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  <session.header>
    <date>2022-10-25</date>
    <parliament.no>2</parliament.no>
    <session.no>1</session.no>
    <period.no>0</period.no>
    <chamber>Senate</chamber>
    <page.no>0</page.no>
    <proof>1</proof>
  </session.header>
  <chamber.xscript>
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          <span class="HPS-SODJobDate">
            <span style="font-weight:bold;" />
            <a href="Chamber" type="">Tuesday, 25 October 2022</a>
          </span>
        </p>
        <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
          <span class="HPS-Normal">
            <span style="font-weight:bold;">The PRESIDENT (Senator </span>
            <span style="font-weight:bold;">the Hon. </span>
            <span style="font-weight:bold;">Sue Lines</span>
            <span style="font-weight:bold;">)</span> took the chair at 12:00, made an acknowledgement of country and read prayers.</span>
        </p>
      </body>
    </business.start>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>PRIVILEGE</title>
        <page.no>1</page.no>
        <type>PRIVILEGE</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Thorpe, Senator Lidia</title>
          <page.no>1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:01</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I wish to make a statement on a matter of privilege. By letter dated 24 October 2022, Senator Thorpe has raised an issue of privilege—the question: whether her failure to declare a friendship with Mr Dean Martin in hearings or meetings of the Joint Committee on Law Enforcement amounted to an improper interference with the work of the committee. Senator Thorpe has asked that the matter be referred to the Standing Committee of Privileges for investigation as a possible contempt. It is unusual for a senator to seek to self-refer a matter to the Privileges Committee. Senator Thorpe's letter does not go to her reasons for doing so and does not provide additional detail about the allegations or her responses to them. Senators would be aware of the media reports on the matter.</para>
<para>Where a matter of privilege is raised, my role is to determine whether it should have precedence in debate. In doing so, I am guided by the Senate's privileges resolutions, which seek to preserve the Senate's contempt powers for matters involving substantial obstruction to the Senate and its committees or to senators performing their duties. Privilege resolution No. 6 provides guidance on the types of acts which may be treated as a contempt and, relevantly, provides that a person shall not improperly interfere with the free exercise by a committee of its authority. The Senate has also declared that a senator shall not sit on a committee if the senator has a conflict of interest in relation to the committee. I have, therefore, concluded that the matter meets the criteria I am required to consider.</para>
<para>The usual practice, when allegations of misconduct arise in committees, is to see that the allegations have first been investigated by the committee concerned. There are some advantages in doing so. That committee will have access to relevant records and its members will generally be well-placed to determine whether the alleged conduct involved, or risked, substantial interference with the committee's work.</para>
<para>While I have considered writing to the joint committee, I have concluded that there are some mitigating factors—in particular, the committee in question was a committee of the previous parliament, with different membership and a different chair. As I have noted, it is also unusual for a senator to seek to self-refer a matter of privilege. In those circumstances, I have concluded that the Senate should be given the earliest opportunity to determine whether the matter warrants investigation by the Privileges Committee. If the Senate refers the matter to the Privileges Committee, no doubt it will follow its usual practice of seeking submissions from those affected by the allegations, which will necessarily require it to seek information from Senator Thorpe and from the joint committee.</para>
<para>For completeness, I also remind the Senate that I was a member of the joint committee during the last parliament. I can assure senators that that has not influenced my determination in this matter. I have, therefore, determined that it would be appropriate to grant the matter precedence as a matter of privilege. I table the correspondence and call on Senator Thorpe to give notice of a motion. Senator Chisholm?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:05</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CHISHOLM</name>
    <name.id>39801</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to move a motion, which has been circulated in the chamber, to refer this matter to the Committee of Privileges.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CHISHOLM</name>
    <name.id>39801</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) The Senate notes:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) the matters canvassed in the media regarding a possible conflict of interest between an undeclared personal relationship of Senator Thorpe and her role while a member of the Joint Committee on Law Enforcement; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) the importance of maintaining the integrity of parliamentary committees.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) The following matter be referred to the Standing Committee on Privileges for inquiry and report, whether Senator Thorpe's failure to declare the relationship:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) obstructed the work of the Joint Committee on Law Enforcement;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) if so, whether this amounted to an improper interference with the work of the committee; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) whether any contempt was committed in this regard.</para></quote>
<para>I thank the President for her ruling and would like to acknowledge Senator Thorpe's intention to refer herself to the Senate Privileges Committee. The government considers it appropriate to refer this matter to the Privileges Committee to inquire into the conduct of Senator Thorpe, given the importance of ensuring that the integrity of parliamentary committees is maintained.</para>
<para>On Thursday 20 October, it was reported that Senator Thorpe may have been conflicted while sitting as a member of the Joint Committee on Law Enforcement. The nature of this conflict has been outlined in media reports and has been addressed in statements by both Senator Thorpe and Mr Bandt, as the Leader of the Greens. The publicly known facts of this matter have brought into question the potentially serious implications of Senator Thorpe's conflict, including the possibility that the work of the Joint Committee on Law Enforcement has been obstructed. This is particularly due to the sensitive nature of what the Joint Committee on Law Enforcement looks at and the agencies it oversees, such as the AFP. Both play such an important role in keeping Australians safe.</para>
<para>As the Prime Minister has said, these are concerning revelations and Australians are entitled to believe that the parliament's oversight processes over our legal system will be maintained in a way that ensures integrity and ensures that any information which is given there is kept on a confidential basis. The Prime Minister has also said that the Leader of the Greens, Mr Bandt, must give a full explanation of the exact circumstances here, including what he or his office knew and, if he wasn't informed, why that was the case, given that his office was aware.</para>
<para>It is important for the function of our democracy that Australians trust the integrity of this parliament and our parliamentary committees. It is also important for Australians to have the trust that members of this parliament will act with integrity. Where that integrity has been brought into question, it is contingent on all of us to ensure that matters are referred to the appropriate bodies for inquiry, as is the case with this matter. Thank you.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:07</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, President, for your ruling and statement made just before. Confidence in the integrity of the operations of the parliament is of supreme importance; confidence in the operation of this Senate chamber is of supreme importance; and confidence in the operation of our Senate committees is, equally, of supreme importance. A key pillar in maintaining confidence in the conduct of this parliament, its chambers and its committees is the disclosure obligations placed upon all of us. Those disclosure obligations seek to ensure that people can have confidence that each of us acts with integrity in relation to those we represent, the issues before us and the consideration of serious matters. Those disclosure obligations matter all of the time, completely; but they matter in supreme importance when it comes to sensitive committees, sensitive information and matters such as this, that can go to law enforcement operations.</para>
<para>As you have acknowledged, and as Senator Chisholm—who I thank for moving this motion—has acknowledged, Senator Thorpe has disclosed now, following media reports, that she was in a relationship with a known former member of the Rebels bikie gang. During that time, she was also a member of the Joint Committee on Law Enforcement. As has been reported, in August 2021 that committee concluded a review of an amendment to reinforce the legality of the Australian Criminal Intelligence Commission's powers to conduct special operations and investigations, which, in July 2020, established a special operation on outlaw motorcycle gangs. In its report, the committee noted that the ACIC had offered to provide detail on the importance of evidence obtained through its exercise of coercive powers in tackling serious and organised crime, including evidence taken in camera. There are clearly questions that need answering, and therefore it is most appropriate that the Standing Committee of Privileges examine whether Senator Thorpe's failure to declare the relationship obstructed the work of the Joint Committee on Law Enforcement; if so, whether this amounted to improper interference with the work of the committee; and whether any contempt was committed in this regard.</para>
<para>The allegations are serious ones, and the work of this committee is of paramount importance now in upholding confidence in the integrity of the parliament and of its committees. The freedom of individual members of parliament to perform their duties on behalf of the people they represent and the need for them to be seen to be free of any improper external influence are of fundamental importance. Matters such as these go directly to the central purpose of the law of parliamentary privilege, which is to protect the integrity of proceedings in parliament.</para>
<para>I do also note the references Senator Chisholm made to the fact that Mr Bandt equally owes some explanation for the operations within his office: when his office were advised and informed, and the failure for steps to have been taken until this became a matter of media and public interest. Those are matters that Mr Bandt should be forthcoming with, as should Senator Thorpe in her public explanations. The opposition strongly supports this referral.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:11</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator THORPE</name>
    <name.id>280304</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I wish to make a statement regarding the recent reports written about me and Mr Martin in the media. Mr Martin and I met through black activism and briefly dated. We remain friends and have collaborated on our shared interest: advocating for the rights of First Nations people. All confidential information I received as part of the Parliamentary Joint Committee on Law Enforcement was treated in confidence. I strongly reject any suggestion that I would do anything other than comply with the committee's requirements, and I note that no-one has offered any evidence to the contrary. However, I accept that I should have disclosed this connection with Mr Martin to my leader and also to the joint committee on law enforcement, of which I was a member. In light of this, last week I resigned as the deputy leader in the Senate.</para>
<para>Thank you to all who have sent messages of love and solidarity. The support and understanding have been overwhelming. My ancestors, my family, my elders, my community and the allyship out there are what maintains my strength—my strength to continue to be here. I wouldn't be here without those people I mentioned and I couldn't do it without those people I mentioned. That's why I'm here. I'm not going anywhere, especially while we don't have a treaty in this country, which I will continue to fight for. Having now given this explanation to the Senate, I will turn my focus to my important portfolio work, especially fighting for First Nations justice. Thank you.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:13</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ROBERTS</name>
    <name.id>266524</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek to contribute to the debate. We just heard from Senator Lidia Thorpe, but we need much, much more. She has established a pattern, through her behaviour in this chamber, of disrespect to the people, disrespect to the parliament and disrespect to the Senate. I can remember her recent swearing in: disrespect to the Queen, disrespect to the parliament, disrespect to the people. She wants to be an infiltrator. The Greens seem to forget our supreme governing instrument is not a monarch; it is the people's Constitution.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Roberts, your contribution needs be around the motion.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ROBERTS</name>
    <name.id>266524</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>That's what I am getting to.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I am not suggesting; I am directing you to be relevant to the motion, Senator Roberts.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ROBERTS</name>
    <name.id>266524</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Her many statements and her ill-tempered behaviour in this chamber require, I believe, much more—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Roberts, I remind you that Senator Chisholm's motion, which I understand was circulated throughout the chamber, deals with a reference to the Privileges Committee, and that's what your remarks need to be about.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ROBERTS</name>
    <name.id>266524</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>We support the reference to the Privileges Committee that Senator Chisholm moved and we seek much more, because we believe Senator Thorpe needs to account for her behaviour in this chamber. We will be seeking to hold her accountable for that.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>3</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Tabling</title>
          <page.no>3</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>3</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Meeting</title>
          <page.no>3</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:16</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I remind senators that the question may be put on any proposal at the request of any senator.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BILLS</title>
        <page.no>4</page.no>
        <type>BILLS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Fair Work Amendment (Paid Family and Domestic Violence Leave) Bill 2022</title>
          <page.no>4</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
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            <a href="r6882" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Fair Work Amendment (Paid Family and Domestic Violence Leave) Bill 2022</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>4</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:16</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CASH</name>
    <name.id>I0M</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I am in continuation. They may have been unable to access such entitlement unless it is provided in their agreement. Cognisant of this, in December 2018, the former coalition government passed historic legislation enshrining five days unpaid family and domestic violence leave in the National Employment Standards. The former coalition government's reforms matched the decision of the Fair Work Commission for award reliant employees. Reducing this complexity was welcomed by and has been beneficial for businesses, as it reduced the time that businesses spend having to ensure the appropriate allocation of leave.</para>
<para>In May 2022, the Fair Work Commission handed down its decision, recommending 10 days paid family and domestic violence leave for award employees. The Fair Work Commission's decision was reached after consideration of evidence, and was based on the input and advocacy of a range of unions and employer representative bodies. In its decision, the Fair Work Commission recommended inter alia (1) full-time employees and, on a pro rata basis, part-time employees, should be entitled to 10 days paid family and domestic violence leave per year but that this should not extend to casual employees; (2) the entitlement should accrue progressively across the year in the same way as personal or carer's leave accrues under the National Employment Standards, not up-front; and (3) the entitlement should operate on the basis that it is paid at the employee's base rate of pay as defined in section 16 of the Fair Work Act, not at the full rate of pay. Consistent with the decision of the former coalition government, the Fair Work Commission's entitlement should be enshrined in the National Employment Standards to ensure, as far as possible, consistency in entitlements for employees in the national system and to reduce complexity for business.</para>
<para>The bill before us goes beyond the model recommended by the independent Fair Work Commission and implements much of the claims made by the ACTU during the hearing into the matter. There is a need to recognise that many business stakeholders, while supporting the Fair Work Commission's decision and the enshrining of that model in the National Employment Standards have raised concerns in relation to the areas that differ in the government's bill from the Fair Work Commission model. The government's legislation goes further than the Fair Work Commission's model in the proposed way: (1) it provides 10 days of paid family and domestic violence leave in a 12-month period for casual employees; (2) in relation to the accrual, employees would gain 10 days of paid family and domestic violence leave from the commencement date of 1 February 2023, rather than having it accrue like other leave entitlements; and (3) it provides for employees to access paid family and domestic violence leave at their full rate of pay for the hours they would have worked had they not taken the leave, as opposed to their base rate of pay.</para>
<para>In relation to these issues, the Fair Work Commission considered all the issues proposed in this bill. Many, as I said, were put forward by the ACTU. In reaching its decision, the Fair Work Commission clearly did not support the breadth of the ACTU proposal; in fact, in its decision found against them. The full bench stated:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Compared to the ACTU claim, the provisional model term provides better alignment with existing NES entitlements and will have less impact on business in terms of employment costs and the regulatory burden.</para></quote>
<para>I will now turn to where this bill differs from the proposed model put forward by the Fair Work Commission. In relation to the accrual of leave, the Fair Work Commission said that the entitlement of 10 days paid family and domestic violence leave per year should accrue progressively during a year of service in the same way as for personal or carer's leave under the National Employment Standards.</para>
<para>In relation to the extension to casual employees of the 10 days of paid family and domestic violence leave in a 12-month period, the Fair Work Commission did not recommend this as the National Employment Standards do not extend paid leave to casuals. The Fair Work Commission also said that the Fair Work Act provides no precedent, nor a model, for a workable scheme for the provision of paid leave of any type to casual employees. There are significant operational difficulties in extending paid family and domestic violence leave to casuals, as noted by the independent Fair Work Commission and even acknowledged by the ACTU during the hearings. In fact, the ACTU said this:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The ACTU accepts that there are some operational challenges associated with extending paid FDV leave to casuals, including in relation to those casual employees whose hours of work are genuinely uncertain.</para></quote>
<para>What the Fair Work Commission said in relation to casuals is extremely important to note. This is because the Labor government is fundamentally changing the way the Fair Work Act deals with paid leave and casual employees. As the Fair Work Commission said, the Fair Work Act provides no precedent, nor a model, for a workable scheme for the provision of paid leave of any type to casual employees.</para>
<para>Casual workers are often paid a casual loading to compensate them for the lack of entitlements they receive, such as holiday pay and sick leave. Casual loading is extra money paid to casual workers over and above the normal hourly rate that full-timers or part-timers get paid in the same job. Even the ACTU acknowledged that there are significant operational difficulties in extending paid family and domestic violence leave to casuals, as noted by the Fair Work Commission decision.</para>
<para>In relation to the rate of pay, the independent Fair Work Commission—and this is important because, again, this is the independent Fair Work Commission that conducted hearings into this matter and have made their own comments in relation to the model that they have put forward—have stated it should be based upon the employee's base rate of pay, not their full rate of pay, in the same fashion that the National Employment Standards paid leave entitlement operates. Again, the independent Fair Work Commission itself contended it would be overly disruptive to the integrity of the safety net if it were to depart from the way all other paid leave entitlements operate which the National Employment Standards provide. The Fair Work Commission also noted that the Fair Work Act applies this rationale even to needs based leave entitlements, such as personal or carer's leave.</para>
<para>In that respect, concerns have been raised by businesses and employers. Businesses and employer stakeholders, in the main, limited their support to the terms set out by the independent Fair Work Commission in their model for paid domestic and family violence leave. In other words, they agree to the enshrining of 10 days of paid family and domestic violence leave in the National Employment Standards to ensure a consistency of entitlements for employees. They have, however—and this was articulated through the committee process but also at the hearings undertaken by the independent Fair Work Commission—raised significant concerns about the Labor government's departure from the independent Fair Work Commission's proposed model, which, as I have indicated, goes much further than the independent Fair Work Commission's model and, in effect, picks up the claims put forward, albeit dismissed by the independent Fair Work Commission, by the ACTU.</para>
<para>The Ai Group states:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The proposed legislation departs from the carefully considered approach proposed by the Commission in various ways that undermine its workability and reasonableness. It instead adopts elements similar to the ACTU proposal that the Commission had rejected.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill should be amended to reflect the sensible and considered views of the Commission.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Unlike the approach adopted in the proposed legislation, the Commission envisaged that the new 10-day entitlement should apply to permanent employees rather than casuals; be calculated on a pro-rata basis for part-time workers; and should accrue progressively during an employee's first year of employment unless an employer agreed to grant it in advance.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Commission also proposed that employees should be paid their base rate of pay when accessing the leave. This is the approach taken when an employee accesses personal / carer's leave. The Bill would instead require employers to pay employees amounts including penalty rates, overtime rates and various allowances when they access the leave.</para></quote>
<para>In summation, the Ai Group says this:</para>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill will be much more costly for employers than the approach proposed by the Commission and there are significant questions about how the rate of pay that must be provided to an employee could even be calculated in practice.</para></quote>
<para>The Australian Chamber of Commerce and Industry, which represent, in particular, small and family businesses throughout Australia, raised similar concerns to the Ai Group. Again, they are more than happy to adopt the model put in place by the Fair Work Commission. They, in particular, noted that family and domestic violence leave should accrue progressively but not accumulate from year to year. They said that providing paid leave upfront will have practical consequences, in particular for small and medium-size businesses with limited cash flow and cash reserves.</para>
<para>Then we have the Council of Small Business Organisations Australia, which, in particular, wanted the needs of all micro and small businesses considered by the government. They said that many small businesses do not possess the requisite knowledge, resources and expertise to provide support to their workers at the very time when they are reaching out for help. We need to be mindful of how small business owners will work through compliance in these situations and provide them with the appropriate information and support where and if required.</para>
<para>As we know, the bill was canvassed in detail at a Senate inquiry. In terms of the outcome of that Senate inquiry, coalition senators did provide additional comments. Those additional comments very much went to the areas of the bill where the Labor government has accepted the ACTU's claims and has gone beyond the decision of the Fair Work Commission. Obviously, we will explore this in further detail during the committee stage.</para>
<para>What I therefore propose to do, and what I do foreshadow, is that the coalition will move a second reading amendment. Again, the coalition notes the rationale provided by the independent Fair Work Commission in handing down its model for 10 days paid family and domestic violence leave. But, at the same time, we also acknowledge the concerns raised by businesses and employers, and, in particular, by small and family businesses around the country in relation to the provisions of the bill that go beyond the Fair Work Commission's recommended model. These issues must be worked through with employers, in particular small business employers, prior to the commencement of this new entitlement. I move the second reading amendment on sheet 1646:</para>
<quote><para class="block">At the end of the motion, add ", but the Senate:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) notes that employers may become aware that an employee is experiencing family and domestic violence when accessing paid family and domestic violence leave; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) calls on the Government to:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) publish clear and comprehensive guidance to assist employers in understanding any obligations that they may have to inform authorities that an employee is experiencing family and domestic violence,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) clarify its intent regarding whether perpetrators are able to access paid family and domestic violence leave,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(iii) provide greater details about the impact of the introduction of paid family and domestic violence leave on small and family businesses, particularly those that employ casual workers, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(iv) provide resources to ensure that small and family businesses are not:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(A) adversely affected by the administration of the scheme, or</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(B) worse off financially".</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:30</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATERS</name>
    <name.id>192970</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to support the Fair Work Amendment (Paid Family and Domestic Violence Leave) Bill 2022. The Greens have been calling for paid family and domestic violence leave for years. We know that it helps victims-survivors, who are predominantly women, to escape abusive relationships, protect themselves and their children and rebuild their lives. Access to this leave could quite literally save their lives. Without a paid leave entitlement, taking the time needed to escape could cost a victim-survivor their job. Without a job, they can't afford to escape or recover. No-one should have to choose between their safety and their job.</para>
<para>The current scheme of five days unpaid domestic and family violence leave was a welcome recognition that family and domestic violence affects someone in most workplaces, but unpaid leave was never adequate. It put women at financial risk and, worse, a drop in income could be a red flag to their abuser and put them at further risk of violence. Paid domestic and family violence leave is the best way to support employees to manage the impact of their abuse, to end the violence, to keep their kids safe, to recover and to keep them employed. We commend the government for extending paid leave entitlements to casuals and making it available in full for all employees, so they can process and access paid leave when they need it, or when the opportunity to escape arises.</para>
<para>I flag that we will be moving some minor amendments to ensure that the bill covers the full scope of activities that a victim-survivor needs to undertake to be safe and secure, and we will also be moving some other technical and relatively minor amendments. I understand that the government may not be of a mind to support these amendments, but we urge them to do so and to consider these proposals in any future review of the bill.</para>
<para>In relation to evidentiary requirements, as the minister outlined, the bill doesn't change the existing provisions of the Fair Work Act about evidence, including not changing the confidentiality of any information provided by employees. The burden of producing sensitive evidence of violence to your boss or to HR can be a deterrent to employees and can allow employers to make it difficult to access leave. The simple and horrifying fact is that most workplaces have at least one employee who is experiencing family and domestic violence. There is a lot of work to be done at both a societal and a workplace level to destigmatise disclosing abuse and to strengthen the supports that are available.</para>
<para>Employees must have confidence that their employer will support them if they disclose and will respect and protect their privacy. Without these assurances, employees will be reluctant to access leave that could save their lives. Given the stigma that is still attached to disclosure, a supportive workplace culture should start from a position of believing an employee who has taken the brave step of asking for family and domestic violence leave. If evidence is requested, employers should be flexible about what evidence they will accept and have a clear process to protect the privacy of their employee.</para>
<para>The Australian Greens do recognise the cost implications of introducing a paid leave scheme and that this can have a significant impact for a small business. But the reality is that small business is already managing the impact of family and domestic violence on staff: those experiencing violence, those covering their shifts as they take the leave needed to escape and recover and staff who leave the business because it doesn't offer them the necessary support. The experience of employers who are currently voluntarily offering paid leave has been that the financial impacts are minimal but the positive benefits, in terms of staff morale and retention, are significant. The Greens support the government providing resources, training and support to small business to assist them to implement paid family and domestic violence leave provisions, and for that to be reflected in the upcoming budget. The impacts on small business could and should be considered as part of the review of the operation of this bill so we can identify any ways to break down barriers to accessing leave.</para>
<para>I want to make an additional point: leaving an abusive relationship takes time. It often takes many attempts; it takes many hours and there are estimates that it takes around $18,000 to escape. Family and criminal law proceedings can be lengthy, and staying safe and recovering from trauma is a very long project. Ten days paid leave will not always be enough. Best practice is to provide unlimited leave, or at least 14 days, and I note that the New South Wales public sector is now offering 20 days of paid leave. I'll be moving an amendment to provide four additional unpaid days of family and domestic violence leave in addition to the 10 paid leave days for those who need that extra time to keep themselves and their children safe. Again, I flag that I don't imagine there will be support for that amendment, but it's an important issue that should be discussed both here and in any subsequent review of this bill.</para>
<para>Now, we heard concerns that employees who disclose family and domestic violence at work could be discriminated against by losing their job or losing hours of work. This must be addressed. I will also be moving an amendment to the bill to protect employees who disclose family and domestic violence or who seek leave from unfair dismissal because of that disclosure.</para>
<para>Finally, the paid family and domestic violence leave scheme will only succeed if the services that are needed to support victims-survivors and employers working with the scheme have the funding to meet demand. Paid family and domestic violence leave will provide time to seek help, but many of the services that women are seeking help from already have to turn people away because they simply don't have the staff to take on additional cases because they don't have the funding for the staff or the funding for the beds.</para>
<para>Employers need to know that they can refer employees who've disclosed family and domestic violence to services that will pick up the phone, that have a bed available if they need it. So I foreshadow that I will be moving a second reading amendment that acknowledges this, and that—again, for the umpteenth time in this place—calls on the government to provide adequate funding to frontline services in the budget so that everyone who reaches out for help can receive help. We know that means $1 billion a year to frontline response and prevention services.</para>
<para>We also need to lift income support payments so women without work have the financial security to leave abusive relationships, and we desperately need to address the housing crisis so women fleeing abuse can find somewhere to live. This bill is a huge step in the right direction, and it's the culmination of many years of advocacy by unions and by women's organisations. The Greens have long supported paid family and domestic violence leave, and we are delighted to support this bill. We hope that our amendments to further strengthen the scheme succeed. If they don't succeed today then we'll be supporting a review of this bill to look at additional ways to ensure that employees are given the lifeline they need to escape violence and to start to rebuild their lives.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:38</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GREEN</name>
    <name.id>259819</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak in support of the Fair Work Amendment (Paid Family and Domestic Violence Leave) Bill 2022, and making it the law of the land. I'm incredibly proud that the Labor government has prioritised this legislation.</para>
<para>I want to start my speech by talking to survivors—particularly, in this instance, to parents. In my first speech in this place I spoke about my mum. I said then, and I say now, that I wouldn't be here today without her and her sacrifices. In my first speech I spoke about how mum protected us. I told the story of the night that we left, how she walked us the long way around the block while explaining to me, as a very young child, that this way we wouldn't be seen by the man that we were fleeing. This was the first night that we left, but we went back. It took 10 more years before we left for good. I don't know but I can only guess how hard that must have been for her, explaining to her young daughter and her son in a stroller something so painful and complex in a way that we could digest. I have no memory of the moments before that conversation on the street. I recall feeling safer there with her in the dark than inside of our home.</para>
<para>Finding strategies to protect your children from the ugliness of family violence is a trauma we don't measure or account for. It is hard to measure the trauma felt by children who learn too early in life what it feels like to be unsafe in their own home. Mother-victims find narratives for their children in their best efforts to help them understand. It is a delicate narrative to tell, one that works hard to comfort them and at the same time instructs them on what is okay as they move out into the adult world. For a victim-survivor, this is a lot to carry—to be protecting yourself, your children, and finding a way to talk about it that can explain what is happening right now but also what will make sense in the future. It is just an impossible feat.</para>
<para>Those who are lucky enough to build a life beyond the abuse have the unenviable task of both starting from scratch and explaining what happened in a way that kids can understand throughout their stages of development. It is hard and often lonely, unenviable work. In the words of the excellent First Nations Queenslander Thelma Plum, in a song from her <inline font-style="italic">Better in Black</inline> album, 'She really made the best of it.'</para>
<para>What victims need when building a life out of abuse is security. This proposal, originally a union claim in the workplace to provide paid domestic violence leave, provides that security to survivors. It tells survivors that the people they spend the most time with, their colleagues, have their back. As a government, we are building on existing entitlements to make sure that it's closer to what workers, the experts, are telling us is effective. I want to congratulate the campaigners, the organisers and the advocates who have delivered and held the standard for decades.</para>
<para>We on this side of the chamber know that meaningful reform was almost always built through workplace organising. There are workplaces out there to whom this makes no difference, not because they are lucky but because they are united. When workplaces are united, they put measures in place to make sure that, when one of them falls through the cracks, the rest are there to protect. These protections shouldn't be for workers to defend each time they bargain with their boss for a pay rise. These protections should be universal, because they work.</para>
<para>It is unacceptable currently that workers have to face this impossible choice—a choice between keeping their jobs and escaping abuse, a choice between turning up for your shift or packing your things, a choice between filling out your timesheet or filling out a rental application. We shouldn't make victims choose between their jobs and their survival. In our communities, we are already there. We know victims need help and we rally. It only makes sense to enshrine this kindness, this practical generosity, into workplace relations. This is an urgent crisis. Labor's legislation makes sure that there is one less difficult factor in the equation. This legislation brings the law of the land in line with the way kind and decent co-workers already treat victims of violence.</para>
<para>I am so proud of this Labor government that has made this a priority. I am so proud of workers and union members who have campaigned for so many years. I'm so proud of survivors who have spoken up about what they need, because we know that this legislation will save lives. There's absolutely no question about that. This is a victory for tough, smart social workers, who saw a human problem and fought for a legislative solution. This is a victory for survivors, many of whom are my friends. I say thank you to you. Thank you for your defiance and your dignity. To the parents, like my own mum, we offer this small moment of progress. Slow as it is, we are finally delivering it. We know that we all have our own narratives and strategies and our own hopes. We all know ours far too well. For me, my mum's refrain is a source of dignified inspiration. She would say that tough times don't last forever.</para>
<para>I return to the words of Thelma Plum to finish my contribution: 'We were better off without you'.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:44</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McDONALD</name>
    <name.id>123072</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak about the Fair Work Amendment (Paid Family and Domestic Violence Leave) Bill 2022. I want to start by acknowledging the words of Senator Green. My heart goes out to all of those families who have been the subject of a what is truly the most awful scourge of our modern-day lives. It's not a new one, of course. I believe that domestic violence victims deserve support. I believe that support should be better targeted than what this is proposing. But, mostly, I want to talk about the impact on small businesses.</para>
<para>There's been talk already of the work that small businesses are doing to support employees who are the subject of an awful act of violence against them and their children. These small businesses are already providing both paid and unpaid leave. But, importantly, during the last government, it was the government who paid a cash component as well as an in-kind component. What this legislation does is once again shift society's responsibilities and demands for action to the people least able to support it. I don't speak of government. I don't speak of big corporate employers. I speak of the 42 per cent of jobs that are created in this country by very small businesses, by mums and dads who often pay everybody else before they receive anything. These small businesses are already struggling with increased electricity prices, increased superannuation payments, the increased cost of living and increased transport costs. There are myriad costs that are being put upon small businesses, whose margins are becoming thinner and thinner.</para>
<para>Last weekend, I spoke to a primary producer, a fisherperson who has a fleet of boats that go out. Of those five boats, one is tied up on the wharves currently due to a workforce shortage because those opposite don't believe in an agriculture visa. They don't understand that, when they pay $15,000 per employee to come into this country, they then have a responsibility to chase them down when they abscond to a cash-paying business. These small businesses are in tears. They are on their knees. They tell me they cannot wait to get out of this employment trap, because they are earning less and less, they have mortgaged their homes and they have a huge amount of stress riding on them. What has this government done? It has taken what was working previously, a situation where government was stepping up to the plate on the responsibility that it rightly has to support victims of domestic violence, with the contribution of small businesses, and smashed its way through the hopes, dreams and capability of 42 per cent of the jobs in this country.</para>
<para>What we're saying to small business operators is: 'Here is one more responsibility for you. We ask you to collect PAYG tax. We ask you to collect child custody support. We ask you to collect superannuation. We ask you to train apprentices. We ask you to support your employees in every way.' But now we also are demanding not only that they have 10 days of paid leave for victims of domestic violence but also that that be extended to casual workers, who already receive 25 per cent loading on their payment.</para>
<para>I do not say this to be cruel or heartless. I'm trying to explain to those opposite, who may or may not have run a business, that the very thin margins for small businesses have been further eroded. What role are we going to provide to assist them? For the perpetuators of domestic violence, what education systems are we putting in place? We know the small business operator cannot counsel their employees about these things. That's an outside-of-work industrial relations matter. They cannot censure their employee who they understand is perpetuating domestic violence. We're giving to the business all the responsibility, accountability and cost but no tools.</para>
<para>What happens when that domestic violence victim comes to their employer and has to identify that they're a victim of domestic violence? I wish this could be called something else. I wish, like the hundreds of people write to me, that this could be called emergency leave or something else that allows employees not to be identified as victims. But, when those people have identified that, what sort of support will the employer be given? In the most awful example where there has been a tragedy, is the employer then responsible for notifying the police? Is the employer taking a legal liability in having been aware of domestic violence but not having reported it? Will they somehow be held accountable in that terrible crime? This is a very serious matter that we are discussing. Nobody disputes that we should be doing everything we can to support family members in the awful situation of being trapped in their own homes in an unsafe environment—nobody disputes that—but we have to be certain that we're not creating a new set of burdens for the people who are now forced to carry that.</para>
<para>Further to what Senator Cash was raising, the Fair Work Commission did consider all the issues proposed in the bill, some of which were put forward by the ACTU—not an employer but a representative of employees. In the 2021 inquiry the question of what workplace leave should be available to victims of family and domestic violence was considered in extensive detail. In reaching its decision, the Fair Work Commission clearly did not support the breadth of the ACTU proposals and found against them. The full bench said that compared to the ACTU claim the provisional model term 'provides better alignment with existing NES entitlements and will have less impact on business in terms of employment costs and the regulatory burden'. So the Fair Work Commission are supported sometimes by the government, but when they make a very sound argument for not extending this to casual employees they are completely disregarded. Even the ACTU acknowledged that there are significant operational difficulties in extending paid family and domestic violence leave to casuals, as noted by the Fair Work Commission. Remember, Madam Acting Deputy President, there is no HR department in these businesses. There is no extensive network of administration, form-fillers and so forth. These are the men and women who go home at night and do all of that in their own time. This responsibility—asking people to hold all the reins of running a business and paying their employees, and potentially to take on additional legal liability—is incredibly concerning.</para>
<para>It is also most concerning to read in the explanatory memorandum that there will be no cost to government. Of course there's no cost to government, because it has been passed on to somebody who has not perpetrated the violence, who has not done this to families! It's the small-business operator who'll pay the price. If, at the end of the day, there are any small-business operators left in this land, I will be surprised, because this government, with every single cost impost and regulatory burden, shows it has no regard for them. It is incredibly distressing. I wish those opposite would go and speak to small-business operators. I wish those opposite would go and explain to them exactly what it is that this legislation will do. Perhaps, then, they will see the additional despair in those people's eyes, those people who are saying, 'I'm going to walk away from fishing,' 'I'm going to walk away from my small business,' 'I will no longer have apprentices in this business,' and 'I'm carving my business down to a size that I do not have to continue taking on the cost and responsibility that is society's, rightly.' This is society's burden. We acknowledge that. Everybody understands that. We must do more.</para>
<para>This bill is not about addressing the perpetrators of domestic violence. It is not about additional housing. It is not about additional programs. It is not even about a very smart communications program. It is about saying to small-business operators, 'You will bear the cost of these outrageous and egregious crimes.' So I support the 12-month review following on from this legislation. I'm very keen to see the cumulative impact on small businesses. I want to urge the government to, instead, continue to build on the work of the former coalition government in implementing strategies to prevent domestic violence and to support victims.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:56</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DAVID POCOCK</name>
    <name.id>256136</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak in support of the Fair Work Amendment (Paid Family and Domestic Violence Leave) Bill 2022. The rate of family and domestic violence in Australia is appalling. So far this year, 41 women and 31 children have been murdered. Countless more have been subjected to other forms of coercive control, injury, physical, emotional and financial abuse. I wish we didn't need this leave but, unfortunately, for now, we do.</para>
<para>It's critical to support people who need time to deal with the effects of experiencing family and domestic violence. Whilst this needs to be part of a much bigger conversation, in our communities, in our society, about family and domestic violence, the way that we are treating each other and the way that men are perpetrating violence against women, in the short term it's clear that we need this support, to allow women to get the support that they need to be able to take time off work to deal with the huge number of challenges that come with going through something like this. I commend the government on bringing forward this bill. It is an important first step.</para>
<para>In wanting to hear from my community, in August I convened a roundtable discussion at the ANU of business, unions, experts in this field, community organisations and frontline service providers to go over the draft legislation. I'd like to thank them for their time, their expertise and their work in this space. The resounding message that came out of it could not have been clearer: they want this legislation passed as soon as possible. The roundtable discussion was a great opportunity to canvas views on a range of suggested amendments to the legislation as well as flagging areas for future work. I recognise and respect the good intentions of Senators Lambie and Tyrrell in moving their amendment around the naming of this leave. This is something that came up, at length, at the roundtable discussion. While there are arguments for and against, the majority view, especially from frontline service providers, was that it is necessary to retain the family and domestic violence name. I have sought and been given assurances from government that they have engaged with payroll service providers to ensure that workers' privacy is protected when accessing this leave. It's crucial that we get this right and ensure that we are protecting women who come forward to access this leave.</para>
<para>Another key piece of feedback that came out of the roundtable was the need to provide training and support for businesses, especially small businesses. I acknowledge just how hard it is to run a small business, particularly in the current climate with the skills and workforce shortages. A lot of small-business owners are putting in massive weeks to plug the shortages and make things work.</para>
<para>It's critical that the government is adequately funding frontline specialists and community organisations—organisations like the Women's Legal Centre and, here in the ACT, the Domestic Violence Crisis Service—who provide essential and, in many cases, life-saving services to those most at risk in our community. Many of them operate on short-term and inadequate funding cycles. To me it's absolutely wild that the DVCS CEO, Sue, is answering calls at 4.30 in the morning and then fronting up to run the show—to undertake advocacy, to deal with the complex and challenging casework and to deal with the myriad other tasks that come with running an organisation like that.</para>
<para>It's great to read that community housing organisations, Indigenous organisations and domestic violence services will receive an extra $560 million over four years in this budget. We need to continue to look at better ways to fund these services and ensure that we are tying it into the broader conversation through our communities across our society about how we drive change and deal with these issues head on.</para>
<para>I also welcome in the recently released National Plan to End Violence against Women and Children 2022-2032 the focus on housing. The admirable sentiments set out in this document need to be backed up with urgent investment. I hope we'll be hearing more about that in the budget. The Housing Australia Future Fund, alongside similar social and affordable housing supply measures from state and territory governments, is a good first step, but on its own it is clearly not able to keep up with demand.</para>
<para>Let's ensure that this is the beginning of a new approach to realise the government's commendable aspiration to end family and domestic violence in a generation. It's a very bold target—one we can all agree we should be aiming for. Family and domestic violence leave will help people experiencing violence, but there are the broader issues of how we engage Australians, how we drive societal change when it comes to attitudes towards family and domestic violence and how we provide cost-of-living relief to families, given that we know financial pressures exacerbate this sort of violence in homes across the country.</para>
<para>It's a huge challenge, but we were elected to not just think about this but implement plans. As parliamentarians we should be leading by example when it comes to the culture in our workplaces and in our families and we should be contributing positively to the national conversation. This issue really is a blight on all of us. Australia is not unique; this challenge is shared by communities and societies across the world. It is certainly something we should be taking seriously. I commend the government on this first step, but I acknowledge there is a huge amount more to do in this space.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:04</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator</name>
    <name.id>281503</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>CICCONE (—) (): I'm very proud to be here today in the Senate to debate the Fair Work Amendment (Paid Family and Domestic Violence Leave) Bill 2022. It's one of the first acts by the Albanese Labor government, and it's great to see the progress that this government is making in tackling the scourge in our society that is domestic violence. This piece of legislation demonstrates Labor's commitment to act against family and domestic violence. In Australia, sadly, one in six women have experienced physical or sexual violence. For men this number is one in 16. As elected representatives we must do everything we can in this place to reduce domestic violence in our communities and to make it easier for victims of domestic violence to escape to a safe environment.</para>
<para>It is quite concerning to hear the contributions by some in this place that somehow leave is a burden on businesses, which should not suffer or feel the pain of the domestic violence that is inflicted on people who are trying to flee a violent environment—usually their home. It is quite disappointing that some senators have chosen to go down that path. It would be interesting to see if they also use the same line of argument with respect to sick leave—if someone gets sick, is that somehow not something that they should be entitled to? Is paid maternity leave another type of leave that should also not be given to workers in this country? What about long service leave, annual leave and all the other sorts of leave that the union movement and the workers of this country have fought so hard for? Yet what we find is that many senators, particularly those on the other side, are making that argument to explain why they should not be supporting this piece of legislation that supports predominantly women who are fleeing domestic violence back at home.</para>
<para>This piece of legislation before us today establishes universal paid leave for family and domestic violence. Some 11 million Australian workers, most of them women, will be able to access this leave. This includes casuals because casuals are also entitled to leave in this country, and the 25 per cent loading just doesn't cut it when you're trying to flee a domestic situation at home. But, somehow, those opposite will put the argument to the contrary. At the moment, workers have to choose between escaping a violent situation and maintaining their financial security. Thankfully, Labor is giving them another option. This is what this bill is fundamentally about. It's about acknowledging the lack of access to paid leave, which will keep many women in dangerous situations longer, and it's about understanding that we need to take action and we need to take every step that we can to remove this barrier.</para>
<para>The labour movement has been pushing for this for some time. In my time as a union official with the Shop, Distributive and Allied Employees Association, we joined countless other unions in the We Won't Wait campaign. This campaign was about recognising the urgent crisis facing Australian women every week—every week a woman is killed by her partner, an ex-partner or a family member in Australia. In the face of this statistic, unions knew that we could not waste any more time in taking action. Unions had various successes in campaigning for paid domestic violence leave with individual employers or through our current awards system. What we are simply doing is affording that right to every single worker under the Fair Work Act. Every single worker in this country—whether they are under an award, under an EBA or under their own contractual arrangements with their employer—will receive this leave.</para>
<para>Now, with a change of government, we have the opportunity to make this a universal entitlement. I'm very pleased that, no matter their workplace, no matter where they live, no matter how they perform their duties at work and no matter if they work full time or casual, they will have a choice. They will have a choice, and they will know that there is security there—that, should they need safety and should they need security in their employment, they can put in a request for paid family and domestic violence leave.</para>
<para>I'm really glad to see that the Albanese Labor government is supporting casual workers. Casual workers are definitely not spared from family and domestic violence, as I mentioned earlier. In fact, women who are experiencing family and domestic violence are more likely to be employed in casual work, and I know that, having had experience in the retail sector. The vast majority of people who work in retail are women and people under the age of 25, but it's the women that are the ones who are more likely to be exposed to domestic violence. I'm really pleased to say to the many workers that I have dealt with over the years that, finally, this government is putting forward the reforms that Labor have promised for many, many years.</para>
<para>If we accept the basic principle that we need to do everything we can to end domestic violence then we should surely also accept that we must do everything we can not just for some but for every single Australian. That is why this bill will enshrine paid family and domestic violence leave as part of the Fair Work Act so that all Australian workers can access this entitlement regardless of where they work. Escaping a violent relationship takes time and money, with some estimates suggesting it can cost up to $20,000 and take more than 140 hours. That is why this paid leave is so important. Without this leave, too many women can't leave.</para>
<para>I am proud, again, to place on the record that the Albanese Labor government is treating this issue with the urgency that it deserves and requires. I congratulate everyone, particularly our minister Tony Burke and all those on the frontbench, for doing an outstanding job, as well as those in the union movement for advocating for this bill. I commend this bill to the Senate.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:11</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'SULLIVAN</name>
    <name.id>283585</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I have great pride in standing here to speak on the Fair Work Amendment (Paid Family and Domestic Violence Leave) Bill 2022. I want to set out from the outset, though, that this is obviously a difficult subject. Any form of family and domestic violence is totally and utterly unacceptable, it's abhorrent and it continues to be a blight on Australian society.</para>
<para>Before I go on to the substance of this debate, I also want to acknowledge the good work of the committee that I'm on, the Education and Employment Legislation Committee. Often this committee can be a little partisan in its approach to issues, but we, through this inquiry and the hearings that we had, worked incredibly well together across the different parties. It was a really good examination of the issues that surround this bill. I acknowledge the chair and all the participants in that committee because it was a good process that we went through and a good example of what we should be doing more of.</para>
<para>To the substance of the bill: there's no doubt that there are few more serious issues than family and domestic violence. There are too many horrific and distressing stories of domestic violence that we all read and hear about and that all of us no doubt can share. Domestic violence is insidious. It sometimes begins with psychological, emotional and financial abuse by the perpetrator towards the victim, and it can then escalate to actual physical violence. All too often, this harm tragically ends in death for the victim.</para>
<para>There is little doubt that there is a fundamental family and domestic violence issue in Australia. I would not dispute it being characterised as an epidemic in this country. There is neither tolerance nor excuses for those that perpetrate family and domestic violence. The long-term physical, emotional and psychological consequences for victims-survivors and their families can take years to heal—if they ever do. Early in my professional career, I worked for about eight years as a youth worker. I saw, firsthand, experiences of family and domestic violence and the effect it has on families, particularly on young people. Family and domestic violence disproportionately impacts women and, of course, children.</para>
<para>A New South Wales government study reveals that one in four children are exposed to domestic violence. Witnessing family and domestic violence can leave an indelible impression on children for the rest of their lives. On average, one woman in Australia is killed every 11 days by a partner, and one in four women have experienced violence by a current or former intimate partner since the age of 15.</para>
<para>Family and domestic violence is a significant and complex health, societal and, indeed, workplace issue in Australia. This is an issue that we are dealing with as a nation and one that impacts on every part of our lives and every part of our society. The former coalition government recognised this and passed legislation in 2018 which gave provision in the National Employment Standards for five days of unpaid family and domestic violence leave for full-time and part-time employees. This was in line with a decision made earlier that year by the Fair Work Commission. The legislation in 2018 was a significant reform and acknowledged the impact that family and domestic violence had on people's lives. It also recognised that family and domestic violence was increasingly a workplace issue and that many businesses, particularly larger organisations, had already introduced family and domestic violence leave in their workplace agreements.</para>
<para>Earlier this year, the Fair Work Commission made a ruling that recommended paid family and domestic violence leave for full-time and part-time employees. It was a sensible decision by the Fair Work Commission and one that I support. I agree that family and domestic violence leave for full-time and part-time employees is an important part of that process to assist victims to transition out of violent relationships and begin the process of recovery from family and domestic violence. However, the government's proposed legislation here seeks to go beyond the prudent recommendations made by the Fair Work Commission. This legislation now seeks to widen the ambit of paid family and domestic violence leave to include casual employees.</para>
<para>Many small businesses are genuinely concerned that government is wanting to go beyond the Fair Work Commission provisional model and extend this new entitlement to casual employees. Undoubtedly, casual employment plays a vital role for many small businesses, who play a critical role in growing and maintaining the strong economy that we have. The nature of casual employment provides flexibility for small-business operators and employers alike. However, casual employees are paid a leave loading in lieu of the paid entitlements given to full-time and part-time employees.</para>
<para>Unlike large businesses, who have a much broader capacity to absorb the new costs associated with introduction of new entitlements like this, small businesses don't always have that ability. They do not have large payroll systems or HR departments and administration to be able to absorb this. These are often standard practices for large businesses, and maybe even medium-sized businesses, but very rarely are found within a small business environment. The introduction of a paid leave scheme will have potentially disruptive effects on, particularly, small businesses. The Fair Work Commission knew this. It acknowledged in its provisional model that including family and domestic violence leave in the modern award system would increase the utilisation of such a scheme and, therefore, there would likely be some increase in unplanned employee absences.</para>
<para>I have concerns with the ambiguous nature that this legislation has around the inclusion of perpetrators of family and domestic violence leave, and the government needs to urgently clarify this. I for one do not support any provision for perpetrators of family and domestic violence leave being able to access paid family and domestic violence leave. It is not clear in this bill that perpetrators are indeed not covered. The government needs to make this clear. Aside from facing the full extent of the law, there are existing services offered, including counselling, for perpetrators to access. That's an important part of tackling this issue, and it is one that I fully support, but it shouldn't be on the employers of this country to pay for perpetrators. If anything, state and territory governments should be continuing to strengthen the Criminal Code for perpetrators of family and domestic violence.</para>
<para>As deputy chair of the Senate Education and Employment Legislation Committee's inquiry into this bill, it was apparent during the hearing that potential economic costs, particularly as I've already discussed, for small and family businesses and for medium businesses, had not been adequately established by the government. The government wants the benefit of the doubt with this legislation, without any economic modelling other than what's been provided by academic experts commissioned by the ACTU, and it's a bit dubious of that. So the Department of Education, Employment and Workplace Relations did not undertake any specific economic analysis regarding this legislation that came out through the inquiry. Presumably neither did Treasury. I welcome the undertaking, though, that the Department of Education, Employment and Workplace Relations made during the committee hearings to do that work—to have a look, to gather more data once the leave is implemented—and then to review the impact of this legislation in time.</para>
<para>Going forward, this information is going to be critical for small and medium-size businesses to ascertain some fiscal clarity around the cost impact. It's important to note that merely doing a cost aggregate impact for small businesses ignores the fact that the sector comprises individual businesses, each of a varying size and with different challenges. We heard that this leave is going to cost the economy $50-odd million. Now, that's fine across the economy. The economy can absorb that sort of amount. But if you're the small business that employs a survivor of domestic violence, then of course that's a big impact for you, particularly if you're a small business and you've got only a number of staff and you've got to hire someone else in. We heard this time and again from witnesses who are concerned about the impact of this.</para>
<para>There was near agreement among stakeholders that small and medium businesses will be adversely impacted if the new entitlement is extended to casual employees, if that's what this bill is enabling. The Fair Work Act provides no precedence nor a model for a workable scheme for the provision of paid leave of any type to casual employees. There is little doubt that this bill will be costly for small businesses, more than was anticipated by the Fair Work Commission in its provisional model. This includes the concept that paid family and domestic violence leave is provided up-front, even to new employees, including casuals, rather than the usual accrual that happens pro rata if they're only part-time, as is familiar to businesses of all sizes.</para>
<para>In their submission to the Education and Employment Committee inquiry the Australian Chamber of Commerce and Industry highlighted what the potential cost impact would be for small businesses and what they would effectively be asked to pay for each shift: the base rate for the originally rostered employee who did not end up working due to family and domestic violence leave, a 25 per cent casual loading for the originally rostered employee who did not end up working due to family and domestic violence leave, any applicable penalty rate for the originally rostered employee who did not end up working due to family and domestic violence, the base rate for the replacement employee, a 25 per cent casual loading for the replacement employee, and any applicable penalty rate for the replacement employee. That is six separate pay components for just one shift.</para>
<para>For example, a casual employee of a small business, such as a country pub, a small cafe or a small pub operating under the hospitality industry general award of 2020—an employee who supplies liquor to patrons, the food and beverage attendant grade 2—is entitled to a minimum hourly rate of $21.72. And if they are a casual employee working on a Sunday, their hourly wage will be 175 per cent of their ordinary rate, taking it to $38.01. If the employee uses family and domestic violence leave for a six-hour shift, the business will be out of pocket by $228.06. They will then have to find another casual employee to fill that vacancy, costing a further $228.06. For a small pub, that's $456.12, a significant effective wage bill for a single shift of a single employee.</para>
<para>The government should not simply ignore these concerns raised by small business groups. Small business is one of the biggest economic drivers in this country. According to the Small Business Development Corporation, small business represents 97 per cent of all businesses in my home state of Western Australia. Other stakeholders mentioned the lack of details in this legislation regarding the reporting obligations for an employer. What happens to an employer if someone fronts up with some evidence or a disclosure of being a victim-survivor of family domestic violence? What obligations are there on that employer to go and report that to the authorities? This bill doesn't provide that clarification. I call on the government to provide clarification so that employers know, in the operation of this bill, what obligations they will have. Will there be any financial penalty? Will there be any possible criminal penalty if they don't report it? What obligations are there on businesses?</para>
<para>There's also unease from small businesses about how they will determine when a casual would have been working when paid domestic violence leave is taken. How will they determine what days that person would have been rostered on and, therefore, whether they should be paid at the full rate, all while ensuring underpayment is avoided for a casual employee accessing family domestic violence leave? In the end, small-business operators are just trying to run their businesses, so the government should be able to give them the details so they understand what their obligations are and what they need to be doing.</para>
<para>I support the provisions of this legislation. I would like to see some clarification given to employers through possible amendments to the bill or the acceptance of the coalition's second reading amendment. This is consistent with the provisional model set out by the Fair Work Commission. It builds on the legacy of the former Morrison government, which first addressed domestic violence leave back in 2018. I have outlined aspects of concern with the bill, but I hope that they can be addressed. It will impact small businesses in a way which the government has not adequately modelled, and I encourage the government to step up and provide that clarification so that employers are very clear—because I have no doubt that employers want to support those that are victims of domestic violence.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:26</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McALLISTER</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>What an honour it is to participate in this debate. When we gathered in July to mark the introduction of the Fair Work Amendment (Paid Family and Domestic Violence Leave) Bill 2022 over in the other place, there were a lot of tears. It showed, I think, how much this bill means to so many people. There were a lot of tears here earlier this morning as well when my colleague and friend Senator Green made her powerful, moving, personal contribution, where she spoke about the impact of violence on children who witness it and experience it and about the significance of the measures that we will put in place through passing this legislation to support people in exactly that situation.</para>
<para>Over the past three years, I had the real honour of visiting many dozens of refuges and services as shadow assistant minister for communities and the prevention of family violence. From Broome to Burnie, I was able to hear directly from survivors, advocates and frontline workers. What they told me was this. Many working women resign or are terminated from their employment because they need to take time to deal with issues that arise as a consequence of domestic abuse: finding housing, attending court, attending doctors' appointments and ensuring their children have the support that they need. The truth is that leaving violence takes time. It's expensive and, actually, it's often very, very dangerous. Leaving is the time when a woman is most at risk, and the situation puts women fleeing violence in a precarious position. Many face the unacceptable choice—and it is unacceptable—between fleeing to safety or staying in a job. No-one should be forced to make that decision.</para>
<para>That's why, from opposition, I introduced the Fair Work Amendment (Ten Days Paid Domestic and Family Violence Leave) Bill 2020 into this chamber. Those opposite opposed it then, and we wait to see how they will handle this legislation, but I am honoured to speak this afternoon in this debate. This bill will amend the Fair Work Act. It will improve the existing entitlement in the National Employment Standards from five days of unpaid leave to 10 days of paid family and domestic violence leave. It's an entitlement that will be available to a person who is experiencing family and domestic violence. I note Senator O'Sullivan's question in this regard, and I want to make this very clear: the entitlement does not provide a benefit—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The</name>
    <name.id>HZB</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator McAllister, I'm sorry to interrupt you, but, it being 1.30, we're going to move to two-minute statements. You will be in continuation.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>STATEMENTS BY SENATORS</title>
        <page.no>14</page.no>
        <type>STATEMENTS BY SENATORS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Collinsvale Primary School</title>
          <page.no>14</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:30</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator</name>
    <name.id>263418</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>DUNIAM (—) (): Today I want to reflect on a great experience I had down in Tasmania, noting a statistic I remember reading recently around the amount of Australians that ordinarily have contact with their elected representatives: between five and 10 per cent of people, throughout their lifetime, will have contact with a member of local government, state government or federal government. It was a great pleasure on that basis, noting that statistic—</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DUNIAM</name>
    <name.id>263418</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>As low as that, Senator Ayres. Maybe you see more; I don't know!</para>
<para>I went to Collinsvale Primary School, a great public primary school just outside the Hobart city area. At the request of the Collinsvale Primary School middle class, who have been doing a great job lobbying politicians state, federal and local—and I'm sure Senator McKim, who's nodding his head, has had some interaction with them as well and no doubt supported their good works. This small class of students took it upon themselves to lobby each level of government for support for playground equipment. And you know what? They've succeeded. They have shown others what it takes to get a good outcome for their community.</para>
<para>I want to pay tribute to the class teacher, Ms Whitney Bowerman, and the students: Alex, Alin, Brooke, Dieter, Emily, Ivy, Lochie, Lucas, Lucy, Mitchel, Mizuki, Nate, Rex, Ryan, Wyatt and Zack. And I say to other students across the country: take note of this team from Collinsvale Primary School. They've lived by the saying, 'If you don't ask, you don't get.' They asked and they lobbied hard. They contacted Liberal, Labor and Green representatives state, federal and local, and they've succeeded. I commend their class and their teacher for demonstrating to those students the value of contact with politicians, of being able to lobby effectively for what they want. I hope we see more of this from our students right across Tasmania and, indeed, across the country.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Tasmania: Energy, Tasmania: Manufacturing</title>
          <page.no>15</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:32</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator POLLEY</name>
    <name.id>e5x</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Australians have a unique sense of pride about their jobs. We are proud workers. Labor cares about jobs, and an Albanese Labor government will invest in the future of secure Tasmanian jobs and manufacturing by helping to kickstart LINE Hydrogen's George Town project. LINE Hydrogen is working to deliver Australia's first operational commercial-scale hydrogen facility. This commitment will mean LINE Hydrogen will invest in green hydrogen production and co-locate with solar farms to replace diesel in Tasmanian trucks and buses. Not only will this project be great for the creation of jobs; it will move Northern Tasmania in the right direction in terms of renewable energy and climate action. Labor's investment will support around $80 million in private investment in the first stage of the project. When fully operational, the project will be valued at $300 million once stage 3 is complete. Labor will work with both the Tasmanian government and TasNetworks to finalise and deliver this commitment—another big win for Northern Tasmania.</para>
<para>Furthermore, Labor is committed to ensuring Australian manufacturing is restarted. Labor will invest a further $5 million to create jobs and ensure Tasmania is a state that makes things now and into the future. This vision includes both the production of hydrogen and up to 30 hydrogen truck buses that will be leased to industrial partners. Over time, LINE could also build at least five hydrogen refuelling stations across Tasmania. The project will create 215 direct and downstream jobs.</para>
<para>Labor is committed to securing well-paid jobs and delivering for Tasmania, and delivering on Tasmania's and Labor's commitment to renewable energy. Over the last nine years of the Liberal government, we saw 85,000 manufacturing jobs lost in this country. They have no credible record at all when it comes to supporting manufacturing in this country. LINE Hydrogen is a fantastic project. It's fantastic for Tasmania, and I'm proud to be part of the Albanese Labor government— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Victoria: Floods</title>
          <page.no>15</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:34</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RICE</name>
    <name.id>155410</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Right now, thousands of people in my home state of Victoria are experiencing the devastating impacts of flooding. Major flooding is occurring along the Murray River at Echuca Moama, Torrumbarry and Barham, with other towns along the river bracing for the coming days. Local communities are banding together, with people volunteering around the clock, and I salute their efforts. They're working together, rescuing people and animals, and protecting lives, homes and livelihoods. Just last week, my local community in the City of Maribyrnong was inundated with water. Areas near the Maribyrnong and the Werribee rivers were evacuated, and emergency services had to use boats to rescue people less than 10 kilometres from the Melbourne CBD. The Maribyrnong River flooding was undoubtedly made worse by the Flemington Racecourse flood wall, rammed through 15 years ago, despite the hard-fought campaigning of my local community.</para>
<para>But the climate crisis is the big story here. Thousands of Victorians are experiencing its implications firsthand. This increase in the rate and the extent of disasters is occurring with only one degree of warming, and we are headed for two or even three! Major storms and rain events are putting people's lives in danger, threatening homes, damaging our coastline and impacting our ability to grow food. And Labor and the Liberals are making the flooding worse by continuing to fund coal and gas expansion. They are risking our future for the sake of their donors. There are 114 new coal and gas mines being planned, for heaven's sake! Not one of these new coal and gas mines can go ahead; we have to phase out coal and gas by 2030. If we don't, more extreme weather events and more severe and devastating floods more often will become the new reality for millions of people across the globe.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Budget</title>
          <page.no>15</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:36</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DEAN SMITH</name>
    <name.id>241710</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise with some solemn, sad and disappointing news: Labor's first budget will make Australian families poorer. The National Australia Bank's consumer sentiment survey found that the cost-of-living hit across essentials like groceries, fuel and bills will add a whopping $2,040 extra to family budgets before Christmas alone. Just this week, Treasurer Jim Chalmers has conceded that we do have falling wages. Australian families will wake up tomorrow being poorer than they are today.</para>
<para>Food bills are up, mortgage expenses are up and petrol is more expensive than it was three months ago. In the last three months, dairy and eggs are up by nine per cent; bread is up by almost five per cent; house and cleaning products are up by 16 per cent; and beef products are up by 14 per cent. After almost six months, Labor has yet to show us a real plan about how to deal with power prices, which are set to go up by at least 35 per cent next year alone. There is a tsunami of cost-of-living pressures facing Australian families, and Labor's first budget will not provide any immediate relief. Tonight, Labor's test is to show how Australian families will not be poorer.</para>
<para>Almost six months ago, the Labor Prime Minister said that no-one would be left behind, because we should always look after the disadvantaged and the vulnerable. He went on to say—he went on to promise—that no-one will be held back, because we should always support aspiration and opportunity. Tonight, we will discover how much poorer Australian families will be after Labor's first budget.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Workplace Relations: Qantas</title>
          <page.no>16</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:38</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHELDON</name>
    <name.id>168275</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to provide some free advice to the Liberal-National opposition: if you insist on opposing Labor's reforms to grow wages before you've even seen the bill and if you want to get the Australian people on your side, then don't enlist the help of the most loathed corporate thugs in the country. I was surprised this morning to open the <inline font-style="italic">Financial Review</inline> and see the Qantas CEO, Alan Joyce, reading out of a Liberal Party messaging document. It read:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Qantas chief executive Alan Joyce fears that the Albanese government's multiemployer bargaining will hamper innovation …</para></quote>
<para>It's messaging straight out of the Liberal Party HQ. But the only thing Alan Joyce has ever innovated in new ways is to illegally sack workers and rob them of their entitlements.</para>
<para>This is the sort of company that the Liberal and National parties keep. We know that it is, because they gave Alan Joyce $2 billion during the pandemic and now he's using that money to pay himself fat bonuses and share buybacks. On one side we've got the Albanese government introducing groundbreaking reforms to grow wages for Australian workers and, opposing it, we've got the deliberate low-wage agenda of the Liberal-Nationals and Alan Joyce. It's never been clearer that the Liberals and Nationals are not on the side of Australian workers. The former government never, ever criticised Qantas for illegally sacking 2,000 workers and ripping off thousands more, and now, in opposition, the Liberals and Nationals are working with Alan Joyce to rip off everyone else.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Tasmania: Employment</title>
          <page.no>16</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:40</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator TYRRELL</name>
    <name.id>300639</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>A lot of businesses are finding it hard to get workers. It's not a new thing; it's been an issue in rural areas for years. But we're Aussies, so we find crafty ways to get around the lack of boots on the ground. Australians have long been technical innovators because of worker shortages—we invented mechanical sheep shearing, we were the first nation to scale up mechanically milking cows and we led the field in mechanical crop sowing and harvesting—and that continues today.</para>
<para>Last month I had the pleasure of visiting Western Tiers Distillery, where they showcased the technical innovation of two Aussie companies, SAGE Automation and Kolmark. Working together, they have perfected the art of automated distilling. A process that once would take six or more staff now takes one. They can get on with the business of perfecting their product.</para>
<para>But we aren't giving away all our jobs to robots. Tassie boilermakers and welders are making the stills by hand. Tassie engineers are putting together the automated switches, cooling systems, heating systems and pumps. Local farmers are finding a new market for their grains. Local tourists have a new venue to visit, with fabulous food and, of course, the main attraction: gin. The same number of staff are still hired, but they are now arranged more productively—more income for the same headcount. The distillery is highly impressive—shiny copper stills linked by steel pipes and vats all controlled from a central cabinet that can tailor this distillery for different drinks and distilling processes. It's world-class technology, linking the old and the new, being sold all over the world, and it's made in little old Westbury.</para>
<para>Aussie innovation in rural areas needs to be supported and celebrated. Innovation isn't just happening in the big mainland cities. It starts with small ideas in small towns from big dreamers.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Rural And Regional Health Services</title>
          <page.no>16</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:42</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HUGHES</name>
    <name.id>273828</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>We know tonight's budget is going to have a few surprises in it, and we know that it's going to specifically target the people who didn't vote for them. We know those sitting opposite who are in government now don't like people in rural and regional Australia, and we know that they're going to punish those people in the bush who didn't vote for them. We didn't know, though, that their cruelty was going to extend to families in regional areas who have children with autism. I got an email last night from the CEO of AEIOU, a best-practice autism early-intervention centre that allows families to work while their children are in child care and receiving intensive best-practice autism therapy. The results that AEIOU has across its centres in Queensland, South Australia and here in the ACT are extraordinary, particularly when you look at what happens to children that attend these centres and how many of them then go on to participate in mainstream education.</para>
<para>What those opposite might not understand, because they've made all these promises around the NDIS but clearly don't understand the fundamentals around it, is that early intervention is key to ensuring that children can move off NDIS and that they can move into mainstream. But, if you live in Townsville, that option is no longer available to you, because $2 million has been ripped from AEIOU, who were planning to invest that money in the establishment of a Townsville centre. That is now not going ahead, so for families in Townsville with autistic children, under this government, it is tough luck. You will not get support and you will not get access to best-practice therapy, because those opposite are going to punish the people in the regions who did not vote for them.</para>
<para>They do not care about children with autism or their families or best-practice early intervention. It is heartless, it is disgraceful, and, if you are serious about families, you will review this decision immediately.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>South Australia: Environment</title>
          <page.no>17</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:44</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GROGAN</name>
    <name.id>296331</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I recently attended a women's environmental breakfast in Adelaide, which was hosted by Bush Heritage Australia. I was joined by my parliamentary colleague Senator Barbara Pocock and also by Deputy Premier Susan Close, who is a keen, keen warrior for all things to protect the South Australian environment. She also fights desperately hard for the Murray River and to ensure that all of the communities along the river—from agriculture to the communities who live on the river—can actually survive and thrive by having a healthy river.</para>
<para>At this breakfast I felt a great sense of hope. Around the room there were a range of women from corporate sustainability environments. There were change-makers, innovators, businesswomen, farmers—you name it, they were all in the room—and they were totally inspiring. I had the great pleasure of talking to them and getting their feedback on the recently announced plan to reserve 30 per cent of the country's land and oceans for conservation by 2030, which is intended to improve and protect our biodiversity.</para>
<para>I was delighted by the response we got; people were very keen. They had excellent ideas on how this kind of measure was going to genuinely make a difference. These are the women who are out on the land across South Australia, and they are the best people to determine how to protect the land, because they know it and they live it. They were delighted that, after nine long years of neglect and funding cuts and rorts in the environment sector, there was finally a government that was going to make a difference.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Human Rights: Iran</title>
          <page.no>17</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:46</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKIM</name>
    <name.id>JKM</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>We've seen recently in Iran the most inspiring and courageous resistance by so many Iranian people. They are protesting and speaking out for justice, for their rights and for freedom, and they're doing it in the face of the most horrific and brutal violence perpetrated on them by the Iranian government. So far over 250 people have been killed by Iranian security forces—this includes 35 children—and over 13,000 people have been arrested.</para>
<para>This violence and this killing has to stop and it has to stop now. The arrests have to end. The international community must hear the voices of the Iranian people and do much more to support them. We must condemn the violence and condemn the killings in the strongest possible terms. We must collectively make it clear to the Iranian regime that it will face serious consequences if it continues to kill and wound and imprison its own people. We've seen large rallies in support of the Iranian people around Australia, and I hope we see more around the world. The Australian government has to do more to lead international efforts to sanction the Iranian government.</para>
<para>I condemn the violence against the Iranian people in the strongest possible terms and express my utmost solidarity with them as they fight so courageously for their rights and freedoms. I will end with this: woman, life, freedom. That's a Kurdish slogan, so I'll say it in Kurdish: jin, jiyan, azadi.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Hunt, Ms Claire</title>
          <page.no>17</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:48</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator REYNOLDS</name>
    <name.id>250216</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>In our jobs as senators we often encounter the most extraordinary Australians quietly delivering amazing things for their communities. Today I'd like to acknowledge the work of Claire Hunt, the Defence School Mentor at Comet Bay College in Secret Harbour, just south of Perth. She is a true local hero. For the past 13 years Claire has coordinated the Defence School Mentor Program to support the many students at the school who have parents or guardians serving in the Australian Defence Force. Under her leadership the HaSS school at Comet Bay has created an extraordinary service museum in the corridors of the school. I've never seen anything quite like it.</para>
<para>Recently I had the opportunity to sit down with Claire for an interview for Comet Bay College's new mobile augmented reality application, Anzac Heroes, for which they received $118,000 from the Morrison government's Saluting Their Service Commemorative Grants program. This groundbreaking initiative is bringing to life the stories of some of our nation's Anzac heroes, those well-known, those not so well-known and those local. The use of augmented technology will take students, parents and the public back in time to some iconic moments in Australia's military history. I was so honoured to have shared my own story of 35 years service in the Australian Army Reserve.</para>
<para>This commemorative war museum has been lovingly brought to life with the stories not only of individual servicemen but also, pleasingly, so many service women. It is so important for the next generation not only to appreciate those who have and those who continue to serve but also to understand the lessons of war. Congratulations, Claire. You are a true local hero and you are an inspiration. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Budget</title>
          <page.no>18</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:50</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DAVID POCOCK</name>
    <name.id>256136</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Today, on budget day, it's important to remember that the budget is about priorities. I believe it's time to rethink some of those priorities. Last financial year the federal government spent more on fossil fuel subsidies than on our public schools. This year fossil fuel companies are enjoying record profits as a result of Putin's invasion of Ukraine. Tonight we will see more fossil fuel subsidies in the budget, subsidies that grow the profits of multinational companies while those Australians on low incomes are left behind. We can no longer subsidise companies making record profits when Australians are facing such huge cost-of-living pressures. Low-income earners, young people and jobseekers are being left to live on $48 a day by the government.</para>
<para>The research is now so clear: telling people to live on $48 a day is telling them to live in poverty; it is forcing them into poverty. In the ACT alone 38,000 people are living in poverty, including 9,000 children. Across the country, one in six children are now growing up in poverty. This is something we should be talking about when we talk about the budget and priorities. It's time to start putting the lives of people and children ahead of the interests of fossil fuel companies. It is time to stop underwriting profits. It's time to tax them their fair share so that we can pay for the services that Australians really need.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Budget</title>
          <page.no>18</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:52</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BROCKMAN</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Tonight's budget is a test for the new government. They spent the last 4½ months blaming the previous government, even though they inherited a growing economy, record low unemployment that was declining. They've spent a lot of time blaming the previous government but not a lot of time outlining to the Australian people what they are going to do, so tonight's budget is a huge test. It's particularly a test in rural and regional Australia because rural and regional Australia is such an important part of our social fabric and our economy. But there's a great concern, as I travel in rural and regional Australia, that the incoming new government is going to forget them, is going to ignore them; in fact, is going to see them as an easy target.</para>
<para>We have already seen a taste of that with the axing of the Building Better Regions Fund. This fund, as anyone who travelled in rural Australia would know, has funded so many positive projects that smaller councils, smaller regional towns, could not afford to do themselves. These are projects that made a real fundamental difference to people's lives, particularly in the bush where they have cost-of-living pressures that those in the city don't have; although I acknowledge those in the city are facing high petrol prices as well. I was recently up in Tom Price and Onslow, where the cost of diesel, which is still the principal transport fuel in the north of Western Australia, just like it is in regional and rural Australia as a whole, was north of $2.40, north of $2.50. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if, in the 10 days since I left those centres, the price has gone up again, so it is a big test for this government. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Australian Greens</title>
          <page.no>18</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:54</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ROBERTS</name>
    <name.id>266524</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Conservative values, including freedom, mean we embrace diverse opinions within our wider embrace of the rich tapestry of God's creation. From free debate of different opinions comes strong policy, fair policy. Yet our opponents on the control side of politics play the person, not the argument. This is second nature to the Left, the control side of politics, with hubris and intolerance covering for ignorance and driving their personal attacks.</para>
<para>In discussing Senator Thorpe's behaviour, we see that, unlike the control side of politics, conservatives embrace differences of opinion. Could it be that the Left's own attack on Senator Thorpe is political payback for her opposition to the voice? Remember how an old social media message from Lidia Thorpe, asking for Senator Hanson's support in fighting the voice, was dredged up? That dredging up was the warning shot Senator Thorpe did not heed.</para>
<para>Now we have the bikie boss scandal. Adam Bandt reacted quickly, with an immediate sacking—as if it was orchestrated. One Nation asked what Adam Bandt knew and when he knew it. A head may roll, yet not the one intended. Listening to confidential briefings on bikie gang criminality while in a secret relationship with a recent boss of a bikie gang deserves strong censure. Cheating on one's significant other deserves censure in another place, not here. One Nation hopes, in future, to see less petulance and better judgement from Senator Thorpe.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKim</name>
    <name.id>JKM</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I am reluctant to take a point of order during two-minute statements, but I do draw your attention to the requirement that members not reflect personally on other senators.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>HZB</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Roberts, I will draw that to your attention.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ROBERTS</name>
    <name.id>266524</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you. Australia needs the control side of politics, the Left, to demonstrate decency and tolerance towards competing viewpoints. We must work hard with everyday Australians across our nation to stop the Left's lynch mob mentality—made worse in this case because the lynch mob is Senator Thorpe's own party.</para>
<para>The Left do not debate. The control side fears debate. Instead they abuse and ridicule, silence and divide, and then seek to destroy. We have one flag, we are one community, we are one nation and conservatives celebrate difference of opinion.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Democracy</title>
          <page.no>19</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:57</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'NEILL</name>
    <name.id>140651</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to make a contribution for this short two-minute session about the democracy that we actually get to function in. I want to acknowledge the people of Ukraine and how fragile democracy is, and how set upon they have been by an attack of a hostile nation, with Russia coming over the border.</para>
<para>I experienced these freedoms as the new duty senator for the Labor Party out in the seat of Calare. I was able to go out there last week and see what nine years of government run by those opposite had delivered to the community. I met with quite a number of community leaders who were very dissatisfied with what they'd experienced. They're hoping for a much better outcome to be delivered by a Labor government.</para>
<para>I want to acknowledge Maree Statham, the mayor of the great City of Lithgow, and Cass Coleman, the deputy mayor. I followed that up with a free media interview—another thing we take for great in our great democracy—where 2BS's Jac interviewed me. We talked about the work and care report that was tabled in the Senate recently, and the important work of that to deliver safe and sustainable workplaces and family life for Australians. Then I met with the Bathurst Refugee Support Group, Nick from Vivability and the VIVA cafe—a disability service in Bathurst. I followed that up with a meeting with Robert 'Stumpy' Taylor, the mayor of Bathurst, and then met with Bishop McKenna and a visit to the Cathedral of St Michael and St John. The freedom that we have to move around in our democracy, to have champions in the community who stand up for what's right, is something that we all take far too much for granted. It's a privilege to be here; it's a privilege to serve.</para>
<para>To the people of Ukraine, I want to say to you: we value our democracy, we know you value yours. You are not far from our minds, from our hearts and from our strategic response to you in your hour of need.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>India: Kashmir</title>
          <page.no>19</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:59</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARUQI</name>
    <name.id>250362</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Since 1947, the year the British carved up and departed the Indian subcontinent after centuries of lives taken, of looting and extracting wealth and resources, Kashmir has been a disputed territory. Kashmiris mark 27 October as Black Day, and many around the globe show solidarity with them and their fight for self-determination. For decades India has tried to hide what is happening in Kashmir by silencing Kashmiri voices. The oppression and violence has dramatically escalated under the regime of the current Indian Prime Minister, Narendra Modi.</para>
<para>In 2019 the Indian government revoked the special status of Kashmir, which allowed it some autonomy and imposed a brutal crackdown on dissent. Kashmir was cut off from the world, with internet and mobile communications suspended. Compliant multinational tech companies removed posts—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator Faruqi. The time for this debate has expired.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>MINISTRY</title>
        <page.no>19</page.no>
        <type>MINISTRY</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Temporary Arrangements</title>
          <page.no>19</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:00</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I advise changes to ministerial arrangements due to the budget. Senator Gallagher will be absent from question time today on account of ministerial business relating to budget arrangements. In Senator Gallagher's absence, I will represent the Minister for Finance, the Minister for the Public Service, the Minister for Women, Vice-President of the Executive Council, the Minister for Indigenous Affairs, Cabinet Secretary, the Treasurer, the Minister for Small Business, the Assistant Treasurer and the Minister for the Financial Services. Senator Farrell will represent the Minister for Health and Aged Care, the Minister for Aged Care and the Minister for Sport.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE</title>
        <page.no>20</page.no>
        <type>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Israel</title>
          <page.no>20</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:00</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Not to disappoint Senator Wong, my question is to the Minister representing the Prime Minister, Senator Wong. I refer to the Minister for Foreign Affairs's announcement last Tuesday reversing Australia's recognition of West Jerusalem as the capital of Israel, which was announced with initial denials by the minister's office on the Jewish Holy Day of Simchat Torah and just two weeks out from polling day in the Israeli elections. The Prime Minister has described as 'deeply regrettable' the government's handling of the announcement. He also said that it could have been done better and that it caused distress. Given these acknowledgements of failure, has the Prime Minister spoken with Israeli Prime Minister Lapid to apologise for the ham-fisted handling of this matter?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:01</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I am taking the question representing the Prime Minister but I could equally take it as foreign minister. I want to start by saying that there are few issues that are more central for members of the Jewish community than the status of Jerusalem. It is more than a political issue; it is about history, about faith and about identity. It is at the heart of Israel's origins and its future and, importantly, there can be no lasting peace that does not address its status. The status of Jerusalem is so sensitive that, for the overwhelming majority of the international community, it has remained a final status issue to be resolved as part of any peace negotiations between Israel and the Palestinian people.</para>
<para>What the government has done is reaffirm Australia's previous longstanding and bipartisan position of that fact: that Jerusalem is a final status issue that should be resolved as part of any peace negotiations between Israel and the Palestinian people. I would remind the chamber that, notwithstanding some of the commentary, this has been Australia's position for decades. This was not changed by the Gorton government following the Six-Day War. It was not changed by Malcolm Fraser, Bob Hawke, John Howard or Malcolm Turnbull. Regrettably, there was one exception, which occurred during the period of the Morrison government, a period in which the shadow minister was a member of the cabinet. We know why that was. It was because he thought he could gain political advantage by announcing recognition of Jerusalem as the capital of Israel and relocating our embassy.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Birmingham</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>President, a point of order: the minister has provided one minute and 52 seconds of context for her answer. The sole question was whether the Prime Minister of Australia, Mr Albanese, has spoken with Israeli Prime Minister Lapid to apologise for the handling of the matter.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator Birmingham. There was also a preamble to that question that mentioned holy days and the capital of West Jerusalem. I will listen carefully to the remainder of the minister's answer and I will draw her attention to the question if necessary.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The shadow minister also talked about the phrase 'deeply regrettable'. I think those are my words, and I have said that publicly. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Birmingham, a supplementary question?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:04</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Before the election, the then shadow Attorney-General, Mr Dreyfus, assured the Australian Jewish community there was no difference between the positions of the government—the Labor Party—and the opposition—now the Liberal and National parties—on Israel. As late as last Monday, the foreign minister's office denied any change of position to the media, to Jewish community representatives and to Israel's embassy. Why did the government mislead the government of Israel and the Australian Jewish community groups on this decision?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:05</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>First, if I can just finish this point, I think the shadow minister and the chamber do know that Mr Morrison changed decades of bipartisan position in relation to this matter for the Wentworth by-election. That's the context of it. I want to make this clear. We made very clear, in fact, if you look at what I said in 2018, that we not only opposed what Mr Morrison had done but we would be reversing it. This is in the context of the 2018 decision. With Mr Shorten as leader, we agreed that we would reverse this position should Labor form government. And we made clear prior to the last election that Jerusalem is a final status issue. The reality is there can be no lasting peace that does not address the status of Jerusalem, and we ought not be supporting an approach that undermines this prospect. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Birmingham, a second supplementary question?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:06</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Will the government join with Labor MP Josh Burns in apologising to Australia's Jewish community, and will efforts be made to apologise to the government of Israel? Further, will the government guarantee, consistent with the pre-election statements of Mr Burns and Mr Dreyfus, that it will make no further unilateral changes to Australia's position on matters relating to Israel and the Palestinian people?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:06</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I have said publicly that the timing of the announcement, falling as it did on Simchat Torah, was deeply regrettable. I have said so publicly and I have said so in private. That is my view.</para>
<para>In relation to Israel, I will be clear. I have made sure that the ambassador is aware that I indicate this in the chamber: I have met with the ambassador, and we had a very constructive engagement. What I would say is that we both agree that Australia and Israel have a long and enduring friendship which we will both seek to strengthen.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Budget</title>
          <page.no>21</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:07</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GROGAN</name>
    <name.id>296331</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Prime Minister, Senator Wong. Can the minister update the Senate on Labor's responsible approach to budgeting and how tonight's budget will start the job of budget repair?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:07</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Grogan for her question. Tonight we will see a Labor Treasurer hand down a Labor budget, putting down the foundations of what this government looks to achieve for the Australian people over this term. It will be a responsible budget. It will be a budget that is right for the times and it will be a budget which seeks to ready the country for the future.</para>
<para>Those opposite were the most wasteful government since Federation, overseeing successive budgeting riddled with rorts and slush funds and weighed down with waste. They left us with a trillion dollars of debt but with nothing to show for it. It hurts them, doesn't it? They like to pretend they're the party of sound economic management. They left Australians with a trillion dollars of debt and so little to show for it.</para>
<para>Honourable senators interjecting—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order on both sides of the chamber. Calling out across the chamber is disorderly. Senator Wong has the right to be heard in silence. Minister.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>They spent $5½ billion on submarines we will never see, $19.7 billion in JobKeeper payments to companies with rising revenues, and billions buying votes from slush funds targeting coalition or marginal seats.</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I see the 'Minister for Colour Coded Spreadsheets' is interjecting. Why don't you tell us about that?</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Wong! Resume your seat, Senator McKenzie. When I call the chamber to order and then ask the minister to continue with her answer, I do not expect everyone in the chamber to start shouting and yelling out across the chamber. It is disorderly. The minister needs respect, and I certainly need respect when I call you to order. Minister, do you wish—resume your seat, Senator McKenzie, please.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator McGrath, I have just finished asking for respect.</para>
<para>Senator McGrath interjecting—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I beg your pardon? Seriously! Senator McKenzie.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKenzie</name>
    <name.id>207825</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I draw your attention to the standing orders that ministers need to—instead of screaming at shadow ministers across the chamber in answering questions—go through the chair.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator McKenzie, you would be well aware that I have called the chamber, both sides, to order twice. Minister, please continue.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, President. The Albanese government's first budget will begin the difficult task of budget repair after inheriting a budget in structural deficit and weighed down with record levels of debt, debt which is becoming even more expensive to service. The interest payments on the coalition's debt are one of the fastest growing pressures on the budget. We have spent our first months in office delivering on our promise to undertake an audit of spending, going through the budget to identify where money could be returned or redirected to more quality spending, and you will see the results of that tonight.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Grogan, first supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:11</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GROGAN</name>
    <name.id>296331</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Can the minister update the Senate on the state of the budget that this government inherited?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:11</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>As we know, those opposite doubled the debt before the pandemic and have left the Australian people with a trillion dollars in debt, with so little to show for it. But, most importantly, and Australians came to understand this, they treated taxpayers' money like it was Liberal Party or National Party money, trying to buy votes instead of building value for the country.</para>
<para>Since coming into government, what we know is that the global economic environment is significantly more volatile than it was just a few months ago, whether it's global challenges weighing on household budgets and the economy or cost-of-living pressures which have resulted as a consequence. We have also seen, as I said before, the cost of servicing government debt increase. In fact, revisions in the cost of interest payments on your debt as well as the NDIS are also placing pressure on the budget, unrelated to any policy decision of the government. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired) </inline></para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Grogan, second supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:12</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GROGAN</name>
    <name.id>296331</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Can the minister outline to the Senate how Labor's approach of responsible budgeting contrasts with the Liberals' and Nationals' budget mismanagement?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:12</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Sena</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>tor WONG (—) (): Thank you, Senator Grogan. The fact is, in a time of extreme global volatility and uncertainty, in a time of rising inflation, one of the best defences the nation can deploy is a responsible budget, and that is what you will see tonight from Treasurer Chalmers and Finance Minister Gallagher.</para>
<para>Our response to revenue upgrades will mean that debt will be lower than previously forecast. There will be less debt than under the Liberals but more to show for it. Despite what those opposite might say, they did not leave the budget in a 'strong or improving position'. They did not. So tonight's budget—the government has had to work to find room for billions of dollars of pressures left in the budget and legacy spending that you failed to provision for. We have engaged in responsible decision-making, required to make room for the things that matter. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired) </inline></para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Energy</title>
          <page.no>22</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:13</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DUNIAM</name>
    <name.id>263418</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Minister for Climate Change and Energy, Senator Wong. It follows revelations reported yesterday by Sky News that the Australian Energy Regulator has warned the Albanese government that power prices will rise by up to 50 per cent next year. Even Labor's own budget tonight reportedly concedes that there will be a price rise of between 30 and 40 per cent. Minister, will you now admit that Labor's election promise—made 97 times during the campaign—to Australians that their power bills will be cut by $275 annually will never be delivered?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:14</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I think there is no doubt we all know that Australians are grappling with the impact of rising energy costs—Australian households, Australian business, Australian industry. Those opposite might like to push this aside, but the world is dealing with the most significant shock to energy markets in 50 years due to Russia's prolonged attack on Ukraine. Russia's willingness to weaponise energy has caused havoc in global markets, and it has sent coal and gas prices through the roof. Domestically, what else are we dealing with? A decade of denial and chaos in energy policy which saw four gigawatts of dispatchable energy exit the system. Guess how many gigawatts came in under you? One. Not only have we got a global economic shock and a global shock to energy markets but we are dealing with a decade in which you ensured that supply exited the market. That's the reality.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The P</name>
    <name.id>10000</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister Wong, please resume your seat. Senator Henderson?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Henderson</name>
    <name.id>ZN4</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>President, I just ask you to remind Senator Wong to direct her comments through the chair. Thank you.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator Henderson. I will remind the minister to direct her comments through the chair.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>But I enjoy looking at Senator Duniam so much! We have a nice exchange across the chamber.</para>
<para>Honourable senators interjecting—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>He's one of the people on that side I have some regard for, and he's always happy to have a chat across the chamber. But if it offends people I will turn this way; if they prefer that I talk to the President, that's fine. As I said, we are dealing with energy prices which are rising much faster than was ever anticipated because of the significant shock to energy markets, the weaponisation of energy by Russia, which has caused havoc in the global markets, and also a decade of chaos, which has seen so much dispatchable capacity leave the system and only one gigawatt enter to replace losses.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Duniam, your first supplementary question?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:16</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DUNIAM</name>
    <name.id>263418</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The minister didn't mention $275 once. On 10 October, Alinta Energy CEO Jeff Dimery said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">What cost $1 billion to acquire is going to cost me $8 billion to replace. So let's talk about that and still explain to me how energy prices come down …</para></quote>
<para>Yet a Labor Party source claimed yesterday that the Russia-Ukraine conflict was responsible for these massive power price increases. Who's correct? Is it the Labor source blaming the conflict from well before the election or Mr Dimery, one of our foremost energy experts?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:17</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I think I've actually answered that substantively in my first answer, which pointed to the various factors which are driving up energy costs. You might like to pretend that the government and the country are not trying to grapple with what every country in the world is. If you talk to Germany about what is occurring in relation to energy prices, you will see we are not the only government or the only people who are having to grapple with rising energy costs. The one fact that those opposite just cannot accept is this: renewables are cheaper. Renewables are cheaper, and the fact is that you're allergic to that fact. That you spent so many years fighting each other because you didn't want to accept the facts is, in part, why Australia is in the position that it is in.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Duniam, your second supplementary question?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:18</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DUNIAM</name>
    <name.id>263418</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>In view of these huge increases in energy prices, alongside all the other cost-of-living increases Australians are experiencing, and in the face of a refusal to back in the promise to cut power bills by $275 annually, what does your modelling show about how many Australians will suffer energy poverty under your government's policies?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:18</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para> (—) (): What I can say to you is that the government will deal responsibly with the mess in energy markets that we inherited from you. Unlike you, our response is not going to be to try and hide price increases. Let's remember your great response. The great response of those opposite—the coalition—to rising energy costs on their watch was Mr Taylor making sure they were hidden from the electorate before the election. So I can tell you this: we will go about trying to deal with the cost increases—the result, in great part, of the shock to global energy markets and the mess in the energy markets—responsibly and sensibly. And we are going to do it in a way that actually tries to reform energy markets. You have already seen that. You've already seen that with the Marinus Link, which was announced just last weekend. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organisation</title>
          <page.no>23</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:19</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator COX</name>
    <name.id>296215</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to ask a question to the Minister representing the Minister for the Environment and Water, Minister Wong. CSIRO recently provided a fracking fact sheet in English, which was then translated in language into audio files and provided to First Nations communities. Providing this fact sheet was one of the recommendations of the Northern Territory fracking inquiry. This misleading fact sheet was produced by a CSIRO division that is partially funded by the gas industry, which includes Origin and Santos, and it stated that methane 'may' play a role in climate change, when we know that it definitely plays a role. In fact, methane is 80 times more potent than CO2, and at least 25 per cent of global warming is driven by methane from human actions.</para>
<para>My question is: why are fossil fuel companies allowed to fund, in any proportion, divisions of a government agency—our scientific peak body, which is expected to provide independent advice—especially regarding a controversial topic that these companies have a direct interest in?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:21</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator Cox, for the question. I'm sure she's not surprised to know this is not necessarily something of which I have direct, first-hand knowledge. I haven't seen the fracking fact sheet to which she has referred. But if she is referring to the partial funding that she described to CSIRO and industry partnerships, which I think has been in the media for some time, I would make the point that part of the mission of the CSIRO—which of course is an essential pillar of Australia's national science infrastructure and a great institution responsible for some enormous advances in research with very good liaison and engagement with members of the Australian community—is to work with industry.</para>
<para>I don't know if what the senator is complaining about or—sorry, I wasn't trying to minimise it—referencing is one of the industry partnerships. If she wants to give me more information about that I will be very, very happy to provide that. But if this is a reaction to the CSIRO working with industry, we've taken the view in government, and I did as climate minister many years ago, that it is a good thing for those at the forefront of research, both into climate science and into the response to climate change—how we deal with it—to work closely with industry. Industry has to be part of the solution not just yelled at. In fact, where we have done well as a country on energy, where we have done well as a country on renewable energy, it has been where governments and industry have worked together and the regulatory structure has incentivised industry to do the right thing.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator, your first supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:23</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator COX</name>
    <name.id>296215</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>First Nations communities have long stated their opposition to fracking to their land. Presenting them with this misleading information is outright offensive to their intelligence as traditional owners. Will CSIRO redo the fact sheet with accurate information about the risks of fracking for gas, including the impacts of methane on climate change, to ensure that First Nations communities are not misled and so they are able to adequately be informed of the activities that are proposed on their country?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:23</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I also add to some of the answer: I understand that the member for Lingiari has raised issues in relation to the Jizera program with Minister Husic and has indicated publicly that this matter has been rectified. I will ask my office to liaise with Minister Husic's office about this issue and see if I can provide a little more information about how that was resolved. But it's just been brought to my attention that Ms Scrymgour did raise this with Minister Husic.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Cox, a second supplementary question?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:24</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator COX</name>
    <name.id>296215</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>When will the Labor government listen to the climate science, commit to no new coal and gas projects, and stop allowing these companies to buy social licence and continue their ventures of state capture, all the while without the free, prior and informed consent of First Nations communities?</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Before I call Minister Wong, I will say that I'm really struggling to see how that is a supplementary question. It's really up to Senator Wong whether she answers it or not.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:25</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I'm happy to answer as best I can. In relation to the longstanding assertion from the Greens about energy and coal and gas projects, I make the point again that I have made on multiple occasions in this place: any such approvals would be subject to existing environmental and regulatory frameworks.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Cox</name>
    <name.id>296215</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>There is no climate trigger.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para> I know you want to get some political differentiation on this, but I would also make the point that this is not how the world deals with a global agreement to deal with climate change. The way the world deals with it is by ensuring that, over time, the use of fossil fuels and the use of technologies which are highly carbon polluting is reduced. We have signed up to an ambitious platform and we intend to deliver it. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Australia: Floods</title>
          <page.no>24</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:26</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CICCONE</name>
    <name.id>281503</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister for Emergency Management, Senator Watt. Minister, I note with concern the devastating impact that floods are having on so many Victorians throughout my state. Could you please update the Senate on the current flood and severe weather situation affecting not just Victoria but also New South Wales, Tasmania and Queensland?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:26</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thanks, Senator Ciccone; I know you speak for many people on both sides of this chamber with your level of concern about these floods. As senators will be aware, Australia is now seeing the impact of a third consecutive La Nina event, with flooding impacting many communities across the country. Over the last few weeks we've seen flooding across Victoria, New South Wales, Queensland, Tasmania and now South Australia, and the sad reality is that this dangerous weather is far from over.</para>
<para>Of immediate concern is the heavy rainfall that has impacted north-east New South Wales in the past 24 hours, with the front now moving down the coast towards eastern Victoria. There are multiple emergency warnings current across both Victoria and New South Wales right now, and my message to people in those states is: please listen to the authorities and heed their warnings and advice. We've already, tragically, seen six fatalities as a result of these recent floods, and we don't want to see more.</para>
<para>Last week the Prime Minister and I visited the communities of Bendigo, Deloraine, Latrobe, Launceston and Forbes, where we met with a range of first responders and impacted farmers and communities. I also visited Seymour in central Victoria with Victorian minister Jaclyn Symes and the local federal MP, Sam Birrell, and held an online community forum with leaders from across Shepparton to hear from these communities directly. I've also been in regular contact with many other affected MPs from across all sides of the political divide.</para>
<para>While these floods have been devastating for many, there has been some positive news along the way. During our time in Tasmania, the Prime Minister and I visited Michael Perkins's dairy farm along with Senator Urquhart. During the 2016 floods the Perkins family lost 48 heifers from their Latrobe dairy farm. I was heartened to hear that, through improvements to warning systems, Michael was able to prepare earlier, ultimately keeping all of his animals safe. And that was something I heard throughout Tasmania.</para>
<para>We're thinking of all the communities impacted by these events. We know this repeated, relentless flooding is tough, and we'll be there to support people now and as they recover.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Ciccone, a first supplementary question?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:28</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CICCONE</name>
    <name.id>281503</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, since the beginning of these natural hazard events, what assistance has the federal government provided to communities impacted by the floods?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:29</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>As a government, we are standing with our state and territory counterparts, along with local governments and communities, supporting all of those governments to respond to the particular needs of local communities. As of 5 pm yesterday our government has activated the 13-week disaster recovery allowance payment for this event across 17 council areas in Tasmania, 46 council areas in Victoria and 43 council areas in New South Wales. This provides some income relief for those eligible people who have lost income due to the floods. We have also activated the Australian government disaster recovery payment in 30 council areas across Tasmania and Victoria, providing one-off payments to eligible adults and children.</para>
<para>On top of this, we are also working with the states to deliver joint support to help with clean-up, as well as specialised grants for impacted small businesses and primary producers. I am certainly aware of the significant impact these floods have had on farmers and the infrastructure they rely on to get products to market. We will continue to work with all levels of government across Australia to ensure people get the help they need.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Ciccone, a second supplementary question?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:30</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CICCONE</name>
    <name.id>281503</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, what other support is being provided by the federal government to help communities with their response and recovery efforts?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:30</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>When I spoke to people in Seymour nine days ago, the biggest message they had was the need to get recovery support in quickly. They told me very clearly that any delay in starting their clean-up would lead to longer-term issues. The SES in every state do an excellent job, but this is a big event over a long period of time. So, after consultation with the defence minister, I've approved requests for up to 600 ADF personnel across Victoria and New South Wales at the request of those state governments.</para>
<para>Our fantastic defence forces have been doing an outstanding job helping with sandbagging, evacuations and now supporting clean-up operations, damage assessments and the provision and resupply of essential food and supplies to isolated communities. We've also approved the use of ADF helicopters in both New South Wales and Victoria for everything from mass evacuations, if needed, to lifting heavy equipment. I want to thank the ADF for making these personnel and resources available and, of course, I want to thank those boots on the ground for their efforts in helping these communities recover. I know very well the morale boost it provides to communities. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Building and Construction Industry</title>
          <page.no>25</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:31</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DAVID POCOCK</name>
    <name.id>256136</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is for the Minister for Finance, Senator Gallagher, represented by Minister Wong. The government has said that today's budget is all about delivering on new election commitments. One of those was a commitment:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… protecting the rights for small business, including ensuring security of payment in the building and construction industry.</para></quote>
<para>This is something of concern here in the ACT and across the country. Subcontractors miss out time and again on payments for work done. So my question to the government is: when will you act to implement the recommendations of the Murray review from 2017?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:32</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Pocock for the question. I again—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKenzie</name>
    <name.id>207825</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Here's the answer.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>That's good, isn't it? Isn't that nice?</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Watt</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Cooperation!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>It's called cooperation. We all know that the enormous economic contributions small businesses make to the Australian economy. As importantly, they're the heart of local communities across the country. They employ millions of Australians and they contribute $430 billion to the nation's economy every year.</para>
<para>In addition, we know firsthand how hard the COVID-19 pandemic and associated lockdowns and what occurred through many cities and towns hit many small businesses. I will see if we can get more information in relation to the 2017 report to which you refer, but I will say that there are a number of measures that the government has already put in place, with $18.6 million to help support small businesses adapt and build resilience through digital technology. Small businesses will also have access to tax incentives to train and upskill employees and improve their digital and tech capacity under reforms to be legislated by the government. The technology investment boost and skills and training boost will be backdated to 29 March so that small-business owners can receive the benefits. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRES</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Pocock, a first supplementary question?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:34</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DAVID POCOCK</name>
    <name.id>256136</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Electrical Trade Union has said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Too many workers and subbies are being left in limbo through no fault of their own.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Delivering security of payments will simply create a better, fairer industry where subbies can rely on the commitments made to them and employees can have certainty that their job will be there tomorrow.</para></quote>
<para>Does the minister agree with this?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:34</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I think we would all agree that if people are owed money, unless it is impossible for obviously issues of solvency, those contracts should be honoured. I think that would be a fairly logical approach. Looking at contractual requirements, I have a brief that tells me about unfair contract terms. I am unsure—and I'm afraid I haven't been able to ascertain—the extent to which that applies to the particular factual circumstance the senator outlined, but we've introduced legislation to make unfair contract terms illegal so that small businesses can negotiate fair agreements with larger partners. This issue has been raised over many years—the disparity in negotiating power between big business and small business. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Pocock, a second supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:35</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DAVID POCOCK</name>
    <name.id>256136</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Minister. On Thursday the government will move to introduce legislation abolishing the already defunded ABCC. Don't you think ensuring subbies are paid is a more urgent legislative reform?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:36</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I will answer what I am able to. I'm not sure the extent to which that is a supplementary question. I know Senator Pocock has taken a different view on this—a view closer to the coalition. I think the abolition of the ABCC was very clear to Australians when they voted for the Albanese Labor government, and we have been clear why—we don't think there should be two sets of laws for workers in this country. It is wrong to say that the ABCC was able to deal with a whole range of criminal matters. We know those matters are dealt with by the criminal law. Our position in relation to that has been clear and it was articulated publicly ahead of the election.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Queensland: Roads</title>
          <page.no>26</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:37</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CANAVAN</name>
    <name.id>245212</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Prime Minister, Senator Wong. Minister, on 22 January 2019 Anthony Albanese put out a press release titled 'Rockhampton Ring Road a certainty under Labor'. The Rockhampton Ring Road is the biggest infrastructure project in regional Queensland and it is already out to tender. Yesterday the ABC reported that the $800 million earmarked by the coalition for the ring-road project has been put off for a few years. Local businesses have contacted me and the member for Capricornia, Michelle Landry, furious about this broken promise by the Prime Minister. Mr Albanese's comment that it was a certainty had encouraged many local businesses to spend thousands of dollars on their tender applications. Minister, is the only certainty that Australians can bank on that this government will break its promises?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:38</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I've seen some of the social media by Senator Canavan on this.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Canavan</name>
    <name.id>245212</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I'm glad you follow me, Senator Wong.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Yes, avidly. I particularly liked you in your high-vis vest in your backyard. I thought that was great. It's clearly a very dangerous backyard you've got! I should have put that on when we were doing the kids' trampoline. It's a very risky backyard there. Anyway, I make these points. First, the government is committing—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Wong, please resume your seat. Senator Bandt—I'm sorry; I beg your pardon; my bad. Obviously my glasses need renewing. My apologies; I thought you were someone from the other place. I'm sorry to have interrupted you, Minister. Please continue.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Obviously the minister for infrastructure is being represented by—</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>No, that's fine. I'm answering the question. I'm just trying to be helpful, Senator Canavan.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! Senator Canavan, you've put your question.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Obviously Senator Watt is more across this than I would be. I understand, in relation to that particular project, it is incorrect to assert that it is being cut. It is the case that those opposite, as was the habit of the Morrison government, made a lot of announcements without making sure that those announcements could actually be delivered. It is an extraordinary thing, isn't it, to have a government that actually wants to make sure that, when it announces projects, it is funding them in a way that can make sure—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister Wong, please resume your seat.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Canavan</name>
    <name.id>245212</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>This is a point of order on relevance. The question is about a statement that the Prime Minister made. It is about the article about the government's agenda. But all I have heard from Senator Wong is blaming the previous government here.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>There's to be no commentary, thank you, Senator Canavan. Please resume your seat.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Canavan</name>
    <name.id>245212</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>She's insulting the businesses of Central Queensland.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Please resume—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Canavan, please resume your seat. I remind senators: if you are rising on a point of order, the point of order is to be short and sharp and is not to have commentary. Minister Wong is being relevant.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I was trying to explain what was occurring in relation to the project in question. We have reviewed projects in the infrastructure program to better align investment with market capacity, consulting with the states and the territories through this process. This is what responsible governments do. I will be very clear: I understand that the $823 million for the Rockhampton Ring Road remains in the budget. It remains in the budget, but unlike the former government we're actually being upfront about project delivery time lines. That's the responsible thing to do.</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator McKenzie, you can yell all you like, but an announcement is not delivery. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I remind you, Senator McKenzie, that calling out across the chamber is—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator McKenzie, it does not require commentary; I am drawing you to order. Senator Canavan, a first supplementary question?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:41</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CANAVAN</name>
    <name.id>245212</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>This next question is on behalf of those businesses, so it might be useful if the senator did not yell at them from here in Canberra. As I mentioned, those people—those mum-and-dad businesses—have spent thousands of dollars on the word of the now Prime Minister that this was a certainty. What do you propose they do now, Minister Wong, given they haven't been able to rely on the words of the Prime Minister?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:42</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I'm asked about local businesses, and I understand that the local business organisation Capricorn Enterprise in fact warned you. It warned the former government there weren't enough construction tradies to fill the infrastructure pipeline. You ignored it. This is the problem with a government—</para>
<para>Honourable senators interjecting—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Wong, please resume your seat. Senator Canavan, I haven't called you; I am calling the chamber to order. When the minister is trying to answer the question, there needs to be silence.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Canavan</name>
    <name.id>245212</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Madam President, a point of order on relevance again. As I mentioned, this question was about the businesses in the local area and what they've spent. Again, the foreign minister is talking about the former government. That is clearly not relevant.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Canavan, you've called the point of order. The last time you stood and called a point of order—</para>
<para>Governm ent senators interjecting—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order on my right! On the first point of order you called, I asked you for no commentary. And you've completely ignored me, and there was commentary again. I do believe that Minister Wong is being relevant. I will listen carefully.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Canavan seems to be asserting that Capricorn Enterprise, the business chamber, is irrelevant to a question about business.</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Maybe you should explain that to them, Senator Canavan. The reality is that the money remains in the budget for that project. There are over 700 regional budget commitments tonight, no matter the scare campaign from those opposite. The reality is, as with so much in the modern Liberal Party and modern National Party, they think that, when they announce something, they've delivered it.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order, Senator McGrath!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>You think that, when you've announced something, you've delivered it. The reality is: you couldn't deliver it, and you weren't actually interested in doing what you had to do to deliver it. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<para>Honourable senators interjecting—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! I have a senator on his feet waiting for silence so he can be called. Senator Canavan, a second supplementary question?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:44</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CANAVAN</name>
    <name.id>245212</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, the Prime Minister has broken his promise to reduce power bills by $275 a year. He's broken his promise on methane emissions from cattle. And now he is breaking his promise to fund infrastructure. Why is the Prime Minister so gutless that he could not be upfront with the Australian people about his plans before they voted for him?</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Canavan, I ask you to withdraw that comment.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CANAVAN</name>
    <name.id>245212</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>What? How is that unparliamentary?</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>You made a slur against the Prime Minister. I asked—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The</name>
    <name.id>10000</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Canavan, it's not a debating point.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CANAVAN</name>
    <name.id>245212</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Can I ask you to reflect on that ruling, Madam President, because I have heard much worse in this chamber. I did not reflect on the Prime Minister's—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Canavan, I've asked you to withdraw; I expect you to withdraw.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CANAVAN</name>
    <name.id>245212</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I will withdraw and reword the question. Can I have that opportunity, and could I ask that you do reflect on that decision?</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I'm happy to reflect.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAN</name>
    <name.id>245212</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you very much.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you for withdrawing.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CANAVAN</name>
    <name.id>245212</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>It seems a little inconsistent. So have I got a full clock?</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Canavan, resume your seat for a moment, please.</para>
<para>An honourable senator interjecting—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! I ask all senators in this place to be respectful. Senator Canavan, I will give you the opportunity to rephrase that question. I'm happy to reset the clock, but I would ask you, when I give my directions, to stop responding. You're not in a debate with me. Please continue.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CANAVAN</name>
    <name.id>245212</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The Prime Minister has broken his promise to reduce power bills by $275 a year. He's broken his promise on methane emissions from cattle, and now he is breaking his promise to fund infrastructure. Why has the Prime Minister not had the courage to be upfront with the Australian people about his plans before they voted for him?</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:46</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Prime Minister is a man of courage and a man of authenticity. Those opposite might not like that fact, but that's what he is. No amount of coming in here and asking such—really, Senator Canavan, if you want to give a speech, why don't you just give a speech? That's not even a question here in question time, is it? It's just a little bit of diatribe, trying to get a little bit of invective up in the chamber. It's not actually seeking any information, which is what question time should be.</para>
<para>I've made it clear that there are 700 regional budget commitments tonight that relate to the regions, which includes $9.6 billion of election commitments for infrastructure. The project to which Senator Canavan refers remains in the budget.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Australia: Natural Disasters</title>
          <page.no>29</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:47</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LAMBIE</name>
    <name.id>250026</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is for the Minister for Emergency Management, Minister Watt. Minister, you said this week that you're talking to the defence minister about the need for a stand-by emergency response workforce to clean up after the fires and floods across the country. I am with you on that, but I can assure you we are flying by the seat of our pants when it comes to a national emergency response in this country to deal with national disasters. I'm just wondering what, exactly, you've been speaking to the defence minister about?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:48</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thanks, Senator Lambie, for your interest in this issue. Obviously, north-west Tasmania, an area you're very familiar with, has experienced floods over the last couple of weeks, so these issues are very topical in that part of the world. It has been reported a number of times now that our government is giving consideration to how we as a country should properly resource disaster management in terms of both the immediate response and the longer term recovery. I think the reality that we're all seeing unfold before our eyes is that climate change is here. We are seeing more regular, more frequent and more intense natural disasters, and we haven't been well enough prepared as a country. Frankly, the federal government hasn't been well enough prepared in the past either, and this is one example of that.</para>
<para>I have begun some discussions with the defence minister, along with other colleagues and a range of non-profit groups, about how we can make sure that as a country we do have, effectively, the workforce—whether it be paid or volunteer—to cope with the size of the task that we are now facing. Even with what we're facing at the moment, and this is just in October, I've already updated the chamber about the number of ADF personnel we've activated across Victoria and New South Wales. They, of course, supplement the many hundreds and even thousands of SES personnel, paid emergency services workers, volunteers and other groups as well, which again shows the size of the task.</para>
<para>This work we're undertaking is at a very early stage. We are open to a range of options about how we meet the future workforce needs. The point about the ADF—and I mentioned this in my earlier answer—is: quite apart from the incredible practical difference they make on the ground, helping people clean up and recover from disasters, they provide an enormous morale boost to communities, when the trucks roll in. The reality is: we need to make sure we don't stretch them too far when they have a core job, that being protecting the nation, as well.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Lambie, first supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:50</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LAMBIE</name>
    <name.id>250026</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, the ADF have said that disaster clean-up is becoming a distraction from their main job, which is to protect the country. We're not going to set up this new workforce overnight. We know our third La Nina period is going to happen over summer. What provisions, if any, are in today's budget that will set up an emergency response workforce, or are we not there yet?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:50</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Lambie, this being my first budget participating as a minister, I'm not about to give away details of the Treasurer's budget. I can say there are going to be some very strong commitments in the disaster management space tonight. You may be aware we made an election commitment to provide a grant to Disaster Relief Australia, a veteran led volunteer organisation you're no doubt familiar with. We're fighting hard to make sure we deliver that commitment. Of course, any work the federal government does in this space is to supplement the leadership role that states and territories play. We don't want to come in over the top of states and territories. We want to supplement them with ADF work resources, volunteer organisations and a range of NGOs as well.</para>
<para>The former government had 10 years to get these things right. They didn't. We're now here. Now we're trying to fix their mess in this space, as we are in so many others.</para>
<para>Opposition senators interjecting—</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Actually, we are taking responsibility. It's a foreign concept, I understand. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Lambie, second supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:51</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LAMBIE</name>
    <name.id>250026</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Right now, we know that we don't have nearly enough boots on the ground; that's not going to change. Unemployment is crazy low right now. Have you asked your department to look at how we recruit people to do these things? If so, what models are they considering?</para>
<para>Opposition senators interjecting—</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:52</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I can understand yet again why the opposition are so sensitive about this. They had 10 years to do something about these issues and did nothing. Here we are, fixing their mess, making sure we are properly prepared as a country for natural disasters, making sure we have a workforce to deal with these events. Rather than running around pretending climate change isn't real, we're actually taking a responsible approach to this.</para>
<para>I might answer your question in two ways, Senator Lambie. The first answer is: I have seen myself publicity about the fact our government intends to launch a recruitment campaign for ADF personnel more generally. Separate to that: in the disaster space, as I said, we made an election commitment to fund one particular organisation to add to the ADF work, which adds itself to the SES and other state based organisations. We're in discussions with a range of other not-for-profit groups about what can be done. I'd be more than happy to take any views you have, Senator Lambie, about how we can do this better as a country, because I know you, unlike a number of other people, are serious about these issues.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Australia-Japan Joint Declaration on Security Cooperation</title>
          <page.no>30</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:53</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BILYK</name>
    <name.id>HZB</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is for the Minister for Foreign Affairs, Senator Wong. Last weekend Australia and Japan signed a joint security declaration. Can the minister advise the Senate on how the agreement will strengthen our relationship with Japan?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:53</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Bilyk for her question and acknowledge her ongoing interest in foreign policy. I know she and others share the desire of mine and many others in this chamber to strengthen Australia's relationship in our region.</para>
<para>Japan is a special friend of Australia. They are our special strategic partner, and we are natural partners. There are many aspects to our partnership. Obviously trade, investment, defence and security ties bind us, but we also have a deep affinity between our peoples and, importantly, shared values which go to democracy, the defence of human rights, free trade and a rules based international order. There is already a very strong relationship with Japan. I would, in a moment of bipartisanship, recognise that both sides of politics—governments of both political persuasions—over the years have invested in the Australia-Japan relationship, and I acknowledge the work of Senator Payne in the period that she was foreign minister in that regard.</para>
<para>The government is working to make that relationship stronger. It was my privilege, and my first overseas trip as foreign minister, to attend the Quad Leaders' Summit. In the first five months of the government, the Prime Minister has met Prime Minister Kishida four times and I have met the foreign minister, Mr Hayashi, four times, as well as many other ministerial engagements. Importantly, over the weekend, at the annual Australia-Japan Leaders' Meeting in Perth, Prime Minister Anthony Albanese and the Prime Minister of Japan, Prime Minister Kishida, signed a renewed joint declaration on security cooperation. This is a declaration to chart a path for defence and security cooperation between Australia and Japan for the next decade.</para>
<para>Our strategic environment is changing, and our partnership has to evolve. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Bilyk, your first supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:55</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BILYK</name>
    <name.id>HZB</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you for that answer, Minister. Can you also inform the Senate of how the declaration has been updated since 2007?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:55</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>As I said, we all know that our strategic environment is changing rapidly; the circumstances that the nation faces are more challenging than at any time since World War II. In light of that we have to work together, and our partnership with Japan must evolve to meet the growing risks. And we have to work together to pursue our shared values and strategic interests. So the renewed declaration sets out how Australia and Japan will work together to deepen our strategic partnership as we pursue and help realise a common vision for a free, open and resilient Indo-Pacific—a region that is inclusive and a region that is resilient.</para>
<para>The declaration includes collaboration in areas such as climate change, health security, humanitarian assistance, energy transition, disaster response and maritime security. Importantly, leaders also announced that the Japan Self-Defense Forces will train and exercise in northern Australia. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Bilyk, a second supplementary question?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:56</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BILYK</name>
    <name.id>HZB</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Can the minister advise why it matters to the region and to the world for Australia to deepen cooperation with Japan?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:57</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Japan and Australia share a common goal: a region that is stable, that is prosperous and that is respectful of sovereignty, and a world in which differences and disputes are resolved by international law and norms, not simply by power and size. We also have an interest in nuclear nonproliferation. Japan's Prime Minister Kishida hails from Hiroshima and he has made clear his aim for pursuing denuclearisation. We share his ambition.</para>
<para>I particularly want to underline in this chamber a very important part of the statement between the—</para>
<para>Honourable senators interjecting—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>a very important part of the statement between Prime Minister Kishida and Prime Minister Albanese, which was the condemnation of Russia's threat to use nuclear weapons against Ukraine. It is serious, it is unacceptable and it is an unacceptable menace to the peace and security of the international community. It is important today that I repeat that condemnation here in the Senate chamber. Any use of nuclear weapons will be met with a resolute and unequivocal response. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Cybersecurity</title>
          <page.no>31</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:58</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PATERSON</name>
    <name.id>144138</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Minister for Home Affairs, Senator Watt. On 13 October, Medibank released a statement confirming it had been subject to a cyberattack and that it was taking offline some data and policy systems to mitigate the impact on customers. On 19 October, a week after Medibank informed its customers, the Minister for Cyber Security issued a press release. Why did it take the minister a week to publicly respond to yet another significant cyberincident?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:58</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator Paterson, for your question. I don't monitor the Minister for Home Affairs's diary as closely as Senator Paterson seems to, but I can tell him that from the moment this breach was reported the Minister for Home Affairs and the government as a whole have taken action, just as we did in relation to the Optus breach.</para>
<para>This matter is under investigation by the relevant authorities, including the Australian Signals Directorate and the Australian Federal Police. It's exactly the same approach that we took in relation to the Optus breach, because we do take these issues seriously—unlike the former government, who spent 10 years doing very little about this. They did nothing to address the issue of penalties against corporations who fail to meet consumer expectations around data protection.</para>
<para>I know that now the Minister for Home Affairs and the government as a whole are working closely with Medibank Private to provide all the support possible to help resolve this situation and protect those customers who have been affected. Medibank Private is receiving ongoing technical advice and assistance from the relevant Australian government agencies, including, as I say, the Australian Signals Directorate and the AFP. The AFP has launched Operation Pallidus to investigate the Medibank Private data breach. Medibank Private advises that it has begun to make direct contact with affected customers and I encourage anyone who thinks they may be affected by this recent Medibank Private cyberincident to contact 134246. For Medibank Private customers, the number is 132331.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Paterson, first supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:00</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PATERSON</name>
    <name.id>144138</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>When was the minister first informed of the attack?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:00</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I don't think Senator Paterson would expect me to know that level of detail about another minister's operations, but I'm happy to take the question on notice. Again, what I do know is that the minister has been highly attentive to these issues, as she was in relation to the Optus data breach as well. Unlike the former government, we are taking serious action on privacy matters and data breaches by large corporations. We're introducing legislation just this week in only the sixth sitting of parliament—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister Watt, please resume your seat. Senator Paterson.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Paterson</name>
    <name.id>144138</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Madam President, the point of order is on relevance. I asked the minister when the minister was informed of this attack and he said that he didn't know and that he would take it on notice. Everything he has added since then is not relevant to the question.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>He's entitled to continue. Thank you, Senator Paterson. He has taken it on notice. Minister Watt.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>It's interesting that Senator Paterson jumps the minute his own former government's record is called into question and that's because that record was so bad. Unlike the government that was led by those opposite, our government is working closely with businesses, the community and our international partners to progress initiatives that enhance Australia's response to cyberincidents and support a whole-of-nation uplift in cyber-resilience. We take these issues seriously. We're introducing legislation this week to strengthen penalties. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Paterson, a second supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:01</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PATERSON</name>
    <name.id>144138</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank the minister for taking the previous question on notice and I look forward to the answer to that question. My second supplementary question is: when did the minister first speak to the CEO of Medibank to discuss this attack?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:02</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I'm happy to take that question on notice as well.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Wong</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I ask that further questions be placed on the <inline font-style="italic">Notice Paper</inline>.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE: ADDITIONAL ANSWERS</title>
        <page.no>32</page.no>
        <type>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE: ADDITIONAL ANSWERS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Cybersecurity</title>
          <page.no>32</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:02</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I table a response to questions that I took on notice on 28 September 2022. They were questions asked by Senator Roberts. I have written to him and provided the answer to those questions in relation to the Optus data breach, but I thought I should table the answer to those questions as well.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE: TAKE NOTE OF ANSWERS</title>
        <page.no>32</page.no>
        <type>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE: TAKE NOTE OF ANSWERS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Answers to Questions</title>
          <page.no>32</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:03</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'SULLIVAN</name>
    <name.id>283585</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate take note of the answers given by ministers to questions without notice asked by Opposition senators today.</para></quote>
<para>Israel has been a close and dear friend of Australia for decades. The Australia-Israel bilateral relationship has been one of the more important pillars in Australia's international relations since the end of the Second World War. It should be remembered that Australia was one of 37 countries that voted in favour of admitting Israel into the United Nations. Even before 1949, Australia's connection to the Jewish homeland dated back to the Great War, which saw Australia's involvement in pushing back the Ottoman Empire, as part of the Sinai and Palestine campaign. Therefore, it is very disappointing—indeed, concerning—that the Albanese Labor government has made the decision to reverse the previous government's decision to no longer continue to recognise West Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. The decision was rushed, was not considered properly and was reckless. Even after reassurances to stakeholders from senior Labor government ministers that there will be no difference in the party's policies, they have still taken this decision and misled the Australian people and, indeed, the Jewish community.</para>
<para>Mr Dreyfus claimed on 6 March 2022, ahead of the May election, that, across domestic politics, Australia spoke with one voice. Mr Burns, the member for Macnamara, said on 18 March 22, also ahead of the May election, that, irrespective of who formed government, the Jewish community should feel proud that their interests would be safeguarded. Despite these pre-election assurances, on 17 October media reported that the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade website had removed references to the recognition of West Jerusalem as Israel's capital and the commitment to move the embassy from Tel Aviv. Then, later that day, a spokesperson for foreign minister Senator Wong told media that the former government had made the decision to recognise West Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. Stakeholders, including in the Australian Jewish community and Israel's ambassador to Australia, were also assured that same day by the minister's office that there was no change. But less than 24 hours later, on 18 October, the foreign minister announced at a press conference that Australia would reverse the recognition of West Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.</para>
<para>Labor's announcement occurred on the Jewish holiday, the day of Simchat Torah, and just two weeks before a heavily contested Israeli election. The Australian government failed to consult with the Australian Jewish community. Indeed, the Israeli ambassador to Australia and Israel's government found out about the announcement from media. Israel's Prime Minister Lapid said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">In light of the way this decision was made … we can only hope that the Australian government manages other matters more seriously and professionally.</para></quote>
<para>The member for Macnamara apologised to the Jewish community for the timing and handling of this appalling announcement. Will the Prime Minister do the same?</para>
<para>The Middle East is and remains one of the most strategically important places on the planet. The coalition remains committed to our longstanding position that Australia remains a strong supporter of the two-state solution in which Israel and a future Palestine state coexist in peace and security within internationally recognised borders. So I urge the Albanese government to apologise to Israeli Prime Minister Lapid and undo this unwise decision. Lasting peace between Israel and its neighbours is in the interests of every peace-loving member of the international community. After all, we are all God's children. The fact that Jerusalem is the capital is not just an opinion; it's a fact.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:07</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PRATT</name>
    <name.id>I0T</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The opposition has risen to take note of answers to all the questions they asked of all our ministers today. And it's little wonder, given how they've struggled to find any political or tangible ground on which to mount a political case on any issue today, whether it's the recognition of West Jerusalem, whether it's the Rockhampton ring road, whether it's Medibank and cybersecurity or whether it's power prices. I'm going to start today with power prices, because it is probably the issue of most significant importance to most Australians.</para>
<para>The government has been working to grapple with rising energy costs, unlike those opposite, from whom we saw some 22 energy policies in half a dozen years and as many ministers. Those opposite might like to push aside the fact that they didn't deal with any of these underlying issues when it came to household energy costs and simply say, 'Well, what are you going to do about it?' The simple fact is that we have outlined a very clear platform and a very clear set of energy policies which will create certainty for energy producers, will create certainty for energy producers who are producing renewable energy, will create certainty for industry and, most importantly, will stabilise the system for households. In stabilising the system for households, we are able to look to starting to manage rising energy costs.</para>
<para>Many Australians have actually seen their energy costs go down if they've been fortunate enough to have been able to directly invest in renewable energy, such as rooftop solar, in their own households. It's this kind of individual household vision that we know we need to embrace as a whole nation. It is, of course, not without its complexity, which is why we need a suite of policies, such as Rewiring the Nation, our electric vehicle policies and a whole range of policies on which we will get more detail in tonight's budget. These policies are playing a key role and will continue to play a key role into the future in managing household energy costs.</para>
<para>There is, of course, a massive tension right across Australian households which are struggling with the rising cost of living. I know we will be very mindful of this in this budget, but, when the opposition seeks to ask questions about power prices and the Australian Energy Regulator, it's very apparent that they have little regard for their own record and the lack of attention that they have given this incredibly important issue.</para>
<para>We are part of a government on this side that will deal responsibly with the mess we have before us in energy markets. Our response is not to try and hide price increases, as those opposite did. What we saw from those opposite on their watch was, in fact, Mr Taylor hiding those costs from the electorate right before the election. He didn't dare show Australians the data about their very real household energy costs rising. Is it little wonder that those opposite would now like to take the legacy of those price increases which happened on their watch and which households still feel the pain of today and try and cast the blame and legacy for that on our shoulders? We are here for transparency and to address those underlying issues in our energy markets and energy production.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:12</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CHANDLER</name>
    <name.id>264449</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to take note of the answers given by the foreign minister in relation to the appalling decision to insult one of our international partners and allies by refusing to recognise its capital. It speaks volumes that, in relation to the decision of the Labor government to refuse to recognise the capital of Israel, their announcement was warmly welcomed by not one but two prescribed terrorist organisations. Palestinian Islamic Jihad called it a courageous step and a victory. Hamas welcomed Labor's announcement, calling it a step in the right direction. To make things worse, the Israeli government was given no advance warning whatsoever that the Labor government would refuse to recognise their capital.</para>
<para>The decision was, effectively, announced via the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade's website. Then, the government spent a day denying that anything had actually changed. Now Senator Wong, in her answer today, says that she had made clear that Labor would take this action. But the fact is that less than 24 hours before making this decision her office was telling the Israeli ambassador and Jewish stakeholders that no such decision had been made. Yet the very next day, on an important Jewish holiday, the government revealed that it had indeed decided to refuse to recognise West Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. The handling of this announcement was nothing short of atrocious, but it is the substance of the decision which is wrong, unhelpful and insulting, and that is why it has been welcomed by two terrorist groups and met with shock by a friend and an ally.</para>
<para>The capital of Israel, according to Israel, is Jerusalem. The idea that Australia should reject Israel's acknowledgement of its own capital is wrong. It does not assist or help the peace process, and it diminishes Australia for our government to refuse to recognise the capital of a friend and ally. The coalition opposes the decision made by the government and supports Australia's continued recognition of West Jerusalem as Israel's capital.</para>
<para>Australia is of course a strong supporter of a peaceful two-state solution. As has been pointed out by many in recent days, there is no prospect whatsoever that a two-state solution would require the state of Israel to abandon West Jerusalem. The Labor government is wrong to suggest that Australia should deny recognition of Israel's capital until there is a two-state solution, because doing so does not in any way advance that peaceful solution. To the contrary, it can only serve to embolden terror organisations like Hamas and the Palestinian Islamic Jihad.</para>
<para>There is a long list of serious questions to be asked and answered about the making and the announcement of this decision. Aside from Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad, whose interests were served by the making of this decision? Who altered the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade's website to remove recognition of West Jerusalem as Israel's capital? On what basis did they do so, given media reports that a cabinet decision on this matter was made after the website had already been altered?</para>
<para>This is a Labor government that is yet to find time to apply sanctions in relation to human rights abuses in Xinjiang, that is yet to find the time to take any diplomatic action in response to the mass murder of women and children in Iran and that has not announced any action to have the Iranian regime removed from the UN Commission on the Status of Women but that does have time to sit around the cabinet table and decide to refuse to recognise the capital city of an ally and our partner.</para>
<para>Like I said at the start of my remarks, it is an incredibly disappointing decision by the Labor government. The process was wrong and the decision was wrong. I know that I and many of my colleagues look forward to holding the government to account for this atrocious decision.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:17</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BILYK</name>
    <name.id>HZB</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I too rise to take note of answers given during question time today. I'm also going to speak, as did my colleague, on the question that Senator Duniam asked Senator Wong with regard to electricity prices.</para>
<para>We know that there's been a decade of denial and chaos in energy policy. We know there were 22 energy policies in the nine years of the previous government, and we know that none of those were really acted on. I was a bit surprised that this question actually came from Senator Duniam because Senator Duniam, as a Tasmanian senator, must be aware of the great announcement that Mr Bowen made last week with regard to the Marinus Link, which involves a cooperation between the Tasmanian Liberal Premier and the federal government. It's going to be great for Tasmania, which is a really important issue, and I'll come back to it in a minute.</para>
<para>To get back to the nine years of the previous government, we've taken the stand that we will deal responsibly with the mess that was left to us in the energy market—the mess we inherited from the other side. So we won't be doing things like the former energy minister, who I think is now the current shadow Treasurer, did. He not only knew that electricity prices were skyrocketing but he also ordered that that information be hidden from the Australian people before the election. I think that speaks volumes about the other side having not been honest with the Australian people. I want to clarify that the member for Hume actually amended the industry code for electricity retailers on 6 April, which was four days before the election was called, to delay the release of information of increases in the default market offered for New South Wales, Queensland and South Australia till after the election. He hid that. It's really well known everywhere that the previous government left Australia overexposed and underdone: overexposed to international fossil fuel markets; underdone on the cheapest form of new energy, firmed renewables.</para>
<para>Our plan, as I said, is to take a steady approach. We've already started working on that. Only last week Minister Bowen, in regard to us trying to get more renewables into the system, made some announcements, and I'll talk about a couple of those. Marinus Link: more than $2.5 billion will go into Marinus Link. There will be access to a concessional loan from Rewiring the Nation through the Clean Energy Finance Corporation for approximately 80 per cent of the project cost of Marinus Link, with the additional 20 per cent to be an equity investment shared equally, as I said, between the Commonwealth, the Tasmanian and, because Victoria is linked in, the Victorian parliaments. That will get this critical project off the ground.</para>
<para>This project will build two undersea transmission cables connecting Tasmania and Victoria. It will mean an estimated 1,400 jobs in my home state of Tasmania, 1,400 jobs in Victoria and up to $4.5 billion in positive net market benefits. Marinus Link is expected to cut at least 140 million tonnes of CO2 to 2050, the equivalent of taking approximately one million cars off the road. Yet we get sniping from that side, because there are a lot of sore losers on that side. We certainly see that in every question time: the interjections, the sniping—from not all of them, I'll admit. Certainly, from where I sit here in the second row, I can hear a lot of them, particularly in the front row and over in that area. I don't think they have yet come to accept that they are now the opposition. I think a number of them like to snipe away at anything, and this was another way of doing it.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:22</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Sen</name>
    <name.id>263528</name.id>
    <electorate>Northern Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>ator NAMPIJINPA PRICE () (): I rise to take note of the answer from the Minister representing the Prime Minister with regard to the Rockhampton Ring Road. We are beginning to see a pattern emerge here of this government's continual backflipping on commitments that are vital to projects in the regions. For Senator Wong to attempt to belittle the former coalition government's $1 billion-plus commitment to the Rockhampton Ring Road as a non-budgeted, undefined commitment when it had already gone to tender is a huge insult. It's an insult to the businesses and to the families of Rockhampton. Labor's delaying of federal funding for the Rockhampton Ring Road is very distressing for the community and driving uncertainty for businesses. The community is crying out for this critical infrastructure project. Businesses in the area now have to hope to win work in the short to medium term for the ring-road.</para>
<para>Labor members across all levels of government, including local government and state government, must demand that Anthony Albanese deliver this much-needed funding for the Rockhampton region. The project would have delivered 17.4 kilometres of new roadway, incorporating 18 bridges totalling six kilometres in length. The new ring-road would have reduced congestion and improved safety for Rockhampton by providing an alternative route, especially for heavy vehicles. But this insult to local businesses and to their families demonstrates that this government has no qualms about abandoning the regions when the regions need them the most.</para>
<para>It is deeply concerning for me as a representative of the Northern Territory because of the commitments that have been made to the Northern Territory. It is regional Australia that supports the entire nation in energy production, agriculture and food, yet this government continues to break promises and, instead, is making life harder for those in the regions. So I am now concerned: what else is this government prepared to slash for the regions in this up and coming budget?</para>
<para>The Outback Way, linking industries and tourism from Queensland, through the Northern Territory, over to Western Australia is a vital piece of infrastructure, going forward, to three regions. Do the transport logistics hubs that support our resources sector, not only for the Northern Territory but for the entire nation, now hang in the balance? These hubs would support jobs for Alice Springs, Tennant Creek, Katherine and the communities in-between, where some of our most marginalised Australians live, where some of our most marginalised Australians require opportunities to benefit their lives as well as those in the regions who are, like all other Australians, facing increases to their electricity bills.</para>
<para>We've heard another promise—we heard it over and over again in the lead-up to the election—of $275 being slashed from everyday Australians' electricity bills: another promise down the gurgler. So I'm deeply concerned for the regions, for the Northern Territory, for some of the places that are out of sight and out of mind to the rest of Australia. Make no mistake, this budget will be propping up the cities, propping up those who already have availability of services and opportunities, and it will be propping them up at the expense of those in the regions.</para>
<para>This is not a happy time, going forward, for regional Australia. I'm sure that will be evidenced later tonight, when we bear witness to how the regions are going to miss out.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organisation</title>
          <page.no>35</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:27</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator COX</name>
    <name.id>296215</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate take note of the answer given by the Minister for Foreign Affairs (Senator Wong) to a question without notice she asked today relating to a fact sheet produced by the Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organisation.</para></quote>
<para>This fact sheet is just another example of the fossil fuel industries trying to buy their social licence and coercing communities in order to prop up what is a dying industry. We know that the fossil fuel industries have well and truly infiltrated the major parties; that's no secret. What is the most disappointing is seeing this extend to our national peak scientific body.</para>
<para>Minister Wong referred to them as an essential piece of infrastructure—a pillar, in fact. If that is so, then maybe it's time this government committed to giving adequate funding to CSIRO, restoring what was cut under the previous government and taking us to a space where CSIRO would not have to take a page out of the major parties' playbook and accept money from fossil fuel companies. Currently, Australia has the lowest investment in research and development in comparison to other OECD countries. I hope to see in tonight's budget that this investment increases and that the new government takes this seriously. The Greens have a policy to increase that to four per cent of the GDP, under our science portfolio.</para>
<para>The fact of the matter is that this fact sheet was created to fulfil a recommendation about a fracking inquiry. The intention was to ensure that First Nations communities were made aware of the risks associated with fracking, to extend respect, to make sure that the voices of First Nations people and their ability to uphold their sovereignty, their rights and their responsibilities of caring for country were able to be heard—making sure that they had all the information that was available to them.</para>
<para>First Nations communities deserve better. We need and demand that accurate information is not funded by companies that want to come onto their land and destroy it. We have to talk about free, prior and informed consent because that shapes what is happening in this country when we talk about manufacturing consent. A lack of respect has been shown in the passage that's been provided through CSIRO. The fact sheets do provide misleading and, in fact, false information to First Nations communities. This is why we need to pass Senator Thorpe's private senator's bill in relation to UNDRIP and it needs to be a priority.</para>
<para>This fact sheet we speak of says that natural gas development from shale can have some impacts on the environment, so fracking in the Beetaloo basin alone is allowed to continue. One field could cause up to 117 million tonnes of CO2 and this alone will blow Labor's target of 43 per cent emissions reduction out of the water, not to mention the massive amounts of water used for fracking. The fact sheet states that fracking uses 99 litres of water for every one litre of chemicals and that each well can use eight community swimming pools of water. That alone is phenomenal.</para>
<para>In its submission to the Senate inquiry on oil and gas exploration and production in the Beetaloo basin, Rallen Australia stated that Sweetpea actually propose to drill 10 horizontal wells into each well pad and they propose to frack each of these horizontal wells 40 times. Each fracking requires an average of 28 megalitres of water, which is equivalent to 10 Olympic swimming pools. Sweetpea intends to use 28 megalitres. Times that for 40 fracks and 10 wells and that equals about 11.2 billion litres of fresh water into each well pad. This is almost a quarter of the entire surface water used in the Northern Territory in one year. That's just for one Sweetpea well pad. There are 27 of these pads planned on this property alone.</para>
<para>The issue with water use and fracking cannot be understated, particularly when we are talking about the Northern Territory and the impact on northern Australia of climate change. This government has a long way to go in taking substantial climate action required and in committing to: no new coal and gas; adequately funding the science industry so our peak national science agency does have to take money from gas companies, which could compromise its independence; and listen to the voices of First Nations people in relation to free, prior and informed consent for activities that occur on their country.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>NOTICES</title>
        <page.no>36</page.no>
        <type>NOTICES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Withdrawal</title>
          <page.no>36</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:33</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WHITE</name>
    <name.id>IWK</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Pursuant to notice given on 28 September 2022 on behalf of the Standing Committee for the Scrutiny of Delegated Legislation, I withdraw business of the Senate notice of motion No. 4 for nine siting days after today proposing the disallowance of the Financial Framework (Supplementary Powers) Amendment (Home Affairs Measures No. 4) Regulations 2021 and business of the Senate notice of motion Nos 2 and 3 for 12 sitting days after today proposing the disallowance of the Financial Framework (Supplementary Powers) Amendment (Prime Minister and Cabinet's Portfolio Measures No. 2) Regulations 2022 and the Telecommunications (Fibre-Ready Facilities in Real Estate Development Projects and Other Matters) Instrument 2022.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BUSINESS</title>
        <page.no>36</page.no>
        <type>BUSINESS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Consideration of Legislation</title>
          <page.no>36</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:34</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CHISHOLM</name>
    <name.id>39801</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the following bills be considered this week at the time for private senators' bills:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) Wednesday, 26 October 2022—Environment Protection and Biodiversity Conservation Amendment (Save the Koala) Bill 2021, second reading speeches only, before the Environment and Communications Legislation Committee reports; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) Thursday, 27 October 2022—Social Services Legislation Amendment (Enhancing Pensioner and Veteran Workforce Participation) Bill 2022.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Leave of Absence</title>
          <page.no>36</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:35</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ASKEW</name>
    <name.id>281558</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That leave of absence be granted to the following senators from 25 to 27 October 2022:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) Senators Antic and Molan, for personal reasons; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) Senator Van, on account of parliamentary business.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Leave of Absence</title>
          <page.no>37</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:36</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ROBERTS</name>
    <name.id>266524</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That leave of absence be granted to Senator Hanson for today, for personal reasons.</para></quote>
<para>She's trapped behind a flood.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Leave of Absence</title>
          <page.no>37</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:36</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator URQUHART</name>
    <name.id>231199</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That leave of absence be granted to Senator Walsh from 25 to 27 October 2022, on account of parliamentary business.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>37</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Affairs Joint Committee</title>
          <page.no>37</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Reporting Date</title>
            <page.no>37</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo></subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Economics References Committee</title>
          <page.no>37</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Reference</title>
            <page.no>37</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:37</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ASKEW</name>
    <name.id>281558</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>At the request of Senator Bragg, I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the following matter be referred to the Economics References Committee for inquiry and report by the last sitting day of 2023:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The fairness and efficiency of savings vehicles in Australia, with particular reference to:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) savings and wealth patterns of Australians across their working life and retirement;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) the relative attractiveness of savings vehicles, including differences in tax treatment and the appropriateness of other incentives;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) the relationship between the Age Pension, compulsory superannuation and voluntary savings to support retirement incomes;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(d) the role of home ownership in building wealth and supporting retirement incomes;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(e) the impact of macroeconomic conditions and associated policy responses on Australian's savings and wealth patterns;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(f) how Australia's policy settings to encourage saving and wealth creation compare internationally; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(g) any other related matters.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:37</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CHISHOLM</name>
    <name.id>39801</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a short statement.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Leave is granted for one minute.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CHISHOLM</name>
    <name.id>39801</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>It is less than two years since the previous government's retirement income review, which canvassed in great detail all the matters in Senator Bragg's motion. Senator Bragg should read that review, commissioned by his own side of politics, instead of constantly looking for ways to reignite his ideological war on superannuation. The Albanese government has already moved on from this. Senator Bragg's real agenda is the destruction of universal super. He has been upfront about that and made that very clear from his first speech. Our focus is on delivering the strongest possible retirement outcomes for working Australians into the future.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that business of the Senate notice of motion No. 2 moved by Senator Askew at the request of Senator Bragg be agreed to.</para>
<para> </para>
<para> </para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [15:42]<br />(The President—Senator Lines)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>30</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Askew, W. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Birmingham, S. J.</name>
                  <name>Bragg, A. J.</name>
                  <name>Brockman, W. E.</name>
                  <name>Cadell, R.</name>
                  <name>Canavan, M. J.</name>
                  <name>Chandler, C.</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                  <name>Davey, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, D. J.</name>
                  <name>Henderson, S. M.</name>
                  <name>Hughes, H. A.</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J.</name>
                  <name>Liddle, K. J.</name>
                  <name>McDonald, S. E.</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J.</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B.</name>
                  <name>McLachlan, A. L.</name>
                  <name>Nampijinpa Price, J. S.</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, M. A.</name>
                  <name>Paterson, J. W.</name>
                  <name>Payne, M. A.</name>
                  <name>Rennick, G.</name>
                  <name>Reynolds, L. K.</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M. I.</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A.</name>
                  <name>Scarr, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Smith, D. A.</name>
                  <name>Tyrrell, T. M.</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>33</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                  <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                  <name>Bilyk, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A.</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                  <name>Cox, D.</name>
                  <name>Dodson, P.</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D. E.</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                  <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                  <name>Grogan, K.</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                  <name>Lines, S.</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M.</name>
                  <name>McKim, N. J.</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Payman, F.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                  <name>Polley, H.</name>
                  <name>Pratt, L. C.</name>
                  <name>Rice, J. E.</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                  <name>Shoebridge, D.</name>
                  <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                  <name>Thorpe, L. A.</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, A. E. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                  <name>Watt, M. P.</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, P. S.</name>
                  <name>White, L.</name>
                  <name>Wong, P.</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names />
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division></subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>38</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Fuel</title>
          <page.no>38</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>38</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:45</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ASKEW</name>
    <name.id>281558</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>At the request of Senator Dean Smith, I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That there be laid on the table by the Minister representing the Treasurer, by no later than midday on Monday, 31 October 2022:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) any briefing notes, file notes and emails provided by the Treasury to the Treasurer and/or to his office since 30 May 2022 in relation to the reintroduction of the full fuel excise from 29 September 2022 and monitoring activities undertaken by the Australian Consumer and Competition Commission (ACCC);</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) any briefing notes, file notes and emails between the Treasury and the ACCC since 30 May 2022 in relation to the reintroduction of the full fuel excise from 29 September 2022 and monitoring activities undertaken by the ACCC; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) any briefing notes, file notes and emails between the Treasurer and the ACCC since 30 May 2022 in relation to the reintroduction of the full fuel excise from 29 September 2022 and monitoring activities undertaken by the ACCC.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:45</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CHISHOLM</name>
    <name.id>39801</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a short statement.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Leave is granted for one minute.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CHISHOLM</name>
    <name.id>39801</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The government have been upfront with Australians that, with the budget heaving with a trillion dollars of debt, we couldn't afford to extend this expensive temporary measure. The Treasurer wrote to the chair of the ACCC, instructing the commission to step up its surveillance of fuel markets ahead of and following the reintroduction of the full excise rate from 29 September 2022.</para>
<para>As the independent regulator enforcing Australia's competition and consumer laws, the ACCC will continue to investigate concerns arising about misrepresentations regarding petrol prices and false and misleading conduct or anticompetitive conduct in fuel markets, and take appropriate action.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that general business notice of motion No. 49, moved by Senator Askew at the request of Senator Dean Smith, be agreed to.</para>
<para> </para>
<para> </para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [15:47]<br />(The President—Senator Lines)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>30</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Askew, W. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Birmingham, S. J.</name>
                  <name>Bragg, A. J.</name>
                  <name>Brockman, W. E.</name>
                  <name>Cadell, R.</name>
                  <name>Canavan, M. J.</name>
                  <name>Chandler, C.</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                  <name>Davey, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, D. J.</name>
                  <name>Henderson, S. M.</name>
                  <name>Hughes, H. A.</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J.</name>
                  <name>Liddle, K. J.</name>
                  <name>McDonald, S. E.</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J.</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B.</name>
                  <name>McLachlan, A. L.</name>
                  <name>Nampijinpa Price, J. S.</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, M. A.</name>
                  <name>Paterson, J. W.</name>
                  <name>Payne, M. A.</name>
                  <name>Rennick, G.</name>
                  <name>Reynolds, L. K.</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M. I.</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A.</name>
                  <name>Scarr, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Smith, D. A.</name>
                  <name>Tyrrell, T. M.</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>33</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                  <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                  <name>Bilyk, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A.</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                  <name>Cox, D.</name>
                  <name>Dodson, P.</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D. E.</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                  <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                  <name>Grogan, K.</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                  <name>Lines, S.</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M.</name>
                  <name>McKim, N. J.</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Payman, F.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                  <name>Polley, H.</name>
                  <name>Pratt, L. C.</name>
                  <name>Rice, J. E.</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                  <name>Shoebridge, D.</name>
                  <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                  <name>Thorpe, L. A.</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, A. E. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                  <name>Watt, M. P.</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, P. S.</name>
                  <name>White, L.</name>
                  <name>Wong, P.</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names />
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division></subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Superannuation</title>
          <page.no>39</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>39</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [15:51]<br />(The President—Senator Lines)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>43</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                  <name>Askew, W. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Birmingham, S. J.</name>
                  <name>Bragg, A. J.</name>
                  <name>Brockman, W. E.</name>
                  <name>Cadell, R.</name>
                  <name>Canavan, M. J.</name>
                  <name>Chandler, C.</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                  <name>Cox, D.</name>
                  <name>Davey, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, D. J.</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                  <name>Henderson, S. M.</name>
                  <name>Hughes, H. A.</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J.</name>
                  <name>Liddle, K. J.</name>
                  <name>McDonald, S. E.</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J.</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B.</name>
                  <name>McKim, N. J.</name>
                  <name>McLachlan, A. L.</name>
                  <name>Nampijinpa Price, J. S.</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, M. A.</name>
                  <name>Paterson, J. W.</name>
                  <name>Payne, M. A.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                  <name>Rennick, G.</name>
                  <name>Reynolds, L. K.</name>
                  <name>Rice, J. E.</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M. I.</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A.</name>
                  <name>Scarr, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Shoebridge, D.</name>
                  <name>Smith, D. A.</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Thorpe, L. A.</name>
                  <name>Tyrrell, T. M.</name>
                  <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, P. S.</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>21</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                  <name>Bilyk, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A.</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                  <name>Dodson, P.</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D. E.</name>
                  <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                  <name>Grogan, K.</name>
                  <name>Lines, S.</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M.</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Payman, F.</name>
                  <name>Polley, H.</name>
                  <name>Pratt, L. C.</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                  <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, A. E. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Watt, M. P.</name>
                  <name>White, L.</name>
                  <name>Wong, P.</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names />
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division></subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Australian Electoral Commission</title>
          <page.no>40</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>40</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:54</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ROBERTS</name>
    <name.id>266524</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That there be laid on the table by the Special Minister of State, by no later than 9.30 am on 27 October 2022, any reports, briefing notes, file notes and emails of 13 December 2021 or later held by the Australian Electoral Commission that relate to compliance with sections 273AA and 273AC of the Commonwealth Electoral Act 1918, which relate to the security of computer systems and ballot paper sampling for Senate elections.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:54</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DUNIAM</name>
    <name.id>263418</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a short statement.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Leave is granted for one minute.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DUNIAM</name>
    <name.id>263418</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>While we appreciate Senator Roberts's position on this matter, integrity in our electoral system is imperative to trust in our democracy. We won't be supporting the motion at this time. We'll pursue this matter with the commissioner through the appropriate committee inquiry and also, of course, at Senate estimates.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that general business notice of motion No. 51 standing in the name of Senator Roberts be agreed to.</para>
<para> </para>
<para> </para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [15:36]<br />(The President—Senator Lines)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>4</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Lambie, J.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M. I. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Tyrrell, T. M.</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>53</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                  <name>Askew, W. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                  <name>Birmingham, S. J.</name>
                  <name>Bragg, A. J.</name>
                  <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Cadell, R.</name>
                  <name>Canavan, M. J.</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A.</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                  <name>Cox, D.</name>
                  <name>Davey, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Dodson, P.</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D. E.</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                  <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                  <name>Grogan, K.</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                  <name>Henderson, S. M.</name>
                  <name>Hughes, H. A.</name>
                  <name>Liddle, K. J.</name>
                  <name>Lines, S.</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M.</name>
                  <name>McDonald, S. E.</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B.</name>
                  <name>McKim, N. J.</name>
                  <name>McLachlan, A. L.</name>
                  <name>Nampijinpa Price, J. S.</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Paterson, J. W.</name>
                  <name>Payman, F.</name>
                  <name>Payne, M. A.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                  <name>Polley, H.</name>
                  <name>Pratt, L. C.</name>
                  <name>Reynolds, L. K.</name>
                  <name>Rice, J. E.</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A.</name>
                  <name>Scarr, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                  <name>Shoebridge, D.</name>
                  <name>Smith, D. A.</name>
                  <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                  <name>Thorpe, L. A.</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, A. E.</name>
                  <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                  <name>Watt, M. P.</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, P. S.</name>
                  <name>White, L.</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names />
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division></subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Department of Infrastructure, Transport, Regional Development and Local Government</title>
          <page.no>41</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>41</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:59</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ASKEW</name>
    <name.id>281558</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>At the request of Senator McKenzie, I seek leave to amend general business notice of motion No. 50, relating to an order for the production of documents.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ASKEW</name>
    <name.id>281558</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I move the motion as amended in the terms circulated in the chamber:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That there be laid on the table by the Minister representing the Minister for Infrastructure, Transport, Regional Development and Local Government, by no later than midday on Friday, 4 November 2022, the following documents:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) all documents in relation to the Hahndorf Township Improvements and Access Upgrade Project between the Federal Minister for Infrastructure, Transport, Regional Development and Local Government and the South Australian Minister for Infrastructure and Transport; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) all documents in relation to the Hahndorf Township Improvements and Access Upgrade Project between the Federal Department of Infrastructure, Transport, Regional Development, Communications and the Arts, and the South Australian Department of Infrastructure and Transport.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BILLS</title>
        <page.no>41</page.no>
        <type>BILLS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Reference to Committee</title>
          <page.no>41</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:00</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CHISHOLM</name>
    <name.id>39801</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) To ensure appropriate consideration of time critical bills by Senate committees, the provisions of all bills introduced into the House of Representatives after 27 October and up to and including 11 November 2022 that contain substantive provisions commencing on or before 1 January 2023 (together with the provisions of any related bill) are referred to committees for inquiry and report by 21 November 2022.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) The committee to which each bill is referred shall be determined in accordance with the allocation of departments and agencies to standing committees agreed to by the Senate.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) A committee to which a bill has been referred may determine, by unanimous decision, that there are no substantive matters that require examination and report that fact to the Senate.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(4) This order does not apply in relation to bills which contain:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) no provisions other than provisions appropriating revenue or moneys (appropriation bills); and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) commencement clauses providing only for the legislation to commence on Royal Assent.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BUSINESS</title>
        <page.no>42</page.no>
        <type>BUSINESS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Rearrangement</title>
          <page.no>42</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:01</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CHISHOLM</name>
    <name.id>39801</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) On Tuesday, 25 October 2022 the hours of meeting be midday to 6.30 pm and 8.30 pm to adjournment and the routine of business from 8.30 pm be:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) Budget statement and documents 2021-22; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) adjournment.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) On Thursday, 27 October 2022:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) the hours of meeting be 9.30 am to adjournment;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) the sitting of the Senate be suspended from 5.30 pm till the ringing of the bells (at approximately 8 pm); and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) on resumption, the routine of business be:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) Budget statement and documents—party leaders and independent senators to make responses to the statement and documents for not more than 30 minutes each, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) adjournment.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>MATTERS OF URGENCY</title>
        <page.no>42</page.no>
        <type>MATTERS OF URGENCY</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>State of Israel</title>
          <page.no>42</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:02</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I inform the Senate that I have received the following letter, dated 25 October 2022, from Senator Birmingham:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Dear President</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Pursuant to standing order 75, I give notice that today I propose to move 'That, in the opinion of the Senate, the following is a matter of urgency:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The need for the Senate to reaffirm the importance of consultation and careful consideration when dealing with complex and sensitive foreign affairs matters, and the need for Prime Minister Albanese to apologise to Israeli Prime Minister Lapid for the hasty and careless manner in which the decision to no longer recognise West Jerusalem as the capital of Israel was made.'</para></quote>
<para>Is the proposal supported?</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">More than the number of senators required by the standing orders having risen in their places—</inline></para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I understand that informal arrangements have been made to allocate specific times for speakers. With the concurrence of the Senate, I shall ask the clerks to set the clock accordingly.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:02</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That, in the opinion of the Senate, the following is a matter of urgency:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The need for the Senate to reaffirm the importance of consultation and careful consideration when dealing with complex and sensitive foreign affairs matters, and the need for Prime Minister Albanese to apologise to Israeli Prime Minister Lapid for the hasty and careless manner in which the decision to no longer recognise West Jerusalem as the capital of Israel was made.</para></quote>
<para>In question time today Senator Wong described the Prime Minister as 'a man of courage and a man of integrity'. Well, courage entails telling people when you're going to do things that they might disagree with, that might be unpopular with them and that might have consequences for you in terms of people choosing, in an electoral contest, to vote against you. That would be courage. Integrity, of course, would be being honest, up-front and direct with them.</para>
<para>In the context of the government's decision to reverse the recognition of West Jerusalem as the capital of Israel, Mr Albanese and the Labor Party showed neither courage nor integrity. In fact, it was quite the opposite: Labor's completely unnecessary decision that Australia will cease to recognise West Jerusalem as the Israeli capital has been a shambolic process. It has been contemptuous of so many stakeholders and was executed with shocking timing. Firstly, though, the Labor Party and Mr Albanese were deceptive and misleading in this decision-making. Senior Labor members of parliament went to the last election assuring concerned stakeholders, including members of the Australian Jewish community, that, on the question of Israel, it didn't matter which way they voted at the last election. The now Attorney-General, Mr Dreyfus, wrote an article in <inline font-style="italic">Australian Jewish News</inline> on 6 March this year attacking Scott Morrison for the suggestion that there was any difference in policies between the two sides; they just said it didn't matter. Mr Dreyfus claimed that, across domestic politics, Australia, spoke 'with one voice'. He was echoed by Josh Burns, who did likewise, saying Australia's Jewish community should feel proud that its interests would be safeguarded irrespective of who forms government.</para>
<para>Mr Dreyfus, Mr Burns and other Labor members and senators who provided those reassurances to Australia's Jewish community should feel shame, not pride, for misleading the community ahead of the last election. Contrary to their reassurances, the Albanese government has taken not one step but, indeed, multiple steps so far of difference, of change of policy. They did so, in fact, within weeks of their election, when they refused to join 22 other nations, including Canada, Germany, the Netherlands, the UK and the United States, in voting in favour of a key motion put to the UN Human Rights Council. It was a motion simply expressing deep concern at the disproportionate scrutiny placed on Israel from an open-ended commission of inquiry into alleged human rights abuses. This, I note, is the same council that recently declined to even debate a one-off report on serious abuses in the Xinjiang region of China.</para>
<para>The government made the decision to step away from working with like-mindeds and standing for the principle around fairness, equity and scrutiny. They then made this decision to overturn the recognition of West Jerusalem but did so in the most cack-handed and shambolic of ways possible. They misled voters and the community, saying it wasn't going to happen. Then, when it leaked out onto a departmental website, the minister's office rushed to reassure the community, the media and the Israeli government that it wasn't happening, that it hadn't happened. Then, within hours, the minister came out and announced that it was happening, that they were doing it, that they were reversing the decision, and they happened to do so on a Jewish holy day—really? Who on earth was providing the advice? Where was the due diligence? How chaotic was the process behind the scenes to be so inconsiderate that the Prime Minister and the foreign minister themselves had to acknowledge the failure of the timing there?</para>
<para>It was also two weeks before the Israeli election. Even if the government hadn't checked the Jewish calendar for holy days, surely they were aware an Israeli election was coming and that this would feed into domestic politics there? Did they speak with the Israeli government? No, not to consult in advance of providing this announcement and decision. The Israeli Prime Minister condemned the government. Mr Albanese should pick up the phone to apologise. This is a mess of the government's making. It's been misleading the community and an apology is clearly owed to those who have been affected by this decision. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:07</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator AYRES</name>
    <name.id>16913</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>This motion from Senator Birmingham seeks to:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… reaffirm the importance of consultation and careful consideration when dealing with complex and sensitive foreign affairs matters …</para></quote>
<para>It's like Attila the Hun complaining about human rights abuses!</para>
<para>My question is: where was Senator Birmingham's motion when the Morrison government announced an inquiry into the origins of COVID-19 in a Sunday morning television interview without having done the diplomatic legwork to lock in support? Where was Senator Birmingham's motion when Mr Dutton, with Mr Abbott and Mr Morrison, stood around on live television joking about water lapping around the feet of Pacific islanders? Where was Senator Birmingham's motion last year, when the former Prime Minister blindsided our friends the French with his AUKUS announcement? And, indeed, where was Senator Birmingham's motion in 2018, when the Morrison government broke with the vast majority of the international community to recognise West Jerusalem as the capital of Israel?</para>
<para>The decision by the Morrison government to recognise West Jerusalem as the capital of Israel broke with a position that had been held by every Australian government since 1948. If ever there was a moment for careful consideration, it was then. There was nothing hasty, careless or surprising about Senator Wong's announcement last week.</para>
<para>When the Morrison government announced its position in 2018, Senator Wong made our position very clear. The position hasn't changed. The Australian government remains committed to a two-state solution in which Israel and a future Palestinian state can coexist in peace and security within internationally recognised borders. This is a position that hasn't changed since the Gorton government established that position following the Six-Day War in 1967. The position was maintained by Prime Ministers Fraser, Hawke, Howard, Gillard and Turnbull. There's been only one Prime Minister who's departed from that bipartisan and correct foreign policy approach, and that's Mr Morrison. And why did he do that? For base political reasons. It was a cynical political ploy, a desperate and failed attempt. It's one thing to go through a sordid announcement about a position that is designed only for domestic political purposes and then win; it's an entirely separate thing to do that and then have it blow up in your face and lose, which is what Mr Morrison did—abject failure. Even cynics would be embarrassed by Mr Morrison's cynicism on this question.</para>
<para>This is a challenging foreign policy question. It should be dealt with by adults. There are competing interests and rights, issues of social justice and a series of historical wrongs, and there's violence. The prospect of peace and justice don't seem to be getting stronger; they seem to be getting more remote every year. It requires consistency, responsibility, careful evaluation of the merits and acting carefully in the national interest and the interest of peace with our allies and partners in a way that is consistent with our national interest. What has the coalition approach been, Mr Morrison's approach? It has been to seek domestic political advantage rather than to do the right thing. It's been a political tactic to play with the hopes and aspirations of the State of Israel, of the Palestinians and their various supporters and of people who are interested in the issue in Australia. Well, the adults are in charge again now. The traditional bipartisan position has been reasserted.</para>
<para>Senator Wong has expressed her regret. She said the timing of the announcement on Simhath Torah was deeply regrettable. That'll be another feature of this government: when something goes wrong, we will take responsibility, not run away from it and pretend it was our plan all along. We'll just take responsibility. That's what Senator Wong has done. That's what we will continue to do. The adults are back in charge, and we will not use this issue for base political advantage. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:13</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator STEELE-JOHN</name>
    <name.id>250156</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Labor's decision to no longer recognise West Jerusalem as the capital of Israel is a welcome move. After all, the Morrison government's original announcement was nothing more than a craven attempt to employ an action straight out of the Donald Trump playbook. The Australian Greens' foreign policy is grounded in lived experience and in the needs of the community. Peace and non-violent approaches to the resolution of conflict will always drive our response. We in the Greens recognise the ongoing injustices that have been done and are being done to the Palestinian people, and we express our deep solidarity. We acknowledge and note that Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch and other groups have concluded that the Israeli government is committing the act and is guilty of the crime of apartheid.</para>
<para>Following the decision to not recognise West Jerusalem as the capital, we are calling on the federal government to do the following: to recognise the self-determination and statehood of Palestinians and push to ensure an end to the Israeli occupation; to halt military cooperation and military trade with the State of Israel; and to work towards rectifying the injustices in a way that will allow both Palestinians and Israelis to live in peace. We must work to find a way to support the people of Israel and the people of Palestine to live their lives in peace.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:14</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FAWCETT</name>
    <name.id>DYU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I also rise to speak on this urgency motion regarding Israel. It's important to note that, whilst two sides here can trade barbs over the domestic politics of it, there are substantial issues that go to our foreign affairs. Having worked in the foreign affairs, defence and trade area of this parliament for most of my time here, I'm acutely aware of how our statements and actions can influence the attitudes and the trust of parties that we seek to treat as friends and allies and can also give succour and encouragement to those with whom we fundamentally disagree in terms of their world view.</para>
<para>Those opposite have made comments that this is an exercise in crass domestic politics, but I would just like to quote some of the comments from Israel's Prime Minister, Prime Minister Lapid, who said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">In light of the way in which this decision was made in Australia, as a hasty response to an incorrect report in the media, we can only hope that the Australian government manages other matters more seriously and professionally.</para></quote>
<para>It has been some time since Australia's ambassador in Israel has been summoned for a dressing-down in that country. The Israeli foreign minister registered Israel's 'deep disappointment in the face of the Australian government's decision resulting from a short-sighted political consideration'. I will finish on this point by noting that both the Prime Minister and the foreign minister have conceded that the announcement was mishandled.</para>
<para>I would now like to go more to the substance of the issue, because I think it's really important that we see what is happening in the world, particularly in the Middle East, and that we seize the opportunities that are before us. If we go right back to the creation of Israel, at the end of the war that was launched upon the fledgling state, an armistice was agreed between Jordan and Israel that recognised that the city of Jerusalem was in two parts: the west, controlled by Israel, and the east, controlled by Jordan. When again the Arab states attacked Israel in 1967, at the end of that war, Israel had taken over East Jerusalem as well as the West Bank and the Golan Heights. So there was a period, and that has continued, of international disquiet over the status of those lands. But West Jerusalem itself was never in contention, even back then, and even for the people who now say that we should be going back to the pre-1967 boundaries, West Jerusalem is very much the territory that Israel has always controlled and will continue to control.</para>
<para>Nations have for some time repeated the line, which we hear frequently and have heard today, that until there is a final settlement peace cannot exist. But the reality on the ground in the Middle East is different and it's changing. We see between Morocco, the UAE and Bahrain an ongoing acceptance of and relationship with Israel from Morocco and a new recognition of sovereignty and of the establishment of diplomatic norms between an increasing number of Arab nations either overtly, such as in the Abraham Accords, or through implied or tacit cooperation from states that are now allowing overflight to Israeli airline El Al, which was never allowed in the past.</para>
<para>So, despite comments made by some nations and some people—Senator Wong in fact made the comment—that lasting peace is not possible until there is a final settlement, we are seeing that nations in the Middle East are increasingly saying, 'We want to look forward to how we can collaborate with Israel for the opportunities for all our people,' and lasting agreements and recognition of Israel's sovereignty and right to exist are being established, and cooperative relationships in the areas of security, commerce, sport and other things are being established. To provide comfort to the recalcitrants within the Palestinian movement who said, both in 2000 under President Clinton and in 2008 when Prime Minister Olmert and Mr Abbas met and the Palestinians just rejected out of hand the offers of peace and haven't in a meaningful way returned to negotiations, anything that supports that view of nonengagement with Israel will only work to extend the conflict. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:20</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'NEILL</name>
    <name.id>140651</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise today on the matter of urgency put forward by the Leader of the Opposition in the Senate. I first want to acknowledge those frustrated and hurt by the suddenness of the change in the statement on the website. I particularly want to say as Chair of the Parliamentary Friends of Israel that I know how deeply the attachment to Jerusalem is felt by Jewish people, who, in the immortal words of Chaim Weizmann, lived in Jerusalem while London was still a marsh.</para>
<para>As Senator Wong has said, it's more than a political issue; it's definitional. It's about history, faith and identity. Jerusalem was the site of the two temples, the seat of King David and Solomon, and has been the scene of the highest triumphs and some of the darkest moments of Jewish history for the last three millennia. Thus, it was a lasting shame that those opposite, when last in government, chose to politicise the issue in the first place and, guided only by the impending Wentworth by-election, broke decades of consensus regarding Australian recognition of West Jerusalem.</para>
<para>Those opposite were only too happy to vote against recognising Jerusalem as the capital of Israel in this very chamber only four months prior to making that change. Senator Fraser Anning's motion—his proposal—in the Senate in June 2018 received this response from Senator James McGrath—this is what the government thought, four months before they went out and unilaterally changed the position:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The government considers Jerusalem to be a final status issue for negotiations between Israel and the Palestinians. Australia will continue to maintain its embassy in Tel Aviv. The Prime Minister and the Minister for Foreign Affairs have restated Australian policy on several recent occasions.</para></quote>
<para>Senator McGrath, speaking for the then government, led at that time by Mr Morrison, went on to say:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The government has no plans to relocate the embassy to Jerusalem. Australia considers that, in view of the highly sensitive status of Jerusalem and its consideration as a final status issue, it is not conducive to the peace process to move the embassy there.</para></quote>
<para>And he was in good company. We have comments on the record about efforts to build long-term peace that go back as far as: Sir Paul Hasluck in 1967; Prime Minister Keating; Prime Minister Howard, who said, 'The status of Jerusalem is something that will be resolved by the parties in discussion'; Labor Prime Minister Julia Gillard; and Liberal foreign minister Julie Bishop, who said, 'Matters relating to Jerusalem are subject to final status negotiations between Israel and the Palestinian Authority.' For decades that was the consensus.</para>
<para>Sensitive foreign policy matters like the recognition of Jerusalem should never be politicised in a cynical manner to win a by-election. I note as well that the decision to move the embassy was scrapped shortly after the Liberal candidate lost the by-election. The decision was only ever about politics for many of those opposite. I won't include everyone because there are conviction politicians on that side of the chamber, but I note Senator Birmingham continues to refuse to announce his party's current position and whether he would seek to reverse the decision.</para>
<para>I want to acknowledge the deep frustration and consternation from the Jewish community, particularly in the timing. This occurred on one of the Jewish community's holiest days, Simchat Torah, when many observant members of the community were, in fact, unable to receive news or check their phones. This decision must have come as a tremendous shock to them when they did turn on their phones.</para>
<para>There's no running from the reality that we face. Minister Wong has reiterated on many occasions and again in question time today that the website was updated ahead of the processes of government. But, unlike those before us, our government took responsibility for the decision and acknowledged that these events are, in fact, deeply regrettable. Last Monday's announcement returned Australia to the international mainstream on the Israel-Palestine conflict. I look forward to the day when that conflict is resolved, and I hope both peoples are able to reach a just and fair resolution as soon as possible.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:25</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ROBERTS</name>
    <name.id>266524</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>One Nation considers it the responsibility of the Israeli government to decide the location of Israel's capital city, not the Australian government. Israel selected Jerusalem. One Nation approved the former government's recognition of this fact and the decision to relocate Australia's embassy there. The Albanese government's decision is like Germany declaring Brisbane or Perth the capital of Australia instead of Canberra. It's confusing and clumsy. We're critical of the government's decision to switch Australia's embassy in Israel back to Tel Aviv. Is this an entirely political decision to pacify Labor's radical left and gain Muslim votes in the coming Victorian election? Proscribed terrorist organisations like Hamas have already praised the government for this decision to change recognition of the Israeli capital. That the Israeli government was not even informed ahead of time is further indictment of the Albanese government's decision. One Nation considers the decision to be the Prime Minister's clumsy mistake and calls on him to reverse it and again recognise Jerusalem as Israel's capital.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:26</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARUQI</name>
    <name.id>250362</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The government's decision to no longer recognise West Jerusalem as the capital of Israel is a welcome move, but it is only a start. It is a simple reversal of an atrocious Liberal decision to align our country with the far-right Trump administration's position. This was indefensible in 2018 and it remains indefensible. We are back to the status quo. We need now to move forward with an approach that recognises the brutality and horror of the occupation and makes Australia an effective and impassioned supporter of Palestinian rights.</para>
<para>Australia must act to ensure an end to the Israeli occupation and violence. Australia must uphold international law and Palestinian human rights. Australia must acknowledge and call out what has been investigated and now reported by Amnesty International, amongst others—that Israel imposes a system that amounts to apartheid.</para>
<para>Outrage over the importance of consultation and careful consideration with respect to this is quite misleading. The Labor Party clearly opposed the recognition of West Jerusalem as Israel's capital publicly when it was announced in 2018. So, now they are in government, this change in Australia's position should not have been a huge revelation to anyone. Backlash to the decision really has the purpose of sending a signal to the government that any change when it comes to Australia pursuing a policy that is more accommodating of Palestinian rights will not be tolerated. The new Labor government should push back and pursue foreign policy based on the principles of human rights and justice and not be at the whim of those who have come to expect nothing but appeasement and pandering to the brutal and oppressive Israeli regime.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:28</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRAGG</name>
    <name.id>256063</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>There is no question that these are very sensitive issues, and they are the sorts of issues where Australia's multicultural tenor makes it very complicated. That's because we have very large parts of our community that feel strongly about these matters. These are people who are Australian and people who have an interest in our domestic affairs, but they see this as almost an extension of a domestic issue. I think it is important to place on record that it is a complex and sophisticated issue that requires real care and diligence if any government wants to wade into it in any form.</para>
<para>The first fact to put on the table is that since its inception Israel has been a great friend of Australia. Australia has stood with the State of Israel since its inception after the Second World War. Certainly this is not how we would treat a friend. The shambolic approach taken here really has, I think, let our friend down greatly.</para>
<para>The second fact here is that it isn't our role to choose the capital of another nation. I can't think of any other example where Australia would seek to impose its selection of a capital city on another country or jurisdiction, so I think it important that we stay in our lane on this issue. Jerusalem is the capital of Israel. It may also be the future capital of a Palestinian state. But the historical and contemporary reality is that Jerusalem is the capital of Israel. For anyone who has visited the State of Israel, that would be an obvious fact to them.</para>
<para>Before the election, the Labor Party was quite clear in 'wanting to speak with one voice' on these matters, as said to the <inline font-style="italic">Australian Jewish </inline><inline font-style="italic">N</inline><inline font-style="italic">ews</inline>. It's been alleged that at various fundraising dinners the now Prime Minister went around and gave assurances that that would be the case, that there would be no change on these matters, certainly no change without consultation. We're all very aware that there was no consultation here, because this was a complete shambles.</para>
<para>There was some sort of a change on the website by a DFAT official, which was authorised or unauthorised—we don't know. Maybe we'll find out in coming weeks and months. That led to some media reporting, which was denied, and then assurances were given to various community members and groups. Then, apparently, there was a meeting of the cabinet, where it was formalised that we would be reversing our position—reversing our position of allowing another state, that is a friend of ours, to select their own capital city. That is their capital city. We're now saying, 'No, we don't believe that your selection of your capital city is valid.' That is the position we are now in.</para>
<para>Mr Josh Burns, the member for Macnamara, has said that it's insensitive, and I note that the comments made by the foreign minister are a concession that the process was a shambles. It is very disappointing that the government has decided to treat a great friend of Australia in this way. It is unusual to hear a Prime Minister of any country, let alone a friendly nation, speak of such great disappointment in the actions Australia has taken. This has been a very sorry chapter in our foreign relations.</para>
<para>I noted at the start of these remarks that it is a complicated and delicate matter, but we have to be realistic that this is the capital of Israel. They have selected that city, and we should respect that choice as we maintain our commitment to a future Palestinian state. I don't think that being realistic about our foreign relations in any way diminishes the future opportunity of there being a Palestinian state.</para>
<para>I conclude by agreeing with Senator Birmingham's statement that the Albanese government now needs to make amends for this completely embarrassing shambles and needs to fix the offence to Israel. They will always be a great friend of Australia.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>241710</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the motion moved by Senator Birmingham be agreed to.</para>
<para> </para>
<para> </para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
          <division.header>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [16:37]<br />(The Acting Deputy President—Senator Dean Smith)</p>
            </body>
          </division.header>
          <division.data>
            <ayes>
              <num.votes>29</num.votes>
              <title>AYES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Askew, W.</name>
                <name>Babet, R.</name>
                <name>Bragg, A. J.</name>
                <name>Brockman, W. E.</name>
                <name>Cadell, R.</name>
                <name>Canavan, M. J.</name>
                <name>Cash, M. C.</name>
                <name>Chandler, C.</name>
                <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                <name>Davey, P. M.</name>
                <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                <name>Fawcett, D. J.</name>
                <name>Henderson, S. M.</name>
                <name>Hughes, H. A.</name>
                <name>Lambie, J.</name>
                <name>Liddle, K. J.</name>
                <name>McDonald, S. E.</name>
                <name>McGrath, J.</name>
                <name>McKenzie, B.</name>
                <name>McLachlan, A. L.</name>
                <name>Nampijinpa Price, J. S.</name>
                <name>O'Sullivan, M. A. (Teller)</name>
                <name>Payne, M. A.</name>
                <name>Rennick, G.</name>
                <name>Reynolds, L. K.</name>
                <name>Roberts, M. I.</name>
                <name>Scarr, P. M.</name>
                <name>Smith, D. A.</name>
                <name>Tyrrell, T. M.</name>
              </names>
            </ayes>
            <noes>
              <num.votes>33</num.votes>
              <title>NOES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                <name>Bilyk, C. L.</name>
                <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                <name>Chisholm, A.</name>
                <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                <name>Cox, D.</name>
                <name>Dodson, P.</name>
                <name>Farrell, D. E.</name>
                <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                <name>Lines, S.</name>
                <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                <name>McCarthy, M.</name>
                <name>McKim, N. J.</name>
                <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                <name>Payman, F.</name>
                <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                <name>Polley, H.</name>
                <name>Pratt, L. C. (Teller)</name>
                <name>Rice, J. E.</name>
                <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                <name>Shoebridge, D.</name>
                <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                <name>Thorpe, L. A.</name>
                <name>Urquhart, A. E.</name>
                <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                <name>Watt, M. P.</name>
                <name>Whish-Wilson, P. S.</name>
                <name>White, L.</name>
              </names>
            </noes>
            <pairs>
              <num.votes>0</num.votes>
              <title>PAIRS</title>
              <names />
            </pairs>
          </division.data>
          <division.result>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
            </body>
          </division.result>
        </division></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Treaty on the Prohibition of Nuclear Weapons</title>
          <page.no>47</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:46</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>241710</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Senate will now consider the following proposal from Senator McKim, which is also shown at item 12 on today's Order of Business:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Dear President</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Pursuant to standing order 75, I give notice that today the Australian Greens propose to move "That, in the opinion of the Senate, the following is a matter of urgency:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">That the government should instruct Australia's representatives at the United Nations to vote in the affirmative during the upcoming UN First Committee vote on the Treaty on the Total Prohibition of Nuclear Weapons and signal the government's intent to sign and ratify the treaty."</para></quote>
<para>Is the proposal supported?</para>
<para> <inline font-style="italic">More than the number of senators required by the standing orders having </inline> <inline font-style="italic">risen in their places—</inline></para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>241710</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I understand that informal arrangements have been made to allocate specific times to each of the speakers for this debate. With the concurrence of the Senate, I shall ask the clerks to set the clock accordingly.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:47</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator STEELE-JOHN</name>
    <name.id>250156</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>On behalf of Senator McKim, I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That, in the opinion of the Senate, the following is a matter of urgency:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">That the government should instruct Australia's representatives at the United Nations to vote in the affirmative during the upcoming UN First Committee vote on the Treaty on the Total Prohibition of Nuclear Weapons and signal the government's intent to sign and ratify the treaty.</para></quote>
<para>I want to begin with a simple statement that makes me extraordinarily proud: the Australian Greens, from the moment of our inception as a political party, from the moment communities came together to combine their efforts in a common purpose called the Australian Greens, have wholeheartedly and without reservation supported the goal of ridding the world of nuclear weapons and prohibiting forever their use. As a Western Australian senator, I'm particularly proud to say, in speaking today, that I come from a political party, the Greens WA, which has the honour of being that party under whose name Josephine Vallentine, the very first senator to be elected anywhere in the world on an explicit platform of nuclear disarmament, served in the Senate.</para>
<para>For these 30-plus years, the Greens have worked with the antinuclear proliferation movement in Australia and across the world to advance the cause of forever eliminating the potential of a nuclear exchange ending all life on this planet. The Treaty on the Prohibition of Nuclear Weapons is the best international tool we currently have for achieving that urgently needed goal. It is thanks to the tireless work of campaigners since its creation that many MPs in this parliament and many MPs across the world have proudly put their names to supporting that treaty's ratification and to their nations' signing up to that treaty. I am extraordinarily proud to say that every single one of my 16 Greens colleagues are open about their support and championing of the treaty.</para>
<para>This campaign work was so effective that the Prime Minister, then opposition leader, Anthony Albanese, championed the ALP's election platform, including an explicit commitment to Australia signing and ratifying the treaty. He said in 2018:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Nuclear weapons are the most destructive, inhumane and indiscriminate weapons ever created.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Today we have an opportunity to take a step towards their elimination.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">…   …   …</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">… Labor in government will sign and ratify the UN Treaty on the Prohibition of Nuclear Weapons.</para></quote>
<para>That position has been re-endorsed at each and every subsequent Labor conference.</para>
<para>On 28 October, as part of the world Disarmament Week, the Australian government will have the opportunity to instruct our representatives at the United Nations to vote yes in a General Assembly vote on the question of support for the treaty. This motion before the chamber urges the government to take that position, consistent with its party policy, consistent with the views of its leader and consistent with the views of the foreign minister, which she expressed in New York recently. In speaking of the situation in Ukraine, the foreign minister said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Mr Putin's weak and desperate nuclear threats underline the danger that nuclear weapons pose to us all, and the urgent need for progress on nuclear disarmament.</para></quote>
<para>Well, the opportunity is about to come before this government for them to vote yes at the General Assembly on 28 October.</para>
<para>Since coming into office, they have taken only one step towards the ratification of the treaty: the sending of an observer to the first meeting of the parties in Vienna. That was a useful step, but more action is needed in light of the urgency of the issue. Australia must vote yes at the United Nations, and this government must—in line with its policy and platform—sign and ratify the Treaty on the Prohibition of Nuclear Weapons.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:52</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CICCONE</name>
    <name.id>281503</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I think we can all appreciate the ambition for a world that is free of nuclear weapons. All of us in this place have been unanimous in our condemnation of Russia's brutal, illegal and unprovoked invasion of Ukraine. And it's incredibly concerning that Russia has threatened to use nuclear weapons against Ukraine. Indeed, the escalation of Russia's invasion is what has, in many ways, restarted the conversation about nuclear weapons and efforts to disarm. Recently, Russia deliberately obstructed progress at the 10th review conference of the non-proliferation of nuclear weapons treaty.</para>
<para>The Assistant Minister for Trade, Senator Tim Ayres, led Australia's delegation to the conference in New York and affirmed Australia's strong commitment to the treaty. After four weeks of negotiations, all parties were ready to agree to a meaningful and balanced outcome across the treaty's three pillars, which are disarmament and the non-proliferation of and peaceful uses of nuclear energy. Russia's obstruction made an already difficult job unachievable, and hindered progress towards a safer world free of nuclear weapons.</para>
<para>But of course, concern about the proliferation of nuclear weapons is not isolated to Russia. Just a few days ago, the Prime Minister, Anthony Albanese, and his Japanese counterpart condemned North Korea's ongoing development of nuclear weapons. Nuclear weapons in the hands of states which show no regard for international rules based order is of particular concern to Australia and our allies. This brings me to why the government cannot support the motion that is before the Senate today but share's the ambition of the Treaty on the Prohibition of Nuclear Weapons. But we must acknowledge the practical barriers that do stand in the way.</para>
<para>In order to sign the treaty, we must ensure an effective verification and enforcement architecture. Without this, any treaty isn't worth the paper that it is written on. Perhaps most importantly, for any nuclear prohibition treaty to be successful and practical it must achieve universal support. Surely everyone in this place can acknowledge that, if Australia's allies prohibited their own nuclear weapons while other states refused, this would be disastrous for our own national security and, indeed, international peace. To make any practical progress on disarmament, all nuclear-weapon states must be involved. Given Russia's deliberate obstruction of efforts towards prohibition, and North Korea's disregard for the security of the international community as it developed its own nuclear weapons, it is currently impossible to meet the criteria that would make any treaty on the prohibition of nuclear weapons practical.</para>
<para>Of course, this highlights the difficulty at the heart of this debate. Nuclear weapons pose a threat to all of us, and the world would be a safer place if they were all disarmed. But this threat is precisely why any treaty that does not include all nuclear-weapon states cannot be supported. Supporting this treaty would greatly empower those states which maintain their nuclear capabilities and present a grave threat to the international order. I understand the motivation for this motion, I admire its ambition and I hope it is one day realised. But the practicalities of achieving a nuclear weapon-free world mean we cannot support this motion.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:57</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PAYNE</name>
    <name.id>M56</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I note for the chamber that this motion proposes a significant change to Australia's longstanding position in relation to the Treaty on the Prohibition of Nuclear Weapons. The coalition notes that Australia has consistently made clear that the treaty, as it stands, does not offer a practical path to effective disarmament, nor does it enhance security. Not a single nuclear-possessing state has participated in its negotiations, nor have they signed or ratified the treaty. The treaty will not rid the world of a single nuclear weapon.</para>
<para>Australia has always considered the NPT, the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons—which includes nuclear-possessing states as signatories—as the foundation of global nonproliferation and disarmament efforts. What the government would need to explain if it went down the path of changing Australia's consistent position in relation to this treaty is how it will address the limitations of the TPNW, including lack of effective verification and enforcement processes. The government also needs to explain what any change to Australia's position would mean for our alliance with the United States as a nuclear-possessing state, for example.</para>
<para>The TPNW is notably different from other treaties which Australia has supported. For example, in relation to the NPT, the International Committee of the Red Cross notes that it can be seen as an agreement between non-nuclear-armed states, which surrender the option to develop nuclear weapons, and nuclear-armed states, which are obliged to work towards disarming and eliminating nuclear weapons. Secondly, the comprehensive test ban treaty bans all nuclear test explosions as a practical step towards nuclear disarmament and an effective nonproliferation measure which limits the technical development of nuclear weapons.</para>
<para>Australian was not a participant in the TPNW negotiations. Indeed, in October 2017 the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade gave evidence to the Senate Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Legislation Committee at supplementary estimates which said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… Australia is committed to a world without nuclear weapons through implementation of the NPT, including article 6, in a step-by-step and verifiable manner. But we will not sign or ratify the ban or the prohibition treaty because we don't regard it as an effective measure to eliminate nuclear weapons.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">…   …   …</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We also take the view that the treaty is fundamentally flawed, and risks undermining the NPT. That may reflect the fact that it was negotiated very, very rapidly; it does not involve any of the states that possess nuclear weapons; no such states are likely to join; and it will not eliminate a single nuclear weapon. It does not include viable mechanisms for the elimination or reduction of nuclear weapons, or for maintaining a world free of nuclear weapons.</para></quote>
<para>I note Senator Ciccone's words in here this afternoon. In January last year the then Labor opposition welcomed the ratification of the treaty, but I do note the conditionality of that statement, which said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">We have committed to signing and ratifying the treaty after taking account the need to ensure an effective verification and enforcement architecture, interaction of the Treaty with the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, and achieving universal support.</para></quote>
<para>So, given that the government apparently shares the concerns of the opposition regarding the absence of effective verification and enforcement mechanisms, we would call upon the government to justify any change to the longstanding position Australia has taken on this treaty. Given the complete absence of nuclear-possessing states as parties to the treaty, the opposition would call on the government to explain how it would meet that benchmark of universal support before Australia agreed to sign and ratify the agreement. Given those stated concerns of the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade that the treaty risks undermining the very important NPT, we'd also call upon the government to guarantee that any decision to sign and ratify the TPNW would not have a negative impact on either Australia's or the global commitment to both the NPT and the comprehensive test ban treaty.</para>
<para>We have a strong record on nuclear nonproliferation. We've always welcomed further progress towards the universalisation of the NPT. I'd also note what a great pleasure it was to see eminent Australian Dr Robert Floyd elected to lead the Comprehensive Nuclear-Test-Ban Treaty Organization as its executive secretary in 2021. To note from the media release of the time, as the first executive secretary elected from the Indo-Pacific, this appointment demonstrated Australia's active commitment to nuclear nonproliferation and disarmament and our practical contribution to multilateral cooperation. With its 185 state signatories, the CTBT aims to end nuclear weapons testing worldwide, and I know that Dr Floyd, whom I regard very highly, will play a critical role in supporting the treaty's objectives. There are outstanding questions for any government who would examine the TPNW for ratification, and I've laid those on the table today on behalf of the coalition.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:02</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DAVID POCOCK</name>
    <name.id>256136</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>It's an incredibly timely point in history to reflect on the importance of nuclear disarmament, as we look to Putin's war on Ukraine and his threats of nuclear action. As recently as last month, Putin confronted the world with the grim prospect of nuclear war. His threat was intended for the West and was as plain as it was ugly: move out of his way or risk nuclear retaliation. This is the power of weapons of mass destruction. They allow the world to be held to ransom while innocent people are murdered. In the wrong hands, or in the right hands—in anyone's hands—they're an unwanted blight upon our planet and our shared life together, serving no other purpose than to inspire fear and destroy life.</para>
<para>We have only to look at the tragedies of Hiroshima and Nagasaki to understand the consequences of their use—an estimated 80,000 innocent people murdered in mere seconds, with many more to die from radiation in the decades thereafter. This event alone should have led to disarmament. Yet, sadly, there are still almost 13,000 warheads in existence, with some 90 per cent of them concentrated in the hands of just two countries. Nuclear disarmament is needed now more than ever, which is why I wrote to Minister Wong a month ago urging her to sign and ratify the UN Treaty on the Prohibition of Nuclear Weapons. This weekend Australia has the opportunity to vote in support of the treaty at the UN General Assembly, consistent with commitments made in Labor's national platform.</para>
<para>The importance of this treaty cannot be underestimated. It is a comprehensive set of prohibitions on participating in any form of nuclear weaponisation. And it's not every day that Australians win Nobel Peace Prizes, but the International Campaign to Abolish Nuclear Weapons, or ICAN, won the 2017 Nobel Peace Prize for their work to draw attention to the catastrophic humanitarian consequences of any use of nuclear weapons and their groundbreaking efforts to achieve a treaty based prohibition of such weapons.</para>
<para>This award was largely unheralded, and it's no surprise, given the excuses we're hearing today from the major parties about why this can't be done. Developing, testing, producing, acquiring, possessing, stockpiling, using or even threatening to use nuclear weapons would become prohibited—and it should become prohibited. There is no downside to signing and ratifying this agreement. Doing so is in our nation's interest. It is in everyone's interest. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:05</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GREEN</name>
    <name.id>259819</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I'm very pleased to be speaking on this motion today. I want to begin by joining with other senators in acknowledging the work of ICAN and the advocates who have worked tirelessly for many years and stomped the halls of this parliament many times. I've had the chance to meet with them to talk about this important work and acknowledge the work that they did, which did receive a Nobel prize. I know that it is work that the Labor Party sees as incredibly important, and that's why we are participating in this conversation and taking steps towards moving to nuclear disarmament. We know that it is a most important struggle that we are dealing with today.</para>
<para>There's no question about the consequences and effects of the use of nuclear weapons not only on peace and stability. We have seen the devastating impacts in Japan. Just this weekend, Prime Minister Albanese and his Japanese counterpart condemned Russia's threat to use nuclear weapons against Ukraine as a serious and unacceptable menace to the peace and security of the international community. They stressed that any use of nuclear weapons would be met with unequivocal international opprobrium and resolute responses. They also condemned North Korea's ongoing development of nuclear weapons, reiterating their commitment to achieving the complete, verifiable and irreversible dismantlement of all nuclear weapons, other weapons of mass destruction and ballistic missiles of all ranges in North Korea.</para>
<para>We understand very acutely that the existence of these weapons makes our region less safe. In the past months, Russia's weak and desperate nuclear threats over its unprovoked, immoral war on Ukraine have underlined the danger of nuclear weapons that's still posed to all of us around the world. A lot of work has been done by this government, particularly by Minister Wong—and I commend her for her work in this area—and also by Assistant Minister for Trade, Senator Tim Ayres. Senator Ayres led an Australian delegation to work with other NPT states' parties in his capacity as a minister in this portfolio. He was able to deliver Australia's national statement, which affirmed our strong commitment to the NPT and underscored the need to preserve and strengthen the tangible benefits the treaty delivers for all of us.</para>
<para>Our government is deeply committed to strengthening the non-proliferation regime, which is why we were deeply disappointed that the Tenth Review Conference of the Parties to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons did not reach a consensus outcome despite the urgency of the international security environment. After four weeks of negotiations in New York, all state parties were ready to agree to a meaningful and balanced outcome across the treaty's three pillars: disarmament, nonproliferation and peaceful uses of nuclear energy. Russia deliberately obstructed progress by refusing to compromise on the proposed text. Its actions directly challenge the core tenets of the non-proliferation treaty. Russia's obstruction made an already difficult job unachievable and hindered progress towards a safer world free of nuclear weapons.</para>
<para>Despite Russia's opposition and the challenges we face, Australia is committed to fulfilling all of our obligations as a non-nuclear weapons state under the NPT, including with the International Atomic Energy Agency. The government shares the ambition of the Treaty on the Prohibition of Nuclear Weapons and is committed to engaging constructively to identify possible pathways towards nuclear disarmament. In our 2021 national platform—a platform which has evolved over many years of activism within the Labor Party from people who care deeply about this issue and have worked incredibly hard to reach consensus—Labor committed to signing and ratifying the treaty, after taking into account the need to ensure effective verification and enforcement architecture. It is incredibly important that Australia is part of this conversation and we continue to lead— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:10</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHOEBRIDGE</name>
    <name.id>169119</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>We need to ban the bomb. One thing is certain: the longer we permit nuclear weapons stockpiling by governments, the risk of a catastrophic nuclear strike grows ever more imminent. Amid growing global instability, we need no reminders of the catastrophic consequences of nuclear weapons. These weapons ignore borders. They ignore humanity. They inflict lasting suffering on people and the planet, which it is impossible to mitigate. They are war crimes.</para>
<para>Australia itself has played an appalling part, an immoral part, in the nuclear weapons industry. We need to remember in this debate the complicity of the Australian government in the testing of nuclear weapons on the lands of the Pitjantjatjara people in Maralinga, and the ongoing damage and pain, the poisoning of land and water and the destruction of First Nations culture that Australia was part of in the nuclear weapons industry.</para>
<para>As Russian bombs hit Ukrainian cities and Saudi bombs destroy Yemen, peace has never been so urgent. One important step that Australia could take right now to signal that we are true advocates for peace would be to sign and ratify this treaty. There are no safe levels of nuclear weapons, and that is why the Australian government needs to ratify the Treaty on the Prohibition of Nuclear Weapons. Complete elimination of nuclear weapons is the only way to guarantee that they are never used again. The Treaty on the Prohibition of Nuclear Weapons brings nuclear weapons into the ranks of chemical and biological weapons, as they should be, as weapons of indiscriminate mass destruction, proscribed by international law. The fact that the Australian government is still refusing to sign and ratify this treaty, despite the change of government and despite the promises in opposition, puts us all at increasing risk.</para>
<para>I note that Prime Minister Albanese has been a vocal supporter of the treaty. Labor made pre-election pledges, and I recall the now Prime Minister being photographed holding and endorsing the treaty, alongside ICAN. Good on him in opposition, but what is happening now? In this debate, the position of Labor is that they will not sign this until there is universal endorsement. That is the Saint Augustine line, isn't it—'Oh, Lord, give me chastity and continence but not yet'? 'Not ever' is the test for Labor, because no international treaty has universal endorsement. Labor needs to stand up and make good on the promise that it took to the election—the promise it made to future generations; the promise it made to peace—and make Australia a global leader. That would make Australia the first country under the United States's so-called nuclear umbrella to become a state party of the treaty.</para>
<para>As the Greens and as my colleague Senator Steele-John pointed out, we are part of a proud history of people-powered resistance to the nuclear industry and peace activism. Together there is a powerful and growing anti-nuclear movement. I want to recognise the advocacy and the activism of those staunch campaigners who fought for decades to bring this treaty into action and who continue to stand up for peace and against the nuclear industry. That includes the amazing work of ICAN, the International Campaign to Abolish Nuclear Weapons. People said it could not be done, and then they did it. That is the lesson the Australian government needs to understand. People said to ICAN, 'You cannot do this,' and they did it. Now we need Australia to do its part and to join with Wage Peace and the Australian Nuclear Free Alliance.</para>
<para>At this point I want to recognise the courage, the strength and the advocacy of the survivors of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, who have come to Australia countless times to tell us about the indiscriminate violence of nuclear weapons. The Australian public has listened. Why won't the Australian government? We all now need to join together to build the most powerful anti-war movement in history. We need to stand together against the warmongers and the profiteers who want to endorse a nuclear industry. We know this: in any given year, there is a small but, tragically, growing risk that nuclear weapons will be used, the stockpile will be fired and our planet, our civilisation, will be destroyed. If we hold nuclear weapons for an indefinite amount of time, that small statistical risk in any given year means it's a certainty, over the arc of history, that they will be used.</para>
<para>We need to ban the bomb. We need to keep fighting for peace like our lives depend on it, because, in fact, they do.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:15</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ROBERTS</name>
    <name.id>266524</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Ridding the world of nuclear weapons is a laudable goal, and for this reason One Nation will be supporting this matter of urgency. To be consistent, though, I point out that the United Nations has failed at every peace initiative it has attempted in the last 77 years. I doubt this initiative will be any different. How will the United Nations achieve compliance from rogue states like North Korea and Iran? Will China be given a free pass on their nuclear weapons, in the same manner that the UN gives China a free pass on complying with 2050 carbon dioxide targets? I would love Australia to be treated the same as China on net zero. Imagine the lights that would be kept on in Australia, and the jobs and prosperity that could be saved. The UN has given China a free pass on labour camps yet had the hide to turn up in Queanbeyan, just down the road, last week to inspect our prisons for human rights abuses.</para>
<para>Humanity has not seen a world war since 1945. The United Nations did not do that; nuclear weapons as a deterrent to war did that. Yet nuclear weapons have served their purpose. Future wars will be served with robots and drones, not nuclear weapons. Uranium is better used as a wonderful source of electrical power, not military power. While passing this treaty is one thing, implementing it is quite another. If this treaty passes, the United Nations must implement the treaty fairly and have in mind the need to not change the balance of power amongst nuclear nations. Removing nuclear weapons unevenly from some nations and not others would increase the potential for plunging the world into a nuclear war—the opposite of this treaty's intention.</para>
<para>I wish the UN the wisdom and courage necessary to achieve this objective. Having demonstrated over the last 77 years the complete absence of these qualities, I'm not hopeful. Yet we must try, because it's the right thing to do. The world will be better completely without nuclear weapons. We are one flag, we are one community, we are one nation, and the time for nuclear weapons is over.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>241710</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the motion moved by Senator McKim be agreed to.</para>
<para> </para>
<para> </para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
          <division.header>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [17:21]<br />(The Acting Deputy President—Senator Dean Smith)</p>
            </body>
          </division.header>
          <division.data>
            <ayes>
              <num.votes>14</num.votes>
              <title>AYES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                <name>Cox, D.</name>
                <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                <name>McKim, N. J. (Teller)</name>
                <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                <name>Rice, J. E.</name>
                <name>Roberts, M. I.</name>
                <name>Shoebridge, D.</name>
                <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                <name>Thorpe, L. A.</name>
                <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                <name>Whish-Wilson, P. S.</name>
              </names>
            </ayes>
            <noes>
              <num.votes>32</num.votes>
              <title>NOES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Askew, W. (Teller)</name>
                <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                <name>Babet, R.</name>
                <name>Bilyk, C. L.</name>
                <name>Brockman, W. E.</name>
                <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                <name>Cadell, R.</name>
                <name>Canavan, M. J.</name>
                <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                <name>Dodson, P.</name>
                <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                <name>Grogan, K.</name>
                <name>Henderson, S. M.</name>
                <name>Hughes, H. A.</name>
                <name>Lambie, J.</name>
                <name>Lines, S.</name>
                <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                <name>McCarthy, M.</name>
                <name>McLachlan, A. L.</name>
                <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                <name>Payman, F.</name>
                <name>Polley, H.</name>
                <name>Pratt, L. C.</name>
                <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                <name>Smith, D. A.</name>
                <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                <name>Tyrrell, T. M.</name>
                <name>Urquhart, A. E.</name>
                <name>Watt, M. P.</name>
                <name>White, L.</name>
              </names>
            </noes>
            <pairs>
              <num.votes>0</num.votes>
              <title>PAIRS</title>
              <names />
            </pairs>
          </division.data>
          <division.result>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
            </body>
          </division.result>
        </division></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>53</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Consideration</title>
          <page.no>53</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>53</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Public Accounts and Audit Joint Committee</title>
          <page.no>53</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Report</title>
            <page.no>53</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:29</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ASKEW</name>
    <name.id>281558</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>On behalf of Senator Reynolds and the Joint Committee of Public Accounts and Audit, I present a report on the committee's activities for 2021-22 and executive minutes relating to several reports of the committee. I also present a report by way of a statement on the draft estimates for the Australian National Audit Office and the Parliamentary Budget Office for 2022-23.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>53</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Consideration</title>
          <page.no>53</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>54</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Australian Currency</title>
          <page.no>54</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>54</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:30</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McALLISTER</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I table a document relating to the order for the production of documents relating to the effigy of the sovereign on Australian legal tender.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>54</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Cost of Living Select Committee, National Anti-Corruption Commission Legislation Joint Select Committee</title>
          <page.no>54</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Membership</title>
            <page.no>54</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:31</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY</name>
    <name.id>241710</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>PRESIDENT ( Senator Dean Smith ) (): The President has received letters nominating senators to be members of various committees.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:31</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McALLISTER</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That senators be appointed to committees as follows:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Cost of Living—Select Committee—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Appointed—Senators Canavan, Hume and Dean Smith</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Participating members: Senators Antic, Askew, Birmingham, Bragg, Brockman, Cadell, Cash, Chandler, Colbeck, Davey, Duniam, Fawcett, Henderson, Hughes, Liddle, McDonald, McGrath, McKenzie, McLachlan, Molan, Nampijinpa Price, O’Sullivan, Paterson, Payne, David Pocock, Rennick, Reynolds, Ruston, Scarr and Van</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">National Anti-Corruption Commission Legislation—Joint Select Co mmittee—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Appointed—Senators Chandler, Scarr and Shoebridge</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Participating members: Senators Allman-Payne, Bragg, Cox, Faruqi, Hanson-Young, Lambie, McKim, Barbara Pocock, Rice, Steele-John, Thorpe, Tyrrell, Waters and Whish-Wilson.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BILLS</title>
        <page.no>54</page.no>
        <type>BILLS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Financial Accountability Regime Bill 2022, Financial Sector Reform Bill 2022, Financial Services Compensation Scheme of Last Resort Levy Bill 2022, Financial Services Compensation Scheme of Last Resort Levy (Collection) Bill 2022</title>
          <page.no>54</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p>
              <a href="r6905" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Financial Accountability Regime Bill 2022</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <a href="r6909" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Financial Sector Reform Bill 2022</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <a href="r6896" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Financial Services Compensation Scheme of Last Resort Levy Bill 2022</span>
                </p>
              </a>
            </p>
            <a href="r6902" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Financial Services Compensation Scheme of Last Resort Levy (Collection) Bill 2022</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>First Reading</title>
            <page.no>54</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:31</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McALLISTER</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That these bills may proceed without formalities, may be taken together and be now read a first time.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bills read a first time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>54</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:32</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McALLISTER</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That these bills be now read a second time.</para></quote>
<para>I seek leave to have the second reading speeches incorporated in <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline>.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">The speeches read as follows—</inline></para>
<quote><para class="block">FINANCIAL ACCOUNTABILITY REGIME BILL 2022</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">SECOND READING SPEECH</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Financial Accountability Regime Bill 2022 establishes the Financial Accountability Regime, or FAR, which replaces and extends the Banking Executive Accountability Regime following a number of recommendations from the Banking Royal Commission.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill underscores the Government's commitment to finalise the action necessary to fully address the Banking Royal Commission and implement measures that compel the financial services industry to act in the public's interest.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Financial services executives make decisions that impact upon the lives of ordinary Australians who have no choice other than to engage with the system that they operate. As a result, the community reasonably expects high standards of accountability and integrity of financial services directors and executives.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Banking Royal Commission revealed too many instances of misconduct across the sector and highlighted that industry practices often did not meet community expectations. These issues were frequently found to be systemic and part of corporate cultures that can only be improved and remedied from the top-down.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill would establish the FAR with the same design specifications proposed by legislation introduced in October 2021 which lapsed when Parliament was dissolved. The requests made by the former Senate Standing Committee for the Scrutiny of Bills and the Senate Economics Legislation Committee were considered and have been addressed in the Explanatory Memorandum accompanying the Bill.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The FAR would extend the existing responsibility and accountability framework to the insurance and superannuation sectors, to ensure that heightened accountability obligations are in place across the wider financial industry.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The FAR ensures that where these community expectations are not met, appropriate consequences will follow.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I would now like to turn to the provisions of the Bill.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The FAR imposes heightened accountability obligations for prudentially regulated financial institutions; meaning banks, insurers, and superannuation entities. These institutions are referred to as accountable entities in the regime. The FAR regulates directors and the most senior and influential executives of accountable entities. These individuals are referred to as accountable persons in the regime.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The FAR imposes four core sets of obligations. Firstly, accountable entities and accountable persons must conduct their business in a proper manner, which includes acting with honesty and integrity, and with due skill, care and diligence; dealing with Australian Prudential Regulation Authority (APRA) and Australian Securities and Investments Commission (ASIC) in an open, constructive and cooperative way, preventing adverse impact on the accountable entities' prudential standing and preventing breaches of certain specified financial services laws by their accountable entity.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Further, accountable entities must ensure clear identification of accountabilities for accountable persons in the organisation across key areas of operations, and defer at least 40 per cent of the variable remuneration of accountable persons for a minimum period of 4 years. Variable remuneration will be reduced where accountability obligations are breached. Ensuring there are financial consequences for accountable persons who do not meet their obligations will increase their focus on the long-term outcomes of their decisions.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The FAR will be supported by the imposition of notification obligations which require accountable entities to provide APRA and ASIC with certain information such as information relating to the responsibilities of their accountable persons or breaches of certain obligations by the accountable entities or their accountable persons.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Both APRA and ASIC will jointly administer the regime.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">They will have the power to disqualify accountable persons, investigate suspected breaches of the regime, and direct entities to take remedial action and to apply to the Federal Court to impose a civil penalty on accountable entities.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The FAR will apply to the banking industry six months after Royal Assent and to the insurance and superannuation industries eighteen months after Royal Assent.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Through this Bill, the Government is finalising the necessary action to ensure that financial institutions are meeting the community's expectations, and shifting their focus from profit at all costs to outcomes for all Australians.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Full details of the measure are contained in the Explanatory Memorandum.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">FINANCIAL SECTOR REFORM BILL 2022</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">SECOND READING SPEECH</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Financial Sector Reform Bill 2022 is part of a package of Bills that finalises a number of remaining recommendations from the Banking Royal Commission. It also delivers on the Government's commitment to ensure safe and well-regulated consumer markets for credit products, such as small amount credit contracts (also known as payday loans) and consumer leases.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It is disappointing that I have to introduce these measures here today. These measures all should have been implemented and introduced by the previous Government.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In February 2019, the former Treasurer promised to deliver his response to the Banking Royal Commission within two years. Even with Labor's full support, the Coalition chose not to prioritise the measures contained within this Bill that implement the response to the Banking Royal Commission.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The measures relating to small amount credit contracts date back even further—back to a 2016 report that laid out a clear path for the Government to act on payday lending. For nearly six years, the Turnbull-Morrison Government failed to act on this report.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">These failures reflect the Coalition's continued unwillingness to stand with Australians against misconduct in the financial service sector. This is a Coalition that voted against the Banking Royal Commission 26 times before finally acceding to it.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Nevertheless, I hope that we will secure the Parliament and the Opposition's support to the sensible measures I am introducing today. Schedules 1 and 2 to the Bill make minor and consequential amendments to various Commonwealth laws to support the Financial Accountability Regime and provide transitional arrangements relating to the repeal of the Banking Executive Accountability Regime (BEAR).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Schedule 3 to the Bill establishes a financial services Compensation Scheme of Last Resort (CSLR). The Government has committed to introducing a CSLR and today we deliver on this commitment.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill is part of a package of Bills that establish and fund the CSLR.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In 2019, the Banking Royal Commission endorsed the 3 principal recommendations of the 2017 Supplementary Final Report of the Review of the financial system external dispute resolution and complaints framework (Ramsay Review) regarding the establishment of a CSLR. The Ramsay Review noted the inadequacy of existing redress measures in ensuring all consumers are compensated for losses, and recommended the establishment of an industry-funded and forward looking CSLR that targets the areas of the financial sector with the greatest evidence of need.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The CSLR is designed to provide compensation to consumers who have received a relevant determination in their favour by the Australian Financial Complaints Authority (AFCA), where that determination remains unpaid.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Claimants may receive compensation of up to $150,000 where they have an unpaid AFCA determination in their favour for the following financial services or products: personal advice on relevant financial products to retail clients, credit intermediation, securities dealing and credit provision. The cap on claims helps maintain the ongoing financial sustainability of the scheme, whilst balancing the interests of consumers.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The operator of the CSLR will be a subsidiary of AFCA, limited by guarantee and operate on a not-for-profit basis. The operator must act in line with the primary legislation and regulations, with compliance ensured by ASIC. The operator will be managed by a Board consisting of an independent Chair appointed by the Minister, a person who is a member of the board of AFCA, and an actuary who has at least 5 years of actuarial experience.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The CSLR is designed to act as a last resort mechanism. After the claimant has notified AFCA that their determination remains unpaid, AFCA will be required, where appropriate, to take steps to ensure the relevant entity pays the compensation owed. The CSLR operator will also need to confirm that no other scheme is available to pay all or part of the compensation owed, including any state or territory arrangements.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Measures have been added to reduce the inclination of financial firms from relying on the CSLR and to facilitate better compliance with AFCA determinations. For example, ASIC must cancel an AFCA member's Australian financial service licence and/or Australian credit licence if the CSLR provides compensation to a claimant.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes the recommendations made by the former Senate Economics Legislation Committee, which were tabled on 15 February 2022, on the CSLR Bills introduced by the previous Government, including the recommendation to include managed investment schemes in scope of the CSLR. There have been no changes to the scope of the CSLR and the provisions being introduced today are substantively the same as those considered by that Committee. The CSLR provisions have only been subject to minor and targeted amendments to reflect the passage of time and further stakeholder feedback. The scope of the CSLR reflects financial products that have a history of unpaid determinations and have been subject to significant regulatory reform which have reduced the risk of misconduct. The Government will continue to consider potential enhancements to the regulatory framework of managed investment schemes.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Schedule 4 to the Bill amends the <inline font-style="italic">National Consumer Credit Protection Act 2009 </inline>(the Credit Act) to strengthen the consumer protection framework for consumers of small amount credit contracts and consumer leases through the introduction of new obligations for providers of these credit products.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">SACCs are loans of up to $2,000 where the term of the contract is between 16 days and 12 months while a consumer lease is typically a contract longer for household goods longer than four months where the consumer does not have the right or obligation to purchase the goods.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">These measures give effect to the Government's response to the 2016 Review of Small Amount Credit Contract Laws which identified a number of predatory lending practices that lead to some consumers experiencing financial hardship.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Key reforms including strengthened caps on the amount of income a consumer can spend on repayments before they are ineligible to enter into certain credit products; caps on the cost of consumer leases; equal repayment intervals for small amount credit contracts; and prohibitions on certain types of unsolicited communications and referrals.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Combined with anti-avoidance provisions, these reforms will enhance the existing consumer protections, including responsible lending obligations, while making sure these credit products are more affordable and less harmful.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government acknowledges that most of these reforms will require some time for industry to implement, so the bulk of the proposed changes will commence 6 months following Royal Assent.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Legislative and Governance Forum on Corporations was notified of this Bill as required under the <inline font-style="italic">Corporations Agreement 2002 </inline>and the <inline font-style="italic">National Credit Law Agreement 2009.</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Full details of the measure are contained in the Explanatory Memorandum.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">FINANCIAL SERVICES COMPENSATION SCHEME OF LAST RESORT LEVY BILL 2022</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">SECOND READING SPEECH</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill is one of two Bills which form the levy framework for the financial services Compensation Scheme of Last Resort (CSLR).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The CSLR levy framework is designed to establish an ongoing annual levy for entities that fall under a subsector in scope of the scheme. The framework will issue levies in advance of a financial year, based on expected claims in that upcoming financial year. The first ongoing levy is expected to be issued from January 2024 for the 2024-25 financial year.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The first year of operation (2023-24) will be partly funded by a one-off levy issued in the 2023-24 financial year, imposed on the ten largest financial sector entities (excluding private health insurers and superannuation trustees). This will fund the payment of compensation and associated costs relating to complaints lodged with AFCA, up to the date the Bills were introduced into the House of Representatives.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The ongoing levy amount in the subsequent financial years for a member of an in- scope subsector will be determined in line with the regulations. The regulations will impose levies on members consistent with the approach applied under the Australian Securities and Investments Commission (ASIC) industry funding model. The levy will factor in compensation amounts payable, associated Australian Financial Complaints Authority (AFCA) complaint handling fees, and administrative costs of the CSLR operator and ASIC.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The CSLR is designed to be financially sustainable and provide assurance to relevant financial market sectors about the maximum amount expected to be levied. The scheme applies subsector caps of $20 million and an overall scheme cap of $250 million. This limits the amount leviable within a single levy period, whilst maintaining the ability to accommodate any unexpected large-scale events or failures. The levy framework provides the Minister with the ability to issue special levies to in-scope and out-of-scope firms, in response to higher-than-expected outlays such as 'black swan' events.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Full details of the measure are contained in the Explanatory Memorandum.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">FINANCIAL SERVICES COMPENSATION SCHEME OF LAST RESORT LEVY (COLLECTION) BILL 2022</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">SECOND READING SPEECH</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill is one of two Bills which form the levy framework for the financial services Compensation Scheme of Last Resort.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The one-off levy imposed for the first year of operation (2023-24) will be issued by August 2023, and the ongoing annual levy will be issued in advance of each new financial year, with the first to be issued from January 2024 for the 2024-25 financial year.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The CSLR operator will estimate compensation and AFCA complaint costs to be paid out in the upcoming financial year, as well as associated administrative costs. These estimates will then determine the total levy amount for each sub-sector to meet expected outlays in the upcoming financial year.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Levy notices will be issued by the Australian Securities and Investments Commission (ASIC). ASIC will also be responsible for the collection of levies and have the power to facilitate and enforce the payment of levies. These powers include the ability to seek information from relevant firms for the purpose of correctly calculating the firm's levy, to impose penalties for late payment and to impose a shortfall penalty where incorrect information has been provided.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Full details of the measure are contained in the Explanatory Memorandum.</para></quote>
<para>Debate adjourned.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>National Health Amendment (General Co-payment) Bill 2022, Social Services and Other Legislation Amendment (Incentivising Pensioners to Downsize) Bill 2022</title>
          <page.no>57</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p>
              <a href="r6912" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">National Health Amendment (General Co-payment) Bill 2022</span>
                </p>
              </a>
            </p>
            <a href="r6903" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Social Services and Other Legislation Amendment (Incentivising Pensioners to Downsize) Bill 2022</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>First Reading</title>
            <page.no>57</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:33</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McALLISTER</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That these bills may proceed without formalities, may be taken together and be now read a first time.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bills read a first time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>57</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:34</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McALLISTER</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That these bills be now read a second time.</para></quote>
<para>I seek leave to have the second reading speeches incorporated in <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline>.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">The speeches read as follows—</inline></para>
<quote><para class="block">NATIONAL HEALTH AMENDMENT (GENERAL CO-PAYMENT) BILL 2022</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">SECOND READING SPEECH</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Today, I introduce the National Health Amendment (General Co-payment) Bill 2022. The amendments made by this Bill will cut the cost of medications by reducing the Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme (PBS) general patient charge, commonly referred to as a co-payment, from the current maximum of $42.50 per script, to a maximum of $30 per script.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme, or PBS, was established (in 1948 as a limited scheme) to ensure that Australians had equal and affordable access to life saving and disease preventing' medicines when they need them.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Establishing the PBS wasn't easy. It was John Curtin and Ben Chifley who fought hard to create this essential pillar of our healthcare system. It took two high court challenges, two referendums, constitutional changes, battles with the British Medical Association, the Liberal Party, and many others over 15 years to make it what it is today, which is a genuinely universal system, and perhaps, the best medical system pound for pound, in terms of bang for buck, that we have in the world.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It was a Labor Government that first introduced the legislation to make life- saving drugs more affordable (in 1944) and the Albanese Government remains committed to ensuring that the PBS enables Australians to access affordable medicines.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The PBS, is a key component of our health system, providing significant direct assistance—$13.8 billion in 2020-21—to make medicines affordable.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">As Minister I am absolutely committed to making sure the PBS works as well as it possibly can into the future.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">After nine years of neglect from the former government, costs of living are soaring and many Australians are cutting back on essentials in order to make ends meet. The Bill will help ease the squeeze on household budgets for millions of Australians.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill amends the National Health Act 1953 to reduce the maximum general patient co-payment under the PBS from the current maximum of $42.50 to $30.00. This reduction of $12.50 represents a saving of 29 per cent for general consumers.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">From 1 January 2023, around 3.6 million Australians with current prescriptions over $30 will benefit through this Albanese Government initiative. People filling a prescription for one medication per month will save around $150 a year, while a family filling prescriptions for two or three medications per month could save $300-$450 per year.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Approximately 19 million Australians will be eligible for savings under this Bill, with total savings for consumers calculated to be around $200 million each year.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill will ease the cost of living pressures that Australian households are feeling around the country.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">But this Bill will also have a profound benefit for public health.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">High medicines costs have meant that patients are choosing between the health care they need and providing for their families. The PBS co-payment for general patients has doubled since 2000 and according to ABS figures, more than 900,000 Australians delayed or did not get a prescription filled in 2019-20 due to the cost.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Albanese Labor Government will keep the costs of medications down and help to ease the cost-of-living pressures that Australians are facing. All Australians should have access to universal and world class medical care. No one should have to choose between filling prescriptions for potentially lifesaving medicines or providing for their families.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">No longer will general patients taking Eliquis for the prevention of stroke or Advair for asthma, or Janumet for diabetes have to choose between their script and their household expenses. This Bill will ensure they receive the essential medical care needed to prevent serious illness.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill will also ensure that no patient is worse off under this change, by allowing pharmacies to continue offering optional discounts where the Commonwealth Price is between the new and current co-payment amount. The amount paid by the patient under these arrangements will still be counted towards the general safety net threshold, ensuring that no Australians are adversely impacted by the changes.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Every year, and in fact nearly every month, this government is adding new medicines to the PBS and access to existing medicines is expanded to new patient groups in line with emerging evidence about the safety and effectiveness of those medicines for treating health conditions. Treatment options for patients are ever expanding and the PBS has continued to expand with them.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Some subsidised medicines that are available through the PBS can cost thousands of dollars per prescription, however these medicines are supplied to patients at a significantly reduced cost, where general patients will only pay a maximum of $30 per prescription with the Government covering the remaining cost.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The general patient co-payment will continue to be indexed on 1 January each year in line with existing indexation arrangements. Indexing from 1 January 2024 will be calculated off the new general co-payment amount, securing savings for Australians well into the future.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australians are paying the price for a decade of missed opportunities and through this Bill, we will make a real difference to household budgets for millions of families.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Albanese Government is taking action. We are tackling the day-to-day concerns of Australians. We have plans to make medicines cheaper and to make it easier to see a doctor.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Millions of Australians will benefit through cheaper medicines under an Albanese Government. Just like Medicare, it was Labor that built the PBS and Labor will always protect it so that all Australians can access affordable medicines when they need them.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">SOCIAL SERVICES AND OTHER LEGISLATION AMENDMENT (INCENTIVISING PENSIONERS TO DOWNSIZE) BILL 2022</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">SECOND READING SPEECH</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill delivers on an important election commitment of the Government to provide real support to older Australians confronted by the challenges of rising prices and soaring cost of living. It delivers amendments that will remove a potential barrier to pensioners downsizing their principal homes by reducing the impact this has in social security means testing.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill will reduce the impact of selling and buying a new principal home on pensioners and other income support recipients, consistent with the values of the Albanese Government. It is yet another important step to ensuring that no one is left behind and no one is held back in our Government's vision for the future of this country. It works in concert with the Government's separate commitment to allow people aged 55 years or over to make one-off downsizer contributions of up to $300,000 into superannuation when they sell their principal home. It also works together with this Government's decision to freeze deeming rates for a period of two years.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">These measures, working together, encourage more older Australians to downsize their homes, reducing the impact of downsizing on older Australians' access to pensions at the same time as improving housing access and affordability and enabling growing families more opportunities to find suitable housing options.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">From 1 January 2023, this Bill will amend the <inline font-style="italic">Social Security Act 1991 </inline>and <inline font-style="italic">Veterans' Entitlements Act 1986 </inline>to double the period of the automatic asset test exemption for principal home sale proceeds which a person intends to use for the purchase of a new home. It also ensures the financial assets of pensioners is calculated on the lower deeming rate, recognising the high prices and values of home sales at the moment could mean that the higher deeming rates would apply and discourage downsizing.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Under existing arrangements, an income support recipient's principal home is exempt from the social security assets test. When a person sells their principal home, these sale proceeds are exempt from the assets test for up to 12 months, so long as the person still intends to use the proceeds to purchase, build, rebuild, repair or renovate a new principal home. During this exempt period, the person continues to be treated as a 'homeowner' for means testing purposes for income support payments meaning that they remain eligible for their income support payments.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The rationale here is that the assets test exemption works to protect an income support recipient who's moving between homes from the potentially significant impact the sale proceeds could have on their support payments if the house sale were to be counted in their assets.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Given the currently high values of Australian real estate, in many cases an individual or couple wouldn't continue to be eligible for any income support payment if the full value of their home were to be counted. In the past, the exemption period is considered to be a reasonable amount of time for people to find or build a new principal home.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The exempt period generally ends when the income support recipient no longer intends to use the sale proceeds for a new home, or when they move into their new home. The current situation is that there's an additional extension available of up to 12 months in truly extenuating circumstances, for examples such as when there are building delays due to a natural disaster.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The amendments in this Bill that I'm bringing forward today will extend this assets test exempt period for principal home sale proceeds from the current maximum of 12 months to a new maximum of 24 months. The additional 12 month exemption for extenuating circumstances will continue, meaning that in exceptional cases, home sale proceeds could be exempt from the social security assets test for up to 36 months from the date of the house sale.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Let me tum now to the second part of the means testing arrangements that this Bill addresses. The second limb to social security means testing considers income. In this part, the value of the home sale proceeds that are intended to be used in buying and the financial assets of the individual are 'deemed' by applying a uniform amount of assumed interest gained from people's financial assets working. This saves recipients the complexity of having to bring forward evidence of their actual income derived from their financial investments. This component of means testing can also affects a person's rate of income support based on the threshold applied.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Financial investments might include a person's bank accounts, managed investments, shares and most superannuation. Investment income is assessed by applying the deeming rates to the total market value of a person's financial investments. The actual returns from the investments aren't used and any excess returns above the assessed income do not affect a person's payment rate and generally benefit individuals if their financial investments are performing better.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">From a policy perspective, taking into account some level of deemed income on principal home sale proceeds is appropriate, because if the proceeds are placed in a savings account or other financial investment, they would generally generate returns which a person can use to support themselves.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Under the current deeming rules, the lower deeming rate of 0.25 per cent per annum is applied to the value of financial assets up to a deeming threshold of $56,400 for singles and $93,600 for couples combined. The upper deeming rate, presently 2.25 per cent per annum, applies to the value of financial assets above these thresholds.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">These thresholds apply to principal home sale proceeds—even when they are exempt from the assets test—in the same way as for funds placed in other financial investments such as shares or bonds.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Again, given the high value of most Australian homes, this means the bulk of home sale proceeds are often subject to the upper deeming rate. This can have a significant negative impact on a person's pension or other payment rates and works as a considerable disincentive for pensioners considering downsizing their principal homes.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill will substantially reduce this barrier and disincentive for pensioners by ensuring that only the lower deeming rate is used to assess income on principal home sale proceeds which are also exempt from the assets test for between up to 24 months, with the possibility of a further 12 months for extenuating circumstances.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This legislative change will significantly reduce the amount of income deemed on assets test exempt principal home sale proceeds. It builds on the doubling of the exemption period by further reducing the impact on people's payment rates during the process of selling and purchasing a new principal home.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">As I have noted earlier, the Government has separately committed to freezing the deeming rates at their current levels for two years to 30 June 2024. This means that for the next two years, principal home sale proceeds which a pensioner or other income support recipient intends to use to purchase a new principal home will generate deemed income at a rate of only 0.25 per cent per annum.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Let me share two practical examples that illustrate how this Bill helps pensioners downsizing and reduces the impact of selling and buying a new principal home on their payment rates.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The first illustrates the benefit of extending the assets test exempt period and the application of the lower deeming rate. Consider a maximum rate pensioner couple who choose to downsize by building a new, smaller home that better suits their needs.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Under the current rules, if the couple sold their existing family home for $1,000,000 and say intended to use $800,000 of that amount to purchase, build, rebuild, repair or renovate a house of equal value, then the $800,000 would be exempt from the pension assets test for up to 12 months.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Without the changes in this Bill, assuming the couple put the full sale proceeds of $1,000,000 into a savings account and had no other financial assets, the deemed income assessed on this amount would be at the upper deeming rate of 2.25 percent on the one million dollars less the couple's deeming threshold amount of $93,600, which would be deemed at the lower rate. This would have the effect of reducing this couple's payment rate by around $229 a fortnight. The other significant impact is that the sale proceeds of $800,000 which the couple intends to use for their new principal home would be set aside from the assets test for only 12 months.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">On the other hand, with the changes to deeming and the assets exempt period in this Bill, in which the one million dollars less deeming threshold area of $93,600 would be deemed at only 0.25 percent, with the effect of reducing the deemed income on this couple's home sale proceeds to well below the free area of $336 per fortnight, meaning they would remain on the maximum pension rate.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">And in terms of the assets test which could knock out their eligibility for the pension entirely, what if a building delay outside the couple's control prevents their new home from being completed within 12 months? Under the current arrangements, they could apply for an additional 12-month asset test exemption due to extenuating circumstances but if there are further complications such as a flood or other natural disaster preventing the couple's new home from being completed by the end of the second year, the assets test exemption would expire and their home sale proceeds of $800,000 would be subject to the assets test. Under the current arrangements, after 12 months they would no longer be treated as 'homeowners' for means testing purposes.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Assuming they had no other assets, under the assets test for a non-homeowner couple, their pension would be reduced by a very significant $1,069.50 a fortnight to a part rate of $419.30 per fortnight.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Unfortunately, some people do face such repeated setbacks to the completion of a new home. We know with the pressures on the economy, labour supply and supply chains due to the impacts of the COVID-19 pandemic have had a significant impact on the building sector across the country, and many areas of Queensland and New South Wales have experienced repeated bouts of severe flooding over the last two years.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The amendments in this Bill will allow the asset test exemption to be extended to a total of 36 months in extenuating circumstances such as these, giving people more time and certainty to complete the building or purchase of their new home and have greater peace of mind.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Let me share a second example that illustrates the benefit of the changes to the deeming rules in this Bill.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Consider the case of a single pensioner, let's call him 'Nick', who sells his home for $600,000, intending to downsize to a smaller unit of equal value. As he intends to use the full amount to purchase his new home, the assets test exemption applies, and the $600,000 is exempt from the pension assets test for up to 24 months under the changes in this Bill.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Nick then deposits his sale proceeds in a savings account. He has no other financial assets.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Without the changes to the·deeming rules in this Bill, deemed income would be calculated on Nick's home sale proceeds at the lower rate of 0.25 per cent for the first $56,400, and the higher rate of 2.25 per cent for the remaining $543,600. As a result, Nick would have assessed income of $12,372 a year, or around $476 fortnight.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Pensioners benefit from an income test free area, which for singles is currently $190 a fortnight. This means the first $190 a fortnight Nick receives from any source, including deemed income from financial investments, does not affect his rate of pension. Nick's remaining income will reduce his pension by 50 cents for each dollar over $190.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Without the changes in this Bill, Nick's pension would be reduced by around $143 a fortnight.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">However, with the benefits of this Bill, the full $600,000 of Nick's home sale proceeds will be deemed at the lower rate of 0.25 per cent while they remain exempt from the assets test.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This would result in Nick having assessed income of only $1,500 a year. As he has no other income, this would not be enough to impact upon Nick's Age Pension rate.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In Nick's case, the amendments in this Bill would leave him $143 per fortnight better off during the period between selling his old principal home and moving into his new, smaller unit.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We know that people weigh up many factors in making the choice to sell a home and downsize to something smaller. One of the considerations that people make is how will this transaction impact on the income support that they receive. The changes in this Bill will assist older Australians contemplating downsizing who are concerned about impacts on their pension rate during the process of selling and buying a new family home applying the lowest deeming rate and giving them a longer period of time to finalise the purchase or construction of their new home.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The changes in this Bill will apply to all people who sell their principal home from the later of 1 January 2023, or one month and one day after the Bill receives Royal Assent.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">These changes are beneficial for affected pensioners and other income support recipients, and are expected to cost $61.4 million in underlying cash terms over 4 years to 2025-26.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The changes in this Bill build on the Government's separate commitment to allow people aged 55 years or over to make one-off downsizer contributions of up to $300,000 into superannuation when they sell their principal home. By encouraging more older Australians to downsize their homes, these measures will improve housing access and affordability and allow growing families to find more suitable housing options.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Albanese Labor Government is deeply committed to serving all Australians and ensuring that no matter what your circumstances, we do everything that can be done to leave no one behind and hold no one back in their lives. This measure is yet another building block that we are putting in place to help ordinary Australians manage in the challenging economic times that we face, ensuring that pensioners can take full advantage of choosing to downsize their homes and maximise the potential of that without negatively impact on their pensions.</para></quote>
<para>Debate adjourned.</para>
<para>Ordered that the bills be listed on the <inline font-style="italic">Notice Paper</inline> as separate orders of the day.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BILLS</title>
        <page.no>61</page.no>
        <type>BILLS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Financial Accountability Regime Bill 2022, Financial Sector Reform Bill 2022, Financial Services Compensation Scheme of Last Resort Levy Bill 2022, Financial Services Compensation Scheme of Last Resort Levy (Collection) Bill 2022</title>
          <page.no>61</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p>
              <a href="r6905" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Financial Accountability Regime Bill 2022</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <a href="r6909" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Financial Sector Reform Bill 2022</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <a href="r6896" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Financial Services Compensation Scheme of Last Resort Levy Bill 2022</span>
                </p>
              </a>
            </p>
            <a href="r6902" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Financial Services Compensation Scheme of Last Resort Levy (Collection) Bill 2022</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Assent</title>
            <page.no>61</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo></subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>REGULATIONS AND DETERMINATIONS</title>
        <page.no>61</page.no>
        <type>REGULATIONS AND DETERMINATIONS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Superannuation Industry (Supervision) Amendment (Annual Members' Meetings Notices) Regulations 2022</title>
          <page.no>61</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Disallowance</title>
            <page.no>61</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:37</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DAVID POCOCK</name>
    <name.id>256136</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Superannuation Industry (Supervision) Amendment (Annual Members' Meetings Notices) Regulations 2022, made under the Superannuation Industry (Supervision) Act 1993, be disallowed [F2022L01162].</para></quote>
<para>Australians have more than $3.3 trillion invested in superannuation. According to the Australian Prudential Regulation Authority, APRA, we pay some $9.1 billion per annum in fees, but the Grattan Institute point out that many superannuation funds don't report the fees that they pay to companies who help to manage their members' investments. When you add that all up it puts the true cost significantly higher, at around $30 billion per annum. That's $30 billion of Australians' money going to superannuation companies in fees alone. I'm moving this motion to disallow because I believe we should know how that money—our money, superannuation members' money—is being spent. I'm moving this disallowance because I believe in more transparency, not less.</para>
<para>I've listened to the arguments from both sides of this debate. I've heard the arguments from the government, unions and industry super funds that the regulations used by the former government are poorly drafted, create an unduly onerous compliance burden and were ultimately created for use as a political weapon. I've heard the opposition's argument that some super funds are used as a vehicle for donations but in less obvious ways than just via political donations, which the new regulations still require to be disclosed. Unions argue their presence and associated director fees on boards help ensure good outcomes for super fund members. Consumer bodies express concerns that the current government's wind-back of the previous government's measures goes too far. They've said, 'We need a greater level of transparency over how funds are spending their members' money.' I think they're right. The truth likely lies somewhere in between the two major parties' views on this issue. It's certainly something I've received a lot of correspondence on from people in the ACT. People want to know where their super fund is spending their money.</para>
<para>The government's public reasoning is that a requirement for a fully itemised list across all categories—marketing, sponsorships, director fees—would impose higher compliance costs ultimately borne by members. But funds are required to disclose this to APRA anyway, so I don't see how there are compliance costs if it's simply including the disclosure they send to APRA to their members. Funds are looking after their money, investing on their behalf. Members should know who those fees are going to.</para>
<para>We also know, after the government put through this regulation, allowing superannuation funds to put out their annual statements with aggregated amounts, that greater disclosure is possible. Prime Super and the Commonwealth Superannuation Corporation are two recent examples; they've both released detailed lists of their expenditure on marketing, sponsorship and director fees. It didn't seem too hard for them.</para>
<para>It's important we find a balance that puts transparency first. My sense from the recent election and talking to people across the ACT and elsewhere is that Australians want more transparency across the board, from the way government is operating to being able to see where their superannuation fees are going.</para>
<para>I respect Senator McKim and what he's seeking to do, in negotiating a solution with the government on this issue. But I point out that, in the time he has taken, superannuation funds have sent out their annual statements, most with an aggregated amount for these various categories, and we're none the wiser as to where that money is going. They've taken advantage of a watered-down transparency measure, which was the first regulation issued by the new Assistant Treasurer.</para>
<para>According to the Grattan Institute, a 2018 study showed that Australians paid more than $30 billion a year in super fees. That equates to almost two per cent of Australia's annual gross domestic product. That's much more than the $23 billion we spent on energy in that same year. A household nearing retirement pays average superannuation fees of $3,700 a year. These are not trivial amounts; these are things we should be looking at. We should be ensuring that there is transparency, and that super fund members can see where their money is going and can make an informed decision as to whether that sits well with them.</para>
<para>Superannuation is, clearly, a massive industry with huge power. It's really important that we keep that power accountable, because people's retirements rely on a well-regulated, high-performing sector. There are so many reform priorities needing attention in this space, from chasing down the hundreds of millions of dollars in unpaid superannuation entitlements to reforms that will stop super being used by wealthy individuals to pay less tax. These reforms should be a priority, not reducing transparency in super fund spending, and I'll be encouraging the government to take it on at the earliest opportunity.</para>
<para>It's been disappointing to see Senator McKim pushing for more transparency but, at the same time, putting off dealing with this and potentially disallowing a regulation which is reducing transparency—after an election that, you could say, was about integrity and transparency. It's a poor move. Senator McKim asked for two weeks to be able to negotiate with Minister Jones and get a good outcome for superannuation members. That two weeks has come and gone.</para>
<para>I'm moving this disallowance motion because I believe this is important to Australians. This does matter, and I don't see the downside in having more transparency. The argument about regulatory burden is an absolute furphy. We know already that there have been funds that have used the old regulations; they didn't see it as too burdensome. So, having moved this, I ask the Senate to debate this and, ultimately, vote on whether or not we think that less transparency is a good thing.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e68</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I don't have a speakers' list in front of me. I don't want to state World War III on this but I did see Senator Roberts move. I'll be led by the Senate. Senator Roberts, the minister is on her feet but I will give you the call. You wanted to raise something with me?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Roberts</name>
    <name.id>266524</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I just wanted to clarify that Senator Rennick was standing to speak before I was—I was just moving seats—but I do want to speak later.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e68</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Absolutely, no dramas. With the indulgence of the Senate, Minister?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:47</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McALLISTER</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank all of the senators for their courtesy in navigating the arrangements about which order we may speak in. I listened carefully to Senator Pocock's contribution and, in particular, his commitment to seeking more transparency and not less, and I listened to many of his other observations about our questions that need to be balanced in thinking about the financial system in this way.</para>
<para>There is not much between us, in fact, Senator Pocock, in listening to your remarks, because Labor is committed to delivering accountability, transparency and good governance in every part of our financial system. It's why we committed to the recommendations in the Hayne royal commission that expand accountability on banks, super funds and other financial services providers. The Albanese government believes that Australians deserve a dignified retirement supported by a strong superannuation system.</para>
<para>Let's be honest: the super system, $3.4 trillion, is world class. It is the fourth largest in the world, even though our economy is the 13th largest. This is a big Australian success story. Unfortunately, those opposite—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Rennick</name>
    <name.id>283596</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>It's a world-class rort!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McALLISTER</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>and you can hear it now in the interjections from Senator Rennick—have been waging a tireless ideological battle against the sector. The government, by contrast, is working in the national interest, not a narrow partisan interest, and we're committed to strengthening the system in the interests of working families.</para>
<para>There is a difference, though, between us, Senator Pocock—through you, Chair—in approach and in the implementation arrangements. The regulations that the previous government introduced regarding the notice of annual member meetings was clunky and, like so many things in relation to superannuation, ideologically motivated. Producing mountains of paper, riddled with double counting, doesn't help.</para>
<para>We expect significant disclosure on the categories of expenditure undertaken by superannuation firms on behalf of their members, but a line-by-line accounting of every item serves no useful purpose. The regulations proposed introduce simplicity and clarity to this process while maintaining that transparency and accountability that I believe we have a shared commitment to implementing, Senator Pocock. Annual member meetings themselves are unchanged, allowing members to examine in great detail the expenditures of their funds.</para>
<para>We're not going to take lectures in accountability and transparency from the people on the other side, because the previous government presided over a decade of cover-ups and rorts. Their leader swore himself into multiple ministries and hid that from the Australian community. It's hardly time to be lecturing other people about transparency.</para>
<para>Our government is committed to cleaning up the mess. We're committed to improving the outcomes of super members so they can retire with dignity and comfort. We are committed to ensuring members receive information from funds that is clear and simple, with annual member meeting notices. We are committed to streamlining disclosure requirements with the national accounting standards so that funds are aligned with the financial services industry. The approach we are advocating for will improve transparency and accountability. It will clean up the unnecessary and burdensome red tape to ensure members can access the information they need in a clear and simple manner. It will assist members in preparing questions ahead of meetings and ensuring they can keep their funds accountable. Funds will continue to be required to disclose an itemised list of political donations.</para>
<para>AMMs are an opportunity for fund members to genuinely engage with their fund. They are an opportunity to hear from the board of trustees, directors and executives, and ask questions about important topics such as fund performance and operation. These reforms are critical to ensuring members can genuinely participate by providing them useful information, assisting them to participate by giving them information in a straightforward way.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:51</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HUGHES</name>
    <name.id>273828</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Albanese Labor government has reversed the requirement for super funds to disclose how they spend from super funds on sponsorships and payments. No line items, no transparency, no accountability. These payments from super are for things such as million-dollar footy sponsorships, corporate boxes, union kickbacks and lobbying. Australians deserve to know how their retirement savings are being spent. The changes go against recommendations from the Productivity Commission and APRA. If we want to have a serious conversation about transparency for a $3 trillion industry, it shouldn't start with supporting the winding back of measures designed to let the sunlight in. All senators elected on a platform of integrity must support this disallowance.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:52</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RENNICK</name>
    <name.id>283596</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>What would you call the offspring of communism, Marxism and fascism? Of course, the answer to that is superannuation. First of all, it's communism because in 1992 Paul Keating introduced superannuation that takes the workers' wages. He didn't give them a choice. It started at two per cent. He said, 'We're going to give it to someone you've never met, and there's no guarantee you're going to get it back when you're 60.' Just like the vaccine mandates. That money was taken from them. If Paul Keating had taken that to an election, do you think it would have got up? Absolutely not. If Paul Keating had said in 1992 that by 2025 you were going to have 12 per cent of your wages taken out—wages of workers, mind you, who build this country. This country was built by the battlers, not by the blowhards who are sucking $30 billion of fees out of superannuation ever year. It was built by the battlers.</para>
<para>I still argue it is a breach of the Constitution. You are taking away their property rights without any guarantee that they will get the capital returned to them when they are 60, discounted for present value. Communism. Marxism. What we've got now is industry super funds, and BlackRock and Vanguard in the private sector. I'm not doing this from an ideological Left versus Right platform. I'm doing this from the view point of the big guy versus the little guy: the little guys who get up every day, get out of bed and put their nose to the grindstone. They get the lowest wages in this country, and you're ripping off 12 per cent of their income to give it to someone they've never met so they can gouge $30 billion in fees every year. What you've done is taken that money, which is 'unelected' money, and there's no control over how it's spent. The superannuation boards are not elected by the members. That undermines all the powers of the individual in how their money is spent. Then the superannuation funds appoint their own directors to appoint their own ideological agendas.</para>
<para>When Senator McAllister says it's an ideological battle—can you say 'damn' or not? I won't say it. When Senator McAllister says it's an ideological battle, you're straight that it is You're very correct that it is, because the superannuation boards are using this to push their ideological boards. This is also fascism, because we've now got corporations that are that large. These superannuation funds have hundreds of billions of dollars under management, and they are now telling governments what to do. They are that rich and powerful—some of the money in these superannuation funds across the world mean these funds are bigger than countries' economies. The power of this centralised wealth is becoming a threat to democracy, because of the people running these things, like Larry Fink from Black Rock. Who holds that bloke accountable? Who holds the superannuation funds accountable when they decide they want to spend money on something? No-one. You do not even get to appoint the board members. Can I say—and I'm glad Senator Pocock raised this—the Productivity Commission found that $30 billion in fees are ripped out of superannuation every year. For what? Nothing but paper shuffling.</para>
<para>Do you want to know why we have a shortage of workers in this country? Because we have too many blowhards in this country pushing pens and shuffling paper when they should be out there building infrastructure, producing goods and services, rather than buying and selling shares on the stock market all day, which produces nothing—it produces nothing. This superannuation and the guys that rip off $30 billion a year make Al Capone look like Mother Teresa. This is the biggest racket since the prohibition in the 1930s, mate. If you want to get upset about bikie gangs, I tell you what: these superannuation funds, mate, they're extorting more money out of the workers' pockets every year than bikies ever do.</para>
<para>I'll tell you something else: $50 billion. You read the budget papers tonight, and it will be in the tax expenditure statement. There will be $50 billion in tax concessions for superannuation that mainly go to the upper 20 per cent of income earners. It goes to the same people in those wealthy suburbs that Labor are now mates with—the teals. If you want to talk about rorts and all the rest of it, what about the tax concessions that go to superannuation? You know what? What's the pension for? The people who get the pension are the bottom 70 per cent of earners, so the bottom 50 per cent of earners get a full pension and the next 20 per cent a partial pension. They get very little of those tax concessions. The tax concessions for the wealthy now cost more—or just about; they're one or two billion short—than the cost of the pension. I would rather have a universal pension that was—</para>
<para>A government senator: You introduced that legislation!</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RENNICK</name>
    <name.id>283596</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>No, don't interject. This was introduced by Paul Keating and it was pumped up all the time. We shouldn't have pumped it up. I should acknowledge Senator Richard Alston, who fought very hard against superannuation when it first came in and we should never have opposed him. The Liberal Party coalition should have opposed it from the get-go—and I'll say that to my colleague Senator Cadell who's listening here—because it rips out 12 per cent of income from the regions and Western Australia and those magnificent towns in regional Western Australia, Senator Sterle, and it goes to the ivory palaces in Sydney and Melbourne, where they shuffle their paper and might come in and turn on their screens in the morning, then go and get a coffee and buy a zoot suit for this weekend's triathlon, come back and get a physio. These guys are not the people producing goods and services in this country, and there is way too much wasted on unproductive activity. That is why I totally reject superannuation.</para>
<para>But I haven't finished yet. Of that $3.3 trillion, over a trillion dollars is invested offshore in offshore infrastructure. This country is crying out to build more infrastructure. But do you know what superannuation funds do? They don't build infrastructure because they haven't got the patient capital. The only entity that can build long-term infrastructure is the government. For these guys, it's what they won't do, but they'll buy infrastructure.</para>
<para>You would have noticed that AustralianSuper went in and bought Sydney Airport last year. The Auditor-General was running a protection racket for Sydney Airport. They didn't want the Western Sydney airport built, so they came up with this bogus argument that somehow we paid too much for the land around Sydney Airport, which wasn't true. Anyone that knows accounting standard AASB-13 knows that paragraphs 29 and 30 say that you pay the highest market price regardless of valuation—even though it actually had zoning for an airport.</para>
<para>I should also add that this superannuation robs Peter to pay Paul. Since superannuation was introduced, the number of people who retire with a mortgage has increased from 10 per cent to 40 per cent. We now have people who retire at 60 or 65, pull their superannuation out as a lump sum, pay off their home loan and then go on the pension. Someone that I used to work with in Sydney, at Westfield, bought a $3 million house in Seaforth and had a million dollar deposit. He was 55. He was waiting to get to 65 and he was going to pull out his pension, pay off his mortgage at Seaforth—the other $2 million—and then go on the pension. So there are ways around this, where wealthy people milk the system. But I would say this: if you have a $500,000 mortgage and $100,000 in superannuation, you are getting clipped twice. You are getting fees on your superannuation fund and you are getting fees on your mortgage. It is much better to net off your investments rather than get shafted twice by financial institutions.</para>
<para>Ultimately, this comes down to transparency, and I commend Senator Pocock for actually raising this and trying to bring this disallowance into the chamber. I am going to watch what the Greens do here very, very carefully, because they always go on about transparency and accountability. I will be very disappointed if they do not support Senator Pocock in this motion. It will highlight their hypocrisy if they do not support this motion and it will show that they too are subservient to the union elites—not the members. We love the members. The members are the battlers of this country. I want to be very clear here: I am not going to attack unions per se. They have a role in this country to protect the battlers. But superannuation is not protecting the battlers; it is milking them dry.</para>
<para>I would just like to finish on that note and say to the Greens: this is your chance to stand up to Labor and show that you can think for yourself. I am never going to let you guys forget this if you don't support this. We need to stop the rorts, and there is no bigger rort in this country than superannuation.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:02</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ROBERTS</name>
    <name.id>266524</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>There is nothing more important in a democracy than people's confidence in the result of an election. There is nothing more important than people having confidence that the government is there to represent them and that the election results are from a fair and honest process. It is vital for trust, it is vital for investment, it is vital for the future and it is vital for the future of our governance and our sovereignty. There is nothing more important.</para>
<para>Before turning to Senator Pocock's disallowance motion, I want to say that today I moved motion No. 51. It was very simple: that there be laid on the table by the Special Minister of State by no later than 9.30 am on 27 October 2022 any reports, briefing notes, file notes and emails of 13 December 2021 or later held by the Australian Electoral Commission that relate to compliance with sections 273AA and 273AC of the Commonwealth Electoral Act 1918 which relate to the security of computer systems and ballot paper sampling for a Senate election. That was opposed by the Liberal Party. That was opposed by the Labor Party. That was opposed by the Nationals. That was opposed by the Greens. I will speak more about that in a minute.</para>
<para>The minister, Senator McAllister, talks about mountains of paper. Really? Let me tell you about a mountain of paper in a motel in Port Macquarie after the most recent federal election. Someone from out of town came and stayed in that motel and they found, in the wastepaper basket, ballot papers from the seat of Paterson, the next electorate. There were mountains of paper. We cannot trust our election process. We have holes in our election process everywhere: electronically, paper-wise, scrutineering—everywhere.</para>
<para>In the last parliament, I introduced legislation requiring an election audit. Our federal elections have never ever been audited. How can people have faith in that? Go onto any social media site—people are crying out that they don't trust the election results. When I introduced that legislation, the Liberals opposed it, Labor opposed it, the Greens opposed it, and the Nationals opposed it. Fortunately, Ben Morton was the minister assisting the Prime Minister, and he approached us and said that, now that he knew where we were, he wanted to introduce similar legislation. He reintroduced it with two or three minor changes. We helped him do it, and it passed the Senate. It came into being. The Australian Electoral Commission was then required to do an audit of the last federal election in the weeks leading up to the election and in the weeks after the election. That meant auditing the process for the election, the results and whether or not the processes were complied with. But the Australian Electoral Commission, despite that clear instruction in the legislation from the people, did not properly audit that election. Yet they claim they did. Now we have the Liberals, Labor, the Nationals and the Greens wanting to hide their donations.</para>
<para>In the last federal election, Labor got less than one-third of the votes, but they're forming government. The Liberal and National parties got 34 per cent. One-third of the people in the last election did not vote for Labor, the Liberals or the Nationals. But the mouthpiece media is on the side of the Liberals, Labor and the Nationals, and they're hiding the truth. People need to see the truth. We will continue chasing an audit that's done properly, and we need to shine a light on the truth. That's why I'm supporting Senator Pocock's disallowance motion—to give the people the details. We are servants to the people who are the citizens of this country; we serve them. They deserve to know the details of the spending. As Senator Rennick pointed out, it's their money, and I want to make sure that they get those details. We will be supporting Senator Pocock's motion.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:07</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATERS</name>
    <name.id>192970</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator McKim, as our Greens Treasury spokesperson, would normally be delivering this speech, but he's in lock-up this afternoon, so I get the gig.</para>
<para>It won't come as a surprise to anyone that the Greens won't be supporting this disallowance motion. However, this should not be interpreted as the Greens endorsing the new government's new regulations. Our view is that the previous government's regulations were no good, but the new government's regulations are not much better. We may well move or support a disallowance of these regulations before the statutory time period to do so has expired, but, as with all disallowance motions, we have a binary choice: we can either accept or reject a new set of rules for what information is provided by super funds in their annual member meeting notices.</para>
<para>The requirement of super funds to hold annual member meetings was legislated only three years ago, and the explanatory memorandum for that legislation spoke of:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… the importance of increased accountability through higher levels of engagement and effective communication between trustees and their members.</para></quote>
<para>This portrays the logical fallacy sitting at the heart of this debate: the fallacy of free-market capitalism, where the only thing individuals need to do to optimise their financial position is to fully inform themselves so that they can act rationally in the market and maximise their returns. Except people don't spend the evening on the first Tuesday of each month pouring over financial statements! Also, on average, you're likely to get a lower return out of your super fund.</para>
<para>In 2019 the Productivity Commission reviewed the super system and found that not-for-profit industry funds performed better than for-profit retail funds. They found, secondly, that keeping your super in a default product was likely to yield a better return than if you chose to put your money elsewhere. That's the quintessential economic rationalists saying that most people were better off not playing the market, because their default super fund—usually a not-for-profit fund—was likely to do a better job of managing their money. But, even if we lived in a free market nirvana, neither the previous government's regulations nor the new government's regulations would provide anything close to useful information for people to make a rational decision.</para>
<para>Senator Pocock was tweeting about the lack of details on $140 million in expenses listed on AustralianSuper's AMM notice. Do we know what the $140 million means under the new government's regulations? Not really. Would we know what it means under the previous government's regulations? We would have had an itemised breakdown of the $140 million, but we still wouldn't have any context. Under both the previous government regulations and the new government regulations, the annual member meeting notices only give member details on their fund. Now $240 million is a big number, but it's always going to be a big number for AustralianSuper, because they are the biggest super fund in the country. They've got 2.3 million members. Would that information be provided under the old or new regulations? No. What about a benchmark of AustralianSuper's expenditure compared to other funds? Again, no.</para>
<para>The outgoing chair of APRA, Wayne Byres, who has been regulating super for the last eight years, provided a useful perspective in a speech he gave last week. He said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Transparency has been key to increasing the discipline on trustees to ensure they are always managing members' money in their best interests. In saying that, I am not suggesting every single thing about a fund's operations must become public … pumping out reams of raw data is not going to be helpful. Information must be disclosed in a manner that is digestible and informative if it is to be useful.</para></quote>
<para>That is exactly what the Greens would like to do in this situation: have meaningful transparency. We are in discussions with the government about developing a scheme to provide this, as the chamber already knows. In our minds, this would be an annual super transparency report, published by the regulator, APRA, that tables all of the relevant expenditure, including for political purposes and for profit, for all super funds, all in the one place. This would enable members to understand how their super fund rates. It would also enable institutional scrutiny from the media, NGOs and parliamentarians on expenditure by super funds and on profit-making by super funds, which is far more likely to bring about meaningful change than either of the regulations that we're choosing between today.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:12</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRAGG</name>
    <name.id>256063</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The point here is that the super scheme has been running for almost 30 years and only in 2021 was the parliament able to enact the sorts of changes that should have been features of the original scheme's design. That goes to having a performance test, it goes to reducing multiple accounts, it goes to putting beyond doubt the legal obligations of the trustees to work only in the interests of the members and not to waste members' money, and it also goes to the transparency arrangements which the Labor Party has now stripped from the legislation.</para>
<para>Those four things are all designed to ensure that the system is being run for the members, because this is one of the biggest things that we do here in this parliament: we pass a law that takes away 10.5 per cent of the worker's money and puts it into a mandatory scheme. There may be good arguments for this, if it were to be well run and if it were to reduce the call on the taxpayer over the longer term. And there are strong arguments that we have not achieved that. But the idea that the concept of a performance test; and the idea of reducing multiple accounts; and the idea of putting beyond doubt the legal obligations of the trustees to the members, not to the vested interests of the banks or unions; and the idea that member statements, which transparently provide the information about where their money is going, would be bad things is insane. But that was the position of the Labor Party when they voted against the legislation here in this place in the last parliament, and that is the position today of the Labor Party.</para>
<para>I call this government 'the government for vested interests', and the king of vested interests is Mr Stephen Jones, who is the minister. You go through his first priorities since being in this portfolio, and his first priority is to strip out transparency. While he is stripping out transparency through the regulation that he's made, he's also reviewing the best financial interest test. Why would you review the best financial interest test? The only reason you would review the best financial interest test would be to admit payments from funds which are banned today. The reason the best financial interest test was put in place was that, at Senate estimates, it was very clear that the prudential regulator, APRA, was not enforcing the prior law, which was the sole purpose test. There were funds that were making political donations. Political donations are not payments from super funds to unions. They are explicit payments that have been paid from a super fund into the coffers of a political party. There was a fund called Sunsuper which had made direct political payments into the Queensland branch of the Labor Party. At Senate estimates, APRA said it was okay for super funds to do that. That led the then government to legislate to ensure that that point was beyond doubt, that that could not happen. Why would you be reviewing the best financial interest duty unless you wanted to admit some sort of murky payment? That is going on in the background. That is something that Minister Jones is pursuing through the Treasury.</para>
<para>The other thing he is doing, concurrently, is he has legislation before this parliament to change the performance test. He wants to create a special class of funds, religious based funds, which he wants to allow to perform less strongly than all the other funds. That is an extraordinary precedent when you think about it. You could have a faith based fund being given a licence to perform less strongly than any other fund. That is a shocking precedent. I say to the people who love superannuation: this is a very bad idea. There are a lot of kooky ideas in this place, and if you break the dam wall and break down that key test—that the money is only there for the members and the workers—then you will have all sorts of crazy ideas being used as justification.</para>
<para>But the matter before the Senate today—I commend Senator David Pocock for moving this disallowance—is about transparency of the expenditure of the funds. That's what it's about. Minister Jones put out an exposure draft of the regulation at 5.30 on a Friday night a few months ago. He must have been very proud of it. He talked to the industry about the regulation and took a few submissions in. Then he put out another; he made the final regulation. The only difference between the regulation that was an exposure draft and the final one was that he explicitly said he wasn't going to let political donations be made.</para>
<para>But the real money here is not political donations. As I said before, there would be only a very small number of instances where a fund has made a direct payment into a political party. The big money here is the transfers to the unions—on the most recent data we have from the AEC, it was $12.9 million in 2020-21, it will be $15 million this year most likely and it will be getting up to $30 million by the end of the decade. Some funds are gifting the unions $2 million and $3 million in a financial year. That information is only available because of the AEC records. It is only available because the unions, which are registered organisations, have to lodge returns with the Electoral Commission, and on those returns they have to say, 'Here is where my income is coming from.' Because of that we were able to work out where the money is going.</para>
<para>As a result of this regulation having now been made to cover up the itemised expenditure, a member of a super fund can now get more information about their fund's activities by trawling through the paper based returns that are stuck on the AEC's website than they can in their own member statement that they're supposed to receive once a year. That is an extraordinary turn of events. But of course it is a lot of money, and these organisations have a lot of influence over the government.</para>
<para>An amount of $30 million by the end of the decade would include some of the largest contributions to any organisation in Australia that wanted to run any kind of campaign, so I understand why they want to cover it up. But the purpose of the change is clear. The outworking of the change through the initial disclosures, as Senator Pocock referred to, indicates that a fund like Australian Super, because of this regulation, is now able to cover up $109 million in related party transactions which were required to be released under the old regulation. In addition to that, there is a bit over $1 million in payments made to unions, or industrial body payments. Previously we would have been able to see which unions these funds were going to.</para>
<para>People want to talk about the whole superannuation industry. Why would you not have a situation where all of the funds had to disclose all of their related party transactions? It doesn't make any sense to cover this up for any purpose. The fact that it's being done so brazenly, and the fact that this chamber is going to give cover to this, really is the most disappointing feature. People who have argued for transparency and people who have argued that it's important to have integrity in government are now going to permit this huge covering up.</para>
<para>The good news is the longer this regulation that Mr Jones has made remains in force, the stronger the case will be for there to be another regulation made to go back to the future. Ultimately, it can't be sustained that it's in the country's interests to run a disclosure regime where you can hide literally hundreds of millions of dollars in related party transactions to God knows who and, in addition, hide millions of dollars in payments to unions and other bodies. That is the key point.</para>
<para>This is an unsustainable position that the chamber has taken today on this disallowance. There is no question that we'll have to come back and revisit this. The only key point that's left to say is that the longer the regulation is in place the stronger the case for reverting will be. Members will be able to see as much information on their member statements as they would be able to access from the AEC. Last time I looked, most Australians didn't go to the AEC website to see what their super fund was doing.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:21</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SCARR</name>
    <name.id>282997</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak in favour of this disallowance of the Superannuation Industry (Supervision) Amendment (Annual Members' Meetings Notices) Regulations 2022. I do congratulate Senator Pocock for this motion, which I think is terribly important.</para>
<para>In this place during the last sitting, I got up and gave a speech in relation to the performance of a listed public company called Cleanaway, its environmental performance and it's renumeration outcomes. I could do that because it is an ASX-listed public company and there was granular disclosure in its annual report released on the Australian Securities Exchange. I could go through that report and hold it accountable for concerns I had with respect to its environmental performance for the people of Ipswich. That's what transparency delivers, and that's all we're seeking—transparency in relation to reporting to the members of the superannuation fund. It's their money, it's the members' money. It isn't the money of the super fund; it's the members' money.</para>
<para>As Senator Pocock has said, and has written about previously, people are concerned about this issue. Given the concern, why not disclose? What is the issue? What are they scared of? Given the interest, why not disclose? I haven't heard any cogent argument against disclosure. I used to be a company secretary of a listed public company. This argument about compliance costs and reams of paper is just an absolute nonsense. These superannuation funds would have accounting systems that would be able to access the relevant information quickly and easily. The cost of compliance is absolutely immaterial in the scheme of things. There is a legitimate public interest in favour of disclosure and transparency, and given that legitimate public interest—indeed, it's more focused than that, the interest of members of the industry super funds want to know this information. Given their interest, why not disclose? Why not be transparent and disclose?</para>
<para>I listened very closely to Senator Waters' arguments, and I couldn't tell at times whether her argument was in favour of transparency or not. I don't know about other members of the Greens, but I don't think her heart is in this debate in terms of arguing against this disallowance. I think there's something going on behind the scenes here. I'm not sure what it is. I'm not sure what the Greens and Labor are negotiating.</para>
<para>On the face of it, I can't see any reason why the members of the superannuation fund should be denied the opportunity to make their own assessment of this relevant information. That's what you're doing, you're denying the members of the super fund to make their own assessment of that information. Why deny them that right? It makes absolutely no sense, unless you consider particular vested interests that those opposite, in government, are seeking to protect from the position of the government benches. That is the only reason why you would be against transparency in this situation.</para>
<para>The costs argument is just ridiculous. It's immaterial. These industry super funds have obligations to keep accounts and to keep track of all this information, so the costs argument is just absurd. It's embarrassing you even raise it in this context, given the billions and billions of dollars we're talking about under management. The only reason you would disagree with Senator Pocock in this regard is if you're trying to protect vested interests and they're scared about releasing this information. That is the only reason.</para>
<para>Ask yourselves why. Why don't they want this information to be released? Why not? That's the very reason why it should be disclosed. That is the very reason why it should be disclosed. Because of that very reason, it should be disclosed. I commend those who have argued in favour of this motion. I think you're absolutely correct, and I congratulate Senator Pocock in this regard. I think his radar is right on track, and I'm happy to support him in this respect.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The motion before the Senate is that the motion moved by Senator Pocock be agreed to.</para>
<para> </para>
<para> </para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [18:30]<br />(The Deputy President—Senator McLachlan)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>27</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Askew, W.</name>
                  <name>Babet, R.</name>
                  <name>Bragg, A. J.</name>
                  <name>Brockman, W. E.</name>
                  <name>Cadell, R.</name>
                  <name>Cash, M. C.</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                  <name>Davey, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                  <name>Henderson, S. M.</name>
                  <name>Hughes, H. A.</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J.</name>
                  <name>Liddle, K. J.</name>
                  <name>McDonald, S. E.</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J.</name>
                  <name>McLachlan, A. L.</name>
                  <name>Nampijinpa Price, J. S.</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, M. A.</name>
                  <name>Paterson, J. W.</name>
                  <name>Payne, M. A.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                  <name>Rennick, G.</name>
                  <name>Reynolds, L. K.</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M. I.</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A.</name>
                  <name>Scarr, P. M. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Tyrrell, T. M.</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>29</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                  <name>Bilyk, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                  <name>Cox, D.</name>
                  <name>Dodson, P.</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D. E.</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                  <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                  <name>Grogan, K.</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                  <name>Lines, S.</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                  <name>McKim, N. J.</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Payman, F.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                  <name>Polley, H.</name>
                  <name>Pratt, L. C. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Rice, J. E.</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                  <name>Shoebridge, D.</name>
                  <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                  <name>Thorpe, L. A.</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, A. E.</name>
                  <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, P. S.</name>
                  <name>White, L.</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names />
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.<br />Sitting suspended from 18:34 to 20:30</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division></subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BUDGET</title>
        <page.no>69</page.no>
        <type>BUDGET</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Statement and Documents</title>
          <page.no>69</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>20:30</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I table the budget statement for 2022-23 and other documents as listed on the Dynamic Red.</para>
<quote><para class="block">The Budget 2022-23—Statement by the Treasurer (Dr Chalmers), dated 25 October 2022.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Budget papers—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">No. 1—Budget strategy and outlook.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">No. 2—Budget measures.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">No. 3—Federal financial relations.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">No. 4—Agency resourcing.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Ministerial statements—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Regional ministerial budget statement 2022-23: Investing in our regions with purpose and integrity—Statement by the Minister for Infrastructure, Transport, Regional Development and Local Government (Ms C King) and the Minister for Regional Development, Local Government and Territories (Ms McBain), dated 25 October 2022.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Women's Budget Statement 2022-23—Statement by the Minister for Finance; the Minister for Women and the Minister for the Public Service (Senator Gallagher) and Treasurer (Dr Chalmers), dated 25 October 2022.</para></quote>
<para>I seek leave to move a motion in relation to the documents.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate take note of the budget statement and documents.</para></quote>
<para>Debate adjourned.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Proposed Expenditure</title>
          <page.no>70</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Portfolio Budget Statements</title>
            <page.no>70</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>20:31</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I table the portfolio budget statements for 2022-23 for the Department of the Senate, the Parliamentary Budget Office and the Department of Parliamentary Services.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Portfolio Budget Statements</title>
            <page.no>70</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>20:31</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I table portfolio budget statements for 2022-23 for portfolios and executive departments as listed in the Dynamic Red.</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">The list read as follows—</inline></para>
<quote><para class="block">Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry portfolio.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Attorney-General's portfolio.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Climate Change, Energy, the Environment and Water portfolio.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Defence portfolio—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Defence</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Department of Veterans' Affairs.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Education portfolio.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Employment and Workplace Relations portfolio.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Finance portfolio.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Foreign Affairs and Trade portfolio.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Health and Aged Care portfolio.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Home Affairs portfolio.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Industry, Science and Resources portfolio.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Infrastructure, Transport, Regional Development, Communications and the Arts portfolio.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Prime Minister and Cabinet portfolio.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Social Services portfolio.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Treasury portfolio.</para></quote>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>ADJOURNMENT</title>
        <page.no>70</page.no>
        <type>ADJOURNMENT</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Tassie Mums</title>
          <page.no>70</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>20:31</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BILYK</name>
    <name.id>HZB</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>We know families throughout Australia have been doing it tough, facing a housing and homelessness crisis and rising cost of living. Shamefully, the previous government dropped the ball on escalating housing waiting lists, on cost-of-living pressures and on addressing the needs of women escaping family and domestic violence. While tonight's budget makes a strong start towards addressing these pressures, there is no doubt that charities are also doing an incredible job in difficult times. I visited the headquarters of one of these charities last week, a wonderful Tasmanian charity called Tassie Mums. I came across this charity when I met their founder, Clair Harris, at the Hobart building community forum and again at a Country Women's Association high tea fundraiser for the charity. Clair volunteered for a similar charity called St Kilda Mums before she moved to Tasmania. On arriving in Tasmania, Clair saw a service gap that needed filling and that motivated her to start Tassie Mums seven years ago—in fact, it's their birthday this week.</para>
<para>Tassie Mums collects donations of new and preloved items for babies and children up to 12 years of age, such as clothing, shoes, toys, nappies, cots, prams and bassinets—anything a young person up to about the age of 12 might need. The collected items are then donated to the children of families in need, such as those experiencing financial stress, homelessness, family and domestic violence, and mental health issues. Tassie Mums identify and connect with their clients by partnering with around 60 government and community service organisations that work with vulnerable families. To give you an idea of the scale of Tassie Mums' operation, in the last financial year, they assisted 1,352 children throughout Tasmania, roughly double the number they supported the previous year. Their operation got so big that they had to move out of their old 99 square metre premises into the much larger space they now have.</para>
<para>I have to say, when I went around to see them, Clair and Tassie Mums operations manager, Madeleine Glover, showed me around and there were rows of shelving all neatly stacked with donated items. They manage all of this with less than two full-time equivalent staff, thanks to their team of more than 30 dedicated volunteers working throughout the state. They have volunteers helping with collections, sorting, bundling, washing and mending donated items, delivering and picking up donations and orders, administration tasks and fundraising. If they run low on an essential item, like they did recently with a particular size of nappy, they'll put a call out to their more than 9,000 Facebook followers and then end up, hopefully, flooded with donations, at which point they need to post another message to say, 'Thanks but we've got enough.'</para>
<para>I'd like to say a huge thank you to both Clair and Madeleine for taking the time to show me the wonderful work they and their volunteers do and for the incredible service they provide to hundreds of families in need throughout Tasmania. It's comforting to know that there are wonderful charities like Tassie Mums available to step in and help when young children and their families face issues like homelessness, family and domestic violence, and financial hardship. Something as simple as providing a few of the basics of living can make a big difference to a struggling family. I truly commend Tassie Mums for their amazing work, but at the same time I really wish it wasn't necessary. As amazing as Tassie Mums's work is, we should not rely solely on charities such as them to look after families that have fallen on hard times.</para>
<para>Earlier tonight Labor delivered its first budget in nine years, and it was firmly focused on relieving the pressures on struggling families. It was a budget that helped encouraged more women's workforce participation by extending paid parental leave to 26 weeks and making child care cheaper for more than 1.2 million families, measures which will also help address the rising cost of living. Labor is also squarely focused on tackling the housing and homelessness crisis. In tonight's budget the government announced we will deliver 40,000 new social and affordable homes, including 30,000 homes from the Housing Australia Future Fund and an additional 10,000 dwellings under the new housing accord. We are legislating for 10 days paid family and domestic violence leave, which will help women and their children rebuild their lives after surviving and escaping violence.</para>
<para>When it comes to helping families, there is a role for government and a role for charities. We are a government that wants to work with the charities to deliver the best outcomes for people in need.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Bali Attacks: 20th Anniversary, Lucev, Mr Dusan</title>
          <page.no>71</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>20:36</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DEAN SMITH</name>
    <name.id>241710</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak on the recent 20th anniversary of the Bali bombings. Early on the morning of 12 October, as the sun rose over Perth, survivors, their loved ones and several hundred members of the public gathered at the memorial in Kings Park to lay wreaths and commemorate this historic anniversary. Two decades on it has lost none of its impact. Two hundred and two people were killed in the brutal attack at Paddy's Pub and the Sari Club, 88 of them Australian and 16 of those from Western Australia. It was and remains very close to home.</para>
<para>At the 20th anniversary ceremony we heard powerful speeches from survivors that reminded us of the very best in the Australian character. Antony Svilicich said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The knowledge that more people visit Bali now than prior to the bombings shows that they failed to scare us away.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We can rest assured the Australian spirit has not been broken. Our spirit remains strong, open, free and tolerant in the memory of those lost.</para></quote>
<para>Bali Memorial Association secretary Fiona Ross lost her brother, David. She shared how her memories of the event and its aftermath remained 'awful and terrible', but she was buoyed by the countless acts of love and kindness that followed the tragedy.</para>
<para>Perth's northern suburbs is where I grew up. It's where my office is based, and it is a part of the world which I often talk about. It's a part of the world that was not immune from those devastating attacks. Those who lived and worked and played sport there before dying in Bali are very well and warmly remembered. The local high school, Greenwood College, of which one of my staff is an alumnus, flies flags at half-mast on 12 October to commemorate the loss of four former students. A plaque there, presented by the graduating class of 2002, pays tribute to Byron Hancock, Corey Paltridge, Jason Stokes and Jonathon Wade. Those four former students are also remembered by the Kingsley Football Club, which marked the 20th anniversary of the bombings with a legends footy match.</para>
<para>In October 2002, 20 young men from the club, elated to have won their first premiership, flew to Bali for an end-of-season celebration. Tragically, only 13 of the teammates made it home. In addition to those I've mentioned, I add David Ross, Anthony Stewart and Dean Gallagher as those who didn't return. It says a lot when the surviving team members were offered the opportunity to fly home but, instead, they chose to stay and search for their missing colleagues. But as significantly as Western Australia was affected, so too it contributed to the recovery. Twenty-eight people were flown to the Royal Perth Hospital for treatment. The WA Museum currently has an exhibition dedicated to the bombings, showcasing the selfless doctors and nurses who treated burns patients.</para>
<para>The message I, and I think many people, draw from these tragic events is that cooperation, love and survival won out over fear and hatred. Indeed, the friendship between Australia and Indonesia has endured, has grown stronger, despite the events of 2002. Australians frequent Bali in greater numbers than before the attacks. While grief and loss continue, all this confirms the perpetrators of the Bali bombings are and will remain defeated.</para>
<para>Recently I was delighted to attend the renaming of a reserve in Balcatta, near my electorate office, in Perth's northern suburbs. Those that know Perth's northern suburbs well will know it's a place with a deep multicultural history—the place where many people have come and built their lives and grown their families. This particular recreational space now pays tribute to the life and community legacy of the late Mr Dusan Lucev. The ceremony last month brought together representatives of the City of Stirling, many locals and, of course, family and friends of the Lucev family.</para>
<para>Dusan Lucev was a pioneer of the Balcatta area, a Croatian migrant born in 1907 on the island of Prvic Luka. In 1923, at the age of 16, he came alone to Australia to build a better life. His first stop was Queensland, but he later moved to the south-west of Western Australia and then made Balcatta his home. His legacy, his memory, is one we can all be very proud of. I'm delighted to have been invited by his family to share in that very important event to mark his legacy to a wonderful part of Perth's community.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Racing Industry, India: Kashmir</title>
          <page.no>72</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>20:41</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARUQI</name>
    <name.id>250362</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Melbourne Cup is on again next week. Seven horses have been killed at the last nine Melbourne Cup races. And that's just part of the story. The horseracing industry continues to tolerate cruel practices like whipping and tongue-tying, and the overbreeding and slaughter of horses continues.</para>
<para>This gambling fuelled animal cruelty in the name of entertainment should have ended a long time ago. But we know the racing industry is very powerful and well connected. Their interests are protected and advanced over and above animals and people. In Melbourne, the construction of a flood wall protected the Flemington racecourse from damaging floodwaters recently, while flooding was made much worse for people living in the surrounding area. That's the scale of influence the gambling and racing industries have. They will let nothing interrupt the Cup carnival—not even the global pandemic, as it turned out.</para>
<para>Every year the spring races receive tremendous amounts of glowing coverage from media publications, with dedicated racing journalists and the form guide. An analysis by Crikey found that the Everest horserace, held in Sydney in October, attracted enormous positive media coverage, particularly in the Nine papers. On 17 October, Crikey reported:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Since October 9 <inline font-style="italic">The Sydney</inline><inline font-style="italic"> Morning Herald</inline> and its Sunday sister <inline font-style="italic">The Sun-Herald</inline> have published 58 articles on The Everest. These stories profiled mares from both human and horse perspectives, stroked the egos of trainers, talked in fairy-tale terms of "heroes" and "villains", workshopped solutions for horse hay fever …</para></quote>
<para>This uncritical garbage is tolerated because there is a powerful group of vested interests here that mutually benefit from the ongoing relevance and monetary advantage that horseracing brings to them, so they wilfully ignore the treatment of animals and the gambling harm on society. The major parties fill up their pockets with donations from gambling companies, the media relies on huge amounts of advertising from the industry, and this horrendous cycle goes on.</para>
<para>But it doesn't have to be this way. The end of horseracing is not some fantasy. The industry has effectively lost its social licence, and more and more people are boycotting the Melbourne Cup every year. According to a recent independent poll, commissioned by my office, 54 per cent of those polled and 70 per cent of 18- to 24-year-olds agree that horses should not be raced for gambling and entertainment. It's way past time to say nup to the Cup and nup to this gambling fuelled cruelty. Just shut it down.</para>
<para>In the next couple of minutes, I would like to address another topic. Since 1947, the year the British carved up and departed the Indian subcontinent, after centuries of lives taken, of looting and extracting wealth and resources, Kashmir has been a disputed territory. The date 27 October has been marked by the Kashmiris as Black Day and many around the globe show solidarity with them and their fight for self-determination.</para>
<para>For decades, India has tried to hide what is happening in Kashmir by silencing Kashmiri voices. The oppression and violence has dramatically escalated under the regime of current Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi. In 2019 the Indian government revoked the special status of Kashmir, which had allowed it some autonomy, and imposed a brutal crackdown on dissent. Kashmir was cut off from the world, with internet and mobile communications suspended. Compliant multinational tech companies removed posts, blocked videos and shut down accounts trying to expose this brutality. The Modi government has also used draconian laws to silence journalists and activists, while Indian armed forces have stepped up their presence on Kashmir's streets, with many new security checkpoints established.</para>
<para>The people of Kashmir have the right to sovereignty and self-determination, but these rights have been trampled on for far too long. Entire generations of Kashmiris have grown up knowing nothing but conflict. Amnesty International reports that there have been more than 50,000 lives lost since 1989. Still, Kashmiris are courageously resisting.</para>
<para>I urge the Albanese government to break the indefensible silence of the previous Morrison government on human rights abuses against Kashmiris. The Labor government must condemn the Modi administration for its human rights abuses in Kashmir and support the rights of Kashmiris to self-determination.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Due South Australia</title>
          <page.no>73</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>20:46</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator UR</name>
    <name.id>231199</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>QUHART (—) (): Due South Australia—who are they? One might think they're a South Australian organisation, but they're based in Tasmania. They are a self-funded organisation with their sights set on delivering world-class wellness initiatives for first responders and veterans. This charity operates three purposely designed homes, an off-grid adventure property, a farm and a community hub, all of which are based in my home town of Ulverstone on the north-west coast of Tasmania. They are designed to be a home away from home for military veterans and first responders who attend the courses that they offer.</para>
<para>The initiatives run by Due South Australia are specifically designed to help in the transition, personal development and, importantly, the mental health of the selfless individuals who continue to serve a purpose greater than their own. Due South Australia is a 100 per cent self-funded organisation providing wellness initiatives during the months of May to November each year. This is called a midyear reset. These wellness initiatives are planned and delivered by a selfless and driven group of volunteers. Due South Australia is proud to be completely operated by volunteers, and they guarantee that their business model will never include wages.</para>
<para>I met with the directors of Due South Australia, Peter and Barry, a couple of weeks ago in Ulverstone. Peter had served in the military for 24 years, seeing active service in East Timor, Afghanistan and Iraq, and humanitarian service in Banda Aceh, in the wake of the Boxing Day tsunami, Ukraine after the tragic downing of MH17, and numerous other deployments around the globe. He also set up successful businesses on the north-west coast of Tasmania, with his wife, while serving. He and Barry, a community minded and successful businessman, have teamed up to create this awesome vision called Due South Australia. They run a private enterprise in Ulverstone, the Seasonal South motel. They call the motel the 'engine room for Due South', where the output of their team's effort is the driving force to self-fund.</para>
<para>These gentlemen take no wage but create local jobs and give back to our first responders and veterans with their great team of volunteers. Not only do their team of all volunteers run wellness courses between May and November each year but also they run a community hub every day of the year, at the motel, for first responders, veterans and the community. The Seasonal South motel is a welcoming place, where the Ulverstone community come to connect, share and learn. The hub bridges the gap between first responders, veterans and the wider community to connect with each other and with organisations that can provide health, education and support programs.</para>
<para>The three homes accommodate the attendees of the wellness and reconnection programs that run between May and November each year. During the other six months, they house the Pacific islander workforce participating in the Seasonal Worker Program to support our agriculture industry. This is setting not only a new standard in charity work but a new and very high standard of housing for our Pacific workforce while they live and work here in Australia for extended periods. When any donations are received, a minimum of 90 per cent goes directly to veteran and first responder support programs and a maximum of 10 per cent goes to admin costs—no wages, all volunteers. This is setting a new standard in veteran charity work and reduces the stress on limited government funding or the ongoing running costs from a handout to a hand-up.</para>
<para>These courses benefit not only the participants but regional Australia, with these fine Australians visiting the towns and local businesses which help in the transition of veterans and first responders attending emergencies every day back into their community and back into the civilian workforce. In turn, it helps families grow their relationships back to a strong bond after years of long deployments. Attending emergencies and training exercises makes a more healthy and sustainable society for those who serve our community here and around the globe.</para>
<para>Giving back: this is what Australia is, and should be, about. Labor is proud to support this great initiative, and I must say that, having met these two guys, they are very selfless and I am very proud to have them living in my home town of Ulverstone.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Budget</title>
          <page.no>74</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>20:51</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BROCKMAN</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise on this budget night to address a couple of issues in tonight's budget. Obviously, it is early days. It's less than an hour since the budget speech was delivered, and, as with all complex documents, the devil is always going to be in the detail, so there is much work to be done in analysing this document and seeing where it hurts and who it hurts. But already a couple of things leaped out at me. These are only small programs—I admit that—but they're close to my heart.</para>
<para>I was deeply saddened, actually, to see in the budget a cut to support for agricultural shows. This isn't a large amount of money. It's only $2.8 million, but agricultural shows in our regions are the lifeblood of many communities. Just this year we've finally seen the return of the ag shows in my home state of Western Australia. Senator Smith is in the chamber and he would agree. I know he comes to the ag shows as well. We've finally seen the ag shows get up and running again after a couple of very hard years. These shows are huge events in their local communities—the Dowerin Agricultural Field Day, Newdegate and a number of agricultural shows across Western Australia which just represent so much to their local communities. The amount of support from the federal government wasn't large. It was a relatively small amount of money in budgetary terms, but it just gave those agricultural shows a lifeline in those years when they could not operate and could not earn any money, when the businesses in those communities could not participate and when agricultural industries could not showcase themselves to their own communities—such a vital endeavour. Yet this government, in its first budget, has taken the opportunity to take a $2.8 million save out of supporting agricultural shows.</para>
<para>That comes on top of the decision to cut round 6 of the Building Better Regions Fund, which has supported so many good projects across rural and regional Australia—small projects. These are projects which wouldn't normally get the attention of a federal government and which wouldn't normally be able to be funded by the sporting club or the local community or the local shire council but which gained a lifeline through the Building Better Regions Fund. We've seen that round 6 cut: 815 applications. That represents 815 community groups across this country who worked hard to put those applications in. In some cases, those applications would have been the result of thousands of dollars of volunteer labour and hundreds of hours of work from volunteers in putting those applications together. And all those projects were just sent a letter that said: 'Sorry. No chance. You're not going to get any money. There might be a program you can apply for in the future. We'll see.'</para>
<para>That is 815 community groups across rural and regional Australia who were just after a bit of a lifeline—a bit of help for a project that otherwise would not see the light of day. These projects aren't massive things. They're cultural and language centres on the Albany Harbour foreshore. They're upgrades to airstrips at places like Laverton and Katanning in Western Australia—small rural and regional communities. They don't have the funds to do these kinds of upgrades and projects themselves. The Building Better Regions Fund offered them a lifeline,—a chance to get some funding from the Commonwealth government and have these projects taken forward—and it's deeply saddening to see these cuts in this budget.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Australia: Natural Disasters</title>
          <page.no>74</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>20:56</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DAVEY</name>
    <name.id>281697</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The floods that have impacted most of eastern Australia over the past few weeks have exceeded all expectations across New South Wales. What started out as an amazing spring season for so many of our farmers and croppers has been ruined. The financial cost to Australian agriculture and production will be immense. Damage done to towns and to businesses is hard to reconcile, and local councils will be paying to repair roads for years to come. Many homes will never be repaired or rebuilt.</para>
<para>Through it all, we've seen the most amazing community efforts. Hundreds of thousands of sandbags have been filled. Kilometres of levee banks have been built—within days in some instances. Volunteers have come to help move stock, and organisations like the Salvation Army and the Red Cross are doing what they do best: being in the right place at the right time. Certainly, these are not the worst floods we've ever faced, and they won't be the last. The horror experienced by Lismore and the Northern Rivers in March this year put us on high alert.</para>
<para>Both the royal commission into bushfires and the New South Wales July 2022 flood report have talked of the need to streamline processes. Indeed, the Labor Party crucified our government for not acting unilaterally as a federal government over and above states and their wishes. Yet now they're in control, they are learning it is not so easy. Crucially, they're learning that not all states talk the same language when it comes to emergency preparedness or response. For example, New South Wales and Victoria are both giving different river levels and different expected river flood peak times for the same river—not just the same river system; the same river. It has the same towns; they are just on different sides of the border.</para>
<para>There is a range of assistance measures available through a combination of federal and state programs, but there's no clarity on how assessments are made or when they're triggered or where to go to get assistance. Some adjacent local government areas have different approvals for funding, even though they're affected by the same weather event. Each state has enacted different levels of the Commonwealth-state Disaster Recovery Funding Arrangements, despite the funding available to each and how they initiate it being exactly the same for both. Small businesses in flood affected New South Wales can apply for concessional loans, while no local government area in Victoria yet has that available, but they do have it available for primary producers.</para>
<para>The federal government also need to come clean on why decisions that are wholly within their remit are not consistent. For example, people in the Moira shire on the Victorian Murray River are not eligible for the Commonwealth-funded disaster recovery payment of $1,000 per adult, yet just next door, those in the Campaspe shire are. Yet both shires have a level of disaster recovery funding arrangements in place. And when I last checked, not a single person in New South Wales is yet eligible for that $1,000 per adult, despite many shires having consistent disaster recovery funding arrangements. In all of those shires in New South Wales, people can apply for disaster recovery allowance for 13 weeks if they can't work. There is no consistency here. Communities are confused, and so am I.</para>
<para>We know each disaster is different, but each must be used as a learning exercise, and all governments must work together to provide consistency and clarity. I call on the federal government in particular to stop tweeting that more local government areas are eligible for funding and to start telling people how to access the information about that funding. Not one of the emergency management minister's tweets provides a link for people to get the information. My office is inundated with calls: 'Where do I go to get information?' The government must provide clarity. The government must work with the states. People need consistency.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Human Rights: Iran</title>
          <page.no>75</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>21:01</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CHANDLER</name>
    <name.id>264449</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The government of Iran—the dictatorship of Iran—is killing Iranian women and girls. Day after day, week after week, women and girls in Iran are being shot, beaten to death or kidnapped and never seen again. They are being attacked by the regime's forces in their schools, their homes and in the streets for doing nothing more than refusing to cover their hair as the dictatorship demands or for protesting against the killing of women and girls the day before or the day before that.</para>
<para>If ever there were a case for democratic nations to stand up for the human rights of women and girls, this is it. Australia could start by leading the way on having the Iranian regime removed from the UN Commission on the Status of Women. It has now been six weeks since I first suggested that Australia must take a stance on this. By leading the charge on correcting this absurd and disgusting validation of the Iranian regime, we could have sent a message that, as far away from Iran as we are, we will not stand by and do nothing as women and girls are killed. But six weeks later, there's been not a single word from the Prime Minister or the foreign minister on Iran's position as an UN-endorsed expert on women's rights.</para>
<para>Many of our closest allies have already used sanctions against the Iranian regime to send a message. The US, the UK and Canada have all applied various forms of sanctions against Iranian leadership and the leaders of the so-called morality police responsible for much of the violence. But what actions has Australia taken and what sanctions has Australia applied in response to the murder of women and girls? None. Our government has not just done less than our allies and partners; it has done nothing.</para>
<para>Women and girls in Iran are showing incredible bravery, standing up to their oppressors despite knowing their protest is putting their life and their liberty directly at risk. Every day we see new stories of Iranian women defying the danger to themselves to take a stance for their rights and the rights of their fellow Iranian women. Today I read of Professor Mona Khatami from a Tehran university who, amidst a government crackdown on universities, cancelled her classes, posted a photo of herself without a headscarf to social media and said, 'We won't be back.' What courage. We have no way of knowing what will happen to Professor Khatami and thousands of other Iranian women who have protested in the same way. Tragically, we must assume that they are now in mortal danger.</para>
<para>As Canada's foreign minister told a meeting of the world's female foreign ministers last week, democracies have a moral obligation to help the incredibly brave women of Iran. Canada, like many of our international allies, has sanctioned Iranian leaders. Australia has not. To the immense frustration of Australia's Iranian community, we have heard nothing whatsoever from our Prime Minister or government about tangible, diplomatic actions Australia intends to take in response to the violence against Iranian women. It is not sufficient to simply say, 'Australia condemns the violence,' or, 'Australia calls on the Iranian government to stop the violence.' This is a time for action.</para>
<para>Authoritarian regimes which get away with violence and contravention of international law only become further emboldened to break more and more international laws and perpetrate more violence. So it is that in recent days we've learned that Iran is actively involved in Russia's assault against Ukraine through the provision of drones and personnel. Not content with killing citizens in its own country, Iran's rulers are helping Putin to kill citizens in another. What more does our government have to hear before taking action?</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Rockhampton Ring Road</title>
          <page.no>76</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>21:05</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SCARR</name>
    <name.id>282997</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to make some comments in relation to the Rockhampton Ring Road, which was the subject of some discussion earlier today during question time. Whilst I didn't have the benefit of participating in the budget lock-up this afternoon, I had my own mini budget lock-up, which went for about 40 minutes, and I want to walk through what I could discern in relation to the Rockhampton Ring Road in that short period of time.</para>
<para>First, I want to start this story with reference to a transcript of a doorstop interview Minister Catherine King gave on Monday. When asked about the Rockhampton Ring Road, this is what Minister King said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Yeah, the money that $823 million for the Rockhampton Ring Road is in the Budget. It remains in the Budget. There are no cuts in fact to infrastructure investment programs for roads in Queensland at all. No cuts at all. That project will happen but—</para></quote>
<para>and of course there's a but—</para>
<quote><para class="block">of course what we're seeing right the way across the country is significant capacity constraints and I don't want to pretend to people that it's going to be delivered tomorrow. I don't want to pretend that, I want to deliver the project, I want to do that in partnership as I need to with the Rockhampton Ring Road. But we're being realistic about the timeframes for delivery.</para></quote>
<para>That's what Minister King said on Monday 24 October.</para>
<para>It's interesting to compare those words with what then shadow minister Albanese said before he became Prime Minister. In an article published on Monday 24 September 2018, this is what he said in relation to the Rockhampton Ring Road:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The Coalition should stop playing games. The people and businesses of Rockhampton deserve certainty.</para></quote>
<para>That's what he said—it's off his own website—in relation to the Rockhampton Ring Road on 24 September 2018, more than four years ago. Yet, his own minister, Catherine King, in a doorstop on Monday said she's not going to pretend it's going to happen tomorrow. I ask you, Prime Minister: Is that playing games with the people of Rockhampton? Is that delivering the certainty they need?</para>
<para>I then sought a media statement that was made on 22 January 2019. Interestingly, when you go to the Prime Minister's website and you look for a copy of this media statement—I don't know if it's my IT ability—you get, 'Nothing here but me, sorry,' and a picture of a dog. I think it's the Prime Minister's dog, Toto, that's there, but you can't find the article. But the article is cached, so you can see what was said. This is what the now Prime Minister said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">A Shorten Labor Government will deliver the project, not just talk about it.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">…   …   …</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Federal Labor's commitment to the Rockhampton Ring Road builds on our strong track record of delivering for Central Queensland the last time we were in office.</para></quote>
<para>That's what the Prime Minister said on 22 January 2019:</para>
<quote><para class="block">A Shorten Labor Government will deliver the project, not just talk about it.</para></quote>
<para>What do we find in the budget papers? As I say, I haven't had oodles of time to go through them. But I say to the people of Queensland: if a Labor federal government says 'reprofiling', be very, very concerned about your infrastructure project, because 'reprofiling' means your infrastructure funding is being pushed out to the never-never. That's what 'reprofiling' means. So, it's not a good thing. If the Albanese government talks about reprofiling an infrastructure project, that isn't good news for your project; it's bad news, and bad news for Queensland. Let me go to budget paper 1, on page 7:</para>
<quote><para class="block">$22.0 billion in spending reductions or reprioritisations, including $6.5 billion in savings from reprofiling—</para></quote>
<para>there's that word—</para>
<quote><para class="block">infrastructure projects to better align investments with industry and market conditions.</para></quote>
<para>Those infrastructure projects are being reprofiled for our benefit! The people of Rockhampton might not realise that, but the Albanese government is reprofiling their ring road for the benefit of the people of Rockhampton; that's what page 7 of budget paper 1 says.</para>
<para>Going to budget paper 2, as I sought more detail with respect to how this reprofiling was going to work, this is what I found on page 161:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The Government will re-profile $6.5 billion of funding for existing projects within the <inline font-style="italic">Infrastructure Investment Program</inline> to beyond the forward estimates, to better align the investment with construction market conditions.</para></quote>
<para>Bear in mind, this reprofiling is apparently for the benefit of the good people of Queensland. They won't see their infrastructure in the next few years, but it's being reprofiled—don't worry about that! We're reprofiling, to better align investment with construction market conditions. That's page 161 of budget paper 2.</para>
<para>Then we go to the regional ministerial budget statement, and what do we see there? On page 179, not only is it reprofiling; it's a new approach! It says:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian government is continuing its investment in road and rail infrastructure projects to support regional development. The 2022-23 budget reflects a new approach to infrastructure investment that responds to market capacity constraints, creating a more sustainable infrastructure pipeline while continuing to support priorities for communities.</para></quote>
<para>We're reprofiling—there you go; it's all for our benefit!</para>
<para>But how does this reprofiling respond in terms of, say, a project in Victoria, where the Labor government is seeking election in the near future? Well, you see, the reprofiling doesn't apply to Labor projects in Victoria, presumably because it doesn't sit with the profile of the electoral cycle for Premier Dan Andrews and the Labor Party in Victoria. Again, I go to the transcript of Minister King's doorstep interview, in relation to the suburban rail loop in the northern suburbs of Melbourne:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Of course, our commitment is $2 billion to the early works of the first component of that, it will still go to Infrastructure Australia as an overall project for assessment.</para></quote>
<para>So, we're going to contribute millions and millions and millions of dollars of taxpayer funds to the early works for a project that hasn't been assessed by Infrastructure Australia? I'll read that again:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Of course, our commitment is $2 billion to the early works of the first component of that, it will still go to Infrastructure Australia as an overall project for assessment.</para></quote>
<para>Shouldn't you actually assess the project before you invest in it?</para>
<para>I suggest that maybe there could be another use of the word 'reprofiling', which is to direct the investment to projects that have already been assessed, which have already been committed to, which the community's already expecting, and which many local regional suppliers have made capital investment in relation to, to gear up for the construction of those projects and to reprofile funds from infrastructure projects in Labor Victoria to Queensland, where the community has a very, very legitimate expectation in relation to the building and construction of those projects.</para>
<para>Again, I'll read the words from now Prime Minister Albanese in relation to Rockhampton. This is what he said in relation to the coalition, on 24 September 2018: 'The people and businesses of Rockhampton deserve certainty.' That's what he said in 2018. In 2019 he said, 'A Shorten Labor government will deliver the project, not just talk about it.' And what does his government say in—</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SCARR</name>
    <name.id>282997</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>That's how long ago it was, Senator Ciccone. That's how long ago it was. He was making commitments way back then. Now his own minister, Minister King, in relation to the same project which has committed funding, says, 'We're going to reprofile the project.' That is not good news for the people of Queensland, that is not good news for the people of Rockhampton and that is not good news for regional Australia. They deserve better from this Albanese government.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Climate Change</title>
          <page.no>77</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>21:15</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CICCONE</name>
    <name.id>281503</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>This evening it gives me great pleasure to be speaking about the much-anticipated UN climate change conference being held in Egypt, better known as COP27. We know that tackling climate change requires international cooperation. The Albanese Labor government's commitment to reducing our carbon emissions gives us a legitimate seat at the table at these multinational and multilateral forums. We are fortunate to have some great Australian representatives at COP27, including the National Farmers' Federation and the Australian Forest Products Association, who will promote climate-smart farming with forestry at the conference.</para>
<para>The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, the IPCC, has highlighted that many of our responses to climate change can be applied without competing for land, which is often a source of tension when we are talking about climate change solutions. The IPCC highlights that sustainable forest management is one of these solutions. This does not require new land use. We know that trees store carbon, and so the process of using timber products from sustainably managed forests for construction and other industries stores carbon both in our infrastructure and in the trees that we regrow after they are harvested.</para>
<para>The Australian forestry industry is a world leader in sustainable timber production, and this should be a wake-up call to some climate change activists that the forestry industry is an important part of, and an important ally to, our fight against climate change. Indeed, one of the most damning things that we could do is reduce forestry activity here in Australia. Rather than protect the environment, this would increase pollution and habitat loss as timber products would be sourced from far less sustainable forest industries in other countries.</para>
<para>The Forests and Climate Leaders' Partnership, established recently at the United Nations General Assembly, also highlighted that, when we are looking at land use for climate change solutions, afforestation has to be part of that conversation. Afforestation is the process of growing a new forest on land that previously had no trees. This approach reflects both growing demand for timber products and the fact that as forests grow they naturally remove carbon from the atmosphere and store it in their trees. The UN's Forests and Climate Leaders' Partnership clearly stated that, if the international community is going to meet its climate targets, there needs to be an expansion of the forest estate across the globe.</para>
<para>We cannot ignore this here in Australia. I've spoken in the Senate several times on this subject. I recently went out to Hayfield in Gippsland in my home state of Victoria to visit Australian Sustainable Hardwoods, better known as ASH, with our Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, Murray Watt, and the local MP, Darren Chester. I've had the pleasure of visiting ASH many times. It is exactly the sort of regional business that we want to see succeed in the modern Australian economy, making a positive contribution in the fight against climate change; creating good, secure union jobs; training people on site; and giving back to the local community.</para>
<para>We could see these reports from the IPCC and the Forest and Climate Leaders' Partnership as a clear signal that Australia is in a strong position to seize opportunities in forestry, and, in doing so, fight climate change and create well-paying jobs. I'm sure we will see this highlighted by the NFF and AFPA at COP 27.</para>
<para>Earlier in the week, the NFF CEO, Tony Mahar, said that adding trees at the right scale and location to primary farm enterprises can be a climate solution that ticks many boxes, and he is right. This has the potential to improve biodiversity and help solve Australia's timber supply crisis. By ensuring that more of the timber we use comes from our own sustainable forestry industry, we can ensure that our homes and infrastructure are storing carbon and we can encourage the planting of more forests. Importantly, we're also ensuring that this economic activity is supporting good Australian jobs.</para>
<para>I think it's an important theme that's emerging here from these international forums and reports. It's what I've been hearing directly from both farmers and those in industry, and the many workers. Agriculture and forestry are essential to reducing our emissions, and these industries must be seen as allies, not adversaries, in our fight against climate change. For too long the politics of those on the left and those on the right have tried to argue that the interests of farmers and workers are not compatible when we try to take action on climate change. But these kinds of arguments just don't stack up, and they place a very narrow view and political interests above the interests of working Australians and regional communities. Pitting workers, farmers and environmentalists against one another, and regional communities against cities, might get a few reactions on social media, dare I say it, or a lot of cheers at a party conference, but doesn't actually achieve a lot at the end of the day.</para>
<para>The task of a responsible government is to bring Australians together to confront these challenges that we all face. Indeed, this is the approach of the Albanese Labor government. Unlike those opposite, and all those on the left, we are focused on bringing people together and solving problems—not blaming one group or blaming others for not achieving what they promised to do. We don't forget the one billion trees that the coalition promised at the last election and the election before that. But they did not plant one single tree. We know that the approach Australians want is for their leaders to work together. After almost a decade of division by those opposite, the Australian people are tired of being told that the problems are just far too hard to solve. We know there is more division in the coalition party room than there is in our society.</para>
<para>The vast majority of Australians want us to stop playing politics and to start solving our climate change problems. That's why it's so encouraging to see representatives from the Australian agriculture and forestry sectors working together and putting forward innovative approaches on the world stage. These are approaches for reducing emissions while providing opportunities to many, many people. And we are here and listening to similar approaches from environmental groups. For instance: Landcare Australia is building capacity to support farmers to participate in the carbon market, with a view to aligning projects with the biodiversity market that the Albanese government announced plans to develop earlier this year.</para>
<para>We can see that Australians are ready to step up, to work together to tackle climate change and to seize on those opportunities. After almost a decade of wasted opportunities and failed energy policies, they finally have a government that will bring people together to solve these big problems. I want to wish all the Australian delegates at COP27 all the very best as they hold their heads up high, now that Australia has a government that takes climate change seriously and is committed to working with the international community to lower emissions.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Ukraine</title>
          <page.no>79</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:23</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RENNICK</name>
    <name.id>283596</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>If the carnage and human tragedy of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars have taught us anything, it's that everyday people are made to suffer at the hands of elites who lack the empathy to understand the true horror of war. Rather than learn from the failure of the Middle East occupations, it seems we are doomed to repeat them.</para>
<para>The origins of the war in Ukraine didn't start this year but in late 2013, with the decision by the then Ukrainian President, Viktor Yanukovych, to suspend an association agreement with the EU. As stated by Yanukovych, parts of the EU deal were inadequate, and Ukraine did not have the money to upgrade to European standards. To quote an MP from the Party of Regions, the governing party:</para>
<quote><para class="block">If we had signed, we would have opened our borders and killed our own manufacturers.</para></quote>
<para>The decision to delay this decision led to riots and the eventual overthrow of the democratically elected president in the early months of 2014. The Party of Regions represented Ukrainians from eastern Ukraine, where significant manufacturing took place. It was quite within the governing party's right to act in the best interests of their constituents. This, however, wasn't enough for the antigovernment protesters, who spent the next four months protesting outside the Ukrainian parliament. The protests turned violent, and many members of the governing party fled the capital and even the country.</para>
<para>Liberal democracies should change via the ballot box and not by a small minority of protesters. What was particularly concerning about the overthrow was that it was supported by the then US administration under Barack Obama. Indeed, a leaked phone call between Victoria Nuland, the Assistant Secretary of State, and the US ambassador to Ukraine, Geoffrey Pyatt, revealed US officials discussing who should move into the new administration. John Kerry also held meetings with the soon-to-be-installed president in the month prior to the overthrow. After the overthrow Nuland was filmed at a dinner sponsored by Chevron, boasting about spending $5 billion to promote democracy, misinformation if ever I heard it. Rather than promote democracy, she was aiding and overthrowing it.</para>
<para>How can the West pretend to support democracy when it engages in activities like this? How can the West pretend to uphold good government when, just months after installing a new regime, Hunter Biden, the son of the then vice-president, now president, was employed by a Ukrainian oil company, even though he couldn't speak Ukrainian and had never worked in the oil industry. The first action of the incoming regime was to overthrow the law that allowed the use of Russian, Hungarian, Romanian and Moldovan languages in courts, schools and other government institutions in cities and provinces where minorities exceeded 10 per cent—so much for free speech and diversity. However, these actions were just the start of what was to become a brutal civil war between pro-Russian forces in the east and pro-nationalists in western Ukraine. It is estimated that over 14,000 people died in the eight-year war. The BBC has reported that Russian-speaking Ukrainians were even beheaded. Most casualties have been incurred by the Russian-speaking Ukrainians. Is it any wonder that many of the Russian-speaking minority in eastern Ukraine want autonomy, when their own party was overthrown with the help of the US government and then persecuted by the installed regime?</para>
<para>An often overlooked aspect of the question as to whether or not Ukraine should join the EU is the fact that no-one has asked Europeans whether or not they want Ukraine to be a part of Europe. The one exception to this was a Dutch referendum on an association agreement with Ukraine, held in late 2016, where they voted again Ukraine joining the EU, 62 per cent to 38 per cent. Before the elites try to move any more pieces on the chessboard of Europe, the technocrats and politicians should ask the Europeans what they want via a referendum, rather than orchestrating a violent coup. To do otherwise is to override democracy. This conflict is not aimed at upholding freedom or democracy; it's about protecting the interests of the elites. Multinationals will get access to Ukrainian markets, while the EU taxpayer picks up the tab for developing Ukraine. At the same time, Western oil companies cut Russian energy supplies out of the European market.</para>
<para>These measures will push Russia and its resources into China's orbit. How is providing cheap energy for China, while increasing the price of energy to Europeans, in the interests of the West? The Chinese mustn't be able to believe their luck at the stupidity of the Biden-NATO administration in undermining European security. What about the Monroe Doctrine? No-one would think it's okay for the Russian government to interfere in Canadian politics or for the Chinese to interfere in Mexico. The US quite rightly vigorously opposed Russia putting missiles in Cuba back in the sixties.</para>
<para>Furthermore, we need to look at the sabotage of the Nord Stream pipeline. Like the origins of coronavirus or vaccine injuries, it has next to no media coverage. One would think that an act of international sabotage on private property in international waters would warrant further attention. Surely radar activity could reveal who was in the area at the time of the attack? Why doesn't the media pursue this issue? The warmongers will immediately run from the chamber screaming that I am pro Putin. This is not true. This is about being pro peace, pro democracy and anti corruption. The Russian invasion was unjustified, just as the initial coup by the US was unjustified. The mainstream media propaganda blanket has been laid on so thick regarding the Ukraine war that only continual escalation is acceptable. Public calls for de-escalation and detente are met with accusations of Kremlin loyalty. This is unsustainable.</para>
<para>America's greatest strengths are its people and its political process. Two of its biggest political commentators, Joe Rogan and Tucker Carlson, are both anti war in Ukraine. What does that tell you about the will of the American people? They do not want to get entrapped in a war that has nothing to do with them. The American system of government was formed by patriots, people who opposed foreign oppression and the unelected ruling class and instead sought to protect the liberties of the individual. There is no greater manifestation of the Enlightenment period than the American Revolution. Unfortunately, despite the warnings of Eisenhower and the efforts of Kennedy, the elites have infiltrated the centre of power in the US, Washington, DC, and turned it into a swamp that desperately needs to be drained. The founding fathers must be turning in their graves.</para>
<para>The only way out of this bloodshed is for the eastern provinces of Ukraine to be given the choice of self-determination. In 2010, the International Court of Justice concluded that the declaration of independence of Kosovo, adopted on 17 February 2008, did not violate international law. This decision was backed by western countries. The provinces in eastern Ukraine should be given the same rights, subject to a vote. Australia backed East Timor's right to self-determination in 1999. We should not forget Northern Ireland's wish to remain part of the United Kingdom. Provided that voting is conducted fairly, then surely a democratic outcome in Ukraine is better than continuing the bloodshed, is it not? The only people who are suffering here are the Ukrainians. The escalation needs to end. It is time to use diplomacy, not weapons. In the words of Ronald Reagan when he started a detente with the Soviet Union in 1984: 'We seek genuine cooperation. We seek progress for peace. Cooperation begins with communication.'</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Budget</title>
          <page.no>80</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>21:31</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RICE</name>
    <name.id>155410</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>What is the point of Labor? I've just watched Treasurer Jim Chalmers and Labor deliver a budget that gives billionaires and politicians a $9,000 tax cut per year but does absolutely nothing to lift payments for the millions of people struggling to survive on income support. Poverty is a political choice. In this budget, Labor has chosen to give tax cuts to the wealthy, which will cost the bottom line $254 billion over the next 10 years, and do nothing for the 21 per cent of Australian households who have experienced severe food insecurity in the past 12 months. There is nothing fair and progressive about people running out of food because they can't afford to eat. We live in one of the wealthiest countries in the world, yet this budget has not delivered for the millions of Australians on income support who are struggling to pay for skyrocketing costs of food, rent and power bills. The budget papers tell us that rents are expected to go up sharply and that electricity prices are expected to go up by 51 per cent, yet there is no real increase in the budget for people who are already finding it impossible to get by.</para>
<para>I recently spoke to one person struggling to survive on the disability support pension. They told me:</para>
<quote><para class="block">I live every day in terror of becoming homeless. I frequently eat only once per day because that's all I can afford. I'm on a 'medical' support payment yet can't afford the medical services I need to help me function. I can afford basic bills but few treats. I haven't purchased new clothes in over two years, own only one pair of shoes, had to beg for assistance to fix my car, and live concerned about things breaking down and being unable to afford replacements for example my fridge or washing machine Living in poverty is terrifying. And frustrating. … I have developed physical health concerns due to the stress.</para></quote>
<para>Affordable housing just doesn't exist except for an increasingly tiny lucky few, and this budget actually makes the situation worse. There's froth and bubble in the budget about a million new homes, but, once you cut through the fluff, it turns out that the government is funding—wait for it!—the grand total of 40,000 affordable homes over the next five years, which means a shortfall of over half a million homes. And the number of people on waiting lists for public and social housing is actually going to increase over the next five years, not decrease. The terror of becoming homeless and the awful reality of being homeless will increase alongside it.</para>
<para>Reducing the cost of PBS medicine sounds great, but there's a sting. The budget reduces the price of prescription medicines for general patients but for concession card holders the cost of a script is actually going to go up, from $6.80 to $7.30, because of inflation.</para>
<para>It doesn't have to be this way. If this had been a Greens budget, it would have included a liveable income guarantee, ensuring that support was there for everyone who needed it. We would raise the rates of all income support payments to above the poverty line to $88 a day, abolish all parts of our income support system that punish people for being poor and return the provision of employment services to the Commonwealth. This would be complemented by the provision of universal social services—free child care, dental care covered by Medicare, and aged-care services available in regional towns.</para>
<para>We know that lifting people out of poverty can be done. We know that because, during the pandemic, we saw that the government briefly lifted JobSeeker above the poverty line and abolished all mutual obligations. During this time, people on income support were able to meet their basic needs and their mental and physical health improved. I've heard countless stories from people about the huge impact the COVID supplement had on their lives. One person told me:</para>
<quote><para class="block">... the income support over COVID meant that I could access the tests I needed, I was diagnosed and went through surgery in late 2020. Since then I have been able to finish my degree, get a job in my field and resume paying tax ..</para></quote>
<para>Last week, we held the first hearing of the Senate Community Affairs References Committee inquiry into the extent and nature of poverty in Australia. During the hearing, we heard from many community organisations and individuals who called for a permanent raise to the rate of income support. During the hearing, the Victorian Council of Social Service said: 'We find it unfathomable that we have a federal government that is contemplating stage 3 tax cuts and not contemplating lifting the rate of JobSeeker. After the last 2½ years, if that's not time to change some of the key decisions and lift people out of poverty, I don't know what is.' I couldn't agree more. Yet this budget has failed to deliver. What is the point of Labor? It's time Labor actually listened to the Greens, to advocacy groups, to academics and, importantly, to the millions living on income support. It is time to raise all income support payments above the poverty line and fix our broken social security system.</para>
<para>I would like to finish by sharing a statement from Andrew. I met Andrew a few weeks ago at an event with the Anti-Poverty Network SA. Andrew told me how, despite having a disease that restricts his ability to work, he's unable to access the disability support pension and he's forced to survive on the meagre JobSeeker payment. This is Andrew's story, in his own words:</para>
<quote><para class="block">I have Osteoarthritis in my right hip, due to having Perthes Disease as a child. Perthes Disease is a rare disease that affects the blood flow to the hip joint. The cause is unknown. It affects approximately 1 in 10,000 children.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It is common to develop Osteoarthritis later in life, around the mid 40's, which is exactly what happened to me. The pain gradually gets worse over time, affecting my normal day to day activities, my sleep, and my ability to perform physical tasks. I develop pain if I walk for more than 1 hour, so the weekly grocery shop is a challenge.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I have applied for similar positions in the role I was qualified for, and had years of experience -Automotive Parts Interpreting. I have not been successful. I have applied for hundreds of jobs in other fields, bearing in mind that I have to as part of my Mutual Obligations, and also bearing in mind if I can physically do the job.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I'm onto my 8th or 9th DES Provider. None of them have helped me get suitable employment. Many have no idea of what Perthes Disease is, or how it affects me. There is no point getting me a job where I have to stand for any length of time. In addition to this, once I inform potential employers that I have a pre existing medical issue, I'm immediately told I'm not suitable.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I also have to live with the constant stress around not having enough money to live on.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The cost of living increases mean that the limited income I get simply does not go as far as it used to.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">.. I'm so sick of people criticising the unemployed, saying we're lazy, there's lots of jobs out there. They don't know people's circumstances, and they're often the same people that reject us when we apply for jobs.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The current level of Income Support is inadequate. I do not expect to live a life of luxury, all I want is to have enough to have a basic standard of living, and not be worried about money 24/7. I cannot afford treatments to help manage my pain. Simple things such as buying a new mattress, which might help me to sleep better are currently not affordable. My mental health is terrible, I see no way out of this. The simple solution would be to get a job, but that seems impossible, given my ongoing medical issues. The eligibility criteria for the Disability Support Pension has locked people out of it that need it. There are thousands of people like me who are unlikely to work ever again, what are we supposed to do? We can't survive on the JobSeeker Allowance for the rest of our lives! I expect my health will worsen over time, eventually I'll be unable to walk, will the Government still expect me to look for work then?</para></quote>
<para>This budget has delivered nothing to improve Andrew's life. My heart breaks for him and for all other Australians forced to live in such circumstances. Andrew and everyone else surviving on income support: rest assured that I hear you. The Greens hear you. You are not forgotten. We will keep campaigning for you. We will keep campaigning and doing everything we can until justice is done and you have enough to live on to live a decent life.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>COVID-19</title>
          <page.no>82</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>21:41</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ROBERTS</name>
    <name.id>266524</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>As a servant to the people of Queensland and Australia, I note that at the European parliament inquiry into COVID two weeks ago, Janine Small, the President of International Developed Markets for Pfizer revealed that the Pfizer vaccine injection was never tested to see if it would prevent transmission—never tested. Small went on to say this was because Pfizer had to work at the speed of science. Well, it seems the speed of science and the velocity of money are the same thing. Shameful decisions were taken deliberately to facilitate big pharma getting their injections to market in time. The mouthpiece media have the same large investment funds on their share register as big pharma. It's no surprise the mouthpiece media amplified the COVID scare, doubling down on fear porn and demonising anyone who clung to 'my body, my choice', just so the media's shareholders could line their pockets with tens of billions of dollars in windfall profits.</para>
<para>I remember when the political left walked behind banners reading 'my body, my choice'. Now real conservatives hold those banners high while the Left abuse us. How fast the Left abandon their principles when an opportunity to tell people what to do comes along, to control people. It was clear after just four months of COVID the scary Chinese videos of people dropping dead in the streets should not have been taken at face value. Measures taken out of an abundance of caution in March 2020 should have been re-examined just a few months later, as we requested and suggested. They never were. At the time, the data clearly showed COVID was no more deadly than a severe flu and well under anything the public would consider to be a pandemic. Let me support that statement.</para>
<para>The following data is from the Australian Bureau of Statistics published in part as a result of a One Nation document discovery a few weeks ago. In 2019, the year before COVID, the seasonal flu cost 4,126 lives. The next year, in 2020, Australia recorded 882 deaths from COVID and 2,287 deaths from the flu for a total of 3,196 deaths, 1,000 less than before COVID, almost a thousand less than the flu alone killed the previous year. In 2021, 1,137 deaths were recorded from COVID and 2,073 from the flu, for a total of 3,210. This means deaths from the flu including COVID across the first two years of the so-called pandemic were right on the long-term average of 3,255. There was nothing unusual about the Australian death rate in 2020 or 2021 yet the COVID substances—I won't call them vaccines—the COVID injections, were given emergency approval. The only thing about our death rate in 2020 that was unusual was that it was at a seven-year low. These are facts. This makes a joke of provisional approval granted for injections out of urgency. There was no urgency. It is not just the vaccines that were inappropriately approved; dangerous drugs like the antiviral Remdesivir were waved through using the same false urgency. Remdesivir's side effects include respiratory failure and organ failure. The perfectly safe but out-of-patent antiviral ivermectin was banned to make way for remdesivir—banned, proven, banned. The UK has recently put ivermectin back into use. We must as well. The conclusion an increasing number of Australians are coming to is that our health technocrats tore up our tried and true health systems to shift products for their mates in the pharmaceutical industry, and now people are dying from those same products.</para>
<para>Once the injection rollout started, there was a spike in deaths. It must be noted correlation is not causation. The link between the cause—vaccines—and the effect—death, injury and suffering—must be proven. Well, it has now been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt. At my second COVID Under Question inquiry in August, many highly-qualified medical professionals from around the world established that link, providing evidence the injections were responsible for many more deaths than the health technocrats admit.</para>
<para>Late last month, the <inline font-style="italic">Clinical and </inline><inline font-style="italic">E</inline><inline font-style="italic">xperimental Immunology</inline> journal published an article entitled 'COVID-19 vaccines—an Australian review'. The authors are Conny Turni and Astrid Lefringhausen, from the University of Queensland. This article details the medical science behind the wide range of medical harms inflicted on Australians as a result of the hubris and the criminal negligence of health technocrats. I promised to hound you people down, and now science has done that for me. The issue of vaccine harm must be referred to a royal commission today. These criminals must be brought to justice. This report is reproduced on my website, and anyone who reads this report and still defends the fake vaccines is as guilty as the companies that made it.</para>
<para>It's no surprise that COVID has spiked in correlation with the rollout of the fake vaccines. ABS data is not yet available for 2022, although Australian actuarial data is. In the first four months of 2022, death from all respiratory diseases—the flu, pneumonia and COVID taken together—is still at normal levels, yet deaths from cardiac and pulmonary events are up 11 per cent, and unexplained deaths are up 13 per cent. At this rate, an extra 10,000 Australians will die in 2022. Anyone reading the journal article I referred to will know exactly why this is happening. I refuse to believe our health technocrats do not know. A royal commission must ask what they knew and when.</para>
<para>In May 2020 I criticised fear-driven response to COVID in the Senate, within months of this mismanagement of COVID. At that time Senator Hanson and I were the lone voices of dissent in the Senate, and Craig Kelly and George Christensen were the lone voices in the other place, and Senators Rennick and Antic joined us—six representatives out of 227 people. Everyone else in both houses displayed an ignorance of proper scientific process, an inability to read empirical data and a misplaced trust of health bureaucrats. Health technocrats have spent their entire professional lives working closely with the pharmaceutical industry. And we expected them to be impartial. Come on! We delegated authority to the last people who should have been trusted with that authority.</para>
<para>The Senate is the house of review. Every aspect of our COVID response should have been scrutinised to the last detail. The Senate failed in that mission. COVID measures were beyond question, and it seems they still are. Rather than review, the Senate covered up. Senators Rennick and Antic, in company with myself and Senator Hanson, tried to draw out the truth and were demonised for doing so. Not one senator amongst the political Left entertained a moment's thought that fear-driven response could be harming more people than it helped. 'Resistance is futile' was the message repeated at every press conference on every television in every house of parliament. New Zealand, Canada, the UK and America all joined in the circus of despair, designed to scare people into taking a substance they knew would cause serious harm and death.</para>
<para>Even today, vaccine mandates are still in place around Australia. The reality of a falling birth rate, unexplained increases in deaths and more than 130,000 cases of vaccine harm here in Australia is being ignored. Still, we are told the injection is safe and effective. Safe and effective is not one lie; it is two lies. The vaccine is neither safe nor effective. Medical practitioners who stood up for the rights of their patients were deregistered after action from big pharma's enforcement arm, the Australian Health Practitioner Regulation Agency—under the direction, it seems, of CEO Martin Fletcher and Yvette D'Ath, as chair of the Health Ministers Meeting. They're the ones who were in control. These technocrats decided they knew what was best for patients—better than the patient's own doctor. AHPRA must be referred to the royal commission—and the TGA, ATAGI, the Chief Medical Officer, the secretary of the federal health department and Greg Hunt, the federal health minister at the time.</para>
<para>The vaccine emergency use authorisation expires early next year. An inquiry into how the vaccines went would normally be conducted, but they need to stop now. The emergency authorisation needs to stop. I do not have confidence the Therapeutic Goods Administration, the TGA, and the Australian Technical Advisory Group on Immunisation, ATAGI, will be honest and impartial in this inquiry. They have not been so far. Only a royal commission can decide all of the issues I have raised tonight. One royal commissioner will not be enough for the litany of legal and regulatory abuse, medical practice, financial malfeasance, conflict of interest, child abuse, human rights abuse and the shredding of international agreements Australia has endured for 2½ years.</para>
<para>The harm from our COVID response was foreseeable and preventable. If only the Senate, the ultimate house of review, had had the courage to stand up and call bullshit. The Senate did not.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>264449</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! Senator Roberts, that language isn't parliamentary. I ask that you withdraw or find another word.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ROBERTS</name>
    <name.id>266524</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I retract that—the brown stuff.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>264449</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ROBERTS</name>
    <name.id>266524</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The Senate did not. As a result, the public has lost confidence in the medical profession, health administration and politicians. To his credit, member of parliament Dan Tehan publicly admitted his silence last year was wrong. This week a survey in the <inline font-style="italic">Daily Telegraph</inline> found that, based on the 50,000 respondents, 37 per cent of Australians who took the vaccine regret it. Only 43 per cent said they would do it again. The damage to the reputation of our once-trusted medical institutions can only be repaired with a royal commission to unravel the lies and get to the truth, and, in so doing, ensure this tyranny, this suffering and this loss of life never happens again.</para>
<para>I have no doubt that, when the truth comes to light, history will judge those in this place as being cowards all. We have one flag, we are one community, we are one nation, and Australians want justice.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Myanmar, Standards in Sport: Australian Football League</title>
          <page.no>83</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>21:51</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FAWCETT</name>
    <name.id>DYU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The media has been full recently, and for good reason, of the conflict in Ukraine, with Russia's illegal and unjustifiable invasion of its neighbour. We have seen the pushback by Ukrainian forces—and people welcome that—and the counterattacks they have conducted. But it's important to remember that that is not the only place where these kinds of actions are occurring.</para>
<para>In our region, Myanmar is facing a very similar situation, where the civilian population is being oppressed by its own military. The military had a coup to get rid of a democratically elected government—who, in fact, won in a landslide—and the military have sought to entrench their own power and to eliminate any dissent to that. Despite that—despite the overwhelming military force which is being applied—the National Unity Government and the ethnic armed forces, which have fought for some years in Myanmar, have actually made good progress in holding their own. The Special Advisory Council for Myanmar, an independent group of former United Nations human rights experts, estimate that the National Unity Government and the resistance organisations now have effective control over some 52 per cent of Myanmar's territory. They've said that the Myanmar military can claim to have stable control over only about 17 per cent.</para>
<para>So, on the one hand, we should be celebrating that, because that's actually a fantastic outcome for a civilian population supported by some of the ethnic armed groups. But the reality on the ground for people is still stark. The Special Advisory Council note that the regime, which is unable to govern in the majority of the country, is reduced to being an occupying military force. What does that mean for people? It means that it has stepped up its atrocities, including arbitrary torture and killing of civilians, massacres, burning people alive, extrajudicial killing of resistance detainees and using civilians as human shields, as well as air and artillery strikes on residential areas, looting and burning of houses, and acts of sexual violence.</para>
<para>Just in the last week, we have seen the decapitation of a teacher in one of the areas held by NUG forces, where the military can interdict and have air strikes and send forces in to act and then withdraw. We've seen that. We've recently seen seven young students killed in a helicopter attack in a Buddhist monastery. The UN has documented some 260 attacks on schools and educational personnel, according to the UN Human Rights Committee. Just in the last week, a Myanmar military air attack killed 80 people at a celebration—predominantly civilians, musicians and people associated with one of the political groups there.</para>
<para>So there is a pattern of behaviour, and what we see in summary is that, to date, some 2,356 civilians have been executed extrajudicially by the regime, 91 of those being under the age of 14 and a further 209 being between the ages of 15 and 19. Some 12,655 have been illegally arrested, and four democracy activists, including a member of parliament, were given capital punishment and executed in July. Some 1.3 million people have been displaced and, because of the regime's interdiction and control of World Food Programme and other aid which tries to get over the borders, many of those people are facing starvation. The UN special rapporteur on human rights in Myanmar stresses that there are human rights abuses and war crimes being conducted on a daily basis.</para>
<para>So there are several requests. The first is that the government look to continue allowing those people from Myanmar who are in Australia to remain but also look at how we can increase the opportunity for people who are sheltering in third countries, like Thailand or Mizoram state, to come to Australia until their country is safe to return to. Second, with things like the ASEAN Military Medicine Conference, which it appears the regime's military are going attend at this stage, ASEAN should take the step of saying that they will not accept anyone from the regime attending those sorts of conferences. Third, the junta is talking of having an election in August 2023 and is putting that forward as a way to end the conflict and gain some legitimacy. But that would entrench the military under the old 2008 constitution, whereas the democratically elected National Unity Government and the ethnic groups have developed a federal democracy charter, and the international community should be clearly recognising that any election must be under that charter.</para>
<para>I wish also to cover quickly some areas here in Australia where abandoning the rule of law and crushing dissent also occur. People would have seen in the media recently the saga of Andrew Thorburn and Essendon, and I want to quickly cover the legality and principle issues of this. Most people will know the story. Thorburn was forced to resign very quickly, within two days, and, in his own words, it became clear to him that his personal Christian faith was 'not tolerated or permitted in the public square, at least by some and perhaps by many'. This wasn't on the basis of his personal words or actions; it was because of an association with an Anglican church. Some media reports are saying that the church had controversial views.</para>
<para>The majority of mainstream churches and, I would argue, many mosques and temples are pro life. They believe we should protect the unborn and they believe in the traditional view of marriage and concepts of gender. That is actually quite mainstream around the world, and here in Australia it was perfectly legal to hold those views—in fact, under law, it's still legal to hold those views—yet the Premier of Victoria said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Those views are absolutely appalling, I don't support those views, that kind of intolerance, that kind of hatred, bigotry. It's just wrong.</para></quote>
<para>Were Essendon's actions legal? Australia is a signatory to the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, which comes from the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, and it makes it unlawful to discriminate against people in a range of clauses.</para>
<para>Legal experts have highlighted that it's unlawful to discriminate against a person not only because of their religious belief under the Victorian Equal Opportunity Act 2010 but also because of their personal association with, for example, a church under section 6 of the act. It's not a defence to say that Mr Thorburn agreed to step down. An ultimatum from the club to do so would amount to a constructive dismissal, and a person cannot consent to discrimination against them. So there are, even in our law, legal barriers to what actions Essendon and other groups who have a similar view take. That's because Australia has signed up to international obligations, such as the ICCPR.</para>
<para>Under article 2 we undertake to respect and to ensure to all individuals the rights of the country without distinction, such as race, colour et cetera, including religion. Article 18 says: 'Everyone shall have the freedom of thought, conscience and religion.' This includes the 'freedom to have or adopt the religion or belief of their choice individually or in community'. Article 19 says: 'Everyone shall have the right to hold opinions without interference.' Article 22 says everyone shall have the right to the freedom of association with others. Article 27, which perhaps is relevant after the last census, says, 'In those States in which ethnic, religious or linguistic minorities exist,' which you could now classify the Christian church as, members of such minorities shall not be denied the right, in community with other members, to enjoy their own culture, to profess and practise their own religion.</para>
<para>So, the principle: why should we care? We should care because it's the basis of an open, plural society for these freedoms to exist. In fact, Justices Mason and Brennan of the Australian High Court said that religious freedom is actually the paradigm freedom; the essence of a free society. It's important also to recognise that the things we value in our open and plural society, such as these freedoms, actually have their roots in Christianity, in the church. The American philosopher Larry Siedentop presents very cogent arguments and is one of many who identifies that the roots of liberalism and the belief in individual freedom were actually pioneered by the Christian thinkers of the Middle Ages. It was the philosophers and canon lawyers from the church—not the Renaissance humanists—who laid the foundation for liberal democracy in the West. We should continue to value that if we want an open and free society.</para>
<para>Senate adjourned at 22 : 01</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
  </chamber.xscript>
</hansard>