neither. I remember talking to a young person in the playground one day. They were walking down the steps with a can of soft drink in their hand, and I made the comment, 'Is that the best thing that you should be having for lunch?' They told me how grateful they were that someone had given it to them because they hadn't had breakfast or lunch that week, and it was Friday. Try getting a young person to engage in what's going on in a classroom to improve their literacy and numeracy if they're starving. If the government took action to tackle grocery prices, that would make a huge difference for the young people who are coming into our schools.</para>
<para>We could raise the rate of income support. Before we even started the cost-of-living crisis, one in six young people in this country was living in poverty. That was before we saw the massive increases in the cost of living. Those are the young people who come to a classroom who don't have a notebook or a pen and whose parents haven't got a hope of buying them a laptop or an iPad. Once upon a time governments and schools provided the technology and the resources that kids needed to learn, and now we just cost-shift all of that onto families. If you're a family that is struggling with the cost of living and your young person attends a public school and you don't have all those resources provided for you, it's hardly surprising that it's a challenge for you to engage in the curriculum and do the things that you need to do to improve your literacy and numeracy. Let's not forget teachers, who are making up the shortfall in our public schools in terms of the lack of funding and resources and who, on average, spend $800 to $1,000 per year out of their own pockets to resource those schools. Now they're experiencing a cost-of-living crisis, so the people who were filling in the gaps and plugging the holes are less able to do so. The government can take action on both these things. They can tackle the cost of living, and they can fully fund public education. They really need to get on with the job.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:27</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DARMANIN</name>
    <name.id>301128</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise today to speak on the urgency motion on education brought forward by Senator Tyrrell. I'm really glad that Senator Tyrrell has brought this topic before the Senate, because a quality education truly sets our young people up for the best possible start in life. It is absolutely an issue of national importance. Now more than ever, we must focus on equipping the next generation with the skills they need to succeed. Sadly, 10 years of the coalition government were absolutely terrible for students, teachers and families across this country. That's because more than $20 billion was ripped out of our public schools, as already highlighted by Senator Stewart, and no surprises who was sitting on the Expenditure Review Committee at that time—none other than Peter Dutton. The coalition failed our students. Attendance rates declined, high school completion rates fell, teacher shortages grew and the gap between rich and poor widened. In contrast, Labor value education because it opens the doors of opportunity, which is why we are committed to building a better and fairer education system that prepares students for the modern world.</para>
<para>Our children deserve the chance to develop the skills they need to succeed, as Senator Tyrrell outlined, and the building blocks of this are, of course, solid literacy and numeracy foundations. How are we going to do this? The Albanese government's Better and Fairer Schools Agreement is a significant step towards this. It ties funding to important reforms designed to lift student outcomes. Among those reforms are essential measures to improve numeracy and literacy. For instance, we're introducing the year 1 phonics check and an early years numeracy check to identify as early as possible students who need additional support. Senator Tyrrell outlined an example from Burnie where improvements in maths education were evidenced. The Albanese government believe in evidence based teaching, and we are backing that up with targeted, intensive interventions like small group or catch-up tutoring for students who fall behind. These are proven methods that work, and they're aimed at ensuring no student gets left behind.</para>
<para>These are critical reforms to enable our young people, when they go into the world, to make their own way and to be as prepared as they can be to make fiscally responsible decisions, but none of this can happen without our teachers. Teachers are the backbone of our education system, and they do one of the most important jobs in the world. I am reminded of this by my husband, Luke, who, as a teacher at a secondary school in northern Melbourne, has this year been teaching many year 12 students to prepare them for their futures. That's why our reforms also include initiatives to attract and retain teachers, particularly experienced ones, by rewarding their hard work and incentivising them to work in schools that need the most support.</para>
<para>These reforms aren't just about lifting up individual students; they're about lifting up the whole system. We're setting clear targets, like getting more students out of the lowest NAPLAN bands and into the higher levels for numeracy and reading. There are reforms to assist young people in making fiscally responsible decisions—skills that are required for all young people, as Senator Tyrrell has rightly identified. We're focusing on improving school attendance because school is where the learning happens, and we're committed to ensuring the proportion of First Nations students completing year 12 goes up, as part of our dedication to closing the gap. This isn't just talk.</para>
<para>These reforms are backed by real funding commitments. Western Australia and the Northern Territory have already signed up to the Better and Fairer Schools Agreement. In the Northern Territory, this means their schools will go from being the lowest funded in the country to some of the best funded. Over the next five years, their schools will be nearly $1 billion better off. In Western Australia, the agreement means every student will attend a fully funded school by the first day of term in 2026. That's the kind of transformative funding we want to see in every state and territory.</para>
<para>The Australian government have put $16 billion on the table to close the funding gap and drive these reforms, but we can't do this alone. The Commonwealth are ready to contribute, but we need the states and territories to step up and meet us halfway. From day one of being in government, education has been a key priority, and we are taking real action in a way that balances ambition with responsibility.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:32</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ROBERTS</name>
    <name.id>266524</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Education systems are failing our children right across Australia, yet we have fundamental solutions, and I will get to these. Firstly, I want to thank Senator Tyrrell for her MPI today. Secondly, I want to define the problem.</para>
<para>Instead of focusing on the basics, children are forced to learn from the latest list of woke obsessions and distortions. That's no way to develop students and to guide students. Consider the fact that some schools consider Bruce Pascoe's book <inline font-style="italic">Dark Emu</inline> to satisfy the Indigenous history curriculum. Anthropologists have utterly debunked his fiction as cherry-picked nonsense, yet in many schools this is taught as history as if it's undisputed history.</para>
<para>A Sydney primary school has sparked debate after telling pupils to place their hands on the ground and repeat in unison, 'Always was, always will be, Aboriginal land,' before each assembly. That completely contradicts the High Court ruling. At some schools, allowing schoolchildren to identify as animals like cats and even providing litter boxes in classrooms is starting to become accepted. Can you see how this erodes respect for teachers? Boys and girls at a very young age know the difference between men and women and between cats and humans. Agreeing to their fancies is just nonsense. They know that, when a teacher says that girls can be boys, that's ridiculous. It completely undermines respect.</para>
<para>All of this is happening as Australia's education rankings are plummeting, and parents aren't stupid. They know that schools are not doing their job. They really woke up when children came home and started homeschooling and doing lessons over Zoom. That's when the parents realised that schools were not doing their job.</para>
<para>Parents know also that schools are more interested in ideological rubbish than the basics of reading, writing and numeracy. This plagues not only public schools but also some private schools. That's why the rate of homeschooling is exploding. Parents are taking responsibility for their children's education. Between 2019 and 2024, Queensland homeschool registrations surged by 229 per cent. They more than tripled.</para>
<para>While I support homeschooling, parents shouldn't have to take schooling into their own hands to give children what they need. They pay good money in the taxation system, and they should get what they need for their children. The basics of reading, writing and numeracy must be the No. 1 priority.</para>
<para>One Nation supports the concept of charter schools. At the very least, government funding should follow the child, not be doled out on conditional grants that suit some bureaucrat. If parents want to send their children to a particular school or a particular type of school, the funding should go there. It should follow the children. That would return control to principals and parents. This is a hallmark of schools that take responsibility and a hallmark of children who take responsibility in such schools.</para>
<para>We have a federal education department in our country costing $184 million each year in bureaucrat wages alone, and it doesn't operate a single school. Sure, it has some responsibilities for universities, but it doesn't operate a single school, yet it interferes in state school curriculums. So much for our federal systems of education and governance! We need to disband and shut down the federal education department and, while we're at it, the federal health department. We need to restore competitive federalism, because that's a marketplace in governance. States that are better run will see people coming to them.</para>
<para>I also want to call out Maria Montessori, the greatest studier of human behaviour and development. After a lifetime of writing books, reading and meticulous observations, she said, 'The critical years for the formation of both character and intellect are birth to six,' and she got it absolutely right, along with so many other observations that she had. Children go through sensitive periods. They need guides, not teachers. That's how people develop responsibility, and that's the key thing that comes out of Montessori schools. Having been on the board of a Montessori school, a parent at a Montessori school and on the International Montessori Council advisory board, I know she got it right. Get rid of the waste and get back to the basics of the four Rs: reading, writing, arithmetic and responsibility.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>3691</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Domestic, Family and Sexual Violence Commission</title>
          <page.no>3691</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:38</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LIDDLE</name>
    <name.id>300644</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>In respect of the Domestic, Family and Sexual Violence Commission's yearly report on the National Plan to End Violence Against Women and Children, released in August, I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate take note of the document.</para></quote>
<para>We all want to turn the dial on family violence, but the plan is only as good as the paper it is written on if the Commonwealth does its job and, of course, if the states and territories do theirs too. The track record of this government, though, has been go-slow, poor delivery and off the mark on much of this. We want to be, and will be, on a unity ticket when the focus is on the right measure.</para>
<para>For an example, look no further than this: at the 2022 federal election, the now Prime Minister and his team promised 500 new frontline and community workers for the family and domestic violence sector. In February this year, there were just two. In May, on becoming aware of this appalling progress, Minister Gallagher made another commitment which the Labor government again failed to keep. The minister promised to fill 352 positions by 30 June. They delivered just 94—not all of them new positions and not all of them new workers. By the end of August, they made it to just 198—a long way short of the 352 positions promised. Australian women, children and vulnerable people fleeing violence in a sector that wants workers—they really want those workers. At that rate, it's unlikely they'll get 500 before the next election.</para>
<para>Another example of a broken promise is the delayed rollout of the male perpetrator initiatives. Worse still, at the time, Minister Rishworth gave taxpayer money to an organisation that is not even compliant with its regulator—an organisation that's delivering a service for male perpetrators. Taxpayers should accept, as a basic governance principle, that reporting obligations would be met before the making of announcements about new money. Instead, this government is all about the headline. It is therefore fair to ask how much due diligence has been done on recipients of the funding initiatives of the national plan.</para>
<para>How could anyone forget the $400 million for a better, safer Central Australia? Despite that investment, family violence related crime has increased in the Northern Territory by about 20 per cent and youth crime remains a significant issue. On one August night, when I was in Alice Springs, 500 windows were broken. Next morning, youths and adults with rocks in their hands were walking the streets without even attempting to disguise their weapons; I saw it myself. After a grand final match in Alice Springs, violence erupted with hatchets, axe handles, baseball bats and sticks. How is it that, at a major sporting event in Alice Springs, that can occur when, across the nation, we check for those things in bags? We check for alcohol and for weapons. We do that on entry. The answer, Prime Minister Albanese, is not to just send more money; it's about accountability and common sense.</para>
<para>It's a similar story in Ceduna. Last weekend a large fight between women in front of families after a netball match resulted in multiple injuries—all played out in front of children. In a town increasingly reliant on a welfare economy, it's likely that key figures from organisations funded to address violence and disadvantage were among those offenders. Don't ask Minister Rishworth what's going on in Ceduna, though. She will say, 'It's only perceived that there was a problem'—ignoring a town bouncing from crisis to crisis. More reviews and advisory groups won't have as much impact as action. Ignoring the evidence is not the answer.</para>
<para>The national plan and the most recent Rapid Review of Prevention Approaches—that report—is clear about focus on early intervention and prevention. Early intervention and prevention is not about allowing alcohol restrictions to lapse in the NT without a transition plan. Early intervention and prevention is not the removal of the cashless debit card; evidence proves that removal of the card has been catastrophic in those communities that wanted it. Early intervention is not about removing income management for those with gambling, alcohol and other addictions and catching them when they've reached rock bottom. When a child comes into contact with the child protection system, we have failed them. When an individual or a community can't get proper help for addiction, we've failed them. I seek leave to continue my remarks later.</para>
<para>Leave granted; debate adjourned.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Consideration</title>
          <page.no>3691</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>3692</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Community Affairs Legislation Committee</title>
          <page.no>3692</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Additional Information</title>
            <page.no>3692</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:44</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator URQUHART</name>
    <name.id>231199</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>On behalf of the Chair of the Community Affairs Legislation Committee, Senator Marielle Smith, I present additional information received by the committee on its inquiry into the National Disability Insurance Scheme Amendment (Getting the NDIS Back on Track No. 1) Bill 2024.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade References Committee, Legal and Constitutional Affairs Legislation Committee</title>
          <page.no>3692</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Government Response to Report</title>
            <page.no>3692</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:44</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator AYRES</name>
    <name.id>16913</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I present government responses to reports from the following committees: the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade References Committee on its inquiry into the efficacy of the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade due diligence framework and the Legal and Constitutional Affairs Legislation Committee on its inquiry into the provisions of the Attorney-General's Portfolio Miscellaneous Measures Bill 2023. In accordance with the usual practice, I seek leave to incorporate the documents in <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline>.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<para> <inline font-style="italic">The documents read as follows</inline> <inline font-style="italic">—</inline></para>
<quote><para class="block">Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade References Committee — Report on the efficacy of the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade due diligence framework — Government response</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australian Government response to the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade References Committee report:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Efficacy of the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade due diligence framework</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">September 2024</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Introduction</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Government welcomes the opportunity to respond to the report of the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade References Committee ('the Committee') on its inquiry into the: Efficacy of the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade ('DFAT') due diligence framework ('the report').</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government recognises and appreciates the work of the Committee. The report is comprehensive and detailed, with four recommendations. The Government also notes the additional comments from some members of the Committee, including their concerns about recommendations one, two and three.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government has carefully considered the report and does not accept recommendations one and two. The Government notes recommendations three and four.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">DFAT makes extensive use of a range of partners, and in turn their downstream partners, to support implementation of the Australian development program. DFAT's Due Diligence Framework (the Framework) is part of its broader risk management approach, applying a structured and consistent methodology to review a potential partner's ability to deliver services in line with the policy requirements of the Australian development program. The Framework assists financial delegates to satisfy Public Governance, Performance and Accountability Act 2013 requirements to discharge their duties with the degree of care and diligence a reasonable person would exercise.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Framework is one element of the Government's risk management approach to the delivery of official development assistance in the high-risk context of Myanmar. DFAT's approach extends beyond the selection assessment of partners to the close monitoring of program delivery and implementation. DFAT actively monitors programs throughout their life-cycle to confirm that Australian assistance has been delivered as intended and has not been misdirected to the regime.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government remains deeply concerned about the situation in Myanmar, and the ongoing repression and violence by the military regime. The Government remains committed to supporting the people of Myanmar through the provision of sustained development and humanitarian assistance. The Government does not provide direct funding to the Myanmar military regime and takes proactive steps to ensure assistance is neither diverted to the regime nor legitimises or gives credibility to the regime.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response to the recommendations</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 1</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"><inline font-style="italic">The committee recommends that the Australian Government direct the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade to develop and implement an alternative and more flexible due diligence framework to be used when a recipient community is in a defined contested environment. </inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response: Not accepted.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government does not accept this recommendation. Under <inline font-style="italic">Australia's International Development Policy</inline>, we will continue to deliver a high-quality, effective development program underpinned by rigorous performance and delivery frameworks.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government considers the existing Due Diligence Framework used by DFAT fit-for-purpose. The Framework allows DFAT to employ a risk-based approach to the engagement of a wide range of implementing partners, many of whom operate in difficult environments.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Framework establishes important minimum requirements for any implementing partner delivering development cooperation or humanitarian assistance, regardless of the environment. These minimum requirements are reflected in the seven criteria applied for a baseline due diligence assessment (Entity Details; Past Performance; Fraud and Corruption Control; Proscribed List Checks; Integrity System Checks; Child Protection; and Preventing Sexual Exploitation, Abuse and Harassment). Delegates may elect to include additional assessment criteria depending on a range of factors such as the complexity and financial value of the activity, operating environment and delivery arrangements.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Guidance for departmental officers provides some flexibility in how assessments are conducted. It outlines a range of evidence that can be used to complete assessments and indicates they are to be based on a pragmatic evaluation of the best available evidence at the time of completion.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Framework is a risk management tool and not a hard gate for funding, except in instances where a potential partner is on one of DFAT's prohibited dealings lists (e.g. sanctions). It is used to ensure that the delegate has the information they need to make an informed decision, including how risks identified in the assessment process will be mitigated.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">DFAT is currently considering the recommendations from a strategic review of the Australian NGO Cooperation Program ('ANCP') accreditation process and funding policies to ensure these are fit for purpose and able to adapt to multiple contexts, including in Myanmar. ANCP accreditation is a rigorous process, which aligns with and satisfies DFAT's due diligence requirements.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 2</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"><inline font-style="italic">The committee recommends that the Australian Government direct the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade to develop a decision support tool to assist officers conducting risk management assessments to make it easier to facilitate better distribution of aid funding using the proposed contested environment due diligence framework. </inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response: Not accepted.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government does not accept this recommendation. DFAT has a comprehensive risk management policy with procedures and supporting systems to assist officers conducting risk management assessments in relation to development and humanitarian investments.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Risk management is a key focus of the investment design process and is subject to testing and quality assurance. For every investment, there is screening for mandatory policy considerations, including environmental and social safeguards, fraud and corruption and terrorism resourcing risks, as well as other common risk factors. Risks associated with a potential implementing partner, identified through the due diligence assessment process, are also incorporated into investment risk registers stored on the department's online program management platform, AidWorks.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Delegates approving investment designs are responsible for ensuring all material risks have been identified and appropriate management controls and treatments are in place. The Risk Appetite Statement and Tolerances Levels for the development program provide guidance to departmental officers as to which categories of risk require greater attention in decision making and management effort during implementation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">A strong focus on risk management is maintained throughout the implementation phase of an investment. DFAT recommends that investment managers review investment risk registers at least quarterly. In addition, all investments over $3 million are required to undergo an annual performance assessment, which includes criteria related to risk management.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 3</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"><inline font-style="italic">The committee recommends that the Australian Government utilise any new due diligence framework to engage with and strengthen ties with aid partners and stakeholders on the ground in contested environments, such as the National Unity Government, faith-based non-government organisations and civil society organisations. </inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response: Noted.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes this recommendation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Although the Government does not accept recommendations one and two, it notes the intent of this recommendation in terms of strengthening localisation, which is a key commitment of <inline font-style="italic">Australia's International Development Policy</inline>.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australia already engages with development and humanitarian partners and stakeholders on the ground in contested environments, including Myanmar.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government appreciates the importance of hearing and understanding the voices of all stakeholders in Myanmar. Australian officials engage with representatives of the National Unity Government, faith-based non-government organisations (NGOs), civil society organisations and other groups. Australia will continue to engage with all relevant stakeholders to reduce the politicisation of international development assistance, and to advocate for access to people in need and the safety of those providing assistance.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australia's development and humanitarian assistance for Myanmar is delivered through United Nations (UN) agencies, multilateral and regional partners, international NGOs, local NGOs and local civil society organisations. While Australia's direct funding partners are mostly multilateral agencies and international NGOs, they partner with local groups to deliver assistance.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 4</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"><inline font-style="italic">The committee recommends that further details be released as soon as possible on the Australian Government's new International Development Policy's key commitments on: </inline></para></quote>
<list><inline font-style="italic">providing multi-year funding and capacity development to local organisations, with support as needed to meet policy requirements; and </inline></list>
<list><inline font-style="italic">designing a new Civil Society Partnerships Fund that will support local CSOs. </inline></list>
<quote><para class="block"><inline font-style="italic">In particular, detailing how these programs will apply in the context of Myanmar and resolve the challenges being faced under the current framework. </inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response: Noted.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes this recommendation. <inline font-style="italic">Australia's International Development Policy </inline>prioritises locally-led development, multi-year funding and capacity development to local organisations, with support as needed to meet policy requirements. The policy also includes a commitment to design a new Civil Society Partnerships Fund that will support local civil society organisations. DFAT will release further details as arrangements are developed.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">To facilitate implementation of these commitments, DFAT has recently published new guidance on supporting locally-led development. The guidance emphasises there is no 'one size fits all' approach to locally-led development programming. Further detail will be outlined at country-level in Development Partnership Plans, and at program-level through investment designs, taking into account factors such as country context, development objectives, delivery models, partners, risk and safeguarding.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Providing support for organisational capability (e.g. financial management, child protection policies) will be central to locally-led development: this can be provided directly in funding agreements or via intermediaries. Strategies will be tailored with the local organisation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In certain contexts, it may not be possible to partner directly with local actors. In those cases, DFAT will work indirectly through intermediaries such as Australian NGOs, international NGOs, multilateral agencies and managing contractors. For example, to advance locally-led development, ANCP allows partner NGOs to plan multi-year programs and projects, and is also trialling a 'pass down' of a minimum $10,000 for each Australian NGO annual grant to local partners to support their administrative costs.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government has a range of multi-year humanitarian and development programs in Myanmar across several sectors, where the direct implementing partner is a multilateral agency or international NGO, but which partner with a range of local organisations to implement activities on the ground. Many of these programs provide multi-year funding and capacity development for local organisations. Noting the sensitivities and security situation in Myanmar, the Government does not publicise the details of local implementing partners. This is at their request.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Legal and Constitutional Affairs Legislation Committee — Report on the Attorn e y-General's Portfolio Miscellaneous Measures Bill 2023 [Provisions] — Government response</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australian Government response to the Senate Legal and Constitutional Affairs Legislation Committee report:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Attorney-General's Portfolio Miscellaneous Measures Bill 2023 [Provisions]</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">AUGUST 2024</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Introduction</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Government welcomes the opportunity to respond to the Senate Legal and Constitutional Affairs Legislation Committee's (the Committee) report, <inline font-style="italic">Attorney-General's Portfolio Miscellaneous Measures Bill 2023 [Provisions]</inline> (the Report), tabled on 1 February 2024. The Government would like to acknowledge the contribution that organisations made in preparing written submissions to the Committee's inquiry.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The <inline font-style="italic">Attorney-General's Portfolio Miscellaneous Measures Act 2024</inline> (the Act) received Royal Assent on 11 June 2024. The Act makes a range of important amendments to update, clarify and improve the intended operation of legislation administered by the Attorney-General's portfolio. The Act:</para></quote>
<list>confers jurisdiction on the Federal Court of Australia (Federal Court) to hear and determine a range of summary and indictable offences relating to conduct within the responsibility of the Australian Securities and Investments Commission (ASIC) (Schedule 1);</list>
<list>enables the Sheriff of the Federal Court (Sheriff) to request a State/Territory jury official to prepare and provide a jury panel for use by the Federal Court (Schedule 2);</list>
<list>makes minor amendments to the <inline font-style="italic">Marriage Act 1961 </inline>(Marriage Act) to clarify and improve the operation of the Commonwealth Marriage Celebrants Program and provide greater accessibility for marrying couples (Schedule 3);</list>
<list>removes an administrative burden on the Federal Circuit and Family Court of Australia in relation to hearing arbitration applications in family law matters (Schedule 4, Part 1);</list>
<list>repeals section 213A of the <inline font-style="italic">Native Title Act 1993 </inline>(Native Title Act) (Schedule 4, Part 2);</list>
<list>expands the membership of the Parliamentary Joint Committee on Human Rights (PJCHR) (Schedule 4, Part 2A); and</list>
<list>corrects typographical errors in the <inline font-style="italic">Federal Circuit and Family Court of Australia Act 2021 </inline>(FCFCOA Act) and the <inline font-style="italic">Federal Court of Australia Act 1976 </inline>(Federal Court Act) (Schedule 4, Part 3).</list>
<quote><para class="block">The amendments to the <inline font-style="italic">Human Rights (Parliamentary Scrutiny) Act 2011</inline> to expand the membership of the PJCHR (Schedule 4, Part 2A) were inserted after the Committee's inquiry.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government tabled an Addendum to the Explanatory Memorandum for the Attorney-General's Portfolio Miscellaneous Measures Bill 2023 (Addendum) in the Senate on 16 May 2024 to address Committee recommendations 1-2 and dissenting recommendations 2-4 and 6-7 of Senator Paul Scarr.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government's response to the Report is set out below. The response addresses the recommendations of the Committee and the recommendations in Senator Scarr's dissenting report.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendations</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 1: The committee recommends the Attorney-General's Department update the Explanatory Memorandum to the Attorney-General's Portfolio Miscellaneous Measures Bill 2023 to include further guidance and information to clarify how the proposed reforms to the Federal Court of Australia in Schedule 1 and 2 of the Bill will result in more efficient prosecution of corporate crimes and increased procedural fairness.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government supports this recommendation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Addendum tabled by the Government in the Senate on 16 May 2024 addresses this recommendation and the Committee's associated comments.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 2: The committee recommends that, subject to the passage of the Bill, the Attorney-General's Department amend the Guidelines on the Marriage Act 1961 for authorised celebrants to reflect the requirements for a celebrant to hold a separate meeting with each party to the marriage before it is solemnised. The amendments should provide information as to how the meetings might operate in practice and how consent can be determined.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government supports this recommendation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Attorney-General's Department will amend the <inline font-style="italic">Guidelines on the Marriage Act 1961 for authorised celebrants</inline> to reflect the requirements for a celebrant to hold a separate meeting with each party to the marriage before it is solemnised.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">There will not be a mandatory approach to the issue of separate meetings. The duration, timing and approach to a separate meeting with each party to a marriage will be at the discretion of the marriage celebrant, having regard to cultural and other relevant considerations. However, the department will work with celebrants and celebrant associations to develop options to support celebrants to comply with this obligation, for inclusion in the Guidelines.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 3: The committee recommends the Bill be passed.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes this recommendation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Act received Royal Assent on 11 June 2024.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Dissenting recommendations of Senator Paul Scarr</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 1: It is recommended that the Bill be divided to allow the Senate to consider Part 2 of Schedule 4 (dealing with the Native Title Respondents Scheme) in its own bill separate from Schedules 1 and 3 and Parts 1 and 3 of Schedule 4 in the Bill.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government does not support this recommendation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government considered that division of the Bill was not be an effective use of the Parliament's time. Scrutiny by this Committee illustrates that the Senate was able to appropriately consider the Bill in its entirety, including Part 2 of Schedule 4. Accordingly, no amendment was made to the relevant provisions.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 2: It is recommended that the government considers providing additional commentary in the Explanatory Memorandum regarding the offence categories included in subsection 67G(4) to address the concern of the Law Council.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes this recommendation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Addendum tabled by the Government in the Senate on 16 May 2024 addresses this recommendation and Senator Scarr's associated comments.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 3: It is recommended the government considers amending the Bill and/or its explanatory materials to include further matters that could guide the court's consideration about whether a transfer of proceedings would be in the interests of justice.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government does not support this recommendation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Addendum tabled by the Government in the Senate on 16 May 2024 states:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill does not define the criteria for assessing the interests of justice. Rather, the court should assess the interests of justice on a case-by-case basis, having regard to the relevant circumstances. In this regard, the Bill is consistent with transfer regimes provided for in other Commonwealth legislation, particularly the [<inline font-style="italic">Jurisdiction of Courts (Cross-Vesting) Act 1987</inline>].</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The methodology for assessing the interests of justice, including considerations, has been developed by the common law. This existing methodology would also apply to transfer decisions under the Bill.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 4: It is recommended that the accused be provided the right to make an application to transfer proceedings as proposed by the Law Council.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government does not support this recommendation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Addendum tabled by the Government in the Senate on 16 May 2024 states:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Although the Bill does not afford the accused a right to apply for part or all of the proceedings to be transferred, the accused's right are protected in several ways. The principles of procedural fairness will require the court to provide the accused an opportunity to be heard before any decision to transfer or not transfer is made by the court. Depending on the relevant rules of court, the accused may have a right to make an application requesting the court exercise its powers to transfer proceedings on its own motion. Superior courts, such as the Federal Court, have inherent powers to protect the administration of justice and prevent abuses of power. These powers would ensure that transfers do not occur in circumstances which would unfairly prejudice the accused.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 5: It is recommended that if the Bill is passed, the government refers to the CDPP for its consideration of the request of the Law Council that guidance material be developed by relevant federal agencies, and be made publicly available, about when a prosecutor should apply to transfer proceedings.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes this recommendation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The management of prosecutions for the Australian Government is the responsibility of the Commonwealth Director of Public Prosecutions (CDPP). The CDPP publishes and maintains the <inline font-style="italic">Prosecution Policy of the Commonwealth</inline> and other materials to guide decision-making in the prosecution process. As an independent entity, the appropriateness and development of any guidance relating to whether to transfer proceedings is a matter for the CDPP.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 6: It is recommended that the government considers including an enhanced explanation of jury preparation and jury selection processes in the Explanatory Memorandum to the Bill as requested by the Law Council.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes this recommendation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Addendum tabled by the Government in the Senate on 16 May 2024 addresses this recommendation and Senator Scarr's associated comments.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 7: It is recommended that the government considers including in the Explanatory Memorandum more detailed specification of the criteria to be applied by the Sheriff in utilising the discretionary, hybrid jury preparation procedure proposed in Schedule 2 of the Bill.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government does not support this recommendation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Addendum tabled by the Government in the Senate on 16 May 2024 states:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Subject to certain safeguards …, the Sheriff will have discretion to determine whether a jury panel is to be prepared by the Sheriff or provided by a State/Territory jury official, on a case-by-case basis. The Sheriff is best placed to determine which of these approaches for preparing a jury panel is appropriate in the circumstances. Specifying detailed criteria to which the Sheriff must have regard when making their election could impact the efficiency and effectiveness of this measure.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Although the Sheriff will have discretion as to which of these approaches is to be adopted, the Bill provides a number of safeguards. The Sheriff must, in writing to the Chief Executive Officer of the Federal Court, elect whether a jury panel is to be prepared by the Sheriff or provided by a State/Territory jury official, pursuant to new section 23DD of the Federal Court Act. This ensures certainty for the Federal Court in managing the proceedings before it. A request by the Sheriff to a State/Territory jury official to prepare and provide a jury panel may only be made with the consent of the relevant State or Territory. Therefore, a State/Territory jury official will not be required to prepare and provide a jury panel for a particular jury trial unless the relevant State or Territory has consented to do so.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 8: It is recommended that the amendments in the Bill in relation to subsection 42(1) of the Marriage Act 1961 relating to identity requirements be passed.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes this recommendation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Act, including the amendments in relation to subsection 42(1) of the Marriage Act, received Royal Assent on 11 June 2024.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 9: It is recommended that the issues raised by the Celebrant Institute be considered through meetings held by the Attorney-General's Department and the Celebrant Associations and Networks, including at biennial meetings. If the results of such consultation indicate that any further clarifications or improvements should be made to the Marriage Act 1961 to address the concerns raised by the Celebrant Institute in its submission (or in relation to any other matter), then these should be the subj ect of a further amendment of the Marriage Act 1961 to be introduced into the Parliament as soon as reasonably practicable.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes this recommendation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 10: It is recommended that the issues raised by the Celebrant Institute be considered through meetings held by the AGD and the Celebrant Associations and Networks, including at biennial meetings. If the results of such consultation indicate that any further clarifications or improvements should be made to the Marriage Act 1961 to address the concerns raised by the Celebrant Institute.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes this recommendation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 11: It is recommended that the Bill not be passed if it continues to contain Part 2 of Schedule 4 abolishing the Native Title Respondent Scheme</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government does not support this recommendation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Abolition of the Native Title Respondents Scheme was an election commitment of the Government.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Consistent with its election commitment, the Government ceased providing this funding in the October 2022 Budget. The repeal of section 213A of the Native Title Act gives full effect to the Government's election commitment.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Native Title Act has been in place for 30 years. Many legal questions and uncertainties have now been settled by the courts which means that the outcomes of many native title proceedings are more predictable, and in turn less costly. In addition, native title matters are increasingly being resolved through negotiation rather than litigation, which reduces the cost of involvement.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Native Title Respondents Scheme has been used by a range of entities to fund their involvement in native title matters. With more legal certainty and familiarity with native title now, those entities should be in a position to factor the costs associated with native title matters into their expected business costs.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Accordingly, no amendment was made to the relevant provisions.</para></quote>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Legal and Constitutional Affairs References Committee</title>
          <page.no>3697</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Report</title>
            <page.no>3697</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:45</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ROBERTS</name>
    <name.id>266524</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate take note of the report.</para></quote>
<para>I wish to comment on Legal and Constitutional Affairs References Committee report <inline font-style="italic">COVID-19 </inline><inline font-style="italic">r</inline><inline font-style="italic">oyal </inline><inline font-style="italic">c</inline><inline font-style="italic">ommission</inline>. Last year, I was successful in having the Senate inquire into the prospective terms of reference for a royal commission into the government response to COVID-19. The inquiry was held, and I thank Senator Paul Scarr for his even-handed treatment of the process and for producing with the secretariat at an excellent report—outstanding! After hearing and reading testimony from multiple highly qualified witnesses, every one of whom called for a royal commission, the committee did, in fact, recommend a royal commission be held. Their report was 128 pages of honesty, decency and common sense.</para>
<para>Last week, the government provided its response to the report—one-and-a-bit pages. Here's what it says: 'The government does not support a royal commission. The government does not support working with the state governments on an inquiry. The government does not support the proposed terms of reference. The government does not support any further public involvement in the inquiry process.' How can we have an investigation when the government says it does not support working with the state governments, yet it's got an inquiry underway right now that is not considering the state governments. Instead, the Albanese Labor government will continue with their cover-up inquiry, comprised of two bureaucrats and a university academic closely involved in the COVID response. Shame! The government is letting bureaucrats and academics investigate themselves. What a disgrace! It is betrayal. It's inhuman.</para>
<para>During the last election campaign, the Prime Minister promised a royal commission or similar inquiry. A Senate select committee inquiry would fit that description. Then Senator Gallagher promised us a royal commission. No wonder the public distrust politicians, when two promises that were as clear as day were broken the minute the Labor Party came to power. It does raise this question, though: what was the motivation for the government to proceed with a cover-up instead of its promised judicial inquiry? Could it be the donations the Labor Party received from the pharmaceutical industry in the last election?</para>
<para>Here's the list from the Australian Electoral Commission of donations made to the Australian Labor Party in 2022-23: AbbVie, the makers of leuprorelin, a puberty blocker, $14,000; Alexion Pharmaceuticals, $33,000; Amgen biopharmaceuticals, $27,500; Aspen Medical, $83,000; AstraZeneca, $33,000, and isn't there a huge conflict of interest in refusing to investigate them; Bayer, $33,000; Bristol-Myers, $52,000; HA Tech pharmaceuticals, $54,000; and Johnson & Johnson pharmaceuticals, $36,000. Kerching, kerching, kerching! The cash register at the Labor Party is ticking over. Here are more donations: Merck Sharpe & Dohme, $66,000; Navitas, $33,000; Pfizer, $25,000—another cash register kerchinging. There was Roche, $66,000; Sanofi-Aventis, $42,000; Pharmacy Guild of Australia, who enjoyed years of profit dispensing high-paying COVID injections, $154,000; and Medicines Australia, the peak lobbying body for the pharmaceutical industry, which just gave the former head of the TGA, Professor Skerritt, a job as a director, donated $112,000 to the Labor Party campaign funds—kerching! Including smaller donations, the Labor Party raked in almost a million dollars from pharmaceutical companies and associated favours bought.</para>
<para>It's not just big pharma, either. Remember when you couldn't get COVID at Bunnings, yet you could get it at your neighbourhood hardware store? Governments forced many hardware stores to stop business during lockdowns, and they went broke while Bunnings grew its market share. Then they set up vaccination stations in their car parks. I know many people thought that was odd, so let's look at this list of donations. The owners of Bunnings, Wesfarmers, donated $110,000. For completeness, let me list One Nation's pharma donations in 2022-23: none! There was not one donation from the pharmaceutical industry, the banking industry, the healthcare industry or the net zero industry. Why? It's because One Nation is not for sale.</para>
<para>I will now review what the government are covering up with their refusal to hold a COVID royal commission. This is based on expert witness testimony to the committee inquiry and on peer reviewed papers and data analysis which have come out since the inquiry. Firstly, testimony before America's congress proves SARS-CoV-2 was the product of gain-of-function research, with funding from Anthony Fauci's National Institutes of Health, managed through Peter Daszak's EcoHealth Alliance. The research started in the USA, and, when President Obama banned gain-of-function research, it was moved to the Wuhan Institute of Virology in China. But the research continued secretly and illegally in North Carolina. We know that. In 2021, Australia's CSIRO confirmed it assisted in the Wuhan research. We're complicit.</para>
<para>Secondly, the official timeline for COVID is wrong. The University of Siena in Italy sequenced COVID on 10 October 2019. Unconfirmed reports persist of three lab technicians from Wuhan lab presenting with flu-like symptoms to a hospital in Wuhan in mid-September 2019. Those three were COVID patients zero. Wuhan has 90 direct overseas flights a day, including five a day into Italy and five a day into Australia, where symptomatic infections started showing up around the end of December 2019. This means that, in October 2019, when the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation sponsored the COVID-themed Event 201 war game that the World Economic Forum organised, COVID was alive in public. Note that the Nobel Prize winning virologist Luc Montagnier sequenced COVID in April 2020 and found, 'It is not natural. It's the work of professionals and of molecular biologists—a very meticulous work.' Luc declared the virus was a combination of the original man-made SARS virus, parts of the HIV virus and a bat virus which was there to fool the body's immune system into thinking it had never seen the virus before and as a result had no immune response to it.</para>
<para>The fact that the virus escaped before it could be perfected has saved billions of lives. What they tried to do was evil personified. Here is an example. The RNA genome of SARS-CoV-2 consists of 30,000 nucleotides and 11 major coding genes. Pfizer, BioNTech and Moderna took the 4,284 nucleotides constituting the spike protein. At positions K986P and V987P, they introduced mutations to stimulate increased production of human antibodies. Those spike proteins of SARS-CoV-2 are involved in receptor recognition, viral attachment and entry into the host cells. The last part is significant. Both COVID itself and the mutated vaccine material enter human cells. There's certainty on this point. These COVID vaccines are gene therapies yet are not regulated as such. No safety testing was done on the long-term effect of introducing a mutated COVID DNA strand into the human genome.</para>
<para>Secondly, Oxford University investigated brain injury from COVID. It mapped the brains of 785 participants and waited for them to get COVID; 401 obliged, creating a control of 384. All were scanned a second time, and any brain function difference was attributed to COVID spike proteins. Oxford University found 'significant longitudinal effects, including a reduction in grey matter thickness and tissue contrast, changes in markers of tissue damage in regions functionally connected to the olfactory function and a reduction in global brain size in the SARS-CoV-2 cases. The participants who were infected with SARS-CoV-2 showed on average a greater cognitive decline between the two time points.' The paper concluded these results may indicate degenerative spread of the disease through olfactory pathways through the nose. Doctors who advocated for nasal preparations were actually right. The nose turns out to be the key. One study found 471 bacterial agents in 171 face masks, many of which had high resistance to antibiotics. This was an important issue for the royal commission to understand.</para>
<para>Thirdly, Yonker et al. from Massachusetts General Hospital tested young people presenting with chest pains and found free spike antigen was detected in the blood of adolescents and young adults who developed post-mRNA-vaccine myocarditis, linking the shots with heart disease in the young.</para>
<para>Fourthly, we knew as early as November 2021 that spike protein could build up in the lungs, heart, kidney and liver, causing an inflammatory response, yet we kept injecting spike proteins into people, including children, over and over. Now they're dying suddenly and doctors are baffled—the hell they're baffled!</para>
<para>Fifthly, SARS-CoV-2 spike proteins, meaning most likely the shots as well, have serious effects on the vasculature of multiple organ systems, including the brain. Outcomes include fatal microclot formation and, in rare cases, encephalitis. Wait a minute—isn't New South Wales now urging parents to vaccinate their children against a sudden outbreak of encephalitis? COVID and COVID shots are the same man-made poison, yet we never tested the shots long enough to reveal that. Now people are dying and suffering life-altering disease while we continue to inject the public with boosters containing the very substance that is causing these deaths and injuries.</para>
<para>Today I'm announcing that, in the first week of December, I will be conducting the third of my full-day reviews of COVID, to be called 'COVID on trial'. I promise to hound those responsible—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>298839</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator Roberts. Do you wish to seek leave to continue your remarks?</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ROBERTS</name>
    <name.id>266524</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Yes, I seek leave to continue my remarks later.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:56</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator AYRES</name>
    <name.id>16913</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I have listened to these contributions from Senator Roberts and some of his colleagues—Mr Dutton's favourite candidate for the Senate, Senator Rennick—and others. I have spoken about them at length before, and I don't intend to take much time now.</para>
<para>That contribution really is a titanic effort to fit every single barking-mad conspiracy theory into one contribution, into a 15-minute slot of extremism and conspiracy theories. The problem with extremism and conspiracy theories is that they do damage. They are deliberately calculated to do damage. They are propagated by people—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Roberts</name>
    <name.id>266524</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I'm standing on a point of order. Senator Ayres is impugning motive and maligning without facts.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>298839</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I have been listening. I think the remarks are general in nature and haven't been directed towards you, Senator Roberts, but I will continue to listen.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Roberts</name>
    <name.id>266524</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>He said I was literally trying to hurt people.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>298839</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>To the extent that you made that remark, Senator Ayres, are you willing to withdraw?</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator AYRES</name>
    <name.id>16913</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Of course. I'm always happy to withdraw. The people who propagate those conspiracy theories either are unwitting dupes who are silly enough to believe that kind of material that you find in the swamp of the dark recesses of the internet or are deliberately seeking to do social harm. I don't know which category Senator Roberts falls into, but he falls into one of them because there is no alternative there. Misinformation—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>298839</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Ayres, I do think that crossed a line. I think you now are impugning Senator Roberts, so I'm going to ask you to withdraw that.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator AYRES</name>
    <name.id>16913</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I withdraw that. I have to say that I withdraw unreservedly, but it is open to me to canvass what the various reasons are for this kind of damaging misinformation and disinformation being propagated. It has a serious effect, and we see that, where there is extremism, there is a reason why the ASIO director-general highlights the role of extremist misinformation and disinformation in terms of its corrosive effect. It does lead to some of the acts of violent extremism here and overseas, motivated by the same vile conspiracy theories that we've just heard and that are supported by some of these characters here.</para>
<para>The problem, really, for the Liberal and National parties on this is how much they continue to tolerate it. It's all the pats on the back for the extremists. It's always: 'Yes, don't worry. That's just Senator Roberts. You know, he and his cooker associates—that's just them. Don't worry about it.' But every time they do that, they support extremism—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Roberts</name>
    <name.id>266524</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>On a point of order: Senator Ayres is again maligning. I'm not associated with cookers.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Ayres, please restrain yourself.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator AYRES</name>
    <name.id>16913</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I am doing my best. What is being propagated is so damaging to Australia, to our democratic institutions, to the health of our public debate and to public health itself, and it is exactly the kind of conspiracy theory ideology that is used to promote violence and threats online. The kind of swamp online that these theories come from is exactly the swamp that these kinds of characters play in, and it should not be tolerated by a party that says that it hopes to form government one day.</para>
<para>It should not be tolerated, but it is. It is tolerated. It is encouraged. It is acquiesced to. It is becoming a stronger and stronger strain of thinking amongst some of these characters in the Liberal and National parties, some of whom are on what appears to be their own path to radicalisation. So I just think it has got to be called out every single time it happens, and I will continue to call it out because it's bad for Australia, damaging to our democracy and beneath contempt, in my view.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Human Rights Joint Committee</title>
          <page.no>3699</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Report</title>
            <page.no>3699</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:02</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ALLMAN-PAYNE</name>
    <name.id>298839</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate take note of the report.</para></quote>
<para>This report from the Parliamentary Joint Committee on Human Rights inquiry into compulsory income management must spell the end of compulsory income management. For years advocates, participants, academics and the Greens have fought for the abolition of compulsory income management. Evidence before this committee showed dramatically different rates of exemptions granted from compulsory income management, with First Nations people much less likely to apply for exemptions and significantly less likely to get exemptions.</para>
<para>This report, one of many through the years, only confirms what the Greens and the community have been saying for years: this system does nothing but reinforce a racist and oppressive program. The fundamental premise of this system is discriminatory. This scheme is only another way in which the government systematically discriminates against and oppresses First Nations people. Evidence to this inquiry called the scheme 'a racist, paternalistic policy framework that only does damage to individuals and communities, especially to First Nations people'.</para>
<para>The system is built on the assumption that some communities cannot manage their finances, so they need to be limited by the government. This program has been a dud since its inception. Its stated purpose is to prevent welfare payments from being spent on gambling, alcohol and drugs, but the data doesn't bear this out. Ninety-seven per cent of recipients subject to this program have never gambled or have never gambled more than they could afford to lose. Eighty-one per cent said they never drank or drank less frequently than more than once a week. In attempting to address a non-existent problem, this government went back on its promise and instead expanded a paternalistic system that makes managing finances more difficult and discriminatory for recipients, and it tells these recipients that it doesn't trust them.</para>
<para>This report also highlighted the complete lack of positive impacts that these decisions have had. Instead, successive governments have crafted a system that places additional burdens and pressures on women and children fleeing domestic violence. It makes it harder to put money aside to escape abuse, and survivors have expressed difficulty in buying bus fares, school lunches and second-hand clothes. Compulsory income management also limits a recipient's ability to purchase cheaper second-hand goods, including things like textbooks for study. Evidence from the report showed:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… subjecting an individual to mandatory income management and restricting how they may spend a portion of their social security payment engages and limits the rights to: social security, privacy and equality and non-discrimination, and may limit other human rights (including the right to an adequate standard of living and the rights of the child).</para></quote>
<para>In many submissions to the committee, recipients described extra fees and added difficulty to pay rent and bills on time as a direct result of the SmartCard system. One respondent noted that compulsory income management felt similar to the financial control and abuse that they suffered in a former domestic violence relationship.</para>
<para>This report is long overdue, and the complete abolition of compulsory income management is even more overdue. Labor must not continue to kick this can down the road. It is a matter of urgency that compulsory income management be abolished. It's a matter of urgency because just in the past few days we've seen the incoming Northern Territory leader commit the NT government to shift parents of kids who are missing school to income management. All of this is against a background where you have the most underfunded schools in the country in the NT. Instead of coming at this from a place of care, support and empathy, we've now got a new Territory minister jumping up and down, asking the federal government to keep expanding income management.</para>
<para>It is critical for this government to take advantage of progressive support in the Senate to abolish compulsory income management for good. Otherwise, we risk the very real possibility of a more amenable government coming into power and expanding income management even more. I urge the Labor government to act now and to act on the promises that they made in opposition. I seek leave to continue my remarks later.</para>
<para>Leave granted; debate adjourned.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>3700</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Treasury</title>
          <page.no>3700</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>3700</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:08</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I table documents relating to an order for the production of documents concerning tax assessments for not-for-profit entities.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:08</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CADELL</name>
    <name.id>300134</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate take note of the documents.</para></quote>
<para>I seek leave to continue my remarks later.</para>
<para>Leave granted; debate adjourned.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Civil Aviation Safety Authority</title>
          <page.no>3700</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>3700</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:08</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I table documents relating to an order for the production of documents concerning fire ant eradication and helicopter flight permits.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:08</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CADELL</name>
    <name.id>300134</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate take note of the documents.</para></quote>
<para>I seek leave to continue my remarks later.</para>
<para>Leave granted; debate adjourned.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>3701</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport References Committee</title>
          <page.no>3701</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Membership</title>
            <page.no>3701</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:09</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The President has received a letter requesting changes in the membership of a committee.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:09</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That Senator McKenzie replace Senator Reynolds on the Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport References Committee for the committee's inquiry into Commonwealth, Olympic and Paralympic Games preparedness, and Senator Reynolds be appointed as a participating member.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BILLS</title>
        <page.no>3701</page.no>
        <type>BILLS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Net Zero Economy Authority Bill 2024, Treasury Laws Amendment (Financial Market Infrastructure and Other Measures) Bill 2024</title>
          <page.no>3701</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p>
              <a href="r7177" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Net Zero Economy Authority Bill 2024</span>
                </p>
              </a>
            </p>
            <a href="r7176" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Treasury Laws Amendment (Financial Market Infrastructure and Other Measures) Bill 2024</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Returned from the House of Representatives</title>
            <page.no>3701</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo></subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Customs Amendment (Strengthening and Modernising Licensing and Other Measures) Bill 2024, Customs Licensing Charges Amendment Bill 2024, National Disability Insurance Scheme Amendment (Getting the NDIS Back on Track No. 1) Bill 2024, Net Zero Economy Authority (Transitional Provisions) Bill 2024, Telecommunications Amendment (SMS Sender ID Register) Bill 2024</title>
          <page.no>3701</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p>
              <a href="r7209" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Customs Amendment (Strengthening and Modernising Licensing and Other Measures) Bill 2024</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <a href="r7210" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Customs Licensing Charges Amendment Bill 2024</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <a href="r7181" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">National Disability Insurance Scheme Amendment (Getting the NDIS Back on Track No. 1) Bill 2024</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <a href="r7178" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Net Zero Economy Authority (Transitional Provisions) Bill 2024</span>
                </p>
              </a>
            </p>
            <a href="r7211" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Telecommunications Amendment (SMS Sender ID Register) Bill 2024</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Assent</title>
            <page.no>3701</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo></subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>3701</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Legal and Constitutional Affairs References Committee</title>
          <page.no>3701</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Reference</title>
            <page.no>3701</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:11</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RENNICK</name>
    <name.id>283596</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the following matter be referred to the Legal and Constitutional Affairs References Committee for inquiry and report by 10 December 2024:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The benefits of conducting a Federal Convention to examine the ambiguous roles between the state, territory and federal governments considering, but not limited to, the following issues:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) the need to streamline the duplication of bureaucracies to save billions of dollars in bureaucratic waste and reduce unnecessary regulations;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) the lack of accountability and transparency between the state, territory and federal governments;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) the need for state and territory governments to raise their own revenue to reduce their reliance on Federal Government funding;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(d) the need for Federal grants and goods and services tax allocations to state and territory governments to be much more transparent, efficient and effective;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(e) the need for the implementation of a co-ordinated infrastructure funding facility to provide capital for sovereign infrastructure;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(f) the need for the Corps of Royal Australian Engineers to take responsibility for building and maintaining all national land transport network roads; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(g) any other related matters.</para></quote>
<para>I'm pleased to move this motion today. As I said in my maiden speech, of all the issues faced by Australia, few are more damaging to our country than the fiscal imbalance and ambiguous responsibilities between state and federal governments. You've really got to ask why Australia, a country of 25 million, has nine growing health bureaucracies while maternity wards are being closed in my home state of Queensland. Our Constitution was designed for government to be held to account by the people, yet 120 years of compromise have rendered it ineffective. It's time for what was once COAG and is now National Cabinet to hold a federation convention to clearly define and separate these responsibilities, with proposed changes to be put to the people. The blame game needs to end, and Australians deserve much greater accountability.</para>
<para>I said this back in September 2019, when the bushfires were ripping through the east coast of Australia. I well remember that many people who came to my maiden speech had to take various diversions to avoid the bushfires. During the bushfires we saw the blame game at full throttle, with the federal government being blamed for not doing enough, despite the fact that state governments are responsible for dealing with fires and emergency management. We saw the COVID disaster, whereby there was constant bickering between the state and federal governments over who was responsible for what. Just a couple of weeks ago, up in Gladstone, we had another tragic accident up on the Bruce Highway, and of course the usual blame game is going on. I know my good friend the member for Wide Bay, Llew O'Brien, has had many fights and arguments with the Queensland transport minister, Mark Bailey, over getting funding to duplicate the highway north of Gympie. I know my good mate Llew is very passionate about improving road transport.</para>
<para>The point is that we can't deliver essential services in this country while there is continual bickering between state and federal governments. We can't generate productivity in this country when we have unnecessary rules, regulations and hoops that companies have to jump through to get something built. We saw that just recently with the dismissal of the proposed goldmine in Orange. Regis Resources have spent hundreds of millions of dollars getting regulation approvals from the New South Wales government, only to then come to the federal government and have the project kiboshed. The federal government isn't the government that's going to lose the royalties from that mine. It isn't the government that's going to lose the payroll tax from that mine. It's been very easy for the federal government to kibosh the mine over heritage concerns, but they're not the ones who lose the revenue.</para>
<para>I often talk about capitalism. A capitalist is someone who risks their own capital, not someone else's. We've got this agency theory going on in our federation whereby one level of government can stick the boot into another level of government and not reap the consequences, but this issue is much more systemic.</para>
<para>If we take health, for example—and I quoted this particular example in my maiden speech—we've had over 30 maternity wards close in my home state of Queensland in the last 30 years—not so many recently, but, between 1990 and 2005, a number of them shut down. That's despite the fact that we have these growing health bureaucracies, new departments, the new CDC and whatever, with lots of bureaucrats in the back end coming up with more rules and regulations. But we can't deliver essential services.</para>
<para>In health, the state government really only manages public hospitals. The federal government is responsible for funding private hospitals, it's responsible for Medicare, it's responsible for the PBS and it's responsible for approving drugs through the TGA, as well as other health issues. So wouldn't it make much more sense to move health to the federal government and then, in exchange, move education back to the state governments?</para>
<para>In education—and I often hear the other side of the chamber talk about this—we've got another situation whereby we have private schools funded by the federal government and we have public schools funded by the state government, and then we have this bickering over how much funding private schools get and how much funding public schools get. It's very hard to get a comparison between the schools to know what they get. And we have this bizarre situation where universities are owned by state governments but are funded by the federal government.</para>
<para>What I'm proposing here is a federation convention. I originally wanted a constitutional convention, but I think that was a mistake. I think it should be a federation convention because changes in these roles and responsibilities of the state and federal governments don't actually need a change to the Constitution. They can be a simple agreement through section 109, where they go, 'Okay, you take responsibility for this, and we'll take responsibility for that.' In doing so, you can eliminate bureaucracies and get them out of the road. You'll save money when you eliminate these bureaucracies, because what we've seen in the last 40 years is an increasing number of bureaucrats. If you look at the figures in the health sector, for example, the ratio of bureaucrats to frontline services staff is increasing.</para>
<para>The reason why I'd like education to go back to the states—one of the proposals that I've just suggested—is that I believe education is competitive and it would be good to have competition between the states. On the other hand, basic health, emergency services and things like that are very inelastic, and that matters. We often talk about competition in this chamber—at least on this side of the chamber—and there is this view that greater competition leads to greater outcomes. It doesn't always. Competition can be constructive and it can be destructive, and it's very important—and it's the role of government—to make sure that we have competition that is constructive.</para>
<para>To understand that, you need to also understand elasticity. When it comes to health, there is very little elasticity in basic health services. If I'm bitten by a big black snake out in a paddock somewhere, I'm not going to pick up the phone and ring around the country looking for the cheapest hospital to go to; I'm going to go to the nearest hospital. So we need to be able to deliver reliable health services across the country, regardless of where you live. That is very, very important, and that is the role of the government. It is the role of the government to provide a safety net. But we're not really providing a safety net for the people out there beyond the beltway—beyond the bubble here in Canberra. What we're really giving them is a set of rules and regulations. So that's one example that we need to look at.</para>
<para>Then we've got the whole energy debacle. Our energy sector is controlled by AEMO, and I stand to be corrected on the numbers here, but I think it's 40 per cent owned by the states and 30 per cent owned by the private sector, with another 30 per cent owned by the federal government. This is another classic example of where everyone is in charge and no-one is in charge. Our energy sector, of course, has become a complete mishmash, a Frankenstein's monster. We've got some public assets left in Queensland with our coal-fired power stations. We've privatised base-load assets in other states. We've then got the conga line of rent-seeking parasites in the renewables sector who are constantly milking the federal government for subsidies to keep their heads above water. State governments are throwing subsidies at both the renewables sector and the base-load sector now because they've run down the base-load sector so much that they have to go around propping that up, rather than having a simple model whereby one level of government is responsible for the provision of energy.</para>
<para>I would tend to go back to having the states run energy. It's not in section 51. There's no head of power, I'm led to believe, under section 51 that says energy should be the responsibility of the federal government. Having said that, I give credit to Ben Chifley for using 51(vi) of the Constitution to get the Snowy Hydro project built. He had to bring New South Wales and Victoria together, and at first, I'm led to believe, they complained, but when they realised the federal government was going to pay for it all they let it go through. That's another example showing where, if we let the energy sector run down, we may end up having to use 51(vi) if the energy grid collapses. Again, my experience in life has been that you've got to have clear lines of accountability. When you've got three players in this, a triangular system—state government, federal government and a private market—it ain't working.</para>
<para>On top of that, we've got the water sector. Nothing grinds my gears more than what happened as a result of the Tasmanian dams decision in 1983. Regardless of what your view on the environment is, the fact is that Bob Hawke used section 51(xxix), the foreign treaties powers, to override the powers of the state government. I'm pretty sure that when our founding fathers set up the Constitution and said that the federal government was responsible for foreign powers it wasn't so that they could then sign treaties whereby we've got UNESCO or whatever stopping the state government from building much-needed dams.</para>
<para>Might I add, a good way of providing renewable energy is hydropower, and we don't do enough of that in this country. It's no surprise that since that decision there have been very few dams built in Australia. I'll back dams over desalination plants any day, for two reasons: (a) you can get the sort of renewable power I do support, which is hydropower; and (b) you get irrigation. In this country, we need water security desperately because we do have a hot and dry climate and we can't sustain a rising population unless we learn to control our water. That was the whole basis for the civilisations founded in Middle East, the Indus Valley and those places. It's no coincidence that civilisation was built around the river systems of the Indus Valley; Mesopotamia, with the great Tigris and Euphrates rivers; the Nile River; and the Yellow River and the Yangtze River. These rivers were used for irrigation. The communities at the time were able to secure their food supply and, as a result of that, they went from hunting and gathering to farming. People could then go from farming into the cities, where they could specialise further into trades. If Australia wants to continue to grow and prosper, we desperately need irrigation in this country.</para>
<para>This brings me to one of the things I speak about in this motion, which is looking at a way in which we can fund infrastructure in this country. State governments don't have what is known as exorbitant privilege. They don't have their own currency; that is a domain of the federal government. But we should draw some inspiration from Lachlan Macquarie, who did understand the art of exorbitant privilege and the right of any country to control its own currency. One of the key responsibilities of any country is to control its currency. We need to look at having an infrastructure bank to help fund the state governments to build infrastructure. At the moment, if state governments want to build a dam for a billion dollars they generally have to borrow it offshore, and then the first billion dollars they make from that dam has to be repaid offshore. When they're borrowing money from offshore the biggest market in the world is the Eurobond market, which is all the US dollar bills that get traded around the world outside the US. That money just comes from the US printing press. It's ridiculous that we pay another country to use their printing press when we should be doing it ourselves in a constructive manner by issuing infrastructure bonds.</para>
<para>This is one of the biggest mistakes that people in the West make. We were taught through university that the art of exorbitant privilege is to be able to tap the nation's untapped wealth. In this country, we've got seven million square kilometres. We have this thing called untapped wealth. Every time it rains, that is free wealth falling out of the sky. Every time the sun shines on the soil and we have plants growing, that is free, recurring wealth every time. We need to secure that untapped wealth against the title that our forefathers fought for and built over the years, because that is the definition of a sovereign country; it is title over your untapped wealth. That is the true art of exorbitant privilege—to secure that untapped wealth for our children by issuing infrastructure bonds against the seven sovereign assets. Many of these are built by state governments. They need a funding facility so that they, not the foreign banks, can capture the wealth.</para>
<para>In summary, we need a Federation convention to look at reducing the bureaucracy, reducing cost to the taxpayer, streamlining regulations so that we can increase productivity and finding a way to help fund state governments and federal governments to build the infrastructure that delivers recurring revenue to pay for the recurring costs of our schools and hospitals in a sustainable manner so that our children and all Australians can have a better and more prosperous future.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:25</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BROCKMAN</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I, too, rise to speak on this motion. I thank Senator Rennick for putting it forward. One thing we know about Queenslanders and Western Australians in this place is we tend to be the committed federalists in the building. Western Australians were strong federalists at a time when we probably needed a bit of financial assistance from the Commonwealth government, and we remain committed federalists at a time when we are net givers to the federal economic situation—whether that's through the GST or through the extraordinary tax revenue and royalty revenue that grows from our great mining industry.</para>
<para>The issue Senator Rennick highlights here is one that we should never take for granted—that is, the health of our democracy, the health of our structures and systems, the health of our Federation. I think many of us who have been in and around politics for a number of decades know these discussions about waste, duplication, inefficiency, the lack of clarity between the roles and responsibilities of the Commonwealth government and the states, the blurring of the lines and the tendency for the Commonwealth to creep into areas that were, quite frankly, clearly not part of its purview when the Constitution was drafted. There has been a slow drift. There have been occasional huge lurches in that process through High Court decisions or through, as Senator Rennick outlined, the handing over of particular powers to Commonwealth governments by agreement from the states. But that doesn't mean that this is a set-and-forget Federation. We cannot think that the discussions that were held over 120 years ago now should be the final word as to the health of our Federation and the structures of our Federation.</para>
<para>Senator Rennick is highlighting the possibility—when all's said and done, this is a referral to the Legal and Constitutional Affairs References Committee for an inquiry, and I think that is what this chamber has a responsibility to do. We have seen a tendency in this place in recent times, and particularly in the last year, for Labor—particularly in combination with the Greens—to block what I see as quite legitimate and uncontroversial inquiries, such as an inquiry into the transmission lines through, particularly, agricultural property that are going to be a significant part of the proposed future rollout of renewable energy that Labor and the Greens are championing. That was quite a reasonable inquiry put forward by Senator Cadell—who's in the chamber at the moment—and Senator Colbeck a number of times. How many times did we get up to, Senator Cadell?</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Cadell</name>
    <name.id>300134</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Nine.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BROCKMAN</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Nine times that inquiry was put to this chamber, and nine times Labor, the Greens and the crossbench combined to block what was a perfectly reasonable inquiry. I see here, from Senator Rennick, a perfectly reasonable thing to inquire into—consideration as to whether a Federation convention should be considered to look at some of the issues that have been identified over many decades as being at least a question mark over the efficiency and strength of our Federation.</para>
<para>One of these issues has been laid absolutely bare in the past few weeks, and that is the overlap of federal and state jurisdictions on mining approvals and the lack of clarity that provides to the industry. Regis, a listed Australian company, one of the largest Australian goldminers, spent $193 million and seven years going through all the state approval processes and through all the federal approval processes only to have an arbitrary decision from a minister overrule the project at the eleventh hour. That shows that these systems are not at all as efficient, clear, transparent or reasonable as they should be. Any of us in this room who talk regularly to major project proponents, who have to go through these dual processes, know that the approval times for projects have blown out from between two and five years to between seven and 12 years, sometimes even beyond that for much more significant projects. This is the fault of systemic problems that see state approval processes intersect with federal approval processes, and the delays and confusion that result from those approval processes, overlaid with another layer of arbitrary decision-making, which we've seen from this government in particular in recent days. So I think Senator Rennick's motion clearly raises issues that are of concern, that are of interest.</para>
<para>We saw the very long, protracted debate over GST-sharing arrangements. My home state of Western Australia was on track to receive cents in the dollar of GST revenue raised in WA, and it took a coalition government to fix that issue, in the face of Labor state parliamentarians and Labor parliamentarians in this place saying it couldn't be done—absolutely impossible. Of course, the Liberal government did fix it, championed particularly by the Liberal members of parliament in this place, to put in place a 75c floor in the GST-sharing arrangements, but should that be the last word? From my point of view, that 75c floor should be the lowest we possibly see, but what Senator Rennick is proposing here is an examination of other funding streams to the states and the way in which the Commonwealth government interacts with the states on that basis.</para>
<para>So I think the motion is one that deserves our support. It's a perfectly legitimate motion, and we should allow the Senate Legal and Constitutional Affairs References Committee to look into this matter.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:33</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ROBERTS</name>
    <name.id>266524</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Rennick for his motion. I compliment his intellect and understanding—his technical and financial understanding and his understanding of history. I'm going to read the motion because I think it's fitting. This is a very significant motion, which I will be supporting. It says:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the following matter be referred to the Legal and Constitutional Affairs References Committee for inquiry and report by 10 December 2024:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The benefits of conducting a Federal Convention to examine the ambiguous roles between the state, territory and federal governments considering, but not limited to, the following issues—</para></quote>
<para>I'll go through those issues and respond to each in turn, so I will deal with the terms of reference.</para>
<para>I want to point out something that Senator Brockman pointed out and add to it. Systems drive behaviour, and behaviour shapes attitudes. The combination of behaviour and attitudes, plus values, symbols and leadership, shapes culture, but systems are an enormously powerful driver of culture. And culture, as we all know and increasingly understand through business and other organisations, is fundamental to productivity, fundamental to safety, fundamental to quality and fundamental to security. Culture is crucial. As I go through these terms of reference and make some points, please think about the systems and the behaviours that are driving this, and the culture, because our culture in this country is falling to bits. And think about productivity, which is the key to wealth creation.</para>
<para>I'm going to read some figures here from a paper titled 'The Australian precedence for a Hamiltonian credit system'. On page 15 it says that a paper presented to cabinet calculated the value added in exporting aluminium ore, or bauxite, versus processed aluminium, in 1970 dollars. I'll convert that to 2022 dollars. Exporting one million tonnes of bauxite, the raw material, earned $65 million. Processed one step into alumina, it earned $355 million—5½ times as much for Australians. Processed again into aluminium, it earned $1.6 billion—25 times the value of the ore. Finally, processed into aluminium products, it earned $7.8 billion; that's 120 times the value. You can see the wealth that has been created. Instead of just mining red dirt in Western Australia and other places in the country and shipping it overseas, if we process it here we can generate enormous wealth—almost $8 billion worth of wealth, instead of $65 million.</para>
<para>This is from the terms of reference:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(a) the need to streamline the duplication of bureaucracies to save billions of dollars in bureaucratic waste and reduce unnecessary regulations—</para></quote>
<para>Look at the health department and the education department—duplicated at state and federal level, a complete waste of money. Worse than that, it destroys accountability, because when there's a problem with education the federal points to the states and the states point to the federal, and nothing happens. A culture of blame is created. Think about the behaviours and the culture developed under this kind of system.</para>
<para>We need to get rid of that, streamline the bureaucracies and end the duplication to improve productivity. Productivity in the government is abysmal in this country. We're shutting down the private sector, which has high productivity and generates enormous wealth, and transferring it to low productivity.</para>
<para>I'll read the second term of reference:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(b) the lack of accountability and transparency between the state, territory and federal governments—</para></quote>
<para>This goes to the heart of the problem. I listened to a wonderful mayor, dedicated to his town. He pointed out to me that the federal government has the money and the states have the power, through regulations and legislation—because the Constitution has handed them the power for most of the services provided by government—and the local councils have the problems. Now, councils have accounting system problems in terms of their accounting systems driving inadequate behaviours. But the councils depend upon grants, which are sometimes three years in advance or five years in advance, which means local councils do very little in the way of long-term planning; they can't.</para>
<para>But the fathers of the Constitution, our country's forefathers, pinched an idea from America—competitive federalism, which basically means that sovereign independent states are competing with each other to provide the best services, or the most efficient services. The same thing has happened here, and that drives accountability, because if a state does poorly in something then people leave the state and go somewhere else; if a state does well in something, people come to that state. When Joh Bjelke-Petersen, a former premier of Queensland, abolished death duties, people around Australia flocked to the Gold Coast because when they died they could leave their money to their children. And what happened? With that improvement, other states did the same, because they lost people if they didn't.</para>
<para>So competitive federalism is a marketplace in governance, and that's what we need, because at the moment we have central domination of our system, just like what America has sadly evolved into—a central government domination. There's no marketplace in governance. There's very little accountability. The states blame the federal government, and the federal government blames the states. So we need a marketplace in governance to be restored.</para>
<para>Australia, 120 years ago, was the world's wealthiest country in terms of per capita income. We need to get back to that. We have the resources; we have the best resources in the world. We have great people. The education system sucks, but we can get back to a proper education system. We need to restore accountability and we need to bring back competitive federalism, and these terms of reference so far are on the right track.</para>
<para>Term of reference (c) is 'the need for state and territory governments to raise their own revenue to reduce their reliance on federal government funding'. I completely agree. States used to have the right to raise income tax. That was taken away as a war measure in 1942 or 1943 by the federal government and hasn't come back. I would suggest that we need to seriously look at stripping the federal government of income tax powers and, as the terms of reference say, give them back to the states. Let the states be accountable for what they raise and for their interest rates. At least have the debate. When a state raises money, it's accountable for its spending. If it needs to go to its taxpayers for more, then let the taxpayers—the voters—make up their minds. This would bring real accountability and significant productivity improvement.</para>
<para>Term of reference (d) is 'the need for federal grants and goods and services tax allocations to state and territory governments to be much more transparent, efficient and effective'. I wholeheartedly agree. We need comprehensive tax reform to make the GST transparent. Why not just have comprehensive tax reform to see whether the GST can't be abolished and replaced with a far more productive system? Under the GST, states like Western Australia generate the majority of the revenue, and states like South Australia and Tasmania are on the tit for money. They don't have to produce. They don't have to be productive. They don't have to develop their resources. They don't have to be accountable. Queensland, I'm sad to say—at least a couple of years ago—one of the wealthiest states in the world, was a net recipient of GST. That's an absolute disgrace, and that's because of the Beattie-Bligh-Palaszczuk-Miles governments that have destroyed budgets, destroyed the economy in Queensland, exacerbated the revenue problems and created so much waste.</para>
<para>So why not have the states raising the tax? At least have a discussion. It's not the states raising the tax in addition to the federal government; it's instead of the federal government raising income tax. And then have the state governments determine how much they will share with the federal government—accountability and productivity again.</para>
<para>Then we go to term of reference (e), 'the need for the implementation of a coordinated infrastructure funding facility to provide capital for sovereign infrastructure'. A long-term plan—wouldn't that be wonderful? Councils, state governments and federal governments would have long-term plans. It would streamline approval processes.</para>
<para>And what about the project that I've introduced into the Senate? It wasn't my idea. It was the idea of Lang Hancock and maybe even someone before him in Western Australia: Project Iron Boomerang. Restore Australia to being a significant player in high-quality, value-added steel and one of the biggest producers of steel in this world. We've already got, according to proponents of the project, significant interest from Japan, Korea, Taiwan, communist China, Indonesia and, potentially, India and Saudi Arabia in that project. Instead of sending ships loaded with our iron ore from Western Australia and our coal from our east coast, in Central Queensland, we would send coal to the west coast and make steel there, mixing it with the iron ore, and send iron ore to the east coast and make steel there, at Abbot Point. We would have up to 10 steel mills at each end, which would make us a significant producer of steel, which would add productivity, value, security, accountability and wealth generation—enormous wealth generation.</para>
<para>As Senator Rennick said, we can convert nature's blessings into products and services that will meet people's needs. Why ship our raw materials overseas so someone else can do the value-adding? We need to do that here in this country. Connecting the west coast to the east coast with a railway line and having steel mills at both ends would make it very productive. It would open up the whole of Central Australia, the whole of North Queensland and the whole of northern Western Australia and would give the communities in those remote areas access to water from a pipeline, access to communications and access to a railway line, eventually bringing tourists and investors from around the world and exporting products to the rest of the world.</para>
<para>Let's look at term of reference (f):</para>
<quote><para class="block">the need for the Corps of Royal Australian Engineers to take responsibility for building and maintaining all national land transport network roads …</para></quote>
<para>I'm not so sure about this, because it doesn't comply with the true federal system. States need to retain responsibility and accountability, but we need to have the debate. We need to start that debate, and that's what I compliment Senator Rennick for in raising this.</para>
<para>We also need to consider the use of data in our federal government. Data is ignored, contradicted, twisted and misrepresented in this country, and by this federal parliament in particular. We need to get back to good governance through the use of data in making decisions.</para>
<para>I will just take this opportunity—I've mentioned it to one or two senators in the place here—to ask: why don't senators sit in state groups? This is not only the house of review; it is the states house. It is here to protect the states. It is for those reasons—and, above all, to start the debate on how we can improve and restore our country so that it is productive and so that all Australians can be wealthy—that I commend Senator Rennick for moving this motion. I will be supporting it.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:46</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thought I might, for the people of Queensland and from the people of Queensland, present an alternative perspective on the world from the Labor Party. The government will be opposing this motion, although I congratulate Senator Rennick on introducing his first motion as a newly Independent senator. I am looking forward to some of the freestyle policy that we're going to get from Senator Rennick. It'll certainly liven things up around here. But I regret to say that we will be opposing this motion.</para>
<para>The Albanese government are committed to working cooperatively with states and territories, which is how we've already managed to deliver significant reforms in the national interest. Just last week, National Cabinet agreed to a landmark $4.7 billion package to end violence against women in a generation and strengthen legal services. This will deliver much-needed support for frontline specialists, better identify and respond to high-risk perpetrators and address the role that systems and harmful industries play in exacerbating violence. This is the biggest investment by any federal government in legal services in our nation's history.</para>
<para>Last year, National Cabinet announced the $3 billion New Homes Bonus to incentivise states to build homes faster and secured a better deal for renters. This sets our ambitious goal of building 1.2 million homes and develops a nationally consistent renters policy, including phasing in minimum rental standards. This year $1 billion was paid to states and territories to build the road, sewer, energy, water and community infrastructure that we need for new homes and for additional social housing supply.</para>
<para>In health, National Cabinet agreed to the further $1.2 billion Strengthening Medicare package of measures to take pressure off our hospitals. This will grow and support our health workforce while reducing unnecessary presentations to emergency departments. We also boosted funding for Medicare urgent care clinics and last week we opened our 75th clinic.</para>
<para>Last week, the Commonwealth reached a historic bilateral agreement with the Cook government in Western Australia to fully and fairly fund Western Australia's public schools. This will ensure all WA schools are funded to 100 per cent of the schooling resource standard by 2026. This follows similar agreements reached with the Northern Territory government.</para>
<para>Following the tragic event at Wieambilla in Queensland, National Cabinet reached a landmark agreement to implement a national firearms register. This will allow police to know where firearms are, who owns them and what other risks to the community and police may exist. This is the most significant improvement in Australia's firearms management systems in almost 30 years and was the result of good cooperation between the Commonwealth, states and territories. This initiative is led by the Attorney-General's Department and the Australian Criminal Intelligence Commission, working alongside state and territory governments.</para>
<para>Our governments—federal, state and territory—will continue this good work, and therefore we will be opposing this motion.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I put the question. As a division is required and it's after 6.30, it will be deferred until tomorrow.</para>
<para>Debate adjourned.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BILLS</title>
        <page.no>3708</page.no>
        <type>BILLS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Australian Human Rights Commission Amendment (Costs Protection) Bill 2023</title>
          <page.no>3708</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <a href="r7110" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Australian Human Rights Commission Amendment (Costs Protection) Bill 2023</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>3708</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:51</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Australian Human Rights Commission Amendment (Costs Protection) Bill 2023, which has been debated today—and I think in fact the debate commenced yesterday—will implement the objectives of recommendation 25 of the <inline font-style="italic">Respect@Work</inline> report by alleviating a significant barrier to justice for those pursuing federal unlawful discrimination proceedings. It will do so by inserting a modified equal access costs protection provision into the Australian Human Rights Commission Act. This reform would overcome the deterrent effect that an adverse cost order currently poses to applicants seeking to commence unlawful discrimination proceedings and provide certainty for all parties as to how costs could be awarded.</para>
<para>This bill would address the power imbalances and resource disparities present in most unlawful discrimination proceedings. It would ensure that, where an applicant is successful on one or more grounds, the respondent would pay the applicant's costs. However, if the court is satisfied that a successful applicant's unreasonable act or omission caused the applicant to incur costs, the court is not required to order the respondent to pay the costs incurred as a result of that act or omission.</para>
<para>This bill would prevent a court from ordering an applicant to pay the respondent's costs except in certain defined and limited circumstances. These exceptional circumstances include where the respondent has been successful in the proceedings and is not at a significant power or financial advantage over the applicant.</para>
<para>These modifications to the equal access model ensure the bill strikes an appropriate balance between protecting applicants and helping to overcome the financial deterrent to them commencing proceedings and recognising where this would not be reasonable or fair.</para>
<para>I thank the Senate Legal and Constitutional Affairs Legislation Committee for their considered inquiry and report on the bill. The government has implemented the Senate committee's recommendation to provide further guidance on the term 'unreasonable act or omission' through an addendum to the explanatory memorandum. This will provide further certainty to all parties involved in federal unlawful discrimination proceedings that a holistic approach must be taken when making such determinations.</para>
<para>I also welcome the Senate committee's recommendation that, subject to this change, the bill be passed. The government considers that the modified equal access cost protection provision in this bill reflects a considered and balanced approach which best achieves the policy objectives of recommendation 25 of the <inline font-style="italic">Respect@Work</inline> report. On that basis, I commend the bill to the chamber.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I put the question that this bill be now read a second time. A division is required, but we're past 6.30, so it's deferred. Minister?</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I'm sorry, Deputy President. It was remiss of me to forget to table the addendum to the explanatory memorandum relating to the Australian Human Rights Commission Amendment (Costs Protection) Bill 2023. The addendum responds to matters raised by the Legal and Constitutional Affairs Legislation Committee.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>That can be tabled.</para>
<para>Debate adjourned.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Taxation (Multinational—Global and Domestic Minimum Tax) Bill 2024, Taxation (Multinational—Global and Domestic Minimum Tax) Imposition Bill 2024, Treasury Laws Amendment (Multinational—Global and Domestic Minimum Tax) (Consequential) Bill 2024</title>
          <page.no>3708</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p>
              <a href="r7220" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Taxation (Multinational—Global and Domestic Minimum Tax) Bill 2024</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <a href="r7221" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Taxation (Multinational—Global and Domestic Minimum Tax) Imposition Bill 2024</span>
                </p>
              </a>
            </p>
            <a href="r7222" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Treasury Laws Amendment (Multinational—Global and Domestic Minimum Tax) (Consequential) Bill 2024</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>3708</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:54</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DUNIAM</name>
    <name.id>263418</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak on the Taxation (Multinational—Global and Domestic Minimum Tax) Bill 2024 and its two associated bills. The coalition supports the continuation of the OECD two-pillar process on multinational tax avoidance, a process the former government initiated and is now being continued by the Labor government. Working with like-minded nations in international forums like the OECD is critical to ensuring that multinational corporations from all jurisdictions pay what is their fair share of tax and contribute to the countries in which they operate.</para>
<para>The coalition took extensive action over our nine years in government to address multinational tax avoidance. As the host of the 2014 G20 summit, Australia played a leading role in the original OECD G20 base erosion and profit shifting, or BEPS, project, which was initiated in 2013 and delivered in 2015. Under the coalition's leadership, Australia adopted the OECD G20 BEPS recommendations, which established a multilateral approach to preventing tax avoidance and increasing tax transparency for tax administrators. At the time, the coalition government implemented several key measures including the introduction of the diverted profits tax, the DPT, which limits a company's ability to shift profits outside of Australia. We also introduced the multinational tax avoidance law, the MAAL, ensuring that companies cannot avoid a taxable presence in Australia. We also strengthened the thin capitalisation rules, improved transfer pricing rules, doubled the penalties for tax avoidance and established the ATO Tax Avoidance Taskforce in 2016. The ATO taskforce was designed to enforce existing laws and support new government measures aimed at preventing tax avoidance. Between 2016 and 2021, the ATO raised $24.2 billion in tax liabilities against large public groups, multinational corporations, and privately owned and wealthy groups. This effort generated collections of $17.3 billion.</para>
<para>It's critical that we continue to pursue fair and consistent tax rules not just within Australia but also with like-minded nations around the world. This is exactly what we're doing through initiatives like the OECD two-pillar solution in collaboration with our international peers. We commend the Labor Party for following our lead in continuing this important work. However, while we support these efforts, it's important to recognise that the current government has not fully delivered on its promises. At the last election, Labor made a clear commitment that its sole focus on taxation would be on addressing multinational tax avoidance. Yet, despite this promise, they've failed to follow through on even that basic commitment.</para>
<para>Labor's handling of country-by-country reporting and changes to thin capitalisation has been nothing short of shambolic. The policy incompetence of the Assistant Treasurer has been so glaring that at least once he needed his senior minister, the Treasurer, to intervene and fix his hair-brained schemes. Labor, led by the Prime Minister and the Treasurer, assured Australians that there would be no tax increases beyond working with other countries to make multinational tax regimes fairer, but, as we've seen, this promise was not worth the paper it was written on. Labor's pledge to focus solely on multinational tax avoidance has well and truly been broken.</para>
<para>Instead of keeping their word, Labor has raised taxes in several key areas that will have an impact on the lives of everyday Australians. Labor has increased taxes on superannuation, capturing one-in-10 Australians over time. According to Treasury modelling, young Australians earing average wages today will be subjected to this tax. This is also a new tax on unrealised capital gains—unprecedented in our tax system. This is an assault on family-owned businesses and self-managed super funds, undermining the financial security of hardworking Australians. In addition, Labor has targeted franking credits, banking half a billion dollars in taxes from Australian companies, retirees, super funds and charities. This is a direct attack on the financial wellbeing of those who have worked hard and planned for their future. Labor has also ended small-business tax concessions, dramatically reducing the instant asset write-off that so many small businesses rely on to invest and grow their operations and is failing to provide certainty due to their continued legislative mismanagement. Higher taxes will not help address the cost-of-living crisis that so many Australians are facing. Higher taxes will not solve the problem of anaemic economic growth. Higher taxes will not reverse the collapse in productivity that we're witnessing under this Labor government.</para>
<para>Our economy is shuddering to a halt. Personal income taxes have risen by 20 per cent thanks to bracket creep. Prices are up by 10 per cent, and for working households, prices have increased by over 18 per cent. Real wages have collapsed by nine per cent and living standards have fallen by eight per cent. Household savings have dropped by 10 percentage points also. Australia is now trailing behind our peer nations and a family with a typical mortgage of $750,000 is approximately $35,000 worse off. This is in no way responsible economic management. Labor's higher spending, higher interest rates and higher taxes, coupled with the additional $315 billion of spending across three budgets, have left Australians far worse off.</para>
<para>Their broken promises on taxes, including on superannuation, franking credits and small businesses have only added to this immense pain. The changes to the multinational tax arrangements in this bill do not make up for Labor's attacks on aspirational Australians. These changes do not compensate for Labor's inaction on inflation. They don't address the impact of rising interest rates on Australian households. Nor do they undo the harm caused by Labor's tax policies.</para>
<para>Australians deserve a government that is focused on the challenges they face today. And while the coalition will not oppose this legislation, we will not apologise for holding this government to account for their broken promises on tax, their failure to take meaningful action on productivity, and their lack of focus on fighting inflation. We need a government that prioritises the economic wellbeing of all Australians and takes real steps to address the cost-of-living crisis, improve productivity and, importantly, restore confidence in our economy.</para>
<para>In conclusion, while we support the continuation of efforts to tackle multinational tax avoidance, we can't ignore the broader economic challenges facing our nation. Labor's broken promises and misguided policies have left Australians worse off, and we must continue to hold them to account. Our focus must remain on creating a fair and prosperous Australia where everyone has the opportunity to succeed.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:02</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKIM</name>
    <name.id>JKM</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak on the Taxation (Multinational—Global and Domestic Minimum Tax) Bill 2024 and I can inform the chamber that the Greens will be supporting this legislation. We will be doing so for a range of reasons, but in the main because it aligns Australia with the Two-Pillar Solution which has been agreed to by the OECD and the G20, and that Two-Pillar Solution, of course, seeks to reform international taxation rules to improve the taxation of multinational corporate profits.</para>
<para>But I do want to say that we think this bill should be going far, far further than what is proposed in this legislation, and also Labor should be doing much, much more to make big corporations pay their fair share of tax in this country so that we can invest in programs and supports for people, like, for example, putting dental and mental health into Medicare. I'll have a bit more to say about the things that Labor could be doing to make big corporations pay their fair share of tax in Australia but are not doing because they accept obscenely large political donations from those big corporations, including the big supermarket corporations, the big fossil fuel corporations, the big gaming corporations and the list goes on.</para>
<para>This bill implements internationally agreed rules to ensure that multinational corporations with an annual global revenue of A$1.2 billion or greater are subject to a global minimum tax rate of 15 per cent. Putting a floor on the global tax rate for large multinationals is a good thing, and that is one of the reasons the Greens will be supporting this bill. If a multinational entity has a parent or subsidiary company based in Australia but relies on an international tax haven to pay less than 15 per cent at a group level of tax, Australia will be able to apply a top-up tax. While this represents a small step forward in addressing the profit-shifting behaviour of big multinational corporations, it needs to go much further. In Australia, our corporate tax rate is 30 per cent. Fixing a global minimum corporate tax rate of half of Australia's corporate tax rate is far too little. Fifteen per cent is close to the soft rates charged by tax havens like Ireland, Switzerland and Singapore. It'll do little to end the damaging race to the bottom on corporate tax or to rein in the widespread use of tax havens.</para>
<para>The bill is set to increase tax receipts by $370 million over the next five years. That is a good thing, but let's be clear about this: when you take the massive multinational corporations that operate in Australia as a collective group, including things like big pharma companies and big tech companies, that represents a very small drop in the ocean of the profits that those companies extract from our country and our people every year. So we urge Labor to use its position as a member of the G20 and the OECD to advocate for a global minimum corporate tax rate of 25 per cent, which is far closer to Australia's corporate tax rate and is about the weighted average of OECD countries.</para>
<para>Labor are not going to do that—we know that—because they are a party beholden to the oligarchs and the big corporations, but that is what Labor should be doing. If we set the global minimum corporate tax rate at 25 per cent, that would far more effectively reduce the incentive for corporations to artificially inflate the amount of deductible expenses in high-tax jurisdictions. It's also the rate that organisations such as Oxfam, the Tax Justice Network and the Centre for International Corporate Tax Accountability and Research have tirelessly advocated for, including in their submission to the inquiry on this legislation. I want to thank those organisations for that tireless advocacy and for their important work at both a national and a global level to reform our tax and financial systems, address corporate greed and make corporations pay a fairer amount of tax so we can put in place supports that would reduce economic inequality in Australia and help people who are being crushed at the moment by the cost-of-living crisis.</para>
<para>Another issue with the two-pillar solution is that, of course, it favours wealthy countries, with far fewer benefits for countries in the Global South. This is because the right to apply a top-up tax is given, in priority, to the home country or countries of residence of the multinational corporation by applying an income inclusion rule, while the host country's right to top up tax on profits at source is only a fallback. As a result, the two-pillar solution benefits countries where multinational corporations already attribute high levels of profit under current rules—jurisdictions which act as investment hubs or conduits for profit shifting. Estimates show that most Global South countries will gain little or no additional tax revenue directly from the global minimum corporate tax, and, since its rules are highly complex and highly complicated, joining the scheme would not be cost effective for most of those countries. Again, the Greens are asking Labor to increase its efforts to assist democratic governments in the Global South to obtain their fair share of tax revenue from the profits of multinational corporations doing business in their countries.</para>
<para>Notwithstanding the concerns that I've raised, we will absolutely be supporting this legislation. But the aim here from Labor and from Labor's global advocacy should be to prevent the continuation and exacerbation of the present unfair and ineffective approach and maintain the momentum towards a more comprehensive reform that delivers more equity and fairness than the reform that we are currently debating. A fair way to do this would be based on unitary taxation of multinational corporations, with apportionment based on where the corporations are actually doing business and not on their artificial legal structures. That is a proposal that has been advanced by the Tax Justice Network, and I commend them for the work they've done to develop that proposal and for their advocacy of it. A proposal like that could benefit countries and multinational corporations alike by establishing a simple, effective and fairer system for multinational corporate taxation.</para>
<para>We want to see Labor go further. We want to see them go beyond the bare minimum and use their power on the international scene to advocate for strong international tax reform that would rein in the profit-shifting behaviours that we far too often see from multinational corporations and deliver benefits not only to Australia but to countries in the global south, who are going to disproportionately miss out on the tax revenue that they are due from big multinational corporations.</para>
<para>I also want to take this opportunity to talk about corporate tax in Australia and the things that Labor should be doing, but isn't doing, because of the institutionalised bribery of political donations. Labor needs to crack down on corporate profiteering, and it needs to act to make corporate price gouging illegal. The ABS, the Australian Bureau of Statistics, has collected data since 1960 on the share of the economy that goes to profits versus the share of the economy that goes to wages. In the 64 years of collecting this data, corporate profits as a share of the economy have never been higher than they are today, and wages as a share of the economy have never been lower. Think about that for a minute, colleagues. It means that corporations are making off like bandits to an extent that they never have since this data started being collected well over half a century ago. Workers, the people who go to work every day and earn a wage, have never been receiving less of the share than they have since this data started being collected 64 long years ago.</para>
<para>The corporations are doing very nicely in this country, thank you very much, and the workers are doing terribly. It's because governments of both political stripes over the last 50-plus years have been far more interested in acting on behalf of corporations than they have on acting on behalf of wage-earners and ordinary Australians. Corporate profits are at record highs, the amount of money flowing to corporate profits has never been higher, and people are being crushed by inflation, and the RBA's response has been to engage in a record series of interest rate rises.</para>
<para>The lived experience of Australians—who are currently struggling to make ends meet; currently struggling to put food on the table, currently struggling to afford to pay their power bills; and currently struggling with rent increases and interest rate rises, which are smashing mortgage holders—is borne out in some of the data that we are seeing. The big banks are raking in billions of dollars in profit. They are rewarding their CEOs with multimillion-dollar annual salary and bonus packages. Corporate profits as a share of the economy have never been higher. Wages as a share of the economy have never been lower. One-third of the top 100 largest corporations in this country pay no tax at all. Corporations are price gouging Australians. Their profits are going through the roof, and millions of Australians can't afford to put food on the table, pay their rents or keep up with their skyrocketing mortgage payments. Corporations are price gouging, and it is ordinary people who are being smashed as a result.</para>
<para>What Labor should be doing is backing in the Greens on our big corporations tax package that we are taking to the next election as policy. Taken as a whole, the Greens' corporate tax package will raise $514 billion over the next decade. It includes a big corporations tax that will impose a 40 per cent additional tax on excessive profits, which would raise $296 billion over the decade. It includes a revamped tax on offshore oil and gas to close the loopholes in the PRRT, which, as it currently stands, is one of the greatest tax rorts for big corporations in Australia's history—arguably the biggest tax rort that big corporations have ever enjoyed. The other significant component of our big corporations tax is a 40 per cent tax imposed on the superprofits of fossil fuel mining projects, with an exemption for new and vital sectors, like lithium and nickel, that are essential in terms of the renewable energy investment that we need to see in Australia. That tax will raise $107 billion and will ensure that everyone in Australia benefits from the resources that mining companies are extracting.</para>
<para>We could use that $514 billion—the over half a trillion dollars over the next decade that the Greens will raise from our big corporations tax package—to actually help people who are getting smashed with the cost of living. We could afford to build public housing so everyone could have access to a secure and affordable home. We could put dental and mental health into Medicare. We could make university education genuinely free. Most people in this chamber who have a university degree got to enjoy free university when they were studying, whereas now Labor is allowing HECS fees to grow faster than a lot of people can afford to pay them off. It's well beyond time that Labor started backing in the interests of the Australian people over their corporate political donors—well beyond time. It's time that corporations paid their fair share of tax so millions more Australians can lead a more dignified life. It is outrageous that about a third of the 100 highest-earning corporations pay no tax at all—less tax than a nurse or a carpenter or a teacher. It is an absolute, utter disgrace. Labor must do better.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:17</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WALSH</name>
    <name.id>252157</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>We are a government that takes multinational tax reform seriously, and we are getting on with practical reforms and practical progress. Indeed, it would be fair to say that there hasn't been a government in Australia that has done more to reform multinational tax than this one—reform led by the Assistant Minister for Competition, Charities and Treasury, Andrew Leigh. Our reforms are about making sure that multinationals pay their fair share of tax in Australia and around the world. Our reforms are about shining a light on the tax affairs of some of our largest multinational companies, because we know that greater transparency brings greater corporate responsibility and greater compliance too.</para>
<para>These are sensible reforms. They are about lifting standards to meet community expectations, and they do just that. Importantly, they are not being done in isolation. The rest of the world, off the back of the OECD's work, is getting on with the job of implementing the very same reforms, making sure that in Australia, in developing nations and right across the world companies benefiting from the economies that they are operating in are giving back to those economies and those societies too.</para>
<para>These bills, the Taxation (Multinational—Global and Domestic Minimum Tax) Bill 2024 and related bills, are just the next step in our government's agenda to deliver on our commitments. They legislate the powers necessary to allocate top-up taxes where companies have not paid at least a 15 per cent rate of corporate tax. That can be in Australia or in another jurisdiction. In effect, this sets a global floor on corporate taxes, directly addressing the race to the bottom of corporate tax, ensuring that when companies may be doing the wrong thing, when they may be shifting profits to avoid paying their fair share of tax, there is a multilateral approach to correcting that.</para>
<para>The Senate Economics Legislation Committee held an inquiry into these bills. The committee heard just how important it is for Australia to be one of the leading jurisdictions on these global reforms and what it will mean for lifting the standards of corporate taxes and reporting right across the world. The Tax Justice Network Australia urged the committee to support the passage of the bills through parliament, and the Corporate Tax Association noted the significant milestone these bills represent in delivering the OECD's multilateral changes to global tax laws. The economics committee agreed to recommend that these bills pass.</para>
<para>These bills complement a series of reforms that this place has already passed, delivering on the government's election commitments to reform multinational taxes and to ensure multinationals are paying their fair share of tax. These reforms include important changes to how thin capitalisation rules factor in debt. They include new anti-avoidance rules to ensure artificial debt isn't being created for the purposes of writing down tax liabilities. They include a requirement for publicly listed companies to include detail on their subsidiaries, including where in the world they are and how they operate. Also before the parliament is country-by-country reporting—a really important tool to lift the transparency and reporting standards of these large companies. This will require large companies to report publicly where they are doing business, where they are making their money and where they are paying or, indeed, not paying their share of taxes.</para>
<para>In conclusion, taking this suite of bills together, these reforms are making really important changes to the amount of tax that multinational corporations are paying in Australia and right across the world. They are part of global reforms to boost the transparency and accountability of multinational tax affairs. In Australia, our package of reforms will boost revenue by around $1 billion over the forward estimates. These bills should be commended, and I welcome the parliament's support for them. I welcome the support of the Greens and the coalition, as we've heard this evening, and I thank everyone for the work they have done in championing these reforms and helping to usher them through the parliament.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:22</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator POLLEY</name>
    <name.id>e5x</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise tonight to make a contribution on the Taxation (Multinational—Global and Domestic Minimum Tax) Bill 2024 and the associated bills. This is one part of a three-part package of bills which seeks to reform our taxation system and which, if passed, will apply to fiscal years on or after 1 January 2024. These bills enable a 15 per cent global minimum tax and domestic minimum tax for multinational corporations operating here in Australia with an average global revenue of A$1.2 billion.</para>
<para>The Albanese Labor government is deeply committed to ensuring that everyday Australians are taxed fairly. In the last month—a little longer than that, in fact—we've ensured that a really fair tax cut has gone to all Australian workers, to every Australian taxpayer, ensuring that more of what they earn stays in their pockets. The Albanese Labor government is 100 per cent dedicated to fairness and equality in every aspect that a federal government is involved in. That is why we also want to ensure that the big end of town—big business, multinational companies—pays its fair share of tax.</para>
<para>We luckily have a very robust corporate taxation system here in Australia where multinational corporations must pay their fair share of tax. Since coming to office just two years ago, the Albanese Labor government has already delivered four significant and integral multinational tax reform measures. We have introduced a new disclosure law which requires listed and unlisted public companies to disclose information on the number of their subsidiaries in their country of tax residency—really important. This creates more transparency in how companies are structuring their subsidiaries and helps prevent corruption and abuse of the legislation.</para>
<para>The second fundamental reform the Albanese Labor government has made in the area of multinational taxation legislation is in the implementation of a public register of beneficial ownership, which makes information relating to who specifically benefits from profits made by multinational corporations and who holds ownership more transparent. The third fundamental part of our multinational tax reform is about strengthening the way our foreign investment system reduces the risk of multinational investors trying to dodge tax. We have delivered a stronger, more efficient, more productive and more streamlined approach to foreign investment.</para>
<para>The Albanese government has delivered a funding boost for the Australian Taxation Office's Tax Avoidance Taskforce in the October 2022-23 budget by around $200 million a year. Our Labor government has bolstered crackdowns on multinationals dodging tax or avoiding paying their fair share of tax in this country. Furthermore, our government has introduced five further reforms for our multinational tax reforms. They include beginning a country-by-country reporting structure that was introduced to parliament and that, once introduced, has been implementing reporting structures since July this year.</para>
<para>These measures are all really important to ensure that multinationals are paying their fair share of tax here in Australia. The register which will be implemented is part of the government's commitment to integrity. We went to the last election committing to having more openness, transparency and integrity in everything that we do, and this is another area that we have delivered in. We will not waver from our commitment to those principles.</para>
<para>Fundamentally, this bill is about the Albanese Labor government ensuring that our taxation system is fair and transparent and has integrity. The entire purpose of our taxation system is to ensure that our country's government services are provided fairly and equitably, and the objective of this bill, to provide that, is no exception. This bill has provided our election agenda and is actually delivering on more objectives in relation to strengthening the way our foreign investment system reduces the risk of multinational investors avoiding taxation. I'd also like to pay my gratitude and thanks to the Assistant Minister for Competition, Charities and Treasury, the Hon. Dr Andrew Leigh MP, for his contribution to this very important piece of legislation.</para>
<para>Tonight, I would like to urge those sitting on the crossbench to support this crucial piece of legislation to ensure that multinational corporations both globally and domestically are taxed fairly, because every Australian taxpayer needs to be treated fairly. There need to be equitable outcomes for the pay-as-you-go taxpayer and multinationals, because that's the principle that Australians really stand for. If we don't ensure that multinationals and individuals pay their fair share of tax, then no government, whether it's a Labor government or whether it's those from the other side, will be able to deliver these services that we need.</para>
<para>This side of the chamber knows, as a Labor government, that, in terms of affordable housing, providing incentives to get people back into the workforce is always going to come from this side of the chamber. If people want a government that is going to be strong and support people in the care economy, like in aged care and in early childhood education, then they know that they have to support a Labor government. To be able to do all these things, we have to ensure that people pay their fair share of tax. So I am proud of the Albanese Labor government and what we have been able to achieve in a very short period of time to turn around and start cleaning up the mess left by those who were in government for 10 years. They didn't address these multinational issues or make sure there is fairness in our taxation system.</para>
<para>Debate interrupted.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>ADJOURNMENT</title>
        <page.no>3713</page.no>
        <type>ADJOURNMENT</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Breast Cancer</title>
          <page.no>3713</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:30</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HUGHES</name>
    <name.id>273828</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I'd like to draw attention to a discussion paper, supported by AstraZeneca, which shines a light on the incredibly challenging reality faced by the estimated 10,500 Australians who are living with metastatic breast cancer. While the survival rate for Australians living with metastatic breast cancer has improved over the past five years, there is still a long way to go. With metastatic breast cancer, there is no end date for treatment and care. Metastatic breast cancer is currently an incurable, invasive cancer that is spread from the breast to other parts of the body. It often comes with never-ending treatment, poor survival rates and a sense of invisibility. Five years from diagnosis with metastatic breast cancer, only a third of patients are still alive. The psychological and financial pressures of living with an incurable cancer are significant and unrelenting. And it's clear that these patients need greater support to help them get through their disease.</para>
<para>The report that examines their plight is entitled <inline font-style="italic">O</inline><inline font-style="italic">ut from the shadows</inline>. It's so named because, in compiling the report based on local and international evidence, the overarching theme was that metastatic breast cancer patients experience and indeed feel an acute sense of invisibility in the health system as well as in society more broadly. This is a conversation that is happening among oncologists, breast care nurses, academia, patient advocacy groups, the department of health and state based cancer councils. Of course, among them is the most important group of all: the metastatic breast cancer patients themselves. Representatives from all of these groups form part of a webinar that was organised to launch the report, which is a fantastic outcome already, given it proves the clear appetite for constructive change in this space.</para>
<para>The report identifies three key priorities: greater visibility in the healthcare system, the presence of a louder voice specific to their cancer type and increased psychosocial support. The esteemed oncologist Professor Fran Boyle, who wrote the foreword to the report, said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">It is time now to make urgent changes—counting them in cancer registries so we see them, providing platforms so their challenging stories can be heard, building quality information to guide them, and creating support and care that meets their specific needs.</para></quote>
<para>She also went on to say:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Specific support and care, tailored to the stage of their cancer, and access to psychosocial services is also imperative to meet their evolving needs.</para></quote>
<para>It's time to accelerate the momentum we've seen over the past few months for metastatic breast cancer patients so that these patients and their families can come out of the shadows for us all to see, hear and support.</para>
<para>Better psychosocial support is absolutely paramount to this. Currently, Australians with metastatic breast cancer can access just 10 NBS funded mental health sessions per year. This is clearly inadequate. This number needs to be urgently revisited to ensure Australians get the access they need for this important care. There is also insufficient resourcing in the mental health sector, and additional training is needed for mental health experts to support Australians with metastatic cancer.</para>
<para>Cassie, a 36-year-old from Newcastle in New South Wales, has shared her experience, stating:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… when I tell people about my diagnosis, I often struggle with their lack of understanding about the differences between early and metastatic breast cancer. Colleagues and friends often ask me when I'll be in remission or if the disease will stop. But remission is like a mythical unicorn in our world, and I'm constantly haunted by the thought of cancer. Recognising the unique challenges and experiences of people like me with metastatic breast cancer as a separate group could bring huge benefits. We are more than our diagnosis; many of us continue to work and contribute to society, despite the physical and emotional toll of our condition. It's about creating a more hopeful and informed future, not only for ourselves, but for the generations to come.</para></quote>
<para>I'd like to close with a quote from Emma, a 36-year-old mother in Victoria. Emma says:</para>
<quote><para class="block">I'm hopeful for a future with better support and more help for those of us with metastatic breast cancer. A future where we're equipped with the right information to tackle each day as it comes, living our lives to the fullest.</para></quote>
<para class="italic"><inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Refugees, Gambling Advertising</title>
          <page.no>3714</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:35</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HODGINS-MAY</name>
    <name.id>310860</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Today marks 58 days of the refugee led encampment outside the Department of Home Affairs in Melbourne, and it marks more than 12 years of lives lived in limbo for thousands of people. Last Friday, I spoke at the refugee led, 24/7 encampment. I addressed the families and children who have braved freezing weather, who have braved neo-Nazis and who have braved 12 years of uncertainty through no fault of their own. I shared in their grief about lives cut short and lives damaged.</para>
<para>Right now, more than 8½ thousand people who came here for safety over a decade ago are being denied a clear pathway to permanence that they need to rebuild their lives. They live in fear of being taken from the towns and suburbs that they call home. These are people in our communities, people that our kids go to school with, people that we work with, people that we volunteer with.</para>
<para>One of those people is Abbas, who shared his harrowing story with me when he came to Canberra to speak to politicians on behalf of the thousands of people living in limbo. I want to share Abbas's story with you:</para>
<quote><para class="block">We came by sea and didn't know if we would survive the journey but took the chance to seek a safer life. For the first few years we were moved through detention centres until we settled in Melbourne.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It felt like we had finally found home. But in late 2018, everything changed. Our protection claims were rejected. Then in 2020 while we were waiting for our appeal, Covid hit and things got worse.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We couldn't get Medicare. We couldn't work or get any Government assistance, and we struggled to pay rent.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">My Dad also got really sick. He was mentally struggling. Eventually he made the decision to go back to Iran. It wasn't an easy decision.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">My Dad was taken into custody by Iranian authorities. They beat him and let him cut and bruised. He has now been missing for one year.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I can only fear the worst for what has happened to my Dad. And know that if I am forced to go back to Iran this is what I will be facing.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I don't understand why the Australian Government has punished my family in this way. All we wanted was to be safe, be together and to rebuild our lives.</para></quote>
<para>That is why I'm joining others to peacefully protest. It is our hope that the minister for immigration will stand up for better treatment of refugees and people seeking asylum. I want to thank Abbas for his leadership and acknowledge the shameful experience that he and thousands of other people are facing.</para>
<para>They went through a visa process that the government abolished because they determined that it was unfair, but now Labor is saying that those people who had their claims refused have no serious way to challenge them, despite them determining that that system was flawed. Ministerial intervention is inefficient and often takes many, many years. To date, only a small number of people have had success with ministerial intervention. What is needed is a credible pathway to permanent protection, and that is exactly what the Greens will continue to fight for. To the protesters camped outside in Melbourne, Sydney, Brisbane, Adelaide and Perth: we see you, we hear you and we will not stop fighting until there is a pathway to permanency for you and your families.</para>
<para>The majority of Australians want to see a ban on harmful and destructive gambling advertising that is plaguing televisions, and this was confirmed in yet another poll today. Instead of adopting the recommendations from its own inquiry led by Peta Murphy, which called for gambling ads to be banned across all media and at all times, Labor continues to delay a decision.</para>
<para>In my neighbourhood of Macnamara, community members are telling me that they're sick of being bombarded by gambling ads. Whether they're at the footy oval at the weekend, at the skate rink or in their own living rooms, they are sick of listening to their kids reeling off the betting odds instead of the footy scores, they're sick of the constant inducements normalising the insidious gambling industry and they're terrified about their kids joining the growing statistic of problem gamblers in this country. Today I call on the member for Macnamara, where I live, to listen to the needs of our community and to publicly call for a complete gambling ad ban right now. It's time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>E-Cigarettes and Vaping Products</title>
          <page.no>3715</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:40</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator TYRRELL</name>
    <name.id>300639</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Smoking is something I'm very familiar with. My dad was a smoker, my sister was a smoker, my uncle was a smoker, my partner was a smoker, and I was a smoker too. You could say that smoking was a bit of a family habit. I gave up my addiction to smoking after having surgery, but others in my family have used vapes to manage their addictions or to give up altogether.</para>
<para>The Tasmanian government has introduced changes around vaping that mean you can only access vapes if you're over 18 and have a prescription from a doctor. I don't know about you, but I'm not sure how many doctors are going to write a prescription for something they think is harmful, addiction or no addiction. And don't even get me started on how requiring adults to have a prescription to access vapes means they will clog up Tasmania's already overstretched doctor waiting lists or how, when they can't get a doctor's appointment, people will turn to other means to access the vapes they need to manage their addiction. It will be harder to access vapes, which will make it harder for people trying to give up smoking. Not only is this ban the harshest in the country but it's harmful and leaves those struggling with addiction with few options, one of those being the black market.</para>
<para>This isn't just a broken promise; it's a public health disaster in the making. Vaping has been a lifeline for many smokers trying to quit. I've already told you about how I've watched family members successfully switch from smoking to vapes and some of them have quit, but I've also spoken with other Tasmanians who have used vaping to quit smoking and have improved their health in the process. Even the federal government acknowledges that vaping can be an acceptable alternative to smoking tobacco. The Therapeutic Goods Authority—TGA—provides guidance to medical professionals looking to prescribe vapes to their patients. The TGA says that 'therapeutic vapes may be a reasonable intervention' if smokers have tried other quitting aids like patches, gum, lozenges, mouth spray or even inhalers.</para>
<para>The Tasmanian government's approach is going to make things tougher for people to quit smoking, and it will negatively impact our already struggling health system. So why would the Tasmanian government make it harder for Tassies to access a harm-reduction approach to give up smoking? Does the Tasmanian government want more people to smoke and fewer people to vape? That doesn't seem like harm reduction to me. Tasmania already has the highest rate of smoking in people aged over 14—a not-so-good statistic we share with the Northern Territory. If we know something will help smokers give up, why wouldn't we make it available to them? Vaping is one of multiple proven methods when it comes to quitting smoking.</para>
<para>Look, I know smoking is bad and I know smoking damages people's health, but I also know my state government should not be telling adults what to do when it comes to managing their nicotine addictions. Restrictions like those the Tasmanian government has introduced guarantee the rise in a black market for vaping products. When a product is pushed underground, the rules that provide safety and quality are stripped away and the products people buy might be even more dangerous than the cigarettes they are trying to give up. This approach puts Tasmanians at greater risk. The state government's stance is dangerous. If the Tasmanian government were truly concerned about people's health, the approach should be to manage and educate through effective regulation, not restrict and punish those who are trying to quit. To put it simply, this approach makes it so much harder for Tasmanians to access safer alternatives to cigarettes.</para>
<para>We're all addicted to something. It might be alcohol, cigarettes or gambling—all of which have been the subject of debates in this place over the years—but what about other addictions that have been normalised? I can't function without coffee, and I like chocolate and KFC too. Do I know too much of these things isn't good for me? Yes, but that doesn't stop me from having them. I'm an adult and I should be able to choose what I put into my body. If I decided to get healthier and stop eating chocolate or drinking coffee, I'd be applauded. Why is it different for those people who choose to use vaping to help them give up smoking? The Tassie government needs to support people who are trying to give up smoking by allowing them to access vapes without jumping through hoops. Banning vapes and pushing them into the black market is not a minor stumble off the kerb; it's taking a big leap off the cliff altogether.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Gippsland: Energy</title>
          <page.no>3716</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:44</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WALSH</name>
    <name.id>252157</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>After 100 years of proudly generating energy for Victoria, Gippsland is looking ahead. The region is known for its energy legacy, and now locals are focused on securing a sustainable future for their communities and industries, which was really clear to see at this year's Gippsland New Energy Conference. For the third year running, the conference was packed with community groups, businesses, unions and locals.</para>
<para>Among them was Dean, a Gippsland born and bred local currently working at the Yallourn Power Station. Yallourn is set to close in just a few years time, and the community is getting ready for the next steps. With the impacts of climate change looming, the urgency of the energy transformation is only becoming clearer and clearer. And in that transformation Gippslanders want ownership of their future. That future looks like a path in renewable energy. Gippsland is a region with agency and is deserving of respect that hasn't always been afforded. We saw this with Hazelwood Power Station, which was abruptly closed seven years ago with only five months notice from its multinational owner. This closure is a stark reminder of the need for a community led approach.</para>
<para>Now, Gippslanders are calling for the energy transition to be done in partnership with them, not to them. The Albanese government recognises Gippsland's potential, awarding feasibility licences to 12 offshore wind projects. These are capable of matching Victoria's current energy output. These projects are set to transform Gippsland's energy landscape and create thousands of new jobs for locals just like Dean.</para>
<para>Since the announcement, the community has not wasted a day in embracing the opportunity. Local businesses; unions; the community; traditional owners; and groups like the Committee for Gippsland, the Gippsland Trades and Labour Council and the Gippsland Climate Change Network have united to chart a new energy future, culminating in the launch of the Gippsland Offshore Wind Alliance at this week's conference. The alliance is designed to ensure that support for this new industry is heard at all levels of government.</para>
<para>This year, the Minister for Climate Change and Energy, Chris Bowen, came to Gippsland to listen. Minister Bowen's address to the conference highlighted our government's commitment to this region and its energy transformation. At a community roundtable, the minister heard the plan and goals for the region directly from Gippslanders invested in their own future. Demonstrating commitment to investing in the region, he announced the results of the capacity investment auction, and the Wooreen battery in Gippsland was just one of the recipients. This 350-megawatt battery can power 400,000 homes for four hours and comes with a half-a-million dollar community benefit fund to ensure Gippslanders will feel the benefits from this project, and locals like Dean are paying attention to announcements like this one.</para>
<para>For Gippslanders, these developments are more than just policy changes or the next announcement. They are real investments in the region—a region that is worthy of a bright future, so that Dean and others like him can live and thrive in their home towns, contributing to and benefiting from the region's renewable energy transition.</para>
<para>Existing power stations are shaping their futures around renewables too. The next power station to close after Yallourn is slated to be Loy Yang A in 2035, which is owned by AGL. AGL is also one of the 12 proponents awarded an offshore wind licence, with it's Gippsland Skies venture. However, the recent identification of the Loy Yang A site as a potential nuclear location by the coalition in June has been really troubling. Not only did AGL have no say in the announcement; the community knew nothing either. AGL's CEO, Damien Nicks, has been very clear that nuclear is not part of their plans or their strategy. It is just not on the radar—and how can it be when you have no consultation, no listening and no plan?</para>
<para>For Gippslanders, nuclear, at best, spells distraction; at worst, dangerous delay. The abrupt introduction of nuclear energy without proper engagement undermines the years of work invested by locals and the energy sector. The hundreds of conversations held by locals in Gippsland last week and in the years before reinforce the critical need for partnerships and open dialogue. Regions relying on a path to energy transition deserve a real plan to get there. Gippsland should be in the driver's seat of this transition. Dean and other locals need investments like those our government are making for generations to come. It's time that Gippsland takes the wheel and drives its own energy future.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Australian Society</title>
          <page.no>3717</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:49</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ANTIC</name>
    <name.id>269375</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>How often do you hear a woke politician or media pundit using the words 'misinformation' or 'disinformation'? It usually refers to an issue which one disagrees with rather than something which is untrue. We're told that misinformation lurks in the confines of the free-speech digital world, ready to pounce on unsuspecting citizens, and can only be cured by fact checks and censorship. The strange thing is that, from where I sit, the main purveyors of actual misinformation and disinformation aren't on conservative podcasts or tweeting on X. They're experts freelancing around their fields of expertise. These experts spend years mastering one niche topic and then mistakenly feel like this gives them the equal authority to freelance into other topics with opinions which coincidentally marry up with their political views. The media is awash with these experts speaking out on matters that are often totally unrelated to their personal field of study, all the while using their academic titles of expert status as justification for presenting those opinions as facts.</para>
<para>If you want a way to push your climate agenda, find yourself a sympathetic marine biologist to give you a meteorological opinion. If you want to lock people in their homes and force them to inject themselves with a novel therapy, get yourself an epidemiologist to tell you what they think about infectious disease. These people are very capable of drawing false conclusions and very vulnerable to the natural human tendency of bias.</para>
<para>Many experts claim impartiality but allow their work to be influenced by their political views or the priorities of those who fund their research. Many experts make research decisions based on concerns about their own social reputation or their desire to support the legacy of their own earlier work. Many experts freelance outside the scope of their expertise. That's proper misinformation.</para>
<para>An unhealthy reliance on expert views is attractive to those who don't think the people can be trusted to make their own decisions. That's one reason why during COVID politicians allowed the 'best' expert medical advice to set the rules by which we were allowed to live. Now we know that most of those views turned out to be genuine misinformation, and I'm sorry to tell you your masks didn't work and they still don't work today. In March of 2020, when governments in this country began rolling out COVID lockdowns, they did so at the behest of legal advice. That saw us locked down for weeks and months, subjected to ridiculous procedures and forced into treatments we didn't want, all in the name of science—or was it politics?</para>
<para>Having studied a particular topic in depth doesn't make someone infallible. Modelling software is not a crystal ball. Any time you hear one of these people say, 'The science is settled,' alarm bells should ring, because the science is never ever settled; that's what makes it science. The scientific method demands that every question be open to investigation at any time. To trace the history of human knowledge and scientific knowledge in particular is to trace an endless process of orthodoxies being proven false and replaced. People dislike being spoken down to like this, but they dislike being lied to even more.</para>
<para>The use of so-called expert evidence has become a powerful way for politics to dress up opinion as fact and to crush dissent, but not all of it is valid. So where is the real source of genuinely dangerous misinformation? Is it people grappling with ideas on a podcast and social media, or is it your socialist GP giving immunology advice to the entire country on national TV? I tell you what: I know which one I'm more concerned by.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Child Care</title>
          <page.no>3717</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:53</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ASKEW</name>
    <name.id>281558</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Since the Albanese Labor government came to power two years ago, it has mandated pay rises for the early childhood sector on three occasions. To date, it has been the families who have borne the brunt of the pay rises through increased daily fees for their children attending care. The third mandated wage increase was announced on 8 August, just over a month into the new financial year, and has been tied to a promise that centres would not increase the daily fees by more than four per cent. I'm not here to say early childhood educators don't deserve a pay rise; however, the first two of these three increases over the past two years have already added a significant burden to the household budgets of those who have children in early learning.</para>
<para>Families have been struggling with the incremental increases in household essentials, with food, electricity, health care, insurance and petrol all increasing due to the action—or should I say inaction?—of the government. And a large proportion of these families have been burdened with 12 interest rate rises in a sustained period of high inflation. ABS labour force data from August confirmed wages for working householders are going backwards under Labor. Despite Labor's constant assurances that their fiscal measures are not inflationary, many hard-working families are finding it harder than ever to make ends meet.</para>
<para>Those with children in long day care have seen their daily fees, before the childcare subsidy is applied, rise by about 17 per cent in two years, and that's before this latest package is applied. The supposedly capped increase of four per cent, which the government has apparently made a condition for workers to receive this latest pay rise, will add another $6 per day. That might not sound like much, but consider that a child who is in long day care for five days per week will cost families $858 per week before the childcare subsidy is applied. While each family's subsidy is different, the average family who receives, for example, a 77 per cent subsidy is looking at an out-of-pocket cost of about $300 per week, which totals $15,600 a year.</para>
<para>Remember when Prime Minister Anthony Albanese announced Labor's signature 'cheaper child care' reforms, when he boldly declared that no family would be worse off under the changes to the childcare subsidy? That's just another broken promise. The Albanese Labor government promised that increasing the childcare subsidy would make things easier for families looking to re-enter the workforce and create a more affordable system for all Australians. These mandated wage rises might be a quick sugar hit for the workers in this industry and an election bid for their vote, but they do nothing to address the inequities in the system faced by parents looking for reasonably priced child care for their children.</para>
<para>We have all heard the stories of mothers-to-be signing their children up to waiting lists at the day care centres in their area before the child is even born, only to be unable to secure a place when they need it. This particularly applies in rural and regional areas, which are so often childcare deserts. Having a baby in Australia has become an incredibly expensive lifestyle choice. There are many couples who feel they can no longer afford to start or expand their family.</para>
<para>With countless people struggling under the burden of Labor's homegrown inflation and the uncertainty over our future housing and energy markets, to name a few, it is no wonder that more people are choosing to be childless. Birthrates are dropping. Data from KPMG released in July this year describes Australia as experiencing a baby recession. Birth rates have dropped to their lowest level since 2006.</para>
<para>While I will never advocate for the removal of a woman's right to choose whether she wants to have a baby, it's equally important for us to recognise the critical importance of the next generation for this country. We all know that women having babies is good for the economy. It's good for productivity, and it helps keep the economy ticking, as generations enter and leave the workforce. To do that, we need a safe, affordable and accessible childcare system, to give children a good foundation for future learning and to give their primary caregivers an opportunity to re-enter the workforce. Instead, this system has created a world where parents who may have received more subsidy have simply watched that subsidy decrease and, with it, the daily fees increase, which puts them back at square one. What's more is that many centres directly attribute the daily fee increases to the pay rises—effectively passing on the cost to parents.</para>
<para>The reality facing hard-working Australian parents is very different to the story Labor is claiming. The government's claim that these reforms are genuine cost-of-living relief needs to be called out for what it is: a policy that has done nothing to create meaningful change for many. Australian children deserve better—not a system propped up by bandaid solutions, as proposed by Labor.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>International Students</title>
          <page.no>3718</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:59</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HENDERSON</name>
    <name.id>ZN4</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>As each day passes, Labor's international student caps debacle keeps going from bad to worse to disastrous. After promising so much to the higher education sector, including the Australian Universities Accord, the Albanese government's hapless Minister for Education, Mr Clare, has managed to plunge this sector into turmoil. It is not as if he were not doing enough damage: record-high student debt driven by Labor's homegrown inflation, shocking campus antisemitism that does not mean different things to different people, declining completion rates made worse by Labor's abolition of the 50 per cent pass rule and the nonsensical start-up loan scheme where students are forced to pay full price for courses they could previously do for free.</para>
<para>Then came Labor's immigration mess, with the Albanese government opening the floodgates to record levels of international students, which is fuelling the housing crisis and causing unprecedented chaos in the international education sector. I want to reiterate how serious this is. In inner-city Sydney, in suburbs like Glebe, rentals have gone up 17 per cent in 12 months. And let's not forget that at the University of Sydney there are now more than 50 per cent of students who are foreign students—more than 35,000—clocking over that 50 per cent mark, giving rise to serious concerns that universities like the University of Sydney have lost their social licence to bring foreign students to Australia. The bottom line is that the educational outcomes for all students matter. That's why I have called for our public universities to go back to basics, including to focus on the educational outcomes for domestic students, which is their fundamental job.</para>
<para>The doubling in the number of foreign students studying in Australia went from 336,000 in March 2022 to now more than 800,000, a mess of Labor's own making. Every country has a responsibility to manage its migration program in the national interest, but Labor has botched this fundamental obligation and Australians are paying the price. Then came ministerial direction 107, implemented by the former Minister for Home Affairs, who was so bad at her job that she was sacked by the Prime Minister. The decision was made to prioritise visa processing at our nation's most prestigious universities, the group of eight, whilst smashing regional and smaller universities and private higher education providers. So Labor was looking after the big end of town while treating the regions and the private sector with contempt. This resulted this year in 83,000 student visas for the group of eight and just 8,900 visas for regional universities.</para>
<para>Now Labor is covertly, behind closed doors, allocating individual student caps to higher education and VET providers, using a flawed methodology which still looks after the prestigious universities while punishing many others. We have heard in a number of Senate inquiry hearings that great universities like Western Sydney, which plays a vital role in educating foreign nurses who then go on to fill the gaps in the nursing workforce shortages—there's a workforce shortage of 10,000 nurses just in Western Sydney—have been absolutely squeezed, as I say, while others haven't. If you look across the sector—and we are really concerned about the numbers we are seeing—the university allocation has gone back by only one per cent while the allocation to private providers has gone back by 28 per cent. And some private providers have been left with zero new students, like Nova Anglia, which was offering bachelor degrees in EV technology and has been left high and dry. So this is an absolute mess and we are not satisfied with what we are hearing or seeing from this government. The way the government is implementing these caps is appalling, and this minister should be ashamed of himself.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>First Nations Australians</title>
          <page.no>3719</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>20:04</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator</name>
    <name.id>300644</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>LIDDLE () (): What a load of hypocrisy there was on show today from the Australian Greens, the Labor Party and some Independents. A motion voted down today seeking to better understand native title outcomes and opportunities is a missed opportunity to improve the lives of Indigenous Australians. It is ridiculous and disingenuous to talk of self-determination and to have voted against this motion.</para>
<para>Co-signed by crossbench Senators Lambie and Thorpe and me, this motion sought to start to tackle an issue for which there is much evidence and much urgency. Shadow minister for Indigenous Australians Senator Nampijinpa Price, hosted native title holders from Central Australia, who were in the chamber to watch in disgust, disappointment and disbelief that their concerns were ignored.</para>
<para>This was an opportunity to let people speak. It wasn't about hearing from organisations and statutory authorities, but about letting native title holders tell us their view, in their words, what's going on from their perspective. Why has native title been in place for more than 30 years, yet people are land rich and dirt poor? Why have some land rights bodies had mining units for decades, yet never a new mine? Why have so many prescribed bodies corporate, the first point of contact for government and other parties wishing to undertake activities on native title land, entered into administration? How many continue to see little financial return, despite formal agreements with developments, resources and tourism operators and prosperity on their doorstep?</para>
<para>They want to talk about this. They don't have what the Albanese government called 'consultation fatigue'. Elders and the CLC's current chairman travelled to Canberra because of their resolve to see change.</para>
<para>The Labor Party, the Australian Greens and those Independents who voted against this motion simply found it expedient, convenient and plausible to say no. How could you, when there is so much evidence that this is needed? What you lack is courage and a will to secure and support their will for change.</para>
<para>Consider the admission from Labor just yesterday about Anindilyakwa Land Council's poor governance and the lack of commitment to improvement—something the Labor government knew about 18 months ago. How terrible is it that, as custodians of the land on which we pay so much respect every single day, you responded the way that you did?</para>
<para>It was a simple motion which potentially had the ability to change lives and to give hope that someone was listening. It was to examine the role of governance in and the accountability of native title representative bodies and prescribed bodies corporate, and the impact of the Native Title Act. It included the concepts of free, prior and informed consent, consultation and negotiation, the integrity of the register of members, transparency and accountability in decision-making and the process for progressing and approving developments. It was not just about land councils; it was about native title—which includes the perspectives of the impact of native title and its act—and gave space for talk on PBCs, native title rep bodies and traditional owners. Did the Labor Party, the Australian Greens or the Independents who voted against it even read the motion?</para>
<para>This was broader than the reviews that occur periodically by the ANAO, because it was to give voice to people, not those employed by a statutory authority of government: the land councils. Let's be honest with the Australian people; that's what the ANAO looks at—just the land councils in the Northern Territory. This motion was about looking at so much more, giving so many more people the opportunity to speak up, speak out and be heard.</para>
<para>Ironically, the Greens and the Labor Party spent 2023 talking so much about Voice, yet today they voted down providing Indigenous Australians an opportunity to speak. In objecting, the Labor Party said: 'First Nations communities are already experiencing consultation fatigue. This wasteful duplication would be confusing and distressing for First Nations communities.' Well, thanks for caring—caring so much you still said no! The Labor Party said: 'We don't need another standing committee with another review. The motion isn't about governance; it's about politics.' Rubbish.</para>
<para>Certainly the Australian Labor Party, the Australian Greens and those Independents who voted against it made it about politics, when in fact this was about people and unrealised potential. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Childhood Dementia</title>
          <page.no>3720</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>20:09</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator POLLEY</name>
    <name.id>e5x</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak about a very emotional and important event which occurred last night in this building. With my parliamentary colleague and co-convener of the Parliamentary Friends of Dementia group, Nola Marino, I hosted a very special gathering for an event in conjunction with Childhood Dementia Initiative. We heard firsthand from families about their experiences with this insidious and devastating disease. Their courage and dignity in speaking on the panel that we hosted yesterday was very powerful, very raw and very personal. It was a contribution to this discussion that I think those who were fortunate enough to witness will remember for a very long time to come.</para>
<para>Behind every statistic are real families with heartbreaking stories, fighting each day to give their children the best possible life in the very little time that they will have. The reality is childhood dementia causes a similar number of deaths in childhood as childhood cancers do, yet it receives only a fraction of the attention and funding. It is always very difficult to compare one disease with something that is just as equally devastating to the families and the individual. But this disparity is not just unfair; it's devastating, because, over the last decade, we have seen an amazing turnaround with childhood cancers where we have a 74 per cent survival rate, which is fantastic, and I applaud that. I applaud the doctors, the medical fraternity and the researchers. It's fantastic. But, if you have a child with childhood dementia, your loss is just as devastating no matter whether it's childhood dementia or cancer. The loss to the family and our communities is the same.</para>
<para>When you consider that you raise your children—you teach them to talk and you are excited when they learn to sit up, when they crawl, when they walk, when they are anticipating going to school for the very first time and kindy—but then you have to witness their rapid decline when they lose the ability to speak and eat, it is absolutely devastating. There is so much more for us to do, and that's why we held this function yesterday with Nola Marino and me. It was so that we can raise awareness, because too many people that I talk to have no understanding let alone knowledge that there is such a thing as childhood dementia.</para>
<para>We've raised dementia awareness in this parliament, I'm pleased to say, and I've played a very small part in that. We know how debilitating that is, but then you see and hear from parents. Last night, we had a panel, and we had some very brave parents talking about their experiences. There was one mum who was married. She and her husband had the joy of having three children. It was their youngest child, an eight-month-old, that was first diagnosed with childhood dementia—at eight months. Then it was the second, the middle child, and the eldest child—all three children from that family. Where they were once a happy family of a mum and dad and three children, they now have a mum who is completely dedicated to giving those children the best possible care, but she's doing it alone. Can I just remind people that her grief and her struggles are no different to their dad's, but she's there. To hear her talking about the challenges she has and having very few options to get support was absolutely heart wrenching. We need to do so much more. We need more money from governments for research. We need more researchers to be prepared to do research into this particular disease. But childhood dementia is quite unique.</para>
<para>Last night, the families affected by this disease spoke to us about the rollercoaster of emotions and the challenges and uncertainties that they experience. Their daily lives are consumed by the relentless demands of caring for their children, trying to juggle medical appointments and not really being able to navigate a very complex health system that doesn't have the complete understanding it should have of this insidious disease. That's what they're trying to do. If they're lucky, they have a partner and are still able to have a career. But it's a very exhausting process. Many are a complete loss and feel dazed and at times feel they are aren't living themselves.</para>
<para>I want to thank Cindy, Felicity, Nicole, Peta, Renee and Sam for speaking with us last night. It takes a lot of strength, as I know everyone in this chamber would agree, to come from outside of this place, not being a politician, and talk about something that is so personal and share your grief. From the time of diagnosis, as we know with dementia generally, it's a grieving process for their family and their loved ones. But put yourself in the position of having a six-year-old that you have loved and cherished for six years, and even before that, in anticipation of their birth, being the mother or the father, and ask yourself how that must feel. I can't even imagine what it would be like to lose a child. For those who have one child, it's devastating—and then if you're the parent of two children and then three. What was really beautiful was that they were prepared to share their story and their experience to help others so that their child has not died in vain and won't be forgotten and there will be advancements made in this area.</para>
<para>It was the Albanese government, through health minister Mark Butler, that, in the last budget, funded the <inline font-style="italic">State of childhood dementia in Australia 2024</inline> report, which was fantastic. I know that Minister Butler will be open, as he has been, to meet with these parents and hear their stories. But we need to do more. We need to make sure that these stories are not forgotten. Each one of those parents is looking forward to the opportunity to come back to the Australian parliament to tell their story again and again until more people understand and there's more funding and more support. I am so proud of them. I thank them from my heart, because it means so much and it is so powerful. I can speak in this chamber, but when you hear a parent talking about their anguish, their loss and their love, that is so powerful.</para>
<para>Unfortunately, there is a child born with childhood dementia disorder in this country every three days. And half of all children with dementia die before the age of 10, and 70 per cent of them will die before they reach adulthood. As we know, they die a slow and agonising death, unfortunately without the support that they need. We should never forget these children. For the parents who told the story about their children, we should never forget Caleb, Dylan, Toby, Hudson, Austin and Holly. We heard you, and we do remember you. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Queensland: Community Events</title>
          <page.no>3721</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>20:19</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SCARR</name>
    <name.id>282997</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Well, good on you, Senator Polley, and also good on Nola Marino MP for taking the lead on this. I was not aware of the extent of that issue of childhood dementia before the activities of this week. Congratulations and deep respect to you for that contribution and also for the work which you are doing on a collegiate basis with Nola Marino MP. Thank you very much.</para>
<para>Springfield, where my office is located in South-East Queensland, had its business Oscars last Saturday night. The event was convened by the Greater Springfield Chamber of Commerce, and it was its Marquee Business Awards. I'd like to offer some congratulations. The winners are first. The winner of the lifestyle award was Tash Maree Tours & Events. The winners of the professional services award were P&L Accountants. The winners of the best customer service award were Apar Hair Studio. The media and IT award was won by Purple Bunny Marketing. Congratulations! The education and training award was won by Springfield Anglican College, which is an outstanding educational institution. The financial services award, which I had the opportunity to actually present, had three wonderful entrants: Jet Team Finance, Zest Mortgage Solutions and PSK Private Wealth. The winner was—and there can only be one winner—Jet Team Finance. Congratulations to the Cafe Kalina at Springfield for the hospitality award. The real estate and property maintenance award was won by First National Real Estate Springfield. The outstanding small business award was won by Aquashield Bathroom. The business of the year award and members' choice award was won by Zest Mortgage Solutions. For winning the businessperson of the year award, congratulations to Rebekah Sanfuentes from McNamara Law. The president's award went to Helping Support Minds.</para>
<para>I would like to give my deep congratulations and pay my deep respects to the president of the chamber, Neil Coupland, whose real estate agency, First National Real Estate Springfield, actually won one of the awards. It was one of the first times I've seen Neil being almost speechless. I also congratulate Leila Stewart, the executive officer of the Greater Springfield Chamber of Commerce. Neil describes Leila as their single superstar employee, and she certainly is. Something special has been created by the Greater Springfield Chamber of Commerce, and that's brought about by the executive but also the wonderful businesses who are members of that chamber. Congratulations to everyone. It was a great privilege to be in attendance on Saturday night. Everyone's a winner in the Greater Springfield Chamber of Commerce.</para>
<para>I would like to speak about a remarkable cultural and spiritual event that I attended on Saturday 31 August at St Paul's School at Bald Hills, organised by the BAPS Swaminarayan Hindu community, where we celebrated Janmashtami, marking the birth of Lord Krishna. The event was a vibrant celebration rich in faith, culture and community spirit. The venue was beautifully decorated—and I just want to emphasise that; it was absolutely beautifully decorated—including with scenes from Lord Krishna's life, welcoming families. And there were so many families there who gathered to honour this sacred occasion. What really stood out was the unity and inclusiveness that brought together people of all ages and backgrounds. It was open to the entire community, strengthening the bonds within our wonderful, diverse community.</para>
<para>During the event, I had the privilege of receiving a nadachhadi—excuse my pronunciation—which is a sacred thread, which I'm wearing this evening and haven't taken off since the event. This further deepened my connection to the cultural significance of the day. I'd like to pay my deep respects to the BAPS representatives, Pujya Aarshpurushdas Swami, Pujya Bhaktinidhi Swami, all the BAPS volunteers, members and devotees and also Utsav Sejpal, who coordinated my participation in the event. Congratulations to everyone.</para>
<para>It was great to see the wonderful Councillor Sandy Landers from Bracken Ridge there, as well as two wonderful LNP candidates for the forthcoming Queensland state election: the LNP candidate for Aspley, my good friend Ms Amanda Cooper; and Mr Chris Mangan, who's the LNP candidate for Sandgate. He'll make an absolutely outstanding member for the seat of Sandgate. To all the other community members who were there: congratulations. It was a great event. Congratulations to the BAPS community.</para>
<para>I would like to pay my deep respects to the Rotary Club of Archerfield, of which I am an honorary member, for their very successful annual dinner and charity night at Gambaro's. This is an absolute institution. They raised funds on the night for a wonderful charity called Interplast. During my time as company secretary of a great Queensland company called PanAust Ltd, we worked very closely with Interplast, who assist in facial reconstructions, especially for children in need of those treatments in developing countries. We assisted that charity in Laos and also in PNG. So I'm very familiar with the work of Interplast.</para>
<para>There was a considerable amount of money—tens of thousands of dollars—raised on Saturday night by Archerfield Rotary for the charity. That will go to providing treatment in the Asia-Pacific region, which is a wonderful thing. Special thanks to Lester Drew and Ray Deen, both dear friends of mine, for their work in bringing the event together. To all the attendees of the event: thank you so much for your contribution to what was just a wonderful evening. Thank you to Archerfield Rotary and the broader Archerfield Rotary community for everything that you do for the community.</para>
<para>I would like to congratulate a wonderful Queenslander, Ms Julie Peel, who was successful just this week in being awarded a teaching fellowship from the Schools Plus Teaching Awards. Ms Julie Peel is principal of Milpera State High School in my home state of Queensland. Milpera State High School is one of my favourite places in the whole of Queensland. This is a high school which provides specific educational services designed for refugees and the children of refugee families. They have an outstanding record in terms of the wellbeing of students, the attendance rates of students and school completion rates. It is an amazing environment. Ms Julie Peel is the principal. She provides the leadership and is just outstanding in everything that she does.</para>
<para>But I know Julie would say of this award, this fellowship, which is a great honour which she has received, that she is receiving it on behalf of the Milpera State High School community—the whole community. That's all the teachers, the volunteers, the students and the families of the students in the very special environment they've created at Milpera State High School, which, from my perspective, represents the very best of Australian values. With that, I want to give my heartfelt congratulations once again to Ms Julie Peel, 2024 winner of a teaching fellowship from the Schools Plus Teaching Awards in my home state of Queensland.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Gerard Rennick People First</title>
          <page.no>3722</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>20:28</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RENNICK</name>
    <name.id>283596</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise tonight to speak about the key policies introduced by the People First Party, albeit it's one person. I think it's very important to note that it is a party that actually has some key policies that seek to empower hardworking Australians, the individual, and their families.</para>
<para>If there's one thing I've noticed about politics in this country, it's that we have a three-year cycle of the Punch and Judy show in this chamber, whereby the major parties come in here and criticise each other. Then they'll call an election and spend half of the election campaign being asked, 'When are you going to release your policies?' Finally, about three weeks out from the election, they'll start releasing policies. The election is held, and then they go back into another three-year cycle of the Punch and Judy show.</para>
<para>Let me tell you that, under this party, it's going to be different. In the very first week after my departure from the LNP, I was happy to put out five key policies, and I'm happy to stand by them and to debate them in this chamber or with any other politician in any other media outlet or with the media themselves. I will quote Rob Sitch, from that great show <inline font-style="italic">The Hollowmen</inline>—for some reason it's been forgotten about; it's been surpassed by <inline font-style="italic">Utopia</inline>, but I always thought <inline font-style="italic">The Hollowmen</inline> was the better of the two shows. I well remember the program where he was talking about policies and he came up with this idea that you've got to have a raft of policies. In many ways that's how you would describe the major parties' policies; they're a raft. They're basically drifting around on the ocean with a bamboo pole. There is no rudder or outboard motor powering the Australian people. The Australian people are looking for leadership in politics. They are looking for politicians who have a vision and a way forward as to how their children and themselves are going to get the same opportunities our forefathers gave to us and how they're going to ensure they have a prosperous and comfortable life.</para>
<para>Many Australians are concerned about the direction we are heading in. They are of the view that in the last 40 years we have seen governments sell all the infrastructure they're responsible for—they've privatised that infrastructure. They've walked away from providing essential services and marched into the family home, the classroom, the bedroom, the corporate boardroom and the doctor's waiting room, telling people what to do in their personal lives. We need to reverse that. The process in the last 40 years is that we've effectively nationalised people's private assets and personal wealth, and then gone and privatised public assets by the infrastructure.</para>
<para>My five key policies that I want to promote over the next eight to 10 months of this term are the following. First, I want to lift the tax-free threshold to $40,000. That would give those people who earn up to $40,000 a $3½ thousand tax cut. There is one thing that's always grinded my gears in this country—the fact that low-income earners have to pay tax below the cost of living. These are the people that get out of bed every day and put their nose to the grindstone when in many circumstances it'd be easier to stay in bed or maybe get welfare or give up—and they don't. This country was built by the battlers, and it's those people on low incomes that have to keep going. In all cases, these people are keeping the wheels of industry turning. I started off on a low income myself. I jackarooed; I worked in pubs and bars and picked fruit and whatnot. A lot of that work was often harder than some of the work I did later in my life when I was sitting in an office pushing a pen and shuffling paper. I've never forgotten those people. My first role after I graduated was in public practice. I'd often do the tax returns for these people, and they really relied on getting a tax refund because that was going to be the difference between them getting ahead or falling further behind. We owe it to those people.</para>
<para>We need to call out the Treasury and the way they model the velocity of money, the way they model tax cuts, because they don't assume secondary impacts when modelling tax cuts. That discriminates against tax cuts for low-income earners. Let me assure you; if you give a $1,000 tax cut to someone on $40,000, most of that money will end up in the Treasury coffers within 12 months because those people will go out and spend that money straightaway just to meet the cost of living. I hear some people say, 'Won't that cause inflation?' It'll cause very little inflation for these two reasons. Firstly, elasticity of demand when you're living below the cost of living is very elastic. These people will have to go out and buy things, and they will end up using a credit card to do it. They will use credit and get further into debt just to keep their heads above water. Secondly, who is it that supplies the goods and services in this country? It is the people that get out of bed and put their nose to the grindstone, whether it's workers or small businesses, that actually deliver goods and services. If you cut the tax on the delivery of goods and services, you will increase the supply of goods and services. I don't want to hear any pushback. If anyone wants to debate me on this—that somehow giving a tax cut to working Australians is a bad thing—bring it on. It's not, and we can't afford not to do it.</para>
<para>The second policy that I want to push forward is the fact that we should be paying child care directly to the parents. We have millions of shiftworkers out there. We have nurses and police who work late hours at shiftwork. I know my mum used to come home at 10 o'clock at night and go to bed. She'd get to bed by 10.30 and have to turn around and be up at 5.30 to get back to work at six. They don't have time to necessarily pick their child up at six o'clock at night or drop them off in the morning on their way to work, because the childcare centre isn't open.</para>
<para>We have millions of part-time workers who might work three or four hours a day but pay for 12 hours of child care. Why are we increasing demand on childcare places? To book these places now, often you've got to book a childcare centre for a term or a year to get your child in child care. You're paying for child care often when you don't need it. We have fly-in fly-out workers who might have 10 days rostered on and five days off. That's their weekend, and yet they will have to pay for child care when they don't need it. We have other people who want to work from home and may only need a nanny for a few hours a day. Why do they actually have to take their child to the childcare centre and not let the nanny come to their place? That in itself is creating more stress and time pressures on people that have to meet deadlines. And then we have our farmers who have to drive in and out of work. So we need to provide greater flexibility in child care.</para>
<para>The third thing we need to do is give greater flexibility in terms of superannuation. Superannuation is not working. In 1992, 50 per cent of retirees were on a full pension. Today, 50 per cent of retirees are on a full pension. We have not shifted the dial on reducing the number of retirees on a pension at all, despite the fact that we give $50 billion in tax concessions to the mainly upper 25 per cent of income earners, and the pension costs $54 billion for the bottom 50 per cent on the full pension and the 21 per cent of retirees on a part pension. It is unsustainable. We cannot afford to be paying $30 billion in fees to the white-collar workers in their ivory palaces to manage other people's money. I've spoken about superannuation many times, so I'll touch on that later.</para>
<para>The fourth thing is that there are a number of measures through which I want to pay for these income tax cuts. No. 1 is to remove the duplication of the bureaucrats in the state and federal bureaucracy. No. 2 is that I want to means test the defined benefits scheme. We have over 40,000 retired public servants who get over $75,000 a year. That is estimated by Finance to cost $137 billion. We have 30,000 retired public servants who get between $50,000 and $75,000 a year. That is going to cost the budget over the forward estimates and over the life of the defined benefits scheme $90 billion. Many of these people were on high salaries before they left work. They should have an assets and income test applied to them just like everyone in the private sector. It is ridiculous that multimillionaires are getting gold-plated pensions from the taxpayer, many of whom are on low incomes paying tax above $18,200.</para>
<para>The last policy that I want to talk about is bringing back a public bank. We sold the Commonwealth Bank in 1992 for $8 billion. Today it makes $10 billion a year. We've got branches closing in the regions. We've got a decline in the level of service in those banks. We need to bring back a government insurance office. We've got businesses and people out there in Australia that can't get basic insurance. What we need to do is reform our monetary policy in this country, and the best way to do that is by securing our infrastructure against the need to expand the volume of credit as we have a rise in population. That's not my opinion; that was the opinion of the 1937 banking royal commission.</para>
<para>I look forward to fighting for these policies over the next eight to 10 months.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Gender and Sexual Orientation, Australian Securities and Investments Commission</title>
          <page.no>3724</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>20:39</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ROBERTS</name>
    <name.id>266524</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I note that staff in libraries across Victoria have been given a new LGBTQIA+ instruction called the 'rainbow libraries toolkit', which requires libraries to ask the gender and pronouns of children as young as five. Five! The Allan Labor government launched the toolkit. It advises library staff that adding books on gender diversity to their collections and promoting the drag queen story events to children will make them more LGBTQIA+ friendly. The toolkit advises library staff not to assume the gender pronouns of primary school age children. This is the explanation for it:</para>
<quote><para class="block">It is also important to recognise that, especially for young people, gender identity and sexuality can shift or evolve over time.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Children in particular may want to experiment with different gender expressions through dressing up, and we can support them by avoiding mapping our expectations of gender onto them.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Library staff are told that even if they are "familiar" with a child who visits their library, they should "leave room for them to express a change in their identity", including by prompting them if they still go by the same pronouns.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Checking in casually about their pronouns ("Do you still prefer he/him pronouns?"'; "Do you still go by Sam, or is there something else you'd like me to use?") …</para></quote>
<para>What the hell is going on? When these books—written for children, supposedly—are opened, it's easy to see that they're actually instruction manuals for sex. Who puts gender propaganda into libraries for primary-school-age children to access? Who runs drag queen shows for children? Who talks to children as young as five about their gender identity? Groomers do. The Australian Labor Party does. Who knew that the 'P' in 'ALP' stands for 'perverts'?</para>
<para>The inevitable outcome of this childhood grooming will be an increase in gender dysphoria in children, leading to increased pharmaceutical interventions. Here is what we know about the drugs used in gender dysphoria, commonly called puberty blockers. According to the TGA product assessment for leuprolide, the purpose of the approval is for the treatment of cancer. The drug reduces the production of hormones on which cancer feeds—fair enough, for adults. This reduction in hormones causes 'atrophy of the reproductive organs'. What are the side effects? For DAEN case 816594, 26 July 2024, a female age nine years, side effects included pain and fat necrosis. Fat necrosis, according to the Cleveland Clinic in America, is the death of fat tissue in the breast or other organs. The damaged fat may be replaced with a cyst or scar tissue—nice! DAEN shows that there have been 42 reports of adverse events from leuprolide among children aged 10 or less. Less than half of the reports include age, so the real figure will be much higher.</para>
<para>This drug cost taxpayers $271 for a low-dose and $1,370 for a high-dose prescription. At a time when taxpayers are struggling with the cost of living, why is the Albanese Labor government choosing to spend taxpayers' money on this? The propaganda around this very expensive drug is that these changes are not permanent, and the transgender lobby repeat this as a mantra. It's a lie. The condition that is reversible is precocious puberty, where a child goes into puberty at a very young age. Puberty blockers do indeed prevent that child from going into puberty, until they are removed from the drug, usually at around 11 years of age. The extension of that safety data to any child is the great lie of childhood transgender experimentation. There is no proof that these drugs are safe for a child who is not suffering the raised hormone levels associated with precocious puberty.</para>
<para>This is not my opinion; Britain's National Health Service have changed their guidance on children and puberty blockers, preventing their use for the gender dysphoria on this basis: 'Little is known about the long-term side effects of hormone or puberty blockers in children with gender dysphoria. The effects of bone density in children whose central precocious puberty is arrested with puberty blockers are considered unknown, as they have not been studied.' Why the hell not? Why are these things handed out like confetti and like candy when we don't know their long-term health impacts? That is not responsible. It's criminal. It's inhumane.</para>
<para>A groundbreaking documentary from the state-run television channel in Sweden has revealed a shocking case of bone damage in one child, Leo. He's one of 13 children treated at the Karolinska University Hospital who are known to have suffered catastrophic injuries from puberty blockers. Their ailments include liver damage, mental health problems, skeletal damage and a failure to grow. From that investigation:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Leo is in pain most of the time. His back hurts badly when he stands up or walks. It is a hard life for a teenager, and he has no idea if the agony will ever go away.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">…   …   …</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">He has spinal fractures and a condition called osteopenia, which weakens the bones, making them more liable to break. It is a disease that you often see in people aged 60 or 70 and is almost impossible to reverse.</para></quote>
<para>The overwhelming evidence is that this atrophy, this damage to the reproductive organs of children, is permanent. We are administering this to children under 10, and it's sterilising them. It's this evidence that has seen 25 American states ban the pharmaceutical mutilation of children.</para>
<para>Likewise, the transgender lobby will tell you that a cross-gender-identifying child has a greater risk of suicide without puberty blockers. A comprehensive literature review published in the <inline font-style="italic">Journal of the Endocrine </inline><inline font-style="italic">Society</inline> found that there was no statistical signal that suicides increase or decrease from pharmaceutical gender intervention. So, before the Munchausen-by-proxy brigade and the lining-their-pockets brigade come after me, I suggest you take a long, hard look at yourselves. In Senate estimates hearings I asked the TGA if they had conducted safety testing and approved these drugs for use in children, and I was advised they had. I have a motion in the list for tomorrow calling for the release of that data, which is not on the TGA website.</para>
<para>In good conscience, One Nation cannot support the continued harming of our children for a condition that can be treated successfully with counselling and love. One Nation will continue to defend the family and children from the perversions of the Labor Party and, bizarrely, from Victorian librarians.</para>
<para>Tonight I ask whether this Senate can have confidence in the integrity and competency of investigations of the Australian Securities and Investments Commission, ASIC. It was only a few months ago that the Senate Economics References Committee handed down a scandalous inquiry report which documented how ASIC has comprehensively failed the Australian people. Now further information has come to light which shows ASIC has once again failed to protect everyday Australians. This failure is ASIC's criminal investigation into a precious metal dealership, ABC Bullion, that occurred between July 2022 and August 2023.</para>
<para>Over the course of 13 months, ASIC spent approximately $300,000 to investigate serious allegations regarding ABC Bullion's storage services, including whether the physical gold and silver bullion of Australian investors was missing. ASIC closed its investigation on 10 August 2023, stating it would take no further action. This is a decision I disagree with on the basis of information I have at hand, and it's troubling that the current Prime Minister, Anthony Albanese, took the unprecedented step of holding a national press conference with the directors of ABC Bullion and its parent company, Pallion Group, and providing them an explicit personal endorsement. This press conference occurred while the ASIC investigation into possible fraud was underway.</para>
<para>Pallion is Australia's third-largest private company, and I'm sure that carries weight with ASIC and the office of the Prime Minister. This endorsement was despite the Australian Taxation Office's highly publicised pursuit of Pallion over the past decade. This tax office investigation cost millions of dollars and covered alleged involvement in an elaborate GST fraud scheme and an illegal phoenixing activity. This saw the tax office succeed in a legal bid to appoint liquidators to the phoenix Pallion group while continuing to pursue the current Pallion entity. The Prime Minister endorsed a company that was under two separate government investigations from ASIC and the ATO, both of which should rightly have been known to the office of the Prime Minister.</para>
<para>Why would the Prime Minister endorse a company under two government investigations? Recently, independent investigators have found more troubling information about the millions ABC are charging mum-and-dad investors to hold bullion in their secure facility in Marrickville. Firstly, ASIC did not physically inspect any ABC Bullion or Pallion Group facility for 9½ months, providing ample opportunity for the Prime Minister's mates to physically alter the evidence.</para>
<para>Secondly, on 31 July 2022, a mere 3½ weeks after the ASIC investigators tipped off ABC Bullion that it was under investigation, ABC Bullion moved an undisclosed quantity of physical bullion from a tiny room in the Sydney CBD to an industrial building located in Marrickville. This building did not then and does not now have a valid occupation certificate, meaning that ABC Bullion and its sister company, Pallion Equipment, have been, under New South Wales law, illegally occupying a building for more than two years. In the past month Inner West Council have officially declared this occupation to be, in their words, 'unlawful'.</para>
<para>Thirdly, this unlawful occupation was never disclosed to ABC Bullion's insurers, despite it being required under law. Such nondisclosure provides the insurer with a legal right to void any insurance contract, thus exposing investors to significant risk without their knowledge.</para>
<para>In summary, ASIC investigated the Prime Minister's mates and gave them a clean bill of health, even though easily identifiable illegal activity was occurring under their nose. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Chile, New South Wales: Local Government Elections</title>
          <page.no>3726</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>20:49</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHOEBRIDGE</name>
    <name.id>169119</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Tomorrow, 11 September, marks 51 years since the CIA-backed military coup in Chile. This violent coup deposed the democratically elected government of President Salvador Allende and paved the way for 17 years of dictatorship under General Augusto Pinochet. What followed was 17 years of enforced disappearances and human rights abuses that inspired military takeovers across Latin America and turned Chile into a laboratory of state violence and unrestricted capitalism—17 years where social security was at the mercy of investment and profitability. Ecosystems were plundered for profit. Communities went without water to feed deregulated agribusiness. Those who challenged this were met with the heavy hand of the state.</para>
<para>History has shown that the ultra-right-wing experiment in Chile turned the country into one of the most unequal in the world, with its cruel legacy remaining a source of trauma and heartache for millions of Chileans, including many who live in my home state of New South Wales. Peter Kornbluh, a senior analyst at the National Security Archive in Washington, warns us that contemporary denialism about the atrocities of the Pinochet regime only strengthens the rise of the far right, calling the regime 'a Rosetta Stone for the discussion over the threat of authoritarianism versus the sanctity of democracy'.</para>
<para>This was a Rosetta Stone that the Australian government had a role in carving. Three years ago, the US government declassified previously secret documents that showed how the Australian Secret Intelligence Service opened a base in Santiago in 1971 to assist the CIA's destabilisation of the Chilean government ahead of the coup. This work included handling CIA-recruited Chilean assets in Santiago and filing intelligence reports to CIA headquarters.</para>
<para>More recently, the Albanese government has come under sustained criticism from the Australian Chilean community for its failure to progress the extradition of Adriana Rivas. Ms Rivas is charged in Chile with kidnapping and torture offences against seven political dissidents during the dictatorship. She's lived in Sydney for the past four decades and was first arrested at Chile's request in 2019. The High Court cleared the way for extradition to Chile in 2022, but, for reasons known only to the Albanese government, Ms Rivas still remains in Australia. Surely, as part recompense for Australia's past disgraceful role, it should expedite this request.</para>
<para>I want to take this moment to recognise not only the tortured, the silenced, the disappeared and the dead but also those in the Chilean community here who are yet to experience justice for themselves and their families and to recognise that democracy is fragile and must be protected, sometimes from the very countries we otherwise consider our friends.</para>
<para>I want to acknowledge just some of the 377 Greens council candidates who are running in some 61 council elections across New South Wales this coming weekend. The first I'd like to note is, indeed, Councillor Kym Chapple. I know Kym because I work with her. I have the privilege of working with Kym, an extraordinarily talented councillor on Randwick City Council in her first term.</para>
<para>Just some of her local achievements include her being a South Maroubra Nippers parent, working on the P&C at the local public school and working as a Maroubra United soccer mum. She has also stood with the community against tree removal at Maroubra Reservoir and delivered, finally, a connecting path to South Maroubra Surf Club. She has protected Broadarrow Reserve from an intensive car park proposal, has prioritised accessibility in the Maroubra Junction master plan, has a plan to have wheelchair and pram access to Malabar Headland from south Maroubra and has been bringing forward the renewal of the Maroubra Beach playground. She has ensured that the new water heaters for the Des Renford Leisure Centre will be powered by renewable energy. She fought to retain the planned Maroubra Road cycleway to deliver key connectivity and, for dog walkers, improved access to the rifle range—all of that while being a mum of two small kids, having a very, very busy day job and always being accessible to her local residents. This is an extraordinary achievement in her first term.</para>
<para>I'd also like to acknowledge two councillors from my local council who are up for re-election, councillors Grieve and Robertson, at Woollahra Municipal Council. I know Councillor Grieve because I was elected with her to Woollahra Municipal Council. They've delivered extraordinary achievements: an urban forest strategy to deliver some 30 per cent more canopy cover, a $15 million investment in new street trees over the next 20 years and canopy controls across the municipality. They introduced ward meetings to enhance transparency and better communications between residents.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>296331</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Your time has expired, Senator Shoebridge.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Shoebridge</name>
    <name.id>169119</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I was told I had 10 minutes.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>296331</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>No, five. The clock has been ticking down from five since you stood up. You were on the five-minute list. There is a protocol.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>296331</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Well, he did not debate it with us and did not inform anybody else. The protocol is that, if you are on the five-minute list and you're not here, you go to the bottom of the list, even if it's after the 10-minute people, and you get five minutes.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>296331</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>That is a written down and agreed protocol. Thank you, Senator Shoebridge.</para>
<para>Senate adjourned at 20:54</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
  </chamber.xscript>
</hansard>